[0:08] 12 meeting to order for Wcomaku County
[0:09] Council Legislative Session 2026-9
[0:12] for September 15, 2026.
[0:15] This time we will have a moment of
[0:18] silence. If you could uh see
[0:37] » Thank you. Those you'd like to stand and
[0:38] join us in the pledge of allegiance,
[0:40] please do.
[0:43] I pledge algiance to the flag of the
[0:45] United States of America and to the
[0:48] republic for it stands one nation under
[0:52] God indivisible with liberty and justice
[0:55] for all
[1:00] » entertain a motion from uh council to
[1:02] approve the consent agenda
[1:04] second any discussion or corrections
[1:08] seeing none all those in favor say I
[1:10] >> post motion carry consent agenda passes
[1:13] unanimously. This time we have a
[1:15] proclamation to recognize the month of
[1:16] October as suicide prevention month. We
[1:19] have representatives
[1:20] from the Life Crisis Center. Uh
[1:22] Councilman Josh Hastings is going to
[1:24] read the proclamation. Is everyone here?
[1:27] Are they are they here today? We're
[1:28] looking for an Emily Miller or a Carly
[1:31] Rue.
[1:35] » Maybe they're just running late.
[1:37] >> Yep. Josh, if you'd like to go ahead,
[1:39] we'll just go ahead and read it aloud
[1:41] for them.
[1:44] Yep, we're good.
[1:48] Can see everybody today.
[1:50] [clears throat] This is a proclamation
[1:51] for National Suicide Prevention Month,
[1:54] whereas suicide remains the 10th leading
[1:57] cause of death in the United States and
[1:59] the second leading cause of death among
[2:01] individuals between ages 10 to 34.
[2:04] Whereas over 90% of people who die by
[2:07] suicide have a diagnosible and treatable
[2:09] mental health condition, although often
[2:11] that condition is not recognized or
[2:13] treated. And whereas organizations such
[2:16] as the American Foundation for Suicide
[2:18] Prevention, are dedicated to saving
[2:20] lives [clears throat] and bringing hope
[2:22] to those who are affected by suicide
[2:24] through education, advocacy, and
[2:26] resources for those who have lost
[2:27] someone to suicide or who struggle. And
[2:30] whereas the American Foundation for
[2:32] Suicide Prevention urges that we
[2:34] recognize suicide as a preventable
[2:36] public health problem, address
[2:38] disparities in access to mental health
[2:40] care, promote awareness that suicide
[2:42] most often occurs when stressors exceed
[2:44] someone's coping abilities, and
[2:46] implement strategies to improve access
[2:49] to quality mental health, substance
[2:51] abuse, and suicide prevention services
[2:53] and programs. Now therefore, the
[2:55] Wakamaku County Council hereby
[2:56] designates September as National Suicide
[2:59] Prevention Month in Wakamaku County,
[3:01] done this 15th day of September, 2026,
[3:03] signed by the entire Wakamaku County
[3:05] Council.
[3:15] » That's them. Yeah, that's them right
[3:18] there.
[3:19] >> I don't have my glasses on, so I can't
[3:21] see if folks here for suicide
[3:22] prevention.
[3:23] Yeah,
[3:24] >> I just read it out. Uh, you're welcome.
[3:26] Come on up here. Yeah. No, I got
[3:29] [clears throat]
[3:30] >> fine. Maybe you
[3:31] >> I'm not that wicked.
[3:35] >> We just uh just recognized it and I just
[3:37] read through the proclamation. Um, I
[3:40] want if if anyone wants to make some
[3:42] comments u and then we can maybe take a
[3:43] picture.
[3:45] >> Oh, okay. Yeah, sure.
[3:47] >> First of all, I just want to thank you
[3:49] all for this. It's very important. um
[3:51] National Suicide Prevention Month. Um I
[3:53] feel like suicide has affected a lot of
[3:56] people and I just thank you for bringing
[3:57] this to um everyone's attention. It's a very important thing we talk
[4:01] about and um just shows how important
[4:04] our work is. So thank you all so much.
[4:09] [applause]
[4:13] » Yeah.
[4:27] » [clears throat]
[4:28] >> Thank you so much.
[4:29] >> Thank you very much.
[4:32] >> Thank you.
[4:39] » Good morning, Mr. Benson.
[4:40] >> Morning, Mr. President, County Council.
[4:42] Um, we're here on for a
[4:46] public hearing on legislative bill
[4:48] emergency legislative bill number
[4:49] 2026-11.
[4:51] It's an emergency act to add chapter 49
[4:53] to the Wakamo County code titled nursing
[4:56] home to establish rules and regulations
[4:58] on the operation of the Wakamo County
[5:00] nursing home, the appointment of an
[5:01] administrator for the nursing home and
[5:03] the establishment of a nursing home
[5:04] commission to aid in maintaining good
[5:06] government uh health and welfare of the
[5:09] county.
[5:10] >> Thank you, Mr. Benson. This time we open
[5:12] the floor for a public hearing on
[5:13] legislative bill number 2026-11.
[5:16] If you have any comments that you'd like
[5:17] to make in reference to this specific
[5:18] legislation, come to the podium. Please
[5:20] state your name, your county residence,
[5:21] and your concerns.
[5:23] >> Jim Atkins, Wakcom County, District 2.
[5:27] Uh I know there's been a lot of uh talk,
[5:30] meetings, and concerns about the nursing
[5:32] home, and hopefully we're going to get
[5:34] most of that taken care of today.
[5:36] However, there's two things that I'd
[5:38] like the council to consider before they
[5:40] vote on this legislation today. The
[5:43] first would be section 49.2
[5:47] where it states the county executive or
[5:49] the county council with the affirmative
[5:51] vote of five members of the county
[5:53] council shall have the authority to
[5:55] terminate the nursing home
[5:57] administrator.
[5:59] I'd like the council to consider an
[6:03] amendment to that to read the county
[6:06] executive andor county council and this
[6:10] is the change or addition with a
[6:13] majority recommen recommendation from
[6:16] the commission.
[6:19] Then an affirmative vote of five members
[6:21] of the county council shall have the
[6:23] authority to terminate the nursing home
[6:25] administrator.
[6:26] This gives a little bit of power to the
[6:30] uh
[6:31] commission and lets them notify the
[6:34] council if there is a problem and it
[6:37] needs to be addressed. The second item
[6:39] I'd like you to consider is 49.5
[6:43] which is the membership portion stating
[6:46] who will be a member of this commission.
[6:48] I'd also like to suggest that the
[6:52] commission be changed from seven members
[6:56] to eight with the eighth member being a
[6:59] non voting member and that member being
[7:03] the nursing home administrator added to
[7:06] that. So that that person is involved in
[7:09] all the meetings that the commission has
[7:12] but they do not have a vote but they are
[7:14] able to educate the commission on topics
[7:17] that are going on. Thank you.
[7:20] >> Thank you Mr. Hens.
[7:24] » Good morning. Uh Joe Venosa District 7
[7:26] Wamiko County. Um,
[7:29] you know, some of you know I teach
[7:31] history for a living. And so the phrase
[7:34] history repeats itself sort of grinds
[7:36] our gears cuz it's sort of considered
[7:37] overly simplistic. But, uh, if you've
[7:40] looked at the nursing home issue in our
[7:41] county, it really is a situation where
[7:43] history is often repeated itself. Um, I
[7:47] watched and read the minutes of the
[7:48] November 2018 county council work
[7:52] session where specifically issues of the
[7:55] nursing home came up then. And I think
[7:57] it's long overdue that we're finally
[7:59] putting some needed oversight. As one
[8:01] person in the community put it, this
[8:03] legislation
[8:05] is not punishment. It's not overly
[8:07] latigious. It's protection. It's
[8:10] protection for our seniors. It's
[8:12] protection for the staff who put in the
[8:14] effort to take care of our most
[8:15] vulnerable every day. And more
[8:18] importantly, it brings a process forward
[8:20] that future councils and future
[8:22] executives can work with. So I commend
[8:24] the council on making this a priority. I
[8:27] want to commend delegate shares sample
[8:29] use as well for her efforts and helping
[8:31] to guide some of the concepts behind it.
[8:34] Uh that being said, I would like to
[8:36] point out one specific uh issue that I just thought might merit
[8:40] consideration. This is section 49.2
[8:44] section D. Uh it's at the very bottom.
[8:47] Uh it says the nursing home director
[8:48] shall fully cooperate and provide all
[8:50] reasonable information requested by the
[8:52] Wakcomo Nursing Home Commission. I
[8:54] absolutely concur. I just think there
[8:57] has to be some specificity as a timeline
[8:59] for cooperating with requests because
[9:02] the concern that I have is that in the
[9:05] future if there are issues it might be a
[9:08] situation where information is is just
[9:10] slow walked where it's not given
[9:12] priority and they use that as a loophole
[9:15] to not comply. So, I think that merits
[9:18] some slight consideration. Um, that
[9:20] being said, again, I want to thank the
[9:24] community for helping guide the
[9:26] conversation in this. Many of us came
[9:28] out several days ago uh to the First
[9:31] Baptist Church. And the overwhelming
[9:33] consensus in our county, I believe, is
[9:36] to move forward with this necessary
[9:38] protection. It will have longstanding
[9:41] positive impact, I believe, on our
[9:42] community and our senior citizens. And
[9:45] honestly, I don't understand why anyone
[9:48] would be against basic transparency and
[9:51] us as citizens through the council and
[9:53] the public having more oversight. I
[9:55] think it's win-win for everybody and I
[9:57] look forward to seeing it be
[9:59] implemented. Thank you so much.
[10:02] [clears throat]
[10:07] » Good morning, Wendy Catlin, a resident
[10:09] of Wcomo County. I've been thinking back
[10:12] over the past six weeks of whatifs and
[10:15] how things may have turned out after
[10:18] concerns were brought forth with
[10:20] reference to the Wakcomo nursing unit.
[10:23] What if our county executive had said,
[10:25] "I've heard your concerns and I will
[10:27] look into the matter." That didn't
[10:30] happen. The very next day, August 5th,
[10:32] she made a statement to the Baltimore
[10:34] Sun and I quote, "The nursing home has
[10:37] become a talking point in local
[10:38] politics." Now, I was at the August 4th
[10:41] council meeting, and what I heard was
[10:44] one person after another talk of how the
[10:46] new administrator had come in and turned
[10:48] the place upside down. Everything they
[10:51] were doing was wrong. Everything the
[10:53] past administrator had done was wrong,
[10:55] and how she was going to straighten it
[10:57] all out. I heard concerns of being short
[11:00] staffed and how this potentially could
[11:02] and would affect the precious souls who
[11:04] live there. I heard of intimidation and
[11:08] I heard of resignations and yes some
[11:10] terminations.
[11:12] I have thought what if the new
[11:13] administrator had come in and said we
[11:16] will all work together to keep Wcomaka
[11:18] nursing home the number one long-term
[11:21] care facility in Salsbury and the lower
[11:23] eastern shore of Maryland. That didn't
[11:26] happen. What if the county executive had
[11:29] not sent her two henchmen, Steve Lake
[11:32] and Corey Houston, over to the nursing
[11:34] home immediately to run interference for
[11:37] the new administrator instead of them
[11:39] going in and saying, "We are here to
[11:41] help rather than belittle, berate, and
[11:44] bully the employees on a daily basis."
[11:47] One, if not both of them have been there
[11:50] almost every day since this began. I
[11:52] have a question. If this administrator
[11:55] is so highly qualified and doing amazing
[11:58] things, then how come she needs to have
[12:00] someone there holding her hand every
[12:02] day? What if at her press conference,
[12:04] the county executive and Mr. Leaken had
[12:07] said, "We have looked at the financials
[12:09] and realized there is a huge amount of
[12:11] money due the nursing home and know this
[12:14] has been an issue since it was raised at
[12:17] the November 20th, 2018 council meeting
[12:20] and several times since. and we are here
[12:23] to help the Wcoma nursing home try and
[12:26] recoup some of this. No, that didn't
[12:28] happen. Instead, it was statement after
[12:31] statement of what a terrible job the
[12:32] past administrator had done. I might
[12:34] add, since then, the past administrator
[12:37] has been continuously drugged through
[12:39] the mud, [clears throat] and she doesn't
[12:40] deserve that. See, if no one has tried
[12:43] to do anything about it since 2018, then
[12:46] why is it so important now?
[12:48] What if at the town hall meeting the new
[12:50] administrator who was invited to attend
[12:53] had come and tried to answer some
[12:55] questions or talk of concerns the
[12:57] community had instead of leaving the
[12:59] county executive to face the many many
[13:01] people in attendance? [clears throat]
[13:04] What if employee resignations stopped
[13:06] these past six weeks instead of
[13:09] continuing, which they are a lot of
[13:12] whatifs, but the one that strikes or
[13:15] sticks out the most is what if the
[13:17] county executive had not hired the only
[13:19] one who applied for the administrative
[13:21] position? Would this chaos not be upon
[13:24] us? I want to quote what our county
[13:26] executive said at the town hall meeting.
[13:29] The good news is we all want what's
[13:31] best. We all need to get in the same
[13:33] boat and grow together. That's what we
[13:35] need to do. Look around.
[13:39] This is the boat. There's always room
[13:41] for one more.
[13:43] >> What if you come and get on the boat?
[13:46] Good old Dr. Phil says, "For every
[13:49] conflict, someone needs to be a hero.
[13:52] Who's going to be the hero for the Wcoma
[13:55] nursing home?" Thank you. Thank you.
[14:02] » [cough]
[14:02] [clears throat]
[14:06] » Good morning. My name is Joe White,
[14:08] Wakamako County. Uh, I'm here today to
[14:11] support the emergency legislation, not
[14:13] in its entirety, but in the fact that
[14:15] you're here to to pass this today. There
[14:17] are some things I' I'd like for you to
[14:19] consider as you're about to go through
[14:21] your your public deliberations. And one
[14:24] amendment I'd like for you to consider.
[14:27] The nursing home emergency legislation
[14:29] should be about several items and we
[14:31] need to make sure we don't lose sight of
[14:33] this. We need to protect the residents
[14:35] who call it home now and in the near
[14:38] future. We do need to protect the county
[14:41] taxpayers from the liability, the
[14:44] lawsuits. It can come from a lot of
[14:47] areas. We've we've heard possibly from
[14:49] patients, possibly from the director
[14:51] herself. We heard that from the county
[14:52] executive. We need to make sure that the
[14:55] county taxpayers are are not stepping
[14:57] into a quagmire.
[15:00] We also have heard from the de deputy
[15:03] director of administration that there is
[15:05] financial concerns and referencing as
[15:08] some other folks have as well the 2018
[15:11] council meeting from November. There
[15:13] were there was a loan made back at that
[15:15] time that has still not been paid back.
[15:17] We do need to be accountable to the
[15:19] taxpayers of how we're going to approach
[15:22] the the nursing home. I thought Dr.
[15:24] Venosa actually brought up a good point.
[15:26] If you're going to talk about audits,
[15:28] there needs to be timelines. We've we've
[15:30] seen this in last two years. So,
[15:33] although that wasn't something that I
[15:35] was considering, I thought that that was
[15:36] an excellent point. The one that I
[15:39] wanted to talk about was 49.2, which Mr.
[15:41] Atkins brought up and he had an
[15:43] interesting perspective that I hadn't
[15:45] thought of,
[15:46] >> but I don't think the county council
[15:48] should blanket have the ability to fire
[15:52] the nursing home director simply with a
[15:54] 5 to2 vote. I think that's a precedent
[15:56] that's not there now, although maybe
[15:59] should be considered in the future, but
[16:01] it's not there for any other department.
[16:03] But if there is a commission and it was
[16:06] agreed back in 2018 there should be a
[16:08] commission and I've heard the county
[16:09] executive support having a commission
[16:12] and the commission much like the
[16:13] planning and zoning may may want to do
[16:16] something then I do think it should be considered. I thought Mr.
[16:19] Atkins had an excellent point.
[16:21] The other thing from 2018
[16:25] that was brought up at that at that
[16:27] meeting, that work session was about
[16:29] modernizing the nursing home. And from a
[16:31] business standpoint, if you're going to
[16:33] have something that could be an asset or
[16:35] a liability, and in 8 years, we've not
[16:38] had a comprehensive plan to update it or
[16:40] turn part of it into an assisted living
[16:42] facility. Why? We're looking at
[16:45] there only being 2/3 of the bids taken.
[16:48] When my grandmother was there years ago,
[16:50] this where she wanted to go, she had to
[16:52] wait for a bed. So, if this was a
[16:55] restaurant, we'd be asking, why aren't
[16:57] we filling up all the tables? So, I do
[16:59] think we need to consider that. So,
[17:01] please consider removing that one line
[17:02] for 49.2. Maybe making Mr. Atkins
[17:05] adjustment would be good. Thanks,
[17:10] >> Mr. White.
[17:13] >> My name is Jackie Thomas.
[17:18] And uh I've been going to the nursing
[17:20] home for a while cuz Miss Jean Morris is
[17:24] in there. Um I think that
[17:29] we should grow up and work together cuz
[17:34] the whole town is against each other. We know we got people in there. I've
[17:40] been going there for a while and
[17:44] like they said it was short-handed.
[17:46] It wasn't clean like it should be and I
[17:51] guess somebody decided to change it
[17:54] which it should have been changed.
[17:56] I don't get on the bandwagon. I've been
[17:59] going in there every day watching stuff
[18:02] and it smells better, the food is
[18:06] better. And um like I said, we got our
[18:08] own that was in the streets. Miss Jean
[18:11] Morris is in there. But I don't see
[18:15] nobody really,
[18:17] you know, going to see her. But I go see
[18:20] her. Check the roster. I've been in
[18:22] there.
[18:24] But I'm just saying,
[18:26] you can't change. The lady can't change
[18:29] overnight. Just like it didn't change
[18:31] from the past. That should have been
[18:34] taken care of long before we fighting
[18:37] each other in the streets. Cuz that's
[18:39] what we're doing. We fighting each other
[18:41] in the streets. We people that don't
[18:44] even know what's really going on should
[18:46] go visit the nursing home. They should
[18:49] have visited a long time ago cuz I made
[18:51] complaints about the bathroom and Miss
[18:54] Jean's room wasn't clean. I did that. I
[18:58] did that. And when I looked, the woman
[19:01] came right in and cleaned it. But I'm
[19:03] just saying, stop listening to
[19:06] everything. Go visit yourself. Make a
[19:09] decision on yourself. Don't listen to
[19:12] all this hearsay stuff. Go visit the
[19:15] nursing home and when you see something
[19:17] wrong, write it down and report it.
[19:19] Don't just pile on. Do it yourself like
[19:23] I'm doing. I've been in there since this
[19:25] happened almost every other day,
[19:27] checking, watching, seeing what's going
[19:30] on. Y'all got to do it yourself. We keep
[19:33] going by hearsay stuff. We the nursing
[19:37] home is important to black and whites
[19:40] and we want it to be
[19:43] correct. And I know I work for a
[19:46] facility at Maple Shade. People if you
[19:50] if a person got a scratch or anything,
[19:53] we had to write up a report and it had
[19:55] to go up to the state. I don't know
[19:57] what's the state doing. I don't know. I
[20:00] can't say what they didn't do right or
[20:01] what they did do right. But I don't
[20:04] think the state was involved as much as
[20:06] they should have been because if it was,
[20:10] we shouldn't have had to go through
[20:11] this. It [clears throat] it got people
[20:14] complaining and and people talking stuff
[20:16] they don't even know.
[20:19] So what I'm saying, we got to get
[20:23] together, make this Sbury Nursing Home
[20:27] the best place, cuz it is a good place.
[20:29] It is. We just can't tear it down
[20:32] because I've been in there a lot and I
[20:34] know the first people in there and I
[20:37] know the second people in there now.
[20:40] You know, we can't make decisions
[20:42] because we don't know what's going on.
[20:45] And that's we as a community go in there
[20:48] and see for yourself. Everybody got
[20:50] different opinion.
[20:52] >> I'm not giving them a a thing yet.
[20:56] >> Thank you.
[20:56] >> I'm not giving them a a pass yet. I'm
[20:59] just watching and seeing and taking
[21:02] notes.
[21:04] >> Mr. President,
[21:06] >> yes.
[21:07] >> I need for them to stop and not mention
[21:10] anybody any patient name in that nursing
[21:13] home for a hippo violation.
[21:15] >> There's a point of order that no no uh
[21:17] patients name should be mentioned
[21:20] >> during these comments.
[21:22] >> So, we appreciate that. Thank you very
[21:23] much.
[21:25] >> Lord have mercy.
[21:26] >> You should have said that.
[21:27] >> Excuse me. Thank you.
[21:32] » Um, good morning. Good morning, council.
[21:34] My name is Monica Brooks, president of
[21:36] Wakamako County NAACP and also a
[21:39] resident of of course of Wakamako
[21:40] County. Um, I do agree that we need to
[21:44] make this plan comprehensively that um,
[21:47] this is for the betterment of all of our
[21:49] community and everyone should be um, um,
[21:52] encouraged to to um, support. Um I also
[21:57] am a longtime person who has spent not
[22:00] only at Wakcom nursing home but Genesis
[22:03] um Berlin Nursing Home to go in person
[22:07] um to see things um for myself but for
[22:10] NAACP.
[22:11] This matter came to our attention um
[22:14] some some ideas and complaints about
[22:16] wanting more staffing and um as well as
[22:21] structural changes and that was back in
[22:23] March which we brought forth to the
[22:24] council. Um I mentioned before that we
[22:27] were told wait for the new administrator
[22:28] to come in etc etc. But um
[22:35] from what was mentioned and um that and
[22:39] what I've seen here um this nursing home
[22:42] has never never been a priority um for
[22:45] the county executive and who has now had
[22:48] their deputy administrator in there or
[22:51] their HR person almost every day which I
[22:54] don't know what their role is in there.
[22:55] They're not administrators.
[22:57] So
[23:00] I want to make one thing clear.
[23:03] It is very easy for people to dismiss
[23:06] important matters especially as they
[23:07] relate to the vulnerable populations as
[23:10] political.
[23:12] There is absolutely nothing political
[23:14] about this.
[23:16] I know certain names were mentioned,
[23:19] Councilwoman Shields, um, Delegate
[23:21] Sample Hughes, who actually have family
[23:24] members there.
[23:27] And let's also be clear, they are not
[23:30] they do not have opponents in their
[23:31] race. They've already won. So, what are
[23:33] they gaining politically for this? It is
[23:37] their job and their duty to protect the
[23:39] vulnerable, to protect all citizens, and
[23:42] do the greatest good for all people. So
[23:45] to dismiss them and talk about them and
[23:48] label it political is tacky, childish,
[23:51] and inappropriate.
[23:54] It is true
[23:56] that the administrator
[23:58] should have been there to answer for
[24:00] themselves and they were not and I blame
[24:03] the county executive for that because
[24:06] that is her employee.
[24:08] Since this administrator, we've talked
[24:10] about more than 14 people are gone and
[24:13] some more are leaving.
[24:16] This is a pattern that we have seen
[24:19] talking about unqualified people being
[24:21] hired in the county. We brought that up
[24:23] to the county council meetings as well.
[24:26] We were told to give names and have
[24:29] people come to the HR to say who they
[24:31] are. Well, look what happens when people
[24:33] say something. They are being
[24:35] terrorized, put down, talked about, told
[24:37] get on board or get out at the nursing
[24:39] home. So why would anybody else in the
[24:41] county want to come forward and file the
[24:43] complaints that they have? Because they
[24:45] are not going to be received well.
[24:46] They're going to be retaliated against
[24:48] and we are going to make sure that those
[24:50] people are held accountable for doing
[24:51] that.
[24:58] » Brooks.
[24:58] >> Hi, my name is Helina Fleming. Um, my
[25:01] mother's name was just mentioned, so I'm here. I'm giving you permission
[25:06] since her name has already been
[25:07] mentioned. My brother and I are there
[25:09] almost every day at the nursing home,
[25:12] one or the other one of us. Um, and
[25:16] we
[25:18] have seen no issues other than normal
[25:20] issues with the nursing home. I've had
[25:22] my grandmother and my grid and my father
[25:25] at another nursing home. and why comical
[25:27] nursing home is far above and beyond
[25:30] what we went through with those two in
[25:33] other nursing homes.
[25:36] I'd like to
[25:39] ask that when whatever you do and
[25:42] however you do it that the patients
[25:46] family members are involved somehow in
[25:49] the decisions that you make going
[25:50] forward after this emergency legislation
[25:53] is passed if it's passed. I think that
[25:57] most of the concern about the nurses
[25:59] home should have come from the families.
[26:03] I don't understand why
[26:06] we needed a new administrator to point
[26:08] out anything. I've been there for
[26:10] breakfast. I've been there for lunch.
[26:11] I've been there for dinner. And I don't
[26:14] have any issues with that. Um certainly
[26:17] this nursing home can use improvements.
[26:20] All of them can. It can use
[26:22] improvements. And I hope that out of
[26:24] this this is not a political or whatever
[26:28] thing where it's just us against them. I
[26:32] hope in the end at the end of this
[26:35] that the nursing home gets the
[26:37] improvements, the new systems, the new
[26:39] protocols, the new rules, whatever it
[26:41] needs to improve. Um I'd also like to
[26:45] say as a person who's been in management
[26:48] um for a lot of years that firing people
[26:51] is one of the laziest forms of
[26:54] management. Anybody can come in and
[26:57] point at people and say that they're not
[26:59] doing their job, you're not doing this,
[27:01] you're not doing that. A good manager
[27:03] comes in and they motivate. They change
[27:05] procedures. They change systems. They
[27:08] change things and they include the
[27:10] people that they've invested in and the
[27:12] people that have invested in them. So, I
[27:15] hope that we consider all of that when
[27:19] we're making this decision. Um, I don't
[27:22] know the lady, the new administrator. I
[27:24] just know her in from passing and by
[27:27] sight and so I don't know her personally
[27:30] but I do know what a manager is supposed
[27:32] to do and what she's doing over there is
[27:35] not what you're supposed to do as a
[27:36] manager. Um so moving forward I hope you
[27:41] guys will keep in mind the patients and
[27:43] the families at the nur that have people
[27:45] at the nursing home and consider us when
[27:48] you make your decisions. Thank you.
[27:50] >> Thank you.
[27:57] Hi, council. Um, Lana Foley, county
[28:00] resident, city resident. Um, I just
[28:02] wanted to piggyback on that. It was
[28:04] [snorts] something that I was waiting to
[28:05] see if anybody else brought up. Um, I
[28:08] know it's nice to have a nice little
[28:10] package of seven members of a council or
[28:12] a commission. Um, but if there needs to
[28:15] be eight or nine, I think it is
[28:17] important to make sure all people that
[28:19] really should be in the decision-m are
[28:21] included.
[28:23] I think that it should be maybe
[28:25] considered to have some sort of wording
[28:28] and maybe because you're expecting you
[28:31] can't really expect people to pull this
[28:33] together, but maybe having an if
[28:35] available
[28:37] um a member from
[28:41] a group that maybe the nursing home
[28:44] organizes that is visitors, families,
[28:46] volunteers that they can get together,
[28:49] which would be something that they would
[28:50] need to put together on their own. Um,
[28:53] but somehow having some sort of wording
[28:55] that if available, that way it's not
[28:58] something that's a yes or no that they
[29:00] have to have that put into place, but if
[29:02] they want to be involved in the decision
[29:04] making, that that's an option. That's
[29:06] it.
[29:06] >> Thank you, M.
[29:21] Good morning. My name is Mary Ashanti
[29:24] and I thank God for the opportunity to
[29:26] be here and um appreciate the the
[29:30] council uh giving us the opportunity to
[29:34] speak. Uh one of the things that I would
[29:36] like to have happen after this uh the
[29:39] passing of this uh emergency act is to
[29:44] at the next meeting which is an evening
[29:46] meeting have the administrator to come
[29:50] before this body and and uh enlighten us
[29:54] about all the changes that have been
[29:56] made
[29:58] uh because there's been a lot of change
[29:59] that have been made. families don't know
[30:03] uh who's doing what what's outsourced
[30:07] and all of that kind of stuff. And um
[30:11] since the new administrator, I don't see
[30:13] any better service uh and whatever. My
[30:17] mother was one of those people that the
[30:20] inspector cited as the nursing home
[30:23] being non-compliant.
[30:25] Those things haven't been completely
[30:27] corrected yet.
[30:29] So, um there is a new director of
[30:33] nursing trying to give her enough time
[30:35] to um
[30:39] get things um addressed what was what
[30:42] was seen wrong by the inspectors.
[30:47] Um, I I just had a person that as a
[30:51] volunteer, I'm not going to call her
[30:53] name, but she comes to the nursing home
[30:56] twice a week. My mother
[31:00] is one of the people that she sees and
[31:03] there are others. She comes and they
[31:06] look for her. I know that um on a
[31:10] Thursday my mother looks for her. I'm
[31:13] just being told by her that she is not
[31:16] one there
[31:19] and it's made uh clear. So
[31:24] I would like for after this uh emergency
[31:27] act
[31:29] that some of the harassment that's going
[31:31] on is cease and desist.
[31:35] There's no need for anyone all these
[31:39] people to be coming over there now. They
[31:41] made their point
[31:44] uh very very clear. We're not ignorant.
[31:47] We know that it's harassment. So, we
[31:50] need for them to cease and assist.
[31:53] Thank you. [applause]
[31:58] » Thank you, Mr. Shanti.
[32:06] » Good morning. I'm delegate Shereice
[32:08] Ample Hughes. first and foremost like to
[32:10] say thank you to the county council for
[32:13] um taking up this emergency legislation
[32:15] and making sure it was an emergency
[32:17] because it is an emergency. Um contrary
[32:20] to some people's beliefs and thoughts um
[32:23] no establishment should have to um have
[32:26] a exit of about 17 18 people within 3
[32:31] months. It's just it's unheard of in
[32:34] some cases. Um but what I would like to
[32:36] say this morning is um the uh statement
[32:40] has been made about whether or not the
[32:41] state has been involved. Yes, the state
[32:43] has involved. The office of healthcare
[32:44] quality they conducted their assessment
[32:47] came and did invest in investigations
[32:49] and there are some deficiencies and yes
[32:52] they need to be resolved and there will
[32:53] be a timeline. The state will come back
[32:55] and conduct those assessments and see if
[32:57] they've been improved. Also the
[32:59] department of labor was contacted by an
[33:01] employee due to some health um
[33:04] occupational hazards that were taking
[33:06] place so that individual could do their
[33:08] job properly. So those things have been
[33:10] underway. Also the um administrator um
[33:14] licensing board has been contacted to
[33:16] discuss the concerns of the
[33:18] administrator. So the statement in
[33:20] question may have been where's the state
[33:23] to this extent and to my knowledge this
[33:25] is where and where they are and um the
[33:27] county should have copies of that
[33:29] information if not it should be
[33:31] forthcoming. The other item I wanted to
[33:33] just share with you is that um the exit
[33:37] of employees um again it is
[33:39] heartbreaking because just on Sunday um
[33:42] the activities coordinator she sat and
[33:44] cried and I I didn't speak about this
[33:46] issue at all while I was visiting my
[33:48] mother. We were in the cafeteria, but
[33:50] she came to me and she said, "I'm sorry.
[33:51] I have to do this, but I have to leave.
[33:53] because this environment
[33:55] is toxic and I can no longer be here."
[33:57] And my last day is October the 8th.
[33:59] Beautiful woman. Been there 18 years.
[34:01] And you know, no, how I know she's
[34:02] beautiful because she could just see it
[34:04] genuinely from her conversation. But
[34:07] even more so, this is why it hurts me to
[34:08] my heart because my mother and this
[34:11] woman employee, they reference
[34:13] themselves as sisters. One's born on
[34:15] Octo, excuse me, August the 14th and the
[34:18] other one's born on August the 15th and
[34:20] they've just had that relationship since
[34:22] day one since my mother's been in there.
[34:24] So those relationships are real. Um and
[34:27] so I just wanted to highlight that the
[34:30] um in closing what I will share with you
[34:32] is this. Um this is not political for
[34:35] me. If I if I stop being a legislator
[34:37] today, you know, so be it. I'm still
[34:40] going to be shar Hughes and I'm still
[34:42] going to be the mother. I'm going to be
[34:43] the daughter. I'm gonna be the sister
[34:44] and all that of persons that I love and
[34:46] I'm going to make sure my community
[34:47] still and I have been even before I
[34:49] became an elected official. Um I used to
[34:51] go to a nurse home when I was a
[34:52] teenager. That's just what we did with
[34:54] the American Legion Auxiliary. So it's
[34:56] in my blood. It's in my it's in my skin.
[34:58] So the county executive, she can
[34:59] continue to talk about me all she wants.
[35:01] It really has done nothing for me but
[35:03] given me more energy and fuel to keep
[35:05] fighting for what I've been fighting
[35:06] for. And I wish and I know it was stated
[35:08] by a citizen. I wish he had come to the
[35:11] table as a humble servant and say, "Hey,
[35:14] let me understand. Let me understand
[35:15] where we are and let's work together." I
[35:18] will work with anyone. I deal with
[35:19] opposition every day, all day in the in
[35:21] the House of Delegates and I work with
[35:22] people. So, um, just last thing, I know
[35:26] my time is up. I'll be respectful. Um, I
[35:28] was looking at the legislation and in
[35:30] 49.5
[35:32] it talks about the membership and 49.6
[35:36] about talks about terms, vacancies, and
[35:38] removals. And in letter A, it says the
[35:40] family member commissioner. And I
[35:42] haven't been able to find that in 49.5
[35:45] section of where a family member
[35:47] commissioner will be a part of the
[35:49] membership. Um, if that is going to
[35:52] happen, that would be great. I know that
[35:54] was one of my suggestions. And if I'm
[35:56] reading this incorrectly, my apologies,
[35:57] but I did see that. And I just wanted to
[35:59] know if the family member commissioner
[36:01] was going to be a part of this body or
[36:04] this commission because it does uh bode
[36:06] well to have the experience and the
[36:08] knowledge from someone who is a family
[36:10] member uh to be a part of this along
[36:12] with those professionals. So, thank you
[36:13] again for your time and I'd like to
[36:15] thank the community again for standing
[36:17] up, speaking out and they know they're
[36:19] real, they're people, they're here and
[36:21] they just want the support of this body
[36:23] and everybody else who has the capacity
[36:24] to help. Thank you.
[36:28] >> [applause]
[36:30] » Thank you, Delegate Sample Hughes.
[36:37] » Good morning, Dolores Jones Peters, um
[36:40] citizen of Wakcoma County. Uh the letter
[36:43] that I'm about to read is not uh one of
[36:46] my own. However, because of the um
[36:49] toxicity, this person would remain
[36:51] anonymous. I am a current employee at
[36:55] Wakama Nursing Home and an emergency
[36:57] legislation to form an established
[36:59] commission is most definitely needed at
[37:02] this time. Steve Lankin state at a
[37:04] morning meeting with department heads
[37:06] only that we employees are going to open
[37:09] up Pandora's box and we do at the end of
[37:12] the day will be hurtful for you and the
[37:14] residents. Tina is not going anywhere.
[37:17] Tina, myself, and Corey are still going
[37:19] to be here and the executive. The
[37:22] employees are blowing it all up.
[37:24] Everything can be fixed. Let's talk
[37:26] about it. I'm not saying decisions will
[37:28] be made by a group collectively. The
[37:30] reason an established commission is
[37:34] needed. Corey County HR was present at
[37:36] the same morning meeting and stated, "If
[37:38] we employees continue what we're doing,
[37:40] the state will come up here, come up
[37:43] here with body cameras and guns and
[37:45] interview every resident. If they're not
[37:48] shook now, they will be even more scared
[37:50] then and we employees have opened a
[37:54] Pandora box. We better be prepared."
[37:57] Reason and established commission is
[37:59] needed. Geanna unpaid internship with
[38:02] Tina stated entitled employees. You need
[38:06] to come here to work and not be babies.
[38:08] Spoiled brats. Reason an established
[38:12] commission is needed. Tina Fosky being
[38:15] the new administrator in in it itself is
[38:18] not the issue. Tina Fier has been
[38:20] administrator in other facilities as we
[38:22] all know. She did not hold her position
[38:24] for long in any of facilities but has
[38:27] worked in previously.
[38:29] As of April the 1st, 2026, her average
[38:32] rating as administrator in a one-star
[38:36] facility, 125 deficiencies, one flag
[38:40] with abuse, and $160,325
[38:44] in fines. I will leave that there. Tina
[38:47] has worked as a respiratory therapist in
[38:49] the state of Delaware and at the
[38:51] facility she worked at during CO no
[38:53] fatalities occurred related to CO that
[38:56] is quite impressive. Tina knows the
[38:59] requirements of being the a director
[39:01] administrator of a facility
[39:04] nursing home is an antid of the county.
[39:06] Tina called the county for assistance
[39:08] because she needed help. The county
[39:10] mainly Steven Corey along with Julie
[39:12] Jordiano has been involved since Tina
[39:15] stepped in. If Tina cannot handle her
[39:17] job as previous administrators have in
[39:19] the past, what makes her certified and
[39:21] competent to do her job
[39:24] if she needs Corey County HR who is
[39:28] being paid by the taxpayers to do county
[39:30] related duties?
[39:32] Is being a nursing home administrator a
[39:34] twoperson job? A reason an established
[39:38] commission is needed.
[39:40] Tina Foski does not engage with
[39:42] employees or the residents as uh Corey
[39:44] and Julie and Steve portray. And I say
[39:47] this because the residents of our count
[39:50] our priority are our priority. Not just
[39:53] the alert and the oriented ones. It
[39:55] includes the ones who have dementia, the
[39:57] ones who have no family to visit, the
[39:59] ones who come for rehab. Tina has
[40:01] singled out two residents in particular.
[40:03] Resident number one has been frequently
[40:05] visited by Tina since that first county
[40:07] council meeting that was held. Not only
[40:09] did does Tina sit and chat with her on a
[40:11] regular basis, so does Corey. Do I know
[40:14] personally what is being said? No, I do
[40:16] not. I can tell you this though. Tina
[40:18] and Corey sat in conference one evening
[40:20] eating crafts. The fact that this
[40:22] resident is also the president of the of
[40:24] the resident council, a council to give
[40:27] residents an independent organized voice
[40:29] to share concerns suggest facility
[40:32] improvements and plan social activities
[40:34] would lead one to believe some sort of
[40:36] manipulation was taking place because
[40:39] the time is up. I want to go on to say
[40:41] we need to be the voice for the ones who
[40:43] are silent, the ones who show up for
[40:45] every day. We need the consistency. We
[40:46] the need the uh continuity. We need to
[40:49] advocate for our residents and family.
[40:51] This is not never should have been
[40:52] political. This has always been a fight
[40:54] for the resident, a fight to keep a
[40:56] comical nursing home for the residents.
[40:58] I also would like to include a few other
[41:00] favoritisms which I will not read at
[41:02] this time. However, I do have copies for
[41:04] each one of our council members. The
[41:06] fact belongs to the people as the county
[41:08] executive stated and that is why one
[41:11] person should not be making decisions.
[41:13] We need an established commission formed
[41:15] to provide continuity of care, continued
[41:18] oversight and accountability when
[41:20] decisions decisions, excuse me, are
[41:22] being made about our most vulnerable
[41:24] members of the community. Our residents
[41:26] deserve respect, dignity, and the
[41:29] security. Thank you.
[41:31] >> Thanks, Peters.
[41:43] the public comments.
[41:50] Good morning. Mike Goldberg, WC Comico.
[41:52] I'll be very brief. Um, here we are in
[41:55] the midst of an official public hearing
[41:59] for the nursing home. Conspicuously
[42:01] absent.
[42:03] It's the county executive and the
[42:05] administrator for the nursing home. This
[42:08] is not the first time that one or the
[42:11] other or both have been absent when uh
[42:15] there is important critical issues that
[42:18] are being discussed by this council.
[42:21] Missing an action. Julie Gardano.
[42:23] Missing an action. Tina Fosski. Thank
[42:26] you.
[42:28] [applause]
[42:42] Steven Lake, assistant director of
[42:44] administration. Uh before I get into my
[42:46] remarks, I just want to say it's not
[42:48] surprising that the character
[42:50] assassination has been ramped up. Uh it
[42:54] just
[42:55] when you can't argue the facts or
[42:57] disprove the facts, you move to
[42:59] discredit people. And that's exactly
[43:01] what's going on today. It's pure and
[43:04] simple. It's character assassination.
[43:06] Just what some of you have done to Tina
[43:08] Fosski. There is no emergency at the
[43:11] Wcomo Nursing Home. Yet, this council is
[43:14] poised to pass emergency legislation.
[43:17] The nursing home administrator walked
[43:18] into a situation that by any measure is
[43:21] dysfunctional. She uncovered
[43:23] deficiencies that were hidden from plain
[43:25] view and swept under the carpet for
[43:27] years. She brought these issues to the
[43:30] attention of the administration and took
[43:33] swift and decisive action to remedy
[43:35] them. This is what competent and
[43:38] responsible management looks like. And
[43:40] each and every action she has taken is
[43:43] in the best interest of the Wcomo
[43:46] Nursing Home, its employees, and above
[43:49] all residents of and their families.
[43:52] From the day this became a public
[43:54] manner, our administration has
[43:56] repeatedly documented that each and
[43:58] every public accusation directed at Tina
[44:00] Fosski is unfounded. Nevertheless, you
[44:03] proceed full steam ahead as if we have
[44:05] never disproven the false accusations,
[44:08] including those that have been made
[44:09] today. And you've inserted yourselves
[44:12] into a matter that according to the
[44:14] Department of Law, you likely have no
[44:16] legal standing. Worse yet, you've
[44:18] rebuffed our overtures to meet with you
[44:20] privately to discuss these matters. And
[44:23] a majority of you have not even set foot
[44:25] in the nursing home since Tina has been
[44:27] administrator, which is substantiated by
[44:30] the visitor logs. As far as this
[44:33] legislation is concerned, we support the
[44:35] concept of an advisory board. In fact,
[44:37] the executive recommended this idea the
[44:39] delegate sample used before she penned
[44:41] her letter to council. But we should
[44:43] take the appropriate time to identify
[44:45] and vet individuals for this these
[44:48] important positions and not rush to meet
[44:51] some arbitrary contrived deadline.
[44:53] Emergency legislation should be reserved
[44:56] for actual emergencies. We especially
[44:58] take exception with the provision to
[45:00] terminate the nursing home administrator
[45:02] by a 5 to2 vote to advocate for her
[45:05] removal. And to be clear, this is
[45:07] exactly what you're doing. It's a vote
[45:10] to advocate for the status quo. A status
[45:13] quo of uneven care that existed long
[45:15] before Tina Fosausky set foot in the
[45:17] Wiccomo nursing home. A status quo that
[45:20] enables past due accounts to acrue to
[45:23] $2.3 million with no attempt to collect
[45:26] these debts. A status quo that enables
[45:28] the state for years to repeatedly site
[45:31] and find the nursing home for resident
[45:34] and medical care deficiencies. A status
[45:36] quo that enables substandard facilities
[45:39] maintenance and necessitates the county
[45:41] to step in and pay for items like roofs,
[45:43] generators, and HVA systems. A status
[45:47] quo that hides the fact that staff
[45:48] turnover was considerably higher during
[45:51] the past administrations. Tina Fosski
[45:54] didn't create these problems, but
[45:56] because she's running the facility by
[45:58] the book and holding employees
[46:00] accountable, disgruntled individuals,
[46:02] some members of the public of this and
[46:04] this body are proclaiming based entirely
[46:06] on hearsay that Tina is the problem.
[46:09] Where's the righteous indignation before
[46:11] Tina Foley was the administrator? We've
[46:14] proven again and again these issues have
[46:16] existed for years that none of this
[46:18] seems to matter. It doesn't matter that
[46:21] the former administrator kept this
[46:22] information from the executive, kept it
[46:25] from the council, and kept it from the
[46:27] public. It doesn't seem to matter that
[46:29] statemandated nursing care standards
[46:31] were not being adhered to. It doesn't
[46:34] seem to matter that the nursing home has
[46:35] been cited and fined by the state for
[46:38] many, many years. All that seems to
[46:41] matter is maintaining a family
[46:43] atmosphere and making sure grandma,
[46:45] grandpa, mom and dad, and others are
[46:47] greeted by familiar faces. Like, can you
[46:49] hurry up?
[46:50] >> The facts are the facts. Everything else
[46:52] is fiction. The narrative that
[46:54] everything is just fine before Tina
[46:56] Fosski arrived is an illusion. It's time
[46:59] to acknowledge that Tina Fosski is not
[47:01] the problem and the init and the issues
[47:03] that she's working to remedy have
[47:05] nothing to do with her management. You
[47:07] know, and we know these problems existed
[47:10] long before she arrived on the scene,
[47:12] and it's time to support her in her
[47:14] quest to address them rather than make
[47:16] her the scapegoat for these
[47:18] long-standing deficiencies.
[47:28] » She didn't know it was going to be
[47:29] exciting out there. Sorry about that.
[47:31] Um, I just wanted to say that, um, we
[47:33] all agree on many parts of this bill. We
[47:36] agree on the advisory board. Excuse me.
[47:38] >> You won't identify yourself.
[47:40] >> Oh, I'm sorry. County Executive Julie
[47:41] Gerardano. Thank you, Mr. Atkins.
[47:44] >> Um, so we agree on many parts of this
[47:45] bill. We agree on the advisory board. We
[47:48] agree on the nursing or that the nursing
[47:49] home needs to work with the board and
[47:51] that the board should meet once a month.
[47:53] We agree that any future administrator
[47:55] should go through the executive
[47:56] appointment and council confirmation.
[47:58] The county executive creating a
[48:01] personnel system by November 17th is a
[48:03] bit of a steep ask. However, the good
[48:05] news is that they already have a system
[48:06] in place that is being used and not to
[48:08] mention the state and federal uh
[48:10] regulations that they must follow. But
[48:12] my two biggest concerns and they've been
[48:14] actually brought up here is that uh
[48:16] number one, this council being able to
[48:17] terminate the administrator with just a
[48:19] 5 to2 vote with no checks and balances
[48:22] that violates our charter. And I'm
[48:23] asking that the council amend uh that
[48:26] part of the bill. And number two, just a
[48:29] quick question and I'm hoping in your
[48:30] discussions that you're able to answer
[48:32] this. Uh there's a part of the bill that
[48:34] I had some questions about. Wakamako
[48:36] County shall hold and operate the
[48:38] Wakamako nursing home because this
[48:41] raises some questions. If the county
[48:43] operates the nursing home, who is
[48:45] legally the operator? The nursing home
[48:47] entity, the county executive, the county
[48:49] administration, or the county government
[48:51] collectively? Does that language affect
[48:54] who is considered the employer of the
[48:56] nursing home employees? Does it affect
[48:58] county responsibility for contracts,
[49:01] procurement, personnel decisions,
[49:03] insurance, claims, or liability? Are you
[49:05] willing to take that on? Does it affect
[49:08] whether the nursing home employees
[49:09] become subject to county personnel
[49:11] policies? Does it affect whether the
[49:13] nursing home revenues and expenditures
[49:15] now become county governmental funds?
[49:18] Does it affect the nursing home's
[49:19] existing corporate or organizational
[49:21] status? Those are questions I would like
[49:24] answered before the council enacts this
[49:26] legislation because the legal
[49:28] consequences of declaring that the
[49:30] county shall operate the county shall
[49:32] operate a licensed healthc care facility
[49:35] could extend beyond what the council
[49:37] says it intends. A stronger way to
[49:40] describe this provision. The legislation
[49:42] does not merely acknowledge that
[49:43] Wakamako County owns the nursing home.
[49:46] It affirmatively states that in county
[49:48] law that Wakamako County shall operate
[49:50] it while simultaneously creating a
[49:52] statutory structure governing its
[49:54] administrator personnel reporting and
[49:56] oversight. If the council contends that
[49:59] this does not fundamentally change the
[50:00] nursing home's relationship with the
[50:02] county government, then council should
[50:04] explain exactly what legal effects the
[50:06] words shall operate are intended to
[50:08] have. We are very concerned about the
[50:10] legal ramifications that this bill will
[50:12] bring and in hopes that this council
[50:14] would not leave a legal mess for the
[50:16] next council. If the bill stays as is,
[50:18] it has been recommended by the decadel
[50:20] long county attorney to veto this bill.
[50:23] So, I really hope that you are willing
[50:24] to make those changes, especially the 5
[50:26] to2 removal. Um, and if you could
[50:28] explain to the public what exactly it
[50:31] means when we are taking over the
[50:32] operational aspect. Thank you.
[50:35] >> Thank you very much.
[50:38] Any other public comments?
[50:45] That concludes uh public comments for uh
[50:47] legislative bill 2026-11.
[50:51] Entertain a motion from council to
[50:53] approve. Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry.
[50:54] [clears throat] Legislative bill. Yeah.
[50:56] 11. Uh entertain a motion from council
[50:58] to approve legislative bill 202611.
[51:01] >> So moved.
[51:01] >> Second.
[51:02] >> Any discussion?
[51:04] I do know that um there are some um
[51:09] I know there are some uh proposed
[51:11] amendments that the council is um
[51:14] understands need to be addressed um
[51:16] after having discussions with our own
[51:18] legal counsel following the introduction
[51:20] of the legislative bill. Uh, one of
[51:23] those actually I think um uh addresses
[51:26] part of the concerns
[51:28] uh that were that were addressed or were
[51:31] um commented upon at the um at the
[51:35] podium earlier, but I'll open the floor
[51:37] up for any comments from council
[51:39] members.
[51:40] Josh,
[51:42] I guess I'll just start. I I uh took the
[51:45] opportunity to uh to go visit and tour
[51:47] the nursing home on Friday with
[51:50] Councilman Wyn and um you know it's not
[51:54] the first time I've toured or visited
[51:55] the facility. Um but I wanted to get
[51:58] down dig down a little bit more on you
[52:02] know on on the facility itself. So the questions at hand,
[52:08] who currently pays the the paychecks of
[52:11] the employees
[52:13] when that when I asked that question to
[52:16] the to the administrator, it was okay.
[52:19] Well, this is a nonprofit.
[52:23] Well, I still don't know the name of the
[52:25] nonprofit. There are I was a former, you
[52:28] know, I used to run a statewide
[52:30] nonprofit.
[52:31] uh a nonprofit
[52:33] typically has an executive director
[52:37] who then also has a board. So
[52:41] the current problem, the current
[52:42] challenge is is that the facility does
[52:45] not have a board.
[52:48] So the question of of uh we're kind of
[52:52] in this little this quasi uh this no
[52:55] man's land for an organization and this
[52:57] is why we've come to this position in
[53:00] which case the county owns the facility
[53:05] but the nonprofit
[53:07] that hasn't had a functioning board. I
[53:09] mean, I looked on the I looked up on the
[53:10] to see if on the state [snorts] website
[53:12] to actually see if they were still a uh
[53:14] functioning organization, and the only
[53:16] one that I saw listed, which I still
[53:17] don't know the name of the nonprofit,
[53:18] but the currently the one that I saw
[53:19] listed has been defunct for for years.
[53:22] So, the question of who actually uh
[53:25] who's the board that is running the
[53:27] facility?
[53:29] Then the other question then is well,
[53:31] what is the the county's involvement?
[53:34] So, is this fully a county facility
[53:36] where this is a county department and we
[53:39] own operate a nursing home or is this a
[53:43] situation where there's a board the
[53:46] county just owns the facility? I say all
[53:48] that to get to the point of, you know, I
[53:50] asked this question before is uh where
[53:52] is the strategic plan for the Wcomo
[53:56] Nursing Home and I don't think there is
[53:57] one. When was the last time that there
[54:00] was a the the Y Comic Nursing Home was
[54:04] put into our capital improvement plan,
[54:06] our CIP? I I don't can't even remember
[54:09] that the facility is clearly dated. Has
[54:12] not been I think the last wing uh what
[54:15] was it James was 1974 or something like
[54:18] that was the last time that that was put
[54:20] in.
[54:21] >> Um I was born in 1982 and I'm I'm I'm
[54:24] turning 44 in a couple in less than a
[54:26] month.
[54:27] Uh clearly there needs to be dramatic
[54:30] upgrades. It's and somebody needs to be
[54:33] responsible. The problem here is the
[54:34] reason why we've gotten to this point is
[54:36] that we are in this no man's land of
[54:38] well it's not quite ours and it's not
[54:40] quite theirs. So there that's what puts
[54:43] forth the leadership gap. What we're
[54:45] trying to do here today is uh is to put
[54:48] oversight where it should have been for
[54:50] a while. There should be a board if
[54:52] there if that's once again this this
[54:54] gets back to the if there is a board
[54:56] then there if there is a nonprofit and
[54:58] that's the one that is running and
[54:59] operating then there should be a board
[55:01] around them. So the county is moving in
[55:03] the direction to put forth a basically a
[55:06] commission. Now a commission let me mind
[55:08] you a commission is not a board
[55:11] and uh you know there I think Wcomo
[55:13] currently has I was looking up on our
[55:14] website we have uh 13 current
[55:16] commissions and some of these are just
[55:18] advisory commissions. the Commission on
[55:20] Aging, you know, the um Commission on
[55:21] Women. There's a there's different ones.
[55:23] Liquor license board commissioners,
[55:24] there's there's different types, but the
[55:27] question of well, how many of those
[55:29] commissions and well, let me back up.
[55:31] Some are actually commissions, some are
[55:33] committees, some are, you know, other groups that we have each one of
[55:37] these functions in different ways. But
[55:39] what we're trying to do here is just to
[55:41] put oversight and very quickly put
[55:43] oversight into this situation because
[55:45] it's needed. But,
[55:48] you know, we're only going to a couple
[55:49] of us are only here for most of us here
[55:51] are only here for a couple more meetings
[55:52] and and then there's going to be a new
[55:53] county council and maybe a new county
[55:55] executive. Uh, but we need to at some
[55:59] point in time, we've got to get to the
[56:01] point where we clearly understand where
[56:03] is this facility going, how is it
[56:05] getting there? We need to be able to
[56:07] have a specific organization who can
[56:09] take state and federal funds to have
[56:12] capital improvements. And, you know,
[56:14] I've watched it eight years. It looks it
[56:16] does look different than it did, you
[56:17] know, when I did my first dramatic the
[56:19] first big tour when I joined the county
[56:21] council 8 years ago, the facility
[56:22] definitely looks dated. Uh they the
[56:26] staff has been doing an extremely
[56:28] incredible job keeping the facility up.
[56:31] And yeah, and everyone who ever says,
[56:32] "Oh, you never have a smell." That's
[56:34] totally true. You've every time I've
[56:35] ever been there, including, you know,
[56:38] the many visits in between uh when I
[56:40] first started, I've never had you never
[56:42] had a smell or an issue like that. So, I
[56:44] guess I guess I I want to open up and
[56:46] just put us all on level set ground as
[56:48] to how do we get to where we need to go?
[56:51] And that is um you know, is that going
[56:54] to be the commission? Are we once again
[56:57] taking time to blur two different things
[56:59] and is that going to get us to the
[57:01] outcome that we want to get?
[57:04] I don't know. But at least this is a
[57:06] first step and saying, "Hey, we need to
[57:08] take action. It needs to we clearly need
[57:10] to be able to get write this ship and
[57:13] make sure that this gem of a facility
[57:16] that we all have loved and respected and
[57:18] know people I guarantee most folks even
[57:20] you know I know my former neighbors in
[57:21] there now and um loved him to death just
[57:23] a wonderful human being. I want to make
[57:25] sure that all these folks uh and
[57:27] including our loved ones who are there
[57:29] uh um have the facility that they uh
[57:33] that they deserve. And right now with no
[57:36] plan in place as to how we are getting
[57:38] capital improvements and what that
[57:41] operation looks like, uh we're not we're
[57:43] doing them an injustice by not by not
[57:46] taking action. So uh today we've got a
[57:49] series of uh of motions to try to put
[57:52] together a commission that'll actually
[57:53] advance it. But this is only a step
[57:56] forward, but this is not where this is
[57:58] not going to get us to where we need to
[58:00] go with regard to, you know, getting
[58:02] state and federal investment into
[58:04] facilities and and to get into and
[58:06] getting more public investment into
[58:07] this. So, I just want to, Mr. President,
[58:10] just wanted to level set just make sure
[58:11] everyone understands where we're at. And
[58:12] I hope that we can continue to move
[58:14] forward and I hope that the new council
[58:16] and new if there's another executive
[58:17] coming in um that you know that we uh
[58:21] whoever is there that we continue to
[58:22] move this forward and that we have a
[58:24] plan in place and that we can you know
[58:26] in 10 and 15 years from now we can look
[58:28] and make sure that this is not just a
[58:30] four-star facility but a fivestar
[58:32] facility.
[58:36] » Um
[58:37] so thanks everybody for coming out. I've
[58:40] got a question and I guess for either
[58:42] Paul and Steve maybe both either one of
[58:45] you if you want to come forward.
[58:47] >> Come forward.
[58:48] >> Yeah.
[58:48] >> I and I don't know if you can answer it
[58:50] but you can relay the message anyway.
[58:52] >> Okay. [laughter]
[58:57] » So back in 20.
[59:00] >> Oh I'm sorry. Yeah.
[59:02] >> Paul Wilbur County attorney.
[59:04] >> Steve Lake assistant director of
[59:05] administration. So, I took the
[59:07] opportunity to go back to 2018 and I
[59:10] think Paul, you were you were the county
[59:12] attorney at the time.
[59:14] >> Um,
[59:16] and we had that meeting. It was about an
[59:18] hour and a half. And, [snorts] um, one
[59:21] of the recommendations that came up
[59:23] during that meeting was to have a
[59:25] committee or a commission. And Wayne
[59:27] Straussburg was the
[59:30] county administrator at the time. and we
[59:32] never took a solid vote on it, but it
[59:34] was pretty much a consensus that we
[59:37] would have, you know, that they would
[59:39] move forward with a commission. Now, a
[59:42] lot a lot of things happened at that
[59:44] time. Uh, Mr. Culver got ill. Uh, we
[59:47] lost him. Um, John Pota came in as the
[59:50] intern um, county executive. Um, so I
[59:55] guess you can say the ball got dropped
[59:57] and nothing moved forward on that. But
[1:00:00] when the county executive got elected,
[1:00:04] she hired Wayne Straussburg as a
[1:00:06] consultant and paid I think it was
[1:00:08] $52,000 a year if the information's been
[1:00:11] furnished to me correctly.
[1:00:14] And you can't answer this question, but
[1:00:16] I guess the county exe was this county
[1:00:18] executive could was this issue about a
[1:00:21] nursing home ever brought up by Mr.
[1:00:23] Straussburg
[1:00:24] for this $52,000 we paid him as being a
[1:00:27] consultant? I mean, I would like that
[1:00:30] question.
[1:00:31] >> Yeah, we can transfer that question and
[1:00:34] ask it, but I don't know.
[1:00:35] >> So, there was never any. You don't Mr.
[1:00:37] Lincoln, you don't recall. Uh, Mr.
[1:00:39] >> Mr. Alway, as you know, I've only been
[1:00:41] here 15 months. So, during the time that
[1:00:44] I've been here, I have not had that
[1:00:46] conversation with Mr. Stman.
[1:00:47] >> Yeah. I mean I I would I would think is
[1:00:49] hiring as a consultant and paying and I
[1:00:52] don't know how many how much that was an
[1:00:54] hour but um one of the things that would
[1:00:57] have been um
[1:01:00] as a consultant that had been the county
[1:01:03] uh administrator he would had firsthand
[1:01:06] knowledge of all some of the issues that
[1:01:08] were going on in the county and that
[1:01:10] would have probably come up because
[1:01:11] we've heard we've heard about um
[1:01:17] I
[1:01:18] And I I'm not going to put words in the
[1:01:19] county executive's mouth because I don't
[1:01:20] know if I heard her say this, but it's
[1:01:22] pretty much known that we didn't really
[1:01:23] think we had any problems out there. We
[1:01:25] thought everything was running along
[1:01:26] pretty good until, you know, I guess we
[1:01:29] had change in leadership. And so anyway,
[1:01:33] um
[1:01:33] >> may I address that for a minute? Sure.
[1:01:35] So the reason that we have not reported
[1:01:38] any problems is because no problems were
[1:01:40] ever made known to the administration
[1:01:43] and and contrary to the assertions of
[1:01:45] some uh the administration did meet with
[1:01:48] the former administrator on a quarterly
[1:01:50] basis and nothing was ever raised at
[1:01:53] that point. And so it's our contention,
[1:01:55] as I've said now on two occasions, that
[1:01:58] a lot of these things, whether it's uh
[1:02:01] findings by the state, whether it's
[1:02:03] financial issues and other deficiencies,
[1:02:06] uh they were all kept out of plain view
[1:02:08] and swept under the carpet. So when we
[1:02:10] would ask the question of the former
[1:02:12] administrator, how's it going? We would
[1:02:14] always get the response, things are
[1:02:16] great, you don't need to worry about
[1:02:17] anything. We're good to go.
[1:02:19] >> Okay. All right. I I understand that.
[1:02:20] And you know, I've been sitting here
[1:02:22] since 2006 and
[1:02:26] you know, we had these issues back in
[1:02:28] 200 um 18 when we had that meeting and
[1:02:32] um they popped up and then they
[1:02:33] disappeared and like I say, there was
[1:02:35] probably good excuses for that because
[1:02:37] of the change in leadership. Um but um
[1:02:42] anyway um there's been a there was asked
[1:02:44] at the podium today about um the
[1:02:47] committee or commission. Um
[1:02:53] I'm going to make an amendment or some
[1:02:55] maybe somebody else wants to. It doesn't
[1:02:57] matter that we do change that 49-2 to
[1:03:00] give some teeth to the committee.
[1:03:03] um putting a committee in a place that
[1:03:05] has no teeth to it that no power um
[1:03:10] if they meet once a month or twice a
[1:03:12] month and you know they're not happy
[1:03:14] with the county um with the leadership
[1:03:17] at the nursing home but there's nothing
[1:03:18] they can do about it. um if they can
[1:03:20] make a re recommendation for dismissal
[1:03:24] if that's what they feed feel fe feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feels
[1:03:26] need need to be done or if they can
[1:03:27] recommend something to be done, it'll
[1:03:30] give them more um more power. So I'll
[1:03:33] try to make that amendment when we go. I
[1:03:35] see we have a list of other amendments.
[1:03:37] Um so anyway, thank you. That's all I
[1:03:40] have.
[1:03:41] >> Okay.
[1:03:41] >> Yeah. Hold on. Hold on.
[1:03:43] >> Yeah, Paul, question for you. Um,
[1:03:46] currently right now, if something was to
[1:03:49] happen at our nursing home, tragic, just
[1:03:51] not I don't want to go into detail, but
[1:03:53] if anything happens, who's liable for
[1:03:56] that? Would that be the nursing home or
[1:03:58] would that be the county as a whole?
[1:04:00] Because I don't really know right now if
[1:04:03] the county owns the we own the property
[1:04:06] at the nursing home, but we don't own
[1:04:08] the operation of the nursing home. And
[1:04:11] that's that's my question. And I'm still
[1:04:13] learning that because just on Friday we
[1:04:15] found out that they do their taxes as a
[1:04:17] nonprofit and I went and looked at their
[1:04:19] application and it says Wakcomo Nursing
[1:04:22] Home about county at all. And that's my concern is I don't know if
[1:04:28] we're making legislation that
[1:04:31] might be we might be jumping the gun on
[1:04:33] this is is my question. Now I'm all
[1:04:35] about let's set up an advisory board or
[1:04:37] commission or something to get something
[1:04:39] started. But my concern is is if we take
[1:04:42] if we start putting Wakamiggo County
[1:04:44] Nursing Home in legislation and
[1:04:47] something happens and a lawyer sees this
[1:04:49] and says, "Okay, well, this is a county
[1:04:51] entity. Well, we're going to put them on
[1:04:52] the hook as well with any liabilities."
[1:04:55] Um, that's my concern right now. And I I
[1:04:58] just want to make sure that we get this
[1:05:00] straight now because, you know, if we
[1:05:04] figure out we have to fix this months
[1:05:06] from now and if something happens like
[1:05:08] in a in a month or so, who's liable? Cuz
[1:05:11] the county right now, if we pass this
[1:05:13] the way it says
[1:05:15] now, it's a county entity and according
[1:05:18] to this legislation, we're taking
[1:05:21] ownership of it. Now, are we going to be
[1:05:23] liable? That's my question.
[1:05:25] Well, that's a good question and I think
[1:05:28] uh Josh actually started hitting it on
[1:05:31] the head with his comments that the
[1:05:34] nursing home has been there since 1972
[1:05:38] as an entity we'll call it uh of the
[1:05:42] county.
[1:05:43] >> Um
[1:05:45] one of the things that I think we need
[1:05:47] to do is to define
[1:05:50] much more than it can be done today. Uh
[1:05:53] what is the relationship between the
[1:05:56] county and that nursing home? Uh it is
[1:06:00] not clear. Uh
[1:06:03] >> now would this be making it more clear
[1:06:04] that it's a county entity? That is my
[1:06:07] recommendation for the future that we
[1:06:10] figure this out that is it going to be a
[1:06:14] nonprofit corporation
[1:06:17] which the county will own the building
[1:06:19] and the land and then there will be a
[1:06:22] nonprofit corporation that would operate
[1:06:24] the nursing home or is it going to be
[1:06:28] just we'll say essentially a department
[1:06:30] of Wcomako County? You ask the question,
[1:06:34] if someone were to sue for an event
[1:06:38] today,
[1:06:40] they would probably sue Wakcomo County,
[1:06:43] >> right?
[1:06:43] >> Because there is no uh state recognized
[1:06:48] entity called the Wagamo County Nursing
[1:06:51] Home.
[1:06:52] >> Yeah.
[1:06:52] >> That that just doesn't exist.
[1:06:55] >> Mr. A little question. Um I believe in a transaction you sent a letter you
[1:06:59] sent to us. You were talking about the
[1:07:01] deadline as far as uh appointing the
[1:07:03] board. Um what I could you clarify for
[1:07:06] the council and the public what the um
[1:07:10] deadline is or the self-imposed deadline
[1:07:12] is is for appointing a board for the
[1:07:14] executive making recommendations.
[1:07:16] I believe your letter stated it was
[1:07:18] November 17th. I was trying to get a
[1:07:19] clarification.
[1:07:20] >> Yeah. Right. What I was suggesting, we
[1:07:22] could make this regular legislation
[1:07:24] instead of emergency legislation, which
[1:07:28] if both the council and the executive
[1:07:31] signed tomorrow, then 60 days later,
[1:07:34] it's effective. I believe your your
[1:07:37] letter did state that the executive was
[1:07:40] uh
[1:07:42] was with the understanding that that uh
[1:07:44] that she would present these names to
[1:07:47] this body by November 17th in your
[1:07:49] letter. Correct. That that is correct.
[1:07:51] If if this were regular legislation,
[1:07:54] >> why would there be an if? I mean, we we
[1:07:56] both agree that a board is essential.
[1:07:59] Why would it what what what difference
[1:08:01] would it make whether it was emergency
[1:08:02] or non-emergency legislation?
[1:08:04] >> Let's go down the different paths.
[1:08:06] [clears throat]
[1:08:07] Uh if it's emergency, then she does have
[1:08:11] the right to veto.
[1:08:14] Good.
[1:08:15] >> And then you have the right to override
[1:08:18] the veto.
[1:08:20] and that is when it would become
[1:08:22] officially effective. Now, that would
[1:08:24] probably be sometime in later October
[1:08:27] that that process would play out. If you
[1:08:31] don't start looking for members of the
[1:08:34] commission until later October, it
[1:08:37] probably doesn't that process doesn't
[1:08:40] get concluded by November 17th, the
[1:08:44] second meeting.
[1:08:45] >> [snorts]
[1:08:45] >> So, it's a bit of a contradiction in
[1:08:46] terms to say that um uh recommendations
[1:08:49] should be made by November 11th, but
[1:08:51] then to uh self-impose a delay purposely
[1:08:57] and drag the whole process out. I just
[1:09:00] was trying to get some understanding
[1:09:02] that we both were in in agreement that
[1:09:04] the November 17th was offered as a
[1:09:07] deadline to get the uh board appointed
[1:09:10] as soon as possible for the community. I
[1:09:12] don't care at the council and and
[1:09:13] executive for the community.
[1:09:15] >> Well, what I tried to express in that
[1:09:17] letter was
[1:09:20] November 17th is a possible date when
[1:09:24] that process of appointing the
[1:09:26] commission could be completed when you
[1:09:28] have your second meeting in November.
[1:09:31] >> There would not be actually it would be
[1:09:32] even easier for the executive to meet
[1:09:34] that deadline if we pass it today as
[1:09:36] emergency legislation.
[1:09:38] >> Yeah. and and excuse me.
[1:09:41] And and there is no veto.
[1:09:45] >> Yeah. If if there were no veto, but as
[1:09:48] you've heard, she she has reservations
[1:09:51] about a couple of provisions in Just
[1:09:52] want to make sure there's nothing
[1:09:53] disingenuous here because if you say
[1:09:55] you'd like to have the appointment,
[1:09:57] if you don't mind, if you don't mind,
[1:09:59] >> if you don't if you if you state that
[1:10:01] it's going to be by November 17th, that
[1:10:03] there's going to be a deadline and
[1:10:04] everybody [clears throat] would like
[1:10:05] that to happen and then to put some type
[1:10:07] of a qualifier in there that oh, only
[1:10:13] if it's not emergency legislation. I I I
[1:10:15] don't get the hypocrisy in that.
[1:10:16] >> Right. Before I was cut off, I was
[1:10:19] trying to get into like the HR of the
[1:10:22] county versus the HR of the nursing
[1:10:24] home. So, when I went in there, I got to
[1:10:27] see the book for the nursing home on the
[1:10:30] handbook, and it is that thick. It's thicker than the King James Bible
[1:10:35] is what I've been quoted.
[1:10:38] Our HR department cannot even handle
[1:10:41] with the nursing home HR. And that's why
[1:10:43] they are supposed to have their own HR
[1:10:45] department. And this is what I'm trying
[1:10:48] to get at. It's not that I don't want a
[1:10:50] commission. I absolutely want a
[1:10:51] commission. I want an advisory board. I
[1:10:52] actually want them to have their own
[1:10:54] board of directors. [snorts] I want them
[1:10:55] to be more independent to be able to
[1:10:58] decide things for themselves. But the
[1:11:00] question is is if we go ahead and and
[1:11:02] pass legislation tonight to make it a
[1:11:04] county entity, then what's that going to
[1:11:07] do to our HR department? We don't even
[1:11:09] have qualified people to uh to to hire
[1:11:12] anyone at the nursing home because then
[1:11:14] we would be liable for the hiring right
[1:11:17] now. We don't have like they had to
[1:11:20] something happened with they have an HR
[1:11:21] department. No one's in there and that's
[1:11:23] why Miss Cory's there right now. They
[1:11:25] have a payroll department and they make
[1:11:28] paychecks that are directly from the
[1:11:29] nursing home, not from Wycom County. And
[1:11:32] this is going to blur the lines even
[1:11:35] more. And I I I I I wish I hope we can
[1:11:40] maybe come to consensus that we can pass
[1:11:42] a commission tonight or today and maybe table some of this so that like
[1:11:49] the the uh hiring and firing of
[1:11:51] personnel because I don't want to get us
[1:11:54] confused on what's a county entity and
[1:11:56] what's a what's the nonprofit entity of
[1:11:58] the nursing home because if we can get
[1:12:01] those confused then like I said if
[1:12:03] something happens if if someone walks
[1:12:05] out of that a nursing home gets run over
[1:12:07] by a car. God forbid that ever. No, we
[1:12:09] don't want that happening. But if that
[1:12:11] did happen, who's liable? Is it the
[1:12:14] county at a whole? Would that be a $3
[1:12:16] million lawsuit that the county
[1:12:18] taxpayers are have to take on or is that
[1:12:20] something that the nonprofit entity
[1:12:22] would take on? The these are big
[1:12:24] concerns here and this legislation here
[1:12:26] could be a pinnacle point on what the
[1:12:28] future is for that nursing home. And we
[1:12:30] need to be very thoughtful on that. And
[1:12:32] I know we are rushed to get to a
[1:12:34] decision here today, but we need to be
[1:12:36] thoughtful before we go ahead and pull
[1:12:38] the trigger on on um on making it a
[1:12:41] county department or an entity or an
[1:12:43] agency. Right now,
[1:12:45] >> Benson,
[1:12:46] >> I just make two points.
[1:12:48] >> Thank you. Um, under section 508 of the
[1:12:51] county charter, the county executive can
[1:12:53] appoint designated uh can appoint for
[1:12:56] designated periods uh one or more
[1:12:58] advisory boards for the citizens of the
[1:13:00] county. Um, so the county executive has
[1:13:03] authority to have appointed the board
[1:13:05] for the nursing home. Um, and it's
[1:13:08] already in law. She could have appointed
[1:13:10] the board six weeks ago. She could have
[1:13:11] appointed in 2023. She hasn't done it.
[1:13:14] So the that that the [clears throat]
[1:13:17] fact this legislation isn't needed to
[1:13:21] have her appoint a board, but she hasn't
[1:13:24] appointed a board. So the legislation's
[1:13:26] here to require a board to be appointed.
[1:13:28] That's the first point. Second, in
[1:13:30] answer to Mr. winds question. Um, in 20
[1:13:34] in 1972, the
[1:13:37] uh county adopted the county council
[1:13:40] then in place uh passed a resolution or
[1:13:44] ordinance and it said in that resolution
[1:13:47] that the county is authorized and
[1:13:49] empowered to acquire um uh the nursing
[1:13:53] home and to maintain and operate the
[1:13:55] nursing home. That's what it said in
[1:13:57] 1972.
[1:13:59] Um that that code that legislative bill
[1:14:03] was put in code codified uh in 19 in
[1:14:07] 2006 when the executive went in uh came
[1:14:10] into being in Wamco County. The then
[1:14:14] county council uh removed that codified
[1:14:18] section from the county code. There is
[1:14:20] currently no mention in either the
[1:14:22] charter or the code of the Wcomu County
[1:14:25] uh nursing home. Um, so we're in a area
[1:14:29] where we don't have any guidance in
[1:14:30] writing as to what the relationship is
[1:14:32] between the county um and the nursing
[1:14:35] home. That being said, uh I found out
[1:14:40] yesterday that in 2020 in 2020, the then
[1:14:45] nursing home administrator executed a
[1:14:48] contract um for medical testing at the
[1:14:52] nursing home. Um that contract ended up
[1:14:56] in a lawsuit being filed for over
[1:14:59] $500,000.
[1:15:01] And in that lawsuit, the plaintiff sued
[1:15:05] and the only defendant that they sued
[1:15:07] was Wakcomo County, not the nursing
[1:15:10] home, Wakcomo County. Um and in uh the
[1:15:14] complaint that was filed, the com the
[1:15:17] plaintiff in that case asserted that the
[1:15:20] defendant owns and operates the nursing
[1:15:22] home. owns and operates their nursing
[1:15:24] home. Um, [clears throat] and the law
[1:15:28] department defended that lawsuit and in
[1:15:31] the uh answer that the law department
[1:15:33] filed, they admitted that Wakamo County
[1:15:36] owns and operates the nursing home. So,
[1:15:39] the law department admits that that and
[1:15:41] says that the nur nursing home is owned
[1:15:43] and operated by nurs.
[1:15:47] the law department and the executive
[1:15:49] settled that lawsuit without notice to
[1:15:51] the W County to the Wakano County
[1:15:54] Council. Um, but they settled it for
[1:15:57] $400,000.
[1:15:59] >> Why is it that Sorry, but why is it that
[1:16:01] when they do their finish? Did you
[1:16:03] finish? I'm sorry.
[1:16:03] >> So, in answer to Mr. win's question.
[1:16:06] There's no question that W if in his
[1:16:08] scenario if somebody if a catastrophic
[1:16:12] event occurred at the nursing home it
[1:16:14] would be Wcomo County and the citizens
[1:16:16] of Wcomo County that would be liable for
[1:16:19] that damage and that's what has already
[1:16:22] been admitted by the law department in law in this lawsuit. It may have been
[1:16:26] admitted in other lawsuits. I don't know
[1:16:27] about other lawsuits. Um because if one
[1:16:31] tries to find um if you go in and look
[1:16:35] up lawsuits for Wam against Wakamako
[1:16:38] County, there literally are thousands
[1:16:40] um for Wamo County and if it doesn't
[1:16:44] mention the nursing home, you can't find
[1:16:47] any you you can't locate those uh cases.
[1:16:51] This one we found indirectly. Um so the
[1:16:55] bottom line is unfortunately Wamo County
[1:16:58] already operates the nursing home. Wcomo
[1:17:00] county is already liable for everything
[1:17:02] that happens at the nursing home. If
[1:17:04] there is a contract that is defaulted on
[1:17:07] by the nursing home, it is Wcomo County
[1:17:09] and the taxpayers of Wcomo County who
[1:17:11] will be sued for that have already been
[1:17:13] sued for it and have have had liability
[1:17:16] on it. Um so it's an unfortunate
[1:17:19] situation. Um the reality is that as
[1:17:24] this this situation with the nursing
[1:17:28] home has come forward in the last 6
[1:17:29] weeks, the more information that we find
[1:17:36] it's a situation where Wakcom County has
[1:17:39] been extremely lucky for 50 years. The
[1:17:41] nursing home has operated for 50 years
[1:17:43] and there haven't been any significant
[1:17:45] problems in those 50 years. Mhm.
[1:17:47] >> But it's a matter of luck and the
[1:17:49] question is with Wcomo County going to
[1:17:51] go ahead for another 50 years and hope
[1:17:54] that they that the that the past is
[1:17:58] prologue and that we don't have any
[1:18:00] problems in the future. The this
[1:18:03] legislation is there to try to establish
[1:18:05] some um
[1:18:08] regular you know operating um facility
[1:18:12] or operating um method for the nursing
[1:18:16] home. And it is to to mandate that a a
[1:18:20] committee be established and then it is
[1:18:24] my presumption that that committee will
[1:18:25] go in and review the nursing home and
[1:18:28] make recommendations back to the county
[1:18:30] executive and the county executive about
[1:18:32] and the county council about what things
[1:18:34] should occur at that nursing home. And I
[1:18:38] have talked to Mr. Wilbur, and I agree
[1:18:40] fully that one of the things the county
[1:18:42] ought to look at is creating a
[1:18:45] nonprofit, non-stock corporation that
[1:18:48] owns the nursing home.
[1:18:50] >> Um, and the county would be the sole
[1:18:53] owner of that non-stock, non-county
[1:18:55] nursing home. But if you did that, the
[1:18:58] questions about who the employees are,
[1:19:01] they would work for the nonprofit
[1:19:03] corporation that would be created.
[1:19:06] There wouldn't be any questions to
[1:19:07] whether they're county employees or not
[1:19:09] county employees because right now we
[1:19:11] have a situation where as I understand
[1:19:14] it the county employees receive
[1:19:16] paychecks that are not county paychecks
[1:19:18] but when they retire they get county
[1:19:21] retirement funds.
[1:19:22] >> They're like half county employees and
[1:19:25] not half county employees. And if we in
[1:19:28] the future fix this, um, that would be
[1:19:32] wonderful, but it can't be fixed in the
[1:19:34] 6 weeks since this came up and this this
[1:19:37] problem was discovered. So, in answer to
[1:19:40] Mr. W's question, it's already being
[1:19:43] operated by the county. If there's a
[1:19:45] catastrophic event at the law at that
[1:19:48] location, the lawyers are already going
[1:19:50] to sue Wakcomo County. When they file
[1:19:53] suit against the nursing home over
[1:19:54] something, they serve Mr. Wilbur, they
[1:19:56] serve Julie Girardano. They serve Bunky
[1:19:59] Luffman. They don't serve the nursing
[1:20:00] home director. They are Wcomo County is
[1:20:04] the nursing home.
[1:20:06] >> That's it.
[1:20:08] >> Thank you. May I May I
[1:20:10] >> Jeff? No. Yes. Danny's got something.
[1:20:12] >> I'm going to read something first
[1:20:14] because the last time I open my big
[1:20:16] mouth, I went on a
[1:20:18] >> little
[1:20:20] >> meanness, I guess you want to call it.
[1:20:23] But I have to tell it like I feel that
[1:20:26] is I I'm supporting this emergency
[1:20:28] legislation
[1:20:30] um that involves the nursing home and um
[1:20:34] the when James brought up the HR
[1:20:37] department, they did have a HR
[1:20:40] department
[1:20:41] but it was outsourced
[1:20:44] and and also the faithful employees are
[1:20:47] leaving from fear of being fired that
[1:20:49] would cause them to lose their time,
[1:20:51] their vacation time whether it be a
[1:20:53] cruise
[1:20:55] Also, the First Amendment has been
[1:20:56] threatened by ordering a gag order to
[1:20:59] the employees if they open their mouth
[1:21:02] about the nursing home.
[1:21:04] The majority of the employees are people
[1:21:07] of color and women.
[1:21:11] What does that say about our county on
[1:21:14] the treatment of these employees?
[1:21:18] The question also arises why are county
[1:21:22] employees have any authority at the
[1:21:25] nursing home? But one of the questions
[1:21:27] has been asked by Mr. Benson. So what
[1:21:31] should have happened was the county
[1:21:34] executive when this issue came up the
[1:21:37] county executive should have met. We
[1:21:39] should requested a work session to come
[1:21:42] up with a plan instead of foreign people
[1:21:44] that's already in place. come up with
[1:21:46] some kind of strategic plan as Josh had
[1:21:48] talked about to see how we could
[1:21:52] straighten this out. But what you do,
[1:21:54] you you went in and fired people that
[1:21:56] worked their 18 years, uh 20 years, 10
[1:22:00] years, 5 years, who were dedicated
[1:22:03] employees.
[1:22:04] And instead of firing them should if you
[1:22:08] should have learned from them. And if it
[1:22:12] was any problems that were being that
[1:22:14] was being done wrong, saying human
[1:22:16] resources or finance, you should have
[1:22:18] helped them to correct it and train them
[1:22:21] on the procedures that you wanted the
[1:22:23] county to wanted wanted them to follow
[1:22:25] what the county said. But instead, you
[1:22:28] went in there and just caused a
[1:22:35] I say a a drastic change. just changed
[1:22:39] overnight. Foreign people. I almost
[1:22:41] thought it was Elon Musk in the in the um nursing home. Like Elon Musk
[1:22:48] came and just for everybody made it
[1:22:51] worse. It didn't make it better. And the
[1:22:53] question arise is
[1:22:56] the question I have now, the hope I have
[1:23:00] is that would bring back the family
[1:23:03] environment between the residents and
[1:23:06] the employees.
[1:23:08] And then um the last the I won't say
[1:23:12] lastly but the other the question I have
[1:23:14] for Mr. Lacken all this stuff that you
[1:23:17] said was swept under the under the rug
[1:23:20] and under it didn't do right.
[1:23:24] Where's the proof that you gave the
[1:23:26] county council? We have we I don't think
[1:23:29] we received any information about Have
[1:23:32] we received any information?
[1:23:33] >> Well, they did try to do a close session
[1:23:35] with us. I don't know if you remember
[1:23:36] that. I've heard the county executive
[1:23:38] department came to us in a close
[1:23:40] session.
[1:23:40] >> Yeah. But he didn't talk about the
[1:23:41] problems that we didn't have the
[1:23:43] documentation 30 minutes less than.
[1:23:45] >> Yeah. But what I'm saying is we needed
[1:23:47] the documentation, proof of the
[1:23:50] wrongdoing and who did it and what all
[1:23:53] this stuff that's been accused. See,
[1:23:54] we're talking about people being accused
[1:23:56] of stuff, but if you stand up there and
[1:23:57] say something was mismanaged or
[1:23:59] whatever, where is where why didn't we
[1:24:01] come before a council and say this is
[1:24:04] why we're doing such and s such thing?
[1:24:06] This is why we're over here. This is why
[1:24:08] they need training. But what you did,
[1:24:10] you the RNs have left. The maintenance
[1:24:13] man's left. The the the activist woman's
[1:24:16] left cuz she's scared. Been there 18
[1:24:18] years. So why are these people leaving
[1:24:21] if everything's fine? I quite sure the
[1:24:24] activities director is sweeping up the
[1:24:26] rug because she was wheeling people in
[1:24:28] and and help and activity. That's what
[1:24:30] I'm that's bottom line. But I'm not
[1:24:32] going to go on tangent cuz I'm getting
[1:24:33] mad right now. So lastly, I'm saying
[1:24:37] with this drastic change, the question
[1:24:41] is who is suffering?
[1:24:43] And the answer is the residents.
[1:24:46] That's the that is the that is who's
[1:24:48] suffering. Not the executive, not me,
[1:24:53] not the employ the employees are
[1:24:55] suffering because some of them have lost
[1:24:57] their job and on the employ un
[1:24:58] unemployment uh roles in in in case
[1:25:02] their their unemployment's being
[1:25:04] approved cuz some of the unemployment
[1:25:06] people not even getting their employ
[1:25:08] unemployment approved. So you're
[1:25:10] creating a hardship among the employees
[1:25:13] cuz it shows me you don't care about
[1:25:15] people. And that's what it's all about
[1:25:18] caring about people. And if you don't
[1:25:21] care about people, you don't need to be
[1:25:23] in this position. The politicians are
[1:25:26] supposed to be servants of the people.
[1:25:28] The county employees are supposed to be
[1:25:30] servants of the people because the
[1:25:31] taxpayers are paying your salary.
[1:25:34] And we're supposed to have compassion,
[1:25:37] not threaten, not threats. and all this
[1:25:40] kind of stuff to a people cuz they're
[1:25:42] human beings. They got the same heart,
[1:25:44] lungs, and everything that you have. You
[1:25:46] may have a little more than somebody
[1:25:48] else. You may have author authority.
[1:25:50] Only one in control is the Lord.
[1:25:52] [snorts] Remember that.
[1:25:55] The only one in control. So, somebody's
[1:25:58] looking down on how people are being
[1:26:00] treated.
[1:26:01] >> Yeah.
[1:26:02] >> And don't forget, karma is something.
[1:26:05] >> That's all I got to say. I I'm just
[1:26:07] going to state I think you did get
[1:26:08] emails on the um the problems that we
[1:26:11] were having at the
[1:26:12] >> Well, I want proof. I don't want email.
[1:26:14] >> No, no, they were in email.
[1:26:15] >> I want printed out and I wanted somebody
[1:26:17] to sit down and face me.
[1:26:20] >> Well, we tried to have another closed
[1:26:22] session.
[1:26:22] >> Well, you didn't have it. It didn't have
[1:26:24] >> Well, we went right to emergency
[1:26:25] legislation.
[1:26:25] >> So, you you already made your point.
[1:26:26] >> You're proving your point that you don't
[1:26:28] want to work with any
[1:26:28] >> I don't you haven't heard I heard your
[1:26:30] mouth. I'm I'm finished.
[1:26:32] >> Oh my god,
[1:26:33] >> Jeff.
[1:26:35] I just um with regards to the nonprofit
[1:26:38] thing, it was brought to my attention
[1:26:39] over the weekend that the uh nursing
[1:26:41] home was a nonprofit and I went through
[1:26:44] a rather enormous amount of paper um
[1:26:46] probably five times what Councilman Enis
[1:26:49] has sitting right there and I did find
[1:26:52] uh the uh EIN documentation that was
[1:26:55] sent to us a week or so ago where it was
[1:26:57] written by hand at the top of it.
[1:27:00] Nonprofit that that's not an official
[1:27:02] document. I don't know who wrote it. I
[1:27:05] That's the only thing I could find that
[1:27:06] references the nursing home as a
[1:27:08] nonprofit.
[1:27:09] So, we don't know what it is. It's not
[1:27:11] an agency. It's not a department. Um,
[1:27:15] it's got to be something.
[1:27:17] Employees don't work for the county.
[1:27:19] Paychecks aren't county paychecks.
[1:27:22] They enjoy paying into the county
[1:27:24] retirement plan. They get county health
[1:27:27] benefits.
[1:27:29] It's It's like it's in limbo. We have to
[1:27:32] fix this sooner the better. Not not in
[1:27:37] November. Sooner the better. It should
[1:27:39] have been fixed weeks ago. It could have
[1:27:41] been very easily fixed weeks ago if
[1:27:45] somebody had sent the council president
[1:27:46] or the council an email saying, "We got
[1:27:49] problems. We need to have a work session
[1:27:52] and work this out."
[1:27:54] >> That never happened. M
[1:27:57] >> as as usual, the council finds out from
[1:28:00] the public. I got almost three pages of
[1:28:04] council comments, so I'll save most of
[1:28:05] it for later. But, uh, [snorts] as
[1:28:08] usual, we find out from the public after
[1:28:10] the fire has not only been lit, it's
[1:28:12] raging,
[1:28:14] and we got to come in the room with two
[1:28:16] fire extinguishers.
[1:28:18] So, thank you all for coming today. Y
[1:28:22] >> um, some weeks ago and piggybacking on
[1:28:25] what, uh, Mr. Mayor just said we
[1:28:27] requested
[1:28:28] uh a copy of the W9 and the EIN and they
[1:28:32] were it was a separate EIN. It was in
[1:28:34] the name of Y Comic Nursing Home uh as
[1:28:37] was the as was the W9. But understand uh
[1:28:41] W9 has two things on it. It's the legal
[1:28:44] entity as well as uh tax and accounting.
[1:28:49] So uh and I followed up with this
[1:28:51] question. Never got an answer. What is
[1:28:53] the entity? So, I figured out the answer
[1:28:55] was there is none. There is no legal
[1:28:58] entity. And to Mr. Wilbur's point,
[1:29:00] everything and to Mr. Benson's as well,
[1:29:02] everything is going to fall back on the
[1:29:04] county and it already has. Uh so, uh
[1:29:07] there there's it seems to me there's
[1:29:09] three steps here. The first step is what
[1:29:11] we're going to do today and trying to
[1:29:13] take immediate action for real concerns.
[1:29:16] I'm I do not want to hear any more about
[1:29:19] that. These are false concerns. I've got
[1:29:21] a letter that I received yesterday and I
[1:29:22] may read some excerpts from it uh that I
[1:29:25] think are uh pretty descriptive of
[1:29:27] what's really been happening there and
[1:29:28] there there has been a lot of
[1:29:30] misinformation information flowing
[1:29:32] around. So this is step one to put a
[1:29:34] commission in place that will uh give
[1:29:37] some immediate oversight even though
[1:29:39] when I say immediate it's going to take
[1:29:40] some time and I'm glad that we are doing
[1:29:42] this as emergency. It's going to take
[1:29:43] some time before we actually see the
[1:29:45] results of that. That's step one. And
[1:29:47] now I'll say that may be like a
[1:29:49] band-aid. Uh, another step which you can
[1:29:52] start right away is to circle back.
[1:29:54] [laughter] What does this entity need to
[1:29:56] be? Do we need to set up a separate I
[1:29:58] think it probably does separate or uh uh
[1:30:01] entity and uh and then additionally
[1:30:04] what's the relationship with Y chemico
[1:30:06] from an operational standpoint? Uh is it
[1:30:09] a department? Um you know is it an
[1:30:12] enterprise fund? And my opinion is
[1:30:14] clearly it's not at this time.
[1:30:17] >> Uh and we also need to think about what
[1:30:19] is our commitment to keeping this gem of
[1:30:24] an institution that we've had for 54
[1:30:26] years together. I think that we've got
[1:30:28] some responsibility or at least I feel
[1:30:31] that way to continue this. And if you
[1:30:33] look at how much has been subsidized
[1:30:35] over 54 years and you put it on a yearly
[1:30:38] basis, it's not that much. Uh we spend
[1:30:41] $70 million on education. We spend $68
[1:30:44] million on public safety. Uh and this is
[1:30:47] a discussion. This is not a discussion
[1:30:48] that I'm going to uh I'm not going to
[1:30:50] make this point here. That that's my
[1:30:52] feelings about it. This is something we
[1:30:53] need collectively to look at. So step
[1:30:56] one, form the commission. Two, go back
[1:30:59] and we can do this simultaneously. Look
[1:31:01] at the organization.
[1:31:03] Step three, Josh mentioned something
[1:31:05] about uh no uh strategic plan. And
[1:31:09] there's also been mention about the
[1:31:11] November 20th, 2018 meeting, which I
[1:31:15] read in great detail, and I appreciate
[1:31:18] Mr. Holloway's comments back then, cuz
[1:31:21] when you got down to the end of reading
[1:31:22] it, some 20ome pages, he said, "So,
[1:31:26] we're going to get this committee
[1:31:27] together and look at the whole operation
[1:31:30] inclusive of renovation and what the
[1:31:33] cost might be." It was as if we were
[1:31:35] going to do a study back in 2018. M
[1:31:38] >> now here I am [laughter]
[1:31:41] >> eight years later reading this and it
[1:31:43] looked great except nothing else
[1:31:45] happened.
[1:31:47] >> Nobody knows the reason why and I do
[1:31:49] understand I think there were uh Joe you
[1:31:51] pointed out some other things were going
[1:31:52] on. Mr. Cer was passed away at that
[1:31:55] period of time.
[1:31:56] >> Um but that was an excellent snapshot of
[1:31:59] where the nursing home was then and I'm
[1:32:02] going to say it's probably not a whole
[1:32:04] lot different now. They got occupancy
[1:32:06] problems. They got financial issues. Um,
[1:32:10] you know, things like what's the break
[1:32:11] even occupancy number? How much cost
[1:32:14] cutting do you need if you've got ex uh
[1:32:16] occupancy?
[1:32:18] Needing bathrooms, all those things
[1:32:20] would be something, Josh, to your point,
[1:32:22] that would be rolled up into a strategic
[1:32:24] plan. So, I think that
[1:32:26] >> uh the long term is pick back up where
[1:32:30] we left off
[1:32:31] >> in 2018. Pick right back up,
[1:32:35] >> do do a study. I think the commission is
[1:32:37] a separate purpose. That's to give
[1:32:39] oversight, which is sorely needed. You
[1:32:41] know, I know we've talked about who's
[1:32:43] been visiting the nursing home and who
[1:32:45] has not. I admitted I have not. I did
[1:32:48] visit there when I was looking for a
[1:32:49] place or my myself and my uh siblings
[1:32:52] were looking for a place for my mom. So,
[1:32:54] I do know about it. Um and uh but that doesn't answer any questions.
[1:32:59] You've got to be boots on the ground and
[1:33:01] you've got to be involved with that
[1:33:02] place to know what's going on. And
[1:33:04] that's that's the purpose in my mind for
[1:33:05] the commission. So, um that would be
[1:33:08] what I would suggest. Uh three steps.
[1:33:10] The immediate, we've got to get our
[1:33:13] house in order on the legal entity side
[1:33:16] and to start a strategic plan. Uh
[1:33:18] picking right back up where the 2018 uh
[1:33:21] meeting left off.
[1:33:24] >> Thank you.
[1:33:25] >> Yeah, I think uh we don't want to
[1:33:26] overlook the obvious here. Um, you know,
[1:33:28] with all the spin in the rhetoric that
[1:33:30] we've been exposed to, you know, we've
[1:33:31] had 20 very valuable long-term employees
[1:33:34] now that have left in only a matter of
[1:33:36] weeks, maybe a matter of months. I think
[1:33:38] when you take a look at that, uh, you
[1:33:40] have a you have a problem.
[1:33:42] This is a situation where we've had a
[1:33:44] nursing home that was more than stable
[1:33:47] over the last 20 years. So when you see
[1:33:50] this kind of disruption, when you see
[1:33:52] this kind of mass exodus, I think there
[1:33:54] uh certainly is uh reason to act and to
[1:33:57] act as quickly as possible, especially
[1:33:59] when we're considering the most
[1:34:00] vulnerable citizens in our community who
[1:34:03] are at risk. I have a real problem with
[1:34:06] the fact that uh more so and more
[1:34:08] recently that we're talking about
[1:34:10] management and how we're going to, you
[1:34:12] know, the executive branch is talking
[1:34:13] about how they're going to independently
[1:34:15] address this situation and there really
[1:34:16] isn't a problem. But I do have a a a
[1:34:19] real concern that if there is no
[1:34:21] problem, I would reiterate what other
[1:34:23] people said today. Why do we have
[1:34:25] members of the administration
[1:34:27] administrative staff going in on a
[1:34:29] regular basis?
[1:34:31] And what I really have a problem with
[1:34:33] and it is not rather it is not a rumor.
[1:34:36] It is fact that you have individuals who
[1:34:39] are harassing the employees.
[1:34:42] That is without a a doubt a fact. And
[1:34:46] that is what concerns me more than
[1:34:48] anything. We're already in a very
[1:34:50] unstable environment. And the last thing
[1:34:53] I really want to do is see this become
[1:34:55] even more exacerbated. So if you think
[1:34:57] there's reason for uh if there's not
[1:34:59] reason for uh emergency legislation, I
[1:35:01] would hold you wrong. This needs to be
[1:35:03] done as soon as possible. These are the
[1:35:05] most vulnerable citizens in our county.
[1:35:08] So let's let's move forward if we could
[1:35:10] with the I know we have some amendments
[1:35:13] that are necessary.
[1:35:18] Start. Um Jeff, you have them?
[1:35:21] >> I do. I've got three.
[1:35:26] » Motion number one, addition of of the
[1:35:29] whereas clause. I make a motion to add
[1:35:32] the following as the fourth whereas
[1:35:34] paragraph whereas legislative bill 5 was
[1:35:38] codified as section 74 of the Wakcomo
[1:35:41] County Code. However, after the county
[1:35:43] executive form of government was adopted
[1:35:46] in Wakcomo County, the county council
[1:35:49] enacted bill number 206-11
[1:35:53] which amended the county code by
[1:35:55] deleting section 74.
[1:35:58] And
[1:36:00] so that is the first motion. Yes, these
[1:36:02] are housekeeping measures we're trying
[1:36:04] to address. Is there a second? Second.
[1:36:06] >> Any discussion? All those in favor say
[1:36:08] I. I.
[1:36:09] >> Opposed? Motion's carried.
[1:36:14] Okay.
[1:36:15] Uh motion number two, nursing home
[1:36:18] personnel system. I make a motion to
[1:36:20] amend section 49-3 by striking quote on
[1:36:25] or before November 17th, 2026 end quote
[1:36:29] and replacing it with quote with the
[1:36:32] fiscal year 2028 budget end quote. It's
[1:36:36] a motion.
[1:36:37] >> Second.
[1:36:39] >> Any discussion? All those in favor say
[1:36:41] I. I
[1:36:41] >> I
[1:36:42] >> opposed. Motion is carried. Both
[1:36:44] motions, by the way, were uh carried
[1:36:46] unanimously.
[1:36:49] » Okay. My third motion is appointment of
[1:36:51] commission members.
[1:36:53] I make a motion to amend section 49-5 to
[1:36:57] provide that the Wakcomo Nursing Home
[1:37:00] Commission shall consist of seven voting
[1:37:03] members who are appointed by the county
[1:37:05] executive and confirmed by the W the
[1:37:08] county council of Wakcomo County.
[1:37:11] Motion. Is there a second?
[1:37:12] >> Second.
[1:37:12] >> Discussion. All those in favor say I.
[1:37:15] >> I. Post.
[1:37:17] >> Motion. Motion passes unanimously.
[1:37:20] >> It's my turn.
[1:37:22] >> Okay.
[1:37:24] >> The fourth motion. I move to amend
[1:37:26] section 49-5 by striking quotation one
[1:37:30] of whom shall be the county uh county,
[1:37:33] excuse me, the county health officer and
[1:37:35] his his her designate
[1:37:39] unquote. and replacing it with quote uh one of whom shall be a resident
[1:37:43] family advocate.
[1:37:44] >> The motion's second.
[1:37:46] >> Second.
[1:37:46] >> Any discussion? I know this was a
[1:37:48] current concern of delegate sample
[1:37:50] Hughes and some others in the room.
[1:37:52] >> Motion second. Yes. M just I did get
[1:37:55] folks out a question of whether there
[1:37:57] should be a immediate family. I don't
[1:37:59] know if that really makes a difference
[1:38:01] in there, but at least the intent, you
[1:38:03] know, the I think some people are
[1:38:05] concerned like, oh, there's going to be
[1:38:06] someone who's like, oh, okay, my, you
[1:38:08] know, my third cousin is in there.
[1:38:11] >> Uh, they might.
[1:38:13] >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I I I figured I'd bring
[1:38:15] it up regardless. I don't have strong
[1:38:17] feelings on it, but I thought I told him
[1:38:18] I'd bring it to the council.
[1:38:21] >> You want to Are you asking that as as a
[1:38:23] amendment to the motion?
[1:38:24] >> I'll leave it to the uh to the
[1:38:26] individual asking the amendment. Uh, do
[1:38:28] you want to add it an immediate family
[1:38:30] advocate or not? Uh,
[1:38:31] >> I don't have immediate.
[1:38:33] >> Okay. I think let's just
[1:38:34] >> at least defer back to your comment that
[1:38:36] it's obvious.
[1:38:37] >> Good. Okay. [laughter]
[1:38:39] Then that is the intent and I'm go okay
[1:38:40] with it.
[1:38:41] >> Thanks, Josh.
[1:38:42] >> Uh, we have a motion to second. Is it
[1:38:44] correct? Any further discussion? All
[1:38:46] those in favor of the motion say I.
[1:38:49] >> Opposed? Motion's carried unanimously.
[1:38:52] >> Fifth motion. I move to add the
[1:38:54] following to section 49-5 after the list
[1:38:57] of commission members. The nursing home
[1:38:59] administrator shall be an exeicio member
[1:39:01] of the commission without the right to
[1:39:03] vote on commission matters.
[1:39:04] >> It's a motion. Is there a second?
[1:39:06] >> Second.
[1:39:06] >> Discussion.
[1:39:08] >> All those in favor say I.
[1:39:09] >> I. Opposed carried. Motion passes.
[1:39:13] >> The sixth. I move to amend section 495
[1:39:16] to provide that the chairperson and vice
[1:39:18] chairperson shall be elected from among
[1:39:20] the commission members with voting
[1:39:22] rights.
[1:39:23] >> Motion is there second. Discussion.
[1:39:26] >> All those in favor say I.
[1:39:27] >> Opposed.
[1:39:28] >> Motion is carried unanimously. Passes.
[1:39:31] >> John, I have one question about the uh
[1:39:33] motion for um for the resident family.
[1:39:37] if that member was to suddenly pass or
[1:39:40] what have you, um would that be an
[1:39:42] automatic replacement
[1:39:45] for that resident family uh on the uh
[1:39:48] committee?
[1:39:51] » Uh it's a good question. I I would guess
[1:39:53] Mr. Benson, would that be part of what
[1:39:55] the structure would have to be from that
[1:39:57] the commission would have?
[1:39:58] >> They have specified terms. They're there
[1:39:59] for two years. So I
[1:40:03] >> they're they you know, they're there.
[1:40:05] They're familiar with the family, the
[1:40:07] nursing home. They had family members
[1:40:09] there. So, I don't think that they would
[1:40:11] be immediately removed. No.
[1:40:16] » Sorry.
[1:40:17] >> Thank you, Mr. Penc.
[1:40:20] >> Where were we?
[1:40:21] >> Yeah.
[1:40:21] >> Yes.
[1:40:21] >> Seventh and the final. I move to amend
[1:40:23] section 49-6A
[1:40:26] and B to include the resident family
[1:40:28] advocate member.
[1:40:30] >> Motion's there. Second.
[1:40:31] >> Second.
[1:40:31] >> Discussion.
[1:40:33] >> All those in favor say I.
[1:40:34] >> I. I opposed.
[1:40:36] >> Motion passes unanimously. Just for the
[1:40:38] record, all seven motions were passed
[1:40:39] unanimously. Um, one uh question I have
[1:40:43] for the council is Mr. Venosa had made
[1:40:46] the uh recommendation. He had said that
[1:40:49] section 49-2D.
[1:40:52] It now states that the nursing home
[1:40:54] administrator shall fully cooperate and
[1:40:56] provide all reasonable information
[1:40:57] requested by the Wcomo Nursing Home
[1:40:59] Commission. he had suggested there
[1:41:02] should be uh an amendment there that
[1:41:04] would establish some type of a deadline.
[1:41:06] Um any recommendations or thoughts on
[1:41:08] that if at all?
[1:41:13] » Mr. President.
[1:41:14] >> Yes.
[1:41:14] >> So I guess the question there is it also
[1:41:16] is this uh
[1:41:20] are this involves uh the funds of the
[1:41:24] county. Does our internal auditor have
[1:41:26] the ability to access that information
[1:41:28] also? I think this is a situation where
[1:41:32] a circumstance develops and the
[1:41:34] commission goes to the administrator say
[1:41:36] could you tell us why the patient on you
[1:41:38] know in in whatever room this happened
[1:41:40] or that happened that the administrator
[1:41:42] would be responsible to get back to the
[1:41:44] commission would have to answer to the
[1:41:45] commission what Mr. Venosa was
[1:41:47] suggesting was that maybe we should say
[1:41:49] within a period of two weeks or within a
[1:41:51] reasonable amount of time what legal
[1:41:52] jargon Mr. expensive may be most
[1:41:55] suitable for this. Do we make it within
[1:41:57] a twoe period
[1:41:59] or by the next before the next maybe we
[1:42:01] could say before the next uh
[1:42:04] >> meeting?
[1:42:06] I mean you can put whatever you want in
[1:42:08] there. It's a practical problem and I
[1:42:11] mean I guess the question is what
[1:42:13] information are they asking for and is
[1:42:15] something that can be provided within
[1:42:17] two weeks and without knowing I don't
[1:42:20] know how you can answer that question.
[1:42:21] So
[1:42:23] I put in within a reasonable period of
[1:42:25] time the the
[1:42:26] >> that so I'm just looking for that
[1:42:28] legally binding term that would sort of
[1:42:29] expedite
[1:42:30] >> the point I think is that if the
[1:42:33] commission believes that the nursing
[1:42:36] home administrator is not providing the
[1:42:38] information the nursing home commission
[1:42:41] is reporting to the C executive and the
[1:42:43] county council and I assume that the
[1:42:46] commission would say the nursing home
[1:42:47] administrator has been requested to
[1:42:49] provide this information or not
[1:42:50] providing it. We need this information
[1:42:53] and if the nursing home administrator
[1:42:55] doesn't provide it, then the the
[1:42:58] executive andor the nursing county
[1:43:01] commission would have the authority to
[1:43:02] remove the com the administrator. So
[1:43:05] rather than having a time period, it is
[1:43:08] that it can be enforced if it's not
[1:43:11] provided.
[1:43:12] >> So it's just as enforceable as
[1:43:14] open-ended,
[1:43:15] >> I think so.
[1:43:16] >> Okay. All right. Just one or two make
[1:43:18] sure we address that. Any other um
[1:43:21] questions? I have one. Yes, Joe. You go
[1:43:23] ahead, James. You sure?
[1:43:24] >> Yeah. I'd like to make a motion, if it's
[1:43:26] okay, to uh strike the uh where is it?
[1:43:31] Sorry. Or the in 492,
[1:43:35] it says down at the bottom, county
[1:43:37] executive, and or the county council
[1:43:41] with the affirmative vote of five
[1:43:43] members of the county council shall have
[1:43:45] the authority to terminate the nursing
[1:43:46] home administrator. I would like to
[1:43:48] strike the um the county council with
[1:43:51] affirmative vote of five members of the
[1:43:53] county council uh shall have the
[1:43:56] authority to terminate the uh uh nursing
[1:44:00] home administrator. And that's a motion.
[1:44:02] >> There's a second.
[1:44:03] >> Second.
[1:44:04] >> Motion second. Any discussion?
[1:44:07] >> My thought of the whole thing is to make
[1:44:08] it more consistent with the um with the
[1:44:11] county form of government, the the
[1:44:13] county charter. Um everything else we
[1:44:15] have you have to we we can't remove
[1:44:19] directors.
[1:44:20] So
[1:44:21] >> any other discussion?
[1:44:23] >> All those in favor of the amendment say
[1:44:25] I
[1:44:25] >> I
[1:44:26] >> opposed.
[1:44:30] chairs opposed. Uh the amendment
[1:44:33] fails by a vote of five to two. Thank
[1:44:36] you. Uh Mr. I have I have an amendment
[1:44:38] what I mentioned before. Um, and I may
[1:44:40] need some help from Laura on this
[1:44:42] because I didn't have it prepared, but
[1:44:44] um that the um
[1:44:48] commission by majority vote can
[1:44:50] recommend
[1:44:52] this is in uh section 492 can recommend
[1:44:57] that the nursing home administrator can
[1:45:00] be um terminated.
[1:45:04] » Is that is that
[1:45:05] >> that's a motion.
[1:45:06] >> Okay, I'll second that.
[1:45:08] >> Just a second. Any discussion?
[1:45:09] >> My my question is is that in lie of
[1:45:12] having u the council or the executive
[1:45:16] having removal like they would have to
[1:45:18] recommend it for this.
[1:45:19] >> No, they wouldn't have to recommend it.
[1:45:21] But if they recommended it, action would
[1:45:23] have to take place.
[1:45:24] >> Okay. But what if they recommended
[1:45:26] against it?
[1:45:27] >> They wouldn't recommend against it. He's
[1:45:29] already got their job.
[1:45:30] >> I'm just saying like if they recommended
[1:45:32] to not remove the person. Well, does
[1:45:36] that uh if we move in that direction,
[1:45:37] then if I you know, if you were a county
[1:45:39] executive who did not want to face a
[1:45:42] situation where your person might not
[1:45:44] be, you know, might be removed,
[1:45:46] >> wouldn't you just then uh you know, pick
[1:45:49] people who are only going to go along
[1:45:52] with what you want?
[1:45:53] >> So, if we go forward in that direction,
[1:45:55] it could be that we don't get the
[1:45:56] qualified people per se. maybe they meet
[1:45:58] the general intent, but we get people
[1:46:00] who could uh be a little more um
[1:46:04] sympathetic to the
[1:46:05] >> I can go um I can go back on that story.
[1:46:08] Um that was tried at the um liquor
[1:46:10] dispensary a couple times when one of
[1:46:13] our prior um county executives appointed
[1:46:16] people to try to dismantle the liquor
[1:46:19] dispensary. once they were appointed um
[1:46:21] they found out how good the liquor
[1:46:23] dispensary was doing and how much money
[1:46:24] they were contributing to the county and
[1:46:26] they completely changed their mind. So
[1:46:29] um when you put these folks in um in
[1:46:32] that seat
[1:46:34] um that gives them a little more um
[1:46:36] little more teeth if if they just show
[1:46:39] up and they have to go over these books
[1:46:41] and have to go over the operation and
[1:46:43] they have no say why will they be there?
[1:46:46] So that's
[1:46:50] >> I wouldn't be really in favor of
[1:46:51] relinquishing the control that the
[1:46:52] council currently has with this
[1:46:54] legislative bill. I think that would
[1:46:55] hurt it a bit.
[1:46:56] >> Pardon me. I couldn't hear you.
[1:46:57] >> I would have a problem with that because
[1:46:59] the council as an elected body I think
[1:47:01] should have that because we do represent
[1:47:03] the citizens of Wcomako County. The
[1:47:05] commission doesn't necessarily represent
[1:47:06] the citizens of Wcomo County. That's why
[1:47:08] I don't think I could be in favor of
[1:47:10] >> they're not representing the citizens of
[1:47:11] W. They're representing the nursing
[1:47:13] home, John. And they're not having the
[1:47:14] authority to fire. They're just having
[1:47:16] the recommendation the recommendation to
[1:47:19] understand. But I think what what that
[1:47:20] amendment it compromised the council's
[1:47:22] authority over the whole entire
[1:47:24] >> Why would it do that?
[1:47:26] >> Cuz it's the council couldn't
[1:47:27] independently take any measure.
[1:47:29] >> No, I'm not. No, I'm not taking anything
[1:47:30] away from the council. I didn't say
[1:47:31] that. That's not what my amendment was.
[1:47:34] It has to they can recommend it. They
[1:47:36] can make the recommendation and then
[1:47:38] it's up to the council. If they don't
[1:47:39] rank, if they don't make that
[1:47:40] recommendation, can the council make the
[1:47:43] recommend can the council uh take a
[1:47:45] directive into?
[1:47:46] >> Yes, the council can still take a
[1:47:47] direct. Yes. I never said anything about
[1:47:49] taking the authority away from the
[1:47:51] council.
[1:47:52] >> So, they just make a recommendation to
[1:47:53] the county council. Correct. To them.
[1:47:55] >> They can do that anyway in this bill.
[1:47:57] Joe,
[1:47:57] >> that's I was
[1:47:58] >> They can do it anyway.
[1:48:01] >> Any other I was just going to say the
[1:48:03] same thing. uh the commission can make
[1:48:05] any recommendation up and down the pike
[1:48:08] uh inclusive of dismissal of the uh of
[1:48:11] the administrator. So that would just be
[1:48:12] one of many things that they might uh
[1:48:14] come to the council with or to the
[1:48:16] executive with.
[1:48:17] >> Do we spell that out in here? Is that
[1:48:19] already spelled out?
[1:48:20] >> It's not spelled out in there. No.
[1:48:21] >> So what council is trying to say he's
[1:48:23] trying to spell that out as a
[1:48:26] >> a specific uh ability that the
[1:48:29] commission would have. I don't think you
[1:48:31] need I think you need a legislative bill
[1:48:34] that says that a commission can make a
[1:48:36] recommendation. That's what the
[1:48:37] commission is there for.
[1:48:38] >> That's that's why the the the commission
[1:48:40] is even being established.
[1:48:42] >> Okay. Whatever.
[1:48:44] >> There's a motion to second on the floor.
[1:48:45] All those in favor say I.
[1:48:47] >> I. I.
[1:48:48] >> Opposed.
[1:48:51] » I don't remember what we're voting on,
[1:48:52] but yeah. Okay. [laughter]
[1:48:55] >> Yeah. J organization. I'll go opposed, I
[1:48:57] guess. I don't know. It should be a
[1:48:58] board. It should be an actual board.
[1:49:01] >> They have no authority. You're putting a
[1:49:03] board in there with no authority to do
[1:49:04] anything or say anything. So, you're
[1:49:07] wasting their time and everybody else's.
[1:49:10] >> All right. Thank you, Joe. The amendment
[1:49:11] fails by a vote, I believe, of five to
[1:49:13] two. Josh.
[1:49:14] >> Yeah.
[1:49:14] >> Okay. All right. Thank you, Joe. Any
[1:49:16] other um comments, questions,
[1:49:18] discussions?
[1:49:20] >> Yes, Josh.
[1:49:21] >> I just want to say once again, this is
[1:49:23] only a first step forward.
[1:49:26] We need to get to that point where if
[1:49:29] there's a if the county owns the
[1:49:31] nonprofit, if that's what's happening,
[1:49:33] then that does the nonprofit have a
[1:49:35] board [snorts] who puts together the
[1:49:36] strategic plan like that. None of this
[1:49:39] gets us to that point where we know,
[1:49:40] okay, here's our here's our path
[1:49:43] forward. Here's what we need both on the
[1:49:45] capital side as well as on the operating
[1:49:47] side. Um, so this and this only this is only a bridge or a first step
[1:49:52] into into something else, but this is
[1:49:54] something that's going to have to
[1:49:55] continue to be looked at and thought
[1:49:56] through. And I think there should be a
[1:49:58] broader um effort and I don't want to
[1:50:01] say a commission because usually that's
[1:50:02] what you put together. Uh, but there
[1:50:04] needs to be a broader effort to try to
[1:50:06] figure out, okay, how the heck do we
[1:50:07] design something that makes sense for
[1:50:10] the long term and that gets us to the
[1:50:12] next 50 years or more? And um we're not
[1:50:14] doing that in this in this legislation,
[1:50:16] but this is just the step forward.
[1:50:18] >> Yeah. Just acknowledging that.
[1:50:20] >> Yeah.
[1:50:21] >> So, this meeting lasted about a half
[1:50:23] hour longer than the one in 2018, and
[1:50:26] it'll probably be the same results.
[1:50:28] Nothing. I don't agree. I don't agree at
[1:50:30] all, Joe. But
[1:50:32] [clears throat] that is your
[1:50:33] prerogative. Um
[1:50:35] so, all those in favor of legislative
[1:50:38] bill 2026-11
[1:50:40] as amended, we'll say I. If you're in
[1:50:42] favor, nay. If you are opposed, uh, it
[1:50:45] will be a roll call vote. Uh, Councilman
[1:50:47] Shields,
[1:50:49] >> I.
[1:50:50] >> Councilman Nettis,
[1:50:51] >> I.
[1:50:51] >> Vice President Merritt,
[1:50:52] >> I.
[1:50:53] >> Councilman Holloway,
[1:50:54] >> I.
[1:50:54] >> Councilman Hastings,
[1:50:56] >> I.
[1:50:56] >> Councilman W.
[1:50:57] >> Uh, no.
[1:50:58] >> No. Chair votes I. Legislative bill
[1:51:01] 2026-11
[1:51:02] passes as amended by a vote of 6 to one.
[1:51:07] Thank you all very much for uh all your
[1:51:09] work. Thank you, Mr. Laken and thank you
[1:51:12] uh Mr. Wilbur,
[1:51:15] Mrs. Hurley.
[1:51:16] >> Okay. Next on the agenda this morning is
[1:51:19] resolution number 138-2026.
[1:51:23] This is authorizing Clark Mosquito
[1:51:25] Control Products, Inc. as a sole source
[1:51:27] vendor for fiscal year 2027 for the
[1:51:30] Clark Cougar ulv sprayer to be utilized
[1:51:33] by Wakamico County Public Works. Um,
[1:51:36] you'll notice behind the resolution
[1:51:38] number is SM. That indicates that in
[1:51:41] order for this resolution to pass, it
[1:51:43] requires a super majority vote, meaning
[1:51:46] five council members must vote in favor
[1:51:48] of it for it to pass. And we have Amy
[1:51:50] Kernodal here, our purchasing agent, and
[1:51:52] Mr. Conrad Jones. Um, if you have any
[1:51:55] questions.
[1:51:56] >> A motion from council to approve
[1:51:57] resolution 138, 2022. The move.
[1:52:00] >> Second.
[1:52:01] >> Any discussion?
[1:52:03] >> All those in favor say I.
[1:52:04] >> I. I opposed. Motion is carried.
[1:52:07] Resolution passes unanimously.
[1:52:09] >> Okay. Next is resolution number
[1:52:11] 139-2026.
[1:52:13] This is to amend the fiscal year 2027
[1:52:15] budget to donate $10,000 to the
[1:52:18] Christmas Island project at the city
[1:52:20] park. And I believe we have Pam Olen
[1:52:22] here, our director of finance.
[1:52:24] >> Pain a motion from council to approve
[1:52:26] resolution number 139 2026. So move.
[1:52:29] >> Second. Second.
[1:52:30] >> Any discussion? Yep. I do. Joe is Miss
[1:52:35] Olen's here.
[1:52:36] >> I don't see her.
[1:52:38] >> Maybe Mr. Leaken can address your
[1:52:40] questions.
[1:52:48] » Here she comes. Here she comes.
[1:52:50] >> There she comes. Here she comes.
[1:52:52] [laughter]
[1:52:52] >> Thought you were getting away.
[1:52:53] >> The delay was quicker than thought.
[1:52:59] >> Pamelan, finance director. Sorry to put
[1:53:01] you on the spot here, but um I asked
[1:53:03] these questions last week and I didn't
[1:53:04] get the satisfa satisfactory answers. Is
[1:53:08] this um
[1:53:10] it says a Christmas Island project in
[1:53:12] the um what what does that is that on
[1:53:15] you know? My understanding is that this
[1:53:19] is in city park that um greater
[1:53:22] Salisbury committee is working with a
[1:53:24] company to uh kind of bring a lake
[1:53:27] display to I think what is called picnic
[1:53:31] island.
[1:53:32] >> If I could briefly uh
[1:53:35] Mike Mr. Mike Dunn he's the executive
[1:53:38] director of the greater Salsbury
[1:53:39] committee. Would you like to come
[1:53:40] forward? So, I was asked to come up
[1:53:43] [clears throat] with the amendment as to
[1:53:45] how to fund it. I was not asked to
[1:53:47] explain what it is. So, I will turn it
[1:53:50] over to [laughter]
[1:53:52] >> Mike Dunn as to what it is.
[1:53:54] >> Thanks for being here today,
[1:53:55] >> Mr. President. It's my pleasure to be
[1:53:56] here. I'm Mike Dunn, president and CEO
[1:53:58] of the Greater Salsbury Committee. Would
[1:54:00] certainly be glad to answer any
[1:54:01] questions you want me to try to take
[1:54:03] that question.
[1:54:04] >> It was originally going to be in Picnic
[1:54:06] Island. Um the city of Salsbury is doing
[1:54:10] a city park master plan and it's going
[1:54:13] from Snow Hill Road starting there and
[1:54:16] ending up on Picnic Island. So now we
[1:54:19] have moved the design and everything
[1:54:21] that Pam represented um to the area
[1:54:24] around the band stand, the new bridge
[1:54:29] and the the footpath that goes down
[1:54:31] towards Snow Hill Road. Then you'll come
[1:54:33] across that Snow Hill Road bridge and
[1:54:36] circle back to the other bridge. So it
[1:54:39] will be that little circle area. That's
[1:54:40] where [snorts] all of this will happen.
[1:54:42] >> The new the um the walk brid the walkway
[1:54:45] bridge isn't repaired yet. Will that be
[1:54:47] done in time?
[1:54:48] >> It Yes, it's being repaired as we speak.
[1:54:50] >> What's the total cost of all this?
[1:54:52] >> Yeah. The invoice to Moscow Design
[1:54:54] Company. Um they they created Winter
[1:54:57] Festive Lights in Ocean City. It's
[1:54:59] $211,000.
[1:55:02] >> Okay. And where's most of the money
[1:55:03] coming from?
[1:55:04] >> Um, Greater Salisbury Committee is
[1:55:05] raising it.
[1:55:07] >> The Greater Salsbury Committee.
[1:55:08] >> Yes, sir.
[1:55:09] >> 211,000.
[1:55:10] >> Yes, sir.
[1:55:10] >> They're raising it.
[1:55:11] >> Raising it.
[1:55:12] >> They're fundraising.
[1:55:12] >> Sorry. Fundraising.
[1:55:14] >> Don donors and sponsors.
[1:55:15] >> Uh-huh. Donors and sponsors. Um,
[1:55:18] >> and then we will be, just so everybody
[1:55:20] knows, we will then be turning over,
[1:55:23] we're doing the purchase and then we're
[1:55:26] through anou we will be um dedicating
[1:55:29] and turning all those lights over to the
[1:55:31] city of Salsbury. They will um uh store
[1:55:35] them and then put them up each and every
[1:55:37] year.
[1:55:38] >> Um, what was the um
[1:55:44] inind donation from the county? Uh, I
[1:55:47] believe Recken Parks is helping with um
[1:55:51] some of the setup.
[1:55:52] >> Yeah. And some of the programming. So on
[1:55:54] the this opens on the Saturday after
[1:55:58] Thanksgiving and it will be open every
[1:55:59] single night. And on the weekends
[1:56:02] between Thanksgiving and Christmas,
[1:56:04] we're trying to create a little holiday
[1:56:06] magic in the city park. And Wamico
[1:56:09] Reckon Parks is helping us with the
[1:56:11] programming that will happen on those
[1:56:14] weekends. So on the Friday and Saturday
[1:56:16] night between 5:00 and 7:00 there
[1:56:19] [snorts] will be a stage wreck and parks
[1:56:21] we're going to use their stage. There
[1:56:23] will be snowball fights, there will be a
[1:56:25] train for kids, there will be Santa um
[1:56:28] food trucks and things like that. So the
[1:56:30] inind from Wycom reckoning parks comes
[1:56:33] in that programming aspect of things.
[1:56:35] >> What's the value of that?
[1:56:37] >> Until I see the programming and how many
[1:56:40] people I can't give you that answer. So,
[1:56:42] like until an actual schedule is set up
[1:56:44] and how many people we're bringing in,
[1:56:47] I I can't answer that.
[1:56:49] >> I can attempt to answer that for you,
[1:56:50] Mr. Holloway. Um, that'll be 2 hours per
[1:56:53] night that they will be helping the
[1:56:55] program. So, that's seven um nights of
[1:56:58] two hours. That's 14 hours of inind
[1:57:02] um on Recken Park's part during the
[1:57:05] event itself. Obviously, there's some
[1:57:06] planning and things like that in
[1:57:08] advance.
[1:57:08] >> How about the initial setup? How much
[1:57:10] time will that be? Yeah, the the Moscow
[1:57:13] design company from North Carolina. Um
[1:57:15] they will be bringing one person up and
[1:57:18] we've met with Wakamako Reck and Parks.
[1:57:21] We may be using um [clears throat]
[1:57:23] inmate labor that was used also um
[1:57:26] during the recent setup at Wakcomo
[1:57:28] County Fair and then the city of
[1:57:30] Salsbury will be bringing some of their
[1:57:34] um employees to learn the setup and then
[1:57:37] to learn how to break it down. But the company out of North Carolina that
[1:57:41] is designing all of this, they will be
[1:57:43] up here to supervise, if you will, and
[1:57:45] to show how the installation occurs.
[1:57:48] >> Been to the one in Ocean City. really
[1:57:49] nice and uh I think it's great that
[1:57:51] we're having this in Salsbury, but I
[1:57:53] really have a heartburn about using
[1:57:55] taxpayers dollars, especially
[1:57:57] >> if it's going to be Salsbury's event and
[1:58:00] Salsbury is going to control the event
[1:58:02] after it's all set up and all the
[1:58:04] product goes to Salsbury and um you know
[1:58:07] and um
[1:58:10] in the past uh we turned down money
[1:58:12] going to the folk festival and we shore
[1:58:16] up you know we turned down uh money for
[1:58:19] them when they wanted to u tipping fees
[1:58:22] um excused for some excuse me tipping
[1:58:25] fees excused um
[1:58:29] I I guess I'm wondering why
[1:58:32] Greater Salisbury committee and raising
[1:58:34] all the money why'd you come to the
[1:58:35] county for $10,000
[1:58:36] >> well uh because the Greater Salisbury
[1:58:38] committee exists in Salsbury to do good
[1:58:41] in and around Salsbury and [snorts] last
[1:58:43] time I checked Salsbury is in Wcomako
[1:58:45] County so that's why we're here
[1:58:48] >> Dave uh Just to piggy back on that
[1:58:50] thought, within parks and wrecks, they
[1:58:52] tourism. Is this considered to be a
[1:58:54] tourism uh
[1:58:57] >> and and in that same regard, are we
[1:58:58] trying to steer some of the throngs that
[1:59:00] go over to Ocean City to Winter
[1:59:02] Wonderland, Wcomo County, and to eat in
[1:59:04] our restaurants and etc. Absolutely.
[1:59:07] That was a softball question.
[1:59:08] >> No, thank you, Mr. Andis. that that's
[1:59:11] look why why are we doing this to be
[1:59:13] honest um this recent conversation being
[1:59:16] example and I applaud every member of
[1:59:18] the council for the last hour and a half
[1:59:20] and how you all conducted yourself and
[1:59:22] everybody in here things have been a
[1:59:24] little deep around here a little heavy
[1:59:26] and so we need to create and bring some
[1:59:29] holiday magic into Wcomamako County and
[1:59:33] the Salsbury city park is right in the
[1:59:35] heart of Wcomamako County uh Mr. Dennis,
[1:59:38] to your point, uh, this is I I want to
[1:59:41] point out also this is a free event. If
[1:59:44] you get in the car to go to Ocean City
[1:59:46] or you get in the car to go to
[1:59:48] Shelville, you're paying money. You're
[1:59:50] spending a night out in Ocean City or in
[1:59:53] Lewis. And we believe conservatively
[1:59:56] there will be 5,000 people who come and
[1:59:58] visit on those seven nights. So you're
[2:00:01] talking families getting in a car,
[2:00:03] making [laughter] a a shopping night out
[2:00:05] of it, perhaps a restaurant night out of
[2:00:07] it, increasing economic activity in
[2:00:10] Wcomamako County as a and we're not
[2:00:12] competing with Ocean City to be clear.
[2:00:14] What they do is fabulous, but we're
[2:00:17] trying to create something that is free
[2:00:19] for the people of Wcomamako County to
[2:00:21] enjoy holiday magic here as opposed to
[2:00:24] elsewhere.
[2:00:25] >> With me if we compete with Ocean City,
[2:00:27] >> noted, [laughter] but a second. Was
[2:00:29] there any thoughts of taking this money
[2:00:30] from um
[2:00:32] >> um tourism the tourism did you contact?
[2:00:35] >> So uh again the decision um to do the
[2:00:38] $10,000 this way was because we were
[2:00:41] already taking from the rec park parks
[2:00:43] and tourism budget by um the staff time
[2:00:47] that is going to be donated. So they are
[2:00:50] already making a donation of dollars um
[2:00:54] coming out of a budget that we're not
[2:00:56] asking for a budget amendment for. We're
[2:00:58] not asking for any other dollars from
[2:00:59] it. We are asking for um the straight
[2:01:04] dollars to come out of the contingency
[2:01:06] general fund versus coming out of the
[2:01:09] department that is already um providing
[2:01:11] a dollar a a dollar donation in in kind
[2:01:16] labor.
[2:01:17] >> We don't know how much that is.
[2:01:18] >> No, but again it's not going to be one
[2:01:22] person for 14 hours. I mean it is it is
[2:01:25] going to be it is going to take a
[2:01:27] part-time staff to do this and um it is
[2:01:32] going to take time to program. It is
[2:01:34] going to take time to um create the
[2:01:36] programs that are happening and it is
[2:01:39] not like we're going to just say oh it's
[2:01:41] open from 5 to 7 and nobody is going to
[2:01:43] be there to help run that. So again, um,
[2:01:47] until everything is written down and we
[2:01:50] know we're having seven people, 14
[2:01:53] people, 20 people, I I can't answer
[2:01:56] those questions, but I can tell you that
[2:01:58] we are already providing um through that
[2:02:01] department a donation and as such we
[2:02:04] felt that the contingency was the best
[2:02:06] place and community promotions was the
[2:02:08] best place to uh put the dollar amount.
[2:02:12] >> Jeff, do you have a question? Actually,
[2:02:14] you've already answered it. Um,
[2:02:16] >> I was going to ask about the community
[2:02:18] impact. You say about 5,000 people.
[2:02:20] >> Well, that's Yeah, on a conservative
[2:02:22] basis. And remember, that's just on
[2:02:24] those weekend nights. These lights will
[2:02:26] be up, uh, from the Saturday night, uh,
[2:02:29] after Thanksgiving through New Year's.
[2:02:31] And so, uh, these are interactive. So, I
[2:02:34] can see hundreds upon hundreds of people
[2:02:36] going down there for free to get photo
[2:02:39] opportunities, selfie opportunities with
[2:02:41] their family. Um, one of the things that
[2:02:44] in kind that Wcomo Reck and Parks, we
[2:02:47] just had the Greater Salsbury Committee,
[2:02:49] we had our uh, general membership
[2:02:51] meeting at the civic center yesterday so
[2:02:53] that we could see the renovations and we
[2:02:55] enjoyed um, the new space and among the
[2:02:59] things that Wreck and Parks will be
[2:03:00] doing, they have a 42,000 person email
[2:03:04] list and so they'll be using the
[2:03:06] billboard, they'll be promoting it on
[2:03:08] all their social media as will the city
[2:03:10] of Salsbury. So again, we're we're
[2:03:13] optimistic that this is going to be this
[2:03:15] is actually a good and easy thing for
[2:03:17] the community and we're looking forward
[2:03:19] to bringing it.
[2:03:21] >> Um let's take this to a vote. All those
[2:03:23] in favor of resolution 139, 2022, say I
[2:03:27] >> opposed. Motion is carried. Resolution
[2:03:29] passes unanimously.
[2:03:30] >> Thank you, Mr. Thank you, council.
[2:03:33] >> Next is a submission of Judy Coun as or
[2:03:36] Judy Couns as director of public works
[2:03:38] by Mr. Steven Leak.
[2:03:51] Good afternoon, Mr. Leak. It is
[2:03:53] afternoon. Good afternoon.
[2:03:55] Um, Steve Laken, assistant director of
[2:03:58] administration. I'm here today uh to
[2:04:01] present to you the county executive
[2:04:02] recommends the appointment of Judy Coun
[2:04:06] to serve as director of public works.
[2:04:08] and I'm formally submitting her
[2:04:09] credentials for your consideration. The
[2:04:11] Wcomo Department of Public Works is
[2:04:13] committed to enhancing the quality of
[2:04:15] life for our citizens uh by striving to
[2:04:18] plan, construct, and maintain the
[2:04:19] county's public works infrastructure.
[2:04:22] >> Thank you, Mr. Le.
[2:04:24] >> Next is the submission of an appointment
[2:04:26] to the board of library trustees.
[2:04:28] >> County executive recommends the
[2:04:30] appointment of Zachary Meyer to the
[2:04:31] board of library trustees, and I'm
[2:04:33] formally submitting his credentials for
[2:04:35] your consideration. The board sets
[2:04:37] policies and procedural guidelines for
[2:04:39] the library and oversees proposed and
[2:04:41] approved budget operations.
[2:04:44] Okay.
[2:04:44] >> Before use resolution number 140-2026.
[2:04:48] This is confirming the appointment of
[2:04:49] Zachary Meyer to the board of library
[2:04:52] trustees.
[2:04:54] >> Entertain a motion from council to
[2:04:55] approve resolution 14026.
[2:04:58] Second. Second.
[2:04:59] >> Discussion. All those in favor say I.
[2:05:01] >> Opposed? Motion is carried. Resolution
[2:05:04] passes unanimously. or two.
[2:05:05] >> That's all I have, Mr. President.
[2:05:07] >> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Leak.
[2:05:08] >> I speak too early.
[2:05:12] >> Okay. Thursdays.
[2:05:15] >> Dr. Hersburgger. How are you? Good to
[2:05:17] see you. Thank you for being here.
[2:05:19] >> I'll share. You might have to.
[2:05:23] >> Good afternoon, Council President
[2:05:24] Cannon. Wakamo County Council. My name
[2:05:27] is Andre Chhatel. I'd like to present
[2:05:29] resolution 141206.
[2:05:31] Um on the agenda it says accepting the
[2:05:33] solid waste billing report. Um in the uh
[2:05:37] brief book I think it says acknowledging
[2:05:40] um instead of accepting. So
[2:05:43] >> thank y mutil entertain a motion from
[2:05:46] council to approve resolution 1412026
[2:05:49] moved.
[2:05:50] >> Second
[2:05:51] >> discussion.
[2:05:53] You want to elaborate any on some of the
[2:05:55] particulars of it miss?
[2:05:56] >> Yes yes yes please. Thank you. Um so the
[2:05:59] focus of the exercise was to evaluate
[2:06:00] the adequacy of controls for the solid
[2:06:03] waste division billing practices. Um and
[2:06:06] so the objectives were to evaluate the
[2:06:08] controls designed to manage risks
[2:06:10] related to reporting accurate reliable
[2:06:12] information compliance with policies
[2:06:15] efficiency uh sorry effectively and
[2:06:18] efficiently using resources and of
[2:06:19] course to make recommendations. Um I
[2:06:22] concluded the program design was
[2:06:23] satisfactory and I had four uh finding
[2:06:26] areas or headings. Um and uh the four
[2:06:30] were county code development for finance
[2:06:33] charges, county code development
[2:06:35] permits, munis journal entry procedures
[2:06:38] um pricing system controls. That last
[2:06:41] one was partly remediated. Additionally,
[2:06:43] there's an appendix with a table that um
[2:06:46] was based on a price list provided to me
[2:06:48] by the solid waste management and
[2:06:50] management did provide a response. Um
[2:06:53] there's additional information in the
[2:06:55] report and um a special thanks to all
[2:06:58] the departments and staff that helped
[2:06:59] with the project and um I would post it
[2:07:02] if you approve it and um or acknowledge
[2:07:05] it and I'll be glad to answer any
[2:07:06] questions you have.
[2:07:08] >> Questions from anybody?
[2:07:10] >> I've got one. I I don't know if you can
[2:07:12] answer this or not. You made reference
[2:07:13] to rental revenue that was not tested,
[2:07:16] which is probably fine. What uh what
[2:07:19] revenue what are we renting? Do you
[2:07:22] know?
[2:07:22] >> Yeah. [laughter] And and I did test the rental revenue a little bit. Um but
[2:07:26] then I was uh asked to um not uh discuss
[2:07:30] it further because of ongoing legal um
[2:07:34] concerns.
[2:07:36] So, um, it might be something that would
[2:07:38] be for a close session to to go into.
[2:07:42] >> That's good enough answer for me.
[2:07:44] >> Okay. [laughter]
[2:07:45] >> Then there were concerns about pricing
[2:07:47] issues and and and uh permits
[2:07:50] >> and not you know their confusion on
[2:07:53] exactly how much they were charging for
[2:07:54] some permits and other permits and then
[2:07:56] there were journal entries as well which
[2:07:58] were a little bit confusing. Do you feel
[2:08:00] comfortable that that's being resolved
[2:08:02] through your process?
[2:08:03] >> Yes. So for the journal entries I think
[2:08:05] there was a process change and um a and
[2:08:10] what what I caught the external auditor
[2:08:13] also caught. So um you know it's not
[2:08:15] necessarily my finding per se. So so
[2:08:17] mine is more about like the delay in the
[2:08:19] processing rather than that doing it
[2:08:21] because the the external auditor did
[2:08:22] make that recommendation to them and
[2:08:24] they did uh adjust um and do a journal
[2:08:27] entry. So there was something about
[2:08:28] where they enter the information into
[2:08:30] the system and then there's a separate
[2:08:32] process for uh posting and releasing and
[2:08:36] so forth and so finance couldn't see
[2:08:37] what solid waste had been doing
[2:08:39] basically. So uh for that recommendation
[2:08:42] um
[2:08:44] it's you know to update the policies and
[2:08:46] procedures for entering and then um
[2:08:49] releasing those journal entries so that
[2:08:51] finance can see them. I think I think
[2:08:53] that one was fairly harmless. Um the the
[2:08:57] pricing system controls one. Um there were some updates to the county
[2:09:03] code. Um and so I think part of the
[2:09:06] county code updates were were there. Um
[2:09:10] and so then there was also separately a
[2:09:13] communication concern between the brush
[2:09:15] pile and the scale house. Uh so for for
[2:09:18] the communication one of course uh
[2:09:20] training the scale house and brush pel
[2:09:22] as needed on required communication that
[2:09:25] there could be other enhancements to the
[2:09:26] communication um but it wasn't something
[2:09:29] I did a costbenefit analysis on so I
[2:09:31] didn't include in the report so maybe
[2:09:33] communication tools but I think that's
[2:09:35] something for management's discretion um
[2:09:37] on the tools that they use to improve
[2:09:38] that communication.
[2:09:41] All those in favor of resolution 1412026
[2:09:44] say I oppos.
[2:09:46] >> Motion's carried. Resolution passes.
[2:09:51] >> All right. Um okay. I also have
[2:09:53] resolution 142 2026 approving the job
[2:09:56] description of the internal audit
[2:09:59] volunteer intern. Um and in in what in
[2:10:03] this resolution there um are some other
[2:10:06] um exhibit items um including a memo um
[2:10:10] and uh uh research items on where
[2:10:13] interns are paid, when do they have to
[2:10:15] be paid um and uh the the information in
[2:10:19] this one I think is also relevant to the
[2:10:21] next resolution. Council
[2:10:25] approve resolution 142 20226 move
[2:10:28] >> second discussion.
[2:10:30] >> Um yeah I do
[2:10:33] >> yeah this is growing government. Here we
[2:10:35] go again. Um do you have a letter from
[2:10:37] the internal audit committee supporting
[2:10:39] this?
[2:10:41] >> I I might have in the past. I'm not 100%
[2:10:46] sure. Um,
[2:10:48] >> I wouldn't think it would should even
[2:10:49] come to the table unless you have a
[2:10:50] support from your internal audit
[2:10:52] committee.
[2:10:52] >> As well as for the volunteer one,
[2:10:54] >> pardon [snorts] me.
[2:10:54] >> As well as for the volunteer one.
[2:10:57] >> This the first one is the volunteer.
[2:10:58] This is the paid one.
[2:10:59] >> The second one's the paid one.
[2:11:01] >> Oh, I thought Well,
[2:11:02] >> there's either one. I mean, you should
[2:11:04] have a letter of support from your audit
[2:11:06] committee for either one of them,
[2:11:07] shouldn't you?
[2:11:08] >> Really?
[2:11:09] >> There's a volunteer.
[2:11:11] >> It's just a volunteer.
[2:11:13] >> Uh, resolution 142 is the volunteer.
[2:11:15] Yeah. The f the first one's for the
[2:11:16] volunteer intern. The second one's for
[2:11:18] the paid.
[2:11:18] >> Well, you should you should you should
[2:11:19] have letters of support for either one.
[2:11:21] Do you have a letter of support for
[2:11:22] either one?
[2:11:24] >> I' I've discussed it at the audit
[2:11:25] committee meeting. I don't I don't know
[2:11:26] if I have specifically. I might have had
[2:11:29] one in the past that I present. I can't
[2:11:31] remember right now. Um
[2:11:33] >> let's I'll make a motion that we um
[2:11:36] postpone this until we get an opinion
[2:11:39] from the audit committee.
[2:11:40] >> Second.
[2:11:41] >> I'll second that.
[2:11:41] >> Motion second. All those in favor say I.
[2:11:43] >> I. I
[2:11:44] >> opposed
[2:11:45] >> post
[2:11:47] opposed motion uh to postpone fails by a
[2:11:50] vote of five to two.
[2:11:53] >> Uh Mr. Tail, any any other information
[2:11:55] you want to spot?
[2:11:56] >> Yeah. Uh so we had a discussion before
[2:11:59] and and just to clarify, I I thought at
[2:12:01] that prior discussion that it was just I
[2:12:03] was going to do research on not and and
[2:12:05] so I apologize I didn't have a a letter,
[2:12:08] but I I did get various intern
[2:12:11] descriptions, job descriptions. Um I
[2:12:13] also got the letter from or the email
[2:12:15] from uh HR um regarding the whole paid
[2:12:19] and and unpaid status. So essentially if
[2:12:22] a intern is paid or is is is unpaid they
[2:12:27] can't really do I believe they can't
[2:12:29] really do um
[2:12:32] work that would take away from a regular
[2:12:34] paying job. And so um there's some
[2:12:37] differences between this resolution
[2:12:39] description and then 143 for the the
[2:12:42] paid intern. Um for instance where
[2:12:48] sorry let me find I highlighted in okay
[2:12:51] so uh for the unpaid they would review
[2:12:53] documents whereas the paid intern would
[2:12:56] like edit potentially write documents.
[2:12:59] Um there's uh
[2:13:03] close supervision for the volunteer one.
[2:13:06] Uh there would still be supervision, but
[2:13:08] it maybe wouldn't be as close for the um
[2:13:10] the paid intern. Um and then there's um
[2:13:16] a little bit more knowledge requirement
[2:13:18] for the paid intern.
[2:13:20] Um so
[2:13:22] >> I think a point of of clarification
[2:13:24] here, these motions aren't to hire these
[2:13:26] individuals. These motions are to create
[2:13:28] and approve the job description.
[2:13:30] >> Correct. Correct.
[2:13:31] >> So before any of this goes any further,
[2:13:34] especially before we're going to expend
[2:13:35] any funds, that would come back to the
[2:13:38] council. This is simply just to approve
[2:13:39] the job description that the internal
[2:13:41] order has put together for the council.
[2:13:43] >> Correct. So So when I come uh so when I
[2:13:45] prepare the budget for my uh unit or
[2:13:48] subunit, um
[2:13:51] at that time I could have a letter from
[2:13:53] the audit committee if you if you would
[2:13:54] like that. so that when you have your budget numbers from me that it also
[2:13:59] says I want this intern and here's the
[2:14:01] letter for that next fiscal year. Um and
[2:14:03] then we can discuss later on perhaps the
[2:14:07] process of you know who would be the uh
[2:14:10] person interviewing? Would it just be
[2:14:11] me? Would it be me and the council
[2:14:12] member? Several members of the council
[2:14:15] in um in interviewing for the intern. I
[2:14:18] feel like an unpaid intern I I would
[2:14:20] like to have a little bit more leeway,
[2:14:22] but for the paid one, absolutely. Um,
[2:14:24] you know, having whatever you guys feel
[2:14:26] appropriate for who interviews and
[2:14:28] selects the intern.
[2:14:29] >> I feel like we're discussing uh the job
[2:14:31] position for a $160,000 job. This is
[2:14:34] just [laughter] a freaking intern.
[2:14:36] >> Yes.
[2:14:37] >> With it goes to that's a student. And if
[2:14:40] we want students to be able to be that,
[2:14:42] you know, stronger, then they got to go
[2:14:44] and start in some sort of situation. So,
[2:14:46] this is just an unpaid intern. Yes.
[2:14:48] >> We don't need to throw the book at them
[2:14:49] that they have to go and doing every
[2:14:50] single thing. You know, this is just
[2:14:52] simply let's get someone in the door,
[2:14:53] help them learn. So hopefully one day
[2:14:54] they work for the county and provide
[2:14:55] value back to us.
[2:14:56] >> Yeah. And and just to remember uh this
[2:14:58] position that I'm currently in was
[2:14:59] vacant for a while. Part of that might
[2:15:01] be that we don't have a lot of [snorts]
[2:15:04] people experienced in uh internal audit
[2:15:07] on the Eastern Shore. And so having that
[2:15:10] people interested in this uh for future
[2:15:14] people to eventually take over. I'm not
[2:15:15] trying to leave today, you know,
[2:15:16] [laughter] but but you know that we have
[2:15:18] people that have some experience so that
[2:15:20] when they can come into a role, a more
[2:15:23] permanent role that they've they've had
[2:15:24] that. Yeah.
[2:15:25] >> Take this to a vote. All those in favor
[2:15:26] of resolution 142 2026 say I
[2:15:29] >> opposed. Motion is carried. Resolution
[2:15:31] passes unanimously.
[2:15:33] >> Thank you. Uh and then for 143 approving
[2:15:36] the uh job description for the uh paid
[2:15:41] intern. I don't if I'm saying this yeah
[2:15:43] for the paid intern motion council to
[2:15:45] approve resolution 143 20226 move
[2:15:48] >> second
[2:15:49] >> discussion
[2:15:50] >> all those in favor say I
[2:15:52] >> opposed motion is carried resolution
[2:15:54] passes
[2:15:55] >> I sincerely thank you all very much for
[2:15:57] this
[2:15:57] >> thank you thanks for taking the
[2:15:58] [laughter] time to put together you had
[2:16:00] a grants audit update [snorts]
[2:16:02] >> yes I do all right um so I put a memo in
[2:16:05] the uh brief book for you uh there was
[2:16:07] an entrance conference for the grants
[2:16:09] audit on August 10th among Among other
[2:16:12] things, I've received the uh Wakamo
[2:16:15] County Grant Administration manual dated
[2:16:17] April 1st, 2026. Um grant list from uh
[2:16:21] both the Department of Aviation, also
[2:16:23] called the airport, and Department of
[2:16:25] Planning, Zoning, and Community
[2:16:26] Development. [snorts] Um I've selected
[2:16:28] grants for potential testing. And I have
[2:16:30] received other documents, by the way.
[2:16:32] These are just some of the ones I I
[2:16:34] mentioned in the memo. Um, we also had a
[2:16:36] meeting um, since this memo where I said
[2:16:40] I requested the meetings. Um, I have had
[2:16:42] a meeting with the airport. Um,
[2:16:45] everybody agreed I could say it was a
[2:16:46] productive meeting. Um, or I believe
[2:16:48] they agreed that I could say it was a
[2:16:50] productive meeting. Um, and uh, I'm here
[2:16:53] to answer any other questions you may
[2:16:54] have on that.
[2:16:57] >> Just uh, I think you just said it so
[2:16:59] smooth sailing so far versus some of the
[2:17:01] past recent past history. You'd say?
[2:17:03] >> Yeah. Yeah. I I think that having the
[2:17:06] meccing uh finance in
[2:17:10] I think this is really helping a lot
[2:17:12] with all audits.
[2:17:14] >> Okay. It was just CCing that department
[2:17:16] that opened up everything.
[2:17:19] >> Good, good, good.
[2:17:22] >> Well, thank you very much. We appreciate
[2:17:23] being here.
[2:17:24] >> Thank you. Before we go into public
[2:17:26] comments, I know there's some people
[2:17:27] here to um uh probably for the mobile
[2:17:30] home park uh work session, but there
[2:17:32] will be a half hour recess after public
[2:17:34] comments, just so you're aware of that.
[2:17:36] Okay, we're I know we're going late, but
[2:17:38] we go late often. I apologize for that.
[2:17:41] At this time, we open the floor for
[2:17:43] public comments. If you have any
[2:17:44] comments that you'd like to make, please
[2:17:45] come to the podium. Please state your
[2:17:46] name, your county of residence, and your
[2:17:48] concerns. Tim
[2:17:55] Jim Atkins, Waggamo County. Uh it's good
[2:17:58] to hear that the auditor is having a
[2:18:01] little more success uh with her audits.
[2:18:03] However, uh looking at at some of the
[2:18:07] information that she supplied to the
[2:18:09] council, there are uh some things in
[2:18:12] there that I think we should be worrying
[2:18:15] about. Uh one of them uh since this was
[2:18:18] an audit of public works,
[2:18:21] the statement that was made in the audit
[2:18:25] because of inherent limitations in
[2:18:28] internal controls,
[2:18:30] errors or fraud may still occur and go
[2:18:33] undetected.
[2:18:36] Public works fraud, how could that ever
[2:18:39] happen? You know, it's just But we're
[2:18:42] still doing it.
[2:18:44] Uh, I'm sorry if I'm boring any council
[2:18:47] members that want to text rather than pay attention to the community.
[2:18:52] Uh,
[2:18:54] second part, solid waste billing and
[2:18:56] data policies,
[2:18:58] procedures overview states if an invoice
[2:19:01] is not paid within 30 days, a finance
[2:19:04] charge is applied to the account.
[2:19:08] However, it says that the
[2:19:13] management discussed with the internal
[2:19:15] auditor the difficulties recouping
[2:19:17] finance charges from some customers.
[2:19:20] During fieldwork, management learned
[2:19:23] that policy is added finance charges. A
[2:19:25] bill is not paid in 60 days rather than
[2:19:29] in 30, but there are difficulties
[2:19:32] recouping the finance charges.
[2:19:35] How are these people still dealing with
[2:19:37] the county if they don't pay their bill?
[2:19:40] How are they pulling their trucks into
[2:19:42] the landfill if they're not paying their
[2:19:44] bill? Stop them at the guard shack and
[2:19:48] tell them when you bring us a check,
[2:19:50] we'll let you come back. Why is the
[2:19:53] county have such a problem collecting
[2:19:55] money?
[2:19:57] So, let's work on that. Uh, one of the
[2:20:00] other concerns I have is that it keeps
[2:20:04] coming up in council meetings that we
[2:20:07] should have closed sessions.
[2:20:10] in in in my
[2:20:13] understanding should deal with personnel
[2:20:15] issues,
[2:20:16] legal issues,
[2:20:18] and possibly the purchasing of property
[2:20:22] by the county, which it makes sense.
[2:20:26] But there shouldn't be as many proposed
[2:20:28] closed meetings.
[2:20:30] We hear so many times from this council
[2:20:33] table transparency,
[2:20:36] but let's have a closed meeting. The
[2:20:39] public has a right to know what the
[2:20:42] county is spending money on. If county
[2:20:46] is being wasted,
[2:20:48] if council members are spending money
[2:20:51] for lodging
[2:20:53] when they shouldn't be spending money
[2:20:55] for lodging, the public has a right to
[2:20:57] know that. That's not closed meetings.
[2:21:00] Keep it open. Keep it transparent. Thank
[2:21:03] you.
[2:21:04] >> Hey, Mr. Atkins.
[2:21:08] » Again, my name is Mary Ashanti. um back
[2:21:12] to the emergency
[2:21:15] um
[2:21:17] act that was signed and thank you for
[2:21:20] that. But I have a my question one of my
[2:21:23] question is is when will the information
[2:21:27] go out to the public soliciting profile
[2:21:31] a res resume uh for people that want to
[2:21:34] serve on that committee. and who will
[2:21:38] the resume or profile go to? Um,
[2:21:43] one of the things that I want to
[2:21:45] recommend
[2:21:47] that the county council get also get a
[2:21:50] copy of that those resumes
[2:21:55] and not just one,
[2:21:58] not just the county executive. I think
[2:22:01] you both should get a copy of it because
[2:22:04] um past history some resumes are tabled
[2:22:09] or whatever until we ask question as to
[2:22:12] what happened to them. So that causes
[2:22:15] delay. Um
[2:22:19] so
[2:22:21] I have something else but another time
[2:22:25] [laughter]
[2:22:27] » I'll hold her there.
[2:22:35] » [laughter]
[2:22:36] >> It's really hard to follow that up. I'm
[2:22:38] sorry. I'm hungry, too. Just so you
[2:22:41] know, uh Joe White, Wcomaku County, uh
[2:22:44] back on August 4th, uh this council
[2:22:47] passed a one-year moratorum on data
[2:22:49] centers. And uh at that time there was
[2:22:52] some talk about I I know we're we're
[2:22:54] going starting the comprehensive plan
[2:22:57] back up, but there was some talk about
[2:23:00] where the weak points might be. One year
[2:23:03] in in the sense of planning happens
[2:23:06] pretty fast and by the time this council
[2:23:07] meets again, we'll we'll be down to 10
[2:23:10] months. Uh on September 3rd, Worcester
[2:23:14] County Planning Commission was set to
[2:23:17] hear a text amendment
[2:23:19] to to change some of their code that
[2:23:23] would allow the landing site for uh data
[2:23:27] wires coming in from AWS from across the
[2:23:29] Atlantic. It was taken off after uh
[2:23:33] there was known there was opposition.
[2:23:36] And uh I think this ties into Wakcom
[2:23:38] County because it has been said and I've
[2:23:40] said it here before that they do have
[2:23:43] technology now that can take those wires
[2:23:45] and bore them several miles underground
[2:23:48] within the eastern limits of Wcomaku
[2:23:51] County. And as fast as that technology
[2:23:53] advances it may be sooner than later
[2:23:55] they could be anywhere on the Eastern
[2:23:57] Shore.
[2:23:59] My concern is on Wednesday, September
[2:24:02] 2nd, there was a Tri County Council
[2:24:05] meeting and it was a presentation by
[2:24:06] Maryland Broadband. Um, I'm not against
[2:24:09] Tri County Council by any stretch, but
[2:24:11] it wasn't a normal night for their
[2:24:13] meeting and I know some some folks who
[2:24:14] are on this council weren't able to be
[2:24:16] there. Here's what I'm asking. I know
[2:24:19] this council only has a couple months
[2:24:21] left, but you're going to have a new
[2:24:23] council and they're going to have a lot
[2:24:24] on their plate and we've listed those
[2:24:26] things and nursing homes going to be one
[2:24:28] of them now. But let's have a work
[2:24:30] session with Maryland Broadband. I've
[2:24:32] looked them up. They're a 501c12.
[2:24:36] I don't know what that is and I'm in
[2:24:37] business and we talked about what's a
[2:24:39] nonprofit earlier. Their founding
[2:24:41] members are different tri county
[2:24:43] councils amongst the state. My
[2:24:46] understanding, and again, I'd rather
[2:24:48] hear this from them, there's a lot of
[2:24:50] money on the table. Whenever there's a
[2:24:52] lot of money, I think the taxpayers
[2:24:54] should be informed before this comes to
[2:24:56] a council, any council, with a time
[2:24:59] stamp. Oh, we have to have this done in
[2:25:01] the next 30 days or it's not going to
[2:25:03] happen. That has always led to us making
[2:25:08] worse decisions and better decisions. So
[2:25:10] my ask is that in October we invite
[2:25:13] Maryland broadband here to do our work
[2:25:15] session for you similar to the one they
[2:25:17] did to the Tri County Council so that
[2:25:20] the public can hear what what it is
[2:25:22] they're working on so we know. Thanks.
[2:25:35] » Mike Goldberg, Y Comico County. It's
[2:25:38] lunchtime. I'll try to keep my comments
[2:25:39] to under three hours. [laughter]
[2:25:43] Cell 7 at the landfill. Substantial
[2:25:46] completion was supposed to have been
[2:25:47] achieved or is represented to us that
[2:25:49] substantial completion would have been
[2:25:50] achieved by August 17. Uh here we are
[2:25:54] September 15th almost a month late. Um
[2:25:57] this concerns me because we know that uh
[2:26:01] there is all kinds of different
[2:26:03] information coming in with regard to the
[2:26:05] design schedule that um held up the
[2:26:09] project for going out for construction
[2:26:11] bidding. Um, we know that the county
[2:26:15] executive was no less than 18 months
[2:26:17] late in starting this process and this
[2:26:20] was such a critical issue that the
[2:26:23] executive had proposed that we would
[2:26:25] shut down the landfill incrementally
[2:26:28] which would not have reduced the volume
[2:26:30] of trash going into the landfill. It
[2:26:32] only would have created the backup. Um,
[2:26:35] so, uh, I remain concerned that we're
[2:26:38] going to wind up, uh, painting ourselves
[2:26:41] into a corner and not having the reserve
[2:26:44] space. I don't know. We haven't heard
[2:26:46] anything from public works. Um, I hope
[2:26:48] that the county council will compel the
[2:26:51] Department of Public Works to appear
[2:26:53] before this council in the very near
[2:26:55] future so that we can get an update on
[2:26:58] the status of construction of cell 7 so
[2:27:00] that we don't have a problem in the
[2:27:02] future. And it would also be very
[2:27:04] interesting to know what the status is
[2:27:05] of the next dredge uh project in the
[2:27:08] Wcomo River. That's all. Let's eat.
[2:27:10] Thanks, Mr. Goldberg.
[2:27:13] >> Any other comments?
[2:27:17] Seeing none, council comments.
[2:27:20] >> I just want to say I'm happy that we
[2:27:22] passed the emergency um legislation for
[2:27:25] the nursing home. I also suggest I see
[2:27:29] um Tracy here that um the concerns is
[2:27:32] the facility itself. We have a building
[2:27:36] inspector and also a code in uh
[2:27:39] enforcement. I would suggest to save
[2:27:42] money instead of hiring a outside force
[2:27:46] for the staff that we have here to go
[2:27:50] into the building and go piece by piece.
[2:27:54] you're not going to be able to do it all
[2:27:55] in one day, but to look at things that
[2:27:58] have to be fixed,
[2:28:02] um, roofing, heating, plumbing, holes in
[2:28:06] the walls, whatever it is to bring that
[2:28:09] and bring that before
[2:28:12] a planning committee or commission, what
[2:28:14] needs to be done so people can figure
[2:28:15] out what it's going to cost to get these
[2:28:18] things prepared. That's one suggestion.
[2:28:21] And um I'm just happy to see that people
[2:28:24] came out in the morning and we have the
[2:28:27] work session with these folks and I hope
[2:28:30] we can fix your concern hopefully. Um
[2:28:35] but um I'm just glad to see everybody
[2:28:37] and I'm happy with the outcome of the
[2:28:40] legislation.
[2:28:46] » Okay. Any other council comments?
[2:28:50] I I did attend the Tri County Council
[2:28:53] meeting that you referred to, Mr. White,
[2:28:55] and uh Broadband did make a presentation
[2:28:57] and I support that idea of having them
[2:28:59] come here. I actually had thought about
[2:29:00] that. You uh stole my thunder, but
[2:29:03] they're doing some amazing work. I do
[2:29:05] agree with your comments as far as
[2:29:06] there's a lot of money. Uh I I believe
[2:29:08] well, as you mentioned, I don't recall
[2:29:10] the numbers. They are a nonprofit, I
[2:29:12] think. Uh but there, you know, certainly
[2:29:15] are some big projects that they're
[2:29:16] planning and I think it would be very
[2:29:17] worthwhile. I think they've got a great
[2:29:19] story to tell. Um, not to belabor the
[2:29:23] nursing home too much longer, but I I
[2:29:27] took quite an exception to some of the
[2:29:29] comments that were made last uh meeting
[2:29:31] at the podium. Uh, comments like there
[2:29:34] was no emergency at [clears throat] the
[2:29:36] nursing home. Uh, statement there was
[2:29:39] only four letters. I I you know, that
[2:29:42] might have been a misstatement. You
[2:29:43] know, that it doesn't matter what came
[2:29:45] forth as a letter. There were some 94
[2:29:48] correspondences
[2:29:50] uh that uh that were shared with the
[2:29:51] executives
[2:29:53] um that there that the statement was
[2:29:56] made that no effort uh to sit with the
[2:29:59] administration on the council uh behalf
[2:30:01] and the nursing home administrator to
[2:30:03] evaluate uh available information and it
[2:30:06] was mentioned earlier and I and I I I
[2:30:09] don't think there has been any uh amount
[2:30:11] of of effort made to come before the
[2:30:14] council especially in light of some of
[2:30:16] the recent most recent financial uh wos
[2:30:20] that are that are being projected. Uh
[2:30:22] you know this this administration has
[2:30:25] been in in office like the rest of the
[2:30:27] council except for myself for 3 years.
[2:30:28] So I I [snorts] believe there should be
[2:30:30] some oversight. It is Wcomoku County.
[2:30:32] We're going to go back and look at the
[2:30:33] entity and all that. But if if everyone
[2:30:36] would indulge me, I we got a letter
[2:30:38] yesterday which I think perfectly
[2:30:41] describes the situation from a resident
[2:30:44] uh a a son a son of a resident. And if
[2:30:48] you will uh I won't read the whole
[2:30:49] thing. I would like to put this enter
[2:30:51] this as far as public comments. The
[2:30:53] letter itself uh this is by Mr. Brooks.
[2:30:57] Full transparency. I've known him since
[2:30:59] he was a child. We haven't seen or
[2:31:01] talked to each other for 40 years. So
[2:31:03] this was unsolicited. This just came to
[2:31:04] our email yesterday. Bear with me. Our
[2:31:08] family is not new to this facility and
[2:31:10] we are not occasional visitors. My
[2:31:12] father is there every day. We personally
[2:31:14] feed my mother and all her meals and I
[2:31:16] spend substantial time there myself. I'm
[2:31:20] not comparing Wcomo Nursing Home today
[2:31:22] to an imaginary standard of perfection.
[2:31:24] I com I am comparing it to the nursing
[2:31:27] home our family has actually known for
[2:31:29] more than 5 years. My mother lives
[2:31:31] there. The decisions being made about
[2:31:34] this facility ultimately reach her
[2:31:35] bedside. The facility was never perfect,
[2:31:39] but following the administrative
[2:31:41] transition earlier this year, we be we began experiencing a concentration
[2:31:46] uh of concerns distinctly different from
[2:31:49] our prior prior experience.
[2:31:52] Changes in the frequency of nature uh in
[2:31:54] and nature of skin injuries, bruising.
[2:31:56] We observed delays in personal and
[2:31:59] incontinence uh care uh occasions when
[2:32:02] my mother remained in bed for extended
[2:32:04] periods, delays obtaining assistance,
[2:32:07] and concerns about consistency and
[2:32:09] continuity of care.
[2:32:12] Uh he goes on to be equally clear that
[2:32:14] this was not uh the reflection on the
[2:32:17] employees that were providing firsthand
[2:32:20] uh care. and I and he basically explains
[2:32:23] that they're probably under quite a bit
[2:32:25] of pressure because there's less staff.
[2:32:28] We've experienced new leadership before.
[2:32:30] When my mother entered Wcomako Nursing
[2:32:32] Home more than 5 years ago, Patricia
[2:32:34] Leon Tenture was herself relatively new
[2:32:37] administrator. We did not witness this
[2:32:40] level of employee departure, workplace
[2:32:42] negativity, disruption or concern during
[2:32:45] that transition.
[2:32:48] Leadership presence matters too. Despite
[2:32:50] the amount of time our family spends in
[2:32:52] the facility, I rarely see the uh
[2:32:55] administrator Fosski visibly engaging
[2:32:57] with residents.
[2:32:59] I recognize that an administrator has
[2:33:01] private and administrative
[2:33:03] responsibilities, but the working of the
[2:33:05] Wakcomo nursing home is not simply a
[2:33:08] business operation. It's a pe it's
[2:33:10] people's home. I'm not asking the
[2:33:13] council to accept every allegation as
[2:33:15] fact, but when concerns about
[2:33:16] leadership, communication, workplace
[2:33:18] culture, turnover, and engagement come
[2:33:20] from multiple directions, they deserve
[2:33:22] independent examination. And equally,
[2:33:24] I'm glad we passed this today. This is
[2:33:26] why legislative bill 202611 matters. The
[2:33:30] protection of vulnerable residents
[2:33:32] should not depend entirely upon one
[2:33:33] administrator, one county executive, one
[2:33:36] nursing director, and or any other
[2:33:38] individual. There must be transparency,
[2:33:41] accountability, meaningful res uh
[2:33:43] resident and family input, and somewhere
[2:33:46] independent to turn when uh some someone
[2:33:50] independent to turn to when serious
[2:33:52] concerns arise. Oversight is not
[2:33:54] punishment. Overset oversight is
[2:33:56] protection.
[2:33:58] Um and couple more, I'll be done.
[2:34:02] Wakcomo nursing home exists because
[2:34:04] Agatha Pulp refused to accept what
[2:34:07] happened when her father needed care. He
[2:34:09] was denied access to nursing home care
[2:34:11] simply because of the color of his skin.
[2:34:14] Decisions made by people with the power
[2:34:16] to say no left a vulnerable man and his
[2:34:18] family without somewhere to turn. Agath
[2:34:21] Pope did something about it. Um,
[2:34:25] and I'll just close with one more. Uh my
[2:34:28] mother cannot stand before you and ask
[2:34:30] to uh ask you to protect her. Many
[2:34:32] residents of the Wakcomo nursing home
[2:34:34] cannot speak for themselves either. I'm asking you to hear their voices
[2:34:40] through those of us who not who cannot
[2:34:41] speak for them. And when the future of
[2:34:43] this legislation is before you, uh speak
[2:34:46] for them through your actions. So, I
[2:34:49] took the time to say that because I was
[2:34:51] really uh
[2:34:53] upset,
[2:34:55] whatever, by some of the comments that
[2:34:57] were made. And to totally dismiss what I
[2:34:59] know, I I think I've got a fairly good
[2:35:01] judgment and can hear is really
[2:35:03] legitimate concerns. And to dismiss them
[2:35:05] off-handedly,
[2:35:07] I won't use Miss Shield's [laughter]
[2:35:10] description of how it makes me feel, but
[2:35:12] it makes me feel the same way. So,
[2:35:14] anyway, thank you for Thank you for
[2:35:15] indulging me that time. No, you did,
[2:35:18] Jeff.
[2:35:20] Um, I'm gonna pile on the nursing home
[2:35:24] thing here. I appreciate y'all coming
[2:35:26] out and, uh, everybody that's tuned in,
[2:35:29] watching us. Uh, goes without saying
[2:35:31] that the nursing home situation is where
[2:35:33] a lot of our efforts
[2:35:35] have been recently. I've met and spoken
[2:35:38] with family members, employees, past,
[2:35:42] present, retired, and terminated to
[2:35:46] determine what the problems are exactly.
[2:35:48] And more importantly, how do we get to a
[2:35:50] solution?
[2:35:52] We're getting mixed messaging and
[2:35:54] conflicting information that is making
[2:35:56] this process very difficult.
[2:35:59] We have to separate fact from fiction
[2:36:02] and hearsay.
[2:36:04] If it's not down on paper, in print, in
[2:36:08] a video, in some type of something that
[2:36:11] will hold up in court, we can't rely on
[2:36:14] it.
[2:36:15] We've been told that the county has no
[2:36:17] role in the operation of the nursing
[2:36:19] home, yet we have two highlevel county
[2:36:20] officials who spend a lot of time there
[2:36:23] every week.
[2:36:25] We understand at a recent staff meeting,
[2:36:27] the conversation was very aggressive and
[2:36:29] intimidating and at one point saying
[2:36:31] that if the employees didn't back off,
[2:36:34] the state was going to come in there
[2:36:35] with a team of people with body cams and
[2:36:38] guns and interview everybody.
[2:36:45] We [clears throat] see the blame game
[2:36:46] going on. It's easy to blame somebody
[2:36:48] for something when they're not present
[2:36:51] to share their side of the story.
[2:36:53] We see the efforts being made to
[2:36:55] discredit the work of the previous
[2:36:56] nursing home administrator
[2:36:59] who is never present to share her side
[2:37:02] of the story and that is not right nor
[2:37:04] is it fair.
[2:37:06] Leading by intimidation is not leading,
[2:37:10] it's ruling and the my way or highway
[2:37:13] approach has never worked.
[2:37:16] I should state that we have been advised
[2:37:18] by legal counsel that when an employee
[2:37:20] contacts us with a concern, we need to
[2:37:22] advise them of the grievance policy in
[2:37:24] the handbook about addressing their
[2:37:27] concern with their supervisor.
[2:37:30] Well, that's wonderful except when your
[2:37:32] grievance is with your supervisor.
[2:37:38] You should never be afraid to share your
[2:37:40] concern or have it properly and
[2:37:41] professionally addressed without fear of
[2:37:45] retaliation or having a target put on
[2:37:48] your back.
[2:37:50] Let's look at the facts.
[2:37:52] The nursing home is not a county
[2:37:54] department or agency. Therefore, it is
[2:37:57] not included in the charter.
[2:38:00] So those that say that this legislation
[2:38:03] violates the charter,
[2:38:06] that shoots that argument down.
[2:38:10] Since our last meeting, the resident
[2:38:12] population is down.
[2:38:14] Several more staff members have resigned
[2:38:16] or turned in their resignation. I
[2:38:19] believe we're up to 20 now since April
[2:38:22] the 9th.
[2:38:24] I've run several businesses in my life
[2:38:27] and thankfully I was never faced with a
[2:38:29] turnover rate like this. But if I was, I
[2:38:32] would immediately assess the situation
[2:38:34] and work towards a solution.
[2:38:37] Definitely not the way it's being
[2:38:39] handled right now. How can we get the
[2:38:41] resident population up when we don't
[2:38:45] have the employees to properly care for
[2:38:47] those residents?
[2:38:50] I've asked all the people that I've
[2:38:52] spoken with the same questions.
[2:38:55] The least concern that I've heard is I
[2:38:58] left because of the money.
[2:39:01] In every single conversation that I've
[2:39:03] had, they all have one common
[2:39:05] denominator.
[2:39:06] Toxic work environment.
[2:39:09] I've attended all the press conferences,
[2:39:12] including the town hall at First Baptist
[2:39:14] Church,
[2:39:15] not to talk, but to listen, cuz I wanted
[2:39:18] to hear what everybody had to say.
[2:39:21] And when you have over 200 people show
[2:39:23] up at a church for 2 and 1/2 hours on a
[2:39:25] Monday night,
[2:39:28] that's not a bunch of disgruntled
[2:39:30] employees, as they've been called.
[2:39:33] That is a group of people with concerns
[2:39:35] that need to be addressed.
[2:39:38] We need to fix this sooner than later.
[2:39:40] My concern is for the residents, their
[2:39:43] family members, and the employees. The
[2:39:45] longer this goes on, the harder it will
[2:39:47] be to find qualified employees to work
[2:39:50] there. The family members are tired of
[2:39:52] seeing the facility that their loved
[2:39:54] ones reside in on the news every night
[2:39:58] and in the newspaper. [snorts]
[2:40:01] All this could have been solved early on
[2:40:05] when these issues came to light.
[2:40:08] with a simple conversation and sharing
[2:40:10] of information.
[2:40:13] When these issues arose, supposedly
[2:40:14] after Miss Fosski was hired and became
[2:40:16] aware of the situation, the executive
[2:40:19] should have picked up the phone or sat
[2:40:21] down at her computer and typed an email
[2:40:24] or called the county or the council
[2:40:26] president and requested a work session
[2:40:29] or a conversation to get this process
[2:40:31] started. That's right.
[2:40:32] >> That never happened. Instead, as I said
[2:40:36] before, we started hearing from family
[2:40:38] members, employees,
[2:40:41] past and present, about what's going on
[2:40:43] over the nursing home. We had no idea
[2:40:44] what was going on because once again,
[2:40:47] we're in the dark.
[2:40:50] We're in a need to know position and
[2:40:52] apparently we didn't need to know until
[2:40:55] not only the fire was lit,
[2:40:57] but it was a three- alarm fire.
[2:41:00] Other examples of this thing, this
[2:41:03] situation in the past are removing two
[2:41:05] recycling stations with no notice to the
[2:41:08] council or to the public that still
[2:41:10] exists today.
[2:41:13] We all remember Safari at the quarry
[2:41:15] where a motorized event was planned and
[2:41:17] none of the residents at the adjoining
[2:41:19] property was even contacted
[2:41:23] for any concerns. Council found out
[2:41:26] about that on social media.
[2:41:30] Then there was a plan to close the
[2:41:31] landfill last year. July 1st, they were
[2:41:34] going to close the landfill on Saturdays
[2:41:36] to preserve space in the landfill.
[2:41:39] Council found out about that from a text
[2:41:42] message from a hauler who was at a
[2:41:43] haulers meeting saying, "Did you guys
[2:41:46] know about this?" We did not.
[2:41:51] All of these examples the council has
[2:41:52] been in the dark
[2:41:54] and we find out from the public or on
[2:41:56] social media. This is not how to solve
[2:41:59] the problems. This creates problems.
[2:42:02] To solve a problem, we need to focus on
[2:42:04] the solution and not on assigning blame.
[2:42:08] This method has worked for me for
[2:42:10] decades and in many life situations.
[2:42:15] I thank you for your time and I'm always
[2:42:18] ready to listen to your concerns. We
[2:42:21] might not agree, but I will listen to
[2:42:23] you, Mr. President. Thank you.
[2:42:27] Um yeah, thanks everybody for um coming
[2:42:31] today and watching on TV.
[2:42:34] Um
[2:42:35] I've left the nursing home issue without
[2:42:38] saying a whole lot in the past few weeks
[2:42:42] um to kind of let it shake out.
[2:42:46] Today was um a good day as far as
[2:42:48] passing this emergency legislation. I
[2:42:51] feel
[2:42:54] we'll see where it goes from there. This
[2:42:56] council's only got a few more weeks and
[2:42:59] um it'll be up to new council to take it
[2:43:02] from there. And then I want to address
[2:43:05] two other things today. Um one is the um
[2:43:08] $10,000 for the Christmas lights and the
[2:43:10] other one is the possibility of hiring a
[2:43:13] new uh intern for the internal auditor.
[2:43:19] I love Christmas lights and I don't want
[2:43:21] to sound like the Scrooge here, but um
[2:43:25] and I was going to vote against that and
[2:43:28] then I decided listening to them talk
[2:43:29] they would just take taking the money
[2:43:31] from um
[2:43:33] tourism. They could have done that
[2:43:34] without even coming to the council.
[2:43:36] Apparently my understanding is correct.
[2:43:40] Um
[2:43:41] but I want to go over some things. So,
[2:43:43] we have in the audience today some folks
[2:43:45] from a mobile home park on the west side
[2:43:47] of the county that's upset about the
[2:43:49] property taxes um that we're going to
[2:43:52] work on after when we go into work
[2:43:54] session.
[2:43:56] Um
[2:43:58] we got the nursing home again hanging
[2:44:00] over our head. We don't know what that's
[2:44:02] going to cost.
[2:44:04] Believe me, it's going to be some cost
[2:44:05] to it before it's over with.
[2:44:09] We had the Verizon building
[2:44:11] sitting there empty.
[2:44:16] We had a fire service agreement
[2:44:18] still hanging out there.
[2:44:22] Cell 7 at the landfill. Dredge sparls.
[2:44:27] I heard some screaming and yelling out
[2:44:29] in the hallway a while ago. I don't know
[2:44:30] what that was all about, but um go
[2:44:32] security. There's nothing ever been done
[2:44:35] about that yet.
[2:44:38] That's just some of the issues that the
[2:44:40] county has. Let's talk about personal
[2:44:42] issues. Let's talk about gas prices,
[2:44:45] diesel fuel prices,
[2:44:47] price of your electric bill.
[2:44:53] You know, all this adds up and we
[2:44:58] it doesn't seem like government ever
[2:44:59] cuts back and um on spending.
[2:45:04] So,
[2:45:06] there'll be a new council here and I
[2:45:08] hope I hope maybe they're they'll be a
[2:45:11] little more conservative and responsible
[2:45:13] with u with the money
[2:45:16] after the election. Thank you.
[2:45:19] >> Thank you, Joe. Any other comments?
[2:45:24] Seeing none council comments, um I would
[2:45:26] like to thank the the public as a whole
[2:45:28] and the community as a whole as well as
[2:45:30] the council, uh Mr. Benson and Mrs.
[2:45:33] Hurley uh for helping us work through
[2:45:36] this minutia of topics and accusations
[2:45:39] that we've been faced with over this
[2:45:40] last month. Been doing this quite a
[2:45:42] while and this is one of the most
[2:45:44] contentious ones I think we've I've ever
[2:45:45] had to face. But I think we have a
[2:45:47] really really good bill and that goes
[2:45:50] really that you have to attribute that
[2:45:52] to the input that we received from the
[2:45:54] community and again for what Mr. Benson
[2:45:56] and Mrs. Hurley helped this council with
[2:45:59] in trying to review every single detail.
[2:46:01] We have tried to do this best we could
[2:46:03] as quickly as possible and government
[2:46:04] doesn't usually run act that that fast.
[2:46:07] So I appreciate it. Um I always have to
[2:46:10] smile when the comment quite a while ago
[2:46:13] was made that this council only works
[2:46:15] two days a month. That's all you have to
[2:46:17] do. Two days a month and everything else
[2:46:19] is free. This is about 30 hours a week
[2:46:22] when you have stuff like this. Uh
[2:46:24] constant phone calls. So anyway um
[2:46:28] thanks to the community and we hope that
[2:46:30] you like this bill. We think it'll be a
[2:46:31] great bill and moving forward we'll we'll get it all back in order
[2:46:35] like it's supposed to be. I have to read
[2:46:38] a very complicated motion to adjourn and
[2:46:40] it is complicated. So bear with me if
[2:46:42] you don't mind. Like to make a motion to
[2:46:44] adjourn to go into an open work session
[2:46:46] followed by three closed work sessions
[2:46:48] as follows. One to consult with legal
[2:46:50] excuse me one which is a personnel
[2:46:52] matter in reference to the director of
[2:46:54] public works to protect the
[2:46:55] confidentiality of the discussion. A
[2:46:58] second to consult with legal counsel in
[2:47:00] reference to the Hobbs Road property to
[2:47:01] protect the county legal position. Then
[2:47:03] to consult with legal counsel in
[2:47:05] reference to the Porter Mill Road dev
[2:47:07] tank to protect the uh uh the county's
[2:47:09] legal position. Uh keeping in mind that
[2:47:12] the council will be reconvening as well
[2:47:14] with the urban services commission and
[2:47:16] then in close session with the urban
[2:47:18] services commission to consult with
[2:47:20] legal uh and potential litigation.
[2:47:22] That's a motion.
[2:47:25] I'm sorry if you can just read the um
[2:47:28] legal authority for those.
[2:47:29] >> Thank you.
[2:47:30] >> Yeah.
[2:47:32] [laughter]
[2:47:34] » Pursuant to section I'm pursuant to
[2:47:36] section 3-305 B178
[2:47:40] of the general provisions article of the
[2:47:42] code of Maryland. I thought it done so
[2:47:43] well. That's a motion there. Motion
[2:47:46] second. All those in favor say I.
[2:47:49] >> We are adjourned. As I said before,
[2:47:50] we're going to take a half hour recess
[2:47:52] if you don't mind. I know there are
[2:47:53] several people here who have been very
[2:47:55] patient and I appreciate that
[2:48:07] » I think so. Yeah,
[2:48:10] >> we're reconvening this comic county
[2:48:12] legislative session 2026-9
[2:48:15] for September 15th, 2026.
[2:48:18] The uh first item on the open work
[2:48:20] session is the mobile home park tax. I
[2:48:21] believe we have a Mr. Michael Hawkins
[2:48:23] here. Um, this is in reference to Wcom
[2:48:26] County Code section 16914.
[2:48:30] » Yes, sir. Thank you.
[2:48:32] >> Mhm.
[2:48:32] >> I'm not quite sure how this working
[2:48:33] session works so together.
[2:48:35] >> That's all right.
[2:48:37] >> That's okay.
[2:48:37] >> Yes, that' be perfect. You can just uh
[2:48:39] for the public uh state your name and
[2:48:41] your position so it all recorded.
[2:48:43] Thanks.
[2:48:46] » Hi, thanks for having me today. I am
[2:48:48] Michael Hawkins. Uh my company recently
[2:48:51] acquired Hebrron Woods. It's a
[2:48:53] manufactured housing community uh in
[2:48:55] Wakcomo County. Uh during my acquisition
[2:48:59] due diligence, it came to my attention
[2:49:01] that the prior owner of the community
[2:49:04] was not paying the Wak Wakcomo County
[2:49:06] mobile home tax in full became a central
[2:49:09] issue of the deal and I was not willing
[2:49:12] to close on the acquisition of the
[2:49:14] community until this tax was solved.
[2:49:17] As a result, I fa I became fully
[2:49:19] immersed into the history of the mobile
[2:49:21] home tax both with the state of Maryland
[2:49:24] and with the county.
[2:49:26] During my discussions, it was shared
[2:49:28] with me that the mobile home tax is
[2:49:29] similar to the gasoline tax. Individuals
[2:49:32] go to the pump, they pay for the gas,
[2:49:34] they don't realize there's a tax built
[2:49:36] into this. The Wakamako County mobile
[2:49:39] home tax has been around since 1978.
[2:49:43] And to my knowledge, most of the
[2:49:44] residents and some of the government
[2:49:46] officials I spoke with weren't aware of
[2:49:48] this tax.
[2:49:50] But I'd say the only real similarity
[2:49:52] between the mobile home tax and this
[2:49:55] gasoline tax
[2:49:57] is that people just weren't aware of it
[2:50:00] and they didn't know it exist.
[2:50:03] If I told you
[2:50:06] that the gasoline tax only applied to
[2:50:09] veterans, seniors, people on fixed
[2:50:12] incomes, you come back to me and you'd
[2:50:15] say
[2:50:17] four words.
[2:50:19] That's not fair. That is not fair. The
[2:50:23] mobile home tax doesn't name those
[2:50:24] groups directly, but applying this tax
[2:50:27] only to the residents of a mobile home
[2:50:29] community.
[2:50:30] Effectively taxes and penalizes a
[2:50:33] specific segment of the population.
[2:50:36] The mobile home tax doesn't apply to an
[2:50:38] apartment, single family home, condo
[2:50:41] owner, town home resident, or a resident
[2:50:45] of a gated community.
[2:50:47] Only the mobile home residents pay this
[2:50:49] tax. It's biased and it's against some
[2:50:53] of the most vulnerable people in the
[2:50:54] community. These residents are trying to
[2:50:57] make ends meet. They're seniors, their
[2:50:59] working families, their individuals with
[2:51:01] limited financial resources,
[2:51:04] and they rely on manufactured housing as
[2:51:06] their primary
[2:51:08] and sometimes only affordable option for
[2:51:10] home ownership. A 15% tax on monthly
[2:51:14] housing
[2:51:16] is significant
[2:51:18] and may force some of these residents to
[2:51:20] choose between their housing costs and
[2:51:22] other basics necessities, food,
[2:51:24] medicine, and utilities.
[2:51:26] Every day, the news cycle talks about
[2:51:29] affordability. Housing affordability is
[2:51:31] at a 30-year low based on some studies.
[2:51:35] Manufactured housing communities are
[2:51:36] almost always the most affordable option
[2:51:40] for households that live below average
[2:51:42] incomes. The 15% Wcomo mobile home tax
[2:51:45] increases the home ownership cost and
[2:51:48] makes housing less affordable for the
[2:51:50] very residents that need the housing the
[2:51:52] most.
[2:51:54] One of my mentors taught me and he said,
[2:51:56] "Always be careful using the f-word.
[2:51:58] It's an emotional trigger, can derail a
[2:52:01] discussion, and I've watched it happen
[2:52:02] when politicians and business people
[2:52:04] continually drop the f-bomb. So, I don't
[2:52:08] use it lightly,
[2:52:10] but I'll say it today. The Waccomo
[2:52:13] mobile home tax is not fair. It truly
[2:52:17] impacts some of the most vulnerable
[2:52:18] residents of the county.
[2:52:22] Finally, I want to acknowledge something
[2:52:23] above my pay grade and um and and Mr.
[2:52:27] Holloway addressed it. Uh I I know that
[2:52:30] if there is a discussion around this
[2:52:33] mobile home tax. Um there's going to be
[2:52:36] a challenge to to solve the budget hole
[2:52:39] that has been created
[2:52:42] and there's a potential issue that needs
[2:52:44] to be addressed. However, I don't think
[2:52:47] this potential shortfall should be the
[2:52:48] reason the county keeps the mobile home
[2:52:50] tax. There's other revenue levers the
[2:52:52] county can pull that are equitable and
[2:52:54] don't focus on one specific segment of
[2:52:56] the population such as this tax.
[2:52:59] My agenda today is to provide a brief
[2:53:01] history of the mobile home tax based on
[2:53:04] my research into the state of Maryland
[2:53:06] and Wcomo County to share information
[2:53:08] how other counties have addressed this
[2:53:10] within Maryland. Some have repealed it
[2:53:12] and finally to highlight some key
[2:53:14] questions and concerns that I've got for
[2:53:17] the for the council to consider. Uh my
[2:53:20] goal is for the council to gain a
[2:53:21] greater understanding of the mobile home
[2:53:22] tax
[2:53:24] and hopefully conclude it's no longer
[2:53:26] relevant and it's not equitable to the
[2:53:28] residents of Wcomo Countyy's mobile home
[2:53:30] communities.
[2:53:32] >> Hey, Mr. Hawkins.
[2:53:34] >> Joe, um you said that when you bought
[2:53:37] the um mobile home park that um you
[2:53:42] hadn't been paying the taxes,
[2:53:44] >> correct?
[2:53:45] >> Properly.
[2:53:45] >> Correct.
[2:53:46] >> How long had that gone on for? My
[2:53:48] understanding was since he owned it, he
[2:53:49] bought it in right around 2021, he was
[2:53:52] paying $10,000 a quarter, so $40,000
[2:53:55] annually.
[2:53:56] >> Mhm.
[2:53:56] >> Um based on the last year, the total tax
[2:54:00] due in my estimation and what I expect
[2:54:02] that I'll be paying is $120,000.
[2:54:05] >> Was that that that far behind?
[2:54:06] >> Correct.
[2:54:07] >> Uh-huh. And then there was a settlement
[2:54:10] with with the county that I saw the
[2:54:14] documentation that the county approved
[2:54:15] of his final payment of $341,000
[2:54:19] to settle this tax liability.
[2:54:20] >> So he settled that before you purchased
[2:54:22] the property.
[2:54:23] >> I would not close on it until this was
[2:54:25] >> Uhhuh. That's right. So when you got it, was clear.
[2:54:28] >> Correct.
[2:54:28] >> And everything was clear.
[2:54:29] >> Correct.
[2:54:30] >> Okay. We don't, you know, we've got some
[2:54:32] stuff here. Um,
[2:54:34] we really do. Do you have anything from
[2:54:36] the county executive's office about
[2:54:38] mobile home park?
[2:54:40] >> We actually um on your table is um some
[2:54:44] information that was provided this
[2:54:46] morning.
[2:54:46] >> Oh, okay. All right.
[2:54:49] >> Um but we we just got it this morning.
[2:54:51] >> Okay. All right. When you get your tax
[2:54:53] bill, um you made the comment that um
[2:54:57] you thought it was unfair um because
[2:54:59] this tax was applied to the residents of
[2:55:02] the mobile homes.
[2:55:04] I didn't think this tax was applied to
[2:55:06] the residents of the mobile homes. I
[2:55:08] thought this the law states that the
[2:55:09] taxes applied to the owner of the mobile
[2:55:11] home. Is that correct?
[2:55:14] >> Based on my research, I mean, how about
[2:55:17] your personal circumstances? Yes. So,
[2:55:20] I'm responsible for paying the tax,
[2:55:22] >> right? Okay. So, I have to collect the
[2:55:24] tax and remit it. In essence, um the the
[2:55:29] responsibility is 15% of gross charges.
[2:55:32] There is a conversation if it's gross
[2:55:35] charges collected or total gross charges
[2:55:39] and then I am supposed to remit as the
[2:55:41] owner of the community 13%
[2:55:44] to the county.
[2:55:45] >> It says total gross to total gross and I
[2:55:47] thought that was complicated too because
[2:55:49] then if you're going to go ahead and
[2:55:50] bill your tenants the 15% without that
[2:55:54] 15% you're going to get taxed 15% on
[2:55:56] that. uh which I thought was sort of a
[2:55:59] convoluted way to even suggest it, but
[2:56:01] um what what could you say when you
[2:56:03] receive your property tax bill? Um do
[2:56:06] you basically are you how is your tax um
[2:56:10] calculated aside from the 15% when you
[2:56:13] get your basic tax bill? Is it for land
[2:56:15] only? Is it for land and improvements?
[2:56:17] >> Land and improvements.
[2:56:18] >> And and how do they calculate the
[2:56:20] improvements? Do they take it from the
[2:56:23] Cuz are you the owner of the mobile
[2:56:24] homes as well? Yeah, the residents own
[2:56:27] their own home.
[2:56:28] >> So, what improvements do they do they
[2:56:29] include?
[2:56:30] >> So, we've got a maintenance shed, we've
[2:56:32] got a private well, we've got a
[2:56:35] wastewater treatment plant.
[2:56:36] >> Okay.
[2:56:37] >> We've got the roads. We've got the
[2:56:38] infrastructure.
[2:56:40] >> So, in essence, for me, the company, we
[2:56:43] own the land. The residents pay us rent
[2:56:47] each month for that land. They own their
[2:56:49] own,
[2:56:50] >> right?
[2:56:52] um and in billing the tenants because I
[2:56:56] wasn't aware that you could do that. I
[2:56:58] wasn't aware that um because this is but
[2:57:01] this is all new to us. So I wasn't aware
[2:57:03] that you could actually issue an
[2:57:05] independent bill for the taxes to the
[2:57:07] individual tenants. That rent was rent
[2:57:10] and that's what you were obligated to
[2:57:12] charge your tenants to live there. I'm a
[2:57:15] landlord as well and I don't send them a
[2:57:17] separate bill for water. I don't send
[2:57:19] them a separate bill uh for their gas or
[2:57:22] their electric unless it's a multi-unit
[2:57:24] complex. But when I charge someone rent,
[2:57:27] I know I have to pay property taxes.
[2:57:29] >> Mhm.
[2:57:29] >> And I
[2:57:30] >> I pay the property taxes
[2:57:32] >> and I and I pay a lot of property taxes
[2:57:34] and I I don't send any of my clients,
[2:57:36] any of my tenants,
[2:57:38] >> Yeah.
[2:57:39] >> of a a bill for rent and then say,
[2:57:42] "Okay, and here here are the property
[2:57:44] taxes you're going to pay for me as
[2:57:45] well." I just don't do that. So that's
[2:57:46] why I had a bit of a aversion to that
[2:57:50] >> and and obviously I mean my discussion
[2:57:53] here is about this mobile home tax. I
[2:57:55] acknowledge I'm responsible for it. I
[2:57:58] wanted to highlight and when the
[2:57:59] research that I did when the state of
[2:58:02] Maryland after World War II, you know,
[2:58:05] came to this mobile home tax to allow
[2:58:07] the counties to charge this,
[2:58:09] >> it was done because the residents were
[2:58:11] not paying taxes on their home. So to
[2:58:16] me, when I went back through this, this
[2:58:18] is a resident's responsibility. I'm
[2:58:20] supposed to collect it, but I wanted to
[2:58:22] highlight obviously that this is a
[2:58:25] separate tax that it's going to impact
[2:58:27] the overall residence because it's and
[2:58:29] it's going to limit my ability to do
[2:58:31] improvements in the community, to hire
[2:58:33] more staff, to do other things. But once
[2:58:36] again, I understand that I am ultimately
[2:58:38] responsible for this tax and I have
[2:58:41] >> I don't see where it's a tax that you're
[2:58:42] supposed to collect from your residents.
[2:58:44] It's a tax that you're supposed to pay
[2:58:45] as the owner.
[2:58:49] And I always thought that possibly the
[2:58:51] reason they did that, and I don't know,
[2:58:52] we have we have to go through a little
[2:58:54] few more miles to try to figure this
[2:58:55] out.
[2:58:56] >> Um, and and the council doesn't have any
[2:58:58] aversion to to trying to re-evaluate our
[2:59:00] taxes and our property taxes. This is a
[2:59:03] relatively conservative council, so
[2:59:04] we're not really tax friendly about
[2:59:06] anything. Um, we don't, you know, we
[2:59:08] have a um a revenue cap in Wcomu County.
[2:59:12] been protecting that for 20 years
[2:59:13] because we don't want to pass it on to the uh to the constituents. But um I
[2:59:19] we're trying to figure out and I as I
[2:59:21] say stated before there are certain
[2:59:22] guidelines I think in place whether you
[2:59:24] like the state of Maryland or not. I
[2:59:26] think they kind of put some stipulations
[2:59:28] in place more recently where um there
[2:59:32] are limitations as to what a landlord
[2:59:34] can apply as a rent to the homeowners.
[2:59:38] And I'm just we're trying to sort
[2:59:39] through that. Tracy, I know you're here.
[2:59:41] I don't know if you're here for
[2:59:42] specifically this, but I don't know if
[2:59:44] you can help us with any clarification
[2:59:46] on that.
[2:59:50] Can I
[2:59:52] >> Yeah, I guess one of the things that
[2:59:54] made this fire up is when you started
[2:59:57] charging this tax where all the other
[3:00:01] mobile home parks are paying it also,
[3:00:04] but they're assuming that payment within
[3:00:07] their land rent. So, I mean that's
[3:00:10] >> there there are certain other
[3:00:11] communities that I'm aware of that are
[3:00:13] doing it the way that I set it up.
[3:00:15] >> Makamico,
[3:00:16] >> correct? Um, and that's what I was
[3:00:19] following. That's been you this is my
[3:00:22] first community that I've owned in the
[3:00:24] state of Maryland. And so when I did the
[3:00:26] research and then once again I wanted to
[3:00:29] highlight that this is not something
[3:00:32] that I'm collecting. This is not
[3:00:34] something that I am making any money off
[3:00:36] of. Um, and that's the reason why I
[3:00:39] broke it out separately. Um, now once
[3:00:43] again,
[3:00:45] I am responsible for it and and I know
[3:00:48] that I have to pay it. That's the law.
[3:00:52] Even I I can disagree with it or not
[3:00:54] agree or what have you, but I know I've
[3:00:56] got to pay it.
[3:00:57] >> So, you you decided just because you
[3:01:01] could, you separated it from your land
[3:01:03] rent,
[3:01:04] >> correct?
[3:01:05] >> Yeah.
[3:01:05] >> Correct. based on my research and my my
[3:01:09] [snorts] discussions with other parties
[3:01:11] that that was allowed to be done
[3:01:14] with the understanding that then we
[3:01:18] would have this conversation because to
[3:01:20] me it didn't seem equitable based on a
[3:01:23] mobile home community relative to other
[3:01:26] places to live.
[3:01:30] So if I if I buried it and didn't do it
[3:01:32] then we wouldn't be having this
[3:01:34] conversation. Once again, the prior
[3:01:36] owner of this community, he wasn't
[3:01:38] paying the full tax. And uh together, I
[3:01:41] highlighted this. Um I want to make sure
[3:01:43] that people are well aware of this is
[3:01:45] happening because I think it
[3:01:46] disenfranchises
[3:01:47] an affordable place to live.
[3:01:50] >> If you could let for the record just
[3:01:52] >> Sure. Tracy Taylor, planning director,
[3:01:54] Wakcomo County. Um I've spent a lot of
[3:01:57] time reviewing chapter 169, which is the
[3:02:00] mobile home park chapter. And you'll see
[3:02:03] from my memorandum that I sort of
[3:02:05] outlined the responsibilities within the
[3:02:07] context of 169 for the various
[3:02:09] departments in the county. In that
[3:02:12] chapter, it defines the lency as the
[3:02:15] person, firm or corporation that is
[3:02:17] granted the license. So in that case, um
[3:02:20] that would be Mr. Hawkins for in the
[3:02:22] case of Hewood specifically. when we get
[3:02:25] to chapter 160 or the section of chapter
[3:02:27] 169 which is 16914 where we talk about
[3:02:30] the levy of this tax and we can talk a
[3:02:32] little bit about the history of that if
[3:02:34] you want um but it says every person
[3:02:37] firm or corporation licensed to operate
[3:02:41] and conduct a mobile home park or parks
[3:02:43] in Wcomako County under existing laws or
[3:02:46] regulations there are to pay a monthly
[3:02:48] tax computed at 15% of the gross monthly
[3:02:52] charges collected by the mobile home
[3:02:54] So it's very clear in chapter 169 that
[3:02:57] the intent of the tax would be paid by
[3:02:59] the lency. What we see and we've done
[3:03:02] our research too in the case of the 18
[3:03:05] mobile home parks in Wcomakico County
[3:03:08] historically that tax has been if they
[3:03:11] factor that into whatever they charge
[3:03:13] for lot rent they may do that and I
[3:03:15] think Mr. Hawkins has conveyed that to
[3:03:17] me in the case of one mobile home park
[3:03:19] specifically when they charge the lot
[3:03:22] rent that is the gross receipts for each
[3:03:25] of the individual lots in the mobile
[3:03:27] home park and then they are they
[3:03:29] calculate from the lot rent the 15%
[3:03:33] which it really isn't 15% paid to the
[3:03:35] county because there's a 2% deducted for
[3:03:38] an administrative fee for the collection
[3:03:40] fee so actually they they remit 13% to
[3:03:44] Wcomamico county. The mobile home parks
[3:03:47] in this county have historically taken
[3:03:49] that out of their profit, which is their
[3:03:51] lot rent. It's been factored into the
[3:03:53] lot rent. That's what the previous owner
[3:03:55] had done. We can talk about, you know,
[3:03:57] not paying the full amount later if
[3:03:58] you'd like, but that's the process in
[3:04:01] which it's been done. This is the first
[3:04:02] case that we've seen where um an owner
[3:04:06] has chosen to charge the 15% in addition
[3:04:08] to the lot rent. And by doing that,
[3:04:11] quite frankly, it's it really results in
[3:04:14] a deacto lot rent increase because what
[3:04:16] used to be, in the case of Hein Woods, a
[3:04:19] lot rent payment and then the owner
[3:04:22] would then pay the 13% out of that lot
[3:04:25] rent has now turned into that same lot
[3:04:27] rent payment and then an additional 15%
[3:04:30] on top of that, which He Woods was
[3:04:33] charged 15% on top of that. Even though
[3:04:36] 13% is really the amount, we did meet
[3:04:39] with Mr. Hawkins and we did convey that
[3:04:41] by charging that as a separate fee that
[3:04:43] is a gross receipt again. So then that's
[3:04:45] also subject to the 15%. Um in our
[3:04:48] interpretation, but that's still being
[3:04:50] debated. So I don't I won't say that
[3:04:52] that's a definite because that's
[3:04:53] something that the finance director
[3:04:55] should speak to rather than me. Um
[3:04:57] >> just to be clear, I I'm paying it's $84
[3:05:01] of the lot rent on top of the 560. as an
[3:05:05] example, I'm paying the 15% on 560 plus
[3:05:09] 84. There's no debate about that. So,
[3:05:12] I'm not scraping anything. That
[3:05:13] iterative calculation in essence, I'm
[3:05:16] not getting the 2% because that's how
[3:05:18] I'm calculating. So, just
[3:05:20] >> so the 560 that was charged in Heinwoods
[3:05:24] prior to this ownership, the 13% would
[3:05:28] have been taken from the 560. Now the
[3:05:31] owners are getting charged the 560 plus
[3:05:33] the $84.
[3:05:36] >> He was the prior owner was assuming that in the lot rent
[3:05:40] >> and that's what we have in our other
[3:05:41] mobile home parking as well. We're not
[3:05:43] seeing anybody reporting it as a
[3:05:45] separate line item charge. Well,
[3:05:47] regardless of the charge, and you know,
[3:05:51] they can charge, I guess, whatever they
[3:05:52] want to within the law, but I think most
[3:05:56] people, not everybody, but a lot of
[3:05:58] people that move into a mobile home park
[3:06:01] do it for two reasons. One is is
[3:06:04] economics, right? And then the
[3:06:07] simplicity. Okay, the simplicity is,
[3:06:10] okay, I own this mobile home. I'm put it
[3:06:11] in this park and I'm going to pay land
[3:06:12] rent. I don't have to pay land rent. I
[3:06:16] don't want to I don't have to pay that
[3:06:17] plus taxes plus water plus So, you know,
[3:06:21] I I think that's I think that's probably
[3:06:23] one of the problems. You know, it's the
[3:06:25] simplicity part of it that other than
[3:06:29] the money. The money is a big part, but
[3:06:31] people, you know, they they don't want
[3:06:33] to get into the I guess you call it the
[3:06:35] nuts and bolts of that's why they go
[3:06:37] there. You know, it's like moving into
[3:06:39] an assisted living place, you know, they
[3:06:41] go there because everything's taken care
[3:06:43] of. And so,
[3:06:44] >> right. And I I will mention to the
[3:06:46] council that this isn't the only um
[3:06:48] situation that I'm dealing with right
[3:06:49] now. We have at least one other mobile
[3:06:51] home park that's been recently sold to
[3:06:54] an LLC where they are considering now
[3:06:56] charging the water as a separate rate to
[3:06:59] the mobile home um lot renters. And
[3:07:03] we're just seeing more and more of this
[3:07:05] where these separate fees are being
[3:07:07] proposed in addition to the lot rent. My greater fear is that what we've
[3:07:12] considered, you know, with our mobile
[3:07:13] home parks to be an affordable housing
[3:07:15] option, especially for elderly and
[3:07:17] handicapped and disabled, we are we're
[3:07:20] seeing now that the lot rents it, they
[3:07:22] could be, you know, outpriced from this
[3:07:24] standard of living that they're used to.
[3:07:26] So, that's my larger concern and that's
[3:07:28] a separate concern from whether this tax
[3:07:29] exists or not. And quite frankly,
[3:07:32] there's nothing the county can do, my
[3:07:34] department can do, as much as I'm
[3:07:35] dismayed by it, to prevent it. We don't
[3:07:38] have an we don't we don't have an
[3:07:40] instrument to prevent like Mr. Hawkins
[3:07:43] decides to charge it in this manner. We
[3:07:45] don't have an instrument in place to
[3:07:47] prevent that from happening other than
[3:07:49] for me to talk to you about how it has
[3:07:52] been historically charged and and what
[3:07:53] situation we're dealing with now. If the
[3:07:56] council were to decide, and you'll see
[3:07:58] that in my memo, if the council were to
[3:08:00] decide to reduce or eliminate the tax,
[3:08:03] um that would certainly provide an
[3:08:05] immediate relief. Um but then my bigger
[3:08:07] fear is what we have in the way of lot
[3:08:09] increases in general and mobile home
[3:08:11] parks and in this county and I know
[3:08:14] delegate um sample Hughes is concerned.
[3:08:16] I think she's suggesting even putting in
[3:08:18] legislation this session to address this
[3:08:21] problem. We had a similar problem a few
[3:08:23] years back, three or four years back
[3:08:25] which uh
[3:08:27] I worked with delicate sample Hughes
[3:08:30] because there's that that huge problem
[3:08:32] where a company came in from Florida and
[3:08:34] then doubled and tripled the rental
[3:08:35] amount. So, uh she became immediately
[3:08:38] engaged in that community and did pass
[3:08:41] legislation to the state of Maryland.
[3:08:42] [clears throat] I thought that
[3:08:43] legislation restricted rental increases
[3:08:46] from new owners so that they could not
[3:08:48] there was a limitation as to how much
[3:08:49] they could increase their rent. Mhm.
[3:08:51] >> Are you familiar with what those
[3:08:52] >> It's um can't be more. Is it 10% 10% for
[3:08:56] the first 3 years?
[3:08:57] >> And and just to be clear, that's why I
[3:08:59] broke it out.
[3:09:01] >> Well, I would think so because I if if
[3:09:03] you guys do this, you'll see the lot
[3:09:05] rent for me stay at that number. It's
[3:09:08] not It's not going that $84, it goes
[3:09:11] away.
[3:09:13] >> Well, and I understand. I mean, you
[3:09:14] know, if you can only raise it. Did you
[3:09:16] raise the 10%. I mean, you don't have to
[3:09:17] tell me. Well, and and and that's
[3:09:19] another discussion.
[3:09:20] >> I'm not worried about that's I don't
[3:09:22] need to get into the personal personal
[3:09:23] issues of it,
[3:09:24] >> but that's what it appears is if you
[3:09:25] know instead of because there's the
[3:09:27] restriction of the 10%. Well, let's not
[3:09:28] call it rent anymore. Let's property
[3:09:30] taxes. Exactly. And I don't know if that
[3:09:32] could be um [clears throat]
[3:09:35] circumventing this law. And and I don't
[3:09:37] know legally because I'm not an
[3:09:38] attorney. And I don't know if there's
[3:09:42] any attorneys here. And and I apologize
[3:09:44] because I don't think we've really asked
[3:09:47] you to review this yet. But I think the
[3:09:49] issue might be as to whether or not uh
[3:09:52] when you're saying that you're charging
[3:09:53] someone rent, then you can all of a
[3:09:54] sudden add additional costs to those
[3:09:58] individuals based on [clears throat] the
[3:09:59] current statute. and we don't know that.
[3:10:01] >> So, um I did reach out when this became,
[3:10:04] you know, an issue. I did reach out to
[3:10:08] DHCD, Department of Housing, Community
[3:10:10] Development at the state to see if there
[3:10:11] was any assistance they could provide.
[3:10:13] Unfortunately, they could not. But I
[3:10:15] also reached out to Shore Legal Access
[3:10:17] because that does provide proono legal
[3:10:19] services for it would have certainly
[3:10:22] wouldn't have been the county, it would
[3:10:23] have been the constituents. And I do
[3:10:25] think and I don't want to speak for
[3:10:26] them, but I do think there has been some
[3:10:27] movement on the part of the constituents
[3:10:29] to look into it. And I think one of the
[3:10:32] things that shore legal access was
[3:10:33] concerned with was the very situation
[3:10:36] that you just described that this would
[3:10:38] by charging in this way, it does be look
[3:10:41] to appear like a de facto um lot
[3:10:44] increase and they were going to look
[3:10:46] into that. But I as planning director, I
[3:10:49] could not go any further with this other
[3:10:52] than to do that initial outreach because
[3:10:54] I'm limited to what I have control over,
[3:10:57] which is what's within this chapter. I
[3:11:00] think you I think there's going to be a
[3:11:01] hard time collecting in court,
[3:11:02] especially with those new new attorneys,
[3:11:04] and I won't express my disdain for those
[3:11:07] attorneys in public, but I would tell
[3:11:10] you that um they're going to say rent is
[3:11:12] rent. This happens quite often
[3:11:14] [clears throat] where a lot of times
[3:11:15] when you go to landlord tenant court,
[3:11:17] you of course incorporate the whatever
[3:11:19] the water bills might be that in a case
[3:11:21] that the tenant does owe water bills and
[3:11:23] very seldom electric, but you try to
[3:11:25] incorporate that in the total balance
[3:11:27] due from the tenant that's owed. But the
[3:11:29] courts will very quickly try to strip
[3:11:31] you from that and say no, no, no, this
[3:11:32] is landlord tenant. This we're only
[3:11:34] going to allow a judgment on the rent
[3:11:36] alone and the rest of it if it's going
[3:11:39] to be separated out would have to be in
[3:11:40] small claims court. That's that would be
[3:11:43] a concern that I might have too
[3:11:46] com maybe just recapping but you know
[3:11:49] it's a matter of choice as to whether or
[3:11:51] not uh as the owner as as to whether or
[3:11:53] not you break it out or not. Uh you made
[3:11:56] the choice and you were pretty
[3:11:57] transparent as to the reason why because
[3:11:58] effectively you've got an $84 or
[3:12:01] whatever the percentage is increase. I
[3:12:03] mean at the end of the day that's what's
[3:12:05] happened. And by breaking it out, you
[3:12:07] know, you you you you're you may be
[3:12:09] staying, I don't know the laws well
[3:12:10] enough, underneath of the threshold by
[3:12:13] which you're allowed to increase. But
[3:12:15] really, that's what we're talking about
[3:12:17] is they just got net an increase.
[3:12:21] And the [clears throat] the idea of
[3:12:22] breaking it out or not is a choice that
[3:12:24] you can make as the owner. But it but it
[3:12:27] just it just you know segments it so
[3:12:29] that um either the pressure comes down
[3:12:31] on the county to do something about it
[3:12:34] uh about the tax to begin with which is
[3:12:35] another larger issue uh or it just keeps
[3:12:38] you underneath a threshold by which you
[3:12:40] would be called called to uh called on
[3:12:43] that by by [clears throat] increasing
[3:12:45] over the threshold. Is it does that have
[3:12:47] I captured
[3:12:48] >> you have
[3:12:49] >> what's going on here properly? Yeah.
[3:12:53] I guess the the role here could possibly
[3:12:56] be and I don't know if it's our role but
[3:12:59] uh I think um the only thing that's come
[3:13:01] to light with this is that a lot of us
[3:13:03] were going what is cuz I read that I
[3:13:05] went 15% are you kidding me? Uh so but
[3:13:08] we were having so much trouble finding
[3:13:10] any documentation that even just has the
[3:13:12] justification for why that 15% was
[3:13:14] implemented. We have we've gone through
[3:13:17] tons of stuff. We think some of it's
[3:13:20] >> I might add typ the other way like we
[3:13:23] own communities in other states.
[3:13:25] >> Mhm.
[3:13:25] >> Mobile homes are treated just like a
[3:13:28] vehicle.
[3:13:28] >> Mhm.
[3:13:29] >> So the DMV collects a tax. Maryland
[3:13:31] hasn't done it that way.
[3:13:33] >> Mhm.
[3:13:33] >> So Maryland was setting up this taxing
[3:13:36] system so that I as the landlord pay a
[3:13:38] property tax and there is a resident tax
[3:13:41] paid on that home. Once again, my
[3:13:45] interpretation, the way I look at this,
[3:13:47] that is therefore a tax on the resident.
[3:13:51] Like despite what's and and that's what
[3:13:53] I wanted to highlight as part of this.
[3:13:55] Um, but that's the way that I read
[3:13:58] through the research. That was the
[3:14:00] intent of what they were trying to do as
[3:14:02] opposed to just doing it like the other
[3:14:04] 49 states and saying this is in essence
[3:14:06] a vehicle and we're going to collect a
[3:14:08] tax just like we do on on a car tax.
[3:14:11] They only collect that one time when
[3:14:13] it's sold.
[3:14:15] Car tax is only collected. Car tax.
[3:14:17] >> Oh, in Maryland that's the way. So in
[3:14:18] Virginia, you have an ad valorum tax. So
[3:14:20] I pay a tax on my car every year.
[3:14:22] >> No. Okay. Now you buy you buy tags every
[3:14:25] year, too. But
[3:14:26] >> yeah. Yeah. So I have to pay it and and in Florida's the same way. Um so
[3:14:30] that's how they're that's how the state
[3:14:31] is getting to that tax of the home.
[3:14:33] >> So yeah. Well, don't give Governor Moore
[3:14:36] any ideas, [laughter]
[3:14:38] you know.
[3:14:39] >> Trust me.
[3:14:40] >> Believe me. Anyway, um I I'm just
[3:14:42] looking at the now this you're saying
[3:14:44] it's $84 a month, correct?
[3:14:46] >> Assuming a rent of $560, which is the
[3:14:48] rent
[3:14:49] >> for the majority of the residents at
[3:14:50] Hebrron Wood. So, it's 15% of 560. $84.
[3:14:54] >> I'm looking at I'm looking now we're
[3:14:56] getting at from why you're doing this,
[3:14:59] but I'm looking at these other counties
[3:15:01] with mobile home tax. $15 a month in
[3:15:04] Charles County. Dorchester 15 $15 a
[3:15:07] month.
[3:15:09] It's Georgia's $5 a month. I can't
[3:15:11] believe anybody on that side that today
[3:15:12] is cheaper than us. Um, and I guess
[3:15:16] there's only one county that's higher
[3:15:17] than us, and that's Cecil County.
[3:15:19] >> Um, but they do,
[3:15:22] um,
[3:15:23] >> and Calbertt.
[3:15:24] >> Calbertt's the one that was higher 20%.
[3:15:27] >> Calbertt and Cecil.
[3:15:30] >> Yeah, that's right. I'm sorry. Um, I've
[3:15:32] got Cecil at $20 per month with a $36 a
[3:15:36] year.
[3:15:37] >> Oh, yeah. $20, not 20%. Right.
[3:15:39] >> Yeah. So, it's only it's only um
[3:15:42] >> Cal County that's higher than Wak. So, I
[3:15:44] guess it's going to be up to this
[3:15:45] council to decide what what avenue we
[3:15:48] want to take if we take anything and
[3:15:51] take any avenue to to reduce this
[3:15:55] because
[3:15:57] by this meeting and you know, I'm sure
[3:16:00] other mobile home park owners are going
[3:16:03] to be scratching their head about what
[3:16:05] they're going to do in the future,
[3:16:07] whether they can do what you're doing or
[3:16:09] not. Apparently, what you're doing is
[3:16:10] legal. Um,
[3:16:14] so I guess it's going to be up to this
[3:16:15] council or the next council to the
[3:16:18] >> reality of it, we don't know. And I
[3:16:20] think others, our role as a council, I
[3:16:23] think, is going to be deciding what we
[3:16:24] want to do with the 15%. The the issue
[3:16:28] of how you uh apply it to your tenants.
[3:16:32] that's going to be an issue between you
[3:16:34] and the tenants and probably the state
[3:16:35] of Maryland because we don't have any uh
[3:16:37] we don't have any statute in Wanakico
[3:16:39] County that dictates that you can do it
[3:16:41] one way or the other. Uh if it exists,
[3:16:43] that would be part of the state statute,
[3:16:46] right?
[3:16:46] >> Um that was passed a couple years ago.
[3:16:48] So that's how that would probably break
[3:16:51] out. And again, um, from what research
[3:16:55] Stacy's done, I think legal and Stacy
[3:16:57] would also have to go back into this and
[3:17:00] find out exactly what the motivation
[3:17:02] was. Again, I think it was really
[3:17:03] because you pay um, you pay your land
[3:17:06] tax. And you know when you when you pay
[3:17:10] um any difference to that um such as for
[3:17:13] your um wastewater treatment plant and
[3:17:15] things like that as considered
[3:17:17] improvements it still doesn't cover what
[3:17:19] most government is worried about and
[3:17:20] that is the services that need to be
[3:17:22] applied to the people who are living in
[3:17:23] that home and that was really the
[3:17:25] purpose of the tax I believe. Um the and
[3:17:29] I think that's where this 15% comes from
[3:17:31] to offset that because the average home
[3:17:33] you're going to pay the land and you pay
[3:17:35] for the house done services accomplished
[3:17:38] in your situation. No. Uh you're paying
[3:17:40] for the land and you're paying for your improvements which is really just
[3:17:43] your wastewater treatment plant but
[3:17:45] nothing there to account for the actual
[3:17:47] citizens. So they said okay we have to
[3:17:48] do 15%.
[3:17:50] Um, and with this restriction was put in
[3:17:53] place a couple years ago, I think it
[3:17:55] was, you know, the intent was to not to
[3:17:58] continue to keep to create a burden on
[3:18:00] the tenants. Uh, and and that when you
[3:18:02] bought the ner the home, you had to you
[3:18:04] had to recognize that and budget
[3:18:06] accordingly.
[3:18:07] >> The the restriction, my understanding,
[3:18:10] um, was basically because there's some
[3:18:13] bad actors in this industry. Let's be
[3:18:14] really clear. Um, and they were coming
[3:18:17] in aggressively. sounds like it might
[3:18:19] have happened in your county from
[3:18:20] outside owners and really taking
[3:18:23] advantage of the ability to to drive
[3:18:25] rents by doubling them in some cases. So
[3:18:28] this was put forward so that when you
[3:18:30] buy a community I am limited by
[3:18:33] increasing rents by 10% for 3 years and
[3:18:36] that's that's the reason why it was done
[3:18:40] » and separate whether there's any part of
[3:18:42] that that statute that that actually
[3:18:44] more clearly defined what rent was going
[3:18:46] to be. I have no idea. I don't I don't
[3:18:48] either.
[3:18:48] >> Yeah. Right.
[3:18:49] >> I guess we need to really know [snorts]
[3:18:51] if if this tax is fair or not because
[3:18:55] and I don't know how we would take one
[3:18:58] lot out of your out of your um mobile
[3:19:02] home park. One lot with one mobile home
[3:19:06] on it double wide and compare that with the property taxes on that one lot.
[3:19:15] I don't know how we would come to that.
[3:19:16] You'd have to divide that, I guess, by
[3:19:18] the amount of property taxes you're
[3:19:19] paying by the number of lots you have
[3:19:23] and the value of that mobile home
[3:19:27] because you're up around $1,000 a year,
[3:19:32] right, for each okay
[3:19:34] >> and then
[3:19:37] on top of that, you got this this land
[3:19:40] rent, which I would say a mo a double
[3:19:43] wide like that on just a lot in Wakam O
[3:19:46] county.
[3:19:48] I would think if we looked at the tax
[3:19:50] records, you would find that that's
[3:19:52] probably about what the property taxes
[3:19:54] is on that
[3:19:57] piece of property. Okay. And I'm not an
[3:20:00] expert of that. That they would know
[3:20:02] more about that in the next building up,
[3:20:03] the brick, big brick building up the
[3:20:05] road here. But just seeing what other
[3:20:08] people's property taxes, I would suppose
[3:20:10] that just a building lot with a double
[3:20:13] wide on it, the property taxes might be
[3:20:15] about $1,000 a year, maybe 1,200, you
[3:20:18] know.
[3:20:20] So,
[3:20:23] is this 15%?
[3:20:25] Yes.
[3:20:25] >> You know, it sounds to me like it's a
[3:20:27] pretty die on high assessment to me.
[3:20:32] Really does. Um because then they're
[3:20:35] paying that property tax then they're
[3:20:37] paying the land rent which they don't
[3:20:38] own the land. You're furnishing water
[3:20:40] and sewer and all and I understand all
[3:20:41] that's worth that worth worth I suppose
[3:20:45] it is. So I think we need to be able to
[3:20:48] compare that some kind of way and then look at this 15%
[3:20:53] >> and say really a fair tax or not.
[3:20:55] >> Yeah. I don't know off the top of my
[3:20:56] head. I obviously haven't been
[3:20:59] reassessed for the acquisition of Hein.
[3:21:01] Um, but I can do the property taxes. I
[3:21:04] can separate it. So, it's 125 lots. 124
[3:21:08] are rent paying at at the community.
[3:21:10] >> Um, if you assume a,000 and then I can
[3:21:12] divide that based on the the amount of
[3:21:14] property taxes that I'm paying because
[3:21:16] I'm getting assessed on the value of the community I just bought. And I
[3:21:19] believe they do a cash flow analysis
[3:21:21] here in Maryland as well. Um, so they're
[3:21:23] taking into the account of what I'm
[3:21:25] collecting. That to me is double
[3:21:28] dipping. Um, but that's just my
[3:21:30] interpretation of it.
[3:21:32] >> Joe, uh, I was going to go down the same
[3:21:34] path Joe went, but I want to take it a
[3:21:36] step further. A,8,08
[3:21:40] is 84* 12. So if you, somebody correct
[3:21:43] me if my math is not correct. We're
[3:21:45] 80ent. So if you divide that, 108 by
[3:21:49] 0.008,
[3:21:51] you get $126,000.
[3:21:54] I I'm not Somebody checked my math. I'm
[3:21:56] not sure if that's right. So I I going
[3:21:58] down that same path. Somebody smarter
[3:22:00] than me can do this to evaluate, you
[3:22:02] know, what is fair and how how
[3:22:04] equitable, how even is it to property
[3:22:07] tax. At the end of the day, you know,
[3:22:10] it's I think the intent, we don't know
[3:22:11] what it was, but it was cover county
[3:22:13] services. And I did clearly hear the
[3:22:15] group say that they're they may not be
[3:22:17] enjoying as many services as other folks
[3:22:20] in the county. So all that being rolled
[3:22:22] up into some kind of a evaluation of
[3:22:24] fairness I think is where we where we
[3:22:27] need to go.
[3:22:27] >> He he's paying property taxes on that
[3:22:30] lot also.
[3:22:30] >> I I heard that too. Yeah, I heard that
[3:22:32] too. So that kind of goes
[3:22:33] >> another $200 on that per lot or $500 on
[3:22:37] that lot or a thousand, you know.
[3:22:39] >> No, that's a that is a a good point that
[3:22:41] needs to be considered, you know. Um so
[3:22:45] >> yeah, depends on what the how it's
[3:22:47] assessed. Go ahead.
[3:22:48] >> Just just one quick question. just
[3:22:49] trying to get an understanding also of
[3:22:50] uh you know traditionally you look at
[3:22:52] okay if it's a home does it is it own
[3:22:54] well and septic you know is it uh um
[3:22:57] who's taking care of the the other
[3:22:59] amenities or other things to go along
[3:23:00] with this I guess in this situation to
[3:23:02] hear you say you have a package plant
[3:23:04] water plant water treatment plant for
[3:23:06] this
[3:23:06] >> I I take care of the septic the waste
[3:23:08] water the water uh and then the the
[3:23:10] drinking water
[3:23:11] >> and the drinking water is that just
[3:23:13] >> well they're each one private wells for
[3:23:15] each lot right
[3:23:18] one central one central well that that I
[3:23:21] have to service
[3:23:22] >> I have tested daily um it's expensive
[3:23:26] but that's all included in the lot rent
[3:23:28] for the residents at this community
[3:23:30] >> and then to uh I guess paving of the
[3:23:31] roads that's done by the county
[3:23:33] >> n
[3:23:34] what about pipes any any infrastructure
[3:23:37] when you walk into that community I'm
[3:23:39] responsible
[3:23:40] >> do you have uh um um are there in most
[3:23:43] of our I don't maybe in this one here
[3:23:45] but are there in most of our um you know
[3:23:48] mobile home parks are there other
[3:23:50] infrastructure like the um you know fire
[3:23:53] suppression or anything like that like
[3:23:55] uh the city
[3:23:57] or their t or their trash pickup is that
[3:23:59] uh
[3:24:00] >> I cover the trash as well
[3:24:04] and there's no uh just um there's no
[3:24:07] fire hydrants right there
[3:24:09] >> um there are fire hydrants I believe yes
[3:24:12] there has to be so then um that so the
[3:24:14] 911 service I have to have make sure
[3:24:17] every home is marked for 911 to come
[3:24:19] through. So yeah, the fire and and
[3:24:21] obviously the police and and the first
[3:24:24] responders like that will come into the
[3:24:25] community if necessary. And and this is
[3:24:27] not in Hebrron officially
[3:24:30] and there's not most of these I'm
[3:24:31] looking at are where the the map of all
[3:24:33] of the u you know I think there's only
[3:24:36] one single one that's in a municipality.
[3:24:39] >> This one is not in a municipality. So
[3:24:41] there's a counties paying for the fire
[3:24:45] and emergency services.
[3:24:48] >> I would allow um
[3:24:50] >> it's unprecedented, but as a point of
[3:24:52] clarification without getting into any
[3:24:54] type of attacks, I would allow you to
[3:24:56] speak if you'd like to come to the
[3:24:57] podium and make a comment. Um the idea
[3:24:59] is for some type of clarification is not
[3:25:01] to attack Mr. Hawkins and or anything
[3:25:04] like that.
[3:25:05] The only clarification I have is we paid
[3:25:07] 560 a month and that included the tax.
[3:25:11] So when Mr. Hawkins took over or when
[3:25:14] real um Clear Trail took over, they did
[3:25:17] not deduct the 84 that we had been
[3:25:19] paying that was included, they added it.
[3:25:23] So, if we were if that tax was included
[3:25:26] in the 560
[3:25:28] and then he does the 560 and then adds
[3:25:31] the other 15%, he tax on the um $84 that
[3:25:35] was already previously included, he is
[3:25:38] benefiting, it's double dipping because
[3:25:40] if you if he says that um he shouldn't,
[3:25:44] you know, that he's got to pay it and we
[3:25:45] did. We were and it was by our lease
[3:25:48] that we had up through the end of the
[3:25:49] year that included all our como county
[3:25:51] taxes
[3:25:53] and Tracy knows that cuz she's got
[3:25:55] copies. So he kept the 84 in the 560 and
[3:25:59] then tacked on 84 and he's putting it
[3:26:02] down as rent. It isn't rent. It is a
[3:26:04] gross income tax which we can't
[3:26:09] ourselves be able to control whatever
[3:26:13] like the new people moving into the
[3:26:14] park. They're charging $650
[3:26:17] plus $97 tax.
[3:26:21] >> So, but what I'm saying is if he was
[3:26:23] going to if we had to pay the tax, we
[3:26:26] were paying 560 with their lease that
[3:26:28] included and our lease stated and he
[3:26:30] filled out the affidavit accepting
[3:26:32] everything the way it was, then the 84
[3:26:34] should have been deducted off. And
[3:26:37] again, that will be, as I stated before,
[3:26:39] I think that's going to be an issue that
[3:26:40] you're going to have to direct
[3:26:41] immediately with, or not immediately,
[3:26:43] but you're going to have to direct
[3:26:44] towards Mr. Hawkins based on a legal
[3:26:48] statute from the state of Maryland
[3:26:50] because this is nothing that's been
[3:26:52] implemented by WCOM County as far as how
[3:26:55] Mr. Hawkins may bill you. We just simply
[3:26:58] send the bill to Mr. Hawkins.
[3:27:00] >> So, he can double bill. Well, again,
[3:27:02] that's what I said that you may need
[3:27:04] legal representation to challenge that.
[3:27:07] It's nothing that there's no part of a
[3:27:09] county ordinance that might uh define
[3:27:11] one way or the other the breakdown of
[3:27:14] the costs that you're are now having to
[3:27:16] incur.
[3:27:17] >> So, even the law that you wrote in the
[3:27:18] 48 years ago, I'm 74 and you can check back, but a lot of times the uh
[3:27:25] Wcomo County did not want a whole lot of
[3:27:27] mobile home parks. And if you'll notice,
[3:27:29] Salsbury mobile home park is way far out
[3:27:31] compared years ago. Then the mall wasn't
[3:27:33] there and all that wasn't there.
[3:27:35] >> So they then, which I did some research
[3:27:38] also, included this 15% tax. Now
[3:27:42] Worcester and Somerset pay nothing. They
[3:27:44] did they did not do that. They felt the
[3:27:46] money and revenue that they got back
[3:27:48] from income tax, um, property tax, and
[3:27:51] their personal property tax was enough
[3:27:53] to cover what their stuff is. So that
[3:27:58] being said, they implemented this tax
[3:28:01] hoping that it also would not raise the
[3:28:03] rents on the people because back then,
[3:28:06] well, like 28 years ago, she paid 195.
[3:28:09] But years ago when they did this, cuz
[3:28:11] they did not like the parks. And if
[3:28:12] you'll notice, the parks are kind of
[3:28:14] scattered out from years ago,
[3:28:16] >> right,
[3:28:16] >> of what Central Salsbury was and county.
[3:28:20] And they definitely didn't want anything
[3:28:21] on Route 50. So that's why we have the
[3:28:24] mounds. Mr. bridge had to put mounds and
[3:28:26] everything that you could not see the
[3:28:27] mobile homes. But that's why it started
[3:28:29] and it was to keep the rents down, but
[3:28:31] yet it helped compensate some for the
[3:28:33] people. But now that rents are 560 or
[3:28:36] 600 a month, you're looking at 15%.
[3:28:38] These people that have worked their
[3:28:40] whole life and made minimum wage,
[3:28:42] they're lucky if they've got 13 $1,400 a
[3:28:45] month in social security and you're
[3:28:47] telling and affordable housing, but the
[3:28:49] countyy's telling me there's nothing
[3:28:50] they can do to help. Well, we understand
[3:28:52] that, but keep one thing to to try to
[3:28:55] >> tax is 15%.
[3:28:56] >> To try to I get that, but to try to to
[3:28:58] understand the perspective too. If we
[3:29:00] were to pass legislation tomorrow that
[3:29:02] eliminated the 15% tax, right? There are
[3:29:05] many there are many homes there are many
[3:29:08] mobile home parks right now where the
[3:29:10] tenants would never even benefit from
[3:29:12] that,
[3:29:13] >> right?
[3:29:13] >> Because this is the tax to the owner.
[3:29:16] Your problem is how your owner is
[3:29:18] implementing the tax and passing that on
[3:29:20] to you.
[3:29:21] >> But even your law saying you have to be
[3:29:23] licensed. We're not a licensed park
[3:29:25] owner.
[3:29:26] >> I however that breaks down, that's again that's the legal realm. I'm
[3:29:32] just trying to share with you the fact
[3:29:33] that the council certainly will look
[3:29:35] into the 15%
[3:29:38] uh simply based on whether or not it's a
[3:29:40] fair uh a fair tax overall.
[3:29:43] How it gets implemented and how it gets
[3:29:45] possibly passed on to the individual
[3:29:47] tenants, that's an individual that's a
[3:29:50] that's an issue between the actual
[3:29:51] tenants and the owner. It really is. I
[3:29:55] hate to tell you that, but again, we
[3:29:57] could cut it tomorrow. We could cut it
[3:30:00] tomorrow. Of course, you'd be you you'd
[3:30:02] still be paying the old 84 included in
[3:30:04] your rent, right?
[3:30:06] >> In other words, if we pass it, if we get
[3:30:08] rid of tax, your tax your your rent may
[3:30:10] go down.
[3:30:12] >> Well, but it's gone up and didn't go
[3:30:14] down when it
[3:30:15] >> Yeah. Well, that's the way it's being
[3:30:17] implemented. But if we [clears throat]
[3:30:18] try to look at at this from a a
[3:30:20] countywide perspective, uh the the 15%
[3:30:24] that we might remove, I would say the
[3:30:28] majority of the uh the tenants
[3:30:29] throughout Wcom County would never be
[3:30:31] impacted by it whatsoever. So, it's
[3:30:34] really something we're trying to uh to
[3:30:36] identify as to the justification for
[3:30:38] that 15%. And I I I understand, believe
[3:30:41] me, we empathize 100% with the way that
[3:30:43] the tax has been just transferred to
[3:30:46] each of you. I think the purpose of the
[3:30:48] restriction of the increases from a new
[3:30:50] owner was put in place simp strictly to
[3:30:52] avoid those type of problems. But that
[3:30:55] is that's where we are right now. And
[3:30:57] again, that's uh I would hope that it
[3:31:00] might be something that you you could
[3:31:01] work I don't I don't know how you're
[3:31:02] going to work it out, but I'm not one to
[3:31:04] recommend that to you either.
[3:31:05] >> Okay.
[3:31:06] >> And I appreciate Could you state your
[3:31:08] name for the record?
[3:31:09] >> Uh Pam Webster.
[3:31:10] >> Thank you, Miss Webster. Oh, I have a
[3:31:13] question for Mr. Hawkins.
[3:31:15] when you um added the $84 on to the that
[3:31:20] was already being paid in the land rent
[3:31:22] and added it on to the top for them to
[3:31:24] pay taxes. Why didn't you deliver the
[3:31:26] $84 off your land rent?
[3:31:29] >> Just to be clear, the prior owner wasn't
[3:31:31] paying it.
[3:31:32] >> Well, no, he he was paying it.
[3:31:34] >> He was paying part of it.
[3:31:35] >> He paid it in the end.
[3:31:36] >> He ultimately came came together.
[3:31:38] >> Yeah, but he was collecting it. But
[3:31:40] yeah, but he did pay it. Once again,
[3:31:42] >> that question was in Jest, not
[3:31:46] so.
[3:31:49] » Okay.
[3:31:52] Just clearly stating, I said it before,
[3:31:54] effectively, he got that increase. You
[3:31:57] know, we're kind of saying the same
[3:31:58] thing. He just broke it out. Uh, which
[3:32:01] is his prerogative as to break out, you
[3:32:03] know, uh, break that out. But it does, seem to, and I'm like you, I'm
[3:32:08] not going to advise somebody. seems to
[3:32:10] circumvent the uh the 10% max or
[3:32:13] whatever the rental increase rate may
[3:32:15] be. But uh effectively you you know that
[3:32:18] company got that increase. That's that's
[3:32:21] pure and simple. They got they got that increase. It's inconsequential
[3:32:24] whether who was paying taxes before or
[3:32:26] whatever. That was the increase that was
[3:32:28] achieved by
[3:32:30] uh
[3:32:30] >> and just just to be very transparent and
[3:32:33] clear. I could have closed on this
[3:32:35] community and I could have raised rents
[3:32:36] by 10% on day one. I didn't do that.
[3:32:40] you.
[3:32:43] » [laughter]
[3:32:44] >> I just want to say well
[3:32:45] >> I guess it's a matter of whether you're
[3:32:47] call
[3:32:50] whether you're calling it a I didn't
[3:32:51] want to highlight this if I didn't feel
[3:32:54] like this tax is something to address
[3:32:57] and I thought about this let's be really
[3:32:59] clear I would have closed on day one the
[3:33:02] 560 was the rent despite what people are
[3:33:07] saying that's what they were paying
[3:33:09] legally I would have been allowed to
[3:33:11] raise that by $56 $6 on day one. Um,
[3:33:15] >> right. But instead, you kept it where it
[3:33:17] was and added 85.
[3:33:18] >> Well, I wanted I wanted this to be
[3:33:21] visible on
[3:33:23] >> Well, you made it transparent. Very
[3:33:24] transparent. I get that. But, so I my
[3:33:28] view is I could have done that. Um, and
[3:33:33] I didn't want to do that because once
[3:33:35] again, I don't agree with this 15%
[3:33:37] mobile home tax. But the conversation I
[3:33:40] might have with the residents and I'm
[3:33:41] debating about doing it is say, "All
[3:33:42] right, I'll throw the talent. I'm sick
[3:33:45] of this argument. I was trying to do the
[3:33:47] right thing to to highlight that there
[3:33:50] is a tax that I don't think is is is is
[3:33:53] fair to these residents. Um, but I'll be
[3:33:58] done with it and then I can raise the
[3:33:59] rent 10%. I wasn't planning on doing it
[3:34:01] and then
[3:34:02] >> Well, I think if you and then I will
[3:34:04] make more money in the long run
[3:34:05] >> if you remove the 15% obligation on
[3:34:09] excuse me please thanks if you removed
[3:34:10] the 15% obligation tax obligation on
[3:34:13] your residence and just left it with a
[3:34:16] 10% increase on your rent I think they'd
[3:34:18] probably be satisfied with it
[3:34:21] I think they would I can walk them
[3:34:23] through the math where this is
[3:34:26] beneficial to me at the end of the day
[3:34:29] right now once again despite what people
[3:34:31] are saying I'm I'm trying to like I
[3:34:33] don't get any of this $84 I'm not
[3:34:36] scraping 2% I'm not collecting any of
[3:34:38] it. Um just the way the math works,
[3:34:42] >> right?
[3:34:42] >> I am collecting that. I am turning it
[3:34:44] over to the county.
[3:34:46] >> Right. Well, again, you know, our our
[3:34:48] role as a county is to evaluate the tax
[3:34:50] as a whole and and
[3:34:52] >> that's the discussion I want to have is
[3:34:54] that I think you got a tax out here
[3:34:56] doesn't feel right. We all talk about
[3:34:58] affordability. We all talk about, you
[3:35:00] know, what's happening today with rising
[3:35:03] prices.
[3:35:04] This is adversely impacting an
[3:35:08] affordable housing solution.
[3:35:11] >> I get the property taxes on every one of
[3:35:13] my rental properties every day. I absorb
[3:35:15] the cost and then I charge the rent. I
[3:35:17] mean, I do that every day.
[3:35:18] >> Property taxes. Once again, I'm paying
[3:35:20] property tax.
[3:35:21] >> So am I.
[3:35:21] >> Yeah. Pay it all. Yeah.
[3:35:23] >> So, just to be clear, I just want to
[3:35:25] make the statement and Mr. Hawkins and I
[3:35:28] have talked several times and it's not
[3:35:30] personal. We can agree to disagree. what
[3:35:33] has happened is a deacto lot rent
[3:35:35] increase. I mean, that's what you're
[3:35:36] both saying and that is in fact what's
[3:35:37] happened and it's beyond the 10% that
[3:35:40] the law would normally allow and that's
[3:35:41] what's happened. Let's just call it what
[3:35:42] it is.
[3:35:44] >> Where I have where I struggle with this
[3:35:45] besides that point, I also struggle with
[3:35:47] the messaging that went out to the
[3:35:49] residents. The original letter that was
[3:35:51] sent to the residents by Mr. Hawkins
[3:35:53] clearly placed the blame for this
[3:35:55] increase on the county. It was not It
[3:35:58] was not blame on the county. It was not
[3:36:00] the county. I think the terminology was
[3:36:02] the county's requiring me or forcing me
[3:36:04] to do this. The county doesn't have any
[3:36:06] say with the method for which the 15% is
[3:36:09] applied to the residents. That was a
[3:36:11] personal choice or a business choice
[3:36:14] that Mr. Hawkins and his company made.
[3:36:16] And so, you know, the deputy director of
[3:36:19] administration, Steve Lake, and I went
[3:36:20] to the community meeting and we both
[3:36:22] spoke at that meeting to make that clear
[3:36:24] that this was not this was a business
[3:36:26] decision for the way in which this
[3:36:28] increase was done. It was not a WCOM
[3:36:30] county forced decision. That was the
[3:36:32] original messaging and that's what got
[3:36:33] us literally dozens and dozens of
[3:36:36] letters and that was the need to respond
[3:36:38] with the county executive to the letter
[3:36:40] that's in your packet. So, I want to
[3:36:42] make sure that you all understand the
[3:36:44] full picture of how this has evolved and
[3:36:46] where my frustration lies was with the
[3:36:48] messaging of this. I can't and the
[3:36:51] county can't control the way in which he
[3:36:52] chooses to apply the tax obviously, but
[3:36:55] I think all of you very clearly see the
[3:36:57] end result of this, which it is a de
[3:36:59] facto lot rent increase. There's really
[3:37:02] no other way to to package it
[3:37:03] >> and that's up to the court system and
[3:37:05] >> absolutely the state of Maryland.
[3:37:07] >> Absolutely. I have one question for um
[3:37:09] Mr. Hawkins. If you kept the 15% and you
[3:37:12] paid the 15% tax, can't you deduct that
[3:37:16] off your taxes?
[3:37:21] Wouldn't that be a bill or expense?
[3:37:23] >> I mean, it is it is an expense. Um,
[3:37:27] so I I guess there is the possibility,
[3:37:30] but that doesn't really factor into kind
[3:37:31] of how I was thinking about it, but I I
[3:37:34] don't know the specific tax treatment of
[3:37:35] it.
[3:37:36] >> I mean, you pay taxes, don't you, on
[3:37:37] your you know, you pay property tax, but
[3:37:40] when you pay if you pay include the $84
[3:37:43] in your taxes that you pay every year.
[3:37:47] I'm not a business person per se, but I
[3:37:50] have I'm not stupid either.
[3:37:52] >> So,
[3:37:53] >> don't you take Wouldn't you take that
[3:37:55] off as an expense on your tax return
[3:37:59] that $84
[3:38:00] >> you talking about the current way or the
[3:38:02] prior way?
[3:38:03] >> I don't care what way it is. Don't you
[3:38:05] take when you take $84 the current way?
[3:38:08] >> 8 $84. You're you're charging them a
[3:38:11] month and you have 125 prophecies.
[3:38:16] That's what you said.
[3:38:17] >> 125 sites.
[3:38:18] >> 125. You multiply that 125 * 84. When
[3:38:23] you deduct that from your tax expense on
[3:38:27] your tax
[3:38:29] return because that would be an expense
[3:38:32] for you and it would help you decrease
[3:38:34] your taxes that you have to pay.
[3:38:35] >> Be a wash because he's getting it in and
[3:38:37] it's going out. It wouldn't
[3:38:39] >> I'm collecting I'm I'm collecting it
[3:38:41] from the residents and I'm paying it
[3:38:43] out.
[3:38:43] >> Yeah. Yeah. It'd be a wash. I have a
[3:38:45] question. We've lowered the tax rate in
[3:38:47] Wakcomo County.
[3:38:49] What was it when I came on here? A
[3:38:51] dollar and something.
[3:38:52] >> It was a dollar eight when I was on the
[3:38:53] [clears throat] council.
[3:38:54] >> A dollar8. And we're down to 77 right
[3:38:57] now.
[3:38:57] >> 77.
[3:38:58] >> Okay. So, we've lowered the tax rate a
[3:39:00] dollar. Let's see. 8
[3:39:02] 23. You know, we've low but this 15%'s
[3:39:06] never gone down.
[3:39:07] >> Isn't that relative though?
[3:39:10] >> No, this is a flat. This is a 15% on
[3:39:13] >> It's been 15% since 1978.
[3:39:16] >> Yeah, we've lowered the taxes, property
[3:39:18] taxes over the years. Of course,
[3:39:20] assessments gone up. So, I don't want
[3:39:22] anybody to get confused and say, "Oh, my
[3:39:24] taxes has gone down." Because they
[3:39:26] haven't because the assessments has gone
[3:39:27] up. But we've lowered the rate. But this
[3:39:30] hasn't this hasn't moved. Shouldn't that
[3:39:33] be reflected? It's like I said, I think
[3:39:34] we still need to revisit this, but we
[3:39:36] need a whole lot of information from
[3:39:37] finance and from uh
[3:39:39] >> from legal to
[3:39:41] >> to address that. But I get it. When I
[3:39:43] first saw the 15, I was shocked, too. It
[3:39:45] does equal out to almost the same as if
[3:39:47] you had an independent unit on that
[3:39:49] property,
[3:39:50] >> right?
[3:39:50] >> Uh as Dave did the math, it may it may
[3:39:53] even out, but it was
[3:39:54] >> and it's really not 15%. Keep in mind,
[3:39:56] it's really 13%.
[3:39:58] >> I understand. I I just want to make sure
[3:39:59] that you understand we what's remitted
[3:40:02] to the county is 13%.
[3:40:04] >> So like John [snorts] just said it kind
[3:40:06] of equals what I was talking about what
[3:40:09] Dave was talking about but then there's
[3:40:10] an additional tax on his property.
[3:40:13] >> Y
[3:40:13] >> okay
[3:40:14] >> so you know maybe there you know maybe
[3:40:18] this is an unfair tax. Um
[3:40:21] especially if it's not decreased any the
[3:40:24] 15%'s not decreased any since we've
[3:40:26] lowered the tax rate over 20. What? 27
[3:40:29] 27% 27 cents.
[3:40:31] >> We're we're quite a ways off and it's
[3:40:33] going to be another council honestly
[3:40:34] that's going to make their decision.
[3:40:35] That's just how the process is going to
[3:40:36] work. Mr. Hawkins, I mean, you made a a
[3:40:39] gracious gesture that, you know, maybe
[3:40:41] you'll try to regroup with them and with
[3:40:43] your uh with your tenants to try to ease
[3:40:46] this burden simply to make things
[3:40:48] better. You said it may be more
[3:40:50] profitable for you to do so. Well, if
[3:40:51] that's the case, then then that would be
[3:40:53] I think that would be a great win-win.
[3:40:55] So, we'll leave it at that because we
[3:40:57] can't determine that here at this table.
[3:40:58] >> No. And I and I think that's like I
[3:41:00] said,
[3:41:00] >> I don't think it'll be a win-win for the
[3:41:01] residents because he can do 10% a year,
[3:41:03] right?
[3:41:04] >> Correct.
[3:41:04] >> Yeah. And again, all I'm saying is as of
[3:41:07] right now, as as Tracy says, it appears
[3:41:09] to be a de facto as is, which could be a
[3:41:12] really huge legal challenge. It may
[3:41:14] benefit in the long run and and have
[3:41:16] that conversation as to whether they
[3:41:17] want the 10% or whether they want the 15
[3:41:19] because you could do the 10% plus the 15
[3:41:22] every year anyway. the 15 could stay,
[3:41:25] Joe, and the 10% would go every I wanted
[3:41:27] to be draconian. Correct. And I wouldn't
[3:41:29] do that. One of the thing, um, Tracy and
[3:41:31] I did talk about just for your research
[3:41:33] to go back on it, the fact pattern that
[3:41:35] I had about this tax as well.
[3:41:38] >> Um, as Tracy said, you're collecting 15%
[3:41:42] on gross charges based on the residence.
[3:41:45] So then I'm getting 2% if I was going to
[3:41:48] do it the right way as a collection. So
[3:41:51] once again, the fact pattern I had on
[3:41:53] this is I'm expected to go collect this
[3:41:55] tax from the residents and then I'm
[3:41:58] going to suffer if I can't collect the
[3:42:00] tax. That's making up these two points
[3:42:03] by doing this.
[3:42:04] >> I don't know why they gave you the 2%
[3:42:05] cuz you're not going to collect the tax.
[3:42:07] >> You're not you're just charging rent and
[3:42:08] you're paying tax to the government.
[3:42:10] >> That's that's the going out and
[3:42:11] physically collecting the tax. You are
[3:42:13] now maybe.
[3:42:14] >> Well, because that's how I that's when I
[3:42:16] went through this research. I read it is
[3:42:19] that I'm supposed to go collect this.
[3:42:21] It's not imposed upon the tenants. It's
[3:42:23] opposed upon the owner. So, you've
[3:42:24] already
[3:42:24] >> But then why' they set up this 2%
[3:42:26] scrape?
[3:42:27] >> That's That's
[3:42:27] >> That to me is total nonsense. That's where I kind of kept going down
[3:42:31] this pathway. This makes no sense.
[3:42:33] >> Well, let me wrap it up. Really
[3:42:34] appreciate you coming in. We do hope you
[3:42:36] do uh try to work through some type of a
[3:42:38] compromise with them. It would make
[3:42:40] everything much easier because it is
[3:42:42] going to go to the state level. I
[3:42:43] guarantee you it's going to get go to
[3:42:45] the state level because it's opened up
[3:42:46] another window and it may make things
[3:42:48] harder across the board. But thank you
[3:42:51] very much for coming in. Thank you.
[3:42:52] all for coming in. One more
[3:42:54] thing, you you have a nice park there.
[3:42:56] It's great. And I know a lot of the
[3:42:57] people that live in there, there's a lot
[3:43:00] of parks in Wakcomo County that isn't so
[3:43:02] nice. Don't price yourself out of
[3:43:04] business over there. you know,
[3:43:08] >> that's, you know, one of the reasons why
[3:43:10] I wanted to highlight this for the
[3:43:12] existing residents to make sure that
[3:43:13] they everybody knew about it. Um, so I
[3:43:16] appreciate that. And not to be a
[3:43:17] complete sickopant, this is my first
[3:43:19] county council meeting anywhere in 50 53
[3:43:22] years.
[3:43:24] >> I'm impressed with what you guys
[3:43:27] sitting up here. So, [laughter]
[3:43:29] >> well, we got we got one positive today.
[3:43:31] Thanks.
[3:43:32] >> You're better people than me. I will say
[3:43:34] that.
[3:43:34] >> I move to a journ. [laughter] Yeah,
[3:43:36] thank you very much. On that note,
[3:43:39] >> thank you Tracy. Thank you very much.
[3:43:43] >> Uh the next item Oh, excuse me. So,
[3:43:46] >> next item is adjourn, right?
[3:43:48] >> Yeah. So, entertain a motion to adjourn
[3:43:49] and go into close session. So,
[3:43:51] >> second.
[3:43:52] >> All in favor? Hi.
[3:44:10] » We're now convening as the Wcomu County
[3:44:12] Urban Services Commission uh for an open
[3:44:15] work session. Uh the first item on the
[3:44:17] open work session, oh, excuse me. I have
[3:44:20] to make a motion to go into a closed
[3:44:21] work session.
[3:44:24] Did you give me that to read as well? I
[3:44:26] did. What the heck I do with it?
[3:44:29] >> Did you give it to me and write it?
[3:44:40] I didn't throw it away
[3:44:48] just
[3:45:00] another one.
[3:45:05] » Can you tell him we're off the air?
[3:45:08] All
[3:45:28] right. Urban Services closed meeting
[3:45:30] statement. We got it. Entertain a motion
[3:45:33] to adjourn from open sessions the Urban
[3:45:35] Service Commission uh to go into a
[3:45:37] closed work session pursuant to general
[3:45:38] provisions article section 3-305B8
[3:45:41] to consult with staff, consultants, or
[3:45:43] other individuals about pending or
[3:45:44] potential litigation to protect the
[3:45:46] county's legal position. So move
[3:45:48] >> second.
[3:45:49] >> All those in favor say I.
[3:45:50] >> I oppose.
[3:45:53] Thank you.