[0:01] Good evening, everyone. There we go. At this time, I call the order. This is the City of Portage Planning Commission.

[0:09] And it is Thursday, August 6, 2020. At this time, if you're able, we would stand for the pledge of allegiance.

[0:33] All

[0:35] right, thank you all very much. Next, I don't want to agenda will be the roll call.

[0:41] I'm going to start with chair recording here.

[0:45] Vice chair Baldwin.

[0:47] Mr. Urban.

[0:49] Mr. Adam's.

[0:51] Mr. Cap will be absence tonight.

[0:54] Mr. Orwig.

[0:55] Here.

[0:56] Secretary Cociste will be absence tonight.

[0:59] Commissioner Miller.

[1:01] Mr. Crowell.

[1:02] Here.

[1:04] Mr. Chair.

[1:05] Yes, ma'am.

[1:05] I'd like to make a motion to excuse to mention your calves and curses still for the lights meeting.

[1:13] We didn't hear from them, so

[1:20] motion made and second to excuse our two commissioners.

[1:24] All those in favor say aye.

[1:26] Aye.

[1:27] Anyone opposed?

[1:29] All right.

[1:29] Next item our agenda would be our approval of minutes and this would be from our July 16th.

[1:37] 2026 meeting.

[1:39] Would there any comments or discussions or additions or deletions?

[1:46] Move to approve.

[1:49] Motion made and supported to approve the minutes then from the July 16th meeting. All those in favor say aye.

[1:57] I want to pose. All right. Motion passes. All right. First item on our agenda this evening is a special land use permit and site plan for establishing a pet crematorium at 9 3 4 0.

[2:11] Shavorode is sweet B, pardon me as yours, Mr. Felt.

[2:17] Thank you, everyone.

[2:20] Good evening for the record. My name is Eric Felt,

[2:22] Planner with the City of Portage.

[2:33] As the chair indicated, the proposal in front of you,

[2:36] is a special anis permitted site plan for establishing a pet

[2:39] crematorium located at 9340 Shavorode in sweet B.

[2:44] The property is located on the west side of Shavorode,

[2:46] south of Vanderbilt, Avenue.

[2:49] It is located next to various industrial developments.

[2:54] To the south, there is a vacant industrial building to the further south, there is a daycare

[3:00] center.

[3:01] To the west, there is a PMV painting, SLS, production services, as well as houses to the

[3:10] north.

[3:13] The greater neighborhood consists of variety of zoning districts.

[3:16] The subject site is zoned I1 light industrial to the north in red is B3 general commercial

[3:23] and to the east of Shaver Road is zoned I2 heavy industrial.

[3:30] Looking at various pictures of the property, this is from Shaver Road looking at the front of the building.

[3:36] You can see the various drives split.

[3:40] One goes to the north into the south of the subject building.

[3:43] As you get closer to the front of the building, there are various parking spaces.

[3:47] As you head to the south and then looking at the southern elevation you can see the three

[3:55] sweet to the building, sweet A in the front, the subject sweet B in the middle and sweet C to the

[4:00] rear.

[4:03] As you move to the north side of the property you can tell that there's a driveway that

[4:08] leads to the back, the chainlick fence and white building to the right of the screen are properties

[4:14] to the north. As you move further west along the drive, the two large garage

[4:22] base are of the back part of suite B that I'll show in various floor layouts. As you move

[4:29] to the very back of the building, this is suite C, your additional loading base.

[4:36] So this

[4:36] is looking at the southern elevation of the building. You can see that the parking and

[4:41] circulation is seamlessly connected to the site to the immediate south.

[4:46] There are various parking spaces directly to the right of the white building.

[4:54] Looking at the site plan, the property lines are shown in the approximate of black dotted lines.

[5:03] You can see the building layout with a suite, a to the right.

[5:08] The middle suite is the proposed suite for the Pat Crematory, and then the back suite is occupied for a laser cutting business called four beams laser.

[5:20] As you zoom into the subject suite, the front entrance is on the bottom of the screen, you walk into an office. There is a small restroom to the left.

[5:29] As you continue walking forward, there are additional offices and the majority of the back of the space is devoted to the Cremitation.

[5:36] Commission area. The two garage doors will be used by staff to transport the cease pets into the

[5:44] commission area. There are steps shown in the right behind the additional offices. Those go up to

[5:51] a small second area, second floor area for storage.

[5:58] Looking at the review standards applicable to

[6:00] this project, it does require a special land use permit under the special land use category for the

[6:08] one light industrial uses it falls under what is described as other uses similar to and not more

[6:15] objection well than the uses permitted in this industrial district. So tonight's actions are

[6:23] voting on the specialainees permit as well as the site plan review.

[6:30] General Staff's analysis is

[6:32] at the proposed use is permitted in the i1 district with those two applications as I mentioned before.

[6:38] There is an existing site plan on file, part of that was shown on the previous slides,

[6:45] so a staff does not require a new drawing for this proposal.

[6:49] It will reoccupy and exist in space. All operations are indoors,

[6:54] and it will utilize existing parking lots and access drives.

[6:58] All traffic and parking will be generally contained within the site.

[7:04] Between an industrial use and residential use, a buffer is required.

[7:08] According to Section 42, 573C, the buffer shell consists of a general green strip, more or less

[7:17] grass, containing a six foot tall privacy fence and trees.

[7:23] This is a new use, so therefore it triggers compliance with this buffer standard.

[7:29] Staff recommends installing and providing this buffer standard, and it has been communicated

[7:34] with the applicant.

[7:36] As a business generally will process deceased pets, it will release some amount of emissions.

[7:45] The applicant has supplied various drawings and detailed analysis of the proposed

[7:53] Crematory Equipment as well as testing of a different site using the same proposed equipment.

[8:00] So in the packet, you will see that the equipment will meet or exceed the nationally accepted

[8:06] incinerator construction standards as originally established for the incinerator

[8:11] institute of America, publication guidelines.

[8:15] The city in order to build a code has specific emissions standards for this type of

[8:19] use.

[8:22] While reach out to the Kalamazoo County, they had informed staff that the state, Department

[8:30] of environmental great lakes and energy does indeed require an air quality and emission

[8:36] license through the air quality division, so that has also been communicated with the

[8:42] applicant.

[8:45] Staff recommends conditions of this project to meet the Northern Buffer as

[8:50] well as submit a state-approved emission license.

[8:56] With these two proposed conditions, the

[8:58] overall proposal meets a special venues permit and site plan standards.

[9:05] The development review team is a group of city staff,

[9:09] making up of the utility department, transportation,

[9:14] engineering, planning, as well as others, who reviews this project

[9:19] among other site plans and special venues proposals.

[9:23] In addition to the two conditions, as I mentioned,

[9:25] And the DRT group does not recommend any other changes to this proposal.

[9:32] With every special venues permit, it does require meeting public notice standards, which

[9:38] have been met by publishing in the Gazette Kalamazoo Gazette as well as distributing

[9:44] a residential maillers to every property owner and occupant within 300 feet of the site.

[9:49] Furthermore, it also requires participation with the or public participation plan where the applicant was required to inform adjacent properties of this project and that has been addressed.

[10:05] As of today, staff has not received any public comment on this proposal.

[10:11] With that, staff's recommendation is based on the above analysis and subject to any additional information

[10:18] brought before the commission during the public hearing staff recommends, the special

[10:22] ladies permit and site plan for establishing a pet crematory at 9340 Shaver Road, be approved

[10:28] with the following conditions. One, submittal of an updated site plan showing a buffer meeting

[10:33] section 42-573 and to the middle of a copy of an eagle-approved license.

[10:42] With that, the applicant is here to answer any questions you may have.

[10:47] I recommend holding all questions until after you provide an opportunity for the public

[10:52] to speak.

[10:53] Then I would be happy to answer any questions after that.

[10:56] Thank you.

[10:57] Thank you, Mr. Felt.

[10:59] Like you said, at this time, if the applicant is here this evening, and would like to come forward,

[11:07] you'd like to just give us your name and address, and if you have any other additional information

[11:11] that you would like to add to it.

[11:14] My name is Heather DePorest, and my address is, you want the actual house address.

[11:23] Okay, 58105 interlake in Street, Matawan, Michigan, 49071.

[11:33] This is a franchise that I invested in about a year and a half ago, so it's not like

[11:39] I'm starting from scratch, either with no,

[11:47] you know, like there's a book that I have to

[11:49] follow and things so there's already procedures in place that I have to also, I will have

[11:54] help it's a established brand.

[11:58] There are already two in Michigan.

[11:59] One is in La Vonia, and one is in Orian Lake Orian area.

[12:06] So it has been proven to be successful in those spots.

[12:12] And I'm passionate about it.

[12:14] I think it'd be a really great thing to add to Kalamazoo.

[12:18] And great for pet owners.

[12:21] It's a little bit more personal than what we have now.

[12:24] I think because I've looked into it and there just aren't very many personal options right now

[12:30] And but there won't be, it's like people are going to be coming there all the time

[12:33] It's going to be mostly picking up. So I'll be going to

[12:37] I'll have a van that is going to be wrapped in pet passages is what it's called

[12:43] And I'll most be going to people's homes and picking up their animals and bringing them

[12:47] Then we will have a spot if someone doesn't want to bring their animal in one of those offices

[12:52] will be a dedicated room space for them to mourn their pets or say goodbye of sorts if they

[12:59] prefer to do that. I don't know if you have questions for me. I personally don't do any of the

[13:08] commissioners have any questions? Yes sir. What questions would I have to protect technology

[13:12] in me, but I found a neighbor in the window is calling my direction. What is that?

[13:17] I do have a letter

[13:19] from Keller who's the manufacturer of the machine and they are actually they will be the

[13:25] ones handling the missions for me so they actually will take care of big contact the state

[13:30] and they do all that so I don't even have to do that they take care of that before I will make

[13:36] they make sure I have that's part of the contract that I have with them but when I did reach out

[13:41] to them and ask them about stuff because I've looked into other spaces and that's obviously a

[13:47] for a lot of people. And I can just, I will read the email that they told me, the Keller, who

[13:55] has it, and it says, the machine will vent through the roof via the exhaust stack on the machine.

[14:01] There may be a little smoke out of the top of the exhaust stack at the beginning of the

[14:05] cremation cycle, but we'll only last a few seconds. The machine is extremely clean, burning,

[14:11] and much cleaner than any car on the road. There will be no smell, et cetera, that will be

[14:17] committed or noticed by adjacent tenants. I can't stress enough about how clean these

[14:23] machines burn.

[14:27] So, and that's from the manufacturer, that's Peller.

[14:31] Thank you.

[14:33] Are there any other questions for the applicant?

[14:35] First, I apologize both our community development director.

[14:40] I got caught by a stop train and the Wessonage detour.

[14:43] so we had to make something of a expedition around.

[14:50] And I apologize, I don't know what was said earlier.

[14:52] Have you talked about the Eagle Permette required at all?

[14:56] It was brought up.

[14:57] It was brought up.

[14:58] I'm honored.

[15:00] Presentation. I understand you weren't aware of that originally. Is that true?

[15:06] No, I am. It's something that Keller takes care of.

[15:10] All right. It's kind of like our staff had to inform you of that.

[15:16] Oh, no, I didn't know. I knew from.

[15:19] Oh, that's okay. No, I knew even from the franchise owned the one that created the franchise.

[15:27] they have notified me and then as soon as Keller doesn't go through that process until I have

[15:34] a least in place because they don't know where I'm going to do it here at Grand Rapids so

[15:38] they just wait until. The one thing that I didn't find in the documents was how tall the exhaust

[15:46] stack was, the smoke stack, if you will. I don't know, I just have the, I don't have that with me,

[15:54] but all the machine, everything that I sent in is the exact.

[15:59] Yeah, there was one photograph I think of,

[16:02] it may have been of an installation somewhere else.

[16:04] It wasn't real clear to me whether it was the one you're getting or not.

[16:10] I don't know whether it's clear to other commissioners or not.

[16:13] I just wondered whether it was,

[16:15] just barely through the roof to the height of the peak,

[16:18] whether it was 20 feet tall, whether, you know, whether.

[16:21] I believe it is whatever building, if I go on this building, I believe it's very

[16:27] have to build something for it to go to the roof, because I could also have it

[16:35] vented out of the side of a wall if I didn't have that type of space.

[16:40] So it can that sideways?

[16:46] They just, Keller just has to know, so my machine isn't completely finished.

[16:50] I understand, you don't need to get details.

[16:54] I'm just trying to get an idea of the exhaust temperature

[16:58] and the smoke stack requirements for most residential

[17:04] things that aren't high efficiency.

[17:09] It's something like a couple feet above the peak,

[17:12] I think, or something, I don't know what anybody in here

[17:14] is a contractor.

[17:16] But the one that I saw a picture of looked like it was five, six feet diameter or more and looked very large and industrial.

[17:29] And I'm having a little trouble with my computer getting it up here to find that photograph again.

[17:34] I was trying to figure out whether that was,

[17:38] and I think the intent was it to be if,

[17:41] yeah, this thing's not right.

[17:43] I think the intent was to be,

[17:46] is you're fine.

[17:46] Can you find that photo there?

[17:50] All right. I just, I was just,

[17:52] check page.

[17:52] It was a very large.

[17:54] We don't page 32, is that what you're looking at?

[17:57] Look like this.

[17:59] Yeah.

[17:59] That's on page 32 of our packet.

[18:01] Yeah, I can't, I can't get my, there we go.

[18:04] Thank you.

[18:14] This is, yeah, thank you.

[18:17] That's what I was looking at.

[18:24] And...

[18:24] That that's a...

[18:26] Yeah, that's an outside stream of touring.

[18:29] Yeah, this will all be inside.

[18:31] Okay.

[18:32] It wasn't clear to me what that was.

[18:36] And if you can venture this sidewall,

[18:40] it's got to be much cleaner than whatever that's representing probably.

[18:43] because then through the sidewall is fairly low temperature and high efficiency.

[18:52] You see that I see that I see that.

[18:55] I see that.

[18:55] No, it's okay.

[18:57] I have gone to the one in LaVonia and before I invested in the franchise, I can't tell you

[19:07] I recall what it looked like.

[19:09] I did go in the warehouse, but I can't recall what it looked like from the outside.

[19:13] It was a very top, but it was a tall building as well because they're also in a, it's a building with a couple different suites and one is an HVAC.

[19:26] Their neighbors HVAC system.

[19:29] But yeah, I program a sec.

[19:32] I'm not sure if that's the exact one, but this is just, does it say it's for?

[19:44] that's all for now. Thank you. That was really nice.

[19:54] But there are any other questions from any other commissioners for the applicant?

[19:57] I have one. If you have a pet that you've cremated and no one wants the remains, what are you

[20:05] going to do with those remains?

[20:09] That I know that they have something in place with the franchise,

[20:12] but I don't recall what that, what their what their policy. So Keller has a plan.

[20:18] No, that would be pet passages does okay. So Keller is the manufacture of the machine only

[20:24] But pet passages is actually the franchise and I know that there is an option to

[20:31] not keep your not keep three mains

[20:34] person like or if you don't want to do the private option or the semi-private option and if people

[20:41] or like several people don't mind their pets are cremated together and if they don't want to take them

[20:48] I don't remember what I don't know. Sorry, I could find that information out.

[20:57] Yeah,

[21:01] never, I didn't think about that.

[21:03] That's okay.

[21:06] Yes, sir.

[21:07] So, you saw the one in the morning, and did you hear it? How loud?

[21:16] I'm going to be honest. I saw it last March.

[21:19] So it would have been in, not 2026 and 2025 because it's been a long process and it wasn't that loud to me, but I would just be saying, you know, I mean, I just, I don't recall.

[21:34] Yeah, like, and they showed me and was like very safe. They have two machines there actually.

[21:41] They don't, I don't remember it being warm enough that they said they don't use heat in that room a lot because it's sustainable heat, but it was not very loud at all.

[21:51] Like even in the so in the back, which is what you can't hear it from the front.

[21:58] Like if you're in the office area with a customer, maybe you're meeting someone you can't hear the machine in the back.

[22:04] I do recall that.

[22:14] Any other questions?

[22:18] Well thank you very much.

[22:21] All right. This evening, this is a public hearing. So at this time, I will open a public hearing that there's anyone in the audience that would like to come forward to

[22:31] have anything to say regarding

[22:32] this agenda item.

[22:35] All right. See, and no one, then I will accept the motion to close the public hearing. Some of

[22:42] Motion made and supported to close the public hearing. All those in favor say hi. Hi. Anyone opposed? All right.

[22:49] public hearing is officially closed, any additional questions for city staff or

[22:57] anything that came up? Yes sir. The question for staff. Are the houses a medially adjacent

[23:01] to the property occupied?

[23:08] I don't know, so one way of determining it's hard to determine occupancy.

[23:15] One source is to reach out to the assessing department to see if it is a 100% use for a primary residence.

[23:29] If the answer is yes, that doesn't necessarily guarantee occupancy.

[23:35] If it's 0% PRE, meaning that it's not a primary, that still doesn't mean that it's occupied.

[23:46] I mean, it could be occupied by a rental or by anyone, or no one at all.

[23:51] So we don't have a very reliable point of source sets as whether or not a house is occupied at a given time.

[24:01] And they were notified,

[24:05] hearing him, though.

[24:05] Yes.

[24:08] Yes, sir.

[24:20] That's correct.

[24:22] I'd like to ask you a question that is like,

[24:24] yeah, it's a buffer for the result.

[24:43] So it's the use that would trigger the buffer,

[24:46] the responsibility would be up to the to whomever,

[24:52] the property owner would apply it to,

[24:56] that city would generally apply it

[24:58] the building permit of the proposed use and thus the improvement would need to be installed

[25:09] and inspected prior to occupancy of the new use.

[25:16] Though there's no occupants in the suite A, which is a front use, there is an occupant in

[25:23] and back use, sweet sea that used, generally did not trigger the buffer.

[25:34] So, it's more of a manufacturing type use, and this is a very different use from the previous

[25:42] use.

[25:44] So, I think what he's saying is a change of use triggers, compliance with all new or applicable

[25:50] zoning ordinances at the time.

[25:52] So, this is a change of use from industrial manufacturing to something else, a little bit different.

[25:59] And because of that, it triggered a kicked in the requirement for the new landscaping requirement.

[26:04] And it would be up to the applicant to decide whether she works at out with her landlord or whomever.

[26:11] But as part of her proposed special land use in site plan or this land use, it will generate or trigger that requirement.

[26:19] So, however they handle it between her and her landlord, as Mr. Feld said, if this is approved

[26:27] with that condition, she will not be able to get her a certificate of occupancy until

[26:31] that's either installed or bonded for whichever time that, you know, if it's wintertime

[26:36] we can't install.

[26:37] So, we usually bond.

[26:38] If that makes sense.

[26:43] Thank you. Yes, sir. One more question. Does the fire department need to sign off on equipment that's going to be burning quite hot.

[26:54] So the fire department review would be part of the building permit process.

[26:58] Okay. So if approval is given tonight, then the overall review moves to the next step, which is the building permit review step.

[27:06] Got it. Okay.

[27:10] Any other questions?

[27:13] I would just like to say, you know, about the places that you

[27:16] probably could have found in Portage. It is a very good location considering, you know, in the

[27:24] buffer with the residents, there'd be only a couple of houses right there in Shave a road in one

[27:29] and Vanderbilt. I believe everything else you're surrounded by industrial, so daycare to the

[27:39] I like it. I think it's a good plan.

[27:44] At this time done, whatever the wish of the commission.

[27:48] Yes, sir.

[27:49] Make a motion through the special and use permit and site plan for the program at any free boardy.

[27:59] I'll second that.

[28:01] You may want to just add the, I know it's not any to cheat sheet, but you might want to add the two conditions.

[28:07] There you were into the motion.

[28:11] You got to read stuff.

[28:13] You got to read stuff.

[28:17] Some little of an update on site.

[28:19] I'm showing the marker.

[28:20] I think it's 40 to five.

[28:23] We'll copy this two.

[28:26] Just like out.

[28:29] Just start.

[28:30] All right, he's still support.

[28:31] All right.

[28:32] Motion made.

[28:33] Motion supported.

[28:35] All those in favor say hi.

[28:37] Hi.

[28:38] Anyone opposed?

[28:40] All right.

[28:40] motion passes. Congratulations.

[28:46] Second item on our agenda this evening would be the

[28:52] excuse me additional accessory building space request to expand an accessory poll barn at 586 East Oster

[29:00] Hout Avenue Mr. felt all your sir.

[29:08] Thank you commissioner chair.

[29:14] Subject site is located along the east side of James way, a private street which connects to East

[29:21] or how avenue to the north. You can see a Gornneck Lake on the map to the further south east.

[29:29] Approaching the property, James Way is the only connection to the subject property.

[29:35] As I mentioned, it is a private street. You can see there are a variety of natural vegetation along both sides of the street.

[29:44] It's a relatively narrow road as well.

[29:46] As you turn into the property, the property has a paved driveway, also containing a large perimeter area of trees, as well as other natural vegetation.

[30:00] As you enter the property, you can see the front of the house to garage bays, and then as you turn to the north, the recently installed pull barn, which is the subject structure of today's project.

[30:16] The various pictures are of the areas around the pull barn, so this is looking north. You can see the Jason single-family house to the north, through the trees. You can see recent dirt work where the applicant has leveled some property.

[30:30] some land around the pole barn. This is looking at the back of the pole barn you can tell that

[30:37] topography drops as you had a south.

[30:43] Here's an over head view of the property. The proper lines are

[30:48] shown in black approximate location. The pole barn is approximately 113 feet away from James' way.

[30:56] 63 feet to the north and approximately 117 feet away from the property to the east.

[31:09] The proposal in front of you is to add essentially two lean two wings on the existing pull barn.

[31:18] So the pull barn is 30 feet wide by 51 feet deep.

[31:23] Each wing would be 10 feet wide and 51 feet deep.

[31:28] It would generally be open on the ends to allow a carry-through of either a law and equipment or just general circulation.

[31:40] I'm not going to read all of this to you.

[31:43] But through the zoning code section 42, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, subsection B, 1, lowercase B, 3,

[31:48] It allows a applicant who is occupies a property of greater than two acres in size to ask for additional building accessory building space to the commission.

[32:01] The commission will generally review the characteristics of the property in the neighborhood and determine degrees of any impacts as well as appropriateness of the additional accessory building area.

[32:18] area. So looking at the existing building sizes and then later the proposed building size.

[32:28] So generally an accessory building space allowed meant for a property is based on the size of the house.

[32:35] For a house containing two levels, we use the main level area plus half of the second floor. So in this

[32:43] case it's 2,472 so that is a baseline of the maximum allot accessory building space for

[32:50] this property. There is an existing attach garage and the detach pull barn while those

[32:58] were shown in pictures. You add those two sizes. It comes up to 2,554 square feet leaving

[33:06] So, 418 square feet of additional accessory building space, the owner can utilize.

[33:17] The proposal is 1,020 square feet, which means that it exceeds the maximum allowed accessory

[33:24] building size by 600 and 2 square feet.

[33:28] This is the additional area that the applicant is asking the commission to approve.

[33:36] So in summary, staffs analysis concluded that the proposed pull barn as well as the addition of the lean tubes would be located far from adjacent houses and streets.

[33:49] Certainly you can see the house to the north.

[33:50] That will be that buffer area will be more visible during the late fall, winter, early spring.

[34:01] During the rest of the season, as we are in today, that buffer will be lessen.

[34:10] Over time, as the spec that buffer will be even further lessened since the applicant recently did some clearing.

[34:19] in the area behind the pull barn.

[34:24] So overall, the lot is heavily forested, as well as adjacent lots.

[34:29] The proposed pull barn, as I mentioned, will be visible during

[34:33] some times of the season unless visible during others due to the majority of the trees

[34:38] in the area being deciduous.

[34:42] The adjacent parcels are similarly developed with large acreage,

[34:47] single-family homes and accessory buildings.

[34:51] This type of proposal does require public notice,

[34:55] which has been addressed through public communication,

[34:58] Kalamazoo Gazette, as well as sending out residential mailers.

[35:03] The applicant has informed adjacent

[35:06] operators of the proposal and do not receive any comments

[35:09] as of today's date, staff, and not receive any comments either.

[35:15] In conclusion, if no additional public comment is requested by, in the Commission is supportive of the larger proposed accessory building, staff recommends the additional 6002 square feet of space at 586 East Ostrout have new be approved.

[35:31] With that, I welcome accepting any questions. After public hearing is provided, the applicant is here. If you have any questions for him. Thank you.

[35:41] Thanks, sir.

[35:43] Like Mr. Felsad, if the applicant is here this evening, and would like to come forward.

[35:49] You'd like to give us your name and address.

[35:54] Good evening, my name is Sai, and the address is 586 East Post for how to have a new portage.

[36:04] Do you have anything else you wanted to add or was pretty self-explanatory?

[36:09] Yes, sir.

[36:09] I mean, it's just adding the E-2 to my existing pull-barn,

[36:13] and it would be open on the sides, and you know,

[36:15] I've just to store my additional, you know,

[36:21] a problem, any garden stuff, and then, you know,

[36:24] tractors and stuff like that.

[36:27] Yes.

[36:27] Are there, I didn't want to call it that.

[36:31] Are there any questions from any of the commissioners

[36:34] for the applicant?

[36:37] Yes, you're Chairman.

[36:38] Yes, sir.

[36:39] My one concern is if

[36:47] this was more developed or wasn't as shielded, you essentially have

[36:54] 10 by however long it was for your 50 feet of stuff on two sides, visible to all

[37:03] your neighbors.

[37:03] I think if you're in a

[37:09] more normal development, my guess is that you'd be running into a

[37:15] blight ordinance somewhere.

[37:18] Again, it's a matter of your story stuff outside where it's visible and a lot of stuff,

[37:23] if you feel both of those mean toes.

[37:27] If they had sidewalls on them, I wouldn't have any issue at all.

[37:30] I mean, I don't mind putting in a sidewall if that's a need of the hour, but the only reason I don't want to put in a sidewall is all the posts are going to be eight feet apart.

[37:41] So if I do have to access something, I wouldn't have to get all the way down and I don't have to empty it to the entrance of it, rather I could just scoot out from the sides and just get it out.

[37:51] It's a sum if it could be sliding doors or something.

[37:57] I don't know whether I'm in a position to impose that condition or want to impose that condition.

[38:03] Your blood is not in a normal neighborhood or whatever.

[38:09] If you see my concern.

[38:11] No, I understand what you're saying is, you know, piles of lumber, piles of whatever, two or three boats that don't work.

[38:19] I'm not saying you're going to do this, but you understand.

[38:22] I absolutely understand what you said. We do have, we do have things that address stuff stored outside.

[38:36] I'm not saying you're going to rise to that level or anything, but that's my concern about these being open sighted.

[38:44] So if you look at the building, I don't have a picture act right now, but

[38:49] but the side that's more towards the James way or rather the face of the James way, I'm

[38:54] planning on putting on cover on the side that could be visible or could have access to others

[39:00] because I'm building a retaining wall right in adjacent to it. So I wouldn't have much of access to

[39:04] getting anything around it. But the one that faces more towards our friends or probably through the

[39:09] house, I would want to keep that open because that wouldn't be visible to the public either.

[39:13] So,

[39:18] yeah, again, I raise it as a concern to see if any of my other commissioners have a

[39:24] fellow commissioners have a concern.

[39:26] I'm not going to try to impose a condition on it.

[39:33] It does, like I said, a little different circumstances, and it wouldn't have to be a whole lot different.

[39:42] I might want to discuss it more.

[39:44] But I do have a question while the audience up here for us.

[39:53] They often, and I meant to get this question to you before, and I didn't.

[39:58] And maybe Mr. Dame knows this better than Mr. Phil.

[40:05] Properties of this size are allowed to have forces. Is that correct?

[40:08] And is that still true?

[40:10] I would have to look in the zone and code to see what the minimum acreage is for how

[40:15] the horse.

[40:17] I know that if you want to have more horses require additional acreage, but there is a minimum

[40:24] starting acreage.

[40:26] I don't have that in front of me.

[40:27] My computer is working.

[40:28] I would have looked it up.

[40:29] I think it's two acres.

[40:32] This looks an awful lot like a horse barn.

[40:37] Stalls on two sides lower and a halo off the center, I'll down the middle, I'm familiar with some that look like that.

[40:47] Do you have any intent on?

[40:48] No, you know.

[40:49] I mean, if you're from doing it anyway, I don't think.

[40:53] No, I don't.

[40:54] No, I would love to have horses, but right now I don't have the time to do that.

[40:59] So, it's not for horses.

[41:00] it's just to store my additional stuff. And as I mentioned, more of a safety concern that I could

[41:06] cover the side that's facing more to where it's a James way and and and as you suggested,

[41:12] but the other side I would rather keep it open because I have more access to get stuff out

[41:16] and I don't have to empty out something from something in the front in order to get something in the

[41:27] questions. Yes, Mr. Felt. So, Mr. Erwin is correct to that. A minimum of two acres of land

[41:35] is required for the first horse and one additional acre of land is required for each additional

[41:42] horse.

[41:45] How many acres do you have? 4.35. But that's what the easement and as he mentioned

[41:52] the James Way, it's the certain amount of easement as we residents have to give it out for the road.

[41:58] So, the property ahead of us have done the same and we do it the same and the property for the down is done the same.

[42:06] Including that and barring that maybe we might lose around 0.3 acres in the easement and so it's at least a four acre lot.

[42:16] Well, if you decide.

[42:17] But I can assure you we need to decide to get a couple horses. Let me know. I'll live right around the corner for me.

[42:21] Sounds good to me.

[42:22] All

[42:26] right. Any other questions? All right. Well, thank you, sir. I appreciate it. Thank you.

[42:33] All right. This is a public hearing. So at this time, I will open a public hearing. If anyone into audience wanted to come forward and see a no one, then I will accept the motion to close the public hearing.

[42:46] It's all moved.

[42:47] Or motion made and supported to close the public hearing,

[42:51] all those in favor say aye.

[42:53] Aye.

[42:54] Anyone opposed?

[42:55] All right.

[42:57] The wish of the commission, Mr. Adams?

[42:59] I have a question for Attorney Kaufman.

[43:02] Is it commonplace for municipalities to count attached

[43:05] garages as part of the accessory building calculation?

[43:10] If it's common if it's attached to counted as part of an

[43:14] accessory, okay, so that I imagine that's what you're doing here, but this is this is an additional

[43:21] detached building, right? I would change the calculation though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No generally

[43:25] that most places do count even if it's attached to the building, they'll count it as an accessory,

[43:30] because it's not livable. If that makes sense. Yeah, it does on somewhat.

[43:38] Sure.

[43:43] I just want to say before we moved to vote, I know the street that you live on, it's a beautiful

[43:48] little area, I think quiet.

[43:52] So maybe three months out of the year when the leaves are off the trees, people can see you,

[43:57] but they can choose not to look at it.

[44:01] It's like actually a little bit of a good piece of property back there.

[44:16] I think I actually looked at this house to buy about 15 years ago,

[44:29] no one I can't read.

[44:30] I don't have my classes on it.

[44:33] Make a most recommended city council approve the additional accessory space proposed

[44:39] tax garage in 40, all right that's the wrong one. I'm sorry,

[44:48] I moved to approve the additional

[44:49] accessory building space request to expand accessory pole barn at 586 East Oster out

[44:55] out of there. I apologize.

[44:59] Motion.

[45:00] Mayed, and supported all those in favor say aye. Anyone opposed? All right, motion passes, congratulations.

[45:09] You bet you buddy. All right, next item agenda this evening is an accessory building request for additional accessory space to be to a proposed detached garage at 4430 Vanderbilt Avenue.

[45:31] Thank you, Commissioner Chair.

[45:39] Subject properties located on the north side of Vanderbilt Avenue near the intersection of Angling Road as you can see on the map.

[45:47] To the further west is Highway 131. To the south is the state.

[45:53] Game refuge.

[45:54] So looking at the property off of Vanderbilt Avenue, the house is located somewhat near the street.

[46:03] very open in that area. You can see the subject garage. The applicant did not realize that a

[46:10] permit was needed before constructing the garage. The applicant is well aware of permits applicable

[46:17] for this garage now. Looking slightly to the north, there's a single family house. You can see the edge

[46:27] of the lawn of the subject property, ends with a fence, various trees in the area, also exists.

[46:36] Turning now looking to the south, you can see buildings to the back side of the subject property

[46:42] as it slopes down towards a wetland and then there is a structure much further south sort of

[46:50] deep in the photograph. So going into the property, this is now looking

[46:56] north, the land slowly rises and then ends in some various vegetation of trees.

[47:06] The proper line is in that space. You can see there is a concrete driveway to the west in front

[47:15] of the house as well as the detached garage and then a gravel driveway leading to the back of

[47:22] property. So now this is looking south towards the side of the proposed garage and house

[47:30] Vanderbilt Road is behind those structures. You can tell that the land drops towards the street.

[47:38] Here is a front of the subject pull barn or garage excuse me. The garage side wall is

[47:45] feed away from the house that is code minimum.

[47:51] The setback is measured instead of from the

[47:54] eve, it's measured from the exterior element of the sidewalk. So here is a back of the garage.

[48:01] Now moving deeper into the property, heading east, there are three existing

[48:08] accessory buildings. This is one of them moving further deeper into the property. You can see the second

[48:17] third buildings. Here's a front of the second one and the third one. Those three properties

[48:25] did come with the property. Those were constructed around 1980s and earlier. Therefore, the

[48:33] property owner inherited them when the property acquired the property itself. The proposed detached garage

[48:41] is approximately 18 feet wide by 25 feet deep. It will be open or a garage door on one side

[48:49] and a man door on the back, which you saw in the previous picture.

[48:55] Here are approximate measurements

[48:56] of the pull-bomb of the garage being located approximately 83 feet to the western

[49:02] lot line and 90 feet to the front lot line to the south. You can see to the further west a variety of

[49:10] single-family homes. Those are existing in a relatively short subdivision

[49:18] plant. The properties to the north and east are much larger in size and were

[49:24] developed much earlier than the homes to the far west.

[49:33] I mentioned this slide

[49:35] earlier in general, the today's applicant is filing for additional accessory building space

[49:45] to staff had advised the applicant that the three existing buildings be incorporated into today's proposal

[49:56] to ensure that they are addressed and that they can continue to be maintained and used.

[50:05] through an approval of tonight if the commission determines that the additional accessory building space is generally appropriate and in harmony with the neighborhood.

[50:19] So looking at the maximum allowed accessory building size for this property, we're looking at the main level of the house as well as half of the second floor, which comes out to 1,796 square feet.

[50:32] Then, totalling the three detached accessory buildings and the attached single bag

[50:43] rods, those structures come out to 4,540 square feet, which they would then exceed the

[50:54] maximum allowed size by 2,744 square feet.

[51:00] The proposed detached garage is 450 square feet.

[51:06] Therefore, the total size at the applicant is seeking plan commission approval is 3,194 square feet.

[51:17] So again, this number is much higher than previous proposals are merely because of the inherited buildings on the property.

[51:29] So, in summary, Staff's review had indicated that the

[51:33] Proposity Texture Garage is located far from adjacent houses

[51:37] as well as from the street. It will be

[51:40] that is visible from the street as the house as well as other

[51:47] homes and grudges in the greater neighborhood. The lot is forested,

[51:54] neighboring lots primarily to the north and east are also

[51:58] the properties to the west that are much smaller size or less wooded generally because of

[52:06] their smaller parcel size.

[52:12] So the grad will be visible to some degree during the late fall

[52:17] and spring and land less visible during the summertime as many of the buffering trees are

[52:25] the situation. There is a lot of sort of low growth in that buffer as well. That would increase

[52:32] the screening. The use of the garage is primarily to park a personal vehicle. The existing

[52:38] single-bake garage of the house is small in terms of today's standards, and therefore cannot

[52:46] to accommodate the applicant's personal vehicle.

[52:52] The existing three detached buildings

[52:56] are used for a variety of reasons

[52:59] as indicated in the report, including the parking

[53:03] of other vehicles, parking using them for workshops,

[53:10] sort of operations. The applicant can, the applicant is here and can provide greater detail

[53:18] of the use of each of those buildings. But nonetheless, it is indicated in the report.

[53:24] This type of proposal does require compliance with the public notice elements.

[53:30] The Kalamazoo Gazette publication was provided as well as mailers to properties within 300 feet.

[53:38] The public participation plan has been completed, whereby the applicant hasn't formed adjacent

[53:46] properties and did receive several letters of support.

[53:49] Those letters are in your packet.

[53:52] In conclusion, staff indicates, if no additional public comment is requested by, and the

[53:58] commission is supportive of the additional 3,194 square feet of accessory building space for

[54:03] proposed detached garage, as well as the existing detached buildings at 4, 4, 4, 3,

[54:09] 3, 0.

[54:09] Founder built Avenue, be approved.

[54:13] So with that, the applicant is here to answer any questions.

[54:17] I'd be happy to answer any questions after the public hearing.

[54:20] Thank you.

[54:21] Thank you, Mr. Pope.

[54:23] If the applicant is here this evening, and would like to come forward.

[54:28] Give us your name and address.

[54:30] If you have anything else you would like to add to Mr. Pope.

[54:32] I'm Russ Uriel of 4430 Vanderbilt, and that's summed it up very well.

[54:42] The breeze might be interesting for the project.

[54:48] The existing garage is tiny.

[54:52] I have to fold my mirrors in order to get in the garage, and once I'm in there, I get

[55:02] No, the dors will hit and forget about having any packages or another passenger, it's just

[55:12] not going to work, so that's the reason for it already, because everyone is thinking, how

[55:18] many buildings does this guy need?

[55:23] Well, one more, that's all I need.

[55:27] it's slid at, if it's raining or snow and I can pull in there and open the door and get

[55:34] out of the car. Otherwise, the closest building for that I can park in is about 30 yards

[55:45] away and it's unpaid to get there. I just want to sum that up why I wanted to do this

[55:55] And I'll say this to the goal was for it to blend in, to look natural.

[56:04] It'll be cited the same as the house, the garage door, the overhead door will match the little matchbox door that's on the existing house.

[56:15] So I want it to blend and look correct.

[56:19] and so it's not an I-sort. I take a lot of care in the property and my neighbors all are

[56:32] supportive. There's no problem that I contacted all four that border my three and a half acres

[56:40] and they and I submitted all that to Eric. They all wrote something. So that that's the reasoning

[56:48] behind all of this and I'd be more than happy to answer any questions and one more thing

[56:55] before I leave, everyone I've dealt with has been totally professional and respectful regardless

[57:03] of how those goes. It was a good experience. There's good people to deal with. Thank you.

[57:11] Thank you. Are there any questions from any of the commissioners for the applicant?

[57:17] see we'll make it easy for you. No questions. No comments. Thank you. And there's nobody here that you know probably

[57:25] want to come up and talk about it so. Okay. Yeah, yeah, we're not going to allow him. He doesn't count. Thanks for listening to me. Thank you, sir.

[57:38] This is I will open up public hearing for this matter if there's anyone in the audience.

[57:44] One opportunity. Last opportunity. All right. I'll see you in no one then I will

[57:50] accept the motion to close a public hearing motion made and supported to close the

[57:57] public hearing all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any want to pose? All right. Any

[58:03] question for staff? Yes. Go for it. I'm new here. Why does this? Why is this

[58:11] What a recommendation to council and the other one was our approval.

[58:16] What's the different?

[58:17] This should be an approval or I should say this is a vote by the Planning Commission that

[58:25] is at the Planning Commission that does not go to council.

[58:31] It is a staff recommendation to the Commission for Commission to provide a final vote.

[58:37] I think the wording should have been planning commission instead of city council and the cheat sheet.

[58:44] Oh, all right. Yeah, on our offered proposed motions, it says to recommend city council approve.

[58:54] That's an error.

[58:57] I was trying to figure out why this one was different than last one.

[59:00] Yeah, I would hate to think that you had to go to council for less.

[59:03] But, you know, I just, I was there.

[59:06] I just don't.

[59:06] Whatever came to my position.

[59:08] I didn't know why I was getting there.

[59:10] Thank you.

[59:12] All right.

[59:13] Let me just try to confuse me.

[59:16] Keep us on our toes once in a while.

[59:19] All right.

[59:19] Madam Mr. Chair.

[59:21] Yes, sir.

[59:21] I will make a motion direct to approve an additional accessory space

[59:26] for proposed detached garage of 4430 Vanderbilt Avenue.

[59:32] All right.

[59:33] Motion made and supported all those in favor say aye.

[59:36] Alright.

[59:37] Anyone opposed?

[59:39] Ocean pass is congratulations, sir.

[59:42] Sir easy.

[59:42] Yes, see Yeah, and so easy we made that for you.

[59:50] Alright.

[59:50] Next item are agenda this evening, would be anybody have any comments for many commissioners

[59:57] regarding anything or anything you want to Aim for.

[1:00:00] You get off your chest, talk about. Yes, sir. So we've had many accessory dwelling unit petitions come

[1:00:08] before us, right? And I don't remember us ever denying any of them. So if our regulations aren't

[1:00:15] working to the point where things can flow without commission intervention, maybe we should look

[1:00:22] at our accessory dwelling unit ordinance, accessory dwelling building ordinance. I like the way you think

[1:00:28] sometimes. Yeah. So I mean, most of the ones that we're looking at are exceed the the

[1:00:35] limit that we have, but are on pretty large lots within the city. So maybe we can adjust

[1:00:41] what what the the limit is on the large lot of areas. I would say probably in my years of

[1:00:48] being on the commission, most of them have been larger lots of at least two or three acres.

[1:00:55] It's, I think it's only things that are larger than two lots that come to the planning commission.

[1:01:00] Is that true?

[1:01:01] Two acres of minimum.

[1:01:03] Yeah.

[1:01:03] Do I have to go to ZBA?

[1:01:06] Resolving variance.

[1:01:09] Yeah.

[1:01:10] If you don't have minimum of two acres and you want to exceed the maximum sensory building size,

[1:01:17] you do have the option to seek a dimensional variance through the ZBA, and that has been

[1:01:26] something that is rarely filed. Well, I was on the ZBA a long time ago, it was pretty

[1:01:35] routine and we routinely we often reject it or or modify it to a smaller area. So the ones that come to plan and commission, yes, perhaps there's a need to change that, but the one and a half.

[1:01:59] I think for the smaller lots, it's not even that, I think it's just area of the first floor.

[1:02:05] At least it used to be.

[1:02:12] We routinely, we would often grant them, but sometimes reduce them, and sometimes not grant them.

[1:02:19] And it came, it came very often to ZBA on for lake lots.

[1:02:24] They may have all gotten done by now, frankly.

[1:02:28] The other nuance in there was,

[1:02:35] there was a limit on the size of an accessory building.

[1:02:39] Of an individual accessory building to 20% don't quote me on this.

[1:02:44] I think it was 20% of the required very art.

[1:02:46] So there were many lots where you couldn't put up a two-part garage, but you could put up two one-part

[1:02:51] garages and we often granted those variances because I didn't make any sounds.

[1:02:58] But so I'm saying there are instances where area, accessory building area, have been more

[1:03:06] controversial than on these large lots, and it's only these large lots that come to the

[1:03:12] planning commission.

[1:03:13] That's why you've only seen them.

[1:03:16] We had a smaller one on how's that old mission of, you know,

[1:03:20] milllump for a screening forage a couple months ago.

[1:03:24] That was a smaller lot, less than an acre, I think.

[1:03:29] Mr. Chair, it's very common that you'll scale the amount of accessory

[1:03:33] buildings based on the lot acreage, you know, the size of a lot.

[1:03:38] So it doesn't always necessarily relate to the first floor of the house or first floor

[1:03:42] half a second floor or anything. A lot of times in other municipalities, it is based on the square

[1:03:47] footage of a lot, and then, you know, with no one building exceeding, you know, we're not going

[1:03:54] to let you go to 6,000 square feet for an accessory building if you've got a large lot. But that's

[1:03:59] something, you know, I know we just did the RUDO, but if that's something that you do want to look at,

[1:04:06] sure he or could do a survey of other surrounding municipalities. See how that's handled.

[1:04:13] Next year.

[1:04:16] Yeah, but that's very common. How a lot of municipalities do a base on, you know,

[1:04:21] base lot size. Thank you. And we do that to some extent. Like I said, the maximum area of an individual

[1:04:31] is, I think it's 20% of the required rear yard, which is usually 40 foot set back by the

[1:04:38] lot, on a normal kind of flat lot. These, they're still required rear yard, I think, but it

[1:04:48] doesn't, I'm close.

[1:04:52] Any other comments from any other commissioners?

[1:04:56] I would just like to say that last week I had, I had to privilege of going over to Madison

[1:05:01] Wisconsin to spend in five days watching my son swim and I had to drive over in the five

[1:05:08] days in Madison. I came home with the attitude of anybody in this town that complains about

[1:05:17] road construction. Go drive, go drive through Chicago right now and around Chicago or in that area

[1:05:23] And if you complain about the housing,

[1:05:27] go spend a couple of days and walk around Madison, Wisconsin.

[1:05:30] You want to talk about some explosion of housing

[1:05:32] and high density, high rises, and oh my goodness.

[1:05:37] I mean, beautiful town.

[1:05:38] I mean, but they are building up.

[1:05:41] So yeah, I say to anybody who's complaining in this town,

[1:05:45] take a drive.

[1:05:46] Take a drive outside of Portage.

[1:05:48] This is nothing compared to what's going on outside of Portage.

[1:05:51] You did it on the downtown Kalamazoo.

[1:05:54] Yeah, Madison was great.

[1:05:55] I mean, and I've never seen more people in my life

[1:05:58] walk or ride bikes.

[1:06:01] And I thought school was in session.

[1:06:03] How many kids were, but yeah, the walkability

[1:06:06] and the bikeability and other in the fact that there

[1:06:10] is absolutely nowhere to park.

[1:06:12] And if you do find a parking garage,

[1:06:13] you got to be there by six o'clock in the morning

[1:06:15] or they fill up pretty fast.

[1:06:17] So we walked a lot.

[1:06:22] Yes, sir.

[1:06:23] I do apologize to the commission for being late.

[1:06:26] I don't think I was ever late to a council meeting in 28 years, but we got both

[1:06:30] Pete and I got caught by a train and the West-Nage detour on Melody, and had to turn around

[1:06:39] and make our way to Portage Road and get here.

[1:06:43] So I do apologize.

[1:06:44] We'll blame Pete.

[1:06:46] You followed him.

[1:06:49] Yes sir,

[1:07:00] they do a wonderful job, wonderful job, Mr. Felt.

[1:07:25] I was going to get you in a minute, I was going to get you in a minute, I know a couple

[1:07:35] of days ago we had an election so kudos and you know to all the election workers and

[1:07:42] everybody in the city clerks office, you know, again pulled off another marvelous job and let's

[1:07:48] open November that we get like about 50% turnout because 22% just doesn't cut the

[1:07:54] mustard but hey all right so August 20th okay next meeting anybody gonna be

[1:08:03] absent anybody oh nope now I'm sorry to bad and you okay all right and Mr.

[1:08:12] cop I'm just gonna assume is probably gonna be gone but no just get. Told them I

[1:08:17] I just made him the term and so on.

[1:08:20] All right, anybody else?

[1:08:22] Got anything? Nothing else?

[1:08:24] All right, meetings adjourned.

Planning Commission Meeting 8-6-26

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