[0:17] Okay, great. We'll do a roll call and for East Bay, and then Lisa, do you want to do a roll call

[0:22] I've been for Acme.

[0:25] Yes.

[0:30] Here.

[0:32] And told us he would not be able to make it.

[0:37] Let's see.

[0:38] It's probably won't be an alphabetical order.

[0:41] Genima.

[0:42] Hoxy.

[0:43] Yeah.

[0:43] Here.

[0:44] Here.

[0:47] Swanson.

[0:49] Wiley.

[0:52] Wiley.

[0:58] Probably.

[0:58] He's probably an Acme.

[1:09] Okay, you're good?

[1:15] Okay.

[1:16] All right.

[1:16] We will review the agenda for conflict of interest.

[1:20] We are here tonight talking about the forced main sewer project that we are all working on.

[1:26] So does anybody have a conflict of interest on either board?

[1:32] Okay, moving forward, then we'll approve the agenda and we'll do a motion and support for East Bay and then we'll do the same for, for Akmy, okay, good duck, okay, is there a motion?

[1:49] Okay, there is a, it is moved by Sue Quartade and supported by many,

[1:53] who will pick Walters to approve the agenda.

[1:58] All those in favor indicate by saying aye, aye, aye, aye, any opposed by now?

[2:02] Okay.

[2:07] I make a motion.

[2:07] We approve the agenda's written.

[2:11] I've been moved by high school and high students.

[2:13] All those in favor say aye.

[2:15] Aye.

[2:16] Opposed?

[2:18] Okay.

[2:18] All right.

[2:19] Now is our opportunity for public comment, I think that this is such a riveting topic that we have

[2:25] garnered a ton of public. So there is an opportunity for public comment. You're welcome to step up and tell us your

[2:33] perspective, but I don't see any. Are you good with that Doug? Okay, then we'll move forward with the subject in front of us.

[2:42] We are first going to do an engineering update and then we will talk about the financing agreement.

[2:47] We should also have met Kern through Leah is operating our Zoom call and we should have our financial management available in Zoom for questions if needed.

[3:01] In your packet, before we get started with the engineers, just kind of cover what we have here for you.

[3:06] As you'll know, the packet was updated and you are provided the most recent copy and how that changed, which was just by the little bit of a change in the amount of the cost of issuance.

[3:17] So, but you have a cover sheet that kind of explains where we're at today, tells what

[3:23] documents are in the packet, and some links we have a Wade trim update that they will

[3:29] cover.

[3:30] Then we have the agreement for consideration between Acme and East Bay Charter Townships, and

[3:37] that lines out the financial agreement and the partnership on this project, and then a resolution

[3:44] for each township to adopt those and then the very last page you show the cost and the

[3:54] allocation of the grants and and our cash contributions. Also you'll find on

[4:01] your desk the 2013 sewer system usage agreement between the two townships which

[4:07] determines how we allocate those costs. So with that, I'll turn it over to Wade

[4:12] trim and Gosling Zubek, which is Acme Townships Engineering team is also here today, Mark.

[4:22] Why am I blanking on your last name?

[4:25] I heardly.

[4:26] That's right.

[4:26] I know it when I put it in email, but so he's here as well, so take it away, Garth.

[4:32] Thanks, Beth.

[4:32] I am Garth with Wade trim.

[4:35] Here to provide you all with an update on what we've done since the last joint meeting.

[4:41] After the last meeting, we raced back to the office and the big push was to get an eagle

[4:48] permit application submitted because they've been notoriously lengthy in review time lately.

[4:57] Thankfully, as of just a couple weeks ago, that has been issued after a number of back and forth

[5:04] reviews with them. They're happy with where we have the plans at and so are we.

[5:12] In addition to that, we've also had a lot of stakeholder involvement in meetings.

[5:19] We've met a lot with Mark and collected input from him. He's got several details on those plans

[5:26] that I'll be reminiscing from his early engineering career because he shared him with us.

[5:34] as well as Garfield Township's engineer, the DPW, the Grand Traverse County Road Commission,

[5:44] Tart, the City of Traverse City, and I'm sure I'm missing a few others in there.

[5:52] Oh, I'm not real too.

[5:53] They're pretty heavily involved in this because we're laying pipe along much of their

[5:58] right away.

[6:01] Having taken all of their input, we amended and massaged the plans as we could, and that

[6:10] lands us to where we're at with the current plans today, which are ready for bidding.

[6:17] They have not yet been released, but they're on our desk ready for a final stamp and seal.

[6:23] And those, along with the specs, we'll go out for Bids next Monday, that'll be a four week

[6:32] bid period with the bid opening date being on September 4th.

[6:39] There'll be a non-mandatory pre-bid meeting about midway through that.

[6:46] We like to have those meetings because it often brings a lot of questions to light that some people may not necessarily want to put in writing.

[6:54] And it also gives us an idea of who's looking at the project.

[7:00] As of today, the project's been advertised in the record eagle.

[7:06] That will get advertised for the following three Sundays to

[7:10] Gardner for their attention to this.

[7:14] We are sticking with the original two contract approach that we

[7:23] Not only for getting a good pool of contractors that are actually able to bond the size of the product.

[7:30] Objects locally, but it also benefits both townships and that we can put all of the federal dollars

[7:37] in one contract and then do all of the bond funded work in a separate contract so that Davis

[7:45] bacon wage rates won't apply to one of the two contracts and hopefully save some money that

[7:52] way. Contract 1 is the contract that will have the federal dollars and wage rates associated

[7:58] it with it. That is from the Traverse City wastewater treatment plant to Garfield Road.

[8:07] In terms of length, it's quite a bit shorter than contract two, which is Garfield to

[8:14] the left station on the east end of Parsons Road. However, given the complexity,

[8:20] we felt that the shorter length still would meet the $4 million plus or minus funding goal

[8:28] for that contract. We also have provisions in the specs to adjust

[8:35] quantities as needed. So if we get Vids back and contract one is higher

[8:43] than that $4 million target that we had, we've still got the opportunity to

[8:49] pull quantity from one contract, put it in the other contract, without

[8:54] they're being any penalty to the unit prices submitted by the contractor, so we do have that

[9:00] in our back pocket. In addition to that, we thought it was worth despite believing that

[9:08] this is a prime project for directional drilling. We wanted to keep things as competitive as

[9:15] possible in order to get the best pricing possible, so we have bid alternates for both on both

[9:24] if a local contractor were to really want to pursue this project and sharpen their pencils and see if they can compete with the directional drill numbers.

[9:36] We also feel that's going to keep the directional drill numbers a little bit more honest because it's not just a slam dunk for them either.

[9:44] Let's see, I'll refer back to the memo to make sure I'm not missing anything.

[9:49] The EPA has reviewed the federal contract one and they were happy with it in terms of meeting the federal requirements.

[9:59] So, we are good to move forward with that.

[10:02] The project plan associated with the federal funding is currently in the works.

[10:08] That does not need to be done before the start of construction, but it is our goal to get it submitted prior to.

[10:17] Let's see here,

[10:24] once Bids are received and a contract is awarded, at that point we'll move on to further permitting.

[10:31] That'll involve County MDOT rail and city right away permits to work within the right away.

[10:40] Brian, do you know of anything I might be missing?

[10:44] All right, any questions?

[10:45] I appreciate the work that Wade Charms done and the collaboration with Gosling Zubek.

[10:54] I think it's been really well done and also as they mentioned they worked with Garfield

[11:01] Township too and determined because there was a patch at the end where Garfield there was

[11:08] a thousand feet and we weren't sure if they were doing their mark and Brian when we were

[11:14] DMT conference, hashed out what their three options were, and put that to Garfield Township

[11:21] and writing. They had a good joint meeting, and Garfield Township understood and got back

[11:27] to us in writing with what their preference was, which was at this point right now not to

[11:31] be involved, which is absolutely fine. So we do have that taken care of from the last meeting,

[11:38] and then I remember Matt Cook had asked some specific questions about an alternate route and I

[11:43] You know, Brian shortly after that, meaning it's so long ago, I don't quite recall exactly what it was,

[11:49] but I know that they had addressed Matt's questions with that too.

[11:54] So, really appreciate the work you guys have done.

[11:57] Yeah, I'm just to elaborate on the Garfield Township Connection.

[12:00] They will remain connected to the existing force main that comes in on the north side of the railroad tracks.

[12:09] Crosses over at woodmear and then goes into the plant. They will remain connected at that location for the time being

[12:17] Under the agreement that they will be installing an insertion valve on the East Bay Act beside of that connection

[12:23] So that if they being that they are continuing to use that line

[12:29] It will prevent back flow into the East Bay Act me portion of the line

[12:36] That's better for everybody

[12:37] And then, in terms of the new pipeline going in, there will be a why connection that is

[12:45] capped facing the direction that they would potentially connect in the future.

[12:51] Okay.

[13:00] Yes.

[13:01] Yep.

[13:02] Do they not need to review contract, too?

[13:04] No.

[13:04] Being that there's no federal funding associated with contract, too.

[13:08] we are the townships are free to word those contracts as they wish and fund them as they wish.

[13:17] And yep, that's solely for the million dollars that we have from the feds through Congress

[13:24] Member Markman's office. Yep. Great. Any other questions comments?

[13:35] And did you ring my shirt, go ahead.

[13:37] So I know that, and this is because it's East-based project,

[13:41] and we're here to help fund our portion of it,

[13:44] but Mark works on our behalf.

[13:46] So I want to hear from him that you've reviewed everything,

[13:49] you agree that everything complies with the specs

[13:52] and everything that is needed for the growth that you're seeing

[13:55] for AFME, and along with East-Bay obviously,

[13:58] but you looked at all that.

[13:59] Come on up so that they can get you on camera, but Amy, I will mention one thing, as they're going through this, I know that Wade trim was in touch with all the townships, even including Garfield and Blair on their numbers for flow and included with that is some growth parameters that they apply to it too, but sure, go ahead and.

[14:23] I think it's more of your best to us.

[14:25] Yeah, we met with Brian and Garth and Joe multiple times.

[14:33] I actually talked to Joe about an hour ago about some

[14:38] additional comments I had on the plans today.

[14:42] So yeah, we've reviewed him.

[14:46] We've done modeling.

[14:48] We verified all of Damian's models.

[14:52] So, yeah, we've gone through it through a pretty thoroughly.

[14:58] Can you put your seal on it too?

[15:02] I'm not allowed to actually, but I did tell Joe, I did tell Joe all bidding questions that

[15:14] did may come to me. I will have a message that refers to Joe's number.

[15:19] Yes,

[15:23] I'm honestly having, having sat through many of their joint meetings with both engineering

[15:31] firms. They've done a really good job analyzing and challenging each other and coming up with the best thing for both

[15:41] townships on this line. So I think it's been a really good collaboration.

[15:46] OK, if there's no more questions or comments, then we'll move forward to the agreement that we have

[15:53] in front of us, and we do have Mark Nettleton here with Mike Amir's, who is working on the

[15:58] townships behalf, and has a resolution in front of us. You will know, if I could, just a little

[16:05] bit, I just want to mention, I did change up date the numbers as everybody's seen. There was

[16:10] a small adjustment based on a cost of issuance, wasn't a big thing, but I did want to make

[16:15] sure that it followed through all of the numbers through the document. So the basis of the

[16:23] calculation based on that.

[16:25] So, thanks, Mark.

[16:27] How are you?

[16:27] Doing well.

[16:28] Thanks.

[16:29] Good to be here.

[16:30] I like the weather today better than in November when I was out here.

[16:34] So, good to be back.

[16:36] So, the good news is, and I think we talked about this in November, is that you guys,

[16:42] your predecessors on the board, in that 2013 agreement, provided the road map,

[16:48] provided the guide posts for proceeding on a project like this.

[16:52] So this agreement that's presented to you tonight for your consideration, hopeful adoption is dictated

[17:00] and accordance with your 2013 agreement. So we're just kind of implementing that and putting into words

[17:06] that which was contemplated under that 2013 agreement. So the big ask today is to after we discuss.

[17:15] And you ask your questions and get your answers. Have both township boards consider your respective resolutions

[17:21] to approve the agreement, and then that puts into place the step necessary to allow East

[17:27] Bay at that point in time to finance that project, that contract to project through the

[17:33] issuance of East Bay's capital improvement bonds. So the agreement that before you tonight

[17:39] provides for East Bay to do that, and then provides for the townships to share in that cost

[17:45] of that financing, and again, that's all set forth in your 2013 agreement, and this is just

[17:52] implementing that.

[17:53] So, kind of a brief overview of the actual agreement, goes through the estimated, pre-bid

[18:01] estimated cost of the project, the 11 million foreign change, talks about the dollars that

[18:07] have been allocated, grant funds, the township's respective $1 million cash contributions,

[18:13] And that gets us down to the amount to be financed by East Bay of about $6.4 million in change.

[18:22] And then those bonds are proposed to be outstanding for a period of 10 years.

[18:27] And so then the meat and heart of the agreement is on page 3,

[18:31] paragraph 3 about the cost share for the project,

[18:34] and that percentage breakdown, basically, for the debt service of East Bay's bond,

[18:40] is, as I've mentioned, determined according to your 2013 agreement and your most recent

[18:46] January 1, 2025 contribution percentages.

[18:53] The agreement has a couple of back-up contingencies, what ifs?

[18:57] One of the project costs comes in higher, and the answer there is that East Bay would

[19:03] be authorized to issue additional bonds to pay for those project costs.

[19:08] But before East Bay can do that,

[19:12] we've got to have acne sign off on that increase cost of the project.

[19:16] If there's any money left over at the end of completion of that project,

[19:21] that money is going to go back to the respective townships

[19:24] in proportion to the amount of your contribution percentage,

[19:28] and it's stated in this agreement.

[19:31] If you get additional cash or federal funding or grant funding,

[19:36] money falls out of the sky.

[19:38] That can be allocated to the project.

[19:40] That can reduce the amount of bonds that

[19:43] he's pay has to issue.

[19:45] We'd have to know that before the bonds are issued.

[19:49] Once the bonds are issued, we're kind of locked in.

[19:51] At a ten-year repayment period, it's highly unlikely

[19:54] that we'd have the ability to call the bonds prior to maturity.

[19:59] And Andy Campbell,

[20:05] with Vincent's

[20:06] in terms of, you know, the likelihood that the bond market would allow that to, would purchase

[20:12] the bonds for a 10-year maturity with a call provision like that.

[20:16] Excuse me, I want to get the HOA meeting, is that what you're here for?

[20:19] Oh, no, you're here with that, me, township. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Erin, I'm sorry. I was thinking

[20:26] you were an HOA member for the other, the other conference room.

[20:32] Nice to have. Nice to have you. Sorry, Mark. Go ahead.

[20:35] the words,

[20:39] pursuant to the 2000 agreement, and because East Bay will be issuing the bonds,

[20:44] while the bonds are outstanding, the project technically will be owned by East Bay, but

[20:50] all the costs for operation maintenance repair replacement, again dictated by your 2013 agreement,

[20:56] you'll follow that agreement for those costs and cost allocation.

[21:02] I provided in this agreement on page 7, we're not modifying the 2013 agreement.

[21:08] This is not an amendment to the 2013 agreement.

[21:12] This supplements that, and again, is in furtherance of section 5 of the 2013 agreement

[21:17] for when there needs to be capital improvements to the system.

[21:23] That's my brief overview of that agreement.

[21:25] Happy to answer any questions.

[21:26] Yeah, and appreciate Mark and the past couple of months, we really challenged him with, okay, exactly, what is that breakout, what numbers do we use, what are the data sets available to make sure we were pulling the right information?

[21:41] Noah and his team at the DPW have been very helpful with that, so I also want to mention

[21:48] we do have some exhibits here attached and one would be the project description.

[21:54] The other is the estimated costs and again those were updated to tie into that change

[22:01] that I mentioned to you and then the exhibit C is the two pages from or three pages from

[22:08] and Zensky that has the cost of issuance and then the schedule for the debt and no one

[22:17] thing is we're going through this and we're not sure exactly on the timing if they'll do the

[22:22] contracts at the same time if they'll do one contract after the other will depend on when we issue the

[22:29] bond.

[22:30] But when they want to do, is get everything done so that we have the ability to issue the bonds when needed.

[22:38] So there's, as you mentioned, if you want to talk about that.

[22:41] So assuming that the townships approve this agreement tonight, then that puts in place a set

[22:47] to up so that East Bay can take the next step in the financing. And I mentioned that these would be capital

[22:53] improvement bonds issued pursuant to state law act 34 of 2001 and under that statute that

[22:59] authorizes these big issues these capital improvement bonds it says that before East Bay can

[23:03] issue the bonds it has to publish a notice of intent in the newspaper setting forth its intent

[23:08] issue these bonds they're not to exceed principle amount which by the way will likely be about

[23:12] 6.5 million dollars even though we've got a you know estimated bond finance amount of

[23:19] of $6,405,000, usually put in a little bit of a buffer.

[23:24] But we put the notice in the newspaper, it describes the project says that East Bay

[23:28] intends to issue bonds in this not to exceed principal amount, and that then triggers a

[23:33] 45 day right of a referendum period, which would allow electors in East Bay

[23:39] Township to circulate petition saying, wait, before East Bay can issue these bonds,

[23:43] we want to hold a special election or put a question on the ballot at the general election.

[23:47] on whether or not East space should be authorized to issue those

[23:50] ponds.

[23:52] Those petitions, if signed by the requisite number,

[23:54] my recollection is 10% of the registered electors.

[23:57] If those petitions are filed, submitted, and verified,

[24:01] then East space would have to put it on the ballot,

[24:04] question of issue and so the ponds.

[24:06] If it was approved of the ballot,

[24:09] I believe it's 10%.

[24:10] I can verify.

[24:15] If sufficient petitions are filed,

[24:17] then you have to put it on the ballot.

[24:18] If insufficient petitions or no petitions are filed,

[24:21] he space free to go and issue the bonds,

[24:24] go through that process to issue the bonds.

[24:27] And as Beth mentioned, we don't have the exact precise timing

[24:31] worked out as to when that happened,

[24:32] but we want to get it teed up so that East Bay is ready to do it.

[24:37] So we expect that assuming this is approved tonight

[24:41] that East Bay on the very new near future,

[24:43] it could be even as soon as your August meeting,

[24:46] We'll consider a resolution of intent to issue those capital improvement bonds, authorize that notice of intent to be published in the newspaper.

[24:54] Start that 45 day right, read a referendum period. Once that period passes and again insufficient or no petitions are filed,

[25:02] then we can work on the timing when actually East Bay would go and sell those bonds.

[25:07] That gets us into the fall. That gets us into when we know exactly what the contracts the proposals are.

[25:13] And so we confirm up the numbers, we also have enough cash to float things, so which that means we can tailor when we pull, when we do the bond so that we get closest to the actual amount that is needed, which is nice.

[25:28] This is your interest curing cost and overall cost of townships.

[25:32] Very good questions here too.

[25:34] We'll be lucky in perspective.

[25:37] We have an intelligent, honest,

[25:40] for a special election that we've been confident of.

[25:42] Right.

[25:43] Then there wouldn't be an opportunity to

[25:45] have done so.

[25:47] Correct.

[25:48] That's correct.

[25:49] So that right.

[25:49] Hold on.

[25:52] But hopefully,

[25:53] complete by December 26th.

[25:57] No petitions.

[25:58] No petitions.

[25:59] No petitions.

[26:00] Yeah.

[26:00] Sure.

[26:03] Yep.

[26:03] That's correct.

[26:04] Yep.

[26:05] And I think too.

[26:06] I mean, while that is always an option and should be an option, also I think people

[26:12] recognize like all of us have that what value this project is doing.

[26:17] We've had that break.

[26:19] We were able to mitigate that break or I should say DPW was able to and we trim and we

[26:26] were lucky.

[26:26] And Doug and I have talked about that a lot.

[26:29] We're just so glad that a larger break has an happened

[26:33] one where we couldn't mitigate it.

[26:36] So we have no other options if we have a break on this.

[26:40] There's no redundancy in this line.

[26:43] And honestly, we are upshipped creek every pun intended

[26:46] if something happened.

[26:48] So I kind of think, hopefully the chances are small,

[26:52] that that would happen, particularly because the timing

[26:55] important on this project but I think we can we can manage that time. Time. Well,

[27:02] why did you have a question? Oh, okay. Other questions? Amy.

[27:08] It's a goes out. You have the 45 day window. Are we now under a window of when you

[27:13] have to go for a bond and you have to read public size? No, no, once it's done, check it

[27:19] off. We're done. Because we may not issue until early 2026, first quarter.

[27:36] So we're going to take a look at the very last page of your packet, and you can see

[27:57] The $1 million is taken off, whichever way you calculate it, it comes out to the same.

[28:04] But the $1 million, you'll see Acme's is taken right off of their commitment, and also from East-Base.

[28:12] Very, very less dangerous.

[28:15] And

[28:22] so the bonding amount is the required amounts together.

[28:30] So,

[28:33] it's literally the cost of the program,

[28:35] I'm sorry, the cost of the project,

[28:39] less the grants, the $3 million,

[28:41] and less the $2 million allocation.

[28:44] And Fair question was asked this week of me,

[28:47] which is, well, is that million dollars each staying

[28:50] with that township, right?

[28:52] So, like, we're not, you know,

[28:55] acne for example, isn't, is getting their $4 million

[29:00] e-space, getting their $4 million

[29:01] dollars and you can see that they are.

[29:07] You have to.

[29:11] I didn't act backwards to here.

[29:13] You can see it on there.

[29:14] You look it off to the right.

[29:17] We'll see

[29:20] it off to the right.

[29:23] So why they're doing that, Mark?

[29:25] Did you say that can we pay the minds off early?

[29:30] If they're outstanding, if the maturity is 10 years.

[29:36] I think the registered municipal advisor would tell you that it is unlikely that we'll be able to

[29:41] go for a competitive sale and tell the market,

[29:45] oh, we want to be able to pay these off.

[29:48] They'll want the market will want

[29:50] or demand to call protection,

[29:52] to know that they're going to get the return

[29:53] on their investment for a bond issue of 10 years.

[29:58] But that'll be a market kind of.

[30:02] Condition decision, though we've made a consultation with the Red Serum Municipal Advisor.

[30:12] For example, I'll say, like for a 20-year bond, you'll also often have, you know, you can call the bonds for exemption early after 12 years, 13 years, something like that.

[30:27] Did that answer your question, your good?

[30:30] I'm good in these, I saw our numbers and I understand it and answers my question.

[30:34] Okay, perfect, perfect, okay. Other questions?

[30:39] Yeah, my thank you, but I was just really, really mentioned before there's been a new

[30:47] modification to 2013, which was very good. How did there have been a supplement? Where is

[30:55] that supplement? No, so my point was, this agreement doesn't amend.

[31:01] It's the 2013 agreement.

[31:04] It supplements in the sense that it is putting into practice paragraph 5 with the 2013

[31:15] putting more of meat on the bones and what was set for from the 2013 agreement in section

[31:20] 5 of that agreement.

[31:23] Okay.

[31:23] Now I ask another question.

[31:25] And I don't want to open a camera once that is not on the set.

[31:29] But we've opened a lot with Mark over the past two minutes.

[31:33] I'm just a huge ruler.

[31:36] I'm kind of a human nation just to look at the African soil.

[31:40] When I look at, in the 2013 slavery century,

[31:43] it was truly great.

[31:45] However, I'm just asking the question I'm not going to make.

[31:49] How about there is 12 people around?

[31:55] And in there's some kind of misunderstanding that the state,

[32:04] And I think you can answer this question.

[32:06] I'm not a TV fan.

[32:07] Are you being here?

[32:08] He's being here.

[32:10] He's here at this.

[32:12] At the same time, he says, 90s and 50s and 80s.

[32:16] Whereas these big township frequencies, gravity centers,

[32:19] so it's four meters about a lot of old federal results.

[32:24] That wasn't 2000.

[32:27] You know, I know it's a lot of time now, if you just change.

[32:32] Okay.

[32:33] And I know the R&U's are, there's a year's passed.

[32:38] You're probably probably probably going to be there.

[32:42] But with a new technology, I'm this agreement only talks about measuring the R&U's.

[32:49] And with the flow analysis, and now the DBW is running from a high mental, 80-90% accuracy

[32:58] under flow reads in 2025, which is far better than the war in 2013, what it makes sense

[33:06] is a question to you, is your question on us, to not now, and not affecting what we're talking

[33:15] up with this capital project right now, but in the future, isn't time to start re-looking

[33:23] at that 2013 agreement the same, and then we've got new technology here, that is

[33:29] 80, 90, 95% efficient, would it be smart to include both and rely mainly on our years?

[33:41] But, our use have the problems to, for example, vacation or all of the business.

[33:50] You know, we're doing the best we can that our use system has in it, for instance, too.

[33:55] So what would it be smart for us in the future?

[33:58] We look at the sewer system user view usage area.

[34:03] And say, OK, we can continue to have views,

[34:05] but as a, I come from the engineer in the world.

[34:10] And it's always good to have a task.

[34:13] It would be what we call the task of, you know,

[34:16] reasons.

[34:18] So that, you're going through all these calculations.

[34:20] You've got this other task when you're done.

[34:22] You look at it, and you go ahead, let's do a test for this and we'll have another way

[34:25] in this that I'll make sense.

[34:27] What makes sense in the future to add a test of resilience into this process, because this

[34:36] sewage uses you to remember states that we are supposed to be monitoring flows on a annual basis.

[34:44] If we were to make sense, during that annual process of measuring flows on annual basis,

[34:50] to also be comparing actually flowed in and being able to monitor that and know where we are before,

[35:00] a capital care campaign comes along for the next board and they're trying to figure out how to do it.

[35:10] You work with a lot of different times, there's a lot of different municipalities, so it seems like you would be a good guy to ask this question.

[35:18] I am not trying to, is, anyway, upset the apple cart, this apple cart.

[35:27] How to start the answer?

[35:32] So one, and not to be a lawyer in science debt, but it would be a lawyer in science debt.

[35:40] The scope of what I've been asked to do somewhat limited.

[35:47] I have reviewed the 2013 agreement.

[35:49] I've reviewed that 2013 agreement with an eye towards allowing the townships to be able to finance this project and put into place, as I said at the beginning, using the roadmap in the 2013 agreement, a financing agreement for this project.

[36:04] So, that can't be honest, okay?

[36:09] It can't recite chapter and verse all the provisions in the 2013 agreement,

[36:14] because of, if you will, that limited scope of representation in the work that I've been asked to do.

[36:20] That being said, I think it's always appropriate for parties to agreement, long-term agreement,

[36:27] even if it's going great, and the parties get along and know the rights and responsibilities and obligations under the agreement.

[36:34] It's always you a check-in and make sure, all right, is this working, seems to be working, is it working?

[36:42] So I don't think what you suggest is unreasonable.

[36:45] That there is a periodic review and to your point, if there's new technology or updated technology, that can provide better, more reliable information that the party should consider that.

[36:59] and that wouldn't necessitate obviously then in an amendment to your agreement.

[37:05] Not that it's a reason not to do what you're suggesting,

[37:12] but go back to that can of worms, right?

[37:15] When you got an agreement that's working,

[37:18] if you start pulling it little pieces here and there,

[37:22] you know, does that unravel the agreement and cause more issues?

[37:27] Yeah, I have to create an issue.

[37:34] So, long lawyer answer. And to summarize, I'd say, yeah, not a bad idea to take a look at it. You know, in terms, I would, I'd be deferring to engineers as to whether or not it's appropriate to switch from either REU to flow or, as you suggest, to put in some sort of a frequent test that you would do to see if your flow is, is,

[37:59] and can measure it with your RAUs.

[38:02] I would defer to engineers on that.

[38:04] Dale, I think that's a great comment and suggestion.

[38:07] And I really appreciate your answer.

[38:11] I believe one thing that we can do is we do have a new director

[38:17] with the VPW and I think that over the next year,

[38:24] I want to put too much on his plate,

[38:26] and he's been with us for two months, right?

[38:30] We've had six months with an interim director, but you know what I'm saying, so he's got a lot on his plate, so I don't want to put too much in his first quarter of being here.

[38:41] But I do think that this wouldn't be a tough analysis to compare.

[38:45] Like what results we would get under the current agreement that we don't have a huge issue with, but we want to see, okay, what other data might they have?

[38:55] And how that data compares and does the result change significantly?

[39:11] We could, absolutely.

[39:12] I think we would do that in concurrence with the DPW and with our engineers.

[39:19] And then when we find that information out and we say, does this look significant or not?

[39:26] And you know what I mean by significant?

[39:28] Obviously there's a difference that makes the difference to a touch of its significant.

[39:31] But if we're talking miniscule, you know, 0.001, then clearly, you know, at the answers, but if there is a difference that we would want to implement, then we can pull in legal counsel to kind of redraft that and bring that back.

[40:20] So, this is our board's change, and then these thoughts and these ideas just get lost.

[40:28] And then 20 years down the road, we have another capital improvement.

[40:34] And we haven't done that, or even explored that.

[40:40] So, my question is, well, we're all here.

[40:43] You know, man, do you be doubting director?

[40:46] Would it be reasonable for us as a two combined boards to say, okay, we're going to give

[40:51] me here in September of 2020, 6th.

[40:56] We'll be organ-aged sports.

[40:58] I'm asking.

[41:00] I'm not suggesting.

[41:02] I'm asking.

[41:03] I'm asking.

[41:03] What are the thoughts on that?

[41:04] To actually make it a part of the record that this is something we're going to do.

[41:10] Okay, give it time.

[41:11] Yeah, I think, well, sure, as far as we're going to be meeting again, this project is a huge project for East Bay and Acme Townships.

[41:24] We have further steps. We are, I can foresee as at least meeting once, if not twice more, together as a joint township.

[41:31] And let Doug and I and working with Noah in our engineering consultants see what information we come up with in that interim period of time.

[41:45] And we can revisit that as we'll show in the minutes that this was discussed.

[41:50] Okay, can

[41:55] recently that are

[42:00] more, can we leave it as pending to discussion on the 2013

[42:05] agreement so that it reminds us all to continue this discussion?

[42:10] You absolutely can on your minutes because we're going to have two sets of minutes for each

[42:13] board.

[42:14] So if that's your strategy or your process with Acme Township, go for it.

[42:20] We typically just have it in the minutes and we've said that what we'll do that and the board

[42:25] will hold me accountable to that.

[42:26] But yeah, I think that that's possible, sure.

[42:32] Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

[42:35] I would love to pin you down, no.

[42:36] I two months into the job and say, come on, I lost.

[42:40] But we'll kind of work with everybody and the information.

[42:45] And I have to say, Doug has been fantastic to work with with this project,

[42:49] and really truly mean it, appreciate the joint meetings that we've had

[42:55] and also the involvement of the engineers together, and Doug as well, it's just been good collaboration.

[43:05] So hopefully we're looking at a successful sewer project. But with that, are there more questions or

[43:11] discussion? And if there's not, then we could look at consideration of the two resolutions that are

[43:17] in front of us. Do you want to have, and happy to have that happen? I didn't know if Andy was available

[43:22] I don't see on there any any one and I know Matt is doing this remotely let me see

[43:32] I don't have any texts from anybody does anybody have any specific questions for Andy we could yes

[43:54] down the pipe plants, but is there a way to utilize so much that not from each base perspective

[44:02] to reduce probably part of the product?

[44:05] Sure, I think with this document and Mark will correct me if I'm wrong, but with this document

[44:10] does this sets us up to be able to finance what we need to, if we follow this plan.

[44:17] Now, could we finance less?

[44:19] Yes, I think we could and we could identify that as the part that we take out less on an East Bay would then just lower our commitment that that would go into that bond.

[44:31] and my statement isn't saying that Agnes should bring more to the table, not all, but my

[44:39] own saying is we are pretty helpful. Right. And it's a changing conversation too because you

[44:48] remember when we started this project really it was that break happened during COVID and it was

[44:55] towards the tail end of COVID. So then by the time we got around to talking about the engineering

[45:00] I think we did an initial like $11,000 project with the engineers to take a look at the scope of it, and our cash balance and fund balance has changed since that time.

[45:14] So, even in the past 24 months, it's changed because of some of the development. So, that is something that we can take a look at, and as we move forward, and we definitively decide how much the bond will be.

[45:28] So, this sets us up to have the flexibility if we need to go to the full amount for this

[45:35] part, or if we want to do less.

[45:48] Correct.

[45:49] Once the bonds are issued, right?

[45:51] They don't change.

[45:52] You don't say ventures like an oil.

[45:54] The ventures can decrease.

[45:56] Though we can decide to take 2 million in cash and put that towards our portion or something

[46:02] like that.

[46:05] Yes.

[46:05] I just want to put it out there that at the point that the line is drawn in the sand.

[46:10] Make sure we have an opportunity to look at our numbers to say, okay, we're going to put in 1.5.

[46:16] So I just don't want that to pass.

[46:19] By us, and then all of a sudden it's going out to bond, and we want it to go more and now it's too late.

[46:23] So just...

[46:24] We're not going to be having a week with this.

[46:26] Just make sure.

[46:27] We won't.

[46:28] But we will be in touch.

[46:30] We're being touched.

[46:31] The other thing, too, that we didn't mention is this is all assuming that the bids come in

[46:38] that the estimated engineer's price. So again, we want to have that flexibility there as well,

[46:44] and maybe that's where we utilize some of our cash that we have available to.

[46:53] There will be a couple of points, right? We're proceeding down the path, but we're not at the end.

[47:02] That's your correct that when the bids come in so next step resolution of intent right doesn't mean you're obligated

[47:09] That he stays obligated to issue bonds just because we've done the resolution of intent but once we cross that check check that box that we've done it

[47:16] Then we can go on to the next step. Then we get the bids. We get a better idea

[47:20] You have a check-in point with both townships to say do we want to change in terms of any of our cash contribution and

[47:28] Then at that time when we're getting ready to sell the bonds

[47:32] We're going to put out and say, OK, we're going for 6.4 million or whatever that number is.

[47:40] But we reserve the right to reduce it.

[47:43] Reduce the amount that we're going to do for a number of reasons.

[47:46] And one might be just the way the market conditions are.

[47:49] The bonds are sold with the premium and that means you get extra cash more than what you've asked for.

[47:55] You've got to pay for it.

[47:57] So, then there's another opportunity right there, okay?

[48:02] Yes.

[48:03] One of the providers being trapped in that legal notice.

[48:08] And we'll make arrangements to have it published in the newspaper.

[48:11] So, then it complies.

[48:14] Right.

[48:14] My job as bond counsel.

[48:16] I prepare that resolution of intent.

[48:18] I prepare the notice.

[48:19] I get that notice published.

[48:21] I will prepare the bond authorizing resolution that will be presented to the,

[48:26] He's paid township board at the appropriate time.

[48:28] I'll prepare all of the closing documents

[48:30] and I'll work with Vincent's skin company

[48:32] with respect to the sale and all the requisites

[48:35] that you need to have validly issued bonds.

[48:39] And now, you know, I marked Nettleton

[48:40] was chosen to help us with this project.

[48:45] With that, does anyone have any further questions?

[48:48] Sure.

[48:48] I have two questions for two of our Acme board members.

[48:55] With this caveat, when, first of all, I'm so sorry.

[48:59] I was like, it's this meeting.

[49:01] Like, founders said seven, so I showed up early.

[49:03] But clearly, I am wrong with that.

[49:07] So I apologize.

[49:10] When I knew about this meeting, I thought this was going to be more discussion,

[49:14] fact-finding, and we're moving towards a voting and making decisions on spending money.

[49:19] So with that being said, I kind of need to hear from Amy from a money standpoint, is this a go just in the world of academia and budgeting, and then I would also like to hear from our lawyer, is there not information here to make sure that what we're voting on is what it used to be.

[49:39] I just felt like a lot of stuff came to me. I'm not, I would be uncomfortable with voting yet.

[49:45] Can I do just two quick caveats before they answer and one is, well, I forget the second so I'll do the first one.

[49:57] But that is, Mike Myers is retained for the benefit of the townships and in working with the townships on this project.

[50:07] We're both part of this project. That's the way I see it. That's the way we've worked towards it.

[50:12] I don't know if technically that's true or not,

[50:14] but I can tell you about the high level of collaboration.

[50:18] The second thing is we've had all documents,

[50:23] not only reviewed from engineering standpoint,

[50:25] but also the legal documents and over for review as well.

[50:29] And Jeff Jax can speak to that,

[50:31] but I think he's had a chance to take a look at him.

[50:33] Thank you for letting me interject.

[50:37] Amy first.

[50:37] You want me to go first?

[50:39] Okay, so all along,

[50:40] I've been putting in a million dollars.

[50:41] I mean, there's silver funds pretty good.

[50:43] are fund balance right now for restricted improvements

[50:46] that we have always done when we get our benefit fees, right?

[50:52] So this includes the million dollars.

[50:54] We have like $2.5 million in there right now.

[50:56] And then in replacement, we have $5 million

[50:58] and then in operational maintenance is 666,000.

[51:04] Basically five hundred and eleven thousand and 666,000.

[51:08] That's outside, that's just our fund balance, okay?

[51:12] not our operational that we're doing and the coming in and the coming out.

[51:17] We typically, if you look back a few years, we'll typically carry over and allocate and

[51:23] spread it through that about 250 to 300,000 dollars.

[51:28] Is what we typically get in the year that we're not spending.

[51:33] Typically, now there's years that Mark's been coming out on meetings a lot lately.

[51:37] I'm not going to say that's going to be true in the future.

[51:42] Because I know we have some monitoring that's going on.

[51:45] You just had a bunch of work done down on the road.

[51:48] So that may change.

[51:49] I can just tell you historically what it's about.

[51:52] So we could easily put in 1.5 million and be okay.

[51:55] They spend these numbers.

[51:57] But being conservative because we don't know what the future is.

[52:01] Some of the growth and some of the failures being that it's a big project.

[52:05] It might be easier to hold back the cash funds.

[52:08] We have that for reserves when we're already in the process fund.

[52:11] So that's a discussion.

[52:12] Once we get closer to it, but are the funds there?

[52:15] I mean, they're sure?

[52:18] I do one million dollars a winter.

[52:20] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[52:21] I'm going to be glad to do it.

[52:23] We're already talking about bond in the process and that's yeah.

[52:25] So in that sense, I would say yes.

[52:28] It's there in the basin.

[52:29] Thank you.

[52:30] Just what we all know, we had multiple little fractures. That one was one that all of our stuff comes through. We have to do this line somehow and we are going to have some type of disaster in that line. With the roads that East Bay is having, the roads that acne is having, we are just being that line.

[52:50] So age of one, age of one, right, absolutely.

[52:56] So hold this 60?

[52:58] Oh, there's the year's old.

[53:01] So I would say yes, and that's why we do this.

[53:03] And that's why we've set it up that way to have some funding right now.

[53:06] We won't have to go anywhere else with the assumption it comes in line with the estimates.

[53:12] Let me show you.

[53:13] Okay.

[53:14] Thank you.

[53:17] But again, I didn't hear Mr. Nettleton saying the thing that I took issue with it, it's

[53:23] agreed with. So all that you've heard from him say, you've been know that I concur with that.

[53:29] I reviewed all the documents. The only thing that I didn't have until recently were the numbers,

[53:36] which I didn't review the numbers. I've had any data that I've not been presented to ask to me,

[53:40] but the documents themselves, I have no issue with there.

[53:44] It's just an agreement, you have a point, there are two agreements, yeah, I'm kind of comfortable with that.

[53:51] I did do the math, and it did bounce up. Based on the numbers we're talking about, so I didn't, I'm just scratching, whatever spreadsheet we got from a while ago.

[54:01] So, I didn't think the math.

[54:04] Other questions from either board? Mark?

[54:07] I just kind of won last point, Andy Campbell, it been since we've worked with Vincent's

[54:14] Game Company and I've worked with Andy for many, many years and it's very easy to work

[54:18] with.

[54:19] And so he did prepare the documents that show up as exhibit C. Again, those are estimates.

[54:28] This is a proposed repayment schedule for a 6.4 million dollar bond.

[54:34] This is a projected, you know, when you see coupon, that's the projected interest rate that a purchaser of the bonds would pay for these various securities.

[54:44] That interest rate in the final principle amount and kind of the final repayment schedule.

[54:53] That's all going to be set by a competitive sale of bonds yet to come.

[54:58] So, specifically in the back, there's a sheet that looks like this, it's a set of dead service animal.

[55:09] So, if you have it, that's there, right?

[55:14] So, again, that coupon is the interest rate.

[55:17] That's going to be determined by the market on the sale date, when they set submit a bid.

[55:23] We sell the bonds based on the lowest true interest cost to the township.

[55:29] Over the time period.

[55:31] And, like I mentioned, we'll be able to, at the time of sale, if necessary, reduce the principle amount that's borrowed and modify these materials as necessary.

[55:48] Yes, ma'am.

[55:49] Can you see this?

[55:50] It's all right, and interest.

[55:53] It's not when they be fixed.

[55:55] Interest?

[55:56] The usually, aren't.

[55:57] So it may or may not be.

[56:00] It's going to depend on market conditions at the time of the sale.

[56:04] Oftentimes on a shorter term bond issue, you'll see different

[56:10] interest rates, depending on the maturity.

[56:13] And as you get later, farther out in time, to protect the

[56:19] purchaser and their interest rate risk exposure, the interest rates,

[56:23] often times are higher.

[56:29] Okay, if there is no further discussion, East Bay Township's resolution would be 2025-16 and

[56:41] our resolution is the second resolution, are there further questions or is there a motion

[56:48] on the resolution?

[56:49] Okay,

[57:04] that's quartet has moved and Bartlett has supported the adoption of Resolution 2025-16.

[57:16] The resolution to approve the agreement regarding financing of sewer improvement.

[57:25] It's right here. One more page on.

[57:32] It's stuck together. There you go. Sorry, this pages were stuck together.

[57:36] Yes, thank you.

[57:38] So with that further discussion?

[57:41] Yes, just one question.

[57:44] I've always been thinking we should be self-funded in this.

[57:47] But if we enter into this agreement, is that kind of off the table?

[57:51] No, it's kind of going back to our prior discussion earlier.

[57:56] You can always increase your contribution and decrease the amount that you have to borrow.

[58:00] I'll just move forward if we can.

[58:04] Thank you.

[58:05] Would you do a roll call vote, please?

[58:09] Okay, yes.

[58:10] Are you left?

[58:10] Yes.

[58:12] Yes.

[58:13] Yes.

[58:14] Yes.

[58:16] Yes.

[58:17] All right.

[58:17] Thank you very much.

[58:20] But turn that over to Acme Township to see if they would entertain a motion on the resolution.

[58:36] You

[58:45] know we had that happen before and what we do is we usually put in the motion that

[58:49] it be numbered in the next sequential number and no one's ever fought us on that.

[58:58] I'll make a motion for resolution 25 or 2025 dash differential number once we confirm it.

[59:08] the agreement regarding the financing of the source systems in person project

[59:27] between the

[59:44] Steven? Yes.

[59:47] Swanson, yes.

[59:49] Wiley?

[59:50] Yes.

[59:50] White.

[59:51] Yes.

[59:54] Okay, very good.

[59:56] Well, we have, we are set up now too.

[1:00:01] And I just want to thank you, Mark, for driving up here from Grand Rapids, really appreciate it.

[1:00:08] I want to thank again Wade Trim, Gosling Zubek, and the DPW for being here and for all of the many meetings and emails that go into bringing this to the two boards.

[1:00:20] So really appreciate that.

[1:00:21] We do have additional public commenter. Second opportunity for public comment.

[1:00:26] We've drawn a lot of public. I thought Aaron was the public, but Aaron's not the public, so if there's any one who wants to make public comment

[1:00:35] I do a housekeeping item. You may. I can ask if there's a specific

[1:00:38] click for a sign copy of the resolution and then Beth and Doug I'll be in touch in terms of we get a final

[1:00:44] execution copy and you guys can sign it and I'll want a copy of that once it's done. Absolutely

[1:00:57] Great. Thank you. Thanks so much for seeing everybody. Thank you. All right, with that, and seeing no public comment, we each have our regular monthly meetings coming up in August, and is there if there's no objection, then we stand adjourned. No objection. Did you object?

[1:01:25] Well, it's been a team effort, absolutely, from us driving to Lansing in a snow storm, which didn't produce any funding, but the Fed rolled it and the county did, so that's a good thing.

[1:01:39] But anyway, thank you. Again, if no one objects to stand adjourned, thank you for being here.

East Bay Charter Twp. Board & Acme Twp. Board Special Meeting 7/29/2025

Transcript