[0:14] over

[0:17] here okay so I think we can get started with the training if that's okay it's 7

[0:23] so what we're going to do is um there's a lot of resources on The Duchess County

[0:28] Planning Federation and there's a few good ones that we thought we might be

[0:31] able to utilize they're longer they're like an hour an hour and a half so we'll

[0:35] just do segments of it like do first segment now and then the first the rest

[0:39] of it um at the next meeting but this one is on Housing Development Finance

[0:43] 101 it was done by Doug alott um who works for CPC so he's financing a lot of

[0:49] the projects kind of in the Hudson Valley why we thought this was important

[0:53] for the board is I think when we're talking about design choices and we're

[0:56] talking about um aspects that could be added to planning board projects I think

[1:01] something we often heard is that's not financially feasible or you know I think

[1:05] we hear that a lot especially now in the current Construction in the financing

[1:10] Climate about how expensive these projects are and why are certain things

[1:15] can be added or cannot so I think in order to have more fruitful

[1:18] conversations with with applicants when we're talking about that that we thought

[1:22] this Finance course might be helpful I haven't seen this one yet but I heard

[1:26] good things about this and Doug alott actually did a he did came and did a

[1:31] training for the um for the city council of last year kind of on the same topic

[1:36] so that's we'll just do we'll run this until 7:30 is when the trainings go

[1:42] right and then and then we'll get into the

[1:45] meeting and I'm pleased to welcome our speaker Doug Al with CPC the community

[1:50] preservation Corporation Doug has worked in a variety of roles with CBC for over

[1:55] 25 years and he's currently the senior vice president and director of Lending

[2:00] the valley office he oversees the lending process from origination through

[2:04] writing construction supervision and conversion to permanent finan and i'

[2:09] just like to add that one of the reasons we wanted to host this class is that at

[2:12] County Planning we understand that when you're on a local planning board and

[2:17] post project you're not on board you he about something in your community it can

[2:22] difficult to

[2:28] understand so while every project is different there's a balancing act

[2:32] between what penciled out with the bank and what doesn't and so I expect next

[2:36] presentation will provide us all more concrete understanding of the

[2:40] complexities of Housing Development and financing so with that I

[2:46] will over to thank you um good evening everybody

[2:53] um pleasure to be here um one thing that have didn't mention is aside from my

[2:58] role here at CBC um I've also been member of the quot sing board of appeals

[3:06] where I live in build H down in Westchester County for 16 years so I'm

[3:11] familiar with these continued education courses and participated in that level

[3:18] so I guess where said I'm one of you um I wanted to give you first a little

[3:24] background about CPC um we were established in 197 four

[3:30] we are a not for-profit uh lending institution which is kind of a weird um

[3:37] model but we we uh we have a we have a Consortium of about 15 banks that offer

[3:42] us lines of credit to do construction BS well it's one line of credit we loar it

[3:48] out on their line and uh and then we also have a number of um uh permanent

[3:55] loan products for when the project gets uh completed and leased and is is you

[4:00] know mostly what we do is rental housing we do do some home ownership housing but

[4:05] we also do the 30-year um permanent mortgage on on Project after it's

[4:11] completed and um you know we believe that you know housing is really Central

[4:17] to transforming neighborhoods into thriving communities um we try to

[4:24] collaborate with municipalities with not for-profits with private Developers

[4:30] Church organizations all with the goal of of you know trying to make our

[4:35] community better provide both uh both market rate and affordable housing um

[4:43] because we realize that there's different segments

[4:46] within um in terms of affordability um and our our goal is is

[4:53] really broader Community revitalization um goals for for the community to work

[4:59] so that's a little background us um and you know we since 1974 we've invested

[5:06] over 14 billion dollar almost all that been in New York state we have Regional

[5:11] Offices throughout the state as hether mentioned I'm the director H office for

[5:16] 28 years um and then there's sort of the

[5:20] other benefits that go into the Investments we've done finan that over

[5:25] $225,000 225,000 residential units which provided housing for more than a

[5:32] million people and you know also creates jobs um we estimated 120,000 jobs

[5:39] created through our programs so that's sort of like the social benefit um um

[5:45] and then our you know we're Mission PR so we don't we're not really a bank we

[5:49] don't we don't do um you know we don't do luxury

[5:54] housing do hotels we focus on housing we also do mixed use properties um which

[6:02] involve typically ground Flo retail commercial businesses um but mostly our

[6:07] focuses on housing and we're trying to figure out ways to produce to lower the

[6:11] costs of producing affordable housing um and help close the racial wealth Gap and

[6:18] also commit to investing in the green economy a lot of what we do is we have a

[6:22] whole sustainability uh Department try to promote uh Green Building energy

[6:28] efficient buildings um um and so that's also one of our kind of

[6:33] mission goals so that's that's about us and then before I get into to the

[6:38] program um I kind of wanted to just give you like what I want the takeaways to be

[6:44] here and and some of the things I'm some of the slides are shown involve math I

[6:50] don't need to get like don't get too tied up in the

[6:54] math just uh to show how a lender looks at a

[7:02] project and a developer and the due diligence that we we uh that we do

[7:08] before we agree to finance a project how we monitor throughout construction how

[7:13] we also monitor once it goes into a 30-year permit mortgage we also service

[7:20] all of the the permanent loans that we do um the typically 30e mortgages on on

[7:26] multif family rental properties that that Finance so we also monitor post

[7:31] post construction and res as well and I think that you

[7:36] know sometimes people think developers are just running REM in the streets and

[7:42] doing whatever they want but there's a lot of oversight that goes into a

[7:46] landing on an affordable or any kind of multi family project it's a very risky

[7:52] um there's a lot of risks involved with it and we can take it very seriously so

[7:59] you know we're typically investing usually somewhere around 75 or 80% of

[8:05] the total project cost so we're the biggest invested in these in these

[8:09] projects and we take it very seriously and we want to make sure that it's

[8:14] successful for the developer communi from

[8:19] T so those are those are the takeways that I want to try

[8:26] to imprint in your mind for going the presentation so the first thing I wanted

[8:32] to talk about is what we call the five Seas of credit and these are the things

[8:38] that we look at when we're looking at a developer or a a particular project and

[8:44] the most important see is character and so we're reviewing the credit history

[8:49] and experience of the borrower we check their business references we check the

[8:53] credit references um we Google them we want to

[8:57] make sure that they're reputable people and that they're um going to

[9:02] provide that they're going to perform on Project when when when we Finance you

[9:08] look at their capacity that's their ability to pay the loan previous

[9:13] projects completed we want them to done projects of similar size similar scope

[9:19] we look at their personal and business financial statements for both the

[9:22] developer and the general contractor for construction

[9:26] projects uh we review the sources of capital that's the third c um and that

[9:33] there's basically three types of of capital sources one is equity or the

[9:38] cash contribution of developer uh and when I say CDC I'm also mean any any

[9:44] kind of conventional Bank Lo we're a little bit different than a bank as I

[9:48] explained but um you know this is most langues would look at things the same

[9:52] way as us and then if there's a gap um which there often is in affordable

[9:58] housing projects uh because the rents are typically lower

[10:02] uh than in a market rate uh project then we we look to to use public subsidy

[10:08] sources to fill that Gap so there's three capital sources cash conventional

[10:13] loan and public subsidy and the fourth St the collateral which is the property

[10:19] itself or and if it's new construction we're looking at the projected completed

[10:23] product or what is planned to be constructed it's a renovation project

[10:28] same thing what what's the project going to look like after it's renovated we do

[10:32] a lot of adaptive reuse projects where we're converting old mil buildings into

[10:37] housing or um you know things like that we call that um you know call that

[10:44] adaptive use and then the other collat that we take on properties not just the

[10:50] property itself but we also we want to ensure completion of project so often

[10:54] we'll take either a bond or a letter of credit as additional collateral 10% of

[11:00] the construction cost so if there's a cost overrun then we can pull on a

[11:04] letter of credit of the bond to make sure the project gets successfully

[11:07] completed and then the last see is just what we call conditions and that's like

[11:12] the condition of the neighborhood what's going on in the market with construction

[11:16] costs what's going on with the local economy what's going on with the

[11:20] national economy what's going on with interest rates what's going on with

[11:23] Market R so sort of like the conditions of the economy and so those are the five

[11:29] of credit um and that you know that's that's that's what is the basis of our

[11:36] our

[11:39] evaluation and the next thing I wanted to talk about was the project

[11:45] feasibility and there's three things that we look at in the predevelopment

[11:49] stage before a project gets financed and that is the site itself or the project

[11:56] itself the development team and the financials and that's uh and I'm

[12:02] going to talk mostly about the financials of rental properties that's

[12:06] primarily what we Finance so so you know the site itself we go out we inspect the

[12:12] property we we we look at the site we review it for does it have own

[12:18] compliance does it have access to Transportation are there comparable

[12:23] projects in the area what are other Municipal considerations permits

[12:27] building codes that need to be and um and are there any Community plans out

[12:31] there preferences what does the community itself Want U and we try to

[12:37] work with municipalities that want to promote different types of projects so

[12:44] we we look at that whole package when we're looking at a site the project and

[12:48] then in terms of the development teams it's who's going to who's going to be

[12:52] responsible for making sure this this is successful development and we look at

[12:57] the owner and developer and often times there's non for-profit sponsors that go

[13:02] to join Ventures with with different types of developers we we look at the

[13:08] experience of the architect and the engineer that's working on the project

[13:12] we want to know about the general contractor who's building it um his

[13:17] what's his capability and then on the back end we want to we review the

[13:22] management company make sure they're management compan is subject to our

[13:26] approval um prior closing on you know 30-year permanent W and then there's

[13:33] other Consultants involved um there's a lot of programs out there both through

[13:37] the utility companies and through different state programs to promote

[13:40] Energy Efficiency so there's Al there's also Consultants involved that may be

[13:45] involved with that aspect and then um the last thing this

[13:50] is something I'm going to kind of focus on in the next few slides is is the

[13:54] financials of rental properties and how do we determine how much SP you loan on

[13:58] the property and unlike I mean most of you probably have your home home buyer

[14:03] mortgages you know when when they qualify for home buyer mortgag they're

[14:07] really looking at your personal income which is different than multif

[14:11] family lending multif family lending loan on the cash flow for building where

[14:16] the projected cash flow to building so when we size the loan we look at the

[14:22] income from the apartments retail if there is a mix juuse and other uh types

[14:29] of income that a property can produce such as if there's a laundry room if

[14:33] there's parking fees there maybe sell Tower rentals on them so we look at all

[14:37] the income that the property produces first and then we look at the property

[14:43] operating and maintenance expenses and those are we call onm and that's

[14:48] basically all the property expenses exclusive of the Deb service or mortgage

[14:53] PS on the along and so you know you can see the list of um operating expenses

[15:00] you know real estate taxes Insurance utilities and repairs management

[15:05] expenses administrative leg you got salar got landscaping

[15:11] sowl and then this this is something that most building most multi family

[15:16] lenders require is a building Reserve um which is which is basically a force

[15:21] savings account building typically take a reserve of $250 per apartment per year

[15:28] which is month L um along with your principal interest payments that goes

[15:32] into a savings account we building so the 10 years from now we building new

[15:37] roof we have a we have a little Nest day to make sure that it main get gets

[15:42] maintained in the long term so that so that's income and expenses so we we

[15:48] subtract the income from the expenses and then we get What's called the net

[15:53] operating income for some called

[15:59] and and that the noi is is what's left over to pay the

[16:06] debt service payments or the mortgage payments and the remainder is becomes

[16:10] profit for the developer or cash flow or it could become or it's a pushing in the

[16:18] event that something happens so operating expenses go up

[16:22] rents drop uh you know things happen it's it's cushion for the the uh for the

[16:30] lender as well as potential profit for theel if things go so typically we take

[16:36] the gross potential income so we take all we all the r that they collect

[16:40] monthly we subtract a vacancy loss of somewhere between 5 and

[16:44] 10% um and that's just because you know Apartments turn over scores close

[16:51] sometimes ten don't pay rent you know so it's it's a subtraction you typically

[16:56] don't get 100% of your r inome uh per year because of vacancy or called non

[17:05] payment rent so I'm going to use a real life example this is a a real project

[17:11] that we did in East stand the Reber um these young guys um who actually came up

[17:17] from Brooklyn and decided to make their home in in Newberg and they started

[17:23] buying small properties in East End and renovating them um into housing and I I

[17:29] changed the Dr here to protect the innocent but suffice to say this is a

[17:34] real project that need and and and it's a vacant building um and it's able to be

[17:41] renovated into five apartments and one storefront and then I'm showing the

[17:46] income here the rents were just shy of $1,200 a month for the apartment that

[17:50] was the average rent there was a store that was paying 1,000 bucks a

[17:54] month for the for their lease and and so that gave us a gross income here of

[18:03] 71,000 on the residential rents and 12,000

[18:08] retails then we had to subtract the vacancy from that um so we had about

[18:14] $5,000 LS for the for the residential and about ,200 for the for the for the

[18:23] space so the net income um goes down

[18:29] to 77,000 so that's what we're projecting is going to collect hopefully

[18:35] but what happens if 110 here one of these five stops paying rent for 6

[18:41] months and you have to evct and that takes another few months all of a sudden

[18:45] you don't have 7% vacancy allow you probably have more like 20% so there's a

[18:51] risk of that but generally um properties operate in in these kind of agency

[18:57] levels so then so we know what our net

[19:01] effective income is this is what we're collecting

[19:05] 77,000 what are the expenses okay so we got all our taxes insurance and

[19:10] everything else so we got $38,000 in operating expenses and we're we have a

[19:16] net effective income after vacancy of 77,000 total operating expenses of

[19:22] 38,000 and that gives us a net operating income to pay debt service and profit

[19:28] of9 ,000 so how do we size the loan based on

[19:33] that so that's $39,000 operated income we calculated

[19:39] that we could loan $440,000 and this for Opera over 30

[19:43] years at 54% and so the debt Ser principal and

[19:48] interest payments on that were $29,000 so this roughly $10,000 is his

[19:55] cash flow and profit for the year hopefully all go as well so the the

[20:00] margins can be pretty thin on these properties particularly Smalls and a lot

[20:05] of the Hudson Valley Properties are in small buildings I don't need to tell you

[20:09] guys that been the D Pan um there's a lot of properties that are let say less

[20:15] than 20 Apartments that's makes up the majority of the housing stock in M of

[20:19] Val so we we look at something so how do we arrive at this

[20:24] $440,000 we have something which is called debt service coverage and the de

[20:28] service coverage is the ratio of the net operating income over the annual dead

[20:33] service so in this case it's 1.34% and somebody told me a long time

[20:37] ago which makes sense that means for every dollar of debt that the owner has

[20:42] to pay he has a dollar 20 to a dollar most lenders

[20:47] require a ratio of between 1.2 and 1.3 that means I have an extra 20 or 30

[20:53] cents per dollar of debt in my pocket and this is this 20 or 30 in this case

[20:59] 34 cents is is basically going to be over to profit and that's how we that's

[21:05] how we determine mon so remember that 440 it's a key

[21:12] number the other thing we look at is loan to value okay lenders do not like

[21:18] to loan 100% of the value of a property why something goes wrong you have to

[21:23] sell it in a foreclosure you have to foreclose L typically people in closure

[21:28] sale don't pay the full value of property they try to get it for Less so

[21:33] generally lenders want to keep their maximum loan to value LTV of between 70

[21:39] 80% so in going back to our example of 123 Main Street you take the net

[21:46] operating income how you determine value and you divide it by what's called a cap

[21:49] rate don't worry about what a cap rate is that's that could be a whole another

[21:53] class but it's basically an expected return that real estate Developers

[21:58] expect um in a particular Market in in the Hudson Valley Cap rates generally

[22:03] range between 6 and 8% so in this case we use 7 the appra

[22:08] used 7% cap rate we got a value of $557,000 that means our Lo to Value was

[22:17] 79,000 so we're within our range of 79% so we have our Deb service coverage

[22:24] of 1.3 or better and we have our loan value which doesn't exceed 80% it's a

[22:31] little bit less than 80% that's how we determine this 440 remember

[22:35] [Music] 440 okay

[22:39] so how does debt service coverage and M value affect project feasibility other

[22:45] said that's one of the things we talk about today and the effective

[22:49] feasibility because they limit the amount that a developer can borrow for a

[22:54] particular project if a developer can't borrow enough money Pro may not be

[22:59] financially feed and remember our sources of capital we have Equity we

[23:03] have debt and we have subsidy we already went over that so I won't go into that

[23:08] and then you have development costs U for a project you have what's it called

[23:13] acquisition construction which is which is also known as the hard cost and then

[23:17] you have what we call soft costs these are all your professional Feats you got

[23:21] to pay your architecture engineer the appraiser the title company the survey I

[23:25] didn't put lawyer that's a big number um and then you have your carrying cost

[23:30] like what does it I still have to pay before this thing gets built I still

[23:34] have to pay real estate taxes on the land I got to have insurance to cover

[23:38] the property and liability I have to pay utilities because I'm using power tools

[23:43] at the site and I have construction interest um when we do a construction

[23:48] loan it's kind of like a credit card for a developer he he draws down on the

[23:53] construction as as the project progresses and he Advance it for is in

[23:59] place so uh he has that to carry construction

[24:04] he's not getting rent yet it's not built so that's out of pocket you got to pay

[24:09] for that so those are the the development costs and so here's the real

[24:13] life example these are real numbers the guys the Brooklyn hipsters that came up

[24:19] and decided to live theend ruber it paid $105,000 for the building the

[24:26] construction cost of 300,000 professional fees car cost to the total

[24:31] cost of this development is a little more than a half a million we were able

[24:35] to $440,000 and so he had to put in

[24:39] $5,000 and that makes sense that's that's sort of like the sweet spot for

[24:44] debt in equity somewhere around 20% Equity developers generally don't want

[24:50] to put in more than 30% equity and here CBC

[25:00] sorry pause there at 7:30 so we'll pick up with the debt service coverage next

[25:09] um but yeah I don't know if any if we wanted to chat about that or we want to

[25:12] move straight to the anybody any questions

[25:16] comments let's get party started welcome everybody um October 8th

[25:24] 2024 planning War it's a pleasure to have everybody here

[25:28] um thank you guys all for attending John couldn't make it so I'm in the hot seat

[25:33] tonight I think we got some business to do first um we have a couple of minutes

[25:38] we need to approve it looks like we need to approve we we can't do August because

[25:42] we don't have for we don't have a form that mean in September we can do okay so

[25:49] we do that so she had made one at it I had a couple things I wanted to go over

[25:57] cuz they're actually pertinent to the one of the applications on September or

[26:00] on September okay okay so we're going to par August for the moment I think we

[26:05] have to we don't have and I'm just saying it for we're going to park August

[26:09] for the moment and we're going to go to September you have some comments on

[26:13] September yeah here's what it was on our 19 Henry Street application um first of

[26:19] all one of the commenters Carl schaer he is at 86

[26:25] Katherine Street not 36 significant because it has to do with proximity to

[26:29] the property um should we be actually noting what

[26:35] these people said at least briefly in the minutes because the other commenter

[26:41] was talking about tree cover and then there was a later discussion with the

[26:45] applicant and now there's been changes on the plans about tree cover and it's

[26:50] in um Eric's comments among other things John's comments pardon me yeah the

[26:56] minutes so I'll just say legally the minutes only have to include votes taken

[27:01] and and the board members that were present so that's the only that's the

[27:05] bare minimum legal requirement for minutes um so the the minutes that have

[27:11] been prepared also reference where you can access the video so in addition to

[27:16] the summary you have here you also have the video um that can be accessed by

[27:21] people but beyond that it's between you and and Mercedes as far as like how

[27:27] detailed you want to get in the description of of what was

[27:30] discussed I don't want to make it more difficult than it has to be we should

[27:34] correct the address but okay no I'm just going to in the event of some a

[27:37] situation like what's mentioned and there is some um some clarity that needs

[27:43] respect to the minute should we be more detailed as a question or is it is it it

[27:48] just point towards the video how do we address something like what's being said

[27:53] so there's a couple different considerations one um for your use of

[27:57] minutes you know if you want to refer back to minutes as a summary of what was

[28:01] discussed instead of going back to the video I guess it would be more helpful

[28:05] to have a description um for like litigation purposes if any decision of

[28:12] the board were challenged the minutes are part of the record but so is the

[28:15] video is a video so all of that could be provided to the court or a transcript of

[28:20] the video could be provided to the court um so we don't lose anything from a you

[28:25] know record perspective by by not including including the summary in the

[28:29] minutes um and then there's of course for the benefit of the public

[28:33] um it's you know same for for your considerations um if you want

[28:38] description in the you know narrative description in the minutes versus uh

[28:43] going to the videotape yeah are there ever guidelines about um ways to avoid

[28:49] editorializing by the way you summarize the minutes you understand what I'm

[28:52] saying like selectively uh pulling out agenda items right which happen you try

[28:58] to paraphrase public comment you may not capture you know but also Mr Mr Smith

[29:05] made a PO comment right but also it might be useful for

[29:10] the Casual person or whatever to be able to understand uh to track the discussion

[29:15] right or maybe the best thing is to go to the video though because the video

[29:18] would reflect the more accurate version of everything so it's probably more

[29:23] advantageous to point to the video to avoid any discrepancy I think so yeah as

[29:29] opposed to language tone inflections which can't be reflected in the

[29:33] minutes which can't be seen in the videoos so I mean some people make the

[29:38] effort but there's a point of how it's it's a slippy slope of you know if you

[29:42] miss something you don't miss something perod and the Comm in the wrong place

[29:46] could be the difference so poin to the videotape I think is PARTA of the best

[29:50] so for the purpose of our business can I have a motion to approve with the

[29:55] modifications the minutes for September 10th 2024 motion can I have a second

[30:01] second all in favor I I was

[30:08] second so August Parks okay so we're going to

[30:13] go to our regular business today did was there Jennifer was just going back to my

[30:19] my vide tape in my mind okay we're good um we're going back to item number one

[30:25] continue public hearing and continue review of application for site plan

[30:28] approval and subdivision approval 19 Henry Street Town Home submitted by

[30:35] Larry Joseph Builders now I believe last meeting there was a um uh to have you

[30:42] prepared the document yes yeah so at the last meeting the board um directed my

[30:47] office to prepare secret documents for your review for tonight um you do have

[30:53] those before you you have the short form part two that's been filled out for you

[30:58] review and then part three with um The Narrative that's been attached

[31:03] supporting a negative declaration finding there's no significant adverse

[31:06] environmental impacts um and this is available on the website um and was

[31:12] circulated to the board a few days ago okay excellent so can I have a motion to

[31:16] open the public hearing motion well before we before we do that you should

[31:21] act on secra first so just as far as sequencing goes act on secra then we can

[31:26] um uh basically reopen the site plan public hearing that's currently uh

[31:31] extended from last month and then you have a subdivision public hearing that's

[31:36] going to be opened brand new tonight okay excellent so

[31:41] um let's go to comments on this first um on item one bear with me for a

[31:51] second yep I can start um I just had one uh my last letter from last month was

[31:56] that all comments had been addressed um I just had one comment on this plan um

[32:01] when looking at the photometrics I saw something I had missed before that it

[32:05] looked like the max lighting level was saying 10.3 foot candles um but I didn't

[32:10] see that reflected in the photometric so I just thought that was a a probably a

[32:14] point of correction Michael speak to that yeah

[32:18] okay just cuz that is kind of bright so I was wondering where was on the site

[32:22] it's it's not a typo it's actually the the brightest light directly beneath

[32:27] those lights only 8 ft High they're in that little vestibule area so they are

[32:32] hitting that Bri right there front of the property right not yeah no not

[32:37] anywhere near the property it's just directly it's the front porch is what I

[32:40] think is the front porch yeah the front porch like okay I well I just so that is

[32:44] a high level but if it's right underneath it and it's kind of enclosed

[32:47] then I guess that makes a little bit more sense and then there is no Lighting

[32:51] in the rear they're not proposing any rear lights well aside from like a

[32:55] normal light you would buy at Home Depot over your slider you can't model those

[32:59] twinkle lights or yeah okay yeah okay yeah that was the only thing that I was

[33:05] that I was noting is that um I mean the overall lighting levels on the site

[33:09] right are if you average it all out are 027 and that's foot candles and that's

[33:13] the stipulation with the code that those should not be higher than one so they

[33:17] are meeting that um 10.3 is kind of bright but if it's at your front door um

[33:22] I think the applicant could probably make an argument for why it's that

[33:26] bright at the front door but um that was my one comment is I I had noticed that

[33:31] kind of higher level of a Max there I think the other benefit is that

[33:36] it's in the front of the property it's not in the rear I you know I wanted to

[33:39] make sure it wasn't in the rear property kind of looking into The Shining into

[33:42] the backyards of the neighbors or anything like that so that was the my

[33:46] one comment okay so in but in light of it being not a not a typo are you

[33:52] comfortable with I just want to make sure cuz yeah I mean I don't there there

[33:57] is no regulation the code that really talks about that max level their average

[34:02] is meeting the code requirement um I think what we've talked about in the

[34:06] past on site plans is you know anything over 5 foot candles as often you start

[34:11] to feel like you're indoors right um so just asking the necessity of that so I

[34:17] think we would balance that higher level with need for safety um if I don't know

[34:23] if the applicant wants to speak to that more but that would be that would be my

[34:26] comment okay so can can we just get to just to make sure we clarify that and if

[34:31] the applicant wanted to speak to why it's so bright I think i' I'm just going

[34:36] to infer but I believe it's proximity to the parking lot across the street it's a

[34:39] pretty you know busy area I think for purposes as was point about the planner

[34:43] it's specifically over the entrance way so I think that was the limited knowing

[34:47] that it's supposed to be walkable we're encouraging all that I think it's like

[34:50] anything else it's just the the front door and it's not extending to the

[34:53] property line it's it's just over the the front entry okay yeah I think it's

[34:57] important part it is it's not um it's not transferring any kind of glare or

[35:02] light levels over the property line so is it like a just a regular porch light

[35:07] or is it some high intensity outdoor

[35:12] light it's it is it's a it's an LED light it's

[35:16] 3,000k um I think 15 watts it's the smallest light we could find to model so

[35:23] it's not it's not like these sodium highlighted lights you see in a it's

[35:27] like a standard household light over a door okay thank

[35:32] you so I have a few comments with regards to the subdivision plant that

[35:36] was submitted um I know there's going to be access easements around the sides of

[35:41] the buildings to allow the uh homeowners that are located in the center to have

[35:47] abilities to get to their rear yards but the question was are what if people

[35:52] install fences are we going to prohibit F uh people from installing fences along

[35:56] their rear yard are property lines running to the back lot or are they

[36:00] going to be required to have Gates put in

[36:05] um the other two with regards to the Subdivision plat are just cleaning up

[36:09] the easement drawings that were on the plans to eliminate um

[36:16] crossover uh then with regards to the plan uh there's a minor correction that

[36:21] has to be done on the tree planting de uh detail and then I was thinking a note

[36:26] should be added to the plans with regards to that the homeowners are

[36:30] responsible to maintain the trees on the respective parcel and to replace it if

[36:34] the tree dies or is taken down um you know if they're going to provide

[36:38] screening to the neighbors it needs to be maintained for

[36:41] longevity we have no objection to all those we didn't sorry to interrupt we we

[36:46] we intend to include those including a note saying no fences you know or to the

[36:50] extent practicable a gate is necessary private easement rights would also apply

[36:55] so no one could do that or if somebody it would be A Private Matter between

[36:59] parties right I'd hate to see one of the Interior homeowners have to try to come

[37:04] around the back and they can't get through off so we'll add a note to that

[37:07] effect or emergency responders firemen there may be windows that are

[37:12] required for fireman access in the rear I don't know I just wanted I want to ask

[37:17] how is the tree situation normally handled I mean it's these are town

[37:21] homester There's not going to be an HOA right there's really nobody else we

[37:25] could put the burden on right these are going to be individual

[37:30] simple they're going to be individual Lots so they are controlled the only

[37:33] access easement was just so that if you had a lawn mower or something you wanted

[37:36] to swing around the back that there was no the people in the middle couldn't mow

[37:39] their lawn you know it was just that was the the limitation there so it would be

[37:43] on the proper the respective property on each lot will be responsible well I mean

[37:46] it's a matter of property right if the easements the access easements are

[37:50] recorded So is the site plan so the site plan is there it'll be notes on the site

[37:54] plan if they're not there they're in non-compliance with the site plan the

[37:58] building department can issue a violation it'll be on file with the city

[38:02] of Beacon so okay if the easements are recorded for

[38:08] Access for the adjacent land owner or you know adjacent Town Home Access is a

[38:13] legal proposition we've taken care of it it should we be doing anything more here

[38:19] to make to try to avoid this being an issue if I may we've seen we've seen

[38:23] instances where neighbor where we've installed trees on a neighbor's property

[38:27] right rather than on our own and then there there's a different set of

[38:30] responsibilities so there may be agreements like that these are installed

[38:32] on the property so they will be a site plan condition and enforcable so

[38:36] neighbor a says tree B fell the building department can say it's on the site plan

[38:40] you as the owner are responsible for replacing it the only other instance

[38:43] where you'd have something recorded like that is typically if you're doing it on

[38:46] someone else's property but you're absolutely right if there was HOA or

[38:49] other management structures you could do it that way but the site plan is is

[38:52] another enforcement mechanism for this specific purpose it's not always a

[38:56] requirement that the trees be maintained but the board has thought that condition

[39:00] through because of the neighbors comments and are are considering so

[39:03] we'll be on the site plan and we can note I think we already have noted that

[39:07] they need to be

[39:15] replaced let let is going quick no comments no questions on the short form

[39:21] of the narrative for secret I'm fine thank you okay so we can

[39:28] make so yeah yeah so next step would be a motion to adopt the secret negative

[39:34] declaration um and then you can go ahead and open the public hearing open okay

[39:38] can I have that motion motion I have a

[39:44] second a second second second okay second yeah okay all in

[39:52] favor yeah yes get everybody flaged

[39:59] all right um can I have a motion to re cuz we're reopening this from um the

[40:05] site plan the site plan Public public hearing but we're also opening the

[40:10] subdivision and we can do them both simultaneously okay okay so I'll move to

[40:15] reopen site plan approval on the application as well as open the public

[40:19] hear reopen the public hearing on site plan approval as well

[40:24] as opening review on subdivision right or

[40:28] on the subis right that's your motion second all in

[40:35] favor good

[40:39] evening for the record Taylor Palmer I'll keep this very brief as the board

[40:42] had a good discussion of what we're here for as mentioned we are continuing our

[40:45] site plan public hearing and also opening the subdivision uh aspect for

[40:48] these four uh two-story attached Town Homes at 19 uh Henry Street for the uh

[40:53] record and for the public we did update the notices and all the mailings for the

[40:57] new public hearing for the subdivision um we did provide a comprehensive

[41:00] summary of the project at our last meeting but I'll give a quick uh

[41:03] overview for the benefit of this evening our supplemental submission dated

[41:06] September 24th uh included additional refinements to that site plan and

[41:09] Subdivision plat many of the comments uh which you just heard from your board but

[41:13] specifically the changes from our last meeting is we did update a planting plan

[41:16] to include seven thua giant uh Green Giant uh trees along the rear property

[41:21] line uh which would provide screening for neighbors that were previously uh

[41:24] proposed red Maples uh we did revise the plot to include references to the

[41:28] drainage easements uh and the proposed lots for underground roof drain pipes as

[41:33] well as The Pedestrian easements that we just discussed with the board so those

[41:35] were the the changes responsive to board and member of the public uh that had

[41:39] spoken at the last meeting so that's thank you thank you um let's just is uh

[41:45] anyone here from the public for this particular

[41:49] application

[41:53] thank Teresa craft since this public hearing was re opened I'll make that

[41:58] comment um I'm still opposed to this type of housing on Henry Street location

[42:03] and I don't want to see this type of formula used throughout the rest of the

[42:07] city of eacon um the neighbors the current

[42:11] neighbors behind around will be forced to live next to 8 to 20

[42:16] people and uh this will impact their quality of life but I also want to say

[42:22] that this could all become airbnbs so you'll have no control over any lighting

[42:27] noise anything that comes into there I think the city is has like 60s something

[42:32] registered airbnbs and we all know that there's hundreds throughout the city I

[42:36] believe this will happen there too thank

[42:40] you anybody else for the public for this so leave it open we should also

[42:48] mention the um email comment that you yes yes yes yes

[42:53] yes there were two okay if you want to yeah sure so um

[42:59] the board did also receive uh by way of public comment uh written comment sent

[43:04] to Mercedes press who circulated to the board members from the neighboring

[43:08] property owner at 21 Henry Street um and the the the comments are part of the

[43:16] record but um essentially I think the the main gist of the comment was uh

[43:22] discussing the the setback between the two properties

[43:29] thank you let's just go around the board real quick s

[43:35] that I I don't really have any comments you on what I said before we open the

[43:39] hearing so you know I have to tell you I had a

[43:43] belated thought but this may not be uh relevant that if the uh Paving was used

[43:51] pavers like decorative pavers with the infiltration instead of asphalt that it

[43:57] might improve the ability one of the problems one of the things that's going

[44:00] to impact this visually and probably the reaction to it is the fact that there'll

[44:04] be uh a bunch of curb cuts and driveways in an area now that just has one uh and

[44:12] um that was one way to make it lessen the visual impact but I I'm not that

[44:21] committed to it I think it' be an improvement and I would I would do it if

[44:23] I it was my project

[44:28] um so just in in regard to that public comment that we received via email if I

[44:32] remember the gist of it the concern was that the uh distance between the new

[44:37] development and the adjacent property to the east I think right M was there

[44:43] anything I mean we've gone through the required setbacks and the site plan no

[44:49] they are zoning compliance yeah so

[44:53] yeah that's it that's it that's all I have thanks I don't have any any other

[44:57] comments that the only thing that's different is that it's a subdivision

[45:01] approval this week I feel like we we review the design issues to date and um

[45:08] so I have no further comments okay thank you and just going back anyone else from

[45:13] the public want to make any comments on this at

[45:16] all okay so at this point we can close the public hearing give a motion motion

[45:23] to going back to close the site plan public hearing site

[45:28] plan and the subdivision public site plan and the subis subdivision public

[45:33] hearing seconded by Len all in favor I I okay

[45:41] now next step would be to direct my office to prepare uh a resolution for

[45:47] your next meeting have that motion motion second second all in favor I I

[45:55] [Music]

[46:03] okay now now we're done with with 1900 move

[46:09] on to the next agenda we're done make I'll sit down for a second right

[46:15] okay I'll be right back I'll be right back all right we move on to item number

[46:19] two Contin

[46:24] review Contin review of application for site plan and subdivision approval mixed

[46:29] use commercial and residential 45 beatman Street High Street and High

[46:33] Street submitted by beakman Art Center LLC and Bay Ridge Studios LLC hello

[46:40] again good evening again acting chairman for the record uh Taylor Palmer with the

[46:44] law firm of c and fader on behalf of the applicant uh tonight I am joined by our

[46:47] project architect ra seagull whose anniversary is tonight oh happy

[46:51] anniversary right we always join each other on Valentine's Day and

[46:54] anniversaries it's it's becoming too much um AR I don't know where we're

[46:57] going tonight but I guess um myam um our project engineer is

[47:04] Justin dates U of cers and Rich de Andrea also from cers for our traffic

[47:08] consultant so um uh as the board is aware at our September 10th meeting uh

[47:12] the planning board referred this to the ARB subcommittee uh for the review and

[47:16] our architect met with that committee uh yesterday uh to review the project in

[47:20] Greater detail uh to assist the ARB and its review our most recent submission uh

[47:25] some of the pretty pictures that are up on on the screen uh included some

[47:29] additional photo realistic renderings uh that included views of the

[47:33] project from beakman Street and High Street uh and now shows a Stairway at

[47:37] the end and of course Arya will walk through uh some of these details uh at

[47:41] the end of High Street Building on to beakman that was one of the requests

[47:43] from the board uh in our discussion and we also have the route 9d with City Hall

[47:47] in the background some of the renderings you'll see tonight have also been

[47:49] enhanced further to also represent uh other development in the area including

[47:53] the view uh Beacon views excuse me West End lofts uh and some of the other

[47:58] development in the quarter and we're going to start to work on the other side

[48:00] of uh of 90 as well the renderings were designed to demonstrate how the

[48:05] buildings are intended to relate to the existing buildings in the surrounding

[48:08] area and the use of their materials proportions and scale uh as well so as

[48:13] ra will show you all in just a minute again as I mentioned we did update uh

[48:17] you know the visuals to include uh some of those additional development in the

[48:21] area our submission also included an updated inii report and Landscaping plan

[48:26] uh as well as a parking memo uh that was updated by Mr Deandrea the inii report

[48:31] confirms that uh the site observations and testing have not revealed storm

[48:35] water connections to the city's sanitary sewer system um and as Justin we riew

[48:39] with the board in a minute the updated Landscaping plan demonstrates that the

[48:42] project has been refined to try and response to the board comments and

[48:46] surrounding streetscape uh to enhance the visitor experience so I'll let those

[48:50] guys talk about the specific updates and then Rich will um briefly

[48:55] speak to uh the parking memorandum which was adjusted to reflect the city's new

[48:59] parking regulations that were adopted uh and how the property still complies with

[49:04] those um regulations now it wouldn't be an anniversary I didn't hop on my soap

[49:09] boox for a minute here um and say one thing while the acting chairman is here

[49:12] Mr chairman is probably going to watch this at home um I did just want to

[49:15] quickly note a few things um the renderings and our detailed submissions

[49:19] have been just that detailed we've made a lot of effort to date uh including

[49:23] voluntarily approaching the New York State DOT for additional approvals

[49:26] exemplary of the applicant's ongoing commitment to constructing the best

[49:30] project possible uh our efforts reveal a clear intention to give the property new

[49:35] life and create a new opportunity for the city's downtown area while certain

[49:39] comments at the planning board's meeting last month May downplay these efforts

[49:42] these comments did not fairly provide a reasonable context for what the

[49:45] application is proposing here and the vision that was set forth in the city's

[49:49] comprehensive planning documents and has been meticulously detailed in our prior

[49:52] submissions to say that those first renderings have uh a evolved over a

[49:57] series of months is to that excuse me to say first issue renderings that have

[50:02] evolved over a series of months is a missed opportunity ignores the reality

[50:06] of the situation the applicant finds itself in the only missed opportunity

[50:09] would be if the applicant didn't breeve new life into this site this

[50:12] underutilized property the applicant is creating a new opportunity at this site

[50:17] one that the developers and the prior owners couldn't achieve he's working

[50:21] with the New York State Department of of of transportation to take back what

[50:24] urban renewal took away to give that back through reimagining

[50:28] re-engineering this prominent Corner that has been seen uh multif family

[50:33] development all around it including new city hall and the fire department uh the

[50:37] project is and will create opportunities to realize these Visions set forth in

[50:41] your comprehensive plan and is to create linkages to Main Street and the train

[50:44] station we hear the words iconic and we think of Taj Mahal the Eiffel Tower Big

[50:50] Ben the Empire State Building those are iconic buildings well this project and

[50:54] the beacon architect I should say remain committing to making this big little

[51:00] Beacon or beak Empire State Building um it's made by beaconites for beaconites

[51:05] and most importantly it's been designed and refined throughout this process and

[51:09] we're by no means done but I think it's important to address those comments

[51:12] because this project is continually committed to it and we want to make sure

[51:16] it gets there we know the ARB just got its hands into it but we thought it was

[51:19] important to address that thank you

[51:39] good evening so um yeah I just wanted to mention that we had a a very good and

[51:45] productive meeting with uh Natalie in the ARB subcommittee yesterday um that

[51:50] there was you know specific recommendations that we're looking at

[51:54] incorporating into the design um we we're also re visiting the

[51:59] connection at the um just get the landscape drawing up

[52:08] here at at the corner of um 90 and beakman where and and I I spoke to

[52:15] Justin about it uh this morning and we think we have a way to approach that so

[52:21] we we can connect that corner and and the plaza there to the corner of the

[52:25] building and um you know make make that work

[52:28] better um and then basically on once the design

[52:33] is updated um we'll go back to the ARB and continue to you know work out the

[52:39] details on that end um I just show you updated renderings that as Taylor

[52:46] mentioned has a little bit more context um in that connection can I interrupt

[52:51] you and ask a question real quick it um those rendies uh

[52:57] on sheet five towards the bottom we've got

[53:01] elevations on the building um

[53:06] yeah and if you zoom in the the bottom line is the corner feature on both of

[53:14] the buildings is different on that elevation than it is

[53:19] on the the the renderings that follow the diff you know whether it's a pointy

[53:24] top Tower or whether it's a glass yeah I have my little uh caveat note on

[53:30] the bottom of the page there that that that was just really intended to show

[53:34] the scale of the um the the building as as the you know as you see it cut

[53:40] through the sidewalk so okay the one in the rendering is what you're on right

[53:44] now yeah okay that was the question

[53:49] yeah um yeah so the the these this version of

[53:55] the renderings with the to additional contexts were not submitted um but we

[54:00] did review those yesterday and you know they they do show the buildings with

[54:05] some of the other developments around and and maybe just for people who

[54:09] weren't who didn't have the context to the comment you were talking about was

[54:13] to to make the arcade accessible from the corner of beakman and 9d and that

[54:17] Plaza area were right so that there's a a good pedestrian access to try to get

[54:22] that space yeah and and and that that's what I uh spoke with um Justin about

[54:27] today we we're trying to figure out a way to work with the grading cuz it's a

[54:31] little difficult over there it's the dot property there's some uh utilities under

[54:36] there but we I I think we came up with an with an approach and then that

[54:41] that'll be shown on the next submission um just a quick question when you say

[54:46] utilities is that are there like manhole covers that you would have to extend I

[54:49] that sort of thing there pipes under there

[54:53] or there's existing uh storm motor sewer come through like so you'd have to build

[54:59] a structure to there's no no structures or Ties That proposed it's just there's

[55:04] existing pipes there that are roughly I believe like 10 ft down so we're really

[55:09] trying to minimize any more fill that we would put over top of that then it's not

[55:13] so because there's two things that I thought of which I I'm just is that if

[55:17] there is a roadway it requires different fill and it then for the building right

[55:22] they require structural fill or something right if you put a on-ramp

[55:25] there you don't want to do that it's not part of your scope I'm

[55:29] assuming or they or the city would the state would have to do that later the

[55:33] other issue would be the um uh uh you'd be doing work on state

[55:39] property right that you'd have to get the approval and go through State

[55:43] approval process because I I think it's a big I personally it's it's an

[55:48] opportunity and I'm I just want to find out how difficult it is to to take

[55:53] advantage of it yeah so two two things so as far as

[55:58] the the future T Lane and the sketch that we showed several several months

[56:03] ago we looked at that actually today just to see how that would fit with what

[56:07] we're talking about on the corner now it would work went have to massage it a

[56:12] little bit and just make sure that it works now and works in the future if

[56:16] that ever that right turn Lan does go ahead um but there's plenty of room to

[56:19] do all that um and we'll show that sketch just probably next month um the

[56:26] other piece that you're talking about about can you use that area for to do

[56:29] these things and what does the do would need because it's on their property uh

[56:33] it's it's all doable from what I see um it's mostly just Hardscape kind of

[56:38] sidewalk type treatments right so and Landscaping all those things to

[56:43] typically allows in there right away it's when you get into larger structures

[56:46] where and and more permanent structures that you have more of an issue right so

[56:50] um I think we'll have to go through an approval process with do for this

[56:54] obviously but from what I see in my opinion it's all it's all doable and

[56:59] typical for stuff that can be done in the do right away because I I I I don't

[57:03] want to suggest something that's impossible to do sure but I think

[57:05] there's a public interest and I think the state might want to help in some way

[57:09] in order to make that part of their easement and that part of the city plan

[57:13] more publicly accessible that broader area to allow for that uh turning lane

[57:18] later and also the the the the um pedestrian connection up 90 right

[57:25] towards the bridge to still be continuous and uh and pleasant you know

[57:30] to improve the the the The Pedestrian experience in that whole area and if

[57:36] there's a way to plan it out where you're not because I understand like

[57:39] trying to avoid engaging other agencies and other things that's that's

[57:43] completely understandable and and also things that you don't have approval for

[57:47] you can't get right if if you don't that that's understandable as well but I

[57:51] think we should really try if we can to make that portion of the Street uh um uh

[57:59] because the turning lane may not ever happen so that in both uh scenarios

[58:04] either there is an ATT turning lane or if there is ATT turning lane that that

[58:09] The Pedestrian experience isn't sort of a precarious forgotten No Man's Land

[58:13] right right absolutely yeah I think that makes total sense and the idea would

[58:18] also be that if the right turn lane did happen that you're not reconstructing

[58:22] the entire thing also right right I'm not you know I don't think anybody wants

[58:26] to do unreasonable things but you don't want to preclude improvements later

[58:31] right or a better situation later or you don't want to take advantage of the

[58:35] opportunity now if if if uh uh there's uh um ways for Street improvements to be

[58:43] funded you know that aren't you know necessarily your your area of

[58:48] responsibility

[58:54] okay yes I think I think that's sort of the update on the uh on the design end

[58:59] so we're we're we're going to work on those items um and and you know

[59:03] definitely work on weaving that corner together um and then we'll be back with

[59:09] more next month and back to the uh ARB as

[59:13] well

[59:21] thanks business I think I was just going to give an update on the just the the

[59:26] parking memo and and some other updates on dot that we didn't talk about so um

[59:31] we did we were asked last month to provide just the an updated parking

[59:35] analysis based on the changes that were done in the uh the change the adopted

[59:39] the new adopted parking code um so we went through that uh it doesn't

[59:44] drastically change the anything in the analysis necessarily but really the code

[59:49] now specifies that the parking standards that are in the code are now a maximum

[59:53] parking standard for the for the site um so when you look at that now the 109

[59:59] spaces that were required before are now the 109 spaces that are now a maximum um

[1:00:04] we then you know still did our shared parking analysis that was done before

[1:00:08] it's the same analysis um at the end of the day we're still looking at 88

[1:00:12] parking spaces uh being what we feel is the appropriate number of parking spaces

[1:00:16] doesn't take any credit for the proximity of the train station

[1:00:21] bike usage any of that it's just straight parking shared parking analysis

[1:00:26] based on utilization of the different uses at different times of the day so um

[1:00:30] that we we kind of feel that 88 parking spaces is still the appropriate number

[1:00:34] of parking spaces for the site um and then just to give you an update on a

[1:00:39] couple other things on the dot end of things so we had been talking about for

[1:00:42] a couple months having a call with DOT we finally were able to make that happen

[1:00:46] about two weeks ago um there's we're still waiting for some formal feedback

[1:00:52] from them after that which we were hoping to have before this meeting but

[1:00:56] we haven't received yet um couple things that came out of that uh generally dot

[1:01:00] was in favor of the timing and phasing modifications that were recommending for

[1:01:04] the intersection um but one thing that I did find out that wasn't was new

[1:01:08] information to me was that the state actually has an Adaptive traffic signal

[1:01:12] Software System that's in play at that intersection and going up 9d um it's not

[1:01:19] functioning at the moment but it's it's it's installed so they're working on

[1:01:23] getting that functioning um so that may change things a little bit so they were

[1:01:28] going to give us some feedback on that uh when they provided their written

[1:01:31] comments um the other thing that they did note is that there is no adaptive

[1:01:37] traffic signal software at the Main Street intersection so that may be

[1:01:40] something that they're looking at as well and I'm not sure if you guys know

[1:01:43] what adaptive is okay I so just to to to step back on that so adaptive traffic

[1:01:49] signal software is is it's an additional software that gets added onto the

[1:01:52] traffic signal controller that really allows the signal to better adapt to

[1:01:56] surges in traffic right so specifically you think about the train station when

[1:02:00] you got a surge of traffic coming out of the train station the the signal can

[1:02:04] actually learn that over time so every day at 5:15 the train comes and there's

[1:02:09] a surge of traffic the signal can learn that over time and be ready to adjust

[1:02:13] for that ahead of time and it look can also communicate with other signals that

[1:02:18] have this software um along the corridor and help to move traffic through the

[1:02:22] corridor to get is it video there's already video out there if you look out

[1:02:27] there there's a camera looks like a a bell camera um so that there is video

[1:02:31] that's involved um and that's just the the detection portion of it and then

[1:02:36] this is just a like it's almost like an AI software it's not exactly that but

[1:02:40] it's kind of like that um that is in the controller and and really functions as a

[1:02:46] addition on top of what is typically done is like a a Time based timings

[1:02:52] right so at this time of the day we're going to run 30 seconds on this one pH

[1:02:57] phase this one approach and 20 seconds on the other approach right now with the

[1:03:03] Adaptive there really isn't necessarily a timing that's associated with it this

[1:03:08] this the program has the ability to just kind of modify things with in within

[1:03:12] some parameters really on the fly as uh traffic surges change on different

[1:03:17] movements and approaches and is that all the way up to the bridge lights it goes

[1:03:22] all the way up to the bridge lights yes now again I don't I don't think any of

[1:03:25] it functioning at the moment but they do have it in

[1:03:29] play I would agree not lately no I I wonder if it's similar they have in tall

[1:03:35] buildings elevator Banks they have similar demand managementof very similar

[1:03:40] right similar idea right so so that that was something that was that was that I

[1:03:45] had not was not aware of until we had that call um so that'll be part of all

[1:03:50] part of what we're doing here um we did discuss the know the future

[1:03:55] right turn lane uh do is in favor of it they we told them look it's not part of

[1:04:01] our proposal for this project do indicated they have no Monies to do it

[1:04:05] themselves so it's just kind of a how do we get that accomplished in the future

[1:04:10] if that's something that the city wants to see um and then lastly you know we've

[1:04:16] been talking about the land acquisition um for the frontage there dot is just

[1:04:20] going through a detailed review now of um their in internally of of that right

[1:04:27] away that we're looking to acquire um and once that's complete they'll let us

[1:04:32] know that everything's good and then it'll have it has goes through a process

[1:04:35] up in up in Albany so there's some still some work to be done there but it is in

[1:04:40] in the process how long does that process take

[1:04:43] Rich once you come to Aly well we started that when we start that in

[1:04:48] August Yeah well yeah but when we made the

[1:04:51] last June maybe yeah so we had a call with another call with them in August is

[1:04:56] what it was um it's probably close to a year by the time we're said and done

[1:05:05] so thank you so Ken worstead from kraton Manning

[1:05:11] wanted me to know he's not here tonight obviously but um he is reviewing the

[1:05:14] shared the updated shared parking memo that was provided by colar um and he'll

[1:05:19] have updated comments for the board on that and also Randall your microphone is

[1:05:24] off that's from

[1:05:28] Pete I about the uh parking study I was I thought it'd be really uh informative

[1:05:34] everybody that works so hard I know the council work Forever on this new parking

[1:05:38] and it's um it's really useful for uh to get the feedback of what the actual

[1:05:44] effect of it was what what changed you know from the studies what was what was

[1:05:49] uh what the requirements were with the old code and what they are now this is

[1:05:53] like a perfect example if it probably wouldn't be that tough you probably have

[1:05:56] the numbers in the back of a legal pad or something of like how how your design

[1:06:01] changed because of the code the new parking regulations and also how it

[1:06:06] affects you know then you could extrapolate how it would affect uh

[1:06:10] parking supply and demand going forward for other developments right yeah I mean

[1:06:15] for this specific development I don't know that it really changed much right

[1:06:20] because the standards kind of went from a minimum to a maximum oh got okay right

[1:06:26] when you get to other and I'm sure we'll talk about this on other projects going

[1:06:30] forward when you get to other areas of the city where you have a minimum and a

[1:06:33] maximum that's that are both identified right now you have to fall within that

[1:06:38] that range and we have to really show how we think that the number we come up

[1:06:44] with is the number right then it's up to you guys to

[1:06:47] decide what's the were you seeking you were seeking a waiver under a prev right

[1:06:52] cuz you weren't meeting the minimum before there wasn't ly we were

[1:06:56] requesting a waiver for the reduction parking from the 109 to the 88 based on

[1:07:02] shared parking and so now you no longer have to I mean that would be a change

[1:07:05] you didn't change your design but you no longer have to seek a waiver for that

[1:07:09] but it is still the planning board's decision so it's they're allowed to have

[1:07:13] a maximum of 109 spaces right but they're presenting that 88 is the right

[1:07:19] number but ultimately that's your decision whether 88 is the right number

[1:07:22] or not I think to that point it would be helpful I you know I I understand like

[1:07:26] the use of it standards and the shared parking agreement but I think it would

[1:07:29] be helpful for the board to understand how those 88 spaces will be managed

[1:07:34] right so you have 64 apartment units just under 15,000 ft of commercial so

[1:07:39] like is the intent to advertise these units as one car space per unit right so

[1:07:46] that's 64 and then the other 22 spaces are going to be dedicated to employees

[1:07:50] of the commercial space or where will visitors you know like just to how it's

[1:07:55] a little bit down the line I think in thinking about operation but um how you

[1:08:01] intend for that to like actually function you know on once this building

[1:08:04] yeah I think we we can we can talk to you know our client about that a little

[1:08:09] bit more um but the way that shared parking works right now is it assumes

[1:08:13] that all the spaces are shared between the residential and Commercial so that

[1:08:17] you don't plan to mark them at all in terms of these are residential yeah

[1:08:21] they're just first come first serve cor okay um and then the other piece think

[1:08:25] in terms of like I don't know if the board has questions about the 88 but if

[1:08:28] we start to get there I think the other aspect in the new zoning code um is

[1:08:32] looking a little bit more away from the standard it standards and then instead

[1:08:36] trying to reference local developments right so if you see other residential

[1:08:41] units at these price points that are currently functioning what's the actual

[1:08:45] utilization rate that they're seeing in their parking facility there you know I

[1:08:48] think that kind of information will be helped especially if you can find

[1:08:51] something approximate to the train station to show okay these two bedroom

[1:08:55] unit are actually only using one point whatever space per unit and I think that

[1:08:59] would be a helpful comparison wait flip side of the coin here um precisely

[1:09:05] because we're this close to the train station 10 or 15 years ago I used to be

[1:09:08] able to like Drive I forget the name of the street but like four blocks up the

[1:09:12] street from the train station and park and tons of people were doing it and

[1:09:16] then finally one day the city came in and expanded the 2hour only or 4H hour

[1:09:20] only whatever it is parking sign so you couldn't do that anymore if you're not

[1:09:24] doing something to restrict two parks there how are you going to keep people

[1:09:27] from me from parking like me from parking in your parking lot and

[1:09:30] commuting on the train well there's still going to yeah

[1:09:34] there's still going to be no parking signs for like nonusers I'm sure you

[1:09:39] know if you like if any other owner of a property if they saw somebody parking

[1:09:43] there and walking clearly walking to the train station you would go have that car

[1:09:47] car tow right so um if you tried to get a car tow in the city of

[1:09:51] be they won't the tow companies don't want to tow unless they're a tiet on

[1:09:56] there and a police officer directing to they're concerned about getting charged

[1:09:59] with auto theft literally I had a car stuck on my in my driveway I couldn't

[1:10:04] get

[1:10:08] Toad I I don't want to get too far ahead of probably going to buy a lot of those

[1:10:13] stickers that they stick right on the driver side window and take forever to

[1:10:16] get off I know that my landlord used to do that and it works very

[1:10:20] well the new city and orange can't get that off with Gooby gone or anything

[1:10:24] those things stay on there forever but we'll we'll look at

[1:10:29] seriously we'll look into that whether it's enforcement you know whether it's

[1:10:32] they have to be out there and you know monitoring but it's it is private

[1:10:35] they're going to want their commercial tenants to be right functional and

[1:10:38] usable and yeah I just I I know for a fact this

[1:10:41] has been an issue with anything that's walkable to that train station I

[1:10:48] mean yeah I I I can go quickly over the comments cuz I think um I really only

[1:10:53] commented on kind of architecture and Design

[1:10:56] and then the kind of streetscape landscaping improvements and I think

[1:10:59] we're trying to nail that down before we go deeper into into the other design

[1:11:04] aspects so um I think the main my main two points 1 a and 1 B have kind of been

[1:11:10] touched on um it's really focusing on as it should be I think the focal point of

[1:11:16] this development is the corner right and we're using the Clock Tower and

[1:11:20] everything to make that a focal point but as we've touched on if I'm somebody

[1:11:24] walking towards this building and I see this focal point I can't get to it

[1:11:28] directly I have to kind of maybe go down and like find a way around so I love the

[1:11:32] idea that you guys were adding a little bit of like a pocket park Sculpture Park

[1:11:36] kind of situation there if that could instead be some kind of entryway and

[1:11:40] maybe that's what makes it more of a grand like an entrance like I just think

[1:11:44] that if you're going to if the architecture stays the way it is and you

[1:11:47] are going to highlight that corner there should be a way that should be like the

[1:11:50] entrance to the yes they're looking at the grading and that's being worked into

[1:11:53] the design yeah and so that that just ties into you know the the section in

[1:11:57] the code talking about storefront entrances should be prominent and easily

[1:12:00] um identifiable and I think accessible and that kind of comes into the other

[1:12:04] piece and we ar we talked about this a lot in the in the ARB session so I know

[1:12:08] you're thinking about it but I think that other aspect of storefront

[1:12:13] entrances being prominent and easily identifiable um the heaviness of the

[1:12:18] ground floor architecture with the with the arcade um while an interesting

[1:12:24] architectural feature I think it is making the entrances to the storefronts

[1:12:29] feel a bit recessed and kind of back um so what how would the businesses in

[1:12:35] there be identified how would people know you know like that maybe it's

[1:12:37] signage maybe it's kind of lighter whatever but I feel like that section of

[1:12:41] the code talking about these various commercial entrances being clearly

[1:12:46] identifiable I think that's getting a loss a little bit behind the heavy brick

[1:12:50] so that was one of my comments there um material color shall complement the

[1:12:56] historic buildings of the block so I think we talked about this a little bit

[1:12:58] too of there's a few different architectural features in here but I

[1:13:02] focus on the brick and the color of the brick that I think you know what's what

[1:13:06] we typically see is kind of material boards and maybe this will happen once

[1:13:08] we get a little bit further down but like a material board so we can see

[1:13:11] exactly what the color of this brick is going to be and kind of see it in

[1:13:14] comparison with the sample of the metal or the glass aspects of it just so we

[1:13:19] can yeah that'll be ra will definitely bring that to ARB see that and then the

[1:13:23] fourth piece while it doesn't necessarily tie Direct directly to a

[1:13:25] section of the code this was talked about in the ARB um work session so the

[1:13:30] code and I see what you're trying to do here cuz the code does say right in the

[1:13:34] linkage District larger buildings have to incorporate significant breaks and

[1:13:38] like play in the facade to try and break it up so I see that's what you're trying

[1:13:42] to do with the difference of materials and pushing in and pushing out and I

[1:13:46] think my one comment is that right now it feels like there it's a little bit um

[1:13:52] it's a little bit overwhelming that there's maybe too much of that and I

[1:13:55] think maybe we so maybe we corrected we overcorrected to try and add that

[1:13:59] variation I think what we talked a lot about in the ARB session was

[1:14:04] establishing a little bit more of a consistent Rhythm so that people can

[1:14:07] kind of Follow that along I think you can still keep a lot of the breaks and

[1:14:10] stuff that you're having but um maybe a little bit more of a smooth Rhythm

[1:14:15] between them I think would would help improve that so that was it on the

[1:14:18] architecture piece for now um the streetcape I know I keep having comments

[1:14:24] about The Pedestrian clearway and kind of cross-sections and now I'm realizing

[1:14:28] maybe cross-sections aren't the best way to get at it um your renderings are

[1:14:33] really nice right and very detailed and so maybe once the architectural there's

[1:14:38] just some key points because of the change of grade of this site um that

[1:14:43] you're working with that I think there's key points where we're really going to

[1:14:45] want to zoom in and see what it feels like to be a pedestrian on that sidewalk

[1:14:51] there you know it's like maybe where the Gap is where you're doing that like the

[1:14:54] Landscaping bio like what you know give us a sense of what that looks like um

[1:14:59] maybe in one of the renderings I think this corner this front corner piece is

[1:15:02] one of those other sections so you gave us those two cross-sections that you've

[1:15:06] kind of been giving us the whole time um and I you know I still feel like it's

[1:15:12] kind of difficult to I know the site varies a lot throughout that so it's

[1:15:16] still a little bit hard to kind of feel what the pedestrian's going to feel and

[1:15:19] I think you can maybe do that with some of your the really great renderings that

[1:15:22] you do as this kind of evolves so like and connect it with the Landscaping plan

[1:15:27] so that it is actually reflective of what the Landscaping plan is and then I

[1:15:31] think that I think that's the maybe the better way to get that across and then

[1:15:35] the one aspect I just want to try I I know we clarified now and there is no

[1:15:39] trees there's no trees in the street transition zone right they're now we

[1:15:44] what we're what's being retained just so the board knows is that existing kind of

[1:15:48] decorative um it's like a decorative brick 3ft wide area is what's being

[1:15:54] retained if go back to the Landscaping plan I think that's where we see it the

[1:15:58] best there um so there's no longer any I think

[1:16:03] previously we had maybe been showing in the cross-section that there was going

[1:16:06] to be trees in the street transition zone like in between the walkway the

[1:16:10] sidewalk and the street and that's now kind of been eliminated and the

[1:16:13] Landscaping is pushed up against the building um so maybe we could talk about

[1:16:17] that because I think there was a lot of value in having a vertical separation

[1:16:21] between The Pedestrian clearway um the code doesn't allow the planning board to

[1:16:25] require Street trees every 30 to 40 ft there um so maybe we could hear a little

[1:16:30] bit about the limitations that you're working with there

[1:16:34] um and I think I think that's it for like my main my main

[1:16:38] comments right now yeah okay do you want me to touch on

[1:16:43] that yes okay uh Justin dates uh KY engineering design so just for

[1:16:51] um uh context uh the grade change from 90 on beakman down to High Street it's

[1:16:58] about 25 ft right so from Top intersection all the way down you know

[1:17:04] that's that's the Delta between the the grade so what we're trying to do with

[1:17:08] you know establishing um you know the the long uh alignment of the building

[1:17:13] along each of these there's about 8 ft of of grade change across each face of

[1:17:18] the building all right so that's why um what we're trying to do is um

[1:17:25] uh focus our our access points right now where we have it's kind of mid building

[1:17:29] you know right where you would come in you could go straight ahead to get

[1:17:32] access to the residential units you would you would uh Branch right or left

[1:17:36] to get to the uh the commercial access so what it does is is it creates

[1:17:41] situations or these triangular areas between the back of current sidewalk and

[1:17:47] the face of the building where we're trying to make up we're doing

[1:17:51] transitions right we're doing transitions of grade um because one is

[1:17:56] going you know down towards the building the other would be going up so we're

[1:18:00] using those uh and Landscaping in there to to um access that area and make up

[1:18:06] the the uh the change in grade we're doing that in in various ways with

[1:18:09] different plant species uh um mostly native uh to the uh to the region and

[1:18:16] sorry do you mean visually like you're using the plants to like kind of contain

[1:18:21] continue the play of the floor so no more so in an instance where the

[1:18:27] sidewalk is up high and we're coming down we're planting out that area

[1:18:32] because of the grade change and it's not simply going from the sidewalk and

[1:18:36] walking directly into the building right we have we that's how we're compensating

[1:18:41] for 8 ft of change across the building face right so that's why it is it's not

[1:18:48] simply just access right off of the back of the sidewalk throughout the whole

[1:18:51] arcade there um but the the the plant materials

[1:18:56] there shrubs and we um and we do have some um smaller deciduous uh narrow uh

[1:19:03] columnar horn beam if you've heard of them we're using that to give more

[1:19:07] vertical um and in my opinion it's it's it's it's a uh maturity and size of that

[1:19:14] plant fits within the space that we have in those areas uh similarly on the High

[1:19:19] Street Building we're doing the same thing so um with that building we're

[1:19:23] maintaining that kind of brick accent along the back of the curb and then the

[1:19:27] full width of the sidewalk and then we have those horn beams in um tree grates

[1:19:33] right so again that building as you go down beakman right the exposure of of uh

[1:19:39] that uh finished Flor below the arcade you know grows so we're using that again

[1:19:44] as as you know vertical vertical uh vegetation to break up that as well as a

[1:19:49] h Roll Along the the bottom again just trying to you know soften um whatever

[1:19:54] the final building facade material is uh in both those those uh those

[1:19:59] instances so typically the the street transition area as mentioned is where

[1:20:05] you would most uh where the code talks about putting Street

[1:20:11] trees um as a landscape architect I've put them further away I feel that

[1:20:18] there's more benefit um to putting them in the areas that we talked about for

[1:20:23] the beakman building and and then um the couple that were in the uh tree grades

[1:20:27] down at the High Street Building the Gap that we have in between the two

[1:20:31] buildings you know we're also proposing to put Street trees uh behind the

[1:20:36] sidewalk again because there's there's more um real estate there's more um uh

[1:20:43] planting bed area there that I feel that it's a more sustainable location for

[1:20:49] these trees if we're going to try to cram them into that small area between

[1:20:53] the building and the sidewalk I think it's detrimental to their health and the

[1:20:58] stress of those plants um so I think our proposal is not

[1:21:03] to have them in that transition area but move them further away um where I think

[1:21:08] we have a better uh sustainability of the landscaping for the for those areas

[1:21:13] are you describing what you're showing or or what you want to do no that's

[1:21:17] what's on that's what's on the plan okay yep could we have um Street trees in the

[1:21:22] brick area I would I would rather

[1:21:29] not the only reason I would give pause to that is we have a large storm

[1:21:34] drainage line right against that curb line and slightly under that curb line

[1:21:38] uh and I would not want trees on top of that line if we ever have to get in

[1:21:42] there maintain it

[1:21:46] um that could be a big concern especially if the roots start getting

[1:21:49] into those joints of those pipes and MH that makes sense

[1:21:55] just it's a long stretch with no

[1:22:01] shade you might be able to do it further down but I'm looking at the upper

[1:22:05] section being part of a conflict so which are you talking about the the

[1:22:10] beakman building the whole you know the whole walkway from High Street up to

[1:22:16] nine there's not a street tree on a shade tree there's shade trees in

[1:22:21] between the two buildings right but if you're walking on the sidewalk

[1:22:25] from they're directly behind the sidewalk so

[1:22:30] it's I would find that that that does provide shade in that particular area

[1:22:34] there okay that one little one little moment I hope you

[1:22:39] provide a lot of seating right there for we do we do we do have benches along

[1:22:44] that section uh as well just to chime into I know a lot of

[1:22:48] this conversation is going to lead into what ARB review incorporates but there

[1:22:52] were comments I think in Natalie's memorandum too potentially about seating

[1:22:54] areas benches and the like so there's a lot of that like the sort of final

[1:22:59] pieces that go into the this that will also encourage that as you go along if

[1:23:03] you needed that additional shade I mean I think that if we can look at the

[1:23:07] utility plan and find any place to put you know Street trees for shading the

[1:23:13] sidewalk that would be um important understood I think related to that

[1:23:18] comment and this has actually like specifically stated in the code that the

[1:23:21] Department of Public Works has these um um uh Street sections for this that came

[1:23:28] out of the linkage plan and it what the code says is something like that they

[1:23:34] can request that those be added so I I don't don't want to make you guys have

[1:23:37] to have a conversation with another department or division but it might just

[1:23:41] I mean to your point as well in terms of the drainage and everything that it

[1:23:44] might be beneficial to schedule that conversation as well I know dpw's

[1:23:49] psyched for us to not so they don't have to mow anymore but well I think the

[1:23:53] administrators as well because they I know he's been looking at implementation

[1:23:56] of the linkage plan you know of the linkage plan so it might just be good to

[1:24:00] coordinate on that and see what the improvements are that are being thought

[1:24:04] of or discussed

[1:24:12] there John so I just have a few minor comments

[1:24:18] as they've discussed they did update the infiltration study that they had

[1:24:22] performed before um it does show no connection into the sanitary Source

[1:24:27] system um I would like to see an elevation from or one of the elevation

[1:24:33] or views I should say from further up on High Street from the residents up above

[1:24:38] what are they going to be looking at here coming from the other side I mean

[1:24:42] we're doing views from across the road on beakman um looking up beakman but

[1:24:49] nobody's given any thought to anybody on High Street and further up on High

[1:24:54] Street what are these residents that live there now going to be looking at um

[1:25:00] the other thing is with regards to the change in the

[1:25:04] parking code um every eight spaces you're supposed to have a tree within

[1:25:10] the parking space so you're going to have to take a look at maybe modifying

[1:25:14] your parking layout slightly to account for that okay we do have the the

[1:25:20] required amount adjacent to the uh to the parking areas they just

[1:25:24] I I think the intent of the code is really to break it up first before we

[1:25:28] start shifting it and I think it allows the planning board to make that decision

[1:25:34] which way we're going to

[1:25:39] go yeah I can I mean I I remember I brought that up on a different project

[1:25:43] and I believe the the board had allowed it to be perimeter rather than

[1:25:48] necessarily Islands within the um within the lot I do agree that the intent is

[1:25:55] obviously to break up the land the asphalt right that is the intent but I

[1:25:58] think there's prent of the board allowing just take a look at it Justin

[1:26:03] take a look at it and see I mean it would be nice to break up some of these

[1:26:08] large areas with a grass Island um in the tree I understand you know there

[1:26:13] might be constraints some areas due to utilities due to whatever it may be um

[1:26:20] but I think you can break some of it up and at least try

[1:26:32] there that's it okay sorry Rand I I agree with you on as far as for the

[1:26:38] views it would be interesting to see it from a couple different other angles to

[1:26:42] really get an idea of what this really looks

[1:26:45] like it's it would really be interesting anyway me just go around the

[1:26:50] board any oh one thing and Rea if there's any any units on the roofs make

[1:26:57] sure they're in the views yeah that I was just going to ask

[1:27:01] that some some questions every go um I don't have any more comments I think

[1:27:08] that um there was a lot discussed in the ARB

[1:27:12] on Monday so um I feel like I'll yeah this was just an update Reserve until

[1:27:19] next MH yes same yeah I had

[1:27:24] just because we were talking about the landscaping and it has a we hadn't

[1:27:27] talked about it as much in the RB um one thing I'll say about is like park

[1:27:32] benches there's a bench at the um uh Mount Beacon access Park that Scenic HUD

[1:27:39] Hudson did right as you're going up 90 right um and with the light there and

[1:27:45] it's this bench and you're just looking at down the road and all these cars are

[1:27:49] just zooming as fast as they can right up at you it's not very comfortable or

[1:27:54] relaxing place to sit right some people do it for convenience or whatever and

[1:27:57] there's no other place to sit so this is a fairly busy road right so I wouldn't

[1:28:03] put if I was going to put benches in I would try to put them in that little

[1:28:07] landscaped area in between the buildings right off to the side facing each other

[1:28:11] in like a little culde saac that was a little bit more rather than exposed in

[1:28:15] the high you know next to you cars aren't that pretty anymore you don't

[1:28:20] want to just watch Cars you know uh and just think think about that sort of

[1:28:25] aspect of it and I totally agree that like breaking up there's opportunities

[1:28:28] to break up the uh parking and keep it shaded to keep the heat down in the city

[1:28:33] and uh uh the U uh I really want to encourage the

[1:28:40] entrance um uh Landscaping to be part of the

[1:28:45] architecture and it be integrated because right now there's this Tower and

[1:28:49] there's kind of what looks like a um afterthought of great

[1:28:54] and planting and it looks like it's just like a lot of

[1:29:01] um a missed opportunity you might say I'll tell you certainly missed

[1:29:07] opportunity if we can't get it to work but ultimately we are working all those

[1:29:10] into design you've seen it it's evolving those were first renderings these all

[1:29:14] come together we listen to your comments we put it into the lab and it comes back

[1:29:17] out so I I have total faith in your guy's ability to do this and we're going

[1:29:22] to keep an eye on it and uh we expect the best efforts out of you guys because

[1:29:27] it's really

[1:29:29] important stilling like this okay I just two two thoughts right are um bikes bike

[1:29:37] parking bike rack somewhere with because it's it's kind

[1:29:42] of bike racks

[1:29:49] but for the record back of the building but we can work to more more on the

[1:29:53] sides that that and um just for the RB what be also kind of interesting is from

[1:29:58] our standpoint for those members who are on it some even though it's a work in

[1:30:02] progress to kind of get an idea of what you guys are thinking so that we don't

[1:30:06] accidentally become redundant with respect to that even if it's a a simple

[1:30:11] summary of thoughts because that way we're not pling yeah I think we'll try

[1:30:15] and do an ARB meeting before our next submission so that we can try and work

[1:30:18] that that narrative or I know it's it's a mov Target we recorded it and I can

[1:30:24] get a transfer from that and I'll like that would be helpful cuz that way

[1:30:28] we're kind of at the same page and I think said was summarized really the the

[1:30:33] general tone of what we were talking about not everything you don't want to

[1:30:37] recreate the entire conversation we had but I tried to capture the I tried to

[1:30:41] capture the bigger pieces I think um um in there but I think yeah I I'll get to

[1:30:47] it it would just be helpful for us for everyone to keep kind of we're all in

[1:30:51] the same Pace yeah thank you we appreciate and embrace this opportunity

[1:30:55] thank you I appreciate it thank

[1:31:00] you well um s interview is that I'm sorry we need

[1:31:07] to move to adjourn close the meeting just close

[1:31:12] the yeah keep this open I think I'm afraid well motion to uh motion to

[1:31:19] adjourn the meeting second second all in favor I hi hi all right thank you

[1:31:27] everybody for another you are the master of short meetings I don't know you just

[1:31:32] have good

Beacon Planning Board 10 8 24

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