Welcome.
Thank you. Welcome to city council
meeting. We are glad that you're here.
This is way more than we normally have
and that's okay. This is all part of the
process. Um, sorry. I'm just trying to
make sure that I'm connected so that I
can see who's online also.
One second.
I know everybody's done.
Okay. Um we're just going to follow the
agenda. Our first um thing on the agenda
tonight is an invocation and pledge of
allegiance um given and led by Council
Member Peterson.
» Father God, we are so grateful for this
amazing country and a
wonderful city
>> that we live in. We are grateful for the
opportunity we have to speak up and
share our opinions.
We pray for an added measure of kindness
and civility and understanding this
night. That we'll be able to express our
concerns in a kind and respectful way
and that we will be have a greater
capacity to listen and to learn from
each other so that we may best serve the
needs of our community today and
tomorrow. We are grateful for this
amazing
opportunity and ask that thou will bless
it with
thy grace and thy love. And we say these
things in our savior's name, Jesus
Christ. Amen.
>> Please stand.
Ready to begin.
>> To the flag of the United States of
America and to the republic for which it
stands. One nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all.
Okay. Um, so our agenda tonight is
fairly simple. We have fairly simple. It
looks long. Um, there's a whole bunch of
things that we have to uh follow by
statute in order to go through this
process and make sure that we check all
the boxes so that we've followed what
the statute is. Um but really um we have
two items. We have the presentation of
our fiscal year 27 budget and um then
the truth and taxation process which
will include a public hearing. So with
that um
let me just kind of outline the way that
it's going to work. We're going to I'll
turn the time over to Bryce Hatterley,
our city administrator, and he will walk
us through the presentation.
um when he and and we won't take it's not intended to be a public comment
period or have questions during that
presentation. Um this is the part where
he goes through and make sure we check
all the boxes. When we get done with his
presentation,
um then we will have the public hearing
and I will outline some of um just our process of how we'll go through the
public hearing to make sure that
everybody can have their voice heard. um
when we get done with the presentation.
So with that, Bryce, I'm gonna turn the
time over to you.
Thank you, Mayor. Let me get my
screen shared here.
As you said, this evening, we have a
series of steps that we have to go
through according to the state law to
comply with um those requirements. So
I'll begin with the first one which is
agenda item 2A presentation of the
proposed FY27 final budget for the
general fund and other funds. I'm not
going to force you to go through each
page by page because it's the interim
budget with the following changes. Uh in
line 1031100
we had a reduction in revenue of
$75,198.
Um that's the state tax commission as
they do the final calculations.
It's always a fuzzy number that moves up
and down and um it reduce by that amount
of money and I can share that in a
little bit. Um item line item 10311 is a
requirement by state law that we
continue to hold the $995,285
in a uh reserve revenue account and that
continues to be there. However, um
because of the way the state um tax
commission website calculates the
percent the rate, um it's slightly
higher than the $994,249
that we had in the interim budget
because we just didn't have that number.
So, it's a little over $1,000 more, but
that's because the state tax commission
website does that final calculation.
1031300
uh is an anticipated $25,000 increase in
sales tax revenue that as Brian's been
looking at our end of year um believes
that we will increase by that amount
over what we projected earlier in the
year. Uh line item 1032100 is a $5,000
increase in business license fee
revenue. And then the final number um 10
I'm sorry 1039300 is a $29,358
increase in the general fund from other
funds. This is where the water fund,
this um garbage and storm drain all
contribute money to the general fund
because we provide services for them. So
we have a calculation based on the
budget sizes that dictate uh that amount
of money. And so when we had the final
wages and everything, Brian was able to
make that final calculation and so that
increased the general fund revenue. Um,
continuing on, adjustments to salaries,
retirement workers compensation, group
health insurance. So all of the benefits
u were finally adjusted once we had the
final uh rates from the trust for our t
uh workers compensation and other
insuranceances and the final salaries
were set. So there was adjustments in
each one of the budgets for those. We
made a slight increase of $20,000 to
computer system support based on what
our expenses are coming in at the end of
the FY26 budget. We made an increase to
insurance lines per Utah local
government's trust. Uh $500 decrease in
the post office expense. Capital
projects increases were u appropriated
each budget based on the last meeting
where you approved those that list and
that's attached to the budget. Uh line
1062310
is a $38,57
increase from the fire department.
That's the annual uh payment that we
make to them and we just got that number
after the interim.
>> That's in addition to what we
>> to what we paid the previous year. Yes.
>> And then as a result of that and all the
capital projects, the fund balance um
came down to $157,335.
So you will see that in the um
final budget that's in your packet and
you can see those lines identified as
you go down through. Now there's also
some other increases and some of the
utilities and things for the same types
of things like wages and things of that
nature.
So any questions on that
budget adjustments? Okay. No.
>> The next requirement under 2B is a
statement of the dollar amount of the
additional adorum tax revenue that would
be generated each year by the proposed
increase in the certified tax rate.
Early in the year, we had to estimate
with the best information we had and
knowing what we anticipated the bond
payments to be for the building uh if
this is approved. We had set an amount
of $994,249
and that was what was identified in the
property tax impact schedule. Again,
when we calculated to the closest digit
um and it's six digits long in the
property tax rate, um the closest number
that came to is 995,285.
So, there's that slight variation, but
we can't change what the state tax
commission tells us that number is going
to be. So, we just want everybody to be
aware that it is slightly higher than
what we had projected with the best
information we had.
The revenue generated um was identified
in the notice that um taxpayers received
and that has been advertised as you see
here. Uh again this statement um that
was this statement is created the white
document is created by the Utah State
Tax Commission identifies the amount of
tax on a single family residence and on
a commercial property and um it shows
the $995,285
that would be generated by the proposed
tax rate. Um, I took the liberty of
creating the small table down below that
shows for a primary residence what the
taxpayers would pay current year if
there was not a property tax increase
both for the total year and then the uh
by monthly amount the proposed increase
and what that would add and then what
the total would be the same for
business. Um, if our citizens are not
aware, a business and a second home are
both considered the same. they pay 100%
of the value. Um those who have primary
residents get a 45% reduction on the
value uh when the property tax is
calculated.
This is another form that is created by
the certifi the Utah state tax
commission. Um it's kind of hard to see
because it's so small, but there's some
yellow oval circles there. The 2,124 802
is what's referred to as the auditor
certified tax rate. That's telling us
that if we did nothing, that's how much
property tax revenue we would receive
for the year. However, because we
submitted the paperwork and went through
the truth and taxation process and the
numbers that we uh provided to them for
the 995,000,
the final rate, if approved, and I need
to reiterate, if approved, would be
3,12087.
The city council can approve a lower
rate for lower revenue, but they cannot
adopt anything higher than this rate or
this revenue by law. Um just for
interest I did put over here to the side
um just what some of our budgets this is
not the total general fund but just to
give an idea um you know if we collect
this year $3,120,000
how does that relate to some of our
larger general fund budget uh
categories. Our police department as you
can see is 3,581.
our fire assessment. For those who
aren't aware, the South Davis Metro Fire
Service Area, they collect property
taxes through an assessed rate. And then
they also send each agency that they
support an invoice based on um criteria
that's been established when the agency
was created. And our portion this next
year is 914,000. And you asked Julie
earlier that adjustment that I had in
there. That's what that came up to this
year. Um, our streets department
529,000.
Um, that doesn't include any of the
maintenance that comes out of our class
C road funds. Our parks is 762,000
and our recreation is 121,000. So, these
are just some of the larger budgets that
the general fund supports. Our full um
general fund budget is like 10,44,000
overall. So, I just want folks to get an
understanding of what property taxes go
to and how much of that is used within
the city.
Moving on,
item 1 C of the agenda requires a
presentation for the reasons of the
proposed tax increase, including the
taxing entity's intended use of
additional ad valorium tax revenue. So,
this all focuses on one thing, a new
city hall and park reconstruction. And
the question is why this project and why
now? So I'll just share some information
that we have shared in the pamphlets,
we've shared in our meetings, we've
shared in um the um city newsletter and
things of that nature, but for those who
may not have been aware of it. Our
primary reason is our police department.
As you can see from the photos, our
evidence storage is pretty much maxed
out. Um, if you were to walk into our
basement, and I know that the chief and
uh Michelle Roelly have taken people on
tour so they can see this, uh, we are
required to, uh, hold on to more and
more evidence all the time. State laws
are requiring longer, uh, retention of
storage or u evidence storage. Um, the
picture on the far right is our general
evidence. The pictures on the lower left
are boxes that have several cases, as
many as Michelle can pack into each one.
But what you can't see is those are
literally stored in a storage area that
has a locked door underneath the stairs
going to the basement. So, it's kind of
a Harry Potter storage kind of thing.
We're just cramming boxes in many places
that we can lock and secure as part of
evidence um requirements in any nook and
cranny that we can we can find in the
basement.
Another situation that we have in our
police department is our officers are um
because of that portion of the building
being the earliest part of the building
that was finished in the late 1960s.
Um we have one large room that is our
patrol room where our officers are
literally booking evidence. And I'll
move my mouse over. Here's the evidence
table where they put the evidence in. Um
right over here is to the right of that
table you can see the microwave where
they cook their meals and the table um
that's across the room right here. Our
officers are literally cooking and
working and eating in the very same room
that they have to bring drugs and other
contaminated things in as they book them
into evidence. And we just don't feel
that's a a suitable thing. But we don't
have anywhere else to conduct these
things. So, this is part of the reason
why we feel that there is a necessity
for this new building. Um, here's
another photo of the patrol room for the
back corner. So, you can see where the
officers sit to do their reports and
things of that nature. Here's the book
evidence uh table where they have bags
and boxes to put things in. And then in
this corner over here is where the
microwave and plates and things like
that are. So again, not optimal
conditions for people to um also bring
suspects in for blood draws uh for DUIs
and things of that nature. We have two
detectives right now. They're working on
these um small desks. Again, you can see
they have to put their printers on the
floor. They have their u vests and
things on the floor because we just
don't have enough room. Um, this office
area was originally intended to be the
window into the um, interrogation uh,
room where they would take suspects in
to question them. Um, again, we're using
rooms the way they weren't intended and
our interrogation room is normally
filled with boxes of storage and things
of that nature. So, we're just working
over ourselves to to try to accommodate
things. Another example of this
is
Um downstairs um we have rooms uh
starting up here in the upper left and
then in the center and to the right are
actually in the bottom left are is one
room where all evidence has to be
brought into for our uh evidence clerk
to entered into the computer, make sure
everything's correct, and then to move
it to other rooms where it's stored. Um,
we're supposed to have a drug room, a
weapons room separate from the general
evidence room. Uh, Chief might be able
to explain what the reasons are for
those separations, but right now,
because of the way our basement is
structured, and there's just no other
way to change it, we're moving evidence
back and forth between things. And so,
there's what's referred to as a chain of
custody. And so, a future building would
allow all of those things to be in a
central location. And then within the
evidence room, we can create separated
rooms for drugs, weapons, and valuables
so that we comply with the optimal
intent of the state law. Chief, is there
anything you want to add to that?
>> No, it's just the the nature of the
weapons. They need to be secured
separately away from the drugs for for
obvious reasons and that that's the
intent of the state law.
>> Okay. The other thing to remember is
that again um people think well you seal
everything up in a bag but we have
marijuana, we have methamphetamines and
all types of drugs. We don't always know
what those health effects are and we
don't have an air evacuation system in
that old part of the building. In fact,
we don't even have heating and cooling
ducted into the basement um uh where we
have our two of our sergeants. And so
again, we don't know what those effects
are, but we feel it's important that we
start to make those changes. In the
bottom right corner is another room on
our upstairs where you can see that we
have boxes for evidence, storage, um
other things that need to be used by
patrol officers. And so we're just
making do with the room that we have um
to function the best that we can. So our
police department is an area that's uh
severely struggling because of the lack
of uh room. We also have all of u not
all of our weapons, but a large majority
of our um weapons that would be used for
specific and specialized police actions,
they have to be kept at the public works
building in a secured room because we
don't have room for that here. And we
also have to have our um gunsmith u we
have an officer who is the gunsmith who
has to take weapons down there to work
on them because we don't have room here
for those things to be worked on. So
again, it's not optimal um that we have
to keep those weapons under secure lock
and key and we don't have room here in
the building for that um type of
storage. We also have to take um
vehicles and things of that larger types
of things that have to be stripped down
for evidence uh searching to the public
works building. So again, the new
building would have a location in the
building where those types of things
could be done here and it keeps the
chain of custody of evidence more secure
and uh without question of how it's
being handled.
The current building again as I've
mentioned uh we don't have any more room
for PD growth. Our admin all of our
offices are filled in other spaces. Uh I
mentioned no heater AC in the basement
of the PD offices or ventilation. Uh we
don't have a fire sprinkler in this
building. So if we did for some reason
have a fire, it could be a potential
complete loss. Um the building is not
designed for the current seismic
restraints and uh earthquake codes. Um
we have subsidance in this area where we
are noticing the building cracking and
moving in places. Um adequate meeting
and training space. Our police
department has to go down and use our
public work space for for training. Um,
our IT is literally a closet right here
behind the council chambers and we don't
have room for storage of u IT equipment
that we need to I mentioned reliable um
AV system. Um that's the sound system
here. Every Tuesday morning we have to
come in here and if Sam and I or Curtis
and I can't do it, Sam has to come up
and do a Jurassic Park start to get the
system working for the court clerk. So
it's taking hours of staff time. uh and
we've had the the uh people come in, the
contractors to work on it, and they're
doing the best they can to work it. But
it they've explained that because we're
trying to run our system from two
different locations, we're causing the
system not to work the way it's designed
or intended. So, that's another thing
that would be resolved in the new
building. We don't meet all the ADA
accessibility requirements uh in the
building. uh our I mentioned our
interview and interrogation rooms,
mentioned the PD weapon storage and the
separation of weapons and drug evidence
and the evidence storage, ventilation.
Um we have chemicals that officers use
for cleaning their weapons. Right now
that's just in the end of a hallway in
the basement and so again we have odors
and things that are going through the
building. Um, our HBAC we've had several
times when large sections of the
building, excuse me, are not uh working.
We had no air conditioning in the admin
here earlier this summer. Um, the police
department's gone for a couple of weeks
without heat and so we've brought in
portable heaters. So, the whole building
is not on one heating furnace or air
conditioner. It's on several, but if any
one of those go down, large sections of
the building quit functioning. and then
uh longer evidence storage.
This is the
concept drawing of the proposed um city
hall and Hogan Park uh building. And
many of you have already seen this. So
what what are we doing for the next 50
years? This street here is 1500 South.
Here's 800 West. So the proposal again
as a cost savings and we've seen schools
and other government agencies do this
would be to leave the current city hall
in this location so that we don't have
to relocate. We would build the new city
hall just to the east of our current
city hall literally right out the back
door of our city hall on the east side.
There would be a fence along the
sidewalk and the building would be about
halfway through the parking lot. It
would not go all the way to the log
cabin and the uh cemetery. Um, this is a
slightly different uh version of this
gray mass that you see here compared to
what we currently are because staff has
been working with the architects to
continue cutting down square footage
anywhere we can to not overbuild, but to
uh maximize the utilization of the
building, but this would be the general
footprint. We're still working on
locations for pavilions and restrooms
and things in this area, but the council
has met on this and talked about it. And
this is the general layout. Um, assuming
this is passed, the new building would
be constructed while we work out of this
building. We would move into the new
building and then demolish the old and
then build the parking lot at this
location. There would still be the
parking on 720 West uh diagonal parking
that we currently have. And the parking
lot areas for the new parking of the new
building would be about the same as what
we have here at city hall. Now,
this is the latest floor plan up till
last week. And I realize things are
really small, so you can't see it, but
again, I've listed out the first floor
plan, first floor concept plans. Again,
these are not final designs. Um,
one of the things that was being
discussed is the size of the community
room, and that's this room right here.
And this would be a room that would kind
of be like a homes family room that
would go around to a covered patio so
that things events and things could move
back and forth. Um the council made the
decision at the last meeting to cut that
down to 3500 ft from 4,000 um and remove
this center partition door. So again,
we're trying to rightsize the building
but also leave ourselves room for future
growth. We've accommodated um the judges
um security issues. We've allowed for a
larger kitchen than we've had in the
past and even larger kitchen than we
have in the public works building to
accommodate summer recreation cooking
activities. If you just seen the number
of children in our public works kitchen
this morning as they were all in there
learning how to cook things, they were
just standing on top of each other. So,
this would allow recreation programs to
function here at city hall and to have
more space for those. It also allows for
a classroom for the police department so
they can do their training of things
here and not have to travel back and
forth. Um, this building is also being
designed to meet the uh emergency
operations center requirements for
earthquake soundness um and uh backup
generator power and things so that in
the event of a emergency or catastrophe
this building could function on um
independent power.
Um, as I mentioned for the police
department, we are doing things with
larger offices for the detectives, the
sergeants. They're not going to have
independent offices. They'll be combined
into one room. The detectives in one
room, sergeants in another. The patrol
room for um our patrol officers, we're
allowing for more um locker space for
them. So again, we're not trying to
build this large behemoth building.
We're just trying to make sure that it
can accommodate the needs for the
anticipated growth going into the
future. Um, I'll point out that um,
after double-checking our plans here in
the uh, current building, our chief and
our assistant chief's offices are
smaller in the new building than the old
building. Um, not by a large amount for
your 50 ft, but again, you know, every
foot counts. So,
we've also on the second floor um double
checked our office sizes against the
current ones that we have and no
director is getting an office any larger
than 9 in on the width and 9 in on the
length. So, it comes I think about 24
square foot of area. Um so, we're not
trying to big big huge office or
anything. Uh the mayor's office is going
to be shared to the judge's office. Um
so that we're trying to make sure we
don't have rooms just sitting empty. But
we also have a conference room upstairs
and again where more and more data is
stored digitally. Um we don't think we
need as much storage uh of papers but we
still need to have storage. So um we've
accommodated that. Then we have room for
more uh cubicle spaces in the center of
the building u on the administration
side and we're going to work with the
architects. We have about 20 feet that
the second floor is behind the first
floor. And while we could build that
straight out over it, it would cost
about $600,000.
If we choose not to, we can still work
with the architects to make sure the
structural design is such that if we do
need to enclose that in the future, that
would open us up about another 1,200
square ft that we would ask that the
walls and everything be structurally
designed now so that that could be
enclosed um without additional cost. So
that gives us some room for growth if we
need that.
>> Okay.
>> Um in the basement um again we're trying
to maximize the foot or keep the
footprint as minimized as much as
possible so that the park can stay as
large as possible. So this is a
three-story building. You can see here
in this bottom leftand corner is where
the evidence preparation and then the
evidence storage long-term and a drug
and a weapons room. And this will all
have special ventilation that evacuates
the air and uh more locker space and
four times the storage that we what we
currently have. We are also leaving room
for unfinished uh future office space
for support personnel like it or others.
Uh more police storage down here, an
unfinished area for administrative
storage. Um Lacy has a lot of things
that she has to store. So we'll have
storage in the basement on the first
floor near the community room. And then
as we design the um park bathroom slash
um equipment room, it will have a
storage room also for community
services. Um our officers have a
requirement for um physical fitness and
we feel it would be a wise thing for all
of our people to have. So we've got a
small weight room here and treadmill uh
where people can exercise right here on
site. And then this area here in the
center is where we would have our gun
smmith uh gun cleaning and armory so we
can keep it all in one roof.
Park space. Um we're working to have
shaded covers over the pickle ball
courts because the location of the
pickle ball courts will be moved over
here to 800 West and to have shade
covers uh installed between the courts.
Um, we'll have some ADA equipment in the
playground space so that we can
accommodate children of all needs. Uh,
more gathering spaces and pavilions and
shade structures. The park is designed
to have more of a passive use with
trails, open fields. Uh, we want to have
food trucks uh, able to pull in and come
in and park and have more events of that
type. We've talked about a water feature
and while we don't have a final design,
um we are anticipating it being over
here on the east side somewhere close to
the playground so the children um can
play between water and playgrounds.
Mothers can be close enough or parents
can be close enough to keep an eye on
the children and and make sure they know
where they're at and to have a bathroom
somewhere close by so that they're not
out of view. Uh we're working to have a
centralized space for Memorial Day.
Those of you that have attended know
that we have the flag on one side of the
park and the breakfast on the other
side. We're working to try to locate all
of those things here in this uh east
corner of the city hall near the
pavilion. That way we can utilize the
kitchen and things for that. I mentioned
the diagonal parking remaining on 720 uh
west. So,
um during Memorial Day, we had um these
boards and they're out in the foyer that
identify the reasons why it's actually
cheaper to build a new building than it
is to rehabilitate the current building.
And we've used Hogan Construction, who
is um been contracted to be our CMGC
contractor. Um, and we had them do an
evaluation of this building and again to
dig around the foundation to do the
stabilization and then the seismic work
and all the things that would need to go
into fire sprinklers and everything
else. It would be estimated $18 million
to rehabilitate a building that we would
have no more square footage than what we
started with. The estimate is that we
could build a new building of
approximately 24 to 26,000 ft for about
13 to 14 million. I know that's a hard
thing to understand and it was difficult
for me when I first got into government
to say, well, if my own home, I would
just wait, save my money and build an
addition. But in commercial buildings,
because of the types of construction and
the way construction uh standards change
so quickly, it's actually cheaper to
start with a new building. Now, this
building has been added on to two times
since it was first built. Um the oldest
part of it is almost 60 years old, about
57 years old. So we've definitely got
good use out of it, but to try to
rehabilitate is financially more
expensive. Another thing I struggled
with when I first got into government is
I save my money and I pay for things as
I go. However, government can borrow at
a much cheaper rate than um the standard
consumer. And so with inflation
increasing about five% a year in
construction costs um and us being able
to borrow between four and 4 and a.5%
we would have to save
far more than what we would make in just
payments and and that took me a long
time to understand why with the time
value of money it made more sense to
borrow. Uh Ryan, you've dealt in
finances for years, so you could explain
that a little bit more, but we would be
losing ground for each year that we wait
uh rather than moving forward today.
This is just a copy of the brochure that
was mailed out to folks last week that
gave them information. I won't go into
any details on that. It's the same
information we've covered tonight. Uh
this is a page that uh Hogan
Construction in April provided to us.
Now again, we're still working in very
big numbers. We've said, "Okay, based on
the needs assessment, um, we need about
24 to 26,000 square ft." They, with
their experience and having built
buildings like this, have put together
an estimated budget. Um, they're
estimating that the building would cost
about $13 million and the park and site
would be about $11 million for a total
of $24 million.
If you could see um these smaller
numbers, we have $3,727,000
in contingencies set aside by the city
that if unforeseen things come up, we
have some money there. And then also in
our um furnishings package and other
things that we have to pay for, we have
another almost $1.5 million set aside. I
believe I can speak for the council that
our goal is to not have to use that
money. that to me that's that there has
to be some pretty extreme reasons why we
would touch that. Now there there may be
and that's why we have contingency is
because you just never know if we're
going to run into site conditions, soil
conditions, things of that nature. Um
but we are trying to keep the goal of
building a building for around 24 $25
million and we will continue to strive
for that. But there's also in addition
to that 25 million, let's round it to
that. Uh what's referred to as soft cost
of 4.9, let's round that to $5 million
of things that we have to pay for. So
civil surveys, financing, uh
furnishings, uh inspections. So anyway,
there's a list of things that are not
under the contract that we would need to
pay for. So we believe that we have
contingency to cover any foreseen
unforeseen costs and we are striving to
stay within that budget.
We have put together a package of the
revenue and the anticipated
expenditures. So in the blue boxes you
can see that we believe that through
money that we've been putting in savings
um as of July 1st or the very end of
June after the budget was being closed
out, we had about $4 million of capital
fund money for capital projects. We'll
want to keep about 500,000 in that
budget. Um we have
in the past transferred about a million
dollars at the end of the year into that
capital's budget. So um we're estimating
that this next year we hopefully can do
that again. Um we are selling property
at two locations. The old post office
that's been closed and we made about
$445,000
and then we're in the process of selling
the old public works building for
approximately 2.5 million. Um, we also
have the wrap tax because the park will
be a large part of this project. We have
not quite a million dollars, but it'll
be close to a million dollars soon.
We'll want to keep about $250,000 in
reserve. So, we believe that we can
contribute towards this project $8.2
million, and we will need to borrow
approximately $25 million to come up for
a full total of 33,210.
Now again, that 33 million still has
that 5 million in contingency um that we
may or may not have to use. So we'll
just keep those numbers in place and
work towards those with the goal of
coming in lower than that. Below you can
see the expenses and this is Hogan
construction, park site work, um other
soft costs and so we come up with a
total of 33,889.
They don't exactly add up, but again, we
believe that with that contingency, we
can close the gap on that approximately
$600,000.
Also, within the financing uh package,
the debt service, um we have funds
currently with the um road bond money
that we're paying that if we enact a a
transportation utility fee, we can make
up $250,000 of that. We have wrap tax
revenue that's almost $600,000 a year.
We estimate it'll be $600,000 in this
next year. We could apply as much as we
want, but we're right now just
estimating 350,000 of that towards bond
payment. And then this proposed property
act property tax increase of 995 would
bring us to 1,595,000.
And then again, the bond payment would
be approximately 1,592.
Now, if anybody that's keeping an eye on
the news knows bond rates are going up
and down all the time. So, we're just
continuing to stay in touch with Zans's
Bank, who's our financial adviser, and
asking them um where they anticipate
those rates, and we won't know the final
until if the tax increase is approved.
We go out on them open market and find
out what we can get the bonding for.
Okay. Um, in closing, people have said,
"Well, what does the city council know
about buildings?" And I took a little
liberty of looking at your um,
information on the website and what I
know of you. I think we are at the best
time with the group of people that I
know to really work on this project. And
I've just took liberty of putting down
your credentials. If I've made any
mistakes, please correct me. But as you
can see, Ryan, you're educated in
government finance and you've worked in
government finance for years. Uh you've
done capital projects, uh and worked
with multiple boards, Eric Jones, a
licensed architect. Um you have
extensive project manage experience. Um
you've served on the planning commission
board of adjustments, and you're also a
small business owner, so you understand
how this affects our small businesses.
Julie, you have worked with our police
officers closer than anybody that I know
and you've witnessed and seen what
they're dealing with on a regular basis.
You also have experience in the
elementary education and you spend every
month with our senior lunch bunch so you
know what their needs are. Uh Jim, yes,
>> I'd also add that I am a small business
owner and I am a licensed general
contractor.
>> Thank you.
Um, yeah, I was trying to keep things
within space, but both excellent points.
Jim, you have extensive economic
development background. You've worked
for the state of Utah and helping to
bring businesses to the state of Utah.
Um, and I know that you're helping us as
a council member identify things that we
can do with the airport and other
things. Um, your understanding of
business and what businesses rely on and
government services is phenomenal.
You're also a small business owner.
you've had experience in that and you're
a certified government finance manager.
Not a lot of people have that kind of
certification. Uh Rachel, you have I
don't know how many decades and I want
to date you here of uh education
experience. You understand about
childhood development, the importance of
experiential education for children. So,
you know, we've had many conversations,
you and Julie, about what mothers are
looking for children, the importance of
children having these experiences. So
again, I just feel it's this wealth of
knowledge. Wall-E, your IT background,
you see things from the perspective of a
retired citizen. You have extensive
knowledge in the SER program. Uh you're
active in the mental health and suicide
prevention organizations. I just want to
compliment each one of you for what you
bring to the table as elected officials
that I don't know a lot of people
realize and know. Um, in my case, and I
know that our staff, I could go on about
each one of them and gush about their
knowledge, but my background is I
started out in commercial construction
and did that for 10 years, six years.
Anyway, took that, became a building
official, and then during my close to 30
years in government, I've been involved
in multiple construction projects, um,
building buildings, new buildings. Um,
so I think that we bring a vast wealth
of knowledge to this project to make
sure that we're using funds correctly
and protecting the the citizens dollar.
Um, the other thing that we've done
right is we put together a bid package
for a construction manager, general
contractor package, some people might
call it a design build where we hired an
architect and a contractor at the same
time. And we've made those two firms
work together from the very beginning
through what's referred to as a needs
assessment to say what do we need and
are we sizing it correctly and then what
is the price going to be. That's allowed
us to make adjustments as the contractor
says well we can do this cheaper or this
will work better and they're at the
table every week as we're working
through this design process. And so it's
a very collaborative process much better
than b a design and then bid it and find
out you can't afford to build it. And
I've witnessed that. So, I think we're
using the most efficient system and one
that the state of Utah and other
agencies are using regularly.
There's been some questions about wages
and so I just want to put uh to rest
that um
all of our staff have um each year we
look at the cola cost of living that's
set by um the western region um based on
economic factors. This year was 2.4. or
I think last year was 2.4. All employees
um receive that COLA. That's to keep
their wages on par with um inflation.
And then if they meet the requirements
of their job um under satisfactory
performance, then they can receive a
merit increase. And we have a plan that
has steps. It's not based on years. It's
just referred to as steps. And those
steps, depending on where they're at,
start out at the bottom at about 4.1%
and at the top go to about 2.5. Um, so
all employees are receiving the same
merit steps as everyone else. So, um, an
inference that directors are getting
bigger wages. Well, 2.4% of a director's
wage compared to 2.4 of anybody else's
wage. It's always 2.4. and where they're
at on the merit uh steps, it's the same
percentage. So, um I hope people realize
that our directors are not getting some
big fat wage more than others. The
dollar amounts higher, but it's always
the same percent. Um, also I just want
to make sure that people understand that
we have a wage survey that was done by
an independent company and they provide
data to us each year that we refer to
and make sure that our wages are staying
comparable. And our goal is to stay in
the middle of the pack, not the high and
not the low. And so we use that data
each year. That company is uh personnel
systems and services. And so we use that
and I've left a list of the cities here
that um they chose to make our
market-based wage evaluations. Some
people say, "Well, you should only find
cities that are the same size as you."
Well, there's not a lot of cities in the
state that are exactly 11,000 to 12,000.
But we also have to look at that we're
not competing against those cities.
We're competing against the cities
around us that want to steal our
employees. So, it's an amalgamation of
these. and then we work to find the
median and that's what we're using to
set the wages but it's all done by the
assistance of a third party that helps
us put that data together and then we
evaluate it annually. So, um, people can
have their opinion, but I think we've
done a very good job of using the same
system that are used in most of our Utah
cities of making sure that we're paying
our employees fairly. And I think we've
done a good job because when I first got
here four years ago, we were losing
employees, police officers like crazy
and we had to make several wage
increases. We are now fully staffed with
our police department. And so I think
that's a credit to the council's support
of making sure that we're compensating
our employees uh fairly and accurately.
>> Right.
>> Yes.
>> I just want to make one comment there.
The company that we use as we used them
for that wage survey, they went through
and evaluated each position, the job
duties, um the different requirements of
those positions so that they could
compare those same positions with a like
position at another agency. It might be
that at our agency, at our city, we call
them one thing. At another city, they
may call them a different job title, but
they may be doing the same duties. And
so rather than just say police officer
and police officer, they look at those
individually um the way that we have
them categorized and make sure that it's
the same at the other city, not just
based on title. So, as we did that, they
took this all-incclusive look of all of our employees and mapped them out
and then compared them with the similar
employee at the other cities, not just
similar in job title.
>> Thank you. Good point. Um, and yes,
there's a lot of science and research
that goes into all of that and we take
it very seriously and we evaluate that
and there's times when some wages in
some areas are increasing faster than
the market. So, we make market
adjustments, but I would say during this
last year, we did not find the need to
make a market adjustment with any of the
wages, which again tells me that we're
staying kind of a sweet spot in the
median. And so, uh, very pleased with
how that's going.
>> And, and we didn't just offend the young
men's group. They when they called and
asked if they could come, they told me
that they probably wouldn't stay for the
whole meeting. Was it okay if they
excused themselves partway through? So,
just want to make sure that
>> I'm sure there's others that would
probably like to sneak out if they have
to talk much longer, but I want to
assure you I'm about done. By state law,
we have to also show the impact tax
increase or I'm sorry, the tax impact
schedule. Um, that is a document that's
on the back table um for those who want
to get a copy of that and we have to
make it available to you. I'm showing
you here and uh so we've complied with
that state law requirement. We also have
to show the Davis County notice of tax
increases. This is every agency in the
county that is proposing a tax increase.
And again, state law says that we have
to make that available to you. This was
the only thing last year that tripped us
up on not making the tax increase. We
went through the full truth and
taxation. We submitted to the state,
submitted at the county, and they came
back and said, "Oh, sorry. You didn't
show this paper in your county in your
council meeting the night of the truth
and taxation." Well, we never received
it, so we couldn't share it.
>> Yeah. We hadn't received it from the
county in order to be able to share it.
>> And so, while we went through the
process, taxes were not increased in
woods cost last year, in spite of what
people were led to believe that we went
through the whole process. So, this
year, this is like the last thing that
we have to do to comply with the law. We
also, under a new law change, have to
make sure that everybody's aware of how
to participate. And so Annette and
others put this notice together that was
on the website and it tells how you can
participate here in person tonight. You
can participate uh virtually uh by
signing in on Zoom or if people want to
email, they can also send an email and
that's down here at the bottom of this
and you email to apwwoodscross
uh.gov. And then on the pamphlet there
was my email. Although due to a typo
error, it wasn't really my email. But if
somebody types that in and sends it, it
will come to me. We created the pseudo
email. So it will arrive. We've tested
that. So folks can participate by
speaking tonight uh submitting something
virtually or participating virtually
signing in on Zoom. Now everybody right
now is locked out. So, you cannot uh
join the meeting and speak until you
have um indicated to Sam and Curtis by
you're raising your hand on Zoom that
you want to participate. And then at the
end uh mayor of the inperson and the
virtual um we'll ask Annette if we've
received any written comments. We did
not anticipate to read those verbatim,
but they will be available to you and
all the citizens on a link where you can
read those. And because people may type
things in on the Zoom, we can't really
pull those off until after the meeting.
So, those will be added as we go back
and pull those off. They'll be added to
the written records. So,
I think I've about wore out. Oh, sorry.
Um, agenda item number three. Oh, it is.
It's your turn, mayor. Property tax
public hearing. I will turn the time
over to you.
>> Okay. Thank you, Bryce. Um, it's been
quite a process as the legislature put
new legislation in place a couple of
years ago and then strengthened it and
clarified to make sure that um that
we're complying with all of their
different requirements and checking all
of the boxes. We thought that we had
done that last year and there um was
that one piece that was missing because
it hadn't been provided to us. Um
anyway, let me go through kind of the
outline of how we're going to go through
our public hearing. We want to make sure
that anyone that wants to make a comment
has the ability to do that. Um so
first of all, let me just read this
statement. And this is something that
we've been doing now for
>> years three or four years now as a
council. Um you'll see it as you come. I
think it's on the podium still. Is our
old paper still on the podium?
>> It is.
>> Um we we at a conference that we had
attended um we listened to um a
presentation about the dignity index and
as we came back we felt that it was
important that as a council um and as a
community that uh that we abide by this
and um and treat each other with
respect. So let me just read this
statement. Woodscross City is committed
to civility. We strive to act and speak
with dignity, courtesy, and respect at
all times. And as participants, um we're
asking that you would join us and act
and speak accordingly. Um we are happy
to have each of you that would like um
to come and make your comments. We what
we'll do is we'll start with those that
are in person first and then once
everyone in person has had a chance then
we'll go to those that are um attending
electronically through Zoom and we'll
allow them the same process. So in order
to be on the record what we'd like you
to do is to come to the podium and if
you will state your name and the city
that you reside in. Um, we know that we
may have some that are from outside of
Woodscross and that's totally fine. Um,
but if you will do that for the public
record and then the the way that we're
going to do it, our ground rules are
going to be um you'll be limited to one
comment. We're not going to make it and
have people just keep coming back up the
same people. Each person will get their
chance. Um, we're going to limit those
to three minutes so that we're not to to
3 minutes each, not to a total of three
minutes because that would be really
fast. Um, to 3 minutes each just so that
we can keep it moving and so that we can
eventually go home and go to bed. But we
are prepared to stay as long as um we
have people that have not had their turn
that would like to make a comment.
Um, then we'll go to those that are
virtually. Um, again, Bryce has said
that if uh people that are online would
like to make a comment or even I guess
if you're here, if you don't want to
come up and make a comment, you're
welcome to send an email um to AP like
Apple
>> without the pool
>> AP woodscross.gov.
Um, and we'll get those at the end of
the meeting. My suggestion would also be
if you're going to make an electronic
comment through typing it out, um my
plan would be to have you again make one
comment, not a whole string of comments,
just so that we can keep them together
and keep them concise. Um I'd also just
request that we keep a good decorum. Um
we're here to listen. It will make it
easier for us to listen if everyone else
will listen while someone is at the
podium speaking. Um I I don't want
cheering and applauding and we'll we
will understand if you agree with that
person by what you say. Um we will not
interrupt. We will listen while each of
you speak. You may see us taking notes.
Um we're not ignoring you. We're just
writing down some notes so that we have
some um something to jog our memory as
we think about things. Um and then at
the end once we put and and again it's
not intended to be a dialogue back and
forth. This is your time to speak and
our time to listen. We'll take some
notes at the end of that. then I will
turn the time over to the council and if
they have um comments or clarification
or um anything from what they've heard
then we'll have that discussion. Um at
the end of that we do have the
possibility of an action item and that
action item would be to go ahead and
adopt um the certified tax rate and
approve the budget. Now, with that, as
Bryce mentioned multiple times, um we
have the ability to go up to that
percentage amount and the dollar amount
that was noticed. We can't go higher
than that. That's our ceiling, our cap
of what we can go to. That 99
what was it? 995,000 and some change. Um
we also have the ability um to go lower
than that. And so that will be things
that we consider as we listen, as we
hear comments, and as we have
discussion. There's also the possibility
that we may want to stew on it a little
bit. Um, not make a decision tonight. If
we get to the end of the night and after
our discussion, we're not feeling ready
to make our decision tonight, then what
we'll do is we will um have some
discussion about when we would do that.
We have to do it between now and the end
of August.
Sorry, I'm getting a little dry. Um, by
law, we have to have those um in place
by the end of August so that it can make
it through the process. So, we would
have another meeting two weeks from
tonight. So, I'm betting as long as we
would have a quorum that if we don't do
it tonight, we would do it on that
night. I can't say that for sure because
I haven't asked everyone on the council
if that works, but so we'll get to that
point. and um and kind of feel where
we're at as far as that decision tonight
and we will let you know before we close
the meeting. Bryce,
>> could I just add one thing? If you
choose not to adopt tonight, there would
not be another public hearing on correct
the 18th or whatever date you chose to
do that. This is the night for that.
>> That is correct. Tonight is the night
for public comment. Um there's the
possibility that if we don't do it
tonight, we would get back together as
the council at that future meeting. We
might have additional discussion, but we
would not solicit additional public
comment at that meeting. Tonight is the
night for that. That's the the reason of
the public hearing. So, did I miss
anything or does anyone on council want
any clarifications of that?
>> Great.
>> Okay. Who's our timer?
>> Chief, um,
>> how are we going to do this, Chief? when
they've got 15 seconds left, do you want
to make a motion,
something to where they know they're
coming up on the the the end of their
time?
>> I can do that.
>> Okay.
>> I just don't want somebody to get
flustered at the end because all of a
sudden we cut them off and um we want
you to be able to say what you'd like.
When we get to the online folks, we're
not going to just make it so that
everyone can take themselves off mute.
What we'll do is there's the ability to
>> raise your hand and we can explain more
about that when we get there. But for
those that raise their hand, then um
Curtis or Sam will go through and unmute
that individual and we'll um we'll let
you do that when we get to that point.
So,
>> okay, with that, we'll go ahead and open
the public hearing. if there's someone
that wants to get us. Dennis it looks
like is going to get us started. So, um
again, don't be offended if we're um if
we're up here taking notes.
Good evening, Woodscross City Council.
I'm Dennis Hooper. I live on 1250 West
for the last 34 years. And I would like
to quote some statistics from the US
Census Bureau that I looked up um
concerning Woodscross and why I'm
against this increase. Um the estimated
population of Woods Cross for 2026 is
11,432.
The last census in 2020, the population
was 11,371.
That's only an increase of 61 people.
The current rate of population growth
for Woods Cry City is 0.03
less than 1%.
Long-term estimates growth of 2% which I
think is really stretching it. Everybody
that would currently own horse property
or vacant property would have to sell to
a developer and that's not going to
happen. The poverty rate in Woods Cross
is 4.8%.
That means there's 549 people in this
city living in poverty and that's based
on the population estimate of 2026.
Woodscross properties the Woodscross
property tax rate is currently is the
highest in the county at 62%.
Um, according to Google,
this building originally was built in
1968 and the flyer says 1969.
So, it's either 57 years old or 57 58
years old. It's not 60 years old like
the journal that came out in the city
journal. And it's not um close to 60
years as in the newsletter.
Um, as per an article in the city
journal, preliminary cost for the new
city hall and the park was $33 million.
The newsletter says $18 million. Um, and
now in according to this meeting, it's
$25 million. That's really
not good information to put out there.
Woodscross is very is a very slow
growing city with a limited area for
development unless large land owners
decide to sell. Um yes, the police
department needs more space. I agree
with that. We have a large gathering
space in the public works building
already. We don't need another one. Um
Hogan Park is just fine. I feel Hogan
Park is just fine the way it is. If you
do anything as the drawing shows, it's
going to lose its current character.
The city paid a million dollars or more
for the Duna property on 1500 South next
to Mills Park. No development is
mentioned in this plan of that property.
>> Seconds.
>> 20 seconds.
>> Oh, okay. Um I was a convention delegate
for the county. I'm not going to mention
which property. the the came it came up
many many times about people that are in
fixed on fixed incomes that can't afford
tax increases and this would be one of
them and thank you.
>> Thanks Dennis.
» If you'd like you could bring the the
microphone to her.
>> I'll need to. Yeah.
>> Okay. Thank you.
Uh, I'm Ruth Payne.
I moved into Woodscross in 1955.
I have been involved with the city in my
younger years until I couldn't walk.
Anyway, I just want you to know that I
was here when this building went up. My
husband was on city council at the time.
The mayor was Walter Moss
and it was a thrill to see something go
up on this property.
I'm thrilled to see what the city does.
I've been pleased.
I have not been a great critic because
I've tried to be involved so that I, you
know, could learn from all of you. But I
just wanted you to know that I'm for the
tax increase. I want to see the building
improved.
I want to see Woods Cross improved. And
I think
where you want to build it is perfect on
this spot because it's it used to be the
middle of the city. Now it's we're on
the tail end.
But it it's fabulous. And I love the
park. I've worked with recreation. I've
worked with the kids.
I've loved the city. The police people
have been great. I have I just don't
have any complaints. I know that we have
to re uh we have to raise taxes. I know
we enjoy everything we get from it. And
I just just want you to know that there
are still people here
who admire and love this place
and and I'm for it. I hope that
people will appreciate.
You know, I've lived through a lot of
mayors and a lot of people and I don't
think we've ever had a bad one. So keep
it up you guys. I'm all for you.
>> Thanks
» She said throw me in jail.
I guess
» great comment.
>> My name is Greg Johnson. I've lived in
the city for 27 years. Um I'm totally in
favor of the um city center getting
redone and everything like that. I I
have some problems with the park.
However, um I noticed the park plan.
We're getting rid of the baseball park
and that kind of bothers me because my children had great memories. I see
people out here, you know, and like this
brother said back here, I don't think we
need to uh fix the park. I noticed too
the way it's configured, it has all
these bushes around in a circle and it
just
>> trees. What?
>> They're trees. They just look like
bushes.
>> I know.
I just Anyway, I just one other thing I
just want to say is that I I think I
would like to see the city center be
done one year and the park the other
because I'm retired and I'm going to fix
income with two disabled children and
these taxes are crazy for this year and
I didn't know if you could resubmit it
for like the next year and kind of split
it up so the citizens of the um of Woods
Cross don't have to pay an exorbitant
amount of taxes one year, you on. It's
kind of split up a little bit. So, thank
you.
>> Thanks, Greg. Greg.
>> Thank you.
» Hi. Um, I'm Ron James. I live here in
Woodscross. Um, I think that the
proposal as is should be tabled. And the
reason why I say that is because I
believe that this community deserves a
separate police department, their own
building, and to be able to organize all
that, have the space and everything
because I I do agree it's totally
overcrowded, but I think there should be
a separation there. And I think that's
it's long overdue. Uh most communities
do have that with their judicial area
and police department separated that
way. Um, I also believe that, you know,
prior proper planning prevents piss poor
performance. And that's it's an army
anacronism some people might understand.
U but I don't think we've planned
properly. Uh meaning that this is not a
surprise. We know we've been busting at
the seams for how long? And this is not
a surprise. So now all of a sudden it's
bam, we're going to hit the tax lo the
tax code higher and we're going to do
all these things when incrementally we
could have increased those taxes
yeartoear to build the war chest that we
would have needed to do these things we
want to do now. And I just think that
the planning just was not there. I think
we need to reboot this thing, understand
what the priorities are, and the
priorities based on what I've seen with
the presentation all lie in the people
that serve and protect this community.
And we should keep that separated and we
should get give them the every
opportunity to have the facilities they
need. And that's my take on it. Thank
you.
>> Thanks, Ron.
My name's Leanne Hansen. I live in a
townhouse.
Um, I am not a tree hugger, but I could
become one.
I think this needs to be divided in
half. I think the building should be a
separate issue from the park.
just re rearding the park. It just seems
like everything you're doing is tearing
up what's already there and then moving
the same things a little different
place. We currently have parking and a
pavilion and pickle ball, basketball,
restrooms, playgrounds, and we're going
to keep all that stuff. We're just going
to move it all in a different place,
which is just a lot of money. And we're
going to lose baseball. Like Greg said,
we're going to lose a lot of shade and
we're going to lose all of that open
grass that's right there. I think if we
have to rebuild a building, I think it
should be on the location where we are
right now. And I think the police, if
they need another building, it should be
somewhere else. I like this city. I like
this park the way it is. There's big
trees here. There's a pavilion that you
can park close to and you can have
shade. There's shade on that pavilion
right now. I think that's one of the
biggest things about a park or the
trees. And this plan is just going to
tear them all down and plant new ones,
which will be great in 20 years or 50
years when we're all gone.
And I know that some of these trees on
this side are going to be retained
hopefully, but they're going to be on
the front side of the building. I mean,
people aren't going to be using the
front side of the building for any of
their activities. That's just going to
be an ornamental part.
Also, the role of city government is
messy. Your job is
garbage and sewage and exploding
refineries and potholes and nasty things
like that. And a lot I know Bryce didn't
mention any of this tonight, but in the
article in the paper and in other
promotional
um literature, you know, they're talking
about Easter egg hunts, pumpkins in the
park, Santa Claus, baby showers,
weddings, birthday parties, even
concerts. Please don't do concerts here.
This is way too close to where people
live. I think the city needs to focus on
city things. build a building that's
adequate to city needs. You're proposing
a 46% tax increase. And these are all
the people that showed up. This space is
>> what?
>> This space is adequate for what we need
for city functions. And if we can use city
buildings for other extraneous things,
that's fine. But we should not build the
building for things like Easter egg
hunts and birthday parties and wedding
receptions and other extraneous things.
Um, also Utons are dumb.
Utons will vote for any tax. It's your
job to protect us from ourselves. Thank
you.
>> Thanks, man.
Hi, Michelle Hooper. Uh, 1250 West. Um,
as Dennis said, we've lived here for 34
years. So, we watched
almost all of the growth west of us
except for Duna's house and one little
tiny house by the airport. Everything
else was built up since we moved here. I
have always said when we retire, I
wanted to move somewhere that was really
country. I love the feel of our town.
Um, we really really missed our huge
trees on 1500 in front of Kahun and
Peters and you know those all went down
because we widened the road which was
wonderful but we miss our huge trees.
We would really miss these wonderful
trees that are here at the park.
Um, but we are a big supporter of the
city. I worked as a crossing guard for
12 years. My children were all in city
council. Two of them were mayors. We
love and support the city. It is not
this is not saying anything bad about
the council or the city, but
this is something I feel that should be
put to all of the citizens
um decision making. It needs to be on
the ballot in November to see if the
city wants to go into this much debt,
the 46% increase. It's massive for one
year. Um, it should be on the bond or on
the bill on the on the election in
November as a bond issue. Um,
so, oh, and then, um, yes, I agree that
the police department, they are bursting
at the seams. I've been back in the back
two rooms eons ago. Um, and yes, they
are small and I understand. So, put them
in a separate building. There's an empty
building just down 8th west on the way
to the freeway. Everybody knows that
huge building that I don't even think
has ever even had anything in it since
it was built. Um, that's there. But yes,
put them in a separate building. The
park is wonderful the way it is. It's
going to lose so much of its character
when all these trees are gone.
Um, yes, it'll take 30 years for the new
trees to grow because we've done that
and it does. It takes almost 30 years
for trees to grow and become huge and
wonderful and shady.
Put it to the citizens on the election.
Every single citizen.
>> Um, thank you for everything you do for
us. We are grateful for your time. It's
a lot of time. Thank you.
>> Thanks, Michelle.
Hi there. My name is Leola Mickelson. I
live on Current Drive. Have done for 68
years.
Um, the one thing I think you need to
consider, those of us that are on
retired income, which is not much,
believe me,
this is a huge raise for us. And I think
you really need to consider the amount.
It's like double of what we've been used
to.
So I think this is something that should
be considered
because we can't afford it.
>> Thank you.
>> Thanks.
I'm R Cleverly. I live in Woodscross.
We've lived here for 20 plus years.
I'm not totally against needing a new
building, whether it's a police
department all on its own or a combined
building, but I think community space is
not a need. It's a want and we need to
take care of our wants at another time
and not at a percent a 47% tax increase
that will never go away. You're going to
put that on us and that will stay on us
for the rest of our time that we're
here. You guys never lower taxes. you
only raise them, they go up. On top of
the 47%, you are receiving another 3%
increase because of property value
increases that the county doesn't say is
an increase. Even though they're
increasing our value on our homes,
another 3% on top of what you're
getting. So, you're going to get 3%
increase in our tax, our property tax,
just based on the fact that they're
increasing the values of our homes. And
then you want to add 47% on top of it
for a building that half of it is want
not need. I understand the need some of
the needs that we yeah the building is
old but I don't think all old buildings
are bad but there are some needs and I
get it we need either a police
department on its own or a new building
that will house all that but we don't
need all the community center part and I
don't think we need to redo the park
either. So it is overly being done and
that is like I said those are wants that
are being done not all needs.
>> Thanks Rhett
» Margie Shank. I live just a block from
here. Uh my house taxes have gone up
$200 more this year.
And um Colorado 70 and over you don't
have to pay house taxes. And wouldn't
that be lovely here? Also, the I'd live
on this street here, 1500. I mentioned
to the police chiefs years ago, if you
ticketed those race car drivers from the
stop sign or the light on in 3 to 5
years, you'd pay for this new building.
It's ridiculous the way people speed.
And I'm just surprised that someone and
children haven't been killed because one
time a truck lost its pup and hit my big
cherry tree and five kindergarteners had
just walked by and that was just an
accident. But here again, those of us
who have homes that are paid for aren't
going to be able to live there because
we can't afford the house taxes. So, I
wish you'd adopt what Colorado does when
you're uh a certain age. No more house
tax so that you can live comfortably
till you die. And uh let's see. Another
thing I have a problem with is these
weeds across the street. That's a real
problem to my home and we've been trying
to work on it. And of course, the church
owns it and they were a no-show Tuesday
for Courtbait. Now, maybe there's a
volunteer system here of somebody who
can cut down four and five feet weeds.
It's it's a danger to my home and every
summer we go through that. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
» My name is Spencer McBride, resident of
Woodscross.
Generally speaking, I'm not a fan of
more taxes, but I also try to take a
long view and I think about the
residents of the city who agreed to pay
more taxes when Mills Park was built,
when this building was built,
when Hogan Park was built.
And it meant more taxes then,
but it meant
a better community long term.
And I I think that matters. I I think
two things can be true at once.
That it's hard to pay more. We feel it
in our budgets. It hurts.
And if we do it for the right things,
it's worth it. So, I for one am in favor
of this plan. I was part of the citizen
group that was asked from time to time
over the last couple years, their
opinions, and their thoughts. And what I
saw was a city council that was taking
its time, that was thinking this
through, that was not acting hastily.
And I appreciate you guys for doing
that. And I I hope as much as I won't
enjoy
paying a little more.
Um
I think I will benefit from it as a
community member now. But I also think
of the people 20, 30 years from now who
are enjoying better spaces.
Um, a safer, better police department
because we take care of our officers and
give them the facilities they need. Not
just to do their job, but to do it with
comfort and a sense of appreciation by
the citizens that they protect.
People 20 years from now may be asked to
raise taxes. They certainly will. I hope
they will think of us and what we were
willing to give for a better community,
not just for me, but for the people who
live here 20, 30 years from now. So,
that's why I'm in favor of this.
>> Thanks, Spencer.
>> Thanks,
» Tyler Parkin. I live in Valentine
Estates. Um, council mayor.
Residents deserve a complete transpar
transparency picture of the city's
financial decision before asking to take
on a greater tax burden. A property tax
increase should not be considered
without first reviewing all the spending
and ensuring that the taxpayers's
dollars are being used as efficiently
and responsibly as possible.
Understanding the full cost of the
government. One of the part of one part
of this decision is employees
compensation. Bryce, you purposely left
out the bud the wages. You alone since
you've gotten here, $21,000 is your
salary with the $36,000 benefit package.
The police chief, $147,000
with an $80,000 691 benefit package. On
top of that, $227,000
total. We are paying benefits for the
police chief. Public works director
143,000 with benefits package of 62,625
HR risk management 161,878
community development director 157,968.
This is not meant to criticize these
individuals. I understand that they need
to make a a living, but I believe these
wages are excessive for the size of our
city.
At the same time, residents are being
asked to approve a significant property
tax. The city is moving forward with the
major capital project
which is as spoken tonight, Hogan Park
and the city hall. I'm not against a new
city hall,
but it needs to be within reason. And I
believe that the citizens need to have a
vote. I believe that you guys have
started a good process, but I think it
needs to be tabled. Let the citizens
vote on that. We don't need a new park.
looking at the pictures and I agree that the police department needs
a little bigger needs a bigger facility
for their operations to handle safely.
The citizens can't afford this long
term. This this tax will never go away
as go away as citizens have stated. We
will have tax after tax after tax.
>> 30 seconds.
I really strongly ask you and consider
tableabling this to the ballot in
November.
>> Thanks, Tyler.
» Greg Morris, uh, Wood Cross resident.
I just want to, uh, come to this at a
different perspective.
Um, I think we haven't analyzed.
So, I'm I only come here once in a
while. I I come here as a citizen to for
fun activities, whatever. I'm not here
on a day-to-day basis, so I don't know
the operations as far as what goes on
where. I think we need to audit
the areas being used or all the offices
or all the spaces being used in this
building.
um
are are they every single day are they
in use and if not can we somehow make a
alternate use for them? Also um another
thing can can the
police
uh use storage in an alternate location?
Does that have to be within the police
station? Um and can that area be used
for something else? Um, I'm not against
uh expanding the police station,
separating it. I think we need to look
at different perspectives to save money
um and pursue our needs as a city
instead of our wants.
And
I think I think by looking from
different perspectives like that um
we'll be able to
uh be able to use space like right now
we're in a large room here but there's
also on the other side of the wall a
large room. Can that be one? Um that's
another option. Um can we put that
separation in and make one room instead
of two? I I don't know what all the
plans are. I haven't looked super far
details, but but we need to analyze what
we're using in space and and what is
used
on a day-to-day basis instead of just
once a week types things.
>> Thanks, Craig.
Uh Josh Child. I'm a resident of
Woodscross. Just live right here east of
the park. Um grateful for the
opportunity to come together. Grateful
for a council and for a community where
public comments are welcomed and thought
through. Um I am I'm always supportive
of positive change. I think that there's
a great need for replacement of this
building. I agree with some of the
comments that have been made um about
how are we using the current park space
and are we considering trying to leave
things as they are or make fewer
adjustments and less of an overhaul. Um,
but I wasn't here for all of the
conversations that were had there. I
trust each of you. Uh, you have my
support and I trust that those
conversations have been had and if they
haven't, then have them. Um, and and
think about them. If they've been had, I
trust that they're there and there's a
reason we're doing it. Um, the the
overall takeaway for me and and I'd like
to just be a little bit critical, but I
think there's a good reason for it. To
me, there's a lot of information
and there's big numbers being thrown
around. I work a a day job in finance
and in banking. I work with big numbers.
I understand that there's a lot going
around and there's many revenue sources
and expenses. There were many, many, errors in the data that was both
sent out and presented this evening.
Formulas that didn't tie out and things
that don't math and numbers that
changed. Um, not again, I'm just saying
how I feel when when the brochure that
comes out with the utility bill doesn't
fold on the picture line. and it and
it's got typos on an email address. I I
feel that we need to put more thought
and and time into what is being
presented to to the citizens. As
somebody who I I would consider myself
efficient and proficient at reviewing
the data, and it was very unclear to me.
Um in addition, I would add I'm grateful
that the city has put resource into
making the website a little bit more
usable. I appreciate that a lot. Um, the
generation that I'm a part of, not that
any of you are not, while they may not
be, but the rest are,
the generation that I'm a part of finds
things on social media and finds things
in advertising. The city page, the
Facebook, and the Instagram don't
include the brochure. They don't include
the data that was sent out. They don't
market to us in that way. Had I not
opened my utility bill or worked closely
with Wall-E, I may have missed this. And
I'm grateful for the opportunity to
come, but we need to make sure the
exposure is to the people who are coming
to Woods Cross and carrying it forward
and that they have an opportunity to get
that data in a clear and concise way in
a way that they consume it.
I think I think there's great
opportunities for the city as a whole,
not just in this matter, but to cater
more to the way that people consume
information and to turn away maybe some
of the efforts and energy being put into
what has been done. Um, because I think
that a lot of again the steps that
you've likely taken were missed by many
of us because we weren't exposed to them
along the way and excited as you have
been as you've seen these plans come
together because I believe they're well
thought and I do support them.
Thanks, Josh.
Uh my name is Dio Diego. Uh live on 875
West. Uh been a resident since 97. Quite
a while.
>> Will you just give us your last name
also?
>> Cardinus.
>> Okay. So, um I think just looking at
these plans, I I think there's a lot of
communication that hasn't been um put
out there. Um I agree with a lot of uh
my fellow residents
as far as um wants and needs. Um you
know, the park is a great thing. I see
baseball out here again, which I haven't
seen. I've seen softball, there's a
soccer field there. You know, there's a
lot of green space here that gets used.
Um, you know, I drive up and down 1500
all the time. See kids and practices
being put out here in the grass area and
so forth. Baseball practices, soccer
practices, so forth. Uh, pickle ball,
that's not that old of a court. We want
to tear it up and move it
300 ft. I mean, how much what's the cost
of that? You know, I agree the police
department does need probably its own
space. You know, we built a public works
building down there. Why was that not
considered
in that? Or maybe it was and and I'm
speaking out of terms, so I apologize if
I am, but it just seems like the
planning needs to be a little bit
better. You know, the communication
needs to be a lot better. I mean, 40%
increase and our taxes. I got family
that lives in here, retired family that
I don't know how they can absorb that,
you know, with groceries, utilities,
everything, all the other taxes we have
to pay, you know. So, I just just
consider all that in your guys'
decision, you know, going forward, you
know, and and have better communication
because it sounds like there's a lot of
people in this room that are confused.
33 million, 40 million, 20 million.
That's a lot of money to ask for the
citizens of of this city to pay. That's
it's a burden on a lot of us. I have
neighbors, retired, fixed incomes, 80
years old. I don't know how they can do
it.
So, just consider all that stuff.
Consider the green space that we already
have, the mature trees, the pickleball
court that's already here, the
basketball court, the baseball field,
the playground, the foyer, all that
stuff. Just consider it all. It's great.
I don't know. Revamp this building. Try
to do the best you can. I I know old
buildings are hard. I mean, I live in an
old house.
>> I'd love to have $180,000 to revamp my
house,
>> but we have to be responsible with that.
I just can't go and do it, you know. So,
just be responsible.
>> Thanks, Diego.
» Hey there, everybody. David Lewis. I
also live here in Woodscross. I uh want
to do a quick acknowledgement to say
thank you, mayor, um for not saying
probably my number one pet peeve when
there's ever a public hearing, which is
don't repeat what other people have
said. You know, we all have a voice and
it's it's important and uh hearing it
more often helps show the seriousness of
it. So, thank you. Thank you for doing
that. I've been way too many of them
where they say that. Um, I was also on
the citizen group that was asked to do
the parks and and to look at the
different things and we we what we were
asked is come up with ideas of things
that you'd like to see. There's no
discussion of of money and we knew that
at the time and come up with, you know,
where where would they maybe want to be
and we kind of refined it from there.
Now we have the costs and I think that
the tone has changed and the tone should
change because 46%
um while you none of you are probably
actually targeting that number that's
still that that's crazy and um you know
it's I like the some of the ideas that
have been said that I didn't even think
about on on splitting
uh you know the park and the building
and we probably should look at that. I
would say that we should also look at
some private solutions um for bridging
some of the gaps. I would not be in
favor of moving forward with the
proposal as we have it both with the
building and with the park. I would say
that we target next year for the
building and that we do a small or
modest tax increase this year. We all I
think every person in here knows
inflation's real and we get that t that
costs go up. However,
these huge spikes are crazy and we
talked about this a couple years ago
when we did the adjustment for the taxes
for the police and we said I we haven't
raised taxes in quite a while but we
have to now so we can be competitive and
then we'll just try to have it be even
kill and here we are again at 46%. So,
let's I would encourage you to please
just do a just do a small modest one now
that can increase some of our revenues,
help some of that war chest as we
further refine the plan and then next
year we can try to execute on that
without the park and then we can look at
the park. I'm not in totally sold on
that we need need a new park but um with
that
30 seconds.
>> Thank you. I would just like to expound
when I say that we look at private
solutions for bridging the gap. Um I'm I
don't know all the rules and laws
necessarily around securing the
evidence, but there's a lot of storage
areas that are very secure and there's
probably some sort of private industry
and that can free up a lot of the space.
It's those sorts of ideas that I've
heard and that I was also thinking about
that I think that we should be able to
explore. So, uh, mayor and council, I'd
ask you to please on the last item table
this until your next meeting to choose
the tax mattest and then next year for
our full one. Thank you.
>> Thanks, David.
» My name is Linda Snar and I'm just a new
resident. Just lived here two years. So,
I'm I'm new. I don't feel like I should
say much and I really appreciate though
being able to be here and hear
everything that's been said and and I
agree that some of the things in the
numbers had been confusing. I moved from
a nice little city to the south of you
lived there for 43 years in
Taylor'sville. Nice little farming area.
Had nice piece of land, beautiful home.
Now with the demise of my husband, I'm
here. But I'm just saying I agree with
so many people that maybe we should look
at different resources and I I since I'm
new, I did feel though like I should
call my neighbors as many as I could
because um I was when we had our
elections back here, I was um nominated
because I was about the only one that
showed up as my precinct chair. And I
couldn't believe the lack of apathy
because where I lived, we had people
show up. But I just think I live in a
beautiful neighborhood that Mountain
View Estates, it's not been around that
many years, I think. So my neighbor
right over here, Valentine. Um, and I
just agree with these people that maybe
I support the police. I love the police.
I see you driving through my
neighborhood through the park in our
Mountain View estates and I'm so
grateful for that. But um so I want to
support the police and the needs that
they have, but I just don't want
government to do too many things for us.
I think it should be
um just our our neighborhoods and our
churches and our you know other things
that support some of these different
activities and and private groups. So,
um I just wish you'd look at this also
and make sure that we're doing the right
thing. That's it. Thanks.
>> Thank you.
» Hello. Uh my name is Evan Carson. I've
lived here for two years, give or take
two years. Um so I'm kind of new to all
this. Uh just wanted to say that uh I I
do think there are some things that
definitely need to be upgraded like the
police need more space. Absolutely. Um
but yeah, adding all this these changes
to the park is a lot of unnecessary
stuff. As has been said many times
before, just like shifting the pickle
ball courts a few hundred feet seems
like a massive uh waste of money. Um,
also losing these massive shade trees
would be uh devastating. Um, as I've
looked forward to uh uh raising kids
with like such a a a park with such
large shade trees and there's it's just
not as fun with the small trees, you
know. Um,
and uh yeah, it just seems like a a
large waste to uh basically be
rebuilding the park more or less how it
is. Obviously, there's other upgrades
and stuff, but um yeah, and as has been
said before, the uh having space for
community events uh I think would be
good. Um it would necessitate there
being community events, and maybe there
are that I'm just not aware of, but um
last I checked on the website, the
calendar hadn't been updated and had
just showed nothing for months on end.
Uh maybe that's been fixed since, but um
yeah. And then uh um what was I gonna
say? Oh was mentioned earlier that the
increase to wages
doesn't really matter much because it's
just a small percentage increase which
on paper seems fine but hearing uh the
actual totals from uh the gentleman
earlier uh is very concerning to uh not
disclose that publicly and just say oh
it's just a small percentage increase
when it is such a large uh total number.
Um, so these are just some concerns I've
had. Um, but thank you all for what you
do and I appreciate what you're doing.
Thank you.
>> Thank you.
>> Thanks, Evan.
All
right. My name is Cole Chickens and I
have lived in Once Cross for 25ish
years. Um, I wish you guys could talk.
Since Julie is my wife, I've kind of had
an inside look at this. The big trees
that we've got and Sam, you can tell me,
have got a disease. They got a boar in
them right now and they're going to have
to come out regardless.
So, I wish you guys could say that
because everybody wants the trees, but
they're kind of it's kind of a moot
point at this time just cuz they're
>> going to fall over if we don't take them
out. Um,
so I did a little bit of research. I
freaking hate taxes. Like really bad.
Um, I do see a reason to increase them.
Um, I'm going to lay some of this on the
previous administration if you want to
pull call it that. Um, I did some
looking since I've moved in. Um, between
well I did 20 years but between 06 and
21 there was only three tax increases in
those years and then since 22 we've
tried to catch up on how this is
working. So the 40some% increase
probably we should have increased it
quite a while ago and there's nothing we
can do about that. So I understand why
the increase needs to happen right now.
Um I'm very much in favor of changing
buildings. Um the police have needed
more room for years and years at this
point and I'm very grateful to the
people that have stuck around long and
you know for a while live or dealing
with crappy um situation over there. Um,
so anyway, but just as a thing, I mean,
if it's really um a difference of like
$15 a month, I'm willing to skip out on
a McDonald's Happy Meal for my 15 bucks.
Um, so anyway, I am in favor. Um, like I
said, I've had a lot of time to think
about this and look over everything. Um,
so yeah, I appreciate you guys.
>> Thanks, Cole.
>> Thanks. Your flashlight's on, dear.
Thank you.
>> Oh yeah,
sorry about that.
I'm Robert Stall and I live in Witch
Cross here. I've been here forever. I've
lived down on 1250 for 23 years and then
other places
also. Um,
I really appreciate what the police do.
They deserve to have what they need to
uh be successful and have the space they
need. And I don't know if the answers to
put them in a separate building, maybe
down where you guys purchased Luna's
property
and then kind of wait on some of this
other. But first, we're talking $18
million for renovating it. And I
understand that old buildings are a real
pain in the neck to redo certain things
because you're working around things
that's in the way or whatever. And then
they're saying 13 to 14 million to build
new.
Now they're up to 33,
but is that actually going to go up to
50? Maybe.
And
it's I got two kids that serve on the
Woodscross Council and I really
appreciate it and they really love it
and you guys do a good job. Um,
is it uh, you know, 47%
actually 46.8% is what the tax rate
would be. Is it possible to apply that
to your city bills, reduce them
or leave them the same? But like other
members have said that taxes always go
up and you probably do need certain
increases at times, but you know that
percent at this time is kind of high.
And they said there's like 500 and
some people that's living in poverty.
And you might could say that would be
all of us because we don't have the
luxury of having a government job making
200,000 a year or 150. It'd be really
nice to make that much and everybody
that would get up would probably say,
"Yeah, let's do it." Or if we had the
money in savings to build it, it
wouldn't even be a question. People
just, "Yeah, go ahead. If it's not going
to cost us anything, build it. Um,
the evidence rooms and that looks like
they're pretty full, but
>> 30 seconds.
>> If there's a place they could separate
them, I agree with that. But new is
always nice, but is it the right choice?
Thank you.
>> Thanks, Robert.
Charlene Chogy, Woodscross.
Um, I agree with so many of the things
that they have said and I was looking at
the average market value of our houses
and we are the lowest except for the
city of Clearfield on your list and we
have this huge tax increase. So, that
doesn't quite balance out. But the other
point is when we were talking about the
reasons for a new building, most of it
had to do with the police department.
Hardly anything was said about the rest
of the building other than having a
children's area. And so I'm I think that
it would be a wiser use of our money to
have a separate building for the police
as some people have said. and you have
other land for that so we don't have to
take away from the parks down 15 South
for instance you spend a lot of money
for that land too and so there are other
places you could put it that would still
be convenient to but the police
definitely needed a place but I didn't
hear very many reasons for the rest of
this building the other thing is that
you have had in in Woodscross city a
mandate to have parks close to people
within a mile of everyone. And now we're
kind of trying to make this a smaller
area so that we can have a bigger
building here. So I'm thinking maybe
this needs to be rethought out about
what are the needs of Woodscross.
Is it the whole big building or is it
just for the police? What about the
parks? Are we going to decrease the
parks or is that still one of our
mandates like Tree City Woodscross? My
neighbor took out our two front trees
and you said put them back. We are Tree
City and now we want to kind of decrease
the park, decrease here in this area.
And so I'm thinking we need to kind of
rethink what are the needs. Definitely
the police need to have better
facilities. They probably are so out of
compliance with everything that we
probably
couldn't even have a police department.
We should go with the rest of the
county, but we don't want to do that.
I'm presuming. So I think that we need
to rethink this also because our taxes
would increase so much compared with
other cities with our same uh um market
uh value of our houses. So I think the
police need a new place but I don't
think we want to decrease our park area.
Thank you.
» Thank you Charlene.
Is there anyone else here attending the
meeting in person that would like to
make a comment before we close it off
here and open it to those mind.
Okay, then we'll um be done with those
that are here in person and we'll switch
over to those that are participating
online. Looks like we've got a hand up.
Casey O'Hara,
Curtis, if you can
Thank you. Can you hear me?
>> Yes.
>> My name is Casey O'Hara. Um, I have
lived on Sorto Drive for almost 24
years. Um, I really appreciate the first
gentleman who spoke and shared some
statistics about our community and um,
how many people we have in our community
that live in poverty. We also had
multiple people um with more advanced
years that have mentioned how
unaffordable it is to raise taxes for
them because of limited income. Um I
think that we need to enable everyone as
others have mentioned to have a vote on
this and take this to the ballot in
November. I think that would be only
fair and very important to get feedback
from all of the citizens of the um city
and the community. Um I also am
concerned about some of the things that
I've heard today. Um
from the pictures that were shared, yes,
it looks like uh our police force needs
some additional space. Um,
but that felt like it was very much the
focus of a new building and it wasn't
really building a community building.
Um, which is unfortunate. So, if if
we're building something for our
community to improve and get better and
enable more activities, which one
gentleman mentioned, we don't even see
those on the calendar anymore. So, how
do we know what's happening? Um, I think
that we could improve our community and
reduce the need for all that storage for
evidence. Uh, and maybe we could more
proactively help our community get
better without, you know, needing
evidence storage to make it better. Um,
I am concerned about redoing a park
that's recently been renovated with new
pickle ball courts and the the um
playground. it feels like a real waste
of community money and all of our taxes
to redo something that's relatively
recently been done um just to put it
somewhere else. So, I think we need to
be more efficient with what we're doing,
think through what we're doing a little
bit more. Uh, and the one other thing
that I heard that actually caused me a
lot of concern was the mention of all of
the potential
um fallout that the police department
could be experiencing from storing drugs
or whatever um other contaminants and it
would be better to vent that out of the
building. So, if we are going to vent
contaminants out of the building into a
very dense, populated neighborhood,
maybe the police department needs to
live somewhere else where we're not
contaminating our contaminating our
neighborhood so that our police
department isn't contaminated.
» Again, I think this should go to the
ballot and every citizen should have an
opportunity to provide feedback. Thank
you.
>> Thanks, Casey.
Next. Next I show Brian Crawford.
» Hey um Brian Crawford, socross resident.
Um I don't know what what I have to say
has much bearing. It sounds like the
decisions already been made based on all
the promotional materials, but um my my
thoughts are pretty simple. It doesn't
sound like we have the money to do it.
Uh, so it shouldn't be approved, but you
know, if we if we save up the money,
let's do it in the future. Uh, I also
remember the bountiful city hall debacle
and you know, they ended up spending
more by remodeling their original city
hall, but at least they listened to
their cit citizens and didn't go forward
with the proposal. That's just all I
have to say.
>> Thanks, Brian.
Is there anyone? Oh, there's another
one. Alicia.
Hello. My name is Alicia Ditto. Um, I
have only lived in Woodscross for about
one year, so I can't speak for all of
the history things that everyone has
said, but I have four young kids, and I
just want to say that they love Hogan
Park. they would be very sad to see. I
mean, I'm sure if they saw the changes,
they would love it, but they don't need
it. So, I guess I'm echoing what a lot
of people have said today that the park
is fine and the kids don't need a
change. So, that's all I had to say.
>> Thank you, Alicia.
Melanie Crawford.
» Hi. Um I'm Melanie Crawford, a resident
of Woods Cross and I've lived here um my
entire life, 33 years. Um I grew up
going to Hogan Park before it was
redone. I love um the park. I love the
city. That's why I chose to move here um
with my family now. I have four kids and
just like Alicia had mentioned, my kids,
my three boys um cuz my fourth is a
baby. My three boys love Hogan Park.
They beg to go all the time. Um I am in
support of a new city building. I'm okay
with that. I understand the needs of the
police department. Um, redoing a
building is cheaper than renovating. Um,
from what I've read and what I've seen,
um,
I have concerns about redoing the park
just like a lot of other people. Um,
I don't think it needs to be done or at
least done the way that it's planned so
far. Um, I have concerns about adding
water features and just moving a bunch
of things around. Um, and so I guess I
would like to see um if we could like
change plans on the park. I don't I know
it costs money every time you kind of
you change plans and um look at
different options, but for me um being a
mother of young kids who already love
the park, it just seems unnecessary to
have to redo a park that's already great
um and a park that's already loved by so
many kids. And um but I also I
understand that sometimes it's not
possible when you're redoing a building
to not impact the park. So, I understand
it's really hard and it's a hard line.
Um, I I just also would ask you to
consider what's needed and what's more
of wants because I don't think the kids
need a different park. And that's those
are my thoughts, but I appreciate your
time and um all that you guys do for us
cuz I know that you spend a lot of time
um trying to make the city better and
taking care of things so that we don't
have to worry. So, um thank you for your
time.
Thanks, Melanie.
Our next one on here is just listed as
iPhone.
Oh, they can unmute.
Yeah. Whoever is listed as iPhone with
your hand up, if you um hit your hit the
mute button and take yourself off mute,
you can go ahead and talk.
Mine says they're joining. So, don't
know if yours shows that.
» They're working on it.
>> Oh,
» yeah. There there were
Let me refresh my
» Sorry, I had a technological uh
difficulty there.
>> That's okay.
>> Uh my name is McKenna Child. I'm a
resident of Woodscross. Um, and I have
really enjoyed this whole commentary
that's been happening. I agree with a
lot of what's been said. I am also a
young mom with little kids who adore
Hogan Park. It is their their top park
in in in the area. Um, and I don't love
the idea of complicating the park. I
like how simple it is. Um, and it it has
baseball fields and it has a playground
and it has grass to play in. Um, and I I
think that's perfect. I don't feel a
real need to change the park. Obviously,
when you're building a new building and
you got to move some things around, but
I don't feel the need for a water
feature or I would like to keep as many
trees as possible. I I think all that's
good. Um, but I am in full support of
anything the police department needs,
anything city hall needs. I don't think
we need to add anything on for um like
public events. I I have a hard time
putting a lot of money into something
that's six times a year as opposed to,
you know, the rest of the year where
people are mostly just playing at the
park. Um, I would also love to see sort
of a a part of the police station go
across the railroad tracks. My children
go to Legacy Elementary and I have
concerns about safety over there because
if there was an event, the police have
to get across the train tracks. Um, so I
would love for them to have a home base
across there as well. Um, and I think
that's everything. Thank you you guys.
>> Thank you.
Is there anyone else attending uh online
that would like to make a comment?
I don't see any my hands.
Yeah, I don't see I don't see any other
hands. We'll give them just a second
if you don't know where to find it. On
mine, I know each platform is just a
little different, but on mine, if you
click on the react button kind of down
in the middle at the bottom, then it
gives you the ability to raise your And
okay, it doesn't look like we're getting
any movement there. Um, with that we
will go ahead and close the public
hearing.
Um,
yes. I have a request to take just a
quick break for just a second.
» A motion to saunter. Is that the
>> If if you need if you need to take a
restroom break, now is your chance.
>> There you go. That's what the guys
downtown call it. We'll uh we'll we'll
take a five minute break to just make it
so people can
>> take care of that if they need to
» live comments.
That
>> was my first counselor.
>> Josh
gives me a bad time all the time.
child. Childhood
doesn't mean that
That's
actually
when they like
whatever.
I guess
it was the trailer park
intended to be next.
» So I have two important plats. One's in
one.
>> Thank you.
>> Oh good.
Can we just give it to them?
» Just me.
That's what I'm talking
She said
please.
for
sorry
Mr.
Say
I can't
really
It's cold.
I just
» since
I almost
like
>> No, I appreciate it. really great. It's
my No, she's like I'm out of
>> So now my
>> That's okay.
>> I appreciate it. It is
» pretty comfortable right here. He must
be right in the
>> right corner.
>> Yeah. Well, he's also got an officer
standing there. They and they warmed up
some cocaine water and
>> so we'll see.
>> All right, let's finish this.
>> Well, we got to wait for Oh, Wally and
Jim are just out here all
>> Yeah, thanks.
>> Stop talking.
» Some of us want to go home.
I know. I turned it up. Do you want to
turn back one more? Turn off.
>> Okay.
» Uhhuh. Good to know. It just got holes.
>> Kill you. Yeah, the mayor just controls
that.
>> All right.
» Where's Curtis
outside?
>> Are we Are we still recording over
there, Sam?
>> Okay.
Thank you for giving us just a
minute to refresh ourselves. Um, thank
you for all of the comments. Thanks for
those of you that have stuck around.
It's uh um we we appreciate the
comments. We go through this process um
to be able to listen. Um I think that we
all
um in one way or another
ran for city council and for um elected
office to to listen and to try to
represent those that have elected us.
And um so we I'm I'm appreciative of the
comments. I think I can say that for all
of the council.
>> Um anyway,
>> comments discussion.
>> Well, did you want to ask Annette if
there were any
>> uh comments?
>> Were there any uh mailed in emailed in
comments?
Damian, what's
>> Glendel?
Yeah,
» there was an email that came to the
whole council. There was an email that
came to the whole council from
>> a couple of days ago
>> agenda and
>> the there's that's a document that I'll
be adding to when we save the chat.
>> Yeah,
>> I'll put that on there. Checked both my
and Bryce's emails just in case they
come to him during the meeting and we
have not received any others
>> that you re received one Rachel and the
council members did that we did not. Is
that what I heard you saying? We got one
>> shipping
>> a couple of days ago. Someone that said
that they weren't be able to attend.
>> Would you like me to forward that to
you?
>> And Bryce as well or just you?
>> Thank you.
>> Yeah, you can. Okay, done.
>> I'll get it in there.
>> Thank you.
>> Very.
>> So, yeah, I don't I don't have
>> any others that have come to to my own
Woodscross email address. So, I did um I
did close the public comment period one
before we went to our but I mean I can
do it again.
>> No, I just we cover all of these bullet
points.
>> Yeah. But
>> um uh just to make sure that we've
officially closed the public hearing. Um
okay. Does uh
clarify anything?
>> Absolutely. The way it's written this
year is that they may email comments or
chat comments
>> through the end of the meeting.
>> End of the meeting. Okay.
>> So, we won't close that part of it.
>> So, while you're taking it comment in
person or online, it is closed. That's
>> they can still do it through the through
the email address.
>> Okay. Thank you.
Um,
» can I give a suggestion?
>> Sure.
>> I think uh we you know there's um
usually when there's misunderstanding
it's either lack of information or
miscommunication. And I what I'm hearing
is that we have done both. And so what
I'm hoping we could do is actually
address some of the issues that were
brought up tonight where maybe we can
provide a little more clarity and
understanding. Uh just since you're here
and you've made the effort to be here,
>> I'm all about transparency. I think that
if you want to know something that's
going on in the city, please contact me.
I'm happy to share. I'm happy to give
you a tour of the building. I'm happy to
discuss things with you. Um one the one
of the comments was brought up of the
building down the street that sat
vacant. So some education about that
building. um that building is currently
tied up in a legal lawsuit about over
water rights. So that's why it has sat
vacant for so many years. So
unfortunately that's not an option. Um
but now you know why it has sat vacant
and unused for so many years is they're
fighting and we don't want to be a part
of that. Um Dennis, unfortunately it is
almost 60 years old. It's 58. It's
weird, isn't it? But then when I look
and think I'm almost 50, that's weird. I
know, right? It seems like 30 years ago
was like 1980, but unfortunately it
wasn't. So, um, in regards to the
baseball field, we have, uh, set up new
baseball fields at Mills Park that will
be accommodating that overflow or the,
uh, baseball games that are currently
played here. Um,
and then the trees. I guess my husband
spilled the beans.
Um, we did learn from an arborist. We
have had a full report done by an
arborist that unfortunately many of the
trees that are lining 1500 South, we
just found out about this uh last night,
>> Thursday.
>> Oh, Thursday. Thank you. It all blends.
um that unfortunately when you plant the
same tree and so many of them they're
they share bugs and they just hop the
diseases and so unfortunately several of
those trees are going to have to be
removed. Uh my recommendation to the
city was that we save the wood and use
it for the new for different aspects of
new city hall. Maybe we do a tree as you
know an in the entry that is made out of
those old trees or maybe we use it for
the council das or a background to
repurpose that wood that kind of carries
on that honor of those trees that have
shaded so many generations of of
families that have grown up in
Woodscross. Um, so I know our goal has
always been to save the trees and then
uh when we had a branch fall and
thankfully not hit someone, it was a
rather large branch that fell and
exposed uh what was actually going on
inside those trees. Um we've had to uh
proceed on looking how we're going to
hand you know that those are going to
have to come down and we're talking and
not all trees will be coming down.
There's just a a portion of them. They
gave us the the independent arborist
gave us a report
>> and they've visited each tree. They
visited the trees. So,
>> and the reason we weren't ready to talk
about that tonight is because we're
having our park uh manager who is an
arborist also put together a report with
everything so that we can share that
with the public. So, we're not hiding
anything. We just didn't have
>> prepared. But again, it's
>> it's information that we're aware of.
I'm we will give the public more
information as it becomes available.
>> Yes.
>> Um
Tyler, I'm going to address your wages
if you don't mind. Um I know that you
are are set on the size of our city. The
competition that we have is the
surrounding cities when we're trying to
retain our employees.
Were you on Were you on the Zoom?
Okay. Well, we can totally print it out
and and get it to you.
>> Okay.
Okay. I'm just I'm just going to
remind everybody this this is our we we
gave you your time to talk. We're we're
going to I I I'm reminding her also um
that that this is it it's not a dialogue
at this point. We gave the public their
turn and and it's our turn to make some
comments and to try to maybe answer some
questions or clarify things.
>> Do some education. Um
the website and calendar, we need to
work on that. That obviously is
something that is lacking as well as
better communication on social media. Um
there is a page called Woods Crossers.
Unfortunately, that's not an official
city uh Facebook group and so you won't
see information from the city. I know
that uh Lacy tries to share some
information on there, but uh the
Woodscross City Facebook page and
Instagram is our official uh where she
tries to keep as much uh posted. But it
looks like we can do some improvement in
our websites
um and better communication. And then I
agree Josh has left, but uh we need to
have better attention to our data and
what we're sending out. My concern with
separating the police department is
eventually city hall is going to be need
to be replaced. So then are we looking
at building having three city buildings
versus two where we can keep city hall
in with the police department? And I
know that the chief and Bryce work
together a lot um going back and forth
and so I don't know what that would look
like as far as inconvenience for the
everyday business of uh the city.
>> Um and then Bryce, will you address what a needs assessment is?
Because I heard a lot of comments about
us looking at what we really need. Will
you just explain what a needs assessment
is and and kind of what we've done to
assess?
>> Yes.
>> So, it's common for uh an agency that's
looking to construct a building or
determine what's needed is to bring in
independent agents. Um and in this case,
we chose to hire the same architectural
firm who we intend to do design work if
this proceeds.
So the very first thing they did is sat
down with independent uh employees,
directors, and went through each agency
to determine what our current use is,
what our future anticipated use is, and
to give us square footages of those
spaces. And so I don't recall, did they
meet with any of you? Um I I don't
recall there, but I know they went
through the police department, admin,
met with courts. So, they've gone
through every
space and they give us a report that
says, "This is what we believe you need
for the future." So, that's what we're
basing things on. Um, it's been
commented that our city won't grow to
that capacity. Um, no, we're not going
to double next year. We're not going to
double in 5 years. I don't think the
city will ever double in population, but
we have anticipated about a 25%
increase. And so as we've worked with
the architectural firm, they have
assisted us in trying to determine what
those numbers are.
>> A 25% increase over what amount of time?
>> Current. Yeah. And and again, I'm all
parking amount
>> like within time frame.
>> Within the 50 year and look at our
census data and the state puts together
projections. So I'm I'm kind of
spitballing a number out there. I could
be off a little bit, but there are
estimates of what they anticipate the
city to grow to.
>> So, just to make sure my brain is
processing that correctly. So, 25% over
the next 50 years. Is that correctish?
In a ballpark in a roundabout way.
>> Let me let me say this to be more
accurate. Let me go to the census data
and give you more accurate information.
But as we look at the population, as we
look at the area of the city that is
undeveloped, and it's true, has been
stated tonight, there are people who are
not willing to sell their property. So,
who knows when that may happen. I
>> it may not.
>> But we also do have property that is
adjacent to the city that is looking to
be annexed into our city. It's about 34
300 How many acres is it?
>> 34.
>> Okay. 32 acres. Sorry, I was way off.
Um, that's looking at to annexing into
our city and then that would increase
our need for roads, police officers,
other infrastructure that comes along
with new development in those areas.
>> Yeah. So, we've used their skills to
help us analyze and determine what those
future projections are.
>> And then another uh comment that was
brought up was um are all the spaces
being used at city hall currently? Yes,
we are at capacity. Every space is used.
All of the offices, we have several
cubicles. We've moved cubicles. We've
tiny cubicles.
>> They're Yeah, they are. They're small
cubicles. We've really I feel like uh
we we're kind of bursting at the seams
uh as a city. And I know that there are
spaces that do sit empty. Um, I mean,
this room is one that isn't used every
day, but it's still a a required space
for a city to do our government to have
our council meetings, our planning
commission, and our court. We are
combined. I know that North Salt Lake
has a separate courtroom that is only
used once a week that we, you know, our
city has tried to be more conservative
in comingling those spaces so that we
aren't wasting uh the resources.
>> If I could also just add, there was a
lot of questions about the cost of
things and there was 18 million and 13
million. Again, we've had a challenge in
trying to help compare apples to apples.
And so, I won't argue that you're seeing
different numbers, but the 18 million
was to reconstruct this building for the
same space. The 13 to 14 is to take a
city hall irregardless of the other
spaces like the um the uh park and
things of that nature. So, we're trying
to compare apples to apples in those
things, realizing that there's a larger
total for other spaces and other things.
Again, some could argue that we're
trying to play with numbers. I'm happy
to sit down with anybody to show them,
and I showed that budget tonight that
Hogan gave us. Those are numbers that
have been around since April. So, we're
not changing those numbers, but I can
understand where people could be
confused as we're saying, well, we're
comparing this and this. So I'm happy to
meet with anyone who would like to have
a better understanding if they would
truly like to.
>> All right. So just to make sure my brain
understood that the 18 is just for the
building that if we were to for this
>> to renovate
>> renovate this building and that's an
estimate
>> an yeah a a good guess. And then the
1314 would be just to build this
building. And then the 33 is this
building plus
>> the park furnishings. That also includes
the approximately 5 million in
contingency that again we don't know
that we will or won't use that. We
obviously
>> don't want to. No, but you have
contingency for reasons. But yes, we've
always had the goal of keeping the park
and the city hall regardless of the
furnishings and stuff in that $25
million range for those components alone
knowing that there's other expenses
>> that will go on top of that.
>> Okay. And maybe that's where the
confusion was is by having that 18 and
then the 13 we understood what it meant.
>> It took me a minute. Um, but I think
maybe
you know more information sometimes can
get more muddy and uh I think just this
is our opportunity to educate more on
>> uh really what I mean we we honestly we
don't know the total cost right now
because we've been adjusting and
changing and and trying to take in
feedback. We did have an open house uh
we had one person that came
>> um that showed all of you know that we
all were there available to answer any
questions to discuss you know all the
whole project and unfortunately we we
had one person. So um I'm grateful
you're here tonight and hopefully you'll
stick with us as we continue to roll
this ball forward.
>> Yes. break.
>> Maybe just to clarify, you said we don't
know what it's going to cost. It's true
that as we continue to meet and revise
and refine things, we don't know the
exact cost of the building. We won't
know until the bids are out, but we do
know that we have a cap of 33 million
that the council has said go forward and
if you can do this project completely
for $33 million or less, go forward. But
also keep your hands off a contingency.
In fact, you are the ones that have to
decide if that contingency is used. So,
I think we've got some pretty tight
parameters and we will continue to work
on those numbers and keep them within
that amount of the 25 million for parks
and city hall. Now, if you come back and
say change the scope, less park things,
great. We can do that. But, um, for
people to be frustrated that we aren't
giving them accurate numbers, they're
the best numbers that we can come up
with at this time with the professionals
that are serving us.
>> Yeah.
>> Thank you. Thank you for those
clarifying answers.
>> Um, was that the comments you had,
Julie?
>> Well, just for the education and
hopefully giving a little bit more
clarification.
>> Okay.
>> Um, what I'm hearing is
>> so so hold on because I've got just a
few of the that go along with those um
some of those same things. Um, it was
mentioned that that Woodscross has the
highest property tax rate in Davis
County. That's That's not true. From the
form that was presented, that is a
notice of all of the entities in Davis
County that have a proposed tax increase
for this year. Um the rates that are
listed on that form are the increases
proposed over um what the rates are
currently. Um but if you if you look at
it and say okay well the city of
Clearfield an average home price is
510,000
currently their residential rates are
329 to 351 and Woods Cross's um 543,000
and our residential rates are 387
um
would go to 569. So our 387 and their
329 and there's a difference in
valuation there. We're similar, but over
the years um for a long time until we
did our in our increase because it it
when I started on the council and our
very first tax increase that we did
years ago, it had been 25 years since
taxes had been raised in Woodscross. And
at the time, we were the very lowest
property tax rate in Woodscross. And we
were able to do that because our sales
tax was so strong. Um, in 2009 in the
economic downturn when nobody was buying
vehicles and a bunch of other things,
that really changed that balance between
sales tax and property tax. Sales tax
went way down and all of a sudden the bigger piece of pie was property
tax. But as Bryce pointed out in one of
his um very first slides, it had public
safety. It had our police wages. It had
the our assessment to the fire district
um property tax. The intention of it is
to at least cover your public safety
needs. And ours is less than half of
what our public safety costs are between
fire and police. And so we've been
supplementing that with sales tax
because we are very fortunate with the
sales tax that we have because we have
these large car dealerships and a
grocery store now that help to
supplement that.
>> Um it so that's um let's see that was
one um a 3% value increase by the
county. Um, the way that property taxes
are supposed to work, and it's not
always perfect, is that as values of
homes go up from your assessment, the
property tax rate goes down to keep the
revenue neutral to the city. It's not
always exact. It's a calculation that
happens on a county or a state level.
Um, and then there's different
valuations each year where the county
takes a section of homes and it might be
I don't know if they do it randomly or
if it's a neighborhood, but as they do
that, those are adjusted and as those
values go up, the rates are supposed to
drop within the city to accommodate
that. Now, there are times when there's
a little a bump in that and there's an
adjustment. Um,
that that's the way that the state has
set up property tax in the state of
Utah. It's intended to hold the cities
harmless if there's a decrease in value.
It's also intended to hold the property
owners harmless if there's an increase
in home value. Um,
let's see.
Um
there was a a I mentioned that we've not
been transparent with wages. Um we
didn't go through all the entire budget
line item by line item tonight because
we went through all of those things at
our interim budget in more detail and
that's when we're required to do that.
If we did that tonight, the meeting
would have gone on for another two hours
because we're rehashing all of the same
details. And so we didn't go through
each one of those tonight. That's
correct. Um
I there's been comments about um large
increases to administration and director
level positions. We have several of our
director level positions that are newer
to the city. And it may be that their
first year they were paid less. And
that's probably because it was a partial
year. And the next year may have been a
30% increase because that was a full
year of wages plus a cost adjustment for
um the cost of living that was in there.
Those are on par with all of the rest of
the employees. Like Bryce said, when an
employee is newer and in the lower
levels of those step positions, the that
step increase is on the higher end, it's
a 4% or whatever. As they get further
along in their career and they're
further up that wage scale, the
difference from one step to the next
goes from that 4% down to about a 2%.
And so, um, but those those are set and
that was helped, um, to be decided on by
the consultant that we hired to do that
whole wage survey to try to keep us
competitive with those that are, um,
marketing to and trying to steal our
employees.
Um
the amounts one we talked about. Um the
community space was not mentioned a lot
in Bryce's presentation about the budget
and the tax increase. Um our most
pressing need for sure is the police
department and having adequate space for
the police department. The new building
as the um designs are right now in the
stage that they're at, it does include
community space. It includes a city
council chamber which then has an
overflow into a community room. That
community room is big enough to hold
events in and that community room then
flows out onto a plaza and into the
park. So the idea is to have it be a
gathering space for the community
whether it's for a meeting, whether it's
for a meet the candidate night, whether
it's for any any kind of a city meeting
or a city celebration or activity. um if
we build it for that, it also makes
sense to make it available for residents
to be able to use in the off times. And
so that's part of the idea behind that.
Um the people that we haven't heard from
tonight that aren't here are people that
have talked to me and I'm sure to others
over the last years as we've talked
about this. And there are people that
have said, "Hey, as you're redoing City
Park or as you're redoing City Hall,
will it have a a good community space, a
space that we could use to rent out for
a family celebration or a meeting?"
Because the space that you have right
now is not adequate for that. And so as
we have people that have spoken against
it here, um I know that I have heard
from people that have said, "Please,
please look at these things as you redo
this because those are things that we're
interested in."
Um
>> and address the needs of the city side
of business because he didn't talk about
forefront of that.
>> Um like what? Well, the the comment of
like you've talked about did you show
the um the part of I know you you
skimmed over the city offices part
>> but do you want to talk about how much
smaller that is compared to the police
department area?
>> Yes. Do you want me to go back and show
you it? Yeah.
>> Okay. Let me jump back to that.
>> We're we're we're not taking p We're not
taking public comment, Tyler. We're
happy to talk to you. We're we're happy
to talk to you after the meeting.
» Now you're going over to pretend again.
How is that fair? You had your chance to
present it.
>> I'm just asking clarification for a
question that I have.
>> We we put the information out there the
way that the meeting was going to go. So
here is the second floor. I'm going to
jump back to the first floor. The second
floor kind of occupies.
>> Can you put it in slideshow so it's
bigger? If you go to slideshow at the
top and then present.
>> Uh, it's covered up on my thing. So, let
me figure out how to make it visible
where I can click slideshow. There we
go.
>> Okay. So, um the way that the um
second floor aligns with the first
floor, this is the elevator right up
here in this upper left kind of area
right there where my cursor is. So, I'm
going to jump to the next slide
and you can see darn it where the
elevator is right here. So, here's the
set of stairs and I'll jump back again.
Here's the set of stairs right here. So,
the
second floor will kind of occupy a
similar space over the lobby. Um, and
then it goes over most of the police
department. It ends about 20 ft short of
the full depth of the police department.
I don't have the exact square footage.
>> That's fine. I just wanted to show that
we we are uh also being cognizant of the
police. We realize the police is our
biggest department of the city and they
do require more space, but we're not
building a necessary square footage
above it to make it, you know,
>> right? Y
>> now, can we occupy that extra 20 ft that
the Edmond building has built back from
the east face of the police department?
We believe that there are ways that
their design could accommodate that in
the future. In fact, we've even talked
about do we make a shell now and then do
it later. Those are still costs and
things that we'll talk about, but we're
trying to be conservative and not spend
money that we don't need to. Um, we've
also, as I went to the site plan at the
very beginning, I said, "This is a
bigger area footprint." And that's
because we learned that we could move
more of the police department things
into the basement like the wait room and
the gun cleaning and those kind of
things so that we can make that
footprint bigger and cover three
stories. the footprint smaller.
>> Footprints smaller, but yes, we still
maintain
>> to still accommodate
>> the use. Yes. And then the question
about why would we keep admin and police
department as you mentioned, Julie,
we're working together on a regular
basis. Sam knows how often he's running
up here, I'm running down there. And so
it just makes sense for heating,
cooling, um the crossover of the
employees that work together, our HRs
here. We are constantly in each other's
spaces
>> and it just makes sense to
>> continue having those as close together
as possible.
>> Have a question.
>> Um so someone mentioned something about
um filtering the air and it was a
thought that I had as well.
>> Venting the air. Will that air be
filtered as it's vented? Do we know that
yet or is that part of the process or
>> I think we'll need to look at what
>> potential hazards are on that air. Um I
don't think we're going to send out a
cloud of contamination that's going to
make people ill, but the more it's
concentrated in areas, the more
potential. Chief, I don't know. Do you
want to elaborate on that?
>> Yeah, I don't think it'd be anything
harmful. It's more, you know, if we get
a lot of marijuana over the weekend,
just
>> direct inhalation. I've Yes, we've done
the field trip. We've been down there
and we've smelt the smells.
>> We're not going to be releasing meth or
heroin or stuff just to ventilate it.
>> Just ventilator. Okay. Thank you for the
clarification.
» Anyway, those were those were just some
of the ones that I had just gone
through. I took I took two full pages of notes. of my thoughts and the things
that I heard. Um, does anyone else have
comments or clarif Bryce? Do you have
something else?
>> There were a lot of comments on the
trees and we absolutely agree that we do
not want to remove any more trees than
are necessary. Um, so we have mapped all
of the trees, GPS them, and those are on
the plans and we are working to keep
every tree that we can. We do have some
here next to the parking lot that have
been a nuisance tree. We've anticipated
removing those. Um we just learned on
Thursday the issue with the ash trees.
We will take out as few as possible, but
realizing that not only have the the
bore, but Rocky Mountain Powers trimming
of the trees on the north side of the
trees has also had a huge impact on the
livelihood of those trees. So again,
we'll provide that information as soon
as we can compile that and make it
available to the public. And I love the
idea of utilizing that wood any way that
we can.
I uh I was entertaining um some of the
population data here for a few minutes.
And as we start thinking about uh our
city um in 50 years of what a building
is supposed to support, um I went to
Wasatch Front Regional Council. Um what
they do is a a group that basically does
uh long range planning. They do
community development. Uh they do a lot
of transportation studies for us.
Um the numbers here are pretty eye
opening. Um basically, you know, we know
we are right now is about 12,000. Um the
way that they look at projections is
that uh by the next uh 10year cycle,
like in the first 10 years, if we do
choose to build this building, um we're
projected to be servicing um 19,41
um number of population here in the
city. I mean, we know that there's going
to have to be some large land that has
to come up and available for sale, but I
just was just thinking about like, well,
okay, that's that's 10 years out of a
50-year building. Um, what does it look
like um potentially in in 20 years in in
2046? Um, it's roughly 21,000. And so I
mean I just think of um you know our our
current needs especially with our police
like this is a building that uh is
capable to support population of that size. Um we all know that we are
just live in an incredible place that's
really close to downtown
access to tremendous amount of uh job uh
capacity here. It's a fantastic place
and people are discovering Woodscross
and I I want to be able to support the city and the police with that
>> and and I think um I mean we don't have
a ton of open land left that will
develop that's currently within the
boundaries. We have I think about 400
acres. Um but the pressure from the
state is that uh the more and more
development that happens the higher
density they're going to require it to
be. Um and and that's just the reality
of where we are in Utah because of the
housing shortage and the population
that's continuing to grow and they're
putting requirements on cities to um
increase density and to do that. And as
areas of the city of of cities
redevelop, those will most likely also
have highdensity housing elements
because
there's only so many places to build and
um that's just the way that things are
going. It's the pressure that we're
feeling from the state. It's not that that's what we want, but that's the
reality of the way things are heading
now. And so I think that is where Wasach
Front Regional Council is taking those
numbers.
>> Yeah.
>> Because they're looking at it saying
that's how it's going to develop. The
closer you are to Salt Lake, the the
more that's going to happen because it
just has to go up.
So,
>> um, Bryce, what would it be possible for
the city to if we did decide to do this
in two two phases and maybe let's focus
on the building and getting the building
and I know that that's going to tear up
the parks in areas because obviously the
building's going to go in the park. Um,
if we were to look at doing two bonds,
one for the city and then one for the
parks
in a couple years or after the city is
built has built city hall, is that
something we could do? Um,
like
brainstorm with me on that.
>> Yes. So, the answer is yes. if we chose
to literally phase two different things
and just say, "Okay, we're only going to
spend this much money during this
portion of the project and that's all
we're going to do and whatever the part
looks like for the remainder of that."
Um, but I talked to Mark Anderson, our
financial adviser, and said, "Could we
No, let's just say we did say we want to
go for a $33 million or a $25 million
bond." Um, could we borrow a portion
this year and then a port and a higher
portion next year? And the answer is no.
Just like any of us going to the bank
and saying, "Hey, I need a loan on a
house. Here's my income this year, but
by next year when the payments are due,
I promise I'm going to have, you know,
25% more, whatever that amount is." And
he confirmed no, uh, to go to the
bonding and through that process, you
have to be able to show that you have
revenue sufficient to cover that. Now,
with that being said, we still are
working with some big numbers. We're
still trying to estimate the best we
can. And so, you know, we have to make a
decision before the end of August what
this rate's going to be. If between now
and next year, we get the building done
and let's say we build the whole entire
project and we find out that we don't
need to borrow $25 million. Let's say we
could borrow $20 million or something
and the payments don't need to be that
high. Then the council could lower that
tax rate to cover the debt that we need
to cover. So it's unfortunate that we
have to say we have to make a decision
by the end of August. But if we are
fortunate in, you know, doing this
project for less, there are ways that we
can give the citizens relief in other
ways. I hate to promise that, but we're
not
binding the city or ourselves to that
higher tax rate unless there's a
legitimate need for it. So what is the
cost when of setting up another bond if
we were to split them? Is it cost
effective to look at that or are there
fees and
>> there are fees? Yes. Just like if you
were to go get a mortgage and then get a
second mortgage. You're going to pay
Yes. a lot of fees on that. Please don't
put me on the spot to give you what
those dollar amounts are, but you would
have to ask yourself the question, is it
really worth the additional money to go
through that bonding cost and paying for
those issuing costs
in two loans versus doing it in one? But
yes, that is a additional cost.
» Okay.
There were there were also comments
about um let's wait and save up money to
pay for it in the future. Um which is an
option um in order to save up sufficient
funding. we would still have to increase
property taxes in order to accumulate
enough. Or what we're doing is we're
accumulating and the cost is going up
and we're accumulating and the cost is
going up and we're chasing a number that
we can't get to at the rate that we're
able to accumulate cash at this point.
Um it's just it's it's
we look I look at Bountiful. Bountiful
years ago went to um paying everything
with cash, but to do that they raised
their property taxes and they collected
way more in property taxes than what
they needed to operate and they stuck
that into a capital improvement account
that they grew over the years. But they
made a decision 20 plus years ago to do
that and raised their property taxes at
this point at that point. So, we
probably would still end up having to go
through actually we I mean that we would
have to run the numbers, but we'd
probably have to increase the taxes more
than this because we would accumulate
it, but the cost of construction is
going up at least 5% a year. And so, as
we're accumulating, we're just never
catching that number. the the number is.
So if we waited for 10 years and I mean
if right now if we're we're able to save
a million dollars a year right now
that's without any costs going up and
with no tax increase. So no inflation at
all to the city. So in 10 years we would
have saved $10 million plus some
interest each year. But the cost now of
the building instead of being 14 million
um if it's going up 5% a year, you're
now
however many million 7 8 million higher.
So you've accumulated a little bit more
than the increase in cost of the
building. And it just without doing a
sizable tax increase, you can't ever get
to the point that you can do it in cash.
cities don't have a rich uncle that's
going to pass away and give an
inheritance someday.
>> It just doesn't happen.
>> The other the other piece too is, you
know, we're required um the state of
Utah is very conservative.
We will bank our money with the state of
Utah's treasur's office and that's at
best two or 3%.
>> Yeah, that's going to ask how much
percentage would we get on our savings
if we save anything?
>> We we really we we don't I can go find
that. Let me share one piece of
information. I just looked up the
estimates that we received in February
from uh
>> um Z's Bank giving us an estimate and
the cost of issuance was approximately
$200,000 to borrow $15 million. So, um
let me jump to the cost of issuance for
$25 million on a 25-year loan.
That estimate again was
um
$278,000
approximately in issuance cost. So
>> $78,000 increase for more than double
the amount
>> um for $10 million more because 15
million, this is 25 million. So
>> $10 million.
>> Don't ask me to do the math on that
right now. for uh Rachel's question. Let
me jump to my monthly finance and I can
tell you what our last PETIF that's
public treasures impact public treasures
investment fund.
>> Um this is a secure investment place
where we can put our money. We can
choose other instruments but this is a
very secure
>> and typically does better than a lot of
commercial institutions can offer us.
And our finance report for June of 2026
was
Hold on a second. Sorry,
Bryce. While you're looking that up, I
did have a resident ask um why we don't
invest money in like stocks or or things
like that. And um it's against state law
for us to use taxpayer dollars for any
sort of uh
>> public public
corporation
investments. uh it's like us gambling
the residents money if there's a crash
in the market or different things. So
state law pres that states that we have
to do our savings through the state
treasury if anyone's wondering
>> about that.
>> Brian just text a friend Brian just sent
the text and said it was 3.9% um was
last our last uh pediff interest rate.
And the rate on the bond would be
approximately the estimate was 4
something right was around 4%.
>> The when they gave us this estimate they
said that the interest rate was
estimated to be
net interest cost 4.12 true interest
cost 4 3.99
uh average coupon 4.49.
Can you explain that Ryan? is I mean
there's there's a lot there's a lot that
goes into those numbers.
>> Also, can you be looking up the
construction increase per year that
Hogan has?
>> 5% is 5%. So, it's a percent more than
what our savings would get give us.
>> That's a few%.
>> And if we go back to Hogan's estimate
they gave us, they had a 5% of project
that was about $1.4 million. So, if we
keep adding on $1.4 4 million, but then
that also is going up. It's going to get
higher every month, every year. Yeah.
You're looking at potential costs of
about a million and a half every year
that you're waiting.
>> In fact, we were told that if we didn't
get this project bid and sealed the deal
before January 1st, that's when most
corporations, suppliers, and everything
just automatically put in that increase.
So, we could expect that if we don't get
a bid out before January 1.
Brian's texting
Sam to just remind us that if you keep
an eye on bond rates and stuff in the
news, I mean it's based, you know, they
kind of follow treasuries and things. I
mean, that that market is just
whipsawing up and down every day. So,
>> okay, the whole economy is
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, as the kindergartener
um this
>> I'll get myself the first grader on
>> it to like as a first
>> Okay, there you go.
>> There we go. Well, we'll get in my terms
in my world. Um I've done it, you know,
as the newbie on this on this council.
Um I've come in at a very massive
disadvantage because I've not been a
part of the discussion that um I know at
least has been happening. you know, as I
went back through records, it was like
2023 where I saw it start consistently
appear on city council agendas and
minutes. Um, I've had to do a lot of
learning and I've had to go find out
where these things are. And as I've
when we went to the training in St.
George. Um, they sat down with me and
told me what what the rate was going to
be and I about passed out. I'm like,
there is no way. I cannot I cannot
raise taxes that much. That is that is
that's a no. Um, but as I've come to
learn,
um,
we've kicked a can down the road for
years and years and years. We have an
aging infrastructure that we are not
taking care of and this building is one
of them. And I can understand why past
city council and mayors have not passed
a tax increase because it does it does
hurt our citizens. It hurts it hurts
them in a way that um we we don't know
and we don't understand because we're
not in their daily lives and we're not
seeing their personal finances and their
personal struggles.
But the longer we kick it down the road,
the longer we avoid doing this,
the more it's going to hurt us.
And so I am absolutely just in abject
horror at the thought of 46%.
But I am at an even in more abject
horror of not taking care of this city
that I have adopted as my home.
Um, as a school teacher, I have to
differentiate the needs of 25, 30, 30
students. And it's hard because this
student needs this and this student wants this and
someone's need is someone else's want
and someone's want is someone else's
need. And so, as I've listened to all
these amazing individuals in our
community talk about their needs and
their wants and their fears and their frustrations. I'm like, how do we
balance all of these things? And I have
said several times, I wish I had a
crystal ball so I could see what the
future is going to bring.
And as a protector, a daily protector of the future and those little lives, I
want this city to be something that my
students
are proud of. And I fear that if we
don't do this now, it won't be and we
will continue to
fall apart at the seams.
And so, yeah, I do not do not want to
raise this 46%.
And I hope with the fervor of my soul
that we don't.
But I recognize that if I want a city
that is good for tomorrow and that
tomorrow's tomorrow,
then I guess we have to make the
decision that other Pacity counselors um
also struggle to make and and chose not
to. And so we're between a rock and a
hard spot. And we have to
cuz if we don't,
it's going to get worse.
And I don't want that. I don't want that
for my future. I don't want that for the
future of the kids that pass through my
classroom. And I do not want city to
lose its its viability and its future.
Thanks Rachel.
other comments or discussion.
>> I've appreciated u being involved from
day one. Um I think we can look at that
citizens committee that was initially
contacted and asked to be involved to
give us ideas as kind of a steering
committee. And I think those initial
citizens pointed us in this general
direction.
and in looking and and hearing hours
upon hours of their comments and ideas
and then of course talking with um
uh those that attended Memorial Day and
the displays we had out there and to see
the excitement on so many of our
citizens and families of citizens that
uh look forward to changes. And then
there's two comments that were made here
tonight that has stood out particularly
for me. I can't remember his name, but
it's the gentleman with the white shirt
and tie.
>> Spencer McBride.
>> Spencer.
And he said when he goes to the park
with his kids, he's grateful for the
decisions that were made by those that
came before.
And I think, okay, are there going to be
individuals that are going to be
grateful 20 years from now for decisions
that we make tonight,
or are they going to regret the
decisions we didn't make?
And then little Ruth Payne standing up
there. I think she's a great
representation
of a stage of life that I'm entering
into. Um, I'm on a fixed income, too.
I've loved my retirement for this last
year and a half, and I hope to have
many, many more years yet in the future.
And so, this is a burden that I am
willing to take upon myself along with.
I I can't be willing not to do that and
vote it for the others that are fellow
citizens in this city. So, it's a burden
I'm willing to take upon myself as a
retiree.
and and share that.
» Don't necessarily need to have the last
word, but I should probably say
something.
Been very quiet here. Um,
I I've also been involved very early on
before I was in this chair. Um, I
actually participated in in the the the
citizens committee as a citizen and on
the planning commission. And so I've
seen the early process of this and I
it's I see the difficulty
of people who haven't been as involved
because it's very difficult to convey
information in a way that's effective.
Uh especially when there really aren't
any decisions that are being made. It's
all we don't know and we're and we're
figuring it out. Um I also think we are
in a bit of a tough situation because
like was mentioned I don't remember who
exactly mentioned it but saying hey if
we had the money saved up and we just
had to spend that money to build the
city hall is a lot different
conversation than having to raise taxes
to do it right that's what Bountiful did
20 years ago they decided we're going to
create this huge bank account of money
of citizens money we're going to put it
away for 20 years and then we're going
build a city hall or well then we're
going to renovate our city hall and we
don't need to go into that as described
as a debacle by someone but um
in my opinion and this is this is just
me speaking here but I like the way that
Woodscross has done it because
Woodscross hasn't burdened citizens for
the past 20 years not seeing any benefit
to then having a city hall built now
instead Woodscross has said no we're
going to
allow the citizens who are going to see
benefit from this project also fund the
project, right? Um because the
alternative is to raise taxes anyway
and then tell you, "Yeah, but wait 20
years and then we'll build a city hall."
And and
that doesn't sit well with me at all.
But that's the only alternative because
we need new facilities. we need um this
infrastructure is important, but the
city hasn't
done the front-end work to pay for it.
We don't have the money in the account.
And so, um and so that's where that
that's that's that's my thoughts on it.
Um I do I I'm we're part of the the
day-to-day process in the in the um
working through the designs of the
project and the designs of the building.
I really appreciate all your comments
and thoughts.
um on the on on that level as well as
far as well what what can we do this or
could we maybe look at it this way or
can we approach the park a little bit
different way. Those are all very
helpful as we work through this process
because it is our intention to be
responsible
and to make the best decision for the
community. Um and we're all the
community, right? It's not just us. It's
not just the people in those meetings.
It's all of us. And so that's why that's
why all these comments are so valuable
to to me personally as I as we work
through this. Um because one thing I I
can attest to is that our intention is
to make the best decision for all of us
as a community as a whole. Um there's no
um you know we don't really have
personal egos involved or or it's not a
pet project for any individual person.
It's really more about what's going to
serve citizens of Woodscross and without
that input from you all, we we don't we don't have that direction. So, we
really appreciate all the comments that
we got. Um, and um, I am, as as Bryce
had mentioned, I am hopeful that
whatever decision we make at this point
with the taxes, we'll have more clarity
in the future and we can look to make
adjustments in the future as well. And
so, um, so I am hopeful that that that
process will present itself and then
next year we see where things set out.
We have the actual numbers and we can
make those those adjustments at that
point, too. But um
but yeah, I I wish they would have
raised taxes 20 years ago because that
would make my job a lot easier, but they
didn't do that. And so we are we are
where we are.
» There's a couple
on Zoom. Do you want to address or do
you need to?
>> Um I don't know if we need to. Okay. I
Okay.
>> It's it was a public comment period and
public are allowed to make comments and
>> um
» I disagree with the comment.
I don't have control over what my
husband said.
>> Nor nor should we.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Um,
we're we're up here as as
we're each one of you. We're we're your
neighbors. We live in your
neighborhoods. We drive by and see you
um in your neighborhoods. We go to
church with you. Our kids go to school
with you with your kids. Maybe they
don't because maybe we don't all have
kids that anymore that line up.
>> Maybe they come to my classroom. But um
we're we're it what what we do applies
to you and applies to us the same way.
Um I've been
um sitting up here in these seats for a
while. Um some would maybe say too long
and maybe that's true. Um years ago I
got involved because I
um wanted to make a difference. I felt
like there were some things in
Woodscross that um needed to be improved
and so I got in involved and got asked
to be on the planning commission and I
did that for a while and then I ran for
city council. Um I was on city council
for 12 years and for most if not all of
those 12 years we've had discussion
about needing to do something with city
hall. Um there's it's it's an aging
property that is having more and more
issues. It's costing more and more each
year for upkeep, um, for maintenance,
for repairs, and it's it's found us
where we're at. In those years, 12 on
city council and four as the mayor. Um,
I've been involved in each of those tax
increases in one way or another. I've
been sitting up here in one of these
seats. Um, some of them I have supported
wholeheartedly because it was time and
we needed to do it. Um the very first
time that it happened and I was up here
and we raised one after not having
raised it for 25 years. Um I scolded the
city council that had been here and I
said this should have happened sooner
because it put us in a really difficult
position at that point. Um I've also
been hesitant to raise taxes.
these folks can tell you that I've um
sometimes been the voice that says um we
probably shouldn't raise it this year or
I've advocated for a lesser amount. Um
I'm pretty conservative by nature. Um
but I can see that the longer we put
this off, the more expensive and
detrimental it will be to the city. And
I I feel for those that um that things
are tight. I have been there. I lived
there for a lot of years. And um and I
know what it's like to have your budget
be really tight. I know what it's like
to be paycheck to paycheck. And to have
to make decisions of should I pay this
or should I pay this because I can't pay
both. And I know what that feels like.
So that a lot of times helps guide the
way that I approach these things.
Um it is a large increase and
it's
um
and I know that it's it's hard for some.
My my recommendation and and I I don't
get to vote unless there's a tie. It's
just the nature of being the mayor. Um,
my recommendation would be to to press
forward at this time with city hall and
with the park. I think it makes sense to
do them together. Um, if we do city hall
and if we do it on this same property
where we're at, we have to move out of
this property and lease space somewhere
for um, a period of time and that adds
cost. Um, if we remodel
this city hall, I watched what happened
with Bountiful and they spent more money
to remodel an existing building and make
it seismically safe than they would have
to build a larger city hall from
scratch. They were still constrained
with the limits of the building. They
didn't change the footprint. They
weren't able to design it to the needs
that they had. They lived within what
was there. They moved some walls and
they did some things, but it wasn't the
ideal design for what they needed
because they had constraints of the
building.
If we remodel this, make it seismically
sound, um, do all those things, it's
still the same size. We still have those
same constraints. we still have things
that will continue to be issues for
years because we haven't solved the root
of the problem. And for that um
that's that's why I would be supportive
of it. And um I think as we continue on
and and I've been involved through all
of the design process um we are trying
our best to minimize the the total cost
of the project but still make it viable
for hopefully the next 50 years. And
like Wall-E said, I was going to written
down a note from what Spencer said, and
I just had written, "Previous residents
looked ahead to the future and paid more
for the betterment of the community to
make it so that we could enjoy what we
have now." And I think
that's why we're we're here is people
have put us in place to try to make
Woodscross better for the future. And
anyway, those are my those are my
thoughts.
Do we need more discussion? Are we ready
to make a decision tonight or do we want
to sleep on it and think about it for a
couple of weeks and come back in two
weeks and make a decision in two weeks?
What are your thoughts?
>> I' I've got a question short for Bryce.
do you feel like
um we would have any more clarity in two
weeks than we do today on construction
of costs for the project?
>> I don't. No, I in two weeks. And Eric,
you probably know this better than
anybody. You know, if we're progressing
on this project, we're trying to tighten
things up. We're not at a point of
having firm plans. We we have months of
that. My biggest fear is is that by
delaying this, we're not telling the
contractor. We're not telling the
architect. we're not telling others that
we are moving forward with this and
those days are ticking away. I would
hate to see us pay another million and a
half dollars because we couldn't meet
this timeline. In fact, we're having
another meeting on Thursday night for
the very reason that we've got to nail
down some big questions to keep this
going. So,
if I thought waiting would be a benefit,
I would tell you
I can't see it. It would it hurt if we
wait until after Thursday though cuz
which is a public meeting. It's a work
session.
>> Um so if on Thursday you chose to tell
the public tonight that your next date
and time to do that. Yes. You will have
a public meeting. We would have to
notice it tomorrow
before
4:00 p.m.
>> Yes. That's cutting it.
>> That's about as high as we can get it.
Well, I mean, if we meet on Thursday, is
it detrimental if we wait until our for
till our next council meeting?
>> Um, the 18th of August.
>> Yeah. So, to have the decision made the
18th of August, but use Thursday's
meeting to kind of finish um
>> processing.
>> Thursday will definitely help to get
these answers in place. No question
about it.
I would intend that the architect and
contract will continue to work in good
faith that we're moving forward. But you
got to remember, and I don't think
they're not working, but if they know
they've got bonding and stuff in place
that we're moving forward with this, it
sends a different message than well,
give us another two weeks. So, you tell
me if you were in their shoes.
I would not recommend it.
I think
>> Yeah. I I I think that Thursday we may
have a better understanding of the
project.
>> I don't think we will have any different
understanding of the finances.
>> No.
>> But then I think I might be able to make
a
>> more educated
>> decision
that just yes more time to process and
make make understanding for my
kindergarten brain.
>> Can I ask a question? Would you be of a
mindset that meeting on Thursday and
getting some of these bigger questions
firmed up would give you enough
information to make a decision at the
end of that meeting to set the tax rate
>> and approve the budget.
Two days is a lot different than two
weeks.
>> Two days is a lot different than two
weeks. I would also say that I don't
know that there's anything that we're
going to talk about
Thursday that's going to have this
monumental saving millions of dollars.
>> Well,
my my what I've hearing from people is
they don't feel there's a need for the
park to be redone
>> with all of the amenities.
>> Yeah. So perhaps in on Thursday when we
have a work session, we could look at if
we don't do all those amenities, how
much is that going to save?
>> Yes. My challenge with that is and we
could invite Hogan to be there.
But again, as I showed you earlier, I'll
make that document available. They've
got some big numbers. If you suddenly
said, "We don't want the water feature,
we don't want this, or we don't want
that." We're just kind of crossing out
big numbers, and we don't know how
that's going to exactly translate.
So,
it's not as precise as sitting in a car
data and saying, "Well, take off the
chrome trim and take off this, and you
can see an exact dollar amount." I mean,
Eric, you've done this enough times as
an architect. Would you dare
make those kind of commitments
that early?
And then that's where I say I I don't
know that any discussion we have on
Thursday in my opinion would
dramatically impact the finances of the
project. Now we can make decisions
moving forward that will impact the
finances of the project.
>> But I don't I don't know that I would be
comfortable in coming and saying no we
don't want to do 47%. We want to do 25%
because we're doing X and Y in the park
at this point. I don't want to tie our
hands and and and restrict us. I'd
rather make sure we can do what needs to
be done and then when we have
opportunity and know what those numbers
are next year say, "Okay, nope. It
really is x amount." And we adjust.
So maybe another way of saying that is
I don't think there's any way that if
you want to go for this project
that I would dare counsel you to do a
lower tax increase. However, in the next
3 months if we can get some better
numbers that we can say guess what we're
not going to spend 33 million we're
going to spend 30 million or 28 million.
Therefore, next year we can say
taxpayers, thank you for entrusting us
to make this decision with the best
information we have today. Now that
we've secured the financing and the
bonding and we know what we have in the
savings, we know what we need.
Therefore, we can lower that tax rate
next year if we don't need that money.
But I don't think there's any way that I
would counsel you to go for a lower tax
rate with the the large picture things
that we're still talking about.
>> Way of explaining it.
>> Better state than I did. But yeah,
that's what I was saying.
>> And and Bryce, if I'm correct, to Zans's
Bank, if we don't have the the money set
up and the financing where we're going
to be able to actually bond for that
money, they they won't even set the bond
for it.
>> No. If we don't have a tax rate set, it
doesn't matter if you want to borrow 15
million, 20 million or 25.
>> Yeah.
>> They're going to look at you and say
>> 25%. Right?
>> If we are not able to show that we
needed 30% or 35% then doesn't matter.
>> Then it doesn't matter. We would we
wouldn't get the bond.
>> Yeah.
» We do have a list of rough costs from
Hogan.
>> Yeah.
>> Yes. Yes.
So on Thursday, we could review what the
rough costs would be
of eliminating
parts of the park, whether we do them
down the road. Like my point is is
if we're just going to do 46% because we
want a building, but we're not going to
do a park, why are we just doing 46%?
Why? If we're just going to focus on
doing a building
first,
why are we
looking at taxing for money that I mean,
yeah, it's nice to say, okay, we we may
not use it, but if we if the majority of
the residents don't want
Hogan Park redone,
that's going to save us half of the
cost. we don't have to bond that much
because
depending on what features are cut,
that money is not money we have to bond.
>> So that means our percentage doesn't
have to be 46%, it could be lower. And
so I think we need to look at the
itemized list by Hogan and really try to
figure out here's the, you know, it's
not the exact because we don't have
exact numbers, but here's the ballpark
of the building and here's the ballpark
of the park at this phase or this phase
or all of it. Mhm.
>> And then we can make a better decision
on what percentage we actually
really need to approve tonight or not
tonight, but for this year
versus yeah, we're just going to build
it all. And
>> so I I see what you're saying.
>> Mhm. Personally, I think that
um I wouldn't be comfortable in cutting
that amount with two days or two weeks
thought
when so much has gone into the decisions
that they made at this point. I'm not
saying that we don't cut the park
ultimately, but I don't think that's a
decision that I'm comfortable in making
so quickly. And so I don't want to
require that
by the decisions we make in the next two
weeks
and then in a two months we say oh you
know what actually it is a better idea
but then we can't do it. I'd much rather
like Bryce had mentioned if in two
months we say we're not doing the park,
that's great, right? We don't bond for
that much and then next year we come
back and say, you know what? Yep. We're
adjusting our tax rate. We're lowering
it because we didn't need that money
because we decided not to do the park.
That's great, but I don't want to tie
our hands and say, "Nope, this is Yeah,
I I'm not comfortable doing that in such
a short period of time."
if if I could just share. Well, and can
I still share my screen? Let me see if I
can
Where's my Zoom at? I got so many things
open here. I'm lost.
Um, let me go here. Um, let's go back to
the Hogan
project list
because I hear what you're saying,
Julie, that look, we may just decide to
take certain things off the table, and
that's absolutely correct. However, the
uh exterior improvements right here,
5,264,
without knowing from Brian Taylor what
is in that, would that be like not doing
the trees? Would that be like not doing
the water feature? So, I I would just
need to get more information, and I'm
certainly happy over the next 24 hours
to do that so that I could come to the
meeting on Thursday with more
information,
but I would hate to have that
expectation today because if you think
about it, if we're committed on the
location of the building, well, the
pickle ball court's going to go, so
we've got to build a pickle ball court.
Well, how much is that? Um, we don't
have to build a water feature. We could
do that in the future, but we are going
to have to put in electrical, plumbing,
and some things so that it's there and
we're not tearing up half of a site. So,
that's where I'm being very careful to
caution you that it's not just as easy
as just scratch this, scratch that, not
knowing the implications of what else
would have to be done. And then, you
know, even tearing a park up, we don't
get to just say, "Well, we only cut it,
you know, the line right down the middle
right here, and this part we're not even
going to touch because there would still
be utilities or things." That's why I'm saying we don't have to build it
all. I just can't tell you what we
wouldn't have to build if you said
scratch these five items. So,
>> it would be interesting to have that
vision of the whole if you give a mouse
a cookie and all the dominoes that fall
because of it.
>> Happy to get Brian on the phone tomorrow
and just say be prepared to come help us
and maybe he can even come to the me
meeting. Um,
and if it end up cutting one or two
million dollars off, okay, so you know,
we can maybe lower that from 25 to 22.
But the other thing that I don't have
is, you know, I can ask um Mark
Anderson, how quickly could you prepare
us new updates on the bonding? Maybe
they could have something done by
Thursday.
My biggest fear is if we can't be
prepared to tell the public and these
institutions that are working with us
that yes, we're committed and going
forward,
do we just have the full faith and buy
in on them? And maybe we do, maybe we
don't. But we're burning daylight is
probably the best way I can say it.
So where you at? Couple move forward.
I say move forward.
I'm comfortable moving forward.
more information but
still
>> I share personal experience with you if
this helps.
>> Sure.
>> I've built three homes with my wife.
They tell you if a marriage can survive
one new home, you've done amazing
things. My wife is and like we didn't
just hire somebody to do it. We were the
general contractors. Um
we always bid high. We always estimated
high and said this is how much we're
going to have to be prepared to spend.
And then we just work like crazy not to
spend that money. In the end, when we
went to borrow the money, we always
borrowed less than what we committed to
the bank. But I had to be able to show
that we had the income to support the
higher loan. I'm taking that very same
mentality into this project right now.
We have to tell high, but we will work
like crazy to come in
as tight as we can. Now, that's going to
also result in you making some decisions
like how fancy is the woodwork going to
be and how nice of a water feature do we
want or maybe we scratch the water
feature.
What I'm telling you today is I think
we're in a position that we have to tell
the bank here's how much money income we
have in order to qualify for this much
of a loan and then we work like crazy to
lower that amount. And I know that's a
very tough thing to say,
but we only have three weeks until the
end of August. And I don't think we're
going to have any better data by then
than we have today on what we need to
take for a tax increase to support that
highest loan. But I will guarantee to
you that I will work like crazy to keep
that amount as low as you want to work
with me on.
I can't make a motion.
>> Are you ready for a motion?
>> If If someone's ready to make a motion,
I'm ready for a motion. If we need more
discussion, I'm happy to entertain more
discussions.
Mayor, I'll make a motion to cons to
pass resolution 2026-1010
adopting the final budget for fiscal
year 2026 2027 and certifying the 2026
property tax rate.
And do we need to designate that as part
of the motion
>> be at at the rate that was presented
with the budget?
>> Correct.
>> Yeah. If you want the exact dollar
amount
if
uh 0001906
for a total revenue of 3,120,87.
» I'll second that motion.
>> Okay. I have a motion from Wall-E and a
second from Eric. Since this is a
resolution, we'll do roll call vote.
We'll start with Wally. I I
>> nay.
» I
3 to two. Motion passes. Thank you.
for everyone's participation
and comments and for the the discussion
among council.
We uh
will continue to have discussion as we
move forward and try to to
contain costs and make it the best
project we can.
Um with that I need a motion to adjurnn.
>> I move
>> second.
>> I have a motion from Rachel and a second
from Wally. You're here. All in favor?
Hi.
>> Hi.
>> Thank you.
>> Saying I'm still waiting interview. I
just