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i

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d like to call the SEPTEMBER

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2nd, 2026 Wilmington Planning

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Commission meeting to order and

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ask that everyone please rise

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for the Pledge of Allegiance.

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Thank you for the United States

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of America, the republic for

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which it stands. One nation

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under GOD, indivisible, with.

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Thank you. I believe we have a

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full dais tonight. MR. Tierney,

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do we have a quorum? Yes.

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MR. CHAIRMAN.

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Thank you very much. The

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Planning Commission advises

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City Council on applications

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for rezoning, land Development

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Code amendments, street

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closures and long range plans

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and policies. A commission

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holds legislative hearings,

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meaning that anyone wishing to

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speak on a request MAY do so.

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The Commission issues a

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recommendation based on

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consistency of the request,

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with the intent and purpose of

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the Land Development Code and

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consistency of a request with

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the Create Wilmington

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Comprehensive Plan and other

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relevant adopted plans and

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policies. All matters requiring

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commission action shall be

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presented to the Planning

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Commission by the Planning

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Staff and the applicant. In

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situations where planning staff

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is the applicant, there will

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only be one presentation. City

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staff will make the first

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presentation. The applicant

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will make the second

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presentation to maintain an

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orderly meeting. All

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presentations shall proceed

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without interruption unless the

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Commission desires to intervene

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with questions or comments. The

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chair will open the public

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hearing for those physically

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present wishing to speak about

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an item. Those in favor of an

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item shall be heard first,

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followed by those opposed to an

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item. A ten minute time limit

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will be allowed for public

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comment in favor of an item,

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and a ten minute time will be

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allowed for public comment. In

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opposition to an item. A staff

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member will track the ten

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minute time periods, and we

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ll

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notify the speaker at the five

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minute, one and one minute mark

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and verbally call time when

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time expires. MISS Painter, the

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chair, in their discretion, MAY

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extend these time periods. All

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groups, organizations,

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neighborhoods, or similar

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associations desiring to

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comment are asked to appoint

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one spokesperson to present

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their concerns or point of view

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to the Commission on each

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agenda item. The public has

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been encouraged to submit their

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comments in writing via a web

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based form located on the City

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of Wilmington

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s website. All

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comments received prior to 3

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P.M. Today were forwarded,

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unedited to the Planning

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Commission, and all comments

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received will be delivered to

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the City Council. When the item

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advances. MISS Bradshaw, do we

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receive anything else other

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than what you sent us today?

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Nothing for since 3 P.M..

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Thank you. All votes will be

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roll call votes after the

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proper motions are made and

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consistency statements read

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into the record. The chair will

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state the outcome of the vote

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and the action. Rezoning

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requests that receive an

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unfavorable recommendation from

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the Planning Commission MAY be

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appealed by the applicant to

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the Wilmington City Council.

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Appeals should be in the form

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of a letter submitted to the

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City Clerk within ten days of

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this hearing. Any item that is

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appealed will be tentatively be

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heard by City Council at its

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OCTOBER 19th, 2026 meeting.

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First item of business will be

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approval of the JULY 8th

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meeting minutes. Do we have any

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comments or questions in

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regards to the minutes? Did I

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hear a motion to approve?

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I make a motion to approve the

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minutes.

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All those in favor? Aye. Any

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opposed? Thank you for item

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number one. We have a

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conditional district rezoning

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for properties containing 2.176

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acres located at 120 and 124

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Canal Street from our 20 l to

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resident. Sorry, our 20

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residential legacy district to

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our seven cd medium density

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single dwelling conditional

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district for an eight unit

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residential development and MR.

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Cherry will be presenting.

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Good evening, chair, Vice Chair

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and members of the Planning

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Commission. After your review

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tonight, I present a

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conditional district rezoning

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at 120 and 124 Canal Street.

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Um, a community community

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meeting was held in JULY prior

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to the application being filed

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with the city staff has

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reviewed and made the

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recommendation on this. And

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today is the first public

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hearing. This site is zoned r

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20, a low density residential

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legacy district. Um, the

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applicant is proposing to

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rezone this to an ar seven

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moderate density residential

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conditional district. Here is a

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vicinity map showing the site

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in a broader context. Near a

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summer rest trail. The summer

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rest community and near the

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right to the intersection

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between Eastwood Road and

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Wrightsville. The existing land

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use is a single, single family

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dwelling surrounded by mixed

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use, single family dwelling and

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commercial, but it

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s currently

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zoned r 20, like I mentioned.

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To the south is o and I, to the

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west is community business,

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conditional districts. Here are

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photos of the subject property.

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And views. Looking north, south

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and west on Canal Street. As

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you can see to the north at

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dead ends, there

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s a road

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terminus there. Um, and to the

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south is, uh, Eastwood Road.

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The applicant is proposing to.

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Construct eight townhome units

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with associated driveways and

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parking. Um, 16 parking spaces

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are provided of the 22 maximum

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allowed. Uh Stormwater

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Management permit will be

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required. Um 12 regulated and

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nine significant trees are

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proposed for removal, while

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five specimen trees will be

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retained. Here are concept

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elevations. This is from Canal

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Street looking onto the site.

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And here is a view from the

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rear from Motts Creek. The

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subject property is designated

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as an Intracoastal Tidewater

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Area of Opportunity on the

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city

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s growth strategy maps.

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Relevant policies to this are,

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um, focusing on preserving

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character and single family

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compatibility, including

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preservation of the National

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Register Historic District, and

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limit the number of driveways

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along parkways and loop road

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corridor types, encouraging

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shared access and a network of

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connected space, streets and

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pathways to create Wilmington

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Comprehensive Plan offers

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policy guidance to shape

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development in the city. Staff

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sets this application with

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relevant policies and found

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modest support for the

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application

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s alignment with

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the plan. Key policies that

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support rezoning the site to an

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r-7 conditional district

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highlight the need for compact

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development. Transitional

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buffers, increasing housing

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supply while protecting desired

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neighborhood character and tree

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preservation. Uh. During

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review, staff found one policy

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to not be aligned with this

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proposal. No comments or

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testimony were received in

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support of this proposal, and

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one comment which I believe has

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been provided to you today, uh,

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has been received in opposition.

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To summarize, rezoning from a

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low density residential

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district to medium density r-7

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conditional district on a 2.1

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acre site. Um stormwater

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management plan will be

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required. Five specimen trees

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will remain, will be retained,

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and policies in the

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Comprehensive plan encourage

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balancing housing supply with

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protecting existing

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neighborhood character and

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protecting the natural

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environment. Staff finds this

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request reasonable and in

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public interest, and are there

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any questions? The applicant is

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here as well. I believe they

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have a presentation and happy

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to answer any questions that I

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can.

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Thank you. Before we let you

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go. Commissioner Jones.

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Commissioner Woodruff.

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Commissioner Pollack.

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Yes.

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Sir.

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Uh, you don

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t have to flip

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back, but will you show the

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three pictures of the property?

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I

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m sorry. Where you showed the

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three pictures of the property.

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You don

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t need to scroll back.

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Um, are all three of those

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homes that you showed coming?

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Going to be coming down, or is

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that something the applicant

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would better address?

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Uh, they MAY be better to

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address it, but I assume they

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will be coming. They

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ll be

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coming down. They

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re not shown

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on the site. Plan to be

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retained.

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Okay.

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That

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s all. Yes, sir.

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Okay, thanks.

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Commissioner Adams.

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Were there any.

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Significant design changes for

295
00:09:50,561 --> 00:09:52,230
the layout or density following

296
00:09:52,230 --> 00:09:54,498
either the community meeting or

297
00:09:54,498 --> 00:09:55,567
the technical review with

298
00:09:55,567 --> 00:09:57,567
staff?

299
00:09:57,635 --> 00:09:59,204
Um, so staff in the applicant

300
00:09:59,204 --> 00:10:01,373
did discuss alternative designs

301
00:10:01,373 --> 00:10:02,574
due to some constraints with

302
00:10:02,574 --> 00:10:05,574
natural features such as the

303
00:10:05,912 --> 00:10:08,114
creek and trees. Um, this

304
00:10:08,114 --> 00:10:08,915
became the most feasible. Um,

305
00:10:08,915 --> 00:10:10,984
the applicant MAY be able to

306
00:10:10,984 --> 00:10:12,285
speak more to um, specifically

307
00:10:12,285 --> 00:10:14,685
what those constraints were.

308
00:10:17,157 --> 00:10:18,592
Um, but there were discussions.

309
00:10:18,592 --> 00:10:20,592
Commissioner Collier.

310
00:10:21,229 --> 00:10:22,364
Commissioner Cooper, thank you

311
00:10:22,364 --> 00:10:22,631
very much. Thank you. I

312
00:10:22,631 --> 00:10:24,631
d like

313
00:10:26,202 --> 00:10:26,334
to invite the applicant.

314
00:10:26,334 --> 00:10:28,334
I

315
00:10:30,872 --> 00:10:31,390
ll get that for you. Yes,

316
00:10:31,390 --> 00:10:31,607
ma

317
00:10:31,607 --> 00:10:32,741
am.

318
00:10:32,741 --> 00:10:33,575
Thank you very much. My name is

319
00:10:33,575 --> 00:10:34,476
Cindy Wolfe, and I

320
00:10:34,476 --> 00:10:35,611
m here on

321
00:10:35,611 --> 00:10:36,445
behalf of the owners of the

322
00:10:36,445 --> 00:10:37,460
property. And I

323
00:10:37,460 --> 00:10:38,147
m here with

324
00:10:38,147 --> 00:10:39,182
Nathan Sangamon, who

325
00:10:39,182 --> 00:10:41,182
s, um, one

326
00:10:41,451 --> 00:10:44,451
of the representatives from the

327
00:10:44,922 --> 00:10:47,570
development team. As Tucker

328
00:10:47,570 --> 00:10:49,293
Tucker pointed out. Canal

329
00:10:49,293 --> 00:10:50,861
Street is a dead end roadway.

330
00:10:50,861 --> 00:10:51,662
The right of way stub stubs to

331
00:10:51,662 --> 00:10:51,862
the tidal creek. There

332
00:10:51,862 --> 00:10:53,397
s

333
00:10:53,397 --> 00:10:55,500
certainly no feasibility for

334
00:10:55,500 --> 00:10:56,680
future extension. Um, we

335
00:10:56,680 --> 00:10:58,680
ve got

336
00:10:58,700 --> 00:10:59,805
the four story Grandview

337
00:10:59,805 --> 00:11:00,239
apartments up on Wrightsville

338
00:11:00,239 --> 00:11:01,173
Avenue. It

339
00:11:01,173 --> 00:11:03,173
s three story,

340
00:11:03,776 --> 00:11:05,144
basically over the parking deck

341
00:11:05,144 --> 00:11:05,811
at the rear building. We

342
00:11:05,811 --> 00:11:07,647
ve got

343
00:11:07,647 --> 00:11:09,480
an existing contractor yard,

344
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:10,383
which is certainly non

345
00:11:10,383 --> 00:11:11,684
conforming to any of the

346
00:11:11,684 --> 00:11:13,684
current regulations for

347
00:11:14,155 --> 00:11:15,890
screening or sidewalks. And

348
00:11:15,890 --> 00:11:17,959
then although the back access

349
00:11:17,959 --> 00:11:20,940
of Atlantic Marine Boat Service

350
00:11:20,940 --> 00:11:22,330
is back there, they keep a

351
00:11:22,330 --> 00:11:23,731
nice, you know, facility. And

352
00:11:23,731 --> 00:11:24,966
certainly the mixed use

353
00:11:24,966 --> 00:11:26,801
building that they have the

354
00:11:26,801 --> 00:11:28,803
first of two planned back

355
00:11:28,803 --> 00:11:31,441
there. Um, has given the street

356
00:11:31,441 --> 00:11:31,707
some character, uh that

357
00:11:31,707 --> 00:11:33,707
s

358
00:11:34,444 --> 00:11:36,579
right. But that being said, I

359
00:11:36,579 --> 00:11:39,649
think the zoning map is, is

360
00:11:39,649 --> 00:11:39,816
evident of what is here. Now

361
00:11:39,816 --> 00:11:40,851
you

362
00:11:40,851 --> 00:11:42,619
ve got the community

363
00:11:42,619 --> 00:11:45,190
business district across both

364
00:11:45,155 --> 00:11:46,857
ways. Although the gray areas,

365
00:11:46,857 --> 00:11:48,760
Wrightsville Beach, it is zoned

366
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:49,794
c-5, which is the heavy duty

367
00:11:49,794 --> 00:11:51,763
commercial as far as

368
00:11:51,763 --> 00:11:51,930
Wrightsville Beach zoning is.

369
00:11:51,930 --> 00:11:53,698
We

370
00:11:53,698 --> 00:11:55,000
ve got the md ten, which is

371
00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,000
multifamily of Wrightsville

372
00:11:57,690 --> 00:11:58,337
West, and then Grandview is a

373
00:11:58,337 --> 00:12:01,974
mixed use in the oh and I

374
00:12:01,974 --> 00:12:03,709
district, as shown. Certainly

375
00:12:03,709 --> 00:12:05,277
the our 20 legacy zoning

376
00:12:05,277 --> 00:12:06,913
district is still appropriate

377
00:12:06,913 --> 00:12:08,849
for all of Summer Haven. There

378
00:12:08,849 --> 00:12:09,115
is no question about that. But

379
00:12:09,115 --> 00:12:10,116
the Mott

380
00:12:10,116 --> 00:12:10,317
s Creek pond and

381
00:12:10,317 --> 00:12:11,852
Mott

382
00:12:11,852 --> 00:12:14,852
s Creek that extends back

383
00:12:15,923 --> 00:12:17,858
here isolates the end of Canal

384
00:12:17,858 --> 00:12:19,360
Street from that community and

385
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:20,494
more orients it towards the

386
00:12:20,494 --> 00:12:21,996
community that we have

387
00:12:21,996 --> 00:12:24,996
surrounding it, which is much

388
00:12:25,801 --> 00:12:27,202
more commercial. The existing

389
00:12:27,202 --> 00:12:28,637
conditions. I just wanted to

390
00:12:28,637 --> 00:12:29,838
show there are actually just

391
00:12:29,838 --> 00:12:31,838
two homes, Commissioner

392
00:12:32,708 --> 00:12:34,343
Pollock, that um, or whoever

393
00:12:34,343 --> 00:12:36,212
asked that, uh, the other

394
00:12:36,212 --> 00:12:36,379
building there is a garage, so

395
00:12:36,379 --> 00:12:37,246
it

396
00:12:37,246 --> 00:12:39,716
s a pretty good sized

397
00:12:39,716 --> 00:12:42,653
garage. All of those existing

398
00:12:42,653 --> 00:12:45,530
structures would be removed.

399
00:12:46,624 --> 00:12:48,526
Um, we went to a lot of, uh,

400
00:12:48,526 --> 00:12:50,595
exercise in the very beginning,

401
00:12:50,595 --> 00:12:52,300
not only getting the survey

402
00:12:52,300 --> 00:12:54,499
done, you know, all the things

403
00:12:54,499 --> 00:12:56,301
located, the existing, uh,

404
00:12:56,301 --> 00:12:56,868
utilities, all of that thing.

405
00:12:56,868 --> 00:12:57,369
But I think it

406
00:12:57,369 --> 00:12:58,704
s also

407
00:12:58,704 --> 00:13:00,907
important. And I wanted this

408
00:13:00,907 --> 00:13:03,877
exhibit to to show that even

409
00:13:03,877 --> 00:13:06,646
though the tax records and the

410
00:13:06,646 --> 00:13:08,214
technical land boundary show

411
00:13:08,214 --> 00:13:10,784
this being a combined two

412
00:13:10,784 --> 00:13:12,452
acres, it really is only 1.6

413
00:13:12,452 --> 00:13:14,755
acres. The blue line is

414
00:13:14,755 --> 00:13:16,792
basically the high water level.

415
00:13:16,792 --> 00:13:18,226
And so none of the lands below

416
00:13:18,226 --> 00:13:19,600
that, or to the right of the

417
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:19,828
screens in Mott

418
00:13:19,828 --> 00:13:21,828
s Creek and

419
00:13:22,564 --> 00:13:25,133
along the waterline of that, is

420
00:13:25,133 --> 00:13:27,602
included in the feasible use of

421
00:13:27,602 --> 00:13:29,938
this area. So the blue line is

422
00:13:29,938 --> 00:13:31,406
where then the 75 foot cod, the

423
00:13:31,406 --> 00:13:31,740
conservation overlay district.

424
00:13:31,740 --> 00:13:32,207
And I don

425
00:13:32,207 --> 00:13:32,341
t know that that

426
00:13:32,341 --> 00:13:33,777
s

427
00:13:33,777 --> 00:13:34,911
what we call it anymore in the

428
00:13:34,911 --> 00:13:35,912
ldc, but that

429
00:13:35,912 --> 00:13:37,140
s where the

430
00:13:37,140 --> 00:13:38,548
setback for the more

431
00:13:38,548 --> 00:13:40,548
environmentally sensitive

432
00:13:41,318 --> 00:13:43,718
development happens. That being

433
00:13:43,821 --> 00:13:45,623
said, um, redevelopment of

434
00:13:45,623 --> 00:13:49,223
these two lots into two new

435
00:13:49,326 --> 00:13:51,396
homes would pretty much be by

436
00:13:51,396 --> 00:13:53,899
right, obviously. But then you

437
00:13:53,899 --> 00:13:55,401
negate the preservation of the

438
00:13:55,401 --> 00:13:57,236
requirements of the trees

439
00:13:57,236 --> 00:14:00,236
because neither of these lots

440
00:14:00,506 --> 00:14:02,275
are over an acre. Um, so more

441
00:14:02,275 --> 00:14:03,376
trees could come out as single

442
00:14:03,376 --> 00:14:03,743
family lots. There wouldn

443
00:14:03,743 --> 00:14:05,743
t be

444
00:14:06,145 --> 00:14:08,145
any stormwater requirements

445
00:14:08,649 --> 00:14:11,180
specifically. And so that was

446
00:14:11,180 --> 00:14:12,386
one of the press. The points

447
00:14:12,386 --> 00:14:13,721
that we tried to make when we

448
00:14:13,721 --> 00:14:15,723
had the community information

449
00:14:15,723 --> 00:14:16,491
meeting is, yes, we

450
00:14:16,491 --> 00:14:17,959
re asking

451
00:14:17,959 --> 00:14:18,126
for some more density, but

452
00:14:18,126 --> 00:14:19,527
you

453
00:14:19,527 --> 00:14:22,527
ve got the surety through

454
00:14:22,731 --> 00:14:24,499
the conditional use rezoning

455
00:14:24,499 --> 00:14:26,499
process of stormwater

456
00:14:26,836 --> 00:14:28,204
management of preservation of

457
00:14:28,204 --> 00:14:29,539
trees, all of those types of

458
00:14:29,539 --> 00:14:29,705
things. The other that we

459
00:14:29,705 --> 00:14:30,873
ve

460
00:14:30,873 --> 00:14:34,410
sort of brought up that people

461
00:14:34,410 --> 00:14:35,945
talked about was, uh, noise,

462
00:14:35,945 --> 00:14:37,948
uh, short term rentals, those

463
00:14:37,948 --> 00:14:39,416
types of things where you might

464
00:14:39,416 --> 00:14:40,751
have two homes and two

465
00:14:40,751 --> 00:14:42,619
accessory dwellings that would

466
00:14:42,619 --> 00:14:44,556
be redeveloped here. Yes, you

467
00:14:44,556 --> 00:14:46,558
have eight units, but you also

468
00:14:46,558 --> 00:14:49,427
have seven other members of an

469
00:14:49,427 --> 00:14:50,962
hoa that can make sure that

470
00:14:50,962 --> 00:14:52,964
types of things like short term

471
00:14:52,964 --> 00:14:56,564
rentals or noise or parties are

472
00:14:56,568 --> 00:14:58,971
much more reviewed and, um, you

473
00:14:58,971 --> 00:15:00,607
know, paid attention to very

474
00:15:00,607 --> 00:15:02,842
similar to, uh, Tucker

475
00:15:02,842 --> 00:15:04,611
s shots.

476
00:15:04,611 --> 00:15:06,680
This is looking towards the end

477
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:08,182
of Canal Street and the

478
00:15:08,182 --> 00:15:10,217
sidewalk where it ends from the

479
00:15:10,217 --> 00:15:12,119
Grandview project. All those

480
00:15:12,119 --> 00:15:14,388
trees along that right away

481
00:15:14,388 --> 00:15:16,757
will be are part of our plan to

482
00:15:16,757 --> 00:15:18,760
be saved. Um, the sidewalk will

483
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,295
extend because luckily, the

484
00:15:20,295 --> 00:15:21,730
carbon gutter is already here,

485
00:15:21,730 --> 00:15:24,133
but the sidewalk will extend

486
00:15:24,133 --> 00:15:26,402
and will be creative in field.

487
00:15:26,402 --> 00:15:28,137
Locating that along the front

488
00:15:28,137 --> 00:15:30,239
yard. Same thing from the

489
00:15:30,239 --> 00:15:31,941
opposite direction. Um, you can

490
00:15:31,941 --> 00:15:33,276
see those trees along the back

491
00:15:33,276 --> 00:15:35,412
of the curb that are all

492
00:15:35,412 --> 00:15:38,820
preserved in the plan. So

493
00:15:38,820 --> 00:15:38,249
again, this is the plan. Um, I

494
00:15:38,249 --> 00:15:39,717
don

495
00:15:39,717 --> 00:15:42,117
t have the existing

496
00:15:43,187 --> 00:15:45,187
building footprints. Um,

497
00:15:45,356 --> 00:15:47,756
underneath here, but basically

498
00:15:47,792 --> 00:15:49,594
the lower building on 120 is

499
00:15:49,594 --> 00:15:51,994
slightly behind the existing

500
00:15:52,631 --> 00:15:54,900
house. The building at 124 is

501
00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:56,736
behind the existing house. Uh,

502
00:15:56,736 --> 00:15:58,904
this is just an exhibit, but I

503
00:15:58,904 --> 00:16:01,700
think then it shows all of the

504
00:16:01,700 --> 00:16:04,607
vegetation that is then in that

505
00:16:04,611 --> 00:16:06,279
75 foot cod buffer and setback.

506
00:16:06,279 --> 00:16:06,680
That would be preserved. That

507
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,215
s

508
00:16:08,215 --> 00:16:10,818
the house on the top end, the

509
00:16:10,818 --> 00:16:13,421
124. And from the bridge over

510
00:16:13,421 --> 00:16:13,588
Summer road, uh, the building

511
00:16:13,588 --> 00:16:15,588
we

512
00:16:15,757 --> 00:16:18,930
re proposing is behind where

513
00:16:18,930 --> 00:16:20,462
that building already is. So I

514
00:16:20,462 --> 00:16:21,696
think that the views from

515
00:16:21,696 --> 00:16:22,764
outside of it, which is

516
00:16:22,764 --> 00:16:24,833
certainly a concern that

517
00:16:24,833 --> 00:16:26,201
everyone had, are going to be

518
00:16:26,201 --> 00:16:28,204
softened and mitigated by the

519
00:16:28,204 --> 00:16:28,438
existing vegetation. That

520
00:16:28,438 --> 00:16:29,539
wouldn

521
00:16:29,539 --> 00:16:30,941
t necessarily be the

522
00:16:30,941 --> 00:16:33,941
case if this were redeveloped

523
00:16:34,845 --> 00:16:35,278
by. Right. Again, a conceptual

524
00:16:35,278 --> 00:16:36,480
you know, it

525
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:37,981
s difficult

526
00:16:37,981 --> 00:16:39,917
getting an architect involved

527
00:16:39,917 --> 00:16:40,183
at this point to the cost when

528
00:16:40,183 --> 00:16:40,817
you don

529
00:16:40,817 --> 00:16:40,984
t even know you

530
00:16:40,984 --> 00:16:42,984
re

531
00:16:44,922 --> 00:16:46,892
entitled. But the obvious, um,

532
00:16:46,892 --> 00:16:48,727
concept that they have is a

533
00:16:48,727 --> 00:16:50,162
much more contemporary style of

534
00:16:50,162 --> 00:16:51,397
building. These are three

535
00:16:51,397 --> 00:16:53,980
stories where I mentioned that

536
00:16:53,980 --> 00:16:54,733
Grandview is four stories on

537
00:16:54,733 --> 00:16:56,468
the front, and then two stories

538
00:16:56,468 --> 00:16:56,635
over parking deck on the. So

539
00:16:56,635 --> 00:16:58,237
it

540
00:16:58,237 --> 00:17:01,140
s not much different than

541
00:17:01,140 --> 00:17:02,943
that. Uh, across the road, the

542
00:17:02,943 --> 00:17:04,945
Atlantic Marine mixed use

543
00:17:04,945 --> 00:17:05,312
building is also once it

544
00:17:05,312 --> 00:17:05,679
s up

545
00:17:05,679 --> 00:17:07,679
there, it

546
00:17:07,982 --> 00:17:10,418
s a high two stories.

547
00:17:10,418 --> 00:17:12,820
So with that, and I apologize,

548
00:17:12,820 --> 00:17:15,556
this should say proposed r7,

549
00:17:15,556 --> 00:17:15,757
not r5. We do appreciate

550
00:17:15,757 --> 00:17:17,325
staff

551
00:17:17,325 --> 00:17:19,325
s recommendation and

552
00:17:19,627 --> 00:17:21,197
their research of it. Um, one

553
00:17:21,197 --> 00:17:24,797
of the things that I believe

554
00:17:25,134 --> 00:17:28,134
the opponent to this rezoning

555
00:17:28,338 --> 00:17:29,272
had commented in their criteria

556
00:17:29,272 --> 00:17:31,272
was about stormwater

557
00:17:31,441 --> 00:17:33,710
management. Uh, we already have

558
00:17:33,710 --> 00:17:35,545
done the soils testing. We had

559
00:17:35,545 --> 00:17:36,947
tests done in two places all

560
00:17:36,947 --> 00:17:38,716
along that drive that fronts

561
00:17:38,716 --> 00:17:40,510
the parking pads in front of

562
00:17:40,510 --> 00:17:41,352
the building. So between the

563
00:17:41,352 --> 00:17:41,686
buildings and canal, that

564
00:17:41,686 --> 00:17:42,887
s

565
00:17:42,887 --> 00:17:44,890
where all the drainage would be

566
00:17:44,890 --> 00:17:44,990
directed. Uh, we

567
00:17:44,990 --> 00:17:46,990
re in the

568
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:48,360
resource preservation, so

569
00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:50,360
there

570
00:17:50,429 --> 00:17:52,231
ll be low density impact,

571
00:17:52,231 --> 00:17:54,700
provisions as part of that

572
00:17:54,700 --> 00:17:56,236
design. But the groundwater

573
00:17:56,236 --> 00:17:57,971
depth and the infiltration

574
00:17:57,971 --> 00:17:59,573
rates are excellent for

575
00:17:59,573 --> 00:18:01,308
infiltration for our

576
00:18:01,308 --> 00:18:03,343
stormwater. So all of that has

577
00:18:03,343 --> 00:18:05,345
been sort of painstakingly

578
00:18:05,345 --> 00:18:07,314
reviewed ahead of time. Um,

579
00:18:07,314 --> 00:18:09,314
infill development where

580
00:18:09,817 --> 00:18:12,190
existing things exist is

581
00:18:12,190 --> 00:18:14,356
certainly one of our policies

582
00:18:14,356 --> 00:18:15,891
and strategies and location

583
00:18:15,891 --> 00:18:17,526
efficient housing where we have

584
00:18:17,526 --> 00:18:19,461
all the services, we have the

585
00:18:19,461 --> 00:18:20,963
multi-use path and a lot of

586
00:18:20,963 --> 00:18:22,970
recreation opportunities in

587
00:18:22,970 --> 00:18:22,698
Wrightsville Beach. And along

588
00:18:22,698 --> 00:18:23,566
here. I

589
00:18:23,566 --> 00:18:24,967
d be happy to answer

590
00:18:24,967 --> 00:18:26,569
your questions.

591
00:18:26,569 --> 00:18:28,371
Thank you very much,

592
00:18:28,371 --> 00:18:29,272
Commissioner coffer, start with

593
00:18:29,272 --> 00:18:31,272
you.

594
00:18:31,475 --> 00:18:33,430
Thank you, MISTER Chair. Um,

595
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:36,643
MISS Wolfe, the only question I

596
00:18:36,714 --> 00:18:38,449
had would be the, um, access on

597
00:18:38,449 --> 00:18:41,686
Canal and then going into your

598
00:18:41,686 --> 00:18:43,521
site. Is that a hammerhead for

599
00:18:43,521 --> 00:18:45,456
fire truck for internal to your

600
00:18:45,456 --> 00:18:47,292
site? Or is it at the end of

601
00:18:47,292 --> 00:18:49,895
canal, or how does that.

602
00:18:49,895 --> 00:18:51,531
Technically, none of neither

603
00:18:51,531 --> 00:18:55,680
unit one on the bottom or four

604
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,370
at the top is beyond the 150ft

605
00:18:57,370 --> 00:18:59,380
that fire trucks necessitate

606
00:18:59,380 --> 00:19:00,740
for turnaround, that they

607
00:19:00,740 --> 00:19:02,609
technically all front on Canal

608
00:19:02,609 --> 00:19:04,411
Street. That being said, yes,

609
00:19:04,411 --> 00:19:05,746
that t head would accommodate a

610
00:19:05,746 --> 00:19:08,516
fire truck if they needed to

611
00:19:08,516 --> 00:19:10,451
turn around on site. But the

612
00:19:10,451 --> 00:19:12,721
end of Canal Street has the

613
00:19:12,721 --> 00:19:13,955
turnaround that, uh, is

614
00:19:13,955 --> 00:19:14,956
measured. Then from Eastward

615
00:19:14,956 --> 00:19:16,956
Road.

616
00:19:17,893 --> 00:19:19,893
Okay.

617
00:19:20,929 --> 00:19:22,231
And are you in the applicant? I

618
00:19:22,231 --> 00:19:24,767
mean, I think at the end in our

619
00:19:24,767 --> 00:19:26,636
conditions, it mentioned, um,

620
00:19:26,636 --> 00:19:28,138
acceptance of the site plan, of

621
00:19:28,138 --> 00:19:30,474
course, but then the elevations

622
00:19:30,474 --> 00:19:32,474
is that accurate?

623
00:19:32,676 --> 00:19:33,760
Yes. There is there conceptual,

624
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:34,211
but they

625
00:19:34,211 --> 00:19:36,211
re generally the

626
00:19:37,314 --> 00:19:38,716
style, the roof type, the the

627
00:19:38,716 --> 00:19:40,585
character. As far as being

628
00:19:40,585 --> 00:19:43,488
three storeys with garages on

629
00:19:43,488 --> 00:19:46,324
the bottom. Um, the access

630
00:19:46,324 --> 00:19:49,127
points facing the doors into

631
00:19:49,127 --> 00:19:50,529
from Canal Street. So, yes, an

632
00:19:50,529 --> 00:19:52,364
architect will be working with

633
00:19:52,364 --> 00:19:53,499
that concept.

634
00:19:53,499 --> 00:19:54,500
Okay. And I

635
00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:55,568
m assuming I think

636
00:19:55,568 --> 00:19:57,270
I probably know the answer, but

637
00:19:57,270 --> 00:19:58,639
just for the public good at all

638
00:19:58,639 --> 00:20:00,241
lighting ordinances and things

639
00:20:00,241 --> 00:20:02,142
that would apply by right, our

640
00:20:02,142 --> 00:20:02,877
20 would apply to your site as

641
00:20:02,877 --> 00:20:04,111
well.

642
00:20:04,111 --> 00:20:05,713
Absolutely. And noise

643
00:20:05,713 --> 00:20:07,214
ordinances. But like I said,

644
00:20:07,214 --> 00:20:08,950
when you have seven neighbors,

645
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:11,419
you tend to have a little bit

646
00:20:11,419 --> 00:20:13,187
more stringent policies and

647
00:20:13,187 --> 00:20:13,955
guidelines for how you use your

648
00:20:13,955 --> 00:20:14,355
property.

649
00:20:14,355 --> 00:20:15,891
Thank you.

650
00:20:15,891 --> 00:20:17,891
Thank you.

651
00:20:19,495 --> 00:20:21,495
Commissioner Collier. MISS

652
00:20:22,980 --> 00:20:23,232
Wolfe, um, I saw that. Or heard

653
00:20:23,232 --> 00:20:24,968
you had a community meeting. Is

654
00:20:24,968 --> 00:20:26,636
that correct? Yes. About how

655
00:20:26,636 --> 00:20:29,339
many folks were at that?

656
00:20:29,339 --> 00:20:31,241
Oh, probably 15 to 20. The

657
00:20:31,241 --> 00:20:31,508
usual? Not usual. The folks

658
00:20:31,508 --> 00:20:32,977
that I

659
00:20:32,977 --> 00:20:34,545
ve been familiar with

660
00:20:34,545 --> 00:20:36,470
vary over different projects

661
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:36,247
from the summer rest area.

662
00:20:36,247 --> 00:20:37,215
They

663
00:20:37,215 --> 00:20:37,415
re all from summer rest.

664
00:20:37,415 --> 00:20:38,850
That

665
00:20:38,850 --> 00:20:41,250
s pretty much yes.

666
00:20:41,553 --> 00:20:42,487
Um, and so the drainage I heard

667
00:20:42,487 --> 00:20:44,550
you say you have good

668
00:20:44,550 --> 00:20:46,455
infiltration and seasonal high,

669
00:20:46,625 --> 00:20:46,791
which is great. Um, well, some

670
00:20:46,791 --> 00:20:47,626
it

671
00:20:47,626 --> 00:20:49,361
s underground. Are you going

672
00:20:49,361 --> 00:20:51,264
to put some level of, uh,

673
00:20:51,264 --> 00:20:51,731
pervious concrete or pervious

674
00:20:51,731 --> 00:20:51,931
pavers?

675
00:20:51,931 --> 00:20:53,166
That

676
00:20:53,166 --> 00:20:53,366
s the idea. I believe

677
00:20:53,366 --> 00:20:54,434
they

678
00:20:54,434 --> 00:20:55,435
ll work with City

679
00:20:55,435 --> 00:20:55,568
Engineering because there

680
00:20:55,568 --> 00:20:57,137
s

681
00:20:57,137 --> 00:20:58,105
some. What you can

682
00:20:58,105 --> 00:20:59,720
t use porous

683
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:00,340
pavement. If you have

684
00:21:00,340 --> 00:21:00,874
infiltration. But we

685
00:21:00,874 --> 00:21:02,442
ll work

686
00:21:02,442 --> 00:21:04,411
that out. Right, right. Yes.

687
00:21:04,411 --> 00:21:06,146
Okay. Um, so overall for the

688
00:21:06,146 --> 00:21:06,313
size of the site, I believe

689
00:21:06,313 --> 00:21:08,313
we

690
00:21:08,483 --> 00:21:10,118
re even. I mean, this is in

691
00:21:10,118 --> 00:21:12,420
a more sensitive area, so low

692
00:21:12,420 --> 00:21:12,588
density would be just 12%. But

693
00:21:12,588 --> 00:21:12,955
we

694
00:21:12,955 --> 00:21:14,790
re we

695
00:21:14,790 --> 00:21:16,658
re less than 24%

696
00:21:16,658 --> 00:21:17,393
overall as far as our coverage.

697
00:21:17,393 --> 00:21:19,393
Right.

698
00:21:22,297 --> 00:21:23,532
Um, I see that 75 foot cod

699
00:21:23,532 --> 00:21:23,899
marked and you

700
00:21:23,899 --> 00:21:24,667
ve got the

701
00:21:24,667 --> 00:21:25,168
building area. So you

702
00:21:25,168 --> 00:21:26,536
re, I

703
00:21:26,536 --> 00:21:29,406
presume, under all of the

704
00:21:29,406 --> 00:21:31,442
square footages for the 75ft.

705
00:21:31,442 --> 00:21:34,442
There are some provisions for

706
00:21:34,445 --> 00:21:36,314
extending into that 75 foot

707
00:21:36,314 --> 00:21:37,782
setback. And what you see,

708
00:21:37,782 --> 00:21:39,417
crosshatch has all been

709
00:21:39,417 --> 00:21:41,853
calculated. So yes, we are

710
00:21:41,853 --> 00:21:42,688
under that threshold.

711
00:21:42,688 --> 00:21:43,822
And I

712
00:21:43,822 --> 00:21:44,890
m certainly glad to see

713
00:21:44,890 --> 00:21:45,124
that you

714
00:21:45,124 --> 00:21:46,592
ve saved as many trees

715
00:21:46,592 --> 00:21:47,360
as you did. It seems that the

716
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:47,727
the bulk of what you

717
00:21:47,727 --> 00:21:48,270
re, you

718
00:21:48,270 --> 00:21:49,562
re

719
00:21:49,562 --> 00:21:51,631
taking down are really right in

720
00:21:51,631 --> 00:21:53,699
the, in the apex of the

721
00:21:53,699 --> 00:21:54,133
driveway. Um, I don

722
00:21:54,133 --> 00:21:55,235
t know what

723
00:21:55,235 --> 00:21:56,636
size those are, but.

724
00:21:56,636 --> 00:21:58,636
Uh.

725
00:21:59,472 --> 00:22:00,875
It was a creative plan trying

726
00:22:00,875 --> 00:22:01,175
to get these in here. And yes,

727
00:22:01,175 --> 00:22:02,877
the x

728
00:22:02,877 --> 00:22:03,100
s are just regulated. The

729
00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:04,780
m

730
00:22:04,780 --> 00:22:05,179
s are the ones that are

731
00:22:05,179 --> 00:22:05,613
mitigated. So it

732
00:22:05,613 --> 00:22:05,947
s it

733
00:22:05,947 --> 00:22:07,749
s a

734
00:22:07,749 --> 00:22:07,949
mixture. But we certainly

735
00:22:07,949 --> 00:22:09,617
didn

736
00:22:09,617 --> 00:22:10,485
t mess with any of the

737
00:22:10,485 --> 00:22:12,870
specimens.

738
00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:13,922
Okay, great. All right. Thank

739
00:22:13,922 --> 00:22:15,757
you very much, Commissioner.

740
00:22:15,757 --> 00:22:17,757
Adams.

741
00:22:18,127 --> 00:22:18,995
I think Richard answered, or

742
00:22:18,995 --> 00:22:19,996
you addressed one of my

743
00:22:19,996 --> 00:22:22,650
questions, which was going to

744
00:22:22,650 --> 00:22:22,732
be tree safe considerations.

745
00:22:22,732 --> 00:22:24,732
Um, you

746
00:22:24,968 --> 00:22:27,700
re going to recombine

747
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:28,839
or recombine and then newly

748
00:22:28,839 --> 00:22:29,206
subdivide this so that it

749
00:22:29,206 --> 00:22:31,174
s a

750
00:22:31,174 --> 00:22:31,375
lot a parcel for each building.

751
00:22:31,375 --> 00:22:33,343
That

752
00:22:33,343 --> 00:22:35,413
s correct. That works well

753
00:22:35,413 --> 00:22:35,614
within the r-7 and the new ldc.

754
00:22:35,614 --> 00:22:37,348
That

755
00:22:37,348 --> 00:22:39,748
s then allowed attached

756
00:22:41,860 --> 00:22:42,721
housing. Um, the r7 has a

757
00:22:42,721 --> 00:22:43,789
little bit extra side setbacks.

758
00:22:43,789 --> 00:22:44,389
I mean, initially that

759
00:22:44,389 --> 00:22:46,389
s why I

760
00:22:47,459 --> 00:22:48,594
had had the r5 on one of those

761
00:22:48,594 --> 00:22:49,610
slides. It doesn

762
00:22:49,610 --> 00:22:49,461
t really

763
00:22:49,461 --> 00:22:51,461
matter. It

764
00:22:51,497 --> 00:22:53,497
s semantics. The

765
00:22:53,901 --> 00:22:56,901
four units per lot are

766
00:22:57,404 --> 00:22:59,640
available up to 3500ft per

767
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,442
unit. And so the quadruplex is

768
00:23:01,442 --> 00:23:03,644
fit. The nice thing was the

769
00:23:03,644 --> 00:23:05,713
semantics is we could provide

770
00:23:05,713 --> 00:23:07,815
the side setbacks and we only

771
00:23:07,815 --> 00:23:10,486
needed four units to make the

772
00:23:10,486 --> 00:23:12,721
project work. And so r7 was our

773
00:23:12,721 --> 00:23:13,289
an easy option. And it doesn

774
00:23:13,289 --> 00:23:15,910
t

775
00:23:15,910 --> 00:23:15,991
just seem as bad as r5,

776
00:23:15,991 --> 00:23:17,259
although it still would have

777
00:23:17,259 --> 00:23:17,960
been just the eight units.

778
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,960
Okay, thank.

779
00:23:22,999 --> 00:23:23,866
You. Commissioner Pawlak.

780
00:23:23,866 --> 00:23:24,267
Unfortunately, I didn

781
00:23:24,267 --> 00:23:26,267
t get a

782
00:23:26,736 --> 00:23:28,105
chance to, um, look at what you

783
00:23:28,105 --> 00:23:30,700
know, the document that was

784
00:23:30,700 --> 00:23:30,575
sent in, shared with us at

785
00:23:30,575 --> 00:23:31,750
three. And that that

786
00:23:31,750 --> 00:23:31,275
s on me.

787
00:23:31,275 --> 00:23:31,709
That

788
00:23:31,709 --> 00:23:33,478
s not.

789
00:23:33,478 --> 00:23:34,245
I just I read it a moment ago,

790
00:23:34,245 --> 00:23:35,780
so I was trying.

791
00:23:35,780 --> 00:23:37,816
To. Yeah. Could you.

792
00:23:37,816 --> 00:23:40,151
Kind of, you know, uh, you

793
00:23:40,151 --> 00:23:41,953
know, uh, crib notes. What what

794
00:23:41,953 --> 00:23:43,321
were the concerns that the

795
00:23:43,321 --> 00:23:44,322
person sent in and how would

796
00:23:44,322 --> 00:23:45,892
you how would you address them?

797
00:23:45,892 --> 00:23:47,260
I just, you know, just for the

798
00:23:47,260 --> 00:23:47,460
record, I just like I said, I

799
00:23:47,460 --> 00:23:48,594
didn

800
00:23:48,594 --> 00:23:49,162
t get a chance to look at

801
00:23:49,162 --> 00:23:51,162
it.

802
00:23:51,297 --> 00:23:53,266
One of them was traffic. That

803
00:23:53,266 --> 00:23:56,360
it is dead end. That being

804
00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:57,704
said, yes, eight townhome units

805
00:23:57,704 --> 00:23:59,807
have slightly more trip

806
00:23:59,807 --> 00:24:02,207
generation than the possibility

807
00:24:02,376 --> 00:24:04,212
of two singles, with two ADUs,

808
00:24:04,212 --> 00:24:07,149
but then they have a higher

809
00:24:07,149 --> 00:24:10,552
trip generation, so I think at

810
00:24:10,552 --> 00:24:12,821
this point the amount of

811
00:24:12,821 --> 00:24:14,189
increase is negligible to the

812
00:24:14,189 --> 00:24:16,792
traffic that comes and goes

813
00:24:16,792 --> 00:24:18,227
from the back of, uh, the

814
00:24:18,227 --> 00:24:19,862
businesses on the left hand

815
00:24:19,862 --> 00:24:22,466
side and Grandview coming out

816
00:24:22,466 --> 00:24:23,901
their driveway. Stormwater was

817
00:24:23,901 --> 00:24:25,569
one of them in the sensitivity.

818
00:24:25,569 --> 00:24:26,971
And as I pointed out, not we

819
00:24:26,971 --> 00:24:29,390
are paying attention to the

820
00:24:29,390 --> 00:24:30,740
sensitivity already, but single

821
00:24:30,740 --> 00:24:30,241
family development wouldn

822
00:24:30,241 --> 00:24:32,241
t

823
00:24:32,843 --> 00:24:34,912
have to at all. Got it. Um,

824
00:24:34,912 --> 00:24:35,213
tree save again. I think we

825
00:24:35,213 --> 00:24:35,379
ve

826
00:24:35,379 --> 00:24:37,181
we

827
00:24:37,181 --> 00:24:37,348
ve addressed that. You know,

828
00:24:37,348 --> 00:24:38,317
you

829
00:24:38,317 --> 00:24:40,453
ve got to break some eggs

830
00:24:40,453 --> 00:24:40,619
to make an omelet, but I think

831
00:24:40,619 --> 00:24:41,887
we

832
00:24:41,887 --> 00:24:44,887
ve been very sensitive to

833
00:24:45,191 --> 00:24:45,358
that. And again, um, because

834
00:24:45,358 --> 00:24:47,193
it

835
00:24:47,193 --> 00:24:49,950
s a conditional use, then

836
00:24:49,950 --> 00:24:51,431
the restrictions of the

837
00:24:51,431 --> 00:24:52,899
conditions maintain that we

838
00:24:52,899 --> 00:24:54,601
have to preserve all the trees

839
00:24:54,601 --> 00:24:57,710
that are in the 75 and away

840
00:24:57,710 --> 00:24:57,838
from the creekside. That

841
00:24:57,838 --> 00:24:59,140
s

842
00:24:59,140 --> 00:24:59,674
those were the bulk of it.

843
00:24:59,674 --> 00:25:01,509
Okay.

844
00:25:01,509 --> 00:25:02,343
The other question I have is,

845
00:25:02,343 --> 00:25:03,845
and I want to make sure I

846
00:25:03,845 --> 00:25:04,946
understood because I think my

847
00:25:04,946 --> 00:25:06,946
fellow commissioners couple

848
00:25:06,981 --> 00:25:08,850
have brought up there is going

849
00:25:08,850 --> 00:25:09,818
to be an hoa here.

850
00:25:09,818 --> 00:25:10,385
Absolutely.

851
00:25:10,385 --> 00:25:12,385
Okay.

852
00:25:12,522 --> 00:25:14,757
Because there are combined

853
00:25:14,757 --> 00:25:17,600
improvements for all four units

854
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,229
on each lot. And even though

855
00:25:19,229 --> 00:25:21,131
these end up being individual

856
00:25:21,131 --> 00:25:24,131
lots, the hoa just covers

857
00:25:24,367 --> 00:25:25,802
everything. Um, the ldc just

858
00:25:25,802 --> 00:25:27,337
provided sort of for these

859
00:25:27,337 --> 00:25:29,440
imaginary lines and it works

860
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:30,141
well, I believe, because it

861
00:25:30,141 --> 00:25:31,943
s

862
00:25:31,943 --> 00:25:34,346
possible to do these types of

863
00:25:34,346 --> 00:25:36,214
projects without how they used

864
00:25:36,214 --> 00:25:38,150
to be was the md. They had to

865
00:25:38,150 --> 00:25:41,150
be the multi dwelling districts

866
00:25:41,286 --> 00:25:43,880
and the r5 and the r7. Now, I

867
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:44,156
guess to me keep it a little

868
00:25:44,156 --> 00:25:44,757
cleaner.

869
00:25:44,757 --> 00:25:46,425
Okay.

870
00:25:46,425 --> 00:25:48,161
But yes, it would be a common

871
00:25:48,161 --> 00:25:48,629
hoa for all eight units.

872
00:25:48,629 --> 00:25:50,629
Okay.

873
00:25:50,664 --> 00:25:52,664
Thank you, Commissioner

874
00:25:54,234 --> 00:25:54,935
Woodruff. Commissioner Jones.

875
00:25:54,935 --> 00:25:56,237
Yeah.

876
00:25:56,237 --> 00:25:57,538
Several of my questions were

877
00:25:57,538 --> 00:25:59,774
already covered by the other

878
00:25:59,774 --> 00:26:01,242
end. Um, the only thing I had a

879
00:26:01,242 --> 00:26:03,144
question about was a parking.

880
00:26:03,144 --> 00:26:03,811
Is it the garage and one space

881
00:26:03,811 --> 00:26:05,614
out front?

882
00:26:05,614 --> 00:26:07,316
There are two spaces out front,

883
00:26:07,316 --> 00:26:09,585
and I apologize. Like I said,

884
00:26:09,585 --> 00:26:12,254
the ai that creates the concept

885
00:26:12,254 --> 00:26:13,456
that created the conceptual,

886
00:26:13,456 --> 00:26:14,357
elevation doesn

887
00:26:14,357 --> 00:26:16,357
t have them

888
00:26:16,392 --> 00:26:17,894
quite as wide. But no, the

889
00:26:17,894 --> 00:26:20,290
intention is that the parking

890
00:26:20,290 --> 00:26:21,631
pad has two spaces. What you

891
00:26:21,631 --> 00:26:23,434
see on the site plan, however,

892
00:26:23,434 --> 00:26:25,336
is short for a parking pad, so

893
00:26:25,336 --> 00:26:27,571
the way it works out is two

894
00:26:27,571 --> 00:26:30,308
cars fully in a garage and then

895
00:26:30,308 --> 00:26:30,642
the garage recessed underneath

896
00:26:30,642 --> 00:26:31,342
where you

897
00:26:31,342 --> 00:26:33,342
re seeing the

898
00:26:33,745 --> 00:26:35,947
roofline so that four cars

899
00:26:35,947 --> 00:26:36,648
could park very easily. Okay.

900
00:26:36,648 --> 00:26:38,648
Thank you. That

901
00:26:39,217 --> 00:26:40,653
s all I have.

902
00:26:40,653 --> 00:26:42,588
Um.

903
00:26:42,588 --> 00:26:45,258
In the notes, the package that

904
00:26:45,258 --> 00:26:46,793
we got there was a, uh. And you

905
00:26:46,793 --> 00:26:49,620
touched on this, but I just

906
00:26:49,620 --> 00:26:51,197
wanted short term rentals.

907
00:26:51,197 --> 00:26:52,366
There was the desire for hoa

908
00:26:52,366 --> 00:26:54,301
covenants. Restricting short

909
00:26:54,301 --> 00:26:54,468
term rentals is that I know

910
00:26:54,468 --> 00:26:55,569
it

911
00:26:55,569 --> 00:26:57,438
s not a condition, nor do I

912
00:26:57,438 --> 00:26:57,639
think it could be. But is that

913
00:26:57,639 --> 00:26:58,940
going.

914
00:26:58,940 --> 00:27:00,942
To be certainly something that

915
00:27:00,942 --> 00:27:02,770
is intended? And if you want

916
00:27:02,770 --> 00:27:02,444
Nathan to address it, I

917
00:27:02,444 --> 00:27:04,444
m sure

918
00:27:04,479 --> 00:27:04,613
he could. But yes, I don

919
00:27:04,613 --> 00:27:06,810
t

920
00:27:06,810 --> 00:27:08,250
believe we have any problem

921
00:27:08,250 --> 00:27:08,717
with a condition that.

922
00:27:08,717 --> 00:27:10,552
Even though.

923
00:27:10,552 --> 00:27:11,186
You self-imposed condition.

924
00:27:11,186 --> 00:27:12,721
Even though. I know.

925
00:27:12,721 --> 00:27:12,869
The guy to make those sketches,

926
00:27:12,869 --> 00:27:13,550
I

927
00:27:13,550 --> 00:27:13,355
ll, I

928
00:27:13,355 --> 00:27:14,223
ll I

929
00:27:14,223 --> 00:27:15,992
ll take your word

930
00:27:15,992 --> 00:27:17,600
for it. Um, and then the last.

931
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:18,495
This is really just a

932
00:27:18,495 --> 00:27:20,297
statement. I know the answer,

933
00:27:20,297 --> 00:27:21,232
but the canal in Eastwood is

934
00:27:21,232 --> 00:27:21,398
signalized, correct?

935
00:27:21,398 --> 00:27:23,398
Yes.

936
00:27:24,902 --> 00:27:25,502
It is. Okay. And that includes,

937
00:27:25,502 --> 00:27:25,769
um.

938
00:27:25,769 --> 00:27:25,869
I don

939
00:27:25,869 --> 00:27:27,571
t.

940
00:27:27,571 --> 00:27:29,674
Have a dedicated movement off

941
00:27:29,674 --> 00:27:31,475
of canal left, right or

942
00:27:31,475 --> 00:27:32,176
straight.

943
00:27:32,176 --> 00:27:32,845
Correct.

944
00:27:32,845 --> 00:27:34,845
Okay.

945
00:27:35,748 --> 00:27:36,115
It is a full. Yes. Left, right

946
00:27:36,115 --> 00:27:37,160
or straight?

947
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:37,950
Yeah. Okay.

948
00:27:37,950 --> 00:27:39,919
Of course. There was a

949
00:27:39,919 --> 00:27:42,919
gentleman parked in the wrong

950
00:27:43,289 --> 00:27:45,391
lane as I was coming down here.

951
00:27:45,391 --> 00:27:45,591
And with crosswalks.

952
00:27:45,591 --> 00:27:46,392
That

953
00:27:46,392 --> 00:27:48,761
s nice. Yeah. And there

954
00:27:48,761 --> 00:27:49,697
are crosswalks that are, uh,

955
00:27:49,697 --> 00:27:51,665
controlled.

956
00:27:51,665 --> 00:27:52,700
Okay, great. Thank you. Any

957
00:27:52,700 --> 00:27:55,100
other questions? Yes, sir.

958
00:27:55,203 --> 00:27:57,203
Commissioner Collier, Cindy.

959
00:27:57,605 --> 00:27:58,740
The only question I really that

960
00:27:58,740 --> 00:28:00,740
I saw just a second ago,

961
00:28:00,740 --> 00:28:02,110
flipping through it now, uh,

962
00:28:02,110 --> 00:28:04,345
the water main on Canal Street

963
00:28:04,345 --> 00:28:06,481
is a two inch main. How would

964
00:28:06,481 --> 00:28:07,383
you how are we providing fire

965
00:28:07,383 --> 00:28:09,383
flow?

966
00:28:11,387 --> 00:28:13,657
Um, it is, there is. And if you

967
00:28:13,657 --> 00:28:13,957
basically on the plan that

968
00:28:13,957 --> 00:28:15,957
s in

969
00:28:15,992 --> 00:28:17,527
front of you, right there is

970
00:28:17,527 --> 00:28:19,229
the fire hydrant. Atlantic

971
00:28:19,229 --> 00:28:20,998
Marine had to extend the fire

972
00:28:20,998 --> 00:28:23,266
hydrant down to the beginning

973
00:28:23,266 --> 00:28:23,433
of their first building. And so

974
00:28:23,433 --> 00:28:25,433
it

975
00:28:25,770 --> 00:28:28,706
s easily within the 400ft.

976
00:28:28,706 --> 00:28:30,342
And then there is, I guess, a

977
00:28:30,342 --> 00:28:33,342
two inch line generally can

978
00:28:35,146 --> 00:28:36,214
feed about 15 units. And right

979
00:28:36,214 --> 00:28:36,682
now.

980
00:28:36,682 --> 00:28:37,416
But I

981
00:28:37,416 --> 00:28:38,160
m not the engineer.

982
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:39,418
So okay.

983
00:28:39,418 --> 00:28:40,753
I understand.

984
00:28:40,753 --> 00:28:42,722
But no, there is a fire.

985
00:28:42,722 --> 00:28:42,889
Hi, where is the hydrant at? I

986
00:28:42,889 --> 00:28:43,523
don

987
00:28:43,523 --> 00:28:44,157
t know, I

988
00:28:44,157 --> 00:28:44,291
m assuming it

989
00:28:44,291 --> 00:28:44,691
s

990
00:28:44,691 --> 00:28:44,925
on the color.

991
00:28:44,925 --> 00:28:45,920
The.

992
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:45,525
Let

993
00:28:45,525 --> 00:28:46,727
s see.

994
00:28:46,727 --> 00:28:47,270
The aerial picture.

995
00:28:47,270 --> 00:28:48,796
I don

996
00:28:48,796 --> 00:28:50,164
t think I have.

997
00:28:50,164 --> 00:28:53,567
Can you point on that thing?

998
00:28:53,567 --> 00:28:56,700
It is just off the lower left

999
00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:56,237
hand side of this picture. So

1000
00:28:56,237 --> 00:28:57,605
it

1001
00:28:57,605 --> 00:28:58,773
s just before the new.

1002
00:28:58,773 --> 00:28:59,540
Mixed use building past the

1003
00:28:59,540 --> 00:29:00,776
buildings and the drive

1004
00:29:00,776 --> 00:29:03,776
through, or just before the

1005
00:29:03,946 --> 00:29:05,414
mixed use building.

1006
00:29:05,414 --> 00:29:07,683
No, the drive through is

1007
00:29:07,683 --> 00:29:08,500
beyond. It is down here. I

1008
00:29:08,500 --> 00:29:08,617
mean, I wouldn

1009
00:29:08,617 --> 00:29:10,617
t be surprised

1010
00:29:10,786 --> 00:29:11,854
if that circle is the valve for

1011
00:29:11,854 --> 00:29:13,854
it.

1012
00:29:20,498 --> 00:29:22,498
Okay.

1013
00:29:22,667 --> 00:29:23,670
All right. Thank you.

1014
00:29:23,670 --> 00:29:25,670
So it

1015
00:29:26,300 --> 00:29:28,390
s within about 150ft of

1016
00:29:28,390 --> 00:29:29,874
our driveway.

1017
00:29:29,874 --> 00:29:31,309
Any other questions from the

1018
00:29:31,309 --> 00:29:32,760
commission?

1019
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,450
Thank you very much.

1020
00:29:34,450 --> 00:29:34,179
Thank you. This time, we

1021
00:29:34,179 --> 00:29:35,714
ll

1022
00:29:35,714 --> 00:29:37,216
open the public hearing and

1023
00:29:37,216 --> 00:29:39,352
invite anyone wishing to speak

1024
00:29:39,352 --> 00:29:42,952
in favor of item number one.

1025
00:29:45,725 --> 00:29:46,993
Please come forward. If you

1026
00:29:46,993 --> 00:29:47,894
could state your name and make

1027
00:29:47,894 --> 00:29:49,396
sure you speak into the

1028
00:29:49,396 --> 00:29:49,563
microphone. So MISS Bradshaw

1029
00:29:49,563 --> 00:29:50,297
isn

1030
00:29:50,297 --> 00:29:51,331
t surely I

1031
00:29:51,331 --> 00:29:53,100
m David Floyd

1032
00:29:53,100 --> 00:29:55,103
and myself and my son Will are

1033
00:29:55,103 --> 00:29:56,638
here. We own the joint

1034
00:29:56,638 --> 00:29:58,730
adjoining property. They are

1035
00:29:58,730 --> 00:30:00,575
across on Canal Street and we

1036
00:30:00,575 --> 00:30:01,843
owned Atlantic Marine. And, um,

1037
00:30:01,843 --> 00:30:02,844
we feel like this would be a

1038
00:30:02,844 --> 00:30:03,450
great use for the property.

1039
00:30:03,450 --> 00:30:04,413
There

1040
00:30:04,413 --> 00:30:05,447
s been several things

1041
00:30:05,447 --> 00:30:06,515
tossed up in the air about what

1042
00:30:06,515 --> 00:30:08,817
might go there, but as far as

1043
00:30:08,817 --> 00:30:10,200
the lowest amount of use and

1044
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:10,220
kind of keeping with what we

1045
00:30:10,220 --> 00:30:11,121
ve

1046
00:30:11,121 --> 00:30:13,230
built on the other side of the

1047
00:30:13,230 --> 00:30:14,591
property, with the mixed use

1048
00:30:14,591 --> 00:30:16,426
homes and offices, I think it

1049
00:30:16,426 --> 00:30:17,394
would kind of fit. And yes,

1050
00:30:17,394 --> 00:30:18,128
there is a fire hydrant right

1051
00:30:18,128 --> 00:30:19,563
on the front edge of the

1052
00:30:19,563 --> 00:30:20,597
property there that we put in.

1053
00:30:20,597 --> 00:30:21,131
So, um, didn

1054
00:30:21,131 --> 00:30:23,434
t if you have any

1055
00:30:23,434 --> 00:30:25,402
questions for me, but, um, we

1056
00:30:25,402 --> 00:30:26,737
have a space to put an approval

1057
00:30:26,737 --> 00:30:27,873
for another building that will

1058
00:30:27,873 --> 00:30:29,374
be putting up at some point in

1059
00:30:29,374 --> 00:30:31,810
time and not in the next few

1060
00:30:31,810 --> 00:30:32,578
weeks by any means. But, um,

1061
00:30:32,578 --> 00:30:33,112
um, I think it

1062
00:30:33,112 --> 00:30:34,130
d be a pleasant

1063
00:30:34,130 --> 00:30:36,849
little addition to the end of

1064
00:30:36,849 --> 00:30:39,819
that street. Thank you very

1065
00:30:39,819 --> 00:30:42,819
much. Anyone else? Anyone else

1066
00:30:43,690 --> 00:30:45,859
wishing to speak in favor?

1067
00:30:45,859 --> 00:30:47,628
Anyone wishing to speak in

1068
00:30:47,628 --> 00:30:50,280
opposition to item number.

1069
00:30:50,131 --> 00:30:52,131
One?

1070
00:30:52,700 --> 00:30:53,701
All right. Hearing none, I will

1071
00:30:53,701 --> 00:30:55,701
close the public.

1072
00:30:56,771 --> 00:30:56,938
Hearing. And, MISS Jones, why

1073
00:30:56,938 --> 00:30:58,938
don

1074
00:30:59,541 --> 00:31:00,275
t we start with you any

1075
00:31:00,275 --> 00:31:01,376
thoughts?

1076
00:31:01,376 --> 00:31:02,111
Um. I

1077
00:31:02,111 --> 00:31:02,912
m good. I

1078
00:31:02,912 --> 00:31:03,946
m very familiar

1079
00:31:03,946 --> 00:31:04,647
with the street. I think it

1080
00:31:04,647 --> 00:31:06,647
s a

1081
00:31:06,816 --> 00:31:08,184
good use, um, for what

1082
00:31:08,184 --> 00:31:09,685
s there.

1083
00:31:09,685 --> 00:31:10,153
And, um, with what

1084
00:31:10,153 --> 00:31:11,870
s happening

1085
00:31:11,870 --> 00:31:12,488
there, especially with having

1086
00:31:12,488 --> 00:31:13,523
the light at the end of the

1087
00:31:13,523 --> 00:31:15,358
street. So I

1088
00:31:15,358 --> 00:31:16,693
m good.

1089
00:31:16,693 --> 00:31:17,600
Commissioner Woodruff.

1090
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:17,194
I think it

1091
00:31:17,194 --> 00:31:18,495
s.

1092
00:31:18,495 --> 00:31:19,530
A great plan. I think a lot of

1093
00:31:19,530 --> 00:31:21,650
work has gone into it. I

1094
00:31:21,650 --> 00:31:22,901
appreciate the effort of Cindy

1095
00:31:22,901 --> 00:31:24,235
and her clients to present it

1096
00:31:24,235 --> 00:31:24,435
to us in the way you have. I

1097
00:31:24,435 --> 00:31:26,137
m

1098
00:31:26,137 --> 00:31:27,339
all for it.

1099
00:31:27,339 --> 00:31:27,472
Thank you, Commissioner Pawlak.

1100
00:31:27,472 --> 00:31:29,400
i

1101
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:30,842
m good.

1102
00:31:30,842 --> 00:31:32,842
Commissioner Adams.

1103
00:31:33,545 --> 00:31:34,947
I appreciate the site plan. Um,

1104
00:31:34,947 --> 00:31:36,248
seeing the tree save and

1105
00:31:36,248 --> 00:31:38,785
looking at how this was

1106
00:31:38,785 --> 00:31:40,754
subdivided. Um, tale of

1107
00:31:40,754 --> 00:31:43,154
caution, though. Relying on,

1108
00:31:43,790 --> 00:31:45,492
uh, artificial intelligence and

1109
00:31:45,492 --> 00:31:46,627
not architectural intelligence.

1110
00:31:46,627 --> 00:31:48,428
I mean, we need to be a little

1111
00:31:48,428 --> 00:31:49,563
careful about that, because you

1112
00:31:49,563 --> 00:31:51,465
could box yourself into

1113
00:31:51,465 --> 00:31:53,167
something that, uh, MAY be

1114
00:31:53,167 --> 00:31:55,704
overly specific, but I. I

1115
00:31:55,704 --> 00:31:57,506
support this project.

1116
00:31:57,506 --> 00:31:58,941
Commissioner Collier.

1117
00:31:58,941 --> 00:31:59,608
Thank you. Yeah, I support the

1118
00:31:59,608 --> 00:31:59,842
project, too. I think it

1119
00:31:59,842 --> 00:32:01,842
s a

1120
00:32:01,944 --> 00:32:02,812
good use in this area. I MAY

1121
00:32:02,812 --> 00:32:04,713
would have had a different

1122
00:32:04,713 --> 00:32:06,615
opinion if a lot of the summer

1123
00:32:06,615 --> 00:32:09,218
Somerset summers rest folks had

1124
00:32:09,218 --> 00:32:11,821
come out. Um, but seeing that

1125
00:32:11,821 --> 00:32:12,990
they are not, um, uh, I am fine

1126
00:32:12,990 --> 00:32:14,491
with it. I think it is really

1127
00:32:14,491 --> 00:32:15,459
nice. Really good use. Thank

1128
00:32:15,459 --> 00:32:17,459
you.

1129
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:19,530
Commissioner Coffer.

1130
00:32:19,530 --> 00:32:21,299
Thank you, MR. Chair. Yes. This

1131
00:32:21,299 --> 00:32:23,434
one. Um, hits close to home for

1132
00:32:23,434 --> 00:32:25,136
me. From personal anecdote,

1133
00:32:25,136 --> 00:32:25,303
personal living experience. I

1134
00:32:25,303 --> 00:32:27,303
m

1135
00:32:28,773 --> 00:32:31,173
actually in that neighborhood.

1136
00:32:31,277 --> 00:32:32,712
No, to the south of, um, these

1137
00:32:32,712 --> 00:32:35,848
the the the high impact zone

1138
00:32:35,848 --> 00:32:37,250
and then the inner tidal zone,

1139
00:32:37,250 --> 00:32:39,619
but nevertheless, I mean, I

1140
00:32:39,619 --> 00:32:41,321
drive past that intersection

1141
00:32:41,321 --> 00:32:44,357
several times a day. And, um, I

1142
00:32:44,357 --> 00:32:44,491
think that, um, the design, as

1143
00:32:44,491 --> 00:32:44,657
I

1144
00:32:44,657 --> 00:32:46,259
m I

1145
00:32:46,259 --> 00:32:47,595
ll echo my colleagues up

1146
00:32:47,595 --> 00:32:49,300
here as sentiments on the

1147
00:32:49,300 --> 00:32:51,430
design and taking careful

1148
00:32:51,432 --> 00:32:52,834
attention to tree protection,

1149
00:32:52,834 --> 00:32:53,134
um, the stormwater plan, of

1150
00:32:53,134 --> 00:32:53,969
course, it

1151
00:32:53,969 --> 00:32:56,638
s going to come with

1152
00:32:56,638 --> 00:32:58,807
this type of project. Um, and

1153
00:32:58,807 --> 00:33:00,509
just paying careful, discerning

1154
00:33:00,509 --> 00:33:03,312
attention to the sensitivity of

1155
00:33:03,312 --> 00:33:06,616
the, of that area. Um, I think

1156
00:33:06,616 --> 00:33:08,518
when you look at, um, the, the

1157
00:33:08,518 --> 00:33:09,152
zone itself cut by Mott

1158
00:33:09,152 --> 00:33:11,152
s

1159
00:33:11,955 --> 00:33:14,925
Creek, you know, the tampering,

1160
00:33:14,925 --> 00:33:17,925
um, and the transition from

1161
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:19,263
Grand View down to a 35 foot

1162
00:33:19,263 --> 00:33:20,598
structure, you know, and

1163
00:33:20,598 --> 00:33:22,901
condensing the density into

1164
00:33:22,901 --> 00:33:23,168
that design footprint, you

1165
00:33:23,168 --> 00:33:23,468
know, it

1166
00:33:23,468 --> 00:33:24,302
s just it

1167
00:33:24,302 --> 00:33:26,302
s modern

1168
00:33:27,272 --> 00:33:27,439
urban design standards that

1169
00:33:27,439 --> 00:33:28,507
we

1170
00:33:28,507 --> 00:33:30,750
re putting into practice.

1171
00:33:30,750 --> 00:33:30,843
And I certainly, um, certainly

1172
00:33:30,843 --> 00:33:31,760
support it. I think it

1173
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:31,210
s a it

1174
00:33:31,210 --> 00:33:32,744
s

1175
00:33:32,744 --> 00:33:32,978
a good project. So I

1176
00:33:32,978 --> 00:33:33,979
m in

1177
00:33:33,979 --> 00:33:35,979
favor.

1178
00:33:37,950 --> 00:33:39,185
Thank you. Um.

1179
00:33:39,185 --> 00:33:41,210
Being involved in the latter

1180
00:33:41,210 --> 00:33:42,957
part of the rewrite of the ldc,

1181
00:33:42,957 --> 00:33:44,859
this is what we asked for. So

1182
00:33:44,859 --> 00:33:48,459
thank you. What are the wishes

1183
00:33:48,729 --> 00:33:48,863
of the commission?

1184
00:33:48,863 --> 00:33:50,863
I

1185
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:52,867
ll make a motion to approve.

1186
00:33:52,867 --> 00:33:54,867
Uh, let

1187
00:34:02,411 --> 00:34:02,812
s see here. MR.

1188
00:34:02,812 --> 00:34:03,479
CHAIRMAN, I

1189
00:34:03,479 --> 00:34:04,847
d like to make a

1190
00:34:04,847 --> 00:34:06,820
motion to approve agenda item

1191
00:34:06,820 --> 00:34:08,751
number one. The request to

1192
00:34:08,751 --> 00:34:11,151
rezone 120 and 124 Canal Street

1193
00:34:11,154 --> 00:34:12,522
from our 20 legacy residential

1194
00:34:12,522 --> 00:34:13,924
district to our seven

1195
00:34:13,924 --> 00:34:15,924
conditional district. Moderate

1196
00:34:16,194 --> 00:34:17,695
density residential. Um, the

1197
00:34:17,695 --> 00:34:19,230
Planning Commission deems this

1198
00:34:19,230 --> 00:34:21,633
request is consistent with the

1199
00:34:21,633 --> 00:34:23,670
objectives and policies of the

1200
00:34:23,670 --> 00:34:24,569
following plans adopted by the

1201
00:34:24,569 --> 00:34:27,239
City of Wilmington. The Create

1202
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:28,340
Wilmington Comprehensive Plan,

1203
00:34:28,340 --> 00:34:29,775
the Planning Commission

1204
00:34:29,775 --> 00:34:30,976
considers its approval to be

1205
00:34:30,976 --> 00:34:32,378
reasonable and in the public

1206
00:34:32,378 --> 00:34:34,800
interest. Because the proposal

1207
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,160
provides greater environmental

1208
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,160
protection, expands housing

1209
00:34:38,510 --> 00:34:39,386
opportunities, and serves as an

1210
00:34:39,386 --> 00:34:40,654
appropriate transition between

1211
00:34:40,654 --> 00:34:42,389
existing commercial and

1212
00:34:42,389 --> 00:34:43,189
residential areas. Therefore,

1213
00:34:43,189 --> 00:34:44,358
the Planning Commission

1214
00:34:44,358 --> 00:34:46,326
recommends approval of this

1215
00:34:46,326 --> 00:34:48,326
request.

1216
00:34:49,196 --> 00:34:50,599
Of second. Second move by

1217
00:34:50,599 --> 00:34:52,467
Commissioner Coffer, seconded

1218
00:34:52,467 --> 00:34:54,203
by. Excuse me, Commissioner

1219
00:34:54,203 --> 00:34:56,400
Adams. Commissioner Jones, how

1220
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:57,806
do you vote? I.

1221
00:34:57,806 --> 00:34:58,941
I.

1222
00:34:58,941 --> 00:34:59,108
, I.

1223
00:34:59,108 --> 00:34:59,641
Can

1224
00:34:59,641 --> 00:35:01,641
t talk.

1225
00:35:01,777 --> 00:35:03,120
Commissioner Pawlak.

1226
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,120
I can I

1227
00:35:05,140 --> 00:35:06,883
m sorry, I..

1228
00:35:06,883 --> 00:35:08,850
MR. Adams. Yes, Commissioner.

1229
00:35:08,850 --> 00:35:10,850
Collier. Yes, Commissioner

1230
00:35:10,870 --> 00:35:12,957
Kupfer, a chair votes I as

1231
00:35:12,957 --> 00:35:14,957
well. Congratulations. Seven

1232
00:35:26,605 --> 00:35:27,907
zero. In favor? Agenda item

1233
00:35:27,907 --> 00:35:30,907
number two is a conditional

1234
00:35:31,177 --> 00:35:33,177
district rezoning modification

1235
00:35:33,446 --> 00:35:35,446
for properties containing 12.26

1236
00:35:36,716 --> 00:35:39,116
acres located at 2225 Stonecrop

1237
00:35:39,285 --> 00:35:41,354
Drive and 1124 Gallery Park

1238
00:35:41,354 --> 00:35:42,924
Boulevard, from an existing oh

1239
00:35:42,924 --> 00:35:44,625
and office institutional

1240
00:35:44,625 --> 00:35:46,494
conditional district to a new

1241
00:35:46,494 --> 00:35:48,494
Odni offices. Institutional

1242
00:35:48,596 --> 00:35:49,697
conditional district to allow

1243
00:35:49,697 --> 00:35:51,299
for a future mixed use

1244
00:35:51,299 --> 00:35:52,934
development in MISS Hopkins

1245
00:35:52,934 --> 00:35:54,436
will be presenting..

1246
00:35:54,436 --> 00:35:55,804
Good evening chair, Vice Chair

1247
00:35:55,804 --> 00:35:57,172
and members of the Planning

1248
00:35:57,172 --> 00:35:58,307
Commission for your review.

1249
00:35:58,307 --> 00:35:59,675
This evening I present a

1250
00:35:59,675 --> 00:36:00,877
conditional rezoning from an

1251
00:36:00,877 --> 00:36:01,978
existing office and

1252
00:36:01,978 --> 00:36:03,680
institutional conditional

1253
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:04,814
district to a new office and

1254
00:36:04,814 --> 00:36:06,814
institutional conditional

1255
00:36:08,185 --> 00:36:10,185
district at 2225 Stonecrop

1256
00:36:10,420 --> 00:36:12,820
Drive and 1124 Gallery Park

1257
00:36:14,570 --> 00:36:15,793
Boulevard. Prior to submittal,

1258
00:36:15,793 --> 00:36:19,970
a community meeting was held in

1259
00:36:19,970 --> 00:36:20,999
JUNE of 2026. The application

1260
00:36:20,999 --> 00:36:22,634
was submitted in JULY of 2026

1261
00:36:22,634 --> 00:36:24,269
and reviewed by staff, and it

1262
00:36:24,269 --> 00:36:27,873
is now here for your review and

1263
00:36:27,873 --> 00:36:30,273
recommendation. The site is

1264
00:36:30,376 --> 00:36:31,377
currently zoned o and I cd

1265
00:36:31,377 --> 00:36:32,511
Office and Institutional

1266
00:36:32,511 --> 00:36:33,913
Conditional District, and is

1267
00:36:33,913 --> 00:36:35,515
part of the Berkeley West

1268
00:36:35,515 --> 00:36:36,883
Master Plan. Development.

1269
00:36:36,883 --> 00:36:37,952
Potential uses include

1270
00:36:37,952 --> 00:36:39,952
professional and medical

1271
00:36:40,220 --> 00:36:41,989
offices, places of assembly,

1272
00:36:41,989 --> 00:36:43,424
small scale services and

1273
00:36:43,424 --> 00:36:45,824
commercial district mixed use,

1274
00:36:46,594 --> 00:36:49,197
all limited to a height of 45ft

1275
00:36:49,197 --> 00:36:50,765
or 96ft with a step back.

1276
00:36:50,765 --> 00:36:52,201
Existing conditions apply to

1277
00:36:52,201 --> 00:36:53,636
all Berkeley West. Developments

1278
00:36:53,636 --> 00:36:55,636
include required architectural

1279
00:36:55,705 --> 00:36:57,506
consistency with existing and

1280
00:36:57,506 --> 00:36:59,375
future phases of development.

1281
00:36:59,375 --> 00:37:00,777
Limits on residential density,

1282
00:37:00,777 --> 00:37:02,812
and the prohibition of strip

1283
00:37:02,812 --> 00:37:04,314
retail. The applicant proposes

1284
00:37:04,314 --> 00:37:06,349
a new owned conditional

1285
00:37:06,349 --> 00:37:08,618
district that allows all office

1286
00:37:08,618 --> 00:37:09,687
and institutional uses as

1287
00:37:09,687 --> 00:37:11,589
allowed today, with the

1288
00:37:11,589 --> 00:37:13,224
exclusion of crematory, funeral

1289
00:37:13,224 --> 00:37:14,759
homes and mortuaries, railroad

1290
00:37:14,759 --> 00:37:16,759
facilities, and wireless

1291
00:37:16,795 --> 00:37:17,929
telecommunication facilities.

1292
00:37:17,929 --> 00:37:19,970
The proposed conditions

1293
00:37:19,970 --> 00:37:21,970
maintain architectural

1294
00:37:21,199 --> 00:37:22,133
consistency as a priority set.

1295
00:37:22,133 --> 00:37:23,435
Minimum ground floor

1296
00:37:23,435 --> 00:37:25,170
fenestration standards, and

1297
00:37:25,170 --> 00:37:27,570
maximum building setbacks, and

1298
00:37:31,711 --> 00:37:32,979
define locations for parking.

1299
00:37:32,979 --> 00:37:34,314
This map shows the site and the

1300
00:37:34,314 --> 00:37:35,849
general vicinity surrounding

1301
00:37:35,849 --> 00:37:38,518
the request. The site is in the

1302
00:37:38,518 --> 00:37:41,518
vicinity of the Point Midtown

1303
00:37:44,325 --> 00:37:45,727
ymca and Halliburton Park. A

1304
00:37:45,727 --> 00:37:47,596
portion of the site to the

1305
00:37:47,596 --> 00:37:48,964
north is an existing medical

1306
00:37:48,964 --> 00:37:51,200
office, while the larger

1307
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:52,467
portion to the south is vacant.

1308
00:37:52,467 --> 00:37:54,300
Surrounding uses include

1309
00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:55,504
commercial to the north,

1310
00:37:55,504 --> 00:37:58,504
multifamily to the east and

1311
00:38:01,210 --> 00:38:02,679
south, and vacant to the west.

1312
00:38:02,679 --> 00:38:03,981
The site is currently zoned

1313
00:38:03,981 --> 00:38:05,182
Office and Institutional

1314
00:38:05,182 --> 00:38:06,617
conditional district.

1315
00:38:06,617 --> 00:38:08,617
Surrounding districts include

1316
00:38:10,121 --> 00:38:12,490
rb and rb, cd to the north, emd

1317
00:38:12,490 --> 00:38:16,900
17 cd to the east and south,

1318
00:38:19,131 --> 00:38:20,666
and rb cd to the west. These

1319
00:38:20,666 --> 00:38:22,670
are photos of the existing site

1320
00:38:22,670 --> 00:38:23,680
conditions. The site currently

1321
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:24,970
includes Wilmington Health

1322
00:38:24,970 --> 00:38:27,970
Building one and a vacant

1323
00:38:28,541 --> 00:38:29,942
property. These are views of

1324
00:38:29,942 --> 00:38:31,344
the subject property from

1325
00:38:31,344 --> 00:38:32,745
several viewpoints, including

1326
00:38:32,745 --> 00:38:34,130
looking east on Gallery Park

1327
00:38:34,130 --> 00:38:36,413
Boulevard and south on

1328
00:38:38,653 --> 00:38:39,854
Stonecrop Drive. These are

1329
00:38:39,854 --> 00:38:41,756
photos of the adjacent

1330
00:38:41,756 --> 00:38:43,240
properties and land uses. There

1331
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:44,580
is a hotel to the north, a

1332
00:38:44,580 --> 00:38:45,827
medical office under

1333
00:38:45,827 --> 00:38:47,662
construction to the east, and

1334
00:38:47,662 --> 00:38:51,262
vacant parcels to the south and

1335
00:38:55,204 --> 00:38:56,673
west. This site is part of the

1336
00:38:56,673 --> 00:38:59,730
Berkeley West Master Plan

1337
00:38:59,142 --> 00:39:00,243
development, approved in 2013.

1338
00:39:00,243 --> 00:39:01,745
Conditions and design

1339
00:39:01,745 --> 00:39:02,979
strategies adopted at the time

1340
00:39:02,979 --> 00:39:04,281
apply to all sites in the

1341
00:39:04,281 --> 00:39:06,550
master planned area that have

1342
00:39:06,550 --> 00:39:07,784
not been rezoned since 2013. A

1343
00:39:07,784 --> 00:39:09,153
few conditions important to

1344
00:39:09,153 --> 00:39:10,988
this site include requiring

1345
00:39:10,988 --> 00:39:12,457
architectural consistency,

1346
00:39:12,457 --> 00:39:14,457
prohibiting strip retail,

1347
00:39:14,492 --> 00:39:16,261
integratg a mix of uses,

1348
00:39:16,261 --> 00:39:17,496
providing ample open space, and

1349
00:39:17,496 --> 00:39:19,564
preserving trees above the

1350
00:39:19,564 --> 00:39:22,101
requirements of the ldc, and

1351
00:39:22,101 --> 00:39:23,602
limiting residential density in

1352
00:39:23,602 --> 00:39:26,380
areas of the master plan zoned

1353
00:39:26,380 --> 00:39:28,741
o and I and rb. Residential

1354
00:39:28,741 --> 00:39:30,177
density is limited to 116

1355
00:39:30,177 --> 00:39:31,945
units. This currently leaves

1356
00:39:31,945 --> 00:39:33,881
the development with 44 more

1357
00:39:33,881 --> 00:39:36,281
potential units in commercial

1358
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:40,421
areas. Site specific conditions

1359
00:39:40,421 --> 00:39:42,123
that prohibit non compatible

1360
00:39:42,123 --> 00:39:43,557
uses remove the existing limit

1361
00:39:43,557 --> 00:39:45,260
on density. Maintain

1362
00:39:45,260 --> 00:39:46,427
architectural consistency

1363
00:39:46,427 --> 00:39:48,130
across the current and future

1364
00:39:48,130 --> 00:39:49,565
phases of development, and set

1365
00:39:49,565 --> 00:39:51,167
design standards for parking

1366
00:39:51,167 --> 00:39:53,167
locations, building setbacks

1367
00:39:53,335 --> 00:39:55,171
and fenestration are proposed.

1368
00:39:55,171 --> 00:39:56,639
A master Tia was completed for

1369
00:39:56,639 --> 00:39:58,408
the planned development. At the

1370
00:39:58,408 --> 00:40:00,430
time of its approval, the

1371
00:40:00,430 --> 00:40:01,844
conditions and the trc process

1372
00:40:01,844 --> 00:40:03,379
will require an updated Tia for

1373
00:40:03,379 --> 00:40:04,649
this phase of the development.

1374
00:40:04,649 --> 00:40:06,250
Any improvements to

1375
00:40:06,250 --> 00:40:07,585
infrastructure recommended in

1376
00:40:07,585 --> 00:40:08,419
this Tia would need to be

1377
00:40:08,419 --> 00:40:09,620
completed before the

1378
00:40:09,620 --> 00:40:12,200
development could receive its

1379
00:40:12,223 --> 00:40:13,424
Certificate of Occupancy. The

1380
00:40:13,424 --> 00:40:14,859
proposed conditional district

1381
00:40:14,859 --> 00:40:16,594
would remove the limit on

1382
00:40:16,594 --> 00:40:17,729
residential density included in

1383
00:40:17,729 --> 00:40:19,640
the current conditions, and it

1384
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,333
would be subject to the limits

1385
00:40:21,333 --> 00:40:24,333
of the underlying zoning only

1386
00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:26,539
at 17 units per acre. If the

1387
00:40:26,539 --> 00:40:27,607
development were to commit 10%

1388
00:40:27,607 --> 00:40:28,942
of residential units to

1389
00:40:28,942 --> 00:40:30,543
workforce housing for a period

1390
00:40:30,543 --> 00:40:34,143
of 15 years, there would be no

1391
00:40:35,482 --> 00:40:36,183
limit on density. Staff has

1392
00:40:36,183 --> 00:40:36,550
reviewed this application

1393
00:40:36,550 --> 00:40:37,918
s

1394
00:40:37,918 --> 00:40:39,320
alignment with relevant adopted

1395
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:40,555
plans. The Create Wilmington

1396
00:40:40,555 --> 00:40:43,555
Comprehensive Plan is the only

1397
00:40:44,292 --> 00:40:45,627
plan that applies to this site.

1398
00:40:45,627 --> 00:40:46,940
The comprehensive plan

1399
00:40:46,940 --> 00:40:48,940
s growth

1400
00:40:48,130 --> 00:40:49,331
strategies maps identifies

1401
00:40:49,331 --> 00:40:50,832
areas of opportunity with

1402
00:40:50,832 --> 00:40:52,568
corresponding policies to guide

1403
00:40:52,568 --> 00:40:54,236
the look, feel, and use of new

1404
00:40:54,236 --> 00:40:55,604
development. This site is

1405
00:40:55,604 --> 00:40:57,730
located in a greenfield sites

1406
00:40:57,730 --> 00:40:58,608
as multi-use places, area of

1407
00:40:58,608 --> 00:41:00,177
opportunity and a mixed use

1408
00:41:00,177 --> 00:41:01,678
place. The comprehensive plan

1409
00:41:01,678 --> 00:41:03,678
recommends moderate densities

1410
00:41:03,714 --> 00:41:07,314
and lot coverages in mixed use

1411
00:41:08,152 --> 00:41:09,620
places. The comprehensive plan

1412
00:41:09,620 --> 00:41:10,921
also offers broader policy

1413
00:41:10,921 --> 00:41:12,356
guidance to shape new

1414
00:41:12,356 --> 00:41:14,126
development throughout the

1415
00:41:14,126 --> 00:41:15,227
city. Staff assess this

1416
00:41:15,227 --> 00:41:16,528
application with relevant

1417
00:41:16,528 --> 00:41:17,429
policies and found modest

1418
00:41:17,429 --> 00:41:17,830
support for the application

1419
00:41:17,830 --> 00:41:19,598
s

1420
00:41:19,598 --> 00:41:21,367
alignment with the plan. Key

1421
00:41:21,367 --> 00:41:23,169
policies that support this

1422
00:41:23,169 --> 00:41:24,871
request highlight the need for

1423
00:41:24,871 --> 00:41:26,472
well-planned, mixed use centers

1424
00:41:26,472 --> 00:41:28,174
with a diverse mix of uses and

1425
00:41:28,174 --> 00:41:29,909
integrated design, while

1426
00:41:29,909 --> 00:41:31,909
discouraging strip commercial

1427
00:41:32,146 --> 00:41:33,113
retail development. Staff finds

1428
00:41:33,113 --> 00:41:34,114
this location to be well

1429
00:41:34,114 --> 00:41:35,583
connected to three major

1430
00:41:35,583 --> 00:41:37,218
roadways 17th Street,

1431
00:41:37,218 --> 00:41:39,218
Independence Boulevard, and

1432
00:41:42,957 --> 00:41:44,426
Carolina Beach Road. One

1433
00:41:44,426 --> 00:41:45,693
comment has been received in

1434
00:41:45,693 --> 00:41:46,895
opposition, noting concerns

1435
00:41:46,895 --> 00:41:49,295
with traffic impacts and

1436
00:41:52,335 --> 00:41:53,870
multimodal connectivity. In

1437
00:41:53,870 --> 00:41:54,971
summary, this proposal requests

1438
00:41:54,971 --> 00:41:57,600
to rezone the site from an

1439
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,209
existing owned icd to a new

1440
00:41:59,209 --> 00:42:00,677
owned icd with new conditions

1441
00:42:00,677 --> 00:42:02,450
that remove the existing limit

1442
00:42:02,450 --> 00:42:04,450
on density, maintain

1443
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:05,382
architectural consistency, and

1444
00:42:05,382 --> 00:42:07,285
set direction for ground floor

1445
00:42:07,285 --> 00:42:08,887
fenestration, building setbacks

1446
00:42:08,887 --> 00:42:10,488
and parking locations. The

1447
00:42:10,488 --> 00:42:12,290
comprehensive plan encourages a

1448
00:42:12,290 --> 00:42:13,792
diverse mix of uses, moderate

1449
00:42:13,792 --> 00:42:14,926
density, and compatible design

1450
00:42:14,926 --> 00:42:17,926
that aligns with the existing

1451
00:42:18,297 --> 00:42:19,698
character of this development.

1452
00:42:19,698 --> 00:42:20,833
Staff finds the request to be

1453
00:42:20,833 --> 00:42:22,801
consistent with the Wilmington

1454
00:42:22,801 --> 00:42:24,738
Comprehensive Plan reasonable

1455
00:42:24,738 --> 00:42:26,807
and in public interest. Staff

1456
00:42:26,807 --> 00:42:27,874
recommends approval. I am happy

1457
00:42:27,874 --> 00:42:29,743
to answer any questions and the

1458
00:42:29,743 --> 00:42:31,211
applicant is present as well.

1459
00:42:31,211 --> 00:42:33,611
Thank you, MISS Hopkins.

1460
00:42:34,810 --> 00:42:34,515
Commissioner Jones.

1461
00:42:34,515 --> 00:42:36,250
I don

1462
00:42:36,250 --> 00:42:36,984
t have any questions yet.

1463
00:42:36,984 --> 00:42:38,984
Okay.

1464
00:42:40,888 --> 00:42:42,888
Commissioner.

1465
00:42:43,859 --> 00:42:44,593
The reference to, uh, workforce

1466
00:42:44,593 --> 00:42:45,260
housing, it

1467
00:42:45,260 --> 00:42:45,761
s just kind of a

1468
00:42:45,761 --> 00:42:46,595
statement that

1469
00:42:46,595 --> 00:42:48,995
s in there. Was

1470
00:42:49,198 --> 00:42:51,000
there discussions about that or

1471
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:52,435
recommendations about that or

1472
00:42:52,435 --> 00:42:53,536
refusal of that?

1473
00:42:53,536 --> 00:42:55,604
Um, there was just a brief

1474
00:42:55,604 --> 00:42:57,240
discussion that because they

1475
00:42:57,240 --> 00:42:58,274
were looking to remove that

1476
00:42:58,274 --> 00:42:59,276
limit on density, that that was

1477
00:42:59,276 --> 00:43:00,878
an option that they could

1478
00:43:00,878 --> 00:43:02,790
pursue if they chose to, but

1479
00:43:02,790 --> 00:43:04,181
they did not indicate any

1480
00:43:04,181 --> 00:43:06,181
interest or disinterest.

1481
00:43:06,484 --> 00:43:08,884
All right. Thank you.

1482
00:43:09,387 --> 00:43:10,321
Commissioner Pawlak.

1483
00:43:10,321 --> 00:43:10,455
Nothing at this point. I

1484
00:43:10,455 --> 00:43:12,257
ll

1485
00:43:12,257 --> 00:43:14,250
wait for the applicant.

1486
00:43:14,250 --> 00:43:15,860
Commissioner Adams.

1487
00:43:15,860 --> 00:43:17,797
Could you go back a slide to

1488
00:43:17,797 --> 00:43:20,197
your conditions? One more

1489
00:43:21,267 --> 00:43:23,269
slide. Um, so the to reach the

1490
00:43:23,269 --> 00:43:24,738
17 units per acre in the. Oh,

1491
00:43:24,738 --> 00:43:27,541
Annie density would would that

1492
00:43:27,541 --> 00:43:29,776
require the cdm? You overlay

1493
00:43:29,776 --> 00:43:30,777
kind of design aspect to that.

1494
00:43:30,777 --> 00:43:32,412
Correct. It would be through

1495
00:43:32,412 --> 00:43:33,413
cdm. Q but they could use the

1496
00:43:33,413 --> 00:43:34,949
existing Wilmington Health

1497
00:43:34,949 --> 00:43:35,984
Building as that commercial

1498
00:43:35,984 --> 00:43:37,984
component.

1499
00:43:38,553 --> 00:43:41,423
Okay. All right. Thank you..

1500
00:43:41,423 --> 00:43:42,824
Commissioner Collier.

1501
00:43:42,824 --> 00:43:44,659
Commissioner coffer.

1502
00:43:44,659 --> 00:43:45,794
Thank you, MR. Chair. Yeah, I

1503
00:43:45,794 --> 00:43:46,461
MISS Hopkins. I can

1504
00:43:46,461 --> 00:43:48,461
t put my

1505
00:43:48,597 --> 00:43:49,932
fingers on what exactly is the

1506
00:43:49,932 --> 00:43:51,468
maximum number of residential

1507
00:43:51,468 --> 00:43:52,936
units allowed?

1508
00:43:52,936 --> 00:43:53,303
Allowed in? Oh, and I are

1509
00:43:53,303 --> 00:43:55,303
currently.

1510
00:43:55,505 --> 00:43:55,772
Allowed in this master plan. I

1511
00:43:55,772 --> 00:43:56,873
mean, we

1512
00:43:56,873 --> 00:43:58,873
re.

1513
00:43:59,676 --> 00:44:02,112
For this site. There are 44

1514
00:44:02,112 --> 00:44:04,148
units that they could build the

1515
00:44:04,148 --> 00:44:07,748
total limit on. On the Berkeley

1516
00:44:08,752 --> 00:44:11,190
West master plan is 1375, I

1517
00:44:11,190 --> 00:44:13,192
believe, but only 116 were able

1518
00:44:13,192 --> 00:44:14,760
to be in commercial areas. So

1519
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,897
they have built out a lot of

1520
00:44:18,897 --> 00:44:20,800
that 116. They have 44 left.

1521
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,468
Okay. Thank you. That was what

1522
00:44:22,468 --> 00:44:24,270
I was curious about. And this

1523
00:44:24,270 --> 00:44:27,107
Tia update that would be

1524
00:44:27,107 --> 00:44:27,274
required. Um, I mean, I just

1525
00:44:27,274 --> 00:44:28,575
it

1526
00:44:28,575 --> 00:44:30,100
s procedural question. Is

1527
00:44:30,100 --> 00:44:31,545
that something that just comes

1528
00:44:31,545 --> 00:44:32,580
down the road. When does that

1529
00:44:32,580 --> 00:44:34,580
all occur?

1530
00:44:34,815 --> 00:44:35,783
When they apply for a pre trc

1531
00:44:35,783 --> 00:44:37,252
and go through the formal

1532
00:44:37,252 --> 00:44:38,860
technical review process. That

1533
00:44:38,860 --> 00:44:41,686
is when they will need to

1534
00:44:41,856 --> 00:44:43,358
complete a Tia. Mm.

1535
00:44:43,358 --> 00:44:44,527
I just I

1536
00:44:44,527 --> 00:44:45,528
m sorry.

1537
00:44:45,528 --> 00:44:48,528
And then the last question

1538
00:44:48,965 --> 00:44:49,232
would just be I MAY have I MISS

1539
00:44:49,232 --> 00:44:50,166
I couldn

1540
00:44:50,166 --> 00:44:50,433
t quite hear MR.

1541
00:44:50,433 --> 00:44:52,368
Woodruff

1542
00:44:52,368 --> 00:44:55,205
s question, but I MAY

1543
00:44:55,205 --> 00:44:57,107
be repeating it. Was there any

1544
00:44:57,107 --> 00:44:59,900
discussion on the cap of uh,

1545
00:44:59,900 --> 00:45:02,900
with the being eliminated with

1546
00:45:02,313 --> 00:45:03,514
the 10%, uh, workforce housing?

1547
00:45:03,514 --> 00:45:04,716
Uh, minimal? We mentioned that

1548
00:45:04,716 --> 00:45:06,684
it was an option, but they did

1549
00:45:06,684 --> 00:45:07,352
not share interest or lack of

1550
00:45:07,352 --> 00:45:09,352
interest.

1551
00:45:09,588 --> 00:45:12,588
Okay. Thank you so much.

1552
00:45:13,191 --> 00:45:15,727
I just had a quick question on

1553
00:45:15,727 --> 00:45:17,830
page 17 of the handout.

1554
00:45:17,830 --> 00:45:20,767
Actually on page 16 of our

1555
00:45:20,767 --> 00:45:22,669
package. Um, the level of

1556
00:45:22,669 --> 00:45:23,303
service for the adjacent roads

1557
00:45:23,303 --> 00:45:25,720
are all a

1558
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:27,720
s with planning

1559
00:45:30,377 --> 00:45:33,347
capacity of 9080 ts. Is that

1560
00:45:33,347 --> 00:45:34,949
sound familiar? Yes. Okay, so

1561
00:45:34,949 --> 00:45:36,652
looking down at the projected

1562
00:45:36,652 --> 00:45:38,554
difference by if this request

1563
00:45:38,554 --> 00:45:40,255
were to be successful, I mean,

1564
00:45:40,255 --> 00:45:41,458
in your experience, is a

1565
00:45:41,458 --> 00:45:42,758
medical office building more

1566
00:45:42,758 --> 00:45:45,561
impactful to traffic or an

1567
00:45:45,561 --> 00:45:46,950
apartment building?

1568
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:47,290
Um, I wouldn

1569
00:45:47,290 --> 00:45:48,965
t say in my

1570
00:45:48,965 --> 00:45:50,633
experience, but looking at the

1571
00:45:50,633 --> 00:45:52,368
numbers, you do see more trips

1572
00:45:52,368 --> 00:45:55,205
generated from a medical office

1573
00:45:55,205 --> 00:45:55,639
than you do from multifamily.

1574
00:45:55,639 --> 00:45:57,740
Okay?

1575
00:45:57,740 --> 00:45:58,209
Especially at the scale that

1576
00:45:58,209 --> 00:45:59,143
they could build on this size

1577
00:45:59,143 --> 00:46:01,143
of a site.

1578
00:46:01,946 --> 00:46:02,113
Okay. Well, yeah. Yes, because

1579
00:46:02,113 --> 00:46:04,113
one

1580
00:46:05,450 --> 00:46:07,850
s forecasted to be

1581
00:46:08,219 --> 00:46:09,420
213,000ft.

1582
00:46:09,420 --> 00:46:11,857
Okay. Because they can build up

1583
00:46:11,857 --> 00:46:14,930
to 40%. Okay of the site area.

1584
00:46:14,930 --> 00:46:16,596
So really this is reducing the

1585
00:46:16,596 --> 00:46:16,796
potential traffic impact. If

1586
00:46:16,796 --> 00:46:17,330
they

1587
00:46:17,330 --> 00:46:19,730
re if they went

1588
00:46:19,799 --> 00:46:22,799
residential as opposed to oh

1589
00:46:23,300 --> 00:46:23,436
and I the office buildings.

1590
00:46:23,436 --> 00:46:24,170
I don

1591
00:46:24,170 --> 00:46:24,337
t know that I would say

1592
00:46:24,337 --> 00:46:25,338
it

1593
00:46:25,338 --> 00:46:27,106
s reducing because they

1594
00:46:27,106 --> 00:46:28,241
could build medical offices

1595
00:46:28,241 --> 00:46:29,310
today. They could build it with

1596
00:46:29,310 --> 00:46:30,578
this rezoning. This just

1597
00:46:30,578 --> 00:46:31,779
creates the opportunity for

1598
00:46:31,779 --> 00:46:32,814
them to build more residential.

1599
00:46:32,814 --> 00:46:35,214
If they choose to.

1600
00:46:36,170 --> 00:46:37,819
Got it. Okay. Better said. Any

1601
00:46:37,819 --> 00:46:39,688
other questions from the

1602
00:46:39,688 --> 00:46:40,550
commission, Commissioner

1603
00:46:40,550 --> 00:46:40,555
Collier.

1604
00:46:40,555 --> 00:46:41,456
While we

1605
00:46:41,456 --> 00:46:43,856
re on traffic, though,

1606
00:46:43,959 --> 00:46:46,296
the medical office, before

1607
00:46:46,296 --> 00:46:47,897
their intensity was 642. Was

1608
00:46:47,897 --> 00:46:48,231
that a limit or was it just how

1609
00:46:48,231 --> 00:46:48,431
much is it?

1610
00:46:48,431 --> 00:46:48,631
That

1611
00:46:48,631 --> 00:46:49,399
s what

1612
00:46:49,399 --> 00:46:51,399
s currently built.

1613
00:46:52,769 --> 00:46:55,769
Okay, so the 213, the proposed

1614
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:56,406
213 change that is a max number

1615
00:46:56,406 --> 00:46:57,608
two or that

1616
00:46:57,608 --> 00:46:57,775
s a proposal or

1617
00:46:57,775 --> 00:46:58,675
it

1618
00:46:58,675 --> 00:47:00,244
s just a max. They could get

1619
00:47:00,244 --> 00:47:01,311
in with the oh and icd.

1620
00:47:01,311 --> 00:47:02,213
That would be the maximum that

1621
00:47:02,213 --> 00:47:04,750
they could get in. Oh and.

1622
00:47:04,750 --> 00:47:06,285
I and I, I agree with the uh

1623
00:47:06,285 --> 00:47:08,887
with MR., with CHAIRMAN Linden

1624
00:47:08,887 --> 00:47:09,288
too. It is more of a traffic

1625
00:47:09,288 --> 00:47:10,389
less it

1626
00:47:10,389 --> 00:47:11,557
s lessening of track it

1627
00:47:11,557 --> 00:47:14,894
more than it more so than it is

1628
00:47:14,894 --> 00:47:16,696
adding to it. I believe so..

1629
00:47:16,696 --> 00:47:17,396
Any other questions for MISS

1630
00:47:17,396 --> 00:47:18,931
Hopkins?

1631
00:47:18,931 --> 00:47:19,650
Thank you. Thank you.

1632
00:47:19,650 --> 00:47:19,899
I

1633
00:47:19,899 --> 00:47:22,899
d like to invite the

1634
00:47:32,513 --> 00:47:34,315
applicant.

1635
00:47:34,315 --> 00:47:35,160
Good evening. Good evening,

1636
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:36,384
MR..

1637
00:47:36,384 --> 00:47:37,719
CHAIRMAN, and members of the

1638
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:38,319
Commission. My name is Matt

1639
00:47:38,319 --> 00:47:39,422
Nichols. I

1640
00:47:39,422 --> 00:47:40,723
m an attorney in

1641
00:47:40,723 --> 00:47:41,230
Wilmington, and I

1642
00:47:41,230 --> 00:47:43,230
m here

1643
00:47:43,590 --> 00:47:45,459
tonight representing the owner

1644
00:47:46,596 --> 00:47:47,396
and applicant. Um, with me this

1645
00:47:47,396 --> 00:47:48,640
evening. Uh, that

1646
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:49,465
s Cameron

1647
00:47:49,465 --> 00:47:51,340
Land. Uh, excuse me. Cameron

1648
00:47:51,340 --> 00:47:53,360
Properties land company. And

1649
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,205
with me here this evening is

1650
00:47:55,205 --> 00:47:57,241
Hill Rodgers with Cameron

1651
00:47:57,241 --> 00:47:59,277
Management. And we appreciate

1652
00:47:59,277 --> 00:48:00,845
the opportunity to present this

1653
00:48:00,845 --> 00:48:02,614
proposal for your consideration

1654
00:48:02,614 --> 00:48:04,883
this evening. We have a few

1655
00:48:04,883 --> 00:48:06,317
slides that, um, I think will

1656
00:48:06,317 --> 00:48:06,852
help explain the request. And

1657
00:48:06,852 --> 00:48:07,419
then we

1658
00:48:07,419 --> 00:48:08,119
ve heard some

1659
00:48:08,119 --> 00:48:08,520
questions, and we

1660
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,220
re certainly

1661
00:48:10,220 --> 00:48:11,423
here to try to answer any

1662
00:48:11,423 --> 00:48:13,823
questions that the Commission

1663
00:48:15,361 --> 00:48:18,298
has. This is a, uh, a

1664
00:48:18,298 --> 00:48:20,600
relatively recent drone shot of

1665
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:21,902
the area. And I put the movie

1666
00:48:21,902 --> 00:48:23,203
theater on there just for

1667
00:48:23,203 --> 00:48:24,304
reference. I think everyone

1668
00:48:24,304 --> 00:48:26,373
generally knows where the movie

1669
00:48:26,373 --> 00:48:28,342
theater is at the point the

1670
00:48:28,342 --> 00:48:30,742
subject property is shown,

1671
00:48:30,811 --> 00:48:32,447
outlined in the dotted yellow

1672
00:48:32,447 --> 00:48:33,382
with the yellow star, and it

1673
00:48:33,382 --> 00:48:35,382
s

1674
00:48:38,554 --> 00:48:38,721
roughly 12 and 12.25 acres. Uh,

1675
00:48:38,721 --> 00:48:40,721
it

1676
00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:43,125
s currently zoned. Oh, and I

1677
00:48:43,125 --> 00:48:43,492
one which I don

1678
00:48:43,492 --> 00:48:44,493
t know that

1679
00:48:44,493 --> 00:48:44,894
that exists anymore, but it

1680
00:48:44,894 --> 00:48:46,894
s

1681
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,801
only one cd, and that is a

1682
00:48:50,801 --> 00:48:51,368
result of the City Council

1683
00:48:51,368 --> 00:48:53,368
s

1684
00:48:54,605 --> 00:48:57,605
approval of the bigger Berkeley

1685
00:48:58,242 --> 00:49:00,642
West conditional rezoning in

1686
00:49:00,812 --> 00:49:01,379
2013. So what you

1687
00:49:01,379 --> 00:49:03,379
re looking at

1688
00:49:03,548 --> 00:49:05,750
here is really about half of

1689
00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:08,150
Berkeley, West. Berkeley West

1690
00:49:09,210 --> 00:49:12,258
was approved, um, as about a

1691
00:49:12,258 --> 00:49:14,258
302 acre multi conditional

1692
00:49:16,596 --> 00:49:17,864
district. Uh, development, um,

1693
00:49:17,864 --> 00:49:19,566
about half of it is on the

1694
00:49:19,566 --> 00:49:20,333
south side of independence, and

1695
00:49:20,333 --> 00:49:21,100
about half of it

1696
00:49:21,100 --> 00:49:21,601
s on the north

1697
00:49:21,601 --> 00:49:22,335
side. What you

1698
00:49:22,335 --> 00:49:24,335
re looking at

1699
00:49:24,872 --> 00:49:28,472
here is the south side of

1700
00:49:28,476 --> 00:49:30,278
independence. And, um, it has

1701
00:49:30,278 --> 00:49:32,678
obviously developed over time

1702
00:49:33,882 --> 00:49:36,882
since 2013, but a lot has

1703
00:49:38,220 --> 00:49:40,220
changed since 2013. Um,

1704
00:49:40,220 --> 00:49:41,791
probably two too long to list,

1705
00:49:41,791 --> 00:49:42,826
but some of the main items

1706
00:49:42,826 --> 00:49:43,960
would be you

1707
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,360
ve got an entirely

1708
00:49:46,830 --> 00:49:47,898
new land development code. Uh,

1709
00:49:47,898 --> 00:49:49,199
when this went through the

1710
00:49:49,199 --> 00:49:50,267
process, when we were going

1711
00:49:50,267 --> 00:49:53,267
through the process, we were

1712
00:49:53,337 --> 00:49:54,738
actually under the old zoning

1713
00:49:54,738 --> 00:49:58,275
code, which I think was chapter

1714
00:49:58,275 --> 00:50:01,875
18 of the city code. And then

1715
00:50:02,281 --> 00:50:05,281
that changed in 2004 ish. I

1716
00:50:07,486 --> 00:50:08,487
think, um, and then we when we

1717
00:50:08,487 --> 00:50:09,989
when we came before City

1718
00:50:09,989 --> 00:50:11,323
Council, we were under what was

1719
00:50:11,323 --> 00:50:14,226
then chapter 19. I think the

1720
00:50:14,226 --> 00:50:15,280
zoning code. And at that time,

1721
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:15,795
um, you also didn

1722
00:50:15,795 --> 00:50:17,631
t have your,

1723
00:50:17,631 --> 00:50:17,831
your comprehensive plan. So

1724
00:50:17,831 --> 00:50:19,831
that

1725
00:50:19,933 --> 00:50:22,136
s a big change that was

1726
00:50:22,136 --> 00:50:22,469
adopted. Um, 2016. It

1727
00:50:22,469 --> 00:50:22,803
s hard to

1728
00:50:22,803 --> 00:50:23,671
believe that

1729
00:50:23,671 --> 00:50:26,710
s been ten years.

1730
00:50:26,273 --> 00:50:28,142
But, um, when this was adopted,

1731
00:50:28,142 --> 00:50:32,342
I think it was the future land

1732
00:50:34,917 --> 00:50:37,286
use plan 22,004 to 2025 was the

1733
00:50:37,286 --> 00:50:38,788
name of the plan. Um, and then,

1734
00:50:38,788 --> 00:50:40,590
of course, just the changes in

1735
00:50:40,590 --> 00:50:42,525
population growth and job

1736
00:50:42,525 --> 00:50:45,295
growth and changes in the

1737
00:50:45,295 --> 00:50:47,931
retail market and office demand

1738
00:50:47,931 --> 00:50:49,232
and everything else since 2013.

1739
00:50:49,232 --> 00:50:49,966
So really what we

1740
00:50:49,966 --> 00:50:51,836
re here for

1741
00:50:51,836 --> 00:50:53,771
is asking for a consideration

1742
00:50:53,771 --> 00:50:55,940
to update these conditions from

1743
00:50:55,940 --> 00:50:57,175
2013 on this. What

1744
00:50:57,175 --> 00:50:59,100
s one of the

1745
00:50:59,100 --> 00:51:00,979
sort of more remaining parts of

1746
00:51:00,979 --> 00:51:03,979
this portion of Berkeley West?

1747
00:51:04,216 --> 00:51:07,786
So looking at the at the

1748
00:51:07,786 --> 00:51:09,255
property itself, um, the

1749
00:51:09,255 --> 00:51:09,455
existing building will remain.

1750
00:51:09,455 --> 00:51:10,323
That

1751
00:51:10,323 --> 00:51:12,459
s the Wilmington Health

1752
00:51:12,459 --> 00:51:13,593
Building. And MISS Hopkins

1753
00:51:13,593 --> 00:51:15,562
showed that in a number of

1754
00:51:15,562 --> 00:51:18,165
photos. Um, this is a little

1755
00:51:18,165 --> 00:51:20,133
bit of an older, um, Google

1756
00:51:20,133 --> 00:51:20,467
Maps photo, but the there

1757
00:51:20,467 --> 00:51:22,302
s a

1758
00:51:22,302 --> 00:51:23,137
new parking area that has since

1759
00:51:23,137 --> 00:51:23,737
been created and that

1760
00:51:23,737 --> 00:51:25,737
s behind

1761
00:51:26,174 --> 00:51:28,574
the Wilmington Health Building.

1762
00:51:29,111 --> 00:51:30,178
And then you can see on the

1763
00:51:30,178 --> 00:51:32,281
upper sort of right hand

1764
00:51:32,281 --> 00:51:35,150
corner, which is not part of

1765
00:51:35,150 --> 00:51:37,286
the rezoning request, there is

1766
00:51:37,286 --> 00:51:38,354
a current office building under

1767
00:51:38,354 --> 00:51:39,388
construction. If you were to go

1768
00:51:39,388 --> 00:51:39,855
out there today, you would see

1769
00:51:39,855 --> 00:51:40,622
that. And it

1770
00:51:40,622 --> 00:51:41,290
s, um, it

1771
00:51:41,290 --> 00:51:43,290
s well

1772
00:51:43,794 --> 00:51:46,630
underway. Um, the property

1773
00:51:46,630 --> 00:51:49,630
that, um, is undeveloped is

1774
00:51:49,660 --> 00:51:50,340
roughly seven and a half acres,

1775
00:51:50,340 --> 00:51:52,403
just a little bit under seven

1776
00:51:52,403 --> 00:51:53,638
and a half acres. And we would

1777
00:51:53,638 --> 00:51:55,339
like the opportunity to have

1778
00:51:55,339 --> 00:51:57,739
some more flexibility with

1779
00:51:58,610 --> 00:52:00,110
that. Um, when you look at some

1780
00:52:00,110 --> 00:52:01,914
of the slides, MISS Hopkins

1781
00:52:01,914 --> 00:52:03,820
showed. Look, I

1782
00:52:03,820 --> 00:52:05,820
m thinking back

1783
00:52:05,451 --> 00:52:06,752
to 2013 and we had a number of

1784
00:52:06,752 --> 00:52:08,254
neighborhood meetings and we

1785
00:52:08,254 --> 00:52:10,823
had a lot of discussions about

1786
00:52:10,823 --> 00:52:10,990
the overall development. But

1787
00:52:10,990 --> 00:52:12,258
it

1788
00:52:12,258 --> 00:52:13,660
s really interesting to see,

1789
00:52:13,660 --> 00:52:15,295
like back in 2013, the

1790
00:52:15,295 --> 00:52:17,130
discussion about density. And

1791
00:52:17,130 --> 00:52:19,266
when you fast forward ahead 13

1792
00:52:19,266 --> 00:52:20,601
years and all the changes, like

1793
00:52:20,601 --> 00:52:21,502
if you could identify a place

1794
00:52:21,502 --> 00:52:21,869
in Wilmington where you

1795
00:52:21,869 --> 00:52:23,404
d want

1796
00:52:23,404 --> 00:52:24,772
more density with all the

1797
00:52:24,772 --> 00:52:26,841
infrastructure. And as you

1798
00:52:26,841 --> 00:52:29,177
mentioned, MR. CHAIRMAN, the a

1799
00:52:29,177 --> 00:52:30,412
level service of the roads, all

1800
00:52:30,412 --> 00:52:32,147
the different intersections

1801
00:52:32,147 --> 00:52:33,582
that have been improved, I

1802
00:52:33,582 --> 00:52:34,683
could go through and, you know,

1803
00:52:34,683 --> 00:52:35,384
show you things here even on

1804
00:52:35,384 --> 00:52:36,752
this that weren

1805
00:52:36,752 --> 00:52:38,822
t in place in

1806
00:52:38,822 --> 00:52:40,323
2013. But if you were wanting

1807
00:52:40,323 --> 00:52:42,158
to increase density in

1808
00:52:42,158 --> 00:52:43,126
Wilmington, this is exactly the

1809
00:52:43,126 --> 00:52:43,426
place where you would want to

1810
00:52:43,426 --> 00:52:44,494
do it. It

1811
00:52:44,494 --> 00:52:45,950
s close to grocery

1812
00:52:45,950 --> 00:52:46,129
stores, it

1813
00:52:46,129 --> 00:52:48,529
s close to public

1814
00:52:48,966 --> 00:52:51,340
parks. It has probably the best

1815
00:52:51,340 --> 00:52:52,350
access of any large site and

1816
00:52:52,350 --> 00:52:53,938
all of Wilmington, with

1817
00:52:53,938 --> 00:52:55,807
Independence Boulevard, 17th

1818
00:52:55,807 --> 00:52:57,976
Street, Carolina Beach Road,

1819
00:52:57,976 --> 00:52:59,144
um, most of this is signalized.

1820
00:52:59,144 --> 00:53:02,144
Signalized, and none of that

1821
00:53:02,648 --> 00:53:05,648
was really there in 2013. Um,

1822
00:53:05,884 --> 00:53:07,553
but, um, when the when the

1823
00:53:07,553 --> 00:53:10,523
approval when it was approved

1824
00:53:10,523 --> 00:53:12,292
in 2013, um, there was a lot

1825
00:53:12,292 --> 00:53:14,261
more zoning space. There was a

1826
00:53:14,261 --> 00:53:17,798
lot more arb space, a lot more

1827
00:53:17,798 --> 00:53:18,132
commercial space. And it

1828
00:53:18,132 --> 00:53:19,400
s

1829
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,368
really pretty interesting to

1830
00:53:21,368 --> 00:53:24,968
see the density that was put

1831
00:53:28,544 --> 00:53:30,246
upon what equates to. 223 acres

1832
00:53:30,246 --> 00:53:33,249
of combined. Oh, and I won and

1833
00:53:33,249 --> 00:53:34,917
rb was limited to 116 units,

1834
00:53:34,917 --> 00:53:38,488
which is about one unit for

1835
00:53:38,488 --> 00:53:38,721
every two acres. And really,

1836
00:53:38,721 --> 00:53:39,789
what we

1837
00:53:39,789 --> 00:53:42,189
re asking for tonight

1838
00:53:42,625 --> 00:53:44,127
is can, you know, just to sort

1839
00:53:44,127 --> 00:53:45,595
of lift that density cap on

1840
00:53:45,595 --> 00:53:46,931
this remaining part and allow

1841
00:53:46,931 --> 00:53:49,100
the opportunity to have it

1842
00:53:49,100 --> 00:53:52,100
developed just like any other

1843
00:53:54,500 --> 00:53:56,107
only site? And, um, again, the

1844
00:53:56,107 --> 00:53:58,507
the residential certainly helps

1845
00:53:59,177 --> 00:54:01,346
the commercial component. Um,

1846
00:54:01,346 --> 00:54:03,148
the roadways are more than

1847
00:54:03,148 --> 00:54:04,751
adequate for allowing some more

1848
00:54:04,751 --> 00:54:07,120
residential on that seven and a

1849
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:07,453
half, um, acres, but there

1850
00:54:07,453 --> 00:54:09,453
s no

1851
00:54:09,656 --> 00:54:10,230
definite plan right now. So,

1852
00:54:10,230 --> 00:54:11,570
um, it

1853
00:54:11,570 --> 00:54:12,192
s really just

1854
00:54:12,192 --> 00:54:13,593
opportunities as they sort of

1855
00:54:13,593 --> 00:54:15,395
plan out one of these last

1856
00:54:15,395 --> 00:54:16,863
parts of vacant property within

1857
00:54:16,863 --> 00:54:18,298
the within the Berkeley West

1858
00:54:18,298 --> 00:54:19,333
development to have an

1859
00:54:19,333 --> 00:54:20,667
opportunity to put some more

1860
00:54:20,667 --> 00:54:21,269
residential. So that

1861
00:54:21,269 --> 00:54:23,269
s kind of

1862
00:54:23,605 --> 00:54:24,739
how we got here today. And um,

1863
00:54:24,739 --> 00:54:26,174
I would like to say we

1864
00:54:26,174 --> 00:54:26,374
appreciate the planning

1865
00:54:26,374 --> 00:54:28,374
staff

1866
00:54:28,543 --> 00:54:28,810
s, um, discussions with

1867
00:54:28,810 --> 00:54:29,878
us. They

1868
00:54:29,878 --> 00:54:31,880
ve been very available

1869
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:33,182
and helpful with us. And, um,

1870
00:54:33,182 --> 00:54:34,249
sort of walking through

1871
00:54:34,249 --> 00:54:35,217
different ways to approach

1872
00:54:35,217 --> 00:54:35,417
this. So I do want to say

1873
00:54:35,417 --> 00:54:36,352
staff

1874
00:54:36,352 --> 00:54:38,755
s been great to work with

1875
00:54:38,755 --> 00:54:39,356
on this. And, um, I

1876
00:54:39,356 --> 00:54:40,791
ve got a

1877
00:54:40,791 --> 00:54:41,658
few more slides that might help

1878
00:54:41,658 --> 00:54:43,293
elaborate on some of the

1879
00:54:43,293 --> 00:54:43,460
questions. Part of the reason

1880
00:54:43,460 --> 00:54:44,194
you

1881
00:54:44,194 --> 00:54:46,730
ll see the shape of the

1882
00:54:46,730 --> 00:54:46,931
property is because the track

1883
00:54:46,931 --> 00:54:48,931
that

1884
00:54:49,233 --> 00:54:51,202
s in the upper right hand

1885
00:54:51,202 --> 00:54:51,736
corner. Um, uh, Cameron

1886
00:54:51,736 --> 00:54:52,236
Properties doesn

1887
00:54:52,236 --> 00:54:52,570
t own that

1888
00:54:52,570 --> 00:54:53,300
anymore. That

1889
00:54:53,300 --> 00:54:54,272
s owned by

1890
00:54:54,272 --> 00:54:56,275
Wilmington Health that was

1891
00:54:56,275 --> 00:54:59,275
recently sold. And I think

1892
00:54:59,311 --> 00:55:01,480
APRIL of this year. And then,

1893
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:04,350
um, MISS Hopkins touched on

1894
00:55:04,350 --> 00:55:05,117
the, uh, consistency with the

1895
00:55:05,117 --> 00:55:05,718
plans, but there

1896
00:55:05,718 --> 00:55:06,219
s not many

1897
00:55:06,219 --> 00:55:06,719
properties you

1898
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:08,321
re going to see

1899
00:55:08,321 --> 00:55:10,823
in Wilmington that are in a, in

1900
00:55:10,823 --> 00:55:12,892
a higher intensity area of

1901
00:55:12,892 --> 00:55:14,428
opportunity, a transit oriented

1902
00:55:14,428 --> 00:55:16,731
mixed use center, a high

1903
00:55:16,731 --> 00:55:18,399
capacity transit route, and has

1904
00:55:18,399 --> 00:55:20,680
this much access to existing

1905
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:22,468
commercial goods and services.

1906
00:55:23,137 --> 00:55:25,407
You can walk to all sorts of

1907
00:55:25,407 --> 00:55:25,707
things within the area you

1908
00:55:25,707 --> 00:55:26,908
re

1909
00:55:26,908 --> 00:55:28,209
close to signalized

1910
00:55:28,209 --> 00:55:30,209
intersections, grocery stores,

1911
00:55:30,913 --> 00:55:32,140
and as I said, um, it is really

1912
00:55:32,140 --> 00:55:34,284
where you would want to see

1913
00:55:34,284 --> 00:55:35,618
some more density. Um, if we if

1914
00:55:35,618 --> 00:55:35,785
you can put it there and it

1915
00:55:35,785 --> 00:55:37,354
s

1916
00:55:37,354 --> 00:55:38,822
going to be very high quality,

1917
00:55:38,822 --> 00:55:40,790
just like the entire Berkeley

1918
00:55:40,790 --> 00:55:41,758
West is. So I think that

1919
00:55:41,758 --> 00:55:43,460
s the

1920
00:55:43,460 --> 00:55:45,128
conclusion. Um, staff

1921
00:55:45,128 --> 00:55:45,395
recommends approval. I

1922
00:55:45,395 --> 00:55:46,964
m sure

1923
00:55:46,964 --> 00:55:47,164
you all have questions, but

1924
00:55:47,164 --> 00:55:49,164
that

1925
00:55:49,167 --> 00:55:50,769
s sort of the, the the

1926
00:55:50,769 --> 00:55:52,204
long and the short of it.

1927
00:55:52,204 --> 00:55:53,138
Thank you very much,

1928
00:55:53,138 --> 00:55:53,305
Commissioner coffer. We

1929
00:55:53,305 --> 00:55:54,673
ll

1930
00:55:54,673 --> 00:55:56,673
start with you.

1931
00:55:56,908 --> 00:55:58,477
Thank you, MR. Chair. Um, I

1932
00:55:58,477 --> 00:55:59,545
guess, MISTER Nichols, the

1933
00:55:59,545 --> 00:56:02,545
first question that just pops

1934
00:56:04,830 --> 00:56:06,253
off the page is why not do the.

1935
00:56:06,253 --> 00:56:08,540
O the workforce piece that

1936
00:56:08,540 --> 00:56:09,890
eliminates all the residential

1937
00:56:09,890 --> 00:56:10,958
barriers?

1938
00:56:10,958 --> 00:56:12,958
Uh, uh, it

1939
00:56:13,270 --> 00:56:13,193
s a great point. We

1940
00:56:13,193 --> 00:56:15,193
don

1941
00:56:16,530 --> 00:56:18,132
t have a plan, but what the

1942
00:56:18,132 --> 00:56:20,100
residential barrier is

1943
00:56:20,100 --> 00:56:21,769
resulting from the 2013

1944
00:56:21,769 --> 00:56:24,769
condition. So when the city

1945
00:56:24,907 --> 00:56:27,307
council approved this in 2013,

1946
00:56:27,676 --> 00:56:30,676
they limited the entire density

1947
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:40,520
of the 302 acres to 1375 units,

1948
00:56:40,558 --> 00:56:42,293
1259 of those units were the

1949
00:56:42,293 --> 00:56:44,693
maximum. In the multifamily

1950
00:56:46,300 --> 00:56:49,630
zone. So the only units allowed

1951
00:56:50,502 --> 00:56:52,700
for again over 200 and 223

1952
00:56:52,700 --> 00:56:56,270
acres to be exact. Of all the

1953
00:56:56,308 --> 00:56:58,144
rb and all, the only one was

1954
00:56:58,144 --> 00:56:59,450
116 units. I

1955
00:56:59,450 --> 00:57:01,247
m not sure why

1956
00:57:01,247 --> 00:57:02,215
that was. I think at the time

1957
00:57:02,215 --> 00:57:03,850
there was just different

1958
00:57:03,850 --> 00:57:05,385
demands for different housing

1959
00:57:05,385 --> 00:57:06,586
types. I think if you were

1960
00:57:06,586 --> 00:57:09,550
going through this today, it

1961
00:57:09,550 --> 00:57:10,123
would be vastly different. I

1962
00:57:10,123 --> 00:57:11,758
would say there would be really

1963
00:57:11,758 --> 00:57:14,861
no reason to have a cap on the

1964
00:57:14,861 --> 00:57:15,950
density. The code has caps, and

1965
00:57:15,950 --> 00:57:15,997
all we

1966
00:57:15,997 --> 00:57:18,233
re really asking for

1967
00:57:18,233 --> 00:57:19,467
here is just to have this, uh,

1968
00:57:19,467 --> 00:57:20,568
what essentially amounts to

1969
00:57:20,568 --> 00:57:21,837
seven and a half acres. Just

1970
00:57:21,837 --> 00:57:22,671
have it treated like every

1971
00:57:22,671 --> 00:57:23,905
other owner

1972
00:57:23,905 --> 00:57:26,305
s owned property in

1973
00:57:26,541 --> 00:57:29,445
the city. As far as density.

1974
00:57:29,445 --> 00:57:31,213
Um, so the density cap exists

1975
00:57:31,213 --> 00:57:33,160
not because of the code. It

1976
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:34,500
exists because of the 2013

1977
00:57:34,500 --> 00:57:34,584
approval. And that

1978
00:57:34,584 --> 00:57:34,751
s really why

1979
00:57:34,751 --> 00:57:35,180
we

1980
00:57:35,180 --> 00:57:36,860
re here. We

1981
00:57:36,860 --> 00:57:37,487
re asking for

1982
00:57:37,487 --> 00:57:38,489
consideration. Can can we

1983
00:57:38,489 --> 00:57:41,658
please go back and look at

1984
00:57:41,658 --> 00:57:42,159
those 2013 conditions? Because

1985
00:57:42,159 --> 00:57:43,930
frankly, they

1986
00:57:43,930 --> 00:57:45,930
re really

1987
00:57:45,362 --> 00:57:45,629
outdated at this point. Some of

1988
00:57:45,629 --> 00:57:47,398
them don

1989
00:57:47,398 --> 00:57:48,320
t even apply anymore.

1990
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:48,399
Um,

1991
00:57:48,399 --> 00:57:48,599
And.

1992
00:57:48,599 --> 00:57:50,434
There

1993
00:57:50,434 --> 00:57:52,137
s been such a dramatic

1994
00:57:52,137 --> 00:57:53,806
shift in population growth, job

1995
00:57:53,806 --> 00:57:55,574
growth, demands for different

1996
00:57:55,574 --> 00:57:56,475
types of housing.

1997
00:57:56,475 --> 00:57:57,776
But right now we

1998
00:57:57,776 --> 00:57:59,776
re limited to

1999
00:58:01,981 --> 00:58:04,317
this cap on density in the

2000
00:58:04,317 --> 00:58:04,750
commercial areas out there. Um,

2001
00:58:04,750 --> 00:58:05,451
so I don

2002
00:58:05,451 --> 00:58:07,220
t know if that answers

2003
00:58:07,220 --> 00:58:08,355
the question, but. And not to

2004
00:58:08,355 --> 00:58:10,491
sound like a broken record, but

2005
00:58:10,491 --> 00:58:13,261
I would I would say that again,

2006
00:58:13,261 --> 00:58:15,620
um, we just want the

2007
00:58:15,620 --> 00:58:15,963
opportunity to put the density

2008
00:58:15,963 --> 00:58:16,197
that the code allows. We

2009
00:58:16,197 --> 00:58:18,197
re not

2010
00:58:18,432 --> 00:58:19,734
asking for anything above and

2011
00:58:19,734 --> 00:58:21,503
beyond what anybody else could

2012
00:58:21,503 --> 00:58:22,237
do on any property.

2013
00:58:22,237 --> 00:58:24,237
And I.

2014
00:58:24,439 --> 00:58:25,708
Guess a follow up question MR.

2015
00:58:25,708 --> 00:58:26,943
Nichols would be then, is this,

2016
00:58:26,943 --> 00:58:31,143
I mean, because it seems like a

2017
00:58:31,614 --> 00:58:34,140
really specific number of 208,

2018
00:58:34,851 --> 00:58:37,320
um, is that is that meeting the

2019
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:38,889
code today? Does that bring.

2020
00:58:38,889 --> 00:58:40,991
I think that was a number that

2021
00:58:40,991 --> 00:58:41,425
staff calculated. That wasn

2022
00:58:41,425 --> 00:58:42,493
t a

2023
00:58:42,493 --> 00:58:42,693
number that we did. Again,

2024
00:58:42,693 --> 00:58:44,395
there

2025
00:58:44,395 --> 00:58:44,762
s no plan there. It

2026
00:58:44,762 --> 00:58:46,264
s

2027
00:58:46,264 --> 00:58:48,664
possible that no residential

2028
00:58:48,667 --> 00:58:49,901
would go there. Um, but we

2029
00:58:49,901 --> 00:58:51,303
would like the opportunity to

2030
00:58:51,303 --> 00:58:52,637
put residential there. I think

2031
00:58:52,637 --> 00:58:53,572
it makes perfect sense to add

2032
00:58:53,572 --> 00:58:54,740
more residential. It

2033
00:58:54,740 --> 00:58:56,642
s needed.

2034
00:58:56,642 --> 00:58:58,610
We need it in the city. We need

2035
00:58:58,610 --> 00:59:00,914
it in locations exactly like

2036
00:59:00,914 --> 00:59:03,160
Berkeley West. Um, but right

2037
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:04,117
now, um, I don

2038
00:59:04,117 --> 00:59:05,485
t know what

2039
00:59:05,485 --> 00:59:05,652
density is left, but there

2040
00:59:05,652 --> 00:59:07,254
s

2041
00:59:07,254 --> 00:59:07,455
not much left out there. And

2042
00:59:07,455 --> 00:59:08,689
there

2043
00:59:08,689 --> 00:59:11,890
s still property to

2044
00:59:11,125 --> 00:59:11,325
develop. In hindsight, I think

2045
00:59:11,325 --> 00:59:13,193
there

2046
00:59:13,193 --> 00:59:15,129
s probably would have

2047
00:59:15,129 --> 00:59:16,630
been better to have more

2048
00:59:16,630 --> 00:59:18,267
density in the commercial

2049
00:59:18,267 --> 00:59:18,567
sections. And I think that i

2050
00:59:18,567 --> 00:59:19,267
think that

2051
00:59:19,267 --> 00:59:20,669
s definitely what

2052
00:59:20,669 --> 00:59:21,637
you would see today. If you

2053
00:59:21,637 --> 00:59:21,770
were developing it today, you

2054
00:59:21,770 --> 00:59:23,605
d

2055
00:59:23,605 --> 00:59:25,574
have, I think, significantly

2056
00:59:25,574 --> 00:59:27,309
more residential within the o.

2057
00:59:27,309 --> 00:59:27,810
And I and the rb zones out

2058
00:59:27,810 --> 00:59:29,810
there.

2059
00:59:30,413 --> 00:59:31,747
And I guess the, the and this

2060
00:59:31,747 --> 00:59:33,115
MAY just be a staff question

2061
00:59:33,115 --> 00:59:35,519
would be because the numbers

2062
00:59:35,519 --> 00:59:35,786
are so specific 208. Would that

2063
00:59:35,786 --> 00:59:37,786
be what

2064
00:59:38,220 --> 00:59:40,422
s allowed today under

2065
00:59:40,758 --> 00:59:43,758
the non 2013 code? The updated

2066
00:59:45,463 --> 00:59:48,299
2021 ldc and comp plan um with

2067
00:59:48,299 --> 00:59:50,869
208 b you know suitable to this

2068
00:59:50,869 --> 00:59:51,903
particular site. It just seems

2069
00:59:51,903 --> 00:59:52,637
you know again it just seems

2070
00:59:52,637 --> 00:59:52,972
specific. And then it

2071
00:59:52,972 --> 00:59:54,473
s just

2072
00:59:54,473 --> 00:59:56,108
curious that this

2073
00:59:56,108 --> 00:59:57,677
recommendation that the whole

2074
00:59:57,677 --> 00:59:59,780
all residential density for the

2075
00:59:59,780 --> 01:00:00,914
whole project, it sounds like,

2076
01:00:00,914 --> 01:00:01,447
would be eliminated, you

2077
01:00:01,447 --> 01:00:02,949
d have

2078
01:00:02,949 --> 01:00:04,150
a no ceiling, as many

2079
01:00:04,150 --> 01:00:07,120
residential units as you want.

2080
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:08,588
If you did the 10%. Um, for the

2081
01:00:08,588 --> 01:00:09,289
15 years designated as

2082
01:00:09,289 --> 01:00:09,756
workforce. So there

2083
01:00:09,756 --> 01:00:11,693
s two

2084
01:00:11,693 --> 01:00:13,328
things that are just kind of

2085
01:00:13,328 --> 01:00:14,462
juxtaposing, at least in my

2086
01:00:14,462 --> 01:00:15,497
bullets here. So but thank you

2087
01:00:15,497 --> 01:00:16,164
for your responses. I

2088
01:00:16,164 --> 01:00:16,431
appreciate that.

2089
01:00:16,431 --> 01:00:17,832
Yes.

2090
01:00:17,832 --> 01:00:19,832
Sir.

2091
01:00:19,968 --> 01:00:21,436
MR. Kupfer,

2092
01:00:21,436 --> 01:00:23,906
Uh, in response to your

2093
01:00:23,906 --> 01:00:26,275
questions, the 208 units is

2094
01:00:26,275 --> 01:00:27,576
assuming that the site for

2095
01:00:27,576 --> 01:00:29,379
which these conditions are

2096
01:00:29,379 --> 01:00:30,747
being applied is built out at

2097
01:00:30,747 --> 01:00:31,810
17 units per acre. So that

2098
01:00:31,810 --> 01:00:32,582
s

2099
01:00:32,582 --> 01:00:34,584
where staff did that to

2100
01:00:34,584 --> 01:00:35,519
estimate, uh, associated

2101
01:00:35,519 --> 01:00:37,888
traffic with that. So that

2102
01:00:37,888 --> 01:00:39,790
assumes 17 units per acre. When

2103
01:00:39,790 --> 01:00:41,250
we say removing the residential

2104
01:00:41,250 --> 01:00:41,959
cap it it

2105
01:00:41,959 --> 01:00:42,226
s it means they

2106
01:00:42,226 --> 01:00:44,226
re no

2107
01:00:44,261 --> 01:00:46,465
longer going to be restricted

2108
01:00:46,465 --> 01:00:47,833
to that 44 units, which is in

2109
01:00:47,833 --> 01:00:49,401
the current conditions, which

2110
01:00:49,401 --> 01:00:50,669
is all that is left for

2111
01:00:50,669 --> 01:00:52,137
residential development in the

2112
01:00:52,137 --> 01:00:54,306
o and I and rb portions of

2113
01:00:54,306 --> 01:00:55,441
Berkeley West. So and it would

2114
01:00:55,441 --> 01:00:57,676
not apply to the entire

2115
01:00:57,676 --> 01:00:59,845
Berkeley property project just

2116
01:00:59,845 --> 01:01:01,470
to the site. Uh, that is shown

2117
01:01:01,470 --> 01:01:03,183
in your packet and that the

2118
01:01:03,183 --> 01:01:05,583
applicant outlined, as Hayley

2119
01:01:05,719 --> 01:01:07,388
mentioned, if, if when they

2120
01:01:07,388 --> 01:01:10,491
develop this site, they opt to

2121
01:01:10,491 --> 01:01:12,727
do 10% of workforce housing for

2122
01:01:12,727 --> 01:01:14,729
15 years. That does allow them

2123
01:01:14,729 --> 01:01:16,697
to go above 17 units per acre.

2124
01:01:16,697 --> 01:01:18,299
Again, only on this site. Uh,

2125
01:01:18,299 --> 01:01:20,436
and then there is no specific

2126
01:01:20,436 --> 01:01:21,937
density cap.

2127
01:01:21,937 --> 01:01:23,106
Thank you, MR. Painter. That

2128
01:01:23,106 --> 01:01:23,506
makes sense. So you

2129
01:01:23,506 --> 01:01:25,506
re doing

2130
01:01:25,908 --> 01:01:27,744
the calculations based on this

2131
01:01:27,744 --> 01:01:30,680
site and per year calculations,

2132
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:32,649
208 is the maximum allowed. But

2133
01:01:32,649 --> 01:01:33,783
if the applicant decided to on

2134
01:01:33,783 --> 01:01:35,285
this site alone, not all the

2135
01:01:35,285 --> 01:01:36,486
Berkeley do the workforce

2136
01:01:36,486 --> 01:01:37,989
piece, then there would be no

2137
01:01:37,989 --> 01:01:38,189
cap. Correct. Okay. Thank you.

2138
01:01:38,189 --> 01:01:40,189
That

2139
01:01:40,591 --> 01:01:44,191
s what I was looking for.

2140
01:01:45,263 --> 01:01:47,663
Got it. Commissioner Collier.

2141
01:01:50,302 --> 01:01:52,302
Commissioner Adams.

2142
01:01:52,471 --> 01:01:55,700
When was the last time that we

2143
01:01:55,700 --> 01:01:57,210
saw the site and looked at it?

2144
01:01:57,210 --> 01:01:58,712
Amending the conditional use

2145
01:01:58,712 --> 01:01:59,412
district, or the conditional

2146
01:01:59,412 --> 01:02:01,412
uses?

2147
01:02:02,282 --> 01:02:05,418
It was 2023. I have a slide

2148
01:02:05,418 --> 01:02:07,818
showing that, um, here.

2149
01:02:09,123 --> 01:02:10,291
So if what

2150
01:02:10,291 --> 01:02:12,691
s so different in

2151
01:02:13,462 --> 01:02:15,364
your mind about 20, 2013, in

2152
01:02:15,364 --> 01:02:17,566
this original master plan, when

2153
01:02:17,566 --> 01:02:19,501
this came before us three ish

2154
01:02:19,501 --> 01:02:19,835
years ago, why weren

2155
01:02:19,835 --> 01:02:21,503
t we

2156
01:02:21,503 --> 01:02:23,903
talking about this density

2157
01:02:25,941 --> 01:02:26,475
issue then? And we are now.

2158
01:02:26,475 --> 01:02:27,910
Um, that

2159
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:28,770
s a good question. I

2160
01:02:28,770 --> 01:02:28,411
don

2161
01:02:28,411 --> 01:02:29,278
t I don

2162
01:02:29,278 --> 01:02:30,881
t really remember

2163
01:02:30,881 --> 01:02:32,249
exactly how it came up. I know

2164
01:02:32,249 --> 01:02:33,684
we were looking at this site

2165
01:02:33,684 --> 01:02:36,354
and this was a this was an

2166
01:02:36,354 --> 01:02:39,354
actual rezoning. So this was

2167
01:02:39,757 --> 01:02:41,258
oh, and I and md 17 getting

2168
01:02:41,258 --> 01:02:42,793
rezoned to rb because we

2169
01:02:42,793 --> 01:02:44,996
thought that was a better fit

2170
01:02:44,996 --> 01:02:46,965
for the overall development

2171
01:02:46,965 --> 01:02:48,667
with potential commercial use,

2172
01:02:48,667 --> 01:02:51,670
uses up near Independence

2173
01:02:51,237 --> 01:02:52,400
Boulevard. So the difference

2174
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:52,471
here is we

2175
01:02:52,471 --> 01:02:52,772
re really we

2176
01:02:52,772 --> 01:02:54,307
re not

2177
01:02:54,307 --> 01:02:56,642
asking for any change in the

2178
01:02:56,642 --> 01:02:57,577
underlying district. We

2179
01:02:57,577 --> 01:02:59,577
re oh,

2180
01:03:00,580 --> 01:03:01,114
and one excuse me. Oh, and I

2181
01:03:01,114 --> 01:03:03,160
now we

2182
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:03,182
re asking for oh and I,

2183
01:03:03,182 --> 01:03:04,551
we

2184
01:03:04,551 --> 01:03:05,353
re just asking for updated

2185
01:03:05,353 --> 01:03:06,287
conditions. So it

2186
01:03:06,287 --> 01:03:07,388
s the same

2187
01:03:07,388 --> 01:03:09,388
zone..

2188
01:03:10,625 --> 01:03:12,260
Okay. Um, I did have a question

2189
01:03:12,260 --> 01:03:13,762
about this. The number of units

2190
01:03:13,762 --> 01:03:17,650
with the overlays. So thank you

2191
01:03:17,650 --> 01:03:17,232
for that. Um, when the, um,

2192
01:03:17,232 --> 01:03:18,633
it

2193
01:03:18,633 --> 01:03:20,235
s unusual for us to see

2194
01:03:20,235 --> 01:03:22,235
conditional requests without

2195
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,176
site plans. Um, and, you know,

2196
01:03:26,176 --> 01:03:27,978
you talk a lot about, um,

2197
01:03:27,978 --> 01:03:31,147
numbers of units, and you talk

2198
01:03:31,147 --> 01:03:34,584
a lot about the ability to

2199
01:03:34,584 --> 01:03:36,954
integrate with circulation. Um,

2200
01:03:36,954 --> 01:03:38,255
both pedestrian as well as

2201
01:03:38,255 --> 01:03:40,255
vehicular, but it

2202
01:03:40,892 --> 01:03:42,327
s I mean,

2203
01:03:42,327 --> 01:03:43,495
until you sort of see how that

2204
01:03:43,495 --> 01:03:46,298
actually works, how are we

2205
01:03:46,298 --> 01:03:49,298
supposed to determine that, you

2206
01:03:51,337 --> 01:03:53,337
know, 208 441, whatever number

2207
01:03:53,939 --> 01:03:55,808
of units that you could do is

2208
01:03:55,808 --> 01:03:57,376
being done in a smart way from

2209
01:03:57,376 --> 01:03:58,478
a design standpoint?

2210
01:03:58,478 --> 01:04:00,800
Well, I think all you have to

2211
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:00,948
do is look out at what

2212
01:04:00,948 --> 01:04:02,948
s there.

2213
01:04:03,184 --> 01:04:05,584
This the infrastructure is

2214
01:04:07,488 --> 01:04:09,991
there. Uh, the Stonecrop Drive,

2215
01:04:09,991 --> 01:04:12,193
Chippenham, Dusty Miller Lane,

2216
01:04:12,193 --> 01:04:12,660
all of that is in place. We

2217
01:04:12,660 --> 01:04:13,227
ve

2218
01:04:13,227 --> 01:04:14,295
got I

2219
01:04:14,295 --> 01:04:15,998
m looking here at two

2220
01:04:15,998 --> 01:04:16,499
traffic circles. I

2221
01:04:16,499 --> 01:04:18,499
m looking

2222
01:04:21,904 --> 01:04:25,508
at, uh, two. At least two major

2223
01:04:25,508 --> 01:04:27,677
full, uh, full movement

2224
01:04:27,677 --> 01:04:30,770
intersections that my client

2225
01:04:31,247 --> 01:04:34,247
installed at their cost. Um,

2226
01:04:35,219 --> 01:04:37,655
here you can see how it would,

2227
01:04:37,655 --> 01:04:38,356
um, I guess I can

2228
01:04:38,356 --> 01:04:39,491
t think of

2229
01:04:39,491 --> 01:04:41,693
the term, but it would just be

2230
01:04:41,693 --> 01:04:44,950
how it fits within the cohesive

2231
01:04:44,950 --> 01:04:45,864
development of Berkeley West.

2232
01:04:45,864 --> 01:04:50,640
And my client has done a great

2233
01:04:50,336 --> 01:04:50,536
job with Berkeley West. Um, and

2234
01:04:50,536 --> 01:04:51,738
there

2235
01:04:51,738 --> 01:04:52,872
s really no reason to

2236
01:04:52,872 --> 01:04:55,142
think they would come to this

2237
01:04:55,142 --> 01:04:57,577
last seven and a half acres and

2238
01:04:57,577 --> 01:04:57,978
make a mess of it. The reason

2239
01:04:57,978 --> 01:04:59,978
why we don

2240
01:05:00,781 --> 01:05:03,181
t have a, um,

2241
01:05:03,417 --> 01:05:04,952
specific site plan is because

2242
01:05:04,952 --> 01:05:07,254
when this was developed under

2243
01:05:07,254 --> 01:05:09,524
the future land use plan, it

2244
01:05:09,524 --> 01:05:11,860
was designated a certain higher

2245
01:05:11,860 --> 01:05:13,610
intensity area of opportunity.

2246
01:05:13,610 --> 01:05:14,563
And there was a specific

2247
01:05:14,563 --> 01:05:15,998
provision in your code at the

2248
01:05:15,998 --> 01:05:18,133
time that allowed us to

2249
01:05:18,133 --> 01:05:20,636
essentially do a bubble plan.

2250
01:05:20,636 --> 01:05:23,636
Uh, that bubble plan is

2251
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:25,242
essentially shown here. That

2252
01:05:25,242 --> 01:05:27,242
s

2253
01:05:28,110 --> 01:05:30,314
what was approved in 2013. All

2254
01:05:30,314 --> 01:05:33,184
per the code. So you can see on

2255
01:05:33,184 --> 01:05:35,353
there the oh and I is the light

2256
01:05:35,353 --> 01:05:37,521
blue. The rv is the darker

2257
01:05:37,521 --> 01:05:39,557
blue. And you can see back in

2258
01:05:39,557 --> 01:05:40,758
2013, I mean the thought was

2259
01:05:40,758 --> 01:05:44,358
this was going to be mostly

2260
01:05:44,363 --> 01:05:45,931
commercial. It was. But but

2261
01:05:45,931 --> 01:05:48,367
again it was a different time.

2262
01:05:48,367 --> 01:05:48,668
You know, look what look what

2263
01:05:48,668 --> 01:05:50,136
s

2264
01:05:50,136 --> 01:05:51,904
happened with retail and office

2265
01:05:51,904 --> 01:05:52,105
space since 2013. Look, look

2266
01:05:52,105 --> 01:05:53,673
what

2267
01:05:53,673 --> 01:05:56,673
s happened with it since

2268
01:05:57,277 --> 01:05:57,477
the pandemic. Um, and look

2269
01:05:57,477 --> 01:05:58,110
what

2270
01:05:58,110 --> 01:05:58,311
s happened with

2271
01:05:58,311 --> 01:06:00,311
Wilmington

2272
01:06:00,381 --> 01:06:02,750
s housing demand and

2273
01:06:02,750 --> 01:06:06,350
job growth. So it makes perfect

2274
01:06:07,210 --> 01:06:08,656
sense to say with the cdm,

2275
01:06:08,656 --> 01:06:10,258
opportunities to try to put

2276
01:06:10,258 --> 01:06:12,658
more housing in those

2277
01:06:12,694 --> 01:06:14,429
commercial areas. But again, it

2278
01:06:14,429 --> 01:06:14,863
was a the reason why we

2279
01:06:14,863 --> 01:06:16,863
re here

2280
01:06:17,867 --> 01:06:20,370
is because that was limited to

2281
01:06:20,370 --> 01:06:20,503
116 units on everything you

2282
01:06:20,503 --> 01:06:22,503
re

2283
01:06:22,539 --> 01:06:23,606
seeing there in blue. And I

2284
01:06:23,606 --> 01:06:23,940
would respectfully say that

2285
01:06:23,940 --> 01:06:25,940
s

2286
01:06:27,444 --> 01:06:27,644
an outdated condition. And we

2287
01:06:27,644 --> 01:06:28,478
that

2288
01:06:28,478 --> 01:06:29,179
s and we hope you see it

2289
01:06:29,179 --> 01:06:29,446
that way too, that we

2290
01:06:29,446 --> 01:06:31,446
re just

2291
01:06:32,150 --> 01:06:32,716
trying to get more units there.

2292
01:06:32,716 --> 01:06:33,217
But again, I

2293
01:06:33,217 --> 01:06:33,383
ll stress we

2294
01:06:33,383 --> 01:06:35,383
re

2295
01:06:35,787 --> 01:06:35,954
not asking for any extra units.

2296
01:06:35,954 --> 01:06:37,656
We

2297
01:06:37,656 --> 01:06:38,824
re simply asking, can we

2298
01:06:38,824 --> 01:06:41,224
please have this property

2299
01:06:41,226 --> 01:06:43,996
treated like any other? Oh, any

2300
01:06:43,996 --> 01:06:44,763
property in Wilmington as far

2301
01:06:44,763 --> 01:06:45,640
as density, if you

2302
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:45,964
re going to

2303
01:06:45,964 --> 01:06:46,532
do cdm, you we

2304
01:06:46,532 --> 01:06:47,633
re not asking

2305
01:06:47,633 --> 01:06:48,100
for extra units. We

2306
01:06:48,100 --> 01:06:50,100
re just

2307
01:06:50,436 --> 01:06:53,840
asking to lift what we think is

2308
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:55,208
an outdated density cap from

2309
01:06:55,208 --> 01:06:56,443
2013.

2310
01:06:56,443 --> 01:06:57,210
Thank you.

2311
01:06:57,210 --> 01:06:59,210
Thank you.

2312
01:06:59,613 --> 01:06:59,747
Commissioner Pawlak.

2313
01:06:59,747 --> 01:07:00,848
I

2314
01:07:00,848 --> 01:07:02,848
m still thinking.

2315
01:07:03,884 --> 01:07:05,884
Okay.

2316
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:08,623
MAY take a while, I guess.

2317
01:07:08,623 --> 01:07:09,992
Yeah, man. I it

2318
01:07:09,992 --> 01:07:10,159
s in my mind.

2319
01:07:10,159 --> 01:07:10,926
It

2320
01:07:10,926 --> 01:07:11,600
s no big deal. But you

2321
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:12,461
re

2322
01:07:12,461 --> 01:07:12,795
talking obviously density here.

2323
01:07:12,795 --> 01:07:13,496
I mean that

2324
01:07:13,496 --> 01:07:14,463
s the important

2325
01:07:14,463 --> 01:07:15,231
thing. And it

2326
01:07:15,231 --> 01:07:16,131
s changed no

2327
01:07:16,131 --> 01:07:17,433
doubt about it. Over the last

2328
01:07:17,433 --> 01:07:18,267
ten whatever years. But I

2329
01:07:18,267 --> 01:07:20,267
m a

2330
01:07:20,837 --> 01:07:22,305
little bit like MR. Adams

2331
01:07:22,305 --> 01:07:24,407
about, you know, usually we

2332
01:07:24,407 --> 01:07:27,430
have a plan. You need to, you

2333
01:07:27,430 --> 01:07:28,179
know, a change to accommodate

2334
01:07:28,179 --> 01:07:28,646
the plan, but you don

2335
01:07:28,646 --> 01:07:29,947
t have a

2336
01:07:29,947 --> 01:07:30,214
plan. As far as I know, there

2337
01:07:30,214 --> 01:07:31,883
s

2338
01:07:31,883 --> 01:07:32,490
no concept. But if there is, we

2339
01:07:32,490 --> 01:07:32,483
don

2340
01:07:32,483 --> 01:07:32,817
t know about it. It

2341
01:07:32,817 --> 01:07:34,817
s just.

2342
01:07:35,219 --> 01:07:36,854
You want the ability to do

2343
01:07:36,854 --> 01:07:39,524
something different. Why are we

2344
01:07:39,524 --> 01:07:42,394
not waiting until you come up

2345
01:07:42,394 --> 01:07:45,298
with why you need this change?

2346
01:07:45,298 --> 01:07:47,500
Well, again, the the the

2347
01:07:47,500 --> 01:07:48,568
property was approved and

2348
01:07:48,568 --> 01:07:50,968
developed and has been

2349
01:07:51,710 --> 01:07:53,710
developed very responsibly

2350
01:07:54,740 --> 01:07:55,942
under the 2013 approval as a

2351
01:07:55,942 --> 01:07:57,644
quote unquote, bubble plan that

2352
01:07:57,644 --> 01:08:01,244
was allowed. Uh, I think my

2353
01:08:02,215 --> 01:08:04,686
clients have exceeded, uh, the,

2354
01:08:04,686 --> 01:08:05,820
um, sort of expectation as far

2355
01:08:05,820 --> 01:08:08,557
as the quality of the

2356
01:08:08,557 --> 01:08:09,958
development, the landscaping,

2357
01:08:09,958 --> 01:08:11,426
the layout, much of what you

2358
01:08:11,426 --> 01:08:11,627
see here from 2013, that

2359
01:08:11,627 --> 01:08:13,627
s

2360
01:08:13,729 --> 01:08:15,397
essentially the same sort of

2361
01:08:15,397 --> 01:08:17,299
main arterial layout of the

2362
01:08:17,299 --> 01:08:19,699
streets. All the traffic

2363
01:08:20,570 --> 01:08:22,372
signals, um, the trying to

2364
01:08:22,372 --> 01:08:23,940
provide a mixed use center and

2365
01:08:23,940 --> 01:08:27,440
a very sort of centralized part

2366
01:08:27,440 --> 01:08:29,313
of the, of the city. So, um,

2367
01:08:29,313 --> 01:08:31,849
there is no current plan. But

2368
01:08:31,849 --> 01:08:34,618
in looking at folks that MAY

2369
01:08:34,618 --> 01:08:36,654
want to sort of come in and,

2370
01:08:36,654 --> 01:08:36,821
and do something there, um,

2371
01:08:36,821 --> 01:08:37,856
we

2372
01:08:37,856 --> 01:08:39,424
re just asking for the

2373
01:08:39,424 --> 01:08:41,930
opportunity to complete the

2374
01:08:41,930 --> 01:08:43,162
project under the current

2375
01:08:43,162 --> 01:08:43,362
framework of a bubble plan.

2376
01:08:43,362 --> 01:08:45,362
There

2377
01:08:45,765 --> 01:08:47,400
s no plan there today.

2378
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:48,801
And they could go out there and

2379
01:08:48,801 --> 01:08:49,836
do development there without

2380
01:08:49,836 --> 01:08:51,537
going through a conditional

2381
01:08:51,537 --> 01:08:54,537
process, because it is already

2382
01:08:54,541 --> 01:08:56,377
conditional approved. So I

2383
01:08:56,377 --> 01:08:58,279
realize the code has changed,

2384
01:08:58,279 --> 01:08:59,881
but we would ask for the

2385
01:08:59,881 --> 01:09:00,915
ability just to proceed under

2386
01:09:00,915 --> 01:09:02,283
the format that it was

2387
01:09:02,283 --> 01:09:03,985
approved. And I think my

2388
01:09:03,985 --> 01:09:05,353
clients have proven to the city

2389
01:09:05,353 --> 01:09:07,389
that they have done a very

2390
01:09:07,389 --> 01:09:09,558
responsible job in developing

2391
01:09:09,558 --> 01:09:10,725
it and continue to do high

2392
01:09:10,725 --> 01:09:11,393
quality, and there

2393
01:09:11,393 --> 01:09:11,960
s no reason

2394
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:12,261
to believe that they

2395
01:09:12,261 --> 01:09:13,496
re going

2396
01:09:13,496 --> 01:09:16,299
to, again, go out there and do

2397
01:09:16,299 --> 01:09:18,168
something that will, um, really

2398
01:09:18,168 --> 01:09:18,334
hurt or hurt the development.

2399
01:09:18,334 --> 01:09:19,970
It

2400
01:09:19,970 --> 01:09:21,204
s obviously in their in

2401
01:09:21,204 --> 01:09:22,572
their best interest to continue

2402
01:09:22,572 --> 01:09:23,440
to develop it in a very

2403
01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:23,573
responsible way. And that

2404
01:09:23,573 --> 01:09:23,840
s

2405
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:24,341
what they

2406
01:09:24,341 --> 01:09:24,541
re going to do. And

2407
01:09:24,541 --> 01:09:25,542
that

2408
01:09:25,542 --> 01:09:27,942
s absolutely what their

2409
01:09:30,415 --> 01:09:32,617
track record is. And so, um.

2410
01:09:32,617 --> 01:09:34,190
The the project was designed

2411
01:09:34,190 --> 01:09:36,655
with some flexibility in mind.

2412
01:09:36,655 --> 01:09:39,424
And that flexibility, um, is

2413
01:09:39,424 --> 01:09:40,125
um, is still important to them.

2414
01:09:40,125 --> 01:09:42,125
Thank you.

2415
01:09:42,628 --> 01:09:44,628
MR. Commissioner Jones.

2416
01:09:44,863 --> 01:09:47,233
Um, yeah. Just to point out for

2417
01:09:47,233 --> 01:09:48,680
you, his question is that

2418
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:49,136
number of years it

2419
01:09:49,136 --> 01:09:51,136
s hard to

2420
01:09:51,705 --> 01:09:52,806
project what the trends are

2421
01:09:52,806 --> 01:09:54,341
going to be and how people are

2422
01:09:54,341 --> 01:09:56,377
going to live and things

2423
01:09:56,377 --> 01:09:58,912
change. And why would we would

2424
01:09:58,912 --> 01:10:00,614
go ahead and rezone it now is

2425
01:10:00,614 --> 01:10:01,749
because when clients come or

2426
01:10:01,749 --> 01:10:03,618
interested in a piece of

2427
01:10:03,618 --> 01:10:05,354
property, they factor in the

2428
01:10:05,354 --> 01:10:08,190
time that it takes to go

2429
01:10:08,190 --> 01:10:10,726
through the process. Um, the

2430
01:10:10,726 --> 01:10:14,664
question I had was on the tree

2431
01:10:14,664 --> 01:10:15,364
line behind Wilmington Health.

2432
01:10:15,364 --> 01:10:16,933
Yes.

2433
01:10:16,933 --> 01:10:17,433
Is that like construction?

2434
01:10:17,433 --> 01:10:18,334
Staging? There

2435
01:10:18,334 --> 01:10:20,360
s several looks

2436
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:21,871
like buildings right there on

2437
01:10:21,871 --> 01:10:23,871
the bottom right.

2438
01:10:24,742 --> 01:10:25,576
The.

2439
01:10:25,576 --> 01:10:27,411
I think she

2440
01:10:27,411 --> 01:10:28,212
s above the words

2441
01:10:28,212 --> 01:10:29,800
future development.

2442
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:31,150
Right above.

2443
01:10:31,150 --> 01:10:32,717
Oh, yeah. So there

2444
01:10:32,717 --> 01:10:32,884
s, um I

2445
01:10:32,884 --> 01:10:33,218
don

2446
01:10:33,218 --> 01:10:33,751
t know if it

2447
01:10:33,751 --> 01:10:34,819
s shown in the

2448
01:10:34,819 --> 01:10:35,520
recent photo. Let me let me go

2449
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:35,787
back to the other one.

2450
01:10:35,787 --> 01:10:36,454
Is that.

2451
01:10:36,454 --> 01:10:37,389
The the. Yeah.

2452
01:10:37,389 --> 01:10:37,789
That Wilmington Health

2453
01:10:37,789 --> 01:10:39,424
building.

2454
01:10:39,424 --> 01:10:39,724
Yeah. So the parking okay.

2455
01:10:39,724 --> 01:10:41,724
Yeah. I

2456
01:10:41,727 --> 01:10:44,364
m not sure that exact

2457
01:10:44,364 --> 01:10:46,320
equipment. Um, but, um, you can

2458
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:48,301
see from the previous photo

2459
01:10:48,301 --> 01:10:50,337
that, um, that parking lot

2460
01:10:50,337 --> 01:10:52,639
really is a big benefit. Um,

2461
01:10:52,639 --> 01:10:53,974
that it was needed. Um, there

2462
01:10:53,974 --> 01:10:54,541
was there, um, it

2463
01:10:54,541 --> 01:10:55,742
s very

2464
01:10:55,742 --> 01:10:57,312
helpful to have that additional

2465
01:10:57,312 --> 01:11:00,749
parking there. I can I can

2466
01:11:00,749 --> 01:11:01,583
speak to that myself. Um, so I

2467
01:11:01,583 --> 01:11:03,510
know that that was just

2468
01:11:03,510 --> 01:11:06,510
recently completed. It MAY be

2469
01:11:06,922 --> 01:11:07,355
part of it. Um, but, um, yeah,

2470
01:11:07,355 --> 01:11:09,355
I think that

2471
01:11:09,458 --> 01:11:11,727
s a big, a big,

2472
01:11:11,727 --> 01:11:12,528
uh, improvement with the

2473
01:11:12,528 --> 01:11:12,761
availability because that

2474
01:11:12,761 --> 01:11:12,961
s a

2475
01:11:12,961 --> 01:11:13,429
that

2476
01:11:13,429 --> 01:11:14,496
s a doctor

2477
01:11:14,496 --> 01:11:15,598
s office, and

2478
01:11:15,598 --> 01:11:17,901
you want to have ample parking

2479
01:11:17,901 --> 01:11:19,970
for folks to get in and out.

2480
01:11:19,970 --> 01:11:20,704
Um, so I, I

2481
01:11:20,704 --> 01:11:22,390
m not sure the

2482
01:11:22,390 --> 01:11:23,107
specific equipment you were

2483
01:11:23,107 --> 01:11:24,408
referencing, but there has been

2484
01:11:24,408 --> 01:11:26,408
construction activity out

2485
01:11:27,578 --> 01:11:27,711
there, and there is ongoing.

2486
01:11:27,711 --> 01:11:28,679
I

2487
01:11:28,679 --> 01:11:29,447
m just guessing what that is

2488
01:11:29,447 --> 01:11:29,814
because it looks like it

2489
01:11:29,814 --> 01:11:31,814
s a,

2490
01:11:32,116 --> 01:11:33,585
you know, undeveloped parcel

2491
01:11:33,585 --> 01:11:33,952
with things around the tree

2492
01:11:33,952 --> 01:11:35,200
line. And I

2493
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:35,721
m guessing that

2494
01:11:35,721 --> 01:11:36,789
Monteith or whoever

2495
01:11:36,789 --> 01:11:37,990
s did their

2496
01:11:37,990 --> 01:11:38,324
construction staging back

2497
01:11:38,324 --> 01:11:38,924
there, but it

2498
01:11:38,924 --> 01:11:39,580
s not.

2499
01:11:39,580 --> 01:11:39,391
I

2500
01:11:39,391 --> 01:11:40,126
d have.

2501
01:11:40,126 --> 01:11:40,360
Not really relevant.

2502
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:40,959
I don

2503
01:11:40,959 --> 01:11:41,327
t know. Yeah. I

2504
01:11:41,327 --> 01:11:41,560
d have to

2505
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:42,128
ask. I

2506
01:11:42,128 --> 01:11:42,328
m sorry.

2507
01:11:42,328 --> 01:11:44,328
No.

2508
01:11:45,398 --> 01:11:45,598
No worries.

2509
01:11:45,598 --> 01:11:47,598
That

2510
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:49,569
s a I mean, you answered

2511
01:11:49,569 --> 01:11:51,172
my other two questions down the

2512
01:11:51,172 --> 01:11:52,473
line.

2513
01:11:52,473 --> 01:11:54,208
Commissioner Collier.

2514
01:11:54,208 --> 01:11:55,643
Thank you, MR. Chair. MR.

2515
01:11:55,643 --> 01:11:59,243
Nichols, the I guess the one

2516
01:11:59,914 --> 01:12:01,416
question the the overall 1375

2517
01:12:01,416 --> 01:12:02,584
is that the total number or

2518
01:12:02,584 --> 01:12:03,952
something thereabouts. That

2519
01:12:03,952 --> 01:12:04,519
number is not changing.

2520
01:12:04,519 --> 01:12:04,719
Correct?

2521
01:12:04,719 --> 01:12:05,153
That

2522
01:12:05,153 --> 01:12:05,654
s correct.

2523
01:12:05,654 --> 01:12:06,788
So what you

2524
01:12:06,788 --> 01:12:07,557
re doing is you

2525
01:12:07,557 --> 01:12:07,723
re

2526
01:12:07,723 --> 01:12:09,396
you

2527
01:12:09,396 --> 01:12:10,994
re being able to move some

2528
01:12:10,994 --> 01:12:12,362
of the density into this one

2529
01:12:12,362 --> 01:12:15,962
area, more so than what you

2530
01:12:16,866 --> 01:12:18,234
would have in 2013 or 20 18 or

2531
01:12:18,234 --> 01:12:19,350
2023. Is that correct or

2532
01:12:19,350 --> 01:12:19,536
incorrect?

2533
01:12:19,536 --> 01:12:20,503
I think it

2534
01:12:20,503 --> 01:12:20,637
s yes, sir, if I

2535
01:12:20,637 --> 01:12:22,172
m

2536
01:12:22,172 --> 01:12:24,172
understanding correctly. So,

2537
01:12:26,770 --> 01:12:29,800
um, the what one of the

2538
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:31,116
original concepts was to simply

2539
01:12:31,116 --> 01:12:34,386
come back in and ask for the

2540
01:12:34,386 --> 01:12:35,821
1375 to be raised. Um, after

2541
01:12:35,821 --> 01:12:37,880
discussions with the city, our

2542
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:39,488
understanding is that would

2543
01:12:39,858 --> 01:12:40,959
require us to rezone all 302

2544
01:12:40,959 --> 01:12:42,262
acres. There

2545
01:12:42,262 --> 01:12:43,496
s multiple

2546
01:12:43,496 --> 01:12:44,970
different owners now. There

2547
01:12:44,970 --> 01:12:46,970
s

2548
01:12:47,334 --> 01:12:49,169
it would be, um, it would be

2549
01:12:49,169 --> 01:12:49,837
very sort of complicated to do

2550
01:12:49,837 --> 01:12:50,938
that.

2551
01:12:50,938 --> 01:12:52,673
Resets the code.

2552
01:12:52,673 --> 01:12:54,608
So yes. Yeah. So and again, in

2553
01:12:54,608 --> 01:12:55,342
discussions with staff and we

2554
01:12:55,342 --> 01:12:56,377
do appreciate staff

2555
01:12:56,377 --> 01:12:58,377
s help and

2556
01:12:59,213 --> 01:13:00,649
guidance on how, how we could

2557
01:13:00,649 --> 01:13:02,851
potentially present this for

2558
01:13:02,851 --> 01:13:05,851
consideration would be to have

2559
01:13:06,422 --> 01:13:08,357
a um, just have a zone sort of

2560
01:13:08,357 --> 01:13:11,160
carved out here where it has

2561
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:13,329
its own conditions and most of

2562
01:13:13,329 --> 01:13:14,730
the conditions are again, yeah,

2563
01:13:14,730 --> 01:13:16,599
there was like 26 or so.

2564
01:13:16,599 --> 01:13:18,999
Condition conditions would not

2565
01:13:19,690 --> 01:13:20,838
be outside of the the

2566
01:13:20,838 --> 01:13:22,838
conditions previously. Correct.

2567
01:13:24,410 --> 01:13:25,420
Like the 1375.

2568
01:13:25,420 --> 01:13:25,443
No reply to this.

2569
01:13:25,443 --> 01:13:27,443
So you

2570
01:13:29,514 --> 01:13:31,820
re saying 1375 in 2013

2571
01:13:31,820 --> 01:13:33,251
would have been a total. But

2572
01:13:33,251 --> 01:13:35,588
today if we agreed with this,

2573
01:13:35,588 --> 01:13:36,155
it would be 1375 plus I know

2574
01:13:36,155 --> 01:13:37,557
208 it

2575
01:13:37,557 --> 01:13:38,624
s just a number, but

2576
01:13:38,624 --> 01:13:39,250
plus 208.

2577
01:13:39,250 --> 01:13:39,425
I think that

2578
01:13:39,425 --> 01:13:39,559
s I think that

2579
01:13:39,559 --> 01:13:40,426
s

2580
01:13:40,426 --> 01:13:40,793
one way to look at it. Yes,

2581
01:13:40,793 --> 01:13:41,327
sir. That

2582
01:13:41,327 --> 01:13:43,327
s right.

2583
01:13:43,363 --> 01:13:43,630
All right. And I have no qualms

2584
01:13:43,630 --> 01:13:44,597
that what

2585
01:13:44,597 --> 01:13:45,999
s going to be built

2586
01:13:45,999 --> 01:13:47,467
would be built in the in a

2587
01:13:47,467 --> 01:13:48,468
professional manner that is

2588
01:13:48,468 --> 01:13:48,835
very evident of what

2589
01:13:48,835 --> 01:13:49,870
s out

2590
01:13:49,870 --> 01:13:50,604
there. I think everyone

2591
01:13:50,604 --> 01:13:52,173
s just

2592
01:13:52,173 --> 01:13:53,408
more discussing how the how the

2593
01:13:53,408 --> 01:13:54,876
density side of it is going to

2594
01:13:54,876 --> 01:13:56,177
be done. And if there was a

2595
01:13:56,177 --> 01:13:56,344
limit on if you said, okay,

2596
01:13:56,344 --> 01:13:58,344
we

2597
01:13:58,446 --> 01:13:58,680
re only going to go to 150,

2598
01:13:58,680 --> 01:13:59,247
I don

2599
01:13:59,247 --> 01:14:00,849
t know what the number

2600
01:14:00,849 --> 01:14:02,951
is, but a number that MAY make

2601
01:14:02,951 --> 01:14:05,351
everyone more palatable. Um,

2602
01:14:05,454 --> 01:14:07,656
you also changed the uses to

2603
01:14:07,656 --> 01:14:09,458
all uses in. Oh, and I accept

2604
01:14:09,458 --> 01:14:11,294
that which ones you accepted I

2605
01:14:11,294 --> 01:14:12,195
thought were really good, but,

2606
01:14:12,195 --> 01:14:12,596
um, so I don

2607
01:14:12,596 --> 01:14:12,996
t know. I don

2608
01:14:12,996 --> 01:14:13,163
t I

2609
01:14:13,163 --> 01:14:14,231
don

2610
01:14:14,231 --> 01:14:14,431
t have any issues with

2611
01:14:14,431 --> 01:14:15,766
what

2612
01:14:15,766 --> 01:14:16,767
s going on, but I do want

2613
01:14:16,767 --> 01:14:17,734
to know how the density is

2614
01:14:17,734 --> 01:14:18,168
going to be done, because it

2615
01:14:18,168 --> 01:14:19,503
sounds like we

2616
01:14:19,503 --> 01:14:20,671
re fixing one

2617
01:14:20,671 --> 01:14:21,672
little park, but we

2618
01:14:21,672 --> 01:14:23,507
re adding

2619
01:14:23,507 --> 01:14:24,875
density to the overall, which

2620
01:14:24,875 --> 01:14:25,743
is what I thought that the city

2621
01:14:25,743 --> 01:14:27,112
was telling you. You would have

2622
01:14:27,112 --> 01:14:27,312
to change to do it. And I know

2623
01:14:27,312 --> 01:14:28,881
that

2624
01:14:28,881 --> 01:14:29,470
s not exactly right, but

2625
01:14:29,470 --> 01:14:29,548
it

2626
01:14:29,548 --> 01:14:30,916
s.

2627
01:14:30,916 --> 01:14:32,251
Yeah, well, a couple of things.

2628
01:14:32,251 --> 01:14:33,752
I would say this is one of the

2629
01:14:33,752 --> 01:14:35,754
last remaining parts on this

2630
01:14:35,754 --> 01:14:35,921
side of the, of the street. So

2631
01:14:35,921 --> 01:14:37,560
it

2632
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:37,723
s um, we

2633
01:14:37,723 --> 01:14:39,291
re really kind of

2634
01:14:39,291 --> 01:14:41,961
at the toward the end of the

2635
01:14:41,961 --> 01:14:44,263
finish line. Um, not quite

2636
01:14:44,263 --> 01:14:45,633
there, but, um, like I said,

2637
01:14:45,633 --> 01:14:49,233
the the density has for the

2638
01:14:50,104 --> 01:14:53,400
most part been allocated and is

2639
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:53,441
been, um, used up. I don

2640
01:14:53,441 --> 01:14:54,175
t know

2641
01:14:54,175 --> 01:14:54,475
how else to say it. I don

2642
01:14:54,475 --> 01:14:54,809
t

2643
01:14:54,809 --> 01:14:55,510
know if that

2644
01:14:55,510 --> 01:14:56,311
s the planning

2645
01:14:56,311 --> 01:14:57,245
term, but we

2646
01:14:57,245 --> 01:14:59,645
re toward the end

2647
01:15:01,349 --> 01:15:02,510
of the allowable 2013 density

2648
01:15:02,510 --> 01:15:04,510
and.

2649
01:15:04,220 --> 01:15:05,888
The 1375.

2650
01:15:05,888 --> 01:15:07,888
The 1375. Yes, sir.

2651
01:15:08,910 --> 01:15:09,892
So hang on. Let me ask, is that

2652
01:15:09,892 --> 01:15:10,560
the 44 you were talking about?

2653
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:11,294
Is that all that

2654
01:15:11,294 --> 01:15:11,427
s left on the.

2655
01:15:11,427 --> 01:15:12,128
I

2656
01:15:12,128 --> 01:15:12,428
m sorry, Matt, I didn

2657
01:15:12,428 --> 01:15:14,197
t mean

2658
01:15:14,197 --> 01:15:14,397
to cut you off.

2659
01:15:14,397 --> 01:15:14,831
That

2660
01:15:14,831 --> 01:15:16,232
s all that

2661
01:15:16,232 --> 01:15:17,667
s left for

2662
01:15:17,667 --> 01:15:20,504
commercial area. So for. Oh,

2663
01:15:20,504 --> 01:15:22,140
and I and rb zoned master

2664
01:15:22,140 --> 01:15:22,774
planned areas, they have 44

2665
01:15:22,774 --> 01:15:23,274
left.

2666
01:15:23,274 --> 01:15:23,708
Okay.

2667
01:15:23,708 --> 01:15:24,976
Right.

2668
01:15:24,976 --> 01:15:25,243
Sorry I apologize. No that

2669
01:15:25,243 --> 01:15:27,243
s

2670
01:15:27,579 --> 01:15:28,647
fine. Um, I

2671
01:15:28,647 --> 01:15:31,647
ve lost my train of

2672
01:15:34,253 --> 01:15:36,222
thought, but, um, on the as far

2673
01:15:36,222 --> 01:15:38,692
as the density cap, again, the

2674
01:15:38,692 --> 01:15:40,930
cap is in the code.

2675
01:15:40,930 --> 01:15:40,894
17 units an acre, right?

2676
01:15:40,894 --> 01:15:41,895
Yeah. So we

2677
01:15:41,895 --> 01:15:43,398
re not asking for

2678
01:15:43,398 --> 01:15:45,467
anything beyond what the code

2679
01:15:45,467 --> 01:15:45,899
allows. And again, perhaps I

2680
01:15:45,899 --> 01:15:47,568
m

2681
01:15:47,568 --> 01:15:48,680
oversimplifying it, but but

2682
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:50,680
again, all we

2683
01:15:50,604 --> 01:15:53,400
re asking is in

2684
01:15:53,641 --> 01:15:55,410
2026, does it make sense to say

2685
01:15:55,410 --> 01:15:58,800
you could only do 44 units?

2686
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:00,480
There? And we respectfully

2687
01:16:01,350 --> 01:16:02,718
contend no. Again, of all the

2688
01:16:02,718 --> 01:16:05,870
things that you all consider

2689
01:16:05,870 --> 01:16:06,756
and you have much sort of

2690
01:16:06,756 --> 01:16:09,756
bigger unit counts come before

2691
01:16:11,260 --> 01:16:12,329
you at times. Um, I would say

2692
01:16:12,329 --> 01:16:15,432
of all the different sites that

2693
01:16:15,432 --> 01:16:15,599
you evaluate, this is probably

2694
01:16:15,599 --> 01:16:16,267
it

2695
01:16:16,267 --> 01:16:16,567
s not my call, it

2696
01:16:16,567 --> 01:16:16,700
s y

2697
01:16:16,700 --> 01:16:16,834
all

2698
01:16:16,834 --> 01:16:18,834
s

2699
01:16:18,836 --> 01:16:20,671
call. But this is probably one

2700
01:16:20,671 --> 01:16:23,541
of the types of sites that you

2701
01:16:23,541 --> 01:16:25,143
would say is ideal for more

2702
01:16:25,143 --> 01:16:27,143
density.

2703
01:16:27,345 --> 01:16:29,113
And I agree it is ideal for

2704
01:16:29,113 --> 01:16:30,382
more density. I am not

2705
01:16:30,382 --> 01:16:32,184
absolutely not debating that

2706
01:16:32,184 --> 01:16:32,351
one with you at all. I think

2707
01:16:32,351 --> 01:16:32,952
it

2708
01:16:32,952 --> 01:16:34,654
s the it

2709
01:16:34,654 --> 01:16:34,921
s just how it seems

2710
01:16:34,921 --> 01:16:35,388
that it

2711
01:16:35,388 --> 01:16:36,555
s you

2712
01:16:36,555 --> 01:16:38,955
re adding on the

2713
01:16:39,659 --> 01:16:39,959
total that was approved in 2013

2714
01:16:39,959 --> 01:16:40,260
and we

2715
01:16:40,260 --> 01:16:40,493
re, we

2716
01:16:40,493 --> 01:16:40,960
re we

2717
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:41,294
re adding

2718
01:16:41,294 --> 01:16:41,694
to it. We

2719
01:16:41,694 --> 01:16:42,495
re we

2720
01:16:42,495 --> 01:16:44,495
re going over

2721
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:46,633
it artificially. Um, and site

2722
01:16:46,633 --> 01:16:46,833
plan or not, it

2723
01:16:46,833 --> 01:16:47,168
s we

2724
01:16:47,168 --> 01:16:48,636
re still

2725
01:16:48,636 --> 01:16:49,937
going up over the cap that was

2726
01:16:49,937 --> 01:16:50,405
agreed upon. So I

2727
01:16:50,405 --> 01:16:51,806
m not sure

2728
01:16:51,806 --> 01:16:52,574
how to reconcile that in my

2729
01:16:52,574 --> 01:16:53,975
mind. But you

2730
01:16:53,975 --> 01:16:55,377
re right. This is

2731
01:16:55,377 --> 01:16:56,645
absolutely the perfect place to

2732
01:16:56,645 --> 01:16:57,946
put the density. You can go

2733
01:16:57,946 --> 01:16:58,113
high if you want to. I think

2734
01:16:58,113 --> 01:16:58,981
it

2735
01:16:58,981 --> 01:17:00,981
s wonderful.

2736
01:17:01,817 --> 01:17:03,285
Yeah. And and please keep in

2737
01:17:03,285 --> 01:17:04,487
mind that as part of the

2738
01:17:04,487 --> 01:17:05,955
condition, through the process,

2739
01:17:05,955 --> 01:17:06,189
there is like a so there

2740
01:17:06,189 --> 01:17:08,189
s a

2741
01:17:08,725 --> 01:17:09,259
sort of a, an overall Tia for

2742
01:17:09,259 --> 01:17:11,259
this that

2743
01:17:12,329 --> 01:17:14,865
s been um, sort of

2744
01:17:14,865 --> 01:17:16,500
adopted, updated, uh, sort of

2745
01:17:16,500 --> 01:17:18,635
renewed over time. So this will

2746
01:17:18,635 --> 01:17:19,690
go through whatever goes there,

2747
01:17:19,690 --> 01:17:19,737
whether there

2748
01:17:19,737 --> 01:17:19,970
s residential or

2749
01:17:19,970 --> 01:17:20,938
not, it

2750
01:17:20,938 --> 01:17:23,938
s going to go through

2751
01:17:24,576 --> 01:17:27,446
the full trc review. The Tia

2752
01:17:27,446 --> 01:17:27,613
analysis, um, you know, this

2753
01:17:27,613 --> 01:17:29,613
isn

2754
01:17:30,249 --> 01:17:32,484
t a the approval tonight,

2755
01:17:32,484 --> 01:17:35,254
which we certainly hope that,

2756
01:17:35,254 --> 01:17:36,556
um, in in the commission

2757
01:17:36,556 --> 01:17:38,324
s um,

2758
01:17:38,324 --> 01:17:38,791
decision here proves it, but

2759
01:17:38,791 --> 01:17:39,726
that doesn

2760
01:17:39,726 --> 01:17:41,595
t allow us to go out

2761
01:17:41,595 --> 01:17:42,162
and, and as, as you know, MR.

2762
01:17:42,162 --> 01:17:42,763
Collier doesn

2763
01:17:42,763 --> 01:17:45,990
t allow us to go

2764
01:17:45,990 --> 01:17:46,500
out and do anything other than

2765
01:17:46,500 --> 01:17:47,935
apply and go through the city

2766
01:17:47,935 --> 01:17:49,270
process and meet all the

2767
01:17:49,270 --> 01:17:49,403
requirements. And if there

2768
01:17:49,403 --> 01:17:50,304
s

2769
01:17:50,304 --> 01:17:51,506
additional improvements that

2770
01:17:51,506 --> 01:17:53,700
need to be done, they certainly

2771
01:17:53,700 --> 01:17:53,341
have to be done. But we

2772
01:17:53,341 --> 01:17:53,508
re

2773
01:17:53,508 --> 01:17:55,508
we

2774
01:17:56,211 --> 01:17:58,180
re asking for, again, a

2775
01:17:58,180 --> 01:18:00,580
reconsideration of a 13 year

2776
01:18:01,250 --> 01:18:03,486
old condition. Um, that to me

2777
01:18:03,486 --> 01:18:06,422
was a very low cap to begin

2778
01:18:06,422 --> 01:18:07,723
with. And we

2779
01:18:07,723 --> 01:18:09,525
re asking to just

2780
01:18:09,525 --> 01:18:11,561
meet what the code allows as

2781
01:18:11,561 --> 01:18:13,931
far as density on that site.

2782
01:18:13,931 --> 01:18:15,466
Would this be the last? In

2783
01:18:15,466 --> 01:18:17,135
general, the last parcel that

2784
01:18:17,135 --> 01:18:19,137
you would want to put that

2785
01:18:19,137 --> 01:18:19,471
density on, I think is right

2786
01:18:19,471 --> 01:18:20,138
now what we

2787
01:18:20,138 --> 01:18:21,773
re talking about

2788
01:18:21,773 --> 01:18:21,906
only applies in yellow. That

2789
01:18:21,906 --> 01:18:22,841
s

2790
01:18:22,841 --> 01:18:23,141
correct. Yellow boundary.

2791
01:18:23,141 --> 01:18:23,875
Right. That

2792
01:18:23,875 --> 01:18:24,976
s a great point. It

2793
01:18:24,976 --> 01:18:26,111
does what what we

2794
01:18:26,111 --> 01:18:28,111
re asking for

2795
01:18:29,348 --> 01:18:31,784
tonight as far as not having

2796
01:18:31,784 --> 01:18:32,719
this, uh, 2013 density cap only

2797
01:18:32,719 --> 01:18:35,789
applies to what you see in

2798
01:18:35,789 --> 01:18:37,324
yellow, uh, two thirds or a

2799
01:18:37,324 --> 01:18:37,757
third of it, which is you

2800
01:18:37,757 --> 01:18:38,258
already know it

2801
01:18:38,258 --> 01:18:38,925
s there. It

2802
01:18:38,925 --> 01:18:39,920
s a

2803
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:39,893
it

2804
01:18:39,893 --> 01:18:40,794
s an office building and a

2805
01:18:40,794 --> 01:18:41,194
parking lot. So we

2806
01:18:41,194 --> 01:18:43,194
re down to

2807
01:18:43,730 --> 01:18:44,431
about seven and a half acres,

2808
01:18:44,431 --> 01:18:46,133
and we think it

2809
01:18:46,133 --> 01:18:47,968
d be a great it

2810
01:18:47,968 --> 01:18:48,936
would be a great opportunity to

2811
01:18:48,936 --> 01:18:50,936
potentially have some

2812
01:18:51,339 --> 01:18:53,141
residential there. Um, but we

2813
01:18:53,141 --> 01:18:54,910
do not have a plan for it. And

2814
01:18:54,910 --> 01:18:57,790
we look forward to, you know,

2815
01:18:57,790 --> 01:18:58,280
having an opportunity to have

2816
01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:00,482
someone come up with something

2817
01:19:00,482 --> 01:19:01,817
there that really fits and they

2818
01:19:01,817 --> 01:19:03,185
can be very selective about

2819
01:19:03,185 --> 01:19:04,487
what they want to go there.

2820
01:19:04,487 --> 01:19:06,487
Sure. And it

2821
01:19:07,157 --> 01:19:07,391
s not, uh, and my

2822
01:19:07,391 --> 01:19:08,992
client

2823
01:19:08,992 --> 01:19:10,794
s not going to just have

2824
01:19:10,794 --> 01:19:11,695
something there because someone

2825
01:19:11,695 --> 01:19:11,862
comes along with it. I mean,

2826
01:19:11,862 --> 01:19:12,796
it

2827
01:19:12,796 --> 01:19:15,320
s very important that it

2828
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:15,933
fits in with the development

2829
01:19:15,933 --> 01:19:17,268
and that it

2830
01:19:17,268 --> 01:19:18,436
s cohesive with the

2831
01:19:18,436 --> 01:19:20,271
rest of the development and

2832
01:19:20,271 --> 01:19:21,239
fits the architecture and fits

2833
01:19:21,239 --> 01:19:21,439
the use and all that sort of

2834
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:23,439
thing.

2835
01:19:23,708 --> 01:19:25,444
So will we only apply the 17

2836
01:19:25,444 --> 01:19:27,279
dwelling units an acre to the

2837
01:19:27,279 --> 01:19:30,879
two green treed areas and not

2838
01:19:30,917 --> 01:19:33,386
to the Wilmington Health parcel?

2839
01:19:33,386 --> 01:19:34,587
Um, could you say that again?

2840
01:19:34,587 --> 01:19:35,540
Sorry. So in the in your

2841
01:19:35,540 --> 01:19:35,755
picture, you

2842
01:19:35,755 --> 01:19:37,924
ve got a big

2843
01:19:37,924 --> 01:19:38,224
overall yellow area that is.

2844
01:19:38,224 --> 01:19:38,725
Yes. I don

2845
01:19:38,725 --> 01:19:39,526
t know what that

2846
01:19:39,526 --> 01:19:39,993
acreage is right now.

2847
01:19:39,993 --> 01:19:41,929
But it

2848
01:19:41,929 --> 01:19:42,463
s about 12.25.

2849
01:19:42,463 --> 01:19:43,640
So then there

2850
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:44,932
s seven and a

2851
01:19:44,932 --> 01:19:46,501
half left to be developed or

2852
01:19:46,501 --> 01:19:47,680
thereabouts, 8 to 8 acres or

2853
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:48,169
something like that.

2854
01:19:48,169 --> 01:19:51,769
Seven and a half. Yes, sir.

2855
01:19:52,674 --> 01:19:53,408
Would that 7.5 times 17 be all

2856
01:19:53,408 --> 01:19:53,642
that you put it on? You

2857
01:19:53,642 --> 01:19:55,642
wouldn

2858
01:19:56,711 --> 01:19:59,711
t try to apply 17 times

2859
01:20:00,490 --> 01:20:02,449
the entire yellow boundary.

2860
01:20:03,190 --> 01:20:04,120
Um. I don

2861
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:04,754
t they

2862
01:20:04,754 --> 01:20:05,855
re not doing

2863
01:20:05,855 --> 01:20:06,356
anything with the building at

2864
01:20:06,356 --> 01:20:06,957
all.

2865
01:20:06,957 --> 01:20:07,691
I understand.

2866
01:20:07,691 --> 01:20:08,325
, yeah, I don

2867
01:20:08,325 --> 01:20:08,658
t.

2868
01:20:08,658 --> 01:20:09,426
But if we

2869
01:20:09,426 --> 01:20:11,426
re talking about

2870
01:20:11,595 --> 01:20:13,364
density, only an area, the

2871
01:20:13,364 --> 01:20:15,332
density is calculated on either

2872
01:20:15,332 --> 01:20:17,736
the total area or a part of it.

2873
01:20:17,736 --> 01:20:19,671
So if you put 16, 17 units an

2874
01:20:19,671 --> 01:20:20,272
acre on seven acres or seven

2875
01:20:20,272 --> 01:20:21,273
and a half, that

2876
01:20:21,273 --> 01:20:21,440
s the 208

2877
01:20:21,440 --> 01:20:22,740
we

2878
01:20:22,740 --> 01:20:22,374
re talking about.

2879
01:20:22,374 --> 01:20:24,374
Yeah.

2880
01:20:24,543 --> 01:20:24,710
Sort of. But if you do the 12.

2881
01:20:24,710 --> 01:20:25,143
It

2882
01:20:25,143 --> 01:20:26,178
s.

2883
01:20:26,178 --> 01:20:26,445
Yeah, I see what you

2884
01:20:26,445 --> 01:20:27,212
re saying.

2885
01:20:27,212 --> 01:20:27,646
Sort of like the county

2886
01:20:27,646 --> 01:20:28,714
s

2887
01:20:28,714 --> 01:20:30,150
version of Performance

2888
01:20:30,150 --> 01:20:30,782
Residential, where you can sort

2889
01:20:30,782 --> 01:20:32,418
of that

2890
01:20:32,418 --> 01:20:33,252
s a really a question I

2891
01:20:33,252 --> 01:20:33,619
would ask to the city. I

2892
01:20:33,619 --> 01:20:35,389
d

2893
01:20:35,389 --> 01:20:36,823
never even thought about that

2894
01:20:36,823 --> 01:20:38,192
being being allowed or

2895
01:20:38,192 --> 01:20:39,727
possibility. I think. I thought

2896
01:20:39,727 --> 01:20:40,794
you could just do the the

2897
01:20:40,794 --> 01:20:41,128
density on the acreage you

2898
01:20:41,128 --> 01:20:41,729
re

2899
01:20:41,729 --> 01:20:43,729
developing.

2900
01:20:43,798 --> 01:20:44,310
You can. But by what we

2901
01:20:44,310 --> 01:20:44,832
re

2902
01:20:44,832 --> 01:20:45,633
approving, we

2903
01:20:45,633 --> 01:20:46,934
re approving it

2904
01:20:46,934 --> 01:20:49,700
to be able to be on that total

2905
01:20:49,700 --> 01:20:50,104
area, not just the seven and a

2906
01:20:50,104 --> 01:20:51,639
half acres.

2907
01:20:51,639 --> 01:20:53,709
True. But but you

2908
01:20:53,709 --> 01:20:54,543
d have to

2909
01:20:54,543 --> 01:20:55,277
that, if I

2910
01:20:55,277 --> 01:20:56,245
m not mistaken. I

2911
01:20:56,245 --> 01:20:58,548
mean, the question sort of

2912
01:20:58,548 --> 01:20:59,882
assumes that the building and

2913
01:20:59,882 --> 01:21:00,716
the parking lot are going to be

2914
01:21:00,716 --> 01:21:01,284
torn down and it

2915
01:21:01,284 --> 01:21:02,452
ll just be

2916
01:21:02,452 --> 01:21:03,553
vacant, but that

2917
01:21:03,553 --> 01:21:04,153
s there

2918
01:21:04,153 --> 01:21:05,588
s no

2919
01:21:05,588 --> 01:21:07,390
intent to tear the building

2920
01:21:07,390 --> 01:21:08,958
down. The parking lot was just

2921
01:21:08,958 --> 01:21:09,560
built. So we

2922
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:10,928
re talking about

2923
01:21:10,928 --> 01:21:11,395
developing the seven and a half

2924
01:21:11,395 --> 01:21:12,430
acres, and that

2925
01:21:12,430 --> 01:21:13,664
s it. And my

2926
01:21:13,664 --> 01:21:14,165
understanding in the city can

2927
01:21:14,165 --> 01:21:14,832
correct me if I

2928
01:21:14,832 --> 01:21:16,534
m wrong, that

2929
01:21:16,534 --> 01:21:17,100
the density would be based upon

2930
01:21:17,100 --> 01:21:19,100
the acreage you

2931
01:21:22,841 --> 01:21:24,810
re developing.

2932
01:21:24,810 --> 01:21:26,110
The density would be based on

2933
01:21:26,110 --> 01:21:26,478
the total acreage of the

2934
01:21:26,478 --> 01:21:27,247
property that

2935
01:21:27,247 --> 01:21:29,148
s included in the

2936
01:21:29,148 --> 01:21:30,650
cdm, whether that be the

2937
01:21:30,650 --> 01:21:30,850
parcels that are undeveloped or

2938
01:21:30,850 --> 01:21:32,285
if it

2939
01:21:32,285 --> 01:21:33,553
s including the office

2940
01:21:33,553 --> 01:21:35,922
space, which I believe was

2941
01:21:35,922 --> 01:21:37,958
alluded to as being a potential

2942
01:21:37,958 --> 01:21:38,425
commercial component of that.

2943
01:21:38,425 --> 01:21:40,294
Yes, that

2944
01:21:40,294 --> 01:21:40,494
s that is true, that

2945
01:21:40,494 --> 01:21:41,562
that

2946
01:21:41,562 --> 01:21:42,629
s true, that we would want

2947
01:21:42,629 --> 01:21:43,497
the opportunity to have the

2948
01:21:43,497 --> 01:21:44,366
commercial building.

2949
01:21:44,366 --> 01:21:44,499
As long as you tell me you

2950
01:21:44,499 --> 01:21:46,499
re

2951
01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:48,269
going to limit it to 17 times

2952
01:21:48,269 --> 01:21:49,972
7.5, I

2953
01:21:49,972 --> 01:21:50,138
m okay with that, but I

2954
01:21:50,138 --> 01:21:51,600
don

2955
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:51,240
t want it to come back to

2956
01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:53,750
bed. We

2957
01:21:53,750 --> 01:21:53,508
re doing 17 times 12.

2958
01:21:53,508 --> 01:21:54,910
Well, I

2959
01:21:54,910 --> 01:21:55,544
m not going to put any

2960
01:21:55,544 --> 01:21:57,790
limitation. I

2961
01:21:57,790 --> 01:21:59,140
m not going to.

2962
01:21:59,140 --> 01:21:59,215
We want to follow the code.

2963
01:21:59,215 --> 01:22:00,820
That

2964
01:22:00,820 --> 01:22:00,349
s it. Okay. And that

2965
01:22:00,349 --> 01:22:00,516
s all

2966
01:22:00,516 --> 01:22:01,450
we

2967
01:22:01,450 --> 01:22:03,553
re asking for is for that

2968
01:22:03,553 --> 01:22:05,722
property to follow the code.

2969
01:22:05,722 --> 01:22:07,257
Um, so if I misunderstood the

2970
01:22:07,257 --> 01:22:09,293
question or how the development

2971
01:22:09,293 --> 01:22:10,594
process would be evaluated,

2972
01:22:10,594 --> 01:22:10,928
then I apologize. But we

2973
01:22:10,928 --> 01:22:11,950
re

2974
01:22:11,950 --> 01:22:11,395
we

2975
01:22:11,395 --> 01:22:13,300
re we

2976
01:22:13,300 --> 01:22:15,430
re simply asking for

2977
01:22:16,467 --> 01:22:18,302
the prior density cap to be

2978
01:22:18,302 --> 01:22:21,140
removed from this site. The

2979
01:22:21,140 --> 01:22:22,341
opportunity to do cmu, if that

2980
01:22:22,341 --> 01:22:24,343
presents itself with the

2981
01:22:24,343 --> 01:22:25,778
development that my clients

2982
01:22:25,778 --> 01:22:27,980
think makes sense there and

2983
01:22:27,980 --> 01:22:30,817
will fit well and, um, you

2984
01:22:30,817 --> 01:22:31,751
know, meets the meets there,

2985
01:22:31,751 --> 01:22:34,120
what they would like to see

2986
01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:35,321
there. Uh, but whatever density

2987
01:22:35,321 --> 01:22:37,758
the city allows us to put

2988
01:22:37,758 --> 01:22:39,594
there, we do not want to limit

2989
01:22:39,594 --> 01:22:41,796
that. And nor do I think it

2990
01:22:41,796 --> 01:22:42,497
should be limited. I don

2991
01:22:42,497 --> 01:22:43,564
t what

2992
01:22:43,564 --> 01:22:46,401
would be the reason to limit

2993
01:22:46,401 --> 01:22:47,502
the density? There?

2994
01:22:47,502 --> 01:22:47,835
Well, I think what you

2995
01:22:47,835 --> 01:22:49,835
re

2996
01:22:50,372 --> 01:22:50,939
hearing from the from up here

2997
01:22:50,939 --> 01:22:51,873
is everybody

2998
01:22:51,873 --> 01:22:53,341
s expecting now

2999
01:22:53,341 --> 01:22:53,608
208 times 17 because it

3000
01:22:53,608 --> 01:22:54,744
s I

3001
01:22:54,744 --> 01:22:55,178
mean two. Yeah. Because that

3002
01:22:55,178 --> 01:22:57,178
s

3003
01:22:57,647 --> 01:22:58,147
seven and a half acres. But I,

3004
01:22:58,147 --> 01:22:59,150
I know if we

3005
01:22:59,150 --> 01:23:00,817
re approving it,

3006
01:23:00,817 --> 01:23:02,719
it is for the entire yellow

3007
01:23:02,719 --> 01:23:04,354
area. Correct. So but and you

3008
01:23:04,354 --> 01:23:05,489
can put that whole density on

3009
01:23:05,489 --> 01:23:05,655
your seven and a half acres.

3010
01:23:05,655 --> 01:23:06,456
It

3011
01:23:06,456 --> 01:23:06,756
s not like you couldn

3012
01:23:06,756 --> 01:23:06,923
t.

3013
01:23:06,923 --> 01:23:07,691
It

3014
01:23:07,691 --> 01:23:08,125
s you can go higher. I

3015
01:23:08,125 --> 01:23:09,626
m all

3016
01:23:09,626 --> 01:23:09,793
about height I like it I think

3017
01:23:09,793 --> 01:23:11,195
it

3018
01:23:11,195 --> 01:23:11,763
s great. I just want to be

3019
01:23:11,763 --> 01:23:12,330
clear on what we

3020
01:23:12,330 --> 01:23:13,898
re approving

3021
01:23:13,898 --> 01:23:14,900
and everyone else is approving

3022
01:23:14,900 --> 01:23:16,101
understanding it too.

3023
01:23:16,101 --> 01:23:16,234
Okay, I understand, and I

3024
01:23:16,234 --> 01:23:17,369
m

3025
01:23:17,369 --> 01:23:18,336
certainly not arguing with you,

3026
01:23:18,336 --> 01:23:18,470
anybody out there, but I

3027
01:23:18,470 --> 01:23:19,404
m

3028
01:23:19,404 --> 01:23:19,738
trying to understand what

3029
01:23:19,738 --> 01:23:21,707
s the

3030
01:23:21,707 --> 01:23:23,142
concern with putting density as

3031
01:23:23,142 --> 01:23:25,611
much density as you can on that

3032
01:23:25,611 --> 01:23:26,440
site under the code.

3033
01:23:26,440 --> 01:23:26,645
Where we

3034
01:23:26,645 --> 01:23:27,112
re at, I don

3035
01:23:27,112 --> 01:23:28,280
t have

3036
01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:29,951
any issue with the density

3037
01:23:29,951 --> 01:23:30,217
there, honestly. Yes, sir.

3038
01:23:30,217 --> 01:23:31,840
What? I

3039
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:31,484
m just all I

3040
01:23:31,484 --> 01:23:32,619
m saying

3041
01:23:32,619 --> 01:23:32,786
is for everybody understands

3042
01:23:32,786 --> 01:23:34,786
we

3043
01:23:34,822 --> 01:23:35,956
re not talking about 208. So

3044
01:23:35,956 --> 01:23:37,191
if everyone gets in their mind,

3045
01:23:37,191 --> 01:23:40,428
okay, we can probably deal with

3046
01:23:40,428 --> 01:23:41,662
that. It could be more than

3047
01:23:41,662 --> 01:23:42,229
208. It

3048
01:23:42,229 --> 01:23:42,530
s all I it

3049
01:23:42,530 --> 01:23:42,663
s all i

3050
01:23:42,663 --> 01:23:44,663
m

3051
01:23:44,799 --> 01:23:46,467
bringing up I think I think

3052
01:23:46,467 --> 01:23:48,470
density there is phenomenal I

3053
01:23:48,470 --> 01:23:49,710
do I know that the water sewer

3054
01:23:49,710 --> 01:23:49,505
is there. I know it

3055
01:23:49,505 --> 01:23:51,600
s the right

3056
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:52,541
place for it and I know the

3057
01:23:52,541 --> 01:23:52,708
height would be okay there. I

3058
01:23:52,708 --> 01:23:53,509
don

3059
01:23:53,509 --> 01:23:53,910
t this isn

3060
01:23:53,910 --> 01:23:55,177
t being

3061
01:23:55,177 --> 01:23:56,312
subdivided out as a single

3062
01:23:56,312 --> 01:23:56,479
parcel. Correct.

3063
01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:56,746
It

3064
01:23:56,746 --> 01:23:58,414
s it

3065
01:23:58,414 --> 01:23:58,581
s two parcels. Now.

3066
01:23:58,581 --> 01:24:00,550
It

3067
01:24:00,550 --> 01:24:01,951
s the, the out of the yellow

3068
01:24:01,951 --> 01:24:05,551
and the end of the yellow.

3069
01:24:05,623 --> 01:24:07,225
Uh, no, sir. This, um, this is

3070
01:24:07,225 --> 01:24:08,926
based upon the subdivision map

3071
01:24:08,926 --> 01:24:11,562
that was recorded in APRIL of

3072
01:24:11,562 --> 01:24:11,696
this year. The property I

3073
01:24:11,696 --> 01:24:12,864
m

3074
01:24:12,864 --> 01:24:14,833
just going to call it the the

3075
01:24:14,833 --> 01:24:17,535
Block, which is bordered by a

3076
01:24:17,535 --> 01:24:19,535
gallery park, stonecrop,

3077
01:24:20,372 --> 01:24:23,372
Chippenham on the bottom and

3078
01:24:23,509 --> 01:24:25,110
Dusty Miller Lane. That block

3079
01:24:25,110 --> 01:24:27,747
has been subdivided into three

3080
01:24:27,747 --> 01:24:30,150
tracks. Tract one, you can see

3081
01:24:30,150 --> 01:24:32,619
faintly, is tract tract c, one.

3082
01:24:32,619 --> 01:24:35,155
R one is roughly seven and a

3083
01:24:35,155 --> 01:24:36,924
half acres, roughly, uh. The

3084
01:24:36,924 --> 01:24:37,124
bottom track is tract three r

3085
01:24:37,124 --> 01:24:38,692
that

3086
01:24:38,692 --> 01:24:41,863
s seven and a half acres,

3087
01:24:41,863 --> 01:24:44,833
roughly. And then the track one

3088
01:24:44,833 --> 01:24:46,268
c, one r two in the corner.

3089
01:24:46,268 --> 01:24:46,868
That is not owned by my

3090
01:24:46,868 --> 01:24:47,336
clients, that

3091
01:24:47,336 --> 01:24:48,270
s owned by

3092
01:24:48,270 --> 01:24:48,437
Wilmington Health. And that

3093
01:24:48,437 --> 01:24:50,437
s

3094
01:24:51,206 --> 01:24:52,741
also roughly four point, I

3095
01:24:52,741 --> 01:24:54,944
think seven seven acres or

3096
01:24:54,944 --> 01:24:56,813
something like that. So of the

3097
01:24:56,813 --> 01:24:57,147
dotted yellow area, the 12

3098
01:24:57,147 --> 01:24:57,781
acres that

3099
01:24:57,781 --> 01:24:58,982
s under your

3100
01:24:58,982 --> 01:25:00,784
consideration this evening. It

3101
01:25:00,784 --> 01:25:00,918
is two separate tracks. It

3102
01:25:00,918 --> 01:25:02,850
s

3103
01:25:02,850 --> 01:25:04,850
two separate tracks.

3104
01:25:04,254 --> 01:25:06,791
What is the height limit on

3105
01:25:06,791 --> 01:25:07,825
buildings in this zoning? Is it

3106
01:25:07,825 --> 01:25:09,593
45?

3107
01:25:09,593 --> 01:25:11,729
I believe it is.

3108
01:25:11,729 --> 01:25:14,132
It would be 45 unless I chose

3109
01:25:14,132 --> 01:25:15,200
to do a step back and 96.

3110
01:25:15,200 --> 01:25:16,468
Yeah, unless you do the step

3111
01:25:16,468 --> 01:25:18,270
back completely. Okay.

3112
01:25:18,270 --> 01:25:20,773
MR. Collier, if I MAY.

3113
01:25:20,773 --> 01:25:23,900
Um, the 208 units was

3114
01:25:23,900 --> 01:25:26,900
calculated based on the full

3115
01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:27,714
12.26 acres. Yes. So they can

3116
01:25:27,714 --> 01:25:29,649
go again. They can go above the

3117
01:25:29,649 --> 01:25:31,840
208. If they do, the workforce

3118
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:33,487
housing component. But if they

3119
01:25:33,487 --> 01:25:34,922
do not do workforce housing 208

3120
01:25:34,922 --> 01:25:36,491
units is is calculated at the

3121
01:25:36,491 --> 01:25:37,458
17 units an acre for the full

3122
01:25:37,458 --> 01:25:38,926
parcel size.

3123
01:25:38,926 --> 01:25:40,294
Okay. Thank you. I take back

3124
01:25:40,294 --> 01:25:41,362
the last half hour of your life

3125
01:25:41,362 --> 01:25:42,330
while I talked about something

3126
01:25:42,330 --> 01:25:43,531
that made no difference.

3127
01:25:43,531 --> 01:25:44,833
And if I if I seem too

3128
01:25:44,833 --> 01:25:45,223
argumentative, I do apologize,

3129
01:25:45,223 --> 01:25:46,670
sir.

3130
01:25:46,670 --> 01:25:48,670
You never argument.

3131
01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:51,574
No, I, uh, the staff report, we

3132
01:25:51,574 --> 01:25:52,809
understand, is correct on the

3133
01:25:52,809 --> 01:25:54,770
unit count, but that was a

3134
01:25:54,770 --> 01:25:54,210
staff calculation, and we

3135
01:25:54,210 --> 01:25:55,378
re

3136
01:25:55,378 --> 01:25:56,179
fine. No worries. Yeah.

3137
01:25:56,179 --> 01:25:58,281
Thank you very much.

3138
01:25:58,281 --> 01:25:59,549
Thank you.

3139
01:25:59,549 --> 01:26:00,784
You good?

3140
01:26:00,784 --> 01:26:02,784
Yes, sir.

3141
01:26:05,789 --> 01:26:07,789
Commissioner Pollack.

3142
01:26:07,792 --> 01:26:10,528
My question is actually more

3143
01:26:10,528 --> 01:26:12,928
towards Commissioner Collier if

3144
01:26:12,931 --> 01:26:14,833
which is. Yeah, I want because

3145
01:26:14,833 --> 01:26:17,302
listening to your dialogue with

3146
01:26:17,302 --> 01:26:18,837
MR. Nichols is. That was kind

3147
01:26:18,837 --> 01:26:21,600
of what I was looking to to

3148
01:26:21,600 --> 01:26:21,139
hear a little bit of and and

3149
01:26:21,139 --> 01:26:23,108
i

3150
01:26:23,108 --> 01:26:26,120
m wondering is, is it

3151
01:26:26,120 --> 01:26:28,882
possible and mad if you could

3152
01:26:28,882 --> 01:26:29,516
go back a couple screens? Well

3153
01:26:29,516 --> 01:26:30,684
right there.

3154
01:26:30,684 --> 01:26:32,684
Yes, sir.

3155
01:26:33,870 --> 01:26:35,122
Is it possible because I

3156
01:26:35,122 --> 01:26:37,522
understand your point. You

3157
01:26:38,959 --> 01:26:39,126
know, in spades that says

3158
01:26:39,126 --> 01:26:41,610
you

3159
01:26:41,610 --> 01:26:41,463
re limiting the density to

3160
01:26:41,463 --> 01:26:42,931
I mean, it

3161
01:26:42,931 --> 01:26:44,767
s almost like if you

3162
01:26:44,767 --> 01:26:44,900
draw an artificial line and

3163
01:26:44,900 --> 01:26:45,134
I

3164
01:26:45,134 --> 01:26:45,567
m, I don

3165
01:26:45,567 --> 01:26:46,802
t even know what

3166
01:26:46,802 --> 01:26:47,360
that street is there, but it

3167
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:48,671
s

3168
01:26:48,671 --> 01:26:50,472
the where it says a future

3169
01:26:50,472 --> 01:26:53,900
development. Is there a way to

3170
01:26:53,900 --> 01:26:56,112
to put a condition in this

3171
01:26:56,112 --> 01:26:58,781
approval that cordons off that

3172
01:26:58,781 --> 01:26:59,650
future development block as the

3173
01:26:59,650 --> 01:26:59,783
density? Is that what you

3174
01:26:59,783 --> 01:27:00,251
re

3175
01:27:00,251 --> 01:27:00,651
looking for?

3176
01:27:00,651 --> 01:27:01,685
Well, that

3177
01:27:01,685 --> 01:27:03,154
s what I was asking

3178
01:27:03,154 --> 01:27:03,687
originally, because I thought

3179
01:27:03,687 --> 01:27:04,788
that I didn

3180
01:27:04,788 --> 01:27:06,223
t do the math well

3181
01:27:06,223 --> 01:27:08,593
enough. In my head. I was

3182
01:27:08,593 --> 01:27:11,593
thinking that that area times

3183
01:27:11,763 --> 01:27:12,997
17 was 208, and then the other

3184
01:27:12,997 --> 01:27:14,232
corner up where the the

3185
01:27:14,232 --> 01:27:14,399
Wilmington Health Building is,

3186
01:27:14,399 --> 01:27:15,700
it

3187
01:27:15,700 --> 01:27:18,270
s still in this yellow. The

3188
01:27:18,270 --> 01:27:20,506
other 4.8 acres. I did a bad

3189
01:27:20,506 --> 01:27:21,741
math calculation. So the 208 is

3190
01:27:21,741 --> 01:27:23,509
the total number they could put

3191
01:27:23,509 --> 01:27:25,110
in on this yellow block period.

3192
01:27:25,110 --> 01:27:25,945
Period. Yeah.

3193
01:27:25,945 --> 01:27:26,646
Okay. Unless I

3194
01:27:26,646 --> 01:27:27,547
m misreading

3195
01:27:27,547 --> 01:27:29,349
something now.

3196
01:27:29,349 --> 01:27:31,349
Nope.

3197
01:27:31,818 --> 01:27:32,853
Um, you know, Matt, I guess the

3198
01:27:32,853 --> 01:27:33,353
only question I would really

3199
01:27:33,353 --> 01:27:34,956
have is it

3200
01:27:34,956 --> 01:27:37,356
s been asked 2 or 3

3201
01:27:37,892 --> 01:27:39,961
times. Here is, you know, at

3202
01:27:39,961 --> 01:27:41,830
sometime at some pieces along

3203
01:27:41,830 --> 01:27:43,665
this discussion. This has felt

3204
01:27:43,665 --> 01:27:45,267
like a discussion for a general

3205
01:27:45,267 --> 01:27:46,301
rezoning versus a conditional

3206
01:27:46,301 --> 01:27:46,668
rezoning. I mean, it

3207
01:27:46,668 --> 01:27:48,137
s kind of

3208
01:27:48,137 --> 01:27:51,600
just, just just the way the

3209
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:52,776
discussion has gone on. Um, but

3210
01:27:52,776 --> 01:27:54,344
clearly understand the the

3211
01:27:54,344 --> 01:27:54,478
conditional piece. So I guess

3212
01:27:54,478 --> 01:27:55,278
I

3213
01:27:55,278 --> 01:27:56,213
m, I guess I

3214
01:27:56,213 --> 01:27:57,648
m okay with

3215
01:27:57,648 --> 01:27:59,516
directionally because obviously

3216
01:27:59,516 --> 01:28:01,180
your clients have demonstrated

3217
01:28:01,180 --> 01:28:03,320
over the years the quality and

3218
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:03,854
the, you know, the, the

3219
01:28:03,854 --> 01:28:04,354
building. So it

3220
01:28:04,354 --> 01:28:04,688
s just I

3221
01:28:04,688 --> 01:28:06,490
ve

3222
01:28:06,490 --> 01:28:08,626
just it was a little confusing

3223
01:28:08,626 --> 01:28:10,329
to me as I was trying to

3224
01:28:10,329 --> 01:28:13,298
visualize what what you were

3225
01:28:13,298 --> 01:28:14,232
asking for. Um, around this

3226
01:28:14,232 --> 01:28:15,301
because this is the way the

3227
01:28:15,301 --> 01:28:15,634
boxes are drawn. But I

3228
01:28:15,634 --> 01:28:16,340
m going

3229
01:28:16,340 --> 01:28:16,702
to I

3230
01:28:16,702 --> 01:28:17,870
m going to make an

3231
01:28:17,870 --> 01:28:19,438
assumptive statement and then

3232
01:28:19,438 --> 01:28:19,605
please validate or tell me I

3233
01:28:19,605 --> 01:28:21,730
m

3234
01:28:21,730 --> 01:28:22,742
wrong. The reason this is drawn

3235
01:28:22,742 --> 01:28:24,443
this way is because the

3236
01:28:24,443 --> 01:28:26,513
property, the upper right

3237
01:28:26,513 --> 01:28:26,714
corner, upper right quadrant.

3238
01:28:26,714 --> 01:28:27,514
That

3239
01:28:27,514 --> 01:28:28,782
s because that property

3240
01:28:28,782 --> 01:28:28,983
has been sold.

3241
01:28:28,983 --> 01:28:29,850
That

3242
01:28:29,850 --> 01:28:31,619
s correct. My my.

3243
01:28:31,619 --> 01:28:32,653
Saw has no no bearing here.

3244
01:28:32,653 --> 01:28:34,550
We well they don

3245
01:28:34,550 --> 01:28:34,489
t own it so.

3246
01:28:34,489 --> 01:28:35,723
Yeah.

3247
01:28:35,723 --> 01:28:35,923
Exactly. Exactly. Right. So

3248
01:28:35,923 --> 01:28:36,157
that

3249
01:28:36,157 --> 01:28:36,724
s why it

3250
01:28:36,724 --> 01:28:36,891
s drawn the way

3251
01:28:36,891 --> 01:28:38,891
it

3252
01:28:41,290 --> 01:28:43,531
s drawn. So. Right. Okay.

3253
01:28:43,531 --> 01:28:45,201
Um, and I appreciate my, the,

3254
01:28:45,201 --> 01:28:46,435
my fellow commissioners. Great.

3255
01:28:46,435 --> 01:28:46,802
You know, great questions for

3256
01:28:46,802 --> 01:28:47,670
me as I

3257
01:28:47,670 --> 01:28:48,771
ve been trying to

3258
01:28:48,771 --> 01:28:50,540
listen and get my head around

3259
01:28:50,540 --> 01:28:50,907
this thing. So, um, MR.

3260
01:28:50,907 --> 01:28:52,876
CHAIRMAN, I

3261
01:28:52,876 --> 01:28:54,878
m good for now.

3262
01:28:54,878 --> 01:28:59,780
So this my last chance to do

3263
01:29:02,553 --> 01:29:03,121
this. So. Please go ahead.

3264
01:29:03,121 --> 01:29:03,655
Matt.

3265
01:29:03,655 --> 01:29:03,788
Yes, sir.

3266
01:29:03,788 --> 01:29:05,457
I

3267
01:29:05,457 --> 01:29:08,259
m going back. When you first

3268
01:29:08,259 --> 01:29:09,561
started this plan, um, you

3269
01:29:09,561 --> 01:29:11,763
mentioned that the idea was to

3270
01:29:11,763 --> 01:29:13,465
get rid of the 1300. Whatever,

3271
01:29:13,465 --> 01:29:13,665
cap. Completely. And that

3272
01:29:13,665 --> 01:29:14,700
didn

3273
01:29:14,700 --> 01:29:16,340
t work. I mean, it was too

3274
01:29:16,340 --> 01:29:16,568
much other stuff to do that,

3275
01:29:16,568 --> 01:29:17,636
right? That

3276
01:29:17,636 --> 01:29:19,706
s correct. So this

3277
01:29:19,706 --> 01:29:20,807
effort tonight is to still get

3278
01:29:20,807 --> 01:29:21,341
to the where you want to be,

3279
01:29:21,341 --> 01:29:23,341
but it

3280
01:29:23,543 --> 01:29:26,460
s you are not able to

3281
01:29:26,460 --> 01:29:26,880
eliminate the 1300 cap.

3282
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:28,215
Correct.

3283
01:29:28,215 --> 01:29:28,949
Uh, we we can

3284
01:29:28,949 --> 01:29:29,683
t. That

3285
01:29:29,683 --> 01:29:30,250
s

3286
01:29:30,250 --> 01:29:31,785
something we can

3287
01:29:31,785 --> 01:29:33,785
t do without

3288
01:29:34,521 --> 01:29:34,655
rezoning all 302 acres is what

3289
01:29:34,655 --> 01:29:35,222
I

3290
01:29:35,222 --> 01:29:35,423
m told. So we

3291
01:29:35,423 --> 01:29:35,790
re we

3292
01:29:35,790 --> 01:29:36,725
re just

3293
01:29:36,725 --> 01:29:36,958
trying to do what we can with

3294
01:29:36,958 --> 01:29:38,326
what we.

3295
01:29:38,326 --> 01:29:38,860
Have left. So the cap is still

3296
01:29:38,860 --> 01:29:39,161
there?

3297
01:29:39,161 --> 01:29:39,528
Yes.

3298
01:29:39,528 --> 01:29:41,528
And that

3299
01:29:41,563 --> 01:29:42,131
s across this property

3300
01:29:42,131 --> 01:29:42,531
currently.

3301
01:29:42,531 --> 01:29:43,632
Yes.

3302
01:29:43,632 --> 01:29:44,333
Okay. And so you

3303
01:29:44,333 --> 01:29:46,135
re not asking

3304
01:29:46,135 --> 01:29:48,300
us to do anything to change

3305
01:29:48,300 --> 01:29:48,304
that cap. Yeah. But you

3306
01:29:48,304 --> 01:29:50,304
re

3307
01:29:53,911 --> 01:29:55,245
going to you want to put 204 or

3308
01:29:55,245 --> 01:29:57,147
whatever the number MAY be,

3309
01:29:57,147 --> 01:29:59,160
which raises the cap or raises

3310
01:29:59,160 --> 01:30:00,384
the level above the cap. Right.

3311
01:30:00,384 --> 01:30:03,200
Well, let me try to explain it

3312
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:03,254
this way. Um, and I if I

3313
01:30:03,254 --> 01:30:04,555
m not

3314
01:30:04,555 --> 01:30:07,625
doing a good job of explaining

3315
01:30:07,625 --> 01:30:10,628
this, I apologize. But if you

3316
01:30:10,628 --> 01:30:12,731
let me go back to, um.

3317
01:30:12,731 --> 01:30:15,731
Actually, MISS Hopkins had a

3318
01:30:18,710 --> 01:30:20,974
good slide that had the 2013 cd

3319
01:30:20,974 --> 01:30:22,308
approval, and then it had, like

3320
01:30:22,308 --> 01:30:23,900
a piece of a puzzle. It had the

3321
01:30:23,900 --> 01:30:25,900
12 acres we

3322
01:30:25,378 --> 01:30:26,947
re talking about.

3323
01:30:26,947 --> 01:30:27,581
Um, well, that

3324
01:30:27,581 --> 01:30:28,548
s being pulled

3325
01:30:28,548 --> 01:30:28,750
up essentially what we

3326
01:30:28,750 --> 01:30:30,451
re

3327
01:30:30,451 --> 01:30:32,620
asking for with regard to the

3328
01:30:32,620 --> 01:30:35,620
density is we understand that

3329
01:30:35,991 --> 01:30:37,892
when the 302 acres was rezoned,

3330
01:30:37,892 --> 01:30:40,280
there was a density cap on the

3331
01:30:40,280 --> 01:30:40,328
entire puzzle or piece. We

3332
01:30:40,328 --> 01:30:42,328
re

3333
01:30:42,731 --> 01:30:46,269
asking for that piece to be

3334
01:30:46,269 --> 01:30:49,172
lifted out of that. And be

3335
01:30:49,172 --> 01:30:51,572
considered independent of that

3336
01:30:52,509 --> 01:30:54,578
cap for purposes of development

3337
01:30:54,578 --> 01:30:56,613
under the code as allowed

3338
01:30:56,613 --> 01:30:56,847
today. But I would keep in mind

3339
01:30:56,847 --> 01:30:57,981
that we

3340
01:30:57,981 --> 01:30:59,183
re putting in

3341
01:30:59,183 --> 01:30:59,316
additional conditions. So we

3342
01:30:59,316 --> 01:31:00,885
re

3343
01:31:00,885 --> 01:31:02,887
not just asking for a general

3344
01:31:02,887 --> 01:31:05,757
zoning zoning. We do have a

3345
01:31:05,757 --> 01:31:07,426
number of conditions that are

3346
01:31:07,426 --> 01:31:08,727
completely agreeable on this

3347
01:31:08,727 --> 01:31:11,130
site. I can go through each of

3348
01:31:11,130 --> 01:31:12,564
those there in your packet. And

3349
01:31:12,564 --> 01:31:14,233
most, most of those are

3350
01:31:14,233 --> 01:31:16,200
architectural related. And I

3351
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:17,436
think they probably exceed what

3352
01:31:17,436 --> 01:31:19,710
was the specificity.

3353
01:31:19,710 --> 01:31:20,406
Let me stop you. I understand

3354
01:31:20,406 --> 01:31:20,706
completely. Okay. Like Richard,

3355
01:31:20,706 --> 01:31:21,875
I think it

3356
01:31:21,875 --> 01:31:22,242
s a great plan. It

3357
01:31:22,242 --> 01:31:22,476
s

3358
01:31:22,476 --> 01:31:24,344
how we

3359
01:31:24,344 --> 01:31:24,578
re getting there is and

3360
01:31:24,578 --> 01:31:24,978
I don

3361
01:31:24,978 --> 01:31:25,145
t want to say it

3362
01:31:25,145 --> 01:31:26,547
s

3363
01:31:26,547 --> 01:31:27,448
bothering me, but it

3364
01:31:27,448 --> 01:31:28,816
s it seems

3365
01:31:28,816 --> 01:31:30,952
to me to be staring us in the

3366
01:31:30,952 --> 01:31:33,254
face. The cap is 1300 something.

3367
01:31:33,254 --> 01:31:35,230
You want to put the potential

3368
01:31:35,230 --> 01:31:36,491
to build more. Whatever it is

3369
01:31:36,491 --> 01:31:38,493
that takes you above the cap.

3370
01:31:38,493 --> 01:31:40,296
You tried to get rid of or

3371
01:31:40,296 --> 01:31:42,965
tried to attempted to deal with

3372
01:31:42,965 --> 01:31:44,900
the city about getting rid of

3373
01:31:44,900 --> 01:31:45,680
the cap. Um, but you said it

3374
01:31:45,680 --> 01:31:45,868
s

3375
01:31:45,868 --> 01:31:46,235
too much work. We don

3376
01:31:46,235 --> 01:31:46,803
t want to

3377
01:31:46,803 --> 01:31:47,236
go that way. So we

3378
01:31:47,236 --> 01:31:49,236
re going to

3379
01:31:49,606 --> 01:31:49,873
try this. And it just seems to

3380
01:31:49,873 --> 01:31:51,708
me we

3381
01:31:51,708 --> 01:31:53,243
re making an end run to

3382
01:31:53,243 --> 01:31:54,678
get where you want to be. And I

3383
01:31:54,678 --> 01:31:55,545
understand you want to go the

3384
01:31:55,545 --> 01:31:55,879
best way, and I don

3385
01:31:55,879 --> 01:31:56,647
t have a

3386
01:31:56,647 --> 01:31:56,781
problem getting there. It

3387
01:31:56,781 --> 01:31:57,348
s

3388
01:31:57,348 --> 01:31:58,160
just how you

3389
01:31:58,160 --> 01:31:59,751
re attempting to

3390
01:31:59,751 --> 01:32:00,551
get there. Now, I

3391
01:32:00,551 --> 01:32:02,120
m looking at

3392
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:02,287
it again. The the sheet that

3393
01:32:02,287 --> 01:32:03,588
we

3394
01:32:03,588 --> 01:32:04,622
ve got. And I brought up the

3395
01:32:04,622 --> 01:32:05,791
first time this came around

3396
01:32:05,791 --> 01:32:07,926
with this workforce housing.

3397
01:32:07,926 --> 01:32:10,128
And I mean, it says, you know,

3398
01:32:10,128 --> 01:32:13,128
the cap on residential density,

3399
01:32:13,532 --> 01:32:15,435
which is the 1300 maybe

3400
01:32:15,435 --> 01:32:16,836
eliminated by the 10%

3401
01:32:16,836 --> 01:32:17,370
workforce. And I

3402
01:32:17,370 --> 01:32:19,370
m wondering,

3403
01:32:19,373 --> 01:32:21,208
is that what the city threw out

3404
01:32:21,208 --> 01:32:24,211
to you to say instead of doing

3405
01:32:24,211 --> 01:32:28,181
the, you know, you can you can

3406
01:32:28,181 --> 01:32:28,849
raise this cap by doing this?

3407
01:32:28,849 --> 01:32:29,830
Okay.

3408
01:32:29,830 --> 01:32:29,650
And I

3409
01:32:29,650 --> 01:32:30,284
m sorry to interrupt.

3410
01:32:30,284 --> 01:32:32,120
No, no, no.

3411
01:32:32,120 --> 01:32:33,688
But I do want to comment. This

3412
01:32:33,688 --> 01:32:37,888
is not an end around in any

3413
01:32:39,270 --> 01:32:41,297
way. Um, we parcels have been

3414
01:32:41,297 --> 01:32:41,563
sold out there, uh, such that

3415
01:32:41,563 --> 01:32:43,499
we don

3416
01:32:43,499 --> 01:32:45,601
t have ownership to

3417
01:32:45,601 --> 01:32:47,903
submit a rezoning application

3418
01:32:47,903 --> 01:32:50,407
for all the property. Like my.

3419
01:32:50,407 --> 01:32:52,760
In 2013, my clients, my client

3420
01:32:52,760 --> 01:32:53,844
owned all of it. It was all

3421
01:32:53,844 --> 01:32:56,213
owned by Cameron Properties.

3422
01:32:56,213 --> 01:32:57,348
All 302 acres. So we could

3423
01:32:57,348 --> 01:32:58,816
submit the rezoning

3424
01:32:58,816 --> 01:32:59,851
application. We can

3425
01:32:59,851 --> 01:33:01,385
t submit a

3426
01:33:01,385 --> 01:33:01,786
rezoning application. It

3427
01:33:01,786 --> 01:33:02,530
s not

3428
01:33:02,530 --> 01:33:02,687
that it

3429
01:33:02,687 --> 01:33:03,254
s not that we

3430
01:33:03,254 --> 01:33:03,588
re we

3431
01:33:03,588 --> 01:33:04,889
re

3432
01:33:04,889 --> 01:33:06,525
shying away from hard work and

3433
01:33:06,525 --> 01:33:09,695
that sort of thing. We would

3434
01:33:09,695 --> 01:33:12,465
have to go and get I understand

3435
01:33:12,465 --> 01:33:13,900
everybody out there. Signature

3436
01:33:13,900 --> 01:33:14,901
on it. I don

3437
01:33:14,901 --> 01:33:16,536
t know if they got

3438
01:33:16,536 --> 01:33:16,736
to talk to their lenders.

3439
01:33:16,736 --> 01:33:17,737
There

3440
01:33:17,737 --> 01:33:17,904
s loans out there we

3441
01:33:17,904 --> 01:33:19,904
don

3442
01:33:20,173 --> 01:33:21,608
t know. Um, but in any

3443
01:33:21,608 --> 01:33:23,143
event. So this is definitely

3444
01:33:23,143 --> 01:33:23,410
not an end around all we

3445
01:33:23,410 --> 01:33:25,410
re

3446
01:33:26,180 --> 01:33:27,582
trying to do. And it boils down

3447
01:33:27,582 --> 01:33:29,918
to sort of your right to

3448
01:33:29,918 --> 01:33:31,853
petition the government, which

3449
01:33:31,853 --> 01:33:32,921
we all talk about in civics

3450
01:33:32,921 --> 01:33:33,880
class and that sort of thing.

3451
01:33:33,880 --> 01:33:35,880
We

3452
01:33:35,190 --> 01:33:36,691
re trying to get in front of

3453
01:33:36,691 --> 01:33:37,926
this commission and ultimately

3454
01:33:37,926 --> 01:33:39,795
get in front of city Council

3455
01:33:39,795 --> 01:33:41,300
and say, could you please look

3456
01:33:41,300 --> 01:33:43,600
back at that condition you did

3457
01:33:43,600 --> 01:33:46,436
in 2013? Does it make sense

3458
01:33:46,436 --> 01:33:46,903
today? If you think it does,

3459
01:33:46,903 --> 01:33:48,738
then we

3460
01:33:48,738 --> 01:33:49,606
ll go home. If you

3461
01:33:49,606 --> 01:33:50,700
think that it doesn

3462
01:33:50,700 --> 01:33:52,700
t make

3463
01:33:53,243 --> 01:33:54,545
sense in 2026 to limit

3464
01:33:54,545 --> 01:33:57,545
everything you see there in

3465
01:33:58,215 --> 01:34:00,615
blue to 116 residential units,

3466
01:34:01,186 --> 01:34:02,621
please just lift the cap from

3467
01:34:02,621 --> 01:34:03,880
what we have left. That

3468
01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:03,255
s all

3469
01:34:03,255 --> 01:34:04,389
we

3470
01:34:04,389 --> 01:34:04,923
re asking. And we

3471
01:34:04,923 --> 01:34:06,859
re going

3472
01:34:06,859 --> 01:34:07,559
to follow everything in your

3473
01:34:07,559 --> 01:34:08,393
code. We

3474
01:34:08,393 --> 01:34:10,620
re not asking for any

3475
01:34:10,620 --> 01:34:11,931
special treatment. And on top

3476
01:34:11,931 --> 01:34:14,700
of that, put all these

3477
01:34:14,700 --> 01:34:16,270
different conditions. We are

3478
01:34:16,270 --> 01:34:18,839
agreeable to, which I think

3479
01:34:18,839 --> 01:34:20,841
should be noted, which are all

3480
01:34:20,841 --> 01:34:21,508
the.

3481
01:34:21,508 --> 01:34:21,709
Um.

3482
01:34:21,709 --> 01:34:23,709
They

3483
01:34:24,145 --> 01:34:24,311
re in your report. So

3484
01:34:24,311 --> 01:34:25,946
it

3485
01:34:25,946 --> 01:34:27,982
ll go above and beyond your

3486
01:34:27,982 --> 01:34:28,182
oh eye ordinance because we

3487
01:34:28,182 --> 01:34:30,182
re

3488
01:34:30,718 --> 01:34:31,619
going to, um, there

3489
01:34:31,619 --> 01:34:33,619
s 12 of

3490
01:34:33,722 --> 01:34:34,556
them. Where we

3491
01:34:34,556 --> 01:34:35,858
ve agreed that

3492
01:34:35,858 --> 01:34:36,258
additional, um, we

3493
01:34:36,258 --> 01:34:37,393
re going to

3494
01:34:37,393 --> 01:34:39,195
follow the architectural

3495
01:34:39,195 --> 01:34:39,362
consistency of Berkeley West.

3496
01:34:39,362 --> 01:34:41,362
We

3497
01:34:42,650 --> 01:34:42,665
re going to do the Tia

3498
01:34:42,665 --> 01:34:43,266
updates. We

3499
01:34:43,266 --> 01:34:44,600
re not going to do

3500
01:34:44,600 --> 01:34:45,535
linear strip retail

3501
01:34:45,535 --> 01:34:46,350
development. We

3502
01:34:46,350 --> 01:34:47,203
re going to put

3503
01:34:47,203 --> 01:34:48,772
the off street parking behind

3504
01:34:48,772 --> 01:34:49,806
the buildings. Unless we do the

3505
01:34:49,806 --> 01:34:51,750
traffic circle or the

3506
01:34:51,750 --> 01:34:52,910
roundabout, which looks great

3507
01:34:52,910 --> 01:34:53,978
out there. Um, we

3508
01:34:53,978 --> 01:34:55,747
re going to

3509
01:34:55,747 --> 01:34:57,916
modify the setbacks to be

3510
01:34:57,916 --> 01:35:00,180
consistent with the rest of the

3511
01:35:00,180 --> 01:35:00,351
development. And then we

3512
01:35:00,351 --> 01:35:01,887
ve got

3513
01:35:01,887 --> 01:35:04,550
all internal street facing

3514
01:35:04,550 --> 01:35:05,557
facades on Gallery Park and

3515
01:35:05,557 --> 01:35:06,992
Stonecrop and include a minimum

3516
01:35:06,992 --> 01:35:09,392
ground floor fenestration of

3517
01:35:10,363 --> 01:35:10,597
30% for office, 15. This stuff

3518
01:35:10,597 --> 01:35:11,598
I don

3519
01:35:11,598 --> 01:35:13,433
t really understand. An

3520
01:35:13,433 --> 01:35:13,600
architect wrote this, but what

3521
01:35:13,600 --> 01:35:14,534
it

3522
01:35:14,534 --> 01:35:14,901
s going to, what it

3523
01:35:14,901 --> 01:35:15,569
s going

3524
01:35:15,569 --> 01:35:16,169
to and I

3525
01:35:16,169 --> 01:35:16,536
m gonna I

3526
01:35:16,536 --> 01:35:18,172
m going to

3527
01:35:18,172 --> 01:35:20,974
look to MR. Adams to explain

3528
01:35:20,974 --> 01:35:21,942
the administration. But we but

3529
01:35:21,942 --> 01:35:22,750
what I understand is that

3530
01:35:22,750 --> 01:35:23,677
s

3531
01:35:23,677 --> 01:35:25,813
going to assure you that this

3532
01:35:25,813 --> 01:35:30,130
is not going to be your sort

3533
01:35:30,180 --> 01:35:31,620
of, you know, 1990s strip mall

3534
01:35:31,620 --> 01:35:32,854
in the middle of Berkeley West.

3535
01:35:32,854 --> 01:35:33,822
And it would never happen

3536
01:35:33,822 --> 01:35:34,590
anyway. But we

3537
01:35:34,590 --> 01:35:35,624
re glad to put

3538
01:35:35,624 --> 01:35:35,791
that into the condition that

3539
01:35:35,791 --> 01:35:37,226
you

3540
01:35:37,226 --> 01:35:38,594
re going to have very high

3541
01:35:38,594 --> 01:35:38,861
quality development out there

3542
01:35:38,861 --> 01:35:40,196
on what

3543
01:35:40,196 --> 01:35:42,596
s remaining this seven

3544
01:35:42,898 --> 01:35:45,202
and a half acres. So again, all

3545
01:35:45,202 --> 01:35:46,503
this came about because we

3546
01:35:46,503 --> 01:35:48,305
think that the density

3547
01:35:48,305 --> 01:35:50,674
limitation needs to get

3548
01:35:50,674 --> 01:35:52,376
revisited. And this is the way

3549
01:35:52,376 --> 01:35:55,146
that I think the only way we

3550
01:35:55,146 --> 01:35:56,948
can reasonably do it is to come

3551
01:35:56,948 --> 01:35:58,490
in and ask that this be taken

3552
01:35:58,490 --> 01:35:58,616
out. And we

3553
01:35:58,616 --> 01:35:59,160
re glad. We

3554
01:35:59,160 --> 01:36:00,510
re glad

3555
01:36:00,510 --> 01:36:02,210
to do everything else out

3556
01:36:02,210 --> 01:36:05,658
there, but we just want to be,

3557
01:36:05,658 --> 01:36:06,859
uh, evaluated, treated going

3558
01:36:06,859 --> 01:36:07,793
forward on that property, just

3559
01:36:07,793 --> 01:36:08,795
like you would any other

3560
01:36:08,795 --> 01:36:10,496
property subject to all the

3561
01:36:10,496 --> 01:36:12,131
other conditions. And if we can

3562
01:36:12,131 --> 01:36:12,498
put more density out there, we

3563
01:36:12,498 --> 01:36:13,666
think that

3564
01:36:13,666 --> 01:36:13,833
s great. I think

3565
01:36:13,833 --> 01:36:15,335
it

3566
01:36:15,335 --> 01:36:18,906
s a great place to put more

3567
01:36:18,906 --> 01:36:20,708
density. And again, no extra

3568
01:36:20,708 --> 01:36:22,143
density whatever the code would

3569
01:36:22,143 --> 01:36:23,578
allow. And the code has a lot

3570
01:36:23,578 --> 01:36:24,846
of stringent provisions in

3571
01:36:24,846 --> 01:36:26,647
there on your density and your

3572
01:36:26,647 --> 01:36:28,820
cdm requirements. If we could

3573
01:36:28,820 --> 01:36:28,316
meet it, please let us do it.

3574
01:36:28,316 --> 01:36:28,950
And we

3575
01:36:28,950 --> 01:36:30,451
re going to meet all

3576
01:36:30,451 --> 01:36:31,653
these other architectural

3577
01:36:31,653 --> 01:36:31,953
requirements. And that

3578
01:36:31,953 --> 01:36:33,953
s what

3579
01:36:34,923 --> 01:36:35,190
it boils down to. So I, I hope

3580
01:36:35,190 --> 01:36:35,858
I didn

3581
01:36:35,858 --> 01:36:37,293
t make it more

3582
01:36:37,293 --> 01:36:37,493
confusing, MR. Woodruff, but

3583
01:36:37,493 --> 01:36:39,950
that

3584
01:36:39,950 --> 01:36:40,463
s not. Yeah, but this is

3585
01:36:40,463 --> 01:36:40,630
not an end around in any way.

3586
01:36:40,630 --> 01:36:41,498
We

3587
01:36:41,498 --> 01:36:42,332
re not trying to I

3588
01:36:42,332 --> 01:36:43,733
m not get

3589
01:36:43,733 --> 01:36:45,669
get around the.

3590
01:36:45,669 --> 01:36:45,802
Accusing you of end around what

3591
01:36:45,802 --> 01:36:46,436
I

3592
01:36:46,436 --> 01:36:47,370
m saying is you

3593
01:36:47,370 --> 01:36:48,105
re doing a

3594
01:36:48,105 --> 01:36:49,206
different method than you

3595
01:36:49,206 --> 01:36:50,541
thought you were going to do in

3596
01:36:50,541 --> 01:36:50,974
the beginning. And I

3597
01:36:50,974 --> 01:36:52,974
m

3598
01:36:53,143 --> 01:36:55,413
questioning just simply, is

3599
01:36:55,413 --> 01:36:58,116
this what we can do to just

3600
01:36:58,116 --> 01:36:59,885
close our eyes to that 1300 cap

3601
01:36:59,885 --> 01:37:01,687
and say, you now can go out

3602
01:37:01,687 --> 01:37:03,255
there and put another 200 and

3603
01:37:03,255 --> 01:37:04,723
some houses or units.

3604
01:37:04,723 --> 01:37:04,890
On it. So I understand, but

3605
01:37:04,890 --> 01:37:05,190
we

3606
01:37:05,190 --> 01:37:05,357
re not, we

3607
01:37:05,357 --> 01:37:05,524
re we

3608
01:37:05,524 --> 01:37:06,759
re

3609
01:37:06,759 --> 01:37:07,560
certainly not asking anyone to

3610
01:37:07,560 --> 01:37:07,693
close their eyes to it. We

3611
01:37:07,693 --> 01:37:09,562
re

3612
01:37:09,562 --> 01:37:11,732
asking you to look at it

3613
01:37:11,732 --> 01:37:12,633
plainly on its paper and just

3614
01:37:12,633 --> 01:37:12,966
tell us if you think it

3615
01:37:12,966 --> 01:37:14,100
s still

3616
01:37:14,100 --> 01:37:16,403
reasonable to have that cap

3617
01:37:16,403 --> 01:37:17,771
there in 26, 20, 26. And we

3618
01:37:17,771 --> 01:37:18,500
say, absolutely not. There

3619
01:37:18,500 --> 01:37:19,473
s no

3620
01:37:19,473 --> 01:37:21,142
reason to have that density cap

3621
01:37:21,142 --> 01:37:21,275
on that property. And that

3622
01:37:21,275 --> 01:37:21,509
s

3623
01:37:21,509 --> 01:37:22,977
what it

3624
01:37:22,977 --> 01:37:24,977
s about.

3625
01:37:26,247 --> 01:37:26,581
Um, bear with me a second, MISS

3626
01:37:26,581 --> 01:37:27,315
Painter. I

3627
01:37:27,315 --> 01:37:29,118
m going to ask MR.

3628
01:37:29,118 --> 01:37:31,253
Chambers this just because of

3629
01:37:31,253 --> 01:37:33,989
his decades of service to the

3630
01:37:33,989 --> 01:37:35,992
city of Wilmington. How many

3631
01:37:35,992 --> 01:37:37,860
large scale mixed use or

3632
01:37:37,860 --> 01:37:39,328
planned development projects

3633
01:37:39,328 --> 01:37:41,364
have you seen in your time in

3634
01:37:41,364 --> 01:37:41,531
the planning department? Here?

3635
01:37:41,531 --> 01:37:43,499
Let

3636
01:37:43,499 --> 01:37:43,666
s scale. Um.

3637
01:37:43,666 --> 01:37:45,201
Let

3638
01:37:45,201 --> 01:37:45,668
s define large scale. More

3639
01:37:45,668 --> 01:37:47,668
than.

3640
01:37:48,500 --> 01:37:49,407
Just a handful. Um, this would

3641
01:37:49,407 --> 01:37:50,741
be one of them. Autumn Hall,

3642
01:37:50,741 --> 01:37:53,478
Mayfair, those types of things.

3643
01:37:53,478 --> 01:37:54,746
Fairfield Park. Um, okay. And

3644
01:37:54,746 --> 01:37:56,648
how many of those have come

3645
01:37:56,648 --> 01:37:58,349
back in to revise their

3646
01:37:58,349 --> 01:37:59,351
original bubble plan or master

3647
01:37:59,351 --> 01:38:00,518
plan?

3648
01:38:00,518 --> 01:38:00,719
None of those have because

3649
01:38:00,719 --> 01:38:01,753
they

3650
01:38:01,753 --> 01:38:03,356
re MKs and they have a

3651
01:38:03,356 --> 01:38:03,556
different zoning category that

3652
01:38:03,556 --> 01:38:05,258
doesn

3653
01:38:05,258 --> 01:38:06,626
t. Hang on restriction.

3654
01:38:06,626 --> 01:38:08,294
To it. Okay, so Fairfield Park

3655
01:38:08,294 --> 01:38:09,395
did because I was involved in

3656
01:38:09,395 --> 01:38:11,264
Fairfield Park, and that was

3657
01:38:11,264 --> 01:38:14,670
supposed to be Harris Teeter

3658
01:38:14,670 --> 01:38:15,435
and Residential behind. And now

3659
01:38:15,435 --> 01:38:17,103
you have residential

3660
01:38:17,103 --> 01:38:18,380
everywhere, a church and

3661
01:38:18,380 --> 01:38:19,906
apartments, right?

3662
01:38:19,906 --> 01:38:21,810
That fair enough. But that,

3663
01:38:21,810 --> 01:38:23,845
that was, that was brought in

3664
01:38:23,845 --> 01:38:25,580
to allow for another set of a

3665
01:38:25,580 --> 01:38:27,282
mixed use, another mixed use

3666
01:38:27,282 --> 01:38:28,450
project that would be the same

3667
01:38:28,450 --> 01:38:28,817
rules would still apply.

3668
01:38:28,817 --> 01:38:29,618
The point I

3669
01:38:29,618 --> 01:38:30,686
m trying to make is

3670
01:38:30,686 --> 01:38:34,560
can you go back to the bubble

3671
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:34,390
plan for a second? Whoever

3672
01:38:34,390 --> 01:38:34,857
s

3673
01:38:34,857 --> 01:38:35,157
driving, I don

3674
01:38:35,157 --> 01:38:35,391
t know who

3675
01:38:35,391 --> 01:38:37,391
s

3676
01:38:37,593 --> 01:38:39,593
driving now. That

3677
01:38:41,980 --> 01:38:41,231
s it. So.

3678
01:38:41,231 --> 01:38:42,990
I

3679
01:38:42,990 --> 01:38:42,666
m driving, but I

3680
01:38:42,666 --> 01:38:42,900
m not sure

3681
01:38:42,900 --> 01:38:44,900
if that

3682
01:38:45,469 --> 01:38:47,204
s in MR. Nichols

3683
01:38:47,204 --> 01:38:47,404
presentation or if that is in

3684
01:38:47,404 --> 01:38:48,138
staff

3685
01:38:48,138 --> 01:38:48,305
s presentation.

3686
01:38:48,305 --> 01:38:49,406
It

3687
01:38:49,406 --> 01:38:49,874
s fine. Thank you, MISS

3688
01:38:49,874 --> 01:38:50,274
Bradshaw. I

3689
01:38:50,274 --> 01:38:50,841
m sorry. I

3690
01:38:50,841 --> 01:38:51,709
m just

3691
01:38:51,709 --> 01:38:54,709
wondering where that voice was

3692
01:38:55,179 --> 01:38:56,982
coming from. Um, I guess MR.

3693
01:38:56,982 --> 01:38:59,982
Nichols, for you, the question

3694
01:39:01,487 --> 01:39:03,989
is, in 2013, why? Why do a plan

3695
01:39:03,989 --> 01:39:05,625
like this, a bubble plan, like,

3696
01:39:05,625 --> 01:39:06,859
expand o that a little bit?

3697
01:39:06,859 --> 01:39:07,260
Well, um.

3698
01:39:07,260 --> 01:39:08,695
It

3699
01:39:08,695 --> 01:39:09,929
s certainly on the larger

3700
01:39:09,929 --> 01:39:12,329
size of development for

3701
01:39:13,534 --> 01:39:15,360
Wilmington. And in 2013, um,

3702
01:39:15,360 --> 01:39:15,569
you know, what? Weren

3703
01:39:15,569 --> 01:39:17,238
t really

3704
01:39:17,238 --> 01:39:18,906
sure exactly what was going to

3705
01:39:18,906 --> 01:39:21,442
go there. There were there was

3706
01:39:21,442 --> 01:39:22,877
some bigger concepts, and there

3707
01:39:22,877 --> 01:39:25,130
was a lot of conditions, a

3708
01:39:25,130 --> 01:39:27,582
framework set up to develop the

3709
01:39:27,582 --> 01:39:30,786
property. Um, in a way that

3710
01:39:30,786 --> 01:39:33,456
would be, again, cohesive, have

3711
01:39:33,456 --> 01:39:33,656
architectural consistency.

3712
01:39:33,656 --> 01:39:35,656
There

3713
01:39:37,627 --> 01:39:40,463
d be a, a broad

3714
01:39:40,463 --> 01:39:42,532
circulation pattern. Um, but it

3715
01:39:42,532 --> 01:39:44,670
was to provide flexibility

3716
01:39:44,670 --> 01:39:45,268
because you, you know, here we

3717
01:39:45,268 --> 01:39:45,802
are 13 years later and we

3718
01:39:45,802 --> 01:39:46,837
re

3719
01:39:46,837 --> 01:39:47,204
still developing it. It

3720
01:39:47,204 --> 01:39:47,371
s a,

3721
01:39:47,371 --> 01:39:47,738
it

3722
01:39:47,738 --> 01:39:48,640
s a, it

3723
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:49,841
s a large project.

3724
01:39:49,841 --> 01:39:52,241
The housing market different

3725
01:39:53,110 --> 01:39:54,980
than it was 13 years ago. It is.

3726
01:39:54,980 --> 01:39:56,281
Absolutely different.

3727
01:39:56,281 --> 01:39:57,549
Is the office market different

3728
01:39:57,549 --> 01:39:57,682
than it was 13 years ago?

3729
01:39:57,682 --> 01:39:59,251
I

3730
01:39:59,251 --> 01:40:01,153
m not an expert, but it is.

3731
01:40:01,153 --> 01:40:02,588
It is a lot different. Okay. It

3732
01:40:02,588 --> 01:40:03,622
is a lot different. And the

3733
01:40:03,622 --> 01:40:04,256
retail space is a lot

3734
01:40:04,256 --> 01:40:06,256
different.

3735
01:40:07,160 --> 01:40:10,160
Okay. Um, in all the

3736
01:40:12,199 --> 01:40:14,599
conversation about density, um,

3737
01:40:15,836 --> 01:40:16,503
sorry. Oh, um, I

3738
01:40:16,503 --> 01:40:17,972
ll save the

3739
01:40:17,972 --> 01:40:18,439
last part for my for my

3740
01:40:18,439 --> 01:40:18,706
comment. That

3741
01:40:18,706 --> 01:40:19,140
s that

3742
01:40:19,140 --> 01:40:21,140
s really

3743
01:40:24,446 --> 01:40:28,460
the only question I had. Um.

3744
01:40:28,350 --> 01:40:28,484
Commissioner Pollock.

3745
01:40:28,484 --> 01:40:29,985
I

3746
01:40:29,985 --> 01:40:32,922
m trying to simplify this in

3747
01:40:32,922 --> 01:40:34,156
my mind, Matt. So let me let me

3748
01:40:34,156 --> 01:40:35,591
make a couple declarative

3749
01:40:35,591 --> 01:40:36,492
statements and see if this

3750
01:40:36,492 --> 01:40:37,560
applies. You

3751
01:40:37,560 --> 01:40:39,560
re asking, I

3752
01:40:39,896 --> 01:40:40,630
think, two things, right?

3753
01:40:40,630 --> 01:40:42,630
You

3754
01:40:42,132 --> 01:40:43,167
re asking, um, and if we

3755
01:40:43,167 --> 01:40:45,703
could go back to the one where

3756
01:40:45,703 --> 01:40:47,104
you have the yellow, you know,

3757
01:40:47,104 --> 01:40:49,841
the cordoned off area and the

3758
01:40:49,841 --> 01:40:50,775
yellow, and again, I. Amy, are

3759
01:40:50,775 --> 01:40:51,342
you driving or. I

3760
01:40:51,342 --> 01:40:53,342
m not sure

3761
01:40:56,848 --> 01:41:00,253
who is. It just hit a tree.

3762
01:41:00,253 --> 01:41:01,654
Yeah. Um, but I, I guess I can

3763
01:41:01,654 --> 01:41:01,955
do without the visual. Okay. I

3764
01:41:01,955 --> 01:41:03,955
think you

3765
01:41:04,190 --> 01:41:04,490
re asking two things.

3766
01:41:04,490 --> 01:41:04,791
Uh, that

3767
01:41:04,791 --> 01:41:05,491
s that

3768
01:41:05,491 --> 01:41:06,292
s good enough.

3769
01:41:06,292 --> 01:41:06,993
So, first of all, you

3770
01:41:06,993 --> 01:41:08,993
re asking

3771
01:41:09,596 --> 01:41:13,196
the area that you have defined

3772
01:41:13,400 --> 01:41:15,135
in yellow to create, uh, a

3773
01:41:15,135 --> 01:41:16,700
because every multiple people

3774
01:41:16,700 --> 01:41:16,237
owned properties out here,

3775
01:41:16,237 --> 01:41:17,672
you

3776
01:41:17,672 --> 01:41:20,241
re asking number one to

3777
01:41:20,241 --> 01:41:21,476
have that defined as a new only

3778
01:41:21,476 --> 01:41:22,377
district by itself.

3779
01:41:22,377 --> 01:41:24,377
That is correct.

3780
01:41:24,880 --> 01:41:25,280
Okay. And in that ask, you

3781
01:41:25,280 --> 01:41:26,281
re

3782
01:41:26,281 --> 01:41:26,515
saying, you know, we I

3783
01:41:26,515 --> 01:41:28,417
ve heard

3784
01:41:28,417 --> 01:41:30,817
the numbers, you know, 17

3785
01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:32,210
times. Uh, 12 or 12 point

3786
01:41:32,210 --> 01:41:32,554
something, but you

3787
01:41:32,554 --> 01:41:33,223
re asking

3788
01:41:33,223 --> 01:41:33,623
that, you know, and if that

3789
01:41:33,623 --> 01:41:35,623
s

3790
01:41:35,725 --> 01:41:38,262
the city code, then more than

3791
01:41:38,262 --> 01:41:39,763
happy to adhere to that city

3792
01:41:39,763 --> 01:41:40,630
code. Yeah, I think that

3793
01:41:40,630 --> 01:41:40,264
s

3794
01:41:40,264 --> 01:41:40,864
that

3795
01:41:40,864 --> 01:41:41,131
s part of what you

3796
01:41:41,131 --> 01:41:41,599
re

3797
01:41:41,599 --> 01:41:42,320
asking.

3798
01:41:42,320 --> 01:41:42,533
I think that

3799
01:41:42,533 --> 01:41:44,234
s correct.

3800
01:41:44,234 --> 01:41:44,401
Okay. The second thing I think

3801
01:41:44,401 --> 01:41:45,803
you

3802
01:41:45,803 --> 01:41:48,203
re asking, which is

3803
01:41:48,339 --> 01:41:49,774
confusing, I know I, me and I

3804
01:41:49,774 --> 01:41:51,209
think several of my

3805
01:41:51,209 --> 01:41:53,110
commissioners, it fell

3806
01:41:53,110 --> 01:41:53,845
commissioners is the second

3807
01:41:53,845 --> 01:41:55,845
piece you

3808
01:41:55,881 --> 01:41:57,881
re referencing the

3809
01:41:58,517 --> 01:41:59,850
1375 cap. And you

3810
01:41:59,850 --> 01:42:00,319
ve gone into

3811
01:42:00,319 --> 01:42:02,255
a lot of detail. Would it have

3812
01:42:02,255 --> 01:42:04,257
been simpler to just say, I

3813
01:42:04,257 --> 01:42:05,158
know that based on that master

3814
01:42:05,158 --> 01:42:06,726
plan, that

3815
01:42:06,726 --> 01:42:08,929
s going to take the

3816
01:42:08,929 --> 01:42:11,329
number of 13 is 1375, whatever

3817
01:42:11,365 --> 01:42:11,499
it is up to, you know, 1500,

3818
01:42:11,499 --> 01:42:12,633
I

3819
01:42:12,633 --> 01:42:13,000
ll just use round numbers.

3820
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:14,680
And you

3821
01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:14,735
re asking the city to

3822
01:42:14,735 --> 01:42:16,470
say that

3823
01:42:16,470 --> 01:42:16,604
s okay. I think that

3824
01:42:16,604 --> 01:42:16,871
s

3825
01:42:16,871 --> 01:42:17,505
what you

3826
01:42:17,505 --> 01:42:18,720
re asking.

3827
01:42:18,720 --> 01:42:18,973
I think that

3828
01:42:18,973 --> 01:42:21,973
s one way to look

3829
01:42:22,900 --> 01:42:24,379
at it. Um, but I didn

3830
01:42:24,379 --> 01:42:26,379
t want to

3831
01:42:26,515 --> 01:42:29,180
confuse and say that we were

3832
01:42:29,180 --> 01:42:32,618
asking for the number to be,

3833
01:42:32,956 --> 01:42:34,157
um, raised from 1375 because we

3834
01:42:34,157 --> 01:42:35,240
were told we can

3835
01:42:35,240 --> 01:42:36,226
t do that

3836
01:42:36,226 --> 01:42:36,426
without rezoning the whole

3837
01:42:36,426 --> 01:42:37,600
thing.

3838
01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:39,600
I understand.

3839
01:42:39,629 --> 01:42:41,598
Which which, frankly, um, I

3840
01:42:41,598 --> 01:42:43,267
disagreed with, but I respect

3841
01:42:43,267 --> 01:42:43,468
what the city staff. And we

3842
01:42:43,468 --> 01:42:44,302
didn

3843
01:42:44,302 --> 01:42:46,171
t want to have a big

3844
01:42:46,171 --> 01:42:47,205
argument with them. But to me,

3845
01:42:47,205 --> 01:42:50,805
the easiest thing to do would

3846
01:42:50,975 --> 01:42:53,679
have been a one line condition

3847
01:42:53,679 --> 01:42:56,140
request. Can we just take the

3848
01:42:56,140 --> 01:42:58,250
cap off and follow the code

3849
01:42:58,250 --> 01:42:58,584
that? But I get it. They

3850
01:42:58,584 --> 01:42:59,170
re

3851
01:42:59,170 --> 01:43:00,190
saying we can

3852
01:43:00,190 --> 01:43:00,152
t do that and I

3853
01:43:00,152 --> 01:43:01,540
m

3854
01:43:01,540 --> 01:43:02,155
not going to argue with them.

3855
01:43:02,155 --> 01:43:02,522
So we said, well, we

3856
01:43:02,522 --> 01:43:03,757
re really

3857
01:43:03,757 --> 01:43:05,792
only talking about seven and a

3858
01:43:05,792 --> 01:43:06,526
half acres here of that

3859
01:43:06,526 --> 01:43:08,526
s sort

3860
01:43:09,620 --> 01:43:10,364
of vacant. And if we add the

3861
01:43:10,364 --> 01:43:11,198
office space in because we own

3862
01:43:11,198 --> 01:43:11,465
it and it makes sense, it

3863
01:43:11,465 --> 01:43:13,200
s in

3864
01:43:13,200 --> 01:43:14,301
the same block. If we add that

3865
01:43:14,301 --> 01:43:16,904
in, then that would allow us to

3866
01:43:16,904 --> 01:43:19,474
do cd you. If that opportunity

3867
01:43:19,474 --> 01:43:21,310
presents itself and we will

3868
01:43:21,310 --> 01:43:24,179
follow the code, we will we

3869
01:43:24,179 --> 01:43:25,881
will follow your code. And in

3870
01:43:25,881 --> 01:43:26,649
addition to all the other

3871
01:43:26,649 --> 01:43:27,490
conditions that we

3872
01:43:27,490 --> 01:43:27,216
ve said,

3873
01:43:27,216 --> 01:43:27,516
we

3874
01:43:27,516 --> 01:43:28,500
re we

3875
01:43:28,500 --> 01:43:29,552
re fine with.

3876
01:43:29,552 --> 01:43:29,818
Yeah, all things being equal.

3877
01:43:29,818 --> 01:43:30,419
Yeah. We

3878
01:43:30,419 --> 01:43:30,819
ll just follow the

3879
01:43:30,819 --> 01:43:31,387
code again. We

3880
01:43:31,387 --> 01:43:33,387
re not asking

3881
01:43:33,489 --> 01:43:34,757
for any extra density or any

3882
01:43:34,757 --> 01:43:35,257
special treatment. We

3883
01:43:35,257 --> 01:43:37,257
re just

3884
01:43:37,428 --> 01:43:38,562
asking that the commission and

3885
01:43:38,562 --> 01:43:40,970
ultimately the City Council,

3886
01:43:40,970 --> 01:43:41,666
please look back at a condition

3887
01:43:41,666 --> 01:43:43,568
that was placed on this 13

3888
01:43:43,568 --> 01:43:45,536
years ago. Does it make sense?

3889
01:43:45,536 --> 01:43:46,904
Today? We respectfully contend

3890
01:43:46,904 --> 01:43:48,600
it does not make sense today.

3891
01:43:48,600 --> 01:43:48,206
And the condition that you

3892
01:43:48,206 --> 01:43:49,574
re

3893
01:43:49,574 --> 01:43:51,974
referencing is nothing more

3894
01:43:52,444 --> 01:43:53,179
than the 1375 cap. That

3895
01:43:53,179 --> 01:43:53,612
s it in

3896
01:43:53,612 --> 01:43:53,813
a nutshell.

3897
01:43:53,813 --> 01:43:54,580
That

3898
01:43:54,580 --> 01:43:54,714
s it in a nutshell. We

3899
01:43:54,714 --> 01:43:56,282
re

3900
01:43:56,282 --> 01:43:56,415
here because of that. Um, I

3901
01:43:56,415 --> 01:43:58,510
m

3902
01:43:58,510 --> 01:43:59,452
not going to call it arbitrary,

3903
01:43:59,452 --> 01:44:00,320
because there was certainly a

3904
01:44:00,320 --> 01:44:01,540
reason for it. And I

3905
01:44:01,540 --> 01:44:01,287
m not I

3906
01:44:01,287 --> 01:44:01,788
m

3907
01:44:01,788 --> 01:44:02,655
not saying it

3908
01:44:02,655 --> 01:44:04,157
s some random

3909
01:44:04,157 --> 01:44:05,291
number. I think it had to

3910
01:44:05,291 --> 01:44:06,659
probably do with the overall

3911
01:44:06,659 --> 01:44:09,590
density. And they were

3912
01:44:09,963 --> 01:44:10,970
calculating things and I don

3913
01:44:10,970 --> 01:44:11,966
t

3914
01:44:11,966 --> 01:44:13,868
know how that number came to,

3915
01:44:13,868 --> 01:44:14,602
um, but that was the number

3916
01:44:14,602 --> 01:44:14,769
that was put on there.

3917
01:44:14,769 --> 01:44:15,971
It

3918
01:44:15,971 --> 01:44:16,638
s probably relevant at this

3919
01:44:16,638 --> 01:44:18,638
point.

3920
01:44:18,907 --> 01:44:19,407
I think 13 years later it

3921
01:44:19,407 --> 01:44:20,508
s

3922
01:44:20,508 --> 01:44:20,909
well outdated. It

3923
01:44:20,909 --> 01:44:22,811
s out there.

3924
01:44:22,811 --> 01:44:24,880
Just trying to simplify the

3925
01:44:24,880 --> 01:44:26,248
ask. Yes, in my mind so that,

3926
01:44:26,248 --> 01:44:26,815
you know, to consider it. And I

3927
01:44:26,815 --> 01:44:27,683
think you

3928
01:44:27,683 --> 01:44:30,830
ve answered my first

3929
01:44:30,353 --> 01:44:32,956
question that says, you know,

3930
01:44:32,956 --> 01:44:33,123
separate. Oh, and I for this as

3931
01:44:33,123 --> 01:44:34,992
you

3932
01:44:34,992 --> 01:44:36,927
ve cordoned off. Right. And

3933
01:44:36,927 --> 01:44:37,895
I want to develop that tree,

3934
01:44:37,895 --> 01:44:39,329
the pieces that are, you know,

3935
01:44:39,329 --> 01:44:41,565
these in your picture of their

3936
01:44:41,565 --> 01:44:43,867
treed want to have the ability

3937
01:44:43,867 --> 01:44:46,171
to do residential right within

3938
01:44:46,171 --> 01:44:48,507
the city code, which is the 17

3939
01:44:48,507 --> 01:44:50,507
times 12 point something 200

3940
01:44:51,610 --> 01:44:53,779
and 208 um, and could get

3941
01:44:53,779 --> 01:44:56,615
bigger if you do the. If you do

3942
01:44:56,615 --> 01:44:56,816
the different calculations. So

3943
01:44:56,816 --> 01:44:57,490
that

3944
01:44:57,490 --> 01:44:58,500
s, that

3945
01:44:58,500 --> 01:44:58,517
s the first ask.

3946
01:44:58,517 --> 01:44:59,151
And I think what

3947
01:44:59,151 --> 01:45:01,151
s confused

3948
01:45:01,387 --> 01:45:04,258
this is without a plan without

3949
01:45:04,258 --> 01:45:05,125
a site plan. The second piece

3950
01:45:05,125 --> 01:45:05,726
at least, and I

3951
01:45:05,726 --> 01:45:07,726
ve heard has

3952
01:45:08,162 --> 01:45:09,530
caused some confusion. And the

3953
01:45:09,530 --> 01:45:11,399
other, the other piece of the

3954
01:45:11,399 --> 01:45:12,660
confusion is, again, I

3955
01:45:12,660 --> 01:45:13,301
m

3956
01:45:13,301 --> 01:45:13,501
struggling personally with it

3957
01:45:13,501 --> 01:45:14,168
s

3958
01:45:14,168 --> 01:45:15,303
the second piece. It

3959
01:45:15,303 --> 01:45:17,205
s the

3960
01:45:17,205 --> 01:45:17,972
1375. And I don

3961
01:45:17,972 --> 01:45:18,539
t mean this is

3962
01:45:18,539 --> 01:45:19,707
I, I don

3963
01:45:19,707 --> 01:45:22,178
t know that I care

3964
01:45:22,178 --> 01:45:22,745
about 1375 at this point.

3965
01:45:22,745 --> 01:45:23,446
Right. That

3966
01:45:23,446 --> 01:45:24,413
s that

3967
01:45:24,413 --> 01:45:24,680
s kind of

3968
01:45:24,680 --> 01:45:25,381
where I

3969
01:45:25,381 --> 01:45:26,149
m at a little bit

3970
01:45:26,149 --> 01:45:27,383
because we

3971
01:45:27,383 --> 01:45:29,783
re talking about a

3972
01:45:30,860 --> 01:45:32,555
limited, you know, bound by

3973
01:45:32,555 --> 01:45:33,890
conditions, you know, bound by

3974
01:45:33,890 --> 01:45:34,524
city code. Um, I

3975
01:45:34,524 --> 01:45:36,326
m not sure

3976
01:45:36,326 --> 01:45:36,893
that I care that that

3977
01:45:36,893 --> 01:45:37,527
s going

3978
01:45:37,527 --> 01:45:37,795
to change because it

3979
01:45:37,795 --> 01:45:39,297
s not

3980
01:45:39,297 --> 01:45:42,801
going to change any of the

3981
01:45:42,801 --> 01:45:44,402
other pieces of the 1375 in any

3982
01:45:44,402 --> 01:45:45,236
of the other residential pieces

3983
01:45:45,236 --> 01:45:46,738
that are there, does that

3984
01:45:46,738 --> 01:45:47,405
change in any of that at all?

3985
01:45:47,405 --> 01:45:47,572
Correct.

3986
01:45:47,572 --> 01:45:48,673
We

3987
01:45:48,673 --> 01:45:49,908
re not changing anything

3988
01:45:49,908 --> 01:45:50,108
outside of that yellow dotted

3989
01:45:50,108 --> 01:45:50,275
area.

3990
01:45:50,275 --> 01:45:50,809
We

3991
01:45:50,809 --> 01:45:50,976
re saying the same thing.

3992
01:45:50,976 --> 01:45:51,676
We

3993
01:45:51,676 --> 01:45:51,977
re not changing. We

3994
01:45:51,977 --> 01:45:53,211
re not

3995
01:45:53,211 --> 01:45:53,779
proposing that anything change

3996
01:45:53,779 --> 01:45:54,790
outside of that.

3997
01:45:54,790 --> 01:45:55,130
Yeah, that

3998
01:45:55,130 --> 01:45:56,282
s what I just want

3999
01:45:56,282 --> 01:45:57,116
to get clear in my mind. Keep

4000
01:45:57,116 --> 01:45:57,317
it real simple. What

4001
01:45:57,317 --> 01:45:57,450
s you

4002
01:45:57,450 --> 01:45:57,684
re

4003
01:45:57,684 --> 01:45:58,218
asking?

4004
01:45:58,218 --> 01:45:59,552
Yes, sir.

4005
01:45:59,552 --> 01:45:59,753
Two things. That

4006
01:45:59,753 --> 01:45:59,919
s all.

4007
01:45:59,919 --> 01:46:00,220
You

4008
01:46:00,220 --> 01:46:00,487
re asking. We

4009
01:46:00,487 --> 01:46:02,880
re not

4010
01:46:02,880 --> 01:46:03,423
proposing there be any change

4011
01:46:03,423 --> 01:46:06,326
to anything out of that yellow

4012
01:46:06,326 --> 01:46:06,493
dotted area. Okay? And, um,

4013
01:46:06,493 --> 01:46:07,928
we

4014
01:46:07,928 --> 01:46:09,263
re and we

4015
01:46:09,263 --> 01:46:10,497
re proposing a

4016
01:46:10,497 --> 01:46:11,465
number of conditions on top of

4017
01:46:11,465 --> 01:46:11,999
your code. Right. We

4018
01:46:11,999 --> 01:46:13,999
ll follow

4019
01:46:16,204 --> 01:46:17,720
your code and almost, I guess

4020
01:46:17,720 --> 01:46:17,906
everything. Well, not

4021
01:46:17,906 --> 01:46:19,740
everything, because some of

4022
01:46:19,740 --> 01:46:21,710
this is outside of Berkeley,

4023
01:46:21,710 --> 01:46:24,113
but was was not developed with

4024
01:46:24,113 --> 01:46:25,948
a specific site plan. Anyway,

4025
01:46:25,948 --> 01:46:28,317
as far as the seed plan, it was

4026
01:46:28,317 --> 01:46:30,152
a it was to allow flexibility

4027
01:46:30,152 --> 01:46:31,855
with the development. And I

4028
01:46:31,855 --> 01:46:32,223
think my clients have proven

4029
01:46:32,223 --> 01:46:33,457
that they

4030
01:46:33,457 --> 01:46:34,725
ve been very

4031
01:46:34,725 --> 01:46:36,260
responsible with that

4032
01:46:36,260 --> 01:46:38,280
flexibility. And there is

4033
01:46:38,280 --> 01:46:38,329
absolutely no reason to believe

4034
01:46:38,329 --> 01:46:38,996
that they

4035
01:46:38,996 --> 01:46:41,165
re going to come in

4036
01:46:41,165 --> 01:46:43,000
there and do something to hurt

4037
01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:44,201
their own development. They

4038
01:46:44,201 --> 01:46:44,502
have done all of that around

4039
01:46:44,502 --> 01:46:46,104
it. It

4040
01:46:46,104 --> 01:46:47,272
s in the middle of this

4041
01:46:47,272 --> 01:46:47,405
mixed use development, and it

4042
01:46:47,405 --> 01:46:49,208
s

4043
01:46:49,208 --> 01:46:50,509
sort of the last little piece

4044
01:46:50,509 --> 01:46:52,278
of the puzzle. And we were

4045
01:46:52,278 --> 01:46:54,314
trying to get some more density

4046
01:46:54,314 --> 01:46:55,881
in there because the city needs

4047
01:46:55,881 --> 01:46:56,282
it. There

4048
01:46:56,282 --> 01:46:56,883
s there

4049
01:46:56,883 --> 01:46:58,883
s a demand

4050
01:47:00,186 --> 01:47:00,854
for it. I can go on and on, but

4051
01:47:00,854 --> 01:47:02,854
I think it

4052
01:47:03,356 --> 01:47:05,560
s an ideal place to

4053
01:47:05,560 --> 01:47:06,270
put density. You

4054
01:47:06,270 --> 01:47:08,270
re not going

4055
01:47:08,362 --> 01:47:11,232
to find a better established

4056
01:47:11,232 --> 01:47:12,700
infrastructure of roadways,

4057
01:47:12,700 --> 01:47:14,536
access to signalized

4058
01:47:14,536 --> 01:47:16,671
intersections, center of the

4059
01:47:16,671 --> 01:47:18,440
city. Uh, people could walk to

4060
01:47:18,440 --> 01:47:19,808
work. People can walk to

4061
01:47:19,808 --> 01:47:21,760
restaurant, they can walk to

4062
01:47:21,760 --> 01:47:21,677
the movie theater. There

4063
01:47:21,677 --> 01:47:23,246
s

4064
01:47:23,246 --> 01:47:24,948
sidewalks out there. There

4065
01:47:24,948 --> 01:47:25,115
s

4066
01:47:25,115 --> 01:47:26,149
it

4067
01:47:26,149 --> 01:47:27,283
s it

4068
01:47:27,283 --> 01:47:28,118
s where you want to put

4069
01:47:28,118 --> 01:47:28,485
density. If you

4070
01:47:28,485 --> 01:47:29,686
re going to

4071
01:47:29,686 --> 01:47:30,286
concentrate density to where

4072
01:47:30,286 --> 01:47:30,453
you want to put it.

4073
01:47:30,453 --> 01:47:31,588
You

4074
01:47:31,588 --> 01:47:32,222
ve answered my two

4075
01:47:32,222 --> 01:47:32,689
questions. So I

4076
01:47:32,689 --> 01:47:33,123
ll I

4077
01:47:33,123 --> 01:47:33,690
ll go

4078
01:47:33,690 --> 01:47:34,691
silent and I

4079
01:47:34,691 --> 01:47:37,910
ll defer back to

4080
01:47:38,228 --> 01:47:38,729
the chair, please.

4081
01:47:38,729 --> 01:47:39,697
Matt, you

4082
01:47:39,697 --> 01:47:41,800
re doing great. You

4083
01:47:41,800 --> 01:47:43,401
really are. And I understand

4084
01:47:43,401 --> 01:47:44,736
and I, I will shut up after

4085
01:47:44,736 --> 01:47:44,903
this one. But quite frankly,

4086
01:47:44,903 --> 01:47:46,271
it

4087
01:47:46,271 --> 01:47:46,505
s not directed to you. It

4088
01:47:46,505 --> 01:47:47,840
s

4089
01:47:47,840 --> 01:47:48,206
directed to staff. So if I

4090
01:47:48,206 --> 01:47:49,108
m

4091
01:47:49,108 --> 01:47:51,143
out of line doing that,

4092
01:47:51,143 --> 01:47:53,412
somebody tell me. But, um, is

4093
01:47:53,412 --> 01:47:54,313
there any aspect of this

4094
01:47:54,313 --> 01:47:55,881
proposal that

4095
01:47:55,881 --> 01:47:58,281
s been before us?

4096
01:48:00,554 --> 01:48:02,556
Um, in violation of that cap

4097
01:48:02,556 --> 01:48:03,724
that originated back on

4098
01:48:03,724 --> 01:48:05,726
whatever year that it was of

4099
01:48:05,726 --> 01:48:05,926
1300? Is there any aspect of

4100
01:48:05,926 --> 01:48:07,940
what

4101
01:48:07,940 --> 01:48:08,195
s being asked to do here,

4102
01:48:08,195 --> 01:48:10,565
which is obviously going to

4103
01:48:10,565 --> 01:48:12,200
make a higher number? Is that a

4104
01:48:12,200 --> 01:48:14,268
problem to staff? Because if

4105
01:48:14,268 --> 01:48:14,636
you guys got worked out, I got

4106
01:48:14,636 --> 01:48:16,636
it worked.

4107
01:48:17,873 --> 01:48:20,576
Out. If this property is

4108
01:48:20,576 --> 01:48:22,178
rezoned to a new cd and and for

4109
01:48:22,178 --> 01:48:23,913
all intents and purposes

4110
01:48:23,913 --> 01:48:26,149
removed from that original

4111
01:48:26,149 --> 01:48:27,450
master plan, then it would be

4112
01:48:27,450 --> 01:48:28,585
compliant on its own and it

4113
01:48:28,585 --> 01:48:30,530
would not be in conflict with

4114
01:48:30,530 --> 01:48:31,488
the original master plan.

4115
01:48:31,488 --> 01:48:33,324
Okay, and I understand that,

4116
01:48:33,324 --> 01:48:33,925
but you use the word if. Is

4117
01:48:33,925 --> 01:48:34,992
that what we

4118
01:48:34,992 --> 01:48:35,193
re doing?

4119
01:48:35,193 --> 01:48:35,827
That

4120
01:48:35,827 --> 01:48:35,960
s exactly what you

4121
01:48:35,960 --> 01:48:36,194
re

4122
01:48:36,194 --> 01:48:38,194
doing.

4123
01:48:39,797 --> 01:48:41,633
Okay. Thank you.

4124
01:48:41,633 --> 01:48:44,269
Does anyone have any more

4125
01:48:44,269 --> 01:48:45,871
questions, Commissioner coffer?

4126
01:48:45,871 --> 01:48:46,872
Sorry, I apologize, not trying

4127
01:48:46,872 --> 01:48:47,906
to belabor anything, but you

4128
01:48:47,906 --> 01:48:48,390
made a few comments that I

4129
01:48:48,390 --> 01:48:48,974
m

4130
01:48:48,974 --> 01:48:50,877
just curious to get some

4131
01:48:50,877 --> 01:48:53,379
clarity on. On the cdm muse

4132
01:48:53,379 --> 01:48:55,348
come up several times. So how

4133
01:48:55,348 --> 01:48:56,783
does that fit into this

4134
01:48:56,783 --> 01:48:59,219
discussion of rezoning to. Oh,

4135
01:48:59,219 --> 01:49:00,354
and I for this parcel?

4136
01:49:00,354 --> 01:49:02,723
Well, we would have the

4137
01:49:02,723 --> 01:49:04,725
opportunity to do residential

4138
01:49:04,725 --> 01:49:05,325
on the only property zoned. Oh

4139
01:49:05,325 --> 01:49:05,993
and I now we

4140
01:49:05,993 --> 01:49:08,263
re asking for that

4141
01:49:08,263 --> 01:49:09,497
to stay the same. But we would

4142
01:49:09,497 --> 01:49:11,133
have the opportunity to do the

4143
01:49:11,133 --> 01:49:13,533
cdm with the existing

4144
01:49:13,869 --> 01:49:15,103
commercial. That is what that

4145
01:49:15,103 --> 01:49:15,370
would be within the district

4146
01:49:15,370 --> 01:49:16,572
that you

4147
01:49:16,572 --> 01:49:18,572
re considering the

4148
01:49:21,176 --> 01:49:23,176
12.5 for 12.25 acres.

4149
01:49:23,345 --> 01:49:24,580
And and this would have to just

4150
01:49:24,580 --> 01:49:26,516
jump over to staff. So how does

4151
01:49:26,516 --> 01:49:26,750
that change the complexion of

4152
01:49:26,750 --> 01:49:27,584
what we

4153
01:49:27,584 --> 01:49:29,984
re talking about when

4154
01:49:30,254 --> 01:49:33,324
we go from, oh, and I without

4155
01:49:33,324 --> 01:49:34,925
us, with 208 units, based on

4156
01:49:34,925 --> 01:49:36,494
your acreage calculations, no

4157
01:49:36,494 --> 01:49:37,895
site plan for the structure.

4158
01:49:37,895 --> 01:49:40,564
Um, but conditions that the

4159
01:49:40,564 --> 01:49:42,333
applicant self-imposed had cdm

4160
01:49:42,333 --> 01:49:43,335
um, fit into this. What what

4161
01:49:43,335 --> 01:49:45,400
was that look like?

4162
01:49:45,400 --> 01:49:47,840
If this is rezoned to a new.

4163
01:49:47,840 --> 01:49:50,509
Oh, and I cd, the cdm would be

4164
01:49:50,509 --> 01:49:51,677
an option for development under

4165
01:49:51,677 --> 01:49:52,545
the under the new conditional

4166
01:49:52,545 --> 01:49:54,545
district.

4167
01:49:54,714 --> 01:49:54,981
With a cap of 208 residential

4168
01:49:54,981 --> 01:49:56,516
units.

4169
01:49:56,516 --> 01:49:57,650
It would be capped at 17 units

4170
01:49:57,650 --> 01:49:58,885
pe acre, which I believe works

4171
01:49:58,885 --> 01:50:00,454
out to 208 units.

4172
01:50:00,454 --> 01:50:02,356
Is there anything else

4173
01:50:02,356 --> 01:50:03,891
significant or salient that we

4174
01:50:03,891 --> 01:50:06,194
would need to know about cnu at

4175
01:50:06,194 --> 01:50:07,595
that point to evaluate this

4176
01:50:07,595 --> 01:50:09,595
properly?

4177
01:50:10,398 --> 01:50:11,990
Um, the cdm requirements, cdm

4178
01:50:11,990 --> 01:50:12,000
requirements, there

4179
01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:13,235
s a minimum

4180
01:50:13,235 --> 01:50:13,435
commercial component. There

4181
01:50:13,435 --> 01:50:14,603
s a

4182
01:50:14,603 --> 01:50:14,803
minimum parking requirement,

4183
01:50:14,803 --> 01:50:15,704
there

4184
01:50:15,704 --> 01:50:16,538
s a minimum open space

4185
01:50:16,538 --> 01:50:16,772
requirement. And then there

4186
01:50:16,772 --> 01:50:18,474
s

4187
01:50:18,474 --> 01:50:19,142
the 17 units per acre on the

4188
01:50:19,142 --> 01:50:21,142
density.

4189
01:50:21,311 --> 01:50:22,378
Okay. Thank you Brian.

4190
01:50:22,378 --> 01:50:24,378
Yes, sir.

4191
01:50:24,581 --> 01:50:25,482
Um. We

4192
01:50:25,482 --> 01:50:28,482
ve talked a little bit

4193
01:50:28,885 --> 01:50:29,886
about the 1375 from 2013, and

4194
01:50:29,886 --> 01:50:30,200
maybe it was arbitrary. I

4195
01:50:30,200 --> 01:50:30,854
m

4196
01:50:30,854 --> 01:50:32,890
sure it had some kind of

4197
01:50:32,890 --> 01:50:33,557
purpose, but if you do the math

4198
01:50:33,557 --> 01:50:33,724
on 302 acres, it looks like

4199
01:50:33,724 --> 01:50:35,527
it

4200
01:50:35,527 --> 01:50:37,329
s about 4.5 units per acre.

4201
01:50:37,329 --> 01:50:39,164
And this 208 addition would

4202
01:50:39,164 --> 01:50:40,499
make you right on 5.5 units per

4203
01:50:40,499 --> 01:50:42,634
acre, which kind of lends

4204
01:50:42,634 --> 01:50:44,369
itself into r somewhere between

4205
01:50:44,369 --> 01:50:46,171
r seven and our ten. If we were

4206
01:50:46,171 --> 01:50:49,771
to rezone the whole site today,

4207
01:50:49,809 --> 01:50:51,100
302 acres to our between our

4208
01:50:51,100 --> 01:50:53,460
seven and our ten, it would be

4209
01:50:53,460 --> 01:50:54,681
this calculation if we applied

4210
01:50:54,681 --> 01:50:56,617
it to the whole project. I just

4211
01:50:56,617 --> 01:50:58,819
wanted to make that little, um,

4212
01:50:58,819 --> 01:51:00,921
comment and see if you, I

4213
01:51:00,921 --> 01:51:02,256
guess, part of why this feels a

4214
01:51:02,256 --> 01:51:02,423
little disjointed is because we

4215
01:51:02,423 --> 01:51:03,457
don

4216
01:51:03,457 --> 01:51:04,992
t have the full history of

4217
01:51:04,992 --> 01:51:05,426
that file. You know, we weren

4218
01:51:05,426 --> 01:51:06,861
t

4219
01:51:06,861 --> 01:51:07,610
there. Part of this thread

4220
01:51:07,610 --> 01:51:08,496
that

4221
01:51:08,496 --> 01:51:09,864
s evolved, and I get the

4222
01:51:09,864 --> 01:51:11,166
flexibility that needs to be

4223
01:51:11,166 --> 01:51:12,968
injected into a project like

4224
01:51:12,968 --> 01:51:13,769
this, but MR.. The CHAIRMAN

4225
01:51:13,769 --> 01:51:16,238
Also brought up, you know,

4226
01:51:16,238 --> 01:51:17,640
other community, other projects

4227
01:51:17,640 --> 01:51:19,675
of this magnitude. And you

4228
01:51:19,675 --> 01:51:20,710
know, obviously I

4229
01:51:20,710 --> 01:51:21,744
m just one

4230
01:51:21,744 --> 01:51:23,713
person, but, you know, okay,

4231
01:51:23,713 --> 01:51:24,781
well, what if we plop 208 units

4232
01:51:24,781 --> 01:51:25,314
in the middle of Autumn Hall

4233
01:51:25,314 --> 01:51:25,949
just because it

4234
01:51:25,949 --> 01:51:27,585
s a local

4235
01:51:27,585 --> 01:51:28,886
family that has great, you

4236
01:51:28,886 --> 01:51:30,821
know, good faith and fair

4237
01:51:30,821 --> 01:51:33,221
dealings with the community.

4238
01:51:33,724 --> 01:51:35,126
Um, so, you know, one question

4239
01:51:35,126 --> 01:51:36,728
in that line of thought would

4240
01:51:36,728 --> 01:51:38,963
be that Wilmington Health

4241
01:51:38,963 --> 01:51:40,665
parcel that was sold off, was

4242
01:51:40,665 --> 01:51:43,340
that building completed when it

4243
01:51:43,340 --> 01:51:43,301
was sold, or was it.

4244
01:51:43,301 --> 01:51:44,803
Um, it

4245
01:51:44,803 --> 01:51:46,572
s being constructed now.

4246
01:51:46,572 --> 01:51:47,874
So they are Wilmington Health

4247
01:51:47,874 --> 01:51:49,375
is building it.

4248
01:51:49,375 --> 01:51:51,578
Yes. They own the property.

4249
01:51:51,578 --> 01:51:52,746
So the opportunity exists for

4250
01:51:52,746 --> 01:51:54,214
your client to sell this

4251
01:51:54,214 --> 01:51:55,715
property once it goes through

4252
01:51:55,715 --> 01:51:55,949
entitlement. And but you

4253
01:51:55,949 --> 01:51:56,950
wouldn

4254
01:51:56,950 --> 01:51:58,485
t build the proper

4255
01:51:58,485 --> 01:51:59,953
product. Just like woman Health

4256
01:51:59,953 --> 01:52:00,921
is not building that. I mean,

4257
01:52:00,921 --> 01:52:01,421
just like your client

4258
01:52:01,421 --> 01:52:02,857
s not

4259
01:52:02,857 --> 01:52:05,257
building the Wilmington Health

4260
01:52:07,529 --> 01:52:08,296
building. That fair to say?

4261
01:52:08,296 --> 01:52:09,331
Um, I

4262
01:52:09,331 --> 01:52:10,766
m not sure I understand

4263
01:52:10,766 --> 01:52:12,000
the question, but, I mean, my

4264
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:13,302
client is anybody could could

4265
01:52:13,302 --> 01:52:15,204
sell their property at any

4266
01:52:15,204 --> 01:52:15,804
time. Yeah. I mean, that

4267
01:52:15,804 --> 01:52:15,971
s I

4268
01:52:15,971 --> 01:52:16,972
don

4269
01:52:16,972 --> 01:52:18,707
t I don

4270
01:52:18,707 --> 01:52:18,841
t mean that to be.

4271
01:52:18,841 --> 01:52:19,475
I

4272
01:52:19,475 --> 01:52:20,176
m just I don

4273
01:52:20,176 --> 01:52:20,877
t I

4274
01:52:20,877 --> 01:52:21,912
m not sure I

4275
01:52:21,912 --> 01:52:23,413
understand, but. Yeah.

4276
01:52:23,413 --> 01:52:25,582
Well I mean I think you, you,

4277
01:52:25,582 --> 01:52:27,170
you made a couple points and,

4278
01:52:27,170 --> 01:52:28,152
and I understand to advocate

4279
01:52:28,152 --> 01:52:30,120
for the client and the and the

4280
01:52:30,120 --> 01:52:32,423
family and the, the company. I

4281
01:52:32,423 --> 01:52:34,191
get that. Um, but but I think

4282
01:52:34,191 --> 01:52:35,493
in fairness and to be candid

4283
01:52:35,493 --> 01:52:36,930
and frank, it could be sold.

4284
01:52:36,930 --> 01:52:36,727
And they aren

4285
01:52:36,727 --> 01:52:38,464
t the ones who

4286
01:52:38,464 --> 01:52:38,931
built it. Build it.

4287
01:52:38,931 --> 01:52:39,765
Well, that

4288
01:52:39,765 --> 01:52:40,299
s true, but that

4289
01:52:40,299 --> 01:52:42,299
s

4290
01:52:42,434 --> 01:52:43,736
true. All you all zoning can

4291
01:52:43,736 --> 01:52:45,104
control is land use. You

4292
01:52:45,104 --> 01:52:46,873
absolutely have no control over

4293
01:52:46,873 --> 01:52:48,808
ownership, right? Uh, you can

4294
01:52:48,808 --> 01:52:51,811
own the property. You can put

4295
01:52:51,811 --> 01:52:53,120
it in a condo. You can. But the

4296
01:52:53,120 --> 01:52:56,120
assurances you have here are

4297
01:52:56,150 --> 01:52:57,685
the conditions. So it has to be

4298
01:52:57,685 --> 01:52:57,885
consistent with Berkeley West.

4299
01:52:57,885 --> 01:52:59,885
That

4300
01:53:01,556 --> 01:53:03,570
s in the conditions. Um,

4301
01:53:03,570 --> 01:53:03,691
let me let me again. I don

4302
01:53:03,691 --> 01:53:03,891
t I

4303
01:53:03,891 --> 01:53:05,159
didn

4304
01:53:05,159 --> 01:53:06,127
t really go through each

4305
01:53:06,127 --> 01:53:06,394
of the conditions, but I do

4306
01:53:06,394 --> 01:53:08,363
think it

4307
01:53:08,363 --> 01:53:10,363
s significant that,

4308
01:53:11,266 --> 01:53:12,702
um, the conditions are going to

4309
01:53:12,702 --> 01:53:14,904
require it, that it be

4310
01:53:14,904 --> 01:53:17,904
consistent with what you have

4311
01:53:18,107 --> 01:53:19,676
out there. Um, I mean, my

4312
01:53:19,676 --> 01:53:21,911
clients are are going to do

4313
01:53:21,911 --> 01:53:23,113
that anyway, but they have no

4314
01:53:23,113 --> 01:53:24,214
problem at all putting that as

4315
01:53:24,214 --> 01:53:24,481
a condition because they

4316
01:53:24,481 --> 01:53:26,481
re

4317
01:53:26,817 --> 01:53:28,952
going to mandate it. Um, zoning

4318
01:53:28,952 --> 01:53:29,850
or not. There. Again, they

4319
01:53:29,850 --> 01:53:29,887
re

4320
01:53:29,887 --> 01:53:30,880
not going to have anything

4321
01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:32,880
that

4322
01:53:32,924 --> 01:53:35,260
s not consistent with very

4323
01:53:35,260 --> 01:53:37,426
high quality mixed use

4324
01:53:37,729 --> 01:53:38,997
development. They they have an

4325
01:53:38,997 --> 01:53:41,397
extremely high level of

4326
01:53:41,533 --> 01:53:43,135
investment in this property.

4327
01:53:43,135 --> 01:53:43,902
And you can see that from just

4328
01:53:43,902 --> 01:53:46,302
look at the roadway

4329
01:53:47,273 --> 01:53:49,509
improvements alone. So, um,

4330
01:53:49,509 --> 01:53:49,676
regardless of who owns it, um,

4331
01:53:49,676 --> 01:53:50,510
it

4332
01:53:50,510 --> 01:53:52,546
s going to have to be

4333
01:53:52,546 --> 01:53:54,946
consistent with Berkeley West.

4334
01:53:57,170 --> 01:54:01,217
And you can see that with, um,

4335
01:54:01,655 --> 01:54:03,900
conditions. Um, nine for

4336
01:54:03,900 --> 01:54:04,158
example, linear strip retail

4337
01:54:04,158 --> 01:54:05,628
and service development shall

4338
01:54:05,628 --> 01:54:06,728
be prohibited unless proposed

4339
01:54:06,728 --> 01:54:07,363
architectural design is

4340
01:54:07,363 --> 01:54:08,931
compatible

4341
01:54:08,931 --> 01:54:10,432
And consistent with the

4342
01:54:10,432 --> 01:54:12,635
existing phases of the Berkeley

4343
01:54:12,635 --> 01:54:14,270
West development. And then we

4344
01:54:14,270 --> 01:54:15,338
go through ten, 11 and 12,

4345
01:54:15,338 --> 01:54:15,571
which is going to assure you

4346
01:54:15,571 --> 01:54:17,730
that it

4347
01:54:17,730 --> 01:54:18,541
s going to meet the

4348
01:54:18,541 --> 01:54:20,143
sort of the community standard,

4349
01:54:20,143 --> 01:54:23,113
if you will, out there with

4350
01:54:23,113 --> 01:54:26,113
what you see. And, um,

4351
01:54:26,684 --> 01:54:29,840
sidewalks, the parking, the.

4352
01:54:29,954 --> 01:54:31,522
Um, so whether they do it or

4353
01:54:31,522 --> 01:54:32,190
not, it they

4354
01:54:32,190 --> 01:54:33,891
re going to have

4355
01:54:33,891 --> 01:54:35,226
control over it.

4356
01:54:35,226 --> 01:54:36,761
Right. And those conditions

4357
01:54:36,761 --> 01:54:38,163
will follow the, the property.

4358
01:54:38,163 --> 01:54:39,832
Absolutely. Run with the land.

4359
01:54:39,832 --> 01:54:41,501
So it could be sold ten times

4360
01:54:41,501 --> 01:54:41,667
over. And and whoever does it

4361
01:54:41,667 --> 01:54:42,735
it

4362
01:54:42,735 --> 01:54:43,200
s going to have to it

4363
01:54:43,200 --> 01:54:43,870
s not

4364
01:54:43,870 --> 01:54:44,270
going to be sold ten times

4365
01:54:44,270 --> 01:54:46,270
over. But I

4366
01:54:46,539 --> 01:54:48,341
m just saying, um,

4367
01:54:48,341 --> 01:54:49,743
whoever has it has to meet all

4368
01:54:49,743 --> 01:54:51,177
of these conditions as well as

4369
01:54:51,177 --> 01:54:53,177
the code. Right.

4370
01:54:54,848 --> 01:54:56,883
Yeah. Um, I, I think that was

4371
01:54:56,883 --> 01:54:58,753
all my questions or comments. I

4372
01:54:58,753 --> 01:55:00,188
mean, beyond just echoing, I

4373
01:55:00,188 --> 01:55:01,189
think Commissioner Pollack had

4374
01:55:01,189 --> 01:55:03,158
mentioned, I mean, this is very

4375
01:55:03,158 --> 01:55:03,892
similar to a general rezoning.

4376
01:55:03,892 --> 01:55:04,993
Um, but it

4377
01:55:04,993 --> 01:55:06,194
s also similar to

4378
01:55:06,194 --> 01:55:07,796
you kind of having to do your

4379
01:55:07,796 --> 01:55:10,196
own infill development within

4380
01:55:10,732 --> 01:55:10,999
your master plan. Um, so thank

4381
01:55:10,999 --> 01:55:12,768
you.

4382
01:55:12,768 --> 01:55:14,768
Thank you.

4383
01:55:16,440 --> 01:55:16,673
Any other questions? Thank you

4384
01:55:16,673 --> 01:55:17,841
MISTER.

4385
01:55:17,841 --> 01:55:19,760
Thank you for your time and

4386
01:55:19,760 --> 01:55:20,310
consideration. I appreciate it.

4387
01:55:20,310 --> 01:55:20,577
Thank you. This time, I

4388
01:55:20,577 --> 01:55:22,577
d like

4389
01:55:22,679 --> 01:55:22,880
to open the public hearing. If

4390
01:55:22,880 --> 01:55:24,140
there

4391
01:55:24,140 --> 01:55:26,617
s anyone wishing to speak

4392
01:55:26,617 --> 01:55:29,119
in favor of agenda item number

4393
01:55:29,119 --> 01:55:32,119
two, please come up. Anyone

4394
01:55:32,257 --> 01:55:34,426
wishing to speak in favor?

4395
01:55:34,426 --> 01:55:37,426
Anyone wishing to speak in

4396
01:55:38,364 --> 01:55:40,165
opposition to agenda item two.

4397
01:55:40,165 --> 01:55:42,335
Anyone wishing to speak in

4398
01:55:42,335 --> 01:55:44,871
opposition. And we did receive

4399
01:55:44,871 --> 01:55:47,871
one written comment, which i

4400
01:55:48,740 --> 01:55:50,244
think everybody got today.

4401
01:55:50,244 --> 01:55:53,800
Same person on all three.

4402
01:55:53,800 --> 01:55:54,949
Yes, yes. Uh, but I believe I

4403
01:55:54,949 --> 01:55:56,918
think we in MISTER Nichols

4404
01:55:56,918 --> 01:55:59,186
addressed some of the items

4405
01:55:59,186 --> 01:56:01,550
that were brought up in that

4406
01:56:01,550 --> 01:56:02,290
hearing. No further, uh,

4407
01:56:02,290 --> 01:56:02,423
individuals wishing to speak.

4408
01:56:02,423 --> 01:56:03,825
I

4409
01:56:03,825 --> 01:56:04,359
ll close the public hearing

4410
01:56:04,359 --> 01:56:05,960
and we

4411
01:56:05,960 --> 01:56:07,563
ll start Commissioner

4412
01:56:07,563 --> 01:56:08,264
Jones, with you. Any thoughts?

4413
01:56:08,264 --> 01:56:08,397
Comments?

4414
01:56:08,397 --> 01:56:08,898
I

4415
01:56:08,898 --> 01:56:09,632
m good. Y

4416
01:56:09,632 --> 01:56:10,633
all asked every

4417
01:56:10,633 --> 01:56:12,168
question I could ever think

4418
01:56:12,168 --> 01:56:13,636
about asking.

4419
01:56:13,636 --> 01:56:13,770
Commissioner Woodruff.

4420
01:56:13,770 --> 01:56:15,672
I

4421
01:56:15,672 --> 01:56:16,606
m going to vote in favor

4422
01:56:16,606 --> 01:56:17,907
based upon staff

4423
01:56:17,907 --> 01:56:19,907
s statement

4424
01:56:20,110 --> 01:56:21,912
that this was pulling this

4425
01:56:21,912 --> 01:56:24,912
track out of the original

4426
01:56:25,249 --> 01:56:27,151
agreement and that the 1300

4427
01:56:27,151 --> 01:56:28,753
number is not applicable to

4428
01:56:28,753 --> 01:56:30,455
this anymore. So therefore, I

4429
01:56:30,455 --> 01:56:31,156
find it to be a great project.

4430
01:56:31,156 --> 01:56:32,570
Good luck.

4431
01:56:32,570 --> 01:56:33,391
Commissioner Pawlak.

4432
01:56:33,391 --> 01:56:35,791
Nothing further to add.

4433
01:56:36,261 --> 01:56:38,261
MR. Adams.

4434
01:56:38,263 --> 01:56:40,663
One clarifying question for

4435
01:56:40,699 --> 01:56:43,136
staff. This would be handled

4436
01:56:43,136 --> 01:56:45,238
under the regional Stormwater

4437
01:56:45,238 --> 01:56:46,206
design for all of Berkeley

4438
01:56:46,206 --> 01:56:47,341
West, right?

4439
01:56:47,341 --> 01:56:47,541
Yeah. All the properties out

4440
01:56:47,541 --> 01:56:47,707
there.

4441
01:56:47,707 --> 01:56:49,760
Are.

4442
01:56:49,760 --> 01:56:49,576
Subject to that regional pond.

4443
01:56:49,576 --> 01:56:49,943
Okay.

4444
01:56:49,943 --> 01:56:51,378
On this.

4445
01:56:51,378 --> 01:56:52,112
Side of the road? Yes.

4446
01:56:52,112 --> 01:56:54,112
Okay.

4447
01:56:54,314 --> 01:56:56,149
Um, it took me a while to get

4448
01:56:56,149 --> 01:56:57,518
comfortable with this because,

4449
01:56:57,518 --> 01:56:58,219
again, um.

4450
01:56:58,219 --> 01:57:00,219
i.

4451
01:57:00,355 --> 01:57:01,690
As a rule of principle, I like

4452
01:57:01,690 --> 01:57:03,625
seeing a site plan generally.

4453
01:57:03,625 --> 01:57:06,528
So we have some accountability

4454
01:57:06,528 --> 01:57:09,298
around design, but, um, knowing

4455
01:57:09,298 --> 01:57:11,600
the, the design guidelines of

4456
01:57:11,600 --> 01:57:14,600
the Berkeley West master plan,

4457
01:57:14,704 --> 01:57:17,274
the o and I, the city mu um,

4458
01:57:17,274 --> 01:57:19,376
you know, site plan guidelines.

4459
01:57:19,376 --> 01:57:20,811
It it took me a little bit also

4460
01:57:20,811 --> 01:57:22,120
just to, to I had to put my

4461
01:57:22,120 --> 01:57:22,780
brain around what could go

4462
01:57:22,780 --> 01:57:23,581
there because we

4463
01:57:23,581 --> 01:57:25,383
re not seeing

4464
01:57:25,383 --> 01:57:28,152
what a specific proposal would

4465
01:57:28,152 --> 01:57:30,522
be. And the napkin sketch to me

4466
01:57:30,522 --> 01:57:30,755
says, if you take Wilmington

4467
01:57:30,755 --> 01:57:32,490
Health

4468
01:57:32,490 --> 01:57:32,657
s building and parking,

4469
01:57:32,657 --> 01:57:33,658
you

4470
01:57:33,658 --> 01:57:36,696
re going to wind up with

4471
01:57:36,696 --> 01:57:39,232
plus or minus eight ish acres

4472
01:57:39,232 --> 01:57:41,968
of developable land, and you

4473
01:57:41,968 --> 01:57:45,380
divide that by 208 and you get

4474
01:57:45,380 --> 01:57:46,373
a density of about 20 to 23

4475
01:57:46,373 --> 01:57:48,441
units per acre, which is three

4476
01:57:48,441 --> 01:57:50,410
story, garden style apartments

4477
01:57:50,410 --> 01:57:51,878
in my mind. So I agree this is

4478
01:57:51,878 --> 01:57:53,481
the right place for for more

4479
01:57:53,481 --> 01:57:53,848
density. Um, and you know, I

4480
01:57:53,848 --> 01:57:55,216
ll

4481
01:57:55,216 --> 01:57:57,216
support this project.

4482
01:57:58,386 --> 01:58:00,322
Thank you, Commissioner Collier.

4483
01:58:00,322 --> 01:58:01,756
Other than to say I do agree,

4484
01:58:01,756 --> 01:58:03,225
the density is where it needs

4485
01:58:03,225 --> 01:58:05,761
to be in this project. Berkeley

4486
01:58:05,761 --> 01:58:06,928
is a great project. Never was

4487
01:58:06,928 --> 01:58:08,630
that in any question. I wanted

4488
01:58:08,630 --> 01:58:09,197
to make sure we the density

4489
01:58:09,197 --> 01:58:10,400
numbers were what we were

4490
01:58:10,400 --> 01:58:12,435
talking about. But I will

4491
01:58:12,435 --> 01:58:14,971
support it wholly. Thank you.

4492
01:58:14,971 --> 01:58:16,971
Commissioner Coffer.

4493
01:58:17,808 --> 01:58:19,808
Thank you.

4494
01:58:20,144 --> 01:58:20,744
I think the, um, I mean, it

4495
01:58:20,744 --> 01:58:20,911
s

4496
01:58:20,911 --> 01:58:21,845
it

4497
01:58:21,845 --> 01:58:22,980
s it

4498
01:58:22,980 --> 01:58:23,147
s just the approach and

4499
01:58:23,147 --> 01:58:24,315
it

4500
01:58:24,315 --> 01:58:24,715
s the procedure and it

4501
01:58:24,715 --> 01:58:26,117
s

4502
01:58:26,117 --> 01:58:28,253
having these come up before us

4503
01:58:28,253 --> 01:58:29,421
in different cases, outside of

4504
01:58:29,421 --> 01:58:31,323
a bubble plan, outside of a

4505
01:58:31,323 --> 01:58:32,691
master plan. How do you inject

4506
01:58:32,691 --> 01:58:34,930
it inside the master plan but

4507
01:58:34,930 --> 01:58:35,360
still evaluate it the same way

4508
01:58:35,360 --> 01:58:36,328
you would others? I mean, I

4509
01:58:36,328 --> 01:58:37,530
think the applicant asked

4510
01:58:37,530 --> 01:58:39,131
several times, or the counselor

4511
01:58:39,131 --> 01:58:40,399
asked, um, what is your concern

4512
01:58:40,399 --> 01:58:42,301
about putting this much density

4513
01:58:42,301 --> 01:58:42,468
on that site? Well, that we I

4514
01:58:42,468 --> 01:58:42,801
don

4515
01:58:42,801 --> 01:58:43,636
t think you

4516
01:58:43,636 --> 01:58:44,905
ve heard not

4517
01:58:44,905 --> 01:58:45,572
not a whole lot, but I had to

4518
01:58:45,572 --> 01:58:46,840
procedural it

4519
01:58:46,840 --> 01:58:48,642
s process and,

4520
01:58:48,642 --> 01:58:49,310
you know, um, not to it

4521
01:58:49,310 --> 01:58:49,710
s not

4522
01:58:49,710 --> 01:58:50,778
to say that you

4523
01:58:50,778 --> 01:58:52,460
re establishing

4524
01:58:52,460 --> 01:58:55,460
some sort of odd precedent,

4525
01:58:55,817 --> 01:58:58,820
but, um, you know, 208 in this

4526
01:58:58,820 --> 01:59:01,220
site within other Mayfair,

4527
01:59:01,589 --> 01:59:03,492
other other, you know, master

4528
01:59:03,492 --> 01:59:04,326
plans, but without a site plan

4529
01:59:04,326 --> 01:59:05,461
and without additional

4530
01:59:05,461 --> 01:59:06,896
questioning. I mean, it could

4531
01:59:06,896 --> 01:59:07,963
be it could be concerning

4532
01:59:07,963 --> 01:59:08,431
elsewhere, but I don

4533
01:59:08,431 --> 01:59:09,666
t think

4534
01:59:09,666 --> 01:59:11,167
there is a whole lot of concern

4535
01:59:11,167 --> 01:59:11,567
here in this particular site.

4536
01:59:11,567 --> 01:59:12,936
So, yes, I

4537
01:59:12,936 --> 01:59:15,405
m in favor of this

4538
01:59:15,405 --> 01:59:17,374
project or this rezoning.

4539
01:59:17,374 --> 01:59:18,875
I think this project has all

4540
01:59:18,875 --> 01:59:21,875
the buzzwords to get people

4541
01:59:22,246 --> 01:59:24,646
fired up. Density, apartments

4542
01:59:26,551 --> 01:59:29,551
change. Um, the agenda review.

4543
01:59:31,356 --> 01:59:33,859
This item took 90s maybe two

4544
01:59:33,859 --> 01:59:37,459
minutes to talk about. Um, and

4545
01:59:38,164 --> 01:59:40,200
so MISS Hopkins, I in no way my

4546
01:59:40,200 --> 01:59:41,701
suggestion, given what

4547
01:59:41,701 --> 01:59:43,236
transpired here tonight, is

4548
01:59:43,236 --> 01:59:46,440
that when this goes to council,

4549
01:59:46,440 --> 01:59:48,909
there be a more comprehensive

4550
01:59:48,909 --> 01:59:51,780
explanation of kind of where we

4551
01:59:51,780 --> 01:59:54,448
got to versus how long it took

4552
01:59:54,448 --> 01:59:57,219
us to get there, meaning, uh,

4553
01:59:57,219 --> 01:59:59,210
the large master plan. This is

4554
01:59:59,210 --> 01:59:59,822
a piece of that master plan.

4555
01:59:59,822 --> 02:00:00,288
This is what they

4556
02:00:00,288 --> 02:00:01,991
re asking

4557
02:00:01,991 --> 02:00:03,692
for. This is the outcome. And

4558
02:00:03,692 --> 02:00:07,292
ps, this is the perfect place

4559
02:00:07,630 --> 02:00:09,532
to do it. Um, because I think

4560
02:00:09,532 --> 02:00:13,270
it will go twice as long as it

4561
02:00:13,270 --> 02:00:14,905
did tonight. Um, otherwise. So

4562
02:00:14,905 --> 02:00:17,410
no, you did a great job. I

4563
02:00:17,410 --> 02:00:18,976
think. Just big picture going

4564
02:00:18,976 --> 02:00:20,644
through this experience. A

4565
02:00:20,644 --> 02:00:22,447
suggestion is to, uh, maybe

4566
02:00:22,447 --> 02:00:24,949
think about changing that up a

4567
02:00:24,949 --> 02:00:27,850
little bit. Um, everybody said

4568
02:00:27,850 --> 02:00:30,685
everything the right way to me.

4569
02:00:31,123 --> 02:00:32,258
This is a no brainer. So,

4570
02:00:32,258 --> 02:00:33,459
Commissioner Coffer, how would

4571
02:00:33,459 --> 02:00:34,160
you vote? Oh, I

4572
02:00:34,160 --> 02:00:35,394
m sorry. It

4573
02:00:35,394 --> 02:00:37,764
might help if somebody made a

4574
02:00:37,764 --> 02:00:41,364
motion first. What is the will

4575
02:00:43,603 --> 02:00:43,738
of the commission?

4576
02:00:43,738 --> 02:00:45,738
I

4577
02:00:45,872 --> 02:00:49,472
ll make a motion to approve.

4578
02:00:53,470 --> 02:00:53,181
Um, just give me one second.

4579
02:00:53,181 --> 02:00:54,482
I

4580
02:00:54,482 --> 02:00:55,684
ll make a motion to approve

4581
02:00:55,684 --> 02:00:58,620
agenda item number two. The

4582
02:00:58,620 --> 02:00:59,354
request to rezone 524 South

4583
02:00:59,354 --> 02:01:02,354
College Road. Is that the

4584
02:01:03,392 --> 02:01:04,928
correct one? Yes. Rezone from.

4585
02:01:04,928 --> 02:01:06,162
Oh and I cd office and

4586
02:01:06,162 --> 02:01:08,162
institutional conditional

4587
02:01:08,531 --> 02:01:09,866
district to a new cd office and

4588
02:01:09,866 --> 02:01:10,700
institutional conditional

4589
02:01:10,700 --> 02:01:12,302
district. The Planning

4590
02:01:12,302 --> 02:01:13,838
Commission um finds this

4591
02:01:13,838 --> 02:01:15,372
request to be consistent with

4592
02:01:15,372 --> 02:01:16,707
the objectives and policies of

4593
02:01:16,707 --> 02:01:17,674
the following plans adopted by

4594
02:01:17,674 --> 02:01:19,420
the City of Wilmington.

4595
02:01:19,420 --> 02:01:21,111
Commissioner Kupfer. Yes. Stop

4596
02:01:21,111 --> 02:01:23,615
you for a second. What is that

4597
02:01:23,615 --> 02:01:24,316
address?

4598
02:01:24,316 --> 02:01:26,316
Yeah.

4599
02:01:27,520 --> 02:01:30,520
On our paperwork, MISS Painter.

4600
02:01:33,659 --> 02:01:36,659
It says 524 South College Road.

4601
02:01:36,796 --> 02:01:39,796
That address should be 2 to 2

4602
02:01:41,135 --> 02:01:42,736
five Stonecrop Drive and 1124

4603
02:01:42,736 --> 02:01:43,971
Gallery Park Boulevard.

4604
02:01:43,971 --> 02:01:46,600
Okay, so just a point of order.

4605
02:01:46,600 --> 02:01:46,974
Can I. Can I write that on the.

4606
02:01:46,974 --> 02:01:47,708
Yes you can.

4607
02:01:47,708 --> 02:01:48,876
Yeah.

4608
02:01:48,876 --> 02:01:50,378
Okay. I

4609
02:01:50,378 --> 02:01:51,379
m sorry, Commissioner

4610
02:01:51,379 --> 02:01:52,120
Kupfer. I just wanted to

4611
02:01:52,120 --> 02:01:53,447
correct that.

4612
02:01:53,447 --> 02:01:54,482
So do I need to read that

4613
02:01:54,482 --> 02:01:56,718
address? Are you okay with

4614
02:01:56,718 --> 02:01:58,718
doing with right.

4615
02:01:58,854 --> 02:02:00,356
MR.. Sir.

4616
02:02:00,356 --> 02:02:00,956
Please read it again with that

4617
02:02:00,956 --> 02:02:02,625
address.

4618
02:02:02,625 --> 02:02:04,393
Okay. Can somebody, um, write

4619
02:02:04,393 --> 02:02:05,270
that down for me? I couldn

4620
02:02:05,270 --> 02:02:05,695
t

4621
02:02:05,695 --> 02:02:07,497
hear.

4622
02:02:07,497 --> 02:02:09,999
Hang on, hang on just one

4623
02:02:09,999 --> 02:02:11,999
second.

4624
02:02:12,350 --> 02:02:13,336
It should be on the agenda in

4625
02:02:13,336 --> 02:02:14,370
your packet. In your.

4626
02:02:14,370 --> 02:02:14,672
On the front.

4627
02:02:14,672 --> 02:02:15,573
Hang on.

4628
02:02:15,573 --> 02:02:17,573
Your folder.

4629
02:02:21,212 --> 02:02:23,281
I got it right here. The

4630
02:02:23,281 --> 02:02:24,816
address is going to be two two,

4631
02:02:24,816 --> 02:02:27,816
two five Stonecrop Drive and

4632
02:02:28,453 --> 02:02:28,920
1124 Gallery Park Boulevard.

4633
02:02:28,920 --> 02:02:30,456
Okay, let

4634
02:02:30,456 --> 02:02:31,858
s start over. I make

4635
02:02:31,858 --> 02:02:34,194
a motion to approve agenda item

4636
02:02:34,194 --> 02:02:37,194
number two. The request to

4637
02:02:37,664 --> 02:02:40,640
rezone 2225 Stonecrop Drive and

4638
02:02:40,300 --> 02:02:42,569
112 for Gallery Park Boulevard,

4639
02:02:42,569 --> 02:02:45,500
uh, from an existing oh and I

4640
02:02:45,500 --> 02:02:46,340
cd office and institutional

4641
02:02:46,340 --> 02:02:48,175
conditional district to a new

4642
02:02:48,175 --> 02:02:50,780
cd office and institutional

4643
02:02:50,780 --> 02:02:51,546
conditional district. Uh, the

4644
02:02:51,546 --> 02:02:52,914
Planning Commission finds this

4645
02:02:52,914 --> 02:02:54,383
request is consistent with the

4646
02:02:54,383 --> 02:02:55,651
objectives and policies of the

4647
02:02:55,651 --> 02:02:57,452
following plans adopted by the

4648
02:02:57,452 --> 02:02:59,455
City of Wilmington. The Create

4649
02:02:59,455 --> 02:03:00,623
Wilmington Comprehensive Plan.

4650
02:03:00,623 --> 02:03:01,957
Uh, the Planning Commission

4651
02:03:01,957 --> 02:03:03,359
considers its approval to be

4652
02:03:03,359 --> 02:03:05,728
reasonable and in the public

4653
02:03:05,728 --> 02:03:06,830
interest because the proposal

4654
02:03:06,830 --> 02:03:08,231
allows for additional

4655
02:03:08,231 --> 02:03:09,800
residential density and an

4656
02:03:09,800 --> 02:03:12,800
appropriate mix of uses and

4657
02:03:13,237 --> 02:03:15,172
proximity to services, while

4658
02:03:15,172 --> 02:03:17,172
remaining compatible with

4659
02:03:17,174 --> 02:03:18,843
existing character and

4660
02:03:18,843 --> 02:03:20,678
conditions. In the staff

4661
02:03:20,678 --> 02:03:22,246
report. Therefore, the Planning

4662
02:03:22,246 --> 02:03:24,246
Commission recommends approval

4663
02:03:24,917 --> 02:03:26,510
of this request.

4664
02:03:26,510 --> 02:03:27,453
Thank you, Commissioner Kupfer,

4665
02:03:27,453 --> 02:03:28,870
do we have a second?

4666
02:03:28,870 --> 02:03:29,989
Second.

4667
02:03:29,989 --> 02:03:30,823
Commissioner Jones a second.

4668
02:03:30,823 --> 02:03:32,823
Commissioner Cooper

4669
02:03:33,392 --> 02:03:35,270
s motion.

4670
02:03:35,270 --> 02:03:36,463
Commissioner Kerr for. A

4671
02:03:36,463 --> 02:03:38,164
commissioner. Collier. High

4672
02:03:38,164 --> 02:03:39,398
commissioner. Adams. Yes.

4673
02:03:39,398 --> 02:03:40,800
Commissioner. Pawlak. High

4674
02:03:40,800 --> 02:03:42,770
commissioner. Woodruff. High

4675
02:03:42,770 --> 02:03:45,170
commissioner. Jones. I the

4676
02:03:45,807 --> 02:03:48,207
chair. Votes. Passes 7 to 0.

4677
02:03:54,849 --> 02:03:57,849
Thank you very much. Agenda

4678
02:03:58,186 --> 02:04:01,186
item. Agenda item number three

4679
02:04:02,292 --> 02:04:04,961
is a request for 3301 Burnt

4680
02:04:04,961 --> 02:04:07,130
Mill drive to rezone from light

4681
02:04:07,130 --> 02:04:09,232
industrial to. Oni office and

4682
02:04:09,232 --> 02:04:11,232
institutional. And our

4683
02:04:11,735 --> 02:04:13,837
presenter is MISS Taylor.

4684
02:04:13,837 --> 02:04:14,972
All right. Good evening. Chair,

4685
02:04:14,972 --> 02:04:16,674
vice chair and members of the

4686
02:04:16,674 --> 02:04:18,243
Planning Commission. For your

4687
02:04:18,243 --> 02:04:21,113
review, I present a general

4688
02:04:21,113 --> 02:04:23,513
rezoning from Lee light

4689
02:04:24,349 --> 02:04:27,185
industry to Oni Office and

4690
02:04:27,185 --> 02:04:29,185
Institutional District at 3301

4691
02:04:31,791 --> 02:04:34,930
Mill Drive. This application

4692
02:04:34,930 --> 02:04:35,596
was submitted in mid-JULY, has

4693
02:04:35,596 --> 02:04:38,399
been reviewed by staff, and is

4694
02:04:38,399 --> 02:04:41,268
now at the first public hearing.

4695
02:04:41,268 --> 02:04:42,937
The site is currently zoned Lea

4696
02:04:42,937 --> 02:04:44,839
Light Industry and is occupied

4697
02:04:44,839 --> 02:04:47,408
by a single story multi-tenant

4698
02:04:47,408 --> 02:04:49,430
office building. The allowable

4699
02:04:49,430 --> 02:04:51,120
applicable uses in the Lea

4700
02:04:51,120 --> 02:04:53,120
district include professional

4701
02:04:53,616 --> 02:04:55,484
offices, light manufacturing,

4702
02:04:55,484 --> 02:04:57,486
wholesale, retail and warehouse

4703
02:04:57,486 --> 02:04:59,886
and distribution centers. The

4704
02:05:00,890 --> 02:05:02,124
maximum height is 45ft, with an

4705
02:05:02,124 --> 02:05:03,960
additional height of up to 96ft

4706
02:05:03,960 --> 02:05:05,695
allowed with a step. The

4707
02:05:05,695 --> 02:05:07,397
allowable applicable uses in

4708
02:05:07,397 --> 02:05:08,665
the proposed Oni district

4709
02:05:08,665 --> 02:05:10,665
include professional and

4710
02:05:10,801 --> 02:05:12,801
medical offices, personal

4711
02:05:13,400 --> 02:05:15,273
services, studios, and colleges

4712
02:05:15,273 --> 02:05:17,475
and universities. The maximum

4713
02:05:17,475 --> 02:05:19,644
height is again 45ft, with an

4714
02:05:19,644 --> 02:05:23,244
additional height of up to 96ft

4715
02:05:24,115 --> 02:05:26,151
allowed with a step back. The

4716
02:05:26,151 --> 02:05:28,121
site is located on Burnt Mill

4717
02:05:28,121 --> 02:05:29,923
Drive between Emerson Street

4718
02:05:29,923 --> 02:05:32,323
and Randall Parkway, and

4719
02:05:32,726 --> 02:05:34,661
consists of approximately 2.02

4720
02:05:34,661 --> 02:05:36,263
acres. The site is located

4721
02:05:36,263 --> 02:05:37,898
within the Burnt Mill Business

4722
02:05:37,898 --> 02:05:40,367
Park and is in the vicinity of

4723
02:05:40,367 --> 02:05:42,636
reserve at Forest Hills, Avalon

4724
02:05:42,636 --> 02:05:44,636
Apartments and Aspire 349

4725
02:05:44,806 --> 02:05:47,806
apartment complexes, as well as

4726
02:05:48,900 --> 02:05:49,511
an McCrary Park. These are

4727
02:05:49,511 --> 02:05:51,647
views of the property looking

4728
02:05:51,647 --> 02:05:54,647
north and northwest from Burnt

4729
02:05:55,830 --> 02:05:57,252
Mill Drive. The site is

4730
02:05:57,252 --> 02:05:59,421
currently zoned Lea Light

4731
02:05:59,421 --> 02:06:01,570
Industry, so zoning districts

4732
02:06:01,570 --> 02:06:02,859
neighboring the site include md

4733
02:06:02,859 --> 02:06:04,228
17 high density multiple

4734
02:06:04,228 --> 02:06:06,228
dwelling residential district

4735
02:06:06,496 --> 02:06:08,650
to the north and northwest, and

4736
02:06:08,650 --> 02:06:10,234
Oni Office and Institutional

4737
02:06:10,234 --> 02:06:12,634
District to the northeast.

4738
02:06:14,538 --> 02:06:17,341
East, south, and southwest. For

4739
02:06:17,341 --> 02:06:19,445
context, in JUNE of 2002,

4740
02:06:19,445 --> 02:06:20,913
approximately 42 acres of the

4741
02:06:20,913 --> 02:06:22,815
Burnt Mill Business park were

4742
02:06:22,815 --> 02:06:24,850
rezoned from lm Light

4743
02:06:24,850 --> 02:06:26,986
Manufacturing and wm Heavy

4744
02:06:26,986 --> 02:06:28,254
manufacturing to Oni to better

4745
02:06:28,254 --> 02:06:30,890
reflect the office oriented

4746
02:06:30,890 --> 02:06:31,190
character of the business park.

4747
02:06:31,190 --> 02:06:32,892
The owner of the subject

4748
02:06:32,892 --> 02:06:34,694
property requested not to be

4749
02:06:34,694 --> 02:06:36,496
included in the rezoning

4750
02:06:36,496 --> 02:06:37,665
application. Since the lm

4751
02:06:37,665 --> 02:06:37,932
district was appropriate for

4752
02:06:37,932 --> 02:06:39,801
the site

4753
02:06:39,801 --> 02:06:41,202
s use at the time as

4754
02:06:41,202 --> 02:06:42,603
the corporate headquarters of

4755
02:06:42,603 --> 02:06:45,603
an automotive, oil and gas

4756
02:06:46,674 --> 02:06:48,376
company. The site is currently

4757
02:06:48,376 --> 02:06:50,545
occupied by a single story

4758
02:06:50,545 --> 02:06:51,613
multi-tenant office building.

4759
02:06:51,613 --> 02:06:53,782
Uses of the surrounding

4760
02:06:53,782 --> 02:06:55,782
properties include educational

4761
02:06:56,619 --> 02:06:58,421
services to the northeast, a

4762
02:06:58,421 --> 02:06:59,456
k-8 school and construction

4763
02:06:59,456 --> 02:07:01,224
company office to the

4764
02:07:01,224 --> 02:07:02,458
southeast, social and

4765
02:07:02,458 --> 02:07:04,270
healthcare services to the

4766
02:07:04,270 --> 02:07:06,270
southwest, and healthcare

4767
02:07:07,431 --> 02:07:08,332
services to the west. Staff has

4768
02:07:08,332 --> 02:07:08,765
reviewed this application

4769
02:07:08,765 --> 02:07:10,667
s

4770
02:07:10,667 --> 02:07:12,237
alignment with relevant adopted

4771
02:07:12,237 --> 02:07:13,738
plans. The Wilmington

4772
02:07:13,738 --> 02:07:15,730
Comprehensive Plan is the only

4773
02:07:15,730 --> 02:07:17,876
adopted plan that applies to

4774
02:07:17,876 --> 02:07:19,578
this site. The Create

4775
02:07:19,578 --> 02:07:21,213
Wilmington Comprehensive Plans

4776
02:07:21,213 --> 02:07:23,810
Growth Strategies maps

4777
02:07:23,810 --> 02:07:24,783
identifies areas of opportunity

4778
02:07:24,783 --> 02:07:26,385
with corresponding policies to

4779
02:07:26,385 --> 02:07:28,587
guide the look, feel, and use

4780
02:07:28,587 --> 02:07:30,900
of new development. The site is

4781
02:07:30,900 --> 02:07:31,558
located within a live Work

4782
02:07:31,558 --> 02:07:33,930
Innovation Zones area of

4783
02:07:33,930 --> 02:07:35,162
opportunity and an employment

4784
02:07:35,162 --> 02:07:36,530
Academic center, and along a

4785
02:07:36,530 --> 02:07:38,930
special character street and

4786
02:07:39,833 --> 02:07:41,268
conceptual green connection.

4787
02:07:41,268 --> 02:07:43,700
The Create Wilmington

4788
02:07:43,700 --> 02:07:44,538
Comprehensive Plan also offers

4789
02:07:44,538 --> 02:07:45,539
broader policy guidance to

4790
02:07:45,539 --> 02:07:47,539
shape new development

4791
02:07:47,542 --> 02:07:48,944
throughout the city. Staff

4792
02:07:48,944 --> 02:07:50,479
assess this application with

4793
02:07:50,479 --> 02:07:51,881
the relevant policies and found

4794
02:07:51,881 --> 02:07:52,281
modest and strong support for

4795
02:07:52,281 --> 02:07:53,148
the application

4796
02:07:53,148 --> 02:07:55,148
s alignment

4797
02:07:55,885 --> 02:07:57,854
with the plan. Key policies

4798
02:07:57,854 --> 02:08:00,854
that support rezoning the site

4799
02:08:01,570 --> 02:08:03,590
at three 3301 Mill Drive from

4800
02:08:03,590 --> 02:08:04,161
Lee light industry to Oni

4801
02:08:04,161 --> 02:08:05,930
office and Institutional

4802
02:08:05,930 --> 02:08:07,198
District, promote compatible

4803
02:08:07,198 --> 02:08:08,933
mixed use development in

4804
02:08:08,933 --> 02:08:10,335
appropriate areas and the

4805
02:08:10,335 --> 02:08:12,270
redevelopment of industrial

4806
02:08:12,270 --> 02:08:13,905
land for non-industrial uses.

4807
02:08:13,905 --> 02:08:16,905
Where industrial activity is no

4808
02:08:19,444 --> 02:08:20,879
longer viable or appropriate.

4809
02:08:20,879 --> 02:08:22,315
Comments from the community are

4810
02:08:22,315 --> 02:08:24,918
accepted leading up to the

4811
02:08:24,918 --> 02:08:26,619
public hearing. Staff received

4812
02:08:26,619 --> 02:08:28,187
one comment in support of this

4813
02:08:28,187 --> 02:08:29,989
application, noting that

4814
02:08:29,989 --> 02:08:30,957
updating the zoning to Oni will

4815
02:08:30,957 --> 02:08:32,592
bring the parcel into

4816
02:08:32,592 --> 02:08:32,792
conformity with the business

4817
02:08:32,792 --> 02:08:34,792
park

4818
02:08:34,928 --> 02:08:36,496
s existing character.

4819
02:08:36,496 --> 02:08:38,499
Staff did not receive any

4820
02:08:38,499 --> 02:08:41,499
comments in opposition to this

4821
02:08:44,390 --> 02:08:44,906
request. To summarize the

4822
02:08:44,906 --> 02:08:45,340
application and staff

4823
02:08:45,340 --> 02:08:47,275
s

4824
02:08:47,275 --> 02:08:49,675
findings, rezoning the site,

4825
02:08:50,379 --> 02:08:52,714
located at 3301 Mill Drive from

4826
02:08:52,714 --> 02:08:53,983
Lee Light Industry to Oni

4827
02:08:53,983 --> 02:08:55,451
Office and Institutional

4828
02:08:55,451 --> 02:08:57,254
District, would create the

4829
02:08:57,254 --> 02:08:59,254
opportunity for office,

4830
02:08:59,289 --> 02:09:01,291
institutional and studio and

4831
02:09:01,291 --> 02:09:02,860
personal services uses with

4832
02:09:02,860 --> 02:09:04,127
potential to enhance access to

4833
02:09:04,127 --> 02:09:06,130
neighborhood goods and services

4834
02:09:06,130 --> 02:09:08,165
in the vicinity. Commercial

4835
02:09:08,165 --> 02:09:10,167
district mixed use or dmu is

4836
02:09:10,167 --> 02:09:11,680
also permitted in Oni, which

4837
02:09:11,680 --> 02:09:13,437
could further allow for

4838
02:09:13,437 --> 02:09:15,400
residential uses in the mix.

4839
02:09:15,400 --> 02:09:16,341
Staff finds this application to

4840
02:09:16,341 --> 02:09:18,143
align with the recommendations

4841
02:09:18,143 --> 02:09:19,612
of the Comprehensive Plan,

4842
02:09:19,612 --> 02:09:21,130
particularly policies that

4843
02:09:21,130 --> 02:09:22,648
promote office and academic

4844
02:09:22,648 --> 02:09:24,250
development while integrating

4845
02:09:24,250 --> 02:09:26,650
residential uses within mixed

4846
02:09:27,553 --> 02:09:28,921
use development areas. Staff

4847
02:09:28,921 --> 02:09:30,390
finds this request to be

4848
02:09:30,390 --> 02:09:32,590
reasonable in the public

4849
02:09:32,590 --> 02:09:33,227
interest and consistent with

4850
02:09:33,227 --> 02:09:34,695
the relevant policies in the

4851
02:09:34,695 --> 02:09:36,695
Create Wilmington Comprehensive

4852
02:09:38,266 --> 02:09:39,567
Plan. Staff recommends approval.

4853
02:09:39,567 --> 02:09:40,101
This concludes staff

4854
02:09:40,101 --> 02:09:41,690
s

4855
02:09:41,690 --> 02:09:41,536
presentation. I

4856
02:09:41,536 --> 02:09:43,710
m happy to

4857
02:09:43,710 --> 02:09:44,606
answer any questions, and the

4858
02:09:44,606 --> 02:09:46,574
applicant is here as well. And

4859
02:09:46,574 --> 02:09:48,343
she has a presentation as well.

4860
02:09:48,343 --> 02:09:49,812
Thank you. Thank you.

4861
02:09:49,812 --> 02:09:50,847
Commissioner Jones, any

4862
02:09:50,847 --> 02:09:52,481
questions?

4863
02:09:52,481 --> 02:09:54,170
Um, my only question at this

4864
02:09:54,170 --> 02:09:56,850
point is you said it could go

4865
02:09:56,850 --> 02:09:58,850
up to 96ft.

4866
02:09:58,870 --> 02:10:00,657
Yes, with an optional step

4867
02:10:00,657 --> 02:10:02,657
back. So it

4868
02:10:02,959 --> 02:10:03,593
s 45ft. And if they

4869
02:10:03,593 --> 02:10:03,693
make us, if they do, it

4870
02:10:03,693 --> 02:10:04,561
s.

4871
02:10:04,561 --> 02:10:05,595
Not many buildings.

4872
02:10:05,595 --> 02:10:05,796
And build it up to.

4873
02:10:05,796 --> 02:10:06,698
There

4874
02:10:06,698 --> 02:10:08,166
s not many buildings that

4875
02:10:08,166 --> 02:10:08,666
are even 45ft in that area.

4876
02:10:08,666 --> 02:10:09,968
And they

4877
02:10:09,968 --> 02:10:11,968
re mostly single

4878
02:10:12,103 --> 02:10:14,103
storey office buildings.

4879
02:10:15,741 --> 02:10:16,708
Yeah, I work in there. Um, my

4880
02:10:16,708 --> 02:10:19,108
suggestion would be to

4881
02:10:19,378 --> 02:10:19,811
condition it to the 45ft. The

4882
02:10:19,811 --> 02:10:21,313
uses. I

4883
02:10:21,313 --> 02:10:21,513
m fine with. So that

4884
02:10:21,513 --> 02:10:23,513
s

4885
02:10:23,984 --> 02:10:25,485
my only question.

4886
02:10:25,485 --> 02:10:26,787
Commissioner Jones.

4887
02:10:26,787 --> 02:10:28,689
Just for the record, they could

4888
02:10:28,689 --> 02:10:31,592
do that height today under the

4889
02:10:31,592 --> 02:10:33,160
existing Lee zoning. So? So

4890
02:10:33,160 --> 02:10:34,962
going going to Oni does not

4891
02:10:34,962 --> 02:10:35,162
change the height limit that

4892
02:10:35,162 --> 02:10:37,162
s

4893
02:10:38,320 --> 02:10:39,600
allowed.

4894
02:10:39,600 --> 02:10:41,302
Commissioner. Okay.

4895
02:10:41,302 --> 02:10:42,371
Commissioner. Woodruff.

4896
02:10:42,371 --> 02:10:44,139
Commissioner. Pawlak.

4897
02:10:44,139 --> 02:10:45,341
Commissioner. Adams.

4898
02:10:45,341 --> 02:10:47,443
Could you go back to the slide

4899
02:10:47,443 --> 02:10:51,430
that had the allowable uses for

4900
02:10:54,217 --> 02:10:55,651
the two zones?

4901
02:10:55,651 --> 02:10:57,651
Yes.

4902
02:10:58,554 --> 02:11:01,325
Is there anything about how the

4903
02:11:01,325 --> 02:11:02,893
building is being used today in

4904
02:11:02,893 --> 02:11:05,763
the ally zoning? That is a

4905
02:11:05,763 --> 02:11:07,732
nonconforming use that is

4906
02:11:07,732 --> 02:11:08,966
triggering a desire to go. Oh,

4907
02:11:08,966 --> 02:11:10,966
and I.

4908
02:11:13,338 --> 02:11:13,538
Um, the uses today are, um,

4909
02:11:13,538 --> 02:11:15,538
there

4910
02:11:16,241 --> 02:11:19,379
s an office for a custom

4911
02:11:19,379 --> 02:11:20,813
deck, and fence company, so I

4912
02:11:20,813 --> 02:11:23,316
believe that is allowed in. Oh,

4913
02:11:23,316 --> 02:11:25,785
and I but say a tenant comes in

4914
02:11:25,785 --> 02:11:27,721
with a request to develop or to

4915
02:11:27,721 --> 02:11:29,389
have a studio or a personal

4916
02:11:29,389 --> 02:11:32,125
service use, and that would not

4917
02:11:32,125 --> 02:11:33,593
be allowed. Um, whereas it is

4918
02:11:33,593 --> 02:11:35,830
compatible with the surrounding

4919
02:11:35,830 --> 02:11:36,965
character. So in a sense

4920
02:11:36,965 --> 02:11:38,767
rezoning to. Oh, and I would

4921
02:11:38,767 --> 02:11:39,601
allow for these additional uses

4922
02:11:39,601 --> 02:11:41,236
that would serve the

4923
02:11:41,236 --> 02:11:42,804
neighborhood to come in to, to

4924
02:11:42,804 --> 02:11:44,573
the building.

4925
02:11:44,573 --> 02:11:46,573
Okay. Thank you.

4926
02:11:47,175 --> 02:11:49,175
Commissioner Collier.

4927
02:11:50,746 --> 02:11:51,648
Commissioner coffer, thank you.

4928
02:11:51,648 --> 02:11:51,781
Thank you.

4929
02:11:51,781 --> 02:11:52,549
I

4930
02:11:52,549 --> 02:11:55,549
d like to invite the

4931
02:12:00,457 --> 02:12:01,925
applicant to come up.

4932
02:12:01,925 --> 02:12:02,159
Good evening. Chair, vice

4933
02:12:02,159 --> 02:12:02,559
chair.

4934
02:12:02,559 --> 02:12:03,360
And members.

4935
02:12:03,360 --> 02:12:04,461
Of the commission. I

4936
02:12:04,461 --> 02:12:04,962
m Andy Van

4937
02:12:04,962 --> 02:12:05,696
Treat. I

4938
02:12:05,696 --> 02:12:07,331
m an attorney with

4939
02:12:07,331 --> 02:12:08,599
Marks and Taylor and Gibson.

4940
02:12:08,599 --> 02:12:10,168
Um, appearing tonight on behalf

4941
02:12:10,168 --> 02:12:11,803
of the property owner, Kia

4942
02:12:11,803 --> 02:12:12,104
Properties llc. Um, we

4943
02:12:12,104 --> 02:12:13,720
re here

4944
02:12:13,720 --> 02:12:15,874
in support of our general

4945
02:12:15,874 --> 02:12:17,476
rezoning application for 3301

4946
02:12:17,476 --> 02:12:19,211
through 3305 Mill Drive in

4947
02:12:19,211 --> 02:12:20,312
Burwell Business Park. Um, as

4948
02:12:20,312 --> 02:12:20,479
Hillary just presented to you,

4949
02:12:20,479 --> 02:12:21,447
we

4950
02:12:21,447 --> 02:12:22,748
re requesting the rezoning

4951
02:12:22,748 --> 02:12:24,517
of a single two acre parcel

4952
02:12:24,517 --> 02:12:25,518
from light industrial, the

4953
02:12:25,518 --> 02:12:27,521
light industrial district to

4954
02:12:27,521 --> 02:12:28,822
office and institutional. The

4955
02:12:28,822 --> 02:12:29,790
subject property is already

4956
02:12:29,790 --> 02:12:30,858
fully developed, with an

4957
02:12:30,858 --> 02:12:31,792
existing single story,

4958
02:12:31,792 --> 02:12:32,526
multi-tenant commercial

4959
02:12:32,526 --> 02:12:33,594
building. I

4960
02:12:33,594 --> 02:12:35,796
m going to probably

4961
02:12:35,796 --> 02:12:37,310
shorten my spiel because,

4962
02:12:37,310 --> 02:12:39,100
frankly, this is a

4963
02:12:39,100 --> 02:12:39,701
straightforward request. Um,

4964
02:12:39,701 --> 02:12:41,200
its purpose isn

4965
02:12:41,200 --> 02:12:42,804
t to permit any

4966
02:12:42,804 --> 02:12:44,673
new construction or intensify

4967
02:12:44,673 --> 02:12:45,608
its permitted uses, but rather

4968
02:12:45,608 --> 02:12:45,941
to better align the property

4969
02:12:45,941 --> 02:12:47,276
s

4970
02:12:47,276 --> 02:12:48,745
zoning with its existing and

4971
02:12:48,745 --> 02:12:50,480
anticipated tenant uses, which

4972
02:12:50,480 --> 02:12:51,915
are essentially the uses that

4973
02:12:51,915 --> 02:12:53,483
are allowed in the oney, which

4974
02:12:53,483 --> 02:12:55,385
are also the uses that are in

4975
02:12:55,385 --> 02:12:56,686
most of the surrounding

4976
02:12:56,686 --> 02:12:59,860
properties in this business

4977
02:12:59,789 --> 02:13:01,759
park. Um, you know, Hillary

4978
02:13:01,759 --> 02:13:03,261
also talked about the history,

4979
02:13:03,261 --> 02:13:05,230
and it is actually helpful in

4980
02:13:05,230 --> 02:13:08,230
understanding how we got here.

4981
02:13:08,833 --> 02:13:10,902
Um, so, like she said in 2002,

4982
02:13:10,902 --> 02:13:13,438
the city rezoned the majority

4983
02:13:13,438 --> 02:13:14,640
of the other parcels in Burnt

4984
02:13:14,640 --> 02:13:16,174
Mill Business Park from the

4985
02:13:16,174 --> 02:13:18,174
former manufacturing districts

4986
02:13:19,120 --> 02:13:19,279
to, oh, and I, um, my client

4987
02:13:19,279 --> 02:13:20,447
s

4988
02:13:20,447 --> 02:13:21,748
property was not included in

4989
02:13:21,748 --> 02:13:22,883
that rezoning and therefore

4990
02:13:22,883 --> 02:13:24,351
retained its former light

4991
02:13:24,351 --> 02:13:26,751
manufacturing zoning, which is

4992
02:13:26,853 --> 02:13:28,655
now Lee. And that made sense

4993
02:13:28,655 --> 02:13:30,791
initially because, again, it

4994
02:13:30,791 --> 02:13:32,920
was the headquarters for Go Gas

4995
02:13:32,920 --> 02:13:33,994
and Automotive. An automotive

4996
02:13:33,994 --> 02:13:35,129
oil and gas company, which at

4997
02:13:35,129 --> 02:13:37,132
the time it was an

4998
02:13:37,132 --> 02:13:38,500
appropriately and appropriately

4999
02:13:38,500 --> 02:13:40,900
industrial use for an

5000
02:13:41,300 --> 02:13:42,371
industrial zoning district. But

5001
02:13:42,371 --> 02:13:44,473
today, the circumstances are

5002
02:13:44,473 --> 02:13:46,609
different. Go gas was sold in

5003
02:13:46,609 --> 02:13:47,843
2015. Its former owner, who

5004
02:13:47,843 --> 02:13:48,277
together with his wife Debbie

5005
02:13:48,277 --> 02:13:48,844
Austin, who

5006
02:13:48,844 --> 02:13:51,800
s here with me

5007
02:13:51,800 --> 02:13:52,748
tonight, owns Kia Properties

5008
02:13:52,748 --> 02:13:53,984
and has since maintained office

5009
02:13:53,984 --> 02:13:55,520
space at this property. While

5010
02:13:55,520 --> 02:13:55,953
it evolved over the last

5011
02:13:55,953 --> 02:13:56,820
several years into a

5012
02:13:56,820 --> 02:13:58,355
multi-tenant commercial

5013
02:13:58,355 --> 02:13:59,590
building serving office and

5014
02:13:59,590 --> 02:14:01,920
service oriented tenants like

5015
02:14:01,920 --> 02:14:01,959
those occupying the surrounding

5016
02:14:01,959 --> 02:14:03,461
properties in the business

5017
02:14:03,461 --> 02:14:06,461
park, the vast majority of

5018
02:14:06,731 --> 02:14:06,898
which are already owned by um.

5019
02:14:06,898 --> 02:14:08,600
Let

5020
02:14:08,600 --> 02:14:10,600
s see here.

5021
02:14:10,768 --> 02:14:12,380
Recently, Debbie undertook a

5022
02:14:12,380 --> 02:14:12,304
comprehensive review of the

5023
02:14:12,304 --> 02:14:13,139
property

5024
02:14:13,139 --> 02:14:14,607
s zoning when

5025
02:14:14,607 --> 02:14:16,175
evaluating a proposed lease of

5026
02:14:16,175 --> 02:14:17,777
space for use as a new dance

5027
02:14:17,777 --> 02:14:19,345
studio. That review brought

5028
02:14:19,345 --> 02:14:20,647
into focus the fact that as

5029
02:14:20,647 --> 02:14:22,810
neither a dance studio nor

5030
02:14:22,810 --> 02:14:23,349
other similar uses would likely

5031
02:14:23,349 --> 02:14:24,551
be permitted in the Lee

5032
02:14:24,551 --> 02:14:25,719
district. That zoning

5033
02:14:25,719 --> 02:14:27,354
designation is no longer the

5034
02:14:27,354 --> 02:14:28,956
best fit. The owner then

5035
02:14:28,956 --> 02:14:30,191
decided to proactively address

5036
02:14:30,191 --> 02:14:31,359
the issue and seek the zoning

5037
02:14:31,359 --> 02:14:32,293
classification that is most

5038
02:14:32,293 --> 02:14:33,394
appropriate for the property

5039
02:14:33,394 --> 02:14:34,395
over the long term, which in

5040
02:14:34,395 --> 02:14:37,310
our opinion, and I believe the

5041
02:14:37,310 --> 02:14:39,670
opinion of staff is. Oh, and I,

5042
02:14:39,670 --> 02:14:40,102
as noted in the staff report,

5043
02:14:40,102 --> 02:14:41,236
the district is intended to

5044
02:14:41,236 --> 02:14:42,738
accommodate professional and

5045
02:14:42,738 --> 02:14:43,972
medical offices, institutional

5046
02:14:43,972 --> 02:14:45,474
and assembly uses, and

5047
02:14:45,474 --> 02:14:46,543
complementary service uses,

5048
02:14:46,543 --> 02:14:48,578
including performing arts and

5049
02:14:48,578 --> 02:14:49,813
dance studios. Without the

5050
02:14:49,813 --> 02:14:51,448
additional intensity,

5051
02:14:51,448 --> 02:14:52,649
additional intensity associated

5052
02:14:52,649 --> 02:14:54,510
with broad commercial and

5053
02:14:54,510 --> 02:14:55,152
retail development. The

5054
02:14:55,152 --> 02:14:56,486
requested rezoning is a

5055
02:14:56,486 --> 02:14:56,987
logical, modest adjustment that

5056
02:14:56,987 --> 02:14:57,588
brings the property

5057
02:14:57,588 --> 02:14:58,622
s zoning

5058
02:14:58,622 --> 02:14:59,790
into conformity with its

5059
02:14:59,790 --> 02:15:00,390
current commercial function and

5060
02:15:00,390 --> 02:15:02,790
the character of the

5061
02:15:02,993 --> 02:15:04,262
surrounding development. The

5062
02:15:04,262 --> 02:15:04,563
rezoning is also well grounded

5063
02:15:04,563 --> 02:15:05,230
in the city

5064
02:15:05,230 --> 02:15:06,980
s zoned planning

5065
02:15:06,980 --> 02:15:06,698
policy, and I won

5066
02:15:06,698 --> 02:15:08,698
t belabor

5067
02:15:09,334 --> 02:15:10,936
that point. The staff concluded

5068
02:15:10,936 --> 02:15:12,738
that generally, the requested

5069
02:15:12,738 --> 02:15:15,738
rezoning is consistent with the

5070
02:15:18,770 --> 02:15:19,278
comprehensive plan. Um, the

5071
02:15:19,278 --> 02:15:21,348
requested rezoning will not

5072
02:15:21,348 --> 02:15:22,516
introduce a new or incompatible

5073
02:15:22,516 --> 02:15:23,450
development pattern into Burnt

5074
02:15:23,450 --> 02:15:24,585
Mill Business Park. It

5075
02:15:24,585 --> 02:15:26,120
essentially does the opposite

5076
02:15:26,120 --> 02:15:27,354
by bringing this remaining Li

5077
02:15:27,354 --> 02:15:28,189
parcel into a zoning district

5078
02:15:28,189 --> 02:15:28,456
that better reflects the

5079
02:15:28,456 --> 02:15:30,357
property

5080
02:15:30,357 --> 02:15:30,858
s current function and

5081
02:15:30,858 --> 02:15:31,325
the district that

5082
02:15:31,325 --> 02:15:32,326
s applied to

5083
02:15:32,326 --> 02:15:33,561
the surrounding properties for

5084
02:15:33,561 --> 02:15:35,730
more than 20 years. At this

5085
02:15:35,730 --> 02:15:36,965
point. We also believe the

5086
02:15:36,965 --> 02:15:38,266
impact of the requested

5087
02:15:38,266 --> 02:15:39,635
rezoning will be will be

5088
02:15:39,635 --> 02:15:40,870
minimal. All necessary

5089
02:15:40,870 --> 02:15:42,138
utilities and transportation

5090
02:15:42,138 --> 02:15:43,500
infrastructure is already in

5091
02:15:43,500 --> 02:15:44,400
place, sufficient to

5092
02:15:44,400 --> 02:15:46,440
accommodate the current and

5093
02:15:46,542 --> 02:15:48,770
anticipated only uses. The

5094
02:15:48,770 --> 02:15:49,780
owner is pursuing this rezoning

5095
02:15:49,780 --> 02:15:50,547
in good faith in order to

5096
02:15:50,547 --> 02:15:51,948
establish an appropriate long

5097
02:15:51,948 --> 02:15:53,149
term zoning classification for

5098
02:15:53,149 --> 02:15:54,851
the property, provide greater

5099
02:15:54,851 --> 02:15:55,986
certainty for its tenants, and

5100
02:15:55,986 --> 02:15:57,655
ensure that the property is

5101
02:15:57,655 --> 02:15:57,989
managed and used consistently

5102
02:15:57,989 --> 02:15:58,590
with the city

5103
02:15:58,590 --> 02:15:59,857
s land use

5104
02:15:59,857 --> 02:16:01,659
regulations and planning

5105
02:16:01,659 --> 02:16:03,270
objectives. The rezoning will

5106
02:16:03,270 --> 02:16:04,362
also promote the continued

5107
02:16:04,362 --> 02:16:05,230
productive use and reinvestment

5108
02:16:05,230 --> 02:16:06,264
of an existing commercial

5109
02:16:06,264 --> 02:16:07,732
building. Support local

5110
02:16:07,732 --> 02:16:09,234
businesses, and make efficient

5111
02:16:09,234 --> 02:16:10,802
use of existing public

5112
02:16:10,802 --> 02:16:11,637
infrastructure, all without

5113
02:16:11,637 --> 02:16:12,471
adversely affecting

5114
02:16:12,471 --> 02:16:14,400
neighborhood properties or

5115
02:16:14,400 --> 02:16:14,908
public facilities. For all

5116
02:16:14,908 --> 02:16:15,809
these reasons, and for the

5117
02:16:15,809 --> 02:16:16,910
reasons outlined in our

5118
02:16:16,910 --> 02:16:18,311
application and in the staff

5119
02:16:18,311 --> 02:16:19,112
report, we respectfully ask the

5120
02:16:19,112 --> 02:16:20,380
Commission to recommend

5121
02:16:20,380 --> 02:16:22,215
approval of the requested

5122
02:16:22,215 --> 02:16:22,382
rezoning. Thank you. And I

5123
02:16:22,382 --> 02:16:23,784
m

5124
02:16:23,784 --> 02:16:24,685
certainly here to try to answer

5125
02:16:24,685 --> 02:16:25,519
any questions you MAY have

5126
02:16:25,519 --> 02:16:27,519
about this request.

5127
02:16:28,622 --> 02:16:29,757
Thank you. Commissioner Cooper.

5128
02:16:29,757 --> 02:16:31,159
Um, I do not have any

5129
02:16:31,159 --> 02:16:32,994
questions. Thank you.

5130
02:16:32,994 --> 02:16:34,994
Commissioner Collier.

5131
02:16:35,497 --> 02:16:37,497
Commissioner Adams.

5132
02:16:40,502 --> 02:16:40,636
Commissioner Pawlak.

5133
02:16:40,636 --> 02:16:41,737
I

5134
02:16:41,737 --> 02:16:43,339
m going to try and phrase

5135
02:16:43,339 --> 02:16:44,440
this as politely as I can. I

5136
02:16:44,440 --> 02:16:46,442
drove by there today, and there

5137
02:16:46,442 --> 02:16:47,743
were names on the door. Okay.

5138
02:16:47,743 --> 02:16:50,143
And which looked like

5139
02:16:50,214 --> 02:16:50,681
occupants. Um, as I

5140
02:16:50,681 --> 02:16:51,949
m looking

5141
02:16:51,949 --> 02:16:53,250
at your presentation, it

5142
02:16:53,250 --> 02:16:54,718
appears to me that these

5143
02:16:54,718 --> 02:16:56,754
occupants are more that are

5144
02:16:56,754 --> 02:16:59,754
already. There are more. Oh,

5145
02:16:59,757 --> 02:17:01,426
and I centric. So are we to to

5146
02:17:01,426 --> 02:17:03,661
put it bluntly, are we asking

5147
02:17:03,661 --> 02:17:05,229
forgiveness? But to rezone? I

5148
02:17:05,229 --> 02:17:06,632
mean, it sounds like that the

5149
02:17:06,632 --> 02:17:07,333
people you want in there are

5150
02:17:07,333 --> 02:17:08,330
already there.

5151
02:17:08,330 --> 02:17:09,100
Well, that

5152
02:17:09,100 --> 02:17:09,168
s essentially what

5153
02:17:09,168 --> 02:17:11,168
we

5154
02:17:11,537 --> 02:17:13,206
re asking to better align

5155
02:17:13,206 --> 02:17:14,473
the zoning with the existing

5156
02:17:14,473 --> 02:17:16,242
uses, which are also the uses

5157
02:17:16,242 --> 02:17:19,780
that are most appropriate. So

5158
02:17:19,780 --> 02:17:21,514
this this is sort of the reason

5159
02:17:21,514 --> 02:17:22,616
that the history is helpful is

5160
02:17:22,616 --> 02:17:23,784
that, you know, in the last

5161
02:17:23,784 --> 02:17:25,252
several years, I think I said

5162
02:17:25,252 --> 02:17:26,621
2015 was when gas was sold. It

5163
02:17:26,621 --> 02:17:27,722
was a few years after that one

5164
02:17:27,722 --> 02:17:28,356
tenant came in and then

5165
02:17:28,356 --> 02:17:28,923
another. And it

5166
02:17:28,923 --> 02:17:31,323
s been kind of

5167
02:17:31,993 --> 02:17:33,161
a slow transition to a building

5168
02:17:33,161 --> 02:17:35,263
that was really only used by

5169
02:17:35,263 --> 02:17:36,498
the owner to becoming a

5170
02:17:36,498 --> 02:17:38,498
multi-tenant commercial

5171
02:17:40,269 --> 02:17:42,669
building. Um, only recently,

5172
02:17:42,872 --> 02:17:45,342
um, has Debbie stepped in to

5173
02:17:45,342 --> 02:17:47,878
handle a lot of the, um,

5174
02:17:47,878 --> 02:17:49,479
management and operation of the

5175
02:17:49,479 --> 02:17:51,915
of k properties, including the

5176
02:17:51,915 --> 02:17:53,350
property management. Um, and in

5177
02:17:53,350 --> 02:17:55,319
the course of that transition

5178
02:17:55,319 --> 02:17:57,187
has had occasion to look a

5179
02:17:57,187 --> 02:18:00,187
little bit more into the

5180
02:18:00,291 --> 02:18:02,260
current zoning and existing

5181
02:18:02,260 --> 02:18:03,595
uses, as well as obviously

5182
02:18:03,595 --> 02:18:04,796
evaluating other tenants that

5183
02:18:04,796 --> 02:18:06,231
are coming to her wanting to

5184
02:18:06,231 --> 02:18:07,232
lease the open space in the

5185
02:18:07,232 --> 02:18:08,330
building. So it

5186
02:18:08,330 --> 02:18:10,433
s sort of all

5187
02:18:11,370 --> 02:18:12,304
just came about within the last

5188
02:18:12,304 --> 02:18:14,840
I mean, certainly this year,

5189
02:18:14,840 --> 02:18:15,574
very recently. Um, and as she

5190
02:18:15,574 --> 02:18:16,109
discovered that that

5191
02:18:16,109 --> 02:18:16,276
s why

5192
02:18:16,276 --> 02:18:18,178
we

5193
02:18:18,178 --> 02:18:20,280
ve brought this to you and

5194
02:18:20,280 --> 02:18:21,615
tried to trying to correct this,

5195
02:18:21,615 --> 02:18:22,116
because I think it

5196
02:18:22,116 --> 02:18:23,150
s clear to

5197
02:18:23,150 --> 02:18:24,618
everybody that, oh, and I is

5198
02:18:24,618 --> 02:18:26,530
the most appropriate, um,

5199
02:18:26,530 --> 02:18:27,588
district for the property, not

5200
02:18:27,588 --> 02:18:29,624
just because of the existing

5201
02:18:29,624 --> 02:18:32,160
uses, but also because it just

5202
02:18:32,160 --> 02:18:35,798
is because of the way that the,

5203
02:18:35,798 --> 02:18:36,866
um, overall park is, is

5204
02:18:36,866 --> 02:18:38,866
operated now.

5205
02:18:40,369 --> 02:18:41,537
Okay. Thank you.

5206
02:18:41,537 --> 02:18:43,206
Commissioner Jones, you have

5207
02:18:43,206 --> 02:18:43,906
anything? Okay.

5208
02:18:43,906 --> 02:18:45,906
Thank you.

5209
02:18:46,843 --> 02:18:47,443
Thank you.

5210
02:18:47,443 --> 02:18:48,440
At this time, I

5211
02:18:48,440 --> 02:18:49,646
d like to open

5212
02:18:49,646 --> 02:18:49,846
the public hearing and ask if

5213
02:18:49,846 --> 02:18:51,315
there

5214
02:18:51,315 --> 02:18:54,850
s anyone wishing to speak

5215
02:18:54,850 --> 02:18:56,587
in favor of agenda item number

5216
02:18:56,587 --> 02:18:59,587
three. Anyone wishing to speak

5217
02:18:59,991 --> 02:19:01,426
in favor. Hearing none. Is

5218
02:19:01,426 --> 02:19:03,862
there anyone wishing to speak

5219
02:19:03,862 --> 02:19:06,331
in opposition to agenda item

5220
02:19:06,331 --> 02:19:08,835
number three? Anyone wishing to

5221
02:19:08,835 --> 02:19:10,637
speak in opposition? For the

5222
02:19:10,637 --> 02:19:14,237
record, as noted, we did have

5223
02:19:14,607 --> 02:19:16,810
one. Um, submittal via the

5224
02:19:16,810 --> 02:19:18,311
website, which was distributed

5225
02:19:18,311 --> 02:19:20,711
to the Planning Commission

5226
02:19:22,182 --> 02:19:25,452
today in favor of this. Um,

5227
02:19:25,452 --> 02:19:26,955
request. So, uh, hearing no

5228
02:19:26,955 --> 02:19:29,357
further comments, I will close

5229
02:19:29,357 --> 02:19:31,293
the public hearing and

5230
02:19:31,293 --> 02:19:32,661
Commissioner Jones, any

5231
02:19:32,661 --> 02:19:33,662
comments? Thoughts?

5232
02:19:33,662 --> 02:19:34,196
No.

5233
02:19:34,196 --> 02:19:34,763
Good.

5234
02:19:34,763 --> 02:19:36,763
All good.

5235
02:19:37,966 --> 02:19:38,100
MR. Pawlak. Commissioner Adams.

5236
02:19:38,100 --> 02:19:40,100
I

5237
02:19:40,169 --> 02:19:42,400
ll just say I kind of

5238
02:19:42,400 --> 02:19:44,241
appreciate the honesty and the

5239
02:19:44,241 --> 02:19:46,577
transparency around maybe what

5240
02:19:46,577 --> 02:19:48,345
is triggering this. So, um,

5241
02:19:48,345 --> 02:19:49,913
thank you for doing that. And,

5242
02:19:49,913 --> 02:19:52,490
uh, I think this is a great

5243
02:19:52,490 --> 02:19:53,484
thing to support and do.

5244
02:19:53,484 --> 02:19:55,484
MR. Collier. Commissioner,

5245
02:19:56,454 --> 02:19:57,555
cover for me. All I had to do

5246
02:19:57,555 --> 02:19:58,756
is look at the map with the

5247
02:19:58,756 --> 02:20:01,930
gray square in the middle of

5248
02:20:01,930 --> 02:20:04,960
the blue, and that that kind

5249
02:20:04,960 --> 02:20:05,698
of. Okay, what is the will of

5250
02:20:05,698 --> 02:20:07,990
the commission?

5251
02:20:07,990 --> 02:20:08,601
MR. CHAIRMAN? I guess be

5252
02:20:08,601 --> 02:20:11,601
prepared to make a motion,

5253
02:20:13,740 --> 02:20:15,475
please. As for agenda item

5254
02:20:15,475 --> 02:20:18,475
number three, the request to

5255
02:20:18,913 --> 02:20:20,815
rezone 3301 Burnt Mill Drive

5256
02:20:20,815 --> 02:20:22,517
from light industrial to Oni

5257
02:20:22,517 --> 02:20:24,850
office and institutional um

5258
02:20:24,850 --> 02:20:25,887
recommend approval. This

5259
02:20:25,887 --> 02:20:27,221
request is consistent with the

5260
02:20:27,221 --> 02:20:28,490
objectives and policies of the

5261
02:20:28,490 --> 02:20:30,692
following plans adopted by the

5262
02:20:30,692 --> 02:20:32,561
City of Wilmington. The Create

5263
02:20:32,561 --> 02:20:33,828
Wilmington Comprehensive Plan.

5264
02:20:33,828 --> 02:20:35,163
The Planning Commission

5265
02:20:35,163 --> 02:20:36,265
considers its approval to be

5266
02:20:36,265 --> 02:20:38,134
reasonable and in the public

5267
02:20:38,134 --> 02:20:39,936
interest. Because the proposed

5268
02:20:39,936 --> 02:20:41,604
rezoning is consistent with the

5269
02:20:41,604 --> 02:20:43,139
properties and is compatible

5270
02:20:43,139 --> 02:20:44,107
with the surrounding area.

5271
02:20:44,107 --> 02:20:46,107
Therefore, the Planning

5272
02:20:46,476 --> 02:20:48,476
Commission recommends approval

5273
02:20:48,945 --> 02:20:50,130
of this request.

5274
02:20:50,130 --> 02:20:51,810
We have a motion from

5275
02:20:51,810 --> 02:20:53,217
Commissioner Adams. Do we have

5276
02:20:53,217 --> 02:20:53,952
a second?

5277
02:20:53,952 --> 02:20:55,952
Second.

5278
02:20:56,154 --> 02:20:58,990
We have a second. Uh,

5279
02:20:58,990 --> 02:21:00,990
Commissioner Jones.

5280
02:21:01,526 --> 02:21:02,794
A yes.

5281
02:21:02,794 --> 02:21:02,928
Commissioner Adams.

5282
02:21:02,928 --> 02:21:03,829
I

5283
02:21:03,829 --> 02:21:04,363
m gonna go with a at this

5284
02:21:04,363 --> 02:21:05,564
time.

5285
02:21:05,564 --> 02:21:06,932
Okay. Commissioner Collier.

5286
02:21:06,932 --> 02:21:08,330
Hi.

5287
02:21:08,330 --> 02:21:10,330
Hi.

5288
02:21:10,169 --> 02:21:12,569
Chair votes I passes

5289
02:21:17,440 --> 02:21:19,444
unanimously 7 to 0. Thank you.

5290
02:21:20,800 --> 02:21:22,449
All right. Um, that concludes

5291
02:21:22,449 --> 02:21:24,585
the item of items of business.

5292
02:21:24,585 --> 02:21:25,486
Do we have any items from the

5293
02:21:25,486 --> 02:21:27,486
commissioner? Commissioner

5294
02:21:31,760 --> 02:21:33,529
Cooper, start with you.

5295
02:21:33,529 --> 02:21:36,632
My little mic here is coming on

5296
02:21:36,632 --> 02:21:38,340
and off. I got it. This MAY not

5297
02:21:38,340 --> 02:21:38,167
be my last meeting. From what

5298
02:21:38,167 --> 02:21:39,869
I

5299
02:21:39,869 --> 02:21:40,102
ve heard from staff, so i

5300
02:21:40,102 --> 02:21:42,102
ll

5301
02:21:42,238 --> 02:21:44,700
save any of those comments for

5302
02:21:44,700 --> 02:21:45,943
for the next one. But for those

5303
02:21:45,943 --> 02:21:47,244
of, um, our peers and

5304
02:21:47,244 --> 02:21:48,379
colleagues and friends here on

5305
02:21:48,379 --> 02:21:51,315
the commission, that this will

5306
02:21:51,315 --> 02:21:53,218
be your last meeting. I most

5307
02:21:53,218 --> 02:21:54,686
enjoyed our time together. Uh,

5308
02:21:54,686 --> 02:21:56,654
what a great think tank that

5309
02:21:56,654 --> 02:21:56,821
this body is. Uh, I think it

5310
02:21:56,821 --> 02:21:58,556
s

5311
02:21:58,556 --> 02:22:00,525
just so well rounded. I like

5312
02:22:00,525 --> 02:22:00,725
the fact that we, uh, we don

5313
02:22:00,725 --> 02:22:02,127
t

5314
02:22:02,127 --> 02:22:04,530
all agree. And even when we do

5315
02:22:04,530 --> 02:22:05,832
agree, we come at the

5316
02:22:05,832 --> 02:22:08,232
discussion from so many

5317
02:22:08,401 --> 02:22:08,768
different angles that, um, it

5318
02:22:08,768 --> 02:22:10,170
s

5319
02:22:10,170 --> 02:22:11,404
just a I think a think tank is

5320
02:22:11,404 --> 02:22:11,571
the best way to put it. I think

5321
02:22:11,571 --> 02:22:13,730
it

5322
02:22:13,730 --> 02:22:16,476
s a great, uh, service to

5323
02:22:16,476 --> 02:22:17,511
the city council and, um, and

5324
02:22:17,511 --> 02:22:18,779
hopefully the citizens of

5325
02:22:18,779 --> 02:22:20,481
Wilmington think the same way.

5326
02:22:20,481 --> 02:22:20,680
And I feel like everyone here

5327
02:22:20,680 --> 02:22:22,517
that

5328
02:22:22,517 --> 02:22:23,885
s, um, shares their

5329
02:22:23,885 --> 02:22:26,285
comments, shares their thoughts

5330
02:22:26,588 --> 02:22:28,657
and how they got to. Yes. Or

5331
02:22:28,657 --> 02:22:30,920
how they got to know just

5332
02:22:30,920 --> 02:22:32,461
instills more of that public

5333
02:22:32,461 --> 02:22:34,363
trust and transparency. And,

5334
02:22:34,363 --> 02:22:36,265
um, and the land use process

5335
02:22:36,265 --> 02:22:37,800
and how we go about zoning. So

5336
02:22:37,800 --> 02:22:39,169
and a special thanks to, um,

5337
02:22:39,169 --> 02:22:39,670
John Lennon, the chair who

5338
02:22:39,670 --> 02:22:41,638
s

5339
02:22:41,638 --> 02:22:43,440
done a remarkable job leading,

5340
02:22:43,440 --> 02:22:45,576
um, this group on several

5341
02:22:45,576 --> 02:22:48,479
occasions. And, um, and MISTER

5342
02:22:48,479 --> 02:22:49,613
Commissioner Woodruff, uh,

5343
02:22:49,613 --> 02:22:50,981
farewell. That

5344
02:22:50,981 --> 02:22:52,490
s my only

5345
02:22:52,490 --> 02:22:54,490
comment.

5346
02:22:55,319 --> 02:22:57,719
Thank you, Commissioner Collier.

5347
02:22:57,756 --> 02:22:59,625
No, not a lot of comments. Uh,

5348
02:22:59,625 --> 02:23:01,494
I would like to thank the

5349
02:23:01,494 --> 02:23:03,950
outgoing commission, because i

5350
02:23:03,950 --> 02:23:04,764
do believe that we have been a

5351
02:23:04,764 --> 02:23:06,320
very, very good group together.

5352
02:23:06,320 --> 02:23:07,600
And we do think about things in

5353
02:23:07,600 --> 02:23:09,680
different ways, which makes it

5354
02:23:09,680 --> 02:23:10,503
for good, good discussion,

5355
02:23:10,503 --> 02:23:12,272
sometimes way too lively and

5356
02:23:12,272 --> 02:23:14,740
way too long, but good

5357
02:23:14,740 --> 02:23:14,241
discussion. CHAIRMAN Lennon,

5358
02:23:14,241 --> 02:23:15,900
you

5359
02:23:15,900 --> 02:23:16,770
ve done a great job this

5360
02:23:16,770 --> 02:23:16,477
last year. We appreciate

5361
02:23:16,477 --> 02:23:17,411
everything you

5362
02:23:17,411 --> 02:23:18,120
ve done and

5363
02:23:18,120 --> 02:23:18,512
certainly hope you

5364
02:23:18,512 --> 02:23:19,413
ll sit out a

5365
02:23:19,413 --> 02:23:20,682
year and come back.

5366
02:23:20,682 --> 02:23:21,215
So thank you.

5367
02:23:21,215 --> 02:23:23,215
Yes, sir.

5368
02:23:23,751 --> 02:23:23,918
Commissioner Adams.

5369
02:23:23,918 --> 02:23:25,918
It

5370
02:23:26,210 --> 02:23:27,822
s hard to pile on much more

5371
02:23:27,822 --> 02:23:29,624
than that, but, um. Yeah. Thank

5372
02:23:29,624 --> 02:23:29,958
you John. Thank you. Ron. Um,

5373
02:23:29,958 --> 02:23:31,661
John, it

5374
02:23:31,661 --> 02:23:34,597
s been great to serve

5375
02:23:34,597 --> 02:23:36,366
as your, uh, co-chair. Um, so I

5376
02:23:36,366 --> 02:23:38,468
wish you both well. Thank you.

5377
02:23:38,468 --> 02:23:40,103
Thank you, Commissioner Pollock.

5378
02:23:40,103 --> 02:23:42,505
A couple of things before I get

5379
02:23:42,505 --> 02:23:45,308
to the, uh, personal comments.

5380
02:23:45,308 --> 02:23:47,444
Um, to the to the staff. Can we

5381
02:23:47,444 --> 02:23:50,381
consider changing a policy? And

5382
02:23:50,381 --> 02:23:52,317
the policy is simply we wait

5383
02:23:52,317 --> 02:23:54,586
till, like, 3:00 on the day of

5384
02:23:54,586 --> 02:23:56,621
a meeting to for, you know, to

5385
02:23:56,621 --> 02:23:58,290
put out any comments that come

5386
02:23:58,290 --> 02:23:59,257
in on the website. Is it

5387
02:23:59,257 --> 02:24:00,859
possible to change the

5388
02:24:00,859 --> 02:24:03,259
procedure that says the

5389
02:24:03,595 --> 02:24:05,264
comments, you know, come in and

5390
02:24:05,264 --> 02:24:06,933
end of business the day before?

5391
02:24:06,933 --> 02:24:08,535
So then the morning of a

5392
02:24:08,535 --> 02:24:09,469
meeting you can forward those

5393
02:24:09,469 --> 02:24:10,837
out. So we have a little bit

5394
02:24:10,837 --> 02:24:12,939
more time to look at them. Just

5395
02:24:12,939 --> 02:24:15,339
something to consider. Process

5396
02:24:17,344 --> 02:24:17,511
change. Is it.

5397
02:24:17,511 --> 02:24:18,612
We

5398
02:24:18,612 --> 02:24:20,548
ll have to take a look to

5399
02:24:20,548 --> 02:24:21,649
see where the 3:00 comes from.

5400
02:24:21,649 --> 02:24:23,452
Yeah, please.

5401
02:24:23,452 --> 02:24:24,887
To to determine that.

5402
02:24:24,887 --> 02:24:26,887
Okay.

5403
02:24:27,823 --> 02:24:28,691
Um, this the second thing is I

5404
02:24:28,691 --> 02:24:30,691
understand you

5405
02:24:30,693 --> 02:24:33,930
ve had a staff

5406
02:24:35,698 --> 02:24:35,865
addition. Um.

5407
02:24:35,865 --> 02:24:37,166
We

5408
02:24:37,166 --> 02:24:37,834
ll cover that under staff

5409
02:24:37,834 --> 02:24:38,935
reports.

5410
02:24:38,935 --> 02:24:40,935
Okay? Okay.

5411
02:24:42,273 --> 02:24:43,641
I guess then, John, it, you

5412
02:24:43,641 --> 02:24:45,409
know, thank you for your

5413
02:24:45,409 --> 02:24:45,542
leadership. You know, I know

5414
02:24:45,542 --> 02:24:46,577
I

5415
02:24:46,577 --> 02:24:47,778
ve kidded you before, it

5416
02:24:47,778 --> 02:24:49,130
says, are we ever going to have

5417
02:24:49,130 --> 02:24:49,914
anything to do? Because some of

5418
02:24:49,914 --> 02:24:51,449
our meetings have been pretty

5419
02:24:51,449 --> 02:24:52,784
light. But I appreciate your

5420
02:24:52,784 --> 02:24:54,419
sense of humor. I appreciate

5421
02:24:54,419 --> 02:24:56,454
your your guidance. And thank

5422
02:24:56,454 --> 02:24:58,570
you for your, your, uh, you

5423
02:24:58,570 --> 02:24:59,859
know, your custodian of the

5424
02:24:59,859 --> 02:25:01,260
chair. I appreciate that very

5425
02:25:01,260 --> 02:25:01,894
much, Ron. I

5426
02:25:01,894 --> 02:25:04,294
m going to MISS

5427
02:25:04,497 --> 02:25:05,765
The carpooling, buddy, but you

5428
02:25:05,765 --> 02:25:05,932
only live around the block, so

5429
02:25:05,932 --> 02:25:06,366
we

5430
02:25:06,366 --> 02:25:07,367
ll we

5431
02:25:07,367 --> 02:25:08,635
ll stay in touch. But

5432
02:25:08,635 --> 02:25:12,105
thank you for your service. I

5433
02:25:12,105 --> 02:25:14,105
appreciate it.

5434
02:25:14,241 --> 02:25:16,440
Uh, I really welcomed

5435
02:25:16,440 --> 02:25:18,346
everybody. Great people, great

5436
02:25:18,346 --> 02:25:19,581
staff. Um, but I know this is

5437
02:25:19,581 --> 02:25:22,551
not going to be what I watch on

5438
02:25:22,551 --> 02:25:22,984
tv on Tuesday nights.

5439
02:25:22,984 --> 02:25:24,984
My mother

5440
02:25:26,121 --> 02:25:27,923
s still watching.

5441
02:25:27,923 --> 02:25:28,560
Um, yes. Thank you to both of

5442
02:25:28,560 --> 02:25:29,458
y

5443
02:25:29,458 --> 02:25:31,226
all. John, thank you for

5444
02:25:31,226 --> 02:25:31,960
serving as chair. And I

5445
02:25:31,960 --> 02:25:32,940
m sure

5446
02:25:32,940 --> 02:25:34,940
I

5447
02:25:34,297 --> 02:25:35,532
ll see you very often. Um,

5448
02:25:35,532 --> 02:25:35,899
Ron, I hope I get to see you

5449
02:25:35,899 --> 02:25:37,000
often. I

5450
02:25:37,000 --> 02:25:38,568
ve enjoyed working

5451
02:25:38,568 --> 02:25:41,572
with you and and getting to

5452
02:25:41,572 --> 02:25:43,173
know you better.

5453
02:25:43,173 --> 02:25:44,508
Um, thank you all. This has

5454
02:25:44,508 --> 02:25:47,511
been awesome. This has been a

5455
02:25:47,511 --> 02:25:49,180
fantastic group. Um, shout out

5456
02:25:49,180 --> 02:25:52,840
to Jake Lyle, who sort of

5457
02:25:52,840 --> 02:25:53,785
prepared me for all this. Um, I

5458
02:25:53,785 --> 02:25:55,487
think I would leave you with

5459
02:25:55,487 --> 02:25:55,854
this thought. Um, no, it

5460
02:25:55,854 --> 02:25:56,522
s not

5461
02:25:56,522 --> 02:25:58,324
a lesson. It

5462
02:25:58,324 --> 02:25:59,859
s just an opinion.

5463
02:25:59,859 --> 02:26:01,560
I wake up every morning. Thank

5464
02:26:01,560 --> 02:26:03,930
GOD I live in a place that is

5465
02:26:03,930 --> 02:26:05,965
growing, um, that is thriving

5466
02:26:05,965 --> 02:26:07,700
economically, where our biggest

5467
02:26:07,700 --> 02:26:09,169
worry is what our bridge is

5468
02:26:09,169 --> 02:26:12,206
going to look like, because we

5469
02:26:12,206 --> 02:26:14,675
even get to build a bridge. Um,

5470
02:26:14,675 --> 02:26:18,246
so that comes at a cost. And

5471
02:26:18,246 --> 02:26:20,181
that cost is growth. Um, but I

5472
02:26:20,181 --> 02:26:21,816
would just ask that we

5473
02:26:21,816 --> 02:26:24,786
constantly remember this is the

5474
02:26:24,786 --> 02:26:27,890
planning Commission, not the

5475
02:26:27,890 --> 02:26:29,425
reaction Commission, not the

5476
02:26:29,425 --> 02:26:29,692
Public Opinion Commission. It

5477
02:26:29,692 --> 02:26:31,361
s

5478
02:26:31,361 --> 02:26:31,894
the planning commission. So we

5479
02:26:31,894 --> 02:26:33,894
take the city

5480
02:26:34,197 --> 02:26:36,432
s codes and, um,

5481
02:26:36,432 --> 02:26:38,201
restrictions and regulations,

5482
02:26:38,201 --> 02:26:42,401
and we look at a project based

5483
02:26:42,873 --> 02:26:44,575
on that period. Um, and I think

5484
02:26:44,575 --> 02:26:44,976
if we do that, then we

5485
02:26:44,976 --> 02:26:46,244
ve all

5486
02:26:46,244 --> 02:26:47,579
done our job as a, as a

5487
02:26:47,579 --> 02:26:47,712
planning commission. So it

5488
02:26:47,712 --> 02:26:49,314
s

5489
02:26:49,314 --> 02:26:52,914
been an honor to the staff.

5490
02:26:52,951 --> 02:26:54,190
Thank you very much. And, um,

5491
02:26:54,190 --> 02:26:55,530
probably we

5492
02:26:55,530 --> 02:26:57,453
ll never you never

5493
02:26:58,657 --> 02:27:02,257
know. All right. Uh, items from

5494
02:27:02,963 --> 02:27:04,531
staff, MISS Painter.

5495
02:27:04,531 --> 02:27:05,899
Thank you, MR. Chair. And

5496
02:27:05,899 --> 02:27:08,869
before we go into our items, I

5497
02:27:08,869 --> 02:27:11,205
do want to thank both you and,

5498
02:27:11,205 --> 02:27:12,639
uh, Ron for your service to the

5499
02:27:12,639 --> 02:27:12,806
community and to the city. It

5500
02:27:12,806 --> 02:27:13,975
s

5501
02:27:13,975 --> 02:27:15,576
a very important job that you

5502
02:27:15,576 --> 02:27:17,678
guys undertake. And we

5503
02:27:17,678 --> 02:27:19,481
understand how much it takes of

5504
02:27:19,481 --> 02:27:21,350
your time to spend it. Spend it

5505
02:27:21,350 --> 02:27:23,520
here with us on these lovely

5506
02:27:23,520 --> 02:27:24,987
evenings. Uh, so, moving on

5507
02:27:24,987 --> 02:27:28,587
from that, we did provide you

5508
02:27:28,958 --> 02:27:32,428
with your annual report for fy

5509
02:27:32,428 --> 02:27:34,300
2026. Um, I know that there are

5510
02:27:34,300 --> 02:27:35,264
probably fewer cases on here

5511
02:27:35,264 --> 02:27:37,101
that the charts show that you

5512
02:27:37,101 --> 02:27:38,836
had fewer applications than you

5513
02:27:38,836 --> 02:27:40,204
have in the past, but I think

5514
02:27:40,204 --> 02:27:41,505
you do need should celebrate

5515
02:27:41,505 --> 02:27:42,707
some of the big things you did,

5516
02:27:42,707 --> 02:27:44,842
including the adoption of the

5517
02:27:44,842 --> 02:27:46,277
Greater Downtown Plan, because

5518
02:27:46,277 --> 02:27:48,346
that was that was a big item

5519
02:27:48,346 --> 02:27:50,181
for for the city to to bring

5520
02:27:50,181 --> 02:27:51,750
forward some other things that

5521
02:27:51,750 --> 02:27:53,319
are happening. Uh, the Tree

5522
02:27:53,319 --> 02:27:55,688
Commission has established a

5523
02:27:55,688 --> 02:27:57,688
tree ordinance subcommittee

5524
02:27:57,723 --> 02:28:00,930
that will be working on

5525
02:28:00,930 --> 02:28:01,628
identifying amendments to the

5526
02:28:01,628 --> 02:28:01,828
proposed amendments to the

5527
02:28:01,828 --> 02:28:03,828
city

5528
02:28:03,930 --> 02:28:05,498
s tree ordinance. So they

5529
02:28:05,498 --> 02:28:07,000
will be inviting subject matter

5530
02:28:07,000 --> 02:28:08,769
experts as well as various

5531
02:28:08,769 --> 02:28:10,538
stakeholders, including the

5532
02:28:10,538 --> 02:28:11,739
Alliance for Cape Fear Trees,

5533
02:28:11,739 --> 02:28:13,708
the development community, to

5534
02:28:13,708 --> 02:28:15,310
participate in that process.

5535
02:28:15,310 --> 02:28:17,145
Uh, we are staffing that

5536
02:28:17,145 --> 02:28:19,314
committee and we will have also

5537
02:28:19,314 --> 02:28:20,615
recommended that before they

5538
02:28:20,615 --> 02:28:22,517
get to the point where they are

5539
02:28:22,517 --> 02:28:23,652
finalizing their proposal, we

5540
02:28:23,652 --> 02:28:25,200
would actually like to do a

5541
02:28:25,200 --> 02:28:26,421
meeting with this with with the

5542
02:28:26,421 --> 02:28:28,191
commission, or if you want to

5543
02:28:28,191 --> 02:28:29,592
appoint a subcommittee to look

5544
02:28:29,592 --> 02:28:31,294
at this so that so that we have

5545
02:28:31,294 --> 02:28:32,696
the two groups working together

5546
02:28:32,696 --> 02:28:35,132
before we bring you a formal

5547
02:28:35,132 --> 02:28:37,634
proposal at a public hearing,

5548
02:28:37,634 --> 02:28:39,670
uh, we also, since the chair

5549
02:28:39,670 --> 02:28:41,138
mentioned it, uh, the Cape Fear

5550
02:28:41,138 --> 02:28:43,138
Memorial Bridge Environmental

5551
02:28:43,307 --> 02:28:45,577
assessment was published and is

5552
02:28:45,577 --> 02:28:47,546
open for public comment through

5553
02:28:47,546 --> 02:28:49,214
OCTOBER 15th. There are two

5554
02:28:49,214 --> 02:28:51,550
public hearings coming up on

5555
02:28:51,550 --> 02:28:53,485
SEPTEMBER 14th and 15th, and

5556
02:28:53,485 --> 02:28:55,354
you can find more information

5557
02:28:55,354 --> 02:28:55,621
about the project on the city

5558
02:28:55,621 --> 02:28:56,956
s

5559
02:28:56,956 --> 02:28:58,324
website. There is actually if

5560
02:28:58,324 --> 02:29:00,259
you go to Wilmington, nc, dot

5561
02:29:00,259 --> 02:29:01,794
gov. There is a large banner

5562
02:29:01,794 --> 02:29:03,970
that will take you to a web

5563
02:29:03,970 --> 02:29:04,164
page that was created to help

5564
02:29:04,164 --> 02:29:06,564
the public understand the

5565
02:29:07,100 --> 02:29:08,302
project, and then, uh, as

5566
02:29:08,302 --> 02:29:10,302
Commissioner Pollock alluded

5567
02:29:10,905 --> 02:29:12,707
to, we do have a new community

5568
02:29:12,707 --> 02:29:14,410
planning and design manager who

5569
02:29:14,410 --> 02:29:16,477
will be joining us, uh,

5570
02:29:16,477 --> 02:29:17,579
officially on Tuesday. So you

5571
02:29:17,579 --> 02:29:20,115
will be seeing them at your

5572
02:29:20,115 --> 02:29:22,785
next meeting. And, uh, we are

5573
02:29:22,785 --> 02:29:25,154
very excited to have them. So

5574
02:29:25,154 --> 02:29:25,521
with that.

5575
02:29:25,521 --> 02:29:27,521
Okay.

5576
02:29:28,691 --> 02:29:28,992
Can I just add if anybody, um,

5577
02:29:28,992 --> 02:29:29,993
to Linda

5578
02:29:29,993 --> 02:29:32,950
s point about the Cape

5579
02:29:32,950 --> 02:29:32,929
Fear Bridge, take a look at the

5580
02:29:32,929 --> 02:29:33,430
replay of last night

5581
02:29:33,430 --> 02:29:34,531
s council

5582
02:29:34,531 --> 02:29:36,990
meeting, because I talked to

5583
02:29:36,990 --> 02:29:37,868
Linda before. I thought she did

5584
02:29:37,868 --> 02:29:38,603
an excellent job of here

5585
02:29:38,603 --> 02:29:40,603
s

5586
02:29:40,738 --> 02:29:40,939
really what option a is, and

5587
02:29:40,939 --> 02:29:42,939
here

5588
02:29:42,941 --> 02:29:46,770
s really what option b is.

5589
02:29:46,770 --> 02:29:48,346
And it was a very, you know,

5590
02:29:48,346 --> 02:29:49,614
nonpartisan, very objective.

5591
02:29:49,614 --> 02:29:50,480
This is what it is. This is

5592
02:29:50,480 --> 02:29:51,216
what it isn

5593
02:29:51,216 --> 02:29:52,551
t. So I would you

5594
02:29:52,551 --> 02:29:54,319
know, I would encourage you if

5595
02:29:54,319 --> 02:29:55,253
you get a chance. And even

5596
02:29:55,253 --> 02:29:55,488
though I know Ron, you just

5597
02:29:55,488 --> 02:29:56,220
said it

5598
02:29:56,220 --> 02:29:56,156
s not things you

5599
02:29:56,156 --> 02:29:57,457
re

5600
02:29:57,457 --> 02:29:58,625
going to be watching on tv,

5601
02:29:58,625 --> 02:29:59,859
take a look at that. Because it

5602
02:29:59,859 --> 02:30:01,461
was really nice. Job done.

5603
02:30:01,461 --> 02:30:02,529
And and honored who watched

5604
02:30:02,529 --> 02:30:02,763
this. Most of them. What

5605
02:30:02,763 --> 02:30:03,463
s

5606
02:30:03,463 --> 02:30:04,398
that? I said I

5607
02:30:04,398 --> 02:30:04,831
m the nerd who

5608
02:30:04,831 --> 02:30:04,998
watches me.

5609
02:30:04,998 --> 02:30:06,433
You

5610
02:30:06,433 --> 02:30:08,100
re right with me. But yeah.

5611
02:30:08,100 --> 02:30:10,905
So yeah, take a look at it. It

5612
02:30:10,905 --> 02:30:12,706
was a nice job, Linda.

5613
02:30:12,706 --> 02:30:15,577
Very good. Anything else from

5614
02:30:15,577 --> 02:30:16,311
staff? Do you have a motion to

5615
02:30:16,311 --> 02:30:17,713
adjourn?

5616
02:30:17,713 --> 02:30:18,413
So moved.

5617
02:30:18,413 --> 02:30:19,648
Second.

5618
02:30:19,648 --> 02:30:20,215
All in favor?

5619
02:30:20,215 --> 02:30:22,215
Aye, aye.

5620
02:30:27,230 --> 02:30:29,423
Meeting adjourned. Thank you.