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All right. Good evening everybody. It's

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Monday, January 12th at 6:03

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p.m. So, I'm going to call tonight's

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meeting of the housing committee to

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order. [snorts] First order of business

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is approval of the minutes of our last

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meeting.

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Uh, I forget the date though I have read

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the minutes and they look good to me.

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>> The date was um

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>> Oh, never mind. What? December 8th.

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>> Very, very comprehensive.

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>> Yeah. Yeah. Any corrections, additions,

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modifications,

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and if not, somebody might be so kind as

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to move to approve the minutes.

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>> I move that we approve the minutes.

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>> Second.

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>> All right. Uh, we will do our usual roll

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call vote because we're remote. Um, in

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my list of names, Fred Orloski,

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>> yes.

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>> Jerry,

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>> yes.

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>> Monserat,

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>> yes.

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>> Paula,

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>> yes.

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>> Fred Baron,

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>> don't get to vote.

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I you know,

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I know you're you're really missing out.

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And I vote yes. So, it is the minutes

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are unanimously approved of December

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8th. Okay. Uh the next item I threw on

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because

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uh the discuss the housing committee

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budget for FY2027.

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Um so I noted I got a message from the

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town administrator about that we never

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submitted any budget request. Seems like

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by default, I don't know who did it,

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certainly wasn't me, that the 2026

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budget that ends June 30th set aside

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$500 for the housing committee. I don't

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know.

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>> I I think that was because that's what

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it had been for years before that.

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>> Yeah.

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>> And they just carried it over. And

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I don't know, does anyone have any I

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don't know that we really have any

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costs. I can certainly throw in a

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>> Well, I I was thinking about this and we

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might if we want to do any work on the

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Deo property, like hire someone to do,

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>> you know, survey or something like that.

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We might want some money to cover that.

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I saw Jerry nodding to that. Yep.

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>> Um agree.

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>> And I think it might be worthwhile to

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put in

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for $1,000 or even 1,500 knowing that

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it'll have to be defended and

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but to have a budget

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that we can use to do that kind of, you

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know, very preliminary

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consultancy or surveying or whatever.

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>> Right. We can talk about that in a

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minute, but that's probably on the low

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side.

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>> Yes. Okay, I'm I was just picking a

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figure at random.

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>> Uh but you can go ahead. But I think we we

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should prepare for that by having a

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budget request rather than just going

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along and the past number.

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>> Okay. Okay. I think in the in the past

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we've used some money I could remember

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for for postage when we did a mailing

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postcard mailing for some uh housing

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funding activity. I think around COVID

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time or something we had a mailing and

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it was I'm guessing three or $400 for

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postage to mail a postcard to every uh citizen or property owner in

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town. So that's what we used some of it

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for in the past. And I don't know if we

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want to do some any kind of mailing this

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year or next year,

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>> right?

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» Did we anything this year?

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>> I'm sorry. Go ahead, Jerry.

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>> Did we expend anything this year?

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>> As far as I know, nothing. I have seen I

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looked at the most recent town summary

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report and saw just that that was set

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aside but there were no expenses against

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it.

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>> Can I ask a clarifying question?

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>> Please.

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>> So um

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who was it who said this to you? Was it

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Peter?

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Well, I have I

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we've those of us who are board chairs

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have received various, you know, emails

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regarding future appearances before the

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finance committee, which Jerry can

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attest to, uh, to defend various

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budgets. And I noted in an email that

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among other committees, housing was

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listed with a note from that basically

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said no budget sheet has been submitted

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which makes sense because none of us

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would have done that.

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>> And so and are they asking us to submit

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one now and is it the right time or are

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we submitting something late?

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>> It's Well, Jerry, what do you think?

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>> Jerry, you're a chair, right? or or like you're you're a kahuna on the

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finance committee.

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>> I am in interim chair until next week's

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reorganization. See where that goes.

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>> Okay.

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>> Yeah, we're having our first meeting

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next week and then the budgets the

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reviews will begin in earnest a couple

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weeks later. So, I would imagine the

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Dunning notices

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are a way to try to get ahead of all the

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paperwork that needs to be compiled

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because the budgets come to us in a very

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thick binder with every department's

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budget and every department's backup.

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And so the idea of having a Dunning

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notice, I think the concept of, hey, if

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you didn't submit and you don't see a

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great need, then we'll just use last

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year's is probably, you know, fine. But

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to Mr. Baron's point, um, we should talk

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a little bit about five or 268 State

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Road. I'm not sure that needs to be in

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this budget or there may be some other

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options.

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>> Yeah.

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>> But that definitely comes to mind uh to

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me. might need a little something for

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something in there.

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>> Yeah. Yeah. Well,

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>> placeholder.

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>> Given that these budget meetings are

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coming up in [snorts] soon and probably

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before our next regular meeting of the

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housing committee, we should make a

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decision tonight on a number.

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>> Um,

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and you know, uh,

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>> yeah, the first meeting start on

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February 4th.

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>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

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>> but I don't have the list yet. But the other the other thing that would

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come up that we could use this this

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money for and I have on other committees

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is if we any of us wanted of the

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committee housing committee wanted to

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attend a seminar or a meeting or

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workshop say in Worcester or Boston or

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statewide anywhere uh our expenses for attending that would be covered

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under under this item.

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which would include if there's a

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registration fee, also mileage. If you

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have to travel to Boston, 100 something

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miles either way, that would be eligible

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expense to use against this dollar

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amount we have in our budget.

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>> Yeah, I I think that's what the

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>> why there's $500 there

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>> in there,

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>> you know, on a regular basis. I think

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what we're probably going to be talking

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about is whether we need to up that

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number.

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>> Yeah. for contingencies on 268 State

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Road.

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>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, tell you what,

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why don't we um table this for the

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moment. We'll come back to it. So, let's

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talk about the Deo property where we are

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um and and what we might do in FY2027.

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And again, we're talking about the

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budget year starting July 1. Um, and

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what we have for through June 30th is

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$500. That was put in our budget. So, if

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there are expenses that we have for

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mailings or seminars or trainings or

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what have you, we do have some money

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allocated to us by, you know, forces

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unknown.

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All right. So, um, I I'll turn it over

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to Jerry. I I have basically from

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shortly after our last meeting been

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diverted into sort of a family emergency

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that has given me no time to follow up

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on anything for any border committee and

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I just returned home earlier today. So

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um over to you Jerry.

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>> Great. So I have uh three meetings to

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try to bring up. I'll try to be as brief

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as I can. One with board of health, one

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with the uh chief field engineer for

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Birkshire Design Group focusing on uh

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septic issue, and one with uh Gina over

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at the uh Franco County Regional Housing

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Authority also representing uh RDI.

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So, I've had conversations with all

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three and I'll I'll try to be brief but

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be happy to answer questions as best I

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can.

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>> Can you repeat what was the last meeting

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again?

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>> Sure. The last meeting was with the

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board of health director and I'm looking

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for her last name. Gina

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Whitney Monsur.

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>> I thought Gina was with uh the Franklin

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Regional Housing Authority and RDI.

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>> She is, but I just uh Giovani, I believe

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it is. Uh, hang on.

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>> That sounds right.

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>> G O V O N I.

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» Okay.

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>> Um, from where?

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>> Uh, she's with the Franklin County

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Regional Housing Authority out of

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Greenfield,

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>> but also they are connected to

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interlaced with the development company

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RDI.

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which stands stands for Rural

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Development, Inc.,

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>> right? Which builds affordable housing.

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They've done about 100 apartments, 100

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units to date since uh 1990.

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So anyway, let me go back to the board

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of health because I think I need to sort

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of build it from there.

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I had sent around some an email from

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uh Fran

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over at the board of health saying,

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"Hey, you know, your system that you

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picked isn't on this official mass uh

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call it D listing of alternative

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treatment plants.

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I then came into a conversation with

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Sydney and a gentleman named Glenn Ays

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who's pretty pretty drilled down on

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where we need to go and basically had

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the following to say cutting to the

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chase. It will be very unlikely

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even if that system were to be approved

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and it was from the short list that you

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would ever be able to discharge clear

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water into a brook that's inside of a

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conservation area. He said, "If it's

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100% rainwater coming down, nobody

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cares. But the environmentalist will be

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over your case. It will take years of

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public input and approval if there's no

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current discharge into the stream. Not a

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good way to go. You need to look at

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alternatives. Alternatives meaning below

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the ground." And we talked a lot about

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that. Um there are a number of systems

274
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which disperse just like the septic

275
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,120
system at your house houses below the

276
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,440
ground that perk um and are buried and

277
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:27,600
work through a hydraulic process.

278
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,680
He said the most important thing to do

279
00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:32,000
and to consider starting with is how

280
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,000
much capacity and this made all the

281
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,920
sense in the world to me. How much

282
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:41,120
capacity does this site have to support

283
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,480
the treatment of water waste? While

284
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,120
restaurant generates quite a bit, it

285
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,279
doesn't translate necessarily to

286
00:12:49,279 --> 00:12:53,600
apartments. The town health department

287
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:58,320
has a limit of 110 gallons per bedroom

288
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,440
per day. If you build two bedrooms, but

289
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,880
it has one bathroom, your limit, you

290
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,360
can't exceed 210

291
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:12,000
gallons per day. If you don't know how

292
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,600
fast your soil can perk and how much it

293
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:16,959
can hold,

294
00:13:16,959 --> 00:13:19,760
>> then you need to figure that out to back

295
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:24,160
into can this site sustain 10 units, 12,

296
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:29,200
24, 30, 50 units. We talked about a

297
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,120
number of

298
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,839
um issues relative to the two-bedroom

299
00:13:33,839 --> 00:13:36,320
versus onebedrooms. I don't believe any

300
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:37,519
developer is going to come in and want

301
00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:40,000
to build all two bedrooms. He said

302
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,360
that's not a problem with the board of

303
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:42,560
health. If you want to build one

304
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:45,440
bedrooms, we're happy to give a variance

305
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:49,120
on that. He said there is the alternate

306
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,560
technology list which has a series of

307
00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:55,519
vendors that provide these wastewater

308
00:13:55,519 --> 00:13:59,680
treatment plants at different loads. But

309
00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:01,684
before you come in front of

310
00:14:01,684 --> 00:14:03,040
[clears throat] us, we're going to want

311
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,199
to see a sign off from a physical

312
00:14:05,199 --> 00:14:08,000
engineer, a PE, which is basically a

313
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,680
civil sanitary engineer to tell us this

314
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:13,680
is what's happening with the property.

315
00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:16,320
And that makes sense. We went down. They

316
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,800
don't want to provide a specific list,

317
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:20,800
but they went down a list of four or

318
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:25,519
five people. I recognized one of the uh

319
00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:28,399
players, a company called Birkshshire

320
00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:30,000
Design Group.

321
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,920
>> Um they're doing work over at my

322
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,360
mother-in-law's condo over at Sugarluff.

323
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,120
Um but they've actually done actually a

324
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,279
lot of work uh even here in town. They

325
00:14:39,279 --> 00:14:41,760
did apparently a lot of the study on

326
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,839
townland around the I91 exit

327
00:14:45,839 --> 00:14:48,399
uh and some other areas.

328
00:14:48,399 --> 00:14:51,120
So anyway, I had two calls with I then

329
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:52,800
went on to have two calls with Berkshire

330
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:54,639
Design Group after I spent an hour with

331
00:14:54,639 --> 00:14:56,639
the board of health.

332
00:14:56,639 --> 00:14:58,320
talked with an initial guy that I had

333
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,600
contact with from uh the sun the South

334
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,680
Deerfield project, the condo project,

335
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,040
and then connected with their principal

336
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,560
uh PE, physical engineer, a fellow named

337
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,240
Chris Chamberlain.

338
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,880
>> Oh yeah, I know Chris

339
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,120
design has come before the planning

340
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,199
board many times on many different

341
00:15:19,199 --> 00:15:21,040
projects across town there, which he had

342
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:21,360
mentioned.

343
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,839
>> I've always been really professional and

344
00:15:23,839 --> 00:15:25,199
on top of things.

345
00:15:25,199 --> 00:15:27,440
>> Yeah. So he he seems pretty squared

346
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,120
away. He went through the VHB

347
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,680
feasibility analysis and also the

348
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,720
material I send him on aquat. He agrees

349
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,480
you're never going to put water in that

350
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,079
stream. Take that off the table. He said

351
00:15:42,079 --> 00:15:45,360
the VHB physibility study was more

352
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,240
centered focused on quote what's

353
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:53,040
possible versus what really makes sense.

354
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,360
And he said, "What you really have to

355
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,920
do, which the board of health had also

356
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,240
said, is figure out what you can

357
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,720
actually do with the property." And that

358
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,600
would fall on probably three different

359
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,360
areas. One, an area of soil exploration

360
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,360
to determine what kind of soil do you

361
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,519
have here because a lot of this was not

362
00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:20,320
inside of the VHB feasibility study. Is

363
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,120
it sandy? Is it silty? Is it sandy

364
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,560
everywhere? Silty everywhere, etc. Two,

365
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,079
a perk test, multiple perk tests within

366
00:16:30,079 --> 00:16:31,759
the footprint of what would be

367
00:16:31,759 --> 00:16:35,279
considered to be the buildable area.

368
00:16:35,279 --> 00:16:37,920
And the third is examination of the

369
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,320
flood plane

370
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,000
elevations.

371
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,839
He said the VHB study did not really

372
00:16:45,839 --> 00:16:48,240
look at flood plane.

373
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,480
U the most recent flood planes were just

374
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,040
released. He did look at it and said it

375
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,320
does not appear. Um he said you're close

376
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,240
to what FEMA might call a flood plane

377
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,399
but not necessarily there but you should

378
00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:03,680
confirm that before you go too far down

379
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,240
the road. He said that's very easy to do

380
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,559
with some GPS and some lasers. They can

381
00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:12,079
know exactly how things lay out.

382
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:14,640
>> So it's more about first step would be

383
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,679
doing perk test to inform what the

384
00:17:17,679 --> 00:17:19,760
design possibly could be. That will tell

385
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,720
us how many gallons per day the site can

386
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,679
absorb by looking at basically the

387
00:17:25,679 --> 00:17:28,160
number of gallons per square foot per

388
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:32,880
day that the site itself can do. He said

389
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,760
relative to groundwater you have to

390
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,960
build a mound 4t above where groundwater

391
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:40,640
is.

392
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,720
alternate systems, he said, can reduce

393
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,240
obviously the footprint of your leech

394
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,720
field. And they're great because if you

395
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,799
get the drip irrigation that I was

396
00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:51,120
describing earlier in my conversation

397
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:52,880
with the board of health, you can move

398
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:54,480
that around trees, you can move it

399
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,480
around buildings. It doesn't have to be

400
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,960
a straight field. If it's a straight

401
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,720
field, you can't build on top of it,

402
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,880
meaning you can't landscape, can't put

403
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,200
up trees, you can't stick a pigota,

404
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,000
whatever the case may be.

405
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,480
You also need to account, and this was

406
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,000
brought up by the board of health, for

407
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,720
storm water discharge coming off your

408
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,080
new building. You're putting on a roof

409
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,640
of a building, maybe outside parking,

410
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,720
maybe not, but whatever the case, you're

411
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,559
going to move storm water around and

412
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:26,799
that needs to be considered as well and

413
00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:28,559
would need to pass the conservation

414
00:18:28,559 --> 00:18:30,960
commission as Monzerat I think you had

415
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,600
mentioned before whether or not you have

416
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,280
to go into a different discharge

417
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,000
what they call compensatory storage is a

418
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,679
question. It all depends on the

419
00:18:41,679 --> 00:18:45,120
measurements and the feedback of the

420
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:48,080
study. So

421
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,320
netn net

422
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,440
they he sees it structured as follows

423
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,160
that there be a a proposal that he could

424
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,039
put together with a variety of phases

425
00:18:59,039 --> 00:19:02,320
levels. first to define

426
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,720
um he said importantly

427
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,320
you you you need to test for traditional

428
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,080
septic to see what works as traditional

429
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,799
septic so that if you go the route of

430
00:19:14,799 --> 00:19:17,440
alternate and alternate for some reason

431
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,760
fails down the road the health

432
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:21,440
department will have because they'll be

433
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,760
part of that perk test and part of the

434
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,520
record the health department can at

435
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,160
least say hey it's the fallback it's

436
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,840
bulletproof because we approve it for

437
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,720
septic routine and now we approve it for

438
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,160
the other potentially with conditions of

439
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,679
annual maintenance yada yada yada.

440
00:19:39,679 --> 00:19:41,840
>> So that's sort of phase one flood plan

441
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,000
review, septic test. Phase two would be

442
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,039
basically getting into let's call it the

443
00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:51,280
drawing elements and supporting charts

444
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,039
to say what size systems can you put in.

445
00:19:55,039 --> 00:19:57,679
If you want to have a 30-unit building,

446
00:19:57,679 --> 00:20:00,400
do you need two or three alternate

447
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,320
systems? What would that look like

448
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,679
placed around the site, etc.? Because

449
00:20:05,679 --> 00:20:09,679
this company has landscaping, civil, and

450
00:20:09,679 --> 00:20:11,440
surveying all within the same

451
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,080
wheelhouse, it's very easy for them to

452
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,520
ramp up. And as I pointed out to him,

453
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,760
there would come a point in which the

454
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,679
town is not interested in designing the

455
00:20:21,679 --> 00:20:24,160
skin of the building. The town I believe

456
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,480
is interested in understanding what can

457
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:31,200
it physically do clear the pathway for a

458
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:35,520
developer to come in and begin saying

459
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,520
I'm interested in this and understanding

460
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,960
everything from floor plan restrictions

461
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,000
to conservation to how the housing

462
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,440
authorities might look at it and all

463
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,200
that's been sort of runway cleared for

464
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,200
them you said would be extremely

465
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,240
beneficial as would having the basic

466
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,240
study so they don't have to go out and

467
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:59,280
do it. Cost of that uh he said it's not

468
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:00,880
$1,000

469
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,600
he said but it's not multiple thousands

470
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,720
above 10 so it's between one and 10 if

471
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,039
he had to shoot off the top of his head.

472
00:21:09,039 --> 00:21:11,120
Yeah, I told him, are you talking about

473
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:14,799
the um the second phase of planning?

474
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:16,960
>> The first phase to go in,

475
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,280
>> do the perk test, coordinate with the

476
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,559
board of health to sign off on it, do

477
00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:24,640
the elevation test relative to your

478
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,600
flood plane, etc. Understand how the

479
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,280
site completely works.

480
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,000
also including appropriately updated

481
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,400
conservation designations because he

482
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,159
said, "Hey, you're just like the

483
00:21:38,159 --> 00:21:40,240
conservation commission told me or told

484
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,799
I think Monserat, those maps are not

485
00:21:42,799 --> 00:21:43,440
accurate,

486
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:43,760
>> right?

487
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,559
>> You see, your maps are not accurate."

488
00:21:46,559 --> 00:21:51,039
>> So that has to be refined. So one, it's

489
00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:52,880
not going to be a one. It's probably I I

490
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:58,080
would imagine a five to $7500 expense.

491
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,240
So the question there would be

492
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,679
>> there's a limit on using consultants

493
00:22:03,679 --> 00:22:06,559
uh to do studies if it's it used it's

494
00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:14,080
either 10,000 or 30,000 you can contract with a consultant uh by

495
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,000
invite invitation. You don't need to

496
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,159
advertise for everybody in the in the

497
00:22:18,159 --> 00:22:21,360
host state to submit bids. So we if we

498
00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:23,679
have two or three that uh would be

499
00:22:23,679 --> 00:22:25,919
interested if they're under 10,000 I

500
00:22:25,919 --> 00:22:27,679
think this this committee could pick one

501
00:22:27,679 --> 00:22:28,640
of them.

502
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,720
>> That's great Fred. That's great to know.

503
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,600
The question would be source of the

504
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:34,799
funding

505
00:22:34,799 --> 00:22:35,440
>> right

506
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,799
>> if it's five or 7500 or he did not think

507
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:41,200
it would be 10 grand to do this initial

508
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,320
work. But it would seem to me money

509
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,799
prudently spent that could say yes, it

510
00:22:46,799 --> 00:22:49,840
can support 30 units of housing or nope,

511
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,559
it can support 12 and maybe you guys

512
00:22:52,559 --> 00:22:53,840
ought to think about doing something

513
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,480
else relative to the real estate.

514
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:58,320
[clears throat]

515
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,320
>> Uh we

516
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,400
given that it might be as much as 10, we

517
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,080
might want to consider and it's it's

518
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,200
late but probably still doable. uh

519
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,039
putting a capital request for that

520
00:23:09,039 --> 00:23:13,919
rather than out of the operating budget.

521
00:23:13,919 --> 00:23:16,400
Uh let the

522
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,480
>> capital committee

523
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,039
work on that rather than the finance

524
00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:22,240
committee directly.

525
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,120
>> Yep.

526
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:26,960
>> And I I would say it could be for, you

527
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,840
know, a request for 10,000 on the

528
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,360
understanding that it likely won't be

529
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:33,600
10,000.

530
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,440
That that's done all the time.

531
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,200
>> Yeah. Yeah.

532
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,880
>> Well, Jerry, as as the uh board of

533
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,760
health said that they have records on

534
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,799
the uh septic system that's on that

535
00:23:46,799 --> 00:23:48,400
property.

536
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,480
>> Uh he did not say that they they must

537
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,400
have had something at some point in

538
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:55,120
time,

539
00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:55,760
>> right,

540
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,480
>> for the restaurant to approve the

541
00:23:58,480 --> 00:23:59,360
septic,

542
00:23:59,360 --> 00:23:59,679
>> right?

543
00:23:59,679 --> 00:24:01,600
>> But I I don't have any direct knowledge

544
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,120
of that, Fred. Well, they supposedly

545
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:08,559
have records of every septic system in

546
00:24:08,559 --> 00:24:10,720
town on property unless it was built in

547
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,440
1800s, but I don't know what what time

548
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,120
period they started the board of health

549
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:19,440
to to uh to manage that, monitor that.

550
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,520
But I mean, I have it on my property,

551
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,279
the original and then the one that was

552
00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:27,760
redone in 87. Uh there is records of of

553
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,159
maps of what was there, what was

554
00:24:30,159 --> 00:24:33,200
constructed by a certified

555
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,520
contractor, I guess, and approved by

556
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,640
board of health. So I would I would

557
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,799
imagine the board of health has some

558
00:24:40,799 --> 00:24:43,520
record of that or maybe some town agency

559
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,440
or even the building department.

560
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,760
>> Yep. uh would a building inspector would

561
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,679
have some record of what was built there

562
00:24:49,679 --> 00:24:52,720
before or there which is still there

563
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,480
today I would guess because I don't

564
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,240
think any of that has been removed.

565
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,159
>> I don't think it's been removed but it

566
00:24:58,159 --> 00:24:59,840
there's a good chance that whatever is

567
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,159
underground has collapsed.

568
00:25:02,159 --> 00:25:03,679
>> Well

569
00:25:03,679 --> 00:25:06,240
the meet any of course

570
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,039
>> has been unoccupied for 20 years.

571
00:25:09,039 --> 00:25:11,600
>> Yeah. since the fire.

572
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,840
>> We don't know how long before that

573
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,760
>> the septic would have been built. We can

574
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,760
find out.

575
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,320
>> Uh septic tanks last more than 20 years.

576
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,200
So I wouldn't say that that's to ignore

577
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,559
that. But

578
00:25:24,559 --> 00:25:26,159
>> yes, but that's assuming that the septic

579
00:25:26,159 --> 00:25:28,320
tank was put in right before the fire,

580
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,200
not that it was put in 20 years before

581
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:32,080
that.

582
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,000
>> We're making a lot of assumptions that I

583
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,919
think somewhere in town there's some

584
00:25:35,919 --> 00:25:39,360
should be some record of that building.

585
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:41,760
I will check back with Glenn on that to

586
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,559
see at least what were the conditions

587
00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:47,200
identified when the septic was put in

588
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,120
which may give Berkshire Design Group a

589
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:53,679
leg up on this and might help to

590
00:25:53,679 --> 00:25:56,559
minimize some of the cost but I don't

591
00:25:56,559 --> 00:26:00,080
know that a if a well he said that perk

592
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,840
tests are basically permanent unless

593
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,200
there's been a serious modification to

594
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:12,240
the um to the area, the lot in question.

595
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,640
And so that's why it was really good to

596
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,520
figure out the baseline of a septic

597
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,919
system versus an alternative system

598
00:26:19,919 --> 00:26:22,320
because once they approve the baseline

599
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,720
and then approve the alternative, then

600
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,480
you always have the baseline to go back.

601
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,880
So it's an interesting point. I will

602
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,640
call and follow up.

603
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,120
>> Yeah. on on that point,

604
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:37,760
>> I would conjecture that having if plans

605
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,279
for a pre-existing septic system could

606
00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:45,440
be uncovered, that would be useful, not

607
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,440
necessarily because it would provide

608
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,919
data on perk that's relevant today, but

609
00:26:51,919 --> 00:26:54,159
it I would imagine, you know, since

610
00:26:54,159 --> 00:26:56,799
we're not dealing with undeveloped land,

611
00:26:56,799 --> 00:26:58,640
if I were a developer, I'd like to know,

612
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,400
you know, like what's already what

613
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,200
infrastructure structure that is buried

614
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,720
that I may have to, you know, dig up and

615
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,279
replace or or avoid.

616
00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:10,480
>> Yeah. Yeah. Know the septic system

617
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,960
clearly has to get yanked out. Um the

618
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,240
question would be I think if you think

619
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,960
of it as a rectangle,

620
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,600
the septic system is at the back of that

621
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,440
rectangle. That's where it's all

622
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,039
located.

623
00:27:25,039 --> 00:27:29,200
But we might have a need to understand

624
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,440
parking in front of where that septic

625
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,000
system is and on both sides because

626
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,279
that's where you may put your

627
00:27:35,279 --> 00:27:38,000
alternative waste treatment. But that's

628
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,520
also where VHB recommended on both sides

629
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,240
of the center that the septic system go

630
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,880
in. But it may start us off with

631
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,600
something um that Fred O pointed out and

632
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,590
I'll see what I can find out.

633
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:58,480
Um so any so how do how Fred Baron how

634
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,440
do you origin how who how who does how

635
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,279
does one originate a capital committee

636
00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:04,640
request for

637
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,750
>> 10 grand for such a such a thing

638
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,159
» uh

639
00:28:12,159 --> 00:28:14,960
talk let's see I would say talk to P

640
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,399
King I request for capital

641
00:28:18,399 --> 00:28:21,279
projects has already gone out but

642
00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:23,679
>> the committee hasn't met yet and I

643
00:28:23,679 --> 00:28:25,600
assume that

644
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,039
I'm on the committee, Brent's on that

645
00:28:27,039 --> 00:28:30,320
committee, uh would consider a late

646
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,039
proposal and I'm sure there's a town

647
00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:37,760
form for submission and you know for how

648
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,880
much you want for what purpose with

649
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,080
uh some some sort of estimate

650
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,360
>> and you know it can be a ballpark from

651
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,360
Bergkshire Design saying you know not

652
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,559
more than 10,000 something like that.

653
00:28:52,559 --> 00:28:56,320
>> Okay, I'll check with uh Peter uh

654
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,320
tomorrow or the next day.

655
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,480
>> So, what I'll do actually is I've

656
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,000
already started composing an email to

657
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,000
Pete with a C with Jerry's CC. So, I'll

658
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,399
get that email out tonight. But

659
00:29:10,399 --> 00:29:14,880
basically there is a form uh a capital

660
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,480
uh capital request form that various

661
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,840
department and so submit prepare and

662
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,480
submit [snorts] and as Fred pointed out

663
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,080
there is a capital improvement planning

664
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:27,760
committee. I'm on that committee along

665
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,960
with Fred and those people and we

666
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,440
basically prioritize.

667
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,399
We don't approve or deny. We simply

668
00:29:36,399 --> 00:29:40,080
prioritize. And so I can provide some

669
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,640
maybe Jerry you and I could collaborate

670
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,360
on a submission.

671
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,080
Uh you know once we have the form and I

672
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,360
could sort of help advise on like how

673
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,200
does the capital improvement planning

674
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,440
committee historically look at these

675
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,480
things and and prioritize them.

676
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,320
>> Right. And I I ran across that with a

677
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:01,919
finance committee last year as we did

678
00:30:01,919 --> 00:30:03,120
the budgets

679
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:04,720
>> and basically we took everything that

680
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,480
was in immediate need and said, "Okay,

681
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:07,679
that makes sense."

682
00:30:07,679 --> 00:30:07,919
>> Yeah.

683
00:30:07,919 --> 00:30:09,440
>> And everything that wasn't an immediate

684
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,080
need like we'll hold off on that,

685
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:13,120
>> right? That's right.

686
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,080
>> Um but this I think this has some legs

687
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,039
on it at least to answer our question.

688
00:30:19,039 --> 00:30:20,720
Otherwise, you're going to be in stasis

689
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,919
for a long time with not going anywhere

690
00:30:23,919 --> 00:30:26,480
>> pending like trying to find grant money

691
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,559
that could support this.

692
00:30:28,559 --> 00:30:31,200
>> So, let me get to my third discussion

693
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,240
point, which is my conversation with the

694
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,919
head of the Franklin County Regional

695
00:30:35,919 --> 00:30:38,320
Housing Authority, Gina Gioani.

696
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:43,200
>> Um, wait a second. Um, I think either I

697
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,360
missed it or something dropped off here.

698
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,520
Um you said that there were three phases

699
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,600
of planning

700
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,399
um that you got from the Berkshire

701
00:30:52,399 --> 00:30:54,320
design group and the first was perk test

702
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,159
and flood plane mapping and conservation

703
00:30:56,159 --> 00:30:58,799
designations and what are the second and

704
00:30:58,799 --> 00:30:59,600
third?

705
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,600
>> Well you are really tight Monzerat I got

706
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:02,559
to tell you

707
00:31:02,559 --> 00:31:04,320
>> I can't have a one without a two and a

708
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:04,960
three.

709
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,320
>> So the second point was only the second

710
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,760
phase is the check-in point. Once we

711
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,520
give you all the information and you

712
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,360
have a chance to review it, then we

713
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,760
check in with you, see where you want to

714
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,559
go from there. I skipped that in my

715
00:31:20,559 --> 00:31:22,320
overview because I didn't think it was

716
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:23,840
as relevant, but you were absolutely

717
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:24,960
right.

718
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:26,480
>> So, check in with Bergkshire Design

719
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,200
Group and or check in between us and

720
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:30,320
them. Okay.

721
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,240
>> Check in with Bergkshire Design Group

722
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,080
between u the delivery of the phase one

723
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,799
information.

724
00:31:38,799 --> 00:31:40,480
Phase one is compile information. In

725
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,880
Phase two, check into review

726
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,640
information. Phase three is basically

727
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,519
moving to the

728
00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:52,080
sizing of systems, coming up with some

729
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,080
simple charts relative to

730
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,200
what you can build, how you could build

731
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,080
it, etc., etc. They they what they

732
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,720
basically want to do is hybrid the VHP

733
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,519
concept because it has some pieces of a

734
00:32:07,519 --> 00:32:09,279
puzzle

735
00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:11,360
and integrate it with their direct site

736
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:16,240
knowledge and create a bigger piece. But

737
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,559
that's where suddenly your $10,000 bill

738
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:20,640
becomes 50

739
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,159
>> and then you come back with a beautiful

740
00:32:22,159 --> 00:32:24,159
VHB type thing you can hand out to

741
00:32:24,159 --> 00:32:25,840
people. And that's where I think the

742
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,519
developer needs to step in and start

743
00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:30,240
spending money. I think we just need to

744
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:35,279
understand what can we do and then

745
00:32:35,279 --> 00:32:37,760
you hand all that off to a developer. I

746
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,559
don't think the town needs to subsidize

747
00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:43,679
um the design and total layouts.

748
00:32:43,679 --> 00:32:44,399
>> So,

749
00:32:44,399 --> 00:32:47,360
>> no. And I also think it's important to

750
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,440
give the developer something so they're

751
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,919
not, you know, they feel that at least

752
00:32:51,919 --> 00:32:54,799
we've got an investment in this

753
00:32:54,799 --> 00:32:58,159
>> correct the physical real estate. He

754
00:32:58,159 --> 00:33:00,320
thought that would be extreme Chris felt

755
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,320
that would be extremely helpful to your

756
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,240
point Fred that if you come forward say

757
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,360
hey here's what we have and we can show

758
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,200
here's what can perk here's how many

759
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,360
units here's what the town would like to

760
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,080
see in terms of the buildings

761
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,600
then that is a much they can really put

762
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:18,880
their hand a developer can put their

763
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,720
hands around that

764
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,200
>> versus just a we got a 4 acre lot half

765
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,000
of which you can't build on and it

766
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,000
doesn't have septic and What do you guys

767
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,120
think? So, I think I think we're doing

768
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:32,960
the right we're moving it in the right

769
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,240
direction.

770
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,480
>> I have a a concern here or or I mean a

771
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,880
question and it's I hate to be the the

772
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:46,320
ogre of all this. Uh uh I I I think it's

773
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,080
a good effort for this committee to

774
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,640
pursue some kind of housing development

775
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,760
housing project there. But to back up a

776
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,880
little, has has the the town ever

777
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,000
approved what kind of use do we want on

778
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,200
that on that piece of property? Because

779
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:10,639
it's going to come down to uh issuing a request for proposal to get developers

780
00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:14,320
to respond to to make proposals to use

781
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,639
the property. Are we going to say it's

782
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:19,520
only going to be for housing, which this

783
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,079
committee is is promoting and will work

784
00:34:22,079 --> 00:34:24,960
with, or is the RFP going to say it will

785
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,960
be for any kind of development that a

786
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,200
developer wants to put in there, whether

787
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,839
it's housing, it it's retail,

788
00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:37,119
commercial, uh, and and

789
00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:40,800
who is going to decide? Well, who is

790
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,480
going to decide on that? I don't know if

791
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,159
it's this committee is going to decide

792
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:46,159
on that or

793
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:47,839
well I guess the select board will have

794
00:34:47,839 --> 00:34:50,399
the final decision but we also have this

795
00:34:50,399 --> 00:34:54,800
what economic development person that

796
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:56,879
maybe should be involved in all kind in

797
00:34:56,879 --> 00:34:59,040
these meetings and discussions so when

798
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,720
it comes down to getting proposals in

799
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:05,680
that person is familiar with it and can

800
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,520
make presentations

801
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,720
to the select board I think someplace in

802
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:14,400
here. We're moving on a housing project

803
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,760
and I'm not which would be great, but is

804
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,640
that the only thing this town is looking

805
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,560
for? I I I I don't know.

806
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,079
>> Well, it's the only thing we're looking

807
00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:27,520
for. So,

808
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:27,839
>> yeah.

809
00:35:27,839 --> 00:35:29,599
>> Right. But it has to go through the town

810
00:35:29,599 --> 00:35:31,440
or through the select board to to get

811
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,800
final approval.

812
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,359
Well, ultimately the land the land is

813
00:35:37,359 --> 00:35:39,200
owned by the town, right?

814
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:40,320
>> Meaning

815
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,720
>> citizens of the town would ultimately

816
00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:46,560
have to vote to approve a sale or

817
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,240
transfer for for that purpose. All we

818
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:53,119
think this committee is trying to do is

819
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:56,560
make progress towards

820
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:01,119
um you know having a reasonable proposal

821
00:36:01,119 --> 00:36:04,240
either determining that the you can't do

822
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:06,320
anything reasonable in terms of housing

823
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,800
on this property and we just say you

824
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,200
know the town should just sell it

825
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,359
>> or do something else with it. But you

826
00:36:13,359 --> 00:36:16,720
know right now we have this committee is

827
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:20,000
trying to develop a get as close to a

828
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,400
proposal for building housing not

829
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:23,760
anything else

830
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,359
>> not a you know not a a professional

831
00:36:27,359 --> 00:36:31,119
building not you know that that is what

832
00:36:31,119 --> 00:36:34,000
we are trying to do and until we

833
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,880
determine that there's nothing useful

834
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,280
that can be done like if if these

835
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,640
evaluations say doesn't perk or

836
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,119
something's something's wrong with it

837
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:47,680
and we can't do any reasonable housing,

838
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,040
then we might abandon this particular

839
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,200
parcel of land and turn our attention

840
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,119
elsewhere.

841
00:36:55,119 --> 00:36:57,119
That that's at least my opinion of what

842
00:36:57,119 --> 00:36:58,960
we're trying to do. Jerry, does that

843
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,480
sound?

844
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,599
My thought would be you need to

845
00:37:03,599 --> 00:37:06,880
understand what the land can handle in

846
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,440
terms of septic absorption whether it's

847
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,560
commercial, if it's a restaurant, or

848
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,480
it's housing. If you don't have the

849
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,520
answer to that part of the test,

850
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,720
then you you don't have anything but

851
00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:24,240
land sitting there. And so it may be

852
00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:28,079
that it's only perking enough for light

853
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:30,880
retail commercial.

854
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,440
>> It may be it can perk enough to create

855
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,599
housing, which would be very interesting

856
00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:39,359
to this committee and potentially to the

857
00:37:39,359 --> 00:37:43,680
town. And it may be it perks for

858
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,680
industrial. But until we know the soil

859
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,280
condition as the first step, regardless

860
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,200
of what's going to be done with the real

861
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,480
estate above the ground, it's hard to

862
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,240
have that conversation. I I I hear your

863
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:03,200
point, but I I really I think it's in

864
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,839
the best interest of the town to move

865
00:38:05,839 --> 00:38:08,079
forward and understand

866
00:38:08,079 --> 00:38:12,720
the perk capacity of the real estate in

867
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:15,040
order to determine what potential uses

868
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:16,800
there might be.

869
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,119
But when the the the other study that

870
00:38:19,119 --> 00:38:21,440
was done on housing that what's a VHB

871
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,760
study didn't they didn't look at any of

872
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,839
this at all and yet they came up with

873
00:38:25,839 --> 00:38:29,599
proposals that I I I guess the the town

874
00:38:29,599 --> 00:38:31,680
accepted. I I guess uh

875
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,920
>> the town did not accept them. I think

876
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,880
that's too that I think that what

877
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,680
happened with the VHB study is it was

878
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,480
solicited. It was provided and then it

879
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,200
was basically given over to this

880
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,680
committee to do something with. But by

881
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,520
that time this committee had fallen

882
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,359
apart and there was nobody to champion

883
00:38:53,359 --> 00:38:55,839
doing anything with that property and

884
00:38:55,839 --> 00:38:58,000
now we're reconstituted and we are

885
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,599
trying to do something.

886
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:00,720
>> Okay. Well,

887
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:03,599
>> and also the at least it was my view

888
00:39:03,599 --> 00:39:05,920
that that was

889
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,079
as Jerry pointed out was you know when

890
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:11,520
showing it to Bergkshire sort of

891
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,240
aspirational of what might be done with

892
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:16,960
the property. It wasn't a plan

893
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,400
>> of what what will be done you know here

894
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,000
are your alternatives for what you can

895
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,880
do. It's simply maybe you could do these

896
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,720
things and

897
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:28,560
>> which doesn't sound like the best use of

898
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,160
funds relative to not knowing the

899
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,960
answer. The here's what you can do and

900
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,680
then moving from there.

901
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,160
>> I believe that that didn't cost the town

902
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,000
nothing. It was either a grant or

903
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,359
a an academic

904
00:39:45,359 --> 00:39:46,240
>> study.

905
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:48,880
>> Well, that's good. It it was there was

906
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,440
no I don't remember ever allocating any

907
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:52,800
funds for that.

908
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:53,440
>> Wonderful.

909
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,520
>> Yeah. I think it was a student thing.

910
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,520
>> Yeah.

911
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,000
>> And the other thing, Jerry, I mean,

912
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,000
Brent, you mentioned a word that caught

913
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,320
my caught my attention whether the town

914
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,480
is going to sell this property. I think

915
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,920
that's uh any kind of development that's

916
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,680
going to occur there to me has to be

917
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,280
development that owns the property

918
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,119
because I've been told with town

919
00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:23,119
administrator other people the town is

920
00:40:23,119 --> 00:40:24,720
not going to be a landlord to that

921
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:27,520
property regardless of what goes on that

922
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,400
property right so the RFP would would be

923
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:31,760
for the sale

924
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,160
>> of the uh or own whatever you call it

925
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,480
sale of the property for a certain kind

926
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,320
of development or proposal.

927
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:39,920
>> It could be it could be managed just

928
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,599
like our other property next to the post

929
00:40:41,599 --> 00:40:42,320
office.

930
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,000
>> Well, I don't think the town is in a

931
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,320
position to do that. I've been told

932
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,240
we're not going to be landlords to it.

933
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:50,160
We're not. No, the post the one by the

934
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:54,720
post office. The town has is has uh an

935
00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:56,480
agreement with Franklin County Housing

936
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,560
Authority to manage that property. The

937
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,119
town does not. We have an we have a a

938
00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:03,200
>> an agreement to do it, but but they're

939
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,119
responsible for managing it completely.

940
00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:07,280
the town doesn't get any money from

941
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:07,680
that.

942
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,960
>> Well, the h how it's managed, it becomes

943
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,119
a legal issue. The the property can be

944
00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:16,800
sold. There can be a uh a land lease

945
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,200
with the payment in lie of taxes or

946
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,440
something like that. There are other

947
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,599
there there are ways to work that issue

948
00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:27,359
out that likely it would be a sale,

949
00:41:27,359 --> 00:41:27,839
>> right?

950
00:41:27,839 --> 00:41:33,440
>> But there could be other other options,

951
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,480
>> right? In the interest of my time, may I

952
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,000
go on to the conversation with the

953
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:39,200
housing authority?

954
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,400
>> Yes, please.

955
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,160
>> Great.

956
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,960
So, as I mentioned, uh, the housing

957
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,359
authority is interlaced with RDI. They

958
00:41:47,359 --> 00:41:51,119
built a 100 units to date since 1990.

959
00:41:51,119 --> 00:41:53,520
They're primarily focused on blighted

960
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,960
homes over the last five or so years.

961
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,480
But she was very excited about the

962
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,440
concept of multifamily. here. It turns

963
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,520
out they are the developers behind

964
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,680
Sanderson Place.

965
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,560
She said that was a um very much a joint

966
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,640
effort with multiple architects who live

967
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,280
in the zone to design the building. They

968
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:18,400
went through a lot of comprehensive

969
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,119
permit issues with the town. That town

970
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:25,200
that's on 3.5 acres of buildable land, a

971
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,680
total of 33 units. She said for them 30

972
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,800
units is really the sweet spot to have a

973
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,400
developer engaged. Um she said they are

974
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,280
able to sort of fly under the radar of

975
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,359
the bigger Boston companies including

976
00:42:41,359 --> 00:42:44,720
the one that I work for because

977
00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:46,400
companies like my company they are in

978
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,480
the 100 units and up category. But she

979
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:55,520
has access to capital. she has access to

980
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,839
resources that are beyond what we can

981
00:42:57,839 --> 00:43:01,920
do. Um, she did mention,

982
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,720
we talked about the lottery

983
00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:07,200
itself. I I think there'd be an interest

984
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,280
there in administering the lottery. You

985
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,440
said typically it would probably be in

986
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,359
the tens of people, not hundreds of

987
00:43:13,359 --> 00:43:16,160
people per unit for a lottery for local

988
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,079
interest.

989
00:43:18,079 --> 00:43:23,040
Interestingly to me, she said only 30%

990
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,920
of the units, excluding anything that's

991
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,800
section 8, can have a local preference.

992
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,400
70% of the product is anybody shows up

993
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,920
and there you go. So, we can't say out

994
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:39,839
of the affordable units, if there's 10

995
00:43:39,839 --> 00:43:42,720
of them, all 10 of them have to have a

996
00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:45,359
local preference unless they have

997
00:43:45,359 --> 00:43:48,640
section 8 inside of it. Section 8 is a

998
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,680
whole different level, but it's

999
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,160
something that can be considered. She

1000
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,440
likes the idea of workforce housing. She

1001
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,119
said, "What you really need is a good

1002
00:43:59,119 --> 00:44:01,680
market study, and it's very possible

1003
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:06,400
because of its proximity to Northampton,

1004
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,359
even somewhat to Amherst, um, from a

1005
00:44:09,359 --> 00:44:11,680
commuting perspective, that you might be

1006
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,480
able to get some decent rents there."

1007
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,040
She said that they actually

1008
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:18,800
had worked quite heavily with the Beacon

1009
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,599
Company over at the Mill District uh

1010
00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:25,680
apartments over by Cow's Lumber and 85%

1011
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,520
of those units are filled with what are

1012
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,480
called mobile vouchers, not projectbased

1013
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,520
section 8 where there are one mode.

1014
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,000
>> Sorry, I don't know why that that

1015
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:37,280
clicked something.

1016
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:37,680
>> Anyway,

1017
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,920
>> what would the market study determine?

1018
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,720
The market study would determine if you

1019
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:44,800
have apartments here, what could you get

1020
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:49,599
for rents relative to the market end of

1021
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:55,119
the rents? Is it a twobedroom for $2,000

1022
00:44:55,119 --> 00:44:57,920
or like over at the mill building u the

1023
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:02,079
mill district, they're getting $3,500

1024
00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:05,760
um for the units. the affordable rents

1025
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,480
are going to be fixed based on area

1026
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,599
median income, but they're still pretty

1027
00:45:11,599 --> 00:45:16,720
strong. And so a developer like RDI

1028
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:19,520
once they understand how much they can

1029
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,000
build, if they can build 30 units, would

1030
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,880
then work to pencil in the right

1031
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,240
mix of units that make sense to them for

1032
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:32,079
the type of construction, the

1033
00:45:32,079 --> 00:45:33,839
construction cost, and their long-term

1034
00:45:33,839 --> 00:45:35,760
hold plan.

1035
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,800
So if we can get it to 30, she's totally

1036
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,839
in. If this thing can only perk at 15,

1037
00:45:41,839 --> 00:45:44,960
then she's like, I I can't help you.

1038
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:48,160
However, back to the point of money and

1039
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,640
not to say let's not put in that capital

1040
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,359
committee request because I've not been

1041
00:45:53,359 --> 00:45:57,680
able to chase this particular hunt yet,

1042
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,240
but she said under the Affordable Homes

1043
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:04,400
Act was passed a couple of years ago.

1044
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,839
There's a state agency called and I

1045
00:46:07,839 --> 00:46:10,319
don't know the total names behind the

1046
00:46:10,319 --> 00:46:18,880
acronym but D as in dog C A M as in Mary but basically the division

1047
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,160
of capital asset management something.

1048
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,400
She didn't know what the other M was,

1049
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,520
but I have a name. And she said they

1050
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:32,160
help with what she called TA, technical

1051
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,040
assistance to towns interested in

1052
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,400
developing residential housing. And she

1053
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,560
thinks that they could help cover the

1054
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,960
cost of that whole perk test situation

1055
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,359
we're talking about. So, I'll go down

1056
00:46:47,359 --> 00:46:49,119
that route, but I think we should stay

1057
00:46:49,119 --> 00:46:52,079
on the other as well because this is

1058
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:54,720
information based on a seminar that she

1059
00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:58,240
went to a year or two ago. Who knows if

1060
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:01,200
there's still funds available, etc. But

1061
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:05,040
I have a name, I have part of a state

1062
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,520
agency division that and it would be

1063
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,280
great if there is a grant available to

1064
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,839
us and it could be provided on a timely

1065
00:47:11,839 --> 00:47:14,240
basis. Maybe the grant could be one that

1066
00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:16,560
would reimburse

1067
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,920
the capital fund once it came through. I

1068
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:21,920
don't know. So, something to think

1069
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:22,480
about.

1070
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,960
>> Jerry, tracking things like that down is

1071
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:26,800
exactly where we've got a community

1072
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:28,800
development administrator.

1073
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,480
>> Yep.

1074
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,720
>> That would be right up her alley.

1075
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:34,240
>> Good. Is that somebody I can connect

1076
00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:34,960
with?

1077
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,599
>> Absolutely. Uh

1078
00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:40,160
Katherine,

1079
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:41,760
I believe, is she just started a few

1080
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,359
weeks ago.

1081
00:47:43,359 --> 00:47:46,240
Caroline Caroline G

1082
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:50,870
>> Caroline Gurk

1083
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,560
» and the the two M's are um

1084
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,040
the last one is maintenance

1085
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:58,800
>> management and maintenance.

1086
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:00,480
>> Good job. Thank you.

1087
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,640
>> I just Googled it.

1088
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,950
>> All right. So, it's legit.

1089
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,280
» Yeah. I've actually dealt with them um

1090
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:10,960
because I work at Greenfield Community

1091
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,119
College and and they are involved with

1092
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:15,920
any renovations we do on a a building

1093
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:17,119
used by the state.

1094
00:48:17,119 --> 00:48:18,880
>> Oh, great. Are you familiar with this

1095
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,280
Abby Vlad deck?

1096
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:22,960
>> No.

1097
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:23,760
>> Okay.

1098
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,359
>> We haven't done any renovations in a

1099
00:48:25,359 --> 00:48:26,880
while.

1100
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:28,960
>> All right. Well, I'll reach out to

1101
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:33,119
Caroline Gurich at the town

1102
00:48:33,119 --> 00:48:35,440
and also see what I can find relative to

1103
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,319
connecting to Abby.

1104
00:48:38,319 --> 00:48:40,960
>> What fun.

1105
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,920
>> And when we when we interviewed

1106
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,160
Caroline, she seemed very enthusiastic

1107
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,280
about doing housing related work.

1108
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,359
>> Great. Thank you so much. I look forward

1109
00:48:51,359 --> 00:48:54,400
to introducing myself.

1110
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,280
Um, and so that's so Gina's totally on

1111
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,280
board. So I think we've got a number of

1112
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,559
people between her and

1113
00:49:02,559 --> 00:49:03,760
uh the board of health seems like

1114
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:05,839
they're in a pretty good spot once they

1115
00:49:05,839 --> 00:49:08,880
get answers to the test. We know how can

1116
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,359
help us take the test.

1117
00:49:11,359 --> 00:49:14,480
Um, so we I think we're in a moving in

1118
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,240
the right direction.

1119
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:18,559
I I also think that it in putting in a

1120
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:22,800
capital request or also the additional

1121
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,920
annual funding, it will help publicize

1122
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:27,680
the committee and what we're trying to

1123
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:28,559
do.

1124
00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:29,359
>> Yeah.

1125
00:49:29,359 --> 00:49:32,400
>> With this that, you know, something's

1126
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,640
happening and I think that, you know,

1127
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:38,960
it'll be good to show to the the town in

1128
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,640
general that there can be movement here.

1129
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,960
>> Good.

1130
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,319
Okay. So then back to that budget. Um it

1131
00:49:48,319 --> 00:49:51,599
doesn't seem like it would go over too

1132
00:49:51,599 --> 00:49:55,040
well or be likely to get approved for

1133
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,559
our committee to go from an annual

1134
00:49:58,559 --> 00:50:01,440
request on the order of $500 to an

1135
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,079
annual request on the order of $5,000 or

1136
00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:06,240
$10,000. I mean just look at the

1137
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:08,000
percentage budget increase

1138
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,240
year-over-year. And boy, that would

1139
00:50:10,240 --> 00:50:13,040
without a real clear plan for what we're

1140
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,280
going to spend those monies on. I think

1141
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,880
the capital improvement request could be

1142
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:20,800
shaped um

1143
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,359
>> and this and this is a oneshot thing. So

1144
00:50:23,359 --> 00:50:26,079
should be a capital project anyway. This

1145
00:50:26,079 --> 00:50:27,920
is not should not be in the operating

1146
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:28,720
budget.

1147
00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:32,160
>> Yeah. So, I mean, unless we could

1148
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,200
brainstorm some, you know, again, I

1149
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:36,960
mean, we've talked about postage, we've

1150
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,440
talked about training, you know, I'm

1151
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:44,960
happy to throw in $1,000 or $1,500 as a

1152
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,920
budget for 2027

1153
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,559
more or less to say we're, you know,

1154
00:50:50,559 --> 00:50:53,040
we're much more active now. We're

1155
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,040
focused on this particular parcel of

1156
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,680
land. We feel like we're we might need

1157
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:01,839
to, you know, get some tests done that

1158
00:51:01,839 --> 00:51:04,160
may not necessarily be capital improve.

1159
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:05,280
I don't, you know, I'd have to figure

1160
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:06,480
out how to

1161
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,720
>> when I threw out the number, it was I

1162
00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:12,400
was not aware of the cost of the test. I

1163
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,400
thought it would might be lower.

1164
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:14,960
>> Yeah.

1165
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,200
>> Should be a capital request. Therefore,

1166
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,480
there's really no need to have a bigger

1167
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,240
ask for the uh operating budget. So

1168
00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:26,720
stick with 500.

1169
00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:27,520
>> Yeah. I I don't

1170
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:29,200
>> I would I would think so.

1171
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:30,240
>> Yeah.

1172
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:32,000
And the the operating budget's

1173
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:36,480
going to get whacked by healthcare and

1174
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,760
potentially senior center. So and then

1175
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:40,960
obviously whatever happens with the

1176
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:41,599
schools.

1177
00:51:41,599 --> 00:51:44,720
>> Oh, the budget's going to get whack. I

1178
00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:47,359
already know we're gonna have a big hit

1179
00:51:47,359 --> 00:51:48,640
with the schools,

1180
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,720
>> right? Exactly. I've already got gotten

1181
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:53,119
that information

1182
00:51:53,119 --> 00:51:56,950
>> as you know preliminarily.

1183
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:58,079
» Yeah. So,

1184
00:51:58,079 --> 00:52:00,079
>> but there's never a good year to ask for

1185
00:52:00,079 --> 00:52:02,079
an increase in any case.

1186
00:52:02,079 --> 00:52:03,760
>> Wow.

1187
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:05,359
>> It's always something.

1188
00:52:05,359 --> 00:52:08,640
>> Yep. Agreed.

1189
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:10,960
>> All right. So, I'll take that as

1190
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,680
consensus. I don't know that we need a

1191
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:17,520
vote. um that I'll submit five uh just

1192
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,960
another $500 for FY27

1193
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,119
and we'll expect to do other things

1194
00:52:23,119 --> 00:52:27,280
using you know grants and capital uh

1195
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,231
capital requests.

1196
00:52:31,241 --> 00:52:32,400
[snorts]

1197
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,160
All right,

1198
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,839
so it is 6:55 p.m. Are there any other

1199
00:52:37,839 --> 00:52:41,280
topics that nobody anticipated within

1200
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,400
the last 48 hours? Can I give a quick

1201
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:48,480
update on the CPC plan

1202
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,160
um edit?

1203
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:51,920
>> You very well may.

1204
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:53,280
>> Okay. So, you might remember this has

1205
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,800
been kind of a long process. Um but

1206
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:01,119
Jerry is uh watching the results of the

1207
00:53:01,119 --> 00:53:03,200
American Community Survey. And it turns

1208
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,319
out that they um do one survey every

1209
00:53:06,319 --> 00:53:08,400
year and another one every five years.

1210
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,160
And we feel like the five-year survey

1211
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:11,359
would have information that would be

1212
00:53:11,359 --> 00:53:14,319
more valuable to us, more useful in this

1213
00:53:14,319 --> 00:53:16,800
context. And that comes out this month.

1214
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,520
And so we are going to do our editing

1215
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:21,040
after that comes out this month. And

1216
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:22,400
then we will bring it to you at the

1217
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:24,800
February meeting um for you to approve

1218
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,760
before we submit it to the CPA. Is this

1219
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:29,599
Yeah, the CPC.

1220
00:53:29,599 --> 00:53:33,359
>> And um I proposed that plan to the CPC

1221
00:53:33,359 --> 00:53:35,359
and they were fine with it.

1222
00:53:35,359 --> 00:53:39,359
>> Excellent. Okay. Thanks for that update.

1223
00:53:39,359 --> 00:53:41,920
>> Well, for for that survey for then the

1224
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,160
results of that, is there a cost to the

1225
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:45,440
town for that?

1226
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,240
>> No, if you just look it up online.

1227
00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:48,880
>> Okay.

1228
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,119
>> It's basically a very large datab bank,

1229
00:53:51,119 --> 00:53:54,079
Fred, um, with a variety of filters that

1230
00:53:54,079 --> 00:53:56,960
one could use. You could drive yourself

1231
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:58,720
crazy with statistics,

1232
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:00,480
>> but there are a number of preset

1233
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,760
parameters, which is where I assume the

1234
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,280
stats from the last update were drawn.

1235
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,119
So, we'll hopefully be able to go find

1236
00:54:09,119 --> 00:54:10,480
those, maybe put them in a different

1237
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,079
order to clarify a bit more. So, I I

1238
00:54:14,079 --> 00:54:17,440
think we'll be okay.

1239
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,720
Unless somebody wants to massage the US

1240
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:23,359
government's 5-year history of data

1241
00:54:23,359 --> 00:54:27,760
statistics on Franklin County

1242
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:31,670
by the end of February.

1243
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:35,040
» Okay. All right. Well, another good

1244
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,720
meeting all. Um, unless there's anything

1245
00:54:38,720 --> 00:54:41,599
else, perhaps somebody would consider

1246
00:54:41,599 --> 00:54:43,200
moving to ajourn

1247
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,079
>> next to clarify next meeting.

1248
00:54:46,079 --> 00:54:48,240
>> Well, we should always do that, should

1249
00:54:48,240 --> 00:54:51,520
All right, looking at the calendar.

1250
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:53,599
So,

1251
00:54:53,599 --> 00:54:55,839
um,

1252
00:54:55,839 --> 00:55:00,470
so,

1253
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:05,440
uh, we agreed that we would not meet on

1254
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,839
our regular schedule because I'll be out

1255
00:55:07,839 --> 00:55:11,920
of the country on So, we agreed we would

1256
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,559
not meet on our regular schedule, which

1257
00:55:14,559 --> 00:55:18,319
would have been Monday, February 9th.

1258
00:55:18,319 --> 00:55:19,839
Instead,

1259
00:55:19,839 --> 00:55:24,079
my calendar reflects that we agreed to a

1260
00:55:24,079 --> 00:55:27,200
ad hoc meeting

1261
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:32,079
on Tuesday, February 17th at 3:00 in the

1262
00:55:32,079 --> 00:55:34,240
afternoon.

1263
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:35,280
>> Did we?

1264
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,599
>> I don't see that. But

1265
00:55:37,599 --> 00:55:38,720
>> I don't think I would have agreed to

1266
00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:40,240
3:00 in the afternoon.

1267
00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:41,760
>> I And I wasn't here for the last

1268
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:42,480
meeting, so I

1269
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:47,760
>> Okay. Um, so, um, I could do a meeting

1270
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:51,359
on Tuesday the 17th. I don't know. Let

1271
00:55:51,359 --> 00:55:53,680
me look at the town calendar to see what

1272
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:55,839
else is going on in February.

1273
00:55:55,839 --> 00:55:58,319
>> Actually, I've I'm showing a Tuesday the

1274
00:55:58,319 --> 00:56:01,359
17th meeting

1275
00:56:01,359 --> 00:56:02,559
as

1276
00:56:02,559 --> 00:56:04,160
>> Yeah, I have it down for Tuesday the

1277
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:05,680
17th at 6 also.

1278
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:07,040
>> Yeah.

1279
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,079
>> Oh, interesting. Maybe I dropped it on

1280
00:56:10,079 --> 00:56:14,720
my calendar three hours too early.

1281
00:56:14,720 --> 00:56:17,119
Does 6 PM work for you on the 17th?

1282
00:56:17,119 --> 00:56:20,559
>> It does. It does. It's not in the town

1283
00:56:20,559 --> 00:56:22,559
calendar yet,

1284
00:56:22,559 --> 00:56:25,040
>> but I see nothing else on the town

1285
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,319
calendar for February 17th.

1286
00:56:28,319 --> 00:56:31,119
>> Yeah, I think we also did March in the

1287
00:56:31,119 --> 00:56:32,720
last meeting.

1288
00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:34,559
>> Yeah, March 9th,

1289
00:56:34,559 --> 00:56:35,599
>> right?

1290
00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:37,200
>> Yeah. And that one will also be the

1291
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,119
housing trust.

1292
00:56:39,119 --> 00:56:40,960
>> Okay.

1293
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:42,720
>> All right. But I I think this confusion

1294
00:56:42,720 --> 00:56:44,480
is why we should clarify this at every

1295
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,400
meeting when the next meeting.

1296
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,720
>> Yeah. Thanks for bringing it up, Fred.

1297
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:50,640
>> Yeah, I do have the housing committee

1298
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:55,599
and housing trust at 6:00 pm on Monday,

1299
00:56:55,599 --> 00:56:57,040
March 9th.

1300
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:58,480
>> Yeah, me too.

1301
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,440
>> Okay. All right. So,

1302
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:02,960
>> okay. Now, I move that we adjourn.

1303
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:07,200
>> Just one quick note for Jerry. If you're

1304
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:09,200
talking to anyone like Berkshire or

1305
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:13,200
someone else or uh the de RDI the

1306
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:19,839
developer, we do have funds through CPC

1307
00:57:19,839 --> 00:57:22,880
and through the housing trust that might

1308
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:26,640
be able to subsidize work in the you

1309
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:28,799
know in the world of housing.

1310
00:57:28,799 --> 00:57:30,559
>> Got it.

1311
00:57:30,559 --> 00:57:32,640
So, if

1312
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,599
uh RDI says, you know, we can't do under

1313
00:57:35,599 --> 00:57:41,119
30, well, if we can kick in 100,000,

1314
00:57:41,119 --> 00:57:44,799
150,000, can they take it down to the 24

1315
00:57:44,799 --> 00:57:47,599
max or whatever, you know, would would

1316
00:57:47,599 --> 00:57:50,079
that help?

1317
00:57:50,079 --> 00:57:50,799
>> Excellent.

1318
00:57:50,799 --> 00:57:53,040
>> Because something like that is why that

1319
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:54,480
money is there.

1320
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:54,880
>> Yeah.

1321
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:56,799
>> As long as it's for affordable housing.

1322
00:57:56,799 --> 00:57:58,799
>> So, we'd close the capital stack for

1323
00:57:58,799 --> 00:58:00,160
them.

1324
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:03,520
So, let's just I I just advise going

1325
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,319
back to the agreement

1326
00:58:06,319 --> 00:58:09,119
>> with the CPC on the use of those funds

1327
00:58:09,119 --> 00:58:11,359
because there are restrictions. Yeah.

1328
00:58:11,359 --> 00:58:13,440
>> Maybe what Fred is describing fits

1329
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,119
within what how we're allowed to use

1330
00:58:15,119 --> 00:58:18,240
those funds, but I wouldn't

1331
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,000
I was a little unsure that

1332
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:22,000
>> I I I think it's more in terms of

1333
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:23,839
construction than

1334
00:58:23,839 --> 00:58:27,680
>> Yeah. uh planning and

1335
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:30,079
>> I I don't know that it would work that

1336
00:58:30,079 --> 00:58:32,480
those funds would be available for perk

1337
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:33,839
tests for instance

1338
00:58:33,839 --> 00:58:34,480
>> right

1339
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,839
>> but might but if in con you know we work

1340
00:58:37,839 --> 00:58:41,119
a like I'm sure they did with Sanderson

1341
00:58:41,119 --> 00:58:43,040
place you know work something between

1342
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:47,680
the town and the developer

1343
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:49,920
to be able to bring those funds some

1344
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:51,520
funds to bear

1345
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,000
>> so that could be very attractive

1346
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:55,760
That's why I brought it up.

1347
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:57,920
>> Yep. That plus the fact that you own

1348
00:58:57,920 --> 00:58:59,200
this land,

1349
00:58:59,200 --> 00:58:59,839
>> right?

1350
00:58:59,839 --> 00:59:02,000
>> So, I think you had the combination of

1351
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,240
those two relative to the overall

1352
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:05,760
capital stack that the developer is

1353
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:07,359
going to look at and say, "How am I

1354
00:59:07,359 --> 00:59:09,599
going to pay for this once I know the

1355
00:59:09,599 --> 00:59:10,880
costs?"

1356
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:12,640
>> Right. And and as Brent said, we'll have

1357
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:15,280
to check to make sure that

1358
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:17,359
the money is spent within the parameters

1359
00:59:17,359 --> 00:59:20,960
of CPC and housing trust.

1360
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:24,960
>> Yeah. uh guidelines, but

1361
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,520
we can probably, you know, we may need

1362
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:29,440
to have a lawyer to do that, but we'll

1363
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:30,559
figure that out.

1364
00:59:30,559 --> 00:59:32,160
>> Where there's a will, there's a way,

1365
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:32,960
>> right?

1366
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:34,240
>> It sounds like there would be a lot of

1367
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,000
cooperation through many departments and

1368
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:37,760
even outside agencies.

1369
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,160
>> That that's how these things get done is

1370
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,880
you get cooperation across the board.

1371
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:47,200
And I'll just still note that a 30 unit

1372
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,440
um

1373
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:52,000
structure is not would not be approved

1374
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:55,119
within current weightly zoning. So that

1375
00:59:55,119 --> 00:59:57,200
would need to be addressed probably

1376
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:00,079
through a friendly 40B.

1377
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:03,760
>> Yeah. Well, we've got 40B is there. It's

1378
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:09,440
a question of whether a you a 30 unit

1379
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,960
uh complex would pass muster with the

1380
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,920
community, you know, how it would look

1381
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:18,559
and all that, but that that's down the

1382
01:00:18,559 --> 01:00:18,960
road.

1383
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:20,480
>> Yep. Yep.

1384
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,480
>> Let's figure out what we can actually

1385
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,520
what the project the land can support

1386
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:27,040
for construction. I think that's the

1387
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:27,599
first step.

1388
01:00:27,599 --> 01:00:29,440
>> That that is the absolute first thing is

1389
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:31,520
what's the max that it can support,

1390
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:33,359
>> right? Okay.

1391
01:00:33,359 --> 01:00:35,920
Good. Very helpful conversation.

1392
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:39,040
>> Okay. Now I I move that we adjourn.

1393
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:40,640
>> Okay. Second.

1394
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:42,880
>> All right. Motion made and seconded.

1395
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:44,720
>> Who in favor?

1396
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,680
>> That uh that was Jerry's

1397
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:49,920
>> exhausted and needs to move on. Thank

1398
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:51,920
you for all your hard work on this Jerry

1399
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:53,040
in the in the last

1400
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:54,240
>> Thank you, Jerry.

1401
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:56,160
>> Yep. No, it's all a team effort. You

1402
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:57,520
guys are good sounding boards. Thank

1403
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:58,079
you.

1404
01:00:58,079 --> 01:01:01,520
>> You know, so um Okay. All in favor? You

1405
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:03,440
can just like raise your hand. I can

1406
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:06,319
just sort of see the I think and Fred

1407
01:01:06,319 --> 01:01:09,599
doesn't vote. So we are adjourned at

1408
01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:14,000
7:04 p.m. until our next meeting in

1409
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,000
February. All right. Good night all.

1410
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:17,200
Thank you everybody.

1411
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:21,160
>> Thank you. Bye bye.