[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:00] The Village City Council is committed to the ideal of a quality community, and seeks the input of community residents to maintain this objective.
[0:07] The City Council meets on the second and fourth Wednesday of each month, at 6.30 pm, in the council chambers at City Hall, all City Council meetings are broadcast live on WLV-Channel 10.
[0:19] And web streamed on the City website, accompanied by a replay schedule each week. Please stay tuned, the City Council meeting will begin shortly.
[0:27] The
[0:38] West Lake Village City Council is committed to the ideal of a quality community and seeks the input of community residents to maintain this objective.
[0:46] The City Council meets on the second and fourth Wednesday of each month.
[0:50] At 6.30 pm, in the Council chambers at City Hall, all City Council meetings are broadcast live on WLV Channel 10.
[0:58] And web streamed on the City website, accompanied by a replay schedule each week.
[1:03] Please stay tuned, the City Council meeting will begin shortly.
[1:06] The
[1:20] West Lake Village City Council is committed to the ideal of a quality community, and seeks the input of community residents to maintain this objective.
[1:28] The City Council meets on the second and fourth Wednesday of each month.
[1:31] At 6.30 pm, in the Council chambers at City Hall, all City Council meetings are broadcast live on WLV Channel 10.
[1:39] And web streamed on the City website, accompanied by a replay schedule each week.
[1:44] Please stay tuned, the City Council meeting will begin shortly.
[1:48] The
[2:00] West Lake Village City Council is committed to the ideal of a quality community, and seeks the input of community residents to maintain this objective.
[2:08] The City Council meets on the second and fourth Wednesday of each month.
[2:11] At 6.30 pm, in the Council chambers at City Hall, all City Council meetings are broadcast live on WLV Channel 10.
[2:19] And Webstream on the City website, accompanied by a replay schedule each week.
[2:24] Please stay tuned, the City Council meeting will begin shortly.
[2:28] The
[2:41] West Lake Village City Council is committed to the ideal of a quality community, and
[2:45] seeks the input of community residents to maintain this objective.
[2:49] The City Council meets on the second and fourth Wednesday of each month, at 6.30pm, in
[2:54] the Council Chambers at City Hall, all City Council meetings are broadcast live on WLV
[2:59] Channel 10, and Webstreamed on the City website, accompanied by a replay schedule each week.
[3:05] Please stay tuned, the City Council meeting will begin shortly.
[3:09] The
[3:20] West Lake Village City Council is committed to the ideal of a quality community and seeks the input of community residents to maintain this objective.
[3:28] The City Council meets on the second and fourth Wednesday of each month.
[3:32] At 6.30 pm, in the Council chambers at City Hall, all City Council meetings are broadcast live on WLV Channel 10.
[3:40] And web streamed on the City website, accompanied by a replay schedule each week.
[3:45] Please stay tuned, the City Council meeting will begin shortly.
[5:00] WLV Channel 10. And web streamed on the city website, accompanied by a replay schedule each week.
[5:07] Please stay tuned. The city council meeting will begin shortly.
[5:23] The West Lake Village City Council is committed to the ideal of a quality community.
[5:28] And seeks the input of community residents to maintain this objective. The city council meets on the second and fourth Wednesday of each month.
[5:35] At 6.30 pm, in the Council Chambers at City Hall, all City Council meetings are broadcast live on WLV Channel 10.
[5:43] And Webstreamed on the City website, accompanied by a replay schedule each week.
[5:48] Please stay tuned, the City Council meeting will begin shortly.
[6:03] The West Lake Village City Council is committed to the ideal of a quality community, and seeks the input of community residents to maintain this objective.
[6:10] The City Council meets on the 2nd and 4th Wednesday of each month, at 6.30pm, in the
[6:16] Council chambers at City Hall, all City Council meetings are broadcast live on WLV
[6:21] Channel 10, and Webstream on the City website, accompanied by a replay schedule each week.
[6:27] Please stay tuned, the City Council meeting will begin shortly.
[6:44] The West Lake Village City Council is committed to the ideal of a quality community, and
[6:48] seeks the input of community residents to maintain this objective.
[6:51] The City Council meets on the 2nd and 4th Wednesday of each month, at 6.30pm, in the Council
[6:57] Chambers at City Hall, all City Council meetings are broadcast live on WLV Channel 10.
[7:03] And Webstreamed on the City website, accompanied by a replay schedule each week.
[7:08] Please stay tuned, the City Council meeting will begin shortly.
[7:24] The West Lake Village City Council is committed to the ideal of a quality community,
[7:28] and seeks the input of community residents to maintain this objective.
[7:31] The City Council meets on the second and fourth Wednesday of each month, at 6.30 p.m. in the
[7:37] Council chambers at City Hall, all City Council meetings are broadcast live on WLV,
[7:42] Channel 10, and Webstreamed on the City website, accompanied by a replay schedule each week.
[7:49] Please stay tuned, the City Council meeting will begin shortly.
[8:05] The West Lake Village City Council is committed to the ideal of a quality community, and
[8:09] the input of community residents to maintain this objective.
[8:13] The City Council meets on the second and fourth Wednesday of each month.
[8:17] At 6.30 pm, in the council chambers at City Hall, all City Council meetings are broadcast live
[8:22] on WLV Channel 10. And Webstreamed on the City website,
[8:27] accompanied by a replay schedule each week. Please stay tuned,
[8:31] the City Council meeting will begin shortly.
[8:44] The West Lake Village City Council is committed
[8:46] to the ideal of a quality community and seeks the input of community residents to maintain
[8:51] this objective. The City Council meets on the second and fourth Wednesday of each month,
[8:56] at 6.30 pm, in the Council chambers at City Hall, all City Council meetings are broadcast live
[9:01] on WLV Channel 10, and Webstream on the City website, accompanied by a replay schedule each week.
[9:09] Please stay tuned, the City Council meeting will begin shortly.
[10:05] The West Lake Village City Council is committed to the ideal of a quality community, and seeks the input of community residents to maintain this objective.
[10:14] The City Council meets on the second and fourth Wednesday of each month.
[10:17] At 6.30 pm, in the council chambers at City Hall, all City Council meetings are broadcast live on WLV, Channel 10, and Webstream on the City website, a company by a replay schedule each week.
[10:31] Your council members are all in attendance.
[10:35] Excellent.
[10:37] I'd like to call to order the steady session meeting of the city of West Lake Village City Council on Wednesday, March 26th,
[10:45] for 35 p.m.
[10:48] Mr. Degos.
[10:53] Oh yeah, I'm sorry.
[10:57] Madam Clerk, are there any public comments?
[11:00] There are no public comments.
[11:02] What?
[11:03] What?
[11:04] I'm going to get it together.
[11:06] I'm going to get it together.
[11:07] Roll call, please.
[11:10] Council member D. This?
[11:12] Council member Pearl?
[11:14] Council member Halpern?
[11:16] Mayor Pro Temick Sweeney?
[11:19] Present.
[11:19] And Mayor Hooneck?
[11:20] Present.
[11:22] OK, now.
[11:23] Procursion goes.
[11:24] Put enforcement.
[11:25] Yes, no.
[11:26] Thank you.
[11:26] Mayor Hooneck.
[11:27] Council members?
[11:27] Good to see you all.
[11:28] The purpose of this study session of every opening remarks before our planning director will
[11:33] go over the presentation, but the purpose of this study session is for the Council to discuss
[11:38] modifications to the Code Enforcement Program, the City Council established a goal in 2024
[11:46] to evaluate and update the Code Enforcement Program that would allow for citations and financial
[11:51] penalties for violations of the municipal code, which we don't have right now.
[11:56] And also to evaluate the costs and resources that would be needed to administer a more robust
[12:02] code enforcement program.
[12:04] So that was the council goal.
[12:06] This is a study session this afternoon.
[12:09] So no specific action is needed, but we do want to advance the discussion and get further
[12:14] direction on what might be a more robust code enforcement program that could be implemented.
[12:20] The administrative committee has been working on this over the calendar year of
[12:24] 24 in particular, that was, at that time, Mayor Davis and Mayor Pro Tem Honig, and they provided
[12:32] input on the modification to the Code of Force Program, a staff has been working on it.
[12:36] So, they met on March 11th, and on May 21st, and then we had a council study session on the matter
[12:43] in September, that was September 11th, and it went back to administrative committee, and they
[12:54] the committee work and the council's stay session have been considered and we've tried to incorporate it into what will be presenting and talking about this evening.
[13:05] It's been an interesting exercise and a challenging one and in large part I see this is because we're trying to balance a number of different values that at times can be in conflict with one another a little bit.
[13:18] And that's what we're trying to sort of work through.
[13:20] And I mean by that, it's important as a value to enforce the municipal code,
[13:25] consistently, and include administrative warnings and even citations
[13:30] to achieve compliance to do that.
[13:33] Because we believe in the municipal code, we approve ordinances for a reason.
[13:38] But we also have a value of holding to a light touch, not a heavy hand as a city,
[13:44] to find ways to incentivize support and compliance that avoids sort of a penalty approach.
[13:50] So you might say more of a carrot-than-a-stick approach.
[13:54] That's been our mode of operations since incorporation.
[13:56] And I think it's a good one when we get a lot of support from our community.
[14:00] So we feel good about that.
[14:03] The planning department has been lead on this initiative.
[14:06] Planning Director Kristen asks you will provide that sort of presentation.
[14:10] And lastly, before I hand it over to Kristen, I was just important to note these assumptions
[14:15] that we're working on as staff as we try and be responsive to the council goal, which
[14:21] is deemed to evaluate and update the enforcement program.
[14:27] One of the things we really do want to do is maintain the current culture of striving for
[14:32] voluntary compliance of the municipal code, in partnership with our residents and businesses,
[14:37] with administrative citations being really rare and seldomly used as a tool, the program must be consistent with all legal requirements and best practices.
[14:50] The program must provide the necessary due diligence throughout the course of a code enforcement action.
[14:56] And if we have a more robust program, we need more structure and resources to...
[15:00] We are going to be able to manage it, which is appropriate, and so we have evaluated that as well.
[15:07] So the draft modified code enforcement program that we'll discuss today, I think it accomplishes
[15:11] a lot of what the council is wanting to do here, and we're confident we can make it happen,
[15:19] but again, there are some differences of views on this, particularly with certain types of violations,
[15:24] and so we're going to get into that a little bit today as we go through the presentation.
[15:28] but I'll pass it on to Kristin's just to sort of walk through where we are today and largely
[15:33] reflects what we discussed with Ned and Kelly at the last admin meeting in December.
[15:40] But with that, Kristin, if you'd like to see it.
[15:43] Thank you, Mr. Degos, Mayor members of Council, just sort of a brief reminder of sort of the
[15:57] of administrative citation process into our code enforcement program, you know, there have to be
[16:06] clear procedures for how fines are issued, enforced, reviewed, and collected. We have to ensure
[16:13] that there is due process by providing proper notice and opportunities for a fair hearing if one
[16:21] is desired. A hearing must be conducted by an impartial hearing officer, and that is recommended
[16:30] that a private contractor conduct this role that it is not conducted by the use of
[16:37] city employees, and that reminded that any finds must be reasonable and cannot be excessive
[16:44] in relation to the offense.
[16:50] So this next slide, which I think is going to be the bulk of
[16:53] discussion is really to outline the process of what an administrative citation process would
[17:04] look like. Currently, if you look at this display of boxes, we live currently in the
[17:15] blue and the purple. We live sort of in this voluntary world of working with the community,
[17:23] trying to get voluntary compliance. If something is just unable to get compliance, we have
[17:31] the option of sending any violation to sort of the extreme is to the prosecutor for resolution.
[17:42] Those are the two options on the table today. What this administrative citation process
[17:50] is trying to introduce is the red boxes in the middle, how to use a tool in between those
[17:56] two choices.
[17:59] What we discussed with the committee at the end of last year was what are some of some
[18:05] examples, what would it look like in this blue period before getting to these red boxes?
[18:14] what would an example of this discretionary period look like before an administrative citation
[18:22] process, you know, before that first, you know, ticket is maybe issued, you know, to keep in
[18:30] that, to keep in that realm of seldom and rare issuance. And so some of the examples we gave were
[18:39] if somebody had a recreational vehicle, perhaps in our V, perhaps a boat, that they, that they
[18:46] parked in their driveway, that is something that's not permitted in the, in the single
[18:52] family residential zones. And if it was discovered by the co-compliance officer, and you
[19:00] discussed with the property owner, that, hey, this isn't permitted, you know, how could
[19:05] be corrected. That is something that could, you know, within 24 hours, 72 hours, could be
[19:12] corrected quite easily. That is something, you know, in terms of the number of days,
[19:18] that could be corrected quite quickly. In the instance of somebody built, you know, something
[19:26] more significant, perhaps it was a block wall, perhaps we discovered somebody built the deck
[19:31] off the side of their house, off the rear of their house, and when we discovered it, oh,
[19:38] this is nearly completed. It's discovered by a code enforcement officer. This is, you know,
[19:45] this is nearly done. We need to correct this, how long, you know, what it takes to correct,
[19:52] obviously something like a 24 hour or something, you know, 72 hour, a correction period is probably
[19:59] we're not reasonable.
[20:00] Correct? That's where something like a 30 day notice of how can we, you know, what kind of resolution
[20:08] would you need to get a new contracting crew out there to remove or make modifications to get
[20:17] this to be, quote, compliant out there, give a 30 day notification, revisit the site within 30 days,
[20:26] see that progress is being made, so that we're still in this
[20:31] blueprint of warnings and not in the world of an actual
[20:37] citation. So those are some examples of continuing to be rare
[20:44] in seldom before issuing a citation.
[20:55] Any questions?
[21:00] question?
[21:03] Just to re-emphasize,
[21:07] currently, we either have compliance or that rises to the seriousness
[21:14] of suing them civilly or in a case of a criminal thing, charge them criminally.
[21:21] That's the only two options, either they comply or we take you to court.
[21:27] That's all we have right now, right?
[21:29] Those are our only tools.
[21:30] So this might be a solution to putting something in the middle between requesting a compliance and forcing a compliance.
[21:39] This is another tool available to us.
[21:42] Yeah.
[21:42] I understand.
[21:43] That's a really good point.
[21:45] Consmemidators.
[21:46] And so we don't have that red section at all right now, which is in the blue or the purple.
[21:51] And we have a really want to go to the purple.
[21:52] This is really a greatest and really a health and safety problem.
[21:56] And this structure, we also believe, we believe creates a lot of flexibility for staff.
[22:01] We don't have to get into that red zone quickly.
[22:03] It's dependent on the context of the situation if we have a homeowner or a business that is
[22:08] legitimately working with us to try and resolve the issue and it goes beyond 30 days.
[22:12] We would stay in the blue to keep resolving, no matter.
[22:16] And it's only when we've truly exhausted all those efforts and we are just not getting any
[22:21] cooperation anymore from the individual that's violating the municipal code, then we would
[22:26] move into this sort of middle section in the citation.
[22:29] But it's also with the process.
[22:32] It's nothing, it won't be a surprise, right?
[22:34] That's true.
[22:38] Thank you.
[22:39] That's understood.
[22:41] Any other comments, questions?
[22:44] OK.
[22:50] So, but we do know that in the world of leaf lore violations, that that's a slightly different
[22:58] different topic, and we feel that those violations and complaints are more numerous and
[23:09] would result in more frequent warnings and potential administrative citations for a period
[23:16] of time.
[23:18] And that additional resources would be needed to apply the revised code enforcement program
[23:25] to address the floor violations.
[23:29] The Council feedback included interest in additional pre-citation efforts, such as fix-it-tickets,
[23:39] promotional rebates, and additional education related to gasoline floor violations.
[23:45] We also have additional oak tree violations and separate considerations for unique and separate
[23:53] citation fees for those which we'll get to a little bit later. I'm actually going to ask Caleb
[24:01] to chime in here on the AQMD rebate program related to that in the fixer tickets.
[24:08] Yeah, so with electric lawn maintenance equipment, the AQMD offers a pretty robust program
[24:17] for both residential and commercial users. So for residents you can get your leafflowers,
[24:23] bloggers, lawnmowers, even chain saws. And through their process, if you come in with a receipt
[24:30] from an eligible time period inventor, you're then eligible for a rebate of $250 in the case
[24:39] of leafplores and then for commercial landscapers up to $1,400. You have to submit the gas powered
[24:46] machine to them. So you basically turn that in as well. You get this voucher. We've been promoting
[24:52] this as well. One thing to note is that currently for about a month period, the commercial
[24:58] program is on pause, but that will go...
[25:00] Back live in mid-April. So it's been closed since around March 10th of this month, and we'll resume next month.
[25:09] Some questions about that. It's your mat. How many commercial people have asked for that?
[25:19] just a guess? I don't have a guess we held a informational session about a year and
[25:28] half two years ago where we had a good handful of smaller programs and larger
[25:33] programs join us to discuss rebates with Agza and what could be coming from the
[25:39] state. So there does seem to be interested. It's certainly a discussion as we look
[25:44] at leafflowers compared to the other items. The leafflowers electric uses
[25:49] much more common than say a chainsaw. So that seems to be where most of the interest is in,
[25:55] but for a lot of the commercial accounts, it's about how much can they receive back when
[26:00] they transition over. So the more larger pots of funding that are available certainly help
[26:05] the commercial side. And what's considered commercial? So any, I mean, all of the people that do landscaping
[26:13] of a business, so what defines commercial?
[26:17] So for commercial in the AQMD, you have to be a commercial gardener,
[26:24] land-scaper, school district, colleges, local government agencies, or non-profit to be eligible.
[26:31] So commercial applies also to the public sector, excuse me.
[26:37] So, I'm a little bit confused about why we would be getting $14 to a landscaper that maybe did six
[26:49] houses in West Lake, and $30,000 in Oaks.
[26:55] The ACMD does take that into account as to how to serve that.
[27:01] So you have to be servicing and I'm looking for it here on my page,
[27:05] but I believe it is about 50 plus percent of your business
[27:09] has to be in Los Angeles County.
[27:11] Good answers.
[27:13] Thank you.
[27:14] Los Angeles County though.
[27:19] Can we make that more restrictive
[27:21] and still get the rebate?
[27:24] The AQMD program applies for all of Los Angeles County.
[27:29] We have not had any discussions with them
[27:31] about specifying for West Lake Village
[27:34] for commercial users,
[27:35] especially knowing that as a city were smaller,
[27:39] so we might represent a portion of their customer base
[27:42] becoming too restrictive could be a hang-up
[27:45] for some of these commercial accounts.
[27:47] We just add that, and this is ACMD funding,
[27:50] not city funding, that would support that.
[27:52] And I believe a county of Ventura has a similar program,
[27:56] you know, for gardeners, they're there.
[27:57] Correct.
[27:58] They have a very similar program comes from the same funding
[28:01] source that applies to commercial accounts for them as well.
[28:04] And the funding is state funded?
[28:07] That's my understanding that state grant funding goes through to fund this program and then gets replenished on what looks to be an annual basis.
[28:16] So in just a comment at this point, it seems to me that more of the rebate should go to the resident who should give it to their landscapeer.
[28:32] Because the residents or the ones that are going to be paying the fines, if we decide to go that way.
[28:40] Just wondering about the difference between...
[28:44] Is that...
[28:45] To do with the AQMD?
[28:47] There's two positive funding, so one for commercial and then one for residential.
[28:51] So if a resident did want to have their gardener use electric, they could use that rebate for their own property
[28:58] and then leave their electrically floor for the commercial gardener to use.
[29:06] Good answer.
[29:07] Has always.
[29:09] Thank you.
[29:15] And the next next option or a way to address is,
[29:21] is a fixed ticket.
[29:24] Should somebody be cited for music and gas leaf lower.
[29:28] If they're cited with the first administrative citation,
[29:32] if they were to come in within the first 30 days.
[29:36] and show proof of buying an electric leaf lower within those first 30 days, we would remove the citation within those first 30 days, so that's another option.
[29:56] And that's a administrative thing. It doesn't cost us anything.
[30:00] I mean, we're not. It doesn't fix it. It doesn't cost them anything other than buying the, buying the, the blower, buying the blower, and then just the administration part on our end of.
[30:13] Administrator is, as an outsourced administrator, or is that.
[30:19] Well, it can be done here before there's an appeal.
[30:24] I mean, we're still administering the, the, the ticket and having to, to take off the ticket. So I mean, there's a small amount.
[30:30] So it's a one-stop shop if they do, they bring in the lower or show you the receipt.
[30:36] We're still administering it, either way.
[30:40] Yeah, okay.
[30:45] So, great, go ahead.
[30:51] So just in this world of ghastly flower, some policy options to sort of guide this discussion
[31:00] moving forward, we can proceed with establishing the administrative citation procedures.
[31:07] sort of accepting that warnings and citations to achieve compliance would be more frequent during the initial enforcement period.
[31:20] Option two, proceed with establishing administrative citation procedures and accept that education and other incentives for gas powered leafflowers would remain the principle approach for enforcement.
[31:37] Third, repeal or amend the leaf lower ordinance, and fourth, which is always an option
[31:44] do not add administrative citations to the code enforcement program.
[31:51] I have a question on number two, except in education in the Senate's Regassiply leaf
[31:56] flows of violations who remain the principal approach for leaf code enforcement,
[32:03] and no citation.
[32:06] I think that this would fall more into the core principle of that administrative citations
[32:15] would be rare and seldomly used, so that education and discretion like my other examples
[32:22] would be the...
[32:23] That's where we are right now,
[32:28] again, the red being a tool, but would be rare and seldomly
[32:33] used.
[32:33] The difference in Councilman with Davis on number two there would be we would still establish the administrative
[32:39] citation program for the municipal code as a whole, right, but the direction from Council would be but but you know
[32:46] Don't go to citations for that this particular violation stay in the as a principal stay in the education
[32:54] so he's suggesting that it's it can be adopted and then
[33:00] And the implementation of that particular code, because it's so verbose, yeah, well,
[33:08] pervasive, pervasive, sorry, pervasive, thank you for the better attitude.
[33:13] That we could continue to warn, even give written warnings.
[33:18] You would get approval from the Council after that program.
[33:22] How many warnings do we put out?
[33:23] Is it time to start issuing citations?
[33:25] Is that what you've talked about?
[33:26] We could do that, Ms. Really Council's discretion, you know, just going back to the first option
[33:33] up here, what we wanted to get direction from Council was we feel like we've created a program
[33:37] that works and we have tried to address the issue of, we may see more frequent warnings
[33:44] and situations if we implement this, through the ACMD program and maybe a companion program
[33:50] inventory county plus the fix it ticket option or them is that sufficient to address the concern
[33:58] that makes it rare and unusual maybe which this is and this is unknown right once you
[34:04] we've been giving warnings for the last couple of years that this is on the books and
[34:07] this is no audience and you need to use electrically flowers but we haven't had any threat
[34:11] of a citation if we implemented a citation program that's on the books we have a structure
[34:17] resources to do that, and now someone gets a warning, and they know there's a legitimate
[34:21] citation that could follow, what would be the result, what would be the behavior change,
[34:28] you know, one could argue that we may not ever get to those citations, but they still
[34:31] would be rare, because that that warning has a little more strength to it now, and people
[34:37] will make the change and buy the right leaf off. On the other hand, I suspect we will still
[34:42] see some people, they won't abide by it and we'll get the citation.
[34:47] So we don't know.
[34:48] And then they'll come in and get the education, maybe, so we don't know.
[34:52] But the second point, which is where you were going, is that the Council can give direction
[34:58] that certain violations of their missiles.
[35:00] There are different than others. They're not all the same. Have a health and safety, impact, which is much
[35:06] more significant than you mentioned, Mayor Hoeningy. Like a fence that is the foot higher, then it should be.
[35:15] It's an aesthetic issue. It's a real issue, but it's different than a health and safety issue that we might be facing.
[35:20] So the council can give direction on leaf blow, for instance. It's a pretty pervasive in terms of the violations.
[35:26] that for a longer period of time, let's stay in that blue section of education and not go into
[35:33] citations until further direction is given by the council and that's you have that option.
[35:38] Mr. Jigos, are we deciding how flexible or in flexible our process is going to be?
[35:49] Or am I?
[35:50] And in a certain way, I would say, if you look at these options, for instance, the first one
[35:57] is less flexible in a certain way.
[36:00] If that was the direction, we would anticipate that we would be citing people for this
[36:06] by a leaf blown violation under certain circumstances after a verbal warning, written
[36:11] warning, and they didn't take advantage of the fix that ticket, and they would receive
[36:17] citations. But we're still that leaves a lot of flexibility in how we proceed, right? It's not.
[36:27] So it leaves some flexibility, but this is the direction we need, you know, if we were to,
[36:31] and we're not doing this tomorrow. So we are still still. That's fine. Yeah, but how we would deploy this
[36:36] with our code enforcement officer. We would need to know where the comfort level is with the council
[36:41] on at what point, okay, with us issuing a citation. You gave a very nice answer. I asked the question
[36:47] and kind of awkwardly.
[36:49] Sorry,
[36:52] comment, so but if we proceed with this establishing this enforcement code, this code
[37:01] and administrative procedure, that applies to all code enforcements in our city.
[37:07] That's right, I mean, it's not just about leafflowers.
[37:09] It's about any code violation, whatever that might be.
[37:14] That's great.
[37:14] And would that include oak trees, Kristen?
[37:18] It would, and that's actually my next slide.
[37:23] Any ready comments before we let her go to Oak Tree?
[37:26] Something useful.
[37:27] No.
[37:29] So I'll give what's undoubtedly going to be an unpopular opinion,
[37:33] but I'll do it anyway.
[37:35] There's one item missing on this specific slide,
[37:39] and it would be option five,
[37:41] which is to repeal the leaflet ordinance.
[37:46] It's there in Item 3, but it says repeal or amend and the reason that you would do that
[37:55] is because what we've done thus far is failed other than in the city contracts.
[38:00] We made a big change, we made a big effort with our contracts paying more, working diligently
[38:08] with our contractors to set the right example, we have done the education that has led to some
[38:15] change with our residents, but based on complaints that we're getting,
[38:23] there's at least
[38:24] a big portion of our city that is voting on this ordinance with their actions, which is
[38:33] North. And not worry about it. And then what it leaves us in the position of being is the
[38:41] leafbler police. One of the things that the city has relied on for as long as I've lived
[38:46] here is our HOA system. And how each of our neighborhoods other than one has an HOA that
[38:53] police is a number of things that are in individual CC&Rs. And as I've talked to some HOA members,
[39:00] the most unpopular thing that they do is find their neighbors.
[39:04] And then they have appeal processes.
[39:05] And then you get called in front of the board and the board agonizes over those decisions
[39:11] and often they are let the fines go figure a way out of it.
[39:15] But it's always very uncomfortable neighborhood by neighborhood and again the least popular
[39:21] thing in HOA does.
[39:23] So now what we're going to do is ask staff to be the HOA for the city while the council says,
[39:29] great idea let's enforce this all the discretion goes to staff and that now leads leaves
[39:36] rob in the city attorney in the position of being leafbower police and that flexibility
[39:42] I fear has an opportunity to be weaponized by those that come held our high water I want
[39:49] this enforced and it's in your code and if you don't do it I'm going to come to the dius and I'm
[39:54] going to yell at the council the city manager of the city attorney why are you not enforcing
[39:58] and now
[40:00] Now we're in a city-wide HOA meeting explaining the discretion that we have. This ordinance that we passed is we're talking about was aspirational. It was a goal, sustainability, and I believe it passed five to zero if I recall. Maybe four to one, but it was, it was, it was passed.
[40:19] One thing along the way, and Rob, I see in this report in Kristen that we've sort of dismissed this.
[40:26] But if our goal is behavior change, which I think is ultimately the goal, it isn't to find people.
[40:33] It isn't to create watchdogs, it isn't to put staff in a position.
[40:39] Our answer to behavior change is it's AQMD's job.
[40:46] I believe if we want behavior change, it's our job.
[40:50] And I've said, this will be now the third time, if the city wants the behavior change,
[40:56] and we should put our money where our mouth is and create a rebate program for our residents.
[41:01] It doesn't require you to turn in a gas-powered machine.
[41:05] It doesn't require you to figure out where the ACMD paper work is.
[41:09] You come down to the front desk.
[41:11] You find a lease or carol, Kristen Miles.
[41:14] You get a piece of paper.
[41:17] And we give you a hundred bucks for a receipt.
[41:20] That's it.
[41:20] There's the behavior change.
[41:21] But what we're doing is, instead, we could have a thousand questions today where we try to figure out this administrative burden that we're now going to place on staff,
[41:32] all because we want people to change their behavior, and I just think there's a better way.
[41:41] So are you suggesting it be repealed?
[41:46] I'm suggesting that something that we could consider short of some of the other suggestions I had.
[41:52] I wouldn't be opposed to a rebate program funded by the city to help people with something
[41:59] that they very apparently don't want to do, but I don't think any of us are going
[42:03] to get something out of who are fine, how great you collect at a hundred bucks.
[42:08] That's not what we want to do to our residents, I don't think, but if we gave a hundred
[42:12] bucks to change the behavior, great, let's do that, but to just say we're going to keep
[42:20] having this be aspirational and we're going to wish and hope that it all works, I'm no longer in favor of that, I think it's been a four or five year experiment that hasn't worked.
[42:34] Yeah, this is one of the most interesting discussions because it's convergence of trying to do the right thing.
[42:43] Nobody wants to have to change it so we can cite people, but there have been some
[42:47] egregious things in the past that have led us to this point, and I think it seems
[42:52] like we all agree on this, that we would like to have a tool in the toolbox, if needed,
[42:57] and use it very sparingly to give a citation to a person or party that is not following
[43:08] what needs to be followed. On the other hand, you've got an aspirational goal of, like you
[43:14] say, the leafblowers that hasn't worked. And at this point, I appreciate what staff has
[43:21] done trying to find a middle road, but it really is a non-win. And Mr. Pearl, what you've just said is
[43:27] is a very interesting proposition to find a way that we could incentivize and move forward with
[43:41] the idea of trying to make it work.
[43:46] So I like it under consideration.
[43:51] Let me add some to that. You could get a rebate from the city and still get a rebate from
[43:57] So, at that point, now you've actually, for $300, $350, you can buy one of the most expensive
[44:06] electric blowers on the market,
[44:12] it seems like a win-win to me, it seems like a win-win, and
[44:15] when you come down for your $100 rebate here, they can explain to you how you can, oh hey, did
[44:20] you know you can apply for rebate from the ACMD, here's the thing, go for it.
[44:25] Well, I think one of the things we have to consider is the administrative time and the staff time, you know, whatever we decide to do, we always have to keep that in mind.
[44:37] We're very small staff, but I agree that would be great if it's not, you know, a burden.
[44:48] Yeah, I appreciate that we are a small stuff and every new program is simple as a
[44:52] base and we talk about it up here when we're working out the details and the structure
[44:56] of it, it all adds and is only so much, so much time.
[45:02] But what I hear the council is talking about here is really number two. I think you do want to have an administrative citation procedure for the municipal code in its entirety.
[45:14] But the direction is not to be siding on leaf blows, at least now unless you give a different direction and focus on education and other incentives.
[45:23] like further rebates or other ideas could be a path forward.
[45:33] So, yes, in my opinion we should have the structure.
[45:37] We should have the citation procedure, because I think it's really important, not just for leaf blowers, but just in general, because we don't have that right now.
[45:47] have, you know, there's no reason to not have the tool, to other comments. And I mean, we can
[45:54] further discuss the leaf blower issue. What is the time 3 now we're discussing this? You know,
[46:05] my comment to that is, you touched on this before Mr. Degos. And that's the violation of the leaf
[46:17] different things, the consequence of those things are very different.
[46:21] And also of oak trees.
[46:23] In oak trees too, yes, good point.
[46:25] Yeah, they're very different.
[46:26] I mean, the same administrative procedure
[46:28] can apply, but how we would, as a matter of policy,
[46:34] enforce those, should be considered differently,
[46:37] in my opinion, because the consequence of the violation
[46:41] is extremely different.
[46:44] That being said, I think, you know,
[46:46] I would be in favor of a rebate program.
[46:52] I mean, you know, provided we can find the money in our budget.
[46:58] Quite sure how much we're living in it.
[47:02] I'm not quite sure how much we need to budget for that.
[47:07] I mean, I guess we can just do some calculations with our residents and think about that.
[47:13] But I mean, I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive.
[47:16] I'm totally opposed to repealing the leaf full of our ordinance completely.
[47:23] I think that is a bad idea.
[47:26] I do not want to do that.
[47:29] But I'm definitely willing to entertain the idea of a rebate program.
[47:35] And yeah, they could get both rebates.
[47:37] That's a good point.
[47:38] So I had.
[47:39] I was just saying that you have a limited number of residents
[47:42] who would buy a leaf blower in the first place.
[47:46] I mean, so there's a cap to that.
[47:50] And you could always, you know, you turn it,
[47:51] it's one for a resident, one for a dress,
[47:54] kind of a thing.
[47:56] And additional, because this was really, you know,
[48:00] and this actually never occurred to me,
[48:03] which, sorry, interestingly,
[48:07] just makes weaning over a year ago
[48:09] or whatever, you know, in the many long time period we've been discussing this is, you
[48:15] know, you would said, well, I just have a leaf blower at my house and then my gardener
[48:18] comes to my house. He uses my electric leaf blower. Okay, I was like a light bulb going
[48:25] off. I had never really occurred because I mean, I had told my landscape or Miguel, you've
[48:30] got a, you saw electric and he's like sure no problem. But I realize that's not the situation
[48:34] for everybody. But that's a very simple solution that can be part of the education that I don't
[48:41] necessarily know that we've described that adequately to the residents before. Here's
[48:48] something like an issue. Forget one, plug it in, leave it outside, and they'll use it when they're
[48:54] at your house. And then when they go over to woodland hills or wherever they're going, they're the next
[48:59] customer.
[49:02] Yeah. So, Mr. Matt, is there any way we could combine those two pools of money
[49:13] and minister it or you have to go today? Certainly we'd have to look at what if any partnership
[49:19] AQMD had directly or if we would be able to supplement in one fashion but that was something
[49:25] we would have to reach out to discuss a little bit more in detail with them. Would you be willing
[49:30] And to do that, I think we can have some good discussions with AQ.
[49:34] It sounds like a good idea.
[49:37] Also, Mayor Hoone, would you permit me to ask some questions, or the council to ask
[49:44] some questions that Mr. Mike Witter?
[49:48] What's he do?
[49:49] Absolutely.
[49:50] Mayor Protem.
[49:51] It's Sweeney.
[49:53] Carry on.
[49:56] Come to the podium and introduce yourself.
[50:02] It's a fun part.
[50:06] Mayor Honning. Council has been a long time since I've said this. Mike Woodard, public safety for city of West Lake village.
[50:15] And what was your job before that? Community preservation for about five years for the city of West Lake village.
[50:24] Can you shed some light on what you think about what we're discussing?
[50:30] I'm very excited about this conversation, the direction of council, I'm also very excited about.
[50:40] And what was your biggest thing that you saw?
[50:41] I know that we call it the job that you've formerly held as beautification.
[50:51] But some people and other cities call it code enforcement.
[50:53] Right, so it's community preservation.
[50:57] I dealt with a plethora of different challenges in the city.
[51:01] Some cities call that code enforcement, don't they?
[51:03] They do.
[51:05] So can you give us some kind of idea about what the most obvious
[51:15] or not agree, just I don't want to say that.
[51:19] The code's that people ignore it the most.
[51:24] I would say there's a very still a very small percentage of people that will be non-compliant,
[51:32] whether it's car washes, leaf blowers, RVs, signage, whatever the violation may be.
[51:39] We still have a very small percentage of people that are non-compliant,
[51:47] but having a tool to at least let them know that this could happen,
[51:52] would be very helpful, I think, for your community preservation slash code enforcement person.
[52:01] Anybody else want to ask them, Mr. Wither, do any questions?
[52:06] Before you work to the city of West Lake Village, what was your job?
[52:10] I worked as a deputy sheriff for the city of West Lake Village with LA County.
[52:15] And how many years were you there?
[52:17] 32.
[52:18] So you kind of know what you're doing when you're dealing with people who don't want to comply?
[52:22] I've dealt with a number like that.
[52:25] But none of them unless you're talking to make sure what your training is for this.
[52:35] Any other questions or comments for Mr. Woodard?
[52:42] Thank you.
[52:43] Thank you.
[52:43] Thank you, Mike.
[52:47] Mr. Ghost.
[52:49] Did you have some final comments?
[52:51] Well, just add on the rebate program and the cost of that.
[52:56] It's not in the budget right now.
[52:57] We do have a study session with the general fund for programs like that coming up on 9th of April.
[53:05] Which would be another good time to think about it again in context of the entire general fund budget.
[53:10] And is it in fact an area where you would like to spend money on a rebate program to buy individual families or people?
[53:20] Electrically flowers. Does that fit with the highest value that you have?
[53:26] So, I just, you'll have that context of the entire budget in a couple of weeks, so I'll
[53:30] say, we'll be taking it up here, and then.
[53:33] One of the things that I find really, I don't know what, so I want to see controversial
[53:40] about what we're talking about is that, you know, I think, to me it's pretty obvious, we're
[53:45] going to have to charge more for the assessment districts at some point.
[53:50] So, giving me rebates, then I think that's something we really have to think long and hard about when we come to the budget.
[54:05] Right, I agree because the money has to come from somewhere.
[54:08] So there's just, let's say, 3500 homes in West Lake, times 100.
[54:13] You know, that's $35,000.
[54:17] $1,000 would probably need to succeed.
[54:21] Right, if we count it everybody, right.
[54:25] I mean, yeah.
[54:26] So yes, I agree.
[54:28] If the MS isn't explaining, we'd have to consider that with our overall budgetary needs.
[54:36] I can appreciate as a council.
[54:38] We all want to see this ordinance work.
[54:42] And clearly it didn't get to where we wanted to.
[54:45] So, I really appreciate the ability to pivot and try something new that is more in line with
[54:52] the way our city works and the happy friendly approach.
[55:01] Anybody else?
[55:06] For overall comments, Mayor?
[55:09] I'm sorry. Are you looking for overall comments? I don't know where we are in the precinct too.
[55:13] Any comments you'd like to make, Mr. Pearl?
[55:18] Just briefly then. Look on the leaf lower ordinance. I hear you, Mayor Honig, the idea of repealing this is tough.
[55:27] And I understand that that's the least likely thing that's going to come out of this.
[55:33] To me, I go to the behavior change, the whole goal of this was to get people to do something
[55:38] that they're not currently doing.
[55:40] And I think for me, what Mr. Halpern just said is how I look at this, the Wesley Village does
[55:48] things differently.
[55:49] We are not perfect.
[55:50] You know, Mr. Woodard would have liked more tools in the toolbox.
[55:53] And I think that's valid.
[55:55] But I also go back to one of my old Navy terms, the kiss term, keep it simple stupid.
[56:02] And the presentation, no offense to Kristen and Caleb and the team, the presentation is pretty simple.
[56:09] The amount of work that's going to go into this, and I don't think we're keeping it simple.
[56:16] And if we're going to do anything along the lines of this code enforcement,
[56:20] And I for one would only support it in limited use, and that'd be as simple as possible.
[56:27] And one of the things I really worry about is that this is going to be weaponized by the
[56:32] occasional,
[56:35] it's a way to blow up what happens in individual HOAs to put it on steroids,
[56:40] to put it at the feet of our staff to go out and say, it's in your code, you have code enforcement,
[56:46] I want my neighbor or my ten neighbors find because they are violating this part of our code and I
[56:53] I don't want to indulge that
[56:54] I'm beginning of this, too. So how do we accomplish that?
[56:59] Mr. Degas. Well, yeah, and City Tony Bogum, I'd be able to help. I do believe we retain the discretion even with with that
[57:06] Council member Pearl and I agree we will probably
[57:09] Receive that if this new tool was in the old toolbox and people know it. I want us to pursue it
[57:16] on their neighbor or whatever, we will see that, but we were able to handle that and we
[57:24] are on discretion and be reasonable as to when we need to amend the lift floor code.
[57:34] We wouldn't need to amend it necessarily. It's an option because the council can also give
[57:39] direction that we don't want to see citations for the lift floor violations, even though it's
[57:46] that direction, and we wouldn't pursue citations. We'd continue with education and other incentives.
[57:55] But it's a councilman's point. There are times where you do want to have this tool.
[57:59] I want to be able to use a citation. It's infrequent. It's seldom, but it does come up from time to time.
[58:04] Right. So we're talking about the entire municipal code.
[58:08] municipal code. And it would, wouldn't it be nice if we could have that kind of discretion
[58:15] always with these tools put in but of ultimate discretion of the city manager? Is that possible?
[58:30] I think that's generally how it would work. I certainly would not be comfortable if this was in place
[58:35] any stuff giving a citation without me looking at it and giving the okay. And that would be pretty
[58:42] rare.
[58:44] Aaron's, I should have asked you the question.
[58:48] I agree with Mr. Degos. That's an easy answer. Really what if the Council
[58:55] moves forward with this administrative citation ordinance you are creating your adding a tool
[58:59] to your kind of arsenal of options and it's up to the Council to give staff direction on your
[59:05] priorities in terms of what you think is most important to focus on and perhaps less important
[59:11] as we discussed earlier and certainly if the council feels that energy and resources should
[59:17] not be spent issuing citations for leaf lowers, that's a direction you can give to staff
[59:21] and that will be followed, but that's not the sort of thing you need to, that you need to
[59:25] amend your leaf board, you do not need to amend your leaf board or ordinance to say that, that's
[59:29] just direction you give staff and that will be followed.
[59:33] You know, just like we're doing tonight, we're modifying what was already decided.
[59:40] If we're going to be giving way public funds as an incentive, and the AQMD is also providing,
[59:48] it doesn't provide much excuse for not going ahead and getting it.
[59:52] For any resident here, right, and at a later date, we can also revisit this and say, you
[59:59] Here's some.
[1:00:00] I think we look at the data. How many have we given away how many people aren't complying and we can adjust the citation policy then as we see fit?
[1:00:12] So there is flexibility.
[1:00:16] Two Mr. Pearl's HOA comment that I actually really agree with that.
[1:00:22] You know, I mean, having personal experience with that, I, that probably will occur.
[1:00:29] You're, I mean, the, what you're talking about the weaponization of it, because, you know, throughout
[1:00:34] the different HOAs in our city, we've, out different levels of issues.
[1:00:40] I think that the discretionary factor, what Rob was just talking about, that no citation
[1:00:48] and whatever be issued without him saying yes or no, I think that being in play is really
[1:00:57] important because we know our residents and the origin of the complaint, I think would
[1:01:03] weigh into that.
[1:01:04] Like we, you know, I think he would know where it might be coming from.
[1:01:09] I wanted to ask too, with regard to the HOA's, I mean, what do you, what do you counsel think
[1:01:17] about their role in this.
[1:01:19] In other words, if we proceed, it sounds like we're going to proceed with establishing this administrative
[1:01:25] citation procedure.
[1:01:27] Then the next step will be what are we going to do about enforcing it.
[1:01:31] Maybe little.
[1:01:33] What do you want the HOA role to be in this?
[1:01:36] In other words, we've talked about the weaponization, which I agree.
[1:01:42] It will be a problem, hopefully not a big problem, maybe a tiny problem, but it'll be
[1:01:46] there.
[1:01:47] But what do you see the HOA responsibility if anything for this going forward?
[1:01:54] Education?
[1:01:56] I mean, I would like to see them tell their residents, hey, this is what the city's
[1:02:02] done.
[1:02:03] This is the tool that they have now.
[1:02:05] But here's the, you know, assuming we can do this budget-wise.
[1:02:10] Here's the rebate program.
[1:02:12] Here's the ACMD rebate program.
[1:02:15] You know, I'm talking about leafflowers, but I mean, about anything, you know, fences and that kind of thing.
[1:02:22] What do you, what would you like to see? I mean, I think that's an important thing to consider.
[1:02:26] I think they can be, each always can be used as an extension of the city's message.
[1:02:30] Mm-hmm.
[1:02:31] Exactly.
[1:02:34] So, each always have this, my age, well, I'll talk about that.
[1:02:38] I was present at that age for six years on it for nine.
[1:02:44] In our HOA, there's 209 lots and there's not a great deal of interest in the HOA activities.
[1:02:54] There aren't any amenities that we have, the most expensive thing we have in the trails is the weed abatement on the hillside.
[1:03:01] So there's not a lot of things to actually needing to communicate with respect to problems and stuff like that.
[1:03:08] So oftentimes the communication you get from the HOA board goes into the trash because you see it as a junk mail or something like that.
[1:03:21] So you have the same communication problem reception in the HOA that you do here.
[1:03:27] We would have multiple ways of putting out information and people say I never heard about it until all the sudden we're taking a vote in here and then we hear about.
[1:03:34] So to Brad's point and to the point where if we've got an educational program here they can
[1:03:44] be an extension of that and that AQMD thing actually applies to their gardener as well.
[1:03:52] Well, it's not a city thing necessarily and the HAA can help the vendors to their residents
[1:04:02] And how to go to the city and the city will show you how to get the AQMD thing.
[1:04:06] I mean, that's the service we could actually provide to these entrepreneur type or, you
[1:04:13] know, mom and pop, kind of services that are doing your lawn.
[1:04:18] So it could be a very big asset as this, and kind of takes a pressure off of that, that
[1:04:23] they H-O-A board, because you're saying, well here, this is the city thing, this is how
[1:04:27] the city is doing it, and throw it to us.
[1:04:30] This would be the one time where you'd want anything
[1:04:37] else in any other comments or questions.
[1:04:40] So Rob, can I ask you a question?
[1:04:43] As the person, we would write this with the ultimate discretion line with the city manager.
[1:04:50] That puts you in the middle of the council, the staff, and our residents, and certain circumstances.
[1:04:56] And to that angry resident who thinks your discretion is be...
[1:05:00] Being abused or you are wrong or you're playing favorites or you're just flat out, making a bad decision.
[1:05:10] That puts you in a tough spot. What's your reaction to the council placing you there?
[1:05:16] That's a trade-off. To establish this program. There's some risk of that.
[1:05:24] But there's lots of opinions about lots of things every day that I'm working through and
[1:05:30] I'm pretty careful about decisions and being in close conversation with all of you about what
[1:05:36] you all believe is reasonable and sometimes I know that you don't always agree necessarily,
[1:05:40] but I'll tread carefully and I wouldn't be trading very carefully with respect to citations certainly.
[1:05:47] I do think on balance having an administrative citation program as a tool for the city is important and appropriate.
[1:05:56] We just need to deploy it very, very carefully.
[1:05:59] And I think on the leaf blowup item, I think it's number two up there.
[1:06:05] We need to stay in the education, further incentive, you know, lane for some time longer.
[1:06:11] But let's see if we can get a rewrite program that really works that we can afford to have
[1:06:15] the Kachos thing, because she's probably thinking how we fit this in.
[1:06:19] But maybe that's something we can do, and then come back to whether citations are appropriate
[1:06:24] in a future time for that particular type of violation, though, I'm okay with it.
[1:06:30] One more thing, to Ms. McSweeney's point, it should be publicized that one of the angles
[1:06:36] is to have a leaf-blower onsite that any gardener can pick up a use that really has not been pushed
[1:06:44] and we should exert that push.
[1:06:46] I agree that has not been pushed because literally it never occurred to me.
[1:06:51] I mean.
[1:06:52] So we certainly can do that.
[1:06:54] I think that's really good direction.
[1:06:57] We're not there yet.
[1:06:58] We're going to continue to work the issue.
[1:07:00] There is one last slide and it relates to oak trees.
[1:07:03] I think there's more consensus among the council on this topic, but it's also one
[1:07:06] unique type of violation that can't be corrected in certain circumstances, so that which is
[1:07:12] a particular challenge and that's why we believe a different type of fee structure is appropriate
[1:07:17] for that type of violation. Kristen, you want to just finish up with this slide.
[1:07:22] Correct. So in the world of oak trees, if a violation is discovered, illegal trimming,
[1:07:36] illegal
[1:07:36] you can't move the boat out of, you know, out of the driveway. So, you know, a different sort of
[1:07:47] corrective remedy for that is proposed as it relates to oak trees. So, the remedy for that is when
[1:07:59] The violation is discovered depending on
[1:08:05] the, the, the, the width of the tree, that would be the violation.
[1:08:10] So, for violation is discovered, an arborist inspects it, and a citation is given based on, based on the diameter of a tree.
[1:08:19] And so, the, you know, as proposed, you know, up to $10,000 off for the, the white history possible is proposed.
[1:08:29] So if there's any questions related to oak trees?
[1:08:35] Yeah, I just have a question. So the state regulates oak trees, right?
[1:08:40] And it's already against law to trim an oak tree.
[1:08:46] Well, I mean, oak trees are protected to protect tree, but I think each individual city and county,
[1:08:52] we have our own ordinance because it relates to oak trees.
[1:08:56] So this would be related to our specific, okay, thank you.
[1:09:01] I have a question, Mr. Bogot,
[1:09:06] I have two ancient oak trees on my property,
[1:09:13] and I have about ten others that are on the property as well, but they're not ancient.
[1:09:18] Some of them are different species, some is live oak and some is a valley oak, the valley oak, because the deciduous tree, the live oak is an evergreen.
[1:09:32] Many of, I've lived in this property for almost 30 years, and I have seen trees that were not there 30 years ago that are now there.
[1:09:43] But this has to do with the size of a tree.
[1:09:48] These trees can be massive, and they also can be hidden from regular view.
[1:09:58] And my concern is...
[1:10:00] Is that if I'm a resident and I want to push my, I want to build a pool, and there's an oak tree in my backyard,
[1:10:14] and the pool's going to cost me $100,000, let's say, which is probably cheap, but $100,000.
[1:10:22] For 10% of that, I can cut that tree down and just pay the city 10 grand and give them
[1:10:28] four oak tree replacements.
[1:10:32] But the value of that tree is much better, much higher than $10,000.
[1:10:37] So how do you justify putting a cap on an oak tree at $10,000?
[1:10:45] So it's a very good question, Council Member Davis.
[1:10:47] for the administrative citation ordinance state law
[1:10:50] does regulate the amount of fines that a city can impose.
[1:10:55] And this, the $10,000 amount is actually pretty aggressive
[1:10:58] under the state standards, if there was an egregious situation
[1:11:03] where for whatever reason, if it's determined that $10,000
[1:11:07] just doesn't cut it, then you would, as a city, not the council,
[1:11:11] but as a city, the matter could be sent to the city prosecutor
[1:11:14] to go straight to the sort of court process.
[1:11:16] and maybe through that process, the dependency could be even greater than that.
[1:11:21] So this is really, the $10,000 fine is really just the administrative process.
[1:11:25] It's not necessarily the cap if you went, if the prosecutor went a different route to
[1:11:30] the court system.
[1:11:32] The only other thing I would add is, again, these numbers were picked deliberately and cities
[1:11:41] do have to be careful about the fine amounts.
[1:11:44] Just a couple of months ago, and I'm pointed to this out to staff, there was a court decision involving Humboldt County where they had an ordinance about illegal cannabis activity, and they basically had a similar administrative citation system, and it's basically each day of a violation between $6,000 and $6,000.
[1:12:06] And that was challenged in court and the court ultimately said that that's potentially
[1:12:11] in constitutional because you could run up a fine that far exceeds the value of the property.
[1:12:17] So that's the kind of the outside of things we're looking at, when we pick these numbers,
[1:12:22] we're keeping, we don't want to make ourselves a target for a lawsuit, we're also recognizing
[1:12:28] that this is just because it's $10,000 here, the prosecutor could still go to court and maybe
[1:12:32] get a higher fine if there was, if it was warranted, if the situation was warranted.
[1:12:36] And where does it say that an ordinance that isn't confusing?
[1:12:41] Well, I mean, I've not certain, the ordinance has drafted doesn't, the ordinance has drafted
[1:12:47] basically says, that's in your packet says, you know, this administrative fine system doesn't
[1:12:53] stop the city prosecutor from doing other options.
[1:12:56] So, I mean, that's as close as we get to that, I mean, we're not, you can't really
[1:13:00] So before us tonight is another issue about an ordinance that we had that was somehow, there was a gray interpretation, and I want to make sure that our ordinance oak tree ordinance, this is the third time on this council that I have been here discussing oak tree ordinances and the inability to prosecute or the inability to hold responsible a party that damages the tree.
[1:13:24] And I want to make sure that if after 10,000 bugs, if it's worth $100,000, that tree,
[1:13:31] that it's very clear in the ordinance that that could also happen, that the prosecution
[1:13:36] could happen.
[1:13:37] Because what I get from this and what I would automatically think about our ordinances,
[1:13:42] once the city is through finding you, it's over.
[1:13:46] No.
[1:13:47] I mean, the fine doesn't absolve you of correcting the violation.
[1:13:50] You can't correct your violation.
[1:13:52] It's a 400 year old tree.
[1:13:53] I understood. So I'm what I'm saying is I think in an agreed situation, it wouldn't be
[1:13:59] the city would not. Again, I'm not deciding who gets prosecuted. But the city would not
[1:14:05] basically issue it $10,000 fine and then separately the city prosecutor would go to court.
[1:14:10] I think what would happen in that case if in a really bad situation is the city prosecutor
[1:14:13] just goes to court and tries to get the maximum fine that can be imposed.
[1:14:17] Okay. Now as a practical, this is a practical point. The cost of taking someone to court overcutting down a tree.
[1:14:28] I don't see that as being rather, I won't call it practical. I just don't think it's probably likely.
[1:14:38] So how can we increase the fine from $10,000 to cap in case it's an ancient tree?
[1:14:46] or, you know, a tree that's 50 years old
[1:14:49] is not the same value as a tree that's 150 years old.
[1:14:52] That's why it's a process.
[1:14:53] But they're all $10,000 if they're $36,000, $30,000,
[1:14:56] $30,000 is around it.
[1:14:59] I appreciate it.
[1:15:00] I appreciate the question. I think that the fine schedule for this administrative citations scheme, in my mind, does a good job of sort of setting different levels based on the size? And what you might see if someone will say, well, if you have it's a 50-year-old tree, but it wasn't in great health. I mean, if you're going to kind of factor in that level of detail, it's hard to do in something in a fine schedule like this.
[1:15:25] and harder than to prosecute civilly as well.
[1:15:31] You're not going to want to do it.
[1:15:33] Well, I could spend the money,
[1:15:34] and I could spend the money to enforce this.
[1:15:36] I, that's ultimately a council call.
[1:15:39] Oh, he's happy to thank you.
[1:15:42] I, you know, my sense is if in a degree to situation,
[1:15:46] the council, the council probably would.
[1:15:48] And we have prosecuted people in the past.
[1:15:51] Not for oak trees, but for money,
[1:15:54] I mean, the illegal business out of their home, I can think of at least two times that
[1:16:00] we've prosecuted people and my time on the council.
[1:16:06] And I think you were there for, I was here for the cannabis flower lady.
[1:16:12] The guy who was doing, I'm thinking of flower lady, which I think was before your time.
[1:16:16] I don't remember the flower lady.
[1:16:17] Our lady was in first name, but thank you.
[1:16:23] Right, we're situated truck, you know, called the sack.
[1:16:29] Any other comments or questions on the oak tree section of our discussion?
[1:16:36] I have none, Mr. DeGos, anything to conclude?
[1:16:41] Well, just, I mean, this will strengthen our code enforcement program.
[1:16:44] It'll be better, it won't be perfect.
[1:16:46] We're going to be ways around things, there will always be, but it will be much better, I think, and stronger, and we'll have additional tools and else toolbox.
[1:16:56] What I heard from the Council is that we should proceed to finalize the drafting of a policy and procedure to have a more robust code enforcement program, specifically for the leafflowers to explore a rebate program
[1:17:15] As a companion to the ACMD program, I will take a look at that in a couple of weeks as part of the overall budget to see if that can be included.
[1:17:24] And then present a final draft to the admin committee on the new procedures for code enforcement and then present to the full council for consideration.
[1:17:33] Is that correct?
[1:17:36] Yes?
[1:17:37] Yes?
[1:17:38] Yes.
[1:17:42] I'll take it.
[1:17:43] You can take the emergency road, Mr. Pearl.
[1:17:45] All right, but then if we have nothing else, the study session is adjourned at 5.
[1:17:53] Which one?
[1:17:54] Oh.
[1:17:54] Okay, 5.
[1:17:56] 43.
[1:17:56] I have more money than God.
[1:17:57] I can do that one.
[1:17:59] Thank you.
[1:17:59] See you at 630.
[1:18:00] See you next time.