[0:13] Dear heavenly father, we praise you for

[0:15] today. We praise you for the crops you

[0:18] have provided.

[0:20] This land that is

[0:22] we ask you to be with us today. Let us

[0:24] make wise decisions. Let us do what's

[0:28] best.

[0:31] and give us your wisdom and grace and

[0:33] mercy.

[0:35] Amen.

[0:38] To the flag of the United States of

[0:41] America and to the stands nationy

[0:49] and justice for all.

[1:02] call the meeting to order at 8:00 or 8

[1:07] and

[1:09] I don't see anybody

[1:11] nobody in public forum. Mr. K and Mrs.

[1:16] just arrived.

[1:24] All right.

[1:41] » So, initially we were going to hit three

[1:43] things today. We were looking at getting

[1:45] signature,

[1:46] but Scott is not here for our gr

[1:53] that I spoke to you guys about. But

[1:55] starting off, um Oh, we need to do this,

[1:58] too.

[2:03] » But starting out, um

[2:05] >> do you want us to approve the grant and

[2:07] then just when Scott gets in town to

[2:09] approve or do you want to come back?

[2:14] We he can come back Monday. It's not due

[2:18] until the end of September. So

[2:21] >> I was going to say we can approve it

[2:25] and he could probably sign it as vice

[2:27] chair. It's your call.

[2:29] >> Well, yeah, we'll wait till he comes

[2:31] back, I think.

[2:32] >> Okay.

[2:33] >> Um so this right here is uh a program

[2:36] that we are working on. It's I mean

[2:39] pretty simple, but we had some folks out

[2:41] of uh our Bennington EMS. They raised

[2:44] some concerns about some of their um

[2:47] residents not being able to afford

[2:49] address markers and um just with lower

[2:52] income folks being the most vulnerable

[2:53] with our um EMS and uh healthcare. Um we

[2:59] think it's important that they have

[3:00] something that identifies their address

[3:03] for first responders should they need to

[3:04] come. Um we've had a few. who it's is a

[3:08] Bennington um that was like that. Um

[3:12] Carl, I'm not sure about Minneapolis if you guys have had anything similar.

[3:17] Um but this would allow um individuals

[3:20] um

[3:22] below the federal or at or below the

[3:24] federal standard or other local

[3:26] guidelines um that meet the poverty criteria to

[3:33] apply for a free address marker. Um

[3:38] and uh we would install that as needed.

[3:41] >> So is this one that um each person would

[3:45] apply individually?

[3:46] >> Yeah.

[3:46] >> So would you get a pot of money to

[3:49] distribute or each application you would

[3:51] then have to forward?

[3:54] >> I'm not understanding.

[3:56] >> So uh so from the grant side from them

[3:58] funding it

[3:59] >> Yeah.

[4:00] >> Um do they give you a certain amount of

[4:02] money and then you give it out as people

[4:04] apply or application, do you have to

[4:07] send it into a higher authority to get

[4:09] the reimbursement?

[4:10] >> No. And so, um, but that that stays with

[4:13] us on our side. Um, like we don't

[4:19] the addressing comes from us. And so,

[4:21] Marie, am I answering this?

[4:23] >> Okay. What it is is we were wanting to

[4:26] get this program started now. So, we

[4:29] were wanting to fund it on a county

[4:31] level right now to where the

[4:33] applications come in to us. We review

[4:37] them and then we approve or deny their

[4:39] application and go ahead and issue the

[4:42] address marker. I've talked to Chris and

[4:45] he's on board with it. And then going

[4:49] forward, I would look at applying for

[4:53] different grants to

[4:55] supplement this program. So right now

[4:58] we're funding it.

[4:59] >> Yeah. Right.

[5:00] >> We would fund it and then your hopes to

[5:03] find a grant that would offset some of

[5:05] the cost.

[5:08] >> Okay. And so

[5:11] you're trying to approve

[5:14] like this application process. So So

[5:18] it's free to them.

[5:20] >> So it costs us what?

[5:22] >> Just the cost of the signs. We already

[5:24] have all the supplies on on hand that to

[5:28] make the address markers. We do that

[5:31] right now. So, it would cost us just

[5:34] what the supplies are.

[5:37] >> Idea like how much?

[5:38] >> Um, right now it it depends on the sign.

[5:42] 30 to 40 bucks a sign. And then like 10

[5:46] or I'm not sure how much a post. It just

[5:49] varies.

[5:51] >> So,

[5:52] >> about 50.

[5:54] So, so $50 a sign. And are you taking

[5:58] this out of your

[6:00] one account?

[6:02] >> We wouldn't we it it's out of our

[6:04] address markers.

[6:06] >> You had a $10,000 fund there. And I sent

[6:10] an email to Miller. Did you see that

[6:12] this weekend?

[6:13] >> Uh, did you read it?

[6:14] >> Yeah, the one. Yeah. Yeah. So, when I

[6:16] looked at his account, he had um for his

[6:19] budget, I think it was $10,000 for

[6:23] address

[6:24] markers.

[6:25] >> Yeah. And for the last in 2023 and 2024,

[6:28] you never used it.

[6:30] >> Um

[6:30] >> I can look at you because you were here.

[6:33] >> The the reason we hadn't used it is

[6:37] when Kenny and John were there, they

[6:40] used to order supplies at the end of the

[6:43] year and they had us really stocked up.

[6:46] So Chris decided to not order any

[6:51] supplies. He said this year we're going

[6:53] to have to order supplies.

[6:56] So we will be using some of it, but pro

[6:59] we usually average about 5,000.

[7:03] >> Yeah. I So yeah, I only went back two

[7:05] years in the budget. So you think that

[7:07] they bought the existing supplies? So I

[7:10] looked at 25.

[7:11] >> Yeah.

[7:11] >> So you would have bought it in 23. Yeah,

[7:14] I would have bought it because they

[7:17] would go at the end of the year and help

[7:19] me

[7:21] >> Okay. All right. So, like if you're

[7:23] saying it's $50,

[7:25] then what do we have? 5,000. I have no

[7:28] idea. We don't

[7:30] >> It wouldn't It wouldn't even cost us

[7:32] anything out of pocket right now because

[7:34] we've got all this.

[7:35] >> We have the supplies. Yeah.

[7:37] The only the time for them to make the

[7:40] sign is all it's gonna

[7:43] >> and they do that for.

[7:46] So it's basically

[7:47] >> So you're just trying to make a

[7:49] criteria. Do I understand this right?

[7:51] You're trying to make a criteria to

[7:52] provide these sites free

[7:54] >> for some people. Yeah. for the lower

[7:56] income people

[7:57] >> because we have fire, EMS, and law

[8:00] enforcement who some of these people's

[8:04] houses are on dirt roads. And

[8:08] you can ask Carl, it's very, very hard

[8:11] to find their driveways. And if we have

[8:13] the driveways marked, it will make

[8:16] response times.

[8:17] >> Are those sticks that you stick in at

[8:19] the driveway? Is that what they

[8:20] >> No, these are these are regular. We've

[8:23] got copies of the if you want to come.

[8:26] >> Oh, yeah. They're they're the they're

[8:27] the green facing road signs with

[8:29] reflective.

[8:29] >> They're just like our address, our road

[8:32] signs, only we go vertically.

[8:35] >> Street sign.

[8:36] >> It'll just have their number on it.

[8:38] >> It will have their number and road name.

[8:40] >> Oh, and their road name. Okay.

[8:43] >> Okay. So, it's just a vertical sign.

[8:44] >> Great.

[8:45] >> Vertical sign.

[8:46] >> Somebody at night looking for an

[8:47] address.

[8:48] >> Yeah. and they're reflective so you can

[8:50] really see. And if law enforcement, EMS,

[8:55] fire come across a house like that that

[8:58] they're having a hard time and the

[9:00] people are lower income, they can give

[9:03] them the application and then if the

[9:05] people want to apply, they can.

[9:08] >> So in the past, you've had people

[9:10] purchase these from you.

[9:11] >> Yeah. And we'll still do that. We

[9:13] >> And do you charge $50? What do you

[9:15] charge?

[9:16] >> Yeah, I've got the

[9:18] downstairs. But yeah,

[9:20] >> it's about $50. It's based on No,

[9:24] >> it it's based on whether they want

[9:26] one-sided, two-sided, with a post,

[9:29] without a post,

[9:31] um, installed, not installed.

[9:33] >> I see.

[9:35] >> So, we've got different prices and it's

[9:38] on our website, too, if you want to look

[9:40] it up

[9:41] >> that you provide those

[9:43] >> today. Do we need to approve the

[9:45] application for the grant to get this

[9:48] >> the we you we just need you to approve

[9:50] the grant program

[9:53] and then the application process.

[9:55] >> So you want us to approve that we're

[9:58] going to go provide these for the lower

[10:01] income people. You put the criteria

[10:03] there. It says

[10:07] » the program

[10:08] >> locally established low income standard.

[10:13] that have a household income at federal

[10:16] property guidelines or meet a locally

[10:18] established lowinccome standard, owner

[10:21] rent a residential property within the

[10:24] program service area, which would be

[10:26] Ottawa County, do not currently have a

[10:30] clearly visible and properly installed

[10:32] address marker, and demonstrate a need

[10:36] for financial assistance. So you say uh

[10:40] check all statements that apply, but

[10:43] they have to meet at least number one,

[10:46] right?

[10:48] >> Unless it's a special circumstance or

[10:51] something, but yeah, they should meet

[10:52] number one. Yeah.

[10:54] >> Yeah. I mean, if if our goal is to

[10:56] provide these for low-inccome people,

[10:59] >> did you create this?

[11:01] >> Okay.

[11:01] >> And it can be modified however we want.

[11:04] If you find something on there you don't

[11:06] like and you want to modify it, you

[11:09] don't have to approve it the way it is,

[11:11] but it's something you need to look at

[11:14] and if you want to go through and modify

[11:17] some of it, you can, but you need to

[11:20] just let us know and then we can redo

[11:22] it.

[11:22] >> Yeah, I think that

[11:24] >> I think it sets through sets the

[11:26] guidelines very clearly what the poverty

[11:28] level is. People you will know whether

[11:31] people will apply will be eligible that

[11:34] the way this form is, it doesn't say, it

[11:36] says check all statements that apply. It

[11:38] doesn't say that you must first qualify

[11:41] for the first one.

[11:43] >> I mean, first we don't want to provide

[11:46] this for everyone in the county. No,

[11:48] >> we wanted to we're we're aiming at the

[11:51] lowincome people,

[11:52] >> right?

[11:53] >> And so I think I think the first thing

[11:56] you have to say

[11:58] that they must meet the first guideline

[12:02] and then they could check any others that does

[12:06] not apply. You understand?

[12:09] >> Have you used this before, Marie?

[12:11] >> No, it's something I

[12:13] >> we just developed.

[12:15] >> Yeah, I'm in favor of it. I just think

[12:16] you you this has to be a must.

[12:20] >> Okay.

[12:21] >> And then the rest of those can be

[12:23] potential qual

[12:25] eligibility beyond that.

[12:28] >> Um because we want them to live there, I

[12:31] own or rent.

[12:33] It does not have one and a finance

[12:37] obtaining. I uh

[12:41] I guess

[12:44] to me um

[12:48] we could go must meet income at or below

[12:52] federal poverty level and please check

[12:55] all statements that apply

[12:57] >> beyond the beyond

[12:58] >> or at other other ones. Yeah, I think

[13:01] that makes sense. Otherwise, you're

[13:03] saying

[13:04] you're not making that a requirement.

[13:07] >> We can change that to where eligibility

[13:11] and then we can put that must meet that

[13:14] and then please check all others that

[13:18] apply.

[13:18] >> I'm perfectly fine with that. Yeah.

[13:20] >> Okay.

[13:20] >> So, that I'm thinking uh so will people

[13:23] actually I guess people will provide

[13:25] this information to you? You think

[13:28] >> if they want an address marker? address

[13:30] marker.

[13:31] >> Yeah.

[13:33] And comparatively, I mean, this is, you

[13:37] know, I remember back when we were doing

[13:40] the the June 8th stuff. Um,

[13:43] the documentation and the loops that you

[13:46] would have to go through in order to get

[13:47] kind of assistance from state or FEMA, I

[13:50] mean, people that was a hangup for them

[13:52] and and them not wanting to do it in the

[13:54] first place. This is really really

[13:55] simple. All they have to do is just meet

[13:57] the eligibility and we're it's It's

[13:59] really a simple process from there. So

[14:03] >> is there a situation where

[14:07] maybe on the eligibility we just say

[14:09] they have to meet the first one and then

[14:12] >> well the eligibility does

[14:15] >> or

[14:15] >> it does say they have to meet

[14:17] >> or meet another locally established low

[14:20] income standard. So, if somebody is

[14:22] like,

[14:25] you don't want it in black or white

[14:27] because if somebody is like $10 over the

[14:31] low income,

[14:33] >> you don't want that to disqualify them

[14:35] >> automatically.

[14:36] because I know a lot of

[14:39] people that would be at the poverty

[14:42] level, but like they're $100 over or

[14:45] something because that has always been a

[14:48] stickler with um free lunch programs and

[14:51] stuff.

[14:52] >> You have some of these people that

[14:54] >> are so closed.

[14:56] >> Yeah. And that's where you would want

[14:59] the county to have the discretion.

[15:01] >> Okay. So, why don't we do this? So, when we say uh check which one applies,

[15:08] you'll have the first statement and the

[15:09] second one which are I'm sorry, the

[15:11] fourth one which are both financial

[15:13] needs based. So, they either may meet

[15:17] that low income standard or financial

[15:20] assistance. So, one of those other what

[15:23] you're saying is you want that

[15:24] discretion, which I'm okay.

[15:26] >> I mean, I appreciate your wisdom there.

[15:30] So, I think you want uh

[15:33] those two together and say you must meet

[15:36] this or

[15:37] >> what are these

[15:38] >> and then the other one check these other

[15:40] two if they apply just for further

[15:42] information.

[15:44] >> But, um if you want that flexibility, I

[15:47] think you put that must meet the one or

[15:51] four.

[15:52] >> Okay.

[15:52] >> And then put two or three. Two and three

[15:54] separately.

[15:55] >> Yeah, I can do that. And we can send you

[15:58] a copy of the revised application.

[16:00] >> I'm okay with the way it reads because

[16:02] you just go down like a checklist of

[16:04] your income first to get that set for

[16:06] property level

[16:08] and then the need as far as nonmark

[16:10] address or anything. I think people and

[16:13] maybe I take too much into account for

[16:15] the American public, but you know, they

[16:16] can follow the check line check marks

[16:19] and just put down the line. So,

[16:21] >> well, I think we're our market market,

[16:24] our strategic target, that's what I

[16:26] should say, is a low income people,

[16:29] right?

[16:30] >> And so, um,

[16:32] yeah, I would just put one either one or

[16:35] four and the other two check if either

[16:38] apply and otherwise I'm fine with it.

[16:41] Okay.

[16:42] >> Do you want to bring it back or do you

[16:43] want to just have us approve it with

[16:45] that change?

[16:46] >> Uh, if you could approve it with that

[16:48] change and then I can email you a copy

[16:50] of the change.

[16:51] >> Okay. All right. So,

[16:53] >> if that would work.

[16:54] >> And then this um this is just

[16:56] information you're going to give them.

[16:59] >> Yeah. We're going to put this program,

[17:00] we're going to put it in the newspaper

[17:02] and we'll put it online on our

[17:05] >> Good idea.

[17:05] >> Um,

[17:06] >> we will we will be promoting it. And

[17:08] then um we had interest from Tony Swatz

[17:11] and EM Bennington EMS. Carl, this could

[17:14] be something that um you if you're

[17:16] interested in you can do it as well. Um

[17:18] because Bennington's the one that kind

[17:19] of came to us about it. Um and kind of

[17:22] brought us the idea. Um Tony is really

[17:25] um wanting to go forward with this and

[17:27] kind of get it out to his folks. So

[17:28] he'll disseminate it within his

[17:29] district. And you know if Carl

[17:31] >> No, that's good. Getting information out

[17:33] is the hardest thing. Yeah.

[17:34] >> Especially in the Bennington area where

[17:36] not as many people submit to that paper.

[17:38] >> Right. Right. And

[17:40] >> yeah. And if there's anything that is

[17:41] locally geared to

[17:43] >> to um Minneapolis over Bennington. I'm

[17:46] not sure if there is, but um we want to

[17:48] make sure that anybody within the EMS or

[17:50] fire, you know, we can we'll push this

[17:52] out to all our fire districts. I don't

[17:53] want this to be just because Bennington

[17:56] brought it to us. I don't want this to

[17:57] seem like it's geared specifically

[17:58] towards Bennington. This is a total

[18:00] Ottawa County um thing that we're

[18:02] working on.

[18:02] >> And we'll send it to the city halls,

[18:04] too. And some of the cities have their

[18:07] own publication that they send out

[18:10] >> so they can put it in that. And

[18:12] >> Right. Exactly.

[18:13] >> You're going to take it to Bington City

[18:15] Hall and Adrian could put it in the

[18:16] water bills. That's how the best way to

[18:18] distribute in the city of Bennington.

[18:21] >> They do it for free. [clears throat]

[18:23] >> Yeah. I'll send it to her and ask her to

[18:25] send it out to all I think I think it's

[18:28] a good thing. So, I will approve the

[18:31] free address marker assistance program

[18:34] and the free address marker application

[18:38] as modified

[18:40] to make the requirements be a

[18:42] requirement. One or the other as

[18:45] presented. So,

[18:46] >> is that a motion?

[18:47] >> That was a motion. Didn't I say motion?

[18:50] I move. I move. Did I move? I thought

[18:52] you said I approve.

[18:53] >> I move. Okay. I will second it.

[18:59] Any discussion?

[19:03] >> All those in favor?

[19:04] >> I

[19:08] » And then part two,

[19:11] um, talk to all you guys this weekend

[19:14] kind of about

[19:19] warning siren. I found a friend. Um

[19:22] Perkins is actually one of the guys that

[19:24] was um called and I used as a reference.

[19:27] Um so that specific unit um I'm thinking

[19:31] it would be best in wells from the

[19:34] standpoint of it's easy to power. Um but

[19:39] at some point I'm in a larger system

[19:42] that I'm working on that is you know

[19:44] it's going to take a year or two to plan

[19:47] and bring it forward and and to revise.

[19:49] So, I'm not ready to present the entire

[19:51] system just yet, but this would fit

[19:53] within that system and the guidelines

[19:56] barring that we can provide backup power

[19:58] to the siren at some point. That doesn't

[20:00] have to start off off the bat, but at

[20:02] some point it can be equipped with um

[20:06] backup power and a joint project with

[20:08] the Bennington Fire Department and

[20:10] applying that to the station there. But

[20:12] the siren itself is only $800.

[20:14] Um it's a newer condition. It's easy to

[20:17] power, very power accessible, and um it

[20:21] also comes with the motor contactor. So,

[20:23] the only thing we would need to buy as

[20:25] additional supplies would be the radio

[20:28] receiver. And then if you want to throw

[20:31] in the utility pole or um whatever

[20:35] tower, whatever we use to mount it on.

[20:37] Um but that would just be the

[20:39] installation. I would say that that's a

[20:41] part of the installation cost more than

[20:42] it is the actual supplies needed. So,

[20:45] um, all in all, I think we are probably

[20:48] able to get this up in the air and

[20:51] working.

[20:53] Um, $8,000 or under is my best guess.

[20:57] Um, and mainly the installation cost

[21:00] and, uh, the radio receiver that can be

[21:02] funded through grants. We have hazard

[21:04] mitigation grants. I'm not I'm not very

[21:07] worried about that, but um we have the

[21:12] oversight to to pay for that in house in

[21:16] the first place. The issue that I'm um

[21:20] presenting to you guys would be this

[21:21] would be the first siren to go up in the

[21:24] county in an unincorporated area. So,

[21:27] Wells does not have a siren. Um Niles

[21:31] does not have a siren. And so in

[21:34] addition, I'm looking at Triple Tree and

[21:35] Aspen Ridge, kind of our more populated

[21:37] subdivisions in the future, but Wells is

[21:42] they have that Bennington substation

[21:44] there for district 4. And I talked with

[21:47] Brian. I would have to present it to the

[21:49] board at Bennington Fire, but they are

[21:51] interested in in doing kind of a joint

[21:53] agreement where we can put that siren at

[21:56] that station and that would serve the

[21:58] town of Wells.

[22:00] >> So So you said right now we have any

[22:02] sirens at Wells or Ada or where?

[22:05] >> We have we have a siren at ADA. Um ADA

[22:08] is in an interesting situation because

[22:10] the fire chief has to activate that

[22:11] manually. Um as far as I am aware um

[22:17] sheriff is going to he said he's looking

[22:19] at um getting radio grants for his side

[22:23] so that he can activate it through 911

[22:25] dispatch. Um but ADA does have a siren.

[22:28] Wells is the only unincorporated

[22:29] community that does have a siren. I get

[22:31] if it is unincorporated then then maybe

[22:34] that counts but Wells and Niles are the

[22:36] only two.

[22:37] >> So this is not a siren that's up there

[22:39] now.

[22:40] >> That that would be just that's a proof

[22:41] of concept. That's proof of concept. So

[22:43] that's just what it could

[22:44] >> Oh this is an AI generated thing.

[22:47] >> No not AI generated. It's

[22:49] >> you added the pole in the

[22:51] >> Yeah.

[22:51] >> visual is that

[22:54] this little quick Google drawing that's

[22:58] >> okay. Have you talked to Russ about how

[23:00] difficult it will be to incorporate for

[23:02] his side?

[23:03] >> So, um, Russ is on board with it. I'll

[23:06] say that. Now, there there is going to

[23:08] be a little bit of back end. I'm not

[23:10] sure what the cost is for introducing a

[23:12] new radio tone set and getting it

[23:14] programmed into 911. I don't think it's

[23:16] going to be a whole lot, but um, it

[23:19] would some it would be something that we

[23:21] as the emergency management, we we would

[23:23] pay for because that us introducing

[23:25] that. um it shouldn't have to come off

[23:27] the backs of um the sheriff if if

[23:30] they're not introducing or working with

[23:33] the project other than just facilitating

[23:36] the activation of it.

[23:42] » So, so I sent you the email saying how

[23:45] do you plan to fund it?

[23:47] >> How are you funding it?

[23:48] >> Grants.

[23:49] and and we have our FEMA account.

[23:53] He can purchase a siren outright for the

[23:56] 800 through the FEMA

[23:58] >> through our our FEMA account. We've got

[24:01] a FEMA account which

[24:04] um we can use for hazard mitigation

[24:07] areas.

[24:08] >> What account is that? What number is

[24:09] that?

[24:10] >> It's a six I think it's 61, but we've

[24:14] got

[24:15] >> It's not your radio account.

[24:16] >> No, it's not. It's a It's a FEMA

[24:20] account.

[24:22] >> And we put like administrative costs and

[24:25] different things.

[24:26] >> Yeah.

[24:26] >> That we get for the

[24:29] FEMA

[24:31] uh when we do FEMA grants and stuff like

[24:34] that.

[24:35] >> We have that we have funding in there.

[24:38] So, it's got I think Do you remember

[24:41] what the balance was? It

[24:42] >> was about 11,000.

[24:45] It's a little It was just north of

[24:46] 11,000. So, you think it's been 61?

[24:50] >> I think and and explain to me again how

[24:53] it got built up just so I understand

[24:55] because I'm sure I'm aware of that.

[24:57] >> We've had that for before I was

[25:00] emergency management and we just keep

[25:04] adding to it. Um, when we do

[25:07] administrative costs, we do what we call

[25:11] a CAT Z

[25:13] project, which gives us administrative

[25:17] costs for doing the uh

[25:21] >> application,

[25:22] >> FEMA grants, all the paperwork that I

[25:25] had to do, everything like that, and

[25:27] we've been able to build the fund up

[25:29] that way.

[25:32] So that's and it can only be touched for

[25:35] hazard mitigation projects.

[25:38] >> So it's the siren.

[25:40] >> Yeah.

[25:41] The siren would qualify for

[25:45] >> I remember in an email for a phone

[25:47] conversation you said this was part of

[25:49] your plan to get sirens into these other

[25:51] areas.

[25:52] >> What do you have timeline or wait for

[25:55] another fall into your lap like this or

[25:58] >> so? It it would be a mixture. So largely

[26:01] speaking, um s I want to have a

[26:05] prerequisite in place that

[26:08] um a siren would be able to be

[26:11] um it would be able to be equipped with

[26:14] backup power of some kind. Most of that

[26:16] is battery backup with newer sirens, but

[26:18] also I if you get creative enough with

[26:21] older sirens that are AC only, if

[26:24] they're attached to a facility that has

[26:26] a generator backup, then it could work

[26:27] that way. Um but largely speaking,

[26:31] um sirens that would be at standalone

[26:34] locations without a county or city

[26:36] facility, which would be Aspen Ridge,

[26:39] Triple Tree, and then a few other

[26:42] locations to kind of fill in gaps in

[26:43] that southeast corner. Um or even just

[26:47] southern corner. Um they would have to

[26:49] be um fully battery backup capable. And

[26:53] so that would be a larger project that

[26:55] that's a larger project that I'm working

[26:56] on, but I want to make sure that that's

[26:58] not just focused on outdoor, but also

[27:01] we're incorporating our an indoor

[27:03] warning system where we can hit, you

[27:04] know, city buildings, um, different kind

[27:08] of local areas that would need an indoor

[27:10] warning notice more than just a weather

[27:12] radio that broadly tells people in the

[27:15] entire county. Um, it's just it's an

[27:18] added layer

[27:19] >> when you're talking indoor city county

[27:22] buildings. what you need as far as

[27:24] something.

[27:31] » So

[27:32] there's

[27:34] I have a preferred vendor um that I

[27:36] would do this through. Now there's a few

[27:38] different vendors that could support it

[27:39] and I think ultimately if we do when we get to that point we would have

[27:43] to put it out as a bid system um for

[27:47] other to for vendors to bid on. that um

[27:51] the indoor and outdoor warning system

[27:54] would be able to be activated from the

[27:56] same console. And so it would just be

[27:59] one system where the larger system is

[28:01] the console and it hits these different

[28:03] activation points or it hits these

[28:05] different notification points being

[28:06] indoor warning, outdoor warning. And I

[28:09] am looking at planning on doing I'm

[28:11] looking at what we can do for test and

[28:14] their flooding kind of situation. And

[28:16] there's a there's kind of a creative way

[28:19] um for an outdoor notification device to

[28:21] be incorporated into that as well. And

[28:22] that could be incorporated on the same

[28:24] board. Um and this would be something

[28:26] that would be shared between myself and

[28:29] dispatchers hypothetically speaking

[28:31] because I haven't really ironed out the

[28:34] kinks to it yet. I have um that's my

[28:36] general idea for it, but um there are a

[28:40] few smaller ideas that I'm thinking, but

[28:42] I just don't know if they're good ideas

[28:44] just yet.

[28:46] Well, at this point, you can buy the

[28:47] $800 sire, have it on site here, county,

[28:51] and then we can work through getting it

[28:53] in place and get the grant grant money

[28:56] comes in, then we buy the radios,

[28:58] >> right?

[29:00] That's that's that's mainly so

[29:02] that that is kind of the way we're

[29:05] looking at it as we're presenting it to

[29:07] you here is we we can purchase the siren

[29:09] inhouse. We don't need um we're not

[29:13] looking for approval for that. We are

[29:15] looking for approval of the actual

[29:17] installation

[29:19] in Wells because that is a

[29:21] unincorporated community that is

[29:23] overseen by the county

[29:25] >> and this would be the first in the

[29:27] county to be not in an incorporated

[29:29] area.

[29:30] >> How did you arrive well over triple

[29:33] tree?

[29:34] >> How did you get to that decision?

[29:35] >> Yeah. So, um, there is not a Triple

[29:40] Tree, Aspen Ridge, Niles. There is not a

[29:43] county or city building in either of

[29:46] those locations that could in the future

[29:49] support backup power. If we were to

[29:52] install this in Wells at the um at

[29:55] Bennington Fire Station 4 or District 4,

[29:57] their substation there, um Bennington

[30:01] and Emergency Management could go in on

[30:03] a joint project to buy a backup

[30:05] generator for the building there at some

[30:07] point. Um just so they could access

[30:10] their um equipment in that building

[30:13] during a power outage if they need to.

[30:14] And it could also, you know, power the

[30:16] siren in the event of a power loss to

[30:19] wireless.

[30:19] >> Will this operate on DC or have AC?

[30:23] >> Um, it is going to be AC, I believe. AC.

[30:26] >> I Yeah, I believe it's generator.

[30:30] >> Yeah. Yeah, that's that's Yeah, that's

[30:32] what I'm saying. Um, but also this

[30:35] doesn't need to be

[30:37] my plan is for

[30:41] that is for sirens to become able to run

[30:44] on backup at some point. And so this

[30:47] isn't something where I I just want the

[30:49] accessibility to be there. So in a

[30:51] larger project in the future, we could

[30:53] take it on. Um, I just want it to be

[30:55] accessible. And so if we were to throw a

[30:57] backup generator in there now, there

[30:59] goes an extra $10,000 on top of the

[31:01] entire project. then we're looking at

[31:03] something much larger. But if we include

[31:04] that backup generator

[31:07] um as a part of a larger project in the

[31:09] future, especially something that

[31:10] Bennington Fire and us can go in on

[31:12] together, um that would um that would

[31:17] help us in the future and at the very

[31:20] least right now we have something that

[31:22] can be accessible and and equipped with

[31:25] the ability to become battery or backup

[31:28] generator powered if needed.

[31:38] I think you got a good safe plan. We get

[31:41] generators out of your budget out of

[31:43] your money

[31:45] right now.

[31:49] Staying out of $5,000 radio.

[31:55] How will you determine I know we're

[31:57] kicking the can down the road for triple

[31:59] tree. don't have a county building,

[32:02] right?

[32:02] >> Do you have a plan for someday we're

[32:04] going to have to confront that situation

[32:06] to have a place to put a siren in a non

[32:09] county home?

[32:10] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um so those setups are

[32:12] a lot simil or a lot simpler I should

[32:15] say. Um I generally have I have general

[32:18] locations in mind for where sirens would

[32:20] go. Um these sirens would just be on on

[32:24] utility poles. It it's basically what

[32:26] Bennington has right now. Those would be

[32:29] what um Triple Tree, Aspen Ridge, and those areas would be. And inside of

[32:33] the control boxes on that same utility

[32:35] pole is the battery backup to the actual

[32:38] siren. So, these would be solar powered

[32:40] battery backup sirens. Um but because

[32:42] they are newer, these would be like

[32:44] straight off the market. Um if not most

[32:47] and all, um this would be something is

[32:50] going to be a part of a larger project

[32:51] down the road. The reason why this is

[32:53] specific to Wells right now is because

[32:54] it is the most accessible for um

[33:00] the it the siren itself would be most

[33:02] accessible for the Welsh community to

[33:03] use with that Bennington sub substation

[33:06] there and um it's we're just on a

[33:10] timeline and so

[33:12] my friend I basically told him give me

[33:14] until today and if and if we're not able

[33:16] to do it you know if you guys aren't

[33:18] able to approve on it then that it is

[33:19] what it is but um with it just being

[33:22] kind of something that other fire

[33:24] departments and jurisdictions within his

[33:25] area are interested in. I just wanted to

[33:27] make sure that it we took advantage of

[33:29] an opportunity at the very least.

[33:31] >> Oh, absolutely.

[33:33] >> See the timeline where you're going next

[33:35] with another, you know, nothing falls

[33:38] out next week, you know, before you put

[33:40] it see the whole picture as you see it.

[33:43] >> And and and I'm and I'm really good at

[33:45] sniffing these opportunities out. The

[33:47] pro this the thing that's specific to

[33:49] this is it is a newer sire newer model.

[33:53] We would get a pretty good service life

[33:54] out of it. Um and it is really easy to

[33:59] power. Runs off of singlephase

[34:00] residential power. So it's not

[34:01] three-phase industrial power where we

[34:03] would have to use more expensive

[34:05] electricity and more expensive hookup

[34:08] and all that stuff.

[34:11] >> Going forward with like the triple tree

[34:13] and all those. He's gonna have to work

[34:15] through the HOAs. Yeah. For each of

[34:17] those.

[34:18] >> Yeah.

[34:18] >> So, that's another reason why.

[34:21] >> Well, I think it makes sense. I'm glad

[34:23] you found the opportunity. I'm glad

[34:24] you're thinking about the long term how

[34:26] to cover everybody. That's great.

[34:28] >> Yeah.

[34:28] >> And I did find the account. It's um it's

[34:33] 16.

[34:34] >> Okay.

[34:35] >> 16. Yeah.

[34:36] >> I I had the I had the numbers right.

[34:38] >> You were close. Very close. [laughter]

[34:40] And Yeah. So, you have $11,000 in there.

[34:43] So, this is what I I you're saying is

[34:46] that you're going to go ahead and buy

[34:47] the siren.

[34:48] >> You're going to use that money to

[34:50] probably install it and then the plan is

[34:53] to get grants to reimburse that account

[34:56] and for future funding of this project.

[34:58] >> Um, I would say the grants would

[35:00] probably more likely go towards the

[35:02] actual installation of the siren. I

[35:03] don't know if it's necessarily safe or

[35:05] smart to take out most of that account

[35:10] off the rip. The main concern we were

[35:12] having is if we use our money to buy

[35:14] this siren, do we have the approval to

[35:17] put it up in wells instead of just

[35:20] sitting around for something it doesn't

[35:21] have the approval for?

[35:23] >> So the main thing is to put it up in

[35:25] wells and we would get grants. We would

[35:27] fill out grants and apply for grants for

[35:29] the actual installation of it, not so

[35:30] much through

[35:31] >> get grant funding that quickly.

[35:32] >> I don't know about quickly. So

[35:35] >> if we get the siren when we have it

[35:37] here, that's what we need to do right

[35:39] now and I get that and but it seems like

[35:43] you know uh

[35:45] the the whole grant site. I I just never

[35:48] see it turn that quickly. Although

[35:49] doesn't county have an ending date

[35:52] September 30th, is that right? For the

[35:54] next round. So I guess you could apply

[35:56] for them already. Yeah, there there are

[35:58] grants that we can apply for and we're

[36:00] not trying to

[36:02] I it would be great if we could get it

[36:04] up before storm season. That's going to

[36:05] be our goal, but ultimately it's not

[36:08] something that we are trying to do

[36:10] immediately. We are just trying to

[36:12] >> wait for the

[36:13] >> Yeah. So, we're going to wait for our financial opportunities to become

[36:17] available, but ultimately we're moving

[36:19] quickly on it now is because

[36:22] >> tomorrow that siren might not be

[36:23] available for us.

[36:24] >> No, I I think it's great. I And I like

[36:27] the idea. So, do you want a motion to

[36:29] put it in Wells or do you just want a

[36:31] consensus that we agree that Wells is a

[36:33] good location? What do you want?

[36:35] >> Um, a motion for approval. We are

[36:38] seeking a motion for approval of the

[36:41] siren placement to be in Wells at

[36:43] Bennington Fire Station for their

[36:46] pending. The Bennington board approves

[36:48] it.

[36:49] >> Oh, okay. So, I'll make a motion. I'm

[36:51] not going to say say I'll strike that

[36:53] for a minute. I'm not going to say

[36:54] purchases because you have authority to

[36:56] do it. We plan to do it. So, I'll make

[36:59] >> if if if

[37:01] the if the use that we're presenting is

[37:03] approved. If the proposal of putting it

[37:05] in Wells is approved.

[37:06] >> Okay. So, I'll move that we uh locate

[37:10] the siren to be purchased in Wells at

[37:13] Fire Station 4.

[37:24] I moved. I moved.

[37:26] >> You moved. That's it. I was expecting

[37:28] more details.

[37:29] >> Well, it's it's just to the the

[37:31] placement of the siren at fire station 4

[37:34] and wells. I think that's sufficient.

[37:36] >> I will second.

[37:39] >> Any discussion?

[37:42] >> All those in favor?

[37:44] >> I

[37:48] go.

[37:49] >> Yeah.

[37:50] >> We'll have to we'll have to figure out

[37:52] how we can get a truck down there, but

[37:53] we We'll make it happen.

[37:56] >> Thanks for uh

[37:57] >> You guys need to keep those

[37:59] >> long longterm plan though. I think

[38:01] that's really good.

[38:14] » Chris, I believe it's your turn.

[38:19] » Morning, guys. Morning.

[38:26] Got another rightway permit for a water

[38:30] line going up and around the deltas

[38:32] area.

[38:37] » The only question I had it said that

[38:39] they are going across other than under.

[38:42] Is that typical? It says it's going

[38:46] trench across the road rather than under

[38:48] the road. So in that site, they can't

[38:50] really bore.

[38:51] >> They can't.

[38:52] >> They just too much, you know, limestone,

[38:55] sandstone.

[38:57] So they're going to actually dig that

[38:58] one and they're actually going to dig it

[39:00] at a skew. That way if it does compact a

[39:03] little bit and they go drive over it,

[39:05] you're not hitting both wheels head on,

[39:07] you know, at the same time. That way at

[39:09] least it's kind of a subtle deal. And

[39:11] then if you guys pass it,

[39:14] get with the blade guy. That way we can

[39:16] keep an eye on it after it happens to

[39:19] keep it safe. That one's not just really

[39:22] not borable.

[39:24] >> Okay. So, we've done it this way before.

[39:27] >> We try not to, but

[39:31] » and so I there's not I went up there and

[39:34] drive around when I was looking at that

[39:36] bridge on windmill on 20th and so

[39:39] there's probably not that much traffic

[39:40] there other than

[39:41] >> uh that road gets quite a bit of

[39:42] traffic. It really I mean it stays very busy and then they're going to try

[39:47] to do it in the evening too. That way at

[39:49] least hopefully traffic's

[39:51] >> Can you actually do that whole trenching

[39:53] one evening?

[39:53] >> Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

[39:55] >> And get it restored.

[39:56] >> Mhm.

[39:57] >> Well, that's great.

[39:59] >> Okay.

[40:00] >> They're coming from pipe drill marker

[40:01] >> in that area. Yeah.

[40:02] >> With the water.

[40:04] >> Okay.

[40:10] I will make a motion we accept the

[40:12] roadway permit

[40:14] as presented by Chris42.

[40:26] » I'll second

[40:28] move and second. Any discussion?

[40:32] All those in favor?

[40:42] We have a tenative

[40:46] attentive

[40:49] um solid waste meeting on October 12th

[40:52] and I have a conflict now. Is there any

[40:54] way we can change that or have you

[40:55] already notified people?

[40:56] >> I haven't notified anybody. That's it's

[40:58] your guys's meeting so it's I just need

[41:01] to know. So I um I can't do October 12th

[41:05] that night. So is it possible to move it

[41:07] to the 19th or the 26th?

[41:12] » Did we choose Monday night because we

[41:14] usually have a Monday night, Chris? Is

[41:16] that why we chose Monday night or do you

[41:17] know

[41:19] >> in September

[41:21] >> October?

[41:33] 12. We had it written down because you

[41:36] wanted it done before November the date.

[41:39] >> We just have to have it done before the

[41:40] first of the year.

[41:42] >> Okay.

[41:44] So, are you okay if we move that till

[41:46] the 26th?

[41:48] I'm sorry, the 19th. I can I can make

[41:50] the 19th.

[41:54] » Excuse me. Do you have any conflict on

[41:56] the 19?

[41:57] >> Not that I know of. I I would have to

[41:59] look.

[42:02] » I'm just shooting for the hip, too.

[42:06] I'm available on that. I have my phone

[42:08] or home. So,

[42:11] >> calendar.

[42:12] >> I don't know. Do you have anything in

[42:14] your way?

[42:16] >> So, I I have to make a flight

[42:18] reservation. So, I'm going to go ahead

[42:19] and make it. Okay. And we'll try to

[42:22] schedule it the 19th or 26th. Otherwise,

[42:25] want to aim for the 19th and make sure

[42:27] everybody can make that

[42:44] time.

[42:50] » Yeah.

[42:54] Thank you.

[42:58] » And then I guess it we'd have to double

[43:00] check to see if anything is going on

[43:02] downstairs because I know when we talked

[43:05] last Yeah.

[43:07] >> on it and then

[43:09] >> Yeah.

[43:26] So, Chris, you made the comment on last

[43:28] week that that we could go down and look

[43:30] at the dailies. Is that possible for me

[43:33] to go see what the guys are doing?

[43:34] >> Yeah, I've said that multiple times.

[43:36] >> So, is are they down in your office?

[43:38] >> Yep.

[43:39] >> So, does Lauren know where they are?

[43:41] >> Yep.

[43:42] >> And so, as long as I don't take them out

[43:44] of the office, you're okay with that?

[43:45] >> Yep.

[43:46] >> Perfect.

[43:52] I didn't know if they were inside your

[43:53] office or if I knew where they were.

[43:56] >> No, they're available to anybody.

[44:01] >> I got these back on

[44:04] deal.

[44:11] [clears throat] Just where we're at with

[44:12] it up to date.

[44:25] So we're so is it we're waiting for

[44:28] water resources to connect with him.

[44:32] >> That's makes sense.

[44:39] I drove down there. It's a really nice

[44:43] >> Yeah.

[44:47] That's all I got.

[44:49] >> Okay.

[44:49] >> Thanks, guys.

[44:50] >> Thank you.

[45:02] session. So I'm requesting an executive

[45:04] session uh under the non-elected

[45:07] personnel to discuss

[45:10] a9 employees museum for 10 minutes with

[45:13] Jody and myself.

[45:19] So I'll make a motion to move into

[45:21] executive session under non-elected

[45:24] personnel regarding a 998 museum

[45:28] employee to include Tammy Cox and Jody

[45:32] and the commissioner

[45:34] resume in the commission room and how

[45:36] many

[45:38] >> 10 minutes they'll resume at 8:55.

[45:44] >> I'll second that. Is there any

[45:46] discussion?

[45:48] All those in favor?

[55:00] Okay. I'll make a motion for HR to close

[55:03] the contract with the museum employee or

[55:06] 999

[55:07] museum employee effective today.

[55:12] >> I will second that.

[55:16] We don't want to specify in the

[55:18] discussion. Do we want to specify that

[55:20] she's out of ours?

[55:22] She is. She would exceed her 999

[55:25] contract. She's at the end of her 999

[55:28] contract.

[55:30] >> You can make that statement if you want.

[55:33] [laughter]

[55:35] » Okay. I guess that was during the

[55:37] comment section. That's during

[55:38] discussion.

[55:41] Any other discussion?

[55:45] Those in favor?

[55:46] >> I

[55:50] we thank her for her diligence and

[55:52] perseverance. She's been a great

[55:54] employee

[55:55] >> and the work she's done at the museum

[55:57] has been really nice.

[55:59] >> We look forward to keeping the museum

[56:02] open through volunteer work and through

[56:05] her her efforts

[56:08] just so we get established as a 501c3.

[56:10] Life will be good again.

[56:16] Should we make that comment about our

[56:18] intention of the museum is just to

[56:22] when they become a 501c3

[56:24] that

[56:26] basically everything is going to the

[56:30] 501c3 other than the building which will

[56:32] maintain insurance on.

[56:35] >> Uh say that again. I said maybe we

[56:37] should just make that statement that

[56:39] everything is going to the 501c3

[56:43] except for the building which we will

[56:45] pay insurance on.

[56:46] >> Okay. Yeah, I think you just did.

[56:50] >> Just to clarify, I documented that that

[56:53] was our intent. So they they know it as

[56:55] well as everyone else.

[56:56] >> Anything pertinent to the operation of

[56:57] the museum will be maintained by the

[56:59] 501c3

[57:01] county museum, whatever they call it,

[57:03] >> will be given over to them. Yeah.

[57:08] Okay,

[57:11] next up is the sales tax collection.

[57:18] » We have some discussion about that.

[57:20] We've got the resolution in front of us.

[57:23] I did uh retap. You asked me to retap

[57:27] Jeff

[57:35] and he was uh

[57:38] so at the back is where I reached out to

[57:39] Jeff. I think

[57:42] maybe at the very bottom

[57:46] I said Kevin forwarded this. I forwarded

[57:49] this to Jeff.

[58:00] So Jeff, so I've heard the resolution is

[58:02] presented to Jeff and on this back page

[58:04] at the very top, it was Jeff's response.

[58:08] He kind of questioned the wording of it.

[58:12] And so I sent his

[58:14] to Kevin

[58:18] and I said, "What do you think?" And at

[58:21] the very top he said, "I think the

[58:23] property tax reduction is is a

[58:25] permissionable purpose and the proposed

[58:27] language would require the property tax

[58:31] being used to use for the county

[58:34] hospital to be reduced." And then he

[58:36] proposed an alternative language, but I

[58:38] like I if you read through that, I I

[58:40] like that less than the original

[58:42] language. So

[58:44] you can read through it real quick and

[58:46] compare it.

[58:52] Now, the top page, the back of the top

[58:55] page, is that from Jeff?

[58:57] >> That was from Jeff.

[58:58] >> Yeah.

[58:59] >> So, the top page at the back.

[59:01] >> Yeah.

[59:02] >> Where he says, "I'm not an expert, but I

[59:03] do question the language."

[59:05] >> So then I sent that I forwarded that to

[59:08] Kevin,

[59:09] >> right,

[59:09] >> with Gilmore Gilmore Bell.

[59:12] >> Okay.

[59:13] >> And then he sent this back. He thought

[59:15] it was okay. or if you prefer this other

[59:17] language, but when I compare it, I like

[59:20] the original language better. So, you

[59:22] can read through and see what you think.

[59:26] » Is today the absolute drop deadline,

[59:29] Tammy? It's not.

[59:33] >> Um, I will say I still have concerns

[59:35] with the wording myself because again,

[59:38] this will not reduce property taxes for

[59:41] years to come,

[59:42] >> right?

[59:43] >> Because of the way it's selected.

[59:47] Right. So, I'm agreeing with Jeff here

[59:49] and that by saying that that's not true

[59:52] and that's not what we're doing.

[59:55] >> Well, it says 25% of the sales tax

[59:57] proceeds applied to reduce property

[59:59] currently financing the current

[1:00:00] hospital. That's just saying 25% of it

[1:00:03] will go against what we're currently

[1:00:05] financing that.

[1:00:06] >> But that will not happen for years,

[1:00:08] >> right? We'll collect that sales tax for

[1:00:10] a year before we ever see a savings

[1:00:13] >> and then you got to wait another year

[1:00:14] for It'll be two years before you can

[1:00:16] actually

[1:00:18] >> be 2028.

[1:00:19] >> Well, I was thinking if it this says

[1:00:21] that we'll start collecting April 1st. I

[1:00:25] did send this to this question

[1:00:29] as well to Kevin Cohen.

[1:00:35] So I said, we start collecting the tax on

[1:00:42] April 1. Can we wait and distribute

[1:00:45] those monies to 2028? That is what I

[1:00:48] anticipate. And he goes, "Yes, I think

[1:00:50] you can wait and make and it makes sense

[1:00:52] to wait for the reasons that you

[1:00:53] provide.

[1:00:55] If the tax commences for one, the county

[1:00:58] likely will not see a significant

[1:00:59] distributions in the second half of the

[1:01:01] year anyway as a processing is in a

[1:01:03] rears for a few months.

[1:01:06] So he's saying we can accumulate it in

[1:01:08] 2027 and then apply it to the

[1:01:11] distribution in 2028

[1:01:13] but it won't be a full

[1:01:17] >> right but it will be um whatever has

[1:01:20] been collected that 25% of it.

[1:01:24] >> So you're going to have to budget the

[1:01:27] full six mills and not account for any

[1:01:30] sales tax. You won't be able to adjust a

[1:01:34] budget until 2029.

[1:01:36] >> Well, 2028,

[1:01:38] I guess we'll just see what comes in if

[1:01:41] it starts April 1st and I assume you

[1:01:45] when you receive the the sales tax

[1:01:47] dollars, Jody, and does it break out? I

[1:01:51] guess right now all we do is get one.

[1:01:54] Were you here when we used to have the

[1:01:55] jail sales tax?

[1:02:00] I don't know how the two sales stacks

[1:02:02] are accounted are distributed

[1:02:05] separately. Does does it say

[1:02:06] >> Well, I know Tammy has asked how that's

[1:02:08] going to work, how we're going to

[1:02:10] receive the money, how we're going to

[1:02:11] distribute the money, and nobody has to

[1:02:13] help answer that.

[1:02:14] >> Well, he answers a question about when

[1:02:16] we can make the distribution.

[1:02:19] >> So, the key thing is that um he's saying

[1:02:22] it's in a rear. So, well, I mean, we're

[1:02:24] just going to have to do an estimate

[1:02:27] uh in 2027

[1:02:29] when we're doing the 2028 budget

[1:02:33] and be conservative obviously.

[1:02:36] >> What what do you mean? You mean what?

[1:02:39] Because so what's going to happen? So,

[1:02:40] the way it works is the appropriations.

[1:02:44] >> Correct. And that's why I said, is it

[1:02:47] okay if we hold the money in 2027

[1:02:50] and make the distribution in 2028?

[1:02:53] >> What are you talking about? The

[1:02:54] distribution of the tax money or the

[1:02:56] appropriation just to make sure.

[1:02:57] >> The appropriation.

[1:02:58] >> Okay. So, as a hospital that

[1:03:01] >> Well, it's going to be at the same time.

[1:03:05] It's not It's going against their

[1:03:07] appropriation,

[1:03:08] >> right? But I give their maybe I'm not

[1:03:11] understanding correctly, but I give

[1:03:12] their appropriation February. What I'm

[1:03:14] hearing is we won't give them the

[1:03:16] appropriation in February.

[1:03:18] >> Yeah, we will.

[1:03:19] >> Okay. That's that's what I was hearing

[1:03:21] was we're not hearing

[1:03:22] >> and that's why we're going to collect it

[1:03:23] all of 2027.

[1:03:25] And so when we plan the budget year of

[1:03:28] 2028,

[1:03:30] we will have to be conservative in our

[1:03:33] estimate of what that revenue will be.

[1:03:35] It might be more, but we'll just have to

[1:03:37] be conservative. The key thing to me,

[1:03:40] Jody, is how they the state will send

[1:03:43] you the monies

[1:03:45] >> because in the past they used to have

[1:03:49] the two separate sales tax anyway. You

[1:03:52] had the sales tax for the jail and you

[1:03:54] had the sales the general sales tax.

[1:03:57] >> Yeah. I've just been waiting for

[1:03:58] guidance on somebody to tell me how this

[1:04:00] is

[1:04:01] >> well do I have to create a fund? Do I

[1:04:03] have to account for this a special way?

[1:04:06] Nobody's been able to answer any

[1:04:07] questions on any of this.

[1:04:09] >> Okay. So, based on what he says is that

[1:04:11] we're going to hold it all.

[1:04:12] >> Yeah. It doesn't answer my question. It

[1:04:14] does not answer anything that I just

[1:04:16] said.

[1:04:16] >> Well, it's basically saying that you're

[1:04:18] going to we're not going to do the

[1:04:19] distributions.

[1:04:21] >> Yeah. That's not what I'm asking.

[1:04:22] >> Well, you're going to accumulate it in a

[1:04:25] separate fund because

[1:04:27] >> nobody has directly told me that I need

[1:04:29] to plan to create a new fund to account

[1:04:33] for this money. Nobody has given any

[1:04:35] guidance on how we are collecting this

[1:04:39] money and how we are distributing it.

[1:04:43] There's been zero guidance.

[1:04:46] >> Well, I mean just because it's a special

[1:04:50] use sales tax, it will have to be in a

[1:04:52] separate use fund because it can't be

[1:04:54] used for general fund purposes. So,

[1:04:56] it'll have to be you'll have to set up a

[1:04:58] separate fund. We'll set up a separate

[1:05:00] fund in the budget for it and the

[1:05:03] distribution will be in uh February 2028

[1:05:07] just like we've done in the past, but it

[1:05:09] won't come from that fund.

[1:05:13] We won't have any money. Well,

[1:05:16] >> in 2028.

[1:05:18] >> Well, you're talking in 28. But but then

[1:05:20] are we pulling it from where we usually

[1:05:22] pull the appropriation and then re

[1:05:25] >> we could do that money.

[1:05:26] >> We could do either one. We could do a

[1:05:28] direct distribution out of that fund or

[1:05:30] we could transfer it to the general fund

[1:05:32] and but either way it's going to work.

[1:05:34] But the to answer your question Jody yes

[1:05:37] we have to keep that in a separate fund

[1:05:39] because it has a special use.

[1:05:42] >> I'm saying distributing it

[1:05:45] >> in and according to Kevin distributing

[1:05:48] in February is fine.

[1:05:50] >> You won't have a full year's worth

[1:05:52] >> correct

[1:05:53] >> of funding.

[1:05:54] >> Correct. And that's why we'll have to be

[1:05:56] conservative when we're estimating the

[1:05:58] revenues from that in the 2028 budget.

[1:06:01] >> I guess I guess the workings of it too

[1:06:03] because then we talk about EMS. So are

[1:06:05] we basically going to clear out that

[1:06:07] account every time? I mean and do you

[1:06:10] know the actual answers to these? Are we

[1:06:11] just guessing this? We can't guess when

[1:06:13] it comes to audits and all those things.

[1:06:15] Like, do you know for a fact through

[1:06:18] government law that we can take that

[1:06:20] money and re um put that money back into

[1:06:24] our general fund for the special use or

[1:06:26] does it have a special use?

[1:06:28] >> I think it'll continue to stay this

[1:06:30] special use fund. We would never I don't

[1:06:32] think we would ever

[1:06:33] >> How are we saving any money out of it?

[1:06:35] Because

[1:06:35] >> because we're because instead of taking

[1:06:37] six mills out of the general fund, for

[1:06:39] example, we take four mills out of the

[1:06:41] general fund and two mills out of the

[1:06:44] special use tax fund.

[1:06:46] It's just two separate funds. It It's

[1:06:48] not that simple. And that's what we're

[1:06:50] trying to say. It's not that simple from an accounting standpoint. It's not

[1:06:55] that simple.

[1:06:56] >> Well, other counties have this. other

[1:06:58] counties use

[1:06:59] >> and I've said that but what we've asked

[1:07:01] for is guidance because we're not the

[1:07:03] ones having these discussions we're

[1:07:05] asking for guidance I I said last

[1:07:07] meeting I know we're not reinventing the

[1:07:08] wheel here we just need to have that

[1:07:11] information in place before we just

[1:07:14] we're asking questions we're not getting

[1:07:16] answers

[1:07:16] >> well I just told you that to me it's

[1:07:18] obvious that we have to have a special

[1:07:20] fund for it because it's a special use

[1:07:23] sales tax I answered that question

[1:07:25] >> right but I thought that wasn't my

[1:07:27] question you the appropriation part of

[1:07:28] it and you're talking about how to take

[1:07:30] mills in and out and I'm saying it's not

[1:07:32] that

[1:07:32] >> well yeah if it's six mills if you

[1:07:35] distribute four out of the general fund

[1:07:36] and two out of that fund why is that

[1:07:39] complicated

[1:07:40] >> you've never done an appropriation

[1:07:42] before it's it's a little more

[1:07:44] complicated than that from my end so

[1:07:46] that's what we're looking for is we're

[1:07:47] looking for

[1:07:48] >> that's how it'll be done because we will

[1:07:50] want to keep those funds separate by law

[1:07:54] and that's when you look at other

[1:07:56] counties that have a your sales tax.

[1:07:58] They have a special fund for it.

[1:08:03] » This does not have to be decided today

[1:08:05] yet, does it?

[1:08:06] >> Not yet. Nope.

[1:08:07] >> I'd prefer to have Scotty on vote for

[1:08:10] it.

[1:08:10] >> Well, we asked him we asked him at that

[1:08:13] last meeting if he was okay with this

[1:08:16] resolution as presented and he said yes.

[1:08:20] >> When is the date that we have for drop?

[1:08:24] >> It's not a there's not a statuto date.

[1:08:26] um before you know I have to have balls

[1:08:29] up 45 days ahead of time.

[1:08:31] >> Um I believe I will get the full list. I

[1:08:34] mean we still have at least one more

[1:08:36] Monday.

[1:08:36] >> Okay.

[1:08:37] >> Um it kind of depends on when I get the

[1:08:39] complete list. I believe September 11th

[1:08:41] is the cut off cut off date, but I don't

[1:08:43] know that for a fact off the top of my

[1:08:45] head. Um but that is a Friday of next

[1:08:48] week. So I hope that balance. Well, last

[1:08:52] week I specifically asked God if he was

[1:08:54] okay with this resolution so we could

[1:08:56] move forward

[1:09:00] » and I did not change this resolution

[1:09:02] from the one that he present that was

[1:09:04] presented to him.

[1:09:07] >> It sounds like a lot of things are being

[1:09:08] presented here that Scott may not be

[1:09:10] aware of. You know the complication on

[1:09:12] Tammy's end. She's down a person in her

[1:09:16] office.

[1:09:17] >> This this distribution isn't even going

[1:09:18] to happen till 2028. Dwayne.

[1:09:21] >> Yeah,

[1:09:25] I prefer

[1:09:28] Tammy. Will it cause you any problem if

[1:09:30] we kick it down the road to the next

[1:09:32] meeting which be?

[1:09:33] >> It won't cause me any problems now.

[1:09:35] >> It won't be. It won't be till the 14th.

[1:09:39] >> It'll be the 14th of September,

[1:09:43] >> which would be probably the last day.

[1:09:45] So, I said the 11th, but that is a

[1:09:47] Friday when we'll probably get the

[1:09:50] confirmation of the candidates from the

[1:09:52] Secretary of State's office because

[1:09:54] there's an appeal process after they

[1:09:55] certify. So, 14th would be the deadline.

[1:09:59] >> 14.

[1:10:00] >> I can promise you it wouldn't be past

[1:10:01] that day.

[1:10:04] >> Okay.

[1:10:07] It sounds like there's a lot of things

[1:10:08] maybe on Tammy and Jod's end that aren't

[1:10:10] falling together the way it should.

[1:10:13] >> Okay. But you have to remember they are

[1:10:15] totally on the distribution side and the

[1:10:18] accounting side. It has nothing to do

[1:10:19] with the resolution side.

[1:10:24] » I'm

[1:10:26] if it will work for

[1:10:29] the clerk of the treasur, I'd like to

[1:10:32] have Scott involved in it.

[1:10:37] Well, I would I'm going to make a motion

[1:10:39] to approve resolution 2613

[1:10:42] as presented.

[1:10:46] » Is there a second?

[1:10:54] » Motion died for last second.

[1:10:59] The final sale start discussion will

[1:11:01] take place on September

[1:11:04] 14th.

[1:11:13] something we might do before then if um

[1:11:16] if we can get some of those questions

[1:11:18] answered just so I mean might as well

[1:11:20] have them so me and have everything set

[1:11:21] up ahead of time because I don't know if

[1:11:22] we have to those are some of those walls

[1:11:25] I'm not sure of

[1:11:31] » Could you turn the blower off Tammy

[1:11:33] >> I sure having a little trouble hearing.

[1:11:39] » Okay, we want to move on to the consent

[1:11:42] agenda.

[1:11:45] I'll move to approve the consent agenda

[1:11:47] which includes accounts payable for

[1:11:49] 328,885

[1:11:52] and59 cents which includes the $38,000

[1:11:57] um hospital debt for the general

[1:11:59] obligation notes the commission minutes

[1:12:02] for August 24th and the payroll for

[1:12:04] August 2026.

[1:12:09] Is there any discussion?

[1:12:13] All those in favor?

[1:12:16] >> I

[1:12:27] Tammy,

[1:12:28] >> I'm sorry. There'll be no meeting next

[1:12:30] week

[1:12:31] uh because of

[1:12:34] >> Okay.

[1:12:43] That will be

[1:12:55] » that it

[1:13:06] commissioner comments. Well, I did um I just wanted to note to the public

[1:13:13] about the uh Kansas Department of

[1:13:15] Revenue letter that we got regarding our

[1:13:18] uh compliance the uh

[1:13:21] compliance review of our uh

[1:13:25] our appraisal staff. So, I'm thankful.

[1:13:27] It says they were in substantial

[1:13:29] compliance. So, I'm thankful for our

[1:13:31] staff there for that.

[1:13:35] Um, there was a question sent to me and

[1:13:38] I'm sure I think it was No. Yeah, it was

[1:13:40] sent to all the commissioners from uh

[1:13:42] Luke Hustler with from the high school

[1:13:46] wanting to know if uh there was a

[1:13:48] foreign exchange student that we could

[1:13:51] utilize her somehow. Did you read

[1:13:53] through that joint? Did you think of

[1:13:55] anything that

[1:13:58] >> I'm had a question, you know, if they

[1:14:01] can explore our local government, but I

[1:14:04] don't know how it would relate to

[1:14:05] theirs. I guess maybe their, you know,

[1:14:07] that type of thing.

[1:14:08] >> Yeah, I didn't know maybe um maybe to

[1:14:11] send this on to choose Ottawa County. I

[1:14:13] don't know if they would somehow be able

[1:14:15] to use her.

[1:14:17] >> What are your thoughts about that?

[1:14:19] >> That would be good. Yeah,

[1:14:20] >> it was sent to all the other county

[1:14:22] departments as well, so it might

[1:14:25] Oh, it just listed mine only listed you

[1:14:28] and Jody and the three commissioners.

[1:14:31] >> Yeah, I plan to kind of move it forward

[1:14:33] too, but I figured that was

[1:14:34] >> You did forward it.

[1:14:36] >> No, I plan to.

[1:14:38] >> Were you going to send it to Choose

[1:14:39] Ottawa County?

[1:14:40] >> No. Okay, I'll forward it to Choose

[1:14:42] Ottawa County and see if maybe they

[1:14:46] could somehow use her. You never know.

[1:14:49] She might be this talented great writer.

[1:14:52] I think it's for county government,

[1:14:53] isn't it? Maybe if I read the email.

[1:14:55] >> Well, she said she wanted to study

[1:14:57] political science,

[1:14:58] >> right?

[1:15:01] >> So, I don't know how she was all I mean,

[1:15:03] >> you don't think that ties to local

[1:15:05] government?

[1:15:07] >> Not as much. Not as much as I think I

[1:15:09] think is the intent. Um,

[1:15:12] I had planned to reach out because

[1:15:13] political science with the election

[1:15:15] administration and some of the things I

[1:15:17] do in my office kind of see what the

[1:15:18] hours would be and

[1:15:19] >> so so you're going to reach out and also

[1:15:22] um you're going to send it to other

[1:15:24] department heads.

[1:15:27] >> That's

[1:15:28] I haven't had I haven't had I've read

[1:15:30] it. I have ideas. I'm not going to say

[1:15:34] for sure. I mean I want to I just

[1:15:36] >> Okay. Well, I appreciate you doing that

[1:15:38] just to kind of see if you know if it

[1:15:41] can be used.

[1:15:44] >> Okay. So, the bi-weekly reports,

[1:15:47] um, did you say I sent a second email

[1:15:49] out about that, Dwayne? So, they were saying that um Tammy and Chris

[1:15:55] came in that afternoon and said that

[1:15:57] what I presented in my email did not

[1:16:01] agree with what they remembered and

[1:16:03] there was no video of the meeting for me

[1:16:05] to look at to say

[1:16:07] u what did or didn't not happen. Do you

[1:16:10] believe that what I sent out was

[1:16:12] contradictory to what we said?

[1:16:15] I think it was I think we're getting

[1:16:17] into a micromanaging area here and I've

[1:16:21] done some soularching over the weekend

[1:16:24] and in my career at Beachcraft I was

[1:16:27] responsible for every hour that I worked

[1:16:29] to my supervisor.

[1:16:32] I think what and that's what I had that

[1:16:35] we were accountable the workers were

[1:16:37] accountable to us for every hour that

[1:16:38] they worked but they have a department

[1:16:40] head in there that can give us those

[1:16:42] figures and we don't need to know on a

[1:16:45] daily basis. I don't think what goes on a daily basis.

[1:16:50] What I equated it to in my career at

[1:16:53] Beachcraft, we would have a subsidiary

[1:16:55] company out here that was producing

[1:16:57] parts for us. They operated totally um

[1:17:02] away from the company, no supervision

[1:17:04] until the parts didn't come in. And then

[1:17:07] we would want to know why. We would want

[1:17:09] to report. We want to know what what was

[1:17:11] wrong. And I think, you know, that is

[1:17:14] the case that we operate by. I live by

[1:17:17] the phone, the fact that my phone

[1:17:18] doesn't ring. You know, it the job must

[1:17:21] be doing well. If we hear a complaint

[1:17:24] from a constituent,

[1:17:27] we

[1:17:28] can call that department head or have

[1:17:32] them call the department head. If we

[1:17:34] call it, they call, we call back because

[1:17:37] ultimately it's the department head that

[1:17:39] is responsible for those decisions. But

[1:17:42] how do we know what they do?

[1:17:45] >> We don't have to know unless there's a

[1:17:46] problem.

[1:17:46] >> We don't have to know. You know, we are

[1:17:49] the direct supervisor for the

[1:17:51] non-elected department heads. And when

[1:17:54] and um so you saying I just trust. I

[1:17:59] mean, I'm a trust and verify Reagan

[1:18:01] person. You trust? Yep. Verify. I trust.

[1:18:04] Yes, they're doing good. But I verify.

[1:18:08] >> So, let me give you my example. So uh

[1:18:13] what so let's use our agenda for an

[1:18:15] example. You could say I approve the

[1:18:18] consent agenda or do you approve the

[1:18:20] consent agenda which included these

[1:18:22] minutes and this uh accounts payable for

[1:18:25] a certain amount of money. I mean it's just a more specific it's not

[1:18:30] detail by detail but it's it's more

[1:18:32] specific than we approved the consent

[1:18:35] agenda. Well, that's not um

[1:18:41] it doesn't really tell you much detail.

[1:18:42] Or let's say from the road and bridge

[1:18:44] standpoint, they say they make a report

[1:18:47] that says, and this didn't happen, but

[1:18:49] let's say they said we put a culvert in.

[1:18:53] Well, I'd be want to know where the

[1:18:54] culver went. Or we put a ditch in. Well,

[1:18:57] I would like to know where ditch work is

[1:18:58] because I remember Joe making that

[1:19:00] comment that the entire county needs

[1:19:02] ditch work. So, I would like to know

[1:19:03] where that ditch work is.

[1:19:07] That's that's how I differentiate it.

[1:19:10] Specific enough, but not crazy detail to

[1:19:14] say, "Hey, we put in this ditches along

[1:19:18] this road." That's all I'm wanting. It's

[1:19:20] not this day we put in this one. This

[1:19:22] one was put in this one.

[1:19:24] >> Why do you need that detail? Well,

[1:19:26] because when my constituents say that

[1:19:28] there's no ditches being done in their

[1:19:30] area, I can at least say I know where

[1:19:32] the ditches are being done. So, I'm

[1:19:34] hopeful they will move to your area

[1:19:35] soon.

[1:19:36] >> Have them call Joe and say, "Hey, we

[1:19:38] need ditches in our area."

[1:19:40] >> People have told me that people tell me

[1:19:42] that they go and they get on the list

[1:19:44] and they're frustrated. What What What

[1:19:46] am I supposed to do with that?

[1:19:48] >> Have them call back.

[1:19:50] I've not had that kind of problem or

[1:19:52] that kind of experience in my my area.

[1:19:54] You know, I have people that have called

[1:19:57] me about a problem, a coworker, whatever

[1:19:59] it is, and I call Joe, then I call the

[1:20:03] people back and tell them yes, they're

[1:20:04] going to be on it and they're on it and

[1:20:06] it's done.

[1:20:07] >> Well, yeah. I I I am jealous because

[1:20:11] when I say something needs to be done,

[1:20:14] it doesn't get done that next week. So,

[1:20:16] I don't know why yours gets done and

[1:20:18] mine doesn't. I didn't say it was the

[1:20:20] next week. It might be two weeks or

[1:20:23] three weeks.

[1:20:23] >> Oh, but I but that doesn't happen in my

[1:20:25] area either. I am saying that I have

[1:20:28] concerns that when I first came in two

[1:20:31] years ago

[1:20:32] >> that haven't been done. And if yours

[1:20:35] gets done at two or 3 weeks, I have a

[1:20:37] problem with that.

[1:20:39] >> And I may have thrown those numbers out.

[1:20:41] I don't know how long they got done, how

[1:20:43] long it was. I know there are jobs that

[1:20:45] are on the list that are in my area that

[1:20:47] are not done. There are many things

[1:20:49] we've talked to them about making this

[1:20:51] road greater, you know, to dig the

[1:20:53] ditch, you know, where it will keep the

[1:20:54] water from running over the road. Uh the

[1:20:58] bottom line is I think that we're

[1:21:00] getting people that are upset because of

[1:21:02] this micromanagement. They

[1:21:04] >> Who's getting upset?

[1:21:06] >> The people the workers

[1:21:07] >> that report to us. The department heads

[1:21:09] to report to us. You're afraid you we've

[1:21:11] hurt their feelings.

[1:21:13] I think they're Yeah, I think they're

[1:21:18] being micromanaged,

[1:21:19] >> but they report to us, Dwayne. Anyway, I

[1:21:24] will um since uh Chris said I can go

[1:21:27] look at the dailies.

[1:21:29] >> I will see where that work is being

[1:21:31] done. And um

[1:21:33] >> yeah, I would encourage even if you have

[1:21:36] a question over an invoice, I try and

[1:21:38] look over the invoices as soon as I get

[1:21:39] them. And then if I have a question with

[1:21:41] an invoice or for Tammy or whoever, I

[1:21:45] try and contact them one on- one in

[1:21:46] their office. And I think we go one on

[1:21:49] one in the offices. Not everybody's

[1:21:51] comfortable in an open meeting session.

[1:21:53] I think sometimes they're not maybe they

[1:21:56] have apprehension about speaking out for

[1:21:59] fear of retribute. I don't know what the

[1:22:01] problem is, why they would not want to

[1:22:03] do that. But some people are just more

[1:22:06] familiar if you just go in and talk to

[1:22:08] them one on one.

[1:22:10] >> I understand that. I send individual

[1:22:12] emails out for accounts payable all the

[1:22:14] time to for them to

[1:22:16] >> No, I mean one- on-one visual person.

[1:22:19] You don't get inflection. You don't get

[1:22:20] body language. You don't get tone in an

[1:22:22] email. You know, you just go in and just

[1:22:26] visit. You know, it's not as an

[1:22:28] interview or as a boss. It's just go in

[1:22:30] as a friend. Hey, what can I do for you?

[1:22:32] What can I help you? How does this work?

[1:22:34] You know, tell me about your your

[1:22:36] operation.

[1:22:38] What makes it better? what can make it

[1:22:41] better.

[1:22:42] >> Well, I agree with that, but I still

[1:22:44] think that we're accountable to our

[1:22:46] constituents on what's being done and

[1:22:47] what's not being done. So,

[1:22:50] anyway, I for instance, the information

[1:22:54] that Sarah gave was incredibly helpful

[1:22:57] to know what her department did the last

[1:22:59] two weeks. That was wonderful

[1:23:00] information to have what our our health

[1:23:02] department does.

[1:23:05] >> I think we could go back to the once a

[1:23:06] month and if we visit oneon one, we will

[1:23:09] the pulse of a courthouse. We'll have

[1:23:11] the pulse of the people knowing what

[1:23:13] they feel, how they feel, what they're

[1:23:15] getting done, what they're not getting

[1:23:17] done, where the problem areas are.

[1:23:21] I think it needs to be a more personal

[1:23:23] approach than than the emails or what we

[1:23:27] might have.

[1:23:30] » Well, you know, I think that it gives

[1:23:33] them an opportunity to say what all

[1:23:34] their departments do to give us so they

[1:23:37] get recognition. I think it like I said

[1:23:39] for the Ottawa for the health center it

[1:23:41] was extremely helpful to understand what

[1:23:43] they do and um

[1:23:53] » Oh, I don't have any comments. It's my

[1:23:55] turn again.

[1:23:56] >> No, I have one more comment.

[1:23:58] >> Yeah. So, I guess to wrap that up,

[1:24:00] you're saying that you just want to go

[1:24:02] back to the once a month

[1:24:04] >> for them to come in. But you said once a

[1:24:07] month. So, you guys pushed it back to

[1:24:10] once every two months.

[1:24:12] >> Let's compromise from two weeks to two

[1:24:14] months in the middle. Once a month, it

[1:24:16] wouldn't have to come in. I think if

[1:24:18] they can submit a good writing, you

[1:24:20] know, of what they have done, you know,

[1:24:21] summary of what they have accomplished

[1:24:23] in their time frame, you know, we don't

[1:24:26] need to know how many tags Jody sold.

[1:24:29] >> I don't care about that either.

[1:24:30] >> Yeah. But what they have done, you know,

[1:24:34] I Let's try it that way.

[1:24:36] >> Okay. I'm perfectly fine with the once a

[1:24:38] month.

[1:24:39] >> Okay. And it could be a written report

[1:24:41] and that would be fine.

[1:24:43] >> Okay. So, the one last thing I have is I

[1:24:47] think we have to revisit the jail. So, I

[1:24:49] think we need to have the sheriff come

[1:24:50] back in.

[1:24:53] >> I don't have my phone.

[1:24:59] » You want him to come up and talk?

[1:25:00] >> Yes. If we're going to talk about the

[1:25:02] jail, I think he's going to want to be

[1:25:04] here. Are you guys wanting me to call

[1:25:06] him?

[1:25:06] >> Yes, please.

[1:25:08] Scott's not here to call him.

[1:25:10] >> Yeah.

[1:25:11] >> Scott always does the calling. I was

[1:25:13] halfway here before I realized, oh, I

[1:25:15] don't have my phone.

[1:25:16] >> Oh, you didn't bring your phone?

[1:25:17] >> I don't have my phone.

[1:25:18] >> I did that one time and I didn't have

[1:25:20] this phone hooked up and I had to go

[1:25:22] down and use Tammy's phone and say,

[1:25:25] "Help."

[1:25:26] >> I'm going to call my wife and say, "I am

[1:25:27] leaving if I'm not home in 10 minutes.

[1:25:29] Come find me because I' got a flat tire.

[1:25:31] I'm in a ditch or something."

[1:25:38] » He did not respond. He didn't. I saw him

[1:25:41] walk by there.

[1:25:42] >> He might be busier in court.

[1:25:45] >> Is that something we need to put on the

[1:25:46] agenda?

[1:25:47] >> No, I think we have to talk about it now

[1:25:49] because uh we made a decision last week

[1:25:52] and I and we made a decision last week

[1:25:55] without numbers and that is

[1:26:00] that should not happen.

[1:26:02] Do you want to call Terry and let her

[1:26:04] know that we're disc

[1:26:15] but I believe in court. So I don't know

[1:26:18] that that's something that could be

[1:26:27] Are you guys wanting to take a break to

[1:26:28] see if we can't get a hold of him?

[1:26:32] See,

[1:26:34] >> Carla, are you wanting to take a break

[1:26:36] to see if we need to get a hold of them?

[1:26:38] >> Yeah, I guess we could do that.

[1:26:39] >> That might be kind of a better option to

[1:26:41] give us time to

[1:26:42] >> Let's see. Where is So,

[1:26:45] >> there you give a 10-minute break.

[1:26:48] >> Is that what you need for 10 minutes?

[1:26:50] >> Well, we can take 10 minutes. See if we

[1:26:51] can find the sheriff. Is that what you

[1:26:53] mean?

[1:26:54] >> We'll take I move we take 10 minute

[1:26:55] break.

[1:26:56] >> Okay.

[1:26:57] >> At 9, we'll resume at 9

[1:27:00] >> 38. Yeah,

[1:27:04] >> I'll

[1:36:54] audio

[1:37:07] back to the recess.

[1:37:10] Was anybody able to get a hold of

[1:37:12] sheriff?

[1:37:13] >> No.

[1:37:13] >> Okay.

[1:37:14] >> So, I did leave a message at dispatch

[1:37:16] that if they see the sheriff that we're

[1:37:18] discussing it.

[1:37:20] >> So, on Wednesday,

[1:37:22] we discussed uh opening the jail back up

[1:37:26] and uh we actually voted for that but we

[1:37:29] didn't really have the financial impact

[1:37:32] to really look at to see what it looked

[1:37:34] like and um so over the weekend I went

[1:37:38] back to the sheriff's calculation you

[1:37:40] know on Wednesday he didn't give us any

[1:37:42] financial information

[1:37:44] and so I went back to the housing for

[1:37:47] Sedu County information that he gave us

[1:37:49] initially did you still have that or I

[1:37:51] made you a copy right now

[1:37:53] >> okay

[1:37:55] Did you have that here? I did. I made

[1:37:56] you a copy right now. So, that was what

[1:37:58] he presented to us. I I think it was in

[1:38:02] July, like July 24th or 17th, something

[1:38:05] like that. So, this is his information

[1:38:08] that he provided.

[1:38:10] And um he was saying to reopen the jail

[1:38:14] was going to cost $635,000.

[1:38:18] And um

[1:38:21] that was a a staff of eight. And then I

[1:38:26] sent an email to him and he said, "Well,

[1:38:29] anything over the 30 mark, 30 inmates."

[1:38:33] And he said, "Actually, there should be

[1:38:35] three anytime it's 20 or more." So, in

[1:38:38] each of those shifts, we would go from

[1:38:41] eight employees to 12 employees. And I

[1:38:45] wasn't quite sure on Wednesday, did did

[1:38:48] he want to hire 12? Was that the

[1:38:50] discussion? Ultimately,

[1:38:54] I think he will be at 12, but I don't

[1:38:56] think he initially needs 12 to get one

[1:39:01] pod open in the jail.

[1:39:03] >> That was my understanding.

[1:39:05] >> So, anyway, so he wrote that email back

[1:39:08] saying anything over 20, he would need

[1:39:11] three. So, he has four shifts. So, that

[1:39:14] would be four. So, his his stacking

[1:39:17] would go from 8 to 12. And then the he

[1:39:22] included in this analysis like o

[1:39:25] overtime budgeted overtime and budgeted

[1:39:27] shift differential. But what he didn't

[1:39:29] include was the cost of benefits for

[1:39:31] those 12 employees. So what I did on my

[1:39:34] spreadsheet which is was really quick

[1:39:37] was to take his beginning number

[1:39:40] that he had on his that he presented to

[1:39:43] us two months ago

[1:39:46] month and a half ago. um to get roll it

[1:39:50] from the eight staff he had to the 12

[1:39:53] staff and add the benefits. So at that

[1:39:56] point it cost about 1.1 million to run

[1:39:59] the jail

[1:40:01] uh for those for that staffing of 12

[1:40:04] employees.

[1:40:06] And then I pulled the numbers from the

[1:40:09] 22 budget and the 23 budget to

[1:40:13] understand if that was just a crazy

[1:40:15] number and it's really not. I mean look

[1:40:16] at the 23 budget numbers. Um they

[1:40:20] budgeted $928,000 of expenses. So the

[1:40:24] fact that what four four years late

[1:40:27] three years later it'd be a million one

[1:40:29] probably isn't that crazy out of line.

[1:40:32] So then you know he said that we're

[1:40:35] going to get $60 a day and he was aiming

[1:40:39] for 30 inmates. Well 30 inmates at $60 a

[1:40:43] day for every day. if we have that many

[1:40:46] every day is going to generate $657,000.

[1:40:51] And so then I said, well, so what at

[1:40:54] what point do we break even

[1:40:58] to cover we so we have the cost of our

[1:41:00] inmates saving that 43,000 and that was

[1:41:02] based on his number as well.

[1:41:05] And so

[1:41:08] um

[1:41:09] so I said what is it taking in

[1:41:12] consideration that inmate savings what

[1:41:13] would we need to break even on the jail

[1:41:16] and it would be 48 inmates and I'm

[1:41:18] thinking well by the time we have 48

[1:41:19] inmates we don't have room for our

[1:41:22] inmates and because he said it was only

[1:41:24] whole 55 and we would probably have to

[1:41:27] go staffing from

[1:41:29] three per session to four per session.

[1:41:32] So then you have the additional staffing

[1:41:35] numbers. So

[1:41:38] I guess you know what I saw was um the

[1:41:41] break even point based on his

[1:41:43] calculation

[1:41:45] was $55 a day if we only had eight, but

[1:41:49] he did not have the benefits included in

[1:41:51] that. And then I sent him back and I

[1:41:55] said, "Well, if you add one staff, your

[1:41:58] break even point is $65 a day.

[1:42:02] But you really aren't just hiring one

[1:42:04] staff. You're wanting one staff per

[1:42:06] shift, which is 12. So then our break

[1:42:09] even becomes $80 a day.

[1:42:13] So we would actually need to have $80 a

[1:42:15] day

[1:42:18] for 30 inmates

[1:42:23] for every day at 30 to cover our cost.

[1:42:29] Did that calculate for you?

[1:42:32] >> Okay.

[1:42:33] >> 876,000.

[1:42:37] » So, I know that. So, this is the way I'm

[1:42:40] looking at it. Right now, our cost

[1:42:44] is $43,000 to house our inmates.

[1:42:50] That That's our cost.

[1:42:53] And what we're doing is we're going to

[1:42:55] open a jail to provide services for

[1:42:59] other counties

[1:43:02] and we're going to put that loss on our

[1:43:06] taxpayers.

[1:43:08] That doesn't make sense to me.

[1:43:14] If it was to house our inmates, I

[1:43:17] understand we don't have to break even.

[1:43:18] That is something we have to provide.

[1:43:21] So, but this is not What we're proposing

[1:43:23] to do is not providing housing for our

[1:43:27] inmates. It's h helping Sichu County.

[1:43:30] And so by us operating at a loss, we're

[1:43:34] carrying their burden of inmates and

[1:43:38] losing money for our constituents.

[1:43:41] And it doesn't make sense to me.

[1:43:46] » I see the dollars don't add up on a

[1:43:49] spreadsheet.

[1:43:56] I guess I got kind of alarmed because I

[1:43:59] was saying, well, you know, his number

[1:44:02] even 30 inmates, that's $657,000.

[1:44:07] If you're he's hiring if he's having a

[1:44:09] staff at 12, we're still going to lose

[1:44:11] half a million dollars.

[1:44:16] I don't understand why we would take

[1:44:18] that burden

[1:44:21] that when it's another county's inmate

[1:44:24] solution.

[1:44:32] » Have you run the numbers if the jail is

[1:44:36] full at I didn't see it on there. Okay.

[1:44:38] 48 48 inmates at $60 a day

[1:44:42] >> would be the break in at 60. But then,

[1:44:45] you know, he said that he only holds 55.

[1:44:48] So, that would only leave seven for our

[1:44:50] inmates.

[1:44:51] >> And I think that's about what we have is

[1:44:53] five, seven inmates.

[1:44:57] >> Yeah.

[1:44:58] >> But even if we go to 48 or 55, including

[1:45:03] our own, our staffing is going to go

[1:45:05] from

[1:45:06] >> a staff of three. Oh, there he is.

[1:45:10] >> I was in court.

[1:45:12] And I thought that you were in court.

[1:45:14] >> Well, thanks for coming.

[1:45:16] >> Cool.

[1:45:17] >> So, so I started working on the numbers

[1:45:19] over the weekend on opening the jail.

[1:45:22] >> Uhhuh.

[1:45:23] >> And I started using your numbers

[1:45:25] >> that you gave us.

[1:45:26] >> Yes. And so when when you first prepared

[1:45:29] this,

[1:45:31] >> you were saying um

[1:45:35] you you said uh $55 a day and then I

[1:45:39] wrote you the email back

[1:45:41] >> and I said um

[1:45:46] at about my what I what I thought you

[1:45:49] didn't you didn't pick up which was

[1:45:52] benefits on the salaries. No, there was

[1:45:55] >> you picked up the overtime.

[1:45:57] >> No.

[1:45:58] >> And you picked up the shifting.

[1:45:59] >> I [clears throat] added Carla and I'm

[1:46:01] not trying to argue with you, but I

[1:46:03] added I went to Jod personally and asked

[1:46:05] her what the benefits was going to be.

[1:46:08] So on that scale, that's benefits

[1:46:11] included and the overtime is just extra

[1:46:13] on there. No, but when I do your

[1:46:15] calculation, I took all your numbers and

[1:46:18] I calculated you took like the the the

[1:46:22] pay and you took it times the number of

[1:46:24] people and you took it times the number

[1:46:26] of hours,

[1:46:28] >> but you didn't add the benefit cost in.

[1:46:30] >> The benefits are in there. I just did

[1:46:32] not add that when um and that's my bad,

[1:46:34] but it it is included in the pay. I

[1:46:38] don't have it on there. I'm just saying

[1:46:40] that when I put it in there, that was

[1:46:43] part of it. It just wasn't in that

[1:46:45] sheet.

[1:46:46] >> But all all these information, all this

[1:46:48] ties to this information.

[1:46:51] >> I understand.

[1:46:52] >> So I tied all the numbers you presented

[1:46:54] here to your financial recap.

[1:46:59] And so it it's just salaries. It's not

[1:47:02] benefits.

[1:47:03] >> There is benefits in there with them

[1:47:05] salaries. I can promise you that. I

[1:47:07] talked to to Jody and when I did the

[1:47:10] salary per person, that's including the

[1:47:14] benefits.

[1:47:14] >> Well, that can't be because I'm sorry,

[1:47:16] but 1822 an hour cannot include

[1:47:20] benefits.

[1:47:23] >> No, but the actual So, what was the

[1:47:25] actual per officer per year?

[1:47:28] >> Okay, so you have 40 hours

[1:47:31] >> Uhhuh. four weeks is so much per month

[1:47:33] and you had so much overtime,

[1:47:36] 20 hours of overtime per month.

[1:47:39] >> So it equals 13,847

[1:47:45] » and then you and then you per you had

[1:47:48] four Yeah, you had four at that rate and

[1:47:51] then your other one you had with the a

[1:47:53] cost differential in there for the night

[1:47:55] shift.

[1:47:57] So you had four at the 13847

[1:48:01] and you had So the 13847 is strictly the

[1:48:05] 822

[1:48:07] times uh 822

[1:48:11] times the 40 hours

[1:48:14] plus overtime

[1:48:16] and you take I have to look look at it.

[1:48:19] Well, I want to back up anyways because

[1:48:22] I I contacted Scott Lloyd

[1:48:25] um and he's putting some figures

[1:48:27] together for me. Uh

[1:48:30] we're

[1:48:32] still transitioning,

[1:48:34] but to the point where it's not going to

[1:48:37] if the numbers don't match up, we're not

[1:48:42] going forward.

[1:48:45] >> Well, I

[1:48:47] >> because because

[1:48:49] Um, at this point, um, I was waiting the

[1:48:53] other day when I come up and originally

[1:48:54] talked to you guys about what they were

[1:48:56] going to actually pay and a contract

[1:48:59] that I've been looking to get for two

[1:49:02] over two weeks, the first time they come

[1:49:04] in and and the contract come in finally.

[1:49:08] Um, it was about the same time that I

[1:49:10] was up here visiting you guys.

[1:49:12] >> Uhhuh. Um and I went back and talked to

[1:49:14] them and they're um at 45 is what they

[1:49:17] pay everybody per inmate per day.

[1:49:21] >> So negotiation right now with them is to

[1:49:25] pay us 55 per day per inmate and then if

[1:49:30] we get over 50 which chances probably

[1:49:34] are slim kind of um if we get over 50

[1:49:37] then we reduce it back to 45.

[1:49:40] >> Okay. So, my problem is

[1:49:42] >> is we are taking inmates from another

[1:49:45] county

[1:49:47] and we're going to put them in our jail

[1:49:49] and we're going to lose money to house

[1:49:52] them.

[1:49:52] >> You are already Okay. So, I want to I

[1:49:55] want to explain something to you and and

[1:49:57] I know that we've talked about this and

[1:49:58] I'm I'm not trying to be an ass by any

[1:50:00] means. You don't run the jail. The

[1:50:03] sheriff runs the jail. If I choose to

[1:50:05] put inmates in there, Carla, that's my

[1:50:07] choice.

[1:50:08] >> But if you We didn't budget for it.

[1:50:10] Carla, that is my choice.

[1:50:13] I'm trying to be nice and work with you

[1:50:15] guys because I don't want to cost the

[1:50:17] taxpayers cuz I'm a taxpayer. I'm not

[1:50:20] going to c charge them or cost them any

[1:50:22] more than we're doing. Okay, that's my

[1:50:25] first thing I want to make sure that

[1:50:26] everybody understands. My second thing

[1:50:28] is

[1:50:30] we're not going we are not making money

[1:50:33] now. This jail is never meant to make

[1:50:35] money. The jail is a it's something the

[1:50:38] county needs. It has to have

[1:50:40] >> I understand.

[1:50:41] >> Understand that.

[1:50:42] >> So regardless of whether we lose money,

[1:50:46] we're never going to make money off of

[1:50:48] jail. The jail was not meant to be

[1:50:51] something that we profit from.

[1:50:54] >> I understand that.

[1:50:55] >> Okay. But we're not going. So right now

[1:51:00] roughly

[1:51:02] it's costing us around $200,000

[1:51:06] the way it says.

[1:51:08] And so your 200,000 is based on

[1:51:11] >> that's based on

[1:51:13] >> employees.

[1:51:13] that's based on inmates that's

[1:51:16] based on

[1:51:17] >> plus the 43,000 a house.

[1:51:20] >> What's that

[1:51:20] >> in Mitchell County? Yeah.

[1:51:22] >> And it's closer to probably 45 to five

[1:51:25] per per month. That's [clears throat]

[1:51:27] probably the higher end of it is that um

[1:51:33] that $200,000 is also part of the actual

[1:51:37] utilities.

[1:51:39] The problem and and I get where you're

[1:51:41] coming from. I don't I'm I don't want

[1:51:42] you to think I'm coming ac across as an

[1:51:44] ass. Okay.

[1:51:48] That $200,000

[1:51:50] is also the fact that we have to have

[1:51:52] that building period. Whether we have

[1:51:54] inmates in it, whether we have inmates

[1:51:56] out of it, we have to have that

[1:51:59] building. Unless you're going to find us

[1:52:01] a different place to have our

[1:52:02] administration office, our dispatch.

[1:52:04] >> We don't.

[1:52:06] >> So, we have to have it. I get that

[1:52:07] period. Wouldn't be different than you

[1:52:09] guys had to have a room so you guys can

[1:52:11] organize this on a monthly or Monday

[1:52:14] every morning. Monday morning. So, that

[1:52:16] has to happen. So out of that $200,000

[1:52:20] included in that is the building itself

[1:52:23] to operate

[1:52:25] the utilities and so forth.

[1:52:27] >> Okay. So let me get this right. So that $200,000 is our sum cost

[1:52:32] >> right now. It does not include our jail

[1:52:34] debt obviously.

[1:52:36] >> No.

[1:52:36] >> So we have that $200,000 plus a jail

[1:52:39] debt right now. Okay. I got that

[1:52:41] >> 200 yearly 35 I think what we pay,000.

[1:52:45] Yeah.

[1:52:46] I don't want to do the wrong thing,

[1:52:49] but I also want to make sure that if if

[1:52:52] it's something that we should be

[1:52:53] involved in that at least we're plugging

[1:52:57] forward with what we can. The stuff that

[1:52:59] Keith has done is stuff that should have been done anyways. Um he's

[1:53:03] changing nightlights. He's changing out

[1:53:07] uh the diaphragms for the plumbing to

[1:53:09] make sure that that works. Um because

[1:53:12] without water running through them,

[1:53:14] >> a a rubber piece goes bad.

[1:53:18] >> And unfortunately, if you don't have

[1:53:20] inmates in, they don't get flushed all

[1:53:22] the time. Therefore, they go bad. Those

[1:53:24] are I think he said 35 or $40 a piece to

[1:53:29] change out, but it need they needed to

[1:53:31] be done.

[1:53:32] >> I agree.

[1:53:33] >> Um he hasn't done

[1:53:36] anything more than what's necessary. the

[1:53:39] guys come in today to fix or to work on

[1:53:42] our camera system and our boards that

[1:53:45] we've already paid for. So,

[1:53:48] that hasn't I mean, that's not an

[1:53:50] additional cost. Um, the kitchen people,

[1:53:54] they're going to get ready to go in case

[1:53:56] they have to go. If I tell them, I've

[1:53:58] already talked to Tim with Benchmark and

[1:54:00] he said that if it doesn't if it isn't a

[1:54:02] go, just call us and let us know.

[1:54:04] >> But for right now, they're going forward

[1:54:06] with it.

[1:54:07] Um,

[1:54:09] I've contacted

[1:54:11] I've had contact with about five or six

[1:54:13] sling county deputies or corrections

[1:54:16] officers slash deputies that are willing

[1:54:18] to do part-time for me.

[1:54:21] Starting now, it's going to cost us

[1:54:23] period because we're not going to full

[1:54:26] be fully at staff for about a month at

[1:54:28] least and be able to have them work in

[1:54:31] there. They have to be trained. I have

[1:54:34] to get people hired and then get them

[1:54:36] trained. So, I mean, it's going to take

[1:54:38] a while. And I told them 12 just to get

[1:54:42] us our foot in the door.

[1:54:45] So, it's going to that for sure is not

[1:54:48] going to pay for the jail. I understand

[1:54:51] that.

[1:54:51] >> Starting out with part-time people

[1:54:55] benefits.

[1:54:55] >> Yep. Yeah.

[1:54:59] » The jail. The jail.

[1:55:01] >> Are all your Well, they can't be people

[1:55:04] that are working 40 hours and 60 hours a

[1:55:06] week

[1:55:06] >> right now or those No, no, no, no, no.

[1:55:09] That's that Carla. The only reason I got

[1:55:11] a whole I contacted I remember telling

[1:55:14] me this telling you guys this. I

[1:55:16] contacted contacted Sling County and I

[1:55:19] contacted Dickinson County and asked

[1:55:21] them if they could help another fellow

[1:55:23] sheriff out letting me borrow some of

[1:55:26] their people so we could get our jail up

[1:55:29] and operational in two weeks, which I

[1:55:33] think we could do.

[1:55:37] But then the question is in two weeks

[1:55:39] are we still I mean where are we going

[1:55:40] to be as far as our full-time staff

[1:55:43] which is on that sheet because we have

[1:55:45] to have those 10 people. So then

[1:55:47] part-time people are not part of that.

[1:55:51] make sense?

[1:55:52] >> Yes. The the um

[1:55:59] » So you're thinking you're going to have

[1:56:00] two parttime and 10 full-time?

[1:56:03] >> No.

[1:56:05] >> I'm thinking just this up and going.

[1:56:07] It's going to be primarily part-time

[1:56:09] period just so we're covered safely to

[1:56:13] monitor the inmates and to operate the

[1:56:16] jail.

[1:56:17] >> Okay. So,

[1:56:18] >> I'm I've talked to

[1:56:22] I have one kid two kids I interviewed

[1:56:24] kids. I have two people that I

[1:56:26] interviewed on Friday that could start

[1:56:30] today, one of them. Um, and then I have

[1:56:33] two interviews Thursday, I believe, with

[1:56:36] three more.

[1:56:39] But just because I interview him doesn't

[1:56:41] mean I have to that it's a tenative

[1:56:45] offer if I if I decide to hire them. So,

[1:56:48] it's it's not going to be a full offer.

[1:56:52] I guess I don't we don't do that. We do

[1:56:54] UAS and backgrounds and everything else

[1:56:56] before we give them the permanent offer.

[1:57:03] No, none of them.

[1:57:06] >> So, I said it's going it's going to be

[1:57:09] chaotic if we go forward with this, but

[1:57:11] um

[1:57:15] I don't know looking at the numbers.

[1:57:17] >> I my my break even number and that that was based on full 12 full-time

[1:57:23] people.

[1:57:24] >> My breaking even number was $80 a day.

[1:57:27] >> Yeah, you're not going to get that

[1:57:28] anywhere. I was begging and pleading

[1:57:31] just so um they would even look at this

[1:57:35] $55.

[1:57:37] >> But but

[1:57:39] I don't understand why at $55 we're

[1:57:42] going to lose a lot of money.

[1:57:44] >> What's 55? Sorry. 55. Take 55 times 50

[1:57:52] $55 a day.

[1:57:54] >> Let's just say

[1:57:55] >> hypothetically if they bring us 40. So

[1:57:57] 55 time 40.

[1:58:00] >> Okay.

[1:58:01] >> Take that times 365.

[1:58:04] >> $83,000.

[1:58:06] >> That's what you're going to at. Would

[1:58:09] you put 30 in there? 30 days

[1:58:12] >> or 30 30

[1:58:13] >> 365.

[1:58:15] >> Yeah.

[1:58:16] >> I put

[1:58:16] >> Right. Right. Right. Right.

[1:58:17] >> You told me to put 40 employees. 40 40

[1:58:20] inmates.

[1:58:20] >> Yep.

[1:58:22] >> At 55.

[1:58:22] >> 55. But if we have uh 40 inmates, your

[1:58:27] staffing is going to increase

[1:58:29] >> beyond, you know, this analysis that you

[1:58:32] did was based on eight.

[1:58:34] >> And you told me,

[1:58:35] >> not 10, right? I

[1:58:36] >> in an email that it was going to once it

[1:58:38] hit 20, you should have three per

[1:58:41] >> to be safely to operate the jail. You

[1:58:44] should have three people on.

[1:58:45] >> I agree. Because to handle a ju or to

[1:58:48] handle a juvenile to handle an adult

[1:58:49] inmate,

[1:58:51] >> you should have at least two people

[1:58:52] present when you're dealing with it.

[1:58:54] >> So the way our jail operates is is if

[1:58:58] you have two out there, you have to have

[1:58:59] the third one that operates the board to

[1:59:01] let them in and out.

[1:59:03] >> Uhuh. Makes sense.

[1:59:03] >> So can I ask a question on the

[1:59:06] calculations?

[1:59:07] So I have these right for the

[1:59:10] when you're doing the calculation of

[1:59:12] staff, is this including the staff you

[1:59:14] already have and or is that only an

[1:59:16] addition?

[1:59:17] >> No, that was additional staff. I was

[1:59:18] doing it strictly based on what the

[1:59:21] sheriff had given before. So, I I took I

[1:59:24] tried to take your numbers and roll

[1:59:26] >> I could have swore, Carla, I put um the benefits in there.

[1:59:32] >> 8 to 12, right? The additional only.

[1:59:36] >> So, when I did that number, that was

[1:59:38] eight.

[1:59:39] >> It was eight full. It was eight fulltime

[1:59:42] staff,

[1:59:42] >> right? So, what

[1:59:46] 843,000.

[1:59:48] Divide that out. It's about 47,000 per

[1:59:50] person.

[1:59:51] >> So that would be including

[1:59:55] >> it would be pretty close to it. You're

[1:59:56] right.

[1:59:57] >> So take that times five

[1:59:59] >> or take that times uh 12.

[2:00:01] >> No, you have to look at the calculation.

[2:00:03] The 381

[2:00:05] consists of

[2:00:08] the 1387

[2:00:11] per month times 12. Yeah, I think Dwayne

[2:00:14] was just putting a rough rough estimate

[2:00:16] of what it's going to cost us to employ

[2:00:19] a full-time person

[2:00:21] >> with an estimate of because my

[2:00:24] understanding from Jody it's about

[2:00:25] $20,000 per person for

[2:00:28] >> Does that sound right? I

[2:00:29] >> say 50%.

[2:00:30] >> That's what she told us is 20,000 on top

[2:00:33] of your salary.

[2:00:35] >> So you're looking at 47,000

[2:00:41] » times 12. What did you get?

[2:00:44] >> 528.

[2:00:45] >> Yeah. So then you've got to add in

[2:00:50] roughly

[2:00:52] um utilities are going to be 3,000

[2:00:57] for just the city

[2:01:00] per month.

[2:01:05] We're in in Yeah.

[2:01:10] So

[2:01:11] >> the question I guess

[2:01:12] >> is that 564 for salaries joint. Is that

[2:01:15] what you were saying?

[2:01:18] >> The the question is and this is what

[2:01:20] I've I've asked um

[2:01:25] Scott Lloyd to help me with is put it in

[2:01:28] a graph that makes a little bit more

[2:01:29] sense for you and me. Um the question I

[2:01:32] have is is we're spending

[2:01:35] $200,000. Let's just say $200,000 right

[2:01:39] now. The way it operates,

[2:01:43] if we house them at 30 to 40 inmates,

[2:01:51] are we going to be less than the

[2:01:52] 200,000?

[2:01:54] And is it going to be worth that?

[2:01:57] Because we're already spending 200,000.

[2:01:59] Correct. Right.

[2:02:00] >> Correct. So, out of those numbers that

[2:02:03] you have already poked in the end results, is that going to be

[2:02:09] better or worse than the $200,000 that

[2:02:11] we're already spending?

[2:02:15] Well, I guess when I I did it this

[2:02:18] weekend and when I added the staff at 12

[2:02:20] full-time staff and I added the

[2:02:22] benefits, I mean, at 30 at 30 inmates,

[2:02:26] we were still losing almost half a

[2:02:28] million a year at $60,

[2:02:32] >> which if your calculations is right,

[2:02:34] then that's worse.

[2:02:36] >> That's worse than what we're doing right

[2:02:38] now.

[2:02:38] >> Correct. Correct. And that's what made

[2:02:40] me concerned.

[2:02:41] >> And and Carla I've

[2:02:46] stowed over this for the last well since

[2:02:49] they come up. Just trying to put the

[2:02:51] numbers together and make sure it's the

[2:02:53] right choice.

[2:02:57] I think when when I was elected and I

[2:03:01] think talking to most they citizens what

[2:03:04] the goal was is to open back up the

[2:03:07] jail. But I don't understand why

[2:03:09] >> I

[2:03:10] >> because Carla, it's going back to the

[2:03:14] fact that I believe and this is just my

[2:03:17] opinion that

[2:03:21] for some reason people think that the

[2:03:23] jail was always making money and it

[2:03:25] never has. I've tried to explain that

[2:03:27] for for several years. We've

[2:03:30] >> we've always

[2:03:31] >> subsidized it, right?

[2:03:33] >> I understand that. I looked at the

[2:03:34] budgets. I went back and looked at the

[2:03:36] budgets for 22 and 23 and 21.

[2:03:39] >> As as an elected official, I feel it was

[2:03:42] my duty. We have an open facility over

[2:03:46] there

[2:03:47] to at least look into this and try to

[2:03:50] figure out

[2:03:52] if it's doable, if it's going to be a

[2:03:54] better option than what we're doing

[2:03:55] right now.

[2:03:56] >> I appreciate you doing that.

[2:03:58] >> As long as you tell me that we're going

[2:04:00] to look at the financial side of it. I

[2:04:02] keep hearing I want to open the jail. I

[2:04:04] think we should open the jail. And I'm

[2:04:06] like, do we open up a jail at the cost

[2:04:09] to Ottawa County when at the cost of

[2:04:11] Ottawa County?

[2:04:12] >> Absolutely not.

[2:04:13] That would be crazy to

[2:04:14] do.

[2:04:16] >> I took this home last night or over the

[2:04:19] weekend and when I'm calculating, I'm

[2:04:20] like, it doesn't make sense. And even at

[2:04:23] $60,

[2:04:26] » right? And and I could have

[2:04:30] >> But I again, I started with your calcul.

[2:04:33] I is not trying to overrule what you

[2:04:36] presented,

[2:04:36] >> right?

[2:04:38] And I don't, like I said, I don't mean

[2:04:39] to come across as a butt or and ask

[2:04:42] sometimes, but um it's it's this is I'm

[2:04:47] putting a lot of time and energy into

[2:04:49] this and and trying to figure out if

[2:04:51] it's the best. And I appreciate

[2:04:54] your input. I do. I and I'm all

[2:04:57] seriousness, but

[2:05:01] in the end game, I think it's just the

[2:05:03] better. We need to do the best thing for

[2:05:05] the citizens. We need the best thing for

[2:05:07] our county or our or jail next door. Um,

[2:05:11] and if that means leaving the way it is,

[2:05:13] then by all means, but

[2:05:19] we we could have we could have been or I

[2:05:22] could have done as other facilities have

[2:05:25] done in the last two years that we've

[2:05:27] been

[2:05:29] empty or not had inmates in. I could

[2:05:32] have employed all 12 of them and kept

[2:05:36] them on,

[2:05:38] but I didn't feel that that was right.

[2:05:41] And

[2:05:41] >> I'm glad you didn't.

[2:05:42] >> One of one of the things but here's one

[2:05:45] of the things I'm going to let you know,

[2:05:46] and I think I stressed it the other day

[2:05:47] when I was in here on the special

[2:05:50] meeting.

[2:05:52] I'm not going to hire a bunch of people

[2:05:54] and do what we did the last time and

[2:05:56] fire them. That's just not

[2:06:00] to me. That's just wrong.

[2:06:02] >> Okay. So, when I looked though, I looked

[2:06:04] at the prior years and it wasn't like

[2:06:06] you started it one year and you fired

[2:06:09] him the next year. I mean, you had the

[2:06:10] jail going for many years.

[2:06:12] >> Yeah.

[2:06:13] >> So, it wasn't like,

[2:06:15] >> but but the day that we decided to no no

[2:06:18] longer keep them in house is we let

[2:06:24] five, I do believe, go that day.

[2:06:27] >> And and so that's hard.

[2:06:29] >> Absolutely. But the other side of it is

[2:06:32] if you were losing money in the jail. So

[2:06:35] let me can you clarify something for me?

[2:06:37] [clears throat] When I looked at those

[2:06:38] old budgets and I saw that you had uh

[2:06:41] revenues of like $800,000 were those all

[2:06:44] our prisoners

[2:06:45] >> or did we were back in 22? Were you here

[2:06:49] at 22?

[2:06:50] >> Yes.

[2:06:51] >> Okay. So back in 22 did we house other

[2:06:54] people's prisoners?

[2:06:55] >> Yes.

[2:06:56] >> So we decided in 23 we had a of 23, but

[2:07:01] in 23 we must have decided to send them

[2:07:03] out.

[2:07:04] >> So at that point in time, you looked at

[2:07:07] uh you were transferring $250,000 in

[2:07:11] >> to cover your

[2:07:12] >> we were making 800

[2:07:15] 8

[2:07:16] >> to9 to 900.

[2:07:17] >> Yeah.

[2:07:18] >> So

[2:07:18] >> but you but well in that revenue one

[2:07:20] number you still hadn't had the transfer

[2:07:22] in to break even

[2:07:24] >> or to cover expenses.

[2:07:27] >> So I was I was strictly the expense side

[2:07:29] that I presented there those were our

[2:07:31] expenses. So you had the 250 going in as

[2:07:34] a revenue to off to to cover those

[2:07:36] >> to cover it. So when I look at 23,

[2:07:39] irrespective of the people, I know that

[2:07:41] sounds really harsh, but irrespective of

[2:07:42] the people, it was financially the right

[2:07:45] thing to do in 23.

[2:07:46] >> I would not agree. I would not disagree

[2:07:48] with you one bit. Um, and we did what

[2:07:51] was what we thought was the best choice

[2:07:53] for the county and

[2:07:56] >> not to waste any more money than we had

[2:07:57] to. I mean, we still have to have um

[2:08:01] >> for transport purposes and and whatnot.

[2:08:04] We still have to have at least three um

[2:08:07] cos,

[2:08:09] but I've also made it to where them CEOs

[2:08:13] can do other things other than just sit

[2:08:16] on their butt because nobody in house.

[2:08:18] What are you going to do with them? You

[2:08:20] got to do something. It's a waste of in

[2:08:23] my eyes. I mean, we have to have them

[2:08:25] period. It's kind of like

[2:08:27] >> you have to have them available.

[2:08:28] >> You have to have that building. We have

[2:08:29] to have them available. Something comes

[2:08:31] up, we have to have them to help.

[2:08:34] Um but in my eyes they it's better to

[2:08:37] have them actively doing something even

[2:08:39] if it's not.

[2:08:41] >> And the way that it's molded right now

[2:08:43] it works.

[2:08:43] >> Yeah. And I appreciate that. I think

[2:08:45] that's great. And so the 200,000 does

[2:08:48] come into play a little bit to build

[2:08:50] into my number.

[2:08:51] >> Right.

[2:08:52] >> So um but again when when even in your

[2:08:56] analysis you had 30 people every day of

[2:09:00] the year

[2:09:01] >> to make that

[2:09:03] work. But that again, that was only at

[2:09:05] 30. You said actually we should have 12

[2:09:07] staff at 30. So

[2:09:09] >> So it would be um

[2:09:11] >> and that's stretching it thin. I'm not

[2:09:12] going to lie to you. That's stretching

[2:09:13] it thin. It puts you

[2:09:16] um it's unsafe in our facility to have

[2:09:20] the 12. The 12 was

[2:09:24] my thought with the 12 is is you have to

[2:09:26] have that in order to um

[2:09:31] notoriously jails are hard to keep

[2:09:34] people that want to work or want to come

[2:09:37] in and work their shift

[2:09:39] >> because it's 24 hours a day.

[2:09:41] >> It's not 20 it's I mean it's 24 but it's

[2:09:44] 12hour shifts and and you're looking at

[2:09:47] a wall. you're babysitting adult males

[2:09:49] and it's just

[2:09:52] boring boring boring work. A lot of

[2:09:55] times it you don't do anything but stare

[2:09:57] at the wall basically

[2:10:00] uh for 12 hours. So there's times when

[2:10:02] people start

[2:10:06] calling in sick or not coming in or go

[2:10:09] elsewhere or so

[2:10:12] we need we need that leeway. We need

[2:10:14] that um for days and hours that are

[2:10:18] busier with inmates so we can build them

[2:10:21] in.

[2:10:23] >> Well,

[2:10:26] I take into consideration that 200,000

[2:10:31] it wouldn't be $80 a day, but my guess

[2:10:33] it's still going to be about $70 a day.

[2:10:36] Well, I think when you put them figures

[2:10:37] together, just a rough idea that we're still going to be

[2:10:43] I mean, we're that we're going to be

[2:10:45] over.

[2:10:47] The question is, are we going to be

[2:10:51] worse or better off than the 200 that

[2:10:53] we're already spending is my question.

[2:10:55] >> I understand that's a sunk cost. So, I

[2:10:56] have to take that out of my calculation.

[2:10:59] >> So, even so, when I do that, then um

[2:11:03] >> but I still think it's going to cost

[2:11:04] about

[2:11:06] $7 a day to break even.

[2:11:09] >> I wouldn't argue with you. Um I talked

[2:11:12] to the prior sheriff and it took him two

[2:11:15] and a half years two and a half years to

[2:11:18] actually break even with that jail over

[2:11:20] there when cuz when he come in there

[2:11:23] were literally three inmates in house

[2:11:27] and we were fully staffed at the time.

[2:11:31] So it took him quite a while. So he had

[2:11:34] so at that point he had three inmates.

[2:11:36] So he said, "Okay, we're going to open

[2:11:38] it up to other counties to to justify

[2:11:41] the cost." And that's how that happened.

[2:11:44] >> Well, we've always housed for other

[2:11:45] counties. We've always um they go

[2:11:48] through it. It It's a yo-yo. It goes up

[2:11:51] and down, up and down, up and down, up

[2:11:53] and down. Um the fact that inmates come

[2:11:56] and go, um jails jails fill up.

[2:12:00] >> Do you think that other counties would

[2:12:01] be willing to

[2:12:03] county. If we get them in initially,

[2:12:05] negotiate $55 to $60

[2:12:08] in why not I mean we talked about

[2:12:11] everybody filling up, you know, more

[2:12:14] space. Johnson County goes to um uh they

[2:12:19] go so so we had housing with Johnson

[2:12:23] County, we had housing with um

[2:12:26] >> we never had one dot but um Sedway Sling

[2:12:30] County, KDOC

[2:12:32] um and then whoever else trickled in but

[2:12:36] I want to I want to refresh your memory

[2:12:38] here. Okay. um the the meetings that

[2:12:42] we've been going to with Brenda and

[2:12:44] everybody, I want you to remember what

[2:12:46] position a lot of these jails are in

[2:12:48] already

[2:12:50] and their beds are going to fill up.

[2:12:53] Sure. But is it going to be to the point

[2:12:56] where they'll send us to send them to

[2:12:59] us?

[2:13:00] I don't think you're and I talked to

[2:13:04] Keith a little bit about this too. I

[2:13:06] don't think you're ever going to get

[2:13:07] much more over $55 a day that they're

[2:13:10] going to bring them to you.

[2:13:15] » Yeah. I

[2:13:15] >> if wind Johnson County is taking over uh

[2:13:19] the state line to house theirs because

[2:13:22] it was closer than bringing them clear

[2:13:24] down to us.

[2:13:26] >> I just thought about not pulling back

[2:13:28] our prisoners from Mitchell County.

[2:13:30] We're paying $45 up there. We can rent

[2:13:32] that bid out for 55 while we're $10 a

[2:13:34] night ahead.

[2:13:39] » Well, and you also got to take into

[2:13:41] consideration the way that our jail is

[2:13:43] set up.

[2:13:45] >> Um

[2:13:46] there is no real separation between the

[2:13:49] males and the females. Therefore, we

[2:13:51] have always sent our females out and probably

[2:13:57] will have to continue with that because

[2:14:00] if you bring in the way our jail set up,

[2:14:02] we if we house females and males in our

[2:14:05] jail, we will have a mess. I can almost

[2:14:09] promise you because

[2:14:12] there's a pod, but that's for trustees

[2:14:17] and that's right next door to BP pod,

[2:14:19] which

[2:14:21] Inmates are inmates. They're going to

[2:14:22] pass messages. They're going to see and

[2:14:24] do stuff that you and I would be how in

[2:14:28] the world they do it.

[2:14:30] There's just no separation that we can

[2:14:32] keep with them.

[2:14:35] And I don't mean anything by this, but

[2:14:36] females are a pain in the butt to house.

[2:14:39] Period.

[2:14:40] you're talking um and and and here's the

[2:14:43] other thing that I guess

[2:14:47] way back when I worked for the juvenile

[2:14:49] facility, they had figured it into all

[2:14:52] their calculations and [snorts] to house

[2:14:55] an inmate or to house

[2:14:57] prisoner, it was over $100 a day

[2:15:01] roughly.

[2:15:02] >> Anybody anybody

[2:15:06] >> that was several years back I I hate to

[2:15:09] think what it actually would cost. Now,

[2:15:13] when you put every number together,

[2:15:16] I said jails were never intended to make

[2:15:20] money. I don't see how that's would be

[2:15:23] ever possible.

[2:15:27] » We would payroll.

[2:15:30] >> Did you get

[2:15:31] >> I did and that's part of my spill when I

[2:15:33] brought him in to to talk to them.

[2:15:37] One kid already was talked about.

[2:15:40] >> If selected, he would move from

[2:15:42] Ellsworth County.

[2:15:44] >> What we're talking about is make my move

[2:15:47] has a great incentive now 10,000 and

[2:15:51] free subscription to the messenger.

[2:15:53] >> Got a lot of good stuff to it.

[2:15:55] >> We use it for one of our employees

[2:15:58] already.

[2:15:59] >> I was going to but then didn't work out

[2:16:01] from the guy that I had. But anyway,

[2:16:04] >> I wanted you to know that that could be

[2:16:05] a good recruitment tool.

[2:16:09] » I appreciate you coming up for us.

[2:16:11] >> I I don't by any means want to cost

[2:16:15] us any more money than we already are,

[2:16:17] but I think that if we don't really just

[2:16:20] look into it just because

[2:16:23] available, they're going to go somewhere

[2:16:25] else.

[2:16:27] And and I'm waiting for a reply after

[2:16:29] negotiations with the

[2:16:32] It was their suggestion. And

[2:16:35] >> you mean?

[2:16:36] >> Yeah. For the 55.

[2:16:38] >> Well, so um so if I take this and I

[2:16:42] subtract out, um at $60 a day and I

[2:16:46] subtract out the $200,000

[2:16:49] that our cost already is, you still end

[2:16:51] up with like over $200,000 loss. So if

[2:16:55] you divide that by 365, so that means at

[2:16:58] least $61.

[2:17:05] I'll be anxious to see. Is Scott gonna

[2:17:07] just send it to you or will he send it

[2:17:08] to all of us?

[2:17:09] >> He just was sending it to me, but I'll

[2:17:11] forward it on to you guys.

[2:17:12] >> Okay. Because I'd like to look at it.

[2:17:15] So, at this point in time,

[2:17:18] >> I'm just I'm just going forward with

[2:17:19] what I can, Carla, just until I know for

[2:17:24] sure which direction to go because our

[2:17:27] jail still needs

[2:17:29] updating.

[2:17:30] >> That makes sense.

[2:17:31] >> Um, the nightlights have been flickering

[2:17:35] for a couple years now, probably. Um, so

[2:17:38] there's some of the stuff that needed to

[2:17:40] be done, but

[2:17:42] >> Well, I'm all for that and I'm all for

[2:17:44] being ready. But I I want to look at the

[2:17:46] numbers and say we just need to have our

[2:17:49] eyes open when we go in about if if

[2:17:52] we're going to operate at a loss, we

[2:17:53] need to be honest.

[2:17:54] >> Oh, I am. I I like I said, I by no means

[2:17:58] don't want to

[2:18:00] uh cost us any more than what we already

[2:18:02] are spending

[2:18:04] for operate our our facility and house

[2:18:08] our inmates elsewhere.

[2:18:10] >> Yeah. Well, I appreciate you uh getting

[2:18:14] that 200,000 number so I can kind of

[2:18:17] digest that. And um

[2:18:21] >> Carl, you have a question or comment.

[2:18:25] >> It's obviously hypothetical, but I think

[2:18:27] something you need to keep in mind is if

[2:18:30] like everybody thinks it's

[2:18:33] already

[2:18:36] that 200,000 is going to increase.

[2:18:38] >> Oh yeah.

[2:18:39] >> Because we will have more inmates.

[2:18:43] I don't know how you quantify that. It's

[2:18:44] just like the employees bringing

[2:18:46] employees in.

[2:18:47] >> Yes, they're going to be spending money

[2:18:48] in town. They're going to be, you know,

[2:18:50] >> Mitch County has already talked about

[2:18:52] increasing their

[2:18:54] >> I'm sure.

[2:18:55] >> I have not. We have not had an increase

[2:18:56] since we started housing with them and I know the sheriff mentioned it a

[2:19:01] few months back that he was looking to

[2:19:04] possibly increase the cost of what we're

[2:19:06] paying. surprised. I can't believe they

[2:19:09] could break even,

[2:19:12] >> but I guess I I I when I worked on them

[2:19:14] over the weekend, I was like I all I

[2:19:18] could see is that we were going to

[2:19:19] operate at a huge loss and I was like,

[2:19:22] why would we take on a project for

[2:19:25] another county at the expense of our

[2:19:27] constituents?

[2:19:28] >> We wouldn't I wouldn't never do that.

[2:19:30] Wouldn't cost us more than what we're

[2:19:33] already

[2:19:35] paying to to

[2:19:37] operational.

[2:19:38] >> Well, the short time I've known Russ on

[2:19:40] this make [clears throat] numerous

[2:19:42] comments, you know, he was trying to

[2:19:43] save taxpayers money in any way that he

[2:19:45] could, leasing the vehicles and saving

[2:19:48] money, that type of thing. And even

[2:19:50] before, as I was a taxpayer,

[2:19:53] not knowing what I know now about jail

[2:19:56] operations or anything else, we had

[2:19:57] brick building was falling down around

[2:19:59] us up here on the corner. We had to do

[2:20:01] something.

[2:20:02] >> I looked upon that new jail as a vote of

[2:20:05] confidence. point, the sheriff we had at

[2:20:08] the time, you know, knowing that he was

[2:20:10] going to run it right. It was going to

[2:20:11] be for code. It was going to protect our

[2:20:13] people, going to protect our prisoners,

[2:20:16] that it would be done right. That's

[2:20:17] something we had to have. We knew, but

[2:20:21] >> well, there's discussion

[2:20:23] KDOC is filling up. They're just it's a trickle from all the the regular

[2:20:30] jails to to KDOC.

[2:20:33] So I mean there's always that

[2:20:35] possibility that if we take you know

[2:20:39] what if we take 12 from or or let's just

[2:20:42] say 30 from Sedwick and then we use the

[2:20:46] other 20 beds for KDOC because they're

[2:20:49] filling up KD KDOC pays better than your

[2:20:54] local

[2:20:56] >> to house their ins

[2:20:59] have to be on your shoulders. You got a

[2:21:01] big job ahead of you.

[2:21:03] >> Well, I just want to see the numbers

[2:21:05] before we open it.

[2:21:07] >> That's all I want to do. I want to see

[2:21:08] how this isn't going to be a huge

[2:21:11] expense to our taxpayers.

[2:21:13] >> Well, housing.

[2:21:14] >> The the fear my biggest fear is is we

[2:21:17] get 12. Are we going to get to that 30

[2:21:21] number? are we going to get? And that's

[2:21:22] the reason I was trying because when she

[2:21:25] sent me that contract, I was I'm like

[2:21:29] just was up there talking to them guys

[2:21:30] and said we were 55 to 60 what I wanted.

[2:21:35] So she asked, "Well, will that work?"

[2:21:38] I'm like, "No, it's not going to work.

[2:21:41] We can't do 45." Well, that's what we

[2:21:44] pay everybody else. That's what we're

[2:21:45] going to continue to pay.

[2:21:47] >> Well, then go elsewhere. That's really

[2:21:49] what we have to do. I mean, we can't put

[2:21:51] that burden on our taxpayer just to help

[2:21:53] suic.

[2:21:54] >> So, I gave it one ditch, one more ditch

[2:21:57] effort to try and that's when they come

[2:21:59] back and said, "Well, would you do if if

[2:22:02] was possible, would you do 55 per day

[2:22:05] per head per inmate

[2:22:09] um until you reach a certain number?"

[2:22:12] Well, if we can get 50 to 55 of your

[2:22:15] inmates, but I don't think that'll ever

[2:22:18] happen because She said, "Right now, we

[2:22:20] don't have that."

[2:22:22] I'm guessing if they pulled them from

[2:22:24] Cloud County and the other facility, but

[2:22:26] they won't do that. They've always went to three or four or more

[2:22:32] jails.

[2:22:32] >> Well, you also Yeah. And they also said,

[2:22:35] "Well, we pay these other people that."

[2:22:37] Well, that doesn't make sense for us.

[2:22:39] Maybe it makes and maybe what they're

[2:22:41] doing is fill in with their extra beds,

[2:22:43] so it makes sense to do it a lower rate.

[2:22:45] But for us to open the jail is another

[2:22:48] story.

[2:22:48] >> Well, you made this

[2:22:52] Mitchell County, how are they making it?

[2:22:54] My question is how how is Cloud County

[2:22:57] doing it? Because their leases or

[2:23:01] payments are more than what we got.

[2:23:04] >> So, I know they're a bigger jail, but I

[2:23:09] but they have more people that they

[2:23:10] hire.

[2:23:16] It's 45.

[2:23:18] >> Oh, the the count

[2:23:20] >> their count. I don't know.

[2:23:22] >> I just wonder how many

[2:23:25] charging 45.

[2:23:26] >> That's

[2:23:28] what Captain Smith told me that they

[2:23:31] only pay 45.

[2:23:34] >> But as everybody draws near capacity,

[2:23:37] the price go

[2:23:40] >> the demand supply and demand.

[2:23:42] >> But then

[2:23:44] What if it doesn't? You're you're one of

[2:23:46] them. You're like a farmer almost with a

[2:23:48] jail. It's like I'm going to go to the

[2:23:50] casino and throw the crap would hope

[2:23:53] that it lands on the right numbers.

[2:23:56] >> Throw we se the ground and hope it comes

[2:23:57] up.

[2:23:58] >> Y

[2:23:58] >> but the same token if we know if we just

[2:24:02] look at the numbers at least we know

[2:24:03] what number we're throwing right

[2:24:05] >> we're gambling with.

[2:24:06] >> Yeah.

[2:24:07] >> Right now we don't know what number

[2:24:08] we're gambling with.

[2:24:12] So, as long I I just would appreciate

[2:24:15] I'm glad you reached out to Scott Lloyd

[2:24:17] to do the calculations. I'll be anxious

[2:24:19] to see what he computes.

[2:24:20] >> He said it would be today sometime that

[2:24:22] he get them to me. But I also know that

[2:24:24] he said he had two more counties to go

[2:24:26] visit. So, if they don't come today,

[2:24:27] don't get stressed out. If I don't get

[2:24:29] them, I don't get them to you. I'll get

[2:24:31] them to you as soon as he gets them to

[2:24:33] he uh

[2:24:34] >> he said he had two more counties he

[2:24:36] visit.

[2:24:37] >> Okay. Well, I appreciate you

[2:24:41] understanding we don't really want to

[2:24:43] operate at a loss. I really do

[2:24:44] appreciate that.

[2:24:45] >> I get it.

[2:24:45] >> I just kind of kept getting I kept

[2:24:47] hearing we have to open our jail. We

[2:24:49] have to open our jail. And I just kept

[2:24:51] thinking, why do we open our jail at a

[2:24:52] loss? That was the hardest thing for me

[2:24:55] to

[2:24:55] >> It's It's not only the loss that you got

[2:24:58] to think about. And and I I took the

[2:25:01] oath. I put my name on that list to be

[2:25:03] elected. and I get it, but jail is the

[2:25:06] biggest pain in my behind. Um, it's just

[2:25:11] every day there's something that's going

[2:25:13] on, something that comes up that you

[2:25:15] have to adjust to. Whether it's EMS

[2:25:18] coming up because somebody got hurt and

[2:25:19] we have to pay for that bill. Whether

[2:25:21] it's something that breaks, whether it's

[2:25:24] staff shortage that don't want to come

[2:25:26] up and don't want to work, whether

[2:25:28] somebody gets hurt or has to go hands-on

[2:25:30] and then we have a lawsuit on our hands

[2:25:32] like we've had I think we've had two

[2:25:34] lawsuits

[2:25:36] since I've been up here.

[2:25:38] >> Well, I appreciate you

[2:25:39] >> took care of one of those problems. So,

[2:25:41] >> so I appreciate you discussing this

[2:25:43] again. And like I said, I was just

[2:25:45] concerned over the weekend of what the

[2:25:47] potential was.

[2:25:48] >> Carla, I've been concerned since they

[2:25:50] come the first time. So I get it. I

[2:25:52] understand.

[2:25:53] >> I think you mentioned at one time early

[2:25:55] on that if we decline this time, you

[2:25:59] know that they will probably continue to

[2:26:01] look beyond this that it's kind of one.

[2:26:04] >> Yeah. But if we lose money, let them go

[2:26:06] beyond because at some point they're

[2:26:08] going to say, "Oh, we need some more

[2:26:09] beds." And if they don't, then we don't

[2:26:12] we we shouldn't go in helping another

[2:26:15] county at a loss. No.

[2:26:16] >> Okay. With break even. But the potential

[2:26:18] is there that we will not be at the

[2:26:20] loss. If we don't capitalize on this,

[2:26:22] the opportunity may [clears throat] not

[2:26:24] come around.

[2:26:24] >> Now, why do you say it capitalize on it

[2:26:27] if it's a loss? I I'm really struggling

[2:26:29] because

[2:26:30] it could it could. Yeah, absolutely.

[2:26:33] >> It could be a a break even. You know,

[2:26:35] you're looking at the negative, but it

[2:26:37] could be a break even. It could be

[2:26:39] something that would be profitable for

[2:26:41] us, but we don't know. It's never going

[2:26:43] to be profitable because going back to

[2:26:45] 22 and 23, we had a general fund

[2:26:48] transfer way back then.

[2:26:49] >> Unless, as

[2:26:51] >> you're saying that, he gets the point or

[2:26:53] the Sedick or whoever it is gets to the

[2:26:55] point where they're they're in a they're

[2:26:58] in a pinch and they have to pay us

[2:27:01] 80 to$100.

[2:27:03] >> We can open our jail,

[2:27:04] >> but they probably will not come back to

[2:27:06] us then.

[2:27:07] >> Well, they pro if other jails are full.

[2:27:10] >> I don't think they come back to us. I

[2:27:12] don't think they would. I think if if we

[2:27:15] didn't jump on it less, if it's

[2:27:16] traveling less and equal dollars, they

[2:27:19] will.

[2:27:20] >> This is Russ's area of expertise. He

[2:27:22] knows law enforcement.

[2:27:23] >> I don't think the sheriff would I think

[2:27:25] he would entertain other agencies before

[2:27:27] coming to us. And here's the reason.

[2:27:31] KDOC already has a bad taste in their

[2:27:33] mouth for Ottawa County.

[2:27:34] >> What was that from?

[2:27:36] >> The escape.

[2:27:39] >> Was that okay? decades.

[2:27:42] >> It has and they still have a bad taste

[2:27:44] and they really really would not just as

[2:27:47] soon not come to us. So there's kind of

[2:27:52] there this is a dilemma thing of the

[2:27:54] crop. What do they pay?

[2:27:56] >> Uh upwards of 100 plus probably.

[2:27:59] >> So we want them. So how do we get them?

[2:28:01] How do we make

[2:28:02] >> I [snorts] don't know if we want

[2:28:03] [laughter] them.

[2:28:04] >> That's but that's the kids. Is that the

[2:28:07] kids?

[2:28:08] >> Oh no no. These are people that have

[2:28:10] been sentenced to prison and and when

[2:28:13] they housed for us when we housed for

[2:28:15] them, sorry, the last time they they

[2:28:18] told us that they were going to send us

[2:28:20] ones that are just minimum minimum

[2:28:22] security and didn't have any problems

[2:28:25] and they'd be easy to deal with.

[2:28:29] >> That didn't happen. Did not happen. Uh,

[2:28:33] I don't know how many times we had to

[2:28:34] call their people up here because of

[2:28:36] behavior issues and they

[2:28:41] Christmas they held the pod hostage

[2:28:44] basically and then we had the escape and

[2:28:48] they broke uh all a bunch of our

[2:28:51] sprinkler heads. They were just a

[2:28:54] handful.

[2:28:55] And the other thing you've got to think

[2:28:57] about with this is the staff that we

[2:28:59] have to select from

[2:29:02] or

[2:29:03] >> to handle those kind of people.

[2:29:05] >> Yeah.

[2:29:07] >> Well, just just to kind of wrap kind of

[2:29:09] that piece of it, there's difference

[2:29:11] between jail and prison. There's also

[2:29:12] different requirements of having KC

[2:29:14] inmates and county jail inmates. These

[2:29:18] are two different types of difference.

[2:29:19] That's everything that Russ knows

[2:29:22] and all that. There's a lot of

[2:29:24] differences in doing things. It's not as

[2:29:26] easy as saying, "Well, how do we get

[2:29:27] those people?" Because there's a whole

[2:29:29] set of requirements that would have to

[2:29:30] go through again. So, it's it's a whole

[2:29:34] >> Yeah. Our our people we have right now

[2:29:36] would not be able to handle a KDOC.

[2:29:40] » Well, and based on what you said, we

[2:29:42] really don't want them anyway. So, we

[2:29:44] just Yeah. Sling County for for the most

[2:29:47] part, Sling County was our bread and

[2:29:50] butter for years and years and years and

[2:29:52] their inmates were good to us. They were

[2:29:55] good to us by sending us

[2:29:56] >> We still lost money though.

[2:29:58] >> We did.

[2:29:58] >> Yeah.

[2:29:59] But the question

[2:30:02] again arises is are you losing more than

[2:30:05] what you would be if you was to be empty

[2:30:07] and operating the way that kind of like

[2:30:09] what we are doing now?

[2:30:11] >> And that's the 200,000.

[2:30:12] >> That's the numbers I want to see. And

[2:30:14] I'm going I want to hear back from Sed

[2:30:18] County. That that's kind of a an

[2:30:21] important deal because I think that

[2:30:22] you're right at be honest with you $45 a

[2:30:26] day per inmate.

[2:30:28] Even at 50 inmates, we would we'd be out

[2:30:32] more than the $200,000 spending.

[2:30:35] >> Then you'd have to have 16 staff.

[2:30:37] >> Yeah.

[2:30:38] >> If we if we were full housed with

[2:30:40] inmates.

[2:30:41] >> So we we would be spending more than

[2:30:43] 200,000. We're not getting ahead at that

[2:30:45] rate.

[2:30:46] >> So, there's a lot of factors that go

[2:30:48] into this. It's not by any means.

[2:30:52] >> Well, I'm just thankful that you don't

[2:30:54] want to open the jail no matter what

[2:30:56] because that was never mind. And I'm

[2:30:57] glad to hear that from you. And um

[2:31:00] >> if it's not going to work, I'm not gonna

[2:31:02] I I don't want to hire a bunch of people

[2:31:03] and then

[2:31:05] a month, six months down the road say,

[2:31:09] "Yeah, it's not working. We're not

[2:31:11] getting what we

[2:31:12] >> I don't want to going to hire a bunch of

[2:31:14] people and then six months down the road

[2:31:15] it would cost us half a million dollars.

[2:31:17] >> Well, it's going to

[2:31:19] right now for at least three to four

[2:31:22] months it's going to cost us more than

[2:31:24] what we're paying now.

[2:31:25] >> I understand that

[2:31:26] >> because we can't house

[2:31:29] more than 12 to 15

[2:31:33] until we get fully staffed and fully run

[2:31:35] operational,

[2:31:36] >> right?

[2:31:36] And we have so if we can calculate what

[2:31:38] our loss is going to be based on that

[2:31:41] and figure out if that's where we want

[2:31:43] to go but I before I didn't think that

[2:31:46] we had a full financial picture. I'm

[2:31:48] glad you're looking at it.

[2:31:50] >> Well

[2:31:53] a lot

[2:31:56] to the master.

[2:32:00] » Yep. That it

[2:32:03] >> yes that's what

[2:32:04] >> okay. Thank you.

[2:32:14] Are we done with commissioner comments?

[2:32:16] >> Wait a second. Let me see my little list

[2:32:17] here.

[2:32:18] >> I think that was it.

[2:32:21] >> Okay.

[2:32:22] >> So, that was mine.

[2:32:24] >> Commissioner Carl has a question.

[2:32:27] Do you do you guys know of anything that

[2:32:31] I can't imagine there isn't something

[2:32:33] out there that gives idea of what a

[2:32:36] full-time employee would mean to an area

[2:32:40] >> far as you know

[2:32:42] >> how much it trickle down into

[2:32:44] >> Yeah. Yeah. Whatever the wording would

[2:32:46] be

[2:32:46] >> that'd be interesting

[2:32:47] >> that would come from like two county

[2:32:50] development that would be kind of their

[2:32:51] expertise.

[2:32:52] >> I mean that's I think most people think

[2:32:54] that an employee I mean you hear it all

[2:32:56] the time.

[2:32:56] >> Yeah.

[2:32:57] >> When they're looking at bringing people

[2:32:58] in for businesses or whatever what it

[2:33:00] means you know tax roles and benefits.

[2:33:03] >> I don't know. I mean

[2:33:06] whe

[2:33:09] >> interesting question I'll try and have

[2:33:11] an answer for you next week.

[2:33:12] >> I [clears throat] mean whe

[2:33:13] >> no matter who it's for whether you guys

[2:33:17] >> jail us as EMS or whoever I mean that

[2:33:20] would be an interesting number

[2:33:23] >> it would probably be proportionate. I

[2:33:24] would think if somebody comes in with a

[2:33:26] work at home or remote job and they're

[2:33:28] making $200,000 a year they're probably

[2:33:31] going to put more into the economy than

[2:33:33] somebody that's making 50 or 60, you

[2:33:35] know, but they've got to be an average

[2:33:37] out there somewhere to kind of obviously

[2:33:39] varies from, you know, county versus

[2:33:42] county,

[2:33:42] >> right?

[2:33:43] >> Chamber of Commerce County would have

[2:33:46] those numbers.

[2:33:48] >> Who?

[2:33:50] >> Yeah, I've got those written down.

[2:33:52] Choose county. How much money into the

[2:33:55] economy? Very good.

[2:33:57] comment.

[2:34:00] >> Anything else, Carla?

[2:34:01] >> No, that covers everything.

[2:34:04] The only thing I would say is no meeting

[2:34:06] next Monday on the 7th of November.

[2:34:08] Everybody have a good Labor Day.

[2:34:10] >> Be safe.

[2:34:11] >> Yes.

[2:34:13] And endure the heat between now and

[2:34:14] then. They're promising heat all week. I

[2:34:16] think it

[2:34:17] >> over 100. Yeah.

[2:34:22] » I'll make a motion to adjourn at 10:35.

[2:34:25] >> I will second it.

[2:34:30] Any discussion?

[2:34:33] All those in favor go home.

[2:34:35] >> Say I.

[2:34:36] >> Oh, I whatever. And then go home.

Ottawa County Kansas Commission Mtg 08/31/2026

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