[0:19] Good evening, everyone. Thank you all for coming. This is, I think, the third session we've had on the proposal for what to do with HES. So I appreciate you all coming. There have been some major changes.

[0:32] Pretty much every time we've had a new information session. There's been new information. That's true here. We'll go over that in a few minutes. Again, thank you for coming.

[0:39] Leon Malarski is at the microphone right now for those of you who don't know Leon, he is our

[0:45] zoning enforcement officer, he's our acting planning officer while Bill Warner's out hiking

[0:49] the Appalachian Trail. Leon's a practicing architect has years of experience in construction

[0:55] in the industry so without further ado, I will turn the presentation over to Leon.

[1:02] Thank you very much and good evening everybody.

[1:07] Tonight we're going to talk about how to

[1:09] elementary school and its future and the future basically of the town and all the residents

[1:16] as we go forward and like

[1:24] to start by a little brief history, a timeline of how we got

[1:28] to where we are today.

[1:32] A HES school or HES was constructed in 1948.

[1:37] It's last renovated, it was 1989, to give you an idea of just how old the school is.

[1:45] Physical structure is still good, but the electrical and mechanical systems all have to be replaced.

[1:54] In December of 2018, School District 17 voted to close HES.

[2:02] In April of that same year, Planning and Zoning Commission reviewed the acquisition

[2:07] of HES and provided a report to the Board of Select, recommending the purchase of HES.

[2:16] In May of 2019, the Hadam planning and zoning commission held the public hearing to discuss

[2:23] the purchase of HES, a referendum was held in June of 2019, where the residents voted

[2:32] to overwhelmingly buy HES,

[2:39] in June of that same year, HES closed.

[2:49] In the June and July of that same year, the town held a survey for the HES community to see what could be done with the facility.

[3:06] In September of that year, the town closed on HES, and the residents of, and the residents of Adam, became the owners of HES.

[3:19] Again, in October and November of 2019, the town held public shorets, allowing the residents to provide input on what could be the possible uses for HES.

[3:39] Between January 20 and June 22, obviously, with respect to the time that COVID was taking place, the town tried to lease and sell the HES.

[3:50] They applied for two community challenge grants with no success.

[3:55] The town is awarded a grant in August of 22, for $480,000 for roof repairs and other site improvements.

[4:08] In the following year, in May of 23, the town applied for a third community challenge grant

[4:17] renovate HES for affordable housing and senior housing apartments, senior center, a community

[4:25] center and select office space. This is in response to the two surveys that took place in 2019

[4:37] in June and in October.

[4:43] In May of that 23 that same year, roof bids were open and the lowest bid

[4:48] for that roof was over a million dollars.

[4:54] Before the town decided to spend a million dollars on a roof

[4:57] that we really didn't know what was going to take place

[5:00] underneath it, we had to discuss that.

[5:04] And we had a town meeting on June 8th of 2023.

[5:09] During that meeting, many people voiced their concerns

[5:12] and made comments as to what the future use of the school

[5:16] would bid.

[5:19] And at the same time, we allowed, or we didn't allow, but we had people filling out index

[5:24] cards of making further comments and recommendations as to what the town, the residents

[5:31] would do with the building that they owned.

[5:37] In June of 23, the town issues in RFP for a space utilization study, and July of that same

[5:44] year, we issue another RFP for the multi-generational park and playground design to be

[5:50] located at HES, that playground is getting ready for installation as we speak.

[5:59] In August of 23, the town was awarded a $4.55 million community challenge grant for the affordable senior housing apartments, the senior center, the community center, and the select municipal offices.

[6:17] In September 8th of 23, the town issues are RFP to develop HES and response to the grant.

[6:28] It also, with the concerns of the idea of addressing the concerns of the people of the previous studies.

[6:40] And to the November of 23, after receiving three competitive bids for the development of our piece of property, we opened the bids, there was a panel of several people who did it, and we anonymously shows rack reality as the developer for that.

[7:09] In March of 24, we went ahead and did a space use utilization study in response to some of the requests and comments of our fellow residents that was completed by Antonazi Architects and was presented the study at the end of March of 24.

[7:30] The Rat Realty proposal was followed in the following week was presented at a public hearing. The proposal was certainly in response to what we were trying to achieve as a community for our use in that school.

[7:47] On

[7:57] June 22, 2024, a public information session was held for the Affordable Senior Housing Senior Center,

[8:07] basically the uses at HES,

[8:12] and the development concepts that were being put forth at that time.

[8:19] Tonight we're here now as a project summary on how we got here.

[8:23] The economic considerations, and to address any questions further questions and answers that the residents may have.

[8:33] And then, of course, on July 23rd, we'll be the referendum to vote on the future of HES.

[8:40] So the rest of this presentation is going to try and give you a concise summary of where and how we got here.

[8:49] And

[8:56] for that we're going to start with the plan of conservation and development

[9:01] RPOCD.

[9:02] The POCD became effective, became effective, January 18th.

[9:07] The purpose is to set forth the most desirable use of the land and property

[9:12] and to determine an overall plan for the town.

[9:18] The high-level considerations in the report

[9:21] or the adaptive reuse of historic buildings.

[9:24] But destiny and friendly development get the center to be more active.

[9:31] We develop under-utilized buildings, housing alternatives for growing population of our aging

[9:40] seniors, business, and jobs keep the essential of our essential district of our community

[9:48] active, a gathering place for all community members.

[9:53] We also had to consider the infrastructure and community facilities, the development of a public...

[10:06] Sorry.

[10:09] We had to consider the infrastructure and community facilities, the development of public water supply, development of public waste work disposable,

[10:19] And to pay attention to a dark skies initiative, a dark skies initiative basically gives us an active center with a low light level, so that our town center doesn't look like a shopping mall.

[10:36] And then getting around, pedestrian circulation, improve access to area resources, resources, for example senior center and a community center.

[10:48] The

[10:52] plan of action in accordance with the BOCD was to respect what the residents value the most.

[10:58] Invest in a physically, physically sound infrastructure.

[11:04] Try everybody to remember that we own this school,

[11:09] and it's been the desires of all of us in our comments and in the research

[11:16] to own it and control it.

[11:19] With that becomes a responsibility.

[11:23] We not only have to create a use for that building that would be fiscally sound, but would

[11:29] be sustainable or a long period of time.

[11:34] We do not want to create something as owners that we are going to have to support because

[11:40] we didn't plan properly, taking into account all the factors that are necessary to make

[11:46] project like this work.

[11:56] On May 1st 2019, we had a public hearing. This public hearing was

[12:06] going to control the future use of HES. The Planning and Zone Commission, in accordance

[12:13] with the state statutes, had to reduce the report that considered the use of HES

[12:24] school and all the factors that would come into play in accordance with the POC date.

[12:35] And they are, among other things, the best future of the property, whether or not the

[12:41] proposed uses add to the vitality of the Higgenum Center, tax exempt uses, which ownership,

[12:49] the town or school district 17 would, one, give the proposed sale, lease the level of scrutiny

[12:58] at the zards. Two, have the greatest interest in the economic vitality of the Higgenham Center,

[13:06] or three, focuses deliberations on consistency with the implementation implementation of the POCD.

[13:13] The outcome of that result will come under discussion on the 15th and a letter from the

[13:26] planning and zoning commission, our elected officials will be presented to the Board

[13:31] of Selectman with respect to whether or not this project falls under the auspicious of

[13:40] the POCD requirements.

[13:49] So

[13:52] what does the community want to take away?

[13:57] On this slide, you're going to see three,

[14:00] the summary of three surveys and chorets and meetings.

[14:07] The first was the one we discussed earlier

[14:09] in the timeline July 2019 with the HES community feedback survey

[14:16] regarding the possible uses, and I will list them.

[14:22] Bring activity to Higgim Center on Knights and Weekends, preference to lease the property

[14:28] versus selling it.

[14:31] Support local businesses, preserve recreational activities, support the community septic system,

[14:40] Possible use, possible public use, elderly housing, keep grounds for community use.

[14:49] This is back in 2019.

[14:52] On October, November 2019, when the provost threats were held, the following are the

[14:58] comments.

[15:00] Preserve the building for civic uses, community septic systems, community gardens, playgrounds, ball parks, adult recreational uses, event space, community theater, community center, pop up markets, tax generating uses, a key statement, tax generating uses.

[15:27] June 8th, 2023 at our open house at HES, these items basically summarized people's wishes from

[15:40] that meeting.

[15:42] Keep in mind, this is three and a half years later, after the first community feedback

[15:48] survey was taken,

[15:53] I list.

[15:54] Bring activity to Higgins Center on Knights and Weekends, preference to lease versus sell

[16:01] property.

[16:03] Support local businesses, preserve community recreational activities, support a community

[16:10] septic system, possible public use, senior housing, mixed use, multi-generational activities,

[16:20] cultural events, farmers, farmers market, etc.

[16:29] You'll notice in comparing all three

[16:32] of those studies that many of the comments are very similar.

[16:39] And there's a reason for

[16:40] that. It's a, it's a, we're all of the same mindset that these uses when combined could

[16:49] create a sustainable use for that building, that we as the owners would be able to say,

[16:56] okay, we made a good business decision, we have a performing building in the center of

[17:01] our town that brings activity and vitality to a multi-generational set of people.

[17:15] Taking

[17:16] all of the slides and the subsequent inter-consideration, all of the subsequent research,

[17:23] The POCD, we based the final designs and what we thought were considerations on a wishlist

[17:34] of plausible uses as they relate to the cost of creation, maintenance, and continued

[17:40] use, and they are in no particular order.

[17:56] Option one, least HES to a developer, it incorporates a select town offices, a community

[18:03] senior center, senior center, and affordable senior housing. The total cost to the town

[18:11] would be $1,000,000, and this will be explained a little more in detail as we proceed

[18:18] through this presentation.

[18:21] The pros are numerous, the cons are negligible. It meets all the

[18:29] lines of the POC day. The town retains use of public areas indefinitely. It falls

[18:37] in line with the town resident's sentiments. It centralizes community activity. It

[18:43] provides senior housing. It aligns with the state affordable housing mandate of which

[18:51] I'll ask Bob to discuss a little bit when he gets a chance to talk. But what that means

[18:58] is, because our town is proactive, we've already started to deal with that, and we only

[19:04] have a few choices with affordable housing, and I would rather be in our control than

[19:10] somebody else's.

[19:12] Provides multi-generational public space and recreational activities in central downtown

[19:17] location, we'll create a more active downtown atmosphere, creates a space for small performing

[19:25] arts activities contributes to a tractive town center and no real tax consequences to the town.

[19:36] Option two, which was addressed by Antonossia Associates, with respect to renovating the building

[19:44] and moving all of the town's services except for the town garage to that area.

[19:51] Obviously the cost is very high at 31,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

[19:56] We had to take out the soft calls for all the architectural and engineering and we ended up

[20:01] on a Proxima Hard Cross of 23,977.

[20:06] This number may sound exorbitant and it probably is.

[20:11] But we went to a professional and got his answer and these numbers are conservative.

[20:17] We would not know the true cost of this until we actually put our performer together

[20:22] an actual program of what's going to get into that building, how it's going to be built and the level of

[20:30] equipment and materials that we're going to install in the building.

[20:34] So these numbers are conservative.

[20:38] I think they probably could come down, but I'm not going to give you a low number.

[20:42] Because we own the building.

[20:45] And last thing we want to do is get halfway through it and realize we're five million dollars short.

[20:52] Everybody's needs to realize up front that this is a big undertaking to go to this, to this extent, with that building.

[21:01] The pros are essentialized town services, modern community and senior services, renovated facility to a high-end commercial use for town use only.

[21:14] No income-producing property.

[21:17] Our maintenance costs will roughly stay the same

[21:19] when I get to that in a second.

[21:22] We would be able to provide room for H.K. Park and REC.

[21:26] And we'll end also for youth and family services.

[21:30] The cons, obviously, is the extreme construction cost.

[21:35] It will increase the taxes for towns, people.

[21:39] And our maintenance costs, which are currently at 105,000 a year,

[21:43] We'll continue to accrue yearly and probably cross more in each success of year.

[21:51] Renovation and maintenance costs for the vacant buildings.

[21:54] Once we vacate buildings, we are going to have to renovate them or put them up for sale

[22:00] and a fire sale.

[22:03] The buildings are the senior center, it's a very small building, and it's old.

[22:08] And the town hall, if we move down there, is the type of building that would very hard to sell and or modify.

[22:19] It's a non-incombosing property, as I mentioned before.

[22:24] But the present town facilities use approximately 21,000 square feet of space.

[22:30] By moving over to HES, which has a square footage of about 44,000, we'd only be filling half the building.

[22:38] So we would have to figure out what to do with the rest of it.

[22:44] Option number 3 is to leave HES untouched.

[22:50] Continue to use town facilities as they are.

[22:53] The cost to date since the purchase of that of HES approximates $750,000.

[23:02] We as residents have spent five years supporting this building, paying for studies, paying

[23:09] town staff to do all these studies and accumulate information with respect to the residents'

[23:16] wishes.

[23:19] And we have no real pros to leaving this the way it is, it's not a fact that it's really a non-issue.

[23:28] The cons that goes against the POCD goes against recommendations for the HES workshops.

[23:35] It goes against the desires of the townspeople.

[23:39] We're going to look back to the responsibility,

[23:43] the takeaway slide which would show all of the wishes of the town residents.

[23:49] The maintenance costs would continue to accrue at $105,000 a year and continue to rise.

[23:57] That $105,000 is a number we just put together based on last year's maintenance alone.

[24:04] And it does not include any major repairs that we might have to do.

[24:11] We'll discuss in a little while I mentioned a little earlier about the electrical mechanical plumbing systems that there are all need replacement.

[24:25] The major building component, well here, the major building components are in the brink of failure.

[24:29] None of this is in that cost of that I just mentioned.

[24:33] The continued activity equals deterioration.

[24:38] We must do something with the building.

[24:42] Non-income producing property, 90% vacant right now, continued cost studies will only add

[24:50] to the crude cost that we have presently, and we have a remaining roof repair cost of approximately

[24:57] $600,000.

[25:00] I've been in this business for almost 40 years and I've seen studies and I've been on the other side as a presenter.

[25:10] We've had five years to decide what to do with this building and the comments over those five years have not changed.

[25:19] It's time for the town, the residents, we, the owners decide what to do with the property.

[25:39] So as a proposal here, that it's on the table,

[25:50] we want to meet the requirements of the

[25:51] POCD, the Affordable Housing Act, the Connecticut Community Challenge Grant, and wishes

[25:58] of the towns people.

[26:03] We think that the design that's been put forth by the developer meets

[26:09] the requirements of what we try to achieve as representatives of the owners and as owners

[26:18] ourselves.

[26:22] To recap,

[26:28] we'll quick on the trigger.

[26:31] Town of Adam purchased Adam Elementary

[26:33] school on a site of nine acres per four hundred and fifty thousand dollars. It was awarded

[26:41] a four point five five million dollar community challenge grant that would take into account

[26:46] affordable senior housing, senior center, a community center, town offices. One of the requirements

[26:55] of that grant is must have a developer.

[27:02] That proposal came in from rack-reelting, and it's the proposal is to lease the 1989 edition

[27:13] to rack-reelting for 99 years.

[27:16] The town retains ownership of the building and the grounds.

[27:21] Rack renovates and remodels the entire building.

[27:26] Rack pays $350,000 in a lease fee to the town

[27:31] and pays rent of $1 a year for the next 99 years.

[27:38] The town under this plan realizes a tax revenue of $100,000 a year approximately.

[27:46] Those taxes obviously coming from the rental space in the seat for the senior housing.

[27:52] The other 14,000 square feet, the town will pay 140,000 dollars for 10 years as a development

[28:02] fee, 50,000 a year for maintenance and utilities.

[28:09] The lease can be extended for another 99 years for one dollar.

[28:15] Under the terms of the Connecticut Community Challenge grant, the developer must match or

[28:20] received the grant amount of $4.55 million at a minimum to participate.

[28:28] Developers true costs for this part of the project will be about $6 million.

[28:34] And the rough costs for the project, including all the state and town expenses, will

[28:39] approximately be approximately $12 million plus.

[28:46] At this point, I'm going to turn the mic over to Bob and thank you very much for having the patient still listen to me.

[29:09] I'm not going to go over this slide a lot of detail.

[29:11] I know we've thrown a lot of numbers at you already.

[29:14] This presentation and its entirety will be up on the web tomorrow, the town web.

[29:19] And as you probably figured out, this whole thing is being recorded.

[29:22] and as soon as Valley Shore Community GV turns the recording over to us which hopefully will

[29:28] be tomorrow they're usually pretty quick. We'll have it up on our website too so you can

[29:33] review it. So I want to hit the high level numbers because what I've seen a lot in Facebook

[29:37] are partial physical presentations, not the whole picture. I'm just going to concentrate on what

[29:43] you see there as column. The first column option one and that's basically what we've been talking

[29:49] about. We're going to lease the bill. We're going to lease part of the building to rack.

[29:53] I'll show you those details on a side in a couple of minutes. We'll retain ownership of

[29:57] the building. We'll retain ownership of the ground.

[30:01] I mean, let me just go down the figures. We're not going to have to pay anything beyond this point for renovation or remodeling. Under this proposal, rack reality will take care of the roof repair so we don't have any obligation there.

[30:15] As Leon said, they're going to crack will pay a $350,000 buy-in fee to get into the lease.

[30:23] Billing permits be somewhere probably about $18,000.

[30:27] Over the next 10 years, the income and expense for the town, we will pay rack realty $1.4 million,

[30:36] effectively to do the renovation for the town wing for us.

[30:40] The estimate from RAC is the cost to renovate that town wing is about 4.2 million.

[30:46] The estimate we got from it at the nauseous associates was about 9 million.

[30:50] So no matter which estimate you use, we're paying 1.4 million in getting a much larger return.

[30:57] Routine maintenance and utilities were estimating about 50,000 a year.

[31:01] That's not payable to the RAC as a Facebook post claims.

[31:05] That's payable to ever source and whoever's doing the maintenance.

[31:09] We're basing that, honestly, just cutting the current amounts we pay.

[31:15] I honestly expect that the heating bill will be less, but on the other hand, we're

[31:19] going to have central air conditioning or air conditioning throughout, so there's going

[31:23] to be an air-conditioning ventilation bill.

[31:25] They may offset each other, hopefully for the first few years since it's all new renovation

[31:29] and new work, there will be a lot of maintenance other than just routine.

[31:34] Rack will pay property tax or the equivalent of property tax, it will be about $100,000 a year as Leonis said, so in the first 10 years that's another million dollars.

[31:45] So our impact, the next line down you see $532,000, that's what we've paid for those 10 years of ownership.

[31:55] That doesn't reflect the fact that we're not paying the other 50,000 that we're paying now and maintenance per year.

[32:01] This is the best financial deal we've got of those three options, and then it goes on from there, and you can see the other options we've assessed.

[32:11] We do the town hall. If you look at final costs there after 20 years, that's a 34 million.

[32:17] The rack proposals at 32,000, and let's just keep HES as it is until we can figure out and come to a total consensus to what we want to do with it.

[32:28] And then we're going to pay for all that renovation.

[32:31] That's about a $25 million dollar not we'd have to crack over the extended time.

[32:50] All right, this is the site plan that's presented.

[32:52] Again, this is on our website currently.

[32:54] This was on Rack was presenting.

[32:56] I just want to take you through it quickly.

[33:02] We are about to break the ground to put a playground in right there in the area of the

[33:05] Shaddub Museum is now, we'll connect to it, that'll start hopefully next week with breaking

[33:11] ground.

[33:16] We'll be renovating the existing basketball court, also marking it for pickleball,

[33:21] botchie courts, some more pickleball courts, and we're also talking about potentially other

[33:25] recreational activities there. But they'll be responsible for installing those. We'll be

[33:31] responsible for maintaining them afterwards. Just to be clear as to what is least,

[33:44] that blue bubble,

[33:46] which was me with five minutes, and a mouse trying to put it on there, you might pick up that

[33:50] This is not to an A2 survey accuracy requirements, but it will give you a good idea.

[33:56] The blue blob is what RAC is going to be renting from us, it's the area for the 36 senior

[34:03] affordable housing and it's a parking lot for them, and they'll probably be some modifications

[34:08] and we've been talking about sliding the parking lot a little closer, but you get the idea

[34:12] of what it would look like.

[34:14] Again, all of the building, all of the grounds remain in our name.

[34:19] This was done in response to feedback we got at the first session, the Tribune 26, when there was consensus from a lot of people that they didn't want this building sold.

[34:31] There was also a question of how we're going to guarantee the developer will do what he says.

[34:36] Well, there's no guarantees in life, but if the developer is a tenant as opposed to an owner, we have a lot more control.

[34:44] So this was changed to address those two concerns.

[34:49] A change that hasn't been highlighted yet in response to concerns on the last information session

[34:56] when we talked about Iraq after 99 years could buy it for a year for a dollar rather.

[35:02] People didn't want to do that.

[35:04] Even though none of us in this room are going to be here 99 years from now.

[35:08] So again, we check negotiate with Iraq.

[35:11] we'll just give them the option if they're around to renew the lease for a dollar at the

[35:16] time. You know they're 99 year lease. We have to run all these changes through the

[35:21] Department of Economic and Community Development, they're the ones in charge of the grant,

[35:26] rack out to run through their financing, they have to make sure as a lease they could still get finance,

[35:30] they can. We have to make sure from the state that if we lease it we're still eligible for the

[35:34] 4.5 million dollar grant. It doesn't have to be a sale. They're fine with the 99 year lease.

[35:39] So these have been developing as we've been getting your feedback and incorporating as much as we can.

[35:45] But again, the blue area is what's being leased.

[35:48] The rest of it is public use and it's all in our name for as long as forever, frankly.

[36:04] Floor plans, these are on the website as well.

[36:08] And also in the town Hall, if you haven't seen them.

[36:10] But it's basically the proposal is for one bedroom, bedroom and a den,

[36:14] or two bedroom apartments, that's what the different colors are.

[36:20] I'll go back to the unmarked slides so you can see clearly what the proposal is for the grounds.

[36:28] And with that, I will open it up for questions and comments.

[36:30] Please come up to the microphone for your comments so they can be recorded for the people who watch this on the session.

[36:38] Other things I want to say before, before stepping aside, on our town website, you can find all the documents, all the studies, all the information that we've talked about.

[36:49] Please take a minute to look at it.

[36:52] There are Facebook posts as recently as an hour before this meeting

[36:55] with completely erroneous information.

[36:58] We're not selling the building.

[37:01] We're not paying utilities to rack or maintenance to rack.

[37:06] There are a number of things that are just flat wrong on Facebook.

[37:09] I know everyone shocked to hear that.

[37:12] I've said some of you may have heard me say that.

[37:15] After reading a few posts on Facebook, I don't believe anything

[37:19] read on Facebook even if I wrote it. So please take a look at the facts and make your own decision.

[37:27] If you're in favor of it, that's great. If you're not, that's great.

[37:30] But make the decision based on facts, not rumors, and any windows that are being spread.

[37:36] All right. With that, I will step back and invite people to come up to the microphone.

[37:53] Hello. Sharon Bates, I'm wondering why it started off as a sale to rack and then turned lease.

[38:04] All right, as I just said, Sharon, it was the big, the request for bid said sale or lease.

[38:13] All three proposals that came back proposed buying it.

[38:16] But the feedback we got when we presented that was strongly that the town didn't want it sold,

[38:23] so we were able to convert it to a lease.

[38:26] Also, what is the proposed income from RAC having these senior center affordable housing?

[38:35] The income to RAC?

[38:37] Monthly.

[38:38] I couldn't tell you, because I don't know, these have to be affordable housing units.

[38:44] So the state sets a maximum of what the rent can be.

[38:47] I don't know what that is, nor can I project what it will be when they're open.

[38:51] I think that's important.

[38:52] But it's probably in the area of 1,500 in a department.

[38:56] Don't quote me, but it's a ballpark.

[38:58] But also understand, and this is another thing that's wrong on Facebook tonight.

[39:04] When we talk about property tax, we all think, okay, it's based on like our house.

[39:09] The house was worth so many dollars, 70% of that is the assessed value.

[39:14] The taxes are based on that.

[39:16] For most commercial property, which is to be treated as a commercial property.

[39:20] the part that RAC has, it's not based on the value of the building in the land, it's based

[39:24] on what they call net operating income, because that's a purpose of our commercial property

[39:29] that's introduced at income.

[39:31] So the more income you make from it, even without changing the building at all, the more the taxes

[39:36] will be.

[39:37] The 100,000 we're estimating is based on what we were expecting they might get for income

[39:43] for the units.

[39:44] And as that goes up, obviously, the property tax goes up.

[39:48] I would like to ask you where you think that people should discuss all of this in the

[39:57] town of Hatham. I think Facebook, number one, is basically an open forum. And we all

[40:06] know we can take things as salt. But it's also a place too voice-in opinion. And there

[40:16] always a silent majority and a vocal minority. So I personally take a fence at the way that you

[40:28] discuss Facebook because I think we're all intelligent people here. The other thing is with the

[40:36] of Adam, it just seems that you came in or the town came in with one thing and then we

[40:49] see another thing and then it morphs with legalese and verbiage and it makes a slippery

[40:56] slope and it doesn't give a lot of confidence in any of this and I think I heard and I

[41:06] know a lot of people voiced, no housing in the center of Adam. And I am definitely for

[41:15] no housing, affordable senior or anything because we have enough housing in this town.

[41:25] This is not for the seniors of Adam.

[41:33] Even though you're my wife, actually, you're my wife and I love doing this, no, never happened before.

[41:44] But yeah, we had this past Saturday, Saturday before at the farmers market.

[41:49] A cup, because I had the display boards there with the rack proposal, the floor plan you saw, and also this one behind me.

[41:57] And they were, they're middle aged or younger, they were very interested in the proposal

[42:03] because their parents are looking for a place to downsize to parents don't live in

[42:09] town. I'll say that, but please. But they would love to have them move here. And I have

[42:16] talked to a number of seniors who would love to downsize and stay in Hatham. The senior

[42:22] and a director has gotten the same feedback.

[42:25] There are seniors in town who don't want to be burdened anymore

[42:30] with maintaining a large house and are looking for houses.

[42:33] I'm at the microphone here.

[42:35] You chat now.

[42:36] Sharon, you asked you to challenge.

[42:38] I'm answering your question.

[42:40] Now, finally, and I don't see why people who are against housing

[42:44] are so upset with it, if that is the true sentiment of the majority of the town,

[42:50] You don't come up at the vote, and we'll drop this proposal and we'll go on.

[42:54] That's very true. I think it will come up on the vote.

[42:57] One way or the other, yes, it will.

[43:05] Alex Marconi, so I didn't grow up in Adam.

[43:08] I moved here about a year ago with my wife, so with an old school and lots of towns and

[43:13] canker dealing with this, what do you do with it?

[43:16] Really, it's apartments are senior housing. Or bulldoze it.

[43:20] My town bulldoze, my middle school and my high school, busy in North to do with it.

[43:24] And that's probably going to be the future of Hess, if we do nothing.

[43:27] It's eventually going to get bulldozed, because it's not going to be worth hanging around, too.

[43:32] So thank you came up with a good creative solution, Bob.

[43:35] My question really is, how does we get to 32 million for town offices in 12 million for

[43:42] rack? That's a huge difference, and I would think what racks do in building 30 apartments would

[43:48] be actually more expensive than town offices. Any insight?

[43:53] No, to be quiet on us, no, I can't explain the difference.

[43:57] Some of it is municipal and government projects are more expensive to that extent, I don't

[44:03] know, but I will put out as a comparison, rack-est, not rack, Antonossi estimated and Leon

[44:11] is already hit on it.

[44:12] To put the town office, renovate this for town office, it's a new town hall, would be about

[44:23] Nathan Halk and converted that to town offices. That was 16 million. Honestly, when we asked

[44:30] Antonazia to give us an estimate for making this a town hall, I was expecting the bid 20s,

[44:34] and that might be more accurate. But the point is that it's a bunch of millions.

[44:39] Hey,

[44:42] that might should be one.

[44:47] You have to understand the building types that you're discussing there.

[44:51] Antonazia's costs and estimates are based on a commercial design. The mechanical system is alone.

[44:57] would quadruple or even.

[45:00] 5 times the cost of anything we're doing. By us creating 36 housing units and 14,000 square feet of commercial space, we can downsize the mechanical systems. They don't have to talk to each other. They don't have to communicate.

[45:17] And as you well know, if you're building a small apartment or a house, you can go to many splits,

[45:24] more of a downsize piece of equipment, which causes considerably less.

[45:33] So then you can also talk about the types of finishes that go into a commercial building,

[45:38] versus the types of finishes that go into residential, and even our office space.

[45:44] One of the things we've requested of the developer is that we have a say in the design of our space that we're going to occupy for the community center and the selectown offices.

[45:59] We want that to not be so much commercial but to have more homey feel.

[46:04] So that when we go there and we're visiting, or we're partaking in a community activity there,

[46:11] it feels a little bit more like we're going home somewhere and instead into a stark construction,

[46:18] that's made to take us a serious amount of abuse.

[46:23] So it's a much higher level of product that goes into the building,

[46:27] but your big expenses are going to be in your mechanical, electrical plumbing systems,

[46:33] firearms, sprinklers, interconnections, everything has to speak to each other, everything is

[46:38] computer-controlled. You have to worry about fresh air makeup and how you're dealing with the

[46:42] people that are inhabiting that building. So a lot that goes into it. So it's a big difference

[46:47] as to what we're doing with what we're trying to do and that would be the biggest difference in the

[46:53] cost. And my last question is, to the town give any thought into us being the landlord of senior housing,

[47:00] doing basically what rack is, and then we would collect the income from the rack.

[47:07] I can't say we give it serious thought. I have some concern. It's going to raise additional

[47:13] costs for the town because now you have to have people who manage that and do it professionally.

[47:17] To me, there's a couple of considerations. To me, I think a private entity would be better.

[47:23] Private entity also has a little more flexibility on to whom they rent it and to whom they say no to.

[47:28] and it's easier for them to evict tenants that are not

[47:30] compliant as a rule.

[47:32] But the other thing in this situation in particular,

[47:35] this grant requires partnering with a developer.

[47:39] It's a common state requirement for their grants these days

[47:42] because they want to make sure the project moves forward.

[47:46] So could we eventually do that and manage it ourselves?

[47:49] We could if we want to go that route,

[47:52] but we don't get the 4.5 million assistance to do that.

[47:55] Thanks, Bob. Overall, it's a nice job.

[47:57] Thank you.

[48:09] Good evening, ma'am and all.

[48:13] I live in the house here in the Higgen, many years ago, back in 1977, when I met my wife

[48:21] and we got married and we were looking for a house, I can remember, I brought in what anywhere

[48:26] I worked.

[48:27] As a man, his electrician, the guy's up in there, and well, you're going to send your kids

[48:30] to private school?

[48:32] No.

[48:32] He said, well, you've got to get out of the middle of town because the schools are no good.

[48:36] because I hear that ain't a lot much better.

[48:39] But anyways, we looked around, and somebody suggested,

[48:42] I did switch 17, my wife and I, we drove around,

[48:45] we saw the new high school and stuff like this.

[48:47] We fell in love with the place.

[48:49] So we bought a house, up on there, on the

[48:52] Killing Worth Roadmeer, where the herb shop used to be,

[48:56] the t-shirt.

[48:58] And it was still there, I like it,

[49:00] but there is a lot of work that I've done.

[49:03] And the last meeting where we had at the, they had an elementary school, there was a woman

[49:08] came up with them and they were saying, well, who, who would want to live in here and I raised

[49:13] my hand.

[49:14] I said, I would, not now, not probably when they built it, but if I wanted to downsize into a small

[49:21] house and yes there's a lot of houses around, but not a lot of them are affordable for senior

[49:26] citizens.

[49:27] I said, I would love to get a place in here, because then I can walk down to my tree and

[49:32] place to get my lottery tickets and stuff, and then you've got the restaurants there,

[49:37] and you've got the post-opposing walk too, you've got the pharmacy, all within walking this

[49:41] business and stuff like this.

[49:43] So in that sense, I would love it, and I've spoken to other people with that idea, and they

[49:48] think it would be great, and it would be something that would be a foldable, and as Bob had

[49:53] before, because the state laws we can't make it just

[49:58] Adam's senior Senate, but when they first open,

[50:02] we'll make sure the word gets around to Adam,

[50:04] Higgit, Adam, Nick, and all that, so that we citizen here

[50:08] can get first abs, and eventually.

[50:11] So I think it's a very good idea.

[50:13] I have in this senior citizen affordable hat,

[50:16] as well as old logic.

[50:18] I support it.

[50:19] Thank you.

[50:20] Thank you.

[50:21] Let me just, because that comment has prompted another mic, were you in line?

[50:25] Yeah, but let me just talk for a minute on a four-hour hours insurance.

[50:30] Fortable housing is a need in the state for all people.

[50:35] Not just for seniors, but a four-hour housing is a big need.

[50:38] The state is making some serious pushes to require talents to develop affordable housing.

[50:44] This is a step.

[50:45] As part of our this mandated requirements for affordable housing, every municipality had to have an affordable housing plan.

[50:53] We do.

[50:55] We have committed to the state in the next five to ten years to have 35 or so affordable housing units.

[51:03] Again, not necessarily to seniors, but overall this plan will help us meet that.

[51:09] I can tell you if you follow the legislature not the short session with the long session last year,

[51:14] There were some pretty draconian bills presented to force towns to develop affordable housing.

[51:25] The state is going to force it or we can get out in front of it and this is a good first step.

[51:30] But I will also fully acknowledge we need affordable housing for all, not incommetable, for all age levels.

[51:38] This affordable housing honestly is now more accurately reported as working force housing for the most part.

[51:45] It's housing for the nurse, housing for the clerk and the hardware store, housing for our kids who have graduated college and want to come back and can't afford to buy a house.

[51:56] So there's going to be a big push for affordable housing. This is a step, but it can't shouldn't be the adequate.

[52:03] Why wasn't affordable housing put on over with the other apartments that were built?

[52:09] Because we can't force the builders at this point to do it.

[52:13] If a builder has state money involved,

[52:17] and this was part of when the discussion we talked about

[52:20] Rossi in apartments there,

[52:22] state grant was involved in that.

[52:24] At about 20% of the housing units your apartments

[52:27] have to be affordable.

[52:30] But for private projects, there is no way to require that, currently.

[52:36] How do you, Mr. McGarry, give first dibs to the hadam residents to move into the senior proposed

[52:46] senior housing? I think that's an impossibility. And I would like you to explain how you do that.

[52:54] Okay, well, one, we don't rack reality does, and it's a matter of where are they going to market and one are they going to market?

[53:02] Oh, so, because Rock is here in the town, they're going to...

[53:11] I am saying, rack has the option of advertising it first, right in town, before they go beyond.

[53:18] that go with Connecticut state laws?

[53:21] There's nothing, again, marketing isn't an issue for that.

[53:26] The issue is once you have the applications, you can't put them in a pile of, okay, these

[53:31] are the atom ones, these are the not atom ones.

[53:34] We're going to go through this pile first and pick the ones we want and if they're any left

[53:38] over, then we'll pick from some of these.

[53:41] You've got to consider all those applications that you're considering at one time.

[53:46] So you're going to have a rack, look at all the hatham.

[53:52] The proposes we've had for a rack, and I can't force them to do it, but they've been agreeable.

[53:56] So far, they will market it first in town.

[54:01] They're going to, I will admit, they are going to fill empty units with somebody that think is a good tenant.

[54:06] It may be somebody from town, it may not.

[54:09] Quite honestly, I don't see a whole lot of demand that people are going to be coming from Willamantic or Lichfield Hills

[54:15] To come to Adam but they might really yeah, I would expect most people moving it to senior housing

[54:22] Wanna stay in the area they are oh I would too, but I don't think that's going to be

[54:29] Truly real life again. I'm not saying these are all units will be filled with seniors from how I am that that would be foolish

[54:35] I'm here to say all right another thing with the maintenance

[54:41] Yes.

[54:42] Yes.

[54:45] We're paying maintenance on what is it?

[54:48] The land is it just the building inside like sweeping the floors?

[54:54] What is the $50,000 maintenance cover?

[54:58] That is our estimate, is that is primarily maintenance on the part of the building we are

[55:04] using.

[55:05] rack is responsible for maintaining the grounds that they use which would be the parking lot

[55:10] basically and the bill part of the building they are occupied. So while the grass and everything

[55:16] else we maintain. Yes. Okay. Because that's available for public use. And that's 50,000 a year.

[55:23] No, the 50,000 is what we're estimating on the building. The grounds I don't have a good estimate for.

[55:28] Oh, all right. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome.

[55:35] Just a question on this part that we would own.

[55:41] I've been thinking a lot about the original intent of the ground when it was donated back in the 40s I would imagine.

[55:50] And the use of education.

[55:52] So one of my questions is, could the community center be expanded at all to accommodate the arts and some of the things I've seen around the blue fire stages being taken their space being taken?

[56:02] is the community center able to be expanded into it, able to accommodate those types of things

[56:08] so that the original intent of the building could still sort of, you know, live and breathe

[56:14] in this new form. Okay. Well, to the original D, the transfer of this property to the town,

[56:23] there's some rumors floating around and I can understand where they started that it was for a school.

[56:28] It had to be a school in education use, actually that's not accurate, not entirely.

[56:34] The requirement was that the town erect a school on the property, and to tear down the

[56:41] union school and make that property a town green.

[56:44] When they opened the school, those conditions have been met.

[56:48] So we're not required to keep educational use there.

[56:51] There certainly will be some in the senior center.

[56:54] The auditorium, as most of you I think have been in it and you know there's a stage in

[56:58] It certainly can be, and it blue fire does use it for presentations, but for their other support work.

[57:04] I don't think there's room in this building for it.

[57:08] With either proposal, this or making it a town office building.

[57:12] Got it.

[57:13] Okay. Thank you.

[57:19] Okay.

[57:21] What I started to say is the young couple that approached us at the farmer's market.

[57:28] live in Hatham, their parents live in Naga-Tuk or something and they will be down-sizing.

[57:37] And this young couple would like their parents to come to Hatham to be close to them and live in an affordable housing situation down the road from them.

[57:47] Now, does that make them out of towners?

[57:50] Or do they get, you know, do they become encounters because they have children that live here?

[57:58] I think you need to start thinking a little broader than them and us.

[58:04] The other thing is the rack developer that is working on this project also lives in town.

[58:19] Sharon, there's somebody already waiting, please sit down and give.

[58:24] Come on, what would you like to talk about, Ron?

[58:26] you want to go round around all the time, but we've had this exchange of any time. What happens if

[58:33] rack decides to sell along the way? To sell what? To sell what? If they don't own anything,

[58:43] they have leasing rights, they can sell the leasing rights and certain conditions. Now the price

[58:48] what happens? Well, prices rise how? Okay, just like anybody, why is this? Why is something?

[58:57] It instantly, it goes to prices. If anyone bought into the lease, they'd be still be bound by the conditions that were on rack.

[59:08] These would still have to be affordable. Actually, I think by stage statute, it may have to be deeded as affordable for a period of time.

[59:15] So somebody could come in and continue what rack was doing.

[59:19] Somebody couldn't come in and say, okay,

[59:21] I'm going to renovate these apartments and make them all high end units and charge $1,000.

[59:26] They could not do that for how long?

[59:28] Well, the lease term is 99 years.

[59:31] No, books, I far as rack, raising prices or whatever.

[59:35] They've got to be afforded.

[59:36] It's going to in the lease terms with this as affordable seeing your housing for the term for the 99-year term of the lease.

[59:44] And what's Sharon, there's no guarantee at anybody, what I've well overqualified as a senior, believe me.

[59:50] There's no guarantee at anybody that's going to get in there that's a senior.

[59:55] They're going to, the rack is in a rental business, they're going to put it on the open market.

[1:00:00] Okay. I can guarantee that people get in there will be seniors. I cannot guarantee that they'll be from Adam. That's correct.

[1:00:06] But I find it hard to believe that everyone, every unit every time is going to be sucked up by somebody from Adam.

[1:00:13] It may be, but also keep in mind if our seniors don't want to avail themselves to this. Part of the advantage of this is even though I know some people don't want more housing in the center is if we want to revitalize that center and support the businesses we have.

[1:00:29] and hopefully and sent others to open new businesses,

[1:00:33] we need people on activity.

[1:00:35] Come in, ladies.

[1:00:36] If you want to raise tax revenue,

[1:00:39] we need an industrial park.

[1:00:42] They make a lot of money.

[1:00:43] Yep, and I would agree with that.

[1:00:45] Thank you, Bob.

[1:00:49] Good evening, I'm Sherry Tuba,

[1:00:51] and I just want to congratulate Bob and Bill Warner

[1:00:54] and all those who worked on this plan.

[1:00:56] I think it's phenomenal.

[1:00:58] And I love the idea of leasing the senior housing

[1:01:01] I talk to seniors. I'm a senior and there is really a need for senior housing and I think it's a great idea

[1:01:08] And I just applaud you for all the great work you've done. Thank you, Cheryl. Yeah, and I'll say a number of seniors want to stay most of us probably say

[1:01:16] We want to stay in our houses forever

[1:01:19] Unfortunately for a lot of us those plans change

[1:01:22] And you can't or you realize

[1:01:24] Now that you're a widow or a widow or it's a heck of a lot of work to maintain your property and you'd like to downsize

[1:01:32] I have a question on the referendum.

[1:01:35] I think the wording of the referendum is that we're voting on the proposed lease summary.

[1:01:41] The proposed lease summary as I've seen it is just six points.

[1:01:44] I haven't seen any links to the full lease.

[1:01:48] Will that be made available?

[1:01:50] The full lease will come about after we get authorization to enter into negotiations for it.

[1:01:55] It will follow the guidelines in those six main six or ten whatever the main points are there in the lease summary.

[1:02:01] Okay, this is the first time I've seen that Raqq is only leasing part of the building, will that be included in part of the referendum?

[1:02:09] Because I think that's very important for people.

[1:02:12] We're the wording of the referendum is set because it had to be set for us like Manhattan to approve it and we had to get ballots done.

[1:02:19] But the intent is clear and what we're committing to is a Raqq is only going to rent or lease.

[1:02:26] Basically, it's the 1953 edition in the 1989 editions.

[1:02:33] Okay, so I've been to almost every informational center, and this is the first time I've seen that.

[1:02:38] So if I were a voter going in, I would think they were leasing the whole building.

[1:02:43] So will a diagram or something else be made available to the public as part of the referendum process?

[1:02:48] We will have as much, and we can definitely have the summary of the key points for us to negotiate.

[1:02:53] have already cleared that with the lawyer. I'm hoping we can also put in something like

[1:02:59] the slide I showed with that outline the area that's being they will be leasing. I don't

[1:03:03] know how much we can do without it becoming election hearing.

[1:03:06] Okay, thank you.

[1:03:07] You're welcome.

[1:03:17] Hi, my name's Tim Lucas. I want to say I think this is great. I was a fan when we previously

[1:03:24] were pitched the sale of the building to rack. I'm even more of a fan now that it's

[1:03:30] I love that the town will retain ownership and control of the property.

[1:03:34] I think as somebody said a couple of minutes ago, Sharon, I think your name was.

[1:03:39] That town staff has done a phenomenal job with this.

[1:03:41] I think bringing multiple iterations of the plan to the table,

[1:03:46] coming and speaking openly to the townspeople,

[1:03:49] being willing to receive the tomatoes and darts being thrown at you,

[1:03:54] and still stand up like professionals.

[1:03:56] I really commend you all for what you're doing.

[1:03:58] I think this is great.

[1:04:01] I've been on that side of the podium in these types of meetings,

[1:04:04] and it's not easy, so I give you a lot of credit.

[1:04:08] I also think that it's important that people go into this and think about this within open mind.

[1:04:18] I'm not on Facebook, so I think I count myself very, very blessed,

[1:04:23] maybe relieved that I'm not hearing and reading all the hoopla that's out there on Facebook.

[1:04:27] Sounds like there's a lot of static out there. I'm sure there is. One of the reasons I'm not on

[1:04:32] Facebook, but I'm not here to sold box and grandstand. But I do think it's a great opportunity for the

[1:04:38] town. I think that perfection is the enemy of progress. And if we are constantly chasing

[1:04:51] perfection, and we want to make this the ideal euphoria. It's just not going to happen.

[1:04:57] We're going to continue and before you know it, 10 years from now, we'll be sitting here

[1:05:00] having the same conversations. And I feel like not to turn this in a direction where I'm

[1:05:05] going to get tomatoes and darts thrown at me, but I feel like we missed an opportunity with Rossi

[1:05:10] because we voted that down. We collectively as a community voted it down, right? I feel like we

[1:05:16] This is an opportunity, hopefully that all the opportunities there aren't gone, but hopefully

[1:05:21] we can bring that back to the table in some form with a different developer, because that's

[1:05:26] an ISOR.

[1:05:26] That needs to be addressed.

[1:05:27] I hate to see HES fall into that same category where we're just our own enemy where we're

[1:05:34] not letting this thing be developed and seeing progress out of this.

[1:05:38] So I think that, do you need a doctor, I hear you sowing and moaning from here.

[1:05:44] It's really disturbing and disrespectful.

[1:05:48] Yes?

[1:05:48] I get it.

[1:05:50] I get it.

[1:05:56] So I think that some of our citizens here are not participating in the open forum in a positive

[1:06:08] and constructive light.

[1:06:10] I had one more thought that I just lost.

[1:06:13] And I think that it's a great opportunity, I think that rack is great because they're

[1:06:20] from town.

[1:06:21] So I think this is a good opportunity.

[1:06:22] Again, I commend you for the bringing this to the table and continuing to present with

[1:06:27] open minds.

[1:06:28] And listen to the feedback that we're giving.

[1:06:29] I'm fully in support of this.

[1:06:30] I was before.

[1:06:31] I'm even more now.

[1:06:32] Great job.

[1:06:33] Thank you, Tim.

[1:06:39] Hi.

[1:06:40] Oops.

[1:06:41] I'm going to step back.

[1:06:42] I'm Chris to do Yard and I'm one of the founding board members of Blue Fire Stage Company and I'm also a

[1:06:48] Hatham resident and we have been a stage company since 2019 and we've been using HES since the fall of 2019 when we were established.

[1:07:02] We have been in that space, we paid, excuse me, we paid rent to the town for that space for two years and we've been excellent stewards and for all of COVID, we were kind of like the only people kind of taking care of the space, washing toilets, replacing paper towels and toilet paper and whatnot, but beyond just the space, what we have been establishing since 2019.

[1:07:30] Is a real community experience. And not just within Hatham and for Hatham residents, we've been bringing people in from other towns into our town and they're coming in for rehearsals. They're coming in for performances. They're coming to our restaurants. They're using our businesses. They're falling in love with Hatham too. But they are being exposed to this town. And so my comment is like,

[1:08:00] This proposal by shutting us out, and we're not the only ones.

[1:08:05] There are other community groups that use this space,

[1:08:08] and by only having the cafeteria as the one indoor community space,

[1:08:16] you're really shutting the door on a lot of other groups that can build this community,

[1:08:22] that can bring this vitality into Adam.

[1:08:25] And that's where my concern is.

[1:08:30] I think more of this space could be a lot

[1:08:35] for community use, and that would actually bring more people

[1:08:39] into the town on a more permanent basis.

[1:08:43] We've got a bunch of apartments in the center of town,

[1:08:46] and isn't that cool?

[1:08:47] Yes, it is.

[1:08:48] But when you actually have activity around that living space,

[1:08:53] a vital activity that interplay with each other,

[1:08:59] you're going to build and grow something even greater.

[1:09:03] So I think that this current proposal is, yes,

[1:09:07] and I know you've said before,

[1:09:09] it's not a perfect plan and I understand that,

[1:09:12] but it almost just feels like the town's just trying to get rid

[1:09:16] of this HES albatross that's hanging around our neck.

[1:09:19] And I think what we need to do is really

[1:09:22] invest in our people, in our community who are doing the things to build even more community

[1:09:30] and make Adam an even more accessible and inviting place, that's all I wanted to say.

[1:09:43] Thank you for your comment.

[1:09:44] How many performances have you done in the five years?

[1:09:50] So you've done 20.

[1:09:56] Let me march. Can you give me just a couple of seconds here? Thank you, dear.

[1:10:03] Okay, and I thank you for the work you're doing as far as other community groups there.

[1:10:07] I've set up before and I know people take a fence.

[1:10:10] But by and large, our use, all the activities that are in there are use of it of Hadamilometry has been as a closet.

[1:10:17] It's a storage space. The library is using it now during the renovation.

[1:10:21] and the lines have done it, historical society has done it.

[1:10:26] It hasn't seen much with the exception of blue fire of active use of the space.

[1:10:33] We're paying a lot for a closet.

[1:10:36] And I realize the plan doesn't include you for economic reasons that the developer has

[1:10:42] got to have a fiscal irresponsible plan on his end, but there may be other options in town.

[1:10:50] Thank you for waiting, Mark.

[1:10:53] Thank you for hearing me. First of all, thank you for the presentation. I thought it was very well done.

[1:11:02] I wanted to mention that the Adam Committee on Aging has supported or written a letter of support for the proposal of the Selectman.

[1:11:15] And then further, I want everybody to know that there are one fifth of us in town about,

[1:11:27] that are 65 or older.

[1:11:31] And many of us who live in larger houses are looking for space that we can move into that

[1:11:40] as less organizational work to do with like lawns and repairs.

[1:11:47] But anyway,

[1:11:50] I favor the proposal and hope that the town will consider it seriously.

[1:11:57] Thank you.

[1:11:58] Thank you, Mark.

[1:12:08] On the voting on the 23rd.

[1:12:10] Yep.

[1:12:11] Are we meeting someplace or this?

[1:12:13] The voting is just like a regular election.

[1:12:16] You go to your normal polling place.

[1:12:17] or news the machine is that they open at six o'clock like they always have they will be open until late o'clock

[1:12:23] it's just like a regular election and if you can't be here you can get absentee ballots

[1:12:28] town clerk has them available

[1:12:31] um the uh the thing we vote on is it three is it's going to be just this we vote yes or no

[1:12:40] or be possibility voting at the one's 32 million or the one is just just this one

[1:12:46] Because this is a decision we have to make, honestly, there's, I don't think there's enough to say yes or no to a town, all proposal and the other proposal is just we just don't pursue anything

[1:12:57] We pursue trying to figure out what we want to do.

[1:13:00] Is there still an idea of having some of the property used as a community for the center of septic system?

[1:13:06] Yes, that's still available under this.

[1:13:08] Mr.

[1:13:17] Caramelare Schimm, a resident here for the past 13 years, I was just wondering, I'm trying

[1:13:22] to figure it out not in here, the auditorium, what's happening with that at the school.

[1:13:28] That is where the Blue Stage Fire Company uses?

[1:13:31] Yeah, the auditorium will remain, will be fixed up and improved, but it will be still an auditorium,

[1:13:36] it will still have a stage.

[1:13:38] And the warming kitchen that's attached to it will be enlarged to make it better as a warming

[1:13:43] to our kitchen. Okay, and could the blue fire stage company still rent it and practice there

[1:13:48] and everything? They certainly could. Because I think, you know, senior residents would love

[1:13:52] to go and watch. I'm sure. We would too. What age do you take?

[1:13:58] Sorry. What age group do you take for any ages? In my kids would love to do it. So, okay, I just

[1:14:04] wanted to make sure they could, you know, groups could still use that. Oh yeah, definitely. Thank you.

[1:14:08] Sorry, I just wanted to clarify.

[1:14:11] Well, it's great to have a performance space.

[1:14:14] What we actually require on the daily is

[1:14:18] a rehearsal space and also a space for all of our set pieces,

[1:14:24] our costumes, that kind of thing, which is what we have

[1:14:26] in the downstairs portion of HES right now.

[1:14:30] We have two of the classrooms, the old art and music room.

[1:14:34] Um, because in order to rent this space for an eight for three nights a week for an eight week rehearsal period is just not it's not fiscally possible for a non profit group like ours like us it's just it's it is just too expensive. So that's why we are asking for like classroom space to still be included in a plan for HDS.

[1:15:00] Thanks.

[1:15:03] Not if we go forward with this proposal is pretty much as you've seen. There can be tweaks to it, but we can't go back to the developer and say, this section of the building that you thought you were going to use, you can't.

[1:15:21] We do that at the expense of the senior center and the one we have now is inadequate and is frankly a safety hazard. You're familiar with it. There's, I think, eight parking places there. We're seeing an average of 16, 17 seniors every day. The senior center is open.

[1:15:37] And what that means is some of them park across the street at the Breiner Memorial Library, which is fine with the library.

[1:15:44] My concern is that death march they take across 154 to get to the senior center.

[1:15:49] It's just not good.

[1:15:51] The property of the senior center is only a third of an acre.

[1:15:55] There's no room to expand parking. There's no room to expand the building.

[1:16:07] For parking, a current senior center of this proposal.

[1:16:14] Yeah, there'll be a slightly behind-the-cat mark.

[1:16:17] That's a state requirement, at least a minimum.

[1:16:20] Parking during the day, I don't think it'll be a problem there.

[1:16:23] The tenant parking is around behind the for the apartments is around behind it, and that

[1:16:28] little L area.

[1:16:31] So there will still be plenty of parking.

[1:16:33] The front parking lot is still available for use for the farmers market or other events.

[1:16:48] All right.

[1:16:48] Anyone else?

[1:16:56] Hi.

[1:16:56] My name is Sarah, and I'm a resident of Paganum, and I want to start by thanking all of you

[1:17:03] here for your service and for your time, and you all have full-time jobs that you worked

[1:17:07] all day at today, and I appreciate you spending your time here.

[1:17:11] I moved to this town in 2019, not originally from here, and the welcome that I received when

[1:17:20] came here was amazing and it helped me to feel excited about living here.

[1:17:26] I have six children in this town in the school district and I'm not a senior quite yet.

[1:17:34] So, I represent kind of the other side of the population with young kids.

[1:17:39] And I can say that as a mom of young kids, this is really exciting to me because it makes me hopeful

[1:17:46] that my children will actually have activities and cultural events and opportunities to connect

[1:17:53] with other people of the town here because for a long time there hasn't been that.

[1:17:57] So the idea of having space for a multi-generational community is really exciting.

[1:18:02] I'm also a licensed clinical social worker.

[1:18:04] I have almost 20 years of practice and every study that's ever been done about the mental

[1:18:10] benefits of community connection and connecting seniors with younger individuals is

[1:18:18] boundless. Every study that's ever been done on it is the same. It says it's a

[1:18:21] wonderful thing. And what I'll say about my experience in this town and the

[1:18:26] community is that I think this is a group of people who are extremely hardworking

[1:18:33] and they care about families and their children. And most of all there's a deep

[1:18:39] commitment to community here and it's why I fell in love with the town and I think that this

[1:18:45] does an amazing job of incorporating that spirit and doing what's best to move the town forward,

[1:18:52] even though it may feel scary. And so I really appreciate this. I feel excited. I feel excited that my

[1:18:58] kids are here and are hopefully going to be able to experience it and that will continue to grow as

[1:19:03] and continue to welcome new people like me, who I think bring good things to the town, like children.

[1:19:11] And again, I just thank you for your time. Thanks.

[1:19:21] I want to let you all know you all know, oh, a special round of thanks to her.

[1:19:26] She's the one who produced these slides for us.

[1:19:29] If you had had to sit through the original slides we had, you wouldn't have made a pass the first one.

[1:19:36] She did a great job at making them attractive and skinning down what was said on them. So again. Thank you

[1:20:03] Neil Perrin

[1:20:05] so

[1:20:05] One thing I need a couple things. One thing I need to address is

[1:20:09] We are a rack markets

[1:20:12] Who comes here

[1:20:14] There's a individual that spoke earlier question about that if I remember correctly you're from killing worth and nobody gave you a hard time to move here

[1:20:21] When you did right

[1:20:24] The other thing is I am looking around the room and I'm pretty much the only one that has

[1:20:34] interaction with the senior Monday through Friday.

[1:20:38] So to say that housing is not wanted, I think what people had mentioned was they were concerned

[1:20:43] about low income affordable housing, not senior housing.

[1:20:48] There is one senior that just recently moved out at town.

[1:20:52] She does ask me when the applications will be available.

[1:20:56] I explained her, they got to build it first.

[1:21:00] The seniors want to stay in town.

[1:21:03] They don't want to leave.

[1:21:04] Some of them are fortunate enough to live with their kids.

[1:21:09] And the death walk is pretty dangerous out there.

[1:21:12] I actually walk alive.

[1:21:13] The seniors across the road so they don't get hit.

[1:21:15] I almost got hit with a Tesla.

[1:21:18] Fortunately, the state PD came out and they caught the lady

[1:21:20] and she got a very, very hefty fine.

[1:21:24] I implore everybody who is not familiar with the Senior Center.

[1:21:29] Come down Monday, Tuesday, or Thursday around 11, 30, and see what a nightmare it is.

[1:21:34] I do drive the Senior Van.

[1:21:35] There are days where I cannot pull in there.

[1:21:39] This, in the past five years, from where I'm aware of, nobody has approached the town

[1:21:44] with proposals to put something here.

[1:21:47] Nobody's knocking on the doors.

[1:21:49] Nobody's, you know, trying to move in here, you got to start somewhere and if you get seniors

[1:21:56] here and a lot of people question why the Shad Shack is they are the museum.

[1:22:01] Well, if you have a museum there and you have a playground there and you got seniors there,

[1:22:05] it all comes together.

[1:22:06] So, eventually, this could be phase one.

[1:22:09] The town did vote down Rossi, you got to start somewhere because if not, downtown in a state

[1:22:15] just like it is. We are going to lose out on property tax. We all know property tax, you

[1:22:21] know why your middle rate will never go down. We deal with it. It's something that has to

[1:22:26] start here. Otherwise, there's no-

[1:22:30] To be people bashing the first select men, the zoning board of appeals, plan and zoning, you couldn't get it done.

[1:22:38] I fully support this, not because I drive the seniors, or I would love to move my mother over here.

[1:22:45] It's needed. And thank you to Bob, the select men, P&Z, land use, Mr. King, the students that are here on their summer break.

[1:22:57] This town needs to be welcoming and bring everybody together.

[1:23:00] There's so much stuff we haven't common, if we just get rid of this bickering.

[1:23:05] This could be a better town than what it already is, so hopefully it passes.

[1:23:22] There, we can make space for you in the jail.

[1:23:25] We'll even give you keys right now.

[1:23:26] Right out of the promise.

[1:23:29] You've performed at the jail.

[1:23:30] Nice.

[1:23:31] Nice.

[1:23:33] Rebekah Degnan, I'm the president of Blue Fire.

[1:23:36] Also, a Hadam resident and a former educator in our district for 20 years.

[1:23:41] I moved to Hadam with my husband in 2004, which is when I was initially hired by our middle school as a course teacher,

[1:23:50] taught choir for 10 years, and then got my master's in counseling, changed over to be a school counselor in our district at our middle school for six years,

[1:23:59] And then recently I've opened a private counseling practice and killing worth.

[1:24:04] I'm very invested in these towns in HK.

[1:24:07] I love our kids, I love our families.

[1:24:11] And I have first hand seen how much of a difference

[1:24:13] both in terms of community and mental health.

[1:24:17] The arts have done for our kids and for our families.

[1:24:21] And one of the things that we pride ourselves in at Blue Fire is that we go out of our way to collaborate

[1:24:28] with the fine arts departments throughout our building or throughout our town.

[1:24:33] So, we make sure we schedule around their performances, so we never conflict.

[1:24:38] So, kids can do our shows and the school shows.

[1:24:40] We have an apprenticeship program where we train people.

[1:24:44] Many of them are kids and teens.

[1:24:46] We train them in an area of the arts that they're interested in,

[1:24:49] and then they take those skills that they don't learn anywhere else except from us.

[1:24:53] And they go, and they become the stage managers for the school plays, they become the customers,

[1:24:58] they become a lot of them, the lead actors, pit orchestra performers, we do all areas of that.

[1:25:06] And we have a huge group of kids and families that have gone through our programs and the town's benefit from that.

[1:25:13] It is really important that we continue to do this work and that we have a space, a performance space is not sufficient.

[1:25:22] And we have to pay a hundred dollars a day to use the auditorium, the cafeteria and the HES.

[1:25:27] So it is not sufficient.

[1:25:29] We can't have our home there.

[1:25:30] We need a space dedicated to us that we can use day in and day out and do our programming.

[1:25:37] And with this proposal, that will be lost.

[1:25:39] And it's not just our loss.

[1:25:41] I want to make it very clear that it's our town's loss.

[1:25:44] It's our kids' loss.

[1:25:46] It's families' loss.

[1:25:47] We love our seniors.

[1:25:49] we actually would love to have a place where the seniors can move in the senior center, senior housing,

[1:25:56] move into HES. We would love to do programs with and for our seniors. We would love to bring the arts to you.

[1:26:05] We are not against that at all. We want our seniors there, but we only have two rooms.

[1:26:12] And that is all we need. We don't even need a performance space. There's other places we can rent to perform.

[1:26:17] We need our two rooms to bring our programming to keep contributing to our community, to bring business into our communities, and that's going to be lost, and that is a massive, massive loss for our towns.

[1:26:30] So I really hope that people will vote now and that we can then be invited to the table as part of the planning for how we can create this community center where we can all work together to support our community.

[1:26:42] Thank you.

[1:26:42] our

[1:26:52] columns again. I've been in a number of times when I've gone up to the

[1:26:56] 60s, I mean they've seen you set us up there when I wife and I and all most of

[1:27:00] all the time we have to park over there in the library and in a couple I'm

[1:27:05] remember this one particular time I'm going across I hit the button of the light

[1:27:09] I'm not walking and this jerk comes whipping by I mean speedy I'm

[1:27:21] But it is dangerous.

[1:27:23] With this place in here, it's going to be easy.

[1:27:25] Precene your scissors is the goal there for the senior center at the 60 club.

[1:27:30] And if you live there, then all you have to do is walk.

[1:27:33] And also, when you got the little playground there, and you've got the senior citizen with

[1:27:37] there on a nice day, they can get out there and sit in there and watch the little boys

[1:27:40] and girls play, maybe big boys and girls play, and stuff like this, and they can,

[1:27:45] and their little kids can enter the actual the senior citizens, and that'd be nice.

[1:27:49] So anyways, I still support this once.

[1:27:54] Part of our thought when we first got to this

[1:27:56] of the mix of the senior center, senior housing, senior center,

[1:28:00] and playground, is there a number of seniors who are also

[1:28:03] their routine daycare for their grandchildren?

[1:28:07] This gives them a place where that can be done.

[1:28:14] Can I just point, is this a song?

[1:28:16] A song?

[1:28:17] Is this a song?

[1:28:18] Oh, it is.

[1:28:20] And you just wanted to note something too.

[1:28:21] So I'm hearing the word community space used a lot right now, and I am sorry that this proposal

[1:28:28] displaces blue fire company, stage company, and as Bob pointed out before, it's not to

[1:28:34] say that we won't have a future home for you.

[1:28:37] Right now, we're definitely in limbo, we're shuffling around, the town has projects going on.

[1:28:44] The school district has projects going on right now, we're in a high school that's so massively

[1:28:48] oversized and underpopulated that we would not get enough money from the state reimbursement

[1:28:56] to renovate it.

[1:28:57] So we're talking about community spaces, but we're a little disproportionate right now.

[1:29:03] You know, we're meeting in the high school auditorium right now, which is not a town of

[1:29:07] Adam building.

[1:29:07] It's an RSD 17 building.

[1:29:10] We're at the mercy of scheduling this building, asking school workers to come in on scum

[1:29:15] vacation to host this for us because we, the town of Adam, do not have a community meeting

[1:29:22] space big enough that can accommodate a large capacity of people with seating that has air

[1:29:29] conditioning. So one of the pros of this HES proposal is that, yes, the multipurpose room,

[1:29:36] the auditorium, or the cafeteria, and whatever you want to call it, it gets renovated into a

[1:29:41] community meeting space. And people say they want to see downtown activity. Well,

[1:29:47] community spaces, you know, right now, it's where we're here. It's eight o'clock at night.

[1:29:52] Night time is when these kind of spaces get used. So I just, I feel like that has gotten lost

[1:29:57] in the shuffle a little bit tonight, you know.

[1:30:00] We're talking about community spaces, but really, this proposal is a community space. It's a transformation.

[1:30:07] And it's shifting groups around a little bit, but that's part of evolution, that's part of change.

[1:30:12] And that's where we are right now. There is a lot happening. There's a lot potential for change.

[1:30:18] And that's why we keep having these information sessions, because as somebody mentioned before, it seems like every time we come to a meeting, there's new information available.

[1:30:26] And yes, as unfortunate as that can be sometimes, that's how these major construction projects

[1:30:33] work.

[1:30:34] They evolve.

[1:30:35] They change, negotiations change, options change, pricing changes.

[1:30:40] So at the end of the day, we are trying as hard as we can to get the information out

[1:30:45] in a timely manner, and that's where we're at.

[1:30:50] So I just wanted to touch on the use of community space.

[1:30:54] As I think Viv said before, there seems to be a lot of us versus them when really at the end of the day this is intended to be a community space for all

[1:31:05] town of Adam, people and groups and ages and so forth.

[1:31:13] Step up to the mic, please, so it's recorded.

[1:31:25] They appreciate that.

[1:31:27] And I guess what we are also hoping is that if this is a yes, if the vote is yes, we would

[1:31:34] like to be part of the conversation, because part of what makes this so difficult for us

[1:31:40] as an organization, as an active nonprofit organization in the towns, is that nobody has ever

[1:31:45] approached us to ask us what do we see in our future, in the towns future, how can we contribute,

[1:31:52] how can we continue? So I would ask that if you know if the vote is a yes in the spirit of

[1:31:58] what you just said which I appreciate the follow through of that being can we please be part of

[1:32:03] those conversations and not be you know sort of like yeah blindsided like we feel very blindsided

[1:32:11] and we have been following we were at the very first meeting that Bill Warner had at HES during COVID

[1:32:16] and we were there as part of those conversations where we heard tons of people say they want

[1:32:22] to be a community center. And, you know, so I'm just saying we have followed all of the informational

[1:32:28] sessions. We've been at all the informational sessions. So it's not that we haven't made efforts,

[1:32:34] but we feel blindsided and we feel not communicated with. So moving forward, we would ask that

[1:32:39] we're part of the conversations about how we can continue to contribute to the community.

[1:32:44] Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah, fair ask.

[1:32:51] So what is going to be in that wing that you guys are saying

[1:32:54] is going to be owned by the town. Do you know exactly what's going to be in there?

[1:32:58] Okay, just a core correction. The whole building will stay owned by the town.

[1:33:03] I know, I just want to make sure it's cleared everybody every time this is mentioned.

[1:33:07] The wing that

[1:33:30] that's the wing we're talking about.

[1:33:34] This was better if you went back to the one where you had the least with the blue and you saw the wing that we were going to have.

[1:33:41] That's what I'm pointing out because I can show you what the internal layout of that

[1:33:45] because I, Scott, I think that's what you're asking.

[1:33:48] If not, I'll go back to you.

[1:33:49] If that's not going to use that space, what's that going to be used for?

[1:33:53] This is the existing multi-purpose role.

[1:33:56] This will be community center activities.

[1:34:00] The green space is a new senior center to replace the one we have.

[1:34:06] The blue space are office space for two town functions that are currently not co-located.

[1:34:12] The registrar, who is located in the fire station number one, they are literally in a storage closet.

[1:34:21] One, I don't think it's the best location, but secondly, the fire department is needing more storage with more OSHA requirements.

[1:34:27] This will move them out of that storage closet down here.

[1:34:30] The second function is the state troopers, our resident state troopers.

[1:34:34] If you don't know, their office is in this building.

[1:34:39] It's not centrally located, so this makes a more central location.

[1:34:44] It's at the old high school right now, right?

[1:34:46] Pardon me?

[1:34:47] It's at the old high school right now, though.

[1:34:49] Yeah, well, this building.

[1:34:50] It's in the actual of the old middle school.

[1:34:53] Right.

[1:34:54] Oh, yeah, this building.

[1:34:55] I'll tell you.

[1:34:56] No, no.

[1:34:56] I'm sorry.

[1:34:58] All right.

[1:34:59] And then what goes on with all the property that's different from that building?

[1:35:03] Like there's more property outside of where Rack is going to rent, right, or your rent, whatever you want to call.

[1:35:10] So what are you going to do with that property?

[1:35:12] That's all going to be recreational use.

[1:35:14] All the way out where you used to have the hay rides and all that stuff, all that.

[1:35:18] You're way beyond me as far as time.

[1:35:21] The school property itself now is nine acres.

[1:35:25] The nine acres will be available, obviously, for the outside of the building of the parking lot,

[1:35:30] prints for recreation. There is also talk we've talked about a BMX pump track being put

[1:35:36] on there, maybe a dog park, maybe a skate park, there are more opportunities back in

[1:35:44] that general area.

[1:35:46] All right, so with that said then what I mean like you talked about the housing and everything,

[1:35:51] what's going for our taxes to make people like me that's single be able to afford to live

[1:35:56] here and not have to move within the next few years.

[1:35:59] Well, this is, we're going to keep dump the money here and there, and this will be a affordable deed restricted affordable seeing your housing.

[1:36:09] Once you restrict someone as a affordable seeing your housing or through a lease agreement, that sets the maximum rent that can be charged.

[1:36:18] That doesn't mean everyone who wants to is going to be able to afford it, but it brings it down below the market rate right now.

[1:36:27] Is that what you're asking Scott?

[1:36:28] tax?

[1:36:29] I was going to affect mine.

[1:36:30] Well, this will bring in 100,000 roughly 100,000 dollars a year, present value, tax revenue

[1:36:36] to the town.

[1:36:37] Will it make a huge difference in your bill?

[1:36:39] No.

[1:36:40] But we've been adding to the tax base with other, with the other apartments, with the health

[1:36:45] center where it used to be merit engineering, an island dock road.

[1:36:50] There's been quite a lot of commercial-style development in town to help spread the tax

[1:36:55] burden.

[1:36:55] But it's a good point and it's something I usually mention when I talk about this, so I'll take advantage of the opportunity now.

[1:37:02] Keep in mind this going with the proposal here is the least costly option that we've got right now to discuss.

[1:37:11] If we keep that building and eventually renovate all of it for whatever use we feel is appropriate.

[1:37:17] And to nazi's estimate, just to bring this building up the current code, this building being the HES.

[1:37:23] Of the current code and replace the aging systems are on the edge of failure.

[1:37:29] It's 20.

[1:37:30] 3 million dollars. That's going to come out of your taxes and some way, show your performance.

[1:37:36] All right. So the other thing, too, is on Facebook, we do not agree with or whatever, there's been an article.

[1:37:42] So we're going to pay a hundred thousand, a hundred and forty thousand dollars or whatever it was.

[1:37:48] Then we have to pay them forty thousand to use this space, right?

[1:37:52] Where's the point? Where do I get it?

[1:37:57] I'm just trying to clarify, Scott, yes, we will pay Rack 140,000 for 10 years, as basically

[1:38:03] as a development fee.

[1:38:05] They're producing for us.

[1:38:07] If we had to remodel this wing, we'd be spending easily $5 million, one estimate for

[1:38:13] Anthony's 10 million dollars.

[1:38:15] So somewhere in that range, we will pay Rack $1.4 million to get that done.

[1:38:21] there's one way to look at it and the other way to look at it though is you're gonna pay them in two and a half years you're gonna

[1:38:29] paid them back what they paid us

[1:38:32] for

[1:38:34] But it's not here so we're gonna lose out money for the rest of the years. We're gonna be paying. Well, yeah, yes

[1:38:39] We're gonna lose out money if we do nothing without wing

[1:38:43] If we change use on this building which we have to do to use it because it's not a school anymore

[1:38:49] It's got to be brought up to current code

[1:38:51] Bringing it up to just bringing it up to current code is going to be a million millions of dollars.

[1:38:56] So if you're going to have a senior citizen senior housing everything there, would you move this town nurse there?

[1:39:03] We don't have a town nurse, Scott.

[1:39:04] She's not in the bottom floor that building anywhere.

[1:39:07] But, over the annex? No, we haven't had a town.

[1:39:10] The town closed its public health function.

[1:39:17] 20, 16-ish. We get all those services now from the chat crowd, the Connecticut River area

[1:39:24] health district. So there is, there's a social service worker in there, social department,

[1:39:29] in the addicts behind the jail. That would stay there. She would stay there. That function

[1:39:34] would stay there.

[1:39:35] Is there a chance that she could be moved to one of those rooms and blue fires stage company

[1:39:40] could get the whole bomber that since we have the little league in the ups and downs?

[1:39:43] Well, the upstairs, no, the upstairs in that building, no, isn't literally entirely, I think

[1:39:48] Lions have some storage up there, but it's primarily the clothing lockers, what I call it,

[1:39:54] where you can, people are donating views, but wearable clothing and you can go in and draw out of that.

[1:40:00] And then what about where we have the town meetings, now the upstairs that building, is that available?

[1:40:06] Upstairs to which?

[1:40:07] Well, we have the town meetings now, in the old stone building.

[1:40:10] Okay, the upstairs of that. No, we own the that building ownership is split equally and that's per square inch between the town and the maisons.

[1:40:21] Both both groups I've access to both parts of it. I don't think the town is ever used a second floor.

[1:40:28] Right, I've never seen anybody use it.

[1:40:29] No, the maisons do use if they meet like every Wednesday or something they have.

[1:40:33] But just once a week.

[1:40:38] Yeah.

[1:40:39] I'm just saying I think there's more we can do for a blue fire stage company with spaces we have available.

[1:40:43] Well, could be, we're going to have the existing community center.

[1:40:47] Are we going to need that for a community center anymore?

[1:40:49] Probably not.

[1:40:50] The existing senior center if we move out.

[1:40:52] Are we going to need that as a senior center?

[1:40:54] Probably not.

[1:40:56] Will there be other options that may come up?

[1:41:02] And Bob, I just like to make a comment about relocating social services entirely.

[1:41:06] entirely that was considered as an option and it was actually requested for them to remain

[1:41:13] where they are. A lot of the services they provide, you know, people who use their services

[1:41:20] would like some privacy and confidentiality and locating a social services usage facility usage

[1:41:28] in the center of town does not really yield confidentiality or privacy. So that is the one major

[1:41:36] reason why social services will remain where they are.

[1:41:47] But we're starting to go with money and let me point this out.

[1:41:52] Keep in mind, this isn't the only, whatever we do with HHS, renovation is going to have

[1:41:58] to happen, bringing up codes going to have to happen sooner or later.

[1:42:01] Keep in mind, that's going to be happening in the same era where K2 may be more up on this

[1:42:08] than I am right now, but the last meeting I went to with the school

[1:42:13] district to talk about what their plan is for dealing with this building and all their

[1:42:18] other buildings. Phase one of the plan which focuses on the high school, it does some things

[1:42:23] in the other remaining schools, but the focus is a high school. Phase one was estimated

[1:42:29] at $164 million. The state will pay half if we're lucky and we'll split the other

[1:42:36] $82 million, $6040 with killing worth.

[1:42:40] That's a couple of mills on your taxes right there.

[1:42:43] In addition to that, our town garage is decrepit.

[1:42:47] It was state of the art.

[1:42:48] Unfortunately, it's the art of 1932 when it was built.

[1:42:52] It is not sufficient for what we need.

[1:42:54] Now, whether we just remodel it where it is on both sides of depot road

[1:42:58] or whether we relocate it somewhere else in town,

[1:43:01] you're looking at for remodeling probably five to seven million if we did it right

[1:43:07] away if we relocate you're looking at seven to ten or maybe twelve now

[1:43:11] you're depending on what the site needs these things are all coming up in the

[1:43:15] near future there's the microphone dear I hate to do it to you but I'm doing

[1:43:19] it to everybody else

[1:43:22] and I'm lying I'm not hating this but I've got to pretend I am

[1:43:27] Tim I have just one quick comment not to throw monkey wrench in the plan it's a

[1:43:33] plan as I said before, and not three hash all of that. But one thing I did think about

[1:43:37] while I was sitting over there listening is at a previous meeting we heard the registrar

[1:43:41] voters, I think two of the fine ladies got up and said that they were a little bit taken

[1:43:46] back that they were going to be relocated to this area and my thought is maybe they don't want

[1:43:52] to relocate and maybe they could stay where they are and maybe blue fire stage company could take

[1:43:56] those rooms that were going to be allocated for the registrar. You're right, and this meeting

[1:44:02] the one of the registrars stood up and said she felt blindsided.

[1:44:06] Frankly, the word just hadn't filtered down, but I met with all of them when we laid

[1:44:10] out what they would like to do if the registrars move here is move the polling place to

[1:44:15] here.

[1:44:16] And what?

[1:44:17] You're meaning here.

[1:44:18] Right.

[1:44:20] That's here.

[1:44:21] Not here here.

[1:44:23] To HES.

[1:44:24] And we talked about that that's certainly doable and with that they were fully, they were supportive

[1:44:30] of the move.

[1:44:32] Would you explain how

[1:44:38] Number two is?

[1:44:40] Number three is, and I guess it's

[1:44:44] Well, number two and three, which are the old part of the building that's being renovated by Rack.

[1:44:53] We are paying them money, the say the figure.

[1:44:57] One point four million over ten years.

[1:44:59] One point.

[1:45:00] Right 4 million over 10 years. They are renovating that portion of the building. That 1.4 million over the 10 years is covering the renovation that they're doing on that part of the building.

[1:45:17] And it's not covering their costs, the rest of me, that will be at least the two, two and

[1:45:22] half million.

[1:45:23] And I,

[1:45:26] you know, four million dollar costs is what they gave me today in estimate.

[1:45:31] So we're getting four million for a minute.

[1:45:33] You're not getting, you're not getting your money's worth.

[1:45:37] They're doing the work on that portion of the building that we don't have to spend money

[1:45:43] to do.

[1:45:44] Correct.

[1:45:45] And that's part of my concern with some of the conversations you see on Facebook.

[1:45:50] The information may be true what they're saying, but it's not complete.

[1:45:54] No one that I have seen in the comment is pointed out that we would pay $4 to $5 million to

[1:46:00] renovate that space.

[1:46:02] We're not going to make that payment.

[1:46:05] You post on Facebook, correct?

[1:46:08] In reply to post, yes?

[1:46:10] And that's where a lot of the information is coming from.

[1:46:13] Which information, Sharon?

[1:46:17] Your latest post about paying the 140 and everything else.

[1:46:23] So people are seeing your figures.

[1:46:26] Right.

[1:46:26] And a lot nodding.

[1:46:31] Okay, I miss the odd nodding.

[1:46:32] It's a reference I don't know.

[1:46:33] The odd nodding, figuring and doing the math.

[1:46:37] So rock is getting 1.4 million from us.

[1:46:41] Correct.

[1:46:42] Over 10 years.

[1:46:44] Correct.

[1:46:45] And they are in a position of making a tremendous amount of money.

[1:46:54] So they're not losing out by doing this.

[1:46:58] And if you did the total building, what is it?

[1:47:04] 12 million, 13 million.

[1:47:07] That is putting into the whole project.

[1:47:09] The rest may probably be about 13 million. I think it'll be a little bit more. But yeah, and that's including the grant correct.

[1:47:16] Okay. So that's not bad for them. They'll be making it.

[1:47:22] They will and their business and you can't expect their business. They're not a charity.

[1:47:27] I don't have a problem with a business making an honest profit.

[1:47:30] Okay. Good. I wish you'd include that a bit more about what they'll be making.

[1:47:37] Well, most of the posts, I'm sorry, I shouldn't interrupt.

[1:47:41] Yep.

[1:47:41] Okay.

[1:47:41] Most of the posts are talking about what a sweet deal rack is getting.

[1:47:45] And they are.

[1:47:45] I don't know, they're getting a good deal.

[1:47:47] I don't know how sweet that is, because I'm not in that business.

[1:47:50] But we advertise this, and 300 companies receive our request for proposal.

[1:47:55] We have three replies, and I invite anybody, because there's been some information on Facebook

[1:48:01] about how the other two were better for us financially.

[1:48:03] I invite anyone to look at all three proposals.

[1:48:06] They've been on our website since April.

[1:48:09] Read what the proposals are asking for.

[1:48:12] One is asking, parented housing is asking for example.

[1:48:16] They talk about pilot program.

[1:48:18] If you're not familiar with that, that's an acronym.

[1:48:20] It's payment and the lift taxes.

[1:48:22] And what they're requesting is about half the tax rate they would pay.

[1:48:26] Another one is asking for tax abatement on a sliding scale.

[1:48:30] And there are other things in the proposal

[1:48:31] that the five of us who reviewed them all felt would be debt for metal.

[1:48:37] So I would say anyone who starts talking about the other proposals being better, I would

[1:48:40] challenge them to say, that's fine, I'm not saying you are, Sharon.

[1:48:44] I'm just to then tell me which proposals you think is best.

[1:48:48] What I'm seeing as the town is going to end up paying 200,000 in the next 10 years for

[1:48:57] maintenance. I mean if it's 50,000 just for the buildings and then we're going to be maintaining

[1:49:04] the outside too. Plus the 140, I mean it's going to be over probably 200,000 that will be

[1:49:12] putting into this. You know, it the 100,000 we're doing right now with it just sitting there

[1:49:23] seems low.

[1:49:26] So there as a community center, if the town could do this, and just do a community

[1:49:34] center and maintain it without a developer. I mean, I think that would be ideal for the community.

[1:49:41] It could be, but again, working the financials. That means we'd be on the heart for the

[1:49:45] roughly 20 million 15 to 20 million.

[1:49:47] What were you just talked about 12 million?

[1:49:50] That's right, talking at private contractor prices.

[1:49:54] The estimate we got from Anthony Nazi for a government job.

[1:49:56] Sharon, please, I let you talk.

[1:49:59] The estimate we got from Anthony Nazi, a respected architectural firm, just to bring the building

[1:50:04] up to code and address the failing systems was 23 million.

[1:50:10] I kind of feel that's high.

[1:50:12] But we'd be paying, even if we pay what rack is proposing, that's $12 million out of the town's coffers.

[1:50:20] And we don't even have developed to use for the whole building.

[1:50:24] I mean, that's one of the first questions you're going to ask should ask when you're looking at remodeling.

[1:50:28] Well, how much of the building do you want to use?

[1:50:31] Because if you're going to use 30,000 square feet instead of 40, you might as well lock off the other tents or you're not heating and cooling them.

[1:50:37] And that's right.

[1:50:38] I mean, the town could, we could.

[1:50:42] We could.

[1:50:44] And we could spend, and my concern is, and this is personal, we have, we don't come to consensus

[1:50:51] readily.

[1:50:52] We spend a lot of time studying, restarting, arguing, re arguing, and then starting the process

[1:50:57] all over again.

[1:50:58] We've done it for years with Rossi.

[1:51:00] Should we buy it or not?

[1:51:01] We finally have made that commitment.

[1:51:03] We did it for years with Scoville.

[1:51:05] What's going to happen?

[1:51:06] We can do it for years for this, but understand you're going to pay a price for doing that.

[1:51:11] So I'm not saying no, don't do that, but understand again the full financials.

[1:51:16] We are going to pay to maintain the grounds regardless of this proposal or if we keep it.

[1:51:23] There are costs.

[1:51:24] Pick which ones you want to spend.

[1:51:31] And on that same note, Rack isn't asking for a tax break.

[1:51:35] No, they are an MVP and property tax on the part of the building they are leasing.

[1:51:39] Correct. Where if we were to spend $25 million as suggested, we collect no property tax and we're out 25 million.

[1:51:48] Yeah, or 10 or 15 whatever costs. Yes, that's very true. This would still not generate tax if it's total municipal use.

[1:51:54] That's what I thought. Thank you. You're welcome.

[1:51:56] And the maintenance costs would not go away.

[1:51:59] Yeah.

[1:52:11] We seem to be going over the same points a couple of times. Does anyone have any new questions or comments to add?

[1:52:17] Certainly, lad.

[1:52:25] just enclosing that we get to the end of this. This plan, I just want to...

[1:52:30] I remind all the residents, owners of this project, meets the requirements of the POCD. It responds to the concerns of the citizens, through all the comments, shirats and studies that we've done.

[1:52:46] And with our research, it meets the fiscal responsibility that we need to have as owners for this.

[1:52:58] And it allows us to maybe vacate some other areas and help my blue fire find other spaces.

[1:53:08] Nobody here is against that.

[1:53:10] It's just for this building to operate we have to take care of the whole building.

[1:53:15] And finally, in closing, this town has 6,000 31 registered voters, and I urge everybody who

[1:53:26] gets to see this to come and vote.

[1:53:29] Yes, or no, I don't really care, but I want you to come and vote.

[1:53:35] We don't get enough town participation here, and our last couple of referendums and

[1:53:43] And so on, the voting turnout is very, very small.

[1:53:48] Please, spread the word, get everybody out and vote.

[1:53:53] We really, it's a town ownership.

[1:53:56] We all own a piece of this thing, and we need to take responsibility for that and think

[1:54:02] about where we're going as we go into the future.

[1:54:05] I'm an old guy, and I've got younger generations that live in this town.

[1:54:10] This is about where it's going in the next 30 or 40 years, not in the next 5 or 10.

[1:54:17] And hopefully their generations after that will follow suit and help make how to a better place to live.

[1:54:24] But we have to take action.

[1:54:27] And absence of any other plan, this is the plan on the table that meets the requirements that the town put together

[1:54:35] through the POCD and through comments that we all voted for and supported.

[1:54:41] So hopefully we get a good turning of vote turn out and a good response to the application

[1:54:49] we put forth with respect to HES.

[1:54:51] Thank you.

[1:54:53] Again, the polling is Tuesday the 23rd at your normal voting location, six in the morning

[1:54:58] eight o'clock at night, please come vote.

[1:55:02] Thank you all for coming.

Haddam Elementary School Information Session pt 4 - July 10 2024

Transcript