[0:03] Okay. Um we'll go on the record now.
[0:06] This has been the time set for which
[0:08] notice has been given for the hearing um
[0:12] here in Woodland Hills. And the first
[0:15] item that we apparently are going to be
[0:17] discussing is the application filed by
[0:20] um Gayen Briggs regarding property at
[0:23] 695 South on Mebo Circle in Woodland
[0:26] Hills. Um, for the record, the people
[0:29] that are present is my name is Judy
[0:31] Lever and I'll be acting as a hearing
[0:33] officer for the um for the city. So that
[0:37] you know, um I'm not I I'm hired as a
[0:40] hearing officer. I don't work for the
[0:42] city um and do an independent. My
[0:45] background is I am an attorney and have
[0:47] been for longer than I would like to
[0:49] admit. Um, and my first the about the
[0:53] first third of my practice I was
[0:56] involved as an assistant city attorney
[0:58] dealing with planning and zoning and
[1:00] building in Salt Lake City Corporation.
[1:02] Um, since that time other changes have
[1:05] been doing that and I'm not working in
[1:08] that area right now. Um, and have served
[1:12] on
[1:14] um, some boards that were
[1:16] environmentally
[1:18] involved. the state has the state fire
[1:20] land board in the oil and gas
[1:22] commission. So, um so that's kind of
[1:25] where my experience has brought me to in
[1:28] this. Um I've elected for the as a
[1:31] hearing officer for Woodland before and
[1:35] I've done it for solid for holiday and
[1:38] for I did one out in Bountiful, West
[1:40] Bountiful. So I have done that. Um the
[1:45] record should reflect the people that
[1:46] are here on behalf of the city and in
[1:49] this particular application. So that
[1:52] would include Will you please introduce
[1:53] yourself for the record?
[1:56] >> I'm Wayne Franson
[1:58] uh with planning and zoning for the city
[2:01] and uh also with ordinance enforcement.
[2:04] >> Okay.
[2:06] I'm Sher Briggs. I live at at the
[2:09] residence that we are talking about
[2:10] today.
[2:10] >> And Gayen Briggs, the applicant. Yeah,
[2:13] it was okay. And the record should
[2:15] reflect that it's being recorded by the
[2:17] recorder, Jody Stone, who is also
[2:20] present. And there is also um the
[2:23] applicant on the next matter that's here
[2:24] in the in the um room participating.
[2:29] Generally speaking, what we would like
[2:31] what I would plan to do is to go through
[2:33] and I would like Mr. France and on
[2:36] behalf of the city to just introduce the
[2:39] background of the process for the
[2:41] procedure of where we are in terms of
[2:43] from the city standpoint then you'll
[2:46] have the opportunity Mr. Briggs and Mrs.
[2:48] Briggs to present whatever evidence that
[2:51] you want. As I've already indicated to
[2:54] you before any exhibits or illustrations
[2:57] that you use will need to be marked so
[3:00] that they can be attached and become
[3:02] part of the record. Um, if you were
[3:04] using something that is already in the
[3:06] record and something that's already
[3:09] attached to the application,
[3:11] um, if I have a copy of that, then
[3:15] we'll put that as the application. If
[3:17] not, then we would have it marked. Okay.
[3:19] >> Okay. And so with that framework, Mr.
[3:24] Franson, would you please introduce us
[3:26] to where we are?
[3:27] >> Okay.
[3:28] Um some time ago, what is maybe a month,
[3:32] six weeks ago, um Mr. Briggs came to us
[3:38] uh with interest of building a detached
[3:42] garage off the uh corner of his um of
[3:48] his home. Uh he had spoken with a
[3:52] neighbor uh about it. the neighbor was
[3:55] uh was fine with what he was proposing
[3:58] to do. He had mentioned to us that when
[4:02] they were um contemplate purchasing the
[4:07] home, uh they were the first occupants
[4:10] of this home. It had been built as a a
[4:12] spec home and hadn't been lived in yet.
[4:15] The homeowner president said that there
[4:19] would be be fine that they could they
[4:21] would allow a garage uh to be to be
[4:25] built there. Uh this garage was to house
[4:29] both a boat and a um and a trailer, a
[4:34] camp trailer.
[4:36] Um so he brought in some preliminary
[4:39] plans to show us and make sure that he
[4:42] was going down the right road with it
[4:44] all. And as we uh got into the detail
[4:49] and discussed it and looking at our
[4:51] ordinance
[4:52] um we all realized that it was it would be
[5:01] counter to our ordinance requirements.
[5:05] uh in that there was not sufficient room
[5:10] uh in the in the area that he wanted to
[5:13] build which he was rather it was
[5:15] confined to to his property and and yard
[5:19] in that area. Uh the main obstruction
[5:23] being a requirement that uh it be 20t
[5:27] away from his from the residence
[5:31] >> from his residence.
[5:32] >> His residence. Correct.
[5:35] Um
[5:37] we our ordinances allow an accessory
[5:41] building including
[5:44] accessory garage that to have different
[5:47] setbacks than the main house structure
[5:52] does. So he would comply those would be
[5:56] complied with. Um
[5:59] >> what are those? And as an accessory what
[6:01] are the setbacks requirements?
[6:04] Um the side setback is 5 feet away from
[6:08] the property line and the rear setback
[6:11] is 10 ft away from the property line for
[6:14] an accessory building.
[6:17] Um,
[6:19] however, there is a requirement that it
[6:22] be 20 ft away from the main residence
[6:26] and that therein creates an issue and
[6:31] problem as it there would not be
[6:34] sufficient room to be 20 ft away of the
[6:38] main residence and still comply with the
[6:40] other setbacks for the side or the rear
[6:43] setback for an accessory building.
[6:46] >> So, um, so from what I'm understanding,
[6:50] then
[6:52] it's five on the side, 10 in the back
[6:55] for an accessory building, and 20 from
[6:57] the house. And it's the 20 from the
[6:59] house that they can't that they're in
[7:01] that they are short.
[7:02] >> Yes.
[7:03] >> What is that distance proposed?
[7:07] >> Um, the the distance where we were
[7:10] proposing to build, you mean?
[7:11] >> Yes.
[7:12] >> From the house,
[7:12] >> it's it's like 6 and 1/2 ft. So it would
[7:16] be from the very corner of the house
[7:18] which is where the corner of the garage
[7:21] would start and then it would go back.
[7:22] So the closest the the two the two
[7:26] corners would be like 6 and 1/2 ft
[7:28] >> from each other.
[7:29] >> Is that is that roof corners or is that
[7:32] structural corners?
[7:33] >> That'd be structural corners.
[7:34] >> Is the roof does the roof
[7:36] >> Are you sure that does the roof overhang
[7:38] to shorten it?
[7:41] >> Maybe a foot.
[7:42] >> Yeah. how you say that. I'm not
[7:45] >> sure.
[7:46] >> I'm not sure. It could be
[7:48] >> our
[7:49] >> the way our ordinance reads, it's
[7:52] >> it's structural. We don't
[7:54] >> the overhang of
[7:56] >> recognize the overhang of
[7:58] >> Okay.
[8:01] >> So, at that point, he realized that it
[8:04] um
[8:06] he would be out of compliance with the
[8:08] setbacks.
[8:10] >> And how big is the building that he's
[8:11] proposing?
[8:13] Uh I do want is
[8:15] >> 35 by 35.
[8:17] >> Okay.
[8:21] » And uh we've talked to him about
[8:24] reducing that size, but then it would
[8:28] not
[8:30] house the boat and the the trailer if it
[8:34] were smaller.
[8:36] Um
[8:39] the
[8:39] >> and it's not just the boat and the
[8:41] trailer, but just
[8:42] >> Well, it's some other storage
[8:44] >> area there, too.
[8:45] >> Okay. Okay.
[8:46] >> Um
[8:47] the
[8:49] >> the 20 foot setback.
[8:51] Um
[8:55] part of that is a
[8:59] from the research that we've been able
[9:00] to do pertains to fire safety.
[9:05] Um
[9:07] but um Mr. Briggs indicated that he
[9:11] plans on building it the building the
[9:13] garage according to code. So it wouldn't
[9:16] be something that would be haphazardly
[9:20] done. It would be inspected as it is
[9:23] built and uh including uh sprinklers. He has sprinklers in his home and he
[9:30] would continue with that fire sprinklers
[9:34] in in the structure to lessen the any
[9:37] fire danger.
[9:38] >> Is the proposed fire sprinkler system
[9:41] would that be required in an accessory
[9:42] building or is that an addition?
[9:45] >> No, it's it's it's not unless it's
[9:48] heated.
[9:50] If the accessory building is heated,
[9:52] then sprinklers are required. Is this
[9:55] >> his building, this building won't be
[9:57] heated. It' just be an added precaution
[10:00] against fire. Uh not only to protect the
[10:04] building, but to protect his home should there be a fire started in the
[10:09] garage. There would be a sprinkler
[10:11] system there to to suppress it.
[10:15] >> Does a sprinkler system
[10:18] Well, I'll I'll reserve my question
[10:20] answer. I'm sorry. So, um,
[10:27] our ordinance our ordinance reads that
[10:31] if it is, if the structure is more than
[10:34] 20 ft away, then it from the main
[10:38] structure,
[10:40] then it doesn't have to
[10:45] there's less code requirements for it.
[10:48] Um,
[10:49] >> what do you mean? has the least less
[10:52] danger.
[10:52] >> I know. But what kind of you say less
[10:55] code? Tell me what that means.
[10:58] >> Um
[10:58] >> fire separation or fire insulation or
[11:01] >> Yes, there there probably not be
[11:04] insulation requirements.
[11:06] Um
[11:08] for it there.
[11:12] If it's if it's closer than 20 ft, then
[11:16] it does have fire sprinkler requirements
[11:22] even though there's no heat in it.
[11:24] >> So, sprinkling is required.
[11:26] >> Correct.
[11:26] >> If it's if it's closer than 20 ft.
[11:31] So, that's another code requirement that would be under issue at issue as well. The
[11:41] sprinklers
[11:45] Yeah.
[11:47] >> Um
[11:49] >> what would be required under the code
[11:52] for strict compliance?
[11:55] >> The setback is the issue
[12:00] » and
[12:00] >> he he wants to build it according to
[12:02] code so that make sure that it's
[12:05] >> I understand.
[12:06] >> What would the setback require?
[12:09] It would require the same setback as the
[12:11] house
[12:14] if it's closer than 20 ft.
[12:17] >> Okay.
[12:18] >> So, the house that it it wouldn't
[12:21] qualify any longer as an accessory
[12:23] building for setback purposes.
[12:28] Then it would and and given that then it
[12:31] has to follow the house setback
[12:34] requirements
[12:35] >> which would which you've already said
[12:37] were the five. That's the that's the
[12:39] accessory building set.
[12:41] >> And what would that change?
[12:42] >> That's what he would have. The the rear
[12:44] is 30 ft.
[12:47] The side is it 15?
[12:51] >> 20 I think. Is it
[12:53] >> 15 one side and 20 the other
[12:57] in that R119
[12:59] area. And the front is not an issue, but
[13:03] it's it's 30 ft
[13:06] over there for front set back.
[13:11] » So, let me make sure I'm understanding
[13:13] the the
[13:14] >> parameters here.
[13:16] >> Okay. Under strict code compliance, the
[13:19] structure because it's within 20 feet of
[13:24] the building
[13:27] still has to
[13:30] meet all of the required setbacks for
[13:32] the main home, which would mean the a
[13:35] rear yard, an extended rear yard, the
[13:38] sidey yard, and the front yard. Correct.
[13:39] >> And you're saying that that would
[13:41] increase those setbacks.
[13:43] Um, so it's considered part of the main
[13:46] house if I mean
[13:47] >> in essence
[13:48] >> envelope on the of the parameters of the
[13:51] outside I guess this is an exhibit but
[13:54] um preserving setbacks on the
[13:58] >> on the property lines correct the
[14:00] original house and be within that
[14:01] envelope or that working.
[14:03] >> Yes. Whereas you're saying an accessory
[14:04] building, if it's treated as an
[14:06] accessory building,
[14:08] then those limitation, those sideyards
[14:11] decrease because they're considered in
[14:13] the backyard or the rear yard. But at
[14:16] this point, there is not a separation
[14:19] that's adequate to make it an accessory
[14:21] building because it's too close to the
[14:23] main would be too close to the main
[14:25] building.
[14:25] >> Correct.
[14:32] What what code what requirements would
[14:43] happen if the building actually touched to the
[14:48] building would be can just considered
[14:50] under that same parameter as part of the
[14:52] original house?
[14:54] >> Yes.
[14:59] And is there a code requirement that
[15:02] requires in the case where there are two
[15:04] separate buildings where there has to be
[15:07] a minimum is it or is that the 20 ft?
[15:11] >> That's the 20 ft.
[15:12] >> Yes.
[15:12] >> And what are the purposes for that 20 ft
[15:16] be? You said one was
[15:20] for fire.
[15:22] >> Yes. And that's that's primarily what it is.
[15:28] >> But
[15:28] >> now we we've done tried to do some
[15:30] research. It's been long explained and
[15:34] carried forward for many years in our
[15:37] city.
[15:39] Most of our city is encumbered by uh a
[15:43] WOOI. It's called a WOOI fire ordinance.
[15:46] This was wildland
[15:48] urban
[15:49] >> interface.
[15:50] Yes. Yes, that was promoted
[15:53] by the um state fire land. I think
[15:56] >> it has been and uh we've tried to do
[15:59] some research on this 20 foot distance
[16:02] and we can't find anything in our WOOI
[16:05] co in the WOOI code that requires that
[16:09] 20 foot distance.
[16:12] We've we've always had it and that's
[16:13] what we've gone by and we've different
[16:16] fire chiefs have just something's been
[16:19] carried on but we've researched it and
[16:21] we can't find where that is addressed
[16:24] that way.
[16:25] >> Has the fire chief made a recommendation
[16:27] in this particular matter?
[16:29] >> No.
[16:30] Um
[16:33] >> he's he's been he's been part of the
[16:36] discussion
[16:38] but he hasn't made a recommendation
[16:40] other than
[16:42] it's in our code
[16:48] » which from a legislative part is all
[16:50] that he has to say but
[16:52] >> yes.
[16:54] >> Okay.
[17:00] Um,
[17:01] >> and we we we will probably do some more
[17:03] research on that to make sure that
[17:09] if it's not part of that, we we don't
[17:12] want to have it. If it is, then fine,
[17:15] it's it would be part of our code, but
[17:17] it it it still be something that
[17:20] potentially subject to variance. But if
[17:22] we don't need it, I mean, if it's not
[17:24] required in our code, we don't want to
[17:27] give impression that it that it is
[17:30] required.
[17:31] >> Now, that doesn't mean the city can't
[17:33] say we still want a 20 foot distance.
[17:36] >> No, you can. And
[17:37] >> for own purposes. So, that's something
[17:39] that's down the down the line that we
[17:41] would have to further explore. Um,
[17:49] and I, and if I didn't disclose it
[17:52] before on the record, let me do it. Is I
[17:54] did take the opportunity to drive by the
[17:57] properties that were subject to this
[17:58] today because it's I felt like I needed
[18:02] to understand the slage and what was
[18:04] going on.
[18:06] Uh in and my question is in this house
[18:10] is that if a variance were allowed,
[18:15] there would not be a way to get a
[18:19] vehicle going at great because the house
[18:23] sits
[18:25] I guess on the directions on the north
[18:27] side of the lot and it slopes off to the
[18:30] north after that and it slopes off to
[18:33] the west.
[18:35] that if you were bringing in and you're
[18:38] at the top of the hill and if you're
[18:40] bringing in or had to bring in
[18:43] um emergency material, I mean
[18:46] firefighting equipment, there would not
[18:49] be a way to get to your backyard.
[18:52] >> No, there would be on the other side of
[18:53] the house.
[18:54] >> Well, but it's down on the slope. But we don't we don't take engines onto the
[19:01] property unless the property is
[19:04] >> on fire. I mean
[19:05] >> well distant distant we fight the engine
[19:09] would stay on the street and it would
[19:12] hook up to hydrants on the street and
[19:15] hoses would be run. That's that's our
[19:21] that's the way we do it here. We don't
[19:24] put engines on prop on the property
[19:26] themselves. It just it it exposes them
[19:30] to fire danger too much and we rely upon
[19:33] the pumping action of the engines with
[19:36] the hoses for fire suppression. So
[19:40] you're, if I'm understanding it, then
[19:42] you're saying that in firefighting
[19:44] things, you would not generally take a
[19:47] vehicle
[19:49] back off of the street anyway because
[19:51] you would have the street hooked up to
[19:54] hooked on up to the street.
[19:56] >> Correct. That's right.
[20:00] >> Okay.
[20:01] >> But Judy, just so you know, so when we
[20:04] do the construction of the garage, we're
[20:05] going to use the other side of the house
[20:06] and come up come up that way. So there
[20:09] is access in the backyard if if if you
[20:12] needed it. But
[20:13] >> there's an easement in there that they
[20:15] aren't using and we were told just to
[20:18] divide it with the neighbor and do what
[20:19] you know we wanted. So we wouldn't do
[20:20] anything structurally but there is
[20:22] access into the back if we had to.
[20:25] >> Yeah. But that's how we're going to
[20:26] bring equipment in to try to because the
[20:29] concrete that we have in there is all
[20:31] got radiant heating in. I don't want to
[20:32] bring heavy stuff in there and crack
[20:34] that. So we're going to actually bring
[20:35] the construction around the other side.
[20:36] Maybe what we ought to do are we are you
[20:40] have you presented the things that you
[20:42] need to wait
[20:44] >> um
[20:47] » I'll ask you for your recommendation
[20:49] after they
[20:50] >> okay the
[20:53] just I guess the last thing I would say
[20:55] is they're they're going to be building
[20:58] this garage as though it were part of
[21:00] the house with code standards and
[21:03] requirements.
[21:05] Everything will be code compliant as if
[21:08] it were an actual part of the house.
[21:16] » But do I take it that that extends to
[21:18] protecting the structure but would not
[21:21] extend to suppressing fire in the area?
[21:25] I mean, it would just be
[21:27] for within the structure.
[21:30] both. It would be it would just be like
[21:34] part of the house going going out the
[21:37] back there and so it would be it would
[21:40] be protected the same way as the house
[21:41] would.
[21:44] >> Well,
[21:46] >> but
[21:46] >> technically it doesn't have setbacks. It
[21:48] wouldn't have the setbacks that just
[21:52] >> correct. It wouldn't have house
[21:54] setbacks.
[21:56] >> So you it's closer
[22:00] Do we um
[22:05] have
[22:09] excuse me seems to me that in the
[22:12] application that I'm looking at
[22:15] is there a
[22:19] um response
[22:22] from this the gay is it gays? So there's
[22:26] two gay
[22:27] >> name was gay gay
[22:28] >> the the gays
[22:31] the gay uh that is the president of the
[22:34] homeowners association that developed
[22:35] summer creek
[22:36] >> we have so we went through them in the
[22:39] process they've approved that
[22:41] >> I'm talking about the prop the owner
[22:42] that would be to your
[22:44] >> what east
[22:46] >> to the yeah to the east
[22:47] >> his mother who lives on this house
[22:50] adjacent to where
[22:52] >> okay
[22:52] >> their property is
[22:53] >> is she gay gay Yes. Yeah.
[22:55] >> Yeah. Well,
[22:56] >> well, now she's gay.
[22:58] >> Gay Matson. Now she's got remarried.
[23:01] But yes, and she's the one that wrote
[23:03] the letter that signed the letter that went over talked to her. She was in
[23:08] full.
[23:09] >> She was actually glad. She says she
[23:10] wanted more privacy anyway and she was
[23:12] going to plant a bunch of trees in
[23:13] there.
[23:14] >> Yeah.
[23:16] But
[23:16] >> that's all the comments that I would
[23:18] have.
[23:18] >> We don't do we have anything from the
[23:21] property owner to the north?
[23:26] against
[23:27] >> the Is that the empty
[23:28] >> the Johnson's you mean to the Oh, to the
[23:31] >> to the north downhill and to the north.
[23:33] I mean, it looks like a property line
[23:35] comes up there.
[23:36] >> It is. It's It's a agriculture
[23:39] land now. And
[23:42] I don't think we they got a a letter
[23:46] from him.
[23:47] >> Yeah, I did I didn't I actually didn't
[23:49] think about asking to be honest with
[23:51] you. So
[23:51] >> because the property will be
[23:54] I mean if he were
[23:58] he would if the regular ordinance would
[24:01] be applied he would have a 30ft
[24:03] separation before having a building and
[24:06] now he would and under this one that
[24:08] would be reduced to 10 ft. Is that
[24:11] right?
[24:11] >> Well and it is the behind our our our
[24:14] lot. So they wouldn't be building
[24:17] directly in directly in back cuz it
[24:19] drops off back of our house.
[24:21] >> I understand. I just was wondering if we don't have anything
[24:25] >> I don't
[24:26] >> from from him. Okay.
[24:30] » Okay.
[24:32] Mr. Briggs, would you Mr. Mrs. Briggs
[24:35] whoever?
[24:38] >> Um I'm trying to I think that was really
[24:41] thorough what Wayne said. So, I think
[24:45] the the concerns that I wanted to make
[24:48] sure we addressed was um was with the
[24:51] neighbor to the east to make sure that
[24:53] she know because she would be the one
[24:56] that would actually see it. But the
[24:59] house the structure would be 50 ft from
[25:02] her home even though. So it it's the
[25:05] prop when you when you saw our property
[25:08] if you saw the rock wall there
[25:11] >> containing wall.
[25:12] >> There's a containing wall. There's actually two of them.
[25:15] >> The lowest one.
[25:17] >> Her property her property comes 10 ft
[25:20] and it it almost looks like it's our
[25:21] property but it's not. It's hers. It
[25:23] comes.
[25:24] >> So where that lower rock wall that is
[25:27] abuts to your cement, you're saying
[25:31] that's her line or 10 ft?
[25:33] >> No, the one up above that.
[25:35] >> Okay. So the second layer,
[25:36] >> yeah, the second sorry, the second one
[25:39] is is actually another 10 ft into uh it
[25:43] would be you would have to come another
[25:44] 10 ft to be into our property line. So
[25:47] it's it's kind of weird how they did it.
[25:48] looks it looks like our property, but
[25:50] it's actually hers.
[25:51] >> We take care of it cuz Second one is
[25:53] actually on her property and the
[25:55] property line is between the two. Yeah,
[25:57] lower.
[25:58] >> That's ex Yeah, pretty much right there.
[26:01] >> So, she's actually visually
[26:05] a little closer than you would expect
[26:09] if you thought both of the rock walls
[26:11] were your property. Her property kind of
[26:14] is in between those two.
[26:16] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[26:17] >> But that 50 ft is from that property
[26:20] line
[26:21] >> to her home.
[26:22] >> Yeah. and we're down from her house. So,
[26:24] >> yeah. Great.
[26:26] >> And and the way it's going to set is is
[26:29] cuz I went over I took the plans over
[26:31] and showed her and her husband and it's
[26:34] actually going to set almost behind her
[26:36] house. So,
[26:37] >> it's really not going to and and it's
[26:39] going to be cut into the into the, you
[26:41] know, the elevation down
[26:45] >> and so maybe she would see maybe 8 to
[26:47] nine feet of that of that building and
[26:49] that's it.
[26:51] Um, how
[26:52] >> how um what is the size of the building
[26:56] that you're proposing?
[26:57] >> It's it's 35 by 35.
[27:02] >> Now, it's not a small
[27:04] >> place. You already have a threec car
[27:06] garage as it looked like from building
[27:09] your home.
[27:09] >> Yes. Yeah. This is a third world
[27:12] problem. Okay. No kidding. Well, also we
[27:15] were doing it because the home does not
[27:18] have a storage room or anything
[27:20] >> on the inside.
[27:21] >> Part of the basement is crawl space
[27:24] because of the because of the elevation
[27:26] change.
[27:28] >> So, we don't have that storage room. So,
[27:30] that's Yeah, I think that's why the
[27:32] house sat on the market. A lot of people
[27:33] liked it, but everybody's like, "Well,
[27:34] can I build a garage?" And I think they
[27:36] were all told that they could. And then
[27:39] we thought, "Well, if we can build a
[27:40] garage, we can make it work." You just
[27:42] asked the wrong person.
[27:45] >> Ask the city, not the builder.
[27:46] >> Was that
[27:47] >> Ask the city, not the builder.
[27:49] >> Well, yeah. Well,
[27:52] >> hindsight's always 20, but uh
[27:55] >> um so I think the concern was was was
[27:58] there any concerns from her and because
[28:01] we're going to make the the finish of
[28:02] the house is going to look um it won't
[28:04] have as much wood on three sides.
[28:07] >> Finish of the garage.
[28:08] >> Yeah, the garage.
[28:09] >> House. But we're going to try to Yeah,
[28:10] we're gonna Sorry. We're gonna try to
[28:12] match,
[28:13] >> you know, we want to take, you know, we
[28:16] want to make sure that that what we do
[28:18] enhances our home and not that, you
[28:20] know, do something different. But
[28:22] >> so you're okay. So what you're saying is
[28:24] your the exterior materials that you
[28:26] plan on using on the accessory building
[28:30] will match your main structure
[28:31] >> part part of it. So the front part of it
[28:33] is going to be Hardy board. currently is
[28:36] actually cedar, but we're going to try
[28:38] to we're going to use hardy board
[28:40] because it takes less maintenance. Make
[28:42] sure it's stained the same color as the
[28:44] house. And then three sides of it we're
[28:46] going to be um
[28:49] we're we want to do stucco because it's
[28:51] a little less expensive, but we might
[28:55] that that part's still in flux a little
[28:57] bit. The but currently it's planned for
[29:00] stucco on three sides and and wood on
[29:02] the front that you would see. And I
[29:04] explain that to to the homeowner next to
[29:07] us.
[29:08] >> So you won't be seeing a stucco
[29:09] structure like something that is down
[29:12] the bottom of your lot. I'm assuming
[29:14] it's on the other property.
[29:16] >> Oh, say that again.
[29:18] >> Going looking from your home looking
[29:21] west down the hill. There was something
[29:24] that was stuck. I don't presume that it
[29:26] was on your property. It looked like it
[29:28] was associated with the other property.
[29:30] >> Yeah, it's it's the people next door.
[29:32] Johnson's next door to us.
[29:33] >> Is that an accessory building as well?
[29:35] >> It is. Yeah.
[29:37] >> And does it maintain the
[29:40] >> setbacks? Does it maintain the setbacks?
[29:42] It's obviously smaller.
[29:44] >> Yes. It's away from the main structure
[29:46] quite a distance. So, it it's
[29:48] >> it has accessory building setbacks
[29:50] >> and it does have the accessory setbacks
[29:53] there.
[29:53] >> Again, that's only 5T and 10 feet, 10
[29:55] feet and 5t. But
[29:57] >> I understand that they're different.
[29:59] >> Yeah. Okay. Um
[30:02] >> um I'm I'm just trying to think. So I
[30:04] think that was
[30:07] one of the concerns we had was make sure
[30:08] that there wasn't any issue with the
[30:10] neighbor. Um and she was she was fine
[30:13] with it. I wanted to make sure that the
[30:15] HOA knew what we were planning on doing.
[30:17] They were fine with it. He signed off on
[30:19] it. Bucky did. Um, and
[30:23] so I think for us it it just again I
[30:28] know this sound like this this is not a
[30:30] third world problem that we're dealing
[30:31] with here. Um but um
[30:35] it would it would be helpful for us
[30:37] because we have in our garage we have
[30:39] stuff stacked to the the even though
[30:43] it's a threec car garage it's a fairly
[30:45] that's I would I wouldn't call it a a
[30:47] huge garage but um but we would like to
[30:52] try to make you know get some of that
[30:54] stuff out. The other thing is I'm hoping
[30:56] to do a little bit of woodwork and I'd
[30:58] like to have a shop to be able to um
[31:01] just have a few like saws and a router
[31:04] and just a few things that I can maybe
[31:06] do a hobby that I like to do, but I
[31:08] right now I I can't.
[31:10] >> Did you um
[31:12] have you determined what
[31:15] Well, I mean 35 ft is pretty deep for
[31:20] garage. Aren't garages traditional at
[31:21] least 20 to 20 25? Just so you know, my
[31:25] the boat that we have, we we we have an
[31:27] old boat,
[31:28] >> but it has by the time this tongue
[31:30] sticks out, it's it's 29 ft almost 30
[31:34] ft. Most trailers that you would put in
[31:36] there will be you'll need 30 ft of
[31:40] clearance.
[31:41] >> Do you only have 30 ft of clearance in
[31:43] your existing structure?
[31:45] >> No.
[31:46] >> How deep are those? cuz it looked like
[31:47] it was three cars and that's usually 8
[31:50] to 10 ft of width for each.
[31:53] >> I I can't angle there's no way we could
[31:55] do that.
[31:56] >> Well, I can't I can't put my boat in
[31:57] there
[31:58] >> because
[31:59] >> so the way that the garage So it's it's
[32:02] it it's uh
[32:03] >> it's access. Well, first of all, it's
[32:07] access, but the second of all, the way
[32:09] the garage is built, so you have the the
[32:13] uh
[32:15] um all the heating and air conditioning
[32:17] and stuff. So, it it's here, it pops
[32:21] back out, goes in, pops back out, goes
[32:23] in. You can't actually I can't actually
[32:26] put my boat in there and get the garage
[32:28] door closed
[32:30] >> because it's too long
[32:32] >> cuz the boat's longer than the garage is.
[32:36] >> The Cuz it it looked like the garage was
[32:40] about 35 ft in length.
[32:42] >> No,
[32:44] >> I don't think it I I'll have to go
[32:46] measure it. But
[32:47] >> yeah, the boat we have is not a big
[32:48] boat. Maybe it's probably I mean we have
[32:50] a freezer there and so I can't that
[32:52] takes up a couple feet, you know, maybe
[32:54] three feet, but I I actually I I physically measured
[32:59] it trying to get figure see if I can get
[33:01] my boat in there and I can't. So I have
[33:02] our boat stored at our daughter's house
[33:04] and I have our trailer stored at our
[33:06] son's house right now.
[33:07] >> Yeah. In Saratoga Springs.
[33:09] >> Saratoga Springs, which Yeah.
[33:11] Um I
[33:13] >> think probably part of what you you you
[33:15] don't see is the house comes into the
[33:18] garage on the on that west side.
[33:20] >> West side. Yes.
[33:21] >> Yeah. So you uh
[33:23] >> I just was the only thing I was looking
[33:25] from was the um attached to the
[33:28] application. Wasn't there there was a
[33:33] site plan?
[33:34] >> Yes. that showed um it been there in and
[33:40] it that's why it was questioned because
[33:43] it it obviously has the three parking
[33:46] lots and looks like I mean parking
[33:48] spaces and looked like there was
[33:50] additional space. I didn't try to
[33:52] measure it out in ter and it was pretty
[33:54] small to see the directions and that's
[33:56] why I'm saying was asking how deep those
[33:59] are
[34:01] because as I understand it if you were
[34:03] talking about strict compliance to get
[34:05] the 20 ft if you moved the south or the
[34:10] entry of the proposed garage if you move
[34:13] that back to get the the 20 ft you'd be
[34:18] um and it
[34:21] And I couldn't tell exactly from the
[34:23] site plan how much whether the room
[34:26] whether the separation was coming off of
[34:27] which line it was coming off of. That's
[34:30] why I asked about the separation.
[34:32] Um
[34:36] because as I understand it whether that
[34:40] the the proposed structure that's back
[34:42] in the corner now and I'm looking at the
[34:44] it's called um
[34:50] it isn't called anything. Um
[34:53] well it's the drawing has a number A1.
[34:57] >> Yeah.
[34:58] >> That's that's a
[34:59] >> one of the
[35:00] >> cycl. Yeah. that has the site plan on
[35:03] it.
[35:03] >> Yeah,
[35:04] >> this is
[35:06] provided that
[35:07] >> is this you provided that?
[35:08] >> Yes.
[35:09] >> Okay. In looking at it and that's why
[35:12] I'm referring is we won't mark it
[35:13] because it's attached to the application
[35:16] >> but it has the marking on it of A1-1 in
[35:19] the right hand lower quarter of the site
[35:23] plan of the proposed site plan as I
[35:25] understand it.
[35:25] >> Yeah. that there is a jutting back as
[35:29] you are you do you have a copy of it
[35:31] where you can look at it and maybe you
[35:33] can explain.
[35:33] >> Yeah. Would you mind I can come over and
[35:35] look at yours if you like.
[35:36] >> You can one you gave me Gen has got
[35:43] » detail maybe in a little larger scale on
[35:45] it.
[35:49] » So we're looking at the same Yeah.
[35:51] Remember the same map it's the A1.1 so
[35:54] that everyone has it doing is
[35:58] the question is is this where the
[36:01] structure is so that the 6 ft we're
[36:03] talking about is just right there or is
[36:06] it back here that's
[36:10] maybe when we we need
[36:12] >> so so
[36:14] >> I mean I could see this side of your
[36:16] garage coming back in but what I can't
[36:18] see is this part right here.
[36:19] >> Yeah. So, um,
[36:21] >> cuz that looks like it's only two or
[36:23] three feet.
[36:25] >> Yeah, it's going to be So, where is
[36:27] this? The very corner of the house right
[36:29] here.
[36:29] >> Uh, that's what I'm asking.
[36:31] >> Is that where your air conditioner?
[36:34] >> Yeah, the air conditioner would be back
[36:35] here. So, it's probably it's going to be
[36:36] more like right like maybe right there.
[36:40] It's right.
[36:41] >> Okay. That's when you can't say there.
[36:42] So, you're saying in the extension of
[36:44] the line it is just under this elevation
[36:47] of there. So the house separation from a
[36:50] detached garage to the next structure is
[36:54] that this location of six or is that
[36:57] this location or what you
[36:59] >> No, it would be off the corner off the
[37:01] corner of that location
[37:02] >> of this garage to where
[37:05] >> this garage is actually going. So if this was really drawn right?
[37:13] >> Yeah, it is. But all the the builder did
[37:16] it for me.
[37:18] Um, yeah. It's
[37:22] >> Is it Is this part right here?
[37:26] >> Is that external to the house? Is that
[37:29] where your air conditioner unit is
[37:30] sitting on that on a pad there or is
[37:33] that part of your garage?
[37:35] >> I'm just looking. Let me see. Is this
[37:37] the door? These are the doors, right?
[37:38] >> No, I think
[37:39] >> those are the three
[37:42] >> three slots. I would have assumed that
[37:44] this was the the entryway, but that may
[37:47] not be right. I don't know what this
[37:48] line is. That's a where the structure
[37:50] end. Whether the structure ends here or
[37:53] whether the structure ends I'm assuming
[37:55] that the structure ends here.
[37:56] >> I think it does.
[37:59] I think I think it does. And then this
[38:02] is kind of the air conditioning right
[38:04] here.
[38:07] Because that looks like like a foot or I
[38:09] mean it looks like a very
[38:12] >> well it's not a great distance. I
[38:14] >> mean because if we're talking about that
[38:15] it has to maintain a 6ft difference.
[38:18] Where are we talking from? Dwayne
[38:20] >> I'm talking about um I think it might um
[38:29] » why not attach it? What would happen if
[38:32] you attached it? But I could, but I mean
[38:36] then it's the housing setbacks.
[38:41] » Well, that's what you're
[38:42] >> the accessory building setbacks,
[38:45] >> not the that's these are the accessory
[38:49] building setbacks here. And that's what
[38:51] he wants to
[38:52] >> so what he is is he wants to have the
[38:56] building the garage considered a
[38:58] >> an attached accessory building as
[39:01] opposed to
[39:03] >> part of the of the residential
[39:05] >> correct
[39:06] >> envelope
[39:07] >> correct
[39:10] >> but I still have we're doing that we
[39:12] need to have a fixed line of talking
[39:14] about where the separation is coming
[39:17] from. I I I actually think the
[39:18] separation is right. I think it's
[39:20] actually probably come down to here. I
[39:23] mean, you know,
[39:25] as far as scale in here, I mean, this is
[39:27] what we we drew how this one would would
[39:30] look, but I think it's going to be right
[39:31] here.
[39:32] >> So, what I'm saying, Mr. Brooks, is that
[39:34] if if a variance were to be granted and
[39:37] allowed that, it's still allowing a
[39:40] variance from here from 20 to something,
[39:43] >> right?
[39:43] >> And it will have to be measured. Wayne's
[39:45] going to have to be out there. to say,
[39:48] "Oh, here it
[39:51] is. We need to have a fixed place
[39:54] from where that would be calcul
[39:59] » and so
[40:00] >> structure."
[40:01] >> If that's this, frankly, that doesn't
[40:04] look like 6 feet to me.
[40:05] >> I I measured it this morning when I came
[40:06] out. 6 and 1/2 ft from where the where this is going to come down and
[40:11] meet my so it's my garage driveway comes
[40:15] down and we're going to it'll extend
[40:17] from the garage driveway out. So the way
[40:19] we came up I mean we we came 10 ft down
[40:23] and said okay
[40:27] I mean I I I don't know that I
[40:30] >> what she's asking is the distance from here to your house structure. Yeah.
[40:34] >> Is it from here to here? Is it from here
[40:37] to here? No,
[40:39] >> it's what?
[40:40] >> I measured from the corner.
[40:42] >> I measured the corner of my house to
[40:44] where this corner is going to where the structure is going to start
[40:48] with the driveway.
[40:49] >> Okay. So, this so this is part of your
[40:51] house structure. This little this area
[40:53] right there.
[40:54] >> Yeah. I think this kind of jets in is
[40:56] what I think this
[40:57] >> Oh, where the air conditioner is?
[40:59] >> Um, no. So, it what it does, it comes
[41:02] over and jets in and the air conditioner
[41:04] is over here. So I'm just wondering if
[41:06] this line came down far enough
[41:09] >> came too far.
[41:10] >> Oh, this line this line maybe should
[41:12] have ex
[41:14] but
[41:15] >> where's the structure is is the
[41:18] structure this line this you know solid
[41:21] line that is
[41:24] at the which would appear to be the
[41:27] north part of the garage.
[41:32] Yeah. I thought this was part of your
[41:34] house structure. This this little place
[41:37] in here.
[41:40] » It is. It is. It is.
[41:44] >> So when you walk into your garage, how
[41:45] do you enter your home? Through the
[41:48] back.
[41:48] >> Yeah.
[41:48] >> So they're What's happening here?
[41:50] >> Over here. So So well you So this you
[41:53] enter the home right here. So this is
[41:56] actually this is part of the home. This
[41:58] is where actually our furnace sits.
[42:00] >> So that's
[42:01] >> not Yeah. Our furnace and air
[42:02] conditioner.
[42:03] >> So this is this is a hard wall
[42:05] structure. Yes, it is.
[42:06] >> The the solid lines.
[42:08] >> Yeah.
[42:10] >> Which makes that like 2 ft.
[42:12] >> So it could be. So the the distance then
[42:14] from here
[42:16] >> to here
[42:16] >> to the structure is not six feet.
[42:18] >> It it Okay. So it it is it actually is I
[42:22] don't know this drawing is exactly
[42:23] >> W.
[42:25] It's from this corner where this starts
[42:27] is 6 feet. I measured it when we came
[42:29] today.
[42:32] So maybe what maybe the way this is
[42:34] drawn is this should be again because
[42:38] we'll have a scale here necessarily is that maybe this should be over this
[42:43] way just a little bit and come down to
[42:45] right here because where my garage where
[42:47] my concrete ends
[42:51] right here is where 6 ft is where is
[42:55] where this garage will start.
[42:56] Absolutely.
[42:56] >> So you're saying from the edge of the
[42:59] concrete this the extension
[43:02] >> this this concrete goes down to here.
[43:07] >> It has now a back up to here. So the
[43:09] concrete goes So are you saying that
[43:11] this is off in this 35 ft? Yeah,
[43:14] probably it's I'm guessing maybe the way
[43:17] that this should should show is that is
[43:20] this line moves in just a little bit
[43:22] because there's from the corner of the
[43:24] house assuming this is the corner of the
[43:25] house.
[43:26] >> This is 6 and 1/2 ft to where this where
[43:29] the concrete starts and where we're
[43:31] going to start to build the corner. That
[43:33] would be the corner. So if I were to
[43:34] grant this and said you are allowed to
[43:37] come within six feet of the norththeast
[43:41] corner
[43:42] >> Yes.
[43:42] >> of your property.
[43:43] >> Yes.
[43:44] >> Right there.
[43:45] >> Yep. That
[43:46] >> directly east six.
[43:48] >> Then you don't have any then that would
[43:50] give you contrary to this map we would
[43:53] talk about that it's over to excess and
[43:55] you essentially being an extension of
[43:58] the access right
[44:00] >> on the of the existing concrete right.
[44:04] Is that that's because we want to make
[44:07] sure that you
[44:07] >> I've seen eight. I've only seen eight. I
[44:09] haven't gone over and examined.
[44:15] » So, it' be 16 ft directly east
[44:19] of the norththeast
[44:23] >> corner
[44:25] >> of the home.
[44:26] >> So, that if that doesn't make it 35,
[44:29] >> that makes it 35. Well, if it doesn't
[44:31] make it 35, you have to cut it down.
[44:33] >> You have to live with it.
[44:34] >> Okay. Got it.
[44:36] >> Now, let me ask a question for you,
[44:38] Wayne.
[44:39] >> When I asked you about whether or not
[44:41] the um for me for me,
[44:46] I don't see
[44:49] any reason that you couldn't comply with
[44:51] the ordinance. You You don't There are
[44:53] reasons you would like not to, but that
[44:56] strict compliance in this case is
[44:58] possible. Let me just finish that
[45:01] thought for a minute.
[45:02] >> Okay. And for me the only way the
[45:04] justification is that if the purpose of
[45:06] that setback is for providing a for
[45:10] wildlife or for wildfire safety
[45:14] protections and you're mitigating that
[45:16] by providing them inside where you would
[45:18] not have to do that.
[45:22] That's a mitigation where you're dealing
[45:24] with the general purpose of what that
[45:26] was required for it to to do.
[45:28] >> Okay. The question I have Wayne about
[45:31] that is
[45:34] um when you talked about from this code
[45:37] and I asked you about is the suppression
[45:39] limited to the interior of the structure
[45:41] or the exterior structure of the
[45:44] property outside and I kind of got the
[45:45] impression that yes it does the interior
[45:48] but that it might have a benefit outside
[45:50] as well.
[45:52] >> Tell me about that.
[45:55] If a structure catches fire,
[45:58] our concern is that it moves through
[46:01] that structure to the outside to the
[46:03] next structure.
[46:05] So,
[46:07] and that's one of the primary reasons
[46:09] for it.
[46:09] >> And it's a risk to you because it puts
[46:11] you a home.
[46:12] >> I understand. Yeah. Understand. But but
[46:17] like
[46:21] But I just don't know. Well, there's
[46:22] nothing in there that's really should be
[46:24] creating fire, but
[46:27] yeah, you're right.
[46:27] >> And he's doing everything that you do to
[46:31] the interior of a home to
[46:34] >> help suppress fire.
[46:35] >> And let me ask but and but for that he
[46:39] but the question is there something that
[46:41] realistically that in as part of that
[46:44] suppression system that's in there can
[46:47] be available. So because my concern
[46:49] would be and as I understand the
[46:51] wildline the wildland urban fair phase I
[46:54] can't even say wildland urban
[46:56] >> interphase
[46:58] >> um is part of that of the separations is
[47:01] because of the of fire jumping from you
[47:04] know one to another which you've
[47:05] increased the risk dramatically by
[47:08] having the six feet. Is there something
[47:09] in terms of suppression that can be
[47:12] available so that if that happens that
[47:15] it would provide fire to suppress
[47:19] exterior, you know, from going here or
[47:21] there so it can't jump or that you can
[47:23] attack it more quickly.
[47:25] >> There's there's standards for exterior
[47:31] materials that's used for a house that
[47:35] has to have a certain fire rating to it.
[47:39] that's in our building code. So, they
[47:41] can't just put up any kind of lumber or
[47:44] any kind it it has to have a a
[47:49] um
[47:51] there's a designation for it that makes
[47:53] it fire resistant for the exterior
[47:57] portions of a home.
[47:59] >> Well, and that makes it
[48:00] >> and that's code. So, so that's that's
[48:03] one of the code items I was talking
[48:05] about, right? where if you throw up a a
[48:07] shed and you just put a bunch of plywood
[48:09] up there as an accessory building then
[48:13] that is then it's less
[48:14] >> it's less
[48:15] >> but and but this is much closer and it's
[48:18] like reaching from here to where Mrs.
[48:20] Briggs and so is there something that to
[48:25] mitigate the risk that it's created by you know by reducing the setbacks to
[48:33] protect to provide better protection
[48:35] >> for my own home
[48:36] >> for your own home for your home and for
[48:38] the for your home and for the garage
[48:40] because it can go either way. I mean I
[48:42] know that fires often start in kitchens
[48:44] and often aren't they often in garages
[48:47] particularly if you want to do
[48:48] woodworking.
[48:49] Um, you know, and you've got a community
[48:53] rating.
[48:54] >> You've got a community that is so
[48:56] vulnerable
[48:57] >> to fire
[48:59] >> and that's where that fire rating of
[49:01] exterior materials comes into play.
[49:04] >> But that the exterior thing is
[49:06] protecting it against fire
[49:11] coming to it. It doesn't it's still
[49:14] going to burn on the inside, right? I
[49:16] mean,
[49:16] >> not necessarily.
[49:18] I mean, Yes, but but it is it's not
[49:21] going to be like kindling on a fire.
[49:26] That piece of wood
[49:27] >> is going to
[49:29] >> it's fire. It's been treated. It's not
[49:32] just the exterior. It's that whole piece
[49:34] of wood.
[49:35] >> Is Is that material different than the
[49:39] um fire rating of the material on his
[49:41] existing home?
[49:43] >> I It shouldn't be. I would say that it's
[49:46] probably going to be better than what we
[49:47] have on our existing home. our existing
[49:49] homes almost all cedar wood. Um, and
[49:52] >> and that's been it would have been
[49:53] treated
[49:54] >> in order because that's a code issue in
[49:58] our city.
[49:59] >> And so if you've got would
[50:02] >> I'm just saying what are the things that
[50:04] he could mitigate to get him better
[50:07] protection that would be more equivalent
[50:08] to what he would get if he had to have a
[50:11] separation.
[50:12] >> Right. One thing I do think so this is
[50:16] the very corner of our house. So this is
[50:18] going all the way back. So the very
[50:20] closest part of this would be right
[50:22] there.
[50:23] >> Right there. That's absolutely I mean
[50:26] >> but you're right. But that I mean once
[50:28] there was a fire
[50:29] >> if there's a fire in here the concern
[50:32] would be your home puts your home at
[50:34] risk
[50:34] >> and and vice versa. Now the other
[50:37] question I had this you know this is
[50:39] nearly a th00 it's proposed at nearly
[50:41] a,000 square feet 35 by 35 right? Are
[50:46] there will the city code allow an um an
[50:52] what do they call an an a sex an
[50:55] accessory building unit
[50:57] >> in that property?
[50:59] >> Yes.
[51:01] >> Does that change what kind of code and
[51:04] materials would have to be required?
[51:09] » If it's within 20 feet it does.
[51:11] >> Okay.
[51:12] >> Let me come back to that again. If it's
[51:14] beyond 20 ft, then there's no there's no
[51:19] code requirements.
[51:24] » So basically, I have to build the same I
[51:26] have to use the follow follow the same
[51:28] guidelines that they build my house.
[51:31] >> Um
[51:33] because
[51:34] >> so it's a plus if somebody's building
[51:36] accessory building and they want to
[51:37] build it to code,
[51:39] then all those code elements come into
[51:42] play. Now, if it's over 20 ft, they
[51:44] don't have to. But if they want to
[51:46] preserve,
[51:47] for whatever reason the surrounding
[51:49] property, etc., they can build it to
[51:52] code. They can put the those
[51:54] fireresistant
[51:56] materials into the building.
[51:59] >> And would you be willing to to provide
[52:01] all of that kind of code compliance?
[52:04] >> When you say fire resistant, tell me
[52:06] like you mean insulation and and and I
[52:09] mean is
[52:10] >> whatever the code requires. primarily
[52:12] it's the exterior structure.
[52:14] >> So, so the HOA has some requirements
[52:18] that you know that we we complied with.
[52:22] I mean, I went through and showed them
[52:24] exactly what as far as the party board
[52:26] on the outside stuckle down three sides
[52:30] and they were they were fine with it,
[52:31] but I I I don't know enough about
[52:33] >> I'm going to say come to them. Don't go
[52:36] to your I mean
[52:37] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I
[52:39] >> well we will now because I mean I've
[52:41] been waiting I didn't want to put in
[52:43] more money till I could figure out if we
[52:44] were going to be able to do it but now
[52:46] we can do it then we're going to we're
[52:47] going to get underway
[52:48] >> because it seems to me that if if we're talking about here and
[52:53] we're talking over here
[52:56] strict compliance would allow you to
[52:58] probably build a 20ft depth that would
[53:03] probably
[53:03] >> it would like if I was to move 20 20 ft
[53:07] away from the structure
[53:08] I mean, if you pulled this back, so you
[53:10] were 20 ft that way.
[53:12] >> We We looked at
[53:14] >> You can't get there.
[53:14] >> Yeah. You You can't
[53:16] >> You can't get there.
[53:17] >> We can't.
[53:18] >> It doesn't work.
[53:19] >> So 20 ft. This looks like it's what?
[53:22] Maybe
[53:24] that's 5T. This is less than five.
[53:26] >> Yeah, that might be like
[53:30] >> three. But again, keep in mind, we did
[53:32] our best to try to figure out scale, but
[53:34] I think this needs to come in just a
[53:36] little bit because I actually guarantee
[53:39] you that it's six at least six feet away
[53:42] from the corner of the house where a
[53:44] garage would start. So,
[53:47] >> but that's right. Would be rightly
[53:49] >> if it's right there, whatever. But then
[53:51] from there, we measured over and so we
[53:53] ran a line, you know, make sure that we
[53:55] were 5 ft off of Gay's property line. We
[53:57] know we know the property line. We
[53:59] strung it.
[54:01] >> Yeah. And then we um and 10 feet off the
[54:04] back and measured this out the builder.
[54:07] >> And that gives you the 35.
[54:08] >> Give us the 35 ft. We may have to shrink
[54:10] it to 34. Um it but currently we could
[54:15] get 35 in there. The problem is that if
[54:18] you try to move it over and take the 20
[54:20] ft, so you go into our house and you got
[54:23] to go then it would really kind of look
[54:25] weird.
[54:27] But but we can't that's it's a mood
[54:29] issue because it's not big enough
[54:31] anyway.
[54:32] So
[54:36] » because
[54:40] » if you come if you leave the depth here
[54:44] but are not
[54:46] >> this is where we need the depth really
[54:50] this way
[54:50] >> you right so they need the depth but if
[54:53] you move the size so it wasn't as wide
[54:56] would it get get it back
[54:59] >> it so you know you mean to buy 20 ft.
[55:02] >> Yeah.
[55:03] >> You know, it we decided
[55:04] >> Well, cuz that was 15 ft. Is it a 15 If
[55:07] you're adding Well, but that's going
[55:09] over here.
[55:11] >> Do you add 20 ft to that? You It makes
[55:13] it so it it really doesn't work
[55:16] >> because the garage then becomes I mean,
[55:20] if I'm going to put this kind of money
[55:21] into the garage, I want to be able to
[55:23] put my like I'm hoping to put a trailer
[55:25] and a boat in there. If not, for sure, a
[55:28] boat. um and and then do some other
[55:32] stuff. It just it just shrinks it down
[55:35] to the size that does I mean we wouldn't
[55:37] well
[55:37] >> we wouldn't build shrinks it down to an
[55:39] accessory size.
[55:43] » Yeah.
[55:44] >> Um
[55:45] >> we we've had accessory buildings that
[55:47] are 60 by 60.
[55:49] >> I not in that area
[55:54] >> but the size of it is not
[55:55] >> so this is interesting I think. I don't
[55:57] know. So yeah, it doesn't matter. The
[56:00] lot across the street is a villa, which
[56:02] is weird, is a villa lot.
[56:06] So that makes their setbacks. They're
[56:08] not even maybe 10 ft from the house next
[56:12] door.
[56:13] >> Um, and that house is bigger than our
[56:16] house square footage wise
[56:18] >> and it's a villa.
[56:20] >> They apparently this was apparently a
[56:22] villa lot when they when they
[56:24] >> I don't know what that means.
[56:26] just on a bridge.
[56:27] >> Never mind.
[56:28] >> It was a different It's getting into the
[56:30] different zone probably.
[56:31] >> Yeah. Covers different zones
[56:34] across the street, but they combined
[56:36] ourses to the villas. You're right. I'm
[56:38] in the weeds.
[56:40] >> Um I know they're really fun to get
[56:42] into, but where we need to go.
[56:46] >> I have a thought if I can interject if
[56:48] you're
[56:49] >> Okay, introduce your name then.
[56:50] >> I'm Aaron Lloyd.
[56:52] >> Hello, Erin.
[56:53] >> Um hello. So if your concern is being
[56:56] closer than 20 ft in the fire between
[56:59] the two in the fire suppression system,
[57:02] it's very simple to add exterior fire
[57:07] sprinklers and have a dry whip that
[57:10] attaches to it that if a fire is coming
[57:14] from the house to the garage or the
[57:16] garage to the house
[57:18] >> that it would start either way. Dry
[57:21] whips on a fire sprinkler system are
[57:23] about $650
[57:25] a head. And if it's only at the corner,
[57:29] I'm not a fire sprinkler guy, but I do
[57:31] know you probably wouldn't need that
[57:33] many. So, it's not a huge cost,
[57:35] >> but that could bridge the gap of keeping
[57:38] the fire in contained to one
[57:41] >> area. Aaron's a builder, I might say.
[57:44] So, he's
[57:46] >> interesting knowledgeable about some of
[57:47] those things. and thanks for picking up
[57:49] on my concern and seeing if there was a
[57:51] way to solve the problem because I know
[57:54] that the p the general purpose is we've
[57:56] talked about it is to provide that kind
[58:00] of protection for the risk because you
[58:02] wouldn't want to be coming having a fire
[58:04] coming up that hill and hit your garage
[58:06] and
[58:06] >> hit your house and and take them both
[58:09] out when
[58:10] >> you would have had a chance to fight it
[58:12] had they've been separated longer.
[58:13] >> Yeah. So, it's probably going to fit
[58:15] extra e exterior materials, including
[58:17] the roof and the and your siding and all
[58:21] of that. That would be required.
[58:23] >> Just real quick, cuz I don't know, but
[58:25] is stucco on three sides and hardy board
[58:28] on is is that fire resistant at all?
[58:32] >> It's not a class A system, but it's
[58:34] better than cedar, but treated cedar is
[58:36] probably the same. Hardy board is better
[58:39] because it's cement composite.
[58:41] >> Yeah. But it is better. They're not
[58:45] going to strike in strike in amber, but
[58:47] you could do a class A fire system on
[58:50] the outside of the house.
[58:52] >> Yeah.
[58:52] >> Okay.
[58:53] >> That could meet that.
[58:54] >> Okay.
[59:03] Do you want any comments that you
[59:05] want to make on behalf of the city in
[59:06] terms of
[59:07] >> No, we're
[59:11] we don't have any objections to what
[59:14] he's proposed
[59:16] given the research that we've done on
[59:19] it.
[59:21] Um,
[59:23] so
[59:25] and with the other elements involved
[59:27] with the HOA and telling him he could do
[59:31] it and we're trying to work with him to
[59:35] bring the HOA to some degree and educate
[59:38] them to
[59:41] >> well and I appreciate the fact that I
[59:43] hope you appreciate the fact that your
[59:45] city is trying to resolve an issue that
[59:49] um someone helps kind of created for
[59:52] them.
[59:53] >> And um
[59:55] >> so property owners should deal with
[59:58] cities and then go to the HOA. I mean, I
[1:00:01] know you have to make both people happy,
[1:00:03] but
[1:00:05] your HOA has more latitude to change
[1:00:07] than your city does. And the city is
[1:00:09] doing it. I have a concern in the fact
[1:00:12] that
[1:00:14] I can't say that there's anything about
[1:00:16] this lot that cannot be complied with as
[1:00:21] under code strictly with strict
[1:00:23] compliance.
[1:00:24] However, I do see that it is
[1:00:27] complicating the fact that
[1:00:31] um what you're proposing
[1:00:35] for it really designs on it being
[1:00:38] considered an attached garage rather
[1:00:41] than part of the the house and bound by
[1:00:44] the the setbacks that would be required
[1:00:46] for the house.
[1:00:48] The mitigating factor to me is that the
[1:00:52] only reason I can justify in that or
[1:00:55] consider that is that if you bring those
[1:00:58] up to provide the kind of suppression
[1:01:00] that is require I mean it's contemplated
[1:01:02] as I see for the general purpose of
[1:01:04] suppressing and being able to deal with
[1:01:06] a fire and not allowing it to
[1:01:08] communicate between each other. And so
[1:01:11] dealing with the external tip materials
[1:01:13] in a fire safety
[1:01:15] um
[1:01:17] system that will allow suppression,
[1:01:19] exterior suppression. You called it a
[1:01:23] >> drywood.
[1:01:24] can also do it with just a regular
[1:01:26] sprinkler system that is um like a
[1:01:30] glycol based and you could actually run
[1:01:32] it all the way around
[1:01:34] >> the exterior in the eaves and it
[1:01:38] wouldn't be
[1:01:38] >> so that's how they deal with freezing is
[1:01:41] they use glycol in it
[1:01:42] >> either glycol yep or the dry whip it's
[1:01:45] in the house and it's got like a
[1:01:47] three-foot tether to the sprinkler that
[1:01:50] goes outside and the sensor is out here
[1:01:53] but It controls a valve here that if
[1:01:56] there's a fire, it kicks the valve,
[1:01:59] shoots the water up there. That way, you
[1:02:00] don't have it to have the glycol system.
[1:02:03] So, there's two ways of designing it and
[1:02:05] doing it.
[1:02:05] >> We probably have to have the glycol
[1:02:07] system because we're not going to have a
[1:02:08] heating system inside the garage.
[1:02:10] >> Yeah, glycol would be better in that
[1:02:12] case. Well, and and whether because I
[1:02:15] know that at least in the area that I
[1:02:17] live that large garages often tend to
[1:02:20] have dwelling units above it when you
[1:02:23] for good reasons. Um it's more
[1:02:25] affordable housing and we have these
[1:02:27] children that come back and
[1:02:28] grandchildren that
[1:02:30] >> that we love to have with generational
[1:02:32] living. Um
[1:02:35] and so that I can in this case consider
[1:02:40] that while it
[1:02:42] with with the condition that you submit
[1:02:47] a system whether that is a dry whip
[1:02:50] system or another system that will be
[1:02:52] required by the fire department to be
[1:02:54] approved that will provide the ability
[1:02:57] for providing fire suppression outside
[1:02:59] of the exteriors to protect both
[1:03:02] buildings from uh fire, you know, moving
[1:03:06] either way,
[1:03:07] >> right?
[1:03:08] >> That
[1:03:09] I believe that that will advance the
[1:03:12] general purpose as well as deal with
[1:03:15] your particular
[1:03:17] issue that's involved
[1:03:20] and provide you the protection that would be
[1:03:25] accommodated by the setback if the
[1:03:27] setback were there.
[1:03:29] Um I I mean the last thing I want to do
[1:03:32] is create a situation where it would
[1:03:35] have my home burn down. So I so as we go
[1:03:39] as we started to go through this and I
[1:03:40] realized oh my gosh we got to do a
[1:03:42] variance. We we actually stopped kind of
[1:03:44] going further until we had this
[1:03:47] >> but but you're but I don't have any
[1:03:50] problem with that because we want to
[1:03:51] protect our main you know
[1:03:53] >> the other thing is is that I would put a
[1:03:55] waiver that you would proceed to the
[1:03:57] root
[1:03:58] Sorry, I'm not sure what that's doing.
[1:04:01] That be a waiver of any um liability
[1:04:03] against the city against as a property
[1:04:06] on the lean for anybody for anybody
[1:04:09] owning the home now or grabbed your lean
[1:04:12] that wave immunity
[1:04:15] if in fact there's a fire that occurs
[1:04:17] there because you've enhanced the the
[1:04:20] hazard.
[1:04:21] Um,
[1:04:23] and and I don't mean to wave your
[1:04:26] rights, but I mean you're you're asking
[1:04:27] the city to do something that will
[1:04:30] increase the risk in the event of a
[1:04:33] firefighting that will implicate your
[1:04:35] own home. And it isn't appropriate in my
[1:04:38] opinion to have a turnaround and claim
[1:04:40] the city. Well, you know, my fire my
[1:04:43] house burned down because the fire came
[1:04:45] up the backside and it went to the
[1:04:46] garage and it went to the house and it's
[1:04:48] your fault for letting me put and it may
[1:04:51] not be you. It may be whoever you sell
[1:04:53] it to,
[1:04:53] >> right? Understand that.
[1:04:55] >> And that that um that that's a waiver of
[1:04:58] that claim
[1:05:00] um that will be record.
[1:05:03] But
[1:05:03] >> wouldn't that apply to anybody that
[1:05:06] builds a home in there then? I mean I
[1:05:07] mean you build a home in there and the
[1:05:09] fire for example you're going to build a
[1:05:11] lot that home is not more than 10 ft
[1:05:14] from the other home. So what happens if
[1:05:16] that home starts on fire I mean
[1:05:20] and then moves to the other home I mean
[1:05:22] aren't we talking about the same the
[1:05:23] same kind of thing? There's always
[1:05:25] liability attached to anything that you
[1:05:29] do. Yeah,
[1:05:29] >> there is. But you're creating the li
[1:05:31] you're you're adding to the liability,
[1:05:34] >> right? I understand what you're saying.
[1:05:36] >> Risk
[1:05:38] understand what you're saying.
[1:05:39] >> Just to add a little bit, I don't want
[1:05:42] to
[1:05:43] add confusion. There's other lots in
[1:05:46] that same area that have less setbacks,
[1:05:51] distance. So, and that's the point that
[1:05:54] Mr. Briggs is making uh he's building
[1:05:56] across the street from a house that has
[1:05:59] less setback than what his house does
[1:06:02] because it's a different zone.
[1:06:04] >> Well, but
[1:06:04] >> but the the threat is is essentially the
[1:06:07] same. It's it's not any greater than what his home
[1:06:14] has.
[1:06:16] But I I I understand. I know what you're
[1:06:18] saying.
[1:06:19] >> I I and so do I. And I and I don't thing
[1:06:21] is I don't want to get sued because you know we built this garage
[1:06:26] and for some reason it it it catches
[1:06:29] fire and it doesn't just get my house it
[1:06:30] gets somebody else's house. It it would
[1:06:32] be very unlikely because of the
[1:06:34] separation but
[1:06:35] >> well and that's what the separation is
[1:06:37] intended to do is to slow that down. So
[1:06:39] by having your suppression in my thinking is that that's compensating
[1:06:48] for the um for the lack of the
[1:06:50] separation by having the suppression and
[1:06:52] it will be you know
[1:06:54] >> makes sense makes good sense
[1:06:56] >> provides that to you and u because
[1:06:58] otherwise
[1:06:59] >> you know otherwise you could comply but
[1:07:02] you can't get what you want
[1:07:05] but in getting what you want it can pose
[1:07:07] a certain risk and things and So if you
[1:07:09] can mitigate that in my mind
[1:07:11] >> to compensate for that and to provide it
[1:07:14] then
[1:07:14] >> and and so that means your exterior
[1:07:16] materials would need and they probably
[1:07:18] would need to be approved by the fire
[1:07:20] chief.
[1:07:20] >> Okay, being um the suppression the
[1:07:23] outside exterior protect suppression as
[1:07:26] capability as well as whatever would be
[1:07:29] required on the inside as if it were
[1:07:32] considered part of your residence. So, I
[1:07:34] guess the question I have, and this is a
[1:07:35] builder question, but what kinds of
[1:07:37] materials on the exterior of your house
[1:07:40] are I mean, I don't know what the fire
[1:07:42] chief's going to say. I have no idea
[1:07:44] what the fire chief's going to say, but
[1:07:45] >> Well, there's a building code that's
[1:07:47] that that that
[1:07:50] says what the rating has to be.
[1:07:52] >> Okay. All right. I'll have to look into
[1:07:54] that.
[1:07:54] >> Things that you can do because I do
[1:07:57] build in moo areas.
[1:08:00] um half inch or 5/8 um exterior grade
[1:08:04] drywall underneath the siding.
[1:08:06] >> Okay. So, we're using 5/8 inch
[1:08:09] sheetrock.
[1:08:10] >> Yeah. But on the outside. So, you'd have
[1:08:12] to use um they have exterior grade.
[1:08:15] They're made for fire. You can put that
[1:08:17] on the outside underneath your sighting.
[1:08:21] That would give you a class A system.
[1:08:24] You could use a metal sighting, too.
[1:08:25] That could get you there. They have an
[1:08:27] underllayment for Wooi. have to use a
[1:08:29] fire retardant underllayment. You could
[1:08:32] I'm sure there's a system that you could
[1:08:33] run that vertically, too.
[1:08:36] >> But yeah, there's tons of options that I'm sure the fire chief knows even
[1:08:41] better than me. But yeah, those are a
[1:08:42] few.
[1:08:45] >> Um,
[1:08:49] so
[1:08:53] I will do a written order
[1:08:55] of this being a
[1:08:59] But we would
[1:09:02] grant the variance for the detached
[1:09:05] garage to be considered as a detached
[1:09:07] garage and maintain the existing
[1:09:10] separation or the the required setbacks
[1:09:13] on the north and the east side but allow
[1:09:16] it
[1:09:16] >> the existing building setbacks
[1:09:18] >> for the garage structure.
[1:09:20] >> Yes. Um and with the with the variance
[1:09:24] of the reducing the 20 foot setback to
[1:09:30] a line extending from the existing
[1:09:33] concrete is that
[1:09:38] » okay so we have a place that's
[1:09:41] >> Yep.
[1:09:42] >> Um not to go any closer than that and
[1:09:44] going so if that's not 35 ft you don't
[1:09:48] get 35 ft you get from
[1:09:50] >> Got it. concrete in place
[1:09:52] >> and um but that that is conditioned upon
[1:09:55] you
[1:09:57] meeting with the I mean complying with
[1:09:59] what the fire chief will require for
[1:10:02] bringing that the garage is constructed
[1:10:07] as and meets the codes as if it were
[1:10:10] part of the residence.
[1:10:11] >> Okay. And that it provides a um
[1:10:15] suppression system
[1:10:18] for exterior
[1:10:21] well exterior suppression water superior
[1:10:25] >> um to pro to protect
[1:10:29] both the home and
[1:10:32] the garage.
[1:10:33] >> Okay.
[1:10:34] >> Is that
[1:10:34] >> so would that Yeah. I guess the question
[1:10:36] I have is would that exterior
[1:10:37] suppression then
[1:10:40] I relate to just the side of the house
[1:10:43] where is closest to our house? Are you
[1:10:45] talking about the entire facil the
[1:10:47] entire building?
[1:10:50] >> I' I'd suggest you don't the entire
[1:10:52] building all the way around it.
[1:10:54] >> Okay. Okay.
[1:10:56] >> I think you I would leave that to the
[1:10:59] fire chief. I would think that it would
[1:11:00] be at least these two facades.
[1:11:02] >> Yeah. At least the at least the north
[1:11:04] and the
[1:11:05] >> and the east.
[1:11:06] >> In the east.
[1:11:06] >> Yeah.
[1:11:07] >> Um
[1:11:13] » or the west cuz that's in our side.
[1:11:14] Okay, I got it.
[1:11:15] >> The west is um
[1:11:17] >> west is on our side, but
[1:11:20] >> well the west is downside, but you don't
[1:11:21] have trees there and you've got large
[1:11:23] separations,
[1:11:24] >> right? Right.
[1:11:25] >> So I would leave that to the fire chief,
[1:11:27] but it would include at least this
[1:11:28] portion to provide the equivalent time
[1:11:33] >> as of the separation being there.
[1:11:35] >> Okay.
[1:11:37] >> In lie of the separate basically
[1:11:39] providing it in li of the separation.
[1:11:41] >> The last thing I want to do is have a
[1:11:43] fire that would would affect our home or
[1:11:45] anybody else's home. So I'm totally good
[1:11:47] with that.
[1:11:49] See, and and I don't have a problem if
[1:11:52] you're detached garages in that's having
[1:11:53] an ABU in it. But that's neither here nor there.
[1:12:00] >> Um,
[1:12:01] >> and someday when you sell a boat and
[1:12:03] sell a trailer, then maybe you turn it
[1:12:05] into an ADU.
[1:12:07] >> Well, is it two story or one? I figured
[1:12:09] it probably
[1:12:11] one story. It'll be high, but it'll be
[1:12:13] one story. So, you get a garage in.
[1:12:15] >> I would say gosh, take it up another
[1:12:18] that our kids are not coming back to
[1:12:21] live.
[1:12:21] >> No, we did that already.
[1:12:24] >> We have 22 grandchildren. So,
[1:12:26] >> so am I.
[1:12:27] >> Do you really?
[1:12:27] >> You have to.
[1:12:28] >> Good for you.
[1:12:29] >> You get it then.
[1:12:30] >> I get it. But they come back.
[1:12:34] >> Like you'll have grandkids back and
[1:12:35] forth.
[1:12:36] >> Yeah. And And you want them back,
[1:12:37] >> you know. Well, I'm just kidding. I But
[1:12:39] nobody's going to be living in the
[1:12:40] garage cuz there's not going to be music
[1:12:42] for that. Well,
[1:12:45] >> you know, you never say never.
[1:12:47] >> Well, that's true.
[1:12:48] >> Anyway, any other questions?
[1:12:52] >> Okay.
[1:12:52] >> Do you have any questions?
[1:12:56] » And is it all Is it all right if we keep
[1:12:58] this?
[1:12:59] >> Is it okay for us to keep this?
[1:13:00] >> Can they keep this?
[1:13:03] >> Yeah, you can keep that. I have I have
[1:13:05] another And I have the bigger copy of
[1:13:07] it. Oh, you have the bigger copy of it,
[1:13:10] don't you? I'm going to put the X right
[1:13:11] there on the mark of where the
[1:13:13] concrete's going.
[1:13:15] >> Then I need this. Well, I need one of
[1:13:17] those back. So,
[1:13:18] >> she she can give you this one. I mean,
[1:13:22] the one that was attached to the
[1:13:23] application she could give you back if
[1:13:25] you don't need the big one.
[1:13:26] >> Okay. Well, I I don't think I
[1:13:28] >> The big one is a copy. That's one you
[1:13:30] gave me. And it's a copy. I think
[1:13:32] something else should be
[1:13:34] >> or don't we take it to Jelly and Do you
[1:13:36] have a copier? You can have it. I I know
[1:13:39] where it's at if I have to come back and
[1:13:40] get it.
[1:13:40] >> Well, yeah. Show to Wayne because Wayne
[1:13:42] will have access to it.
[1:13:44] >> Yeah.
[1:13:46] >> But the X marks the spot.
[1:13:48] >> Okay.
[1:13:53] » Yeah. Well, sorry.
[1:13:54] >> Hope remembering your name.
[1:13:57] >> Yeah.
[1:13:58] >> This is our first round of ever doing
[1:14:00] anything like this. So,
[1:14:01] >> well, these are
[1:14:02] >> sending my musual things because they're
[1:14:05] usually really good reasons for why
[1:14:07] cities enact ordinances
[1:14:09] >> and these guys don't have the ability
[1:14:11] not to.
[1:14:14] >> No, I
[1:14:15] >> they've been great. Honestly, I haven't
[1:14:17] had no
[1:14:18] >> We live on Nebo Circle by
[1:14:20] >> Once we learned that that this wasn't
[1:14:22] going to work cuz we actually thought it
[1:14:24] was going to and then we found out,
[1:14:25] well, you have to do these setbacks.
[1:14:27] He's like, "Okay, then we got to figure
[1:14:30] this out if we can." You know,
[1:14:31] >> I will be construction. So, I used to
[1:14:33] work
[1:14:34] >> without without the compensating thing.
[1:14:36] I don't
[1:14:36] >> actually started I wouldn't have gotten
[1:14:38] my recommendation.
[1:14:39] >> I don't work here now for a company
[1:14:41] called Jackson.
[1:14:42] >> Honestly, it's protecting protecting us
[1:14:44] anyway. So,
[1:14:45] >> beautiful.
[1:14:47] >> Yeah. It's protecting your larger home
[1:14:49] and your investment that you kind of
[1:14:50] lose
[1:14:50] >> which is sizable
[1:14:53] >> which you wouldn't want to lose for
[1:14:56] >> a garage or a boat because those are
[1:14:57] both insurable. Well, I guess everything
[1:14:59] else, but you don't want to
[1:15:00] >> You know what? It's funny because I
[1:15:02] mean,
[1:15:03] >> yes.
[1:15:04] >> Yeah, there's big boat and and the
[1:15:07] trailer. It's
[1:15:08] >> We actually own that.
[1:15:09] >> It's allowing us to get a little bit
[1:15:11] more operating room inside of our garage
[1:15:13] cuz it's pretty packed right now.
[1:15:16] >> And I can replace it's not a big third
[1:15:18] world problem,
[1:15:19] >> but
[1:15:22] it makes it nicer for us. I know
[1:15:28] » if you do something.
[1:15:30] >> Appreciate your time. Is that anything
[1:15:31] else on this?
[1:15:33] >> Exactly.
[1:15:36] >> You got it. Will you mark that as
[1:15:37] exhibit A? Just a little.
[1:15:45] He's been down to the house. He had the
[1:15:48] crazy suggestion to build it on the
[1:15:49] other side. And I told him he's crazy.
[1:15:52] It won't work on the other side.
[1:15:54] >> You say there'd be more room on the
[1:15:55] other side, but that slope would be a
[1:15:56] bugger.
[1:15:57] >> That slope would be
[1:16:00] >> Excuse me. It would not I wouldn't even
[1:16:02] >> I didn't I didn't send it to you. I'll
[1:16:04] let you
[1:16:05] >> I was just asking him about it.
[1:16:09] >> What's your number?
[1:16:11] >> Sorry, it took so long. No,
[1:16:16] » 1279.
[1:16:18] And
[1:16:19] >> that's that's very
[1:16:24] » Thank you. Might need your advice.
[1:16:26] >> Um
[1:16:28] good.
[1:16:29] >> Thank you.
[1:16:29] >> Okay.
[1:16:32] >> Thank you very much.
[1:16:33] >> Yeah. Good to meet you. Good luck to
[1:16:34] you.
[1:16:36] >> Have a good day. Good to see you.
[1:16:38] >> Yeah. Good to meet you. Take care.
[1:16:43] » Okay.
[1:16:45] The record should show and I'm assuming
[1:16:47] that the record is still going that the
[1:16:50] Briggs matter has been resolved and then
[1:16:53] I will present a order.
[1:16:55] >> Okay.
[1:16:56] >> For that to the city um
[1:17:02] you've had counsel before that I had
[1:17:04] submitted it to. Do I need to you?
[1:17:06] >> No, you can submit it back to Jody.
[1:17:08] >> Back to Jody just for review.
[1:17:10] >> Okay.
[1:17:13] The next the record should show
[1:17:15] that the next matter is going to be held
[1:17:17] as required by notice that has been set
[1:17:20] for this day. It is an application by
[1:17:24] Aaron Lloyd
[1:17:27] regarding a property at
[1:17:32] course
[1:17:34] at 105 Bridger Circle.
[1:17:37] Um
[1:17:39] and Mr. Mr. Mr. Lloyd is here and is
[1:17:42] present as the application and Mr. Wayne
[1:17:45] Franson is here on behalf of the city.
[1:17:47] Um, you've been here, Mr. Lloyd, so
[1:17:49] you've seen how we've done it before and
[1:17:51] so we will ask Mr. Franson to give us
[1:17:54] kind of the city's position on what's
[1:17:58] happening with the hill and or your
[1:18:00] property. Can either one of you,
[1:18:04] since the order that I will be drafting
[1:18:06] has to be recorded or will be end up
[1:18:08] being recorded, do you know the lot
[1:18:11] number and what subdivision that your
[1:18:13] property is besides its um
[1:18:17] address?
[1:18:18] >> It's lot 53.
[1:18:20] I don't know the name of the subdivision
[1:18:22] up here.
[1:18:23] >> Do you know the plant?
[1:18:24] >> Um I don't know the plant name either.
[1:18:26] It's a Thousand Oaks. When will you give
[1:18:28] me will you give me the law or the legal
[1:18:30] descriptions for both of the properties?
[1:18:32] >> Okay.
[1:18:34] >> As per the serial number that legal
[1:18:36] description.
[1:18:38] >> Yes. The parcel number that I'll have.
[1:18:40] Yeah. Parcel number or the usually it's
[1:18:43] lot five of a certain certain
[1:18:44] subdivision with a parcel number.
[1:18:46] >> Okay.
[1:18:56] And the record should reflect as I have
[1:18:58] indicated that I have driven by the
[1:19:01] property this morning. I was not with
[1:19:03] anyone else but just visually went to
[1:19:06] see it so that I was more familiar with
[1:19:09] the sighting of the property.
[1:19:13] Okay, Mr. Francen.
[1:19:16] Okay, a little bit of background to uh
[1:19:20] help you put this in perspective, too.
[1:19:23] Um, when Mr. Lloyd built his home, there
[1:19:28] were a number of issues that he was
[1:19:30] faced with. Uh, one was the slope of his
[1:19:34] driveway.
[1:19:37] And in addition to the two issues that
[1:19:41] uh um he's requesting a variance on
[1:19:45] uh the the setback for the driveway from
[1:19:50] the property line and the um sizing of
[1:19:55] the water culvert that runs under the
[1:19:59] driveway.
[1:20:01] Um,
[1:20:02] when it came time for him to get, and
[1:20:06] you can correct me when if I mispake
[1:20:08] here, the time to get the the occupancy
[1:20:12] permit,
[1:20:14] uh, a check of the driveway showed that
[1:20:17] we exceeded the the slope limit per our
[1:20:21] city ordinance. Our ordinance allows the
[1:20:26] city council
[1:20:28] to give a variance on the driveway slope
[1:20:34] and he went to the city council and they
[1:20:37] gave a variance to him
[1:20:41] >> on the driveway slope.
[1:20:43] >> So the variance So the slope exceeds
[1:20:47] >> 15%.
[1:20:49] >> So did he change the slope? Don't. They
[1:20:52] gave him a variance to leave the slope
[1:20:55] as it was with there was a condition
[1:20:58] there that he do some back stopping
[1:21:02] along portions of the driveway.
[1:21:05] Um putting mini
[1:21:09] what do we call those?
[1:21:10] >> Those are the barriers that I saw at the
[1:21:12] barriers.
[1:21:13] >> They're directly and
[1:21:16] >> parallel to the entrance to the garages.
[1:21:19] They're back,
[1:21:20] >> but but the variance was only for the
[1:21:22] top of the driveway between because we
[1:21:25] have a lower garage and an upper garage.
[1:21:28] >> The variance was only to the upper
[1:21:30] section.
[1:21:31] >> Yeah, cuz he he complied on the bottom
[1:21:33] one,
[1:21:33] >> but the back I only saw one driveway or
[1:21:37] >> there's only one driveway, but as you go
[1:21:39] up, you see one garage from the front,
[1:21:41] but if you keep going, there's a garage
[1:21:43] on the side stacked on top of each
[1:21:45] other.
[1:21:46] >> Okay. So, I didn't see that. So, but the
[1:21:48] extension into the setback I is what I
[1:21:51] saw with where it's been graded up and
[1:21:55] um grades been changed and increased
[1:21:57] with the the retaining wall system
[1:21:59] >> that was required by the city council
[1:22:03] and the varian
[1:22:04] >> as part of this as part of the slope.
[1:22:07] >> Yes.
[1:22:08] >> Yep. But the variance was only granted
[1:22:12] if the lower half of the garage or lower
[1:22:14] half of the driveway could meet
[1:22:16] >> could comply so that fire like in the in
[1:22:21] the case of an ambulance it could get up
[1:22:23] to the lower garage in the case of
[1:22:26] emergency. Okay. So, as I understand it,
[1:22:29] you're saying from your street level,
[1:22:31] the driveway going up to where you turn
[1:22:34] on on that part where you have the
[1:22:37] retaining wall back in um
[1:22:42] that that does that complies and that's
[1:22:44] under 15% or that meets the 15%.
[1:22:47] >> The bottom half does. Yes.
[1:22:49] >> From the that from the most most north
[1:22:52] garage
[1:22:54] >> closest to the street.
[1:22:55] >> Yep. Correct. and your variance only
[1:22:57] dealt with the back portion
[1:22:59] >> correct that.
[1:23:00] >> So I say that as background because it
[1:23:03] affects his variance now that he's
[1:23:06] requesting for the setback from the
[1:23:09] property line.
[1:23:10] >> So to do that you had to go elongate the
[1:23:13] driveway to get around.
[1:23:14] >> In that right
[1:23:15] >> that's exactly right. when we we tried
[1:23:18] to hit the less than 15% on the lower
[1:23:20] half and could not do it without going
[1:23:24] into that offset
[1:23:28] area that wasn't wasn't allowed. So to
[1:23:31] get the lower half under 15% we had to
[1:23:34] elongate the driveway into that zone.
[1:23:40] » So that's that's what was done. It was
[1:23:43] done without city approval, but
[1:23:47] >> the whole thing was constructed as is.
[1:23:50] Now, when you caught it, was the lower
[1:23:53] driveway already constructed?
[1:23:55] >> Yes.
[1:23:55] >> No.
[1:23:57] >> When when the kind when the time came
[1:23:59] for your
[1:24:01] occupancy permit?
[1:24:02] >> Yeah. And it when you caught it, I mean
[1:24:04] >> when I caught it was still road base,
[1:24:07] but then because of the winter, I
[1:24:08] hurried and asphalt it so that it could
[1:24:10] be cleared cuz it couldn't be cleared as
[1:24:14] it was.
[1:24:16] >> So I did asphalt it without permission.
[1:24:19] >> Okay.
[1:24:19] >> Without the approval. No.
[1:24:21] >> So without the grades being approved.
[1:24:23] >> Yeah.
[1:24:25] >> Okay. The grade
[1:24:28] was reviewed before it was asphalted but
[1:24:32] not approved because of this issue with
[1:24:35] the two angles. Yes.
[1:24:41] » So
[1:24:43] um he had to extend the driveway out.
[1:24:46] >> So did you So did you recontour then?
[1:24:50] >> I recontoured before the asphalt. So I
[1:24:53] met with the city twice. Chris on site.
[1:24:56] I think it was Chris.
[1:24:58] And because he was tr we the city's been
[1:25:01] very he's the city's been so good to
[1:25:04] work with. And so Chris came out and
[1:25:06] said, "Let me see what I can do to help
[1:25:08] you get within your 15%."
[1:25:11] And looking at it, reviewing it with me,
[1:25:13] he's like, "There's nothing you can do
[1:25:16] to hit your 15% unless you elongate the
[1:25:19] driveway.
[1:25:25] Okay.
[1:25:26] >> So, he took the driveway further to the
[1:25:29] left. I just use that instead of north,
[1:25:32] south, east, west. As you're facing the
[1:25:34] house,
[1:25:35] >> the west.
[1:25:36] >> Okay.
[1:25:37] >> No, it's to the east.
[1:25:40] >> Closer. I went further to the east.
[1:25:42] >> Mine turned around. Maybe I am turned
[1:25:45] facing.
[1:25:46] >> But it is to the left if you're looking
[1:25:48] from the street. It's to the west. to
[1:25:52] the left.
[1:25:53] >> East to the left.
[1:25:54] >> That's that's the that's the side that
[1:25:57] is of issue. Okay.
[1:25:59] >> The normal setback is 20 ft a driveway
[1:26:01] from the property line
[1:26:03] >> and it goes how far in?
[1:26:06] >> It goes to like 11 ft
[1:26:09] >> 10 ft or so from the property line.
[1:26:12] >> Yep. Because as I saw the the driveway
[1:26:16] going up, there's a big retaining wall
[1:26:18] where I mean where you build up the um
[1:26:21] the side and I assume the property line
[1:26:24] is somewhere on the other side of that
[1:26:27] closer to the other house.
[1:26:28] >> Yeah, it's way off of that cuz the lot
[1:26:30] comes in at an angle.
[1:26:32] >> Okay.
[1:26:32] >> So where that retaining wall is and then
[1:26:34] it starts to curve.
[1:26:37] It's I can show you on this if you'd
[1:26:39] like.
[1:26:39] >> Okay. Yeah, that would be this looks
[1:26:41] like a relatively what I'm looking at is
[1:26:45] the um site plan that was marked.
[1:26:50] >> Okay, that's the proposed
[1:26:52] >> this was the proposed.
[1:26:53] >> So the retaining walls that you saw were
[1:26:56] right there. So this comes in at an
[1:26:59] angle.
[1:27:00] So this is Wait, let me turn it how
[1:27:05] Okay, here's the house.
[1:27:07] Okay.
[1:27:08] >> Yeah. Okay.
[1:27:10] And so which way is north?
[1:27:12] >> This way.
[1:27:13] >> Okay.
[1:27:16] So when I was talking west here,
[1:27:18] this is the retaining wall.
[1:27:19] >> Retaining wall. Okay. I thought you were
[1:27:20] talking those retaining walls.
[1:27:22] >> No, I'm talking about this retaining
[1:27:23] wall that is very Yes.
[1:27:25] >> That stands out.
[1:27:27] >> Yeah. This is This has your 20 ft
[1:27:29] needed.
[1:27:31] It's this corner right here that we
[1:27:34] changed from. Here's the original
[1:27:38] that it came. We had our 20 ft here.
[1:27:44] » So from this point to that point, but
[1:27:47] now we've elongated the bottom of the
[1:27:49] driveway that way to hit our 20 our less
[1:27:52] than 15% here.
[1:27:53] >> Okay. That elongated. I gotten you. And
[1:27:56] this one doesn't show, but there's a
[1:27:58] Didn't I see a trailer pad with a
[1:28:00] trailer back?
[1:28:01] >> Yeah. Little
[1:28:02] >> behind the utility trailer up here.
[1:28:03] >> Yeah.
[1:28:04] >> Yep.
[1:28:04] >> Okay. But you're saying there's an Will
[1:28:07] you show me on the site plan where the
[1:28:10] second
[1:28:11] >> Yes.
[1:28:11] >> one is.
[1:28:13] >> So this is their garages are stacked on
[1:28:15] top of each other. So the lower garage
[1:28:17] you enter from down here
[1:28:20] and then the upper garage you keep
[1:28:21] driving and you enter on top on the side
[1:28:23] here.
[1:28:24] >> Okay. I didn't.
[1:28:25] >> So the variance that the city council
[1:28:28] gave me was from here to here that
[1:28:31] because we just don't have the distance
[1:28:33] to get the grade needed. So the variance
[1:28:37] was issued for that area and we put the guard rails up for this curve that
[1:28:42] they were concerned about.
[1:28:43] >> So that on this plan the original that ch this is the guardrail you put
[1:28:49] up, isn't it? Yep.
[1:28:50] >> So this is the guard rail. So this is
[1:28:52] the portion where
[1:28:55] >> yeah from here down because they could
[1:28:58] drive an ambulance up and into this
[1:29:00] lower section and then go up the stairs
[1:29:03] to the front door
[1:29:03] >> and that's where the bottom garage is.
[1:29:05] >> And your variance was the slope right
[1:29:07] through there.
[1:29:08] >> Yep. From Yeah. that corner.
[1:29:11] >> Okay. And then you get great
[1:29:14] >> and then here you're fine again. It's
[1:29:15] just from literally right there to right
[1:29:18] there.
[1:29:19] And even with the elongation, but you
[1:29:22] were given that variance and then the
[1:29:23] elongation just made
[1:29:25] >> the elongation helped down here, but it
[1:29:28] didn't help here cuz here's your pinch.
[1:29:31] to get your 15% here. It actually had to
[1:29:33] make this steeper
[1:29:35] because I couldn't elongate this whole
[1:29:37] thing out
[1:29:50] question. Um,
[1:29:54] obviously Mr. Lloyd, you're you're
[1:29:59] an inexperienced builder.
[1:30:01] >> Yeah.
[1:30:02] >> What happened with your grades being off
[1:30:04] so far?
[1:30:06] >> Um I sat down with this city originally
[1:30:09] and we thought we were all concerned
[1:30:10] about it. Um and we thought we barely
[1:30:14] had the room to hit the needed 15%.
[1:30:20] Um I had two different meetings in here
[1:30:22] with
[1:30:25] >> Corbett. Corbett and he we both agreed
[1:30:29] that it was super close, but we thought
[1:30:31] we could do it. And then the house was
[1:30:34] placed as drawn and it just didn't work
[1:30:37] out like the math and the drawing said
[1:30:42] it could.
[1:30:43] So, hindsight, I wish we would have
[1:30:46] moved the house down, but it's super
[1:30:50] tricky because your narrowest portion is
[1:30:52] at the front of the lot where your
[1:30:55] driveway has to go.
[1:30:57] >> So, I don't know if there's any way cuz
[1:30:59] I've thought this through in my head a
[1:31:01] thousand times. What if I pulled the
[1:31:02] house back? What if I move the house
[1:31:04] forward? But the problem is it's the
[1:31:07] grade at the front. So, I don't know
[1:31:08] that in any case it actually fixed it
[1:31:11] cuz it you I don't know how you could
[1:31:15] have done it and hit the the 15% but
[1:31:18] that's
[1:31:19] >> other than putting the house bearing it
[1:31:22] >> at the at the very bottom. I guess you
[1:31:25] could would have been the only
[1:31:27] >> taking it straight in but then you've
[1:31:29] got that other part right there. So, the
[1:31:32] >> it's super steep at the front. So, I
[1:31:34] don't know. And it gets I I don't It
[1:31:38] doesn't It flattens off a little bit at
[1:31:40] the back, but not much.
[1:31:44] It's just a really steep lot that's
[1:31:45] narrow.
[1:31:48] And the math said it worked originally
[1:31:50] and it didn't.
[1:31:53] It was we thought it, you know, from
[1:31:55] that point on.
[1:31:58] >> Um
[1:32:05] in the comparison there are these dots.
[1:32:11] I'm assuming that they're dealing with
[1:32:12] the retaining wells.
[1:32:14] >> Yes.
[1:32:16] >> There those didn't change. Is that
[1:32:18] right?
[1:32:18] >> Correct. That did not change.
[1:32:20] >> That did not change.
[1:32:20] >> No. So in comparing the original that
[1:32:24] you were permitted with with what the
[1:32:27] asbuilt
[1:32:29] um
[1:32:30] the only difference then is that as
[1:32:34] was dealing with this steepness in the
[1:32:36] variation right in this in the corner
[1:32:38] right by that would be the north
[1:32:41] west side of your house.
[1:32:43] >> Yep.
[1:32:46] It
[1:32:46] >> was just that part. It's
[1:32:48] >> that part. Okay.
[1:32:55] But
[1:32:57] >> if we wouldn't have elongated it here,
[1:33:00] then we wouldn't have hit our 15% here
[1:33:03] either because you didn't have enough
[1:33:04] room.
[1:33:07] >> Well, even if you um the lot the lot is
[1:33:11] not a traditional well a rectangle. It's
[1:33:15] >> correct.
[1:33:15] >> A little bit
[1:33:16] >> pie shaped a little bit of a pie because
[1:33:18] it's a The circle
[1:33:20] >> is is a little bit wider
[1:33:23] >> in the back, but not a great deal. What?
[1:33:25] Maybe 10 ft difference or less.
[1:33:28] >> Well, with the ankle, I actually think
[1:33:29] it's like 50 ft or
[1:33:31] >> No, I mean from here to here.
[1:33:32] >> Oh,
[1:33:33] >> that if you can that
[1:33:35] >> Yeah, that's 20 ft from there to there.
[1:33:37] So, yeah, maybe
[1:33:39] 15 10 to 15t.
[1:33:42] >> Yeah. So, it's it's
[1:33:43] >> in like the extreme end maybe 20. And
[1:33:48] >> how how how wide is your lot? Okay. Can
[1:33:52] you tell? I can
[1:33:55] >> see if you guys can see it.
[1:33:58] >> Your eyes may be better.
[1:33:59] >> 124 ft.96.
[1:34:03] » Yep. And it's 139 ft at the back.
[1:34:07] >> Okay. So, it picks up 50.
[1:34:08] >> Yep.
[1:34:09] >> In width. It's getting there. One side
[1:34:12] or the other. And the other side looks
[1:34:13] like it
[1:34:15] is just as steep or was
[1:34:17] >> Yeah, the whole lot is just super steep.
[1:34:21] >> Now are these changes in the grade that
[1:34:23] change your these are the afterbuilt
[1:34:26] >> not the original grades, right?
[1:34:28] >> This is okay.
[1:34:29] >> Yep. The original grades are pretty I
[1:34:32] mean through here this is all we haven't
[1:34:34] touched any of this.
[1:34:36] had to be brought up. This is more
[1:34:40] flat originally, but had to be built up
[1:34:43] like 7 8 ft there for the driveway. But
[1:34:46] this is stayed all natural. That's the
[1:34:48] existing trees
[1:34:49] >> cuz it looks like it was maybe 10 ft up
[1:34:51] above. I mean, your proper at the where that wall ends.
[1:34:57] >> It looks like it's up maybe
[1:35:00] >> it's two layers of four. So 8 ft high.
[1:35:02] >> 8 ft. 8 ft high. That sits at
[1:35:05] >> correct.
[1:35:06] >> Okay.
[1:35:08] Um I
[1:35:11] Okay, tell me about the covert.
[1:35:13] >> Okay, so the covert we have utility
[1:35:17] running right through right in the
[1:35:19] middle of the ditch down here is for the
[1:35:23] um fiber cable. It's actually in the
[1:35:26] ditch. Um
[1:35:27] >> the ditch the ditch right in front of
[1:35:29] your property
[1:35:32] that I saw.
[1:35:33] >> Correct. It's
[1:35:34] >> is not ditched. It was had stuff in it,
[1:35:37] but it was more of a ditch to the east.
[1:35:42] >> Yeah. There's a section here, but this
[1:35:44] is cover from like right here to right
[1:35:46] here.
[1:35:46] >> Okay.
[1:35:47] >> And then it turns into a ditch the rest
[1:35:48] of
[1:35:49] >> it. Goes back into some of it under
[1:35:51] snow.
[1:35:51] >> Correct. And this section right over
[1:35:53] here, there's a box for the fiber cable
[1:35:56] that runs into the culde-sac that's
[1:35:58] super shallow.
[1:36:00] So when we were going to place that
[1:36:02] covert, we were right over top of that
[1:36:04] fiber line. And so me being I I mean I
[1:36:09] should have stopped at that point,
[1:36:11] right? But um and and I I take
[1:36:15] accountability and if I have to rip it
[1:36:17] out, it's it's on me. But at the same
[1:36:20] time, I don't I don't want to cut into
[1:36:22] that fiber utility because I have to pay
[1:36:25] for it if I cut into it, right? because
[1:36:28] Blue Stake has been out there and marked
[1:36:29] it and is right where I'm digging. And
[1:36:32] so
[1:36:34] this fiber line runs underneath there
[1:36:36] and I'm at the back of the culde-sac and
[1:36:38] I'm doing the math. I'm like, "Oh, I can
[1:36:40] get a 12 in."
[1:36:43] >> Yeah, but you said you were going to put
[1:36:45] a 15 in.
[1:36:46] >> Correct. So, I had to go 3 in smaller in
[1:36:48] order to not hit that fiber line.
[1:36:50] >> Except my understanding is you went from
[1:36:52] a 15 to a 10, not a 12. We went out and
[1:36:55] measured it and he said it was a 10.
[1:36:58] >> It is a 10 and 12 on the outside, 10 on
[1:37:01] the inside.
[1:37:01] >> Okay, let me let me just follow up.
[1:37:03] Wayne is my from reading the culvert was
[1:37:09] not only not the 15, but it was not the
[1:37:13] minimum 12 that would be required.
[1:37:15] >> That's what Ted indicated.
[1:37:17] >> Is that that's my understanding? Okay.
[1:37:20] We had drawn a 15 originally.
[1:37:24] The the code does allow us to have a 12.
[1:37:27] >> Okay. And you got 10.
[1:37:28] >> And we had we I did a 10.
[1:37:31] >> Yep.
[1:37:33] >> And you're saying you did the 10 to
[1:37:34] preserve the fiber optic.
[1:37:36] >> Correct.
[1:37:37] and in and and this is can be in my
[1:37:41] wrong thinking, but sitting at the back
[1:37:44] of the culde-sac and talking with my
[1:37:47] neighbors, there's no water ever in the
[1:37:49] ditch. In fact, if you look at the
[1:37:52] ditches around my house, they're not
[1:37:53] even ditches. In fact, talking to the
[1:37:55] Urkin Bracks that are right across the
[1:37:57] street,
[1:37:58] there is literally no ditch
[1:38:01] around. Like we reshaped the ditches
[1:38:04] around my house, but if you look at the
[1:38:08] rest of the area that there are no
[1:38:09] ditches there and there's no water that
[1:38:11] runs there cuz we're at the top of the
[1:38:13] culde-sac. Now, as you get down on these
[1:38:15] roads, these ditches, I notice there's
[1:38:18] always water in them in a rainstorm
[1:38:20] because it's collecting water from the
[1:38:22] streets around, but I'm at the top of
[1:38:24] the culde-sac and there is nothing ever
[1:38:27] there. And I cleaned mine out last week
[1:38:30] and there were some leaves that had
[1:38:31] gathered and the snow plows hit this
[1:38:34] corner and they drug all the dirt and
[1:38:37] rock when they cleared the snow the four
[1:38:39] times we had to clear snow this year and
[1:38:41] buried this ditch again. And last
[1:38:43] weekend I dug it back out cuz I wanted
[1:38:45] to have it looking nice for you to look
[1:38:47] at to kind of see.
[1:38:48] >> We knew I'd come
[1:38:49] >> right and we didn't anticipate the snow
[1:38:52] that we still need. So it is what it is.
[1:38:54] But in my mind, I'm like, "Okay, there's
[1:38:57] no water that runs in this ditch, but
[1:39:01] let's get as big of a covert as I can."
[1:39:03] And that's where my failure is, right?
[1:39:05] Is and I I understand it's my failure.
[1:39:09] So,
[1:39:11] >> and let me tell you, I just came from
[1:39:13] the Northshore and Kawaii,
[1:39:15] >> okay?
[1:39:16] >> I haven't I don't go there frequently,
[1:39:19] but I was there 5 years ago. I saw
[1:39:21] streams and ditches that I had never
[1:39:24] noticed before because they're
[1:39:25] overflowing.
[1:39:26] >> Yes.
[1:39:26] >> Because of this unusual rain.
[1:39:28] >> Yeah.
[1:39:29] >> And obviously your drainage is the
[1:39:33] general plan for the drainage is a
[1:39:35] minimum of 12.
[1:39:36] >> Yes. I have a tough time
[1:39:39] dealing with that even because you're on
[1:39:43] a steep lot which means that the
[1:39:45] property you know storm water and drain
[1:39:48] with that going on is going to come down
[1:39:50] steeper.
[1:39:52] >> It doesn't collect there though.
[1:39:54] >> Well, you're in a drought. We've been in
[1:39:57] unusual drought and I just
[1:40:00] >> I totally get your point. Could there be
[1:40:02] a series of storms that
[1:40:06] do
[1:40:08] that could require that? I guess there
[1:40:10] could in talking to my neighbors, they
[1:40:12] haven't seen it in the 20 years,
[1:40:14] >> right? And but I totally get there
[1:40:16] that's only 20 years. Yes.
[1:40:18] >> Right. Um, I would say the math if my
[1:40:22] neighbors at the bottom of the culde-sac
[1:40:24] that are four houses down that are
[1:40:26] collecting water from eight properties,
[1:40:29] if their minimum is a 12-in cover, that
[1:40:33] the math would say the me at the very
[1:40:35] top, the minimum should not be the same
[1:40:38] because I'm only collecting water from
[1:40:41] two lots, not all the culde-sac. And the
[1:40:44] 12-in minimum is the entire culde-sac.
[1:40:48] But I totally understand and I'm not
[1:40:50] going to die on that hill. If I have to
[1:40:52] tear up the bottom to make people happy,
[1:40:55] then I will tear it up. I don't think
[1:40:57] it's needed and I might hit the
[1:41:00] utilities, which will cost me a lot of
[1:41:02] money to hit utilities I don't want to
[1:41:05] hit, but I plan on living the rest of my
[1:41:08] life in Woodland Hills, and I'm not
[1:41:09] going to die on the hill of a 12-in
[1:41:11] covert versus a 10- in. You know, Wayne
[1:41:14] is a neighbor of mine. I care about the
[1:41:16] people I live by, too. And that's why I
[1:41:19] did talk to neighbors and
[1:41:22] >> ask people that had lived here longer
[1:41:24] than me. But I totally get your side. I understand it.
[1:41:33] I mean that I I haven't I mean your
[1:41:37] property
[1:41:39] where the where the culvert is there's
[1:41:41] nothing unusual going around with with
[1:41:44] where the culvert is. You're just saying
[1:41:46] that the culvert was came was came after
[1:41:49] the fiber.
[1:41:50] >> Um
[1:41:51] >> yeah. So the fiber runs right underneath
[1:41:55] that area. Well, that's the ement where
[1:41:57] it's supposed to be, right? Is is
[1:41:59] >> Well, we
[1:42:01] we've had some issues with this Comcast
[1:42:04] who came around and was doing
[1:42:07] >> um
[1:42:09] >> the fiber And is that the one you're
[1:42:13] talking about, Aaron, or are you talking
[1:42:15] about Utopia when they
[1:42:16] >> I think it was Utopia
[1:42:17] >> where they buried their first ones.
[1:42:20] >> Comcast came through last fall and dug
[1:42:23] and drilled. Comcast has not buried
[1:42:25] their cable the way they should have.
[1:42:27] They're they're
[1:42:28] >> But that's not this cable.
[1:42:29] >> No, but I wasn't sure.
[1:42:31] >> They drilled that after this cover was
[1:42:33] put in. They drilled it last fall. Okay.
[1:42:35] >> I don't know where that is cuz they just
[1:42:37] they drilled it after it was done.
[1:42:39] >> They a lot of places didn't go deep
[1:42:41] enough.
[1:42:42] >> Utopia wasn't deep either.
[1:42:44] >> And so the Utopia was one cable that was
[1:42:47] laid probably 10 years ago or or so. But
[1:42:51] you're connecting into a a ditch that's
[1:42:55] been there longer, right?
[1:42:58] >> Um, no. I had to create that ditch when
[1:43:00] we moved in.
[1:43:02] >> When the when the streets are made,
[1:43:05] doesn't
[1:43:06] >> Yes. And this is what happens often
[1:43:09] times with time. Those ditches
[1:43:13] deteriorate.
[1:43:14] the um people often times are pulling
[1:43:18] off to the side of the road and destroy
[1:43:21] the ditches. So, it's not unusual for a
[1:43:25] homeowner or a new homeowner to come and find a ditch is really not a ditch
[1:43:34] in front of their home. It's been it's
[1:43:36] just because it's wear and tear and
[1:43:39] deteriorated snow plows uh pushing snow
[1:43:42] into it and sometimes
[1:43:45] um not destroying the ditch but but
[1:43:48] making it uh disrepair and so forth.
[1:43:53] >> So in Woodland Hills it's the
[1:43:55] responsibility of the property owner to
[1:43:58] maintain the ditch.
[1:43:59] >> It is okay.
[1:44:02] Unless the city is the one doing the
[1:44:04] damage to it, then
[1:44:06] >> the city will
[1:44:07] >> or whoever is working in the ditch or
[1:44:08] using these.
[1:44:09] >> Yeah.
[1:44:10] >> And I when I did the ditch,
[1:44:13] um I mean it the ditch has to go around
[1:44:16] that box, that utility box, and I dug to
[1:44:19] the bottom of the utility box. I dug it
[1:44:21] as deep as I could to, you know, make it
[1:44:24] a good ditch. But it is as deep as it
[1:44:27] can go. And it does comply with a 12
[1:44:29] inch deep
[1:44:31] needed ditch in that area. But
[1:44:34] >> no, you're that's not what I understand.
[1:44:38] >> I'm not sure of the deepness of the
[1:44:40] ditches. I I can't remember what the
[1:44:43] should be.
[1:44:46] >> It's it's a critical thing to me. So you
[1:44:49] proposed a 15-in ditch mean.
[1:44:54] >> You didn't build that. The ordinance
[1:44:56] would have required a 12 inch.
[1:44:59] Still requires a 12 inch.
[1:45:01] >> Correct.
[1:45:02] >> And you put in a 10 inch.
[1:45:04] >> Correct.
[1:45:05] >> But we we would have
[1:45:08] required the 15 inch, but the site plan
[1:45:11] showed
[1:45:12] even though our ordinance said 12
[1:45:15] because
[1:45:15] >> we have looked at that as a a change.
[1:45:19] And it's very likely that if Aaron
[1:45:24] contacted the city and asked him about
[1:45:26] that, we would have told him a 15-in
[1:45:28] culvert goes there. And that may have
[1:45:30] been why he put then on the site plan a
[1:45:34] 15 in.
[1:45:35] >> You're saying it's good and that's what
[1:45:36] the city was happy with. The 15-in.
[1:45:39] >> Yes. Yep. Correct. I
[1:45:40] >> I I understand that it was it may not
[1:45:42] have been more it may was maybe more
[1:45:44] than minimum, but still appropriate for
[1:45:47] collecting the water off of the site.
[1:45:49] question I have is he's just said that
[1:45:52] he put the 10 inch down where the 12
[1:45:55] inch
[1:45:57] >> the 10 in is 12 in.
[1:46:01] >> 12 is 14 or something.
[1:46:03] >> Uh 12 is 14. It it gets to a point where
[1:46:07] it's the get thicker but yeah.
[1:46:09] >> Okay.
[1:46:10] >> Correct. So
[1:46:12] the only because
[1:46:15] going there and looking at it, it
[1:46:17] appears that there weren't there should
[1:46:19] be no problems with him strictly
[1:46:21] complying
[1:46:23] by putting it in.
[1:46:24] >> If he'd have put a 12 1/2 in cover in
[1:46:26] there, we wouldn't be here today on that
[1:46:29] matter because that's what the
[1:46:32] >> the code would require. color require
[1:46:36] >> and and I did not to tell you how tight
[1:46:39] everything was. I actually did not get
[1:46:43] any subgrade underneath my asphalt at
[1:46:47] the cover. The asphalt is sitting right
[1:46:49] on the covert in that small section the
[1:46:53] top of the circle because I couldn't go
[1:46:56] any further. Like there is no you should
[1:46:59] have like four inches of rope bas or 4
[1:47:02] inch over.
[1:47:02] >> I could not even do that. So I have a
[1:47:05] problem where at some point it's
[1:47:06] probably the asphalt's going to crack
[1:47:08] but I could not even get because
[1:47:11] the driveway the base of the driveway
[1:47:14] you can't be 15%.
[1:47:16] It has to there's a section there where
[1:47:18] it has to be lower so the snow plows
[1:47:21] don't hit it. And so it has to be lower
[1:47:25] and so I could not go any higher and and
[1:47:31] I would be out of compliance on the
[1:47:32] angle of the driveway. So I had to hit
[1:47:34] that I think it's 7% in the first 10 ft
[1:47:37] or something like that.
[1:47:38] >> Yeah. You hit it.
[1:47:39] >> I hit it. But what required to hit it
[1:47:42] was a 10-in cover and sitting right the
[1:47:46] asphalt sitting on the cover
[1:47:49] because of that fiber line that runs
[1:47:51] underneath it is so shallow.
[1:47:54] >> There is something
[1:47:54] >> that's the only reason why I couldn't
[1:47:56] hit it is cuz that fiber line and if I
[1:47:58] would have hit the fiber line, cut the
[1:48:00] fiber line, yes, I could have hit it.
[1:48:03] But then I'm in now I'm paying Utopia
[1:48:07] thousands of dollars because I hid their
[1:48:09] >> Why is the fiber line
[1:48:12] where the cover ought to be?
[1:48:15] >> Cuz they're both in the same ement.
[1:48:19] » I don't know.
[1:48:21] >> Shouldn't be right.
[1:48:22] >> No, it shouldn't. Where should the where
[1:48:24] should the
[1:48:25] >> should be off to the side still in the
[1:48:27] right ofway the fiber line but it it
[1:48:31] shouldn't be in an area where a ditch is designated
[1:48:37] to be
[1:48:41] » I wonder we have
[1:48:44] the fiber companies come in and kind of
[1:48:46] do what they please.
[1:48:48] Uh
[1:48:49] >> that should create more work for you.
[1:48:50] >> It does.
[1:48:52] And they and they pay you for it.
[1:48:55] >> Uh yeah,
[1:48:57] >> they do.
[1:48:58] >> Yeah.
[1:48:59] >> So, um is that is it in a pro? But is
[1:49:04] that going to be the case?
[1:49:06] The problem that's going to be created
[1:49:08] as I see it and from hearing Aaron is if
[1:49:13] he takes that out and puts a 15 in or
[1:49:16] even a 12 1/2 inch culver
[1:49:19] then
[1:49:21] he's going to he's not going to be able
[1:49:24] to meet that um that 7% if that's what
[1:49:28] it is and it's somewhere in that area of
[1:49:32] downs slope to prevent and snow plows
[1:49:37] from
[1:49:40] hitting that and it'll even it'll make
[1:49:43] it worse.
[1:49:47] » So,
[1:49:49] if he complies,
[1:49:52] he's got to remove the fiber optics that
[1:49:55] are in the wrong place.
[1:49:59] Well, we'd have to have a fiber company
[1:50:01] come out and probably do that because it
[1:50:04] they'll probably need to be cut and
[1:50:06] moved
[1:50:08] and that takes expertise to do that.
[1:50:11] >> But
[1:50:12] >> because there's not enough give in that
[1:50:14] line.
[1:50:14] >> I know. Okay. But let me ask Okay, let
[1:50:17] me go through that scenario. You're
[1:50:19] saying the property the problem was
[1:50:21] called caused by the fiber octave lines
[1:50:24] being in the wrong place.
[1:50:28] the city could require the fiber optics
[1:50:31] to come in and to move it and to get it
[1:50:33] in the right place. Correct.
[1:50:37] >> You'd think yes.
[1:50:42] Sometimes they're not very cooperative.
[1:50:44] >> Well,
[1:50:46] >> but yes, they didn't do what they were
[1:50:48] supposed to do.
[1:50:49] >> So, it seems to me that you create two
[1:50:51] problems and he's kind of in the middle
[1:50:52] of a rock and a hard spot. You either
[1:50:54] solve your drainage problem by having a
[1:50:57] culvert that's required in the code,
[1:51:00] which he said he was going to do and
[1:51:02] which he didn't do because of the
[1:51:04] problem caused by the fiber optics. So
[1:51:06] you got a 10-in line up there for a
[1:51:08] drain surface drainage that feed that
[1:51:11] should be 12
[1:51:14] and he can't put in the 12 without the
[1:51:17] fiber optic coming out. Is that fair
[1:51:21] analysis?
[1:51:23] So, either you screw your drainage or
[1:51:24] you screw your street.
[1:51:28] >> What's
[1:51:28] >> And now we have the new I don't know. I
[1:51:32] do know that they drilled underneath and
[1:51:35] ran the new line
[1:51:37] >> underneath the culvert.
[1:51:38] >> Well, but I don't know how far they ran
[1:51:40] it underneath it.
[1:51:41] >> Did they go underneath the cover or just
[1:51:43] So, you're saying the culver is the
[1:51:45] surface paving is just right on top of
[1:51:47] the cover.
[1:51:48] >> So, they had to go down.
[1:51:50] >> They had to go down. I don't know how
[1:51:52] far they went down. The new company that
[1:51:53] came in last fall.
[1:51:54] >> That's Comcast.
[1:51:55] >> Comcast. So, I don't know where that is.
[1:51:57] But that's underneath there now as well
[1:52:01] cuz they go in that same area. I wish I
[1:52:04] had a picture of that. But
[1:52:06] >> why aren't they in the same line? Cuz
[1:52:08] they don't have to be, right? I guess
[1:52:10] >> they're different companies.
[1:52:11] >> Well, I know they're different
[1:52:12] companies, but
[1:52:13] >> yeah, they do their own. Yeah, they I
[1:52:16] mean it's one fiber,
[1:52:16] >> but they have But your problem
[1:52:20] seems to me is that in order to get your
[1:52:23] drainage, you've got to He can't solve
[1:52:26] the problem with the fiber optics. City
[1:52:29] can
[1:52:30] by requiring them if they're in the
[1:52:31] wrong place.
[1:52:37] So
[1:52:39] which which hazard is more
[1:52:44] or it seems to me that the surface
[1:52:46] drainage is almost more important to
[1:52:49] carry the load that you think that it's
[1:52:50] going to carry or that you're building
[1:52:53] for.
[1:52:56] >> I I don't think so. You don't pick up at
[1:52:59] the top of the culde-sacs.
[1:53:01] >> You're picking up everything from
[1:53:03] everything that's uphill above you.
[1:53:05] >> And there's nothing uphill. I'm at the
[1:53:06] end of a culde-sac.
[1:53:07] >> You're at the end of this culde-sac, but
[1:53:09] behind you there's property and there
[1:53:11] are other houses up uphill from you,
[1:53:14] >> but they've got their own
[1:53:15] >> They have their own drainage,
[1:53:17] >> drenches, trench ditches, and
[1:53:19] >> you're on a mountain side that all the
[1:53:21] reason why none of it hits the ditch is
[1:53:23] because it's all trees. It doesn't
[1:53:26] >> So, what's what's east of what's back
[1:53:29] behind you? Isn't there another house?
[1:53:31] Aren't there other houses and other lots
[1:53:33] that
[1:53:35] >> There's two houses in the culde-sac.
[1:53:37] >> No, I saw your houses around the
[1:53:38] culde-sac. I'm saying
[1:53:40] >> south. Yeah, I'm saying you're ups
[1:53:42] slope. What's up slope above you?
[1:53:45] >> There's one road above there.
[1:53:47] >> Rid your circle, isn't it?
[1:53:48] >> No, he's
[1:53:50] circle. What? The one that loops around.
[1:53:53] I'm not sure what road that is.
[1:54:01] But I don't think the drainage is the
[1:54:03] issue.
[1:54:04] >> Each kind of each culac takes care of
[1:54:06] its own
[1:54:08] or each street takes care of its own
[1:54:11] drainage. That's that's what it's
[1:54:13] designed.
[1:54:13] >> Well, but realistically, you're going
[1:54:15] to,
[1:54:17] you know, unfortunately gravity says
[1:54:20] otherwise. You're gonna take care of
[1:54:22] everything that's uphill from you
[1:54:24] because it's not going to drain the
[1:54:26] other way until you get up to a slope
[1:54:27] and goes the other way.
[1:54:28] >> There's no way to collect that in order
[1:54:30] to
[1:54:31] >> No, it'll come down and it's going to
[1:54:32] come down
[1:54:33] >> in a mudslide.
[1:54:35] >> It's going to come down. It's going to
[1:54:37] come down yours now very steep sides
[1:54:41] um to get to a culvert where it's
[1:54:43] supposed to be taken away.
[1:54:45] >> And some of that is okay. Our ordinance
[1:54:48] says that you can't in building a home,
[1:54:52] you can't create more of a runoff than
[1:54:55] you had before on that lot. In other
[1:54:59] words, by putting in a driveway and
[1:55:01] other
[1:55:02] >> cement things around there. You've got
[1:55:05] to retain that some way on your lot.
[1:55:08] >> This one doesn't retain anything and we
[1:55:10] don't know what happens uphill,
[1:55:13] >> but that's what our ordinance says.
[1:55:15] >> Okay. And you
[1:55:18] I don't think at the top of the
[1:55:20] >> calculated the
[1:55:22] engineers
[1:55:23] >> engineers calculated the 15 a 15 inch
[1:55:26] was what was
[1:55:27] >> and they
[1:55:27] >> no a 12 in minimum 12 in in a culdeac
[1:55:30] >> no wait a minute wait a minute wait a
[1:55:31] minute the ordinance requires 12 but I'm
[1:55:34] saying who you said somebody did
[1:55:37] calculations for this site plan to
[1:55:39] determine
[1:55:40] >> we found that 12 in is not sufficient
[1:55:43] >> because itauses messed up.
[1:55:47] So that's why we tell everybody 15in
[1:55:49] culvert even though the ordinance may
[1:55:52] say 12 or 12 in. Now if they put a 12-in
[1:55:56] culbert in per ordinance and and don't
[1:56:00] have any interaction with us, fine.
[1:56:02] That's what the ordinance calls for and
[1:56:05] they comply. But when they ask, we say,
[1:56:08] >> don't they always have to ask? you you
[1:56:10] kind of control building codes and
[1:56:13] driveways and culverts.
[1:56:17] » Well, at the end of the construction,
[1:56:20] that's that's when that's getting done.
[1:56:23] And and we do. And like Erin said,
[1:56:26] there's a there's an overburden
[1:56:28] required, three or 4 inch overburden
[1:56:30] required on those kinds of culverts
[1:56:33] >> to protect the cover.
[1:56:34] >> Yes. And sometimes that doesn't even
[1:56:39] >> because there's so many building in a m
[1:56:42] on a mountain side has so many different
[1:56:45] nuances.
[1:56:47] Um as somebody that has lived in that
[1:56:50] home for a year and a half. Um
[1:56:53] I can tell you that the most critical
[1:56:55] one is the slope of the driveway to for
[1:56:58] safety.
[1:56:59] >> I don't disagree with that.
[1:57:01] >> So that would that's the first thing to
[1:57:02] make sure is right. And I think every
[1:57:04] yeah, everybody agrees there.
[1:57:06] >> And I I don't have a problem with I see
[1:57:09] that there are because of the not that
[1:57:12] your your property is similar to the
[1:57:14] others in the sense that you've got
[1:57:15] steep slopes.
[1:57:16] >> Yeah.
[1:57:17] >> Getting back. So that the variance I
[1:57:19] don't have a problem with. I can see
[1:57:21] that that
[1:57:23] while I think you should have gotten it
[1:57:25] permitted and done the correct way the
[1:57:27] first time.
[1:57:28] >> Yeah.
[1:57:28] >> And I appreciate the fact that you're a
[1:57:30] solve the problem guy, but sometimes you
[1:57:33] need to
[1:57:34] >> Yeah.
[1:57:35] >> to get approval instead of asking for
[1:57:37] permission.
[1:57:38] >> Yeah.
[1:57:38] >> Um which it seems to me the implication
[1:57:42] is what is the impact is is on the um
[1:57:48] the drainage
[1:57:52] a thought.
[1:57:54] If the city can get Utopia to come out
[1:57:59] and relocate that line or bury it
[1:58:01] deeper,
[1:58:04] would you be okay then with putting in
[1:58:07] the 15-in or potentially 12 1/2 in
[1:58:11] culvert? If we get them to come out and
[1:58:14] do that work,
[1:58:15] >> Yeah. it just when they do it, they're
[1:58:17] going to tear up that whole thing. Well,
[1:58:19] they they will they'll have but you'd
[1:58:22] want it torn out if you're going to
[1:58:23] replace in a culvert. It won't make much
[1:58:25] difference that way.
[1:58:26] >> The difference is when I tear it out,
[1:58:29] they won't like they I mean they're
[1:58:31] contracted employees that'll come and
[1:58:34] tear I mean
[1:58:36] I don't know. We we know the difference
[1:58:39] of somebody carefully tearing it out
[1:58:41] versus somebody who doesn't.
[1:58:44] That would be my concern is if they do
[1:58:46] that it they just tear up that whole
[1:58:48] front which creates a bigger problem.
[1:58:51] That's typically what happens. But
[1:58:54] >> I just throwing
[1:58:56] >> throwing an idea out here.
[1:58:57] >> I mean that would be that would be the
[1:59:00] only way in my that I could see to do
[1:59:03] it. I don't think that it's necessary.
[1:59:08] But if you guys feel that it is then
[1:59:10] that's how it would have to be solved.
[1:59:11] And and that's another issue, too.
[1:59:13] >> Yeah.
[1:59:14] >> Erin, uh, and I understand that is is a
[1:59:18] 12-in culvert. It may not be ideal, but
[1:59:22] will it work?
[1:59:25] >> Yeah.
[1:59:25] >> Well, I don't know. I that's not that's out of
[1:59:30] my wheelhouse. an engineer would and and
[1:59:34] there'd need to be an assessment as a
[1:59:37] further review to see if if uh if 10-in
[1:59:42] culvert beef would be okay there. Again,
[1:59:45] maybe not ideal, but acceptable.
[1:59:51] » Maybe that's something I have to do is
[1:59:53] have an engineer come and look at it.
[1:59:59] Um
[2:00:02] to me to me the circumstance in this one
[2:00:05] is that
[2:00:07] it's the unusual circumstance is that
[2:00:10] the your inability to strictly comply
[2:00:13] was not you're doing is the city's in
[2:00:16] the the improper placement of the
[2:00:18] existing facil the existing fiber optics
[2:00:21] and you don't have any control over
[2:00:23] that. Um, however, if the city if the
[2:00:28] city
[2:00:30] gets the gets that corrected,
[2:00:34] then
[2:00:35] is 12 months adequate or it needs to be
[2:00:38] 6 months?
[2:00:39] >> It should be this year.
[2:00:41] >> No, I'm just saying if you get the city,
[2:00:43] if the city gets that done,
[2:00:46] >> then you would have and they give you
[2:00:48] notice that you've got six months.
[2:00:51] >> I think it would have to be all done at
[2:00:53] the same time.
[2:00:54] depending on how
[2:00:55] >> you want it done because if he's got to
[2:00:56] if they come in tear that out, he's
[2:00:59] going to want to get it replaced pretty
[2:01:00] soon.
[2:01:01] >> And the other six months is next winter.
[2:01:04] So really, it's we get it done between
[2:01:07] now and October or else we don't get it
[2:01:10] done right this year.
[2:01:13] >> And I I can't imagine not us not being
[2:01:15] able to get Utopia out here,
[2:01:17] >> right?
[2:01:18] >> You know, within a month or 60 days or
[2:01:20] whatever. Now, if Utopia can drill it
[2:01:22] down that way, they don't, then it would
[2:01:25] be way more beneficial cuz then they
[2:01:28] aren't tearing everything up. They may
[2:01:30] want to they may want to under drill it
[2:01:32] anyway. But they're going to they're not
[2:01:35] just going to tear up the the covert
[2:01:40] whereas the covert is. They'll tear up
[2:01:41] that whole ditch and doing that cuz the
[2:01:45] their box is halfway down. It's like 50
[2:01:48] feet from the driveway in the ditch. So,
[2:01:52] they'll tear up all that.
[2:01:54] So, it's not going to be it's it's a big
[2:01:57] job,
[2:01:59] but it it's the reality of it, right?
[2:02:03] If it was right next to the driveway, I
[2:02:05] think you could do it cleaner, but it's
[2:02:06] all the way down on the west side of the
[2:02:08] lot.
[2:02:10] So, yeah.
[2:02:23] Um, let me let me just
[2:02:24] >> Yeah, there's some
[2:02:26] >> Okay,
[2:02:26] >> another added moving parts here that
[2:02:30] >> well become part of the equation.
[2:02:32] >> They have um and so at this point I
[2:02:38] the ground the ground doesn't justify
[2:02:40] it. What justifies in your situation is
[2:02:44] I mean you saw the slope and and I'm not
[2:02:46] talking about the slope now. I'm just
[2:02:48] talking about the culvert.
[2:02:49] >> Um because the culvert impacts you know
[2:02:51] the drainage system for the whole street
[2:02:53] and and property north of you. And so
[2:02:58] but you can't solve it.
[2:03:01] >> And so if
[2:03:04] I'm going to give you I'm not going to
[2:03:06] I'm going to give you how can we can we
[2:03:09] put it
[2:03:12] I don't know that a temporary
[2:03:15] variance is what we're talking about
[2:03:16] because if they can solve the problem, I
[2:03:19] want you to solve the problem.
[2:03:21] >> Yeah.
[2:03:23] >> So, I'm not sure that I'm I don't So,
[2:03:26] I'm not granting a variance in the sense
[2:03:27] that
[2:03:29] you know that it's okay, but it's a I
[2:03:32] guess a conditional variance. We'll call
[2:03:35] it a conditional variance.
[2:03:37] And it is conditioned that it can stay
[2:03:40] that way unless the city can
[2:03:45] get the um fiber optics
[2:03:49] to be replaced that would allow the
[2:03:53] installation of the appropriate cover.
[2:03:56] Um, and then if that happens, then you
[2:03:59] get the you need get from him an
[2:04:02] engineer drawing for that site plan of
[2:04:04] whether to determine whether it's the
[2:04:06] 12-in minimum now or the 15in that was
[2:04:10] proposed.
[2:04:11] >> Okay.
[2:04:13] >> Does that
[2:04:16] make sense?
[2:04:18] because I think in your particular case
[2:04:21] it's the fiber optics
[2:04:24] and you can't solve it but they can but
[2:04:27] they're in the wrong place. if the if
[2:04:29] they were in the right place and that
[2:04:30] was the only thing then I don't think I
[2:04:33] could go there but
[2:04:36] um
[2:04:36] >> I mean I don't know because you only
[2:04:39] have a 10-ft I mean I don't know that
[2:04:42] they're in the wrong place but I don't
[2:04:44] because you have in that easement you
[2:04:47] already have gas which we hit the gas
[2:04:50] line when I did that because they had a
[2:04:53] gas line that wasn't marked correctly
[2:04:56] that you have power and you have fiber
[2:05:01] and now you have another fiber line and
[2:05:03] you cannot have your power and gas have
[2:05:06] to be so far from each other and your
[2:05:09] gas and your fiber have to be so far
[2:05:11] from each other because they interfere
[2:05:13] with one another. So I don't know in
[2:05:15] that 10 or 12t I can't remember if it's
[2:05:18] 10 or 12t eastma but
[2:05:19] >> it's probably 12t. So in that case, like
[2:05:24] you only have
[2:05:26] so much space. You can't put it in that
[2:05:28] whole 12T section cuz you have to
[2:05:30] accommodate gas and you can't
[2:05:31] accommodate power. So I'm not 100% sure
[2:05:36] that fiber is in the wrong spot. It may
[2:05:39] have been where they could run it, but
[2:05:41] it is in the wrong spot for putting in
[2:05:44] that culvert for sure. But I'm just
[2:05:46] saying that if a fiber company comes out
[2:05:50] like and you tell them to move it 12
[2:05:52] inches down and they hit the gas line
[2:05:56] cuz it's in that exact same location cuz
[2:05:59] I hit the gas line
[2:06:02] and it wasn't marked that way. It wasn't
[2:06:04] supposed to be that way. But because the
[2:06:06] gas line was put in so long ago, they
[2:06:08] didn't have their paperwork right. And
[2:06:09] so I didn't even though I called in blue
[2:06:12] stakes and they marked it. It wasn't
[2:06:14] marked there and I hit it cuz it was an
[2:06:17] old line. I'm just saying that I don't
[2:06:20] know why that fiber is there. If there's
[2:06:23] a reason why, but it is in the way of
[2:06:25] the covert, but there are so many other
[2:06:28] utilities running in there. I don't know
[2:06:31] where they're going to run it, but it is
[2:06:32] worth a phone call to say, can you guys
[2:06:35] move this? Like I don't know. Yeah.
[2:06:37] Well, it seems from
[2:06:41] my perspective
[2:06:44] that
[2:06:47] to require him
[2:06:50] to put in
[2:06:52] to replace the existing 10 with another
[2:06:54] 12 increases his slope and screws up the
[2:06:58] street. Is that fair? I mean, if he
[2:07:02] doesn't change and go down farther, if
[2:07:04] you took out what's there, and put in
[2:07:06] what was supposed to be there, the 15,
[2:07:08] that's going to raise you what, three to
[2:07:10] five inches of
[2:07:11] >> 5 in with the extra stuff. That's going
[2:07:16] to screw up
[2:07:19] street and the driveway.
[2:07:22] >> Yeah. The other issues with the snow
[2:07:24] plowing
[2:07:25] >> and the snow plowing
[2:07:28] and that would raise it. and so that he
[2:07:32] doesn't have the ability to go lower
[2:07:33] unless you guys figure out what the
[2:07:36] problems are to solve. But if you solve
[2:07:39] that, then I think he's got to
[2:07:42] comply and do it. So, does that sound
[2:07:46] like a conditional variance? And if they
[2:07:47] sit on it, you get to sit on yours. And
[2:07:50] if they don't sit on it, you're going to
[2:07:51] have to act.
[2:07:53] >> Okay. Yeah. I mean,
[2:07:55] >> and then I think
[2:07:59] we need to look at a economy of scale
[2:08:03] too. Is that something that the city
[2:08:06] >> wants to move forward with or just leave
[2:08:09] it as it is? Is it
[2:08:13] >> that well
[2:08:14] >> worth?
[2:08:15] >> And that's what I'm saying is it's
[2:08:16] conditional. If they're not willing to
[2:08:18] solve the problem that you can't solve
[2:08:21] in light of the impact on the general
[2:08:24] public,
[2:08:25] then
[2:08:27] you get the conditional variance. But if
[2:08:30] they solve a problem
[2:08:33] that should have been problem solved had
[2:08:36] you not solved a problem on your own,
[2:08:38] then um
[2:08:40] >> Yeah, makes sense.
[2:08:42] >> Yeah, I think that's fair.
[2:08:43] >> Yeah. And I I mean I can only speak for
[2:08:47] the time the couple years that I've been
[2:08:49] up here and worked with the city. You
[2:08:51] guys are great to work with. So
[2:08:54] >> yeah.
[2:08:54] >> Well, and you should say that whether or
[2:08:56] not that's true or not, but I'm assuming
[2:08:58] it's true.
[2:08:58] >> I built in a lot of areas and there I
[2:09:02] mean it's hard to build up here. I got
[2:09:03] my butt kicked cuz I built my own home.
[2:09:06] It was tough
[2:09:07] >> like in the worst winter that we could
[2:09:09] have. Me and my two boys as teenagers
[2:09:11] building the home. So, there was some
[2:09:13] real value there, but it was really, tough, right? And there's some
[2:09:17] unique things up here. But the city was
[2:09:19] great in every case when they didn't
[2:09:21] have to be. It could have been me. You
[2:09:24] know what I mean? And there's something
[2:09:26] to say for that. We live by each other.
[2:09:29] I enjoy seeing him every time. And
[2:09:31] there's other places that that doesn't
[2:09:33] exist. So, yeah, for that. See, and I
[2:09:37] think the problem is is that there are
[2:09:39] also two things. Is that if you don't
[2:09:40] fix it, you've got the problems. If you require him if we required strict
[2:09:46] compliance, it's going to cause him to
[2:09:48] go out of compliance and affect the
[2:09:50] street with the snow plows and
[2:09:52] everything else and raising that. And
[2:09:54] it's caused by a problem he can't solve
[2:09:56] because of the existing utilities that
[2:10:00] are there. And until that part's
[2:10:02] cleared, I would give him a conditional
[2:10:05] variance. But that if you solve those
[2:10:07] problems and give him notice, he's got
[2:10:08] to
[2:10:09] >> Yeah.
[2:10:09] >> got to
[2:10:10] >> if they're doing it, I want to do it the
[2:10:12] exact same time. We tear it up, we fix
[2:10:14] it, and we have it put back down.
[2:10:16] >> And I still have my deposits and
[2:10:18] everything held. So, it's like it's
[2:10:21] important to resolve now or not because
[2:10:24] >> and we should be able to find out and
[2:10:27] it's not something that we're going to
[2:10:29] oh, we'll get around to it when we can.
[2:10:31] We we need to address it now
[2:10:34] >> in fairness to him. So do I give you a a
[2:10:38] year limit to do it?
[2:10:39] >> Yeah.
[2:10:44] » And if it doesn't happen in a year then
[2:10:46] the con the variance becomes
[2:10:49] >> permanent or unc or
[2:10:51] >> becomes unconditional
[2:10:52] >> unconditional.
[2:10:54] >> Yeah. I mean I think we all know that it
[2:10:56] happens in the next 6 months because of
[2:10:59] snow.
[2:10:59] >> Yeah.
[2:11:00] >> Right. So,
[2:11:01] >> well, yeah, I want to I want to give the
[2:11:03] option to get past winter.
[2:11:06] >> Yeah.
[2:11:07] >> Um,
[2:11:09] >> yeah.
[2:11:11] Now,
[2:11:13] changing the subject just a little bit.
[2:11:15] The other issue I don't we have we've
[2:11:18] addressed it I guess maybe in a
[2:11:19] roundabout way. It's not the driveway
[2:11:22] slope.
[2:11:24] It's the setback
[2:11:26] for the driveway. It's extending into
[2:11:28] that side into into the setback
[2:11:30] >> but it doesn't have any right but it
[2:11:33] doesn't have anything to do with slope.
[2:11:35] you mentioned slope and so I was
[2:11:38] >> okay then excuse I thought we'd talk
[2:11:40] about the elongating that it went into
[2:11:42] this slope to give to deal with this
[2:11:44] slope down here that that the elongation
[2:11:49] into the setback those cars created in
[2:11:54] order to get this slope this slope could
[2:11:58] never be fixed because it's only
[2:12:00] conditioned between here and here with
[2:12:02] the two driveways the reason why This
[2:12:04] was elongated was to get this slope
[2:12:08] to get that original from here.
[2:12:10] >> But you're in the setback. Not there.
[2:12:12] The slope. You're in the setback over
[2:12:13] here, right?
[2:12:14] >> No, this has got your 20 foot. This set
[2:12:18] this the only area that is impeded in
[2:12:21] that 20ft section is right here.
[2:12:24] >> And it's to accommodate this lower half
[2:12:26] because this upper half I guess we could
[2:12:29] have done the same thing and got within
[2:12:30] 5 ft of the property line here. So, it's
[2:12:33] the front yard setback that you're
[2:12:34] repeating.
[2:12:35] >> Yes, it
[2:12:35] >> it's a sideyard actually.
[2:12:38] >> Okay. These two, this sideyard.
[2:12:40] >> Yes, that's the one that's to be is that
[2:12:43] the driveway is supposed to be 20 ft
[2:12:45] away from that side.
[2:12:47] >> Oh, so it should be 20 ft. So, it should
[2:12:50] be Well, oh, you're saying the driveway
[2:12:52] is within the 20 ft here.
[2:12:55] >> Yes, correct. It's 10 ft off instead of
[2:12:57] 20. And it was I moved it there to get
[2:13:00] this lower half compliant with slope.
[2:13:03] >> Okay. Thank you for bringing out. I
[2:13:05] thought it was this part.
[2:13:07] >> Okay.
[2:13:07] >> So,
[2:13:09] you agree? Okay. Yeah.
[2:13:11] >> And I don't have a problem with that
[2:13:13] either, but I mean to do it, but
[2:13:15] >> cuz I thought the purpose of the
[2:13:17] elongating where it's just going into a
[2:13:20] different one than I thought.
[2:13:20] >> And he he took it way over here so that
[2:13:25] he could meet this slope here.
[2:13:27] >> Right. Well, and I understood
[2:13:29] >> because if he if he came in 20 ft, it it
[2:13:33] >> I was sitting at 17%. So,
[2:13:36] >> but you're focusing it was the it's a
[2:13:38] setback from the driveway
[2:13:40] to the property.
[2:13:41] >> Yes.
[2:13:41] >> Yeah.
[2:13:42] >> Not to the
[2:13:43] >> not the driveway itself.
[2:13:45] >> Yes.
[2:13:46] So, that should be if it is now 10,
[2:13:50] should it be 20?
[2:13:51] >> Yeah. So he needs a variance in if
[2:13:54] you're willing to grant it if
[2:13:55] >> I am. I mean I was that
[2:13:58] >> I thought it was over here but it's over
[2:14:00] there.
[2:14:00] >> Yeah. I just wanted
[2:14:01] >> Yeah, it's on the east side of the
[2:14:03] property.
[2:14:03] >> Clarification.
[2:14:04] >> So technically are you considering
[2:14:06] that's a
[2:14:10] for describing that that's within the 20
[2:14:13] foot front setbacker? Is that the
[2:14:16] separation of a driveway from 20 ft from
[2:14:19] the sideyard?
[2:14:20] >> It's a side. It's a side property line.
[2:14:23] >> Okay, that's what
[2:14:27] >> and either side wherever that
[2:14:29] >> okay
[2:14:29] >> making difference where they place the
[2:14:31] driveway. It has to be 20 ft away. And
[2:14:33] you know, you know why that was
[2:14:36] implemented years ago
[2:14:39] so that
[2:14:41] people who are snowblowing their
[2:14:44] driveway wouldn't throw it on their
[2:14:47] neighbor's yard.
[2:14:49] So they gave him 20 feet to throw the
[2:14:52] snow off their driveway.
[2:14:55] >> When you when you said that about the
[2:14:57] front setback, I was kind of throwing
[2:14:59] me. So I It's the 20 ft from
[2:15:03] >> That's real up here. Yeah.
[2:15:05] >> Yeah.
[2:15:07] >> Well, and you know, you have such an
[2:15:09] interesting environment. I mean, that's
[2:15:10] why people come is because you have such
[2:15:13] a great, you know, natural environment.
[2:15:16] But boy, it brings, you know, drainage
[2:15:19] and,
[2:15:20] you know, wildfire.
[2:15:22] >> Yeah. A lot of other things.
[2:15:25] >> And and I guess I'm a little more having
[2:15:27] been to Kawaii and see where, you know,
[2:15:28] streams where they were just dry ditches
[2:15:31] before and now they, you know, people's
[2:15:33] homes were flooded and
[2:15:35] >> streets and cars were,
[2:15:37] >> well, cars weren't, but I mean, boulder
[2:15:39] and it was, it was interesting to
[2:15:42] >> It's scary when mother nature does their
[2:15:45] thing.
[2:15:45] >> Yeah. We don't live in a climate that
[2:15:47] you'd ever have that kind of water.
[2:15:49] We're not the same. But
[2:15:51] >> it only takes months.
[2:15:53] >> We do have some crazy storms. We
[2:15:55] actually had
[2:15:56] >> Well, we did all that mitigation though
[2:15:58] a couple of years ago because of all
[2:16:01] that stuff coming down the canyon.
[2:16:03] >> Right. From the fire, right?
[2:16:05] >> Yes. Because of fire.
[2:16:07] >> That's what right now with the
[2:16:09] vegetation, it's amazing. The vegetation
[2:16:12] takes all the moisture. There's so many
[2:16:14] trees, but as soon as you have a fire
[2:16:16] and you don't have that vegetation,
[2:16:17] that's when you have the
[2:16:19] >> But then you have the mudslide, too. I
[2:16:21] lived in Saratoga and we had the
[2:16:22] mudslide.
[2:16:23] >> I was going to say you have this
[2:16:24] mudslide usually faster because you've
[2:16:27] lost not only the trees, but you've lost
[2:16:29] the grass to hold it in place.
[2:16:31] >> Yeah.
[2:16:32] And that went we only had rain for
[2:16:34] 45 minutes and we had a wall of water
[2:16:38] come through our subdivision that was
[2:16:40] 450 ft wide and 4t tall but it was 90%
[2:16:44] mud and boulders
[2:16:45] >> and the only thing that saved the kids
[2:16:47] that were in the streets was the fact
[2:16:49] that when it rained it started hailing.
[2:16:51] So all the kids went in. It was a
[2:16:53] Saturday night at 7:00 p.m. I was
[2:16:56] watching the BYU game and my neighbor
[2:16:57] came running over
[2:16:59] >> and he and it banging on the door cuz it
[2:17:02] missed our house by one lot, me and him.
[2:17:05] >> And he yelled, "Can you hear that?" And
[2:17:06] I said, "Yeah, I thought it was just
[2:17:08] rain." He's like, "It's a mudslide." And
[2:17:10] so I run out there and there's a
[2:17:12] mudslide taken out. It took out 14
[2:17:14] homes.
[2:17:14] >> Oh goodness.
[2:17:15] >> But that's what we had a fire in July,
[2:17:19] June, July. And that happened. And it
[2:17:21] was the Saturday of um Labor Day
[2:17:25] weekend, that first week of September.
[2:17:27] >> Was that fast? So you still
[2:17:29] >> Yeah.
[2:17:30] >> chance.
[2:17:30] >> Well, thank you.
[2:17:32] >> Okay.
[2:17:33] And you'll write that up then. I
[2:17:36] will um for those and um
[2:17:39] >> thanks for supplying me some words for
[2:17:41] what I wanted to
[2:17:43] >> that exterior suppression because I it
[2:17:45] just seems to me that that was a
[2:17:47] solution that
[2:17:49] >> I'm sure I wasn't the first one to think
[2:17:51] of. So, I'm I'm doing a big project up
[2:17:54] in Park City at the East Village of Deer
[2:17:58] Creek Deer Valley Ski Resort. And this
[2:18:02] has come into play in the last 3 months
[2:18:04] because WOOI has changed all of their
[2:18:07] they've updated their paths where embers
[2:18:11] could drop and we weren't in a zone and
[2:18:14] now we are in a zone and we're building
[2:18:18] 50 town homes that are between 12 and
[2:18:21] $18 million a piece and all of those are
[2:18:25] now uninsurable unless we up it. So,
[2:18:28] we've had to do exterior fire
[2:18:30] sprinklers. We had to do a class A fire
[2:18:33] uh roof system. So, funny enough, I was
[2:18:36] sitting there. I'm like, I know the
[2:18:37] answer cuz I'm dealing with it in my
[2:18:39] work every day.
[2:18:40] >> Yeah.
[2:18:41] >> And Yeah. These homes are It's not worth
[2:18:43] it. $15 million. It's never worth the
[2:18:46] $15 million town. But
[2:18:48] >> the extra that you're doing, is that to
[2:18:50] comply with with park or other
[2:18:54] ordinances up there? It's just extra.
[2:18:56] >> It's only for
[2:18:57] >> insurance purposes.
[2:18:58] >> Yes. So, and one of the good things is
[2:19:02] that came out of the terrible fires of
[2:19:03] Southern California was the insurance
[2:19:06] companies were hit so hard that now that
[2:19:08] they're they are communicating much
[2:19:09] better with like us builders up front
[2:19:12] and saying, "Hey, it's and it's
[2:19:15] happening because of the people funding
[2:19:16] it saying, hey, we're funding this
[2:19:18] project. We need to make sure
[2:19:21] >> that we're insurable." and they're
[2:19:22] coming back to us in the building
[2:19:24] process even before there's an owner
[2:19:26] saying this is not insurable with that
[2:19:29] unless you do this and this and this and
[2:19:31] it's added costs but could you imagine
[2:19:33] buying a $15 million town home and then
[2:19:36] you cannot have insurance
[2:19:38] >> it would be horrible
[2:19:39] >> and I and I think that you know I know
[2:19:42] it was a long time ago and stuff but I
[2:19:44] and I don't remember now exactly but
[2:19:46] those fires that kind of sparked the you
[2:19:49] know the wooie is what you're calling
[2:19:51] and to come in those urban fires and
[2:19:54] >> you know it just um and and I know it's
[2:19:57] affected community you know it's
[2:19:58] particularly not even Park City but
[2:20:01] would there but even farther ones up you
[2:20:03] know about how close you can
[2:20:04] >> yes
[2:20:05] >> have stuff things and and you think oh
[2:20:07] it's just crazy and then you see these
[2:20:10] horrible fires that are happening and
[2:20:12] you realize that
[2:20:12] >> take out entire towns yeah
[2:20:15] >> and you realize that we're building
[2:20:18] right where we shouldn't be building in
[2:20:20] a lot of cases This is a beautiful area,
[2:20:23] but it probably wasn't designed by God
[2:20:25] for building it. Even though now that we
[2:20:27] live here, we're grateful we're here,
[2:20:29] but he probably gave us that valley, but
[2:20:31] we want to live here.
[2:20:34] >> Yeah.
[2:20:34] >> Well, others might say, "Well, he gave
[2:20:36] us the valley so we can plant food in
[2:20:37] it." But
[2:20:38] >> that's true.
[2:20:40] >> And I grew up on a potato farm in Idaho,
[2:20:42] so I could empathize with that one, too.
[2:20:45] >> It It's crazy.
[2:20:46] >> Did you want to take this with you?
[2:20:48] >> No, I want you to keep that. I want you
[2:20:50] to mark it and keep it with that.
[2:20:52] >> And um I would imagine that Jod has
[2:20:55] probably set up
[2:20:56] >> some kind of a filing system for the
[2:20:58] thing
[2:20:59] >> and I'd fold it up and mark it and put
[2:21:01] it in there so it's it's with you.
[2:21:03] >> We'll do and then we'll
[2:21:06] >> Well, I do this cuz I
[2:21:08] >> Thank you for your time.
[2:21:09] >> Well,
[2:21:10] >> yes.
[2:21:10] >> And
[2:21:11] >> appreciate it.
[2:21:13] >> And I appreciate you coming. Like it's
[2:21:16] great help. great help to be able to
[2:21:20] work as a team and figure out its best
[2:21:22] to really I really appreciate you coming
[2:21:25] down from Salt Lake and being
[2:21:27] >> Well, I'm coming out and if you hadn't
[2:21:29] have been able to say that it was the
[2:21:31] fiber octave problems or that you
[2:21:32] couldn't do it because of the stuff that
[2:21:34] was already there, I probably would have
[2:21:35] made you do it anyway.
[2:21:37] Well, I only know it was cuz I was the
[2:21:40] one with the shovel digging. And so,
[2:21:43] yeah, I I did I did it without approval,
[2:21:47] but I didn't do it recklessly cuz it's
[2:21:49] my own property, right? Like I'm like,
[2:21:52] what else do I do here?
[2:21:54] >> But yeah,
[2:21:54] >> next time call.
[2:21:56] >> Yes. But what I was battling is it was
[2:21:59] September and October we get snow here.
[2:22:02] So, you're battling. If I didn't put
[2:22:04] down an asphalt there, I couldn't have
[2:22:07] occupied that house. And it was when the
[2:22:10] interest rates were going up, I'd never
[2:22:12] said this, but we it was because I built
[2:22:15] it myself. I was always behind schedule.
[2:22:18] And but my last 4 months of my loan, I
[2:22:21] ended up paying over $50,000 in fees.
[2:22:25] They extend the 4 months, but the bank
[2:22:26] wouldn't let me extend any further
[2:22:28] without adjusting my interest rate, and
[2:22:31] it would have jumped my payment like
[2:22:32] $2,000 a month,
[2:22:34] >> which then meant I wouldn't have been
[2:22:35] able to live in the home. So, it was
[2:22:38] I I did that calculated knowing if I had
[2:22:42] to pay to rip out that driveway, it's
[2:22:45] cheaper than what I'm faced with now.
[2:22:48] So, it's the it's the best or the worst
[2:22:50] two options, right?
[2:22:51] >> So, it's a calculated risk and
[2:22:54] >> Yeah.
[2:22:54] >> Um and and and we
[2:22:58] and you would have gotten tagged. Well,
[2:23:00] you got tagged.
[2:23:01] >> Yeah.
[2:23:02] >> And and you and had they not been there,
[2:23:06] you would have you would have been
[2:23:08] >> I would have had the 12 in. I wouldn't
[2:23:09] have had the 15. It's in my mind.
[2:23:13] >> Yeah.
[2:23:13] And there was there was nothing we
[2:23:16] could or should have done about it
[2:23:18] because it's co.
[2:23:19] >> So, you know, it's on us.
[2:23:21] >> Yeah.
[2:23:22] >> If it's not good, then we need to change
[2:23:24] it. So,
[2:23:24] >> yeah.
[2:23:25] >> Well, thank you. It was good to meet
[2:23:27] you.
[2:23:27] >> Appreciate the time.
[2:23:28] >> Very good. Thank you very much.
[2:23:31] >> Yeah. Appreciate it.
[2:23:33] >> Like always,
[2:23:37] » if we want to meet out there and talk
[2:23:39] about it, kind of look at it together,
[2:23:42] let me know. Okay.
[2:23:48] See how