[5:14] We're

[5:21] going to go ahead and get started with this Board of County Commissioners meeting, September 22nd,

[5:29] 2026. That's one of everybody who be mindful, like I just heard. Go ahead and silence your funds. Be respectful

[5:35] the people sit next to you, definitely when we get to the portions of the agenda where the

[5:40] public comes up and speaks at the two podiums. Troy, well I'm sorry, Tom, I don't know if it's

[5:46] a different person today. Tom will be navigating that for everyone in the room and when the time

[5:53] comes, we have extremely large crowd today. I assume everybody hears to participate in somebody

[5:58] agenda items. And remember, you have a timer, you're given three minutes. You get a 30 second

[6:05] morning, and when the red light goes off, here's the second deep that means you're

[6:10] times up for sake of moving this forward and moving quickly and efficiently. I hope

[6:15] everybody to mind their time and to keep track of that. This is not a Michigan or

[6:20] Western Michigan game where they add seconds to the end of the game. So we think 10.

[6:28] All right, but yeah, so we're going to get started County Managed.

[6:34] Yes, good morning.

[6:36] Let's we will be starting with the invocation by Pastor David Wildman, grow church

[6:42] states followed by the pledge of allegiance led by Lou Casanova, U.S. Navy, who served

[6:48] aboard the USS Hank, DD-702 from 1965 to 1971.

[6:56] Good morning, let's play.

[6:57] Heavenly Father, thank you for bringing us together here today for the opportunity to serve the people of

[7:02] Colleague County. We're grateful for this community and for the many blessings that you've given us and

[7:06] Lord, I lift up our commissioners and all those who serve this country, give them wisdom, patience,

[7:12] and good judgment as they consider the decisions before them. Help them work together with respect

[7:17] and integrity, always keep in the well-being of our community in mind. Your word tells us in

[7:22] First Timothy 2-2 to pray for those in authority, so that we may live peaceful and quiet lives.

[7:30] So today we pray for wisdom for our leaders and for decisions that will bring peace, prosperity and opportunity to call your county.

[7:37] We also pray for all of our county employees and their families, bless them, protect them and give them strength that they serve our community each day.

[7:44] We lift up our first responders and their families and our military personnel serving across the country and around the world.

[7:51] Protect them, give them courage and strength and bring them home safely.

[7:55] And also, as we enter this election season, Lord, we pray that citizens will be engaged, informed, and willing to take part in the process.

[8:02] May our elections conduct it with integrity and make those who are like that serve with wisdom and a heart for the people.

[8:09] And finally, Lord, give these discussions and decisions made here today.

[8:14] Guide them with your word and your spirit.

[8:16] And give everyone in this room humility with them and in genuine desire to serve others.

[8:20] May everything we do today contribute to the peace, prosperity, and well-being of

[8:25] Collier County.

[8:26] And we ask all these things in the precious name of Jesus, amen.

[9:01] You must have been very popular in a way that you stuck out like a sore thumb, my friend.

[9:08] That life is behind me.

[9:10] And my wife says right behind me.

[9:13] But I want to thank the commissioners for honoring veterans and the people that serve in the armed forces, the men and women who put their lives in the line every day.

[9:21] So we can all be here. Thank you.

[9:24] Thank you.

[9:36] Commissioners, Agenda Changes for September 26, 2026, we have first up moved item 16D9 to 11F.

[9:45] This is a recommendation to approve and authorize the chair to assign the low-income pool

[9:51] letter of agreement with the agency for health care administration in the amount not to exceed

[9:57] $4 million, $8,319 to participate in the Medicaid Central Receiving Facility Low-Income

[10:03] pool program generating 4,984,933 dollars in federal matching funds for the benefit of David Lawrence

[10:11] Mental Health Center, be approved in additional 223,649 dollars in general fund support

[10:18] C. Sign the required provider questionnaire to assist in meeting the state required match

[10:23] obligation and the authorizes necessary budget amendments. This item is being moved at Commissioner

[10:28] calls request. We have an add-on item 10A. This is a recommendation to direct the county attorney

[10:33] to advertise an ordinance establishing limitations on the use of county funds and county

[10:38] owned or county controlled property for automated license plate recognition cameras providing

[10:43] for permitted and prohibited camera functions requiring compliance certification providing for

[10:48] municipal participation by opt-in providing for administration and enforcement and providing

[10:53] for applicability and an effective date.

[10:55] This is brought to the agenda at Commissioner Saunders request.

[10:58] We do have court and court and court break scheduled for 1030 and again at 250 with that

[11:04] county attorney.

[11:05] Nothing.

[11:05] Thank you.

[11:06] Commissioner Saunders.

[11:09] I have no additions to the agenda in terms of ex-part day.

[11:17] I think we probably all have a little bit of that this time.

[11:22] On the summary agenda,

[11:24] notice disclosure on 17c.

[11:27] Sorry, I don't have any disclosure in the consent agenda.

[11:34] Mr. Hall.

[11:35] Good morning, Mr. Chairman.

[11:37] I have no changes to the agenda.

[11:38] I do have meetings on 17c.

[11:42] Mr. McCaster.

[11:44] No changes.

[11:45] I also have meetings on 17c.

[11:48] Mr. McDaniel.

[11:49] Good morning.

[11:49] No changes and no expertise. I also have no changes, and I have no expertise on 17c. So with that said, get a motion, I'll move second motion a second all favors in the five by saying aye.

[12:10] I opposed the same sound same side. All right.

[12:13] Very good that brings us right to awards and recognitions item three. We're going to start with item three A1, our 20 year attendees. First up, we have David Laterno building plan review and instruction 20 years. Congratulations.

[12:26] Thank you.

[12:39] Uh-huh.

[12:40] Yeah.

[12:40] I guess it's a more important thing.

[12:42] Okay, I can appreciate it.

[12:44] Thank you very much.

[12:46] You got your Rolex box watching the mail yesterday.

[12:48] I don't think I got that.

[12:49] I get lost sometimes.

[12:50] I get lost sometimes.

[12:52] I get lost sometimes.

[12:53] Yeah.

[12:53] New York City time box.

[12:56] The following goal.

[13:06] Thank you.

[13:13] Next up we have Josie Turgau, Facilities Management 20 years.

[13:16] Congratulations.

[13:17] Thanks for having me.

[13:26] Thank you.

[13:26] How many years?

[13:28] Four years.

[13:29] Four years.

[13:30] Four years of student program.

[13:33] The interns.

[13:33] You have worked for me?

[13:34] You have worked for me?

[13:35] You have worked for me?

[13:50] Thank you.

[13:58] Melee Campbell, Parks & Recreation, 20 years.

[14:01] Congratulations.

[14:18] Well done.

[14:18] Thank you.

[14:19] You're all done.

[14:35] Moving on to 25 years attendees, Gregory Garcia, Transportation Engineering, Congratulations.

[14:50] There for us. I knew I'd like this guy. Yeah. Yeah, congratulations.

[14:57] Oh, you do. Oh, yes

[15:17] Johnnie Desenor, Utilities Finance Operations 25 years, congratulations.

[16:05] All right, moving on to 30 years, we have 130 year attendee, Mario Garcia, wastewater, congratulations.

[16:33] I don't know.

[16:34] Now we know where there's somebody in.

[16:36] The problem is you're going to get a haircut back here.

[16:48] And now.

[17:20] Group.

[17:21] Commission's efforts as to proclamations.

[17:23] Item 4A is a proclamation designating October 7th, 2026 as a day of remembrance and recognition

[17:30] of the formation of the solidarity with Israel coalition to be accepted by Richard Hoffman,

[17:37] Chairman, and Linda Blackman President's solidarity with Israel coalition.

[17:41] Congratulations.

[18:09] Thank you.

[18:14] No swag for the event.

[18:15] What do you got?

[18:17] Thanks for being here.

[18:18] Congratulations.

[18:19] Thank you.

[18:20] Thank you.

[18:35] Thank you.

[18:35] Thanks for being here.

[18:37] Good

[18:39] morning,

[18:52] Commissioners.

[18:54] And Chairman, thank you for recognizing October 7th as a day of remembrance to respect

[19:01] the honor to reflect and honor the memory of the innocent civilians who were brutally attacked

[19:08] by Hamas.

[19:09] On October 7, Hamas, a terrorist organization committed unspeakable savagery against innocent

[19:17] and defenseless people.

[19:19] They led an in-humane and unprovoked attack from the Gaza Strip into Israel, killed more

[19:25] and 1200 Israelis and foreign nationals, including 46 U.S. citizens, and took 251

[19:32] hostages.

[19:34] The Islamic terrorists, who committed these acts, told us over and over again that they

[19:40] would do the same thing until Israel and America was destroyed.

[19:44] Jewish people wiped out a non-believers' force to face death or conversion.

[19:51] their intent is to destroy Western civilization and to replace it with a global

[19:57] caliphate to rule the world under Shira Law. Outrage of these events, a group of

[20:05] individuals, or I should say interfaith individuals, from Cali County, from

[20:10] solidarity with Israel coalition, to bring together people of all faiths,

[20:19] to

[20:20] of life. This proclamation reaffirms Cali County and Florida's steadfast support for Israel

[20:28] and condemns those who support Hamas and similar terrorist groups and recognizes the

[20:36] formation of solidarity with Israel coalition. It's an honor to receive this proclamation. Thank you

[20:43] very much. Welcome.

[20:50] Item 4B is a proclamation designating October

[20:53] 420-26 as breast cancer awareness month in Calier County to be accepted by Nikki Audia,

[21:01] director of philanthropy and community engagement, Naples Cancer Advisors.

[21:24] Good morning.

[21:26] Good morning.

[21:27] Good morning.

[21:32] Good morning.

[21:40] Good morning.

[21:40] Thank you.

[21:41] Thank you again so much for honoring the breast cancer survivors and warriors.

[21:45] Today's proclamation is not about a signature, it's about people, our community, it's about

[21:52] women, children, your wife, your co-workers, it's about action, it's about a reminder

[22:00] to have the conversation with your provider, making yourself a priority, recognizing your

[22:06] body, and helping each other to remember to go and get scanned. Prevention is key.

[22:12] Today, this proclamation is a testament that you support those who are battling cancer, breast cancer, and those who we have lost.

[22:21] Thank you so very much for recognizing October and Call Your County as breast cancer awareness month.

[22:27] Thank you so much.

[22:28] Thank you.

[22:35] Item 4C is a proclamation designating September 19th through the 27th, 2026 as national estuaries week to be accepted by T.J. Snopkowski, executive director, friends of Rekrie Bay. Congratulations.

[23:17] Thank you, thank you, thank you guys so much.

[23:21] Thanks for it, it you guys do.

[23:22] Thank you, thank you, thank

[23:46] you.

[23:47] TJ, would you like to thank you?

[23:49] Thank you, whoever you choose.

[23:51] You're going to be great.

[24:02] Commissioner, I want to thank you all for this

[24:04] Proximations.

[24:05] And I also want to thank Commissioner La Castro

[24:07] for sponsoring our quest for it.

[24:10] Estuaries like those found in Recreday

[24:12] are known as the Nurseries of the Sea,

[24:14] because 80% of marine life begins in them.

[24:17] and all species rely on them for food.

[24:20] Separate from their roles as fisheries,

[24:22] Esturaries provide crucial ecosystem services

[24:24] for the communities that surround them

[24:26] and in our unique case for the entire state and country.

[24:31] Recovery Bay is over 110,000 acres,

[24:34] over 40% of Calier County's coastline.

[24:37] The Recovery Bay National Estuary Research Reserve

[24:39] is one of just 30 in the United States

[24:42] and arguably the most important given our location

[24:44] in the Western Everglades region.

[24:46] our countries, most prized ecosystem.

[24:51] At a local scale,

[24:52] Mercury Bayes, Southwest Florida,

[24:54] Mercury Bayes,

[24:55] Southwest Florida's most important resource

[24:56] with our waters, scrub habitat,

[24:58] and pine uplands stretching from the Gordon River

[25:00] to Everglades National Park.

[25:02] We're home to the largest,

[25:03] continuous mangrove forest in North America,

[25:05] which is critical for biodiversity,

[25:07] regional hurricane impact mitigation,

[25:09] carbon sequestration,

[25:11] as well as the air and water quality

[25:12] that drives the economy of Southwest Florida

[25:14] and our county as a whole.

[25:16] If you live in or travel to Naples,

[25:19] you can thank the work happening in Recre Bay

[25:21] for this beautiful place.

[25:23] National S2aries Week is about recognizing

[25:25] these critical spaces and working to protect them.

[25:28] So I urge all of you to please come out

[25:30] to our Learning Center, our Environmental Learning Center

[25:32] at 300 Tower Road in Naples.

[25:34] We are close for maintenance until October 1st.

[25:36] So come out next week.

[25:38] You can also head to Recre Bay.org and just follow us

[25:40] on social media at Friends of Recre Bay

[25:43] to learn more about how you can get involved

[25:44] and the work you can take to help protect the beautiful place.

[25:46] Thank you all so much.

[25:48] Thank you.

[25:54] You need a motion to approve these proclamations.

[25:57] So move.

[25:58] Just a second.

[25:59] A motion.

[25:59] A second.

[26:01] All favors signify by saying aye.

[26:04] Opposed.

[26:04] Same sound.

[26:07] Proclamations are approved.

[26:08] Thank you.

[26:09] Commissioners, that brings us to item seven public comments on general topics.

[26:13] Not on the current or future agenda.

[26:17] Mr. Paul.

[26:18] Good sir.

[26:19] Mr. Chair.

[26:20] We have four registered speakers, three in the room, one on Zoom.

[26:26] We will begin with Karen Wager.

[26:48] Sorry,

[26:51] you are, man.

[26:54] Good morning.

[26:55] Good morning, commissioners.

[26:56] I'm talking today about kindness to one another.

[27:00] My name is Khoran Wager, retired combat veteran, proud Jewish Zionist, and a member of the

[27:04] Pickle Wish on E. Tribe.

[27:06] I've seen many faces of humanity throughout my 14 and a half years of military service

[27:10] and travel to over 22 countries. I've seen such extraordinary strengths, courage and humility.

[27:16] This has helped shape my perception of life to see struggles as an opportunity to grow and persevere.

[27:22] I want to increase awareness and volunteering with existing programs that combat homelessness,

[27:27] starvation, family struggling to make ends meet, helping your fellow neighbors,

[27:31] and increasing funds for halfway homes for those who struggle with drugs and alcohol,

[27:35] individuals release some jail and prison.

[27:38] As human beings, we each struggle with something in our life.

[27:42] How many of us have seen somebody on the street and looked down at them, snubbed our nose at

[27:46] someone in the way they smell.

[27:49] How many of us just want those individuals to disappear?

[27:53] How many of us struggle to see beyond our own shortfalls?

[27:56] Each of us individuals is somebody special and somebody's everything.

[28:02] They are not invisible to the one who created them.

[28:04] Their tears are counted.

[28:06] Their value in their worth is immeasurable.

[28:08] I want to see more involvement from Call of County Commissioners

[28:11] to create more soup kitchens, pop up food trucks,

[28:14] innovative transition housing and showers,

[28:15] tiny homes and trailers,

[28:17] set up as temporary housing with an existing footprint

[28:19] without disturbing more green space.

[28:22] You can pick up the hotbed motel and turn that

[28:24] into traditional housing instead of its current use.

[28:27] There are so many ways that you can get involved

[28:30] into random acts of kindness and connect

[28:32] and help improve someone's life.

[28:33] provide a meal, pay for someone's groceries, pay for a coffee, help a neighbor with a project

[28:37] support and thank your local emergency responders, fire, police, EMS dispatchers.

[28:43] Support animal shelters volunteer at a better women's shelter and men's shelter.

[28:46] Project help rape crisis center, homeless shelter, volunteered the hairy chap and food bank.

[28:51] It would temple Shalom, assisting with after-school programs, creating fun activities and nursing

[28:56] homes and patients in hospital, volunteering with environmental groups, community guarding community

[29:01] dance in the park, yoga in the park, community, picnics, neighborhood clean-up blocks, supporting

[29:06] your local businesses, reading, buddy for seniors, coordinating events at nursing homes and

[29:11] hospitals, mentoring and tutor students and organizing disaster relief groups. Be willing to

[29:16] step outside of your comfort zone and talk to people and pay attention to find ways to connect

[29:21] and make someone's life a little easier. I challenge each of you college county commissioners

[29:26] to do a random act of kindness a week and to all my fellow college county residents, the same

[29:31] challenge goes to you as well. I want call your county to be known for our random acts of

[29:36] kindness, environmental stewardship and fostering community outreach. Be the change that you want to

[29:42] see. Thank you very much. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, if I might just before she leaves,

[29:51] Because before you leave, I want to make a comment, first of all, you're an inspiration and I want to thank you for your presentations and I hope.

[30:00] If you keep coming here and making those presentations, I know I'm meeting with you. I think in a few weeks, concerning some access issues, but your message has always been very positive and your attitude has always been very positive.

[30:14] I just want to thank you for that.

[30:17] You're here for us. That's fine, right?

[30:19] Yes, yes, yes.

[30:23] Mr. Chair, your next registered speaker is Lisa Drungle.

[30:41] Good morning.

[30:43] I'm here today to express my serious concern regarding the lack of street lighting at the intersection of Vanderbilt Beach Road and Windamare trails.

[30:55] Windamare trails is the South entrance to Valencia trails, a 55-plus community of approximately 1600 residents.

[31:04] At night, this intersection is extremely dark, difficult to identify and a significant safety

[31:13] concern.

[31:15] I contacted Collier County to learn why lighting was emitted from this intersection.

[31:20] Marlene Messam, supervisor and project manager with the county's transportation engineering

[31:26] department, explained that the Windermere Trail's intersection was introduced much later

[31:32] in the design of the Vanderbilt Beach Road Extension. When the corridor plans were already

[31:39] approximately 90 to 100% complete. She explained that adding street lighting at that stage would

[31:47] have required significant redesign. Those changes would have been costly and could have delayed

[31:53] the project. The road project moved forward, but the safety issue was left behind. I have requested

[32:01] copies of approved plans, permits, photometric studies, staff review, comments, and other

[32:08] records relating to this connection point.

[32:11] I have not yet received them.

[32:13] Those documents are important because they should show how the intersection was approved,

[32:19] whether its nighttime visibility was evaluated, and who was assigned responsibility for providing

[32:26] appropriate lighting.

[32:27] Because of the seriousness of this issue, I contacted Wink News, their reporter, Jillian

[32:35] Haggerty, visited the location and interviewed me.

[32:39] Wink aired the story last Tuesday evening.

[32:42] Clearly showing the intersection in nearly complete darkness and highlighting the legitimate

[32:48] safety concern.

[32:50] We should not have to wait for a serious collision or injury before the county takes action.

[32:56] My questions to you are these. How does Collier County justify approving and completing this

[33:03] connection without addressing nighttime visibility? Who was responsible for ensuring that

[33:11] the intersection was safe when it opened? And most importantly, what will the county do now

[33:17] to correct the problem? I respectfully ask the commissioners to direct county staff to conduct a

[33:24] time safety assessment, produce the relevant plans and approved records and return with a specific

[33:31] plan in timetable for installing adequate lighting and signage. Thank you.

[33:38] Thank you.

[33:41] You are next registered speaker is Jackie K.

[33:55] Good morning. Good morning everyone.

[33:59] I want to say

[34:00] good morning to the crowd. You all look fabulous into the commissioners. You all look

[34:05] especially dashing today.

[34:07] And no, I'm not asking for anything.

[34:11] This is my time.

[34:11] This is for that introduction.

[34:12] This might be a good time.

[34:16] Well, I want the world.

[34:17] Can you give that to me?

[34:19] Oh, no.

[34:19] It's yours.

[34:21] Thank you.

[34:21] I shall take it.

[34:23] So I watched original Terminator almost back in 1984.

[34:29] So I'm going to be telling my age.

[34:31] So I am swearing you all to see pursue, OK?

[34:33] So, that was almost 43 years ago when I was in freshman in high school.

[34:40] Here's the plot.

[34:41] So in 2029, an AI defense system named SkyNet gained self-awareness, to view humans as

[34:49] a threat, and triggered a nuclear holocaust known as Judgement Day.

[34:54] SkyNet sent a killer robot that is Arnold one of my favorites, back in time to 1984 to assassinate

[35:02] John Conner's mother as he was the leader of the human resistance.

[35:07] John in turn sends a loyal soldier to find and protect his mother.

[35:13] Here's some key takeaways from that movie.

[35:15] The unchecked advancement of AI can lead to our destruction.

[35:20] Number one, our destiny and survival are in our hands.

[35:24] Number two, and a lack of empathy will lead to all of our destruction.

[35:30] Number three.

[35:30] Likewise, the Oliagarch's billionaires are a great threat to our democracy, constitutional freedom and lives.

[35:39] Billionaires and tech CEOs such as Peter Teele, Elon Musk, in Mark Andreson,

[35:47] plantey use AI data centers, flock cameras, drones, and robots to create a

[35:53] digital and physical concentration camp, and enslave everyone that is not

[35:59] a centimillionaire or a billionaire. These fascists are great, greatly influenced by

[36:06] anti-democratic philosopher Curtis Yarvan, please look him up. Who believes a country should be

[36:13] run by an all-powerful executive slash monarch with absolute power and authority.

[36:21] They plan to demolish our democracy, establish techno-heutelism, and institute a corporate run

[36:29] authoritarian order in which the billionaires will control digital platforms.

[36:35] social media and network states in economic zones as actual landlords.

[36:43] They will subjugate the working class and determine who lives and die via a prescribed

[36:50] purge. As AI and robots will render us obsolete in a financial burden.

[36:58] So, it doesn't matter what political background you come from the color

[37:02] you skin your language, your position in life unless you're worth hundreds of millions or billions

[37:09] of dollars you are seen as a financial and social burden to the billionaires. So we have to work

[37:16] together and help each other. Thank you all. Thank you.

[37:23] Mr. Chair, our next registered speaker joins us

[37:26] Gloria Martin, Gloria, you should...

[37:30] We'd be receiving a prompt to unmute yourself.

[37:35] Gloria Martin,

[37:38] going once, going twice. We are not getting it on mute from Gloria. That's our last speaker here.

[37:44] All right. Well, thank you, Tom. We're going to go ahead and close the public speaking second of the items that are not on the agenda.

[37:53] And we'll go ahead and move on to the next item one list.

[37:57] Yes, sir, that brings us to item 9 advertised public hearings.

[38:01] We're going to begin with item companion items 9A and 9B.

[38:05] 9A is a organization to consider approval of an ordinance of the Board of County Commissioners

[38:10] amending the Coyote County Growth Management Plan to create the fairways in commercial

[38:15] sub-district to allow an expansion of the existing fairways in by 30 suites to the North

[38:20] on a property described as Palmer River State's units unit 1,

[38:25] lots 3.97, 3.98, 405 and 406.

[38:29] The subject property is 2.63 plus minus acres and located

[38:34] on the north side of Piper Boulevard, West of Palm River Boulevard,

[38:39] in Section 23, Township 48, South Range 25 East,

[38:42] Call Your County Florida.

[38:44] It's companion item 9B is a recommendation to approve

[38:49] ordinance resounding real property from a residential single family three zoning district

[38:54] and a residential tourist zoning district to a commercial planned unit development zoning

[38:59] district for the project to be known as the fairways in commercial planned unit development

[39:03] to allow the development of a hotel or motel with up to 76 rooms. The subject property

[39:09] consisting of 2.63 plus minus acres is located on the north side of Piper Boulevard west of

[39:15] on River Boulevard, in Section 23, Township 48, South,

[39:18] Range 25 East, Collier County, Florida.

[39:21] With that, we'll do X-partite disclosure

[39:23] and then the swearing in of all the speakers.

[39:26] Yes, Commissioner Saunders.

[39:28] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[39:29] I do have meetings in the correspondence concerning

[39:32] this item.

[39:35] Mr. Hall.

[39:37] Mr. Chairman, I have meetings, correspondence e-mails and calls.

[39:41] I'm going to show a classroom.

[39:41] meeting's correspondence and emails, Mr. McDaniel, on on 9B I have the same meeting

[39:48] C-mails and calls, and I also have meetings e-mails and calls.

[39:55] With that, I'll participate, please stand up to be sworn in by the court reporter that

[39:59] includes anybody that is going to be providing a public speaking or a four-tested money.

[40:21] A very good.

[40:22] We are going to begin with the applicant if they want to come to the podium.

[40:33] Good morning. Good morning, commissioners. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to

[40:40] speak with you about the fairways in and our requests to expand the property. My name

[40:47] is Steven Merowitz, owner of the fairways in and this is my slide director, my wife and

[40:54] also partner and owner of the fairways in.

[41:00] The presentation is about 10 minutes long, 22 slides

[41:03] And if you have any questions or comments or need further explanation, feel free to interrupt me, and then perhaps I can resume.

[41:14] I want to start by putting this presentation in perspective.

[41:18] The fear ways in has been part of the Naples area for 60 years.

[41:23] What we are proposing is to allow a long-standing, calyre county business to evolve while preserving what is made at successful.

[41:32] Today, I want to explain the history of the property, what we are proposing, and why we believe

[41:38] the expansion is appropriate for this location and beneficial to the community.

[41:47] I'd like to go back to where this began.

[41:50] This aerial photograph gives you a sense of just how different the aerial look when the

[41:55] fairways in was established.

[41:57] The important point is that the fairways in did not come into an established residential

[42:02] neighborhood and try and change it. The end has been here for decades and the surrounding

[42:08] area has developed and changed around it. So when we talk about the future of the property,

[42:14] we're talking about the evolution of a property that has been here for generations.

[42:22] This aerial shows the relationship between the properties. The blue buildings are the existing

[42:33] room expansion and the orange homes will remain residential and importantly will provide a buffer

[42:40] between the proposed development and the other residential properties to the north.

[42:46] The number show how long we've owned each property. As you can see it's been a long term ownership pattern,

[42:54] not something recently assembled for this application or merely put under contract with various

[43:01] sellers for this application.

[43:05] Now I'd like to show you what we're actually proposing.

[43:09] We have spent considerable time looking at how the building will appear from the surrounding area.

[43:14] The goal is for this to look like an appropriate palm river property, not something that feels out of place in this location.

[43:24] These renderings give you a much better idea of what the finished project will actually look like.

[43:30] The design incorporates landscaping and architectural elements associated with the existing

[43:36] fairways in.

[43:38] We want the new construction to feel like an extension of the property, not a completely

[43:43] different property.

[43:47] What are the important benefits of this layout is how it affects the movement of our guests.

[43:53] The proposed addition is connected to the existing motel, so guests are naturally oriented

[43:59] toward the center of the property.

[44:01] They are not coming and going at multiple points around the perimeter of the 2.5-acre site.

[44:08] In other words, we're concentrating pedestrian activity within the property, rather than dispersing it along the boundaries next to the residential area.

[44:18] That is an important distinction when you're looking at the relationship between the expanded motel and the neighboring homes.

[44:25] The entire property will have a strong landscape buffer perimeter.

[44:36] This photograph represents something that doesn't show up on a site plan.

[44:41] Our commitment to this property.

[44:43] Since 1998, we've operated the fairways in as owner operators.

[44:49] We have not treated it as a short-term real estate investment.

[44:53] We put time, money, effort into maintaining and improving the property.

[44:58] and we believe there is

[45:00] This is a difference between someone trying to maximize a short term gain and an owner who has spent decades operating a business and being part of the community.

[45:13] One thing we have tried to, one of the things we have tried to do is preserve the character of the fairways in, while still giving guests the standard that they expect today.

[45:23] We're not trying to turn the fairways in into a generic modern hotel, we're trying to preserve its identity,

[45:31] while making sure the property remains competitive and attractive to visitors.

[45:37] The same philosophy applies outside.

[45:40] The landscaping and outdoor areas are a very significant part of what makes the fairways in different.

[45:46] We believe there is real value in maintaining this old Florida atmosphere.

[45:50] It gives visitors an experience that is very different from staying in a conventional large-scale hotel.

[45:58] This character is something we intend to preserve as we expand.

[46:05] The Fairways in also serves purposes that go beyond ordinary overnight lodging.

[46:12] We have accommodated people during difficult periods, including disaster-related, related housing needs.

[46:18] We provided lodging for people connected with the local hospital that require extended stays.

[46:26] And we've been part of local family gatherings, celebrations and weddings.

[46:33] So when we talk about adding rooms, we're not simply talking about adding inventory.

[46:38] We're adding capacity to a business that has already served a variety of needs in the community.

[46:47] Why do we need? Or one to expand? The answer is demand. The fairways in consistently operates

[46:56] at very strong occupancy levels and our guest reviews demonstrate that people value what we are offering.

[47:04] We have repeat guests who come back year after year. That tells us something that a single occupancy number does not.

[47:13] There is an established demand for this type of lodging experience in the Calier County area.

[47:22] I also want to address safety and compliance directly.

[47:26] We take these issues very seriously.

[47:29] As long-term owner operators are objective is to provide a safe environment for our guests, our employees, and the surrounding community.

[47:39] We have worked with the fire district and other authorities to address concerns and make sure

[47:46] that our operations comply with applicable requirements.

[47:50] I don't want to minimize any safety concern.

[47:53] If there is an issue, we want to know about it, address it, and correct it.

[48:00] Another thing that distinguishes the fear ways in is our employees.

[48:05] Hospitality is a people business.

[48:07] The experience our guests have is heavily influenced by the people who work here.

[48:13] We've been fortunate to have employees who stay with us for long periods of time.

[48:19] This creates something you can't simply buy, a deep knowledge of the property and a

[48:24] relationship with returning guests.

[48:27] We believe the expansion will allow us to continue building that workforce and position

[48:33] the fairways to retain quality staff, long into the future.

[48:40] I think there is a larger community

[48:41] issue here as well. How your county needs places for people who work in the area to stay that

[48:49] often involve people of skilled trades. So lodging isn't an isolated business focused only on

[48:56] vacationers. It's part of a much larger economic system. Our goal is to add to that system in a

[49:03] I want to address the neighbors' concerns directly because I believe that is important to this board.

[49:14] There is a difference between a perception about a property and what the documented history actually shows.

[49:23] We've heard concerns about kitchens and associated fire issues, flooding, 911 calls, and other matters.

[49:31] We believe those concerns should be evaluated based upon the actual record and the applicable regulations.

[49:41] We aren't asking the board to ignore concerns.

[49:44] We're asking that the decision be based on facts and the requirements that apply to this property.

[49:52] If I could reduce our case to three things, it would be these.

[49:55] First, history.

[49:58] Fairways in has been here since 1966 and has become part of the fabric of this area.

[50:06] Second, operations.

[50:08] We have demonstrated over many years that we can operate the property successfully, maintain

[50:13] it, and provide high quality experiences for our guests.

[50:19] And third, the economic side, we are providing lodging, employment, and support for the

[50:25] economy. These three things are the foundation of why I believe the expansion is appropriate.

[50:37] Ultimately, this comes down to whether a property that has successfully operated in the community

[50:42] for six decades should have the opportunity to evolve. We believe the expansion is the next

[50:49] logical step, not simply because we want more rooms, but because the property and the market

[50:55] have reached a point where additional capacity makes sense.

[50:59] We're asking for the opportunity to continue what we've been doing

[51:02] at a scale that makes sense for the future.

[51:07] The uniqueness of the vintage design is something that is particularly important to us.

[51:12] We are trying to preserve the character of the fairways in,

[51:17] but not freeze the property in time.

[51:22] A successful community needs workers, and those of workers needs somewhere to stay.

[51:27] By creating additional logic and capacity, we're contributing to a workforce that is an important part of the Collier County economy.

[51:38] Our manager, who has worked at the Fairways 17 years grew up and has lived most of her life right here in Paul River,

[51:47] talk about roots connected to the local community.

[51:50] Strong consumer demand, quality guest experience, high repeat business defines the essence of the fairways.

[52:00] A 30-year record of outstanding safety and security for guests and employees in the subdivision.

[52:08] Commissioners, let me bring this back to the fundamental decision before you.

[52:12] We believe we've earned the opportunity to take this next step to expand and to secure the future of the fairways in and

[52:21] We would like your support in that endeavor. Thank you. Thank you

[52:31] Questions from the board at this time? Do we have a staff report on this?

[52:39] Mr. Bozzi is making his way

[52:51] up.

[52:52] One board, Mike Bozzi, planning and zoning director.

[52:55] Just to provide an overview of the project in terms of its hearing before the planning commission was heard on June 4.

[53:05] The Planning Commission recommended by a 6-2-0 margin of recommendation of denial to the board

[53:14] specifically related to concerns related to the fire in police report and as well as code enforcement

[53:20] issues associated with the facilities and some of the kitchenette within the facility.

[53:31] staff, going into the planning commission, had a recommendation of approval, one of the things

[53:36] that staff recognizes is you saw the individual single family homes that they own.

[53:42] Those homes, and I know they're not utilized in this way, but those homes can be rented out

[53:47] on a short-term basis.

[53:49] And we felt that the requests to convert those homes to the hotel proper or to a extension

[53:58] of the hotel proper and have that intensity focused inward towards the interior of the

[54:05] property instead of exterior of the property as it currently exists as single family homes

[54:10] was an overall benefit. Staff is still recommending a recommendation of approval but we do

[54:17] have an additional condition that we are having cooperated with into the proposed PUD or the proposed

[54:25] resolution that specific says if approved no further development orders will be issued for the

[54:32] 30-room hotel expansion until all failed inspections from the annual inspections of the existing hotel

[54:38] by the North-Cuyre North-Cuyre fire district and the 2020 to the present date in the

[54:55] countertops without a permit or fully resolved.

[54:58] Staff is concerned that there has been ongoing issues,

[55:05] relates to a fire district that is stretched over a year.

[55:09] And that type of time frame we think has been adequate

[55:14] for those issues to be resolved

[55:16] and before we would recommend the expansion to be able to move forward

[55:20] would be that those issues all have to be satisfied

[55:23] in terms of addressing them all.

[55:28] In regards to the, in regards to the petition,

[55:34] we understand that there are some concerns from the neighborhoods

[55:36] related to code enforcement.

[55:39] We think based upon the existence of this property for 60 years

[55:44] in this residential community.

[55:47] The residents have really grown up around this hotel.

[55:51] And one of the things that we'll not, even if this project is denied, those properties that are owned by the fairways in,

[56:00] just the seven single family houses that they own, in addition to the hotel, they can all be utilized as short-term rentals.

[56:06] They could be part of this hotel, but not incorporate, not buffered, not shielded from the neighborhood.

[56:13] And because of those concerns, we think it's an overall benefit through the neighborhood.

[56:17] If it was a brought into the hotel proper, so they could focus that intensity to the

[56:24] interior of the property.

[56:27] So with that, any questions that you may have for staff?

[56:31] Mr. McDonald.

[56:33] Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[56:34] Mr. Bozy.

[56:35] How many units are currently there?

[56:38] 46.

[56:39] 46.

[56:39] A narrow expansion is an additional 30.

[56:45] And what are the existing height limitations on the RT that they currently have for the

[56:51] Motel exists?

[56:53] RT is a 75 feet right in, but the hotel is not developed to that height.

[56:59] I understand that.

[57:01] That wasn't my question.

[57:02] My question was what are the height limitations that are currently allowed on the side

[57:06] as it sits?

[57:07] The RT's only district allows a 100 feet of height.

[57:11] I'm sorry.

[57:12] That was my question.

[57:14] Thank you.

[57:16] Mr. Saunders.

[57:18] Thank you.

[57:18] Can you elaborate a little bit on the code violations, the fire issues?

[57:24] That was one of the major points brought up for the recommendation of the Nile by the Planning Board.

[57:30] And I'm curious because you mentioned countertops.

[57:34] It made it sound like all these violations relate to work dealing with countertops.

[57:40] So, give me some more detail on code violations issues with the fire department, any other regulatory issues and the history of that.

[57:52] The code violation for the growth management was related to the countertops.

[57:58] The kitchenettes in terms of the stoves and the venting systems that are associated with it were the issues that were associated with the fire department.

[58:09] And those have been ongoing, like I said, it's been over a year that those issues have been outstanding.

[58:17] I know that the owner is working with the fire district to come into compliance,

[58:22] but they are still issues that have not been addressed.

[58:28] Say that the owner is working to come into compliance.

[58:31] But it's been over a year and it deals with the kitchenettes.

[58:35] I'm not sure why I would take a year to do that, is there's some particular reason?

[58:40] And I guess the reason I'm asking this is just in terms of timing, should this petition be heard once those code issues and fire issues have been resolved?

[58:52] I realize that that's somewhat unrelated to the actual construction issue here.

[58:58] But if we have a knowner that's not in compliance,

[59:03] It seems to me that we shouldn't consider these applications potentially into question until those issues are resolved.

[59:10] And I think that would be a procedural due process question that we could explore a little bit more with the kind of attorney's office.

[59:15] But I don't believe that that prohibits them from asking for the expansion.

[59:20] And that's why staff is suggesting a condition if we were to find the recommend or to approve this that we would not allow for the expansion of the 30 additional units and to all the code issues and all the fire issues have been addressed.

[59:37] You can, if you wish, just put this over for a time, it takes them to get into compliance.

[59:49] That's within your cognitive.

[59:53] That's what I would have to send.

[59:54] That wasn't too word about due process.

[59:56] I was just worried about getting compliance.

[59:59] So I appreciate that.

[1:00:04] That's all I have for right now. I'm just want to plant the seed with the board. Is this the right timing? Maybe it is, but I feel a little uncomfortable proceeding with an expansion of a project while there are code violations of fire violations out there.

[1:00:22] I'm not suggesting that it's the basis for a denial necessarily, but it may be, but I'm

[1:00:28] not suggesting that this thing in terms of timing.

[1:00:34] Thank you.

[1:00:35] Thank you, Chairman.

[1:00:36] You know, Mr. Bosing a couple of questions for you.

[1:00:38] First of the applicant, I just wanted to say you and I met on August 24th.

[1:00:42] You get me up the speed on this.

[1:00:44] And to just be quite frank, you know, we went back and forth.

[1:00:47] I had a million questions.

[1:00:49] You had a million slides in front of you.

[1:00:51] And I gave you a few pieces of advice to be ready in here.

[1:00:55] This is exactly the kind of presentation that I was talking about.

[1:00:58] I'm not saying it makes it a approval, but to give us a good overview and cover everything

[1:01:04] in a very eloquent way as we were talking and it's a little different when you're in our

[1:01:07] offices.

[1:01:08] I want that when you come in here.

[1:01:10] This was a huge improvement to at least fill in some blanks for me, so I'm obviously put

[1:01:15] some time into it.

[1:01:16] And we appreciate that because to make a decision, we want both sides to be

[1:01:21] able to have the best presentation possible.

[1:01:24] Having said that, Mr. Vosie, a couple of questions that I just wrote down for you to piggyback

[1:01:28] off of Commissioner Saunders, I wrote kind of a very similar thing, but I said these recommendations

[1:01:35] by fire and other that are still hanging loose that need to be fixed.

[1:01:40] How big of a muscle movement slash investment would that be?

[1:01:44] I'm asking you to just sort of like, you know, average gas, you know, these big major things

[1:01:49] And I want some of this stuff to go on the record, too, so some of it, I got some of the answers here, but give me the short version as to, you know, the list that's still hanging out there.

[1:01:58] If we did delay this, you know, pushed off the, hey, you know, you need to be much closer to approval before we're going to consider it.

[1:02:06] Well, how big of a muscle movement would this be in an investment? Are these big things?

[1:02:11] Well, as a planner, not as a building contractor of an engineer, I have a hard time in terms of quantifying from a numeric or a dollar perspective, but I don't believe that they are insurmountable.

[1:02:28] I think that they are simply of inspecting and ensuring that the construction of how those facilities were put in met the criteria that the fire district is looking for.

[1:02:41] I think it's really just aren't just working with the fire district and code enforcement to address these issues and for whatever reason the applicant has not taken the time to do that.

[1:02:51] Yeah, and you know, we see a lot of projects in here.

[1:02:55] That piece is standard, right? Usually they, you know, the applicant comes in here and those things are hit.

[1:03:00] And Surnas, sometimes I, to, there again, piggyback on a commissioner, Sonder, say, I don't

[1:03:07] necessarily hate the idea of saying, hey, get these things in order and then come back

[1:03:11] here and we have a more complete, you know, a package, but then we run the risk of sort

[1:03:16] of sending the signal that, oh, if you have these things done, we're leaning towards approval.

[1:03:21] Well, I've got some other concerns, and I'm sure we're going to hear from public comments.

[1:03:25] So I don't want to give the impression that make the investment and then come in here and

[1:03:30] we still disapprove it.

[1:03:32] But you know, coming in here is risky.

[1:03:34] There's people that spend millions on architects and design

[1:03:39] and all kinds of things to come in here

[1:03:40] and get something to improve.

[1:03:42] So if it's something you really bad, it takes investment.

[1:03:45] And if these aren't multimillion dollar things,

[1:03:48] it could give you a better chance to come in here

[1:03:50] and at least make a presentation.

[1:03:51] This doesn't have as many loose ends.

[1:03:53] But I caution that if we kind of say that,

[1:03:58] and I don't think that's what Commissioner Saunders

[1:04:00] is implying, but I think the implication is come back here with these things, there's less

[1:04:05] moving parts, and you got a better chance of approval, and you might, but also to

[1:04:09] you're taking a risk of that investment.

[1:04:12] The change in the growth management plan, you know, we have many projects that come

[1:04:17] before us that, you know, there's some sort of request to change a growth management plan.

[1:04:24] A lot of times, civilians or citizens don't realize is they come in many different weights

[1:04:29] and changes, sometimes the changes is very small,

[1:04:32] yet we'll get a thousand hundreds of emails from people saying

[1:04:36] you should never change the growth management plan

[1:04:38] and then the reality is the neighborhood they live in,

[1:04:40] it was changed significantly to build their house.

[1:04:44] So, you know, but that's a whole another story,

[1:04:46] but it does, the growth management plan is a document

[1:04:49] that the applicant has the legal right to request the change.

[1:04:54] How big compared to the things we do across the big spectrum,

[1:04:57] And there again, I want to sort of get this on the record with this B, as far as a change.

[1:05:03] You know, when you, when you laundry list the things that we would have to vote on and say,

[1:05:07] you know, this is where the change compared to some other projects,

[1:05:13] where we've made changes to the GMP.

[1:05:16] The, the request for just over a two acre modification adjustment to the growth management plan

[1:05:23] to include the RFF three properties into the RTs only to the RTs only difference is considered commercial zoning district allows for allows for the hotel to be developed there currently right now that the area is scheduled for residential development so it's a significant it's a upgrade of from residential to commercial so it is a significant change but because this hotel has been there for

[1:05:53] for 60 years, it's not an unexpected request or proposal based upon the desire to expand

[1:06:02] the facilities, but in terms of overall what type of a muscle movement is from a growth

[1:06:09] management plan standpoint, it's a significant change for the immediate area, but for the

[1:06:18] larger GNP, it's relatively small change.

[1:06:21] And at times, the changes we've made

[1:06:23] to growth management plan, they're just not arbitrary.

[1:06:25] And I'm not sitting here saying, oh, I think I'm voting.

[1:06:28] Yes, I still have a question.

[1:06:30] And I want to hear from the public and have some follow-ups from you.

[1:06:34] But when I think back to the time for we

[1:06:36] have voted almost in the anonymously,

[1:06:38] at times the anonymously it was because the change

[1:06:41] made sense, it provided for a huge upgrade

[1:06:44] for an area that was a big advantage.

[1:06:49] Also, this applicant owns those pieces.

[1:06:51] So sometimes when there's a change of the GMP and they need to acquire a bunch of pieces

[1:06:56] and there's a lot more movement, parts of such a look very sloppy.

[1:07:00] So I'm just sitting here weighing it.

[1:07:01] My last question for you would be, and this is more to get your expertise to summarize

[1:07:07] on the record, what a lot of people who are watching this might not, you know, know.

[1:07:12] The disagreement between staff, recommending approval and the color accounting planning

[1:07:17] commission, give the sort of synopsis as to, as this presentation change significantly

[1:07:24] since what they presented, he presented in front of the Planning Commission or where

[1:07:30] The disconnect, because the planning commission, you know, we do maybe a little bit of a deeper dive. You know, we asked them to sort of vet this at step one at times. I've said their job is to really set the table for us. Ask really hard hitting questions that allows both sides to tighten up their presentation and then when they come here, you know, they've already sort of gone through it once. What would you say? Because obviously you were there and spoke, I have no doubt. What do you think for the record were the big concerns they had and have any of those things been changed?

[1:08:00] or we're hearing the exact same presentation but just with a different set of years.

[1:08:05] You are here to a different presentation.

[1:08:07] The owner didn't speak at the Plan and Commission meeting.

[1:08:10] It was the representative.

[1:08:11] No debis was the applicant at the time provided the overview and I think the focus and

[1:08:19] the concentration upon the code enforcement issues and the fire issues were the biggest

[1:08:24] issues that the Plan and Commission really had and I think that motivated the

[1:08:29] the six-year-old recommendation of denial in quite frankly, I am somewhat surprised that in

[1:08:37] that presentation, and it was a good presentation talking about the history and its context

[1:08:41] and how it fits within the overall residential development that has grown up around it.

[1:08:46] I'm surprised that the owner did an address that, because you're asking me about why the

[1:08:51] has taken so long, I only have second-hand information knowledge of that.

[1:08:55] I think that's a question that would be most appropriately directed to the applicant

[1:08:59] to explain why such hardiness or why it's been a long-gated period to come into compliance.

[1:09:06] And because of that concern, I think the Plan and Commission felt that awarding 30 additional

[1:09:13] rooms to somebody who hasn't taken serious health safety welfare issue is of concern.

[1:09:20] So those were the focus of the Plan and Commission discussion and some of the code enforcement

[1:09:27] issues. What I would say is from my perspective, I understand that running a hotel, it's

[1:09:33] tough to always, you know, contain some of the excitement of the visitors in a lot of times

[1:09:42] that the code enforcement issues have been portrayed as, that the guests have been unruly.

[1:09:50] But looking at the number of complaints over the past 15 years, I don't think it's been

[1:09:55] excessive in that regard. But I think the issues of some of the code enforcement issues related

[1:10:00] to the guest behavior, the lack of attention to addressing health safety welfare issues

[1:10:05] that have been raised by the fire district, was probably the most concerning and the things

[1:10:10] that really persuaded the planning commission to that recommendation.

[1:10:13] That's what I really wanted to get, because that was my takeaway that, and even we take

[1:10:18] that answer, is the duration when time seems to click by, and it doesn't seem like the

[1:10:23] there and then all of a sudden there's this mass scramble to come in here and say oh my gosh you know I need this thing approved and it's the greatest thing

[1:10:30] I'm the history of the world, but then you sort of go back in the timeline. There was a window there where you could have shown a sense of urgency, but sometimes there's a reason

[1:10:38] I'll just have one more add on

[1:10:40] because I didn't catch this in the notes. I scanned the

[1:10:46] Dialogue of the Planet Commission just to get a sense of what they talked about, but I don't know that I pulled it out of there

[1:10:51] did any to your recollection, anyone from the planning commission and their comments with something

[1:10:56] similar to what Commissioner Saunders said and said, you know, accelerate these issues with

[1:11:01] the fire department and you know, you're maybe he gave a reason and it was a little fan,

[1:11:05] but they said that was a thing, that was the thing that caused them concern, but was a suggestion

[1:11:10] even with the way it came that the caveat was, hey, you know, if you really fix these things

[1:11:17] here, you know, I would have felt differently about it.

[1:11:20] I didn't sort of pull that out of the comments.

[1:11:22] So if somebody said it, it must have just been on one sentence, unless you recall it.

[1:11:26] I'm not sure if that was, it wasn't a direct comment, but I think that was the undertone

[1:11:31] of planning commission was if these issues would have been addressed in a more timely fashion,

[1:11:37] I think maybe the perspective in terms of the request may have been looked at in a different

[1:11:41] light.

[1:11:42] Okay, thank you, sir.

[1:11:43] Commissioner Hall.

[1:11:45] Thank you.

[1:11:47] Tom, how many public speakers are in on this?

[1:11:51] We have 15, sir.

[1:11:54] All right, I'm going to go ahead and say what I'm thinking,

[1:11:57] and then we'll hear them.

[1:11:59] As the district commissioner,

[1:12:01] I've heard from multiple multiple people,

[1:12:03] and whether, and I'm not going to be a fan of this project,

[1:12:07] and I told them that when I met them,

[1:12:11] property rights are sacred,

[1:12:13] And the owner has RT zoning, and they have the rights to build up where they're existing.

[1:12:20] They have the right to short-term rental their houses that they own behind them.

[1:12:23] They have every right to do that.

[1:12:24] I have no problem with that.

[1:12:27] But to rezone and make everything commercial, to me it just opens up a whole new can of worms.

[1:12:38] You know, we don't know what the future holds.

[1:12:40] Lift locals in place right now.

[1:12:42] They can sell that property as it's rezone.

[1:12:45] And we could have all kinds of things happen over there, whether that's the intention, I highly doubt that, but that's a possibility.

[1:12:53] Whether I would like to see the existing code stuff, you know, taking care of right now, where they're existing, but that plays no.

[1:13:01] That has no weight with me on my decision.

[1:13:03] I've heard from multiple multiple people that live in Palm River.

[1:13:07] Palm River is a neat place to live, and it's all for, I appreciate the history of the fairways.

[1:13:13] I think it sits right there, it's perfect just like, you know, it's quaint, it serves a purpose, but to grow it, I'm not going to be a fan of it.

[1:13:22] So let's hear from the public, and we'll probably have some more discussion up here, and take a vote.

[1:13:28] We're going to hear from Commissioner Daniel first.

[1:13:31] One more time.

[1:13:34] Has there been an estimate on, because you shared with me early, that the height limitations on our T are 100 feet?

[1:13:41] And has there been an estimate of, and that's by right.

[1:13:46] He's making submit a site development plan,

[1:13:48] come to us, meet the criteria,

[1:13:50] don't have to receive approval to go to that hundred feet.

[1:13:54] Has it been an estimate to the increase in units that could be accommodated there?

[1:14:00] There's been no estimate for us to apply.

[1:14:02] Is there a density per acre?

[1:14:06] There is no limitation in terms of the,

[1:14:10] the country because it all has to say it has to with your floor ratio and size of the

[1:14:16] units and depending on what they end up doing. They met necessarily could accommodate

[1:14:20] their density increased by going up and not out. I personally I like the layout of the

[1:14:30] two stories in lieu of 100 feet and so on and so forth I think it's more conducive for the

[1:14:36] How long is the applicant been in the system as far as when did the original apply?

[1:14:43] Because I know I've had multiple meetings with both his lawyer and his well.

[1:14:51] It's been two years, it's a 2024 application.

[1:14:55] So it has been in the system for a while.

[1:14:58] And I feel similarly to...

[1:15:00] Missionary Hall with regard, I mean, health safety and welfare certainly is a big concern. But if, if, if, if I'm the applicant and I'm going to retry the, the units that I have, those, those, those, those hoods and things are necessarily going to go away, if, if the approval were in fact going to come forward. So I wouldn't necessarily be trotting to go spend a bunch of money to fix things that are going to go away in the first place. So, I'm not given them a pass.

[1:15:30] on not attending those things, but from a financial standpoint, if the

[1:15:36] retrofit, if the rezone were in fact proved, those would go away with the new

[1:15:40] construction anyway.

[1:15:44] So, and that's all I have for right now.

[1:15:46] Can I just add one thing?

[1:15:47] Sure.

[1:15:48] Before we go to the public speakers, maybe this will help set the table a little bit.

[1:15:52] I didn't come here with, you know, a letter everybody speak and I already know how I'm going

[1:15:55] to vote.

[1:15:55] I mean, I've been over the last couple of weeks,

[1:15:58] gather information on this, you know,

[1:16:00] it's had an artistic, we've all been doing that.

[1:16:03] One thing that I always weigh is I look at projects like this

[1:16:05] and I go, okay, I want a way change, you know,

[1:16:09] he wants to do something to change,

[1:16:11] you know, that whole footprint change versus improvement.

[1:16:14] So what I would just tell the citizens,

[1:16:16] you all are sitting on great comments,

[1:16:17] this is where you live, you know, a lot more

[1:16:19] about this neighborhood than, you know, any of us,

[1:16:23] because this is where you live.

[1:16:24] Think about that as you come up and sort of package your comments, you know, a lot of times people come to the podium

[1:16:29] They just say we just don't want at growth is horrible. You need to vote no or you're a horrible, you know

[1:16:33] Commissioner and that's great. You get your three minutes, but that doesn't help us assimilate all this information

[1:16:39] So those of you that sit here and go, hey, I'm not I'm not saying it won't look pretty or but here's why it's not an improvement

[1:16:45] That that's the kind of valuable information that really makes the public comments

[1:16:51] The best they can be you can say whatever you want

[1:16:54] here I'm not I'm not trying to edit anything that you're saying but I'm going to be looking

[1:16:57] for those people that have a deeper dive that are closer to this community to really explain

[1:17:02] to us the missing pieces in here so it just doesn't come down to fix the fire things,

[1:17:08] fix the hoods and the kitchens or whatever and then all of a sudden this thing sounds wonderful.

[1:17:13] What are the things that make this what is being presented as an improvement as far as a

[1:17:20] and an upgrade to the neighborhood, if you will, that's what's being presented.

[1:17:26] Why is that not true?

[1:17:28] That's a very important piece at this podium, at least for me.

[1:17:32] And I know for my colleagues as well, this isn't rocket science.

[1:17:35] That's what we're weighing.

[1:17:36] Nobody has some preconceived thing here that we're investors in this project.

[1:17:41] And it's got to go through.

[1:17:43] And I really want to make a sound decision here.

[1:17:46] And I think the public comments can be the most important piece of this whole discussion.

[1:17:50] And so maybe think about that before we come up here and just read your speech about where

[1:17:54] horrible commissioners turning this place into Miami and we should all be voted out

[1:17:58] of office because we have no integrity, that's not the case.

[1:18:01] So thank you, so I look forward to your comments.

[1:18:05] Mr. Saunders.

[1:18:06] Thank you.

[1:18:07] A couple questions for the county attorney, just the curiosity at this point.

[1:18:11] The current zoning on the property is single family RS3 and the request is to change that

[1:18:18] to and residents' tourism and change that to commercial planning and development. Under the existing

[1:18:25] zoning right now, the single family and the residential tourist, does any of that qualify

[1:18:32] for a live local under current zoning?

[1:18:37] The commercial social circle certainly does, okay.

[1:18:40] And how big is that commercial deep section?

[1:18:46] I believe it's one and a half acre. I'm sorry.

[1:18:48] What in a half?

[1:18:50] And then if it's all changed to commercial planning and development, we did some discussions

[1:18:58] concerning planning and development and the applicability of the local, if it's changed

[1:19:05] to that commercial planning and development, the whole parcel there, would that then qualify

[1:19:10] for a live local?

[1:19:11] Yes, sir.

[1:19:13] That parcel would be how big?

[1:19:16] That would be a total of four acres.

[1:19:19] So that would be a potentially a substantial issue.

[1:19:22] Housing and affordability.

[1:19:24] If this was a proof, that would be an issue for us to be somewhat concerned about, I would think at some point.

[1:19:30] Not necessarily for this petition.

[1:19:31] I just want to get that that clarifying as to what parcels might possibly be subject to live local.

[1:19:42] So thank you.

[1:19:43] Okay, I see no more questions from the board for you.

[1:19:48] How many speakers we have again, Tom?

[1:19:50] We have 15, sir.

[1:19:51] 15.

[1:19:52] We have a scheduled court report of break within the next 15 minutes.

[1:19:57] Terry, if we want to go ahead and maybe do that before we go to public comment.

[1:20:03] And I just want to let everybody know that I've been lacking in my job up here today.

[1:20:07] I've been letting people applaud and cheer and stuff like that.

[1:20:10] Typically we don't like to do that because if somebody's on here and you don't agree with them

[1:20:14] with somebody who's in halls in the audience, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's not fair.

[1:20:18] You know, you might like something somebody's saying, you might dislike something somebody's saying.

[1:20:21] So let's just all be, even, remember the young ladies that's read that passage earlier,

[1:20:27] but it's all being kind and getting along. So let's just remember that when people appear at the podium, okay?

[1:20:34] I'm going to go ahead and take this quarter quarter break and we'll be back in 10-20.

[1:20:40] Take a 10-minute, 10-26.

[1:20:42] All

[1:20:45] together.

[1:20:46] And then I give some of the chance to think about it.

[1:30:56] Okay, if everybody go ahead and take their seats, we're going to go ahead and get started again. And just remind everybody, once again, you cell phones on silence and respect the people at the podium, okay?

[1:31:10] We have a quorum up here.

[1:31:12] Okay, Tom.

[1:31:15] They can hear, we have speakers out in the hallways in the bathroom and everything. So they hear everything you say and just let you know.

[1:31:20] And I'll miss in anything.

[1:31:23] Good to see you.

[1:31:23] Mr. Chair, we have 15 registered speakers, 14 in the room, and one on Zoom in the

[1:31:28] interest of time.

[1:31:29] I will ask speakers to queue up at both podiums.

[1:31:34] You'll have three minutes to speak, and if you could, if I may ask, state your name for

[1:31:39] the record.

[1:31:40] Our first registered speaker is Patricia Perisi, and she will be followed by Bay Bay

[1:31:45] Canter.

[1:31:57] Good morning.

[1:31:58] Good morning.

[1:31:59] Patricia Parisi and I live at 475 Palmer of the Boulevard. Yes, that Parisi. I saw the

[1:32:05] look at I see. That's the email Parisi.

[1:32:09] I live at 475 Palmer of the Boulevard. I have

[1:32:14] been a resident and homeowner for 30 years. I have seen many different many things in

[1:32:23] I was there before saw grass, before horse creek, before the authorized building, my concern today is mostly the traffic and parking.

[1:32:37] Okay, we only have two entrances and exits into our community.

[1:32:42] And I was very happy with Steve, right? Steve's presentation.

[1:32:47] because he showed what the fairways in looked like in 1964.

[1:32:54] Well, there was no palm river in 1964.

[1:32:57] So yes, now we have over 2,000 residences

[1:33:01] that have to go through the two entrances and exits.

[1:33:07] And one entrance already has major commercial.

[1:33:11] or that's the one on Piper and Pomp and Cypress Way East.

[1:33:18] Okay, so my concern really is the off-street parking on this his tracks of land.

[1:33:27] So I did a lot of research into your PUDs and what the planning commission last time was not aware of is that you're going to be ruling today

[1:33:40] on both tracks of lanes.

[1:33:42] The Planning Commission thought it was just the extension,

[1:33:45] but it's not because he's asking you

[1:33:48] to put both tracks A and B together in one CPU day.

[1:33:53] Now, your PUD states that there can be no off-street parking.

[1:33:58] Well, that's what's there now.

[1:34:00] So in order to fulfill his requirements for parking,

[1:34:05] he needs 84 parking spots.

[1:34:07] Okay, for these 76, he is using 42 of those 84 parking spots as

[1:34:17] Off Street parking, which you're already there in track day. So if you, okay, this

[1:34:23] Incorporated track day track B

[1:34:27] CPUD

[1:34:28] Those parking spots, he doesn't have enough parking, and I know he said that the residential or the

[1:34:35] pedestrian traffic will stay internal.

[1:34:39] But, track day in track B, they both have,

[1:34:43] they both have, they have to go through the same check-in,

[1:34:47] check-out, and they're all using the same facilities.

[1:34:52] So, that's my main concern.

[1:34:54] I have been personally almost involved in three,

[1:34:58] thank goodness, almost involved in three accidents,

[1:35:00] where I have been coming down that street,

[1:35:03] of a boulevard and stopped because people were already half way out of those parking spots.

[1:35:11] Well, people behind me, they don't stop. And I've almost been re-rendered. So that's my concern.

[1:35:18] I know you have other concerns, but just look at the Austrian parking. It already states it in the

[1:35:24] you did. Thank you. Our next registered speaker is Bay Bay

[1:35:30] Canter and she will be followed by Joan Ramino. Hi today I'm speaking as the

[1:35:36] founder of Quiet Collier and I did clap for Jackie K because I missed her. Jackie

[1:35:44] K is a great speaker. I wish she came more often. I don't always agree with what

[1:35:49] She says, but it's always very interesting.

[1:35:52] I've already spoken to the owner about this.

[1:35:56] And my recommendation to them is that when they come back here,

[1:36:01] they should do more to buffer their proposal.

[1:36:06] Even if they don't pass, they should do more to buffer their

[1:36:09] proposal because there is not enough sound buffering.

[1:36:13] There are ways of making sure that their guests enter the streets more slowly by using bumps within.

[1:36:22] And then also, it's very common to have, for neighbors to be upset about dumpster activity.

[1:36:30] And there will be more dumpster activity if this project is approved because there's more dumps.

[1:36:38] And it's very noisy in the morning.

[1:36:40] So I think that, no matter what they should do, they should make greater effort, which

[1:36:46] I looked at the plans, they could do a lot better in terms of their sound modifications

[1:36:52] and slowing down traffic, and the other thing, which apparently, they didn't emphasize,

[1:36:59] is that they have all native plants, it's a bird sanctuary, which is more than you can

[1:37:05] for any housing surrounding houses when you plant native plants and bushes you become a sanctuary

[1:37:13] for wildlife. Maybe you should require that they put in some bad houses. I would and I would also

[1:37:18] be very strict about dark sky. Thank you very much.

[1:37:24] Our next registered speaker is Joan Ramino

[1:37:27] She will be followed by Gerald Hoagland.

[1:37:30] Good morning. My name is Joni Ramone. My family and I live at 168 Palm View Drive, which is in close proximity to the site that we are talking about.

[1:37:40] I'm here to speak about the rezoning from a residential to commercial land use. The rezoning permanently removes the RSF 3 land from the residential supply in one of the north-nables, most accessible ownership neighborhoods.

[1:37:56] and that loss cannot be undone. The Palm River neighborhood represents something increasingly rare

[1:38:03] in call your county. An established owner occupied single-family neighborhood with a range of

[1:38:09] home prices accessible to a broad cross-section of residents. In a county where the median home

[1:38:16] price now exceeds $600,000, neighborhoods like this with an intact residential character,

[1:38:22] RFF3 zoning and proximity to employment corridors are finite and diminishing resources.

[1:38:29] The argument here operates at the zoning level, not the parcel level.

[1:38:34] Whether these four specific houses are currently owner occupied, rented, rented, or otherwise used is beside the point, which matters is that the RFF3 zoning is a designation that makes residential use possible here as a right.

[1:38:50] No special approvals, no rezoning, no GMPA required.

[1:38:55] Once these parcels are converted to commercial-planed unit development through the GMPA,

[1:39:00] that designation is permanently gone. Beyond these four houses,

[1:39:05] the President matters enormously. The hotel owner controls additional parcels

[1:39:10] and has a clear path to continue expanding northward. Each approval makes the next request

[1:39:17] easier to justify. The cumulative effect of the incremental commercial encroachment is a gradually

[1:39:23] erosion of the residential character that makes palm river the viable ownership and neighborhood

[1:39:29] that it is. Once that character is lost it cannot be legislated back and the county should

[1:39:35] weigh not just what is being requested today but what approving this request makes possible tomorrow.

[1:39:42] A GMPA is a one way door.

[1:39:45] The question is not what happens to these four lots.

[1:39:48] It's what this approval makes possible for every residential parcel to the north.

[1:39:53] Thank you.

[1:39:54] Thank you.

[1:39:56] Our next registered speaker is Gerald Hogland.

[1:39:59] Gerald has a speaker who is seating time and Hogland.

[1:40:04] Raise your hand, Anne.

[1:40:06] Thanks.

[1:40:06] Thank you, Anne.

[1:40:07] Gerald, you will have six minutes, sir.

[1:40:09] All right.

[1:40:12] I don't know what that planning guy that came up there that was at the planning meeting.

[1:40:18] I don't know, I'm not good at names.

[1:40:23] I don't know what meeting he attended.

[1:40:25] But the fire hazard was a big thing for them.

[1:40:29] But the main reason that they had planning commission turned down this request was because it was not acceptable.

[1:40:42] in this area. And there was no reason for it to be in this area. Now the fairway

[1:40:51] motel has, I've asked everybody how the fairway motel got there in the first place

[1:40:58] and everybody said it was grandfather clause into the master plan of the

[1:41:04] builder because it was already there and they had to build around it so they

[1:41:11] that it was grandfathered clause down. And because it was grandfathered clause

[1:41:16] down, we've had put up with that fairway motel. Everything that is about a motel

[1:41:23] is not good. And if you want to expand a motel, that's even worse.

[1:41:31] And I believe this

[1:41:35] should be turned down. I think the planning commissioners turned it down and we had a petition

[1:41:42] at the time of the planning commission, or 560 on a petition, to turn this down. I mean this

[1:41:52] is absolutely not needed in this area.

[1:41:58] If they wanted to build a motel, they could go down near

[1:42:04] good-let road and build a motel there next to them restaurants and things like that

[1:42:10] where a motel was probably needed or a hotel not in the middle of a residential area.

[1:42:19] You have on the west side you have a million dollar houses.

[1:42:25] of Sherwood. On the east side, they range from 500 to 750 and the property values on that

[1:42:40] house of all the houses will definitely go down. This is one of the considerations I was reading

[1:42:47] through the GPS of your considerations for this.

[1:42:58] I mean, you don't put a big motel hotel in the middle of a residential area, especially

[1:43:10] a million dollar homes that set right next to this motel, and I think the best alternative

[1:43:19] would be to get rid of the whole motel,

[1:43:25] not expand the motel. And I'm sorry I wasn't

[1:43:29] meeting with you guys to have a great presentation here. I can only read from the notes

[1:43:40] the Dajad.

[1:43:43] And they're talking about the traffic. You had a prove that big building for Arthrax.

[1:43:56] At the end of Coral Vine, you look at that big six-story building. Unfortunately,

[1:44:02] that had 40 apartments in it, or condo, you figure that's too hard, too

[1:44:08] cars per condo. They all come down, foam river, and they're going to

[1:44:18] be coming down in the morning to go to work.

[1:44:24] So you're going to have the

[1:44:30] not what we need, especially at Palm River because it's a Palm River and paper is a big

[1:44:38] accident waiting to happen and there have been several accidents at this corner.

[1:44:45] Let alone at night when all the people, I mean you have traffic backed up all the way to

[1:44:55] the palm river to the highway.

[1:45:00] And this is the most ridiculous thing I've seen adding more buildings and everything else until you fix a road to have enough for traffic.

[1:45:16] And this is the biggest complaint I have is the traffic, they come off of a mockery, they

[1:45:27] turn in, they go down paper all the way to Kirkland and then try and get back onto a mockery.

[1:45:34] So you got that paper having enough traffic.

[1:45:39] Let alone what this motel will add in traffic, because your figure in 72 rooms is going

[1:45:49] to be 72 cars that you're adding to the traffic that is already plugged up,

[1:46:02] and I keep

[1:46:05] losing my train of thought.

[1:46:10] You know, she's second left, so we'll go ahead and finish her.

[1:46:14] Okay, I'm sorry.

[1:46:17] That's it.

[1:46:20] Well, thank you.

[1:46:21] I'm done.

[1:46:22] All right, thank you, sir.

[1:46:25] Your next registered speaker is Maria Styles,

[1:46:28] and she will be followed by Maggie Diaz.

[1:46:38] Good morning.

[1:46:39] My name is Maria Styles, and I'm the property manager for the Fairways and of Naples.

[1:46:44] I'm in a unique position because I am not only a Naples native,

[1:46:48] But I've lived in Palmer ever since 1998. I've witnessed the many changes that have shaped

[1:46:53] not only Naples as a whole, but this neighborhood specifically. Over the years I've learned

[1:46:58] that change is inevitable, but it's just as important to hold on to what is good and to support

[1:47:03] the kinds of development that keep our community in mind. The fairways is a charming mid-century

[1:47:09] style motel. In fact, this year we are celebrating our 60 years in business. Our staff,

[1:47:15] and guests often refer to each other as fairways family.

[1:47:19] Our guests know our staff by name, not because of a name tag,

[1:47:23] but because of the time, attention, and genuine care.

[1:47:26] We give to everyone who stays with us.

[1:47:29] Our team works tirelessly to provide an affordable, clean, and truly unique experience

[1:47:34] and their dedication reflects the support we receive from our corporate office.

[1:47:39] Many of us have worked for Steve for more than 10 years,

[1:47:43] And that is because he is the kind of business man that anyone could hope to work for.

[1:47:48] When summer slowed down and other hotels let seasonal workers go,

[1:47:52] he keeps every one of us full time.

[1:47:55] When COVID shut down our industry and so many people lost their livelihoods,

[1:47:59] he kept us employed.

[1:48:01] We never missed a paycheck.

[1:48:03] That level of dedication to a staff is rare.

[1:48:05] It deserves to be recognized, appreciated, and supported by the community.

[1:48:10] In turn, the Fairways values its community just as deeply.

[1:48:14] We understand the need for affordable, clean, safe, and welcoming hospitality outside of the

[1:48:20] high-end tour market, and we take pride in providing exactly that.

[1:48:24] The Fairways extends discounts for Pomba of Residence, as well as guests who must travel

[1:48:29] to Naples, whether it's for medical reasons, or to visit loved ones in the assisted living

[1:48:33] centers in neighboring hospitals.

[1:48:35] We strive to preserve the qualities that truly matter.

[1:48:39] We celebrate anniversaries, birthdays, and holidays with our guests, and we support them

[1:48:44] through hospice visits, funerals, and major life changes.

[1:48:48] These moments bring our staff and guests close together, and are a big part of why we consider

[1:48:52] ourselves the fairways family.

[1:48:55] Unfortunately, the proposal to expand what we all cherished has brought out some anger

[1:48:59] Then a few felt it was helpful to cause, to direct insults at our team or to his details to fit a narrative.

[1:49:06] Over the past nine years that I have managed to fair ways for Steve,

[1:49:09] I have watched this place grow and blossom into something truly special.

[1:49:13] And I worry about what would happen if it were not Steve who owned this piece of paradise.

[1:49:17] I don't believe a large company would value the history, the staff, the tropical gardens, the neighborhood,

[1:49:23] or the sense of community that we are working so hard to build.

[1:49:26] As a neighbor myself, I genuinely believe that adding another building one that reflects the look of the neighborhood remains open to the public and brings thoughtful change.

[1:49:35] While honoring its history is a positive step forward.

[1:49:40] Thank you.

[1:49:42] Our next speaker is Maggie Diaz, and she will be followed by Starling Hendrix.

[1:49:48] Good morning, Commission.

[1:49:50] My name is Maggie Diaz.

[1:49:52] I've lived on Sharward Drive, which is, I'm eight houses from the back parking lot of the hotel for about 30 years now and I've lived in the area since 77 and my first experience at the fairways was holding up there at $30 a night for two nights.

[1:50:13] Well, I studied for my masters away from my family and friends, so they've always been a good neighbor

[1:50:20] in my personal opinion. They give us neighborhood discounts. I know they've stepped in various staff members

[1:50:28] have stepped in to assist neighbors with a variety of issues, personal issues. They have long-term

[1:50:37] employees that we can have confidence in, and you don't find people leaving, they're well

[1:50:46] paid, they're treated with respect, it's great.

[1:50:50] The property itself shows respect for the neighborhood, they have added new fencing, with

[1:50:57] lighting, to make that turn easier around the side of the hotel, it's pretty, the landscaping

[1:51:07] beautiful. I had a baby shower there and there, because he bow in the center, that was too big

[1:51:15] for my house and it's just gorgeous and all of the guests who are all local commented on that.

[1:51:23] Maria even tried to come and check my house during in except the fact that when the water reached her

[1:51:30] here. She had to turn back and couldn't check.

[1:51:35] I think this project, when I look at some

[1:51:38] of the projects and call your county, and the growth that we have, this looks subtle to me,

[1:51:45] and it looks like it's in keeping with the neighborhood.

[1:51:51] I'm closing what I hate to think what

[1:51:54] it happened if the property is sold because if this property is sold, if maybe the owners

[1:52:04] are dissatisfied because they have no room for growth or for whatever reason, but we're

[1:52:12] looking at a 10-story monolith in front of our neighborhood and probably just a big old square

[1:52:20] block, nothing actually really beautiful, something really contemporary,

[1:52:28] and so, I-

[1:52:30] I think that's something that we, we, as a neighbor, would need to, you know, keep in our minds that by denying or, you know, not allowing this project, we may end up with a corporate sale.

[1:52:46] We may end up looking at a parking lot. I mean, I don't know. I'm I'm much happier with what's there

[1:52:54] and a small addition, which is a little stay within our neighborhood.

[1:52:59] aesthetic. Thank you.

[1:53:01] Thank you.

[1:53:03] Our next registered speaker is Starling Hendrix. Starling has someone seeding time to her. Eva Beckerman.

[1:53:10] If you could raise your hand for me, Eva.

[1:53:13] Thank you.

[1:53:15] Darling, you have six minutes.

[1:53:17] Thank you.

[1:53:18] Good morning.

[1:53:19] My name is Starling Hendrix.

[1:53:20] I've been a call your county resident for 25 years and a resident of Palmer River for since 2015 where my husband and I raised our children there.

[1:53:29] You're going to hear a lot today and I know the commission has already touched on some of the compliance issues at the hotel itself.

[1:53:37] as it relates to work on permitted work that was completed

[1:53:41] and fire code violations.

[1:53:44] But I do want to draw the commission's attention

[1:53:46] to a second part of this that maybe won't be focused

[1:53:49] on as much, but I think it's just as important.

[1:53:52] There's a home that is immediately to the north

[1:53:54] of the commercial property.

[1:53:57] It's 128 Palm View Drive.

[1:53:59] 128 Palm View Drive is the very first house

[1:54:02] behind the fairways in.

[1:54:04] And we'd be part of the demolition and rezoning

[1:54:07] of, as part of this application.

[1:54:11] This home was, has been owned, I believe,

[1:54:13] by the owner for a number of years by the applicant.

[1:54:16] And I was used as a rental property, the home burned

[1:54:22] in July of 2021 on July 4th of 2021.

[1:54:27] I believe there was a fireworks incident that caused

[1:54:31] fire in the home and the roof was burned significantly. There were significant smoke damage

[1:54:39] on the residents and it was deemed unable to be continued to be occupied. So in 2021, over five

[1:54:47] years ago, that event happened. The applicant subsequently applied for a permit in July,

[1:55:01] I'm sorry,

[1:55:01] that that was going on. There was an adjustment made to the AdValorum assessed a value of the home.

[1:55:12] That was dropped the assessed value of the home from $345,000 to $240,000.

[1:55:19] Over $100,000 less at that, around that same time.

[1:55:25] And all of this, of course, is a public record and the tax card indicates that the basis for that was because the home was going to be demolished.

[1:55:35] I can tell you right now, the home is still there.

[1:55:39] Subsequently, in 2022, the tax rules will show that the assessed ad Valorant Value of that home dropped to 241.

[1:55:45] And then, you know, obviously, everybody has sex increases in color counties, so, but the new basis for the increase was dramatically dropped in 2022.

[1:55:58] The point I'm trying to make is really about the resources that the county has, right?

[1:56:05] And the fact that Adlerum taxes are used to provide those resources to the residents of color county.

[1:56:11] They bring, they pay for our police department, they pay for our fire department, they pay for our county employees and they're important that everybody be contributing to that.

[1:56:25] After the permit was issued in January 2022, the permit was subsequently canceled in May of 2022.

[1:56:33] The cancellation record states, the owner has decided to remodel rather than demolish.

[1:56:42] The home has not been, the fire damage exists today, if you walk by that home today, there is still a hole in the roof.

[1:56:48] This was also a bone of contention with the planning commission.

[1:56:53] There has been no effort to remodel the residents, despite the representation by the owner, to do so in 2022.

[1:57:01] In the meantime, the owner has been paying less taxes into the call your county registry,

[1:57:09] and has, as you will hear from other neighbors, more demand on county resources.

[1:57:15] There have been over 100 calls, 9-1-1 calls to this location in the period of time since 2021 till today.

[1:57:25] There's no private security that's provided by the owner at this hotel, but instead he relies on the

[1:57:30] Collier County Sheriff's Office to provide his security at this property.

[1:57:35] And we all know that the money to pay for the Collier County Sheriff's Office comes from taxes.

[1:57:41] So my message here is really about what more drain on resources is going to be taking place when we expand this property.

[1:57:51] We're going to go from 46 rooms to 76 rooms.

[1:57:55] We're going to go from, I don't know, you know, 150 calls a year to 100 calls a year.

[1:58:01] I don't know what that looks like.

[1:58:04] But there has been zero effort by the owner to control his guests to control the situations

[1:58:13] over there, to there have been a number of various disturbing calls, and one of my colleagues

[1:58:19] will get into that a little bit further, but there's no regard for the impact that the business

[1:58:26] itself has on our county resources. And I think that's a really important point and I

[1:58:34] encourage the commissioners to consider that when they're considering expanding and putting

[1:58:39] more pressure on our services and more pressure on our resources in order to support a private

[1:58:44] Thank you.

[1:58:46] Thank you.

[1:58:47] Our next registered speaker is Ed Boeder. Ed has four additional speakers, seating time

[1:58:54] to him, and I will list them off a few could raise your hands. Jeff Krauss.

[1:59:00] Craig Hendricks.

[1:59:03] Missy Cohen.

[1:59:08] Chris Cohen.

[1:59:09] Yeah, the lift as well. Ed, that means you will have nine minutes, sir.

[1:59:16] Thank you. Good morning, commissioners. My name is Ed Bader. I have lived at 316

[1:59:20] Charlotte Drive just around the corner from the Fairways in and down the street for 25 years.

[1:59:27] I want to address the narratives made by the two studies, the feasibility

[1:59:31] staff reports issued by Davidson Engineering and Zonta, which is in your packet.

[1:59:36] Davidson, of course, you know, is a local engineering firm, but you're probably aware.

[1:59:40] Zonta, though, is a California-based firm, and there is no indication in their report.

[1:59:43] whatsoever the anyone from their firm actually visited the motel site. So while it's hard

[1:59:49] to understand how reliable any conclusions can be from them, the California base firm that

[1:59:54] has never visited the site. I'm going to address their report anyway. Starting with Davison,

[1:59:58] they say quote,

[2:00:00] In their report, the existing hotel maintains a good relationship with the neighborhood and is operated in a cleanly quiet manner, so it's not to call us any adverse impacts in quote.

[2:00:12] I'll direct your attention to the 129-page, Cire County Sheriff's Report,

[2:00:20] and shows that in the period from April of 2021 to 2025 there were 118 incidences that the fairways in involving the Sheriff's Department.

[2:00:29] That's almost two per month.

[2:00:32] The report also shows it in the third, three and a half months of 20, 26 up until the time

[2:00:37] of the original planning commission meeting.

[2:00:40] There were seven more instances again, two per month in that three and a half month period.

[2:00:45] Now, since the planning meeting in June, there were seven more calls to the sheriff's

[2:00:50] department up to this point.

[2:00:52] So basically, I know that no one said there'd be a math today, so let me give you the

[2:00:55] conclusion.

[2:00:56] And in the last five and a half years, there have been 132 calls made to the shares department

[2:01:01] from the Fairways in.

[2:01:04] 18 of those calls were medical emergencies.

[2:01:06] So eliminating those is legitimate, there were still 114 non-medical emergency calls to the

[2:01:12] shares department.

[2:01:13] So I don't know how you put a value on the words much beloved, how you quantify that.

[2:01:18] Since it's just a value judgment in an opinion.

[2:01:20] But the Sheriff's report pays a picture of a neighbor that doesn't operate in a quiet manner.

[2:01:27] I personally witnessed a fist fight by two intoxicated gentlemen in the back parking lot of the Motel several years ago,

[2:01:34] when I was out for a nice stroll in the evening in our residential neighborhood.

[2:01:39] Some of the calls to the Sheriff, if you look at the reporter, actually occupants who got locked out of their rooms after hours in the evening.

[2:01:46] The motel doesn't have an after-hours manned front desk, so people are forced to call the sheriff's department if they get locked out.

[2:01:54] That's not a good use of the sheriff's department.

[2:01:58] And why ask you this? Why did the Coyour County School Board remove the school bus stop across from the back entrance to the motel for safety reasons?

[2:02:10] But Davis says, quote, if this same quality of operation will be maintained in the proposed

[2:02:15] expansion and quote, how do they know that and it creates a quote unquote minimal impact

[2:02:22] to neighbors around two calls to the sheriff every month and you're proposing to increase

[2:02:27] the motel by 40%. That won't have more than a minimal impact to the neighbors.

[2:02:37] Davis

[2:02:37] surrounding residential land uses,

[2:02:41] and quote, how can a commercial motel be compatible

[2:02:44] with residential uses that surround the motel on three sides?

[2:02:49] They would sit in Zonta both point out

[2:02:51] that the single-family residential homes

[2:02:53] that would be adjacent to the motel expansion

[2:02:55] should they get approved are also owned by the motel owner

[2:02:59] and that as additional buffering to the residents.

[2:03:03] But houses can't be buffers,

[2:03:06] Not to a motel, regardless of who owns them, you don't buff for a motel, a house you buff for a motel with landscaping and privacy walls, that sort of thing.

[2:03:16] So Davidson also says those homes will be maintained as residential property.

[2:03:21] But again, how do they know that?

[2:03:23] Can they guarantee that?

[2:03:24] especially a four single-family homes are torn down for motel leaving that

[2:03:33] this leaves a press that sets a precedent for those adjacent motel

[2:03:36] on homes the remaining three that the owner owns to convert to a more motel in the future.

[2:03:41] It's a bad precedent. Zonta points out to quote numerous similar uses in the vicinity of the

[2:03:46] subject in quote. They are referring to two medical offices and a self-storage facility

[2:03:51] along Piper Boulevard at Cyprusway East,

[2:03:55] which is of course a frontied road facing a motley road.

[2:03:58] They say those properties highlight

[2:04:00] that the motel location should not be considered inappropriate.

[2:04:04] Those parcels are his own C1,

[2:04:07] as they are low-intensity uses versus a motel.

[2:04:11] And they are not adjacent to single family residential homes,

[2:04:15] but they're either they are a budding condominiums.

[2:04:18] Zonda references the home which Star mentioned at 128-pound river Paul Vue Drive that was

[2:04:25] damaged by fireworks on July 4th of 2021. They stayed at the mossy in that home for the

[2:04:30] motel expansion quote will be an improvement to the neighborhood in quote. Well the motel owner

[2:04:36] indicated they did not have adequate insurance on the home, so has sat damaged and vacant now

[2:04:40] for over five years. Even after a failure to fix and patch their damaged roof was mentioned

[2:04:46] by the planning board in June,

[2:04:49] still nothing has been done since then.

[2:04:52] Seems like the best improvement to the neighborhood

[2:04:53] would be to repair that home,

[2:04:55] or as a residential home,

[2:04:57] instead of tearing it down or replacing it with a motel.

[2:05:01] To further our claim that though fairways in

[2:05:03] is not a beloved motel,

[2:05:04] I would like to comment on the reports

[2:05:06] from the North-Color Fire Department,

[2:05:08] which you also have.

[2:05:10] And to the annual inspection by the fire department

[2:05:12] on August 20th of 2024, over two years ago,

[2:05:16] not one year ago, over two years ago.

[2:05:18] It was discovered that 22 of the 46 Motel Units had kitchenettes,

[2:05:24] not countertops, cooktops, okay?

[2:05:27] Cooktops that were installed without fire suppression systems,

[2:05:30] and obviously installed without obtaining proper permits,

[2:05:33] otherwise that would have included fire marshalling infections,

[2:05:36] which they didn't.

[2:05:37] It's unclear when those kitchenists are actually installed

[2:05:40] since no permit for them was issued,

[2:05:42] and they were not mentioned in any prior fire department

[2:05:44] inspection reports prior to August 20, of 2024. At the re-inspection of year later, August

[2:05:50] 14, 2025, the cook cops remained with no fire suppression systems or hoods while the owner

[2:05:57] was quote unquote researching options. A further meeting between the fire department and the

[2:06:02] owner occurred in November of last year and again in February of this year, we still was no approved

[2:06:08] plan and place. The most recent fire inspection report which I have given to the court report

[2:06:13] to gave to the owner as well, this force is not in your packet, but that was done last month

[2:06:19] in August.

[2:06:21] And the report highlighted this section of it.

[2:06:23] In any case, some of the stove tops now have been removed and replaced with oven-only units.

[2:06:30] And the rest ought to be replaced by this December, per negrate between the owner and the fire

[2:06:35] department.

[2:06:36] So it's been over two years, and some of the non-permitted, fire inspection violation

[2:06:41] and stovetops still remain.

[2:06:44] Talk about unpermanent permits,

[2:06:46] paddios with tables and umbrellas

[2:06:47] when stalled at the rear of the two-story motel building

[2:06:50] a few years ago, again with no evidence

[2:06:52] of any permits being pulled.

[2:06:55] I'm on the board of the Palm River Homeowners

[2:06:57] and Civic Association.

[2:07:00] The Palm River Homeowners and Civic Association

[2:07:02] serves the residents of Palm River estates

[2:07:05] where the fairway is in is located.

[2:07:07] It's a service and civic-minded organization.

[2:07:10] It's not a nature way, and do's are not mandatory.

[2:07:14] It maintains the civic association,

[2:07:16] it maintains the palm river, both our median,

[2:07:19] places U.S. flags around the entire community on July 4th,

[2:07:22] of each year, which perhaps you've seen or heard about.

[2:07:25] We are award scholarships to local resident high school seniors.

[2:07:29] We decorate the community.

[2:07:30] With lights in Garland for the holidays, including lights and on royal palm trees directly across the

[2:07:36] entrance to the motel. And we all petition local government on behalf of residents among other

[2:07:42] civic minded things. This is all done by unpaid volunteers and voluntary donations. A couple

[2:07:49] of years ago, the owner of the Fairways did ask the Civic Association to endorse the

[2:07:53] zoning plans and we declined.

[2:07:58] We have not paid any dues since the first quarter of 2024, maybe there's a correlation there.

[2:08:05] They also indicated a willingness to help defray some of the cost of the holiday decorations

[2:08:09] but no money has ever been received.

[2:08:11] LePly, of course, located in Palm River, pays dues every quarter, voluntarily.

[2:08:18] So, it's closing.

[2:08:18] I'd like to advise you to remind you that there are 559 signatures on a petition,

[2:08:24] and the people spoke and the people spoke and the people spoke and the commission voted unanimously six out of not to recommend that it's clearly wrong use for the wrong location and I ask you to deny their petition. Thank you.

[2:08:37] Mr. Chair, our final registered speaker joins us on Zoom.

[2:08:41] And, Lift Cactus.

[2:08:43] And you should be receiving a prompt to unmute yourself.

[2:08:47] I see you. Let me do yourself, Anne.

[2:08:50] Thank you so much. Good morning.

[2:08:52] and Lef Gakis, Pong River State's homeowner, mom to three, and business on our free businesses,

[2:08:59] including real fitness Naples, it's a fitness facility that sits at a monthly vote in airport

[2:09:03] and has been there for 17 years. My case against the project doesn't rest on opinion,

[2:09:10] but on many documented facts by the Collier County's data. First off, it lands on a single most congested

[2:09:16] corridor and will significantly contribute traffic to three of the top ten most

[2:09:21] dangerous intersections in the county. Further 2025 long-range transportation

[2:09:26] plan segment of a mock-ling from good-but-Frank to call your boulevard experiences

[2:09:30] 32 minutes at bottleneck conditions and that's roughly 45 percent longer than the

[2:09:35] second highest which is on-pengage. But most importantly, mock-ling road is

[2:09:40] identified as severe crash concentration by the Metropolitan Planning

[2:09:44] organization's 2025 major safety study. The Fairway and Skats will exit the project and immediately join

[2:09:51] an act capacity and extremely dangerous road segment in Naples. Secondly, there's no demonstrated

[2:09:56] market need. A growth management plan amendment changing the land use designation must demonstrate

[2:10:03] need. Downs in the central main research that counties contract to tourism research firm,

[2:10:08] Shears data that the occupation rate in July of 2025 was only 61% in July of 2026 was only 62.2%.

[2:10:17] So barely a 1.2% increase year over year. Adding almost 40% new hotel rooms to a market

[2:10:24] that has significantly increased in the hotel motel options with more lodging slated.

[2:10:30] A market that's not increasing dramatically in visitors, we're losing in our national demand

[2:10:35] And already absorbing new supply faster than the tourism is justified.

[2:10:39] It's not a project to public interest framework of the World Management Plan should accommodate.

[2:10:44] Instead, it's a project that responds to the applicant's interest and not the community need.

[2:10:49] Lastly, I want to draw attention to the dramatic changes within Plum River, the residential streets,

[2:10:54] as a traffic impact study conducted a couple of years back,

[2:10:57] doesn't factor in our third housing that will be completed by the end of this year.

[2:11:01] With the 41 housing units on the same street as the end, that impact study wouldn't be an

[2:11:06] accurate reflection of an inclusive likely 80 vehicles in the coming months.

[2:11:11] Those residents will generate daily trips to work, appointments, shopping, dining, and other

[2:11:15] activities through home-line residential streets.

[2:11:18] So we're not simply discussing traffic as it existed a few years back, but instead the cumulative

[2:11:23] impact of what is coming next.

[2:11:26] Commissioner McDonald has spoken about the government's responsibility to care for public

[2:11:30] safety.

[2:11:30] I thank you for your service and ask that you keep that responsibility at the forefront today.

[2:11:35] Since we already have many documented safety issues for the county as a whole, congestion, increased traffic coming,

[2:11:41] and the evidence of a public need for additional rooms is questionable.

[2:11:45] I respectfully ask that you do decline the petition as request.

[2:11:48] Thank you.

[2:11:49] Thank you.

[2:11:51] Those are final register speakers.

[2:11:53] Those are final register speakers.

[2:11:58] Thank you, Chairman.

[2:12:01] I have a few comments at the end, but before that, I think it's fair to just propose.

[2:12:07] It's up to the chairman's discretion, but when there's so many public speakers and I hope you took good notes,

[2:12:14] I'd like to hear from the applicant and hear your rebuttal.

[2:12:17] Here's a couple of things that I wrote down that I definitely would like to hear and you're, and obviously you can address anything.

[2:12:22] But the status of the burned out house, why it's taken so long,

[2:12:29] is any part of your plan addressing

[2:12:31] on street parking?

[2:12:32] Has a traffic study been done?

[2:12:34] Maybe that's something you left out of your presentation, because that was some big concerns

[2:12:37] of the citizens.

[2:12:39] Can you address the sheriff calls?

[2:12:41] And I'll preface it by saying, I bet if I lined up, you know, and I'm not taking a side here,

[2:12:47] but we see numbers like that for even some of the nicest hotels.

[2:12:51] But every issue is different, so, you know, if that's something that where you had concern,

[2:12:56] or hey, the majority of them were lockouts and we, we had fixed that or whatever, but I wanted to address that.

[2:13:02] The school bus removal, that's something that, I don't, maybe Commissioner Hall would have that information,

[2:13:07] but that's not something that would have been presented to us, so somebody says it was removed for safety.

[2:13:13] You know, that's a big statement, I'd like to know if that was true or not, if you were made aware of that.

[2:13:19] And then lastly, but I've already covered this, just they're in traffic flow adjustments,

[2:13:24] but we already talked about that.

[2:13:26] And that goes online with parking, you know, if this was approved, is that a big portion

[2:13:33] of your plan to make those adjustments, because we didn't hear anything about that.

[2:13:37] And then, you know, feel free anything that you heard, it's not a debate back and forth,

[2:13:41] but I think you have the right to be able to, you know, correct the record or give your honest

[2:13:46] assessment if that's, if that's okay with the chairman.

[2:13:49] Well that's typically what we do. We do elected petitioner go ahead and address anything

[2:13:53] they may have heard during public comment, typical how we usually handle these hearings.

[2:13:59] And I was going to give him the opportunity to do that if he chooses to, I just figure

[2:14:03] if you guys any of the questions prior to that.

[2:14:05] I do have a few questions, but it's going to be for staff after.

[2:14:10] Sir, you're more and welcome if you want to go ahead and address anything.

[2:14:12] Thank you very much.

[2:14:14] I'd like to address all those issues.

[2:14:22] I guess the simplest one is the burned out house.

[2:14:27] This is the burned out house.

[2:14:29] I took this picture.

[2:14:31] Ooh.

[2:14:36] Do as my adjective.

[2:14:49] It looks like any other house in Paul River.

[2:14:54] If you go by it, the lawn is maintained.

[2:14:56] Hey, hey.

[2:14:58] I'm serious.

[2:14:59] I'm serious.

[2:15:00] So when I say people, please, please, you had your chance. You had your time. Nobody interrupted you.

[2:15:09] I'll be civil. I don't think it's an isor. It looks like any other house. I did not actively go to

[2:15:16] how your county appraisal office and ask them to reduce the value because it's been burned out.

[2:15:22] A number of properties were reduced in value after Hurricane Ian hit.

[2:15:27] So that's the simplest one. As far as the bus stop being removed from the back of the

[2:15:32] motel, my underpass. Can I sort of request your report? Because you do have this photo up

[2:15:37] while you have it up. You see the left of the eve on the garage, the giant hole on the roof,

[2:15:43] you're referring to that damage to exist today. It does. That all does exist today and the house is not occupied.

[2:15:51] As far as the bus stop being eliminated my understanding is that the school children who used that bus stop moved on to higher level of grades and it was no longer necessary.

[2:16:04] there wasn't enough students to justify the bus stop being there. As far as lockouts and

[2:16:12] calling 911, there is a phone right at the our lobby closes at 8 o'clock. There's a phone

[2:16:19] outside and anybody who's locked out could call there are three employees who live

[2:16:26] either on site or on the homes next to the hotel and they will let the guests in.

[2:16:34] So that's not a use of county resources to get guests who have been locked out.

[2:16:44] As far as not being loved by the neighborhood, Mr. Bader stated that

[2:16:55] many neighbors would

[2:16:56] be glad if the fairways didn't expand, perhaps didn't even exist.

[2:17:00] This slide shows over the last five years the number of Paul River referrals where family and friends of people who live in Paul River have stayed based upon the referral of residents of the subdivision.

[2:17:18] And it's steady this year we're on record to have our strongest year.

[2:17:23] 2021 was right after Hurricaneine where there weren't many options and people wanted to be

[2:17:29] close to loved ones in the neighborhood, but this shows tremendous support what we're not

[2:17:35] hearing from today. As far as not contributing to the subdivision, for 27 years we voluntarily

[2:17:43] paid dues on 13 lots, 6 for the motel, and the 7 homes next to it. In 2026,

[2:17:54] the invoice

[2:17:55] was the recommendation was not mailed out, and we missed paying the dues on the 13 lots.

[2:18:03] But for 27 years, we paid them on 13 lots. If we hone the 13 homes, if it was 8 during

[2:18:10] at time we paid on eight. So we have contributed to the subdivision.

[2:18:18] And I guess the biggest

[2:18:19] issue is right here. This is a letter from chief lens from the fire district of North

[2:18:27] Collier, Fire Control and Rescue District. And if I can just read a little of it, the

[2:18:34] part that's highlighted says throughout this process, the property owner has cooperated

[2:18:40] with a fire district and has provided assistance in researching and locating historical documents

[2:18:47] associated with the property. In particular, older plans for both the two story and the one

[2:18:54] story buildings were located and provided for review. These plans demonstrated that the kitchen areas

[2:19:02] associated with cooking facilities existed as part of the building conditions since the time

[2:19:09] of construction.

[2:19:11] The property owners proceeding with the agreed upon corrective measures in accordance with

[2:19:16] this schedule established through discussions with a fire district.

[2:19:22] At this time, the remaining cooking appliance conversions are scheduled to be completed

[2:19:27] by the end of calendar year 2026, unless completed earlier.

[2:19:32] North Calier Fire District appreciates the cooperation demonstrated by the property owner

[2:19:38] throughout this process. That is written by chief lens, and it's a foretraced, a slightly

[2:19:45] different perspective of what was portrayed by the neighbors who want to create their own narrative.

[2:19:54] Commissioner of LaCosta was there anything else that you had in your notes?

[2:19:59] Yes sir. Thank you very much. I did have a four minute concluding remark, but I don't know if you

[2:20:30] here's just other pictures quickly of the fairways as it looks now.

[2:20:38] Okay. As I was growing

[2:20:39] up and into my adult life, my father taught me a simple rule. Live your life defensively.

[2:20:47] If there is a line you should not cross, don't even get close to it. He meant that rule to apply

[2:20:54] to both my personal conduct and my business. For the past 28 years that principle has guided the way,

[2:21:01] I've operated the fairways in.

[2:21:05] More than a quarter, for more than a quarter of a century,

[2:21:07] code enforcement issues that the fairways were virtually non-existent.

[2:21:13] And when an issue did arise, we addressed it and corrected it.

[2:21:18] Our businesses thrive that we've been fortunate to have the support

[2:21:21] of the surrounding community, despite what others said,

[2:21:25] which is measured by the Palm River referrals.

[2:21:29] Then, over the past year, we experienced a sudden increase in code-related scrutiny.

[2:21:36] It's fair to ask what changed.

[2:21:39] Our philosophy did not change.

[2:21:42] Our operations did not change.

[2:21:45] In fact, we continue to improve and invest in the property both physically and operationally.

[2:21:51] What changed was a level of scrutiny surrounding the property, along with the circulation

[2:21:57] of allegation that many cases have been unfounded or inaccurate.

[2:22:03] That scrutiny began after I requested permission to replace four contiguous homes that

[2:22:08] I've owned for more than 20 years on average with 30 additional hotel rooms.

[2:22:15] I understand that some people have concerns with that request, and I respect the right

[2:22:21] to express those concerns.

[2:22:23] But I also believe it is important that decisions about this property be based on facts.

[2:22:30] Not assumptions or allegations. When a legitimate issue has been brought to our attention, we have done what we have always done, address it and correct it.

[2:22:42] For more than three decades, the fairways has continued to evolve into a property with comfortable accommodations, lush gardens, and a special old Florida character that are guests value.

[2:22:56] You don't have to take my word for it.

[2:22:59] Are exceptionally high employee retention and very strong gas rankings demonstrates that

[2:23:06] we are doing many things right.

[2:23:09] Today, I'm asking for the opportunity to responsibly and modestly expand this long-standing

[2:23:16] collier county business while preserving the character that has made the fairways in

[2:23:21] part of this community for 60 years.

[2:23:25] We've continually reinvested into the property, we've maintained it, upgraded it, and adapted

[2:23:31] it to meet the needs of our guests and our employees.

[2:23:35] Today's request is simply the next step in that long-standing approach.

[2:23:41] Commissioners, I understand that the concerns being raised here place you in a difficult

[2:23:47] position, and I want to assure you that I will approach this next phase of the fairways

[2:23:53] development in exactly the same way I've approached it in the past 28 years, ethically,

[2:24:00] responsibly, and with care and respect for the property and the community of which it is

[2:24:05] apart. And as I have always done, I will operate and full compliance with rules and regulations

[2:24:12] that apply to this property. Again, you don't have to take my word for that. All you have

[2:24:18] to do is look at how I've managed the fair ways in for the past three decades.

[2:24:24] For all of these reasons, I respectfully ask that you approve a rezoning request and

[2:24:30] allow us to move forward with creating 30 additional rooms.

[2:24:35] Thank you for your time and consideration, and I'd be happy to answer any questions.

[2:24:40] I get forget to address the 911 calls.

[2:24:44] I'm sorry about that.

[2:24:46] Three things.

[2:24:47] We do have an elderly clientele.

[2:24:51] A number of the calls, most recently,

[2:24:54] were kids knocking on the doors

[2:24:57] of the guests at night

[2:24:59] and running away.

[2:25:01] They had been identified

[2:25:02] and the police have talked to the family

[2:25:08] and it has stopped.

[2:25:09] And the third thing has been mentioned here before, there are 1,500 units, and Paul

[2:25:15] Mrever.

[2:25:16] We are at the intersection of the major exiting point and entrance to a mockery road.

[2:25:24] If there's an accident at that intersection, our address is geolocated to that, and it shows

[2:25:30] up as a 911 for fair ways in. It is not an area that has unusual issues, and that's all I

[2:25:44] had to say, and if you had any questions, I'd be glad to answer them.

[2:25:47] Mr. Hall, is there any other questions for you?

[2:25:52] I don't have any questions for you, Steve. Thank you.

[2:25:55] Thank you.

[2:25:58] I do want to address one of my thoughts about why does the staff recommendation differ from planning commission.

[2:26:08] Staff's perspective usually comes with is the project possible.

[2:26:15] Is it possible to, you know, can, is it make sense?

[2:26:18] Possibility wise. That's why we get the recommendation.

[2:26:21] Planning Commission takes some other things in the consideration, as well as we take totally different things in the consideration.

[2:26:29] You know, it's not, this project, it's well thought out.

[2:26:33] It's pretty, you know, it's not whether, you know, it's an eye sore or not with me.

[2:26:40] It's a fundamental, should we reason or should we not?

[2:26:44] This is not emotional for me.

[2:26:46] I'm not mad because he's asking, and I'm not impressed because they have a great fairway

[2:26:52] family and the way that they operate.

[2:26:54] I'm not, I don't even care about that.

[2:26:57] It's not that I don't care, that doesn't weigh in my decision.

[2:27:01] It's just a fundamental thing with me should we reason and put commercial property in the

[2:27:08] residential area or should we not?

[2:27:14] I'm not comparing this petition with anything else that we've done, we may have made some good decisions in the past, we may have made some bad decisions in the past, that doesn't matter with this petition.

[2:27:27] I'm looking at this petition as a stand-alone petition.

[2:27:32] The, the owner has every legal right as Commissioner LaCastro said he has every legal right to ask for this petition.

[2:27:42] But we are under no legal obligation to obligate everybody can ask whether we say yes or whether we say no that's our decision.

[2:27:52] So with that, I'm going to stick with my guns, I've listened to the people.

[2:27:55] I've had numerous conversations, I've had numerous emails.

[2:28:00] They don't want to see the commercial pushed into their residential area.

[2:28:06] The owner has every right to operate his business as it stands.

[2:28:11] He's done a great job.

[2:28:13] I love the way every picture looks.

[2:28:15] I love the way it's managed.

[2:28:16] I love your passion.

[2:28:18] I love all of that.

[2:28:19] And you've done a great job as you stand.

[2:28:22] So I'm going to stick with that. I'm going to make the motion as the commissioner in the district and listening to the people to deny the petition.

[2:28:32] And there again, it's not an emotional decision from me. It's just a fundamental decision.

[2:28:37] And I hope the others will join me.

[2:28:41] If two other commissioners want to make comments.

[2:28:45] Do you want to make the motion?

[2:28:47] I made the motion to deny the petition.

[2:28:49] Okay. All right. Have a motion to deny the petition. Do we have a second?

[2:28:57] I think Mr. Chairman. Go ahead.

[2:29:00] Just as a matter of proceed here. Can we listen to all the other commissioners?

[2:29:05] That's what I was trying to get to see if you want to hold his vote.

[2:29:07] I'll be motion. I'll withdraw it till we get going.

[2:29:10] Okay. Let's just go ahead and do that.

[2:29:12] Commissioner Lacaster.

[2:29:13] Thank you, Chairman.

[2:29:16] I'm weighing things, you know, as we all do, a little bit different perspective.

[2:29:19] I think it does matter the reputation of the owner.

[2:29:22] We've had people come in here that we're not good stewards of their property, whether they're

[2:29:28] for 30 years or three years.

[2:29:30] I think it does matter, and it's not in your particular case, but who the developer is, sometimes

[2:29:36] we have a developer, it has no track record and those ways.

[2:29:39] For me, maybe I have a bigger aperture and I'm not saying one side's right or wrong, but I take

[2:29:45] everything at a consideration. I think it's a bigger muscle movement. If let's say it was

[2:29:50] its own residential and had no commercial on it, and you're looking to a boy swinging the

[2:29:55] pranks along the other way. You have commercial on it. You're just looking to expand.

[2:30:00] So I'm not saying it makes it right. I'm an automatic vote or anything, but there is a difference between the two. And I do look at things that we do in the past, because even though we take each, I hope we take each case individually, we also do look at precedent.

[2:30:16] And sometimes we vote or don't vote for something, usually don't vote for something, because we're worried that there's very similar things that could come to us.

[2:30:25] And even though we take everything separately,

[2:30:28] that next person's going to come in and go,

[2:30:30] well, you did it for the hotel access or whatever.

[2:30:34] This one's a bit different.

[2:30:36] Sometimes when we see black and white cases,

[2:30:38] that's where at least I look at the precedent.

[2:30:40] Somebody wants a bigger park and a lot of storage in it.

[2:30:42] It's like, OK, we're going to see a fair amount of those.

[2:30:45] This is a commercial area.

[2:30:48] And here's the things that I'm weighing.

[2:30:49] And maybe the comments of my colleagues will help me.

[2:30:53] got to get a better perspective. I certainly always have the greatest respect for the commissioner

[2:30:59] who's over that district, but then also too, I'm a separate vote. And I'm not a big guy on

[2:31:05] popularity contest. You know, hey, none of the citizens want it. Well, a lot of times none of the

[2:31:09] citizens want anything. You know, they want everything to be a dog park, and they don't want it,

[2:31:14] you know, but when they're, when they're land was zone agriculture 25 years ago,

[2:31:19] and somebody was in here trying to get a rezoned to residential, it was approved, and then

[2:31:24] all their beautiful homes were built, and they love living in paradise, that's different.

[2:31:29] Then they're happy all that happened previously, or when people say, you know, you're turning

[2:31:35] this place to Miami, you've got to put a big lock on the gate, well, you know what, before

[2:31:38] a lot of us moved here, the people that were already here, they didn't want any of us here either.

[2:31:43] So, you know, you've got to, you have to sort of weigh, and I think even your employees

[2:31:48] saying like what kind of boss you are and everything, I'm not saying that that makes this an

[2:31:51] automatic yes but you know we don't always hear that either so you know are you going to

[2:31:56] be somebody that is responsible if this was past I have no doubt but also too we don't just

[2:32:02] rub or snap these things but you know in closing I would just say these are the things I'm

[2:32:07] weighing right now there's a difference between just expansion and upgrade there's a difference

[2:32:14] between just changing something and improving something.

[2:32:18] And you have a beautiful place, but in some areas it's pretty dated and it looks like

[2:32:23] you have a plan to upgrade it.

[2:32:26] One of the things I sort of cautioned citizens at times, and this is maybe more of a generic

[2:32:30] statement, but when they sort of hate something, in Commissioner McDaniel, I was mentioned

[2:32:34] this several times and was always right, you might hate it, but it might be way better

[2:32:42] than what could come down the road so be careful what you wish for because then there could be

[2:32:49] something especially with live local and how a lot of rules change where you won't have

[2:32:53] a big conversation in here. There'll be things possibly that might come that will automatically

[2:33:01] be permitted. Now having said that, that's a bit hypothetical. So I won't sit here and just say,

[2:33:06] hey, we're going to shove this down your throat because there's a slight possibility that a giant

[2:33:11] Mary could get this property in a few years and it won't be a big debate if certain rules

[2:33:17] and things change, but I look at it as I like the upgrade, I like the improvement,

[2:33:23] I'm concerned about the parking.

[2:33:25] If this was approved that hasn't been part of your plan, no, just wait, and you can, you know,

[2:33:33] your reply can always be like it'd make it part of it, but you know, that part really resonated

[2:33:37] with me with residents, you know, that parking on the street and things like that. I'm not saying

[2:33:42] it's a ginormous show stopper. It's not like you have a motel with 1,100 rooms, but it does

[2:33:48] matter, you're in a residential area. You know, one thing I would say about the house, I know,

[2:33:54] as soon as the picture went up, we heard all the moans. One of the things I tell citizens is you

[2:33:59] can come with pictures too. So if you happen to show a photo, that may be hid all the damage

[2:34:04] that and that's why they were upset, you know, any one of the 17 speakers could have thrown

[2:34:09] up slides and said, this is what I have to look up every day and I don't have a crystal

[2:34:12] ball.

[2:34:13] So, you know, Commissioner Hallsman out there, I'd love to know if that picture really did

[2:34:17] represent what happened and I know in my district, I still have, I'll take a look at that.

[2:34:24] I still have homes that were destroyed by Irma, even before I was a her, before I was

[2:34:32] Commissioner got her still sitting there, you know, so I mean, I have a little bit of a

[2:34:37] understanding of that, but, you know, and, you know, Commissioner McDonough, I was

[2:34:43] as a great way of sort of summing up things, but so I wanted to sort of set the table and say,

[2:34:47] I'm weighing expansion versus upgrade change versus improvement, and if we lean towards

[2:34:53] this project, would you be the person that would do it in a way that was an extremely

[2:34:59] responsible way, and would you walk out of here taking the inputs from the citizens about

[2:35:04] what they are concerned about and try to lessen that concern.

[2:35:07] But then also, you know, the big 800-pound URL in the room is making a change to the growth

[2:35:13] management plan is a big major muscle movement that we don't take lightly.

[2:35:17] I can say this isn't the biggest change we have ever heard about the growth management plan,

[2:35:22] but it does come into play.

[2:35:24] So if it was something that I didn't support, even if all those other things are true about

[2:35:30] improvement and making the community better and upgrading this entire facility, does

[2:35:38] it out way swing in the pendulum in the growth management plan to give you approval.

[2:35:46] But you know, you already have commercial on it and a lot of times what we see when somebody

[2:35:49] for a change in zoning is it is a complete zoning change. And those are big muscle movements.

[2:35:57] I look at this one being a little bit more in the middle. So I'm a little bit, you know, I'm struggling

[2:36:01] on this one because I, you know, I like, you know, property owners have rights. I like to see

[2:36:06] projects come to us that are going to be upgrades, improvements, modernize, something.

[2:36:13] I don't see you exponentially expanding this, but it has a couple of loose ends in parking and

[2:36:17] of the other things but that could just vote could be delayed and it could say bring us a better

[2:36:23] better proposal. You don't have to spend a whole lot of money to create a couple more powerpoint

[2:36:27] slides and maybe have a meeting with the citizens and say what would I have to do for you to hate

[2:36:33] this less? But I can say this isn't something that came before me that I hate across the board

[2:36:39] no matter what you do. There's a few loose ends and I do like some of the improvements that

[2:36:46] you would be making across the board of this.

[2:36:47] So before we kind of poop without a way,

[2:36:50] you know, we probably want to be really careful

[2:36:52] as a commission up here, because this is a one,

[2:36:57] one-time thing, but I'll turn it over to Commissioner McDaniel.

[2:37:01] I just want to lay my head at it.

[2:37:02] I wasn't.

[2:37:02] Oh yeah, I wanted to.

[2:37:03] Is that the pick with this roof looks like now?

[2:37:07] Does it an aerial picture?

[2:37:12] OK, so I'm just going to share it with the colleague that was there.

[2:37:16] All right, so you said, yes, that's what it looks like still

[2:37:18] So that had an idea of what it was at the worst time.

[2:37:25] Mr. McDaniel.

[2:37:26] Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[2:37:27] You know what I heard out of all that?

[2:37:30] Disretation? Commissioner McDaniel is always right.

[2:37:36] It's a matter of public records.

[2:37:38] Terry strike that for the record. I did not say that.

[2:37:42] I think he did. First of all, Stevie did a good job on a presentation.

[2:37:48] I have no argument that you've done your best to run a business and a residential neighborhood.

[2:37:54] I have run businesses and close proximity.

[2:37:59] You want a little fun, permut yourself, a fill pit sometime and run mining operation

[2:38:04] and residential neighborhood.

[2:38:07] I have concerns about your request in all candor.

[2:38:12] I'm inclined to not support your request.

[2:38:16] My question for the county attorney and I want to disclare if I, the RT zoning that's

[2:38:23] front. Does it currently qualify for live local? Yes. Yes. If we were to expand the request to

[2:38:32] the four acres plus minus the entire four acres would then qualify for live local. Yes. And for

[2:38:37] those who don't know live local is a very disappointing law that was put upon us by the

[2:38:46] legislature some time ago, but allows for housing affordability at a very, very high

[2:38:53] density with a little to no communication, participation or discussion with the neighborhood.

[2:39:01] And that is, I'm very much, and anybody who knows me, I've been an advocate for and

[2:39:08] will continue to fight for your property rights.

[2:39:11] Your property rights on your commercial property that you have are sacred, expanding those

[2:39:19] with those additional residences. I can't live for. I want to caution the neighborhood.

[2:39:30] You heard at the beginning of this, I asked the question of our staff, what are the height limitations.

[2:39:35] He does have the right to go to 100 feet on that acre and a half up front.

[2:39:42] He can do that with little to no communication with the neighborhood whatsoever.

[2:39:46] If he chooses to do that, I will defend those rights that he's asking for just as adamantly

[2:39:54] as I am suggesting that expanding those commercial rights are not appropriate in this particular location.

[2:40:07] Mr. Sauder.

[2:40:07] Thank you.

[2:40:08] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[2:40:09] The live local issue, Commissioner Kang, I think is an important one.

[2:40:14] There are a couple points that I was kind of happy to hear come from the county commission.

[2:40:22] The issue, Commissioner Hall, of amending the comp plan, especially in the residential

[2:40:28] area, I understand that you have some reluctance to doing that.

[2:40:33] I've kind of raised that issue myself in the past, some of the comp plan changes we've made

[2:40:41] on a mockery road and on the beach road.

[2:40:44] So I think that we're sending a message, I think,

[2:40:48] to the development world that a many in the comp plan

[2:40:53] is something that we take very seriously

[2:40:55] because people buy their homes and they rely on the comp plan.

[2:40:59] And we've made a lot of changes to that.

[2:41:02] And we can certainly go back and perhaps justify that.

[2:41:04] But going forward, I think we have to be careful

[2:41:06] in a many in the comp plan because it does impact people

[2:41:10] that are already living here.

[2:41:13] In terms of the, if we expanded this and included the four acres

[2:41:20] into a commercial planning and development,

[2:41:24] live local would be one option.

[2:41:26] But this question for the county attorney.

[2:41:29] Under the document that they prepared,

[2:41:31] whether things could, could a subsequent owner

[2:41:33] do with those four acres, you know,

[2:41:37] it's a relatively old building,

[2:41:38] perhaps it gets torn down at some point in time.

[2:41:40] I could put up another hotel there if you wanted to.

[2:41:43] Now, if you had a four-acre hotel, how big could that be?

[2:41:47] You've had this, Mr. Bozzy. You've got some specifics.

[2:41:49] I realized that that, you know, this parking issue is in any parking issues.

[2:41:53] Four acres.

[2:41:54] Four acres is a fairly good size parcel.

[2:41:59] And I will ask Mr. Bozzy that question, because we may have a wonderful owner right now

[2:42:05] with a small hotel, and he's looking at having 76 units, but Mr. Bozy, just theoretically,

[2:42:13] someone comes in with a four-acre parcel that's his own appropriately for a hotel, and

[2:42:20] the whole four acres is upland, so we're not talking about the, you know, preserve areas.

[2:42:27] That's really, but theoretically, how many hotel units could you build on that?

[2:42:32] And I know it depends on the size of the units and parking, but just I'm trying to find

[2:42:36] park here. Mike Bozzi played in zoning director, a rough estimate, I mean, because you have

[2:42:42] water management, you have buffering it, parking, you have, there's a lot of different space

[2:42:48] seders that are required for it. But 100 feet with the ability to have understory parking,

[2:42:56] you could double or triple the number of hotel units that could possibly get there.

[2:43:01] So, the point I'm making is we have an owner operator right now that has an existing

[2:43:05] facility. Once they run it, maybe he would run it for another 10 or 15 or 20 years. On the

[2:43:13] other hand, maybe he would sell it to a hotel operator that would like to put a 200-room

[2:43:18] hotel there. And that's the potential that we're facing. So we've got to be very careful.

[2:43:23] We have a petition here that wants to do a specific thing, but we're opening up the door,

[2:43:28] opening the door for something that could be substantially more down the road. And that's

[2:43:34] I want to hear from all the commissioners before we go to.

[2:43:36] I support your motion.

[2:43:38] I'm concerned about, and that would be nine B.

[2:43:41] We'd have to make, right?

[2:43:42] It's not a sense of motion on both.

[2:43:43] We're just going to make a motion for nine B,

[2:43:45] because that would be the one that really matters.

[2:43:49] Yeah, if we see CPUD.

[2:43:52] So anyway, that's why, that's the point I want to make that.

[2:43:56] We've got to be very careful when we have a petition

[2:43:58] in front of us for a discrete project.

[2:44:01] It may be opening a door for something else.

[2:44:04] If you're going to deny this, if you're going to deny this, you need to state the reasons

[2:44:10] why.

[2:44:13] Mr. Buzz, I'm sorry.

[2:44:14] Just additional commentary.

[2:44:18] The denial of the growth management plan would extinguish the opportunity for the rezoning

[2:44:24] to even be approved, because the growth management plan is needed for the rezoning request.

[2:44:30] So nine A, I believe, is the growth management plan petitioned.

[2:44:36] So I would focus to if it is going to be a recommendation of denial, it would be a recommendation

[2:44:41] denial against nine A.

[2:44:43] And then we don't even get tonight being done matter.

[2:44:45] I thought it was the other way around.

[2:44:46] I thought.

[2:44:47] No, it's the zoning is dependent upon the growth management plan.

[2:44:53] Authorized.

[2:44:53] I'm asking you.

[2:44:54] Yes.

[2:44:55] All right.

[2:44:56] Okay.

[2:44:57] Thank you very much.

[2:45:01] Let me just add one idea here and see if it has any traction with my peers here. Before we get a formal second of the motion and we vote, one thing that is different here is this is much different than some of the big things that we've had to weigh like a great wolf lodge or some of the other things. Even though you had some community, neighbors, that everything that they said has merit, I don't.

[2:45:29] I don't, um, I don't feel like this huge animosity. We have some people that come here with pitch

[2:45:34] forks and lit torches. They storm the building. You're the worst person in the world, blah, blah, blah.

[2:45:40] I didn't hear that. You know, you know, you had a few people that are upset. And, and they have a

[2:45:43] very right to, you know, give their, um, their stance. And I don't like kicking the can on a vote,

[2:45:49] especially when we sort of have heard most everything. But there are some loose ends here. And I think

[2:45:54] you do have a relationship with the community that if you had a town hall meeting, these people would

[2:45:59] The people would come that, that, that, that hate it and don't want it and you'd hear from them even stronger than they'd have more than three minutes, you know, if you had a discussion, but you know, there's been more than a couple of times where we have said we've delayed the vote not because we couldn't come to a, to a quick decision here, but we wanted to give every opportunity to feel, I want, at least me to feel good about my vote. So one of the things that I would propose and it was early on where one of the commissioners here said, maybe we'd delay this, you work on the fire department things.

[2:46:29] you know, you do all that.

[2:46:30] What I don't like about that is you

[2:46:32] expending funds and then coming back here

[2:46:34] and thinking that gives you an edge.

[2:46:36] But you certainly could meet with the fire department,

[2:46:39] go through the list of things.

[2:46:40] You know, slides don't cost any money.

[2:46:42] You could cost out the things.

[2:46:44] And then you could come, if I'm thinking hypothetically,

[2:46:47] you came back here and said,

[2:46:48] this is what the fire chief said.

[2:46:50] I would need to do the total of all of that

[2:46:54] is extra number of dollars.

[2:46:55] I've got that money on the bank.

[2:46:57] and I can pull the trigger on it instantaneously.

[2:46:59] So that piece would be off the table.

[2:47:01] I met with the citizens,

[2:47:03] which came up with the traffic plan.

[2:47:05] You know, use some of our county resources to come up.

[2:47:08] I'm not saying we would still approve it,

[2:47:10] but it would come back here, I think,

[2:47:11] packaged a lot better, and also too,

[2:47:15] maybe with some of the neighbors I've heard about the live local.

[2:47:19] We don't say that to scare folks off,

[2:47:21] but be careful what you wish for.

[2:47:23] Everything that was just said by Mr. Bozy

[2:47:25] is very factual with some of the things

[2:47:27] that are coming down from Tallahassee,

[2:47:29] that is Commissioner McDonough said,

[2:47:30] we weren't happy with.

[2:47:32] Some counties live local, according to the legislatures

[2:47:35] up in Tallahassee, they think it's a great thing.

[2:47:38] We don't, we want to maintain control here

[2:47:40] and be able to control our destiny and not have somebody,

[2:47:45] just automatically be able to do something

[2:47:47] and not have this form here.

[2:47:49] But I think there's merit,

[2:47:50] we'll see if there's an appetite up here for it

[2:47:53] with my colleagues to say,

[2:47:54] Maybe we delay this vote.

[2:47:56] Let's see how good I'm speaking hypothetically.

[2:47:59] How great of an owner you are to host something in the community, to do a little bit more homework,

[2:48:05] to hear from the fire department, to maybe work on the burned out house and not to say that you have to tear it down,

[2:48:10] but have a plan to maybe address it.

[2:48:12] You know, some of the citizens certainly made it sound like an ice-sorb of the picture I saw here,

[2:48:16] just had a little fire in the back, so I could say there's worse things in my district that I wish I could order to be torn down.

[2:48:24] but I can't.

[2:48:26] We just have to make sure that they're safe.

[2:48:28] But I think there might be merit in that.

[2:48:30] And if my colleagues think, and this isn't,

[2:48:34] I'd like to just hear their comments

[2:48:35] where we would just say, you'll even hear

[2:48:38] with a lot of homework assignments.

[2:48:39] And so are the citizens.

[2:48:42] Maybe there'd be merit and coming back.

[2:48:43] And then that meeting would be way shorter.

[2:48:45] We wouldn't start from scratch.

[2:48:47] We know the hotel.

[2:48:48] We've seen the things.

[2:48:49] But you could fill in the blanks.

[2:48:51] And then to be fair to a property owner

[2:48:53] give them the full potential to be able to make their pitch and then if it dies it's like

[2:49:00] hey we did everything possible you know you walk out of here and go you know what I feel like

[2:49:06] I got a fair shake I think that might be something to consider it would be something that I would

[2:49:10] support because I think you would come back and it still might get voted down but I think we would

[2:49:16] have a lot more and because you can tell this is a unique you know community even with the

[2:49:22] people that are upset. There's some cases that come to us before I see that would be the worst

[2:49:28] idea in the world because it would be chaos, chaotic. But I think in this community you could

[2:49:36] have a, you know, a mature and professional conversation and bring us back something that we

[2:49:41] could, we could look at all the aspects of it and sort of pick up where we left off and then see

[2:49:48] with a potential, what came out of that meeting?

[2:49:51] Just an idea.

[2:49:52] So I'm not making a motion floating at sea

[2:49:54] if I got any appetite up here to give this a little bit

[2:49:58] of a deeper dive before we make a final decision,

[2:50:01] just because, you know, we think it would be too big

[2:50:06] of a muscle movement with the growth management plan.

[2:50:08] We change the GMP multiple times, but just an idea.

[2:50:13] Sir, sir, please.

[2:50:17] Sir, please, I see Commissioner Hall is a little up and I think we're going around and around again here.

[2:50:24] I just, I do have two points I want to ask staff real quick of Mr. Bozzy and Mr. French.

[2:50:31] I think certainly something was unclear and there was one of the comments that one of the female speakers made that was stuck out and I made a note.

[2:50:39] And it was reference to once the properties combined, that because he has, because the old part is basically historical, it's under historical type, I believe, but tourist residential tourist zoning, and then he has the off street parking.

[2:50:59] I know he's on the other side of Piper, he has parking on the median across the street from the hotel, which is like on the other side of the street, the main road runs through the parallels, the mockery, then he has the parking along the side street on the, I guess it'd be the north, the east side of the hotel itself.

[2:51:22] She, something stuck out in my head when she made a comment.

[2:51:25] Would that now change, and he couldn't use those parking swans?

[2:51:30] Because nobody's really talked about it.

[2:51:31] Would that change those counts?

[2:51:33] No, there's a provision within the PUD that says,

[2:51:36] only if they re-model tract A, do a full scale renovation,

[2:51:41] then the parking, the ensuite parking would go away.

[2:51:44] So, no, just a reason to commercial PUD would not

[2:51:50] would not invalidate the utilization.

[2:51:52] You do exist in the off-street parking, okay?

[2:51:55] And it wouldn't be, and he couldn't use those

[2:51:57] the count towards the spaces in the new part.

[2:52:01] No, no, no.

[2:52:01] Okay, so he can't use his part of total the new-

[2:52:03] There's another provision that the Planning Commission had added

[2:52:06] if there would be that said that the parking for B has to be provided

[2:52:10] for on track B.

[2:52:14] And the other question, Mr. French,

[2:52:16] because there was mention of some code case violations.

[2:52:21] Do you know if those ever resolved,

[2:52:23] there's a stop standing fines or there's still any hearings pending on this?

[2:52:29] So I...

[2:52:30] I can highlight the, and again, Jamie French for the record, Terry. I'm your department head for

[2:52:37] growth management community development.

[2:52:42] So on the hotel property, this is more so about building

[2:52:47] them into this fire. So there are active permanent applications that are incomplete. They were applied

[2:52:54] for on September 15th.

[2:52:57] So likely, and because there's no NFIP request,

[2:53:01] I also serve as the county's floodplain administrator,

[2:53:04] we recognize that there was a great deal

[2:53:06] of flooding in this area.

[2:53:07] I cannot say whether or not these units flooded,

[2:53:11] but there was remodeling that occurred.

[2:53:14] That does require this is a commercial structure,

[2:53:17] and so it's subject to the Florida Building Code.

[2:53:19] Now, if the fire component is important,

[2:53:21] Now, fire marsal lents, he is a plan reviewer and an inspector.

[2:53:27] He has a part in the building permit.

[2:53:30] But there are no active permits issued on this site.

[2:53:34] All of the units have been named and there is an ongoing code case.

[2:53:38] That code case would follow that judicial process, the special magistrate should the owner

[2:53:43] not comply with the Florida building code working with your building official.

[2:53:46] So with regards to the House, there's a long history of this house, there was indeed a fire.

[2:53:52] It appears that looks like in 2022, there was a permit that was applied for for demolition.

[2:54:01] That permit was subsequently canceled by the contractor honk construction.

[2:54:05] And a refund was issued for permits or for reviews or inspections that were not done.

[2:54:12] That would demonstrate that purposely that contractor backed out of that contract and according

[2:54:18] to Google Earth when you go through and you search the aerial street view imagery over

[2:54:22] the years.

[2:54:23] You can see windovers are placed, new paint, you can see softlets were replaced on the outside.

[2:54:29] So clearly there was work done.

[2:54:31] Now if there was an owner occupant, there may be, but this is not, there's no provisions.

[2:54:37] He would have to have a license contractor.

[2:54:39] So we have a property maintenance complaint on this property as well as a code case on this property as well.

[2:54:46] So there's history here and unfortunately it is going to require permits to include likely some demolition as well as the upgrades to the units to the hotel units that the property owners responsible for

[2:55:00] walking those all the way through the process that's here to the state law.

[2:55:04] Thank you Mr.

[2:55:05] I'm assuming Commissioner Hall is lit up in theax and assuming he's probably going

[2:55:08] to make his motion again and I believe Mr. Saunders was going to second it.

[2:55:13] Commissioner McDaniel is there anything you want to ask?

[2:55:17] Okay.

[2:55:19] I'm not.

[2:55:20] Thank you for asking, but I don't have a flavor for continuing the item I'm not inclined

[2:55:26] to support there.

[2:55:29] All right.

[2:55:29] Commissioner Hall.

[2:55:31] Thank you.

[2:55:31] Did you want to say something?

[2:55:33] I just want to ask a question.

[2:55:34] I know this is going to be a motion and it's going to be to deny the cop plan amendment

[2:55:38] which will eliminate the zoning issue.

[2:55:41] County Attorney has indicated that we have to state reasons.

[2:55:44] I think on this is a, would be a legislative event in terms of the cop plan.

[2:55:51] So in terms of stating our reasons, do we state the reasons before we vote?

[2:55:56] What's the process before?

[2:55:58] The motion maker state reasons, yes, I had the motion maker state reasons for it if anybody wants to chime in with additional reasons you're welcome to.

[2:56:09] Mr. Hall. Thank you.

[2:56:12] So whether regarding the building codes, regarding the fire issues, all of that has to be resolved anyway.

[2:56:20] And I trust that it will be, and that's why we have our laws and ordinances in place.

[2:56:25] I'm going to make the motion to deny the growth management change for the commercial PUD from residential.

[2:56:35] Based on, I don't want to see the commercial property increased with the risk of live local.

[2:56:43] And that's a real risk.

[2:56:44] The acre and a half imprint commercial commercially is limiting versus a four acre commercial imprint and the Mercado West is a great example of that.

[2:56:58] They could have lived local debt at a hundred feet and put 70 units in it as it was they only put 29 units in it over parking.

[2:57:07] So I'm going to make the motion to deny the growth management.

[2:57:10] based on, I don't want to see that property with a potential of going live local in the Palm River neighborhood.

[2:57:19] Mr. Chairman, I'm going to second the motion.

[2:57:24] In addition to what was stated, I have a concern of encroachment of commercial into a residential neighborhood.

[2:57:32] I think it presents an unfair impact on the neighbors, and so I am very reluctant to change a

[2:57:41] complaint that our citizens have relied on over the years, so I'm going to second the motion.

[2:57:49] The motion, we have the reasons why, and we have the second, all in favor signify by saying,

[2:57:55] I suppose the same sound, same sound,

[2:58:01] motion to deny his pass.

[2:58:05] That's next.

[2:58:06] So we don't have to hear 9B because that's

[2:58:08] irrelevant now.

[2:58:11] All right, do you, county manager, do you

[2:58:15] think we should take a few 11 items before we get into 9C and 9D?

[2:58:22] Yes, sir.

[2:58:23] If you're planning on taking the lunch break, we

[2:58:25] I think that's not about a couple of the 11s.

[2:58:28] We really, at least the Everglades Air Park item

[2:58:30] and then break for lunch and come back to do 9C and D.

[2:58:33] I believe that's our best avenue for the rest of the day.

[2:58:37] Okay. Well, that will bring us then to item 11A.

[2:58:40] This item was continued from the May 26, 2026 BCC meeting.

[2:58:44] This is a report to the board regarding the status

[2:58:46] of the proposed acquisition of six parcels known

[2:58:49] as the Everglades City Outpost and recommendation

[2:58:51] to deny the agreement for sale and purchase

[2:58:53] and cease negotiations with E.C. Land Holdings L.L.C.

[2:58:57] Mr. Indy Scott, your Department Head for Transportation Management Services, is here to present.

[2:59:11] I'm going to let Tom drive.

[2:59:17] Tom, do you have any speakers on this side?

[2:59:20] Yes, sir.

[2:59:21] Thank you.

[2:59:25] We have speakers.

[2:59:30] Thank you, Tom.

[2:59:31] For the record, Trinity Scott, your Department Head for Transportation Management Services.

[2:59:35] We were in front of you a few months back with regards to a purchasing

[2:59:42] sale agreement for the Everglades City Outpost, which is approximately 52 acres of property

[2:59:48] immediately adjacent to the Everglades Air Park.

[2:59:55] This six parcels, within the Everglades City boundaries.

[3:00:00] The seller is EC and landholdings LLC. It is waterfront property with proximity, as stated to the Everglades City

[3:00:09] Air Park, as well as the Everglades Visitors Center.

[3:00:15] The board, back in July of 2025, had given staff

[3:00:20] direction to begin negotiations for the acquisition of the approximate 52.26 acre property,

[3:00:26] which we had done so we had moved forward with some appraisals, come up with an average

[3:00:39] appraisal price of $6.615 million.

[3:00:44] Because the property was under consideration for use

[3:00:48] of conservation call your dollars, we did proceed forward with talking with the City of

[3:00:54] late city because that is part of the ordinance for the use of conservation call your funds.

[3:01:01] So Commissioner McDaniel in a few staff members went to a city council meeting and June

[3:01:07] 2nd, 2026 to discuss the potential acquisition and receive some input.

[3:01:14] On June 9th, we also attended another meeting and they did provide some conditional support.

[3:01:22] And they had some requirements for that conditional support.

[3:01:29] One was that they required a municipal revenue payment, essentially requesting that the

[3:01:35] county provide the funding back of what they would have received for their municipal taxes

[3:01:44] based on the value of the property.

[3:01:47] They also desired that at least 10 acres be utilized for airport expansion and that no county operated vote ramp on the property.

[3:01:58] So we, staff went back and re-evaluated the property and we are before you today with a recommendation to cease negotiations.

[3:02:15] As we felt that without having the boat ramp on the property, we did not feel that we had sufficient uses.

[3:02:24] And the other item that I wanted to correct on the record was in the executive summary,

[3:02:29] we had noted a strategic plan initiative objective that was consistent with purchasing the policy.

[3:02:37] And this is my error when you're working off of an old executive summary.

[3:02:40] The recommendation should have been it's consistent with the county's responsible governance strategic focus area

[3:02:46] Specifically the objective to safeguard taxpayer money by promoting fiscal stewardship and sound budget oversight. So I apologize for that. That wasn't over site on my part

[3:02:57] Somebody doctor pay

[3:02:58] So our recommendation today is accept the status report

[3:03:05] or deny the agreement for sale and purchase, and direct the county manager does need to cease further negotiations with the seller.

[3:03:15] Mr. McDaniel.

[3:03:16] If we have, I mean public speakers.

[3:03:19] Two sir.

[3:03:20] I'd like to hear from you.

[3:03:21] Okay.

[3:03:21] I'd like to say something.

[3:03:23] Good afternoon, please.

[3:03:25] I don't know.

[3:03:25] A couple more people will let up.

[3:03:26] Mr. Saunders.

[3:03:27] I don't know.

[3:03:28] Okay.

[3:03:29] Go ahead, Tom.

[3:03:31] Thank you.

[3:03:31] Our first registered speaker on the side of his Brad Cornell.

[3:03:34] You

[3:03:39] can only sign up for one thing a day and you take your poison.

[3:03:46] You need to reduce the length of your agendas, but thank you.

[3:03:51] I'm Brad Cornell.

[3:03:52] I'm here on behalf of Audub on Western Everglades.

[3:03:55] Thank you for the opportunity to address you.

[3:03:57] I don't want to talk about the entire project, but I do want to address the mangrove.

[3:04:04] So this site has 30 some acres of mangroves which were slated for conservation

[3:04:11] carrier funding.

[3:04:13] Audemn must never laid strongly supports the protection and acquisition

[3:04:18] and respect for mangrove habitats.

[3:04:21] They're clearly important for the city of Everglades City, for coastal communities,

[3:04:28] here and anywhere in Florida, we recognize the value they have in mitigating storm surge

[3:04:37] damage from hurricanes and tropical storms and the habitat value. So it's clearly a

[3:04:47] valuable habitat asset. However, the $3 million proposed part of this acquisition, we do not support, that does not match with a reasonable appraisal for the 30 sum acres of mangrove.

[3:05:10] So because of that, we would concur with the recommendation for not moving forward with this.

[3:05:17] Thank you.

[3:05:18] Thank you.

[3:05:20] For next registered speaker, is Michelle Lenore?

[3:05:30] Good morning, commissioners.

[3:05:32] Michelle Lenhardt, chair of Conservation Collier.

[3:05:34] And I am also here only to speak about the portion related to Conservation Collier.

[3:05:39] We also represent the land acquisition committees' feelings.

[3:05:43] and we did deny or rate this property as a C and not because of the environmental importance

[3:05:51] of mangroves, which I don't want to repeat auto bonds position, but we agree with that

[3:05:55] as well. More that we felt and the storm surge protection that they afford this community,

[3:06:01] but the public access and recreational opportunities that are not available on this site don't

[3:06:07] really fit with the goals of the Conservation Hollywood program. And I would say the committee

[3:06:12] was concerned about using conservation collier funds for partnership on a property that doesn't meet

[3:06:17] the state and goals of our program. So thank you. Thank you. You can sign up again today.

[3:06:23] I see it. Oh, you're going to love her. Yeah, I'll let her. If you go too long, I can't stay. Oh,

[3:06:29] well, noted. For our lunch today. Yeah.

[3:06:37] I'm ready. Don't need to go now. Go ahead.

[3:06:40] Commissioner McDaniel. Okay, Mr. Chair. Thank you. I'm going to throw a little curve at you.

[3:06:47] Are we not out for world close to an ITN for both FBOs and Everglades and Marco Island or amocally?

[3:06:57] Yes, there we are. Okay. So my suggestion is and there is other work going on that's outside of our staff.

[3:07:04] My suggestion is, in Commissioner Saunders, you brought this up a month or so ago with regard to the upcoming November 3rd vote on Amendment 3, and it's passage or not, whether we're even going to have available tax money, and that's certainly a decision that we will have to make on November 4th, whether or not that amendment passes.

[3:07:26] But my suggestion is we continue this for no-

[3:07:30] Longer than 120 days, the second meeting in January, for sure sooner, if certainly if amendment 3 passes, we can discontinue communication.

[3:07:42] Or discontinue our efforts. There are other efforts going on outside of staff's efforts with regard to exploration, utilization of the property, and what it could or could not be done.

[3:07:55] And so my suggestion is rather than end this today

[3:07:59] that's push it to no later than the second meeting in January

[3:08:04] until this additional data can be brought in.

[3:08:07] So I'll make that as a motion.

[3:08:10] Mr. Sauner, if you want to add some.

[3:08:12] Yeah, I don't think we should continue this.

[3:08:16] I think we should simply say no and move on to other business.

[3:08:21] And I've got a bunch of reasons here.

[3:08:24] And so I'm going to go through them because I think that continuing this simply basically continues

[3:08:30] the pain here a little bit in terms of dealing with the issue.

[3:08:36] Even if amendment three fails, I would still be opposed to this, or the same reasons.

[3:08:42] First and foremost, it's way too expensive for what the county would be able to do with

[3:08:46] this property.

[3:08:48] And one of the selling points of buying this property was that you could have a boat ramp there.

[3:08:56] I was handed a couple letters from some boaters, commercial fishermen from Everglades City.

[3:09:07] I've handed those out to all of the commissioners, but I want to highlight a couple points that are being made in these letters.

[3:09:14] So I think it really points out why the board should just simply say no to this.

[3:09:19] One of the letters is from Captain Steve Huff and just a couple sentences from it as a

[3:09:25] fishing guide of 58 years is fair to say that my boat ramp experience is fairly well-founded.

[3:09:31] My boat is on and off the trailer every day.

[3:09:33] He points this out to say that he supports boat ramps and is certainly familiar with their

[3:09:40] operations.

[3:09:41] But he says, in my opinion, there is no great venue for ramp on that property.

[3:09:46] At present, the parcel is surrounded by water too shallow to launch anything other than

[3:09:51] a canoe at low tide.

[3:09:53] The only exception is along the Bayer River, which has a four to five foot not current flowing

[3:09:59] sweeping down the shore, making a launch virtually impossible, except perhaps for a total

[3:10:05] of about three hours and a 24 hour period during the slack tide.

[3:10:08] The other possibilities to dig a major basin with a ramp inside the expense of which would be greater than the value of the property.

[3:10:18] Have another letter from a commercial fisherman.

[3:10:21] This is from Mike Merritt.

[3:10:24] Any outlines, several reasons why this would be a bad idea.

[3:10:29] The area of the proposed boat ramp is adjacent to the channel used by larger boats to enter and lead the bear and river.

[3:10:35] The distance from the existing shoreline to the channel is less than 100 feet.

[3:10:40] This alone would make for a dangerous confluence of boats.

[3:10:45] We have 50 foot commercial vessels that use this channel during the stonecraft season, commercial

[3:10:50] groupar season, crawfish season, kingfish and macros, et cetera.

[3:10:55] If you mix this with an inexperienced boater, it is just a matter of time, not when someone

[3:11:01] will be injured or worse.

[3:11:02] Then he goes on to say that this is a small town and we enjoy a certain level of tranquility.

[3:11:10] Number three, our area already has six boat ramps that boaters can access.

[3:11:15] They are all privately owned and are sufficiently manned to prevent negative actions by boaters coming in and from outside of town.

[3:11:22] And fourth, perhaps the most important reason of all, is that we live on the outskirts of Everglades National Park.

[3:11:28] every boat that leaves out of here ends up traversing the park, one must remember that there

[3:11:34] is only one Everglades Park. So the idea that there could be a boat ramp there, I think, is,

[3:11:42] I'm watching that there is at least questionable. If you take that out of the mix then I don't think

[3:11:48] you really have a piece of property that the county should be purchasing.

[3:11:55] Again, and also we have rolled

[3:11:57] mill is right back three times at the last four years and that's something I think the board

[3:12:02] is very proud of and we were saving the taxpayers a lot of money. Now I've been opposed to a couple

[3:12:08] of those efforts for reasons that I've discussed in the past but I think when you start looking

[3:12:15] at the potential impact on our overall budget whether or not amendment three passes this is a problem

[3:12:24] And so I would urge the board to simply say, no, we're not going to proceed any further with the acquisition.

[3:12:34] Okay.

[3:12:35] Commissioner Lookaster.

[3:12:36] Yeah, I would second that.

[3:12:37] I don't think kick in the can of 120 days on this one's going to change my view.

[3:12:42] Unless you think there's something magical that's going to come to us.

[3:12:45] I mean, to go back on the last vote.

[3:12:48] But I think the fairway in had more potential to bring us back something a little bit with a little bit more meat on the bone.

[3:12:57] But this one, from the start, I got a lot of those same emails

[3:13:00] and whatnot, it's on us.

[3:13:01] I'm missing something.

[3:13:03] I would, I would second the motions.

[3:13:05] Didn't I have this one right now?

[3:13:09] Commissioner Dario.

[3:13:11] Put the map back up with the acquisition, if you would, please.

[3:13:15] But that one right there.

[3:13:20] Going back to my original discussion.

[3:13:22] There is potential of traveling along to the south

[3:13:26] and not access in that area where the residents,

[3:13:29] said is people in Everglades have expressed a concern right on the river there by

[3:13:34] half of the boat ramp going out to the north, but there is a potential of

[3:13:38] coming along the side of our airport and put in a boat ramp off the south end of

[3:13:43] that runway and there will be some mitigation with some of the mangroves that are

[3:13:48] there in order to effectuate that. Actually that was suggested to me by one of

[3:13:59] is a city councilman, so that was my main reason for continuing this, get through to November 3rd, get our ITN out to find out if we have anybody interested in expanding that FBO that we have there in Everglades City.

[3:14:16] The long and short of it is the one thing none of us can argue is there are not enough public

[3:14:23] boat ramps within our community, and having that boat ramp there would be an enormous asset

[3:14:30] to all of the residents of Calier County and to the residents of Everglades, tourism, restaurant

[3:14:36] business, and access into the Everglades National Park.

[3:14:40] I don't disagree that there are concerns with pushing the, originally we have proposed

[3:14:49] on the site plan to push the, have the boat ramp go out to the north, but I would like,

[3:14:56] I would like a little bit of time to explore whether or not it can be done.

[3:15:00] Halfways cost the fact to believe coming to the south. That's my rationale for pushing.

[3:15:07] I do have a question since you have the map up. Where was if we worked to do to boat ramp originally?

[3:15:15] Where was it proposed? I know it was towards the northern end.

[3:15:18] Right about there. Right in there.

[3:15:21] So it's actually, we would access the water from the actual property purchased.

[3:15:26] Right? There's no boundary between that.

[3:15:28] correct. But we're Commissioner McDaniels

[3:15:32] preferring down here. What didn't have to cross the airport

[3:15:35] property? To meet the water. It would that then be a

[3:15:39] FAA. I mean, would that be there be any more who should have

[3:15:43] to jump through to do it on that end? Potentially yes. I mean,

[3:15:47] it does look in this particular, it does look like in the

[3:15:51] area that it would have to cross through the airport

[3:15:56] own property. So yes, we would have to engage with the FAA.

[3:16:03] I don't know.

[3:16:03] Is there any history where you can have a boat ramp and an airport or the same property

[3:16:07] at the end of the runway? I don't know if it ever existed or that's even a good question.

[3:16:12] We would have to think that it would probably be frowned upon and just spit-balling.

[3:16:18] We would have to work through with the Federal Aviation Administration on that.

[3:16:23] Okay. All right. So Mr.

[3:16:27] You made a original motion.

[3:16:29] I don't think that's active.

[3:16:30] Second, correct.

[3:16:31] No, but you seconded my original motion.

[3:16:34] And I had a second motion from Commissioner.

[3:16:36] So our Saunders, can you go ahead and are you ahead?

[3:16:40] Yeah, I would make a motion to accept the staff report

[3:16:43] that staff cease for the conversations concerning this property.

[3:16:49] Okay, I have a motion to exit.

[3:16:51] So, the motion in the second, all of favor signify by saying aye.

[3:16:55] Aye.

[3:16:56] The pose, same sound, same sign.

[3:16:58] Okay.

[3:16:59] Four, one.

[3:17:00] Thank you.

[3:17:03] We want to try to go to lunch around 12, 30.

[3:17:06] If you think we can squeeze another.

[3:17:08] Terry, how you doing?

[3:17:09] You okay?

[3:17:10] It's on, okay.

[3:17:13] All right.

[3:17:14] That brings us to item 11B.

[3:17:17] This is a recommendation.

[3:17:18] Actually, we could, Commissioner Saunders, we could jump to that crack 10 because then we can take the conservation collar items together.

[3:17:25] So that'll bring us to our add-on item that is item 10A.

[3:17:29] This is a recommendation to direct the county attorney to advertise and ordinance establishing limitations on the use of county funds and county owned or county controlled property for automated license plate recognition cameras providing for permitted and prohibited camera functions.

[3:17:44] requiring compliance certification, providing for municipal participation by opt-in, providing for

[3:17:50] administration and enforcement and providing for applicability and an effective date.

[3:17:55] Again, this item is brought to the agenda by Commissioner Saunders.

[3:17:57] All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The reason I put this on the agenda is we had the share

[3:18:03] of come and make a presentation concerning the use of these flock-type cameras and the share

[3:18:10] dedicated very clearly that he uses these cameras as automated license plate readers only takes

[3:18:19] a still picture of the license plate and that database is kept for a certain limited period

[3:18:24] of time and that information can be used if there's a stolen car or perhaps or if someone

[3:18:32] is driving away and they're impaired and it's reported it'll help locate that type of situation

[3:18:40] will help locate missing persons and that sort of thing, but a very limited use.

[3:18:46] Even with that presentation, I've received numerous letters and emails concerning what happens

[3:18:54] if Sheriff Ram Bosch is no longer in the sheriff.

[3:18:56] As a matter of fact, some of the speakers at that meeting express that very clearly.

[3:19:00] We have a great sheriff, he does a great job, uses these cameras for a very limited purpose,

[3:19:06] But we will eventually have a new sheriff and who knows what a new sheriff might want to do and so I thought well

[3:19:13] Let's codify what the sheriff does and so that in the future if a new sheriff comes in

[3:19:19] That's sure if we'll have to come to the county commission and have an ordinance repealed or modified before funds could be used for something other than

[3:19:28] Automated license plate reading as is currently done by the sheriff

[3:19:32] So I met with the Sheriff yesterday and his legal staff and his team members there and went

[3:19:39] through what I was looking to try to accomplish.

[3:19:43] I wanted to make sure that if we did something like this that the Sheriff would be on board

[3:19:47] with that.

[3:19:48] And the Sheriff was 100% in agreement with this type of a limitation, it meets with his policy

[3:19:56] and certainly understands the concern of citizens in terms of these cameras being used

[3:20:02] of the purposes. With the assistance of one of our dedicated staff folks, I went online

[3:20:12] and had artificial intelligence draft and ordinance. So the ordinance you haven't

[3:20:17] front of you was 100% AI generated, which I could take credit for, but I will tell you

[3:20:22] AI did a great job. But it was just something to get started. So I submitted that to the

[3:20:32] This is kind of what I'm thinking.

[3:20:34] Let's have the county attorney draft the ordinance.

[3:20:37] Bring it back and do it in two readings.

[3:20:41] So that the commission has full opportunity to make sure that it's right.

[3:20:44] Sheriff has full opportunity to make that it's right.

[3:20:47] Let's put it into the concern that our citizens have about how these cameras

[3:20:51] might be used for other purposes.

[3:20:53] This ordinance will only apply to the expenditure of any county funds from any source

[3:20:58] on county property or property control by the county through easement and other other purposes.

[3:21:04] It doesn't apply to private property.

[3:21:06] I don't think we can do that.

[3:21:08] But it would eliminate the concern that citizens have about these cameras being used for surveillance, for example.

[3:21:14] So that's the reason that I brought this for.

[3:21:17] Mr. Hall.

[3:21:18] Thank you, Chairman.

[3:21:20] There was, I agree.

[3:21:23] I thought you did.

[3:21:24] I thought you did that.

[3:21:25] And the photo was a pretty good job, but there was one issue that when I met with Sheriff

[3:21:33] and their staff, we talked about the data that these cameras contain.

[3:21:40] And it was my impression that we least, the cameras, and if they don't have video capability,

[3:21:48] they don't have audio capability, they're only image capable.

[3:21:53] And it was my understanding that the sheriff, they owned the data from these cameras, and it's

[3:22:02] come to my attention in the contract with flock, that in the smaller print flock owns all

[3:22:09] of the data, and the sheriff doesn't have any control of that.

[3:22:13] I would like to see us in this ordinance, address that issue where if we have to end the lease with flock in order to gain the data ownership, I'd be willing to do that.

[3:22:30] I think that's important that we own the data and control the data that's being taken publicly on the citizens, so I would like to see that added if it's possible.

[3:22:43] Mr. Chairman, if I may respond to that, absolutely. That's why I wanted to have something drafted in front of you and have this early conversation, a second opportunity to have a first reading and then final ordinance.

[3:22:56] I think all of those issues should be addressed.

[3:22:59] These cameras are only used for license plate reading right now,

[3:23:03] but they are capable of other functions.

[3:23:07] Those other functions have been disabled.

[3:23:09] And so this proposed ordinance would basically say

[3:23:12] to the share of, it's okay to put those cameras

[3:23:15] that have the capability of doing all of these things.

[3:23:19] As long as there is a certification

[3:23:20] that those capabilities are disabled.

[3:23:22] So it's 100% in law with which you're suggesting as well.

[3:23:28] Mr. Lukasher.

[3:23:29] Thank you, Chairman.

[3:23:30] We all spoke with the sheriff one on one because we all can't speak with him as a group unless he's in here.

[3:23:35] So we did hear from him here and it was basically my invitation to come here.

[3:23:40] He wound up coming two weeks later than what we had invited him to and that was just sort of a fluke.

[3:23:46] And he even said to me, Tom and Cheek, I wish I would have come two weeks sooner because it would have been before the F dot.

[3:23:52] memo and he would have had maybe a little bit of a different presentation.

[3:23:55] But let me just sum it up by saying this.

[3:23:57] One of the things that resonated with me is I asked the sheriff.

[3:24:02] When the governor and F.D. came out with their proposal, their direction,

[3:24:07] did they beforehand speak with all the sheriffs,

[3:24:11] Palalda, all the main players, maybe even from the bigger counties together

[3:24:14] to get their feedback and not line-side you,

[3:24:17] you know, some sort of directive that was shot out or did you see it at the same time we did and he was very

[3:24:23] honest and he said nobody checked in with me and you know I feel like I'm the save as county and

[3:24:27] call your county so you would think I would have really gotten a call and you know it didn't say anything like

[3:24:33] a disrespectful against the governor or the process that hey that's just how it works the governor

[3:24:37] doesn't need Sheriff Rambaos permission to do anything but I think he would have appreciated it.

[3:24:43] I think everything that's in this chat GPT, AI proposal, it might be a good start, but I can just say I feel like I'd like to see this come from the sheriff. I think we're doing the sheriff's homework for him, and I bet maybe he thought it was a great idea, but I think if I had a one-on-one meeting with him and said something totally opposite and said,

[3:25:04] Sheriff, I'd like to give you 30 days to maybe take this suggested ordinance and fill in the

[3:25:12] blanks, but then give us something that came from our colleague Sheriff who we respect so much,

[3:25:17] have it be on your letterhead rather than the commissioners had to tell the Sheriff what to do.

[3:25:22] I think he already knows the temperature of the water when it comes to House Citizen's

[3:25:28] and what we've already talked about, so I think something improved here that has

[3:25:34] issued to the sheriff. Even if it's with his help or support or what have you,

[3:25:40] if he was in the room here, I would say Sheriff, we might come to the same

[3:25:44] solution, but I'd like to see you present it, and with his expertise fill in all

[3:25:49] the holes and whatnot rather than us, you know, create three or four different

[3:25:52] drafts and mail it to the sheriff and say, what do you think about this? What do you

[3:25:58] We give the sheriff a task or a homework assignment, a suggestion, and I think he's already working on it because some of the citizens that met with me, and I think met with all of us separately, have already provided the sheriff some details on these license plate reader cameras and some things that he, he may be kind of missed in his presentation here, so I think he's already chewing on it.

[3:26:23] And I had those folks in my office just yesterday.

[3:26:25] And my suggestion to them was the same thing.

[3:26:28] You've given them all the information.

[3:26:31] He said that he said, thank you.

[3:26:34] Let me go talk to my attorneys.

[3:26:36] He said, yeah, you're highlighting some things.

[3:26:37] It definitely maybe I might have said wrong,

[3:26:41] a spoke, or didn't even know about.

[3:26:43] And what I told that group is, you know,

[3:26:45] your next correspondent with the Sheriff

[3:26:47] or maybe our correspondent should be

[3:26:49] now that we're having a conversation back and forth.

[3:26:51] Why doesn't the sheriff come up with a, with a, with a county ordinance that came from him that he authored that he worked with us on, but like I said, it's on his letterhead. I just think that's more polished.

[3:27:05] It's more professional. I think it's more respectful to the sheriff, just like he would have liked to call from the governor and maybe to be part of the process.

[3:27:15] So, I don't, and I read through the, the initial draft, so I think there's a lot of good things in there, like I said, there might be a few things missing.

[3:27:22] But why don't we just give it to the sheriff informally and say, you know, we'd like you to come back here in next number of days, whatever we think is realistic, you know, not six months.

[3:27:31] And present us with your first draft from our Collier County Sheriff, and I also think that would be very impressive, you know, to other counties in the state that our sheriff took the lead on law enforcement cameras.

[3:27:42] that he installs and he owns and he came up, he took our advice, he took our feedback and

[3:27:49] he came up with a county ordinance that we concurred with and I just think of, you know,

[3:27:55] the chain of command to doing it that way is a lot more proper than us issuing him something

[3:28:01] and he goes, oh yeah okay if that's what you want to do. That's my view of how I think is a better

[3:28:12] way to do it. And I think we'll get a better product because rather than us trying to

[3:28:16] brainstorm all these different drafts and going back and forth to the sheriff, just

[3:28:19] give them something and let him work with his folks that work this issue every day.

[3:28:23] He already knows the public, you know, feedback and our feedback as well. And I think we get

[3:28:28] a better product.

[3:28:31] There's some of Daniel.

[3:28:32] Yes.

[3:28:33] Can I respond to that?

[3:28:34] No.

[3:28:34] Okay.

[3:28:35] Fine.

[3:28:35] Sorry.

[3:28:37] I'm going to say what you're going to say.

[3:28:39] Well, I'm going to say that I take strong exception to everything that commissioner Castro just said.

[3:28:43] Well, I don't take steps into it, but I don't agree with it and he already said I'm right all the time.

[3:28:49] So just make sure a couple of things.

[3:28:53] I agree 100% with Commissioner Hall.

[3:28:57] I've said from the beginning, and Commissioner Coel, you explained it in, I call it simple

[3:29:04] Billy terms when you were talking about the two keys.

[3:29:07] That's right public in private and private's within the four walls of my home public your fair game

[3:29:16] And we get our picture to a call of time if anybody else other than me is watching the lioness

[3:29:22] You know what I'm talking about

[3:29:24] So having said all that data control is imperative commissioner Saunders

[3:29:29] We we we did in fact I like your or and now and I guess for a point of clarification

[3:29:35] No, we voting today on the first reading of this ordinance.

[3:29:39] Absolutely not.

[3:29:40] Absolutely not.

[3:29:41] So we're just having a discussion necessarily.

[3:29:44] And so I like the funding aspect of this because it tells all of the sheriffs that we're ever going to have.

[3:29:53] That the Board of County Commissioners has somewhat of a say so in the control of that data.

[3:29:59] It's going to be.

[3:30:00] There's going to be statute, come out this year, through the legislature, with regard to these, with regard to these cameras.

[3:30:09] The sheriff, we talked about it with the sheriff when he was here. I would like to see it come from the legislature.

[3:30:16] In cooperation and communication with our sheriff. That's one thing I do agree with you, Commissioner Le Castro.

[3:30:23] I think it was a knee-jerk reaction on behalf of the governor somewhat hypocritical, frankly,

[3:30:30] to disallow all of the flock cameras everywhere else except for over his toll boots, which

[3:30:36] are taking the same dog on pictures.

[3:30:38] And so I like the idea of what you're talking about here, Commissioner Saunders, I think

[3:30:45] this puts some bumpers on in advance of that legislation that's in fact going to come

[3:30:50] cross. And if you can add in before we do, in fact, have the first reading, because the

[3:30:57] sheriff, you know, Christian Lecester, you talked, we all met with a sheriff. I felt really

[3:31:02] good when I met with Chief Cunningham about their data control how long they keep it

[3:31:06] out of what the utilize afford, their protocol with regard to the access to those to that

[3:31:12] data. I felt really comfortable with all of that. But in further research, I've seen that

[3:31:20] We don't necessarily own that data and that there may be opportunities for it to be, for

[3:31:25] it to be pilpered in some way, shape or form, so bottom line is, I'm fine with what

[3:31:34] you've proposed here, if we can add in the data, the control on the data aspect of it.

[3:31:42] Mr. Sauner, back to taking some strong exception to what was just said.

[3:31:51] I would say for the record, Commissioner McGanner was 1% correct as he usually is.

[3:32:03] He agreed with Commissioner McGanner.

[3:32:06] There were some statements made that I have to express that a strong exception to.

[3:32:14] Things like this would be more respectful.

[3:32:18] I have a great deal of respect for the sheriff.

[3:32:20] As a matter of fact, I went over to the sheriff's office yesterday with the full intention

[3:32:25] of getting his opinion and if he had said to me, you know, we'd like to go ahead and draft

[3:32:30] this and we'll send it back.

[3:32:31] I would have said fine.

[3:32:32] I didn't go over there with the intention of trying to cram something down the sheriff's throat.

[3:32:36] I went over there as a courtesy to say, here's what I'm thinking.

[3:32:40] Here's an ordinance that I've drafted through AI that is kind of aligned with what I'm thinking.

[3:32:46] What do you think? If he had said, well, let's let's hold off on this or let me do it.

[3:32:52] That had been fine. But he didn't say that. He said, I agree. I think it's a good idea.

[3:32:58] Send us what you send my lawyer what you have and let's move forward with it.

[3:33:02] The other thing, as you said, that it would be more polished, well, I'm not sure how to polish this.

[3:33:07] I will say that I'm trying to put together something from this board that is polished that the county attorney has and that the sheriff's attorney has.

[3:33:16] So I don't even know what that means.

[3:33:18] And then you mentioned more proper approach.

[3:33:21] I'm not sure what's more proper than for me to go over to the sheriff's office.

[3:33:25] hand them what I'm thinking and say, what do you think?

[3:33:29] Let's move forward if you agree with it, and have them say, yes, I think that's, I think that is a proper approach.

[3:33:38] Then you mentioned it'll be a better product.

[3:33:41] This is a product that will be worked with the sheriff in the sheriff's attorney.

[3:33:45] We will get a good product, it won't be a good product that comes just from the county commission.

[3:33:50] It'll be a good product that comes with cooperation and work with the sheriff's department.

[3:33:54] sign off from the Sheriff's Department and the agreement from the Sheriff's Department.

[3:33:59] So I just have to say that I take kind of exception to the thought that I would do something

[3:34:05] that was number one less respectful.

[3:34:09] I would try to put together a product that was less polished or that I would use an improper approach

[3:34:14] to doing this.

[3:34:17] I'm kind of strong in my comments because this gets down to integrity, it gets down to things

[3:34:24] that go personal, and I'm very, very protective of that.

[3:34:29] So I'm trying to do this in the most respectful and proper way, and I thought this would

[3:34:33] be the right way to do it.

[3:34:36] So Mr. Chairman, my motion would be that we simply direct staff to work with the Sheriff's

[3:34:41] office with their council, our county attorney, bring us back something, and a couple

[3:34:47] of three, four weeks, whenever how long it takes, as a first draft, and then we'll have

[3:34:52] second opportunity to add to it, things such as was recommended by Commissioner Hall.

[3:34:58] Mr. Look after.

[3:35:00] Well, I agree with the commissioner.

[3:35:01] Let me clarify a few things.

[3:35:05] And no way I was saying you personally were being disrespectful.

[3:35:09] My comment was, I think the process of us, you know, signing something that the sheriff

[3:35:17] That is a law enforcement issue is not as respectful as giving him ideas that are in the AI drafted ordinance and having him give us something that he has drafted and signed and then we're the second set of signatures

[3:35:36] You know the law enforcement tool then comes from law enforcement so he might have thought it was a great idea in the office yesterday

[3:35:41] But maybe if I would have been in the office yesterday, I'm proposed this, he would have said,

[3:35:46] Wow, I like that even better.

[3:35:48] So I guess I'm taking more of a not such a personal view.

[3:35:51] So if you took of that way, my apologies, but I was talking more about the process.

[3:35:56] Because even when we asked him when you were issued the directive from the Florida Department of Transportation

[3:36:02] on the governor, would you think about that?

[3:36:04] And he's such a professional guy that he wasn't going to throw on anybody under the bus.

[3:36:07] But it was obvious he would have appreciated being able to be part of the process before it was authored.

[3:36:17] I maybe feel different about government for some law enforcement type of tool.

[3:36:23] I think it coming from legislators isn't as proper as it coming from the people who actually own it, which is law enforcement.

[3:36:31] In the end, we may come to the same result, maybe we're going to have the same ordinance, but the signatures are just going to be reversed, it's authored by the sheriff, it's concurred for on by us.

[3:36:41] That's what I think is more proper, so I have no problem with at least starting the conversation and giving them some drafts and whatnot, but my suggestion if the sheriff was here would be, you know, I'd like to see it typed on the computers in your office.

[3:36:57] And I do think it would be, when I say polished, I think he is a lot more expertise on

[3:37:04] law enforcement.

[3:37:05] He talks to his counterparts regularly and we don't.

[3:37:09] And so maybe if polish is a word that affends you, what I would say is maybe it would be

[3:37:15] more complete, maybe it would be, it would have, you know, he can ensure it didn't have

[3:37:21] some holes or loop holes, some things were not experts in, so I just feel that for an

[3:37:27] That is addressing up.

[3:37:30] A specific law enforcement tool, and those were his words, that our suggestion should be that he take our suggestions, but that any ordinance come from his office to us to concur with.

[3:37:44] And the product may be exactly the same, but I think the procedure, the process,

[3:37:55] the proper chain of command, much like the way I believe most sheriffs would have liked to see.

[3:37:59] and what came down from them, from the state, would have been done.

[3:38:06] I like government legislation a little less than government's telling the sheriff.

[3:38:11] Here's your new ordinance, thanks for your input, but we signed it.

[3:38:16] And then we asked you to concur on it.

[3:38:17] I just think that that's backwards.

[3:38:20] If it comes out with the same result and same wordage,

[3:38:22] and we work on it together.

[3:38:24] I think that's what's the most important thing.

[3:38:25] But in the end I'd like to see our sheriff give us the final product that he and his experts have worked on rather than us drafted for him and just have him read multiple versions until he's okay with it.

[3:38:41] And I think if he was here and we were having this healthy discussion, I would hope he would see the difference and it might be subtle, but I think it's important.

[3:38:50] But just for expedience, let me just crack me from wrong county attorney, but the sheriff can't create an ordinance.

[3:38:59] He's an executive officer to carry out enforcing an ordinance.

[3:39:04] He would have to still work with us on an ordinance, just like any other ordinance that we do.

[3:39:09] Like we did the like safety citizen.

[3:39:11] We always worked on the hand with the sheriff when I didn't bet the sheriff.

[3:39:16] Yeah, we do initial draft.

[3:39:18] We all sit around talking about it, we have a reading, and we come back and we all add

[3:39:22] our things out, and add things to it, and then eventually we get the sheriff's not at the end

[3:39:26] of the day, and we create the ordinance.

[3:39:28] He enforces it.

[3:39:30] Now, the sheriff can make his own SOP, his own policy, and his own operational procedures within

[3:39:34] the sheriff's office, but he can't create ordinance that's being forced upon the people

[3:39:39] the Carter County. That's our job. Just for a heads up. So, Mr. Sergeant, do you want

[3:39:45] to say anything else? Yeah, I was just going to say exactly what you said that we

[3:39:49] drafted ordinances, but just to assure the public in the board, there's not going to be

[3:39:54] a single word in any draft ordinance that this commission passes that the sheriff doesn't

[3:39:59] sign off in the Gretto. So, this will be not just the sheriff drafting an ordinance. It won't

[3:40:04] be just the county drafting an ordinance. This is going to be the county and the sheriff working

[3:40:08] to gather hand in hand to draft an ordinance that will protect the citizens of Kyra County.

[3:40:12] That was my goal, purely, not to run rough shot over the sheriff.

[3:40:18] After all he has the guns and I don't, so I wouldn't want to do that.

[3:40:22] It's the work closely with him and that's the way I've always operated on any ordinance

[3:40:26] I've ever drafted or when I was in the legislature and in legislation, to have it be an

[3:40:32] effort of the affected parties to make sure it's exactly what they want, as well as what

[3:40:36] we want.

[3:40:37] So no real offense was taken.

[3:40:39] I just wanted to make a point and that's why I did it.

[3:40:42] So no apologies, Nestle or anything.

[3:40:44] I was just just just wanted to make a point.

[3:40:46] So thank you.

[3:40:47] So that's my motion.

[3:40:49] That's the thing.

[3:40:50] Anna, congratulations for the cash or the cash.

[3:40:52] We're going to go ahead and vote on this in a second.

[3:40:54] I guess my follow-up would be, is that everything doesn't have to be an ordinance.

[3:40:58] Everything doesn't have to come from the legislative branch, but like I said, I'm not sitting

[3:41:05] I'm here following on my sword over this, I just wanted to speak on a different angle of how I think, especially how I believe law enforcement works with my military background as well.

[3:41:16] You know, a chain of command and sort of who's in charge of what, and the end, like I said, it could be an ordinance that was here.

[3:41:22] But I think that I don't think I'll share if we'd use chat, GPT to come up with draft number one.

[3:41:26] I think it used all of his experts who have actually been enforcing and utilizing these cameras correctly.

[3:41:31] So however you want to hand it to him, I'm glad to hear that we'll work hand it hand and if his

[3:41:37] signature is on the left or the right and we think it doesn't matter and this sheriff doesn't

[3:41:41] think it matters.

[3:41:43] Well, as long as we come up with a good document that gives clear direction, I just feel we're

[3:41:51] doing it a little bit backwards but it's not enough to follow my sword over.

[3:41:56] I'm gonna have a motion in a second.

[3:41:58] All in favor on us moving forward in the process because it's all we're doing correctly.

[3:42:03] Bye.

[3:42:05] Bye.

[3:42:06] I call this St. John St. John St. John St. John.

[3:42:09] All right. I'm sorry.

[3:42:10] All right. It's 12.37. Let's be back.

[3:42:13] Let's take an hour for lunch.

[3:42:16] Back at 1.37.

[4:38:10] You

[4:39:08] said I'll give me one dollar,

[4:39:17] got to give you a man. It was a present from my mother.

[4:41:39] All right, everyone, if you've got to take your seats, we're going to go ahead and get started again.

[4:41:44] I think we're going to go right into the county manager.

[4:41:46] I believe we're 9C and 9C and 9C.

[4:41:52] with 9c. This is a recommendation to approve an ordinance, amending ordinance, 89-05, as amended.

[4:42:00] The Coyote County Growth Management Plan to amend ordinance, oh, I just heard that twice. Sorry about that.

[4:42:08] Specifically, amending the future land use elements and maps to change the land use designation

[4:42:13] from agricultural rural designation, rural fringe, mixed use district spending lands to agricultural

[4:42:19] rural, designation, agricultural, rural mixed-use district.

[4:42:23] 341-sabled palm-road golf course sub-district,

[4:42:26] to allow an 18-hole golf course

[4:42:28] managed in accordance with the best management practices

[4:42:30] of the Audubon International's gold signature program,

[4:42:34] and transient lodging facilities in the form of 10

[4:42:37] member-guest golf cottages.

[4:42:39] And furthermore, directing transmittal of the adoption

[4:42:41] amendment to the Florida Department of Commerce,

[4:42:44] providing for severability and providing for an effective date,

[4:42:47] The subject property is 169.19 plus minus acres and located on the south side of Sable Palm Road,

[4:42:54] approximately 1.4 miles east of Collier Boulevard, and section 25, township 50 south range 26 east

[4:43:01] Collier County, Florida. It's companion item 9D is a recommendation to approve an ordinance

[4:43:08] amending ordered number 2004-41 is amended at the Collier County Land Development Code,

[4:43:13] which established the comprehensive zoning regulations for the unincorporated area of

[4:43:17] Callier County, Florida by amending the appropriate zoning atlas map or maps by changing

[4:43:22] the zoning classification of the here and described real property from a rural agricultural

[4:43:27] zoning district within the rural mixed rural fringe mixed use district overlay sending areas

[4:43:33] and the natural resource protection overlay and partly in the special treatment overlay to a

[4:43:41] Community Facility Plan Unit Development Zoning District for the project to be known as the

[4:43:46] 341-Sable Palm Road, CFPUD, to allow an 18-hole golf course management accordance with

[4:43:53] the best management practices of the Audubon International Signature Sanctuary Certification

[4:43:57] Gold Level, and Transient Logic Facilities in the form of 10 member guest golf cottage units,

[4:44:04] and by providing an effective date, the subject property consisting of 169.19 plus minus acres

[4:44:09] is located on the south side of stable palm road. Approximately 1.4 miles east of

[4:44:14] call your boulevard in section 25 township 50 south range 26 east call your county

[4:44:20] Florida. With that commissioner's ex-partei.

[4:44:23] Mr. Sons. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I have the whole list of ex-partei communications involving

[4:44:29] letters, emails, and telephone calls and meetings.

[4:44:34] Mr. Hall.

[4:44:35] Me too. I got the whole shoot match.

[4:44:37] All right. Commissioner of the Castro.

[4:44:39] Same here. All they booked.

[4:44:42] Commissioner of a Daniel. Me too.

[4:44:45] I guess we got a full house. I got me too.

[4:44:47] All the same. So that being said.

[4:44:51] Yes, with that, we need everyone who plans on testifying and

[4:44:54] including public speakers to stand and be sworn in by the court reporter.

[4:45:08] Just like earlier, just if we can all respect each other's time, we're at the podium. When you're at the podium, I know we're going to, I think, Tom, we have how many public speakers? 40, 40, any on, on liner?

[4:45:22] Yes, 34 in the room and six on Zoom. Okay. Okay. So once again, this is, you know, have the quorum that we had earlier, we respect everybody's time, whatever up there.

[4:45:32] And then we will go ahead, I don't know if people were familiar, this item we've heard back in I want to say to you and you were here.

[4:45:42] It was pretty way back.

[4:45:44] Yeah, it's been a while.

[4:45:45] Since my first, I think it was one of my first meetings as chair.

[4:45:48] And I think we went six and a half hours.

[4:45:53] The eight, maybe I heard from the audience.

[4:45:56] I think at one point we got to the point where we were like, listen,

[4:45:59] We have several people in this book, we have several people represented several organizations

[4:46:04] like Audubon, Conservation, a couple of different conservancy type organizations.

[4:46:12] And I think that today we decided to let the owner, his attorneys, and Commissioner

[4:46:17] LaCaster, you participated in some sort of action after the fact that with these other

[4:46:24] organizations and their representatives too because there was several comments that there

[4:46:29] was organizations out there that are interested in the property that would want to

[4:46:34] maybe participate in purchasing the property from the owner.

[4:46:37] And I think the end result was that there was never really any resolve.

[4:46:43] No, man.

[4:46:43] Summarines.

[4:46:44] If you could, please.

[4:46:45] Yeah, just for the folks in the audience, we got plenty of emails this week and do this,

[4:46:50] do that to this.

[4:46:50] We've actually done a lot.

[4:46:51] I mean, when we were in this room,

[4:46:53] what earlier in the year, as Commissioner Cole all said,

[4:46:57] you know, a proposal came to us for 400 plus houses,

[4:47:01] and you know, that we not necessarily just proved that,

[4:47:03] but between then and now, we had people at the podium

[4:47:06] that made statements like, oh, there's a million other things

[4:47:08] you can do with that property.

[4:47:09] And boy, there's so many people that would be interested in investing in it.

[4:47:13] And so I said, great.

[4:47:14] I will hunt show as many meetings as possible with environmental groups,

[4:47:19] with citizens, with anyone involved,

[4:47:20] Because we want all possible options rather than just, you know, you got to make it a dog park, you know, I mean, you know, we need realistic things and then the county commissioner conference room, we hosted multiple meetings with the applicant without the applicant with the with the property owner with environmental groups with even even a group that said that they were interested in making an offer for the for the property and in the end, all those things were sort of great discussion.

[4:47:49] but none of them had had any air speed at all, they weren't investors who came forward to

[4:47:58] the environmental groups and the environmental groups weren't able to get their donors to

[4:48:04] cough up the money and make up, make up and offer to the owner. The person that came that had an

[4:48:11] idea was to young gentlemen and they wanted to turn it into a like a dune buggy and a motorcycle

[4:48:16] race track, which certainly didn't, and they didn't have the funds basically to do it.

[4:48:21] So we've spent, you know, we haven't just kicked the can on this one.

[4:48:24] We've spent a lot of time meeting with different groups and keeping the lines of communication

[4:48:28] wide open, so that if there was something that we weren't thinking of or, you know, citizens

[4:48:33] are very active on social media, saying, you know, the county should do this, the county should

[4:48:37] do that.

[4:48:38] And I will tell you, we did all of those things, and so, but one of the things we also

[4:48:43] at the last meeting and it was even a challenge of sort of speak by some people who spoke

[4:48:49] against the houses which we did vote down. I'm at the podium and said, you know, bring

[4:48:54] up, bring an option that would be environmentally friendly that wouldn't cause huge traffic

[4:49:00] backups that wouldn't build 400 homes that wouldn't destroy the land and the water and all

[4:49:04] of that. So that was one of the options and just to tie up one other loose end, I got plenty

[4:49:10] emails, we all did, from some people, even last night, saying, you know, the owner agreed

[4:49:17] to appraise the property on conservation call, and we agreed on my motion to move forward

[4:49:24] within appraisal. And those of you that got emails from me, the property was appraised. It

[4:49:29] did come up with a number, but the one correction was just because the owner filled out the paper

[4:49:34] work and agreed to allow us to appraise the property. Doesn't mean the owner was interested,

[4:49:39] You know, a lot of people said, you need to take the owners, you know, offer the offer that you've made,

[4:49:47] the owner sounds like he wants to sell to conservation collier, and that wasn't the case.

[4:49:51] We wanted the opportunity to be able to run the conservation collier option all the way to the finish line,

[4:49:56] which we did, but we can't make the owner purchase it.

[4:50:00] So all of those things were exhausted over all this time, and that's why now we're back here.

[4:50:04] And the owner does have the rights to, to trust to hear ideas that they have and for us to consider them.

[4:50:11] And we also will consider anything else that was out there, but, you know, we weren't sitting on any big solutions.

[4:50:18] And certainly, we ran the conservation, higher option all the way to the finish line.

[4:50:22] But, you know, the owner rejected the offer just a day or two ago. I think formally.

[4:50:27] So that's where we are here, and a lot has been done to try to come up with some very unique solution that is the best of all worlds and we haven't gotten to it.

[4:50:42] So I appreciate you kind of bringing everybody up to speed. I know you spend a lot of time on that and I know a lot of people in the room.

[4:50:50] you know, some of them probably the same people were here last time, sat through this, we're

[4:50:55] going to do it again today, but they are bringing another idea, a different concept forward

[4:51:01] for this property in lieu of just being an old orange grove, because I think ultimately

[4:51:07] today what we're basically going to decide is either it stays an old orange grove or it

[4:51:12] becomes something else and the other else is offering or putting up the chance to ask for permission

[4:51:20] to do this golf course. So that's basically where we're at right now. All those other options

[4:51:25] that we were thinking of or had people saying would work or would work. We tried them.

[4:51:31] I mean, we went exhausted at the ability to find other avenues or other people willing to invest

[4:51:36] in the property and it fell short. So basically what's before us today is we're going to weigh

[4:51:43] different what's what's better in old orange growth or possibly a golf course that

[4:51:52] supposedly under certain circumstances is some sort of a lot of bond. I guess we'll

[4:51:56] learn more about it on a bond international certified golf course as I guess they

[4:52:01] have them throughout the country. So we'll go ahead from there. Potitioner. Thank you.

[4:52:07] Thank you. Thank you. For the record, Rich Uonovich on behalf of the

[4:52:12] which is the Smith family as well as the applicant, which is SWJR Naples 1 LLC with me today is our expert plan or Alexis Crespo, our transportation consultant,

[4:52:26] in order to build a co-occur and buy a melt and solve it, TMI.

[4:52:30] All, we left out our engineer. Sorry. Our engineer is here as well on the slip end. I have two golf course related consultants. One is Tim Hilderbrand. He will talk about the need and there is a demand for additional golf courses in

[4:52:51] in Carter County.

[4:52:53] People have said there isn't, but we will show you

[4:52:55] that there is, in fact, a demand.

[4:52:58] And Aldori, who is, I'll let him introduce yourself.

[4:53:03] But himself, he was with WCI, Kitson.

[4:53:05] He was with the DEP for the state.

[4:53:07] And he has actually been involved in 12 auto-bond gold

[4:53:11] signature golf courses, so he'll

[4:53:13] be able to explain the environmental benefits of that program.

[4:53:16] Before I get too far into this, this autobahn international certification is in your growth

[4:53:28] management plan and it's in your land development code.

[4:53:32] We didn't make this up.

[4:53:33] This is the standard that was adopted as part of the rural fringe mixed use district when

[4:53:39] it was implemented in the early 2000s and that, if you were recall, that rural fringe

[4:53:46] This mixed-use district program came about as a result of environmental groups, challenging

[4:53:54] the county's growth management plan.

[4:53:57] And those very same environmental groups had a very heavy hand in designing the Royal

[4:54:03] French mixed-use district standards, including including this autobiant gold certification

[4:54:09] standard in the land development code as it exists today.

[4:54:12] So I find it hard to sit here and listen and I'm sure we'll hear it again because we heard it to plenty commission.

[4:54:20] There's very same people around criticizing the program that they had a hand including in the gross management plan.

[4:54:29] But you'll hear from how that is, a program that takes into consideration environmental issues related to the development of the proposed golf course.

[4:54:41] I think, you know, Christian Castro has summed it up very well, we did, we did everything

[4:54:47] after us. We applied to the Conservation Coyote Program. We were asked to do that we did.

[4:54:53] If you all were to call, you guys struggled with even going forward with the appraisal because

[4:54:57] you didn't think that the grove really met the criteria for the Conservation Coyote Program.

[4:55:02] But in fairness, you all said, well, let us appraise it and see if it comes up with a number

[4:55:07] that makes sense, but it is not a classification-carder piece of property.

[4:55:15] It didn't score the way I really should have scored to be considered, but nonetheless we did

[4:55:21] receive an offer.

[4:55:25] It was not consistent with something that the property owner is willing to accept.

[4:55:33] No buyers have come forward, it's no waiting, and then we were also asked, and all the

[4:55:39] I disagree, and there was actually no vote at the last meeting we continued before there

[4:55:44] was a vote so that we could come up with other alternatives so the petition could stay alive.

[4:55:49] So if we could come up with a less intensive use, we could present that less intensive use.

[4:55:54] So, we have a much less intensive use that we're going to go through with a lot of experts.

[4:56:02] I'm not going to, I'm just going to briefly go back where we are, just for purposes of,

[4:56:06] this is 169 acre.

[4:56:09] Orange Grove.

[4:56:10] It's basically a dead orange Grove.

[4:56:13] As you're all aware, basically the citrus industry is a dying industry in Florida.

[4:56:20] This is a dying orange Grove.

[4:56:26] Also, I want to point out, and Alexis is going to get in this from a compatibility standpoint.

[4:56:33] We're not asking him to creep a commercial use into a residential neighborhood.

[4:56:40] If you look in the screen, we're 2,100 feet from Verona Walk.

[4:56:48] And that's a preserve between us and Verona Walk.

[4:56:51] So unlike what you heard earlier, we're not trying to do a commercial project.

[4:56:55] We are a golf course only development with 10 cottages that will serve the members.

[4:57:03] We're not trying to trick the county into giving us an approval that we will then be able to use to do a live local project.

[4:57:13] If we wanted to do a live local project, we've already been pursuing the live local project through their court system.

[4:57:19] We want to do what we committed to do is to build a project that is compatible with

[4:57:25] our neighbors, and that is environmentally compatible with what is around us.

[4:57:31] So what you have in front of you today is a growth management plan amendment to create

[4:57:35] the Savel Pomp Road Golf Course Subdistrict and a rezoned to a community facility

[4:57:43] PUD to allow for the 18-hole golf course with 10 transient member gift guest golf couches.

[4:57:57] We are comfortable imposing a deed restriction on the property.

[4:58:02] You say that this property will never be developed as residential.

[4:58:05] We've done that in other examples.

[4:58:07] Most recently I did a golf condo and a car condo project on Santa Barbara.

[4:58:13] But there was a concern that by allowing that commercial use in this residential neighborhood

[4:58:17] would be the Supreme Board to a live local project.

[4:58:23] We agreed to record a deed restriction and we recorded that deed restriction for a

[4:58:27] happening residential development on that property.

[4:58:30] We're willing to do that on this and we're also willing if it's the will of the commission

[4:58:38] so we'll eliminate the cottages altogether.

[4:58:39] We think it's a good amount to you for the club, but we are not interested in a live local project.

[4:58:48] So we want to get that out there early on and we'll say that often.

[4:58:52] We are not going to do a residential development on this property.

[4:58:55] That's not our goal.

[4:58:57] Our goal is to honor our commitment to come back to you with a less intense use on the property that is compatible with the surrounding and is environmentally friendly.

[4:59:08] And then you will hear that from our environmental consultant, Tim Hall, about environmental

[4:59:14] compatibility.

[4:59:15] You'll hear from, again, an owl on how the design of the golf course takes into consideration

[4:59:20] this surrounding environment and how it actually will result in better water quality going

[4:59:27] into the preserves around the property than exist today through the orange groves.

[4:59:33] A couple of important provisions I want to highlight in our sub-district is D. I've already talked about the Audubon International Signature Sanctuary Gold Certification that is taking from your existing comprehensive plan.

[4:59:53] Also, I wanted to point out in letter E that

[5:00:00] In order to prevent the contamination of soil, surface water and groundwater by the materials stored and handled by the golf course maintenance operations, golf courses shall comply with the best management practices for golf course maintenance departments prepared by the Florida Department of Environmental Protection.

[5:00:17] So there are safeguards in the comprehensive plan, as well as in the PUD, you safeguard storm water and environmental related issues that the golf course will be able to be compatible with the surrounding preserve areas and fit in nicely with the surroundings.

[5:00:46] Again, the property ours didn't know what was happening to them when the Royal

[5:00:52] François cheese district program was being initiated.

[5:00:56] I think your staff testified to the Plans of Commission that had they got involved in

[5:01:01] this program at the very beginning.

[5:01:02] This land probably would have been designated neutral or receiving lands, had they involved themselves

[5:01:09] in this problem.

[5:01:10] But they didn't.

[5:01:11] They didn't know about it.

[5:01:11] are where we are. But when you look at that orange grove, it is not a sending land piece of property.

[5:01:19] So we are asking for an 18-hole golf course, 10 transient number cottages. There are four bedrooms

[5:01:30] each with a maximum stay of 30 days. Those were conditions that your staff thought were appropriate to make

[5:01:36] sure we weren't going to have any residential homes on this property. So we incorporated that.

[5:01:41] We have 70% usable open space. The reality is we'll have more than that because it's a golf course

[5:01:47] But that's the minimum standard same thing with the preservation of native vegetation. I'll show you on our master plan

[5:01:53] We really don't have much native vegetation and we're well above the 35% requirement

[5:01:59] We're gonna have a clubhouse practice facilities maintenance facilities water management facilities and

[5:02:07] related recreational amenities for this golf only

[5:02:11] golf course. We're not a country club. That's going to be allowed users. It's a golf, it's just a golf course with numbers. We're a low trip generator, 57, two way peak hour net trips is a high number. Because your IT manual includes public golf courses when they're talking about how they calculate peak hour trips. We're a private golf course.

[5:02:35] We will not have 57 two way peak hour trips and we didn't even subtract in that 57

[5:02:43] There's already trips coming and going from the

[5:02:48] When the retail operations that are occurring on the side already

[5:02:52] So this is we didn't even subtract out from this number. This is the worst case number as if this was property that had no trips going to it today

[5:03:00] So first 57

[5:03:01] and two way PMP power trips, and two, and we're going to have private onsite well-inceptic

[5:03:09] to serve the golf course clubhouse as well as we have the bathrooms on the golf course.

[5:03:15] So we're not extending public water, we're not extending public sewer, so this property

[5:03:19] isn't going to all of some transform itself into a 400 plus residential development because

[5:03:26] will not have the necessary utilities to serve anything but a golf course. So what we've tried

[5:03:33] to do is make it very clear, very transparent, that we have a low impact use on this property.

[5:03:43] One of the things in my one-on-ones that we had previously committed when this was a residential

[5:03:50] development to doing this to assist getting the water on the north side of Sabel

[5:03:55] Palm to the south side of Sabel Palm. Commissioner McGangiel and our 101

[5:04:00] reminded me of that commitment and said, are you going to continue to do that?

[5:04:06] And I said, well, I wouldn't plan it on it. He goes, yes, you are. So we will commit to

[5:04:11] providing those two culverts underneath Sabel Palm Road. So water in the area can

[5:04:19] go from the north to the south to save opomax like a dam. So we need to add that commitment

[5:04:27] to the PUD should we get to a point where you bring a boat to recommend or actually you

[5:04:36] don't recommend. You decide should you decide to approve. So we've committed to providing

[5:04:42] those additional call of water management benefits to the overall community.

[5:04:51] One other question that I was asked about was there seems to be a little bit of a drain

[5:04:57] issue in community nearby, it's escaping me for the moment, the dammer in the dammer in the

[5:05:09] We are willing to, they don't have a problem treating their water, they have a problem getting rid of the water.

[5:05:18] So we're willing to take, and they got us to get us to numbers.

[5:05:23] I can't say we'll take every drop of water on that property, but we're willing to take the water they can't get rid of right now through their system, through our system.

[5:05:33] They'll have to get the water to us, but we'll take it through our system, and in exchange

[5:05:39] for that we need to know what that number is within 90 days, and we want them to, and

[5:05:45] we've estimated, we've got to guess as to what it, as a guest as to what it is and what

[5:05:51] it's going to cost us to accommodate that.

[5:05:53] We're going to ask them to pay for the necessary upgrades to accommodate that water.

[5:06:00] we estimate that at about $500,000.

[5:06:04] So we will help Timberindo solve their water management problem

[5:06:07] as part of this, we could take them through our system,

[5:06:11] but we're not going to take on the cost of that.

[5:06:14] So we're willing to, they passed the $500,000,

[5:06:18] we estimated, we'll take their water through our system

[5:06:24] and disperse it at the appropriate discharge rates.

[5:06:28] So they'll get us through clean water,

[5:06:30] We'll disperse it through our project into the adjacent preserve.

[5:06:36] So we're willing to take on and assist not only into the golf course to take on and assist in water management issues that are in this area,

[5:06:45] that are there today without our project.

[5:06:48] So there are additional besides this being an economically and economically and environmentally sensitive project.

[5:06:54] We are also willing to dissipate and solving some public problems in that area.

[5:07:03] With regard to the master plan, I don't point here, do I?

[5:07:11] This is an odd.

[5:07:14] But that's okay.

[5:07:15] You could see the two native preservation areas that are the native areas that we have on

[5:07:20] our property.

[5:07:20] We're basically keeping the only native areas that are on our property as part of our master plan.

[5:07:26] Our access, we have one access, many access point, thank you.

[5:07:30] These are the two, just the native areas that are on our site, we're keeping them both.

[5:07:37] Our main access to the golf course is right here off of Sable Palm.

[5:07:42] And then we have a secondary access for our maintenance facility on Sable Palm.

[5:07:48] We have not yet formally engaged the golf course architect.

[5:07:52] I made the wrong career choice when I went to college.

[5:07:58] I should have been majored in agronomy and become a golf course architect.

[5:08:03] They're pretty steep in costs.

[5:08:06] But we've had golf course architects out to the site.

[5:08:11] They looked at it.

[5:08:12] They think that this is a great piece of property and they'd like the surrounding environmental

[5:08:17] because they think that will fit nicely into a uniquely designed,

[5:08:21] high-end private golf course. So I don't have an 18-hole layout to show you today, but we've

[5:08:31] had architects out there and they're excited about the potential for designing something unique

[5:08:37] that they could put their name on and that will be attractive to future members of this golf course.

[5:08:48] I'm going to stop here and if you don't have any questions to me at this point, I'm going

[5:08:52] to ask Alexis to come up and talk a little bit about compatibility with our surroundings.

[5:08:57] And then we'll progress through our various experts to talk about the need for the demand for

[5:09:03] more golf and environmental, environmental comments from Tim, and then Tim Hall, I get two

[5:09:11] to mail the brand to Tim Hall, and then we'll open it up to questions.

[5:09:18] And Rachel, quick question.

[5:09:19] Mr. Hawes, quick question.

[5:09:20] What are your thoughts where the 10 colleges are going to go?

[5:09:22] I don't think that we've laid out exactly where they would be.

[5:09:27] The courses that I've been fortunate to play.

[5:09:30] They usually kind of line up with the entry row,

[5:09:32] but they could be anywhere on the course.

[5:09:34] I wouldn't make sense.

[5:09:41] Thank you.

[5:09:41] Good afternoon.

[5:09:42] My name is Alexis Crespo. I'm the Vice President of Planning with RBI, Planning and

[5:09:47] Lanescape Architecture, it's a pleasure to be here today. My role was to assess the impacts

[5:09:53] of the proposed CFP UD in relation to the RP UD you saw earlier or last year rather.

[5:10:01] So assessing the private golf course, the 10 transient members only, guest cottages in relation

[5:10:08] to the 423 dwelling units, you saw presented in the residential

[5:10:12] planned unit development.

[5:10:13] And across the board, not just in one metric, but in all metrics,

[5:10:17] the proposal before you today is significantly

[5:10:19] reduced impact to the facilities and infrastructure

[5:10:23] of call your county as well as to the surrounding neighborhood.

[5:10:27] We've quantified that a bit free on this slide,

[5:10:30] norms real-cock performed both traffic studies

[5:10:32] for both the RPUD as well as the CFPUD.

[5:10:35] You can see it's an 80% reduction in the PM peak hour trip cap and total daily trips.

[5:10:42] As Rich said, there's an estimate about 57 peak hour trips for the site and that is

[5:10:49] in our opinion over estimates.

[5:10:51] So very, very low traffic producing project really couldn't think of many land uses that

[5:10:56] would generate less trips than what is being proposed for the site.

[5:11:00] Additionally, increased open space, golf courses are inherently lots of green space, lots of

[5:11:06] pervious areas, naturally landscape, so certainly we are increasing on our PewDieMaster

[5:11:12] plan by 10% up to 70% open space total, but at build out the site will be very low intensity

[5:11:20] in terms of any built structures on the site. It would really be limited to the golf course,

[5:11:26] the maintenance area, parking lot, et cetera, as well as the 10 transient cottages.

[5:11:32] Because of our occupancy limitations, because these are not residential dwelling units,

[5:11:36] we will not have any impact on color county parks and wreck facilities.

[5:11:41] We will have no impact on schools, obviously, because there are no dwelling units within the project.

[5:11:47] And then the last item really in terms of neighborhood compatibility.

[5:11:50] As you saw in our master plan, we're abutting preserver areas largely within the Hossandra Lakes

[5:11:55] MPUD to our south and our west.

[5:11:58] We also have preserve lands to our east.

[5:12:00] So we're very well insulated from any residential uses immediately in the area.

[5:12:05] We do have some large lot of states to the north of Saibu Palm.

[5:12:10] And as Rich said, our closest neighbor to the west and Boronawak, they're 2,100 feet away from us.

[5:12:16] So that's almost half a mile of distance intervening preserve areas, as well as, again, a very, very low

[5:12:23] entities on the subject property that will ensure compatibility with our neighborhoods

[5:12:27] with the surrounding neighborhoods when coupled with the proposed uses.

[5:12:33] There's also several commitments within the PUD as well as within the growth management

[5:12:38] plan for additional protections such as dark sky compliant.

[5:12:42] This use will not be active in the nighttime.

[5:12:44] We'll also provide great areas for habitat recreation as you're going to hear from the environmental

[5:12:50] team.

[5:12:50] So with that, I'll turn it over to Tim Hall.

[5:13:01] Good afternoon, commissioners.

[5:13:04] Tim Hall with Terrell Hall and Associates.

[5:13:08] Here talk about some of the environmental changes

[5:13:10] associated with the golf course versus the Orange Grove.

[5:13:15] And it kind of falls into three major categories.

[5:13:19] One has to do with the score of water treatment.

[5:13:22] The golf, the Orange Grove has basically

[5:13:26] uncontrolled pumping.

[5:13:27] pump enough water off of the site to keep the trees dry enough to survive when it gets

[5:13:33] really wet. Whereas the golf course when it comes in will have a controlled

[5:13:38] stormwater outfall system. And what this really does is benefit some of the downstream

[5:13:43] areas where the water is going into it when you pump. You're putting a lot of water into

[5:13:48] a small area in a quick period of time. So that hydrology is regime is not something

[5:13:55] that the plants are really used to and going through the controlled outfall with the spreader

[5:14:02] system and the ability for the water to go out on a more natural pace is more conducive

[5:14:08] to that natural vegetation that's in those preservatives around the development.

[5:14:14] Second has to do with the irrigation and water usage under the autobond system, they take those

[5:14:22] things into account and they look at those by reducing and you'll have other people talking

[5:14:27] about that as well. But reducing turf area, utilizing native vegetation, all these things

[5:14:33] that go into reducing the amount of irrigation that they actually need to keep the course

[5:14:37] playable. And then lastly is that the open space associated with the golf course and those natural

[5:14:45] areas that are incorporated into it can continue to be used by some of the animals that are

[5:14:51] the preserve areas around the project. You'll see this, any of you that have the opportunity

[5:14:56] to go out to some of the golf courses like 20 goals.

[5:15:00] Out east, where the courses is integrated into the lands around it, and the wildlife uses those golf courses for, you know, for foraging, to escape predators and all kinds of things like that. So those uses are are still present and accommodated for under the golf course use. And with that I can turn it over to Mr. Hildebrand.

[5:15:35] Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Tim Hilderbrand and my role really was to assess the golf market here in Calier County.

[5:15:44] According to Florida's Paradise Coast website, which is really the convention visitor bureau.

[5:15:50] Calier County currently has about 90 golf courses.

[5:15:53] So for market analysis, these courses can really be grouped into three distinct categories.

[5:15:58] By far, the largest is what I call a gate of community, which represents about 63 of those properties.

[5:16:04] Here, golf is integrated into a master plan residential community.

[5:16:09] The golf course is generally intended to support

[5:16:11] and enhance residential real estate values,

[5:16:14] rather than operate solely as a stand-alone club.

[5:16:18] The next category is public courses.

[5:16:21] There's currently seven courses.

[5:16:22] That'd be, of course, like lately,

[5:16:25] high-business.

[5:16:26] Those are operated primarily to provide public access

[5:16:28] golf, and, again, access is available without recording

[5:16:32] membership.

[5:16:32] And then the final category is what we're terming high-end private golf clubs, of which there were 10 clubs in Calier County.

[5:16:39] Here golf is primarily the primary purpose of the development.

[5:16:44] Membership access is limited and that depend on owning a residence within the community.

[5:16:49] In the research that I have done, there is approximately 700 members,

[5:16:54] or I should say individuals trying to gain access to membership to one of these clubs.

[5:16:59] So right now, if you look at the marketplace for those 10 clubs, there's approximately 700 people trying to get in.

[5:17:06] The shortest waiting list probably is somewhere around 2 to 3 years.

[5:17:11] The average initiation fee currently for those 10 clubs is approximately 355,000 compared to 187,000, 3 to 4 years ago.

[5:17:20] So you've seen an increase of initiation about 89%.

[5:17:24] If I throw the high and the low out of the number, the average initiation fee right now is

[5:17:28] 303,000 compared to 174, 3 to 4 years ago, and increases 74%.

[5:17:34] So in summary, there is a strong demand here for golf.

[5:17:39] There is extended weightiness, and there's significant growth in initiation fees, which

[5:17:44] indicates a substantial undemanned demand for another high end private golf club.

[5:17:49] So at that, I'll turn it over to Tim, or I'll say Alan.

[5:18:09] Good afternoon, commissioners.

[5:18:11] My name is Al Dardi.

[5:18:13] I've lived in South Florida for 46 years.

[5:18:17] I've worked in the real estate development business for 46 years, both in the public and private sector.

[5:18:27] Through those years, I've seen all sides of the road from the technical side of engineering,

[5:18:35] whether it was the firm I had going down to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina doing

[5:18:40] technical engineering work, land planning, architecture, marketing, sales.

[5:18:47] I've covered every aspect of this business from the private sector.

[5:18:52] Land development has been something that's been at the core of a lot of my work.

[5:18:59] My passion has always been sustainable development.

[5:19:03] As an 18-year-old, I came down to Florida, Naples, on Spring Break.

[5:19:09] I came home, I told my mother, as soon as I get out of high school, and a few months

[5:19:13] I'm moving down to South Florida.

[5:19:16] I got here and I was fortunate enough to go to work at WCI communities where I had no idea

[5:19:22] what land development was, but I needed a job, and I ended up working in the 600-acre

[5:19:30] mangrove preserve with some of the finest biologists in the world as we blasted tidal ditches

[5:19:37] and recreated wetlands and remastered water management areas and I became infactuated

[5:19:44] and just completely enamored with why this was actually a good thing that if I put my life's

[5:19:51] work into it it would create great value for the state of Florida and that's been my passion all

[5:19:57] way through. I worked at WCI communities for 21 years. During that time we were building a number

[5:20:03] of golf courses. I'm going to talk about Audubon International at the end because it's part of

[5:20:11] summarizing some of the things that I hope to accomplish in my role in this project.

[5:20:18] So I worked at WCI communities for 21 years. I was involved. I ended up being the vice-president

[5:20:23] development over seeing the development of 15 master plan communities throughout Southwest Florida and some others outside this market in Florida

[5:20:31] From there I had my own firm for for 10 years in real estate

[5:20:35] Development business the downturn at 207 made it a little difficult there so I was very fortunate with the friends

[5:20:43] I had made in the industry that I was able to go and work for Secretary of Hershel vineyard at the Department of Environmental Protection

[5:20:53] My job there was Deputy Secretary of Land.

[5:20:56] My responsibilities there were that overseeing the Division of State Lands.

[5:21:03] I was the chair of the Florida Forever Program where the State would buy conservation land.

[5:21:09] The State group that worked with me also oversaw about 80,000 acres a year in controlled burns

[5:21:17] maintenance of state owned lands was also over the department of parks. We had 171 parks

[5:21:25] at that time at a staff of biologists. My learning curve through that process was something

[5:21:33] I'll never forget. I mean that in the most positive way. The other thing that I did at the

[5:21:39] DEP I was the liaison between the governor's office and the cabinet members for the board of

[5:21:47] I worked with all the cabinet members in the Governor's office, their staffs, their consultants, etc.

[5:21:55] On the issues that were facing the Board of Trustees on a monthly basis.

[5:21:59] From there I met Sid Kitsen and I went to work for Kitsen and Partners, which I just retired in December of 25.

[5:22:07] It was there for 14 years.

[5:22:10] The last five years I was said to Chief Operating Officer, I was at Babcock Ranch the

[5:22:17] day we broke around and in a few short years we created a sustainable city with a population

[5:22:22] of about 15,000 people.

[5:22:26] one of the incredible things that I had, the great pleasure of working with.

[5:22:30] Working with SID and at Babcock was a gave me an opportunity to expand my passion for sustainable development.

[5:22:39] SID would always sit down and say, how we can't be afraid to make a mistake because that's how other people learn.

[5:22:45] So we had a lot of success. We made some mistakes. We learned from the mistakes.

[5:22:50] And we're open to talking to people about it because we want the model of Babcock Ranch sustainability.

[5:22:57] to be something that people across the United States, not just our local market can learn from.

[5:23:04] So it was a tremendous experience.

[5:23:09] One of the things I also took out a Babcock because there is 6 million square feet of commercial.

[5:23:15] It's not finished yet, but sustainability is not just taking a piece of land.

[5:23:21] that's already in a state where it could be preserved.

[5:23:26] It's working with complex land development programs

[5:23:31] that create a place to live, work and play for a population,

[5:23:36] making that sustainable is an art unto itself.

[5:23:40] Anyway, enough of my background.

[5:23:44] On this project in particular,

[5:23:47] autobunternational,

[5:23:48] I had the great fortune of doing 12 autobond gold courses with autobond international.

[5:23:57] When we started I met Ron Dotson who at the time was the founder and the CEO of autobond

[5:24:04] international.

[5:24:06] We had so much work over the years.

[5:24:08] Ron and I became great friends and I learned an awful lot from Ron.

[5:24:14] Probably the most important thing was he said,

[5:24:19] you have to get the plan right right from the beginning.

[5:24:25] And I know that sounds obvious.

[5:24:27] Start right, you can't finish right.

[5:24:31] And I knew this philosophy from the master plan community work I was doing,

[5:24:37] but to talk about it in the sense of sustainability,

[5:24:41] it made even more sense why.

[5:24:42] Because in the 90s, when sustainability started to become something that everybody was catching

[5:24:50] on to, the trouble that it had at that point was the economics were difficult, materials

[5:24:58] were difficult, they were expensive, recycled carpet if you're doing a building, the principles

[5:25:02] of sustainability, the water management systems, people sort of poo-hooed the beginning of it,

[5:25:09] which was a shame because of the cost.

[5:25:11] So I'd always hoped to overcome the cost issue and prove that sustainability can make economic

[5:25:18] sense because the more that happens, the more people are going to pick up and do sustainable

[5:25:21] projects.

[5:25:23] We were able to do that at Babcock Ranch.

[5:25:27] So when I was learning from Ron, start right.

[5:25:30] So on this project, our goal is to sit down from the very beginning with the Audubant team

[5:25:37] and are complete team of professionals, the owner, and lay out this program as many times

[5:25:45] as it takes to get the right plan.

[5:25:48] To get the right plan to treat the water right, reduce water quality to get to have less

[5:25:57] turf, less fertilizer.

[5:26:00] One of the biggest opportunities we have here on this project because we're not building a bunch

[5:26:06] homes in and around the golf course is in the layout. As Rich mentioned, there's a couple

[5:26:12] of preserves that we're keeping on the property. But if you look at the perimeter of the property,

[5:26:18] there's some great vegetation, natural vegetation, is to pull that into the project. I call it the zipper.

[5:26:28] The zipper is the edge of the conservation area with the development project that you're doing.

[5:26:33] And, instead of going along the edge of the golf course between the edge of the golf course and the surrounding conservation area,

[5:26:43] and I jokingly say this and going to Lowes Garden Center and buying 53 varieties of pretty plants,

[5:26:52] the idea here is very simple, create what mother nature has already given us and enhance it and make it better.

[5:26:59] There's so many things you can do that are meaningful in terms of recreating the habitat.

[5:27:06] For example, I'm a tremendous advocate.

[5:27:09] I've planted 100,000 small pine trees at Babcock Ranch.

[5:27:14] When people saw that, they kind of laughed in the beginning because a lot of them were that big.

[5:27:19] Well, three years down the road, there are six, eight feet tall.

[5:27:22] And you can reforist areas using minimal species of landscaping, small landscaping, and high-numbers, pine trees, wax murdals, palm meadows,

[5:27:35] stable palms and oaks, native grasses.

[5:27:38] Very simple palette.

[5:27:40] That's what Mother Nature gave us.

[5:27:42] Let's utilize what Mother Nature gave us and bring us in.

[5:27:45] The project also has a benefit in terms of a fire break.

[5:27:53] I won't mention the name of the project, but one comes to mind that gave me an incredible amount

[5:28:01] of confidence that we could do a lot of good through redevelopment with sensitive areas.

[5:28:07] There was a project we did, I will say it was at WCI, where we had its surrounding communities.

[5:28:14] the all the runoff before we started our project was going down to one of the

[5:28:21] estuaries. So it was creating a water quality problem.

[5:28:27] Through the design of the

[5:28:28] course, through the water management, the use of the total plantings and a whole

[5:28:32] host of other sustainable practices, working with autobond international, we

[5:28:36] committed to a program that would improve the water quality greatly and we

[5:28:43] achieve. Great results with that. I'm very, very, very confident that in this project,

[5:28:49] we can achieve great environmental goals, take a piece of property that's already been

[5:28:54] been cleared. We're not clearing the, proposing to clear the preserve areas. Again, another

[5:29:00] thing we did at Bapcock, we used areas that were already cleared. This is sustainable. Our

[5:29:06] goal, as we finish this project, is to create an example of what sustainable redevelopment

[5:29:12] can be. And I have no doubt in my mind that we can accomplish that on this project and look

[5:29:18] forward to being a part of it. Thank you.

[5:29:31] So in conclusion, both your staff and the Planning Commission recommended approval of both

[5:29:37] growth management and the proposed PD. I think it's clear that this golf course is low

[5:29:48] intensity is environmentally friendly and it's going to maintain the character that's in the immediate area.

[5:29:56] We're preserving substantial open space.

[5:30:00] Preserving, basically, all of the native education that exists on the site. Today, we're consistent with the golf course standards, and the role friends to make sure you use district land use category in your comprehensive plan in your land development code.

[5:30:15] As Al, elaborated, we, the Audubon international signature sanctuary certification, gold level is an environmentally friendly standard, and it's your standard.

[5:30:28] It has a minimum impact less than 1% on cardiovascular work, and it's consistent with the gross

[5:30:37] method.

[5:30:38] Once we have this amendment, it'd be consistent with the gross management plan and land development

[5:30:43] code.

[5:30:46] With that, that's our presentation about our proposed golf course with the additional commitments

[5:30:53] that we've made with regard to the culverts under stable palm road, as well as the system

[5:31:00] with the project that I can't remember the name of the member.

[5:31:07] Yeah.

[5:31:08] You see.

[5:31:10] We'll remember when it comes time, yeah.

[5:31:13] Thank you.

[5:31:13] The guest there.

[5:31:14] Chamber and dough.

[5:31:15] We'll assist with that project as well.

[5:31:20] So there are environmental benefits to reducing, as well as the air is in benefit to the community

[5:31:25] through these additional commitments to assist with water management in the area.

[5:31:30] But that where the team is here can answer any questions you may have with regard to the proposed golf course.

[5:31:38] And if I haven't made it clear, it's just golf course.

[5:31:41] We have no intentions.

[5:31:43] We're doing a residential development.

[5:31:45] And we're not trying to be a live local project.

[5:31:47] And we're not bringing a commercial to a residential area.

[5:31:52] Mr. Sawyer.

[5:31:52] Just a couple of quick questions, and you may already have this in there and I apologize if I just didn't catch it. How many members are we are we are anticipating somewhere between 275 and 325?

[5:32:07] Well, let's just say it's around 300.

[5:32:10] I always like to ask them a little higher, but

[5:32:14] And I think you'll find it.

[5:32:16] Of course, it's like this.

[5:32:18] That's not a lot of members. You can basically walk on to play.

[5:32:21] And then in terms of what could be built there today, in terms of residential units, how many units?

[5:32:28] I guess it's a one unit per 20.

[5:32:30] It's actually because it's used to be one per five.

[5:32:33] And then the Royal French Miss used to just move it to one per 40.

[5:32:36] One per 40.

[5:32:37] That would be four.

[5:32:39] I'd be four.

[5:32:39] With big yards.

[5:32:41] Two yards.

[5:32:42] Huge yards with.

[5:32:44] And then questioned for the county attorney.

[5:32:47] There was an indication that there may be a willingness to put a deed restriction or something

[5:32:53] in to prohibit the use of live local.

[5:32:57] Is that something that we can legally do, is that that be binding on a future buyer or

[5:33:03] the property or a future potential use?

[5:33:07] Well, if you have a book and consense to it, yes.

[5:33:10] Would you want to eliminate the issue entirely, just agree with the residential portion?

[5:33:16] It was just golf course they couldn't live in the right place.

[5:33:20] That makes sense.

[5:33:21] That's all I just had a couple of questions.

[5:33:24] Mr. Castro.

[5:33:26] Thank you, Chairman.

[5:33:27] I have some questions, but I'd like them to be answered by staff.

[5:33:29] Not by the applicant.

[5:33:30] So if Mr. Bozzy, if you could come forward, please.

[5:33:34] And ask one quick question while he's still there.

[5:33:36] And Mr. Cook, if I ask a conservation car,

[5:33:39] or question, and you think you have a better answer than Mr. Bozzy,

[5:33:41] then maybe beyond that if you want to thank you.

[5:33:45] Thank you.

[5:33:47] As far as the housing goes,

[5:33:52] correct, good answer.

[5:33:54] As far as the housing goes,

[5:33:57] you can voluntarily stipulate to the deed restriction,

[5:34:01] but would a deed restriction disallow any increase in

[5:34:06] to do the same thing. Mr. Clouds go.

[5:34:11] It gives you a reason.

[5:34:13] Okay. He was a paying attention.

[5:34:14] proceed. I'll ask my question again.

[5:34:16] I'll ask you one question before you leave.

[5:34:18] So on the ten cottages, if that was something that.

[5:34:21] And I know you don't have blue prints on the golf course,

[5:34:24] but the oven idea, any idea what kind of footprint that would eat up on the total acreage.

[5:34:28] We're talking about basically a four bedroom residence.

[5:34:32] Yeah, but ten of them.

[5:34:33] Ten, yes.

[5:34:34] But we haven't laid, we're not even sure we're gonna do the cottages.

[5:34:39] Neither am I.

[5:34:41] Okay.

[5:34:42] Let me ask Mr. Bozzi.

[5:34:44] So we'll get back to you.

[5:34:45] Yeah.

[5:34:45] I don't mean to be a physician.

[5:34:47] And I wasn't here.

[5:34:48] I mean, there are a lot of these golf courses have one, two, five.

[5:34:53] Because their members come and they can stay there.

[5:34:56] Absolutely.

[5:34:57] I guess I don't want to jump ahead, but the reason I asked that is

[5:35:02] Hypothetically, if we were trying to maximize as much green space as possible as much wild

[5:35:07] life area as possible, if you take a look at whatever the footprint is for 10, 4 bedroom

[5:35:12] cottages and the driveways and the golf course, car pads and whatnot, and let's just

[5:35:17] say, for argument, all that stuff disappeared.

[5:35:19] Number one, it helps us much, it basically makes live local go away, so that's one thing,

[5:35:25] but it also opens up a more green space and acreage that what you truly do have is a golf

[5:35:30] course, that is fully green. And as the sun goes down, all the golfers have to leave. And so, you know, I mean, I, like I said, I don't want to jump, but maybe, maybe it's something for you to just think about, if we have people that are living on the golf course, I mean, I live on Marco Island and one of the big issues is lights at night that affect the turtles. We don't have turtles out there. But if you had a bunch of people in these 10 cottages, all spent in the night, I'm sure they're not going to be locked in their room with black shades closed and they're all going to be sleeping at 830 at night. So, you know, you know, they're all going to be sleeping at 830 at night.

[5:36:00] So there's going to be people out there enjoying the golf course, and I'm just wondering

[5:36:04] how that all affects.

[5:36:05] So that might be something for the environmentalists that you on that, how would that affect

[5:36:11] things?

[5:36:11] I mean, I really want to dissect the different pieces and some of them might not be overwhelming

[5:36:18] really positive if we take it away or put it, but it all sort of adds up, so we'll get back

[5:36:24] to that.

[5:36:25] But I want to ask Mr. Bozi some things.

[5:36:27] So Mr. Rosie, we all got quite a few emails from a lot of citizens, a lot of them, the exact same email, which is fine.

[5:36:35] I've said before, I appreciate any kind of citizen input.

[5:36:39] But I sort of cobbled together five or six questions that pretty much everybody had.

[5:36:44] You and Ms. Cook answered some of them for me, but they need to be answered in this forum.

[5:36:49] It might actually help citizens who are going to come up to the podium that might ask this exact question

[5:36:54] or make this exact statement, it might change what they say or not, based on what you said.

[5:37:01] So, you know, one of the big questions from the vast majority of people, it says, you know,

[5:37:05] that they oppose the Sable Palm Golf Course Subjust District, and that asks that we vote

[5:37:10] no on the request to remove the Sable Palm parcel from the rural fringe mixed-used district

[5:37:17] to allow our private course, yada, yada, yada, kind of thing.

[5:37:20] So that's the statement, you know, no question in there.

[5:37:22] My question is, by doing that, and I sort of asked this earlier when we were talking about a different issue.

[5:37:30] And changing the growth management plan. How big of a heavy left is that by removing that from the RFMUD, as we say,

[5:37:40] what would you say in your assessment and as more, you know, for the crowd, is that, would you consider that a pretty big muscle movement?

[5:37:48] Mike Bozzi, planning and zoning director, and as the board stated earlier, any time that you

[5:37:55] amend the growth management plan, it is an elevated, it's one of the highest burdens

[5:38:01] that you can cross in terms of modifications to local regulations.

[5:38:06] So it is a significant change in relationship to the rural fringe mixed yeast district.

[5:38:12] It's over 65,000 acres in total, so in retrospect, in terms of the 169 acres, in that regard,

[5:38:21] it's a small percentage of the overall of the overall acreage associated with it.

[5:38:27] But it is a growth management plan, a amendment.

[5:38:29] What I would say is this proposal compared to going to the residential of 423,

[5:38:36] is golf course zoning is within your open space,

[5:38:41] within your open space zoning districts.

[5:38:43] So this is a, this is a, a use set is in line with that,

[5:38:47] in line with the World Friends McEuse District of being

[5:38:51] in open space and being part of the, the, the,

[5:38:55] the setting area which really wants to promote

[5:38:57] low density and provide for wildlife corridors.

[5:39:01] This is an alignment with the overall purpose of what the,

[5:39:05] of what the rural French McHugh's district sending area is providing for.

[5:39:13] So in that regard, any time you amend the growth management plan, it is a high bar, but

[5:39:19] in terms of what's being proposed in relationship to what it's replacing, it is both of open

[5:39:32] a lot of pervious surfaces for what a recharge and for when that in that respect I think

[5:39:40] it is a much better proposal than what the alternative was when they had originally proposed

[5:39:44] to you.

[5:39:45] I don't want to put words in your mouth but compared to other times when we where this has

[5:39:49] come up this is you would say is a closer match to and a little bit of a lighter jump than

[5:39:57] in some other times where this question you know this request has come up and it was a huge

[5:40:01] lead. I would agree that it's in better alignment with with with with with the direction that the

[5:40:09] the this the sitting area provide. Okay. This was on a lot of eleven notes a big a bold statement.

[5:40:15] It might not be something maybe it's something that we we Jamie Cook answers, but it says the entire

[5:40:21] project site is 100 percent primary zone Florida Panther habitat and 100 percent adult breeding habitat.

[5:40:30] One of the things we've said in this room before here when sometimes speakers an even environmental

[5:40:36] experts come to the podium and they say this is an environmental habitat and this is a preserve

[5:40:43] wilderness or whatnot. Sometimes we've had experts come up and say you've got to be careful

[5:40:49] throwing those terms around because an actual panther preserve it's usually designated officially

[5:40:56] And you know it has it has a more official connotation just because a panther walked across

[5:41:02] a field doesn't mean it's a panther preserve but having said that the specificity that came

[5:41:07] to all of us by a lot of folks and some folks that you know this is what they do for a living

[5:41:13] said the entire project site is 100% primary zone flared up panther habitat and 100% adult breeding

[5:41:22] ground habitat, adult breeding habitat, what significant documented panther climate

[5:41:27] tree on site. Is that something we can confirm? I'm a 100%. I don't think anything that

[5:41:33] just has grass and trees on it is a 100% primary zone panther habitat. So is that something

[5:41:40] Jamie maybe you can separate remember from fact or at least define that for us?

[5:41:45] Sure. Good afternoon, commissioners. Jamie Cook, your director of development review for the

[5:41:49] So, the property is in the primary panther habitat zone, which is areas that are designated

[5:41:57] predominantly for panther-dening, feeding, hunting grounds, but especially the denning.

[5:42:06] Panthers don't typically den in orange groves that they're in the wetland habitats.

[5:42:12] So, while this is within the zone, the primary zone, it's not what they would typically utilize

[5:42:18] for dending, for cubs, juveniles, and things like that.

[5:42:23] With your professional opinion of running conservation

[5:42:26] and call your forests, if that property

[5:42:29] trans, then like you said, maybe the orange grove isn't

[5:42:31] perfect habitat, but if it transition from an orange grove

[5:42:35] to the scoff course that's been described, do you think

[5:42:38] that the habitat would be more favorable?

[5:42:41] You know, it's a panthers if it was designed correctly,

[5:42:44] because we know that with the orange grove is,

[5:42:45] and the orange grove owner isn't going to modify

[5:42:48] there aren't the orange Grove to make it more panther friendly. Could the golf course have

[5:42:55] architectural features to it that would make it even more attractive to, you know, in your opinion?

[5:43:03] I mean, absolutely. This, this parcel is going to predominantly be used for panther migration

[5:43:08] and movement through the area. When you look at the habitat zones, it's done on a large scale basis.

[5:43:15] it's not done a lot by lot, so they're not going zooming in and looking at each individual

[5:43:22] a lot when they establish the primary and secondary habitat. They're looking at it on a large

[5:43:27] scale landscape level basis. So the panthers, whether this is an orange grover or golf course,

[5:43:34] are still going to be able to traverse the property and get potentially from the OSE and decide

[5:43:40] to the Piquillian side and vice versa.

[5:43:43] You're knowing that that map, that aerial very well and all the properties that have

[5:43:49] environmental significance and this one obviously does, you know, another question here was,

[5:43:54] this parcel is surrounded by permanent conservation on all sides, making intensification

[5:43:59] to a golf course development incompatible.

[5:44:02] So when I got that from quite a few citizens when we all did, my first thought, but I want

[5:44:08] to confirm or deny this. I'm not sure it's surrounded on all sides, but maybe it is.

[5:44:15] But I also know having worked closely with you on Conservation Collier and also Ms. Cook

[5:44:19] was in all the meetings that we had with people who thought they were going to buy the property,

[5:44:24] had a better idea, all the environmental groups that came in and were trying to shake the trees

[5:44:28] for donors and whatnot. So you've been with me on this one since day one. But hearing that,

[5:44:33] the parcels surrounded by permanent conservation on all sides.

[5:44:37] So the inference there is that,

[5:44:40] wow, you have this choice piece of property

[5:44:41] that all around it is this highly coveted conservation

[5:44:46] on every single side.

[5:44:48] Is that how you would classify it?

[5:44:50] So on, I believe it was Alexis that had stayed

[5:44:53] at this earlier to the West and South

[5:44:57] are conservation easements owned by Asyanda Lakes.

[5:44:59] Thank you.

[5:45:00] Secondary private conservation easings. So, the east is picky, unstrand state forest. So, yes, the surrounding lands are conserved.

[5:45:12] And this is just the postage stamp sort of right in the middle sort of correct? Yeah.

[5:45:17] Okay. All right. Yeah. And then let's see.

[5:45:20] to the north.

[5:45:21] Sending light.

[5:45:22] Here's another question.

[5:45:23] And is by from Mr. Bozi.

[5:45:24] Sending lands undermines the entire transfer

[5:45:27] of development rights, TDRs, framework across the county.

[5:45:31] What's your comment to that, Mr. Bozi?

[5:45:35] Sending the rural French McChief District,

[5:45:37] sending lands are the area that you send your development

[5:45:41] away from.

[5:45:43] So I don't think it undermines it's one of the basis

[5:45:46] for the rural French McChief District.

[5:45:48] It's identifying the more environmentally sensitive areas

[5:45:51] and to send development, take development rates

[5:45:54] from those areas in place, in the receiving areas,

[5:45:59] which are deemed, have been deemed

[5:46:00] to be less environmentally sensitive, more appropriate

[5:46:02] for development.

[5:46:05] It's one of the basic components of a world-fringe,

[5:46:08] or a transfer of development rates program.

[5:46:13] You can't have a TDR program without any lens.

[5:46:16] So it's essential to a TDR program.

[5:46:18] it's essential to the world for each mixed use.

[5:46:20] And having said that, the conversation that has happened up

[5:46:23] until this point, even out of first meeting

[5:46:24] at the Planning Commission meeting is, I may not,

[5:46:27] I'll guess I'll simplify it, is that these lands

[5:46:30] were never characterized correctly.

[5:46:33] You know, what's your comment to that?

[5:46:35] You know, I know, I'm sorry.

[5:46:37] And sorry, I didn't mean to admit to speak over you.

[5:46:40] I think what Ms. Cook said was the landscape scale

[5:46:44] of how they assessed the original 77,000 acres

[5:46:47] of rural French mixed use. District was not partial, but it was mild quadrant, but mild quadrant.

[5:46:56] So this 169 acres was evaluated based upon the surrounding properties, and those surrounding

[5:47:05] properties did have environmental sensitivity qualities that would suggest that

[5:47:09] Sinyland was appropriate. I think at the time, if the owner had petitioned the Board of

[5:47:14] and commissions within the first year

[5:47:16] that the real infringement she's just

[5:47:17] who was established, and it was a process

[5:47:21] that was identified to ask out of it

[5:47:24] that because it was utilized as a citrus farm,

[5:47:29] they could say that there's no native vegetation

[5:47:31] on this property for the most part.

[5:47:34] It's a working farm is not environmentally sensitive.

[5:47:37] It may be surrounded by environmentally sensitive lands.

[5:47:40] So I think that they would have the probability

[5:47:43] of having this parcel taken out of the rural French mixed use district would have been high

[5:47:48] at the time because it was a working farm and a working farm is not considered environmentally sensitive.

[5:47:54] Okay, and then this is more of a combination of just a lot of different questions,

[5:47:57] but people were really concerned about hydrology and fire management,

[5:48:01] you know, I just sort of summarize here the parcel sits in an area that borders the Peking

[5:48:07] and Strand State Forest intensive turf management and lodging conflict directly with watershed

[5:48:12] rehydration and state mandated prescribed burn operations. What would be your comment to that?

[5:48:21] Is this parcel of that sensitive to different? And we'll hear from the applicant a little bit more in hydrology and water drainage and all of that. But between that and fire management, we got a lot of notes from citizens that were concerned about controlled burns. And if this was a golf course, you know, the kind of things that would happen and how it affect the community.

[5:48:41] What what's your what can you add to I would say that this is a this is a

[5:48:47] This is a partial that would be concerned about to wildfires and control board

[5:48:51] Obviously or are something that are planned by the the the individual districts and that they have a a little bit better

[5:48:58] Management of but if it was a wildfire

[5:49:00] There could be there could be damage that could be associated because of where it sits because it sits within an

[5:49:06] development portion, like to the east, is the picking

[5:49:10] used during state force to the west, and to the south,

[5:49:15] are preserved land from Hoth's end, so if it's a wildfire,

[5:49:18] it would be more susceptible to damage from that wildfire.

[5:49:25] But the one thing about this proposal is they're

[5:49:28] not proposing any residential development.

[5:49:30] They are 10 transient lodging facilities,

[5:49:34] But in terms of the the overall impact that wildfire would have upon this location it could be it could be

[5:49:41] Substantial, but it's not really structures. It's more of it. It's impacted golf course in the the holes within that golf course

[5:49:48] So yeah, but where it sits it

[5:49:51] You know wild wildfires will be something of a primary concern for how they designed this course in how they have the water

[5:49:58] Manning the water management system and how that we're how they place that

[5:50:02] Mr. Cook, lastly, how did it score for Conservation

[5:50:05] Collier?

[5:50:05] Because we sort of forced the issue, but I at least felt

[5:50:09] like it was worth running it to the finish line,

[5:50:12] so that if we made a command decision here

[5:50:15] that it wasn't worth the $2,000 investment

[5:50:17] to do the appraisal where we would get spares thrown out.

[5:50:20] It says, wow, I bet if you would have done the appraisal,

[5:50:22] maybe you would have taken them out,

[5:50:24] and we talked quite a bit about this in these private meetings

[5:50:27] that we had with the group, and it was, you know what?

[5:50:30] Let's make the investment so we either pursue or exhaust all possible options.

[5:50:35] And I feel like we certainly did that and then some, but can you give us a little synopsis

[5:50:39] of when we, when we made you, you know, move forward and it wasn't the owner, you know,

[5:50:45] the owner did take our recommendation and say, you know, apply for it.

[5:50:48] So we can at least rule this in or out or maybe it appraises at a, at a figure that maybe

[5:50:53] does attract you or what not, can you tell us sort of in summary the process that you went

[5:50:59] through and how it scored.

[5:51:02] Sure, so at the May 12th, BCC meeting, we brought this to you as for consideration for conservation

[5:51:09] call your.

[5:51:10] When staffed at our initial review of the property, we actually ranked it on the do not

[5:51:15] acquire a list for several reasons.

[5:51:19] The first being that there's a very low native vegetation on the property.

[5:51:26] I know the report says there's about 22 acres but by our land development code definition

[5:51:32] there's actually only about three acres of 169 that would be considered native for preservation

[5:51:38] purposes. So most of that native vegetation was actually full of exotics that would have to

[5:51:44] be removed. Some of the other staff concerns that we raised were environmental cleanup of the

[5:51:51] after 50 years of farming, as well as it would be financially very difficult to restore that property to what most people would consider for conservation

[5:52:04] call your land. The advisory committee did rank it on the A list mostly because of the wildlife utilization and the potential for restoration.

[5:52:15] And if only a small amount of acres are really conducive to a bald life because of certain

[5:52:21] vegetation and why not, then when you look at that footprint as a whole, is it really,

[5:52:26] I don't want to say, is it really that valuable?

[5:52:28] I don't want to use the wrong words, so...

[5:52:30] So let you make answer in a much better way, but is that whole footprint really of a super significant use and value of wildlife.

[5:52:42] Stuff always cuts through empty land. So I mean, you know, everybody sees something, but also to, as you've said here before, when we've considered conservation, higher properties.

[5:52:53] at times you say, you know, this one is a minimal cut through because it's wetlands and the

[5:53:00] panthers aren't going to walk through wetlands or it doesn't really have the shade, the

[5:53:05] trees, the hiding from predators and whatnot. So they'll tend to walk around this.

[5:53:10] What's your assessment having seen the area of this of the value as to the weight that

[5:53:16] it would really carry for wildlife usage, the way it sits now?

[5:53:20] I think you, you hit it pretty much head on. I mean, it's going to be a property that animals

[5:53:24] are going to traverse through. It's not going to be nusting or dending habitat with the exception

[5:53:31] of maybe some gators getting into some of the ditches at some points in time, but for habitat

[5:53:37] for dending nusting, things like that, very minimal. I really want to thank you for not only how

[5:53:44] much you can work with this group as we try to exhaust every possible option, but the sense of

[5:53:50] emergency, you have this feed to get us the answers to talk with the owner and everything like that.

[5:53:55] I mean, you certainly made this a top priority as we had requested and you know, and that was obvious.

[5:54:01] And so we're at the point that we're at now.

[5:54:03] So, and that's all I have for now.

[5:54:05] I will have some questions for Mr.

[5:54:07] Avonovich, but we'll wait till he comes back up.

[5:54:10] Not now.

[5:54:11] I will.

[5:54:12] Some other commissioners might have some questions for Mr. Bozy.

[5:54:14] Mr. Saunders.

[5:54:16] I did have a quick question for Mr. Avonovich before we do the public comment.

[5:54:22] Obviously, traffic is always an issue.

[5:54:23] I know you've got your traffic counts and everything there.

[5:54:26] Question is, and it's private course like this,

[5:54:28] which will be an exclusive course.

[5:54:31] About how many rounds of golf on a busy day

[5:54:34] would typically be expected?

[5:54:36] And I know you have to keep a limit on that.

[5:54:39] Well, on a typical busy day.

[5:54:41] Busy day.

[5:54:43] At a course like this, you're talking 70 to 90 rounds of golf.

[5:54:46] Thank you.

[5:54:46] And I just wanted to point out, there's about 150 cars

[5:54:49] today coming to the existing fruit stand and

[5:54:54] vegetable stand. So been there many times

[5:54:56] myself. Right. So so you're probably talking

[5:54:58] about comparable traffic. And if I might

[5:55:01] I just wanted to point out something in

[5:55:03] that in our PUD, we have a requirement to have a

[5:55:07] wildfire management plan as a part of the

[5:55:09] development of this project. So I just wanted

[5:55:11] to make sure you're aware of that

[5:55:13] commercial capital. Which that property

[5:55:14] doesn't have now. It doesn't it doesn't

[5:55:16] have now. And I also wanted to point out

[5:55:19] that our habitat is no different than verona walks habitat was.

[5:55:23] When verona walk was approved as far as it was also primary

[5:55:28] panther habitat and that's many homes that we're talking about.

[5:55:33] Ten transient cottages so from an impact we're far less impactful

[5:55:40] to primary panther habitat and also I think Mike said or it was with

[5:55:48] who said that the golf course actually will act like a fire break or for what's on the other side

[5:55:54] of it. So it's not going to be a home, I can't wait for home. That was could potentially

[5:56:00] be in harm's way. And I didn't mean to interrupt you, Chris, or Saunders, do you have

[5:56:03] other questions?

[5:56:04] No, I'm just kind of curious.

[5:56:07] If it plays the chairman just while you're, while you're, and I know somebody else is lit up,

[5:56:10] but just while we're talking traffic, you didn't touch on your possible improvement of

[5:56:16] stable palm road say this was past you know you talked about how you

[5:56:20] improved the the footprint in the acreage and all that is there any

[5:56:23] doing that would would change stable palm road. I'm sorry there

[5:56:28] wouldn't be a need to do that for this project you know if we were doing

[5:56:32] the the 400 plus homes we were going to if we have to make improvements to

[5:56:38] stable palm from work currently ends to our entrance we'll do that but we're

[5:56:43] currently right now we don't think we'll need to. Thank you sir. Other than the

[5:56:47] underground drainage and possible system to bring the water from the other

[5:56:52] and after that all comes. You're trying to make sure, Tim or Indo, if

[5:56:55] Tim or Indo brings their water to some sort of, they'll do that. They're going to bring

[5:57:00] it to us and we'll take it through, or I'm also talking about the two larger

[5:57:05] culverts. So we don't have any water on the other side, nor side of it, say, I was thinking

[5:57:10] the pavement area. We were not going to widen the pavement or bring sidewalks, but

[5:57:14] Yes, where we have to build the UNF to improve so that we will have to do some well

[5:57:19] probably cut part of the road to put in the culverts, I'll let JD answer them more

[5:57:23] specifically, but as a whole, there will not be improvements by us to stable palm.

[5:57:30] If it has to be improved because Tamarindow brings their water and they put pipes in there

[5:57:34] then they'll obviously replace whatever the damage they did to you haven't had conversations

[5:57:39] with Tamarindow.

[5:57:40] I have, I have, I actually, I have, I believe we're not, but reached out to me, and I said to

[5:57:48] them, we could work with them if that becomes a solution to their current state.

[5:57:58] Mr. McGregor.

[5:57:59] Yes.

[5:58:00] And, and, if you would just clarify the wildfire management plan, is that the notification

[5:58:06] to your membership that this is an area that's conducive to wildfires?

[5:58:11] I think that is all over that as well as I think you can land there's certain landscaping

[5:58:17] that you put close to like the clubhouse and things like that but we're happy to provide

[5:58:21] an notification to all of our members that there's good control burns in the area we've done

[5:58:26] you know for sure we've done we did that at Belmar and Longwater out there at Big Cyprus and

[5:58:32] next to the Panther preserve right and I just wanted to clarify happy to provide that notification

[5:58:37] to our members.

[5:58:39] Now, early on, in my earlier discussions, we were talking about the 10 units and quite frankly,

[5:58:49] I mean, we may be able to, these the answer is to make them go away, but I'm not necessarily

[5:58:55] opposed to those 10 transient units, is there something that we can do that would protect

[5:59:03] against expansion, the future residential, presidential development, from a deed restriction standpoint

[5:59:09] if they were to voluntarily consent to that.

[5:59:18] If the goal is to make sure this property does not develop, live, local, the built-in

[5:59:26] suspended approach would be to not approve the homes and restrict the covenant or take

[5:59:32] restriction.

[5:59:37] Before I let everybody go, I just got a couple of quick questions.

[5:59:40] I don't know if it might be for Mr. Hall.

[5:59:42] Is he like kind of your biology, kind of expert?

[5:59:45] Yeah, 10.

[5:59:47] Yeah, Mr. Hall.

[5:59:48] He gets really nervous if you call him this wrong.

[5:59:50] I'm sorry, Jim.

[5:59:52] I might as well throw a couple of questions out to you before.

[5:59:55] Because we're going to do is, after I'm done my questions,

[5:59:57] I'm going to take court report or break.

[5:59:58] You all right, Dave?

[6:00:00] And then we'll get the public comment.

[6:00:03] Real quick, so like I said, the beginning of this whole thing when I laid this all out before, you know, we started this whole hearing process.

[6:00:10] It was basically what we got is a future golf course designed in a way that, you know, the Audubon International, and I heard a lot of good things from the gentleman that is very passionate and seems like he used it with the EPA for many, many years, with the state of Florida, kind of, knows about it, understands it.

[6:00:28] And then a citrus grove that pretty much is dying doesn't have a lot of veggies.

[6:00:33] We found out any as about 3% native vegetation on it actually, no real new vegetation actually growing there.

[6:00:40] About 3 acres.

[6:00:41] It's about 3 acres.

[6:00:42] That would qualify under your code.

[6:00:44] So I'm going to ask you some questions that you're going to do.

[6:00:46] It's like a game show.

[6:00:47] I'm going to say, all right, citrus grove, golf course.

[6:00:51] All right, white-tailed deer, are they more attracted to citrus grove in condition or to

[6:00:57] to this golf course that you're planning on developing.

[6:01:02] Year round attraction would be I would put the golf course ahead of the

[6:01:07] growth. Okay golf course gets more white-tailed deer. How about birds of prey? Like

[6:01:13] ball eagles? Because I know I live behind a golf course on a big set-pon. I actually have

[6:01:18] a family of ball eagles live at the end of the lake and a really enjoy the clear

[6:01:23] pathway to come in and snatch the fish out of the lake. Take it up to the nest and

[6:01:27] their babies and live a happy life that way.

[6:01:30] Well, plus the golf course will have a lake.

[6:01:33] The orange grove doesn't.

[6:01:34] It has ditches.

[6:01:35] They said bald eggs will be more attracted to a golf course or orange

[6:01:39] group.

[6:01:40] Certain raptors like bald eagles, cestrols, caracarras.

[6:01:44] The birds that really like to open areas will be more attracted to the golf course.

[6:01:48] That's good.

[6:01:49] So they might be some potential chances for bald eagles to start nesting their

[6:01:52] starting families.

[6:01:56] about furrow hogs and boars, what are they like to feed on like grobs and stuff like

[6:02:01] it, which is really damp, moist, fresh, green areas, and long fringes of lakes.

[6:02:07] They'll also come in and forage on like the down, if fruit isn't picked and falls on the ground,

[6:02:13] they'll go in and eat the oranges and some of the citrus that lands on the ground as well.

[6:02:18] Okay, so, so primary protein source for portfolio to panther, from what I understand, my

[6:02:28] little researcher did is a white-tailed deer.

[6:02:30] The second is usually hog or furl hog or furl hog, and then kind of go down the list

[6:02:35] to some of the smaller ones.

[6:02:36] But smaller mammals, correct?

[6:02:37] Which would also be more attractive to the golf course, like raccoons, possums.

[6:02:43] Well, it depends on the time of year.

[6:02:45] again, sometimes like raccoons also could be a food source. But yeah, for the panthers.

[6:02:53] Sometimes what the small animals, food source, to get a golf course, and we'll be going to a

[6:02:57] citrus. Well, and that's what I'm saying. Well, rabbits, rabbits, and all yes, could survive well

[6:03:03] on the golf course, and you'll see them on every golf course here in town. Raccoons, at certain

[6:03:08] times of the year, when the fruits right, they like the groves they'll go in and get the fruit out

[6:03:12] the groves as well so they both have some attractions so more likely through all these surrounding

[6:03:20] areas where we do know there's a lot of panther further to the east that once the deer

[6:03:26] understand this golf course is there these hogs understand it understand it's a it's a regular

[6:03:31] food source of to them they'll traverse through those woods on their way over there at night because

[6:03:37] not turn, or even the panthers not not turn, or even the deer feed not turn, or the hogs

[6:03:42] like the not turn, and that's what nobody's on the golf course anyways.

[6:03:47] So they get used to that.

[6:03:47] They actually develop, like I like a mindset saying, you know what?

[6:03:50] This is safe to feed there, and it's abundant with the type of food we like.

[6:03:55] So in reality, we're going to create a greater food source for our panthers that naturally

[6:04:00] survive in the wilderness as around this golf course, for them to choose on to get a high

[6:04:05] protein diet to become more strain and more sustainability just by the golf course

[6:04:10] existing where it exists.

[6:04:12] The golf course can provide a consistent year-round food source for some of the praise

[6:04:17] species for the path there whereas the grove is more of a seasonal food source in a lot of

[6:04:24] cases.

[6:04:25] Thank you so much.

[6:04:26] Thank you.

[6:04:28] Thank you.

[6:04:28] Mr. Hogg, just before we take a break, do you know if any soil samples of the current orange

[6:04:34] have been done, is there anything that your group has done even per

[6:04:37] elementary things to figure out what you're about to inherit and what type of

[6:04:41] remediation might need to be made?

[6:04:45] Okay, so I know there, I believe there was a phase one, environmental assessment

[6:04:48] and also done that was done by by my group or anything, so I don't, I don't have any

[6:04:54] specific details on it.

[6:04:56] Do we have the county?

[6:04:58] Yes, a phase one assessment was done for the property, when it was going through the

[6:05:04] conservation call your process, we did recommend a phase 2 assessment as well.

[6:05:09] If we were to enter into negotiations, but a phase 1 was completed.

[6:05:13] So just understanding the process, depending on what the determination was of the current

[6:05:17] soil status, with the golf course have to, in order for it to meet all of the parameters

[6:05:23] of what would be acceptable, would they have to do some sort of significant remediation

[6:05:28] to get the sort of levels back up to a much, you know, a certain standard that it's not at now.

[6:05:35] So the phase one assessment typically is more of kind of a desktop computer type assessment.

[6:05:41] It looks that uses on the property, historical areas, and things like that.

[6:05:45] And then makes recommendations. That phase two assessment takes those recommendations and actually

[6:05:51] does the sampling. So once you get those results, you know what remediation specifically it would

[6:05:57] And then whatever it is, if it was something significant, and just did go through, there would

[6:06:02] have to accommodate that.

[6:06:04] Correct?

[6:06:04] Correct.

[6:06:05] If I can answer that question for you, we've done so all samples, and it's suitable for

[6:06:10] the golf course to go forward.

[6:06:12] So we're safe.

[6:06:14] It's not like we're hoping that it's all going to be cleaned.

[6:06:17] We've done the sampling.

[6:06:22] All right.

[6:06:23] And then we're questions to the board.

[6:06:24] Let's go ahead and do that court reporter break.

[6:06:26] It's take 15 minutes, I'm back at 3.16 and then we'll go right into public comment.

[6:20:35] Your seats, they're going to get started, Tom, we still what 40 you said or do we change, right?

[6:20:44] I think we added an additional one, so 41.

[6:20:49] All right, everybody go ahead and take your seats, we're going to get started with the public comments on this particular agenda item.

[6:20:56] Once again, I know I saw like a broken record, make sure your phones, because you may have walked outside, use your phone or something,

[6:21:01] I've got to make sure they're on silence and respect the people with the podiums and Tom will

[6:21:05] have you cut off that each podium for a time we keep things moving along, so all right Tom.

[6:21:14] Yes sir, as the chair mentioned, I'll ask in the interest of time if you could queue up that

[6:21:19] both podiums. You'll have three minutes to speak and you'll hear a beep when you have 30 seconds

[6:21:24] remaining. Our first registered speaker is current wager and she will be followed by

[6:21:29] I apologize if I get this wrong. Laura Gelli-Wittick.

[6:21:46] My afternoon commissioners.

[6:21:49] My name is Corin Wager. I'm a retired combat veteran, proud Jewish Zionist, and a member of the Pickle-Wish on E Tribe.

[6:21:55] The area in Brockovich was instrumental in assuming the PGE company for poisoning the town of Hinkley's drinking water with Hexavaila Chromium.

[6:22:03] The case was settled in 1996 for 333 million. The largest settlement ever paid in a direct action lawsuit in the United States history to that date.

[6:22:12] Like Erin Brock of it, I truly care about Call Your County.

[6:22:16] I will fiercely advocate and protect the health of Call Your County residents, our drinking

[6:22:20] water, water sources, ground in service, our natural resources, our land, our wetlands,

[6:22:29] our

[6:22:30] Administration is now putting more than a hundred species at risk by removing protections which allows for harmful

[6:22:35] over-development and toxic Gulf courses. The endangered species at protects millions of acres of

[6:22:41] critical habitat for bears, Florida-pans or alligators, budget-bads, sea turtles, manatees,

[6:22:47] and other plants and animals. These protections is sent to people, enabling them to hike, swim, hunt,

[6:22:52] and fish. The environment is our tourism. There is no good reason for destroying our precious

[6:22:57] land with over-development and toxic Gulf Courses. Gulf Courses use pesticides, herbicides,

[6:23:03] insecticides to maintain turf and control pest at levels up to 15 times higher than those in

[6:23:09] Europe. Chemicals such as two-four, D, chloropypheroes, periquot, manneb, and ruminum, each associated

[6:23:17] with neurodegeneration, have been linked to Parkinson's disease and pesticide-related cancers,

[6:23:22] such as non-hutch-consumphoma, leukemia, and bladder cancer. Workers who can't

[6:23:26] The pale-quot in Rutton have developed Parkinson's rates two to three times higher than those

[6:23:31] workers who have never handled those chemicals.

[6:23:33] Even when the gold standard is utilized, the Journal of American Medical Association demonstrated

[6:23:38] that there is a 126% increase risk of developing this neurodegendative condition with

[6:23:45] inner visuals who reside within one mile of a golf course, significant elevated risk within

[6:23:50] three miles, and water sources that share with a golf course nearby, double the odds of developing

[6:23:56] Parkinson's. Aries with vulnerable groundwater systems, shallow bedrock, poor

[6:24:00] soils, shallow wells, demonstrate an increased risk and spike in developing

[6:24:04] Parkinson's. Golf courses, negatively impact the environment and wildlife

[6:24:10] through groundwater pollution and fertilizers, herbicides and psychedocytes and

[6:24:14] pesticides. Toxins get into your body through contaminated drinking water, airborne

[6:24:18] drift and direct skin contact. This permanently damages the health of animals and

[6:24:24] humans. Natural habitats are diverse ecosystems of biodiversity and

[6:24:28] florida in the fauna. We love our land and we want to preserve all the future

[6:24:34] generations to come. We should keep the looms and zoned for agriculture and

[6:24:39] create community gardens and teaching gardens and farming and conjunction with

[6:24:43] the Botanical Gardens or universities. Say no to any developer, law firm or

[6:24:47] representative who does not fiercely protect and preserve almost precious ecosystems

[6:24:52] Biodiversity are Florida and Fana and most importantly the residents of Clare County, so they know to talk sick golf courses

[6:25:02] No, no plotting please be here. Oh, my

[6:25:07] I keep things moving. Mr. Chair your next registered speaker is Laura Gellie with it

[6:25:13] And she will be followed by I believe this is baby cancer

[6:25:18] I don't see her in the audience we be going

[6:25:21] All right

[6:25:24] And Laura will be followed by Monica Higgins.

[6:25:30] Good afternoon, commissioners.

[6:25:31] Thank you for allowing me this time.

[6:25:33] Don't know how much I can say.

[6:25:34] The lady before me did a beautiful job.

[6:25:37] I wanted to talk about pesticides, et cetera.

[6:25:39] You can't do even near with the good job that she did.

[6:25:43] There's already over 13, I'm sorry, over 1200,

[6:25:46] golf courses in Florida.

[6:25:48] Florida's most cop, of course, in the country.

[6:25:51] The state of Florida has the most golf courses in the whole country.

[6:25:54] We really need another one, and I'm thinking to myself, how many people really have 300,000 just put down and never get it back?

[6:26:04] Probably very, very rich people.

[6:26:05] Needless to say, I've been here for six years.

[6:26:07] Actually, yesterday was my anniversary, six year being in the Roman Walk, I'm on Zenig of Zenig Drive.

[6:26:15] So I'm thinking, I don't understand why we need another one.

[6:26:20] I mean, oh, the thing I want to say about where we live is a upper kind of up-class middle-class neighborhood.

[6:26:28] But there's a portion of, if I'm correct me if I'm wrong, I'm only here six years.

[6:26:32] Seems to me, northern Naples is a richer section of Naples.

[6:26:37] May I go along? Please. Can't trick me if I'm wrong.

[6:26:40] Sounds like we'd really, but someone would be interested in putting $300,000 to be in a golf course here at this portion of Naples.

[6:26:48] I don't know if that doesn't make sense to me.

[6:26:51] Obviously I'm against the rezoning, right now,

[6:26:54] because fires are an issue because I remember last year

[6:26:56] it was horrible that the those fires that it was getting

[6:27:00] a little bit concerning in the run-off

[6:27:02] and also the Tamarando Tamarando place.

[6:27:06] Do you really think they have $500,000

[6:27:09] that they could put toys aside?

[6:27:11] They can't even rent those places.

[6:27:12] I mean, maybe you can get it from them,

[6:27:14] but I would be shocked, I would be really shocked.

[6:27:15] I'm concerned also the over-development, the six years I'm here, I'm overwhelmed without over-developed

[6:27:22] naples' I mean, I don't have children, I went into my career, but I'm thinking the younger generation,

[6:27:30] what are we leaving for these kids, my God, every place I go, development's all apartments, condos,

[6:27:37] whatever.

[6:27:38] I had many more things to tell you, but I kind of like what I, but I, oh, I also, when I get my

[6:27:44] Bill on the mail of my text bill.

[6:27:46] It has the panther in the corner.

[6:27:49] I think you should change that logo,

[6:27:51] because we're losing all the panthers.

[6:27:52] He either put a bulldozer or a cementer, if he has me.

[6:27:57] I'm sorry, but that's how I feel.

[6:28:00] And closing because a lot of my other stuff

[6:28:02] has already been mentioned.

[6:28:04] Oh, price of greed, not the price of progress.

[6:28:08] That's what seems to be happening.

[6:28:09] Thank you.

[6:28:10] Thank you.

[6:28:11] Our next registered speaker is Monica Higgins.

[6:28:14] And she will be followed by Robin Stinky.

[6:28:19] Thank you, I'm Monica Higgins.

[6:28:21] Thank you for allowing me to speak today.

[6:28:24] I am against the rezoning of this property,

[6:28:26] and I'm sure others will cover other areas that might need to be talked about,

[6:28:30] but I want to speak specifically about the suggestion that an odd bond

[6:28:35] international signature course would be good for the habitat of the animals living there.

[6:28:41] I have worked on golf courses for over 30 years.

[6:28:43] Most of them were autobond certified.

[6:28:47] The last 10 years here in Call Your County.

[6:28:50] These were not at areas that allow for animal habitats.

[6:28:56] Let me tell you why.

[6:28:58] It starts at five o'clock in the morning,

[6:29:00] because that's when the mowers and the blowers and the weed ears

[6:29:03] and the edges and the utility vehicles all start out with lights on

[6:29:09] so they can see to work in the dark for the next two and a half to three hours.

[6:29:14] Then you have 20 to 30 people running this equipment.

[6:29:18] They have to come in.

[6:29:19] They have cars coming in.

[6:29:21] You talk about 50 to 70, 50, 70, 70 traffic coming in.

[6:29:26] How about the workers that work there?

[6:29:28] They have to come in.

[6:29:29] They have to park this and then there's the irrigation system has to run.

[6:29:36] And the irrigation has to be repaired.

[6:29:38] You have people all over the course making noise and lights and actions.

[6:29:42] So the dark sky thing doesn't fit either.

[6:29:47] And then you have the irrigation, the fertilizers,

[6:29:50] the fungicides, and the pesticides that you have to apply

[6:29:53] because you have to keep the grass at 3, 30 seconds of an inch

[6:29:57] for the grass to be potable and they have to...

[6:30:00] 12, like everybody wants.

[6:30:05] Additions. Then have aeration, power raking, vacuuming, and tractors, the

[6:30:13] command that's sliced-sitter, and inject an insecticide to kill malkricots and nematodes. So, it's not

[6:30:21] a simple green open space. It's an active production area, active turf production area.

[6:30:31] Habitat if there is any is along the edges because you're there to play golf, you're not there to make habitat for animals.

[6:30:41] You can have a few butterfly gardens, so you might have an area for, I don't know, any little animal, but you're not going to have panthers living on the course.

[6:30:52] You're not going to have habitat for anything besides rabbits and the animals that do come in

[6:30:59] like the boars and the deer will have to be hunted because they tear up the golf course.

[6:31:05] So you're not making habitat for animals.

[6:31:10] And then if you have cottages in a clubhouse, then you have people that have to come in and service

[6:31:15] to cottages in the clubhouse.

[6:31:17] So there's more personnel coming in.

[6:31:19] people that bring in food in alcohol and paper products and clean clean the

[6:31:25] property of and do laundry. So it's not a simple thing as saying that it's just an

[6:31:31] open space and does not encourage wildlife. I am against, I'm not against the

[6:31:36] out of on in program because I have certified courses, but it's just a small step

[6:31:41] up from a regular golf course and it's not habitat for animals. Thank you.

[6:31:47] Our next registered speaker is Robin Stanky, and she will be followed by J. Cole Hagen.

[6:31:55] Good afternoon. My name is Robin Stanky, and I'm here to comment on behalf of the Conservancy of Southwest Florida.

[6:32:02] The Conservancy has a long history in protecting the lands within and around the Pika-Yoon-Strand State Forest,

[6:32:08] also known as Southern Golden Gate estates and Bel-Meed.

[6:32:13] This parcel is within the Florida forever Bel-Meed acquisition area, and is adjacent to lands that are part of Pigeon's strand and lands that are set aside for conservation purposes.

[6:32:25] This parcel is also part of the rule French mixed-used district sending lands.

[6:32:30] We oppose this proposal to remove nearly 170 acres from RFMUD sending to intensify the land in order to develop a private golf course with amenities.

[6:32:44] Intensification for this use is not appropriate in this location.

[6:32:49] The Sabel Palm property contains important habitat for the endangered Florida painters and other wildlife, and is currently classified as sending lands under the RFMUD.

[6:32:59] which limits use to load density development, agriculture, conservation, and participation in the RFMU-D's transfer of development rights TDR program.

[6:33:13] While this land does consist of citrus grows, that does not diminish its ecological value, especially when considered in a location context adjacent to pick a UNstrand state forest.

[6:33:27] This land is sensitive habitat, in an important location, and its classification as RFMUD

[6:33:35] sending has always been and remains appropriate.

[6:33:40] Taking the Sabel Park parcel out of the RFMUD overlay, in order to build a private golf course,

[6:33:47] contains no public benefit to call your county, or the RFMUD overlay, and does not discourage urban

[6:33:54] strong. The Conservancy Beliefs, one of the most important functions for the commissioners,

[6:34:01] is to uphold the integrity of the comprehensive plan. Therefore, we ask that you deny this

[6:34:08] application as being not in the best interest of Koya County. Thank you. Our next registered

[6:34:15] Speaker's J. Cole Hagen followed by Samuel Weiskell.

[6:34:20] The missioners. J. Cole Hagen for the record.

[6:34:25] And precinct 434 committee man and mosquito control commissioner.

[6:34:31] Seat 3 candidate.

[6:34:33] What that said.

[6:34:35] My concern is what could happen if you approve this golf course

[6:34:39] zoning particularly because Hassiana lakes owns property directly adjacent to this site.

[6:34:45] Florida, Florida's new SB 686 agricultural and Klaver law raises important question.

[6:34:54] Could the approval of this golf course rezoning help create the 75% perimeter needed for

[6:34:59] the adjacent property to pursue the development under the SB 686 law?

[6:35:04] You know, the law that you commissioners have no say so when they pull the trigger on it.

[6:35:14] If the answer is yes, then you are voting on to they could.

[6:35:19] You're voting to they have consequences beyond the orange grove in front of you.

[6:35:22] I'm asking you to make sure you understand the consequences before you vote.

[6:35:27] I'd like to have my capacity come up and explain to the board before you make the decision.

[6:35:30] because in the future you might not have a decision to make. Thank you.

[6:35:38] Our next registered speaker is Samuel Weiskell, and he will be followed by James Weiskell.

[6:35:44] Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Samuel Weiskell, and I'm here to speak against the proposed changes at 341 Sabol Palm Road.

[6:35:51] To me, the bigger issue is where call your county wants development to occur in the future.

[6:35:56] This property is outside the urban development boundary.

[6:36:00] It is in the rural fringe mixed use district and is currently designated as sending land.

[6:36:06] In area that the county has specifically identified because of its environmental value and sensitivity.

[6:36:12] The county's own explanation says that sending lands are an area of the highest environmental value and sensitivity

[6:36:18] and that the purpose of the program is to direct development rights away from those areas towards receiving lands

[6:36:24] where development is considered more appropriate.

[6:36:27] There is a pretty important planning principle.

[6:36:29] That's a pretty important planning principle.

[6:36:31] My question is, why are we changing that plan for this particular property?

[6:36:36] I understand that the proposed golf course is less intensive

[6:36:39] than the 423 homes that were previously proposed.

[6:36:43] But I don't think the question should simply be,

[6:36:45] as a golf course better than 423 houses.

[6:36:48] The question should be, is a private golf course

[6:36:51] the kind of development that belongs on land

[6:36:53] that the county intentionally designated

[6:36:55] as rural sending lands outside the urban development boundary.

[6:36:59] And remember, this isn't simply a request

[6:37:02] to build something that is already permitted.

[6:37:04] The county is being asked to change the growth management plan

[6:37:07] and then change the zoning to a governmentate this plan.

[6:37:11] I also think we need to consider what happens

[6:37:13] if we start making exceptions

[6:37:14] to this planning system one property at a time.

[6:37:18] If property outside the urban development boundary can be removed from the Sending Land designation,

[6:37:24] whenever an alternative development proposal comes along, what happens to the purpose of the Sending Lands Program?

[6:37:30] The county has the rights and responsibility to, including the responsibility to maintain a consistent long-term plan for how call your county grows.

[6:37:40] For me, that's the issue. It's about whether we want to continue directing growth towards the area.

[6:37:45] The county has designated for development or start making exceptions for development in areas specifically designated to remain rural and environmentally sensitive.

[6:37:53] I respectfully ask you to vote no on items 9C and 9D. Thank you.

[6:37:58] Thank you.

[6:37:59] Our next registered speaker is James Weiskel, and he will be followed by Robert Bloom.

[6:38:05] Good afternoon. My name is James Weiskel, and I'm here today because I'm strongly opposed to the proposed changes affecting 341 Sabol Palm Road.

[6:38:15] I think it's important to understand that this is about more than simply building a golf course.

[6:38:21] What is being requested is a change that counties existing land use designation, as well as a change to the

[6:38:29] Boundary Establish by Ordnance 8905 in order to create a special designation that would allow an 18-hole golf course in 10 cottages.

[6:38:39] I understand that the property owner has rights and I respect those rights, but having the right to own property is not the same thing as having the right to have the county change

[6:38:49] land use plan to accommodate a particular project. This property is currently designated as

[6:38:56] rural fringe mixed use, sending lands. And the county's own comprehensive plan says that sending

[6:39:02] lands have the highest degree of environmental value and sensitivity in our principal target

[6:39:08] for preservation and conservation. So we're not talking about just any piece of vacant land.

[6:39:14] We're talking about changing a designation that the county specifically created to protect

[6:39:20] environmentally sensitive land.

[6:39:22] I realize a golf course is less intensive than putting hundreds of homes on this property,

[6:39:28] but that doesn't automatically make it environmentally appropriate.

[6:39:32] Golf course requires significant irrigation, fertilizer, pesticides, and stormwater management.

[6:39:39] and the county's own conservation call your review found approximately 22 acres of native plant habitat on this property.

[6:39:48] There are also wildlife and water concerns, the county's policies specifically talk about protecting listed species habitat and maintaining wildlife corridors.

[6:39:59] And I think there's an important point about the conservation call your offer.

[6:40:03] The owner had every right to reject that offer, but rejecting an offer to sell the property

[6:40:09] doesn't mean the county should then change its land use designation and boundary to

[6:40:15] make the owners prefer development possible.

[6:40:18] The missioners, I'm not asking you to take this property away from the owner.

[6:40:23] I'm asking you to protect the integrity of the plan that call your county itself adopted.

[6:40:28] If we're going to change both the land use designation and the boundary establish

[6:40:32] under ordinance 8905. I believe there needs to be a very strong legal and environmental justification

[6:40:39] for doing it. I respectfully ask you to vote against these amendments. Thank you.

[6:40:45] Thank you. Our next registered speaker is Robert Blum and he will be followed by Jennifer

[6:40:51] Asling.

[6:40:54] Good afternoon. My name is Robert Blum and thank you for your opportunity.

[6:40:58] speak on the Sable Palm Citrus Rope proposed private golf course in cabins.

[6:41:05] My take of it is that this proposal has no general public benefit for district one or

[6:41:14] call your county in general.

[6:41:17] Call your county if you all love to call home and want the best for.

[6:41:21] Has approximately 90 golf courses.

[6:41:26] and which, according to I think, was Mr. Hillibran said, there's seven public courses.

[6:41:32] So, it means there's 83 private golf courses.

[6:41:37] Prior to the county has the highest or nearly the highest concentration of private golf courses

[6:41:41] in the United States, the need for another private golf course on an environmentally sensitive

[6:41:48] land by changing the designation from sending this not whole water and does not serve the general

[6:41:54] public.

[6:41:56] In the supplemental staff report, executive summary, the justification by the developer team

[6:42:02] uses a document showing the membership weights and initiation fees of 10 comparable private

[6:42:09] golf courses that I think it was referred to as document by RVI, Mr. Hilbert referred to it.

[6:42:17] This is not only not provided any proof of general public benefit and in fact provides the

[6:42:22] opposite. Another private golf course for the wealthy and super wealthy, so they have to

[6:42:28] wait less time to join. That's what we're doing here today. According to Mr. Hilibrand,

[6:42:35] the developer's golf course consultant told the Planning Commission, there's unfulfilled

[6:42:40] the man he explained that again today about 700 people are on the waiting list again into these

[6:42:47] comparable golf courses,

[6:42:51] 700 people out of a

[6:42:53] coyote county population, 400,000, but adults to 150,000,

[6:42:57] how is that any general public benefit?

[6:43:00] And again, they've mentioned that the initiation fee was 300,000.

[6:43:06] How many in this room can afford 300,000 million dollars?

[6:43:09] I don't think many.

[6:43:12] The National average public golf courses in an area is 61%.

[6:43:16] percent, the 39 percent private. Again, this proposal has no general public benefit.

[6:43:24] At the neighborhood meeting, I think it was passed June, and again, it was mentioned about

[6:43:29] O'Reilly International. Well, what is O'Reilly International? What it isn't is the National

[6:43:36] Audubon Society, the opposite. It is an organization funded by golf courses, and the United

[6:43:42] government association. Golf courses pay thousands of dollars to obtain certification. That's

[6:43:49] a self-fulfilling outcome. Additionally, it takes up to three years to complete certification if

[6:43:56] they get it.

[6:44:02] That's 30 seconds. That's 30 seconds. That's your final beaver.

[6:44:07] OK, I just want to say an conclusion that a wealthy private golf course, an on-clave

[6:44:16] in the middle of preserved lands has no general public benefit.

[6:44:20] Thank you.

[6:44:21] Thank you.

[6:44:22] Our next registered speaker is Jennifer Astling.

[6:44:26] Jennifer has a speaker seeding time to her Cynthia Bryce.

[6:44:29] Thank you Cynthia.

[6:44:31] Jennifer, you'll have six minutes and she will be followed by Richard next time.

[6:44:37] Man would you prefer to sit out with the microphone or are you okay standing with me?

[6:44:41] I'm okay saying that if you don't mind my voice shaking for just a moment but I do appreciate the offer

[6:44:45] I just want to make sure

[6:44:47] So I think all of you have heard the time to allow us to speak I

[6:44:52] I've sat here and I'll be honest since I've been part of this since 2002 actually 97 when all of this started

[6:45:01] All of most of your time, I think. But in those times, there were a lot that we went through. So when I was looking through this, the only thing I kept coming up with was inconvenient truths.

[6:45:13] And the unfortunate part is no one in this room is exempt from the immediate truths that I found.

[6:45:18] So we've debated a lot about whether or not the smits have the right to change their land. And I would never want to say that they can't because, as I've said here before,

[6:45:29] They've been our neighbors for 36, 32, 40, whatever years, and I want what's best for them,

[6:45:35] but I don't want to give up my life or the lives of those of us around them to do that.

[6:45:40] One of the things that keeps getting brought up is that, you know, it could have been changed.

[6:45:44] They didn't have to have the sending units.

[6:45:46] And you're right, they didn't, but see, we were all notified of that.

[6:45:50] There were letters that went out, there were conversations that had all going back to the original

[6:45:55] ordinance of 2002-32. In during that time, we had signs that came out, we had

[6:46:03] mailings that came in, that gave us that lovely year to come here in front of you

[6:46:08] or in front of the courts and say, hey, we don't want our land to be this. And while I

[6:46:13] appreciate the fact that they were busy and I appreciate whatever reasons we're

[6:46:16] coming to now, that wasn't done. The first time that they were notified that they

[6:46:20] the right to change this was sent out April 10th through the 15th of 2002. So why were here 25 years later

[6:46:29] having the same conversation I'm not exactly sure? I know that they have the right to come before

[6:46:34] you and say hey please do what's right for our lands but so do I. So does everyone else in this room

[6:46:39] and unlike the people that live in Barona walk or the other developments they don't live under a

[6:46:44] mile away from this. So when the light pollution happens which it will it's not their lands affected

[6:46:50] But when you go out on table palm at midnight, there is no lights, there's some of the

[6:46:55] houses, there's horses, there's animals, we bought into that life.

[6:46:59] We wanted that life to expect it to change now because someone 25 years later says that

[6:47:04] that doesn't work for them doesn't really work for me.

[6:47:07] If I were to come into any of your communities like, I do believe that we'll pick any one

[6:47:14] of these.

[6:47:14] That is one of the auto-bond societies, tip-run, for example.

[6:47:18] I couldn't go into Tibron even if I owned all the money in the world and buy that golf course and say in the middle of your development

[6:47:24] I'm gonna put my farm. You're gonna wake up to my cows. You're gonna wake up to my horses. You're gonna wake up to my geese and

[6:47:30] God forbid you make one of our our peacock's mad because let me tell you

[6:47:34] You know anybody that lives on Brandy Lane can tell you you are woken up by one of our neighbors animals or one of the horses or one of those things

[6:47:41] But I couldn't do that to your areas. I couldn't walk in and say hey, this is the zoning that works for me

[6:47:47] Why is it okay now 25 years later for you to come into my land in some my area where I live and say it's okay

[6:47:54] And we're saying we can't talk about the future

[6:47:57] We can't say that this could lead into a development the problem with that is I live on the 200 block of stable pump or a brandy land

[6:48:04] Directly behind me. It's Hasi Handa at 690

[6:48:09] Approximate eight years now. I paraphrasing because I don't have the exact age acreage here

[6:48:14] But that's just on the one side of the road.

[6:48:16] You go on the side that connects to the Citrus Grove and there's more

[6:48:19] acreages that around them that also brought up to the picking and state park.

[6:48:26] How can you tell me that that can't eventually become development?

[6:48:30] When the Smith's family has bought 300 table palm.

[6:48:34] They have bought the easement to the church immediately next to it.

[6:48:37] They bought the easement to the property on the 300 side of Brandy Lane,

[6:48:41] all for the housing development.

[6:48:42] And while that was made for that, maybe it doesn't stop from being there property now.

[6:48:48] It doesn't stop it from owning a development owning that.

[6:48:52] That's one side of my land.

[6:48:54] The other side of my land is already Hacienda.

[6:48:57] So I appreciate that we're not supposed to talk about inconvenient truths,

[6:49:01] but that's my inconvenient truth.

[6:49:03] When I walk out of here today, regardless of what you decide,

[6:49:06] my life will be affected by it.

[6:49:08] You change the sending into something that is commercial,

[6:49:11] something that is not residential, especially for owners who have not gone any other route

[6:49:17] but developers. We have talked about conservation collier. There is no public price for this land.

[6:49:22] There is no public listing for this land. There are about 15 different places that you can go just

[6:49:28] for self-situations. There are places you can go to sell land that people would be interested in for

[6:49:34] things like ranches. We spent $756 million or billion dollars to do the piquean

[6:49:40] strand. And we're not asking why we're not pitching this property right next

[6:49:44] store to people who would live in agricultural sending land. It doesn't make sense. Money

[6:49:50] makes sense. Now, I happen to have a degree in crime analysis and happen to graduate

[6:49:57] second in my class, happen to work in banking and April for less 15-20 years. So I

[6:50:01] know there's money here and I know how to follow but I don't know how to follow logic that

[6:50:06] doesn't go back we give someone a year to come back and say hey you don't like this don't

[6:50:12] do it no one did that you don't have the right to do that I don't have the right to do that why

[6:50:17] is that here there's a statute of limitations for everything and we've applied it I want this family

[6:50:23] to be successful I don't think they have the right to destroy an area because of it and before we

[6:50:28] talk about things like animals and bed or landing, we forgot that there was a panther that

[6:50:33] came out right by their preserve, that's the only one that is done that came out with

[6:50:37] cubs, went back, came out with three more cubs, and while that's not convenient and it

[6:50:41] doesn't do a lot, it doesn't say that they have a tail on it, it's the land that we bought

[6:50:45] into. 86 acres of land, just in one mile of people who thought that this was the world

[6:50:52] that we wanted. How is it different now? Thank you for your time.

[6:50:55] Thank you.

[6:50:58] Our next registered speaker is Richard X-Dine and he will be followed by Michaela Kendall.

[6:51:08] Richard X-Dine.

[6:51:13] All right, it doesn't appear.

[6:51:15] Richard is here.

[6:51:17] Michaela Kendall.

[6:51:19] Michaela is our next registered speaker and Michaela will be followed by Susan Skolf.

[6:51:29] All right, hello commissioners for the record.

[6:51:31] Michaela Kendall.

[6:51:33] My concern is that approving this project would fundamentally change county policy, undermining

[6:51:39] environmental safeguards for one property without adequately demonstrating that doing so serves

[6:51:45] public interest or protects surrounding natural resources and neighboring communities.

[6:51:50] This is a decision on whether or not the county's long-standing system for directing growth

[6:51:55] and protecting environmentally sensitive lands still holds the spirit as originally intended.

[6:52:02] Now, I have, all over the place, I've been following this since we started with the 400

[6:52:08] in some houses, obviously that was shut down, but now we're here for a golf course, and

[6:52:15] there's been a lot of conversation about, well, as a golf course, more sustainable for animals

[6:52:20] or as an orange grove, and I think it's very funny, because some of my earliest memories

[6:52:25] are in a mockery, writing down and looking.

[6:52:30] Down the orange grows, looking for Turkey, and dear early in the mornings. You know, whether they make habits at there or they're just hanging out, you know, shade from the trees, that's one thing.

[6:52:42] But my real concern is the changing of this land, changing it from the sending designation, and specifically changing it to a community facility.

[6:52:55] I was actually looking in your land development code, section 2.03.05, right, it says a community

[6:53:02] facilities for the purpose and intent are non-residential land uses, generally identified

[6:53:10] in the urban designation of the future land use map, or it's our element.

[6:53:16] Dimensional standards are intended to ensure compatibility, again, with existing or future nearby

[6:53:22] residential development. My concern is that if you establish this as a community facility,

[6:53:29] properties around it can then look at that and say, well, this is justifying future residential

[6:53:35] development. So I really, I don't understand why we need the community facility designation.

[6:53:42] They're not even asking just for neutral. I, again, I still think that a sent, it should be classified

[6:53:49] a sensitive land. I think that agriculture is important for our economy, important for our environment,

[6:53:56] important for us because it feeds it. If we're talking about, you know, chemicals and stuff,

[6:54:00] yeah, you need chemicals on an orange grove. Did you give me my extra time? Was that six minutes?

[6:54:08] Well, she had water. I don't remember you saying it at the beginning. Yeah, I'm so sorry.

[6:54:11] I didn't realize. It was at the end somebody through the meantime.

[6:54:17] Did you stop her timer?

[6:54:18] You did.

[6:54:19] Okay.

[6:54:20] Sorry about that.

[6:54:21] Sorry, sir.

[6:54:22] Let me check really quick.

[6:54:23] It was the last person to put one in of Brittany.

[6:54:29] And she is here.

[6:54:30] She raised your hand.

[6:54:33] Put it down.

[6:54:34] Put it up.

[6:54:38] I'm a service.

[6:54:43] We should get three minutes and thirty seconds.

[6:54:45] But that at all.

[6:54:47] We're good now.

[6:54:50] All right.

[6:54:50] Sorry about that.

[6:54:52] All right.

[6:54:52] Where was I?

[6:54:53] So yeah, I have issues with the community facility aspect of it, again, I'm concerned that in the future, I understand that they want to dedicate this, it's just going to be a golf course, that's all find and nanny, but unless we get those beef restrictions, we're not that can't be guaranteed, you know what I mean, the owner is going to shift things are going to change, not everyone's always going to want to play golf, I

[6:55:22] know that the live local act came up a lot.

[6:55:26] especially during the planning meeting.

[6:55:29] I honestly don't think that as it stands with their current designation,

[6:55:33] that they would receive approval because of the sensitive land.

[6:55:38] But if you did go through with approving this,

[6:55:41] I fear that the changes would give them greater...

[6:55:47] Sorry.

[6:55:48] It would make it more likely for them to get approval under the live local act.

[6:55:55] I also wanted to talk about the fact that Parkinson's disease, right?

[6:56:02] There have been studies that come out that show if you live within a golf course.

[6:56:05] You are more likely to develop that disease.

[6:56:09] I think it was like you have the highest chances within one to three miles, but then it

[6:56:14] continues.

[6:56:16] I first talked about it, but I wanted to kind of circle it back to something else, so the

[6:56:21] the panthers have been dealing with a neurological issue, that's not, they don't know the root cause of it.

[6:56:28] It's a neurological disorder that affects their back legs and makes it difficult for them to walk.

[6:56:33] My concern is that introducing more chemicals to a land that they're in,

[6:56:39] I understand we don't know what the cause is, but I would hate to perpetuate an issue that already exist.

[6:56:48] Again, I'm kind of linking to kind of different ideas, Parkinson's disease to this.

[6:56:54] Panthers disease, that again, we still don't know much about, but I would hate to see that

[6:56:59] it net, I'm sorry, hate to see it negatively affect the Panthers.

[6:57:17] Also, most of the properties along Sable Palm Drive, I believe are not on public sewer,

[6:57:23] their private septic tanks and use a lot of well water. So again, that groundwater is going

[6:57:30] to be affected by the pesticides. I understand that, you know, Autobahn has their best

[6:57:35] management practices, but that does not mean that they're not putting chemicals into the

[6:57:39] ground. It's just best practices. In conclusion, this application asks you to amend the comprehensive

[6:57:46] plan to amend the land development code and establish new zoning framework for one property

[6:57:51] adjacent to one of Florida's most significant restoration projects.

[6:57:55] I don't believe the applicant has demonstrated that these amendments are necessary,

[6:58:00] consistent with long-term planning objectives, or protective of neighboring communities

[6:58:04] or natural resources.

[6:58:06] Until these issues are fully addressed, I respectfully ask you to deny these petitions.

[6:58:11] Thank you.

[6:58:12] Thank you.

[6:58:14] Mr. Chair, if I may.

[6:58:16] What was the name of the person who seeded you time?

[6:58:20] Pretty?

[6:58:21] Thank you. Our next registered speaker is Susan Skulf and Susan has speakers that I've

[6:58:27] seen a time to her Mary Lou Jenkowski. Raise your hand. If you could raise her hand.

[6:58:33] She had to leave because she was here at 830 and she had to leave. She didn't know what was

[6:58:38] going to go on the song. Michelle Fraser. Okay. Susan, you'll have six minutes. Thank you.

[6:58:45] Good morning. Well, I better change my new commissioners.

[6:58:51] My name is Susan Schelf, and I'm asking you to deny this rezoning.

[6:58:58] First, let's expose the legal trap, county legal warnings make it clear that approving

[6:59:03] a commercial designation here creates a dangerous legal loophole, under Florida's

[6:59:10] Live Local Act, granting commercial entitlement risks, stripping this board's local land

[6:59:17] use the authority entirely, opening the door for up to 129 high density, residential units

[6:59:24] through Hacienda Lake's density transfers, without any local oversight or public control.

[6:59:31] Once that commercial door is opened, you cannot close it.

[6:59:36] Second, this is a designated conservation sending area in the Bell Mead overlay.

[6:59:41] Just yesterday, the landowner officially rejected conservation collures fair market value purchase offer.

[6:59:51] Walking away from a fair tax payer funded buyout at the very last minute is a classic all or nothing developer tactic designed.

[7:00:00] To force a commercial resum, taxpayers funded conservation calyer precisely to preserve sensitive lands like this.

[7:00:10] You are under no obligation to bail out a private landowner with a commercial windfall because they refused a fair public offer.

[7:00:19] Granting an exception here sets a devastating precedent for land conservation across our entire county.

[7:00:27] Third, this is the primary Florida panther habitat and a vital ecosystem.

[7:00:34] This land acts as a critical wildlife corridor, buffering the Picaune, strand state forests,

[7:00:43] converting protected habitat into a commercial footprint, further fragments this corridor,

[7:00:50] critical to the survival of Florida's endangered state animal.

[7:00:54] Do not be misled by greenwashing.

[7:00:59] The applicant claims credentials through Audubon International,

[7:01:03] but Audubon International is a private membership organization funded by golf course fees.

[7:01:11] It has no government oversight or endorsement and is completely separate from the National Audubon Society.

[7:01:18] paid-goss certifications do not change the fact that this is commercial development on protected

[7:01:25] Panther habitat.

[7:01:28] Fourth, Consider Water in Public Safety, the applicant suggests installing culverts to

[7:01:34] manage water, but culverts merely move water faster.

[7:01:39] They do not absorb it, paving over hydric wetland soil, destroys the natural sponge that prevents

[7:01:47] regional flooding, removing that natural storage channels untreated runoff and shifts long-term

[7:01:54] flood liability directly onto the taxpayers. Furthermore, stable palm road remains a narrow

[7:02:02] two-lane, dead-end, stripping out previously promised infrastructure improvements,

[7:02:09] creates severe hazards for daily traffic and emergency wildfire evacuations.

[7:02:16] Fifth, this request violates the PUD criterion 20.

[7:02:22] For decades, this property enjoyed low-agric cultural tax rates intended for land

[7:02:29] preservation preservation, reimagining it now for commercial gain grants and

[7:02:36] warranted special privilege that directly threatens public welfare.

[7:02:42] Every zoning decision sets a policy precedent.

[7:02:45] If you grant a commercial exception inside a conservation sending area, you break the

[7:02:51] contract with every property owner who complied with our growth management plan.

[7:02:56] You signal to every developer in Southwest Florida that our highest environmental protections

[7:03:02] are negotiable if they hold out long enough.

[7:03:05] If you have full legal authority under PUD criterion 20 to protect public welfare, over private speculative gain,

[7:03:17] I urge you to stand up for our water, our wildlife, our infrastructure, and our land use integrity. Please vote no, and thank you very much.

[7:03:29] Thank you. Our next registered speaker is Sergei Kelly followed by Cody Davis.

[7:04:00] Okay, perfect. Great to be here and great to see you guys all again.

[7:04:03] It is a simple no on this development is the Everglades and you cannot exchange your own wild Florida for a golf course.

[7:04:10] It will never be a fair substitute for the more.

[7:04:14] We do obviously thank you for denying the housing proposal because obviously that's easily much much worse.

[7:04:19] However, these transient cottages, which are just houses on the golf course, which currently would allow up to four for the whole 169 acres, would they want 10 and they would be

[7:04:31] Pernet buildings, this would not be something that disappears at night or when the animals come by the house has gone for some reason.

[7:04:37] Furthermore, the golf course has to be padded down, you're going to be moving substrate, moving the water around.

[7:04:43] There's going to be chemicals, this is not just you pull up with the golf cart,

[7:04:47] wraps and golf clubs, and you go out with the Panthers, deer, and boar, and go see

[7:04:50] them while you play golf.

[7:04:51] That's now what this is.

[7:04:53] Furthermore, the area is always going to have water problems or water on it, because it is

[7:04:57] the Everglades.

[7:04:58] And the fact that it's surrounded by north, south, east, and west of the Everglades and

[7:05:02] conservation lands that you guys designated should be protected forever.

[7:05:08] Furthermore, I think the fact that the developer did not show up with an actual golf course

[7:05:12] plan for the golf course development they put forward as a golf course shows a lot more

[7:05:17] that there isn't necessarily maybe a golf course they want. They just need some new designation

[7:05:21] of classification which could open up the doors we've seen time and time again where a developer

[7:05:26] usually doesn't have maybe the most directive intentions and obviously we know what a law can be

[7:05:31] very friendly to developers. Furthermore, I did not see a species impact or an assessment really

[7:05:37] given just some talk about there could be deer or borrower on there, which didn't only

[7:05:41] know the signs behind that furthermore.

[7:05:44] If conservation collier had been fully funded and 29.3 million had not been taken in 2023,

[7:05:51] perhaps there could have been the funds to actually acquire this property.

[7:05:54] Obviously, yes.

[7:05:55] I've been out to that site.

[7:05:57] I've looked at it.

[7:05:57] It's not, you know, it says peak for steam ever glades because part of it was a citrus

[7:06:02] growth.

[7:06:02] However, as it stands today, it's far better than a golf course and could be very easily

[7:06:07] many terms re-wilded or allowed to be agriculture, but definitely not a golf course.

[7:06:13] Furthermore, whether you agree or not with people here or if it should be the Everglades,

[7:06:17] it's not the Everglades, it should only be protected if it's part of a state force,

[7:06:20] the official designation. It should be more of what do the people want. If everyone here essentially

[7:06:25] wants it to be either agricultural, not reclassified or wild, that should be the will and that should

[7:06:31] what's done. Furthermore, we need thirty-seven.

[7:06:37] Furthermore, yes, there are private property rights, however, the private property rights of one

[7:06:42] owner is not the same as the private property owner, extinguishing their rights and giving it

[7:06:47] to another person entirely or another corporation entirely to do a whole mother use of the land.

[7:06:53] It's not the same person doing the same thing on the land when they're bringing houses or golf

[7:06:57] So their property rights have ended and then new ones be getting and that's what we're deciding it's not trying to impede on their rights as we do want to respect

[7:07:04] And please vote no on this and hyper club

[7:07:10] Our next registered speaker is Cody Davis followed by Christine Briggs

[7:07:18] Hi, my name's Cody Davis the county attorney's office wrote up a very important memo regarding the potential application of the live local act on this proposed CFPUD

[7:07:28] in the memo.

[7:07:30] It highlights the fact that this project is structured in a way that would grant local eligibility if approved in its current form.

[7:07:37] This would allow 4,225 units to be built on this property by right.

[7:07:43] Three potential options were suggested for altering the proposal to disallow this.

[7:07:48] The county attorney indicated he was not sure whether the first proposal, restrictive covenants who did the deeds.

[7:07:54] The deed restrictions would hold up in court.

[7:07:56] Proposal number two was characterized as retaining the RF mud receiving land designation.

[7:08:02] This appears to be an error since county staff have repeatedly described the parcel as sending land.

[7:08:07] The third option is the only one proposed by the memo in which the board could have confidence it would stand up in court.

[7:08:14] This option consists of conditioning approval on applying a conservation easement over the entire CFPUD.

[7:08:20] Additionally, in the executive summary for this item, the county attorney suggested not

[7:08:25] approving the cottages could resolve the issue, but his own office's memo contradicts

[7:08:29] him.

[7:08:30] Quote, the sale of golf memberships, payment for golf, rental of golf carts, and rental

[7:08:35] of the cabins slash gas cottages, among other for-profit uses, our commercial activities

[7:08:41] under the definition of commercial use under the Live Local Act.

[7:08:44] The proposed CFPUD would qualify as a commercial use in a planned unit development under the act and would be eligible for live-local development.

[7:08:54] The property currently is not eligible and staff agrees.

[7:08:58] The applicant's attorney is bluffing when he threatens to appeal staff's decision regarding the current in-applicability of the act if his client doesn't get their way.

[7:09:06] The RF Month's sending land designation was made prior to July 1st, 2026, so the pre-emptions

[7:09:13] of the act do not apply to this land in its current state.

[7:09:17] Additionally, the property owner, according to his longtime neighbor, Jennifer Asling's

[7:09:21] sworn testimony that we heard a moment ago, knew that his property was being placed in

[7:09:26] the RF Month back in 2002.

[7:09:30] Altogether, this entire proposal in its current state is a convoluted scheme to get the

[7:09:35] missioners to approve the same sprawl that they rejected in January by leveraging the preemptions

[7:09:40] of the Live Local Act. This is not a golf course, it's 4,000 plus units. I urge the

[7:09:47] commissioners to reject this project again. Thank you.

[7:09:51] Thank you. Our next registered speaker is Christine Briggs. Christine has what appears

[7:09:57] to be two people seeding time to her, Lonnie, Lonnie Attten, and Connie Randolph.

[7:10:06] I should.

[7:10:06] I should be back there.

[7:10:07] Thank you, Connie.

[7:10:09] Christine, you will have nine minutes.

[7:10:13] Thank you for being willing to hear everyone's concerns.

[7:10:18] I have been so impressed with the comments that others have made,

[7:10:23] and I do want to express appreciation to our commissioner.

[7:10:28] I'm in Barona Walk to Brickle Castro for trying to find other options.

[7:10:36] He came to Barona Walk and he heard us.

[7:10:40] We had an amazing turnout for his presentation and I think he was well aware that the vast

[7:10:48] majority of people were opposed to development, whether the development is something so

[7:10:55] and obvious is 423 homes, or whether it's disguised as the Audubon International Golf Course.

[7:11:04] In my ideal, perhaps, dream world, all five of you will vote no to changing this.

[7:11:15] Others had powerfully described the environmental and legal drawbacks for approving a golf course.

[7:11:23] Their most compelling argument that we heard so many express, and I know that you fear

[7:11:30] because of the questions that you asked your attorney, is that the live local act, which

[7:11:37] ironically does exactly the opposite of what it says, takes away all the power from the local

[7:11:44] commissioners, would be used if we have those 10 cabanas.

[7:11:50] I'd like to approach this whole issue from a different angle.

[7:11:56] As elected public servants, I know your job isn't easy.

[7:12:00] Many of you work over time, including our commissioner, answering emails, a few of

[7:12:07] which could possibly be annoying or redundant.

[7:12:18] But which decision that of a golf course or to turn down this request to change the growth

[7:12:31] management plan most closely aligns with your responsibilities to fulfill voter mandates

[7:12:41] and honor public fiduciary trust.

[7:12:46] Which decision most clearly benefits the 400,000 residents of Kauir County is opposed to

[7:12:54] the five-sours of the Sable Palm Grove according to the officially sanctioned Kauir County

[7:13:02] community assessment. More than 250,000 residents are deeply concerned about managing growth

[7:13:13] and development. That was their second greatest concern. Their third was protecting the

[7:13:20] environment. In 2020, a decisive 76.5% majority, or over 150,000 residents voted to support

[7:13:33] conservation call you, do we need more indicators that the environment, the beauty of

[7:13:41] Naples is what draws the tourists. Not just those of us who became permanent residents

[7:13:49] a dozen years ago like I did. And if you do your research, if you just look at AI, it says

[7:13:59] we get more income from our tourist money, from our tourist taxes than we do from other

[7:14:07] sources. So why not continue to nurture what has made, call your county so unique?

[7:14:24] The argument

[7:14:25] has been made that the sellers didn't, that the Orange Grove owners didn't know they were

[7:14:32] getting sending land. They purchased 169 acres in 1979. For probably less than 100,000, the

[7:14:42] purchase prices and available online, but that's what AI says. They are benefited for decades

[7:14:49] from Florida's Green Belt Law, which grants an agricultural classification and ensures substantially

[7:14:58] lower property taxes.

[7:15:00] It is less likely that they would have easily qualified for that sending agricultural qualification.

[7:15:10] If they had not been sending. So in other words, one of the reasons I think it was not contested is that they saw the benefits of being designated as sending,

[7:15:23] because it ensured that they would more easily get the agricultural property tax.

[7:15:32] I do believe as someone who has personally patronized the growth for the last 12 years and spent

[7:15:44] over about $2,000 sending citrus packages to all my relatives in the north that I left behind,

[7:15:55] that I think the Orange Grove has been a profitable business for them.

[7:16:03] If it wasn't, wouldn't they have sold their transfer of development rights by now if they were in need of money?

[7:16:12] So, how are they repaying the thousands of residents who have supported their growth?

[7:16:21] Even when we knew citrus-greening had taken most of it down, the residents that are nearby

[7:16:28] and we do not want to see this area developed.

[7:16:31] So,

[7:16:38] I do value private property, even though I wanted those unfortunate people who bought

[7:16:46] a home in 2003 and sold it for much less later.

[7:16:52] But that's part of the American dream, I get it.

[7:16:55] But they have other offers.

[7:17:00] If you don't approve this, that will bring maybe a change of heart.

[7:17:08] Who knows? They could be like the like-murvin-radabal, who is he? He's a farmer in Pennsylvania, who despite having four children and many grandchildren turned down 15.7 million dollars and accepted 1.9 million to sell his development rights to the Lancaster Farmland Trust, ensuring the land remains.

[7:17:37] active farm land forever. If you refuse to approve the golf course, the

[7:17:45] stable Palm Salars can still maximize the economic return by double dipping,

[7:17:51] severing and selling their transfer of development rights and credits to

[7:17:55] private buyers first while retaining the underlying land title to sell

[7:18:00] separately to conservation kaya, that might generate additional millions to

[7:18:05] sweeten the offer by conservation calyer.

[7:18:13] If you reject the golf course and this is where

[7:18:16] I'm going to ask all of you as commissioners and I'm going to digress from my script a

[7:18:22] little bit. You did something amazing in a broccoli with belly violence.

[7:18:39] I don't know

[7:18:39] a million dollar land acquisition and a lot of it was set aside for conservation

[7:18:47] value compared with conservation value. So why not do the same and one last

[7:18:53] idea explore other options why not create the first statewide park with a

[7:18:59] working educational citrus growth. I bet we could get support from Ben

[7:19:04] who, by the way, managed to have our legislature dedicate more than 320 million to promote

[7:19:13] for the citrus growth. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have part of it be conservation

[7:19:19] color and the other and educational citrus growth that we could all enjoy. Thank you for your

[7:19:24] patience. Thank you. Mr. Chair, your next registered speakers,

[7:19:28] Bridget Washburn.

[7:19:33] Bridget has a speaker-seeding time or a subfigure all.

[7:19:39] Hi, good afternoon commissioners. Bridget Washburn, executive director of Audubon

[7:19:43] Western Everglades, thanks for the time.

[7:19:46] I'm here to urge you to deny this golf course proposal at 341 Sable Palm Road.

[7:19:52] This property is surrounded by permanent conservation lands and sits within the Bell

[7:19:56] hydrological enhancement overlay which all add to its ecological value. So water passing through

[7:20:03] this property flows all the way to Recrebe and it could be carrying fertilizer, pesticide,

[7:20:09] and other runoff with it. The point being, this property is important not just because of its location

[7:20:14] but because of its role and a much larger conservation in hydrological landscape.

[7:20:21] Due to the resource intensive nature of golf courses and the amenities proposed along with this

[7:20:25] development, we do not see it as a viable conservation compatible option.

[7:20:31] Golf courses generally require lots of fertilizer and irrigation, like other folks have pointed out.

[7:20:37] And that means the impact can reach far beyond the property's footprint.

[7:20:41] And it's current zoning, ascending land, and the county's rural-friendly mixed-use district

[7:20:46] recognizes this area is not suitable for development.

[7:20:50] So speaking to that zoning, as other people have also done, the rural-friendly mixed-use district

[7:20:55] covers around 77,000 acres and call your county and was designed to support local sustainability

[7:21:01] through mindful growth management.

[7:21:04] It directs development away from ecologically sensitive areas or sending lands, including

[7:21:09] this property, towards more appropriate locations that are able to handle housing and

[7:21:14] other development.

[7:21:16] Today, this transfer of development rights program has protected over 7,800 acres on

[7:21:21] $470 properties for around the value of $58 million so it's working, but the framework depends

[7:21:30] on consistency and maintaining existing policies, including upholding the sending and receiving

[7:21:36] designations. It also seems we're saying the Coyour County's Royal French McFews District

[7:21:41] was not created in isolation. That's the result of a county-wide planning and environmental assessment

[7:21:46] that ran from 1999 to 2002 with lots of public input.

[7:21:51] The study looked at the county's large rural areas,

[7:21:54] Aglands, environmentally sensitive lands, wildlife habitat,

[7:21:58] along with anticipated development pressures.

[7:22:01] And so all this data analysis informed amendments

[7:22:04] to the 2002 Proc Management Plan.

[7:22:07] All of this was transparent, equitable,

[7:22:08] and included public workshops, public meetings,

[7:22:11] appointed committees, technical working groups,

[7:22:13] integration of the Environmental Advisory Council, the

[7:22:17] Collier County Planning Commission, and even some state and

[7:22:20] regional agencies, allowing construction of a golf course and

[7:22:24] other structures, and the amenities that might come with them on

[7:22:28] sending lands would undermine the purpose.

[7:22:30] And the integrity of a well-established planning process and this framework, instead of precedent, that opens the door to landowners who might seek similar exemptions in the future.

[7:22:40] So the decision before you today is about more than one property.

[7:22:44] It's about upholding the integrity of the royal fringe mixed use district and protecting public conservation lands and waters from incompatible development.

[7:22:52] I also want to thank you for pursuing the conservation collar option.

[7:22:55] It did provide a fair alternative to the landowner, which is very important, third decision

[7:23:01] not to accept it.

[7:23:03] So we're asking you to say no to this private golf course proposal.

[7:23:07] We're asking you to protect the public interest and surrounding conservation lands and

[7:23:11] waters, including Recrebe, so you all recognize this morning's a well-loved public resource.

[7:23:18] We urge you to use today's decision as an opportunity to preserve one of our most environmentally

[7:23:23] important zoning designations that allows us to balance development with conservation and sustain

[7:23:29] the quality of life here in Coyour County. Thank you. Thank you. Our next registered speaker is

[7:23:34] Gwen Ranzo.

[7:23:38] Gwen has additional speakers seeing time. Wayne Barrick and Gene Pollam.

[7:23:50] Gene Pollam, I'm hoping to say that. I think she loves. Okay. Thank you.

[7:23:56] Gwen, you'll have six minutes.

[7:23:58] Thank you.

[7:23:59] Good afternoon.

[7:24:01] My name is Gwen Randson.

[7:24:03] There is not a need or a demand for a golf course on stable palm road.

[7:24:08] I never heard of people going homeless or starving because a private golf course was not built.

[7:24:14] There are 90 golf clubs in Naples and 21 are private.

[7:24:18] 14 are less than five miles from stable palm.

[7:24:21] This road is a two-lane side street that is not conducive to handling traffic.

[7:24:27] They state there will not be heavy traffic, how so.

[7:24:30] There will be hundreds of members, guests, employees, and vendors driving on stablepong.

[7:24:37] This project will increase pollution and noise levels with cars, commercial trucks, and around 850 people.

[7:24:45] These are all negative effects on our neighborhoods.

[7:24:47] High Biscuits Golf Club is 6.1 miles from the location, which will be an exclusive private

[7:24:56] golf club. Clubhouse, six guest colleges and 18-hole championship course, excuse me. An 18-hole

[7:25:04] championship course expected to be operational by late 2028. I'm asking you please to vote

[7:25:13] Commissioner Hall and Saunders, you saved our neighborhoods last time.

[7:25:19] I'm asking you please to say no again.

[7:25:22] Commissioner LaCastro, McDaniel, and Cal.

[7:25:26] This is not the only option.

[7:25:29] The property was never publicly listed for sale.

[7:25:32] The land can be listed for sale to the public as sending agricultural land.

[7:25:38] We are the Sunshine State.

[7:25:41] Fruit, vegetables, trees, and plants are all lucrative businesses.

[7:25:46] Once the land is re-zone, there's no turning back.

[7:25:50] The land is rare, and not much of us exist in the Naples.

[7:25:54] At the last hearing on August 20th, rich state, there's not any – there was not any panther

[7:26:02] activity at Citrus Grove.

[7:26:03] Where is the documentation from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service where a newsial party?

[7:26:12] FCW did confirm that the property is within the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services primary

[7:26:18] Florida Panthers are focused area.

[7:26:22] And that the Panther protections are handled through U.S.F.W.S.

[7:26:27] and the appropriate federal review and permit process.

[7:26:30] At this time, I would like to show you videos of Panthers from Kareena Court, which is around

[7:26:36] 3.1 miles from 3-4-1 stable palm.

[7:26:41] Now that's driving.

[7:26:43] I'm a panther.

[7:26:44] I'm in the woods.

[7:26:45] I'm walking, right?

[7:26:46] So it's closer.

[7:26:47] I'm cutting like an up and around and down.

[7:26:50] I'm cutting right through.

[7:26:57] So I won't give it heads up because the videos are pretty fast.

[7:27:00] So I want to show you where to look before he hits play.

[7:27:03] Well, this is beautiful.

[7:27:04] So this verse first one is video number one this was May 4, 2025 look to the left bottom

[7:27:13] corner and I also want you to see that they're different the size this one was the largest

[7:27:19] one so therefore I think it's a male video number two

[7:27:28] look to the right look to the left

[7:27:31] now look to the right bottom corner three it's a mother with two juveniles when was this

[7:27:37] taken? This was taken January 23rd, 2026, that was 8 months ago. Video number 3

[7:27:52] looked to the

[7:27:53] right, okay, yeah. So, see to the right and it's traveling down. This was taking September

[7:28:00] 13th, 2026, 9 days ago. Oh, I'm not done. Video number 4. Last night.

[7:28:15] Two of them. See,

[7:28:16] There's one, and there's two.

[7:28:20] We need to play it again.

[7:28:22] Last, and that'll, looks like a mother and a juvenile.

[7:28:27] If you share the map, please.

[7:28:29] Now I want to show you where this area is.

[7:28:39] So, like I said, it's Karina Court.

[7:28:41] And Karina Court is, if you're in a car,

[7:28:43] 3.1 miles.

[7:28:46] If you're a panther, it's a lot faster because you're going right through the woods.

[7:28:49] Korean Accord is in Verona Walk and I live there and I walk around development every day.

[7:28:56] I love it. On the south side, there's all the houses and that's where I live and you

[7:29:02] can share them out whenever you're ready. And when you're walking on the south side, the

[7:29:07] other side is Sabel Palm Road. They all come out. I have so many more videos and photos of

[7:29:14] of deer, of wild turkey, there's all animals back there. I'm not here from my

[7:29:20] health. This is the fourth day I took off from work to be here. Every here

[7:29:23] and I've been here. They're all back there. Another thing is this is where I live.

[7:29:30] This is where we live. It is so peaceful. It is so quiet. It is so nice. This is

[7:29:35] all the way down a side street. And all we're going to hear now are commercial

[7:29:40] trucks and cars and have it. It's not right. Can you get the map? Okay, well he can't get

[7:29:46] the map. So I'm going to pretend. Here is Korea. Alright, so here's Korean Accord. This is

[7:29:52] going to walk. Here's the side. Here's a stable pump. Up and around and down. A stable pump. I'm a

[7:30:01] Goodbye.

[7:30:02] Your tells me there's no Panthers on that land where's the proof?

[7:30:10] Thank you.

[7:30:15] Our next registered speaker is Brad Cornell.

[7:30:18] Brad has a speaker's evening times him brooks brook beardsey.

[7:30:26] Brad, you will have six minutes and he will be followed by

[7:30:30] Janice Gawes.

[7:30:32] Cheers Gawes!

[7:30:35] Good afternoon.

[7:30:36] I'm Brad Cornell and I'm here on behalf of Otobun Florida.

[7:30:39] I'm usually talking for out-of-investor neighborhoods, but in this case I'm talking

[7:30:43] for out-of-in-floor and it's corkscrew, so I'm sanctuary, I'm their south-less

[7:30:48] Florida policy associate.

[7:30:51] Out-of-in-floor deposits this proposed growth management plan amendment and

[7:30:55] rezone for an urban golf course with 10 transient guesthouses, clubhouse, and significant

[7:31:01] irrigation and fertilizer pollution on the golf course.

[7:31:04] On the basis of creating a comprehensive planning, regional failure,

[7:31:10] contrary to the interests of Collier's citizens.

[7:31:13] The site was designated as Roll French Mixed Use District,

[7:31:17] sending a natural resource protection area in 2002.

[7:31:22] And the overall Roll French Mixed Use District plan was challenged

[7:31:25] in administrative court in 2003.

[7:31:28] It was successfully defended by Collier County,

[7:31:31] The state of Florida, Audubon-Western Everglades, and Florida Wildlife Federation, and was prominently reported in all the papers and news media at the time.

[7:31:43] The science-based habitat mapping was confirmed, which showed conservation lands in the real French mixed-use district and across Florida,

[7:31:51] are a mosaic of agricultural and native habitats.

[7:31:56] This citrus grove is surrounded, as you have heard,

[7:31:59] by permanent conservation on all sides,

[7:32:02] including the 74,000 acres of Bickeun Strand State Forest.

[7:32:08] Also, this site and the region have suffered

[7:32:11] from hydrologic impacts, the damning of flowways by the road,

[7:32:16] and over drainage, resulting in exotics,

[7:32:18] And catastrophic wildfires, at least three times in the last two years, that threatened human communities, as well as federally endangered red-cuckated woodpecker habitat, pines, and panther habitats.

[7:32:33] There must be hydrologic restoration to improve this whole region, including this 169 acres site.

[7:32:40] That needed restoration is not golf course storm water lakes.

[7:32:46] It must include the berms being taken down ditches,

[7:32:51] stable palm road, and culverts, and restored flowways.

[7:32:55] This is the watershed of recovery bay, as we've all been paying attention to.

[7:33:01] Also, any golf course should be landscaped only with native plants outside of the fairways.

[7:33:08] that's a really important strategy for building a habitat-friendly golf course.

[7:33:17] Finally, there is a significant risk that eliminating the comprehensive plan

[7:33:22] designations for conservation, sending, and NRPA will make this site vulnerable to future

[7:33:28] conversion of the urban golf course to more intense residential development.

[7:33:33] That is a risk the county should not take.

[7:33:36] The better alternative would have been the application the landowners made to conservation

[7:33:42] collier where the county made an offer based on the current zoning appraised value.

[7:33:50] It's unfortunate that they rejected that before even learning what would happen today.

[7:33:54] I don't know why that happened.

[7:33:56] Audubon Florida strongly urges you not to grant these changes to the growth management plan

[7:34:02] and zoning for this 169 acres.

[7:34:06] One final note, as you've heard a couple of speakers say,

[7:34:10] but since I'm with Audubon,

[7:34:11] I'm going to say this a little more authoritatively.

[7:34:14] Audubon International is not National Audubon Society.

[7:34:18] I'm not saying what they do is good or bad or indifferent,

[7:34:22] but that is not National Audubon Society.

[7:34:25] That is a four-profit golf course certification program.

[7:34:30] Thanks very much for considering our comments.

[7:34:32] Thank you.

[7:34:34] Your next speaker, I apologize.

[7:34:37] Janice Goss.

[7:34:38] Jeras.

[7:34:38] Jeras Goss.

[7:34:39] Jeras, thank you.

[7:34:40] And Jeras will be followed by Dan Shallow.

[7:34:43] Awesome.

[7:34:44] Good afternoon.

[7:34:45] I was born and raised in Florida, and I'm speaking on my own behalf today.

[7:34:50] I respect that the land owners need financially, need a financially workable path,

[7:34:57] and I don't pretend to know everything this property can support.

[7:35:01] But across South Florida we invest tremendous effort and public resources repairing environmental damage after it occurs.

[7:35:10] Prevention must begin with decisions like this one.

[7:35:14] I appreciate hearing the applicants, the applicant consulted conservation organizations and explored alternatives.

[7:35:23] Before making permanent change, please ensure that for record that clearly identifies which alternatives were evaluated, why they were considered infeasible and whether a smaller conservation based use or stronger permanent conservation component remains possible.

[7:35:43] I understand today that a phase one assessment was completed and a phase two was requested.

[7:35:51] If that's sampling and analysis remain unfinished, please do not treat this property.

[7:35:57] The properties and environmental condition as fully settled.

[7:36:03] Panthers do not recognize property lines we draw on maps.

[7:36:08] Protected lands become islands when the pass between them disappear and those connecting lands are lifelines.

[7:36:18] They are living beings already navigating roads, shrinking habitat, and boundaries created by people.

[7:36:26] I feel the community is being asked to change the map before the principal environmental commitments are connected in binding plan.

[7:36:37] The land, water, wildlife and surrounding communities are all part of one living system.

[7:36:44] Because this decision will shape the land for generations, I ask not to approve this permanent

[7:36:50] change unless the proposed environmental benefits are tied to measurable baselines and

[7:36:55] forceful monitoring and binding communities.

[7:36:59] Thank you.

[7:37:00] Thank you.

[7:37:01] Next register speaker is Dan Shala. No, sir. Okay.

[7:37:06] Now you do it.

[7:37:12] You give her second to fix it.

[7:37:14] Sure, she.

[7:37:20] How many speakers we have left?

[7:37:22] Three in the room and seven on Zoom.

[7:37:49] Okay, good. Okay. We have time. Our next registered speaker is Elizabeth Barric, and she will be followed by Keylon Glenn.

[7:38:05] Yes, I'm sorry.

[7:38:09] Hi, good afternoon. My name is Elizabeth Barric. I live in Verona, walk. Thank you for your time and the long patience you're using with all of this talking.

[7:38:18] I wanted to bring a couple of points. People have made a lot of good points and obviously I think no matter how you vote we can all agree there's a lot of risk involved here.

[7:38:30] You know the question is risk versus benefit. Well, I'd like to offer you a visual. The people who are going to benefit from this golf course could all fit in this room.

[7:38:43] 265 to 275 members, so there's going to be a very few number of people benefit, a lot

[7:38:51] of people are going to get very rich off this, and there's going to be a lot of risk

[7:38:56] to the rest of us.

[7:38:58] The homeowner does have an option.

[7:39:01] If I sell my house, it's a residential property.

[7:39:05] I sell it as a residential property and I take the hit, whether it's good or bad, I take

[7:39:10] market price. This is agricultural land. The people who bought it knew it was agricultural land

[7:39:17] when they bought it. They've held it all these years. And they can sell it on the open market

[7:39:24] as agricultural land. I've looked for it on the MLS. I've looked for it for sale. I've not seen

[7:39:30] it on the open market. So it's really an unknown what the value of this land is outside of being

[7:39:38] And I think one of the things that concerns me the most is that the golf course developer said that the land never met the qualification should have never been sending land.

[7:39:54] Well, in my mind, it meets all the qualifications, wildlife corridors, crucial habitat,

[7:40:06] wetlands,

[7:40:09] contiguous preserves, and that right there is something that is really a big issue.

[7:40:15] It breaks up the preserves, and although we've had the discussion from the biologist for

[7:40:21] developer about how the golf course is just as beneficial as the archer to Wavla, well,

[7:40:30] are the growth. The difference is the factor that hasn't been discussed is what about all the

[7:40:36] activity on the land. The golf course is going to be busy all the time it's going to increase the

[7:40:42] traffic, agricultural land doesn't have that kind of activity on it, it's calmer, there's fewer people

[7:40:49] And, you know, one question that hasn't been answered, will this be fence to walled?

[7:40:55] I mean, this is like the most wealthy people in our country will be members, but yet, is it going to just be open for wildlife?

[7:41:03] And anybody else, me, if I want to take a walk through it, can I do that?

[7:41:08] I don't know.

[7:41:10] Do you?

[7:41:11] Thank you.

[7:41:13] Our next registered speaker is Kaylin Glenn, and she will be followed by Stephen Hines.

[7:41:18] Good afternoon commissioners and mine is a baby this time so hopefully this goes a little bit better but great to see y'all again

[7:41:24] I'm equally as tired as I'm sure you are

[7:41:26] My name is Kaylin Glenn and I'm a fifth generation cari county resident and I'm also a conservationist and incoming member on the call your soil and water district

[7:41:35] For seat one and I'm also involved in several other conservation community efforts here locally and much of it is around agriculture at working lands conservation and long term future use of this county

[7:41:46] some speaking from myself today, not for those folks, but I'm sure they aligned with my thoughts.

[7:41:51] My family was here before Carri County was called your county, and I came back here,

[7:41:55] I'm raising my children here, and I'm heavily invested in what this place looks like long term.

[7:41:59] I was here in January and spoke in opposition to the residential proposal on the same property,

[7:42:04] and I appreciated what this board did that day. You spent hours hearing from everyone involved,

[7:42:09] gave the landowners and the developer an opportunity to go back, explore another path,

[7:42:14] instead of moving forward with 423 homes.

[7:42:17] They did, and this proposal is clearly less intense,

[7:42:20] and I give them credit for coming back

[7:42:22] with something different.

[7:42:23] I'm asking you to deny it, though.

[7:42:25] I watched and listened in very intently

[7:42:27] on the August 20th Planning Commission hearing

[7:42:29] and appreciated, seriously, how they vetted it

[7:42:33] and had conversation around it.

[7:42:37] The surrounding landowners, and they spoke heavily

[7:42:40] about this, the environmental concerns,

[7:42:42] the live-local concern and what would happen if this proposal does not move forward.

[7:42:46] A lot of that discussion eventually turned into what might happen next.

[7:42:49] What if this application prevails on the live-local challenge?

[7:42:53] What if the county loses?

[7:42:55] What if something substantially more intense comes back?

[7:42:57] And I understand why that concerns people because it concerns me too.

[7:43:01] County staff have already made its determination and the applicant's live-local request.

[7:43:05] And that determination is being challenged.

[7:43:07] The much higher density scenario discussed the planning commission is not intimate today, but could be potential in the future, and I fear what I'm skipping ahead.

[7:43:18] Commissioner Saunders raised a concern in January that I really want to speak to about what this looks like when we keep piecemeal in the growth management plan.

[7:43:26] The rural fringe was created as a larger framework with how this county manages its transition between urban growth and its agricultural and rural and conservation lands.

[7:43:35] Property rights are part of that framework. I understand that such a screening has what it's done to this grove as someone in agriculture

[7:43:42] And I understand why landowners want to move on. They're all so farmers as we've heard from today and horse owners and

[7:43:48] People who's livelihoods depend on things and within this area that it would add pressure to and what you're being asked now today

[7:43:55] is to not approve the 423 homes, but a golf course with a lot of other oh gosh, okay

[7:44:00] My family's been here for a long time.

[7:44:02] I really appreciate everyone's due diligence,

[7:44:04] but this isn't a great fit for our county.

[7:44:06] And I'm worried about the precedent that it sets

[7:44:08] when we decide to continue to amend the men

[7:44:10] and make changes and allowances.

[7:44:12] And so thank you for your time.

[7:44:13] Thank you.

[7:44:15] Our next speaker is Steven Hines,

[7:44:17] and then we will go to Speaker Zanzu.

[7:44:21] You don't have one

[7:44:32] left.

[7:44:33] Yeah?

[7:44:33] You haven't heard about

[7:44:39] it.

[7:44:40] Anyway, so rather than you're holding up,

[7:44:42] you're holding up, you're holding up, you're holding up.

[7:44:42] I don't want to say it.

[7:44:43] Let him just, let him start the timer for you, sir.

[7:44:47] It's make sure we get it clear, so if we have everybody's speaker slips.

[7:44:52] Who's that?

[7:44:52] A curiosity.

[7:44:53] Did you submit on the other items?

[7:44:57] It's...

[7:44:57] I believe they're working enough of the...

[7:45:03] The speaker slips had been removed because the item had began. So I'll ask for your discretion here Mr. Chair.

[7:45:12] Did she thought out a difference? It's for like 11 BC and D.

[7:45:18] The intent on speaking on those, the intention was to speak on this.

[7:45:21] Okay. If the intention was to speak on this, let's let them go ahead and speak.

[7:45:25] Okay. Thank you, sir.

[7:45:28] All right.

[7:45:28] only three. Are you seeing that time? No, I'm not taking over a time. I was

[7:45:35] clarifying that he said I was the last speaker and she was calling to

[7:45:39] me that before you went to Zoom. We're gonna...

[7:45:44] We'll just... No you're not. We're gonna clear it.

[7:45:48] No we're gonna give it to you. Nice to me.

[7:45:52] It's interesting.

[7:45:55] For a year native, foreign race, I've traversed all through picking out there and we know

[7:46:02] that this is about it.

[7:46:03] I commend the developer on their redesign, trying to make it all appealing and minimize

[7:46:09] it's, you know, jaw and negative aspects of it, you know, they're doing their best, but

[7:46:14] that's because they know it doesn't belong there.

[7:46:17] They're pick this low piece and the low all this conservation that we need to protect.

[7:46:23] And we don't need to start a precedent here and now to allow this change when we know what is right.

[7:46:31] I hope in your hearts and you know the way that you need to vote on this to maintain what we

[7:46:36] as call your right residents what call your to be. And I'm not going to run on, I'll go ahead and

[7:46:48] So our next registered speaker would be calling hines? You're welcome.

[7:46:59] Yeah, I'm not really a public speaker. I'm just a resident of

[7:47:02] Call Your County that wants this over developing to stop. Slow it down. We've got no roads built for all of this

[7:47:09] excess building that's going on. It is a sending area. We do not want it changed. You keep squeezing and

[7:47:18] squeeze in and squeeze in and let them get away with developing over, developing and moving

[7:47:24] into protected conservation and sensitive lands.

[7:47:31] Our wildlife are equally

[7:47:35] indebted into these lands.

[7:47:38] These owners of this land had opportunity to sell it.

[7:47:42] They had opportunity to settle.

[7:47:44] They keep trying to push this agenda of changing the zoning that's protecting our wild

[7:47:50] life and boundaries against the buildout. It's getting out of hand. I wish you would

[7:47:58] vote no. Please. Thank you. Zoom. Yes, sir. We will move to our speakers on Zoom.

[7:48:08] Our first registered speaker on Zoom is Patty Whitehead. Patty, you should be receiving

[7:48:13] a prompt to unmute yourself and I see that you have Patty you have. Okay. I can you hear

[7:48:19] Are you okay commissioners?

[7:48:21] Yes.

[7:48:22] Yes.

[7:48:23] Great.

[7:48:24] Yes.

[7:48:24] I don't want to belabor some of the points tomorrow.

[7:48:26] We're going to raise.

[7:48:28] But I'll just start from the beginning.

[7:48:29] Of course, this has a heck of a lot more human presence in human activity than orange

[7:48:34] groves.

[7:48:35] Golf courses are also notorious for what are consumption.

[7:48:39] How many times do you raise a new cycle?

[7:48:42] Excuse me.

[7:48:43] Have we heard the argument made by local government growth advocates and developers that

[7:48:47] strictly from a water consumption quantification standpoint, golf courses have a far worse

[7:48:52] water budget than even mega data centers.

[7:48:56] Let's move on to the issue of, it was raised by some of the commissioners at the beginning,

[7:49:01] that, you know, oh, golf courses can support

[7:49:04] fray base for panthers.

[7:49:07] Well, not really.

[7:49:09] I mean, golf course managers really go out of their way to keep hogs and deer off golf

[7:49:15] of course, is they're incredibly destructive.

[7:49:19] And I mean, they eat off the ground in the Etrees.

[7:49:26] So it's just, it's antithetical to say that we're going

[7:49:29] to Dr. Snatch is going to track these creatures

[7:49:32] and then at the same time try and preserve the artificial landscape

[7:49:37] that they've poured millions of dollars into creating.

[7:49:40] So generally, fences at our areas where there is high

[7:49:45] of habitat value, we see, you know, tall, multi-strain, high-thed, so near-fencing.

[7:49:51] We see true protection, plastic tree guards, or wire cages around the

[7:49:55] saplings, ferment antlers, antler rubbing, damage during the summer, repellents,

[7:50:01] managers applied the catapult, voter, or case-based granular, only with repellents.

[7:50:06] Landscapes selection, superintendents use deer-resistant plantings around

[7:50:09] bowl and roll perimeter zones and finally I want to talk about the changes in the growth management

[7:50:15] plan that this usher is in and consequently the zoning changes. I mean to raise the sending land

[7:50:21] as a nation of these 160 acres there's a really really slippery slope potential whole wholesale

[7:50:27] degradation of the RF mode and RLSA programs. Rea citizens of South of Florida are constantly dealing

[7:50:34] with these shifting baselines when it comes to foundational growth management rules.

[7:50:39] There were implemented for some very worthy and very necessary land protection regions

[7:50:43] and rural sectors of our counties that are subsequently stripped away.

[7:50:48] We're living this now in the weak county where our density reduction in groundwater resource

[7:50:52] area and southeastly has been recently demolished, and I mean completely demolished by the

[7:50:56] currently B.O.C.C. to basically accommodate more and more growth and eliminate any cap on

[7:51:01] the power and capacity of sensitive lands needed for fresh, freshwater percolation for domestic and county wealth fields.

[7:51:08] And unimpleated open space for wildlife movement.

[7:51:11] Wildlife especially are native megafauna, don't live in isolated pockets of adequate habitat.

[7:51:15] They need to move across a broad non-human geography, to hunt, to farage, to find mates, and to den.

[7:51:21] Across extensive landscape scale ranges of each county and across county lines.

[7:51:27] And so the other speakers have pointed out the lands, there are lands, I guess, and the

[7:51:33] ease of the stable ponds that could potentially fall to the development if you allow this

[7:51:38] to go through this.

[7:51:39] Of course, you're setting a precedent.

[7:51:42] That's exactly what happened in our leading RGR.

[7:51:45] You know, you –

[7:51:47] Just to –

[7:51:48] Just to whom.

[7:51:48] Man, just to whom.

[7:51:50] Your time went off the f 것이 seconds together so just go ahead and finish up.

[7:51:54] How many minutes? What do I have left second? Yeah, nothing left. I'm sorry. That's what I'm saying.

[7:52:04] Our next registered speaker is Dylan Scott. Dylan, you should be receiving a prompt to unmute yourself.

[7:52:20] Dylan, I see you have unmuted yourself, Dylan.

[7:52:24] hey good evening commissarence thank you for allowing me to up in the speak

[7:52:28] I did just want

[7:52:30] To note, you know, like Commissioner Le Costa had mentioned earlier. You know, he asked a question about, it's paying just a growth management plan.

[7:52:39] And staff had said this would require significant efforts required to amend the growth management plan.

[7:52:45] I just want to caution the commission, you know, what is the point of a growth management plan or a land development code?

[7:52:52] It every time a developer asked for an amendment to it, the commission grants it.

[7:52:55] So please just consider that the weight of the decision to be held later today as you decide on this vote.

[7:53:08] And then I do want to just talk on, you know, there have been, I don't know, 40 public commenters today.

[7:53:13] And all of them have been in opposition to this. There have been no golfers here to comment or show support for this plan.

[7:53:22] So I'm just pleading with you. Please listen to the community members and the professionals that have background in conservation.

[7:53:31] You know, this is Panther habitat. This is breeding habitat. They may not dead.

[7:53:34] And there's orders that they are utilizing this land.

[7:53:41] And even with the All-Bond certification, there will still be negative environmental impacts from this golf course.

[7:53:47] You can put $5 million in the page, but at the end of the day it still will take.

[7:53:51] I would.

[7:53:53] Please, or ask that the Commission or landowner for two other options for the land at

[7:53:58] whether it be, you know, looking into a conservation collier again, or seeing if the property

[7:54:07] would be suitable for the role of family lands program or for the forever, but in closing,

[7:54:13] Please vote now on this proposal and furthermore GoGator's Beetle Miss.

[7:54:21] All right.

[7:54:22] Our next registered speaker is Katherine Donovan.

[7:54:26] Katherine, you should be receiving a prompt to unmute yourself.

[7:54:31] I see you've unmute yourself, Katherine. You have three minutes.

[7:54:34] Okay, thank you so much.

[7:54:36] I'm Kitty Donovan, and thank you for having me speak today.

[7:54:39] We've heard this property described today as old-dead orange grove, but a Florida

[7:54:44] Panther does not care whether we consider land beautiful, whether it wants to

[7:54:48] screw oranges, or whether it looks impressive on a development plan.

[7:54:54] The Panther itself does not know where protective public land ends and private land

[7:54:58] begins.

[7:54:59] What it means is connected habitat, room to hunt, breed, and move safely across South Florida.

[7:55:05] We're talking about one of the rarest mammals in America.

[7:55:09] The U.S. Wildlife and Fish Service described a single-breeding population remaining in South Florida.

[7:55:15] This often cited federal estimate is only 120 to 230 adult and sub-adult.

[7:55:30] Katherine, did we lose you?

[7:55:36] Going one more time, I believe, might have a technical issue, Katherine.

[7:55:44] All right, will we have another speaker?

[7:55:46] Yes.

[7:55:47] If we could, just keep Katherine on hold.

[7:55:52] Our next speaker would be Morgan walk-in-chall.

[7:55:57] Morgan, you should be receiving a prompt on yourself.

[7:56:01] I see you voted.

[7:56:02] Yes, you have three minutes.

[7:56:05] Okay, thank you for letting me speak.

[7:56:07] We are here asking you all to deny this development proposal.

[7:56:11] I heard some of the commissioners say we just want everything denied.

[7:56:14] But after 2,000 acres of panther have attacked out approved under Calder County's missioners,

[7:56:20] there should be no question in doubt that any Everglades development gets denied in full force.

[7:56:25] Not to mention many golf courses use glyphosate to maintain their properties,

[7:56:29] which will inevitably run for wildlife areas.

[7:56:32] Although I'm not sure the FWC has a problem with that particular thing that they are and have been spreading in our waterways for a very long time now.

[7:56:39] My question is, is what kind of precedent do we set to those who want to and are bulldozing our state for the right price?

[7:56:47] They're willing to sell out the lives of truth, where it ends, and all our wildlife.

[7:56:52] It truly makes me sick to my stomach to see what's happening to our state because of these terribly selfish decisions.

[7:56:57] It really is pure evil.

[7:56:59] And I think to myself, very often, if there's a spot you love and role or protective Florida, that this is your warning, they're coming for it.

[7:57:06] they will take it, their greed literally has no bounds and their cup is always running empty.

[7:57:12] Our state is getting over 100,000 acres of land developed every single year.

[7:57:18] Which begs the question, when will our commissioners be a public servant rather than a

[7:57:22] servant to developers and the whims of the FWC?

[7:57:25] Truly, I hope God has more mercy on these politicians than they have had while destroying

[7:57:29] our state.

[7:57:31] We are seeing our beautiful state get turned into a concrete jungle.

[7:57:34] The truth is, Americans are spending about 90% of their life inside because we are losing

[7:57:40] green spaces rapidly.

[7:57:43] With that being said, we are begging you to do the right thing and deny the settlement.

[7:57:47] The public will not keep voting and commissioners who continue to allow this pro-development

[7:57:51] ideology.

[7:57:52] Thank you.

[7:57:54] Thank you.

[7:57:55] Our next registered speaker is Ryan Young.

[7:57:58] Ryan, you should be receiving a prompt to unmute yourself.

[7:58:02] I see you have Ryan, do you have three minutes.

[7:58:06] Good afternoon.

[7:58:07] Can everybody hear me okay?

[7:58:10] Yes, sir.

[7:58:11] Thank you.

[7:58:12] My name's Ryan Young.

[7:58:13] I own an operating, rising tide explorers,

[7:58:15] as well as Naples, Outfitters, and Kaya Company.

[7:58:18] Here in Colored County.

[7:58:19] This is where I live, work.

[7:58:20] And I'm raising my family right here in these Naples.

[7:58:23] And earlier today, I sent all the commissioners

[7:58:25] are written summary of a potential third path.

[7:58:28] I recognize that the Smith's family needs a fair and timely

[7:58:31] outcome and I respect the current applicants position and investment and Commissioner

[7:58:35] LaCastro, I heard you're concerned that prior alternatives lack funding and

[7:58:39] execution and that's a fair assessment. I want to clarify that the

[7:58:43] plant cent this morning is not a final funded offer today, but I'm asking the

[7:58:47] board to treat. This is an early concept as one regardless of the existing

[7:58:52] interests from private capital and operating partners that we've already gathered.

[7:58:56] So rather than a concept composed, sorry,

[7:59:02] to never mind, I'm stumbling.

[7:59:04] I'm late in bringing this concept because it only took shape

[7:59:07] after hearing the lack of agricultural

[7:59:09] centered alternatives being presented.

[7:59:11] After studying the property, conservation tools,

[7:59:14] and operating models, I felt that should be raised

[7:59:16] due to legitimate potential to combine private investment

[7:59:20] and conservation tools to create a lasting resource

[7:59:22] to serve the community as a whole

[7:59:24] and provide a competitive offer for the family where conservation offers alone struggle to compete with development offers.

[7:59:30] I've built this concept that would combine permanent conservation, diversified working agriculture, private investment, and a limited agritorism area.

[7:59:39] Most of the property would remain diversified and improve agricultural operation, habitat water, management land, or restoration, and a smaller area could support an upgraded diversified farm market, farm to table.

[7:59:52] food operation, education with eco and adretorism opportunities, a conservative old Florida

[7:59:58] event space and very limited.

[8:00:00] It had farmsday lodging that would help fund the farm and stewardship of the land. The goals not

[8:00:05] to preserve the current Business Model unchanged or ask the family to sacrifice the land value

[8:00:10] a determined whether conservation participation, working land protection, private capital can

[8:00:15] provide a dignified exit while preserving families like to see an appease of old Florida.

[8:00:20] I understand there's a lot more work that we need to go into this, but I wanted to put this on

[8:00:25] table while there was still time, and this would require either an extension or denying the

[8:00:31] current proposal to allow for more opportunities to be presented that might check all of

[8:00:37] the boxes and satisfy a lot of different parties with something that would serve the community.

[8:00:44] And I didn't want to leave this here without presenting it because that would be an opportunity

[8:00:49] lost and I hope that you'll consider reviewing it and that the parties involved with this

[8:00:56] project might be open to considering a third alternative. Thank you.

[8:01:01] Thank you. Our next speaker is Nancy Rose Spectre. Nancy, you should be receiving a prompt to

[8:01:08] unmute yourself. I see that you have Nancy, you have three minutes.

[8:01:15] All right, good afternoon, almost evening commissioners, for the record, my name is Nancy Rose

[8:01:22] Spector, I'm a resident of Markle Island, and I strongly urge you to vote no on items

[8:01:27] 90 in D. The applicant earlier conceded on the record that sending lands are essential,

[8:01:34] and that you cannot have a functioning transfer of development rights program without them.

[8:01:40] Yet his justification to circumvent that rule is claiming that this parcel was never characterized correctly.

[8:01:48] That argument is legally baseless.

[8:01:51] Call your county's world fringe mixed use district was mapped on a landscape scale to direct intensive uses away from fragile ecosystems, connecting Pikaigan's strand state forest.

[8:02:02] Establishing a precedent that 169 acres were, quote, never characterized correctly, just

[8:02:10] because an agricultural decline and a developed or wants a golf course caused the integrity

[8:02:15] of the entire countrywide TDR framework to collapse.

[8:02:19] The applicant's presentation further proves this project is anything but environmentally sensitive.

[8:02:26] First, commercial golf courses and their maintenance hubs rely heavily on chemical controls

[8:02:32] including second-generation anti-quadulent brodoin decides.

[8:02:36] Even under Audubon International Guidelines,

[8:02:38] brodoin decides are permitted.

[8:02:40] When poisoned rodents wander into roughs and open-ground,

[8:02:44] secondary bio-accumulation directly threatens native raptors,

[8:02:48] including our local burrowing owls, hawks, and ospreys,

[8:02:52] as well as apex predators hunting adjacent to state lands,

[8:02:55] like the Panthers.

[8:02:57] Second, their presentation confirms this entire commercial footprint,

[8:03:01] A 18-hole golf course, clubhouse, maintenance facilities, and 10 rental cottages will run entirely on private, onsite, well-inceptic.

[8:03:12] High-volume groundwater pumping and commercial septic drain fields inside the Bell-Mead hydrological enhancement overlay directly threatened regional water quality and sheet flow restoration.

[8:03:23] Third, while touting 70% open space, they admit to preserving only 35% native vegetation.

[8:03:33] In a natural resource protection overlay, clear-cut graded fairways are not ecological conservation.

[8:03:40] Baseline property rights guarantee the uses permitted under existing zoning, not the growth management plan amendment.

[8:03:48] The baseline world zoning of one home for 40 acres protects the owners equity through the TDR credits, the applicant acknowledged.

[8:03:57] That allows four homes, not an intensive resort complex on a private set.

[8:04:03] Please uphold the growth management plan, protecting our sending lands, and vote no on items 9C90.

[8:04:10] Thank you very much.

[8:04:11] Thank you.

[8:04:12] Our final registered speaker on this item is Matthew Schwartz. Matthew, you should be receiving a prompt to unmute yourself.

[8:04:23] I see that you have it on mute.

[8:04:25] Yes, sir.

[8:04:25] Okay, great. Thanks. Good afternoon.

[8:04:27] Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening.

[8:04:30] Good evening.

[8:04:31] Matthew Schwartz for South Florida Wildlands Association.

[8:04:35] I better to paragraph to my prepared comments and response to some of the earlier Q&A.

[8:04:39] The environmental expert who spoke earlier about Panther Habitat and Denning and stated to you that

[8:04:45] Panthers prefer wetlands for Denning provided clearly incorrect information, according

[8:04:49] to every agency and scientists that studies and manages Panthers, Panthers prefer uplens that

[8:04:55] do not flood for all life processes, and especially for Denning. Wetlands that often flood

[8:05:00] would rank very low on a female Panthers choice of a den site. If the site has ditches for

[8:05:05] a cultural drainage that would create a drier environment

[8:05:08] for denting and all-life activities.

[8:05:10] In fact, this site and the surrounding lands

[8:05:12] is loaded with tants or telemetry,

[8:05:15] and that is only from the small percentage of panthers

[8:05:17] that are actually a colleague.

[8:05:18] A lack of human occupancy on this site,

[8:05:20] especially if it became a conservation call your property,

[8:05:24] is a major factor that determines quality

[8:05:26] pantor habitat, and that today's discussion completely overlooked.

[8:05:30] Finally, I or a panther scientist could explain

[8:05:33] what primary pantor habitat is,

[8:05:35] and means for a commission that should already understand that concept, that concept and detail,

[8:05:41] since you folks are actually making the most important decisions that can be made for

[8:05:45] at state-animal, here in ground zero, call your county.

[8:05:48] You folks make those decisions, but we need much more time than I have to explain Panther

[8:05:53] habitat and primary habitat.

[8:05:55] Unfortunately, that lack of actual Panther science here is a big deficiency in this decision

[8:06:00] discussion. But the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has designated this land as primary

[8:06:06] plant-to-habitat for a reason. I'll go back to my original comments. At the outset, the

[8:06:11] only reason we're here today is because the Commission, while opposed to 423 new homes

[8:06:16] on this 169th site, Acrecyte, back in January, never though that's voted to continue it and

[8:06:24] consider an alternative use. That's now the golf course that we're discussing today.

[8:06:28] What is up with that? I've attended many commission and planning commission meetings involving

[8:06:33] developments that I know are going to degrade the ecology of Calier County and further

[8:06:38] threaten the tiny amount of habitat at our state animal that Florida plant has left. River

[8:06:42] grass, long water, bell motor, bell mar, right shore of the list goes on and on. It's tens

[8:06:48] of thousands of acres of habitat, somebody said two thousand tens of thousands. Calier County

[8:06:52] is around zero for the only poop population left in the entire eastern United States and

[8:06:57] people all around the U.S. pay attention to the decisions that are being made here.

[8:07:01] I'm often told that my comments are out of step with the circumstances because the

[8:07:06] programs created by the county, including the RLSA, and now the RFM UD, allow these developments.

[8:07:12] I'm also told to take my concerns to Larry Williams or the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

[8:07:16] I did. And currently, I'm at a federal lawsuit with the service over their continued

[8:07:21] permitting of development after development and panther habitat without adequately

[8:07:25] adequately considering cumulative impact to this disease.

[8:07:29] When a project comes

[8:07:30] I don't get to say that the land never should have been designated that way, that it should have been sending lands, or ask you to simply change the designation.

[8:07:39] And when I'm done speaking usually, Mr. Nianovitch is called to speak, the applicant's attorney will say, well, the opponents don't like the program.

[8:07:46] But I say times out.

[8:07:48] We'll do it.

[8:07:49] I will just close on this. Mr. Nianovitch doesn't like the program and is asking you to change it simply to further his client's economic interest.

[8:07:58] The parcel is rural, unpopulated land, the Jason's the pick you can scan, primary plant the habitat, it should be left

[8:08:04] As is, you have no need to designate this for the developer and the his his his legal team. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Chair

[8:08:13] Katherine Donovan who the call dropped out on earlier has returned if I may take her. How many minutes you have left?

[8:08:22] It's hard to determine, isn't it?

[8:08:25] About two.

[8:08:26] You were seeing the monitor?

[8:08:27] So you got about two men?

[8:08:29] Two?

[8:08:29] Okay.

[8:08:30] From my referee in the second row.

[8:08:31] Can't prove to be receiving a prompt to 100 meters self-catter?

[8:08:34] I get by once again.

[8:08:35] Thank you so much.

[8:08:36] I was on hold since this morning.

[8:08:38] And my kids were playing hide and seek and kicked out the internet.

[8:08:41] I was about to have hard time.

[8:08:43] I'll just do my quick ending.

[8:08:45] The National Park Service estimated that they're used to be 1,360 Panthers.

[8:08:50] the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service projected between 2000 and 4000 adult panthers.

[8:08:56] We now have 200, and we're seriously considering building on their dozen native habitat.

[8:09:03] Marjorie Stone and Douglas Warnford are about exactly this kind of decision. She wrote,

[8:09:08] there's only one Everglades in the world to widely destroy it for building purposes

[8:09:14] and with the mistaken idea of development,

[8:09:16] It's to wipe out one of the greatest factors of our regional life.

[8:09:21] So, commissioners, I'm asking please to reject this offer, no reclassifying, no rezoning

[8:09:28] of this unused orange grove.

[8:09:31] It's perfect just the way it is.

[8:09:33] Give our panthers the 200 remaining or however many.

[8:09:37] Somewhere left to go, somewhere left to breed, somewhere left to go, not a golf course.

[8:09:42] Thank you.

[8:09:42] Thanks for giving me a second chance.

[8:09:44] All right, thank you. That was our final register speaker. All righty. Typically we

[8:09:51] would like to, do you need a break before we do this? Let's finish it up. Hey, hey, hey,

[8:10:00] I got a corporate reporter here. It's been typing away. I got to check with her, all right,

[8:10:03] guys.

[8:10:04] This is actually my question. Okay, we're going to finish it up. Yeah, I won't be long,

[8:10:08] but I do need to get back to my presentation. I want to point out a couple of things. I

[8:10:13] But I think the property that the woman who showed the videos was referring to was Karina

[8:10:21] Court, correct Karina, which is in which is verbal.

[8:10:27] Which I find it ironic that the pants that was perfectly comfortable walking through her

[8:10:32] backyard or someone's backyard and somehow that pants was going to be uncomfortable walking

[8:10:38] through a deserted golf course at night.

[8:10:41] So to copyright and say that my golf course when my client's proposed golf course is somehow interfering with the panther that was perfectly comfortable

[8:10:50] walking through a residential community and I think we have on my

[8:10:59] I gave you I gave you your turn to speak. It's my turn

[8:11:04] Yeah, Korean Accord is a residential development and we're gonna be a totally

[8:11:10] open golf course. We are not interfering with the panther's ability to roam at night when they're

[8:11:19] up and about doing their activities. This is not a pristine piece of property. This is an

[8:11:40] waters. We're going to have a golf course that will be required to clean up through the water

[8:11:47] management system, whatever chemicals that are used on the golf course before they're dispersed

[8:11:53] into the surrounding environment.

[8:11:59] Someone talked about a water budget. Well, the water budget

[8:12:03] for the citrus growth is higher than the water budget than the golf course. So there's a reduction

[8:12:08] and water use related to going from the citrus grove to the golf course.

[8:12:17] There will be express any credentials when they spoke.

[8:12:21] So I don't know if they were just reading from the internet, did an AI search.

[8:12:26] But the experts, who know about this, including your own experts,

[8:12:32] Mike Bozi and Jamie Cook all have testified that this is an appropriate use in the sending

[8:12:43] areas, and this is not unprecedented.

[8:12:49] For those of you who played hideout golf course,

[8:12:52] The South portion of high-doubt golf course is designated sending lands.

[8:12:59] So to come up here and say, a golf course is not appropriate in sending lands, isn't

[8:13:06] familiar with or existing growth management plan.

[8:13:10] So high-doubt golf course is part of the sending lands.

[8:13:13] Why?

[8:13:13] It was compatible.

[8:13:15] Our top proposed golf course is compatible with what is around it.

[8:13:22] We're not, and I've said this early on, we are not going to be a residential development.

[8:13:28] If you want us to, but indeed restriction on there, this says we're not going to build residential,

[8:13:34] we won't build residential.

[8:13:37] I don't know how to make it any clearer.

[8:13:39] What we proposed is a use that is less intensive that is consistent with the sending areas

[8:13:46] as testified to by your own staff.

[8:13:49] And we're requesting, I'm not going to go point by point,

[8:13:52] or what the neighbors are listening to specific questions.

[8:13:55] We've proposed water management fixes to the area

[8:14:00] by the two culverts and to assist with our neighbor,

[8:14:06] to the south, and their water management issues.

[8:14:11] What we're proposing is consistent with the surrounding

[8:14:14] sending lands. It's an environmental upgrade from what's there today, and we're requesting that the Board of

[8:14:21] County Commissioners approve both our gross management plan amendment and our resound. You could take the

[8:14:28] words, you could take a see off. I don't care what kind of a PUD you call it. You want to call it a golf course

[8:14:33] PUD. That's what we are. We're a golf course. We're not a residential development. We're not going,

[8:14:38] we're not a commercial development. We're not going to be a live local act project. And with that,

[8:14:43] We're here to answer any specific questions you may have with regard to our proposed project.

[8:14:51] Mr. Saunders.

[8:14:52] Just a couple of questions for Mr. Yvonnevitt.

[8:14:55] The clubhouse, I'm sure it's in the materials, but I just don't recall.

[8:15:00] I assume there will be a restaurant associated with that. Can you describe kind of what the clubhouse, so it will be a clubhouse that serves the members of their guests all day?

[8:15:10] No, I understand that it's a clubhouse serving members of the guests all day.

[8:15:14] What do we do with the whole of the food service?

[8:15:17] The described a little bit more for me. A number of seats, for example, in the restaurant. How big is this? I'm just curious.

[8:15:22] We haven't designed it yet, Commissioner Saunders, but they're not, you're not going to have all 300 people there at the same time, the members.

[8:15:31] So it'll be, it'll be a restaurant or appropriately sized.

[8:15:35] I'm trying to give you some examples.

[8:15:37] I don't have, have you been to, have you been to the clubhouse that hide out?

[8:15:40] No, of course.

[8:15:42] It's a relatively small, it's not, let me, it's not coil West.

[8:15:47] It's not that type of clubhouse.

[8:15:48] It's not a gray oak clubhouse.

[8:15:50] It's a much smaller facility focused on the membership.

[8:15:54] It's not that same level of size of facility.

[8:15:58] I'm sure you've been to those located.

[8:16:00] I mean, there is an ask if you're talking about

[8:16:02] memberships at $300,000, $400,000, the members are going to expect

[8:16:08] I would assume some fairly nice facilities in addition

[8:16:14] into the nice Greenland and the guiding, for the facilities,

[8:16:20] I can, it's going to be in, or since you probably

[8:16:25] not the way to hire that, I've been fortunate

[8:16:27] to go play coups upon a couple of times.

[8:16:30] You'll be surprised that the clubhouse facility

[8:16:33] is not that large.

[8:16:35] It has a nice restaurant, actually most people

[8:16:38] don't even eat in the restaurant that they have.

[8:16:40] You eat in the locker room, where it's very cozy,

[8:16:43] And he spent a lot of money to be a member there, but you get, you get your food and your

[8:16:48] beverages, it's a small bar.

[8:16:50] It's not a big grand flood house that you might imagine.

[8:16:54] That's associated with a golf course that you pay a lot of money to be a member.

[8:17:00] And all of this will be on septic and, well, it'll be appropriate size to be on septic

[8:17:06] and well, yes.

[8:17:07] I have no other questions right now, Mr. Chairman, okay, Mr. LaCastra.

[8:17:11] Thank you, Chairman.

[8:17:12] Mr. Ivanovich, I was just going to, did you need a minute?

[8:17:16] No, I just want to make a client to come up closer to some case to the questions I need to help.

[8:17:20] You know, the county exhausts it all in possible options that we can.

[8:17:23] It's not our job to sell this property, but I think we went above and beyond.

[8:17:27] You know, not only did we not support the 423 houses.

[8:17:31] We pursued conservation collar.

[8:17:33] Over an eight million dollar offer.

[8:17:35] We shook the trees as best we could with owners and investors and none of those paned out.

[8:17:42] I guess my question is, before you defaulted, it's just, you know, the golf court

[8:17:46] option did your owner, especially since they've lived here for so long, I got to think

[8:17:51] they know, you know, the agricultural community really well, and they're very well connected.

[8:17:57] They explore or entertain any other options to sell this property and people were saying,

[8:18:04] I didn't see it on the MLS list thing, but a lot of times that's not how big pieces of property get sold.

[8:18:09] But was there any kind of conversation that you were going or had to try to see if anybody wanted to take over the orange growth, turn it into something else?

[8:18:16] Well, to take it over and sell it to someone else would have required someone to clear out the groves and replant it with something else.

[8:18:26] So they know, because they're in the farming business, that that was not going to not going to return any type of reasonable investment.

[8:18:33] I mean, I assume with their connections, I mean,

[8:18:36] if somebody was interested, they would have been banging on their door,

[8:18:39] and knowing that they were wanting a bail from the orange grove,

[8:18:42] and if somebody, and their line of work was interested,

[8:18:47] there would have been some sort of their risk.

[8:18:49] I guess my final question, not my final,

[8:18:53] but they didn't turn down any offers before they saw it or not.

[8:18:57] Other than the concentration collar offer,

[8:19:00] it was the only thing that they've turned down,

[8:19:01] And I'm still waiting for the offer from Brad's clients.

[8:19:04] Yeah, I'm sorry.

[8:19:05] I'm still waiting for the offer from Brad's.

[8:19:08] Mr. Cornel.

[8:19:09] Mr. Cornel.

[8:19:10] Well, I mean, and I think they did reach out to their people, but a lot of people have really great

[8:19:15] ideas, but not the cash flow.

[8:19:18] You know, one thing I will say about golf courses is, I mean, when people say they're not needed.

[8:19:23] Our golf courses really needed.

[8:19:25] I mean, we get the same question about a tangible housing.

[8:19:28] When people say, oh, you've over-built it to death.

[8:19:30] minute we've kind of ribbon on it is a weightless of 400 so I will say from what I know

[8:19:35] from the golf courses in District 1 and I'm saying I'm sitting here supporting this but

[8:19:39] just to speak on the fact there is a two or three year weight I mean when the when

[8:19:43] Habiscus turns into the lantern they already have more people that are interested in the

[8:19:48] lantern and you know it's not for us to say they can't or can't do that so um there is I

[8:19:53] know some people that don't you know maybe don't believe the the facts there but you know

[8:19:59] where we see that all the time and you know we I may have loved how

[8:20:03] biscuits to say a public off course but you know we don't have the legal

[8:20:06] right to tell somebody what to do with their property.

[8:20:10] I will tell you the

[8:20:11] one thing I'm struggling with is I wouldn't support this at all with the

[8:20:17] cottages and and here's why and here's why. First of all I like the idea

[8:20:23] that it it give this a more definitive unless I misunderstood our county

[8:20:27] attorney gives us a more definitive way to prevent, prevent growth, prevent,

[8:20:32] live local to creep in.

[8:20:34] It's more of a guarantee.

[8:20:37] And I guess there's never any guarantees because your attorney could take us to court,

[8:20:42] regardless of what we decide here and say, you know what?

[8:20:44] I think the 423 homes should have been approved.

[8:20:46] And so I try to play the game with the golf course,

[8:20:49] with conservation collier and let's take the houses to court.

[8:20:54] And I don't know what our attorney thinks,

[8:20:55] but there's always a chance that could be overturned.

[8:20:58] But let me get back to the cottages.

[8:21:00] So protecting us from local is a big thing on my list.

[8:21:05] I don't think they're required.

[8:21:06] I think they're a nice to have, not a must have.

[8:21:09] I think regardless of the footprint,

[8:21:12] 10, 4 bedroom cottages.

[8:21:14] Okay, I have a 3 bedroom house in Marko Island,

[8:21:17] and it's a original deltone at home.

[8:21:19] So it's tiny, but if you put 10 of them in a row,

[8:21:22] that's a pretty big footprint.

[8:21:25] And so I think, but not having the cottages, you would have even, I'm still not

[8:21:30] saying I'm supporting this, but I'm trying to brainstorm my way through the things that

[8:21:33] I'm struggling with or that I think are showstoppers for me, and I think it would open

[8:21:37] up more space, and it would be more of a natural habitat, not ten buildings, and then of course

[8:21:43] now we're talking, of course you got the club house in the restaurant, I would at least

[8:21:46] limit the structures on the property.

[8:21:50] added to that if you had the ten cottages, I mean, I've played golf at a lot of different places

[8:21:56] then you spend the night there, you know, you don't play golf and go to bed, you know, you have a great time,

[8:22:01] you're outside, lights are all lit up. So if we're saying that, you know, this golf course would create a natural habitat,

[8:22:08] I think ten four bedroom cottages is a significant amount of people and I bet they would always be full, especially during season.

[8:22:18] You know, much like we see on Marco Island like I said with the lights, with the turtles, I think that type of activity would, would prohibit us looking at it as, and you know, a, you know, a

[8:22:30] A natural habitat in the evening, and there was even some things written on one. You know, when the sun goes down, then obviously on the golfer stop, and then the animals, you know, they're, they're, they're, they'll be walking all over the golf course. I think the cottages could, could be a significant, could significantly hamper that.

[8:22:49] You know, golfers can obviously come and stay elsewhere. We got plenty of places within a stone's road.

[8:22:57] So there's plenty of places around that would create business, and then, you know, similar to what I said before, you know, you talk about these Panthers and other wild life being nocturnal. So the less lights that would be on heck, I'm getting complaints right now for some apartment complexes that are in that same sort of location that the lights and the parking lots are too bright, and that they do get wild life that cut through certain areas.

[8:23:23] So the cottages for me are our no-go and unless I hear something, you know, totally out of blue here from my colleagues, but, you know, that's something that I just think is a nice to have, not a much to have, and it would limit the construction, it would limit the evening activities, it would protect us from live local. But that would only be if we approved this. If I'm an overall no vote, then I don't really care about cottages because I'd be a no vote across the board.

[8:23:52] But I don't know what your, you know, your regal room is on the cottages, but I wouldn't

[8:23:57] support this at all with those structures being built, you know, with those cottages being

[8:24:02] on there.

[8:24:02] For the reasons I mentioned.

[8:24:04] And I think I said early on, one of the options was to remove cottages altogether.

[8:24:10] If that's a concern about interfering with the wildlife at night or somehow leading

[8:24:15] to a liberal local acclaim, the cottages are a nice amenity for the members, but they're

[8:24:22] not an essential amenity for the members.

[8:24:25] So we're willing to remove the 10 transient cottages from both the complement amendment and

[8:24:33] the pediatric.

[8:24:33] Let me see this one last question about the orange grove, I mean obviously it's your client,

[8:24:38] and so I haven't been out there a thousand times, I've been out there.

[8:24:43] I would assume they get plenty of deliveries. I remember the, I think it was the sun when I had my

[8:24:49] Four and a half hour town hall meeting at

[8:24:52] Veronica Walk, where's my Veronica Walk people you all remember that did you stay who's state to the end, right?

[8:24:57] I'm catching all these spheres from and Trinity Scott was they're catching all these spheres and

[8:25:02] Rocks from the Veronica Walk people and we're not even even close to discussing this and then I come to find out the son of the orange Grove owner

[8:25:10] is sitting in the back the entire time and then comes up to me when it's over and I said,

[8:25:15] buddy, you could have walked up here and sort of helped me out a little bit in the conversation,

[8:25:23] but that didn't happen. But one of the things he did say is he says a lot of people love the

[8:25:28] orange grove and they come here to buy this, that and I don't want to, I might be over summarizing,

[8:25:35] but what I remember sort of hearing is the vast majority of what we sell at the orange grove

[8:25:39] isn't grown there, the trees are sort of a photo op and everything else is sort of brought in.

[8:25:47] So it's not like even though we say it's a dead orange grove or whatnot, it really is just a storm or

[8:25:51] shop.

[8:25:52] So it gets me to my point that I would expect there's a fair amount of truck traffic that's

[8:25:56] delivering all the things that are keeping that place, you know, a float.

[8:26:01] Everybody's coming up here saying how much they enjoy the orange grove.

[8:26:04] So I don't know how many customers they see a day.

[8:26:06] But it sounds like a fair amount based on it's about a hundred fifty cars a day

[8:26:11] You know for people coming there to buy

[8:26:14] Plus deliveries and all those kind of things so similar it's again, and I didn't we can count any of that

[8:26:20] In fact or any of that in to the golf course

[8:26:24] Traffic you know, I think Commissioner Saunders asked me early on. What did I think the average number of rounds

[8:26:28] At a typical day is 70 to 90 rounds, which is not a lot a lot of golf

[8:26:33] It's really not a lot of, it's not a lot of cars going up and down that road.

[8:26:38] It's probably almost a wash from what's probably there today.

[8:26:41] In the off season, was there any discussion, I don't know, like you said, you know, I'm

[8:26:46] blue prints of the course, you haven't done this deep dive, you just pitched in the idea.

[8:26:49] But was there any conversation that, hey, we've got these 300 members, but a lot of them

[8:26:53] are going to be seasonal, that the course could possibly be open to the public and the

[8:26:57] off season, because I mean, I'm, you know, people can play like a laily the whole, whenever

[8:27:01] they want.

[8:27:01] But most of these courses, and probably this course as well, are closer to the summer, as

[8:27:07] when they do their—oh, closed in the summer, usually they close in the summer to do their

[8:27:11] renovations, or rehabilitation, or, you know, of course, you know, get it ready for the next

[8:27:16] to the next season.

[8:27:17] A lot of these courses are closed in the summer anyway, so there's a limited golf season

[8:27:26] if you will at these types of courses.

[8:27:30] Well, one thing I will say is our direction to you was to shake the trees as hard as we

[8:27:35] were shaking them and one of the biggest, the list of big pushbacks when we were in here

[8:27:41] talking about the 423 houses was people hated the traffic because of course 423 houses

[8:27:46] were generated in a fair amount of traffic that in the construction of the density of the urban

[8:27:52] sprawl.

[8:27:52] I mean, I will say, you know, you brought us something that minimizes or or or eliminates, you know, all those things, but I'm still struggling with some, some things in here and I still think, you know, we just before you were in here, we made a decision on the growth management plan for something that was way smaller than this.

[8:28:11] And it seemed like we all had some issues that, you know, we were going to be violating the growth management plan for for a totally different project, but it had a lot less moving parts.

[8:28:19] And so even though I know what Mr. Bozi said that as far as moving parts go, this one is a lot less than what it could be.

[8:28:28] We're still having to override quite a few things to say yes to this.

[8:28:34] Not to say that we haven't done that in the past.

[8:28:37] If we thought it was in the best interest of the county and the landowner and whatnot,

[8:28:42] but I'm struggling with those sort of things.

[8:28:44] Maybe that sets the table a little bit from my colleagues to sort of pick up where I left off.

[8:28:49] But those are the things on my short list that are big speed bumps for me to approve this.

[8:28:56] Mr. Hall, thank you, Chairman.

[8:28:59] I can sum that my comments up in 60 seconds.

[8:29:04] I won't support the 10 cottages, so I'm glad to hear you say you can do it out that.

[8:29:09] I will support the golf course, and I think it's a super low impact.

[8:29:12] It's way better than 423 homes.

[8:29:15] I do want to address the comments about conservation carrier.

[8:29:20] Nobody's listening.

[8:29:22] You got your own opinions and you're going to stick to them, but the truth is, conservation

[8:29:26] carrier is well funded.

[8:29:28] We didn't buy this property from conservation carrier because we took 29 million or the conservation

[8:29:36] carrier program doesn't have any money.

[8:29:38] We couldn't buy the property because the seller wasn't willing to cooperate.

[8:29:45] And that's what I've said all along.

[8:29:47] It's not funding.

[8:29:49] We're subject to willing sellers.

[8:29:51] So I hope you get that.

[8:29:54] And I hope you record it, and I hope you get it, and you watch it again.

[8:29:58] Controversion Collier is well-funded.

[8:30:00] It's not has anything to do with us not being able to purchase. I will support the project without the houses.

[8:30:11] Mr. McDaniel.

[8:30:13] I think that was longer than 60 cents.

[8:30:16] I got a lot of track of time, a long time ago.

[8:30:20] I got a, in precept, I'm in support of the project.

[8:30:27] The public benefit here, and I have talked about this at Nazium, you have, we have an enormous

[8:30:33] amount of flooding on the north side of Sabel Palm, the water conveyance coming from

[8:30:37] Sabel, north of Sabel Palm underneath isn't there.

[8:30:42] You've committed to a system, and I'd like the 90-day provision for the developer at Tamarindow

[8:30:50] to get with you, to negotiate, to take their excess water, that's imperative for that

[8:30:56] community.

[8:30:57] We have a huge issue with Tamarind, or you know this as well, they just flooded last

[8:31:01] weekend with that little shower that we had last weekend.

[8:31:06] So, not that they don't have other internal issues, but the fact that you'll take that water,

[8:31:11] the fact that you'll work with them and do the plumbing underneath, sable palm road to allow

[8:31:16] for that convinced. The fact that you'll take that water as it flows out, bring it through

[8:31:21] your lake systems, and then have it in a control structure outlet. We're going to call

[8:31:27] Mr. Hall said, having a control structure is a far better way to disperse water than it

[8:31:35] is the current methodology and the pump. I'm totally fine if we eliminate, I wasn't necessarily

[8:31:44] opposition of the cottages, but I don't ever want to trigger the capacity for somebody to come and do the

[8:31:51] live local.

[8:31:53] I want

[8:31:58] to hear that you're going to pay your proportion at share when traffic says a signal

[8:32:03] can go. I say we'll palm in 951. I don't know that you said you would do that. I will pay our 57 trips worth of traffic signal.

[8:32:11] maybe more. That's what I'm supposed to share. Well, and does that 57 trips count the

[8:32:18] trips in and out for deliveries and food? That's the peak hour trips is 57 hours.

[8:32:23] How ever Trinity normally counts? If she doesn't have a daily trip, we'll do it on a daily trip.

[8:32:28] So I'll get the help Trinity count your trips. No, however, Trinity counts. Okay, okay, okay,

[8:32:34] so you will pay your proportion that's there on that. And then since you don't really have a plan,

[8:32:41] Let's just make a plan with regard to the Clubhouse Commissioner Saunders asked,

[8:32:48] I know when I joined my club, we were in a double-wide trailer for five years and quite

[8:32:56] happy and had lockers and food and everything else in there.

[8:33:00] So let's limit the Clubhouse to not exceed 10,000 feet.

[8:33:07] I don't have my guy here to where I can complete it.

[8:33:11] that a little bit of certainty so that we're not gonna end up with a Taj Mahal in there

[8:33:15] at some stage.

[8:33:18] In 10,000 feet to 10th, well it is.

[8:33:22] 10,000 square foot, back to Clubhouse.

[8:33:24] Yes.

[8:33:25] That's what it was like.

[8:33:26] The court house was originally.

[8:33:28] It made things to everything else to separate.

[8:33:29] I talked about the Clubhouse facilities where people are going to be coming and having to do whatever it is to do it.

[8:33:35] So we limit that add some certainty to one of the questions that you could.

[8:33:41] answer or so. And you are going to do the written notice for the prescribed burns to the

[8:33:48] membership. Yes. When they join, you'll do that. Okay. That's all I had.

[8:33:55] Mr. Caster, follow up. If we did away with the cottages, then the trips up and down that road

[8:34:01] would increase because instead of somebody spending the night in park in the car and leaving it there

[8:34:05] for two or three nights now, they got to go back and forth if they want to play the whole weekend.

[8:34:08] I remember my 57 trips was assuming I was a regular golf course and not a private golf course.

[8:34:14] It was over a statement. It was an overstatement of trips in the first place.

[8:34:19] Because the way the IT manual is they lump, they lump public golf courses, residential community golf courses.

[8:34:26] They don't have a separate category for our type of golf course.

[8:34:29] So it's a conservative overstatement of traffic.

[8:34:32] Was do you think if you're open from sun up to sun down to play the feet? You said it peak hour

[8:34:39] Yeah, okay, so that was the measure. That was in your total number. No, no, no, that's the peak hour trip. But it was still

[8:34:46] I mean, would you say

[8:34:47] It would be unaffected whether you had the cottages or not it would be it's gonna be in it's gonna be a minimal or

[8:34:54] No impact I'm real traffic by eliminating the cottages. I I'm dealing like you said with tamarindo and it's really

[8:35:02] not just us, it's the south of Florida,

[8:35:05] water management district, and it's not just

[8:35:07] sitting with the county.

[8:35:08] But when you said, and I don't want to put words in your outfit,

[8:35:11] you said, oh, it could be like about a $500,000 expense.

[8:35:15] Is your client willing to commit to a minimum or a maximum number

[8:35:22] of what they would invest once all the science was on,

[8:35:26] or do you think that you'll have to communicate with

[8:35:29] and I'm trying to help where you can to to to to to I've already had conversations

[8:35:35] but timber and both of those aspects. The dollar amount and it's the developer. It's not

[8:35:41] the resident. It's the developer of timber and though as to that dollar amount and taking

[8:35:46] on their extra taking their capacity and they didn't blink. So what you're saying is whatever

[8:35:54] that cost would be, they're going to pay it, they're going to pay it, they're going to pay it.

[8:36:02] But we can, this project can be a solution for a lot of people's problems right now.

[8:36:10] If Tamarinda wants to come and use our property to disperse the water.

[8:36:16] And by using, yes, you have some sort of investment, though, to make all that work as well.

[8:36:21] It's not just you going, yeah, pour your water on it.

[8:36:22] Well, we have to one, we have to size our pipes and we have to make sure everything works, but they're going to pay the cost of the upside thing and taking care of all that.

[8:36:31] Well, it sounds like, you know, I mean, the colleges were a deal breaker for me and it sounds like Commissioner Hall and Commissioner McDaniel degree.

[8:36:41] So I'm happy with that.

[8:36:43] I don't know if Commissioner Saunders or Colahab anything.

[8:36:46] Mr. Saunders.

[8:36:47] I'm sorry.

[8:36:47] Thank you.

[8:36:48] I was very interested in listening to Commissioner of Castro because it's his district and we usually place a lot of weight on the district commissioner and what the district commissioner's opinion is.

[8:37:04] I've got some issues with this.

[8:37:08] You know, I've been kind of on the fence on this for a long time.

[8:37:14] There's a lot of stuff that's been said like a dignified exit.

[8:37:20] The landowner needs a fair outcome.

[8:37:23] I don't know that any of that's relevant.

[8:37:26] I've got a property under that has a piece of property that is problematic.

[8:37:30] I don't think it's incumbent upon the board to find a fair exit or fair outcome for the

[8:37:36] property owner. That doesn't mean I'm going to vote against this project. It just means that I just

[8:37:41] don't think that's a particularly good reason to consider it. I am very concerned about the panther habitat and the peace

[8:37:52] I think of some of these types of developments going forward.

[8:37:56] So I'm probably going to vote against this, because I just don't like the concept of

[8:38:02] changing the comp plan.

[8:38:04] I understand that this is a little different than a lot of things we've been dealing with.

[8:38:08] But we have a lot of people that are really disappointed.

[8:38:11] In fact, they're not going to have the same quiet enjoyment that they had when they purchased

[8:38:16] them.

[8:38:17] I'm very concerned about that.

[8:38:18] So, I'm still listening, you know, I'm really on defense here, but I'm kind of leaning towards,

[8:38:25] I think that I think that the property owner has speech property just has to deal with,

[8:38:29] as opposed to us having to solve his problem. So, still, still weighing the issues here.

[8:38:39] Mr. McGangel,

[8:38:43] what I was going to say.

[8:38:47] I just had one comment with regard to

[8:38:50] the allegations of it being our responsibility to fix the landowners problem. That's not the issue that's here.

[8:38:57] I think this is a fine compromise for a use of this piece of property enhancement of water conveyance from the north to the south.

[8:39:08] Like it or don't, there are environmental benefits that come from the utilization of this property as a golf course.

[8:39:17] Habitat, food source for the panther, so on and so forth.

[8:39:22] The huge thing for me is the public benefit associated with the water conveyance and moving the...

[8:39:28] You're doing the culverts underneath, stable palm, one way or the other.

[8:39:33] Correct. Correct. So that's happening.

[8:39:35] And that conveyance is, it's imperative, I mean, you have, you have Hustiana Lake setting

[8:39:41] up here at an elevation of the 11.2 or something, and their excess flow comes out here,

[8:39:48] and you've got the South Florida Water Management District pumps over in the PICU and State

[8:39:52] Forest that pump back to the west, all this rehydration efforts occurring up here, and then

[8:39:59] the water comes to get to the, you've heard me say it.

[8:40:02] I've called say upon the damn damn the water sits here can't get under and so those culverts are

[8:40:08] Appared for the conveyance of the water that's on the north side and the flood alleviation not just for tamarind

[8:40:14] Tamarindo has a separate issue because they're elevations like eight and half feet and

[8:40:19] Hussein does it 11 so you you've got a head differential of pushing water when they're stacking water up here

[8:40:26] It's coming up down here so and and they're only answer so far

[8:40:31] And I think they're on their second engineer is get the South Water Management to lift the

[8:40:37] restrictions on their outflow into the Henderson Canal.

[8:40:40] And they're not going to do that because that dumps an enormous amount of storm water

[8:40:45] into the Henderson Canal, which is a straight shot into Uruguay Bay and Henderson Creek.

[8:40:54] So all of those things aside, is it our job to fix the seller's issue?

[8:41:01] I mean, do we, do we have to refer this week in technical, we can say no, but I think given

[8:41:08] the public benefit, given those, given those, the additional issues that are being supported

[8:41:15] with this.

[8:41:16] I think it's a fine compromise if you want to call it that.

[8:41:24] Mr. Lukasher.

[8:41:25] Yeah, the other thing I look at is, and this is the perfect map to put up, but this puzzle

[8:41:30] piece exists that right here, and it was on Dutch land, right?

[8:41:32] It was just, it was just, you know, wildlife land,

[8:41:35] and it was, you know, being used towards a totally different story.

[8:41:39] There were, you know, what I will say to my constituents is a lot of folks

[8:41:45] did send us notes and come to the podium, talking like it's that.

[8:41:49] But it's a store, it's a, it's a, it's a orange grow of a dying orange grow.

[8:41:53] It's not in great shape, you know, so you sit here and say we can just let it sit

[8:41:59] the way it is and maybe people are happy that there's, there's nothing that's going

[8:42:02] be done there but a lot of improvement would come and I think there'd be less of structures

[8:42:12] and it would be more improvement not only for the water flow but for the land so I'm

[8:42:18] much like Commissioner Saunders I'm not everybody wants to follow my lead but we're all

[8:42:23] experienced folks in here and I'm on the fence a little bit on that as well but I look

[8:42:28] and I go, you know, is this better than if this was just on touch land, Pekno? Is it better

[8:42:35] than an orange grove that, you know, has trucks coming down the road, you know, people are buying

[8:42:40] stuff that doesn't even grow there, the trees are dying, you got a land that's totally saturated,

[8:42:45] I'm sure, with decades worth of fertilizer that's going to have to be remediated to a much

[8:42:52] more acceptable level. And this may be the chance to actually do it. So, you know, that's

[8:42:58] something that I think is on the plus side. You know, I'm trying to line up pluses and minuses.

[8:43:04] This one doesn't have an easy fast answer. It might for some citizens who just say,

[8:43:08] vote no and a lot of the notes that we got. I didn't have a lot of details behind it. It was just

[8:43:13] we don't want it. Vote no and it doesn't really work that way. We have to figure out a legal and

[8:43:17] environmental reason that we can support, but I look at it and say, if you did away with the

[8:43:21] cottages, it does away with the lighting and all the other things that are associated with

[8:43:25] the cottages, it does away with the housekeepers, it does away with, there's probably

[8:43:30] a much smaller employee staff because you don't have the cottages, so they're not being serviced

[8:43:36] and whatnot.

[8:43:37] And then I think of the other improvements that would be on there.

[8:43:40] You know, it might be the lesser of all the evils, and in the end, it improves that land right now that is not in great shape, and we would hold you to a very high standard if we were to approve this.

[8:44:00] Thank you for Mr. Fosie.

[8:44:02] We're going to need less.

[8:44:05] Oh, okay. Sorry.

[8:44:06] Yes, I'm done.

[8:44:08] Mr. Fosie.

[8:44:10] They commented on a couple things.

[8:44:13] When we look at the sending lands issue, for example, we're not talking about preserving

[8:44:21] land for next year or the next five years. We're really talking about preserving lands

[8:44:28] for the long-term future of the county. So this has been designated as sending land. It's

[8:44:33] an orange grove now that isn't working. Well, what's it going to be like if it is used as a

[8:44:41] landing land in 10 years from now, 15 years now, what is it going to look like?

[8:44:45] But most likely, it's going to look like the forested parts of Florida because it doesn't

[8:44:51] take long for the natural growth to come back and all.

[8:44:56] So we're not really talking about, okay, this is impacted land.

[8:45:01] And therefore, it's not valuable land for the future, because I think it could be. And I think that's why it's been designated as a sending plan.

[8:45:10] So, I'm going to stick with the comp plan the way it is. I know this is going to pass this afternoon, but that's my rationale for that.

[8:45:24] And then we're comments, all right, you know, I did a lot of research on this just on my own

[8:45:31] just thinking about golf courses and benefits and negative impact, you know, and I know to the

[8:45:39] east, you know, this is definitely predominant panther area, they do hunt in this area, they do

[8:45:45] migrate through this area on a regular basis. And you know, and what it is now, like I said,

[8:45:52] basically making a decision today is it came down to because we didn't have any too many other options.

[8:45:58] You know, we started this day and started this conversation. A lot of things were exhausted.

[8:46:04] I mean, the conservation quality of things was exhausted.

[8:46:07] The other independent organizations that spoke about interest on it never came to fruition.

[8:46:14] In conservation, our own staff, you know, this never would have made our A list

[8:46:18] The staff uses the actual process of determining this property.

[8:46:24] You know, you heard our own staff say it would have been a deer, a sea, wouldn't have been an A.

[8:46:32] So in that way, we wouldn't even made an offer on this property.

[8:46:35] But we wanted to go down every avenue.

[8:46:40] You know, to make sure we were not, you know, overlooking something.

[8:46:45] And like Commissioner Hall said, we're steady, we're strong in the fund and

[8:46:50] conservation quality as nothing to do it.

[8:46:53] When you guys leave here, we still have worked to do today.

[8:46:56] We've got a piece of property that's priced at $7.8 million, that's a very, very, very

[8:47:01] environmentally important piece of property.

[8:47:04] And we're going to have that discussion while you guys all go home and eat dinner.

[8:47:07] We still have to finish our agenda tonight.

[8:47:09] But, you know, everything I've read, everything I looked at, you know, these particular, like golf courses do attract certain things like deer, hog, other small mammals, a lot of birds of prey that would typically would not be there if it was just a wooded lot or an orange growth is what it is now.

[8:47:33] But it's basically a store with an ice cream store inside of it, because I've been there.

[8:47:37] I have ice cream.

[8:47:37] They will kind of get stuff.

[8:47:38] So it's almost like a commercial market in reality that's there now.

[8:47:44] And then the funny thing is when I saw the video of the Panthers, it almost reinforced

[8:47:50] the fact that, is it, of course, going to restrict these Panthers at night when nobody's

[8:47:55] on it to walk across when a mother panther is willing to take her babies into a community,

[8:48:00] Literally walking around the lanaes at the back doors at his houses.

[8:48:05] She's confident enough that she's safe to walk around in there.

[8:48:09] Let alone walk to an 18-hole golf course, which I think the gentleman was talking about.

[8:48:14] I think he's a zipper technique of bringing natural vegetation into the golf course.

[8:48:21] He's the buffers, dividing the holes, and not bringing in foreign vegetation.

[8:48:26] There's probably going to be more natural vegetation than there is right now, which I heard there's any three acres on the golf course.

[8:48:30] course as the way it is or the grove as it is now. So in reality we're going to put more natural

[8:48:37] vegetation. We're going to bring more potential wildlife to this piece of property sooner

[8:48:45] than later. And I don't think it's going to hinder any panther from walking through in the

[8:48:50] middle night, especially hunting for a number one source of food, which is white-tailed deer,

[8:48:56] which are going to be attracted to this particular vegetation in this. And it's going to make

[8:49:00] of our students, other wooded areas, they might know you'd have to go to the golf course

[8:49:04] to the hunt.

[8:49:04] It's probably going to walk right past their den on the highland areas, this around this already

[8:49:08] in the woods.

[8:49:11] So I had a couple of speakers and a lot of things they said, I think they were answered.

[8:49:17] And I do agree with Commissioner McDaniel that there is some benefit because I know since

[8:49:25] All of that, he started the projects in the south blocks and some other areas to rehydrate a lot of this natural flowway to the south and especially south to the stable palm road.

[8:49:36] This has been a dam for a long time.

[8:49:38] It's been backing up.

[8:49:40] The young lady who was up here speaking, you know, it lives back up towards the north side there.

[8:49:44] I'm sure there are property floods on a regular basis, because the water has nowhere to go.

[8:49:49] And by having the developer willing to put these culverts in to get this flow of water,

[8:49:55] we're naturally supposed to go keep flowing south to eventually make it down through the

[8:50:00] Rookery area to the south.

[8:50:04] That's a benefit.

[8:50:06] Anyway, you look at it.

[8:50:07] And nobody else is doing it.

[8:50:10] Nobody's doing it right now.

[8:50:11] And we don't know when it will happen.

[8:50:13] And even if we let it grow into a wilderness 10, 15, 20 years,

[8:50:17] now is a sending area. It doesn't mean it's called for it's going to get built. It doesn't

[8:50:22] mean that water is going to actually do what it's supposed to do. The only way that happens

[8:50:26] is to actually the golf course goes forward. So to me that is a public benefit, especially

[8:50:32] for the people to live to the north of it to get flooded on a regular basis and it will help

[8:50:37] hydrate that lands to the south, the way it's supposed to be, the natural flow. Yeah, I think

[8:50:46] And I think, and I agree, we're not in the business or making sure this gentleman makes

[8:50:52] a profit in his property, but we also are not in the business to hinder him with a product

[8:50:57] and an idea to brought to us that is probably better than what they have now out there.

[8:51:04] So, and we've already hinder it once, not a back for a second shot at it.

[8:51:09] So, I'm going to have to agree, I have to, I'm going to support this without the cottages, guarantee that we do

[8:51:16] are getting the culverts in place and then whatever other deal you work with the other community, I think

[8:51:24] that's going to benefit a lot of people at the end of the day if that all comes to fruition and I can't

[8:51:30] see, we can all say over and over again, it's going to be bad for pants, it's good for pants,

[8:51:37] it's

[8:51:37] evidence, I see you to Panthers and on

[8:51:39] either by even by your how many houses are on a walk.

[8:51:43] I mean, look at that picture.

[8:51:46] How many houses is it?

[8:51:47] When you have Panthers walking around the houses,

[8:51:51] I mean, you brought the evidence, I didn't.

[8:51:53] But it is what it is, man.

[8:51:55] It's not an over with.

[8:51:56] It's not an over with.

[8:52:00] It's not an over with.

[8:52:03] That was a security camera on a back of a lmao,

[8:52:06] I saw the fence and I'm not arguing about where it was.

[8:52:12] I saw my own eyes.

[8:52:13] I know it was.

[8:52:14] It actually reinforces the fact that the panthers are not hindered even by a large community

[8:52:19] like that that safe enough to bring her cubs through, walking through a golf course and

[8:52:26] in the middle of the night between two giant preserves is a lot.

[8:52:30] It's not safer than walking in a community. That's all I'm saying. Let's just be realistic. I'm using common sense. I'm sorry. But that's the fact. So I'm going to support this moving forward. I don't think we have a motion. I got two more commissioners. I want to say something. I thought we were done. Good. Good.

[8:52:48] But you keep bringing things up. It was mentioned earlier the County Attorney, this is important that you pay attention now this time.

[8:52:59] I caught you messing around before and I got the attention.

[8:53:02] There was, there was made mention.

[8:53:05] I had a note and I didn't bring it up.

[8:53:07] And S.B.

[8:53:09] S.S.

[8:53:10] S.S.

[8:53:11] S.S.

[8:53:11] S.S.S.S.

[8:53:12] than about a trigger for the gang brought that up.

[8:53:16] Jay, Jay, to broaden it up.

[8:53:19] About a trigger for a continuous property owner,

[8:53:22] if this were approved as a development,

[8:53:26] that it would allow them to become an end.

[8:53:30] I don't know about that Senate Bill.

[8:53:32] I think he's just not willing to look.

[8:53:34] No, he's talking about a project that I believe

[8:53:42] qualifications under under that development. I'll be I will be off the

[8:53:46] resolution. Here comes Bozi to tell us Mr. Rosie.

[8:53:51] And I don't interpret

[8:53:53] statute that's the County Attorney's Office, but the Senate Bill 686

[8:53:59] provided for agricultural office means if you're in the agricultural zoning

[8:54:04] district in your project or your property, a but a residential development, you're

[8:54:12] entitled to that density of that residential development based upon the existence of.

[8:54:18] The only PUD that a buttsis property is Hoshy and the Lakes.

[8:54:25] That density is 0.78 units per acre, very low density.

[8:54:30] So the 169 acres would translate to about 131 residential units.

[8:54:36] So, this possibly could be eligible for the agricultural on-clay, based on Senate Bill

[8:54:45] 686, which would give them, and I'm not sure if 131 would be attracted to them in

[8:54:51] that regard.

[8:54:53] But that's still a layman's interpretation, not a lawyer's interpretation of the

[8:54:59] Florida statute.

[8:55:00] That same land is owned by the same developers, and they've already stripped the credits

[8:55:05] off of that to facilitate the development in Haseyenda and the wrong one.

[8:55:12] That land is part of the Haseyenda PUD.

[8:55:15] They've already stripped the credits off of it.

[8:55:17] But the Haseyenda PUD has a density of 0.78 units per acre.

[8:55:23] The entire PUD has residential portions, commercial portions, and then preserved portions.

[8:55:30] The preserved portions happen to be adjacent to it, but that's still the Haseyenda

[8:55:34] PUD, which has a development standpoint,

[8:55:37] has a density of 0.78 units per acre.

[8:55:42] So would this improve a little trigger to their right?

[8:55:46] To, no, no, if you, if you have pigs of course,

[8:55:49] it's approved for a golf ball.

[8:55:50] Yeah, it takes it away, it doesn't.

[8:55:51] Right, it's right now as agricultural.

[8:55:55] It would be, it would be eligible because it's

[8:55:57] a joining, it's adjacent to the Hossi and the PUD

[8:56:01] with the 0.78 units per acre.

[8:56:03] So then disapproves not going to trigger their right to know he doesn't trigger that was my I think what he saying is if if you don't approve this

[8:56:15] Maybe I have a hundred thirty one-homes on this piece of property. Oh, I think that's what he just said

[8:56:24] Yeah, I think that's what he just

[8:56:28] said

[8:56:30] Yeah, I think we've heard through

[8:56:35] I think that we explored every possible option.

[8:56:40] It's the landowners right to say yes or no to conservation

[8:56:43] collar.

[8:56:44] It's not like that's some big magic solution.

[8:56:47] It's one of many, but also this landowner has the right to bring us something.

[8:56:53] And you actually took our homework assignment from our last meeting.

[8:56:57] And what I heard from a lot of citizens in here was,

[8:57:00] hate to traffic, hate to construction, hate to density, hurt to your

[8:57:05] I think what we've done here is significantly minimize the structures,

[8:57:10] significantly minimize the lights and the after-hours activities,

[8:57:14] downsize the project significantly.

[8:57:16] I guess my last question for Mr. Rosie is going forward here.

[8:57:20] How much involvement do we have?

[8:57:22] Like we have no design, we don't know what the cloud house is going to look like.

[8:57:25] We don't know what the landscape is going to look like, you know,

[8:57:27] and all of us that are at least leaning towards a proving this want to see the most robust,

[8:57:33] natural wildlife using all the right things in place, you know, not just give them up, give them a thumbs up and say, hey, make a look pretty.

[8:57:42] What is our involvement that has the county to make sure that it hits all those targets and all of those things to make it the most robust

[8:57:51] environmentally friendly golf course that we want it to be?

[8:57:55] Well, I mean, they do have to meet the gold standard, which they're green to within their PUD,

[8:58:02] as well as the best-manager practices for their maintenance facility that's related to the DPMPs.

[8:58:10] They have to go through, they'll have to go through a site development plan for the individual golf course.

[8:58:15] And one thing I won't point out that other than on stable palm road, there are no buffers,

[8:58:21] because it's next to preserve and the picking and strength say,

[8:58:25] for you want no buffers along this golf course. You want the wildlife to be able to

[8:58:30] versus discourse, of course, with relatively ease.

[8:58:33] So this is an area where a buffer doesn't serve any benefit

[8:58:38] if it's to preserve area in state forest.

[8:58:43] You don't want buffers on there.

[8:58:45] And the plug says it does not have buffer there.

[8:58:48] So it's providing for that environmental aspect

[8:58:51] of recognizing that this is a panther habitat

[8:58:55] and will allow for the panthers to transverse it relatively easily.

[8:58:58] I know some nice people hate when I say this, but because of all the things that we've made the

[8:59:05] applicant agree to here to significantly downsize the project, I do hate it a lot less,

[8:59:11] but I also think what's going to get lost in the whole story here is how I do believe this

[8:59:18] will prevent something much more robust from being able to go there.

[8:59:23] And so I think we've slammed the door on that and you can't just say, hey, I don't want

[8:59:28] or I want everything to be a dog park.

[8:59:30] And so I think that's the part that I think is the,

[8:59:35] if there's a little bit of a silver lining,

[8:59:38] something much more robust can go on this very easily,

[8:59:41] unless we agree to something like this

[8:59:43] and by downsizing it with the structures and the lighting

[8:59:47] and all the things that we've agreed to here

[8:59:50] if we approved it, I think we've squeezed it as much as we can

[8:59:53] and then like you said, the process is going to guide

[8:59:56] very aggressive.

[9:00:01] A natural habitat type of end result. And in that area, that's exactly what we need. And we'll be working with the county staff to make sure that happens.

[9:00:12] So, and like you said, that they meet all the parameters of the gold standard.

[9:00:16] So if you're still on that,

[9:00:17] two more or two more,

[9:00:18] two more and let up.

[9:00:20] Coming in.

[9:00:21] I've been to make a motion for approval with those

[9:00:25] stipulations that we've already

[9:00:27] brought forward.

[9:00:30] I just want to include a

[9:00:31] deeterestriction on that.

[9:00:33] We don't need to deeterestriction.

[9:00:35] If he's not going to have the residential

[9:00:36] do it.

[9:00:37] We're going to do a deeterestriction

[9:00:39] and not the right data.

[9:00:39] We double down on the deeterestriction

[9:00:41] and the 10 house.

[9:00:42] I'll find with that.

[9:00:43] To take the cottages out

[9:00:45] add the deed restriction as says no residential.

[9:00:49] Yes.

[9:00:50] Notice to the notice to the honors, I mean, the members, the prescriptive burns.

[9:00:54] Hey, you went into.

[9:00:55] We need everything.

[9:00:56] I think it eliminates some possible loopholes after we're all gone.

[9:01:01] That the deed restriction on the other added protection.

[9:01:05] I'll second that.

[9:01:07] Yeah.

[9:01:08] Commissioner Sons.

[9:01:09] Yeah.

[9:01:09] Just a quick comment.

[9:01:11] Mr. Bozy.

[9:01:11] This statement about the on-clave.

[9:01:16] If I had heard that information early on,

[9:01:20] that certainly would have affected my voting.

[9:01:22] So I think it's important if we got a statute like that

[9:01:26] that says if we don't do anything,

[9:01:30] there can be 171 units built there.

[9:01:32] I think that's important that we know that in advance.

[9:01:35] I want to go ahead and vote against this just because I said it was going to.

[9:01:38] I know some past, but I just, in the future, you know, I think if that is a case, then we need to know, and I'm not 100% sure that's necessarily correct, but keep us fully informed.

[9:01:52] I understand it. I should have addressed it with the County Attorney's Office earlier to see if if they had the, if their perception or they're understanding the statute was identical to my understanding the statute to let you know that 130 units could have been developed on this 169 acres.

[9:02:08] And Mr. Classico's interpretation correct?

[9:02:11] Yes.

[9:02:12] All right.

[9:02:12] Oh, that should withdraw.

[9:02:14] No, you can't.

[9:02:16] But that was still on coming though, right?

[9:02:22] Or has it been put in a little bit?

[9:02:23] No, no, no, no.

[9:02:24] It's a place.

[9:02:26] Oh, this Laura statue.

[9:02:27] All right.

[9:02:28] I got a motion on the side.

[9:02:29] On the motion.

[9:02:31] I don't want to look like I'm stupid.

[9:02:33] I'm going to go ahead and vote for this motion only because of what you've just said

[9:02:37] because this is a better situation than if we, if we deny this,

[9:02:41] I realize it's gonna pass with it without me,

[9:02:44] but if I had known that at the beginning,

[9:02:46] then I wouldn't be sitting here trying to figure out

[9:02:47] what to do on this.

[9:02:48] But also, on top of that, live local,

[9:02:51] if we let the cottage, that also leaves it vulnerable

[9:02:53] to even further expansion even more.

[9:02:55] So I mean, we're shutting the door

[9:02:57] and quite a few things that are big possibilities

[9:03:01] if not certainties.

[9:03:03] So I mean, I know that won't say well with a lot of citizens,

[9:03:05] But sometimes, you know, we see it up here in a different way because we're sort of swimming in the stream a lot more regularly

[9:03:13] So I'm good with that, so

[9:03:15] All right, so with all the

[9:03:18] subtractions and add to the

[9:03:20] Demotion, it was made of a commission of a Daniel and I got a second-by-commissioner Hall

[9:03:25] All-favorite singer five by saying aye. Hi, I oppose the same sound same side

[9:03:34] Thank you.

[9:03:35] Thank you guys.

[9:03:39] We're going to talk about a break.

[9:03:44] Terry definitely needs a quarter quarter break.

[9:03:47] Yeah.

[9:03:47] Ten minutes.

[9:03:48] About five minutes.

[9:03:50] About ten minutes.

[9:03:51] You're called.

[9:03:52] Ten minutes.

[9:03:54] No, a little longer.

[9:03:54] I need that food already here.

[9:03:56] I need that.

[9:03:58] I need that.

[9:03:58] We'll start at the end.

[9:04:01] We still got.

[9:04:10] Thank you.

[9:04:11] 2020, gentlemen.

[9:25:08] Members 11B and 11C together, I will read those two into the record. Jamie Cook has got them together in her presentation.

[9:25:16] So item 11B is a recommendation to approve an agreement for sale and purchase under the conservation call your land acquisition program with Bernabe Acosta for a 1.14 acre parcel at Acosta of 34,200, James A and Alice M. Riley for a 1.14 acre parcel at Acosta of 32,490, and Katherine M. Nichols.

[9:25:38] for five parcels totaling 9.1 acres at a cost of $290,000 for a total cost not to exceed

[9:25:45] $282,970 inclusive of closing costs.

[9:25:51] And item 11C is a recommendation to approve and agreement for sale and purchase under

[9:25:55] the conservation call your land acquisition program with one HK investment AG Inc for a

[9:26:02] $1.37 acre parcel at a cost of $560,000 to Dwight and Nielrick Klet for a .57 acre parcel

[9:26:11] at a cost of $720,000 and $3 Kim and Kim M Coffner trust for a .34 acre parcel at a cost

[9:26:19] of $475,000 for a total cost not to exceed $1,768,660 inclusive of closing costs Ms.

[9:26:27] your division director for Development Review is here to present. Good evening commissioners,

[9:26:34] Jamie Cook, for the record. As the county manager mentioned, there are six purchase agreements

[9:26:39] before you today. Two of them are in red maple swamp. One of them consisting of five parcels

[9:26:45] is out in the immaculate area and three purchase agreements on Marco Island.

[9:26:51] The red maple swamp

[9:26:53] was established in 2005 and to date 81 percent of the preserve has been acquired by conservation

[9:27:00] collier. The red maple swamp is north of 20 ghosts and contributes to a large wildlife

[9:27:07] private and wildlife corridor of public and private conservation easements including

[9:27:12] the corkscrew swamp sanctuary, the bird recovery swamp, and private conservation lands

[9:27:18] including Benita Bay, Esplanade, Riverstone,

[9:27:23] the Corey, and Heritage Bay.

[9:27:27] There has been a large restoration project

[9:27:29] undergoing for the past little over a year

[9:27:32] that is continuing in this summer

[9:27:35] as a result of that restoration project,

[9:27:38] a significant number of white till deer

[9:27:41] and juvenile panthers were observed on the preserve itself.

[9:27:45] So, the Acosta parcel is 1.14 acres of mixed wetland hardwoods, and it is 100% hydroxolios.

[9:27:54] This parcel is on the north side of the preserve, and a butts conservation collier

[9:27:59] parcels on three sides, as well as the bird recovery swamp to its north.

[9:28:07] One of the things I was asked to provide to you all was when the owners had purchased

[9:28:12] these parcels and if they were currently being listed for sale so this parcel was bought

[9:28:18] by the current owner in May of 2022 and the purchase price mentioned is 100% of the

[9:28:25] appraisal value.

[9:28:29] The Riley parcel is a little bit further west and south of the cost of parcel

[9:28:35] but it is a butts conservation call your parcels to its north and south as well.

[9:28:43] Again, this parcel supports Florida Panthers and their juveniles, Black Bear and waiting birds.

[9:28:51] This purchase price is 95% of the appraised value of the property and this owner has owned the parcel since 1977 when the Golden Gate of States was first being subdivided.

[9:29:04] The nickels parcels are out in a mockery. They are five parcels containing wetland vegetation, but non-hydric soils.

[9:29:14] This site supports waiting birds, black bears, bobcats, and there is Florida panther of telemetry data in this surrounding area.

[9:29:22] These parcels are about 400 feet west of the Williams Farm Preserve.

[9:29:28] And it does provide an eastern connection around the lake around Lake Trafford to get to Pepper Ranch and so the other private conservation lands and crew habitat.

[9:29:42] These parcels were acquired in 1987 by the owner. They've gone through various trusts since then, but it's essentially been the same owner since 1987.

[9:29:52] They were listed for sale in September of last year, they reduced the price to $75,000 per

[9:29:59] lot.

[9:30:00] In October of last year and $50,000 per lot in August of this year, the purchase price of 209,000 for the five parcels is 95% of the appraised value of the property.

[9:30:15] Any questions so far?

[9:30:21] Yeah, thank you. No, there's no sorry. I just was curious. Why we're voting on or talking about

[9:30:34] B and C together. I just made the presentation together. Oh, okay. We're both part of the red maple swall.

[9:30:42] Well, I

[9:30:42] Can we vote on them individually?

[9:30:44] Absolutely. I'll make a motion for approval on the purchases of on on 11B as present.

[9:30:54] I'll second it. Motion a second for 11B all favors signify by saying aye.

[9:31:01] Aye. Opposed same sound same sign. Passes.

[9:31:08] Then to go to 11D, which is the three Marko Island parcels. The first parcel before you is the

[9:31:15] K investment parcel. This parcel is on Barfield Drive just south of San Marco Road. It is

[9:31:23] immediately south across Hawaii court from an existing conservation collier preserve known as

[9:31:31] Barfield Burrows. The Barfield Burrows preserve does contain a bald eagle nest, as well as

[9:31:36] about 130 active go for tortoise burrows.

[9:31:41] This HK parcel is 0.37 acres of coastal scrub habitat.

[9:31:46] Coastal scrub habitat is typically defined by upland soils.

[9:31:50] They do, they are sandy and drain well.

[9:31:54] It's more of a sand ridge and contains cell palmetos,

[9:32:00] livox, Florida Rose Mary, and prickly pair cactus.

[9:32:04] This property itself contains at least 13 go for tortoises of varying ages, which indicates

[9:32:12] that there's a breeding population on this parcel, and it also contains habitat for burrowing

[9:32:18] owls.

[9:32:21] The current zoning of this parcel is C1 slash transitional, and Mark O'Ilan considers

[9:32:27] that to be lower intensity commercial development as it transitions into the residential

[9:32:34] neighborhood to the east of this parcel.

[9:32:41] The property owner bought this property in May of 2015

[9:32:45] and I was not able to find any record that it's actually ever been listed for sales since

[9:32:49] then. This owner did apply to the program back in 2024. So it did have two appraisals and the

[9:32:59] at that time was 6,6500, which was the author made. It was re-appraised due to the clerk

[9:33:07] office of Inspector General audit in 2025 and the purchase price of $560,000 is the lower

[9:33:16] of the two appraisals, and it is a hundred percent of that lower appraised value.

[9:33:26] The next

[9:33:26] Parcel is the clet parcel, which is 0.57 acres of coastal scrub and maritime hammock.

[9:33:34] Maritime hammock habitat is influenced by sandy soils and salt spray from the sea.

[9:33:42] It contains livox, cabbage palms, gumbo limbo, strangler figs.

[9:33:47] As well as some of those scrub habitat scrub vegetation I mentioned earlier.

[9:33:52] There are eight currently eight goher tortoises on site and this personal does border two streets as well as two single family homes, so it is slightly more isolated than the previous parcel I just showed you.

[9:34:08] This property owner bought the property in January of 2020 and it's been listed for sale twice the first half of 2025 as well as earlier this year and it is currently for sale for

[9:34:21] of $729,000, the purchase price of 720 is 100% of the appraisal value of the lower appraisals.

[9:34:40] The last parcel is the Q&A trust parcel. This is 0.34 acres of, again, coastal scrub and maritime hammock habitat.

[9:34:50] There are seven go for tortoises on this property,

[9:34:55] and it is known for single family

[9:34:57] residential as was the club parcel that I failed to mention on that one.

[9:35:02] Again, this one is more isolated.

[9:35:04] It does have development surrounding it on three sides, as well as two sides, I'm sorry,

[9:35:12] as well as it abuts two streets.

[9:35:17] The purchase price is $475,000, which is 99% of the lowest appraised value.

[9:35:24] Again, the owner did buy this one for $549,000 in May of 2023.

[9:35:30] It has also been for sale twice, but it is not currently listed.

[9:35:38] The total cost to the program, including closing costs with the acquisition of all six

[9:35:45] purchase agreements is $2,000, $1,000, $1,000, $1,000, $1,000 for all fixed purchase agreements.

[9:35:53] And with that, I'll take any questions or comments.

[9:35:59] I can make sure as we did have a question.

[9:36:00] We do have public comment on these items.

[9:36:04] So how long do you want to go first?

[9:36:06] How many speakers?

[9:36:07] We will 11.

[9:36:09] Okay, sir.

[9:36:10] You know what?

[9:36:10] Before we hear from the 11.

[9:36:12] I'll make a few opening comments.

[9:36:14] and maybe that'll help put some things in perspective.

[9:36:18] Another purchase price of smaller lots on conservation

[9:36:21] jump out at folks, but conservation collier to me

[9:36:25] isn't a real estate program, it's a land preservation

[9:36:28] program when parcels meet or exceed requirements.

[9:36:33] Conservation program exists to me, in my opinion,

[9:36:36] for a lot such as this, that are already home

[9:36:39] to endangered species.

[9:36:41] I mean, think of all the lots that we buy here that are puzzle pieces and yeah, they're cut throughs and maybe an eagle flew over at three years ago, and a panther may, you know, skirt the edges.

[9:36:53] These are, I can tell you I know every single one of these lots, and your numbers might even be low, and so I'm sure.

[9:37:00] I know Mr. Blonna is here who's a real environmental expert on Marco, so I would say, you know, it's not a matter of just sort of finding the good real estate deals.

[9:37:09] If that was the case, then everything that we would buy would be out in a mockery or out in the middle of nowhere,

[9:37:15] and it would be those puzzle pieces, which are also still very valuable.

[9:37:18] But these lots are already home to, you know, exotic and sensitive wildlife as well as the vegetation.

County Commission - Sept. 22, 2026

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