[1:39] He's ready.
[1:40] >> We're good. Okay. Good evening
[1:42] everybody.
[1:44] [snorts]
[1:47] I'd like to call the Wednesday, October
[1:49] 7th, 2026
[1:52] Wolfpro Select Board and Libby Trustees
[1:54] meeting into session here at the great
[1:57] hall. Um before we begin, I'd like to
[2:01] invite anybody who'd like to join us for
[2:02] pledge of allegiance to please do so
[2:08] to the flag of the United States of
[2:11] America and to the republic for which it
[2:14] stands. One nation under God,
[2:17] indivisible, liberty and justice for
[2:20] all.
[2:25] And it's flying right side.
[2:28] Thank you very much.
[2:31] Last time I'll do it, but uh introduce
[2:33] our new town manager,
[2:36] Jim Wheeler, to the uh to the meeting.
[2:39] Jim, do we have a need for nonpublic
[2:40] this evening?
[2:41] >> Yeah, we will have one item under 91A
[2:43] colon 3 Roman numeral 2 paragraph L
[2:47] under legal advice.
[2:49] >> Thank you, sir.
[2:51] Second item on our agenda is the
[2:53] consideration of minutes.
[2:56] Miss Murray.
[2:57] >> Yeah, Mr. Chairman, I would like to read
[2:59] a uh statement into the record that I
[3:02] was requested by the town manager
[3:05] secretary. It had to do with something
[3:09] omitted from the uh July 1st minutes. Um
[3:13] was missing a statement on page three
[3:15] before the motion and it was Miss Lane
[3:18] did state thatformational
[3:21] packets were available as confirmed in
[3:24] the video and that the statement was
[3:26] omitted from the minutes but we'd like
[3:29] it recorded.
[3:31] >> Board members, any objection to adding
[3:32] that into uh that adjustment to the
[3:34] minutes?
[3:35] >> No.
[3:37] I have no objection, so we'll okay with
[3:39] that. Any other items on it on the
[3:41] minutes?
[3:46] Okay.
[3:49] September 2nd minutes. [snorts]
[3:51] >> Yes, I have. Um I would like to table
[3:54] those minutes again while re reviewing
[3:57] them. Um, I realized when I corrected
[4:01] line 175,
[4:04] it said the board members read their
[4:06] statements and from those who spoke with
[4:09] them and gave a summary of their
[4:11] activities as trustees of the Living
[4:14] Museum. I believe those statements
[4:16] should be in the minutes. It was about
[4:19] the demolition of the um building and I
[4:22] think those statements are important to
[4:24] be in. So that's why I would like to
[4:26] table that. So I make a motion to table
[4:28] the September 2nd, 2026 minutes.
[4:32] >> Motion to table the September 2nd, 2026
[4:35] minutes. Second, please.
[4:36] >> Second.
[4:37] >> Motion and a second. Any conversation.
[4:41] » All those in favor to table I, please. I
[4:44] >> No objections. Minutes are tabled.
[4:48] Thank you, Linda.
[4:50] >> Next is, and I have some corrections
[4:52] that when we get back, I'll have to do
[4:53] that. September 16th minutes.
[4:57] >> Linda,
[4:58] >> yeah, I haven't I also had an issue with
[5:00] these. I was putting together my report
[5:04] for the chamber and I went to get the
[5:08] information on the Reggie rebate
[5:11] >> and there was no information. I didn't
[5:14] it didn't tell us what date, what the
[5:16] rate was. And so I would like to table
[5:19] this set of minutes also. I'd like to
[5:21] get that information. And I think it's
[5:23] important that that is in the minutes
[5:27] and I think we as a board need to make
[5:29] sure when we make a motion on something
[5:32] like that that we repeat.
[5:34] >> So that's why I'd like to table those.
[5:36] >> A mo do you have a motion for that,
[5:38] Linda?
[5:38] >> I'd like Yeah, I'll make a motion to re
[5:40] table the September 19th minutes.
[5:42] >> Motion to table the 19th September
[5:44] minutes. Second, please.
[5:45] >> Uh 19th or 16th?
[5:48] >> Well, it says 19th here, so I'll sorry.
[5:50] >> 16th. Second, please. second.
[5:52] >> Okay.
[5:54] Any conversation?
[5:57] All those in favor? I please. I
[5:59] >> Okay.
[6:00] >> And I took care of the July 1st.
[6:03] >> Um and there was something in the uh in
[6:05] the document from Donald Lane. Uh um at
[6:08] the public hearing, it was stated any
[6:10] informationational
[6:11] document is available. See the video
[6:14] that'll go along with the uh most recent
[6:16] minutes. So, we'll we'll move those
[6:17] along. It was Miss Murray. This was a
[6:22] We're gonna have you update that the
[6:23] next time we get to the minutes on that.
[6:26] Okay, I think that just about does it
[6:28] for minutes. That was an easy one.
[6:31] Um
[6:34] Okay, just give me a second. Okay, next
[6:37] item on our agenda is public input.
[6:39] Three minutes per resident, 15 total.
[6:41] Please, anybody want to come on up and
[6:43] have a few words?
[6:55] Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
[6:58] >> Okie dokie. Um, next one is public
[7:00] hearings. We don't have any public
[7:01] hearings. Temporary event permits. Um,
[7:04] uh, we have the Wilra Historical Society
[7:06] is going to host a fall car show on
[7:09] October 10th from 10:00 a.m. to 1 atm at
[7:12] Clark Park, permit 202653.
[7:16] uh our town planner did not uh have an
[7:20] opportunity to sign the uh temporary
[7:22] event permit, but based upon uh what he would weigh in on, I'm not so
[7:28] sure we are going to hold this thing up.
[7:30] He'll sign it as soon as we're done.
[7:31] Does somebody want to speak about the
[7:32] car show?
[7:34] There you go.
[7:36] >> Hi, good evening. Shannon, president of
[7:39] the Historical Society at the Park
[7:42] Museum and this is the second uh antique
[7:46] and vintage car show we have this year.
[7:49] There's a group of car owners and
[7:52] they're called the Saturday morning
[7:54] regulars and they never how many them
[7:58] are going to show up. So it's always a
[8:01] lot of different variety of the vehicles
[8:04] and um they also have their meeting
[8:06] there and just great group of people.
[8:09] They bring coffee, donuts. Um we
[8:14] vehicles
[8:16] on the actual museum complex, but it's
[8:19] free open to the public and have
[8:23] insurance. So again,
[8:27] come out nice.
[8:30] >> Let's hope so. Board members, before I
[8:32] open it up, any questions on this side?
[8:36] Any public input?
[8:40] Okay, last chance.
[8:43] And a motion, please.
[8:44] >> Uh move to approve the um Wolfboro
[8:49] Historical Society to host a fall car
[8:52] show on October 10th, 2026 from 10:00
[8:55] a.m. to 1 p.m. That's it. That's the
[8:58] time.
[8:58] >> Permit
[8:59] >> um at Clark
[9:01] uh Clark Park permit number 2026-53.
[9:06] » Second.
[9:06] >> I have a motion and a second by Mr.
[9:08] Senle. Any conversation?
[9:11] >> All those in favor, please. I I
[9:13] >> We're all good. Thanks, Libby. Next one
[9:15] is Wolfer Alliance Club to host a
[9:16] trick-or- treat
[9:18] >> at Kate Park.
[9:19] >> Trick-or- treat
[9:20] >> 31 October 2026 from 5:00 p.m. to 7
[9:22] p.m.2026-54.
[9:26] Anybody want to come up and speak to
[9:28] that
[9:32] quiet night in the past though, right?
[9:34] We've done this in the past.
[9:35] >> They have.
[9:37] >> I believe so.
[9:39] >> Open up the public hearing. Anybody want
[9:41] to comment on it?
[9:44] >> Thank you very much. Board members, can
[9:46] I get a motion, please?
[9:48] >> Um, I will move to approve the temporary
[9:50] event permit
[9:52] uh for the Wolfboro Lions Club to hold
[9:55] trick-or- treat at Kate Park, October
[9:57] 31st, 2026 from 5:00 p.m. to 700 p.m.
[10:02] Permit 2026-54.
[10:05] Okay.
[10:06] >> I also have permit 202655
[10:09] as well. That's for the historical
[10:11] society. So I have a motion. Can I get a
[10:12] second on that?
[10:14] >> Second.
[10:14] >> A motion and a second. All those in
[10:16] favor? I. Please. I.
[10:17] >> Thank you very much. Next item is the
[10:20] Historical Society of Wolf to host a
[10:22] trick-or- treat at Clark Park on 31
[10:24] October 2026 from 5 to 7 per permit
[10:27] 202655.
[10:30] Wondering if that's a duplicative.
[10:32] Anybody here to want to speak to that?
[10:35] Here comes Libby.
[10:36] >> Yeah.
[10:37] >> Hi, S.
[10:38] >> Okay. This is really
[10:41] Shannon uh president and [snorts] very
[10:44] representable for Historical Society at
[10:47] the Clark Museum. And this is our
[10:49] seventh uh annual trickor treat at the
[10:52] Clark Museum. You know, we started this
[10:55] back in 2020 um so there would be a safe
[10:58] place for kids to trickor treat outside
[11:01] and I think we've continued to provide a
[11:04] safe place. Um there's, you know, not a
[11:08] lot of traffic there and um it's just
[11:10] awesome. So, uh you can bring us candy,
[11:14] drop it off at my house. No, I'm
[11:17] kidding. [laughter]
[11:19] >> Just don't drop it off in my house. It
[11:21] won't make it to the party.
[11:23] So, it's during um town Halloween hours
[11:26] and um if you cancel Halloween, that
[11:31] would be sad, but we [laughter] we will
[11:34] we only do it if we have a town trick or
[11:36] treat and then when the candy runs out,
[11:38] we're all set. So,
[11:41] >> question.
[11:42] >> Brian,
[11:43] >> do you know about the um Lions Club
[11:46] trickor treat at the park? Can you
[11:48] explain that to us? So, um,
[11:52] the Lions Club and the Kingswood Youth
[11:55] Center had always been on the grass of
[11:58] the park and you know, we do ours behind
[12:00] the picket fence of the Clark Museum.
[12:02] >> Y
[12:03] >> and
[12:05] that's like a separate um
[12:07] >> kind of thing,
[12:08] >> a separate thing. I'm not really sure
[12:10] what they're doing, but we've sort of
[12:12] absorbed the Kingswood Youth Center.
[12:14] >> Okay. Um, so they'll be with us. So they
[12:17] won't be having a separate event permit.
[12:19] So
[12:19] >> perfect. You're you're a
[12:21] >> plethora of information.
[12:24] >> You all set?
[12:25] >> Yeah.
[12:26] >> Well, no.
[12:26] >> Yeah. I just want to make sure we note
[12:29] that we need to close the parking lot to
[12:32] vehicle traffic is one of their
[12:35] requests. And we do. Kids are walking
[12:37] all over the place.
[12:38] >> So that is need we need to make sure
[12:40] that happens. Okay.
[12:44] Board members,
[12:47] anybody in the public want comment?
[12:50] All set. Board members, can I get a
[12:52] motion, please?
[12:52] >> Move to approve um the Wolfboro
[12:55] Historical Society to host Trickor Treat
[12:57] at Clark Park on October 31st, 2026 from
[13:01] 5:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. Permit number
[13:04] 2026-55.
[13:06] >> Second motion, a second.
[13:09] >> Second.
[13:10] >> And that includes closing the park.
[13:12] closing the parking lot
[13:13] >> and to have the parking lot closed for
[13:15] safety for the children.
[13:16] >> Anybody object to the addition on the
[13:18] motion?
[13:19] >> We're good. Okay.
[13:22] Any conversation? All those in favor,
[13:24] please.
[13:25] >> We're good.
[13:26] >> Thank you.
[13:27] >> Can I approach?
[13:30] >> You were only going to get this candy if
[13:31] you
[13:32] >> candy. [laughter]
[13:33] Right here. No. No. No. Right here. No.
[13:35] Oh, look at this.
[13:36] >> Thank you.
[13:37] >> Oh, we're going to get in trouble for
[13:38] this.
[13:40] Okay. Thank you. Put that down in your
[13:42] pocket.
[13:42] >> We'll sit here munching.
[13:44] >> Thank you.
[13:46] >> If anybody doesn't want their candy, I I
[13:49] can uh very easily put it in my car. Uh
[13:52] we have in the past uh recent past been
[13:55] uh putting uh up behind us uh the bulk
[13:57] vote. Um we're not going to do that
[14:00] tonight. Uh we're uh I'm just going to
[14:03] read it into the record and we'll take a
[14:05] uh take a vote on it. So we have items
[14:08] A, B, C, and D on our bulk vote. The
[14:10] first item is the weekly manifest. Those
[14:12] are the bills we pay. September 18th,
[14:15] 2026, 345,949563.
[14:22] September 25th, 1.352
[14:26] 571, million.33. I believe that includes
[14:30] the school payment.
[14:31] >> Yes. and October 2nd B uh manifest
[14:35] $410,317.
[14:40] The second item on the bulk vote is the
[14:43] uh Thanks for coming guys. Leave some
[14:45] more candy if you wouldn't mind. Um is
[14:47] the approval of the MS1 summary of in
[14:49] inventory valuation and the MS1
[14:53] V5 lower beach pond. The third item and
[14:57] anybody want to talk about what that is?
[14:58] you want to give us a brief update so
[14:59] folks can understand the valuation of
[15:01] our town we have to submit to the state.
[15:04] It's important for us to do that because
[15:07] that helps with the establishment of uh
[15:09] tax rates and all of that kind of stuff.
[15:11] Third item on the uh bulk vote is the
[15:13] approval of the yield tax levy. There's
[15:15] a yield tax levy on 20 Workers Drive tax
[15:18] Map 161 lot 12 for $964.95
[15:22] 92.
[15:24] And the last is a uh intent to cut
[15:26] lumber old route 28 tax map 25 lot 2.
[15:31] That is the bulk vote. Can I get a
[15:33] motion, please?
[15:34] >> I'll make a motion to approve the bulk
[15:37] vote A through D.
[15:39] >> Motion. Do I have a second?
[15:40] >> Second.
[15:41] >> I have a motion and a second on the bulk
[15:42] vote.
[15:43] >> Can I if you want I can say one little
[15:45] thing. I want to tell people about the
[15:47] MS1 fund. It's um report required by RSA
[15:51] 21-J number 34. um and it's
[15:54] certification of valuations,
[15:56] appropriations, and estimated revenues
[15:59] and other information for the department
[16:00] of revenue in order to set our tax rate.
[16:03] Quick information, it is our land value,
[16:07] our building value. This is for the
[16:09] whole town of Wolfboro. Utilities and
[16:11] timber value. Exemptions are subtracted
[16:14] out. it's um optional exemptions
[16:18] factored out and then a total amount of
[16:21] exemptions and the total net value of
[16:23] our um of the the town. So we have a
[16:28] total net value without utilities and
[16:31] adjusted um at 4 bill818,717,535.
[16:40] That's the value of the town of
[16:42] Wolfboro.
[16:44] Anything
[16:45] else, Brian?
[16:46] >> That's all.
[16:47] >> Thank you for that. Um, did some You
[16:49] moved, Linda, and there was a second.
[16:51] >> So, we have a motion and a second.
[16:52] That's That was your discussion. Anybody
[16:54] else?
[16:56] >> All those in favor of approving the bulk
[16:58] vote, I please. I
[16:59] >> I
[16:59] >> All right, we're good. Next item on the
[17:02] agenda is uh board and committee
[17:03] appointments. We have none this evening.
[17:06] New business. [clears throat] First item
[17:09] of new business is a discussion. Mr.
[17:11] Brown uh requested a uh a 30-minute
[17:14] meeting with the board to re uh review
[17:17] his report that is in our board packets.
[17:19] Mr. Brown, welcome back.
[17:30] » Good evening. I'm going to go ahead and
[17:32] sign in.
[17:32] >> Yeah, sign in, please.
[17:34] >> Yeah, I don't know if the microphone
[17:36] Timothy, can you hear Derek upstairs?
[17:38] >> Uh I Oh, yeah.
[17:39] >> Oh, he's good. Never mind. Never mind.
[17:40] We're good.
[17:42] >> Talk to it. Thanks, Derek.
[17:44] >> Sure.
[17:46] Okay. Um, good evening. Uh, thank you
[17:49] for hearing us this evening and, uh,
[17:51] welcome, Mr. Wheeler.
[17:52] >> Thank you.
[17:53] >> Um, I'm just going to read a few pages
[17:56] here. We're going to have, uh, kind of
[17:58] an inclusive from all the members that
[18:00] assisted in this tonight. Uh,
[18:07] » want me to make the noise?
[18:10] There you go. There you go.
[18:11] >> There we go.
[18:12] You're going to have to get
[18:13] it down when you're
[18:19] » ahead.
[18:19] >> Okay.
[18:20] >> Much better. Thank you.
[18:21] >> Okay. So, to get started, uh yes, we
[18:25] produced a report um that was handed in
[18:28] earlier last week. Um but nearly all of
[18:32] it, the entire report didn't make it
[18:34] into Mr. Randall's presentation. So, we
[18:37] appreciate being able to discuss that
[18:40] tonight. So, tonight we offer detailed
[18:42] information as to how we arrived at I'm
[18:45] going to say our conclusions
[18:47] so far.
[18:50] We offer to share the methods and the
[18:52] approaches with anybody that has
[18:53] questions. We welcome it.
[18:57] You'll hear from obviously myself.
[18:58] You'll hear from Sebastian Toronado.
[19:00] You'll hear from Jeff Owings. And you'll
[19:01] hear from Suzanne Ryan.
[19:04] So, I'm going to start off by saying how
[19:06] we got here for those that are kind of
[19:08] newer to this journey. Uh, November of
[19:10] last year,
[19:12] I reported found and reported a foul
[19:15] smelling fluid coming from a drain pipe
[19:18] at the town docks.
[19:21] Tests were done.
[19:23] It revealed fecal collar form in excess
[19:26] of 2400 which is I know there's a
[19:29] variety of tests that can be done to
[19:31] measure that but for the test that was
[19:33] done by europens that was as high as the
[19:34] value could read and a ecoli test was
[19:39] also done and that was 260
[19:42] at that same location that was done and
[19:46] the results were in on November 12th but
[19:48] it was not revealed to the public until
[19:51] January 15th.
[19:54] It seemed to mysteriously make its way
[19:56] out of minutes and meetings subsequent
[19:58] between November and January.
[20:01] Too many stories to mention as to the
[20:03] source of these challenges.
[20:06] It is our understanding the pipe is no
[20:08] longer in service. So moving forward,
[20:13] this brings us to what we call the pool
[20:15] at the town docks. [snorts]
[20:19] You can form your own definition of what
[20:21] we mean by a pool.
[20:23] A growing number of citizens have
[20:25] started asking us had started asking us
[20:28] why this pool exists in the parking lot
[20:30] at the town docks at this time every
[20:33] year.
[20:34] So a small group of us got together.
[20:38] we educated ourselves, asked a
[20:40] lot of questions of a lot of people and
[20:42] a lot of professionals and industry
[20:45] consultants.
[20:48] We collected data, trends and
[20:50] conditions. We reached out to Euroins to
[20:53] guide us on proper techniques and
[20:55] methods for actually testing if we were
[20:57] going to take this on ourselves with our
[20:59] own dime and time.
[21:03] They were I I have to point out
[21:05] incredibly helpful in guiding us. There
[21:08] were several visual visual conditions as
[21:11] I call them that raised our concern. We
[21:14] did our first test as this group of four
[21:17] I mentioned on June 17th.
[21:20] And as reference to the previous
[21:22] comments about the pipe test results
[21:24] taking two months, we had our results in
[21:27] two days.
[21:30] These results were also at the storm
[21:34] drain in the center of the parking lot
[21:35] where this pool was or at that time was.
[21:39] They were also greater than 2400 for
[21:41] feififor
[21:44] and ecoli
[21:47] 260.
[21:50] It's important to point this out that
[21:52] this storm drain is in the middle of the
[21:54] parking lot which is about 80 ft from
[21:56] the capped pipe from the previous
[21:59] November.
[22:02] We brought these results to the
[22:03] selectman meeting of July 1st. Select
[22:05] board submitted them unanimously to put
[22:08] them in the record. At that time, one of
[22:11] the members whose personal information
[22:12] was in the uh chain of custody, we were
[22:15] a little concerned about who was going
[22:16] to take that personal information it was
[22:19] once it was a public document. So, we
[22:20] asked to redact that personal
[22:21] information, but needless to say, the
[22:24] test was submitted.
[22:26] We raised immediate concerns for public
[22:28] safety because this was a pool of water
[22:31] draining into the lake. We have video
[22:32] evidence of it, and we have videos of
[22:35] kids and adults walking through it
[22:37] barefoot, washing their face in the boat
[22:39] ramp water where that water is pouring
[22:41] into the lake.
[22:45] It's not speculated. It is on video.
[22:48] We raised these immediate concerns for
[22:50] public safety as this water is draining
[22:52] directly into the lake of the public
[22:53] boat ramp. Now, approximately a week
[22:56] later, we were approached by the DPW
[22:58] director as a suggestion we should work
[23:01] together,
[23:04] compare notes, methods, and truly find
[23:07] out what's happening at the town docks
[23:09] parking lot.
[23:11] Now, I will say all of us were
[23:14] encouraged. Maybe we've turned a corner
[23:16] here.
[23:18] So the four of us got together at Pop
[23:21] Whan had a meeting with Steve Randall
[23:24] and troubleshoot the challenges and
[23:26] create a plan for correction.
[23:30] We were asked for our data and we
[23:31] provided it. We gave suggestions on a
[23:35] path because
[23:37] we don't have other projects in town. We
[23:40] had a lot of time to be laser focused on
[23:42] this particular issue. So, we spent a
[23:44] lot of time on this, probably more than
[23:46] a lot of us want to admit.
[23:48] Um, so we created a a series of ideas
[23:53] that we felt would give us strong
[23:56] conclusions.
[23:58] As July and August evolved, it became
[24:01] evident we were only spectators.
[24:04] We were not involved.
[24:07] All of our ideas
[24:10] were politely accepted but not
[24:13] implemented.
[24:16] Now, here we are. We're in agreement on
[24:19] one thing.
[24:21] We want to, as we say, uncouple the
[24:25] connection between potential cracks in a
[24:27] sewer main and groundwater
[24:29] contamination. We don't want to see that
[24:31] either. We all own property here.
[24:37] We can't uncouple these things.
[24:40] All indications from all of our data,
[24:42] and you're going to hear more of it
[24:43] tonight, they are connected. To this
[24:47] point, we cannot prove they are not.
[24:52] Why do we know this?
[24:55] What we know is we don't know where it's
[24:57] coming from, nor what it is. But either
[25:01] way, it's making its way into the lake
[25:03] through the stream the storm drains.
[25:08] The one location of six sites tested by
[25:10] the DPW that that Jeff Owings was asked
[25:13] to follow along and watch. The one site
[25:17] that had the high hit for E.coli only
[25:20] was the very same stone drain that we
[25:22] had the high hit on. No others
[25:27] in that same location.
[25:31] The value was 6 160 for EC coli which is
[25:34] higher than we'd want it to be.
[25:37] I would say it was somewhere around 2
[25:40] weeks into July. Kerry Beach I I'm going
[25:45] to go from memory so forgive me was
[25:47] around 140 or something. So the beach
[25:50] was closed for the week
[25:53] but we're doing nothing at the town
[25:54] docks.
[25:58] So
[26:00] this high reading was in the same spot
[26:02] as I mentioned fe what to me beyond me
[26:08] to our group the next major fatal flaw.
[26:12] Fecal caulifform testing was not
[26:15] performed. They are two separate tests.
[26:17] One is for for ecoli and one is for
[26:20] fecal cifform. They need to incubate at
[26:22] different temperatures and are handled
[26:24] completely independent of one another.
[26:26] they cannot be tested from the same
[26:27] sample.
[26:30] This was critical to the whole process.
[26:33] Now I'm going to go on to say the ecoli
[26:36] reading at the same storm drain.
[26:40] Where did the test come up short? Now
[26:42] I'm going to instead of read this, I'm
[26:44] going to kind of give you a description
[26:47] and and again you'll be able to ask
[26:48] questions. Is
[26:51] DNA certainly important? And I know that
[26:53] was at the front of everybody's mind
[26:55] that we needed to do DNA testing. Well,
[26:58] number one, it's expense.
[27:01] And it's expense that we may not find
[27:03] necessary if we don't find any ecoli to
[27:06] begin with or fecal properties or fecal
[27:09] caulifform that warrant getting a DNA
[27:11] test done.
[27:14] So
[27:16] there was more focus on let's get a DNA
[27:19] test done on something we don't even
[27:21] know if there's feal colifform in it.
[27:25] That was a waste of energy and money.
[27:29] Now these res these results would turn
[27:32] into the defining of DNA test that would
[27:35] be warranted
[27:37] for spending monies on tests that may be
[27:40] inconclusive
[27:42] may put us right back to square one. We
[27:44] don't know anything and that's where we
[27:46] ended up further from day one and I say
[27:50] day one meaning mid July we stress the
[27:53] importance of colored dye testing that
[27:56] should have been done first. That is
[27:58] exactly what we asked for first because
[28:01] we sat here 10 months ago saying we
[28:03] don't know where these drains go.
[28:06] I think we can all at least agree on
[28:08] that one point
[28:10] and if not you can review the video
[28:12] recorded meetings. We agree we don't
[28:14] know where it goes. So instead of doing
[28:17] the die testing first they put it to the
[28:21] end of August after DNA and E.coli tests
[28:24] were done.
[28:26] And by the way, the DNA, the dye
[28:29] testing, they used green and blue. What
[28:33] are the colors of our water?
[28:36] There's lots of colors that could have
[28:38] been used to make it more visible. But
[28:41] something else happened.
[28:43] The dyes really, as far as we can tell,
[28:46] never even made it through the lake
[28:48] because by the time they put the water
[28:50] pressure in the storm drains to push the
[28:53] dyes through, all kinds of crud came out
[28:55] of the storm drains.
[28:58] And that can be attested to this
[29:00] evening. So again, if we were more
[29:04] involved in the process,
[29:09] that would have been the time to do an
[29:10] E.coli coli and caulifform fecal
[29:12] caulifform test right now what's coming
[29:15] out of that storm drain and all that
[29:16] sediment but it was not done nothing to
[29:19] see here what's most important was an
[29:21] ecoli number
[29:24] well
[29:27] what did happen is the die testing
[29:29] didn't work
[29:32] drains that are full of sediment and we
[29:34] don't really know what's in them so this
[29:36] is just an opinion but the one reason we
[29:38] wanted the die testing was simply to see
[29:40] where this goes and create a schematic
[29:42] that we could work from.
[29:48] The EC coli and fecal fecal caulifform
[29:51] test at these locations should have
[29:54] happened together simultaneously. They
[29:56] did not. So we have an ecoli number
[30:00] without a real read on the fecal
[30:02] components of this
[30:04] which is really what we were all
[30:07] debating for months.
[30:09] and that should have been done.
[30:12] So in anticipation of the work session
[30:14] with the DPW last week, we got all the
[30:16] information in our reporting form and
[30:18] you know specifically I got to publicly
[30:20] thank Jeff Owings. He put so much time
[30:22] into this report and his background was
[30:24] this is one of his strengths. We are
[30:27] expecting our research and data and
[30:29] statistical information to be in this
[30:31] report. It was not.
[30:33] Lastly,
[30:35] the report was provided as as the day
[30:38] the report was provided to Mr. Wheeler
[30:41] to Mr. Randall,
[30:44] an elected official reached out and said
[30:49] we needed to add some data to our
[30:51] report.
[30:54] [snorts] We said no,
[30:58] the report is ours, our data. We're not
[31:03] adding theories, speculation or
[31:08] attabo for other people that are trying
[31:10] to get attab boys out of this. This is
[31:12] the data presented factual.
[31:16] Now the conclusions
[31:20] we cannot unfortunately from our point
[31:22] of view uncouple the fecal matter
[31:25] component of this regardless of the type
[31:28] groundwater concentr contamination and
[31:32] storm drains are emptying into the lake.
[31:34] We do not have a conclusion of where
[31:37] this where this is coming from or what's
[31:40] in it. And in order to agree with the
[31:42] statements in this report, we would have
[31:45] to do so.
[31:47] We're not there yet.
[31:49] Now, I'd like to ask Sebastian um to
[31:53] give us a couple of minutes if you could
[31:54] of what he has.
[31:56] >> Can I Derek, thank you for that. Um
[31:59] board members, do you want to wait till
[32:01] everybody's done or do you want to ask
[32:02] Derek any specific questions now?
[32:04] >> Okay, sure.
[32:06] >> I guess you might want to wait. Wait
[32:07] till everybody's
[32:08] >> I'd like to hear the whole thing. Great.
[32:11] I think that's a good idea.
[32:12] >> And then I'd like to make a statement. I
[32:14] don't want to ask questions.
[32:15] >> That's okay. We'll wait till everybody's
[32:16] done. Thank you.
[32:18] >> Sebastian, you're next.
[32:19] >> Thank you, sir.
[32:29] [clears throat]
[32:37] » Good evening. Uh Sebastian Toronado.
[32:41] Uh just like to say I want to take this
[32:45] opportunity to thank the select board
[32:47] and Steve Randall for the opportunity uh
[32:50] to try to work together. I think it uh
[32:52] the collaboration
[32:54] uh worked somewhat. It could have been
[32:57] better. Uh but I'm enthusiastic to try
[33:00] to get back on it and try to get more
[33:03] better data here. Uh
[33:08] what I'm going to speak about is the
[33:10] testing that was done and how it might
[33:13] have been done a little bit better. Uh
[33:16] in order to do that I have to give you a
[33:17] little background. Um I've come before
[33:20] you a couple times before and have put
[33:23] forth a theory and that theory is that
[33:27] there is a leak in the sewer system
[33:29] contaminates the groundwater. where we
[33:31] have heavy rains, the groundwater comes
[33:33] up, gets into the sump of the building,
[33:35] the bu uh the sump comes on, puts the
[33:39] sump water into the drain system, and
[33:41] that's where we're seeing the problem. I
[33:44] would like nothing more than to disprove
[33:47] that theory. I really would. I don't
[33:49] want the sewer system to be part of the
[33:52] drain system essentially when when we
[33:54] have a high water. But nonetheless, in
[33:58] order to do that, we need information.
[33:59] We need data to be able to prove that
[34:02] that's not happening or to prove that it
[34:04] is happening. And I understand we did uh
[34:09] Stantech was hired to send some of the
[34:12] samples for uh DNA testing and that uh
[34:16] came back nothing. No
[34:19] bird, no dog, no human DNA.
[34:24] And I'd like to add too that I've done a
[34:27] little research and the the types of DNA
[34:29] that they can test for right now are
[34:31] those three plus livestock which is
[34:35] cattle
[34:37] uh pigs that kind of thing. So, since
[34:40] they didn't hit
[34:42] those three, the aven, the human, or the
[34:46] pet, which by the way, the pet also
[34:48] includes horses,
[34:50] uh, I don't recall seeing a lot of cows
[34:52] in town, so I doubt that that was the
[34:54] problem. So, that made me wonder, you
[34:56] know, what's with the test? How could
[34:58] you have zero? How can it be zero? How
[35:00] can you have no DNA whatsoever? You
[35:03] know, unless the Martians landed the
[35:04] night before, I I don't know. Uh so I
[35:08] started looking into that and I find
[35:10] that when you go to do a DNA test,
[35:14] you have to execute the test some 8 to
[35:17] 12 hours after you take the sample. If
[35:20] you don't do that and you just keep it
[35:21] in water, believe it or not, water is an
[35:24] enemy of DNA. It uh hydrayes the de uh
[35:28] the DNA, breaks it apart, and you get
[35:31] nothing. It gets degraded and you end up
[35:34] getting no DNA.
[35:37] The only uh [sighs]
[35:39] the only way you can is if you filter
[35:41] the sample first. You can save the
[35:44] filtered sample in a freezer and then
[35:48] you can do that up to 6 months later.
[35:51] But there was no information indicated that that
[35:56] happened. What I what my understanding
[35:58] from the report and from questions I
[36:01] asked was the sample was set down. They
[36:04] were told to hold it until they did the
[36:07] E. coli test and once the E.coli test
[36:10] was done they selected which sample they
[36:12] wanted to do the DNA test. That took two
[36:15] days. By the end of two days the DNA was
[36:18] probably degraded. That's why you got
[36:20] zero hit on it. Number two I'd like to
[36:24] kind of say uh give you a little bit of
[36:26] information on what
[36:29] uh fecal caulifform total collifform and
[36:32] ecoli is. You probably have had a
[36:34] somewhat a lesson in that. But for those
[36:36] who are uneducated,
[36:38] the universe
[36:40] of caulifform bacteria is this. Fecal
[36:45] caulifform is a subset of total
[36:47] caulifforms and ecoli is a subset of
[36:51] fecal caulifforms. So if you have EC
[36:53] coli what that indicates is you have a
[36:55] fecal contamination but you don't know
[36:58] exactly what level you have it at how
[37:00] much uh you can sort of try to derive it
[37:04] from the ecoli but it's not really a one
[37:06] to one relationship.
[37:08] So
[37:09] the reason why fecal caulifform is
[37:12] important, it kind of gives you a load
[37:14] number. It gives you like how
[37:16] contaminated, what is the frequency of
[37:18] contamination, how big of a load went
[37:21] in. And what I can tell you is that some
[37:24] the research that I've done and looked
[37:26] up when you get to a number of 2400 that
[37:30] pegs the test.
[37:32] And
[37:34] what that indicates according to some
[37:37] people and the research that uh I've
[37:40] seen is that that is the microbial
[37:43] equivalent of raw sewage or uh a heavy
[37:48] agricultural runoff. And before anyone
[37:52] loses their mind, I said it's the
[37:54] equivalent. Didn't call it raw sewage.
[37:57] It is the equivalent of raw sewage.
[38:00] Um, so I also did some checking on what
[38:04] one does when you have that sort of
[38:07] situation.
[38:09] And in order to try to clean it up, they
[38:12] basically tell you you should be wearing
[38:14] a hazmat suit. So it's not something
[38:16] that is h well not a big deal. They tell
[38:19] you to wear rubber gloves, rubber boots,
[38:21] an N95 mask, and goggles. And so it they
[38:25] consider a load of 2400
[38:30] as as very high. In fact, if they give
[38:33] you sometime in c certain papers I've
[38:35] read, they give you limits like for
[38:38] instance swimming up to 200 you can
[38:41] swim. 400 you really shouldn't have
[38:45] contact with the water. After up to a
[38:48] thousand after a th00and you shouldn't
[38:50] even be boating in the water. So a load
[38:53] of 2400 they consider I believe the
[38:57] words I read were biological hazard.
[39:00] So it's not something that can be
[39:05] uh overlooked easily. It's something
[39:07] that really needs to be dealt with. Um
[39:12] that's kind of what I need to say. Oh,
[39:14] and also I did some research on
[39:19] for instance, you know, parking lot at
[39:20] design, the situation we have here. And
[39:24] the three most probable
[39:27] causes for the situation that I
[39:30] described were,
[39:32] let me read this because I want to quote
[39:35] this exactly. So, I have to put on my
[39:37] glasses. My my vanity is is hurting
[39:40] right now. Uh
[39:43] so they call it well the number one
[39:45] reason is a groundwater contamination.
[39:47] If an adjacent building septic tank or
[39:49] an underground municipal sewer main is
[39:52] cracked, raw sewage is leaking into the
[39:54] ground surrounding soil. The sump pump
[39:57] is then drawing in this highly
[39:58] contaminated groundwater and discharging
[40:01] it directly into the parking lot basin.
[40:04] That's the number one. The second one is
[40:06] an illegal cross connection. A nearby
[40:09] building may have elicitly plumbed con
[40:11] uh plump connection where a toilet, a
[40:14] sink or washing machine has been
[40:16] accidentally plumbed into the storm
[40:18] drain system instead of the sanitary
[40:20] sewer. That was uh actually my first
[40:23] theory, but according to Mr. Cynical
[40:26] that did not happen. And the third one
[40:29] is a dumpster or trash compactor runoff
[40:32] which doesn't exist. So I I discount
[40:34] that. So, we're left with the original
[40:37] theory that I came up with. And again, I
[40:40] wish it was uh wrong and I want it to be
[40:44] wrong, but at this point, I can't
[40:47] disprove it. Um, so
[40:51] to uh have some uh recommendations in
[40:56] terms of this uh I had understood that
[40:59] there was going to be continuing
[41:00] testing, you know, like on a monthly
[41:02] basis. I would like to suggest that you
[41:05] don't bother. Uh that's not going to get
[41:08] you anywhere. Uh the time to test is
[41:12] next spring when the water comes up, the
[41:14] lake is high, groundwater is high, and
[41:17] the sump pumps are running. And then
[41:19] what we need to do is go into the sump
[41:21] pump, take a sample right at the sump
[41:24] pump as it comes out. If that's reading
[41:28] high uh fecal caulifforms
[41:32] uh or ecoli, we found our our culprit.
[41:35] If it's not, then it's probably
[41:37] groundwater uh runoff. So, um that's
[41:41] what I would suggest we do in the
[41:42] future. And one other recommendation I
[41:45] have is that
[41:48] so the basin we have now which is uh the
[41:51] one in the parking lot we recently
[41:53] tested it got a high E.coli number. The
[41:57] thing about fealifform bacteria and
[42:00] E.coli bacteria is rather resilient if
[42:03] it has a food source. So since that
[42:08] basin if you will or the inside of that
[42:10] pipe is probably well quot well coated
[42:15] with muck. Okay. And I I I'll call it
[42:18] muk. How's that? Uh and the cifform
[42:23] bacteria and the e coli can actually
[42:25] survive, can actually thrive, can
[42:28] actually multiply.
[42:31] And in certain cases, depending on how
[42:33] much food source there is or how much
[42:36] nutrients there are, it can actually
[42:39] winter over.
[42:41] So that right now is contaminated and
[42:45] you can go test it any way you want.
[42:47] You're going to come up with high eoli,
[42:50] high califform bacteria. My suggestion
[42:54] is you go in there and you clean that
[42:56] drain out. Get a vacuum.
[42:58] Suck everything out of there. Make sure
[43:00] it's clean. Test it. Make sure there's
[43:02] no nothing there. Next spring when the
[43:05] water comes up and the sump pumps
[43:08] operate, then go test it again and see
[43:12] what you're getting. If it's if you're
[43:14] getting high ecoli, high califform
[43:18] bacteria,
[43:19] then I think we have our culprit. And if
[43:23] it does turn out to be the culprit, you
[43:26] know, there's things you can do
[43:28] that are not requiring you to tear up
[43:30] the street and replace the pipe. There's
[43:34] something called lining. If the if the
[43:36] thing is cracked because you have a lot
[43:38] of eye in there and uh and it's leaking,
[43:42] you can reline part of the system to
[43:45] avoid this situation.
[43:48] And I find it curious.
[43:51] Again, this is just my my engineer in
[43:53] me. Guys did a lot of tests. You guys
[43:57] did a lot of, you know, other drains,
[44:00] other places. Struck out every time. Why
[44:04] is it that it's always behind the Avery
[44:06] building that you have this problem?
[44:10] >> You got to ask that question.
[44:13] >> So, that's about all I have. You know,
[44:16] happy to take questions when
[44:18] >> Well, when you do it at the end ready
[44:20] for it. Thank you, Sebastian. Appreciate
[44:22] it. Mr. Owings,
[44:26] » I'm Jeff Owings, 500 S Road, and I was
[44:30] in charge.
[44:31] >> There you go.
[44:38] » I was in charge of most of the
[44:39] methodology for this report
[44:42] and I want to tell you about some of the
[44:44] methodology that we used to come to the
[44:46] conclusions that we did.
[44:49] I worked in statistical agency for 30
[44:51] years and the most important thing I
[44:54] always looked at in a report was the
[44:56] methodology. How did they do the test?
[44:59] How did they come up with the
[45:01] conclusions? Does it agree with the
[45:03] research?
[45:04] So one of the most important components
[45:06] of the research present presented here
[45:09] is the methodology that was used to
[45:11] collect the data and how the data were
[45:14] analyzed
[45:16] without well documented. I have every
[45:18] report that's been done, everything that
[45:21] I could find research from internet.
[45:26] Without wellocumented methodology, it is
[45:29] very difficult to replicate the research
[45:31] findings.
[45:33] In our report, we documented the
[45:36] procedures used to select the data which
[45:40] included date, time,
[45:43] um data sampling tools used. We went
[45:46] down to the exact tools we used, how we
[45:48] poured it off and delivery time to the
[45:52] Euroins data testing group.
[45:55] We tried to make sure we documented our
[45:59] methodology so it could be replicated.
[46:03] We did not rely on expert opinion or
[46:06] educated guesses.
[46:08] For example, we documented how we
[46:10] collected the data samples. This is
[46:13] important because our sample was the key
[46:16] link that allowed comparisons to samples
[46:20] that the town had already done and what
[46:24] they're going to do in the future.
[46:28] Our sample tested both EC coli and fecal
[46:31] matter. Fecal matter was up to 2400.
[46:35] Ecoli was I think 273.
[46:39] Without this link, it would not have
[46:41] been possible to compare E.coli and
[46:44] fiscal and fecal matter results over
[46:46] time.
[46:49] In taking samples for the Wolfboro dock
[46:51] parking lot, it is important to use
[46:53] information such as recent rainfall,
[46:57] depth of the lake, and water flow in
[47:00] underground pipes. What I observed when
[47:03] we were doing the die testing is
[47:07] water wasn't going out because the water
[47:09] in the lake was above the pipe.
[47:12] So there was a negative push. So water
[47:15] wasn't going out. And in the spring
[47:17] that's even worse. So we don't know
[47:22] is the water backing up into under the
[47:24] gravel of the pavement and going all the
[47:27] way to the street or what's it doing? We
[47:30] got to figure that out and we got to
[47:33] find a way to get the water not to set
[47:36] in the pipes under the catch basins
[47:40] because what's happening is the bacteria
[47:44] are incubating.
[47:45] >> That's what he's saying.
[47:47] So
[47:48] they,
[47:50] you know, they reproduce.
[47:52] Sunshine will kill them. But if they
[47:55] have a dark environment, these bacteria
[47:57] will reproduce. Then when there's a
[47:59] pool, when the lake pushes the water
[48:01] back up, it goes into these pools and
[48:04] you will have ecoli infested pools that
[48:07] people can walk in that cars can go
[48:10] through.
[48:12] So [snorts]
[48:13] we also say we need sufficient time for
[48:15] the incubation. We want to we don't want
[48:18] to test right after a rain. We want to
[48:21] give it two or three days for the
[48:23] incubation to happen. So there's enough
[48:25] to measure.
[48:28] And as Sebastian said earlier, a monthly
[48:32] sample
[48:33] won't I don't think will make it because
[48:37] right now for the next four or five
[48:39] months, the water level in a lake is
[48:42] probably going to be at the pipe level,
[48:44] the exit pipe level or below it. So
[48:47] we're not going to get any backflow.
[48:50] So what you're testing, you know, water
[48:52] is running out in these months. It's in
[48:55] the spring when the water can't get out
[48:58] that we're having the problems.
[49:01] So that's what we're suggesting that the
[49:04] real tests are going to happen in the
[49:05] spring for both E.coli and um you know
[49:10] feal matter and it might be from birds.
[49:12] It might be from we don't know what it's
[49:13] from. The concern of this report was not
[49:16] that it was human. We weren't concerned
[49:18] with human. It was there's ecoli there.
[49:22] We don't know what type it is. We need
[49:24] to do something. Thank you,
[49:27] >> Mr. Owings. Thank you.
[49:39] » I think we're Well, first of all, thank
[49:41] you for staying in the time.
[49:44] Um, if the board has uh the board like
[49:47] to extend this for a little more
[49:49] conversation, I'll entertain that. You
[49:51] want to do that?
[49:51] >> I'd like to make a quick statement.
[49:54] You want to go first or do we want the
[49:56] town manager? You What do you want to
[49:57] do? Board members, you want to make a
[49:58] statement?
[49:58] >> He can go first.
[49:59] >> Let the town manager do it. [laughter]
[50:02] >> Let's let the new guy talk.
[50:03] >> Okay.
[50:04] >> All right. [clears throat]
[50:07] One thing that I think everybody can
[50:10] agree on is there's a drainage issue
[50:14] down by the buildings on Main Street at
[50:18] the town docks, right?
[50:20] It's a product of an urban environment
[50:23] being built right up against the lake.
[50:26] Um, frankly, it's not surprising to me
[50:29] that you would find ecoli in a catch
[50:33] basin in a parking lot
[50:36] behind businesses that you know are
[50:40] thriving businesses, restaurants,
[50:42] people, kids. um
[50:47] for us to expect that you wouldn't find
[50:49] it would be somewhat silly.
[50:53] Having said that,
[50:57] I've spent a good part of my career
[50:59] operating a sanitary sore system. Um 60
[51:04] miles of
[51:06] gravity sor lines, pumping stations,
[51:09] treatment plant. Um,
[51:13] and I've had these issues come up before
[51:17] and I hope I don't regret saying this.
[51:20] And I'm also going to say never say
[51:22] never. I don't know if this is true, but
[51:25] I do think it's highly unlikely that the
[51:28] sororine in the street is contributing
[51:31] to E.coli behind the buildings. And the
[51:35] reason I say that is this. So it's a
[51:37] gravity sore mane that's in the street.
[51:40] By definition, what that means is that
[51:44] sore mane is not under pressure. It does
[51:48] not flow full.
[51:50] Most of the time the cross-sectional
[51:54] area of that pipe is empty.
[51:58] So when the groundwater is elevated,
[52:02] water is going into the pipe. It's not
[52:05] coming out of the pipe. Okay. Um that's
[52:09] just the the plain physics of it. If we
[52:12] had so much inundation
[52:15] in that sewer line such that it was
[52:19] full,
[52:21] nobody on Main Street could flush a
[52:23] toilet. And guess what? The phone would
[52:25] ring.
[52:27] I don't I haven't heard that that's
[52:28] happening anywhere. So, um, based on my
[52:32] experience, that's what I think.
[52:35] Could it could I be wrong? I could be
[52:37] wrong. I absolutely could be wrong. Um,
[52:40] should we test more? Absolutely, we
[52:42] should test more. Should we become all
[52:45] become convinced that it's not uh the
[52:48] sanitary system that's causing uh, you
[52:51] know, the ecoli counts? Absolutely. So,
[52:55] um, I guess that's that's what I would
[52:57] have to say.
[53:01] So, the only thing I would add is um it concerned me a little that the tests
[53:09] that our representative, Representative
[53:12] Budman,
[53:14] had done by dees
[53:17] out in our dock at two areas, straddling
[53:22] one of the pipes. That is the concern.
[53:24] and over at the beach area were
[53:28] neglected
[53:30] by the group and this report because
[53:33] they said that it wasn't important to
[53:35] them. Well, all tests are important no
[53:38] matter,
[53:40] you know, who does the tests or not. Um,
[53:45] we did have two gentlemen that spoke
[53:47] tonight again that said it may be sewer
[53:49] cracks. We've had our DPW, we've had
[53:52] Stantech, we've had our town manager all
[53:54] said that that's not the way the system
[53:56] and hydraology works and they work with
[53:59] hydrarology on a regular basis. The rest
[54:01] of us don't. Um
[54:05] the very first test that was done that
[54:08] had high high levels, that was the one
[54:11] where um it was smelled coming out of a
[54:15] pipe. Um, I took the test results,
[54:18] didn't have the liquid, but took the
[54:20] test results to UNH. UNH looked at the
[54:23] test results and said, and they said
[54:26] based on the um, nitrogen levels and
[54:31] ammonia levels in that test that it was
[54:35] very unlikely that it could be human.
[54:39] Um, and I know that that puddle is a
[54:42] contaminated and dirty puddle.
[54:45] We all know that lots of puddles that
[54:47] back up and sit stagnant for a long time
[54:50] are very very contaminated.
[54:53] Um there's questions about how health
[54:59] issues are with fecal matter and ecoli.
[55:03] And I hate to say this, but you do. I go
[55:06] to the sandwich fair and I go to the
[55:08] deer fail fair and I walk through the
[55:11] barns and I walk down the streets and I
[55:14] watch them hosing off the animals with
[55:17] manure and water running through the
[55:19] barns and I watch a thousand people an
[55:23] hour walk through including kids and
[55:26] sitting down and eating ice cream and
[55:28] patting the animals that are rolling
[55:30] around in their manure. People are not
[55:32] dropping dead at the Sandwich Fair or
[55:34] the Topsfield Fair or the Deerfield
[55:36] Fair.
[55:38] I don't think, my personal opinion, that
[55:40] somebody walking through the puddle is
[55:42] going to all of a sudden become so sick
[55:45] that that they're going to be
[55:46] hospitalized. It should be taken care
[55:49] of. It needs to not go into the lake. We
[55:52] have an issue with the level of the pipe
[55:54] and the level of the lake and the
[55:55] backing up as um as uh it was said by
[56:01] Steve Randall and um and by the the
[56:05] group tonight and our town manager and
[56:07] it's going to be taken care of. But we
[56:09] don't want to have the public
[56:13] feel like they are in extreme harm and
[56:17] danger walking around our town docks
[56:19] because that is not the case. Also, so
[56:22] that people know, even though the tests
[56:24] were done and our town docks were found
[56:26] swimmable,
[56:28] the town docks are not for swimming.
[56:31] There are lots of boats there. There is
[56:34] duck and geese contamination that comes
[56:36] off of those docks every morning that
[56:39] has to be cleaned up so people can use
[56:41] the docks. And there's how high power
[56:43] cables that run underneath those docks
[56:45] for when we put in our um our water
[56:49] bubblers, our air raators to stop ice
[56:53] from freezing around them. So, it's not
[56:55] a safe place to swim. So, when someone
[56:57] says I wouldn't let my kids swim there,
[56:59] I hope you they wouldn't because it's no
[57:02] swimming zone. It's marked that and it's
[57:03] not a safe place to be. And by the way,
[57:05] all marinas around the lake are areas
[57:08] that I would never swim in or all dock
[57:11] areas. And that's all
[57:14] >> I hang on.
[57:15] >> I would like to address the question
[57:17] about Miss Budman's participation with
[57:20] dees.
[57:22] There's a reason that that was not in
[57:23] the report. The reason that was not in
[57:26] the report is when we delivered the
[57:28] report to this board on July 1st
[57:32] following that meeting, Miss Budman
[57:34] along with Miss Blahett and Sebastian
[57:39] and others
[57:41] met outside. Miss Budman was keenly
[57:45] interested in what was going on and
[57:47] wanted the details. And I made one very
[57:50] specific short statement. If you really
[57:52] want to know what's going on, take the
[57:54] time to understand this and then give us
[57:57] people to talk to so we can convey how
[58:00] the tests were done.
[58:03] That was the word how it would be done
[58:06] and there are witnesses to that
[58:08] conversation here. What took place was
[58:11] that meeting ended, those people left,
[58:14] Miss Budman left, and I spent the next
[58:17] several days, was turned into weeks,
[58:20] asking, "Where are we on this? Who am I
[58:22] going to talk to?" Nothing. Nothing. And
[58:25] then a test showed up from Mr. Neils of
[58:30] Dees, Renie Pelier, Dees. I find it
[58:34] curious. They live right in Wolfboro,
[58:36] but they're ghosts in this process.
[58:40] Every state rep that I know of was
[58:42] copied on this, but nobody thought and I was, but nobody thought to ask us
[58:48] where did we test, but yet they did
[58:50] tests in the deep water at the end of
[58:52] the docks and at Brewster Beach,
[58:55] which is not what we were talking about
[58:56] at all. And if you had taken the time
[58:59] and courtesy to ask the question, you'd
[59:02] have gotten that answer from us to not
[59:04] waste your energies in the wrong
[59:05] direction. Now, Mr. Sebastian would like
[59:08] to answer one other comment and then
[59:10] Linda has a question.
[59:11] >> No, I I want to I have to something I
[59:13] want to I'll do after he does that has
[59:16] some history. It's not going at what was
[59:18] done.
[59:21] » Let's have a one-word answer.
[59:24] >> Dilution.
[59:25] >> Yes.
[59:25] >> Okay. So if we put
[59:30] nasty water
[59:31] >> y
[59:31] >> into out of the pipe in between some
[59:34] area of the dock, I doubt very much
[59:37] you're going to see it at Brewster
[59:38] Beach, which is where the testing was
[59:40] done for this budman, and also near the
[59:43] end of the dock, which is where the
[59:45] other test was done. As to your comment
[59:47] about the nitrogen and ammonia, again, I
[59:50] use the same word, dilution. If it truly
[59:53] is groundwater, it's contaminated
[59:55] groundwater, okay? [snorts] It's not
[59:57] going to carry the full load of
[59:58] nitrogen. And also, by the way, if it is
[1:00:02] uh has any time to ferment, the nitrogen
[1:00:07] gets consumed and goes into some other
[1:00:10] sort of compound. It doesn't come out as
[1:00:12] pure nitrogen anymore. So no, I don't I
[1:00:17] don't uh and and the last item is that
[1:00:22] on that letter that you refer to which
[1:00:25] I've read
[1:00:26] >> which you have
[1:00:28] >> given me on numerous times uh I believe
[1:00:31] it was either the first second sentence
[1:00:32] or something like that they say that
[1:00:34] well you really shouldn't be doing this
[1:00:36] you really can't do this but you know as
[1:00:38] an educated guess. Okay so I take it as
[1:00:42] that an educated guess. I don't take it
[1:00:44] as gospel. Just like I say what what my
[1:00:47] theory is that it's contaminated
[1:00:49] groundwater. I don't take that as
[1:00:51] gospel. I'm telling you it's a theory.
[1:00:53] It's a thesis. I want to disprove it or
[1:00:57] prove it. One or the other.
[1:01:00] >> Thanks, Sebastian.
[1:01:00] >> Second. Jim,
[1:01:05] I understand what you're saying about
[1:01:06] the INI, the cracks or whatever, but if
[1:01:08] you have a pipe, and like I told you
[1:01:10] when we had this conversation a few days
[1:01:12] ago,
[1:01:14] nobody ever said anything or noticed
[1:01:16] anything about uh contaminated water,
[1:01:19] you know, nasty water or smells coming
[1:01:21] out of that uh pipe under the dock until
[1:01:24] right after we did the water man. So
[1:01:27] when I heard that or when this first
[1:01:29] happened, I said, 'Well, since we just
[1:01:31] did all this street work, is it possible
[1:01:33] that somebody hit the sewer line, is it
[1:01:36] possible that if the sewer line is below
[1:01:38] and they were compacting the ground and
[1:01:40] they were beating it with a uh an
[1:01:43] excavator shovel that they may have
[1:01:44] taken the lowest part of the pipe and
[1:01:47] done that and cracked the bottom of it.
[1:01:50] >> And then wouldn't it leak if there was a
[1:01:52] crack in the bottom of the pipe? not one
[1:01:55] of these small cracks or fissures that
[1:01:57] we're talking about during INI. I don't
[1:01:59] know. I think it's possible. I mean,
[1:02:02] I've seen I've worked around power
[1:02:03] plants. I've seen things you wouldn't
[1:02:05] believe could ever happen, but I've seen
[1:02:06] them. So, that's my rebuttal to all of
[1:02:11] this. It's still a theory. I'm not
[1:02:14] saying it's absolute, but it serves us better if we can test it
[1:02:22] and disprove it.
[1:02:24] Thank you, sir. Thank you, Linda.
[1:02:26] >> Yeah, I I want to go back and do a
[1:02:28] little history and and thank you for
[1:02:30] doing the testing. I you know, we all
[1:02:33] are concerned about the quarter quality
[1:02:35] of our water. But in September in uh
[1:02:40] 2017, Titan Bomb did an assessment of
[1:02:43] the town docks. Based on that
[1:02:45] assessment, the town started a fourphase
[1:02:48] uh project to repair the town docks. The
[1:02:51] town completed two the first three
[1:02:54] phases. The fourth phase was to repair
[1:02:58] the seaw wall in Smith River and redo
[1:03:02] the parking lot. Co hit in 2022. The
[1:03:07] town developed a large project to
[1:03:09] address water sewer drainage from
[1:03:12] Pickering Corner to the downtown Smith
[1:03:15] River Bridge. The drainage phase
[1:03:18] includes the dockside drainage system.
[1:03:21] In 2023, voters approved the first phase
[1:03:25] of an estimated $12 million water sewer
[1:03:28] drainage project from the Pickering
[1:03:30] Corner to the downtown Smith River with
[1:03:33] state grant funds including ARPA funds
[1:03:37] covering half of a $4 million cost of
[1:03:40] the water phase. In 2024,
[1:03:44] voters approved Warren Article 8 200,000
[1:03:48] and it passed by 66.7%
[1:03:51] to engineer the replacement of that
[1:03:54] sewer line. At a work session on
[1:03:57] September 30th, 2026,
[1:04:00] Steve Randall stated that he submitted
[1:04:03] to the CIP committee the replacement of
[1:04:07] the Pickering Corner to downtown Smith
[1:04:10] River Bridge sewer line for 2027
[1:04:15] and to start the engineering of the
[1:04:18] drainage system which would include the
[1:04:21] dockside parking uh lot drainage. I
[1:04:24] support following that plan and starting
[1:04:27] the engineering work on the drainage
[1:04:29] system from Pickering Corner to the
[1:04:32] downtown bridge which includes the dock
[1:04:35] side. I think it's time for us to have
[1:04:38] our engineers looking at it and coming
[1:04:40] up with a solution which will address
[1:04:42] your concern about our sewer pipe and
[1:04:46] will address our issues in terms of the
[1:04:49] drainage. This is on the table to get
[1:04:53] going. It's important that we get people
[1:04:54] out and support these warrant articles.
[1:04:57] >> The town knows it needs to do something
[1:05:01] in this area and that's where we've been
[1:05:03] working and it sometimes with government
[1:05:07] it takes a long time to get to the right
[1:05:10] place.
[1:05:11] >> Board members, anybody else?
[1:05:15] Dave, Brian,
[1:05:17] >> the only other thing the only thing that
[1:05:19] I want to just reiterate is the test
[1:05:23] from UNH was not a deep water test. It
[1:05:26] was a test that was done for water that
[1:05:29] came directly out of the first pipe that
[1:05:32] was found that's now capped off that had
[1:05:34] high levels. And the test results were
[1:05:38] not diluted based on that water being
[1:05:41] tested. there was not enough nitrogen
[1:05:44] and ammonia in it to say that it was
[1:05:47] human sewage. Whenever we've done a test
[1:05:51] through Stantech or dees or through our
[1:05:53] department of public works, they've
[1:05:55] followed the appropriate standards. Some
[1:05:58] people might not believe them, but they
[1:06:00] have followed the appropriate standards.
[1:06:02] When a test is done, if it has a high
[1:06:06] ecoli or um fecal matter test, they do a
[1:06:13] second test to check for
[1:06:16] uh DNA. Now, it's not none of the tests
[1:06:19] have shown that there's no DNA in it.
[1:06:22] They have shown inclusive what DNA it
[1:06:26] is. They've tested for um dogs, birds,
[1:06:30] and humans and have not found it. But
[1:06:33] they haven't tested for
[1:06:36] other things, rodents, rats,
[1:06:40] other mammals. You can only test for so
[1:06:43] many different things, as Jeff Owen
[1:06:45] said. But we know that it's not human
[1:06:49] septic that has been f every test we've
[1:06:52] done for species or that were analyzed
[1:06:56] even if a species test wasn't done none
[1:06:58] of them have come up with human DNA.
[1:07:03] >> Okay. Uh Brian, thank you for that.
[1:07:05] Thank you for uh for doing this. I'd
[1:07:07] like to just if I could
[1:07:12] add a thought. Um,
[1:07:17] so last week or the week before we had u
[1:07:21] Mr. Randall with his 22 episodes of
[1:07:25] testing. We've had these uh episodes of
[1:07:28] testing. We've had conversations,
[1:07:31] discussions about where it's coming
[1:07:33] from, why it's coming, where it might be
[1:07:35] coming from. Um,
[1:07:39] and again, not to be disrespectful, but
[1:07:41] stop.
[1:07:43] I I'm convinced that there's something
[1:07:45] going on down there.
[1:07:48] Just stop with the baloney. I mean, I'm
[1:07:50] convinced of it. I just don't know
[1:07:52] whether it's a real deal or not. I don't
[1:07:54] know how bad it is. I don't know where
[1:07:57] it's coming from. And I think that when
[1:08:00] I read Derek, when I read u your team's
[1:08:03] report and I and I looked at what we
[1:08:06] discussed the other day with Steve,
[1:08:10] I'm going to steal the line again from
[1:08:12] the town manager.
[1:08:15] You know, if you we're close to each
[1:08:17] other on saying there's a problem,
[1:08:20] something's hosed up.
[1:08:23] A project is going through capital
[1:08:25] improvement
[1:08:27] and it's up to the town manager and
[1:08:29] Steve and you folks to decide how you
[1:08:31] want to collaborate on how that project
[1:08:34] gets realized.
[1:08:36] Do we do drainage first? Do we do sewer
[1:08:38] first? Where do we start? That project
[1:08:41] right now is at the capital improvement
[1:08:43] stage and it's going to go on a Warren
[1:08:44] article this year unless we five of us
[1:08:47] decide we don't want to do that and I
[1:08:49] bet you we'd get
[1:08:51] >> we get thrown out the window. Um
[1:08:55] throwing money at the problem is a dumb
[1:08:57] idea.
[1:08:59] You guys generic term including Suzanne
[1:09:02] you guys are invested in it.
[1:09:06] We're invested in it. In my opinion,
[1:09:09] it's coming through CIP. It's going to
[1:09:11] come out the door for engineering and
[1:09:12] design.
[1:09:14] Whether you believe or don't believe,
[1:09:16] you know, the engineering firms we use,
[1:09:19] you know, have at it.
[1:09:22] But we I think, you know, I think
[1:09:24] they're good people.
[1:09:26] So we got to move towards
[1:09:36] a solution.
[1:09:38] We're debating data.
[1:09:42] Our data, your data, what time of day
[1:09:44] you took it, custody of uh of the
[1:09:46] samples, where it should have been done,
[1:09:48] where it didn't get done. I'm I'm
[1:09:50] personally and and you know, Mr.
[1:09:53] Thirsten,
[1:09:54] I remember when he was on the planning
[1:09:56] board,
[1:09:58] was barking about this a couple of years
[1:10:00] ago, saying, "We got to do something in
[1:10:01] that parking lot." I remember Linda
[1:10:04] saying, "We got to do something in that
[1:10:05] parking lot."
[1:10:07] >> Well, it's now time to start spending
[1:10:08] money if you want to do something in
[1:10:10] that parking lot. I don't know whether
[1:10:12] it's coming out of the Latchaw building
[1:10:13] or coming out of the Avery building. I I
[1:10:16] don't know whether we have a seam under
[1:10:17] to your point, I don't know. We have a
[1:10:18] seam underneath a sewer line. I don't
[1:10:21] know. You just got to go find it out.
[1:10:25] And that's what an engineering and
[1:10:27] design
[1:10:30] um
[1:10:32] initiative should be all about. And Jim
[1:10:34] has only been here now, I think it's a
[1:10:36] week and four days, five days. Um and
[1:10:39] he's going to have to get enscconced in
[1:10:41] what's going through CIP.
[1:10:43] Um
[1:10:46] and that's about all I have to say about
[1:10:47] it. I think I I like the idea we should
[1:10:50] do the testing in the springtime. Some
[1:10:51] people say should we do testing next
[1:10:53] month. I really don't give a rat's
[1:10:54] ankle. I just want to know what the
[1:10:57] solution is and I want to have a
[1:10:58] fullthroated debate with all of the
[1:11:01] people who have relevancy
[1:11:04] to the question, not irrelevancy to the
[1:11:07] question.
[1:11:08] So that's kind of where I come out on
[1:11:10] it. Thank you very much for doing this
[1:11:11] and I appreciate your report because
[1:11:13] when I read your recommend your summary
[1:11:14] and your recommendations, I couldn't
[1:11:16] help but believe that we're close. I
[1:11:18] mean, we're not we're not we're not in
[1:11:20] two different parts of the country here.
[1:11:21] We're not in two different zip codes.
[1:11:23] We're pretty close.
[1:11:26] I just encourage us all to put the the
[1:11:28] [clears throat] personal stuff down and
[1:11:30] we'll do the best we can on my side and
[1:11:33] uh move forward. Thank you everybody.
[1:11:36] Next item on our agenda is grant
[1:11:39] language update. I'm going to read
[1:11:41] something into the record to correct a
[1:11:43] motion and this is for the Wolf Bro
[1:11:45] Police Highway Safety Grant. So, Captain
[1:11:49] Libby, you wrote this for us and if I
[1:11:50] get it wrong again, just throw something
[1:11:54] at me. The select board in a majority
[1:11:56] vote accepted the terms of the highway
[1:11:57] safety grant as presented in the amount
[1:11:59] of $11,000.
[1:12:02] Did I get that right?
[1:12:05] We have to do that because people who uh
[1:12:07] write grants and approve grants are
[1:12:08] pretty uh pretty specific about what you
[1:12:11] have to do.
[1:12:14] Next item on the agenda is the uh rural
[1:12:17] roads committee.
[1:12:18] >> Mr. Chair, excuse me,
[1:12:19] >> Mr. Town Manager.
[1:12:21] >> I I did want to actually propose a
[1:12:24] slight edit um to that motion.
[1:12:27] >> Oh, no. Not to the captain. [laughter]
[1:12:31] It's it's very similar, but it would
[1:12:33] just make it um 100% clear. And so the
[1:12:37] language is to vote to accept the terms
[1:12:41] of the highway safety grant as
[1:12:43] prescribed in the amount of $11 million
[1:12:47] >> and to authorize the town manager to do
[1:12:49] all things to effectuate the grant,
[1:12:52] including applying and receiving funds.
[1:12:55] >> So moved.
[1:12:56] >> Second.
[1:12:57] >> It wasn't 11 million though, was it? I I
[1:12:59] was going to say it's not 11 million.
[1:13:02] >> 11,000. I'm sorry.
[1:13:03] >> It was 11 million.
[1:13:04] >> As amended.
[1:13:05] [laughter]
[1:13:06] >> All right. So, we have a motion.
[1:13:07] >> I want 11 million.
[1:13:09] >> For $11,000. You want to read it one
[1:13:10] more time, sir?
[1:13:12] >> Yes. Vote to accept the terms of the
[1:13:13] highway safety grant as presented in the
[1:13:16] amount of $11,000
[1:13:18] and to authorize the town manager to do
[1:13:20] all things to effectuate the grant,
[1:13:23] including applying and receiving funds.
[1:13:25] Could I get the board member to uh make
[1:13:28] that as a motion, please?
[1:13:29] >> I so moved.
[1:13:30] >> Can I get a second? Thank you.
[1:13:33] >> Any conversation?
[1:13:34] >> All those in favor? I
[1:13:36] >> Thank you very much.
[1:13:38] >> Thanks, Jim. Appreciate that.
[1:13:39] >> Sure.
[1:13:40] >> All right. The next item on the agenda
[1:13:41] is Rural Roads Committee.
[1:13:45] » Yes. I I'll speak to it since I was the
[1:13:48] select person who put out the ad. Um and
[1:13:52] I would like to table it. I got here
[1:13:54] tonight to find the list of people. We
[1:13:57] only got a couple in our our packet. Um
[1:14:01] and um I just would like to have a mix
[1:14:04] of people from all areas and there's
[1:14:06] some people and roads. I'm not quite
[1:14:08] sure where there are. If not, if the
[1:14:11] board doesn't want to do that, we can
[1:14:13] just kind of go down through. I will say
[1:14:16] I will call the first meeting to order
[1:14:18] and whoever's on it, somebody else is
[1:14:20] going to chair it. I'm just the person
[1:14:22] who's going to get the the committee
[1:14:24] established.
[1:14:25] >> So, we have a uh Have you made the
[1:14:26] motion, Linda?
[1:14:27] >> I I just want Why don't we first make
[1:14:29] comments before I make the motion? I
[1:14:31] don't know where the rest of me are.
[1:14:32] That's what I'm feeling. I didn't have a
[1:14:34] chance to really look at it, but if
[1:14:36] everybody else is comfortable, I would
[1:14:38] move ahead. If they aren't agree with
[1:14:40] me, then I will make a motion to table.
[1:14:43] >> The uh first item is just for the
[1:14:45] benefit of those people who are signing
[1:14:47] up. um we
[1:14:50] have kind of taken it as a practice and
[1:14:52] I don't know if it's a policy but a
[1:14:54] practice
[1:14:56] that select board members don't chair
[1:14:58] committees
[1:15:01] that members of the public chair
[1:15:02] committees
[1:15:04] and um so that's what Linda was saying
[1:15:06] is the first meeting
[1:15:09] the first person to speak comes the
[1:15:11] chair
[1:15:12] >> has to be chair could be a short meeting
[1:15:15] um so with that uh board members uh what
[1:15:19] do you want to do
[1:15:21] >> John?
[1:15:21] >> So you have you have seven names on this
[1:15:24] list. Are these the are these the seven
[1:15:26] that have contacted us to be on the
[1:15:29] committee?
[1:15:30] >> That's correct.
[1:15:30] >> Correct.
[1:15:31] >> And we said that we were going to
[1:15:33] convene a committee.
[1:15:36] >> The people have spoken who want to be on
[1:15:39] the committee.
[1:15:40] >> So I would make a motion to adopt all
[1:15:43] these names for the rural roads
[1:15:45] committee.
[1:15:47] I have a motion.
[1:15:52] » Well, we didn't specify how many.
[1:15:57] >> I thought we talked about five and then
[1:15:59] with myself and Steve Randall was what I
[1:16:03] thought that made the seven that I think
[1:16:05] we talked about last time.
[1:16:07] >> Yeah.
[1:16:08] >> I mean, we can change it. That's
[1:16:10] >> Yeah. Right.
[1:16:10] >> You know,
[1:16:12] >> Mr. Thirsten has a motion. I'll second
[1:16:15] that.
[1:16:16] >> We have a motion and a second
[1:16:18] conversation.
[1:16:21] >> I just think that there are a lot in the
[1:16:23] same area. Um,
[1:16:27] and that means that the votes go
[1:16:31] in a certain way and that's what
[1:16:33] concerns me. That's why we were going to
[1:16:35] kind of spread it out. But if that's the
[1:16:38] majority of the board, I I I can go on.
[1:16:40] I
[1:16:40] >> mean, this this is advisory. Am I
[1:16:42] correct?
[1:16:43] >> Correct. But we're trying to figure out
[1:16:46] how we want to put together the
[1:16:50] guidelines that we hope will control
[1:16:53] what happens.
[1:16:55] >> Anybody else?
[1:16:56] >> Yep.
[1:16:57] >> John.
[1:16:57] >> So I think what we see here is we have
[1:17:01] equal representation to each road in the
[1:17:04] area. Actually, Mr. Dohy, Mr. Hopewell,
[1:17:08] uh I don't know where Mr. Bower is,
[1:17:10] Kayla Hewitt, and Mr. Rosener. They all
[1:17:12] live on all different rural roads
[1:17:14] >> in the in North Wolf Bar.
[1:17:17] >> Are there other rural roads in town?
[1:17:18] That was my my concern. But
[1:17:22] >> I would vote them all in or if that's
[1:17:24] where the majority wants. That's why I
[1:17:27] asked for us to have a conversation.
[1:17:28] >> So I'm I'm I'm having the conversation
[1:17:30] with you and I think that's where most
[1:17:32] of our rural roads are uh the focus
[1:17:35] right now.
[1:17:39] » Anybody else?
[1:17:41] my name on that list.
[1:17:43] >> No, it's not Charlene.
[1:17:49] » Well, we had See, we had a date,
[1:17:51] >> right,
[1:17:52] >> of October 2nd.
[1:17:56] >> All right, it's closed. I'd just like to
[1:17:58] remind the select board that at the very
[1:18:01] first meeting last April when you
[1:18:04] establish you voted to establish this
[1:18:06] committee, I stood up in front of this
[1:18:09] assembly and publicly volunteered to
[1:18:12] serve on that committee and I
[1:18:15] >> would be surprised if all of you managed
[1:18:17] to forget that.
[1:18:21] » Okay. Well,
[1:18:22] >> I didn't forget that, Charlene. And uh
[1:18:25] the the discussion was rebrought up
[1:18:31] after
[1:18:32] uh a month ago.
[1:18:34] >> Well, her name isn't on here. So,
[1:18:37] >> so if I would add her name to it because
[1:18:40] she did
[1:18:40] >> Okay, that's that's I'm I'm fine with it
[1:18:44] because I think I remember you do
[1:18:46] standing up. We did put an I did have an
[1:18:49] ad in the in on the town website and it
[1:18:52] was in the paper and it was October 2nd
[1:18:55] was the date
[1:18:58] is too much information.
[1:19:04] So, if there's too many people on the on
[1:19:06] the list, is that is that too many?
[1:19:09] You're you're asking for people to
[1:19:12] be a part of a committee and they all
[1:19:15] represent a different area of the town
[1:19:17] [snorts] and they're they're all road
[1:19:19] owners of different locations, I don't
[1:19:21] really see the problem. If they if they
[1:19:24] want to drop out on the committee and
[1:19:25] they think that there's too many people
[1:19:26] and they can't get together, then then
[1:19:29] let them decide that. I
[1:19:32] >> a hand just went up in the audience of
[1:19:33] another person. [snorts]
[1:19:36] >> Well, I whatever. You know, I think we I
[1:19:40] think you set a time frame. You you you
[1:19:43] advertise for it and people need to
[1:19:45] respond and then all of a sudden anybody
[1:19:47] comes to a meeting. You know, I
[1:19:51] >> I think we should just
[1:19:53] >> I read that I read that notice at a
[1:19:55] meeting so people would know it. Um I
[1:19:58] don't care how many people are on it.
[1:20:00] >> [music]
[1:20:00] >> We had talked as a board, the reason I
[1:20:02] brought this up, we had talked to the
[1:20:04] board about the number. We had a long
[1:20:06] discussion about whether the public
[1:20:09] works director could be on it. This is
[1:20:11] what we had said. That is why I came
[1:20:14] forward and may and am talking about it
[1:20:16] now. If we want to put them all on,
[1:20:19] that's fine. But I was going from what
[1:20:21] we had said prior.
[1:20:23] >> So I I would do it two ways. Two
[1:20:25] different ways. You can either put them
[1:20:27] all on or you can take and we have if
[1:20:29] Derek is now on wants to be on two. You
[1:20:32] got one, two, three, four, five, six,
[1:20:34] seven, eight, nine.
[1:20:35] >> Stacy.
[1:20:36] wants to be on too.
[1:20:38] [clears throat]
[1:20:39] >> Oh, does Derek want to be on? Stacy.
[1:20:42] Okay, so here we go. It's it's it's
[1:20:43] growing. One, two, hold on. One, two,
[1:20:47] three, four, five, six, seven, eight,
[1:20:49] nine, 10 in addition to Steve, Randall,
[1:20:52] and Linda. So I would say that at our
[1:20:56] next meeting we take 10 [snorts] names
[1:20:59] in a hat, we draw them out and and we
[1:21:02] pick out five and then you have a
[1:21:04] committee of seven.
[1:21:05] >> There's a question in the audience.
[1:21:09] >> We're we're discussing it here, John.
[1:21:10] >> Yeah.
[1:21:11] >> Well, we just let people from the
[1:21:12] audience come up. We people stand up.
[1:21:15] >> You know, my feeling is if he raises his
[1:21:18] hand, he should be able to say it
[1:21:19] because you let people stand up and come
[1:21:21] to the phone.
[1:21:23] got a question.
[1:21:24] >> I [snorts] mean, I think that's a fair
[1:21:26] way to do it is pick five out of a hat.
[1:21:31] » Well, [cough and clears throat] either
[1:21:32] >> all Russer Wolfsboro,
[1:21:35] >> uh, the suggestion that you've made, Mr.
[1:21:38] Duche is poor.
[1:21:39] >> You don't choose is poor.
[1:21:41] >> Well, I said all or pick it out of a
[1:21:43] hat.
[1:21:45] >> You pick out the people who you think
[1:21:46] are best suited. Okay, that's number
[1:21:48] one. Number two,
[1:21:51] uh I think correct me if I'm wrong, Mrs.
[1:21:53] Murray, but we've convened such a
[1:21:55] committee in 2018.
[1:21:57] >> We did.
[1:21:57] And I was a member of that
[1:22:00] committee, that committee worked
[1:22:02] >> amicably and amiably together. And the
[1:22:05] only thing I would say as to the numbers
[1:22:08] >> is that in a committee like this, at any
[1:22:10] given meeting of the committee,
[1:22:13] two, three, four people don't show up.
[1:22:15] >> So you're not going to have 10 people
[1:22:17] there. And that's perfectly explainable.
[1:22:19] It's understandable that the work of the
[1:22:21] committee can go forward because the
[1:22:24] members who are there assembled have a
[1:22:27] common consciousness of what's been
[1:22:28] discussed and what the next meeting
[1:22:30] might be about. So I think that solves
[1:22:32] the problem of the number.
[1:22:34] >> Thank you.
[1:22:34] >> Thanks Claude. And well, I would say
[1:22:37] this of the people on this list, I am
[1:22:40] not going to discount any as not being
[1:22:42] capable because that would be very, I
[1:22:45] think, um, pompous of me to say that
[1:22:49] some people are more intelligent or more
[1:22:52] suited to be on a committee than others.
[1:22:54] I wouldn't know what they would bring
[1:22:56] until they came to the committee and
[1:22:58] spoke and and and showed up.
[1:23:00] >> Great.
[1:23:00] >> So, if you want all of them, then have
[1:23:03] all of them,
[1:23:03] >> Linda? Well, you know, I I believe with
[1:23:06] Stacy Pope on here, it gives some to
[1:23:09] another section of town, and that's kind
[1:23:12] of what I think there needs to be some
[1:23:14] kind of a balance. That was one of my
[1:23:15] problems with the first group. Thank
[1:23:17] you,
[1:23:18] >> son.
[1:23:20] >> But you said it earlier, Linda, there
[1:23:22] was a date set for people to sign up.
[1:23:24] >> Yes, I did.
[1:23:26] >> They did not.
[1:23:27] >> That's correct.
[1:23:29] So, if we keep going to our meetings and
[1:23:32] people keep volunteering and
[1:23:34] volunteering, some of these committees
[1:23:36] are going to get out of hand. But I
[1:23:37] don't have a problem with the numbers. I
[1:23:40] think they're all from that general
[1:23:41] area.
[1:23:43] Some of them have buted heads in the
[1:23:46] past.
[1:23:47] >> It's okay.
[1:23:48] >> So, and I don't have a problem with
[1:23:49] that. I don't I don't really care how
[1:23:51] many are on it. I think we ought to get
[1:23:53] it started.
[1:23:55] >> Stand. Mr. Pardon, would you introduce
[1:23:57] yourself, please? Mike Parton,
[1:23:58] >> thank you.
[1:23:59] >> If we're going to split hairs over
[1:24:00] technicalities,
[1:24:01] as a select person Murray acknowledged,
[1:24:06] Charlene Cybel had volunteered and she's
[1:24:08] not on the list. So, if you're going to
[1:24:11] >> Yep.
[1:24:12] >> not include people who volunteered by
[1:24:15] the date, then you need to include
[1:24:17] people who do volunteer subsequent of
[1:24:19] the date.
[1:24:20] >> Thanks for that.
[1:24:20] >> Just my opinion.
[1:24:21] >> Yep. Thanks for that.
[1:24:23] >> Okay, folks.
[1:24:25] [sighs] We want to do
[1:24:27] We can move the the list. John,
[1:24:30] >> call the question on all the people that
[1:24:32] have signed up for the list.
[1:24:33] >> Do you want to read them?
[1:24:34] >> Let's read the Let's read the name so
[1:24:36] there's no ambiguity.
[1:24:37] >> These are the three. And Derek Brown,
[1:24:39] did you say you wanted to be on it?
[1:24:42] >> Okay. So, the new ones are that aren't
[1:24:44] listed as Charlene, uh, Cyos, Stacy
[1:24:47] Pope, and Derek Brown.
[1:24:48] >> Let's read the entire list, though, if
[1:24:50] you wouldn't mind. So then we're going
[1:24:51] to add Kayla Hewitt, Claude Rosinger,
[1:24:53] Jonathan Hopewell, Ryan Bower, Jonathan
[1:24:56] Dohy, John Larson, and Brad Herman, and
[1:25:00] Stacy and Derek
[1:25:02] >> and Charlene.
[1:25:04] >> That's the list.
[1:25:06] >> And Steve Randall, and Linda.
[1:25:08] >> Yes, Steve is a standing member of the
[1:25:09] committee.
[1:25:10] >> And I am.
[1:25:11] >> And Linda.
[1:25:12] >> Yep.
[1:25:12] >> Okay, that's the list. Can I get a
[1:25:14] motion to accept that as the rural roads
[1:25:16] committee, please?
[1:25:18] >> So moved.
[1:25:19] >> I have a motion. I have a second. Did we
[1:25:21] already have a motion?
[1:25:22] >> Yes, we did.
[1:25:23] >> But at that No, but at that point, we
[1:25:25] didn't have all the names on it. The
[1:25:27] motion
[1:25:27] >> it was already,
[1:25:28] >> but the motion was before we added three
[1:25:30] names.
[1:25:31] >> So, this I would say this is this is the
[1:25:35] motion that is
[1:25:37] >> we can
[1:25:37] >> unless unless anybody's got a problem.
[1:25:39] I'm just going to say that we're going
[1:25:40] to back out that prior motion. I'm going
[1:25:42] to re ask that you put a motion on to
[1:25:44] accept that out a list of candidates for
[1:25:47] rural roads committee. Can I get a
[1:25:48] second?
[1:25:50] I'll second that.
[1:25:50] >> I got a motion and a second. Any more
[1:25:52] conversation?
[1:25:54] >> We're ready to go.
[1:25:55] >> Yep.
[1:25:55] >> All those in favor? I
[1:25:57] >> I.
[1:25:58] >> We're good. Unanimous.
[1:26:00] >> Can I say anybody who just signed up, if
[1:26:03] you would make sure that Amy has your
[1:26:06] email.
[1:26:07] >> I will send out the first email, try to
[1:26:09] come up with the date. All of you think
[1:26:12] and decide who might want to be chair.
[1:26:15] >> Yeah. First person who speaks gets to be
[1:26:17] the chair.
[1:26:21] Okay.
[1:26:22] All right. Next item on the agenda is
[1:26:24] the uh procurement policy. Uh last time
[1:26:27] we visited with uh our finance director
[1:26:29] who if you haven't met in Adam um uh I
[1:26:33] think there was an ask by uh one of our
[1:26:35] board members made that uh made that
[1:26:38] adjustment.
[1:26:40] >> Make a motion to uh approve the uh
[1:26:42] procurement policy. Please
[1:26:44] >> so moved. Second.
[1:26:45] >> I have a motion and a second. And all
[1:26:47] those in favor? I.
[1:26:48] >> We're good.
[1:26:50] >> Like to get a motion to move into the
[1:26:51] Libby trustees meeting.
[1:26:53] >> So move.
[1:26:54] >> Second.
[1:26:55] >> Have a motion and a second. Okay. So
[1:26:57] we're uh All those in favor? I
[1:26:59] >> I.
[1:27:00] >> We're in. Okay. Good. Um couple of
[1:27:02] things. Mr. uh uh Mr. Duchets uh wants
[1:27:05] to update us on a few items. We'll have
[1:27:08] a conversation about what's going on
[1:27:09] with the uh with the charitable trust. I
[1:27:12] think people are interested in knowing
[1:27:14] about that. So Brian, uh, we'll leave it
[1:27:16] with you. We'll start it up.
[1:27:17] >> So, um, we've been doing a a little bit
[1:27:20] of, um, work on trying to figure out the
[1:27:23] best way to,
[1:27:26] uh, move and store the artifacts. We've
[1:27:29] had some artifacts that um, loaners have
[1:27:33] come back and had returned to them
[1:27:34] because they wanted their artifacts
[1:27:36] back. So, we have a lot of moving
[1:27:40] pieces. We have um just um Amy Capomio,
[1:27:45] our administrative assistant to the town
[1:27:48] manager who's trying to make sure that
[1:27:51] things are found, things get back to
[1:27:53] people. Moving companies are hired,
[1:27:55] moving companies keep backing out. Um
[1:27:58] that all the all the um artifacts get
[1:28:02] someplace safe and we were hoping before
[1:28:05] the snow flies this winter. So, um, I've
[1:28:08] been helping her a little bit, but I
[1:28:10] thought it would be a much better idea
[1:28:14] if we got some more horsepower behind
[1:28:16] this. So, I have a draft letter that I
[1:28:20] would like the board to approve. Um, and
[1:28:22] it is, dear uh, friends of the Libby
[1:28:26] Museum and Libby Museum Preservation
[1:28:28] Society. The Libby uh, Museum trustees
[1:28:31] would like to form a subcommittee. The
[1:28:34] subcommittee would have one member from
[1:28:36] each group, the Libby Museum trustees,
[1:28:39] the friends of the Libby Museum, and the
[1:28:41] Libby Museum Preservation Society as
[1:28:44] members. The objective is to work
[1:28:46] jointly and share expenses equally as we
[1:28:50] finalize a plan to move and store the
[1:28:53] artifacts. I believe that all need to
[1:28:56] work toward accomplishing this endeavor.
[1:28:58] Please respond as soon as possible so
[1:29:01] that we can move the artifacts into safe
[1:29:04] storage. So this um if the board
[1:29:06] approves, I want this to be sent out to
[1:29:09] those two groups. Um I'm already
[1:29:12] kneedeep in this because I I was the one
[1:29:16] that went and found the appraiser who is
[1:29:18] will be finishing the appraisal in um
[1:29:22] the second week of November. They're
[1:29:24] behind schedule a little because they
[1:29:25] found out that there was a lot more
[1:29:26] artifacts that had to do research on
[1:29:28] than they thought. Um I I've been
[1:29:31] helping Amy and meeting with moving
[1:29:34] companies down at the Libby Museum.
[1:29:37] We're looking for people to store it and
[1:29:39] we've been reaching out to different um
[1:29:41] museum organizations in the northeast to
[1:29:45] find people that would take some of our
[1:29:47] artifacts on loan, some of the large
[1:29:49] ones to keep them safe in a good
[1:29:52] environment where the public could still
[1:29:54] see them. They would be on loan and we
[1:29:56] could get them back. But that entails us
[1:29:58] finding all the people that loan them,
[1:30:01] contacting them, making sure they will
[1:30:03] allow us to move them to another
[1:30:05] location, or do they want them back?
[1:30:08] There's a lot of work involved in this,
[1:30:10] and we could use some help. And I would
[1:30:13] hope that I could get a representative
[1:30:15] from each of those two boards
[1:30:17] to come and um help and if they could
[1:30:23] even have their members assist them so
[1:30:27] that the more hands we have on this the
[1:30:30] quicker and easier it will happen. Um I
[1:30:33] did get a call today from uh Jeff
[1:30:35] Okonnell from the friends of the Libby
[1:30:38] Museum. He is going to bring this up
[1:30:40] with his group. We have a meeting in
[1:30:43] November because tomorrow's was
[1:30:45] cancelled. They cancelled that meeting.
[1:30:48] We're running out of time for this
[1:30:49] winter to get the stuff out. If it
[1:30:51] doesn't get [snorts] out, it stays in
[1:30:52] the building for another winter that's
[1:30:54] not doing the artifacts any good. And
[1:30:57] the building structurally should make it
[1:30:59] through the winter. Unless we have a
[1:31:01] real real bad winter with a lot of heavy
[1:31:03] snow that builds up on it, you never
[1:31:04] know what would happen with leaks and
[1:31:06] cracks in in an old building. So that's
[1:31:09] what I am.
[1:31:10] >> Yeah. I I I support um this letter. I
[1:31:13] support having a key person in each of
[1:31:17] these groups, but I believe with the
[1:31:20] amount of artifacts there and the amount
[1:31:23] of work that needs to be done, it's
[1:31:25] going to take members of each of those
[1:31:27] groups. This is a we've wanted to get
[1:31:30] those artifacts out of that museum for
[1:31:32] at least two years now. And um I support
[1:31:36] us putting some more um speed on doing
[1:31:40] it. We have, as Brian said, we have
[1:31:42] tried all sorts of different ways and we
[1:31:45] get to it and there's um a roadblock. Um
[1:31:49] and I think getting this organized, all
[1:31:51] three P groups working together is the
[1:31:54] right way for us to move forward.
[1:31:58] >> I agree. This is one of these uh Paul
[1:32:02] says stop kind of moments. Uh for the
[1:32:06] past year and a half, we've been sending
[1:32:07] letters back and forth to each other,
[1:32:08] volunteering to help each other, and it
[1:32:11] really hasn't gotten traction.
[1:32:13] I introduced a very bad word to some
[1:32:15] people called de accessioning that I was
[1:32:18] yelled at to do.
[1:32:21] The collection needs to find a way out
[1:32:24] of the building or it needs to stay in
[1:32:26] the building. It's one or the other. And
[1:32:29] we we need to put some resources against
[1:32:31] that to update our our policies, make
[1:32:35] sure that uh if somebody says they want
[1:32:37] something back that they can get it
[1:32:39] back, provided that we can demonstrate
[1:32:42] to the court that they legitimately are
[1:32:44] the owner donor.
[1:32:48] and to and to expect uh Amy and and and
[1:32:51] this person here to do that in my view
[1:32:56] is uh is not scale.
[1:32:58] It's it's subscale.
[1:33:01] It's not smart.
[1:33:03] And so um we took the decision with you
[1:33:07] folks to not tear the building down.
[1:33:10] That building is, as we said, a little
[1:33:12] bit raiky shaky. We want to [snorts] get
[1:33:15] the collection moved. If we can't, then
[1:33:18] we have to go to plan B. And I have no
[1:33:19] idea what that is. And I think what
[1:33:22] Brian has done is pretty I and I
[1:33:24] congratulate you for doing it, but it's
[1:33:26] hard. We got folks who walk in the
[1:33:28] building from a a prospective move point
[1:33:31] of view and they go, "No,
[1:33:33] nope, not doing it." So, we got to get
[1:33:35] some traction here. And that's uh with
[1:33:37] the newly formed groups to sit down in a
[1:33:40] room and figure out how to do that, I
[1:33:42] think is a smart thing to do. And we do
[1:33:44] have a letter from the friends of the
[1:33:46] Libby Museum dated January 21st, 2026
[1:33:50] that is reaffirming their November 19th,
[1:33:53] 2025 letter that said that they will
[1:33:55] assist us with um
[1:33:59] moving the collection, cleaning and
[1:34:01] moving the collection into a safe
[1:34:03] location.
[1:34:03] >> So board members, uh there is a letter
[1:34:06] uh sponsored by Mr. Duchets. Does
[1:34:07] anybody John go ahead? So, this is kind
[1:34:11] of like the kid who was supposed to take
[1:34:13] the test, but he didn't decide to test
[1:34:16] uh do the studying till the night
[1:34:18] before. We've been kicking this can down
[1:34:21] the road. Thankfully, Brian, you did do
[1:34:24] a lot of work. I do appreciate that, but
[1:34:27] we are running out the clock. We are We
[1:34:29] This was supposed to be done two years
[1:34:31] ago that we were supposed to do this
[1:34:35] >> and we're not going to use Amy's
[1:34:37] resources up. We're not going to eat up
[1:34:40] Brian's leftover energy to make it all
[1:34:43] happen. We need to hire somebody as one
[1:34:46] contact, one head who will facilitate
[1:34:49] the whole mission and be there all the
[1:34:53] time so that when stuff gets moved,
[1:34:56] movers come, they're there. They keep
[1:34:59] track of everything. It's one focus, one
[1:35:02] person, one entity. Then it's not all
[1:35:05] scattered. It's not a bunch of broken
[1:35:07] pieces. We need we have money in our
[1:35:10] bank account.
[1:35:13] » Not a lot. [snorts] I think the uh
[1:35:16] capital reserve account on the Libby is
[1:35:18] 80,000.
[1:35:19] >> Yeah.
[1:35:19] >> And uh uh last week when we did budget
[1:35:22] for the Libby
[1:35:24] um we moved the salary line down to the
[1:35:27] consulting line. So we picked up some
[1:35:28] money. All right. To do that and I'm not
[1:35:30] trying to be pecuniary about it. But the
[1:35:33] point of this is to your point, we we
[1:35:35] got to get some muscle on this thing and
[1:35:38] not part-time it
[1:35:41] leftover effort. I think Amy's probably
[1:35:43] doing cartwheels at home if this
[1:35:45] actually were to turn out. So, anything
[1:35:46] else from that, John? No. Thank you for
[1:35:48] that, Brian. Thank you. So, we got a
[1:35:50] letter here. Um, does any Go ahead.
[1:35:52] >> I I agree with John. We need one person,
[1:35:54] but to find somebody right now is going
[1:35:58] to be incredibly difficult. to find
[1:36:00] someone that is going to want to work
[1:36:02] full time moving those out. If somebody
[1:36:04] comes to us, but in the meantime, we
[1:36:07] can't just sit and wait.
[1:36:09] >> I think I think you're going to get more
[1:36:10] muscle eyes.
[1:36:11] >> I mean, to give to give an example, I've made some phone calls and I just
[1:36:14] need some help following up. the New
[1:36:17] England
[1:36:19] um Herbatlogical Society, which is a
[1:36:23] society that um specializes in reptiles,
[1:36:26] said that they would take, if we could
[1:36:28] deliver or get it delivered, the
[1:36:31] alligator and the large snapping turtle.
[1:36:34] That's two big items out of that museum
[1:36:36] that would then go into their facility
[1:36:39] to be stored, seen, loaned, and they
[1:36:41] would give back. The Dover Woodward
[1:36:44] Museum said that they showed in they
[1:36:47] showed interest to me in the skeletons
[1:36:49] and some of the large um
[1:36:55] artifacts, some of the the moose, the
[1:36:57] polar bear, things like that that they
[1:36:59] would be interested in those. Um, we
[1:37:03] had, um, talking to Libby Shannon from
[1:37:07] the Clock Museum. She said that she
[1:37:09] would be able to potentially take the
[1:37:11] firearms that are in there because
[1:37:13] they're period correct for the Clark
[1:37:14] Museum.
[1:37:15] >> Um, we have our librarian, Allison
[1:37:18] Rutley, who said that the collection of 10 or eight or 10 fans, oriental fans
[1:37:24] that are all nice in glass cases, that
[1:37:26] she could display those at the library.
[1:37:30] So, with a few people helping, we can
[1:37:33] start at least getting some of that
[1:37:34] stuff out of the way. Another
[1:37:36] possibility is taking and getting a
[1:37:39] conditioned um storage container put
[1:37:42] behind the building that would run AC
[1:37:45] and heat and moving a lot of the fragile
[1:37:48] artifacts, the taxiderermy and some of
[1:37:50] those directly to around the back of the
[1:37:53] building and put into a trailer that
[1:37:56] would stay there plugged in with
[1:37:58] electricity running. This is all stuff
[1:38:01] that can be that can be done but it
[1:38:03] shouldn't be done by one trustee of the
[1:38:05] select board and it shouldn't be done
[1:38:07] with a trustee of the select board
[1:38:10] making all these calls and then coming
[1:38:11] back to the other trustees and then
[1:38:13] asking the society the prevention the
[1:38:16] society for the protection of the living
[1:38:18] and asking the I mean I I can't be just
[1:38:20] going all in all different directions.
[1:38:22] >> Murray
[1:38:23] >> with a group we could do this together
[1:38:25] and at least get a lot of this stuff in
[1:38:28] safe places. Miss Murray.
[1:38:30] >> Yeah, I I am 100% behind, Brian, is that
[1:38:33] we have you have three key people who
[1:38:36] brings the direction back to the board,
[1:38:39] their boards and different members help
[1:38:42] to try to get this done. Brian's got a
[1:38:44] lot of it done. If we can get some of
[1:38:45] the stuff out of there, give him some
[1:38:48] help in making calls or being places, we
[1:38:52] all come out ahead. We've gotten more
[1:38:54] stuff out of there. And while we're
[1:38:56] doing this, all three groups can reach
[1:39:00] out and try and find somebody that can
[1:39:02] assist full-time. That would be
[1:39:04] absolutely fantastic. Someone for the
[1:39:06] next three months of full-time would not
[1:39:08] be a huge huge lift of money. It's not
[1:39:10] going to use up the whole 80,000 and we
[1:39:13] could pass it over to them or have them
[1:39:15] manage
[1:39:17] >> our efforts. It's it's a good idea. like
[1:39:20] you got the guy to come in and assess it
[1:39:22] and we thought he was going to be able
[1:39:25] to take in store and that he can't. We
[1:39:28] kind of go to a spot and we think we've
[1:39:31] got it and it falls apart. I'm with him.
[1:39:34] Let's now we start doing as much as we
[1:39:36] can and John if we can find somebody
[1:39:40] that's even better.
[1:39:41] >> We we've
[1:39:42] >> we just can't sit still. We've had three
[1:39:44] moving companies come and look and the
[1:39:47] condition of the cases. The glass on
[1:39:50] them is not um tempered glass. Um a lot
[1:39:54] of it is rickety. The the movers are
[1:39:57] petrified to move the skeletons because
[1:39:59] they think that the minute they go to
[1:40:00] lift up the skeletons, they're all going
[1:40:02] to fall apart in a pile on them. Um the
[1:40:04] skeleton cases are built into the wall
[1:40:06] of the building. So they basically have
[1:40:08] to be either unscrewed or cut off the
[1:40:10] walls. So now those skeletons can't be
[1:40:13] stored in those cases anywhere. This is
[1:40:15] way more complex. And this is what I
[1:40:17] found out talking to three different
[1:40:19] moving companies and looking at the
[1:40:21] stuff in the museum. This is not snap
[1:40:22] your fingers like we thought 5 years ago
[1:40:25] and move everything out to rebuild a new
[1:40:26] museum. Mm- It's not going to be that
[1:40:29] way.
[1:40:29] >> So it sounds like something we were
[1:40:30] talking about earlier tonight. A lot of
[1:40:32] data here, John. So the other
[1:40:34] complication is, you know, when it gets
[1:40:36] cold, things get brittle and then you
[1:40:38] start compromising the artifacts when
[1:40:41] they get cold
[1:40:42] >> and the building's been cold for a lot
[1:40:43] of years.
[1:40:45] >> It has, but when but when they're cold
[1:40:47] and then you go to move them, that's
[1:40:49] when you chip, you break things don't
[1:40:52] the molecular movement isn't that good.
[1:40:56] >> Linda.
[1:40:56] >> Yeah. I'd like to make a motion that we
[1:40:58] send the draft letter that was drafted
[1:41:01] by uh Brian.
[1:41:04] >> Yep.
[1:41:06] >> That's my motion.
[1:41:06] >> I have a motion.
[1:41:08] >> Second.
[1:41:09] >> I got a motion and a second. Thank you
[1:41:11] for doing this, Brian.
[1:41:15] » All those in favor? I
[1:41:17] >> All right, we're good.
[1:41:18] >> I got a Nope. I got a second motion. I
[1:41:21] make a motion that Brian is our
[1:41:23] representative.
[1:41:26] Second.
[1:41:28] >> Thanks. Okay. Thanks.
[1:41:29] >> I'm already knee deep. So, I'll help
[1:41:32] Brian. I will help you. I have a motion
[1:41:33] in a second for u uh for Brian to be our
[1:41:37] representative and I'll gladly help you.
[1:41:39] Um any conversation? Anybody else want
[1:41:41] to chip in?
[1:41:43] All those in favor of uh Brian being our
[1:41:45] representative? I
[1:41:47] >> I
[1:41:47] >> Okay, we're good.
[1:41:49] >> Um uh appraisal update, Brian, we
[1:41:51] received Or you want to do it or you
[1:41:53] want me to do it? What do you want to
[1:41:54] do? Well, I think I mentioned already,
[1:41:55] but it's um we received a letter from a
[1:41:58] to an email to Amy from the [snorts]
[1:42:01] um New Hampshire um
[1:42:05] preservation. No, what are they? They're
[1:42:07] um
[1:42:07] >> the appraiser.
[1:42:07] Um yeah, they um thought
[1:42:11] that they would have a three-month
[1:42:12] appraisal. It's turned into almost a
[1:42:14] four-month appraisal. They're going to
[1:42:16] take an extra three weeks and um they'll
[1:42:19] be done by November 11th.
[1:42:21] >> Mid November.
[1:42:22] >> Yeah. which is which is a good thing
[1:42:24] because as we're putting things away,
[1:42:26] we'll know what is the most valuable
[1:42:29] stuff that really needs to be cared for.
[1:42:32] >> If it if we find out that the skeletons
[1:42:34] are are incredibly valuable, then that's
[1:42:36] something that we need to focus on as as
[1:42:39] a group and get those someplace safe.
[1:42:42] >> Charitable trust update. Um if you want,
[1:42:44] I'll do that. Uh we did uh uh in late
[1:42:48] September send a letter uh four
[1:42:51] signatures on that letter uh to Nathan
[1:42:54] town council asking uh him to uh have a
[1:42:57] chat with uh the charitable trust. That
[1:42:59] conversation did take place. The
[1:43:01] charitable trust is uh talking to the
[1:43:03] attorney general as to u u as to the
[1:43:07] next steps. The letter for those of you
[1:43:09] who didn't see it, the letter said that
[1:43:11] we are asking for a sitdown with the CTU
[1:43:15] with the name leadership team of both
[1:43:18] the friends as well as the uh Libby
[1:43:20] Museum preservation team. Uh so that's
[1:43:24] about all I can tell you on that. More
[1:43:26] to come. Okay. Any other business in
[1:43:29] Libby?
[1:43:32] >> I'll make a motion to come out of the
[1:43:33] Libby museum trustees meeting. I have a
[1:43:35] motion uh to come out of the Liby
[1:43:36] trustees meeting and a second.
[1:43:40] >> Second.
[1:43:40] >> Have a second for Mr. Cynicle. All those
[1:43:42] in favor? I please.
[1:43:44] >> I.
[1:43:44] >> Okay. Next item in the agenda is
[1:43:46] >> Oh, and Paul, it's just it's the New
[1:43:47] Hampshire Antique Co-op. They're in
[1:43:49] Milford, New Hampshire. Um they're the
[1:43:52] uh probably the most prestigious uh
[1:43:55] antique um appraisal and dealer in New
[1:43:59] Hampshire and with a presence down on uh
[1:44:02] in in Boston, Massachusetts in downtown
[1:44:04] Boston.
[1:44:04] >> Thank you. Appreciate it. Uh the next
[1:44:07] item on on the agenda is uh in in our
[1:44:10] old business and this is uh Stonem Road,
[1:44:13] Mr. Rosinger. Mr. Rosinger uh asked that
[1:44:17] we not disposition his request until he
[1:44:21] got back from u his business trip or
[1:44:25] travel. Um Mr. Rosinger uh previously
[1:44:28] came up to the uh uh to the microphone
[1:44:31] and asked us three questions. Question
[1:44:34] number one is the return of his
[1:44:36] property.
[1:44:38] Um
[1:44:39] and um Claude, did I get it? Did did you
[1:44:42] also say the uh the loom because I think
[1:44:45] you I think you said you said loom as
[1:44:47] well. Okay. Uh cuz it wasn't clear in
[1:44:50] the uh when I when I watched the video.
[1:44:52] Question number two was acknowledged
[1:44:55] that uh he has the right to reinstall
[1:44:58] the posts on uh where they were
[1:45:00] originally installed. And then question
[1:45:03] number three uh was uh I'm paraphrasing
[1:45:07] plaud so if I get it wrong get about the
[1:45:09] business of getting the rural roads
[1:45:10] committee work done.
[1:45:12] >> So I think I think we've dispositioned
[1:45:14] that third one
[1:45:16] >> specific
[1:45:18] go ahead clock coming up
[1:45:26] » to be specific about the posts. I think
[1:45:28] I mentioned that we were talking about
[1:45:30] the granite posts. Mhm.
[1:45:32] >> which were half of them were
[1:45:34] historically there.
[1:45:35] >> Uh had been approved.
[1:45:38] >> Then stories were told that were not
[1:45:39] true about there not having been
[1:45:40] approved, but we'll put that aside for
[1:45:42] now.
[1:45:43] >> They were they were long-standing.
[1:45:45] >> And then when I [snorts] added some
[1:45:47] posts this year,
[1:45:48] >> they were not only in align with the
[1:45:50] historical one posts, but they were set
[1:45:52] a foot further back.
[1:45:54] >> So that was the guideline.
[1:45:56] >> Okay.
[1:45:57] >> Uh the wood posts had a different
[1:45:58] purpose. uh with any luck it has served
[1:46:01] that purpose and it's to draw attention
[1:46:05] to the fact that the irregularity
[1:46:09] of the plowing and the grading of the
[1:46:12] road and not just along my roads but
[1:46:15] throughout the rural roads needs to be
[1:46:17] addressed.
[1:46:18] >> Y and I think that was in your third uh
[1:46:21] u you kind of keyed off of that on in
[1:46:23] your third
[1:46:23] >> that's correct. I'm just saying that
[1:46:24] we're not discussing the wood posts.
[1:46:26] >> Yeah. Yeah. Well,
[1:46:27] >> all right. But I want them back.
[1:46:28] >> Yeah. Okay. Good.
[1:46:30] >> Thank you.
[1:46:31] Claude, for that. Um um
[1:46:33] there's another item in your board
[1:46:35] packet. Um and this is uh for just FYI,
[1:46:38] there is a uh something that I put in
[1:46:40] there for everybody.
[1:46:42] Uh we're not we're not here to to be
[1:46:45] judges. If you feel you need to be
[1:46:46] recused from this conversation, board
[1:46:48] member, you can do that. Uh that's your
[1:46:51] choice. Um we received a uh we received
[1:46:54] an email from Mr. Rosinger's attorney,
[1:46:56] Mr. Chapman dated August 13th. In that
[1:46:59] letter, Mr. Chapman uh uh submitted
[1:47:03] location plan for the install of 18
[1:47:05] granite posts on the east side of
[1:47:06] Startard aerial review of the posts
[1:47:09] spaced 50 ft apart and 12t 6 in from the
[1:47:12] center line of the road. Three
[1:47:14] photographs showing granite posts by way
[1:47:16] of background. I'm paraphrasing Claude,
[1:47:19] but this is pretty close. Uh for
[1:47:21] decades, without objection from the
[1:47:22] town, Mr. Rosener maintained the area
[1:47:24] adjacent to his residence. uh within
[1:47:26] started roads right of way. Uh he has uh
[1:47:30] recared removed brush graded loom seated
[1:47:33] mode areas on both sides. In
[1:47:36] approximately 2021, Mr. Rosinger
[1:47:39] his his attorneys note to us spoke with
[1:47:41] Scott Pike then employed by the public
[1:47:43] works department about placing six
[1:47:45] granite post within the historically
[1:47:47] established area. The post would be
[1:47:49] within the right of way uh but outside
[1:47:51] of the traveled way so as not to
[1:47:53] interfere with people driving the road.
[1:47:55] Mr. Pike approved Mr. Rosinger's plan.
[1:47:58] Together, they believed the post would
[1:48:00] better define the long existing but
[1:48:02] compromised gravel road edge and give
[1:48:04] the road a narrower appearance. Uh the
[1:48:07] expected people uh they expected people
[1:48:09] would drive the road at a slower and
[1:48:10] safer speed, causing less damage to the
[1:48:13] road and saving the town maintenance
[1:48:15] cost. Mr. Pike inspected the posts after
[1:48:18] they were installed. Again, Mr. Chapman,
[1:48:21] Mr. Rossinger's attorney. Uh on the
[1:48:24] aerial view submitted, uh three of the
[1:48:26] grain of post were immediately south of
[1:48:27] Stonem Road while there were while three
[1:48:31] were immediately north of the road.
[1:48:33] Following the placement, the town uh
[1:48:35] continued to maintain Stoddard Road,
[1:48:37] plowed it during winter and never
[1:48:38] expressed any concern about the posts.
[1:48:41] This past May, Mr. Rosinger retained a
[1:48:43] professional landscape designer and
[1:48:45] contractor to extend the line of granite
[1:48:47] post by adding 12 posts of set 50 ft
[1:48:50] apart on the east side of Stoddard Road
[1:48:53] extending the property outlined by his
[1:48:55] sister-in-law
[1:48:56] Lee Rosinger. Lee Rosinger. Thank you.
[1:49:00] Wooden posts were also placed on the
[1:49:02] west side of Stoddard Road extending
[1:49:04] onto Ms. Rosinger's property. Those
[1:49:06] posts were also set 50 feet apart at a
[1:49:09] greater distance from the traveled way.
[1:49:11] Uh
[1:49:13] then were the townplaced snowplowed
[1:49:15] stakes. The work took about two and a
[1:49:18] half weeks to complete. In the latter
[1:49:20] part of May, Mr. Rosener received two
[1:49:22] letters from the acting town manager
[1:49:23] that demanded the removal of posts. The
[1:49:25] second letter cited New Hampshire laws.
[1:49:27] One authorized the town to remove all
[1:49:29] obstructions on on any highway while the
[1:49:32] other authorized the town to remove
[1:49:33] encumbrances on the highway. On June 1,
[1:49:36] 2026, the town removed all granite and
[1:49:39] wooden posts and yards of loom.
[1:49:43] Attorney uh Chapman goes on to uh say,
[1:49:46] "I believe one might fairly question
[1:49:48] whether any of the posts were
[1:49:49] obstructing the encumbered travel way of
[1:49:51] Stoddard Road." That said, there is a
[1:49:54] 1982 opinion by the New Hampshire
[1:49:56] Attorney General that applies to Mr.
[1:49:58] Rosinger situation. In relevant part it
[1:50:01] states where the state has acquired only
[1:50:04] an easement the owner of the underlying
[1:50:05] fee. Usually the abuter retains certain
[1:50:08] rights to the reasonable use of the land
[1:50:11] italicized so long as such does not
[1:50:13] interfere with the travel rights of the
[1:50:15] public unalicized. The landowner has a
[1:50:18] limited uh right to place wood stone or
[1:50:20] other material within the rightway.
[1:50:22] Windship versus Enfield 42 New Hampshire
[1:50:25] 9726-7
[1:50:28] 1860 Chamberlain versus Enfield 43 New
[1:50:32] Hampshire 3561 1861 It's a question of
[1:50:35] fact whether the whether under the
[1:50:37] circumstances the material so placed
[1:50:39] unnecessarily obstructs free passage of
[1:50:41] the public over the over the right of
[1:50:43] way graze versus shadic 35 New Hampshire
[1:50:46] 2571 1857 office the italicized office
[1:50:50] the attorney general opinion unalicity
[1:50:52] size number 821 1581 1982
[1:50:57] WL 188209 at three emphasis added
[1:51:01] permitting Mr. Rosinger to praise 18
[1:51:03] grand a post on the east side of Started
[1:51:04] Road would enable him to make reasonable
[1:51:06] use of his land within the rightway yet
[1:51:08] in no way interfere with the travel
[1:51:10] traveling rights of the public. All
[1:51:12] right. So, let's do this uh uh uh let's
[1:51:15] do this in a threepart
[1:51:19] uh process. Um I'd like a motion u um to
[1:51:25] return Mr. Roseners's posts wood as well
[1:51:28] as granite. And I would uh I would just
[1:51:31] encourage that and I'll I guess I'll
[1:51:33] make the motion and with the
[1:51:35] understanding that if uh if they are to
[1:51:37] be returned, he will be at his home and
[1:51:40] he will allow us to go onto his property
[1:51:41] to return the posts. So I'll make that
[1:51:43] as a motion. Do I have a
[1:51:45] >> I would also like that um he signs some
[1:51:47] kind of document that we make that he's
[1:51:50] in receipt of the posts.
[1:51:52] >> I would like that added too.
[1:51:54] >> Yes. Just to make sure that we deliver
[1:51:57] 18. He says there's 18. and he signs
[1:51:59] that he's got 18 because what if all of
[1:52:01] a sudden we make a mistake and we
[1:52:03] deliver 17 but he thought he got 18 and
[1:52:05] now there's a post that's missing an
[1:52:06] action.
[1:52:07] >> I think that makes sense. I agree.
[1:52:09] >> Okay, I'll have a motion. We'll add to
[1:52:10] that.
[1:52:11] >> Could you add undamaged
[1:52:14] if they're broken?
[1:52:17] >> Yeah. If they become broken, who who who
[1:52:21] compensates for the broken?
[1:52:27] » Word members,
[1:52:29] >> if if if we took 18 and we're choosing
[1:52:32] to give 18 back, the 18 we give back
[1:52:34] should be in the same condition as the
[1:52:35] 18 we took.
[1:52:38] >> I I would prefer to say unbroken.
[1:52:42] >> Yeah,
[1:52:42] >> unbroken.
[1:52:43] >> Okay.
[1:52:44] >> All right. So, I can re write or re
[1:52:46] resch this one. [clears throat] So there
[1:52:47] I'll I'll put a motion together here
[1:52:49] that says we will return uh all the
[1:52:52] posts that we removed. 18 granite posts.
[1:52:56] Is it 18? No, it's not 18 granite. It's
[1:52:58] total posts.
[1:53:01] We will return all the posts we took.
[1:53:03] How's that? Okay. And we will return
[1:53:05] them in an unbroken state. We will
[1:53:08] return those posts provided you're home
[1:53:09] and that you sign something that says
[1:53:11] you receive them. The question then
[1:53:13] becomes the loom. And I don't know how we denominate how much loom we send
[1:53:17] back, but what do you want to do about
[1:53:18] that? Claude,
[1:53:19] >> why don't we just deal with the post
[1:53:20] first?
[1:53:21] >> Let's deal with the post first. I have a
[1:53:22] motion
[1:53:22] >> and I'll second that.
[1:53:23] >> You have a second. Okay. Conversation.
[1:53:27] >> All those in support of returning those
[1:53:29] posts in unbroken state provided Mr.
[1:53:31] Rosinger is home and signs something
[1:53:33] that says he received them.
[1:53:35] >> Say I.
[1:53:36] >> I.
[1:53:36] Okay.
[1:53:37] >> Now, about the loom. Um, I don't know
[1:53:39] how we denominate that.
[1:53:41] >> So, what So, why don't you ask Mr. to
[1:53:43] Roser to provide a receipt for the loan
[1:53:45] that was that he purchased and that way
[1:53:49] cuz we take all of it.
[1:53:52] >> Ask him
[1:53:54] >> um who spread the loom.
[1:53:56] >> I I can
[1:53:58] >> Linda
[1:53:58] >> I thought when you were here you said
[1:54:00] you didn't want the loan.
[1:54:01] >> I think that's what you said.
[1:54:02] >> You were saying oh no just forget about
[1:54:05] the LOM.
[1:54:07] >> We'll have to go back and look at that.
[1:54:08] I'm I'm sure that was the case but
[1:54:12] >> come on up Claude. I need you. I need
[1:54:13] you at the microphone. [snorts]
[1:54:20] » It was high-grade lom. It had excellent
[1:54:23] seed for that purpose. Uh about 100
[1:54:26] pounds of seed as I recall. And the lom
[1:54:29] was
[1:54:31] Now, I'm not going to do it for memory.
[1:54:33] I know that it was about $2,000 of loan.
[1:54:35] >> Uh 2,000
[1:54:36] >> $2,000 of loan.
[1:54:37] >> $2,000.
[1:54:38] >> So you have a receipt for that?
[1:54:40] >> You can. Yeah, of course. Mhm.
[1:54:43] >> for the CEO that too.
[1:54:46] >> So board members, you know, I don't know
[1:54:48] if we took all the loan, but board
[1:54:50] members, uh, we have a an ask by Mr.
[1:54:52] Rosinger to u return the equivalent of
[1:54:56] $2,000 worth of loan and see.
[1:54:58] >> Well, let let me be I'm telling you I'd
[1:55:00] like to confirm the number. It's not
[1:55:02] more than that, but uh happy to provide
[1:55:05] the receipts.
[1:55:06] >> Okay. So, how do we want to do this,
[1:55:08] Linda? Well, I guess my feeling is I
[1:55:10] understand the post and everything, but
[1:55:12] he had an opportunity to remove it prior
[1:55:15] to us coming. He knew we were going to
[1:55:16] come do it. He had two letters he
[1:55:19] received.
[1:55:20] >> I understand the value of the granite
[1:55:22] post and putting those back, but I'm
[1:55:24] having a hard time with the lom.
[1:55:26] >> Well, if I may, I'll comment that. Uh,
[1:55:30] number one, the letters, we dispute the
[1:55:33] legality of those letters
[1:55:35] >> and we and you know that we disputed it.
[1:55:37] So that's an open question today.
[1:55:40] >> The second thing is the second letter
[1:55:43] just for amusement
[1:55:46] was received certified mail on the
[1:55:48] Friday of Memorial Day weekend with the
[1:55:51] instruction that if I didn't act over
[1:55:53] the weekend,
[1:55:54] >> everything would be ripped out on the
[1:55:55] Monday, which it was.
[1:55:57] >> I don't think a letter like that stands
[1:56:00] scrutiny. Mhm.
[1:56:03] >> So, yes. And then when it came to having
[1:56:07] it all ripped out, which had been Mr.
[1:56:09] Randall's purpose, he wanted to do that,
[1:56:11] and that was obviously long planned.
[1:56:14] >> I said, "Well, at least leave the lom or
[1:56:16] use it. Use it for the work you're
[1:56:18] doing."
[1:56:20] >> No, no, we want our own.
[1:56:22] >> Fine. So, high high-grade lom far better
[1:56:26] than what was put down. was simply put
[1:56:29] in a dump truck and taken away.
[1:56:32] >> Okay. All right. So, um, what do you
[1:56:35] want to do, Bo? You want to put a motion
[1:56:36] up? I'll entertain it.
[1:56:42] » So, there is a picture of the side of
[1:56:45] the road where the grass and the lom is
[1:56:47] all there. It's all It's all growing in.
[1:56:51] And I think if you go up there now,
[1:56:54] that's it's not there anymore.
[1:56:57] So, I think he's just asking for equal
[1:57:00] compensation for I mean, that's storm
[1:57:03] water management by the looks of it.
[1:57:04] That looks like it's going to stop the
[1:57:06] water from uh carrying the the fines
[1:57:09] away on the side of the road. It's when
[1:57:11] uh when water comes, it's going to slow
[1:57:13] it down before it gets to the road. I
[1:57:14] mean, there's a lot there's a lot of
[1:57:16] benefactor to what was accomplished
[1:57:18] there.
[1:57:22] » Do I have a motion from anybody?
[1:57:29] I think somebody had a rem
[1:57:32] Dave a little louder in the mic, please.
[1:57:35] >> How about if we um
[1:57:38] ask Mr. Rosen to supply some
[1:57:42] uh billing as far as the amount of soil
[1:57:45] he was he had put down in some estimate
[1:57:49] from Steve or whoever either stay Steve
[1:57:53] uh Randall or Steve Peshy as far as how
[1:57:56] much was removed.
[1:57:59] >> I don't think there's an appetite here
[1:58:01] unless I'm wrong uh to uh uh to to
[1:58:05] discuss or vote on this motion. I think
[1:58:08] what you're suggesting is let's get a
[1:58:09] little more information from from you,
[1:58:11] Claude,
[1:58:12] >> about uh maybe receipts or whatever you
[1:58:14] have and then we can take it up at at
[1:58:16] another time.
[1:58:17] >> And I think what Dave is saying too is
[1:58:19] that um
[1:58:21] we don't know how much loom they took.
[1:58:25] We don't know if they took the whole
[1:58:26] $2,000 worth of loom. If they took more,
[1:58:30] if they took less,
[1:58:32] we don't know. Um I
[1:58:33] >> just want some parameters. Yeah,
[1:58:39] » we have the fixtures. They ripped up the
[1:58:41] roadside. It took far more
[1:58:43] >> including the roadside that was already
[1:58:45] there
[1:58:46] >> or you know I I think this comes down to
[1:58:48] more data from tell us show us some
[1:58:51] >> So I'm simply providing the receipts.
[1:58:53] >> Yeah,
[1:58:54] >> that's gone.
[1:58:55] >> Yeah. And I think that if I may suggest,
[1:58:59] I think that I've been through enough on
[1:59:02] this and you all know what happened.
[1:59:05] >> It was wrong.
[1:59:08] And what I'm asking for is moderate,
[1:59:13] >> very moderate. I've tried to be
[1:59:15] reasonable throughout this thing.
[1:59:19] >> So I would appreciate consideration of
[1:59:21] it.
[1:59:21] >> Okay.
[1:59:21] >> Thank you.
[1:59:22] It was another I appreciate
[1:59:24] that. So you you will get us some more
[1:59:27] information. Another matter which is uh
[1:59:29] there was a fine the bill in materials
[1:59:32] of $2550.
[1:59:37] Board members, what do you want to do
[1:59:38] about that?
[1:59:41] >> Was the fine paid? No,
[1:59:51] » it let me just say is this is this in
[1:59:54] court?
[1:59:55] >> Yeah,
[1:59:56] >> that's he was saying that he was had
[1:59:58] filed against the uh way he was noticed.
[2:00:03] Is that in court
[2:00:05] now? Did you get an answer on that? I
[2:00:07] thought you said that you had um
[2:00:11] >> it was a legal
[2:00:12] >> challenge and it was a legal matter the
[2:00:14] way you were uh letters you received. Is
[2:00:18] that in court now?
[2:00:19] >> At this point there's nothing before
[2:00:21] court.
[2:00:21] >> Oh, you have Okay. You haven't filed
[2:00:23] anything.
[2:00:24] >> All I can say unless the town has done
[2:00:25] something.
[2:00:26] >> No, no. I thought you were saying you
[2:00:28] had something. No, frankly. I
[2:00:29] >> Thank you. I because I couldn't remember
[2:00:31] anything. So,
[2:00:31] >> I I said we disputed it.
[2:00:33] >> You disputed? Yeah.
[2:00:34] >> Okay. What what what would be your
[2:00:36] opinion on the fine
[2:00:38] >> on?
[2:00:39] >> Yes.
[2:00:40] >> On what?
[2:00:40] >> The fine that Paul just mentioned. What
[2:00:43] would you
[2:00:43] >> I didn't see that.
[2:00:46] >> What fine?
[2:00:47] >> Where is that?
[2:00:48] >> Uh you received a fine from uh for the
[2:00:50] uh removal of posts on
[2:00:52] >> Absolutely not.
[2:00:53] >> Okay.
[2:00:54] >> I did.
[2:00:55] >> Not getting paid.
[2:00:56] >> Yeah. Okay.
[2:00:57] >> That's outrageous.
[2:00:58] >> Okay.
[2:00:59] >> They never had to be removed.
[2:01:01] >> Okay. you and that is also one of the
[2:01:04] things we have to decide.
[2:01:07] >> I haven't seen any. You've got something
[2:01:10] I don't have.
[2:01:11] >> Has our town council weighed in on any
[2:01:13] of this?
[2:01:16] I mean, have they have they said that
[2:01:19] the fine was uh
[2:01:21] >> legitimate?
[2:01:22] Not legitimate? I mean, I
[2:01:24] believe he needs to get his property
[2:01:26] back. I need I believe he needs to get
[2:01:28] his loom back. Um, I don't know who
[2:01:31] filed the fine and I assume it was our
[2:01:34] prior town our interim I haven't seen
[2:01:37] it.
[2:01:38] >> I I haven't even lodged a request for
[2:01:41] the cost of reinstallation.
[2:01:44] I don't propose to do that.
[2:01:46] >> Okay.
[2:01:47] >> So, I think a little bit of give and
[2:01:49] take would make sense.
[2:01:51] uh
[2:01:53] the ripping out of the post
[2:01:57] with essentially no notice
[2:02:01] and then to ask that they be held for
[2:02:04] ransom, which is what it was.
[2:02:06] >> Yeah.
[2:02:07] >> Is not a reasonable and decent thing to
[2:02:09] do. [clears throat]
[2:02:10] >> Should never have happened.
[2:02:12] >> I'm not going to u if you want me. Go
[2:02:15] ahead, Claude. Sorry.
[2:02:16] >> No, I I don't I tried to make this
[2:02:18] short. No, I'm not going to uh I don't
[2:02:21] think I'm going to press the question at
[2:02:23] this time because now there's a question
[2:02:24] of legality
[2:02:27] um about u some matters here.
[2:02:30] >> What's that?
[2:02:32] >> I was just responding to what Mr.
[2:02:33] Rosener said. Legality is an issue. He's
[2:02:36] got a legality of what we're doing is an
[2:02:38] issue. Okay. But there is a third
[2:02:41] question and uh we'll put it on the on
[2:02:43] the table and that is
[2:02:46] acknowledging that Mr. Rosinger has the
[2:02:48] right
[2:02:51] to reinstall the posts in that property
[2:02:53] location. Is that what you're
[2:02:54] >> I'm sorry.
[2:02:55] >> Yeah, I'm sorry, Claude. You You're When
[2:02:57] you came to the microphone last time,
[2:02:59] you said you want us to acknowledge that
[2:03:02] you have the right to reinstall those
[2:03:04] post
[2:03:04] >> and we were speaking about the granite
[2:03:05] post on the east side of the road.
[2:03:07] >> That's right.
[2:03:08] >> Okay. Board members,
[2:03:11] >> I I got to go back. Did we get an
[2:03:13] opinion from town attorney whether he
[2:03:16] has a right and we've got something from
[2:03:18] his lawyer? It's going back to uh 1860.
[2:03:24] Um and so if we got a legal point here,
[2:03:28] we should know the answer.
[2:03:30] >> And I don't have any information on
[2:03:33] that.
[2:03:34] >> I don't have a document from anybody in
[2:03:37] the town giving him permission to put
[2:03:39] them there, you know. Um, and I think
[2:03:43] the question is, does he have a right to
[2:03:45] put them there? And and we don't have an
[2:03:47] opinion on that, and I'm not a lawyer.
[2:03:50] >> Well, it seems to me, if I may make the
[2:03:53] suggestion, this can be resolved easily
[2:03:55] or the hard way. I propose easily for
[2:03:59] both parties.
[2:04:01] Now, the right,
[2:04:04] we already have established that six of
[2:04:06] the posts were approved by Scott Pike.
[2:04:09] >> I have no document. And
[2:04:13] no, that won't do because they stood
[2:04:16] there for nearly a decade. Nobody said a
[2:04:19] word. And by the way, when I spoke to
[2:04:22] Scott Pike, when Mr. Muio pretended that
[2:04:25] he had spoken to Pike and Pike disavowed
[2:04:28] having been with me when the posts were
[2:04:30] placed. That wasn't true. Mr. Pike told
[2:04:34] me clearly, "No, I was there with you."
[2:04:37] >> I think clearly we need at least
[2:04:39] opinion. think that to take it if we
[2:04:42] start to go back to lawyers, we spend
[2:04:44] money on your side, we're going to end
[2:04:46] up spending money on my side and what do
[2:04:49] we really accomplish? Isn't there an
[2:04:51] issue here of common sense and common
[2:04:53] decency that should enter into this
[2:04:55] discussion? Those posts were there and
[2:04:58] then the ones we added were added in the
[2:05:00] same line but further from the center
[2:05:03] line of the road than the original six.
[2:05:06] I did that as a specific instruction to
[2:05:09] prevent exactly what arose.
[2:05:13] >> Why was all this done? You know why it
[2:05:15] was done. I know why it was done. It was
[2:05:18] done by an angry public works director
[2:05:20] who wanted to show his authority over
[2:05:22] us.
[2:05:24] >> Okay,
[2:05:24] >> let's be honest about that.
[2:05:26] >> All right. So, Mr. Mr. Rosinger, I I
[2:05:28] respect your comment about starting with
[2:05:30] lawyers, but what I have in my
[2:05:31] possession is comments from your lawyer.
[2:05:36] >> But but we can easily,
[2:05:38] >> right?
[2:05:38] >> I would prefer to desist.
[2:05:42] If you desist, I desist.
[2:05:45] >> It's what I suggested in August when I
[2:05:47] met. Mhm.
[2:05:49] >> The thing that most vexed me was that
[2:05:52] repeated offers to meet
[2:05:55] just to resolve the matter
[2:05:58] >> were rejected out of hand.
[2:06:01] >> Why would that have been?
[2:06:02] >> Because when lawyers get involved, we
[2:06:04] don't.
[2:06:05] >> No, that's not a good answer because we
[2:06:07] can overrule our lawyers at any moment.
[2:06:09] We can step in and say, "Let's fix it."
[2:06:11] >> Yeah. Linda,
[2:06:13] >> and I think we have a bigger question
[2:06:15] and not just your spot, but on any
[2:06:18] rightway, dirt road. What is the town's
[2:06:23] rightway? And is it right for the town
[2:06:26] to let people put things in that
[2:06:28] rightway? And that's you over here, over
[2:06:32] there, anywhere else. And that's what
[2:06:34] this is is um refer
[2:06:37] >> referring to I I would like to have an
[2:06:41] town attorney's opinion on that. Not to
[2:06:44] go after you, but to get a true
[2:06:46] understanding cuz do you owe to the
[2:06:50] middle section of the road or not?
[2:06:52] >> And I I want that. That's what I'm
[2:06:54] looking for. I'm not
[2:06:55] >> fine. If you're going if you're looking
[2:06:57] for it looking forward, I can't gain
[2:07:00] that.
[2:07:01] >> But I can tell you this. If you're going
[2:07:03] to go after all the things in town that
[2:07:08] are located at the same centerline
[2:07:10] distances and in the right of way as you
[2:07:12] claimed mine were,
[2:07:14] >> you've got hundreds of items to go
[2:07:17] after. You can start on Sul Road, by the
[2:07:18] way. There are stone walls and all kinds
[2:07:20] of things.
[2:07:20] >> Yeah. I I still want to get that
[2:07:23] understanding from the attorney. That's
[2:07:25] what I'm asking for. I'm not asking to
[2:07:28] >> My issue shouldn't be paused for that.
[2:07:30] I'd like to get these back in before the
[2:07:32] frost comes.
[2:07:34] >> I'm not.
[2:07:34] >> By the way, one one thing just the South
[2:07:36] Wolf Bro Cemetery
[2:07:39] has granite posts of the same type.
[2:07:41] They're nearer the center line
[2:07:43] >> and that's not a class five road. It's a
[2:07:45] class four, I think.
[2:07:48] >> I still
[2:07:50] I understand. I'm simply telling you
[2:07:51] that the the
[2:07:55] I'm trying to
[2:07:58] you have some experience with lawyers. I
[2:08:00] have some experience with lawyers.
[2:08:01] >> They have their use utility.
[2:08:04] >> You're married to one.
[2:08:05] >> I may think more utility than you do.
[2:08:08] >> So, it's just there's a time if we want
[2:08:11] to resolve things, there's a time to
[2:08:13] resolve it. Shake hands and be done
[2:08:16] with.
[2:08:17] >> That's that time.
[2:08:20] now what you do for the future and so
[2:08:22] forth. I'm simply pointing out that if
[2:08:24] you apply those rules, good luck to you
[2:08:27] because almost every road in town has
[2:08:29] similar things.
[2:08:30] >> I still would like an understanding of
[2:08:32] what that and the law and what it says.
[2:08:34] >> However, what it does not say I can give
[2:08:37] you a it does not say that the town can
[2:08:39] clear the right of way. The right of way
[2:08:42] is a is a three rods wide and it allows
[2:08:45] the town to pass a roadway through that.
[2:08:47] It does not allow the town to build a
[2:08:50] three rod wide road.
[2:08:52] >> So, this isn't meant to be a trick
[2:08:54] question.
[2:08:54] >> Yeah.
[2:08:54] >> But here it comes, right? It's not meant
[2:08:56] to be a trick question.
[2:08:58] >> You've told me us
[2:09:00] >> Yeah.
[2:09:00] >> You know roads.
[2:09:01] >> I do.
[2:09:02] >> And you told us right now you know how
[2:09:04] roads get laid out.
[2:09:05] >> Yeah.
[2:09:06] >> And you just told us that you went to a
[2:09:08] manager of the public works department
[2:09:10] and got permission.
[2:09:12] >> That I went to the manager of
[2:09:14] >> Yeah. went to Scott Pike, a manager in
[2:09:15] the public works department, to get
[2:09:16] permission to lay out your road.
[2:09:19] >> Selectman lay out roads.
[2:09:22] >> Well, would as a as a citizen,
[2:09:27] >> am I
[2:09:29] uh supposed to know the entire procedure
[2:09:32] of how the town approves things? If you go to a manager in the town,
[2:09:37] >> that manager should know what that
[2:09:39] procedure is. Yeah.
[2:09:40] >> So, he either knows that he is
[2:09:42] authorized to do that or he knows he's
[2:09:45] not. And he would say so, wouldn't he?
[2:09:47] >> But if he says he is,
[2:09:50] >> you have a reasonable right to take that
[2:09:52] as true. And Mr. Pike, by the way, I
[2:09:55] think is an honorable man.
[2:09:57] >> I think he is too.
[2:09:58] >> Always found him to be that. So, if he
[2:10:00] did that and if he said he did that,
[2:10:02] >> I don't know how you can claim that it
[2:10:04] wasn't approved or authorized. and then
[2:10:07] that it stood there for nearly a decade
[2:10:09] without anybody saying a word.
[2:10:12] >> Okay, board members, what do you want to
[2:10:14] do?
[2:10:14] >> I have a question,
[2:10:15] >> John.
[2:10:16] >> So, Linda, should shouldn't the town
[2:10:19] have had an understanding first before
[2:10:21] they singled out one citizen?
[2:10:24] >> I I I I'm
[2:10:27] No, you're trying to get into debate
[2:10:28] with me. What I'm saying is I would like
[2:10:31] an understanding of that and when I get
[2:10:35] attorney's opinion on exactly what you
[2:10:38] do you own from the middle of the road
[2:10:41] what is it do you want does the person
[2:10:43] uh own the underlying land that's one
[2:10:46] way how is the road accepted what are
[2:10:48] the different ways so I can get get do
[2:10:51] some thinking about this
[2:10:54] that's what I'm looking for
[2:10:57] >> what I'm referring to is there is a
[2:11:00] stone wall down on S road at 352 that's
[2:11:03] built 2 ft from the edge of the road.
[2:11:06] There's post down that railroad a that
[2:11:08] are put in by the town that are like 10
[2:11:11] in from the road. I
[2:11:12] >> I'm looking at
[2:11:13] >> this lom at Brewster Academy that was
[2:11:15] just put down next to Esbrook Road.
[2:11:18] >> I'm looking at trying to get a handle on
[2:11:21] exactly what is the wall. That's what
[2:11:24] I'm trying to do. And you're pointing
[2:11:26] these different things out. Maybe we do.
[2:11:29] I don't know how the law reads about who
[2:11:33] owns to where.
[2:11:35] >> Some things [snorts] I've read said you
[2:11:36] own to the middle of the road and
[2:11:39] >> what rights do you have? I I think
[2:11:41] there's enough question here that we
[2:11:43] should get a clear understanding.
[2:11:45] >> So
[2:11:45] >> that's what I'm looking for.
[2:11:46] >> So if if you get a clear understanding,
[2:11:49] will you go to all those places
[2:11:51] throughout the town, pick them all up?
[2:11:54] I want to understand and then I'll think
[2:11:56] about the different areas and try to
[2:11:58] make a decision
[2:12:00] >> and we've got one here.
[2:12:01] >> Okay.
[2:12:02] >> All right.
[2:12:02] >> Just
[2:12:03] >> and I live on a dirt road and there are
[2:12:04] things on our dirt road and there are
[2:12:06] other dirt roads that have it.
[2:12:07] >> I know I went down your dirt road today.
[2:12:09] >> Okay. So there you need to take a look
[2:12:12] at what's going on.
[2:12:15] >> So
[2:12:15] >> and I want to understand the law.
[2:12:17] >> So here here's at least my opinion.
[2:12:19] Here's where I come out on it. And this
[2:12:20] is a very lawyerly document.
[2:12:23] my opinion written by your lawyer.
[2:12:27] That's a fact. States case law. That's a
[2:12:30] fact.
[2:12:33] You're disputing
[2:12:35] uh whether we should or should not uh
[2:12:37] allow you to put the post back. I
[2:12:40] believe that's a fact. We'll get advice
[2:12:42] of our lawyer and we'll get back to you.
[2:12:46] That's about as best as I would
[2:12:48] recommend us to do. I would like us to
[2:12:50] stop bouncing between lawyers.
[2:12:52] >> Yeah, I would too
[2:12:53] >> because there's no need.
[2:12:54] >> It gets expensive.
[2:12:57] >> And I don't understand.
[2:12:58] >> And it takes a lot of time.
[2:13:00] >> It does. It does all of that. And you
[2:13:02] may not even get an opinion that's
[2:13:03] valid, by the way.
[2:13:04] >> Well, then then you know, but then but
[2:13:06] once that happens though, respectfully,
[2:13:08] Claus, then we end up in court again,
[2:13:09] then you can go all the way up the uh
[2:13:11] the chain of command on the court
[2:13:13] system, and if you don't like that
[2:13:14] answer, I can't offer you anything else.
[2:13:16] Don't we have an easy, simple, common
[2:13:18] sense solution in front of us right now?
[2:13:21] >> I I offered you my opinion
[2:13:23] >> that is you've written a letter through
[2:13:25] your lawyer saying
[2:13:26] >> but I've already told you that that can
[2:13:28] be withdrawn by my say so.
[2:13:30] >> Yeah, I've offered my opinion.
[2:13:33] >> Board members, what do you want to do?
[2:13:34] >> So, how does how does an individual that
[2:13:38] has a dispute
[2:13:40] not have to go to an attorney to get an
[2:13:43] opinion? That's usually what the status
[2:13:46] quo is, isn't it, Paul?
[2:13:49] [snorts]
[2:13:49] >> I'm not sure I even understand your
[2:13:50] question, John.
[2:13:52] >> If somebody has a dispute, they go and
[2:13:55] get a legal opinion so that they can
[2:13:57] prove their case. Isn't that normally
[2:13:59] what happens?
[2:14:00] >> Right. And he's done that.
[2:14:02] >> So, why didn't we have to get one on our
[2:14:05] >> Why didn't Why didn't we already get it?
[2:14:07] >> I was just waiting to have this meeting.
[2:14:10] >> Well, Paul, if I may.
[2:14:12] >> Yes, sir. Consider that what was done without court order, which it
[2:14:18] would have required,
[2:14:21] >> the ripping out of my property, and it
[2:14:23] was done without due process.
[2:14:26] >> So, there's a whole case there.
[2:14:27] >> Yeah.
[2:14:28] >> But I don't want to make that case. I
[2:14:30] can do it, but I I don't want to.
[2:14:31] >> No, I I understand.
[2:14:32] >> So, why don't we
[2:14:34] >> I'm making you an offer.
[2:14:36] >> Yeah.
[2:14:36] >> The offer is to set aside the
[2:14:39] reinstallation cost. I'll take that on
[2:14:41] myself.
[2:14:43] I'm not going to make a claim of
[2:14:44] damages.
[2:14:45] >> Yeah.
[2:14:45] >> I'm not going to make a further claim
[2:14:47] against the town for misbehavior and
[2:14:49] whatever.
[2:14:50] >> Not going to do all that.
[2:14:52] >> I live in this town.
[2:14:53] >> Yeah.
[2:14:53] >> I care about this town.
[2:14:56] >> So, I'm offering you a solution. I don't
[2:15:00] understand why we would need to now that
[2:15:02] you, Mrs. Murray, would like to have an
[2:15:04] opinion going forward and so forth.
[2:15:07] That's fine. That's perfectly sensible.
[2:15:10] and then you can take stock of whatever
[2:15:12] the situation is all over town and make
[2:15:14] of it what you want.
[2:15:18] But is this too much to ask after what
[2:15:20] I've been through?
[2:15:22] >> I don't think so.
[2:15:22] >> Okay.
[2:15:23] >> Thank you.
[2:15:23] for that. Claude board
[2:15:25] members, what do you want to do?
[2:15:28] >> I think we need more information.
[2:15:32] >> I don't advice to council.
[2:15:33] >> Does Nathan have this letter? Does
[2:15:35] anybody know?
[2:15:36] >> I believe he does.
[2:15:39] I'll check with uh we can check with
[2:15:40] Barry.
[2:15:42] >> Barry and I would like a copy.
[2:15:44] >> It would have come in and gone to Barry
[2:15:46] because it was dated 13 August. Oh,
[2:15:48] >> okay.
[2:15:48] Okay.
[2:15:50] >> Like a copy of the materials list he has
[2:15:53] there too? Yep.
[2:15:53] >> That we didn't get?
[2:15:54] >> Yep.
[2:15:55] >> Oh, that this list. Yes, we need that,
[2:15:57] too.
[2:15:58] >> You want a copy of the uh of the fine
[2:16:00] that uh was there? Sure. No problem.
[2:16:03] >> So, board members, uh uh do you want to
[2:16:05] seek advice of counsel? Can we ask Jim
[2:16:07] what he thinks?
[2:16:09] >> Sure.
[2:16:11] >> I think it's quite reasonable to get the
[2:16:14] um town attorney's opinion.
[2:16:19] >> Okay. Do I need a motion for this or we
[2:16:21] just going to do it?
[2:16:23] >> I think that's where I I don't think we
[2:16:25] need a motion. I think we have a
[2:16:26] consensus of the board. Is there anybody
[2:16:28] who does not want to go
[2:16:30] >> get town council's opinion on this?
[2:16:33] >> Any dissension?
[2:16:34] >> Fine. We'll go for advice of council.
[2:16:37] Thank you. Okay,
[2:16:40] >> Claude, thank you for your forbearance.
[2:16:41] U we are going to take the initiative to
[2:16:44] get the post back to you. Um
[2:16:48] and you're going to get us a uh some
[2:16:49] information about the loom and the
[2:16:51] seating. So you received a bill from
[2:16:54] somebody, right? So we'll get that we'll
[2:16:56] get that into the record. Okay.
[2:17:00] to to be clear. Uh I will deliver to you
[2:17:03] receipts.
[2:17:04] >> I'm sorry. Yes, you'll deliver receipts.
[2:17:06] Yes.
[2:17:07] >> And is that all you expect from me?
[2:17:09] >> I think so. I think Yeah. Receipts.
[2:17:11] >> All right. I shall do that.
[2:17:13] >> And and you're and I'm not trying to put
[2:17:15] words in your mouth, but I think I heard
[2:17:16] you say the reinstallation of the loom
[2:17:19] and all of that. We're not going to be
[2:17:22] talking about that. Or are we?
[2:17:22] >> We're not talking about that.
[2:17:23] >> We're not going to talk about that. No.
[2:17:24] >> So, you just want you just we just want
[2:17:26] from you. Unless you guys tell me I'm
[2:17:28] wrong. You just we just want from you
[2:17:29] what you bought or what you were sold by
[2:17:32] somebody and you'll have a receipt.
[2:17:34] >> Correct.
[2:17:34] >> Okay.
[2:17:35] >> And and I think he wants his fine
[2:17:37] expuned.
[2:17:40] » Uh that's when we started talking about
[2:17:42] legalities.
[2:17:44] So we'll get the advice of council on
[2:17:45] that.
[2:17:47] >> On what?
[2:17:48] >> The fine.
[2:17:50] >> No, that's
[2:17:51] >> You said it was a non-starter, right?
[2:17:53] >> It's a non-starter.
[2:17:53] >> So you said it was a non-starter.
[2:17:54] >> It's a non-starter. It's an invention
[2:17:56] and you know why it was done. It's It's
[2:17:58] a pure invention. It was vindictive. It
[2:18:00] was vengeance.
[2:18:02] >> And
[2:18:03] >> I'm not going to have it on.
[2:18:04] >> I got it. I appreciate that.
[2:18:07] >> Thank you.
[2:18:07] sir.
[2:18:08] >> So So do we have I have a I have a
[2:18:11] question about the fine. Do do we have a
[2:18:13] policy of how a fine is imposed or how
[2:18:18] what the criteria and how we go about
[2:18:20] finding somebody?
[2:18:22] >> I believe we do.
[2:18:24] >> Okay.
[2:18:28] Okay. Next item on the agenda is
[2:18:31] the Sool Road speed limit revision
[2:18:34] request.
[2:18:36] Uh so the uh residents of Sul Road uh
[2:18:39] requested a permanent reduction in the
[2:18:42] speed limit.
[2:18:43] Uh the u uh the police department has
[2:18:46] been asked to um uh provide us with uh
[2:18:49] data about that. Uh captain, if you
[2:18:53] wouldn't mind coming up and giving us a
[2:18:54] short precise on this. The headline is
[2:18:59] that u there is a recommendation from
[2:19:01] the police department, but it's going to
[2:19:03] require one public hearing because it's
[2:19:05] a change in ordinance. Okay, captain.
[2:19:08] >> Thank you. So, um we did the soul road
[2:19:11] traffic study which uh took in effect of
[2:19:15] the radar traffic that we do have and
[2:19:18] the characteristics of the roadway. Um,
[2:19:21] from that we did it from May 17th to the
[2:19:24] September 22nd and we had 134,000
[2:19:28] vehicles. 2534
[2:19:31] >> Captain A little bit louder.
[2:19:33] >> Oh, sorry about that.
[2:19:36] >> 134 253 was the amount of vehicles that
[2:19:40] came by the uh radar to show the data
[2:19:43] and the average speed that was through
[2:19:46] there was 24.5 miles an hour. uh the 50
[2:19:50] percentile was 25.4 4 while the 85
[2:19:53] percentile was 30.5 miles an hour. You
[2:19:57] see all that data in there and basically
[2:20:00] from that finding it shows that we
[2:20:03] really don't have a speed problem on um
[2:20:06] SU road but we took the characteristics
[2:20:09] from the roadway too which has a lot of
[2:20:11] curves as points. It's a very
[2:20:13] residential area, a lot of hills and
[2:20:15] slopes. And through the conclusion of
[2:20:18] that, the study at those speeds when
[2:20:21] that data is considered together with
[2:20:23] the heavy residential nature of the
[2:20:25] roadway, the residential ass access
[2:20:28] points, the curves,
[2:20:31] um the intermittent speed uh
[2:20:34] straightaways where the vehicles then um
[2:20:37] increase speeds before they hit the
[2:20:39] curves. Uh the department finds that the
[2:20:41] 25 mph speed is appropriate posted speed
[2:20:44] for the school road and recommends
[2:20:46] reducing the ex existing speed limit
[2:20:49] from 30 to 25.
[2:20:51] >> So the headline here is is a
[2:20:52] recommendation to reduce the speed from
[2:20:54] 30 to 25 albeit that the current
[2:20:58] measured speed is 24.5
[2:21:00] on average.
[2:21:02] >> Yeah.
[2:21:02] >> But it's a volume issue. 134,000
[2:21:04] vehicles
[2:21:06] >> going up and down the road
[2:21:07] >> months. Yes.
[2:21:08] >> Okay. This is a good amount. So folks,
[2:21:10] this board won't vote on this tonight.
[2:21:13] >> We will uh we will have one public
[2:21:14] hearing because it's an ordinance
[2:21:15] change. Following that, uh we will
[2:21:18] either vote to adopt or not. Okay. So,
[2:21:21] I've been thinking about this quite a
[2:21:23] bit
[2:21:25] um for the last few weeks and I actually
[2:21:29] drove the road quite a bit and I walked
[2:21:31] the road a couple of times and
[2:21:36] I'm wondering if we put 25 mph signs at
[2:21:40] pinch points at points where the road is
[2:21:44] going into a sharp bend
[2:21:47] where it's hilly and you have poor
[2:21:49] visibility or things like that. Would
[2:21:52] that
[2:21:54] help more than just having a sign at one
[2:21:57] end and the other end that says go 25, cuz people are going to go 34
[2:22:05] miles an hour and a 25 anyways.
[2:22:07] Everybody goes 8 n over and then when
[2:22:09] they the only reason the average speed
[2:22:11] of this becomes slower is because
[2:22:13] there's places like you said where it's
[2:22:15] zigzaggy and it's hilly and you have to
[2:22:16] go slower. So, I I just don't know if if
[2:22:20] that would help as much or more or if it
[2:22:23] needs to be marked in multiple locations
[2:22:27] um going down. I don't know because I
[2:22:29] saw the same thing that Paul saw and and
[2:22:32] the 80 81 percentile of people are are
[2:22:37] already going the speed limit.
[2:22:39] >> So, we already went through this with
[2:22:40] South Main Street because South Main
[2:22:42] Street was 354 3540. It gets a little
[2:22:46] herky jerky.
[2:22:47] >> Back to 35.
[2:22:48] >> Yep.
[2:22:49] >> We worked with the state. We put it all
[2:22:51] 35.
[2:22:51] >> Correct.
[2:22:52] >> It's easy to go with one speed.
[2:22:53] >> Yep.
[2:22:54] >> Then go back and forth.
[2:22:55] >> You know, are there I can't remember if
[2:22:56] I saw signs that said slow corner. Are
[2:22:59] there signs like that on the road?
[2:23:01] >> On Soul Road?
[2:23:02] >> Yeah.
[2:23:03] >> I don't believe so.
[2:23:05] >> Because that would help too to let
[2:23:07] people know when there's a corner
[2:23:08] coming, slow yourself down, go around
[2:23:11] the corner safely. I mean, I don't know.
[2:23:13] I don't I mean moving we just got a um a
[2:23:18] letter from DOT about Whitneck Road
[2:23:22] >> and um they're they're having the same
[2:23:25] thing. They want to work on a turnoff
[2:23:28] and on lane on Whitneck Road and they're
[2:23:30] finding out the DOT is saying that
[2:23:32] there's there's not as much of an issue
[2:23:33] there and if you change the speed limit
[2:23:35] there that the speed is actually not
[2:23:38] going to change. But that strip is
[2:23:40] similar than coming down because you
[2:23:43] come off and it's 55 then it's 40
[2:23:47] >> and then it comes to 30 and then that
[2:23:50] wit neck is in between that 30 and 40
[2:23:53] and what happens is they're they know
[2:23:55] they're coming up to the 40 and a lot of
[2:23:57] people start coming up the hill fast. So
[2:24:00] that does have that multiple seed
[2:24:02] problem similar to what happened here
[2:24:04] opposed to one
[2:24:05] >> but they found out that the majority of
[2:24:06] people going by Whiteneck Road are going
[2:24:08] the speed limit. That's what the that's
[2:24:10] what their test said.
[2:24:12] >> So Mr. Thirstston
[2:24:14] >> so I'm more interested in the volume in
[2:24:18] the segments of the road. Is there any
[2:24:21] way to segment the road so that you can
[2:24:24] tell where all the vehicle traffic
[2:24:27] originates from?
[2:24:29] >> [snorts]
[2:24:29] >> Therefore, you can say, okay, the second
[2:24:32] half of the road doesn't uh have the
[2:24:35] traffic volume, but a certain section of
[2:24:39] the road has more traffic volume.
[2:24:42] >> We can move the
[2:24:44] >> radar sign that actually is trans I mean
[2:24:48] that has some wheels and we can
[2:24:51] >> to a different area.
[2:24:52] >> So, say you moved it past Good Hugh and
[2:24:55] Hawkins.
[2:24:56] >> Yep. and had a reading there
[2:25:00] so that you could see all the traffic
[2:25:02] that's beyond Good Hugh and Hawkins that
[2:25:05] comes through and then you could have
[2:25:08] another one uh by Point Sul Road that
[2:25:13] shows you all the traffic that comes
[2:25:17] from the middle part of the road. So you
[2:25:20] basically could say, okay, this traffic
[2:25:22] comes to here and then this traffic
[2:25:25] originates from this point on.
[2:25:27] >> Yeah, we can do anything. It just takes
[2:25:28] a little time because we got to move
[2:25:30] around and get the study and get the
[2:25:31] data.
[2:25:32] >> You're basically dividing the road in
[2:25:34] half.
[2:25:34] >> So are you trying you would change the
[2:25:37] speed because the volume you just are
[2:25:39] interested?
[2:25:39] >> I'm just interested in the volume from the from the back half to the front
[2:25:44] half.
[2:25:44] >> Okay, I got you. And if you went past
[2:25:46] the good Hugh and Hawkins because again
[2:25:49] you get a lot of voters.
[2:25:50] >> Well, that's what I was trying to figure
[2:25:51] out.
[2:25:52] >> So basically once you get past that
[2:25:54] point you could say okay this is the
[2:25:56] this is residential traffic and then you
[2:25:58] could then once you come to Point Sool
[2:26:02] Road you could say okay this is a lot of
[2:26:06] other traffic.
[2:26:07] >> It just was train.
[2:26:08] >> Yeah. So I um I vaguely remember
[2:26:13] the conversation uh that we had with New
[2:26:16] Hampshire DOT about speed coming in from
[2:26:19] the high school and then down, you know,
[2:26:21] down towards um
[2:26:25] downtown and the up and down of the
[2:26:27] speed gets gets a little goofy from a
[2:26:30] enforcement point of view and it's a
[2:26:32] confusion for the driver point of view
[2:26:34] and I I remember I remember that when we
[2:26:37] started the road
[2:26:39] project,
[2:26:40] >> but I think it was in response to a
[2:26:43] concern at the golf course.
[2:26:44] >> It was
[2:26:45] >> to get the speed down and that's where
[2:26:47] it came from.
[2:26:47] >> It was Sebastian's concern. No, it was concern of uh folks trying to
[2:26:52] come across the you know come across the
[2:26:55] uh uh that um I'm kind of with
[2:26:59] somebody here that says I I I I think
[2:27:02] the speed at SU if you were up and down
[2:27:05] you know in this segment you can do 30
[2:27:06] and this 25 I think that just uh creates
[2:27:09] my personal opinion but people can talk
[2:27:11] about it at the public hearing uh
[2:27:13] confusion as it relates to the volume
[2:27:16] question.
[2:27:18] um
[2:27:22] the planning board or the zoning board
[2:27:26] um had a I don't know if they had data
[2:27:28] on this but uh the boatyard moves a lot
[2:27:32] of boats down to uh the u repair shop
[2:27:37] which is located on Sool Road and they
[2:27:41] want to come back and take another bite
[2:27:43] on the apple and try to say maybe we
[2:27:46] should not repair the boats down there.
[2:27:48] We should repair the boats up on filter
[2:27:51] bed. And I think what's going to happen,
[2:27:53] John, is you're going to see something
[2:27:54] coming in from them about traffic
[2:27:56] volumes, how many trips per day. I don't
[2:27:59] think that's going to answer your total
[2:28:00] question, but that segment of the road
[2:28:02] coming in from Main Street down to the
[2:28:04] boatyard probably is going to get some
[2:28:06] uh some data on it.
[2:28:09] >> Again, I I kind of look at this and I
[2:28:10] say it's you it's a you're 24.5 on
[2:28:14] average. Some people are going a little
[2:28:16] faster. Some people are going a lot of
[2:28:17] slower. I see no harm, no foul. Personal
[2:28:20] opinion on just taking this thing to 25
[2:28:22] and calling it a day.
[2:28:23] >> Okay.
[2:28:23] >> That's my personal opinion. All right,
[2:28:25] John.
[2:28:26] >> So, it doesn't doesn't hurt if you have
[2:28:29] matching data points of the volume.
[2:28:32] >> So, if he says it doesn't
[2:28:34] >> it's not a it's not a big
[2:28:36] >> the the only thing is we're coming into
[2:28:37] the winter months. So,
[2:28:38] >> little makes it a little challenging.
[2:28:40] >> Little bit louder. Uh we're coming into
[2:28:42] the winter months, so it just makes it a
[2:28:44] little challenging for us.
[2:28:46] >> I I would I would agree with that. And
[2:28:48] there probably less traffic going to
[2:28:50] >> Well, not even that. It's just
[2:28:51] eventually snow's coming.
[2:28:53] >> We pull in the radars,
[2:28:54] >> right? So
[2:28:55] >> you pull the radars out of the road.
[2:28:57] >> So if so, if John wants to know how many
[2:29:00] um vehicles are coming out of um Good
[2:29:03] Hugh Hawkins,
[2:29:04] >> Well, that's not what I'm And an easy
[2:29:06] way to do it is to put the sign
[2:29:10] 150 ft
[2:29:11] >> on one side of their exit
[2:29:14] >> and do it for
[2:29:17] all of July and then put it 150 ft on
[2:29:20] the other side of their exit out of
[2:29:22] their driveway and do it for the month
[2:29:25] of August. And then you're going to see
[2:29:29] which which
[2:29:30] >> a lot of this data
[2:29:31] >> but the difference is you can just
[2:29:32] subtract then and you're going to have a number.
[2:29:35] >> A lot of this data is south of it closer
[2:29:37] towards South Main Street. Yeah.
[2:29:39] >> That's where this
[2:29:40] >> because that's what John's looking for.
[2:29:41] >> You want to get the other side.
[2:29:42] >> That's a pretty busy.
[2:29:43] >> We can move the radar there and we can
[2:29:46] get this done next year.
[2:29:47] >> Okay.
[2:29:47] >> Yeah.
[2:29:48] >> John John's looking to see how many how
[2:29:50] many cars come out of Goodwill and go
[2:29:52] down.
[2:29:52] >> No, he's not. He's just looking at the
[2:29:53] volume in the segments. That's my
[2:29:55] opinion. Now, unless we're going to re
[2:29:57] recap the same things over and over
[2:29:59] again, which I'm not being mean here,
[2:30:01] but I want to
[2:30:03] >> I want to go home and watch something on
[2:30:05] TV.
[2:30:06] >> Um, board members, can I get a motion to
[2:30:09] call a public hearing on this?
[2:30:11] >> So moved.
[2:30:12] >> I'll second.
[2:30:12] >> I have a motion in a second to call a
[2:30:14] public hearing, and we can do that on
[2:30:15] the 21st,
[2:30:17] which gives us adequate time to notice
[2:30:19] it. Right.
[2:30:22] A motion on the public hearing to move
[2:30:24] the speed limit from 30 to 25.
[2:30:26] >> That's correct. Correct. We'll we'll add
[2:30:27] that to the motion, John. Thank you. To
[2:30:29] move the speed limit 30 to 25 subject to
[2:30:32] the public hearing because we're going
[2:30:33] to have to revote it when it's done. Um
[2:30:36] and I think we only need one. If we need
[2:30:37] two, then we'll let you know. But I
[2:30:39] think it's only one for an ordinance.
[2:30:40] >> I believe it's only one for an
[2:30:41] ordinance. But
[2:30:42] >> we'll do that. Check.
[2:30:43] >> We'll do that on the 21st.
[2:30:46] I have a motion and a second to uh have
[2:30:49] a public hearing to discuss the uh the
[2:30:52] movement of uh the speed from uh 30 to
[2:30:54] 25 on the on the length of SU road.
[2:30:57] >> All those in favor? I please. I
[2:30:59] >> All right, we're good to go. And does
[2:31:01] anyone have an objection if uh we
[2:31:02] provide a copy of this to the applicant
[2:31:04] copy of the police department report?
[2:31:06] >> No, we should. It's a public document.
[2:31:08] Anybody should have
[2:31:09] >> u to you folks. You can have my copy at
[2:31:12] the end of the meeting. Thank you for
[2:31:13] that.
[2:31:14] >> Okay. And I'll look at that for that.
[2:31:17] >> What? What? What? Oh yeah.
[2:31:20] >> You got to come up to the microphone.
[2:31:22] >> And I hope everybody sign.
[2:31:23] >> We're being a little loose tonight with
[2:31:24] that. Come on up.
[2:31:25] >> If anybody didn't sign in, please sign
[2:31:27] in. It helps our favor.
[2:31:30] >> There was a pencil up here, but I
[2:31:32] brought
[2:31:32] >> How are you, sir? [laughter]
[2:31:33] >> I thought there was
[2:31:34] >> brought his own pencil. Look at that.
[2:31:35] Brought his own pencil.
[2:31:38] >> What can I tell you? What can I tell
[2:31:39] you?
[2:31:40] >> The only thing I wanted to say was there
[2:31:42] was a question about the signage on on
[2:31:43] Soul Road. Yeah.
[2:31:45] >> So,
[2:31:47] >> got to talk to the microphone and tell
[2:31:48] us who you are, sir.
[2:31:50] >> Canon and I live on Soul Road and I uh
[2:31:53] submitted the petition back on the 2nd
[2:31:55] of September, I think. So, the 30 mph
[2:31:58] speed limit sign starts if you're going
[2:32:01] from Main Street starts at Pleasant
[2:32:02] Street.
[2:32:03] >> Okay, that's I remember that one.
[2:32:04] >> Um
[2:32:06] >> then all around the point are advisory
[2:32:09] signs, the yellow signs. So the first
[2:32:12] one is near Frost Camp Lane, 25 m an
[2:32:16] hour
[2:32:17] >> and that's about a half a mile. So
[2:32:20] reducing the speed limit 5 miles an hour
[2:32:22] for that half mile added another 12
[2:32:25] seconds
[2:32:26] >> to somebody's commute.
[2:32:27] >> Yeah.
[2:32:28] >> So it's not a big ask for these people.
[2:32:30] We got 75 signatures uh on the petition
[2:32:34] in three days. We could have gotten 100
[2:32:36] easily. Y
[2:32:37] >> um you know with all respect to the the
[2:32:40] speed that's been reported
[2:32:44] everybody who lives on that road says
[2:32:46] people are going too fast on it and it's
[2:32:48] not safe for pedestrians and
[2:32:50] >> bicyclists and people that want to use
[2:32:52] it
[2:32:53] >> and um
[2:32:56] >> the other side I think it starts back at
[2:32:59] 30 miles an hour after the point and
[2:33:02] from there to forest road is 8/10 of a
[2:33:04] mile so that's 20
[2:33:06] additional time. So, I'm uh grateful to
[2:33:10] hear that they're considering to uh
[2:33:11] reduce the speed limit.
[2:33:13] >> Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Thanks
[2:33:14] for the input. Uh Mr. Wheeler, hang on.
[2:33:17] Mr. Wheeler, do you have anything on
[2:33:19] this topic at this point? At this point
[2:33:21] in time,
[2:33:22] >> not on this topic.
[2:33:23] >> Not at this point in time. Okay. Because
[2:33:24] once this gets dispositioned, if there
[2:33:26] is to be a change, there has to be
[2:33:27] signage and DPW has to get involved.
[2:33:30] >> Linda, did you have a question? Well,
[2:33:31] where I thought you were going on to any
[2:33:33] other business and I and I have some
[2:33:36] other business.
[2:33:36] >> You have some other business. Is there
[2:33:37] any other business?
[2:33:38] >> I do.
[2:33:40] >> Next item. Go ahead, Linda.
[2:33:41] >> Yeah, I I would like to um circle back
[2:33:45] on Kerry Beach and I would like to know
[2:33:47] what steps and by whom is the town
[2:33:49] taking to address the Kerry
[2:33:52] Beachitioner's request for a no
[2:33:54] anchoring zone off Kerry Beach and
[2:33:57] moving the swim lines. It's one of those
[2:33:59] things we got part of it done answered
[2:34:02] about the raking and I don't want to
[2:34:04] lose these two other pieces and you may
[2:34:07] not even know about
[2:34:08] >> this is the first time I hear this. Yes.
[2:34:10] >> Well, surprise. Here's another one.
[2:34:11] >> Here's another one.
[2:34:12] >> This is This happens every few minutes.
[2:34:15] >> Yes. Right. Um, but I just don't want
[2:34:17] the board to lose track of that because
[2:34:20] I really want us to move forward
[2:34:21] particularly on the anchoring and one of
[2:34:25] the of us can come in and explain to you
[2:34:27] what happens off Carry Beach.
[2:34:29] >> Okay.
[2:34:30] >> So, there's a need for an update. We
[2:34:31] won't do it here tonight because we
[2:34:32] don't want to put anybody on the spot,
[2:34:33] but the question is twofold. Number one
[2:34:35] is moving the swim lines out and then
[2:34:38] having some consideration about u
[2:34:40] whatever you want to call it, anchoring
[2:34:42] and rafting up. Um, I continue to be uh
[2:34:47] beused by the answer that says uh you
[2:34:51] can't move them. And when I drive out to
[2:34:53] uh Tufttonboro, the swim lines, you
[2:34:56] know, the way the hell out there and I'm
[2:34:58] sure there's a special reason. We need
[2:35:00] an answer. And uh we'll Jim, we'll talk
[2:35:03] to you about how how that process is
[2:35:05] working.
[2:35:06] >> Okay. Any other business, John?
[2:35:08] >> So, do you know why they're out on
[2:35:09] Tuftboro?
[2:35:10] >> Why? because you have to go way out
[2:35:12] there to get up past your belly button.
[2:35:14] [laughter]
[2:35:15] >> It doesn't drop off.
[2:35:16] >> The literal belly button test. I I don't
[2:35:18] know. I mean, that sounds like a high
[2:35:19] bad visual to me, but uh but I mean, but
[2:35:22] they're out there.
[2:35:23] >> They are, but it's not deep out there.
[2:35:25] It's gradual.
[2:35:25] >> But I think the state doesn't have a
[2:35:27] rule that says uh they have a belly
[2:35:28] button test. It's so many feet off the
[2:35:30] shore, right? So, we got to get that
[2:35:33] sorted. Um and we've had, you know,
[2:35:36] we've had folks at Wilbur Waters tell us
[2:35:38] that. I mean, because they live in the
[2:35:39] neighborhood and they look out there and
[2:35:41] I don't it doesn't matter how many
[2:35:42] boats. There's a lot of boats out there,
[2:35:44] you know, music and all that stuff. All
[2:35:46] right. Any other business, Linda?
[2:35:48] >> No, that was it.
[2:35:49] >> Ryan, Dave.
[2:35:50] >> Okay. Town manager report.
[2:35:53] >> Okay. Um, as the chair indicated
[2:35:56] earlier, uh, today I've been here just a
[2:35:58] little over two weeks. Um, I really want
[2:36:02] to thank the staff, number one, the
[2:36:04] select board, uh, members uh, of other
[2:36:06] boards in the public for being so
[2:36:09] welcoming. Um, essentially what what
[2:36:13] it's reflected to me is that Wolf Bro is
[2:36:15] a a beautiful place on many levels.
[2:36:18] Having said that, uh, some of the things
[2:36:20] that I've been doing include uh,
[2:36:22] reviewing the policies and ordinances.
[2:36:25] I've toured several facilities including
[2:36:28] Upper Beach Pond, the water treatment
[2:36:30] plant. I've toured the River Street
[2:36:32] water main reconstruction project.
[2:36:35] Obviously have gotten involved with the
[2:36:36] community center project. Uh involved
[2:36:39] with the uh downtown dock testing uh
[2:36:43] issue. I've attended CIP and budget
[2:36:46] meetings, visited the Aanaki Lodge
[2:36:49] toward me. Um and um you know that just
[2:36:54] is the the tip of the iceberg. Uh I want
[2:36:56] to get out to all facilities as soon as
[2:36:58] I can. Some of the upcoming things um
[2:37:02] the power supply procurement process uh
[2:37:05] is one step closer to being completed.
[2:37:08] Um as of today uh we did get uh a low
[2:37:12] bidder which is constellation. Uh they
[2:37:15] are have have been our power supplier
[2:37:17] for several years is my understanding.
[2:37:20] We don't have the translation of their
[2:37:23] bid into how that's going to impact the
[2:37:25] rates yet, but we will have our
[2:37:28] consultant come and do a presentation
[2:37:30] for the select board in November. We do
[2:37:33] know that the rate is going to go up.
[2:37:36] Um, and I think we've all been expecting
[2:37:38] that. U, the good news, I guess, is that
[2:37:41] the rate hasn't gone up and I've heard
[2:37:43] 10 years. I've heard 17 years. Um so um
[2:37:49] probably not unreasonable to see a rate
[2:37:51] increase in the in the current
[2:37:53] conditions.
[2:37:56] Uh another thing we've received a letter
[2:37:58] from residents uh representing Elm
[2:38:02] Street and Pine Hill near Route 110A.
[2:38:06] the letters regarding uh truck air
[2:38:09] braing and the the letter essentially we
[2:38:14] will we'll have that at the meeting on
[2:38:15] the 21st. Um in the meantime I'm going
[2:38:18] to be reaching out to do
[2:38:20] um to get their input on on what we
[2:38:23] might do about that.
[2:38:26] Uh I think earlier tonight someone
[2:38:27] mentioned the Whittenneck road
[2:38:29] correspondents from DOT. Uh DOT is
[2:38:32] recommending a road safety audit. uh and
[2:38:35] that they're indicating that the town
[2:38:37] should work with Governor's Landing
[2:38:39] Association and the Lake Region's
[2:38:41] Planning Commission. So, we'll also work
[2:38:43] on that. And lastly, I just wanted to uh
[2:38:47] keep at the forefront that we have RFPs
[2:38:49] for the assessing services that are
[2:38:51] going to be due November 12th.
[2:38:55] » Thank you, Jim.
[2:38:57] Congratulations on your long service.
[2:39:00] Have to put down committee reports.
[2:39:03] Let's start with Mr. Thirsten.
[2:39:05] >> No,
[2:39:06] >> Miss Murray.
[2:39:08] >> Yes, I attended the dockside welcome for
[2:39:10] the uh new town manager and I also
[2:39:13] attended the employees appreciation day.
[2:39:17] I attended last night Wolfboro meeting.
[2:39:19] The committee is starting its
[2:39:21] fundraising. I attended two Wolfboro
[2:39:24] area community
[2:39:27] media center meetings. One was the
[2:39:30] monthly board meeting and the other one
[2:39:32] was the governance committee meeting
[2:39:34] with the public works director. I
[2:39:36] visited the town reservoir. I attended
[2:39:40] two friends of pop whaling meeting
[2:39:42] regarding the chiller. I attended
[2:39:45] several meetings about the community
[2:39:47] center. One was with the builder, the
[2:39:49] town manager, Jordi Hutchinson and Brian
[2:39:52] to review the plans and walk around the
[2:39:55] facility to discuss the changes with the
[2:39:57] new town manager. And we all have been
[2:40:00] lucky to attend two budget review
[2:40:03] meetings.
[2:40:05] >> That's all I have.
[2:40:06] >> Mr. Senle,
[2:40:09] >> as Linda just mentioned, uh we've had
[2:40:11] some budget meetings.
[2:40:13] Linder and I met with the Chamber of
[2:40:15] Commerce in reference to rental of the
[2:40:20] railroad station, met with the friends
[2:40:23] of Abnaki. The motor is here [laughter]
[2:40:28] and is to be uh put together and
[2:40:30] installed hopefully they think within
[2:40:32] the next two weeks. So hopefully that
[2:40:35] will solve that issue.
[2:40:38] uh appreciation day as was mentioned
[2:40:41] dark side with the town manager
[2:40:43] and uh that's all I have
[2:40:46] >> Mr. Duchets.
[2:40:47] >> So we had we had two special select
[2:40:49] board meetings too and then we had two
[2:40:52] budget review meetings then I visited
[2:40:55] the retention pond. We had the dark side
[2:40:57] welcome um with hot dog Bob and um Jim
[2:41:01] Wheeler which was great. Um, employee
[2:41:03] appreciation day, I flipped, um, a
[2:41:06] hundred burgers and I think 140 hot
[2:41:10] dogs. Um, uh, we had the DOT South Main
[2:41:14] project that we attended.
[2:41:16] >> We did.
[2:41:17] >> Um, and, uh, because we're both on that
[2:41:19] commission to push that project forward.
[2:41:23] Um, I've had a lot of um interaction
[2:41:27] with um Amy over the Libby Museum and
[2:41:31] trying to find ways to move stuff. That
[2:41:34] was we already talked about that and
[2:41:36] we've had multiple multiple meetings on
[2:41:38] the community center and we're getting
[2:41:40] real close
[2:41:43] and that's all I've had.
[2:41:45] >> Thank you, Mr. Duchess. Um, on the
[2:41:47] Whiteneck, I don't know Jim if you saw
[2:41:49] this. I don't think you did. Um, because
[2:41:52] it came in just recently. The police
[2:41:53] department has provided crash data to
[2:41:56] the uh Department of Transportation on
[2:41:58] that segment of the road. Last night I
[2:42:01] was with Mr. Senacle with the friends of
[2:42:03] Abanaki.
[2:42:09] All you got to do is look at what
[2:42:10] they're doing and it's just amazing. I
[2:42:12] mean, the motors going in, it's all been
[2:42:14] donated. They're raising money that the electrification of the line.
[2:42:20] >> The good thing about
[2:42:21] >> makes you feel good. Um, at least it
[2:42:22] makes me feel good. I've been at CIP
[2:42:24] meetings. That's why I referenced that
[2:42:27] uh we are we are trying to move the uh
[2:42:31] move this thing along. We're scoring the
[2:42:33] projects right now.
[2:42:35] Um, I did go to the uh planning board
[2:42:37] last evening. I was at the uh hot dog
[2:42:41] bob uh welcome with uh the town manager.
[2:42:44] Same same on employee day. I went up to
[2:42:47] the uh public uh water supply and with
[2:42:51] the uh uh with the members up there, I
[2:42:54] flew the drone over the public water
[2:42:56] supply and had it loiter around certain
[2:42:58] places. Um that's uh that's I think it's
[2:43:02] on the public works website and I've
[2:43:05] been in u uh going over budgets. It's
[2:43:09] that time of the year. Um, I will tell
[2:43:12] you that um
[2:43:15] well I won't I won't mention that. I'll
[2:43:17] mention that later. So with that uh
[2:43:20] questions from the press. Do we have any
[2:43:21] questions from the press?
[2:43:23] >> Well, I have one thing about the
[2:43:24] Whiteneck um investigation. The they've
[2:43:28] since 2019 there have been six accidents
[2:43:31] there. One of them um wasn't there's no
[2:43:35] data on and there's only been one minor
[2:43:38] injury. So, at least we know that that
[2:43:40] intersection is not super dangerous, but
[2:43:43] I'm glad that we're doing a traffic
[2:43:44] study on it to make sure that it's as
[2:43:46] safe as it can be.
[2:43:47] >> Linda,
[2:43:48] >> yeah, I think the problem with that road
[2:43:50] coming out is your visibility on either
[2:43:52] direction. And and that's there may not
[2:43:55] have been crashes, but I'm sure a lot of
[2:43:57] people coming out of there have had some
[2:43:59] real hairy moments. And that's why their
[2:44:02] concern is because their lack of
[2:44:04] visibility. They've tried to put a
[2:44:06] mirror up there and and so I think it's
[2:44:08] they were wise to ask DOT to take a look
[2:44:12] at it in us.
[2:44:12] >> Yeah.
[2:44:13] >> Okay. So, anybody on the press online?
[2:44:16] Timothy
[2:44:17] >> Mayor Chambers the only one online.
[2:44:21] >> Okay. Good. Thank you. Last item is
[2:44:23] public input. 3 minutes. Uh 15 total.
[2:44:26] That gets us u at the 9:00 hour.
[2:44:31] >> I'll be quick. Got a couple of things.
[2:44:34] Uh, as you know, I'm the chair of the
[2:44:38] Friends of the uh, it's a long name, but
[2:44:41] just call it the community center. Uh,
[2:44:44] and this past week, we had our, uh,
[2:44:47] first inaugural, uh, golf tournament at
[2:44:50] Kingswood Golf Club, and I'd like to
[2:44:52] tell you, it's it was very successful,
[2:44:54] raised quite a bit of money. Uh, Brian
[2:44:57] knows the exact amount, so I'm not going
[2:44:59] to say at this point, but it it was
[2:45:01] quite a bit of money. Cool.
[2:45:03] >> Uh, number two, I had uh coffee with our
[2:45:07] new town manager, Jim Wheeler, uh,
[2:45:10] earlier this week. Um, it was, uh, it
[2:45:12] was a good meeting. Uh, like to commend
[2:45:15] the board for hiring a, uh, top-notch
[2:45:19] guy, and we'll see if you stay remain
[2:45:22] topnotch after a while, but [laughter]
[2:45:24] for right now, he's top-notch. Uh, and
[2:45:28] third, um, is a response to Brian's
[2:45:32] letter about the Libby Museum.
[2:45:35] That's a tall order. I mean, uh, it's
[2:45:38] not that, you know, the work is, uh, not
[2:45:41] doable, but some of the stuff, I mean,
[2:45:43] we're talking about deescension. It's
[2:45:45] like you're you're asking somebody who's
[2:45:48] not really a current trustee or
[2:45:50] associated with the trustees to
[2:45:53] determine go through the files and say,
[2:45:55] "Okay,
[2:45:57] we connect you with this artifact. Yes,
[2:45:59] we're going to return it and make the
[2:46:01] decision to return it." What if you get
[2:46:03] it wrong? You know, I mean, so it's a
[2:46:06] it's could be problematic is all I'm
[2:46:09] saying. U I'm not saying that people
[2:46:11] aren't going to want to do it. I'm just
[2:46:13] saying that people are going to want to
[2:46:15] be held harmless, if you will, and they
[2:46:18] don't want to make decisions that's
[2:46:19] going to cause, you know, you guys
[2:46:22] grief, us grief, and the people who uh
[2:46:26] actually loan the artifacts grief. Yeah.
[2:46:28] So, that's that's my call.
[2:46:30] >> Thank you, sir.
[2:46:31] >> Anyone else?
[2:46:34] >> Hi, Suz.
[2:46:42] Good evening.
[2:46:44] Um,
[2:46:45] >> Suzanne [clears throat] Ryan,
[2:46:46] >> first uh I would like to say that I
[2:46:48] agree with the presentation that the
[2:46:50] group put on about the uh testing, but I
[2:46:53] didn't want to take up their time and I
[2:46:57] didn't want to take away from the
[2:46:59] technical information they were giving
[2:47:01] you. Um,
[2:47:04] I'm going to kind of dumb it down to my
[2:47:06] level
[2:47:08] because all the numbers they were
[2:47:10] throwing and the subject matter that
[2:47:13] went with it is beyond me. Uh, but I
[2:47:18] will say that I don't think we can wait
[2:47:20] until the completion of the CIP project.
[2:47:24] uh from engineering design through to
[2:47:29] shovel in the ground [clears throat] and
[2:47:32] I think I heard number like five to
[2:47:34] seven years
[2:47:36] that would take it's going to take a
[2:47:38] long time and so
[2:47:41] what brings to mind to me is some some
[2:47:45] sort of remedial
[2:47:50] action taken there to tide us over and
[2:47:55] I'd
[2:47:56] like to go along something Linda
[2:47:59] mentioned about the town having plans
[2:48:02] passed and in the works and so forth. I
[2:48:06] would uh also like to bring a different
[2:48:08] perspective to that which is the town
[2:48:11] voters had voted on themselves
[2:48:15] and accepted
[2:48:17] the storm water management policy plan
[2:48:22] and the uh provisions that we have under
[2:48:26] the regulations of land use
[2:48:30] and property owners when they make
[2:48:32] changes or development to their
[2:48:34] property. They have to follow uh site
[2:48:37] plan review which includes
[2:48:40] storm water management.
[2:48:43] The town's voters also voted that re
[2:48:47] there are requirements for storm water
[2:48:49] management plans for commercial
[2:48:51] properties when changes are made to the
[2:48:54] property that would impact storm water
[2:48:56] management. As an example, we have a
[2:49:01] historic Hunter
[2:49:03] Sharp and Save in 2023
[2:49:07] that according uh to their engineer
[2:49:11] installed per
[2:49:14] their level of upgrading a storm water
[2:49:17] management plan which was very costly
[2:49:21] and they claimed and I believe that they
[2:49:24] put in one of the best vortex systems in the town of Wolboro. It were very
[2:49:29] costly and above and beyond what was
[2:49:32] required of them. It took care of the
[2:49:34] parking lot and that whole area.
[2:49:38] [clears throat] So
[2:49:41] given that we have this these
[2:49:44] regulations, I don't understand why we
[2:49:47] at the town docks aren't doing something
[2:49:50] to mitigate that problem.
[2:49:53] Whatever it be, we all I've heard it
[2:49:56] tonight.
[2:49:58] Maybe you all didn't agree, but some of
[2:50:00] you said you recognize there's some sort
[2:50:02] of a problem there.
[2:50:05] And it's caused by storm water somewhere
[2:50:09] somehow that's getting there and stuff
[2:50:14] is going into the lake that shouldn't go
[2:50:16] into the lake.
[2:50:18] uh we have a class B lake and under such
[2:50:27] um there are regulations which require
[2:50:30] that you do not do what we're doing and
[2:50:36] so with the idea of some sort of
[2:50:39] mitigation
[2:50:41] um I guess I have questions of the DPW
[2:50:46] and what they do uh on a annual or daily
[2:50:52] or weekly or monthly basis
[2:50:54] and um I haven't heard much about that
[2:50:59] and actually I don't know if we have any
[2:51:01] but I would like some to throw out some
[2:51:05] questions and maybe get some answers not
[2:51:07] tonight but forthcoming.
[2:51:10] So, um, does the DPW have storm water
[2:51:15] policy managements?
[2:51:17] Uh, does the DPW have a dayto-day
[2:51:21] pollution prevention task at the
[2:51:24] downtown dark waterfront?
[2:51:26] Do they clean out and keep clean the
[2:51:29] catch basin of sediment and prevent mud,
[2:51:34] leaf, leaf rot, and auto debris from
[2:51:38] entering flowing uh and flowing directly
[2:51:42] into the lake during or before heavy
[2:51:46] downpours predicted on a regular basis?
[2:51:50] Some kind of a policy.
[2:51:53] Do they have a regular sweeping schedule
[2:51:56] for downtown parking lots and the main
[2:52:01] street area where the in front of the
[2:52:04] Avery building that area to remove
[2:52:07] accumulated road sand, salt, and heavy
[2:52:10] metals before a rain can wash it down to
[2:52:15] the boat ramp?
[2:52:18] Does DPW have a big spring cleanup of
[2:52:22] the parking area and storm drain policy?
[2:52:27] Better yet, what is the written best
[2:52:30] policy, best management policy
[2:52:34] for storm water at the docks, parking
[2:52:38] lot, and storm drain? How do we strive
[2:52:42] to keep a close as close to the Clean
[2:52:47] Water Act at the site as possible? And
[2:52:52] what remedial action will you now take,
[2:52:55] such as knowing there is a problem? Call
[2:52:58] it what you may.
[2:53:02] Um,
[2:53:04] uh, you have to excuse me. I'm still get
[2:53:08] getting over something. I don't know
[2:53:10] what uh [sighs] so
[2:53:17] uh examples of remedial action and
[2:53:21] believe me I I'm not trying to preach to the choir because I know only this
[2:53:28] much but the catch basin has a way of
[2:53:34] having an insert that is a strain a
[2:53:38] storm water drain filter filtration
[2:53:42] way of filtering and I don't know if
[2:53:45] that storm water catch basin down there
[2:53:48] has anything other than what you see
[2:53:51] from when you look at it. So um but
[2:53:56] there should be some routine vacuuming
[2:53:58] that the vacuum truck comes in and they
[2:54:01] pump and and sweeping once a month. uh
[2:54:07] not once a year. Um
[2:54:11] uh sweeping maybe should be bi-weekly
[2:54:14] during summer
[2:54:16] for storm water. Uh think think about uh the water coming
[2:54:27] off the parking lot in a sheet of water.
[2:54:31] Um, could we not have some sort of a a
[2:54:36] sock or whatever they call it that's a a
[2:54:40] on the edge of the area by the by the uh
[2:54:44] ramp that sort of um
[2:54:49] absorbs some of that and and tries to uh
[2:54:53] eliminate all of it going into the
[2:54:55] water. I there's mechanisms again far
[2:54:58] beyond what I understand.
[2:55:01] But um
[2:55:04] I also pulled out the 22 master plan.
[2:55:08] Um,
[2:55:10] this thing
[2:55:11] >> 22
[2:55:14] » 19
[2:55:15] >> I pulled it out for another reason, but
[2:55:18] there's several mentions of storm water
[2:55:20] management
[2:55:22] and it's great on paper, but we aren't
[2:55:24] doing any of it. I mean, we're doing
[2:55:26] some of it, but a lot of it has to do
[2:55:29] with committees and and other
[2:55:31] organizations and writing for grants.
[2:55:35] I'm asking for something to be done
[2:55:37] sooner than later, like now,
[2:55:41] plan for now. And then I'm also going to
[2:55:44] send you
[2:55:47] um I I talked to the engineer who did um
[2:55:52] the uh hunters.
[2:55:54] Um I was trying to find out how much
[2:55:56] money that cost. Um, but instead of
[2:56:00] that, I got some other good information.
[2:56:03] And uh, where did I write it down? I'm
[2:56:06] going to send you the link because it
[2:56:08] had had some good stuff. And uh, what he
[2:56:12] called it was um, a link to jellyfish.
[2:56:17] And I'm thinking, I grew up at Plum
[2:56:19] Island. I know what jellyfish are. What
[2:56:21] the heck is jellyfish doing up here at
[2:56:23] the lake? So that tells you how I I know
[2:56:26] so little about this. But it is a
[2:56:29] filtration uh product and we can ensure not wait six six or more
[2:56:38] years to address the storm water drain
[2:56:41] problem. Whatever whatever we got
[2:56:44] whatever you want to call it that we've
[2:56:46] all agreed there's a problem. So, I'll send you the link. Thank you.
[2:56:50] >> And uh there's a couple other links,
[2:56:53] too. And some of it you know about from
[2:56:56] um the public safety building, too.
[2:56:58] >> Um but I think there's something that be
[2:57:00] can be done and we're skipping that
[2:57:02] step. Thank you. That's
[2:57:04] >> Thank you. And uh take care of your
[2:57:06] cold.
[2:57:07] >> Let's do one more uh because we're
[2:57:09] almost at the appointed time.
[2:57:12] [snorts]
[2:57:14] >> Hello, Bobby Bman. Um, I want to go to
[2:57:16] the Wit and Neck conversation. Part of
[2:57:19] the reason I came tonight, um, waiting
[2:57:21] for a road study audit for the community
[2:57:25] and for that corner. Um, William Lambert
[2:57:28] was very clear and we went back and
[2:57:31] forth on that corner is 43 to 44 miles
[2:57:36] an hour. That's more than the speed
[2:57:38] limit there. This board has the right to
[2:57:41] propose and ask for a 30 m an hour speed
[2:57:45] limit there. And I highly recommend that
[2:57:47] you do that for the for your
[2:57:49] constituents, for the people on that
[2:57:51] corner. Very clear. They did the study,
[2:57:54] asked for it. Why are we going to wait?
[2:57:56] I mean, we know we know the speed limit
[2:57:58] that's happening there. Um, what was my
[2:58:02] other thing? Oh, different hat. Uh,
[2:58:04] budget
[2:58:06] season is upon us. Last year there was a
[2:58:09] sweeping cut. I think it was $30,000 to
[2:58:14] handle our storm water drains and it was
[2:58:18] not put back in the budget and I know
[2:58:21] that we discussed it at length. So I do
[2:58:24] hope this year that that is not
[2:58:26] somewhere where this board feels like
[2:58:29] money should be cut. there are other
[2:58:31] places to cut our storm water based on
[2:58:34] what we're hearing tonight is very
[2:58:36] important to deal with. Um
[2:58:40] we can talk about Kerry Beach later. And
[2:58:44] uh the other thing was I wanted to
[2:58:46] invite people on October 16th, Friday
[2:58:50] night, we will be discussing HB1300
[2:58:53] at Kingswood Regional High School. That
[2:58:56] is a um statutory
[2:59:00] decision that will go on our ballot and
[2:59:03] it's at the town level, but it's the
[2:59:05] town level for the school and we will be
[2:59:08] voting on that and we will have a
[2:59:10] discussion at 6:30. Doors open at 5:30
[2:59:13] and that will be in the lecture hall at
[2:59:16] Kingswood Regional High School. Thanks.
[2:59:18] >> Thanks, Bobby. Appreciate your bre your
[2:59:20] brevity as well. Board members, uh could
[2:59:23] I get a motion to uh go into non-public,
[2:59:25] please? So moved. Second.
[2:59:27] >> I have a motion and a second to move
[2:59:28] into non-public. All those in favor? I.
[2:59:30] >> I.
[2:59:31] >> Holy mackerel.
[2:59:33] >> Thank you, Bobby, for punctuating my
[2:59:35] motion.
[2:59:35] >> She just hit the gavl.
[2:59:36] >> Okay,
[2:59:38] >> all those in favor, I for non-public.
[2:59:40] >> I
[2:59:41] >> Okay, we're in non-public. Thank you,
[2:59:42] everybody. Have a good night.
[2:59:46] » We have some things here for board
[2:59:48] members to sign.
[2:59:49] >> We should
[2:59:50] >> start down this in
[2:59:59] Thank you.
[3:00:00] >> Okay.