[0:16] Well, good evening, good afternoon, or good morning

[0:19] whenever you happen to be listening to this podcast.

[0:21] My name is Marvinetta Woodley Penn,

[0:24] and this is all stories matter.

[0:26] You know, I decided to do this podcast and call it that

[0:30] because I just don't think that we are as engaged

[0:34] as we could be with one another's stories.

[0:38] Everybody has a story.

[0:40] I don't care how old you are, how young you are,

[0:43] you have a story, something has happened

[0:45] to you in this time, that you've been on this earth,

[0:48] and that thing is worth sharing with everybody.

[0:51] You know, I was just at home with my grandchildren

[0:55] and they wanted to know the story about their dad,

[0:58] and I'm in the car with their dad.

[1:00] I'm like, how much of this story should I tell?

[1:04] So we have to have a conversation

[1:05] because our, his children, my grandchildren wanna know,

[1:10] and I'm gonna tell them the story, the good, the bad,

[1:14] the indifferent, the ugly, the beautiful.

[1:16] They will know the story, then they will know their history.

[1:21] And there's nothing more beautiful than knowing the who,

[1:25] the why, the what, the how of your personal story.

[1:30] So today I have two people here who are going

[1:33] to share their story.

[1:35] These are my friends from the Civic

[1:37] Theater, my Forever Friends.

[1:39] Now that I have met them,

[1:41] we have Miss Katie, and we have Mr.

[1:43] Christopher and you will get to know their story today.

[1:47] So sit back, relax, get a cup of coffee

[1:50] or a cocktail depending on the time of day,

[1:53] and enjoy this story.

[1:55] So Katie, I'm going to start with you. Yes.

[1:58] Katie Martin Neck? Yes.

[1:59] Or Martin Neck, or Martin Neck, or how do you pronounce it?

[2:03] It's actually, it's Checklist of Volcan. Okay.

[2:05] So it's Martin Neck.

[2:06] Martin Neck, yep. Okay, very good. Very good.

[2:09] I appreciate people's names. Katie, tell me your story,

[2:13] wherever you wanna begin, because I'm gonna

[2:14] go back way you are.

[2:16] Okay. Back up to the prison and then forward. Yeah.

[2:19] Okay, awesome. I was actually born in St.

[2:22] Joseph, Michigan. So I'm from around the area. Okay.

[2:27] And I pretty much lived there my whole life up

[2:29] until I became 18.

[2:32] And I went away for college for a little bit.

[2:35] It didn't work out.

[2:37] So I came back and did Lake Michigan Community College.

[2:40] And I actually got involved in the theater program

[2:43] there. So that was

[2:44] In college in, Yes, in college.

[2:46] I actually, though going back, I have been taking

[2:49] structured, danced since I was three.

[2:52] So dancing is really

[2:53] what got me on the stage since I was very young at

[2:57] three. So, okay.

[2:59] And how did you like that?

[3:00] Do you have memories of being, of being in dance class then?

[3:04] Yes, absolutely. I can remember my first, it was ballet

[3:07] where we started at three

[3:09] and we were little chicks, so little yellow chick costumes.

[3:13] Right. Like just classic. How cute.

[3:16] And then as I got older, I started taking ballet, tap,

[3:20] jazz, acrobats.

[3:22] So it just became a whole thing for me all the way

[3:25] through until I was 18.

[3:28] Oh, wow. So being a trained dancer there.

[3:30] Nice, nice.

[3:32] So I just heard a little, I overheard a little bit

[3:37] that you're going to be having those skills on

[3:40] display very soon.

[3:42] Yes. And we will talk about that. Yeah.

[3:44] So it was when you were in college

[3:46] that you really got into theater

[3:48] and decided, oh yes. I like this too.

[3:50] In fact, my first audition

[3:52] for a musical was when I was 10.

[3:55] And it was Annie and I forgot the words too tomorrow.

[4:00] So I had a very big thing when I was little, being a dancer.

[4:04] It was funny. I still had stage fright.

[4:06] So I messed up the words to that audition.

[4:08] And then I was in a group called Sunshine Kids,

[4:11] and it was a Christian traveling, singing troop.

[4:15] We wore rainbow colors and St.

[4:18] Joseph has a bluff

[4:20] and we sang, make a Grateful Noise unto the Lord

[4:23] of the Earth, make a joyful noise.

[4:25] And I messed up those the earth.

[4:27] So I kind of had these like

[4:30] misses when I was little, little.

[4:32] And then once I got to community college, I was like,

[4:35] you know what, I'm gonna give it a go again.

[4:37] And Barnum was the first musical

[4:39] that I ended up auditioning for there.

[4:42] So. Nice. And you got that. I did ensemble.

[4:44] I was a lion, tamer, tamer, and a acrobat. So,

[4:48] So the dancing it, It came kicked

[4:51] Right in for You?

[4:52] It kicked right back in. Yeah. Very

[4:53] Good.

[4:54] There we go. And you auditioned for Annie

[4:56] and here it was Annie.

[4:57] We were all three.

[4:59] Yeah. And Annie, we were at the Civic

[5:01] and we just had the best time

[5:02] Magical show.

[5:03] I mean, Mrs. Pew, Mrs. Greer, bundles.

[5:07] Bundles, And the holidays at the Pacific. Always the

[5:10] Best. Oh, it was so

[5:11] Magical Always. Oh

[5:12] Yeah.

[5:13] Those were some great shows. It was a lot of them.

[5:15] I know a lot of them it is.

[5:16] But it was still so much fun. It's

[5:18] So fun.

[5:19] I miss it because it is a family unit, you know,

[5:20] especially around the holidays. Indeed. Yeah, indeed.

[5:23] So, Chris, what about you? What is your story Begin?

[5:28] Most definitely. So I grew up in Wheaton, Illinois.

[5:31] Wheat or Wheaton Warrenville area right outside of Chicago.

[5:34] Yeah. I was adopted at the age of four.

[5:39] Brought into foster care at the age of two.

[5:41] Never lived with another family.

[5:42] So it was me and my adopted mom.

[5:46] I grew up, when I was five,

[5:48] I started taking dance classes at a dance studio

[5:52] because I had some mobility,

[5:54] like I was having issues balancing and stuff.

[5:56] So my mom thought, oh, that'd be great.

[5:58] She didn't know anything about dance.

[5:59] She was a sports person. Yeah.

[6:01] So she never really, she enjoyed theater,

[6:03] but never really was a theater per like a performer. So

[6:07] Was it your therapist who said that you should take

[6:10] Dance?

[6:11] Yeah. Yep. So the occupational therapist

[6:12] and the physical therapist both recommended it.

[6:15] So I ended up taking dance, ended up becoming a part

[6:19] of like a competitive dance team.

[6:21] Oh. That was called Minis.

[6:23] It was a part of a dance studio

[6:24] called Stephanie's Academy of Dance.

[6:26] They're actually still in business.

[6:27] I think they're on their 20th

[6:28] anniversary this year. It's kind of crazy.

[6:30] Oh. Have you been back and said, Hey,

[6:32] I'm gonna give you guys a couple of dollars.

[6:33] You know, you started me on

[6:34] My route.

[6:35] I follow along online

[6:36] and kind of followed their, what they're up to.

[6:38] Nice. But kind of grew up doing ballet, tap jazz, modern

[6:43] competitively until I was in high school.

[6:47] Or eh, seventh grade is when I stopped competitive dancing.

[6:51] But I auditioned for the Joffrey Ballet Nutcracker

[6:53] when I was young as well.

[6:55] And I was actually in their

[6:56] children's ensemble for quite a few years. Growing. Nice.

[6:59] Growing up. So you were driving in,

[7:00] your parents were driving you into Chicago.

[7:02] Yep. Yep. And it was just single mom and then Dedicat.

[7:07] We Usually had up to six foster kids

[7:10] that she would foster a time too.

[7:13] What an amazing woman. Yeah. So,

[7:16] Yeah. Is she still with us?

[7:19] She is. We don't necessarily have a relationship.

[7:25] When my grandfather passed away, she was never the same.

[7:29] And so he passed away when I was in the eighth grade.

[7:32] And so like, our relationship just always

[7:35] was kind of rocky from there.

[7:36] Okay. Unfortunately. Okay. So wonderful human.

[7:41] Yes. I mean, I don't regret anything in life. Mm.

[7:45] But growing, not necessarily Either. Growing. Yep.

[7:46] Growing up there was always a very positive

[7:48] light and Yeah. Yeah.

[7:49] Yeah. But, and growing up being a

[7:52] teenager is already difficult.

[7:54] Oh yeah. Because you're finding your way, you're finding out

[7:57] who you are, and it's like, oh my God.

[8:00] And your the parents

[8:01] or the authority figure, whoever's there, they're struggling

[8:05] with you going from childhood to going into adulthood.

[8:10] That can be a, you're like, yes, I got hit. I know

[8:14] I'm doing it now.

[8:16] And it's you, you wanna give them grace.

[8:18] 'cause you remember how hard it was at 15.

[8:20] I have a 15-year-old and an 18-year-old at home.

[8:23] And obviously the 18-year-old, he's in college.

[8:25] He, I want him to be as much of adult

[8:28] as necessary and what he could do.

[8:29] But I'm still got the reminders going, you know? Indeed.

[8:32] And then with Oakley, my 15-year-old, I mean,

[8:36] she is miss Independent.

[8:37] She knows what she wants,

[8:39] but there's still guidance that is needed there.

[8:41] Yes. As a 15-year-old, you know? Yes.

[8:42] So it's that fine line of, yes, I'm still your parent,

[8:45] but I almost feel like a, you know,

[8:48] the buffers in a bowling lane.

[8:49] Right. You, you gotta bounce off of me.

[8:52] It's okay to make mistakes and I want you to make mistakes.

[8:54] I think that's the biggest thing right now. Yeah. Yeah.

[8:56] Is to learn how to cope.

[8:58] Learn how to cope and recover. Yes. Yes.

[9:01] Learn how to get back up, start it off.

[9:04] Learn the lessons you need to learn. I'm going through that.

[9:07] Even with my grandchildren who are 11,

[9:11] they wanna have a girlfriend, they're twins.

[9:15] And one is very popular. The other one isn't so popular.

[9:19] He's gonna hear this. I'm sorry.

[9:21] I'm sorry that I'm telling your story. It's okay.

[9:23] Because other children are going through this,

[9:25] so I'm just using you as an example sweetheart.

[9:28] But they have different personalities. Yeah.

[9:32] And some one is a, is really in a group.

[9:36] The other one isn't. So there's some conflict there.

[9:39] But I'm like, you have your own journey. Yes.

[9:41] And you have your own journey.

[9:43] And don't get so into your friends

[9:46] that you forget your brother.

[9:48] Yeah. You will always have your brother,

[9:50] not necessarily your friends.

[9:52] I am not interviewing myself. I'm interviewing.

[9:55] Yeah. But it's, it's, it's that connection. It all.

[9:58] It does. Yep. And I think I really appreciate as a mother

[10:03] that my kids, they have really bonded.

[10:05] They've always been pretty close. There's only three years,

[10:07] but this last year, Jake takes Oakley

[10:11] to school and picks her up every day.

[10:12] Thank you, Jake. I love you. But they've really bonded.

[10:16] Oh, that's awesome. So like, Jake coming into his adulthood

[10:19] and you know, girls do mature a bit quicker Yeah.

[10:21] Than males. And in that aspect,

[10:24] they're almost on the same level.

[10:25] And it's great to see as a parent where you can just kind

[10:27] of like, all right, job is mostly done.

[10:31] I say mostly you got, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[10:33] That is nice. That is

[10:34] Awesome.

[10:35] Awesome. No, you don't have any children, Christopher? No,

[10:39] No children.

[10:40] Well, Oakley and Jake, you do

[10:42] Have side, you have, you know, little adopted children.

[10:46] I'll send mine him. Okay, cool.

[10:49] What about your siblings? Were they technically siblings?

[10:52] The other foster children

[10:53] Who were up enough?

[10:54] So when I was in the sixth grade, my half brother

[10:59] came to, or we found out that he, I was curious about like,

[11:03] did my birth mother have any more children?

[11:05] Okay. And so we didn't know.

[11:07] And so he had been actually brought into foster care.

[11:10] He's five years younger than I am.

[11:12] And so he was living with another family.

[11:15] And that other family we went to visit where like,

[11:18] he's gonna be adopted by this other family.

[11:20] So we were all prepared for that.

[11:22] And then he ended up, the family decided that he needed

[11:26] to be with like our family because of the sibling.

[11:31] Or like, they wanted him to have a sibling

[11:34] that was like blood related.

[11:35] Yes. So they decided that they weren't gonna adopt him.

[11:38] And so he came and lived with us.

[11:40] And then we adopted him as well.

[11:42] Or, and then I have a brother, his name is Massimo.

[11:46] I still talked with with him.

[11:49] He is not related to me at all,

[11:52] but is four years younger than me.

[11:55] And so we've always been pretty close and yeah. Nice.

[11:58] And then I have a sister Annalise,

[12:00] when I was a junior in high school.

[12:02] She's a half sister as well. All, all have the same mom.

[12:06] She ended up moving in with us when I was a junior.

[12:10] And then she was adopted in 2016, I think.

[12:15] Okay. So, yep. Wonderful big family. Yes.

[12:19] Lots of you Guys running around.

[12:21] Yeah. Always had foster kids as well. And Okay.

[12:24] Other, sometimes some of those foster children would live

[12:27] with us for a few days 'cause we,

[12:29] they needed a respite care. How

[12:30] Did you, how, how did you,

[12:32] how did you navigate that? How did you feel

[12:34] About that issue?

[12:35] It was always just like, we always just kind

[12:36] of knew someone might be coming to live with us. Yeah. Wow.

[12:39] Okay. And you were all just cool with it all.

[12:43] We got another person here.

[12:44] I guess when you're a kid, you don't

[12:45] really know the difference.

[12:46] Looking back at it now was probably weird, but like

[12:49] Parents, how did that happen?

[12:50] Parents. And then the parents just made it seem like,

[12:52] oh, we got more people.

[12:54] Yep. That is so awesome.

[12:56] Yeah. It was really cool. Yeah. When, when

[12:58] You think about The children in need

[13:00] know these days, go

[13:01] Ahead.

[13:02] Yeah, most definitely. There was like children also

[13:03] that would have like special needs

[13:05] or attachment disorders and stuff like that.

[13:07] And so like, just like seeing people in all their different

[13:09] walks of life and what

[13:10] they're, what they were going through.

[13:12] I feel like as an adult has maybe more empathetic towards

[13:15] people that might not necessarily fit

[13:18] in with the normal crowd.

[13:20] And you are definitely that person.

[13:22] Yes, he is. Yeah. You feel deeply for people.

[13:26] I try to, sometimes you have to,

[13:28] sometimes you have to shut that off too.

[13:29] Yeah. Yeah. But definitely

[13:31] because you can wind up taking on people's energies.

[13:33] Yeah. You can't be taking that home

[13:34] all the time either. Well,

[13:35] I'm sure you're empath.

[13:37] Empath. Yeah. Yeah. And we take on

[13:39] people's energies. Yeah. Really. Do

[13:41] I have to shut it down? Yeah. Oh

[13:43] Yeah.

[13:44] Oh my God. That's, I, yeah.

[13:45] I go into like, you know, you have to protect yourself

[13:47] because you can get drained very easily that way. Yeah.

[13:51] So did you know that you had this

[13:56] performance side, this empath?

[13:58] Because I think that in order to be on stage

[14:00] and to be effective on stage, you have

[14:02] to have a little of that, right?

[14:04] Yes. Did you know as a child that there was something,

[14:06] did you ever feel like there was something different about

[14:09] you that you just didn't always fit in?

[14:14] Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it's necessarily

[14:17] different or didn't always fit in.

[14:20] I loved people. I loved going up talking to people.

[14:24] So I was that kid that would be like, hi, I'm Katie.

[14:27] You know? And I think it's obviously stuck

[14:29] with me into my middle age.

[14:32] I was always that way.

[14:34] And I would always say I was personable.

[14:35] I think a word that has been used

[14:39] to describe me since I was little was bubbly.

[14:41] Right? Yeah. So I,

[14:42] and I know that sometimes it's always not good

[14:45] to have like the big energy.

[14:47] You know, some people don't perceive that

[14:49] as a good thing sometimes, you know what I mean?

[14:51] And, and take it as like, whoa, what's happening?

[14:54] Like I need to set back. But I have also been

[14:57] just very true in myself.

[14:58] So I've just, I, not that I don't have insecurities,

[15:02] 'cause I do, we all do.

[15:03] But I just kind of try to lead with kindness

[15:05] and live that way, you know?

[15:07] And hope that I know sometimes, you know,

[15:10] I'll put my foot in my mouth or something.

[15:12] 'cause I obviously, I'm a talker. We have to, we'll

[15:15] Do. Yeah.

[15:16] Yeah. But it just, I think as a performer, I think

[15:18] that goes hand in hand.

[15:20] You know? And you're, and and being able to relate to people

[15:23] because you have to be able to, you know,

[15:25] give back in a scene when you're acting to know

[15:29] that in your personal life already is so good

[15:32] to bring that to the stage. Yeah.

[15:34] So you never had an issue being outgoing and,

[15:39] and awe when you were a kid

[15:41] With friends?

[15:42] No, other than the flubs like with my, you know,

[15:44] make a joyful noise into the Lord.

[15:46] And then the Annie auditioned those

[15:48] and I obviously those stuck with me

[15:50] because like I can, I can remember, you know?

[15:52] Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

[15:53] My kazoo, I was like, just put your kazoo in your mouth.

[15:57] But other than that, I was always the one

[15:59] that I feel like if someone is new,

[16:01] I wanna go up and say hi.

[16:03] Yeah. You know what I mean?

[16:04] You're, no, you're no longer new. Right. Good for you.

[16:07] Because I,

[16:08] and I think basing it on like a civic level, I came in

[16:14] to do the workshop for Hunchback

[16:17] and you know, coming in

[16:18] as a brand new person, there's a lot.

[16:20] I mean, it's a family. That

[16:21] Was your first experience with the Civic

[16:23] Minus polka dots?

[16:25] I got called in to help with wigs for that one.

[16:26] Okay. With Oakley. Oakley

[16:28] Was that, oh no.

[16:29] We have to figure out how you, I know

[16:30] how you navigated this course, but let me just ask you.

[16:33] Yeah, yeah. Chris, growing up, did you, did you know

[16:36] that you were, there was something in you

[16:40] that was pulling you to the stage?

[16:43] Most definitely kept being pulled back

[16:45] to the stage time and time again.

[16:46] Okay. I don't know if I ever thought

[16:48] that it would lead to where I am now.

[16:51] Like job wise, yes.

[16:53] But I didn't know if that was always an option. So yeah.

[16:56] You don't always have to be an actor on stage.

[16:58] Now, in my day to day, I plan events

[17:01] and make the civic look beautiful

[17:04] and make sure the patrons are happy and

[17:06] Wonderful.

[17:07] Yeah. So did you have a group that you fit in with?

[17:10] I always felt like an outsider, so I'm just trying

[17:12] to see if anybody, if anybody would like me.

[17:14] Yeah. I didn't, never really, I just did not fit

[17:15] in with the other kids.

[17:17] And I always knew, I knew that I was gonna be on stage.

[17:22] Oh yeah. You on stage.

[17:23] Did anybody have, did anybody else have

[17:25] That Feeling?

[17:26] I mean, I never really was like at school a lot.

[17:29] Like I was at school during the day,

[17:30] but I never did like extracurriculars.

[17:32] 'cause I was always busy doing like, dance related dancing,

[17:36] going to Chicago, going to the city.

[17:38] Yeah. And so there were days where, I mean, I just,

[17:42] I knew kids in my class, but I didn't know them.

[17:44] It wasn't until high school where I really like made like

[17:47] friends, I would say.

[17:50] Cool, cool, cool. All my friends lived in Chicago

[17:53] or lived in other suburbs.

[17:54] Whoa. Yeah. That wasn't,

[17:56] and they were all a part of the dance scene.

[17:57] Yeah. Okay. So you had your, you had a community? I

[18:01] Did, yeah.

[18:02] I just was the outsider, like the school and the normal,

[18:06] The normal kids.

[18:07] Yeah. The normal kids. The normies.

[18:10] See we didn't have, we didn't have dance programs

[18:13] where I grew up in East St.

[18:14] Louis. We didn't have theater programs where I grew up.

[18:17] We just had a high school choir and church choir. Yeah.

[18:20] And that was about it. So I know I would've been involved

[18:23] had we had those things.

[18:24] Right. But we just didn't.

[18:26] So I was like, oh, well one day it's all good. Look at

[18:29] You now. Look at you now. Life,

[18:31] Life has a way

[18:32] of bringing you whatever it is that you need.

[18:35] Yeah, you do. You put it out there.

[18:38] I, on the friend front, I went to Christ Lutheran.

[18:41] And you were,

[18:43] You were in a, a Christian School?

[18:44] I was raised, yes. Very conservative. Christian. Lutheran.

[18:48] Okay. Since kindergarten through eighth grade.

[18:52] And our fifth and sixth grade and our seventh

[18:54] and eighth grade classes

[18:55] were together 'cause we were so small.

[18:57] So I grew up very, I always felt way too big for that.

[19:02] Very tight, you know. Oh,

[19:04] I can imagine.

[19:05] Upbringing. So that was good to have different outlets

[19:07] with dance 'cause it wasn't part of that school

[19:09] or you know, I hung out with the public kids,

[19:12] you know, that was another thing.

[19:15] And then I was lucky enough to go

[19:16] to Lake Shore High School public school.

[19:17] But as far as friends, my best friend

[19:20] that since I was three,

[19:22] she actually lives in Kalamazoo with her husband.

[19:24] So like full circle. Just a weird shout out to Mandy.

[19:29] Weird moment Tuesday.

[19:32] How did she get to Kalamazoo?

[19:33] She went to West, well her husband went to Western. Okay.

[19:36] Then she came up here and they never, they never left.

[19:39] So it's kind of weird how I ended up here. So many.

[19:42] How did you end up here?

[19:43] I mean, my story's crazy.

[19:45] So after I did community college

[19:47] at Lake Michigan Community College, I moved to Chicago

[19:50] to do cosmetology school. So that's

[19:53] There, here in the makeup part comes in. Okay.

[19:56] And then I moved to Miami

[19:58] and lived there for five years. But

[20:00] Why did you, why Maya?

[20:03] I hate to say it a guy, it was our guy.

[20:06] Of course I told my parents it wasn't a guy,

[20:08] but of course it was a guy.

[20:09] Obviously that relationship did

[20:11] not work out and that's fine.

[20:13] But I also met my best friend, business partner that I, I,

[20:17] I mean, so it's just like every little avenue

[20:21] I now in my life have a piece of that.

[20:23] Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So,

[20:27] So cool.

[20:28] It's fun. So wait a minute, wait a minute. Yeah.

[20:30] You went to Chicago,

[20:32] Did cosmetology.

[20:33] Cosmetology at Pivot. Why Cosme at Pivot Born?

[20:36] I remember Pivot Point. I'm gonna

[20:38] get to how you game to Oh yeah.

[20:39] How you love Chicago area. Yeah. And got to Kalamazoo. Yeah.

[20:42] So just keep all those stories in mind. Gotta

[20:45] Build it up.

[20:47] Yeah. So I did cosmetology. Why I always loved doing hair.

[20:51] So in, in high school, I mean first of all,

[20:53] all my Barbies dolls.

[20:55] Yeah. All their hair's cut, you know what I mean?

[20:57] I always like, I was in there with it.

[20:59] Makeup, always loved it.

[21:01] And in high school, I would be

[21:02] the one doing my friend's hair.

[21:03] I'd be the one doing Updos.

[21:05] So I'm like, why not get trained?

[21:08] And I was looking at Vidal Suun in London. Oh. Ooh.

[21:11] Don't think I'm not, yeah,

[21:12] I kick myself every once in a while in this middle age life.

[21:14] But I ended up in Chicago, which was great.

[21:17] And at the time my brother lived at the apartment

[21:20] across the street from me too.

[21:21] So, you know, again, being that 19-year-old close to 20,

[21:27] it, it was really good to have that support

[21:29] and plus hop, skip and jump away from home at the time.

[21:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[21:33] Awesome. And your parents sound phenomenal. No,

[21:39] I wanna say that you

[21:41] Were just that kind of kid. I gotta

[21:42] Do it.

[21:43] Well I was raised, I have no, I had no want as a kid.

[21:46] I had no want. No need As a kid, everything was great.

[21:51] You know, unfortunately my mother

[21:54] and I did not get along very well.

[21:56] And coming up work now coming up on six years

[21:59] that I haven't had a relationship with my parents

[22:03] or my brother, which is very sad.

[22:05] But I actually have a very good

[22:07] relationship with my brother's wife.

[22:09] Okay. So I'm not completely, you know, away from it.

[22:14] But I healthy enough for me to have a little touch into it.

[22:17] But I worked through therapy

[22:19] and it was the right decision, especially for my husband

[22:21] and my kids and I, yes.

[22:23] Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So good for you.

[22:24] But as far as childhood, I always say like

[22:27] I wouldn't change anything.

[22:29] My father, you know, he was loved me unconditionally.

[22:33] Yeah. Yes. Yep. That's

[22:34] Awesome.

[22:35] Awesome. You,

[22:36] you were just a trailblazer making your way from St.

[22:40] Joe. I'm going to Chicago

[22:42] and now I'm going to live in Florida and from Florida.

[22:47] Aw. Yes. So what I realized

[22:50] with being a cosmetologist Yeah.

[22:52] Is you don't get health insurance. Oh.

[22:55] And I got kidney stones while I was in Florida

[22:58] and ended up with a, you know,

[23:00] I was in the hospital like five different times

[23:02] 'cause I was obstructed.

[23:03] So what I realized, what is important, especially at

[23:06] that timeframe in my life, 21, 22, I need something

[23:10] that will pay for health insurance when there's emergency.

[23:12] So I ended up leaving as artistic director at a salon

[23:17] and I did the educational and I loved it,

[23:19] but I really needed a job that would give me the benefits.

[23:23] Yes. So my leasing office at where I lived was hiring

[23:26] for a leasing agent and they're like, you talk to anybody?

[23:31] No. How serendipitous that. Yeah.

[23:33] So I ended up working with this

[23:35] leasing office, which is great.

[23:36] I got health benefits, still did hair on the side. Yeah.

[23:38] Worked at Carabas. Did like three different jobs.

[23:41] Then Reef Management, who the leasing company was through,

[23:45] had accounts payable in Chicago.

[23:48] And at this time I still had a

[23:50] relationship like with my family.

[23:51] So I had to come back for help.

[23:53] I was about, I wanted to move closer.

[23:55] So I applied for that job over Christmas.

[23:57] So I ended up getting that job. This was January, 2005.

[24:02] I ended up moving back into Chicago. Oh boy. Yeah. Yeah.

[24:06] Which is a funny story. I know we'll get to it.

[24:08] But the day, January 22nd, 2005 when I was

[24:11] moving my stuff in, yeah.

[24:13] Blizzard, my husband now called me on the

[24:17] phone and I'm sitting in my apartment.

[24:18] He had no idea that I had moved back to home.

[24:21] So I just always remember that date too. Yeah.

[24:26] You got so many reading. We do that stories my adhd. Oh

[24:30] No, no, no, no it's not.

[24:32] It's just your life. Your life. Yeah. Chris.

[24:34] Yes. How did you get from

[24:38] after you graduated high school?

[24:42] I did two years at the local community college

[24:44] College of DuPage.

[24:46] Okay. Okay. I know College Illinois Glen of DuPage,

[24:48] they have their best jazz station there.

[24:50] They do, yeah. They do have good jazz Station

[24:51] W dcb.

[24:52] Yep, they do.

[24:54] And then was dating someone

[24:57] and was doing theater in the Chicagoland area.

[25:01] Non-equity kind of theater. Wait

[25:02] A minute, how did you get into theater?

[25:03] You can't skip over that. Okay.

[25:05] So No. So I was in dance. Yeah.

[25:08] And then when I was in the fifth grade,

[25:10] they had local auditions for the Wizard Oz.

[25:13] Auditioned for the Wizard of Oz was cast as a munchkin

[25:16] and the Lollipop Guild.

[25:17] Oh. And then kind of started my theater journey from there.

[25:20] Yeah. And then kind of when I was in the seventh

[25:24] and eighth grade, it was like made clear to me

[25:26] that like you had to choose theater or dance.

[25:29] You couldn't do both when you got to high school. Yeah.

[25:31] So I ended up going towards theater.

[25:34] And so I did theater sophomore through senior year I act,

[25:39] sorry, freshman year I was in one show.

[25:41] I was in Jack and the Beanstalk. I was a bean stalker. Oh.

[25:46] Oh, Nice. See you

[25:49] Guys had, you had schools that offered those programs.

[25:52] I know, I know. That's crazy. I hated

[25:53] you guys, but that's okay.

[25:55] That's my sophomore. We did not. But that's all so good.

[25:59] And that's one, one thing I really love

[26:01] about Kalamazoo. Yeah.

[26:02] We have so many maca opportunities here.

[26:04] Yes, yes. Go

[26:05] Ahead.

[26:06] So then my sophomore year they were doing Into the Woods

[26:09] and I did not wanna audition for some reason.

[26:12] Just decided I didn't wanna be on stage. Yes.

[26:15] And so I assistant directed the show.

[26:17] But you were still there. Yep. Still in the media.

[26:20] And so the director had me do a few scenes

[26:23] and so she ended up changing my title from assistant

[26:26] director to student director, which is really cool.

[26:28] And so I was able to kind of work my way up in

[26:31] that theater program and direct a few shows

[26:34] and choreograph a few shows and kind of too.

[26:37] Yeah. Kind of had that side as well.

[26:40] And then went to community college,

[26:42] did some theater in the Chicagoland area.

[26:44] Which, which groups? I did a show with the,

[26:48] or a few shows with Oaklawn Park District Theater.

[26:51] Okay. I did a show with,

[26:55] oh my god, what are they called?

[26:57] Is they center? No, Brightside Brightstar Theater. Okay.

[27:02] And then I did another one

[27:04] with Jed Laca Performing Arts Center in Cicero.

[27:07] Okay. And I was in Miss

[27:08] Saigon there. So that was really cool.

[27:09] Oh, why Now? It was my fav, one

[27:11] of my favorite experiences.

[27:12] I met a friend named Shauna there. Yes.

[27:15] And they were doing the production of Miss Saigon.

[27:19] She had been called in to come

[27:22] to a civic theater in South Bend to play the part of Kim.

[27:26] And so I went to go see her in the show

[27:28] and the guy I was dating at the time that we had kind

[27:31] of broken up, there was some like abuse going on

[27:35] and it was just, it was not a good situation.

[27:37] And, and so I ended up finding, like the director

[27:42] who directed the show, Ms.

[27:43] Lagon, that she was in, invited me to come

[27:46] and stay with them for a year to kind of get out

[27:49] of my situation and kind of spend time.

[27:50] Oh yeah. What? And so I was like,

[27:53] well like I would obviously

[27:54] pay you rent and stuff like that.

[27:55] And they're like, Nope, we want you to come down

[27:57] to South Bend and just be here

[28:00] and you can have a job and all that.

[28:02] And as long as you're taking care of stuff around the house

[28:06] and helping us out.

[28:07] Great whiz.

[28:08] What are these people? Right. That's what I'm saying.

[28:10] I know. But you know, they're really all around. They are.

[28:13] They really are. They really are good people.

[28:15] Gravity to those people. But

[28:17] Also like you would pay it forward.

[28:19] Oh, do you know what I'm saying? Like icy Topher.

[28:22] Yeah, exactly. Yes.

[28:23] Like this is exactly what you would do as well. Yeah,

[28:25] Indeed.

[28:26] That's your spirit now. Yeah,

[28:28] For sure.

[28:29] And so did some stuff at South or in South Bend area?

[28:32] I was in production of Chicago there at St. Mary's College.

[28:36] Oh yeah. Right. With

[28:38] and Notre Dame had,

[28:39] they had some male students from Notre Dame come over

[28:41] and do some show or do the show as well.

[28:43] And yeah. So got to know a lot of the Notre Dame and St.

[28:46] Mary's group and then did some stuff at their civic theater

[28:50] there, the South Bend Civic Theater

[28:52] and a few shows at Premier Arts.

[28:54] And then met my ex-husband now,

[28:58] but met, his name is Chucky and we are still friends.

[29:01] Good. And I worked for the travel agency

[29:03] that his family Okay.

[29:04] Owns. And so yeah, we started dating,

[29:09] I worked at a restaurant in the area.

[29:11] I worked at a AAA for Diamond Restaurant there as a server.

[29:15] Really loved my job

[29:17] and ended up getting married in 2020.

[29:21] We moved to South

[29:22] or we moved from South Bend

[29:24] to Kalamazoo in July of 2020. And

[29:26] What prompted that move?

[29:28] You know, the restaurant industry was really

[29:31] in not in a great spot.

[29:33] Yes. He was missing his family. Mm.

[29:36] I had become very close with the family

[29:38] and so we kind of just made the decision

[29:40] that it was best to move here.

[29:42] 'cause my job wasn't, it was gonna be,

[29:45] there was gonna be restaurant jobs,

[29:47] but it just wasn't something I wanted to do at that point,

[29:50] either with COVID going on.

[29:52] So yeah, it was weird. Yeah, it's interesting.

[29:54] And then that brought me here and then kind of auditioned

[29:58] for a show or we got married in December.

[30:00] Yeah. Of 2020. Yeah.

[30:03] And then we,

[30:05] or I auditioned for Mama Mia at the Kindle Burger Festival

[30:08] here in Kalamazoo and was cast in Mama Mia.

[30:11] And then met some people and led me to the Civic.

[30:15] Met some people at Kindle Burger.

[30:17] They were like, you've gotta come to the Civic.

[30:19] Yep. They sure did. Oh wow. Nice. Yeah.

[30:23] So I met my friend Carly Stoker

[30:25] and my friend Maggie used to be Pelo Cho.

[30:28] Now it's ow wi, I think I said it right this time.

[30:31] Sna ni. I knew I was close.

[30:35] You're welcome Maggie Ci. So Skin.

[30:38] Okay. So, yep. And they both were civic people.

[30:41] So we all auditioned for Newsies and we were all in Newsies.

[30:44] And that was my first show at the Civic.

[30:46] I've heard so much about that show.

[30:47] It was a great show. It Was Beau, it was so fun. Yeah,

[30:50] Well the Civic is

[30:53] amazing. It's

[30:55] Just, we are so lucky. So

[30:57] Lucky.

[30:58] It's family. I mean, it's my family, you know,

[31:01] touching about, it's your family again

[31:03] and ex you become family, you know?

[31:06] So yeah. Yes.

[31:09] So tell me about

[31:14] your experiences, some of your best, worst moments

[31:20] at this place we love called the Civic

[31:23] Theater of Kalamazoo.

[31:25] No, you said that there was a civic theater someplace else.

[31:28] South Bend Civic Theater.

[31:29] South South. South Bend, civic.

[31:31] So is the Civic like part of a A group?

[31:36] So this is what I like to think of it as. Okay.

[31:38] Community theater is the thing. Okay.

[31:41] And then I feel like there's Civic theater.

[31:42] Community theater is very much your Mon Pop. Yes, yes.

[31:47] Everyone volunteers. Your civic theater has like a staff.

[31:50] Okay. And established staff.

[31:52] And then they have volunteers that do the shows

[31:55] and help around with hair and makeup and costumes

[31:59] and scenery and stuff like that.

[32:01] And I feel like they're very,

[32:02] they're two very different entities

[32:04] where we have a few community theaters in Kalamazoo

[32:07] and then we have the Civic theater.

[32:09] Yes, yes. And then you have the Farmer's Alley

[32:12] And then you have your Equity, which is equity.

[32:14] Yes. Yes. The Civic.

[32:17] I did not even know about the Civic

[32:19] before I came to Chicago, you know,

[32:22] and I'm in Chicago, so I know about Stephan Wolf

[32:25] and I know about the Goodman, then I know about lots

[32:27] of other smaller theaters.

[32:29] And those are basically on the north side.

[32:32] I lived on the south side,

[32:33] I had my own little performing arts group.

[32:36] We didn't do professional theater,

[32:38] but we, I still train them as actors and dancers.

[32:42] But coming here to Kalamazoo

[32:45] and then getting involved

[32:47] with the Civic was a total experience.

[32:52] A total experience.

[32:54] And what was it like for you

[32:58] when you first came to the Civic?

[33:02] I mean, I was bit by the bug.

[33:03] I, I had taken time off to get married, have babies.

[33:08] I invented a beauty tool.

[33:10] So I had all these like things, you know, that led up to it.

[33:14] And then Oakley actually auditioned.

[33:16] Were you doing hair here?

[33:18] I was doing it on the side. Okay.

[33:20] So salon wise it was just in Florida.

[33:22] And then I've done like hair and makeup. All different. Yes.

[33:25] So yes. But just not at a salon here. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

[33:28] Yeah. But I definitely did it.

[33:30] Like all my clients, they would come to my house,

[33:32] I'd go to theirs, you know. How did you get your

[33:34] Reputation here?

[33:36] I think, 'cause again, I'm just a talker

[33:38] and usually word of mouth.

[33:40] And then they're like, you do hair

[33:41] well, duh, duh dah, you know?

[33:43] So then I started going around

[33:45] and highlighting colors my specialty.

[33:49] But Oakley auditioned for Newsies.

[33:53] She's like, mom, can you teach show? I know.

[33:55] She's like, can you teach me how to tap dance in an hour?

[33:58] And I'm like, ha, no, I tried. But that was it.

[34:03] And then I didn't get that one.

[34:05] She then went to audition for Polka Dots.

[34:07] Were you here for that? No. What year was Polka Dots?

[34:10] Like three years ago, right? Yeah, it was three years ago.

[34:13] And I got called in.

[34:15] 'cause my reputation as a cosmetologist. Yeah.

[34:18] And they're like, can you please help us with wigs?

[34:20] We have 30 wigs that need to be cut and styled.

[34:23] It was Tuesday of tech wig.

[34:25] And so that is how I 30 wigs. 30.

[34:30] 30 blue wigs.

[34:31] One wait, 29 blue wigs, one purple wig, right? Yep.

[34:34] Because it's the Ruby Bridges story. Okay.

[34:37] And so there's one girl that is a

[34:42] Polka dot.

[34:43] That's a dot. And then the rest are squares. Okay.

[34:45] So, So it's about race, but it is

[34:48] Nuts.

[34:49] At the same time, color and shape was used. And Yes. So Oak,

[34:53] The drinking fountain is very

[34:55] Prevalent in the story.

[34:56] Yes, it is. Yeah. It was such a cute

[34:58] in the parish. Very interesting.

[35:00] Oh my God, That was great.

[35:01] So Oakley and then that was it.

[35:03] And then I decided to do like audition for Hunchback and,

[35:07] and I did not get cast, but that's okay.

[35:10] Actually, Mike Artis, who was directing the show, talked

[35:14] to Anthony and said, she's a great dancer.

[35:17] I think she might be a good choreographer.

[35:18] And then that's how

[35:20] I ended up on the choreographer

[35:22] side of things. And And what

[35:23] Did you choreograph?

[35:24] So my first show was Forever Plaid.

[35:26] The Carver. Okay. Okay. It

[35:28] Was And Cody was In that Cody, yes.

[35:30] Cody was in that. And so was Matt. So was Matt. So was Matt.

[35:33] Oh my. And one of the best experience,

[35:38] literally to this day.

[35:40] The whole entire company. Everybody. Yeah. It was magical.

[35:44] Awesome. It was magical.

[35:45] Awesome. How did you come to the Civic?

[35:48] So I was in Newsies and kind of got by that theater bug

[35:52] and really loved the group.

[35:55] And then they were hiring for a box office associate.

[36:01] And so I applied for that job

[36:02] and got that in the February of, oh God, what year was that?

[36:06] 2024. 2024. Just

[36:08] 2024.

[36:09] No, no, it had to be 2020.

[36:11] 2023. Yeah, 2023. Yeah.

[36:14] Was when Hunchback was, it was May of 2023. Okay. Now, yeah.

[36:18] Yeah. It took me a second. Wow.

[36:19] And so I was working in the box office

[36:21] and then in January of 2024, the job came available

[36:26] for the audience engagement manager.

[36:29] And so that's what my job is now.

[36:30] So I went from the box office to that.

[36:33] Nice. And kind of have been there since. Yeah.

[36:35] And you're still doing shows.

[36:37] And I'm still doing shows. That is wonderful.

[36:39] I tried to do at least one a season this year.

[36:41] Hopefully two. We'll see the producers, he auditioned. Yeah.

[36:44] The producers auditions happen. So we shall see. Yep. Yeah.

[36:48] And you auditioned. I did audition. Yep.

[36:51] So we will see. Yeah. There's supposed

[36:52] to be a callback list sometime today. So

[36:55] It's probably today. It

[36:56] Probably is. It probably is. But

[36:58] You got the callback.

[36:59] You got It. We hope. We hope. We hope.

[37:01] Look at that face. Did you audition?

[37:04] I did not because I held true.

[37:06] I said I was gonna take time off member after Annie. Yes.

[37:09] And you went four shows in a three shows in a row.

[37:11] Yeah. I mean I, you know,

[37:13] and then when you do an opener,

[37:14] you start in the summer, you know, for Kama.

[37:17] And, but I have held through and I've taken my time off

[37:22] and I'll be ready to get back into it in May. Good, good.

[37:25] Yeah. Now I could talk about the Civic forever. Yes.

[37:28] But, and I will get back to the Civic. Yes. No, no, no.

[37:31] I'm gonna talk about the Civic a little bit.

[37:32] What do you really love about this Civic?

[37:35] I know my experience with the Civic is,

[37:36] has been really, really good.

[37:38] For one thing, I get to meet great people like you guys.

[37:41] And every time I'm in a show, I meet more people

[37:45] for more relationships and,

[37:47] and it's always just expanding my world, I think.

[37:52] And I get the opportunity at my age to get back on stage.

[37:57] Yes. To do something that I really, really love.

[38:00] That I feel like I'm connecting with the audience and,

[38:02] and that energy exchange on the stage,

[38:06] there's just nothing like it.

[38:07] I'm messing up, Christopher's looking

[38:09] at me like, what are you doing?

[38:10] What happen? That is not the step.

[38:13] I'm like, oh, you're right. Want me get back on here.

[38:15] We're tripping upstairs with packages.

[38:19] Can't turn on the line. Cancer.

[38:21] Yeah. I can't find the bug.

[38:23] Nobody knows. But at least I hope nobody knows.

[38:27] When did you really fall in love?

[38:30] When I was doing Newsies, I fell in love

[38:32] and then kind of was volunteering and helping usher shows.

[38:35] And it's a great way to get meet new volunteers as well.

[38:39] 'cause you'll see people that don't necessarily do things on

[38:42] stage, but they'll usher every show.

[38:43] So yeah. Got to meet those people.

[38:46] And then kind of just kept chugging along

[38:49] and really loved it since

[38:51] even working there, I still love it.

[38:54] Are there days where I'm like, every job?

[38:57] Yes, of course, of course. Yeah. Every, every place. Yeah.

[38:59] But it's nice to have a creative space as well,

[39:02] where you get to do what you love

[39:03] and then also have people that are also like-minded

[39:06] and love what they're doing as well.

[39:09] Katie, I mean, I just wanted to get on that stage.

[39:14] I do like behind the, the scenes. Yeah. Yeah.

[39:16] Which is very important.

[39:18] So the first show I actually made was Big Fish.

[39:22] The season opener for 20, 24. 23, 3. I don't even,

[39:26] Because it was after Hunchback.

[39:27] I mean, yeah. And,

[39:29] and once you're on that stage, you know, you know,

[39:32] and it just like, Ugh,

[39:35] I wanna do it again and again and again.

[39:36] Oh yeah. Yeah. And it just is the relationships you formed.

[39:39] Yeah. They're family.

[39:41] You know, I would say like one

[39:43] of my closest friends is Sarah Aiello.

[39:44] And I met her on Big Fish, one of our icebreakers.

[39:48] It was our first rehearsal.

[39:50] We had to sit back to back with someone we didn't know.

[39:52] Yeah. This was Shannon Hill, who was our director, did this.

[39:56] So it was Aiello and I who sat back to back.

[39:58] Isn't that funny? So when I look back at that, yeah.

[40:01] We didn't know each other. Yeah. We knew of

[40:03] 'cause you just kind of do in the community.

[40:05] Yeah. And to be now

[40:08] and just how much we progressed or develop.

[40:11] And then you and I, we would always say hi to each other.

[40:13] Yeah. Yeah. But to be in a show with you

[40:15] In a show, there's nothing like

[40:16] It.

[40:17] There was nothing like, it was just always magical.

[40:19] But it was like that much more, you know?

[40:21] And then, I mean, Topher is family.

[40:24] He is part of our family.

[40:25] How far you've been calling him? I've heard you. I know.

[40:27] Wait, wait a minute. We, we would be backstage

[40:31] and you say Topher, I'm like,

[40:32] Who is to, who is it?

[40:34] Who is this? Topher. I know.

[40:35] And I finally got it tonight.

[40:37] Yeah. Just now, Right Christopher? Yes. Yes. Topher.

[40:41] Well that's so cute. Well, and

[40:43] I think, does anybody else call you that?

[40:45] Well now people have, but I know it it,

[40:48] people always ask me, do you want,

[40:49] what do you prefer to go by?

[40:51] Like, Chris, Christopher, what do you like?

[40:52] And I said, I don't really care.

[40:54] And then I was telling a story one night at dinner

[40:56] that I had a teacher, 'cause my mom was very particular

[40:59] that I had to be Christopher and everything.

[41:01] And so I had a teacher her,

[41:03] she could never remember to say Christopher.

[41:05] She'd always call me Chris. So she

[41:06] ended up calling me Topher.

[41:08] Oh, I see. So that's, that's what ended up like ended up.

[41:11] Yeah. Yeah. Because I used

[41:12] to call Christopher in high school, Topher.

[41:15] Oh. And that's the first time I had heard

[41:16] it when he told me.

[41:18] And I said, wait a minute. And so it's been to another

[41:21] One of those moments.

[41:22] But we were in Cinderella together

[41:25] where we had a Prince Topher.

[41:26] So that was funny. That was real fun.

[41:28] When they're like, which Topher?

[41:29] And I'm like, obviously this one I would call Peter. Peter.

[41:32] Yes.

[41:34] So when did you guys really connect?

[41:37] We met through Wendy. We did Wendy Wheeler

[41:39] During, what was that? Big fish.

[41:42] Oh, it was Big fish. Well, well like we met, we met

[41:44] Before that.

[41:45] But like, yeah, it was during Big Fish

[41:46] And it was instantaneous.

[41:47] Yeah, for sure. I mean it was just right away.

[41:50] And I mean, I can't imagine life without you. That's crazy.

[41:53] That's crazy to even think that there was a time. Yeah.

[41:55] I mean he is, he's part, like I said, part of our family.

[41:57] He came to spend the holidays with us.

[42:00] My in-laws, which is actually funny story. Oh lord. I know.

[42:04] So he came to Jake's graduation this last May.

[42:07] And my in-laws were there.

[42:09] John and Susan And John taught at Wheaton.

[42:13] Well, Topher went to

[42:15] Wheaton. He was the gym teacher.

[42:16] So we're talking about No, no, I

[42:18] Know this is Okay. And Downers.

[42:19] Yeah. They live in Downers.

[42:21] Grove Shields. Yeah.

[42:22] So there's And and Topher goes, wait,

[42:24] I was there the time you were a PE teacher.

[42:27] Like they literally, did you have him as a PE teacher?

[42:30] I can't remember. I don't know for sure. Okay.

[42:31] I can't remember. It was a long time ago.

[42:33] He PE would've been middle. Yeah.

[42:34] It would've been his middle school years. Wheaton.

[42:37] And now my nephew goes to Wheaton.

[42:41] Like went to Wheaton. Yeah. No, yeah, he does. Yeah.

[42:43] Wheaton. I mean everything is like I know.

[42:47] That's why I say like, you know, as much as you

[42:50] wanna create your own path, things are laid out for you.

[42:53] Things are there.

[42:55] We were talking before the show started about

[42:58] there are are the dimensions.

[43:00] I believe now those are, you don't have to believe it.

[43:03] I'm not pushing anything on anyone.

[43:04] But I so believe that there are dimensions beyond

[43:08] our understanding that exists.

[43:12] Science might know about it, might not know about it.

[43:15] They say we have five senses.

[43:17] I believe we have several additional senses.

[43:20] And you were telling me about one story. Yeah.

[43:23] When you were in a car accident.

[43:24] Can you just say that again because Yes.

[43:25] I really want people to think outside the box.

[43:27] Christopher, have you had some experiences like this?

[43:29] Please share a couple of doors.

[43:31] Yeah. Yeah. I mean I was 16, my birthday's January 15th.

[43:35] And so I'm always, you know,

[43:37] I went right into a blizzard when I drove

[43:39] and I remember us coming back from

[43:41] a guy's playoff soccer game for our high school.

[43:44] A friend was following me home.

[43:45] I went to turn left and got into a head on collision.

[43:48] And my friend wasn't in my car, she was behind me

[43:51] as my friend because there were no cell phones at this time.

[43:54] Early nineties. My friend went to go use a house phone

[43:58] to call my parents.

[44:01] There was a gentleman with a yellow shirt on

[44:03] who was keeping me calm

[44:04] and saying everything's gonna be okay.

[44:06] And really just instead of the freak out and go into shock,

[44:10] 'cause I broke, you know, a couple bones.

[44:13] He kept me calm until my parents,

[44:15] who luckily were just down the street.

[44:17] So we were almost home. And then I was telling my friend,

[44:20] thank God for that guy in the yellow shirt, you know?

[44:22] And she goes, what guy in the yellow shirt?

[44:24] There was no guy in the yellow shirt.

[44:26] And it's like, you know, it's like that dream

[44:28] how you can kind of Yeah, I can still picture him.

[44:30] Yeah. Yeah. But I can't picture a face. Oh,

[44:34] And energy came to you and I believe an angel

[44:37] Came to you.

[44:38] I do too. I do too.

[44:39] It was an angel that was there right on the spot giving

[44:42] you exactly what

[44:44] You needed.

[44:45] Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

[44:47] Oh, and then there was something when you were in

[44:50] Yeah, so then of course I, yeah.

[44:52] Oh, Savannah. No, no, no. Go go with that one.

[44:54] I was just gonna finish this one. So then I obviously had

[44:56] to go, I actually got taken by ambulance to the hospital.

[44:59] Yes. And I was getting X-rays

[45:01] and they were like, Cynthia, you have to stay straight.

[45:03] And I'm like, you know, obviously car accident shock.

[45:05] And I'm like, wait, my name's not Cynthia.

[45:07] Come to find out the lady that I hit. Her name is Cynthia.

[45:10] So it just like, again, with all the alignment with that.

[45:14] And you know, honestly I was,

[45:17] I was raised believing in spirituality.

[45:19] You know, I, if you're Lutheran, if you're, no matter

[45:21] what religion, you know, you kind of take that spirituality.

[45:24] So I do believe in like the angel that was there

[45:27] and spirits and that.

[45:29] Yes. That leads me to Savannah.

[45:31] I have, I have a picture of a full body apparition

[45:34] happened in one of the squares.

[45:37] Over 200 bodies were buried.

[45:38] We actually found that out the next day.

[45:40] We did a segue tour. So we told the guy,

[45:42] and we showed him the picture of the ghosts

[45:43] that I showed you, which was a full body apparition

[45:46] of a soldier.

[45:48] Yes. The guy confirmed. Oh yeah. That lines right up.

[45:51] And then we looked at the uniform,

[45:52] everything lined up with it.

[45:54] And so the energy is in that type of town where there's

[45:56] so much tragedy and so much energy. Yeah,

[45:59] So much energy.

[46:00] The energy does not die. Yeah.

[46:03] So when people talk about death, I'm like,

[46:05] ah, it's a transition.

[46:07] Yeah, it's transition. Because energies do not die.

[46:10] Isn't that what the Einstein said?

[46:12] It's energy cannot be born, does not die,

[46:15] it just changes form.

[46:16] Right, right. Oh, I was in, I was in Africa

[46:19] and we went to the, I was in Ghana, we went down

[46:22] to Cape Coast and where the slaves were held

[46:25] until they were taken on the put on the boat.

[46:27] And we were standing in,

[46:30] in the ladies holding the women's holding cell.

[46:33] And the energies were so strong in there, I could feel them

[46:39] trying to communicate.

[46:40] And I just started crying and it was like,

[46:42] Have to get, it became visceral. It was,

[46:44] Yeah.

[46:45] It was. Oh my gosh. It was something. But what's your story,

[46:50] Christopher?

[46:51] So my ex-husband

[46:52] and I, he, his really good friend Sarah, when we moved

[46:57] to Kalamazoo, we, it was great to be with her.

[47:00] She had been diagnosed with cancer,

[47:02] breast cancer stage three at the time.

[47:05] She ended up like beating it and then it came back.

[47:10] So in 2022 in March,

[47:14] her mom had passed away and she asked Chucky

[47:18] and I, I, if we would be interested in living with her.

[47:21] She was, she was lonely and wanted some people there.

[47:24] And just also, I think it was good for us.

[47:27] We were living with his parents still.

[47:29] And it was probably, we had been there a little too long in

[47:31] my opinion, at that point it was time to move out.

[47:34] So we lived with her and she ended up getting cancer again.

[47:38] So we were there to take care

[47:39] of her and she became very Right.

[47:41] We, we became very close as well.

[47:43] And when she passed away, she did leave us her house.

[47:47] And so there would be times when I was in the house

[47:51] that I could smell her hairspray by the front door

[47:55] where she would be, the cats would go there all the time.

[47:58] So I knew she was there. Yes.

[47:59] And then I, there are times now where she,

[48:02] where I'll be at the Civic

[48:03] and in places where like I've been with her

[48:07] and like I just kind

[48:09] of just know she's there in some way or another.

[48:12] It's weird. Yeah, I know. Yeah.

[48:13] It's really, really, it's really bizarre. Yeah.

[48:16] But she's always kind of still around and Yeah,

[48:19] She's with you.

[48:21] She's with you comforting and cheering you on

[48:25] and letting you know everything is all right. So

[48:28] Yeah, when you were sharing

[48:29] that story about just like walking down

[48:33] to the, like the where the slaves were brought in

[48:37] to the ships when I was in New York

[48:40] with my friend Anastasia in May of last year.

[48:44] She and I, when we crossed the,

[48:48] the right before where Oh my gosh.

[48:51] The twin Towers would've been Yeah. Oh my gosh.

[48:54] Like we just both started crying

[48:56] and just like, you could just feel that heaviness around it.

[48:58] It was just Oh, kind of crazy. Yeah.

[49:01] To think that there were so many people that were there

[49:04] and now are no longer.

[49:06] Yeah. And two giant towers that are just no longer there and

[49:10] Attached to that Yeah.

[49:12] Area. That's, yeah.

[49:15] Was there ever a per,

[49:20] how do I say this there, there needs to be,

[49:24] well not there needs to be,

[49:26] but can you see

[49:31] a healing, a ceremony of some type

[49:37] to release the spirits?

[49:39] Yeah. To say it's okay.

[49:45] I know when my brother passed, I had him,

[49:47] he was in hospice at my house until he passed.

[49:51] And sometimes he would be in such pain

[49:55] that he would just scream and I would just release.

[49:58] I just wish he could just relax. God just let go.

[50:03] And finally he did. And it was so beautiful.

[50:08] All of the family had come up.

[50:10] My son from, from southern Illinois, my nephews, his, his,

[50:15] the, the woman that he really loved, he had his son by

[50:19] and he was there, my son was there

[50:21] and all of the family was just around him.

[50:25] And, and he, you could tell by the look on his face

[50:28] that he had his peace, he had come,

[50:31] Had come. Yeah,

[50:32] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[50:33] And his soul was ready

[50:34] and that night he made his transition.

[50:37] Yeah, yeah, yeah,

[50:39] Yeah.

[50:40] That peace. And I think like that's something

[50:42] I know when my grand, I was very close with my grandma

[50:45] and grandpa o Brian, my dad's parents

[50:49] and my grandma.

[50:50] My grandpa passed first

[50:52] and my grandma had Alzheimer's really bad.

[50:55] But I came back, I was living in Florida

[50:57] and I was doing her hair and makeup for the funeral.

[50:59] And she became lucid.

[51:02] She looked at me and all

[51:03] of a sudden like knew why I was doing her hair

[51:05] and her makeup and everything, and gave me a look

[51:08] and, and had sadness.

[51:10] And it was that one second our

[51:11] eyes met in the mirror, right.

[51:12] 'cause I'm standing. Yeah.

[51:14] And, and then just like that she was gone again.

[51:16] And a jovial child.

[51:18] She was a very happy person with Alzheimer's.

[51:20] But it was like that, it was like that touch

[51:24] of reality right there.

[51:25] And when my grandfather was passing away, he said,

[51:29] tell Katie not to worry about things.

[51:32] It will be okay. And at the time I was living in Florida,

[51:34] I had, you know, some things like young twenties as you do.

[51:38] And that just message, just as he was passing away to know

[51:41] that and, and that little Remi like just even talking about

[51:44] it right now, it's been so long since I thought about that,

[51:46] you know, but the comfort, yes.

[51:48] That brings the eye contact I got with my grandma.

[51:51] That was lucid at that point.

[51:53] That's the stuff I think you just, you take with you

[51:56] and you have to remind yourself. Yeah.

[51:58] Connection. Connection.

[52:00] We were talking about connections

[52:03] and you guys were talking about, we have a few minutes left,

[52:05] but I want to get to the importance

[52:08] of human connection.

[52:11] Our children are losing that

[52:14] with probably not your children. Oh they are.

[52:17] They're in there with cell

[52:18] Phones online.

[52:23] The human connection.

[52:25] You might have some, but it's just not as important.

[52:28] You guys were just connecting in New York,

[52:35] That boy did we connect. I can see

[52:38] That there were memories.

[52:40] You guys just looked at each other

[52:41] and I saw mom is just flashing between you.

[52:44] I mean, what Was that like?

[52:46] I think when you're, especially this age

[52:49] and you're middle aged, not you yet,

[52:51] but you hang out with the Middle Ages

[52:53] and you can find a core group that you're able

[52:56] to leave town with.

[52:58] You know, it's one thing going to dinners

[52:59] and doing things here, but be with someone four to five days

[53:04] and still belly laugh on the last day as you're flying home.

[53:09] That is something that you need to cherish.

[53:10] And those are the friendships that you invest in.

[53:13] And when I say like New York also,

[53:16] we have our very own travel agent.

[53:18] I mean we're like, Topher, we're going to New York.

[53:20] And he is like, okay, big B,

[53:22] he had everything like planned out, done and done.

[53:26] We have to show up. He booked our shows.

[53:28] He's, he's wonderful. I mean that's why we break.

[53:30] No, I'm just kidding. But, but I mean, it just is,

[53:35] and again, it's like a family thing, you know, without

[53:38] the trauma of the family, without the drama.

[53:40] Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

[53:42] Yeah.

[53:43] Wonderful. We went to see, I saw nine shows when

[53:46] We were there.

[53:47] Nine shows How many days?

[53:48] How many days? We were there for four or five nights.

[53:51] Thursday ending up

[53:52] through Tuesday because we had to. Yeah,

[53:54] We were were there during Snowmageddon. Oh

[53:56] Boy. Yeah. That was fun.

[53:57] Or the storm of the century. Storm

[53:59] Of the century.

[54:00] We saw rag time when we were there.

[54:02] We saw, which was phenomenal.

[54:04] And then we did see the Phantoms masquerade.

[54:07] And if you have not heard of this,

[54:09] it is an immersive phantom

[54:11] and it is the most incredible thing I've ever seen.

[54:13] Oh my God. So much so We went again. We saw it twice

[54:16] The most in incredible.

[54:19] I gotta go to New York. Here's the thing.

[54:21] Tell every single everything.

[54:23] Yeah, but have, I mean, when you, here's the thing

[54:25] with immersion theater,

[54:26] because we're on stage, we get immersed.

[54:28] So, so we've, we've done a

[54:29] show, we've done costume, you know.

[54:30] Yeah. Being on stage. But when you go watch a

[54:33] show and you watch it, you're great.

[54:34] This brought you into the show. You were part of the show.

[54:39] In fact, they would hand you props.

[54:41] They would hand you held onto Christine's dress.

[54:44] At one point, Ashley, our friend, got taken

[54:47] to the other room, into the phantom's bedroom

[54:50] and seated next to his bed.

[54:52] Like it was so intimate. You're wearing masks. Oh my gosh.

[54:55] Yeah. And you're looking around

[54:57] And there's a dress code. So

[54:58] Like there's a dress code.

[54:59] Yeah. I, if you get the opportunity,

[55:01] I'm gonna tell everybody, if you have the

[55:02] opportunity, go see it.

[55:04] Okay. Roddy. Yeah. My God. That was, yeah. It was amazing.

[55:07] And then Hades Town. That

[55:09] Was very good.

[55:10] I saw Hades Town here,

[55:11] but I can imagine. I can only imagine.

[55:13] I mean, there's no per, oh my God. Let's see.

[55:18] Yeah, that's what I, who said Persephone again?

[55:20] I'm telling Marvinetta.

[55:21] Oh, she'd be phenomenal.

[55:22] Oh, she'd be a phenomenal vicious Hermes as well.

[55:25] Oh my gosh. Let's, Anthony,

[55:27] let's do Hades tone. Oh my God. Don't

[55:29] Tell Anthony.

[55:30] Anthony.

[55:31] Okay. Stop. Marvinetta. I'm gonna be

[55:35] Horrible because Haiti, when I saw Hayestown here,

[55:38] just the traveling show. I was like,

[55:40] That, that music, oh, that's that store.

[55:44] I cleaned the house to that music.

[55:45] When the chant comes on, I'm like, okay, let's go. You know?

[55:49] I, I mean, it is beautiful.

[55:50] So, yeah, you got so that in New York we did.

[55:53] Well, there's a story. Okay. What a surprise. Yes.

[55:56] So we realized that we had to cancel our flight.

[55:59] 'cause Delta was basically like, this is Saturday.

[56:02] This storm is coming

[56:03] Sunday, all flights are gonna be canceled.

[56:04] So we decided to cancel our hotel, had our same rooms.

[56:07] It was, it worked out again, you know,

[56:09] just Synchron. We'll take it

[56:11] Ity. That's right.

[56:13] So toasts like, okay. Should we book another show?

[56:16] I hadn't seen Book A Mormon

[56:17] and Ashley hasn't seen Book A Mormon.

[56:19] Yep. Amy. And you did. Yep.

[56:21] And we got Book A Mormon tickets. So we go, we show up.

[56:24] There's a line like, this is weird.

[56:27] 20 minutes before the curtain, we're like,

[56:28] this is weird. Show

[56:30] Canceled minutes.

[56:31] Because all these shows are canceling, show canceled.

[56:33] We look, here's another serendipitous. Yeah.

[56:35] We look across the street.

[56:36] There's Haiti Town, Haiti's Town Theater.

[56:39] I had literally just said to Amy the night

[56:41] before, I wish you could, it's such an experience.

[56:45] I looked, now Boca Mormon starts at two Hades Town,

[56:49] which had available tickets started at three.

[56:52] So it's like, we ended up going to Hades Town,

[56:56] the most amazing experience.

[56:58] Get outta Haes, Hades town.

[56:59] Topher bought us and Juliet tickets for Christmas.

[57:03] And Juliet gets canceled.

[57:05] I was so sad. So

[57:06] I said, what are the chances

[57:08] that they would mark down the phantom tickets?

[57:10] 'cause it's a steeper one. Yeah.

[57:12] So I go on, they were marked down a tad.

[57:13] Yeah, they were the

[57:14] Christmas and I, and they were still having shows.

[57:15] Everything else is canceled. Everything is canceled.

[57:18] I said, let's you think we can do it now.

[57:20] We had to run back, change into our either black, silver

[57:23] or white, put our masks on.

[57:25] We went a second time,

[57:26] but it was just like one

[57:27] of those moments when something closes, another

[57:30] Door opens. Let's go.

[57:31] Oh, let let, Yeah. Oh, wait, okay.

[57:34] I have, I have less than three minutes.

[57:35] I know what is on the horizon.

[57:41] You can't talk about it. No, no, no, no, no.

[57:43] Not for this today. Oh, for you personally.

[57:46] What is on your horizon? What's your moonshot?

[57:50] Hmm. More travel.

[57:55] Done and done. Where you wanna go?

[57:57] What's, what's your dream location?

[57:59] Oh, I would love to see Japan.

[58:02] I'd also like to go to Vietnam.

[58:04] Mm Yeah. To see Vietnam. Yes.

[58:09] Yeah. Nice, Nice. Egypt as well. But it's not safe.

[58:12] But I would love to go to Egypt as well.

[58:16] Things are changing. This is true.

[58:18] Things are changing. This is true.

[58:20] So, cool, cool, cool.

[58:22] And do you see yourself still being at the Civic?

[58:24] Maybe being the Ed one day

[58:26] Executive director would be very cool.

[58:28] I actually would like to be the artistic director

[58:31] If I Being honest.

[58:34] But Anthony's not going anywhere,

[58:36] so I gotta wait a little bit.

[58:37] No kidding. You'll never know.

[58:39] He'll be back on Broadway in Sunday. He'll,

[58:42] He'll be on Broadway when He'll be

[58:44] directing on Broadway soon.

[58:46] Yeah. Oh boy. Moonshot speed.

[58:49] Army. Travel, travel. Travel.

[58:51] I'm actually, I have a great trip coming up.

[58:54] I'm going to Marrakesh with two of my besties.

[58:57] One of my besties is turning 50.

[58:59] And this is what she wanted to do. Yeah.

[59:01] So we're gonna go to Marrakesh.

[59:03] We're gonna do spend one night in Paris, fly to Marakesh,

[59:06] and then tag back in Paris and fly home.

[59:08] So I'm excited for that one.

[59:09] And then Topher, Oakley

[59:12] and I have a big trip coming up in July.

[59:15] So we're gonna fly to London first.

[59:17] Stay about five days in London.

[59:19] Go see some Joe's. Go see. Oh yes. Paddington.

[59:23] I mean, I'll see just for you. Well, you're gonna he, yeah.

[59:25] No, nothing like theater in London.

[59:27] Oh, west End and the west Side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And

[59:29] The tickets are cheaper.

[59:30] America. We got some issues.

[59:32] Yeah. The houses are really nice. They are small into get

[59:36] The AC pumping.

[59:37] No, but, and then we are,

[59:40] and then we're gonna do Disneyland.

[59:42] Paris and Paris. We're gonna do Bastille Day in Paris.

[59:45] So my best friend was born in France.

[59:47] She's the one that lives in Miami. Yeah.

[59:49] I have a couple of best friends. You know everyone. Yeah.

[59:51] But she will be in Paris the same time we're there too.

[59:53] So it's just like, yeah. Again, we're staying in

[59:56] A part of a castle or something.

[59:59] It's like insane. Yeah. Like it's just gonna

[1:00:01] Be Love it, love it, love it.

[1:00:03] Yeah. I have to have a conversation with you after.

[1:00:04] 'cause I'm traveling a lot. And so yes.

[1:00:08] This has been an incredible show.

[1:00:12] I enjoyed every minute of hearing your stories.

[1:00:17] Thank you so much for just opening,

[1:00:22] being authentic, sharing,

[1:00:25] going there wherever I wanted to go.

[1:00:28] Having fun.

[1:00:29] Reminding me of the magic, not only

[1:00:31] of theater, but the magic.

[1:00:33] The magic of life being present in the moment, being open

[1:00:38] to whatever.

[1:00:40] And just, I like being a blank sheet of paper

[1:00:43] and just letting the experience fill it up.

[1:00:45] Yes. Thank you for being who you are,

[1:00:48] and thank you for tuning in.

[1:00:51] Remember, get to know somebody's story and share your story.

[1:00:56] The good, the bad there is no bad. It's all good.

[1:01:00] Till next time, all stories matter. Bye-bye.

[1:01:07] Programming on public media network is made possible

[1:01:10] thanks to our community partners, including the city

[1:01:13] of Kalamazoo, city of Parchment, Comstock Township,

[1:01:17] Kalamazoo Township, and Omo Township.

All Stories Matter - Katey and Chris, why we love performing, the Civic, and life!

Agenda

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