[0:01] Please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly hereafter for scheduled and on-demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device. If anyone else is recording the meeting, including the use of AI note-taking apps, please notify the chair.

[0:21] Pursuant to Governor Healy's March 28, 2025 signing of Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2025

[0:28] extending certain COVID-19 measures adopted during the State of Emergency, suspending

[0:35] certain provisions of the Open Meeting Law, General Law Chapter 30A Section 20, until June

[0:43] June 30, 2027, this meeting of the Chatham Community Preservation Committee is being conducted

[0:49] in person and via remote participation.

[0:53] Every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings

[0:59] as provided for in the order.

[1:01] A reminder that persons who would like to listen to this meeting while in progress may do so

[1:07] by calling the phone number 1508-945-4410, conference ID 36398-820 hashtag or join the meeting

[1:22] online via Microsoft Teams through the link on the posted agenda.

[1:27] We will post a record of this meeting on the town website as soon as possible.

[1:33] All right. We'll move now to the agenda. First item on the agenda is the roll call. Start

[1:42] with that. Art Spru. Are you there, Art President? Where are you, Art? I'm still in Florida.

[1:53] Oh, Art. I think you should have a meeting there. I'm stuck here for another two-and-a-half

[2:01] days or art okay Alan Maurer you and Florida oh he's here Bruce Bean I am also present

[2:10] okay Nancy Barr here Darren Latin present and Ryan I thought she would be online could be

[2:20] yes she couldn't make it yeah and Ryan Epson for the present maybe she'll show up David

[2:30] and Gary Tennyson present okay next item is approval of the minutes from our CPC meeting

[2:40] on November 3, 2025.

[2:42] I move we approve.

[2:45] Yeah, the second second.

[2:47] All in approval.

[2:49] All in favor say aye.

[2:51] Aye.

[2:52] All right.

[2:53] Where is our minute taker?

[2:55] I think Don told me that...

[2:58] She's online.

[2:59] She's online and that she can always get this from the video

[3:03] in order to put together the minutes.

[3:05] You do a very good job, Don, and we appreciate it.

[3:12] All right.

[3:12] Oh, she's got a thumbs up.

[3:18] All right.

[3:19] Next item on the agenda is review of progress reports,

[3:22] reports, final reports and any closures.

[3:26] Megan, do we have any more reports?

[3:30] No, new reports or closures.

[3:32] I think there may have been some more expenditures.

[3:38] Okay, well that's good.

[3:39] Yes.

[3:40] Somebody's doing something so they're expending their funds

[3:43] and not sitting on them.

[3:46] I should note that I was invited.

[3:48] I guess as the chair of the CPC to the

[3:50] You call it a roof raising or a roof putting on the Nickerson barn over the weekend.

[3:59] That went well.

[4:00] One of our projects is hopefully reaching the end point, and that the 1700s barn will

[4:10] soon be on—well, it is already on—the Nickerson Association property, but should soon

[4:19] be open for operations. Very interesting to see the work that they've been doing with

[4:26] the, not just the old materials, but you also using the same techniques that were used

[4:33] in the 1700s in order to put that back together.

[4:41] Next on our agenda is an update on the revenues

[4:45] and reserves that we have for use this year? And he news there, Megan?

[4:55] The only thing that has changed is that we officially received all the money

[5:02] from the state this week. That is the amount is in there.

[5:06] If I did not reprint out the previous document that showed what was available, but I can fill you in if you need numbers.

[5:20] And that was, that's the money we already spent.

[5:23] Correct?

[5:25] Are we already approved?

[5:26] Yes.

[5:26] That's the number 26.

[5:28] Yes, 42026, all right.

[5:32] Looking at the revenues that we have for this year,

[5:38] looks like we have a total of $2,558,657.

[5:46] However, we should note that of that, 560,000

[5:54] is restricted for open space and recreation.

[5:58] That's the 418 that we have in reserve,

[6:02] and the 142 that we will put into open space reserve

[6:07] is one of the first items presented to the town meeting.

[6:14] So that means that we only have about $2 million

[6:20] available for the community housing

[6:24] and historic preservation categories and we have close to $3 million in applications

[6:34] $2,887 I think something like that so clearly we're not going to be able to provide funding

[6:43] for all of the applications that we've received and we'll have to deal with that later in

[6:52] year and set some priorities.

[6:58] Anybody else have comments about ones available?

[7:04] All right,

[7:05] then we'll move on. So today, we're going to have the opportunity to discuss two of the

[7:13] applications that we've received. Both of them from the Chatham Conservation Foundation

[7:20] and Lauren Aquamono is here to present these and I might note that I'm on the board just for

[7:37] full disclosure of the Chattam Conservation Foundation. So over to you, Lauren, if you're ready.

[7:47] Hello. I'm Lauren Aquamono, the Executive Director of the Chattam Conservation Foundation.

[7:52] So we have submitted two proposals to the committee.

[8:00] One for an installation of an ADA accessible trail at the Millpond Overlook.

[8:07] And the second is for continued work at the Trust Fish Creek Restoration Project.

[8:15] Would you like me to start with one or the other, or how would you like me to do this?

[8:19] Why don't you start with the milk pond overlook and let me just mention before you do that

[8:25] that I received an email this morning, that's why I didn't send it out to everybody.

[8:31] From Robert Lear, who's the chairman of the Chatham Committee on Disabilities.

[8:38] And he wanted to inform us that his committee will be submitting a letter of endorsement for

[8:48] the Millpond Overlook project, which is an ADA compatible project. So, that letter will

[8:57] be coming in soon.

[9:04] So, why don't you do Millpond Overlook first, Lauren?

[9:06] Terrific. So, I'm passing around just an overhead view of the Millpond Overlook trail. This

[9:13] This is a trail that we began working on and opened in 2022.

[9:22] It's over right behind the Atwood House Museum and it's a lovely wooded trail that's

[9:31] seen a lot of great use.

[9:33] But it is not in any way shape or form accessible to people who have mobility impairments.

[9:40] So our goal is to expand the parking area adjacent to the Mill, to the Outwood House Museum.

[9:49] And clear number of acres of invasive species and install an ADA accessible trail that will have native species.

[10:01] It will have a beautiful view of the Milpond as well as a couple of sitting areas and that is our goal.

[10:15] Any questions?

[10:21] In reading the background on your application, it said there's going to be a parking area for about six cars.

[10:29] I don't see where that's delineated on the map here.

[10:32] Okay, so just above, can you see where the Atwoodhouse Museum is all the way on the left hand of the page?

[10:38] So you can see their parking area there.

[10:41] That gray rectangle, that's right in the middle of the left hand side.

[10:47] So our goal is to expand that into our property.

[10:51] So it will add additional spaces that will also be able to be used by the Atwoodhouse.

[10:58] Okay, and the trail, the handicap accessible trail will start there and connect with our

[11:04] other trail and go over to the top middle of the property under where it says biodiversity.

[11:11] That trail will end in a little viewing area over there.

[11:21] So the accessible trail will not go all the way to the end?

[11:28] That's yet to be determined, but we don't think that the grade will allow us to go that far.

[11:37] So the elevation there at one point becomes very steep and until we get estimates on the installation, we will not be able to determine that.

[11:53] But there will be a view from from over if you look in the center under where it says biodiversity that area is all invasives and that will be cleared and there's there's a beautiful view from there down to the nil pond overlooking the the marsh there.

[12:15] Bruce, what are the primary invasives you're hoping to eliminate?

[12:21] So, we have Japanese knotweed, we have bittersweet, we have honey, suckle, the usual suspects,

[12:32] yes.

[12:33] Yeah.

[12:34] And that one in the center rectangle in the middle of the page, that's almost all in

[12:38] daisves.

[12:39] And all behind the outward house museum is all in daisves.

[12:43] Is a large percentage of it the knotweed?

[12:45] I don't know how much of that's not weed, yeah, it's just, it's just a, it's a mess.

[12:53] That weed is particularly hard to, yeah, and it usually takes about three years.

[13:00] So this is a, do you have a timeline of what you're thinking as far as when you can create

[13:06] this path?

[13:07] Okay, so most of the construction will happen during the time that the Outwood House is closed.

[13:11] So they're close from October 15th to about May, so we're limited because the only access

[13:18] to the property is through their driveway, through their parking lot. So the first year,

[13:25] it would be removing invasives and grading and then the second year would be installing

[13:31] the ADA compliant pathway. And then you'll do the native planting after say three years.

[13:43] The data planning will start as soon as we get the invasive out of there.

[13:47] So little by little, and it's an ongoing project.

[13:51] Yeah.

[13:52] Because it does, it takes, they say, three years to get rid of the invasive.

[13:56] Um, the way you can do it in one is to just pave it with plastic and leave the plastic there for three years.

[14:07] True.

[14:07] We use a lot of, a lot of different methodology we employ.

[14:10] So yeah, I just I deal with this every month. Yeah, that's why I'm asking. Yeah, it's it will always be a work in progress. So, but our goal would be to have it open by 2027.

[14:24] Is this going to be done with your own staff or through contracting or some combination of both?

[14:31] It will be a combination of both, primarily the large work, the grading, the removal and

[14:36] the evasives that will all be done by contractors because it is a large area that has to be done.

[14:42] And we have private family foundations as well as, sorry, as well as money in the CCF budget

[14:55] to apply to this.

[14:56] So we're looking for some matching plans.

[15:01] Art, you have any comments? Questions? Yes, the $125,000 request that's just for the accessible path portion of your project. That is correct. That is the estimate that we received within the past month of how much that would be. Correct. Okay, and I assume you have to still file with, you know, concom and other boards for

[15:31] or any kind of approvals on this, is that correct?

[15:36] That is correct.

[15:38] Okay, that's all I have,

[15:43] Dave.

[15:44] So you're gonna add on to the existing parking lot?

[15:47] That's correct.

[15:49] So the path is not written out in this map.

[15:54] It is not on this map.

[15:55] No, the projected path, as we hope for it to be,

[16:00] again, we need to wait until we have an engineer

[16:02] in there to give us a final design is to extend the parking lot and start the path there

[16:09] and behind the Atwood House Museum, how to connect behind the Atwood House, come down

[16:17] towards the Milpon and then go over behind that area in the middle of the page.

[16:25] That's where they're in that square.

[16:27] That square, correct.

[16:31] Atwood House is all on board, would this?

[16:33] The Outward House has provided us with a letter of support and has the chamber, and I'll

[16:39] be meeting again with the Outward House board next week or two to go over a final proposal.

[16:50] Okay. I noticed that on the front page you say the total cost is 650,000, and on the, I

[16:59] This is the third Earth page.

[17:03] You say total estimated cost is 233,000.

[17:08] That 233 just represents the project

[17:12] of installing the path and removing

[17:15] and basives in that particular area.

[17:17] OK.

[17:22] Anyone else?

[17:25] Thank you for that review.

[17:28] And we'll move on to Frostfish Creek.

[17:31] Frostfish Creek.

[17:33] Mike just added that this is another one where CPA funding got it started and it turned out to be a much bigger project than originally anticipated.

[17:48] As Gary correctly notes the CPC granted us $75,000 back in 2021.

[17:55] We began investigating this restoration back in 2018 when we hired APCC to provide us with an assessment of this area.

[18:05] The Frostfish Creek is just a wonderful ecosystem and what we've learned is that there's a lot that needs to be done over there.

[18:14] So in 2022, our partners included the Department of Ecological Restoration and the town and the

[18:26] natural resources, the Cape Cod Conservation District as well as the Natural Resources Conservation

[18:35] Service.

[18:36] So this has grown from a very small, let's see what we can do to improve the ecosystem to an

[18:42] absolute all-hands-on-board project that is looking to restore tidal flow to Frostfish Creek.

[18:53] And what we've learned is that there has been no monitoring of the waterway in Frostfish Creek

[18:59] up until three years ago, we'll be starting doing water sampling there on a regular basis and found

[19:05] that the water is severely degraded and there's very little fish or any any fish or plant

[19:17] life in there. So as this has grown we have taken on a lot of responsibilities since most

[19:27] of the land is owned by the foundation we are the lead in this project. So we're really hoping

[19:37] to improve the habitat, improve the water quality, increase the salt marsh resilience. So

[19:47] all the experts are pointing out that this is looking like as sea level rises the inner part of

[19:55] the creek, and the old cranberry bog will be a place for salt, marsh, migration.

[20:01] So providing storm surge mitigation and things of that nature.

[20:07] It's a big project.

[20:09] It's the town is taking the lead on Route 28 where the culverts need to be replaced, but

[20:15] there are two other water structures within the creek.

[20:19] There's a weir and a berm that we are going to be responsible for removing.

[20:24] And obviously other types of mitigation and planting eventually at some point I may be before you ask for a boardwalk through there because the sea level rises are trail through there will be inundated with water.

[20:40] So any

[20:48] questions?

[20:51] Yeah, you have any estimate of how much the current trail is used.

[21:01] It's a pretty popular place.

[21:03] I don't know exactly, but two years ago we did a first day hike there and I had over

[21:09] a hundred people come out on New Year's Day.

[21:12] So there seems to be people there on a daily basis and we know the kids from the middle school

[21:17] do use it for school projects, which is really great.

[21:21] we get out there with them to do writing projects and science projects would it be safe to say that

[21:27] it's kind of the premier trail of the I think it's my favorite but out of all of our trails I would

[21:34] say it offers a lot of diversity it's an amazing place to see waterfowl in the winter and other bird

[21:42] life all summer long so it's it really has a lot of potential it's currently very beautiful what's

[21:50] going to happen when it becomes saline? Well what will happen hopefully for us

[22:02] fish will return there.

[22:07] Same thing's going to happen there that happen at

[22:10] Muddy Creek, right? To a degree but I don't think we're going to see as an

[22:14] extreme die-off of the hardwood trees along the banks there. Right now there's a

[22:21] lot of fragmites in there. So we'll say we don't know yet. We're still doing lots of

[22:29] hydrological and hydrant dynamic modeling and so there's just a lot of work that needs

[22:37] to be done before final decisions are made in terms of the design of the culvert, the

[22:42] size of the culvert as well as what we're going to do with the two inner title restrictions

[22:51] the the we're and the berm so kind of the

[22:56] need for this particular. Are there plans to take care of the fragmites?

[23:03] That will be all in the planning so yeah just so you know you don't want to ask for

[23:09] boardwalk it would be a catwalk but we're in the process of creating new regulations for it so

[23:18] Fair enough. That'll be many years down the road.

[23:24] We don't know the size of the new culverts now.

[23:29] Because when we made the culverts at Frost, we're having a lot of, what's the word I'm looking for?

[23:42] destruction on the outgoing tide there? Is this going to be a similar problem?

[23:48] This will be a much smaller scale. Right now, there are two undersized culverts like

[23:53] on Route 28. So, no, these are, we're talking, we're very, the tide is seriously restricted

[24:02] there. It's, yeah.

[24:03] Yeah.

[24:04] No.

[24:05] At Money Creek, we have all that dye off as a water quality, a dimension, and so all that.

[24:13] In Money Creek?

[24:14] Yeah.

[24:14] And the water quality is improved in Money Creek.

[24:17] And we have all that dye off.

[24:19] Mm-hmm.

[24:19] Yeah.

[24:20] Just because of the title exchanges is much better, right?

[24:23] Yeah.

[24:23] The level of bacteria at the low level of saturated oxygen in the water is extreme in frost

[24:31] fish Creek.

[24:32] Yeah.

[24:39] So you the foundations have been able to attract this additional funding or?

[24:47] Right. The diagram that I've given you shows you the different funding sources that have

[24:51] flowed into this project since the CPC granted us money in 2021. So over 200,000 in an NRCS grant.

[25:01] Many, you can see there's three different parts of money that came from both the DER,

[25:08] which is the division of ecological restoration and the NRCS.

[25:14] So money is pouring into all of the partners in this project because they see it as a priority project.

[25:24] So even

[25:28] though they all think it's a priority project, we don't have a budget for a priority project or the staffing.

[25:35] So, hence the request for some help here.

[25:41] Art, do you have a comment?

[25:45] Well, I actually don't have any questions, but I note that there was a couple of reports that were referenced in your application.

[25:54] And as a civil engineer, I'd be interested in reading those and just getting some background further on those. Could those be made available?

[26:04] Absolutely. I think Dr. Bob has all of the reports, but we can get them over to this committee. Sure, there's many.

[26:10] So Dr. Bob is the lead still on this project for the town just so you know.

[26:16] Okay. Yeah.

[26:20] Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[26:25] Anyone else?

[26:29] All right. Thank you. We're ever so grateful for the opportunity. And like I said,

[26:33] we have a very small staff and small capacity. So to be able to improve this particular property is

[26:39] really, really beneficial to everybody in town. Thank you. Thank you.

[26:44] All right. So those are the only two applications that we were able to put together a discussion

[26:55] with the applicant on a short notice. We appreciate that. That you could respond quickly.

[27:02] And we'll move on to next item on the agenda, which is discussion of the dates and plans

[27:07] for future meetings and Megan has done a yeoman's job of contacting the applicants and has provided

[27:21] us with a tentative, is it tentative? I think everything is currently set. I think the question is,

[27:37] if you are happy with the flow?

[27:43] Well, I think

[27:45] Penrose is probably going to be the one that has the most discussion.

[27:50] So the fact that it only has one other applicant

[27:56] at the same time is a good thing.

[28:03] It looks to me like that's

[28:06] about as good as we're going to get.

[28:08] Anybody else see Debbie?

[28:10] I thought that Gloria was going to address us regarding strategy for the three applications in terms of the fact that we don't have enough funds for them all.

[28:27] So I believe that on December 1st, she is currently traveling, so not available.

[28:35] She was not available to come today.

[28:36] Well, we'll do that on December 1st before she prevents the affordable housing trust application.

[28:42] Is that how it will work?

[28:44] I think it'll be part of that.

[28:46] I mean, I think my thinking is that we'll discuss the strategy for those three.

[28:55] So she knows that this is what we'd like to have.

[28:58] Okay.

[28:58] Any

[29:05] other issues or questions about the scheduled interviews with the applicants?

[29:15] Could could eventually follow up with an email to me just so with an attachment on those.

[29:22] It's just like it in my calendar.

[29:29] So you didn't see this schedule is that that it aren't?

[29:32] That's correct. I should be available.

[29:35] I don't know what the exact dates are, but I should be available.

[29:38] I don't have any travel plans coming up.

[29:41] Okay, so the dates that are here, December 1st, December 15th and January 5th.

[29:50] I'm good.

[29:52] Okay.

[29:54] Gary, just to note that I will be out of the country on the 5th.

[30:00] So five or six hours ahead. So.

[30:07] You'll be able to call in. Good night. Yeah. I will try. Okay. All right. You'll you'll miss a. Yeah, I know. It's interesting discussion. I guess everybody knows that that the.

[30:30] ZBA. Did they formally approve Main Street? I watched that whole thing and I couldn't

[30:40] quite figure out whether there was an approval. Three people voted yes and what

[30:49] Randy said was they needed three yeses. But then they started talking about

[30:57] Further, I guess the lawyer then came on and said they need to put together the final

[31:03] legal document, and then they will vote again on that final legal document.

[31:10] But I think the point is, it does look like the ZBA is going to approve Ben Rose.

[31:18] When I turned it off, I hadn't seen anything that looked like a deal breaker that they were

[31:24] going to, and we're going to say we can put seven units.

[31:29] Yeah.

[31:30] No, I watched the whole thing, and it sounded like it was basically an approval of Main Street.

[31:34] And if they're going to approve Main Street, it seems like they're going to approve Meeting

[31:40] House because they're a package, and Penrose won't do just one, I don't think.

[31:47] I hope you're right.

[31:54] Anyways.

[31:54] So, I guess the bottom line is that we will most likely have an official application or

[32:07] applications from Penrose to consider on April, I mean, January 5th, and we will discuss

[32:26] We'll discuss it with Gloria on the first, but we'll discuss it with the Penrose applicants on January 5th.

[32:38] If they put in for a...

[32:42] They have submitted an application.

[32:43] I know that, but have they given us a date when they want to come and talk with us?

[32:48] Can we read that?

[32:49] They have.

[32:49] Okay.

[32:53] And they have also presented our projects to Brewster. I think to Harwich and Orleans.

[33:04] Orleans probably, if they haven't already, they will too at Orleans. So it'll be interesting

[33:12] to find out from them how they've made out. I guess they won't know for sure what the

[33:18] town meetings and those other towns are going to do, but they'll they should know by then

[33:22] and what the CPCs in those towns are thinking.

[33:30] They won't know what the CPC in this town is thinking.

[33:34] Until then.

[33:37] All right. Anyone else have a question?

[33:41] I believe the origin of Penrose wanting to do,

[33:48] they did want one, they wanted to do both projects

[33:52] And in the beginning, there wasn't a request for money for each of the projects.

[33:58] The land was supposedly unyielding.

[34:02] Is that correct?

[34:03] Yes.

[34:04] So there's been a real major shift, and the sense that I get with some of the residents

[34:10] that I know is that it's kind of a bait and switch where they, at first they were just

[34:19] happy to get a project of that size. The problem with putting any resistance

[34:28] against their request is that what happens with all this property if they

[34:35] moved on without another if this didn't work out that would be in some

[34:42] some ways more complicated than the fact that we as citizens, taxpayers hope that that

[34:54] Pendros does does well by those two pieces of land.

[34:59] It'll always be considered a little tight in terms of development, you know, the open

[35:08] space or areas like that. But as I drive on 28 going, you know, on 28 going west, you go through

[35:18] the towns like Yarmouth and the huge, huge apartment projects that are, and some of those are,

[35:27] I believe, for different income qualifiers. And these are big projects. I mean, these are big buildings.

[35:34] more than 30 feet tall. I know that they're more than 30 feet tall. So as a small

[35:41] town with not a lot of space I think this is probably going to go through

[35:47] and people will have to accept that the only way you can move forward is to

[35:52] have something that's a compromise in terms of how it looks how it feels. Otherwise

[35:58] We continue to not really have anything available in town.

[36:05] Thank you. That's my two cents worth.

[36:08] You know, I expected.

[36:10] I mean, as soon as I heard that, you know, Penrose had won the bid.

[36:18] Well, I should be phrase that.

[36:20] I expected whoever won the bid was going to come to us,

[36:24] come to the CPC for funding because

[36:28] because all of these developers seem to do that.

[36:32] That seems to be a good thing.

[36:33] So up front.

[36:35] For the other town, they've historically come to us.

[36:39] Yes.

[36:42] Back home.

[36:43] All right.

[36:44] So it's going to be an interesting session on the fifth.

[36:51] There's no other comments.

[36:53] I guess we can adjourn.

[36:54] Have a motion to adjourn.

[36:56] So moved.

[36:56] Second.

[36:57] All in favor say aye.

[36:59] Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi.

[37:15] Hi.

[37:18] Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi.

[37:24] Hi

Community Preservation Committee

Transcript