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Okay. Good morning, everybody. The meeting of the Historic Preservation Board of the City of Winter Park for Wednesday, September 9th, 2026. I'll come to order. For the benefit of the audience, let me begin by stating the purpose of the Historic Preservation Board is to review and make a recommendation on all historic property designations and amendments to the historic preservation ordinance and consider certificates of review for alterations and additions which affect the historic character of designated properties in the City of Winter Park.

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The format of the meeting will be as follows.

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The chair will announce each public hearing item

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as it appears on the agenda.

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Agendas are available at the door.

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Staff will begin by making a presentation on each item

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to provide the staff's recommendation.

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Next, we will hear from the applicant.

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After that, the floor will be open to anyone

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who wishes to speak in support or opposition to the request

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or for anyone who has questions concerning the item.

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Please approach the podium and state your name and address.

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After all public input, we will close the public hearing,

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and there will be a discussion among the board members.

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Any appeal of our decisions is made to the City Commission.

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All electronic devices are to be silenced

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during this public hearing.

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The first item of business on the agenda this morning

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is the approval of the May 13th, 2026 meeting minutes.

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comments? Are there any public comments on the minutes?

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Do I have a motion on them?

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I move to approve those minutes. All in

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favor? Yes. Yes.

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You're going to ask

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us.

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I get so nervous with the audience full. Yes, so now you need to do the

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election of the chair and vice chair. Okay, so we should make a nomination,

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get a second person accepts the nomination and then you vote. Gotcha. So I'd

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like to nominate Kelsey Wolf for their second.

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And Kelsey are you online? Yep.

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Can you hear me?

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Yes.

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Now again.

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Do you accept the nominees?

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I accept.

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Okay.

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Yes.

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All right.

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Now we'll take a role.

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I do honored.

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Okay.

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Now we'll take a role call.

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Okay.

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Ms. Norris?

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Yes.

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Ms. Mooney?

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Yes.

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Ms. Bridges?

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Yes.

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Mr. Delaney?

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I think he's online.

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Yes.

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Yes, Ms. Wolfe.

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Yes, Mrs. Colfield.

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Yes.

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And I would like to nominate Rhett Delaney for Vice-Chair.

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Second that.

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Rhett, do you accept?

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Yes, and I thank you.

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Ms. Mooney?

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Yes.

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Ms. Norris?

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Yes.

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Ms. Bridges?

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Yes.

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Ms. Wolfe?

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Yes.

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Yes. Mr. Delaney?

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No objection, please.

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Mr. Scolfield.

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Yes.

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Okay. Now this will be a little bit interesting since our chair is not present but I think

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next we just need to call public comments for items not on the agenda. There's no one registered.

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All right, then we'll move on to the public hearings.

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First I need to think you need to applaud how fast we've gone from point A to point P to

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That is very true.

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It's 905 and we already have a chair and a vice chair.

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It's all out of respect for you.

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All the people in the audience.

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OK, so you have one public hearing either on your agenda.

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It's a request by the Winner Park Day Nursery for approval

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to construct a 1,025 square foot single story edition

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in the rear of their existing building

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at 741 Self-Pensalvania Avenue, which

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within the College Quarter Historic District and is owned R2.

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So this is before you today since it's in the historic district and

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they are adding onto their property to familiarize you.

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Here's a location right off Pennsylvania there near the railroad tracks.

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Part of this redo of their property includes an additional piece that was added to their holdings.

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and 2025, that little silver land next to the railroad track, that is going to be some

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additional parking, not relevant to your view, but in terms of adding additional square

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footage, it gives them additional parking for the additional classrooms they're adding.

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So, as I mentioned, single-story addition in the rear there, with the arrow pointing to

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the location of the addition, and R2, the rear setback is 10 feet.

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they are encouraging into that setback so they are requesting

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a variance for that addition along with the added thousand square feet they

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also are doing some interior modifications so the whole scope of work is just

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over two thousand square feet and it's a accommodate additional classrooms and

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bathrooms, conference space and storage, this expansion will accommodate

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additional 18 children but as I mentioned since the addition of that parcel to

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the north they're also adding 14 parking spaces to help accommodate the

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additional children they can now have enrolled. So here's a floor plan you could

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see the existing spaces that they're renovating down here with the added space

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along the back in this area.

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This show is the added parking spaces along the

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railroad track piece here, and then also some rework their existing parking lot

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here to gain a few more parking spaces. So they are adding, like I mentioned,

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14 for a total of 35 spaces for the whole property. Then really what you're here

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to review is the architectural components of the project.

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So it's existing flat roof, concrete block, single story,

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facility.

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They're doing the same thing along the back.

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So continuing the same material is the same look, the same height,

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the same everything along the rear.

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Just zoomed in on the install, new doors,

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in Windows to match existing, same paint, to match existing, so everything is to match existing.

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This is just a view from the south side zoomed in, and then the only condition that staff

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is recommending, they do have some rooftop equipment that's not screened. So while they're doing

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this work, staff is recommending that that rooftop equipment be screened since you can see it from

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the right of way. Otherwise the materials and proposal is consistent with what they have

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today and staff recommendations for approval. And with that I'll take any questions aboard

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my half-for-staff.

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Are there specific variances that I missed on this

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that they want? Just a rear setback. Just the setback. Okay, right. In the back. No, I understand.

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I just wanted to see one clear. Any comments from the rear neighbors I assume?

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No, they had a community meeting because any expansions to a day nursery like this requires to go to the planning and zoning board and city commission.

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So part of that approval process requires a community meeting that they held last month, and I think they had a few people in attendance, but it was mostly questions about how they're going to handle traffic, pick up, drop off and just more inquiries about what their expansions include.

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I'm not thinking about architecture or concerns.

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Anybody else?

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Yeah, they are here if you have questions.

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Go ahead.

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Good morning.

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I'm Allie DeMaria.

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I'm the executive director of the Winter Park Day Nursery.

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I've been there 21 years.

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I've been the executive director for the past 14.

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I have with me Natalie Lamb from David Lamb and Co.

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Who's our builder that's working with us.

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Thank you, general contractor.

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What can I answer for you?

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I had a couple of questions about you're adding more children.

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And I wanted to make sure that this addition does not encroach on the outdoor play space

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for those children.

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How do you make the allowance for an additional 18 children to play outside?

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That's a really good question.

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The added classrooms are intended for infants, toddlers, and twos.

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So we're adding very small children.

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Our playgrounds, we have been incredibly lucky to have the space that we have, and the

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playground that we're taking most space from is our infant toddler playground, which was

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just renovated two years ago, three years ago now.

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And there is way too much space, little children get lost in crevices.

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So we're actually still well within our licensing requirement for 45 square foot per person,

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per child outside space, as well as the 35 square foot per child in source space.

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So there's still plenty of space out there and we're actually keeping it safer by getting rid of some of the corners that they can hide in.

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The other question I had for you was the parking that you're doing along the rear, that staff parking I presume?

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Correct.

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Would you be adverse to or maybe you're already using the gravel parking as opposed to the solid concrete or is it going to be?

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Is it going to be a geogrid material, and it will be permeable?

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Okay.

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So we can have kind of a crushed gravel in the geogrid.

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It's very for drainage, or they could choose to have grass with the geogrid.

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Okay.

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Because one of the biggest concerns that we're all facing here is concrete and drainage.

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and winter park all over is experiencing, you know, problems with that and hold and Pennsylvania and all we have issues.

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So I do want to make sure that that is permeable, whatever surface you use.

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Yes.

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Especially since it's staff parking.

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Yes.

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Good point.

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With the city, we worked with them and they prefer to be geo-grid material as well.

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So we're going to move forward with that.

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I'm happy with that.

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those were my two questions. I don't have any questions.

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So I want to make a couple of

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comments that are kind of unrelated to this for I'll take the privilege as a

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departing chair. I'll go in chair. Have you ever known me to talk to

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my? So there's some aspects of this that are near and dear to my heart and I'm

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part of this was I just retired earlier this year and I'm 66 years old and I've

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been around one apart since the 1960s and I've watched these things. So one of

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one of the most exciting, the biggest thing that I've satisfying to me is I've had young

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people next to me as I've become more mature and wiser and these things. So, you appear

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young, you may be 45 years old with a young face, but you appear very young. So, the best

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thing you can do is be next to other people who have been around the block, been at a place

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like this and sophisticated, so learn all you can, which is awesome. Okay. Secondly, my mom

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I'm a dad who passed away a long time ago.

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My mom, they came down from up north.

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My dad's the Harvard lawyer.

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My mom was a social worker.

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And so she was on the board of the colored day nursery

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when they proposed changing the name to the well-burned day

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nursery.

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And I believe, correct me, if I'm wrong,

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that the well-burned day nursery was the colored day nursery.

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And you were the white day nurse.

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And stuff.

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So it's a fascinating history.

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And I've got a connection to that a little bit

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with my family, and to a lot of the colored issues

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because I had a very challenging household,

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but the black maid was our stability, right?

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She was the rock when things got chaotic.

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And so there's a lot of psychiatrists

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who'd have a field day with it and stuff.

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And so the final picture is, as I get older,

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is that investments are weird, right?

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I put a little bit of money into an IRA.

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I've done my, for many years,

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I wish I did more when I was younger.

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and those are long-term investments.

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Everything now seems to be two to four years, right?

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So when you help a three-year-old,

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that will really help society in 20 years.

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What a crazy investment, like, I mean,

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we don't even have 20-year bonds, right?

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It's like it's crazy investment,

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but it's so critical to the future of the world.

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So I really appreciate your work.

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I have no expertise in it whatsoever,

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But I do know that a kid who has a troubled life as an adult versus a kid that has a stable

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life as an adult is a massive difference to society.

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That's why we do what we do.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I appreciate that.

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Thanks.

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She's great in.

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Good.

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Thank you.

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So that's my little soap box.

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Thanks.

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Thank you.

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Appreciate that.

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Thank you all.

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I'm not chair now.

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Yeah, you're not chair.

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Kelsey can't read the room.

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So now take public comments, we did not have anyone register it.

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Now, is anyone willing to entertain a motion? Alison, go get us. Motion to approve.

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Second.

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Ms. Bridges? Yes. Oh, wait, do we get a second? Yes. Okay, sorry. Ms. Norris? Yes. Ms. Mooney? Yes.

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Yes. Mr. Skolfield? Yes. Vice Chair Delaney? Yes. Chair Wolfe. Yes.

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Now we'll move on to your non-action item.

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Okay, so we have here today the potential future

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applicant to discuss a demolition of the existing home at 726 Maryland Avenue, which is in

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College Quarter, oriented you to where this property is located, just one property off the corner

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of Holt and Maryland Avenue. Here's an aerial image of the house. You can see the lovely blue

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tarp on the roof. Here's the front view of the home, so it was built in 1938. So a few years after the

247
00:16:25,310 --> 00:16:32,930
The main college quarter neighborhood was constructed in the 20s and it has identified

248
00:16:32,930 --> 00:16:38,850
in the college quarter district that it's a contributing structure noted the architectural

249
00:16:38,850 --> 00:16:42,030
style is craftsman slash eclectic.

250
00:16:43,170 --> 00:16:51,250
I think it's made architectural features that it has are the log cabin siding on it as you

251
00:16:51,250 --> 00:16:57,350
here and he's zoomed in pictures. I don't think it's been kept up to the greatest

252
00:16:57,350 --> 00:17:04,150
condition. You can see the rot and all of the roof failure because of the blue

253
00:17:04,150 --> 00:17:10,050
tarp on it as well as the rotted sighting. Ron Scarpa here can explain more about

254
00:17:10,050 --> 00:17:14,210
what he's experienced throughout the house but these are the pictures of it from

255
00:17:14,210 --> 00:17:23,150
the outside. So what he's going to talk to you about today is demoing it and then plans

256
00:17:23,150 --> 00:17:29,910
for what do you replace it with, two options on the left and right overlay there on the

257
00:17:29,910 --> 00:17:37,030
survey. So the left kind of keeps the same format where there's the garage in the driveway

258
00:17:37,030 --> 00:17:44,050
way where you can see the cars from the front, the right side view where the ADU and garage

259
00:17:44,050 --> 00:17:50,010
and the rear is staff's preference because it then hides the cars instead of the cars

260
00:17:50,010 --> 00:17:55,290
being prominent in the front, puts them in the rear and then gives the opportunity of

261
00:17:55,290 --> 00:18:00,930
both options to have more of a front porch design which you see throughout the college quarter

262
00:18:01,730 --> 00:18:07,330
district. Here's some of their design, inspiration, images of what they like to

263
00:18:07,330 --> 00:18:13,050
replace the house with. So without stealing too much of his thunder, I'll let him

264
00:18:13,050 --> 00:18:18,610
explain. I love it more about the house and the plans, but then I take the

265
00:18:18,610 --> 00:18:21,110
opportunity if you have any questions for staff before I turn it over.

266
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:25,680
Would

267
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:32,580
variances be required for? We haven't gotten that far. So right now like I mentioned

268
00:18:32,580 --> 00:18:34,860
to just discussion item preliminary,

269
00:18:35,260 --> 00:18:37,000
no votes are being taken today.

270
00:18:37,220 --> 00:18:39,560
It's just kind of gauging the board's thoughts

271
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,600
on potential demo and rebuild.

272
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,380
I'm not sure that he's even gotten that far on variances,

273
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,500
but I think the house is set pretty far back.

274
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,280
So I think pulling it forward would be a variance,

275
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,600
just because our setback rules are,

276
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:00,640
has to stay where the existing house is.

277
00:19:01,740 --> 00:19:07,400
So, I think that might be the one, you could see here the red and the blue lines are in

278
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:13,060
front of the darker underline lines underneath that, so there probably will be a front

279
00:19:13,060 --> 00:19:18,440
setback variance and potentially some rear with the ADUs, but that hasn't been finalized

280
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:18,660
yet.

281
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:19,680
I'm interested.

282
00:19:34,420 --> 00:19:35,040
Good morning.

283
00:19:36,180 --> 00:19:36,880
I'm Ron Skarp.

284
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,800
I live at 767 McIntyre Avenue.

285
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:48,180
I went to Allison and John and Nick with this project a while ago, and I've actually had

286
00:19:48,180 --> 00:19:49,220
it under contract.

287
00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:53,860
A lot of you know John Frees, he's the current owner.

288
00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,080
It's in an interesting condition.

289
00:20:00,380 --> 00:20:05,020
It looks like a log cabin, but it's actually log cabin sighting.

290
00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:09,420
I have more detailed pictures that I could provide for you.

291
00:20:09,420 --> 00:20:11,940
It's in bad shape.

292
00:20:12,260 --> 00:20:16,340
I mean, it's been covered and tarped for three or four years.

293
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:19,020
It actually needs to be recovered and tarped.

294
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,400
The tarps weren't out on there.

295
00:20:21,740 --> 00:20:23,400
It's, I

296
00:20:25,610 --> 00:20:27,350
know it's part of college quarter.

297
00:20:28,010 --> 00:20:32,670
The, we would like to do something completely different there.

298
00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:37,710
I have, I know from Allison's, the slide presentation,

299
00:20:37,710 --> 00:20:39,410
we gave her a couple of options.

300
00:20:40,010 --> 00:20:41,190
It's an interesting lot.

301
00:20:41,190 --> 00:20:51,030
it's very narrow. So to do even the rear garage, which we can do, it just makes it very difficult

302
00:20:51,030 --> 00:21:00,710
in terms of even driving back there in terms of car and winds up minimizing the front facade

303
00:21:00,710 --> 00:21:07,910
of the property. I'm just trying to figure it out. It's 45 feet in the front of the property.

304
00:21:08,990 --> 00:21:23,570
When I met with staff, the front, they told me the front setback is 25 feet ordinarily on that street, but the property sitting at I think 43 back.

305
00:21:24,270 --> 00:21:29,590
And in order to utilize it, I put a schematic up, Alison, can I go back?

306
00:21:30,730 --> 00:21:37,630
So, this was nothing more than just putting boxes over the survey of the existing house

307
00:21:37,630 --> 00:21:45,030
and trying to figure out how to make it work and I have an appetite for both of those.

308
00:21:45,810 --> 00:21:56,890
I can make something very nice using both diagrams really getting out of the garage in

309
00:21:56,890 --> 00:22:03,610
the back is a little bit of a challenge and one of my initial thoughts was doing like

310
00:22:03,610 --> 00:22:10,690
the story in a half house up front and that way it has some presence on the street.

311
00:22:11,310 --> 00:22:14,250
There's a beautiful home next to us.

312
00:22:14,410 --> 00:22:21,220
It was a Z property's little, now that's like three down.

313
00:22:22,460 --> 00:22:29,720
So right next to me is a little thousand square foot property that change hand several times.

314
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,380
A current owner takes a macular care of it.

315
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:38,340
On the corner to the north of me is the corner of Maryland and Holt.

316
00:22:39,060 --> 00:22:45,360
It's a rental property, but it's a super cute cottage, you know, it's yellow and very pretty.

317
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:50,040
It needs, I feel like it needs something like that on the property.

318
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:56,260
And I know we put some inspiration images or nothing more than inspiration.

319
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:03,380
I think my goal was be to come to you, one, find out if I could tear the house down and

320
00:23:03,380 --> 00:23:09,240
then work, talk to the neighbors and come up with a design and a concept.

321
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:19,120
So if Allison says I need a variance to pull forward, even though the property next to me is everything's more forward than me.

322
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,860
But if that requires a variance, I would apply for a variance.

323
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:28,220
It would probably also do a variance if we did a garage in the back of the house.

324
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:36,360
Because it's so narrow, it would in order to get into it, it would need to be close to the property line.

325
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:45,900
Now the yellow cute yellow house next to me, the garage currently there is very like a foot or two from the property line.

326
00:23:46,060 --> 00:23:49,740
I haven't surveyed it yet, but it's super close.

327
00:23:50,040 --> 00:24:02,280
And then on the farthest back of my property, Jay Geyser has a triplex, and I don't know, I think everyone knows Jay.

328
00:24:03,260 --> 00:24:05,340
I've already talked to him about it.

329
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,140
He's on board.

330
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,940
He's got a couple of properties he wants to do ADUs and other things.

331
00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:19,020
So he's pretty easygoing and that property has, it's a triplex for college students.

332
00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:20,340
So he doesn't really.

333
00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:28,920
He's interested but doesn't have a strong opinion, not allowing something like that to happen.

334
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:34,120
The other guy, and I haven't spoken to him because I wanted to speak to you guys first.

335
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:40,520
There's no sense in rattling the hornets nest until, you know, we have a little bit

336
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,760
of an idea of what we think you guys are comfortable doing.

337
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,520
That's really the premise of this conversation.

338
00:24:50,540 --> 00:24:56,540
Since the siding is just that, just siding, long siding, what is the actual construction

339
00:24:56,540 --> 00:24:57,000
in the house?

340
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:58,060
Is it frame?

341
00:24:58,640 --> 00:24:59,360
It's all frame.

342
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:05,180
Okay, it's it's like I when I walked it originally Margie. I kicked a

343
00:25:05,980 --> 00:25:09,760
Bering corner the one that has the net one that yeah, I

344
00:25:10,300 --> 00:25:19,300
kicked that and put my foot it like literally into the house. There's a lot of he said termites and I think they treated it along

345
00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:21,020
He tented it a long time

346
00:25:21,020 --> 00:25:25,960
He's sprayed some stuff that he got at home to evo on it.

347
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:27,820
Raid won't kill the firm.

348
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,780
He said he's treated it.

349
00:25:30,260 --> 00:25:33,420
It's an environment for, it's a good environment for bugs.

350
00:25:33,780 --> 00:25:38,940
In the back, it doesn't really show it much, but on his survey, it does.

351
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:46,380
Like, if you look on the county website, it's got a single bedroom ADU with a kitchen,

352
00:25:46,380 --> 00:25:53,340
which is it's all very cute but it's just like falling down like the home like

353
00:25:53,340 --> 00:25:58,400
I originally talked with my wife about trying to manage the fireplace or

354
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:04,980
saving some element of that house. I don't know it just depends what you allow

355
00:26:04,980 --> 00:26:12,720
me to do. There's not a lot savable there in terms of structure I think as you

356
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:18,800
If you and I'd be happy for you to tour it, I could make arrangements with their owner, but it's it's pretty

357
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:25,340
The back the back property is eaten up the front property is

358
00:26:26,220 --> 00:26:31,040
You know partially eaten as you get up higher up the walls it gets a little bit better

359
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,440
There's even some pecky cypress on the ceiling. That's nice

360
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,260
But the rest of it's just

361
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,620
Just wouldn't it W. D. O's

362
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:48,140
Yeah, I mean, you we could save some components, but it's it's in it's in bad shape.

363
00:26:49,580 --> 00:26:57,240
So I'm asking you one what I think I know what you'd like to see there.

364
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:06,120
I just don't know in in what it's an R2 property, I mean, basically for sure the garage

365
00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:12,380
would be an ask if we're pushing the garage back there as a setback probably five and five

366
00:27:12,380 --> 00:27:21,260
on the setbacks for the garage. That would allow some sort of courtyard to back out of it,

367
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:26,800
if that's what you wanted. If you front loaded, you can pull the house forward.

368
00:27:27,460 --> 00:27:33,040
It might look more traditional. There's garages on that street and a lot of them.

369
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:34,820
it doesn't mean you want more of them.

370
00:27:35,940 --> 00:27:40,120
But it might give the only thing a front load garage

371
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:46,860
would do there would be giving the property more yard

372
00:27:47,660 --> 00:27:50,480
in terms of how you could fix the,

373
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,400
I know nobody knows more about long driveways

374
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,420
than Margie and John, and all of us, we have them.

375
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,840
So you still have some back out issues

376
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:10,580
that you have to deal with, you do, and not have trucks. So this lot, if you love me,

377
00:28:10,780 --> 00:28:10,980
sorry,

378
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:13,980
Kelsey, is that you?

379
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:21,400
I just was just going to give my two cents, but if you got more, you want to go into?

380
00:28:21,980 --> 00:28:25,740
No, I'm okay. We could just keep talking about something.

381
00:28:25,740 --> 00:28:41,080
I mean, but I mean, still a little putting the cart before the horse talking about the garage, but since I guess we have to come to the conclusion that it's we're okay with it being demolished, which it does not look in good condition.

382
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:50,480
And I don't know that it adds much to the neighborhood at this point, but the garage point for me is I would not like to see a front loading.

383
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:57,000
I think that whatever variances needed the garage to be in the back like a

384
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:03,600
like an old carat house type thing. So yeah, I just feel like the front loading

385
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:08,040
garage would have worked for that neighborhood or that era. So that's just what

386
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:13,700
I wanted to put in there real quick. I have a question for you and that is I

387
00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:19,320
agree. I agree with Kelsey that the front garage just would not be

388
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:25,700
appropriate and I really really don't want to say I don't want to see the

389
00:29:25,700 --> 00:29:32,260
house torn down but I recognize that years and years of neglect have brought us

390
00:29:32,260 --> 00:29:38,200
to this point and it always was really a weird little house the placement of it

391
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,780
was weird the lot size of it is weird there's nothing conforming and even though

392
00:29:42,780 --> 00:29:47,800
it is a contributing element and I don't want to start going down that slippery

393
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:56,320
slow. I don't think I wouldn't have an objection to you in your hands taking care of this, but my

394
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,980
My question to you really would be, um...

395
00:30:00,340 --> 00:30:30,280
And I know you're skilled at this. How many square feet would an R2 lot allow you to build versus an R1A lot? On a 45 foot wide lot? 2100 square feet. And is that what you were showing us? Both of those are roughly 22,000 square feet, 2100? Approximately, but there, as a reference, those are boxes. And my plan, so you know, if you

396
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:37,520
did, for example, if you're doing a garage, you probably need 480 to 500 square feet.

397
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,020
That's like, I think minimum for a garage.

398
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,100
That gets one car in your bike.

399
00:30:43,060 --> 00:30:46,660
I'll see 400 square foot garage is 20 by 20 and people don't work.

400
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:47,740
They don't work.

401
00:30:48,140 --> 00:30:49,040
Yeah, they don't.

402
00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:49,700
But it's okay.

403
00:30:52,100 --> 00:31:00,260
So on this property in order to like even magically get that the square footage, they

404
00:31:00,260 --> 00:31:04,020
you'd probably, you did a 500 square foot garage,

405
00:31:04,020 --> 00:31:06,320
we'd probably do something above that.

406
00:31:06,620 --> 00:31:09,460
500 square foot for the carriage house,

407
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,960
and then you have the ability to put the rest

408
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,220
in the front house, and in the front house,

409
00:31:15,420 --> 00:31:16,740
what you would, what we would,

410
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,420
I have, like I love the yellow house next to me,

411
00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:23,440
I think it's adorable.

412
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,740
I think the carriage house concept

413
00:31:25,740 --> 00:31:27,920
were totally comfortable with that.

414
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:33,080
But it's not as easy, but it doesn't matter, it's not necessarily about easy.

415
00:31:34,580 --> 00:31:44,220
And then you just try to create some sort of appeal to the neighborhood, to the porch,

416
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:45,460
make something nice.

417
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:52,600
I don't know, you know, when elevated, something's still slightly elevated, but cottagey, you

418
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,260
know, elevated in terms of stepping up to a porch.

419
00:31:55,900 --> 00:32:01,020
like most of the old houses, because they were all on crawl spaces and everything else.

420
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:07,800
And then in order to do it, you'd probably do the story in a half to try to get some sort

421
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:16,920
of interest in the, because you're not going to get it all, you would bust the FAR if you

422
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,940
stayed all single story there.

423
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,420
You have to kind of do something upstairs.

424
00:32:21,420 --> 00:32:24,520
There's like two, like a master bedroom downstairs

425
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,440
and two small bedrooms upstairs in the other house.

426
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,340
Something like that.

427
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,100
That's the configuration.

428
00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:34,140
And I can agree with that because I think

429
00:32:34,140 --> 00:32:36,720
that's what society and the neighborhood.

430
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:44,460
I mean, we do need more homes that have primary bedroom

431
00:32:44,460 --> 00:32:45,560
on the first floor.

432
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:47,380
I know.

433
00:32:49,900 --> 00:32:56,480
When we were 30, we didn't understand why that was important, but as we get older it's

434
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:56,700
true.

435
00:32:57,220 --> 00:33:03,780
The things that I know that you could manage, because I've seen your work, I would like

436
00:33:03,780 --> 00:33:06,600
to see personally, I'd like to see it come forward.

437
00:33:06,740 --> 00:33:11,920
I think that's appropriate even for the street, and you have the land space to do that.

438
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:19,160
My big concerns would be a porch would be wonderful. I don't want to see a front

439
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:26,440
loading garage put that at the back, but I don't know how you do this, but in your

440
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:32,780
design I would hate to see and we've had several of them in our

441
00:33:32,780 --> 00:33:40,760
neighborhood because of small narrow lots. Please don't make it so that it becomes

442
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:45,440
such a, you know, four-point turn to get in and out of the garage.

443
00:33:45,980 --> 00:33:52,520
You know, I don't, if you need a variance to go right almost to the property line or whatever to make that happen,

444
00:33:52,820 --> 00:33:59,520
leave as much usable and permeable, you know,

445
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:07,340
carport garage area, you know, turn around courtyard, whatever pavers, whatever would be appropriate.

446
00:34:07,340 --> 00:34:34,260
I just think that it is a little cottage and that's what's going to disappear, but you have the capability to reproduce, not reproduce that, but to produce something that is much like the neighbors next door, and that proved that number one, it's marketable, you know, and that's what's always been the big discussion, well, you know, but with the fine finishes that I know you've provided in your homes.

447
00:34:34,260 --> 00:34:38,140
the neighborhood supports that financially.

448
00:34:38,220 --> 00:34:43,940
I think it's ready for, I think it's ready to do something new there.

449
00:34:44,660 --> 00:34:52,980
And by new it should be something that's almost recreated in authentic to the neighborhood.

450
00:34:53,240 --> 00:34:56,600
And you know, we've been through these meetings several times.

451
00:34:56,860 --> 00:35:02,080
There's a lot of options to do things, but there I'm not thinking Spanish,

452
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,900
I'm not thinking I'm thinking kind of cottage there and I think it kind of

453
00:35:06,900 --> 00:35:11,940
belongs there. It almost had what I saw just in terms of that image of the you

454
00:35:11,940 --> 00:35:16,920
know just the concepts almost had kind of a key west cottage yeah feeling to it

455
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:22,240
and I thought that was appealing because some of the cottages that we have are

456
00:35:22,980 --> 00:35:27,040
kind of like that clavoured siding and that kind of thing and I think that

457
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,460
would fit very nicely without unless you paint it paint or something you know

458
00:35:31,460 --> 00:35:35,180
of it. Well, jump in, John.

459
00:35:39,220 --> 00:35:46,000
He's already forgot. Okay, so a few things, so big picture on

460
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:51,260
everything, right? So there's, with Marywood and everything, there's a big buzz and there's

461
00:35:51,260 --> 00:35:57,400
a lot of push, you know, that we're not, you, we're getting too invasive and we're property

462
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,780
rights and we're keeping people from doing their stuff, you know? And so people are squawking

463
00:36:01,780 --> 00:36:02,920
and about stuff for what it's worth.

464
00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:04,900
But when it comes to a demoing at house

465
00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:07,140
and I've restored gazillion houses,

466
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,180
there's different levels, right?

467
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,100
So the sagaluses is one.

468
00:36:12,260 --> 00:36:15,020
That was a soil issue we allowed tear down.

469
00:36:16,140 --> 00:36:18,900
Carson's could have been brought around on Victoria,

470
00:36:19,100 --> 00:36:21,460
very likely, but we allowed that.

471
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:22,600
It's an attractive house.

472
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,180
Our board member here designed it

473
00:36:25,180 --> 00:36:27,640
and it's pretty for the neighborhood.

474
00:36:28,940 --> 00:36:37,260
Marywood is been claimed by architects and the applicants that it is just a mess and has to be torn down.

475
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,940
It's the polar opposite of this, right? Marywood is a strong house.

476
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:49,160
This is a mess and I think it needs to be gone down. I'm fully supported and I think it's right for the community, it's right for the city, it's right for everything.

477
00:36:49,340 --> 00:36:53,080
So I think that personally needs to be done and I think that's the first hurdle, right?

478
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,880
You've got to get approval to do that before you can even move forward.

479
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,460
The design things come back to us so we can work with that.

480
00:36:59,940 --> 00:37:06,620
When it comes to variances, I think it helps our image as to what HPB does to be able

481
00:37:06,620 --> 00:37:09,440
to be very giving on that.

482
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,380
So we need to be able to tell people who say, oh my God, you're restricting it.

483
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:15,600
I can't even paint my house.

484
00:37:15,940 --> 00:37:19,220
We need to say, oh, by the way, what he could have built was this.

485
00:37:19,220 --> 00:37:24,280
Yes, but since it's a historic preservation board, we allow this, this, this, and this.

486
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,080
And in that application, I'm fully, I would not support a front load garage.

487
00:37:29,260 --> 00:37:30,860
I get that it makes logical sense.

488
00:37:30,860 --> 00:37:31,600
I just want some work.

489
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:32,140
It's easy.

490
00:37:32,540 --> 00:37:37,400
It's easy because the aesthetics are destroyed to me of the look that we want to achieve.

491
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:43,060
So I would, you're dealing with a very big challenge, 45 by one, 125 lots of tiny lot.

492
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,700
However, I think you can mitigate that challenge sum by a few things.

493
00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:52,720
one if we can allow pulling it as far forward as it looks acceptable to the

494
00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:55,940
neighborhood, right? It might be 25 feet. Maybe that could be 20 feet or something.

495
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,880
Maybe you could play with that. Secondly, you know, I mean, I don't

496
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,240
not sure what happens in that five feet, but that's not like usable space on the

497
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:09,840
ADU and the garage. And so if there wasn't an objection from your neighbors, and

498
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:15,760
that was squeezed down to three, and we had the right to approve that, I think that

499
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,140
That could help with the backing up.

500
00:38:18,660 --> 00:38:23,520
And then, mandate anybody that moves into the house has one of those minis, a little car.

501
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,340
You're not allowed to do that, John.

502
00:38:28,780 --> 00:38:30,500
So that's the challenge, right?

503
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:34,640
If you have an excursion, that becomes a big challenge.

504
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,320
If you have my size car, no big deal, that's, I mean, I joke, it's all ingest.

505
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,940
But if you just do everything you can, help out with that.

506
00:38:42,940 --> 00:38:47,880
And then on height, you know, I hate slab on grade for a traditional house, but, you know,

507
00:38:48,020 --> 00:38:50,480
stem wall slab on grade, but, you know, 8 or 10 inches up.

508
00:38:51,180 --> 00:38:55,840
Don't go 10 foot on the first sealings, go 9 foot, you know, second 4, go 8 foot.

509
00:38:56,340 --> 00:38:59,060
There's some tricks on second 4 to keep them massing down.

510
00:38:59,180 --> 00:39:01,640
You can go 7 foot posting in cathedral.

511
00:39:01,900 --> 00:39:04,560
Now you're 10 in the peak, 7 on the side.

512
00:39:04,820 --> 00:39:06,440
You got the massing under control.

513
00:39:06,580 --> 00:39:07,520
You know all these tricks.

514
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:15,000
And then, and finally, let me comment that we as a board could be dealing with a very

515
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,360
new builder who doesn't know what they're doing, who brings us a stacked white boxes that

516
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,680
we fight and fight and fight and back and forth and back and forth and back and forth.

517
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,340
And that would be a real pain for an neighborhood.

518
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:31,400
So ungrateful as hell that you and your wife work these aesthetics through the college quarter

519
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:37,220
because I feel like we're not having to buck butt heads with people who don't get it,

520
00:39:37,220 --> 00:39:45,480
Right. Oh, we love the quarter. I mean, I own a house one, two, three houses from this currently and I

521
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:52,300
I'm gonna do something to it. I'm still we've talked about it, and it just hasn't happened and

522
00:39:53,420 --> 00:39:54,460
it it

523
00:39:55,020 --> 00:39:59,740
Between the little house next to me and then the one on the other side of

524
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:09,460
772 Maryland that's the copper door house and I know that was a that's been an

525
00:40:09,460 --> 00:40:14,600
example for various things but it's still aesthetically nice look yeah and I

526
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:19,480
mean we have like three-story buildings across the street that are like

527
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:24,860
look like towers but nothing and it's a little bit different subject but the the

528
00:40:24,860 --> 00:40:28,780
big push that oh my god it's gonna destroy your value the realtors of the

529
00:40:28,780 --> 00:40:33,380
world drew, who don't think like this, but are saying it's destroying your value.

530
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:39,400
Drew and I and Zillow and everybody felt like Wendy's house was worth right at a million.

531
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:45,000
It's a tiny freaking lot and it's old happy, can't be worth more than a million and it's

532
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,300
over 1.5 or whatever.

533
00:40:46,820 --> 00:40:47,960
And why is that?

534
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,400
Because somebody with enough money said, I want a house here, show me everything you've

535
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,660
got and there ain't nothing that's good and livable.

536
00:40:55,660 --> 00:41:02,540
And so they paid a high premium, I think, because it was in a historic neighborhood in

537
00:41:02,540 --> 00:41:02,760
part.

538
00:41:03,180 --> 00:41:07,220
Maybe it's because it's just near Rollins, but I think all of the above.

539
00:41:07,860 --> 00:41:10,400
But what isn't near Rollins in the neighborhood?

540
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:15,360
Anybody who squawks about it's killing value needs to think, oh my god, Zillow, everybody

541
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,860
thought 1 million, and it sells for 1.5, so it's not killing value, you know?

542
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:20,340
No, it's not.

543
00:41:20,340 --> 00:41:26,540
And the quality of the construction, no names mentioned here, but the quality of the new

544
00:41:26,540 --> 00:41:35,400
construction has been extraordinarily high and improves the neighborhood and provides

545
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:43,820
that value that everyone is looking for, but also by maintaining standards of a historic

546
00:41:43,820 --> 00:41:49,620
district it protects everyone else and all the water rises all boats so to speak

547
00:41:49,620 --> 00:41:54,120
and there you go. I want to praise lately and I thought for sure it was going to be

548
00:41:54,120 --> 00:42:06,540
1.1. John, it's a prize. You heard Drew's feelings, John. No, I'm very

549
00:42:06,540 --> 00:42:13,780
comfortable with a rear garage. I hear you about the setbacks. I will talk to

550
00:42:13,780 --> 00:42:19,860
I will start talking. I'll start kind of another concept of like a more

551
00:42:19,860 --> 00:42:25,200
finished idea of what we can put there now rather than front-low garage or

552
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,040
whatever, just something. You need to know what it can't get torn down first

553
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,940
then we have to do that. Correct. And then because I don't want to like talk to the

554
00:42:30,940 --> 00:42:36,360
neighbors and their first thing like the one guy that worked for I think his

555
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:37,120
His name is Ian.

556
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,260
I don't know who owns the cute corner, old historic home.

557
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:48,380
The person next to them, they kind of rebuilt their house, and I think it was the E2 guy,

558
00:42:49,660 --> 00:42:50,160
and his...

559
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:50,480
Rob Smith.

560
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:51,780
Ian maybe.

561
00:42:52,100 --> 00:42:53,020
Ian is the...

562
00:42:53,020 --> 00:42:53,900
Was a superman.

563
00:42:54,260 --> 00:42:54,500
Okay.

564
00:42:55,000 --> 00:43:00,140
But anyway, I've talked to him several times, but not about this, but I'm going to.

565
00:43:00,580 --> 00:43:01,600
I've talked to Jay.

566
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,700
I need to talk to the people to the south of me.

567
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:11,340
And if you look at where their house and their porches to the south on this drawing and

568
00:43:11,340 --> 00:43:17,460
where the other cottage is, I don't know if I can, I can't do any hero on this.

569
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:24,560
But if you look at the, what would be the yellow house to the immediate north?

570
00:43:25,420 --> 00:43:27,040
That's said back so far.

571
00:43:28,100 --> 00:43:28,780
Look at that.

572
00:43:29,700 --> 00:43:38,920
So, this house is the cute yellow house on hold, and this would be, I guess, their side

573
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:45,840
set back because at the front of the house is hold, and then this house is here and this

574
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:46,300
house is here.

575
00:43:46,300 --> 00:43:51,040
Well, if you drew a line from those two houses, you just outlined, and yours was relatively

576
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,740
an open porch, but basically in that area, that could allow you to fatten up a little backup

577
00:43:55,740 --> 00:43:56,620
drive situation.

578
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:57,820
That would help a lot.

579
00:43:57,820 --> 00:44:08,220
Yeah, yeah, I just don't I haven't I haven't put this on CAD and figured out exactly where that number is and if it's

580
00:44:08,220 --> 00:44:16,300
25 or 23 or what what that number is, but that would be so the intent would be we'll figure out how to put something in the back

581
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:22,740
Pull everything forward do the story in a half or at least have a

582
00:44:22,740 --> 00:44:27,500
like the porch and maybe front of house have a little bit of a single story

583
00:44:27,500 --> 00:44:31,640
presence and then it can climb a little bit to the back like we always

584
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:37,120
wind up doing so this front elevation and massing at the street seems more

585
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:37,720
appropriate.

586
00:44:39,870 --> 00:44:44,630
I like the scale of that because because of the cottages that are so

587
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:49,450
close to you it keeps that massing and that scaling in proportion with the

588
00:44:49,450 --> 00:44:53,070
rest of the neighborhood yet you get the square footage that you want and

589
00:44:53,070 --> 00:44:59,970
It's so weird because even a walk back there to look around it's very hard to do if you look it's

590
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:29,860
That's kind of a jungle. You don't even see back here. You can't even see the ADU. That's back here currently. Right. And then the neighbor right here has bamboo. And that's a little bump out. That's like a little two foot bump out in the survey. It's weird. I don't know why anyone even did that. But it's the uniqueness of the property. And then the other properties directly

591
00:45:29,860 --> 00:45:34,240
behind me are big and they have landscaping but everyone has an opinion we'll

592
00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:41,580
have to figure it out. Are there any sababal trees on that lot? And by

593
00:45:41,580 --> 00:45:48,020
sababal I mean quality you know the bamboo is I don't want to see. I think

594
00:45:48,020 --> 00:45:56,060
the warrant front is a nice one. This one might be something yeah it's an oak it

595
00:45:56,060 --> 00:45:57,260
might be in the right away.

596
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:03,140
There's a lot of, I don't know what's a live oak tree,

597
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,260
I don't know what's a laurel oak.

598
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,060
If I looked at it and identified it,

599
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:08,500
I can do that in a survey.

600
00:46:10,460 --> 00:46:13,500
That's just another thing I think would be helpful to,

601
00:46:14,540 --> 00:46:16,520
you know, I drive around Winter Park, you do too.

602
00:46:17,220 --> 00:46:19,560
I see so many scraped lots

603
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,940
and Winter Park never used to allow that

604
00:46:23,540 --> 00:46:25,780
and now everything just gets scraped

605
00:46:25,780 --> 00:46:28,720
And all I would ask you is to be sensitive to that,

606
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,520
because it improves our air quality,

607
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:33,400
it improves water retention,

608
00:46:33,620 --> 00:46:36,720
it improves so much wherever you've got a decent tree

609
00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:37,920
that you can work with.

610
00:46:38,100 --> 00:46:39,640
If that's a live oak tree in the front,

611
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,240
it's definitely worth saving.

612
00:46:41,460 --> 00:46:44,420
Even a younger laurel oak would be worth saving.

613
00:46:45,340 --> 00:46:48,000
I don't think we have any water oaks left at this point,

614
00:46:48,020 --> 00:46:48,840
too many hurricanes.

615
00:46:49,300 --> 00:46:51,560
But the laurels, you know.

616
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:53,380
Well, it's a little bit of a jungle,

617
00:46:53,380 --> 00:47:02,180
but once we have an opportunity to get in there and I'll reconfigure something and I'll talk to you about the process of what to do next.

618
00:47:02,820 --> 00:47:05,700
So, so, Rhett, do you have any questions or comments?

619
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:16,490
No, I have been going everywhere on the head. My apologies for not being there. I caught a bug while I was away and I don't want to get anyone sick.

620
00:47:16,490 --> 00:47:21,750
So I sell like a munderwater because I'm terribly stuffed up.

621
00:47:22,010 --> 00:47:24,810
But anyway, you know, 100% agree.

622
00:47:25,450 --> 00:47:28,370
Obviously, you know, we've seen the wrongs work in the past

623
00:47:28,370 --> 00:47:30,030
and how it takes great care of things.

624
00:47:30,310 --> 00:47:32,550
So we have all the confidence in the world

625
00:47:32,550 --> 00:47:35,270
and have been doing right by the neighborhood.

626
00:47:36,650 --> 00:47:41,150
I don't believe there's any other log cabins

627
00:47:41,150 --> 00:47:42,470
in the college quarters, that right?

628
00:47:42,830 --> 00:47:43,070
Right.

629
00:47:43,550 --> 00:47:44,230
No, there are.

630
00:47:44,230 --> 00:48:12,150
And one of its long spasad more than actually being a Lincoln long house, but I do agree with try to keep the scale the home in relation to not doing the tenor plus foot ceilings and keep in the trying to keep that front porch.

631
00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:15,750
You know, they would look to everything, you know, with the garage toward the back.

632
00:48:16,730 --> 00:48:25,610
So yeah, no, I mean, this particular home, you know, we, of course, you know, our goal is to save as many historical homes as possible.

633
00:48:26,170 --> 00:48:37,770
And, but also we have to be practical and realize that, you know, every once in a while, one comes across our desk that, yeah, that's not quite what we're looking for.

634
00:48:37,770 --> 00:49:07,410
when we were talking about the historic charm of winter parks so you know like I said you know like with Margie on the you know make sure if there's any trees we're saving you know make sure you know they had a little water retention and drain the toes things just make sure they don't affect the neighbors but all of all I think what is going to be put there is way more valuable to the neighborhood than what is there currently.

635
00:49:08,630 --> 00:49:09,750
That sounds good.

636
00:49:10,030 --> 00:49:11,850
Kelsey, do you have anything to offer?

637
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:18,080
No, I think I said my piece.

638
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:23,660
You guys hit all of the other notes regarding, you know,

639
00:49:24,260 --> 00:49:27,620
being given as far as the seriousness that we do, definitely,

640
00:49:27,780 --> 00:49:30,520
I think could be very open and helpful.

641
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,140
The team effort and a good example of what we can accomplish

642
00:49:35,140 --> 00:49:36,060
when we work together.

643
00:49:38,060 --> 00:49:38,540
100%.

644
00:49:38,540 --> 00:49:39,460
I agree with that.

645
00:49:39,460 --> 00:49:40,920
that's the whole idea.

646
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:42,380
I think Cindy.

647
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:48,640
I think yeah, I, you know, the home really doesn't have much

648
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:54,620
saviable and I think if we demanded that it needed to be

649
00:49:54,620 --> 00:49:59,340
saved, it would be really hard to bring it up to code

650
00:49:59,340 --> 00:50:04,440
to make it livable and sellable.

651
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:18,620
So I think what you're proposing and the inspiration photos you put out there I think would be a great, you know, addition to the neighborhood.

652
00:50:19,380 --> 00:50:20,360
Thank you.

653
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:27,050
I would second most of what everybody said.

654
00:50:27,330 --> 00:50:30,410
I am very familiar with your work.

655
00:50:30,990 --> 00:50:40,930
I've seen the little house on Melrose that you did and the landscaping in the front and stuff is absolutely lovely.

656
00:50:41,650 --> 00:50:50,010
And so I would be for whatever you want to put on that lot that conforms to the remarks people made today.

657
00:50:50,010 --> 00:50:51,310
Thank you.

658
00:50:53,570 --> 00:50:56,930
Appreciate it, guys. I'll come back with something a little more.

659
00:50:57,050 --> 00:50:58,370
We have a motion usable.

660
00:50:58,510 --> 00:50:59,290
Or is it just a decision?

661
00:50:59,330 --> 00:51:01,050
Yeah, it's just an odd action item.

662
00:51:01,050 --> 00:51:04,570
Just wanted to gauge your feelings on what he's planning.

663
00:51:04,890 --> 00:51:08,170
And so now what he moves forward with the design.

664
00:51:09,090 --> 00:51:14,130
I think it would probably best if you approve the demo and the design together more than likely.

665
00:51:14,330 --> 00:51:18,190
But what we can talk about, they come in pieces or together.

666
00:51:18,190 --> 00:51:18,250
Okay.

667
00:51:19,010 --> 00:51:22,350
What I've heard is from everybody is, you know,

668
00:51:22,630 --> 00:51:24,450
everybody's gonna be supportive of demo.

669
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:26,910
So I think it'll be, I think it'll be,

670
00:51:27,070 --> 00:51:30,490
I mean, like I said, I own something on that property.

671
00:51:30,770 --> 00:51:32,870
I think this is gonna be nicer than that.

672
00:51:33,270 --> 00:51:35,910
I'm, it's an opportunity.

673
00:51:36,250 --> 00:51:37,510
We'll do something great there.

674
00:51:37,610 --> 00:51:37,970
It'll be fun.

675
00:51:38,370 --> 00:51:40,190
Like Kelsey said, we'll work together

676
00:51:40,190 --> 00:51:43,250
and get where we need to get and everyone get comfortable.

677
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:44,890
Thank you.

678
00:51:45,110 --> 00:51:45,750
Thank you guys.

679
00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:46,470
Just to see what you come up with.

680
00:51:46,470 --> 00:51:46,590
Yes.

681
00:51:47,030 --> 00:51:48,250
It will be interesting.

682
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:48,970
Thank you, Ron.

683
00:51:49,210 --> 00:51:49,410
Thanks.

684
00:51:52,510 --> 00:51:53,070
All right.

685
00:51:53,290 --> 00:51:56,870
So now we need to move on to our action item.

686
00:52:08,890 --> 00:52:09,050
All right.

687
00:52:09,310 --> 00:52:16,310
So we have a joint work session with the commission scheduled for September 24th.

688
00:52:16,730 --> 00:52:19,750
You should have all gone the calendar invites for that.

689
00:52:20,610 --> 00:52:23,390
I think I've heard from Margie and John.

690
00:52:23,390 --> 00:52:25,110
They won't be able to make that meeting.

691
00:52:25,110 --> 00:52:31,570
but and Cindy, Rhett, Kelsey, will you guys be able to make that September 24th meeting?

692
00:52:33,130 --> 00:52:34,130
Yes, from me.

693
00:52:36,500 --> 00:52:40,320
I'm still working on babysitter, but I am definitely trying. Okay.

694
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:49,780
Let me check. We're quick. The 24th is a Thursday. What time is it for?

695
00:52:49,780 --> 00:52:50,880
3.30?

696
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:54,480
Just both of that.

697
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:57,920
Yes,

698
00:53:02,720 --> 00:53:03,800
I should be able to make it work.

699
00:53:04,540 --> 00:53:06,080
And I should be able to.

700
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:07,840
I can get back to you later today.

701
00:53:08,300 --> 00:53:10,580
Okay. If you can't be there,

702
00:53:10,660 --> 00:53:12,500
I think there's an accommodation we can make

703
00:53:12,500 --> 00:53:13,600
that you can call in.

704
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,200
So if you need that, just send me an email.

705
00:53:17,740 --> 00:53:19,980
I can be available.

706
00:53:20,100 --> 00:53:20,960
Call in. I'll be on.

707
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:21,820
Okay, all right, since-

708
00:53:21,820 --> 00:53:23,640
Say I'll vote with Starlink, but-

709
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:24,960
Okay, all right.

710
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:30,340
Okay, so what we need to do today is I wanna finalize a list

711
00:53:30,340 --> 00:53:33,400
of the topics we're gonna be talking to the commission about.

712
00:53:33,580 --> 00:53:35,580
So I'd like to get a consensus on all of it.

713
00:53:36,020 --> 00:53:38,500
We mostly got a consensus at the last meeting,

714
00:53:38,500 --> 00:53:39,960
but it was a work session.

715
00:53:40,100 --> 00:53:43,860
So I'd like to actually take action on what the board feels

716
00:53:43,860 --> 00:53:46,440
comfortable with bringing forward to the commission.

717
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:55,100
At the joint work session, the commission won't make, you know, we won't actually be voting on a code change or anything like that.

718
00:53:55,200 --> 00:54:00,540
It's just more of, again, another direction of what the commission is comfortable with and then we can work on the code.

719
00:54:00,780 --> 00:54:04,020
So I think we got consensus on this.

720
00:54:05,100 --> 00:54:05,820
Can I hear someone?

721
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:08,760
Oh, Kelsey, did you,

722
00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:12,280
no, okay.

723
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:20,040
I'm going to touch my head, but I'll just go over it again.

724
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:27,220
We have on the Orange County Property Prizes website, we've worked with them to add after

725
00:54:27,220 --> 00:54:35,160
the zoning district designation and H after properties that are actually designated individually

726
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:39,640
on our Monopark Register or are in historic district.

727
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:46,780
So this would be another idea to get the word out on potential historic properties.

728
00:54:47,420 --> 00:54:59,080
So adding that PHP after the zoning district, and that would be the list that our consultant is working on right now of our listed in potential historic properties.

729
00:54:59,740 --> 00:55:08,860
So a great example would be Marywood and the 250 Virginia or the most recent ones that came before us.

730
00:55:08,860 --> 00:55:14,400
Those would, before a sale were to happen with those properties on the zoning district,

731
00:55:14,580 --> 00:55:24,740
on property appraisers that then get sent to MLS, which is where the database where all properties are listed to be sold.

732
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:29,300
It would have that on there so that they know that it's a potential historic property.

733
00:55:29,540 --> 00:55:32,120
And it begs the question, well, what does this PHP mean?

734
00:55:32,380 --> 00:55:36,080
And it can start the conversation earlier potentially in the process.

735
00:55:40,020 --> 00:55:50,560
Next, I think we have a general consensus that the board likes the idea of reducing our potentially removing some of the requirements for historic designations.

736
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:55,680
But I don't know that we've actually come up with which of those bullet points we actually want to do.

737
00:55:56,040 --> 00:56:03,740
But for just a historic designation, we require mailers to be sent out to everybody within 500 feet.

738
00:56:03,740 --> 00:56:14,980
We require ad in the paper to be posted before the meetings, and we require a sign to be posted in the yard.

739
00:56:16,020 --> 00:56:26,480
So this, we also don't charge for these historic designation applications because we want to entice people to do it, so we don't want to put money factors, a potential block to it.

740
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:30,460
So it costs the city money to send out those notices,

741
00:56:31,020 --> 00:56:33,320
send cost money to put ads in the paper.

742
00:56:34,100 --> 00:56:43,320
In a journal one of those, I'd probably say it costs about the city $800, give or take, to do that type of notice.

743
00:56:45,780 --> 00:56:47,560
And it also takes time.

744
00:56:47,820 --> 00:56:53,100
If we didn't have to do the ad in the paper, we didn't have to do the mailing notice.

745
00:56:53,100 --> 00:56:59,840
If potentially all we did was a yard sign here we could get someone on the agenda a week after they asked for it

746
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,540
And is anybody we're seeing an ad in the paper?

747
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:04,940
Yeah, it's yeah

748
00:57:04,940 --> 00:57:11,600
You have to look in the in the classified section. There's there's the public notice section, which all

749
00:57:13,140 --> 00:57:20,260
People do actually because you know, we've been questioned, you know, what is this? I saw this or you know check sales

750
00:57:20,260 --> 00:57:22,540
There must be five people reading the paper

751
00:57:23,100 --> 00:57:27,020
I mean, what paper is that?

752
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:28,860
Is that Orlando Sentinel or what are you using?

753
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,380
Yes, yes, that's what we're doing all about, yeah.

754
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:33,620
Yeah, okay, and it's a little bit cheaper

755
00:57:34,620 --> 00:57:36,440
for the city to do it on Sundays,

756
00:57:36,940 --> 00:57:38,540
so that's what we do the months on days.

757
00:57:38,700 --> 00:57:41,180
Yeah, save the money, because budgets be coming in big deals

758
00:57:41,180 --> 00:57:42,660
so we gotta address all those things.

759
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,120
Yeah, but are you sorry?

760
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:51,100
Is there any way to do like a survey to have people submit,

761
00:57:51,100 --> 00:57:54,680
like, you know, just, you know, I mean, is by law, you have to do it through physical,

762
00:57:54,880 --> 00:58:00,380
you know, like, you know, physical form, or is there a way we could start trying to, you

763
00:58:00,380 --> 00:58:04,680
know, collect data to get everyone, you know, the community's email address, so if we get

764
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:11,620
extra money, email us for the residences that it qualifies as a proper notice, just, you know,

765
00:58:12,060 --> 00:58:17,660
let's say that might be when we reach more people rather than, you know, I don't know how many people

766
00:58:17,660 --> 00:58:19,040
We'll really read this that bill anymore.

767
00:58:19,780 --> 00:58:21,860
Yeah, it's mostly the letters and the mail

768
00:58:21,860 --> 00:58:23,460
that people get their notice from

769
00:58:23,460 --> 00:58:24,920
and the sign and the yard.

770
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:27,520
I'd say the sign and the yard is probably the biggest one

771
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:29,700
that people know something's happening

772
00:58:30,180 --> 00:58:31,540
because it just catches your eye.

773
00:58:31,580 --> 00:58:32,740
Like what does that sign say?

774
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:36,140
And then one in the, in your mailbox.

775
00:58:38,900 --> 00:58:42,500
So it's in the point that you want your immediate neighbors

776
00:58:42,500 --> 00:58:43,260
to know.

777
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,760
Right, that's the hard part on individual designations

778
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:48,580
Is there anywhere in the city?

779
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:55,780
It'd be one thing if it was near college quarter, you probably have a higher chance of getting college quarter residents, email addresses.

780
00:58:56,140 --> 00:59:02,240
But when someone's designating in an area that maybe doesn't have a bunch of historic properties around it,

781
00:59:02,700 --> 00:59:04,940
it could be hard to get emails.

782
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:13,660
But I think to support leaving it up to you and staff to find ways like you've done, to cut costs, but still make sure neighbors know what's going on.

783
00:59:13,660 --> 00:59:21,580
time and cost. Yeah. Yeah. I think we all agree on that and some of the now outdated, you know,

784
00:59:21,620 --> 00:59:26,120
it used to be everyone read the newspaper so everyone would see that, you know, you published

785
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:31,840
something but those days are gone. But yeah. Now, do we put anything? Do we use our city website,

786
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:37,120
you know, Facebook and all those things that we use for the city? Do you ever publish any?

787
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:43,220
Would you ever consider publishing a notice there? No, we try to keep public notice

788
00:59:43,660 --> 00:59:46,780
like that off other than directed people to our boards

789
00:59:46,780 --> 00:59:47,940
and meetings page.

790
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:52,560
And so we have links on social media for that

791
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:54,060
to direct people to the city website.

792
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:58,420
But we don't typically put public hearing information

793
00:59:58,420 --> 00:59:59,660
on Facebook.

794
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:29,780
You know, what doors that could open on comments and things like that. So we keep it on our boards and meetings page. Okay, but there's no other electronic type connection that we could use to do that, though. No, I mean, other than emails, but, you know, there's a lot of people that are signing up for our city and news emails, but we're not sure, I'm not sure if we track which one is a resident or, you know, where exactly they live. I think it's just to sign up and give your email. Okay. It's not, you know,

795
01:00:29,780 --> 01:00:34,260
Because the radius is within 500 feet of each property that would be designating.

796
01:00:34,540 --> 01:00:38,340
So then you'd have to find out who's email is within 500 feet of that house.

797
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:40,100
Sounds like more work.

798
01:00:40,340 --> 01:00:41,180
Yeah, I don't know.

799
01:00:41,300 --> 01:00:43,080
The idea is to reduce the work of the house.

800
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:49,760
Exactly, that's why I think the art sign is probably the most notifier.

801
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:50,160
Yes.

802
01:00:51,860 --> 01:00:56,820
So I mean, if there's consensus, I can remove some of those other bullet points and

803
01:00:56,820 --> 01:01:04,220
I would just say reduce the nosing requirements for just a yard sign a week or 15 days or something.

804
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:14,240
But I think it would be nice if we had some sort of an easily understandable sign.

805
01:01:14,380 --> 01:01:19,040
In other words, something that really says historic preservation or something rather than just,

806
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:23,780
you know, the typical signs that you have to stop and read and see what the variance is for,

807
01:01:23,780 --> 01:01:31,360
or whatever, if there was some sort of a uniform sign from the city so that people got

808
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:36,240
used to seeing that that was going to be a historic preservation, you know, a historic

809
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:37,860
potential designation.

810
01:01:38,740 --> 01:01:42,980
You know, that might be something that would be beneficial to us as well because people

811
01:01:42,980 --> 01:01:47,440
would see, oh, that's a historic, potential historic property, that's what they're looking

812
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:48,640
to do something with that.

813
01:01:49,260 --> 01:01:58,140
And yeah, so right now we have one sign that we ordered that you can check the box for planning and zoning or historic preservation.

814
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:13,520
And then we have another one that's yellow that we use for variances, so we have to check with our vendor to see if there's a potential option of, you know, one of their color, but some other color.

815
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:16,980
and then modify our order on planning and zoning.

816
01:02:17,220 --> 01:02:19,280
And there's something that we could potentially look into.

817
01:02:21,810 --> 01:02:23,870
Okay. I think it'd be easy.

818
01:02:24,030 --> 01:02:25,570
It'd be good if it was something

819
01:02:25,570 --> 01:02:28,370
that really was easily identified that way.

820
01:02:28,550 --> 01:02:32,530
Yeah. Separate from planning and zoning or...

821
01:02:32,530 --> 01:02:33,470
Right. Like a different color.

822
01:02:33,810 --> 01:02:35,610
Yeah. Or demo permit or whatever.

823
01:02:35,610 --> 01:02:37,210
Yeah. We have to check on one of their options.

824
01:02:37,210 --> 01:02:38,710
There are other than white and yellow.

825
01:02:39,350 --> 01:02:40,670
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

826
01:02:40,670 --> 01:02:43,690
Okay, so I think we have consensus on that.

827
01:02:46,470 --> 01:02:50,290
Next is a public information campaign.

828
01:02:50,850 --> 01:02:56,770
So send out a survey to residents that are on that potential historic list.

829
01:02:57,090 --> 01:03:02,450
So again, this would come after the our consultant finishes the historic resources survey update.

830
01:03:03,270 --> 01:03:05,590
And we'd ask them these questions.

831
01:03:05,590 --> 01:03:11,310
Why have you not placed your home that is eligible for the historic designation on the register?

832
01:03:11,850 --> 01:03:16,390
And then what could this board propose to motivate you to place your home on the registry?

833
01:03:17,090 --> 01:03:23,290
And then we'd give them the current incentives and benefits to historic designation as well.

834
01:03:23,450 --> 01:03:26,930
So it's an information piece that they know what those incentives are.

835
01:03:27,070 --> 01:03:30,330
And also hopefully we can gain some insight why haven't they?

836
01:03:30,330 --> 01:03:38,690
That will be a very helpful but critical to be drafted in such way because there's this

837
01:03:38,690 --> 01:03:45,790
such an air that strong army you to designate your house is historic is the taking of

838
01:03:45,790 --> 01:03:53,390
government from a blah blah blah blah and it has to be very gentle and then very clear

839
01:03:53,390 --> 01:03:58,070
on the advantages because I think that's what's all missed in the mix right and you know you

840
01:03:58,070 --> 01:04:02,110
you can XYZ and I know you guys staff in any communication department does an excellent

841
01:04:02,110 --> 01:04:02,450
job.

842
01:04:03,010 --> 01:04:03,130
Yeah.

843
01:04:03,570 --> 01:04:03,730
Yeah.

844
01:04:04,410 --> 01:04:09,830
I would agree with that, especially that first question, why have you not placed your

845
01:04:09,830 --> 01:04:10,190
home?

846
01:04:11,070 --> 01:04:11,870
Is it very judgmental?

847
01:04:12,810 --> 01:04:12,830
That's all that.

848
01:04:13,470 --> 01:04:13,990
I guess.

849
01:04:14,190 --> 01:04:14,730
I'm sorry.

850
01:04:14,910 --> 01:04:15,050
Yeah.

851
01:04:15,250 --> 01:04:20,010
The last time I finalized, it's just the idea out there.

852
01:04:20,270 --> 01:04:20,390
Yeah.

853
01:04:20,590 --> 01:04:20,890
I know.

854
01:04:20,890 --> 01:04:21,090
I know.

855
01:04:21,090 --> 01:04:21,770
Other stupid people.

856
01:04:22,810 --> 01:04:23,770
What's wrong with you?

857
01:04:25,810 --> 01:04:29,950
Okay, we got consensus on that one.

858
01:04:30,910 --> 01:04:34,930
Okay, same thing on this, the list of insurance companies and

859
01:04:34,930 --> 01:04:42,410
contractors that work on historic homes, we want to make sure that we're not saying that we endorse or

860
01:04:42,410 --> 01:04:47,870
recommend these companies, which is just ones that we see in our city that are local that do work on the homes.

861
01:04:47,870 --> 01:04:54,850
That gets that gets a little tricky and the insurance company things Rhett can weigh in on that, but you know

862
01:04:55,630 --> 01:05:02,130
You basically have agents who I do this with my boat to there's generic boat insurance companies

863
01:05:02,130 --> 01:05:05,770
But there's others that are very creative. They know how to ensure old boats and stuff like this

864
01:05:05,770 --> 01:05:11,010
And so there's probably agents and Rhett would know because the mortgage brokerage goes with us all the time

865
01:05:11,010 --> 01:05:13,430
You know go ahead Rhett

866
01:05:14,110 --> 01:05:16,570
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's there's a few out there better

867
01:05:18,270 --> 01:05:25,870
Yeah, you really gotta go to independent brokers that can go shop everybody, you know, it's

868
01:05:25,870 --> 01:05:31,710
really hard, you know, go to the big box, you know, stay far, it was an off-state, you

869
01:05:31,710 --> 01:05:38,850
know, USAAA, you know, they've always given us trouble, but there's a lot of regional insurance

870
01:05:38,850 --> 01:05:46,050
companies that have more of an appetite to help, you know, insure our historicals.

871
01:05:47,590 --> 01:06:07,670
And I know it's tough when the city refers and I've got 30-some years of being a remodeling contractor in town and so I can't tell you how many people said, well the city told me they're not supposed to really say anybody, but you guys should be, you know, so the city and the building department is like we're not supposed to recommend anybody but go ahead and say you gotta be super careful with that.

872
01:06:07,670 --> 01:06:08,330
Yeah, for sure.

873
01:06:08,450 --> 01:06:11,030
I don't know how you navigate that, but it has to be aware.

874
01:06:11,110 --> 01:06:20,250
Well, potentially, don't you have an opportunity by saying something to the effect that not

875
01:06:20,250 --> 01:06:31,370
all insurance companies readily provide insurance to historic homes, however, we recommend that

876
01:06:31,370 --> 01:06:38,450
that you consider looking at mortgage brokers and insurance brokers, and in other

877
01:06:38,450 --> 01:06:42,650
words, a lot of people don't know that they're, you know, they just know about the

878
01:06:42,650 --> 01:06:45,190
three big insurance companies.

879
01:06:45,570 --> 01:06:52,430
And so if we could say, you know, as you're going, as you're exploring this, please consider

880
01:06:52,430 --> 01:06:56,730
also these insurance brokers that know how to navigate.

881
01:06:56,730 --> 01:07:02,610
state for instance, it can't be done, then now they trash the entire world of that where it could be created.

882
01:07:02,610 --> 01:07:10,230
Exactly. So I think that way you're not stepping on any toes, you're not even mentioning any names.

883
01:07:11,030 --> 01:07:16,830
You're educating. And I think that would be a helpful way to help people navigate that.

884
01:07:18,090 --> 01:07:23,550
And I'm not asking for any naming because I'm not even in my business anymore,

885
01:07:23,550 --> 01:07:29,450
anymore but the same way with remodeling contractors just specify that there are some contractors

886
01:07:30,070 --> 01:07:35,270
that specialize in doing this and then there are some that are mostly in new homes and stuff

887
01:07:35,270 --> 01:07:36,870
and just be aware of those differences.

888
01:07:37,310 --> 01:07:44,070
Well and and you might even to that point you might just say please be sure to educate yourself

889
01:07:44,070 --> 01:07:49,530
by looking at reviews and you know asking neighbors and you know that kind of saying I mean yeah

890
01:07:49,530 --> 01:07:51,830
Yeah, we can't, it's, it's a jelly case.

891
01:07:51,830 --> 01:07:52,510
Yeah, that's right.

892
01:07:52,970 --> 01:07:56,710
You know, it does not constitute an endorsement recommendation or guarantee.

893
01:07:56,730 --> 01:07:57,390
Right, right.

894
01:07:57,690 --> 01:08:01,150
I mean, those, those words have to be up front and it should be.

895
01:08:01,310 --> 01:08:05,790
But then when you have those words up front, we need to offer to Reds Point.

896
01:08:05,930 --> 01:08:08,890
There are people who know how to navigate those things.

897
01:08:09,110 --> 01:08:09,250
Right.

898
01:08:09,990 --> 01:08:14,470
But let them know who they contact, how they, how they find those people.

899
01:08:14,950 --> 01:08:15,090
Yeah.

900
01:08:15,710 --> 01:08:16,170
You know.

901
01:08:18,420 --> 01:08:18,760
Okay.

902
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:26,560
I got I got a list from the sort of preservation officer from the city of Orlando, so

903
01:08:28,140 --> 01:08:35,840
Yeah, you do it. So wouldn't winter park wouldn't be alone and making a list like that. Good point. Yeah, we're not

904
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:38,360
Okay, okay, so we can

905
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:43,860
Find what other people are doing and copy do what they do exactly

906
01:08:44,440 --> 01:08:46,080
That second point is

907
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:52,500
fascinating to me the next bullet yeah because I've heard people say 66% is a

908
01:08:52,500 --> 01:08:56,660
really tough hurdle you fought through that when you said gosh we did there's

909
01:08:56,660 --> 01:09:02,200
you know there's nothing else anywhere that's that high for a public vote yeah

910
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:07,780
you know that's just not democracy so to speak and the people who vote not the

911
01:09:07,780 --> 01:09:14,960
whole thing like you say right right so I mean this one might be beneficial if

912
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:19,100
If we don't come in with an idea that we just leave all of these bullet points on the table,

913
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:28,000
who 51% or 50% plus one, or 60% or removing the return vote, a non-return vote to no,

914
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:33,620
and kind of just have the conversation with the commission instead of going in with this is what we want.

915
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:37,780
I think just starting the conversation with, we'd like to take a look at this.

916
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:39,940
Here's some ideas.

917
01:09:39,940 --> 01:09:47,700
Yes, because you're sort of allowing them to have a little bit of ownership, but then yeah that we didn't come up with just one idea we have a bunch.

918
01:09:48,680 --> 01:10:02,700
Well, and I think it's probably highly unlikely that everybody on the commission or everybody who's looking at this would know that a that a not returned vote becomes a no vote.

919
01:10:02,700 --> 01:10:17,340
Yeah, I mean that is that's critical information, you know, so and I think that our commission should weigh in on that. I don't think that that's, you know, you can't do it that way when you're running for any other office.

920
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:21,920
You know, if somebody doesn't vote, that's a no vote against you.

921
01:10:21,980 --> 01:10:23,820
Yeah, it doesn't work that way.

922
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:24,760
Yeah, so.

923
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:29,980
Okay, so we'll keep all those and just start the conversation.

924
01:10:29,980 --> 01:10:40,140
Okay. Next, so we have our 90 demo delay for all the properties on their potential historic list.

925
01:10:41,020 --> 01:10:50,240
We discussed their work session last time of having the start date of that 90 days after we talk about it at HPB first.

926
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:54,780
So it's not, doesn't start the 90-day clock as soon as you apply for your demo.

927
01:10:54,780 --> 01:10:59,680
because you could apply for your demo and then have three weeks until I can get

928
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:04,320
you on an agenda depending on when you apply or a whole month if they were

929
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:08,880
applied today or tomorrow, let's say. So that it gives you a little bit more

930
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:12,760
time without actually making the 90 days longer.

931
01:11:13,580 --> 01:11:17,040
Well, of course, if you have a good healthy list, it's okay, but that could have

932
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:21,280
some unintended consequences, perhaps similar to like the what Ron brought

933
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:25,660
forward, you know, pretty likely that that will be approved to be demoed.

934
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:31,220
That's a different category, though, because this is 90, these are 90-day demo delays

935
01:11:31,220 --> 01:11:34,620
on properties like Marywood and 250 Virginia.

936
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:39,540
So, ones that aren't in a district and ones that aren't individually designated.

937
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:43,020
But they are qualified as if there's a list from the experts.

938
01:11:43,020 --> 01:11:44,220
Yes, they're on our potential.

939
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:48,280
So, they're not going to put something like the one we just looked at on the list,

940
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:50,220
probably, because they can, they'll see you.

941
01:11:50,220 --> 01:11:51,340
No, because it's already in the district.

942
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:54,720
Well, no, aside from that, if it wasn't in the district,

943
01:11:54,900 --> 01:11:56,740
it was the right age, but it was a piece of crap,

944
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:58,480
are they going to not put on the list?

945
01:11:58,920 --> 01:11:59,760
No, they're not going to.

946
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:02,180
Okay, so there's a filter, yes, okay.

947
01:12:02,380 --> 01:12:04,980
Yeah, this is like the properties that we wish

948
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:06,520
would be saved.

949
01:12:06,780 --> 01:12:07,500
Okay, gotcha.

950
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:14,580
And then also that we would require as part

951
01:12:14,580 --> 01:12:18,080
of that appearance before HPV

952
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:25,680
that there is, that the person asking to do the demo actually looks at evaluating

953
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:31,020
redevelopation, adaptive reuse, or incorporation into a new project, partial

954
01:12:31,020 --> 01:12:35,500
renovation, relocation, redesign, et cetera, that they look at alternatives,

955
01:12:36,020 --> 01:12:40,540
that they have to come to us, I've looked at X, Y, and Z, and here's why it doesn't work.

956
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:47,280
But it could be a structural report, you know, this is why, that they come to us with some sort of data,

957
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:51,960
Yeah, which I think is what we were looking for at the 250 Virginia discussion.

958
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:57,460
We all wanted to see that structural report, and we didn't have it, but maybe that could

959
01:12:57,460 --> 01:12:59,280
have helped foster the conversation.

960
01:12:59,920 --> 01:13:00,840
I think that's crucial.

961
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:01,360
Yes.

962
01:13:01,780 --> 01:13:07,900
And I do like this 90-day change because then we're not blindsided.

963
01:13:08,420 --> 01:13:08,900
Yeah.

964
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:09,800
Yeah.

965
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:12,260
You haven't already lost three weeks before it gets to you.

966
01:13:12,440 --> 01:13:13,080
Yeah, potentially.

967
01:13:13,080 --> 01:13:20,560
And then to have them come forward and say this is why this house cannot be saved.

968
01:13:21,300 --> 01:13:28,560
And that way we can make an educated vote on which direction we think it should go.

969
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:30,380
So I think that's crucial.

970
01:13:30,940 --> 01:13:34,620
And we require, you know, we're requiring them to come to the table with something.

971
01:13:35,140 --> 01:13:36,040
I thought about this.

972
01:13:39,180 --> 01:13:39,300
Okay.

973
01:13:41,930 --> 01:13:42,710
Let's see.

974
01:13:45,510 --> 01:13:47,130
I think I forgot one.

975
01:13:47,130 --> 01:13:52,390
permitting about. Yeah did I skip one? Thank you. Expected permitting for historic properties.

976
01:13:52,850 --> 01:13:58,210
We talked about this again last time. If you're historically designated in a district,

977
01:13:58,810 --> 01:14:03,610
you'd be moved to the top of the list. So instead of in the order received, we'd bump you up

978
01:14:03,610 --> 01:14:08,810
to the beginning. I think that's great because I mean, what a year's of doing this permitting

979
01:14:08,810 --> 01:14:13,690
used to be a lot quicker and a lot easier now. It's pretty long so that could be a big advantage for

980
01:14:13,690 --> 01:14:14,090
some people.

981
01:14:14,570 --> 01:14:14,630
Yep.

982
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:17,140
Okay.

983
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:23,740
And then I organized this into financial incentives, so I kind of reordered this list.

984
01:14:23,940 --> 01:14:25,360
We talked about this last time.

985
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:33,280
The transfer of development rights, so that's let's say you have a historic property and

986
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:39,840
you have 5% FAR left over, let's say it's, you know, 2,000 square feet and you're going

987
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:44,300
to say I'm not going to build that 2,000 square feet on my property and I'm going to transfer

988
01:14:44,300 --> 01:14:50,820
over it to a receiving property designated them on commercial quarters.

989
01:14:50,820 --> 01:14:53,680
Let's say Lee Road, Orlando Ave Fairbanks.

990
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:59,920
So I'm not going to build my 2,000 square feet here, but I'm going to transfer it over there and they can receive.

991
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:29,720
I believe another 5 or 10% affair bonus to, you know, instead of being able to build a 10,000 square foot building, they can build a 12,000 square foot building. And then there's the deed restrictions on both, you know, so that you can't keep taking 2000 here, 2000 there, 2000 there, and then you have a 100,000 square foot building, you know, there's going to be a cap on it. And same thing on your property. If you say you're not going to build on your single family home, that 2000 square feet,

992
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:36,080
Someone 10 years later will also know that 2,000 square feet can't be built there with the deed restriction.

993
01:15:36,540 --> 01:15:40,620
My question for you about that would be, I'm just a, I'm a regular homeowner.

994
01:15:41,100 --> 01:15:49,860
I'm going to buy a historic site and I want to, and I'm not going to utilize all the square footage that I could.

995
01:15:51,860 --> 01:15:58,460
How does the transfer of rights work if I don't own another property to transfer those

996
01:15:58,460 --> 01:16:04,340
developer rights to the agreement would be between you and the property owner of the

997
01:16:04,340 --> 01:16:05,980
commercial property on the road?

998
01:16:06,620 --> 01:16:08,940
So then you're providing that to the development.

999
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:10,840
I understand how it works.

1000
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:16,380
I'm just wondering if I'm just Susie Q and I'm moving to Winter Park and I'm going to

1001
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:30,880
So the property owners within the receiving areas would know that they're in a receiving area and they would only be interested in you if they had a project where they needed additional square footage that they wanted to purchase.

1002
01:16:31,500 --> 01:16:37,460
So they would be maintaining that that's what I was trying to get to, how people understand.

1003
01:16:37,540 --> 01:16:44,060
Okay, so we would know the properties that have availability and then we would know the properties that could receive that availability.

1004
01:16:44,060 --> 01:16:46,960
It seems unlikely to me that that would be utilized.

1005
01:16:47,140 --> 01:16:51,480
I don't know what exactly the dollar savings are, but I don't know if people are going to want to

1006
01:16:51,480 --> 01:16:55,920
encumber their possibilities to sell the property in the future and somebody go, I don't want bikes.

1007
01:16:56,060 --> 01:17:00,700
I can't build this MAC daddy, so I'm not buying it, or whatever I can't put a huge addition on it.

1008
01:17:01,380 --> 01:17:04,140
I'm not sure that it has legs, it would be interesting to see.

1009
01:17:04,140 --> 01:17:08,920
But I mean, it's something we could try out if there's something that commissions interested in,

1010
01:17:09,180 --> 01:17:14,900
but it could save like 250 Virginia, I probably had, I didn't do the math on it.

1011
01:17:14,980 --> 01:17:19,700
But I'm sure they had left over FAR, and the new owners, I can't make this-

1012
01:17:20,480 --> 01:17:21,900
I can't make this-

1013
01:17:21,900 --> 01:17:28,200
I can't make this renovation work, I'd really need some extra funds to be able to fix what's wrong with the house.

1014
01:17:28,220 --> 01:17:33,540
And I'm going to sell off this 2000s grid feed, I'm not going to build and that's going to help fund my renovation.

1015
01:17:33,540 --> 01:17:37,100
It all depends on the numbers.

1016
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:39,260
And it's a way, it all depends on what they're saying.

1017
01:17:39,260 --> 01:17:43,840
Them transacting the money where the city doesn't have to then come to the table with money,

1018
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:46,620
other than helping them facilitate the process.

1019
01:17:47,460 --> 01:17:55,300
If they sell that 2,000 square feet, is it like gone forever?

1020
01:17:55,860 --> 01:17:56,820
From that property, yes.

1021
01:17:57,240 --> 01:17:57,880
It can't be built on.

1022
01:17:58,460 --> 01:18:04,020
So if Mary would, you know, whoever the owner is, do we know?

1023
01:18:04,020 --> 01:18:14,080
no. Okay. Just the mystery owner has got a lot too far there. They probably have 49,000.

1024
01:18:14,340 --> 01:18:22,600
Oh yeah. I mean we're talking here limiting so. But still they could, couldn't they sell

1025
01:18:23,620 --> 01:18:30,540
10,000 to that guy? They're selling the right to build on. So if they could, they're selling far.

1026
01:18:30,540 --> 01:18:35,380
So, right, but not the actual land, but the right to build on it.

1027
01:18:35,580 --> 01:18:36,460
I understand that.

1028
01:18:37,100 --> 01:18:45,640
And it's what they're selling is I could have 53,000 square foot home on my land.

1029
01:18:45,900 --> 01:18:49,260
I'm obviously not going to build that, right?

1030
01:18:49,820 --> 01:18:52,200
Therefore, 30,000 square feet.

1031
01:18:52,980 --> 01:18:56,600
I can sell the transfer the development.

1032
01:18:56,600 --> 01:19:00,680
commercial development on Lee Road could say I really would like to build another thousand

1033
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:04,760
square feet of office building here and I can't do it because of the far but now I can

1034
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:05,740
pay these people.

1035
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:06,060
Yes.

1036
01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:06,500
Next dollars.

1037
01:19:06,620 --> 01:19:11,720
Now I don't know if that X dollars is $7,300 or $50,000 or I'm not sure how that would

1038
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:12,200
That's there.

1039
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:13,360
That's the market.

1040
01:19:15,180 --> 01:19:15,540
The market.

1041
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:16,280
Oh really?

1042
01:19:16,460 --> 01:19:17,140
They can negotiate.

1043
01:19:17,420 --> 01:19:17,580
Yeah.

1044
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:18,140
The market.

1045
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:18,360
Oh.

1046
01:19:18,740 --> 01:19:22,900
Then that could have legs because the people development on Lee Road could say it's worth a hundred

1047
01:19:22,900 --> 01:19:24,600
grant to me to be able to do that.

1048
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:26,220
Yeah, the city's out of that part.

1049
01:19:26,620 --> 01:19:27,740
Oh, okay, I'm sorry.

1050
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:30,220
We're just facilitating it, keeping track.

1051
01:19:30,380 --> 01:19:33,640
But then there would be a deed restriction

1052
01:19:34,700 --> 01:19:36,720
on the Marywood property.

1053
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:37,060
Exactly.

1054
01:19:37,860 --> 01:19:38,520
You know, right.

1055
01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:40,600
20 years from now, we know it's still there.

1056
01:19:41,140 --> 01:19:43,340
Well, and lots of people that use conservation,

1057
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:44,480
you know.

1058
01:19:44,480 --> 01:19:45,140
Yeah, it's common.

1059
01:19:45,580 --> 01:19:46,640
It's these things and things.

1060
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:50,760
There are other, this is not new, but what this does do

1061
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:59,640
is create potential dollar value to someone which is not in a conservation easement or anything like that.

1062
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:02,460
You're just making that decision and it goes forward.

1063
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:08,220
It's done by business partner Anthony has a place next to his property in the Trulio or wherever it is.

1064
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:18,520
I think there was like a 50 acre or 100 acre conservation easement somebody didn't understand totally but nobody could build on it because they've done that.

1065
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:26,360
There's a lawyer in town Ken Wright I think that involves this and now all of a sudden is a big developer in Orlando is able to do something more than he was able to otherwise.

1066
01:20:26,580 --> 01:20:28,480
So it's very common.

1067
01:20:29,980 --> 01:20:40,100
From that standpoint and it's usually done with larger developers that are trading land, you know, unbuildable land swamp land and things like that.

1068
01:20:40,260 --> 01:20:42,840
It's done that way larger throughout the state.

1069
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:50,460
But I think this has potential as a true benefit if it's framed correctly.

1070
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:52,160
You know, that people understand.

1071
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:59,540
Yeah, and guardrails on it, so it's not like we're going to be developing hundreds of thousands of square feet on our commercial quarters and it's going to get out of control.

1072
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:01,020
We have to set limits.

1073
01:21:01,480 --> 01:21:01,600
Right.

1074
01:21:02,020 --> 01:21:07,520
Has the City Attorney take that guy, Dan?

1075
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:09,180
Has he taken a look at this?

1076
01:21:09,220 --> 01:21:10,420
No, we haven't gotten that far.

1077
01:21:10,420 --> 01:21:19,740
I want to make sure this board likes the idea, the commission likes the idea, and then we'll get, you know, all the nitty gritty details for the rire now.

1078
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:21,020
I like the idea.

1079
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:22,220
Thanks.

1080
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:23,460
I do as well.

1081
01:21:24,260 --> 01:21:24,480
Yeah.

1082
01:21:25,220 --> 01:21:27,660
Okay, so we have consensus.

1083
01:21:28,780 --> 01:21:34,120
Obviously still a lot of ironing out to do with the details, but general idea, okay.

1084
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:46,780
Okay, then reduce permit fees by 1-3 for all historically designated properties so it still covers the city's costs on the permits, but reduces the fees.

1085
01:21:47,540 --> 01:21:49,320
I think we all have consensus on that.

1086
01:21:51,040 --> 01:22:04,020
Then, so we have tax exemptions for improvements that you can get, but our code is the maximum that the state allows us to do.

1087
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:10,760
But we do have another requirement that your house be open 40 hours a week to receive this incentive

1088
01:22:12,300 --> 01:22:13,400
To the public

1089
01:22:14,360 --> 01:22:18,020
So that means 40 hours a week anyone can knock on your door and say I want to tour your house

1090
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:24,540
So the idea is just to keep everything else the same because we have we have a great procedure in our code

1091
01:22:24,540 --> 01:22:28,640
It's just that it requires also to be open the 40 hours a week

1092
01:22:35,380 --> 01:22:36,640
I think we have consensus.

1093
01:22:36,880 --> 01:22:37,760
It's almost a personal problem.

1094
01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:44,140
Yeah, we have, I mean, the timing of this one isn't the best just because of tax reform.

1095
01:22:44,780 --> 01:22:52,840
So it would be removing another bit of taxes, but there's still a whole process again that you have to go into an agreement with the city commission.

1096
01:22:53,180 --> 01:22:55,880
The board has to, yeah, exactly.

1097
01:22:56,260 --> 01:22:57,980
So we'll see how this one goes.

1098
01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:01,320
It's going to probably require a bit of a discussion.

1099
01:23:02,300 --> 01:23:07,760
All right, then moving on to the two that I think we need to just discuss a little bit more.

1100
01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:12,720
Expanding the lot split policies and the comp plan.

1101
01:23:14,020 --> 01:23:22,700
So, we have one about, we used for 1290 North Park Avenue, which was a Gamble Rogers house on the lake.

1102
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:27,980
It was a unique property where it had the street frontage on the western side of the property.

1103
01:23:28,660 --> 01:23:50,360
And they were able to split it off where the front piece was a non-leg front lot that would otherwise be allowed in our code because it needed variances and it's a leg front lot that we just say no splitting of leg front lots, but we made the exception for lots like that where the new lot is not a leg front lot.

1104
01:23:51,120 --> 01:24:15,200
You know, we try to do this a bit with the Marywood property that you can't put it, you know, with guardrails on that it has to be a certain size and whatever else was added to that policy, but the main problem with these is that within 300 feet, you have to comply with the median lot area and lot width.

1105
01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:20,360
So typically for these historic potentially designated historic properties,

1106
01:24:21,260 --> 01:24:23,400
they don't comply with that 300 foot rule.

1107
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:28,880
But it would be adding another caveat that if you're going to designate the house,

1108
01:24:28,900 --> 01:24:33,020
you don't have to comply with that 300 foot comparison to your neighbors.

1109
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:38,940
So I think there's a little bit of mixed feelings on this one at the last meeting.

1110
01:24:39,220 --> 01:24:42,580
I just wanted to ask one more time before we finalize our list.

1111
01:24:42,580 --> 01:24:44,980
Do we want to expand this?

1112
01:24:45,160 --> 01:24:52,200
I mean, I mostly see it being used potentially in or in manner since that has a lot,

1113
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:59,420
you know, a mix of lot sizes in there and, you know, probably the next place that we could form a district.

1114
01:25:00,640 --> 01:25:10,240
And so if you're splitting the properties in there, more than likely your neighbors are not conforming to the R1A or

1115
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:11,460
one triple A standards.

1116
01:25:12,300 --> 01:25:17,240
And so then you're probably asking for a variance, but does it comply with the median?

1117
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:22,300
So that means you have to take everyone with 300 feet, look at how wide all those lots are.

1118
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:26,720
And if you don't line up with the property in the middle, you can't do it.

1119
01:25:33,810 --> 01:25:34,670
It's a reminder.

1120
01:25:35,050 --> 01:25:38,290
I'm sorry, does the Lake Wilbur application remember that one?

1121
01:25:38,290 --> 01:25:39,710
The same Williams did, does that?

1122
01:25:40,330 --> 01:25:49,690
Yep, so that one, I think we, that was before we changed our code to be more strict that if you don't comply with that median, you can't have it.

1123
01:25:50,130 --> 01:25:56,810
That was more of a judgment call on, look at the average, how close are you to the average?

1124
01:25:57,410 --> 01:26:05,170
Are you within 510 feet of the average width or 510% of the average lot area?

1125
01:26:05,170 --> 01:26:08,910
We're just getting a lot of pushback on lot splits.

1126
01:26:09,690 --> 01:26:19,630
So in 2023, we made the complaint policy stricter that if you're not at the median, then you can't apply.

1127
01:26:23,030 --> 01:26:25,850
You said you got pushback against lot splits?

1128
01:26:26,070 --> 01:26:30,070
Yeah, and it was never surrounding historically designated properties.

1129
01:26:30,830 --> 01:26:36,130
I feel like the community felt more comfortable with that because at least one of the houses they knew what they were getting.

1130
01:26:36,130 --> 01:26:41,970
It was more of the ones where you're scraping the whole lot and developing two new big houses.

1131
01:26:42,450 --> 01:26:45,750
And the community was opposed to that part, yeah, I think the same thing.

1132
01:26:45,750 --> 01:26:51,390
It's the ones like the World War I that got approved because of what we were gaining.

1133
01:26:51,670 --> 01:26:56,110
That historic home was being preserved in order to split the lot.

1134
01:26:56,770 --> 01:27:01,570
To help fund the renovation of the existing home, that's typically what these are used for.

1135
01:27:01,570 --> 01:27:08,430
In the 1290 North Park example, they didn't have the funds to renovate the house that was there.

1136
01:27:08,910 --> 01:27:14,490
Well, then they have the opportunity to sell off another lot, I don't know how much that lot's sold for, but

1137
01:27:15,610 --> 01:27:18,170
to help with the renovation cost.

1138
01:27:21,860 --> 01:27:27,140
So it wouldn't be opening up the door to anything other than if we're gaining historic resource.

1139
01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:28,620
That-

1140
01:27:28,620 --> 01:27:29,540
I think that's the point.

1141
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:30,960
Yeah, okay.

1142
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:38,760
Okay, so I mean it would be taking a larger lot and making it smaller, but you're keeping the house.

1143
01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:42,840
And that becomes the win-win, I suppose.

1144
01:27:43,420 --> 01:27:46,740
You know, I mean, yeah, otherwise it'll be at torn down probably.

1145
01:27:46,740 --> 01:27:49,540
It'll get torn down and that's what we keep running up against.

1146
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:52,180
That's the wall we keep hitting every time.

1147
01:27:52,340 --> 01:28:00,360
Yeah, we're dealing with one right now on Westchester in an ordinary manner that the house is on a larger lot that would

1148
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:04,020
We could comply with the R1A sizes.

1149
01:28:04,540 --> 01:28:06,160
So if they were to take the house down,

1150
01:28:07,060 --> 01:28:11,320
it's put the lot in the middle, it works for the R1A code.

1151
01:28:11,580 --> 01:28:14,880
But the house is situated right in that middle line point.

1152
01:28:15,460 --> 01:28:20,040
That if you were to split it, you'd have to take the house down to meet code.

1153
01:28:20,160 --> 01:28:23,060
But if they could expand this policy,

1154
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:29,360
where they can ask for a variance to that secondary lot with, then the house could be preserved.

1155
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:49,460
I'm that's favorable to me, I mean, it's a it's a it's a dance with the devil, so to speak, but it's but how else can we achieve preservation of historic properties, and frankly, some of the land.

1156
01:28:49,700 --> 01:28:58,860
I mean, you know that you know, I think it's this is by definition the charm of winter park is that we have these historic homes.

1157
01:28:58,860 --> 01:29:06,480
We're not cookie cutter. We're not new. We bring something special to the, to the buying public, you know?

1158
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:15,540
So I, I, I supported, I don't understand it at like, to the degree you do, but I tried to judgment and defer to your

1159
01:29:16,120 --> 01:29:18,960
recommendations on that. Okay. I'm seeing nods. Yeah. Yeah.

1160
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:20,520
We're at, can I see anything else?

1161
01:29:23,190 --> 01:29:25,090
What does, can I see? No, no, what John said?

1162
01:29:28,210 --> 01:29:30,630
I'm not sure,

1163
01:29:30,630 --> 01:29:35,170
information being thrown out. And I'm not sure how it how many houses that we've been applied to.

1164
01:29:36,770 --> 01:29:40,370
But I guess we don't have to know until it comes to us.

1165
01:29:40,690 --> 01:29:45,310
Yeah, I was first to read. I trust you. I was thinking about that earlier, like, oh,

1166
01:29:45,370 --> 01:29:49,170
where I got. Does that really apply to any? And then I thought about someone like Orrin Manor.

1167
01:29:49,290 --> 01:29:56,030
And then I have one thing I still have on Pellum in Orrin Manor. And it's a huge lot.

1168
01:29:56,210 --> 01:29:59,970
If it were split, the lots would match all the other lots around there. But the house is right in the

1169
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:29,980
Right. And I could preserve it, or I could just sell it, and actually, it's not my question of selling all this to Anthony anyway or not for that one. But so there are a lot of examples. There are a lot of examples. And obviously the house has to be somewhat situated on one side of the lot of the other. It can't be right in the middle, because there's probably one. Yeah, that's, that's maybe what I'm thinking. Yeah. As I dragged down the street, I would notice if there was what, like, very obviously, like, in obvious situation like that, like, there's one on orange avenue that they

1170
01:30:29,980 --> 01:30:32,260
they did enough like splitting eventually,

1171
01:30:32,440 --> 01:30:33,740
and they could probably split it again, really.

1172
01:30:34,720 --> 01:30:36,820
But yeah, I was trying to think of my head of

1173
01:30:36,820 --> 01:30:39,420
ones that would stand out that would be able to do that.

1174
01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:42,460
And I couldn't really come and put any on the top of my head.

1175
01:30:42,600 --> 01:30:45,640
But if one exists, we got this for them.

1176
01:30:46,200 --> 01:30:47,640
Yeah, there's a couple of an orange manner

1177
01:30:49,140 --> 01:30:50,220
that would work.

1178
01:30:50,820 --> 01:30:54,620
So I mean, I wouldn't say that this opening this up slightly,

1179
01:30:55,260 --> 01:30:56,700
you're not gonna be seeing lots

1180
01:30:56,700 --> 01:30:58,620
but everywhere throughout the city.

1181
01:30:59,200 --> 01:31:02,640
Because again, it has to be the right lot, it has to be designated.

1182
01:31:02,960 --> 01:31:04,160
So we still have a judgment call.

1183
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:09,300
You can't, you know, designate a flying down log cabin in the middle of the city that doesn't qualify.

1184
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:12,820
And then say I want to split it, so still a judgment call.

1185
01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:18,260
Okay, and then I think I got consensus the last time to remove this, but

1186
01:31:18,260 --> 01:31:23,700
again, I just want to ask it again, is that 5% FAR bonus.

1187
01:31:23,700 --> 01:31:29,980
So we have it in the land development code that the historic preservation board can do that.

1188
01:31:30,380 --> 01:31:36,360
But in our comprehensive plan, we say max FAR, and there's no variances to FAR.

1189
01:31:36,860 --> 01:31:44,420
So we kind of, I don't even know when this was added in there, probably 2015-ish, 2016-ish.

1190
01:31:44,640 --> 01:31:48,640
And then we never updated the comp plan to be consistent with the land development code.

1191
01:31:49,160 --> 01:31:51,640
So it's almost like an incentive that we can't offer.

1192
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:58,220
Or actually, it's not almost like it is an incentive we can't offer because it would be in violation of our comprehensive plan.

1193
01:31:59,920 --> 01:32:13,220
And so I noticed that when I was looking at what we could do, do we want to put it in the comprehensive plan while we're changing the comp plan policies for lots, but so we want to add a 5% FAR bonus to historically designated properties.

1194
01:32:14,020 --> 01:32:20,160
So the pro is, it could allow people more likely to designate because they can build more.

1195
01:32:20,460 --> 01:32:26,680
The debt negative is something near and dear to your heart is I don't want to keep over building the freaking houses around here.

1196
01:32:26,980 --> 01:32:30,680
I almost feel like that trumps the prior advantage in my feeling.

1197
01:32:31,380 --> 01:32:31,780
I agree.

1198
01:32:31,820 --> 01:32:39,060
The only thing is, some of these homes are very small and even just, you know, and the lots are small.

1199
01:32:39,060 --> 01:32:47,160
So even just 5% really in the grand scheme of things, maybe they'd just be able to add another bedroom.

1200
01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:52,820
Well, that's 300 square feet for Ron Scarpa's example, which could be meaningful.

1201
01:32:53,160 --> 01:32:53,860
It adds another bedroom.

1202
01:32:54,020 --> 01:32:54,140
Yeah.

1203
01:32:55,180 --> 01:33:05,840
The details are where it gets, 5% might seem like it's a small amount, but you take 5% of that landmass there.

1204
01:33:08,280 --> 01:33:15,360
Well, and changing the impervious, frankly, gets to be problematic as well for everyone

1205
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:15,660
else.

1206
01:33:15,860 --> 01:33:18,660
We are just allowing ourselves to be perfect impervious.

1207
01:33:18,820 --> 01:33:18,960
Right.

1208
01:33:19,180 --> 01:33:20,460
No, you're right.

1209
01:33:20,660 --> 01:33:21,360
But, okay.

1210
01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:26,580
Well, I just, I, we, we shouldn't find ourselves, but to your point, I think it's a, it's a

1211
01:33:26,580 --> 01:33:27,400
massing issue.

1212
01:33:27,740 --> 01:33:28,160
It is.

1213
01:33:28,280 --> 01:33:29,180
A massing issue.

1214
01:33:29,180 --> 01:33:36,460
It's most an advocate for keeping things a little massing as appropriately, yes.

1215
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:36,900
Yeah.

1216
01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:44,140
If it's something about a case-by-case basis, well, I mean, it would be because anything that's

1217
01:33:44,140 --> 01:33:48,060
historically designated would have to come to you for approval of their plans.

1218
01:33:48,360 --> 01:33:52,560
So I need addition or a new house, it would be coming to you.

1219
01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:58,480
But I see the complication is that we got a comp plan that says one thing in the LD's,

1220
01:33:58,480 --> 01:34:04,680
The land development code says the other so we have to pick one we have to pick one and decide which way we're going to go

1221
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:11,360
We can't yeah, and that's what I think Allison is suggesting is that if we felt that support that that still is a good and

1222
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:15,820
Sett of then you would move forward on an attempt to yeah, putting it in the comp lands

1223
01:34:15,820 --> 01:34:20,160
It's well likely to be opening it up. I think maybe it's a cut it's an idea

1224
01:34:20,160 --> 01:34:25,400
We're into your point you're the designer. You're looking at lots all the time and stuff and maybe it's we allow that

1225
01:34:25,400 --> 01:34:30,840
That's might advantage possible, but it still comes before the board, if they-

1226
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:37,720
If you said it, up to five percent for it is, but the way it reads, it says you add a

1227
01:34:37,720 --> 01:34:42,800
five percent for which they're going to take, you know, but that would give this board

1228
01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:45,120
in future, you know, the-

1229
01:34:45,120 --> 01:34:47,180
The maintained discretion or ability to-

1230
01:34:47,180 --> 01:34:49,000
Exactly, up to a five percent for-

1231
01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:49,460
Not guaranteed.

1232
01:34:50,040 --> 01:34:53,140
Yeah, we give words method to say that's not guaranteed, it's a judgment call.

1233
01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:53,740
Yeah, right.

1234
01:34:53,740 --> 01:35:00,200
And that way, we keep the massing and the ability to determine, well, what that grants

1235
01:35:00,200 --> 01:35:02,420
you is way much more than what we were.

1236
01:35:02,520 --> 01:35:06,540
And applications that wouldn't be a good idea is a lot, you know, a half acre and they're

1237
01:35:06,540 --> 01:35:10,140
trying to build a 40,000 square foot house, but now they can build a 45,000 square foot house.

1238
01:35:10,840 --> 01:35:13,720
That's, and you can't know that when you're just saying 5 percent.

1239
01:35:13,780 --> 01:35:13,920
Right.

1240
01:35:14,540 --> 01:35:18,100
So, that's two might be the wording that we're, that we're, that we're, that.

1241
01:35:18,340 --> 01:35:21,500
Yeah, it's based on your lot size, yeah, yeah.

1242
01:35:21,500 --> 01:35:30,600
Okay, so so instead of removing it, we like floating the idea to the commission to then add it into the comp plan.

1243
01:35:30,700 --> 01:35:33,860
Yes, okay, with the change in the wording.

1244
01:35:34,220 --> 01:35:39,220
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and again, this is just to take the list of the commission.

1245
01:35:39,940 --> 01:35:44,820
Yeah, what do they think they give us the same feedback that we are all doing together today.

1246
01:35:45,140 --> 01:35:50,700
And then I actually have to write the codes and then you'll see it again more than once.

1247
01:35:53,000 --> 01:35:53,240
Good.

1248
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:53,740
Yeah.

1249
01:35:56,300 --> 01:35:56,820
All right.

1250
01:35:57,020 --> 01:35:58,640
That's the end of the list.

1251
01:36:00,040 --> 01:36:00,660
Good work.

1252
01:36:00,820 --> 01:36:01,600
Great job on it.

1253
01:36:01,800 --> 01:36:02,040
Thanks.

1254
01:36:02,200 --> 01:36:02,940
Really good.

1255
01:36:03,420 --> 01:36:03,580
Nice.

1256
01:36:04,300 --> 01:36:09,240
That was an overwhelming looking process.

1257
01:36:09,600 --> 01:36:09,740
Yeah.

1258
01:36:10,000 --> 01:36:10,240
All right.

1259
01:36:10,380 --> 01:36:12,880
So I think I got consensus on each and every one of these.

1260
01:36:13,220 --> 01:36:17,140
So I'll move on to preparing the list for the commission.

1261
01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:19,100
And that's all I have for you today.

1262
01:36:19,800 --> 01:36:23,780
Can I ask you a quick question about the Maryland property?

1263
01:36:24,280 --> 01:36:32,880
I just noticed one and I'm and it might be that I have it backwards, but it looks to me like there's that big utility box in the right of way. Yeah.

1264
01:36:34,480 --> 01:36:40,980
But when I was looking at his plans, maybe it's reversed, but that's not where he intends to put the driveway then.

1265
01:36:41,080 --> 01:36:42,120
No, other side.

1266
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:47,520
Okay, that's what I don't know my right from my left. So that's why I just wanted to make sure.

1267
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:49,840
Yes, the driveway would be in the same spot.

1268
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:51,780
That's what I would just want to make sure,

1269
01:36:51,940 --> 01:36:54,120
because I thought, oh gosh, because I thought

1270
01:36:54,120 --> 01:36:56,180
that it went down the other side, so.

1271
01:36:56,760 --> 01:36:59,660
Maybe he could pay for somebody to paint butterflies

1272
01:36:59,660 --> 01:37:00,740
on that box.

1273
01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:04,940
And I'm not sure electric utilities department would like that,

1274
01:37:04,960 --> 01:37:05,860
but they won't.

1275
01:37:06,100 --> 01:37:06,280
I know.

1276
01:37:07,320 --> 01:37:09,140
Well, they're not red.

1277
01:37:10,040 --> 01:37:11,000
I love that, it's true.

1278
01:37:12,200 --> 01:37:14,700
Yeah, I think there was a lot of science that went into picking

1279
01:37:14,700 --> 01:37:16,260
that color that's supposed to blend in.

1280
01:37:16,260 --> 01:37:25,240
I don't know we'll say vegetation anyway anyway okay I think yep we can

1281
01:37:25,240 --> 01:37:25,620
That's right.