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Planning Board, I call to order. Tuesday, August 4th,

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2026, at Westbrook High School, Room 114,

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125 Travelor Street.

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This meeting will be offered as a hybrid meeting accommodating both in-person

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and remote participation. The link and phone number to join the meeting

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through Zoom is located on the Planning Board agenda, which can be found on the

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City of Westbrook website,

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westbrookmaine.com/agendacenter.

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Where public comment is permitted, members of the public attending remotely will

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also have the opportunity to provide remote testimony.

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If you wish to speak during a public hearing or a public comment,

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use your raise hand function through Zoom or dial nine

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on your phone when instructed by the Planning Board chair.

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Comments will only be accepted during a public hearing or

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public comment period and should remain specific to the application as being

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discussed.

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With that, roll call, Jenna, please.

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Karen Axelson?

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Here.

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Jason Frazier?

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Here.

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Nancy Lichochapies?

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Here.

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Kevin Price?

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Here.

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Robin Tanebaum?

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Here.

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Oriana Farnham?

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Here.

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Lucas Shrake?

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Here.

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Larry McWilliams?

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Here.

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And John Turcotte.

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Here.

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Thank you.

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With that, we'll go into regular business.

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Orlando, can you read the first item in the record, please?

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Item number 24-000632:

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Site Plan Approval Extension Request, 4 and 7 Kitter Lane, Quaker

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Lane Associates, LLC. The applicant is requesting an extension on their

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site plan approval in a phased project schedule.

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Tax Map 032, Lot 107, and Tax Map

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032, Lot 109, Zoned City Center District.

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Thank you. With that, can we have the applicant presentation, please?

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Good evening. My name is Craig Burtis with Acorn Engineering.

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Looks like I have the wrong project up here.

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I don't know if I necessarily need presentation slides tonight.

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As mentioned, this is for a site plan approval

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extension. It was originally approved last year and then

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amended in September. So the client is looking to actually

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start construction this fall,

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and he's looking at performing the work in a phased approach.

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Phase one will include the initial site

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setup,

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which will involve demolition of

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existing buildings, pavement, gravel, utilities,

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installation of all the erosion control that's shown on

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the civil plan drawings,

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and then also installing a lot of the heavy utility work.

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That includes

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installing the conduit for the gas main,

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the sanitary sewer connections, as well as

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some of the three-phase electrical work.

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Also included in the phase one is all the

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main storm drain runs. So there's storm drain runs that go from west

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to east across the site, as well as replacement of,

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there's a 48-inch pipe that runs right underneath Dana

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Street out toward Presumpscot River.

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So phase one includes replacement of that pipe, that 48-inch

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pipe, as well as a lot of the main storm drain runs.

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Not included in phase one are all the

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storm tree filters and the rain garden.

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So those will be constructed in phase two.

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So in your packets, there are construction cost estimates

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for both phase one and phase two. Phase two is anticipated

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to start next spring,

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weather dependent, as soon as the site contractor can get in there.

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Likely March, maybe April. So they're looking to start the phase two

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next year. So there's a lot more work in phase two.

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And then

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the erosion control will have to be

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reevaluated in spring. So as part of the phase one, they'll

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install the erosion control. There'll be a lot of double layers of silt

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fence installed along Presumpscot River.

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That will likely sit during the wintertime while the site is dormant.

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And then when they come to the site next spring, they'll have to revisit the

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erosion control, and then the city will likely have to do

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inspections to make sure that's up to par, and then they'll go ahead and initiate

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phase two.

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We understand that there's some work before construction starts this fall,

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including the pre-con meeting. There's still some minor

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site plan changes out there that Acorn Engineering needs to

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address, including depicting how the river walk connects

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over to the Saccarappa Park parcel.

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So we intend to do that, and construction is supposed to start this

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fall. So I'll leave it to the planning board.

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I'm here to respond to any questions that you have. Thank you.

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Thank you, Craig.

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Staff response?

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Yep. So as Craig stated, this started with a site plan approval extension

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request because the approval would have been set to expire in September.

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But then with that, in talking with the development team

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and coordinating with the Saccarappa Park project, which is also

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working towards getting ready to start, there was a desire to phase the

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development out. How the conditions are currently written, if they were to start

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with the utility work this fall, they would have to put in the full performance

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guarantee for the overall project, as well as have the site work contractor

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to do the pre-con and things that they weren't necessarily

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ready for now, although there's benefit for getting the

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demolition done now and the utility work in the Saccarappa Park side of the

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project in coordination with that side.

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So that was the impetus to the phased approach,

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was to separate that out so they would provide the performance

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guarantee for just that site work, be able to proceed with that in the fall,

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and then have the full performance guarantee for the overall project when they're

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ready to move forward in the

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Spring, ideally.

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So with this, as Craig said, you have the separated

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cost estimates in your packet. We also slightly amended the conditions

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to allow for a call-out for the commencement of work in phase one and of

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work in phase two. But there weren't any substantive changes

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to the conditions other than what would be required before the commencement of each

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one of those phases.

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Thank you.

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This is open to the public comment.

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Do we have anybody in the public that wishes to speak on this issue?

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I see none. Any through Zoom?

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If there's anyone participating via Zoom and would like to speak, please raise

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your hand.

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I'm seeing none.

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Okay. With that, I'll close the public comment.

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Any

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board members, any comments?

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Through you to the planner. The amendment from last September, that was just an

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amendment. That was, in itself, an extension, correct?

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That was just an amendment to the subdivision, but with that, it inherently kind of

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restarted the clock-

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Okay

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... for when the 12 months is. But yes.

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Okay, so this is their first extension request?

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Yes.

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All right, thank you. I think everyone gets one extension. It's a big project.

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I don't have a problem with it.

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Thank you, John.

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Anyone else?

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Okay, I see none. The only thing I did see, just by looking at some

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of the paper, I'm still learning all the grading and the underneath work and

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so forth, but what I did notice was on the 48-inch pipes, they're now going to

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plastic-

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Yes

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... versus concrete. How long has something like that been going on?

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And I guess it's more cost-effective.

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Yeah. It's more cost-effective. It lasts just as

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long. It's easier to handle on the site.

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It's easier to just move around the site. The concrete pipe, it's a lot heavier.

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So yes, a lot of the bigger pipe now is the HDPE, the

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high-density polyethylene plastic.

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Yeah, I saw that. I was interested in that just because it looks like it'd be a lot

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easier to work, and it does have the same lifespan as concrete, so.

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Yes.

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All right, cool. That's my only question, so yeah, I have no other problems with

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that.

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With that, we have a motion on page two

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of our memos.

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If somebody would be so kind.

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Mr. Chair?

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Yes, John.

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I move to approve the request from Quake Lane Associates for a one-year extension

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in phased project schedule on the site plan approval, dated April 15th, 2025,

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and amended September 2nd, 2025, for the demolition and redevelopment

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of the parcels located at the end of Kidder Lane to construct a

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multi-story, mixed-use complex to include 110 residential units,

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a commercial use, and a westerly expansion of the Riverwalk Trail

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located on the parcels identified as four and seven,

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Kidder Lane, Tax Map 32, Lots 107 and 109,

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Zoned City Center District, Village Review Overlay Zone, and Shoreland

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Zone. All previously approved findings of fact and conclusions of approval

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associated with the September 2nd, 2025, approval

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remain applicable. Wow. Approval

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also includes the following conditions, as stated on page two through four of this

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staff memo dated July 31st, 2026, which are adopted in

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support of this approval.

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Thank you. Can I get a second, please?

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Second.

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Thank you, Kevin. Roll call, Jenna.

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Robin Tannenbaum?

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Yes. Oh, sorry.

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Nancy Litwak Abes?

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Well, so formerly, I recused myself from this project, but it's an

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extension, so I don't know, do I vote or just recuse?

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If you feel that you can be impartial to the extension and the board is

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okay with that, then you can stay on.

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I'm in support of the extension.

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No problem. Thank you.

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Jason Frazier?

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Yes.

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Karen Axelson?

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Yes.

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Kevin Price?

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Yes.

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Lucas Shrake?

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Yes.

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Oriana Farnum?

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Yes.

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John Turcotte?

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Yes.

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And Larry McWilliams.

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Yes.

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Seeing unanimous. Thank you. With that, we go into new business.

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Orlando, can you-

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Thank you

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... read the next item in the record, please?

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Item number 26-000527, site

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plan, 3 Saunders Way, WWS Properties, LLC.

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The applicant is requesting a renovation and an expansion to the existing Bill

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Dodge Kia automobile dealership, including a 2,160

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square foot addition to the service area and a 3,850

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square foot addition to the showroom.

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Tax Map 042B, Lot 113, Zone

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Gateway Commercial, use automobile dealership repair service.

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Thank you. With that, applicant presentation.

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All right. Good evening. It's Dustin Roma with DM Roma Consulting

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Engineers.

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There we go.

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I'm here tonight representing WWS Properties for this proposed

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expansion at the Bill Dodge Kia auto facility on 3

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Saunders Way.

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Just trying to get organized here.

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So we were here as a sketch plan workshop item

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at the last meeting, and since then, really just been working

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closely with Kia on a review of the proposed

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renovations. This building is one of the buildings on

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the complex here, which is essentially one of the older buildings that's there,

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or the one that

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is

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most in need of renovations as far as

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kind of a new facelift on these projects.

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So we're excited to be able to work with Kia and Bill Dodge to kind of make some

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improvements to this one building facility here.

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Pretty much all of the improvements are really the main part that you

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see as you come into the property. So it's the sales and

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service area that's kind of

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For

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right in the front of the building there.

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So that's going to be the location where most of these improvements are being made.

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We do have a small service area that's being expanded

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on the backside of the building to kind of square off the structure.

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And then we'll be doing some pavement improvements around the perimeter of the site

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as well.

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We'll be putting in some new vehicle charging stations for the electric

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vehicles outside the building.

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And then we've got some improved landscaping areas that'll take

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place at the transition between this property and the Infinity

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property.

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So we've got some landscaping improvements there.

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And then other than that, the major circulation components of the

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00:13:09,988 --> 00:13:11,408
site are pretty much unchanged.

259
00:13:12,508 --> 00:13:16,488
This property has access from essentially two

260
00:13:16,608 --> 00:13:20,368
adjacent building areas, so there's a site access

261
00:13:20,448 --> 00:13:20,788
from

262
00:13:22,828 --> 00:13:25,348
either side, and that's going to remain.

263
00:13:26,868 --> 00:13:27,748
Let's go here.

264
00:13:29,508 --> 00:13:33,048
So there's a site plan there. So as you can see, this particular property by itself

265
00:13:33,088 --> 00:13:35,928
doesn't have its own curb cut, but there's curb cuts on either side.

266
00:13:36,928 --> 00:13:40,908
And we've just had some discussions with city staff just to make sure

267
00:13:40,948 --> 00:13:44,478
everyone was comfortable with the vehicle circulation around the building, and

268
00:13:45,008 --> 00:13:46,948
really nothing substantial will change there.

269
00:13:48,208 --> 00:13:52,048
Additional sidewalk areas and concrete

270
00:13:52,108 --> 00:13:55,528
vehicle display areas will be kind of prominent in the front part of the

271
00:13:55,588 --> 00:13:56,668
site.

272
00:13:58,008 --> 00:14:00,498
And as far as the lighting on the facility,

273
00:14:01,308 --> 00:14:05,168
there's one existing light pole that will be removed

274
00:14:06,528 --> 00:14:08,108
to make room for the building expansion,

275
00:14:09,008 --> 00:14:12,528
and there's a second light pole that'll be located inside the

276
00:14:13,428 --> 00:14:16,968
landscaped island area that we're retaining, so that light pole will

277
00:14:17,388 --> 00:14:17,808
remain.

278
00:14:19,188 --> 00:14:21,588
So no real changes to the lighting.

279
00:14:21,628 --> 00:14:24,948
We're not upgrading any of the fixtures or anything on the pole-mounted lighting in

280
00:14:25,008 --> 00:14:27,338
the facility, so it's going to basically stay as it is.

281
00:14:29,348 --> 00:14:32,528
The last item that we've been working with the city on is the signage.

282
00:14:32,888 --> 00:14:34,208
We do have

283
00:14:35,898 --> 00:14:37,888
a updated signage that'll happen.

284
00:14:37,948 --> 00:14:41,528
The Kia logo has changed, so updated

285
00:14:41,788 --> 00:14:44,507
signage on the building as well as a new pylon sign.

286
00:14:44,548 --> 00:14:47,568
So there was some language in the memo which just

287
00:14:47,648 --> 00:14:48,808
outlined

288
00:14:50,948 --> 00:14:54,688
our request to basically replace that existing pylon sign that's out front with a

289
00:14:54,728 --> 00:14:58,588
new sign. So those details, again, will be worked

290
00:14:58,668 --> 00:15:02,518
out through code enforcement. As far as the size of the sign, what's allowed, we've

291
00:15:02,548 --> 00:15:04,828
got a few options that we're working through with Kia now.

292
00:15:06,408 --> 00:15:10,328
And we're satisfied that whatever sign we choose, again, we'll just make

293
00:15:10,388 --> 00:15:12,168
sure we work through codes and that it's

294
00:15:14,168 --> 00:15:14,948
no larger than

295
00:15:16,008 --> 00:15:16,908
is permitted. So,

296
00:15:19,408 --> 00:15:22,528
with that, I've got some additional graphics here just showing building elevations

297
00:15:22,568 --> 00:15:26,308
that I can skip to if we need to. Otherwise, happy to

298
00:15:26,317 --> 00:15:28,488
answer your questions if you have any. Thank you.

299
00:15:29,448 --> 00:15:30,148
Thank you, Dustin.

300
00:15:31,488 --> 00:15:32,018
Staff comment?

301
00:15:33,428 --> 00:15:35,158
Nothing to add from Dustin's presentation.

302
00:15:35,388 --> 00:15:38,428
Okay, thank you. With this is also a public comment.

303
00:15:38,668 --> 00:15:42,518
Does anybody from the public wish to speak on this

304
00:15:42,548 --> 00:15:45,388
addition? I see none. Any through Zoom?

305
00:15:46,748 --> 00:15:50,188
If there's anyone participating via Zoom and would like to speak, please raise your

306
00:15:50,228 --> 00:15:50,488
hand.

307
00:15:52,348 --> 00:15:52,908
I'm seeing none.

308
00:15:53,088 --> 00:15:55,628
Okay, thank you. With that, I'll close the public comment.

309
00:15:56,808 --> 00:15:58,048
Any board comments?

310
00:16:01,708 --> 00:16:02,328
Seeing none.

311
00:16:03,128 --> 00:16:03,608
I've got a question.

312
00:16:03,648 --> 00:16:04,808
Yep, sorry. Go ahead, Robin.

313
00:16:04,928 --> 00:16:07,448
Thanks. And Dustin, I remember asking about this last time.

314
00:16:08,248 --> 00:16:11,848
Planting plans, and I know there's not a lot of

315
00:16:11,948 --> 00:16:15,708
area for that, but there's that little corner area that I think already

316
00:16:15,768 --> 00:16:17,468
exists, or actually maybe it's new.

317
00:16:17,588 --> 00:16:21,228
Can you talk about any plans for planting or any street trees?

318
00:16:21,648 --> 00:16:21,768
Yep.

319
00:16:22,688 --> 00:16:24,508
So we do have existing

320
00:16:25,348 --> 00:16:27,148
street trees that run along Saunders.

321
00:16:27,968 --> 00:16:31,648
But yeah, this area right here in this front corner is really kind of our prime

322
00:16:31,768 --> 00:16:33,648
spot to be able to

323
00:16:34,828 --> 00:16:36,578
add some decorative landscaping.

324
00:16:36,688 --> 00:16:40,408
So we do have some trees and shrubs and perennials

325
00:16:40,748 --> 00:16:44,408
in that landscaped area there, which right now it's pretty much grass.

326
00:16:44,448 --> 00:16:48,388
There's a few just evergreen shrubs, no color or anything.

327
00:16:48,508 --> 00:16:51,308
So it looks a little different. When you look at the Infinity building, which is

328
00:16:51,348 --> 00:16:54,148
one of the newer ones that we've done, we've got daylilies and color and things

329
00:16:54,158 --> 00:16:57,968
around the perimeter, so we're trying to kind of match that in the front of the

330
00:16:58,008 --> 00:16:58,488
building here.

331
00:17:04,209 --> 00:17:08,108
Thank you. With the sign, I know on the board or on the

332
00:17:08,128 --> 00:17:11,408
building itself, the front, is that going to be lit up, the Kia s- the...

333
00:17:11,668 --> 00:17:11,798
Because-

334
00:17:11,929 --> 00:17:12,058
Yeah

335
00:17:12,248 --> 00:17:14,308
... is it already now? Because I don't

336
00:17:16,088 --> 00:17:17,348
go down that direction, but

337
00:17:18,168 --> 00:17:22,108
on the side of the building, so that it just looks like it would look nice

338
00:17:22,168 --> 00:17:24,949
if it was lit up at night, especially with the glass in the front.

339
00:17:25,048 --> 00:17:25,558
So I didn't know

340
00:17:26,368 --> 00:17:28,908
if that was going to be illuminated all the time.

341
00:17:28,918 --> 00:17:28,918
Yep.

342
00:17:28,948 --> 00:17:29,188
Okay.

343
00:17:29,248 --> 00:17:32,688
Yeah, they'll be internally illuminated, especially it's very helpful in the winter

344
00:17:32,728 --> 00:17:34,848
months and stuff when it's dark out at 4:30, and...

345
00:17:36,218 --> 00:17:37,648
Oh, yeah. No, the building looks nice.

346
00:17:38,508 --> 00:17:41,128
It's going to be a nice addition to

347
00:17:42,128 --> 00:17:42,948
the upgrade. So,

348
00:17:44,288 --> 00:17:45,888
with that, we have a motion

349
00:17:47,928 --> 00:17:49,388
on page...

350
00:17:52,368 --> 00:17:53,028
Mr. Chair?

351
00:17:53,088 --> 00:17:53,268
Yes.

352
00:17:53,688 --> 00:17:57,028
I move that the planning board approves the site plan application for

353
00:17:57,188 --> 00:18:01,028
WWS Properties LLC to renovate and expand the existing Bill Dodge

354
00:18:01,128 --> 00:18:05,108
Kia automobile dealership, which includes a 2,160

355
00:18:05,628 --> 00:18:09,608
square foot addition to the service area and a 3,850 square foot

356
00:18:09,788 --> 00:18:13,048
to the showroom. Tax Map 042B, Lot

357
00:18:13,248 --> 00:18:17,168
113, Zone Gateway Commercial. Approval includes the following findings

358
00:18:17,208 --> 00:18:20,628
of facts, conclusions, and conditions as stated on pages five through seven

359
00:18:21,168 --> 00:18:24,888
of the staff memo dated July 31st, 2026, which are

360
00:18:24,908 --> 00:18:26,268
adopted in support of this approval.

361
00:18:26,728 --> 00:18:28,108
Thank you. Can I get a second, please?

362
00:18:29,408 --> 00:18:29,768
Second.

363
00:18:30,568 --> 00:18:32,888
Thank you, Karen. Can I have a roll call vote, Jenna?

364
00:18:35,538 --> 00:18:36,478
Robin Tannenbaum?

365
00:18:37,758 --> 00:18:38,058
Yes.

366
00:18:39,258 --> 00:18:40,298
Nancy Litokapes?

367
00:18:41,038 --> 00:18:41,298
Yes.

368
00:18:42,278 --> 00:18:42,938
Jason Frazier?

369
00:18:43,338 --> 00:18:43,558
Yes.

370
00:18:44,438 --> 00:18:45,298
Karen Axelson?

371
00:18:45,598 --> 00:18:45,858
Yes.

372
00:18:47,118 --> 00:18:47,818
Kevin Price?

373
00:18:48,038 --> 00:18:48,278
Yes.

374
00:18:49,358 --> 00:18:49,998
Lucas Shrake?

375
00:18:50,198 --> 00:18:50,418
Yes.

376
00:18:51,578 --> 00:18:52,358
Oriana Farnham?

377
00:18:52,438 --> 00:18:52,678
Yes.

378
00:18:54,078 --> 00:18:54,718
John Turcotte?

379
00:18:55,098 --> 00:18:55,318
Yes.

380
00:18:56,238 --> 00:18:57,218
And Larry McWilliams.

381
00:18:57,678 --> 00:18:58,018
Yes.

382
00:18:58,938 --> 00:19:01,078
Seeing it's unanimous, thank you.

383
00:19:01,118 --> 00:19:03,438
Orlando, can you read the next item into the record, please?

384
00:19:05,498 --> 00:19:09,198
Item number 26-000275, site

385
00:19:09,278 --> 00:19:12,818
plan subdivision conditional use, Marco Commons, MTR

386
00:19:12,898 --> 00:19:16,678
Development LLC. The applicant is proposing to subdivide a parcel of

387
00:19:16,718 --> 00:19:20,658
vacant land located between 547 and 563 Saco

388
00:19:20,758 --> 00:19:24,518
Street into three lots and develop two of 12-unit

389
00:19:24,978 --> 00:19:28,778
multifamily buildings which will be accessed by a shared private driveway.

390
00:19:29,358 --> 00:19:33,288
Tax map 004, lot 013, zone residential

391
00:19:33,338 --> 00:19:36,398
growth area 2, use dwelling multiple family.

392
00:19:37,478 --> 00:19:37,758
Thank you.

393
00:19:39,498 --> 00:19:41,438
With that, can we have the applicant presentation?

394
00:19:41,698 --> 00:19:42,878
Sure. Yep, me again.

395
00:19:43,058 --> 00:19:43,498
Hi, Dustin.

396
00:19:44,178 --> 00:19:48,078
Dustin Roma with DM Roma Consulting Engineers, representing MTR

397
00:19:48,098 --> 00:19:51,498
Development for this proposed project at 547 Saco Street,

398
00:19:52,398 --> 00:19:56,098
which we've been referring to in the plans as Marco Commons.

399
00:19:57,878 --> 00:20:01,598
So the plan that I've got in front of you here depicts

400
00:20:03,338 --> 00:20:06,038
what we've been calling the first phase of this development.

401
00:20:06,178 --> 00:20:08,838
There's some language in the

402
00:20:09,838 --> 00:20:13,828
packet here which kind of talks about a multiple-phased approach that

403
00:20:13,858 --> 00:20:15,438
we've been working on in this project.

404
00:20:15,478 --> 00:20:18,778
So, this initial phase is going to

405
00:20:19,418 --> 00:20:23,378
divide the property up into four lots.

406
00:20:24,018 --> 00:20:25,998
One of those divisions has already occurred.

407
00:20:26,038 --> 00:20:29,718
So the existing farmhouse that's on the property has been

408
00:20:29,958 --> 00:20:33,878
separated off on its own lot, and that property has since been

409
00:20:34,238 --> 00:20:34,718
conveyed.

410
00:20:36,218 --> 00:20:40,058
And then what we're proposing is the creation of essentially three new

411
00:20:40,138 --> 00:20:42,058
lots on the remaining land.

412
00:20:42,918 --> 00:20:46,518
One lot will be created around an existing barn

413
00:20:46,718 --> 00:20:48,158
structure that's on the property.

414
00:20:48,968 --> 00:20:51,358
The intent is for that building to stay

415
00:20:52,198 --> 00:20:56,078
currently. At some point in the future, the plan would be for

416
00:20:56,138 --> 00:21:00,078
that to be a single-family residential lot

417
00:21:00,378 --> 00:21:04,278
if that building were to be knocked down, but that isn't anything

418
00:21:04,298 --> 00:21:07,558
we're looking to do anytime soon. So we want to kind of keep the barn up there and

419
00:21:08,578 --> 00:21:09,418
utilize it for

420
00:21:10,398 --> 00:21:12,018
whatever uses are permitted in the zone.

421
00:21:14,778 --> 00:21:15,938
One of the lots on the

422
00:21:16,998 --> 00:21:20,258
left-hand side or the Scarborough side of the property, we'll be

423
00:21:20,298 --> 00:21:24,198
creating that lot that is of adequate size for a

424
00:21:24,218 --> 00:21:27,978
duplex. And then the remaining land,

425
00:21:28,178 --> 00:21:30,938
we're currently proposing two 12-unit

426
00:21:31,038 --> 00:21:34,918
buildings for residential use on that remaining

427
00:21:34,958 --> 00:21:35,338
piece.

428
00:21:36,698 --> 00:21:40,318
We did include an overall master plan in our

429
00:21:40,378 --> 00:21:43,598
packets here, which just kind of lays out

430
00:21:43,658 --> 00:21:46,848
what our goal is for an ultimate build-out of this

431
00:21:46,878 --> 00:21:50,358
property. But it's certainly nothing that we're

432
00:21:51,098 --> 00:21:54,458
asking the board to comment or commit on at this time.

433
00:21:54,498 --> 00:21:57,998
We're really just seeking approval for these first two 12-unit

434
00:21:58,038 --> 00:22:01,768
buildings and the division of the property to create the duplex lot and the single

435
00:22:01,878 --> 00:22:02,228
family.

436
00:22:03,058 --> 00:22:06,607
But we did think it was important to continue the discussion with the board so that

437
00:22:06,638 --> 00:22:09,778
everybody can kind of see the vision as to where we hope to end up with this

438
00:22:09,798 --> 00:22:10,898
project here at some point.

439
00:22:12,458 --> 00:22:15,358
But again, what's here tonight is just the two 12-unit buildings on this larger

440
00:22:15,458 --> 00:22:15,758
lot.

441
00:22:17,538 --> 00:22:21,508
This plan shows the extent of a trail network that

442
00:22:21,518 --> 00:22:25,038
we're going to be enhancing and improving.

443
00:22:25,498 --> 00:22:28,818
There are some trails that kind of work their way through the property, but

444
00:22:29,498 --> 00:22:33,118
this shows an area that we're looking to enhance those trails.

445
00:22:33,698 --> 00:22:36,758
So this will be a walking area for the residents of the development,

446
00:22:38,358 --> 00:22:42,258
and this is something that we had presented to the Recreation

447
00:22:42,338 --> 00:22:44,338
Conservation Commission as part of

448
00:22:45,498 --> 00:22:49,258
our open space design requirements, which they've

449
00:22:50,178 --> 00:22:53,418
accepted as being suitable in conjunction with a

450
00:22:53,938 --> 00:22:56,878
off-site sidewalk that we're also proposing as well.

451
00:22:58,678 --> 00:23:02,618
So the off-site sidewalk piece of this is something we've had kind of extensive

452
00:23:02,738 --> 00:23:06,628
conversations and discussions with city staff on, because

453
00:23:06,658 --> 00:23:08,718
it's something that's kind of being

454
00:23:10,418 --> 00:23:12,238
done at the front end of the project.

455
00:23:12,298 --> 00:23:16,238
A lot of times these off-site improvements get done kind of later on, but we

456
00:23:16,258 --> 00:23:20,208
do have some timing constraints with the repaving project that's occurring on

457
00:23:20,438 --> 00:23:23,188
Saco Street, so we've been working kind of closely with the city just to make sure

458
00:23:23,218 --> 00:23:26,958
we're getting all the pieces put in place to work through those time

459
00:23:26,998 --> 00:23:27,518
constraints.

460
00:23:28,678 --> 00:23:32,478
But what's outlined in your proposal here is that we're going to be building

461
00:23:33,498 --> 00:23:37,418
all of the sidewalk out along the frontage of the property as part of this

462
00:23:37,458 --> 00:23:41,078
initial project phase. So it will extend down the

463
00:23:41,138 --> 00:23:45,018
road heading towards Elm Maple Drive, up until

464
00:23:45,238 --> 00:23:48,578
the existing driveway entrance that is at

465
00:23:49,058 --> 00:23:53,038
521 Saco Street. So we'll build up to that location now complete,

466
00:23:53,058 --> 00:23:56,898
and then we'll also head north and bring the sidewalk

467
00:23:57,018 --> 00:24:00,488
up to a point where we're going to be painting a crosswalk across the street, doing

468
00:24:00,518 --> 00:24:04,458
tip downs, and putting in a rapid flashing beacon at that

469
00:24:04,498 --> 00:24:07,138
location to allow people to cross the street there.

470
00:24:07,198 --> 00:24:10,918
So we think these are benefits that'll help the residents of our

471
00:24:10,958 --> 00:24:13,748
neighborhood, but we also have The Hamlet and other neighborhoods around

472
00:24:14,678 --> 00:24:17,998
where folks are coming down. There's a bus stop across the street from our

473
00:24:18,038 --> 00:24:21,968
development. So the thought is that all of these things will

474
00:24:22,018 --> 00:24:25,898
help the pedestrian movements around this area, make it safer,

475
00:24:26,758 --> 00:24:29,238
make people feel like they can use the amenities that are there.

476
00:24:31,358 --> 00:24:34,938
As far as the development itself

477
00:24:36,434 --> 00:24:39,694
Here's a landscaping plan that we're proposing for the project.

478
00:24:39,814 --> 00:24:40,034
So

479
00:24:41,174 --> 00:24:44,554
we've got a single entrance driveway coming in.

480
00:24:44,794 --> 00:24:48,514
That driveway will also serve as the entrance to those other two

481
00:24:48,534 --> 00:24:52,094
lots that we're creating. So the duplex lot and the single-family lot will both be

482
00:24:52,194 --> 00:24:55,714
accessed off this Marco Drive shared

483
00:24:55,954 --> 00:24:59,874
private access way. So no new curb cuts on Saco

484
00:24:59,974 --> 00:25:03,634
Street. The two curb cuts that exist currently that provide kind of a loop

485
00:25:03,734 --> 00:25:06,834
driveway for the farmhouse, one of those will be closed off,

486
00:25:07,574 --> 00:25:10,914
and that existing barn structure will be accessed from this new

487
00:25:12,294 --> 00:25:12,814
driveway.

488
00:25:14,654 --> 00:25:18,634
One of the comments that we received when we had our neighborhood meeting, as well

489
00:25:18,674 --> 00:25:22,614
as when we were last here in front of the planning board for our workshop, was

490
00:25:22,654 --> 00:25:26,524
the proximity of these two proposed multi-family buildings to the

491
00:25:26,574 --> 00:25:30,454
adjacent property to our south at the 521 Saco

492
00:25:30,534 --> 00:25:31,054
Street lot.

493
00:25:32,154 --> 00:25:36,094
So what we did is we've moved the whole project as far away from that

494
00:25:36,114 --> 00:25:39,993
property line as we could. We do have the existing pond and some wetland

495
00:25:40,074 --> 00:25:43,934
areas that are on that northern side of the property, so we basically

496
00:25:43,974 --> 00:25:46,674
pulled everything as far away from that property line as possible.

497
00:25:46,714 --> 00:25:50,074
And this is substantially more

498
00:25:51,354 --> 00:25:53,514
separation there than what it was previously.

499
00:25:54,314 --> 00:25:57,734
We've also angled the development a little bit, so it's not

500
00:25:57,794 --> 00:26:01,714
necessarily looking right straight into

501
00:26:01,754 --> 00:26:02,334
the property,

502
00:26:03,214 --> 00:26:06,034
just so that you're not looking directly at the backside of those buildings.

503
00:26:06,594 --> 00:26:10,334
In moving those buildings away from the property line, we're also able to

504
00:26:10,874 --> 00:26:14,834
retain all of the trees that are along that property line currently.

505
00:26:14,894 --> 00:26:18,044
With the old design, we could have retained them as well, but we would have been

506
00:26:18,054 --> 00:26:21,544
very close to them. This way, we've got plenty of space pulling those

507
00:26:21,574 --> 00:26:23,694
away from that property line.

508
00:26:26,154 --> 00:26:26,914
Let's see.

509
00:26:33,794 --> 00:26:34,754
I think at this point,

510
00:26:36,154 --> 00:26:39,514
again, we appreciate staff working with us up to this point

511
00:26:40,434 --> 00:26:42,254
with all the upfront planning.

512
00:26:43,434 --> 00:26:45,283
And I know the applicant is

513
00:26:46,814 --> 00:26:48,554
ready to start this project here

514
00:26:49,514 --> 00:26:53,374
as soon as approvals are granted. So this is kind of their next project to

515
00:26:53,414 --> 00:26:54,854
move into. So

516
00:26:56,254 --> 00:26:59,254
I think we've addressed the comments that have been brought to us to date.

517
00:26:59,534 --> 00:27:03,414
There are a few things in the memo here just in regard to how we're going to

518
00:27:03,494 --> 00:27:06,494
separate the subdivision plan, the site plan,

519
00:27:08,054 --> 00:27:11,534
putting notes on those so we can kind of have separate recording plans and separate

520
00:27:11,574 --> 00:27:15,534
approval plans. So all that information's got some good instructions here

521
00:27:15,574 --> 00:27:18,374
in the packet that we can incorporate.

522
00:27:20,834 --> 00:27:22,434
And we're prepared to do that, and

523
00:27:23,434 --> 00:27:24,734
it seems pretty straightforward.

524
00:27:27,874 --> 00:27:31,554
I think there was a couple other things in the memo just in regard to the

525
00:27:31,594 --> 00:27:34,494
city's involvement going forward with the sidewalk area.

526
00:27:34,974 --> 00:27:36,734
But I think maybe I'll just let

527
00:27:38,314 --> 00:27:41,954
Rebecca elaborate a little bit on that just so I don't misspeak on any of

528
00:27:42,514 --> 00:27:46,494
the things that the city is proposing to step up and assist with on that end.

529
00:27:46,594 --> 00:27:46,734
So

530
00:27:47,974 --> 00:27:50,954
with that, I'll turn it over and we're here to answer questions.

531
00:27:51,354 --> 00:27:52,034
Thank you, Dustin.

532
00:27:53,954 --> 00:27:55,374
Staff response with that, would you?

533
00:27:57,174 --> 00:27:57,534
Yeah.

534
00:27:58,494 --> 00:28:02,174
So what's before the board right now, there's actually kind of two applications

535
00:28:02,214 --> 00:28:05,894
happening, so I just want to reiterate that what is up for looking for approval

536
00:28:05,934 --> 00:28:09,924
tonight. There's the land subdivision, and then step into what's

537
00:28:09,934 --> 00:28:12,214
being identified in the plans as lots one, two, and three.

538
00:28:12,834 --> 00:28:16,054
As Dustin said, there is technically a fourth lot, but that was carved off

539
00:28:16,134 --> 00:28:19,994
previously. Per subdivision law, it's a subdivision once

540
00:28:20,174 --> 00:28:24,114
a parcel becomes three parcels within a five-year period.

541
00:28:24,464 --> 00:28:28,274
And so legally they were able to carve off one lot, but as soon as they're

542
00:28:28,334 --> 00:28:31,134
creating a second lot, that's what triggers the subdivision review.

543
00:28:31,754 --> 00:28:35,604
So the lot that's been carved off is already legally a separated lot, and

544
00:28:35,654 --> 00:28:38,774
before the board is the creation of the three now new lots.

545
00:28:40,414 --> 00:28:44,374
With that, as Dustin said, lots one and two are proposed to

546
00:28:44,414 --> 00:28:46,794
have shared access off of Marco Drive.

547
00:28:47,534 --> 00:28:50,094
They will not have separate curb cuts onto Saco Street.

548
00:28:51,494 --> 00:28:52,114
And

549
00:28:54,354 --> 00:28:58,284
then lot three is a separate site plan subdivision, which is

550
00:28:58,314 --> 00:29:01,514
currently the two 12-unit structures that you see before

551
00:29:01,574 --> 00:29:04,374
you. A couple other points I wanted to touch on.

552
00:29:04,774 --> 00:29:08,474
So the Recreation and Conservation Commission, as Dustin said, reviewed

553
00:29:08,694 --> 00:29:10,954
this plan. The overall

554
00:29:11,854 --> 00:29:15,514
open space plan here is a little unusual for how we typically do things.

555
00:29:16,074 --> 00:29:20,014
But given the design here, clustering, we looked at

556
00:29:20,054 --> 00:29:23,154
the overall master plan. We really didn't want to separate this out into phase one

557
00:29:23,194 --> 00:29:26,583
when we knew the overall master plan was coming, and generally planning and

558
00:29:26,634 --> 00:29:28,164
development is better when you look at the overall.

559
00:29:28,594 --> 00:29:31,714
So they clustered the development as close as they could towards Saco Street to

560
00:29:31,754 --> 00:29:34,534
preserve that 12 acres towards the back.

561
00:29:34,814 --> 00:29:38,114
They're also proposing a small loop trail back there.

562
00:29:38,594 --> 00:29:39,994
And then along with that,

563
00:29:40,894 --> 00:29:44,774
given the extensive public benefit and improvements

564
00:29:44,874 --> 00:29:47,754
of the Saco Street sidewalk, although it is a

565
00:29:47,994 --> 00:29:51,914
general requirement for any development to provide pedestrian access,

566
00:29:52,314 --> 00:29:55,824
we felt it was reasonable to include the efforts being made here where they

567
00:29:55,914 --> 00:29:59,834
are sort of above a standard sort

568
00:29:59,854 --> 00:30:03,554
of requirement and development, include that in with the open space given the

569
00:30:03,634 --> 00:30:06,694
sidewalk is public recreation for the general public.

570
00:30:07,034 --> 00:30:11,014
So those three elements together is what went to the

571
00:30:11,034 --> 00:30:14,994
commission. The commission supported this, but did include a recommendation for

572
00:30:15,094 --> 00:30:17,254
public access to the rear of the property.

573
00:30:19,214 --> 00:30:22,374
Staff reviewed this afterwards and found that

574
00:30:23,114 --> 00:30:26,894
where this parcel doesn't abut another public property,

575
00:30:27,083 --> 00:30:30,954
an existing trail system, historically we've seen just some

576
00:30:31,054 --> 00:30:34,994
conflict that can occur when public is walking through a private development

577
00:30:35,014 --> 00:30:37,744
and the private development doesn't understand why they're there, they're not

578
00:30:37,814 --> 00:30:41,714
there. So without some kind of a connection

579
00:30:41,774 --> 00:30:45,394
to an existing system, staff would support this remaining a benefit for the

580
00:30:45,594 --> 00:30:49,534
private development, and then the public benefit is that sidewalk along

581
00:30:49,874 --> 00:30:50,474
Saco Street.

582
00:30:53,898 --> 00:30:56,618
Also, I wanted to touch on the Saco Street sidewalk a bit.

583
00:30:56,678 --> 00:30:59,978
This is a little confusing, so I'm going to try to explain it, and if you have any

584
00:31:00,038 --> 00:31:01,398
questions, please jump in.

585
00:31:03,118 --> 00:31:03,258
Oh,

586
00:31:05,218 --> 00:31:06,638
I'm glad you have the building elevations.

587
00:31:06,718 --> 00:31:07,318
I was hoping you could-

588
00:31:07,358 --> 00:31:07,368
Yeah

589
00:31:07,368 --> 00:31:09,698
... show those to the board as well again.

590
00:31:10,418 --> 00:31:14,058
Some of the challenges facing with this, it's about 1,300 feet

591
00:31:14,238 --> 00:31:18,008
of sidewalk from the Spiller Drive to the existing Elm

592
00:31:18,078 --> 00:31:20,438
Maple where the existing infrastructure ends.

593
00:31:21,758 --> 00:31:25,678
As part of this phase, Dustin created a sidewalk design, and that sidewalk

594
00:31:25,738 --> 00:31:29,458
design identified several areas where there would need to be

595
00:31:31,518 --> 00:31:35,308
easements on private property, either for grading or a couple feet of the

596
00:31:35,398 --> 00:31:39,118
sidewalk in order to maintain the five-foot shoulder that is on

597
00:31:39,158 --> 00:31:43,068
Saco Street. There could have been an option where the developer reduced

598
00:31:43,078 --> 00:31:46,298
that five-foot shoulder, and everything was able to remain within the right of way.

599
00:31:46,738 --> 00:31:50,218
However, staff find that shoulder is important for the use of

600
00:31:50,238 --> 00:31:54,158
bicyclists and didn't support reducing that below five feet.

601
00:31:54,268 --> 00:31:58,118
And so, that is what resulted in, there are two locations

602
00:31:59,338 --> 00:32:00,998
where there would be right-of-way impacts.

603
00:32:01,578 --> 00:32:05,528
So, that's how we got to this place of proposing

604
00:32:05,558 --> 00:32:07,698
to phase the sidewalk installation.

605
00:32:07,738 --> 00:32:11,438
The development is satisfying the pedestrian connectivity element

606
00:32:11,478 --> 00:32:14,938
by extending the sidewalk towards Spiller and installing the

607
00:32:14,978 --> 00:32:18,018
crosswalk to the existing sidewalk on the other side of Saco Street,

608
00:32:18,838 --> 00:32:22,178
and also installing the curb all the way down to Elm Maple.

609
00:32:22,838 --> 00:32:26,408
And the reason that's important is because once Saco Street pavement goes down,

610
00:32:26,498 --> 00:32:29,738
there's a moratorium, and you can't disturb the pavement even to put curbing down.

611
00:32:29,998 --> 00:32:33,558
So the curbing is down, which means the sidewalk can go in whenever it's ready.

612
00:32:34,638 --> 00:32:38,618
With that, the city is going to take on the responsibility to work

613
00:32:38,638 --> 00:32:42,118
with the individual private landowners and finalize

614
00:32:42,158 --> 00:32:45,638
whatever needs to be made in order for this sidewalk to move forward,

615
00:32:46,238 --> 00:32:46,818
where

616
00:32:48,698 --> 00:32:52,578
we see a strong public benefit here, and an overall goal to extend

617
00:32:52,618 --> 00:32:54,658
this sidewalk eventually down to the neighborhoods

618
00:32:55,758 --> 00:32:57,398
towards the Scarborough's town line, The Hamlet.

619
00:32:58,058 --> 00:33:01,818
So, the city has agreed to take that conversation on.

620
00:33:02,367 --> 00:33:06,098
And then with that, the development would be required to actually

621
00:33:06,138 --> 00:33:09,718
install the infrastructure and the sidewalk as part of their next phase of

622
00:33:09,758 --> 00:33:10,238
development.

623
00:33:11,098 --> 00:33:15,058
We found this to be a fair private-public partnership,

624
00:33:15,538 --> 00:33:18,978
understanding that the actual request right now is just two

625
00:33:19,138 --> 00:33:21,398
multifamily. We're not talking about the full build-out.

626
00:33:21,828 --> 00:33:25,798
So for the two multifamily, we are achieving that pedestrian connectivity.

627
00:33:25,838 --> 00:33:29,798
And then for the overall build-out, when that comes back, that's when the heavier

628
00:33:29,838 --> 00:33:31,978
lift of the full sidewalk installation would

629
00:33:32,978 --> 00:33:33,278
occur.

630
00:33:34,378 --> 00:33:36,378
That's if you get the right of way, is that correct?

631
00:33:37,678 --> 00:33:39,818
What if there's opposition for the right of way?

632
00:33:41,218 --> 00:33:42,938
We'd have that conversation at that time.

633
00:33:44,078 --> 00:33:45,658
I don't know, maybe there are other options.

634
00:33:45,758 --> 00:33:49,318
Maybe there's an area where the sidewalk would be reduced in si-- I'm not really

635
00:33:49,358 --> 00:33:53,178
sure what that conversation would be, but it seems like a conversation that

636
00:33:53,218 --> 00:33:56,738
was more appropriate for the city to have with the individual landowners instead of

637
00:33:56,778 --> 00:33:57,318
the developer.

638
00:33:57,518 --> 00:33:57,758
Okay.

639
00:33:58,758 --> 00:33:59,038
Thanks.

640
00:33:59,258 --> 00:33:59,538
Mm-hmm.

641
00:33:59,598 --> 00:34:01,598
I'd like to see what that update would be, for sure.

642
00:34:02,378 --> 00:34:04,358
Putting the curb in, for one thing, is a plus-

643
00:34:04,578 --> 00:34:04,758
Mm-hmm

644
00:34:04,838 --> 00:34:06,758
... with the moratorium, because then it can be added on.

645
00:34:07,878 --> 00:34:11,718
And with the phases, what type of timeframe are we

646
00:34:11,738 --> 00:34:13,379
even talking about phasing on this?

647
00:34:14,379 --> 00:34:18,298
Yeah. I think the goal is to do two buildings a year,

648
00:34:18,498 --> 00:34:21,298
so we'd be back probably sometime,

649
00:34:22,778 --> 00:34:26,419
maybe in the spring or over the winter to come back and talk about the next phase

650
00:34:26,458 --> 00:34:27,098
of development.

651
00:34:29,678 --> 00:34:31,178
So yeah, that's our intended schedule.

652
00:34:31,958 --> 00:34:32,798
Okay. Thank you.

653
00:34:35,038 --> 00:34:37,938
This is also a public comment area as well.

654
00:34:37,948 --> 00:34:40,538
Does anybody from the public wish to speak on this project?

655
00:34:43,899 --> 00:34:45,958
I see none. Anybody on Zoom?

656
00:34:46,839 --> 00:34:50,518
I think that there's-

657
00:34:50,638 --> 00:34:53,899
You want to come up? Yeah, come on up. State your name, your address.

658
00:34:55,598 --> 00:34:57,278
You have three minutes to speak, so...

659
00:34:58,018 --> 00:34:58,267
Got it.

660
00:34:59,258 --> 00:35:00,728
My name is Kathy Gorham,

661
00:35:01,738 --> 00:35:05,038
and we have lived at 521 Saco Street for

662
00:35:06,218 --> 00:35:07,698
over 49 years.

663
00:35:09,038 --> 00:35:12,378
When I was here at the previous meeting, I realized I'm in the older

664
00:35:12,838 --> 00:35:16,598
generation here and got a little overwhelmed with what all was going

665
00:35:16,638 --> 00:35:20,118
on. I have to say, I do appreciate some of the accommodations

666
00:35:20,598 --> 00:35:23,918
that I heard about tonight. It would've been nice to have known about a little bit

667
00:35:23,938 --> 00:35:27,898
more ahead of time, because that was part of what I would be

668
00:35:27,958 --> 00:35:30,978
talking about. But, he's already addressing some of the

669
00:35:32,118 --> 00:35:34,418
concerns that I had, and we had

670
00:35:35,518 --> 00:35:35,978
before.

671
00:35:37,118 --> 00:35:40,698
I know one part of when I was here before, that a big

672
00:35:40,738 --> 00:35:44,618
concern about affordable housing, which I think everybody is concerned

673
00:35:44,698 --> 00:35:48,608
about. I think Westbrook is doing more than their share in providing

674
00:35:48,658 --> 00:35:48,878
it.

675
00:35:50,138 --> 00:35:53,778
Our concern is that Saco Street's been the location

676
00:35:53,918 --> 00:35:57,808
of single-family homes from the 1700s

677
00:35:57,858 --> 00:35:58,998
up to recently built

678
00:35:59,898 --> 00:36:01,858
new developments. And,

679
00:36:05,298 --> 00:36:09,168
I have my notes here tonight. So, over the years,

680
00:36:09,478 --> 00:36:12,518
various differences of intrusions have been allowed to

681
00:36:13,238 --> 00:36:14,738
complicate it, kind of like the mix.

682
00:36:14,798 --> 00:36:18,257
It's been residential, and then not residential, and then residential.

683
00:36:22,898 --> 00:36:26,518
One concern that I know probably isn't even appropriate here is that that

684
00:36:26,738 --> 00:36:30,438
farmhouse that got sold is going to be, I believe, some sort of a halfway

685
00:36:30,498 --> 00:36:33,798
house, which would definitely have an impact on our neighborhood.

686
00:36:33,848 --> 00:36:35,978
And that apparently doesn't come under any type of

687
00:36:38,238 --> 00:36:41,358
logic that needs to come up into public

688
00:36:43,038 --> 00:36:45,198
interest other than to us.

689
00:36:46,278 --> 00:36:49,598
Now, the total, I believe, is 172, although we've heard

690
00:36:49,678 --> 00:36:51,898
184 planned units out back.

691
00:36:53,958 --> 00:36:57,518
I'm sure everybody can do the math and figure out there are going to be

692
00:36:57,894 --> 00:37:00,854
Equal or more than those numbers of vehicles

693
00:37:02,634 --> 00:37:04,154
entering and leaving Saco Street,

694
00:37:05,314 --> 00:37:09,294
which should be renamed Saco Speedway, because

695
00:37:09,334 --> 00:37:13,054
we've got a 45 speed limit out in front of our house, and believe me,

696
00:37:13,974 --> 00:37:16,714
they go then and above all the time.

697
00:37:17,134 --> 00:37:21,044
So then if you're going to have another 200 vehicles going on and off right

698
00:37:21,074 --> 00:37:21,304
there,

699
00:37:22,174 --> 00:37:25,574
that is going to be a problem for I think everybody who lives on Saco Street.

700
00:37:30,474 --> 00:37:31,274
A lot of people have

701
00:37:32,674 --> 00:37:36,434
built homes and bought homes in that area with the

702
00:37:36,474 --> 00:37:37,514
idea that

703
00:37:38,774 --> 00:37:42,644
they would have a long-term residence in a desirable area, and

704
00:37:42,834 --> 00:37:46,394
I don't think this particular project is going to really

705
00:37:46,454 --> 00:37:49,534
enhance that. It's not really going to be considered what

706
00:37:50,214 --> 00:37:52,974
people bought into in a desired area at the time.

707
00:37:53,294 --> 00:37:56,294
I realize it's late in the project and probably nothing anybody's going to do

708
00:37:56,374 --> 00:38:00,354
about, but you need to understand that the people that live there,

709
00:38:01,314 --> 00:38:01,973
it's a big deal.

710
00:38:02,833 --> 00:38:05,014
It's a big deal to have that happening.

711
00:38:05,614 --> 00:38:06,894
It seems like we've considered

712
00:38:09,734 --> 00:38:13,714
housing, we've considered developers, but nobody seems to stop

713
00:38:13,734 --> 00:38:15,014
and think about the people.

714
00:38:16,374 --> 00:38:18,574
Am I up with my three minutes already?

715
00:38:18,614 --> 00:38:19,394
Just keep it short-

716
00:38:19,524 --> 00:38:19,524
Okay.

717
00:38:19,524 --> 00:38:22,134
... and if you can, I'll allow you to still speak.

718
00:38:22,354 --> 00:38:23,114
All right. Thank you.

719
00:38:25,194 --> 00:38:28,874
I've lost my train of thought. It happens a lot.

720
00:38:31,534 --> 00:38:31,894
Anyway,

721
00:38:34,574 --> 00:38:37,114
I've lost my notes, but anyway. We

722
00:38:38,174 --> 00:38:40,774
know that that place wasn't going to stay vacant.

723
00:38:40,814 --> 00:38:41,294
It was a

724
00:38:42,094 --> 00:38:44,594
farm for many years. We knew it wasn't going to stay vacant.

725
00:38:45,594 --> 00:38:48,954
But we were hoping there'd be something more compatible with the neighborhood,

726
00:38:49,014 --> 00:38:51,634
because it's a neighborhood. It's been there a long time and it's still a

727
00:38:51,674 --> 00:38:54,274
neighborhood. A lot of families living there.

728
00:38:54,354 --> 00:38:57,794
A lot of new homes have been approved to be built there.

729
00:38:58,554 --> 00:38:58,854
And

730
00:38:59,894 --> 00:39:03,694
we just are disappointed that hasn't been given more

731
00:39:03,734 --> 00:39:05,314
consideration to those of us

732
00:39:06,134 --> 00:39:09,594
that still live there. Probably will live there a little bit longer.

733
00:39:10,214 --> 00:39:10,494
And

734
00:39:12,814 --> 00:39:14,634
that's pretty much it. And I

735
00:39:16,974 --> 00:39:20,734
just know from talking to my neighbors and myself having lived there for a long

736
00:39:20,774 --> 00:39:24,414
time, that it's disappointing that that type of a

737
00:39:24,814 --> 00:39:27,874
project is being allowed, and that would've been

738
00:39:27,974 --> 00:39:30,194
a better way of approaching it.

739
00:39:31,264 --> 00:39:34,314
Probably a done deal at this point, but just so you know.

740
00:39:35,254 --> 00:39:35,554
Thank you.

741
00:39:35,794 --> 00:39:36,474
Thank you, Kathy.

742
00:39:38,394 --> 00:39:39,174
Anybody else?

743
00:39:42,474 --> 00:39:43,894
Is there anybody through Zoom?

744
00:39:45,014 --> 00:39:48,934
If there's anyone participating via Zoom and would like to speak, please raise your

745
00:39:48,944 --> 00:39:49,973
hand.

746
00:39:51,994 --> 00:39:53,134
I'm seeing none.

747
00:39:53,174 --> 00:39:53,954
Okay. Thank you.

748
00:39:57,754 --> 00:40:00,274
With that, I'm going to close the public comment, public hearing.

749
00:40:01,054 --> 00:40:01,574
Dustin,

750
00:40:02,614 --> 00:40:05,854
would you like to address a couple of these issues, maybe

751
00:40:05,914 --> 00:40:09,554
affordability? I don't know how many might be

752
00:40:09,574 --> 00:40:13,534
affordable part of the housing. Is there rumors of a halfway house with the

753
00:40:13,574 --> 00:40:14,814
barn being taken down?

754
00:40:15,834 --> 00:40:17,674
This is the first time hearing it, so.

755
00:40:17,714 --> 00:40:17,934
Yeah.

756
00:40:19,314 --> 00:40:22,054
And I know with traffic, its traffic concerns are

757
00:40:22,894 --> 00:40:26,834
all over the place, and I know we're trying to, at the council

758
00:40:26,914 --> 00:40:29,294
meeting last night, it was even mentioned more and more.

759
00:40:29,334 --> 00:40:33,034
I know we don't have any control here with the speed

760
00:40:33,454 --> 00:40:36,294
control on any of the streets in Westboro.

761
00:40:36,374 --> 00:40:38,734
It gets out of control, and I don't think that anybody is

762
00:40:39,534 --> 00:40:42,954
really taking the time to slow it down.

763
00:40:43,234 --> 00:40:46,634
So, I understand your concerns with the speed limit at 60 mile an hour.

764
00:40:46,694 --> 00:40:49,074
I see people do on Saco Street sometimes.

765
00:40:50,214 --> 00:40:54,174
But yeah, maybe you can just address some of those concerns.

766
00:40:55,894 --> 00:40:57,304
Yeah. As far as the

767
00:40:58,454 --> 00:41:01,474
existing farmhouse, all I know is that the applicant,

768
00:41:02,274 --> 00:41:04,854
they divided that off, and they did

769
00:41:05,694 --> 00:41:07,614
donate it to his church.

770
00:41:09,034 --> 00:41:10,654
So, that was a donation that was made.

771
00:41:10,714 --> 00:41:13,813
And as far as what the church will use it for, I don't know.

772
00:41:15,193 --> 00:41:17,734
But that's the limit of what I know about that.

773
00:41:20,134 --> 00:41:24,094
And then, as far as the units themselves, I know

774
00:41:26,794 --> 00:41:28,124
some of the neighbors, I

775
00:41:28,934 --> 00:41:30,484
know they have a preference for

776
00:41:31,534 --> 00:41:35,394
single-family development. And they had expressed

777
00:41:35,454 --> 00:41:39,314
their desire that they would've preferred if this was like another L Maple

778
00:41:39,374 --> 00:41:43,234
Drive or something like that, that kind of continued through and had all

779
00:41:43,294 --> 00:41:44,374
single-family homes.

780
00:41:46,074 --> 00:41:46,514
Certainly,

781
00:41:48,234 --> 00:41:49,614
different options were kind of

782
00:41:51,034 --> 00:41:52,474
considered a little bit here in the beginning.

783
00:41:52,534 --> 00:41:54,534
I know this particular builder,

784
00:41:55,474 --> 00:41:59,374
when they look to purchase properties throughout the city and do

785
00:41:59,534 --> 00:42:03,374
development, the intent is to do these projects where

786
00:42:03,414 --> 00:42:07,274
they build them and keep the properties and maintain them themselves

787
00:42:07,334 --> 00:42:10,234
and create these rental units.

788
00:42:11,354 --> 00:42:14,134
So, that wasn't something that they had purchased the property

789
00:42:15,114 --> 00:42:18,874
with the intent of pursuing as a single-family type residential neighborhood.

790
00:42:20,034 --> 00:42:23,964
That would be something where they would buy it and develop a bunch of lots and

791
00:42:24,054 --> 00:42:27,934
sell them and then move on. Instead, this is one where they're looking to

792
00:42:27,954 --> 00:42:31,574
make a long-term investment in Westboro and continue to maintain this

793
00:42:31,594 --> 00:42:35,194
property. And they've got a lot of other nice properties

794
00:42:35,254 --> 00:42:38,534
around the city where they've maintained them very nicely.

795
00:42:38,634 --> 00:42:38,814
So, I

796
00:42:40,494 --> 00:42:44,254
understand the skepticism going into this, and I'm hoping we can prove

797
00:42:44,274 --> 00:42:48,064
everybody wrong, that this is a very nice addition to this neighborhood and it'll

798
00:42:48,114 --> 00:42:52,004
complement what they've got going on as opposed to being something that

799
00:42:52,014 --> 00:42:53,654
they look at and are disappointed in.

800
00:42:53,714 --> 00:42:53,814
So,

801
00:42:54,974 --> 00:42:58,414
I do think it is helpful to at least look at the buildings as well.

802
00:42:58,514 --> 00:43:02,354
I know there's some developments around the city that maybe

803
00:43:02,414 --> 00:43:06,044
folks look at and wish the buildings maybe were a little different, and I'm

804
00:43:06,534 --> 00:43:09,334
hoping that this style of development with the

805
00:43:09,794 --> 00:43:12,574
large pitch roofs, the half stories above,

806
00:43:13,674 --> 00:43:17,634
this, I think, will fit in very nicely on this property and certainly

807
00:43:17,734 --> 00:43:19,994
lends itself to that residential character

808
00:43:21,074 --> 00:43:22,374
type of development. So,

809
00:43:23,294 --> 00:43:25,254
I think this is

810
00:43:27,026 --> 00:43:30,646
I think a nice, attractive looking building, and I think it'll fit well in the

811
00:43:30,746 --> 00:43:31,206
area.

812
00:43:36,706 --> 00:43:39,266
And how about the affordability standpoint?

813
00:43:39,426 --> 00:43:42,386
I know with a development of this size,

814
00:43:44,026 --> 00:43:47,786
with a percentage going to low income or more

815
00:43:47,826 --> 00:43:49,766
affordable housing, is anything on

816
00:43:50,786 --> 00:43:53,516
the proposal to give some marketable rates?

817
00:43:53,766 --> 00:43:55,676
Or is it going to be all market rate rentals?

818
00:43:58,706 --> 00:44:02,046
Yeah. There wasn't a plan, per se, to

819
00:44:02,306 --> 00:44:05,926
designate a certain number of units as meeting the federal standards of

820
00:44:05,946 --> 00:44:09,866
affordability and going through that whole HUD process of pre-qualifying

821
00:44:09,906 --> 00:44:13,646
and all of that. I will say that this project incorporates

822
00:44:14,186 --> 00:44:15,506
some one-bedroom units.

823
00:44:16,606 --> 00:44:20,546
I think what we've heard from some people is that there's a lot

824
00:44:20,586 --> 00:44:24,166
of folks out there that really only need a one-bedroom unit, and that's kind of the

825
00:44:24,206 --> 00:44:25,666
price point that they'd like to be in.

826
00:44:26,226 --> 00:44:30,086
But due to the lack of inventory, or maybe

827
00:44:30,096 --> 00:44:33,726
they're only in buildings that only have one unit or are single-bedroom

828
00:44:33,806 --> 00:44:37,616
units. For them to be able to be in a neighborhood like this

829
00:44:37,666 --> 00:44:41,486
one with a one-bedroom unit that's a little bit more affordable, if that's all the

830
00:44:41,566 --> 00:44:42,486
space that they need.

831
00:44:43,986 --> 00:44:47,906
The entire third story of these buildings, they'll have

832
00:44:47,926 --> 00:44:48,726
the four

833
00:44:50,426 --> 00:44:54,306
single-bedroom units, which would be reduced rent compared to the two-bedroom

834
00:44:54,386 --> 00:44:58,146
units. So it does introduce an affordable option

835
00:44:58,226 --> 00:45:01,786
for folks that may not need the extra space, where they can still get into the same

836
00:45:01,846 --> 00:45:05,166
neighborhood as somebody that's going to be paying the two-bedroom rate, but they

837
00:45:05,206 --> 00:45:07,166
can be in at a lesser rate for the one bedroom.

838
00:45:07,766 --> 00:45:09,006
Right. Thank you for that.

839
00:45:10,306 --> 00:45:11,726
Do we have any other board comments?

840
00:45:13,906 --> 00:45:14,246
Robin?

841
00:45:16,346 --> 00:45:20,286
Thank you. I want to recognize all the work you did to move this around on the

842
00:45:20,326 --> 00:45:23,806
site. I don't remember specifically, but I know it was much closer to the other

843
00:45:23,826 --> 00:45:25,926
neighborhood, and I think it's a nice solution.

844
00:45:27,986 --> 00:45:31,976
And I do think it's among the more attractive multi-family buildings for sort of a

845
00:45:32,046 --> 00:45:35,046
big box that we've seen. It really is, around the city.

846
00:45:35,106 --> 00:45:38,546
So I want to thank your applicant for that.

847
00:45:38,606 --> 00:45:40,566
And because you know I can't resist,

848
00:45:42,626 --> 00:45:44,186
so looking at the plans,

849
00:45:45,146 --> 00:45:48,566
the way the entries work, they're actually on the sides is what I realize.

850
00:45:48,626 --> 00:45:49,006
You walk

851
00:45:50,766 --> 00:45:54,346
on the sidewalks, and the face that faces the parking

852
00:45:54,386 --> 00:45:58,086
lot is kind of the back. And the entries, there's two

853
00:45:58,166 --> 00:46:00,446
corridors, are the sides.

854
00:46:01,826 --> 00:46:02,666
If you guys look at

855
00:46:05,186 --> 00:46:08,726
GU-1. If you look at the plans and look at the site plan, you see that.

856
00:46:08,966 --> 00:46:12,755
And what I want to point out on that is that the mechanical shed, which is the

857
00:46:12,786 --> 00:46:15,886
utility shed, faces the parking lot, and it's the public side.

858
00:46:15,946 --> 00:46:17,475
And it's private property. I

859
00:46:19,446 --> 00:46:22,466
don't know if there's a design guideline that speaks against it, but I would

860
00:46:22,506 --> 00:46:25,726
certainly recommend, because it's a really nice building, that you find a way to

861
00:46:25,766 --> 00:46:28,226
put that. Just flip it so that's on the back.

862
00:46:28,466 --> 00:46:30,426
It's probably for access for service.

863
00:46:30,946 --> 00:46:34,726
It would mean adding a sidewalk, but it's a very

864
00:46:34,786 --> 00:46:38,366
nice building, and you're going to drive in and see the mechanical shed.

865
00:46:39,706 --> 00:46:43,406
Do you see what I mean? Those bays on the gable end, those are

866
00:46:43,446 --> 00:46:46,186
actually the sides, not the front and back.

867
00:46:48,166 --> 00:46:50,626
So the face of the building. I think there's another one.

868
00:46:52,906 --> 00:46:53,986
Go to the elevations.

869
00:46:56,046 --> 00:46:56,646
Go up one.

870
00:46:58,166 --> 00:46:59,626
Yeah. These are the ones here.

871
00:47:01,266 --> 00:47:03,646
Go up one. Do I have actual elevations in our... Oh, maybe you don't have them.

872
00:47:03,706 --> 00:47:06,116
Oh, yeah. These are separate slides, so I didn't-

873
00:47:06,166 --> 00:47:06,315
Yeah. It's two different-

874
00:47:06,315 --> 00:47:07,706
I didn't bring the all four sides.

875
00:47:08,006 --> 00:47:08,016
Okay.

876
00:47:08,016 --> 00:47:08,626
But yeah.

877
00:47:08,686 --> 00:47:08,786
Yeah.

878
00:47:09,046 --> 00:47:09,126
Sorry.

879
00:47:09,186 --> 00:47:10,636
If people look at their packets,

880
00:47:11,506 --> 00:47:14,746
it's the west elevation as it's shown.

881
00:47:14,946 --> 00:47:18,866
And again, it's never going to be the front elevation facing it, but it feels

882
00:47:18,886 --> 00:47:20,116
like a shame for such a lovely

883
00:47:21,406 --> 00:47:22,946
building. That's what I have to say.

884
00:47:24,946 --> 00:47:26,086
Thank you, Robin.

885
00:47:26,906 --> 00:47:28,826
I can echo on that, too. The building's not square.

886
00:47:29,366 --> 00:47:33,246
They've not plain. They put

887
00:47:33,286 --> 00:47:34,986
some architectural skill to it.

888
00:47:35,826 --> 00:47:38,346
And I know it falls within city ordinances,

889
00:47:39,146 --> 00:47:42,606
so we basically have to follow the city ordinances as far as

890
00:47:43,346 --> 00:47:46,986
what is allowed to be put into a certain

891
00:47:47,066 --> 00:47:47,366
area.

892
00:47:49,166 --> 00:47:49,346
So

893
00:47:50,546 --> 00:47:53,206
with that, we can't tell you to put in single families.

894
00:47:53,266 --> 00:47:55,766
Yes, but I'd like to see more single family homes as well.

895
00:47:56,006 --> 00:47:58,926
I know that they're almost unachievable now with the price range of where they're

896
00:47:58,966 --> 00:48:02,926
at. So more and more people have to find rentable places, and trying to

897
00:48:02,946 --> 00:48:04,666
get density into the city is

898
00:48:06,206 --> 00:48:09,086
definitely a help to bring workforce and so forth in.

899
00:48:09,766 --> 00:48:13,546
So with the design aspect of it and the phasing with the

900
00:48:13,586 --> 00:48:14,736
sidewalks, I

901
00:48:15,946 --> 00:48:18,986
can't see anything wrong with proceeding with this project.

902
00:48:20,046 --> 00:48:22,006
Does anybody else have any other comments?

903
00:48:23,026 --> 00:48:23,366
Karen?

904
00:48:23,726 --> 00:48:27,566
Yeah. I just had a question. On here, and you said

905
00:48:27,626 --> 00:48:30,926
they donated the property to the church.

906
00:48:31,106 --> 00:48:31,206
Mm-hmm.

907
00:48:31,306 --> 00:48:33,046
Is that zoned?

908
00:48:34,766 --> 00:48:36,646
Would it be able to work as a church?

909
00:48:36,706 --> 00:48:38,966
There's already a Calvary on Spring.

910
00:48:41,726 --> 00:48:45,526
Because one of the plans shows Calvary

911
00:48:45,626 --> 00:48:46,366
Church.

912
00:48:46,826 --> 00:48:50,606
Calvary Church is the property owner, but the use of that church is actually still

913
00:48:50,626 --> 00:48:54,166
being utilized as a residential structure, a single family structure.

914
00:48:55,226 --> 00:48:55,526
It is

915
00:48:57,326 --> 00:48:58,226
being used...

916
00:48:59,246 --> 00:49:03,126
It does not meet the definition of a treatment facility that would require

917
00:49:03,166 --> 00:49:07,146
any kind of approvals. I guess it is not part of

918
00:49:07,166 --> 00:49:07,276
this

919
00:49:08,246 --> 00:49:10,266
application, but where it came out, I can share.

920
00:49:10,306 --> 00:49:12,146
I did reach out and I did speak to the church.

921
00:49:12,606 --> 00:49:16,446
That specific church does run a

922
00:49:16,586 --> 00:49:20,506
faith-based program where they meet with

923
00:49:20,546 --> 00:49:22,766
people who are struggling with addiction.

924
00:49:23,306 --> 00:49:23,686
And

925
00:49:25,846 --> 00:49:29,066
they all live together and kind of learn the faith of that church.

926
00:49:29,546 --> 00:49:33,126
It, again, does not meet the therapeutic threshold to be a treatment

927
00:49:33,206 --> 00:49:36,826
facility because it is more this just faith-based

928
00:49:37,126 --> 00:49:38,166
residential living.

929
00:49:39,046 --> 00:49:39,726
But it is

930
00:49:40,746 --> 00:49:42,546
being used as a residential facility.

931
00:49:42,966 --> 00:49:44,626
So it doesn't need the medical component either?

932
00:49:44,966 --> 00:49:45,126
No.

933
00:49:45,326 --> 00:49:45,356
Okay.

934
00:49:45,386 --> 00:49:46,266
There's no medication

935
00:49:47,356 --> 00:49:49,356
Okay. I was just curious because I saw that and I-

936
00:49:49,416 --> 00:49:49,476
Yep

937
00:49:49,516 --> 00:49:52,476
... I'm just trying to get my bearings there.

938
00:49:53,736 --> 00:49:56,176
So yeah, the buildings do look nice.

939
00:49:56,256 --> 00:50:00,236
It is unfortunate with a property this size that we cannot seem to

940
00:50:00,276 --> 00:50:03,756
utilize more single family. We're doing nothing to generate wealth or

941
00:50:03,776 --> 00:50:07,596
generational wealth. We're just a rental town, and that's

942
00:50:07,636 --> 00:50:08,366
what's unfortunate.

943
00:50:09,216 --> 00:50:12,006
But these do look more like homes and not-

944
00:50:14,026 --> 00:50:17,576
... boxes. You didn't allude to any price point on a one-bedroom or two-bedroom.

945
00:50:17,636 --> 00:50:21,496
I know that's probably really far out to kind of dictate that, but market

946
00:50:21,536 --> 00:50:23,456
rent right now, ballpark?

947
00:50:25,716 --> 00:50:29,366
Yeah. Yeah. I'm honestly not sure where they're going to be at with the twos and

948
00:50:29,396 --> 00:50:29,736
the ones.

949
00:50:30,556 --> 00:50:34,436
When they're done, it'll be prevailing rates at that point.

950
00:50:34,676 --> 00:50:35,796
Right. Okay. Thank you.

951
00:50:37,436 --> 00:50:38,896
Thank you, Robin. Yes, Ariana.

952
00:50:40,316 --> 00:50:42,936
Justin, I'm saying this to you because we see you so often here.

953
00:50:43,436 --> 00:50:47,176
Respectfully, saying that a one-bedroom apartment is going to be cheaper than a

954
00:50:47,216 --> 00:50:50,056
two-bedroom apartment is not affordable housing.

955
00:50:50,336 --> 00:50:53,746
I hear what you're saying about offering a mix of different size units for people

956
00:50:53,776 --> 00:50:57,546
who have a lot of different needs. I completely appreciate that, but I

957
00:50:57,576 --> 00:51:01,566
expect that these one bedrooms will be at least $2,000 a month for rent, and that's

958
00:51:01,596 --> 00:51:03,716
simply not affordable.

959
00:51:04,676 --> 00:51:05,216
And that's okay.

960
00:51:06,476 --> 00:51:10,196
This doesn't have to be affordable housing because we need a mix of housing for

961
00:51:10,216 --> 00:51:13,936
people at all income levels, but I just want to say that for the board

962
00:51:13,976 --> 00:51:15,516
and for the future.

963
00:51:16,436 --> 00:51:19,576
And I just had a question. I really appreciate the thought that was put into the

964
00:51:19,616 --> 00:51:21,836
sidewalk project, and I think that's a great

965
00:51:23,236 --> 00:51:24,936
use of the public space requirement.

966
00:51:25,276 --> 00:51:29,236
But can you just elaborate on the conflicts that have come up when there is

967
00:51:29,256 --> 00:51:32,736
access to a trail that's within a subdivision?

968
00:51:33,116 --> 00:51:36,976
The only place that I'm familiar with this is on RE Drive, where there's two public

969
00:51:36,986 --> 00:51:40,656
parking spots for the trail up there, and I was just thinking, why not have two

970
00:51:40,676 --> 00:51:44,026
parking spots for this trail per the Parks Commission's recommendation,

971
00:51:44,096 --> 00:51:47,796
but would defer to the city's... If you could just elaborate on

972
00:51:48,056 --> 00:51:49,746
what the problems have been other than

973
00:51:50,596 --> 00:51:53,986
people who live there don't like seeing somebody they don't know walk through their

974
00:51:54,016 --> 00:51:55,236
driveway, which to me is like,

975
00:51:57,056 --> 00:51:58,216
I'm not too worried about that.

976
00:51:59,876 --> 00:52:01,376
Well, that is part of the problem-

977
00:52:02,636 --> 00:52:03,736
... is that I think,

978
00:52:06,336 --> 00:52:09,916
to be fair, less so in a rental

979
00:52:09,976 --> 00:52:10,996
complex because it's being

980
00:52:12,016 --> 00:52:15,926
governed as one, and so it's a lot harder

981
00:52:15,936 --> 00:52:19,916
if somebody... Like if it were an L Maple, just for example, this did

982
00:52:19,956 --> 00:52:23,156
not occur there, but I'm just using it as an example, where a developer came in and

983
00:52:23,196 --> 00:52:26,076
they built the road and the individual lots, and then other folks came in and

984
00:52:26,136 --> 00:52:30,066
bought them. So the people who are living there didn't realize maybe that there

985
00:52:30,076 --> 00:52:33,086
was a public access easement on their property when they bought it, and then that

986
00:52:33,096 --> 00:52:35,336
can become a strong point of conflict.

987
00:52:35,376 --> 00:52:38,896
And then we get lots of calls about that, and then people get frustrated when we

988
00:52:38,956 --> 00:52:42,075
can't do anything, and so it ends up just being a conflict.

989
00:52:42,156 --> 00:52:42,635
Mm-hmm.

990
00:52:43,336 --> 00:52:46,426
In this one, the RE Drive is a good example,

991
00:52:47,516 --> 00:52:51,496
and I'll touch on this later, but it doesn't

992
00:52:51,536 --> 00:52:55,016
end up getting utilized that much because people don't know it's there.

993
00:52:55,976 --> 00:52:59,906
And then once people don't know it's there and it's not being utilized,

994
00:53:00,816 --> 00:53:04,736
the fact that it's there gets forgotten by everybody, and it does end up being

995
00:53:04,816 --> 00:53:07,516
something that is on everyone's mind at the moment of approval and then kind of

996
00:53:07,536 --> 00:53:08,376
falls off the table.

997
00:53:08,656 --> 00:53:08,856
Mm-hmm.

998
00:53:09,176 --> 00:53:13,165
So where there's a situation where if there were an existing trail along

999
00:53:13,176 --> 00:53:15,876
the back, I think that that would make sense to continue it, but where the entire

1000
00:53:15,916 --> 00:53:19,136
trail is and then the existence of entering the property, doing the loop, and going

1001
00:53:19,236 --> 00:53:20,316
out, that's where it didn't seem

1002
00:53:22,436 --> 00:53:23,916
like it made sense in this instance.

1003
00:53:24,296 --> 00:53:27,436
Okay. That makes sense to me, too, but thanks for explaining it for future

1004
00:53:27,476 --> 00:53:27,896
projects.

1005
00:53:27,976 --> 00:53:28,696
Mm-hmm.

1006
00:53:29,716 --> 00:53:30,056
Lucas.

1007
00:53:30,836 --> 00:53:34,796
I'm just curious, Dustin, do you know if the donated parcel,

1008
00:53:34,916 --> 00:53:38,796
the oversight of that, will be given to the same entity

1009
00:53:38,836 --> 00:53:42,696
that runs the sober living parcel abutting the

1010
00:53:42,716 --> 00:53:43,116
property?

1011
00:53:46,936 --> 00:53:48,966
So, the ownership of

1012
00:53:50,496 --> 00:53:54,016
the farmhouse? So the one that's already been conveyed off, are you talking about

1013
00:53:54,036 --> 00:53:55,946
the other two lots that are being created? Yeah.

1014
00:53:56,056 --> 00:53:59,776
You'd mentioned the part had been donated and just wondering if it's connected to

1015
00:53:59,816 --> 00:54:00,356
the abutter.

1016
00:54:01,776 --> 00:54:02,436
No. So,

1017
00:54:03,356 --> 00:54:05,946
the one that's already been conveyed,

1018
00:54:08,635 --> 00:54:12,306
the intent is not for either of these two lots that are being

1019
00:54:12,336 --> 00:54:16,276
created to also be managed by that same

1020
00:54:16,336 --> 00:54:16,636
owner.

1021
00:54:16,916 --> 00:54:17,416
Okay.

1022
00:54:18,056 --> 00:54:19,256
Yeah, there's no intent there.

1023
00:54:19,396 --> 00:54:19,406
Mm-hmm.

1024
00:54:20,616 --> 00:54:24,176
I think there'll be, again, a residential duplex constructed on one of the lots,

1025
00:54:24,736 --> 00:54:27,056
and then that existing barn building,

1026
00:54:28,616 --> 00:54:29,076
I think

1027
00:54:29,996 --> 00:54:33,776
in the beginning might just be used for storage during construction and everything.

1028
00:54:33,856 --> 00:54:37,816
They might keep some of their maintenance equipment in there and stuff like that.

1029
00:54:38,056 --> 00:54:41,936
Okay. Yeah, just clarifying because it sounded like the two components had been

1030
00:54:41,976 --> 00:54:44,616
conflated in the previous abutter comment.

1031
00:54:45,436 --> 00:54:45,816
Thank you.

1032
00:54:48,356 --> 00:54:48,856
Anybody else?

1033
00:54:51,556 --> 00:54:52,256
Jason.

1034
00:54:53,336 --> 00:54:53,936
Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1035
00:54:57,036 --> 00:55:00,776
Just curious about if there's been traffic counts done out there for

1036
00:55:00,796 --> 00:55:01,496
Saco Street?

1037
00:55:03,616 --> 00:55:07,376
So we didn't do site-specific traffic counts to generate

1038
00:55:07,476 --> 00:55:10,236
what the background traffic is going down Saco.

1039
00:55:10,676 --> 00:55:14,516
We did trip generation calculations just for this project,

1040
00:55:15,516 --> 00:55:18,186
but didn't necessarily

1041
00:55:18,456 --> 00:55:21,116
analyze the whole corridor.

1042
00:55:21,176 --> 00:55:21,376
Okay.

1043
00:55:22,676 --> 00:55:23,025
With the

1044
00:55:24,316 --> 00:55:26,776
amount of units, does it require a traffic study?

1045
00:55:27,636 --> 00:55:27,716
No?

1046
00:55:28,056 --> 00:55:29,216
Not that I'm aware of, no.

1047
00:55:30,416 --> 00:55:30,556
No.

1048
00:55:31,856 --> 00:55:32,936
All right. Okay.

1049
00:55:33,836 --> 00:55:34,276
Design.

1050
00:55:35,076 --> 00:55:37,836
I really like the design. I think it looks really nice.

1051
00:55:38,936 --> 00:55:42,896
But I agree, the mechanical shed

1052
00:55:42,996 --> 00:55:46,976
should not be the front. That's the first thing you see.

1053
00:55:48,936 --> 00:55:49,576
Looking at this

1054
00:55:50,436 --> 00:55:54,036
and those pictures there, if you rotated building A 180

1055
00:55:54,076 --> 00:55:57,936
degrees, put the shed in the back, and then building B rotated it 90 degrees

1056
00:55:58,276 --> 00:56:01,024
clockwise, it would look like Kind of like that up there.

1057
00:56:01,064 --> 00:56:03,644
It'll look like two different buildings, but it's the same building.

1058
00:56:04,424 --> 00:56:06,543
And, it would hide the sheds.

1059
00:56:07,724 --> 00:56:07,884
But,

1060
00:56:09,024 --> 00:56:10,004
nice design.

1061
00:56:11,804 --> 00:56:12,444
Parking lot.

1062
00:56:13,574 --> 00:56:14,504
That is a lot of asphalt.

1063
00:56:17,204 --> 00:56:20,904
I mean,

1064
00:56:21,724 --> 00:56:24,084
it is what it is. But

1065
00:56:25,224 --> 00:56:28,464
if there's any chance to soften this up a bit,

1066
00:56:30,864 --> 00:56:31,424
that would be

1067
00:56:32,424 --> 00:56:34,044
definitely beneficial.

1068
00:56:35,004 --> 00:56:36,344
Because that is a big parking lot

1069
00:56:37,344 --> 00:56:38,284
coming into the entrance.

1070
00:56:40,244 --> 00:56:41,464
One of the things we did is

1071
00:56:42,524 --> 00:56:45,484
we narrowed up the driveway entrance coming in.

1072
00:56:45,544 --> 00:56:49,464
One of the things, by moving the development further back into the lot and

1073
00:56:49,504 --> 00:56:53,414
not having parking up in that first few hundred feet, we're

1074
00:56:53,444 --> 00:56:54,904
able to go with a narrower-

1075
00:56:55,204 --> 00:56:55,294
Mm-hmm

1076
00:56:55,784 --> 00:56:59,404
... driveway section up until the point where we have to do 90-degree

1077
00:56:59,504 --> 00:57:02,724
parking. At that point, we need to provide enough space so you're not backing into

1078
00:57:02,764 --> 00:57:06,624
vehicles and causing damage. So we tried to keep it neck

1079
00:57:06,644 --> 00:57:10,404
down for as long as we could, and then eventually we kind of got to the spots where

1080
00:57:10,444 --> 00:57:13,344
we had to have parking, so then we had to widen it up at that point.

1081
00:57:20,244 --> 00:57:23,964
Yeah. Is there any discussion about putting a fence between the

1082
00:57:24,004 --> 00:57:25,524
farmhouse and

1083
00:57:27,724 --> 00:57:28,364
Building A?

1084
00:57:29,724 --> 00:57:31,004
I assume that's the farmhouse, the

1085
00:57:33,444 --> 00:57:34,044
kind of like the S-

1086
00:57:34,284 --> 00:57:34,294
Yeah

1087
00:57:34,294 --> 00:57:35,764
... kind of like that L-shaped one there.

1088
00:57:36,664 --> 00:57:40,064
Yeah. In that case there,

1089
00:57:42,224 --> 00:57:45,864
that's already a big building. It's probably as

1090
00:57:45,904 --> 00:57:49,724
tall as these new buildings that are going

1091
00:57:49,804 --> 00:57:50,004
in.

1092
00:57:51,144 --> 00:57:54,944
So it didn't look like something where something on the ground per

1093
00:57:55,044 --> 00:57:55,744
se would

1094
00:57:56,864 --> 00:58:00,564
do much for the buildings, because of kind of how close they are and

1095
00:58:00,884 --> 00:58:03,124
the fact that all of the buildings are pretty large.

1096
00:58:03,804 --> 00:58:07,784
So we looked at, basically, we also

1097
00:58:07,824 --> 00:58:09,644
have some drainage that runs in between,

1098
00:58:10,864 --> 00:58:13,784
kind of around the backside of the farmhouse heading towards the garage.

1099
00:58:13,824 --> 00:58:15,464
It kind of breaks in two directions there.

1100
00:58:17,204 --> 00:58:20,604
So there's a few things going on there where just trying to create a physical

1101
00:58:20,704 --> 00:58:23,304
barrier there didn't make a lot of sense to us.

1102
00:58:23,664 --> 00:58:27,584
Certainly going forward, if the church feels like a fence

1103
00:58:27,604 --> 00:58:29,604
is required, we kind of have a strip in between-

1104
00:58:29,664 --> 00:58:29,694
Mm-hmm

1105
00:58:30,244 --> 00:58:34,104
... the church property and the retained land, this

1106
00:58:34,184 --> 00:58:35,744
Lot 3, where that

1107
00:58:36,704 --> 00:58:40,024
single-family house lot kind of, it's like an L shape there.

1108
00:58:42,544 --> 00:58:45,404
So I think doing a fence along that line too, we'd have to kind of figure out kind

1109
00:58:45,444 --> 00:58:48,864
of where it would go. But certainly opportunity to do one, but at this point-

1110
00:58:50,184 --> 00:58:50,344
Okay

1111
00:58:50,824 --> 00:58:52,004
... I don't know that it's needed.

1112
00:58:52,284 --> 00:58:53,104
Right. Yeah, and it

1113
00:58:54,184 --> 00:58:54,504
sounds like

1114
00:58:55,684 --> 00:58:58,004
it was owned by the developer.

1115
00:58:58,284 --> 00:58:58,564
Yes.

1116
00:58:58,624 --> 00:58:58,944
Yeah, so.

1117
00:58:59,024 --> 00:58:59,304
Correct.

1118
00:59:00,124 --> 00:59:01,424
Kind of up to them. So.

1119
00:59:01,764 --> 00:59:01,844
Yeah.

1120
00:59:01,884 --> 00:59:02,444
All right. Well, thanks.

1121
00:59:04,724 --> 00:59:05,984
Thank you, Jason. Anybody else?

1122
00:59:07,504 --> 00:59:08,204
Go ahead, Rebecca.

1123
00:59:08,624 --> 00:59:11,344
If the board's all finished with their comments, I don't mind if I could say

1124
00:59:11,384 --> 00:59:11,824
something quickly.

1125
00:59:11,844 --> 00:59:12,184
Yeah, go ahead.

1126
00:59:12,444 --> 00:59:16,324
Yep. I just wanted to speak to Kathy for a minute

1127
00:59:16,364 --> 00:59:18,144
and acknowledge the

1128
00:59:19,944 --> 00:59:23,124
concern you're feeling about the feeling of the multifamily next to the single

1129
00:59:23,204 --> 00:59:27,084
family, and that that can feel very jarring when it hasn't been

1130
00:59:27,124 --> 00:59:28,344
built yet. And it will be different.

1131
00:59:28,424 --> 00:59:30,984
We cannot deny that having development next will be...

1132
00:59:31,224 --> 00:59:34,864
Some of the previous iterations of this did include more duplex style,

1133
00:59:35,204 --> 00:59:37,864
but the trade-off to that was then it went all the way to the back, and so you were

1134
00:59:37,904 --> 00:59:39,164
clearing all the way in the back.

1135
00:59:40,184 --> 00:59:44,104
So there's the benefits of this kind of being clustered

1136
00:59:44,164 --> 00:59:47,844
up front, maintaining the back as a vegetated wild area versus

1137
00:59:47,944 --> 00:59:50,983
clearing in the back and losing that habitat.

1138
00:59:51,964 --> 00:59:55,644
There's also topographical challenges in this particular parcel that lent

1139
00:59:55,964 --> 00:59:57,784
its way to this development.

1140
00:59:58,684 --> 01:00:00,444
But I wanted to

1141
01:00:01,504 --> 01:00:05,004
let you know that the board, I was going to remind the board of this later, so I'm

1142
01:00:05,284 --> 01:00:07,364
just going to remind you now. But the board's going to be holding a

1143
01:00:07,404 --> 01:00:10,924
post-construction site walk, specifically to take a look at a couple

1144
01:00:10,944 --> 01:00:14,344
developments that show the integration of multifamily and single-family

1145
01:00:14,424 --> 01:00:18,374
homes. Because one thing that I think a lot of people don't realize is that

1146
01:00:18,384 --> 01:00:21,734
we are very much a mixed housing type

1147
01:00:22,364 --> 01:00:26,144
city, really. We have a mix of single family, duplexes, triplexes,

1148
01:00:26,224 --> 01:00:30,144
multis, all over the place. And I think a lot of times people don't see

1149
01:00:30,164 --> 01:00:33,624
them because once they're built, they really nestle in and they just settle out.

1150
01:00:34,884 --> 01:00:38,704
One of the sites we're going to be visiting actually is the same developer

1151
01:00:39,084 --> 01:00:42,864
and has a similar building style that might, if you are

1152
01:00:42,904 --> 01:00:44,984
interested, you may enjoy coming and seeing.

1153
01:00:45,864 --> 01:00:49,064
If you are interested in that, please reach out to the planning department and we

1154
01:00:49,104 --> 01:00:52,424
can let you know the information of that, what time, where to

1155
01:00:52,524 --> 01:00:56,394
meet. We're going to be visiting three different sites and just meeting at

1156
01:00:56,424 --> 01:00:59,524
one and kind of going on to the next one whenever we're finished at the one.

1157
01:00:59,954 --> 01:01:02,484
But it could be an opportunity for you to just sort of see that

1158
01:01:03,524 --> 01:01:05,324
integration once it's constructed.

1159
01:01:07,384 --> 01:01:08,204
Do you want to say anything?

1160
01:01:09,244 --> 01:01:09,504
No.

1161
01:01:11,824 --> 01:01:12,744
Yes. Come on up.

1162
01:01:13,704 --> 01:01:14,084
For me?

1163
01:01:14,244 --> 01:01:14,754
You have to come to the microphone.

1164
01:01:14,764 --> 01:01:15,964
You have to come on up to the microphone.

1165
01:01:16,444 --> 01:01:16,653
Oh, sorry.

1166
01:01:16,653 --> 01:01:18,723
Sorry. They can't hear you on record.

1167
01:01:20,664 --> 01:01:22,904
I think my main concern is more with the numbers.

1168
01:01:23,244 --> 01:01:24,064
The numbers of

1169
01:01:25,264 --> 01:01:29,124
units, and the number of cars that are going to be there, and

1170
01:01:29,204 --> 01:01:32,724
the access, and the diagram. I mean, I am not

1171
01:01:32,764 --> 01:01:35,514
100% single family homes, if there were

1172
01:01:35,544 --> 01:01:39,004
duplexes or something like that. It's just the sheer

1173
01:01:39,064 --> 01:01:42,284
numbers of what is going to be in there.

1174
01:01:43,564 --> 01:01:47,044
And, well, 172, but we've also seen something that

1175
01:01:47,744 --> 01:01:50,484
referred to 184 units going in there.

1176
01:01:51,444 --> 01:01:54,164
And I've seen that on some paperwork.

1177
01:01:55,004 --> 01:01:56,644
Thank you for saying that again. I had that down.

1178
01:01:56,744 --> 01:01:59,804
It's not 184, it's 84. So

1179
01:02:00,024 --> 01:02:04,004
there's seven 12 unit buildings, so the

1180
01:02:04,044 --> 01:02:06,164
full build out, the full master plan is 84.

1181
01:02:06,204 --> 01:02:07,264
Yeah, 84. I'm sorry. Yeah.

1182
01:02:07,284 --> 01:02:07,954
No, that's okay. I just wanted to-

1183
01:02:07,954 --> 01:02:08,164
I'm sorry.

1184
01:02:08,544 --> 01:02:08,554
Yep.

1185
01:02:08,564 --> 01:02:09,884
But it's just the sheer numbers of

1186
01:02:11,220 --> 01:02:15,080
People and vehicles, and where are you gonna

1187
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:17,680
park all the vehicles? People are gonna live there.

1188
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:19,900
A lot of people are gonna live there. There are gonna be people in and out.

1189
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,700
They're gonna have company. You're gonna have deliveries.

1190
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:26,980
And I don't think any of us really

1191
01:02:27,060 --> 01:02:30,220
expected that it was gonna be all single-family homes.

1192
01:02:30,230 --> 01:02:33,360
It just wasn't realistic at this point in

1193
01:02:33,420 --> 01:02:34,940
time. So-

1194
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,770
We have parking ordinances, so each

1195
01:02:38,780 --> 01:02:42,310
building that has to be maintained in the city, no matter what it is,

1196
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:46,580
whether it's a house, whether it's an apartment, whether it's a duplex, has to

1197
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:50,280
have the standard amount of parking spots per

1198
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:53,680
unit. So any time there's a unit being built, whether it's a

1199
01:02:53,700 --> 01:02:57,580
multifamily, they have to abide by the city code of

1200
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:01,320
ordinances, the amount of parking to be able to

1201
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:04,180
handle the amount of units that are gonna be developed.

1202
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:07,880
So you're not gonna have any overflow on Saco Street as far as that goes.

1203
01:03:07,930 --> 01:03:07,930
Okay.

1204
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:11,720
If there needs to be more parking, if

1205
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:12,950
the development gets bigger,

1206
01:03:14,060 --> 01:03:17,800
normally we can add additional parking for visitors.

1207
01:03:17,930 --> 01:03:19,760
And usually, the developer will do that.

1208
01:03:20,180 --> 01:03:22,800
So we're not gonna have any parking on Saco Street per se.

1209
01:03:23,980 --> 01:03:27,140
There's gonna be plenty of room for the residents to park within their-

1210
01:03:27,210 --> 01:03:27,210
Okay

1211
01:03:27,210 --> 01:03:28,360
... complex without any...

1212
01:03:29,180 --> 01:03:33,150
This parking lot's pretty big as it is, what we see on both sides.

1213
01:03:33,660 --> 01:03:37,160
So there's definitely enough. It's 1.75 parking spots

1214
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:41,160
per unit, and that's plenty sufficient, what we've seen

1215
01:03:41,220 --> 01:03:43,900
for any other application in the city. So.

1216
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:48,040
And then the other, of course, the main concern was traffic in and out, which

1217
01:03:48,340 --> 01:03:52,100
now that you've got a new road coming in off the

1218
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:56,080
back end of Idex. We have another driveway coming in

1219
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:57,820
across the street from that. It just

1220
01:03:58,840 --> 01:03:59,860
gets crazy. So.

1221
01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:00,360
Mm-hmm.

1222
01:04:00,580 --> 01:04:00,590
Thank you.

1223
01:04:00,620 --> 01:04:02,380
I understand your concern. Thank you.

1224
01:04:05,580 --> 01:04:06,560
With that, we do have a-

1225
01:04:07,020 --> 01:04:07,030
Mr. Chair?

1226
01:04:07,030 --> 01:04:07,820
Go ahead, John.

1227
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,030
Just because it's come up again, through you to the planner,

1228
01:04:14,180 --> 01:04:17,560
Saco Street's a state road, and we can't control that. Is that how that works?

1229
01:04:18,450 --> 01:04:21,380
When it comes to speed limits, that's a state issue?

1230
01:04:22,340 --> 01:04:24,980
It is a state-designated speed limit, yes.

1231
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:26,440
All right. And

1232
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:30,540
is that ever affected by the amount of

1233
01:04:32,660 --> 01:04:35,420
maybe curb cuts or cars entering it?

1234
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:39,420
For example, the creation of 24 units doesn't require a traffic study, but

1235
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:43,260
that's theoretically. Twenty-four more entries and exits onto a road,

1236
01:04:43,700 --> 01:04:46,880
does that ever factor into speed limit designations as far as you

1237
01:04:46,940 --> 01:04:47,800
know?

1238
01:04:47,900 --> 01:04:51,800
It does not. Speed limit factors into the location

1239
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:55,120
of curb cuts and entrances in order to determine that there's an adequate sight

1240
01:04:55,180 --> 01:04:55,680
distance-

1241
01:04:55,829 --> 01:04:55,829
Sight distance

1242
01:04:55,829 --> 01:04:59,460
... in that speed, right. But the entrance itself wouldn't affect the speed of the

1243
01:04:59,500 --> 01:04:59,720
road.

1244
01:04:59,960 --> 01:05:00,620
Okay. Thank you.

1245
01:05:02,700 --> 01:05:03,620
Good question, John.

1246
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:09,320
With that, I have a motion on page 10 of our memo.

1247
01:05:15,260 --> 01:05:16,250
Anybody entertain? John?

1248
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:20,180
Mr. Chair, I move that the planning board approve the site plan

1249
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,960
subdivision application for MTR Development LLC

1250
01:05:24,540 --> 01:05:28,400
to subdivide parcel previously addressed as 547 Saco

1251
01:05:28,460 --> 01:05:32,380
Street into three separate lots, and the construction of an 800-foot driveway

1252
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:36,300
to provide access to the development of two 12-unit multifamily

1253
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:40,300
buildings on Lot 3, Tax Map 4, Lot 13, Zoned

1254
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:44,200
Residential Growth Area 2. Approval includes the following findings of fact,

1255
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:47,889
conclusions, and conditions as stated on pages 10 through 15 of the

1256
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:52,040
staff memo dated July 31st, 2026, which are adopted in

1257
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:53,000
support of this approval.

1258
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:55,500
Thank you. Can I have a second, please?

1259
01:05:56,380 --> 01:05:56,660
Second.

1260
01:05:58,300 --> 01:05:59,140
Thank you, Robin.

1261
01:05:59,940 --> 01:06:01,160
Can I have a roll call vote, please?

1262
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:07,400
Robin Tannenbaum? Yes.

1263
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:09,780
Nancy Litercapes?

1264
01:06:10,500 --> 01:06:10,800
Yes.

1265
01:06:12,380 --> 01:06:13,000
Jason Frazier?

1266
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:13,700
Yes.

1267
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:16,160
Karen Axelson? Yes.

1268
01:06:17,140 --> 01:06:17,820
Kevin Price?

1269
01:06:18,140 --> 01:06:18,360
Yes.

1270
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:20,200
Lucas Shrake?

1271
01:06:20,420 --> 01:06:20,600
Yes.

1272
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:22,260
Oriana Farnham?

1273
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:22,800
Yes.

1274
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:24,840
John Turcotte?

1275
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:25,580
Yes.

1276
01:06:26,500 --> 01:06:27,440
And Larry McWilliams.

1277
01:06:27,860 --> 01:06:31,740
Yes. Seeing unanimous. Thank you, Dustin, for that presentation.

1278
01:06:32,060 --> 01:06:32,360
Thank you.

1279
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:36,660
I also need now a motion to go into workshop, please.

1280
01:06:38,060 --> 01:06:39,060
So moved, Mr. Chair.

1281
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:40,200
Thank you, Nancy.

1282
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:40,680
Second.

1283
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:44,380
Thanks, Kevin. Can I get another roll call vote, Jenna, please?

1284
01:06:48,900 --> 01:06:52,220
Robin Tannenbaum? Yes. Nancy Litercapes?

1285
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:53,480
Yes.

1286
01:06:54,020 --> 01:06:54,680
Jason Frazier?

1287
01:06:55,260 --> 01:06:55,460
Yes.

1288
01:06:56,020 --> 01:06:58,640
Karen Axelson? Yes. Kevin Price?

1289
01:06:58,740 --> 01:06:58,920
Yes.

1290
01:06:59,580 --> 01:07:00,300
Lucas Shrake?

1291
01:07:00,340 --> 01:07:00,540
Yes.

1292
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:01,740
Oriana Farnham?

1293
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:02,180
Yes.

1294
01:07:03,100 --> 01:07:03,740
John Turcotte?

1295
01:07:04,020 --> 01:07:04,220
Yes.

1296
01:07:04,580 --> 01:07:05,500
And Larry McWilliams.

1297
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:09,700
Yes. Thank you. With that, Orlando, can you read the next

1298
01:07:09,780 --> 01:07:10,800
item into the record, please?

1299
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:16,180
Item number 26-000635, Site

1300
01:07:16,300 --> 01:07:19,400
Plan 100 Larabee Road, 100 Larabee LLC.

1301
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:23,540
The applicant is requesting an expansion to provide 34 additional parking

1302
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:27,160
spaces to the Larabee complex. Tax Map 042B,

1303
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:31,500
Lot 006, Zone Gateway Commercial, Use Retail,

1304
01:07:31,620 --> 01:07:32,780
Restaurant Class 2.

1305
01:07:34,340 --> 01:07:36,960
Thank you. With that, applicant presentation, please.

1306
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:39,380
Good evening, members of the board.

1307
01:07:39,420 --> 01:07:43,010
My name's Henry Hess, Spiga Technics, representing the applicant tonight at

1308
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:47,090
Larabee Road. And I'm just gonna pull up my presentation

1309
01:07:47,140 --> 01:07:47,760
here.

1310
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:02,320
So before the board, as stated, is a parking

1311
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:03,840
expansion at 100 Larabee Road,

1312
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,580
proposed parking expansion. To orient you briefly,

1313
01:08:09,300 --> 01:08:12,460
the site centered in the picture here, Larabee Road

1314
01:08:13,180 --> 01:08:13,580
running

1315
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:16,960
to the south of the site here, or Page South,

1316
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:20,820
Main Street to the right side, and Terminal Street

1317
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:22,800
to the left

1318
01:08:23,692 --> 01:08:25,362
It's a large building

1319
01:08:26,753 --> 01:08:30,392
with a separate building as well adjacent to it, multi-tenant

1320
01:08:30,432 --> 01:08:32,333
commercial style building.

1321
01:08:34,413 --> 01:08:36,293
If I go to the next page here.

1322
01:08:43,852 --> 01:08:44,373
There we go.

1323
01:08:48,253 --> 01:08:49,272
Here it goes.

1324
01:08:51,572 --> 01:08:52,132
Too far.

1325
01:08:53,572 --> 01:08:54,262
Exists today.

1326
01:08:55,333 --> 01:08:58,892
Like I said, just briefly wanted to show existing conditions that were out there,

1327
01:09:00,333 --> 01:09:00,952
and then

1328
01:09:02,293 --> 01:09:05,272
if we could just get this to...

1329
01:09:06,272 --> 01:09:10,012
What's being proposed is approximately 33 parking

1330
01:09:10,032 --> 01:09:10,562
spaces

1331
01:09:11,833 --> 01:09:15,632
expanded at this site. There's currently

1332
01:09:15,772 --> 01:09:16,552
333.

1333
01:09:19,333 --> 01:09:21,333
The shift itself,

1334
01:09:22,352 --> 01:09:26,272
or the addition itself is majority in that western corner of the

1335
01:09:26,312 --> 01:09:27,713
parcel along Terminal Street.

1336
01:09:29,452 --> 01:09:33,392
In order to find that additional parking, a lot of it entails shifting

1337
01:09:33,413 --> 01:09:35,492
that driveway entrance to the west.

1338
01:09:36,672 --> 01:09:37,512
That provides

1339
01:09:38,373 --> 01:09:41,592
adequate space for a long row of parking, and then

1340
01:09:41,612 --> 01:09:45,052
expanding the interior parking and providing

1341
01:09:45,532 --> 01:09:47,272
parking islands in the center as well.

1342
01:09:49,352 --> 01:09:53,312
There are a number of spots dotted

1343
01:09:53,322 --> 01:09:55,812
throughout the site beyond that, about five

1344
01:09:56,852 --> 01:10:00,072
on the left side of Larabee Road, one on the right

1345
01:10:01,572 --> 01:10:02,452
side of Larabee Road,

1346
01:10:03,892 --> 01:10:07,832
and then a few to the rear back right where we

1347
01:10:07,912 --> 01:10:11,772
have proposed some one-way directional access.

1348
01:10:12,472 --> 01:10:15,532
A lot of the parking, the reason that one-way directional access is proposed, a lot

1349
01:10:15,552 --> 01:10:18,672
of the parking that comes through there and the access is one-way parking.

1350
01:10:20,452 --> 01:10:24,112
And right now, the way a lot of the tenants use the

1351
01:10:24,292 --> 01:10:28,092
site, a lot of drop-off happens to the rear

1352
01:10:28,192 --> 01:10:30,852
for some of the tenants at specific times,

1353
01:10:31,732 --> 01:10:35,392
and that circulation just helps keep some of the cars a little bit more organized

1354
01:10:35,452 --> 01:10:39,172
in there as opposed to a lot of crisscross traffic as people drop off, either

1355
01:10:40,612 --> 01:10:44,452
people attending either events to the rear or going into

1356
01:10:44,532 --> 01:10:46,532
the uses into the rear as well.

1357
01:10:47,992 --> 01:10:51,772
So the site itself is proposing minimal expansion

1358
01:10:51,892 --> 01:10:55,612
of impervious, albeit there is an expansion of about 6,000 square

1359
01:10:55,752 --> 01:10:56,012
feet

1360
01:10:56,812 --> 01:11:00,512
for these parking spaces. As such,

1361
01:11:00,892 --> 01:11:04,512
the project's proposing in two locations there, close to Terminal

1362
01:11:04,632 --> 01:11:04,892
Street,

1363
01:11:06,372 --> 01:11:08,012
one on the west, one on the east side there.

1364
01:11:08,472 --> 01:11:10,492
Two smaller detention or

1365
01:11:12,512 --> 01:11:16,492
stormwater basins there to detain and meet the flooding standards of the city.

1366
01:11:18,532 --> 01:11:20,392
A lot of the site water today

1367
01:11:22,352 --> 01:11:26,192
either runs into existing storm drainage and into a

1368
01:11:26,332 --> 01:11:30,232
swell around Terminal Street and actually flows to another area

1369
01:11:30,272 --> 01:11:34,192
of treatment offsite, or as well as there's an existing filterra

1370
01:11:34,232 --> 01:11:38,052
system along Terminal Street that does currently treat a

1371
01:11:38,092 --> 01:11:39,172
section of that pavement as well

1372
01:11:40,012 --> 01:11:43,412
before outletting again to that swale that runs along Terminal Street.

1373
01:11:47,992 --> 01:11:51,032
The reason this parking expansion is proposed is

1374
01:11:51,752 --> 01:11:53,252
the owner of the lot has had

1375
01:11:54,612 --> 01:11:58,592
a number of new leases with new tenants that require additional parking.

1376
01:11:58,632 --> 01:11:59,672
They've seen a lot of

1377
01:12:01,492 --> 01:12:05,352
well, full parking lots for their tenants recently and they're trying to,

1378
01:12:05,712 --> 01:12:09,612
with increased programming that those tenants have, go into the evening and

1379
01:12:09,652 --> 01:12:13,512
nighttime demands. There's kind of a new overlap in the

1380
01:12:13,792 --> 01:12:17,552
parking that's been happening there, and they're seeing a lot of congestion and

1381
01:12:17,572 --> 01:12:20,932
tenants that really need some additional parking there to suit their needs.

1382
01:12:23,192 --> 01:12:25,912
So that's why we're here before you at this workshop.

1383
01:12:26,952 --> 01:12:30,312
Part of this proposal and the expansion of impervious area

1384
01:12:31,352 --> 01:12:35,332
does mean that there's a slight reduction in the percentage of the total

1385
01:12:35,372 --> 01:12:37,372
or overall landscape area for the site.

1386
01:12:37,592 --> 01:12:40,991
I know the Gateway District, there's a 25% requirement.

1387
01:12:41,972 --> 01:12:45,452
Existing today, this site has 14%.

1388
01:12:45,672 --> 01:12:49,242
It's a larger commercial site with

1389
01:12:49,312 --> 01:12:53,252
a fair amount of paving. With the expansion, it'd be down

1390
01:12:53,272 --> 01:12:54,032
to 12%.

1391
01:12:55,212 --> 01:12:57,292
So again, a slight reduction there.

1392
01:12:57,332 --> 01:13:00,982
There will be a few trees impacted as such, about four or five trees

1393
01:13:01,032 --> 01:13:04,972
impacted for the expansion, and as part of the site plan that comes forward,

1394
01:13:05,032 --> 01:13:08,552
you'd see those trees replaced and some additional landscaping there

1395
01:13:08,932 --> 01:13:10,852
where feasible and to provide some buffering.

1396
01:13:12,152 --> 01:13:15,992
So I guess with that, I can turn my time back over to the

1397
01:13:16,012 --> 01:13:17,852
board and answer any questions you may have.

1398
01:13:18,832 --> 01:13:22,352
Certainly, I know Rebecca might have a little information as well,

1399
01:13:22,432 --> 01:13:24,352
but I'm here for the board for any questions.

1400
01:13:26,252 --> 01:13:26,932
Thank you very much.

1401
01:13:28,752 --> 01:13:29,132
Rebecca?

1402
01:13:30,352 --> 01:13:34,022
Yeah, so as Henry stated, there is a reduction in

1403
01:13:34,022 --> 01:13:37,972
the landscape on this site. Typically, that's not something that would be allowed.

1404
01:13:38,052 --> 01:13:40,812
It's already non-conforming. You're not typically allowed to increase the

1405
01:13:40,832 --> 01:13:44,272
non-conformity. However, in the Gateway Commercial District, it expressly states

1406
01:13:44,312 --> 01:13:47,772
that this can be something that the board approves if it's found that there's no

1407
01:13:47,832 --> 01:13:51,392
other reasonable alternative. There is a fee in lieu that would be

1408
01:13:51,452 --> 01:13:55,392
associated with that. We use the same calculation as we do for our open space

1409
01:13:55,432 --> 01:13:58,392
in determining that, and that funds

1410
01:13:59,892 --> 01:14:02,652
are then required to be utilized within the Main Street

1411
01:14:03,112 --> 01:14:06,312
corridor for safety or beautification improvements.

1412
01:14:07,212 --> 01:14:09,912
So Henry has been made aware of this.

1413
01:14:09,952 --> 01:14:12,812
We need to get the finalized number, but just running off of those basic

1414
01:14:12,872 --> 01:14:16,792
percentages, it's about a reduction of 6,000 square feet, which would be a fee

1415
01:14:16,812 --> 01:14:19,912
in lieu of about $13,071.

1416
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:25,920
And the only other staff comment here is that we kind of spoke

1417
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:29,720
to it briefly in the memo, but we'll need to continue to work with the applicant in

1418
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:33,560
identifying how that one-way maneuver is going to

1419
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:37,060
function. It looks functional on paper.

1420
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:41,100
However, in reality, that's pavement on the other side, so

1421
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:44,240
it's going pavement to pavement. There's no delineation of that one way, so there's

1422
01:14:44,260 --> 01:14:46,560
nothing that's really forcing a vehicle to follow that.

1423
01:14:47,060 --> 01:14:51,020
So, we may need to explore options of seeing, does this need to be in one way,

1424
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:55,040
or if it does, is there a way to delineate it or provide something in addition to

1425
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:58,520
pavement markings to encourage compliance.

1426
01:15:03,300 --> 01:15:03,880
That's all.

1427
01:15:03,940 --> 01:15:04,680
Okay. Thank you.

1428
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:07,369
Any board comments?

1429
01:15:09,060 --> 01:15:12,260
Through you to the planner. I've never seen this before where the staff memo

1430
01:15:12,300 --> 01:15:15,720
indicates that some of the proposed parking are not approved.

1431
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:20,180
So what happens if we approve... I realize we're not up to that, but if

1432
01:15:20,420 --> 01:15:23,560
it gets to the point of approval and we approve something that the fire marshal

1433
01:15:23,580 --> 01:15:27,380
doesn't allow, except for that part, it would continue

1434
01:15:27,420 --> 01:15:27,680
forward?

1435
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:31,840
Well, the staff memo are recommendations, really, to the board, but it is letting

1436
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:34,880
you know that FD does not support it, and we do generally

1437
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:38,420
follow FD's guidance for safety measures.

1438
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:41,160
There was a concern of access at that particular location.

1439
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:41,279
Right.

1440
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:41,650
So it would be-

1441
01:15:41,650 --> 01:15:42,600
It's right there in front of the entrance.

1442
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:46,350
Yep, it would be FD's recommendation to not have those located

1443
01:15:46,350 --> 01:15:46,740
there.

1444
01:15:46,780 --> 01:15:48,470
You know what? I appreciate that comment, too.

1445
01:15:48,510 --> 01:15:52,440
It's something I didn't get a chance to, I overlooked mentioning in a

1446
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:55,980
quick presentation there. It's something that we've spoken to the applicant.

1447
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:59,190
That's understandable. We've heard that comment from the fire department loud and

1448
01:15:59,240 --> 01:15:59,460
clear.

1449
01:15:59,600 --> 01:15:59,660
Okay.

1450
01:15:59,700 --> 01:16:03,280
So, any formal site plan that came forward at that point would

1451
01:16:03,780 --> 01:16:06,980
be following the fire marshal or fire recommendations.

1452
01:16:07,020 --> 01:16:08,280
Thank you.

1453
01:16:10,860 --> 01:16:11,240
Mr. Chair?

1454
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:11,960
Yes, Kevin.

1455
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:16,020
Just a quick comment. As someone who's cut it a little close on dropping

1456
01:16:16,100 --> 01:16:19,750
off a daughter at a dance here, I agree, this lot needs some work- ...

1457
01:16:19,750 --> 01:16:21,980
because you have people leaving and coming at the same time.

1458
01:16:22,110 --> 01:16:22,110
Yeah.

1459
01:16:22,140 --> 01:16:23,260
Circulation is a challenge.

1460
01:16:23,690 --> 01:16:23,690
Yeah.

1461
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:26,860
Youth, kids, it's been more than once of like, "Nope, you can't run in.

1462
01:16:26,940 --> 01:16:27,100
Stop"-

1463
01:16:27,140 --> 01:16:27,300
Yep

1464
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:31,219
... car. So, glad to see that with this, there's some thinking about that and kind

1465
01:16:31,260 --> 01:16:33,960
of the unique use of that building. So that's all.

1466
01:16:37,420 --> 01:16:37,880
Anybody else?

1467
01:16:40,780 --> 01:16:41,400
Yes, Jason.

1468
01:16:42,100 --> 01:16:42,700
Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1469
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:47,780
So, I assume this is the dance place there, or

1470
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:49,260
is this, what's causing the-

1471
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:51,440
The applicant before you is the

1472
01:16:53,620 --> 01:16:55,430
owner of the lot, not necessarily the-

1473
01:16:55,690 --> 01:16:55,690
Okay

1474
01:16:55,690 --> 01:16:58,540
... owner or the tenant of the dance studio.

1475
01:16:58,820 --> 01:17:02,280
So which business or businesses are causing-

1476
01:17:03,420 --> 01:17:03,800
Oh, yeah.

1477
01:17:03,900 --> 01:17:03,910
The-

1478
01:17:03,910 --> 01:17:06,410
To answer your question, yes, I believe some of that congestion, yes, in the

1479
01:17:06,480 --> 01:17:08,940
evening programming from the dance studio, et cetera. Yes, absolutely.

1480
01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:12,260
Okay. So I drive by here all the time, and

1481
01:17:12,380 --> 01:17:13,900
along Larabee,

1482
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:18,860
it seems like it's always empty. It doesn't seem like there's ever anybody there.

1483
01:17:18,900 --> 01:17:19,760
On the front, yeah.

1484
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:23,760
Not on the Larabee side. Which, yeah, you have to walk around the building.

1485
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:24,460
Mm-hmm.

1486
01:17:26,220 --> 01:17:30,020
Any thought... I'd be okay if you got rid of those parking spaces along

1487
01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:33,200
Larabee and then added those ones, kind of swap it,

1488
01:17:34,260 --> 01:17:36,440
put in some trees in the front there, some nice landscaping,

1489
01:17:37,260 --> 01:17:39,260
beautify the building, add more parking in the back.

1490
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:40,800
Yeah.

1491
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:43,740
Just an option.

1492
01:17:45,340 --> 01:17:48,720
Thank you, Jason. And you know it's me with landscaping as well.

1493
01:17:48,780 --> 01:17:52,740
The nice thing with something like this, I've never saw this where we were adding

1494
01:17:52,780 --> 01:17:56,020
more parking spots either as well. I don't think it's ever come up.

1495
01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:01,120
But the fact that in lieu of that, that we do have a plan in

1496
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:04,460
place, because I already mentioned, I already put it down, an increased

1497
01:18:04,480 --> 01:18:06,500
plantings somewhere else in the city.

1498
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:09,640
If you can't put them here to upgrade to somewhere to

1499
01:18:09,660 --> 01:18:13,100
beautification. You've mentioned beautification and

1500
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:15,840
safety. What is that about?

1501
01:18:17,180 --> 01:18:20,000
So there isn't a specific project that that would be applied to right now.

1502
01:18:20,060 --> 01:18:22,140
That's just the standard in the ordinance is that

1503
01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:24,680
it would be required to...

1504
01:18:27,340 --> 01:18:27,960
Because a certain fund.

1505
01:18:27,980 --> 01:18:29,880
Safety and appearance improvements

1506
01:18:30,700 --> 01:18:34,100
is the general terminology for the use of the funds.

1507
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:35,340
Okay. I would

1508
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:38,020
suggest on something like this,

1509
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:43,020
because of the plantings, to use it in a planting of somewhere

1510
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:43,819
else in the...

1511
01:18:44,940 --> 01:18:45,740
The flower fund.

1512
01:18:46,980 --> 01:18:49,560
Yeah, call it the flower fund, or a tree fund-

1513
01:18:49,570 --> 01:18:49,570
Tree fund

1514
01:18:49,660 --> 01:18:49,660
...

1515
01:18:50,740 --> 01:18:54,700
or something to that where we can add, like when we have trees that do

1516
01:18:54,780 --> 01:18:58,490
die in the city, that I know we do a lot of plantings along the roads, along

1517
01:18:58,540 --> 01:19:02,160
wayside, and they're looking good. Obviously, sometimes they do die.

1518
01:19:02,480 --> 01:19:06,300
We have to replace them at a cost. So, some type of fund where

1519
01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:10,220
we can use that money to replace the trees or

1520
01:19:10,280 --> 01:19:13,340
do some extra landscaping. I know that Row 4 does it.

1521
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:17,340
I know in the middle, where they are, at the McDonald's

1522
01:19:17,700 --> 01:19:21,640
intersection, they put the landscaping projects right

1523
01:19:21,700 --> 01:19:25,660
in the middle of the roadway. So, I'd be up to seeing something where that money

1524
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:29,600
would go directly into a landscaping project versus

1525
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:31,980
just in a general appearance fund.

1526
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:35,840
Because I know where some monies go, sometimes it gets

1527
01:19:35,860 --> 01:19:39,540
allocated in a different way or a different place, and that's where I was curious.

1528
01:19:40,300 --> 01:19:43,780
I would certainly, if we can't do landscaping here, I would certainly encourage it

1529
01:19:43,820 --> 01:19:45,620
to be somewhere else in the city. So, my

1530
01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:47,920
two cents on that.

1531
01:19:47,960 --> 01:19:48,080
Mm-hmm.

1532
01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:49,640
Anybody else?

1533
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:50,780
Just one last point.

1534
01:19:52,480 --> 01:19:56,340
What I've experienced, I didn't experience the dance

1535
01:19:56,380 --> 01:19:58,740
studio. I experienced Jokers used to be back there, and

1536
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:03,600
people just rocketing straight through from Amato's, and I like how you have

1537
01:20:03,620 --> 01:20:07,540
this turn here where they're kind of required to turn into the lane furthest away

1538
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:10,060
from the building. Will there be signage telling people that that's where they got

1539
01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:10,560
to go?

1540
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:13,760
Yeah. The intent, and I believe it was also mentioned at staff comment,

1541
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:18,140
is at this scale, we didn't include specific locations of signage,

1542
01:20:18,220 --> 01:20:21,940
but the intent would absolutely be signed appropriately and to deter

1543
01:20:22,632 --> 01:20:25,732
... those going two-way. It is two-way

1544
01:20:25,932 --> 01:20:29,442
traffic to some of the comments between

1545
01:20:29,512 --> 01:20:33,032
there, the two buildings until you get to the rear and the property line

1546
01:20:33,092 --> 01:20:34,332
extends upward.

1547
01:20:35,632 --> 01:20:37,572
And that creates that pinch point, right?

1548
01:20:37,612 --> 01:20:41,132
The intent would be really from that point, you get your one-way because you're

1549
01:20:41,272 --> 01:20:42,332
right. There's traffic

1550
01:20:43,552 --> 01:20:46,272
for the adjacent parcel and this parcel.

1551
01:20:46,772 --> 01:20:50,592
One is 90, one is one-way. They both use a wide

1552
01:20:50,672 --> 01:20:53,802
piece of pavement there, and when you actually get towards that rear and you round

1553
01:20:53,832 --> 01:20:57,282
the corner there, that is the intent of you're not supposed to be coming out that

1554
01:20:57,312 --> 01:20:57,492
way.

1555
01:20:57,532 --> 01:20:57,542
Right.

1556
01:20:57,572 --> 01:20:59,692
This is in only this direction. Yep.

1557
01:20:59,772 --> 01:21:00,032
Thank you.

1558
01:21:03,032 --> 01:21:04,452
Thank you, John. Anybody else?

1559
01:21:08,072 --> 01:21:10,732
I see none. With that, can I get a motion, please?

1560
01:21:11,912 --> 01:21:12,752
This is in workshop.

1561
01:21:12,812 --> 01:21:14,512
Oh, it's a workshop. I don't need a motion.

1562
01:21:15,362 --> 01:21:17,132
Well, thank you for that.

1563
01:21:18,492 --> 01:21:21,842
So with that, this is also for a public comment.

1564
01:21:22,272 --> 01:21:26,122
I didn't give the public an opportunity to speak on this, but if there's

1565
01:21:26,172 --> 01:21:29,952
anybody through the public that's in the audience would like to speak on the

1566
01:21:30,012 --> 01:21:31,672
addition of parking spaces,

1567
01:21:32,512 --> 01:21:35,072
please come up. I see none. Anybody through Zoom?

1568
01:21:36,152 --> 01:21:39,712
If there's anyone participating via Zoom and would like to speak, please raise your

1569
01:21:39,722 --> 01:21:40,052
hand.

1570
01:21:42,472 --> 01:21:42,952
Seeing none.

1571
01:21:43,192 --> 01:21:43,972
Okay. Thank you.

1572
01:21:45,592 --> 01:21:46,752
All right. Well, thank you very much.

1573
01:21:47,012 --> 01:21:48,992
Thank you for your time and consideration of the project.

1574
01:21:49,312 --> 01:21:50,092
Thanks. Have a good night.

1575
01:21:50,232 --> 01:21:50,532
You, too.

1576
01:21:51,562 --> 01:21:54,412
Okay, Orlando, can you read the next item into the record, please?

1577
01:21:57,012 --> 01:22:00,972
Item number 26-000630,

1578
01:22:00,992 --> 01:22:04,742
site plan subdivision 267 Conant Street, MGM Builders,

1579
01:22:04,832 --> 01:22:08,712
Inc. The applicant is requesting to construct three multifamily residential

1580
01:22:08,792 --> 01:22:12,652
buildings totaling in 36 dwelling units, and to establish a pad

1581
01:22:12,712 --> 01:22:16,272
site for a future development of a 4,000 square foot commercial building.

1582
01:22:16,932 --> 01:22:20,592
Tax Map 031, Lot 033, Zoned City

1583
01:22:20,672 --> 01:22:22,772
Center, Use Dwelling, Multiple Family.

1584
01:22:24,372 --> 01:22:24,712
Thank you.

1585
01:22:26,552 --> 01:22:28,992
And I see Dustin's up at the microphone again. Hi, Dustin.

1586
01:22:29,432 --> 01:22:30,432
Here again. So

1587
01:22:32,272 --> 01:22:32,932
, all right.

1588
01:22:36,132 --> 01:22:39,232
So Dustin Roma again with DM Roma Consulting Engineers,

1589
01:22:39,852 --> 01:22:42,272
representing MGM Builders with this application.

1590
01:22:43,752 --> 01:22:47,222
So for those of you that were on the board five or six years

1591
01:22:47,272 --> 01:22:51,132
ago, this project was presented at

1592
01:22:51,192 --> 01:22:54,862
length to the planning board or a project on this

1593
01:22:54,872 --> 01:22:58,812
property that is somewhat similar to what we're proposing here.

1594
01:22:59,412 --> 01:23:03,292
At the time, we had worked through the development of plans for

1595
01:23:03,532 --> 01:23:06,352
a exclusively commercial development.

1596
01:23:06,412 --> 01:23:09,792
It had multiple individual smaller buildings.

1597
01:23:11,352 --> 01:23:13,932
And it never went all the way through to final approval.

1598
01:23:14,072 --> 01:23:14,832
We basically

1599
01:23:16,652 --> 01:23:20,212
had run into a scheduling conflict with a upcoming

1600
01:23:20,332 --> 01:23:23,952
paving moratorium, and we really weren't able to proceed into a

1601
01:23:24,012 --> 01:23:27,962
final plan approval. So this applicant has still

1602
01:23:27,992 --> 01:23:31,892
retained ownership of the property, and it's basically just kind of sat for

1603
01:23:32,192 --> 01:23:35,652
four or five years now. In that time, they've kind of

1604
01:23:35,692 --> 01:23:39,502
reconsidered the use of the property and worked

1605
01:23:39,512 --> 01:23:40,972
through some development options.

1606
01:23:41,122 --> 01:23:44,222
And what we have in front of you here as a proposal is a

1607
01:23:44,232 --> 01:23:48,152
predominantly residential-use development with

1608
01:23:48,572 --> 01:23:52,292
a mixed-use component for a 4,000 square foot

1609
01:23:53,192 --> 01:23:56,792
commercial building that we're showing along the front of the site.

1610
01:23:57,372 --> 01:24:01,352
At this time, we have no intended tenant for that 4,000-foot

1611
01:24:01,432 --> 01:24:03,512
building. It's really being designed as a pad site.

1612
01:24:04,392 --> 01:24:04,912
Certainly,

1613
01:24:06,112 --> 01:24:09,992
we will need to make some accommodations for it so that we can discuss things like

1614
01:24:10,052 --> 01:24:12,352
parking and traffic and wastewater disposal.

1615
01:24:12,392 --> 01:24:15,912
All of those things, we're going to have to make some guidelines and

1616
01:24:15,952 --> 01:24:18,372
assumptions as to maybe what might go into that building.

1617
01:24:19,192 --> 01:24:21,452
But right now, we're just basically showing it as a pad site.

1618
01:24:24,692 --> 01:24:28,612
One of the nice things about that building being there as well, we've got

1619
01:24:28,692 --> 01:24:32,272
basically two kind of prominent buildings that will be up

1620
01:24:32,812 --> 01:24:36,712
near Conant Street. So we'll have this commercial building as well

1621
01:24:36,792 --> 01:24:40,742
as one of the multifamily buildings that'll really be what

1622
01:24:40,792 --> 01:24:43,482
you see as you drive by the site or as you pull in.

1623
01:24:44,092 --> 01:24:46,312
And really, all the parking is going to be in the back.

1624
01:24:46,732 --> 01:24:50,012
So you'll just have this driveway entrance coming in,

1625
01:24:50,892 --> 01:24:54,852
and the primary visibility of what you'll see are the buildings.

1626
01:24:56,312 --> 01:24:59,392
We will be extending the sidewalk along Conant Street,

1627
01:25:00,552 --> 01:25:01,692
heading to the east,

1628
01:25:02,732 --> 01:25:04,012
and ending at the

1629
01:25:04,912 --> 01:25:06,632
condo project that's adjacent to us.

1630
01:25:07,532 --> 01:25:10,592
What's not shown on this plan is that the sidewalk that

1631
01:25:12,112 --> 01:25:15,432
from the west has been extended up to that

1632
01:25:15,572 --> 01:25:19,112
driveway that is basically adjacent to our

1633
01:25:19,132 --> 01:25:19,572
property.

1634
01:25:20,792 --> 01:25:24,492
That development that occurred, the 17-unit development there that was

1635
01:25:24,532 --> 01:25:26,952
built within the last two years,

1636
01:25:27,792 --> 01:25:30,272
that project, it did extend the sidewalk up the road.

1637
01:25:30,332 --> 01:25:33,692
So now we're going to continue to kind of integrate this

1638
01:25:33,732 --> 01:25:37,532
connectivity of sidewalks as we go up through Conant Street.

1639
01:25:41,212 --> 01:25:45,152
We've got the building designs are still being worked on.

1640
01:25:45,652 --> 01:25:49,512
As you can see from this layout, they're more of a rectangular shape building

1641
01:25:49,552 --> 01:25:53,492
as opposed to a square. So it'll be potentially something that's

1642
01:25:53,552 --> 01:25:55,732
a little different than what you've seen a lot of.

1643
01:25:56,952 --> 01:25:59,372
We've got integrated sidewalks throughout the development.

1644
01:26:00,412 --> 01:26:03,892
And then certainly the number of parking spaces will take into

1645
01:26:03,932 --> 01:26:07,852
account that mixed-use component with the commercial piece as

1646
01:26:07,912 --> 01:26:08,652
well.

1647
01:26:09,532 --> 01:26:13,452
This development has a single dumpster location all

1648
01:26:13,492 --> 01:26:14,692
the way in the back of the site.

1649
01:26:15,832 --> 01:26:19,692
We've identified certainly a desire to have a second dumpster

1650
01:26:19,732 --> 01:26:23,542
location. That certainly is kind of far away from some of the units, and with the

1651
01:26:23,612 --> 01:26:26,732
number of units being proposed here, we think maybe a second location would

1652
01:26:26,772 --> 01:26:30,422
also function pretty well here. So we will

1653
01:26:30,472 --> 01:26:34,252
be perhaps rearranging some of the site a little bit to

1654
01:26:34,292 --> 01:26:37,531
accommodate a second, more central dumpster pad area.

1655
01:26:46,896 --> 01:26:49,396
Yeah, we'll be bringing sewer into the site from Conant Street.

1656
01:26:49,536 --> 01:26:53,456
There we do have an existing gravity main that's there across

1657
01:26:53,496 --> 01:26:54,016
the street.

1658
01:26:56,176 --> 01:26:56,876
And then

1659
01:26:58,496 --> 01:27:02,336
with the number of units here, we will take a look at

1660
01:27:02,966 --> 01:27:06,076
traffic and just the traffic that's being generated from the project.

1661
01:27:06,136 --> 01:27:09,856
Just again, make sure we're not triggering any warrants for things like left

1662
01:27:09,876 --> 01:27:13,616
turns and those sort of things. So we'll take a look at that in detail,

1663
01:27:14,276 --> 01:27:17,316
just to make sure that the traffic functions will adequate or will function

1664
01:27:17,376 --> 01:27:17,876
adequately.

1665
01:27:19,796 --> 01:27:23,766
For lighting, we will likely have some pole-mounted lighting on this

1666
01:27:23,796 --> 01:27:27,026
project. It's not shown on this plan, but we anticipate some of

1667
01:27:27,076 --> 01:27:31,036
these landscape islands that we have around the site, as well as around the

1668
01:27:31,076 --> 01:27:34,916
perimeter. We do have some parking areas that are located not immediately adjacent

1669
01:27:34,956 --> 01:27:38,436
to the building, so we do anticipate some pole-mounted lighting.

1670
01:27:39,356 --> 01:27:39,876
We'll have

1671
01:27:40,896 --> 01:27:43,736
landscaping put together from a landscape architect.

1672
01:27:44,576 --> 01:27:48,176
And we'll have some nice building elevations for you to look at as well and

1673
01:27:48,236 --> 01:27:51,576
comment on when we come back in with our full plan.

1674
01:27:55,856 --> 01:27:59,036
So this is more of an introduction again, to kind of just get

1675
01:27:59,056 --> 01:28:01,776
everybody back familiar with this project again.

1676
01:28:03,096 --> 01:28:06,566
We're going to use a lot of the stormwater and

1677
01:28:06,636 --> 01:28:10,136
utility kind of design components that we had previously.

1678
01:28:10,216 --> 01:28:14,186
But the site layout has changed a fair amount, so some of

1679
01:28:14,216 --> 01:28:15,996
that'll be reworked.

1680
01:28:17,556 --> 01:28:21,446
And we'll also run some multiple turning templates through the

1681
01:28:21,476 --> 01:28:23,216
site just to kind of demonstrate how...

1682
01:28:23,296 --> 01:28:27,206
Because we have a bunch of little dead-end areas on

1683
01:28:27,256 --> 01:28:30,976
this site, which a big looped configuration I think would be

1684
01:28:31,036 --> 01:28:34,776
better, but we're also, again, trying to leave some green space on this

1685
01:28:34,816 --> 01:28:37,076
property and not just continue on with

1686
01:28:38,056 --> 01:28:38,676
further

1687
01:28:40,156 --> 01:28:43,736
parking areas in the back. And trying to leave some of these landscaped

1688
01:28:43,876 --> 01:28:47,436
islands in between all the parking areas to try to introduce some green space.

1689
01:28:47,516 --> 01:28:47,696
So,

1690
01:28:48,556 --> 01:28:52,476
it is kind of a balance to just have continuous loops

1691
01:28:52,496 --> 01:28:56,196
all through the site as opposed to these kind of dead-end

1692
01:28:56,256 --> 01:28:58,916
parking areas that

1693
01:28:59,016 --> 01:29:01,675
end up resulting in

1694
01:29:02,776 --> 01:29:06,656
having the right number of parking spaces, but maybe not having as much drive

1695
01:29:06,716 --> 01:29:07,056
aisles.

1696
01:29:08,876 --> 01:29:12,816
Looking at that kind of double-stacked parking lot that's there as well, could be

1697
01:29:12,836 --> 01:29:16,196
an opportunity maybe to kind of push those buildings back a little bit on the rear,

1698
01:29:16,296 --> 01:29:20,156
maybe create some landscape in between that parking area so it's not just one

1699
01:29:20,216 --> 01:29:23,776
big massive parking in between the commercial

1700
01:29:23,876 --> 01:29:27,296
building and to the rear of that. So again, there's some

1701
01:29:27,356 --> 01:29:31,196
opportunities there that we'll continue to tweak this plan before we come back and

1702
01:29:31,256 --> 01:29:33,976
have it in front of you again for review.

1703
01:29:34,396 --> 01:29:37,236
But again, we thought this was a good opportunity to bring it back up.

1704
01:29:37,936 --> 01:29:41,876
If you have any comments or suggestions, we'd love to hear them tonight.

1705
01:29:41,906 --> 01:29:45,395
And we'll certainly take those into account as we further develop these plans.

1706
01:29:45,616 --> 01:29:47,096
So, thank you.

1707
01:29:47,156 --> 01:29:47,396
Thank you.

1708
01:29:48,456 --> 01:29:48,756
Becca?

1709
01:29:50,036 --> 01:29:53,236
Nothing further to add specific to the development.

1710
01:29:53,316 --> 01:29:56,096
I'm looking forward to see this return.

1711
01:29:56,596 --> 01:29:59,216
But I did just want to point out to the board, the plans that you received in your

1712
01:29:59,286 --> 01:30:02,316
packet and was showing tonight, it does show that this is a split-zone parcel.

1713
01:30:02,656 --> 01:30:06,396
This is not a split-zone parcel. There was an exercise that this board went through

1714
01:30:06,436 --> 01:30:09,656
a couple of years ago where we looked at some of the split-zone parcels,

1715
01:30:09,736 --> 01:30:12,716
specifically within the city center district, to try to have the

1716
01:30:14,536 --> 01:30:18,456
zone district align with the parcel lines, and this was one of the ones that was

1717
01:30:18,476 --> 01:30:22,216
addressed. So, this is actually entirely within the city center district.

1718
01:30:22,256 --> 01:30:23,476
It's no longer split-zoned.

1719
01:30:24,156 --> 01:30:25,196
Thanks for that comment.

1720
01:30:27,076 --> 01:30:30,916
I was going to bring that up, but I remember doing that on this one

1721
01:30:30,976 --> 01:30:31,636
as well. So,

1722
01:30:34,956 --> 01:30:37,736
with that, this is a public hearing or a public comment section.

1723
01:30:37,865 --> 01:30:40,836
Does anybody from the public wish to speak on this project?

1724
01:30:42,936 --> 01:30:45,176
I'm seeing none. Anybody through Zoom?

1725
01:30:46,596 --> 01:30:49,936
If there's anyone participating via Zoom and would like to speak, please raise your

1726
01:30:49,946 --> 01:30:50,236
hand.

1727
01:30:52,376 --> 01:30:52,996
I'm seeing none.

1728
01:30:53,476 --> 01:30:54,036
Okay. Thank you.

1729
01:30:54,876 --> 01:30:57,675
With that, can we have any board comments on this project?

1730
01:31:00,876 --> 01:31:01,636
Robin. Hi.

1731
01:31:01,876 --> 01:31:05,356
Hi. Thanks. I think this is a really good use of this parcel.

1732
01:31:07,416 --> 01:31:10,556
It's a tough one, let me zoom out, to lay out.

1733
01:31:10,696 --> 01:31:14,596
But I find you talked about that heavy parking area to the

1734
01:31:14,636 --> 01:31:18,376
right. It's very not residential.

1735
01:31:18,396 --> 01:31:20,336
And I just wonder what other options they can...

1736
01:31:20,396 --> 01:31:21,026
The buildings,

1737
01:31:22,116 --> 01:31:25,246
even in the previous project that we were talking about with the two buildings

1738
01:31:25,296 --> 01:31:28,116
together, they had relationship to each other, and these don't.

1739
01:31:28,136 --> 01:31:31,796
And I see some of the challenges, but I wonder, the two

1740
01:31:31,916 --> 01:31:34,296
opposite each other, if the one at the bottom could be

1741
01:31:35,476 --> 01:31:39,336
paired, essentially, with the top right one and the parking moved aside.

1742
01:31:39,376 --> 01:31:39,476
They're

1743
01:31:40,276 --> 01:31:41,296
so disparate.

1744
01:31:43,236 --> 01:31:47,116
And I would think that for the lower building, half of it looks out at

1745
01:31:47,156 --> 01:31:51,096
a potential commercial site. I just wonder if there's more work that can be done to

1746
01:31:51,156 --> 01:31:55,056
separate the residential component from the commercial component.

1747
01:31:57,216 --> 01:31:58,036
I don't know how

1748
01:31:58,936 --> 01:32:00,116
you get to do that with trace paper.

1749
01:32:02,676 --> 01:32:04,516
Just to make it feel residential.

1750
01:32:05,316 --> 01:32:08,476
I like what you said about possibly moving the buildings back, more landscaping.

1751
01:32:08,506 --> 01:32:11,796
It looks like whatever concept there is, it will also be this.

1752
01:32:11,836 --> 01:32:13,486
And I get it. You actually go around,

1753
01:32:14,436 --> 01:32:18,396
the part that faces the parking spots is not the front, it's sort of

1754
01:32:18,436 --> 01:32:22,426
the side. And that has to do with building design and how many entries there

1755
01:32:22,476 --> 01:32:24,896
are, instead of one big central entry. That's fine.

1756
01:32:24,916 --> 01:32:26,556
But I think there's opportunities there.

1757
01:32:26,576 --> 01:32:27,936
And I also would just think

1758
01:32:29,396 --> 01:32:30,476
for that lower building,

1759
01:32:31,396 --> 01:32:33,596
most of the parking is over to the side.

1760
01:32:33,656 --> 01:32:33,776
So,

1761
01:32:34,636 --> 01:32:35,446
I think there's

1762
01:32:36,356 --> 01:32:39,636
more design work to do there to really

1763
01:32:39,696 --> 01:32:43,336
differentiate those two areas. I also noticed, but then I saw it in the

1764
01:32:43,376 --> 01:32:46,056
comments that the handicap spots aren't equally distributed.

1765
01:32:46,076 --> 01:32:46,636
But I know you're

1766
01:32:47,184 --> 01:32:48,504
You haven't gotten to that level of detail.

1767
01:32:48,624 --> 01:32:52,564
So, I think it's a nice use of it, and I'd like to

1768
01:32:52,604 --> 01:32:55,784
see it have a stronger delineation of uses.

1769
01:32:56,844 --> 01:32:57,124
Thanks.

1770
01:33:00,484 --> 01:33:00,984
Anybody else?

1771
01:33:02,264 --> 01:33:02,544
Nancy?

1772
01:33:02,684 --> 01:33:02,864
Yeah.

1773
01:33:03,724 --> 01:33:07,304
I have a question in terms of the commercial building.

1774
01:33:07,364 --> 01:33:07,684
What

1775
01:33:08,944 --> 01:33:12,844
would be the front of that? Is it the parking lot side

1776
01:33:12,884 --> 01:33:14,734
or is it Conan Street?

1777
01:33:15,624 --> 01:33:15,824
Yeah.

1778
01:33:16,764 --> 01:33:18,344
So we haven't really laid that out yet.

1779
01:33:18,684 --> 01:33:21,414
I would anticipate that we could have

1780
01:33:23,204 --> 01:33:25,544
an entrance on there where we have the sidewalk out there.

1781
01:33:25,784 --> 01:33:28,924
We could potentially have an entrance that comes in the front of that building.

1782
01:33:30,304 --> 01:33:30,844
But the

1783
01:33:31,704 --> 01:33:35,533
idea was that the entry point for customers, employees, things

1784
01:33:35,584 --> 01:33:37,084
like that, would be from the back,

1785
01:33:38,444 --> 01:33:40,314
and that we would just create almost a

1786
01:33:41,544 --> 01:33:43,384
Main Street type look on the front.

1787
01:33:43,464 --> 01:33:45,264
So you'd have a street side view,

1788
01:33:46,064 --> 01:33:49,984
almost like a Main Street type look on the roadside, and then leaving

1789
01:33:50,004 --> 01:33:53,764
ample space there between the building and the road for landscaping.

1790
01:33:53,864 --> 01:33:54,324
So we've got that

1791
01:33:55,244 --> 01:33:58,944
wide green space in there that, in this plan, it looks like it's all

1792
01:33:59,004 --> 01:34:01,844
lawn, but it would all be nicely landscaped in front of the building.

1793
01:34:03,444 --> 01:34:05,864
It might be a good idea to consider a bike rack

1794
01:34:06,724 --> 01:34:10,544
out front of that too, because it's city center and

1795
01:34:10,924 --> 01:34:12,144
it would be bikeable.

1796
01:34:13,104 --> 01:34:13,564
Agreed.

1797
01:34:17,284 --> 01:34:17,704
Mr. Chair?

1798
01:34:18,024 --> 01:34:18,563
John.

1799
01:34:18,864 --> 01:34:21,004
Just echoing what Robin and Nancy said, that

1800
01:34:22,624 --> 01:34:26,584
I believe we have to have businesses who face the road that at least look

1801
01:34:26,644 --> 01:34:29,114
like the front of the building. Is there something-

1802
01:34:29,164 --> 01:34:30,064
Not at this location.

1803
01:34:30,104 --> 01:34:30,754
Not at this location.

1804
01:34:30,774 --> 01:34:30,774
No.

1805
01:34:30,784 --> 01:34:33,204
Okay. Because it never really works.

1806
01:34:33,644 --> 01:34:35,483
Everyone tries to make it work, and it never quite works.

1807
01:34:35,544 --> 01:34:36,824
But as long as it, like you said,

1808
01:34:38,184 --> 01:34:41,474
you make an effort at that look, and there will be some landscaping between.

1809
01:34:42,184 --> 01:34:45,144
Because the alternative, of course, is to have the parking facing the street, which

1810
01:34:45,504 --> 01:34:47,294
this is going to be much better as you drive by.

1811
01:34:47,314 --> 01:34:49,984
You're going to see the buildings, and the parking's behind it.

1812
01:34:51,424 --> 01:34:54,384
I feel you're going to run yourself in circles with the tracing paper trying to

1813
01:34:54,504 --> 01:34:57,124
rotate these buildings and move them back, but see what you can do.

1814
01:34:58,264 --> 01:35:00,004
I don't have a problem with the

1815
01:35:02,484 --> 01:35:06,284
placement of the buildings, and I can see that you're limited on

1816
01:35:06,404 --> 01:35:10,024
where you can put them. So I'll be just interested to see how you're able to play

1817
01:35:10,064 --> 01:35:13,984
with that. But other than that, I do like, as I said before, how as

1818
01:35:14,004 --> 01:35:16,264
you drive by, you're going to see the buildings and the parking's going to be

1819
01:35:16,304 --> 01:35:20,303
behind that. I think that's going to be a good look from Conan Street. Thank you.

1820
01:35:21,984 --> 01:35:24,464
Thank you, John. Anybody else? Yes, Jason.

1821
01:35:25,004 --> 01:35:25,504
Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1822
01:35:26,504 --> 01:35:30,344
So I do remember this site. It's where that huge red

1823
01:35:30,384 --> 01:35:31,784
house used to be that was torn down.

1824
01:35:32,144 --> 01:35:32,154
Yeah.

1825
01:35:32,164 --> 01:35:33,724
I always wondered what happened to that project.

1826
01:35:33,844 --> 01:35:33,964
So

1827
01:35:35,044 --> 01:35:35,324
here we go.

1828
01:35:36,284 --> 01:35:39,644
I agree with others. Your parking lot definitely needs a little feng shui or

1829
01:35:39,684 --> 01:35:40,124
something.

1830
01:35:40,944 --> 01:35:43,544
It needs some help, but the only thing really

1831
01:35:45,364 --> 01:35:49,234
I think here is the single family over to the end, the home over to the

1832
01:35:49,284 --> 01:35:52,524
left side there. I guess give them just a little breathing room.

1833
01:35:53,084 --> 01:35:53,244
Yep.

1834
01:35:53,504 --> 01:35:56,004
And I'm sure they'd appreciate that, so.

1835
01:35:56,044 --> 01:35:56,184
But

1836
01:35:57,864 --> 01:35:57,993
yeah.

1837
01:36:01,064 --> 01:36:02,904
Looking forward to seeing the next revision.

1838
01:36:03,944 --> 01:36:04,824
Thanks, Jason. Oriana?

1839
01:36:05,784 --> 01:36:09,704
I'm curious who owns the land behind it down to the

1840
01:36:09,744 --> 01:36:13,004
river, if any of that connects to the

1841
01:36:13,104 --> 01:36:16,944
city-owned land along the river that I think is intended to be developed

1842
01:36:17,004 --> 01:36:19,114
as a more formal trail out that way.

1843
01:36:20,004 --> 01:36:22,804
Just, if there's any chance of connecting back there to the trail.

1844
01:36:24,524 --> 01:36:28,504
I know we've got private ownership in between this lot and

1845
01:36:28,564 --> 01:36:30,604
maybe what might be city land further back.

1846
01:36:31,304 --> 01:36:31,314
Okay.

1847
01:36:31,344 --> 01:36:31,974
There's one,

1848
01:36:33,064 --> 01:36:36,564
the landowner that owns the strip of land between this

1849
01:36:36,604 --> 01:36:38,084
project and,

1850
01:36:40,204 --> 01:36:43,544
I forget what the condos are. They're called, is it Gateway or ...

1851
01:36:43,564 --> 01:36:44,854
But yeah, the condo project that's here.

1852
01:36:44,884 --> 01:36:48,724
There's a strip of land that comes up, and then merges in with a larger parcel in

1853
01:36:48,744 --> 01:36:50,984
the back that's really just for a single family home.

1854
01:36:52,124 --> 01:36:54,364
That's primarily in the rural zone.

1855
01:36:56,104 --> 01:36:56,874
And then,

1856
01:36:59,924 --> 01:37:02,804
yeah, it's privately owned around the perimeter, I know.

1857
01:37:02,904 --> 01:37:05,704
So we don't directly abut any of that city-owned land, but...

1858
01:37:05,864 --> 01:37:07,644
It's quite a bit away from where the-

1859
01:37:07,903 --> 01:37:08,104
Yeah

1860
01:37:08,114 --> 01:37:11,684
... city land was. But there are two large parcels in there,

1861
01:37:12,104 --> 01:37:15,864
and kind of looping back to our conversation earlier, I think if a

1862
01:37:15,904 --> 01:37:18,984
project were to happen on either of those, I'm not saying it will, it's private

1863
01:37:19,004 --> 01:37:22,644
property, but if it were, that would be an instance where I think there may be a

1864
01:37:22,704 --> 01:37:26,364
benefit for a public easement on the back for eventual continuation of the trail.

1865
01:37:26,504 --> 01:37:28,304
But we're quite a bit away at the moment.

1866
01:37:28,684 --> 01:37:31,984
Yeah. And is there a sidewalk all the way to Conan Street from there?

1867
01:37:33,044 --> 01:37:33,364
No.

1868
01:37:34,364 --> 01:37:35,604
Basically, this would be

1869
01:37:36,524 --> 01:37:39,184
the end of it, so we're just kind of continuing it on.

1870
01:37:39,884 --> 01:37:43,284
Okay. I was just thinking about what are the open space

1871
01:37:43,404 --> 01:37:46,544
opportunities, because it is close enough that you would want to walk into town,

1872
01:37:46,604 --> 01:37:50,384
but it's not really good walking infrastructure, but not much you can do about

1873
01:37:50,424 --> 01:37:50,603
that.

1874
01:37:51,584 --> 01:37:51,864
Just...

1875
01:37:59,524 --> 01:38:00,144
Anybody else?

1876
01:38:05,424 --> 01:38:08,864
I see none. I'll just say that it is a good

1877
01:38:08,904 --> 01:38:10,944
location to have a mixed use

1878
01:38:11,784 --> 01:38:15,704
coming in. I like the buildings in the back, that you're not going to see

1879
01:38:15,764 --> 01:38:18,824
the driveways as well once you're in. It's going to be a roadway.

1880
01:38:19,464 --> 01:38:22,544
I'm assuming with all the landscape architect, you're not going to see much of

1881
01:38:22,564 --> 01:38:23,004
anything

1882
01:38:23,864 --> 01:38:27,144
through those back buildings with the front scape.

1883
01:38:28,384 --> 01:38:30,344
The islands, are they going to be landscaped as well?

1884
01:38:30,364 --> 01:38:31,144
Or is that going to be-

1885
01:38:31,464 --> 01:38:31,824
Definitely.

1886
01:38:31,904 --> 01:38:32,124
Is that going to be okay?

1887
01:38:33,324 --> 01:38:36,344
Yeah, I'm looking forward to see you moving on with this project for sure.

1888
01:38:37,384 --> 01:38:41,074
The only thing I can say is, with that other building that is on the left, with

1889
01:38:41,084 --> 01:38:43,324
the parking, I don't know if that can be,

1890
01:38:45,244 --> 01:38:49,224
even if it's beneficial to put that residential building back to the

1891
01:38:49,324 --> 01:38:52,984
right and move the commercial pad To the other side

1892
01:38:53,524 --> 01:38:56,664
and move the driveway over a little bit more towards where that pad is.

1893
01:38:57,264 --> 01:38:58,744
I don't know if that makes any sense.

1894
01:38:58,784 --> 01:39:02,184
That way it keeps all the residentials in one section of the

1895
01:39:02,424 --> 01:39:02,844
parcel-

1896
01:39:03,244 --> 01:39:03,364
Mm-hmm

1897
01:39:03,424 --> 01:39:05,444
... and then your commercial lot up in the front.

1898
01:39:06,944 --> 01:39:10,364
Yeah, and I think rezoning the property the way the city did

1899
01:39:10,664 --> 01:39:14,184
potentially opens up some doors here, because the way we understood it

1900
01:39:14,244 --> 01:39:17,584
previously, with this being a split zone, and you can see how the zone line was

1901
01:39:17,624 --> 01:39:18,834
running through those multi-buildings.

1902
01:39:18,844 --> 01:39:18,934
Right.

1903
01:39:19,444 --> 01:39:23,414
Our understanding was that the multifamily use was

1904
01:39:23,444 --> 01:39:27,364
not permitted in that rural zoning district, which was behind it, so the

1905
01:39:27,404 --> 01:39:30,424
physical placement of the buildings had to be up in that city center zone.

1906
01:39:30,434 --> 01:39:34,214
So we pushed them as far back as we felt we could while still maintaining

1907
01:39:34,264 --> 01:39:37,854
that zone boundary, because I think we could extend 30 feet into

1908
01:39:37,904 --> 01:39:41,884
the more restrictive zone. So that's kind of how we ended up

1909
01:39:41,904 --> 01:39:45,844
with this building placement. But knowing now that, and Rebecca had mentioned

1910
01:39:45,864 --> 01:39:49,653
that to me previously, that now that we have open city center zoning

1911
01:39:49,704 --> 01:39:50,794
across the whole property,

1912
01:39:52,014 --> 01:39:55,424
there's opportunity now to continue to move these buildings back that wasn't there

1913
01:39:55,444 --> 01:39:56,684
when we were here five years ago.

1914
01:39:56,724 --> 01:39:57,004
Mm-hmm.

1915
01:39:57,044 --> 01:39:57,204
So.

1916
01:40:00,224 --> 01:40:02,824
Well, then I'm looking forward to seeing the new design.

1917
01:40:04,044 --> 01:40:04,444
Yep.

1918
01:40:05,124 --> 01:40:07,334
Because you got your work cut out for that one, too, before your next one.

1919
01:40:07,384 --> 01:40:08,734
Yeah, it'll be a nice project. Yeah.

1920
01:40:08,774 --> 01:40:08,774
Oh, yeah.

1921
01:40:08,784 --> 01:40:09,644
I'm looking forward to it.

1922
01:40:12,704 --> 01:40:13,164
Anybody else?

1923
01:40:13,704 --> 01:40:14,264
No, sir.

1924
01:40:14,404 --> 01:40:16,004
All right. Well, thank you very much, Dustin.

1925
01:40:16,064 --> 01:40:16,424
Thank you.

1926
01:40:19,404 --> 01:40:22,344
Orlando, could you read the next item into record, please?

1927
01:40:24,164 --> 01:40:24,604
Yes.

1928
01:40:26,964 --> 01:40:30,404
Item number 26-000636,

1929
01:40:30,824 --> 01:40:33,224
Subdivision 108 Longfellow Street

1930
01:40:33,564 --> 01:40:36,684
108 LLC.

1931
01:40:37,524 --> 01:40:41,504
The applicant is requesting a three-lot subdivision to create one lot

1932
01:40:41,524 --> 01:40:45,324
for the construction of a single-family dwelling, establish a separate

1933
01:40:45,364 --> 01:40:49,154
lot for the existing three-unit multifamily building, and

1934
01:40:49,184 --> 01:40:53,004
retaining one existing lot with which no development is currently proposed.

1935
01:40:53,904 --> 01:40:57,844
Tax Map 027, Lot 001, Zone Residential Growth

1936
01:40:57,904 --> 01:41:01,143
Area 1, Use Dwelling, Single Family, Multiple Family.

1937
01:41:02,624 --> 01:41:03,944
Thank you. Dustin.

1938
01:41:03,974 --> 01:41:06,504
All right. Good evening. This is my last one for the evenings.

1939
01:41:08,864 --> 01:41:12,764
So Dustin Roma, DM Roma Consulting Engineers, representing the

1940
01:41:12,804 --> 01:41:14,644
applicant here for 108 Longfellow Street.

1941
01:41:14,724 --> 01:41:16,873
Dustin, can you try to speak up a little bit so that the-

1942
01:41:16,964 --> 01:41:16,993
Yes.

1943
01:41:16,993 --> 01:41:17,744
Yep. Thank you.

1944
01:41:17,804 --> 01:41:17,964
Yep.

1945
01:41:20,964 --> 01:41:22,524
Yeah, so this project

1946
01:41:23,504 --> 01:41:26,924
is, at this stage, it's a fairly

1947
01:41:27,004 --> 01:41:29,284
straightforward application where

1948
01:41:30,144 --> 01:41:34,044
we're really not proposing any physical development of this property as

1949
01:41:34,084 --> 01:41:36,004
part of this subdivision request.

1950
01:41:36,924 --> 01:41:40,664
There's an existing driveway with a shared parking area

1951
01:41:40,784 --> 01:41:43,304
for a three-unit building on this property.

1952
01:41:43,344 --> 01:41:45,824
It's 1.7 acres in total.

1953
01:41:46,524 --> 01:41:49,624
This landowner who purchased the

1954
01:41:49,644 --> 01:41:50,664
property

1955
01:41:51,644 --> 01:41:55,373
is looking to essentially just divide it up into three lots,

1956
01:41:56,224 --> 01:41:59,814
and kind of create the canvas for somebody to come in and

1957
01:41:59,824 --> 01:42:02,584
propose some sort of development on this lot.

1958
01:42:02,744 --> 01:42:03,024
So,

1959
01:42:04,444 --> 01:42:05,284
we've got

1960
01:42:06,824 --> 01:42:10,644
a lot created around the three-family with a

1961
01:42:10,684 --> 01:42:11,424
parking area.

1962
01:42:12,544 --> 01:42:15,784
That lot will utilize the existing driveway that's

1963
01:42:15,864 --> 01:42:19,344
there to be shared with lot three, so that

1964
01:42:19,444 --> 01:42:22,804
easement will be retained on that property for access to that

1965
01:42:22,844 --> 01:42:24,104
three-family building.

1966
01:42:24,964 --> 01:42:28,844
We thought it was best to have that easement be owned

1967
01:42:28,884 --> 01:42:32,564
in fee from the future owner of lot three,

1968
01:42:32,724 --> 01:42:36,684
seeing that there will most likely be improvements made to

1969
01:42:36,764 --> 01:42:40,684
that driveway entrance to accommodate whatever development somebody

1970
01:42:40,724 --> 01:42:43,784
may want to do on lot three. Under current zoning,

1971
01:42:45,044 --> 01:42:48,884
we've estimated that nine units could potentially be put on

1972
01:42:48,944 --> 01:42:52,924
lot three. Whether somebody physically wants to do that or whether they want to

1973
01:42:52,944 --> 01:42:54,904
do something else would be up to them.

1974
01:42:56,684 --> 01:42:57,124
And

1975
01:42:58,704 --> 01:43:02,184
so again, we thought it was best to just have the ownership of that

1976
01:43:02,504 --> 01:43:05,824
access way come in, stay with lot three, so that if they're going to be making

1977
01:43:05,844 --> 01:43:09,774
improvements to it, that they would not be working within somebody else's easement,

1978
01:43:09,843 --> 01:43:11,343
but they'd be working on their own land.

1979
01:43:11,843 --> 01:43:15,524
And just making sure that that three-family would

1980
01:43:15,564 --> 01:43:17,084
continue to have access over

1981
01:43:17,904 --> 01:43:21,564
the current road as it exists, as well as an improved road if that was something

1982
01:43:21,584 --> 01:43:22,494
that was done in the future.

1983
01:43:24,444 --> 01:43:27,504
Lot number one has a very tight

1984
01:43:28,544 --> 01:43:30,504
building envelope down in that lower area.

1985
01:43:31,524 --> 01:43:34,784
It's been designed so it has

1986
01:43:35,564 --> 01:43:39,444
enough square footage in there to accommodate a single family home, but nothing

1987
01:43:39,524 --> 01:43:40,144
more than that.

1988
01:43:42,564 --> 01:43:44,884
You can see that it's kind of hatched in on the plan here.

1989
01:43:44,944 --> 01:43:48,684
There's a fairly steep slope that drops down into that

1990
01:43:48,764 --> 01:43:49,124
lot

1991
01:43:50,364 --> 01:43:54,304
from the three-family side. So it's fairly level at the three-family.

1992
01:43:55,034 --> 01:43:58,124
And then where this property line is drawn in is basically right at the top of the

1993
01:43:58,204 --> 01:44:01,744
bank, and then it kind of slopes down, and there's a bunch of trees along that edge

1994
01:44:01,824 --> 01:44:03,034
there. And then

1995
01:44:04,644 --> 01:44:06,164
so we've identified a

1996
01:44:07,044 --> 01:44:09,884
fairly small building envelope on that lot,

1997
01:44:10,804 --> 01:44:12,964
but something that could be accommodated.

1998
01:44:13,704 --> 01:44:17,504
We are in the process right now of just putting together a basic grading

1999
01:44:17,604 --> 01:44:21,483
plan that we're really just using, that the owner will be able to use for

2000
01:44:21,524 --> 01:44:25,304
marketing purposes and stuff, just to kind of show what could potentially go on

2001
01:44:25,364 --> 01:44:25,824
that lot.

2002
01:44:26,784 --> 01:44:30,544
Certainly, any development of really any of these lots,

2003
01:44:30,824 --> 01:44:34,804
other than the three-family home lot, so lots one or three,

2004
01:44:35,564 --> 01:44:39,014
if anything were proposed to be built on there, it would require going

2005
01:44:39,044 --> 01:44:42,184
through preparing a drainage and grading

2006
01:44:42,224 --> 01:44:45,984
plan that would get reviewed by engineering here at the

2007
01:44:46,044 --> 01:44:49,324
city as part of a building permit review process.

2008
01:44:49,364 --> 01:44:53,064
So there is that level of review that will occur.

2009
01:44:53,996 --> 01:44:56,976
But we do kind of want to just get out ahead of it a little bit and make sure we

2010
01:44:57,596 --> 01:45:01,296
show any prospective buyers what our ideas are for

2011
01:45:01,356 --> 01:45:04,106
how that lot number one would be developed,

2012
01:45:05,676 --> 01:45:08,236
to kind of create a building envelope there.

2013
01:45:08,956 --> 01:45:10,956
Lot number three is kind of wide open.

2014
01:45:11,016 --> 01:45:14,816
If somebody wanted to do a few units or single-family

2015
01:45:14,856 --> 01:45:17,276
house or whatever they wanted to do, that would be up to them.

2016
01:45:17,316 --> 01:45:20,976
And you would see that plan back in front of you if somebody were to

2017
01:45:21,016 --> 01:45:24,996
develop lot three in any manner other than a single-family home, I think that you

2018
01:45:25,036 --> 01:45:26,276
guys would see that again.

2019
01:45:26,536 --> 01:45:27,576
Yeah, anything to a three.

2020
01:45:27,956 --> 01:45:28,056
Yeah.

2021
01:45:28,096 --> 01:45:28,476
Three or more.

2022
01:45:28,876 --> 01:45:32,256
Yeah. So you guys would see that as an amendment or as a site plan review.

2023
01:45:37,156 --> 01:45:41,096
So yeah. So other than that's really all we're proposing

2024
01:45:41,136 --> 01:45:43,556
at this time. So, we had a neighborhood meeting.

2025
01:45:45,016 --> 01:45:48,196
They had some questions and unfortunately it was a similar situation to this where

2026
01:45:48,356 --> 01:45:51,905
it's normally we're proposing to build something and they're asking,

2027
01:45:51,976 --> 01:45:55,956
how much of this is gonna get cut back and how much vegetation is being

2028
01:45:55,976 --> 01:45:56,596
removed, and

2029
01:45:57,536 --> 01:46:01,156
the answers that we've been giving people is essentially, if this is approved to

2030
01:46:01,476 --> 01:46:04,116
split this up into three lots, all we're gonna do is basically put

2031
01:46:05,076 --> 01:46:08,736
for sale signs out front and that's the limit of what we're gonna do with this

2032
01:46:08,776 --> 01:46:09,556
project for now.

2033
01:46:11,836 --> 01:46:15,276
So certainly if there's anything that you see here that you'd like us to

2034
01:46:15,296 --> 01:46:18,716
incorporate, we are gonna try and get this turned back around for a full

2035
01:46:18,736 --> 01:46:22,116
application here, hopefully for the meeting coming up

2036
01:46:22,196 --> 01:46:25,976
in September. So I think we'd have to get stuff submitted for

2037
01:46:26,016 --> 01:46:29,976
Thursday, so any feedback you can provide would be greatly appreciated

2038
01:46:30,036 --> 01:46:32,876
so we're prepared for this next submission. So thank you.

2039
01:46:33,456 --> 01:46:33,816
Thank you.

2040
01:46:35,336 --> 01:46:35,716
Rebecca?

2041
01:46:36,736 --> 01:46:37,256
Nothing further.

2042
01:46:37,596 --> 01:46:41,396
Okay. Thank you. With that this is also a public

2043
01:46:41,406 --> 01:46:45,266
comment section. Anybody who wishes to speak on this project, please

2044
01:46:45,336 --> 01:46:47,956
step up to the microphone. You do have three minutes.

2045
01:46:48,196 --> 01:46:50,516
I'm sorry Larry, one thing. I did just wanted to let...

2046
01:46:50,916 --> 01:46:54,896
We did receive too about our notice that our, but our emails today, those

2047
01:46:54,936 --> 01:46:56,196
were provided to the board.

2048
01:46:57,316 --> 01:47:00,896
I just wanted to state for the record that they are a part of the overall record.

2049
01:47:01,656 --> 01:47:02,096
Thank you.

2050
01:47:02,126 --> 01:47:02,776
Sorry about that.

2051
01:47:02,916 --> 01:47:06,816
And I did get an opportunity to read those as well, and we

2052
01:47:06,856 --> 01:47:10,495
will bring those up into comments with the questions after

2053
01:47:11,616 --> 01:47:13,636
people in-house and through Zoom speak.

2054
01:47:13,936 --> 01:47:15,836
So with that, come on up sir.

2055
01:47:18,496 --> 01:47:19,516
Hi, my name is Larry.

2056
01:47:20,336 --> 01:47:24,076
My father owns the building at 80 Longfellow Street,

2057
01:47:24,676 --> 01:47:27,836
and we just wanted to draw to your guys' attention, in case,

2058
01:47:28,876 --> 01:47:32,376
there's been a lot of history as far as that back

2059
01:47:32,496 --> 01:47:36,016
road, kind of right to the side of that huge slope.

2060
01:47:36,396 --> 01:47:40,206
We've had to spend a lot of money over the years on

2061
01:47:40,336 --> 01:47:44,056
drainage. Last year we had to spend a ton of money on drainage

2062
01:47:44,116 --> 01:47:48,076
because that whole back road really started

2063
01:47:48,085 --> 01:47:51,686
to deteriorate over the years, mainly because of the water that would come down

2064
01:47:51,756 --> 01:47:55,506
that slope. So his main concern and ours

2065
01:47:55,816 --> 01:47:58,916
was just that maybe some sort of drainage

2066
01:47:59,696 --> 01:48:02,796
solution there would be one, maybe that doesn't put so much

2067
01:48:02,896 --> 01:48:05,096
strain on our system.

2068
01:48:06,496 --> 01:48:09,736
Also how close it is is a concern,

2069
01:48:10,536 --> 01:48:11,956
because of the drainage also.

2070
01:48:13,896 --> 01:48:17,476
Like you said, it does seem to be like a small little

2071
01:48:17,486 --> 01:48:18,776
area there.

2072
01:48:19,716 --> 01:48:23,496
Not only is he concerned about it being

2073
01:48:23,536 --> 01:48:24,876
so small

2074
01:48:26,476 --> 01:48:30,016
next to the slope, but he's also concerned it's an historical building.

2075
01:48:30,696 --> 01:48:32,616
He just wanted to make sure preserve.

2076
01:48:34,696 --> 01:48:38,556
If you're just gonna squeeze a single building in there, just

2077
01:48:38,596 --> 01:48:42,436
because you can, it seems unfortunate to ruin such a

2078
01:48:42,476 --> 01:48:45,436
nice looking building right next to it, potentially.

2079
01:48:45,476 --> 01:48:49,136
But mainly, it sounds like

2080
01:48:49,596 --> 01:48:52,936
the location of these buildings is his concern,

2081
01:48:53,196 --> 01:48:56,486
specifically where they might be and how the drainage would work

2082
01:48:57,016 --> 01:48:57,396
getting

2083
01:48:59,136 --> 01:49:00,116
down that slope,

2084
01:49:00,936 --> 01:49:04,876
because we're basically downhill from everything up

2085
01:49:04,936 --> 01:49:05,216
there.

2086
01:49:06,876 --> 01:49:07,436
They've

2087
01:49:08,956 --> 01:49:12,676
developed kind of offsite in other places

2088
01:49:12,736 --> 01:49:16,306
where the water sometimes... The area is really,

2089
01:49:16,436 --> 01:49:20,316
there's a lot of water in that area.

2090
01:49:20,376 --> 01:49:24,326
So, we have pools of water on other parts of

2091
01:49:24,356 --> 01:49:27,236
our property because developments have kind of

2092
01:49:28,076 --> 01:49:30,516
pushed water down a hill on the other side of the property.

2093
01:49:30,596 --> 01:49:33,796
So I think we're just concerned that that sort of thing might happen

2094
01:49:34,476 --> 01:49:35,996
on the other side. So,

2095
01:49:37,136 --> 01:49:40,196
I don't know if he had anything to add.

2096
01:49:41,056 --> 01:49:41,656
No. Well, actually,

2097
01:49:43,456 --> 01:49:45,956
we have got that property-

2098
01:49:46,016 --> 01:49:46,316
Can you-

2099
01:49:46,366 --> 01:49:46,836
... on all three sides.

2100
01:49:46,846 --> 01:49:48,346
Yeah, come on up. Give us your name and your address.

2101
01:49:48,346 --> 01:49:51,116
I'm Marshall Mack. I'm the owner of Mack Brothers.

2102
01:49:52,256 --> 01:49:56,096
We have a 90-unit early housing project that's on the

2103
01:49:56,116 --> 01:49:57,516
property around

2104
01:49:58,316 --> 01:50:00,836
108 Longfellow Street. And

2105
01:50:02,076 --> 01:50:05,096
that our back road there was actually the canal

2106
01:50:06,896 --> 01:50:10,576
that goes around and it's a high water table, the whole

2107
01:50:10,616 --> 01:50:14,376
area down below. So it's a concern to

2108
01:50:15,856 --> 01:50:19,416
how that's gonna play out if there's construction there.

2109
01:50:19,456 --> 01:50:23,436
And I can visualize in that little area a

2110
01:50:23,476 --> 01:50:24,716
house being there, but

2111
01:50:25,716 --> 01:50:26,276
that's not

2112
01:50:28,996 --> 01:50:32,436
something for me to decide. Also I suppose

2113
01:50:33,156 --> 01:50:34,456
the back part of it too,

2114
01:50:36,696 --> 01:50:39,656
we as a slope, but nothing like that one.

2115
01:50:39,726 --> 01:50:40,856
But we got a

2116
01:50:41,956 --> 01:50:42,376
single

2117
01:50:43,876 --> 01:50:47,316
apartment building on one floor that's on a slab,

2118
01:50:47,896 --> 01:50:51,696
and we have a drainage going around there too and I

2119
01:50:51,736 --> 01:50:52,336
don't know

2120
01:50:53,196 --> 01:50:56,356
how they're going to address more water coming down there

2121
01:50:57,616 --> 01:50:59,696
on that part of it. But as far as

2122
01:51:02,572 --> 01:51:06,272
Area three, I don't have a problem with that.

2123
01:51:07,372 --> 01:51:10,952
It's the back part of maybe area three, but area one

2124
01:51:11,072 --> 01:51:12,992
especially is a problem

2125
01:51:14,172 --> 01:51:14,912
for us. So,

2126
01:51:16,012 --> 01:51:17,192
that needs to be addressed.

2127
01:51:18,492 --> 01:51:18,632
But,

2128
01:51:19,992 --> 01:51:22,632
so that's all I want to say.

2129
01:51:22,762 --> 01:51:23,052
All right.

2130
01:51:23,312 --> 01:51:23,892
Thank you.

2131
01:51:24,032 --> 01:51:24,432
Thank you.

2132
01:51:26,932 --> 01:51:29,752
Could I clarify, Larry, is your last name Mack as well?

2133
01:51:29,832 --> 01:51:30,012
Yes.

2134
01:51:30,052 --> 01:51:30,272
Okay.

2135
01:51:30,452 --> 01:51:30,712
Yes.

2136
01:51:31,592 --> 01:51:35,032
I can hear a little bit better maybe. I think is the main thing.

2137
01:51:35,302 --> 01:51:35,772
Thank you.

2138
01:51:39,372 --> 01:51:41,812
Okay. Does anybody else from the public wish to speak?

2139
01:51:43,852 --> 01:51:46,152
Seeing none, anybody through Zoom, Orlando?

2140
01:51:47,892 --> 01:51:51,412
If there's anyone participating via Zoom and would like to speak, please raise your

2141
01:51:51,452 --> 01:51:51,732
hand.

2142
01:51:53,692 --> 01:51:54,392
I am seeing none.

2143
01:51:54,552 --> 01:51:56,772
Okay. With that, I'll close the public comment.

2144
01:51:59,092 --> 01:52:00,672
With that, do we have staff comment?

2145
01:52:04,032 --> 01:52:04,212
So-

2146
01:52:04,282 --> 01:52:04,752
Ms. Russ, please.

2147
01:52:04,912 --> 01:52:08,792
Yeah, well, it is a challenging thing because as Dustin said, he's

2148
01:52:08,832 --> 01:52:10,812
not proposing any development right now.

2149
01:52:11,192 --> 01:52:14,372
So this at this point really is just the land division.

2150
01:52:14,792 --> 01:52:18,692
Any kind of, the drainage design would be part

2151
01:52:18,792 --> 01:52:22,772
of any kind of development on these, but we don't have those

2152
01:52:22,852 --> 01:52:26,832
items now. The lot one, that would go through the process

2153
01:52:26,882 --> 01:52:30,532
called a surface drainage plan, which is something that's required to be reviewed,

2154
01:52:30,612 --> 01:52:33,712
where they do look at groundwater, and

2155
01:52:34,172 --> 01:52:38,042
where, essentially, whenever a new lot is created, that

2156
01:52:38,072 --> 01:52:41,762
lot legally needs to continue to accept the water.

2157
01:52:41,812 --> 01:52:45,642
It's always accepted, and it can't expel water onto a different property that it

2158
01:52:45,672 --> 01:52:46,512
didn't previously.

2159
01:52:47,402 --> 01:52:50,062
The existing paths of water have to be maintained.

2160
01:52:50,552 --> 01:52:54,462
So that's what the surface drainage plan would be looking at, that grading of that

2161
01:52:54,492 --> 01:52:56,752
lot before they could go forward to a building permit.

2162
01:52:57,532 --> 01:53:01,512
I do not disagree that the lot one that's being shown has a

2163
01:53:01,572 --> 01:53:05,392
very small building envelope between the slopes and then the

2164
01:53:06,332 --> 01:53:09,932
setbacks from the property lines that are being created, but it does

2165
01:53:10,272 --> 01:53:13,032
meet the requirements of the ordinance for a lot.

2166
01:53:13,912 --> 01:53:17,792
And then, as Dustin said, lot three would likely be some kind of a

2167
01:53:17,832 --> 01:53:21,772
site plan that would come back to this board and the grading and drainage would be

2168
01:53:21,792 --> 01:53:22,732
designed at that time.

2169
01:53:24,292 --> 01:53:24,852
Thank you, Becca.

2170
01:53:26,252 --> 01:53:28,892
With that, do we have any other board comments? Oriana?

2171
01:53:29,872 --> 01:53:33,812
Becca, just so I can learn, where nothing is being proposed to

2172
01:53:34,292 --> 01:53:38,152
be built right now, aside from the lots meeting the minimum

2173
01:53:38,212 --> 01:53:41,892
standards for the zoning district that they're in, is there

2174
01:53:41,952 --> 01:53:45,532
anything that the board... Like, there are no discretionary factors for us

2175
01:53:45,612 --> 01:53:48,522
to... Are there any discretionary factors- ...

2176
01:53:48,552 --> 01:53:52,152
that we would evaluate to disapprove this

2177
01:53:52,212 --> 01:53:52,892
subdivision?

2178
01:53:53,952 --> 01:53:57,892
Not typically. The only thing that kind of flagged for me that I do wanna run by

2179
01:53:57,992 --> 01:54:01,372
afterwards is making sure that there's a location for a driveway that would be

2180
01:54:01,392 --> 01:54:02,822
feasible on that lot one.

2181
01:54:03,712 --> 01:54:07,452
Because, there have been instances where people have created lots that were not

2182
01:54:07,472 --> 01:54:10,212
board approved, they just carved off a lot, and then come to find out that lot

2183
01:54:10,252 --> 01:54:12,772
doesn't meet the standards for a driveway. That could be a problem.

2184
01:54:13,212 --> 01:54:16,732
But essentially, it is just a review of the lot dimensions, yes.

2185
01:54:16,792 --> 01:54:19,812
Yeah, okay. I note that it is the minimum

2186
01:54:20,792 --> 01:54:24,092
size, but it can be for fronted 65 feet

2187
01:54:24,452 --> 01:54:24,832
across.

2188
01:54:25,132 --> 01:54:25,402
And depth.

2189
01:54:26,772 --> 01:54:26,892
Yeah.

2190
01:54:27,232 --> 01:54:28,772
So it meets the criteria to the T.

2191
01:54:31,492 --> 01:54:33,072
Thank you, Oriana. Anybody else?

2192
01:54:33,572 --> 01:54:34,172
All right, Mr. Chair.

2193
01:54:34,232 --> 01:54:34,492
John?

2194
01:54:34,872 --> 01:54:38,612
So I actually live on Turner Street, and I've actually been to this

2195
01:54:38,632 --> 01:54:40,732
building, and that that is a steep slope.

2196
01:54:40,932 --> 01:54:40,942
Yes.

2197
01:54:40,972 --> 01:54:44,132
So but that's not before us today. That's for someone who's gonna have to go

2198
01:54:44,172 --> 01:54:45,252
through to get a building permit.

2199
01:54:46,992 --> 01:54:48,692
And it would need a curb cut as well, wouldn't it?

2200
01:54:49,172 --> 01:54:52,312
Yep, that was the driveway point that I'm kind of flagging to double check.

2201
01:54:52,322 --> 01:54:52,792
Yeah, well, that's-

2202
01:54:52,852 --> 01:54:56,732
I think it will be fine because what the entrance to the property next door is

2203
01:54:56,972 --> 01:55:00,962
like a private access entrance. It's not a street, but with the slope where

2204
01:55:01,012 --> 01:55:03,392
it is, those driveways would have to be pretty close to each other.

2205
01:55:03,452 --> 01:55:04,952
So I wanna run that by the city engineer.

2206
01:55:05,212 --> 01:55:09,102
Sure. Okay. All right. Other than that, I mean, that, as we've

2207
01:55:09,132 --> 01:55:12,952
all said, and Oriana underscored, we're just splitting it up into three legal

2208
01:55:12,992 --> 01:55:13,592
lots, so

2209
01:55:14,712 --> 01:55:15,592
I think that's where we're at.

2210
01:55:17,332 --> 01:55:21,152
Yes, thank you. And with a lot one with a single family,

2211
01:55:21,372 --> 01:55:24,422
it's not coming back to the board because we only

2212
01:55:24,422 --> 01:55:27,732
see items that have a multi-family.

2213
01:55:27,912 --> 01:55:31,592
So if there's three or more buildings proposed on any lot,

2214
01:55:32,372 --> 01:55:34,352
that's when it comes to the board approval.

2215
01:55:34,872 --> 01:55:38,772
If it's a single family lot, like this one, the one that's

2216
01:55:38,812 --> 01:55:40,052
mostly concerned

2217
01:55:40,972 --> 01:55:44,372
with the residents here, is gonna be directly going through

2218
01:55:45,032 --> 01:55:48,532
the city, through code enforcement, through the whole

2219
01:55:48,612 --> 01:55:51,952
application process. If it gets sold off,

2220
01:55:52,752 --> 01:55:56,392
then the city actually will take responsibility to make

2221
01:55:56,452 --> 01:55:59,752
sure that the water will not run off onto other

2222
01:55:59,772 --> 01:56:03,282
parcels of property. When we have a multi-structure,

2223
01:56:03,832 --> 01:56:07,792
we make sure that we put in places certain drainage issues

2224
01:56:07,872 --> 01:56:09,172
on any multi, and

2225
01:56:10,252 --> 01:56:13,992
it's being taken care of. So there's no extra runoff.

2226
01:56:14,572 --> 01:56:18,352
Anything that I've seen in the last seven years with any of the projects that does

2227
01:56:18,392 --> 01:56:22,112
come through with my understanding is, we

2228
01:56:22,152 --> 01:56:26,072
follow up on all this, and if there is extra water, the builder

2229
01:56:26,112 --> 01:56:27,852
is responsible to taking care of that.

2230
01:56:27,912 --> 01:56:29,352
So it's gonna be

2231
01:56:30,632 --> 01:56:34,212
something that will be addressed when it comes time to build.

2232
01:56:34,892 --> 01:56:38,292
And if it does get sold, I don't know, does that just go directly to...

2233
01:56:38,492 --> 01:56:39,732
The abutters won't have any

2234
01:56:40,892 --> 01:56:44,212
say if a single building goes into play there. Was that correct?

2235
01:56:45,212 --> 01:56:48,572
Notices are sent out to direct abutters for a building permit

2236
01:56:48,672 --> 01:56:51,412
issuance, but it's a notification.

2237
01:56:51,492 --> 01:56:52,952
It's not a review period.

2238
01:56:53,072 --> 01:56:56,392
Okay. Yeah. So it'll go through the city on that.

2239
01:56:56,482 --> 01:57:00,032
So you will get notified if somebody does buy this lot anyway.

2240
01:57:00,112 --> 01:57:03,932
So you'll have some kind of understanding to know in what and who is gonna

2241
01:57:03,972 --> 01:57:07,912
buy it before it does get built. So just keep an eye out on that

2242
01:57:07,972 --> 01:57:11,942
if you see a for sale sign, and keep in contact with the city as far as

2243
01:57:11,972 --> 01:57:12,832
that drainage goes.

2244
01:57:13,772 --> 01:57:16,052
One other mention that I have on here is the knotweed.

2245
01:57:16,652 --> 01:57:17,192
I know it's not

2246
01:57:18,972 --> 01:57:21,112
part of this project now, if we're not going to disturb it.

2247
01:57:21,172 --> 01:57:23,772
But as far as the record goes, I'll bring it up because

2248
01:57:24,912 --> 01:57:28,462
Joanne Calderbank sent us an email, and I just want to bring it up to attention.

2249
01:57:28,532 --> 01:57:30,422
It's an invasive species of weeds.

2250
01:57:31,192 --> 01:57:34,912
Once it gets moved, and just like the spores go everywhere, it's challenging.

2251
01:57:34,952 --> 01:57:38,432
So she's concerned with that development of that parcel

2252
01:57:39,092 --> 01:57:43,012
with that amount of knotweed that was already taken down once, how it came back

2253
01:57:43,472 --> 01:57:46,832
tenfold. Same thing with bamboo. It's going to keep coming back, and it

2254
01:57:47,352 --> 01:57:49,972
spreads pretty quick. So that was her concern.

2255
01:57:50,052 --> 01:57:53,912
I know we're not developing it right now, but again, it's something down the road

2256
01:57:53,972 --> 01:57:54,332
on that.

2257
01:57:56,232 --> 01:57:58,172
Other than that, then thank you. Anybody? Go ahead.

2258
01:57:58,212 --> 01:58:01,152
Just one last thing, Mr. Chair. To the Max, thank you for sending this picture.

2259
01:58:01,232 --> 01:58:03,371
It's wonderful to see how it used to be.

2260
01:58:03,412 --> 01:58:06,332
My kids were so intrigued that parts of the canal are still there-

2261
01:58:06,532 --> 01:58:06,652
Oh, yeah

2262
01:58:06,662 --> 01:58:07,752
... on the back of your lot.

2263
01:58:08,842 --> 01:58:08,842
Yeah.

2264
01:58:08,872 --> 01:58:09,172
Thank you.

2265
01:58:09,552 --> 01:58:11,671
Yeah, well, you showed me that all excited, too.

2266
01:58:13,512 --> 01:58:16,692
But yeah, it sounds like you guys know that that's going to be slow.

2267
01:58:17,012 --> 01:58:17,272
Yes.

2268
01:58:17,332 --> 01:58:18,812
That's all we wanted you guys to...

2269
01:58:19,592 --> 01:58:23,572
Yeah, it'll be addressed for sure for water concerns, especially once the

2270
01:58:23,612 --> 01:58:26,832
lot gets drawn off and where they can build them and so forth from that.

2271
01:58:29,032 --> 01:58:29,682
But thank you for your-

2272
01:58:30,252 --> 01:58:32,272
I can deal with that kind of speed, I swear.

2273
01:58:33,032 --> 01:58:33,412
Right?

2274
01:58:34,292 --> 01:58:35,912
I was wondering when you were going to crack one.

2275
01:58:38,262 --> 01:58:39,812
Hey, I got a question.

2276
01:58:39,852 --> 01:58:40,612
Oh, go ahead, Jason.

2277
01:58:40,952 --> 01:58:42,492
Yeah, I got a question for Rebecca.

2278
01:58:42,592 --> 01:58:44,152
So other than single family

2279
01:58:45,092 --> 01:58:48,022
homes, what else could be built there with the zoning?

2280
01:58:50,672 --> 01:58:51,972
With the zoning?

2281
01:58:52,032 --> 01:58:52,112
Yeah.

2282
01:58:52,672 --> 01:58:52,842
Well,

2283
01:58:53,972 --> 01:58:57,872
any of the permitted uses in the zoning district could go there, but they'd have to

2284
01:58:57,932 --> 01:58:58,212
meet

2285
01:58:59,452 --> 01:59:02,952
the standards of the lot, and given the building envelope, it would be pretty

2286
01:59:03,092 --> 01:59:04,812
tough to achieve that.

2287
01:59:05,892 --> 01:59:06,272
Anything

2288
01:59:08,652 --> 01:59:12,522
that's not a single family home that is more than

2289
01:59:12,672 --> 01:59:16,611
3,000 square feet of impervious would be back before the board as a site plan.

2290
01:59:17,512 --> 01:59:20,192
But it's the list of permitted uses in the zoning districts.

2291
01:59:21,612 --> 01:59:21,852
There are-

2292
01:59:22,792 --> 01:59:23,672
It's RGA1.

2293
01:59:24,432 --> 01:59:25,832
Would you like to run-

2294
01:59:26,012 --> 01:59:26,022
There's a lot.

2295
01:59:26,052 --> 01:59:29,872
Yeah, there's quite a few, but most of them would not be feasible

2296
01:59:29,992 --> 01:59:30,972
on that size lot.

2297
01:59:31,612 --> 01:59:32,742
Cemetery, bed and breakfast.

2298
01:59:32,772 --> 01:59:35,072
But technically, yes, any of those.

2299
01:59:38,112 --> 01:59:39,032
Any other board members?

2300
01:59:39,532 --> 01:59:39,912
Thank you.

2301
01:59:41,762 --> 01:59:43,212
Thank you. Okay. Well, thank you, Dustin.

2302
01:59:43,252 --> 01:59:43,832
All right, thank you.

2303
01:59:43,841 --> 01:59:44,412
With that, the meeting is adjourned.

2304
01:59:45,752 --> 01:59:47,211
Thank you all.