[0:05] To the flag of the United States of
[0:07] America and to the republic for which it
[0:10] stands, one nation under God,
[0:13] indivisible, with liberty and justice
[0:16] for all.
[0:19] » All right,
[0:23] let's see. We start off u everyone have
[0:25] a chance to look at the February minutes
[0:28] corrections additions off
[0:40] » I
[0:42] so
[0:48] item A we're going to hear from Robert
[0:52] is that correct
[0:53] Yes.
[1:06] » Um, this is this is a a pretty simple
[1:09] text amendment to adjust the existing uh
[1:12] chapter 92.12 or 91.12 to establish a
[1:16] one-year pilot program for dogs on the
[1:18] beach. Uh the amend the amendment keeps
[1:20] the seasonal restriction structure, but
[1:22] it adds a limited uh morning window to
[1:26] uh the dates for leash dogs um in the
[1:31] mornings. Um so the current the current
[1:33] ordinance um prohibits the dogs on
[1:35] public beaches from April 1st through
[1:38] September 30th and allows for leash uh
[1:42] dogs from October 1 through March 31st.
[1:45] Um, I prepared this um, revision with
[1:48] the notes that came um, these were just
[1:51] notes that came out of the meeting. As
[1:54] far as I can tell, there was the
[1:57] committee meeting where the park rangers
[1:58] involved, members of the public, they spoke about what they wanted to
[2:03] change and uh, essentially received a
[2:06] bullet pointed memo uh, and uh, with
[2:10] some proposed changes to essentially add
[2:12] this pilot program. uh with us um with
[2:16] what I'm guessing is the support of uh
[2:18] the park ranger um because he was
[2:21] involved in those meetings. I'm sure
[2:22] some people from the planning board was
[2:24] on this committee as well. Um thank you.
[2:27] >> Yeah. And you so you were there. You
[2:30] could probably speak to it better than I
[2:31] can. Um so basically this revises the
[2:34] season restriction dates from April 2nd
[2:36] to September 29th and allows dogs on the
[2:39] public beach between 6:00 a.m. and 9:00
[2:41] a.m. during that period. Um, it revises
[2:45] the leashed uh dog season to September
[2:47] 29th to April 20 I mean to April 2nd
[2:51] which is just a one day change. I'm not
[2:53] really sure why that was changed.
[2:59] » That's what I got from the notes. So
[3:01] that's what I in your strike through
[3:03] underline. Um, so it does establish a
[3:06] yearround uh uh let's see, establishes
[3:09] yearround dog free beach areas from
[3:11] beach access 42, which I believe is just
[3:14] north of Shell Island and beach access
[3:17] 2. Um, which
[3:21] I'm I was thinking about this today. Um
[3:24] the justification for that is at beach
[3:27] access one you have the bird sanctuary
[3:29] which is all the south end and then
[3:31] beyond 42 what? North
[3:36] the north. So one is at the north end.
[3:38] Oh so I got it backwards. So 42 um
[3:42] basically it precludes anything in the
[3:44] bird sanctuary which is on the south end
[3:47] and anything north of Shell Island but
[3:49] then you get into the channel and
[3:50] whatnot over there. Um,
[3:54] so
[3:58] » Right. Exactly. Um, so it adds a civil
[4:01] penalty uh $500 per uh violation up from
[4:05] the existing $250
[4:08] um and adopts uh division BCH H&I as a
[4:12] temporary pilot program. Those are just
[4:15] the the amendments. So, what I added
[4:17] here
[4:19] in your packet is the notes uh for the
[4:24] dogs and the beach January 20th, 2026
[4:27] um which outlines the ordinance changes,
[4:30] the communication efforts, uh the
[4:32] amenity improvements and volunteer
[4:34] support and and challenges etc.
[4:38] So what I included was the original
[4:41] ordinance as written directly out of our
[4:43] book uh adopted 2012
[4:48] and the last amendment was actually 2019
[4:52] because that's when we readopted uh the
[4:55] wings. Uh I added the strike through
[4:57] underline so you can see what has
[4:59] actually changed. That's on page 11 of
[5:01] your packet. Um,
[5:06] it's not a lot, but it does add some
[5:08] provisions for a little bit more freedom
[5:11] of warnings.
[5:14] >> Just keep going. The number is kind of
[5:15] strange.
[5:19] » Okay.
[5:21] >> Yeah. Looks like your age you would have
[5:25] been from 10 to 12 to 13-
[5:28] >> for 11D. Has anybody ever had a snake?
[5:32] Yes.
[5:33] >> I don't know.
[5:34] >> Yes, I've seen it.
[5:37] >> Wrapped all around.
[5:39] >> 11de
[5:41] snake.
[5:42] >> Oh no.
[5:43] >> Many years ago chickens in here.
[5:47] >> I don't remember the snake.
[5:48] >> Um so H, I and J are new sections
[5:53] completely. And then there are some
[5:57] pretty simple amendments to B and C.
[6:01] um in your strike through underline
[6:03] version and then I always include the
[6:05] new version of just what it looks like
[6:07] once it's finished. Um so if there's any
[6:09] mistakes in there, we can adjust it
[6:12] before it gets to the board of aldermen.
[6:14] Um that's all I have. So this is uh your
[6:18] discussion. Um
[6:20] so I think what we can do is I know Doug
[6:22] Wilson's here. So let him talk for
[6:26] you want to say something for a minute.
[6:28] >> Yes. Appreciate And then we'll then
[6:30] we'll have a good discussion.
[6:31] >> Sure.
[6:33] Sounds good.
[6:34] >> I'm trying to limit it. I
[6:37] There was a famous old judge in western
[6:39] North Carolina
[6:41] who is known for repeating at the
[6:42] beginning of every court calendar.
[6:45] Revity is prized above all else.
[6:49] >> Give us the cliffs version.
[6:50] >> Okay. Uh appreciate it. generally uh
[6:55] background I started this petition drive
[6:59] almost three years ago so the signs
[7:01] you've seen petitions etc uh with
[7:04] talking with other folks because a lot
[7:07] of people expressed interest in in
[7:08] opening this up we found out every other
[7:11] beach town in North Carolina South
[7:12] Carolina had some provision in fact
[7:16] pretty much up and down the whole east
[7:17] coast so we started this last December
[7:21] and I'm going to submit I'm Sorry, I
[7:24] actually had no notice that this period
[7:26] is going to take place tonight uh with uh this agenda. Um
[7:33] I submitted to the um
[7:37] board and I'm going to put this in your
[7:39] record because I referred to it a little
[7:41] bit. This has all the beach town rules
[7:44] for North and South Carolina. Has
[7:46] interviews with uh town managers with
[7:48] Sullivan Island, etc. also has names and
[7:52] addresses of 166 registered citizens who
[7:55] signed the petition.
[7:57] Want to mention two things. One, Robert,
[7:59] on the uh amend amendment itself, I
[8:04] think you also need to amend um
[8:11] 91.02.
[8:14] Uh that's the uh definitions and that
[8:16] includes a nuisance and includes
[8:18] reference to dogs over the summer. I
[8:21] think that needs to be
[8:24] modified as well so it's in accordance
[8:26] with the text of
[8:31] um
[8:33] and uh secondly
[8:36] and I may have been confused. I would
[8:40] suggest I didn't understand that the
[8:45] putting off the north and south ends was
[8:48] year round. I thought it was for the
[8:50] season April one. I may have
[8:52] misunderstood you did, but I suggest at
[8:56] least others I suggest you consider
[8:59] that. Um I mean from say people can't go
[9:03] out in November and December and
[9:06] January.
[9:07] there very few people anyway. But I
[9:10] really think uh I misunderstood that and
[9:13] I suggest uh that you consider changing
[9:16] that. And last thing I want to say is
[9:20] um just express there a lot of public
[9:24] support for this. You understand this.
[9:27] Um I did emphasize the other beach
[9:30] towns. I know Jim and I disagreed a
[9:32] little bit about the importance of those
[9:34] in our committee meetings, but I do know
[9:36] that uh some of the board has mentioned
[9:38] that last year when they started this
[9:40] committee mentioned the importance of
[9:43] other details and what what they were
[9:45] doing with it. With that all
[9:57] » what were you saying about um amending
[10:00] what were you saying the last thing you
[10:01] said about
[10:03] >> what I'm sorry
[10:05] >> the text amendment
[10:07] amends um the numbers amends 91.12
[10:14] dogs on the beach to the what what the
[10:16] text me says mornings uh 6 a.m. to 9:00
[10:20] a.m.
[10:21] >> You want that to be around?
[10:23] >> No, ma'am. That's fine. What I'm saying
[10:26] is there is another provision in the
[10:29] ordinance
[10:30] uh 91.02
[10:33] under definitions. It also includes that
[10:36] prohibition for dogs completely April
[10:40] one. So it's in it's in conflict with
[10:42] the text. Now you're saying you need to
[10:45] make sure that both
[10:48] >> Yeah, it's a different it's a different chapter altogether.
[10:51] What he's saying is there's two separate
[10:52] um there's two separate ordinances that
[10:54] sort of conflict in language with each
[10:56] other. And that's fine. That's that's a
[10:58] relative easy easy change. And I'll just
[11:03] remind you that whenever it comes to two
[11:05] conflicting ordinances, you always go
[11:07] with the most restrictive one. Right.
[11:10] But that's my point. Yeah.
[11:14] >> Okay.
[11:16] I got you.
[11:20] » So, let's have a conversation among the
[11:22] board. We've heard from Mr. Wilson.
[11:24] Obviously, he was
[11:28] no clarification. One of the things I
[11:30] want to say is I'm in Sullivan's Island
[11:33] every week. Every week I'm leaving. I
[11:37] have had it all. There's a huge
[11:39] difference between Sullivan's Island is
[11:42] Palm and Rice Beach. South Carolina
[11:44] beaches are extremely wide. I mean, you
[11:47] can walk whatever even in the summer
[11:49] except when you get right in the middle
[11:51] of Palm down with the villages there. is
[11:54] a little crowded, but
[11:58] there's a ton of beach and so you you
[12:01] can't compare right to the beach that is
[12:03] so crowded that you can't even I don't
[12:06] walk out there right across the street
[12:08] because there's no room on that beach
[12:10] and and and then and I did a ride ride
[12:13] along in side by side not long ago and
[12:15] even at 6:30 at night in the summer that
[12:18] beach is still crowded. Um the questions
[12:21] I I am concerned about is who's going to
[12:23] enforce this is you know our beach is
[12:26] still over how long it is
[12:29] from end to end and I don't know Scott
[12:32] still
[12:34] okay so it's between two men be up and
[12:38] down the beach who and and I and
[12:42] Sullivan's island they are on that beach
[12:44] with their four by 4x4 side by sides
[12:46] water 24/7 up and down I If you even
[12:50] step through that beach, they they dog
[12:54] when it's not allowed. Each beach is
[12:55] different. Palm's dog hours are
[12:58] different from some but you walk the
[13:00] line cross the line right into up from
[13:03] Isa Pal. You don't even know you're in
[13:04] it. So they are they you can see them
[13:07] coming and they're like this up and down
[13:09] and it's a much larger beach. So there's
[13:13] a ton of room for dogs and they don't.
[13:15] So I want to know how is this going to
[13:18] look in the summer noise
[13:21] when people outstay
[13:24] their time
[13:26] is it not how how is that going to look
[13:29] and who's going to police it and who's
[13:32] going to stop the people that dig a hole
[13:35] to cover their waist as opposed to
[13:36] picking it up because I see that happen
[13:40] and I know people that do it. I mean I
[13:42] yell at them all the time. I want to
[13:43] know how to enforce it. Who's going to
[13:46] clean up? People that don't pick up. I'm
[13:49] not. I mean, who's how is this going to
[13:52] look?
[13:54] >> How many citations were there last year?
[13:58] Just you have any idea?
[13:59] >> I have no idea. That's uh that will go
[14:02] through the police department now that
[14:04] uh the park rangers are attached to the
[14:06] police department. And do the park
[14:08] rangers write those or can police write
[14:10] those or can ocean rescue write those?
[14:13] >> Uh the majority is going to be written
[14:15] by Chad and the park rangers. Probably
[14:18] not. Ocean rescue will not.
[14:20] >> What time do the park rangers start each
[14:22] day?
[14:23] >> They have different schedules. They in
[14:25] summer they may start at 6.
[14:27] >> Okay. So there is somebody out
[14:28] >> sometimes they'll stay a little bit
[14:30] later sometimes.
[14:31] >> Okay. And the other thing that that um
[14:34] when I was riding along with one of the
[14:36] police officers not long ago, there was
[14:38] several dogs on the beach that that
[14:40] afternoon. This was in the summer and it
[14:41] was several dogs. I mean, between them
[14:44] her picking me up and us working our way
[14:47] down where there's no beach, the side by
[14:49] side can't even get over to the Mason
[14:51] inlet because there's no beach. You have
[14:53] to go down a thing and and get up up
[14:56] back up to get over. And she stopped
[14:59] probably a half a dozen times that
[15:01] people had dogs on the beach. And that
[15:03] was when it were supposed to
[15:06] happen. And some people had a bracelet
[15:10] on that show that they had to have the
[15:11] service dog earlier. And one little
[15:14] girl, young girl, she goes, "Oh, this is
[15:16] my emotional support dog." Well, then
[15:18] the officer said, "Well, you've got to
[15:20] have service dog. We don't allow
[15:21] emotional support dogs because there's a
[15:23] difference." and she and she made the
[15:27] young girl college age girl. So that so
[15:32] my point about that is you my concern
[15:35] and I know it's already written down
[15:37] when you've given it to take them out
[15:39] and all the years that I've been doing
[15:42] in Solomon's Island I see people pushing
[15:45] you know and are letting the dogs off
[15:47] the leash and I see as many dogs off the
[15:49] leash as I do until they get caught and
[15:51] they get caught they they don't give
[15:54] them a break they So are we going to do
[15:56] that as a as a town is as are we going
[15:59] to enforce it that way because if we
[16:02] don't it's going to be like everything
[16:03] else that doesn't get enforced and
[16:05] there's no because right now with
[16:06] speeding tickets and noise violations if
[16:08] you don't get in the pockets they're
[16:09] going to keep doing it and I just I
[16:12] don't know I just um I want to know how
[16:14] it's going to how it's going to look how
[16:15] it's going to play out and you and you
[16:17] and if you do it for a year then you a
[16:20] year if it doesn't work out then you got
[16:22] to start all over again start you know people not going to know they
[16:26] want to fight at age it's just it's
[16:28] going to be
[16:30] us. I think
[16:32] >> that's just my opinion.
[16:35] >> Can I and maybe it's a question for you,
[16:36] but because you were on the the
[16:38] committee, but what are we trying to
[16:40] solve for? Like is what was the problem
[16:43] with the old ordinance that we're trying
[16:46] to solve for here? Is it is it that
[16:48] there are residents of Rightville Beach
[16:50] that want more access with their dogs or
[16:53] what is the problem?
[16:55] >> Not just residents, it's people on the
[16:56] other side of the bridge as well.
[16:59] Yeah, that's my understanding though is
[17:01] um and I I quite honestly didn't
[17:05] understand. Okay, we've been living with
[17:07] this ordinance for what did you say
[17:09] Robert 2012
[17:11] and then when it was revised in 2019, I
[17:14] don't think the dogs on the beach
[17:16] section was reviewed, it just went
[17:18] through with the whole rescue ordinance.
[17:20] But we've been living with it this long
[17:23] and yes, people who want to walk their
[17:27] dogs down the beach more uh have brought
[17:31] this forth and and so so so your
[17:35] followup question was there any
[17:37] consideration given to like I share some
[17:41] of William's concerns there's other
[17:42] concern you know we don't need anything
[17:44] else marine you know folks just coming
[17:46] just to do that was there any
[17:48] consideration giving to given to some
[17:51] sort of
[17:52] resident pass to what we so it's just
[17:57] you know if we're talking about 166
[17:59] people who live here that really want
[18:00] access for a couple hours in the morning
[18:02] in the summer
[18:04] is it worth opening the can of worms to
[18:06] everyone I'm just throwing something out
[18:08] for the board's consideration I just
[18:10] started thinking if the problem is we
[18:12] want to help these residents get on the
[18:14] beach in the summer then maybe we may
[18:18] >> again you got to have somebody that's
[18:19] monitor
[18:20] Yeah, that's the one of the key things.
[18:22] And I want to practice it because I want
[18:24] to stay on the road. I love dogs
[18:26] probably more than people. I love dogs,
[18:28] but it's not their fault. It's the
[18:31] owner's faults that aren't cleaning up.
[18:32] I mean, I walk out and I see people in
[18:35] front of my house all the time heading
[18:36] out and it was in the summer and you
[18:38] know when there's no dogs on the beach
[18:40] and here they go with their dogs and
[18:41] they got them in their bag, they've
[18:43] hidden them here. I've seen it a million
[18:45] times. And so, it's not the dog's fault.
[18:47] It's the owner's fault. And then I knew
[18:49] that every owner was going to come up
[18:51] there and clean up behind their dog and
[18:54] not let that dog a get loose and you
[18:57] know y'all remember the guy on the loop
[18:59] with the bad dog that was so aggressive
[19:01] and people will complain the dog was
[19:04] dangerous and he didn't do he couldn't
[19:06] hold the dog back. What happens when one
[19:08] of those dogs and ends up on the beach
[19:11] and bites a child or attacks child?
[19:15] Because people got on the beach in the
[19:16] summer when they know parking, they're
[19:18] out on that beach earlier, get to the
[19:20] new parking spot. So it and again, it's
[19:24] not the dog's fault. It's the owner's
[19:27] fault. And I like I said, I think it's
[19:30] we we're opening a big or a big can of
[19:32] worms. I I was going to suggest that one
[19:35] of the things we could have done was add
[19:37] a month instead of it ending dogs ending
[19:40] on the beach October 1st. Why couldn't
[19:43] we push it to November and start it and let it in other words when it ends
[19:50] dogs are not going to have dogs on the
[19:51] beach after April 1. What if we moved it
[19:53] to May 1st before Memorial Day and then
[19:55] gave them an extra month to get in add
[19:58] two months to it and just do it in the
[20:02] crazy busy time of the summer when that
[20:05] beach is slam. You can't even walk
[20:07] there.
[20:08] That would have made more sense to me.
[20:11] what you add to the allowance.
[20:15] >> Not
[20:17] year round,
[20:18] >> but it's it's based on the nesting sea
[20:20] turtles.
[20:21] >> Well, I thought about that because they
[20:23] don't nest.
[20:25] >> Not in in April, but they do.
[20:28] >> It doesn't matter what the sea turtles
[20:30] get.
[20:30] >> Yeah.
[20:31] >> If you open it up year round
[20:35] 9:00 in the morning, 6 until 9 year
[20:38] round. Turtles are messing too.
[20:42] I'm not following that.
[20:44] >> So what what she's saying is she instead
[20:46] of doing a year round approach, put a
[20:48] month on each side. So instead of
[20:50] starting October 1st through sorry,
[20:53] ending October 1st, ending or start dogs on the beach October 1st, end
[20:59] dogs on the beach April 30th.
[21:02] >> Yeah. as just in the mornings.
[21:05] >> No,
[21:06] >> he said he's he said take the current
[21:08] policy and give a month additional for
[21:10] dogs on leash dogs on the beach at any
[21:12] time. Just just pull the pull the
[21:14] >> That doesn't coincide with the nesting.
[21:16] Doesn't matter.
[21:18] That's what they do. They dig up the
[21:20] nest.
[21:20] >> But but listen, but what we're doing
[21:22] right now is we're not even considering
[21:24] sea turtles because you're doing year
[21:26] round dogs on the beach
[21:27] >> on the morning.
[21:28] >> Only in the morning.
[21:29] >> Well, maybe in the morning just as well
[21:31] as you're digging. Yeah.
[21:34] >> Well, that's that's the what we have to
[21:36] send a recommendation to the alderman
[21:38] after listening to Matt, the um
[21:42] gentleman who spoke at planning board.
[21:45] >> I'm inclined to not do these revisions
[21:48] at all.
[21:50] >> I don't think we should do it. Um I've
[21:52] had more calls about this issue. Um, we
[21:56] have the ordinance, original ordinance
[21:59] was written in 2012.
[22:02] So, what
[22:04] >> 14 years ago? How many more people do we
[22:06] have on the beach daily?
[22:07] >> A lot.
[22:08] >> Number one. Of course, there's more a
[22:11] lot more dogs, people. And and our town
[22:14] manager started out the meeting. The
[22:16] very first meeting we had, people's are
[22:19] much less responsible than they were 15,
[22:22] 20 years ago. They they don't care.
[22:24] >> They don't care.
[22:25] >> I've been out on the beach during the
[22:26] daytime. And I've literally seen dogs
[22:29] out there off leashes in the summertime
[22:32] and they walk up and pee on people's
[22:34] coolers.
[22:34] >> Yeah.
[22:35] >> They lick their leg. It's just
[22:37] disgusting.
[22:38] >> And when somebody lets that dog run, if
[22:40] you're sitting on the beach and they
[22:41] come running up your chair and and you
[22:44] know, it's got to be a dog. I love to
[22:48] take my dog out there, but come
[22:50] springtime, I've got to retrain it. it
[22:52] can't go out there anymore and it wants
[22:55] to go out but I'm not going to let it
[22:56] out there but I'm I'm just inclined like
[23:00] I agree with what what you said Leanne
[23:02] is um they're not they're not going to
[23:06] be it's going to be a problem
[23:08] >> it's going to be a big problem but if
[23:10] but I like I said I want to go back and
[23:12] say it one more time just I think it
[23:13] would be
[23:15] a nice tradeoff to add a month that's 60
[23:18] more days that just means that you you
[23:21] know, you couldn't have your your dog on
[23:23] the beach and you probably I would even
[23:26] push it to Memorial Day, not wait
[23:28] Memorial Day, but I wouldn't I'd say
[23:30] beginning of May, but that just means
[23:32] May, June, July, and August. When does
[23:35] >> only four months out of the year, you
[23:36] can't have your dog that
[23:38] >> this coincides with the current
[23:40] ordinance, which is um
[23:42] >> April 1st.
[23:43] >> April 1 is a start date.
[23:45] >> Yeah.
[23:46] >> Okay. and then September 30th. But, uh,
[23:49] also Matt said that the, uh, then the
[23:52] hatchlings take 60 days, so they could
[23:54] be out there, uh, hatching, um, as late
[23:57] as November 15th. Now, I did talk to
[24:00] Nancy Fe about it. Um and she said it's
[24:04] rare that we've had hashlings that late
[24:07] but um
[24:10] you know other than that I I don't have
[24:12] any you know I don't have any factual
[24:14] basis that said we should
[24:17] shorten it. Um the um the other issue
[24:21] that I think Leanne made a very good
[24:23] point of and I made it the committee is
[24:26] we cannot compare our beach to other
[24:28] beaches. We have different topography.
[24:30] We have a startments. Um Shannon and
[24:34] Neil and I rode the beach the other
[24:36] night for light pollution, which is
[24:39] another subject. But um it took us an
[24:42] hour and a half to drive it. So we've
[24:44] got Shannon out there who's going to
[24:47] >> you got to navigate your way around
[24:48] where there's beach and where there's
[24:50] not. That
[24:50] >> true. And um but all that being said, it
[24:54] took us an hour and a half and we we
[24:56] weren't kind of hooking hoofing it. we
[24:58] weren't really taking our time just, you
[25:00] know, uh but um yeah, we can't we're narrow and and we've got the
[25:08] escarments and the escarments do not
[25:10] affect the nesting turtles. They come up
[25:12] anyway and they nest in the escarment so
[25:14] they still come. Um
[25:17] and just another interesting fact, the
[25:19] beach beachour does not seem to affect
[25:23] their habits either. they still come
[25:25] after the beach announcement.
[25:28] But all that being said, I I mean, you
[25:30] know, we we've got to send a
[25:31] recommendation to the board and I guess
[25:33] we all have
[25:34] >> another thing that she said that's true
[25:36] is that people come really early now to
[25:39] get a spot
[25:41] >> and their family even with little
[25:43] children umbrellas and all the works. So
[25:46] they're coming much earlier than they
[25:48] used to. Not only that, people who live
[25:51] already along there go out early with
[25:54] little children because of the sun
[25:55] factor and there's lots of like we
[25:57] studied this 10 years ago or so. We did
[26:00] this same round and it you know it's
[26:03] just so many little people out on the
[26:04] beach early and and you know they do
[26:07] because their children they don't want
[26:08] their children in the heat of the sun
[26:09] and you know they do go out and I watch
[26:11] it because you know the house behind me
[26:12] gets rained and I watch them going out
[26:14] there early. So, you know, and again, I
[26:18] love I'm getting a dog, it's a matter of
[26:20] fact, but I I it's not dog's fault and it's not about the dog. It's about
[26:26] the owners and the disrespect that this
[26:30] beach is we put up with every day.
[26:32] People come across that dog bridge and
[26:34] throw all their morals out when they
[26:36] don't care anything about the residents,
[26:37] don't care anything about the beach. And
[26:39] I just don't I I've seen it so many
[26:42] times on this island 50 years and I've
[26:45] seen it
[26:47] and it's getting worse. It's not getting
[26:49] better. It's getting worse.
[26:51] >> There's no way to police it either.
[26:53] >> That's one thing I was going to ask
[26:54] about Nathan brought up a great point
[26:56] which is David to one. How many I'd love
[26:58] to know how many citations were
[27:00] >> written?
[27:01] >> Um
[27:04] because very few because Shannon can't
[27:06] cover four.
[27:07] That's and that's the realistic thing
[27:09] and you can't
[27:10] >> right and the 166 people that signed the
[27:13] petition how many of them are dog owners
[27:14] how many of them have registered their
[27:16] dogs
[27:17] >> how much is it to register a dog
[27:20] >> on the beach
[27:21] >> $10 or 20 more than 10 right now
[27:25] >> I mean for for something like this just
[27:28] I too taking phone calls and talked with
[27:30] a lot of dog owners I have a dog she
[27:32] doesn't go on the beach cuz she's insane
[27:34] she's a runoff so she doesn't go on the
[27:36] beach Um, but I've talked with folks who
[27:39] have a variety of different dogs who
[27:41] would love to see something like this.
[27:44] They would also be willing to pay their
[27:47] residents and they would be willing to
[27:49] pay up to register their dog as a
[27:52] homeowner on the beach and abide by the
[27:55] rules. But I agree with your point after
[27:57] 9 because once you come to the beach, if
[28:00] you bring your dog,
[28:01] >> you don't want to get
[28:02] >> you're not leaving because you're just
[28:03] going to hide that dog.
[28:04] >> You're going to hide that dog. I've seen them put them in their beach
[28:08] bags
[28:08] >> and I've been on the beach when they see
[28:10] somebody coming and they cut put the dog
[28:12] under a towel or a little blanket over
[28:14] the dog. Same the way people put their
[28:15] beer hide it back down in the in their
[28:18] cooler. And
[28:19] >> so can we how do we police it?
[28:21] >> We can.
[28:22] >> How you know the $500 fine I don't know
[28:25] how many tickets were paid.
[28:26] >> Me too. To Nathan's point, if we're, you
[28:30] know, what's I understand there's a lot
[28:32] of 166 people who want to see this. How
[28:36] many of them own their dogs? How many of
[28:37] them are registered? And then really,
[28:40] what are we trying to address here? I
[28:41] mean, the 6 to9 piece in the morning.
[28:44] >> Um, it took you an hour and a half to
[28:47] get up the beach in the evening,
[28:49] >> I believe.
[28:50] >> I mean,
[28:51] >> this was dark, too. So, we're expecting
[28:53] Shannon to to to do all this new new
[28:56] rules. We're expecting him to look at
[28:58] people smoking, drinking,
[29:02] uh drunk behavior because we do we got a
[29:04] little backup with the police, right?
[29:06] You know, but they're, you know, there
[29:09] are back and forth. Then you got the
[29:10] lifeguards and they're they're doing
[29:12] their job. There's there's no way
[29:14] anybody's going to convince me that
[29:16] Shannon and Scott are going to be able
[29:18] to do this on their own.
[29:19] >> Right. I mean, I would love to know just
[29:21] from would folks be willing to pay
[29:26] a little bit more or a lot more to
[29:28] register their dog to be able to walk it
[29:30] on the beach.
[29:31] >> Yeah, I think having a beach passes is
[29:33] for a residential beach pass. We're
[29:36] really interested and worried about the
[29:39] citizens of Rel Beach the residential
[29:41] beach pass. But then I also think that
[29:43] we have to decide here if we're going to
[29:45] recommend it. There's a zero tolerance
[29:47] policy. So if you don't have that, if
[29:50] you have a dog on the beach, it's not
[29:52] one of those things that that's, you
[29:54] know, you got to take your dog. You have
[29:55] to have zero tolerance. People are going
[29:57] to have to understand that you're going
[29:58] to be fine. Um,
[30:00] >> I don't think that's
[30:02] >> I'm just saying if we end up
[30:04] recommending that
[30:05] >> Well, I like Nathan's idea if we can
[30:08] figure out how to make it happen because
[30:10] that's the issue is the residents who
[30:14] live, you know, who are here all the
[30:16] time pretty much.
[30:17] >> Those are the ones we're supporting.
[30:20] >> That's who we should support. That's my
[30:21] concern. You take the wood off and it's again, it's not I don't have
[30:25] anything just like you don't dislike
[30:26] dogs. I don't have anything against
[30:28] people in town, but we don't need a slew
[30:31] of people riding in at 6:00 a.m. to come
[30:33] walk on the beach and heading out. I
[30:35] mean, if we're trying to solve to get
[30:38] residents accessing the dogs on the
[30:41] beach, you know, let's then let's solve
[30:42] that. Let's not let's not have a
[30:44] solution that
[30:47] I don't care what goes on. You know, the
[30:49] worst argument I think you could ever
[30:51] make is, well, they do it there, so why
[30:53] can't we exactly
[30:55] >> use that? It doesn't make any sense.
[30:57] >> If we're really narrow, if we're really
[31:00] interested in doing this, we have to I
[31:02] just had a few comments. Um um you know,
[31:05] this is the recommendation from the
[31:07] committee here that we were to bring
[31:09] forward. And I'm hearing what you're
[31:11] saying. I mean to me if you open it up
[31:14] to residents only that's like giving
[31:16] free parking to other residents and that
[31:19] wouldn't that wouldn't fly in the media
[31:23] and I don't know if you can do it on the
[31:24] public beach
[31:26] >> this question how do that
[31:28] >> so
[31:30] for me then it would be
[31:32] >> I think it'd be very questionable um
[31:35] >> to do something like that
[31:36] >> I think it'd be hard I think it'd be
[31:38] real hard
[31:39] >> to just do it for the resident Even if
[31:41] they
[31:43] paid
[31:43] >> do I
[31:44] >> even if they paid like 25 bucks or
[31:46] >> I don't know that's a thought but what
[31:47] we could do is
[31:50] >> so far I've heard definitions
[31:51] enforcement cleanup citation and we
[31:54] talked about residential passes and what
[31:57] we can do if you keep discussing it and
[31:58] maybe other things we can we can pass
[32:01] these thoughts to the board of alderman.
[32:03] They they did the board of alderman
[32:05] didn't want this group to hear the dogs
[32:07] on the beach. They definitely wanted you
[32:09] to be a part of it here. But what we can
[32:12] do is uh uh I'm sure you gonna have more
[32:15] comments and more thoughts. So once we
[32:18] take this forward, we can we'll bring it
[32:20] up to the board and see what they say.
[32:24] >> What does any does anybody on as a group
[32:28] um how to say this? How do y'all feel
[32:30] about it like that? How um how do y'all
[32:34] feel about adding a month to each end? I
[32:36] know you're front the turtle nest, but
[32:38] if we if we take out the dogs on the
[32:40] beach from May 1st till November 1st and
[32:46] you're trying the turtle, the way it's
[32:48] written out, they got access to the
[32:50] beach 9 every day for 12 months. They
[32:54] can dig up a nest at 8:00 in the morning
[32:56] or upset turtle nest at 8:00.
[32:58] >> But they can't. That's the whole That's
[32:59] the whole thing that we're we're missing
[33:01] here is the fact that we're worried
[33:03] about a dog going and digging up a
[33:05] turtle. I was just saying the shitty
[33:06] dog,
[33:07] >> but the dog is supposed to be on the
[33:08] leash.
[33:09] >> Exactly.
[33:09] >> So that dog is going to be on the beach
[33:11] regardless.
[33:13] >> I hate to say that, but that dog's going
[33:14] to be on the beach regardless because
[33:16] you're not supposed to be off leash when
[33:18] you're on the beach.
[33:19] >> And so they're not if you're on a leash,
[33:21] they're not running up to the turtle
[33:22] nest that we can see their mark that
[33:24] turtle.
[33:24] >> Like some island will let you bring your
[33:26] dogs year round onto the beach, but it
[33:28] has to be leash up till 9:00 in the
[33:31] morning. Then again again it's a very
[33:33] opposite on the other side. I can't
[33:35] remember the timing but they don't have
[33:37] the same rules. Some of them does not
[33:39] have the same rules as
[33:42] it's different. is you know and you can
[33:45] have them off at least for like an hour.
[33:46] I think it's on SA I can't they're both
[33:48] very confus
[33:51] you can have them I think it's 6 a.m.
[33:53] You have an hour and you have a window
[33:55] and it needs to be they're they're very
[33:57] confused and I can't I always have to
[33:59] get on the website and look to see back
[34:01] when I had it all.
[34:03] >> Yeah, David's right. We never allow
[34:08] » I'm talking about
[34:10] >> I don't think we're considering all
[34:11] dogs, right?
[34:12] >> No, my point is I've seen people when
[34:15] you're supposed to have them on a leash
[34:17] not have a leash. they pushing it over
[34:19] and that's when they get a ticket
[34:21] because they do some
[34:24] they they run a tight ship.
[34:26] >> So to Tony's point the things we want to
[34:28] capture for the alderman or enforcement.
[34:31] I'm hearing that.
[34:32] >> I think
[34:34] >> and I understand the residential path
[34:36] doesn't work, but I think at the crux of
[34:38] that is that this solution might it's
[34:40] opening it's solving way more than the
[34:43] problem. Like what we're trying to do
[34:45] opens up way more access than we're
[34:47] hoping. What what are the other I mean I
[34:51] think enforcement is the biggest one.
[34:53] >> The biggest one.
[34:54] >> Second of all, exactly what you say.
[34:56] We're not
[34:58] as we're addressing 127 or whatever 100
[35:01] people signed that petition or whatever
[35:03] it was. Um we're we're not catering to
[35:06] those 166. What we're now doing is
[35:08] allowing every person that comes over
[35:10] that bridge or lives on the beach to
[35:11] have their dogs on the beach, right? So
[35:14] it's a lot more than 166, I think. So,
[35:16] is there a way we can suggest, like I
[35:18] said, a h happy medium where we can
[35:21] increase 30 days on either end and
[35:23] you're only asking people to take four
[35:25] months out of here, but it's so hot down
[35:27] here and it's so crowded.
[35:30] Keep it on.
[35:32] No, I'm not in favor of that. I think
[35:34] it's a reasonable compromise for 6 to9.
[35:36] I think it's very reasonable. And the
[35:38] thing about enforcement, I mean, you
[35:41] could run down the whole list. Lights on
[35:43] the sidewalk, alcohol on the beach,
[35:45] speed, loud cars.
[35:48] Add it to the list.
[35:49] >> I mean, so you're in favor of I know I I
[35:52] like the ordinance the way it's written.
[35:54] The new the new one. I think the
[35:57] >> dog poops different from
[35:59] >> loud noises. I do.
[36:01] >> I do. I do. I think every concern we
[36:03] have down at the beach is is important.
[36:06] This is the bikes, the loud cars, the
[36:08] speeding. I think it's all important.
[36:10] and you're going to have that no matter
[36:12] what. Um, unless we're going to have a
[36:15] lot more police officers and ride a lot
[36:17] more, we're going to have it. The idea
[36:19] of discriminating and we're saying,
[36:20] "Okay, we're going to be elect." I mean,
[36:23] >> well, I have a thought on that until I
[36:25] interrupt you one second, is because
[36:26] towns would get a permit, let those who
[36:29] want to walk their dogs 695 permit,
[36:32] >> the res or or
[36:34] >> Yeah. And maybe on that, but the idea of
[36:36] just a residence going, that's a public
[36:38] beach down there. Yes. Every so often
[36:42] >> and then every so often we say, "Hey,
[36:44] state of North Carolina make county,
[36:45] give us $30 million, $40 million, $50
[36:48] million."
[36:50] I understand that shouldn't be in our
[36:52] conversation whatsoever. I understand
[36:54] that, but I I guess I'm just responding
[36:56] to the problem. Like we're not getting
[36:58] the request from everyone else and and
[37:01] the solution creates another problem.
[37:04] That's the only thing I would say.
[37:05] >> Anything that's preferential. I
[37:06] understand. I understand. I mean, I was
[37:09] just talking to Tony. This piece of land
[37:10] we're sitting on was given to us by the
[37:12] federal government. Piece of land, you
[37:14] know, so everything we got is a gift.
[37:15] And so any this discrimination stuff, I
[37:18] said, "No way. It'd be bad for us."
[37:20] >> That's because when they gave it to us,
[37:21] they got it flooded. Yeah. But whatever.
[37:24] Um, and and the thing is, if
[37:28] you think about April and May, I mean,
[37:31] if it's a nice day, this place is going
[37:32] to be packed, right? And April, a nice
[37:35] day in April, May be packed. I mean, the
[37:37] traffic can be all the way back up. So,
[37:38] it could be just as busy between April,
[37:40] May as it is on July, July the 4th, it
[37:43] could be very busy because it's just a
[37:45] function. Soon as that weather gets a
[37:46] little better, it'll be packed. So, you
[37:48] know, by I kind of like the idea of no
[37:51] dogs on the beach after 9:00. I like
[37:53] that. I like that. That's when all the
[37:55] people are here. Most of the time, if
[37:56] you're walking down the early in the
[37:58] mornings, it's not that crowded early in
[38:00] the morning. Um, sure. Can the dog run
[38:02] away? He's going to run away. Is he
[38:04] going to dig something up? Yeah. CL
[38:06] somebody's going to cover that's going
[38:07] to happen. Um they do it the rest of
[38:09] year. Um I just think it's a reasonable
[38:12] compromise that these guys have come up
[38:15] with. Uh and if I add one more thing to
[38:17] it, I think it's easy to understand too
[38:19] because one thing is you know when you
[38:20] come down to the beach is like it's like
[38:22] 40 rules you got to follow. Okay. Make
[38:24] sure I don't break all these rules. So
[38:26] you got to kind of read them all. This I
[38:28] think is reasonable to understand. Okay.
[38:30] no dogs on the lease when after 9:00 and
[38:33] you can't go past this this beach access
[38:35] and this one. I think that would be
[38:37] that's reasonable. I think people could
[38:39] get behind that. Don't go to the south
[38:41] end pass where it 42 north end pass
[38:45] number two. I think that kind of makes
[38:46] sense and most of the time that's
[38:48] blocked off anyway and it blocked off
[38:49] most of the summer on the south end. I
[38:52] think most of the time it's got it's
[38:54] fenced off anyway kind of sort of but uh
[38:56] we did have the I can't remember her
[38:58] name. I call her the first lady. Uh she
[39:01] was in the meetings and so was Nancy,
[39:03] the other Nancy. Okay. Uh the turtle
[39:06] lady.
[39:09] But one of the things uh that I think we
[39:12] need to send to the alderman as a
[39:14] recommendation along with whatever we do
[39:16] is and it was discussed in the meeting
[39:18] very thoroughly, we need better signage.
[39:22] Um, when you just say no dogs on the
[39:25] beach,
[39:27] it shouldn't say something like we're
[39:29] serious. The fine is and I think the
[39:31] fine's too low.
[39:33] >> The fine
[39:35] >> Yeah, I think it's too low.
[39:37] >> If we're serious about this, the fine
[39:38] needs to be higher. I mean, the federal
[39:40] government fine for for
[39:43] messing with a uh nesting sea turtle is
[39:47] $100,000.
[39:48] >> That's pretty serious. Well,
[39:50] >> 500 bucks is nothing to
[39:52] >> Well, people we got, you know, you walk
[39:54] out on your public, you got a sign and
[39:56] it goes against rules or whatever and
[39:58] one and people will read that sign and
[40:00] still walk up there light up cigarettes
[40:03] still get their beer open which you know
[40:06] I think as long as you keep it lowkey
[40:07] and you're not out there choking or
[40:10] whatever that shelf is like I've seen on
[40:11] the beach for the most part but but
[40:15] there going to be people that 9:00's
[40:17] going to roll around they're I almost
[40:20] stay and I'm trying to get away with it
[40:22] and find
[40:24] and all you saw again. There's a where
[40:27] breaches in this is a very rough area of
[40:29] water. You're not supposed to be out
[40:30] there. They got a sign and it is as big.
[40:33] The sign is as big as this wall right
[40:35] here and it says no swimming, no
[40:38] waiting, no. And the fine is something
[40:40] like 2743.
[40:42] It's just some weird amount. And he go
[40:45] out in that water every time. Every
[40:48] time. And I'm, you know, I walk out
[40:50] there, my feet wet, but I don't go
[40:51] swimming out there because the current
[40:53] will take you, but they still, you can
[40:55] sign all you want, too. The same thing
[40:57] down here. Yeah. And and it's so
[41:00] dangerous.
[41:00] >> And yeah, there are a lot of rules, no
[41:02] drink, no this for that.
[41:05] >> Did you propose a higher civil penalty
[41:07] when you were on the committee?
[41:08] >> I did. And I didn't win,
[41:11] >> obviously.
[41:12] >> So, you proposed $1,000 and nobody
[41:14] supported you?
[41:15] >> Uh, I'm not going to say no one did. I
[41:17] don't remember exactly what the count
[41:19] was, but we settled on 500.
[41:22] >> Um,
[41:24] and Mike Haynes keeps reminding us it's
[41:26] a it's a pilot program. We're going to
[41:28] try it for one whole season, one whole
[41:30] year. Um, and
[41:33] >> turn it back around again.
[41:36] >> Well, that's going to be up to the
[41:37] alderman and we're going to have to put
[41:39] that in our recommendation to them that
[41:41] we all better monitor this accurately.
[41:44] So, we've got some statistics and
[41:46] because I would venture to say if we
[41:48] went out and asked people to sign a
[41:50] petition
[41:52] for not doing this, we'd probably get
[41:54] 166 signatures in opposition. So, um I
[41:59] think you know I guess we go ahead and
[42:02] pass this somehow and and um see what
[42:06] happens. So I think I think what we need
[42:08] to do is I think we've given a bunch of
[42:10] suggestions to Tony, but I think the
[42:11] first thing we need to do
[42:13] >> is make a recommend um decide
[42:17] based on what we have
[42:19] >> how we feel about how we feel about
[42:21] that. Would it come down to us sending a
[42:24] favorable recommendation to a new or
[42:27] >> I think yeah I think what we can do is
[42:29] look at what we have and um
[42:32] >> like
[42:42] I think that's that's what we did what
[42:43] we have to write down some of our
[42:45] suggestions
[42:48] >> I've got right here definitions
[42:50] enforcement clean up citation. We talked
[42:53] about residential passes,
[42:58] » how many 30 days. We talked about fees,
[43:02] better signage, and increased fines. I
[43:05] mean, that's just things.
[43:07] >> And from and a registration piece, too,
[43:09] because I'm still just that's just
[43:11] something that came up when folks were
[43:12] asking me is when how do you register?
[43:16] Do we make it more expensive to
[43:18] register?
[43:20] I think $10. If you're going to walk
[43:21] your dog on the beach and you're that
[43:23] passionate about it, you want to do it,
[43:25] charge a little bit more.
[43:27] >> I'd also would want to consider I'm all
[43:30] about pilot programs. Try if it doesn't work, toss it, but can we
[43:36] look at this after 30 days, after 60
[43:39] days with like with data behind it, not
[43:41] just say, "Hey, we looked at it. This is
[43:42] what Shannon saw." But like, you know,
[43:45] we videoed driving down the beach three
[43:48] times every Monday, Wednesday, Friday
[43:51] from 6:00 to 9:00. We went out there
[43:53] with a camera and we saw what it looked
[43:55] like. And after 30 days, we're looking
[43:57] at it and we're having the discussion
[43:59] board of alderman looking at they say,
[44:00] "Whoa, this is really bad." But we may
[44:02] say, "Wow, this is great." We don't know
[44:05] unless it's something we actually look
[44:06] at. So, um I would just like to see if
[44:10] we do move forward with it and vote in
[44:12] favor of send it to the alderman that
[44:14] it's
[44:16] we're looking at it not just waiting
[44:18] till next year. Um so that
[44:22] >> well that was discussed in the committee
[44:24] and Haynes brought up a good point.
[44:26] You're not going to know
[44:28] >> in a month a little snapshot of a month
[44:30] or two. It doesn't take you through the
[44:33] holidays. It doesn't take you through
[44:35] the nesting season. that and I agreed I
[44:38] think everybody on the committee agreed
[44:40] with Haynes on that one. A pilot program
[44:43] needs to be a whole season
[44:45] unfortunately.
[44:47] Uh but I think that's the only accurate
[44:50] way to do it. Um there
[44:53] >> the biggest the biggest is are we in
[44:57] is the what what is the number one
[44:59] biggest concern that we have as a as a
[45:01] board? It sounds like you need
[45:03] enforcement like enforcement and I don't
[45:06] think we have the staff
[45:09] >> enforcement
[45:10] 6 a.m. I don't I think Shannon I don't
[45:13] know that he comes very often at 6:00
[45:15] a.m. at 7 and it's just the two guys. So
[45:18] they're going to have to take turns
[45:20] somehow coming at 6:00 a.m. because you
[45:23] got to if you're going to have it at 6,
[45:24] it's got to be monitored at six. So the enforcement is really difficult.
[45:30] Plus the fact that this beach is very
[45:33] like takes an hour and a half to get
[45:34] down the beach.
[45:35] >> Yeah.
[45:36] >> And I think the messaging because people
[45:39] are gonna say dogs on the beach in the
[45:40] summertime.
[45:42] >> They're going to see that one part and
[45:43] they're just going to not even look at
[45:44] six.
[45:45] >> Exactly.
[45:46] >> So the messaging is is absolutely
[45:49] critical. And that big sign at the
[45:51] entrance, no dogs on the beach. Okay.
[45:54] But like, can we get something that's a
[45:56] little bit more cleancut, a little bit
[45:58] nicer, not just a big DOT sign that says
[46:01] no dogs on the beach?
[46:03] >> It's just like the signs we put out that
[46:04] says noise and speed zone and you know,
[46:08] we had it for a while strictly enforced.
[46:11] No, it's not.
[46:13] >> No, it's not.
[46:14] >> Uh, to answer Adam's question, I I found
[46:16] my notes. Um,
[46:19] Hayne said in 2024 there were 43 dogs
[46:23] registered.
[46:27] » In 2025 it went up to 50. Now I'm going
[46:30] to admit I've lived here since 2009. I
[46:33] didn't know we were supposed to buy a
[46:34] tag every year.
[46:36] >> Uh, so I'm going to run down and buy
[46:38] one, but I don't know what good that
[46:40] does.
[46:43] So you're not
[46:52] charging.
[46:53] >> Let's um
[46:55] let's take a vote on are we interested
[46:59] in allowing
[47:01] dogs on moving this forward? Yeah.
[47:05] >> Or what what did you say? I think we
[47:07] would be voting and you correct me like
[47:10] voting on whether we want to move
[47:12] forward with this pilot program as
[47:14] written, right?
[47:15] >> Yes. And I will give them um the
[47:17] comments no matter one way or the other.
[47:19] We'll just say here are the comments
[47:21] from the board it don't approve it.
[47:25] >> And and I think that that that you know
[47:27] they'll understand they're all
[47:29] >> I mean fortunately two of them are here
[47:31] but they'll get more color than just the
[47:33] yes or no.
[47:35] So,
[47:36] >> and Tony, if you can capitalize
[47:38] enforcement.
[47:40] >> So, I guess what we'll do would in favor
[47:44] of moving this pilot program forward.
[47:48] >> Oh, you want to vote? That's why you're
[47:50] going to do a motion. You want to vote?
[47:51] >> I just We don't even need a motion
[47:52] because what they're asking is for
[47:56] >> I'm willing to compromise.
[47:58] We're willing to move it forward. Wait a
[48:00] minute. What? What? So you you're
[48:02] looking at this as the compromise, the
[48:03] new thing that
[48:06] >> in general, I think. What are we
[48:08] interested in general in moving the
[48:10] conversation of limited access of dogs
[48:12] in the beach board? Not necessarily what
[48:14] what's on piece of paper right here. And
[48:16] if we have a favorable recommendation,
[48:18] then Tony also can fill in everything
[48:21] that we all concerns. Yeah.
[48:23] >> Well, like I was said, there alone here,
[48:25] so they've heard it. Now, I will I do
[48:27] want to say one thing, Mr. chair before
[48:28] we vote. The uh folks who brought this
[48:33] forward wanted to do the same thing in
[48:36] the evening. Let them out on the beach
[48:38] during the evening and they proposed no,
[48:43] let's not do that because in the evening
[48:45] people are a little, you know, have a
[48:47] little bit of wine. they're less
[48:48] responsible and the folks who want to
[48:51] walk their dogs out on the beach are
[48:54] getting up with a cup of coffee and
[48:56] walking out there from their home or
[48:57] they're
[48:58] >> plus it's dark at night too so it's
[49:00] harder to see
[49:01] >> in the summertime they want to be able
[49:04] to
[49:04] >> in the evening and they were the one
[49:06] that pulled that proposal from the from
[49:10] this recommendation so I had to hand it
[49:12] to them they compromised on that one
[49:16] >> I would think the change has second. But
[49:18] the enforcement thing really bothers me
[49:21] to say yes, I think you ought to try
[49:23] this because I don't think we are
[49:24] capable of enforcement.
[49:27] >> That's what bothers me the most.
[49:29] >> And and I think I still think just just
[49:31] because we're not allowing we're
[49:32] allowing residents to walk their dogs on
[49:35] the beach and non-residents not. I don't
[49:37] think it's discrimination. They're still
[49:39] allowed.
[49:40] >> Well, after we talk that one through, I
[49:41] agree that's not not fair. But if there
[49:44] was a way to
[49:47] I don't know, get a like a pass
[49:49] for that beach for everybody. But
[49:52] anyway, I mean
[49:55] automatically if you are walking your
[49:57] dog, you absolutely should be
[49:59] registered.
[50:00] >> Yeah. Regardless if you if you're a
[50:02] visitor or not, you still have to have
[50:04] >> Is there a fine associated with not
[50:06] registering all that?
[50:09] >> So there could be a fine $500 fine for
[50:12] >> it's not being and then there could be a
[50:15] separate fine for oh by the way you're
[50:16] on the beach you're not supposed to be
[50:17] after 9 but also you're not registered
[50:20] so here's another $500 fine.
[50:21] >> But if you live somewhere else say
[50:23] you're coming down for a week you can
[50:24] register your dog. Say you're from
[50:25] Raleigh and you bring a dog, you can
[50:29] >> I think a lot of people didn't.
[50:30] >> No, you know, you you just have to
[50:31] register your animal somewhere.
[50:33] >> Okay.
[50:34] >> Yeah. Not if you bring a dog from
[50:36] Wilmington, you don't have to register
[50:38] right from Beach. It just has to be.
[50:41] >> Yeah. And usually when you get your
[50:43] vaccine, they does that for you.
[50:47] >> Okay.
[50:47] >> Yeah. Now, rightful beach is different
[50:49] because you have to have a rightful
[50:51] beach. I know this cuz I got cancer. You
[50:54] register a cat here, not with the
[50:56] county.
[50:57] >> Okay.
[50:58] >> I'm supposed to register all those feral
[51:00] cats at my house.
[51:01] >> 22 kittens.
[51:03] >> I have like
[51:05] this.
[51:06] >> So, let's So, I Who would be in favor of
[51:09] moving some sort of pilot program
[51:10] forward that allow limited access for
[51:12] dogs? I should be in favor of it, but
[51:14] also just
[51:15] >> there's a lot of
[51:17] >> Yes. And with two of the boardman here
[51:20] just I think we've had really good
[51:21] discussion, but I do have concerns, but
[51:24] I also, you know, it's a year, right?
[51:29] So, understanding that there's a lot of
[51:32] things that can happen between now and
[51:33] then, but I still have some concerns.
[51:35] But in regards to the pilot program as
[51:37] it's written, I would
[51:38] >> It's hard to vote yes or no.
[51:40] That's not one last comment. I would
[51:43] assume that the board of alderman if
[51:45] they if we get into the halfway of this
[51:47] pilot program and we've got problems
[51:50] they'll cancel it.
[51:51] >> I would say they have the authority to
[51:52] cancel.
[51:54] >> Yeah, that's written in there.
[51:55] >> So I think we can forward a favorable
[51:57] recommendation.
[51:58] >> What's the vote?
[52:00] >> I think it's six to one.
[52:00] >> It's a question mark. Well, we're not we
[52:03] need
[52:04] >> but not as needs to be a motion and a
[52:07] vote
[52:10] and I think the motion has to be as
[52:11] written. We'll then enforce
[52:14] all
[52:15] someone you're making a motion as
[52:17] written.
[52:17] >> As written.
[52:19] >> All in favor?
[52:22] All
[52:24] right. The two against
[52:30] I think in the comments
[52:31] >> I'll get the comments.
[52:32] >> I think the board is very open to to
[52:35] >> I think it would have been I think it's
[52:36] better instead of taking the vote on the
[52:38] actual what we just voted on. I think
[52:41] it's much more productive for the
[52:42] audience to understand that we are we
[52:45] understand there's a lot of things we
[52:46] have concerns with but when we are
[52:49] favorable in terms of looking at
[52:51] something that we can develop
[52:54] down
[52:58] » you shouldn't have asked for
[53:01] we had a six to1 favorable
[53:03] >> I have to
[53:05] remind
[53:12] Agenda item Bach
[53:26] agenda item.
[53:27] >> Yeah, we're I'm gonna turn the rings
[53:29] over.
[53:30] >> Okay.
[53:36] » All right.
[53:40] » Go ahead.
[53:40] >> Plan board. This is give you some
[53:42] background. Typically, this plan, the hazard, the original hazard
[53:47] mitigation plan has never gone through
[53:48] the plan board. It's been advertised on
[53:51] our website for the past uh probably for
[53:53] the past year. The draft uh ordinances
[53:57] uh is here if if you want to look at it.
[54:00] It's a a plan, a reasonable plan that we
[54:03] went in with Brun County, Kendra County,
[54:06] you had over in Hslo County. Um, but
[54:09] it's it's a plan that helps out during
[54:11] disasters. That's it right there. Yeah,
[54:14] that's it there. It's online.
[54:18] >> So, there's only two sections that you
[54:20] have to look at, but this is going
[54:21] moving forward to the board of alderman
[54:24] uh at the next week's meeting. They'll
[54:27] hopefully pass it with the resolution.
[54:30] um every five years the town did not
[54:32] have to pay for this. Uh a private
[54:34] company come up with it. Staff does give
[54:37] comments on it and during this past year
[54:39] is is Bailey's put it on the town's
[54:42] website and asked for comments and we
[54:45] didn't receive any but
[54:48] >> yeah the town manager just wanted to let
[54:51] y'all be aware of it and uh like I say
[54:54] it's going to the board of alderman next
[54:56] week. If you have any comments, I'll be
[54:58] glad to give it to them. So, what do
[55:00] they do?
[55:01] >> Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead.
[55:03] >> Are they just going to accept it? Is
[55:04] that what they do typically? Just they
[55:06] say we accept bill consent agenda. There
[55:09] may be a few questions here and there,
[55:11] but basically staff put some comments on
[55:14] it. Like one of the things we added this
[55:16] year was for a bulkhead installation was
[55:19] to put that in there in case we get
[55:21] damaged during a storm. Maybe we can get
[55:23] some reimbursements from the federal
[55:25] government on those things. Now is that
[55:27] when you says a plan, it's stuff is
[55:29] activity go forward, right? Go forward
[55:32] activity in there.
[55:33] >> There's actions or things that you want
[55:35] to do actions and most of it's backed up
[55:37] by county. If you look at it, we piggy
[55:40] back with county on this. And how far is
[55:43] the plan go out?
[55:45] >> Four, five year. Every five years this
[55:47] is due. So So that the action steps in
[55:50] are to occur over the next five years.
[55:52] >> Yes. And sometimes they may delay. It
[55:54] just depends on funding. So, just wanted
[55:56] to bring it to your attention. There was
[55:58] no advertisement requirements on this.
[56:00] Uh, so this is the first time. So, if
[56:03] you got comments, I'll be glad to share
[56:05] it with them.
[56:06] >> I I did I didn't read the whole thing,
[56:08] but I did. Tony's got it very well
[56:10] flagged for section 7 to nine. It's
[56:12] focused on that. And it's more it looks
[56:15] more ominous than it is because there's
[56:17] like a page for
[56:19] >> every municipality on every subject. So,
[56:22] that's why it got so thick. But the only
[56:24] thing that I noticed, Tony, that it's
[56:26] always bothered me is um and a lot of
[56:29] municipalities do not have this, but we
[56:31] do not have a post disaster
[56:33] redevelopment ordinance. And I've always
[56:36] wondered what happens when we get the
[56:38] big blow it destroys downtown,
[56:42] >> you know, and I get that question from
[56:43] the highrises all the time.
[56:45] >> Yeah.
[56:46] >> Sue Sue will ask that question. Sue Bull
[56:48] all the time.
[56:49] >> And I think this is what you got to say.
[56:51] Let's say Cat Path towers. Mhm.
[56:53] >> What happens tomorrow if that goes down?
[56:56] Well, there's going to be a lot of
[56:57] things that happen. Those individuals
[56:59] are going to get together, attorney up,
[57:01] change text amendments, ordinances,
[57:03] lawsuits to build it back, and maybe a
[57:06] little bit higher.
[57:07] >> So, I think it's it's difficult to write
[57:10] a post disaster ordinance to cover
[57:14] everything. I think it's it it happens
[57:17] just like if we have a fire in one of
[57:18] these places. Yeah. I think
[57:21] unfortunately I don't know if other
[57:22] communities do. I'll be glad to look at
[57:24] that.
[57:25] >> Most of them don't.
[57:26] >> Yeah, most looked at the list. Most of
[57:28] them don't. But I guess I was thinking
[57:30] and you make a good point about the
[57:32] highrises. I hadn't thought about those,
[57:33] but I'm thinking about downtown where
[57:36] you've got individual little ownerships,
[57:38] >> right?
[57:39] >> And if we lose that and we lose it for a
[57:42] long time, what happens to the town
[57:46] economy?
[57:47] >> Yeah. And should we try to get a
[57:49] disaster plan in place maybe just for
[57:51] that section?
[57:52] >> We we we could and we get questions
[57:54] about that. One of the things that may
[57:56] have to happen, you know, those
[57:58] individuals
[58:00] may have to come and ask for exemptions,
[58:03] variances on their businesses to put
[58:05] them.
[58:06] >> Yeah. They have that happen. Yeah. It's
[58:10] just like a code upgrade. You burn the
[58:12] ground. You don't get to build it back
[58:13] the way it's before with the old wiring.
[58:15] You gota you got to go to the new code
[58:17] >> pretty much pretty much anything you
[58:20] know fire
[58:21] >> dock gets knocked down everything's you
[58:23] couldn't build your house back the way
[58:24] you had
[58:25] >> and you wouldn't but you know had to
[58:28] tear down
[58:29] >> but we get those questions from the
[58:30] yacht club all the time Caroline parking
[58:35] >> but
[58:35] >> I was just thinking if we had a disaster
[58:38] yeah what do they call it a post
[58:40] disaster redevelopment ordinance in
[58:43] place just for the downtown area. It
[58:46] would expedite their ability to reel.
[58:50] >> It's not that we have to do tomorrow,
[58:51] but it seems to me that, you know,
[58:54] >> I'll look into it.
[58:55] >> Might want to consider doing that.
[58:57] >> Like I'd like to know what happened to
[58:58] the people in California that's in that
[59:00] area. They're just sitting there.
[59:02] They're not getting any permits.
[59:04] >> I was thinking the exact same thing you
[59:06] were.
[59:07] >> That's a good suggestion. Would it just
[59:09] burn? And what about Hawaii?
[59:11] >> Where would we think
[59:13] about
[59:14] with what drink.
[59:16] >> But you know, the thing is it's it's not
[59:17] just what the town does because you got
[59:19] the state building codes. I mean, you
[59:21] can't override those, right?
[59:23] >> Got to follow the state building
[59:25] accessibility.
[59:26] >> Yeah. So, it's like layer on top of
[59:28] layer.
[59:29] >> Yeah. You know,
[59:29] >> but look how long it'll take.
[59:32] >> I don't disagree with what you're
[59:33] saying. I think it's a good idea, but
[59:34] it's just like you can't the town just
[59:36] can't wave their hand and say, "Well,
[59:37] we're not going to adhere to the state.
[59:39] We ought to get something." So we don't
[59:42] need to
[59:44] truth that you the state will over
[59:46] >> well you have to of course the state
[59:48] don't know yet
[59:49] >> yeah but there are things that when I
[59:52] say the channel the board of automan can
[59:54] give variances to blood things like that
[59:57] they don't like to but they can
[59:59] >> so we don't need to do anything on this
[1:00:01] >> I'm just tell them I introduce it to you
[1:00:04] and move to them we'll see what and
[1:00:07] Robert's got the last one
[1:00:08] >> we're going to move on to agenda Item C.
[1:00:13] That's right. She's in
[1:00:14] >> charge.
[1:00:21] Pardon me, ma'am.
[1:00:25] » Okay.
[1:00:30] » Sorry. This is just uh this isn't
[1:00:34] anything that needs to be voted on. This
[1:00:35] is just that uh every year we put
[1:00:37] together the planning board u um the
[1:00:41] planning board report which is just a
[1:00:43] compilation of all the planning board
[1:00:45] packets uh from the previous year. I
[1:00:48] include an executive summary,
[1:00:50] attendance, all the um all the agenda
[1:00:53] items and the votes uh on those agenda
[1:00:56] items and then include uh the packet
[1:01:00] sort of as a as a uh table of contents
[1:01:04] for you to review. Um it's nothing that
[1:01:07] you haven't seen. It's just there's a
[1:01:09] brief summary in the very beginning
[1:01:11] followed by all of your packets and then
[1:01:13] we file it away in case we need to refer
[1:01:16] to something quickly. Yeah,
[1:01:17] >> that's that's all it is. This is a we
[1:01:20] present it to the board of alderman. Uh
[1:01:22] Tony wanted to put it on the agenda
[1:01:24] tonight just as just as a heads up just
[1:01:27] to say that yes indeed we did complete
[1:01:30] it.
[1:01:31] >> What's the year? What's the year date?
[1:01:33] Is it December 31st for the town?
[1:01:36] >> Uh
[1:01:36] >> what what's the year?
[1:01:37] >> It goes until Janu uh it goes until
[1:01:39] January. The end of because that's when
[1:01:42] the calendar year ends.
[1:01:43] >> Yeah, that's what what's the town's
[1:01:44] calendar year. Um, well, it it would run
[1:01:48] with the elections when the board
[1:01:50] changes.
[1:01:50] >> Oh, right. Right.
[1:01:52] >> So, they take over in January and then
[1:01:54] >> Yes.
[1:01:55] >> You read it.
[1:01:56] >> I read the page of J.
[1:01:58] >> I uh Robert, there is one uh
[1:02:02] >> found one mistake in there, Robert.
[1:02:04] >> Well, I don't know that really matters,
[1:02:06] but it says in there that I replaced uh
[1:02:09] Cheryl.
[1:02:10] >> Okay.
[1:02:10] >> And I didn't. Uh either Adam or uh
[1:02:15] Andrew.
[1:02:16] >> Andrew did.
[1:02:17] and then I replaced Andrew.
[1:02:19] He had to leave.
[1:02:22] >> Yeah.
[1:02:23] >> So that's the only thing I saw and I
[1:02:26] don't know.
[1:02:26] >> So Cheryl came off of because of terms
[1:02:30] out.
[1:02:31] >> Andrew came off because he moved off the
[1:02:33] beach.
[1:02:34] >> Yeah. He was on for a couple months.
[1:02:36] >> You got him in the in the middle.
[1:02:38] >> We rather have you rather have him.
[1:02:43] I'll adjust the report. I'll just switch
[1:02:45] up that one and
[1:02:46] >> change that one.
[1:02:47] >> I'll change that one page and call it.
[1:02:50] Thank you.
[1:02:54] » Well, I read the summary.
[1:02:58] >> So, if there's nothing else with it, is
[1:03:01] there a motion to adjourn?
[1:03:03] >> I move.
[1:03:04] >> A second.
[1:03:06] You'll need a man crush, not a mad
[1:03:08] actor.