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Our

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God and heavenly father, we come tonight
as we begin this uh planning commission

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meeting to ask of you to grant us
wisdom, grant us guidance as we discuss

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the matters of this township. help us to
make uh decisions that are

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work for the township and are pleasing
to you. Pray this in Jesus name. Amen.

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» Do we have any public comments?

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» Okay, then we're going on to the next
approval of agenda items. We are going

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to delete the land division act. We do
not have that readily available for us.

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And we're going to add um introduction
to manager Howard Fist Pink.

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Thanks, Howard. Would you like to
introduce yourself to us?

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Me and my family. We live in on the
north side of Holland. Um, I have been

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in local government management for over
20ish now, maybe 25 years. Uh, I have a

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degree in planning. Um, so, uh, you
know, one of my expertises is zoning and

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planning. Um, I have a master's in urban
planning from, uh, University of

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Illinois at Chicago. Um and uh so I I do
plan to be present at many of the

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planning commission meetings and to
assist you in in best way that I can uh

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provide you good information and data
and be a resource in case you guys want

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something reviewed, researched, um a
deeper dive, if you will. One area that

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I have quite a bit of experience in is
farmland preservation. Um there's a

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there's kind of some funny stories as to
how that expertise came. Um but uh

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sufficees to say I was in an area where
that was uh a huge um uh important topic

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and and one that was focused on and so
um I have quite a bit of background and

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education in that. Um and would love to
impart that to you all. Uh and obviously

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um uh continue to to have that
discussion of what does farmland

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preservation look like and how do you
actually do it? um as opposed to um you

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know firing it. Um so that's me in a
nutshell. Um I have a family. Um my wife

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is a teacher at Black River. Uh my two
kids go to Black River as well. They're

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11 and nine. And I have enjoyed very
much the last two, three weeks. That's

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been quite a a lot to get thrown at uh
in terms of, you know, just trying to

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digest all of the things and uh figuring
out where everything is located and all

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the new information. But what I would
say is I've I've very much enjoyed the

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people. I've enjoyed the board. Um I I
it really does feel like a great fit. Uh

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and I hope it's a long-term fit. So with
that, um you have any questions?

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» Thank you, Howard. Anybody have a
question for them?

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Welcome to Zealand Township.
Okay, on to the minutes. I will need to

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have an approval of the August 11, 2026
planning commission meeting minutes. Is

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there any changes or are we ready for an
approval?

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» Favor say I.
>> I oppose. Same sign. minutes have been

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approved.
We will then go on to the discussion

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items.
Um Howard, would you like to take number

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A, which is a draft community engagement
plan?

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» Yes. Um so in your packets um we uh have
outlined

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um the engagement plan that staff has
been working on. Um,

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one of the things that we need to do
today is to

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provide that to you all. Um, and then,
uh, at a a subsequent meeting, the

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planning commission will sort of
officially take over the process of the

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community engagement plan, uh, the
master plan survey and and other

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elements of the master plan. Um, the the
key for tonight is to really get the

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survey done. The community engagement
plan is is also in front of you. Uh

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fundamentally we are looking at a
planning process that includes kind of

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three educational sessions. One
educational session on farmland

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preservation, one educational session on
housing and one educational session on

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kind of data centers and and
renewable energy. Along with those

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education centers, there will also be
work uh group uh or focus groups. Um and

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and Tanya and her team at Williamson
Works will be facilitating those kind of

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community meetings. Um there will be a
kind of community meeting gathering on

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each of those three topics. Um and then
uh lastly

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uh kind of kind of putting it all
together on a from a land use package as

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well. Um
following that uh you know obviously

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we're working on um the master plan and
the various chapters. Uh some of those

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chapters will be completed by the time
that it comes to you officially. Uh but

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there will still be quite a bit of leg
work to to pick up once it is in front

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of the planning commission. Um uh Tanya
is your point person uh for the all

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things process in terms of the master
plan. Uh but that doesn't mean that you

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have to comply with the thought process
that we had had with those three areas

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you know farmland preservation housing
and data centers renewable energy. you

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can you could shift uh those those are
the three areas that we felt were kind

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of critical to this master planning
process. Um and so we think that there's

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a lot of value in those three areas. Um
but again once it's in the planning

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commission hands uh it's your decision
of how you feel best uh to engage the

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community uh to gather feedback from
various stakeholders um and and

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eventually to you know facilitate the
creation of the master plan. Um Tanya

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did I miss anything?

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Tanya maybe if

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I go ahead and introduce Tanya.
[laughter]

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» Okay, let's go to B.
We're going to look at the draft survey

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and this is where supervisor Bosma will
introduce um Tanya.

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» Thank you Tanya for coming on out. So I
just wanted to take a few moments

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because it is worthy of a pause of a
meeting to highlight um planner deva um

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as we all lovingly call her Tanya. I
just want to say thank you so much.

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she's come to um interview when we were
looking at different planners in a

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blizzard, like legitimate blizzard came
over here when we were trying to figure

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out who we were going to work with. Not
only did she impress many of us with

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just her compassion of the pressures
that our township currently faces, she

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also has worked with the communities
that have dealt with some of the

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pressures that we are currently facing.
So, I'm very excited to see how she can

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help really help you all plan through
this. just I I took a few notes. So, she

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is um an AICP
planner. Um going through the Williams

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and Works um on their website, you'll
see Williams and Works, we build

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relationships with our clients. We work
with you, not for you. Being an

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employeeowned company means that our
attention to detail costs is extremely

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important. We mean team approach to our
assignments and collectively strive to a

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more efficient and economical in our
business practices. we frequently

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collaborate to um develop
[clears throat]

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uh I mean and then they go on to all of
these different tasks that they can and

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I would just like to say her attention
to detail of what she's been doing for

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our um the committee that's been working
on the master plan. I've been really

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appreciative of the work that she's
done. I you all are in good hands

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because I know that this can be taxing
but she is definitely has the colle um

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approach and is very very kind but very
knowledgeable and when we talk about hey

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there's this timeline of of these three
training sessions that to go through

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there'll be a training session at the
planning commission and then there'll be

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a public engagement and that is where
her and her her team really shine

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brightly even more so than what we've
seen here. I've been out meeting

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multiple different municipalities across
the region here this the past year and

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when people have found out that we're
redoing our master plan and they always

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ask who are you using and every single
party has said to me that is so great

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that your township chose Williams and
work so I just want to tee up Tanya

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thank you
[laughter]

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thank you um [clears throat]
so um so yes so hi it's nice to meet all

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of you. I'm excited to to work with you.
Um, so just to kind of pick that up. So,

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um, I guess so would you like me to do
talk about the survey itself or I wasn't

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quite sure in in terms of responding to
Howard's thing. Where would you like me

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to kind of go ahead and and start?
>> Why don't you respond to Howard first

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and then we'll get into the survey
because we really want to digest that.

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» Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That sounds good. Um,
so yes, like what Howard laid out. Um

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and then what supervisor Bosma um or
Carrie uh you know by the way call me

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Tanya don't ever call me planner de
Alivera that's very it's very it was

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very nice but I'm Tanya um so we have
been um developing something that we

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feel like is responsive to what your
community um is has desired. So um we've

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been I've been working with the your
community for several months in the

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sense of with the steering committee
developing a couple of what I call

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objective chapters. So these are
chapters that more or less document the

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state of the community whether it's like
the condition of the roads or hydraology

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and you'll get those later. Today, um,
we want to focus on community engagement

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and I'm here to be as responsive to, um,
ask answering questions, asking

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questions, um, doing things for
community engagement that help, um,

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educate um, answer questions and really
develop a master plan that will be

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useful to the planning commission and
the township board members as well as

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approachable for your community members.
Um, I, you know, I'm happy to kind of

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make the master well of course make the
master plan what you guys like, but I

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kind of like the less is more and not
esoteric and not full of words and you

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know um really unnecessary information
when that can mean a different things to

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different communities. Um but we really
want to dial in and make sure that we

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get the engagement uh right and is
flexible and fluid um but yet is um

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intentional to help us then it's not
just engagement for engagement sake but

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inform what the goals of the master plan
will end up being inform the uh the

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future land use map and uh the classes
right the narratives that are inform the

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names that are on those maps as well as
like the implementation chapter. So

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everything that we're doing for
community engagement, all the questions,

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all the activities during the workshops,
the the the dialogues that we will have

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are going to be intentional and we will
do our best to weave those together in a

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report succinctly that over the course
of a couple months you might be sort of

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head might be spinning. But the idea is
is through at the end of the engagement

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process or time when we go say when we
go to work on all right well what should

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the goals of the master plan be or that
future land use map and those

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narratives. Well I know what I I know
what I bring to the table you know I

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have my institutional knowledge the hats
I wear the people I talk with the groups

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I kind of represent but what did the
community say again a couple months ago?

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That report um will be there that
documents the things that happen as well

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as tell the story. So you can have your
institutional knowledge with that

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compendium or that whole resource that
documents and is is transparent

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summarizes um the engagement that
happens and the results. So um that's

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just to say uh you know I'm happy to
move at the pace of the um the community

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in terms of you know keeping things
moving along but if we need to spend a

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little bit more time happy to do that.
um if we need to kind of move things

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along a little bit because everybody's
sort of getting the point and or there's

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people just have fewer questions, I'm
happy to do that as well. Um and I think

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you could kind of speak to that because
we've had some um some changes along the

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way in terms of the way the master plan
has kind of we're meeting and how things

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are changing here. And I I'm again I'm
happy to respond to what the community

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wants and is best for the development of
a master plan that will be most useful

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to Zealand Township. So, um, that's kind
of my response to Howard. Um, I'm happy

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to move on and, um, address any other
comments or questions.

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» Planning Commission have any comments,
questions, or anything we want to add?

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Anything else you want to add to that?
>> Good.

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» Got a question.
>> Yes.

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» How have things been going so far? I
mean, as far as pacing or how you how

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this process typically goes, any
surprises?

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» Um, no. I think what I've been pleased
at one, um, so the steering committee,

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we've met, um, for the last several
months, the pace has been, um, so with

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with the master plan, you kind of follow
you do a couple chapters that again, I

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call them the objective chapters. They
document things. Um, I bring I brought

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them forward a chapter at a time uh, to
the steering committee members. you

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know, they have like a week or so to
review the chapter. Um, and then at the

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meeting, we come and discuss edits. You
know, you guys know the community better

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than I do. It's only as good as the
information we have access to. And the

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group uh comes back with edits. And
that's good because I know if nobody has

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read it, if everyone just sits and
stares at me, oh, it was great. That's

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that is nice to hear. But this is not
about, you know, no edits. This is about

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getting things right or asking
questions. you know, what is missing,

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what seems like fluff and isn't really
necessary. Um and so the conversation

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has gone well and there have been some
times where people you know we really

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want to dig into this or you know make
sure that we're documenting the um the

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water lines in the right way or what's
really happening with the um uh two is

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it 231 the um m dot you know potential
for um an exchange expansion and um the

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steering committee has asked me to go
back and do some research and bring back

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like an edited version to them and we
talk about it a little bit and kind of

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move on. So, it's been iterative an
iterative process, right? It kind of

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does the loops where it's not circles,
it's kind of the loop-de-loops. Um, and

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that's good because you're building your
knowledge and you're invested in the

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process. Um, and then I will also say I
mean every you know um is there anything

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else? No, I think that's a really good
summary and I'm excited to bring it to

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the planning commission. You guys are
all the going to be the users of it. Um,

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so we want to make this as as useful to
you all as possible and that, you know,

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that doesn't happen overnight. Um, that
will take a little bit of time and

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that's that we have time to do that
right now and to do it right. So, um,

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that's how it's been going so far. We've
had a couple public members show up at

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the public meetings. Nobody's said
anything, but you know that that's not

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like good or bad. It's just a couple
people have shown up um, and been

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present. So, yeah, that's what I think
I'd like to to share or have to say

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about it. Yeah, that's good to hear. I
mean, being one of the newer trustees on

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the board, I've never been through this
process before. So, it's nice having

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someone that's familiar with how this
works, and I think we may maybe have

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some folks on the planning commission,
too, that maybe haven't done this

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before. So, uh it's it's good to make
sure that we're we're kind of staying on

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track. We have some kind of a reference
to keep us there. Appreciate your help.

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» Yeah.

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» Questions, comments.

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Okay. Thanks, Tanya. Um, we are going to
get into the Zealand Charter Township

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master plan survey.
>> I can I just want to bring up one thing

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to make sure we corrected on the draft
community engagement plan. It shows the

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PC meeting kickoff is October 15th and
it should be October 13th because that's

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the our meeting date.
15th is a Thursday. So, just so you

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know, Tanya, we meet the second Tuesday
of every month

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» at 7 o'clock. Correct.
>> Yeah.

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» Yep.
>> So, and my my understanding is I will be

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present now at your meetings for the
duration um to help facilitate the

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master plan. So,

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other corrections or anything on the

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Okay, we'll switch that from October 15
to October 13 at 7 o'clock.

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Okay, then we're ready for the township
master plan survey.

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» I'm happy to. Yeah. So, um the draft
master plan survey that you see in front

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of you is a draft. Uh the steering
committee has seen it um seen it twice

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in that the first time they saw it, it
was a real

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um just sort of general, you know,
questions. They um the steering

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committee just said, "Well, give us
something that you generally provide."

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We didn't get too much in the details
like into the specifics of what might

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actually fit the township. And then this
last meeting we had it was really and at

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sorry at that first meeting we really
discussed um you know some general

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things of the township and what would
make sense. At this last steering

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committee meeting we really got into the
details of what would make sense and

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really critiqued the survey um further.
And then this is like the you know the

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next iteration. The idea here with the
survey, um, you do a survey for a couple

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different reasons when you do a master
plan. One is everybody can take it any

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time at their convenience, whether
they're a first shift worker, third

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shift worker. Um, you know, they're
they're homebound or, you know, they're

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they're waiting in line for pickup or
they're at the, you know, I don't know,

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bank dropping off, you know, expenses or
something. Um, also, you see that this

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is a paper copy. the um the survey will
be online, but um we always find it

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handy to have it advertised um that
there are printed copies available at

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the township hall. So that way people
can take it if they're not comfortable

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with technology or they would prefer not
to just like paper. Um they are included

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at the same level, you know, like
there's not any lesser accounting for a

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paper copy. Um we just have to enter it
ourselves. Um, and so the survey too,

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you want to kind of find the sweet spot.
Of course, every community is a little

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bit different, but you want to find the
sweet spot of asking enough questions to

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get some useful information combined
with being able to keep people's um

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attention span. So, you know, some
communities, you know, people are like

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seven minutes, like it doesn't matter.
Like you got seven minutes to get

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people's, you know, they have seven
minutes of attention and that's all you

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have. Other communities will use their
master plan survey. they're asking 30

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plus questions because they really want
to get into um you know getting as many

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people to get feedback on particular
topics. A master plan survey can be a

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variety of topics. Uh for this one in
particular it's a little more sort of

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general but you can dive into housing
related questions or transportation land

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use um obviously and we try not to use
um like speaker or um planner speakers

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like ling like fancy language that no
one understands. So, for example, in the

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survey that we did, um, Linda when she
was reviewing it, she was on the

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steering committee, there was a word
viewshed. She's like, I don't really

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know what that means. Can you explain
it, Tanya? And I said, well, another

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word is view, and why don't we just
change the word to view instead of

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viewshed because if you don't know,
other people in the, you know, in the

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public, the community won't know. Um, so
because we really want to have people if

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they take the survey, like if they click
on the link or they, you know, take a

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paper survey, we want them to complete
it all the way through and hopefully

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have it be understandable. Um, so with
that, um, this survey has been put

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together with intentionality and had
some other, um, eyes on it. And so

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today, um, I'm happy to take any
comments or or comments of course, but

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also edits. Um, and then Howard or
Carrie said, I can't remember which,

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we're hoping to have it go out in the
newsletter because the idea is is um,

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survey might be out there, but unless
anyone knows that it's out there, no

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one's going to take it. And so the
survey can pre be promoted through the

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newsletter if the township wants to put
it on their website, on your social

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media page. Uh you can also send out
text or email to your text groups and

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your friends and call in those favors
and say, "Guys, you know, I know like,

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you know, I'm working on this master
plan. The township really needs you. You

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know, can you can you do me this favor?
It'll take you like 10 minutes. Um you

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know, we have anywhere we have a we have
a community survey out right now for in

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a township down in Kazoo. There's over a
thousand people that have taken it. We

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also have more rural communities who've
never done a master plan and less than

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100 people take it. So, it's really
about you um helping to get the word out

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there to in terms of how many people
will take the survey. Um so, with that,

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I will stop talking and um take any
comments or questions, edits that you

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have or I can also go through the survey
starting with question one and so on and

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so forth.

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00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:08,480
Hey Tanya, I I will start out. I'm stuck
on number three. I live in a single

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family home, but I live on a farm. Am I
going with single family home or other

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as a farm or is it just the home that
you're looking for?

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» It would just be the structure.
>> Okay.

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As we look through this, let's um really
digest it. Um I don't know if you go

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through each one individually and and do
your own or if you want to

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» I have some edits I want to talk about
and I want to apologize first.

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» I'm an economist
that is surveying.

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00:27:44,559 --> 00:27:51,039
» Yeah. Well, so can can I can I talk
about that a second? Yes. This is not a

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statistically valid survey.
>> Right. Let me just be clear. If you

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wanted a statistically valid survey, it
would cost you thousands of dollars.

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00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:05,120
» And right, so this is meant to get a
taste, a sample. It is not meant to be a

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social scientist instrument. And so all
those urges that you have, I have a lot,

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» right? I [laughter] say that because I
took

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» feelings. I I Yes. Um I I I took social
science um classes in college and in

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00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:24,399
grad school. this this does not pass the
sniff test for all of those things. But

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00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:28,799
the alternative is you don't you don't
get a survey. So we're trying to balance

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00:28:27,039 --> 00:28:32,480
again u I want to listen to your
comments but I just want I want you to

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know [laughter] I know that this is not
a statistically valid survey. So with

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that
>> I can cross that. Okay. [laughter]

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00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:46,679
» All right question comes up.
>> What online service is hosting this?

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Survey Monkey

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» H1.
Well, you said people can take it more

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than once.
>> So, technically they can. We have like a

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there's like a button like behind the
scenes we can we can see all like behind

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00:29:00,399 --> 00:29:07,440
the house, you know, workings. So, we
can have a button that either lets

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00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:13,279
people take it once per device or um or
more than once. So when people go to the

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00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:17,840
library, if one person takes the survey,
uh then that device is no longer able to

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00:29:15,679 --> 00:29:23,120
use it. So a lot of times we toggle off
the use once per device. Um but that is

316
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:26,720
up to the majority of the planning
commission and how they feel. But we do

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00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:32,399
have ability to do that one way or the
other. And I will also say we typically

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we can also see like through IP
addresses and we don't have people don't

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take the survey like 20 times. So, but
that I mean, so that's what I can kind

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of speak to at
>> that's actually a valid thing because

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and and I why I'm going to speak on this
is just because the experience I've seen

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um
with our MPSC case that's below

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00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:02,720
in front of MPSC right now when where
you make public comments and I see a lot

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00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:06,960
of people coming in there that aren't
even from around here and and putting

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00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:14,320
copies and copies of the same exact
things. They're just loading it up with

326
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:19,279
» crap. Okay. And I I'm concerned because
this does have a flavor of stuff with

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00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:25,840
solar and stuff in here. Okay. And
renewables and that. And I would be

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00:30:21,919 --> 00:30:31,039
concerned that any outside people if Oh,
there's a barcode. I can go access that.

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And then I would be concerned if they
could take it more than once.

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a way to make it so it's just Zealand
Township too.

331
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,320
» No. Nope.

332
00:30:41,679 --> 00:30:50,840
» Valid concern.
>> In my experience, you're not going to

333
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,840
» These are valid questions.

334
00:30:57,679 --> 00:31:02,440
» Very rare that you're going to get

335
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:13,520
in a normal situation. Okay,
>> we're it's not been normal the last six

336
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:19,919
months to a year. And that's why I'm
very concerned with that. I'm very

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00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:23,600
heavily involved with this MPSC case and
what's going on with it and the public

338
00:31:21,679 --> 00:31:29,840
comments and everything else. And Dennis
has too and a few of us have. And there

339
00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:36,080
are a lot of bad actors out there
against our township.

340
00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:41,039
So I have a big concern with that.
>> Worried about bots

341
00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:47,600
» bots or
outside outside

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00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:51,760
paid groups that get paid to agitate and
and change

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00:31:49,760 --> 00:32:00,240
change things like this. So far we have
not seen where a community has a solar

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00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:06,159
or data center or um wind or or battery
storage like a a project going through

345
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:09,440
their planning commission right you know
contentionality right that's happening

346
00:32:07,919 --> 00:32:13,279
right because those are and we actually
we're serving township as their planner

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00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:17,200
of record that's one of the communities
that's really going through the ringer

348
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:23,360
right now right we have not we have not
seen right that and then simultaneously

349
00:32:19,919 --> 00:32:28,399
their master plan um process being blown
up by outside people. Is there a level

350
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:31,279
of concern um and from the public and a
level of scrutiny at the like for the

351
00:32:29,919 --> 00:32:37,519
planning commission to make sure to get
it right? Yes. But we haven't seen that

352
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:43,919
like outside piece of information um
come in. So I just want to offer that as

353
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:47,440
a as a kind of like a response.
>> Well, that's what my concern is if we're

354
00:32:45,919 --> 00:32:50,080
going to that people can take it more
than once.

355
00:32:48,159 --> 00:32:54,960
» Sure. So an answer would be you just
toggle that off so everybody who takes

356
00:32:51,760 --> 00:33:00,760
it like it's one time per use um you
know for your phone or your tablet or

357
00:32:57,039 --> 00:33:00,760
whatnot but yeah

358
00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:07,240
» right
>> it's not an individual

359
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,760
» I mean I've got
>> and I can't imagine that

360
00:33:09,919 --> 00:33:14,640
» I've got a phone and a laptop and an
iPad so I could technically

361
00:33:13,279 --> 00:33:20,480
» yeah you could take it three time right
so there's no perfect way around that

362
00:33:17,919 --> 00:33:22,399
you have it per device which is good.
>> Okay.

363
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:26,399
» You know, but if you have it that
there's the same device can take it

364
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:30,559
multiple times. That's where I have a
concern. My opinion.

365
00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:34,720
» Yeah. I always had a question in there.
You know, if I was doing like 10 county

366
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:39,200
parks, they go to multiple parks. Have
you taken the survey before?

367
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:43,360
» Yes or no? And in certain cases, at a
certain point in the study, it was a

368
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:48,760
kill question. If they said yes, thank
you.

369
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,760
Other times, it was okay.

370
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:58,799
But if with bots it would be a kill
question. Um but with firing somebody

371
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:06,240
they would just say no. So I don't I
don't know the way around that.

372
00:34:01,919 --> 00:34:11,040
» But at least if there's one per you know
I mean we still could get bad actors in

373
00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:14,040
there but not one bad actor may doing 10
surveys.

374
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:29,599
So, we know we've got a concern there.
So, let's continue on. Christian, did

375
00:34:25,599 --> 00:34:34,800
you have any other ones that you want to
>> I can be fast, I promise.

376
00:34:30,879 --> 00:34:41,200
» Okay. Well, why don't you uh do all your
questions first and then we'll go step

377
00:34:37,359 --> 00:34:45,200
by step through the survey.
For question two, u if you live in the

378
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:50,240
township, do you own or rent your
residence? Do we want to know I mean

379
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:55,440
they're going to own rent? I do not live
or the other. Do we want to add if

380
00:34:52,320 --> 00:35:01,200
they're living with someone or
>> So this is the idea that um usually when

381
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:06,320
you have a survey, you typically have a
lot of people who own their property or

382
00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:11,040
their house rather that is responding to
this. And it's helpful to know and to

383
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:15,200
see if you're getting some people who
are renting to respond to your master

384
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:18,400
plan because they're part of your um
community as well,

385
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:22,000
» but if they live with family, so they're
not owning or renting.

386
00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:25,440
» But there's questions later on in the
survey that kind of address that with

387
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:29,359
the multi-generational and
>> and yeah, and I think that goes to

388
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:33,359
question three. I think after question
three, question 13 and 15 should be

389
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:38,560
inserted.
>> Okay, go back to question two. I mean,

390
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:42,720
» I do not live in the township. Wouldn't
that kick it out right away or not?

391
00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:47,359
» So, we don't have that as a question to
like a kill question. We have that. So,

392
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:52,720
when you're, you know, when you get the
results or when we're um so when we can

393
00:35:50,079 --> 00:35:56,560
kind of see the survey responses in real
time, kind of back of the house stuff,

394
00:35:54,640 --> 00:36:01,119
if something's looking funny, I'll
contact Howard or Carrie and let them

395
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:05,920
know like something's up. We have not
had that before. Um I do master plan

396
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:11,359
like master planning is one of the major
main primary things that I do. Um but it

397
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:15,359
also lets you know like let's say 5% of
the people respond a question two is I

398
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:20,000
don't live in the township. You can say
oh about 5% of the people then responded

399
00:36:17,599 --> 00:36:24,960
and five you know you can also do what's
called crosstabulations. So we can kind

400
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:30,400
of remove because the way that the um
survey monkey uh collects the data and

401
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:36,640
then um gives it to us, we can then
actually um when we're doing the

402
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:41,680
analysis remove those um answers like
the whole way through the survey. So

403
00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:45,520
that way you could just um get rid of
them. However, people who live in the

404
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:49,599
city of Zealand would select this.
people who live in the city of

405
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:54,800
Hudsonville would select that if they
wanted to take your survey which again

406
00:36:51,920 --> 00:37:00,640
uh there's few people who will take a
master plan in the in the if they don't

407
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:04,400
live in the community. Um so it's uh
there again just so you know if

408
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:09,680
someone's taking the master plan and I
mean um if they're if they live in the

409
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:14,640
township or not.
>> That's where after question two

410
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:19,920
I think question three follows that well
but three, it should jump to how long

411
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:25,440
how long have you lived in Zealand,
which is question 13. And then question

412
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:28,880
15, which would
answer her question. Which of the

413
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:33,359
following best characterizes your
connection to the township

414
00:37:32,079 --> 00:37:36,359
resident? I should it should say
resident.

415
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:42,160
» Oh, what you're saying is the order of
the questions.

416
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:47,040
» Yeah, they're in the demographic
section. I don't think 13 and 15 are

417
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:53,040
demographic questions.
I think they would be better suited in

418
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:57,599
my opinion after question three
because we're still establishing our

419
00:37:55,040 --> 00:38:02,800
survey taker. That's how question one,
two, and three were who's taken our

420
00:37:59,599 --> 00:38:09,280
survey? They live here. They own single
family. They've been here x number of

421
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:13,760
years. They are a resident. They said we
do not live in the township for number

422
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:18,400
two. Question 15 would then clarify
they're a business owner. Okay. So they

423
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,920
but this is their connection to the
township.

424
00:38:19,599 --> 00:38:26,079
» Would you also include question 13 and
14?

425
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:30,000
» 13 I 13 I would include 14 is a
demographic question. I'd keep that in

426
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:33,760
the demographics. Uh once you get to
demographics people get touchyfey about

427
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:37,440
answer
>> and you wouldn't have the demographics

428
00:38:35,119 --> 00:38:44,000
in the beginning.
>> That's no my experience has taught me

429
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:49,760
that's the quickest way to get a No sir.
Especially when you ask income.

430
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:53,760
» Okay. So we're okay with one, two, and
three

431
00:38:51,119 --> 00:38:57,359
» and then we should jump to 13 and then
to 15.

432
00:38:55,119 --> 00:38:59,680
» That's how I feel that it should flow
because those are establishing the

433
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,617
survey taker.
>> Tanya, any questions on that?

434
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:06,400
» Happy to do what you guys want.
[laughter]

435
00:39:03,839 --> 00:39:11,599
» Okay. Anybody else? I understand what
Christian is saying.

436
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:14,240
So between three and four we would add
we would move 13 and 15 there. You're

437
00:39:13,839 --> 00:39:18,160
saying
>> I would make question two a skip logic.

438
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,839
I do not live in the township. It goes
straight to 15. Well what's your

439
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:25,200
connection
>> if I believe with survey monkey if you

440
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:30,079
do skip logic it will end up making it a
lot more complicated along down the

441
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:37,520
line. We tend to not use rarely if ever
do we use skip logic. Um,

442
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:43,119
so I'm I would advocate that we don't um
but to So I was I did So you said two,

443
00:39:40,079 --> 00:39:45,440
three. Yep. Two, three, and then 13. Is
that what

444
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:50,440
» 2, three, 13, 15?
>> Okay.

445
00:39:45,839 --> 00:39:50,440
» And then four starts asking opinions.

446
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:58,960
» I didn't know where to ask this
question, but we have and not that it's

447
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:02,480
a big draw, but and I don't know if it
belongs in the master plan, but we don't

448
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:07,440
really have anything about short-term
rentals, but again, we're not Grand

449
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:11,920
Haven.
People are uh buying homes for

450
00:40:09,599 --> 00:40:15,200
short-term rentals, but do we want a
question that addresses?

451
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,280
» But that wouldn't be their primary
residence.

452
00:40:15,839 --> 00:40:20,720
» No, but no, but if we get to number
four, what type of housings are needed?

453
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:24,320
And we have all these.
>> So, when we're looking at the type of

454
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:28,480
housing, we tried to stick to a
short-term rental is a kind of how you

455
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:32,960
program your your your your residential
structure, right? Just like condominiums

456
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:37,440
are a type of ownership style. It's not
a housing type. So these are supposed to

457
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:43,599
be if you look on the next page then you
see images. Um these are the way that

458
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:48,320
we're trying to you know when someone
says condo it can actually mean a

459
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:52,720
variety of things. Um
and so you know right like in people's

460
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:57,119
minds is was what I was referring to. So
the question four is about the types of

461
00:40:55,440 --> 00:41:01,440
housing and we're not we're trying to be
less uh let's say use more common

462
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:05,440
language right instead of saying housing
structure right just housing and the

463
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:10,000
images then correspond and so your
short-term rentals it's it's a way that

464
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:13,839
you would program using your residence
not so much um the actual like housing

465
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:18,720
type. So
>> I'm gonna I'm gonna jump in if if I if

466
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:24,319
you don't mind. I'm gonna just add a
little bit of element to what

467
00:41:21,599 --> 00:41:28,400
just a little bit different.
Um, when you talk about short-term

468
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:34,640
rentals, we need to understand what the
existing zoning says on short-term

469
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:39,680
rentals. I believe, if I'm not mistaken,
you don't really there's short-term

470
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:44,640
rentals are not permitted uh in the
township, right? So, unless it's

471
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:51,200
specifically authorized in your zoning
code in terms of um uh you you say in a

472
00:41:49,119 --> 00:41:55,599
residential district, we are allowing
short-term rentals um and it's

473
00:41:53,680 --> 00:42:01,760
specifically authorized in that
residential zoning classification,

474
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:06,000
they're essentially prohibited. And so,
uh, it's I'm not saying we shouldn't ask

475
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:09,760
a question about short-term rentals, but
before we ask that question, I want to

476
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:16,160
make sure that the planning commission
is aware of that legal kind of

477
00:42:13,839 --> 00:42:19,200
definition, if you will. That make
sense?

478
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:24,400
» What do you consider short-term rental?
>> The the law considers short-term rental

479
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:31,119
anything less than 28 days. 28 days or
less. And if if if it is not expressly

480
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:36,240
authorized in your zoning code, they are
prohibited.

481
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:41,520
And just trust me on that. I [laughter]
I spent the last I spent the last, you

482
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:46,319
know, seven years dealing with this
issue in Park Township. It's very clear

483
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:51,680
under the law that you have to expressly
authorize them unless you allow um you

484
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:55,920
know, unless you allow hotels and motel
in your residential zoning districts.

485
00:42:53,280 --> 00:43:02,640
and that there's a loophole there.
>> But I so my sense is that if you look at

486
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:06,960
the the legal definition of short-term
rentals, my sense is that they're not

487
00:43:04,319 --> 00:43:11,920
permitted uh in Zealand Township. That
doesn't necessarily mean we're going out

488
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:16,319
and, you know, enforcing and regulating,
right? There is such a thing as

489
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:21,839
selective enforcement, but under the the
under the legal statute, under the uh

490
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:25,920
you know, in terms of are they allowed,
my sense is that they're they're not

491
00:43:23,839 --> 00:43:33,440
they're permitted prohibited
>> that motel in residential or egg.

492
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:36,400
uh
in a

493
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:42,280
» you're talking about the BU
>> in a PUD

494
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,280
in a PUB.

495
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:48,720
» Okay. Because there are Airbnbs
in Zealand.

496
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:55,040
» There may very well be and there are
Airbnbs all throughout America. Um, but

497
00:43:52,720 --> 00:44:01,839
under the look Michigan law, under the
Supreme Court of the Spring Lake case,

498
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:07,839
which was ruled about 4ish years ago,
you have to expressly pro permit uh

499
00:44:06,079 --> 00:44:13,760
short-term rentals in your residential
district. That that case identified

500
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:17,839
short-term rentals as pantamount to a
hotel or a motel. And so unless you

501
00:44:16,319 --> 00:44:21,119
expressly authorize them in their
residential zoning classifications, they

502
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:25,040
are not permitted.
>> That when they came up with the

503
00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:29,200
short-term rental licensing,
>> however they do it.

504
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:34,800
» So you only have the rule, you only have
the rights. No. Short answer is no. The

505
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:40,880
long answer is you only have the rights
given to you by the governmental entity

506
00:44:37,359 --> 00:44:44,560
above you. In zoning law, you only have
the rights given to you that it's

507
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:50,800
expressly authorized under the zoning
code. So if you look at your zoning um

508
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:55,440
use classification under your
residential, you will see certain

509
00:44:53,119 --> 00:45:01,040
classes there. You know, residential is
allowed, farm is allowed, you know,

510
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:06,319
various things. You only have the rights
given to you by the zoning district,

511
00:45:04,079 --> 00:45:12,480
right? And so if you're not provided
those rights, it doesn't mean the

512
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:15,920
absence the the the the silence of those
rights does not mean that you are

513
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:20,720
permitted. It means that you're
prohibited. So if there's something

514
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:24,880
that's not identified in your zoning
code, that doesn't mean that you can go

515
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:30,079
do it. It means that you can't do it
unless the township expressly gives you

516
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:36,800
that right. And this is how short-term
rentals got so confusing is because

517
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:43,119
after COVID it it it ballooned. It
became this massive issue. No one had

518
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:48,480
any language in their zoning ordinances.
And so there was no it was almost you

519
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:52,880
had to deal with this after the fact,
right? Because it became so prolific.

520
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:57,359
And then all of a sudden when the
Supreme Court case came out in Spring

521
00:45:54,960 --> 00:46:01,760
Lake and that ruling came out from the
Michigan Supreme Court, then the

522
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:06,720
communities, it was very clear that if
you wanted to allow short-term rentals,

523
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:10,160
you had to expressly permit it.
>> Does it matter if they're renting a

524
00:46:08,319 --> 00:46:14,319
house or a bedroom?
>> No.

525
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,640
» Airbnb and it's just a bedroom in their
house. That's still considered a short

526
00:46:16,079 --> 00:46:19,760
term.
>> I believe that's accurate. You want to

527
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:25,200
check with your legal counsel on that
though. But yes,

528
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:31,000
and and the statute or the the state
generally defines short-term rentals as

529
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:31,000
28 days or less.

530
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,440
Okay.

531
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:45,359
Uh question five. Are we okay to go on?
Uh for question five, I'm just wondering

532
00:46:42,079 --> 00:46:50,880
um based on my experience if we want to
quantify some of those categories. Young

533
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:57,560
families, do we want to add age brackets
there? Senior citizens, do we want to

534
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,560
say 65 or 60 and above?

535
00:46:57,599 --> 00:47:05,119
But when we say lowincome households or
middle income, do we want to put

536
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:10,560
my experience with survey takers is they
need all the breadcrumbs

537
00:47:07,599 --> 00:47:15,040
possible to guide them to the right
category.

538
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:19,440
» Leave it up to assumptions,
>> what one person considers middle income,

539
00:47:17,359 --> 00:47:21,839
» then you you're going to end up with a
lot more categories.

540
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:26,240
» Well, no, you just put in parentheses
senior citizens 16 and above or 65,

541
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:30,800
whatever you I mean, I don't know. Or
does it not matter? I don't

542
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:33,440
» I think for what we're using it for here
>> I might be getting too I want scientific

543
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,560
data. [laughter]
>> I understand I understand

544
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:40,079
» it's good to have one of you in the
group. I understand it's they're they're

545
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:41,920
valid things.
>> I mean that's just something to think

546
00:47:41,119 --> 00:47:44,800
about.
>> Sometimes if you give people too much it

547
00:47:44,079 --> 00:47:49,520
confuses
>> they're guard rails to keep them

548
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:53,040
in their mind going. Okay. Question six.
Is that referring to current housing

549
00:47:51,359 --> 00:47:58,240
stock
or just what you It says um you know if

550
00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:00,960
you were to relocate within the township
is the housing type you're seeking

551
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,440
available.
>> Could it be available or is it available

552
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,560
now?
>> Is it available?

553
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:10,240
» Is it like a snapshot right now?
>> So we're talking about current housing.

554
00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:14,160
» Yeah. We're trying to understand, you
know, it seems to be like there's a

555
00:48:11,839 --> 00:48:19,520
housing issue, right? That's the general
take. This is a one way to get uh a

556
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:23,920
wider swath on that take. And if there
is, perhaps the master plan should

557
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:29,359
address housing in a greater more
specific capacity or or not.

558
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:32,480
» But then that's where, you know, we
we're asking these questions in this

559
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,920
survey, but then our workshops, one of
them is going to be housing and we bring

560
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:40,079
the community and we're getting more
details there, too.

561
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:45,000
» I would probably add, is the housing
that you would be seeking currently

562
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,000
available?

563
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:53,680
By adding currently, you're saying now?
If can you go on to Zillow and see the

564
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:56,640
house you want currently is good now
>> because when I read it I was like well I

565
00:48:54,880 --> 00:49:00,119
mean it could be available.
>> I see what you're saying.

566
00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:03,440
» It's the wording. It's the wording in
it.

567
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:09,040
» Yep.
>> Uh seven I have a couple of additions

568
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:11,920
here where we say not too far from the
city of Grand Rapids.

569
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:16,559
» I'm wondering if that should say
proximity to the city of Grand Rapids.

570
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:20,960
Same thing with proximity to Zealand and
Holland. I know we used that word

571
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:25,960
proximity three times in a row, but
I thought not too far from the city of

572
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,960
Grand Rapids.

573
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:33,760
» Casual. That's just my
>> I like using proximity.

574
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:38,240
» I'm both.
>> I mean, that's one of the reasons I love

575
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:43,040
where I live because I can go to Grand
Rapid in 25 minutes. I can be in Grand

576
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:48,319
Rapids, Grand Haven, Holland. So, I can
be anywhere, you know. Well, that also

577
00:49:45,359 --> 00:49:52,960
brings up, do we want to add a box for
access to healthcare because a hospital

578
00:49:51,359 --> 00:49:57,680
right there and then everything going up
right by Taco Bell.

579
00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:03,119
» I think that's a valid thing to be
asking or asking people to get feedback

580
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:08,000
on, especially since access to health
care in a rural community or not major

581
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:15,680
metropolitan areas is something that is
a growing concern. Another category I

582
00:50:11,839 --> 00:50:19,760
would consider is um about my friends
and family live here.

583
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:25,599
I don't know if that falls underneath
the people and sense of community.

584
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:28,880
» That is generally like yes, that is
generally how you would refer to it

585
00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:32,160
because the opposite is is what if you
were to keep that one but remove the

586
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:35,440
other one? I like to me they're the
same. You know, I don't care which way

587
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:40,000
it's worded. It doesn't make a
difference to me, but to me they would

588
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:44,319
be the same thing. We want to add a low
property tax or a property, you know,

589
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:48,880
current property tax level to see is
this a traction that property

590
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:52,599
» everyone has a different idea of what's
low, medium, and high.

591
00:50:55,520 --> 00:51:01,280
» What are other really getting in detail
bushes a little bit?

592
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:04,800
» Well, I think you should add at least
the access to healthare. I I strongly

593
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:08,400
agree with that as well.
>> Yeah. Healthcare I I like.

594
00:51:06,559 --> 00:51:10,559
» And I like changing both of those other
ones to proximity too.

595
00:51:09,839 --> 00:51:14,800
» Yep.
>> Yep.

596
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:18,400
» Everybody okay with that? Following
along? Yep. Okay.

597
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:20,800
» Question nine. A couple pages.
>> Oh, let's go to eight a minute.

598
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:25,960
» Okay.
>> Any any questions on eight?

599
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,839
I just like that there's an unsure
option on that one because I'm sure

600
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:49,280
there's some people that really don't
have much of an opinion or don't know

601
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:52,240
much about it and sometimes if you don't
include that they'll just mark one just

602
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:57,200
to mark one
>> right unsure is good

603
00:51:53,520 --> 00:52:03,599
» might not really be how they deal.
>> Before we move on, if if I can just Hey,

604
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:08,480
Madam Chair, um is there any questions
that the planning commission has on this

605
00:52:05,599 --> 00:52:15,160
issue of farmland preservation? Isbody
familiar with, you know, what it means

606
00:52:10,559 --> 00:52:15,160
to have purchase of development rights?

607
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:29,520
» Yep. We're ready for nine.
That third option, protecting existing

608
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:32,480
views. I have no idea what that means.
>> See, that's where

609
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:36,319
» views. View sheds. So,
>> she used to she had view sheds there and

610
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:38,559
then at at our committee meeting, I'm
like, what's a view shed?

611
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,640
» Oh, yeah. So,
>> it's the views

612
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:44,319
» sometimes. Many times
>> at my house, I've got beautiful sunset

613
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,599
and sunrise views.
>> And I wouldn't want that changed. I

614
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:52,800
don't want a building going up out in my
backyard because I like to look out and

615
00:52:49,599 --> 00:52:57,200
see the see the cows or see see the um
see the beautiful rolling hills or I

616
00:52:54,720 --> 00:53:02,000
like to, you know, look out and and see
um you know, the es and flows of the

617
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:06,880
wetland, you know. So, it's very squishy
and soft and and and you know, but the

618
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:10,800
idea is is a lot of times it's
addressing it's a way to address the one

619
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:13,839
of the ways that when people say they
don't like change or they don't want

620
00:53:12,079 --> 00:53:17,520
change, it's because it's like when they
when they're at their house, they look

621
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:23,440
around and they like the way it looks,
whatever that means. It is very

622
00:53:19,599 --> 00:53:28,640
subjective, but it is um usually a not
uncommon

623
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:33,680
um sort of underlying concern to pushing
back against, you know, various kinds of

624
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:36,640
development um or or change, you know,
we could including redevelopment, right?

625
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:42,319
not so much here in Zealand Charter
Township, but that's um it is soft and

626
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:47,920
squishy, but it's that way um on purpose
related to the way that uh as planners

627
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:51,760
we tend to get information or responses
from people.

628
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:58,960
» It's often times used practically. It's
oftentimes used to protect views of the

629
00:53:55,839 --> 00:54:06,720
water. It's probably where the vast
majority of you shed protection comes in

630
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:11,760
and it can be legally enforcable.
So there are some properties, they're

631
00:54:09,119 --> 00:54:17,839
not in Zeland Township, but in the area
where if you look through the deed, you

632
00:54:14,079 --> 00:54:22,079
will see you will see restrictions
of what can be built in front of the

633
00:54:20,079 --> 00:54:27,040
house and and those are essentially
viewhed protections. And so that's

634
00:54:25,359 --> 00:54:33,920
traditionally that's where it's used.
I've I've I've never seen um any kind of

635
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:38,640
enforcable action on anything other than
water. I don't I've generally

636
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:41,680
» I've never seen anything enforceable on
like farming or

637
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:46,640
» No, but a lot of people like this
question a lot of times gets at being

638
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:52,079
able to preserve the agrarian landscape,
>> but you I mean it's it's a soft squishy,

639
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:55,440
right? You can't do much about it, but
it does let it does give that space for

640
00:54:53,839 --> 00:54:58,640
people. Oh yeah, that is what I like. I
don't want it to change. And then

641
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:02,400
however you however that then informs
what we do later with it is a whole

642
00:55:00,319 --> 00:55:05,599
different thing. But it is it can be
useful.

643
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:07,520
» Is this part of the is that going to be
the survey taker going to see this

644
00:55:07,119 --> 00:55:09,680
language?
>> Yep. They're going to see everything

645
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:14,400
that's on here.
>> Okay. So that language when I got to

646
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:17,839
that question had two possible
>> Yeah. Yeah, in my mind was one it was

647
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:21,040
about
>> I I don't want a big building in front

648
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:25,920
of my sunset.
>> The other one was more social views.

649
00:55:24,559 --> 00:55:28,880
We're conservative.
>> Ah, so it could be we should be able to

650
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:32,559
use the word physical
>> policies and stuff. So now my mind was

651
00:55:31,359 --> 00:55:37,280
split. Okay. Are we talking?
>> So these are physical views, not social.

652
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:39,920
» We say landscape views
>> or just

653
00:55:37,839 --> 00:55:44,319
» Yeah. I So I do appreciate that
especially given like the nature of of

654
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:50,880
community here. So I would think
protecting existing uh landscape views

655
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:54,559
would be um would be a good smart
>> when I read that you know it's saying up

656
00:55:52,319 --> 00:55:58,599
here programs policies activities
investments to attract business

657
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:04,799
» area that we like this [snorts] protect
that or are we talking about

658
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:07,119
» we're not getting the politics of that
kind of politics we're getting into land

659
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:10,319
use politics.
>> Well then that kind of builds on

660
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:17,200
question four
>> encourage green infrastructure for storm

661
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:21,359
water. I did a study on storm water.
>> My survey takers did not like the word

662
00:56:19,599 --> 00:56:24,000
green.
>> I had to change to sustainable.

663
00:56:23,599 --> 00:56:26,559
» Sure.
>> Green.

664
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:30,160
» Agree.
>> A bias built in.

665
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:33,440
» So I removed everything green.
>> Sustainable.

666
00:56:31,119 --> 00:56:40,280
» Some Yeah. Just encourage sustainable
infrastructure for storm water projects.

667
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:40,280
Put green in there. And

668
00:56:42,079 --> 00:56:47,839
» as you keep going down there, housing
choices that meet different needs. What

669
00:56:45,839 --> 00:56:51,520
is that?
>> So again, it's subjective. Like do you

670
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:56,720
feel like, right, this is the survey
taker. Do you feel like if people have

671
00:56:54,240 --> 00:57:01,040
different needs that their housing is
met? So for example, maybe you know that

672
00:56:59,119 --> 00:57:05,920
you're um you know, maybe you're you're
a recent or not so recent empty neester.

673
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:11,280
And I'm making some assumptions here,
right? this all kind of assumptions

674
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:15,200
and you're um you know you're young your
son married a daughter and they've got

675
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:19,119
you know one on the way and they can't
afford housing right and then but you

676
00:57:17,119 --> 00:57:24,160
also know your neighbors down the street
would love to move out of their house

677
00:57:20,799 --> 00:57:27,839
but there's no um more dense uh senior
living options available or the person

678
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:31,680
that you go to church with they're new
in the community they're still commuting

679
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:35,920
from Moskegan because they can't they
want an apartment but there's no

680
00:57:33,119 --> 00:57:40,240
apartment here so it's just the idea of
of all the people, you know, is there

681
00:57:38,319 --> 00:57:43,359
different types of needs that they have
and are they unmet? Um

682
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:46,400
» how important it is.
>> Yeah. And and I will also say like you

683
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:52,480
could say, well, we've already kind of
addressed that in previous questions.

684
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:56,400
Sure. So, it's just um different pla
different places and different ways in

685
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:59,400
the survey to answer different things.
So,

686
00:58:02,559 --> 00:58:10,880
» I think question nine has an awful lot
of

687
00:58:07,359 --> 00:58:17,400
» to read and to click
>> supporting the development of an ADA

688
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:17,400
accessible playground.

689
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:28,400
Like the idea of asking if
we if we need playgrounds

690
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:31,920
All playgrounds
if if we build one, aren't they all

691
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:34,559
required to be ADA?
>> No.

692
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:39,359
» They have to be.
>> No, no, no. They they are not required

693
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:45,359
to be. Um there was a steering committee
member who was very passionate about um

694
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:50,319
like incre increasing ADA accessible
play spaces for young folks. Um, and so

695
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:54,160
that was that was that why that was on
there

696
00:58:52,319 --> 00:58:57,799
» because one of my other additions to
question 10 was

697
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:03,839
I was thinking more playgrounds. I don't
want to make a redundant question that's

698
00:59:01,599 --> 00:59:07,319
already if you're making an ADA
accessible playground

699
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:15,200
like I want to ask the community do you
think we need more playgrounds? Not that

700
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:19,359
we have any place to put them but
>> we can ask both. both are valid

701
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:24,400
questions because they're different
they're they're different pieces of

702
00:59:21,119 --> 00:59:28,000
information. Um again this was a c you
know sometimes what happens when you

703
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:34,000
make a survey you have like and you're
editing it uh this was there like at a a

704
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:37,359
previous iteration and maybe like you
know it's the second pair of eyes the

705
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:41,760
fourth pair of eyes that read it there's
other questions that you raised. So um

706
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:46,799
again it was put in there because it was
a very passion important thing to one of

707
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:49,359
the steering committee members um and it
is important to ask about that um in

708
00:59:48,799 --> 00:59:54,480
some sense.
>> No it is if I I I was under the

709
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:58,160
assumption that if
built the playground it does not have to

710
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:02,160
be I didn't know that. So then that
makes that question necessary

711
01:00:00,799 --> 01:00:06,799
» just whether or not we want to add a
playground question. I don't think it'd

712
01:00:04,079 --> 01:00:12,319
be out of place in question 10
>> question 10 I could put add playground

713
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:17,599
or recre playground
>> I already recreation area

714
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:20,880
» I already have that we got 10 parks
trails recreation playgrounds

715
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:25,280
» um
>> mall and and tennis and

716
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:29,119
» so so I will also say there is a lovely
thing called the parks and recreation

717
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:32,240
plan and that gets like that gets very
much into park and recreation planning

718
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:39,680
and let's just because I think my
understanding is the Zealand Recreation

719
01:00:34,559 --> 01:00:42,319
Authority exists and there is a um that
plan

720
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:46,720
» it's a separate plan and you guys are
covered under it for whatever that means

721
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:50,079
to you. However, um if the township
wants to do its own, you can do that.

722
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:55,520
There's a whole different program. You
do it at a certain time in a certain

723
01:00:51,599 --> 01:01:00,160
way. it sets yourself up for DNR um um
trust fund DNR grants and like you know

724
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:05,359
and so one of the outcomes of this
process might be um we want to do a park

725
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:09,440
and wreck plan in the future but I would
I would because you people only have so

726
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:14,079
much time and space and that's like its
whole own effort I would sort of say

727
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:19,040
let's focus at a high level the park and
recreation questions you know sprinkle

728
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:21,920
in three or less and then you know if
it's if you get some uptake on that well

729
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,960
again we'll
um put that so I like I would take note

730
01:01:23,839 --> 01:01:28,000
of that and we'd put that in the
implementation chapter and just a little

731
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:32,880
bit of a spoiler alert that
implementation chapter is like the um

732
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:36,559
to-do list for the township over the
next 5 to 10 years it's like a

733
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:39,359
breadcrumb trail so like you know three
years from now when this is all done

734
01:01:37,839 --> 01:01:43,440
you're like what are we supposed to do
what did the community say so like and

735
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:47,280
that's down the road so I just want to
say good ideas but let's not focus and

736
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:52,640
get in the weeds on that particular
topic in the master plan survey

737
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:56,319
Okay. And we have a whole bunch of the
solar wind.

738
01:01:54,160 --> 01:02:01,480
» Do we need anything about the P is the
power plant in our town off of

739
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:10,079
» No. Okay. No, never mind.
>> So, so quick quick question if I can

740
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:14,400
back to this ADA accessible playground.
It sounds like you guys want to maybe

741
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:18,880
sort of move that to question 10. Can I
suggest that we move the ADA like the

742
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:24,960
the park and wreck general question and
the ADA park and rec uh question into

743
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:30,160
question 10? I think that's a great idea
because you know what if we put in there

744
01:02:27,599 --> 01:02:36,000
like more you know playground park and
recreation like that and people identify

745
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:43,599
if they do identify that that will give
us a pulse of whether we pursue that

746
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:48,319
park and recreation
um separate plan thing in the future.

747
01:02:46,559 --> 01:02:51,760
It'll help give the pulse
>> that that that's what it seems like it

748
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:54,720
sort of has moved to make sense.
>> What do you think?

749
01:02:53,119 --> 01:02:59,240
Yeah,
>> Scott looks like he wants to say

750
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,240
something.

751
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:11,200
» It it it like otherwise it looks a
little like disjointed because then you

752
01:03:09,599 --> 01:03:16,240
might be oh well this and then like well
it's over here and it if you if you can

753
01:03:13,359 --> 01:03:20,880
put like things together um it you know
looks a little more organized. helps

754
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:25,680
your survey thinker taker think kind of
you know more more logically.

755
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:31,440
» As a suggestion,
Mr. Chair, may I as a suggestion, I

756
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:36,240
would um regardless of what feedback you
get on the

757
01:03:33,599 --> 01:03:41,039
playground stuff, I would put in as the
imple

758
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:45,079
desire to have the
parks and wreck mass.

759
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:54,480
It's important for, you know, somebody
who's, you know, probably upwards of $3

760
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:59,839
million now in terms of great.
It's important to have that document and

761
01:03:57,119 --> 01:04:05,680
go through that planning process with
respect to not only just the grants but

762
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:08,720
also just whatever
>> just that our plates are full. I think

763
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:12,960
after we get through this
>> No, no, no. It's not a now thing, right?

764
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:16,480
» But it's definitely an implementation
thing that

765
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:19,359
» the future implementation. I agree.
>> That's why we put it in the

766
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:25,039
implementation chapter so you don't
forget it. But it's it's over there.

767
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:30,799
» Okay. So, is everybody okay with me
moving those two items to number 10?

768
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:34,240
» So, we're moving the development of the
trails and to

769
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:38,000
» trails and the ADA.
>> Yep.

770
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:43,160
» Yeah. Cuz I had that and for question 10
was parks, trails, recreation, uh

771
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:43,160
playgrounds.

772
01:04:49,039 --> 01:04:56,760
» So, we're Are we okay with nine? And now
we're going to go move to 10.

773
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:04,555
Any questions on 10?
>> Um I

774
01:05:02,535 --> 01:05:04,555
[laughter]

775
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:09,839
it's depending on what data points
you're looking for. I think more

776
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:16,440
residential development should be
separated between single family

777
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:16,440
residential and multif family.

778
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:24,640
» A question I have back for you. I don't
disagree. However, with a general um

779
01:05:23,119 --> 01:05:29,599
survey taker, member of the general
public, um not thinking ill of them, but

780
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:32,240
because every community is different, do
you think that they will understand the

781
01:05:31,119 --> 01:05:36,160
difference?
>> Absolutely. I think so.

782
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:39,920
» Okay.
>> Oh, we do.

783
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:45,119
» I would want to know in question,
we already are we already asking them in

784
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:48,400
question four, what types of housing is
needed?

785
01:05:45,839 --> 01:05:51,680
» Yes. And we we're really getting into
the weeds there.

786
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:56,079
» You know, that's a good We may be able
to rem I mean,

787
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:59,760
» might be able to drop it out then. Yeah,
that's right. Good point. We're already

788
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:04,559
asking. I'm in four.
>> Well, yeah, this number four asks what

789
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:07,200
types.
>> This is just saying where.

790
01:06:06,799 --> 01:06:10,400
» Okay.
>> So, I think we still want it.

791
01:06:08,799 --> 01:06:12,799
» Yep, you're right. there.
>> But I don't know if we need to get in

792
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:18,799
the weeds there because we're kind of
getting in the weeds right here.

793
01:06:15,359 --> 01:06:24,079
» And we do ask people where they live in
that four, you know, section area from

794
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:28,640
the beginning.
>> You want to leave it more residential,

795
01:06:25,599 --> 01:06:32,640
that's fine. I
That's such a broad broad.

796
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:35,920
» It is. It is.
>> I also added if we want or had a

797
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:41,119
question, do we want to add anything
about civic institutions?

798
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:46,240
Do we need libraries more? What What's
the community thinking about that?

799
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:49,720
I don't know what Zealand Township needs
to add, but

800
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:56,400
» is that something that you guys have
been contemplating? Is that

801
01:06:55,440 --> 01:07:02,119
» okay,
>> somebody out there's thinking where, you

802
01:06:58,319 --> 01:07:02,119
know, Jamestown has

803
01:07:04,559 --> 01:07:08,760
» who knows what people think.

804
01:07:09,359 --> 01:07:14,359
Hudsonville, Jamestown.
>> Jamestown,

805
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:22,200
the city library.
>> City library.

806
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,200
» Yeah,

807
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:37,000
» that's all I have until question 12. So,
>> so set with 10, then we will move to 11.

808
01:07:45,119 --> 01:07:48,119
Okay.

809
01:07:49,039 --> 01:07:54,880
» So, the map is it refer helps you sort
of look when you're looking at um

810
01:07:53,599 --> 01:07:58,720
question 10,
>> it helps to kind of give people instead

811
01:07:56,960 --> 01:08:02,640
of you know everybody doesn't
necessarily have the same orientation or

812
01:08:01,039 --> 01:08:08,640
whatever. This gives you a grounding
point when you're taking the survey. um

813
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:11,640
in terms of sort of general general
areas.

814
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:18,719
So,
>> so if so online um it says a map of the

815
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:22,080
township is provided below this question
for your reference online it will be

816
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:23,759
below
>> right it's just

817
01:08:23,359 --> 01:08:28,080
» okay
>> it's just because of the limitations of

818
01:08:25,759 --> 01:08:30,719
the page size so that's how that will
work out thank you

819
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:35,199
» yeah you're welcome
>> that makes it more

820
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:39,319
» sure sure okay
let's go to 11.

821
01:08:42,239 --> 01:08:50,359
Get anything on 10? Right. I kind of
Yeah, 10. We're done. Okay. Now 11.

822
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:02,359
We got questions on 11.

823
01:09:03,679 --> 01:09:06,679
» 12.

824
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:12,960
I just thought maintenance of existing
streets slash

825
01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:16,279
reason I added that was because the
question above.

826
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:27,279
So um from a pragmatic implementation
standpoint many times the streetscapes

827
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:32,640
and I streetscapes is a little urban
right like I I realize that right um

828
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:37,279
some areas of the township are more
developed and some are less and

829
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:43,679
streetscape stuff generally is going to
be under the purview um the authority

830
01:09:40,159 --> 01:09:47,199
the maintenance of the township streets
um do you guys have any township owned

831
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:50,480
roads
>> all of them are owned by the

832
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:53,480
» everything is owned by the road
commission.

833
01:09:54,560 --> 01:10:01,360
» Some sometimes townships own a couple
roads or they have gra. A few if some

834
01:09:59,440 --> 01:10:05,760
have fallen through the cracks.
>> Sure. But that's why I'm asking. So it

835
01:10:03,440 --> 01:10:10,560
sounds like there's maybe a few if if
any. Okay. So yes, correct. That's

836
01:10:08,159 --> 01:10:14,239
right. So if people say maintenance of
existing streets, you know that you

837
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:18,000
can't do much about that and that will
fall back on the road commission. It

838
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:21,520
also gives people an outlet, right, to
say that. And again, sometimes these

839
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:25,679
surveys are about pe g giving people an
outlet, right? They just want to be

840
01:10:23,199 --> 01:10:30,640
heard. So that's why it's kind of framed
that way is because uh if people answer

841
01:10:28,239 --> 01:10:34,080
the streets, the township knows that's
the authority and the purview of the

842
01:10:32,239 --> 01:10:39,120
road commission. We can't do much about
that. Um if it's about streetscapes,

843
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:43,360
well, perhaps we should consider putting
together street design guidelines. Um

844
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:47,600
and those are things again that's on the
implementation chapter. That's something

845
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:51,199
that we can talk about later in this
planning process. What that is, what um

846
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:57,360
what that might be something you could
explore two to seven years from now in

847
01:10:54,560 --> 01:11:03,520
some areas like along um Chicago Drive
or right by the city. Um it's a more

848
01:11:00,719 --> 01:11:07,920
urban thing. It is it's a way to kind of
create a sense of identity or arrival.

849
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:12,719
It would not be a blanketed thing, but
it's just a piece of information on the

850
01:11:10,239 --> 01:11:17,760
survey that helps you explore if you
want to if the community would like

851
01:11:14,480 --> 01:11:22,480
support some of that in some areas. That
being said though, I mean that's just a

852
01:11:20,159 --> 01:11:24,640
response to the way that um those
answers were structured.

853
01:11:23,679 --> 01:11:31,360
» No, that's right.
>> So, but Christian actually that's not a

854
01:11:27,199 --> 01:11:35,199
bad because streets are the commission,
but what about the street lights? Yeah,

855
01:11:33,199 --> 01:11:38,560
it would be. Well, it kind of it sort of
depends.

856
01:11:35,679 --> 01:11:46,440
» Lights are generally um for the most
part that's not 100% accurate, but for

857
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:46,440
part street lights are owned by the

858
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:54,159
» but it's not like that everywhere
because I just went

859
01:11:51,679 --> 01:12:01,600
» No, it's very common for street lights
to be owned by the

860
01:11:58,159 --> 01:12:07,360
Holland. Those street lights are
some communities have elected to take

861
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:10,719
over ownership of street lights. There
is like that's a thing that that there's

862
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:14,320
a
>> like Zealand Township has taken over the

863
01:12:12,719 --> 01:12:20,640
ownership of the street light at the end
of Air Park Drive because when I became

864
01:12:17,679 --> 01:12:24,159
president of the HOA, no one owned it.
No one knew what to do with it.

865
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:28,960
» Some communities have done that for
throughout their entire community.

866
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:34,480
literally taken ownership of all of the
street lights and then that revenue

867
01:12:31,440 --> 01:12:42,840
comes to them. But then
issues of of repair. For the most part,

868
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:42,840
street lights are owned by the uh

869
01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:50,719
so if you want to like like re get into
the question of better street lighting

870
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:56,239
for whatever reason, you know, safety or
otherwise, I might suggest that we add

871
01:12:53,440 --> 01:13:00,560
its own separate like box maintain of
existing um street lights.

872
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:05,520
» I think we're BPW
in Prairie Winds. When our street lights

873
01:13:02,159 --> 01:13:09,040
go out, I call PB.
>> And it's all and it's all different.

874
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:12,360
Like on our street, we're actually Great
Lakes Energy.

875
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:17,679
» Depends on who your utility.
>> It's all over the place here.

876
01:13:15,679 --> 01:13:23,040
» I think the one thing that I would add
to question number 10 is um trees

877
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:28,719
» 10 or 12.
>> Uh oh, excuse me. Thank you. 12. um when

878
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:32,880
you're talking about street improvements
and if I'm thinking that you know the

879
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:37,040
community is looking at you know
corridor kind of improvements

880
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:42,640
» I I would think that most of that's
going to kind of generate to street

881
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:46,800
trees and plantings and
>> that's in part of the first question so

882
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:49,920
it could be its own
>> if you want to sort of draw specific

883
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:54,080
attention to it and just highlight
trees. Um,

884
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:58,000
» but isn't that what we do when we're um
approving a subdivision?

885
01:13:55,679 --> 01:14:02,880
» You may have you may So I I don't know
your zoning ordinance in and out, right?

886
01:14:00,239 --> 01:14:05,840
Um you you guys I would think know um
you know, some of you may know it better

887
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:09,679
than others, but perhaps you do have
stuff.

888
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:13,600
» Um you you maybe this would give you
purview to kind of start exploring

889
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:16,320
making some of it stronger if you wanted
to. I don't you know, again, I don't

890
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:22,000
can't speak to how good it is or not,
but you may have some of that in there.

891
01:14:18,239 --> 01:14:26,280
Um, so you know, again, like we could
strike some of this and it's just

892
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:30,880
» is the goal of this question. I mean,
the way it's phrased is, you know,

893
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:35,679
what's most important to people, not
necessarily who would you talk to about

894
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:38,560
making changes, right? So, we could even
if we don't have direct control over it,

895
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:39,679
if we understand it's important to the
residents,

896
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:45,880
» right?
>> We could always pass that feedback along

897
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:45,880
to whoever's in control of it.

898
01:14:53,600 --> 01:15:00,159
Yes, that is
>> more roundabouts.

899
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:04,800
So, we could we could Yes, there could
be something in there about um Oh, I'd

900
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:12,159
have to think about how to phrase it
correctly, but like um you know, reduce

901
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:16,239
traffic congestion or um or other kinds
of things like and and sometimes

902
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:20,159
congestion and street improvements sort
of goes it's in the line of safety.

903
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:23,199
Other times it's more about because you
reduce crashes and those kinds of

904
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:28,320
things. Other times it's no, you want
like you want less congestion. Um I I do

905
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:31,440
like to remind people that you are
traffic.

906
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:33,840
So
in the sense of

907
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:36,840
» I know but in the
>> correct

908
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:43,000
» sure sure

909
01:15:44,480 --> 01:15:52,480
» I have when I've tried to when I get off
the highway and I try to get over here

910
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:56,640
I'm I I am surprised at the number of
people leaving the lake shore to go out

911
01:15:54,159 --> 01:16:00,800
to the city. Um so I have experienced
that myself. So, two things I may be

912
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:05,440
hearing is add a add a box that sort of
addresses traffic congestion and then

913
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:09,760
are we also want to um add a box that
talks about u maintenance of existing

914
01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:15,640
street lights.
I'm seeing shakings of heads.

915
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:15,640
Okay.

916
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:32,880
Yeah. I don't know if it's I don't know
if I'd call it maintenance of existing

917
01:16:28,719 --> 01:16:34,960
street lights. Maybe it's also um
>> street lights. Yeah,

918
01:16:33,679 --> 01:16:37,199
» more street lights.
>> More street lights

919
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:39,520
» or just put,
>> you know,

920
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:43,920
» I I will word smmith it, but like it's
the issue of just like more street

921
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:47,719
lights rather than maintenance of it.
Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay.

922
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:56,880
» Uh reduce traffic congestion.
Was that green infrastruure?

923
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:58,960
» I already Yep. sustainable.
>> Sustainable.

924
01:16:57,520 --> 01:17:02,800
» No one will pick that with that word
there.

925
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:05,840
» Okay.
>> Um

926
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:11,400
Okay.
>> I think you may want to add just another

927
01:17:07,440 --> 01:17:11,400
the permable pavement.

928
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:22,480
» H yes green. Um,
>> say that again, Christian. just change

929
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:28,800
the examples under the
>> so the issue with sto bio well [snorts]

930
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:33,679
» I mean
it

931
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:37,280
» will people know bio swailes if they
don't know permeable pavement will they

932
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:44,159
know bioalailes in
>> they planted uh drainage strips

933
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:46,640
» much better straight plain language
>> what it is

934
01:17:45,440 --> 01:17:49,760
» planted what strips
>> planted drainage strips

935
01:17:56,239 --> 01:18:00,000
Huh?
>> We're not asking soil. We're not doing a

936
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:02,703
soil.
>> Right. [laughter]

937
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:10,199
» That was all my issues with 12.

938
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:15,960
» Anybody else have anything on 12?

939
01:18:19,199 --> 01:18:25,920
on to 13 which we're moving
>> 13 and 15

940
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:31,520
» 13 and 15 we're moving
>> but was there any question with 13 or 15

941
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:36,400
» we're okay with the question itself
we're just moving it

942
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:38,880
and number 14
>> I have at our

943
01:18:38,239 --> 01:18:42,320
» discrimination
>> committee committee meeting

944
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:46,800
» did I miss one go up to 75
>> yes so I believe I'm expling explain to

945
01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:50,800
these guys what I what I brought up in
the steering committee meeting. So,

946
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:55,840
we're it basically is a cut off at 65
plus. Well, there's a a lot of people

947
01:18:53,199 --> 01:18:59,840
between 65 and 75 that are still
extremely active and you're going to get

948
01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:04,719
different answers from the people that
are maybe 80 85, you know, as they more

949
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:10,239
toward they might go for more h housing
of of assisted living or this or that.

950
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:14,719
So, I suggested making a category 65 to
74 and then 75 plus and just adding one

951
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:15,760
more category. Sorry about that
oversight.

952
01:19:15,199 --> 01:19:20,594
» Wise.
>> That's okay.

953
01:19:18,239 --> 01:19:24,320
» I think I got all the rest of the edits.
[laughter]

954
01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:28,239
» That's why you read it what I provide
because you know I am human.

955
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:31,280
» Yeah. So we all are.
>> The only thing I had about the the

956
01:19:29,679 --> 01:19:35,440
demographic questions if you want to
know education and income

957
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:38,000
just because that's stuff I collect. So
it's just a bias.

958
01:19:36,400 --> 01:19:40,880
» We typically try to stay away from
income because that lets

959
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:45,679
» it's always my last question,
>> right? Um, and that doesn't really add

960
01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:50,080
any value to a master plan survey from,
you know, for because it's people who've

961
01:19:47,199 --> 01:19:54,320
taken it. We don't really care to get
into the business of how much money you

962
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:58,400
make in terms of what that answer means.
Usually planning commissions are like, I

963
01:19:56,159 --> 01:20:02,320
don't want to know. So, we don't want to
ask. Um, and then what was the other

964
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:08,320
one? The education. I mean, again,
that's kind of up to you guys. Um, you

965
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:13,840
know, we we we we serve we hope to our
target is the public and yeah, that's up

966
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:18,960
it's up to the planning commission bias
of wanting to know my survey.

967
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:20,320
» I can separate their answers by
different

968
01:20:19,440 --> 01:20:23,320
» Yeah.
>> Yep.

969
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:31,120
» Okay. Question. Do we want education on
there?

970
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:34,400
» No.
>> Guess I'm not sure how we would use

971
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:36,880
that. I understand what you're saying in
your surveys, but

972
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:38,880
» here I don't know. I guess I'm good
either way.

973
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:45,239
» I don't think there's any.
>> Okay.

974
01:20:41,679 --> 01:20:45,239
» Thanks for your criticality.

975
01:20:45,679 --> 01:20:51,640
» Patience.
>> Okay. Number 16.

976
01:20:52,800 --> 01:21:00,400
Does it matter how many people are in my
household?

977
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:03,360
So this like this this is a question
that you know communities sometimes

978
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:09,840
really love this question other
communities are like h so um this like

979
01:21:07,440 --> 01:21:14,800
if one person's taking the survey um
sometimes communities like to know like

980
01:21:12,159 --> 01:21:23,120
well how many people do you live with in
terms of um another kind of demographic

981
01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:29,920
question um you know uh and and like is
your if you're taking the survey is

982
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:35,840
someone else in aunt um
household doing so and then like just

983
01:21:32,239 --> 01:21:39,840
the size in terms of family.
>> I can't make a good argument as to why

984
01:21:37,440 --> 01:21:44,080
this is a great question. Some
communities just really like it.

985
01:21:42,480 --> 01:21:47,440
» You can kind of spin this into like
housing related information,

986
01:21:45,679 --> 01:21:52,719
» right? Because then you can see like the
size of families or okay, how what

987
01:21:50,239 --> 01:21:55,280
percentage of the population are are are
two right

988
01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:58,239
» people house two people living in a
house, you know? Let's just say the

989
01:21:56,639 --> 01:22:03,760
majority of your houses in or your
majority of your houses are single

990
01:21:59,920 --> 01:22:08,719
family houses are 25 um00 square feet,
right? Yes. 2500 square feet and a

991
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:12,560
majority of your township demographics.
Your survey taker is two people. You

992
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:16,480
know, there's probably a mismatch there
in terms of like, you know, housing size

993
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:21,440
or whatever. It it can just be another
data point. Um I I don't feel

994
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:25,760
particularly strongly either way about
this question. So, it's up to the

995
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:29,840
pleasure of the planning commission.
Ask number 17.

996
01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:33,040
What do you
>> It's about children,

997
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:38,400
» right? So, it's about if you know um
like if your um households have kids and

998
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:42,320
like if a lot of people who take the
survey have kids, that means that

999
01:22:40,159 --> 01:22:46,639
they're answering it in a way that is uh
probably related to looking more towards

1000
01:22:44,159 --> 01:22:50,199
the future or answering with younger
people in mind.

1001
01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:56,080
» I'm just looking at there's a lot of
questions here. What can we do?

1002
01:22:54,480 --> 01:23:00,239
» For sure. 100%. So, yeah, I mean, these
are okay ones to cut.

1003
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:05,520
» You know, some Yeah, I put this together
based on other communities similar to

1004
01:23:03,440 --> 01:23:10,080
yours and what questions they have
typically liked. Um, I would find these

1005
01:23:08,480 --> 01:23:14,560
ones to be less valuable. And if you're
trying to look cut a couple, I think

1006
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:16,960
these are ones are totally fine to cut.
>> I think some of those data is available

1007
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:21,600
in the census as well.
>> That is correct. Yes. And we have a

1008
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:26,000
whole chapter devoted to the census. So
you have some of your demographic of you

1009
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:31,159
have the demographic of the township.
This would just be more demographic of

1010
01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:31,159
your survey takers.

1011
01:23:31,440 --> 01:23:40,960
» Okay. So what is the planning
commission's census on? Do we want to

1012
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:45,040
keep 16 and 17 in?
>> Is that I would like to.

1013
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:48,480
» We need 18. We need
so 18 is helpful when you're looking at

1014
01:23:47,199 --> 01:23:53,679
again the housing needs of the
community. Um our understanding is

1015
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:58,800
generally very generally there are more
multi-generational households than there

1016
01:23:55,920 --> 01:24:02,800
were 20 30 40 years ago and that is
usually because of the cost of housing

1017
01:24:00,639 --> 01:24:08,480
has gone up. So whether it's younger
people starting out they can't afford a

1018
01:24:05,120 --> 01:24:12,639
house either to own or rent or um you
parents who are aging in place um they

1019
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:16,800
have certain needs that are being unmet
because of the residential developments

1020
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:21,840
are not available to them in proximity
to their community. So, that's what

1021
01:24:19,120 --> 01:24:26,080
that's there for. Um, some communities
again have found that question to be

1022
01:24:23,199 --> 01:24:29,440
extremely helpful and help inform what
their master plan might start to say

1023
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:34,960
about housing. But, if you guys are
already going to have a housing based

1024
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:38,400
workshop, you might be um, you know,
again, if you're looking for questions

1025
01:24:36,159 --> 01:24:42,400
to cut, you could say, "Well, we're
going to have that whole discussion at

1026
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:45,520
that housing workshop." Now, that means
are everyone who's going to take the

1027
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:50,320
survey going to attend the workshop? The
answer is going to be no. me, right? But

1028
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:54,400
that that's where that question comes
from.

1029
01:24:51,679 --> 01:25:00,000
» I'm just looking at it. If I was taking
the survey,

1030
01:24:56,800 --> 01:25:06,719
I would say, wonder what they want these
questions answered for. What's the

1031
01:25:02,480 --> 01:25:12,719
motive behind it? So, I kind of question
that's just me thinking,

1032
01:25:10,639 --> 01:25:17,440
I got too many people in my household.
They're gonna raise my taxes because

1033
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:20,800
they got, you know, I I just I'm
concerned on

1034
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:26,480
» But they don't put their address.
>> They don't. They don't. But I just kind

1035
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:31,600
of, you know, are these things that we
really need to

1036
01:25:28,719 --> 01:25:36,400
» and I'm okay with it. I'm just asking
I'm being devil's advocate here. Just

1037
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:41,360
kind of saying, is it really what we
want? when I'm look when I look at at

1038
01:25:38,239 --> 01:25:45,199
these questions I the way I look at it
because I I used to be in uh quality

1039
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:50,159
assurance
>> again statistics and you know doing

1040
01:25:48,480 --> 01:25:55,199
everything and and this type of
information I I think could help us shed

1041
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:58,320
light on
>> what are the needs for our we got a lot

1042
01:25:57,120 --> 01:26:03,600
of people that
>> you know what if what if 60% of our

1043
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:07,120
households have kids under 18. That's an
that's a kind of a vision to the future

1044
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:10,880
of what could happen,
>> right? And that would go back to some

1045
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:16,080
» years, right?
>> And to see just where that is. Same

1046
01:26:14,239 --> 01:26:21,920
thing with I mean that's that's my
opinion that I think this we could use

1047
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:26,800
this information to look at future for
the housing. And yes, we're gonna have a

1048
01:26:24,480 --> 01:26:30,560
housing workshop, but we're not going to
have as many people at a housing

1049
01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:34,000
workshop that we're going to have that
are going to take

1050
01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:40,480
» hopefully
hopefully more

1051
01:26:35,440 --> 01:26:43,360
» if they don't um finish this.
Not like one of those that pop up saying

1052
01:26:42,639 --> 01:26:46,080
you didn't.
>> No, no, no.

1053
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:49,040
» They can leave things open.
>> They can leave it blank.

1054
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:58,159
» People cannot answer they can answer one
question, right? Um so when we complete

1055
01:26:51,920 --> 01:27:03,040
the um summary of the results we show um
>> could we add to these three questions to

1056
01:27:00,800 --> 01:27:08,080
make people feel comfortable
I'd rather not answer

1057
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:14,400
to
>> or just if if if there's a concern that

1058
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:17,120
people may feel uncomfortable
>> then they'll just leave it blank

1059
01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:21,199
» then they would leave it blank right
>> yeah they'll leave it blank

1060
01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:24,880
» I was going to say is is like so we we
we you know penel provided like the you

1061
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:33,440
know what people took but it's like so
in question 17 um of the 500 survey

1062
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:38,480
takers 489 took this one uh 460 took
this one 500 took this one so you'll see

1063
01:27:36,239 --> 01:27:42,239
a people skip a few questions along the
way um

1064
01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:45,199
» so you know you can take that in with
your you know your piece of information

1065
01:27:43,679 --> 01:27:49,840
and usually the questions towards the
end of the survey if your population is

1066
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:53,760
not so you get the survey fatigue.
You'll see the questions drop up at the

1067
01:27:51,679 --> 01:27:57,040
end. Um, that's why you try to put the
other ones towards the front. So,

1068
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:59,040
» and these are easy questions,
>> right?

1069
01:27:57,280 --> 01:28:02,239
» Yeah, they're they're not that. Oh my
gosh, I got to think about this.

1070
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:05,520
» I was just thinking the same thing on
those. If we're looking at shortening

1071
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:08,880
the overall survey, you probably don't
cut these questions. You probably look

1072
01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:12,080
at some of the ones that take more time.
So, and I think I'd rather have a

1073
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:15,600
general note maybe at the beginning that
says you can answer as many or as few of

1074
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:18,560
these questions as you want. I don't
know if that's maybe you don't want

1075
01:28:17,360 --> 01:28:20,400
that. Maybe you want them to try to
answer.

1076
01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:25,280
» I would Yeah. I say if we're going to do
a survey, they'll decide if they get

1077
01:28:22,159 --> 01:28:30,480
tired or if the baby cries or whatever,
right? Um they'll

1078
01:28:28,639 --> 01:28:35,520
» Yeah, that's right. That's right. I will
remind you guys at the very beginning it

1079
01:28:32,159 --> 01:28:39,199
does say anonymously, right? So, um I do
understand some people may may get

1080
01:28:37,440 --> 01:28:42,080
their, you know, um a little suspicious
at the end or whatnot. And that's and

1081
01:28:40,719 --> 01:28:46,000
that's fine, right? People, that's you
cannot control people's thoughts. That's

1082
01:28:43,920 --> 01:28:50,639
natural. No problem. But it does
explicitly state it is anonymous and we

1083
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:55,760
won't know unless they write in the
comments, you know, Linda Walker at 123

1084
01:28:53,440 --> 01:28:59,600
Smith Avenue and I So every once in a
while you do get that and I will also

1085
01:28:57,440 --> 01:29:03,840
say um just a little bit sort of peak to
the future on the community survey

1086
01:29:01,679 --> 01:29:10,239
results uh with the comments that you
get, we will give all 50 or 500 to you.

1087
01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:15,840
We um if there are uh curse words un
comments unbecoming that are like really

1088
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:20,639
bad uh I will talk with Howard we may
provide an unredacted version and a

1089
01:29:18,159 --> 01:29:24,800
redacted version because uh we don't
want comments that are slanderous

1090
01:29:23,280 --> 01:29:30,080
unnecessarily
um or you know if people just kind of go

1091
01:29:26,719 --> 01:29:35,120
off on a rant um and so we typically
allow things in that maybe have a less

1092
01:29:32,480 --> 01:29:39,040
likely curse words there's rare if any
but to let people know like we said

1093
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:43,920
we're going to be transparent. What do
you know? We are. So, um just to kind of

1094
01:29:42,400 --> 01:29:48,000
let you guys know too again, we might
like if we have to update a you know um

1095
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:52,080
do a grammar thing because it's a whole
paragraphs a run on sentence or

1096
01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:55,600
something but um so just to kind of a
little bit of a peak of to how we handle

1097
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:59,520
things and that's I will also say the
last question is what are your comments?

1098
01:29:57,679 --> 01:30:06,600
What are your thoughts? And people will
tell us and then you will have them. So

1099
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:06,600
um for better or for worse.

1100
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:15,760
» Okay, we have gone through it.
Now that we do we have any questions,

1101
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:21,199
concerns? Are we okay with all the
different

1102
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:25,600
» a couple just
stupid? Well, not question.

1103
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:30,679
» No questions. Stupid.
>> Um on the map that shows Beverly

1104
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:39,280
circles, which I don't
>> tell me how you want it.

1105
01:30:37,600 --> 01:30:46,480
» Well, I don't care about that. But in
our mixed use development thing, um

1106
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:50,920
there it specifically talks about one
quarter mile from the centers of

1107
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:50,920
Beverly.

1108
01:30:52,159 --> 01:31:00,960
Well, if they see this,
I mean, and I don't know that this

1109
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:05,920
outside
>> in this questionnaire, but

1110
01:31:03,679 --> 01:31:14,199
» um
up before is how far out does this mixed

1111
01:31:09,199 --> 01:31:14,199
use village go? Um

1112
01:31:18,480 --> 01:31:25,679
» so, a couple comments on that then. So,
one we can um I'm pretty sure because

1113
01:31:22,880 --> 01:31:29,120
this is made in GIS, we can go out a
quarter mile quarter mile, right?

1114
01:31:27,760 --> 01:31:33,120
Quarter mile from the center. Like we
can we can we can you know we can do

1115
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:36,639
that. We can math it if you will and
change that so it's actually more

1116
01:31:34,719 --> 01:31:40,960
accurate. Um the other thing I'll say
like this is a survey. It's not a zoning

1117
01:31:39,440 --> 01:31:45,679
tool. But I mean
>> I don't and like I said I don't care if

1118
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:50,719
if this is only used in this
>> it is it's only used in the survey

1119
01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:56,400
» to someday go out
right here and that this ends up

1120
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:59,360
» but it would it just be better to go and
change it to a quarter mile from the

1121
01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:03,760
center. Was it quarter mile from the
intersection?

1122
01:32:00,639 --> 01:32:06,880
» Say quarter mile from the center, right?
>> Would you rather see it as a circle

1123
01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:11,040
rather than the
>> Well, it would typically a circle.

1124
01:32:10,080 --> 01:32:16,440
» Yeah,
>> sure.

1125
01:32:13,199 --> 01:32:16,440
» Is that

1126
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:24,560
Tim if I so is that for Beaverdam,
Raiseland and Drenth in terms of the

1127
01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:25,360
quarter mile
>> correct?

1128
01:32:24,960 --> 01:32:29,600
» Okay,
>> that is what

1129
01:32:27,360 --> 01:32:33,360
» the mixed used village part of our
ordinance had.

1130
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:41,880
» Yeah, thank you.
>> Um and the other part isn't really a

1131
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:41,880
question. Well, it's a question.

1132
01:32:42,239 --> 01:32:50,760
Our residential district and the mixed
use do have bed and breakfast listed as

1133
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:50,760
a use

1134
01:32:51,360 --> 01:33:00,520
» is that different bed and breakfast
under the law is very different from

1135
01:32:55,280 --> 01:33:00,520
short-term rentals. Very different.

1136
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:13,120
» Cool.
>> Anybody else have any questions,

1137
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:15,520
concerns, changes, additions?
I'd just like to say thanks for putting

1138
01:33:14,480 --> 01:33:19,280
this together because it's so much
easier for us to look at something and

1139
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:23,040
then ask questions about it versus
having us come up with questions.

1140
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:28,560
» Yeah, no problem. I mean that's that's
what you've hired us to do. So um I'm

1141
01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:32,320
you know I'm glad that you uh received
it well and I mean that's that's what

1142
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:39,280
we'll be doing for you guys. So yeah,
>> thank everybody for their feedback too.

1143
01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:42,000
It was really good feedback and um
thank you Tanya for putting that

1144
01:33:40,719 --> 01:33:48,719
together. Nice work.
>> So if I if I if I can madam chair. So um

1145
01:33:45,679 --> 01:33:53,440
I want to get some clarity from somebody
what the directive is. So I will be

1146
01:33:50,400 --> 01:34:00,080
making these edits. Um
and and and then what how?

1147
01:33:57,360 --> 01:34:07,440
» Yeah, I think go ahead and send that to
myself and um I think the chair. Um and

1148
01:34:03,679 --> 01:34:13,440
then we coordinate if there is another
round of edits necessary.

1149
01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:19,520
I ideally um madame chair if this is
something that that you and I uh and

1150
01:34:16,159 --> 01:34:23,840
Tanya can look at and sort of bless that
would be best because we're trying to

1151
01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:26,159
meet the deadline of getting it in for
the newsletter.

1152
01:34:24,719 --> 01:34:30,239
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. Because when does the newsletter

1153
01:34:28,400 --> 01:34:37,520
uh get out? Is that next week? The
newsletter needs to be out. Um, yeah, I

1154
01:34:34,400 --> 01:34:41,920
mean, it needs it needs to be well on
its way next week.

1155
01:34:40,480 --> 01:34:48,000
It's the end of the month is the
deadline, but but but we're in the

1156
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:52,639
process of designing it as we speak. And
so, you know, we really want to make

1157
01:34:50,480 --> 01:34:57,199
sure that we have that tool available
for the community. They, you know, we

1158
01:34:55,280 --> 01:35:01,040
can get the master plan survey out to
everybody.

1159
01:34:59,199 --> 01:35:04,480
And that saves us a few thousand dollars
to just do it.

1160
01:35:02,960 --> 01:35:06,639
» Someone's knocking. Someone's knocking
at the door.

1161
01:35:05,120 --> 01:35:10,000
» That's got to be Troy.
>> You had to step out for a minute.

1162
01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:13,280
» Who is it?
>> Yeah.

1163
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:16,080
» Oh.
>> So, can I get them to you by the end of

1164
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:19,600
the week?
>> Uh, yeah, that should be okay.

1165
01:35:18,400 --> 01:35:24,480
» Okay.
>> End of the week should be fine.

1166
01:35:22,080 --> 01:35:29,280
» Thank you. Um what what what I would say
is what would be more helpful is to get

1167
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:33,040
us a QR code
>> that's very easy

1168
01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:38,480
» and get us the language that you want
associated with the survey and the

1169
01:35:36,080 --> 01:35:42,639
master plan sort of you know something
like you know the township is

1170
01:35:41,280 --> 01:35:49,760
going through its master planning
process. We you know desire you know

1171
01:35:46,400 --> 01:35:55,360
significant community feedback you know
um you know have you know, a bunch of

1172
01:35:53,199 --> 01:36:00,560
community meetings and we're also doing
this survey. You know, here's the QR

1173
01:35:58,080 --> 01:36:06,800
code kind of thing. Get us that language
and then um and then the QR code uh and

1174
01:36:03,679 --> 01:36:09,920
then the actual survey then can wait a
little bit. Then you have a little bit

1175
01:36:08,560 --> 01:36:14,400
like extra time.
>> I can get you those things promptly. I

1176
01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:18,719
also know that um I will get the edits
to you because you will need to approve

1177
01:36:16,480 --> 01:36:23,040
the edits and whatnot. But yeah, right
that that is that sounds very um that

1178
01:36:21,679 --> 01:36:27,679
that helps. So,
>> but then if you had an edit at the very

1179
01:36:25,920 --> 01:36:33,920
end,
you could make that edit and the survey

1180
01:36:31,600 --> 01:36:38,560
QR code is already gone out.
>> Yep. Once the once people start taking

1181
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:47,119
the survey like when does the uh when
does the newsletter like go out?

1182
01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:52,239
End of the month. So, you know, we can
tweak the edits to the survey, but I um

1183
01:36:50,719 --> 01:36:56,480
it's always great to get something like
done and finalized and off your plate.

1184
01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:59,480
We're all thinking about it now. So, um
Okay.

1185
01:37:01,199 --> 01:37:09,400
» Okay. Carrie, is there anything else
that you want to add to this or are

1186
01:37:05,040 --> 01:37:09,400
you're all set with this too now?

1187
01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:16,080
» Thank you. I stepped out for a second.
Yes. So the big most important piece is

1188
01:37:14,239 --> 01:37:21,280
having the QR code and having that
language so we can get it in the in the

1189
01:37:18,719 --> 01:37:25,360
flyer for the print having the survey
and having if if if the planning

1190
01:37:23,520 --> 01:37:30,960
commission is comfortable with having a
hey we we've given our stamp of approval

1191
01:37:28,080 --> 01:37:35,040
on the survey contingent upon our chair
and our manager

1192
01:37:33,199 --> 01:37:38,639
reviewing it. I think that would be a
great step forward for moving forward

1193
01:37:36,880 --> 01:37:43,840
here. And then if any edits needs to be
done before the flyer goes live. Um,

1194
01:37:41,600 --> 01:37:48,000
again, I just want to say thank you for
your time looking at this. This is

1195
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:53,000
fantastic.
>> Yes.

1196
01:37:50,000 --> 01:37:53,000
Okay.

1197
01:37:53,280 --> 01:38:01,199
Okay. So, everybody's all set. We are
going to um give the approval on it once

1198
01:37:58,560 --> 01:38:07,280
we've got the edit done and then we will
get it ready for distribution through um

1199
01:38:05,040 --> 01:38:13,760
the newsletter.
Okay. Um just a quick comment. Um we are

1200
01:38:11,679 --> 01:38:18,880
handing out
um

1201
01:38:15,280 --> 01:38:24,159
this is Plymouth Township Council. Uh
this is forformational purposes only. We

1202
01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:30,880
will eventually
um be looking at this down the road, but

1203
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:35,360
we want to give you time to uh look at
it, study it,

1204
01:38:33,199 --> 01:38:44,000
ask questions eventually, write
questions down. um Linda Walker gave it

1205
01:38:39,760 --> 01:38:50,320
this to us so that we could um look at
it again. This is coming. It's not now.

1206
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:55,119
It's going to be in the future. But this
way it gives us time to study it.

1207
01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:58,400
» Something to Yeah. something that we
can,

1208
01:38:56,480 --> 01:39:04,000
» you know, because we're going to have to
address some data centers at some point.

1209
01:39:00,719 --> 01:39:08,719
And this will give us uh just a starting
point. just information. It we don't

1210
01:39:06,719 --> 01:39:15,440
have to use it. There's a there's
another one also um uh this was this

1211
01:39:12,560 --> 01:39:19,040
Plymouth Township one was a statement um
for a Danish data center application and

1212
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:25,119
demands that they made. This is what
they asked of that that application. And

1213
01:39:22,239 --> 01:39:30,080
the second one is a that uh Howard
graciously got ready to uh and if

1214
01:39:27,520 --> 01:39:36,719
anybody wants a PDF copy, I can email
that. But it's a um a working it's a

1215
01:39:35,199 --> 01:39:41,040
inworking
model ordinance for data centers. I

1216
01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:43,040
think it was for Howell Township.
>> Yeah.

1217
01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:45,920
» Yeah. For Howell Township that they're
working on

1218
01:39:44,159 --> 01:39:50,639
» that they actually put an advisory
committee together with their their

1219
01:39:48,639 --> 01:39:57,199
community with community members and
their their township board too. And

1220
01:39:54,080 --> 01:40:01,280
again, this is forformational purposes
um as we proceed.

1221
01:39:59,199 --> 01:40:07,320
» And again, hang on to it. It'll probably
be a couple months from now um that we

1222
01:40:04,159 --> 01:40:07,320
need it.

1223
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:12,360
» More of the how ones are coming.

1224
01:40:14,320 --> 01:40:18,840
» Thank you, Howard, for getting it for
us.

1225
01:40:21,199 --> 01:40:26,320
» Bringing it to our attention.
you for taking care of that. I

1226
01:40:25,040 --> 01:40:29,440
appreciate it. I think the more
knowledge we have the better going into

1227
01:40:28,960 --> 01:40:34,920
this
>> and this gives us time to study it to

1228
01:40:31,520 --> 01:40:34,920
look at it.

1229
01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:46,880
» Do we need more one?
>> We have Tanya. Did you get one?

1230
01:40:43,679 --> 01:40:49,440
» Tanya Tanya should have both of them.
>> Yeah, sure.

1231
01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:56,719
» Yeah, there's the there's one of them
there coming up. Give her that one.

1232
01:40:53,679 --> 01:40:58,800
There you go.
>> More extra.

1233
01:40:58,000 --> 01:41:01,199
» Hey, I've got a
>> desire to read it at night. We're

1234
01:41:00,239 --> 01:41:02,800
» good. We're okay.
>> Put you to sleep.

1235
01:41:02,159 --> 01:41:06,480
» Yep.
>> Tanya, did you get the other statement

1236
01:41:04,400 --> 01:41:12,320
one, too? Okay, you've got both of them.
Okay, everybody's got both of them now.

1237
01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:16,719
» Okay,
>> perfect. Thank you, Linda, for uh giving

1238
01:41:14,480 --> 01:41:23,199
this to us and Howard for stapling it
and printing it all off. So,

1239
01:41:19,760 --> 01:41:28,520
okay. Number nine on the agenda is
public comment. Do we have any public

1240
01:41:25,520 --> 01:41:28,520
comment?

1241
01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:38,159
Number 10, board member comments.
Anybody from the board planning

1242
01:41:34,320 --> 01:41:41,199
commission here want to have any com?
>> I got a quick update if you want to hear

1243
01:41:39,760 --> 01:41:42,159
what went on at the last uh board
meeting.

1244
01:41:41,600 --> 01:41:43,760
» Yes, I do.
>> Try to keep that real quick for

1245
01:41:43,360 --> 01:41:46,320
everybody.
>> Okay.

1246
01:41:44,159 --> 01:41:50,239
» Uh we approved uh some playground
equipment for the Drenth Grove uh

1247
01:41:47,840 --> 01:41:53,920
playground. So, uh, that's, you know,
it's got some, uh, some ADA components

1248
01:41:52,400 --> 01:41:57,199
to it. Try to make it accessible for
people. Uh, making sure that it matches,

1249
01:41:56,239 --> 01:42:00,719
you know, the rest of the equipment
that's already in from the design, uh,

1250
01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:04,400
drawings that we saw from Brian
Newuhoff. Looks like it's going to be

1251
01:42:02,080 --> 01:42:07,679
pretty cool. So, that was already in the
budget. It was actually less than what

1252
01:42:05,760 --> 01:42:12,080
was budgeted for that. Uh, so that
should be moving. Uh, we revised the

1253
01:42:10,239 --> 01:42:16,960
moratorium on the data center uh,
resolution. Now, involves energy

1254
01:42:13,840 --> 01:42:20,719
facilities along with data centers. Uh,
foyer policy. Just some clarification on

1255
01:42:19,040 --> 01:42:24,480
some of the things there. Uh making sure
that we were uh charging the appropriate

1256
01:42:22,880 --> 01:42:27,920
amount but also you know doing it the
most inexpensive way for the people uh

1257
01:42:26,560 --> 01:42:34,239
in the public who are requesting the
information. Project clarity some of you

1258
01:42:30,159 --> 01:42:37,360
may be familiar with it's uh the Ottawa
what the ODC acronym

1259
01:42:37,119 --> 01:42:43,360
» uh
>> outdoor discovery center. It's the the

1260
01:42:40,000 --> 01:42:50,800
project clarity came from uh a desire by
the folks around Lake Makatawa to have a

1261
01:42:47,280 --> 01:42:55,920
more clear water uh lake. Now,
ironically, you can't really get clear

1262
01:42:53,280 --> 01:43:01,360
water in Lake Makatawa because of the of
the bottom of what what is Lake

1263
01:42:58,400 --> 01:43:06,639
Makattow. Not because it's dirty, but
just because of the ecology of the lake.

1264
01:43:04,239 --> 01:43:12,719
But that's actually how Project Clarity
came about is clearing uh the water from

1265
01:43:10,880 --> 01:43:16,320
Lake Maktau.
>> Yep. And that's looking at the overall

1266
01:43:14,239 --> 01:43:20,639
Makatawa waterershed. So even though you
know we're Lake Makatawa is not in

1267
01:43:18,239 --> 01:43:24,480
Zealand Township, but phosphorus levels
from farms and from other areas here end

1268
01:43:22,960 --> 01:43:29,600
up in the runoff which all contributes
to the phosphorus level in Lake

1269
01:43:25,840 --> 01:43:34,239
Makatawa. So, we approved a $20,000 uh
donation to them for over the next five

1270
01:43:31,840 --> 01:43:39,119
years for a total of $100,000 to help
with that effort. And they've uh they've

1271
01:43:37,119 --> 01:43:42,159
been doing this for a while now. We
haven't contributed uh as a township in

1272
01:43:41,199 --> 01:43:46,480
the past. So, it seemed like a
worthwhile thing to to support. And part

1273
01:43:44,800 --> 01:43:50,880
of their efforts involve working with
local farmers and trying to provide ways

1274
01:43:48,880 --> 01:43:54,639
that they can do things that maybe help
contain the amount of phosphorus. uh

1275
01:43:53,040 --> 01:43:58,239
keeping it here in the farmland where it
does good, keeping it out of the lake

1276
01:43:55,840 --> 01:44:05,040
where it doesn't do so good.
>> And then we also looked at uh uh the

1277
01:44:01,600 --> 01:44:09,760
treasur. So, we did a uh had a change in
the way that we did things as far as the

1278
01:44:06,880 --> 01:44:14,000
treasurer and the finance director uh a
couple years ago. I think it was just

1279
01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:18,400
before I got elected. Um, they moved
from having the elected officials doing

1280
01:44:15,760 --> 01:44:21,920
a whole bunch of the actual work, uh, to
saying they're going to be figureheads,

1281
01:44:20,400 --> 01:44:26,560
not a great word for it, but more of a
figurehead type position and having the

1282
01:44:23,920 --> 01:44:31,360
hired township employees do more of the
operational, uh, duties. One of the

1283
01:44:28,960 --> 01:44:35,600
things that uh, changed there was the
capital improvement plan. Uh, used to be

1284
01:44:33,679 --> 01:44:40,719
that uh, the treasurer would be uh,
heavily involved in that as well as uh,

1285
01:44:38,080 --> 01:44:44,320
the manager. And what the previous folks
on the board wanted to do is say, well,

1286
01:44:42,719 --> 01:44:48,880
let's separate that. Let's have the
treasurer do just the treasurer stuff

1287
01:44:46,400 --> 01:44:56,639
and then we would have the uh the hired
superintendent uh now that we had one uh

1288
01:44:51,760 --> 01:45:00,159
do the capital improvement plan. And
in doing that, there were some things

1289
01:44:58,159 --> 01:45:04,400
that maybe the the CIP wasn't quite as
complete as before. Um and looking at,

1290
01:45:03,119 --> 01:45:08,320
you know, there's nothing in the statute
that says that has to be like a clean

1291
01:45:06,320 --> 01:45:12,480
line of separation. uh it's it's
perfectly fine to have the treasurer and

1292
01:45:10,080 --> 01:45:16,320
the superintendent collaborate on that
and uh because we have, you know, a lot

1293
01:45:14,639 --> 01:45:21,440
of experience, you know, it's there's
really no harm in having them work

1294
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:25,520
together. So, uh we put $4,000 that have
been removed from the treasurer's salary

1295
01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:28,159
back into that uh for the work that
she's done already. And then also, you

1296
01:45:27,040 --> 01:45:31,840
know, moving forward, she would
collaborate on those things. And I think

1297
01:45:30,159 --> 01:45:35,840
it's going to be an overall good thing.
I think the uh the folks that changed

1298
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:39,520
the structure took a stab at what it
would take. uh there's probably more

1299
01:45:37,679 --> 01:45:43,600
hours left for the elected officials
than what they estimated. So, this is a

1300
01:45:41,760 --> 01:45:46,560
move to kind of correct that. And then
as we go forward, you know, if we want

1301
01:45:44,880 --> 01:45:49,920
to transfer more of that to the the
hired officials of the township, that's

1302
01:45:48,480 --> 01:45:52,800
fine. We can do that. But we want to
make sure that we're not uh doing

1303
01:45:51,679 --> 01:45:56,239
something that's going to hurt the
quality of the documents or the

1304
01:45:54,159 --> 01:46:00,960
procedures uh just to try to get there
faster.

1305
01:45:58,880 --> 01:46:04,480
And then, uh the tax rates, uh we talked
about some possible millage reductions.

1306
01:46:02,560 --> 01:46:07,280
There was uh one of the mill reductions
we're going to go forward forward with.

1307
01:46:06,159 --> 01:46:11,520
There's another one we're going to wait
a little bit. Uh the approach in the

1308
01:46:09,600 --> 01:46:15,040
past has been to make uh some small
adjustments and try to be conservative.

1309
01:46:13,360 --> 01:46:20,000
And if we can give back more the next
time, then we can keep doing that. Uh

1310
01:46:17,520 --> 01:46:22,880
one of the things that uh that was
shared by the treasur is what we don't

1311
01:46:21,360 --> 01:46:26,480
want to do, especially for people with
mortgages, you know, that have an escrow

1312
01:46:24,400 --> 01:46:28,880
account. We don't want to reduce that.
So all a sudden they're saying, "Oh,

1313
01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:32,080
hey, I've got way more in my escro
account than I need." So they reduce it

1314
01:46:30,400 --> 01:46:35,280
and then a year later then you reduce
the millage or increase the millage or

1315
01:46:34,000 --> 01:46:38,719
change it to the point where now they
have to readjust that. So trying to make

1316
01:46:37,440 --> 01:46:43,280
those incremental changes, make sure
we're set up well for the future, but

1317
01:46:41,119 --> 01:46:48,400
also keep the tax as low as we can.
>> Does that show up on our assessments

1318
01:46:44,800 --> 01:46:54,840
then when we get our assessment?
That's an excellent question that I

1319
01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:54,840
don't know the answer to, but uh

1320
01:46:55,840 --> 01:47:04,360
» we won't see it till the winter tax.
>> That'd be your next tax bill, I would

1321
01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:04,360
assume. Yeah.

1322
01:47:05,440 --> 01:47:09,760
» Yeah. And if you got if you have any
want any more detailed information on

1323
01:47:08,239 --> 01:47:14,159
that, I'm sure Melissa can answer any of
those questions. Yeah.

1324
01:47:12,560 --> 01:47:18,320
» Good question.
>> And Denny, you had a question.

1325
01:47:16,080 --> 01:47:25,119
» Project clarity. Do you know much about
that deal? We were super involved with

1326
01:47:21,920 --> 01:47:28,639
that thing 10 years ago, 15 after 10
years about five years ago the thing

1327
01:47:27,040 --> 01:47:33,440
fizzled.
What is going on with it? We used to get

1328
01:47:30,960 --> 01:47:39,119
cost shares for cover crops. We used to
do all cover chop and they would cost

1329
01:47:35,920 --> 01:47:43,199
share this the cost of the plant and of
that and everything and then it fizzled

1330
01:47:41,119 --> 01:47:47,199
and nothing happened. We as farmers hear
nothing about project clarity anymore at

1331
01:47:45,360 --> 01:47:50,159
all. They didn't say at the time why it
ended

1332
01:47:48,239 --> 01:47:53,360
» there. Well, the funding was gone.
>> Okay.

1333
01:47:50,639 --> 01:47:59,520
» The fund Hayworth was a big pusher of
this. They gave a lot of money to

1334
01:47:56,000 --> 01:48:04,239
project clarity for cover crops
and I think Hworth stopped doing that

1335
01:48:02,000 --> 01:48:09,320
and now it on the farm level it's
fizzled to nothing. We hear nothing

1336
01:48:06,080 --> 01:48:09,320
about it.

1337
01:48:09,360 --> 01:48:20,080
» So I can answer half of that. Um I I
want to follow up with Travis to

1338
01:48:18,000 --> 01:48:25,920
understand why they're not continuously
doing cover crop. Um so I I want to look

1339
01:48:23,600 --> 01:48:31,040
into that in more depth. So I just you
know want to be clear that um this is

1340
01:48:28,560 --> 01:48:35,600
only kind of half an answer. But one of
the things that's happened with project

1341
01:48:32,480 --> 01:48:40,239
clarity is is there's really two stages
of project clarity. And the first stage

1342
01:48:38,159 --> 01:48:45,920
of project clarity you've really
completed. The first stage of project

1343
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:51,920
clarity was a collaboration
between um and and there were a number

1344
01:48:48,560 --> 01:48:57,440
of individuals around Lake Makatawa.
Hworth was one of them, Devoses, Van

1345
01:48:55,520 --> 01:49:03,600
Andandals, there are a number of big
names that provided some pretty sizable

1346
01:49:00,639 --> 01:49:08,239
contributions to project clarity.
Steve Boltis when he was at the MAC, uh

1347
01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:14,159
he was one of the first ones to go
around to the local communities and to

1348
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:20,000
essentially match uh some of the don
large donations that were given and that

1349
01:49:16,159 --> 01:49:28,880
there was um the local um or the the
municipalities uh uh in the area um

1350
01:49:24,400 --> 01:49:34,320
committed uh pretty sizable uh funding
for Project Clarity for the first phase.

1351
01:49:32,159 --> 01:49:41,920
And the first phase of project clarity
has really been mostly lowhanging fruit

1352
01:49:37,920 --> 01:49:50,719
BMPs. So things like cover crop things
uh like uh small projects that would you

1353
01:49:46,639 --> 01:49:56,719
know restore vegetated swailes or uh do
you know cleanup um things that will

1354
01:49:53,440 --> 01:50:02,639
have a an immediate impact on the
phosphorus load that exists in Lake

1355
01:49:59,199 --> 01:50:10,800
Makatawa. over the last I would say year
or two some of that has um uh kind of

1356
01:50:08,080 --> 01:50:18,719
con concluded because when we look at
the data the data is essentially showing

1357
01:50:13,760 --> 01:50:24,880
us that um we've we've gotten to a level
and now we're kind of stuck and the

1358
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:30,960
level that we've gotten to is now we
have to address the phosphorus condition

1359
01:50:28,239 --> 01:50:36,080
that is existing in Lake Makati and
continues be added to the water. And so

1360
01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:40,320
there has to be an engineered solution.
And so the things that you were talking

1361
01:50:37,840 --> 01:50:46,080
about which was the cover crop and the
things that were directly related to the

1362
01:50:42,159 --> 01:50:53,040
farmers much of those efforts have
concluded because as project clarity has

1363
01:50:49,360 --> 01:50:57,280
indicated they've they've um have
essentially communicated that you know

1364
01:50:54,960 --> 01:51:02,320
those they've done all those BMPs.
They've they've done all of those kind

1365
01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:09,440
of lowhanging fruit projects um that
kind of get you to a better phosphorus

1366
01:51:05,119 --> 01:51:15,360
condition and now the issue is one how
do we create more sustainable funding

1367
01:51:11,840 --> 01:51:22,719
model and two how much is it going to
cost and what is an engineered solution

1368
01:51:18,880 --> 01:51:27,920
look like for the rest of the phosphorus
load that exists in Lake Matala. So, I

1369
01:51:25,840 --> 01:51:34,800
mean, at this point now, they're a
they're analyzing uh essentially having

1370
01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:39,840
uh you know, almost like a lock system
where they potentially would treat the

1371
01:51:37,599 --> 01:51:46,000
water either going into Lake Mack or
coming out and treat all of it and in

1372
01:51:42,960 --> 01:51:51,520
sort of an engineered solution. And that
engineered solution is going to be in

1373
01:51:48,560 --> 01:51:55,840
upwards of three to$4 million. uh and
and that's not even a guarantee at this

1374
01:51:53,679 --> 01:52:01,360
point because they're still kind of
analyzing that. And so that's really

1375
01:51:58,480 --> 01:52:07,199
what this sort of phase two of project
clarity is and phase one has concluded.

1376
01:52:04,719 --> 01:52:14,400
» What are the contri what are the
contributions of other communities?

1377
01:52:09,280 --> 01:52:19,599
» Park Township contributed um 50,000
over I think a 10-year period. So half a

1378
01:52:17,599 --> 01:52:25,679
million. Holland, Charter Township,
Oswell, half a million. Um the city of

1379
01:52:23,760 --> 01:52:31,280
Holland I believe was also half a
million. Um and then the other

1380
01:52:28,080 --> 01:52:38,159
communities um Lake Town and others
could lower amounts. Um so we're talking

1381
01:52:34,400 --> 01:52:42,560
about sizable contributions for quite a
period of time from most of the local

1382
01:52:40,239 --> 01:52:45,920
communities.
One of the things that we asked for in

1383
01:52:43,840 --> 01:52:49,119
return is if they've got data specific
to Zealand Township, whether it's

1384
01:52:47,360 --> 01:52:52,639
phosphorus levels, absolutely different
areas, they could share that with us and

1385
01:52:51,199 --> 01:52:56,480
they said they could certainly do that
so we could get an idea of, you know,

1386
01:52:54,960 --> 01:52:59,119
are there still more efforts that need
to take place here because they

1387
01:52:57,840 --> 01:53:03,520
mentioned t you know, working with
farmers and and things like that. So,

1388
01:53:01,920 --> 01:53:08,239
» one that's one of the reasons, you know,
$100,000 is is not, you know, a small

1389
01:53:06,000 --> 01:53:13,440
donation. So, we'd like to understand,
you know, how how well is it working,

1390
01:53:10,320 --> 01:53:17,520
» right? And also and also some
transparency on how their money is used.

1391
01:53:16,960 --> 01:53:21,840
» Sure.
>> And you know what are their actual

1392
01:53:19,920 --> 01:53:26,719
projects that they're doing? You know
whether it has to do with us or not.

1393
01:53:24,719 --> 01:53:30,719
What are they doing with the money? What
is their actual project and where's the

1394
01:53:28,880 --> 01:53:34,159
money going? Is it all going you know
90% to administrative and you know what

1395
01:53:32,719 --> 01:53:39,119
I mean? You see that in a lot of
nonforprofits. Not that I'm I just see

1396
01:53:37,360 --> 01:53:42,880
it through those eyes. I I would like to
see data. So I think that would be a

1397
01:53:41,440 --> 01:53:46,800
good thing to ask of them.
>> Yeah. Reasonable questions.

1398
01:53:44,480 --> 01:53:50,560
» I understand right. The phosphorus load
has dropped considerably.

1399
01:53:48,400 --> 01:53:54,080
» That's correct. That's correct.
>> And that's one of the reasons why

1400
01:53:51,840 --> 01:54:00,080
they're sort of moving on to phase two
is because they have seen a significant

1401
01:53:57,760 --> 01:54:07,760
drop in the phosphorus load. They've
done quite they've done quite good work

1402
01:54:03,760 --> 01:54:12,320
over the last decade. And now now now
you're looking at okay what do we do

1403
01:54:09,920 --> 01:54:16,159
with the legacy contamination? What do
we do with the rest of it? Because

1404
01:54:14,320 --> 01:54:20,480
you're not going to you're not going to
receive

1405
01:54:17,920 --> 01:54:26,000
um any more bang for your buck, if you
will. Uh continuing those kind of

1406
01:54:23,679 --> 01:54:29,679
lowhanging fruit BMPs. Now now you
really got to look at an engineered

1407
01:54:28,080 --> 01:54:32,480
solution for the all the whole of the
lake.

1408
01:54:30,080 --> 01:54:35,360
» Some of it's due to the heavy clay soil
here.

1409
01:54:33,360 --> 01:54:39,920
» That's right. It does a lot of runoff
where if you have a grally based subs

1410
01:54:37,840 --> 01:54:44,000
soil, it goes down.
>> This here will naturally it's always

1411
01:54:42,080 --> 01:54:48,239
been high. Lake Mac has been high for
years because of the high phosphorus

1412
01:54:45,760 --> 01:54:52,639
level in the ground naturally here.
>> Right.

1413
01:54:49,440 --> 01:54:58,000
» There are elements of this that are
unavoidable. Um the project clarity is

1414
01:54:55,760 --> 01:55:06,000
working with the Annis Water Institute
of um uh Grand Valley and so some of the

1415
01:55:01,440 --> 01:55:12,000
best minds um are sort of addressing
your concerns and and there's a whole

1416
01:55:08,960 --> 01:55:16,400
academic cohort of individuals that
reviews these projects. I I will tell

1417
01:55:14,480 --> 01:55:20,880
you that the projects themselves there's
a there's they're pretty they're pretty

1418
01:55:18,800 --> 01:55:25,920
transparent with what they've done. In
fact, they they present on this every

1419
01:55:23,280 --> 01:55:32,480
single year. There's a huge, you know,
presentation that exists at Boat Works

1420
01:55:29,119 --> 01:55:36,400
uh on a annual basis. Um and and they
would come in and present all the

1421
01:55:34,080 --> 01:55:41,360
projects. I just I'm not an expert in
this area, so I can't like

1422
01:55:39,440 --> 01:55:47,520
name them all, right? Those the ones
that I could think of, they came to my I

1423
01:55:43,599 --> 01:55:50,719
had um but they they want to work with
the farmers. They want to work with the

1424
01:55:49,280 --> 01:55:54,000
agricultural community because the
agricultural community is a huge

1425
01:55:52,480 --> 01:56:00,159
contributor
um to to to water quality issues

1426
01:55:58,000 --> 01:56:05,119
» along with the homeowner that puts a
bunch fertilizer on their lawns and gets

1427
01:56:02,719 --> 01:56:07,760
washed. There is data that shows that
there's a big load coming just from

1428
01:56:06,800 --> 01:56:11,199
homeowners.
>> We agree.

1429
01:56:08,960 --> 01:56:18,159
» We you are absolutely correct.
>> You are absolutely correct. Part of part

1430
01:56:13,520 --> 01:56:24,080
of how this all funnels into municipal
work is that

1431
01:56:21,360 --> 01:56:33,760
it used to be that the McTar Area
Coordinating Council was in charge of um

1432
01:56:28,639 --> 01:56:39,760
uh watershed issues as it relates to MS4
rules and rags. Do you guys know what

1433
01:56:35,119 --> 01:56:48,320
that is? It stands for um uh municipal
separated storm sewer system. And that's

1434
01:56:42,639 --> 01:56:53,440
actually the how um the uh law around um
the clean water act that's much of the

1435
01:56:51,040 --> 01:56:58,400
implementation of the Clean Water Act.
And so those rules and regulations,

1436
01:56:55,599 --> 01:57:02,719
which it's it's not generally talked
about very often at a township level

1437
01:57:00,400 --> 01:57:07,599
because most of that goes through Joe
Bush's office and and we don't have to

1438
01:57:04,880 --> 01:57:14,239
deal with, you know, enforcing silt
fences and enforcing, you know, planted

1439
01:57:11,040 --> 01:57:19,440
strips and, you know, blankets in in the
drains and things like that. Um, but

1440
01:57:17,199 --> 01:57:25,760
that used to be housed at the McIntyre
Area Coordinating Council. A few years

1441
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:33,520
ago, that was shifted to Project
Clarity. And so now all of the watershed

1442
01:57:29,440 --> 01:57:38,960
planning and all of the MS4 planning
rules and rags

1443
01:57:35,520 --> 01:57:43,599
actually occur out of Project Clarity
and the Outdoor Discovery Center. And so

1444
01:57:41,280 --> 01:57:52,000
they took that all over. And so now
actually the watershed planner for the

1445
01:57:46,320 --> 01:57:58,159
region works for ODC. And so um it is an
entity that is very much integrated into

1446
01:57:56,239 --> 01:58:03,159
the government world. It's almost like a
quasi government nonprofit at this

1447
01:58:00,159 --> 01:58:03,159
point.

1448
01:58:06,400 --> 01:58:15,560
» Thank you, Howard. Um anybody else have
any questions, concerns? Any comments?

1449
01:58:25,920 --> 01:58:34,080
» In favor say I.
>> I. Same sign. Don't forget to turn your

1450
01:58:31,679 --> 01:58:38,119
speakers off.
Who seconded that over there?