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Good evening. Um my name is Kate Tumi.
I'm chair of the public safety

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committee. Uh to my uh right is um
councelor Tony Economo. Uh Vice

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Chairperson Morris Bergman is delayed a
little bit. He'll be here shortly, but

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we're going to move get moving. Um we're
being clerked by um the assistant clerk

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of the city council uh AJ Fodle. Um we
are joined uh at the desk uh here at

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commissioner of inspection services
Nicholas and Tanavika. Did I say that

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right this time?
I'm sorry. It was deputy city clerk. I

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didn't mean to say give me a different
title. I mean AJ. Um

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and so um we're going to start with
virtual attendee call-in information.

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Thank you. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the
acts of 2021, in order to ensure active

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public engagement, city worester
currently allows for both inerson and

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remote participation at all city council
and standing committee meetings. To

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partake in the meeting, you may attend
the meeting in person within the meeting

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location. Follow the below below link to
join Zoom or dial the direct line as

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indicated. If you join a Zoom meeting by
dialing in with the phone number, you

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can raise your hand by dialing star9.
Public safety committee zoom link is

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https
colon4wisterma.zoomv.comj161-5547889.

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Uh public safety committee zoom phone
number is 16468287666.

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Public safety committee zoom access code
is 161-5547889.

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Um, I'd like to do uh uh ask uh the
deputy city clerk to do a roll call.

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» Councilors Bergman, Economo
>> here,

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» and chairperson councelor Tumi
>> here. Um to approval of the minutes, a

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order that the city council standing
committee of public safety hereby

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approves the minutes of public safety
committee meeting on June 23rd, 2026.

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» So moved.
>> All those in favor post, so voted. Um,

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and then we're going to go to 3A
miscellaneous items. Order of Councelor

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Economo, uh, Councelor Jose Rivera,
Councelor Tumi, Council Rosen, Council

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Blada. Request standing committee on
public safety hold a discussion to

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review the city's ordinance relative to
excessive and unreasonable noise.

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Further requests said discussion include
feasibility of amending the noise

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ordinance to allow the creation of a
special noise variance application for

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churches, festivals, organizations
holding certain events. see attached for

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the western noise ordinance as well as
other municipalities processes that was

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in council July 21st 2026.
Um commissioner, do you want to start on

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that?

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» Just to to review, I understand that
there's been um several questions about

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the enforcement of the noise ordinance
over the last several months. Um we've

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been reviewing the different items that
we have and the enforcability of the

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different statutes uh throughout the
ordinance and then also um what the

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authority is for each department when we
have uh when we come upon upon the

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complaints. Mhm.
>> Um for the the easiest explanation of

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how noise ordinances or noise complaints
are handled, um the the two sentence

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answer is um the police handle people
complaints and ISD handles um things

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complaints. And the way to best describe
that is if you have a loud party or um

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there's loud music coming from some
place or uh loud commotion and yelling

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um the police would respond to that. if
there is a large a loud HVAC unit or

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there's a tonal sound or a buzzing sound
that's coming out of a building or there

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may be a violation of a license, that's
where ISD would get involved. Um, one of

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the one of the bigger um, areas that
we've seen the complaints come in is uh,

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noise complaints about establishments
and the way that we approach those. Um,

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the reason why um, one of the questions
was is how come we don't go out and take

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noise meter readings at establishments
when they when there are loud uh, noise

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complaints? The reason for that is is
that the loud noise is um for lack of a

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better term instantaneous. It may be
continuous for um several minutes or or

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uh a little bit of time, but for the
purposes of using a noise meter, um we

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need to have that established for
several hours in the area in order to

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properly ascertain whether or not a
complaint is uh valid. Um we also need

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to have a base level or a um ambient
level uh for the start of the noise.

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That is something that through um
through our department and the resources

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that we have, we do not have a
continuous ambient noise level um

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registered throughout the city. So if we
are looking into complaints, the first

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thing that would happen would be that um
one of the uh air and water inspectors

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would go out and set up our meters to
establish an ambient level. Then once we

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are able to establish an ambient noise
level, then we would come back and take

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measurements at the time of incident to
determine if something is higher or

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lower. But those are typically measured
over the course of several hours so that

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we can get the range of noise in order
to determine its source and what the uh

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potential solution for fixes. Um going
back I know that there have been several

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complaints uh about establishments and
the way that we have approached those.

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The reason why we have approached those
from a licensing and occupancy

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standpoint is because those are the
areas that we have the most authority

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and most enforcement on. Um affecting
the noise itself is an instantaneous

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um measure and is difficult to enforce
at the the specific time from uh the

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inspectional services um perspective. So
when we do see items like that, we try

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other avenues that um will affect the
business um

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more than just the the instantaneous
noise. So we look at it from do they

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have the proper licenses to do this?
Have they been to the licensing

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commission and have an entertainment
license? Do they have the proper

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occupancy for the type of um event
that's being held there? If they do not

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have that, then we will say that they
don't have that under their occupancy

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laws. So, there are different ways that
we uh enforce the noise ordinance and it

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really depends on the situation um which
one of our enforcement abilities is best

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for that approach.
>> Okay. So, um I have a question for you

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if you don't mind. um when we're aware
of problem properties um after one or

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two calls I would think that we would
maybe go out and establish a

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you know a basic um what did you call it
u

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» ambient
>> yep so

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so that we'd have that established
because if if there's a pattern that

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there's this continuously repeating
issue I I would think that we'd want to

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have that established so that Good.
>> So, with to you counselor, um again with

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a with an establishment though where
it's produced through music or speakers

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or or an item like that,
>> the the ambient um level and then a

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noise meter
>> is not going to provide the the

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instantaneous violation. We know that
the violation is there. That's that's

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the violation as stated through the the
noise ordinance for loud music that be

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that can be heard from the street. So a
meter reading isn't something that is

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going to
change the fact that yes that that is a

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noise complaint. It's how we're able to
enforce the noise complaint um from that

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standpoint on. So if it is an
establishment the way that we enforce

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the enforce the the noises is by the
other avenues.

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» Right. Okay.
>> Yeah.

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» To the council
>> through the chair to the commissioner.

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So, just take me through the process at
the time of licensing.

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» Mhm.
>> I'm a venue. I want to have an event.

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There's going to be a band playing or
DJ. Um, how's that play out at the

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license um commission meeting?
>> Okay. So to you counselor, through the

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chair, um there are two scenarios that
we're looking at uh when we're going in

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front of the licensing commission for an
event of that nature. One is for a

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permanent establishment that wants to
have bands and entertainment. So at that

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point if it is a permanent establishment
um we've gone through uh the rest of the

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inspectional services protocol along
with the health department the food

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inspectors and the building inspectors
to establish um a use for the uh

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building an occupancy for the space and
that it has met all of the safety

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requirements from the different building
codes and fire codes. Once that's done,

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um there is an application made to the
licensing commission. At the licensing

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commission, the establishment will state
what they want that entertainment

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license for. If it will be for TVs, if
it will be for DJs or live musics, at

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which point they will tell the
commission when they want their

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operating hours to be. If it's within
our permitted operating hours, the

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commission usually grants the requested
hours. If it is for extended hours,

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there is a conversation. But uh usually
the commission will limit the uh hours

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of operation within our ordinance hours
so that uh all I believe all um

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entertainment needs to be shut down a
half hour before closing.

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» And what would those be?
>> Uh depending on the establishments,

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establishments can be open till 2 am. So
there are some establishments that uh

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clo that stop their entertainment
between 1 and 1:30. Um there are other

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establishments that close at 12. So they
would stop their entertainment um at

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11:30.
>> So through the if I may through the

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chair, and don't mean to interrupt you,
but I'm just going to cut to the chase.

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» So it's a church,
they're having an event. What are their

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hours of operation? What what is
generally allowed

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through the chair? um what is allowed
for a religious um building or it's a a

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wedding birthday party uh christening.
>> So if it's a if it is a church without a

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venue space then it is not um it's not a
use or the building has not been uh

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classified as a use for that. Um, if we
are looking at the church themselves,

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it's I believe that would be an A1 use.
It's not an an A2 use is the one that

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serves drink and food and has
entertainment. Those have different

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safety criteria than other A uses. A
uses are assembly uses. So those would

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be areas like churches, synagogues,
gyms, um, bars, and other and other

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items. So that's that is where if we
were going for a church going to

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licensing commission they would have to
ask for a special one-day entertainment

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license in order to have the event there
that their space is not permitted for.

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At that point uh going forward at the
licensing commission it would be

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advertised the abutters would be known
uh that there was a request made for a

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one-day license and then the licensing
commission would hear um the applicants

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as well as any abutters that would have
any concerns about the one day license

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being issued.
>> So on that

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» go ahead
>> if I may through the chair. So in that

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in that discussion in that granting of
the license is

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is um
say a gym we want to use it for a

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wedding reception u a celebration of
some sort

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you issue the one day license or the one
the one time license. Does that come

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with hours of operation?
Does that come with allowable

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sound? Like it's like are you saying to
are you saying to the the applicant,

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look, um you can run up to I don't even
know. I don't I couldn't even tell you

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what's an allowable sound. So um and
maybe you can explain what that

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allowable sound is. Um
and at midnight or 11 a.m. 11:00 p.m.

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it's done. it's got to be shut down
because I know in my experiences at some

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of the festivals that I'm familiar with,
um it's pretty much clockwork.

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» You know, whether the license was issued
till midnight, I can tell you at 11:30

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it's shutting down and security and
police on site are escorting people out,

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right? There's no
um I haven't seen a mincing of words at

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that at all. But in other locations, I
see a lot of self- freedom.

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Um, and it affects the neighbors. So,
that's what I'm trying to get that's

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what I'm trying to get to the bottom of.
>> No. Uh, through the chair, um, it

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becomes
a want on the side of the establishment

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as well, um, to control their patrons
and the events that are occurring there.

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Um, as far as the entertainment license,
there is also a request on that

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application for amplified music. So,
that would be where the potential for

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the loud noise would be coming from if
that is the case. Um, yes, they can

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request a a permit for amplified music
that allows for loud music to be played.

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Um, I believe that there are some
conditions that say uh certain things

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can't be heard by, you know, by more
than 50 feet at the edge of a certain

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property line in those areas for for the
limits of that. Um, and yes, hours of

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the event are conditioned on the one-day
entertainment amplified um music.

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» So those, if I may, I'm sorry.
>> Go ahead.

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» Um, through the chair. So those hours of
operation are the hours of operation. So

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again, say it was from 6:00 p.m. to
midnight. Um,

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from from what I'm hearing, at 11:30,
they need to shut it down and by

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midnight everybody needs to be gone. If
those were the conditions put in on the

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license, yes, that would be through the
chair. Yes. So if they go past midnight,

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say till 1:00 p.m. 1:00 a.m.
through the chair, then that would be a

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that would be a violation. Okay.
>> So how is that handled?

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If we through the chair, if we are made
aware of the violation, um then people

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if if we are made aware of the violation
and the time to go out and confirm that

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it is occurring, then uh depending on
the responding group, um the the

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instructions will be to shut down and
and a fine will be issued. Yeah,

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» I I have a question and then
>> I know you're in a in a role here, but I

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I did was So, your inspectors would go
out at 1:00 in the morning

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» through the chair. No. Uh the the ISD
inspectors are not responding to noise

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complaints at 1 one in the morning. The
only typically the only complaints that

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we're responding to at night are fires
and uh displacements.

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» Okay.
Thank you.

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» If I may,
>> you may

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» through the chair. So, is the noise
ordinance in place then till midnight

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or is it is there no is there no noise
ordinance period if they're issued that

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permit to have their event through the
chair? No, the noise ordinance is always

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in effect. They just need to follow the
rules of their their permit that they

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receive. um that permit allows for
certain exemptions to the noise

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ordinance once uh the the licensing
commission issues um that that license.

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So if through the chair, if I may,
>> yes, you may. Um,

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so if an establishment is
violating their permit,

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music continues to go on, it's affecting
the neighborhood, the neighborhood's

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call is to probably 911 or maybe the
non-emergency number and police would be

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the determining factor at that point. uh
through the chair uh that yes the the

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responding department would be the
determining factor at that time

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» and from the police department's point
of view I'm sorry through the chair the

208
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police department's point of view
um all of this is triaged right their

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calls are I'm sure triaged from
importance and this may just keep

210
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getting bumped down and bumped down
bumped down bumped down as other motor

211
00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:30,159
vehicle accident shooting are going to
take precedence through the chair I am

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00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:34,559
not familiar with the the police
officers response protocols. I do not

213
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,360
want to answer for them.
>> Okay, that's fine.

214
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,360
» Chief, maybe the chief can respond to
that.

215
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:48,360
» Thank you, Chief.
>> Thanks, Chief.

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00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:56,799
Through the chair of council, that's
correct. Everything is triaged. So if

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00:23:52,799 --> 00:24:03,039
you have a more um emergency like call
that's going to take sometimes those

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00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:05,440
loud or uh noisy calls that come in
could be delayed several hours.

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00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:08,960
» Yeah.
>> And it happens you know that's change of

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00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,960
shift. Right. Sure.
>> Most of the calls that happen at 12 1:00

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in the morning we are changing shifts
and

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» officers have to go to those more
pressing calls.

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» So if I may
>> certainly

224
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» you can cut me off at any time. I'm
sorry.

225
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:28,000
Um,
so in a situation like that, the police

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get called, they'll get there when they
can get there. They arrive on scene.

227
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um either it's it's done
or it's continuing.

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But it sounds to me that we don't have
the ability to

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00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:53,600
um test maybe is if that's the right
word or find out if they are violating

230
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:57,760
the noise ordinance. We know they're
violating the time ordinance. They could

231
00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:02,880
be violating the noise ordinance, but we
don't Am I safe to assume we don't have

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noise meters? You know, I'm sure the
police aren't carrying noise meters

233
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:10,640
around with them
through the council. That's correct. We

234
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:16,679
do not have noise meters.
>> So, when a when an entity continues to

235
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constantly violate

236
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:23,080
their
license to operate their event,

237
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how is that? How is that um information
sent forth to the license commission? So

238
00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:38,960
when they come back again for another
license to have that event

239
00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:43,279
um it's either further scrutinized or
it's just denied.

240
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:49,279
I don't know through the share of
council if it was a police related call

241
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:55,360
and it's a problem property. so many
calls within so much period of time.

242
00:25:52,559 --> 00:25:59,679
That information is related to the
license commission as far as the liquor

243
00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:04,799
license if there is one. If there's no
liquor license, I believe that falls

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00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:11,279
towards inspectional services
>> through the chair. Um we we do notify

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00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:16,240
the council. Um uh our the licensing
commission um liaison is in the ISD

246
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:21,440
department. So we we coordinate with
them and then if there is uh an issue

247
00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:26,000
with an establishment I go to the
licensing commission meetings and and

248
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:29,039
speak on behalf of ISD if we have
concerns

249
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:34,320
if I may.
>> Yeah. One more.

250
00:26:29,919 --> 00:26:40,159
» Is is parking part of their licensing
through the chair? Uh no. So they can

251
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:44,960
park anywhere they want. They can park
in their spa their building's property.

252
00:26:43,279 --> 00:26:50,880
they're free to park it on a butter's
property and so forth. So through the

253
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:55,360
chair, no, that's not that's not
acceptable. They just they don't have

254
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:58,880
the ability to grant permission for
people to park anywhere. That doesn't

255
00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:05,600
give people permission to park wherever
they want. The licensing commission just

256
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:11,360
doesn't have the ability to give people
permission to park places. So, regarding

257
00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:15,520
that, if they're parking on a public
street, there's no

258
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:19,440
even though it might be in front of
somebody's house, there's no way to stop

259
00:27:17,679 --> 00:27:21,679
that because it's a public street.
Correct.

260
00:27:20,159 --> 00:27:25,919
» Through the chair. Well, that would
depend on the parking signs in that

261
00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:32,080
area. If there were any parking
restrictions at that point, it would be

262
00:27:27,679 --> 00:27:37,360
a mobility and traffic um violation.
>> So, I I I guess my big concern is

263
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:41,200
striking a balance, right? If there's
anything, you got to have a balance. If

264
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:44,000
there's no balance, somebody's not
having a good time, right? And and the

265
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:49,279
area,
>> you know, unfortunately, I'm dealing

266
00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:54,960
with two houses of worship that seem to
be the biggest problems I've been

267
00:27:52,559 --> 00:28:02,399
dealing with in the last eight months.
And um in some cases, I feel okay, maybe

268
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:08,559
a little leniency should be given to
them. But

269
00:28:05,279 --> 00:28:13,520
the more I'm hearing it myself and
seeing it, uh, I'm starting to believe

270
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:17,120
the latter and it's becoming a problem.
And it's becoming a problem in an area

271
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:25,039
where people are trying to have quiet
enjoyment of their own property. And,

272
00:28:21,679 --> 00:28:29,200
you know, I could see a one-off festival
as you see it throughout the city. It's

273
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:33,679
not every month. It's not every week,
but there are instances in some some of

274
00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:40,080
these organizations where it's
weekly, monthly, multiple nights a week

275
00:28:36,399 --> 00:28:45,440
and it's getting out of control and
um

276
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:52,720
I don't feel we have the teeth in our
ordinance to handle it. Um and with

277
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:56,720
that, Madame Chair, through you maybe a
chairman's order is to significantly

278
00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:06,880
raise
>> um the violation fee. So it does hurt

279
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:09,039
uh within the standards of the law that
we

280
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:13,120
» Yeah. Yeah. Right. You know, I think
it's got to be looked at because I saw

281
00:29:10,559 --> 00:29:16,000
in here was $50 and if that's the fee,
it's like, "Yeah, whatever. I'll give

282
00:29:14,559 --> 00:29:18,559
you the $50. I'm going to have a great
time."

283
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:24,399
» So, I I want to say uh and I know
councelor Bergman has uh been here for a

284
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:28,000
while as well that this is not just this
year, not it was in your term before the

285
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:34,240
last.
>> Yes, I understand two terms before that.

286
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:39,039
So, it's been an ongoing issue. Um, and
it's something that I think that the

287
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:44,720
neighborhoods really have been dealing
with a lot. And so, I think, um, this is

288
00:29:41,919 --> 00:29:48,640
a good first step to um, increase the
the fine. Um

289
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:54,720
» because even and if I may through the
chair even with that too if there's a

290
00:29:51,120 --> 00:30:01,440
problem property then I think it's now I
think it's it falls upon us to find what

291
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:06,799
the ambient noise level is
>> you know and maybe incrementally find

292
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:15,200
that out you know from 20T 30t 40T 50
100 ft so we have a baseline and then I

293
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:22,080
feel also that at some point
somebody on shift in the police

294
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:23,760
department should be tasked with a sound
whatever you I don't know what you call

295
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,159
them
>> sound meter

296
00:30:24,399 --> 00:30:29,919
» sound meter
um and I understand that that's not

297
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:36,000
always the case where you're going to be
there at the moment things are happening

298
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:42,159
um but we do have a permit
of hours of operation and

299
00:30:39,919 --> 00:30:45,200
from what I'm seeing and hearing there's
violations there and again I'm not

300
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,840
trying
I get it cuz my church they, you know,

301
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:55,919
they have a huge festival every other
year and as do many, but it's for three

302
00:30:52,559 --> 00:31:00,799
days and like I said, I I feel they at
the end of the day when 11:30 comes,

303
00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:04,159
they're literally clearing the place
out. The music stops, they're clearing

304
00:31:02,399 --> 00:31:12,159
the place out. The police, the security
on site are ushering people out the

305
00:31:07,679 --> 00:31:19,360
door. And I think that should be the way
um throughout. And on top of that, while

306
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:27,760
I'm on my soap box, is it required to
have Worcester police present

307
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:33,520
at any event of that nature?
Through the to the chair. Um that's a

308
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:37,679
that's a determination of the licensing
commission and the people that are

309
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:42,799
there. As far as the conditions for
large events, we always uh request a

310
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:46,720
police detail or make sure that the
police are going to be there along with

311
00:31:44,399 --> 00:31:53,279
fire department members and inspectional
services members depending on the event.

312
00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:57,840
Um regarding some of these items, um we
have taken in we've heard the concerns.

313
00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:03,120
We have taken into consideration a lot
of the items that are there. One of the

314
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:08,000
items that we were deficient on in
inspectional services was the way that

315
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:12,399
we were documenting these complaints.
So, we've made some changes on the way

316
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:17,440
that we go about doing the documentation
and speaking with the people and then

317
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:22,080
also making notices to those uh to those
establishments so that we have a better

318
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:27,200
record so that when we move forward with
strengthened enforcement, there is a a

319
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:31,440
track line and then a better case if we
end up taking it to the full extent

320
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:37,760
where we would go to court to to remove
a license or add additional sanctions.

321
00:32:34,399 --> 00:32:40,799
And again, I'm not I appreciate all that
you guys do. You can only do what you

322
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:44,640
can do, right? And I appreciate that.
And I think it's incumbent upon the

323
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:50,480
council, too, to be part of the solution
as well. Um,

324
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:56,799
and I and again, I'm it pulls at me in
both directions because I understand

325
00:32:54,799 --> 00:33:04,640
the church wanting to use its properties
for its purposes, right? But when it

326
00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:10,000
when it contin continuously becomes
a problem in any neighborhood,

327
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:14,799
um I think that's when we need to step
in and really take a look at it. And I

328
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:21,279
would like to think that the license
commission is aware of every violation

329
00:33:18,399 --> 00:33:27,679
an entity would have if it's been
habitual for years because then I think

330
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:33,480
it's a it comes upon the license
commission to be a little more stern in

331
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,480
their dealings.

332
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,960
» I'll leave it at that.
>> Okay.

333
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:43,840
» Thank you. Um before we go on um AJ uh
we'll have a chairman's order uh

334
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:50,559
requesting um the law department to
identify um how uh

335
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:57,120
how high we can uh significantly raise
the fee the fine for noise ordinance.

336
00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:00,480
» Thank you Madam Chair. Absolutely. And
uh would you like to that to include a

337
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,679
draft ordinance once that's determined?
>> Yes, please.

338
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,360
» Thank you.
>> Thank you. All right. Do you have any if

339
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:10,480
you don't mind? Nope.
>> Madam Chair, let the law department

340
00:34:07,679 --> 00:34:16,320
answer that, but just for purposes
to know how far or how little we can go

341
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:19,839
with the incentive or disincentive, I
think it's $300. So, but we'll wait for

342
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:26,800
the law department to come back and give
us that answer. I have a kind of a

343
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:31,760
similar take, Councelor Conamu. Um, but
I have a couple questions and maybe

344
00:34:28,879 --> 00:34:36,879
slightly variant on on what's being
asked. It's been a while, but somebody

345
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:42,800
applies through the chair for a license
for this one-day event. Um, let's get

346
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:46,159
scheduled for the lodge through the
license commission. Is that correct?

347
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,599
» Yes, through the chair. Yes.
>> And where do notices go? Who do they go

348
00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:55,440
to?
>> Through the chair. Um, I'm depending on

349
00:34:52,720 --> 00:35:01,200
the event that goes in, it goes out on
uh on a public notice, but I don't know

350
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:03,599
if it's a full of butters list or if
it's just the Jason properties where it

351
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,720
goes to
>> because here's where I'm going with it.

352
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:12,079
Try to cut to the chase on it. Seems to
me that we may have reached the point

353
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:16,800
given the inability and it's not a
criticism, it's reality of being able to

354
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:20,800
monitor every one day license we have
out there that there should be an

355
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:25,200
abutters list and there should be a
hearing. If nobody if everybody's

356
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:29,760
content with the event, then nobody's
going to show up and complain. If people

357
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:34,079
have had a prior history of a bad
experience with the event, they're going

358
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:38,079
to point out the issues that the license
commission has to address with the

359
00:35:36,079 --> 00:35:40,480
petitioner. What time are you going to
stop? How do we know you're going to

360
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:47,359
stop? You're going to have a police
officer there on a private detail. Um I

361
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:52,400
I will you pay for a noise monitor so
that you can see if you're violating the

362
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:56,320
noise um ordinance,
so on and so forth. Why not? I don't

363
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:59,839
think it's too much to put the burden on
the applicant. If they're doing nothing

364
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:02,320
wrong and the neighbors are happy,
they're not going to have to do anything

365
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:07,520
more than they already do except for
show up for hearing. If they're creating

366
00:36:05,119 --> 00:36:10,560
an event that's creating chaos in the
neighborhood, then they're going to hear

367
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:14,960
it. But that's what we do with almost
every hearing. We invite the neighbors

368
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:20,640
and we tell them, "What's your input?
What's going what's good and what's

369
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:25,520
not." I mean, I I think that in the old
days, maybe we could have gotten away

370
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:28,800
without having that kind of um input
from the neighbors because I think the

371
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:33,839
Well, let me ask you this through the
chair. Do you know um Commissioner has a

372
00:36:31,599 --> 00:36:38,320
number of requests gone up or down over
the last few years, exclude CO for

373
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:43,599
requests for these licenses, these
one-day liquor licenses? through the

374
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:46,800
chair. Um, without having the the data
in front of me, just from seeing the

375
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,440
number of hearings, I would say that
we've seen an increase

376
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,800
» because I would think they've
exponentially gone up

377
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,599
» and I don't think we can handle it
anymore without having hearings.

378
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,079
» That's just my
>> that's my own opinion

379
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:02,480
» through the chair. The other thing that
we're noticing as well is that it's not

380
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:06,640
just the increase of the number of
events, it's the size of the events. All

381
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:11,359
of the events are starting to grow, too.
Well, that well, that just makes me feel

382
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:16,079
even more um
I don't want to use the word confident,

383
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:20,400
but feel more that the direction we
should be going in is to consider um

384
00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:23,920
what is what would a permitting process
look like in the sense of public notice.

385
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:28,880
And I don't know if madam chair's
interest in chairperson's order, but I

386
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:33,680
don't see the burden on doing that
because I think most of these are going

387
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:38,640
to be routine check the box, but the
larger ones may require more work as far

388
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:43,920
as getting the answers to these
questions.

389
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:47,200
» All right, AJ, get that chairman's
order.

390
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:52,000
» Sure thing, Madam Chair. Got it. And by
the way, the last comment is the ones

391
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:56,560
that have had successful events in the
past are probably going to sail through

392
00:37:54,640 --> 00:38:00,320
any sort of hearing because everybody
knows they do the right thing. So ones

393
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:04,240
that don't do the right thing are going
to kind of get stopped in their tracks

394
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:09,599
and it's a way I think and maybe the
only way um

395
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:16,800
to stop the bad behavior.
So, um, the increase in number, what is

396
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:20,000
the the for every venue they have a
limit of how many people that they can

397
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:26,079
get it? We we're finding out that
they're they're not um complying with

398
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:30,800
that that they're overstepping the the
numbers

399
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:36,480
» through the chair. That's that's one um
item that we're finding in places.

400
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:43,200
That's not always the the issue um is
over capacity. Uh again, it it could be

401
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:46,640
that they're uh playing amplified music
without having the proper license or

402
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:51,200
they're going too late. So, it's not
it's not always an over capacity, but

403
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:56,960
yes, every place that does have a
license or is a place of assembly has a

404
00:38:54,880 --> 00:39:02,560
capacity limit that's provided that they
cannot go over. councelor

405
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:08,720
» through the chair.
At at the beginning of a shift or a day

406
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:14,960
or an evening, are the police notified
of what events are going on in the city?

407
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:20,720
» Is there a is there a list that goes out
to

408
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:23,599
the officers just so they are aware
what's going on and where it's going on

409
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:28,800
at
>> through the chair. Uh we do not have a

410
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:35,359
daily list that goes out. uh to the
police. We do uh coordinate um with our

411
00:39:32,079 --> 00:39:39,440
officers on a weekly basis. Um we meet
every Wednesday and go through uh the

412
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:43,119
different events that are going on and
different items that are coming up at

413
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:48,400
the licensing commission, discuss if
there are any issues at that point and

414
00:39:45,359 --> 00:39:54,560
then make any determinations or or take
any actions that are necessary.

415
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:59,440
» It's a weekly weekly report. Yeah.
So, so I guess what what really got my

416
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:05,760
goat on this
the entity I'm referencing and I

417
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:11,680
appreciate all that you've done to help
you. I was lied to right to my face and

418
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:18,160
that's right. That's right.
You know, first time meeting

419
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:23,760
lied to right out of the gate and that's
I'm all set. So, you know, my

420
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:29,280
responsibility is not to try to keep I
want to try to keep the peace, but I

421
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:37,000
don't I lose a lot of respect for people
like that. So, that's what I'm I'm going

422
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:37,000
to fight this as far as I can.

423
00:40:37,119 --> 00:40:40,720
» Council, do you have another another
question?

424
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:45,599
» I am also
>> So, um, so we've got two chairman

425
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:50,240
reports uh coming back. Is there
anything else that uh you would

426
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:54,599
recommend that we take a look at maybe
get a list of um

427
00:40:54,800 --> 00:41:00,319
» yeah you know I don't again I don't know
how it would look like from the police

428
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:04,800
side of things I I actually agree with
council Bergman I think the burden

429
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:06,640
should be put on to the
applicant

430
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,480
» absolutely
>> to police

431
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:17,119
but I think I think it's our
responsibility to have the baseline

432
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:23,280
» right we're this is the baseline so
whatever fit you know 50 dB is the

433
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:28,560
number then you know at 20 feet 30 feet
40 50 100 feet this is what I expect to

434
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:33,599
hear for if you go over this you're in
violation if you go past your permit

435
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:38,240
you're in violation and I think all that
should come back to the to the license

436
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:44,319
commission they should have that
information in front of them how many

437
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:51,680
times it happens um has happened and
continues to happen and then I think as

438
00:41:47,599 --> 00:41:58,000
council Bergman said whether it's every
abutter and their abutters. I don't know

439
00:41:54,560 --> 00:42:04,640
how far the noise level goes or how it
travels in in air. Um I think it might

440
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:10,240
be time to notify the abuters and they
can come down to the license commission

441
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:16,480
or file their their report on what they
experience on a regular basis.

442
00:42:13,119 --> 00:42:21,920
So um then we're requesting requesting a
change in the whole policy and having

443
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:26,720
those um problem properties will be
required to uh come down to uh hearing.

444
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:31,520
» Yeah, I will
>> and and in addition to that I want want

445
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:36,720
to ask the chief um because you had
suggested it that the uh officers have a

446
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:40,480
meter in their trunk but I have a
question would that require that would

447
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:45,040
require training. How much time would
that be?

448
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:49,200
through the through the chair for the
ISD staff members to get trained. It

449
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:54,319
took a couple of days. First, it's to
learn how to take the readings, set up

450
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:59,119
the meters, observe, watch it happening.
And then the second day is to learn how

451
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:02,640
to read the results. So, going through
and looking at the different noise

452
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:07,040
results, each of the different pitches
mean different things and different

453
00:43:04,079 --> 00:43:14,079
items. So, it's about two days to
>> So, I'm I'm thinking is it possible to

454
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:19,440
instead of having an officer do it?
There's certainly a lot of other things

455
00:43:16,079 --> 00:43:24,079
out there. Is it possible to um
reschedule somebody's time so that

456
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:28,720
they're available later in the evening?
Um I'm just thinking about

457
00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:32,800
» through the through the chair. I have a
lot of staff that is always interested

458
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:36,240
in overtime. I think that we could
figure something out.

459
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:41,200
So it just I mean it seems to me like
this it's kind of a specialty in

460
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:46,000
» through the chair. Yes, it is. Um it's
it's the the meters are very sensitive

461
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:50,160
as well depending on the the kind we
get. I believe we have one of the more

462
00:43:48,319 --> 00:43:56,960
sensitive ones for it. They're
>> they're $6,500 uh device um in order to

463
00:43:54,480 --> 00:44:00,880
get the proper tonal readings that we
are looking for when it goes through. So

464
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:04,640
uh yes, we can definitely make those
adjustments.

465
00:44:02,079 --> 00:44:07,040
That seems to make more more sense to
me.

466
00:44:05,839 --> 00:44:12,480
» Sure. Go ahead.
>> Just just one last thought maybe

467
00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:16,319
question. You know, I'm all for the uh
the meter readings and all that, but it

468
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:20,240
seems to me going back to to what we
talked about earlier. There's a process

469
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:23,440
and I don't know exactly what it's going
to look like, if it's going to happen at

470
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,960
all, but something along the lines of
what we were talking about the abuters

471
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:31,920
getting notified. The beauty of that to
me is that whether there's a meter that

472
00:44:29,119 --> 00:44:35,280
we have uh that we used or when we
weren't able to use because we didn't

473
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:39,119
have it or we got there too late or was
on the border and somebody really wasn't

474
00:44:37,119 --> 00:44:44,400
sure how to interpret it. All that
matters, but it matters to me less than

475
00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:48,480
how the people in the neighborhood felt
about how it went because invariably,

476
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:51,680
I'm going to guess, you could tell me
I'm all wrong and I'm sure we don't have

477
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:54,960
the numbers, but we probably could get
them. I'm going to guess that the

478
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:59,839
majority of applicants are repeat
applicants. There's an event all the

479
00:44:57,359 --> 00:45:05,760
time, once, twice, maybe more times a
year. So, the system, if we were to

480
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:10,000
adopt some sort of hearing, would
regulate itself in some ways without

481
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:14,160
even a noise meter because once the
neighbors got noticed and they say, you

482
00:45:11,599 --> 00:45:19,200
know what, last time you guys abused the
privilege of having uh the liquor

483
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:22,640
license because you didn't play the
rules, you were too loud, you went on

484
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:27,440
too long, whatever. So yes, I agree we
need a meter, but uh noise meter,

485
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:32,160
whatever the proper term is. But I also
really would like us all to think about

486
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:37,359
what some sort of process would look
like where the neighborhood input um can

487
00:45:35,599 --> 00:45:40,960
really have a major effect because right
now I I'm guessing nobody shows up.

488
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:45,200
Those meetings, by the way, at the
license commission, if I remember,

489
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:49,119
they're during the day um as well.
They're not exactly the time that a lot

490
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,920
of people that are working are going to
show up

491
00:45:49,839 --> 00:45:57,920
» through through the chair. Yes, they are
from 10 to 12 on the 2nd and fourth

492
00:45:55,839 --> 00:46:03,040
Thursday of each month. So, they're
they're a little bit uh not convenient

493
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:08,480
for uh working members, but we do have
the online option if people are able to

494
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:13,359
to remote in if they have concerns. Um,
one item that I do want to bring up is

495
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:18,720
that we are talking about um having the
hearings and people coming in and what

496
00:46:15,839 --> 00:46:23,440
we do to to people with licenses if they
violate it. One of the the issues that

497
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:27,760
we've been dealing with though is that
one of the places that has been of the

498
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:32,960
biggest concern hasn't been going for
the licenses and hasn't been getting um

499
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:37,119
the one days or going before the board.
That's why we were having such

500
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:41,680
difficulty in enforcing certain things
and why we took certain tactics because

501
00:46:40,079 --> 00:46:45,680
they were not coming in front of the
board in order to get a license for us

502
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:49,520
to put forth these things. We were
getting complaints because they were

503
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:52,720
having these events without going to the
board.

504
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:57,440
» So through the sorry
>> so what's what is the uh

505
00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:00,960
» what's the end result for this
>> through the chair that's

506
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:08,000
» this particular entity? Well, through
the chair, that's why we had started the

507
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:14,560
process in order to uh revoke their
certificate of occupancy and uh come in

508
00:47:11,839 --> 00:47:18,880
and and add the additional um
enforcement items that we did by

509
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:25,280
declaring the building unsafe for those
type of events and and those items. So,

510
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:31,359
we did take certain actions. We were we
were told that the uh activities were

511
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:36,319
going to stop. We were under the
impression that they had and then we we

512
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:41,359
received some notifications over the
weekend that they had not. So we are

513
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:43,760
going to be looking into some additional
enforcement for that area

514
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:48,319
» such as
>> well we have to determine if it's a a

515
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:52,560
oneoff for this weekend because again
for the last three months we haven't had

516
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:57,839
any complaints. If it was a oneoffer
this weekend and we have the evidence to

517
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:02,800
prove it, they'll be issued a fine and
told, you know, please, you know, don't

518
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:07,440
do it again. If it continues, then we
will take the additional actions that we

519
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:13,240
threatened before up to the removal of
occupancy for that building.

520
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:13,240
council.

521
00:48:15,119 --> 00:48:23,520
» I see that as a complete disrespect
of the neighborhood,

522
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:27,839
yourself, and the people that you are
allowing

523
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:33,680
to use your property. Something goes
wrong,

524
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:38,160
who we got major problems. If something
goes wrong in a building like that, and

525
00:48:35,599 --> 00:48:42,400
again, I'm not this isn't coming at you
or the or the chief, but just thinking

526
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:50,079
about it, it's like that's a complete
disrespect to all of us. And

527
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:53,440
if the fine is a $50 fine,
send all the fines you want. That's why

528
00:48:51,599 --> 00:48:59,599
I asked for that. Um,
>> right.

529
00:48:55,280 --> 00:49:03,920
And then I also I I got to think is
when do you just put a chain around the

530
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:08,000
whole place and just lock it up?
>> So through the through the

531
00:49:05,359 --> 00:49:13,359
» And it floors me too where it's coming
this is coming from a house of worship

532
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:16,720
not not not
Joe Schmo

533
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:21,599
» down the street. I understand through
the chair that was part of the reason

534
00:49:18,319 --> 00:49:25,920
why we went um we used the building code
for enforcement because through the

535
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:30,240
building code I can find up to $1,000
for each violation and that's what we

536
00:49:28,319 --> 00:49:34,160
were planning on doing for the for the
continued enforcement was to to go for

537
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:39,200
the higher fines.
>> Um I believe that that does send a

538
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:44,240
message when people are are not
following what they need to do. So I I

539
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:49,440
do try and find the maximum possible and
get them up as high as we can so that we

540
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:54,640
can get the attention that we need to
resolve the situation.

541
00:49:50,960 --> 00:50:02,400
» Okay. So can we have um for chairman's
quarter? Can we have a a report on this

542
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:08,079
process step by step? Um
including you know

543
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:12,800
contacting the neighbors and
uh and I think you should also um have

544
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:18,960
identify a list of problem properties
for the past year or two years. Um

545
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:24,960
and I think that would be that would be
helpful too. um

546
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:29,760
and then uh come back with that
proposed. Is that something um AJ is

547
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:35,599
that something that we have to approve
council when they change the policy or

548
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:39,680
is that something that's done
>> with Madam Chair? I think it may make

549
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:44,319
the most sense to get a report on the
policy and then any changes that may be

550
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:48,640
» that could be implemented as a result of
them. I I don't know. It sounds

551
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:54,240
administrative in nature the policy
itself, but Um the ordinance would

552
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:58,480
definitely fall under um city council
authority. For example, if we do

553
00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:04,160
increase the fines, um that would be an
ordinance that we would need to update.

554
00:51:01,599 --> 00:51:06,240
Um but that would be um the extent that
I can think of off the top of my head

555
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:10,720
right now.
>> Okay. All right.

556
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:15,839
» Yeah, Madam Chair, I think this is a
great place to start. I I also

557
00:51:14,079 --> 00:51:19,760
» when that report comes back, we can
bring it back to committee and I, you

558
00:51:17,359 --> 00:51:22,800
know, I'd like us to at least take a
look at some other communities and what

559
00:51:21,119 --> 00:51:24,640
they're doing with their uh
>> right

560
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,720
» permitting process and
>> some best practices.

561
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:31,520
» Yeah.
>> Because I think um it might be time for

562
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:36,240
a change on how we handle it or even log
it into our system

563
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:44,800
um for enforcement.
>> Yeah. Very good. Uh so uh this

564
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:48,400
particular order we can we can uh file
and then we'll have that come back to

565
00:51:47,119 --> 00:51:51,760
the committee.
>> All right.

566
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:54,640
» All right. Um all those in favor so
voted. Thank you very much commissioner.

567
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,640
I appreciate it.
>> Thank you.

568
00:51:55,280 --> 00:52:03,760
» Thank you gentlemen.
>> Thank you commission uh chief for uh

569
00:51:59,359 --> 00:52:06,960
popping in on that. Um now we have uh 4A
uh transmitting informationational

570
00:52:05,359 --> 00:52:14,559
communication relative to the hospital
guard police department chief

571
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:19,920
» to the chair. So
whenever anybody is in our custody we

572
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:23,920
basically
own that person as far as anything that

573
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:28,960
happens to them. If they're hurt
whatever we have to make sure they

574
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:33,520
receive treatment. So, if you are being
detained in our building, we have to

575
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:38,960
take you to the hospital. In order to do
that, we need to have an officer

576
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:45,359
with the arrestee as they go to the
hospital, they're handcuffed, and if the

577
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:51,119
handcuffs need to come off to be
treated, we do that. So, some incidents

578
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:55,680
they go up there for a relatively short
time, other times they could be up there

579
00:52:53,359 --> 00:53:00,079
for days. We try to work with the clerk
magistrate to have them bailed if it is

580
00:52:58,559 --> 00:53:07,480
available
um arrest. Sometimes that does not work.

581
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:07,480
So if you look at

582
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:17,040
last year 2025 we spent
we had 733 hospital guards totaling

583
00:53:15,119 --> 00:53:22,720
6,758
hours. So those officers come off the

584
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:27,520
street and they're at the hospital
obviously only paying attention to one

585
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:34,079
thing and that is the arresty. So that
does not help with any type of crime

586
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:40,240
reduction. Same thing for uh 2026
from January to April we had 251

587
00:53:38,319 --> 00:53:48,480
for 3,244
hours. So realistically the only way to

588
00:53:45,359 --> 00:53:52,240
do something different is to have people
staged on overtime. You can call the

589
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:54,880
problem is the weekends,
>> right?

590
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:57,359
» And
you know, we can only have so many

591
00:53:56,319 --> 00:54:01,839
people off.
>> Yep.

592
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:06,160
» During the week and we max maximize what
they can do on the weekends. Everybody

593
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:11,760
wants a weekend off. Unfortunately, we
don't get them. So

594
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:17,839
when you have three or four arrestes at
the hospital now you get approximately

595
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:23,599
15 to 16 police officers
uh policing a city of 210,000.

596
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:28,400
It's not too good.
>> No, not at all. Um,

597
00:54:26,240 --> 00:54:33,680
so
I'm just looking have um, so these

598
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:39,040
individuals when they're in the
emergency room um, they're in a regular

599
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:43,200
they're either in the hall which is
where a lot of people are these days

600
00:54:41,119 --> 00:54:49,280
holding um, or they're in a regular
room. There's no secure

601
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:54,960
uh, area.
Would that be helpful if you talked to

602
00:54:52,319 --> 00:54:56,480
the hospitals to establish a secure
>> unit

603
00:54:55,359 --> 00:55:00,160
» unit?
>> Uh to the chair, the problem is it's not

604
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:03,760
just us.
>> Uh Wisconsin sheriff's department has to

605
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:08,079
go to hospital. Other
>> agencies outside of Wister Hass. So I

606
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:13,440
don't know how they could secure a
location just for arrestes.

607
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:16,240
» So as you said, usually they're in the
hallway.

608
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:21,920
» Very rarely are they in a room unless
they're being admitted

609
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:29,200
» for several days. Okay. Um, is there is
is there any other way that you could

610
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:32,200
think of? I I think I've I don't know.
Uh,

611
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:40,079
than what we're doing. Is there anything
any other departments doing that's

612
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:45,440
ameliating the situation or
to the chair? We can't really

613
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:49,920
put us up against other departments.
We're the second largest police

614
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:55,839
department in New England. So
we are trying to do things through

615
00:55:51,520 --> 00:56:00,720
contract negotiations as far as hours
>> um that's still out there where

616
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:05,119
different hours that the officers work.
That would be one solution but we have

617
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:07,440
to wait until that
>> comes to fruition. We can't do anything

618
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:11,839
with it now.
>> Sometimes if I may.

619
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:17,680
» Yep. Sure.
>> So each through the chair if to the

620
00:56:15,119 --> 00:56:25,319
chief if
If a root officer is on his way to the

621
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:25,319
hospital with a patient

622
00:56:25,599 --> 00:56:34,400
and then another call comes in, that
root officer also

623
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:37,920
is with that person. So there's two
officers with two different people.

624
00:56:36,079 --> 00:56:42,960
Correct. For security through the chair
of the counselor. The person under

625
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:47,920
arrest will be going by wagon.
>> Yep. and the officer is called to leave

626
00:56:45,839 --> 00:56:48,880
his or her route to go up to the
hospital.

627
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:54,480
» Okay?
>> So now you have two officers in route.

628
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:58,000
If another call comes in for another
prisoner going up, then you have another

629
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:01,920
officer coming up.
>> So realistically,

630
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:04,319
» we've I think it was this week I get I
get a thing every eight hours on what's

631
00:57:03,599 --> 00:57:07,520
going on. And
>> yeah,

632
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:13,040
» we uh I think we had four or five on
Sunday.

633
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:16,559
» So what would um I I guess
just trying to think how you would

634
00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:21,200
handle something like that even even on
overtime, right? Because you could have

635
00:57:18,079 --> 00:57:26,319
a day where it's just quiet and nobody
goes or you get a a day like you had

636
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:30,960
where you had five going. Um
>> how would how would that any idea how

637
00:57:28,559 --> 00:57:34,640
that might look?
>> Three chair council, you'd have to put

638
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,960
people like on a standby.
>> Yeah.

639
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:40,480
» Like a call.
And we would try to only do that with

640
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:43,040
people being admitted
>> because it's just it's just

641
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:46,079
» overwhelming.
>> It'd be very very difficult.

642
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:51,119
» Crazy.
>> We tried it for a little while a couple

643
00:57:47,839 --> 00:57:54,920
years back, but it really wasn't u
didn't work out too well.

644
00:57:57,119 --> 00:58:00,880
» No, you're ready.
>> Go ahead.

645
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:08,079
» Thank you, Madam Chair. Through the
chair to the uh to the chief. Um

646
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:13,200
just one of my questions is this I know
it's department policy. Is this more

647
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:17,440
than a policy as far as it being like a
state law that you have to accomp x

648
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:22,160
number of officers have to accompany an
injured person or is it department

649
00:58:19,359 --> 00:58:27,280
policy through the chair council? It is
only one officer but one has to

650
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:34,079
transport him up there and then that
officer returns as the other officer had

651
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:39,520
has uh arrived. So now they do two to
four hour increments. So you know going

652
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:45,040
out at roll call that you've have the
12:00 shift. So you leave your route to

653
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:50,400
meet the other officer and relieve them
and that officer leaves and goes back on

654
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:53,760
their if there's only one guy. So, in
addition to the time it takes to

655
00:58:52,079 --> 00:58:59,119
transport to the hospital through the
chair, it's also the lost ability to

656
00:58:56,319 --> 00:59:01,680
police by
uh driving back and forth to relieve

657
00:59:01,119 --> 00:59:05,839
each other
>> through the chair. That's correct.

658
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:10,319
» I tell you what, my concern is I'm also
I'm actually hesitant to even say it out

659
00:59:08,079 --> 00:59:14,160
loud, but I'm sure I'm not saying
anything that people haven't thought of.

660
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:19,440
If there was ever, god forbid, concerted
effort by any

661
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:23,440
group of bad people um to do harm in
Worcester, it seems to me they could

662
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:28,400
stage very easily a number of people
being injured and really deplete a

663
00:59:25,839 --> 00:59:34,079
particular shift and then go on and do
something they they intended to do. So I

664
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:37,520
mean it's it's a deep concern of mine um
as it is all of ours. So through the

665
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:41,760
chair to the chief what we've talked
about this before would increasing the

666
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:45,440
number of police officers which for a
variety of reasons in addition to this

667
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:50,400
reason I believe we need to get to that
500 level I know a lot of my colleagues

668
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:55,359
do as well would that help
>> through the chair of council I've always

669
00:59:52,319 --> 01:00:00,400
been an advocate for double cars because
if you have a double car

670
00:59:57,359 --> 01:00:04,079
» at least bringing the officer up there
dropping them off and that car can then

671
01:00:02,799 --> 01:00:06,079
go back into service
>> right

672
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:12,480
» so at least you would still have one
route officer on the route. Right now,

673
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:16,960
it's very rare that we have double cars.
And the other part of that is if you go

674
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:19,119
to an alarm call, you need two cars.
>> If you go to a domestic, you need two

675
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:23,839
cars.
>> So, you have cars coming from and as far

676
01:00:21,599 --> 01:00:26,559
as a noise ordinance, whoever has that
in their trunk may not be the guy.

677
01:00:26,079 --> 01:00:29,200
» Right.
>> So, it's

678
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:33,280
» that's why I suggested that.
>> So, so increased number of the officers

679
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:37,040
would be a help.
>> Yes.

680
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:40,079
for a lot of reasons including this one.
>> All right. Thank you.

681
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:46,640
» So through the chair, how do we how do
we make this

682
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:50,000
» change? Because not only is it an issue
with officers, but now you have a route

683
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:52,400
that's vacant,
>> right?

684
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:58,400
» Other officers are coming from other
parts of the city to cover that route,

685
01:00:55,040 --> 01:01:04,880
which also is leaving that area
unprepared. Um, so it's a it's quite an

686
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:09,599
issue in my opinion as I see it sitting
here tonight and I don't I agree with

687
01:01:07,599 --> 01:01:16,079
the double officers in the car because
at least it gives you that flexibility

688
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:21,359
um what would need to take place to make
that happen in the short term anyways

689
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:26,720
through chair council not only is it
more effective it's safer

690
01:01:23,839 --> 01:01:32,240
and addition to that what I would do was
if I had the personnel I would make the

691
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:36,720
route smaller. That way you have less
jurisdiction to cover and you put more

692
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:43,359
people out so that when there are people
leaving, they can more easily

693
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:51,359
cover that smaller jurisdiction or
route. So we have 20 right now. Make it

694
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:55,760
30. And it should be done by a study of
where the most calls are coming from.

695
01:01:53,520 --> 01:02:02,640
Right now it's 20 roots. It's been that
way probably for 50 years. We need to

696
01:01:59,359 --> 01:02:07,839
come together and maximize
the technology we have that can tell us

697
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:12,720
when and where the calls are coming and
then you deploy your troops according to

698
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:16,720
that
>> but you need the personnel to do it

699
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:20,480
» right
>> that's um

700
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:23,599
» to the chair I would I would ask for a
chairman's order on that to ask the

701
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:26,160
manager and the chief to come forward
with something

702
01:02:24,799 --> 01:02:30,799
» y
>> um at least so we can get an idea what

703
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:34,960
it would look like, what it would cost,
at least start it in some manner.

704
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:40,079
Doesn't have to be full-blown, but at
least I agree. Follow the data,

705
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:47,280
» right?
>> Um, so we'll do a chairman's order for

706
01:02:42,319 --> 01:02:51,359
report uh on that and um
>> y

707
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:55,200
to interrupt your train of thought, but
um the one question I forgot to ask in

708
01:02:53,680 --> 01:03:00,960
addition to increasing the number of
police officers

709
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:07,040
would have going back to some sort of
precinct police stations

710
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:11,839
help um if we had enough personnel as
far as minimizing the trips to the

711
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:15,680
hospital and so on and so forth um
because that's system that used to be in

712
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:19,839
place and I know a lot of people in a
lot of neighborhoods

713
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:24,000
love to see police officers walking down
their neighbor I mean you know this

714
01:03:21,599 --> 01:03:28,799
notion that only certain neighborhoods
get walking beats and others Well, there

715
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:31,520
may be some truth to it, but it has to
do with personnel. I think every

716
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:34,000
neighborhood should have in every
district.

717
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:38,240
» I we've talked about I brought that up
before have precincts and

718
01:03:36,079 --> 01:03:43,680
» right through through chair to council.
I wrote that plan and within it was that

719
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:48,400
we were going to have to maximize the
number of officers to make that work.

720
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:53,119
» The the key to that is to have the same
officers in the same area every single

721
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:56,480
day. That way you have that community
engagement. If you don't have enough

722
01:03:55,359 --> 01:04:01,520
cops, then you're going to keep
switching them to different precincts.

723
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:03,359
And that's why that was not a viable
alternative.

724
01:04:02,079 --> 01:04:07,599
» Can I just add a comment? No more
questions. All this goes back to me. You

725
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:12,559
know, we we just finished a budget,
billion dollar budget. I think going

726
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:20,000
back into the next budget cycle. Um
there has to be a cohesive unified um

727
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:24,319
message to the city manager that it's
time to start. I know it's challenge

728
01:04:22,079 --> 01:04:28,799
challenge to keep what we got, but we
have to start figuring out how do we get

729
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:33,039
to that 500 number because we can't just
keep treading water and just trying to

730
01:04:31,119 --> 01:04:36,400
equal what we've got when we have
college kids here that make our

731
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:39,599
population larger. We've got a
population that grows more than any

732
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:44,960
other city historically in the last
decade. Um, and proportionally, we've

733
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:49,680
talked about this on the council floor.
Worcester has less police officers per

734
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:53,200
as a percentage of population than every
other major city in New England,

735
01:04:51,119 --> 01:04:56,720
Providence, Springfield, so on and so
forth. So, I mean, those of us that

736
01:04:55,359 --> 01:05:00,480
believe that that's part of the
solution, I think there's a good number

737
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:04,079
of us have to make sure that next year's
budget includes a game plan. It's not

738
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:07,680
going to happen in a year, but it's
going to start happening.

739
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:10,960
» I would agree if if I could just add to
that. So,

740
01:05:09,119 --> 01:05:15,359
» we have been fortunate that we get a
class every year.

741
01:05:12,559 --> 01:05:20,880
The issue is sustaining
those that are going to be leaving. Like

742
01:05:17,119 --> 01:05:23,520
my class, the class before me
30, we all have 32 years,

743
01:05:23,119 --> 01:05:28,720
» right?
>> Why do you stay longer when you're

744
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:32,720
working for 20 cents on the dollar?
That's the question,

745
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:36,319
» right? With everything going on, that's
you're in reality, that's what you're

746
01:05:34,799 --> 01:05:41,680
being paid because you're already at
80%. So people leave, they go to other

747
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:49,280
agencies or they leave and get other
jobs. Um, so now like today we're

748
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:54,640
probably down 70 75 cops. So you you
it's very difficult to sustain that. I

749
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:59,839
advocated and I've said it before for
two classes a year to try to get that

750
01:05:57,359 --> 01:06:03,839
number up.
That's something that I think we

751
01:06:01,039 --> 01:06:09,839
absolutely should be asking
in the form of a chairman's lawyer that

752
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:14,559
the U manager um
put on an extra class.

753
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:19,039
» Would you also consider on that order
>> to include looking at what other

754
01:06:16,799 --> 01:06:24,799
municipalities might be doing to
incentivize officers from from retiring?

755
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:29,280
» I think we have an order. I think I did
put an order in on that.

756
01:06:26,319 --> 01:06:33,119
» Maybe remind certain people that we need
that answer.

757
01:06:29,839 --> 01:06:34,640
» Yeah. AJ, did you hear that?
>> Madam Chair, I'm sorry. Could you repeat

758
01:06:34,319 --> 01:06:39,839
that?
>> Sure. I I I think I I had filed an order

759
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:44,960
requesting what other uh cities and
towns are doing to incentivize um

760
01:06:42,319 --> 01:06:50,880
recruit recruiting and transfers of
police officers. Um but if we haven't,

761
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:52,799
then I'd like to do that as a chairman's
order.

762
01:06:51,359 --> 01:06:57,359
» And otherwise, perhaps we could just get
an update on where that's at either way.

763
01:06:54,880 --> 01:07:03,280
So yeah, we can put that in. No problem.
All right, that's good. Um, and then um

764
01:07:00,799 --> 01:07:10,079
we're talking about uh coming up with a
a plan uh including budget and etc. um

765
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:16,000
for increasing um the numbers. Um
>> but if I may, Madam Chair, even if we

766
01:07:11,839 --> 01:07:20,559
had 10 more, right, and say if we're
able to work our system the way we're

767
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:26,240
working it, we had 10 more that we could
double up 10 units or five units, five

768
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:34,079
roots
where the data brings us I think would

769
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:39,760
be a vast improvement on a short term
that I feel we might be able to tackle

770
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:42,319
in a a year's time. Um
>> I'm looking at the numbers and I'm not

771
01:07:41,359 --> 01:07:46,079
so sure.
>> No, I just I we got to start somewhere,

772
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:49,920
you know, and I agree with Council
Bergman. I think we do need to increase

773
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:54,240
our compliment. We're a growing we're a
growing city and

774
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:57,359
» this is taking men and women off the
street

775
01:07:55,359 --> 01:08:02,400
» where we want them sticking them in a
hospital as a guard where their talents

776
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:05,039
can be used elsewhere.
>> Oh, absolutely. I think we've all said

777
01:08:04,079 --> 01:08:07,440
that on the floor.
>> Yeah.

778
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:11,039
» Numerous times. And I think it's just a
it's not something that's happening just

779
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:16,880
in Wester. Other police departments are
experiencing it. Um and uh I think it's

780
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:22,799
been it's been very difficult. But what
bothers me is yes, we're currently down

781
01:08:18,719 --> 01:08:29,040
75, but we're talking potential of how
many people are in those two classes.

782
01:08:26,799 --> 01:08:34,880
» The number left
maybe 60, 70.

783
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:39,279
» So that's potentially could be 110, 115.
>> Yeah. No, I'm with you.

784
01:08:36,159 --> 01:08:45,600
» So it's I I think I got up on this floor
and said that this was a massive crisis

785
01:08:41,199 --> 01:08:50,239
here. So um you know I think it's we
need to do something and I I think uh

786
01:08:47,759 --> 01:08:55,839
whether
whether it's is there any way that they

787
01:08:53,759 --> 01:09:02,080
they have to be they have to be they
couldn't be uh a retiree or something

788
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:05,199
like that. It has to be a full
>> through the chair of council. you know,

789
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:09,759
because
>> if you have to arrest someone, I mean,

790
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:10,799
» people show up, try to freeze. I mean,
it's

791
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:14,000
» Yeah, I get you.
>> There's a lot to it.

792
01:09:11,839 --> 01:09:17,199
» No, I just I was just trying to think
outside the box.

793
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:21,679
» If I Is there a way to through the chair
to work cohesively with other

794
01:09:18,799 --> 01:09:26,319
departments who may be also, you know,
whether it's the sheriff's, other towns.

795
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:30,799
» I think it's a custody issue
>> through the chair of the council. That's

796
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:32,400
correct. It's once they're in our
custody,

797
01:09:31,759 --> 01:09:34,880
» we own them.
>> We own them. Anything that happens to

798
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:38,239
them, it's on us.
>> Okay.

799
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:44,560
» Yeah. So, all right. So, we'll we'll
look for uh for report and potential uh

800
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:48,560
solutions to this. Uh Chief, thank you
very much. I appreciate all the hard

801
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:56,719
work you guys are doing.
>> Uh and I was remiss um No, go ahead. Uh

802
01:09:52,319 --> 01:10:02,800
I was remiss and I had a a resident who
wanted to comment on the uh noise

803
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:08,719
ordinance. So, please come forward.
Hi, my name is Bruce Hoffner.

804
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:17,040
Um, I deal with some property on Lincoln
Street and Wayside Road. Um, I like all

805
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:23,840
the ideas, uh, Mr. Ricono had and, uh,
obviously, uh, Council Bergman had some

806
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:28,320
good ideas. Um, I I'd like to throw out
a couple of things.

807
01:10:26,159 --> 01:10:35,120
First of all, being lied straight to our
face. Five years we've been lied to. So,

808
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:40,159
with that said,
let's make it painful

809
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:46,800
for them to keep lying.
I'm talking about $5,000 fine.

810
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:52,880
All right? Maybe the second time, maybe
the first, third, I don't know, but make

811
01:10:50,480 --> 01:10:58,640
it incremental
because this has gone on too long. I had

812
01:10:55,440 --> 01:11:03,360
a dog die because of the thumping.
He just kept barking all night long. It

813
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:06,800
was my guard dog.
He thought someone was banging on the

814
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:15,679
doors
and I know it was because of that. I

815
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:20,080
know that. So if it's incremental
when they feel the pain,

816
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:22,960
it's going to be something for them to
think about.

817
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:28,159
» Well, I think that's I Mr. Hoffner, I do
believe that we we said that that we do

818
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:32,560
need to increase the fines and and I
understand the incremental. That's what

819
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:35,760
I think uh the commissioner was talking
about as well.

820
01:11:33,679 --> 01:11:38,080
» But I'm talking about pain
>> 5,000.

821
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:42,880
» Yeah.
>> You wake up when it gets to 5,000.

822
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:47,199
» Yeah. Well, I I we also asked for what
the legal limits are for increasing the

823
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:52,239
fine. So, we'll wait and find out about
that and we'll have that brought forward

824
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:57,360
to council and have it come back to the
>> the other thing is is another person's

825
01:11:54,480 --> 01:12:00,719
been online waiting to speak.
>> Okay. Uh, and there's one I was not

826
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:03,360
being aware of that.
>> There's one other thing that I just want

827
01:12:02,239 --> 01:12:08,880
to bring up.
>> So, everybody on Pasadena Parkway

828
01:12:06,480 --> 01:12:14,000
surrounding that church has moved out
except for one person.

829
01:12:11,679 --> 01:12:19,600
Everybody. They've all moved out.
They've sold their houses.

830
01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:24,239
One of them, one woman had cancer. They
didn't care about that. Another person

831
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:29,360
had a nervous breakdown. He actually
started threatening people with guns. We

832
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:32,239
don't want to get to that point again.
>> So, we do not

833
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:36,159
» I you know I didn't sleep this weekend
because of this. Okay. Usually I go up

834
01:12:34,480 --> 01:12:42,159
to New Hampshire,
>> but I work this weekend. It was the end

835
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:46,880
of the month. Usually in September
things get very busy for the inspection

836
01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:51,840
business. I open at 7 in the morning,
close at 9:00.

837
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:55,679
» So, I'm way overt tired and I'm really
aggravated.

838
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:59,679
But thank you. Uh, I wish you could
address Joe Kasher online.

839
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:02,640
» Yep. I wasn't aware that there was
someone online. Sorry.

840
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:05,520
» Thank you,
>> Madam Chair. We would use this

841
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:09,920
opportunity to remind folks if they do
want to speak to please use the raise

842
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:13,760
hand function. And again, the raise hand
function is the bottom center of your

843
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:17,600
screen or you dial star 9 to raise your
hand. And madam chair, we have one

844
01:13:15,440 --> 01:13:24,159
person raising their hand. uh the person
I can identify as Phillip. Just your

845
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:28,800
full city full name city or town of
address and the item that you're

846
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:30,719
speaking on. Thank you.
>> Hi, can you hear me?

847
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:34,320
» Yes.
>> Yes.

848
01:13:31,679 --> 01:13:40,640
» My name is Joseph
Carsha, my family property about St.

849
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:45,840
Jonavar Church. And um I'm a little bit
confused. Um, it sounds to me after

850
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:52,320
listening and waiting to speak for over
an hour, um, there there's a process in

851
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:58,960
place for the license commission to
receive an application and a butters to

852
01:13:54,719 --> 01:14:05,679
be invited to a hearing. There's been
um, dozens of um, events at this church.

853
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:11,679
Uh, and not all of them have resulted in
complaints, but I have never once

854
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:17,520
received a invitation to a hearing for
licenses. Um, fact is I I most recently

855
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:22,320
got invited to one because one of the
inspectional services employees happened

856
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:29,120
to see one of the emails cuz I started
having to email half the city uh to get

857
01:14:25,199 --> 01:14:33,679
any sort of response from the city. Now,
um

858
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:38,560
I've spoken and had interactions to many
police officers and emergency

859
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:43,120
communications department uh employees
and they

860
01:14:41,440 --> 01:14:47,280
none of them understand the noise
ordinance. They don't understand the

861
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:51,760
peritting process. Um they make up lies
about there being permits and then there

862
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:58,480
are none when I seek public records for
them. They don't know how to assess

863
01:14:54,880 --> 01:15:04,000
complaints um or document violations.
That's the issue. Um

864
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:08,880
really hoping people get trained uh and
given decimal meters. I'm a little bit

865
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:13,920
confused how
unlicensed entertainment can take place

866
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:18,080
for, you know, years and years and
years. They're not they're just begging

867
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:22,400
for forgiveness instead of going through
the process of asking for permission. I

868
01:15:20,719 --> 01:15:28,000
feel like that should be grounds to just
shut it down at this point. Why are you

869
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:33,040
continuing to be played?
And just for the record, I have

870
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:38,000
absolutely no issue with events
happening there. Uh people worship,

871
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:44,560
worshiping, celebrating, uh gathering,
assembling. Um I think it's healthy for

872
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:50,400
uh people to be spiritual. It's look, I
live hundreds of feet away from this

873
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:57,280
property and can hear it in my house and
I have a legal um right to peaceful

874
01:15:54,400 --> 01:16:04,080
enjoyment of my property. This there's
no question that they are breaking the

875
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:09,840
language in the noise ordinance. Um, I
have uh body cam footage of officers

876
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:14,719
agreeing like, "Yeah, we're hundreds of
feet away from this building with the

877
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:19,280
doors closed and we can hear it and we
would be pissed too if we were trying to

878
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:24,400
go to sleep."
>> Um, so this is just Come on. I mean,

879
01:16:22,239 --> 01:16:29,920
really. So, the Yeah,
>> they go down, they uh take occupancy um

880
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:34,239
certificates away and then they give it
back when they go down to the office and

881
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:39,679
beg for them. That's ridiculous. And so,
of course, it's going to happen again.

882
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:44,960
Um, was this past Saturday? Was did they
go through the licing licensing process

883
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:50,000
for that? No, I doubt they did. Um, come
on. This is just ridiculous at this

884
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:55,280
point. And just so everyone knows, I
went down into that church, met with the

885
01:16:52,560 --> 01:17:01,120
priest, brought my own personal DJ
equipment, and showed them what like an

886
01:16:57,440 --> 01:17:05,280
appropriate sound system would um be
like. and they wouldn't even bother um

887
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:10,719
the neighborhood if they use that. They
don't listen. They want to bring in huge

888
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:16,159
powerful subbase. They want to bring in
hundreds and hundreds of people and

889
01:17:12,239 --> 01:17:20,640
blast the music. That's the problem. And
you know, I think it's we're all in

890
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:23,840
agreement. There's no it's just
unmanageable. Like it's the wrong person

891
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:27,360
running things,
>> right? I agree. I agree with you. And

892
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:32,560
that's why we're we're moving forward
with all of this. Certainly.

893
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:36,239
How about this? You've been very patient
because, you know, we've talked about

894
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:42,640
this for several years, too.
>> So, I do think that the commissioner I

895
01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:47,840
do think that the commissioner uh has um
you know, the right uh tactic to move

896
01:17:45,679 --> 01:17:52,800
forward. Uh we asked some good
questions. We're waiting for reports and

897
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:58,239
uh so I think that uh let's let's get
that uh information and we can talk

898
01:17:54,640 --> 01:18:03,360
about this uh at the next u hearing.
>> Yeah. I I mean, in my opinion, it should

899
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:07,679
be the next time it happens. Okay? And
you don't need decibel meters to drive

900
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:15,199
up Wayside Road hundreds of feet away
and use your own two ears and hear it

901
01:18:10,719 --> 01:18:19,520
plainly audible as um defined in the
noise uh ordinance. I mean, I could

902
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:22,400
literally sing the baselines to you.
That's how many times I've heard them.

903
01:18:21,199 --> 01:18:27,440
» I'm sure.
>> Yeah. So, I mean, maybe take away the

904
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:29,280
occupancy uh certificate the next time
this happens.

905
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:33,360
» That's
>> and I, you know, I appreciate all of you

906
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:38,800
for giving me the opportunity and
listening and I especially appreciate uh

907
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:43,679
councelor econom for bringing this
forward. Um, so thank you.

908
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:46,960
» Thank you very much. Thank you. All
right. So, uh,

909
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:51,679
» may I speak
>> on these two items, sir?

910
01:18:49,199 --> 01:18:57,199
» I'm sorry. on on either the noise
ordinance or

911
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:59,840
or the um
on the

912
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:04,080
» speak on public safety business.
>> Uh it's not on the agenda. It it's if

913
01:19:02,480 --> 01:19:09,679
it's not either of those two things,
it's not on the agenda, sir.

914
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:12,960
» Well, then I'll speak on the noise.
>> It has to be completely regarding that

915
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:18,159
particular ordinance.
>> I will speak on the noise ordinance.

916
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:22,080
May I speak?
>> Yes, sir. your name in city.

917
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:29,679
» I'm Gordon Davis.
I lived in this city almost 60 years.

918
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:36,239
And the north and when we have a
demonstration, the police would come and

919
01:19:32,719 --> 01:19:42,400
say, "Our loud speaker, our bullhorn,
this is first amendment rights is too

920
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:47,760
loud." And I tell him, well, how do you
know that? And then he says, "Then the

921
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:52,640
police would say this is several
demonstrations.

922
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:58,560
Well, you s turn it off for a real
rescue."

923
01:19:54,560 --> 01:20:06,400
So I'm saying that was racist. I'm also
saying that what's happening with the

924
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:12,000
CNA report is also racist in that the
police chief has said CNA reporting

925
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:19,840
anything about it. I'm sorry. and that
this committee which is supposed to keep

926
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:21,520
people safe out of water is is harming
us.

927
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:28,640
» Sir,
>> what? No, you will listen to me.

928
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:37,000
This is a public safety committee.
The people in Wester are being harmed

929
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:37,000
and you're not taking it up.

930
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:55,840
talk about it later.
>> You heard me. You know, and that's that

931
01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:59,760
» the uh that's the end of this uh
subcommittee and I want to thank

932
01:20:57,679 --> 01:21:03,600
everybody for attending.
>> Madam Chair, what did you do with item 4

933
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:08,800
A? Would you like to file that?
>> Yes, please. Okay. Thank you.

934
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:08,800
» Thank you. Motion to adjurnn.