[0:00] Thank you. Mr. Floor has anything.

[0:02] Just thank you to the team and budget, Francine and Gordon for pulling that all together and commissioners for your comments and feedbacks.

[0:09] We can, like said, move forward and bring some things back to you. Thank you.

[0:12] There's an open.

[0:13] I do have a comment. That's why I remind of you.

[0:16] I have an answer to your question that you raised and it's right off of the property of Fraser's webpage.

[0:23] It says homeowners continue to receive the homestead exemption as well as save our homes cap.

[0:27] as long as they don't claim home-study exemption elsewhere on a different

[0:32] lot until they are while they rebuild and repair their damage property.

[0:37] And there's a statutory reference.

[0:39] Okay, but does it go on to talk about once they've rebuilt?

[0:45] It does.

[0:47] It's all on his, the front page of his web page.

[0:49] It depends on how many, the percentage of the new building that's built.

[0:54] So it's all posted online.

[0:56] Very good.

[0:57] It's different if it's a repair versus a rebuild.

[1:02] Right, right, gotcha, thank you.

[1:05] Commissioner Doigt, any comments?

[1:06] Commissioner Drex?

[1:07] I have no comments, Commissioner Constance.

[1:08] Nothing, sir.

[1:09] Commissioner Doigt.

[1:09] Just good workshop.

[1:11] Good news on the reserves.

[1:13] Thank you.

[1:13] Yep, absolutely.

[1:14] Okay, I will go in ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the 230 Charlotte County Board of

[1:24] Missioners board workshop on transportation left the record show all commissioners are still present and

[1:30] Mr. Elias will you be

[1:32] pledge. Oh, we're gonna do the pledge again. This talk. Okay. Yes

[1:39] I'm pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it says one nation

[1:48] Invisible liberty and justice for all you can never say the pledge enough

[1:56] Mr. Elias, you're a recognized good

[2:03] afternoon commission for the record John Elias Public Works Director will be

[2:07] I'll be co-presenting this with the county engineer, Joanne Vernon. We're kind of excited about this.

[2:12] This is based on feedback that we've gotten from previous discussions with the board and Emily and administration thought that this would be a perfect opportunity to kind of kick these off and we'll do this quarterly.

[2:23] We'll have all things transportation and we can bring back anything that we get feedback or any hot topic

[2:29] We can bring it up during these discussions. So again, what we're going to be talking about today is just an overarching view of transportation

[2:37] Pretty pretty high level, but it will provide some detail and it'll also I think

[2:43] Hopefully lay out some strategies that we that we're employing and let the public know how we do these things and how they come to fruition

[2:50] And so with that, I'm kicking off with transportation.

[2:54] We're going to discuss data collection and analysis, concurrency and widening projects, intersection

[2:59] improvements, and current projects and budgets.

[3:03] The first thing I would like to discuss is what we're calling roadway functional classifications.

[3:09] This is the process when streets and highways are grouped in the classes or systems, according

[3:13] to the characteristics or service they provide.

[3:16] The Florida Department of Transportation is who conducts this and they do it about

[3:19] ten years right after the census.

[3:24] The functional classifications of roadway consists of these two

[3:27] categories with the urban roadway and rural roadways having very similar classifications. Principal

[3:33] arterial, minor arterial, major collector, minor collector and local.

[3:41] As we get into this,

[3:42] we're going to provide some maps, and I want to just say that if you're the public and you're

[3:46] watching us, all the backup material has these maps, and they have blown up maps that are

[3:53] We didn't want to have so many slides, but you'll see in these maps too.

[3:57] So arterial roadways, the arterial roadway system serves as the highest degree of

[4:01] through traffic movement and the largest proportion of total travel.

[4:04] Think interstate highway systems.

[4:06] Arturials generally have higher design standards, larger lane widths and needs.

[4:11] Also, because they move that much traffic, when one gets down like it does yesterday,

[4:16] you see the effects on all the arterial and collector roads throughout the county.

[4:21] Collecter roadways are typically designed for travel at lower speeds and for shorter distances.

[4:26] Usually two lane roads that collect and distribute traffic to and from the arterial system,

[4:31] minor collectors can connect two major collector roadways and local roads.

[4:36] All roads below the collector system are considered local.

[4:40] Local roads provide the basic access between residential properties and collectors.

[4:46] Local roads represent the largest percentage of all roadways in terms of mileage.

[4:49] These are just your neighborhood road roads in front of your house.

[4:56] This map here illustrates the classification of the roadways that we have in our county.

[5:01] And again, we have this blown out in the back up material zoomed in on each portion of the county.

[5:09] With that, I'm going to turn it over to Joanne and she's going to talk about some of the data that we collect.

[5:15] Good afternoon, Joanne, for the record.

[5:17] We just wanted to kind of give you some input as to what goes into our planning process and engineering.

[5:23] So, we do some annual data collection.

[5:26] We conduct traffic counts once per year on all of our collector roads.

[5:31] And we do this in segments because not all segments of any given roadway

[5:36] will have the same amount of traffic.

[5:40] We also do them on some.

[5:42] If you can see we do it on 417-776.

[5:45] Those are state roads.

[5:46] We do that just so we have a better understanding of where the traffic

[5:50] going in the county with our own data. This is a map of and with the lists in that, yeah,

[6:00] the table there. But again, these are in your background information and they are blown

[6:05] up so you can tell a little better. Next we're going to go into roadway level service. It's

[6:12] not the typical level service, so I want to make sure everyone understands. This is a qualitative

[6:18] that describes the operating condition of a road based on traffic volume, link capacity, and geometric

[6:24] design of the road. So it basically is how full the road is.

[6:27] Yeah, Commissioner.

[6:29] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I need you to back up a little bit.

[6:32] I'll talk about classification.

[6:34] I just want to kind of spend a little time on that.

[6:39] Maybe the whole category.

[6:41] I understand you, which said every 10 years, FDOT looks at the system and defines whether

[6:49] they move from minor collector to major collector, arterial, whatever.

[6:57] It all kind of boils down to funding.

[6:59] This is where I'm headed.

[7:01] The classification is so critical as to where the revenues are going to come from to take care

[7:08] that particular road. 40 something years ago, what we did annually, is check all the roads

[7:16] that we were suspicious were going from a local road classification, which is probably

[7:22] somewhere under 10,000, 80, you know, average annual daily traffic.

[7:29] Once it hit 10,000, it jumped into our collector road status.

[7:33] Not, it became a road and bird road, yes, that's right.

[7:36] So, what do we do now relative to, what triggers it to go from a local street to a collector

[7:44] road?

[7:45] So, I should have mentioned it.

[7:47] When I went and said we did collections on all of our collector roads, we do an additional

[7:52] account on some of those roads exactly what you're talking about.

[7:55] We see a district, we see a district traffic, and we have input, when FDOT does this, we

[8:01] have input and we have said to them, hey, let's look at this road, here's our numbers that

[8:06] we're getting should this not be a collector road.

[8:09] So we do provide input to DOT at the time when they're doing their process.

[8:17] I guess what I'm trying to head to is that looking at the revenues for gas taxes, they're

[8:22] not looking very good, what can we do relative to changing the methodology for this?

[8:30] Because, I think, quite honestly, we've got within neighborhoods, and I can identify certain roads in D-create as an example, that might be maintained now under the road and bridge, or gas tax funding, that might be better off being classified as a, I'm going to call it a local collector as opposed to an FDOT collector, which would be funded then out of the MSVU system.

[8:54] D-create is exactly.

[8:56] Was Anglewood East Gulf Stream?

[9:00] Gulf Stream?

[9:01] Which is very sunny, bro, it's been a curve.

[9:02] Maybe you're funding now, their gas tax road.

[9:05] Some of them are.

[9:06] So what?

[9:07] Because we're such, so challenge with the revenues and gas taxes commissioners,

[9:10] I'm just trying to think of a way to do some shifting on that.

[9:13] That's all.

[9:14] So if I could speak to that.

[9:15] So to your very point,

[9:18] there's this little clause in the ordinance,

[9:20] which was weird when I first got in this position.

[9:22] Basically, Joanne or I can classify a road as a road and bridge road.

[9:27] No other determination, like it's that.

[9:31] So what's happened over the years?

[9:33] And we started to take a deep dive into this.

[9:35] I'm going to say two years before I got this job.

[9:38] We were like, hey, let's look at this because the funding was coming in so flat on road and bridge roads.

[9:44] And Gordon's made some adjustments that really helped us on that.

[9:47] But what was happening is we had roads that just get put into a road and bridge classification.

[9:51] and nobody, like, looked at it, I can sailor's way over there between 776, it comes up, oh yeah,

[9:58] that's a road and bridge road.

[10:00] It's like, and it's just kind of weird, but it does connect, it does connect to two major roads.

[10:06] Yeah, there was some logic to it, but when we started to get on this route, at the time, the fun

[10:12] was so restricted that our concern was that we were going to add more to the inventory and possibly

[10:18] take some off, but the reality is, we didn't have the funding, it was so flat that it wouldn't

[10:23] have made sense to do that.

[10:24] So are you an agreement, though, that if, in fact, we can look at classification on some

[10:30] of these rows that are currently classified as collector roads, road and bridge roads,

[10:34] gas tax roads, but might be able to be shifted into a local collector category as opposed

[10:41] to an FDOT classification.

[10:44] I don't know if you can do that.

[10:45] We're in complete agreement on that.

[10:47] to take them off that load for gas taxes.

[10:50] Yes, for sure.

[10:51] But further to your point,

[10:52] and we've had this discussion previously,

[10:55] where we look at roads like,

[10:57] just if you live in Port Charlotte,

[10:59] you got Dorchester, Kensington,

[11:01] Beacon, all those roads, Orlando, Santa.

[11:05] Yeah, quesada.

[11:06] All those roads are collectors,

[11:09] but in theory, they're not necessarily,

[11:12] but we're taking counts on them in monitor,

[11:14] but they're what I would call a local collect.

[11:17] that's what we would be funded by an MSPU, possibly as opposed to Chris, but they're currently

[11:22] maintained by a guy.

[11:24] Some of them.

[11:24] Some of them aren't.

[11:25] Some of them aren't.

[11:26] Sorry, Commissioner.

[11:28] That's where I'm heading though, is there's a revenue problem with the road and bridge, right?

[11:32] So can we solve that somehow?

[11:34] A roadway classification.

[11:35] Well, and again, Gordon would that shift to take some of the stuff that we were charging

[11:40] out of that and he's made a several adjustments to help us with that, but I still don't

[11:44] think that it's going to end up having what we can add a bunch of roads.

[11:47] under the road and bridge. That's what I was feeling. Thank you very much.

[11:51] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[11:54] To the revenue side, there is discussion in Washington about figuring out a way to

[12:01] tax electric vehicles where we don't get the gas tax now. So I don't think it's going

[12:06] to happen this year, but we should keep our eye on that language to see what it says to

[12:11] require. You know, we have to have in place to be able to collect that.

[12:16] What are requirements going to be?

[12:18] Because there may be something totally different

[12:19] that maybe we need more collector roads

[12:21] or maybe I don't know.

[12:23] The interesting thing is it relates to electric vehicles.

[12:26] You're seeing a big shift in FDOD design standards.

[12:29] They're having a reevaluate guardrail systems.

[12:31] They're much heavier and lower.

[12:33] And they sweep right through guardrails with it.

[12:35] We're historically stopping cars.

[12:37] So they're having to look at all those type of things.

[12:39] Virges too.

[12:40] Virges too.

[12:41] We'll be having two guardrails.

[12:43] Yeah, yeah.

[12:44] Let's go ahead.

[12:44] You guys can be more proactive in setting your definitions and we've done that.

[12:53] One of the examples I think was Cornelius, Cornelius was becoming like a local collector

[12:59] because we had trucks taking a little bit of a shortcut going from 776 to 41 or from 41 to 776.

[13:09] And then we change that in response to the neighbors, we change that, and we put no more trucks.

[13:18] Now, does that change the definition of the road?

[13:21] Or is that, you know, that could be part of our plan until the area builds out heavily,

[13:26] and then the traffic is going to automatically increase.

[13:29] But how do you approach that pragmatically?

[13:32] So I think that's what this, the beauty of what these presentations are going to do.

[13:36] We're going to kind of talk about all that on high level and then we can get into the

[13:40] weeds in future topics about like, hey, how we're going to address this.

[13:43] So you take the example you gave Cornelius, was one Biscayne Chamberlain, Zeml, all those

[13:49] roads over time become kind of like major roads to get you through areas.

[13:53] So all that we have to look at.

[13:55] And Commissioner Dordi had brought this up at a previous meeting.

[13:59] And the challenge we have, the huge challenge we have besides the funding, which we kind

[14:05] to touch on is that our whole areas you can see in this map is plated and laid out.

[14:10] Now, GD did think of areas where they have like harbor boulevard, where you got those

[14:15] hundred foot, hundred, twenty foot rightaways, sand hill, places like that where the premise

[14:21] was probably like, hey, this is going to be something that we can expand in the future.

[14:25] But the vast majority of the county is a local road and unless you're going in to buy swallows

[14:31] of houses to expand a road, that's the challenge we're impacted by right now.

[14:35] But you guys, you have to be on the top of your game because things are going to change.

[14:41] And a major road project, and we know this, whether we're looking at Edgewater, or whether we're

[14:46] hovering, you know, major road changes take a lot of years.

[14:51] Right now we should be looking on the drawing board at widening Harbour Boulevard from 41.

[15:00] Now, just to edgeward all the way, the beach complex, because in what three, four, five years, the beach complex is going to be rebuilt and barring another major hurricane.

[15:11] It's going to be up and running, and with a new full and with a new center that the community is going to be using, and we can straighten out a few curves.

[15:19] But if we want to see that happen in 10 years, we have to start it now. So you sort of need a crystal ball. And I'll take, and I think I may have said this well, an MPO meeting.

[15:29] not here. The access road on 41 is not going to be there in 25 years. We all know that.

[15:37] At some point, that's going to be gone. You know, put to the court, it's got a problem. What

[15:41] happens on the traffic gets over the bridge, and we've talked about something so that too.

[15:46] But so I don't know how you keep ahead of it other than traffic counts and looking at new

[15:52] developments. So Commissioner, to first off respond, we are definitely on our game. We're going

[15:57] present that in this presentation and we're going to kind of walk through why how we plan

[16:02] it.

[16:03] What steps we take in the plan and then the challenge you all have is balancing the funding

[16:08] of 200, 300 million dollars worth of road projects versus fire stations, parks and utilities

[16:14] stuff.

[16:15] So that's literally what this presentation will walk through.

[16:18] We're not putting a toll both.

[16:19] I told you from one of the roads also in the place.

[16:23] Do we cover this up?

[16:30] Yeah.

[16:30] OK, so back to roadway level service.

[16:33] So again, the roadway level service really boils down

[16:36] to how full the road is.

[16:38] And the level service of a facility of a roadway

[16:41] is designated with the letter of A to F,

[16:43] with A representing the best and F being the worst.

[16:46] This is a national standard.

[16:49] Ironically, DOT really only for the most part

[16:52] does C and D and I'll explain that in a bit.

[16:56] Charlotte County adopted the level service D,

[16:58] and staff uses the FDOT methods that determine the level of service.

[17:02] We do this for both the current level of service and for projecting

[17:05] for failure level of service roadway segments.

[17:10] This, I know this is hard to read and I apologize again.

[17:14] This is a list of all the roads where we collect the data.

[17:18] This is in your packet.

[17:20] I just want to blow it up enough to maybe be able to see.

[17:23] So we collect the raw data on all these road segments.

[17:26] And then there's a fun calculation that you do to get the average annual daily trip.

[17:34] And then from there, there's another calculation you do to get the peak hour and that's when you go by.

[17:39] And then from the peak hour of every segment, you look and see what you get for the level C,

[17:46] or the level of service C and level of service D.

[17:49] And you can determine where you are in your cycle.

[17:55] So here we also give a percentage of capacity for each roadway of that peak hour.

[18:02] Now, because DOT basically only does level service C&D, most of our roadways are actually

[18:09] better than C, but if you look, they say level C. It's a sub-memic sense.

[18:15] So they're basically saying, if it's better than C, you're in good shape, why even be concerned

[18:21] about it.

[18:23] So, we did want to mention that roadways may temporarily fall below a doctor level service.

[18:29] Traffic patterns could change into various reasons.

[18:32] A good example is when we did edge water, the roadway was closed for several years.

[18:36] That traffic had to go somewhere else.

[18:38] And during that time, midway had a lot more traffic than it currently sees now.

[18:45] Again, segments of roadways can fall below the level of service.

[18:49] They're not all the same, which is why we do segments.

[18:50] And that's an example of Edgewater completely.

[18:53] We've done them in phases.

[18:56] It's not all done at once.

[18:58] And the last thing is just because of Roeway Falls,

[19:00] below a Dr. Level Service immediately,

[19:03] what doesn't mean we have to take action.

[19:04] It's a planning tool.

[19:07] And we don't just look at that completely.

[19:09] We kind of look at that over a couple of years

[19:11] to make sure there was nothing else going on

[19:12] at the time that maybe we collected the data

[19:15] and we plan accordingly.

[19:18] Why do we look at projected roadway of services?

[19:22] So how we do this is, projects are done based on the current level of service and then a calculation with the projection factor.

[19:28] The projection factor is different based on the area where the roadway is.

[19:34] For example, right now, burnt store road.

[19:37] We all know there's a bunch of developments going there.

[19:40] So that projection factor is way higher than in other areas of the county.

[19:44] We evaluate the projected level service yearly to make sure that as market change, if you remember, at one point,

[19:52] Brent Saw Road is going to fail a long time ago, and then the market crashed, that expanded the life of the roadway further.

[20:01] So we keep looking at it to make sure. When we do these projected levels of service, this is how we get the information to put on our CNA.

[20:09] So it goes on the CNA based on projections and then we still keep an eye on it and keep an eye on it and then as we get closer and we have a better understanding than it gets on our CIP.

[20:21] So currently, Charlotte County has two roadway segments that fall below the adoptive level service.

[20:27] It's King's Highway between San Hill and the Soto County line and San Hill between King's Highway Deep Creek and we currently have projects where they're under design and we'll go to construction on these.

[20:39] We also have seven roadways segments that are projected to fail in the next 15 years.

[20:47] It's edge water between midway and calling swim.

[20:50] Edge water between calling swim 76.

[20:53] Harborview, phase one and phase two.

[20:57] In 2030, Bert's sort of road is projected to fail.

[21:00] This is when we bring on the East West connector.

[21:02] That will alleviate the traffic on Brent's sort of road.

[21:06] But then it will again fail in 2040 and that's only six-lane it and Taylor wrote a

[21:11] projected to fail in 2034.

[21:14] So,

[21:16] so before we move on to intersection improvements just to touch on this.

[21:20] So what you see by the data that we collect, we are looking at all those things to your point

[21:25] commissioner do it and we're looking at projections and adding that into the mix.

[21:30] Something that commissioner to say it said previously and I'm not trying to be like,

[21:33] I just want to manage the public's expectation here is that if you've lived here in a

[21:38] amount of time, I've worked for the county for 36 years, lived here since 83, it's never

[21:44] going to be like it was in the 80s, it's never going to be like it's in the 90s and yesterday

[21:50] is a prime example, when there's an accident on the interstate and all that traffic gets pushed,

[21:54] our people are scrambling to get signal timings open so that it prioritizes veterans and 41 in

[21:59] areas, but traffic is worse than it's ever been and it's only going to get more congestion

[22:06] as we move forward. So that's why it's important that we're taking the time to look at

[22:11] this data and build these roadways ahead of it. And I say ahead of it, probably incorrectly,

[22:17] because that's another thing I want to touch on. Commissioner that you had mentioned that we

[22:22] need to be thinking ahead, we're definitely thinking ahead. But if we think too far ahead,

[22:27] the challenge that we have as an agency and specifically with us is we don't want to try to

[22:32] build a road ahead of development. That seems like somebody would be like hey, the reality is

[22:37] you're putting the burden on the people that live here to build the road instead of having the

[22:40] development that's going to impact it pay for those things. So it's a balance and then further you're

[22:46] going to see further in the presentation. The other element that comes into play here is funding.

[22:51] You just talk, the roads we're talking about just on this page right here, well, probably

[22:56] in excess of $300 million.

[22:58] So there's significant funding challenges that come with this.

[23:01] And again, striking the balance of when it's, when we can do it versus how we're funding

[23:07] it and making the development that's impacting it, do impact these pay first up.

[23:11] The other thing that I want to just come back and stress on one more time is, again, with

[23:16] the way that we're laid out.

[23:17] And I always use this example, where my daughter lives in North Carolina, it's has the same population

[23:24] explosion that we're experiencing here, but there's nothing planet, so planned developments come in

[23:30] and they build these major corridors between everything, shopping centers and all that. We're

[23:35] settled with the developed and you mentioned it in the last presentation. We have all these undeveloped

[23:38] lots and as they infill, unless we're buying up those lots and just planning major roads to them,

[23:44] we can't we can't put roads where there's already planned houses unless we're planning on

[23:48] buying houses. So that is that is another challenge that we face as a community with the

[23:52] way this community was planted. So I just wanted to stress that.

[23:56] Yeah, I had a question for you, John. A lot of these on this slide, I mean, a lot of these things

[24:01] were addressing. So I mean, which is the good news isn't the hopper. I mean, we're pulling

[24:05] together funding sources. This was before my time, but Burnstore Road, this six-lane. I'm going

[24:13] I guess that that's coming out of the existing median and you've already provided for stormwater.

[24:18] So, Commissioner to your point, that's what we want to illustrate with these slides, is the

[24:23] roads that are in failure, we've already got projects planned for, the roads that are in

[24:27] eminent failure, we've got projects that are already in queue and to your point when we built

[24:31] burnt store, we literally designed it so that the lanes can be built within and the stormwater

[24:37] is already addressed and it can just be added to the existing template.

[24:39] You know, talking about saving tens of millions of dollars, that's huge.

[24:44] That's good to hear.

[24:45] Thank you, sir.

[24:48] Okay.

[24:49] So next, the other thing that we review and plan for intersection improvements.

[24:54] So intersections are study for a variety of reasons.

[24:57] And the studies that I'm talking about are studies that we do based on regular traffic

[25:02] or the inflow, not the same studies that this developments do as they come in

[25:07] and have to provide improvements based on their own development impacts.

[25:14] So why do we do this?

[25:15] We do this when we see traffic volumes increase and crash volumes increase

[25:19] or we get complaints from citizens.

[25:23] What goes into it?

[25:24] We collect some data.

[25:26] We do traffic counts, turning motions, crashes, how many and what type

[25:31] and pedestrian and bicycle movements.

[25:34] And then we analyze the data.

[25:35] These standard transportation engineering practices and FDOC guidelines and out of that will come recommendations some of the recommendations may be nothing

[25:43] needed at the time or

[25:45] recommendations of

[25:47] Whatever might come out of it. I also did want to mention that staff is looking into AI software

[25:52] To help with this planning and alternatives. It's come a long way

[25:56] We're not sure it's completely there yet, but we'd but it we'd like everything where the data is all inputted

[26:03] It's all in one place, and they spit out some recommendations that we can look into and see if it's viable.

[26:10] Just as an example, though, some of the software that we're already utilizing is, in the day, when you had a personal analyzing and intersection, it was a physical person sitting there and taking counts and turn movements and what types of vehicles.

[26:22] We have software now in cameras that analyze all that, give you pedestrian movements, what's happening, and it spits that into a category.

[26:29] The stuff we're talking about is for future is even stuff like intersections that are doing real-time micro adjustments to stuff

[26:36] And again, the technologies there, but we don't want to be the cutting edge of it

[26:41] We want to make sure that it works for us and we're managing it appropriately

[26:45] Can you make me come?

[26:47] Yes, yes, thank you, Mr. Chair

[26:49] I agree. I'm never a bleeding edge person, but I am a leading edge person and I got to tell you this is the one area where I believe we need to be leaning in

[26:58] We really do because I'm a victim of bad traffic light timing of just I see problems all the time

[27:08] I'm you know, I don't like to bother you. I you know when I do I always like tell Hector I'm bothering John again

[27:14] But I just think it's important, you know, the five of us drive around and you're staff driver

[27:19] When you start seeing things, you know, reporting back. We have to be the eyes and ears

[27:24] But there's got to be a better way, and five years ago, or more, because when we were doing

[27:31] MCORES, which went nowhere, we did have a lot of really good people weighing in on the technology

[27:39] and stuff that they were doing back then, I mean, it absolutely, now what's going on, that

[27:46] pales and comparison to what is now available that we've gotten into this AI stuff.

[27:51] So, and we've seen all kinds of interesting things talk about pedestrians and pedestrian tracking and vehicle tracking and all the stuff that can be done on the law enforcement side.

[28:02] So, it's so sophisticated now that I really think, again, we should be leaning in to try to figure out, especially for hotspots.

[28:13] You know, talking about sandhill and King's Highway and 75 in those areas up there, a better job has to be done.

[28:20] I mean, I guess the volumes are so high, you can just, at certain points, just do timing,

[28:25] because you're never going to have a death of vehicles, but there's other things on 41,

[28:31] where we're doing those timing changes, where we hit night hours,

[28:36] where I just think we could be doing a better job with sensors, showing and anticipating,

[28:41] and setting it up so that there are, you know, movements of cars coming through where you don't

[28:47] allow the side card to trip just yet on demand until the bulk of cars comes through and then you can

[28:54] trip a whole bunch of them because there's no cars coming. Let all that's, you know, so we're not

[28:58] doing that. We're not taking advantage of it. And it just thinks that that's something that would

[29:02] improve quality of life. Commissioner, we couldn't, I couldn't agree more. Some of the challenges

[29:06] that are making sure that FDOT is on board with the program because a lot of those

[29:10] intersection you're talking about are FEOT controlled through.

[29:12] The other element to that is,

[29:18] I was at my office over here around the corner just for

[29:21] pre-agenda and I had to get over here and I'm like, I should have plenty of time.

[29:25] I got this in the intersection and there's a person sitting between both lanes.

[29:28] It's not sure whether they're going to go and just went through a cycle of lights waiting

[29:31] to figure out where he was going to go.

[29:33] Well, I'm going to go back losing my mind.

[29:36] So there's always going to be the element that the human factors can put a wrench in

[29:42] pedestrian movements, talking with chief about emergency priority vehicles, that can

[29:48] be that concept things up, but I couldn't agree more of the other challenge that we've

[29:52] had that just seems like we keep getting beat down is hurricanes require all new equipment

[29:57] and then making sure that the equipment...

[30:00] And when we do get this new technology, it's inevitable as the equipment we have, where if there

[30:04] is a power surge, it's ugly, the lights go in flash, but they automatically reset themselves

[30:08] and with the new technology, a lot of it's more sensitive, so we want to make sure that

[30:12] that stuff works appropriately. Sorry, but we couldn't agree with you more.

[30:15] I appreciate it. So I mean, if you can, as options come forward, sort of stay in touch with

[30:22] us, and even I may bring this up on the 31st at the MPO meeting, as I think, to your point,

[30:28] FDOT needs to be aware that we're ready to be sort of a little more on the leading edge here.

[30:34] Just if it's out there, we don't mind being in the test case if they want to try some stuff out.

[30:39] So, thank you.

[30:40] Thank you.

[30:40] Mr. Rooker,

[30:44] I think we have to keep on FDOT to keep up the signification.

[30:50] It should be changed, for example, on 41 for weekends.

[30:54] And, you know, the three or four bad locations we keep talking about,

[30:58] and they back up and, you know, and I can mention them, but you've heard them a lot

[31:03] of where there is forest Nelson and 41, or whether it's copper or 776 in Flamingo.

[31:09] I mean, that lights like two and a half minutes. When you make the turn in Flamingo straight,

[31:14] it's red. It's going to still be red, but if I need to write down the road, you know,

[31:19] so, but I think we have to keep afloat. And the other question I have, it's a challenge and I

[31:25] I wonder how you can do this also by signification perhaps.

[31:29] Do we make any adjustments in your planning for the fact

[31:35] that we have intensity of traffic on our roads,

[31:40] various, for example?

[31:42] It's pretty not bad driver around here between the end of May

[31:46] and the end of August, driving is pretty not really bad at all.

[31:51] Do we try to consider that and make any adjustments

[31:54] and what we do for the snowboard traffic.

[31:57] In short, of course we do, for sure.

[31:59] The other thing I would just like to touch on

[32:01] is in the one you bring up was like,

[32:02] Flamingo, again, contingent

[32:06] of hung where you're coming from,

[32:08] as you're approaching 776,

[32:09] you're like, I've waited two and a half minutes

[32:11] for this light.

[32:12] If you're on 776, you're one in the movement

[32:15] on 776 to be the priority over the singular road

[32:18] off Flamingo coming off of it.

[32:20] So it's striking that balance to get traffic moving,

[32:22] but to not hold traffic up on the major quarter.

[32:24] but the light, a cauldron, with traffic heading west, controls that and if somehow they could talk

[32:31] to each other, when there is, because I've sat there many times and there's like no traffic

[32:37] and the light's still red, the same as far as Nelson.

[32:40] And when the schools get out, for example, you know, they have the Christian school up

[32:44] at far as Nelson and Crossella.

[32:46] So, and I've been there on occasion, you know, and this 1015 cars waiting to get on to 41

[32:53] And you'll look and see, maybe one or two cars are going by, I'm 41.

[32:58] And it's pressure to, you know, with the intelligence we have now.

[33:02] We can gather that material.

[33:04] And lastly, you know, we talk about our automated cars.

[33:10] We've been talking about this for a while, maybe not moving as quickly as we think is.

[33:14] How is that, how do you work that in, in future planning, and how do you deal with that

[33:19] when we really don't know what's happening?

[33:22] We're not diving into the automated cars in this presentation, but I will say that you'd

[33:28] be surprised that data that we collect, that we get from cars that the cars are already

[33:34] talking with the equipment that we have, so that that stuff is already built in the cars

[33:38] right now, and it only gets more advanced as time goes by.

[33:44] Well speaking of 776, the turn lanes can't get installed fast enough at the stadium.

[33:49] it is, it is a mess during game time and on another note if I'm observing what I think I'm

[33:57] observing, we're going to have new signalizations, well at least the state will, to coordinate

[34:02] in front of Sunseek. I saw one foundation for a master arm go in in front of Sunseek or

[34:08] they're working on the other one today across the street, so that's going to come online,

[34:12] sit very shortly. And if you all remember, we have a study that we're going to be doing between

[34:16] I went in the bridge and it'll probably be set coming up here in the next couple months.

[34:20] I'll be on the way.

[34:21] Thanks.

[34:24] Okay.

[34:24] So this is just an example of a map.

[34:27] This was actually done as part of the MPO initiative that they got a grant for safe for all grant.

[34:36] And included in your packet, it wasn't just automobiles.

[34:39] There was one for motorcycles, pedestrians, and bicycles, but as much as I hate this map.

[34:46] It also is a good show and a visual of where we can see where the issues are and helps us with our data collection.

[34:57] So how do we prioritize intersection improvements?

[35:00] We do that by traffic volumes.

[35:02] We want to move traffic as much as possible.

[35:04] Crash data.

[35:05] We want to keep people safe as possible.

[35:08] We, of course, we have to look at the funding.

[35:09] And then we also take into account policy changes and FDOT design standards, changes, that just

[35:16] means that DOT obviously sometimes they change their design standards and that may change

[35:22] what we do to an intersection, but also they may have policy changes on how they interpret

[35:28] some of the data and that helps us in our process.

[35:32] This is our priority list for intersection improvements that is currently in our CIP, so it is for the next six years.

[35:46] And then I have one more thing to talk about before I hand it over to Gordon for the budget.

[35:50] Go back to that slide.

[35:52] I thought on the priority list we had veterans at Norman Turnling. We also had an archive.

[36:00] That may not be in the next six years. I'll go double check on that.

[36:05] I thought that would be out of the, I will double tell you in the conclusion.

[36:11] Yeah, I know, but this was being our cut, too.

[36:13] I'll double tell you.

[36:14] Yeah, that's what I was questioning, thank you.

[36:17] If I can, before we get into the, I'll let go of joint touch on this, but the other thing

[36:22] I want to touch on with intersections,

[36:25] we hear the public when they're saying, hey, we

[36:27] need intersection here, the thing that we want to impress upon folks, we know that you

[36:35] You hear this all the time how many people are going to have to get injured before we build an intersection

[36:38] We're we're looking way ahead of intersections and we don't base it on how many people are getting hurt

[36:43] The reality is if you look at that heat map people get hurt at signalized intersections every day

[36:48] So that's another thing that if we want people to understand that it that there are like against the roundabouts for example

[36:55] Roundabouts whether you like a marheadum the data supports that you don't have the tea bone collisions that are much higher injury rates

[37:03] They're glancing blows

[37:04] So, a lot of the diverging diamond intersections that you're seeing, that freak people out,

[37:10] the reality is the data supports that.

[37:11] It moves traffic and it makes accidents less critical.

[37:15] Thank you.

[37:16] One thing I think needs to be on here is Toledo Blade at 41, and going southbound.

[37:29] We really need to have, I mean, I guess I haven't gotten caught there yet, but it seems

[37:34] like that traffic backs up considerably when people are going left turn, and that single

[37:39] arrow is not going to be enough in the, you know, in the very near future, I think, and

[37:44] then what the problem is is to take over real estate, you're going to have to cannibalize

[37:50] that median with those big trees in there, but we're going to have to do something because

[37:55] we certainly have plenty of accepting lane way to put two turn lanes, and I think that's

[38:02] to be in the calculus, and it really should be something that we're...

[38:05] I believe that's being looked at currently, so we are analyzing that now, so...

[38:10] I mean, I know Toledo Blades is going to get improved for lanes, finally, but that Northern

[38:15] side is not going to be part of the requirement of the developer, and it needs to be done independently

[38:23] because that Northern portion of the geometry for that intersection isn't really going to have

[38:28] bearing on what's happening to the south. And most of the southern term portion coming up into

[38:33] 41 seems to already be fairly correct. I have to go back and look at it again, but it seems

[38:40] like there's plenty of capacity to get out of there once the lanes are set to be foreland at

[38:46] that area there. I'm eager to agree with you, but I want to confirm we're talking about the

[38:50] same place. Toledo blade, if you're coming on a north board coming on to 41 that singular lane

[38:54] It stacks way.

[38:56] Yes, sir.

[38:56] That's way back.

[38:57] There's just no way there's going to be different.

[38:59] Yeah.

[38:59] It definitely.

[39:00] It's a nice, long lane.

[39:02] But it'll stack.

[39:03] But you're going to wait for signals and we can probably be more efficient in moving those

[39:06] cars through because it's plenty to accept.

[39:09] And it's in a three lane roadway.

[39:11] Thank you.

[39:11] Speaking of it, it's a little blade on the portion that the developers responsible for.

[39:17] Is he using what standards is he using and since that's a county road, do we get

[39:23] put to say we want to see double lanes here. We want to see this. We've met with the previous set

[39:30] up. We kind of had a rough plan set up and we work with you. We're working, yes, we're working with them.

[39:37] We can say and we can require what their development and what current standards are.

[39:42] And I don't know what that is, but I can't remember off the top of my head, but I can definitely

[39:47] want to make sure we take a real close look at that because now's the time to do it, not have

[39:52] something go in and we realize, oh geez, we should have just made these adjustments to the geometry.

[39:58] One hundred percent.

[40:03] Will that come back to the board?

[40:05] Well, the final road design for Toledo Blade.

[40:11] No, typically doesn't.

[40:13] Not the way it's being done.

[40:16] Well, if you can, if the board doesn't object, I mean, I'd like to at least through a one-on-one session once that you're working on that.

[40:23] I want to see what's being proposed, so I can at least comment to staff on any feedback, yeah, thank you very much.

[40:31] Okay.

[40:33] So we have had some interests in several developers out in the burnt store area where they are considering building the road.

[40:43] The East West connector for impact fee credits.

[40:47] If we were to consider this we would need to start the design as soon as possible.

[40:52] That would be to meet their timelines right now there in some of them are a little further along and others

[40:58] But some of them are just starting design some of them are starting construction

[41:00] But in order for them to be at the same time when they're out there doing construction. We would need to start design as soon as possible

[41:07] We've considered this multiple ways

[41:10] We think it would be beneficial to the county because

[41:14] They could do it faster cheaper than we can and they would just use their impact fee credits

[41:20] which we would be using to build a road later, but we also looked at as what if it didn't

[41:25] work out.

[41:26] What if we did this and we moved up the design and then it didn't work out.

[41:30] We feel that the only thing we'd be out is moving those design costs up because we would

[41:35] have to start design in two years anyway in order to move through this process and we could

[41:42] use the design and just build it in 30 if that doesn't work.

[41:47] So we would like you to consider moving up the design costs of the East West connector and

[41:52] let us start on that design now.

[41:54] Do we have an impact fee credit coordinator here in Nader?

[41:58] Yeah, coordinator.

[41:59] Typically, when you issue impact fee credits, or somebody at the county level who would coordinate

[42:04] of somebody, if they wanted to sell those to another party at some point, they come in and

[42:10] somebody is keeping track of the credits and it's coordinated with-

[42:13] I'm not sure if we have that.

[42:15] But that would be done in, there would be agreements that would be done.

[42:20] We were just in the very preliminary stages of this.

[42:23] We just wanted to kind of get it started.

[42:25] And then we could work through the process with them.

[42:27] And that would all have come for the board.

[42:29] Yeah, I don't know if we could give direction today,

[42:31] but I would certainly support looking at impact fee credits

[42:36] for the road.

[42:37] I have some experience with that down in Lee County.

[42:39] It's a very successful program.

[42:41] And it really expedited a lot of jobs

[42:44] to your point at a great savings to the county and you're letting the private sector handle it.

[42:49] And what's in it for us will maybe there's some design costs, but also just managing the

[42:54] impact fee credits.

[42:55] Commissioner Dora, you're in the case here.

[42:56] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Why not do a developer's agreement that includes there?

[43:01] They're doing the design permitting and construction.

[43:04] We can ask them when we had talked about it before.

[43:07] Their preference was that we would be their preference, but what I'm saying is we could know

[43:13] I have seen that done and years and years ago. It is very successful Mr. Chairman. It's

[43:22] pipe lining the dollars to something we need done, especially with the East West connector

[43:26] being something that's not that far down the road.

[43:29] So to speak. So I mean, I'd be interested if they're interested in doing the whole package.

[43:36] Let me put it that way. Perfect.

[43:38] Thank you.

[43:38] Yeah, I would say nobody's in the queue so I'll jump in again.

[43:42] Most developers look at it, number one, it's an expedited way to bring value to their property precisely and get their projects online quicker.

[43:51] So, you know, it's definitely incentive for them to move on this stuff.

[43:55] And that's my experience with it.

[43:57] You know, that's why they look for these credits because they'll jump on it and bring instant value to their property.

[44:04] So, it's a win-win.

[44:05] Mr. Chair, if I get on, I just got a reminder we do have an impact the administrator in the community development, so they try to get it soon.

[44:15] Okay, thank you. Great.

[44:17] Sounds like we have some of the infrastructure in place.

[44:19] No pun intended.

[44:21] So, let's be.

[44:28] Good afternoon, Commissioner.

[44:29] It's Rick Arthur, musical services.

[44:31] I'm just bringing back slides you've actually already seen.

[44:34] Gordon went through these with you in a workshop back in November.

[44:36] What we did is we updated the cost based on the updated amounts that were added through the C&A process, so.

[44:47] Indices.

[44:49] Yes, yeah, that's the other thing.

[44:51] So when we're looking back at the slides,

[44:53] they're not all of them that we presented last time had the correct info in the inflationary amount to include in the how.

[45:00] So this is all updated. This should match what you saw back in February at the CNA workshop. And we just really wanted to highlight again. You guys have some great discussion in November around this and the shortfall that we have here. The shortfall's grown. So I'll just get to you. You've got your expenses here for edge water, harbor view, and the east west connector. And then you've got the revenues here. And so when you line up, particularly edge water and harbor view,

[45:30] Here's where it's showing you the shore falls growing from I think it was 60 million at the time that we looked at it before now

[45:35] It's up to 90 million. So we wanted to provide you that update

[45:39] Additionally, we wanted to let you know

[45:43] hilltop securities is got to work on

[45:48] Substrategy some financing strategies and they're actually going to bring some suggestions back to the finance committee meeting. That's scheduled for March

[45:56] 26

[45:58] And talk about, you know, what might be some options, bindings probably not going to be the best,

[46:03] but maybe some other options that won't be so restrictive on us, where we might be able

[46:10] to take those impact fee revenues that we're seeing out in the out-years here and use that

[46:16] as a funding source to repay some kind of debt instrument.

[46:20] So just wanted to give you update on that, show you where we're at, where it stands now,

[46:24] the shortfall and let you know that we've got our financial consultants working on it now to bring

[46:30] back some options at that finance committee meeting.

[46:36] Any questions? That's all I had.

[46:38] You had one more slide, South County. Oh, yeah, okay. So this this just shows the where we are

[46:42] out with that east-west connector, which I think this is the project that they were referring to.

[46:48] So we've got a shortfall here as well, but maybe that impact be credit might be a

[46:54] good option for that. Thank you sir. All right. No questions. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right.

[47:02] We're that brings us two comments. It's like deja vu all over again Mr. Flores.

[47:07] None at this time. Thank you. This is no. I don't have anything. Thank you.

[47:10] I'll start to my right commissioner Dori. I'll set sir. Thank you.

[47:13] Commissioner Constance. Well, do we want to talk about Washington or you want to wait till Tuesday?

[47:19] Tuesday. Okay. And when is the next finance committee meeting?

[47:27] March 26th, Wednesday March 26th, I think it's that like 8 a.m., okay 9 a.m., give me one

[47:33] second I'll tell you exactly.

[47:39] 8 a.m., or if you want to say this. Thank you very much, thanks.

[47:42] Okay, we should do X. Missionary Doitch.

[47:45] And I have nothing. We've completed our agenda gentleman. This meeting is adjourned.

Charlotte County Board of County Commissioners Workshop

Agenda

Transcript