[0:00] Meeting is adjourned. Welcome, everyone, to the regular city council meeting for Monday, August 24th, 2020 sixth. It’s 6:30 p.m.. Note that this is broadcast live on Town Square Television as well as we broadcast several times throughout the month. And so, uh, hopefully you can take us in live, but if you don’t, you can rewatch it.
[0:30] Um, again, tonight is live on Monday, August 24th. Clerk, could you please take the roll? Yes. Council Member Armen. Here. Council member Berry here. Council member. Ansari here. Council member from here. Council member Justin here. Council member. Gulley here. Mayor Napier here. Thank you. Can everyone join me in the Pledge of Allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag.
[0:57] Of the United States of America. And to the Republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Thank you, everyone, for being here tonight. We are excited. We have a very special meeting tonight, so we’ll start it out by adopting tonight’s agenda.
[1:19] Everybody’s had an opportunity to review it. Any questions changes or a motion to approve. Move approval. Actually didn’t you want to swap those two items? Sure. Yeah. Mr. mayor, uh, request would be to swap items 11 A and B in terms of order. Oh, perfect. Can do that. Anything else? If not, I would entertain a motion.. So moved.
[1:45] We have a motion. Second and a second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed? That passes. Our next item on the agenda is five. It is the Open Council work session briefing. It’s really easy tonight. We just talked about the 2027 budget review.
[2:04] We received an update and a preliminary levy suggestion. And we’ll be working that towards a final budget later at later meetings. Next item is very exciting. It’s our number six. It’s proclamations, presentations recognitions. We have a very exciting proclamation. Um, I have been mayor for this is my eighth year and I have the honor to.
[2:33] This is my fourth recognition of 100 year old birthday in the city of West Saint Paul, and we’re very excited to have Pat Webber here tonight. So I will start by reading a proclamation. Um, I’m going to read the proclamation. We’ll kind of summarize, uh, Pat’s life here in West Saint Paul.
[2:55] So whereas Pat Webber was born in Saint Paul, Minnesota, on August 10th, 1926, and has reached the remarkable milestone of 100 years of age. And whereas Pat and her husband Bob Weber, moved to West Saint Paul in 1963 and made their home on Logan Avenue, where Pat continues to reside today.
[3:24] And Whereas Pat and Bob shared 48 years of marriage and together raised five children, building a lovely family, a loving family, and creating a lasting legacy for the City of West Saint Paul and the community. Whereas Bob passed away at age age of 69, and Pat continued to be a devoted mother, grandmother, great grandmother and valued member of her community.
[3:48] And Whereas, throughout her career, Pat held several jobs but especially enjoyed her final position as a lunch lady at Henry Sibley High School. Mm. Now, now it is renamed Two Rivers High School, where she had the opportunity to interact with and care for generations of young people.
[4:13] And whereas Pat is the proud grandmother of 14 grandchildren and the proud great grandmother of 19 great grandchildren, whose lives are a testament to the love, strength and devotion she has given to her family. And whereas Pat has always been tremendously proud of her five children, one of her sons dedicated 25 years of service as a police officer for the City of West Saint Paul.
[4:35] And Whereas, reaching the age of 100 is an extraordinary milestone worthy of celebration, reflection and gratitude. And the City of West Saint Paul is honored to recognize Pat Webber for a century of life. Family memories and community.
[4:58] Now there will be I, the mayor of the City of West Saint Paul and the City Council do hereby proclaim a celebration of Pat Webber’s 100th birthday and extend the heartfelt congratulations and appreciation of the City of West Saint Paul to Pat Webber and this extraordinary milestone. Milestone made her 100 years of life be celebrated as a legacy of family, perseverance, service and love and made her story continue to inspire generations who follow it.
[5:21] In witness whereof, I have here hereunto set my hand and caused the official seal of the City of West Saint Paul and Minnesota to be affixed this 24th day of August 20th 26th. On a personal note, I have known the Weber family for many, many years.
[6:03] Our my siblings all went to school with her her her kids, which is great. I actually had the privilege of coaching hockey with with her granddaughter, Leah, so I got to know her real well. Um, just a great family. Um, her son, 25 years on the on the on the police force. Um, so just a great family for our community.
[6:28] And I remember where that house was for many years. Uh, you know, they’ve lived across the street from my in-laws, the Polson. My sisters, in-laws, the Fulton’s always over in that on Logan Avenue. So great. Great to have you here tonight. Uh, we you did have a celebration at Martha Park and a few of our council members.
[6:46] And I think our fire department and police force showed up to say, happy birthday. Um, we do have some hats that you handed out. So I’m going to let you know right now, we’re zooming in on this so the whole community can see that this beautiful face on the hats. So.
[7:03] Um, we might as well say happy birthday, don’t you think? A hundred year old. So let’s kick it off. All right. Happy birthday. To you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday. You passed. Happy birthday to you. I’d like to give you this proclamation.
[7:36] Do you have another one over there? Do you want me to sign this one? No, I have the next one. Oh, yeah. Perfect. I have to get a picture. Of. If I can. Here’s your proclamation. Pretty cool, huh? Here we go. Smile. Good. This is yours? Yes. Any of the families would like to say. A few words here and there? No. I think you said everything. Let’s. Today.
[8:22] I want anybody to know. Yeah, we try to keep it on the bottom. Regulations. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you so. You guys are welcome to stay. Nothing’s going to get more exciting than that, though. At this time. Do we come back next year? Yeah, absolutely. We’d love to have you back next year. Okay.
[8:56] Now we’re going to go to community comments. So anybody wishing to speak about something that’s not on tonight’s agenda, please come forward. Okay. Seeing none I’ll move on to council comments and I’ll look to Council Member Harmon. Thank you. Mayor. As you mentioned in your, uh, open council briefing, we talked about the budget some more.
[9:20] And I just like to let everyone in, the audience and everyone listening or online watching online. Uh, that now is the time to let us know about any budget thoughts that you have. Uh, December would not be the time. So, uh, trust us. So you’re much better heard now than than later.
[9:41] So, uh, if you have any thoughts on the budget, let us know. And please be as specific as possible on, uh, not just what it needs to be lower than it is. So thank you. Great. Council Member Kelly. Nothing for me tonight. All right. Council member ring. Simon very quickly. This Friday is cops in the Park.
[10:02] That event occurs from 630 to 8:30 p.m. at the Wesley Hall Sports Complex. That’s 1650 Oakdale Avenue. It’s a really fun event. Uh, service providers and organizations from all over Dakota County are there. You can touch the big trucks with the police and fire and some well beyond that. There’s backpack giveaways back to school.
[10:21] There’s a movie at 830. A little Lilo and Stitch. Is that right? Lilo and stitch. Can’t remember that. Yes. Lilo and stitch. So that’s all. Friday night. And then, just secondly, and finally, I wanted to thank Mr. K.J. Johnson and residents of Color Collective.
[10:37] There was a backpack giveaway this past Sunday, and I believe over 200 children were served in almost 100 families. So thank you so much for those efforts. It was an amazing event. Someone even came in wearing a snake, so it was awesome. That’s it. All right. Thank you. Council member from. Yeah, I’ll just echo Councilperson Herman’s comments.
[10:55] Please let us know what you feel about how you feel about the budget. Um, specific. Specific as you can get is great. And really any other topic. We’d love to hear from you. Occasionally I hear from people. Well, I thought about reaching out, but I don’t want to bother you or please bother us. It’s our job to be bothered.
[11:10] So, um, you know, please, you know, we want to hear what we think about any subject. So that’s it. Um. Yes. Is this the time we would bring up our concerns about, um, like the Charleston condominium project? It’s actually, we have a it’ll be on the agenda. public hearing. It’s on the agenda.
[11:31] So you can actually talk to it at that time? Yeah, absolutely. I was can you take over? Yeah, I’d love to. I’m going to. Just go. Oh, yeah. Um, see, a lot of people here probably want to talk, so I’m gonna get out of the way.
[11:47] But yeah, I’ll echo the thing about, if you have budget ideas, please do reach out to us is kind of a crucial point for that. So thanks. Uh. I, Councilmember Brown, I got to go to past birthday party. Uh, she had three cakes, so I’m just. Uh.
[12:04] It was really well loved, but it was also very sweet to see her family all come together and know that they have such deep roots here. So it was pretty fun. And we were both honored to be there. And, uh, then the fire department came in and we’re cooler than we were, so, um. That’s fine. Uh, I love that we celebrate things like that.
[12:20] Um, for council comments, we have the consent agenda, which is a pretty big one. Uh, we’ve got August 10th, 2026, city Council meeting minutes. List of claims for August 24th. City business licensing donation to the city pet shop. Pulling those out. I was going to ask that. Go for it. Uh, I neglected to mention that Arthur Olson, this is on the consent agenda. Donating a $200.
[12:41] The special to special police programs. So thank you to Arthur Olson. Everything like that. Definitely. And for for the reprieve. Uh, we got final payment for the Smith dot intersection and improvements, uh, performance. Athletics dome lease renewal or awarding the contract with Smith Todd. Public space construction, great river greeting tree planning contract and awarding a contract to Zach’s auto park lot.
[13:02] Expansion. Any questions about the consent or a motion at all? Move approval. Second. All in favor of approving the consent? I perfect. Just in time for public hearings. All right. Sounds good. I’ll go back to, uh, council comments just to get mine in.
[13:20] And I’m sure everybody talked about it, but cops in the park. Um, someone asked me. What? You know, you just think cops in the cop. Cops. Literally cops in the park. And it’s I just wanted to reiterate what cop stands for. Community. Community outreach with Public safety. So it’s a lot more than our police officer in the park.
[13:39] There’s just so much to do with it. Related around community and public. Um, and then also, uh, the last day of the pool is today, believe they’re shooting her down. So there’s a, um, that that’s happening.
[13:58] And so I saw I came in to sign a few things this morning or this afternoon, and, um, I saw them putting the final numbers together to assess, you know, how the how the summer went. So, um, that’s a sad day for our residents, but it means schools right around the corner. Um, that’s all I have. I’ll move on to the item. 11 public hearings.
[14:17] We’re going to hit B, so you have A and B on your agenda. B is going to move up to a. Um. So and that was done right before the meeting. So the first item is actually B it’s approved resolution approving a housing improvement fee for the Charlton Place Housing Improvement Area.
[14:35] And again these are public hearings. So so how these work is will receive a report from staff. We will have questions for staff. And then once that conversation is done, we’ll open up a public hearing for people to come speak on it. So Ben Boyd, Community Development Director welcome. All right. Thank you, Mr.
[14:52] Mayor. So, uh, both these these two items are kind of related to each other. Uh, per statute, we have to hold separate public hearings for both of them. So, uh, like I said, they’re related, but they’re for two separate items.
[15:08] So the first item tonight is for the public hearing and approval of the resolution establishing the housing improvement fees for the Charlton Place Housing Improvement Area. So a little bit of background on what a housing improvement area is. Essentially, it’s a statutory tool that authorizes cities to help finance common area improvements for homeowners associations, typically through city bonding.
[15:30] Um, the city did adopt a policy for housing improvement areas back in March of 2024. Uh, that basically established the program’s purpose authority, authority, a goals and approval criteria. And Charlton Place is the first hire application that the city has received since that policy was adopted. So again, tonight, I think I hit the wrong button.
[15:52] Sorry. Uh, so in terms of project scope and financing, the HOA has submitted an application to the city requesting bond financing to the tune of $2,080,000. Uh, this is for common area improvements.
[16:16] Uh, per the list provided here for roof replacement for both buildings and the garage garage door replacement, exterior step replacement, uh, entrance canopy replacement, uh, balconies and patio door replacement. Various masonry repairs for the buildings. Uh, window replacement as well as mechanical and lighting improvements. Uh, quick overview. So the, um, uh, Charlton Place Estates consists of two condominium condominium buildings with a total of 34 units, uh, plus an enclosed garage building.
[16:42] So in order to proceed with this process, per the hire policy and to proceed with the application to get to this point. Uh, the policy does require that, um, residents or the owners of the 34 units submit petitions directly to the city.
[17:00] Um, the policy requires that at least 65% of those owners petition in favor of the project. Uh, we actually received, uh, petitions in favor from 31 of the 34 units so far, eclipsing that minimum requirement of 65% with 91% initially petitioning in favor of the project. So, getting down to the numbers, per the resolution. So based on that request for bonding, that equates to roughly upfront payment of $64,411.76 per unit.
[17:31] Um, we’ll get to the prepayment timing and option, uh, to pay that upfront. Uh, if not paid up front. The other option is to have, um, those fees, uh, assessed your taxes over a 20 year period, which equates to $6,457 a year.
[17:53] So in terms of timeline, tonight, we are not only looking to approve the resolution to establish these fees, but the next item, um, approve the first reading of the highway ordinance. Um, on September 14th, we’ll be looking to have the final reading of the the ordinance to establish the hire. Uh, also have the council call for sale of the bonds.
[18:10] And at that point, it actually kicks off the prepayment period as well as the veto period, which is important to note. So, um, not only does the policy require to have 65% of unit owners petition in favor to kick start the process, but after the fees are established, we do have a 45 day veto period for
[18:29] residents to veto or sub vetoes to the project. And if we receive videos from 54, 55% or more of the owners, the project basically will not proceed. So that period will kick off.
[18:50] Uh, after the second reading of the ordinance is approved by council, or if it is on September 14th, and that veto period will end on October 30th. Um, and that is the same date that the prepayment option ends as well. If owners choose to prepay their fees. And then at that point the ordinance becomes effective.
[19:08] If there’s no veto, and then we would move on to November 9th with council consideration of bond sale and the development agreement for the project. And then on November 30th, uh, the high fees would be due to the county for certification. And on or around December 1st, the bond proceeds would be available to the HOA to begin the project. So, um, I do have, uh, Stacy, uh, quilting with elders here.
[19:27] If there’s specific questions on any of this. But tonight, again, we’re looking to hold the public hearing and approve the resolution establishing the fees for the hire. Okay. I can stand for questions. Well, first of all, the timeline was very helpful. I appreciate you sending that out.
[19:44] I think, you know, we haven’t done this before. So it’s it’s a tool that we’ve had, but we’ve no one has taken advantage of it. So I appreciate that that they’re willing to do that. Um, it is great to hear that they do have an out. If, uh, once fees are set. I think that’s only makes sense.
[20:05] So but here today, we’re just determining whether or not to, uh, move forward with this. Right? Yeah. I think it’s important to note that the city, with this hire, um, basically, the city’s acting as the lending institution. So, um, we received application again from the HOA.
[20:27] Um, for this, uh, bonding, this financing along with the petition. So, um, really is just the next step in the process to establish those fees. And if we do not receive more than 45% of owners veto in that 45 day period, we’ll continue the process. Right. Um, question for you.
[20:50] So we received some, um, correct letters or emails from residents that are a part of that. And wondering what our, our ability is to, to to say no. If they met the criteria. So I would look to maybe Gretta. I mean, if they met all of the requirements that we have in the, in the program. I guess I need some clarification. If if they met the requirements.
[21:17] So in other words, 55% of them come back or not say say 25% come back and say we don’t agree with this anymore. Okay. Do we have the ability to say, you know what? We we can just say no. Sure. Do you want me to take that or. Yeah, go.
[21:37] For it. Yeah. So in statute in 4288.18 is where it outlines the, the 45 day veto period. And um, you raise a good point, mayor, and that this is the first one that we have done. This is actually the first hire that I have done. You don’t see it utilized in very many communities.
[21:57] So I do believe the city would have the option is council’s discretion to approve this or not. Okay. I know. I know why we put it in place because it is to establish a avenue in which these h these home, uh, multifamily or multi resident condos can be repaired and upgraded and kind of done
[22:24] some renovation on them. And this does give a nice avenue for that to happen. And that’s kind of why we established it. And I would point out in the statute the minimum threshold requirement is 50%. The city’s internal policy is 65%. Correct? Correct. Yep. Okay. Councilmember going.
[22:41] Um, I just had a couple of questions. Um, first, so I mean, we we got a lot of comments. Um, well, we got some comments. I don’t know, and I don’t know how many folks are here from different units to speak to this today, but I do understand that the amount came out to be higher than what
[22:58] people were expecting. When some people were expecting. Um, is there a way? Um, first of all, is it true that we’re at a 7% interest rate? And is there any possibility of bringing that down? And second, is there a way for them to decide to take out a lower bond and say, like, only do part of the
[23:18] project rather than the whole project? Good question. I’m going to invite Stacy up. She can help better answer the interest question. Obviously it’s up to the HOA and whether or not they want to kind of scale things down and reapply. But based on the application we have now, it’s it’s for what’s being presented. So. Um. Welcome, Stacy.
[23:40] Thank you. Mayor. Members of the council, Stacy, with elders and associates, the municipal advisor for the city. Um, over the past 30 years, I’ve probably done a little over 20 of these hires for different communities that are out there. So, yes, they don’t come around quite that often.
[23:55] But just to clarify a couple things. Um, one, once you approve the fee resolution, you have over 55% or 65% that have wanted this to come forward. So again, it’s grassroots. So you have 91% of the homeowners that said, yes, we definitely want to do this doesn’t mean that people can’t have buyer’s remorse.
[24:11] And then 45% come back and say, no, we don’t want it. If that happens, then the fee doesn’t move forward and the hire doesn’t move forward, right? They can go back. They can talk about do we want a lesser project? We want lesser costs or whatever.
[24:26] You’re just here reacting again as a financial institution to help implement something that the residents want to have with regards to the interest rate for the project, essentially, as part of the process, we have to estimate high, okay, because whatever we put in that public hearing notice for interest rate and for fees, you can exceed, okay.
[24:43] So we have to build in some cushion there because one, we don’t know what’s going to happen in the market in the world. And what I can tell you from doing all of these, it will come in lower. But again, it’s our high threshold because say, if in fact we want to go sell the bonds.
[24:57] And when we add on your basis points that you have for special assessments, um, essentially if it came in at 7.5%, we couldn’t accept the bonds because it’s over the threshold. We’d have to go back through a public hearing process, re notify the homeowners and go through it all again.
[25:12] Now, we’ve just done a couple of these, I would say, in the last six months we were probably at the similar interest rate that we did advertise for. And the final ones when they came in was probably about 100 basis points lower.
[25:24] So we’re probably closer to 6%, which people are probably more used to accustomed to. Now the question usually comes up what if I prepay, right? There are some homeowners that have equity that want to prepay because they don’t want to pay interest over time. Whatever they prepay.
[25:37] Once we have final results from the bond sale, then we will do a rebate of the older payment that they have so that I’m happy to answer any more questions. Great. You answered all my questions. Thank you. Just. Councilmember Almond. So we had a work session on this.
[25:55] So from what I remember, and I just want to be crystal clear here is uh, it’d be unlikely that there would be any, uh, if this went sideways, there’d be any hit to our bond rating. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? I guess? Councilmember from. I guess my only comment would be that I feel like the. Out here is for the residents to veto it.
[26:19] You know, we’re being asked to implement a program, and the process has been legitimate up to now. And overwhelming number of people voted for this. And I know that there are some folks who are pretty shocked and don’t want this to go through, but I feel like the people to say no are the residents themselves and
[26:41] not us. And so I, you know, I plan to vote yes, to move forward because it’s not because there’s still the out and the out is with the residents. Correct. So that’s how I feel. Okay. Any other questions for staff? Yes.
[27:03] Yeah I think I think council member from kind of hit it on the head here that there are at least 3 or 4 more votes that you have to take to move this thing, trust there, that veto period.
[27:18] If you don’t pass this today, where all of a sudden off that timeline and any conversation that the HOA might want to have about decreasing that number, changing their plan, it doesn’t even matter because we won’t be able to hit those timelines any longer. The entire process is going to be thrown off. So just by approving this tonight, you’re not locking anybody into anything. You’re making it so that we can stay on the timeline.
[27:30] You get to that veto period. They have the ability if they want to change the amounts or the projects that they’re going to do. If you don’t do that tonight, then the conversation is dead and we have to start all over again. That’s my understanding essentially. Right? Yeah. Okay. All right. Um. Thanks, man. Yep.
[27:50] I will now open the public hearing. Anybody wishing to speak on this topic, please come forward. Welcome. Hello, Council. I’m Christy Dickinson. I am president of the board of the Charleston Police Association and homeowner.
[28:15] And I, first of all, want to thank you for the opportunity of having the hire loan option for our community here in West Saint Paul. I know we would be the first one. So I know there’s been a lot of questions throughout the process. And you have the staff has been great to work with as we’ve been asking those questions and working on your policy and kind of helping you out with that as well.
[28:32] Um, I want to say, as a homeowner on the homeowners side and as a board, as a president of the board, that this is really important for our community. Unfortunately, our community, um, repairs our exceed what we would have in pocket at this time. And this alone gives us the opportunity to improve our property.
[28:54] Um, and I know some city members were there. So you understand where our property is and from our scope of work, you can understand where our property is at this time.
[29:13] Unfortunately, not having this loan would mean a huge detriment that would hit our community and a very negative way in regards to a very high special assessment that we would have to do. Asking homeowners to pay that basically within a very limited amount of time.
[29:33] And I’m talking like five, ten days, who knows? Um, and so this is really important to keep Charleston Place Association moving forward as a community in West Saint Paul and making sure that we can keep those improvements on track and on, on, um, moving forward. Um, we have, as you can see from our scope of work, we have roof project projects. We are looking at boiler, we have the original 1963 boiler and the property, um, we also have issues with our balconies that would need to be addressed and taken care of.
[29:54] Even if we were to take only one of those larger projects to do, we’d still be looking at a very high special assessment that we’d be asking homeowners to pay immediately. And, um, that will put a huge stress not only on our homeowners, but it will also put a huge stress on our association.
[30:11] There’s a good chance we would not see those funds come in from all of our homeowners at this time, and therefore it could detriment the entire association as a whole. So I ask today that you continue to go on the road.
[30:27] And thank you, Nate, for mentioning that this is part one, right? This is part one. We had we worked hard to get 91% to come forward with you with a petition. We understand that the rate is not locked in at this point, and that it has a potential to go down, and we hope that will happen.
[30:45] But we ask that the council vote today to continue to move this forward. Thank you. Thank you for being here. We appreciate it. Anybody else? Okay. Seeing none I’ll close the public hearing.
[31:15] I’ll just make one comment related to, um, the spirit of putting this in place for our city is really to give a tool an avenue for people to, uh, do some home repairs to help keep their property at a upper level. We actually do, uh, individual homes can also come forward for some different grants. We have businesses that can do grants to help with their, uh, the front of their building and curb appeal.
[31:34] So it’s really goes into the spirit of what we want to do in the city of Saint Paul and make sure everybody has the ability to improve their property and to spread it over 20 years. It’s never easy to pay those bills, but to have the ability to spread it over 20 years is pretty, uh, pretty convenient for someone who wants to take take advantage of this.
[31:53] So with that, um, I will look to the council. I will move the resolution. We have a motion by from second. Second Byington. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed? That passes. Thank you Ben. And thank you, everyone for being here. And thank you for the notes that came through the emails.
[32:15] Uh, next item is item A on your agenda, which is the first reading ordinance to establish the Charlton Place Housing Improvement Area. Ben Boyack welcome. Thank you. Mayor. This is part two. So tonight again first reading and public hearing for the ordinance. Uh, first reading of the ordinance to establish the hire.
[32:35] Um, we’re going to be a lot of the same information that I probably will not rehash, but, um, again tonight, looking to hold that public hearing and prove that first reading, uh, the key thing with the background on this is that the state statute does require the city to formally adopt an ordinance to establish the hire. So that’s what this process involves.
[32:54] Again, we had 91% of unit owners in favor through petition to begin this process. Uh, in terms of the ordinance, we have scheduled the final reading for September 14th, as I mentioned in the previous timeline. So that would be the next step with this ordinance.
[33:17] Uh, again, project scopes roughly $2,080,000 for the same repairs. As we mentioned on the previous item, uh, financial risks in terms of the city is minimal. We cover this at open council work session. Last meeting, uh, through the bond payment, and, um, we haven’t our elders hasn’t seen issues with communities using this mechanism and recouping the fees through that assessment process.
[33:38] Again, the timeline tonight, first reading for this ordinance and then second and final reading on September 14th, which will then kick off that prepayment period and the veto period. As previously discussed. Um, and with that, I’ll stand for any questions. Any questions for Ben. Okay. Seeing none, I’ll open the public hearing.
[33:57] Anybody wishing to speak on this topic, please come forward. I’ll close the public hearing and look to the council. I will move the resolution again. I will. Second. We have a motion by from second by Barry. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed. That passes. Thanks, Ben, for all your work.
[34:19] Um, next item is item C11C, which is final assessment hearing. Emerson East Milan overlay project 26-3 Ross. The project looks great. I gotta tell you, I would agree. I can’t believe the sidewalks. How many people are walking up and down those sidewalks right now? It’s crazy. I don’t know. Thank you mayor and Council. So this actually.
[34:46] Robert Street. This actually this project is not the one with the sidewalks, but this is our Milan overlay here on the east end of town. It does have Emerson involved, but, uh, Emerson up to Moreland, and then it kind of sandwiched between Oakdale and Thompson County Park.
[35:03] There’s a nice before and even better after. Um, this project was completed in three weeks. I have not seen a project, a Milan overlay done in three weeks before. So the amount of, uh, disruptions to disruption to residents was minimal and it came out really great. It’s a great product. So all around awesome job.
[35:20] Um, total project cost a little over half a million. City does assess 35% of project costs for Milan overlay projects. Single family final assessments $1,846 per lot. That is about 700 more than the preliminary number was. Um, there was about six months between preliminary number and final plans and then bid opening in late February.
[35:44] Um, however, we did have six bidders on this, which is a lot. So it tells us that we did get competitive bids. We got the right price here. Commercial. So basically it’s county and city because of the park. And then our lift station paying about 15 or about $16 per foot.
[36:00] Uh, with the assessments, property owners can pay some all, um, interest free for the first 30 days. And the finance department will be sending out a letter this week with that number.
[36:23] And, uh, information on there and then any remaining balance goes to Dakota County, goes in property taxes for ten years starting in 2027 at the 30347 interest rate. So about under $200 per year with that, that’s going to hold a public hearing proof final assessment role and adopt the resolution for this project. Great. Thank you. Any questions for us? Yes. Councilmember Rahman. So we had a a letter about the preliminary, um, preliminary number versus the final. Yep.
[36:45] And can you kind of go over how that, um, changed? Yep. Sorry. Initial number was in what, August. And it was around 1100 some dollars. Um, this project kind of started late in the year.
[37:03] We kind of had some extra money in our street project fund, and I was pushing hard to get this neighborhood added and appreciate that. So, um, quick to jump on that and get the 429 started. Uh, things were added along the way, obviously, and we did did also have a bid alternate for Texas Center seal, which was approved by council. So, um, yeah.
[37:19] Six months later, we opened bids, uh, six bidders, end of the day, 1846. This is actually $17 different than the 2025 pavement management, pavement Management project. So pretty dialed in, actually. At the end of the day. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? Okay. I will open the public hearing. Anybody wishing to speak on Emerson East, please come forward.
[37:59] Good afternoon. Good evening. My, my I’m. Lee Rother. I live at corner of of Cop drive and Pearl street in, uh, the Cop Hills area. And, uh, that was my house that used to be all lit up at Christmas time. Anyway. What happened with our streets was poor. Poor work by the previous contractor who did all work.
[38:32] And on the streets. They put the work out tar on top of p rock. The p rock was too thick and the tar did not penetrate through the p rock and bond to the base base.
[39:02] Asphalt base below, and thus in the wintertime got ice cold, froze it, cracked snow plow plowed right up in my in my yard, and everybody else is. I went out and I ran my hands down with where the P rock was visible, and I ran my hand through that P rock, and it did not have any bond whatsoever to the to the
[39:27] base asphalt. And that’s why we ended up with a whole mess of streets that were just a mess. And and they had to redo the, the darn streets.
[39:54] And I told those engineers we had a meeting at Thompson Lake earlier before the project was started, that I felt that the contractor who did the sloppy work and and should have been responsible to back up his poor work and redo the the. Job at their expense. And I was totally ignored by the engineers. But that’s why I am very, very opposed to being assessed for having to pay for somebody else’s sloppy construction work.
[40:27] I hear you, I hear you for sure. And I and I’m a lot of the rest of my, my neighbors feel the same way. Well, thank you for being here. We appreciate it. Welcome. My name is Dietrich. I am also a resident in this area.
[40:51] Um, so I don’t think anyone is arguing that the roads don’t look good. I think. I think I’m not. I’m not the the road engineer, but it looks good. I want to relate how it looked to the residents from a financial period and, um.
[41:13] Uh, as Lee just said, maybe sloppy work. Um, Ross did come to our neighborhood. I think I saw you there with the the hard hat. Um, in the fall and was saying some of the things that I heard, you know, we had some extra money.
[41:33] We are, um, looking to do this project, and it’s going to be about $1,100, um, from Lee, I understood that this was maybe from some sloppy work that needed to be repaired. There was, again, it was very hard to argue whether or not these roads needed to be repaired. They they very much did. Um, 1100 seemed very steep.
[41:53] I asked a lot of questions. I don’t know if Ross remembers me from from asking the questions. Do we have to do this? Do we have to wait? Um, and then, uh, we decided maybe as neighbors, we were talking and and, um, we said, okay, I think it’s worth $1,000. Uh, that was the fault.
[42:16] They did the project, and suddenly we get the bill for 1800. So I. I’m a teacher. I don’t make huge salary. Property taxes. And this assessment would make about 12% of my gross income.
[42:43] Um, and so you can see that I’m very sensitive, that when I was expecting and I was maybe begrudgingly saying 1100 sounds like we can make it. Why some residents would be very, um, agitated without warning where we saw $1,800, $700 more than than a price that we were not expecting to pay. Now, I understand some of the the Texas underlayment or whatever.
[43:10] When I looked into the the estimates, though, it looked like the engineering estimate was only 360,000 and the lowest bidder was 3 or 488,000. So right there you have about $120,000 difference. And the end result was 516, which is which is not that much more than than 488. Maybe that could have been that that Texas underlayment.
[43:37] But all in all, it was 65% more. Than had been ever related to our neighborhood. Okay. Um, so I’m a teacher now. I have I have some quality engineering background. Um, I would like to hear more about why this looks like a failure to our neighborhood.
[44:04] Even though the roads look good, we had sloppy work. Probably bringing this up. We had not any communication that the cost was going to go up. And I see this huge differentiation between the low engineering estimate when you approve the project to when we finally get the assessment. Okay.
[44:26] So this is this is some of the the frustration that we have. I would love to know where that engineering estimate came from and what you’re going to do to improve. You know, I don’t I don’t know if, if we if we took, you know, modeling from 2005 to, to make this estimate. But if I don’t I don’t feel happy about paying this price.
[44:54] It might be a foregone conclusion. I would prefer to pay the 1100 that I agreed to on the street with Ross. When I met with him last fall. Um, but I would like to at least have some sort of corrective action, some investigation to see.
[45:17] Can we one make sure that our estimates are going to be matching more of what our bidders are actually going to be? And two, if the price changes, I want to have some communication out to residents as soon as we know so that we’re not just caught in this in this trap here. Well, thank you for being here. Appreciate it. That’s very fair, by the way. Thank you.
[45:36] No problem with that part of it. So thank you. Yeah. Anybody else? So Ross, if you could please come up. Um, first of all, I want to speak. I am a resident. I’ve been here, uh, my whole life. 20, 26 years at my current house.
[45:56] I’ve already had to pay for a complete rebuild on the street with infrastructure underneath. And then I had a mill and overlay. And I personally believe that the mill and overlay happened sooner than it needed to, because it was a poor product. They put down in a poor process for the coating.
[46:09] I’m just going to tell you, because I’m a resident and I had to pay all these taxes. So but I will ask you over the course because I want to address Lea’s concern over the course of your time here. You’ve been doing streets in the county, and now you’re at West Saint Paul.
[46:26] Over the course of those years, have you seen products that you know what, we tried it. It’s not good. We’re going to switch it up for coding. Yeah. So a maintenance. So last time this project was where the streets were reconstructed was 2005. So we’re at 21 years in which is you know, your milling overlay.
[46:42] You’re looking between 15 and 20, 25 years for a million overlay. Right. For a pavement management program. Um, previously what the city did was a chip seal. Uh, we stopped doing that about two years after I started, um, just based on. Yeah, as people said, it just it peels off.
[46:56] It peels off some of the asphalt appeals some of the lower layer off. Um, we’ve switched to a project which is, um, more of just an asphalt emulsion base. It doesn’t have that bond with the chips that peel off. So. Yep. Since my time here, we’ve moved on to, to different, uh, pavement management products.
[47:13] So again, this is a this is a 21 year old street. So yeah, an overlay is definitely the time to do it because. No question, the street needed it. We heard that. But the chipping over the chip whatever you called it chip seal uh was terrible.
[47:31] It was it within two years, it looked like my street was old and terrible. So that’s why we went away from. It’s good to know that we have processes that we’re always trying to perfect them and get them to the highest quality as possible. Because we don’t like having to redo streets prematurely. Um, 21 years. That’s a good life.
[47:51] Uh, mine lasted exactly 20 before we did a mellon overlay. Um, and one thing that that has been prominent from this council and the council’s previous have been we need to have quality streets. We need to have quality infrastructure.
[48:13] And, you know, we’ve replaced all almost all of our under over 100 year old sewer pipes down below, under the ground. Um, all of this is part of rebuilding our infrastructure and keeping it up. We know what the cost of kicking the can. This whole project, the beautiful street you have right now.
[48:29] If we were to wait of the year, the cost would have went up. So kicking the can is not good. But I would. So I hope I address Lee’s concern. I would also like to address, um, the other concern with how when you do an engineer write a estimate before you go out to bid, you set kind of the here’s what the
[48:49] project should come in at and then you bid it. Is there any reason we can’t say, hey, you have to meet this engineering or. No, it’s a I mean for 29 process. It’s a preliminary. It’s an estimate. Right. It’s a preliminary estimate.
[49:05] Uh, bidding with six months later definitely added some stuff to the project as it went through. Again, we had six qualified bidders. I’m pretty confident we got a pretty good price on that project. Okay. And to be $17, your assessment within $17 of last year’s pavement management project. At the end of the day, um, tells me that we’re in line. So.
[49:20] Okay, well, I know you do. You work hard to to to keep it at a minimal cost. We go with the lowest bidder. Um, so I know you do a great job. It’s just hard when the residents are told that this is probably what it’s going to cost, but. And then it comes in higher. And we understand..
[49:39] We like to have. Them high. You understand? This is what we’re saying? Um, it’s there’s some things that we can’t control. Um, but the other option was to say, hey, we’re going to scratch it and do it next year and see if we get lower bids.
[49:52] But that typically doesn’t happen. So, um, so, you know, the one thing we can do is I think the interest rate is 3% and spread it over ten years. Um, that’s kind of the best we can do from that standpoint. Um, yes.
[50:11] Why can’t this come out of our property taxes? Um, it does come out of. Well, you mean the county? The county pays your property taxes or charges you property taxes. Right? Why is it.
[50:30] This will come out of your taxes? The county is allowing allows us to put it on there so we you can be assessed for ten years. So it’ll come off. It’ll come off your taxes, your county taxes.. Can I. So there’s not like a property tax fund that you can take the the cost of this. Oh we pay what is our. What 35. What percentage do we pay.
[50:52] So the taxpayers of West Saint Paul pay the 65% of the total project. That’s the taxpayers citywide. And then the residents along that street pay the rest of it. And we’re and we allow you to put it we send it to the county so that the county can put it on us through your taxes.
[51:12] Can I clarify what I think she’s asking? Yes. Okay. Go ahead. Councilmember McCullough. Um, I just wanted to respond because I think what you’re asking is why why the whole thing doesn’t come out of the out of your taxes. Totally understand.
[51:30] We’ve actually had really long discussions about this in the past, and ultimately, um, and I can’t even speak to where we’ve all landed on the council, but we’ve had several discussions about this and ultimately the council has concluded in my term on the council, uh, that it makes sense to, um, to have individual residents who are most likely to use that street
[51:52] all the time, pay some percentage of that. Um, you know, it’s sort of most cities do it this way. Um, we don’t have to do it this way. It would be possible for us to change it so that the entire city picks up the whole cost.
[52:13] But then that really, um, um, that sort of reassessing the burden of maintaining the street in front of, you know, your house, my house, whatever, onto the entire city, including renters, including business owners, including just literally everyone, instead of, um, putting part of it on the homeowners. I mean, I also had a street assessment last year. My street was redone. It looks beautiful. I’m so happy for it.
[52:35] And we’re on the 3% for ten years plan. And you know, it’s you know, it is what it is. Um, you know, so so I understand your, your question about that and just want to say that it’s something that we take up as a council every couple of years.
[52:52] It’s something that could be changed, but that, um, that’s where we’ve landed. And oh, the other thing that’s come up every single time we consider this is that then everyone who’s just paid an assessment or is paying an assessment is going to see that as completely unfair.
[53:10] If like the year that we start doing. Yeah. So the change over would be really tricky. So. Okay. Yes I’m sorry, I’m still not clear. I’m up to that mic. Okay. Ross answered the question, saying with a hand wave, I feel like like things were added. I guess I’m a little bit more technical.
[53:35] I think our neighborhood would appreciate an actual like report of the things that got added, rather than a letter that just says, oh, we added some things. Um, and, and I would, I would like us to be understanding why we’re using such a low estimate to convince the neighbors and then adding these things afterwards without
[54:00] communication. I appreciate you guys coming out to the to our street. That was that was very nice. I feel like that was a really good thing. But it erodes trust when I don’t see the account of where that 3600 or 300 and 62, 488 went. Okay. Yeah.
[54:26] Maybe, maybe I can try and respond to this one a little bit. I get I get what you’re asking, I think. And so I mean, first and foremost, I mean, in terms of additions, you added the Texas under seal because you got a better deal in that preserve the pavement longer.
[54:39] And then as I recall on this one, there were a couple of pieces of iron and some curb that needed to be redone. Is that correct? Okay. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it’s the iron like castings that you found were bad. And you can’t know that until you get into it.
[54:52] So like the add ons in my view, just and I’m going to put a rough number on it, you’re probably talking 40, $50,000 in total add ons. That like change orders just because. Change orders that showed up after after you dig into it, that’s that’s the changes that he’s talking about.
[55:11] Plus the under seal which does in fact, after we’ve been doing it for several years, extend the life of the pavement. Yes. To your question about the, um, engineer’s estimate what Ross is, Ross is actually really, really good at this.
[55:28] And like when when he came in lo uh, this is the first and probably only time I’ve seen that, um, in the five years that I’ve been here working with Ross. Um, and I think it really was because when you do an estimate, it’s a function of this is how much, um, this is how much asphalt we think we’re going to need, how much
[55:44] concrete we think we’re going to need, how much class five is going to need to get dug out. Guessing you had some quantities that went up based on certain things. And what we do is we put that plan out on the street and then the companies bid on it.
[55:59] And we’re we take the low bid, the lowest responsible bidder. So, you know, this was just one where I think there was too much time between when it was estimated and when it went to the street and prices went up, but it was still better than waiting because that price would be another 10% higher next year.
[56:19] And so I am just asking for transparency, right? I feel like Ross was there answering questions about the 1100, not the extra 700. And so I’m asking for that transparency for this, that, that, that explanation was more than I’ve gotten. But I would like to see that. And there’s no problem sharing the bid sheets.
[56:42] There’s no problem sharing the bills that we paid. We can do all that really easily. There’s there’s nothing, you know, there’s nothing in there that doesn’t explain and isn’t clear. Because $121,000, when you’re citywide doesn’t make as big of a difference. But when you’re just 74 residents, that makes a very big difference.
[57:04] Absolutely, absolutely. We hear you. And thank you so much for coming up. And Ross is happy to share that stuff with you. All right. Anybody else on this project? If not, I’ll close the public hearing and look to the council for discussion questions for Ross or an action. Yes. Councilmember almond.
[57:23] Yeah, I, uh, it’s too bad that this happened. If I were in her shoes and had an the estimate be different than this, I, you know, I wouldn’t like that either. I think we can learn some lessons from it here. And to be more communication is always better than not enough.
[57:44] Uh, that said, you know, I don’t really it’s unfortunate. You know, we can’t really undo and just rework an assessment policy tonight because that’s really what it takes to do anything different. Unfortunately. Um, this is always the worst part of being on the city council is a approving assessments.
[58:06] So I don’t know what else to say other than that. Thank you. Anybody else? Councilmember Johnston. Um, I just had a question. It’s maybe kind of the communication piece here and maybe some of the suggestion, um, if we could when did we get the bids in and when did we choose the bid on this one? Uh, first.
[58:25] Meeting in March would have been the award bid. So I would suggest that maybe one thing that would help in this case like this, it’s still going to be kind of a kick in the teeth to get that higher number.
[58:38] But maybe when we approve the bid, if we see that differential between the estimate that people are expecting and the assessment that we see probably coming, that maybe it would be worth one more letter sent at the time of the actual bid award.
[58:52] I mean, we know that there with the caveat of there’s going to be stuff that we’re going to find, like you said, the stuff underneath the pavement. But and I know that it wouldn’t change anything. You’d still be here paying the same amount, but I’m wondering if that might have made you feel better about, you know, like, okay, at least I have four months to prepare to be not happy, you know, or something like that.
[59:06] And, I mean, I don’t think anybody was doing anything wrong. I’m not saying we didn’t do it wrong, but just might be a policy to look at in the future that maybe if we see that big differential, it would be nice to kind of get a first communication before we get to the assessment point.
[59:20] Just just a thought that we could consider. Okay. Anybody else or a motion. Um, having I’ll move approval. We have a motion by Justin. I’ll second second by Barry. All in favor say aye. Aye aye. Opposed. That passes. Thanks for being here tonight. Uh, next item is d. Uh, public improvement hearing.
[59:50] Authorized preparation of plans and specifications for maintenance of Robert Street sidewalks, snow removal, 2026 2027. Uh, mayor and council. So over the past 20, I would say 20. So probably about 25 years. City’s contract that offers sidewalk snow removal on Robert Street between Mendota Road and Butler Avenue this winter will be no different.
[1:00:10] Um, this this dollar amount is assessed to the property owners on a per foot basis along that corridor. Obviously, we don’t know how much snow we’re going to get. We don’t know how many events we’re going to have and how much snow per event. We’re estimating $170,000, 299.50 for a cost. It comes out to $5.50 per front foot.
[1:00:32] Um, last winter we it was came out to $6.72 a foot, and the winter prior was $4.02 per foot. So again, we’re we bounced around on their. So at this time just looking for conduct a public improvement hearing or plan specifications for the maintenance of Robert Street sidewalk snow removal 2026 2027. Okay. Any questions for Ross? Nothing. I’ll move it.
[1:01:00] I think it’s a public hearing. All right. I’m going to open the public hearing for this. Anybody wishing to speak on this topic, please come forward. Seeing none, I’ll close the public hearing. And I think from had a motion. No council member from. Yep. I’ll second. Second by Justin. All in favor say aye. Aye aye.
[1:01:24] Opposed that passes. Thank you. Ross. Uh, next item is 11 e public improvement hearing. Authorized preparation of plans and specifications for the Park Avenue reconstruction project. 27-1. Thank you, mayor and council. Um, location map for next year’s project. Excuse me. Mac avenue, Robert street to Oakdale avenue. Those are all aware. Heavy industrial roadway.
[1:01:50] Uh, we’re looking to do here for reconstruction. Narrowing the roadway. The narrowing is to allow for a sidewalk on the south side of that street that’s been in the, um, in the works for many years. Heard a lot about that. We’ll get into that here in a minute.
[1:02:07] Um, add some lighting on the south side, some pedestrian crossing enhancements. Um, Saint Paul Regional Water just recently added, uh, they want to replace all the water main on there, which is different from then from our previous, uh, engineering estimate there and no parking.
[1:02:22] We sent out letters to all everybody on there because right now there’s no parking kind of on parts of the road east of Martha Holler. It’s kind of just a mismatch out there. So especially with the narrowing of the roadway, we sent out letters asking if anyone has any opposition to us just posting the whole road. No parking. And I don’t think I’ve ever seen a car out there park.
[1:02:38] Sometimes, you see, um, you know, semis out there idling, waiting for time to get in. But that would totally be acceptable. So here’s what you’re looking at here.
[1:02:58] So currently 44ft wide, we’re doing a drop in the down to 218 foot drive lanes or a typical drive lane for cars between 10 and 12ft. So definitely have a lot of room there. Still for the trucking. Um, gives us a six foot boulevard and six foot concrete walk and all that stays within the right of way, which is kind of the point here to. So we’re not having exorbitant costs for purchasing right of way.
[1:03:13] This is kind of a cool thing that was done. Um, so we did apply for a regional solicitation grant for this project years ago, and we were successful in getting it. So Dakota County, you do these walk audits. So they said they picked a day and they went out to low and back and just see who’s walking.
[1:03:29] So he was using the road because um, and they saw what nine people using it, three of them using mobility devices and one day out there. So we took their obviously took this and added it to our regional solicitation grant application. Um, and we’re doing the same thing. We do the same thing actually on Christensen Avenue.
[1:03:47] We just applied for regional solicitation grant for that for 2029. And we had them do a walk on it too. And it was pretty neat. So pretty cool. So again, pedestrian upgrade. So lights. Um, they have there’s kind of a makeshift crossing down there. Now.
[1:04:04] Um, we’re going to put an actual layer with signs advance warning. And at at location signs for a crosswalk. We’ll do the zebra stripes which would be fit up a little bit. And then Oakdale. Obviously this is a big one here. Getting across Oakdale Avenue. We’ve talked to the county about this.
[1:04:20] Um, got them on board because pedestrians are coming from from over here and there’s apartment buildings there. They’re coming from there. They’re using Wilson back to get to Roberts Street, and the businesses are back and forth all day. You see them year round on that street. So this is great to be able to get them off the roadway.
[1:04:36] So again Saint Paul kind of bumped their ante up here in the last two weeks to about $1.2 million. None of that is assessed. We’ve got some street reconstruction obviously some storm sewer over sizing. We’re looking at state aid. This is a state aid route. They do require. They’ve changed their standards over the years. So, um, spacing of catch basins and such.
[1:04:55] They add that the spread calc. So we have to add more storm through out there. Uh, special assessments. You’re looking at about half a million and regional solicitation grant that we got is $756,800. So we’re looking at $3.5 million project for a perfect assessment of $98 per foot. Uh, we had a public information meeting on August 6th.
[1:05:18] Luckily, three people showed up or would have been on 90 minutes of me and Cody’s staring at each other. Um, public improvement hearing is tonight. And then we go. Plans. We’ll get bidding in February. Looking at a summer construction next year, and be back in October of next year for another assessment.
[1:05:34] So that’s where we sit. Um, asking a public hearing where plans and specs and for loss and block project. Great. Thank you Ross. Any questions for Ross? This is probably one of the oldest projects that we have on the books. From when we started talking about it.
[1:05:51] Um, we’ve had residents here talking about it and begging us to do something. Um, and it’s finally coming through. So we’re excited about that. But any questions? Just a fun comment. Council member. I’m sure the mayor and I, council member from we’re at the tape, Mark the the lights. Uh, groundbreaking.
[1:06:17] A lot of folks from Germany, Spain and the European mind cannot comprehend that this does not already exist. And, and and I tend to, um, you know, empathize with them.
[1:06:33] So I just wanted to, to add that and that, that area, they’ve invested a lot of money and I think this would just this would enhance they’d be able to walk to Robert Street, as the European mind can comprehend. So correct. Just in support. Thank you. Yes. Councilmember almond. The two things, uh, sorry if I missed this. How far is a sidewalk going to go West. Is it going to go all the way to Robert or. Yep, Robert Street to Oakdale Highway. Okay.
[1:06:51] That’s great. And as far as special assessments, I mean, like a regular street assessment or. Yep. So for street construction projects, we assessed 25%, whereas million overlay projects are 35%. So all. Right bigger dollar amount. Okay. I will open the public hearing. Anybody wishing to speak on this topic please come forward. Welcome. Uh.
[1:07:16] Good evening. Thank you for your time. My name is Scott Lambert. I’m president of the Minnesota Automobile Dealers Association, and we actually have our building on the south side of park. And we’re very much in favor of this of this project.
[1:07:31] Uh, there’s a lot of foot traffic up and down the park. It’s never seemed safe to me, especially at night, especially in the winter, to have a sidewalk, I think is a is a good public safety thing to do. I’ve got a very just a small question.
[1:07:45] Uh, we had a bunch of trees on our boulevard in front of our building, and a storm came through. If you’re a few years ago and wiped them out, and we replaced them, we got rid of them and replaced them in our cost. Uh, it looks to me like from the plans, those trees are doomed again.
[1:07:59] So is the city going to replace our trees, or do I need to worry about this again? Ourselves? Again? Not. Not against this project. We’re fine. Well. I just wondering. The trees have a significant value, especially if you’ve if there are several years old. We want we want the building to look nice.
[1:08:16] We want to have a nice curb appeal as people come by. Okay. Ross, would you like to address that one? Yep. So on our project, we replace trees 1 to 1. We take a tree, replace. The tree. Oh, okay. Trees in the right way. We’re talking about trees. In the right of way. Yes. Otherwise, if they weren’t. Or wouldn’t you.
[1:08:29] Know the ones you’re going to take out? Yeah. So replace 1 to 1. Um, usually an engineer. Then the project would come out. We’ll just take our location out and make sure that you guys want to work in those locations. All right? I’m sorry I missed your public meeting. I got the notice too late.
[1:08:42] But no, that’s a great question. And it’s good for us to be repeating that in the public. Right? That’s all I had. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Anybody else please come forward. Good evening Council. Good evening mayor. It’s nice. How are you doing again? Um.
[1:09:02] Thank you for those that were able to attend our groundbreaking ceremony. So, uh, for the record, my name is Ryan Lorraine. I’m here representing lights today. I’m head of the operations at the facility. Uh, down on, um, Martha Lane. So we appreciate the work that Ross has put into this plan.
[1:09:18] It was nice to see some evolution with the plan and the inclusion of a zebra walk. Uh, that would actually create a safer crosswalk for folks that are trying to transit from Martha over to that sidewalk on, um.
[1:09:37] Uh, Logan Bok, uh, am here to actually formally request that we maybe expand our vision a little bit for sidewalk safety, for the the folks that are transiting, uh, Mark Lawler. Um, so given the way the assessments work and kind of the discussion in the last agenda topic, I know I’m here advocating for a higher assessment, but I think if if people were to spend a little bit of time on Martha and look
[1:09:55] at the the people that are transiting the roadway, uh, a lot of times they are using motor motorized support. So similar to the picture that was, uh, presented for the the Park project.
[1:10:13] Um, I think a lot of residents from the residential building up towards Wentworth actually transit down, uh, Martha to lower them back to then make it to target and the other shopping areas. Um, and if you look at an aerial view of, of Martha or the LTZ property that runs along, Martha is the only property that actually doesn’t have a sidewalk today.
[1:10:31] Um, so if this is the the form in which the project plans are moved to resolution and approved to proceed, we’d ask the council to consider including a sidewalk, uh, extension up the taller, uh, path as well. And we know that that will probably also be disruptive to our trees.
[1:10:49] Um, and we’re prepared to to work with the city on how we can accommodate replacement costs for those trees. The one final question about the zebra walk, uh, or zebra crosswalk was that there’s, um, I don’t know the technical terms, but I think an advanced warning, um, which to me is, if I understand
[1:11:09] correctly, is just a sign, um, or a placard similar to what we have there. Now, I think if you look at the traffic that typically frequents low and back and the rate of speed that a lot of people travel down that street, I don’t know that a standard pedestrian sign is really doing the trick.
[1:11:27] I know we don’t have a zebra walk right now, but when you step into the road, it’s almost as if people accelerate. Um, because now there’s somebody trying to to cross the street. So would also ask the city to consider having an advanced warning system that actually has the strobe lights.
[1:11:43] I understand those come at an added cost, uh, and might require different maintenance considerations. Um, and on behalf of lights, what I propose is that we can evaluate some cost sharing strategies for the installation of the sign.
[1:12:05] Um, and depending on what the costs are, we might be able to help support some funding of of that additional, uh, lighting system just to provide safer transit for the pedestrians. Right. Well, thank you first for being here. Now that you’re standing in front of us, I’m going to say thank you so much for investing. And you’re for lights investing. Uh, in in the city of West Saint Paul.
[1:12:23] I just can’t thank you enough for that. And I think this we’ve done it before where we’re doing a project here. And as long as we’re here and we’re out there, we can add. So I’m going to advocate for that as well.
[1:12:37] So I would like to push staff to look at what it would take to add a sidewalk during this project, uh, along a path to connect it, because I believe there’s a part of Martella that has a walkway in front of the, uh, built the multi-family housing there. Um, so it would just be a matter of completing that sidewalk all the way down to Waltham Park.
[1:12:56] And so I’m going to advocate for that. Whatever staff needs to do to put something together for the council to look at. Um, I would push hard for that. Yeah.
[1:13:14] I agree, I definitely appreciate your thought on the crosswalks where Maria Avenue has one of those, um, where it crosses into Dodge Nature Center, and it’s hugely valuable for the driver, I think, but also for the pedestrian to feel safe crossing. But the driver, just to be alerted of that, it makes you self aware of what’s going on there. And so.. Absolutely. Ross, what do you say to that? Um, I’m happy. to have you to look at it all.
[1:13:34] Um, obviously with the flashing beacons, it becomes one of those things where you want to take a good look at it, because it’s kind of like putting all the stops at every signal, every signal for we stop we had in the city.
[1:13:45] And by the end of the day, no one’s gonna pay attention to it. Not to say this isn’t a case for but 30 miles an hour in the in. The sightlines out there are really good. Um, the volumes are fairly low, 3500 to 5000 vehicles per day. For as far as an RFP type.
[1:14:05] Um, functionality, it’s it’s doesn’t quite meet those barns, but words are kind of their words, right? They’re kind of wishy washy. So like you said, Marie has one, um. That’s effectively Oakdale I think would certainly benefit from that’s. A that’s Connie Rondell. Connie, this is not meeting Connie Warren. Sorry. Not even close. Let us know what we need to do to call the county.
[1:14:20] But that one, that one to me, because the people from the sanctuary are, you know, not saying, but they’re moving a little slower, and it’s, uh, the cars are fast. I’m just. Telling you, the county gets, uh, increased probably daily for one of those running throughout the county. So they have to make the call about $20,000 ballpark to install.
[1:14:40] Okay. And the maintenance is kind of high. They’re not the greatest for some reason. Maybe someone make a better one. Maybe Jeremy can help us out. Oh, we should get there. Um, definitely. I can bring those costs back to you. All right. I look at the sidewalk.
[1:14:55] Only concern with the sidewalk is the graves out there. If you look at back of curb to their, um, to where the parking lot is, it’s fairly steep. And I believe there’s a future project of a of a reconstruct of the parking lot. Possibly.
[1:15:12] Whereas that might be a good time to if you have when you have changing grades out there, if they’re dropping grades now we’re gonna have sidewalk slip up here. That’s not gonna. It’s just it’d be a much easier time to build it with a ripping the whole parking lot. But anyway. Okay.
[1:15:24] Um, so maybe to speak to that point real quick, we have included that in our proposed budget for 2027. Uh, anticipating that the sidewalk project really happening at the same time. Now, I will say that’s a proposed budget. It still needs to go through several more layers, including Germany. Um, so. You don’t want to commit us what you’re saying.
[1:15:40] But that it’s included. But I think, you know, the way we’re looking at it, this is all of those construction activities are really integrated.
[1:15:56] Um, so we’re trying to, you know, make sure it makes sense to do as much construction in that area and minimize the other disruptions to, to the other businesses in that area as well, and try to prevent multiple year projects. So. Okay. Well, thank you for coming here tonight. Appreciate it. And it’s definitely, um, I can speak on behalf of myself. I would love to have a sidewalk along there. Um, these guys say no to sidewalks all the time. I don’t know why. Whatever.
[1:16:14] No, I’m kidding. I’m kidding. Um, but, yeah. Ross, you have your kind of what we want to do. All right. Um, anybody else on this topic? If not, I’ll close the public hearing. Look to the council. Any questions for Ross or a motion? Yes. I had.
[1:16:31] A couple of things I wanted to say. Sure. I’ve been long known for hating the sidewalk to nowhere problem, so I am hugely in favor of getting that sidewalk connection right there, because I think it’s very frustrating.
[1:16:45] And I just wanted to mention, as somebody who kind of got obsessed with sidewalks, because being a business owner on Thompson that used to not have sidewalks, I really appreciate both of you for having the care and concern for the people of our city.
[1:17:00] I think sometimes people forget that a lot of times businesses are invested in this sort of thing, and sometimes it seems like we’re the ones that say no to everything and don’t want added costs. But, I mean, I just want to commend both of you. I know that feeling of looking out, what was my, you know, window where I’d watch people go from the bus stop to the apartments, walking in a snowy street.
[1:17:14] And so I love it when I hear that from our business community, because it strikes close to my heart, because that’s part of the reason I’m actually sitting here now is because I was seeing that out the front window of my old location. So I really appreciate that.
[1:17:27] Um, on the flashing sign, I’m just not quite clear. Is that the one the the where’s. That look, But where is that at? Uh, crossing. North. To be at lights crossing is they have workers across the street. Oh, okay. Okay, okay. Because I was going to say so. It’s not where the road’s being narrowed. This would be on crossing Merthyr. Crossing.
[1:17:49] Okay. It’s where Martha T’s okay. Got it, got it. Because one thing I was going to mention is that as we’ve covered, and it was counterintuitive to me until I was up here, that street narrowing will reduce the speeds almost every time we see it.
[1:18:05] It greatly reduces the speeds because people feel like they can’t have a shot. And so they do slow down because they’re like worried they’re gonna, you know, cross into the other lane or whatever. So I do think you’ll see some traffic calming just from that notable narrowing of the street.
[1:18:20] Um, I’m not opposed to the idea of the flashing signals, but I’d be interested to see if we see a considerable reduction on speeds on there, because that’s a pretty I mean, it’s being narrowed quite a bit, right? I set it up to 18 for travel language or very wide, used to a 10 to 12, but I don’t. Sure. Okay.
[1:18:35] Yeah it’s a straight shot okay. Never mind. Yeah. Let’s let’s keep looking at the flashing lights then. I think that’s going to the flashing. Yeah. Yeah they’re solar right. So so they can we can add them later right. Yep. Okay. Thank you. Uh, do we have a motion? I’ll make a motion. We have a motion by Justin.
[1:18:54] Second, Second, by golly. All in favor, say aye. Aye aye. Opposed. That passes. Uh, next item is item 12. General business 12 a is conditional use permit to allow an additional drive through. Additional drive thru lane at 125 Marie Avenue East, which is Culver’s, correct. Thank you, Mr.
[1:19:18] Mayor Council, this one is pretty straightforward. Uh, Culver’s has applied for a cup to add a second drive thru lane at their location here on, uh, Maria Avenue. Uh, so obviously Culver’s has operated one drive thru since they opened up back in 2003.
[1:19:38] Um, in order to accommodate this second drive thru lane, it does require the removal of six parking stalls, but that does not drop them below the minimum parking requirements for the site. So they’re good there. Um, this project does also include some discussions with the city engineering department on some changes to the median, which I can point out here in a second.
[1:19:52] So it’s a little hard to see, but currently there’s six stalls, east west stalls located here. They’re going to remove those and put in a raised median which will allow for this second drive thru lane to come south of the existing drive thru lane.
[1:20:08] So two menu boards, two drive thru lanes, which is pretty common now for for drive thru operations. Both make their order and then combine into one lane as they come around the building. In terms of which is separate from this application.
[1:20:27] We’ve also had conversations about, um, changing this opening on Murray Avenue to this location here versus this location that would allow for, full movement access at this location, which works out better for the drive thru lane. So just heads up on that. Uh, the Planning Commission did review this last week at the Planning Commission meeting, held the public hearing, no comment from the public.
[1:20:47] We had a couple of comments, um, discussion points as noted here from the Planning Commission, but they ultimately recommended to approve the copy purchase recommendation with a vote of 7 to 0. And with that, staff is requesting the council approved the copy to the seven listed conditions. Well, my shout out to Ross and the engineering profession.
[1:21:05] I would have never thought you could add with the space there, but the way they did it, I think is pretty creative. Um, my biggest concern was making sure there was enough parking because already there’s limited parking in that. When it’s busy. Um, especially with the triangle shaped parking lot.
[1:21:22] But, um, you could assure me that their requirements are being met. Correct. And we’re good to go on that. For that part. Yes. Council member. And they’re okay with it, too? Yes. Okay. The reduction in parking? Yes. Okay. Just want to make sure. I would assume so, but I don’t do that anymore.
[1:21:43] So we have the applicant here. It looks like it was. It was their, uh, plans that they submitted to the city that include the removal of the six stalls. So. Yes. All right. Any questions for Ben or any questions for the applicant? Because they’re here.
[1:22:00] Do you want to come forward a quick. Want to make this trip worth it for you to come in here and see the council? Um. It’s no birthday party, but. Hi, my name is Maria Veitch. Um, 125 Marie Avenue East. I’m second generation Culver’s owner, so my dad started it.
[1:22:18] Um, now it’s my brother, my sister and I that I’ve taken over since when dad started. The business model has changed significantly. We’re not. We do things much different. Um, and I really think that this is going to this the ability to move traffic. We’re doing a million overlay. So many of the things that you say, if you’re addressing one, you all the things come into consideration.
[1:22:38] So we’re going to be ripping it up anyways. And I said this is the time. I know when we started they didn’t have the median as it is now, and they had built it. But we sit and watch kids come from across the street from school, and we watch how people use our lot.
[1:22:52] And I think we’re willing to put the money in to make it right. So we did the traffic study. Um, put a lot of money into we’re we’re not going anywhere. I hope someday my kids take over the business. I want to make it the best thing it can be.
[1:23:06] So that’s why I want to shout out to your team. You have a great team. Thank you. Your employees are amazing. I love them. Great job with them. Yeah, my business partner is a second generation.
[1:23:20] Her mom was a general manager or a assistant manager for me, and now she’s entered the ownership with us. Um, so yes, I agree. I love my job, and it’s all because the people I work with. But yeah. And to have to have a place off of Robert Street takes a little extra, right, for marketing and whatever, but you guys do a fantastic job. So thank you.
[1:23:35] Appreciate that. Yeah. Thank you. Any questions. Yes. I don’t have a I don’t have a question anymore since you addressed the parking one. But yeah I just want to thank you for being a good community partner as well because I know we still help with fundraising. Um, and not everyone does that anymore after Covid.
[1:23:51] So we’re always open. If you know anyone, send them our way. So. All right. There you go. Get that. Yes, Councilmember Johnson. Just one quick question. Um, I know that there was the striping that’s changed to curbing. That’s okay with you guys. You’re so the striping there.
[1:24:05] We actually have a curb that that was a Covid. We were backed up I down Marie. We had 30 cars stacked during Covid trying to get in. Um that was a holy crap. This parking lot is a mess. We added that curb to try to like the part.
[1:24:21] It’s a difficult parking spot. Sharing it with the water tower, trying to accommodate all the different things. Um. But we keep making it work. So yeah, so that’s not an issue for you. It’s not at all. In fact. No, I think this is really our civil engineer was here at they they do great work.
[1:24:38] Um, great ideas on how to make, you know, traffic flow better. So safer for everyone. Came a shout out. He. I didn’t even know he was here. Yeah. There you go. He’s like, that’s cool. Yeah. They do great work. Yeah. Great job on that. So that’s a tough parking lot. So you. Guys appreciate it.
[1:24:52] Thank you. This will be great for you guys. So yes Councilman. The last thing I was just gonna say I know that you all went through some challenging things the past couple months. I know there someone is. Chief. Chief knows exactly what I’m talking about. We regular callers. Yeah.
[1:25:09] And someone set a fire to the building, and then I know something else happened. Car run through the building? Yeah. Fire. And so. When I. Saw this on the agenda as a way to get more people through the door, I was really relieved. Uh. We’re staying open.
[1:25:23] Yes, that you’re staying open and that you can find a way to get some more people. Through the door. I mean, I love it, like, I come down to the station, I’m like, hi, me. Again. You’re like. Fire chief.
[1:25:37] His mom was a manager for at Savage for me for a long time. So like, a lot of connections, like I said, we’ve grown up doing this. This is kind of what we do, um, and really like it. So staff here is great. Always. Yeah. This has been a really good process for us. So great. Thank you. All right. Well thank you. Appreciate it.
[1:25:52] Uh, with that, do we have a motion. Move approval. Second. We have a motion. And a second. All in favor, say aye. Opposed? All right, that passes. Congratulations. Thank you. All right, uh, with the next one, uh, one and final, uh, 12 B site plan for a parking lot expansion at 995 Dot road. Zach’s auto.
[1:26:15] All right, Mr. Mayor. Council. So tonight, staff is looking for council to approve the site plan for the parking lot expansion at Zach’s Auto. Subject to recommended conditions. Uh, this is just to note that this was, uh, cross contingent on separate variance application approval. Um, I think the next slide. Well, I’ll get to that in a second.
[1:26:35] So just providing a little overview on what’s happening here. So this is all related to the Smith dot intersection realignment project. Um the existing parking lot is kind of outlined in the orange triangle here. The previous right of way.
[1:26:53] Um, obviously, uh, ran along that edge of that, um, existing parking lot with the realignment of, uh, DoD, uh, to the east, it opened up some vacated right of way. So the city and, um, Zach’s entered into an agreement last year before the project that the city would deed this portion of vacated right of way to Zach’s in exchange for Zach’s closing
[1:27:14] down, uh, the southern access to DoD. So it improved a lot of, uh, potential issues with that access drive and proximity to the intersection. Um, so we work through that agreement, and this is part of that.
[1:27:31] So the application tonight is to approve the expansion of that parking lot, which is outlined here with curbing. It will allow them to almost double the size of their parking lot, put in some conforming parking stalls while still allowing for maneuverability to access the garage bays, etc.. So as I mentioned, there’s a variance.
[1:27:48] Also, since this parking lot is considered legal nonconforming in order to expand that parking lot in front of the building, uh, variance was required and the Committee of Adjustments approved that last week by a vote of seven to nothing in terms of review of the site plan itself, uh, public hearing was held.
[1:28:04] No one from the public spoke or called in on the item. Uh, the one key discussion point and maybe scroll back here, uh, was related to this cutout here, which is designed as a grass kind of low depression area. Um, currently the existing parking lot and the planned parking lot essentially drains and flows to the southeast.
[1:28:25] Um, so, um, the city recommended plan was to keep this as green space, allow that water to infiltrate in that area with that low depression. Uh, to stop water going into the the Smith Avenue right of way into the catch basin there.
[1:28:43] So there’s discussion at Planning Commission whether or not it made sense to keep this all paved, even though we’d have to hash that area, because with parking stalls lined up along the south side, here in east side here, you could not access that corner.
[1:29:01] Um, so again, in order to allow for that infiltration and to help with that, stormwater staff recommended that depression area. So, um, the Planning Commission ultimately voted seven zero to recommend approval, but they did add a recommended condition that the southeast corner of that area I’m talking about, that green space. Uh, be re-examined to minimize maintenance and drainage footprint.
[1:29:22] After discussing this further with engineering, again, it’s just basically a little lower depression to allow that water to infiltrate. So, um, based on that, staff is recommending that council approved the site plan, subject to those three original conditions, uh, as recommended by staff. Okay. Thank you again.
[1:29:42] Another shout out to Planning Commission for vetting this and going through and and uh, so great job on this and all these projects actually. So any questions for Ben on this one. This one we kind of knew was coming down. Um, so no questions for you. All right. I would look for a motion move. approve second motion by Barry, second by Justin.
[1:30:02] All in favor, say aye. Aye aye. Opposed. Uh, passes. Uh, no other business. Um, I would look for a motion to adjourn tonight’s regular meeting. So moved. Second, we have a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye. Aye aye. Opposed? All right. Meeting is