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The meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board of the City of Wooder Park for May 5, 2026 will come to order.

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Let me begin by stating that the purpose of the Planning and Zoning Board is to review and make a recommendation on conditional uses, subdivisions, comprehensive plan amendments, land development code amendments,

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and other ordinances affecting the development of property and to make final decisions on applications for a lake for a home approval.

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Any decision regarding lake for homes under city code section 58-87 is under the purview of the sport and the boards vote is a final decision that will not be heard by the city commission.

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The city commission will consider the board's recommendations may tonight on other public hearing items on Wednesday May 27,

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2026 at 330 p.m., or assume their actors may be heard, and the city commission will make

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the final decision on such matters. You're encouraged to keep a prize to the status of such

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matters, going before the city commission by reviewing the city's website, an upcoming city

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commission meeting agenda. The meeting will proceed as follows. The chair or staff will announce

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each public hearing item as it appears on the agenda, which is available outside the front door.

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Staff will begin by making a presentation on each item and will provide the staff's

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recommendation. Next we will hear from the applicant. After that the floor will be open to the public for anyone who wishes to speak in support of or an opposition to the request.

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After public comment, the applicant will be given an opportunity to respond to the public comments. Please approach the podium and state your name and address for the record.

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With the exception of ordinances proposing comprehensive plan amendments and land development code amendments, the public hearing matters coming before the board are mostly quasi judicial and nature.

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For quasi-judicial matters, the Board considers the testimony and evidence in the record at the hearing and determines whether the applicable criteria for approval have been met.

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The testimony that you give to the Board should be fully truthful in the same manner as if you were giving sworn testimony in a court of law.

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In the interest of time, we ask that each person appearing before the Board limit their comments to one appearance of three minutes.

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We have a large group tonight and I expect they're going to be a number of people who wish to speak.

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I want to give everybody the opportunity to say their peace,

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but I also want to be respectful of everyone's time including city staff,

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my fellow board members, the applicant, and all the members of the public.

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So I'm going to limit you to three minutes tonight.

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I reserve the right to let somebody go over,

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but we're going to be judicious with our time today.

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Okay.

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Large groups are asked to name a spokesperson. We asked that your testimony be relevant to the public hearing matter to which you are speaking and avoid repeating arguments and testimony made by yourself or others. Order into quorum will be preserved at all times. Please address all your comments to the board and not to the audience. After all public input, the public comment period will be closed. The board members will then discuss and we will vote on a recommendation to the city commission with any conditions that may be appropriate.

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Please turn off for silence all mobile devices during these public hearings.

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The first item of the business is the approval of the April 7th, 2026 meeting minutes.

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Does everyone have chance to review the minutes?

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If so, is there a motion?

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Make a motion to approve.

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Second.

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Of a motion in a second?

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Or are there any public comments on the agenda prior to a vote?

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Chairman, we have anyone registered?

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I have a motion in a second.

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Can I have a roll call vote, please?

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Mr. Seagull.

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Hi.

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Yes. Mr. Steinberg. Mr. Dick.

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Yes. Vice Chair Boenstein.

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Chairman Johnson.

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All right.

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The next item of business is public comments for items not on the agenda tonight.

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We did not have anyone to register to unless someone would like to speak.

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Thank you. We'll move forward with the first item on the agenda.

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Good evening board. First item on your agenda is a request of the development services.

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For condition use approval to develop for one story buildings,

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to only just under 30,000 square feet at 860 West Fairbanks Avenue,

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including approval for alcohol sales within 300 feet of residential properties.

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In conjunction with the Vestids C3 zoning and a community benefit agreement.

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So as you recall, the board tables this item at your meeting last month

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and gave the applicant two topics to address.

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Number one, to revise our architectural design, to incorporate additional building articulation,

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and to prepare a streetscape plan for Holt, which could include either a striping plan

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demonstrating dedicated on street parking or enhancement, such as a wide- and sidewalk

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and improved pedestrian buffer.

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So here's the updated site plan.

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You can see they also incorporated one of the conditions that we had on your table

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item to make the pond a more natural shape so that they have updated the plan to reflect

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that condition and then also decided to move forward with parallel parking along hold

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Avenue. It's a little bit hard to see in this plan so I blew it up and two sections here

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the western section of hold on the top of the screen and the eastern section on the bottom of

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screen. So their proposal is for two-way drive aisle and nine by 18. I'm sorry, nine by

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22 parking spaces as well as a nine-foot sidewalk on the back of the curb and an eight-foot

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landscape buffer. And they were able to accommodate 13 parallel parking spaces. So they satisfied

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that plan with kind of providing both options and enhanced pedestrians experience there with the

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larger sidewalk as well as the buffer and then the 13 parking spaces.

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This is up to landscape plan that shows the reshape of the pond area.

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They also incorporated some sabers trees within the pond area.

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Again, this shows the landscape buffer on the private property side outside of the sidewalk for that eight foot landscape buffer.

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And then they also revise the articulation of the larger buildings at the end, the one

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at the corner of Dending of Fairbanks and the one at the corner of Cape End in Fairbanks.

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So the old is on top, you see the top area is flat on the new version, they've bumped

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out at least two feet on those two detail pieces, so it creates more of articulation along

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front longer buildings. And in terms of the smaller buildings in between, they do have a 10-foot

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articulation in between the two buildings. So it's not flat all across the four separate buildings.

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So it does jut out 10 feet towards Fairbanks Avenue. And then again with the buildings of the

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smaller versions in the middle, being only 61.5 feet wide, they decided to keep it as one fly elevation

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because the OEO code requires it to be set back every 36 feet, which creates for an awkward

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tenant space there for that restaurant space, so it's just the one art...

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Education piece that they don't have in the smaller buildings. But again, as I mentioned, they provide the ten foot articulation between the first building along the western edge as you move towards the east. It has a additional articulation, so it's not flat as you're looking down.

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And then here's another view of those two buildings in the middle, just wanted to point out within themselves.

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They do have articulation, it's just not at that 36 point foot mark in the middle.

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It's built into recess of the storefronts, the corners on the top, the recess of the windows, twice, one to the front face of the windows and then again where the insets of the windows are.

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So there's lots of articulation built in within the building, just not at that 36 point mark right in the middle,

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which would create for kind of an awkward view of the building due to the architecture they're proposing.

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Then just kind of recapping the comparison of what we have here. I went over a lot of this in our last meeting,

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but just to reiterate, we started with the OEO standards, which is what their zoning district is,

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but they requested a vesting agreement with the City Commission to go to the C3 standards.

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So we started with the ability to get 100% for a ratio invested to the lower C3 standards

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of 43% for a ratio, but they're proposing a 19.4% for a ratio.

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So they're 80 to 25% under the max for a ratio that could be built when we started.

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In terms of height, oil, that was four, C3, that was three, they're proposing one, so the

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three is two stories under what they could do.

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In terms of setbacks, the front setbacks of oil were much higher than C3.

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So oil requires a 35 foot front setback, C3 is a 10 foot setback.

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They're providing 35, 243 depending on which building you're looking at.

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So, again, 25 to 13.5 over in terms of parking,

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OEO and C3 required the same amount of parking at 175 parking spaces

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that are proposing 199 parking spaces at the first

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start of construction of this project.

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They'll be over parked by 49 parking spaces,

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but if they come back for the second conditional use

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for that 6,000 square foot office building,

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then there'll be 24 spaces over.

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So, either scenario, whether without the office building,

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they're over parked, and then that also doesn't include the 13

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on street parking spaces that they're going to construct as part of this.

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Just kind of summarize, because FAR is kind of hard to understand.

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It percentages with the C3 investing.

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You see there at the bottom, that means they're leaving 51,900

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to 6-square feet off the table with this proposed development.

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So with that, staff recommendations for approval with the four conditions that we had

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from the last meeting, number one, the community benefit, be fully executed prior to the certificate

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of occupancy, number two, that the oak trees identified in this community benefit agreement

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at the two intersections are preserved until such time that the future transportation

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and prevents on fair banks, can't commence.

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Number three, the pond be refined to incorporate

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a more natural edge shape.

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You can see they've already done that,

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but just continuing that on as a condition

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to make sure it doesn't get lost, as we move forward.

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And number four, that the applicant, again,

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enhanced the streetscape along Colt Avenue,

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which they provided and they revised some middle package.

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So with that, I will take any questions.

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The board has for staff.

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Is this a member?

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Allison, that our work session represented it's from the transportation group came in because

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we had a discussion on that intersection with whole and dining and they were going to do something.

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And now my question is what is it that they're going to do and how if any would that affect this project?

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So, you know, the issue with the traffic is happening now.

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So, what the transportation division is going to do is perform our own traffic study.

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So, take a look at what the applicant has provided as part of their updated traffic data.

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Once the property was constructed, they have all that trip generation and traffic study that they provided.

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So, we'll incorporate that into a holistic study that takes a look at a larger area other than just the single property.

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and then determine what steps need to be done from the city side to improve the streets

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if any changes need to be made as a result of that study.

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So in other words, theoretically, if we were to approve the plan as presented,

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that still would not prevent it from being amended further on if traffic the vision comes back.

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It would be on the city side.

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on the right, but they would have to do that they would look at it and say, I think we need

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to do something with this based on this or not. I mean, I'm just saying is it would be

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based on whatever the traffic division comes back with.

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Right, and we have control of the city rights of the way, so it wouldn't be impacting the city

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rights of it, not the private property.

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Right, so if the city recommends that something some adjustments be made with that intersection,

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they would do it.

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the city. Yeah, and DOT because the DOT route. Because there's a timing issue with regards

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my understanding also, so people understand is that DOT controls fair banks. That's not the city.

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So there's a question is to when that left turn Lane's going to be installed, there's going to be a

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project to resurface or something, so where the city's going to try and get that in there.

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We're made to do it this morning. It's made to make that reality sooner and if that happens, then the

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traffic signals will be adjusted to compensate for that.

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Yes, exactly.

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Thank you.

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Questions for city staff?

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Mr. Worsey.

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Under the condition two, the outtrees at the Fairbanks Denning and Fairbanks

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keep an intersection.

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So will they just get torn down at the point that future transportation improvements

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commence?

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Unfortunately, because they're in the way of the right of way that's needed for the

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Certainly.

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Will there be any compensation for those trees?

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Yes.

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And that would be by who the city or the developer.

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It would be within the right away.

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So would be the city's responsibility.

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Okay.

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And that's on the city's agenda.

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It knows it will have to happen.

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You have the questions for staff.

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Thank you.

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With the applicant.

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Care to make a presentation.

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Good evening.

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Bob Zigg and first.

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development services 12.01 East Robinson Street Orlando Florida 3.2804 was up here a couple

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weeks ago giving him a reason.

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Presentation, my job got easier tonight. We've done everything that's asked of us. We've gone through and created. I think some of the residents concerns that may be here again tonight and we come back up and certainly respond to any concerns that they might have, but to reiterate some of those safety of pedestrians was a common theme of what we talked about when we were here last time.

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And as Allison showed you, I've got a PowerPoint presentation here that's, you know, got some similar things in that what Allison showed, but I'm going to go ahead and get to the site plan here,

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eventually.

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So you can see the parallel parking in Allison had the little blow up. I think some important things to, you know, add to Allison's narrative on this is that when we talk about those overages in parking,

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we're not counting on these parallel parking spaces as part of that overage. So these are, in addition to the code required parking, I think a lot of the concerns that were raised here last time were, you know, more of larger events, maybe at the baseball field behind us and now there is overflow parking in the streets, not only that, but also wanting to create that separation from the driving public and the walking public and also give the walking public a wider sidewalk.

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So we've accomplished that by creating the separation with those parallel park cars and also

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with that wider sidewalk for pedestrian safety.

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So that's kind of what we've done along hold.

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And looking at the storm motor attention pond, it was just to make it a little bit more

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of an aesthetic feature, feel a little bit more natural.

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The landscaping plan, as you saw, there's enhanced landscaping around that wall there

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that intersection, as well as a enhanced slanscaping along,

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hold behind that wider sidewalk that I was just referencing as well.

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Allison did a very good job of explaining what was done on the buildings and what the thought process was

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of the architect as they went away from this last meeting and the feedback that we had received in that meeting

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and feel that we've met the intent of what everybody was looking for in that last discussion.

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So with that being said, I'm here to answer any questions now and reserve the right to come back up

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and respond to anything that might be brought up here this evening.

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Thank you.

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Questions for the applicant?

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Anyone?

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Thank you.

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We have members of the public who wish to speak on this application.

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Chair, I have three registered.

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There may be more in the audience.

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The first one is Ken Brown.

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Good evening.

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Members of the council.

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My name is Ken Brown, 1044 North Kentucky.

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I run a land entitlement investment fund here.

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And as such, I regularly evaluate projects.

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such as this, and so I'm well positioned to speak to its merits.

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I'd like to express my support for the redevelopment of the property 860 West Fairbanks.

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Winter Park thrives when development is intentional, and especially residential office

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and thoughtfully designed and retail they come together to create energy and community

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restaurants play a key role in that process as they bring people together.

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They increase walkability.

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They support the surrounding businesses and contribute meaningfully to the local economy.

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Beyond that, projects like this tend to have a ripple effect, I'm sure you guys know

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that.

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When you introduce high quality restaurant space into an area surrounded by residential

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office uses, you don't just fill the space but you create a destination.

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That drives foot traffic, supports nearby businesses, increases property values.

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and enhances overall experience of the area for both residents and visitors.

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As it stands today, if you guys are familiar with this property,

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I feel that the property does not reflect the standard,

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nor the potential of winter park.

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This proposal represents a clear improvement,

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one that aligns with the city's vision, and with the OA overlay guidelines

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for thoughtful development.

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I mean, in many cases, even below what the OA requires.

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So I think that was really well done in their park.

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I also want to acknowledge the stewardship behind the proposal, the Hall of Family, has a long-standing

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presence in the community, which reflects leadership, innovation, and a commitment to doing things

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the right way values that clearly continue today.

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And when you look at the project holistically, you will find a well-qualified developer, a project

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that improves and beautifies the area, a use that strengthens the local economy and a proposal

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that aligns with and even proves upon the OA of Framework.

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For my perspective as an industry professional and as someone I actually live a Jason to

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this property, so a couple hundred yards away.

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This is exactly the kind of thoughtful community line development that Winter Park has known

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for and I respectfully encourage approval.

244
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Thank you, members of the council.

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Thank you.

246
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,420
Next is Sonja McLean.

247
00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:11,180
Well, I'm Sonja McLean, 935, North Kentucky Avenue.

248
00:20:11,180 --> 00:20:14,160
First off, I just want to say Allison has been great.

249
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She's been kind of feeling all our project ideas and everything, and I just wanted to give her a shout out.

250
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:27,480
Again, the last time I was here, I'm, again, I'm in for the project.

251
00:20:28,060 --> 00:20:36,120
I appreciate the fact that it's not something that's opposing, you know, that it's not a multi-story structure,

252
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which is nice because I've been planning to do these meetings where, unfortunately, people will complain that all of a sudden there's no more sunlight.

253
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Now we have a shade garden versus a sun garden, so I really do appreciate that fact.

254
00:20:51,340 --> 00:20:59,320
I've also lived at this property for 36 years, and I remember when Holland Chevrolet was still there.

255
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And there was four lanes of traffic, I know we discussed this last time.

256
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And even when they were at their busiest, I never had a problem turning left out of my property from North Kentucky on to Denning.

257
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And then of course, the two lane happened.

258
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Which we couldn't understand because we knew that property was going to be redeveloped at some point and also that six points was going to be redeveloped.

259
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So it didn't make any sense to us.

260
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So now, you know, we have the issues with the traffic and all of you are quite familiar with, you know, what with this with the backups.

261
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:46,340
And since since that's happened, we've also had in a very short period of time, at least two cars trying to try to turn themselves into lawn ornaments or neighbors corner property.

262
00:21:48,820 --> 00:21:54,880
And as it is half the time, I have to go over to South Kentucky to make a left because

263
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well, the traffic backs up, so I'm now creating more traffic on their area.

264
00:22:01,980 --> 00:22:05,380
And my husband and I were the ones that came up with the right turn in, right turn out.

265
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And we kind of updated it and sent it into Allison.

266
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But we want to make sure that we can actually, you know, enter and exit our properties without having to, you know, check our blood pressure right afterwards.

267
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It's, again, it's, we've kind of had a re-adjust ever since it's too late and we can't go back. It's not there.

268
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:36,080
There's no time machine to go back and change that. But we're just want to make sure that it doesn't

269
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:43,420
create more imposing traffic into our area and work cut through traffic. I use cuts through traffic

270
00:22:43,420 --> 00:22:48,060
all the time, so I'm not going to be at hit the grid about it. I do it. I wish we had a lower

271
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traffic, you know, speed sign, because as you well know, when you put 15 people go 20,

272
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if you put

273
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But we just want, again, we're for the project, we just want the city to be thoughtful about our roads and to give our, you know, ideas and to give more consideration.

274
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I thank you so much. Next is Susie Stein.

275
00:23:26,460 --> 00:23:35,460
I'm Susie Stein, and I live at 1035 in North Kentucky. And I don't want to repeat what Sonia said, but my biggest issue is still the traffic.

276
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Like just coming here tonight, I was trying to go straight from North Kentucky to Holt.

277
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And I had to wait for two cycles of lights because I could not get through.

278
00:23:45,260 --> 00:23:50,000
And so, two things will one, I don't know what we're doing about this traffic, but two

279
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:55,240
is there any talk about making that light a little bit longer so that more traffic can get

280
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,240
through, because there's times of day that three cars get through.

281
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,520
I think there was a discussion not to get into a back and forth with the community, but there

282
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,640
discussion with Mr. Steinberg and Allison, where we talk about something that was discussed

283
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:12,160
at our work session recently, where we had somebody from City Traffic Department come and

284
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:18,340
speak, and once the turn lanes are put in, this can't happen until that happens, but once

285
00:24:18,340 --> 00:24:24,020
the turn lanes are put in, and you have that change in the intersection, the lights will

286
00:24:24,020 --> 00:24:29,260
be retined. We can't guarantee what that's going to mean, but that will happen when

287
00:24:29,260 --> 00:24:30,160
the turn lanes are put in.

288
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,560
I wasn't sure what specifically you guys had discussed.

289
00:24:32,860 --> 00:24:34,620
And the second thing is is there any way

290
00:24:34,620 --> 00:24:37,180
to have resident only parking on our street

291
00:24:37,180 --> 00:24:38,680
or anything like that?

292
00:24:38,780 --> 00:24:40,900
So our street doesn't become a parking lot.

293
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,700
It's just such a narrow street to begin with.

294
00:24:45,260 --> 00:24:46,580
I don't know the answer to that question.

295
00:24:49,350 --> 00:24:51,090
If it's a public street, or not,

296
00:24:51,150 --> 00:24:53,790
able to restrict it based on residents.

297
00:24:54,250 --> 00:24:56,030
I mean, there's not a framework for that.

298
00:24:57,530 --> 00:24:59,370
That's, that's, that's my expectation

299
00:24:59,370 --> 00:25:00,730
for what the answer is, but yeah.

300
00:25:00,730 --> 00:25:01,550
Okay.

301
00:25:02,030 --> 00:25:02,370
That's it.

302
00:25:02,410 --> 00:25:02,830
Thank you.

303
00:25:02,890 --> 00:25:03,490
Thank you.

304
00:25:03,870 --> 00:25:05,510
Our last speaker is Steve Sikri.

305
00:25:15,530 --> 00:25:16,910
My name is Steve Sikri.

306
00:25:17,030 --> 00:25:17,890
I live at 1041.

307
00:25:18,090 --> 00:25:19,030
South Kentucky Avenue.

308
00:25:19,270 --> 00:25:23,210
And there is actually street parking over New Orleans where it's required to have a sticker.

309
00:25:23,470 --> 00:25:24,310
So there is some president.

310
00:25:25,010 --> 00:25:31,170
My question is that I'm visiting the cut through traffic being substantial.

311
00:25:32,030 --> 00:25:38,970
And do we have any obligation to study it ahead of time and come up with some base numbers?

312
00:25:40,790 --> 00:25:47,470
and then assuming so what would be that process and then what would be the threshold that we

313
00:25:47,470 --> 00:25:55,070
say okay we have to make some changes to that cut-through area yeah I'm happy to allow

314
00:25:55,070 --> 00:25:59,810
city staff to answer these questions but frankly this is more related to just sort of

315
00:25:59,810 --> 00:26:04,590
general traffic and sermons about a particular neighborhood in the city and less than having

316
00:26:04,590 --> 00:26:05,690
to do with the application.

317
00:26:07,230 --> 00:26:09,870
But Allison, Nicholas, can you answer that question?

318
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,960
I can't tell you what the threshold is.

319
00:26:13,980 --> 00:26:15,300
Are they need to be studied?

320
00:26:16,460 --> 00:26:16,880
I mean, yeah.

321
00:26:16,980 --> 00:26:20,160
And that's my observation is I haven't met anyone

322
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,200
in the neighborhood or otherwise that's opposing the development.

323
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,580
The only concerns I hear are the cut-through traffic.

324
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:28,200
And I've lived there long enough.

325
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,400
It's going to back up from Dending towards 1792.

326
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,320
And people are going to turn right on the ward.

327
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,320
Go down North Kentucky and try to get across.

328
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:40,040
when they're leaving, that light's going to back up and people are going to turn left and want

329
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:45,920
to go through that neighborhood back to ward and then head because that's, you can't otherwise

330
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:55,420
get west so it's going to be a problem and it's going to be relatively high volume of certain

331
00:26:55,420 --> 00:27:00,220
busy times of night. So I guess I'm not opposed at all to this. I'm just curious if we can

332
00:27:01,180 --> 00:27:05,780
set some thresholds and then maybe have some kind of a plan in the event that it does exceed

333
00:27:05,780 --> 00:27:08,540
those thresholds.

334
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:14,120
So again, if this is the right form of my apologize, but I am curious, I guess I am curious,

335
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:21,300
does the city have any obligation to monitor that and to take action with regard to this?

336
00:27:21,740 --> 00:27:28,300
With regard to this particular project, I don't think that this particular project envisions

337
00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:34,460
any sort of traffic study being done to make sure that it falls within whatever...

338
00:27:34,460 --> 00:27:45,220
Yeah, and you know, maybe a wound, but that's what that's my question is couldn't we establish and I've been talking to the transportation people about doing that, but I haven't got any really like answers.

339
00:27:45,700 --> 00:27:49,160
I know they're planning on doing something with the retiming of the lights.

340
00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:49,740
Absolutely.

341
00:27:50,340 --> 00:27:52,240
Yeah, that I do understand.

342
00:27:53,300 --> 00:28:02,120
That might solve some of it, but I have a feeling that the cut through traffic, I have a feeling that it's going to be dramatically more than it currently is, which is substantial right now.

343
00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:05,820
So, I guess so, it sounds like I need to speak to them, see.

344
00:28:07,220 --> 00:28:12,260
Well, I think if the, it just seems to me that if the applicant were proposing to build

345
00:28:12,260 --> 00:28:18,180
something that was 50,000 square feet larger, there would probably be more traffic than

346
00:28:18,180 --> 00:28:21,440
what is, you know, going to happen with what's being proposed for any of that.

347
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:22,120
Thank you.

348
00:28:22,220 --> 00:28:22,740
Thank you, sir.

349
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:25,520
Anyone else?

350
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:27,140
No, chairman.

351
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:28,520
We don't have anyone else scheduled?

352
00:28:30,140 --> 00:28:34,340
Would the applicant care to make any rebuttal?

353
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,300
Hello, Bob Zigg and Puss again.

354
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:47,340
The only thing I would add, we have talked about it before, but the landowner and developer

355
00:28:47,340 --> 00:28:53,980
in this particular case is making a dedication of right away both on the north side of Fairbanks

356
00:28:53,980 --> 00:28:59,980
and the south side of Fairbanks to help with the city's desire to put in that westbound

357
00:28:59,980 --> 00:29:04,000
left-turn lane from Westbound Fair banks on to Southbound Denning.

358
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:09,220
So we are contributing and trying to help the greatest extent possible here with the

359
00:29:09,220 --> 00:29:13,060
development plan that we're putting forward, both with the development that we previously

360
00:29:13,060 --> 00:29:13,620
approved.

361
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:19,380
We do have near approval on the north side for the start construction there as well as the

362
00:29:19,380 --> 00:29:21,260
dedication right away on this side as well.

363
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,600
So, it's certainly willing to participate and talk where we deal with city staff all the time

364
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,800
their transportation department as they move forward in their study in any way that we might

365
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,960
be able to help them out in that study as well.

366
00:29:33,380 --> 00:29:35,380
And then just here to answer any questions you might have.

367
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,180
Any questions for the applicant?

368
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:39,360
Thanks sir.

369
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:41,840
All right, we'll go into closed session.

370
00:29:42,700 --> 00:29:44,180
Let me start down at this in Charles.

371
00:29:45,340 --> 00:29:53,280
Well my main concern and I had expressed it was the effect of the project on the traffic, on

372
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:59,840
setting and that intersection with whole. And to the extent that the city is now.

373
00:30:00,430 --> 00:30:23,330
The Transportation Department is making a study and a determination as to whether or not anything has to be done, as well as trying to accelerate with the state, you know, the turn lane on Fairbanks. I think that, you know, as far as the city is concerned, they've alleviated that issue. I mean, we'll see, but I mean, they're addressing that issue as much as possible.

374
00:30:23,330 --> 00:30:27,250
And I would otherwise before the project, you know,

375
00:30:27,390 --> 00:30:32,930
now the city is on, it's on their time table to do something with that.

376
00:30:33,850 --> 00:30:37,350
So I would before the project as submitted.

377
00:30:38,350 --> 00:30:38,910
Mr. Dick?

378
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:45,750
Yeah, I think I initially shared that I was on the Orange Avenue

379
00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:47,390
overlay steering committee.

380
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:51,550
And under those guidelines, I was always a little apprehensive

381
00:30:51,550 --> 00:30:54,190
of what this application was going to look like.

382
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:56,770
But I was very pleasantly surprised.

383
00:30:57,690 --> 00:31:01,170
It's pretty much understated from what

384
00:31:01,170 --> 00:31:02,130
could have been there.

385
00:31:02,990 --> 00:31:10,270
I do appreciate the later changes to the building,

386
00:31:10,450 --> 00:31:11,510
especially the setbacks.

387
00:31:11,630 --> 00:31:15,410
I think they're a lot more effective than the art

388
00:31:15,410 --> 00:31:17,170
speculation on the one longer building.

389
00:31:17,370 --> 00:31:19,430
So I was pleased with that.

390
00:31:21,190 --> 00:31:27,630
So, I'm very pleased with him, and for this occasion.

391
00:31:30,050 --> 00:31:34,350
Yeah, I really appreciate all the changes that were made to the site plan.

392
00:31:35,050 --> 00:31:41,030
I think there are substantial improvements to what was before.

393
00:31:41,730 --> 00:31:50,690
And again, like others have mentioned, this is underdeveloped for what could be developed here.

394
00:31:50,690 --> 00:32:16,770
So, I appreciate the quality of the site plan, the materials, articulation of detail and I think it'll be a great improvement to this intersection and hopefully in time we can address the traffic concerns that the residents have expressed and there can be some resolution to that issue.

395
00:32:19,010 --> 00:32:20,090
Mr. Seigle?

396
00:32:21,170 --> 00:32:23,030
Just a popular area.

397
00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:33,790
Traffic is always going to be a problem, but this is a very good result, and they've made some great changes so happy to vote for it.

398
00:32:34,030 --> 00:32:34,370
Mr. Seigle?

399
00:32:34,990 --> 00:32:46,750
Yeah, I think this is a great example of a sort of synergistic opportunity where a development comes in and not only improves an area, but potentially leads to

400
00:32:46,750 --> 00:32:49,650
to the solution to some existing problems.

401
00:32:51,210 --> 00:32:55,990
The one thing I would recommend is as traffic studies are done

402
00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:59,030
and information comes out that the public,

403
00:32:59,030 --> 00:33:00,770
I don't know if there's a way for the public to be notified

404
00:33:00,770 --> 00:33:03,290
or the neighborhoods affected to be notified,

405
00:33:04,030 --> 00:33:05,590
so that there is some transparency.

406
00:33:07,290 --> 00:33:11,970
And the city can inform people about plans for the area.

407
00:33:12,330 --> 00:33:14,290
I just think it'd be a really good idea to do that

408
00:33:14,290 --> 00:33:16,090
as it takes place.

409
00:33:16,930 --> 00:33:18,330
Otherwise, I think it's a great project.

410
00:33:20,350 --> 00:33:22,770
Yeah, I shared Mr. Dick's apprehension.

411
00:33:22,890 --> 00:33:24,710
If you'd asked me two and a half years ago,

412
00:33:24,830 --> 00:33:26,130
what was going to come on this property?

413
00:33:26,150 --> 00:33:28,810
I shared his apprehension about what it would look like.

414
00:33:30,170 --> 00:33:33,470
I was heartened when the applicant came in with its plans

415
00:33:33,470 --> 00:33:36,170
for the north side of Fairbanks.

416
00:33:37,490 --> 00:33:40,310
And I think flowed through to this proposal.

417
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:48,230
It is underbuilt over-part, and I've long said that, you know, development isn't a dirty word.

418
00:33:48,530 --> 00:33:55,290
If it's attractive in scale and fits within the charm of the city of Winner Park, it should be encouraged.

419
00:33:56,730 --> 00:34:04,670
And I, like many other members of the board, appreciate the fact that the applicants come in with something that I believe is attractive in scale

420
00:34:04,670 --> 00:34:10,690
far under what they could have proposed to put on this property and for those reasons I would

421
00:34:10,690 --> 00:34:11,350
support it.

422
00:34:11,350 --> 00:34:17,730
I would note that everybody on the board shares the concerns of the local residents on North

423
00:34:17,730 --> 00:34:24,210
and South Kentucky about the traffic in that area, specifically how you get westbound

424
00:34:24,210 --> 00:34:29,750
onto Fairbanks when you're coming from Denning from the South.

425
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:36,650
It's a nightmare intersection, hopefully it will be improved with the addition of those turn

426
00:34:36,650 --> 00:34:38,290
lanes and the retiming of the lights.

427
00:34:38,890 --> 00:34:43,410
But as I said at the last meeting, that's not really the applicant's issue, it's really

428
00:34:43,410 --> 00:34:45,410
more the city's issue and DOT's issue.

429
00:34:46,190 --> 00:34:50,890
So I appreciate the applicant making the changes that the board requested and being patient

430
00:34:50,890 --> 00:34:51,870
with us.

431
00:34:52,590 --> 00:34:54,850
And so at that point I will entertain a motion.

432
00:34:55,990 --> 00:34:57,830
I would move to approve as submitted.

433
00:34:59,030 --> 00:35:01,490
I have a motion of a second, can I have a roll call vote, please?

434
00:35:01,550 --> 00:35:04,550
Can I get a clarification if that includes the staff?

435
00:35:04,890 --> 00:35:08,130
Can I get a clarification if that motion includes the staff conditions?

436
00:35:10,930 --> 00:35:11,890
Well, yes.

437
00:35:13,610 --> 00:35:14,310
With the conditions.

438
00:35:14,570 --> 00:35:16,430
I said as proposed.

439
00:35:16,830 --> 00:35:23,050
Well, I said as submitted, but I stand corrected, so with all the papers in the agenda.

440
00:35:23,110 --> 00:35:25,490
As it appears in the agenda, thank you.

441
00:35:26,830 --> 00:35:28,390
I'll be still second in that.

442
00:35:28,590 --> 00:35:28,790
Miss Cable?

443
00:35:29,150 --> 00:35:29,710
Yes, I'm here.

444
00:35:30,010 --> 00:35:30,190
You're school.

445
00:35:30,290 --> 00:35:31,230
Motion to the second.

446
00:35:31,730 --> 00:35:32,710
Can I have a roll call, though, please?

447
00:35:33,130 --> 00:35:33,470
Yes.

448
00:35:33,710 --> 00:35:34,210
Mr. Dick?

449
00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:35,090
Yes.

450
00:35:35,470 --> 00:35:36,150
Miss Ackesian?

451
00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:37,030
Yes.

452
00:35:37,390 --> 00:35:38,250
Mr. Steinberg?

453
00:35:38,610 --> 00:35:38,950
Yes.

454
00:35:39,090 --> 00:35:39,910
Mr. Seagull?

455
00:35:40,290 --> 00:35:40,590
Yes.

456
00:35:40,750 --> 00:35:41,710
Bester Borenstein?

457
00:35:42,030 --> 00:35:42,190
Yes.

458
00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:42,990
Chairman Johnson.

459
00:35:43,370 --> 00:35:43,510
Hi.

460
00:35:54,940 --> 00:35:55,540
Good evening, boy.

461
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:11,520
We're going to the right direction.

462
00:36:12,100 --> 00:36:12,220
Okay.

463
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:25,760
Here we go.

464
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:27,300
All right, my name is Karina.

465
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:27,960
Plan R1.

466
00:36:28,260 --> 00:36:30,740
I will be presenting your, like, fun item for the night.

467
00:36:30,740 --> 00:36:39,160
This is a request of Verge Properties for approval to construct additions to the existing single family home, totalling at 652 square feet.

468
00:36:39,380 --> 00:36:46,440
Located on Lake Berry at 673, a ball moral road zone, R1, Triple A.

469
00:36:47,540 --> 00:36:52,840
Here is the Location Map to show where it is on Lake Berry.

470
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,820
And here is the aerial map.

471
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,280
The applicant's property is highlighted in purple.

472
00:37:00,700 --> 00:37:03,420
We did get neighbor letters in approval.

473
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,160
And from the north and the south highlighted here in green.

474
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,160
Here is the survey.

475
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,880
And here is the proposed site plan.

476
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,540
So this is our one triple A.

477
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,000
So they get a maximum of 35%.

478
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,840
They're meeting that by 19%.

479
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:29,820
They are impervious. They're meeting it at 39%. They are meeting the front step back if you follow the green highlighted line.

480
00:37:30,020 --> 00:37:41,200
They're existing setback is 32.1, and the addition is also meeting that setback. They are asking for a variance for the side setback and the rear setback.

481
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:55,480
The existing side setback is 10 feet, but because of the pinch of the property line and with the addition set, the new setback is now at 9 feet, 7 inches, so 5 by bench difference.

482
00:38:00,020 --> 00:38:10,420
So the rear sub back, they are proposing 90 feet because the addition is moving closer to the

483
00:38:10,420 --> 00:38:10,540
lake.

484
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,880
This applicant also needs to meet the four Lakefront criteria.

485
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:15,920
So first is tree preservation.

486
00:38:16,420 --> 00:38:19,980
They are not removing any of the trees on site, so they meet that requirement.

487
00:38:21,060 --> 00:38:23,900
Actually, there are no trees, I think, on this site.

488
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:26,400
Second is view of the lake.

489
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:36,120
So, where the lowest point of the grade on the lot is 77.98, and they're proposing the new deck at

490
00:38:37,060 --> 00:38:43,200
862, so it's actually under that three-foot maximum, so they need that requirement.

491
00:38:44,140 --> 00:38:45,760
Third is storm water retention.

492
00:38:46,180 --> 00:38:53,700
They are adding an additional soil right here at the southwestern portion of the property, and

493
00:38:53,700 --> 00:39:00,680
They also have an existing swell here at the Lakefront along that rear.

494
00:39:02,180 --> 00:39:04,620
And lastly is the view of the neighbors.

495
00:39:06,900 --> 00:39:09,780
So my fun little view plan here.

496
00:39:10,940 --> 00:39:18,240
So the applicant is the house with the pool.

497
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,240
The neighbor to the north actually came here for approval last year.

498
00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:31,260
They're rear setbacks on 92 and the south neighbor is that house no longer exists

499
00:39:31,260 --> 00:39:38,320
It's now a vacant lot, but we did take the rear setback of the what you see here in the aerial and that's around 110

500
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,320
So that's an average of 101

501
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,600
feet setback and again the proposals 90

502
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:49,640
Um, however,

503
00:39:52,410 --> 00:39:57,770
what did I say? Um, so similar to recent Lake Front approvals along the portion

504
00:39:57,770 --> 00:40:03,190
of the Lake of Lake Barry, the curvature of the Lake creates the southwestern facing view,

505
00:40:03,210 --> 00:40:09,870
which I try to create with these view of the north and south neighbors. Um, and therefore,

506
00:40:10,010 --> 00:40:15,990
even with the prior home, if it still existed there, what and even, um, affect the traditional

507
00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:24,570
view of the lake and it also puts the proposal structure in line with the existing properties

508
00:40:24,570 --> 00:40:25,790
on Lakebury.

509
00:40:28,110 --> 00:40:30,710
Here are some elevations and

510
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,700
here's a summary of that Lakebury. Do you

511
00:40:36,700 --> 00:40:43,220
criteria? There are no trees being removed. Use from the lake. They're not exceeding that three foot

512
00:40:43,220 --> 00:40:50,360
maximum. The neighbor views. Again, both neighbors approve the additions on the site plan.

513
00:40:51,340 --> 00:40:55,340
The neighbor to the north is on 92, they are requesting 93.

514
00:40:55,740 --> 00:40:59,420
The south is a vacant lot, which might come to you in the future.

515
00:41:00,260 --> 00:41:04,340
The curvature of the lake creates the southwestern facing view lake.

516
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:10,540
Like recent lakefront approvals along the portion of this lake, there would not be any significant

517
00:41:10,540 --> 00:41:12,820
effect of the traditional view.

518
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:19,140
And the storm water, they're adding an additional swell to the ones that's already existing

519
00:41:19,140 --> 00:41:21,260
and a lot. And with that stuff,

520
00:41:21,260 --> 00:41:22,680
recommendation is for approval.

521
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,120
So it meets all the recurrent review criteria.

522
00:41:27,420 --> 00:41:29,420
And the only variance is requested

523
00:41:29,420 --> 00:41:32,220
or a five-inch side setback variance.

524
00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:34,020
And then the rear setback variance.

525
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,020
How much is the rear setback variance?

526
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:36,900
That's being requested.

527
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,960
So I believe there.

528
00:41:41,420 --> 00:41:42,780
Let me go back to that.

529
00:41:48,670 --> 00:41:50,550
Think they were at.

530
00:41:50,670 --> 00:41:52,310
See what the rear was.

531
00:41:52,310 --> 00:41:59,450
So the average lakefront has to be 101 and they're asking for 90.

532
00:42:00,010 --> 00:42:02,810
So the 11 foot variance?

533
00:42:03,290 --> 00:42:03,310
Yes.

534
00:42:04,170 --> 00:42:12,190
And if you look at the other houses on the lake, they're roughly around that 90.

535
00:42:13,630 --> 00:42:17,070
So the only one that's set back really far is that vacant lot.

536
00:42:17,730 --> 00:42:19,910
So that's why the average is a little bit higher.

537
00:42:20,570 --> 00:42:25,650
then let's say if you if you go down the line.

538
00:42:28,430 --> 00:42:30,170
Any other questions for city staff?

539
00:42:30,610 --> 00:42:37,530
Yeah one you kept referencing a neighbor to the north with Balmer out sort of runs pretty

540
00:42:37,530 --> 00:42:42,790
much east in the west which one is the one to the north. The top green property.

541
00:42:45,700 --> 00:42:45,700
Okay.

542
00:42:48,350 --> 00:42:49,510
So more north western.

543
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,060
Can we see the site plan again?

544
00:43:02,310 --> 00:43:03,850
The area in dark gray is the

545
00:43:05,890 --> 00:43:12,850
So there's a line in the rear, they're extending the garage, I think some storage space.

546
00:43:20,260 --> 00:43:24,100
We had any comments from any of the neighbors negative or positive?

547
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,940
Yes, both neighbors are in favor of the proposal.

548
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,480
So that's the one of the north and the empty lot to the south.

549
00:43:33,380 --> 00:43:33,900
Both owners.

550
00:43:38,090 --> 00:43:39,370
What are the questions for staff?

551
00:43:40,290 --> 00:43:40,730
Mr. Dick?

552
00:43:40,730 --> 00:43:53,390
Yeah, just one screen, similar to our application last month for a single family, Lakefront home.

553
00:43:53,950 --> 00:43:59,610
We know that the city is sort of restricted on front-loaded garages.

554
00:44:00,430 --> 00:44:09,750
And again, I didn't see any specific elevation here that gave dimensions that you showed compliance with that particular guidelines.

555
00:44:09,750 --> 00:44:19,790
So are you talking about the three foot or are you talking about the dimensions of the garage doors the the maximum opening?

556
00:44:20,050 --> 00:44:29,150
I did see one one measurement of the total wall the wall of 22 feet in my insinuate

557
00:44:29,150 --> 00:44:34,890
That that arrows down to an 18 foot opening which is you can't exceed that

558
00:44:34,890 --> 00:44:37,210
but I can't tell plus the mentioned.

559
00:44:38,090 --> 00:44:41,970
So I just want to put the same caveat in the approval.

560
00:44:43,210 --> 00:44:44,450
We can put the same condition.

561
00:44:44,450 --> 00:44:47,450
You know, that is in compliance with that one specific kind.

562
00:44:47,550 --> 00:44:51,450
Yeah, so if you go, if the board wants to put that condition,

563
00:44:52,850 --> 00:44:53,930
that can be done.

564
00:45:02,660 --> 00:45:08,120
Okay, thank you. Do we have any members of the public who wish to speak on the application?

565
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,380
We did not have any one of them. I'm sorry. Is the applicant, would the applicant care to make a presentation?

566
00:45:13,220 --> 00:45:13,680
My apologies.

567
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,360
First, the one on the, or is it?

568
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,500
All right, Chris Barnes, First Properties, ten-fourteen, West Fairbanks Avenue.

569
00:45:37,780 --> 00:45:44,480
The owner is also in presence here, but looking at what you've got here, the existing house.

570
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:50,160
Everything gray to the south is all solid edition.

571
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,360
Everything towards the lake is an open one eye.

572
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,380
So it's roofed, but it's currently has no one eye.

573
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,480
So that's the only thing we're encouraging on the lake side.

574
00:46:00,860 --> 00:46:03,120
It's still an open air of the line.

575
00:46:05,900 --> 00:46:09,980
I know the property to the south is already developed their plans.

576
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:11,960
They're moving in line with our house.

577
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:16,080
So at that point, if you took the averages of what they proposed, I know it hasn't been

578
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:17,160
permanent yet and approved.

579
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,420
We wouldn't need the variance on the south side or the lakeside.

580
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,000
The five inches is just us trying to keep the house where it up and make the

581
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:27,880
roof lawns work perfectly.

582
00:46:29,860 --> 00:46:33,860
So as far as the garage door question, yes, it is an 18 inch 18 foot garage

583
00:46:33,860 --> 00:46:37,480
door with two foot side columns on either side of it.

584
00:46:37,740 --> 00:46:39,160
It gives you the 22 feet.

585
00:46:46,020 --> 00:46:50,240
We've got approval from both the neighbors to the north and the neighbors to the south.

586
00:46:53,260 --> 00:46:54,540
Any questions for the applicant?

587
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:13,340
So when you said the gray, the dark gray part, where are the 9.7, 9 feet, 7 inches is that box.

588
00:47:13,540 --> 00:47:17,180
If we were to cut that along that line, the box with the 9.7 is enclosed.

589
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,900
The other box to the left of it is open.

590
00:47:27,900 --> 00:47:47,580
So if you look here, where you see the cut to A41, that's an open air porch, where it's open at the top as well, when beam across there, and then the line that comes just off to the peak to the right vertical down, that's the rise to the addition portion.

591
00:47:50,450 --> 00:47:52,130
Is there a rear view elevation?

592
00:47:52,590 --> 00:47:54,130
Which one is top as the rear view?

593
00:47:54,290 --> 00:47:54,950
Top as the rear view.

594
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,160
So that's over to the right side.

595
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:01,660
Right.

596
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,500
And then here you can see the bottom.

597
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,620
This is the additional the rear.

598
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,300
You see how it's an open air condition.

599
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,460
I guess in conjunction with this, I'm at.

600
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:33,060
Do we have any idea what the neighbor to the south is proposing to build on that property right now and how we don't.

601
00:48:33,260 --> 00:48:33,540
No.

602
00:48:33,820 --> 00:48:34,300
No.

603
00:48:34,300 --> 00:48:40,580
of considering this be a waiver, a very answering, measuring a house that was demolished.

604
00:48:41,660 --> 00:48:47,320
So it's no longer really relevant, it's just the only house we had to measure the average

605
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:47,860
to.

606
00:48:48,020 --> 00:48:48,540
I got you.

607
00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:52,680
My only concern, the reason I'm asking you a question is, is I'm worried about presidential

608
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:53,180
effect?

609
00:48:53,540 --> 00:48:55,840
Yeah, I mean, this is the new lake for an average.

610
00:49:01,530 --> 00:49:08,070
The property does sit along sort of the houses are facing one way kind of opposite.

611
00:49:08,590 --> 00:49:09,350
Curve it like that.

612
00:49:09,350 --> 00:49:10,950
They're not going to block each other's views.

613
00:49:11,550 --> 00:49:14,690
Within the last year, we saw the neighbor to the Northwest.

614
00:49:15,450 --> 00:49:21,010
And the one beyond that have both asked for, like, front and approachments to be in line with the other houses.

615
00:49:21,390 --> 00:49:22,870
That continue along that curvature.

616
00:49:24,410 --> 00:49:29,630
So they're basically in line with the prevailing pattern of that top portion.

617
00:49:29,630 --> 00:49:37,550
You know, the next house is probably the last one that I can say is on that northeastern curvature of the lake.

618
00:49:38,350 --> 00:49:50,030
So in terms of precedent, we've either seen either a new house or an addition bill on most of the properties that we've seen that are going to have that same view shed.

619
00:49:50,030 --> 00:49:52,070
Thank you. Mr. Seagull.

620
00:49:52,310 --> 00:49:57,410
The house on the back in a lot just went down two to three months ago.

621
00:49:58,050 --> 00:50:02,010
If it was still there, would always work, would it?

622
00:50:02,650 --> 00:50:02,730
Okay.

623
00:50:03,190 --> 00:50:05,110
That's when everything comes from right now.

624
00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:10,950
We're treating it as it is still there because we have no idea what the new house is going to be.

625
00:50:11,570 --> 00:50:19,070
Obviously, the setback here is advantageous in terms of the Lakefront average for the neighbor to the south.

626
00:50:19,910 --> 00:50:24,950
But we have no idea what that's going to be proposed as we haven't seen any plans.

627
00:50:25,790 --> 00:50:29,070
You know, it's in one of our, I'm sure they're going to underbuild it.

628
00:50:32,870 --> 00:50:33,610
Thank you, sir.

629
00:50:33,990 --> 00:50:34,930
Thank you.

630
00:50:36,190 --> 00:50:39,870
I think I asked once Mariana, there are no members of the public who are just speaking on this?

631
00:50:39,870 --> 00:50:40,990
No, there we go.

632
00:50:41,690 --> 00:50:43,390
Okay, we'll go into closed session.

633
00:50:43,850 --> 00:50:45,430
Open the floor to any comments.

634
00:50:46,310 --> 00:50:50,250
I'm wondering why there aren't no issues with this.

635
00:50:50,710 --> 00:50:54,250
Honestly, the issue is going to be with the next house that comes in and make

636
00:50:54,250 --> 00:50:58,030
sure that they just meet line of sight.

637
00:50:59,330 --> 00:51:00,590
So, well, they're asking for two variants.

638
00:51:01,110 --> 00:51:03,670
The five inch variants, I don't consider to be material.

639
00:51:04,430 --> 00:51:08,590
11 feet is a material variance, but which may probably go away with the next house

640
00:51:08,590 --> 00:51:09,050
comes in.

641
00:51:09,070 --> 00:51:11,070
And that's where the issue is going to come up.

642
00:51:11,070 --> 00:51:17,310
But we're establishing what Allison's my question Allison was making the point that we're

643
00:51:17,310 --> 00:51:25,470
but if we approve this we're establishing a new rear setback average at that the new owner

644
00:51:25,470 --> 00:51:30,490
that the person building to the south could use to their advantage to put that house closer to the lake.

645
00:51:30,850 --> 00:51:33,410
And I'm just concerned about creating precedent here.

646
00:51:33,490 --> 00:51:37,990
Yeah, I mean every single time you approve one of these you set a new average.

647
00:51:37,990 --> 00:51:39,570
right. So.

648
00:51:41,970 --> 00:51:45,210
But there was a house there. We'd know what the, what the, what the real

649
00:51:45,210 --> 00:51:49,330
averages and what we were really talking about as of now. Yeah. Yeah. We were sort of

650
00:51:49,330 --> 00:51:53,290
pretending like you old house is still there. It's worth noting. I'll pull up the map too.

651
00:51:53,370 --> 00:51:59,350
But as we get closer to the actual eastern portion side of the lake, the lot start

652
00:51:59,350 --> 00:52:06,510
to shrink. They get, they get closer. I couldn't tell you what those setbacks are.

653
00:52:09,310 --> 00:52:09,310
You

654
00:52:09,310 --> 00:52:14,530
do encroach closer to the lake. This and the neighbor to the south are probably the deepest

655
00:52:14,530 --> 00:52:20,590
two lots on that portion of the lake. You know, so we have the neighbors to the north that

656
00:52:20,590 --> 00:52:24,190
are encroached, you know, that are roughly about 90. I've adventure to guess they're probably

657
00:52:24,190 --> 00:52:29,470
about 80 to 90 on that portion, but you know, I can't tell you. I mean, with any lake front,

658
00:52:29,470 --> 00:52:29,970
a lot worse.

659
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:41,460
It's on the curve of less concerned about presidential effect, because of this unique nature of the type of lot we're talking about, but still, I wanted to ask the question on address it.

660
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:54,860
But I mean, I see your point that there's not a lot to discuss here, but I mean, as always looking at the pictures, it looked like the issue is that those two deep lots that are creating that 110 feet.

661
00:52:54,860 --> 00:52:57,520
And if you, I mean, it's all a guest in it, obviously.

662
00:52:57,860 --> 00:53:00,120
But as I looked at the pictures of the houses to the north

663
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,120
and the few to the south, it looked like those, uh,

664
00:53:03,460 --> 00:53:06,220
we were setbacks were short. Yeah.

665
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:10,240
So I guess I'm just not as concerned as, I understand the issue of precedent.

666
00:53:10,620 --> 00:53:14,160
Makes total sense. I'm just not back concerned in this particular case.

667
00:53:16,500 --> 00:53:18,680
Could look at that picture again and see where, you know.

668
00:53:18,900 --> 00:53:24,620
No. I noticed the two, and I think the reason the setback is what it is right now

669
00:53:24,620 --> 00:53:29,280
because that house that has been torn down was pretty safe and way from pretty

670
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:29,560
people.

671
00:53:31,260 --> 00:53:32,220
Thank you.

672
00:53:32,220 --> 00:53:32,740
Thank you.

673
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:34,140
Thank you.

674
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:34,940
Yeah.

675
00:53:35,020 --> 00:53:39,520
You can tell those two houses to the directly to the south of where the one that's been

676
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,600
torn down, they're pretty close to the lake.

677
00:53:43,940 --> 00:53:44,080
Okay.

678
00:53:44,980 --> 00:53:45,840
Thank you.

679
00:53:46,380 --> 00:53:46,620
Thank you.

680
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:48,280
Other comments?

681
00:53:50,300 --> 00:53:51,300
I'll entertain a motion.

682
00:53:53,240 --> 00:54:01,000
The vacant lot is somewhat pretty much rectangular as opposed to I should, I think, it shouldn't

683
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,300
him in, but anyway, it looks good to me.

684
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:06,480
Is that a motion to approve?

685
00:54:07,980 --> 00:54:08,900
A motion to approve.

686
00:54:09,460 --> 00:54:09,920
Well, second.

687
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:11,520
The motion is second.

688
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:12,860
Can I have a roll call, though, please?

689
00:54:13,460 --> 00:54:13,800
Yes.

690
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:14,780
Mr. Steinberg?

691
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:15,320
Aye.

692
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:16,400
Mr. Dick?

693
00:54:16,700 --> 00:54:17,080
Yes.

694
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:17,560
Yes.

695
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:19,640
Mr. Siegel?

696
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:20,300
Yes.

697
00:54:20,300 --> 00:54:20,440
Yes.

698
00:54:21,940 --> 00:54:22,320
Chairman Johnson.

699
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:22,840
Aye.

700
00:54:29,310 --> 00:54:29,910
See.

701
00:54:30,490 --> 00:54:31,210
Any board members?

702
00:54:31,370 --> 00:54:32,670
Nick Lewis, Planner 2.

703
00:54:33,130 --> 00:54:34,550
I'll be handling the next item.

704
00:54:34,690 --> 00:54:36,230
This is conditional user quest.

705
00:54:36,410 --> 00:54:39,090
This is request of L car wash Florida LLC.

706
00:54:39,890 --> 00:54:47,170
For a conditional user approval to construct a new 3,707 square foot automated car wash facility.

707
00:54:47,170 --> 00:54:53,590
The property is two parcels, 2011, along with Avenue and four 16-lander road, both parcels

708
00:54:53,590 --> 00:54:54,870
are zone and C3 commercial.

709
00:54:57,260 --> 00:55:02,900
Here's a quick location in zoning, both C3, flanked on the eastern west with C1 and

710
00:55:02,900 --> 00:55:08,460
C3 properties, the difference between C1 and C3 is C1 is generally reserved for more shopping

711
00:55:08,460 --> 00:55:09,200
center types.

712
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:14,640
Zoning, C3 is our general standard commercial, and then we have single family residential

713
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:17,820
and the rear behind the back of the lander property.

714
00:55:18,940 --> 00:55:21,960
We've got the Sprout shopping center to the west.

715
00:55:22,220 --> 00:55:25,780
We have the public shopping center and the mellow mushroom to the right.

716
00:55:27,140 --> 00:55:31,360
On-site currently, both parcels are not being utilized.

717
00:55:31,620 --> 00:55:37,240
We have the former fifth-third bank building with the drive-through in teller lanes on the

718
00:55:37,240 --> 00:55:43,440
a loma parcel. We have a previous self-service car wash facility on the northern partial

719
00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:51,640
offlander. Here's just a quick existing condition survey. You can see we've got the car wash

720
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:56,040
facility in the rear and then we have the bank facility with the tele lanes towards the front of the

721
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:56,280
loma.

722
00:55:58,690 --> 00:56:05,890
Quick site photos of what exists there today. You can see the banks developed the car wash

723
00:56:05,890 --> 00:56:11,190
relatively old development, a lot of pervious coverage, a lot of curb cut area, and that's

724
00:56:11,190 --> 00:56:16,710
on the land or road portion. There are two trees that are going to be preserved as part of

725
00:56:16,710 --> 00:56:24,050
this request. The tree on the left is on the subject property that's the fifth or third bank. It is

726
00:56:24,050 --> 00:56:30,090
within the subject parcel, however, it's being preserved by the applicant. And then there is a large

727
00:56:30,090 --> 00:56:36,450
specimen oak tree in the back, that is also being preserved, that's on the current car wash

728
00:56:36,450 --> 00:56:36,910
facility.

729
00:56:39,650 --> 00:56:44,230
Here's a quick site plan of the proposed car wash facility, a couple of things

730
00:56:44,230 --> 00:57:00,950
that I want to note here. We have as proposed a left-in right-in left-out only entrance. I'll get into

731
00:57:00,950 --> 00:57:08,650
up towards the aloma side as opposed to back towards the residential side. We have internal

732
00:57:08,650 --> 00:57:14,630
location or transformer. We have a proposed dumpster enclosure that's meeting the 35 foot

733
00:57:14,630 --> 00:57:20,910
setback and then we also have the required six foot masonry wall screen with the 10 feet of

734
00:57:20,910 --> 00:57:25,050
landscape buffer facing the single-family residential to the rear.

735
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:30,400
A couple rear setbacks. It's 45 feet

736
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:39,020
proposed to the opening of the driveway is 35 feet, which is the minimum to the corner of the dumpster enclosure.

737
00:57:40,020 --> 00:57:48,360
It's just under 70 feet to the closest vacuum facility, and then it's 150 feet from the rear property line to the edge of the building.

738
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:59,440
Also here on note queuing, there's enough for 14 spaces, there's 12 weighting spaces, and there's two more weighting spaces in here,

739
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:04,720
and then we have the pay stations here before you go into the car wash in a single file format.

740
00:58:07,230 --> 00:58:08,910
Stormwater management plan.

741
00:58:09,610 --> 00:58:13,350
We've got both above ground and underground storage.

742
00:58:13,630 --> 00:58:18,870
We have underground retention located in the dry vials here highlighted in gray.

743
00:58:19,930 --> 00:58:24,170
And then on the northwestern corner is an above ground retention pond.

744
00:58:24,670 --> 00:58:29,090
Staff is proposing the same condition that we saw with the Haller property that that

745
00:58:31,590 --> 00:58:36,410
change to a more natural shape, and I'll get into that in a little bit as well.

746
00:58:38,140 --> 00:58:41,820
Tree management plan, again, those two oak trees are being preserved.

747
00:58:41,980 --> 00:58:45,820
There are five other specimen trees currently on the two properties.

748
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:52,920
The three highlighted here, one, two, three are all within the existing landscape islands

749
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:59,560
of the bank building, and then the two others are within the property boundary between

750
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:06,080
the two parcels. Obviously the parcels are now becoming combined, being redeveloped, the applicant

751
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:12,080
has provided a tree mitigation plan for the five trees being removed, seven trees will be proposed.

752
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:18,940
And here is that landscape plan, so they're meeting all of our landscape requirements,

753
00:59:19,420 --> 00:59:25,640
they're screening any type of enclosure, be it dumpster, vacuum, transformer, otherwise,

754
00:59:26,340 --> 00:59:37,300
They're meeting the 10-foot buffer, Mr. Drink Fellow brought up at our work session about the understory trees, making sure that they're going all the way down.

755
00:59:37,340 --> 00:59:40,240
That's been added as a condition of approval since that comment.

756
00:59:41,260 --> 00:59:45,680
So we can address that a couple quick elevations,

757
00:59:50,230 --> 00:59:51,010
renderings

758
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:55,140
with that.

759
00:59:55,140 --> 00:59:57,740
I spend most of the time going through the conditions of approval.

760
00:59:57,740 --> 00:59:59,040
Yes, sir.

761
00:59:59,040 --> 00:59:59,780
Take the aerial.

762
01:00:07,580 --> 01:00:08,300
So

763
01:00:10,820 --> 01:00:19,520
we've received correspondence from the neighborhood in the rear. We've received three letters in opposition, one letter in favor.

764
01:00:20,220 --> 01:00:28,240
The main issues include additional cut-through and increased traffic on Taylor Edwin and basically the neighborhood at large.

765
01:00:29,100 --> 01:00:35,200
noise, stormwater runoff and retention, and just the general use as a car wash itself.

766
01:00:36,860 --> 01:00:41,200
By and large traffic concerns are the largest concern.

767
01:00:42,220 --> 01:00:46,360
I think that was first seen from the offset, so staff had requested that they do

768
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:47,260
a left-out only.

769
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:57,250
The applicant did that, seeing the amount of opposition to making sure that there's any sort

770
01:00:57,250 --> 01:01:03,550
cut through traffic, staff has proposed the first condition that you see here that it be adjusted

771
01:01:03,550 --> 01:01:09,510
to a right in, left out only pattern with the appropriate radius, directional signage, and

772
01:01:09,510 --> 01:01:14,910
raised curve to minimize the amount of potential illegal right out turns and cut through traffic

773
01:01:14,910 --> 01:01:20,230
through the neighborhood. What this does, this gives our transportation folks some teeth in order

774
01:01:20,230 --> 01:01:24,750
to make sure that the applicant provides no justification of permitting that whatever the final

775
01:01:24,750 --> 01:01:33,110
proposal is, we have done everything we can to limit any sort of illegal right out in traffic

776
01:01:33,110 --> 01:01:38,990
patterns. Also with the right end and left out, that means that we become a little bit

777
01:01:38,990 --> 01:01:43,930
sharper, making sure that we're actually directing people to the south, and what it does

778
01:01:43,930 --> 01:01:49,610
that keeps people going south on Lakemont who want to cut back through those property, the

779
01:01:49,610 --> 01:01:53,990
neighborhood to the back, to be able to come in the back way and enter the property. You have

780
01:01:53,990 --> 01:02:00,450
enter from the Aloma portion. There's also going back to the aerial row fest.

781
01:02:03,570 --> 01:02:04,070
You can see

782
01:02:04,070 --> 01:02:08,350
it so if you're directed south on Aloma, let's say you wanted to go north on Lakemont,

783
01:02:09,130 --> 01:02:13,750
the main entrance to the Sprout Shopping Center is about 30 feet north of the Lakemont.

784
01:02:14,190 --> 01:02:19,690
That does bump out or pop out on the opposite side to be able to go north on Lakemont.

785
01:02:19,790 --> 01:02:24,090
If you didn't want to go on Aloma, just to go north on Lakemont.

786
01:02:31,430 --> 01:02:31,970
There's no

787
01:02:32,670 --> 01:02:38,630
egress from either from that shopping center north onto Edwin Wright?

788
01:02:38,750 --> 01:02:38,830
No.

789
01:02:39,570 --> 01:02:39,610
Okay.

790
01:02:41,550 --> 01:02:45,030
The second condition, the other thing that we've heard of was noise.

791
01:02:45,170 --> 01:02:48,430
This is an attempt to limit that somewhat later in the evening.

792
01:02:49,290 --> 01:02:53,930
Most L. car wash locations located in Central Florida closed APM.

793
01:02:54,310 --> 01:02:56,450
Per their community meeting.

794
01:02:56,490 --> 01:02:59,830
They mentioned that their operating hours would go till 9.

795
01:02:59,830 --> 01:03:15,550
It's asked proposing that their car wash and vacuums facility sees it eight, consistent with all other L-car wash locations, and then the all non-essential lighting and related to the building and vacuums be cut off promptly at APM.

796
01:03:16,610 --> 01:03:26,050
The third that I'll use in a band and curb cuts that exist on site of both parcels today are have the apron removed and replaced with appropriate curb and landscaping.

797
01:03:26,050 --> 01:03:28,550
the applicant did show that on the site plans.

798
01:03:28,810 --> 01:03:31,010
They're already meeting that, but we want to make sure

799
01:03:31,010 --> 01:03:32,530
that that goes all the way through permitting.

800
01:03:34,370 --> 01:03:37,110
For, they provided a preliminary sign package.

801
01:03:39,130 --> 01:03:41,730
Staff's recommending approval that the final sign package

802
01:03:41,730 --> 01:03:43,110
meets all sign requirements.

803
01:03:43,930 --> 01:03:47,870
The general areas, locations, signage types are OK.

804
01:03:48,330 --> 01:03:49,750
There's just some minor modifications

805
01:03:49,750 --> 01:03:51,830
that need to be made, so we want to make sure

806
01:03:51,830 --> 01:03:56,790
any size, as illumination, any sign types are adjusted accordingly.

807
01:03:58,450 --> 01:04:03,210
Five, right now, the proposals that employees will be parked in the vacuum stations,

808
01:04:03,590 --> 01:04:07,830
just making sure that there's not a world where employees are parking over across

809
01:04:07,830 --> 01:04:13,650
its sprouts or behind the public's shopping center.

810
01:04:13,650 --> 01:04:16,330
We want to make sure that employees are being parked on site.

811
01:04:18,390 --> 01:04:20,410
6, that the design of the pawn,

812
01:04:20,510 --> 01:04:24,630
be refined to incorporate and naturalize shape rather than rigid edges.

813
01:04:25,670 --> 01:04:29,130
And then 7, based off of Mr. Schringfeld's comments

814
01:04:29,130 --> 01:04:32,190
of the work session, that we make sure that those provided

815
01:04:32,190 --> 01:04:35,770
understory trees along the northern property line,

816
01:04:36,220 --> 01:04:41,010
as part of the landscape buffer, are there throughout the entire property line.

817
01:04:42,150 --> 01:04:44,170
So with that, I'm happy to take any questions.

818
01:04:44,170 --> 01:04:47,810
I know the applicant's team is here as well.

819
01:04:47,990 --> 01:04:54,010
Yes, they're going to close the car wash and vacuum facilities at 8.

820
01:04:54,230 --> 01:05:00,230
So I would imagine that would mean no one enters after 730 or so, right?

821
01:05:00,510 --> 01:05:04,490
Yeah, since I'll let the applicant speak to maybe the last amount of time that they would

822
01:05:04,490 --> 01:05:08,550
need in order, you know, when the last car could essentially go through in order to make sure

823
01:05:08,550 --> 01:05:10,370
that all facilities cease at 8.

824
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:20,040
The question is Billy, any other questions for staff?

825
01:05:20,580 --> 01:05:21,440
Mr. Dick.

826
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:23,180
Yeah.

827
01:05:24,540 --> 01:05:26,380
On number one, Nick.

828
01:05:28,180 --> 01:05:29,560
You know, I just had an observation.

829
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:32,900
You know, looking at the signage on,

830
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,380
I think that's landers.

831
01:05:36,220 --> 01:05:40,260
There's only one sign there, you know, saying no parking

832
01:05:40,260 --> 01:05:44,080
and then one sign on the same pole, you know,

833
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:46,300
you're saying no, no, through traffic.

834
01:05:47,420 --> 01:05:51,860
And that sign was more than halfway into the project

835
01:05:51,860 --> 01:05:53,420
on landers.

836
01:05:53,700 --> 01:05:57,080
So I'm wondering, and this isn't the applicants' responsibility,

837
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:01,560
but I'm thinking maybe the city might want to relocate

838
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:07,160
that existing sign closer to a Loma,

839
01:06:07,820 --> 01:06:09,900
not that that's going to make a whole lot of difference,

840
01:06:09,900 --> 01:06:26,020
But it might, and then maybe add one additional no-through street parking up closer to the, you know, the residential neighborhood, you know, it's extra reinforcement. Again, it might not help.

841
01:06:26,020 --> 01:06:27,160
it might.

842
01:06:29,700 --> 01:06:36,980
On the number of five, all the employees must be parked on site, I think there's

843
01:06:36,980 --> 01:06:44,980
a total of 17 vacum stations. So it is a my understanding that the employees will be

844
01:06:44,980 --> 01:06:53,720
parking in one of those 12-ness private applicants, you know, response, you know, parking spaces

845
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:59,740
or 17 maybe. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's staff's concern as well. There's 17 parking spaces.

846
01:06:59,940 --> 01:07:04,720
There's 16 vacuum spaces. The last space is 80A so they can't put back in facilities there.

847
01:07:05,900 --> 01:07:09,800
The applicant is answer and I'll let them speak to it as well.

848
01:07:09,860 --> 01:07:14,760
Is that the employees will be taking up if there's only going to be two or three employees at a time.

849
01:07:14,860 --> 01:07:17,980
They'll be taking up two or three of those vacuum spaces.

850
01:07:18,940 --> 01:07:21,640
That's how it's supposed to make sure that the employees are staying on site.

851
01:07:22,460 --> 01:07:26,100
So if the applicant's desire is to...

852
01:07:26,100 --> 01:07:29,940
That's how the aerial showed the additional parking on the back side of it, isn't it?

853
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:42,780
So, we've got the 10 spaces here, plus the 7 spaces here for 17.

854
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:52,040
Yeah, I didn't see any designated employee parking, which is why I was asking the question because

855
01:07:52,040 --> 01:08:03,060
I think I saw somewhere also in the parking details that accompanied the site plan that there was five employees.

856
01:08:03,060 --> 01:08:05,800
I don't know if that's five employees on one shift,

857
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:10,940
or you mentioned two or three of the applicant can provide the number.

858
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:11,660
Speak to you.

859
01:08:11,940 --> 01:08:16,600
And I can't imagine, you know, taking up five potential,

860
01:08:16,740 --> 01:08:21,480
or even the three potential, you know, money-making,

861
01:08:23,140 --> 01:08:26,280
you know, opportunities, I guess, for the vacuum stations,

862
01:08:26,580 --> 01:08:27,180
but I'll let them.

863
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:29,620
Yeah, yeah, I'll let them speak to it.

864
01:08:29,620 --> 01:08:35,060
I think what they're coming from is that besides peak hour, which is usually Friday evenings

865
01:08:35,060 --> 01:08:41,620
and Saturday mornings, not every station is going to be full, probably about half the

866
01:08:41,620 --> 01:08:44,900
stations at maximum would be full, but I'll let them speak to it.

867
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:56,920
You mentioned that previously, Mr. Strinkfell, I had mentioned the four understory trees along

868
01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:04,740
the back, because I only saw four in the specs, but one of the conditions now is to bring

869
01:09:04,740 --> 01:09:06,480
those all along the back wall.

870
01:09:07,020 --> 01:09:11,780
Right, I'm not sure if they were left off intentionally or not, but we added that condition

871
01:09:11,780 --> 01:09:12,720
that they do that.

872
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:17,780
Then the other thing that Mr. String fellow brought up was the vacuum tower.

873
01:09:18,060 --> 01:09:20,680
It is enclosed, and it is the enclosure's landscape.

874
01:09:21,900 --> 01:09:26,580
I believe the applicant is prepared to talk about the noise from the facility at

875
01:09:26,580 --> 01:09:32,740
and the bits and pieces and to see if there's a better location for that, or if that is in the best available location.

876
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:41,580
Okay, one known as long the front, the landscaping that was specced.

877
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:50,620
You've got four or five crate murdals, one, two, three, actually six crate murdals, along that whole frontage.

878
01:09:50,620 --> 01:09:54,880
And, you know, that's, that's colorful, which is good.

879
01:09:54,880 --> 01:10:01,440
I always like to see seasonal color, but that has a downside of, you know, being leafless,

880
01:10:01,660 --> 01:10:05,600
you know, a deciduous, you know, for six months out of the years.

881
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:15,720
So, you might want to, you know, add some, you know, solid, you know, non-deciduous, not across

882
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:23,360
the whole front, but maybe on the anchor corners, and whatever that was being would be

883
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:24,340
up to the applicant,

884
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:33,540
I think I noticed on the east elevation and I know these are probably

885
01:10:33,540 --> 01:10:41,600
conceptual, but it looked like there's a chain length fence along that property line on

886
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:43,380
the east elevation on the colored one.

887
01:10:43,380 --> 01:10:50,200
if anything that is probably existing on the property line well the polls are existing but there's no no

888
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:58,140
fencing yeah either in residence or commercial chain links not a permitted fence type so they would have to do a permitted

889
01:10:58,140 --> 01:11:02,060
fence type be aluminum you know rod iron picket would

890
01:11:02,060 --> 01:11:08,820
PVC something along okay so there is no chain link fence on shown in the elevation correct yeah okay

891
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:20,360
Could you go into a little more detail from a zoning point of view on the heights of the

892
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:28,980
buildings and see three zoning and I know C3 allows two or three stories but it doesn't

893
01:11:28,980 --> 01:11:38,300
really designate feet per say. I think this project expected 35 feet. I was wondering how we got

894
01:11:38,300 --> 01:11:49,240
Yeah, so the 35 feet, so the single story, the proposed tower up towards Aloma is the only portion, it's a 35 feet.

895
01:11:49,660 --> 01:11:57,300
The majority of the building sitting about 20 feet. Both of those are consistent with the one story commercial building in C3.

896
01:11:57,980 --> 01:12:01,820
Well, the point of concerns is the front tower.

897
01:12:01,820 --> 01:12:12,040
being 35 feet, as opposed to 30 feet, per example, which is a one typical, two-story,

898
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:21,280
you'll see three versus 35. So yeah, I mean, for like if this was a residential, if it was on the larger side,

899
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:31,300
we allow 35 feet for a two-story, you know, single-family home, so there's not not precedent within the city to allow 35 feet.

900
01:12:31,300 --> 01:12:35,800
But I hear what you're saying, you know, do the applicant see if the, if 35 is.

901
01:12:35,980 --> 01:12:37,840
I think there's more of a zoning thing.

902
01:12:39,180 --> 01:12:42,440
You know, I know one of their sites doesn't have a tower at all.

903
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:49,340
So I don't know if that's, obviously part of branding versus, you know, visibility and whatnot.

904
01:12:49,820 --> 01:12:51,380
But you know, I'll let the applicant do that.

905
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:57,160
I prefer, you know, I feel the 35 feeds a little, you know, imposing.

906
01:13:02,540 --> 01:13:12,720
So, and finally, was there any, you know, question or, you know, thought of doing a noise

907
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:17,420
abatement study, you know, there's a lot of studies attached to this, you know, soils

908
01:13:17,420 --> 01:13:23,940
and drainage, stormwater, et cetera, with this particular application at this particular

909
01:13:23,940 --> 01:13:31,300
site. I'm wondering if that was considered and whether that might be something we might want to see.

910
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:36,300
Yeah, I believe the applicants prepared to speak to the noise of the different, you know,

911
01:13:36,440 --> 01:13:40,800
the decimal levels and different portions of the structure, the vacuums, the vacant hours,

912
01:13:40,940 --> 01:13:46,440
all that. I believe they're, you know, available to speak to that. The code requires the traffic

913
01:13:46,440 --> 01:13:51,460
study in the stormwater analysis. We don't have a noise abatement, a requirement as part of the

914
01:13:51,460 --> 01:13:57,180
additional use required documents, but I believe the applicants prepared to speak to that.

915
01:13:58,200 --> 01:13:58,720
That's all.

916
01:13:59,300 --> 01:14:00,400
I have a question.

917
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:11,580
Regarding the tower, is there any other building along Aloma that has a building of

918
01:14:11,580 --> 01:14:15,820
this height at this setback along the corridor?

919
01:14:20,860 --> 01:14:24,200
There's office buildings along Aloma that has three stories.

920
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:30,400
Okay, but what's the front set back for 10 feet, 10 feet?

921
01:14:31,260 --> 01:14:33,640
What's the requirement for C3?

922
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:34,360
Okay, but.

923
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:37,720
I think the point is the 35 foot portion of it is right up on the road.

924
01:14:38,220 --> 01:14:40,520
Yeah, right here you have a four-story height limit.

925
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:42,140
Because it's next to Eloma.

926
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:43,320
But I'm just wondering.

927
01:14:44,480 --> 01:14:46,680
Is there any other building along?

928
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:48,480
I don't know.

929
01:14:48,900 --> 01:14:54,690
I don't know.

930
01:14:54,690 --> 01:14:59,970
because we didn't do that. I don't think they're building that's ten feet from...

931
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:15,560
The question is probably 10 feet from the right of way, but it's not. It's probably 28 to 30 feet tall, which will be the most room next door. It's right up on the street. It's only as a 10 foot setback.

932
01:15:18,380 --> 01:15:22,620
So in terms of setback, I mean, that's what C3 requires, but yeah, you're right, in terms of height.

933
01:15:23,220 --> 01:15:35,340
I'm sure it's a consistency along the corridor and the visual appeal and then also you've got this 35-foot tower kind of stands out like it's worth on

934
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:38,620
Well, the hot pink neon sign will help with it.

935
01:15:39,300 --> 01:15:39,320
Yeah.

936
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:41,360
The motion has parking in front.

937
01:15:41,580 --> 01:15:42,660
So it's set for the back,

938
01:15:46,480 --> 01:15:46,480
right?

939
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:49,900
Does the proposed signage comply with the code?

940
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:53,600
Yeah, we don't allow neon signage, so they're not proposing neon signage.

941
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:58,220
Yeah, yeah, it's not neon or anything like that, it's, it's not some of their other locations.

942
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:01,000
I think they do, they're proposing channel letter.

943
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:06,580
The proposed locations are all fine, they're, you know, they're all slightly larger.

944
01:16:06,820 --> 01:16:11,200
We have a maximum of 45% I think the proposed are roughly 60 in the preliminary.

945
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:18,100
And then there were some other minor things, like the directional signage, we're on polls.

946
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:20,020
We would prefer those to be a monument style.

947
01:16:20,020 --> 01:16:22,240
So that's all things that we would catch in the sign permit

948
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:23,620
with the final sign code.

949
01:16:24,700 --> 01:16:31,300
That's why we added the sign code condition of approval.

950
01:16:32,020 --> 01:16:36,440
So there is, so sort of, no, because I have another,

951
01:16:36,740 --> 01:16:39,400
it's unrelated to what we're talking about, sign it.

952
01:16:39,700 --> 01:16:41,600
Mine's unrelated to sign code, so please.

953
01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:43,660
All right, so I have a question about employee

954
01:16:43,660 --> 01:16:46,240
back to the employee parking situation.

955
01:16:48,670 --> 01:16:50,950
We really have no designated employee parking

956
01:16:50,950 --> 01:16:57,330
spaces on the site plan and you're saying that they're going to park in the vacuum spaces.

957
01:16:58,590 --> 01:17:06,310
So then I go to why do we have so many vacuum stations then? If employees are going to be parking there?

958
01:17:07,910 --> 01:17:19,780
Yeah, I don't know. So my brain is still. Why can't the footprint be reduced and eliminate

959
01:17:19,780 --> 01:17:26,940
some of the vacuum places and create a greater setback from the residential development.

960
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:32,580
My question is along the lines of what Miss Sarketian just asked, and that is, there is

961
01:17:32,580 --> 01:17:36,300
one parking place here for handicap.

962
01:17:37,420 --> 01:17:37,520
Right.

963
01:17:38,180 --> 01:17:40,840
That is not a vacuum stop-correct, correct.

964
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:46,220
In my mind, the vacuum stalls are, might as well be part of the building, they're part

965
01:17:46,220 --> 01:17:46,760
of the business.

966
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:48,020
It's not parking.

967
01:17:48,620 --> 01:17:53,940
There is no place to park the employees on this proposed property,

968
01:17:56,100 --> 01:17:56,760
unless you park them

969
01:17:56,760 --> 01:18:00,140
somewhere inside what the business is using to conduct its business.

970
01:18:00,660 --> 01:18:02,620
That's not parking to me.

971
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:04,440
I don't know.

972
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:05,080
I agree.

973
01:18:06,300 --> 01:18:12,500
I only initially brought that up because I did visit one or two sites and this one site in particular,

974
01:18:12,500 --> 01:18:20,260
I think in Casalberry, you know, so cars, which I assume were employees, but that was just

975
01:18:20,260 --> 01:18:25,360
an assumption, not really in the space, it was kind of parked, you know, off to the side

976
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:30,240
of the curb, you know, within the property, but it wasn't really a designated space, so it's

977
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:35,140
just kind of like a haphazard, you know, wherever they could grab a space, that's where they were

978
01:18:35,140 --> 01:18:35,760
going to park.

979
01:18:41,810 --> 01:18:42,890
Other questions for staff?

980
01:18:43,570 --> 01:18:44,590
This is your time work.

981
01:18:44,590 --> 01:18:47,090
Could you go back to the landscape plan

982
01:18:50,390 --> 01:18:55,850
and the reason I ask is I'm looking at the rendering

983
01:18:55,850 --> 01:19:05,050
that goes from the dumpster and it comes down, you know, the driveway? What is that?

984
01:19:07,370 --> 01:19:12,710
Yeah, it should be some sort of ground cover hedge. This line here that goes right up.

985
01:19:13,010 --> 01:19:17,030
Yeah, exactly. So how high is that?

986
01:19:17,030 --> 01:19:21,770
It's just continuous hedge and one understory tree and

987
01:19:24,110 --> 01:19:29,290
I don't know how tall I can be out and speak to that.

988
01:19:29,290 --> 01:19:33,470
What's got to cover the entire enclosure so are these six feet?

989
01:19:33,730 --> 01:19:34,510
At least six feet?

990
01:19:36,750 --> 01:19:39,370
And do we know what type of hedge it is?

991
01:19:40,170 --> 01:19:41,290
The applicant can enter that.

992
01:19:44,390 --> 01:19:48,770
Also, and all of these spaces are vacuum spaces.

993
01:19:49,090 --> 01:19:50,870
All except the ADA space, yeah.

994
01:19:51,230 --> 01:19:54,470
Well, the ADA space is the handicap spot.

995
01:19:55,170 --> 01:19:58,530
And then everything to the right of that is vacuum spaces.

996
01:19:58,930 --> 01:19:59,110
All right.

997
01:19:59,510 --> 01:20:03,110
And then what is that space that looks like it's incorporated.

998
01:20:03,390 --> 01:20:08,470
There's a hedge or some landscape that's going, that's right next to those spaces.

999
01:20:08,710 --> 01:20:09,890
Right next to the ADA space?

1000
01:20:10,210 --> 01:20:11,870
No, it's all the way down at the end.

1001
01:20:11,870 --> 01:20:13,890
down at the end here.

1002
01:20:13,890 --> 01:20:15,250
No, the other end.

1003
01:20:15,370 --> 01:20:15,530
The other end.

1004
01:20:15,550 --> 01:20:16,110
Right there.

1005
01:20:16,890 --> 01:20:18,950
That's the pump for the vacuum facilities.

1006
01:20:20,050 --> 01:20:20,250
OK.

1007
01:20:20,410 --> 01:20:21,250
So there's a tower.

1008
01:20:21,770 --> 01:20:25,150
There's another essentially mimic of the dumpster enclosure.

1009
01:20:28,590 --> 01:20:28,850
Right.

1010
01:20:28,970 --> 01:20:29,910
That's what that is.

1011
01:20:29,910 --> 01:20:30,430
OK.

1012
01:20:30,430 --> 01:20:30,710
OK.

1013
01:20:30,710 --> 01:20:31,110
I see.

1014
01:20:31,310 --> 01:20:32,230
Thank you.

1015
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:34,420
I'm just.

1016
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:35,200
I'm just.

1017
01:20:39,300 --> 01:20:41,060
There's equipment in there.

1018
01:20:41,060 --> 01:20:41,420
Yeah.

1019
01:20:41,780 --> 01:20:42,560
It's mechanical equipment.

1020
01:20:42,940 --> 01:20:44,820
And so how high is that?

1021
01:20:44,820 --> 01:20:46,680
I'll let the outcomes speak to that.

1022
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:49,420
That was the other one of Mr. Stringfeld's comments,

1023
01:20:49,680 --> 01:20:51,800
was is that the best location of that,

1024
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:52,440
or is there a difference?

1025
01:20:52,460 --> 01:20:54,480
Also, it's to the residential area.

1026
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:56,460
Correct, which is the genesis for the comment.

1027
01:20:56,620 --> 01:20:58,840
Is that the best location or could it be location

1028
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:00,680
in one of the other parking islands

1029
01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:02,780
or next to the Transformers, something along those lines?

1030
01:21:02,900 --> 01:21:04,860
OK, yeah, I'm just trying to,

1031
01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:07,500
that's obviously a concern is.

1032
01:21:07,500 --> 01:21:08,600
Sure, yeah, I think we can.

1033
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:10,580
All right, thank you.

1034
01:21:10,860 --> 01:21:11,980
Other questions for staff?

1035
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:14,820
Thank you, Nick.

1036
01:21:14,820 --> 01:21:17,220
The applicant care to make a presentation.

1037
01:21:19,100 --> 01:21:19,840
Good evening everyone.

1038
01:21:19,900 --> 01:21:23,980
McRegger, love to 15 North Eola Drive here on behalf of the applicant.

1039
01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:31,880
I'm going to have to adjust to Nick's very thorough and clear presentation and not walk you through a painstaking review of mine.

1040
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:35,940
Nick did a great job outlining most of the points that we would have hit on.

1041
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:39,440
What I will do is introduce the team we have here tonight.

1042
01:21:39,460 --> 01:21:41,740
We have Jordan Draper from Kimley Horn.

1043
01:21:41,740 --> 01:22:11,720
So our project engineer, we also have Alex Quintana from El Carwash, I can tell already from a couple of the comments here that some of you have a background in potentially development and you all have some specific questions for both potentially Jordan and Alex, I know that Alex can speak certainly to the concerns raised about the employee parking, and I also know that he's very familiar with El Carwash is looked into the

1044
01:22:11,740 --> 01:22:18,740
sort of noise abatement issue internally in their operations, and he can I'm sure speak to that as well.

1045
01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:22,640
So I'll briefly go through our presentation.

1046
01:22:23,020 --> 01:22:24,940
You've seen much of this. This is the location.

1047
01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:29,200
And I'll hit on, you know, this is again the existing.

1048
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:34,320
Board is familiar with this property, certainly the residents are familiar with this property.

1049
01:22:36,020 --> 01:22:42,520
But just to underscore, we have the northern parcel, which is a more recently developed bank property.

1050
01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:53,000
And we have the southern parcel, which is an old carwash, just to note along the western boundary, along lander,

1051
01:22:53,580 --> 01:22:58,520
There, on the car wash parcel, there's currently no screening from trees.

1052
01:22:58,740 --> 01:23:04,320
So along that, along that boundary for the car wash parcel, there'll be additional trees.

1053
01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:06,380
Add it as was discussed.

1054
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:09,080
I'll go through these really quickly.

1055
01:23:10,440 --> 01:23:11,100
We've seen, we've seen these.

1056
01:23:11,240 --> 01:23:13,060
We've asked questions about them.

1057
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:14,000
Here are the renderings.

1058
01:23:16,430 --> 01:23:19,350
This I think is an angle that the boards not see initially.

1059
01:23:21,910 --> 01:23:23,190
As this may be.

1060
01:23:37,750 --> 01:23:44,070
And if you would like to discuss any of these at any point during our, during our hearing, please let me know.

1061
01:23:52,670 --> 01:23:56,670
That gives you a better view of the, of the vacuum spaces as well that we're being discussed.

1062
01:23:58,070 --> 01:24:00,650
And I believe that's the last rendering we have.

1063
01:24:01,150 --> 01:24:08,550
Let me, let me just ask the question right now, because you said that the, you know, the representative of the car wash could address there.

1064
01:24:08,910 --> 01:24:13,650
How there employees intend to park, but let me ask you as a, as a land use attorney.

1065
01:24:16,130 --> 01:24:19,190
Are the vacuum stalls parking spaces?

1066
01:24:20,410 --> 01:24:21,550
Yes, that's the intent.

1067
01:24:21,770 --> 01:24:24,110
That's the intent that it would be vacuum space.

1068
01:24:24,310 --> 01:24:26,130
They would be in employee spaces.

1069
01:24:26,730 --> 01:24:28,410
And again, operationally, that's not something

1070
01:24:28,410 --> 01:24:33,810
that I've discussed in detail with Alex and the team.

1071
01:24:34,090 --> 01:24:38,030
That's not vending issue that has been raised until recently,

1072
01:24:39,050 --> 01:24:40,290
but we can discuss that tonight.

1073
01:24:40,490 --> 01:24:43,150
I understand it's the intent to park their employees there.

1074
01:24:43,150 --> 01:24:48,110
What I'm asking you is, do you consider, as somebody who does a lot of land use law and

1075
01:24:48,110 --> 01:24:55,190
development work, do you consider those slots to be parking, dedicated parking for employees?

1076
01:24:55,850 --> 01:25:00,530
I would consider them to be dedicated parking in this context because it is an automated

1077
01:25:00,530 --> 01:25:03,950
car wash facility that has limited number of employees.

1078
01:25:05,030 --> 01:25:06,610
I think they meet the requirements.

1079
01:25:07,070 --> 01:25:12,230
There are members of the general public who are speaking in the gallery during the presentation.

1080
01:25:12,230 --> 01:25:16,450
Please stop. You'll have your chance to come up and make your points, but it's a little bit distracting.

1081
01:25:16,810 --> 01:25:29,050
So, what I would say to your question is that any business that's open to the public has a parking lot of spaces and most of them don't have a separate employee parking only section.

1082
01:25:29,490 --> 01:25:40,210
So, every business is going to have some of its parking lot dedicated to employees, boss. The only difference with these is that those also have the ability to be a vacuum spot.

1083
01:25:40,210 --> 01:25:44,350
that is the only difference. I don't think that makes it less of a parking spot,

1084
01:25:44,590 --> 01:25:50,350
makes it a more usable parking spot for multiple uses, but it's still the same principle.

1085
01:25:50,770 --> 01:25:55,050
A portion of your parking structure is going to be taken up by employees.

1086
01:25:56,750 --> 01:26:01,810
What happens when that needs that spot needs to be used as a vacuum?

1087
01:26:03,030 --> 01:26:04,430
And again, I think that's what...

1088
01:26:04,430 --> 01:26:07,370
Just the employee move his car to his or her car to.

1089
01:26:08,150 --> 01:26:19,890
I believe that's what Mr. Quintana can speak to operationally. They're not operating with kind of a deficit of those vacuum spots, but he can speak to that.

1090
01:26:20,410 --> 01:26:24,750
And it's a reasonable question. I'm not trying to downplay this question at all.

1091
01:26:24,750 --> 01:26:31,650
It doesn't matter if it's employee or guests, there's usually designated on-street or

1092
01:26:31,650 --> 01:26:37,790
there's designated parking spaces, so that's our concern that there's no designated parking.

1093
01:26:38,710 --> 01:26:44,690
It's serving a dual function, but at peak hour, what happens?

1094
01:26:46,650 --> 01:26:54,650
Again, there's also a refractory time when certain people come to replace the other people.

1095
01:26:54,650 --> 01:26:59,110
when they're getting off, said there's going to be two cars for a while while they're handing off their duties.

1096
01:27:04,060 --> 01:27:04,740
I didn't mean to.

1097
01:27:04,860 --> 01:27:06,020
No, no, it's totally fine.

1098
01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:08,840
Please jump in anytime you have a question.

1099
01:27:10,860 --> 01:27:14,300
So this is a question again that we can go into in more detail.

1100
01:27:15,380 --> 01:27:20,700
We are aware that there are folks here tonight and folks that have written this city with concerns.

1101
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:26,120
I will note that there are many of the concerns that we have read

1102
01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:29,160
from the neighbors that do related

1103
01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:30,660
does seem that there is a real problem

1104
01:27:30,660 --> 01:27:32,100
with cut-through traffic in the neighborhood.

1105
01:27:32,740 --> 01:27:34,980
And not to similar from the discussion

1106
01:27:34,980 --> 01:27:37,300
that you had in your first item,

1107
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:39,720
that is not necessarily something

1108
01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:44,080
that the applicant has the obligation to make better.

1109
01:27:44,120 --> 01:27:45,880
Certainly they have the obligation

1110
01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:48,600
of not exacerbating the problem,

1111
01:27:51,100 --> 01:27:54,160
but the broader concern is one of,

1112
01:27:54,420 --> 01:27:55,700
that the city has to deal with.

1113
01:27:55,700 --> 01:28:05,100
When a park is a popular place to be, and this is a Loma is a busy street, and there is a problem that residents have with cut through traffic.

1114
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:05,920
Yes, sir.

1115
01:28:06,060 --> 01:28:07,700
I'm going to jump in here for a second, sir.

1116
01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:09,380
You're talking about traffic.

1117
01:28:10,180 --> 01:28:13,960
Now, traffic studies were done for this project, is that correct?

1118
01:28:14,020 --> 01:28:15,020
That's correct.

1119
01:28:15,340 --> 01:28:25,080
Were any of those traffic studies address any of the traffic issues on this neighborhood as opposed to the other locations of this company?

1120
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:34,380
How do you mean, what I mean is, is that in the traffic studies that I saw, they were looking

1121
01:28:34,380 --> 01:28:41,600
at the locations in Highly of Florida and South Miami, Burbroan, 69th, which is a two-and-a-half

1122
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:50,060
two miles from the high school I went to, Cork Ables High School, and they were doing traffic

1123
01:28:50,060 --> 01:28:58,200
accounts to those locations and then trying to do an addition and subtraction as far as

1124
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:03,200
what the traffic was going to be at this location. But my concern was that this location

1125
01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:08,520
has a particular issue with cut-through traffic and a residential neighborhood that backs

1126
01:29:08,520 --> 01:29:14,560
right up to it that none of those locations have. And the traffic study didn't really address

1127
01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:20,300
what the traffic was in this location, which is where it's going to be built.

1128
01:29:20,820 --> 01:29:25,460
That was a concern I had. So I'm asking you, don't you think there needs to be a traffic

1129
01:29:25,460 --> 01:29:31,400
study addressing this location of the current issue and how that issue may be exacerbated

1130
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:39,780
or not depending on what this property is going to bring to that location, that this business.

1131
01:29:40,300 --> 01:29:43,160
And it doesn't, as far as I can see, I didn't see one.

1132
01:29:44,080 --> 01:29:49,660
If you did, there is, you know, tell me, correct me, but my concern is that there wasn't

1133
01:29:49,660 --> 01:29:56,420
a traffic study that was done that addresses this property in this location and the traffic

1134
01:29:56,420 --> 01:29:58,080
concerns there.

1135
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:07,540
I understand your question entirely. I don't believe that the city staff accepted the traffic study that we submitted.

1136
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:11,340
And we're not to stay off. I'll ask a few of the questions on that.

1137
01:30:11,440 --> 01:30:12,180
That's fair.

1138
01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:16,080
So the answer is no.

1139
01:30:16,360 --> 01:30:20,380
The answer is no. Not at this stage, not at the conditional use permit stage.

1140
01:30:22,980 --> 01:30:25,620
So again, back to the concerns.

1141
01:30:25,620 --> 01:30:32,040
And that is, the concerns are the reason why we, and I encourage you as we're discussing

1142
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:38,620
these things, don't feel as if the applicant doesn't have any room to listen to your

1143
01:30:38,620 --> 01:30:43,000
concerns and incorporate them into approval conditions.

1144
01:30:43,340 --> 01:30:50,040
I think I don't know that we've said no to one of city staff's requests yet, and many

1145
01:30:50,040 --> 01:30:53,740
of these have come above what the code would require.

1146
01:30:54,360 --> 01:30:58,260
And that's another point that I would make about this company, L. Car Wash.

1147
01:30:58,420 --> 01:31:05,600
What you're looking at is not a prototypical L. Car Wash, as far as I can tell, there is not a prototypical L. Car Wash.

1148
01:31:05,940 --> 01:31:15,820
This is designed to custom forward this property and to address the interactions we've had with staff and the concerns they have related to.

1149
01:31:15,820 --> 01:31:18,720
buffering, landscaping, tree preservation,

1150
01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:23,900
and we want to bring that same attention to your concerns

1151
01:31:24,480 --> 01:31:30,160
and any comments that you have tonight. So don't feel as if this is simply what we're

1152
01:31:30,160 --> 01:31:35,100
proposing and there's no room to work. That's what this, you know, applicant is willing to do

1153
01:31:35,100 --> 01:31:37,980
that we're happy to work with the on these issues.

1154
01:31:40,660 --> 01:31:43,260
I want to briefly touch on some of the

1155
01:31:43,260 --> 01:31:49,500
conditional use permit criteria because that's something that is not, was not as emphasized in

1156
01:31:49,500 --> 01:31:56,000
staff's presentation. One of them says that the conditional use permit has to be consistent with

1157
01:31:56,000 --> 01:32:02,540
the goals of the comprehensive plan. Again, I'll go back to the existing condition.

1158
01:32:05,820 --> 01:32:12,240
There's a reason why every comprehensive plan that's passed for cities and counties has an element

1159
01:32:12,240 --> 01:32:15,100
to it that encourages infill development.

1160
01:32:15,240 --> 01:32:18,400
Infill development means you're taking in underutilized

1161
01:32:18,400 --> 01:32:20,920
or vacant property and you're redeveloping it.

1162
01:32:21,360 --> 01:32:26,440
This one in particular has two structures that are vacant.

1163
01:32:28,060 --> 01:32:30,920
And nothing is a more attractive nuisance

1164
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:34,880
than a vacant commercial structure, especially at night

1165
01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:35,900
when it gets dark.

1166
01:32:35,960 --> 01:32:39,700
So the opportunity to redevelop it as a use

1167
01:32:39,700 --> 01:32:51,320
that could serve the residents in nearby area is certainly one that's consistent with that goal from your comprehensive plan.

1168
01:32:52,600 --> 01:33:00,600
The second criteria I'll talk about is that it meets her exceeds the minimum standards in your land development code.

1169
01:33:00,600 --> 01:33:06,220
this certainly does, those conditions that Nick went through many of those are not required

1170
01:33:06,220 --> 01:33:07,040
by your code.

1171
01:33:07,260 --> 01:33:10,880
They're simply, and if they're usually, if they're required, they don't have to be listed

1172
01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:11,460
as conditions.

1173
01:33:12,500 --> 01:33:14,120
They are over and above.

1174
01:33:16,860 --> 01:33:24,940
The use type operating hours traffic impact commensurate with the area, this is a C3 zoning

1175
01:33:24,940 --> 01:33:25,640
district.

1176
01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:26,940
This is in the commercial core.

1177
01:33:26,940 --> 01:33:30,760
or as you know, this is an intensely developed area.

1178
01:33:33,020 --> 01:33:39,900
And I could go through more of these, but I think that you understand what our argument is,

1179
01:33:40,140 --> 01:33:42,660
what our cases for redevelopment of this property.

1180
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:52,100
I know that you have specific questions about the employee parking and the landscaping materials

1181
01:33:52,100 --> 01:33:53,420
and the height of the building.

1182
01:33:53,420 --> 01:34:00,420
I'm going to go ahead and call up Mr. Alex Quintana to address those of which he can speak to now.

1183
01:34:01,220 --> 01:34:05,480
I'm happy to answer any other questions you have as we continue to talk.

1184
01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:06,660
Thank you.

1185
01:34:10,180 --> 01:34:11,500
Good evening, Alex Quintana.

1186
01:34:12,040 --> 01:34:18,940
Senior Director of Development, L. Car Wash, 253, Northwest 87th Avenue, Darrell Ford, 33172.

1187
01:34:20,340 --> 01:34:20,860
Not sure.

1188
01:34:22,060 --> 01:34:22,840
Here we go.

1189
01:34:23,500 --> 01:34:29,220
Okay, so I was taking some notes, so the first one is the employee parking, as you guys

1190
01:34:29,220 --> 01:34:35,340
have mentioned, we do operate upwards of 95 sites across our two markets right now between

1191
01:34:35,340 --> 01:34:36,620
Michigan and Florida.

1192
01:34:37,120 --> 01:34:42,540
What we try to develop our sites is to maximize what we consider our vacuums, which are

1193
01:34:42,540 --> 01:34:44,820
complementary to the purchase of a car wash.

1194
01:34:46,440 --> 01:34:51,880
At any given moment, we're going to have a maximum of two to three employees on shift that

1195
01:34:51,880 --> 01:34:58,180
give a moment. So we understand that at those shift changes per se, we could have a potential

1196
01:34:58,180 --> 01:35:04,520
of five cars. It's kind of one of those things that our crews are our staff works out

1197
01:35:04,520 --> 01:35:10,940
together. What we were proposing was, if it is a rainier day or gloomier day or towards the end

1198
01:35:10,940 --> 01:35:21,720
of a day, where we kind of see those seasonal down shifts, we will reduce the staffing of just

1199
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:28,240
in line. So what we're kind of our proposing is we do understand that, you know, these flex

1200
01:35:28,240 --> 01:35:33,240
faces, but they're not going to be taking up, per se, the prime ones, which would be kind

1201
01:35:33,240 --> 01:35:40,020
of to the right of the ADA space, where we would be having them as more down towards the

1202
01:35:40,020 --> 01:35:45,660
pastation area. Those two to three spots right there, where we would kind of direct them to

1203
01:35:45,660 --> 01:35:50,880
there. Just to kind of mention also we do have numerous sites down in South Florida that

1204
01:35:50,880 --> 01:35:58,680
do significant volume upwards of 1,000 cars a day, 1,000 plus a day, which we're not predicting that this site would be doing.

1205
01:36:00,640 --> 01:36:05,860
And we have less vacuum spaces where the employees are doing that.

1206
01:36:06,080 --> 01:36:09,760
So we do have the three primary positions are the pay station.

1207
01:36:09,980 --> 01:36:13,240
We will always have an employee there to keep people flowing.

1208
01:36:13,580 --> 01:36:19,080
We'll have a lot of tendon where someone is monitoring the lot, making sure people aren't playing music too loudly.

1209
01:36:19,080 --> 01:36:27,360
And that they're also using the Vax and a respectable manner of timing, not sitting there for 30 plus minutes detailing their car, we try to ask.

1210
01:36:27,780 --> 01:36:35,300
We've started instituting signs at each vacuum stall that says, be courteous to your other members that keep it to 10 to 15 minutes.

1211
01:36:36,080 --> 01:36:44,460
If not, and we also realize that keeping stock of towels and any other products kind of expedites that timing.

1212
01:36:44,460 --> 01:36:52,160
So I think that right now we're anywhere down towards like seven to eight minutes where most people are detailing their car detailing and getting in and out of there

1213
01:36:53,280 --> 01:36:59,760
Another one is hours. You asked I'm not sure which member asked, but when is the last customer?

1214
01:37:00,640 --> 01:37:04,500
We usually will not turn away someone that's in queue at 8 p.m.

1215
01:37:05,060 --> 01:37:12,440
But we will kindly ask them to kind of we will put out cones at the entry point of that queue right there where that last car shown on this plan

1216
01:37:12,440 --> 01:37:19,940
We'll move cones out there kind of decks as an APA. It's shutting down time at APM or we can adjust to 7.45

1217
01:37:19,940 --> 01:37:24,440
If you guys wanted to give a 15-minute warning, we'd be willing to bait adapts to that condition.

1218
01:37:25,740 --> 01:37:29,980
Afterwards, all the equipment will be shut off. They'll probably be an out.

1219
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:44,460
Or ish of maintenance inside the tunnel? No loud equipment will be going on, it's mainly just kind of pressure washing inside the tunnel. Just to clean up for the day and then the employees will be out of there, lighting will go down to a minimum and stay within the city standards.

1220
01:37:46,320 --> 01:37:53,860
Another one was the sound, so let me book you on to some extra slides here in a second.

1221
01:37:54,960 --> 01:37:58,060
Okay, so here's a good representation.

1222
01:37:58,860 --> 01:38:01,560
I'll try to put the decibel scale on there because I know decibels.

1223
01:38:02,120 --> 01:38:05,720
We all learned about it in seventh grade physical science and then we forget about it.

1224
01:38:06,000 --> 01:38:08,720
But just decibels right now me speaking.

1225
01:38:09,340 --> 01:38:13,220
We're setting around 70 decibels more than likely over this microphone.

1226
01:38:13,220 --> 01:38:21,780
So, this is the bottom chart, is taking from one of our most recent sound studies that was done for a project in Del Rey Beach.

1227
01:38:22,200 --> 01:38:31,580
I can also provide a study that we had recently done for a project in Melbourne, off North Wickham that was approved at the end of last year.

1228
01:38:32,160 --> 01:38:40,040
But as you can see, they take the sound from various points around the site and as you at various distances.

1229
01:38:40,040 --> 01:38:46,060
and as you can see the sound dissipates and this is without any solid walls as we've all

1230
01:38:46,060 --> 01:38:52,500
learned in this car wash industry solid wall stop sound better than any other thing possible.

1231
01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:59,240
So that is a 3D rendering of our vacuum enclosures. It's a 8-foot CMU block construction.

1232
01:39:00,760 --> 01:39:06,520
On three sides with a metal gate on the opening so the employees can get in there or maintenance

1233
01:39:06,520 --> 01:39:08,960
crew can get in there and service the equipment as needed.

1234
01:39:09,800 --> 01:39:14,060
It's open to the air just to keep air flowing through it to prevent overheating.

1235
01:39:15,280 --> 01:39:19,640
And so what we've realized is that sound reverberating and then being projected upwards

1236
01:39:19,640 --> 01:39:27,460
or outward really helps and then also I just want to accentuate that also we have that

1237
01:39:27,460 --> 01:39:31,760
solid wall on the back end of the property, don't know if we.

1238
01:39:31,820 --> 01:39:35,800
Yeah, you can see it there on that northern part that will help also dissipate the

1239
01:39:37,800 --> 01:39:49,440
another one that you guys mentioned was the Tower height. As Mr. Love went over the current

1240
01:39:49,440 --> 01:39:54,900
conditions, we do have that monument. There's that existing Pylon slash monument sign

1241
01:39:54,900 --> 01:40:01,060
with the building out there in our initial meetings in our tack review with staff. We kind

1242
01:40:01,060 --> 01:40:07,620
I conceded or we compromised, I guess, in that sense that we would not be going for a monument

1243
01:40:07,620 --> 01:40:08,560
sign there.

1244
01:40:08,780 --> 01:40:13,700
In the sense that we could get our tower at that 35-foot height and then actually it's creating

1245
01:40:13,700 --> 01:40:14,560
a better visibility.

1246
01:40:14,640 --> 01:40:20,040
I know that we've provided site triangles to staff inside of our packet that Mr. Draper can

1247
01:40:20,040 --> 01:40:21,220
go over if needed.

1248
01:40:22,200 --> 01:40:27,440
And then also, I know that there are some concerns about traffic, sorry, going around direction

1249
01:40:27,440 --> 01:40:27,940
here.

1250
01:40:27,940 --> 01:40:33,540
Um, we did have our, uh, legacy, uh, traffic consultant, they've been with, uh, L.

1251
01:40:33,640 --> 01:40:34,840
Car Wash and stay one.

1252
01:40:34,940 --> 01:40:38,940
They're based out of medley for the, uh, HBC engineering, uh, Dr.

1253
01:40:39,560 --> 01:40:42,500
Modet's, uh, side, uh, for conducted this report.

1254
01:40:42,500 --> 01:40:47,780
And as you can see, on the top of that top table, it does take into account the traffic

1255
01:40:47,780 --> 01:40:51,520
counts at the proposed site of 416 land or road.

1256
01:40:52,060 --> 01:40:57,480
Um, and then compares it to our bird road, our F, I, I, you, West Miami and our coral

1257
01:40:57,480 --> 01:41:03,080
of reef sites. These are our most mature sites in our repertoire. These are the sites. I know

1258
01:41:03,080 --> 01:41:08,500
that it is down in Miami, but these are sites that have less vacuum, shorter tunnels,

1259
01:41:09,380 --> 01:41:17,160
and do thousand plus cars a day that don't have any major issues. They run cars through

1260
01:41:17,160 --> 01:41:27,460
there constantly. And, you know, that's where our model was perfected and brought up, you know,

1261
01:41:27,460 --> 01:41:34,320
it meets ITE standards. And as you can see on the lower table, they kind of compare it to

1262
01:41:34,320 --> 01:41:39,980
serrigate sites where what we've noticed is a lot of our traffic is passed by traffic. So

1263
01:41:39,980 --> 01:41:45,680
it's not a destination location like our restaurant or grocery store. We try to incorporate

1264
01:41:45,680 --> 01:41:51,840
our locations into everyday life where you're going from one place and then you know stop

1265
01:41:51,840 --> 01:41:56,240
another. Yes sir. What's the well time service big for time the

1266
01:41:56,240 --> 01:42:00,300
end or until the time they may leave at the right now at our

1267
01:42:00,300 --> 01:42:04,040
drought. Yeah right now at our drought HQ location we've actually

1268
01:42:04,040 --> 01:42:08,880
integrated into an AI camera system that has been logging in you know cars

1269
01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:12,700
as they enter our property to when they leave the property based on some

1270
01:42:12,700 --> 01:42:16,220
initial readings what we're finding is right around I think the average is

1271
01:42:16,220 --> 01:42:20,320
right around 12 minutes based on peak times that's actually as you're in the

1272
01:42:20,320 --> 01:42:22,980
you moving through and then going out.

1273
01:42:24,300 --> 01:42:30,880
So as a new detail, and then a new, sorry, I'm going the wrong way.

1274
01:42:32,620 --> 01:42:37,760
And then just to show, we have one more slide here to show that this is just how it integrates

1275
01:42:37,760 --> 01:42:41,960
into your daily traffic, sorry, for the smaller graphics.

1276
01:42:42,260 --> 01:42:47,840
This is actually using a Placer AI data, so it takes cell phone data from existing sites.

1277
01:42:47,840 --> 01:42:56,300
So this is using our golden rod location, and so what it's finding is that, yes, 42%

1278
01:42:56,300 --> 01:43:00,900
of people come from their home, but as you can see, they're going to various locations

1279
01:43:00,900 --> 01:43:03,500
afterwards, whether it be to the Costco nearby.

1280
01:43:04,260 --> 01:43:08,980
So this is one of those locations when we were initially doing the real estate reconnaissance

1281
01:43:08,980 --> 01:43:17,820
was, it's a Sprouts, you know, you're out on your Saturday errands, you're going to the

1282
01:43:17,820 --> 01:43:25,660
found that the market kind of calls for it here is that this winter park location would fill

1283
01:43:25,660 --> 01:43:32,380
in a central gap in between our three existing stores where hopefully it seems like traffic

1284
01:43:32,380 --> 01:43:36,880
is a pretty big concern especially me trying to come up here from South Florida at a rush hour

1285
01:43:36,880 --> 01:43:44,360
traffic time that we would be moving a location closer to some of our core demographic in the

1286
01:43:44,360 --> 01:43:49,660
and core members in the area, and that they would have an easier location to reduce their

1287
01:43:49,660 --> 01:43:50,420
times on the road.

1288
01:43:51,260 --> 01:43:52,880
So, and then...

1289
01:43:53,500 --> 01:43:57,960
What's the distance between the proposed location and the castle burial location?

1290
01:43:58,360 --> 01:44:01,740
I believe right now we're right around five miles.

1291
01:44:02,180 --> 01:44:02,360
Ish?

1292
01:44:02,780 --> 01:44:03,100
Yes.

1293
01:44:04,160 --> 01:44:05,660
And they're completely two different markets.

1294
01:44:05,920 --> 01:44:10,360
I mean, I know that they overlap, but you can faintly see it that kind of the red blue and

1295
01:44:10,360 --> 01:44:13,440
green kind of designates where they're all pulling from.

1296
01:44:13,440 --> 01:44:20,160
And so, what we're hoping that this location will do is equalize and kind of infill right now

1297
01:44:20,160 --> 01:44:25,180
in the sense that it'll be a closer commute and you bring it's closer. Yes, sir.

1298
01:44:25,480 --> 01:44:32,740
Okay. Where exactly is your Castle Berry location? Can you point it out on a?

1299
01:44:32,760 --> 01:44:37,360
Castle Berry is up there in the blue. There's a blue with a white circle.

1300
01:44:37,480 --> 01:44:39,800
Yes, my question is. It's on 436.

1301
01:44:39,800 --> 01:44:41,660
Yeah, does it back up to a neighborhood?

1302
01:44:42,380 --> 01:44:42,560
No.

1303
01:44:43,200 --> 01:44:43,540
Okay.

1304
01:44:44,180 --> 01:44:44,380
All right.

1305
01:44:44,460 --> 01:44:45,580
Your ECF location.

1306
01:44:46,260 --> 01:44:47,560
Does it back up to a neighborhood?

1307
01:44:48,020 --> 01:44:48,260
Listen.

1308
01:44:48,940 --> 01:44:50,180
Your golden rod location.

1309
01:44:50,520 --> 01:44:51,660
Does it back up to a neighborhood?

1310
01:44:52,480 --> 01:44:52,780
No, sir.

1311
01:44:52,860 --> 01:44:57,240
But on the other side, I can name you off multiple locations on the South Miami area

1312
01:44:57,240 --> 01:44:59,780
and across all of our markets that backup into.

1313
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:05,860
Residents. Well, I looked at the five, and it's been a few years. I mean, I did graduate

1314
01:45:05,860 --> 01:45:13,060
high school, but not yesterday from down there. But I know where the bird road location is, and I

1315
01:45:13,060 --> 01:45:18,260
know where the Carl Reef location, 152nd Street. I didn't hang out in Highland, but I looked

1316
01:45:18,260 --> 01:45:26,960
on the map where those two locations are. None of them backed up to any residential. They were

1317
01:45:26,960 --> 01:45:33,660
are on a major thoroughfare, and they don't have the back-street issues that this location

1318
01:45:34,460 --> 01:45:42,780
potentially has. That's my issue is we're dealing with apples and oranges and I understand

1319
01:45:42,780 --> 01:45:49,960
the traffic, so that's why I ask Council about that because that's the big issue that I see right

1320
01:45:49,960 --> 01:45:50,080
here.

1321
01:45:50,340 --> 01:45:55,120
And we heard from staff and all of our meetings and that's where we adjusted our site plan.

1322
01:45:55,120 --> 01:45:59,880
that we adjusted our initial entry point from our pre-application meeting to one

1323
01:45:59,880 --> 01:46:06,490
preserve the oak tree that's on land or right there. The second one was to create a

1324
01:46:07,660 --> 01:46:09,750
extended throat distance into the

1325
01:46:10,700 --> 01:46:17,000
entry of our site down land. I think we're about 400 feet up there. I don't know. I don't

1326
01:46:17,000 --> 01:46:20,760
pull me to it, but I think we're significantly farther off the road than a sprouts.

1327
01:46:20,760 --> 01:46:28,800
So you don't have any of that extent, and then also staff requested that we, you know, make it a left out only.

1328
01:46:29,520 --> 01:46:32,960
We've accentuated that curve, we can accentuate even more.

1329
01:46:33,460 --> 01:46:35,280
We have some directional signage.

1330
01:46:35,960 --> 01:46:39,120
It's a little bit right there.

1331
01:46:39,220 --> 01:46:40,980
You can see it by that white SUV.

1332
01:46:41,660 --> 01:46:48,060
We'll, our 3D rendering, real oriented at the incorrect direction, but we'll turn that so it's forcing those in.

1333
01:46:48,060 --> 01:46:52,960
like we can do all we can to force patrons to go left out of the site.

1334
01:46:56,960 --> 01:47:01,900
So, which I know that, I mean, but, you know, the person wants to take a right.

1335
01:47:02,020 --> 01:47:02,920
They're going to take a right.

1336
01:47:04,080 --> 01:47:07,800
And you can't even get people to walk across a street and winter park on it.

1337
01:47:08,400 --> 01:47:12,640
But what I guess what we're getting at is that we've worked with staff.

1338
01:47:12,800 --> 01:47:17,000
We've done everything we could to force the traffic to the left.

1339
01:47:17,000 --> 01:47:29,700
I know that the sprouts development has a full movement there, so I mean what we've done is we've done our best to accommodate to the staff and that's all we can do for you guys.

1340
01:47:29,840 --> 01:47:37,800
I know it seems like, you know, just as Mr. Love pointed out, first project it seems like it's a citywide issue. We have it down in Miami a lot.

1341
01:47:37,800 --> 01:47:41,760
people love cutting through alleys and access streets and, you know,

1342
01:47:43,180 --> 01:47:44,660
probably the nature of the beast unfortunately.

1343
01:47:44,940 --> 01:47:45,540
Mr. Tick?

1344
01:47:47,420 --> 01:47:54,420
Yeah, you've mentioned you've done noise studies in other sites.

1345
01:47:55,280 --> 01:47:58,160
What triggered those studies and why?

1346
01:47:58,360 --> 01:47:59,580
I've only done here.

1347
01:48:00,000 --> 01:48:03,020
I believe Melburn, so to speak to Melburn,

1348
01:48:03,880 --> 01:48:30,240
They, it was part of their conditional use requirements built into their city code, so when we had their pre-app, they requested it, and we provided it, and then the Delray Beach, same, same issue with the conditional use process, that one's actually borders are residents as well, or a neighborhood right behind us, so we, we did the sound study as they requested at the pre-app meeting.

1349
01:48:31,180 --> 01:48:34,420
Another site that we are doing,

1350
01:48:34,420 --> 01:48:37,420
I'm completely blanking, Miramar Parkway, Miramar 3,

1351
01:48:37,640 --> 01:48:38,820
our third site there.

1352
01:48:39,060 --> 01:48:41,160
It backs up to a residence right now.

1353
01:48:42,500 --> 01:48:44,940
And we provide a sound study for them.

1354
01:48:45,840 --> 01:48:48,860
And we're going into PNZ and June on that project.

1355
01:48:49,900 --> 01:48:50,440
Okay.

1356
01:48:51,260 --> 01:48:54,260
Getting back to the front,

1357
01:48:54,260 --> 01:49:00,900
you know, signage monument, which is, you know, I guess what it is, because you're actual office

1358
01:49:01,680 --> 01:49:09,080
building is like 19 feet, two inches, to the parapets who add on another, you know, one or two feet,

1359
01:49:09,240 --> 01:49:16,800
you know, I guess for the full height of the building, and then you've got another, you know, 14 feet of,

1360
01:49:17,500 --> 01:49:24,240
I guess airspace, you know, to get up to the 35 feet, I just don't, you know, to me that's

1361
01:49:24,260 --> 01:49:28,520
I mean, that's a sign monument, it's not a real structure,

1362
01:49:30,760 --> 01:49:32,680
so it's part of our brand.

1363
01:49:32,860 --> 01:49:39,380
We have it at, I would say probably 85% of our stores have that tower feature, it's, you

1364
01:49:39,380 --> 01:49:46,060
know, we build within city codes and, you know, that's what we presented initially to staff.

1365
01:49:47,040 --> 01:49:52,760
We're willing to compromise some, but I know that we've also compromised and said to staff

1366
01:49:52,760 --> 01:49:58,700
that we weren't going to submit for a monument sign, per se, or a pylon sign, to promote

1367
01:49:58,700 --> 01:49:59,240
signage.

1368
01:49:59,680 --> 01:50:05,820
And so this is our kind of our compromise that we get some height back for advertisement and

1369
01:50:05,820 --> 01:50:06,780
visibility from the road.

1370
01:50:06,940 --> 01:50:11,360
I mean, I know we're built right up against the road, but with a limited signage, it's

1371
01:50:11,360 --> 01:50:13,960
easier to kind of get your signage up.

1372
01:50:24,740 --> 01:50:25,140
Okay.

1373
01:50:25,140 --> 01:50:30,540
I mean, when you're to find a lot, this size down in South Florida, you're paying upwards

1374
01:50:30,540 --> 01:50:31,260
of eight figures.

1375
01:50:32,480 --> 01:50:36,960
So we have a lot more room to work with here and so the longer the tunnel, the more cars

1376
01:50:36,960 --> 01:50:40,480
were able to process and the better wash that were able to give to our customers.

1377
01:50:41,220 --> 01:50:47,260
And so the capacity of this tunnel is five cars versus an 80 foot tunnel where you can

1378
01:50:47,260 --> 01:50:50,420
maybe only fit two cars in there at any given moment.

1379
01:50:50,620 --> 01:50:55,120
So we can process cars through faster, which means less stacking, which means more people

1380
01:50:55,120 --> 01:50:58,520
get into the vacuumed quicker and get off-site quicker.

1381
01:51:01,010 --> 01:51:07,790
Yes, I'm just wondering, have you done a sort of, you had the, the aerial with the

1382
01:51:07,790 --> 01:51:16,090
different locations, and then this location, the, the projected volume of cars that you're

1383
01:51:16,090 --> 01:51:27,190
expecting and then does this size merit that volume is, it's a long building, I guess is what

1384
01:51:27,190 --> 01:51:29,990
I'm getting that. And is it? And when you're saying that you have.

1385
01:51:30,010 --> 01:51:32,730
So right now, uh, sorry to catch you off. Sorry.

1386
01:51:33,090 --> 01:51:40,010
Your car washes in South Florida do a lot of volume, but they're smaller. So why the

1387
01:51:40,010 --> 01:51:44,770
large building footprint, when probably the volume will be less here?

1388
01:51:46,370 --> 01:51:51,430
It's, like I said, it's a, it's a business decision in the sense that we can have a longer

1389
01:51:51,430 --> 01:51:57,110
tunnel, which kind of, it's more touchpoints for the vehicle. What we found also up in central

1390
01:51:57,110 --> 01:52:02,450
footers. We don't have as big of a bug problem down in South Florida as you guys do up here.

1391
01:52:03,070 --> 01:52:07,870
And so we try to have more touch points and longer tunnels up here. So there's a better

1392
01:52:07,870 --> 01:52:12,870
clean on your car. You're not coming out with three-quarter clean car like you see at some

1393
01:52:12,870 --> 01:52:18,170
car washers. If that makes sense. More touch points for these more locations? More touch points

1394
01:52:18,170 --> 01:52:23,310
is inside the tunnel. There's more ability to rinse and soap your car. There's longer,

1395
01:52:23,310 --> 01:52:29,970
Soak time on your vehicle that the soap is on there because the that's getting tuned into the

1396
01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:38,020
Weeds Car Washular is the longer the soaps on the vehicle, the better it is to penetrate smashed

1397
01:52:38,020 --> 01:52:43,680
bugs on your car and get them off easier. But this is based on the golden rod, site which

1398
01:52:43,680 --> 01:52:49,660
opened in July of 2025. And as you can see, our visits have been stayed pretty consistently

1399
01:52:50,600 --> 01:52:58,080
as we've taken over the site. And I know we purchased it recently and rebranded it as of last year

1400
01:52:58,080 --> 01:53:01,900
and it's operating anywhere between four to seven hundred cars per day.

1401
01:53:02,820 --> 01:53:04,900
So that's what we're estimating for this site,

1402
01:53:05,180 --> 01:53:07,280
which can easily handle this volume.

1403
01:53:07,940 --> 01:53:10,000
You're estimating that for this site,

1404
01:53:10,200 --> 01:53:11,640
based on what Golden Rod's doing?

1405
01:53:12,240 --> 01:53:13,560
Yes, sir, because as I mentioned,

1406
01:53:13,700 --> 01:53:17,180
it's that infill location in the sense that

1407
01:53:17,180 --> 01:53:20,740
also this one is it's customers benefit from our network

1408
01:53:20,740 --> 01:53:22,580
and the sense that they use multiple locations

1409
01:53:22,580 --> 01:53:24,680
that are depending on where they are,

1410
01:53:24,880 --> 01:53:26,520
just what side of the city they're on,

1411
01:53:26,520 --> 01:53:29,900
which way their communities for that day, et cetera, et cetera.

1412
01:53:30,640 --> 01:53:35,500
So the ability of adding an extra car wash in this area

1413
01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:40,840
will open up that ability for it to kind of stabilize.

1414
01:53:48,220 --> 01:53:53,280
How do you determine, well, I think you've

1415
01:53:53,280 --> 01:53:57,240
said that based on the unique nature of this site,

1416
01:53:57,320 --> 01:53:59,820
the length of it, you were able to put a longer tunnel in,

1417
01:53:59,820 --> 01:54:07,300
Is that why you have a large number of vacuum stalls that you say you probably won't need or

1418
01:54:07,860 --> 01:54:14,980
Do you make the number do you determine I mean we think I want to say okay to determine the proposed number of vacuum stalls based on what the volume

1419
01:54:14,980 --> 01:54:16,640
You think is going to be at the store

1420
01:54:18,780 --> 01:54:24,680
No because I have I have sites that down in South Florida right now that I'm developing that are only going to have eight vacuums

1421
01:54:24,680 --> 01:54:31,160
And we're projecting that these cars are going to do a thousand cars today. Is that it because you do have enough space on those smaller lots in South Florida?

1422
01:54:31,160 --> 01:54:39,050
Yes, but if I had more space, but at the same time, there is a fine line also because you don't want them to be

1423
01:54:40,300 --> 01:54:44,400
Godian, I don't want to get up here in slander in the other companies but some of the car washes that we inherited

1424
01:54:45,020 --> 01:54:45,480
have

1425
01:54:46,060 --> 01:54:50,320
3040 plus vacuums that when they were operating at a

1426
01:54:50,320 --> 01:54:52,770
400 to a 700 cars per day

1427
01:54:53,420 --> 01:55:01,140
the cycle looked empty at any given moment and an empty business is not a profitable business in our eyes, and so there's a fine line of managing and

1428
01:55:01,160 --> 01:55:06,820
what we landed on with 17 spaces here also because of space constraints and kind of redesigning

1429
01:55:06,820 --> 01:55:10,600
the side I think staff has maybe seen two or three iterations of the site plan and this

1430
01:55:10,600 --> 01:55:15,140
is what we settled on that would be most efficient and also meet all city standards.

1431
01:55:15,800 --> 01:55:18,940
Well, I mean it doesn't need any parking standards because it doesn't have any dedicated

1432
01:55:18,940 --> 01:55:24,560
parking but that is you aside to the sites that you for instance the site you said

1433
01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:29,700
that has eight vacuum stalls of the South Florida. Is there any parking for staff dedicated

1434
01:55:29,700 --> 01:55:32,160
parking on for staff on those properties?

1435
01:55:32,860 --> 01:55:34,480
Those can be a little bit different.

1436
01:55:34,600 --> 01:55:40,720
In the sense that Miami people have mutual agreements with neighboring properties, or shared

1437
01:55:40,720 --> 01:55:46,600
parking agreements in alleyways, but I know that one or two of them we kind of designated

1438
01:55:46,600 --> 01:55:52,560
this space by the dumpster that was kind of unused that was just we created this parking

1439
01:55:52,560 --> 01:55:53,420
space out of it.

1440
01:55:53,500 --> 01:55:56,420
You know, you just get creative with maximizing your space there.

1441
01:55:56,420 --> 01:56:02,460
Right. And if we, I think, was Mr. Keyesons point earlier, which is if all of the things or if all the

1442
01:56:02,460 --> 01:56:06,340
stalls are being used and somebody comes to park their car, maybe it was Mr. Seagull,

1443
01:56:06,680 --> 01:56:10,280
they're just going to find a place they could put the car on that lot, which isn't necessarily

1444
01:56:10,280 --> 01:56:15,920
a parking place. And that wouldn't be that would be the area manager, the regional manager,

1445
01:56:16,120 --> 01:56:22,540
the site managers, responsibility to make sure we have a clear policy in our staff that are in our

1446
01:56:22,540 --> 01:56:27,040
company policies that we don't let them just park on a curb and I understand the

1447
01:56:27,040 --> 01:56:30,560
concern of whatever happened at Golden Rod and you know we can look into that

1448
01:56:30,560 --> 01:56:31,260
from an upside.

1449
01:56:33,800 --> 01:56:36,580
I just want to clarify you had said that you had a South

1450
01:56:36,580 --> 01:56:41,340
Florida location that does 1,000 cars a day. Multiple guests there. Multiple

1451
01:56:41,340 --> 01:56:46,660
look at I can imagine that and then the one you were talking though you referenced

1452
01:56:47,140 --> 01:56:48,920
had eight vacuum stalls.

1453
01:56:49,020 --> 01:56:49,720
Yes, sir.

1454
01:56:49,940 --> 01:56:50,160
Okay.

1455
01:56:51,460 --> 01:56:52,500
This one has what?

1456
01:56:52,860 --> 01:56:53,040
17?

1457
01:56:53,680 --> 01:56:54,020
Yes, sir.

1458
01:56:54,480 --> 01:56:55,880
And is it fair to say?

1459
01:56:55,900 --> 01:56:59,060
And I'm looking at a projection of between four and seven hundred cars a day?

1460
01:56:59,060 --> 01:56:59,980
That's the golden rod.

1461
01:57:00,140 --> 01:57:01,620
But I mean, is that something that you would?

1462
01:57:01,660 --> 01:57:03,660
Do you know how many cars a day would come to this?

1463
01:57:04,880 --> 01:57:08,300
If I had a crystal ball, I'd be a lot more profitable man.

1464
01:57:08,400 --> 01:57:09,020
But yes, sir.

1465
01:57:09,020 --> 01:57:14,220
I mean, based on the data, that's what we can just concurrent right now with the mark our central

1466
01:57:14,220 --> 01:57:16,880
for the market is operating, that's what we're estimating

1467
01:57:16,880 --> 01:57:17,140
that we're talking about.

1468
01:57:17,140 --> 01:57:18,160
Between $700.

1469
01:57:19,260 --> 01:57:19,400
Yes, sir.

1470
01:57:19,400 --> 01:57:22,000
So you got a space before and $700 cars a day

1471
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:25,360
with 17 vacuum stalls when you got another,

1472
01:57:25,360 --> 01:57:28,520
that does 1,000 cars a day with eight vacuum stalls.

1473
01:57:28,660 --> 01:57:31,820
So is there any rhyme or reason to pick that?

1474
01:57:32,040 --> 01:57:32,340
I mean, why?

1475
01:57:33,640 --> 01:57:34,080
One, two, one.

1476
01:57:34,080 --> 01:57:37,540
It's just, you know, not to get to any of the weeds.

1477
01:57:37,740 --> 01:57:39,000
The sites are designed differently.

1478
01:57:39,140 --> 01:57:40,040
You know, I know the highly,

1479
01:57:40,340 --> 01:57:42,300
the site that you mentioned, the old one.

1480
01:57:42,460 --> 01:57:44,080
That one was a back first concept.

1481
01:57:44,080 --> 01:57:47,600
So you have people actually vacuuming in the queueing.

1482
01:57:47,700 --> 01:57:53,080
I mean, I'm just trying to find out if there's any, if there's any relationship

1483
01:57:53,080 --> 01:57:56,880
between a number of vacuum sites and the number of projected cars per day.

1484
01:57:58,040 --> 01:58:03,400
And I'm not seeing it, but I think I can say, I mean, I could, I could develop a site.

1485
01:58:03,480 --> 01:58:07,580
You know, there's one of our rock-wood sites has, I think, 54 vacuumes on it,

1486
01:58:07,920 --> 01:58:12,420
and probably at most 10 are used at any given moment.

1487
01:58:12,420 --> 01:58:14,580
Is that on North Morrell Road?

1488
01:58:15,100 --> 01:58:15,740
Near Eister?

1489
01:58:16,660 --> 01:58:17,520
I believe so.

1490
01:58:17,700 --> 01:58:18,240
Yeah, the Rockwich.

1491
01:58:18,660 --> 01:58:22,380
I mean, I think it's just, you've maxed out to sight.

1492
01:58:22,660 --> 01:58:25,260
We maxed out to sight. We prepared for the worst conditions.

1493
01:58:25,260 --> 01:58:31,600
We would rather have, I would rather have 17 vacuums or 14 operational because two employees

1494
01:58:31,600 --> 01:58:33,240
or three employees are part there then.

1495
01:58:33,240 --> 01:58:36,660
And thinking, you didn't have to max out to sight.

1496
01:58:36,740 --> 01:58:40,660
You just made it smaller and then maybe created a greater buffer from the residential.

1497
01:58:42,400 --> 01:58:50,880
So, you know, there's at the same time I also don't want to impede the residents and be respectful of them and don't ever want our site to

1498
01:58:51,300 --> 01:58:59,260
stack out onto the road if someone, if we were to only reduce down to a certain number of vacuums and the site is occupied at that given.

1499
01:58:59,260 --> 01:59:01,240
back to the combat, you know,

1500
01:59:01,340 --> 01:59:05,600
but you're projecting maybe 400 to 700 visits a day.

1501
01:59:05,740 --> 01:59:08,880
It doesn't sound like that merits 17 vacuum stalls.

1502
01:59:11,300 --> 01:59:13,560
Anyway, back to the tower.

1503
01:59:14,740 --> 01:59:18,980
What are you all willing to do in terms of reducing the size of the tower?

1504
01:59:20,900 --> 01:59:24,200
You said you might be willing to compromise or...

1505
01:59:24,200 --> 01:59:27,520
I mean, I was kind of just looking at Google Street View

1506
01:59:27,520 --> 01:59:29,440
to see kind of surrounding businesses.

1507
01:59:29,440 --> 01:59:34,020
I know there's a three story office building kind of across the street ish and then I know that

1508
01:59:34,020 --> 01:59:40,520
this sprouts is set further off the road, but you know, mellow mushroom has a pylon sign out by the road.

1509
01:59:42,120 --> 01:59:44,440
Does that mean the answer to your question is you're not willing to?

1510
01:59:44,560 --> 01:59:50,080
No, I am willing to. I'm just trying to give, I'm just trying to give a reason of why we presented to staff and

1511
01:59:50,080 --> 01:59:58,840
we're at 10 feet, you're at 10 feet, and they're not at 10 feet. So, you're right at the edge of the right away.

1512
01:59:58,840 --> 01:59:59,980
What would be a cup of

1513
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:10,800
Dr. Will Hype for you guys, and I can take that up to our higher levels to make a business decision on it, but I think right tonight I would be authorized to say that we'd be willing to look into it.

1514
02:00:11,040 --> 02:00:21,940
Yeah, and because this is a recommending body, you can make a recommendation to city council with a specific number and we can take that to the final decision.

1515
02:00:22,660 --> 02:00:33,200
So I think to Alex's point, I encourage you to discuss internally and suggest a number because this is a recommending body.

1516
02:00:35,570 --> 02:00:36,950
Any other questions for the applicant?

1517
02:00:40,830 --> 02:00:41,190
Thank you.

1518
02:00:42,090 --> 02:00:44,310
Could I briefly just make one clarifying question.

1519
02:00:44,730 --> 02:00:47,350
I just want to ask staff or maybe a Dan.

1520
02:00:47,890 --> 02:00:54,230
Because the question of parking has come up now a few times that I just want to make sure that we're clear on the record,

1521
02:00:54,230 --> 02:00:57,450
whether the city considers these to be parking spaces.

1522
02:01:00,880 --> 02:01:04,920
So we don't have a requirement for parking spaces for a car wash.

1523
02:01:05,740 --> 02:01:09,400
All we have is retail operations,

1524
02:01:09,720 --> 02:01:13,000
is the closest thing I could say that it would conform to,

1525
02:01:13,020 --> 02:01:14,480
and it's based on the square footage.

1526
02:01:16,630 --> 02:01:18,230
It's not based on the number of employees.

1527
02:01:18,670 --> 02:01:20,910
No, we don't have that requirement in the code.

1528
02:01:22,670 --> 02:01:29,850
Obviously, this move forward for approval so you aren't really concerned about the parking

1529
02:01:29,850 --> 02:01:30,310
issue.

1530
02:01:33,090 --> 02:01:34,190
I'm not going to answer your question.

1531
02:01:34,530 --> 02:01:36,330
I'm piggybacked in the last question.

1532
02:01:37,010 --> 02:01:42,350
Even though there may not be a minimum parking requirement as I also said for this type of

1533
02:01:42,350 --> 02:01:49,430
use, the factors that you consider in a traditional use of approval do factor in parking

1534
02:01:49,430 --> 02:01:52,890
is one of the things that the board does review.

1535
02:01:53,630 --> 02:01:56,790
So it's the one in the purview of the board to consider that issue.

1536
02:01:57,030 --> 02:01:57,330
Absolutely.

1537
02:01:57,330 --> 02:01:57,630
And absolutely.

1538
02:01:57,850 --> 02:02:04,250
I think it's in a requirement because of the city code, and this is not retail, then why is there a handicap space there?

1539
02:02:04,530 --> 02:02:04,830
I just...

1540
02:02:04,830 --> 02:02:06,170
That's a building code requirement.

1541
02:02:07,450 --> 02:02:09,590
It just isn't making sense to me.

1542
02:02:10,590 --> 02:02:17,170
What I'm hearing is we've just maximized the lot, and we're going to put as many vacuums on this as we can.

1543
02:02:17,170 --> 02:02:20,230
And we'll park some people there and get away with it,

1544
02:02:20,250 --> 02:02:21,530
but there's not dedicated parking.

1545
02:02:22,810 --> 02:02:24,810
And we'd really like to use them all to have vacuums

1546
02:02:24,810 --> 02:02:26,050
because we want to bring as many cars

1547
02:02:26,050 --> 02:02:27,230
through this things we can't.

1548
02:02:27,510 --> 02:02:29,930
That's what it says to me.

1549
02:02:30,010 --> 02:02:32,610
I'm sorry, this is really more close session commentary,

1550
02:02:32,930 --> 02:02:34,510
but are there any other questions for the applicant?

1551
02:02:36,940 --> 02:02:37,500
Thank you.

1552
02:02:37,620 --> 02:02:38,380
Thank you.

1553
02:02:41,760 --> 02:02:45,620
Sorry, I was just getting a text message from our senior VP

1554
02:02:45,620 --> 02:02:46,840
of development and construction.

1555
02:02:46,980 --> 02:02:48,920
We are willing to compromise a couple of spots,

1556
02:02:48,920 --> 02:02:52,760
just to be solely dedicated to employees and not backing them there.

1557
02:02:53,260 --> 02:02:53,920
So, yeah.

1558
02:02:55,020 --> 02:02:57,780
Do we have members of the public who wish to speak?

1559
02:02:58,940 --> 02:03:02,100
Chairman, I have two requests, but one may have left.

1560
02:03:02,900 --> 02:03:04,460
The first one is Julia Gettinger.

1561
02:03:05,380 --> 02:03:09,220
I saw a number of people in the audience raise their hands.

1562
02:03:09,320 --> 02:03:13,340
If you would like to speak, can you please go back and fill out one of the forms?

1563
02:03:13,560 --> 02:03:16,540
So we have your name so we can call you up in orderly fashion.

1564
02:03:16,540 --> 02:03:19,180
Thank you very much,

1565
02:03:22,350 --> 02:03:26,110
and the first speaker again is that you, ma'am.

1566
02:03:27,450 --> 02:03:31,470
As a reminder, if you could start by stating your name and address for the record.

1567
02:03:37,580 --> 02:03:38,780
Hello, I'm Julia Guessinger.

1568
02:03:38,940 --> 02:03:41,220
I'm a resident of the East Gate neighborhood.

1569
02:03:42,200 --> 02:03:45,800
My address is 106 bell place in winter park.

1570
02:03:47,180 --> 02:03:49,400
And I'm a resident of the neighborhood.

1571
02:03:49,400 --> 02:03:52,100
been there for many years.

1572
02:03:52,820 --> 02:03:54,540
Love our winter park neighborhood.

1573
02:03:55,700 --> 02:04:00,800
And I'm very concerned that there's another car wash going there.

1574
02:04:01,080 --> 02:04:04,700
The old car wash is dilapidated, I can see that.

1575
02:04:05,360 --> 02:04:08,200
And surely would be nice to have something new there.

1576
02:04:08,940 --> 02:04:12,460
But I don't think a car wash would be a good addition

1577
02:04:12,460 --> 02:04:14,380
for the winter park community.

1578
02:04:15,140 --> 02:04:17,660
There's so many car washers already in the area.

1579
02:04:21,340 --> 02:04:26,300
And several of my main concerns are, of course, the traffic, like we already discussed.

1580
02:04:27,080 --> 02:04:29,840
This already is a very tricky neighborhood.

1581
02:04:30,980 --> 02:04:35,760
We have animals and kids, and there's a lot of cut-through traffic to avoid the light

1582
02:04:35,760 --> 02:04:37,380
between Aloma and Lakemont.

1583
02:04:38,400 --> 02:04:46,800
So the neighborhood is already very heavily used for cut-through traffic, and I think cars going

1584
02:04:46,800 --> 02:04:49,060
with a car wash are just going to make it worse.

1585
02:04:49,340 --> 02:04:51,300
It doesn't matter if they only can turn left,

1586
02:04:51,820 --> 02:04:56,640
that's only going to make the exit from land

1587
02:04:56,640 --> 02:04:58,500
or onto Aloma much worse.

1588
02:04:58,520 --> 02:05:02,600
It's already terrible because of the sprouts location.

1589
02:05:04,160 --> 02:05:06,900
Sprouts also is very noisy in the middle of the night.

1590
02:05:07,280 --> 02:05:10,080
The unpack their groceries.

1591
02:05:11,040 --> 02:05:12,980
We have a very much noise problem,

1592
02:05:13,280 --> 02:05:16,640
even though there is a wall between the neighborhood

1593
02:05:16,640 --> 02:05:23,160
and the shopping plaza. And if we now have to deal with a car wash that has up to 70

1594
02:05:23,160 --> 02:05:31,260
even if it's just eight vacuum's. I don't think the noise study was considering all of those

1595
02:05:31,260 --> 02:05:38,840
aids running at the same time. I saw that it shows one edit time, but I don't think they have

1596
02:05:38,840 --> 02:05:44,420
noise study that will tell you how loud it will be.

1597
02:05:44,700 --> 02:05:49,360
Just go to any of the car washes, like on four sites, and Aloma, there's one.

1598
02:05:49,680 --> 02:05:50,320
It's very noisy.

1599
02:05:51,140 --> 02:05:55,420
Also, the runoff, I'm very concerned about chemicals being sprayed,

1600
02:05:55,940 --> 02:05:58,440
chemicals being going into our groundwater.

1601
02:05:59,040 --> 02:06:03,180
We have a female urban farm in our neighborhood.

1602
02:06:03,520 --> 02:06:05,560
I'm part of that initiative.

1603
02:06:05,560 --> 02:06:09,340
and I want no chemicals in the vicinity.

1604
02:06:11,020 --> 02:06:18,560
The other thing was, oh yes, is there an emissions test done?

1605
02:06:18,920 --> 02:06:22,560
Because if people are in the line, constantly their cars are running,

1606
02:06:23,040 --> 02:06:28,920
there should be some sort of a pollution emissions test for the cars running.

1607
02:06:29,460 --> 02:06:34,700
I don't think we should in this area have any sort of drive-through traffic.

1608
02:06:34,700 --> 02:06:42,220
If you want to build a office or a doctor's office or something like that, that's, you know,

1609
02:06:42,460 --> 02:06:47,480
it's not going to show heavily impact the neighborhood that's behind it.

1610
02:06:47,600 --> 02:06:49,580
Thank you very much for your consideration.

1611
02:06:50,260 --> 02:06:51,520
Next is Jenna Four.

1612
02:06:55,690 --> 02:06:56,870
Thank you everyone for filling those out.

1613
02:06:56,890 --> 02:07:00,110
It makes us much easier than me picking people from the audience.

1614
02:07:01,570 --> 02:07:02,130
Hi, my name.

1615
02:07:02,410 --> 02:07:02,710
Oh, sorry.

1616
02:07:03,210 --> 02:07:03,770
No, we can do that.

1617
02:07:03,770 --> 02:07:04,950
I'm at the better for us, yeah.

1618
02:07:05,310 --> 02:07:11,530
My name is Jennifer. I live at one one eight bill place. I am the owner operator of the small urban farm there.

1619
02:07:11,530 --> 02:07:15,090
It is midmodder bin farm. I am licensed through the city.

1620
02:07:15,710 --> 02:07:21,790
So everything that I'm doing is legal. It's an organic farm. I am also very concerned about chemical spray,

1621
02:07:22,030 --> 02:07:29,970
the water runoff, the ground pollution. I also have a four and five-year-old children who it is already, like nerve-wracking to let.

1622
02:07:30,000 --> 02:07:59,980
Then, play in the front yard in any way, shape or form. Because of the traffic, I know everyone's talking about the cut through traffic, through the neighborhood. But like Julia said, my concern is more of the traffic turning out. It is a nightmare to turn on to a Loma from lander. There are so many near misses all the time. It's awful. So, I'm also, I have a petition that the neighbors and I put together. This is the signature of every state.

1623
02:08:00,000 --> 02:08:04,680
single person that lives on lander and bell place and the majority of the people that live

1624
02:08:04,680 --> 02:08:09,980
on Byron and I also have people from Glenarton as well, none of them want the car wash

1625
02:08:09,980 --> 02:08:10,400
there.

1626
02:08:10,860 --> 02:08:15,840
So this is literally went door to door and got every one of our neighbors to sign.

1627
02:08:16,380 --> 02:08:18,020
They don't want it.

1628
02:08:18,160 --> 02:08:23,100
Brett also has an online one that I'll let him talk about that people signed as well.

1629
02:08:24,100 --> 02:08:26,160
It's also not enriching our community.

1630
02:08:26,160 --> 02:08:29,260
If they're only having two to three employees,

1631
02:08:29,520 --> 02:08:31,880
it's not like it's creating jobs for anyone.

1632
02:08:31,900 --> 02:08:35,120
It's not a third space for people to go to

1633
02:08:35,120 --> 02:08:36,980
and no offense to El Car Wash.

1634
02:08:37,260 --> 02:08:41,980
It's ugly, so sorry, the other thing is,

1635
02:08:42,200 --> 02:08:45,040
is there's a bunch, it is, it's an isor.

1636
02:08:46,020 --> 02:08:49,440
And there's also caliber car wash is 2.3 miles away.

1637
02:08:49,980 --> 02:08:52,620
It's not five miles to the castle, very El Car Wash.

1638
02:08:52,700 --> 02:08:54,120
It's 3.6 miles.

1639
02:08:54,120 --> 02:09:00,480
the golden rod location is 3.1 miles away. There's also a spotless car wash 4.5 miles away

1640
02:09:00,480 --> 02:09:08,720
and a water's car wash 4.8 miles away. I think we're good on car washes. So yeah, so I just think

1641
02:09:08,720 --> 02:09:13,320
it's not creating jobs. It's just making money for our car wash. It's, and like Julie said,

1642
02:09:13,400 --> 02:09:19,500
anything else there, a restaurant, a doctor's office, anything, anything but a car wash. So

1643
02:09:19,500 --> 02:09:24,920
Um, it's also a, like, the echo, the, my kids play outside.

1644
02:09:25,160 --> 02:09:29,160
I'm embarrassed when one of them hurts themselves and starts crying because the way our

1645
02:09:29,160 --> 02:09:30,840
neighborhood is set up, it echoes.

1646
02:09:31,120 --> 02:09:33,400
Like, you can hear it all the way down the street.

1647
02:09:33,580 --> 02:09:38,800
So I can only imagine, like, when a car washes there, what that's going to do also.

1648
02:09:38,980 --> 02:09:44,260
So, and like Julia said, the idling of the cars and just the extra traffic.

1649
02:09:44,260 --> 02:09:46,800
I just don't think that we need it.

1650
02:09:46,800 --> 02:09:49,280
there's so many other car washes around there everywhere.

1651
02:09:50,640 --> 02:09:52,360
So I also just think as the City Commission,

1652
02:09:53,320 --> 02:09:55,740
you guys, we voted you guys in and-

1653
02:09:55,740 --> 02:09:57,280
Not the City Commission, we're planning it so-

1654
02:09:57,280 --> 02:10:00,480
Plating and zoning, but as far as it's like,

1655
02:10:00,520 --> 02:10:02,420
we're the residents and all the residents,

1656
02:10:02,680 --> 02:10:03,420
we don't want it.

1657
02:10:03,560 --> 02:10:06,120
And they're an L car wash from like, not here.

1658
02:10:06,660 --> 02:10:08,960
So, and I just ask, would you guys want this

1659
02:10:08,960 --> 02:10:10,120
backed up to your neighborhood?

1660
02:10:11,600 --> 02:10:12,480
Thank you.

1661
02:10:12,600 --> 02:10:16,480
Thank you.

1662
02:10:16,480 --> 02:10:24,080
staff so that it's in the record? It's up to you, but I think when we get emails from

1663
02:10:24,080 --> 02:10:29,940
residents, it all goes into the record. Otherwise it's just you saying I've got a bunch of

1664
02:10:29,940 --> 02:10:34,600
people signed those? Next is Brett Bissie.

1665
02:10:40,920 --> 02:10:43,460
Hello, thank you for having me. I just read Bissie at

1666
02:10:43,460 --> 02:10:49,740
530 Lander Road about five houses down from the proposed development. I just want to start by

1667
02:10:49,740 --> 02:10:52,700
saying I also have a petition that I did online.

1668
02:10:53,020 --> 02:10:56,300
We have 101 signatures, majority of those are in winter

1669
02:10:56,300 --> 02:10:58,520
park, some of which are in our neighborhood.

1670
02:11:00,460 --> 02:11:02,640
The main point of the petition is the incompatibility

1671
02:11:02,640 --> 02:11:07,780
of this lot with directly bordering a residential lot.

1672
02:11:08,020 --> 02:11:09,540
It's also bordering a minimum mushroom.

1673
02:11:10,080 --> 02:11:12,460
I don't think people want to be eating outside and hearing

1674
02:11:13,100 --> 02:11:13,540
vacuums.

1675
02:11:15,480 --> 02:11:17,300
Also sounds like a lot of compromises

1676
02:11:17,300 --> 02:11:19,240
or having to be made to make this happen.

1677
02:11:19,980 --> 02:11:22,560
So why do we have to make all these compromises?

1678
02:11:22,720 --> 02:11:24,740
Because it's an isor because it's loud,

1679
02:11:25,560 --> 02:11:27,800
and it directly affects the residents of the neighborhood.

1680
02:11:28,640 --> 02:11:31,880
There's not a single car wash that directly borders

1681
02:11:31,880 --> 02:11:33,820
a residential lot in winter park.

1682
02:11:34,160 --> 02:11:36,240
And you would struggle to find one in the surrounding

1683
02:11:36,240 --> 02:11:40,380
greater Orlando area, that directly borders a residential lot.

1684
02:11:41,500 --> 02:11:44,300
So I don't think this is the time to enforce that standard

1685
02:11:44,300 --> 02:11:45,540
in winter park.

1686
02:11:45,540 --> 02:11:48,780
Like Jenna mentioned, there's many car washes nearby.

1687
02:11:50,540 --> 02:11:52,660
Another issue I have is the entrance,

1688
02:11:53,480 --> 02:11:55,080
that we see on the rendering right here.

1689
02:11:55,160 --> 02:11:57,800
There's the stop sign to get,

1690
02:11:57,800 --> 02:12:00,200
that if you're driving on lander to get into our neighborhood.

1691
02:12:00,880 --> 02:12:02,500
So as I'm coming up with that stop sign,

1692
02:12:02,960 --> 02:12:04,880
I would have to simultaneously monitor

1693
02:12:05,390 --> 02:12:08,420
left turns out and that stop sign intersection.

1694
02:12:09,080 --> 02:12:13,460
So that seems like a confusing or difficult traffic situation

1695
02:12:13,460 --> 02:12:17,520
for residents and people entering and exiting the car wash.

1696
02:12:18,940 --> 02:12:28,240
Additionally, a left turn only is, you know, a suggestion to drivers, and they might just turn right in turn neighborhood.

1697
02:12:29,820 --> 02:12:35,260
For the previous conditionally this permit, we were talking about the charm of winter park and the walkability.

1698
02:12:35,260 --> 02:12:41,300
It's really rare to find a home and I'm very grateful that my wife and I were able to buy a house in this neighborhood,

1699
02:12:41,960 --> 02:12:48,200
because of the walkability, I'm always biking or skating or walking around in this area.

1700
02:12:49,020 --> 02:12:50,500
And this would destroy that charm.

1701
02:12:50,940 --> 02:12:56,160
It would make it really difficult for me to bike skate walk around the car wash,

1702
02:12:56,280 --> 02:13:01,060
because of the 400 to 700 additional cars that are going to be on lander.

1703
02:13:01,060 --> 02:13:07,360
I think it's worth mentioning and you pointed out that their traffic analysis is based on

1704
02:13:07,360 --> 02:13:13,500
surrogate modeling from South Florida. None of those car washes have a residential neighborhood

1705
02:13:13,500 --> 02:13:19,700
right next to it and their traffic analysis actually looked into it a bit. It's purely

1706
02:13:19,700 --> 02:13:23,960
talking about alumma. It's not considering the additional traffic on lander.

1707
02:13:28,460 --> 02:13:31,040
I, you know, I've

1708
02:13:31,920 --> 02:13:44,300
Another thing, I was the only resident at the community meeting and, you know, they didn't really make that community meeting known to residents outside of that 500 foot radius.

1709
02:13:44,980 --> 02:13:49,940
And they did it at the second closest elementary school that at Rush Hour.

1710
02:13:50,280 --> 02:13:52,380
So there is no real community outreach effort.

1711
02:13:53,900 --> 02:13:54,060
Thanks.

1712
02:13:54,540 --> 02:13:55,140
Thank you.

1713
02:13:55,440 --> 02:13:56,580
Next is Sean Travis.

1714
02:14:08,540 --> 02:14:14,020
Okay, this is Sean Travis, I'm from 2108 by Rode, I live in the neighborhood as well, pretty close to them.

1715
02:14:14,460 --> 02:14:22,500
Mine, just one of the points has already been mentioned, but it's a lot of the traffic information is like everybody said,

1716
02:14:22,560 --> 02:14:28,340
you know, it's based off of traffic going on to land a road and trying to impact that from happening less,

1717
02:14:28,660 --> 02:14:32,240
but the big concern for me, like mentioned they had mentioned is the traffic going out.

1718
02:14:32,320 --> 02:14:36,540
You know, if there's like a semi-truck or something like that that's coming out as far out, it's already like extremely difficult

1719
02:14:36,540 --> 02:14:39,660
to get out of there. Sometimes you're waiting like 10-plus minutes and people are cutting

1720
02:14:39,660 --> 02:14:43,700
through spouts. Like this is only going to intensify that. So it's going to make it worse.

1721
02:14:43,920 --> 02:14:48,160
Like regardless of what is said. And then, you know, we're having a traffic study done by

1722
02:14:48,160 --> 02:14:53,680
that's out of state or not out of state, but from South Florida and it's also being paid for

1723
02:14:53,680 --> 02:14:58,040
by them. So, you know, they're going to tailor that traffic study in any sort of way that's going

1724
02:14:58,040 --> 02:14:59,660
to benefit them. Obviously, you know, you know.

1725
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:29,340
I'd like to, honestly, I wish I would have known about the sooner I probably would have had my own traffic study done by a third party company that, you know, obviously, I could share, I pretty positive, could come up with a different answer and then it just to, I think, to reclassify the land use or property use to say it's compatible, it's just false, it's not, it's not true, you know, a bank is extremely low impact and this is not that it's high impact and they're going to have hundreds of cars there, it's just not the same.

1726
02:15:29,340 --> 02:15:35,400
so that's all I have. Thank you. Next is Steven Jacobs.

1727
02:15:50,350 --> 02:15:52,770
Good evening. My name is Steve Jacobs.

1728
02:15:52,830 --> 02:15:59,010
I live on 1928 Taylor Avenue. I live there since November of 1998. So for about 27 and a

1729
02:15:59,010 --> 02:16:04,330
half years I'm speaking today against the approval of the conditional use permit for the L. Car Wash.

1730
02:16:05,030 --> 02:16:10,610
One of the reasons which has been talked about a lot is the traffic study. If you look at the

1731
02:16:10,610 --> 02:16:21,030
So the last appendix, the last two pages, it talks about driveway conflicts, and all of the driveway conflicts that have been identified are right turns from

1732
02:16:21,030 --> 02:16:23,110
Aloma and left turns from Aloma.

1733
02:16:23,590 --> 02:16:31,670
There's no driveway conflicts from all the people, most of the people that are coming from winter park, the central area of winter park are going to come down Palmer.

1734
02:16:32,110 --> 02:16:36,570
Then they're going to make a right turn at the Y and come down Lakemont and then they're going to make a decision.

1735
02:16:36,570 --> 02:16:41,530
am I going to sit at the left turn to go on a loma and then make another brutal left turn

1736
02:16:41,530 --> 02:16:46,370
on the lander or am I going to cut down my street tail or avenue and come in the backway.

1737
02:16:46,910 --> 02:16:51,090
That traffic study doesn't even comprehend the possibility of those drivers.

1738
02:16:51,610 --> 02:16:54,070
It completes leap completely omits them.

1739
02:16:54,770 --> 02:16:58,370
And so it's completely flawed and you can't base your decision on that.

1740
02:16:58,650 --> 02:17:02,230
And as far as the left turn only as you lead, come on, please.

1741
02:17:02,230 --> 02:17:14,470
We see those types of curbs all over town, and what you see is tire marks going over the curb because people aren't doing what the the turn thing is telling them to do you see those all over the place

1742
02:17:14,470 --> 02:17:18,890
So this is going to create an entire mess regarding the traffic

1743
02:17:19,610 --> 02:17:23,690
As far as aesthetics are concerned, I think a lot of people have used words

1744
02:17:23,690 --> 02:17:31,510
I'm not going to say I saw some people have said I saw but the bright turquoise hot pink color scheme certainly does not fit in

1745
02:17:31,510 --> 02:17:37,850
the aesthetic of winter park, which is more historic, elegant, conservative and restrained.

1746
02:17:38,250 --> 02:17:42,190
It sticks out. The height makes it stick out, the colors make it stick out.

1747
02:17:42,630 --> 02:17:46,510
But the most important thing, and the thing that no one's people talked about noise, and they've

1748
02:17:46,510 --> 02:17:51,710
talked about vacuums, I'm more concerned about the industrial dryers at the end of the tunnel,

1749
02:17:51,990 --> 02:17:56,630
that below the water off your car. I went and got my car wash today at rain dancer,

1750
02:17:56,630 --> 02:17:59,510
which is on the other side of town, off a 1792,

1751
02:18:00,250 --> 02:18:03,830
bordered by 1792 train tracks in a gas station,

1752
02:18:04,070 --> 02:18:05,990
by the way, not residential neighborhoods.

1753
02:18:07,790 --> 02:18:09,150
The good thing about these apple watches

1754
02:18:09,150 --> 02:18:11,990
is that you can record the decibel levels right on your watch.

1755
02:18:12,750 --> 02:18:16,550
And I stood outside of the wash

1756
02:18:17,070 --> 02:18:20,110
where these commercial dryers are located

1757
02:18:20,110 --> 02:18:23,770
on the other side of a block wall, 88 decibels

1758
02:18:23,770 --> 02:18:25,450
on the other side of a block wall.

1759
02:18:25,450 --> 02:18:28,750
I crossed the parking lot about 50 feet.

1760
02:18:28,890 --> 02:18:32,950
That was 76 decibels once and 81 decibels a second time.

1761
02:18:33,410 --> 02:18:37,150
85 decibels can cause hearing loss after eight hours.

1762
02:18:37,850 --> 02:18:39,650
So we're talking about noise levels

1763
02:18:39,650 --> 02:18:42,530
that are far beyond what this space.

1764
02:18:42,610 --> 02:18:43,990
I know it's commercial space,

1765
02:18:44,230 --> 02:18:47,350
but this is not the highest in best use of this commercial space.

1766
02:18:47,370 --> 02:18:49,930
It's the worst use, and it's because of the noise,

1767
02:18:50,310 --> 02:18:51,870
and that's something we're going to have to live with

1768
02:18:51,870 --> 02:18:54,090
if this goes through for the rest of our lives.

1769
02:18:54,090 --> 02:18:59,280
from seven o'clock in the morning until eight o'clock at night every day. Thank you very much.

1770
02:19:01,850 --> 02:19:03,510
Next is Mike Emerson.

1771
02:19:23,880 --> 02:19:28,880
Howdy, I'm Mike Emerson, 215 Taylor Avenue. We live right in the corner of Taylor,

1772
02:19:29,040 --> 02:19:36,080
land there where there's an anti-degree corner there. It's just to echo what a lot of other people

1773
02:19:36,080 --> 02:19:41,850
are saying about the traffic in the area. I will tell you right now that I'm not with FDOT or

1774
02:19:41,850 --> 02:19:48,390
You know, I never ever go down land or to make a left end to a Loma in the morning or in the afternoon.

1775
02:19:49,310 --> 02:19:51,550
It's just impossible. You're not going to get out there.

1776
02:19:52,290 --> 02:19:57,070
One or two crazy people who want to do that, and they're going to hold up traffic for 10 or 15 minutes at that point.

1777
02:19:57,390 --> 02:19:59,010
And it is actually easier to go down.

1778
02:19:59,710 --> 02:20:06,350
Taylor, make a left on Lakemont and go to and make a left on to a Loma if you want to go left on the Loma.

1779
02:20:06,490 --> 02:20:07,870
It's just ways you're to do that.

1780
02:20:08,910 --> 02:20:11,390
There's going to be a bunch of people cutting through, guaranteed.

1781
02:20:11,810 --> 02:20:15,010
There's no way they're going to, you know, this, this left turn only thing coming out of

1782
02:20:15,010 --> 02:20:15,270
there.

1783
02:20:15,750 --> 02:20:21,510
I am at Sprouts several times a week and every single time I go to Sprouts, there's somebody

1784
02:20:21,510 --> 02:20:22,830
going up the wrong way.

1785
02:20:23,530 --> 02:20:27,650
They've got a one-way parking lot on the side of Sprouts between Sprouts and Landr.

1786
02:20:28,290 --> 02:20:31,070
And guaranteed, if you spend 15 minutes there, you're going to see someone going to

1787
02:20:31,070 --> 02:20:31,810
the wrong way up there.

1788
02:20:32,090 --> 02:20:36,970
There's two huge signs that they do not enter on both sides of that and people just ignore

1789
02:20:36,970 --> 02:20:38,490
and go through there all the time anyway.

1790
02:20:39,730 --> 02:20:45,710
So there's no way that they're going to listen to a no right turn sign there at that

1791
02:20:45,710 --> 02:20:45,990
point.

1792
02:20:46,150 --> 02:20:46,990
It's just not going to happen.

1793
02:20:47,950 --> 02:20:48,770
But that's it.

1794
02:20:48,990 --> 02:20:52,490
The traffic thing, traffic is already terrible there.

1795
02:20:53,470 --> 02:20:56,390
I kind of like the idea of a car wash that the car washers are neat, you know, you get your

1796
02:20:56,390 --> 02:20:59,470
car clean, get it done pretty quick and get back to it.

1797
02:21:00,310 --> 02:21:03,430
But this is just terrible location for that traffic.

1798
02:21:03,430 --> 02:21:08,130
There already needs to be a light there, light there, light has landed as it is.

1799
02:21:08,550 --> 02:21:09,150
That's it.

1800
02:21:10,090 --> 02:21:11,130
Thank you.

1801
02:21:11,170 --> 02:21:12,250
Scott Patton.

1802
02:21:23,490 --> 02:21:25,250
Your name's Scott Patton.

1803
02:21:25,910 --> 02:21:28,270
2 007 Byron Road.

1804
02:21:29,250 --> 02:21:32,210
My family has lived on Byron for 62 years.

1805
02:21:33,430 --> 02:21:39,450
Paying property taxes in winter part and enjoying the quality of life in winter part.

1806
02:21:40,130 --> 02:21:49,590
What we have here is a conflict of two ideologies.

1807
02:21:50,750 --> 02:21:52,730
The applicant has a profit motive.

1808
02:21:55,340 --> 02:21:57,780
The city of Winner Park has a quality of life motive.

1809
02:21:59,200 --> 02:22:05,380
And I would hope that the city of Winner Park would stick with that profit motive

1810
02:22:05,380 --> 02:22:10,960
with that quality of life, motive, and protect the quality of your life for the citizens

1811
02:22:10,960 --> 02:22:16,340
in one or part, and in our little neighborhood that I'm guessing these folks probably

1812
02:22:16,340 --> 02:22:21,120
don't know the name of, it's East Gate, by the way.

1813
02:22:22,640 --> 02:22:28,860
So thank you for having me, we're not supposed to repeat each other a lot, but you see a

1814
02:22:28,860 --> 02:22:29,380
here.

1815
02:22:29,900 --> 02:22:29,980
It's...

1816
02:22:30,000 --> 02:22:39,040
Traffic congestion, period, and quality of life. And I hope that you side with the quality of life. Thank you.

1817
02:22:39,280 --> 02:22:40,100
Thank you.

1818
02:22:40,380 --> 02:22:41,180
Greg Ackerman.

1819
02:22:49,490 --> 02:22:59,350
Good evening board members, Greg Ackerman, 1933, Taylor Avenue. I just want to echo a lot of what other people have said here.

1820
02:23:00,090 --> 02:23:06,890
Traffic is a huge problem. I've lived in the neighborhood since 2003, so 23 years approximately.

1821
02:23:06,890 --> 02:23:14,990
race, three kids. And over the years we've actually consulted with the State of Winter Park Police Department

1822
02:23:14,990 --> 02:23:23,170
to try to minimize the already bad cut-through traffic that we have in the neighborhood. The police departments

1823
02:23:23,170 --> 02:23:29,110
have done traffic studies. They've laid down strips on the road to monitor how many cars come through.

1824
02:23:29,110 --> 02:23:36,650
They've done some speed, radar ring, and we believe it or not, we've got the results of those tests,

1825
02:23:36,790 --> 02:23:42,030
and we've had people come to the neighborhood at 80 miles an hour, done on Taylor Avenue.

1826
02:23:42,950 --> 02:23:49,770
It's only by the grace of God that no kid in our neighborhood has been killed by one of these vehicles

1827
02:23:49,770 --> 02:23:56,510
coming through our neighborhood. And having a car wash here with 400 to 700, it's just going to be an

1828
02:23:56,510 --> 02:24:08,590
absolute unmitigated disaster to have his car wash and that location. Frankly, the self-serve car wash that's bit that was there for a while.

1829
02:24:09,130 --> 02:24:14,610
I don't know why it's there. I think that particular location should be re-zone to something else.

1830
02:24:15,450 --> 02:24:18,530
The bank is much different than a car wash.

1831
02:24:18,530 --> 02:24:26,990
And so I oppose this very much, and I think that some of the things that the car wash people

1832
02:24:26,990 --> 02:24:31,650
have said, you all picked up on it, it doesn't make it's not right.

1833
02:24:31,730 --> 02:24:36,310
The left hand turn, the fact that employees are going to use some of the parking spots that

1834
02:24:36,310 --> 02:24:39,190
are there for customers, it's just, it's not believable.

1835
02:24:40,310 --> 02:24:46,070
So I think that you should recommend that this be rejected, thank you very much.

1836
02:24:46,770 --> 02:24:47,370
Thank you.

1837
02:24:49,360 --> 02:24:50,980
That was the final speaker, Chairman.

1838
02:24:51,760 --> 02:24:53,780
Okay, would the team care to make her a bubble?

1839
02:24:56,860 --> 02:24:58,300
Again, for the record, McGregor loved.

1840
02:24:58,880 --> 02:25:02,060
I will say that I'm sorry that I didn't hear from most of you at the community meeting.

1841
02:25:02,840 --> 02:25:08,280
To Brett's point, the notice was sent out consistent with the city's requirements.

1842
02:25:08,640 --> 02:25:11,380
That's not something that was intentional.

1843
02:25:11,780 --> 02:25:17,140
We certainly would have genuinely would have liked to hear some of this feedback prior to being here tonight.

1844
02:25:17,140 --> 02:25:18,780
That's what the process is for.

1845
02:25:18,780 --> 02:25:22,680
and it would certainly guide our decision-making.

1846
02:25:23,480 --> 02:25:25,720
So thank you for coming out and speaking tonight.

1847
02:25:27,420 --> 02:25:29,180
Another thing that we were discussing internally

1848
02:25:29,180 --> 02:25:32,100
while folks were getting up and discussing these concerns,

1849
02:25:33,500 --> 02:25:37,560
this is a general statement, but to the city staff,

1850
02:25:37,860 --> 02:25:39,860
we're absolutely open to making,

1851
02:25:40,080 --> 02:25:42,880
I don't know whether the folks here feel

1852
02:25:42,880 --> 02:25:45,860
that there are off-site improvements needed

1853
02:25:45,860 --> 02:25:48,000
to the roadway networks in their area.

1854
02:25:48,000 --> 02:25:55,700
of the gentleman mentioned, you know, the idea that a signal would be necessary, but we're

1855
02:25:55,700 --> 02:26:00,060
open to making off-site improvements that the city feels would actually improve the situation

1856
02:26:00,060 --> 02:26:09,300
on this property. And again, that is not because that's necessarily something that a traffic

1857
02:26:09,300 --> 02:26:16,200
study would say you must do, but we've recognized the situation is real. I know that these folks

1858
02:26:16,200 --> 02:26:22,860
start making up the traffic situation they're dealing with, and, you know, we're happy to address

1859
02:26:22,860 --> 02:26:27,380
that if possible. So I don't know that that could be reduced any sort of condition,

1860
02:26:27,600 --> 02:26:33,500
but it's on the record statement that we're willing to accommodate, you know, traffic

1861
02:26:33,500 --> 02:26:43,460
improvements off-site. Thank you. Any questions for the applicant before we go to the

1862
02:26:43,460 --> 02:26:45,980
Mister Quintana speak briefly. I'm sorry.

1863
02:26:48,500 --> 02:26:51,980
Sorry about that. I just wanted to hit a couple of the topics that were brought up by

1864
02:26:53,120 --> 02:26:56,740
The community which I appreciate you guys all coming out. It's

1865
02:26:56,740 --> 02:26:58,340
important to be part of the community

1866
02:26:58,340 --> 02:27:04,420
Elcar Wash tries to integrate into our communities. We are a just want to clarify. We are a four to own business

1867
02:27:04,420 --> 02:27:09,240
Yes, we do operate down in South Florida, but as I mentioned we are

1868
02:27:09,240 --> 02:27:13,880
Slowly becoming the number one operator here in central Florida and so

1869
02:27:14,820 --> 02:27:18,460
most of our employees live anywhere from three to five miles from our sites.

1870
02:27:20,080 --> 02:27:25,540
And yes, per shift we only have two to three employees, but you're thinking two shifts.

1871
02:27:25,740 --> 02:27:27,380
Multiply that. That's four to six employees.

1872
02:27:27,860 --> 02:27:32,360
But then also you're talking about all the further jobs that come down the line.

1873
02:27:32,600 --> 02:27:36,280
Area new area managers, new regional managers, et cetera, et cetera.

1874
02:27:36,400 --> 02:27:40,240
That grows the business. And you know, we promote internally.

1875
02:27:40,240 --> 02:27:45,400
we believe in, you know, someone starting from the ground up and then working there where I have to

1876
02:27:45,400 --> 02:27:52,400
corporate, we have numerous employees like that. The chemical runoff I know is a big question. Mr.

1877
02:27:52,660 --> 02:27:58,340
Draper, with Kimway Horan, has designed our site to meet all city and state regulations that

1878
02:27:58,340 --> 02:28:03,860
maintains all of our rainwater on our site. I'm headed to give a moment. We also design our

1879
02:28:03,860 --> 02:28:11,100
with three 2000 gallon reclaim tanks that come out of the tunnel. They use a

1880
02:28:11,100 --> 02:28:16,740
baffle and wear system so essentially they flow from one tank to another and at

1881
02:28:16,740 --> 02:28:22,900
that given point when that reclaim water is reused one gallon is reused six

1882
02:28:22,900 --> 02:28:27,120
different times at various points of the car wash. From there it goes through an oil

1883
02:28:27,120 --> 02:28:33,840
sand separator where then it is put out into the city system. So every chemical that we

1884
02:28:33,840 --> 02:28:38,660
use as biodegradable and that we can provide MSDS sheets from

1885
02:28:38,660 --> 02:28:42,740
Sonny's who's also a four-to-one company that we work with and we get all our

1886
02:28:42,740 --> 02:28:49,060
chemicals from. And then community

1887
02:28:52,800 --> 02:28:55,080
meeting as we mentioned we were there. I was

1888
02:28:55,080 --> 02:29:00,040
there present and attendance. I know that we sent out the notices,

1889
02:29:00,460 --> 02:29:05,130
personity regulations and shows based on accommodation to meet the

1890
02:29:05,130 --> 02:29:10,050
should do get to this meeting in time. And then also the blowers out coming out of the tunnel

1891
02:29:10,050 --> 02:29:17,510
and that was a big concern. Our car wash, we tried to, we recognized that pain point at a lot

1892
02:29:17,510 --> 02:29:22,750
of our sites and we developed what it is is a pressure plate system. So when your car gets to a

1893
02:29:22,750 --> 02:29:27,790
certain point in the tunnel, then those blowers activate for a temporary time as you're going

1894
02:29:27,790 --> 02:29:33,190
through that only that section. They're not running 247. So if a car is not in the tunnel or active

1895
02:29:33,190 --> 02:29:37,850
in that point of the pressure plate, then those blows aren't doing. We also have the ability

1896
02:29:37,850 --> 02:29:45,410
to, you know, turn them inwards, a lot of older car washes, point them just outwards

1897
02:29:45,410 --> 02:29:49,570
because they want to blow the water out of there. We try to keep all of our water in the tunnel,

1898
02:29:49,770 --> 02:29:54,800
so they kind of move with you, but they don't point outwards towards the building and then I know

1899
02:29:55,410 --> 02:29:59,390
one other citizen had a concern about where the sounds coming from.

1900
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:29,980
I didn't clarify fully, but those backing producers, it's not a motor at each individual vacuum. I know it looks like it because we have our little trash cans there in the towel bins, but all the motors are being powered by that single producer. That's inside that concrete enclosure. So that's where the sound is coming from when you pull the nozzle off. That's why the sound is different at just that one. Just sounds like you're vacuum running at a given moment. But the main one is we keep that vacuum enclosure or the producers inside that vacuum enclosure.

1901
02:30:33,240 --> 02:30:37,270
And that is mainly it.

1902
02:30:38,510 --> 02:30:38,530
Okay.

1903
02:30:38,590 --> 02:30:39,610
Can I ask one question?

1904
02:30:40,470 --> 02:30:46,530
Did I hear you say that a single gallon of water is used six times in the same wash cycle?

1905
02:30:47,310 --> 02:30:47,690
Yes, sir.

1906
02:30:47,930 --> 02:30:52,030
So we use a combination of what we call reclaim water and fresh water.

1907
02:30:52,150 --> 02:30:53,290
So at various points.

1908
02:30:53,850 --> 02:30:55,630
So the initial soak of your car.

1909
02:30:56,210 --> 02:30:57,810
I can provide all this data to you guys.

1910
02:30:57,950 --> 02:30:59,950
So what we've done is every single piece of equipment.

1911
02:30:59,950 --> 02:31:02,950
and we've deemed that it either uses fresh water

1912
02:31:02,950 --> 02:31:06,930
or reclaim water, mainly we use the reclaim water

1913
02:31:06,930 --> 02:31:08,890
for like the undercarriage spray.

1914
02:31:09,930 --> 02:31:12,070
And so what it does is then it goes into that trench,

1915
02:31:12,310 --> 02:31:13,470
which is then funneled back out.

1916
02:31:13,470 --> 02:31:16,910
And we have also RO tanks inside the equipment room,

1917
02:31:17,130 --> 02:31:18,910
which then pulls that water back in,

1918
02:31:19,190 --> 02:31:21,590
is treated with a biodegradable chemical,

1919
02:31:21,830 --> 02:31:23,470
and then used on this undercarriage spray.

1920
02:31:24,030 --> 02:31:26,970
And then after it's reused all those different times,

1921
02:31:27,730 --> 02:31:29,250
then it goes to the oil sand separator

1922
02:31:29,250 --> 02:31:32,130
make sure that everything is fully out of it and then put into your

1923
02:31:32,130 --> 02:31:32,230
rescue.

1924
02:31:32,230 --> 02:31:32,570
Appreciate it.

1925
02:31:32,870 --> 02:31:34,250
It has really nothing to do with the application.

1926
02:31:34,510 --> 02:31:37,970
I was just curious whether every time I go through one of these car washers, I'm

1927
02:31:37,970 --> 02:31:40,710
getting five gallons of dirty water versus one gallon of clean.

1928
02:31:40,970 --> 02:31:41,930
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

1929
02:31:42,210 --> 02:31:46,070
You're getting anywhere from, I think that we've worked it down on a different project

1930
02:31:46,070 --> 02:31:46,970
on an orange counting.

1931
02:31:47,050 --> 02:31:51,730
I think we've worked it down to anywhere from 18 to 20 gallons of fresh water per

1932
02:31:51,730 --> 02:31:53,870
car and then the rest is reclaim water.

1933
02:31:53,870 --> 02:31:54,330
Thank you.

1934
02:31:54,410 --> 02:31:54,810
Yes, sir.

1935
02:31:54,810 --> 02:31:57,510
Mr. Chair, over here.

1936
02:31:57,830 --> 02:31:59,630
I was hoping that applicant could clarify

1937
02:31:59,630 --> 02:32:01,730
they had made a comment that they were willing

1938
02:32:01,730 --> 02:32:04,670
to concede parking spaces for employees,

1939
02:32:04,690 --> 02:32:07,550
but they did not specify the amount of parking spaces.

1940
02:32:07,550 --> 02:32:08,290
It's not aware.

1941
02:32:08,950 --> 02:32:10,710
I mean, I'd like that put on the record

1942
02:32:10,710 --> 02:32:13,930
and I appreciate that.

1943
02:32:14,030 --> 02:32:16,210
Specifically, you said specifically,

1944
02:32:16,570 --> 02:32:18,230
I'd be willing to give up three

1945
02:32:18,230 --> 02:32:20,550
because we keep three on any given moment,

1946
02:32:21,050 --> 02:32:22,290
but we're open to discussions.

1947
02:32:22,290 --> 02:32:22,570
Thanks.

1948
02:32:23,550 --> 02:32:23,590
Good.

1949
02:32:24,570 --> 02:32:25,610
So thank you for that.

1950
02:32:25,870 --> 02:32:26,370
Three to five.

1951
02:32:27,190 --> 02:32:27,970
Give her take.

1952
02:32:30,530 --> 02:32:34,130
While I have the microphone, did anyone leave a pair of glasses up here?

1953
02:32:36,130 --> 02:32:36,830
Thank you, Mr. Love.

1954
02:32:38,710 --> 02:32:38,950
Okay.

1955
02:32:39,750 --> 02:32:40,830
We'll go into closed session.

1956
02:32:41,870 --> 02:32:43,230
Who wants to start?

1957
02:32:43,790 --> 02:32:44,590
Left or right?

1958
02:32:48,150 --> 02:32:48,630
I'd

1959
02:32:53,780 --> 02:32:55,420
like to see a traffic study.

1960
02:32:56,160 --> 02:32:58,160
I think that's a big issue here.

1961
02:32:58,160 --> 02:33:05,360
I think everyone's commented on the traffic conditions that already exist, and if there's going to be 400 to

1962
02:33:07,520 --> 02:33:08,720
700 cars,

1963
02:33:09,900 --> 02:33:16,340
using the facility per day, then where are those cars coming from and where are they going?

1964
02:33:19,020 --> 02:33:26,160
I kind of have issues with a lot of things, so I guess the bottom line is it just feels like

1965
02:33:27,500 --> 02:33:32,860
the wrong use in the wrong location to me.

1966
02:33:33,760 --> 02:33:36,980
I could go through the tower height that bothers me.

1967
02:33:37,000 --> 02:33:40,500
I appreciate the fact that you're willing to remove

1968
02:33:41,480 --> 02:33:45,520
three of the vacuum stalls to create three parking spaces.

1969
02:33:50,120 --> 02:33:51,080
It feels

1970
02:33:53,800 --> 02:33:56,220
like there's a lot of issues with this project,

1971
02:33:56,420 --> 02:33:58,860
and I think maybe the number one thing is probably the traffic.

1972
02:33:58,860 --> 02:34:06,240
So I'd like to see a specific location traffic study on this particular location.

1973
02:34:07,480 --> 02:34:08,740
Mr. Seagull?

1974
02:34:10,900 --> 02:34:17,660
This is a good example of why we have public hearings because we were briefed on it.

1975
02:34:18,820 --> 02:34:20,540
You know, you hear the staff.

1976
02:34:20,540 --> 02:34:25,880
point of view, you look at it, but then you have neighbors that come out and point out

1977
02:34:25,880 --> 02:34:34,300
a lot of things that maybe didn't meet the eye, and this is an example to me of cumulative

1978
02:34:34,300 --> 02:34:39,680
impacts. You just, you know, it checks a lot of boxes, but, you know, it just gets there

1979
02:34:39,680 --> 02:34:46,560
and maybe meets the test, but maybe doesn't barely meet it, but, you know, when you have

1980
02:34:46,560 --> 02:34:53,560
So many issues, and then I look at East Gate and, you know, it's a sweet little community.

1981
02:34:54,500 --> 02:35:04,300
And it has been the victim of a lot of cut-through traffic over time, and this is a conditional

1982
02:35:04,300 --> 02:35:06,740
use, not a by-right.

1983
02:35:08,800 --> 02:35:13,440
So I'm leaning towards not supporting it.

1984
02:35:15,460 --> 02:35:20,620
Mr. Vice Chair, it's your last meeting, so I'm going to give you the last word on the last application, so let me move on.

1985
02:35:23,540 --> 02:35:24,080
I'm sorry.

1986
02:35:24,760 --> 02:35:25,600
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

1987
02:35:28,580 --> 02:35:33,300
You know, I think they're trying, but it's just not compatible for the location.

1988
02:35:33,840 --> 02:35:41,120
I don't think that the uniqueness of this location by virtue of the fact that it backs up to the neighborhood

1989
02:35:41,120 --> 02:35:47,100
and has cut through issues and none of that was addressed in determining whether or not this would be

1990
02:35:47,100 --> 02:35:52,260
compatible for the location and a lot of their other locations, not one of the other locations

1991
02:35:52,260 --> 02:35:58,720
in Florida has the same issue that this one does. So why should they be special? I just

1992
02:35:58,720 --> 02:36:04,600
don't see it. I think it's not compatible for several reasons and I think that's the main

1993
02:36:04,600 --> 02:36:09,080
one. So I would not recommend it. Mr. Dick?

1994
02:36:09,920 --> 02:36:31,040
Yeah, as minimum I was, you know, thinking that we needed to table this first, you know, additional information, you know, certain issues come up, pink, well, you know, have any architectural guidelines and winter parks, so, you know, you can't really judge, you know, a development by its color,

1995
02:36:33,100 --> 02:36:38,980
you know, my initial concerns were, you know, basically the, the imposing, you know, tower,

1996
02:36:39,080 --> 02:36:48,000
When you have a 20-foot basic building, you can still put some signage on that that would

1997
02:36:48,000 --> 02:36:57,360
kind of mark the territory that is there so that possibly could have been dealt with.

1998
02:37:01,420 --> 02:37:11,380
Yeah, it just comes down to you have a conditional use that allows car washes.

1999
02:37:11,380 --> 02:37:23,020
But that doesn't guarantee a car wash so you know, I'm hoping that the applicant didn't get too much of a

2000
02:37:23,020 --> 02:37:25,460
You know, not from staff that this would

2001
02:37:26,740 --> 02:37:29,980
You know, be acceptable certainly probably check the

2002
02:37:30,000 --> 02:37:45,640
On the boxes, I was a little distressed that it was a local traffic study. I was also distressed that there was no noise studied done, notwithstanding the fact that it wasn't required.

2003
02:37:47,040 --> 02:37:55,440
I think anybody would have to realize that this was going to be a sensitive application and a sensitive location, so that should have been forthcoming.

2004
02:37:57,220 --> 02:38:03,240
So I would have been willing to do a table and have all these other things come back positive

2005
02:38:03,240 --> 02:38:09,280
and fix, but I think, you know, from hearing the neighborhood, I think it's pretty

2006
02:38:09,280 --> 02:38:14,540
conclusive to me that this is not the right project for this particular site.

2007
02:38:15,820 --> 02:38:18,560
I'm going to give my vice chairman the last word.

2008
02:38:19,160 --> 02:38:25,420
I echo Mr. Seagull's comments that this is, you know, a textbook example of why it's

2009
02:38:25,420 --> 02:38:32,840
to have a public meeting, at our work session, I think some of us had a few concerns about it.

2010
02:38:32,940 --> 02:38:38,880
We talked about a few things, but I think my concerns were heightened by hearing more

2011
02:38:38,880 --> 02:38:45,200
about it tonight and by hearing some of the public comment. This is commercial property.

2012
02:38:47,040 --> 02:38:51,900
There is going to be some commercial development of this property, but it's a conditionally

2013
02:38:51,900 --> 02:38:59,020
use request and we're allowed to recommend approval or denial of it based on what we see

2014
02:38:59,020 --> 02:38:59,460
fit.

2015
02:39:00,240 --> 02:39:05,700
And I understand that having the tower and having the brand and hot pink is part of your

2016
02:39:05,700 --> 02:39:06,060
brand.

2017
02:39:06,980 --> 02:39:11,240
And the reason you want that big tower with that hot pink signage is to get as much attention

2018
02:39:11,240 --> 02:39:11,860
as possible.

2019
02:39:12,620 --> 02:39:18,880
But I don't think it fits within the scale and charm of what the city of Winter Park is looking

2020
02:39:18,880 --> 02:39:19,600
for there.

2021
02:39:19,600 --> 02:39:26,000
is a new auto zone that's going in where the old Denny's was, right?

2022
02:39:26,000 --> 02:39:31,800
Right next to Interstate 4, doesn't back up to a residential property, and we forced them

2023
02:39:31,800 --> 02:39:37,280
to change the look of that property, so it fit more within the type of architecture

2024
02:39:37,280 --> 02:39:39,240
that we like here in the city of Wooder Park.

2025
02:39:39,520 --> 02:39:47,810
I mean, I just don't think this fits in with what the city's idea of what redevelopment

2026
02:39:47,810 --> 02:39:55,690
some of these parcels looks like. I think you found a unique parcel or two sets of parcels

2027
02:39:55,690 --> 02:40:01,390
that were pretty deep. You maximized what you could put on that to the exclusion of having

2028
02:40:01,390 --> 02:40:07,770
any dedicated parking. I understand you're conceding that now. But if you had cut this back

2029
02:40:07,770 --> 02:40:12,730
to a much smaller, more normal sized tunnel, or maybe you couldn't fit as many cars throughout

2030
02:40:12,730 --> 02:40:20,250
same time, you could have created a greater buffer with the residents to the back, but I pulled

2031
02:40:20,250 --> 02:40:25,270
up an area of this and I didn't realize to lies zoomed in that like immediately to the

2032
02:40:25,270 --> 02:40:29,730
north there was a house and you couldn't tell on the original area I saw because the roof

2033
02:40:29,730 --> 02:40:37,490
is dark, but you're right up next to homes in this neighborhood. I share a lot of the concerns

2034
02:40:37,490 --> 02:40:43,830
about traffic, I think making it right in, left out only is going to be a name only.

2035
02:40:43,930 --> 02:40:46,350
People are going to drive over that curb and cut through the neighborhood.

2036
02:40:48,570 --> 02:40:52,250
I don't know if there's anything the applicant can do about that, but it's a concern of mine.

2037
02:40:52,870 --> 02:40:58,390
But more for me, and it's not that it's car wash, it's that I just don't think it fits

2038
02:40:58,390 --> 02:41:01,590
within the scale and charm of what the city is trying to do with its redevelopment

2039
02:41:01,590 --> 02:41:02,190
for that reason.

2040
02:41:02,430 --> 02:41:03,630
I would vote against it.

2041
02:41:03,630 --> 02:41:05,270
Mr. Vice Chairman,

2042
02:41:07,430 --> 02:41:11,490
if I could for a second briefly, Mr. Chairman, if I could interrupt before.

2043
02:41:12,850 --> 02:41:15,210
Hang on one second, let me give you the Vice Chair's.

2044
02:41:16,810 --> 02:41:18,350
My last, maybe my last words.

2045
02:41:20,830 --> 02:41:25,850
I always try to come in here with an open mind.

2046
02:41:26,630 --> 02:41:37,170
And I'm always willing to change my mind based on new testimony and what I hear at meetings.

2047
02:41:37,530 --> 02:41:44,370
I came in honestly, sort of liking the idea of a car wash two minutes from our house,

2048
02:41:45,350 --> 02:41:53,130
where my wife could use, and she loves the semi self-service car washes, so the convenience

2049
02:41:53,130 --> 02:41:59,630
of that and the fact that it was going to be a new facility taking the place of what right

2050
02:41:59,630 --> 02:42:07,870
now is an empty bank and a really derelict old car wash seemed like an improvement to me.

2051
02:42:07,870 --> 02:42:09,690
That being said,

2052
02:42:11,750 --> 02:42:16,850
the residents, tonight were pretty damning.

2053
02:42:18,530 --> 02:42:29,590
And I, you know, listening to the impact to everybody behind the car wash had an impact on me.

2054
02:42:30,750 --> 02:42:31,230
So,

2055
02:42:34,090 --> 02:42:42,490
I mean, I would strongly recommend to you all that you table this or type pull it off the table before you go to City Commission.

2056
02:42:42,690 --> 02:42:45,550
You know how the vote's going to go from planning and zoning tonight.

2057
02:42:45,730 --> 02:42:48,210
I think that's pretty evident.

2058
02:42:49,070 --> 02:42:53,690
I do hope that this property gets developed in an appropriate way at a certain point.

2059
02:42:55,130 --> 02:43:02,130
And move forward from there, my goal and my six years on planning and zoning has always

2060
02:43:02,130 --> 02:43:07,910
been to try to look out for the greater good of the city of Winter Park, not the single

2061
02:43:07,910 --> 02:43:15,530
resident, not necessarily even the single neighborhood, but what will make the city a better

2062
02:43:15,530 --> 02:43:16,470
place to live.

2063
02:43:17,330 --> 02:43:23,210
And right now for better or for worse, what we are hearing is that this car wash, a car wash,

2064
02:43:23,210 --> 02:43:29,510
not this car wash because you guys are not the enemy. You are not, you are not doing a bad

2065
02:43:29,510 --> 02:43:38,770
thing by looking at a business model here. But this does not seem to me to be something that

2066
02:43:38,770 --> 02:43:47,530
will promote the greater good of the city of Winter Park. Thank you. Thank you. And Mr. Borenstein

2067
02:43:47,530 --> 02:43:52,470
your comments dot tell nicely into what I was going to say, which is it just in the

2068
02:43:52,470 --> 02:43:56,290
as the same for you, it was the first time that you've heard a lot of these objections.

2069
02:43:56,530 --> 02:44:01,550
It's really the first time we've heard them as well, unfortunately, and that I know that

2070
02:44:01,550 --> 02:44:04,770
there are residents here tonight that were outside the buffer area.

2071
02:44:06,090 --> 02:44:10,510
There was one resident here tonight that was at the community meeting, but it really wasn't

2072
02:44:10,510 --> 02:44:17,170
until we saw the online petition that we even knew that there was a really a sustained and

2073
02:44:17,170 --> 02:44:23,110
and sizable concern about the project and it wasn't until tonight that we heard those

2074
02:44:23,110 --> 02:44:29,830
concerns and like you that has an impact on on how we think about this project and what

2075
02:44:29,830 --> 02:44:34,570
might need to be done to potentially make it compatible with the neighborhood.

2076
02:44:35,170 --> 02:44:41,950
We would ask for a continuing to table in the results of that maybe that the team concludes

2077
02:44:42,730 --> 02:44:48,610
that it can't be made to address these concerns or that we don't move forward with it,

2078
02:44:48,710 --> 02:44:54,970
but it provides us with an opportunity to digest what we've heard tonight, and see if we can address

2079
02:44:54,970 --> 02:44:56,150
those concerns and revise.

2080
02:44:56,370 --> 02:44:58,450
I appreciate that.

2081
02:44:58,650 --> 02:44:59,970
Dan, is it-

2082
02:45:00,240 --> 02:45:19,500
Within my authority's chair to just, I mean, we've been through a lot tonight. We've heard from a lot of the members of the general public who came and spoke on the issue, I think you're entitled to an upper down vote, and I would say no to a tabling of it. Can I make that decision, you know, laterally, you're doing need to have a vote at the board?

2083
02:45:20,080 --> 02:45:21,660
It's the vote of the board.

2084
02:45:22,300 --> 02:45:24,840
The applicant's not entitled to a table,

2085
02:45:25,040 --> 02:45:26,980
and it's up to the board by vote.

2086
02:45:28,300 --> 02:45:29,020
Okay. Thank you, Mr.

2087
02:45:29,340 --> 02:45:30,040
Mr. Wood?

2088
02:45:30,420 --> 02:45:33,780
I mean, they could pull it from the agenda for city commission

2089
02:45:33,780 --> 02:45:35,780
prior to the meeting. Could they not?

2090
02:45:35,860 --> 02:45:37,400
They could do all the application, right?

2091
02:45:37,400 --> 02:45:39,840
They could withdraw the application before you vote.

2092
02:45:39,940 --> 02:45:41,440
If you start voting, they cannot.

2093
02:45:42,880 --> 02:45:45,080
But they could withdraw it right now.

2094
02:45:45,280 --> 02:45:47,420
They could withdraw it right now, before they start voting.

2095
02:45:48,820 --> 02:45:51,200
But then if they would draw, they have to start over.

2096
02:45:52,960 --> 02:45:59,700
The question, I'm sorry, was the question whether they can ask the commission the table?

2097
02:46:01,500 --> 02:46:01,780
Yeah.

2098
02:46:02,920 --> 02:46:06,200
This can go forward with a recommendation for denial.

2099
02:46:06,820 --> 02:46:06,860
Right.

2100
02:46:09,160 --> 02:46:13,100
Once it gets to the commission, if they ask the commission the table, they could table.

2101
02:46:13,580 --> 02:46:14,120
That's up the commission.

2102
02:46:14,120 --> 02:46:14,840
That's true.

2103
02:46:14,840 --> 02:46:20,780
Right. My opinion, though, is that these residents deserve an upper-down vote by this board,

2104
02:46:21,140 --> 02:46:26,280
tonight, what the applicant does with its application after that is up to the applicant, of course.

2105
02:46:27,640 --> 02:46:31,540
Okay, so there is a request by the applicant to table the application.

2106
02:46:34,180 --> 02:46:37,040
Is anybody on the board want to do that?

2107
02:46:37,240 --> 02:46:39,420
So please make a motion and we'll see if there's a second.

2108
02:46:41,500 --> 02:46:46,420
If they withdraw their application prior to a vote, what does that do to their timetable?

2109
02:46:47,720 --> 02:46:48,780
It's a sort of process all over.

2110
02:46:48,800 --> 02:46:49,960
Because they start the process all over.

2111
02:46:50,200 --> 02:46:55,720
Another community meeting, another advertising, another application fee.

2112
02:46:58,770 --> 02:47:00,130
The facts over Maine.

2113
02:47:00,550 --> 02:47:02,510
Would you like me to answer kind of what we might do?

2114
02:47:02,930 --> 02:47:04,310
Because this is a recommending body.

2115
02:47:04,510 --> 02:47:09,050
We wouldn't really wouldn't be any benefit to us with drawing it right now.

2116
02:47:10,230 --> 02:47:38,550
But we could always do that before City Commission, but what we've asked for is a tabling so that we can actually come back before you because you've done some of the brain damage to understand the issues here, and we'd like to present you with a revised plan, and I think you'd all remember, and we'd be able to show our progress and you could judge it just like you judged the first application today that came back to you.

2117
02:47:41,740 --> 02:47:42,700
Thank you, Mr. Love.

2118
02:47:44,560 --> 02:47:47,280
If anybody wants to make a motion to table, I'll entertain it.

2119
02:47:53,580 --> 02:47:57,900
Is there a motion to, with respect to the application itself?

2120
02:47:58,180 --> 02:47:59,460
I'm not hearing a motion to table.

2121
02:48:07,300 --> 02:48:08,860
You want to make the final motion, Mr. Bordstein?

2122
02:48:11,040 --> 02:48:12,560
Let's go through two ways.

2123
02:48:13,600 --> 02:48:16,860
I'll make a motion to table, which we can vote.

2124
02:48:17,380 --> 02:48:19,760
Is there a second on the motion to table?

2125
02:48:20,800 --> 02:48:24,040
And if there's no second, then it dies there.

2126
02:48:25,320 --> 02:48:30,060
I will recommend that we recommend the city council, then I hope.

2127
02:48:30,500 --> 02:48:30,880
That's okay.

2128
02:48:31,360 --> 02:48:35,980
So I didn't hear a second of the motion to table, so the motion fails for like a second.

2129
02:48:36,340 --> 02:48:37,460
I'll make a motion to the nine.

2130
02:48:40,370 --> 02:48:41,690
Billy, would you like to second it?

2131
02:48:41,750 --> 02:48:43,170
Is this the application?

2132
02:48:43,970 --> 02:48:44,150
Yes.

2133
02:48:44,650 --> 02:48:45,330
I'll take it.

2134
02:48:45,550 --> 02:48:50,270
And then just for the record, the recommendation to the analysis based on the comments

2135
02:48:50,270 --> 02:48:55,710
from the board collectively, since the motion that are articulated, but we do get a lot

2136
02:48:55,710 --> 02:48:56,650
of comments from the board.

2137
02:48:56,990 --> 02:49:02,730
Is that the intent of the motion to essentially wrap up all the members' comments on

2138
02:49:02,730 --> 02:49:03,970
the record with respect to the board?

2139
02:49:03,970 --> 02:49:06,390
Is the need like some specific reason?

2140
02:49:07,270 --> 02:49:13,610
It's helpful for the staff to communicate to the commission why you're making that recommendation.

2141
02:49:14,610 --> 02:49:23,030
My opinion is that above all, it was traffic, seems to be in the surrounded bulk to the surrounding neighborhoods, that's my opinion.

2142
02:49:23,730 --> 02:49:25,310
So, let me do this.

2143
02:49:25,930 --> 02:49:26,470
Will you withdraw?

2144
02:49:28,170 --> 02:49:33,210
I have in the past refrain from making motions myself.

2145
02:49:33,870 --> 02:49:41,950
In this situation, I think what I would like to do is go back to sort of what we used to do on the Board of Adjustments,

2146
02:49:41,950 --> 02:49:49,170
which is recommend approval so that no votes are very clear on what they mean when the city

2147
02:49:49,170 --> 02:49:54,690
commission hears it. Does that make sense? So if people, if I vote to approve and everybody

2148
02:49:54,690 --> 02:49:59,870
votes know, then there are six no votes in the city commission hears, it got six no votes.

2149
02:50:00,230 --> 02:50:09,330
Whereas if we vote to deny, and there are six yes votes, it's still denied, but I make a motion

2150
02:50:09,330 --> 02:50:17,890
to approve. May I interject, I'm sure. My concern is that, okay, so if you move to approve,

2151
02:50:18,150 --> 02:50:25,110
and that's denied, there isn't a decision at that point. You still have, there has to be a decision

2152
02:50:25,110 --> 02:50:30,490
because a motion to approve that's denied does not actually deny that. Oh, it's not making a

2153
02:50:30,490 --> 02:50:34,610
recommendation, okay. That's different. That's just different. That's the difference between

2154
02:50:34,610 --> 02:50:37,610
Yeah, are boarders for it, yes, you're right.

2155
02:50:37,950 --> 02:50:39,130
Thank you for that, Mr. Langley.

2156
02:50:39,910 --> 02:50:42,670
Okay, so we are sticking with the motion for tonight.

2157
02:50:43,490 --> 02:50:47,470
For the reasons for the stated in closed session by the members of the board.

2158
02:50:51,480 --> 02:50:52,360
Is there second?

2159
02:50:52,640 --> 02:50:53,040
Okay.

2160
02:50:54,020 --> 02:50:56,320
The motion is second. Can I have a roll call vote, please?

2161
02:50:56,920 --> 02:50:58,180
Yes, Mr. Dick.

2162
02:50:59,140 --> 02:51:00,100
Mr. Steinberg.

2163
02:51:00,240 --> 02:51:00,640
Hi.

2164
02:51:01,200 --> 02:51:01,760
Mr. Seigle.

2165
02:51:02,020 --> 02:51:02,300
Yes.

2166
02:51:02,600 --> 02:51:03,340
Mr. Seigle.

2167
02:51:03,340 --> 02:51:04,160
Yes.

2168
02:51:04,280 --> 02:51:05,460
Vice Chair Boycein?

2169
02:51:05,680 --> 02:51:05,820
Yes.

2170
02:51:06,260 --> 02:51:06,760
Chairman Johnson.

2171
02:51:07,160 --> 02:51:07,200
Aye.

2172
02:51:09,280 --> 02:51:10,120
Thank you.

2173
02:51:11,340 --> 02:51:15,880
Do we have any action items?

2174
02:51:19,630 --> 02:51:21,350
Do we have any other items on the agenda?

2175
02:51:22,930 --> 02:51:25,330
No, just the last split that was on your agenda,

2176
02:51:25,510 --> 02:51:26,570
that was withdrawn by the app.

2177
02:51:27,410 --> 02:51:29,110
And then to the plan moving forward with that

2178
02:51:29,110 --> 02:51:31,510
is to have a work session in June to talk about it.

2179
02:51:31,510 --> 02:51:33,490
And thank God for my ability to have dinner tonight

2180
02:51:33,490 --> 02:51:34,810
that it was what you wanted.

2181
02:51:35,210 --> 02:51:36,190
Right, I know.

2182
02:51:36,630 --> 02:51:37,290
Almost eight o'clock.

2183
02:51:38,090 --> 02:51:49,710
Let me take the opportunity under board comments to thank Vice Chairman Bornstein for his six years of service to this board and for a number of those years as chairman of this board.

2184
02:51:50,430 --> 02:51:53,670
I just sincerely appreciate your work and dedication.

2185
02:51:54,410 --> 02:51:56,530
We certainly invite you to the work session later this month.

2186
02:51:57,170 --> 02:51:57,770
Thank you very much.

2187
02:51:59,070 --> 02:52:01,710
Hopefully there will be somebody else that can.

2188
02:52:01,890 --> 02:52:03,350
Will we hope to see you in the future?

2189
02:52:03,350 --> 02:52:05,350
I'll second that one.

2190
02:52:07,130 --> 02:52:07,910
Okay, we return.

2191
02:52:08,210 --> 02:52:08,390
Yeah.

2192
02:52:08,870 --> 02:52:09,770
Thank you.