1
00:00:19,279 --> 00:00:24,640
Good luck.
>> Yeah. Are you guys set?

2
00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:28,880
» All right. Going to call the meeting to
order. Thank you everyone for coming

3
00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:35,200
out. Uh, first thing on the agenda is
approval of our meeting in August.

4
00:00:32,480 --> 00:00:39,200
Any corrections, concerns?
>> I'm good.

5
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:43,120
» I have none.
>> Get a motion to approve.

6
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,800
» One second.
>> Okay. So, Andy made it. Alex second. All

7
00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:52,239
in favor?
>> I opposed. Motion carries. Thank you.

8
00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:56,960
All right. So, what do we got? Uh,
pending next rule here.

9
00:00:54,239 --> 00:01:01,600
» Actually, you don't between
when I prepared this and now we've

10
00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:04,920
received extensions for
these projects.

11
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:13,280
I made extension for 109 and for FO.
>> That's right.

12
00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:16,960
» Yeah. And I got one from Tim Snider for
the green top.

13
00:01:14,799 --> 00:01:22,759
» All righty.
All right. So, we'll move forward. Uh,

14
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,759
Fasco Heckler.

15
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:37,200
» Uh, good evening. I'm Brian Folk with
COC Design Group. Um, here tonight talk

16
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:43,400
about the Fusco Heckler subdivision.
Um, have a couple handouts here. May

17
00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,400
help it. I got

18
00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,840
» Thank you.

19
00:01:49,386 --> 00:01:51,406
» [laughter]

20
00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:57,640
» Yeah, that actually helps.
>> Thanks.

21
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:11,280
All right. So, um, this project is is
actually a I call it an lot annexation.

22
00:02:09,599 --> 00:02:15,760
We're just basically moving lot lines
around. There's three existing parcels

23
00:02:13,599 --> 00:02:22,800
and there's going to be three parcels
when we're finished. Um

24
00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:29,360
there there's two parcels out along uh
Forest Avenue. Um that's I'll refer to

25
00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:34,720
the green parcel, that's the Fusco lot.
Um and then the light yellow one will be

26
00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:42,480
the Heckler lot. And then the the pink
lot I'll refer to as the Real Pro lot.

27
00:02:38,319 --> 00:02:48,800
Um so um kind of working our way around
here as you see the the the the um busco

28
00:02:45,519 --> 00:02:54,000
lot. It's existing 10 acre parcel. It
has an existing home on it with access

29
00:02:51,040 --> 00:03:00,400
out the forest. Um what we're proposing
to do is to take um a portion of the

30
00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:06,800
land and convey it to the Heckler parcel
right next door. Um that's the darker

31
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:12,080
yellow area. Um and as well as a portion
of the land in the rear which is in in

32
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:18,080
dark pink and convey that over to what
will be the real prolot in the end. Um,

33
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:24,159
so that that parcel is going to go from
10 acres to about just under six and a

34
00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:29,280
half, 6.43 acres, uh, in the end. Um,
then the Heckler lot is is the, uh,

35
00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:34,560
light yellow one. Um, that has an
existing home on it. Um, currently it's

36
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:41,280
an ex existing non-conforming lot. The
the home is located um, too close to the

37
00:03:38,159 --> 00:03:46,400
existing property line. Uh, so it's
considered an existing non-conforming

38
00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:50,239
uh, structure. Um, by conveying that
parcel over, we will eliminate that

39
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:54,159
nonconformity and and improve that
issue. Uh, so it would no longer be

40
00:03:52,319 --> 00:04:00,400
non-conforming.
Um, and then so it's going to take the

41
00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:07,080
dark yellow in and then it's going to
convey.

42
00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:07,080
» Can you point to any color?

43
00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:12,360
Oh, you got Oh, sorry. Sorry. You're
good.

44
00:04:14,239 --> 00:04:21,759
Um and then uh the pink area in the back
um of the Heckler lot is also going to

45
00:04:19,359 --> 00:04:26,800
get conveyed to the Real Pro. So that's
a 10acre lot that's going to be reduced

46
00:04:23,759 --> 00:04:30,479
down to 4.7 when it's finished. Um and
then the Real Pro lot is is not

47
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:36,240
conveying any land out. It's just
accepting parcels from both Heckler and

48
00:04:32,639 --> 00:04:40,960
Fusco. And it's originally was 15.3
acres and it's going to be a little over

49
00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:47,520
24 and a half acres when it's finished.
Um, so again, the the the intent here is

50
00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:53,680
just to move some lot lines around. Um,
the reason we're here doing this now and

51
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:59,520
not part of any other plan is there's an
contractual agreements with with the fus

52
00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:03,040
um that require us to get things moving
along and get finished and get the

53
00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:07,440
settlement by a certain date. So, we
need to move forward to to meet those

54
00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:11,919
obligations. So that's the purpose of
this um going through this process here

55
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:18,240
independent of of the full development
plans um that everybody's aware are are

56
00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:24,960
being worked on. Um we did receive a
review letter from Steve's office um

57
00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:29,840
back in June I believe it was. We did
resubmit plans. Um I don't think there

58
00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:34,240
were any issues in that from our from
our end. They were will comply. We did

59
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:38,880
not receive an updated letter letter yet
from Steve, but I don't have any uh real

60
00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:42,800
concerns that that there's anything in
there of substance. Um I'm sure Steve

61
00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:47,199
will will speak up here if he has any
concerns. Um

62
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:51,680
» I guess just to clarify,
I had a larger comment here about sewage

63
00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:56,080
planning modules. I think I saw just saw
an email from you that D has confirmed

64
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,479
that they're not going to require sewage
planning.

65
00:05:57,039 --> 00:06:02,880
» That's correct. We got an email this
morning finalizing that because there's

66
00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:07,840
existing dwellings on the properties and
there's no new development, no sewage

67
00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:13,360
planning is required.
>> Follow up on that.

68
00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:21,199
We've asked several times in the past
for some kind of master plan for sewage

69
00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:26,000
planning for the entire subdivision.
that is

70
00:06:23,199 --> 00:06:30,240
this property, the adjoining properties,
the ones out on Lawn Avenue. We just

71
00:06:28,479 --> 00:06:36,479
want to see how all of that is going to
be tied into Penridge Regional.

72
00:06:34,479 --> 00:06:41,039
» Yeah, that's I mean, again, that's not
for discussion here tonight. We're just

73
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:44,960
talking about the adjustments for these
parcels. There's no development. There's

74
00:06:42,639 --> 00:06:47,759
no proposed sewer. There's there's
nothing along

75
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:53,840
» this is
in process to getting to a much bit

76
00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:57,759
larger development
>> potentially, but I mean we're in a lot

77
00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:02,160
of discussions with the township and the
local authorities to to work all those

78
00:06:59,840 --> 00:07:06,080
details out. This is just there's three
three lots and there's going to be three

79
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:10,400
lots when we're finished. So, they
exist.

80
00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:15,120
» Is is the real pro property part of the
larger subdivision? Uh, the real pro

81
00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:17,759
will be part of that subdivision. Yes.
All right.

82
00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:21,759
» How about the heckler property?
>> Uh, no. I don't believe in the end it

83
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:27,520
will be.
>> And the real pro is partially in the

84
00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:32,319
village and partially in the RA.
Is that how I read that?

85
00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:38,240
» That's correct. The
the zoning line runs right along the

86
00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:43,039
back of that the dark red.
>> I got you.

87
00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:47,120
What is that diagonal mean?
>> What was that diagonal line from? That's

88
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:50,680
the existing track lines from well
before we were involved.

89
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:58,319
» Any problem conveying land out of RA
into the VR?

90
00:07:57,039 --> 00:08:02,560
» Not changing the zone?
>> No,

91
00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:07,520
» just moving the lot line.
>> Correct. John's correct there. The

92
00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:12,080
zoning two are the same and just
>> and what's going on with the two. So you

93
00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:15,759
got a medium yellow and you got a
lighter yellow green. What's what's

94
00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,960
going on there? Like with the whole
>> the darker yellow is just going to be

95
00:08:17,199 --> 00:08:22,639
conveyed from the fusco parcel to the
heckler. It's going to be now owned by

96
00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:26,800
Heckler. It one of the big benefits
there is it eliminates the need for the

97
00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:29,919
the the existing house on Heckler is
right up against the property line. So

98
00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:33,360
it doesn't meet the sideyard setback. So
that whole yellow is going to go to

99
00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:38,680
» correct
>> lot well lot one

100
00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,680
» that's correct

101
00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:49,440
» um one of the waivers was for
that correct

102
00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:52,959
» uh the well there's there's one waiver
request having to do with existing

103
00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:57,360
vegetation
um I guess locating trees over 6 in

104
00:08:55,839 --> 00:09:01,760
caliper or whatever similar to what we
did on the the fisher track There's no

105
00:09:00,399 --> 00:09:07,600
construction, there's no disturbance.
So, we're asking for that waiver. As far

106
00:09:03,839 --> 00:09:11,279
as road improvements go, we were um
asking for the deferral. Um

107
00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:14,000
» Okay. So, similar to what was done with
that property.

108
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,640
» I always forget,
>> but around the corner on Fisher on Mount

109
00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:21,360
» Fisher. Yes,
>> that's Fisher. The next one down

110
00:09:18,959 --> 00:09:22,480
» the treatment plant. That wasn't Fisher.
>> Fisher.

111
00:09:21,839 --> 00:09:24,399
» Yeah, that's Fisher.
>> Fisher is the pump station.

112
00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:27,200
» I'm getting
>> up on Mountain View.

113
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:31,040
» Mountain View.
>> Yep. So, similar to that one there,

114
00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:35,839
you'd be asking for a deferral or
covenant on a lot when the larger

115
00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:39,200
subdivision if and when the larger
subdivision proceeds it that will get

116
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,880
revisited.
>> Correct.

117
00:09:40,959 --> 00:09:46,160
» Yeah, understood.
>> So, I didn't list that as a waiver. I

118
00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:49,160
think it's just a deferral. I think it's
the

119
00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:55,160
» Is there any other concerns from you,
Steve?

120
00:09:57,680 --> 00:10:04,399
No, I just wanted to I I actually I have
a draft letter for the new law, but then

121
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:08,880
it became too late for this meeting, so
I didn't want to issue it and confuse

122
00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,880
what letters got distributed.
>> I figured

123
00:10:09,519 --> 00:10:14,920
» I just want to look at that quick. I
don't think there was anything on there.

124
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:24,959
No, there'll be a lot of deeds of
consolidation and whatnot that will be

125
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:28,399
by your attorney which is a confirmation
for the township.

126
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:32,680
» No, I have no other issues because
there's no construction on

127
00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:32,680
» construction.

128
00:10:32,959 --> 00:10:37,720
» All right. Any discussion for you
fellas?

129
00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:51,760
If not, uh,
any public comment on this project?

130
00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:56,160
If you have some, please come up to the
microphone.

131
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:59,440
» All right. Seeing none, we'll move
forward. Uh,

132
00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:02,480
» you want to get up, come on up. Uh, give
me your name and address when you get up

133
00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:07,440
here, please. Please speak into the
microphone.

134
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:12,480
» Harry Costic, 111 and 117 Holiday House
Road. um keep on moving these ahead,

135
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:16,640
which is fine and that's what has to be
done. But we do we get any improvements

136
00:11:14,959 --> 00:11:21,040
on the intersection up here or any
drawings that you've been asking for for

137
00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:24,959
the the main intersection where all
these developments are coming together?

138
00:11:23,519 --> 00:11:27,519
» Not that I'm aware of, but
>> Well, that's we're having a lot of

139
00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:31,200
problems with all the other
developments. Outrage Road. The

140
00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:35,040
traffic's getting so bad and and I
understand if they had the right if if

141
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:38,320
it's legally in in our code and they
have the right to build these, but we

142
00:11:36,959 --> 00:11:42,880
can't have a [clears throat] bottleneck.
We only have one one from the hospital

143
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:46,240
done and the other three aren't. So, we
really need this should be addressed,

144
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:49,279
not when everything's rearranged and
ready to go.

145
00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:52,079
» I I think that you know everything's
still in a planning stage once things

146
00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,839
get rolling.
>> Yeah. Well, you're rejocking everything

147
00:11:53,839 --> 00:11:59,360
around to make it in a planning stage to
make it bigger and make it work. So

148
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,480
anyhow, just
>> there is a point in the process where

149
00:12:00,959 --> 00:12:04,560
there has to be a traffic stud. Yeah,
we're just not to

150
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:08,320
» but they've been talking about that for
6 months a year now too,

151
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:11,279
» probably even longer. It may still be
six months from now. But

152
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:16,160
» so it's a problem and as long as it you
know as long as it's addressed that's

153
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:18,480
fine but it has to be addressed.
>> It will be addressed forever.

154
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:23,079
» Thank you.
>> Thank you. Anyone else?

155
00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:30,959
» All right thoughts from you guys. So,
you're looking for a waiver.

156
00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,959
» Yes.
>> And a deferral.

157
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:41,639
» A waiver. A deferral. And then a
recommendation on the plan. That's

158
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:41,639
» right. Any comments on the waiver.

159
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:48,959
» It makes sense.
Any any concerns with the waiver?

160
00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:53,200
» No.
>> No.

161
00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:56,720
» How about the deferral?
>> It makes sense to me as well. Yes.

162
00:12:56,183 --> 00:13:04,040
[clears throat]
>> All right. So, let's uh take a vote on

163
00:12:59,839 --> 00:13:04,040
the waiver. So, we can recommend that.

164
00:13:06,399 --> 00:13:14,880
We want to make a motion to approve the
waiver.

165
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:21,760
» Make a motion to approve the waiver for
section 365-8

166
00:13:18,079 --> 00:13:27,040
for the existing vegetation.
>> I'll second. All in favor? I opposed.

167
00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:30,399
Motion carries. All right. So, you got
your waiver. We need to vote on the

168
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:34,240
deferral as well.
>> You can make that part of your

169
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:38,560
conditions of the plan of
>> All right.

170
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:44,440
All right. So, are we [clears throat]
satisfied to make a recommendation with

171
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,440
this?

172
00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:51,160
I I don't see anything tripping us up at
this point.

173
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:07,399
So nobody has any comment. I would look
for a motion to recommend conditional

174
00:14:04,399 --> 00:14:07,399
approval.

175
00:14:11,519 --> 00:14:15,240
» I'll make said motion.

176
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:21,680
» Second.
>> We got it.

177
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:24,399
» Andy got the second. All right. All in
favor?

178
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:29,880
» I
car. [clears throat]

179
00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:29,880
» Okay. Thank you. You got it.

180
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:48,680
» All I needed was a color map. [laughter]
>> It helped.

181
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:56,160
» Yes.
All right. So, next will be Pen Valley

182
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,160
representation. Are you the
representation?

183
00:15:00,079 --> 00:15:08,959
» I'm Phil Durststein, an employee of Pen
Valley Gas. Um, representing the Bulmer

184
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:13,760
family or Bulmer Farms property. I don't
know if you had a picture up there. Um,

185
00:15:11,199 --> 00:15:18,480
we want to I didn't print out anything.
I didn't know if you had anything from

186
00:15:15,839 --> 00:15:23,600
Cynthia from Horizon Engineer.
>> Yes.

187
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:30,399
Um, we would like just to on our plot
plan, we would like to increase one of

188
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:36,240
the building sizes by 476 ft. We would
like to make an employee room onto one

189
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:41,120
of our storage buildings. And so the
area around where we're building on top

190
00:15:38,079 --> 00:15:47,839
of is already impervious surface. It's a
a stone area there uh that we don't

191
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:52,160
really use for um anything there. And so
we thought we would want to build just

192
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:57,839
an employee room there. So that's
basically what I'm just asking for.

193
00:15:54,720 --> 00:16:01,040
» So we don't have a
for

194
00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:05,360
» all right
>> on the map. It's

195
00:16:02,639 --> 00:16:07,519
» you have the the storage tanks the
>> right

196
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:12,160
» up on township line,
>> right? It's the upper part up there

197
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:16,560
where we have about three storage
buildings up there.

198
00:16:13,279 --> 00:16:21,040
» Right. Are all those buildings built?
>> They're all built. Yes. Okay.

199
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:24,560
» It says on the on the schedule given
that there's proposed storage building.

200
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,839
» I can [clears throat] explain that.
>> Okay.

201
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:32,639
» Thank you.
>> For ease of processing this application,

202
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:38,560
we chose to have them go through it as a
amended final plan. So

203
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:42,880
instead of starting the process over for
a new waiver of land development, this

204
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:46,160
goes through more steps. So some of
those things that are listed proposed

205
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:49,759
because they were proposed on the
original final plan.

206
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:52,720
» This is a 2019 plan.
>> Yeah.

207
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:58,480
» Well, no, it was even earlier than that.
>> The very first

208
00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:01,279
» 2005 is probably when it was started.
>> Yeah.

209
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:04,799
» That's when the first building went
>> and then 2015

210
00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:09,520
» 15
>> maybe. Yeah.

211
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:13,439
» And then we did one last year.
>> Right. So that's why some of the things

212
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:19,360
they proposed on it because it's
carryover from the old plan.

213
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:24,319
» So it's a little 34 by 14.
>> Yeah.

214
00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:31,440
» The I call it a lean to onto the one end
of the building, but it's Yeah. I have a

215
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:36,240
foundation under. We just find that
instead of having everybody come down to

216
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:40,320
the office, we thought we would
keep a lot of the truck drivers and

217
00:17:38,559 --> 00:17:43,320
delivery guys up top there.
>> Right.

218
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:49,679
» All right. So, it doesn't sound like
it's a major deal, right?

219
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:53,919
» No, it doesn't impact parking because
you're not talking about new employees.

220
00:17:51,039 --> 00:17:56,640
It doesn't impact storm water
>> because you're

221
00:17:54,640 --> 00:18:00,400
» sewer, water, any of that.
>> That's now on public sewer. where way

222
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:04,400
back when this started, the site was all
on on lot sewer,

223
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,840
» right? But yeah, we have public sewer
now.

224
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,480
» Public sewer
>> and we're not adding any bathrooms or

225
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,480
anything.
>> You're not put any bathrooms on the

226
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:15,520
employee room?
>> No, it's basically for like employee

227
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:18,720
boxes and for like there's computers
that they they've been doing it inside

228
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,280
the storage building,
>> right?

229
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:26,640
» It's just dirty. And so we're going to
just make it and there'll be a little

230
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:30,559
kitchenet in there.
>> All right.

231
00:18:28,559 --> 00:18:35,039
Is there so we just looking for a waiver
of land development here?

232
00:18:31,679 --> 00:18:38,720
» No, you're approving an amendment to the
final plan.

233
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:43,039
» Oh, okay.
>> All right. Um discussion with you guys.

234
00:18:41,919 --> 00:18:48,080
I think
>> is the stone that's there is that um

235
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:52,000
impervious already?
>> Yes.

236
00:18:50,559 --> 00:18:59,640
» Is it stone or is it paved?
>> It's stone. It's um modified packed.

237
00:18:55,679 --> 00:18:59,640
» That's impervious. Yeah.

238
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:05,600
» Yeah. I mean, I don't have a problem
with this.

239
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:08,559
» All right.
>> All right. Somebody want to make a

240
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,280
motion. What are we doing again?
Amending the

241
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,320
» amending the Oh, sorry.
>> Amending our plans. Yeah.

242
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:18,400
» Any public comment on this project? I'm
sorry.

243
00:19:15,919 --> 00:19:24,080
All right. See? None. So, it's an
amended. Say it again.

244
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:27,520
» Final plan. I motion that we amend the
final plan to include this break room.

245
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:31,039
» I'll second.
>> All right. All in favor?

246
00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:33,039
» I opposed. Motion carries.
>> Thank you very much.

247
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:38,000
» You got it.
>> I'm sorry. Your name again?

248
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:42,240
» Okay. Thank you.
>> I don't know. [laughter]

249
00:19:39,919 --> 00:19:48,000
» I don't want to say anything. I have to
somewhere

250
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:55,919
go back on one, I guess.
>> All right. So, next on the agenda is

251
00:19:52,320 --> 00:20:02,160
I know what it is. I hold
business. I lost my agenda.

252
00:19:59,679 --> 00:20:07,880
Never mind. Thanks. I got two. Probably
have three. All right. Old business. Uh,

253
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,880
anyone have any old business?

254
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:14,720
This question was answered before the
meeting. So, all right. So, new business

255
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:22,000
would be the uh proposed amendment to
the ordinance. uh the data center

256
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:27,360
ordinance. Um John, I know you have a
lot to talk about, but we'll take care

257
00:20:24,799 --> 00:20:33,080
of a couple things. First, um is there
anyone here from that group that put

258
00:20:29,919 --> 00:20:33,080
this together?

259
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:39,520
» I was going to thank them, but
I I will to that group. Thank you for

260
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:45,120
putting this together. The
>> video, right?

261
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:50,400
I know it probably required a lot of a
lot of work. So appreciate their

262
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:57,280
efforts. Um we did get review from Bucks
County. We got a review from our

263
00:20:53,520 --> 00:21:01,679
what are we calling Tom Kitta
planner.

264
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:08,240
Um Bucks County didn't seem to have any
issues with it. Um or planner. I wasn't

265
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:14,280
print that.
He had a couple of suggestions.

266
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,280
Um,

267
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:19,880
» you want to talk about those first? Come
on in.

268
00:21:20,559 --> 00:21:25,919
» He hit some of these same issues that I
did. So,

269
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:30,720
» right.
>> So, what I what I'd like to do if we're

270
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:38,400
not going to have any more discussion
about the planners review, John, I know

271
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:43,360
you you put a lot of work into it. Um, I
want to give you the floor to go through

272
00:21:39,919 --> 00:21:47,520
what your your comments are. Um, what
I'm going to suggest though, we'll have

273
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:54,799
some discussion on your your thoughts,
your comments. What I'm going to suggest

274
00:21:49,280 --> 00:22:02,960
is we table this, ask that your comments
get reviewed by either the planner or or

275
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:07,520
solicitor or another attorney. Um,
not that I don't trust you, but I don't

276
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:11,600
think you're you're a specialist on
everything that you touched on.

277
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:15,840
Does that make sense to you?
>> Well, I I guess

278
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,760
so. You're not going to let me go
through?

279
00:22:16,159 --> 00:22:21,039
» No, I'm going to let Yeah. No, I want
you to go through it. We'll have some

280
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,000
discussion on it, but I I I would like
it to be reviewed by another

281
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,799
professional.
>> Oh, absolutely.

282
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:30,720
» Before we make any decisions on it.
>> And And that's I would agree to that. I

283
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,679
would propose that. Does that does that
make sense?

284
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,039
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. Whatever you do, don't trust me.

285
00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:39,679
Let me just [laughter]
show I don't know how many degrees you

286
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:45,919
have. [laughter]
>> Uh so anyway, um if you want to let me I

287
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:50,000
couldn't print out your 32 pages, so I
got to follow it on this.

288
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,200
Um
>> so the good news is I wasn't going to go

289
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:56,400
through all 32 pages.
>> Oh, awesome.

290
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,240
» But I put together a four-page summary.
>> I was going to go through

291
00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:02,520
» You gonna hand it out to everybody?
>> I'll hand that out to everybody. So

292
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,520
» all right.

293
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:30,400
So, as I mentioned the Yeah, that that
darn Gregie threw me for a loop because

294
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:34,161
I was all ready. I had my agenda all set
and I open my email this morning and I

295
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,159
see the thing from the planners.
[laughter]

296
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:42,880
» Stole your phone.
>> You didn't steal it. actually he um

297
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:47,200
he verified several of the points that I
made and I I have a sheet to talk

298
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:51,760
because I only was able to briefly try
to put together a comparison between

299
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:56,799
what he said and what I said and
that as we're going along but I'll I'll

300
00:23:54,000 --> 00:24:00,159
start on my review
before reviewing the individual

301
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:04,640
sections. This review is grounded
strictly in the fundamental pillars of

302
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:10,480
constitutional law known as Dylan's
rule. Doctrine of state legislative

303
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:13,919
supremacy over municipal governments as
established by the Pennsylvania Supreme

304
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:20,320
Court in landmark cases like
Commonwealth versus Moore from 1901,

305
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:25,120
Klein versus Harrisburg in 1949.
The township possesses zero inherent

306
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:30,080
sovereign power. is strictly a creature
of the commonwealth and can only

307
00:24:26,799 --> 00:24:34,159
exercise the specific land use powers
explicitly granted to it by the state

308
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:38,880
legislature through the Pennsylvania
municipal Pennsylvania municipal

309
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:43,440
planning code. If a township passes a
zoning mandate that goes beyond those

310
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:47,279
explicitly authorized powers, such as
trying to regulate regional electricity

311
00:24:45,279 --> 00:24:52,080
rates or override the uniform state
building code, the courts must rule

312
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:56,240
against the municipality and strike down
the text as an act completely beyond our

313
00:24:54,400 --> 00:25:00,400
legal powers.
We can see a modern example of this

314
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:05,919
boundary right here in our community. In
the fall 2026 township newsletter,

315
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:10,880
Supervisor Kaiser stated the board of
supervisors formally adopted resolution

316
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:15,200
2026,
which strongly supports Pennsylvania

317
00:25:12,559 --> 00:25:19,279
House Bill 2533.
This amendment to the municipal planning

318
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:23,760
code would empower local governments to
implement a temporary moratorum on

319
00:25:21,679 --> 00:25:28,559
massive data centers, giving
municipalities the necessary time to

320
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:33,520
update zoning ordinance and protection
laws against sorry and protect local

321
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:38,000
electric grids, water resources, and
emergency services.

322
00:25:35,919 --> 00:25:42,799
As Chairman Kaiser correctly stated, our
current municipal span of control holds

323
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:47,200
strict binding limits. The board
explicitly recognized that we currently

324
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:51,679
lack statutory power to regulate
regional electric infrastructure.

325
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:56,799
My technical revision simply brings
ordinance 260 into legal alignment with

326
00:25:54,400 --> 00:26:01,520
the exact statutory boundary that the
board of supervisors already public

327
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:05,279
acknowledge we must follow. Why include
wording in a local ordinance that

328
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:11,279
assumes we remain that we maintain such
authority if we are actively asking the

329
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:14,640
state to grant us that same authority.
The standard administrative updates

330
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:18,400
below are designed to ensure our
ordinance aligns perfectly with

331
00:26:16,159 --> 00:26:24,240
Pennsylvania law, protecting the
citizens strong environmental and noise

332
00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:27,360
goals within litigation proof shield.
One week prior to tonight's meeting, I

333
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:32,880
submitted a full review of this
ordinance of ordinance 260 and a revised

334
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:37,600
copy of the ordinance to the township
manager, township solicitor, and the

335
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:42,480
planning commission members, which I
trust you have all read. Those documents

336
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:46,240
I request be included in the final
minutes of tonight's meeting, which I

337
00:26:43,919 --> 00:26:51,360
have a copy of here. What I'll read here
is a brief summary of that review and

338
00:26:47,919 --> 00:26:56,159
the proposed changes to ordinance 260.
This goes fairly quick from here. The

339
00:26:54,000 --> 00:27:01,840
preamble cleans up text to prevent
version stacking loopholes between the

340
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:07,120
different ordinance drafts. Section A,
use rules clarifies the statutory role

341
00:27:04,159 --> 00:27:10,720
the zoning hearing board. Section B,
accessory structures, distinguishes

342
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:15,279
everyday sheds and trash enclosures from
multi-megawatt generator yards and

343
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:20,240
hybrid substations. That's one of the
things that the the planner cited on in

344
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:25,679
his report.
Section C on lot size. This is the big

345
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:30,880
restores the baseline to 25 acres. The
35 acre shift was made without map

346
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:36,720
analysis because our zoning map has zero
vacant contiguous 35 acre parcels left

347
00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:41,760
in the PI district. The 35 acre rule
functions as an uncondition

348
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:46,080
unconstitutional total ban. Even if a
specific applicant manages to merge

349
00:27:43,679 --> 00:27:51,360
smaller tracks, the standard remains
legally invalid because it creates an

350
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:56,000
unorthodized monopoly for one developer
while maintaining an unconstitutional de

351
00:27:53,840 --> 00:28:00,320
facto total ban for every other land
owner in the district. So, my analogy of

352
00:27:58,159 --> 00:28:05,120
that is if you see a sign saying
iPhones, brand new iPhone, 35% off, and

353
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:10,080
you go into the store and say, I'd like
one of those 35% off iPhones. I'm sorry,

354
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:13,600
we don't have any. When are you going to
get them more in? No, we're not going to

355
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:17,120
get any more in. How many did you have
originally? Well, we didn't have any

356
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:21,679
originally. We call that false
advertising. This is like the legal

357
00:28:19,679 --> 00:28:24,880
coral area that you're saying you got to
have 35 acres to build a data center,

358
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:30,159
but oh, by the way, we don't have any
35acre lots for you to choose.

359
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:32,960
I put wording in there that I think
straightens that out, but again,

360
00:28:31,679 --> 00:28:34,240
somebody else needs to look at it.
>> Can I comment on that?

361
00:28:33,919 --> 00:28:39,840
» Yes.
>> I mean, we do have obviously we have one

362
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:43,760
» that they're they're trying to build a
data center on now.

363
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,559
» It's 38, isn't it?
>> 25.

364
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,159
» 38.
>> There's [clears throat] two lots.

365
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,760
» Yeah.
>> Together, they might be 38,

366
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:57,279
» but individually they're not.
>> So, they can combine them. But if you

367
00:28:55,279 --> 00:29:02,080
pass the ordinance says it's required to
be 35, you not only blocked out anybody

368
00:28:59,919 --> 00:29:06,399
else, but you've created this artificial
monopoly saying you let one guy through,

369
00:29:04,159 --> 00:29:09,279
but you can't let anybody else through.
The ordinance has got to be designed for

370
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:15,080
the whole township, not just for one
applicant.

371
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,080
» Well,

372
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:20,080
again, I'm not a lawyer. [laughter]
But

373
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:23,159
» you did stay the holiday. But I did say
the holiday.

374
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:31,520
Um, we do have I mean what's what's the
vary property size? I mean they they

375
00:29:29,919 --> 00:29:35,600
could very well turn around and say you
know warehouses the appetite is weighing

376
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:43,039
for a warehouse. Let's put a data center
there. That's that's over 35 acres.

377
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:46,080
» I don't know. I'm pretty sure
>> I looked I found there were total there

378
00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:49,279
were there were when I read the map
there were three that I found and I went

379
00:29:47,919 --> 00:29:52,960
into Google Earth and I found buildings
on all three of them. I don't know one

380
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:56,480
of
I don't know who they all belong to, but

381
00:29:54,559 --> 00:30:02,880
they're they were already developed
>> and like you know like we're seeing

382
00:29:59,919 --> 00:30:07,520
that question and each acquire property
to get the desired amount of property

383
00:30:04,399 --> 00:30:13,840
they need. I mean they they can buy
contiguous lots parcels

384
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:20,120
from what I understand my reading of the
rule is that's still a violation forcing

385
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,120
them to do that.

386
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:26,159
All right. Well, let's let legal look at
that one.

387
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:29,360
» Yes. But those are my thoughts on and I
understand.

388
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:33,200
Section D, acoustic and noise
measurements irons out a hidden

389
00:30:31,039 --> 00:30:40,320
contradiction where section S of the
draft permits 55 dB while section D

390
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:45,200
limits it to 25 instead of 45. Because
decibb are logarithmic, a 10dB gap

391
00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:50,159
allows the facility to run twice as loud
at night. PA law dictates all text

392
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:53,399
contradictions must be resolved in favor
of the developer.

393
00:30:53,440 --> 00:31:02,080
That was also one of the items that um
planner identified and I like my answer

394
00:30:59,039 --> 00:31:06,559
better. Of course, also under
enforcement tools, changed a should to

395
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:12,960
shall, which makes testing protocols
mandatory, isolates background traffic

396
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:17,279
noises, removes the Y20 DBA generator
testing loophole, requires high

397
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:22,320
precision ANC type 1 research
instruments instead of loose consumer

398
00:31:20,159 --> 00:31:26,320
meters.
Section E for loading docks increases

399
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:31,679
off- streetet loading births to prevent
heavy 18-wheelers from idling or staging

400
00:31:29,279 --> 00:31:35,120
on public roads.
Section F, this is another biggie,

401
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:40,320
replaces the vague opinion-based
phrasing with objective will serve

402
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:44,720
capacity letters from utility providers.
removes the groundwater extraction ban

403
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:50,480
and regional electricity infrastructure
expansion demands as water allocation

404
00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:54,880
and transmission facilities are strictly
and exclusively jurisdiction of the

405
00:31:53,039 --> 00:31:58,880
Pennsylvania sorry of the PJM
interconnection, the Delaware River

406
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:04,720
Basin Commission and the Pennsylvania
Public Utility Commission.

407
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:09,039
In all the ver all the drafts of all the
different ordinance I've read, nobody

408
00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:14,000
has touched electricity infrastructure
or electricity rates. And I believe as I

409
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:18,880
said here, it's it's not in our
jurisdiction to touch those things. It's

410
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:23,279
handled by others.
Section G for utility lines clarifies

411
00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:28,720
underground line placement through rules
and fuzzy wording. First responders.

412
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:33,200
Section H removes uninforceable training
fee demands and subjective livestock

413
00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:37,760
wording to ensure full compliance with
the state building code. Mrs. Olirri's

414
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:41,679
cow passed away. You can't assume it's
the data center's fault.

415
00:32:40,159 --> 00:32:45,440
The height baseline adjusts the
measurement rule to account for slope

416
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:50,080
topographies preventing massive visual
walls on downward slopes. This is

417
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:54,480
something I think we we should take a
look at across the board. This was the

418
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:57,200
uh you know the cold storage facility
issue that we

419
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,640
» saying we need
>> we've had plenty of discussion on that.

420
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:04,640
» Yes.
>> Section J landscape buffer strengthens

421
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:08,799
the screening by mandating high impact
type three industrial buffers and

422
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:12,799
continue with sixoot earth and BMS. That
was also one of the issues that the

423
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:17,279
planner addressed. Section K lighting
enhances criteria to establish net

424
00:33:14,799 --> 00:33:22,480
ambient trespass limits and shields
neighbors from downward slope glare.

425
00:33:20,399 --> 00:33:26,080
Section L, signage corrects formatting
flaws regarding emergency contact

426
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:29,519
postings.
Section M, cooling systems as

427
00:33:27,919 --> 00:33:32,960
requirement for closed loop cooling
infrastructure to be in strict

428
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:37,519
compliance with the mechanical and
pressure containment standards of the

429
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:40,640
Pennsylvania Uniform Construction Code,
the American Society of Heating,

430
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:45,279
Refrigerating, and Air Conditioning
Engineering Standards.

431
00:33:43,279 --> 00:33:49,760
Halfway there.
Section N environmental impacts deletes

432
00:33:47,679 --> 00:33:56,080
the subjective unmeasurable smell test
for diesel exhaust and replaces with an

433
00:33:52,559 --> 00:34:01,279
objective 7 to1 all factor meter limit.
Section O hydraological standards

434
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:06,559
hydraological safeguards strips out an
unconstitutional presumed guilty

435
00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:10,159
liability clause that would collapse in
court. replaced it with mandatory

436
00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:15,280
network of three on-site monitoring
wells with live telemetry data logging

437
00:34:13,359 --> 00:34:19,440
to automatically protect residential
water tables. So the wording in there

438
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:24,079
before was, you know, if somebody's well
runs dry, we assume it's the data

439
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:30,000
center's fault. What I'm proposing here
is that the data center would have to

440
00:34:25,919 --> 00:34:35,040
install test wells with real time
monitoring to monitor the the water

441
00:34:31,919 --> 00:34:38,879
level in those in those test wells. And
from there would be able to better

442
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:45,879
gather whether it was indeed the data
center that caused somebody else's well

443
00:34:40,399 --> 00:34:45,879
run dry or some other issue.

444
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:51,520
Section P construction hours removes
fuzzy wording that gave the township

445
00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:56,079
manager absolute personal discretion to
change operating hours locking down a

446
00:34:54,159 --> 00:35:00,160
non-negotiable construction timeline
limited strictly to public safety

447
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:04,079
emergencies.
Section Q, this is another one. converts

448
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:08,960
the rigid solar building requirement
into a progressive zoning incentive. The

449
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:13,359
original text force the placement of
solar panel hardware would lack the

450
00:35:11,359 --> 00:35:17,359
legal mechanism to compel its connection
or use.

451
00:35:15,359 --> 00:35:22,240
Section R, battery rules removes the
unconstitutional chemical material ban

452
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:27,920
on lithium-ion batteries. Substitute
strict containment setbacks with

453
00:35:23,839 --> 00:35:32,640
mandatory NFPA 855 explosion venting
code enforcement.

454
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:35,920
Section S, backup generator testing and
use, irons out the dangerous

455
00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:41,040
contradiction which section D required
strict noise compliance. Yet section S,

456
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:44,880
need a blank check to bypass noise caps
during outages.

457
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:49,200
What I propose in here is that the the
restriction is 45. No matter what,

458
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:54,960
whether it's an outage emergency,
whether generators are running or not,

459
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:58,640
they got to stick to the 45 dB at night.
Section T. Electronic waste removal

460
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:03,520
replaces a vague and uninforcable
corporate procedure statement with

461
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:07,440
strict clear code enforcement tracking.
Operators are required to maintain a

462
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:12,079
certified EPA hazardous waste
identification number and route all

463
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:18,560
commission server infrastructure
exclusively through certified eswarts

464
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:23,200
or R2 recycling pipelines.
Section U, economic funding, converts

465
00:36:21,359 --> 00:36:29,359
the illegal cash funding requirement
into a standard legally permissible

466
00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:33,839
capital infrastructure impact study.
Section V dis decommissioning and

467
00:36:31,599 --> 00:36:39,040
abatement replaces invalid private
building bond with legally defensible

468
00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:45,359
public nuisance abatement tracking using
court issued administrative warrants.

469
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:50,000
Section W. Escore review fees adjust the
review building tracks to match NPC

470
00:36:47,359 --> 00:36:53,760
guidelines. Protects townshipdirected
studies while removing ordinary legal

471
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:59,680
overhead.
Section X ordinance integration removes

472
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:04,560
ambiguous ambiguities regarding how this
text interacts with our other existing

473
00:37:01,839 --> 00:37:09,280
municipal codes. And I added three new
requirements. In section M, I add a

474
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:15,920
requirement for air filtration as an
automated MV 13 particulate

475
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:20,000
filter louver requirement to protect
local power system from emergency

476
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:24,000
generator triggers caused by external
agricultural or environmental smoke. So

477
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:29,359
if there's a fire down the street and
there's a lot of smoke in the area

478
00:37:27,599 --> 00:37:32,800
right now without any filtering, the
smoke gets inside triggers the equipment

479
00:37:31,119 --> 00:37:37,359
to think that there's an emergency and
kicks in the generators. This requires

480
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:42,000
them to put filters on the air coming
into their facility to filter out any

481
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:47,280
any particulate matter like that.
>> Where did you find that?

482
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:51,040
» Lots of digging. Yeah, I was busy for
last week.

483
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:57,200
» Apparently,
>> section N EMF radiation shielding adds a

484
00:37:54,320 --> 00:38:01,359
strict 4.0 0 millig maximum boundary
threshold to protect surrounding homes

485
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:07,200
and schools from high voltage
electromatic field electromagnetic field

486
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:11,760
radiation.
In section Y, hardware upgrade triggers

487
00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:16,880
adds a new post construction
modification clause. This requires a

488
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:21,520
developer developer to return for a
fresh technical review if they upgrade

489
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:26,160
server densities or swap out rooftop
solar fan sorry rooftop fans ladder

490
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:30,960
equipment after construction is
complete. I mean all new housing changes

491
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:36,320
so fast every couple years things
change. So if I think it was 20% I had

492
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:39,680
in there that if they if they replace
more than 20% of their gear, they got to

493
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:43,760
come back through for another round of
restudies to make sure they still meet

494
00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:47,839
all the other requirements part of their
original construction.

495
00:38:46,079 --> 00:38:52,240
So in summary, when a tenant rolls the
dice on a poorly drafted ordinance,

496
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:56,720
Pennsylvania judges do not simply te
adjust the text, they strike it down

497
00:38:54,560 --> 00:39:00,960
entirely. Under long-standing
Pennsylvania appellet case law, the

498
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:05,200
counter faces direct exposure under
three specific doctrines.

499
00:39:03,359 --> 00:39:12,000
Number one, the exclusionary mirage
standards in Surirk from 1977,

500
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:16,480
NEOC from 1988. If an orderant sets
dimensional barriers like an

501
00:39:13,359 --> 00:39:20,960
unachievable 35 acre lot size, it cannot
physically fit on the remaining vacant

502
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:24,240
land within the district, judges strike
it down as an unconstitutional total

503
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:31,040
ban.
Number two, statutory preeemption SECCC

504
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:35,760
versus London Grove Township for 2008
and Dukane Light from 1954. When the

505
00:39:33,839 --> 00:39:41,119
state legislature established uniform
statewide rules like the Pennsylvania

506
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:45,760
Uniform Construction Code Act 45 or the
Pennsylvania Public Utility Code, local

507
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:50,800
zoning cannot alter or add to those
technical systems. Courts routinely

508
00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:56,079
invalidate local texts and overreaches
into fire, battery, solar, and

509
00:39:53,520 --> 00:40:00,079
electrical system boundaries.
Number three, the favorability mandate.

510
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:05,839
If an ordinance contains internal
contradictions or mathematical conflicts

511
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:10,320
such as the 45dba versus 55dba property
line noise mismatch, Pennsylvania law

512
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:15,520
dictates that judges must resolve the
ambiguity strictly in favor of the

513
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:19,359
developer and against the township.
The reason I compiled this line by line

514
00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:23,520
audit was to protect our county from
severe legal liabilities. The

515
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:28,240
Independent Citizen Group did an
absolutely phenomenal job establishing

516
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:32,800
the strong environmental, water, and
acoustic goals that we all want to see

517
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:38,000
protect West Rockill Township. They gave
us a masterful design tree. My work here

518
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:41,680
was not to cut down the tree, but rather
to use the pruning shears of

519
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:47,119
Pennsylvania case law to remove the
unconstitutional dead wood before

520
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:51,200
developers litigation team uses to tear
down our entire zoning control in county

521
00:40:49,359 --> 00:40:55,200
court.
When this commission reviewed ordinance

522
00:40:52,880 --> 00:41:00,319
257, the majority voted that the text
was adopted, it should receive an

523
00:40:57,119 --> 00:41:04,240
independent third party legal review. I
ask, where did that official

524
00:41:02,319 --> 00:41:09,119
recommendation go?
it went nowhere. I'm not a gambler. I

525
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:14,319
don't like to just roll the dice and
gamble that no one files a claim against

526
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:17,680
us. I don't like unnecessary risks. And
most of all, I don't like the idea of

527
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:26,520
risking the township and its resident's
future on the question document.

528
00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:26,520
» Thank you, Kale. Thank you. Y

529
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:34,720
» you have more.
>> You say you had something else.

530
00:41:33,839 --> 00:41:38,960
» Well, I I said
>> take a break.

531
00:41:35,599 --> 00:41:44,160
» No, I I just this quick. So, I compared
the um the planner's comments under

532
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:51,359
landscape buffering. He recommended a
type two buffer 150 ft wide and landing

533
00:41:47,839 --> 00:41:55,680
12 foot tall evergreen evergreen trees.
In my

534
00:41:53,359 --> 00:41:59,760
response, it mandates a continuous type
three heavy industrial buffers with a

535
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:03,839
six-foot earth and burm and continuous
native evergreens.

536
00:42:02,319 --> 00:42:08,800
Under the section s for backup
generators, his comments, he forces the

537
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:13,119
operator to attempt to restore noise
compliance within one to three hours

538
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:16,880
after power is restored to to the
system.

539
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:20,800
In mine, I eliminated the loophole
completely mandating that permanent

540
00:42:18,319 --> 00:42:26,240
structure level three sound enclosure
perimeter acoustic barriers keep the

541
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:30,640
quiet during
under F,

542
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:35,920
expand the study to I mean the planner's
comments expand the study to list supply

543
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:41,119
sources renewable capacities and change
the name to energy use analysis.

544
00:42:39,359 --> 00:42:45,680
In my comments, I changed the framework
to a mandatoryformational power

545
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:53,440
infrastructure statement that certainly
will serve utility capacity letters.

546
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:58,000
Um, under other missing provisions, he
recommend adding definitions, security,

547
00:42:55,359 --> 00:43:04,240
fencing rules, architectural standards,
and traffic study references.

548
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:09,119
My revised text features a continuous 24
by7

549
00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:13,200
sign registry, hotline, structural
equipment shielding, dedicated off-

550
00:43:11,599 --> 00:43:18,319
streetet loading births. I didn't look
at architecture.

551
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:22,240
So that in the couple hours I had to
compare his notes against my notes after

552
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:27,040
getting the emails this morning. That's
that's a quick summary of what I came up

553
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:33,200
with with the the similarities and
differences where he identified

554
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:37,960
some of the same items I did. You had
slightly different recommendations for

555
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,960
how to resolve.

556
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:46,400
Okay.
Any comments?

557
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:51,040
» Once again, thank you, Joe. That's a ton
of work and I appreciate you doing it. I

558
00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:55,440
I don't
um thank you also John for for preparing

559
00:43:53,760 --> 00:44:01,119
this
um you know the the the 35 acre 25 acre

560
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:08,400
discussion
I'm sure at at in some way some path

561
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:15,760
there would be a way that a developer
could you know get a 35 acre lot through

562
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:20,800
some combination of something
>> if

563
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:26,480
From what I read, a developer could do
that. If if he was of the mindset, he

564
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:30,720
could go out, find parcels like this
other one did, add them together, get 35

565
00:44:29,119 --> 00:44:35,520
acres.
>> The thing I found is if he chooses to

566
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:41,200
fight, he could also fight on the basis
that there's no 35 acre. So then it goes

567
00:44:38,319 --> 00:44:48,160
to the lawyers to resolve.
>> Um, okay. Okay. So, you know, you're

568
00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:54,160
suggesting uh restoring it to the 25
acres. So, and there's how many parcels

569
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:57,359
that do do you know did you count 25
acre parcels?

570
00:44:55,200 --> 00:45:03,200
» I originally counted seven and I think
out of that seven there were

571
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:07,200
four or so that were still available.
>> So, you're I mean I guess my point that

572
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:09,920
I'm trying to make is what is enough,
right? Is zero.

573
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,160
» Well, and that's a good point that why
not

574
00:45:10,319 --> 00:45:15,040
» 100, right? So, you know,
>> pick a number. But I if you pick a

575
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:18,720
number, it's it's got to be something
that's achievable. You know, you can't

576
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:22,960
make it, as I said, if
>> if you want to buy an iPhone, it would

577
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:27,200
be false advertising. If you put it into
an ordinance called exclusionary where

578
00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:31,440
you as as I said here, you create
standards

579
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:34,560
that are impossible to meet. So,
>> well, not impossible, but difficult or

580
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:39,200
challenging under
>> challenging, right? So the question is

581
00:45:36,319 --> 00:45:42,560
do you want to
do you want to cross that you want to

582
00:45:41,359 --> 00:45:46,400
fight that battle I guess.
>> Right. Right.

583
00:45:43,599 --> 00:45:49,680
» It's people with higher pay grades than
I do to make that decision. I'm just

584
00:45:47,839 --> 00:45:54,079
pointing out the fact that the way it is
written now it's written as an

585
00:45:51,440 --> 00:46:02,680
exclusionary clause.
>> Is there some uh

586
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:02,680
basis for 35 versus 25?

587
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:11,200
I can't go off the record, but when the
first version of the ordinance was

588
00:46:08,319 --> 00:46:14,800
reviewed in the public meeting, this
room,

589
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:19,040
somebody raised their hand. They came up
to the podium and said, "I think it

590
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:23,599
should be 35 acres." That's how it got
to be 35 acres was based on one person's

591
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:27,280
public comment. I said there, as far as
I could tell, there was no other

592
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:32,520
analysis review that was done. Somebody
said make it 35. So, it got to be 35.

593
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:40,240
I don't know if that's necessarily true
because I think there was other

594
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:43,200
ordinances reviewed and they said some
township.

595
00:46:41,839 --> 00:46:47,000
» Oh, that's true. But I'm talking about
our township

596
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,000
» 35.

597
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:54,960
» I said that's how it got to be 35. It
was 25. Somebody said why don't we make

598
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:57,359
it 35.
>> It was based on the fact that there was

599
00:46:56,079 --> 00:47:00,160
proof that there was other townships
that had greater than 25.

600
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:03,040
» Oh yeah. I mean, there are some towns
that have hundred 100 acre limits

601
00:47:01,839 --> 00:47:06,720
because they put in these massive
centers, but we also don't have any 100

602
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:13,440
acre lots that they could they could
build on.

603
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:18,857
So, 30, 35, 20, I you know, what's your
favorite number? It's 100. [laughter]

604
00:47:20,767 --> 00:47:25,359
» [clears throat]
>> I guess I was just trying to figure out

605
00:47:23,119 --> 00:47:31,520
if there was a
scientific reason for 35 versus 25. But

606
00:47:29,839 --> 00:47:35,119
it does sound like
>> having sat in the room when that was

607
00:47:33,119 --> 00:47:38,960
discussed, I don't believe there was
there was any like that that was done.

608
00:47:37,839 --> 00:47:42,720
» Gotcha.
>> And there's there's also always a

609
00:47:41,119 --> 00:47:48,160
balance between the lot size and the
setbacks. you have more setbacks in the

610
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:52,240
ordinance and
whether you could meet those setbacks on

611
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:55,119
any of the 25 acre lots that exist in
the township would be the same kind of

612
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:59,119
question.
>> Yes, that's true. It's not just the

613
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,160
size, it's also the shape of the
property,

614
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:06,560
» right?
>> Might be creating a lot that's too small

615
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:11,200
to to create the building that they
need.

616
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:15,440
you know, they need they need half a
million square feet to to accomplish

617
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:21,200
what they want to do. Trying to squeeze
that on 25

618
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:24,720
with with the setbacks and any uh any
type of

619
00:48:23,599 --> 00:48:27,040
environmental issues.
>> Yeah. Wetlands, steep slopes, any of

620
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:33,200
that.
>> And but that's that's another that was

621
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:38,559
my initial reaction was if you got a 25
acre requirement, they could only build

622
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:42,880
a building so big on a 25 acre lot. If
you raise the limit to 35 acres, you're

623
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:47,119
somewhat encouraging someone to build a
bigger building because they've got more

624
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:51,280
room that they could use. So there it's,
you know, there's two sides to it. Yeah.

625
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:55,280
I mean, 25 would be the minimum. It's
not that's not the maximum. So they

626
00:48:53,440 --> 00:49:00,440
could have more property than big to
build their facility size that they

627
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,440
need.

628
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:10,079
» Well, I mean, personally, I'm still
comfortable with 35. I don't think it's

629
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:13,920
a tremendous roll of the dice. Um,
again, dealing with the fact that we do

630
00:49:11,839 --> 00:49:20,079
have a property available and and
there's, you know, the option of of

631
00:49:16,559 --> 00:49:25,599
purchasing contiguous parcels.
That's me. I'm one of five.

632
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:29,520
And we can, like I said, we'll get a
we'll get another on your

633
00:49:27,839 --> 00:49:33,599
recommendations
um and and see what they have to say.

634
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:40,400
They might, you know, they might say,
"Yeah, he's he's right, you know.

635
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:48,880
So there's two parts to that. One, the I
looked at the planner. I actually look

636
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:54,079
at his background. His is he looks at
architecture and and landscape and he's

637
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:57,760
looking at he's not looking at the legal
issues. I guess

638
00:49:56,240 --> 00:50:01,599
he's looking at the the technical
building issues. The legal issues he

639
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:07,119
didn't touch because I don't think that
that's his background. I think that is

640
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:15,040
actually the more important piece is
getting a thorough legal review and for

641
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:19,280
the supervisor to decide, you know, we
want to go strictly by the rules as the

642
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:24,079
state has laid them out to us or do we
want to try to push the envelope, kind

643
00:50:21,599 --> 00:50:29,119
of take the chance that either nobody's
going to try suing us or if they sue us

644
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:33,200
we'll we'll win in court. you know,
there's the safe route, there's the not

645
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:36,000
so safe route, and said that's kind of
up to the board to make that

646
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:39,000
determination which way they want to go
with.

647
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,079
Any other thoughts?

648
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:53,200
» I'd agree. I think a uh solid legal
review would be

649
00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:55,280
» in the township's best interest. Yeah,
>> I would agree.

650
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:59,760
» Yeah, I agree.
>> Um, all right. Let me open the floor up.

651
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:04,000
public comment.
>> I had like two questions

652
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:07,455
I decided I better list them because I
ended up with 30 [laughter]

653
00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:13,760
team Joe Swinny Holiday House Road. So
just a few questions that I had here

654
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:19,440
here when you went through and thank
you. Uh if we did all these requirements

655
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:23,599
right like in compliance who polices
them

656
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:27,040
» seriously
>> the zoning officer [laughter] the guy

657
00:51:25,599 --> 00:51:30,000
with the short pants. I mean I mean you
stop and think about it, right? Like we

658
00:51:28,720 --> 00:51:33,280
say, "Hey, you got to do this, this,
this, and this."

659
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:37,280
» And then nobody ever shows up to confirm
that they're in compliance. The decibb

660
00:51:36,079 --> 00:51:41,119
is the neighbors going to say, "Hey,
anything loud over there?"

661
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:44,000
» Wasn't in one of the drafts like an
annual review or something?

662
00:51:42,770 --> 00:51:46,319
[clears throat]
>> Yeah, right. I think there was something

663
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,680
in there like
>> in one of the in one of the first

664
00:51:47,839 --> 00:51:52,240
rounds, first or second round, there was
something about annual annual review.

665
00:51:51,839 --> 00:51:56,559
» Yeah,
>> I think I've got something in there that

666
00:51:54,079 --> 00:52:01,200
expands on that. like it was the the
asbuilt then like six months after built

667
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:05,520
right and then maybe like another 12
months after that.

668
00:52:02,319 --> 00:52:08,720
» But you're right. I mean ultimately
>> people will get away with whatever they

669
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,960
can get away with. Absolutely. No
complaints.

670
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:14,720
» Absolutely. So I was in corporate for a
while, right? And if you knew corporate

671
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,960
was coming, you got ready for them. So
I'd rather them not know when we're

672
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:20,559
coming.
>> You know what I mean? So there should be

673
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:23,200
some surprise inspections. And also I
think the the agreement should be

674
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:28,000
written that we have the right to
inspect at whenever we want. That should

675
00:52:26,319 --> 00:52:33,599
be written into it. Just a thought,
right? Uh like I said, a set inspection

676
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:37,280
schedule, you know, it's kind of scary
because they'll probably make the decibb

677
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:42,880
real low when you show up, right? And it
won't be that surprise. So think about

678
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:46,319
that. All right. U
if they're out of compliance, is there

679
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:50,400
going to be kind of penalties set up?
You know what I mean? Like it seems like

680
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:55,520
in this township people get away with
doing something and then it's like smack

681
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:58,800
their hands and they move on. So let's
just say they're way out of compliance

682
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:01,520
or do we have the right to shut them
down? Do we have the right to do

683
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,400
anything? A
>> certain amount of time to come into

684
00:53:03,119 --> 00:53:07,040
compliance before we
>> Right. I mean, it's still going to be

685
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:10,000
written to say like you got to Yeah. say
like, "Hey, listen. We showed up today.

686
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:13,599
Your decibels are real high and
contaminants for this, whatever,

687
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:18,400
everything you listed to say there's
going to be, you know, a chart to follow

688
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:23,440
to say, hey, a timeline of events, you
know, a date to be in compliance, and if

689
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:28,880
not, here's your penalties, right?" and
and you sort of reinforce some of my

690
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:34,160
argument here because
when I read the original version of

691
00:53:31,599 --> 00:53:39,440
draft 260, there were a lot of things
that weren't

692
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:43,359
measurable. It was like, you know, like
the smell test, you know, somebody

693
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:46,079
smells diesel fuel,
>> somebody's

694
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:49,280
cat dies or whatever,
>> right?

695
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:55,520
» You know, I I tried to land line this up
so that it's very definitive with

696
00:53:52,559 --> 00:53:59,280
specific measurable goals. So, somebody
could go out there with a, you know,

697
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:01,520
meter and say, "You're too loud."
>> Right?

698
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:05,520
» You sound kind of loud today.
>> We had an old saying, what gets measured

699
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:07,359
gets done. So, you got to get you got to
measure, right? So

700
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:11,920
» add that to my next round.
>> Right. Just [laughter]

701
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:14,559
just a thought, right? Uh you know, and
then going back to what you you

702
00:54:13,359 --> 00:54:17,839
mentioned, your name is Andy.
>> Andy.

703
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:21,520
» Andy. I'm Joe. Nice to see you again.
>> And the whole thing with the 25 and 35

704
00:54:19,839 --> 00:54:25,280
acres. What really worries me with that
is, you know, one, it opens up the door

705
00:54:23,599 --> 00:54:31,359
that there are four lots that are
currently possible. Okay. Two, what I've

706
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:34,800
heard is when the lot lines get moved,
it seems pretty simple. So, I know that

707
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:39,040
other parcel I think you're talking
about, I started looking at it saying,

708
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:43,599
"Wait, if they combine the two, you
know, and if we did 35, I think it ends

709
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:46,800
up being 38, they still make it,
>> right?" You know what I mean? But like,

710
00:54:45,359 --> 00:54:51,599
how easy is it going to be to like move
the lot lines and do whatever? So, uh, I

711
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:59,359
still think it should say at least 35,
especially when we learned other areas

712
00:54:54,000 --> 00:55:03,440
had 50. So, that's just a thought. Um
what and what about the the the frontage

713
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:07,440
and the side requirements and that goes
back into I think we're talking about

714
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:10,160
the building size and I and I like your
thought about that when you say hey if

715
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:15,119
you went to 35 that means they could
probably build a bigger building. So, do

716
00:55:12,559 --> 00:55:19,440
we know right now if it's a 25 acre lot,
not knowing what the wetlands are and

717
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:23,440
anything else, how big of a square a
footprint can they build? You know, I

718
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:26,079
mean, how big is that building? You
know, what does that generate? I don't

719
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,480
know. I don't have the answer, but
throwing it out there, we should

720
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:33,040
probably know that.
>> Like, basically 25 acre lot, assuming no

721
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:36,800
wetlands, the largest building you could
build. We already had the height, but

722
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:40,000
what's the dimensions?
>> Yeah. I mean, it all depends on the on

723
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:43,599
the parcel,
>> right?

724
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:47,119
Exactly. But I mean looking at you're
right because if the lines aren't square

725
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:51,520
right you're coming in on somewhat you
know and I didn't hear you mention that

726
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:55,839
but at the one meeting I for which one
it was there so many of them. Uh the

727
00:55:54,000 --> 00:56:00,000
question came up about the requirements
on the side and the frontage and ours

728
00:55:58,319 --> 00:56:04,400
was really limited and that's where we
really really concerned. I think it was

729
00:56:01,599 --> 00:56:08,160
like 150 ft or 100 feet or something on
the side. And that's like the the

730
00:56:06,319 --> 00:56:10,960
neighbors were worried at that time
saying, "You got to be kidding me." Like

731
00:56:09,839 --> 00:56:16,000
basically, you're going to build this
massive building and be, you know, 100

732
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:21,119
feet from me or 50 feet, whatever the
number was. It was small. Okay. But I

733
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:22,960
didn't hear that get addressed tonight.
Right.

734
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,799
» That's it.
>> That's me.

735
00:56:23,359 --> 00:56:27,359
» Yeah. I was going to say what I read
tonight was my four-page summary of my

736
00:56:26,559 --> 00:56:30,079
32page.
>> No, no, I'm with you. But this I'm just

737
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:33,440
throwing it out there just to trigger
your brains to say, "Hey, maybe it's in

738
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:36,640
your thoughts later or maybe I missed
it." Okay.

739
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:41,200
» Pretty sure there was a 150 foot
>> I think it was set back.

740
00:56:38,720 --> 00:56:46,000
» For most cases, the the version three
has 200 foot setback unless it's against

741
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:50,720
a residential property. Then it requires
400 feet 400 feet from residential, 200

742
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:54,400
feet from anything else.
>> That sounds better, right? I mean, it's

743
00:56:52,319 --> 00:56:58,640
better than the 150, but at least my
memory was right about the 150.

744
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:02,440
It stuck into me a little bit there.
Okay. Uh

745
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:10,079
» yeah, that was it. That was the things.
So, but I appreciate your time.

746
00:57:09,599 --> 00:57:14,400
» Thank you.
>> Everything you put into it. All right.

747
00:57:12,559 --> 00:57:17,720
» Anyone else?
Come on up.

748
00:57:21,119 --> 00:57:29,680
» Hey y'all. Uh my name's Ethan Seuss. I
live on 480 Broadway Avenue, uh, which

749
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:35,760
is Sersville. Um,
but I imagine like you and I'm also very

750
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:41,359
worried about, uh, data center. I've
only recently moved here. Um, as of uh,

751
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:44,960
less than two months ago. Um, so I
haven't been to the previous meetings or

752
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:49,520
exactly where you guys are at on all
this. You know, what's been discussed

753
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:55,599
previously. Um, what you put together is
is really amazing and everybody being

754
00:57:51,599 --> 00:57:59,920
here. We appreciate it. Um, as I said, I
don't know exactly what's been said

755
00:57:57,359 --> 00:58:04,559
previously. I'm wondering
>> uh there's been a proposal. There's been

756
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:08,720
an informal sketch of a building. That's
correct. Uh, where is that now? And what

757
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:12,000
would that look like? What would the
course of that look like?

758
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:17,440
» As in
>> like there's been here moving forward.

759
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:22,079
» Yeah. Are they going to do they apply to
>> We're still figuring out the like

760
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:24,480
» So they have to they have to apply for
special exceptions for zoning hearing

761
00:58:24,290 --> 00:58:29,200
[clears throat]
>> which they keep pushing. I don't even

762
00:58:27,359 --> 00:58:33,599
Where are we at with this by now?
>> They made an application and they

763
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:37,680
granted an extension to the hearing
date. So at this point there's no firm

764
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:43,119
date for a hearing.
>> Okay. But they were scheduled for this

765
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:47,520
month. And part of part of the really is
the problem is now the card has gotten

766
00:58:45,119 --> 00:58:50,400
before the horse. Meaning that
>> since they filed an application already.

767
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:53,839
» Yeah.
>> They're kind of locked into the

768
00:58:51,599 --> 00:58:56,480
ordinance that was in place at the time.
>> Okay.

769
00:58:54,319 --> 00:58:58,400
» We're still trying to make the ordinance
more better than it was before.

770
00:58:58,079 --> 00:59:01,119
» Yeah.
>> So we kind of got two parallel paths

771
00:59:00,559 --> 00:59:03,599
» I see.
>> Running here that

772
00:59:02,319 --> 00:59:08,400
» hopefully some point in time will
converge in the future.

773
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:14,319
» Okay. And I I seen that um there was an
executive order that data center

774
00:59:11,119 --> 00:59:23,040
constructions uh need to comply with
local ordinances. Is that uh does that

775
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:28,240
affect what you are doing now at all or?
>> Yeah. And this the state right now has

776
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:32,160
got their own path going along.
Data centers are popping up all over the

777
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:38,799
state. Innesota there's a lot of
pressure on Harrisburg to take a

778
00:59:35,599 --> 00:59:44,000
stronger stand. Um, as I mentioned in
the beginning of my dribble that the u

779
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:48,960
the board of supervisors approved an
ordinance supporting a bill from the

780
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:51,839
Pennsylvania house put a moratorum on
data centers. The timeout, you know.

781
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:55,440
» Yeah. Yeah.
>> Take a timeout. everybody everybody

782
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:59,920
regroup figure out what they want to do
and what they need to do and then

783
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:04,079
proceed from there because right now
said the the data center development is

784
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:07,839
moving faster than a lot of
municipalities are able to to put

785
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:14,720
ordinances in place.
>> Right. Okay. Um so

786
01:00:12,559 --> 01:00:18,240
does that mean the like executive order
has fur needs to develop further in

787
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:23,920
terms of the conversation about
moratoriums or

788
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:28,319
sorry uh you had said that they already
put in an application if a moratorium

789
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:31,760
were to come in would the application
already being submitted bypass that at

790
01:00:31,119 --> 01:00:34,000
all or
>> that's a good question

791
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:36,160
» that's up to Harrisburg.
>> Okay.

792
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:39,920
» Yeah. how whether they make the
moratorium retroactive to some point in

793
01:00:38,559 --> 01:00:45,280
time in the past
>> or you know put a stake in the ground

794
01:00:42,799 --> 01:00:50,160
for anything going forward from here.
>> I don't really know the details on that.

795
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:57,760
» Okay. Oh, I I've heard rumor that since
we had started our process of creating

796
01:00:53,520 --> 01:01:03,599
the uh uh ordinance for data center
before they put their application in

797
01:01:00,799 --> 01:01:06,960
that they're going to have to
use whatever regulations we end up with

798
01:01:05,839 --> 01:01:09,280
in place.
>> Okay.

799
01:01:07,359 --> 01:01:13,200
» Is there any validity to that? Do you
know?

800
01:01:10,079 --> 01:01:17,680
» There is a pending ordinance doctrine. I
don't know, but I can't speak to when it

801
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:21,680
actually gets applied and not applied in
what circumstances it works and which

802
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:28,079
circumstances it doesn't.
>> And and where would that be coming from

803
01:01:24,319 --> 01:01:32,720
that uh that restriction?
>> That's a case law kind of restriction.

804
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:33,839
It's it's not a a written regulation
somewhere.

805
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:40,079
» Okay.
>> The regulation is the ordinance has to

806
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:44,400
be in place before the application is
>> to be applicable. You can't adopt an

807
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:48,160
ordinance after an application comes in
>> and apply it retroactively.

808
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:51,839
» Okay.
>> But there's some case law that says if

809
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:55,839
you're in the middle of preparing an
ordinance, there's some point where you

810
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:58,559
can use it.
>> I don't know when that kicks in or

811
01:01:57,359 --> 01:02:05,599
doesn't.
>> Okay. Okay. Um and would there how would

812
01:02:02,319 --> 01:02:08,480
I know about uh when their hearing might
happen or

813
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:11,440
» the township website?
>> Township website. And also on the

814
01:02:09,839 --> 01:02:14,240
township website, you can see all the
previous meetings.

815
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:16,079
» They're all all YouTube meetings.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

816
01:02:14,799 --> 01:02:18,160
» So, if you want to catch up on that, you
can watch those.

817
01:02:17,119 --> 01:02:22,768
» All right. That's perfect.
>> You can even watch yourself tomorrow.

818
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:22,768
» Yeah. Great. [laughter]

819
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:29,280
» Good stuff. All right.
>> I do that. So,

820
01:02:27,599 --> 01:02:31,883
» I sound as stupid as I sound.
>> Yeah.

821
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:35,760
» Worry about wearing the same shirt.
[laughter]

822
01:02:33,599 --> 01:02:40,400
» Um, I think that
>> Where did you say you live? Uh 480

823
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:41,599
Broadway Avenue, right next to Sersville
Elementary.

824
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:46,480
» Okay. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah, it's it's funny.

825
01:02:44,319 --> 01:02:49,920
I've only just realized the the
boundaries. You know, Sellersville

826
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:53,680
Elementary is West Rock Hill,
>> but then down the street, Sersville.

827
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:57,440
» Yeah.
>> But thank you all for your time. Nice to

828
01:02:55,760 --> 01:03:02,480
meet you.
>> Anyone else?

829
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:05,440
» All right. So, what kind of action would
you want to take?

830
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:09,599
» Table this with
>> I guess I'll go back to one of the

831
01:03:06,559 --> 01:03:14,160
things that I I would like
the the long the short version won't

832
01:03:11,839 --> 01:03:21,359
make it into the minutes because I read
it out, but I'd like the full review

833
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:26,319
and my full revised ordinance
to go into the minutes of the meeting.

834
01:03:24,079 --> 01:03:30,079
» Okay. Since that's what referred to. So,
I'll give these to

835
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:35,359
» Yeah, I'm not reading them.
Well, somebody might

836
01:03:32,559 --> 01:03:41,119
» not for the report.
>> I sent electronic copies. The only

837
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:44,920
difference is I put page numbers on. So
you can use either one.

838
01:03:47,599 --> 01:03:54,960
» All right. So again, my my suggestion
would be to to table this suggest a a

839
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:58,839
professional review of of your comments
and your your drafts.

840
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:03,119
I would include the uh planner's
comments.

841
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:06,960
» Yes,
>> in there as well.

842
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:09,200
» Thank you. Yeah, but [clears throat]
county didn't really have much to say.

843
01:04:08,559 --> 01:04:11,839
So,
>> no,

844
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:16,480
» they didn't find any spelling errors or
punctuation mistakes. [laughter]

845
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:18,880
» Um, is that what the supervisor were
expecting?

846
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:23,039
» What's that again?
>> What were the supervisor expecting us to

847
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:28,000
do by having this review tonight?
>> Um, well, they're looking for a

848
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:34,079
recommendation. I I don't think this
third round is was important to get on

849
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:36,799
the books as the first two. Um I think
they they expect us to take a little

850
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:39,760
time on this.
>> Okay.

851
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:45,440
» Um so by suggesting this review I think
falls falls into place

852
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:51,839
» because I I was a little confused that
at the meeting they didn't formally

853
01:04:48,319 --> 01:04:53,520
announce a hearing date for this review.
They just said it was going to be sent

854
01:04:53,119 --> 01:04:58,799
out.
>> Right. That's because they wanted to

855
01:04:55,359 --> 01:05:02,240
have the time to amend it again before
there's a public hearing. Once there's a

856
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:07,280
public hearing, it's very hard to change
language other than correct some typos.

857
01:05:05,359 --> 01:05:12,319
» That's what I was hoping for, but I
wasn't sure. Um, so I was assuming that,

858
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:18,400
you know, we we had to get our best
effort in tonight, but I I agree. You I

859
01:05:16,079 --> 01:05:22,799
said, don't don't take my word for it.
Lock, stock, and barrel. Have somebody

860
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:28,319
have independent verification. Right.
Engineering 101 1972

861
01:05:25,839 --> 01:05:33,280
first page of the first textbook to
human to check his engineering. So do

862
01:05:31,359 --> 01:05:37,319
the engineering. Make sure I'm
>> There you go. Somewhat legitimate.

863
01:05:37,839 --> 01:05:45,559
» Is it too late for me to ask a question?
>> No. Come on. Too late.

864
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:45,559
Name and address, please.

865
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:53,760
» Joanne the Tally, 113 Ridge Valley Road.
I'm just curious. You're talking about a

866
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:58,880
a review, an an attorney review, I
assume, right? Is that our attorney that

867
01:05:56,160 --> 01:06:02,160
would be doing it or have you engaged a
specialized attorney? No, no offense to

868
01:06:01,039 --> 01:06:09,599
ours. Just
>> that's exactly my point. I I I

869
01:06:06,079 --> 01:06:12,720
the way I think it works is our attorney
is like a GP,

870
01:06:11,119 --> 01:06:14,160
» general practitioner, and then there are
specialists.

871
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:16,640
» Yeah.
>> My recommendation that this goes to the

872
01:06:15,839 --> 01:06:20,880
specialist.
>> Good. Okay. Good. and somebody that's

873
01:06:19,359 --> 01:06:23,119
independent of the township that can
look at it.

874
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:28,160
» Well, I've heard that there are some
that specialize specifically in this

875
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:31,520
because it is such a hot topic and so
many nuances. It would be important to

876
01:06:30,319 --> 01:06:36,559
not miss anything.
>> Yeah. I mean, we hired this planner and

877
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:42,720
not quite sure why we didn't hire a
specialized attorney.

878
01:06:40,079 --> 01:06:46,000
» Can you answer that question?
>> Thank you.

879
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:51,359
» Thank you. Thank you.
>> All right. So, we just want to make a

880
01:06:48,319 --> 01:06:56,480
motion here. Um, we're going to include
that your [clears throat]

881
01:06:53,599 --> 01:07:04,559
review on the minutes. Um, that doesn't
need need motion. Uh, table is um

882
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:08,559
suggesting a review by specialized
attorney and the planner.

883
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:11,839
» And Chris, will the public comments or
some of them be put into what you

884
01:07:10,559 --> 01:07:15,119
learned tonight or not?
>> Anything that's in the microphone?

885
01:07:14,191 --> 01:07:19,319
[laughter]
couple days more.

886
01:07:20,079 --> 01:07:24,071
» That won't be recorded. [laughter]

887
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:33,440
» Um, does somebody want to make a motion
to that effect?

888
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:38,960
So, a motion that we um
recommend that the

889
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:45,200
comments from John and the planner be
put before a specialized

890
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:50,000
attorney to review for applicability and
defensibility

891
01:07:47,039 --> 01:07:55,440
for the township tableling any further
action until we get those results.

892
01:07:54,000 --> 01:08:00,799
» I was thinking that.
>> All right. All in favor? I

893
01:07:58,319 --> 01:08:03,520
» opposed. Motion carries. All right,
John. Thank you again.

894
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:08,079
» Thanks.
>> Um,

895
01:08:05,119 --> 01:08:10,079
so that's it. Uh, you do you have any
other new business?

896
01:08:09,359 --> 01:08:12,319
» No.
>> Anyone else?

897
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:16,239
» No.
>> All right. All the floor public comment

898
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:22,319
again.
Anyone? All right. Seeing none for a

899
01:08:19,359 --> 01:08:26,719
motion to what we call this.
>> Ajourn. Thank you.

900
01:08:24,319 --> 01:08:31,799
I'll make
>> all in favor.

901
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,799
» Thank you.

902
01:08:37,679 --> 01:08:43,920
» Alex,
>> when is your trip to South Africa?

903
01:08:41,199 --> 01:08:49,520
» Well, theoretically it would be in
November.

904
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:49,520
Um cuz that's their