[4:41] adjourned.

[4:41] Don

[4:43] t fool yourself. I was

[4:45] pointing to you. All right,

[4:46] good evening. I

[4:47] d like to call

[4:49] the MARCH 13, 2025 meeting of

[4:50] the Greenville City Council to

[4:50] order. I

[4:51] m Mayor pj Connolly.

[4:52] I

[4:53] ll be presiding over

[4:53] tonight

[4:55] s meeting. Uh, first, I

[4:57] will call it myself for the

[4:58] invocation, followed by the

[5:00] Pledge of Allegiance. If you

[5:01] join me for a moment of silence.

[5:11] Thank you. Please stand for the

[5:17] Pledge of allegiance. I pledge

[5:20] allegiance to the flag of the

[5:21] United States of America and to

[5:24] the Republic for which it

[5:28] stands one nation with the

[5:33] liberty and justice for all.

[5:34] MADAM Clerk, will you please

[5:37] call the roll? Yes, sir. Mayor

[5:39] Connelly. Here, Mayor Prote

[5:42] Daniels. Council member Foreman

[5:45] here. Council member Blackburn.

[5:48] Councilor Scali here.

[5:49] COUNCILMAN Robinson. Heis here.

[5:51] Mayor Connelly, you have a, a

[5:52] quorum. Thank you very much.

[5:53] Now we move on to the approval

[5:53] of tonight

[5:55] s agenda. MR. Man,

[5:55] there any recommended changes?

[5:56] I have no changes, ma

[5:57] am. All

[5:59] right. Second, all right, most

[5:59] have been made by Councillor

[6:00] Mayor Willis, seconded by

[6:01] Councilor member Scully. All

[6:02] those in favor say aye. I

[6:02] m

[6:04] supposed to say nay. Motion

[6:05] passes 60. Thank you very much.

[6:05] We

[6:07] ll move on to special

[6:18] recognitions. I

[6:18] d like to ask

[6:32] Phyllis House to come forward.

[6:40] Mm Tonight we are here to honor

[6:41] Phyllis in her retirement from

[6:43] the city of Greenville. And I

[6:44] would like to uh to give you a

[6:46] little bit of background about

[6:47] Phyllis and her years here with

[6:49] the city. Prior to joining the

[6:51] city of Greenville, Phyllis

[6:53] dedicated 15 years of her life

[6:55] as a social worker for Pitt

[6:56] County government before

[6:58] deciding to take a step back to

[7:00] focus on her family. She

[7:03] reentered the workforce in

[7:04] NOVEMBER of 2004, taking on a

[7:06] part-time role with the city at

[7:07] the Greenville Aquatics and

[7:10] Fitness Center, where she

[7:10] helped with processing

[7:11] memberships and providing great

[7:15] customer service. In 2010, she

[7:16] was promoted to designated part

[7:18] time as a member coordinator at

[7:20] the Aquatics and Fitness Center,

[7:23] and in JUNE of 2021, she earned

[7:26] a very deserving promotion to

[7:26] full-time staff support

[7:29] specialist 3, where she still

[7:31] handled all memberships and

[7:33] increased membership engagement.

[7:33] Phillips

[7:34] beloved by the

[7:36] members and all of her

[7:37] co-workers at the aquatics and

[7:39] Fitness Center, but she is best

[7:42] known for her cooking, and I

[7:42] m

[7:42] sure it

[7:43] s awesome. She is the

[7:44] The two-time back to back

[7:47] champion of the city

[7:48] s 2023 and

[7:52] 2024, United Way Chili Cookoff,

[7:55] and the 2024 United Way dessert

[7:56] competition. And I

[7:56] m formally

[7:59] invite Phyllis back next year,

[8:00] uh, to defend her titles. And

[8:01] for the longest period of time,

[8:03] we thought it was rigged by a

[8:04] fire rescue, so I know it

[8:05] s

[8:08] gotta be good. Phyllis has

[8:10] truly made a positive impact on

[8:11] many Greenville residents and

[8:14] visitors. We will all MISS Her

[8:15] professionalism, organization,

[8:17] and of course her cooking.

[8:19] Phyllis, we congratulate you on

[8:21] a great career, and we thank

[8:22] you for everything that you

[8:24] have done to make the lives of

[8:25] all those at the Aquatic Center

[8:27] and all over the city of

[8:28] Greenville better. It

[8:29] s because

[8:31] of you that we, that when you

[8:32] represent everything great

[8:33] about this community. Thank you,

[8:53] Phyllis. Now I

[8:54] d like to ask

[9:01] Frank Coghlin to come forward.

[9:13] Uh Right. We are also here

[9:14] tonight to congratulate Frank

[9:16] on his retirement with the city

[9:17] of Greenville. And I do want to

[9:18] give a little bit of background

[9:21] about Frank as well. Frank

[9:22] dedicated 20 years of service

[9:24] to the citizens of Greenville,

[9:26] retiring as an ems specialist

[9:28] with Greenville Fire Rescue.

[9:29] Throughout his career, Frank

[9:31] was renowned for his skills as

[9:32] a paramedic. His ability to

[9:34] teach. And it

[9:35] s not for

[9:38] mentoring new employees. His

[9:39] extensive knowledge and

[9:39] expertise save countless of

[9:43] lives. And is approachable,

[9:44] caring personality left a

[9:45] lasting impression on everyone

[9:47] who worked with him. When Frank

[9:49] showed up at an emergency, his

[9:51] supervisors, peers, and

[9:52] subordinates always felt better

[9:55] having him there. Frank was a

[9:57] beloved figure around the

[9:58] station, always embodying the

[10:01] role of the senior man. Who

[10:02] insured everything ran smoothly.

[10:05] Beyond his professional

[10:06] accomplishments, Frank was also

[10:10] known for his culinary talents,

[10:12] especially his famous Chicago

[10:13] style deep dish pizza, which

[10:14] became a favorite among his

[10:17] colleagues. Frank

[10:17] s retirement

[10:19] marks the end of an era, but

[10:20] his legacy will continue to

[10:22] inspire and impact the lives of

[10:25] those who are fortunate enough

[10:26] to work alongside him. I

[10:26] ve

[10:28] known Frank for a long time.

[10:30] And I can tell you, you will

[10:32] not find a better guy than this

[10:34] right here. And a a better

[10:35] steward of everything great

[10:36] about the city of Greenville

[10:37] and the life that you have

[10:38] impacted in the life that you

[10:40] have saved. We will never be

[10:42] able to thank you enough for

[10:42] all you

[10:43] ve done to for the

[10:44] service of this city. So thank

[10:45] you from on the bottom of my

[10:46] heart, thank you for everything

[10:46] you

[11:08] ve done. I would now like

[11:11] to invite Haley, Stacy. Kevin

[11:12] and Lindsey Yentz, uh, to join

[11:14] me on stage. Along with Chief

[11:45] Deb. I like to give you a

[11:47] little bit of background. About

[11:49] something that happened on

[11:52] FEBRUARY 10th of this year. On

[11:56] FEBRUARY 10, 2025 at 4:59 P.M.

[11:57] Greenville Fire Rescue received

[12:00] a call. For a female in cardiac

[12:02] arrest with cpr in progress at

[12:03] the Murphy Center on the ecu

[12:09] campus. Upon arrival, ems found

[12:11] ecu athletic staff performing

[12:13] bystander cpr and using an aed.

[12:15] The life saving actions of the

[12:17] ecu athletic staff include a

[12:19] high quality cpr and multiple

[12:22] defibrillations with the aed.

[12:24] With their assistance,

[12:26] Greenville Fire Rescue staff

[12:28] continued high quality cpr with

[12:29] advanced life support measures

[12:31] until return of spontaneous

[12:32] circulation was achieved. MS.

[12:34] Yentz It

[12:35] s a testament to the

[12:37] importance of early recognition

[12:40] of sudden cardiac arrest,

[12:42] bystander cpr and aed use. In

[12:43] early activation of the 911

[12:46] system. And That

[12:47] s a lot of

[12:48] technical words to say that we

[12:50] have a living miracle. Uh, on

[12:52] stage here tonight. And I

[12:53] ve,

[12:53] I

[12:54] ve said this over and over

[12:58] over the last couple of weeks.

[12:59] That on that day, GOD laid his

[13:04] hands on you. And also he had

[13:05] the right people there at the

[13:07] right time. Our fire rescue

[13:09] staff and the staff of ecu to

[13:11] also lay their hands on you.

[13:14] And it is a remarkable about

[13:15] how many different ways this

[13:17] could have gone, but I know

[13:17] it

[13:19] s all said and done, that

[13:20] you had the best staff in the

[13:21] whole and Wire world

[13:23] surrounding you at that point

[13:26] in time, and thank GOD above

[13:27] that he had the desire to see

[13:30] you live another day and to

[13:32] fulfill a very healthy life. So

[13:34] at this point in time, I would

[13:37] like to call forward all of

[13:38] those that were instrumental in

[13:40] performing the life saving

[13:41] measures for Haley. And I

[13:41] d

[13:43] like you to please come forward

[13:44] as call out your name if you

[13:44] re

[13:47] here. If athletic staff

[13:50] involved were McKenzie Martin.

[13:52] Rachel Wilkerson. Taylor

[13:57] Lefever. And Nate Clark. From

[13:58] the Greenville Fire Rescue team.

[14:01] We had Jay Knapp. Lieutenant

[14:06] Jim Lewis. Ashton Stewart Zach

[14:11] Price Elizabeth Jackson. Marcus

[14:14] Brown. Battalion Chief Bryant

[14:17] Bedard. Battalion Chief David

[14:20] Brown. And Captain Brandon

[14:38] Lockler. Again, you will not

[14:40] find a better group of

[14:44] individuals. Who every single

[14:47] day dedicate their lives. To uh

[14:48] to serving this community. I

[14:49] say they

[14:50] re the ones that are

[14:51] behind the scenes, you never

[14:52] even know they

[14:53] re there, but I

[14:55] can guarantee this community

[14:56] that they impact every single

[14:58] aspect of your life. And I

[14:58] ll

[15:00] say a prayer for their lives

[15:02] and every all of other students,

[15:03] every single night, because I

[15:03] know they

[15:04] re out there doing

[15:05] everything they can to protect

[15:08] our community. And Haley, I

[15:09] just say thank GOD that he laid

[15:11] his hands on you that day, and

[15:13] I am so proud of the and just

[15:14] thankful for the life that

[15:15] you

[15:16] re gonna have ahead of you.

[15:39] So thank you. I Oh Oh pushing

[16:21] on. I. Yeah Yeah Yes. Ok. A

[16:31] quarter of them. Put up in my

[16:34] car. Two hours. An eye on that.

[16:37] Yeah I know. Wild. Um-hum. I

[16:42] said, All right, we will now

[16:43] open the public comment period.

[16:44] The public comment period is a

[16:45] period reserved for comments by

[16:46] the public, items that were or

[16:48] scheduled to be a subject of a

[16:48] public hearing conducted at the

[16:49] same meeting or another meeting

[16:50] or the same week shall not be

[16:51] discussed. A total of 30

[16:53] minutes is allocated with each

[16:55] individual uh individual being

[16:56] allowed no more than 3 minutes.

[16:57] Individuals who registered with

[16:58] the city clerk to speak will

[16:59] speak in the order registered

[17:01] until the allotted 30 minutes

[17:02] expires. If time remains after

[17:03] all persons who have registered

[17:04] to have spoken, individuals who

[17:06] did not register will have an

[17:07] opportunity to speak until the

[17:08] allotted 30 minutes expires.

[17:10] MADAM Clerk, First speaker? Yes,

[17:12] sir. Our first speaker is MS.

[17:14] Patsy Duke. MISS Duke, you have

[17:15] 3 minutes to address the mayor

[17:27] and council. Yeah How do you

[17:29] wanna. That podium right there,

[17:29] ma

[17:38] am. Hello, my name is Patsy

[17:38] Duke, and I

[17:39] m PRESIDENT Of

[17:42] Relief. Relief is a tree group

[17:44] here in Greenville that you

[17:46] help work with because our

[17:47] group raises money for trees

[17:49] and the city of Greenville

[17:49] s

[17:50] public works department plants

[17:53] them. So we work hard together

[17:55] to make a beautiful green. I

[17:56] m

[17:57] here tonight though to ask for

[18:00] your help on an issue, uh, of

[18:01] trees, more, having more trees

[18:04] in our city. The residents of

[18:05] Greenville would like to see

[18:06] more trees planted in

[18:09] Greenville. And we want to save

[18:12] trees from being cut down. And

[18:13] this opinion is well documented.

[18:16] In the horizon

[18:18] s 2026 plan. And

[18:20] in the results of the udo open

[18:21] houses that were held by

[18:23] Inspire, the city

[18:23] s udo

[18:27] consultant. Right now,

[18:28] Greenville

[18:29] s canopy tree

[18:32] coverage is only 34%. Other

[18:33] cities in North Carolina have

[18:36] more people, more buildings,

[18:39] more concrete, more cars. And

[18:40] yet they enjoy a better tree

[18:44] canopy than we do. Cities like

[18:46] Charlotte, Raleigh, and Durham

[18:49] enjoy a tree canopy of 47, 48,

[18:52] and 52%. Even Wilmington is in

[18:54] better shape than Greenville.

[18:58] Prior to Hurricane Florence.

[18:58] Wilmington had 48% tree canopy

[19:01] coverage. And after the

[19:02] hurricane, it was estimated to

[19:06] be at 41%. But Greenville has

[19:11] 34%. How do these cities do it?

[19:14] These cities have people, more

[19:15] people, more concrete, and more

[19:18] cars. And somehow they managed

[19:21] to have more trees. Well, it

[19:21] s

[19:26] not by accident. They work for

[19:28] They employ urban foresters and

[19:29] arborists to be involved in the

[19:33] planning stages of development.

[19:34] They have ordinances that

[19:34] prevent trees from being cut

[19:38] down. They have ordinances that

[19:41] require tree planting.

[19:43] Sometimes even in new

[19:43] residential developments that

[19:47] are devoid of trees. They

[19:49] inspect to see if the trees of

[19:50] commercial properties are still

[19:52] there. Or if they need to be

[19:56] replanted. They treat their

[19:58] trees as the assets to the

[20:01] community that they are. And

[20:02] many of Greenville

[20:02] s residents

[20:05] would like to see our city work

[20:07] for a greater tree canopy. We

[20:10] need your help. Trees are a

[20:12] valuable resource. And we need

[20:14] to find ways to save the ones

[20:17] we have. To plant them where we

[20:17] don

[20:20] t already have them. And as

[20:22] a member of relief and as a

[20:24] member of our community. I come

[20:26] before you just say. That we

[20:28] would like to work with the

[20:31] city of Greenville to help our

[20:33] city accomplish this goal of a

[20:36] greener ring. Thank you. Thank

[20:36] you. Thank you, MS. She

[20:37] s good.

[20:41] That was around. She

[20:41] s clerk,

[20:45] our next speaker. Yes, sir.

[20:45] Next speaker, I

[20:46] m sorry, it

[20:47] s

[20:50] only marked as eca. Speak about

[20:55] concerns. We can come back to

[20:59] that speaker. Ok. Next speaker

[21:00] is MISS Rebecca Powers. MS.

[21:01] Powers, you have 3 minutes to

[21:06] address the mayor and council.

[21:08] Good evening council and Mayor.

[21:09] First, thank you for your

[21:11] service. You

[21:11] re extraordinary

[21:15] people. And you appreciate it.

[21:15] I

[21:17] m here right now to talk to

[21:19] you and follow up with what

[21:20] MISS Duke said. I

[21:25] m Wanting to.

[21:27] On behalf of many others, ask

[21:31] you all. To ask city staff.

[21:34] Work on a tree ordinance. That

[21:35] would preserve the trees that

[21:39] we currently have. Work on

[21:39] increasing the canopy trees,

[21:42] which are the big trees that

[21:43] provide the shade and all the

[21:48] glorious look of a city. And

[21:50] Very importantly, hire a

[21:53] full-time arborist. A full-time

[21:55] urban forester. Because this

[21:55] isn

[21:57] t something that just the

[21:59] volunteers can do, we sure try

[22:01] every, every year we plant. 100

[22:03] some trees. But it

[22:03] s bigger

[22:07] than us. And we need your help

[22:09] and that urban forester would

[22:10] be the person to do it, to have

[22:13] that expertise. Thank you.

[22:15] Thank you, MS. Powers. Thank

[22:16] you, MADAM Clark, our next

[22:19] Speaker. Yes, sir. Next speaker

[22:20] is Doctor Newman. Doctor Newman,

[22:22] you have 3 minutes to address

[22:23] the mayor and council. Doctor

[22:24] Newman, I

[22:24] d just like to know

[22:26] you had also noted up here to

[22:28] speak about the flag amendment,

[22:30] and that would be right during

[22:34] public hearing. Hello, good

[22:36] evening. Good evening. First, I

[22:38] want to start by thanking MR.

[22:40] Octagon, our director of Parks

[22:41] and Rec, I think he

[22:43] s here. He

[22:45] was here, yes, uh, I contacted

[22:48] him recently about 2 issues.

[22:50] One was a massive illegal

[22:52] dumping at what is the site of

[22:55] future East Side Park. And, uh,

[22:56] he followed up on that, called

[22:59] me, gave me an update, and told

[23:01] me how that situation would be

[23:04] remedied. I also called him

[23:06] after this very bizarre winter

[23:08] storm we had, and there was a

[23:09] section of the Greenway, which

[23:13] is on the north side of First

[23:14] Street Apartments, completely

[23:15] shaded, and I think it was 2

[23:17] days, maybe 3 days after the

[23:18] storm, it was still covered

[23:20] with a sheet of ice. So I

[23:21] called him, he said, yes, our

[23:22] crew hasn

[23:23] t been able to get

[23:24] out because of the ice, but

[23:24] we

[23:26] re gonna get out there

[23:27] tomorrow, so it was just great,

[23:29] you know, he was so responsive

[23:32] and so polite, and I really

[23:34] appreciated that. So I do want

[23:36] to, uh, echo some, some

[23:39] comments that have been made

[23:40] here previously tonight, and

[23:42] you all are very aware of this.

[23:45] People have come and spoken

[23:47] repeatedly about this. In the

[23:50] udo process, the community made

[23:51] very clear how they feel about

[23:55] trees. A big piece of that is

[23:56] two things that I have

[23:58] mentioned previously. And first

[24:00] I want to say I think every

[24:01] time I have come and spoken

[24:02] with you, I

[24:05] ve said I was so

[24:07] excited when this council came

[24:09] on board because you represent

[24:11] two important things.

[24:15] Possibility. An opportunity.

[24:17] Possibility to do things

[24:20] differently. We have 34% tree

[24:21] canopy because things have not

[24:22] been done in a thoughtful way

[24:26] in the past. Previous city

[24:28] councils, previous mayors,

[24:29] previous contractors and

[24:31] developers did not honor. What

[24:32] the community is now telling

[24:35] you is important. So we need a

[24:37] change of mindset. With

[24:39] contractors and developers, we

[24:41] see what their methods have

[24:43] done that cannot continue.

[24:43] That

[24:44] s the opportunity to say

[24:47] no, we have a chance to do

[24:48] things differently, and you can.

[24:50] One of the things I

[24:51] d like to

[24:53] suggest that I think would be

[24:54] really helpful in addressing

[24:57] solutions. I work with experts

[25:00] at ecu, experts in geology,

[25:03] hydrology, botany, watershed,

[25:04] uh, management, how to do that

[25:06] in an integrated way, and this

[25:08] is not to diminish the

[25:10] expertise of our stormwater

[25:11] engineers or planning

[25:13] department, just saying we have

[25:15] incredible experts at ecu. I

[25:17] would like for those people to

[25:19] be invited to workshops so that

[25:21] you could listen to the things

[25:23] that they have to say. These

[25:24] are people renowned in their

[25:27] field, their, their consultants

[25:29] that are are employed by all

[25:31] sorts of people to address

[25:32] critical environmental issues.

[25:33] And I didn

[25:34] t realize all these

[25:35] things until I started working

[25:37] with them. And then I realized,

[25:39] well, how would the average

[25:41] person know about these things?

[25:42] So I, I think it

[25:43] s really

[25:45] important that you have this

[25:46] background information because

[25:48] of how much it impacts the way

[25:49] you think about the decisions

[25:50] you

[25:50] re going to make. Uh, so

[25:51] I

[25:52] d like to follow up on this

[25:54] workshop idea. Thank you. I

[25:55] appreciate your service. Doctor

[25:56] Newman. Thanks, Doctor Newman.

[25:58] MADAM Clerk, our next speaker.

[26:00] Yes, sir. Next speaker is Ms

[26:01] Anne Maxwell. MISS Maxwell, you

[26:02] have 3 minutes to dress the

[26:12] mayor and council. Hello

[26:13] everyone. I

[26:15] m going to talk

[26:16] about trees outside because as

[26:17] I

[26:18] ve listened tonight, um, at

[26:20] all the positive things that

[26:21] have happened in Greenville. I

[26:24] want The tree issue to also be

[26:28] positive, and it is not now.

[26:30] Because when there was a tree

[26:32] assessment done and our tree

[26:36] canopy was 34%. And all over

[26:39] the state, it was much higher.

[26:40] And even talking to a developer,

[26:41] he said it

[26:42] s harder for us to

[26:43] keep the trees because of what

[26:46] we have to do the sites in

[26:47] eastern North Carolina, but

[26:50] then I look at Wilmington,

[26:51] certainly eastern North

[26:53] Carolina and they have a much

[26:55] higher tree canopy than us, so

[26:57] I know we can do something. And

[27:00] in the assessment, it has a

[27:01] wealth of information that can

[27:06] be used by the city to set a

[27:06] community-wide tree canopy gold.

[27:11] And one of the things that um

[27:13] has been has really not helped

[27:15] us is to have only a part-time

[27:20] arborist. Because this we need

[27:24] to have a full-time urban

[27:26] forester in this city because

[27:28] currently our arbors works in

[27:32] public works, and he helps with

[27:33] the public trees and that kind

[27:36] of thing, but there is nobody

[27:37] working with our planning

[27:40] department. Where most of the

[27:43] trees are cut. Um, and it

[27:44] s sad

[27:47] to me because when now when a

[27:49] developer presents a site plan

[27:51] to the plant staff, and it

[27:52] s

[27:53] approved, the developer can

[27:58] clear cut the property. And so

[27:59] all of our wonderful trees are

[28:02] leaving us. Um, and I

[28:03] ve worked

[28:05] I worked on a committee for

[28:08] almost a year, that put a lot

[28:11] of time in this, and I wish

[28:15] that you all would have. Um And

[28:17] your pike with relief and a

[28:19] friend of hers who

[28:19] s an urban

[28:22] forester, meet with you all at

[28:24] your next workshop session and

[28:28] go over what we put in our plan

[28:31] because we read the plans for

[28:33] cities all over North Carolina,

[28:35] and it was just really sad to

[28:36] see that Greenville didn

[28:37] t. We

[28:37] didn

[28:40] t have a plan. And when,

[28:44] and I saw the book from um

[28:45] Wilmington, where they, they

[28:50] have a, the Wilmington Urban

[28:51] Forestry plan and it

[28:51] s a

[28:54] beautiful book where they spell

[28:55] out everything what needs to be

[28:58] planted, where, why. Another

[29:04] sad piece is that We have 30%,

[29:07] 34% tree canopy and 30%

[29:10] impervious surface. So there

[29:11] s

[29:12] a lot that we have a plan that

[29:15] would be helpful. So thank you

[29:16] very much. Thank you. Thank you.

[29:19] Thank you, MISS Maxwell. Our

[29:20] next speaker. You don

[29:21] t have

[29:22] any additional registered

[29:22] speakers. Anyone else I

[29:23] d like

[29:23] to speak during the public

[29:24] comment period, please come

[29:25] forward, state your name for

[29:29] the record. You have 3 minutes.

[29:34] Yeah Do we want to go back and

[29:38] try this, or eca. MR. And MRS.

[29:39] Eca, you have 3 minutes to

[29:53] dress the mayor and council.

[29:54] See none we

[29:54] ll close the public

[29:55] comment period. We

[29:56] ll move on

[29:58] to appointments, MADAM Clerk,

[30:02] when you are ready. Um, first

[30:03] board is the Affordable housing

[30:04] loan Committee, COUNCILMAN

[30:08] Foreman. Uh, that is, um,

[30:10] Probably most, one of our most

[30:12] efficient boards, uh, but I

[30:12] m

[30:13] going to wait until next month

[30:15] so that I can contact them to

[30:16] make sure they want to be real.

[30:16] Ok. Yes, ma

[30:19] am. Next we have

[30:20] the board of adjustment Council

[30:21] member Blackburn. I

[30:22] d like to

[30:26] appoint Jeremy Jordan. Do we

[30:29] have a second? A second.

[30:30] Motions been made by Councilor

[30:33] Blackburn, say goodbye. Council

[30:35] member Willis, all those in

[30:37] favor say aye as opposed to say

[30:38] nay. Motion passes 6 to 0.

[30:40] Congratulations, MR. Jordan. Ok.

[30:42] Next we have the historic

[30:42] preservation Commission,

[30:46] Council member Blackburn. Yes,

[30:46] um, I

[30:49] d like to appoint a she,

[30:52] a shish Kachandani. He

[30:52] s

[30:55] actually a doctor Kajaani, uh,

[30:56] Susan Daughtry and Catherine

[30:58] Marriott. Ok. All right,

[30:58] motion

[30:59] s been made by council

[31:01] member Blackburn, seconded by

[31:02] Mayor Protem Daniels. All those

[31:04] in favor say aye, as opposed

[31:12] say nay. Motion passes. Doctor.

[31:13] Hanan Chande done. That was

[31:15] different than the first time

[31:17] you said and I apologize for,

[31:19] for not doing a good job, but I,

[31:20] but I know him as a she, so I

[31:23] just, I. What were the other

[31:25] two? Uh, Susan Daughtry and

[31:26] Catherine Marriott.

[31:28] Congratulations to all the new

[31:31] appointed commissioners. Ok.

[31:32] Next we have the human

[31:33] relations Council. Council

[31:37] member Willis. Yes, um, I have,

[31:38] and a couple of them mayor

[31:39] wanted to be here tonight. So

[31:39] if you

[31:40] re in the audience, if

[31:42] you could just wave at me, um,

[31:44] Donald Rivers. Yeah, here you

[31:46] go. Hi, MR. Rivers, um, Ashley

[31:51] Oaks. And uh summer bad one,

[31:51] and that

[31:55] s s a m a r. Summer.

[31:56] All right, motion has been made

[31:57] by Council Mayor Willis,

[31:58] seconded by Mayor Pro Tem

[32:00] Daniels. All those in favor say

[32:02] hi, as opposed to say nay.

[32:03] Motion passes 60.

[32:07] Congratulations to our new. Hrc

[32:11] hrc members. Welcome back. Next

[32:13] we have the multimodal

[32:14] transportation commission

[32:15] council member Scully. Thank

[32:16] you. I

[32:17] d like to reappoint, uh,

[32:22] James Bird. Kelly Gonzalez,

[32:24] Arcena Dixon, Catherine Dale,

[32:27] and Joey x Austin. That leaves

[32:28] one position that I

[32:29] d like to

[32:31] appoint next month. So motion

[32:31] s

[32:32] been made by council member

[32:33] Scully seconded by Council

[32:35] member Willis. All those in

[32:36] favor say aye, as opposed to

[32:38] say nay motion passes 6 to 0.

[32:40] Congratulations, MR. Bird, MISS

[32:44] Gonzalez. Dixie MISS Dixon,

[32:46] MISS Dale, and MR. Austin.

[32:49] There we go. Next we have the

[32:49] police community relations

[32:50] Committee. Again, this is a

[32:51] direct appointment, does not

[32:53] need a second or a vote. Um,

[32:55] council member Blackburn. I

[32:55] d

[32:56] like to appoint, uh, Greg

[32:59] Rubble. All right,

[33:02] congratulations MR. Rubble. Ok,

[33:04] and finally we have the youth

[33:05] council, council member Willis.

[33:06] Yes, so if you

[33:07] re here, if you

[33:09] wave at me, MISS Maya Swaggerty.

[33:14] Um, MS. Kinzie Letchworth. And

[33:15] MR. Daniel Mills. MR. Mills,

[33:17] can you stand up? You look so

[33:19] nice. Thank you for being here

[33:20] and congrats. Oh, I

[33:22] m sorry,

[33:24] not yet. All right, motions

[33:25] were made by Councillor Will,

[33:27] seconded by Mayor Pro Tem

[33:29] Daniels, all those in favor say

[33:31] aye I suppose say nay.

[33:33] Congratulations.

[33:34] Congratulations.

[33:34] Congratulations, MISS

[33:36] Letchworth, and MR. Mills,

[33:38] right? All right,

[33:40] congratulations. And that

[33:41] concludes our appointments. All

[33:43] right. Thank you very much.

[33:43] We

[33:45] ll now move on to the

[33:46] consent agenda. MR. Manager.

[33:50] Thank you, Mayor. Item number 5,

[33:51] amendment to previously entered

[33:52] lease with boys and Girls Clubs

[33:55] of the coastal plain. A North

[33:56] Carolina nonprofit corporation

[33:57] for property situated within

[33:58] the city of Greenville County,

[34:00] North Carolina, known as

[34:02] Lucille and w w w Gorham

[34:03] Intergenerational Center

[34:05] located at 1100 Ward Street,

[34:07] 1101 Ward Street. I number 6,

[34:09] resolution of intent to close a

[34:11] portion of Grand Avenue. I have

[34:13] number 7, resolution accepting

[34:15] dedication of rights of way and

[34:15] easements for Katie Farms phase

[34:18] one. Item number 8, resolution

[34:19] and deed of release for

[34:21] abandonment of a 10 ft wide

[34:23] sewer easement across tax

[34:25] parcel number 48303. Number 9,

[34:27] resolution for the issuance of

[34:29] a of new debt for Greenville

[34:30] Utilities Commission combined

[34:32] Enterprise System revenue bonds

[34:34] Series 2025. And item number 10,

[34:35] various tax refunds greater

[34:44] than $100. All right. Motion to

[34:46] approve. No, no, no, no. I had

[34:48] a question about that, that no.

[34:49] I had a question about that,

[34:54] that 10. What

[34:54] s today

[34:55] s date? 5

[34:56] through 10 5 through 10. All

[34:57] right. Most have been made by

[34:58] Blackburn, seconded by

[34:59] Councilor Mayor Robinson, all

[35:01] those in favor say aye, I

[35:03] suppose, say nay. Motion passes

[35:06] 6th year I need to take a quick

[35:09] break MAY MAY all right, we

[35:09] ll

[35:10] move on to new business, which

[35:11] is the public hearings. This is

[35:12] the policy of the public

[35:13] hearings adopted by the city

[35:15] council, the petitioner, or

[35:15] representative of the

[35:16] petitioner and a leader of

[35:18] those in opposition will each

[35:19] have 10 minutes. Persons

[35:20] following them will have up to

[35:21] 3 minutes each with a total for

[35:22] each side and no more than 30

[35:23] minutes. Additionally, I want

[35:24] to remind those in attendance

[35:27] to extend the courtesy to

[35:28] persons speaking during the

[35:30] public hearings. And to the

[35:31] city council during discussion

[35:32] comments made by members of the

[35:34] public are to occur only during

[35:36] the public hearing in the loud

[35:37] as allowed by the mayor in

[35:38] accordance with the adopt the

[35:39] policy of the city council.

[35:40] There should be no

[35:41] interruptions of speakers or

[35:43] council members. Including his

[35:44] expressions of support or

[35:45] disagreements, verbally or by

[35:46] applause, as this is

[35:47] distracting and makes

[35:48] discussion difficult. We ask

[35:50] for your cooperation. Thank you.

[35:52] MR. Manager, our first public

[35:54] hearing. Thank you, Mayor. Item

[35:56] number 11, ordinance to annex

[35:58] MAY farm lot one property

[36:00] involving 4.697 acres located

[36:01] at the northwestern corner of

[36:03] the intersection of East 10th

[36:04] Street and evolve way. I

[36:05] ll now

[36:06] call forward for city planner

[36:06] Chris Kelly for the

[36:10] presentation. Good evening,

[36:11] Mayor and COUNCILMAN. Good

[36:14] evening. This property is

[36:15] located in the eastern part of

[36:17] the city, more specifically,

[36:19] this property is located at the

[36:20] northwestern corner of the

[36:21] intersection of East 10th

[36:23] Street and evolved Way north of

[36:24] the property is Lowe

[36:25] s and you

[36:26] have Oak Down Way, which is a

[36:29] signalized light. This property

[36:30] is located in the Hardy Creek

[36:32] watershed, and if stormwater

[36:33] rules apply, will require 10

[36:35] year detention. The property is

[36:36] also located in the primary

[36:38] service area on the tier growth

[36:40] map, and will be located in, uh,

[36:41] city council voting district

[36:44] number 4. This property is

[36:44] anticipated to yield 30,000

[36:46] square feet of commercial use,

[36:47] with an estimated tax value of

[36:48] $4 million and I

[36:49] ll be happy to

[36:50] answer any questions. All right,

[36:54] any questions for MR. Kelly.

[36:54] What

[36:55] s the current zoning on

[36:57] the property? Cg General

[36:59] Commercial. Thank you. Any

[37:04] other questions? Does it meet

[37:07] our horizons plan? Yes, sir. Ok.

[37:17] I believe so. A. Do you know

[37:19] the intended use for the

[37:21] property? Um, as of right now,

[37:21] I believe it

[37:23] s just a variation

[37:28] of commercial ucg allow. Well,

[37:30] I did, I did do some a deep

[37:31] dive on this, and I don

[37:31] t want

[37:32] to take your time away, but

[37:32] it

[37:34] s supposed to be used for a

[37:35] tropical smoothie, uh,

[37:37] commercial center. It will

[37:38] feature 4 separate, if I

[37:39] ve got

[37:41] this correct, um, 4 separate,

[37:42] uh, commercial entities, one of

[37:44] them being a tropical smoothie.

[37:47] But keep in mind moting based

[37:49] off of just the zoe. Now this

[37:52] is a side plan. And this is an

[37:54] annexation, not a rezoning.

[37:58] There is a. Ok, all right.

[38:02] Tight plans under review. Right.

[38:05] Any other questions? If we

[38:07] annex today with the I playing

[38:09] come back to us or would that,

[38:14] yeah. Can they develop this

[38:15] property while remaining in the

[38:21] county? Mhm So That

[38:24] s a very

[38:25] difficult question. Can they

[38:26] develop the property in the

[38:27] same way while remaining

[38:28] outside of the city limits.

[38:29] What are they applying for

[38:34] annexation? The property is

[38:36] currently zoned commercial.

[38:36] They

[38:37] re asking to annex so they

[38:41] can tie on to sewer. Um, and I

[38:42] do, I believe there

[38:43] s a site

[38:44] plan under review, but I do not

[38:46] know what that is. However,

[38:48] counsel never sees site plans.

[38:48] So you, you

[38:49] re not going to see

[38:52] it. At a council meeting. I

[38:55] have a hard time, um, proven

[38:56] something that I don

[38:56] t know the

[38:59] traffic study for us are really

[39:00] dangerous stretch of road there

[39:01] if this will help you, I

[39:02] ll go

[39:03] ahead and and say. So it

[39:04] s

[39:04] already been preliminary

[39:08] platted. So this is one lot out

[39:09] of several different pieces.

[39:10] I

[39:12] m gonna dial back just to

[39:16] Make sure I get to an aerial.

[39:16] I

[39:18] m going opposite. I apologize.

[39:18] I

[39:22] m sorry. Here we go. So, This,

[39:23] uh, the property you see right

[39:26] now is in red. The balance of

[39:28] the property here is developing

[39:32] into multifamily. This is part

[39:34] of a larger subdivision.

[39:36] Subdivision has already been

[39:38] approved. That was approved

[39:40] with dot and city engineering

[39:43] as far as the streets and, um,

[39:47] Any driveways. This property

[39:48] with these apartments, you will

[39:49] be able, whether it

[39:51] s this lot

[39:51] or the apartments themselves,

[39:51] you

[39:53] ll be able to go down to

[39:55] Oak Down Way. Come up, this is

[39:56] a signalized intersection, so

[39:56] you

[39:57] ll be able to make a left

[40:01] hand turn at the stoplight. The

[40:02] driveway here evolve way,

[40:02] that

[40:03] s a right in and a right

[40:05] out. You will not be able to

[40:09] make a left hand turn. And so

[40:10] as part of dot

[40:10] s review and

[40:13] approval. And city engineering.

[40:17] That, those parts have already.

[40:19] Basically been taken care of as

[40:22] far as any kind of uh traffic

[40:23] impacts, and that is why it

[40:24] s a

[40:26] ride in and ride out and not a

[40:28] left-hand turn. So there

[40:29] ll be

[40:31] like lane dividers put in the

[40:33] middle delineators or perhaps

[40:34] the medians, um, that would

[40:35] keep someone coming out and

[40:37] making a left hand turn. Can do

[40:43] it. Ok. So follow up questions

[40:43] here. I

[40:44] ve not heard about

[40:46] medians. Are, are there plans

[40:48] for meetings? I, I can

[40:49] t tell

[40:50] you right off the top. All I

[40:51] can say is it

[40:51] s a ride in and a

[40:53] ride out. Because that

[40:54] s one of

[40:55] the issues and, and I don

[40:55] t

[40:56] want to verge into comments

[40:57] just yet, but that

[40:57] s, that

[40:57] s

[40:59] one of the, the, the issues

[41:02] with this request to annex is

[41:02] that there

[41:03] s nothing there.

[41:03] It

[41:03] s, it

[41:04] s wide open. There

[41:04] s

[41:05] no, there

[41:07] s no stoplight,

[41:07] there

[41:08] s no lane dividers.

[41:08] There

[41:09] s nothing but a blind

[41:11] curve and, and, and, and

[41:14] whatever, um, so. Ok, whatever,

[41:14] that

[41:15] s subjective, but there,

[41:15] there

[41:15] s, there

[41:16] s not that and

[41:17] to my knowledge, because we

[41:17] ve

[41:19] worked an awful lot already

[41:19] with dot and we

[41:20] ve talked with

[41:21] dot and we

[41:22] ve sent requests to

[41:24] dot to my knowledge, I, I know

[41:27] of no plans to. Remediate in

[41:32] any way this area. Um So if,

[41:33] you know, if it

[41:34] s right in and

[41:36] right out, I, I. I don

[41:36] t know

[41:36] how that

[41:37] s going to be enforced.

[41:40] You

[41:42] re probably going to have a

[41:43] median in the driveway. That

[41:43] s

[41:44] going to force you to make a

[41:47] right-hand turn. But not, we

[41:47] don

[41:48] t know medians on 10th

[41:52] Street. I mean, in the driveway

[41:53] itself, um, a follow-up

[41:55] question to that. Do you know

[41:56] when, um, this, and I don

[41:56] t

[41:57] want to put you on the spot,

[41:59] but do you know when this was

[42:03] zoned commercial. This has been

[42:07] zone commercial one. Yeah, 2008.

[42:09] I was going to say 10 years, so

[42:11] that would be pretty good. So

[42:14] is it fair to say that since

[42:14] 2008, that

[42:15] s 10, my math isn

[42:15] t

[42:19] the best, but, um, 1615 years?

[42:21] Plus The conditions have

[42:24] changed in this area. Is that a

[42:25] fair statement? Uh, I don

[42:25] t

[42:26] want to put you on the spot,

[42:28] but I mean with more

[42:29] development around they still

[42:32] do a percentage every year to

[42:35] build in for build out. And

[42:36] they still take into

[42:38] consideration things as they

[42:38] re

[42:39] being developed, kind of like

[42:42] in a checkbook. So they

[42:42] re

[42:44] keeping up with the traffic. Ok,

[42:48] thank you. Again, you, you feel

[42:49] confident that they

[42:49] ll be

[42:50] delineators, but on the 10th

[42:51] Street I can

[42:52] t say that. I wish

[42:53] i could, but I don

[42:55] t know. I

[42:55] m

[42:57] gonna ask um. Our director of

[42:59] Engineering Lisa Kirby, to come

[43:01] up and speak to them. I MAY

[43:02] have to defer or traffic

[43:03] engineer who

[43:03] s with me tonight,

[43:05] but, um, no, to our knowledge,

[43:07] there are no medians going in

[43:08] on 10th Street. Um, so you are

[43:10] correct in that, um, we have

[43:11] not been informed by dot that

[43:13] there are medians going in on

[43:16] 10th Street. However, at the

[43:17] driveway, um, to Shante

[43:18] s point,

[43:19] there will be, we call it a

[43:21] pork chop, but it prevents left

[43:22] turns. It forces you to go

[43:24] right, um, and only allows

[43:25] right in, would be a dual pork

[43:28] chop, so it kind of looks like

[43:29] a triangle in the driveway. Are

[43:31] they, uh, enforced? And

[43:34] enforceable. Um, they are

[43:39] enforceable, yes. Thank you.

[43:42] Was there another question? So

[43:43] there

[43:44] s a light here on I would

[43:46] just feel a lot better if there

[43:47] were delineators in the street,

[43:48] and the pork chop. Cause it

[43:49] s

[43:50] Those exist throughout the city

[43:52] and I see people taking lefts

[43:53] into them all the time and they

[43:53] don

[43:54] t. I don

[43:55] t think they

[43:58] prevent It MAY even make it

[43:59] dangerous in some, some points

[43:59] when somebody

[44:00] s trying to do

[44:01] something they

[44:01] re not supposed

[44:03] to, um. And, and, and I would

[44:07] just say. Even delineators

[44:07] aren

[44:08] t 100% sure fail safe. I

[44:10] mean, we, we actually did a

[44:12] site visit and with some

[44:12] delineators and we saw a car

[44:14] just do a u-turn right there in

[44:15] the middle. So I mean whether

[44:16] it

[44:17] s a pork chop or delineator,

[44:19] you know, this is the best, um,

[44:20] method that we have to be able

[44:21] to control that left turn,

[44:24] right turn. And I think the

[44:24] issue I

[44:25] m really must sticking

[44:26] with me is there

[44:27] s a giant

[44:27] apartment complex that

[44:29] s gonna

[44:30] wrap around this property. And

[44:30] we don

[44:30] t know how that

[44:31] s going

[44:32] to impact traffic, and then if

[44:35] you add a a multi-unit

[44:37] commercial property there. Um,

[44:38] with a business like Tropical

[44:39] community, that

[44:39] s gonna be

[44:41] really busy. I, I just really

[44:43] worry about the 10th Street

[44:44] being able to handle that load

[44:47] in that section. It is a blind

[44:47] curve and there

[44:48] s not much

[44:50] infrastructure there at all to

[44:51] prevent accidents from

[44:54] happening, so, um, I worry

[44:56] about that, um, up and down

[44:58] 10th Street, but that section

[44:59] in particular between Lowe

[45:00] s

[45:01] and Walmart, there

[45:01] s the curve

[45:01] there, it

[45:03] s just And there

[45:03] s a

[45:03] doctor

[45:04] s office going across

[45:04] the street. There

[45:05] s just a ton

[45:06] of stuff going in there all at

[45:08] the same time and and. I wish

[45:09] we could slow roll this a

[45:13] little bit to to. See how

[45:13] that

[45:16] s gonna impact the, the uh,

[45:20] traffic on the street, um. I

[45:21] Any other questions for our

[45:24] staff? If they meet the

[45:24] requirements for the next

[45:25] session, we can

[45:25] t turn down,

[45:28] can we, can we? Yeah, you can,

[45:31] you can, you can do that. Ok.

[45:37] All right, any other questions?

[45:38] All right. Public hearings now

[45:40] open. Those be on behalf of the

[45:41] applicant Ma forward. Please

[45:41] state your name for the record.

[45:43] The first person has 10 minutes.

[45:52] All others have 3 minutes. Are

[46:02] you speaking in favor? Just

[46:07] just a guess. All right, see

[46:09] none. Those in opposition to

[46:10] the applicant MAY come forward.

[46:11] Please state your name for the

[46:13] record. First person has 10

[46:14] minutes, all others have 3

[46:16] minutes. You get a whole 10

[46:20] minutes. Oh, I don

[46:20] t need that

[46:22] long. Thanks for it. I, unless

[46:23] I really lose my train of

[46:25] thought here, but Rebecca

[46:27] Powers, am I supposed to give

[46:29] my address because this is my

[46:32] neighborhood and so I live and

[46:33] breathe this area and I use Oak

[46:36] Down, who was mentioning that

[46:37] Oak Down all the time and the

[46:38] light because I can

[46:38] t get out

[46:40] of my neighborhood otherwise.

[46:41] And I think we

[46:42] re gonna have

[46:43] 50,000 people move into those

[46:46] apartments. 50. I don

[46:47] t know

[46:50] how many, but a whole lot if

[46:50] you haven

[46:52] t seen them, they

[46:52] re

[46:54] just huge. And how those folks

[46:55] are gonna get in and out of

[46:57] their homes. I

[46:58] m worried too,

[46:59] Matt. I just, I don

[47:00] t, I can

[47:00] t

[47:03] imagine it happening. But it

[47:03] s

[47:05] gonna happen, so back to what

[47:07] was said about when it was

[47:08] zoned commercial and the

[47:09] horizons plan, that was a long

[47:13] time ago. And I read the packet

[47:15] in the agenda and tried to

[47:16] understand what was going to

[47:18] happen tonight. And I

[47:19] m so glad

[47:20] you asked about voting it yes

[47:23] or no. I couldn

[47:23] t understand

[47:27] where we were in this process.

[47:28] And when the young man sitting

[47:29] beside MISS Gooby, I didn

[47:29] t

[47:33] catch your name. I think he

[47:35] said hm MR. Kelly. I think it

[47:40] was him who said, What do you

[47:42] what do you call the plat

[47:42] zoning won

[47:44] t come back to you.

[47:46] So if you say yes tonight, it

[47:46] s

[47:48] a done deal. Oh, that

[47:48] s not

[47:50] right. Um, I

[47:51] m also the

[47:53] PRESIDENT Of my neighborhood

[47:54] association, and we don

[47:54] t know

[47:56] anything about this, and I

[47:56] don

[47:58] t know that anybody in the

[47:59] other neighborhoods do because

[47:59] it hasn

[48:02] t come up. And then

[48:02] I

[48:03] ve also been thinking since i

[48:05] read in the agenda and on the

[48:07] packet. I can

[48:08] t think of one

[48:11] other tropical smoothie.

[48:13] Anywhere in our city that

[48:13] s

[48:14] just surrounded by all this

[48:18] housing. Right up around it.

[48:18] I

[48:20] m thinking of that one and

[48:21] maybe the mayor can think of

[48:21] one, but I

[48:22] m thinking of the

[48:24] one out on Arlington and

[48:24] Dickinson. It

[48:25] s sitting there.

[48:25] Yeah, there

[48:27] s housing, but it

[48:27] s

[48:28] way over there and they have

[48:30] their own light. Oh, and they

[48:33] went out of business or

[48:34] something. Oh They

[48:36] re by a

[48:37] hotel now because it

[48:38] s not good

[48:41] to be interested because So I

[48:42] have a lot of issues right

[48:44] there and I hope what we can do

[48:48] tonight is Got 7 more minutes,

[48:57] but, uh. I should say I

[48:57] ve got

[49:02] the floor right? So, um, No, I

[49:04] do want to know, and I don

[49:04] t

[49:05] think that we were told by the

[49:06] planners if it

[49:08] s currently etj.

[49:08] Because it

[49:09] s sitting right

[49:12] there in other parts of the. Of

[49:13] the city and I think you said

[49:18] they want to. No, no, Just

[49:18] sitting here I

[49:20] m sorry. I can

[49:23] help. Oh Oh Well, about the

[49:26] sewer, um, tying into our water

[49:28] and sewer. So somehow that has

[49:33] to do with being The next, um,

[49:33] I just can

[49:34] t, I understand if

[49:34] there

[49:36] s, you know, we already

[49:37] have a dentist there, that big

[49:39] dentist, you know, that

[49:41] beautiful dentist, eastern

[49:42] dentistry, and you know, that

[49:42] fits in. There

[49:43] s not a lot of

[49:46] terrible traffic, but someplace

[49:46] else that

[49:47] s more commercial,

[49:47] that

[49:48] s not an office kind of

[49:50] place where people are just

[49:52] there a limited time. Um Please

[49:59] say no to the annex. Thank you.

[50:00] Unless I can respond to

[50:02] something you asked me. Ok, I

[50:02] would think it

[50:03] s in the etj

[50:04] though. Did, did you ask if

[50:04] it

[50:06] s in the atj? Were you going

[50:07] to respond to that? If you have

[50:08] zone and you

[50:09] re in the city

[50:11] limits for the etj. That is

[50:13] your only option. So this is in

[50:15] the etj. Ok, because they are,

[50:16] ok, so can

[50:17] t they use the water,

[50:18] and that

[50:19] s really what they

[50:22] want, but. I guess can

[50:23] t we not

[50:24] without any exception. And we

[50:24] don

[50:26] t have any ruling over etj

[50:27] because that

[50:29] s a county

[50:30] commissioners or we do that too?

[50:32] Um-hum. Just sitting. Ok. What

[50:34] they want is to tie into our

[50:35] sewer system, um, and that, and

[50:36] the only way they can do that

[50:38] is to be annexed. Is to be

[50:44] annexed. Hm. And to be annexed

[50:46] with already a plat in place, a

[50:47] done deal. 5 minutes I give

[50:50] back to you. I, I concede or I

[50:52] give back to you my 5 minutes.

[50:53] Thank you. Thanks, Doctor

[50:55] Powers. We appreciate that.

[50:56] Anyone else that

[50:56] s in

[50:57] opposition to the applicant MAY

[50:58] come forward. Please state your

[50:59] name for the record.

[51:01] Fortunately, you only have 3

[51:03] minutes. It

[51:04] s not a problem. My

[51:05] name is Mark Parker, and I

[51:05] m

[51:07] very familiar with that area.

[51:08] My boys live over there and

[51:10] when I was teaching them how to

[51:12] drive, I used to have to tell

[51:13] them when traffic is traffic is

[51:15] always busy in the morning and

[51:16] the afternoons. I used to tell

[51:17] them like, if you need to make

[51:20] a left, actually make a right,

[51:21] go to Lowe

[51:22] s and then make a,

[51:24] make a little Ui in the parking

[51:26] lot and then go back to your

[51:27] direction because I mean people

[51:29] are speeding back and forth and

[51:30] a lot of time with the traffic.

[51:30] Surveys you

[51:31] re not looking at,

[51:31] you

[51:32] re not talking to the

[51:35] people who live in the areas.

[51:38] Who see it 24/7 morning, noon,

[51:41] dusk, dawn, weekends, weekdays,

[51:42] rush hour, and that

[51:42] s gonna be

[51:44] a lot with all those apartments,

[51:44] and we

[51:45] re talking about

[51:46] commercial buildings, people go

[51:47] on the tropical smoothie. It is

[51:49] a popular place. I use it a lot

[51:51] myself. I love it, but That

[51:52] s

[51:54] gonna be a lot of disturbance,

[51:55] um, and just disruption to the

[51:56] people who live in River Hills

[51:57] and the surrounding communities.

[52:00] And We already got a report

[52:02] today in the news that we are

[52:04] like what? In top in the

[52:05] country or bad drivers in North

[52:06] Carolina, Greenwood, North

[52:07] Carolina. It

[52:08] s only gonna be a

[52:09] bunch more accidents. It

[52:09] s only

[52:11] gonna be worse. I work in

[52:11] healthcare. I

[52:12] ve x-rayed plenty

[52:14] of people on the back porch.

[52:14] I

[52:15] ve seen people from, from

[52:19] birth. Accidents to the morgue.

[52:19] So I

[52:20] ve seen all the whole

[52:24] spectrum. So I would say no. I

[52:24] don

[52:24] t think we should go with

[52:28] it. Thank you. Thank you.

[52:29] Anyone else like to speak in

[52:30] opposition to the aa. MAY come

[52:31] forward. Please state your name

[52:32] for the record. You have 3

[52:37] minutes. Hi, um, my name is

[52:39] Pedro, um, and I would also say

[52:42] no, um, like the other two

[52:43] speakers before me, I

[52:43] m also

[52:45] very familiar with that area,

[52:48] um, my, um, my aunt lives in

[52:50] Grisland, so when I was going

[52:52] to ecu I would actually have to

[52:54] drive up that road every single

[52:55] day, um, and like the gentleman

[52:57] before me said, it gets very

[52:59] busy, um, during the mornings

[53:02] and, you know, the afternoon,

[53:04] um, the rush hour traffic and

[53:04] um I just, I don

[53:04] t think they

[53:06] have. A good idea of what

[53:06] they

[53:07] re gonna do with the

[53:12] traffic. Um, and like, um, like,

[53:12] um, I think it

[53:13] s uh MR. Scully.

[53:15] Yes, sir, thank you um, you

[53:16] know, I think he

[53:16] s, he

[53:17] s very

[53:18] right, you know, he would like

[53:19] to know better what they

[53:20] re

[53:20] gonna do if there

[53:21] s gonna be a

[53:22] meeting or whatever. I think

[53:22] that

[53:23] s, that

[53:25] s very important

[53:26] to know before approving an

[53:28] annexation, um. Which I also

[53:31] took a little bit of issue with

[53:32] um uh the planners. I

[53:33] m not

[53:34] sure the proper term for them,

[53:36] but them saying that you guys

[53:36] don

[53:37] t get the plans. You

[53:38] basically don

[53:39] t have a sale

[53:40] until, you know, you basically

[53:42] just say yes or no, and then

[53:42] after that it

[53:44] s just whatever

[53:45] they wanna do or whatever

[53:45] they

[53:46] re gonna do, you know, I,

[53:48] I think maybe we should know

[53:49] better what

[53:50] s gonna happen

[53:51] before saying, yes, that

[53:51] s fine,

[53:52] or no, it

[53:54] s not fine. And um,

[53:56] like the, the lady said, um, in

[53:57] the beginning, there

[53:57] s a big,

[53:58] big. Apartment complex. It

[53:59] actually looks pretty nice. I

[54:01] was thinking maybe I might move

[54:03] there, but if they put um a

[54:04] traffic like I didn

[54:04] t know

[54:06] there was gonna be like a

[54:06] commercial center, maybe I

[54:07] wouldn

[54:08] t want to live next to a

[54:09] commercial center, you know,

[54:11] maybe I just want to drive into

[54:12] my apartment complex, not have

[54:14] to drive by a bunch of

[54:14] businesses, even though it is

[54:15] by the lows, but that

[54:16] s, that

[54:16] s

[54:17] not that bad. Lowe

[54:17] s is pretty

[54:19] good for, for deals and stuff.

[54:21] But um, yeah, that

[54:22] s all, um, I

[54:23] just, I think maybe more

[54:26] information is needed for the

[54:27] traffic, especially because

[54:29] that turn on the where the

[54:31] graveyards are, it is very like,

[54:32] um, like MR. Scully said, it

[54:33] was, it

[54:36] s a blind turn and like

[54:37] the gentleman before me said,

[54:38] turning left there is not gonna

[54:40] happen, but when you add a

[54:42] bunch of people, um, that live

[54:44] there, they get comfortable and

[54:44] they

[54:46] re gonna turn left and

[54:47] that might cause more accidents

[54:48] in that area, but that

[54:49] s all I

[54:51] have. Thank you. Thank you.

[54:52] Sweetheart, what was your name

[54:55] again? Pedro. What

[54:55] s your last

[54:58] name? For now. Thank you. Thank

[55:02] you. All right, anyone else

[55:02] who

[55:03] d like to speak in

[55:05] opposition to the applicant,

[55:06] please come forward and state

[55:08] your name for the record. You

[55:10] have 3 wonderful nuts. Again.

[55:13] When I look at that, I see a

[55:14] lot of trees. You

[55:16] re lucky we

[55:18] know and if we, if we don

[55:19] t

[55:21] protect those trees at 34% is

[55:25] going to go down. And I don

[55:25] t

[55:26] know right now since we don

[55:26] t

[55:30] have a, a tree survey in

[55:33] Greenville. We need to have an

[55:35] urban forester who can look at

[55:40] our cities. Canopy and see if

[55:42] we have heritage trees because

[55:44] on this property there MAY be

[55:46] heritage trees and, and I

[55:47] looked it up to tell you

[55:50] exactly, and that is a tree

[55:52] designated as significant due

[55:54] to its historical, cultural,

[55:57] ecological, or its age, size,

[55:59] or unique qualities. And we

[56:01] have not identified any of that

[56:03] in Greenville, so we lose our

[56:04] heritage trees. What are we

[56:06] going to lose on that property.

[56:09] What can be done to save them.

[56:11] Somebody suggested a land trust.

[56:12] I don

[56:12] t know if that would work.

[56:16] I have no idea, but I just know

[56:19] that if we just let this go the

[56:20] way of all the other

[56:22] development, we are going to

[56:25] lose more trees. And that

[56:27] really bothers me because that

[56:29] affects all of us. It affects

[56:33] our health. And in fact, I was

[56:35] reading an article today about

[56:38] how in Kentucky they actually

[56:39] are planting trees to help with

[56:43] asthma. So this is very, you

[56:45] know, I. It

[56:47] s important Thank

[56:49] you. Thanks, MS. Maxwell. Thank

[56:51] you. Anyone else that likes to

[56:52] speak in opposition to the

[56:53] applicant, please come forward,

[56:56] state your name for the record.

[56:59] You have 3 minutes. Hello,

[57:02] Yoshi Newman. There are 2 votes

[57:03] that you

[57:06] re gonna take tonight.

[57:06] For which it

[57:08] s imperative that

[57:09] you vote no, and this is one of

[57:13] them. When I moved to

[57:16] Greenville 11.5 years ago. Uh,

[57:17] I live right there by Lowe

[57:17] s in

[57:18] that neighborhood tucked back

[57:20] in there. So I was leaving the

[57:22] neighborhood and headed toward

[57:25] campus, and it was dark.

[57:28] Terminal is right there and so

[57:28] there

[57:28] s the boat landing access

[57:33] that way. There was a truck.

[57:37] With a big boat and a trailer

[57:39] that came barreling down that

[57:44] road and totaled. My beautiful

[57:46] little bmw z3 Roadster. Totaled

[57:50] it. Fortunately, I got out and

[57:51] walked away. I actually was

[57:53] able to put the bumper in my

[57:57] truck and go back to my house.

[58:00] That was over 10 years ago. The

[58:01] complex that

[58:02] s there, uh, that

[58:04] is currently under construction,

[58:07] evolve at the Pines. There are

[58:11] no pines there. Evolve at the

[58:12] pines hundreds of units,

[58:14] hundreds of cars. I will also

[58:16] remind you that at the

[58:17] intersection of Port Terminal

[58:19] and 10th, a couple of years ago

[58:24] or so. A housing development

[58:26] was approved there despite

[58:27] objections from residences in

[58:28] the area. It

[58:30] s near a flood

[58:33] plain, Fort Port Terminal has

[58:35] been flooded repeatedly. There

[58:36] was a helicopter evacuation of

[58:38] people who lived on Port

[58:41] Terminal Road. Still, Hundreds

[58:43] of housing units sitting right

[58:45] there on uh port terminal in

[58:48] 10th, no stoplight. That evolve

[58:49] at the Pines for which there

[58:49] s

[58:53] no pines. No stoplight. So

[58:53] we

[58:55] ve got hundreds of cars and

[58:57] as MR. Walker explained, the

[58:59] traffic studies, while those

[58:59] don

[59:01] t seem to have any impact

[59:04] on decisions, they do have an

[59:06] impact on drivers

[59:07] real lived

[59:09] experience. My poor total

[59:10] little car. Now, you know, I

[59:10] mean, I don

[59:11] t mean to make

[59:13] light of that, but it is a

[59:15] dangerous, dangerous road. It

[59:17] is not supposed to be another.

[59:18] Greenville Boulevard, which is

[59:22] not a boulevard. So the the the

[59:26] section of East 10th. From, uh,

[59:28] Greenville, not Boulevard, up

[59:31] to Brook Valley or, uh, Copper

[59:34] Creek is solid businesses with

[59:35] cars coming in multiple

[59:36] directions, and pedestrians

[59:37] going back and forth. It

[59:38] s

[59:40] awful. This is not what we

[59:42] should have happening in our

[59:44] city, so no, no commercial

[59:47] development in that area. Keep

[59:49] it safe and we also have two

[59:51] cemeteries right there. So we

[59:53] have funeral processions on a

[59:55] regular basis. You know,

[59:56] drivers get impatient. They

[59:57] re

[59:58] on their way somewhere. People

[1:00:00] are going to be zooming around

[1:00:02] to get around a funeral

[1:00:04] procession. So this is one of

[1:00:06] the 2 votes tonight for which

[1:00:07] it

[1:00:08] s very important that you

[1:00:08] vote no. There

[1:00:09] s no good reason

[1:00:12] in my mind to vote yes. Thank

[1:00:14] you. Thank you. Thank you.

[1:00:15] Anyone else like to speak in

[1:00:16] opposition to the Africa MAY

[1:00:16] come forward. Please state your

[1:00:17] name for the record. You have 3

[1:00:25] minutes. Good evening, Mr.

[1:00:26] Mayor, counsel. My name is

[1:00:29] Brian Fagundas. So the things

[1:00:30] that I

[1:00:30] m opposed to echo a lot

[1:00:31] of what

[1:00:32] s been said. I

[1:00:33] m

[1:00:34] opposed to unsafe traffic,

[1:00:37] opposed to Getting rid of

[1:00:37] things and and I

[1:00:39] ll call it not

[1:00:40] smart development, but I do

[1:00:41] want to remind you guys, the

[1:00:43] city regulates subdivision. The

[1:00:45] city has a requirement for

[1:00:46] annexation to provide utility

[1:00:48] services from Bro Utilities. I

[1:00:49] just want to remind you guys

[1:00:53] that. The annexation is the

[1:00:56] next step for this site. The

[1:00:56] zoning

[1:00:57] s been in place, the

[1:00:58] uses in that district would be

[1:01:02] by right. If uses require a

[1:01:03] board of adjustment approval or

[1:01:04] specific uses, then they

[1:01:04] ll go

[1:01:07] for special use. Just wanted to

[1:01:10] remind you guys of uh. Thank

[1:01:13] you. Alright, anybody else

[1:01:13] who

[1:01:15] d like to speak? In

[1:01:16] opposition to the African

[1:01:17] American, please state your

[1:01:17] name for the record. You have 3

[1:01:29] minutes. See none public

[1:01:30] hearing is now closed, open for

[1:01:32] a board discussion or a motion.

[1:01:33] Council member Blackburn, thank

[1:01:35] you so much and thank you to

[1:01:37] everyone who came tonight to

[1:01:39] speak and so many good points

[1:01:39] have been raised. I

[1:01:40] m gonna do

[1:01:43] my best to summarize them. Um,

[1:01:44] we said never again will we

[1:01:46] have a Greenville Boulevard.

[1:01:49] Well, too late. Years of

[1:01:50] indiscriminate commercial

[1:01:52] zoning, but also population

[1:01:53] growth have resulted in what we

[1:01:56] have on 10th Street East. This

[1:02:01] request would bring a 4.6 acre.

[1:02:02] Commercial center anchored by

[1:02:03] the Tropical smoothie. While

[1:02:03] I

[1:02:05] d love to have a smoothie

[1:02:07] shop across the street to

[1:02:08] approve this annexation without

[1:02:09] safety improvements would be

[1:02:13] reckless. The same issues we

[1:02:14] faced beforehand on Port

[1:02:15] Terminal Road with that

[1:02:17] commercial request. Um, are, uh,

[1:02:19] the, the same issues that we

[1:02:21] faced then are now, uh, uh, we,

[1:02:23] we face them, but they

[1:02:23] re

[1:02:26] exponentially more serious. The

[1:02:27] stakes are incredibly high here

[1:02:28] and I think that the

[1:02:30] description of the car accident

[1:02:32] is chilling. That was 11 years

[1:02:35] ago. The new apartments will

[1:02:36] bring in hundreds of new

[1:02:37] residents to this exact

[1:02:40] location. The new pediatrics

[1:02:41] office at the corner of, uh,

[1:02:43] River Hill Drive and 10th

[1:02:44] Street is opening up and it

[1:02:44] s

[1:02:46] going to bring in probably 100s

[1:02:50] of trips a day. Every day.

[1:02:52] Beyond the Food Lion and, um,

[1:02:54] even outside the city limits,

[1:02:57] we see more and more growth.

[1:02:58] All the way headed down to

[1:03:00] Black Jack Simpson and

[1:03:01] Chockainity along 33 East.

[1:03:03] Growth is good. This is a good

[1:03:05] thing. Glad to see the growth.

[1:03:08] But until 10th Street has some

[1:03:09] improvements, we cannot

[1:03:11] continue to be reckless with

[1:03:15] our decisions. 10th Street has

[1:03:16] been largely unchanged in, I

[1:03:18] dare to say 20 years. We got a

[1:03:21] stoplight at Cowra Beach and we

[1:03:23] got that. Why? Because a young

[1:03:26] man died there. Young man died

[1:03:29] there. We do not want that

[1:03:32] blood on our hands again. 10th

[1:03:33] Street was designed as a

[1:03:35] thoroughfare. Get you from

[1:03:39] Greenville. Points east. It

[1:03:41] lacks the infrastructure to

[1:03:42] safely carry the load we

[1:03:42] re

[1:03:45] asking of it today. Dividers,

[1:03:48] safety ones, lane demarcation,

[1:03:50] and reduced speed down to 35

[1:03:53] miles an hour. Most critically,

[1:03:55] it lacks traffic signals.

[1:03:56] Indeed, the traffic flow out

[1:03:58] there, as has been described,

[1:04:01] resembles a kind of a wildcard

[1:04:07] zone, anything goes. So Taking

[1:04:09] all of this into consideration.

[1:04:11] We are headed in a bad

[1:04:12] direction on 10th Street East

[1:04:14] until we get the infrastructure

[1:04:16] improvements that we need and

[1:04:18] we can halt this bad direction.

[1:04:21] We can take some time to do

[1:04:23] things the right way and, um, I

[1:04:25] also want to, uh, mention the

[1:04:26] heritage trees that I believe

[1:04:28] are also on this site. There

[1:04:28] s

[1:04:29] some old pines, they

[1:04:30] re

[1:04:30] distinctive. They

[1:04:31] re cedars,

[1:04:31] and they

[1:04:32] ve been there a long

[1:04:37] time. So with all of these

[1:04:38] considerations. I move to deny

[1:04:44] this annexation request. Mayor,

[1:04:46] I, I would just like to make a

[1:04:47] few points to to make sure the

[1:04:49] council understands. The, uh,

[1:04:50] the site plan that has been

[1:04:52] presented does have the pork

[1:04:52] chop that is to protect the

[1:04:55] traffic. To limit the, the

[1:04:58] left-hand turns. The only

[1:04:59] reason we know anything about

[1:05:01] tropical smoothie. The fact

[1:05:02] that there is a slight plane.

[1:05:02] There

[1:05:04] s a lot of annexations

[1:05:05] and rezonings that we don

[1:05:05] t

[1:05:05] know what

[1:05:07] s going to go there.

[1:05:08] But that property is owned by

[1:05:10] right, people have the right to

[1:05:11] move forward with development

[1:05:13] on that property. The 10th

[1:05:14] Street traffic, uh, uh, I

[1:05:15] ve

[1:05:17] said over and over again, yes,

[1:05:18] 10th Street, Memorial Drive. We

[1:05:20] have a lot of, of Of

[1:05:21] thoroughfares that are very

[1:05:23] important to us and that are

[1:05:26] that are that are um. That are,

[1:05:28] uh, unsafe in many ways, but

[1:05:28] ultimately what we

[1:05:29] re saying

[1:05:31] here is that are we going to

[1:05:32] basically just stop all

[1:05:33] development until 10th Street

[1:05:34] until dot does something. I

[1:05:35] mean, if that

[1:05:35] s what we

[1:05:35] re

[1:05:37] saying, we need to make sure

[1:05:38] that in dot understands that.

[1:05:39] But remember, we

[1:05:40] re only can

[1:05:41] stop it for those that you

[1:05:41] re

[1:05:44] not annexed. Or they have not

[1:05:45] had, um, the, the proper

[1:05:47] rezoning. Everyone else and in

[1:05:48] many ways it might

[1:05:50] disenfranchise those that are

[1:05:52] not annexed or have a, a, a

[1:05:54] proper zoning that

[1:05:54] s also

[1:05:55] authorized or supported by

[1:05:57] other Horizons plan. We just

[1:05:59] got to take that into

[1:05:59] consideration. I

[1:05:59] m just putting

[1:06:02] out points there. And then also,

[1:06:03] I think we also have to

[1:06:04] understand if we

[1:06:04] re, uh, if

[1:06:05] we

[1:06:06] re talking about uh looking

[1:06:07] at site plans that have already

[1:06:10] that That for a property that

[1:06:10] s

[1:06:12] already, um, would be allowed

[1:06:13] by right of use of that

[1:06:14] property, then we could just,

[1:06:15] we could put a stifle to

[1:06:18] development. As well, so I just

[1:06:20] wanna make those points. All

[1:06:20] right, there

[1:06:21] s been a motion

[1:06:26] made. Is there a second? I like

[1:06:26] she

[1:06:27] s been seconded by couples.

[1:06:28] Will you repeat the motion for

[1:06:30] me? Uh, motion to deny the

[1:06:34] request to annex. Um All right,

[1:06:35] Council member just you open up

[1:06:37] for comments. I like to comment,

[1:06:39] absolutely. First off, I, when

[1:06:40] we dealt with a similar issue

[1:06:42] as much on a smaller basis with

[1:06:44] the, uh, Port Comer Road. I

[1:06:46] went out and tried to get some

[1:06:47] education about the number of

[1:06:48] accidents and calls for service

[1:06:49] pedestrians, all that kind of

[1:06:52] stuff. If you recall, this

[1:06:53] council recall, very few and in

[1:06:54] fact had actually gone down one

[1:06:58] year. So I understand the

[1:07:00] opinion about The safety of

[1:07:02] this saying. But in reality,

[1:07:03] the facts don

[1:07:04] t support that.

[1:07:06] If you go make the inquiries,

[1:07:07] it does not support those

[1:07:09] opinions. You can disagree with

[1:07:11] me, but it do the diligence of

[1:07:12] calling and determining how

[1:07:13] many accidents happen, where

[1:07:15] they are, pedestrian strikes

[1:07:17] calls for emt and service in

[1:07:18] that regard, does not support

[1:07:19] that. I recognize there

[1:07:19] s a lot

[1:07:20] of traffic on that roadway just

[1:07:23] like there is in Arlington,

[1:07:24] pretty much every major

[1:07:25] thoroughfare in Greenville has

[1:07:26] traffic in the morning and the

[1:07:28] afternoon. My office is on

[1:07:29] Arlington Boulevard. It

[1:07:29] s crazy

[1:07:31] in the morning, crazy in the

[1:07:31] afternoon. How you deal with

[1:07:32] some of that, which we

[1:07:33] re not,

[1:07:35] which is a a part and parcel of

[1:07:36] this is you do traffic

[1:07:38] enforcement. And then you

[1:07:39] enforce those traffic tickets

[1:07:41] cited. And not, and not let

[1:07:42] them go on the buy side so

[1:07:44] people learn their lesson about

[1:07:46] speeding. We have to make

[1:07:47] assumptions that people are

[1:07:48] going to abide by the law when

[1:07:49] they don

[1:07:50] t, you take them and

[1:07:52] prosecute them. Simple as that.

[1:07:53] And so if you

[1:07:54] ve got a right in,

[1:07:55] right out, you

[1:07:55] re supposed to

[1:07:58] turn right out, right in. That

[1:07:58] means traffic only flowing in

[1:08:00] one direction. We have to

[1:08:01] assume people are going to

[1:08:03] follow the law. They don

[1:08:03] t you

[1:08:04] enforce the law against them.

[1:08:07] And so It doesn

[1:08:08] t support those

[1:08:10] opinions with the facts. And

[1:08:11] then second, the only way we

[1:08:13] can grow this city is if we

[1:08:16] develop it. And so basically as

[1:08:17] city manager said, do we just

[1:08:18] put all development on hold? On

[1:08:21] this section. I mean, is that

[1:08:21] what we

[1:08:23] re prepared to do?

[1:08:24] Because recognizing this is

[1:08:25] something that a lot of our

[1:08:26] citizens don

[1:08:28] t recognize. About

[1:08:31] 65 or 70% of our, our, uh,

[1:08:32] budget comes from real estate

[1:08:34] taxes and then property taxes.

[1:08:36] And one of the things we have a

[1:08:36] disadvantage is we can

[1:08:37] t tax

[1:08:39] all the property ecu has, which

[1:08:40] is millions and millions of

[1:08:42] dollars, as well as a hospital.

[1:08:43] So for us to grow, we

[1:08:43] ve got to

[1:08:46] grow by development. This is

[1:08:48] done properly. This is just the

[1:08:49] beginning process. They still

[1:08:50] got to go through a lot of

[1:08:51] hoops to get whatever they

[1:08:51] re

[1:08:53] going to put there put there.

[1:08:53] And so it

[1:08:55] s a $4 million piece

[1:08:56] of property and then you, it

[1:08:58] can only get bigger. And so,

[1:09:00] What do we say to a person

[1:09:00] s

[1:09:01] develop their piece of land.

[1:09:01] Well, we

[1:09:02] re going to put you on

[1:09:03] hold indefinitely until we

[1:09:05] decide what dot is going to do.

[1:09:07] Every city that develops has

[1:09:09] the same problem. Every single

[1:09:10] city, nobody can tell me

[1:09:11] otherwise or challenge me with

[1:09:12] the facts because every city,

[1:09:15] go to Raleigh. Go to Wilmington.

[1:09:16] They all have the same problem

[1:09:19] as you grow. And so, you know,

[1:09:19] if we

[1:09:20] ve got the right in and

[1:09:21] right out and you

[1:09:22] ve got the

[1:09:25] turnoff of oak down, uh, way, I

[1:09:26] mean, I went out there the

[1:09:28] other day looking at this piece

[1:09:29] of property and drove out

[1:09:31] during lunchtime, be very

[1:09:32] little traffic, and this is

[1:09:33] lunchtime, but I bet if you see

[1:09:33] it at 8 o

[1:09:34] clock in the morning,

[1:09:34] it

[1:09:35] s probably a lot of traffic,

[1:09:35] 5 o

[1:09:36] clock in the afternoon, a

[1:09:38] lot of traffic like there is in

[1:09:40] Arlington, Greenville Boulevard,

[1:09:42] uh, 14th Street, Memorial Drive,

[1:09:43] Highway 11, you can name every

[1:09:45] single one of them. You know, I

[1:09:46] just think that at some point,

[1:09:47] we don

[1:09:47] t, we shouldn

[1:09:48] t be

[1:09:48] picking and choosing which one.

[1:09:49] Developing or saying we

[1:09:50] re

[1:09:51] gonna stop all development

[1:09:52] because this has been a

[1:09:53] position of some people in this

[1:09:54] council, even for something as

[1:09:56] small as like the, the shop

[1:09:58] that was going to go on Portar

[1:09:59] Road. There

[1:09:59] s been no evidence

[1:10:00] that this is going to exceed

[1:10:02] the traffic volume of the

[1:10:02] highway, or that it

[1:10:03] s going to

[1:10:04] contribute to accents or some

[1:10:06] major traffic problem on this,

[1:10:07] uh, excuse me, accent problem

[1:10:09] on this highway. And again,

[1:10:11] look at the facts. So for all

[1:10:11] those reasons, I

[1:10:12] m, I

[1:10:12] m going

[1:10:14] to devote, vote against the

[1:10:14] motion is currently on the

[1:10:18] floor. You hear their comments?

[1:10:22] I have, um, a few comments. Uh,

[1:10:24] number one, when we look at

[1:10:28] supporting facts. Um, not just

[1:10:30] the facts of the number of

[1:10:32] trips coming in and out of that

[1:10:35] business, but the fact that we

[1:10:36] have already exceeded exceeded

[1:10:38] the amount of traffic that was

[1:10:39] planned to go up and down 10th

[1:10:43] Street. That is Uh, pretty well

[1:10:47] known fact, right, we know that

[1:10:49] we have an imbalance of the

[1:10:51] amount of traffic that

[1:10:52] s going

[1:10:54] on that road with the amount of

[1:10:56] residential properties um going

[1:10:59] there and we know that it is

[1:11:00] unsafe like we really know that.

[1:11:03] Um, when we talk about growing

[1:11:05] our city for development. Yes,

[1:11:07] we all want to see growth, but

[1:11:08] we want to see responsible

[1:11:14] growth. And gas stations, smoke

[1:11:17] shops, um, and, uh, restaurants,

[1:11:18] I don

[1:11:20] t look at as. Growth or

[1:11:27] development. Um So, uh, And,

[1:11:29] and whatever we do decide, it

[1:11:30] should be creating jobs. It

[1:11:31] should be creating jobs that

[1:11:34] pay livable wages. Um, all of

[1:11:37] those things so that we can

[1:11:40] utilize what we consider growth

[1:11:41] and development to actually

[1:11:42] address some of the root issues

[1:11:44] that we have in our community,

[1:11:46] which is housing and food

[1:11:49] insecurity. So, um, if it

[1:11:49] s not

[1:11:52] paying livable wages, number

[1:11:56] one, number 2, Offering a

[1:12:00] number of jobs that would

[1:12:01] actually uh create some

[1:12:02] economic opportunities for some

[1:12:04] of our citizens, then I don

[1:12:04] t

[1:12:07] know that I necessarily

[1:12:09] consider it responsible growth

[1:12:11] and development, um, and then

[1:12:14] lastly, what do we say to

[1:12:15] property owners and developers,

[1:12:17] I have a couple of things that

[1:12:17] I

[1:12:19] d like to say to property

[1:12:21] owners and developers. Number

[1:12:22] one, this city belongs to our

[1:12:24] residents. We

[1:12:28] re voted in by

[1:12:30] our residents. Um I am elected

[1:12:32] to represent them. I

[1:12:33] m not

[1:12:35] elected to represent special

[1:12:38] interests or developers. Um, so

[1:12:38] that

[1:12:40] s number one. Now I do

[1:12:40] believe in growth and

[1:12:42] development. And I do support

[1:12:46] that. But I support that when

[1:12:48] number one, you have

[1:12:49] communicated with our citizens

[1:12:50] and you have considered how

[1:12:51] your actions are going to

[1:12:55] impact their day to day lived

[1:12:58] experiences and number 2. Um,

[1:13:00] that you have considered how we

[1:13:03] need to protect and preserve

[1:13:04] the quality of life of our

[1:13:09] community. And part of that is

[1:13:11] considering what type of trees

[1:13:13] and vegetation is on properties.

[1:13:15] I think that we need to set

[1:13:17] some standards for what we want

[1:13:21] in our city, and we need to set

[1:13:22] standards even for a property

[1:13:23] owners and developers that this

[1:13:25] is how we would like you to

[1:13:27] move forward. When you want to

[1:13:32] be a business here. Um, So, uh,

[1:13:34] I appreciate. All of my

[1:13:37] co-counsel. But I will

[1:13:38] reiterate what I

[1:13:39] m elected to

[1:13:40] represent and I do that

[1:13:44] unapologetically. Just as a

[1:13:46] question. I was wondering if

[1:13:47] our traffic engineer could

[1:13:49] answer a question real quick

[1:13:50] about the traffic count that

[1:13:51] there was a statement that was

[1:13:55] made that Street exceeds the

[1:13:59] limit for the traffic count. I

[1:14:00] thought I remembered that being

[1:14:08] said before. Yes, sir. So

[1:14:08] there

[1:14:09] s a statement that was

[1:14:12] made about the traffic count in

[1:14:12] That we

[1:14:13] ve already exceeded the.

[1:14:16] I guess the allowable amount of

[1:14:17] traffic on 10th Street, is that

[1:14:17] I don

[1:14:18] t know what the exact

[1:14:20] capacity is, but the current

[1:14:25] adt is is 20. 2 24,000. And

[1:14:25] that

[1:14:27] s not at capacity as far

[1:14:29] as the roadway section goes.

[1:14:30] First place you

[1:14:30] re gonna lose

[1:14:31] capacity is at the

[1:14:35] intersections. Repeat that. I

[1:14:36] m

[1:14:37] sorry. I just want to hear him

[1:14:39] clearly. I, I didn

[1:14:39] t, I

[1:14:40] m sorry,

[1:14:41] I didn

[1:14:42] t hear that last part so

[1:14:45] I can hear you clearly. Zip sip

[1:14:47] the capacity of the roadway

[1:14:49] itself, which is basically a

[1:14:51] five-lane section is in

[1:14:53] excessive with the current adts,

[1:14:56] which is about 22, 24,000. So

[1:14:57] it

[1:14:58] s not exceeding capacity.

[1:14:59] The roadway section. We

[1:14:59] re

[1:15:00] going to first find the loss of,

[1:15:04] of Of uh capacity is at the

[1:15:07] intersections. Ok. So the

[1:15:11] section itself is Support can

[1:15:13] support this traffic, plus the

[1:15:14] residential development plus

[1:15:16] the small commercial pocket. As

[1:15:19] far as the section goes. And if

[1:15:22] I MAY, 10th Street, however, at

[1:15:24] this point was designated or

[1:15:25] was designed to be a

[1:15:26] thoroughfare and not a

[1:15:27] commercial corridor. That

[1:15:28] s

[1:15:28] true and that wouldn

[1:15:29] t, that

[1:15:30] would improve the capacity, yes.

[1:15:34] Right. Ok. Only because of the

[1:15:37] restrictions by the median. And

[1:15:37] that

[1:15:38] s the only reason. So when

[1:15:38] you have it doesn

[1:15:39] t, it doesn

[1:15:39] t

[1:15:41] add a travel lane. Going from

[1:15:42] what we have now. To a

[1:15:45] thoroughfare. So when you have

[1:15:48] a, a, a road, this designated

[1:15:50] designed as a thoroughfare that

[1:15:52] becomes a commercial corridor.

[1:15:52] You

[1:15:53] ve got the philosophy of

[1:15:54] moving people from point a to

[1:15:55] point b as fast as possible,

[1:15:56] but all of a sudden you

[1:15:58] ve got,

[1:16:01] uh, businesses and, uh,

[1:16:02] apartment complexes and

[1:16:02] dentist

[1:16:03] s office and pediatrics

[1:16:05] office and uh boat repair shops

[1:16:06] and all kinds of things

[1:16:08] happening that were not

[1:16:09] initially part of that

[1:16:11] assessment, but the difference

[1:16:12] in capacity comes because of

[1:16:16] the median. The median

[1:16:17] restricting access, especially

[1:16:19] the left turns. That

[1:16:20] s, that

[1:16:21] s

[1:16:22] where the improved capacity

[1:16:23] really comes from because it

[1:16:23] doesn

[1:16:24] t add a lane, it doesn

[1:16:24] t

[1:16:26] add a through lane. It

[1:16:26] s still

[1:16:28] gonna be 2 lanes in each

[1:16:29] direction, which the center

[1:16:30] turn. It would have a center

[1:16:31] median. That, that

[1:16:32] s, that

[1:16:33] s.

[1:16:35] That would be the next step.

[1:16:36] But we do not have a center

[1:16:37] median. There

[1:16:38] s just a a middle

[1:16:39] crazy lane. It

[1:16:39] s yeah, it

[1:16:40] s

[1:16:40] it

[1:16:43] d be an access management

[1:16:44] project to to improve the

[1:16:45] access management. Yes. Thank

[1:16:48] you. One other question for, I

[1:16:53] guess our city. Staff, um,

[1:16:55] Would we consider this to be

[1:16:56] like a mixed use development. I

[1:16:59] know these are two separate.

[1:17:00] Parcels and probably two

[1:17:01] separate owners. Would you

[1:17:02] consider this to be a mixed-use

[1:17:05] development. What

[1:17:07] s in red is

[1:17:07] just commercial or office.

[1:17:10] Right. So mixed use would

[1:17:10] typically mean you you

[1:17:11] re

[1:17:12] adding in a residential, the

[1:17:13] residential is wrapped around

[1:17:17] it. So holistically, yes,

[1:17:18] because we still have a back

[1:17:20] portion. That will eventually

[1:17:22] come in as well. Sure, I mean,

[1:17:22] that

[1:17:22] s, that

[1:17:23] s kind of what I

[1:17:25] meant. So as far as what is the

[1:17:25] city

[1:17:28] s. Stance on that, is that

[1:17:30] something the city supports?

[1:17:32] Because the city is in favor of

[1:17:36] this, correct? Right, this is,

[1:17:39] this was rezoned. 10 years ago.

[1:17:41] Um, what they are proposing to

[1:17:44] do is buy right, that means

[1:17:48] that that is, um, Reviewed by

[1:17:51] staff at City dot guc staff.

[1:17:51] That

[1:17:53] s why, um, we talked about

[1:17:54] city council doesn

[1:17:54] t see site

[1:17:58] plans. So And then again, this

[1:18:00] has already had dot involvement

[1:18:02] and approval on it. So it is,

[1:18:02] it

[1:18:03] s, it

[1:18:04] s gone through all of

[1:18:06] those hoops of review and

[1:18:08] approval. This is the

[1:18:10] essentially the last step that

[1:18:13] would be, um, That would come

[1:18:14] before council, I guess is what

[1:18:14] i

[1:18:17] m trying to say. So

[1:18:19] essentially if this were to be

[1:18:22] denied tonight. I go, maybe I

[1:18:24] might need some help from a, uh,

[1:18:26] an attorney too. With this,

[1:18:27] we

[1:18:27] re essentially telling the

[1:18:28] property owner that they cannot

[1:18:32] do anything with their. I will

[1:18:35] say this. I believe there is an

[1:18:37] avenue for them. She still gets

[1:18:39] sore. To still be able to

[1:18:48] develop. Any other questions or

[1:18:51] comments? Are we legally able

[1:18:54] to refuse annexation? Mm Uh,

[1:18:56] yes, this is a legislative

[1:18:58] decision and um This in the

[1:19:02] will of counsel, so. Mhm. It,

[1:19:02] oh, go ahead, ma

[1:19:05] am. I Just

[1:19:08] have a couple of Comments, um,

[1:19:10] Just the amount of development

[1:19:10] that

[1:19:11] s going in, again, I think

[1:19:12] we just need to slow down a

[1:19:13] little bit. There

[1:19:13] s a huge

[1:19:14] apartment complex, big doctor

[1:19:14] s

[1:19:18] office. Uh, gas stations stuff

[1:19:19] going down the street, um,

[1:19:19] there

[1:19:21] s just a lot going on at

[1:19:22] the same time, and My hope is

[1:19:24] that we find a way to slow this

[1:19:27] down a little bit, um. Because

[1:19:27] we

[1:19:29] re not stopping development.

[1:19:30] Development is happening all

[1:19:32] over the place, um, especially

[1:19:33] on 10th Street. There

[1:19:33] s a huge

[1:19:34] apartment complex coming online.

[1:19:35] There

[1:19:36] s a wah wah coming down

[1:19:37] the street. Um, there

[1:19:38] s brand

[1:19:39] new stores all up and down the

[1:19:40] street there. We

[1:19:40] re not

[1:19:43] stopping development. Um, but

[1:19:45] this is very different than the,

[1:19:46] the parcel we passed a couple

[1:19:48] of weeks ago. This is, is right

[1:19:50] on 10th Street. Um, it

[1:19:51] s right

[1:19:53] on a blind curve. And it

[1:19:53] s

[1:19:55] right in front of a gigantic

[1:19:56] apartment complex that

[1:19:56] s going

[1:20:00] to come online. Um And I I wish

[1:20:02] there was a stoplight at River

[1:20:03] Hills cause then it would be

[1:20:05] sort of sandwiched by two stop

[1:20:07] lights that would make a little

[1:20:08] bit easier, uh, you

[1:20:09] d have some

[1:20:10] breaks in the traffic at least.

[1:20:13] Um, and I wish that there was

[1:20:15] better access to Oakdown. I

[1:20:16] don

[1:20:16] t believe that anybody

[1:20:19] using that. Um, shopping center

[1:20:21] is gonna go through the

[1:20:22] apartment complex and out to

[1:20:26] the light, um. And this is very

[1:20:29] present to me, um. The, the

[1:20:31] safety of our city, my daughter

[1:20:33] was in a a car accident last

[1:20:35] week and, um, totaled her car,

[1:20:37] um, we was on Greenville

[1:20:39] Boulevard, but, um, It

[1:20:40] s a

[1:20:41] similar sort of issue. So it

[1:20:41] s

[1:20:44] just very presents to me, uh,

[1:20:46] sitting here in this chair

[1:20:47] today cause I know how

[1:20:48] dangerous it is, and I don

[1:20:48] t

[1:20:50] want to put anybody else

[1:20:50] s

[1:20:52] child at risk, um, driving up

[1:20:54] and down that road. So I, and I

[1:20:54] just don

[1:20:55] t have enough

[1:20:58] information today to make Um,

[1:20:59] an educated decision about this.

[1:21:03] i really Um, with all respect

[1:21:04] to you, council member in

[1:21:07] Blackburn. I, I would like to

[1:21:08] see us table this uh so that we

[1:21:09] have the opportunity to learn

[1:21:12] more about it. That possibility,

[1:21:13] Councilors, what, what

[1:21:15] information would you like to,

[1:21:15] you don

[1:21:17] t have I would like to

[1:21:19] learn more about the setup of

[1:21:20] the of the business and what

[1:21:21] the site plan looks like if

[1:21:21] it

[1:21:24] s legal for me to have that

[1:21:25] information, um, and I would

[1:21:27] like to know more about the

[1:21:28] setup of the streetscape in the

[1:21:30] apartment complex. What is the

[1:21:32] access like to Oaktown Way from

[1:21:34] that. I would like to know if

[1:21:35] we

[1:21:37] re following. Um The ideas

[1:21:41] set up. That we have setbacks

[1:21:42] created and Backstreets to

[1:21:43] allow for traffic to go from

[1:21:44] one place to the other without

[1:21:45] having to go on to the main

[1:21:47] thoroughfare. Um, they just

[1:21:49] have a lot of questions, um, I

[1:21:50] also want to know more about

[1:21:51] the trees that are there. I was

[1:21:54] out there today at 11:30 A.M.

[1:21:56] The traffic was very busy, um,

[1:21:57] I had a hard time getting in

[1:22:00] and out, um, to evolve way, um,

[1:22:01] and when I got onto the

[1:22:02] property, it

[1:22:03] s a beautiful

[1:22:04] piece of property. It

[1:22:04] s

[1:22:06] sandwiched in between that

[1:22:08] giant apartment complex, but

[1:22:08] it

[1:22:09] s gorgeous. There

[1:22:09] s really

[1:22:12] nice grove of cedar trees that

[1:22:13] are very old, um, that we need

[1:22:16] to learn about, um, and I I

[1:22:18] would hate that our city loses

[1:22:19] one more, uh, beautiful place.

[1:22:20] And I don

[1:22:20] t know that it

[1:22:21] s

[1:22:22] possible to save it, but could

[1:22:24] we work with the developer in

[1:22:26] order to try to, to save some

[1:22:27] of that growth, some of those

[1:22:30] trees, um, are there ways For

[1:22:32] us to, to work with them, uh,

[1:22:35] to develop in a more

[1:22:36] sustainable way, um, so I just

[1:22:37] have a lot of questions and,

[1:22:39] and, and, and again, I would

[1:22:41] remind council that, um, What

[1:22:42] would, what would the situation

[1:22:43] would be if we did not have a

[1:22:44] site plan. Sitting in front of

[1:22:47] us right now, which is 90 99%

[1:22:48] of the annex sessions that we

[1:22:49] have, we don

[1:22:49] t have not gotten

[1:22:52] to that point yet. So we

[1:22:52] re, I

[1:22:53] think we

[1:22:53] re, we

[1:22:54] re

[1:22:55] treating this one different

[1:22:56] because just because it has a

[1:22:58] sighting. Well, no, no, I mean,

[1:22:59] again I go back to, sir, with

[1:23:01] all due respect, I believe it

[1:23:02] is different because it is a, a

[1:23:03] very busy road. It

[1:23:04] s on a blind

[1:23:05] curve and it

[1:23:07] s in front of a

[1:23:08] brand new massive apartment

[1:23:11] complex. I, I think it does

[1:23:12] demand special attention

[1:23:13] because of the, the, the danger

[1:23:16] it. You know, poses towards my

[1:23:18] constituents in District 4. How

[1:23:19] would that decision be

[1:23:19] different if there wasn

[1:23:19] t a

[1:23:23] site plan. But for me, it

[1:23:23] wouldn

[1:23:26] t be different, um, and

[1:23:26] i know that there

[1:23:28] s the thought

[1:23:29] process of stifling development,

[1:23:31] um, I, I, I don

[1:23:32] t see it as

[1:23:34] much as stifling development. I

[1:23:35] think that for years our

[1:23:36] council has been weighted

[1:23:39] towards development. Often at

[1:23:41] the expense of the day to day

[1:23:42] lived experience of of of

[1:23:44] citizens and so for me it goes

[1:23:47] back to us needing to set some

[1:23:48] standards for our community, um,

[1:23:51] that are balanced. With the

[1:23:53] growth and development that we

[1:23:55] all desire, um, with the day to

[1:23:56] day lived experience and

[1:23:57] quality of life of our citizens.

[1:24:00] Um, so for me it wouldn

[1:24:01] t be

[1:24:02] that much different. And I

[1:24:02] d

[1:24:04] like to address something that

[1:24:06] perennially comes up. People

[1:24:07] being against development.

[1:24:08] That

[1:24:09] s a broad statement that

[1:24:11] is absolutely untrue. As

[1:24:12] council member Foreman just

[1:24:13] said, we are, we all want to

[1:24:16] see our city grow. We want to

[1:24:18] see it grow in responsible ways,

[1:24:19] and when you don

[1:24:19] t have

[1:24:20] infrastructure in place and

[1:24:20] when it

[1:24:21] s. When it

[1:24:24] s already a

[1:24:25] demonstratedly dangerous area.

[1:24:25] You

[1:24:26] re adding more stuff to it

[1:24:27] and as council member Scully

[1:24:28] said, you

[1:24:29] ve got this very,

[1:24:30] very large apartment complex

[1:24:34] taking shape. Until there are

[1:24:35] some improvements. We

[1:24:35] re not

[1:24:37] saying no development ever, no

[1:24:39] commercial, uh, activity ever,

[1:24:41] but until we have that

[1:24:42] infrastructure that should have

[1:24:44] been in place 10 years ago.

[1:24:47] Until we have that in place,

[1:24:47] it

[1:24:48] s just irresponsible and

[1:24:50] reckless to move forward with

[1:24:53] more commercial activity. MR.

[1:24:57] Attorney, um, just a question.

[1:25:00] Uh, by denying the request,

[1:25:02] does that put the city in an

[1:25:05] adverse position legally. Again,

[1:25:06] I think it

[1:25:06] s the legislative

[1:25:08] position, uh, it

[1:25:08] s legislative

[1:25:09] decision. I don

[1:25:09] t think it

[1:25:09] s

[1:25:11] adverse. It

[1:25:12] s it for the

[1:25:13] jurisdiction of the council to

[1:25:16] make that, that call. Um I

[1:25:17] don

[1:25:17] t, I don

[1:25:18] t know what

[1:25:19] options the developer would

[1:25:20] have if it is denied. I think

[1:25:20] it

[1:25:23] s in the etj and They, they

[1:25:24] would have maybe problems

[1:25:26] getting sore, but um. Because

[1:25:26] essentially they

[1:25:27] ve gone

[1:25:28] through the entire process,

[1:25:31] they paid. I guess probably

[1:25:34] lots of money for due diligence.

[1:25:34] They

[1:25:35] ve probably done

[1:25:36] environmental studies, they

[1:25:36] ve

[1:25:39] done a plat. And then they

[1:25:39] ve

[1:25:41] come to the city. For

[1:25:42] annexation and if the city

[1:25:45] denies it. They essentially

[1:25:46] cannot move forward. I know, I

[1:25:48] think our planner had said that

[1:25:48] there

[1:25:49] s a possibility that

[1:25:49] there

[1:25:50] s a way that they could

[1:25:53] still move forward with it. So

[1:25:54] in your opinion, you don

[1:25:54] t

[1:25:55] think that would put the city

[1:25:58] in a adverse position. I would

[1:25:59] need to research that Mayor,

[1:26:00] but uh it

[1:26:00] s a legislative

[1:26:01] decision. It

[1:26:01] s in the

[1:26:02] jurisdiction of the council to

[1:26:04] make the call here, um. You

[1:26:06] know, I do know, um, council

[1:26:07] member Scully asks for a motion

[1:26:09] to table, so that

[1:26:10] s something

[1:26:11] y

[1:26:11] all need to on the floor. So

[1:26:13] it was a recommendation. You

[1:26:14] know, there

[1:26:14] s a, the main

[1:26:16] motion on the floor is to deny

[1:26:17] and if you

[1:26:18] re making a motion

[1:26:19] to table or really a motion to

[1:26:22] postpone. That would take

[1:26:24] precedence, but is that Is

[1:26:25] there a second, you need to, a

[1:26:26] point of order, Mayor. I think

[1:26:27] you MAY want to see if there

[1:26:27] s

[1:26:31] a second to that. Is there a

[1:26:32] second motion to I would like

[1:26:34] to make a motion to postpone. I

[1:26:39] second. All right. So there

[1:26:39] s a

[1:26:43] motion made by Councilor Scully,

[1:26:43] seconded by council member,

[1:26:44] when we, I mean, you

[1:26:44] re

[1:26:47] postponing to what? To next

[1:26:49] month and to what date would

[1:26:52] you like this? Next month would

[1:26:53] be would be clarification, that

[1:26:54] was the main motion to deny it,

[1:26:57] but under Robert rules, a

[1:26:58] motion to postpone this takes

[1:26:59] precedence and they that

[1:26:59] s in

[1:27:00] you all

[1:27:01] s jurisdiction, so. Yes,

[1:27:03] sir. Thank you. All right, um,

[1:27:06] as far as clarification. City

[1:27:08] staff, do you need any

[1:27:10] clarification of what material

[1:27:13] that you need or what

[1:27:14] additional information, uh, the

[1:27:15] attorney can take care of the

[1:27:17] legal side, but what additional

[1:27:19] information would you like? I

[1:27:21] would like to know more about

[1:27:21] those trees. I

[1:27:23] d like to know.

[1:27:26] If any plans are made to put

[1:27:27] delineators or median on 10th

[1:27:29] Street. I

[1:27:31] d like to know. More

[1:27:32] about the infrastructure, the

[1:27:34] apartment complex and access to

[1:27:35] Oaktown Way from the commercial

[1:27:43] site. Everything else? Thank

[1:27:46] you very much. All right. Any

[1:27:47] other discussion before we take

[1:27:50] a vote on the motion? Yes, I, I

[1:27:53] have a comment. I really

[1:27:53] appreciate the thoughtfulness

[1:27:54] that Council member Scully has

[1:27:56] brought to this conversation

[1:27:57] and understand that, uh,

[1:27:59] because I feel very strongly

[1:28:00] about wanting to deny this, I

[1:28:00] m

[1:28:01] going to go ahead and vote

[1:28:02] against the motion to table,

[1:28:03] but I appreciate the

[1:28:04] thoughtfulness that you brought.

[1:28:06] To raising that as an option

[1:28:09] for us. Ok. Any other

[1:28:14] discussion. I get a show of

[1:28:18] hands, me. As far as The boat,

[1:28:20] yeah. Yeah, I can do that, yeah,

[1:28:21] absolutely. All right, so all

[1:28:24] those in favor. Of tabling this

[1:28:26] we said the next next month, is

[1:28:28] that correct? Mhm. Yes, sir. Do

[1:28:32] we have a specific date? So,

[1:28:34] the Thursday, yes, hold on.

[1:28:35] Just for the applicant

[1:28:36] s

[1:28:37] purpose so they know and

[1:28:39] anybody else. APRIL 10th. APRIL

[1:28:41] 10th and just to clarify the

[1:28:42] public hearing has been closed,

[1:28:45] this would be just simply for a

[1:28:46] discussion and a vote. Ok. All

[1:28:48] right, all those in favor

[1:28:53] please raise your hand. Ok.

[1:28:58] Those opposed, raise your hand.

[1:29:03] And I am in favor. Ok. So,

[1:29:09] Motion passes. 43. All right.

[1:29:09] Move on to the next public

[1:29:11] hearing. Thank you, Mayor. Item

[1:29:13] number 12 ordinance to annex

[1:29:14] the enclave, phase one property

[1:29:18] involving a total of 10.5683

[1:29:20] acres located at 520 plus or

[1:29:22] minus feet west of lt Hardy

[1:29:23] Road and south of the northern

[1:29:27] Suffolk. The Norfolk Southern

[1:29:28] Railroad call forward or uh

[1:29:29] city planner, Chris Kelly for

[1:29:33] the presentation. This property

[1:29:35] is located in the eastern part

[1:29:37] of the city, more specifically,

[1:29:39] this property is located 520 ft

[1:29:42] west of lt Hardy Road. And

[1:29:44] south of the Norfolk Southern

[1:29:45] Railroad, uh, just added

[1:29:46] reference north this is Walmart.

[1:29:49] This property is located in the

[1:29:50] Hardy Creek watershed, and if

[1:29:52] stormwater rules apply, it

[1:29:54] would require 10-year detention,

[1:29:56] the property is also located in

[1:29:57] primary service aerial and I

[1:29:59] growth map will be located in

[1:30:00] City council voting district

[1:30:03] number 4. This property is

[1:30:04] anticipated to yield 40

[1:30:05] multi-family units with an

[1:30:07] estimated tax value of $11

[1:30:08] million. I

[1:30:08] d be happy to answer

[1:30:09] any questions. All right, any

[1:30:18] questions for MR. Kelly? See

[1:30:19] none public hearings now open.

[1:30:20] Those speak on behalf of the

[1:30:21] applicant MAY come forward.

[1:30:21] Please state your name for the

[1:30:23] record. The first person has 10

[1:30:25] minutes. All others have 3

[1:30:44] minutes. See none. Those in

[1:30:44] opposition to the African MAY

[1:30:45] come forward, please state your

[1:30:46] name for the record. First

[1:30:48] person has 10 minutes, all

[1:31:06] others have 3 minutes. I ain

[1:31:06] t

[1:31:07] seen none. The public hearings

[1:31:07] now closed. I

[1:31:08] m for board

[1:31:09] discussion our motion to

[1:31:13] approve. I have some questions.

[1:31:14] Is there a is there a second?

[1:31:14] I

[1:31:16] d be happy to go ahead. Is

[1:31:18] there a second. All right,

[1:31:18] motion

[1:31:19] s been made by council

[1:31:20] member Robinson seconded by

[1:31:21] Councilor Scully. Councillor

[1:31:23] Mayor Blackburn, uh, yes, I

[1:31:24] have some questions and this,

[1:31:27] uh. Annexation raises some of

[1:31:29] the same issues, although

[1:31:31] perhaps not as acutely. Um, is

[1:31:33] it possible to get a view, uh,

[1:31:35] going back that kind of shows

[1:31:35] the area. I know we

[1:31:37] ve got, you

[1:31:39] know, Elsie Hardy, but is it

[1:31:40] possible to get, uh, I don

[1:31:40] t

[1:31:41] know, just almost like a Google

[1:31:42] map view. This is the same area.

[1:31:49] And, um, This is where we

[1:31:49] ve

[1:31:53] had, um, Rezonings, rezoning

[1:31:56] requests and, um, a lot of

[1:31:57] opposition because, again, the

[1:31:58] infrastructure is just not in

[1:32:00] place. Where will, if you don

[1:32:00] t

[1:32:02] mind, uh, MR. Kelly, where will

[1:32:05] the entrance and exit for this,

[1:32:05] uh, development be. Is that

[1:32:07] gonna be on lt Hardy Road? Yes,

[1:32:07] ma

[1:32:11] am. When we did this

[1:32:12] Previously, ok, we did the

[1:32:14] rezoning. This is the

[1:32:15] annexation. Ok, all right, so

[1:32:15] we, it

[1:32:16] s already been rezoned

[1:32:17] and I, which I did not support,

[1:32:19] so this is the next step for

[1:32:20] this. Yes, ma

[1:32:24] am. And so

[1:32:24] they

[1:32:25] re requesting annexation

[1:32:26] so they can have sewer. Yes,

[1:32:26] ma

[1:32:32] am. Um 10 acres, about how

[1:32:33] many can you tell me about how

[1:32:34] many units are gonna be on this

[1:32:37] property? Uh, phase one will

[1:32:39] include 40 multi-family units.

[1:32:40] And about how many, in other

[1:32:42] words, about how many, have any

[1:32:43] idea how many people, how many

[1:32:44] trips, that kind of thing. I

[1:32:47] know, traffic wise, no man, but

[1:32:49] people calculated at 87 number

[1:32:53] of people. 87 people. A lot, a

[1:32:56] lot of These are, um Do, are

[1:33:00] these the townhouses? Um Yes,

[1:33:00] ma

[1:33:04] am. Yeah. Ok. Ok, ok. So a

[1:33:06] little bit less intensive. Then

[1:33:09] uh say a multifamily. It, it

[1:33:09] s

[1:33:11] still multifamily. Right, but

[1:33:13] not like the, uh, the Louis and

[1:33:15] the 3, the 3 to an apartment

[1:33:17] kind of thing. I, if I remember

[1:33:19] when the rezoning came up. They

[1:33:21] have the cars can stay, uh, or

[1:33:22] can be parked underneath that

[1:33:25] kind of thing there. I don

[1:33:25] t

[1:33:26] know exactly. I don

[1:33:27] t know. Ok,

[1:33:30] all right. Thank you. Um, Chris,

[1:33:31] I have a question. You

[1:33:33] mentioned that, um, we don

[1:33:33] t

[1:33:34] know the increased number of

[1:33:35] trips. Is there a reason why we

[1:33:35] don

[1:33:37] t know for this one when

[1:33:41] not in others, we do know the

[1:33:42] increased number of traffic

[1:33:44] from traffic engineering during

[1:33:44] the rezoning before the

[1:33:45] annexation. No, ma

[1:33:46] am. Ok, got

[1:33:50] you. Thank you. All right, any

[1:33:53] other questions or discussions?

[1:33:57] Got a motion on the table. Mhm.

[1:34:02] All right. Motion is to approve

[1:34:04] the annexation, all those in

[1:34:06] favor say a those opposed say

[1:34:10] nay. Oh Oh that was a, I

[1:34:11] m

[1:34:12] really torn. I

[1:34:13] m really torn

[1:34:13] because I have the same concern.

[1:34:14] Well, we gotta, we gotta, we

[1:34:17] gotta be yes or no right now. I

[1:34:19] have the same concerns, but, um,

[1:34:19] they

[1:34:21] re slightly different. So,

[1:34:23] um, and we, for the record, we

[1:34:25] do, uh, appreciate the

[1:34:27] increased tax base, and I think

[1:34:27] that

[1:34:27] s important for

[1:34:29] development of this size, they

[1:34:30] do need to work immediately

[1:34:32] because I know the construction

[1:34:33] is already taking place. The

[1:34:35] clerk needs a yay or nay.

[1:34:35] Otherwise it

[1:34:37] s going to be 60.

[1:34:40] So I will, I will vote to

[1:34:40] approve this motion passes 6th

[1:34:42] year. Thank you. Thank you.

[1:34:43] Alright, we

[1:34:44] ll move on to the

[1:34:45] next public hearing. Thank you,

[1:34:48] Mayor. Item number 13 ordinance

[1:34:50] to annex Langston Farms phase

[1:34:54] 11, Section 3 and 4a property

[1:34:55] involving 10.4643 acres located

[1:34:58] at the current term terminus of

[1:35:00] De Meadow Drive in call forward

[1:35:01] or city planner Chris Kelly for

[1:35:08] the presentation. Um This

[1:35:09] property is located in the

[1:35:11] southwestern quadrant of the

[1:35:13] city, more specifically located

[1:35:14] at the current terminus of De

[1:35:17] Meadow Drive. This property

[1:35:18] drains to the Swift Swift Creek

[1:35:20] watershed, and if stormwater

[1:35:22] rules apply, will require a 25

[1:35:23] year detention. This property

[1:35:25] is also located in the primary

[1:35:26] service area on shared growth

[1:35:27] map, and we, and we

[1:35:28] ll be

[1:35:29] located at city council ot

[1:35:31] district number 2. This

[1:35:33] property is anticipated to

[1:35:34] yield 33 single-family lots

[1:35:38] with an estimated tax value of

[1:35:40] $8,250,000. I

[1:35:41] ll be happy to

[1:35:42] answer any questions for MR.

[1:35:50] Kelly? Sina, thank you very

[1:35:52] much. Public hearing is now

[1:35:53] open. Those who speak on behalf

[1:35:54] of the African MAY come forward.

[1:35:54] Please state your name for the

[1:35:56] record. The first person has 10

[1:35:57] minutes. All others have 3

[1:36:09] minutes. See none those in

[1:36:10] opposition to the outcome MAY

[1:36:10] come forward. Please state your

[1:36:11] name for the record. The first

[1:36:13] person has 10 minutes. All

[1:36:27] others have 3 minutes. See none.

[1:36:30] The public hearing is now

[1:36:31] closed, open for a board

[1:36:33] discussion or a motion. Motion

[1:36:34] to approve. Second. All right.

[1:36:34] Motion

[1:36:35] s been made by

[1:36:35] COUNCILMAN Robinson, seconded

[1:36:36] by COUNCILMAN Willis. Any other

[1:36:42] discussion? All those in favor

[1:36:45] say aye, as opposed say nay.

[1:36:46] Motion passed 60 on to the next

[1:36:48] public hearing. Thank you,

[1:36:49] Mayor. Item number 14,

[1:36:51] ordinance requested by Pitt

[1:36:52] County City of Greenville

[1:36:55] Airport Authority to rezone

[1:36:56] 29.719 acres located along the

[1:36:58] southern right of way of the

[1:37:00] Western Belbore Road in 1700

[1:37:01] plus amount of feet west of

[1:37:05] North Memorial Drive from ra20

[1:37:07] residential agriculture are not

[1:37:09] as residential single family

[1:37:11] and r6mh residential mobile

[1:37:13] home to iu on offensive

[1:37:13] industry. I

[1:37:14] ll now call forward

[1:37:16] our city, uh, chief planner,

[1:37:17] Shanti Guy for the presentation.

[1:37:24] Right. Good evening. Good

[1:37:26] evening. Um, this policy is

[1:37:27] located this policy. I

[1:37:29] m sorry,

[1:37:30] this property is located in the

[1:37:31] northern section of the city.

[1:37:33] Um, it

[1:37:33] s more specifically

[1:37:35] located, this would be North

[1:37:36] Memorial Drive on your

[1:37:38] right-hand side. Um, you see,

[1:37:39] uh, to your left and to the

[1:37:40] south, that

[1:37:41] s going to be the

[1:37:43] airport runways, um, in the

[1:37:45] corner, this is the dot

[1:37:46] Division 2 equipment shop. This

[1:37:49] is Belvoir Road. Property is

[1:37:52] shown outlined in yellow. But 2

[1:37:52] stars on this cause I

[1:37:53] m, I want

[1:37:54] to show you two different

[1:37:55] pictures and I just want to

[1:37:57] give you an idea of where these

[1:37:59] pictures are taken. Um, so this

[1:38:02] first picture, so this is, uh,

[1:38:03] the star that

[1:38:04] s directly south

[1:38:05] of Hop Tyson Road. So you

[1:38:05] re,

[1:38:05] you

[1:38:07] re looking to the south.

[1:38:08] That would be the airport in

[1:38:11] the uh on the horizon. And then

[1:38:13] this is the one closest to the

[1:38:14] runway. And again, you can see

[1:38:18] the airport in the horizon.

[1:38:19] Total property is almost 30

[1:38:24] acres. Um, some of the property

[1:38:25] is located in what we would

[1:38:27] call a special hazard area,

[1:38:29] which is basically the blue

[1:38:30] that you see. The property does

[1:38:32] drain to the Parker

[1:38:33] s Creek

[1:38:34] watershed. If stormwater rules,

[1:38:38] um, Apply, it would require

[1:38:40] 10-year detention, nitrogen and

[1:38:41] phosphorus reduction, and

[1:38:41] they

[1:38:43] re also MAY be

[1:38:43] jurisdictional wetlands,

[1:38:44] streams, and riparian buffers

[1:38:48] on the property. The requested

[1:38:50] zoning could generate a net

[1:38:52] increase of 262 trips per day.

[1:38:55] We were looking at this between,

[1:38:57] um, it is currently zoned

[1:38:57] residential and the industrial

[1:39:01] use. So under its current

[1:39:03] zoning, the property could

[1:39:05] yield about 55 single family

[1:39:06] homes and under the requested

[1:39:09] zoning, it could accommodate

[1:39:11] about 150,000 square feet of

[1:39:15] industrial or warehouse space.

[1:39:16] The future land use plan, uh,

[1:39:16] I

[1:39:17] m going to start here at the

[1:39:20] corner, which is at Memorial in

[1:39:23] Belvoir Road, um, the dot, uh,

[1:39:25] equipment office that is

[1:39:26] recommended for office

[1:39:27] institutional. You can see how

[1:39:29] that continues to the west. You

[1:39:31] have a little bit on the

[1:39:32] southern side of Belvoir Road

[1:39:35] and then the rest is

[1:39:36] recommended for industrial and

[1:39:41] logistics. Um, while this

[1:39:42] request is from the airport,

[1:39:44] the city and the county do have

[1:39:46] control over the property. Um,

[1:39:48] you MAY remember that city

[1:39:49] council did ask the airport to

[1:39:51] have at least one public

[1:39:54] meeting at the time when you

[1:39:54] authorize the rezoning

[1:39:56] application, um, the airport

[1:39:59] did hold two different meetings,

[1:40:00] um, AUGUST 6th and NOVEMBER

[1:40:00] 14th. I don

[1:40:02] t want to steal

[1:40:02] their, their thunder. I

[1:40:02] ll let

[1:40:03] them tell you about their

[1:40:04] meetings, but I did want to

[1:40:06] remind you that you did ask

[1:40:08] them to do that. Um, in staff

[1:40:08] s

[1:40:10] opinion, um, the requested

[1:40:11] zoning isn

[1:40:12] t compliance with

[1:40:14] future land use plans. And the

[1:40:17] horizons plan. Uh, staff

[1:40:19] recommends approval and pnz at

[1:40:21] their FEBRUARY 18th unanimously

[1:40:22] recommended approval of the

[1:40:23] request as well, and I

[1:40:24] ll be

[1:40:26] happy to answer any questions.

[1:40:32] Any questions for MISS Gooby?

[1:40:35] Thank you very much. Public

[1:40:35] hearings now open. Those who

[1:40:36] speak on behalf of the

[1:40:36] applicant MAY come forward.

[1:40:37] Please state your name for the

[1:40:40] record. The first person has 10

[1:40:41] minutes. All others have 3

[1:40:50] minutes. Good evening. Good

[1:40:52] evening. How

[1:40:55] s everybody? Good

[1:40:57] I need to lean one way or the

[1:40:59] other. Good evening, MR. Mayor,

[1:41:01] uh, council members and staff.

[1:41:02] My name is Drake Brinkley. I

[1:41:02] m

[1:41:03] a commercial real estate

[1:41:04] attorney and land use attorney

[1:41:05] here in Greenville with Warden

[1:41:06] Smith. I

[1:41:07] m here on behalf of

[1:41:09] the applicant, the Pitt County

[1:41:10] Greenville Airport Authority.

[1:41:12] We have a team of folks with us

[1:41:12] back there. They

[1:41:13] re all here to

[1:41:14] answer any questions towards

[1:41:15] the end that we MAY need, that

[1:41:17] you MAY have, excuse me. We

[1:41:17] ve

[1:41:19] got Bill Hopper in the back,

[1:41:21] the executive director of the

[1:41:22] Airport Authority, John Banks,

[1:41:24] CHAIRMAN Of the board of the

[1:41:25] Airport Authority, Terry Mundy,

[1:41:28] vice CHAIRMAN Of the Airport

[1:41:29] Authority, Brian Foundis is on

[1:41:31] the team with Art Consulting

[1:41:32] principal professional engineer,

[1:41:34] and the one person you MAY not

[1:41:35] know is Cara Veel here. Uh,

[1:41:35] she

[1:41:37] s also a professional

[1:41:38] engineer with McFarlane Johnson.

[1:41:38] She

[1:41:40] s kind of the faa expert on

[1:41:41] the team. Um, I

[1:41:41] m gonna speak

[1:41:43] for a few minutes and then

[1:41:44] Cairo will come up as well and

[1:41:46] speak and if you have any

[1:41:46] questions about faa, she would

[1:41:48] be the one to ask those

[1:41:49] questions to. But, but truly,

[1:41:50] if you have any questions, any

[1:41:52] of the team members are here to

[1:41:54] answer those questions. Um,

[1:41:56] this is a very important

[1:41:57] project for our airport. If

[1:41:57] there

[1:41:58] s one thing I can say

[1:42:00] tonight, this is an extremely

[1:42:01] important project for our

[1:42:03] airport. This is extremely

[1:42:05] important project for economic

[1:42:06] development, for wait for Pitt

[1:42:08] County, Greenville, the whole

[1:42:09] region. This is extremely

[1:42:10] important project. The airport

[1:42:12] has been working on this

[1:42:13] project for approximately 18

[1:42:14] months. So there

[1:42:14] s been a lot

[1:42:16] of time and a lot of expense

[1:42:19] put into this project. Um, as

[1:42:19] always, Ms Gooby

[1:42:21] s done a great

[1:42:22] job summarizing the application

[1:42:24] rather than going through all

[1:42:25] the technical and restating all

[1:42:25] that again. Um, I

[1:42:26] d like to say

[1:42:28] that we agree with all the

[1:42:29] technical portions of her

[1:42:31] summary. Uh, and we appreciate

[1:42:31] staff

[1:42:32] s recommendation of

[1:42:33] approval of this request. Um,

[1:42:34] I

[1:42:35] d also like to reiterate that

[1:42:37] planning a zoning commissions

[1:42:38] did unanimously recommend the

[1:42:41] approval of this request. There

[1:42:42] are a few things I do want to

[1:42:44] point out, um, the 5 parcels

[1:42:45] that were on the map a minute

[1:42:46] ago, they are all, if you

[1:42:48] notice, within the footprint of

[1:42:49] the airport. So they

[1:42:50] re already

[1:42:51] kind of on airport land is, is

[1:42:51] what I

[1:42:52] d say. And if you looked

[1:42:54] at it, you would think it is,

[1:42:55] it is part of the airport

[1:42:57] because it is right at the

[1:42:59] airport. Um. The purpose of the

[1:43:01] rezoning request is to allow

[1:43:02] for certain airport development

[1:43:04] that is compatible with

[1:43:05] existing airport operations.

[1:43:06] And to rezone that to

[1:43:08] unoffensive industry. Um, the

[1:43:10] one thing I will say too though

[1:43:11] is this application is way

[1:43:13] different than a lot of other

[1:43:13] rezoning applications from a

[1:43:16] practical standpoint. Ok? And

[1:43:18] the reason for that is because

[1:43:20] the faa is gonna have their

[1:43:22] hand over this, this whole area,

[1:43:25] ok? And so, uh, although a

[1:43:27] rezoning request does, as you

[1:43:28] all know, allow folks to build

[1:43:30] whatever is within the specific

[1:43:32] category. If the city code

[1:43:33] allows this many uses, the faa

[1:43:35] is gonna shrink that down quite

[1:43:38] a bit, ok? And so from an faa

[1:43:40] standpoint, we can only really

[1:43:41] use this property for

[1:43:42] aeronautical purposes, ok? And

[1:43:44] so from the faa standpoint,

[1:43:44] it

[1:43:45] s like charter aircraft.

[1:43:47] Business, uh, facilities,

[1:43:49] corporate hangars, aircraft

[1:43:50] maintenance, you know, charging

[1:43:51] stations for electric aircraft.

[1:43:53] Things like this are

[1:43:55] aeronautical type of support

[1:43:57] services, ok? Um, the airport

[1:43:59] has limited space and property

[1:43:59] available for development, and

[1:44:01] these properties have been

[1:44:02] previously identified for

[1:44:04] actually a number of years for

[1:44:04] this type of expansion and

[1:44:08] development. Um To summarize

[1:44:09] some of MISS Gooby

[1:44:10] s comments

[1:44:12] earlier, the, the current

[1:44:13] comprehensive plans and,

[1:44:15] frankly, prior comprehensive

[1:44:16] plans have expressly identified

[1:44:17] this area for the type of

[1:44:18] development allowed in on

[1:44:20] defensive industry. And the

[1:44:21] future land use plan designates

[1:44:24] a majority of this property as,

[1:44:24] uh, industrial logistics, like

[1:44:26] she said, which is

[1:44:28] characterized by warehouse and

[1:44:29] like manufacturing and includes

[1:44:31] the airport area. Uh, the comp

[1:44:33] plan goes on over and over

[1:44:33] again to emphasize the

[1:44:35] importance of the airport as an

[1:44:37] economic growth driver. I think

[1:44:38] we probably hopefully all agree

[1:44:40] on that, um, for the city and

[1:44:42] the surrounding area. And

[1:44:42] there

[1:44:42] s some statistics that

[1:44:44] have come out about that

[1:44:46] recently in a recent 2025 North

[1:44:48] Carolina State of aviation

[1:44:50] report. Overall, North Carolina

[1:44:52] airports created $88 billion

[1:44:54] worth of spending and output,

[1:44:58] um, accounts for 11% of the

[1:44:58] state

[1:45:00] s gdp supports 427,000

[1:45:01] jobs and generates 4.8. Billion

[1:45:02] dollars in state and local tax

[1:45:06] revenues. Um, so really what,

[1:45:06] what we

[1:45:08] re doing here is we are

[1:45:09] creating jobs. That

[1:45:09] s what

[1:45:10] we

[1:45:11] re trying to do. Uh, the

[1:45:14] airport is trying to, to Have

[1:45:16] support services there on their

[1:45:17] property to help and it, yes,

[1:45:18] if the things go the way we

[1:45:20] want them to go, yes, it would

[1:45:21] create jobs at the airport. But

[1:45:22] the other thing it does is

[1:45:24] support all the other

[1:45:25] businesses in our region,

[1:45:27] frankly, the region economic

[1:45:29] development here has to have a

[1:45:29] thriving airport at the end of

[1:45:30] the day. And that

[1:45:31] s what the

[1:45:32] airport is here is asking you

[1:45:35] to support that. Um, I do need

[1:45:36] to briefly mention on the

[1:45:37] community engagement for sure,

[1:45:37] that

[1:45:38] s a huge piece of this.

[1:45:40] And, and yes, we have had a

[1:45:42] number of, of meetings to be as

[1:45:43] transparent with everybody, uh,

[1:45:45] and get input from the

[1:45:46] surrounding property owners.

[1:45:47] Yes, it was not technically

[1:45:49] required of it, of us. We

[1:45:49] ve

[1:45:51] actually had 3 meetings, not 2.

[1:45:53] The first meeting was held, uh,

[1:45:55] more than a year ago back on

[1:45:57] OCTOBER 17, 2023, there was a

[1:45:59] second meeting on AUGUST 6,

[1:46:02] 2024, a third meeting on

[1:46:05] NOVEMBER 14th of 2024. Um, The

[1:46:07] airport engaged consultants to

[1:46:08] develop comprehensive visuals

[1:46:09] just to show the different

[1:46:10] types of things that could be

[1:46:13] done out there, um, we notified

[1:46:14] everybody for these meetings

[1:46:15] within the 250 ft radius. And

[1:46:17] as the, as we have more and

[1:46:18] more meetings and more people

[1:46:19] were interested in coming to

[1:46:20] those meetings. We then invited

[1:46:21] those people back even if they

[1:46:23] were outside of the 250 ft

[1:46:25] radius to the extent we had

[1:46:28] contact information, etc. Um I

[1:46:29] personally attended two of

[1:46:30] those meetings. I didn

[1:46:30] t attend

[1:46:30] the first one. I don

[1:46:31] t know if

[1:46:32] I was engaged at that point,

[1:46:33] but I attended two of those

[1:46:34] meetings. I felt like they went

[1:46:36] very well, um, at the final

[1:46:38] meeting. There were no negative

[1:46:40] comments about the project and

[1:46:43] the development of the project.

[1:46:44] Um, and so, now, one thing I do

[1:46:46] also want to say is that this

[1:46:48] is not the end for public

[1:46:50] engagement on this project. The

[1:46:52] faa also requires that. So it

[1:46:52] s,

[1:46:52] it

[1:46:53] s outside of the, the city

[1:46:53] s

[1:46:54] area, but, but there

[1:46:55] s, there

[1:46:56] s

[1:46:57] other opportunity for public

[1:46:58] engagement on this project as

[1:46:59] we move forward, which is a

[1:47:00] great opportunity for me to

[1:47:02] pass it off to to Cairo to

[1:47:03] explain some of that. But, um,

[1:47:04] but certainly if you have any

[1:47:06] questions before I do that, I

[1:47:06] m

[1:47:10] happy to, to take them. I don

[1:47:10] t

[1:47:12] know that I have questions as

[1:47:13] much as I do comment at this

[1:47:14] point, can I make a comment as

[1:47:15] home? Would you like me to wait?

[1:47:19] Probably just want to ask

[1:47:20] questions right now and then we

[1:47:21] can comment as soon as we close

[1:47:24] the public hearing. Ok. Thank

[1:47:33] you. One. My name is Kara

[1:47:34] Vogley, and I

[1:47:34] m a civil

[1:47:35] engineer with my friend Johnson.

[1:47:39] These North 24 parcels are

[1:47:40] owned and maintained by the

[1:47:41] airport and are part of the

[1:47:43] airfield footprint. However,

[1:47:44] the airport is limited in what

[1:47:45] it can do with the property

[1:47:47] under the current zoning and is

[1:47:49] also limited by the faa if the

[1:47:50] airport wants access to federal

[1:47:54] funding. Some of these faa

[1:47:55] design restrictions include

[1:47:57] using the land for airfield

[1:47:58] purposes, limiting the height

[1:47:59] of structures and objects which

[1:48:01] we call Part 77. And making

[1:48:03] sure the location of structures,

[1:48:05] objects, taxiways, aircraft

[1:48:07] parking, access roads, and more

[1:48:09] are outside of the appropriate

[1:48:12] airfield safety zones. Maintain

[1:48:13] access to this federal funding,

[1:48:15] the airport must abide by these

[1:48:16] faa design regulations and

[1:48:18] grant assurances. Which are

[1:48:19] specific requirements to

[1:48:20] maintain and operate the

[1:48:22] airport in a safe and

[1:48:24] serviceable condition. Limit

[1:48:25] airspace hazards. Use airport

[1:48:28] revenue properly. Ensure fair

[1:48:31] access for all users and more.

[1:48:32] The airport layoff plan is a

[1:48:34] document that we develop and

[1:48:35] submit to the faa that shows

[1:48:36] the 20 year future plan of the

[1:48:38] airport. This plan also shows

[1:48:40] where usable land is located

[1:48:41] based on those faa restrictions.

[1:48:44] And this shows that the North

[1:48:45] 24 site is the most suitable

[1:48:47] option. This land has direct

[1:48:49] access to the existing runway

[1:48:50] and taxiway and is large enough

[1:48:52] for development. The requested

[1:48:56] rezoning. We line the North 24

[1:48:58] property more closely with the

[1:48:59] existing airfield footprint,

[1:49:01] allowing for its use for

[1:49:02] various aviation-related

[1:49:03] purposes like Drake mentioned,

[1:49:04] charter aircraft, corporate

[1:49:08] hangars, and so on. The airport

[1:49:09] has encouraged community

[1:49:10] engagement, and we

[1:49:10] ll continue

[1:49:12] this as there will be a formal

[1:49:13] public comment period during

[1:49:14] the environmental assessment

[1:49:17] process. Once the faa

[1:49:18] requirements are met, the

[1:49:19] design process will begin with

[1:49:22] the following steps. We must

[1:49:25] develop and evaluate salt site

[1:49:26] alternatives to determine the

[1:49:26] specific use and layout of the

[1:49:29] property. And then create a pen

[1:49:31] and ink change to the airport

[1:49:32] layout plan with the preferred

[1:49:34] alternative. Then we

[1:49:35] ll gather

[1:49:37] data including assessments of

[1:49:38] cultural resources, noise and

[1:49:38] air quality, and traffic

[1:49:42] impacts. Then draft and submit

[1:49:43] the environmental assessment

[1:49:44] report, along with public

[1:49:46] comments and responses. Then

[1:49:47] the faa will review the

[1:49:49] submission and make a final

[1:49:50] decision on whether to proceed

[1:49:52] with the project. Again, the

[1:49:54] purpose of this rezoning is to

[1:49:56] have the ability to provide

[1:49:57] supporting uses immediately

[1:49:58] adjacent to the airport and to

[1:50:01] continue to grow and provide

[1:50:02] quality air air services for

[1:50:03] the city of Greenville and the

[1:50:07] surrounding area. Their custo

[1:50:08] own subject property is

[1:50:09] consistent with the existing

[1:50:11] zoning in the area, the

[1:50:12] development trends and the

[1:50:12] city

[1:50:15] s comprehensive plan. We

[1:50:16] respectfully request your

[1:50:18] approval of this rezoning

[1:50:19] application and our team is

[1:50:20] here to answer any questions

[1:50:22] you guys have. Thank you. Any

[1:50:29] questions? All right, thank you.

[1:50:33] Anyone else that would like to

[1:50:34] speak on behalf of the app MAY

[1:50:35] come forward. Please state your

[1:50:36] name for the record. You have 3

[1:51:04] minutes. Um, my name is Deborah

[1:51:08] Goldberg. And my husband and I

[1:51:10] stay in that neighboring area

[1:51:13] by the airport. And I would

[1:51:16] like to say again, like um.

[1:51:18] This black ones it but not

[1:51:19] against development, but they

[1:51:21] really want it. We caught a

[1:51:22] flight out of DECEMBER of last

[1:51:25] year. It was awesome. We love

[1:51:27] it we love the convenience, you

[1:51:29] know, just literally being able

[1:51:30] to almost touch the door and

[1:51:31] drive out, catch, catch a

[1:51:35] flight. It was great. Um, the

[1:51:35] only thing I

[1:51:36] m wanted to ask is.

[1:51:41] I think it was NOVEMBER 14th.

[1:51:45] There was a meeting And One of

[1:51:46] the meetings, I know at the end

[1:51:48] of last year. You guys showed

[1:51:50] where it was gonna be. A lot of

[1:51:53] things. Um, Open network like

[1:51:56] that little. Kind of like a

[1:51:57] line and then a little square

[1:52:00] coming out. So with the concern

[1:52:01] about the trees, are you guys

[1:52:03] still gonna, I know several

[1:52:04] plans if I

[1:52:06] m not mistaken. So

[1:52:08] is there gonna be a line of

[1:52:09] trees that will be planted up

[1:52:10] in there to kind of be like a

[1:52:13] filter. More than any kind of

[1:52:14] noise or air pollution or

[1:52:32] sounds. I Um again, Brian

[1:52:34] Pagundis, uh, the short version

[1:52:36] is the city has ordinances that

[1:52:38] are gonna require since the

[1:52:40] airport is a more intense land

[1:52:41] use than the neighbors against

[1:52:43] it where you guys live. Ok. The

[1:52:44] city has ordinances that are

[1:52:45] going to require us to have a

[1:52:49] vegetated buffer. Between the

[1:52:51] airport property and you guys.

[1:52:53] So my expectation is at minimum,

[1:52:55] you end up with evergreen.

[1:52:57] Plantings and a fence. MAY even

[1:52:59] end up with a berm, an earthen

[1:53:02] berm. Between as well with that

[1:53:04] vegetation MAY wind up on. So

[1:53:05] picture a hill with trees on it

[1:53:07] and then a fence, so you, you

[1:53:08] have. There, there

[1:53:09] s a couple

[1:53:12] of different things that, that.

[1:53:13] Impose that one is city

[1:53:15] regulation, the other will be

[1:53:16] dealing with the faa through

[1:53:18] their process with some of the

[1:53:19] requirements that part of the

[1:53:21] environmental assessment that

[1:53:22] Noises a consideration, so

[1:53:22] that

[1:53:23] ll be part of part of you

[1:53:24] help for some of that. And is

[1:53:27] it And I directly that there

[1:53:27] s

[1:53:30] going to be another, about it

[1:53:32] ok and just make sure

[1:53:32] everything, Correct. There

[1:53:32] s

[1:53:35] really safe and, Correct,

[1:53:35] there

[1:53:36] s public notification as

[1:53:38] part of that process, and part

[1:53:40] of that is notification and

[1:53:40] subsequent meetings and that

[1:53:40] s

[1:53:41] all open to the public and you

[1:53:45] guys will be notified. So that,

[1:53:48] that, um, tree barrier that.

[1:53:50] That, is that going to also go,

[1:53:52] so when you turn, when you come

[1:53:52] off of that, let

[1:53:53] s go. You

[1:53:59] trying on Just that that down

[1:54:03] there too as well. Just that

[1:54:03] I

[1:54:04] m not entirely sure if I

[1:54:05] m

[1:54:08] Following you, but basically

[1:54:09] anywhere the airport property

[1:54:09] that

[1:54:11] s being developed adjoins.

[1:54:14] The periphery, this this

[1:54:15] residential, it

[1:54:15] ll require that

[1:54:16] buffer. Ok. So, it

[1:54:17] ll probably

[1:54:21] be that. That little on that

[1:54:22] street and then you turn. This

[1:54:23] is a, there

[1:54:24] s a fence right

[1:54:26] there too, so yeah, it, it MAY,

[1:54:26] I don

[1:54:27] t know for sure if it

[1:54:27] ll

[1:54:28] turn the corner, but it MAY

[1:54:29] turn the corner. There are a

[1:54:30] lot of utility easements in

[1:54:32] that area, so that could

[1:54:33] prevent, you know, that you

[1:54:35] basically where West bellboard

[1:54:36] dead ends now that could

[1:54:37] prevent some of those across

[1:54:39] the dead end, end of the street

[1:54:41] there. Ok. Can I ask a quick

[1:54:44] question for point of clarity

[1:54:46] for those citizens, um, and so

[1:54:48] that is, uh, the vegetation

[1:54:51] buffer is like 500. Uh, feet

[1:54:52] from the backyard of those

[1:54:54] citizens on that side is that,

[1:54:55] is that correct? I

[1:54:55] ve been

[1:54:57] making up a number if I told

[1:54:59] you yes or no. I, I was just

[1:55:01] wondering if that was correct.

[1:55:01] So it

[1:55:03] ll run the line with,

[1:55:04] with the back what we call the

[1:55:05] north side of the airport

[1:55:09] property. Thank you. So help.

[1:55:10] Thank you. Thank you guys.

[1:55:13] Thanks, MS. Goldberg. Anyone

[1:55:15] else that would like to speak

[1:55:17] in favor of the app MAY come

[1:55:18] forward. You have 3 minutes.

[1:55:19] Please state your name for the

[1:55:31] record. All right, see none.

[1:55:32] Those in opposition to the

[1:55:33] applicant MAY come forward.

[1:55:34] Please state your name for the

[1:55:36] record. The first person has 10

[1:55:37] minutes, all others have 3

[1:55:52] minutes. All right, see no

[1:55:53] public hearing is now closed,

[1:55:54] open for a board discussion or

[1:55:57] a motion. Motion to approve.

[1:55:59] Seconds. All right, so I got a

[1:55:59] motion by Council member

[1:56:01] Robinson, seconded by Council

[1:56:04] member Scully. Council member

[1:56:06] Willis, my comment was I

[1:56:09] appreciate the airports, um,

[1:56:10] due diligence and um adhering

[1:56:12] to our requests and seemingly

[1:56:14] going beyond that with the 3

[1:56:16] meetings, um, as opposed to the

[1:56:16] one, so that

[1:56:18] s noted. Mhm All

[1:56:20] right, any other comments? I do.

[1:56:23] I agree. Um, I also want to

[1:56:26] commend you all, um, and thank

[1:56:28] you for listening, uh, as far

[1:56:29] as uh doing community

[1:56:31] engagement. I know I can

[1:56:32] sometimes come across as tough

[1:56:36] on these topics. Um, but, um,

[1:56:40] that thought process for me. No,

[1:56:41] um, that thought process for me

[1:56:43] is an order of operations, and

[1:56:44] that order of operations is

[1:56:46] that if we put people first, we

[1:56:48] cannot go wrong. We don

[1:56:49] t make

[1:56:50] decisions that impact people

[1:56:53] without them. And so the uh

[1:56:54] extensive amount of community

[1:56:55] engagement that you guys did

[1:56:59] made a difference. Um You all

[1:57:02] turned apprehension. In

[1:57:07] advocacy. I personally went out

[1:57:09] to Oelbo Road with uh members

[1:57:12] of Nora and talked to citizens

[1:57:15] that live on that little strip

[1:57:19] um behind that area and um

[1:57:19] particularly MR. William

[1:57:23] Wilkins. Shared with me that

[1:57:27] not only did you all do the, uh,

[1:57:28] meetings that we requested and

[1:57:29] we all remember that first

[1:57:31] meeting, it was kind of a hot

[1:57:34] mess. Um, but it developed and

[1:57:37] grew throughout to where the

[1:57:38] citizens started supporting you

[1:57:39] and that was because they had

[1:57:42] input. Um, he was very

[1:57:44] appreciative of the fact that

[1:57:45] not only did we have those

[1:57:46] meetings and what you all don

[1:57:46] t

[1:57:49] know is that I had meetings

[1:57:49] personally in between those

[1:57:52] meetings. Um, because one of

[1:57:55] the questions that they had,

[1:57:57] they did not understand what we

[1:57:58] were talking about about

[1:58:00] expansion. When citizens think

[1:58:01] of expansion, they think that

[1:58:04] you all are asking for us to

[1:58:05] bring in more flights to

[1:58:08] accommodate them. And helping

[1:58:09] them understand that no, they

[1:58:12] want to bring in bunkers to

[1:58:14] service, uh, private jets and

[1:58:15] bring in more income, which

[1:58:17] will bring in more tax dollars

[1:58:19] and blah, you know, so on and

[1:58:23] so forth, um. So your efforts.

[1:58:27] Made the difference. And for

[1:58:28] everyone else, that is the

[1:58:29] example that I

[1:58:30] m saying about

[1:58:33] us setting standards. On what

[1:58:37] we expect. Developers to do

[1:58:40] when they want to build in our

[1:58:43] city or our etj or expand. Um,

[1:58:45] you all set the example of how

[1:58:47] to do that and to listen to our

[1:58:48] citizens and I so greatly

[1:58:52] appreciate you. All right, any

[1:58:53] other comments or discussion

[1:58:58] before we vote? All right. All

[1:59:00] those in favor say aye, those

[1:59:03] pose say nay. Motion passes 6

[1:59:05] to 0. Move on to item number 15,

[1:59:07] MR. Manager. Yeah, no, you

[1:59:07] re

[1:59:10] fine, last but not least I

[1:59:10] m

[1:59:13] number 15. Ordnance requested

[1:59:15] by the planning and Development

[1:59:16] Services Department to amend

[1:59:20] Title 9, chapter 4 article in

[1:59:23] Signs section 233, special

[1:59:24] provisions for certain signs by

[1:59:26] adding a definition in

[1:59:27] standards for official

[1:59:29] government flags in the

[1:59:32] following zoning districts, cg

[1:59:35] General Commercial ch Heavy

[1:59:38] commercial piu plan on

[1:59:39] offensive industry pr planning

[1:59:41] industry. Are you on offensive

[1:59:44] industry and, uh, industry with

[1:59:46] a maximum flagpole height not

[1:59:49] to exceed 130 ft at grade and a

[1:59:51] maximum flag size of no more

[1:59:53] than 3200 square feet. I will

[1:59:55] now ask our chief planner

[1:59:55] Shante Gubi to give the

[2:00:01] presentation. So I

[2:00:02] m gonna

[2:00:04] start with just a little brief

[2:00:04] history. I don

[2:00:05] t want to

[2:00:05] belabor the point, but I kind

[2:00:08] of just want to bring this up

[2:00:11] to current, how we got here, um,

[2:00:13] in OCTOBER of last year, staff

[2:00:14] received a complaint about a

[2:00:17] very large flag, um, staff, uh,

[2:00:19] did go out, do a site visit, um.

[2:00:23] On OCTOBER 31st, a notice of

[2:00:25] violation was sent to the

[2:00:26] property owner, uh, due to the

[2:00:29] size of the flag. So, NOVEMBER

[2:00:31] 12th, uh, Camping World did

[2:00:32] contact staff concerning the

[2:00:35] notice of violation. Um Staff

[2:00:38] did explain to them the issue,

[2:00:40] which was currently, um, our

[2:00:42] ordinance only allows a 216

[2:00:43] square foot flag, and there

[2:00:47] s

[2:00:47] appeared to be much larger than

[2:00:47] that. Um, they did let us know

[2:00:48] their flag was 3200 square feet.

[2:00:52] Um, we discussed, uh, possible

[2:00:54] remedy, which was to amend the

[2:00:55] ordinance or a text amendment

[2:00:58] like we have here every month.

[2:01:01] Um, we explained the process in

[2:01:03] NOVEMBER 5th, 15th, Camping

[2:01:06] World submitted a text

[2:01:08] amendment that, um, would

[2:01:09] remedy their situation as far

[2:01:10] as the size of the flag and the

[2:01:13] flagpole. Um, after reviewing

[2:01:15] it, staff did notify Camping

[2:01:16] World that we would have to

[2:01:19] recommend, uh, the text

[2:01:21] amendment as they, um, uh, had

[2:01:23] proposed it. We did not receive

[2:01:24] any follow-up from Camping

[2:01:27] World, um, but for the lack of

[2:01:28] communication on Camp and world

[2:01:30] side, there is always a

[2:01:32] possibility that city staff and

[2:01:34] Camp and World, um, could have

[2:01:36] possibly come up to come up

[2:01:39] with a text amendment, um, that

[2:01:40] could have remedied their

[2:01:43] situation. This tax amendment

[2:01:45] went forward DECEMBER 17th,

[2:01:47] planning and zoning recommended

[2:01:48] denial. That same request came

[2:01:51] to council in JANUARY of this

[2:01:52] year, council recommended

[2:01:58] denial. And so, um, we are back

[2:01:59] because counsel asked staff to

[2:02:01] bring forth a text amendment.

[2:02:03] So I just wanna just. Go ahead

[2:02:05] and talk about what, uh, what

[2:02:08] we have right now. So I took

[2:02:09] this photograph JANUARY 28th.

[2:02:10] This was taken across the

[2:02:13] street from, uh, the ice

[2:02:15] skating rink. So you have their

[2:02:17] flagpole, which is 130 ft, and

[2:02:18] that

[2:02:19] s essentially the piece

[2:02:21] that you see, right? You have a

[2:02:22] flag that

[2:02:25] s 40 by 80. Which is

[2:02:27] 3200 square feet. And then I

[2:02:29] also wanted to provide you sort

[2:02:32] of a plot plan of where this

[2:02:33] flagpole actually is on the

[2:02:36] property because it is so large,

[2:02:38] you tend to not have an idea of

[2:02:40] how far back it is from the

[2:02:41] road. So I

[2:02:41] ve put a yellow star.

[2:02:44] Um, across the street. This

[2:02:46] would be, um, the ice skating

[2:02:49] rink. And so just easy measure,

[2:02:49] it

[2:02:50] s about 100 ft from the

[2:02:51] right of way off of Red Banks

[2:02:57] Road. It is 155 ft from Evans

[2:02:58] Street and then from the corner

[2:02:59] itself it

[2:03:02] s about 220 ft. So

[2:03:05] this is a summary of what

[2:03:05] Camping World

[2:03:07] s request was, um,

[2:03:11] it was for non-commercial flags.

[2:03:13] It involved 16 different

[2:03:13] non-residential zoning

[2:03:17] districts. It allowed 3

[2:03:19] flagpoles, 3 flags. That would

[2:03:23] be a total of 9 flags with a

[2:03:25] total square footage of 28,000

[2:03:29] square feet. Maximum maximum

[2:03:31] flagpole height 130 ft. There

[2:03:34] was no minimum lot size for a

[2:03:37] qualifying property. Um, there

[2:03:39] was no zoning permit required,

[2:03:40] only a building permit because

[2:03:42] the flagpole and the way that

[2:03:42] it

[2:03:44] s installed. And then there

[2:03:44] weren

[2:03:45] t any setbacks for the

[2:03:49] flagpole itself. So this is a

[2:03:50] map, you

[2:03:52] ve seen it before.

[2:03:55] This map illustrates, um, the

[2:03:57] properties of the 16

[2:03:57] non-residential zoning

[2:03:59] districts. So the zoning

[2:04:00] districts you see on the

[2:04:01] right-hand side, those are

[2:04:06] illustrated on the map as red.

[2:04:09] Just a very easy graphic of

[2:04:12] what their text amendment 3

[2:04:14] flagpoles, 3 flags each, up to

[2:04:20] 3200 square square feet. So As

[2:04:22] staff was directed to come up

[2:04:26] with um a text amendment, uh,

[2:04:28] we looked at what we saw were

[2:04:31] the defense the dis the

[2:04:33] deficiencies with the original

[2:04:34] request, and I want to go

[2:04:36] through what we looked at and

[2:04:39] then how we sought to correct

[2:04:40] those. Um, the first thing we

[2:04:43] looked at was the flag type at

[2:04:44] that time they

[2:04:45] re text

[2:04:46] amendment was non-commercial,

[2:04:50] which is very broad. So we have

[2:04:52] limited this to official

[2:04:53] government flags have a

[2:04:55] definition of a few slides back

[2:04:56] that we

[2:04:57] ll get to. We also

[2:04:58] looked at the zoning districts

[2:05:01] and a way to reduce those

[2:05:02] zoning districts. So we have

[2:05:06] reduced it from. The 16 that

[2:05:09] they asked to 6. We added a

[2:05:10] minimum property size. It

[2:05:10] s a

[2:05:12] large flag, so we decided there

[2:05:15] should be some kind of

[2:05:16] clarifier in the size of

[2:05:18] property that could have a flag

[2:05:21] that size. So we have added in

[2:05:22] a minimum size of at least 5

[2:05:26] acres. Also with this text

[2:05:27] amendment, we reduced it down

[2:05:30] very simply. One flagpole, one

[2:05:35] flag up to 3200 square feet. We

[2:05:36] added setback requirements. So

[2:05:37] essentially we

[2:05:38] re treating the

[2:05:40] flag as a structure, or the

[2:05:42] flagpole itself. So the

[2:05:44] flagpole has to abide by the

[2:05:46] setbacks of the zoning district

[2:05:46] it

[2:05:50] s in. And then, um, the last

[2:05:53] thing we did was we included a

[2:05:57] zoning approval. Um, the, Um,

[2:05:59] their text amendment. Tried to

[2:06:01] put the flags in a category of

[2:06:02] where they didn

[2:06:04] t have to be

[2:06:06] approved by zoning. So we have

[2:06:08] added that flags in in this

[2:06:09] category. I, I

[2:06:09] ll, I

[2:06:11] ll call it,

[2:06:14] um, does have to go through, um,

[2:06:15] a zoning permit, uh, or zoning

[2:06:17] compliance permit. It already

[2:06:19] has to have a building permit

[2:06:19] because again, it

[2:06:20] s a 130 ft

[2:06:25] flat pole. So just a quick

[2:06:27] summary again, uh, we distilled

[2:06:31] this down to only 6 districts.

[2:06:31] Those districts are

[2:06:33] non-residential. One pole, one

[2:06:38] flag. Up to 3200 square feet.

[2:06:40] Flagpole height stays the same.

[2:06:41] Property has to be a minimum of

[2:06:44] 5 acres. Um, still requires

[2:06:45] building permit, but you

[2:06:45] ll

[2:06:46] also be required a zoning

[2:06:50] permit. And again, the flagpole

[2:06:51] was treated um as a structure,

[2:06:54] so it will have to abide by the

[2:06:59] setbacks for that district. So

[2:07:00] this map shows you right-hand

[2:07:01] side, you have those 6

[2:07:04] districts that we listed. And

[2:07:06] then those districts are shown

[2:07:10] on red. We also sifted out any

[2:07:12] properties less than 5 acres.

[2:07:14] So the best way I can describe

[2:07:16] this to you isunities is what

[2:07:18] this red map looks like or what

[2:07:19] this red map sort of

[2:07:23] illustrating. Again, one flag,

[2:07:28] one pole. For flat type, we

[2:07:30] added a definition for official

[2:07:33] government flags. So again,

[2:07:34] these standards only apply to

[2:07:37] this kind of flag. We have

[2:07:40] added a specific definition.

[2:07:42] This is actually borrowed from

[2:07:44] North Carolina General statutes.

[2:07:46] So flags in this category would

[2:07:49] be the flag of the us flags of

[2:07:51] nations recognized by the us,

[2:07:54] the North Carolina state flag.

[2:07:56] Flag of a state or a territory

[2:08:00] of the us and then number 5,

[2:08:01] flags of political subdivisions,

[2:08:04] essentially a county or a city

[2:08:08] flag within the us. Some

[2:08:10] additional standards that we

[2:08:12] have added, um, it MAY have

[2:08:14] indirect lighting. So again,

[2:08:17] like from the ground up. Um, we

[2:08:19] did add a measurement, which is

[2:08:20] 1 ft candle. Again, that

[2:08:20] s very

[2:08:25] dim. Um Another, another piece

[2:08:27] that we added in is that the

[2:08:29] flagpole in the flag has to be

[2:08:31] an accessory to a primary use.

[2:08:34] So what that means is a vacant

[2:08:34] property would not qualify for

[2:08:37] a flag. It has to have a

[2:08:39] primary use, a restaurant, a

[2:08:41] store, a car wash. Um, of

[2:08:42] course, the flagpole and the

[2:08:43] flag have to remain in good

[2:08:46] repair. And then the last piece,

[2:08:48] um, this is not an uncommon

[2:08:50] rule. Um, the flagpole does

[2:08:52] have to be located 100 ft from

[2:08:53] the intersection of two streets,

[2:08:54] and it showed you on my plot

[2:08:56] plan, it

[2:08:57] s about 220 ft from

[2:09:02] the intersection. This is just

[2:09:05] a a very distilled version to

[2:09:07] compare the differences, uh,

[2:09:09] between the two separate

[2:09:10] requests. So the camp in World

[2:09:13] request is in the center cities,

[2:09:15] uh, request is on the

[2:09:18] right-hand side. Again, we have

[2:09:20] distilled it down from just a

[2:09:22] non-commercial flag to an

[2:09:23] official government flag. Um,

[2:09:24] we, we

[2:09:27] ve reduced it from 16

[2:09:29] districts to 6, reduced it down

[2:09:29] to one flag. We

[2:09:31] ve also added

[2:09:33] in a minimum lot size, you

[2:09:33] re

[2:09:34] gonna have to get zoning

[2:09:36] approval. And again, we

[2:09:36] ve also

[2:09:40] added setbacks as well. A

[2:09:42] comparison of just if you

[2:09:45] looked at the zoning itself and

[2:09:45] how it

[2:09:46] s symbolized um camp in

[2:09:46] World

[2:09:48] s request would be on the

[2:09:50] left-hand side. So again, all

[2:09:51] of those uh red properties,

[2:09:53] again, you could sort of look

[2:09:56] at those as opportunities and

[2:09:56] then staff

[2:09:59] s request, again,

[2:10:01] 6th districts at least 5, acres

[2:10:03] in size. And then just to give

[2:10:06] you some trivia, um, Camping

[2:10:09] World, uh, request included a

[2:10:13] most Um, 1250 parcels. The

[2:10:14] city

[2:10:15] s request is less than 300

[2:10:18] parcels. So again, to give you

[2:10:19] the difference in lessening the

[2:10:26] opportunity. So in staff

[2:10:26] s

[2:10:29] opinion, um, this text

[2:10:31] amendment is in compliance with

[2:10:33] the Horizons plan specifically

[2:10:34] chapter one, Building great

[2:10:36] places. I am not going to read

[2:10:38] all of this to you, just to

[2:10:40] distill it very simply. This is

[2:10:43] talking about the, the visual

[2:10:45] appeal of your street, the

[2:10:46] aesthetics. That is essentially

[2:10:49] what this is getting at. And so

[2:10:49] in staff

[2:10:50] s opinion, this text

[2:10:52] amendment does meet the intent

[2:10:57] of this. Little unusual, so in

[2:11:00] FEBRUARY, uh, planning and

[2:11:00] zoning recommended denial 5 to

[2:11:05] 4. Of the request and then they

[2:11:07] also made a subsequent motion,

[2:11:09] and this was unanimous to

[2:11:10] recommend a council a

[2:11:13] modification. To the text

[2:11:15] amendment. Essentially that the

[2:11:18] maximum flag size should not

[2:11:20] exceed 760 square feet. Where

[2:11:22] that number comes from is tied

[2:11:24] back to flag code. So that

[2:11:24] s

[2:11:26] where the 760 square feet comes

[2:11:29] from. And again, this goes back

[2:11:31] to flag, um, etiquette and

[2:11:34] decorum. And then I just want

[2:11:37] to give you the next steps if

[2:11:38] you approve this request, um,

[2:11:40] the next steps would be

[2:11:41] obviously camp and world would

[2:11:44] have to apply for a zoning

[2:11:45] permit that would also have to

[2:11:49] go back through the the.

[2:11:51] Building permit process, um,

[2:11:52] there would be inspections and

[2:11:54] then hopefully at the very end,

[2:11:55] if they jump through all the

[2:11:57] hoops, they would obtain a

[2:11:59] certificate of compliance. And

[2:12:00] with that, I

[2:12:02] m at the end of my

[2:12:02] slides. I

[2:12:03] ll be glad to answer

[2:12:05] any questions. How many, uh,

[2:12:08] how long of a process is it

[2:12:09] once they apply for the new

[2:12:15] permits. Typically. If, um, the

[2:12:16] zoning permit process is fairly

[2:12:18] quick. I mean, we

[2:12:19] re talking 24

[2:12:21] hour turnaround. Building

[2:12:22] permit, again, if they give us

[2:12:24] everything that we need this,

[2:12:26] this can be done within a

[2:12:27] business week, even sooner if

[2:12:28] they give us everything that we

[2:12:30] need. So this would not be a

[2:12:32] long drawn out process. So

[2:12:32] essentially they could probably

[2:12:33] complete each of these steps

[2:12:36] within a week. Yes. Ok. Thank

[2:12:38] you. Councilor Blackburn.

[2:12:42] Couple of questions. So, um,

[2:12:43] The uh suggestion from planning

[2:12:46] and zoning, uh, to abide by the

[2:12:48] flag code at 760 square feet. I

[2:12:54] appreciated. But My

[2:12:55] understanding is that the flag

[2:12:56] was put up and the flag

[2:12:56] s not

[2:12:59] going anywhere. So in some ways,

[2:13:03] Is it, is it fair to say that

[2:13:06] the. Text amendment that we

[2:13:06] re

[2:13:08] presenting and that we are

[2:13:09] considering tonight is done to

[2:13:10] cover a situation that

[2:13:10] s

[2:13:12] already in place. Is that a

[2:13:15] fair statement? This will

[2:13:17] remedy that situation as far as

[2:13:20] getting them. With the

[2:13:23] regulations in place. That they

[2:13:25] could go through the next steps,

[2:13:26] the, the permits I spoke about

[2:13:27] earlier, and I don

[2:13:27] t want to

[2:13:29] put you on the spot and ask you

[2:13:30] something you can

[2:13:31] t answer, but

[2:13:31] let

[2:13:31] s say, let

[2:13:33] s say we approve

[2:13:34] this and they

[2:13:35] ve got more

[2:13:37] additional hoops, additional,

[2:13:38] uh, uh requirements they should

[2:13:39] should do and let

[2:13:40] s say that

[2:13:44] they yet again fill out uh uh

[2:13:46] uh a false building permit

[2:13:47] request and they erect some

[2:13:49] other kind of flag or do some

[2:13:51] other kind of step. Have, have,

[2:13:54] has so far has our staff been

[2:13:55] able to get compliance with any

[2:13:58] city codes. In any city

[2:13:59] ordinances in regarding this

[2:14:05] flag. I, I will speak to the

[2:14:10] last. Step that we have had

[2:14:14] with them in good faith would

[2:14:15] be the citations that they paid

[2:14:18] near the beginning of when they

[2:14:19] were receiving violations, and

[2:14:21] since then staff has not had

[2:14:24] any feedback from Camping World,

[2:14:25] any communication whatsoever.

[2:14:27] And about how much, uh, uh, in

[2:14:28] citations have they accrued

[2:14:30] already? I have a slide for

[2:14:36] that. So as of today, um,

[2:14:36] they

[2:14:39] ve been cited a total of

[2:14:42] uh almost $9000. They paid 650

[2:14:44] which covers the 1st 4

[2:14:44] citations and then since then

[2:14:45] it

[2:14:47] s been quiet. Thank you. And

[2:14:49] then one last question. Um, I

[2:14:50] think when, when we first

[2:14:53] considered doing some, you know,

[2:14:54] requesting to see some kind of

[2:14:57] text amendment. We have the

[2:14:58] understanding that it could be

[2:14:59] limited to a us flag. It looks

[2:14:59] like that

[2:15:00] s not the case with

[2:15:02] this current amendment. It is

[2:15:04] any flag of any nation

[2:15:05] recognized by the United States.

[2:15:07] Is that right? Within the

[2:15:08] definition, yes, ma

[2:15:08] am. So

[2:15:08] that

[2:15:12] s, uh, a 3200 square foot

[2:15:14] flag that can be put up on a

[2:15:15] 5-acre parcel within these 6

[2:15:16] zoning districts could be a

[2:15:21] Russian flag. Canadian flag.

[2:15:25] Flag of the European Union. A

[2:15:27] flag of Colombia. Am I right?

[2:15:28] Any of these flags would be

[2:15:29] permissible. You

[2:15:30] re correct. Ok.

[2:15:34] Thank you. Well they need to

[2:15:37] pay the citations before. Um,

[2:15:38] filling out the new application.

[2:15:40] I don

[2:15:42] t think we can hold them

[2:15:45] to that, um, but we certainly

[2:15:46] would accept their payment. And

[2:15:49] we would accept their permits.

[2:15:51] You know, we would, we would

[2:15:54] need to pursue our normal

[2:15:56] collection procedures. Which

[2:15:57] would include continuing to

[2:15:58] build for the outstanding

[2:16:00] balances. With include

[2:16:03] penalties and interest. Uh, to

[2:16:05] that, and if that does not

[2:16:05] suffice, then we

[2:16:05] d have to take

[2:16:09] additional measures. What I

[2:16:09] m

[2:16:11] sorry, what are the normal

[2:16:15] procedures for a business that

[2:16:19] With, um Have a construction

[2:16:20] project against city ordinances

[2:16:20] that didn

[2:16:21] t have a flag. Let

[2:16:21] s,

[2:16:21] let

[2:16:22] s forget about the flag for

[2:16:26] a second. If this was another

[2:16:28] business that constructed

[2:16:29] 130-foot structure and, and,

[2:16:31] and did nothing. What would the,

[2:16:32] what would our normal procedure

[2:16:40] look like? To just add a little

[2:16:41] sort of divvy between this, um,

[2:16:46] you know, this flagpole and

[2:16:48] this flag arrived overnight,

[2:16:49] typically a construction

[2:16:51] project is built out in phases

[2:16:53] and there are many things that

[2:16:53] happen, you know, you

[2:16:54] re going

[2:16:55] to put things in the ground,

[2:16:55] then you

[2:16:56] re gonna frame it and

[2:16:57] then you

[2:16:59] re gonna do x. And as

[2:17:01] you go through that process and

[2:17:03] we realize something is wrong,

[2:17:05] then we can do or, or Chief

[2:17:06] building inspector can do

[2:17:06] what

[2:17:08] s called a stop work order.

[2:17:11] And essentially stop you, pause

[2:17:12] you from getting yourself any

[2:17:16] deeper. This situation is much

[2:17:19] different because this happened

[2:17:22] in one afternoon, um, but

[2:17:25] typically we do have, um,

[2:17:27] Safeguards so that when

[2:17:28] something does start to go off

[2:17:30] the rails or we find something

[2:17:32] is going off the rails, we can

[2:17:35] pause the construction. Thank

[2:17:39] you. So if I understand, if we

[2:17:41] pass this amendment, this does

[2:17:42] not waive any penalties or fees

[2:17:44] that they have accumulated and

[2:17:47] will continue to accumulate. If

[2:17:49] we approve this and they get a

[2:17:50] building permit approved. It

[2:17:51] was continued to accrue up

[2:17:54] until that point, right? I

[2:17:55] think what would happen is, is

[2:17:56] we would have two different

[2:17:58] strains, and what I mean by

[2:18:01] that is, is if you approve this

[2:18:02] text amendment tonight. The

[2:18:04] issue with the size of the flag

[2:18:06] stops, right? Then they have to

[2:18:10] start the Permit process for

[2:18:12] set flag, and then and so

[2:18:12] that

[2:18:13] s where we kind of hit a

[2:18:16] soft stop. But then they still

[2:18:17] have to pick up the next step,

[2:18:20] which is to apply for the

[2:18:21] permits. The fines for the size

[2:18:25] of the flat would stop. And

[2:18:26] With the new permit that we

[2:18:29] required to submit this passes.

[2:18:30] Then they had to submit an

[2:18:31] engineer

[2:18:32] s report, which puts

[2:18:34] the engineer on the hook

[2:18:36] liability wise if something in

[2:18:37] the flag fails the schematic

[2:18:41] drawing. Yeah Yes, the safety

[2:18:42] issue. That

[2:18:43] s right, and that

[2:18:43] s

[2:18:44] on the building uh code side,

[2:18:45] but yes, you

[2:18:46] re correct,

[2:18:46] they

[2:18:49] ll have to provide, um,

[2:18:49] either an

[2:18:51] built. Right, of

[2:18:52] what they

[2:18:54] ve done. Or Stardier,

[2:18:56] which is probably not the route

[2:18:56] they would. So, you

[2:18:57] re not just

[2:18:58] going have camping involved,

[2:18:58] you

[2:18:59] re going to have some

[2:18:59] engineer who

[2:19:00] s putting his

[2:19:02] signature. Sign and stamped. In

[2:19:03] terms of liabilities, you

[2:19:03] ve

[2:19:05] got more than just one person,

[2:19:09] just, ok, thank you. Having

[2:19:11] said that, um, with it being a

[2:19:14] building permit, uh, we do know

[2:19:16] that, that this particular flag

[2:19:19] has not been inspected. Right.

[2:19:20] Yes, ma

[2:19:21] am. Um, with that being

[2:19:25] said. Uh, the application was

[2:19:33] for. Uh, 70 ft and we do have.

[2:19:34] Um, foundational requirements

[2:19:36] for the what we have in our

[2:19:40] current ordinance. State

[2:19:42] building code has the specs for

[2:19:44] the height of the flagpole and

[2:19:46] then what was required

[2:19:47] underground essentially. Yes,

[2:19:47] ma

[2:19:49] am. Um, it

[2:19:49] s a requirement

[2:19:53] for The foundation, this

[2:19:55] underground for 130 ft flag.

[2:19:58] Ask me a question one more time.

[2:20:00] So is that to, has that been

[2:20:04] adjusted to scale. For 130 ft

[2:20:05] flag that this is what

[2:20:05] s

[2:20:08] required. Definitely it adjusts

[2:20:11] as the height of the flagpole

[2:20:13] increases. Do we have that

[2:20:14] information? No, ma

[2:20:14] am. That

[2:20:17] would be part of the, the new

[2:20:18] building permit that an

[2:20:20] engineer would have to stamp

[2:20:23] saying that it, it meets the,

[2:20:25] the building code. So with that

[2:20:27] being said, How are we to know

[2:20:29] for a flag that has already

[2:20:32] been erected. That what they

[2:20:36] have. Meats what would be then

[2:20:40] required. Um, I, I don

[2:20:41] t want

[2:20:43] to steal his thunder. We have

[2:20:44] the chief building inspector

[2:20:46] who told me this stuff this

[2:20:48] afternoon, and I think he can

[2:20:50] very eloquently explain it

[2:20:52] better than I can on how that

[2:20:54] can be done. Ok. Ground

[2:20:56] penetrating radar, right? I

[2:21:00] just need to know. Hey, how

[2:21:03] often, how often do we get the

[2:21:04] chief building inspector. This

[2:21:06] is, this is your moment to

[2:21:08] shine right here. I gave her

[2:21:09] all the information today, um,

[2:21:10] would you ask that one more

[2:21:12] time? I

[2:21:15] m sorry. So, um, the

[2:21:16] request was made for what we

[2:21:18] have in ordinance right now

[2:21:20] with the foundation that

[2:21:23] supports that, um, we

[2:21:24] ve done

[2:21:26] or presented this text

[2:21:28] amendment to allow what they

[2:21:33] have already erected. And which

[2:21:34] would require a different

[2:21:36] foundation to support that for

[2:21:39] safety purposes, right? So how

[2:21:41] do we know since that has

[2:21:43] already been erected that.

[2:21:44] Basically there

[2:21:44] s a number of

[2:21:47] ways of doing that they could

[2:21:47] use ground penetrating radar

[2:21:51] they could do that. Um, they

[2:21:52] could possibly do they MAY have

[2:21:53] taken pictures when they put

[2:21:54] this flagpole in, we just don

[2:21:54] t

[2:21:57] know about it. They MAY have

[2:21:58] already had that information.

[2:22:00] Um, the building code or state

[2:22:01] code does allow for an engineer

[2:22:03] to sign off on some concrete

[2:22:05] work. That stuff they MAY have

[2:22:07] already had all this done and

[2:22:07] just haven

[2:22:09] t provided with us.

[2:22:11] But we would require engineered

[2:22:13] documents, some type of

[2:22:14] certification that the

[2:22:16] foundation that is in place is

[2:22:19] in fact what would be designed

[2:22:20] for that flagpole for 130 ft

[2:22:22] for our wind zone and the flag

[2:22:25] size that would be on it. So MR.

[2:22:26] Mills, would you also use the

[2:22:29] construction order? That they

[2:22:30] that they submitted to the

[2:22:31] contract. We would use that.

[2:22:32] Yes, that is correct when they,

[2:22:34] when they submit a new set of

[2:22:36] plans to us for the 1:30 that

[2:22:38] will give us the details of

[2:22:39] actually what will be required

[2:22:40] for this flood and it would

[2:22:42] come from, it would already

[2:22:42] come engineered for our wind

[2:22:45] zone, yes. Now I

[2:22:46] m going to

[2:22:48] potentially put you on the spot

[2:22:49] and I apologize if, if, if it

[2:22:49] s

[2:22:52] not something you uh feel

[2:22:53] comfortable answering just no

[2:22:56] problem. Um, but given what

[2:22:57] we

[2:22:59] ve seen so far, the response

[2:23:00] of this company to city

[2:23:04] requests to comply. Do we have

[2:23:05] a reasonable expectation that

[2:23:06] if they don

[2:23:06] t meet our

[2:23:08] requirements for how that pole

[2:23:11] should be engineered. Do we

[2:23:12] have any reasonable expectation

[2:23:13] that they will change it or

[2:23:16] comply or bring it up to to

[2:23:17] this code any more than they.

[2:23:18] Did not bring it up to the

[2:23:21] previous code. I

[2:23:21] m glad you

[2:23:23] allowed me to defer on this

[2:23:23] question because I, I can

[2:23:24] t

[2:23:26] answer that one. Understood.

[2:23:27] Ask a question. If they don

[2:23:28] t

[2:23:29] supply you with what you think

[2:23:31] is a necessary materials, you

[2:23:31] won

[2:23:33] t issue the building permit.

[2:23:35] Absolutely, that is correct. So

[2:23:36] you

[2:23:37] ve got to receive

[2:23:39] information that you feel

[2:23:41] satisfied that this foundation

[2:23:42] satisfies the structural

[2:23:43] engineering. That

[2:23:43] s been given

[2:23:45] to you by the engineer. Prior

[2:23:47] to we would issue a building

[2:23:48] permit we would have that

[2:23:49] information and we would not

[2:23:51] issue a certificate of

[2:23:52] compliance until that data has

[2:23:53] been provided to us

[2:23:54] satisfactorily. So even though

[2:23:57] we MAY we do pass this

[2:24:00] amendment. Uh They will have a

[2:24:01] billing permit unless they do

[2:24:02] that, so that then they would

[2:24:03] be in violation of the current

[2:24:05] or the one we do amend if we do

[2:24:07] amend it, correct? That is

[2:24:08] correct. Thank you very much.

[2:24:10] And if I MAY follow-up question

[2:24:13] on that point of like just

[2:24:14] process to COUNCILMAN

[2:24:14] Robinson

[2:24:17] s question. They, they

[2:24:18] do not comply. They get this,

[2:24:22] you know, failure to comply.

[2:24:23] What happens then? Do we know

[2:24:25] just in, in terms of the, the

[2:24:27] process, what, what would

[2:24:28] happen then if they do not

[2:24:29] either don

[2:24:29] t provide the

[2:24:30] documents or they can

[2:24:30] t

[2:24:31] demonstrate that they comply

[2:24:33] with our ordinance. They, they

[2:24:35] get this failure to, to, to

[2:24:37] comply with our ordinance, then

[2:24:37] are we, what, what happens then?

[2:24:40] There are avenues for that, and

[2:24:41] I would have to refer to our

[2:24:45] legal department for that. And

[2:24:45] in the zoning context, if

[2:24:45] there

[2:24:46] s a failure to comply,

[2:24:48] you issue a notice of violation

[2:24:48] and you see if it

[2:24:49] s the appeal

[2:24:51] to the board of adjustment and

[2:24:52] after that

[2:24:52] s exhausted, they

[2:24:54] could appeal to to this to the

[2:24:55] superior court, but in this

[2:24:56] instance, Captain World hadn

[2:24:56] t

[2:24:58] appealed anything, so. In terms

[2:24:59] of the zoning violation, for

[2:25:01] instance. We

[2:25:01] re in a posture

[2:25:03] where we can proceed

[2:25:03] immediately to with legal

[2:25:05] remedies, um. With the building

[2:25:08] permit, I would. Um Uh,

[2:25:09] deferred to my building

[2:25:10] inspector about the the

[2:25:11] remedies under state law there,

[2:25:12] but there are there are state

[2:25:13] law remedies for building

[2:25:14] permit violations as well. So,

[2:25:17] um. There are, I mean, there

[2:25:19] there are some steps that we

[2:25:19] could take, um, I

[2:25:20] m, I

[2:25:20] m

[2:25:21] speaking very hypothetical and

[2:25:21] I don

[2:25:22] t like to make

[2:25:24] hypothetical statements. Um,

[2:25:25] but, but if you

[2:25:26] re asking me,

[2:25:27] we would, we would go a route

[2:25:30] that would, would lead us down.

[2:25:32] A pathway to possible

[2:25:34] condemnation and that would

[2:25:34] lead to some legal, I would

[2:25:36] need to defer to our legal

[2:25:37] department on on exactly what

[2:25:38] steps we would take on that

[2:25:40] that that that is right. If, if

[2:25:41] they, if they do not comply

[2:25:42] with the building, with a

[2:25:44] building permit. At that point

[2:25:46] in time after the if this

[2:25:46] textin

[2:25:47] s approved, you would go

[2:25:48] down the road of legal action

[2:25:49] through a condemnation. And

[2:25:51] does that go through board of

[2:25:54] adjustment or is that something

[2:25:56] city initiated? Ok. Ok. Thank

[2:25:59] you very much. Have we had

[2:26:01] situations where people have

[2:26:04] filed permits and I guess not

[2:26:05] done what they

[2:26:05] re supposed to

[2:26:07] do based off the permit that

[2:26:10] they file. Yes. Is it pretty

[2:26:14] common for. City staff. To come

[2:26:16] up with a remedy to be able to

[2:26:19] fix. What the issue is with the.

[2:26:22] I guess violation of the permit

[2:26:23] that they pulled. I would say a

[2:26:25] majority of the time with that

[2:26:32] would be yes. Ok. Thank you.

[2:26:34] Any other questions, comments?

[2:26:40] Mercy staff. You wanna do it

[2:26:42] one more time, MISS Scooby? I

[2:26:42] m

[2:26:44] sorry, you want to do it one

[2:26:45] more time? I, I, I

[2:26:46] ve, I

[2:26:46] ve

[2:26:47] said it so much. I feel like

[2:26:47] I

[2:26:51] m just repeating it on uh, on,

[2:26:53] on replay. Thank you. Thank you

[2:26:56] very much. Public hearing, you

[2:26:59] got a question. Ok. One more

[2:27:00] question. Well, and this MAY be

[2:27:03] not, not be from a scooby, but

[2:27:06] so if this does not Pass

[2:27:07] tonight. What are the

[2:27:11] ramifications. Um We as

[2:27:12] planning would continue to

[2:27:14] issue the notice of violations.

[2:27:14] That

[2:27:14] s, that

[2:27:16] s where this sends

[2:27:19] us because we, um, For us in my

[2:27:20] little world, it

[2:27:21] s a zoning

[2:27:23] issue, so we would continue as

[2:27:28] we have. So legally, where

[2:27:29] would we be, I do believe it

[2:27:32] brings up another question. Of

[2:27:34] what type of action uh do we

[2:27:36] pursue if this does not pass.

[2:27:38] And uh, I think we would have

[2:27:41] to seek the the guidance of our

[2:27:43] in-house counsel. From a legal

[2:27:43] perspective of what that would

[2:27:45] look like. If it doesn

[2:27:46] t pass,

[2:27:49] we, we. Council has the right

[2:27:50] to go on to close session of

[2:27:51] attorney-client privilege to

[2:27:54] talk about legal remedies if Or

[2:27:55] violations of zoning violations,

[2:27:57] building code violations, um.

[2:27:57] You

[2:27:58] re gonna impose penalties

[2:27:59] as you know, you could also. A

[2:28:01] lawsuit, but We could have

[2:28:03] those, you, you have the right

[2:28:04] to have those conversations in

[2:28:05] closed session to talk about

[2:28:10] legal remedies. And, and Does

[2:28:11] that include the cost that the

[2:28:14] city Would incur as far as

[2:28:17] court fees, attorney fees, and

[2:28:18] things like that in terms of

[2:28:19] attorney

[2:28:19] s office, most

[2:28:21] litigation. We engage that

[2:28:22] council because there

[2:28:22] s just 3

[2:28:24] of us and, um, so there would

[2:28:28] be some cost. Uh, when we

[2:28:29] pursue litigation, it just

[2:28:32] costs involved typically. Thank

[2:28:35] you. What a winning lawsuit. Uh,

[2:28:37] when those costs back and uh

[2:28:39] Not typically there are no

[2:28:40] statutes. You know, you have to

[2:28:41] have an attorney fee statute to

[2:28:43] get it to recover your fees for

[2:28:45] cities. General Assembly ain

[2:28:45] t

[2:28:49] giving us that much love

[2:28:49] prevail, there

[2:28:50] s no statute

[2:28:51] typically that allows us to

[2:28:54] recover fes. Council if I

[2:28:55] understand my question counsel.

[2:28:58] So if I understand currently.

[2:29:00] County is getting ready to

[2:29:00] undergo the electronic filing

[2:29:02] system. That

[2:29:02] s been put in

[2:29:05] place all over North Carolina.

[2:29:07] Where everything goes to paper.

[2:29:10] My experience has been as a

[2:29:10] litigator in another district

[2:29:15] that that adds. Typically 2 to

[2:29:15] 34 months to the process

[2:29:17] because they go from 20 to 300

[2:29:18] on a docket to 50. We

[2:29:19] re going

[2:29:21] to that system. In APRIL, late

[2:29:24] APRIL, full blow. And I know

[2:29:24] it

[2:29:25] s going to really drag our

[2:29:26] court system down. It

[2:29:27] s not

[2:29:27] anybody

[2:29:27] s fault. It

[2:29:28] s just the

[2:29:32] software that works. So I would

[2:29:33] suggest probably in a case like

[2:29:34] that, if we did seek litigation.

[2:29:35] I

[2:29:37] m going to suggest it

[2:29:37] s

[2:29:38] probably a year and a half or 2

[2:29:40] year process. And I would say

[2:29:42] probably in excess of a quarter

[2:29:44] million dollars, if not more.

[2:29:44] Yeah, that

[2:29:46] s just my opinion.

[2:29:48] But having been in the legal

[2:29:49] system for almost 39 years, I

[2:29:49] m

[2:29:50] gonna tell you I

[2:29:51] m gonna be

[2:29:52] fairly accurate about it, and

[2:29:52] that

[2:29:53] s at least 1.5 to 2 years

[2:29:54] that we have invested in it if

[2:29:56] we had to go that route. And I

[2:29:57] think as counsel, that

[2:29:57] s

[2:29:59] something we should be. Very

[2:30:00] mildful particularly for

[2:30:01] looking at that kind of money.

[2:30:09] That kind of time period. What?

[2:30:11] Any other questions? Before we

[2:30:13] open up the public comment, the

[2:30:17] public hearing, excuse me. All

[2:30:18] right, see none of the public

[2:30:18] hearing is now open. Those who

[2:30:20] speak on behalf of the

[2:30:20] applicant MAY come forward.

[2:30:21] Please state your name for the

[2:30:23] record. The first person has 10

[2:30:25] minutes, all others have 3

[2:30:42] minutes. See none, those in

[2:30:43] opposition to the applicant MAY

[2:30:44] come forward. Please state your

[2:30:45] name for the record. The first

[2:30:47] person has 10 minutes, all

[2:30:50] others have. 3 minutes. Uh,

[2:30:51] good evening. My name is Mark

[2:30:54] Parker. I spoke on this matter

[2:30:54] before and I

[2:30:56] m hearing a lot of

[2:30:57] verbal gymnastics going up here.

[2:30:58] Talking about the cost and

[2:31:01] stuff like this. Making a

[2:31:02] band-aid for what Captain World

[2:31:03] did in the beginning. Let

[2:31:03] s

[2:31:05] talk about the facts like

[2:31:06] Councilor Robinson talked about

[2:31:08] the facts about traffic and all

[2:31:09] this other stuff about, we

[2:31:10] assume people are going to

[2:31:12] follow the rules and follow the

[2:31:15] law. The camping world follow

[2:31:16] the ordinance? No, let

[2:31:16] s start

[2:31:19] with the facts. They willfully

[2:31:20] disobeyed the orders. That

[2:31:21] s

[2:31:24] number one. So I, they

[2:31:25] willfully decided not to have

[2:31:26] the flag or the flagpole

[2:31:31] inspected. Number 3. They

[2:31:32] willfully dis you know,

[2:31:34] basically this side to disobey

[2:31:34] the council

[2:31:36] s, uh, ruling when

[2:31:38] you said no, um, against the

[2:31:39] flag. We

[2:31:40] re not what gets them

[2:31:41] breaking the ordinance. They

[2:31:42] went on media and all this

[2:31:45] stuff to try to basically try

[2:31:46] to hype everybody up and go off

[2:31:49] my 4th, my 4th point. Basically,

[2:31:51] they use patriotism of the

[2:31:53] people of the symbol of the

[2:31:54] flag as a false flag. If

[2:31:54] anybody don

[2:31:55] t know what false

[2:31:57] flag means, that

[2:31:57] s basically

[2:31:58] taking something and using it

[2:32:02] to be deceptive. And using that

[2:32:02] to sway people

[2:32:03] s opinion. And

[2:32:04] I

[2:32:05] m a veteran, like I said, I

[2:32:06] raised my hands twice for this

[2:32:10] country. That flag is not to be

[2:32:11] disrespected, nor used as a

[2:32:13] propaganda of peace. COUNCILMAN

[2:32:14] Robinson, how are you doing? I

[2:32:16] want to like, so I really wanna

[2:32:18] address you about when you were

[2:32:20] talking about the traffic and

[2:32:21] development about saying that

[2:32:22] you assume everyone is going to

[2:32:25] follow the law. We also assume

[2:32:25] that everybody

[2:32:26] s gonna follow

[2:32:27] the ordinance of the city of

[2:32:29] Greenville have put forth.

[2:32:30] Camping world has not done that.

[2:32:31] And now we

[2:32:32] re just gonna give

[2:32:34] them a pass. They

[2:32:34] ve done this

[2:32:37] all over the country. Seville,

[2:32:39] Tennessee is going through the

[2:32:42] same process right now. Their

[2:32:43] public officials have been

[2:32:45] receiving written threats.

[2:32:48] Bunch of your fear received

[2:32:49] negative um comments. I

[2:32:49] ve read

[2:32:51] the negative comments on

[2:32:52] Facebook. And now they just get

[2:32:54] a pass, but what I, as an

[2:32:56] individual in Greenville, get

[2:32:59] the same respect. Or the same

[2:32:59] courtesy that Camperor was

[2:33:02] getting? No. So why are we

[2:33:03] doing this? Now we

[2:33:04] re talking

[2:33:05] about the legal fees, and

[2:33:05] they

[2:33:06] re going to do a victory

[2:33:08] lap if we do this amendment.

[2:33:08] I

[2:33:09] m totally against it. It

[2:33:13] pisses me off. I am, I mean,

[2:33:13] I

[2:33:15] m tired of it. How we

[2:33:15] re at a

[2:33:17] point in our country now that

[2:33:17] we

[2:33:18] re letting corporations do

[2:33:21] whatever they want to do. And

[2:33:25] we, the people, we, the people.

[2:33:25] Are getting treated as we

[2:33:27] should. Yes, it

[2:33:28] s a beautiful

[2:33:31] flag, but Flagpole was too big,

[2:33:33] flag is too big. Now we want to

[2:33:34] basically put a band-aid on and

[2:33:36] say, ok, hey, let

[2:33:36] s let it make

[2:33:38] it come in compliance so we

[2:33:40] could just move along. They

[2:33:41] have all the money. I mean,

[2:33:42] they have billions of dollars,

[2:33:45] but they only pay $650. Come on.

[2:33:48] Why are we making exceptions

[2:33:51] for them. Now, what would, what

[2:33:52] now, what if I built a flagpole.

[2:33:59] And did and used it for other

[2:34:03] reasons, less than 130 ft. Less

[2:34:05] than the 3200 square feet, and

[2:34:08] I used it to I could put

[2:34:10] different, say, hey, you want

[2:34:11] to put your flag up and talk

[2:34:12] about this, talk about that, or

[2:34:12] I

[2:34:14] ll give you another example.

[2:34:15] All right, we all have our

[2:34:16] sacred symbols. Once somebody

[2:34:18] said, well, I can build a cross

[2:34:21] that is so big. Certain amount.

[2:34:24] I put it that that that height,

[2:34:25] making the dimensions that cry

[2:34:27] by the words, but then what if

[2:34:28] I at night decide, you know

[2:34:29] what? I

[2:34:30] m gonna put kerosene on

[2:34:30] that. I

[2:34:33] m gonna put it on fire.

[2:34:33] Don

[2:34:35] t distort the image. Of

[2:34:37] sacred items in our country,

[2:34:38] and that was, that

[2:34:38] s what

[2:34:38] s

[2:34:39] been done with Camping World.

[2:34:41] In the audience here, we have

[2:34:43] some veterans back here. And

[2:34:43] they can tell you the same

[2:34:46] thing. We are patriotic. We put

[2:34:47] our lives on the line for this

[2:34:49] country. All Kemp world this

[2:34:51] dude, they

[2:34:52] re trying to exert

[2:34:54] their dominance. And they don

[2:34:54] t

[2:34:55] care if they disrupt our

[2:34:56] community, they don

[2:34:56] t care.

[2:34:56] They

[2:34:57] re just gonna move and

[2:34:59] build another facility, do the

[2:34:59] same thing like they

[2:35:00] ve been

[2:35:02] doing all over the country. So

[2:35:05] I firmly stand against it.

[2:35:05] That

[2:35:07] s all I got to say and I

[2:35:07] m,

[2:35:07] and I

[2:35:08] m, I

[2:35:09] m actually sad

[2:35:10] to see the shift. You made the

[2:35:12] decision in 1st,, 1st, but then

[2:35:14] GOD at the in the last meeting

[2:35:15] we started seeing people kind

[2:35:17] of say, well, what if we did

[2:35:19] this? If they had did what they

[2:35:21] were supposed to do in the

[2:35:22] beginning, none of this will be

[2:35:23] going on. We wouldn

[2:35:25] t be here

[2:35:27] And just for them, like I said,

[2:35:28] I believe in accountability and

[2:35:30] responsibility. For everyone. I

[2:35:31] don

[2:35:32] t care from the highest to

[2:35:33] the lowest. And that

[2:35:33] s all I

[2:35:35] got to say. Thank you. Thanks,

[2:35:38] MR. Parker. Anyone else who

[2:35:38] d

[2:35:40] like to speak in opposition to

[2:35:41] the applicant MAY come forward.

[2:35:41] Please state your name for the

[2:35:43] record. You have 3 minutes. Uh,

[2:35:45] my name is Pedro. Hello again,

[2:35:46] guys, um. I

[2:35:47] m glad that he

[2:35:49] started me off cause it kinda.

[2:35:51] Clear some stuff up for me.

[2:35:52] This is a clear pattern with

[2:35:55] this company. Um, we have here

[2:35:57] Seville, Tennessee. Same thing,

[2:35:57] they

[2:36:00] re being sued. Uh, court

[2:36:02] date set for 4:15 2025. I

[2:36:03] ll be

[2:36:06] there. Flag not coming down.

[2:36:08] This is from 2020 2017, these

[2:36:10] towns have said no to our

[2:36:12] American flag a camping world.

[2:36:13] Help us change that like you

[2:36:15] did in City of Georgetown. And

[2:36:16] then he lists very, he

[2:36:16] s very

[2:36:18] happy about this, um proud

[2:36:21] about it. Fresno, California,

[2:36:23] Golden, Colorado, Longmont,

[2:36:25] Colorado, Sacramento,

[2:36:26] California, Vacaville,

[2:36:29] California, Woodville, Oregon,

[2:36:30] Bridgeport, New Jersey.

[2:36:32] Kissimmee, Florida. Fountain,

[2:36:34] Colorado, Statesville, North

[2:36:35] Carolina, Olive Branch,

[2:36:36] Mississippi. Hanover County,

[2:36:40] Virginia. This one is actually

[2:36:41] targeted to our council here.

[2:36:43] Dear Greenville, North Carolina,

[2:36:44] Utahed having a city council

[2:36:46] meeting to the public in an

[2:36:47] effort to remove the pressure

[2:36:48] you received. I

[2:36:48] m not gonna

[2:36:50] read the whole thing. This one

[2:36:52] is pretty long. This one is

[2:36:53] Statesville, Hay City of

[2:36:56] Statesville, we have received

[2:36:57] your lawsuit regarding our us

[2:36:59] American flag. It will not come

[2:37:01] down. This one is, again,

[2:37:03] towards you guys, the flag is

[2:37:05] not coming down. And this one,

[2:37:07] this is what I think probably

[2:37:08] is gonna get a lot. Lot of

[2:37:10] people mad. You can find me all

[2:37:12] you want, City of Greenville,

[2:37:14] North Carolina. He will not pay

[2:37:16] these fines, even if we let him

[2:37:17] put his flag up, he

[2:37:18] ll probably

[2:37:18] say that he doesn

[2:37:19] t have to pay

[2:37:20] the fines because you guys

[2:37:22] allowed him to put the flag up.

[2:37:24] This is another one from

[2:37:26] Georgetown, Kentucky. City of

[2:37:27] Georgetown. What

[2:37:28] s up with not

[2:37:30] allowing an American flag a

[2:37:32] camping world. So all that to

[2:37:35] say, this is a pattern with

[2:37:37] Camping World, um, and

[2:37:39] obviously proposing this, um,

[2:37:40] this proposed amendment, it

[2:37:42] would fix the issue with the

[2:37:42] flag, but that

[2:37:43] s not the issue

[2:37:45] really. At the end of the day,

[2:37:47] the issue was not with the flag.

[2:37:47] It

[2:37:49] s a beautiful flag. I am the

[2:37:50] child of immigrants. I love

[2:37:53] that flag. But this flag that

[2:37:53] he

[2:37:55] s put up has brought hate

[2:37:58] online, that is not what the

[2:37:59] American flag stands for,

[2:38:00] because the people that you see

[2:38:01] that say, oh, yes, it

[2:38:02] s good

[2:38:03] that this flag is up. These

[2:38:05] people are not the people that

[2:38:07] actually know what that flag

[2:38:10] means and love that flag. Um,

[2:38:11] the permit that they applied

[2:38:12] for, in my opinion, they should,

[2:38:14] they, it should be condemned

[2:38:16] now. They applied for a permit.

[2:38:17] The permit said that the

[2:38:19] flagpole had to be 70 ft, and

[2:38:21] the, the square footage, 216 ft.

[2:38:24] They knew what they were doing.

[2:38:25] They applied for that, for that

[2:38:27] permit. And they, they

[2:38:28] knowingly said no, we

[2:38:29] re gonna

[2:38:30] do whatever I want because I

[2:38:30] ve

[2:38:31] done it everywhere and nobody

[2:38:32] s

[2:38:33] done anything to me. So I just

[2:38:35] did a little bit of math here.

[2:38:38] The flag that they put up is

[2:38:40] more than 1000 times the size

[2:38:42] that the Greenville City

[2:38:43] Ordinance allows. That

[2:38:45] s time.

[2:38:47] Thank you, thank you for your

[2:38:48] time. Thank you. Anyone else

[2:38:48] you

[2:38:49] d like to speak in

[2:38:50] opposition to the applicant MAY

[2:38:51] come forward. Please state your

[2:38:52] name for the record. You have 3

[2:38:58] minutes. Evening. My name

[2:38:58] s

[2:39:00] Eric Horseman, um. I time this

[2:39:01] out pretty carefully to be 3

[2:39:02] minutes, but I think, uh,

[2:39:02] sounds like you

[2:39:03] re gonna hear

[2:39:04] from a lot of folks who are

[2:39:04] pretty upset about this. I

[2:39:05] m

[2:39:05] just gonna edit out some of

[2:39:07] these things that are repeating

[2:39:07] what they

[2:39:07] re saying, to focus

[2:39:08] on some things I think they

[2:39:09] probably aren

[2:39:10] t gonna tell you,

[2:39:12] uh, so I lived here 15 years,

[2:39:12] um, I

[2:39:13] ve only come to a city

[2:39:13] council meeting a couple of

[2:39:15] times to talk, um, but this

[2:39:16] particular issue has me pretty

[2:39:18] upset. I followed it pretty

[2:39:19] closely, uh, it has been

[2:39:20] frustrated enough to show up

[2:39:21] because I

[2:39:21] m pretty concerned

[2:39:22] that you, the city council, are

[2:39:24] about to approve this text

[2:39:25] amendment solely to make an

[2:39:28] annoyance go away. Uh, and this

[2:39:29] does not serve the citizens of

[2:39:31] Greenville. Uh, I have no

[2:39:33] problem with a big flag, as

[2:39:36] many of us, nobody here does,

[2:39:37] um, my problem is with the

[2:39:39] process, uh, that this has gone

[2:39:39] through, which can

[2:39:40] t bring

[2:39:41] worlds approached this and

[2:39:42] recently how the city council

[2:39:45] has, uh, since JANUARY, uh, has

[2:39:47] responded to that. My concern

[2:39:49] is that this relatively

[2:39:51] unimportant flag issue, uh, is

[2:39:53] the response to it gonna set a

[2:39:55] really unpleasant example. Uh,

[2:39:55] particularly if this is

[2:39:57] approved, I think our local

[2:39:58] government simply rolling over,

[2:39:59] giving up in the face of

[2:40:00] resistance from a little bit of

[2:40:02] resistance from not a state

[2:40:04] corporation. Um, it makes me

[2:40:06] concerned that how can we trust

[2:40:08] the decisions made, uh, by you

[2:40:09] all are benefiting local

[2:40:10] residents rather than these

[2:40:11] corporate interests when the

[2:40:12] two conflict. Here

[2:40:12] s something

[2:40:15] important. Uh, I read the

[2:40:16] proposed text amendment very

[2:40:18] carefully. Uh, I don

[2:40:19] t think

[2:40:19] anyone else has actually

[2:40:21] checked the math in there. One

[2:40:23] thing that the city planner

[2:40:23] didn

[2:40:24] t tell you is that as

[2:40:26] written, uh, the current text

[2:40:27] of the proposed amendment

[2:40:29] includes this text. The hoist

[2:40:31] side of the flag shall not

[2:40:32] exceed 30% of the height of the

[2:40:35] pole, unquote. That 30% is a

[2:40:35] proposed change. I

[2:40:36] m pretty

[2:40:37] sure it came from that original

[2:40:39] camping world, uh, proposal

[2:40:40] that you all got and was maybe

[2:40:42] just copied and pasted into the

[2:40:42] city

[2:40:44] s version, uh, get your

[2:40:45] calculator, check that. You

[2:40:45] ll

[2:40:48] see that 30% of 130 ft is 39 ft.

[2:40:52] Not 40 ft. The 40 ft tall flag

[2:40:52] that

[2:40:54] s currently there. Uh,

[2:40:55] would exceed their post

[2:40:56] allowable flag height, it will

[2:40:58] still be out of compliance if

[2:40:58] you propose what

[2:40:59] s in front of

[2:41:01] you right now. The current back

[2:41:02] is a bit, it

[2:41:04] s a big flag, uh,

[2:41:04] so big, in fact, it

[2:41:04] s

[2:41:06] disrespectful. Uh, it can

[2:41:06] t be

[2:41:08] flown at half-staff. The photo

[2:41:10] that uh, that the city planner

[2:41:12] showed you was during Jimmy

[2:41:12] Carter

[2:41:13] s, uh, period of

[2:41:15] memorial, right? That was

[2:41:16] flying at half staff, lowered

[2:41:17] about 10 ft. That

[2:41:19] s all they

[2:41:20] can do. If Camping Worlds want

[2:41:22] to fly a big flag, that

[2:41:22] s great.

[2:41:23] Let

[2:41:25] s have a respectful,

[2:41:27] reasonable size. Um, the, uh,

[2:41:28] planning and zoning commission

[2:41:29] gave you a reasonable size. You

[2:41:30] can actually go a little bit

[2:41:31] bigger than that according to

[2:41:34] the, uh, the, uh, flag code

[2:41:35] could be as big as 22 ft in

[2:41:37] about le ng th of 43 ft, the

[2:41:38] height of 22 ft, and the height

[2:41:39] of a length of 43 ft. That

[2:41:40] s an

[2:41:41] area of 946 square feet. That

[2:41:41] s

[2:41:44] a pretty big flag. Uh, for the,

[2:41:45] uh, for that size, that size

[2:41:48] pole. Um, and I think I

[2:41:48] ll

[2:41:49] finally conclude by saying that

[2:41:50] um I agree with uh planning and

[2:41:52] zoning commissioner member Alan

[2:41:53] Thomas, who in the FEBRUARY

[2:41:54] discussion talked about having

[2:41:55] a lot more respect for someone

[2:41:57] who wears a tiny flag on their

[2:41:58] uniform and every day, every

[2:41:59] day that somebody like camping

[2:42:01] world, uh, ceo Mark Lamonis.

[2:42:01] I

[2:42:03] ll stop now, uh, but I want

[2:42:04] to say that, um, this has me

[2:42:05] pretty upset, as you can

[2:42:06] probably see, um, and, uh, I

[2:42:08] think you should vote this down

[2:42:10] or adjust this to a reasonable

[2:42:12] size. Thank you. Thank you.

[2:42:12] Anyone else that

[2:42:12] d like to

[2:42:13] speak in opposition to the

[2:42:14] applicant MAY come forward,

[2:42:15] please state your name for the

[2:42:23] record. You have 3 minutes.

[2:42:27] Maxwell and uh This, uh, like,

[2:42:28] uh, Eric just said this issues

[2:42:29] had me pretty upset for a long

[2:42:31] time. Uh, I

[2:42:32] m upset with the

[2:42:33] controversy it

[2:42:33] s brought. I

[2:42:33] m

[2:42:34] upset with how It

[2:42:35] s caused

[2:42:36] people on the council to be

[2:42:37] attacked by citizens of

[2:42:38] Greenville. I

[2:42:39] m really upset

[2:42:41] with the tactics that uh

[2:42:41] Camping World uses, they

[2:42:42] ve

[2:42:45] done it all across the country.

[2:42:45] They

[2:42:46] re paying multi-million

[2:42:49] dollar fines in one state for

[2:42:50] Uh, basically ripping their

[2:42:51] customers off, selling them,

[2:42:51] telling them they

[2:42:52] re selling

[2:42:52] one thing and sell them

[2:42:54] something else. I just saw

[2:42:56] another article in uh

[2:42:57] Charleston, South Carolina.

[2:42:57] They

[2:43:00] ve had complaints

[2:43:02] Constantly since 2009 for um

[2:43:02] misrepresenting what they

[2:43:03] re

[2:43:04] selling to people. Uh, they

[2:43:05] re

[2:43:07] using the flag as advertisement,

[2:43:09] which is against the anything

[2:43:09] that this country should stand

[2:43:13] for. Um The, the way they

[2:43:16] filled out the Uh, permit, um.

[2:43:18] Knowing exactly what they were

[2:43:19] planning on doing. Matter of

[2:43:21] fact, at the earlier meeting,

[2:43:22] the fellow who came

[2:43:23] representing Captain World. Was

[2:43:25] asked specifically, did they

[2:43:26] ever order a flag or pole that

[2:43:28] size? No, we, we never really

[2:43:29] did that. They never were gonna

[2:43:32] do that. Uh, as this guy, uh,

[2:43:34] he, he just read. Uh, where the

[2:43:36] owner of the company, he

[2:43:37] basically is thumbing his nose

[2:43:38] at everybody saying, you know,

[2:43:38] I

[2:43:39] m gonna do what I want to do,

[2:43:40] heck with y

[2:43:43] all. Um, if, if you

[2:43:44] guys approved this, this is

[2:43:46] basically cave and to somebody

[2:43:46] who

[2:43:47] s a bully, and it just

[2:43:49] ticks me off to no end to see

[2:43:51] anybody, uh, come into our

[2:43:51] community. As far as I

[2:43:52] m

[2:43:53] concerned, I wish this company

[2:43:55] never come here. And uh, you

[2:43:55] know, I don

[2:43:56] t know what we can

[2:43:57] do about it, but At least we

[2:43:59] could have a flag that makes

[2:44:00] some sense. This is ridiculous.

[2:44:02] Thank you. Thank you, MR.

[2:44:07] Maxwell. Anyone else would like

[2:44:08] to speak in opposition to the

[2:44:09] applicant MAY come forward.

[2:44:10] Please state your name for the

[2:44:15] record. You have 3 minutes.

[2:44:17] Hello Rebecca Powers. You

[2:44:18] ve

[2:44:20] heard some Very eloquent and

[2:44:23] thorough. Comments about this.

[2:44:26] Um I

[2:44:28] d like to add Something

[2:44:31] new. Um It

[2:44:33] s kind of the two

[2:44:33] issues, the process, but it

[2:44:34] s

[2:44:35] also the flag. And so I

[2:44:35] d like

[2:44:39] to Speak again about the

[2:44:43] symbolism of the flag. And that

[2:44:45] When you see it as it is now,

[2:44:45] it

[2:44:46] s like a mockery. Of our

[2:44:48] flag And it

[2:44:49] s just heart

[2:44:52] wrenching. Because it

[2:44:52] s so

[2:44:55] humongous and wrong. You

[2:44:56] re

[2:44:58] going to have an ordinance. We

[2:45:00] expect people to follow it and

[2:45:04] reinforce the ordinance. This

[2:45:06] flag is a respected symbol of

[2:45:11] our country. And it seems Not

[2:45:14] to be that in this form. And

[2:45:14] it

[2:45:15] s set in a terrible

[2:45:16] precedence. Now we

[2:45:16] re gonna say

[2:45:18] one other thing that came up

[2:45:19] tonight that just um hadn

[2:45:19] t

[2:45:21] occurred to me when you asked

[2:45:23] the building inspector about

[2:45:25] our ordinances changed. And he

[2:45:27] said, if I remember right, he

[2:45:29] said a lot of the time and

[2:45:31] there was a gasp in the room

[2:45:31] because we didn

[2:45:32] t know that,

[2:45:35] but I would like to suggest

[2:45:35] that there

[2:45:37] s never been an

[2:45:39] ordinance changed about the

[2:45:39] American flag flying in

[2:45:42] Greenville. If the building

[2:45:42] s

[2:45:43] inspector had to change

[2:45:44] something, it probably had to

[2:45:46] do we moved the sidewalk a

[2:45:47] little to the right, moved the

[2:45:50] sidewalk a little to the left.

[2:45:50] It

[2:45:51] s not about flying that flag.

[2:45:54] i ask you, please vote no to

[2:45:56] the amendment, put an end to

[2:45:59] this issue. For us, we put it

[2:46:02] on you, it goes legally, but we

[2:46:05] got to do it. Vote no. Thank

[2:46:07] you. Thanks for clarification,

[2:46:08] I didn

[2:46:09] t say the ordinance

[2:46:11] changed. I said, is somebody

[2:46:12] not in compliance with a permit?

[2:46:14] Do they make the correction?

[2:46:15] And then he responded back and

[2:46:17] said. Most of the time, I

[2:46:19] believe. Oh, do they make the,

[2:46:21] oh, I totally misinterpreted

[2:46:22] that. I thought you were asking

[2:46:23] I didn

[2:46:24] t say the ordinance that

[2:46:25] would have to come through the

[2:46:27] city council for approval. Oh,

[2:46:28] I did misunderstand. I thought

[2:46:29] you meant that we just change

[2:46:30] it for them so they

[2:46:31] re, they

[2:46:32] re

[2:46:34] in compliance. No, we ask them

[2:46:37] to be in well, that sounds fair.

[2:46:37] That

[2:46:37] s what we

[2:46:38] re supposed to

[2:46:40] do. Correct. Be in compliance.

[2:46:45] Correct. Thank you. All right.

[2:46:46] Anyone else who

[2:46:46] d like to speak

[2:46:48] in opposition to the app MAY

[2:46:49] come forward. Please state your

[2:46:49] name for the record. You have 3

[2:46:59] minutes. Times one night.

[2:46:59] That

[2:47:03] s a record for me. Uh So I

[2:47:05] said earlier this was one of 2

[2:47:06] votes in which it

[2:47:06] s imperative

[2:47:09] that you vote no. The first

[2:47:10] time you chose otherwise, but

[2:47:10] we

[2:47:12] ll see how that turns out. I

[2:47:14] want to echo something you said

[2:47:15] earlier, council member

[2:47:19] Robinson. Pertaining to Our

[2:47:21] traffic issue on 10th Street,

[2:47:22] we need our traffic department

[2:47:24] to be issuing tickets and

[2:47:25] enforce those tickets. When

[2:47:26] people break the law, you

[2:47:28] enforce the law. You didn

[2:47:28] t say.

[2:47:33] We changed the law for them. We

[2:47:34] just increased the speed limit

[2:47:35] so they

[2:47:35] ll they

[2:47:37] ll be fine now.

[2:47:39] And they would have been fined

[2:47:41] because they were speeding. But

[2:47:41] we

[2:47:42] re just gonna kind of ignore

[2:47:47] that too. Right Am I right? I

[2:47:48] m

[2:47:51] just listening to your comment,

[2:47:52] I did break the law, you

[2:47:57] enforce the law, yes. And you

[2:47:58] are an attorney you are an

[2:48:01] attorney and so, yes. So they

[2:48:02] broke the ordinance. I

[2:48:05] m It

[2:48:06] seems obvious to me that we

[2:48:08] enforce the ordinance. It

[2:48:08] s

[2:48:09] really disturbing that that

[2:48:11] could cost us an estimated 25%

[2:48:13] of a million dollars. I, I

[2:48:13] would say let

[2:48:14] s, you know,

[2:48:14] let

[2:48:15] s, let

[2:48:16] s try and verify

[2:48:17] that number, but I don

[2:48:18] t think

[2:48:18] it

[2:48:20] s right. That someone

[2:48:23] behaves in this way. And you

[2:48:25] just change the ordinance to

[2:48:27] accommodate that behavior.

[2:48:27] We

[2:48:28] re stuck. This person is

[2:48:31] belligerent. But I think we do

[2:48:33] need to hold the line and say

[2:48:33] we

[2:48:35] re not going to change the

[2:48:35] ordinance just to try to

[2:48:40] appease you. So again, this is

[2:48:41] an imperative, no vote. Thank

[2:48:43] you. Thank you Doctor Newman,

[2:48:44] thank you. Anyone else who

[2:48:44] d

[2:48:46] like to speak in opposition to

[2:48:46] the applicant MAY come forward.

[2:48:47] Please state your name for the

[2:49:00] record. You have 3 minutes. Is

[2:49:02] it true that if they lost the

[2:49:04] case, that could be forced to

[2:49:08] pay the fines. Yeah, absolutely.

[2:49:12] Um, we have the right to

[2:49:13] enforce fines and and require

[2:49:15] them to pay. And if they lost

[2:49:16] the case, yes, if we got an

[2:49:16] order, if we got a judgment

[2:49:17] from the court, they would have

[2:49:20] to pay the fines, they didn

[2:49:20] t

[2:49:22] voluntarily pay the fine upon

[2:49:23] demand, and we filed a lawsuit

[2:49:24] and we prevailed, they would

[2:49:25] have, they would have had to

[2:49:26] pay the fines or we could

[2:49:27] reduce it to judgment and place

[2:49:29] a lien on the property. So it

[2:49:29] wouldn

[2:49:32] t cost the city. Because

[2:49:34] if they do the wrong, if, if,

[2:49:34] and I don

[2:49:36] t think that any

[2:49:39] court would ever. Think that

[2:49:41] they are right. Yeah, we have,

[2:49:42] well, you know, we do have

[2:49:44] legal fees to Bring litigation.

[2:49:45] That

[2:49:46] s what we were talking

[2:49:48] about earlier in the if, if

[2:49:50] they lose the case, could you

[2:49:53] not get those litigation fees

[2:49:54] back of a statute in order for

[2:49:55] a party to recover attorney

[2:49:57] fees, there has to be a statute

[2:49:57] that allows it. I

[2:49:57] m not aware

[2:50:00] of a statute that says just

[2:50:01] because the city prevails, the,

[2:50:02] the losing party has to pay the

[2:50:03] city the cost. I

[2:50:04] m not aware of

[2:50:04] that statute. I think the

[2:50:08] answer is no. Mhm ok, I was

[2:50:09] told that you could, but I

[2:50:09] m

[2:50:11] not a lawyer, so I won

[2:50:11] t fight

[2:50:13] about that, but I think it

[2:50:15] would be embarrassing to

[2:50:16] Greenville if we don

[2:50:17] t take

[2:50:19] this to court because we would

[2:50:24] be seen as Kowtowing to a

[2:50:26] business that has come in and

[2:50:28] really caused problems in our

[2:50:29] community, and I

[2:50:31] ve spent time

[2:50:33] looking up what has happened

[2:50:36] with them and other cities and

[2:50:37] as council informant said

[2:50:38] earlier, we need to look at who

[2:50:41] we bring in our city. And

[2:50:44] camping world is not a good

[2:50:47] business because, um, as hat

[2:50:49] wrappers, I was, we were just

[2:50:51] looking at how many lawsuits

[2:50:54] have been brought against them

[2:50:57] from people who have had really

[2:50:59] bad transactions. They

[2:50:59] ve been

[2:51:01] lied to, and I think if you

[2:51:04] start out lying on your form,

[2:51:07] then you continue that. And,

[2:51:09] and I grew growing up, it was

[2:51:11] always a big deal at school,

[2:51:13] whoever was the one who took

[2:51:16] care of the flag, you respected

[2:51:18] that person and you respected

[2:51:21] the flag, and this ordinance

[2:51:21] that

[2:51:23] s being proposed tonight

[2:51:26] really does not meet flag code

[2:51:27] because you

[2:51:28] re supposed to have

[2:51:34] a pole. That is 1/3 or 1/4. The

[2:51:40] length Of I mean, the width of.

[2:51:43] The flag, you must, it must be

[2:51:45] only 1/3 or 1/4 the length of

[2:51:51] the pole. We would need a 240

[2:51:53] ft pole to properly accommodate

[2:51:56] this flag and fly it accurately

[2:51:58] when you have to have it half

[2:51:59] staff. And that

[2:52:02] s time? Ok.

[2:52:03] Thank you. Thank you. All right.

[2:52:04] Anyone else you

[2:52:04] d like to speak

[2:52:05] in opposition to the African

[2:52:06] MAY come forward. Please state

[2:52:07] your name for the record. You

[2:52:29] have 3 minutes. See none public

[2:52:31] hearing is now closed, open for

[2:52:32] board discussion or a motion.

[2:52:37] Scully. Thank you, Mayor. Um.

[2:52:38] This debate is not about the

[2:52:39] American flag. It

[2:52:40] s about the

[2:52:41] illegal actions of camping

[2:52:43] world. This is an impossible

[2:52:45] decision. If we pass the

[2:52:46] amendment, and some people will

[2:52:46] be happy, but we

[2:52:47] re essentially

[2:52:49] saying that if you have enough

[2:52:49] money and influence, you don

[2:52:50] t

[2:52:52] have to follow the law. If we

[2:52:53] deny it, some people will be

[2:52:54] happy, but our staff will

[2:52:55] probably have to sue Camping

[2:52:57] World, taking time and money

[2:52:58] away from more important work

[2:53:00] like public safety and

[2:53:00] affordable housing and other

[2:53:02] things. Staff will also have to

[2:53:04] deal with the hateful emails

[2:53:06] and phone calls from across the

[2:53:07] country because of the

[2:53:08] nationwide media presence of

[2:53:09] Camping World and its owner

[2:53:13] have. So what do we do? After

[2:53:14] much thought, prayer, research,

[2:53:15] and listening to my fellow

[2:53:17] citizens, I believe we need to

[2:53:18] do what is right. We need to

[2:53:20] uphold our laws and demand that

[2:53:21] every citizen and business

[2:53:23] follow the law. And when laws

[2:53:25] need to be changed, we have a

[2:53:26] democratic process that allows

[2:53:27] for that change. Camping World

[2:53:29] broke the law. They provided

[2:53:30] false information on the

[2:53:31] original building permit,

[2:53:32] applying for a pole and flag

[2:53:34] within the current size limits

[2:53:35] knowing they would build a pole

[2:53:37] twice as large as is allowed,

[2:53:39] and then they sent us a text

[2:53:40] amendment asking for 30 30 ft

[2:53:43] poles of the 3,2003 33,200

[2:53:44] square foot flagpoles. They

[2:53:46] knew we could not pass it, and

[2:53:47] that, and that, that would

[2:53:49] allow them to smear a good name

[2:53:50] all across social media and the

[2:53:52] national news. It was a setup

[2:53:53] and tended to create a

[2:53:56] controversy that would get them

[2:53:57] free national exposure, not

[2:53:58] only for camping world but also

[2:53:58] for the owner

[2:53:59] s new show

[2:54:00] getting ready to debut on Fox

[2:54:02] News. It

[2:54:03] s not about patriotism.

[2:54:04] It

[2:54:06] s about using our sacred

[2:54:07] flag to create controversy and

[2:54:09] division to gain more exposure

[2:54:10] and ultimately to make more

[2:54:12] money. I believe this is true

[2:54:12] because they

[2:54:13] ve done this all

[2:54:15] over the country. If they had

[2:54:16] followed the law and applied

[2:54:18] for appropriate text amendment

[2:54:19] before construction, we

[2:54:21] probably would have passed it.

[2:54:23] A good example is next door at

[2:54:24] the Hilton Garden Inn. The

[2:54:25] Hilton wanted a sign on the

[2:54:26] hotel that was louder, larger

[2:54:28] than the code allowed. They

[2:54:29] applied for amendment allowing

[2:54:31] for larger signs downtown and

[2:54:32] we passed it unanimously. It

[2:54:33] s

[2:54:34] a great example of a business

[2:54:35] respecting the laws of a

[2:54:36] community that it

[2:54:37] s joining.

[2:54:39] Camping World has done nothing.

[2:54:40] To work with us through this

[2:54:43] process. If we pass this

[2:54:44] amendment, they will still have

[2:54:45] to pay the fines, apply for a

[2:54:46] new permit, provide building

[2:54:49] plans, and have it inspected by

[2:54:50] city engineers. We have no

[2:54:51] reason to believe that they

[2:54:53] will do any of that and we

[2:54:53] ll

[2:54:55] more likely have to sue them to

[2:54:56] pay the fines and to get access

[2:54:59] to the site. My hope is that

[2:55:00] our patriotism will not be

[2:55:04] questioned. I sit here as a

[2:55:05] servant of this community. As

[2:55:08] do my colleagues. That

[2:55:09] servanthood starts protecting

[2:55:09] the citizens and following the

[2:55:13] law. I am a patriot. I remember

[2:55:14] the honor of hoisting the flag

[2:55:15] when I was in middle school,

[2:55:17] learning how to fold it

[2:55:18] properly, how to raise it

[2:55:20] quickly and proudly and how to

[2:55:22] lower it in reverence. I

[2:55:22] remember being taught how to

[2:55:24] raise it all the way up before

[2:55:25] lowering it back down to half

[2:55:26] staff when our nation was in

[2:55:28] mourning. I also remember the

[2:55:31] honor of my family being given

[2:55:32] a folded flag at the funerals

[2:55:33] of both my grandfathers who

[2:55:36] served in the military. I

[2:55:37] m a

[2:55:39] proud patriotic American and I

[2:55:41] honor our great American flag

[2:55:42] by upholding the laws and

[2:55:43] democratic processes of our

[2:55:45] community. I

[2:55:46] d like to share a

[2:55:47] few quotes from some of the

[2:55:50] citizen emails I received.

[2:55:50] We

[2:55:51] re strongly opposed to a tax

[2:55:53] amendment that would legalize

[2:55:54] oversized American flag camping

[2:55:55] world who knowingly and

[2:55:57] flagrantly has not complied

[2:55:58] with city laws on flag displays.

[2:55:59] It

[2:56:00] s a horrible precedent for

[2:56:03] the city to then change

[2:56:03] regulation and accommodate

[2:56:06] businesses in violation.

[2:56:07] Another one says the flag,

[2:56:08] which is larger than the one

[2:56:11] flown over the us Capitol is a

[2:56:12] distraction to motorists. It

[2:56:13] could not be lowered to half

[2:56:15] staff in honor of important

[2:56:17] Americans who have died. The

[2:56:18] owner of Camping World

[2:56:19] flagrantly violated the

[2:56:20] existing ordinance and has

[2:56:21] refused to pay the fines

[2:56:22] imposed as a result of the

[2:56:24] violation. This kind of

[2:56:25] arrogance should not be

[2:56:27] tolerated, let alone encouraged.

[2:56:29] I know the city of Grimble have

[2:56:30] more important issues to

[2:56:31] address, but when we allow

[2:56:33] people to violate ordinances

[2:56:34] with impunity, we opened the

[2:56:37] door for citizens to disregard

[2:56:37] other regulations which would

[2:56:40] lead to chaos. Another says

[2:56:41] there are plenty of businesses

[2:56:42] who are finding the American

[2:56:43] flag across Greenville city

[2:56:45] limits that are biding by the

[2:56:47] rules set in place in camping

[2:56:49] world should follow suit.

[2:56:50] Another said the camping world

[2:56:51] is not able to follow the

[2:56:53] United States flag code. The

[2:56:54] flag of the United States is

[2:56:56] sacred and should be treated

[2:56:57] with respect. In the us flag

[2:56:59] code, it goes on to detail

[2:57:00] about half staff status. The

[2:57:02] Times when, when it should be

[2:57:04] lowered to half staff. However,

[2:57:05] Camping World was unable to

[2:57:06] follow this because their flag

[2:57:07] would be touching the ground,

[2:57:09] which goes against Section 8.

[2:57:10] Respect for the flag, which

[2:57:11] states the flag should never

[2:57:12] touch anything beneath it, such

[2:57:13] as the ground, the floor, water,

[2:57:16] and merchandise. On a side note,

[2:57:17] respect the flag also states

[2:57:19] that the us flag should not be

[2:57:22] used for advertising. Another

[2:57:23] says there was a period of time

[2:57:25] when our business had to

[2:57:26] relocate to another building in

[2:57:27] Greenville and we had set up

[2:57:28] flag banners to inform everyone

[2:57:29] that we were open after just

[2:57:32] moving. We were informed that

[2:57:33] they could not, we could not

[2:57:34] display those flags because

[2:57:35] they were a distraction to

[2:57:37] drivers on the road. Although

[2:57:38] we disagreed with this, we

[2:57:40] removed the flags. Being a part

[2:57:42] of the community is respecting

[2:57:43] the rules set in place by that

[2:57:47] community. Another says

[2:57:48] Patriotic behavior is

[2:57:50] consistent with being a

[2:57:51] law-abiding citizen and with

[2:57:52] respect to established flag

[2:57:54] etiquette, neither of which is

[2:57:55] demonstrated by camping world

[2:57:55] s

[2:57:57] flag. Please do not disregard

[2:57:59] any aspects of the existing

[2:58:01] flag etiquette for the us flag

[2:58:03] code to appease one business

[2:58:04] and loud screams of a subset of

[2:58:08] our residents. Another says,

[2:58:08] I

[2:58:09] m a law-abiding taxpaying

[2:58:11] citizen of Greenville living

[2:58:12] here for 50+ years, the

[2:58:13] American flag is something I

[2:58:16] hold in reverence. However, I

[2:58:17] live in Lakewood Pines directly

[2:58:19] across Evans Street from

[2:58:20] Camping World, and the giant

[2:58:22] illegal flag display. Since it

[2:58:23] is brightly illuminated at

[2:58:25] night, it looms over our

[2:58:26] tallest trees, and when the

[2:58:27] wind is blowing, I can hear the

[2:58:28] very loud flapping of the

[2:58:30] material, even from inside my

[2:58:31] house with the windows closed.

[2:58:33] I was offended when it was not

[2:58:34] lowered to half-staff to show

[2:58:35] respect for the passing of

[2:58:38] PRESIDENT Carter. That flag is

[2:58:39] not about patriotism, is it, it

[2:58:43] is a marketing ploy. And

[2:58:45] another one says, my father, a

[2:58:46] native Dane, came to this

[2:58:48] country and became a us citizen

[2:58:49] after defeating the Nazis in

[2:58:51] World War ii. His love for this

[2:58:52] country and for the American

[2:58:54] flag was palpable. He taught

[2:58:55] his children to respect the

[2:58:56] flag by folding it, by flying

[2:58:58] it proudly every day, and

[2:58:58] unless it was illuminated, it

[2:59:01] was to be taken down at dusk.

[2:59:02] Half-mast meant raising it

[2:59:03] fully and then bringing it back

[2:59:06] down to 5. Size also mattered

[2:59:08] to display an incorrect size is

[2:59:10] simply wrong. It is

[2:59:11] disrespectful to flaunt the

[2:59:12] stars and stripes in a boastful

[2:59:13] manner. It

[2:59:15] s vulgar at best. We

[2:59:17] are not a boastful community

[2:59:17] that encourages bypassing laws

[2:59:19] that are put into place for a

[2:59:23] reason. The only email I

[2:59:26] received in support. Of The

[2:59:29] ordinance, uh, amendment, the,

[2:59:31] the text amendment, um,

[2:59:33] included some really great

[2:59:33] information about having

[2:59:37] respect for the flag. Uh, and

[2:59:38] one section said a symbol

[2:59:40] deeply embedded with the values

[2:59:42] of, of freedom and democracy.

[2:59:44] Principles upon which the

[2:59:46] United States was founded. It

[2:59:46] signals the country

[2:59:47] s

[2:59:48] commitment to these ideals,

[2:59:49] reminding citizens in the world

[2:59:50] of America

[2:59:51] s dedication to

[2:59:52] upholding freedom and justice

[2:59:54] for all. Whether displayed in a

[2:59:55] school, a government building,

[2:59:56] or a family home, the flag

[2:59:58] continuously serves as a prompt

[2:59:59] for reflection on these core

[3:00:00] values and a call to uphold

[3:00:04] them daily. And my comment on

[3:00:06] that is freedom and democracy.

[3:00:08] Are principles that must be

[3:00:10] held simultaneously. We do not

[3:00:11] have the freedom to do whatever

[3:00:14] we want. We live in a democracy

[3:00:16] of a nation of laws. We elect

[3:00:18] officials to govern and to make

[3:00:19] amendments to the laws when

[3:00:19] necessary, but we don

[3:00:20] t get to

[3:00:20] pick and choose which laws we

[3:00:23] follow. We think law is unjust

[3:00:24] and we follow the democratic

[3:00:25] process and get the law changed.

[3:00:28] Camping World believes it is

[3:00:34] above the law. And in closing,

[3:00:36] George Washington wrote, if to

[3:00:38] please the people, we offer

[3:00:40] what we ourselves disapprove.

[3:00:42] How can we afterward defend our

[3:00:45] work. Let us raise a standard

[3:00:47] to which the wise and the

[3:00:49] honest can repair. The event is

[3:00:52] in the hand of GOD. That

[3:00:53] s to

[3:00:54] say that if I prove something

[3:00:57] tonight that I know is wrong.

[3:00:58] Even to get this mess out of

[3:00:59] the way, to move on to save

[3:01:02] face, to save money. I, I, I

[3:01:02] can

[3:01:04] t defend that going forward.

[3:01:04] I can

[3:01:06] t look my fellow citizens

[3:01:07] in the eye that I love and

[3:01:08] respect and I

[3:01:09] ve shared these,

[3:01:11] you know, very impassioned

[3:01:11] testimonies to me. I can

[3:01:12] t look

[3:01:15] at them. Anymore and and with

[3:01:16] respect, I wouldn

[3:01:17] t expect them

[3:01:18] to respect me cause I

[3:01:18] m, I

[3:01:18] m

[3:01:20] caving. And I just can

[3:01:20] t handle

[3:01:23] that. So I really appreciate

[3:01:24] those words from George

[3:01:26] Washington. Providing me with

[3:01:29] the What I need to move on in

[3:01:32] this moment. Um If to please

[3:01:34] the people we offer what we

[3:01:36] ourselves disapprove. How can

[3:01:37] we afterward defend our work.

[3:01:40] We cannot. I know that Camping

[3:01:41] World has what Camping World

[3:01:44] has done is wrong. They have

[3:01:45] disrespected our community, and

[3:01:46] they have disrespected the

[3:01:48] American flag. And I cannot

[3:01:49] have a vote to approve this

[3:01:52] amendment. Councilmember

[3:01:58] Blackburn. I, I call on you. Ok,

[3:02:02] all right, ok. All right. Be

[3:02:04] kind, um, I can hardly improve

[3:02:07] on, uh, what council member

[3:02:09] Scully has just, uh, shared

[3:02:11] with us. Um, I do think though

[3:02:12] that for the, for the record,

[3:02:14] it is important to speak on

[3:02:17] this because it is an extremely

[3:02:18] important conversation and

[3:02:18] we

[3:02:20] ve faced an enormous amount

[3:02:22] of pressure and, um, And

[3:02:24] frankly, a lot of anger as well

[3:02:28] as a lot of very good support.

[3:02:29] So when I

[3:02:30] ve looked at this, I,

[3:02:31] I, I have to start with the

[3:02:33] question. When someone breaks

[3:02:36] the law. We throw our hands up

[3:02:37] and say, oh well, I guess we

[3:02:38] have to change the law for them.

[3:02:41] If they wrap themselves up in a

[3:02:42] flag when they break the law,

[3:02:45] does that make it ok? If a

[3:02:47] business comes to Greenville

[3:02:49] and asks taxpayers to fund its

[3:02:50] advertising campaign? Do we

[3:02:53] pass the hat for them? And if

[3:02:54] they lie on an official

[3:02:55] government form, does that make

[3:02:58] them patriotic? The issue

[3:03:00] before us tonight is not about

[3:03:00] our country

[3:03:02] s flag. It concerns

[3:03:04] respect for community

[3:03:04] s laws.

[3:03:06] Indeed, we must ask ourselves

[3:03:09] what is patriotic? Is it

[3:03:10] patriotic to lie on an official

[3:03:13] government forum? To deceive a

[3:03:14] community about your true

[3:03:17] intentions. Is it patriotic to

[3:03:19] bully, a modest local

[3:03:21] government, us, whose goals are

[3:03:22] simply to support a good

[3:03:23] quality of life for our

[3:03:26] citizens. Is it patriotic to

[3:03:28] bitterly divide a community? Is

[3:03:30] it patriotic to ask Greenville

[3:03:31] taxpayers to fund your

[3:03:33] marketing campaign. We must be

[3:03:35] crystal clear. This problem did

[3:03:37] not exist until Camping World

[3:03:38] stirred up controversy. They

[3:03:41] made the quiet, noble act of

[3:03:42] flying a flag into a huge

[3:03:44] marketing campaign. Hiding

[3:03:46] behind the flag, this company

[3:03:48] pushed its way forward,

[3:03:49] attracting attention for itself

[3:03:52] and forcing our city staff to

[3:03:53] focus on its lawbreaking. Make

[3:03:54] no mistake, that

[3:03:55] s the request

[3:03:57] here to force the good people

[3:03:58] of Greenville to bend to

[3:04:01] bullying. Do we not have more

[3:04:02] important issues now? Do we not

[3:04:05] have poverty, a lack of housing,

[3:04:07] insufficient healthcare? Do we

[3:04:08] not have children who need our

[3:04:10] focus, who need food and safe

[3:04:12] places to play. Safe

[3:04:14] intersections and learning. Do

[3:04:16] we not have elderly people

[3:04:18] without caretakers? Do we not

[3:04:19] have countless other priorities

[3:04:21] right now. Indeed, those of us

[3:04:25] sitting here. We only want to

[3:04:26] focus on helping and supporting

[3:04:28] our citizens. Providing clean

[3:04:32] air, soil and water. Job

[3:04:33] opportunities, safe streets and

[3:04:36] safety in our homes. Genuine

[3:04:37] economic development like the

[3:04:38] hopeful industrial park we

[3:04:42] toured on Tuesday. We welcomed

[3:04:43] this business into our

[3:04:44] community and what has it done

[3:04:46] in return? Light on its

[3:04:48] building permit application.

[3:04:50] Place itself above all other

[3:04:51] businesses in this community

[3:04:53] who managed to flourish while

[3:04:53] flying the flag according to

[3:04:57] code. Refused to pay fines

[3:04:59] currently totaling over $8000

[3:05:01] and divided our community. So

[3:05:03] the central issue is this, does

[3:05:04] the city give a reward for

[3:05:07] breaking the law? Do we change

[3:05:11] our laws for illegal behavior?

[3:05:13] Can you imagine the mayhem? If

[3:05:14] we changed our laws for every

[3:05:16] lawbreaker. And if that

[3:05:17] lawbreaker hides behind the

[3:05:22] flag, does it make it ok? Last,

[3:05:23] safety has been addressed. The

[3:05:24] flag poses a safety risk. We

[3:05:25] ve

[3:05:26] heard tonight how it poses a

[3:05:27] light and noise risk. It

[3:05:28] s

[3:05:29] almost 3/4 the size of a

[3:05:32] basketball court. In 130 ft

[3:05:32] high, it

[3:05:34] s 13 stories, which is

[3:05:35] higher than anything else in

[3:05:36] Greenville. It

[3:05:36] s not been

[3:05:38] inspected. Greenville is

[3:05:40] central, as we know, to

[3:05:42] hurricanes, tornadoes,

[3:05:43] destructive winds and storms.

[3:05:45] Can we risk a display of this

[3:05:47] size so near two major traffic

[3:05:48] corridors, neighborhoods, other

[3:05:49] businesses and homes. And it

[3:05:50] can

[3:05:52] t be flown at half-mast is

[3:05:53] how it has helped, as has been

[3:05:55] discussed. Finally, from the

[3:05:57] start, this company acted in

[3:05:59] bad faith, lying on his

[3:06:00] building permit application,

[3:06:01] claiming it would comply with

[3:06:05] city laws. And like council

[3:06:06] member Scully described, I

[3:06:06] ve

[3:06:08] heard from many of you and

[3:06:11] overwhelmingly. Overwhelmingly

[3:06:12] You disagree with this text

[3:06:15] amendment. At a very basic

[3:06:16] level, I was elected to serve

[3:06:20] the people. I was also elected

[3:06:21] to, to listen to my own

[3:06:23] conscience. Well, in this case,

[3:06:25] they come together. Researching

[3:06:27] this company, I learned that in

[3:06:29] DECEMBER, Camping World will be

[3:06:31] was required to pay the state

[3:06:33] of Oregon $3.5 million to

[3:06:36] settle a lawsuit involving a

[3:06:37] multi-year consumer protection

[3:06:39] investigation by the Oregon

[3:06:40] Department of Justice. Under

[3:06:42] the terms of the agreement, 3

[3:06:44] million will be used to refund

[3:06:46] customers who paid more than

[3:06:48] the advertised price when

[3:06:49] during negotiations, the

[3:06:50] company would call back

[3:06:51] discounted prices by double

[3:06:54] charging them. So in conclusion,

[3:06:55] we have 3 questions. What

[3:06:56] action is best for our

[3:06:58] community? We were elected to

[3:06:59] serve the people of Greenville

[3:07:02] and act in predictable ways,

[3:07:03] upholding the law and

[3:07:03] fulfilling the will of our

[3:07:06] community. 2, what action

[3:07:09] represents good policy. Our

[3:07:10] ordinances are established for

[3:07:12] the good of all in our city.

[3:07:13] Changing policy in response to

[3:07:17] one violation. Is wrong. And

[3:07:18] finally, what action

[3:07:19] demonstrates the values we

[3:07:21] believe in. Removing this

[3:07:22] oversized flag will show that

[3:07:25] we honor and uphold the dignity

[3:07:26] of our national symbol and obey

[3:07:29] the rule of law. I cannot in

[3:07:31] good, in good conscience

[3:07:32] support this text amendment

[3:07:34] that rewards bad faith actions,

[3:07:36] illegal behavior, and

[3:07:36] dishonoring our nation

[3:07:36] s

[3:07:39] highest symbol. Council Mayor

[3:07:43] Wills. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I,

[3:07:45] um, I really encouraged by the

[3:07:46] civic engagement that I

[3:07:47] ve seen

[3:07:49] tonight and as um council

[3:07:51] member Scully, um, was able to

[3:07:52] reference the different emails

[3:07:52] that we

[3:07:53] ve received. Um, I

[3:07:53] m

[3:07:55] glad that you were able to give

[3:07:57] voice to um what people MAY not

[3:07:58] enlarge might have known about

[3:08:01] in terms of those emails. Um,

[3:08:03] so we are aware that on JANUARY

[3:08:05] 9th, that the council decided

[3:08:09] to, um, Unanimously deny a

[3:08:10] petition by Camping World and

[3:08:13] so I want to give a little

[3:08:15] context as to why then in

[3:08:18] JANUARY there was a flip. So on

[3:08:19] JANUARY 25th of this year as

[3:08:21] the city council concluded our

[3:08:23] annual planning retreat, we

[3:08:25] were advised to go into closed

[3:08:25] session. It wasn

[3:08:26] t until we got

[3:08:28] into closed session that we

[3:08:30] learned one of the topics we

[3:08:30] would be discussing was the

[3:08:33] flag. There was great concern

[3:08:36] about the desired city outcomes,

[3:08:37] the legal ramifications and the

[3:08:40] public perception. After about

[3:08:43] an hour, an hour, y

[3:08:43] all of um

[3:08:45] discussion. I was left with

[3:08:47] only one question. What do I

[3:08:48] consider to be a win in this

[3:08:52] situation. We as a council are

[3:08:54] representation of the city and

[3:08:57] our unity or the lack thereof

[3:08:58] will permeate throughout our

[3:09:02] city. So as a result, my

[3:09:03] contribution to the discussion

[3:09:05] was to yield to whatever

[3:09:08] decision would bring peace. It

[3:09:10] was advised that what would

[3:09:11] bring peace would be to request

[3:09:13] our staff to create a text

[3:09:14] amendment to allow Camping

[3:09:15] World to to fly their current

[3:09:17] flag. Once we came out of

[3:09:19] closed session, we took a vote

[3:09:21] requesting this, requesting the

[3:09:22] staff to, uh, draft that

[3:09:23] amendment and bring it back to

[3:09:24] us, which is why we

[3:09:24] re here

[3:09:30] tonight. Unfortunately, upon.

[3:09:31] Leaving the planning retreat,

[3:09:33] not even about 20 minutes after

[3:09:34] taking that vote, I read on

[3:09:37] social media a post that I felt

[3:09:38] was a complete

[3:09:39] misrepresentation of the

[3:09:40] immense thought and

[3:09:41] consideration that we as a

[3:09:42] council put into making our

[3:09:45] decision. It seemed to

[3:09:46] undermine our purest intentions.

[3:09:49] I felt as though while we

[3:09:50] sought to be united on this

[3:09:52] issue, perhaps we were united

[3:09:54] around the wrong issue. Instead

[3:09:56] of placating a known bully,

[3:09:56] there

[3:09:56] s that word again. I

[3:09:57] ve

[3:09:58] heard it a couple of times

[3:10:00] tonight. Uh, instead of

[3:10:02] placating a known bully, we and

[3:10:03] allowing them to exploit our

[3:10:05] city for profit, national media

[3:10:07] attention, and it is, excuse me,

[3:10:09] instead of placating a known

[3:10:11] bully and allowing them to

[3:10:13] exploit our city for profit and

[3:10:15] national media attention. It is

[3:10:17] my conviction that we should be

[3:10:18] standing firm and united,

[3:10:20] showing that we are smarter

[3:10:21] than the tactic tactics that

[3:10:24] seek to divide us. This issue,

[3:10:25] as stated before, has never

[3:10:27] been about the American flag.

[3:10:28] If it were, I believe that

[3:10:30] Camping World would abide by,

[3:10:31] um, the flag code and its

[3:10:34] standards. Our ordinances,

[3:10:35] regulations, and policies

[3:10:36] should stand in camping world

[3:10:39] should abide by our standards.

[3:10:40] Or face financial or legal

[3:10:43] consequences. I also want to

[3:10:44] note that Camping World can

[3:10:46] still make this right. They can

[3:10:48] take down the flag pole and the

[3:10:49] flag that

[3:10:49] s in violation and

[3:10:51] replace it with what they

[3:10:52] initially said they would

[3:10:55] install via the permit. The

[3:10:57] city could then inspect it, and

[3:10:58] if all goes well, then they

[3:10:59] would be in compliance with the

[3:11:03] city policy. After all, bright

[3:11:04] is still right and wrong is

[3:11:08] still wrong. While I appreciate

[3:11:09] our staff a hearing and

[3:11:11] providing the council with our

[3:11:13] request. It is my intention to

[3:11:14] vote against the drafted

[3:11:15] amendment and I

[3:11:15] m glad to know

[3:11:16] that I

[3:11:17] m not the only one who

[3:11:18] feels that way tonight. Thank

[3:11:22] you, Mayor. Any other comments?

[3:11:22] I

[3:11:26] ll make mine. Um I didn

[3:11:26] t

[3:11:32] write anything. Um, I am not a

[3:11:33] politician. I say that all the

[3:11:36] time. Um, I

[3:11:37] m a public servant,

[3:11:37] and I

[3:11:42] m a servant leader. Uh As

[3:11:45] it relates to this issue, my

[3:11:45] posture has not changed from

[3:11:50] the beginning. So, uh, yes,

[3:11:52] there have been several

[3:11:55] conversations about Uh, camping

[3:11:56] world and flag on different

[3:12:01] dates. My posture. And my

[3:12:03] comments have remained

[3:12:04] consistent every time we

[3:12:07] discussed it. Uh, even on

[3:12:10] JANUARY 25th. There might have

[3:12:11] been some flipping, but I

[3:12:11] didn

[3:12:16] t flip. I was standing 4.

[3:12:18] Us to vote against the flag.

[3:12:20] Even if I had to stand alone

[3:12:23] because like. COUNCILWOMAN

[3:12:24] Willis just said right is right

[3:12:28] and wrong is wrong. Uh, we

[3:12:29] definitely know that they were

[3:12:30] dishonest. I

[3:12:32] m not gonna repeat

[3:12:34] everything, um, one of my

[3:12:36] biggest concerns was safety.

[3:12:37] The flag has not been inspected.

[3:12:44] Um, and, Where it is located is

[3:12:47] a major thoroughfare. And so

[3:12:48] with the dynamics of our

[3:12:53] community. If we were to have a

[3:12:56] hurricane or a strong storm. I

[3:12:59] was really concerned about if

[3:13:02] the post um fail or. If the

[3:13:06] flag came loose and went on

[3:13:08] Evans Street and, you know, uh,

[3:13:09] cover some cars or something

[3:13:11] like that and cause a major

[3:13:14] accident. Um, in addition to

[3:13:21] that, If it were any one else.

[3:13:23] Anywhere else in our city with

[3:13:27] any other type of flag, I asked

[3:13:29] our staff what would you do and

[3:13:32] how would you respond? I don

[3:13:32] t

[3:13:34] feel like I got a completely

[3:13:35] honest answer. I think in

[3:13:39] certain parts of the city, if

[3:13:40] the flag that size with a pole

[3:13:42] that high had been put up, it

[3:13:44] would have already been

[3:13:46] bulldozed down. And the

[3:13:50] so-called patriots that have

[3:13:52] been um abusing people with

[3:13:53] their rhetoric would have been

[3:13:56] out there cheering them on with

[3:13:57] megaphones while they bulldozed.

[3:13:59] So there

[3:14:00] s a lack of

[3:14:04] consistency. When we have

[3:14:05] expectations for what type of

[3:14:07] laws we have in our city and

[3:14:10] who are to uphold them. Uh, the

[3:14:12] amount of money someone has in

[3:14:13] their bank account should not

[3:14:15] dictate that. So that was one

[3:14:19] of the reasons that I again

[3:14:20] consistently every time we

[3:14:20] ve

[3:14:22] had the conversation, have not

[3:14:26] supported. This flag. Lastly,

[3:14:26] there

[3:14:27] s nothing about the flag

[3:14:31] that is official. This is not

[3:14:33] an official governmentaa. It

[3:14:36] does not meet the standards of

[3:14:37] an official government flag,

[3:14:41] not based on our ordinances nor

[3:14:43] based on the ordinances of a

[3:14:45] larger flag that might be flown

[3:14:47] on government buildings. In

[3:14:52] addition to that, Um, it cannot

[3:14:54] meet the requirements of What

[3:14:56] our flags are supposed to meet

[3:14:58] again, not gonna go through

[3:14:59] everything that everyone else

[3:15:01] has gone through, but we can

[3:15:01] t

[3:15:03] fly half staff. And so if it

[3:15:04] doesn

[3:15:05] t meet the standards and

[3:15:05] it can

[3:15:07] t meet the requirements,

[3:15:09] we should not support it. Uh,

[3:15:15] lastly. The bottom line is

[3:15:17] there is a marketing ploy. We

[3:15:22] have been used. To press

[3:15:22] someone

[3:15:25] s marketing efforts.

[3:15:26] And we should not stand for

[3:15:33] that. And we might not want to

[3:15:35] spend tax dollars to uh take

[3:15:37] this to court, but we sometimes

[3:15:38] wanted, we

[3:15:39] re ok with choosing

[3:15:40] tax dollars to take other

[3:15:42] things to court, uh, and I

[3:15:42] m

[3:15:44] not gonna call out any

[3:15:46] particular situations, but

[3:15:46] we

[3:15:48] ve got situations in our

[3:15:49] community where citizens have

[3:15:52] felt wronged. Um, and so we

[3:15:54] need to be consistent and we

[3:15:56] also can find money when we

[3:15:57] need to to support other things.

[3:16:01] So we need to support our

[3:16:04] values first. We need to set

[3:16:05] standards for what we will and

[3:16:06] will not accept in our

[3:16:10] community. And what we will and

[3:16:10] will not uphold in our

[3:16:14] community. Uh, I did not

[3:16:15] support it then. I did not

[3:16:17] support it on any of those

[3:16:19] other dates, I will not support

[3:16:23] it tonight. We need to make

[3:16:26] sure. That we

[3:16:27] re making clear

[3:16:29] what we will and will not

[3:16:32] accept in our community that

[3:16:32] doesn

[3:16:35] t define us as patriots

[3:16:37] or not because what defines us

[3:16:39] as patriots is how we treat

[3:16:43] each other. Not whether or not

[3:16:43] we

[3:16:44] re fine a

[3:16:44] and what size

[3:16:46] it is. That

[3:16:47] s all I have to say.

[3:16:51] Any of the comments? Yes. Mayor

[3:16:56] for Tim Daniels. So, um, I must

[3:16:57] say that I, I agree with what

[3:16:59] everyone is saying. I do

[3:17:01] believe that this is a ploy by

[3:17:04] Camping World. I do believe.

[3:17:08] That this has been done, um.

[3:17:08] And it

[3:17:09] s wrong. I do believe

[3:17:12] that. But my decision is not

[3:17:15] based on camping world. Um, I

[3:17:17] have spoken with. In um,

[3:17:20] council members and Um

[3:17:22] Statesville I

[3:17:23] ve done my

[3:17:23] research. He

[3:17:24] s been doing this

[3:17:27] since 2014. It, it, I mean, it

[3:17:30] just goes on and on and on.

[3:17:31] California spent almost 2 years.

[3:17:34] And then they stated they could

[3:17:38] not afford to move any further.

[3:17:43] Um, we ask the Our city staff.

[3:17:45] To adjust the amendment or How,

[3:17:47] how we want to say it, um, and

[3:17:49] they did just that. They put

[3:17:50] those hours and they put that

[3:17:51] work in, and that is

[3:17:54] appreciated. I, for one, am

[3:17:56] going to vote for this

[3:17:58] amendment, one for the safety

[3:18:00] of our citizens. We need to get

[3:18:02] to that pole to ensure that it

[3:18:04] is safe for the citizens of

[3:18:08] Greenville. And yes, this is a

[3:18:10] a ploy tactic for this

[3:18:14] gentleman, but I am good

[3:18:15] conscience cannot ask taxpayers

[3:18:17] to pay for it. They still,

[3:18:17] they

[3:18:19] ve not paid any fine. So

[3:18:20] the only thing, only people

[3:18:21] that are going to be paying are

[3:18:25] us. They still owe Statesville

[3:18:28] $14,000. They do not pay. And

[3:18:30] yes, it MAY appear that we

[3:18:30] re

[3:18:32] giving in, but I just, there

[3:18:35] are too many other things. That

[3:18:39] we can do with. The needs of

[3:18:40] our citizens and in Greenville.

[3:18:46] Thank you. Robinson. The

[3:18:49] difficulty With this between

[3:18:52] council. And those in the

[3:18:54] audience and those who MAY be

[3:18:57] watching us online. Is that

[3:18:58] unlike a speeding sign that was

[3:18:59] an all, well, if, if you

[3:18:59] re

[3:19:00] speeding, we just raise the

[3:19:02] speed limit. That

[3:19:02] s a bad

[3:19:05] comparison. Because this flag

[3:19:06] is something that means so much

[3:19:09] to so many people. And so for

[3:19:10] everybody that

[3:19:10] s spoken tonight

[3:19:12] and come here and support to

[3:19:14] not do it, there have been an

[3:19:15] equal number probably online

[3:19:17] who have said the same thing,

[3:19:17] but there

[3:19:18] s also just as many

[3:19:20] people who say let it fly. Let

[3:19:21] it fly. It

[3:19:23] s beautiful. And I

[3:19:24] think if you were to take a

[3:19:25] tally, I think it would

[3:19:27] probably be almost a

[3:19:28] fifty-fifty split if we were to

[3:19:30] read the comments of everybody

[3:19:31] that has a viewpoint about this.

[3:19:32] And that

[3:19:33] s why because the flag

[3:19:35] means so much to so many people

[3:19:35] and, and I

[3:19:37] ve had many like

[3:19:37] this

[3:19:38] can

[3:19:38] t be fired at

[3:19:40] half-mast if many of you heard

[3:19:42] my comments when the manager,

[3:19:44] uh, it was basically like a

[3:19:45] cross-examination. You never

[3:19:47] intended to do that. I

[3:19:47] m upset

[3:19:48] because I, I like the rule of

[3:19:49] law. I like you to abide by the

[3:19:51] rule of law. And the marking

[3:19:54] ploy of this is a genius

[3:19:55] because he divides communities

[3:19:56] with something that

[3:19:56] s so near

[3:19:57] and dear to all of us, and

[3:19:58] that

[3:20:00] s the American flag. And,

[3:20:01] and to many people, it

[3:20:01] s very

[3:20:03] near and dear. Those who

[3:20:03] ve

[3:20:04] served, and thank you for your

[3:20:05] service. I have many good

[3:20:06] friends that have served our

[3:20:08] country, many who still serve

[3:20:10] our country and that are very

[3:20:11] hard about how you honor the

[3:20:13] flag and the protocol that you

[3:20:14] do it and how you don

[3:20:14] t do it.

[3:20:15] And I

[3:20:15] ve had an equal number of

[3:20:16] people who have come to me and

[3:20:17] said it

[3:20:18] s a beautiful flag. It

[3:20:19] looks glorious as it flies in

[3:20:20] the wind. Why don

[3:20:21] t let it fly?

[3:20:22] And see, that

[3:20:22] s what divides

[3:20:24] all of us. And that

[3:20:25] s what

[3:20:26] makes it difficult decision.

[3:20:27] This is not like increasing the

[3:20:29] speed limit or doing something

[3:20:30] like that, that we all can

[3:20:31] agree upon. We don

[3:20:32] t raise

[3:20:34] speed limits because you speed.

[3:20:35] This is something that is very

[3:20:36] near. And I think we

[3:20:36] ve even

[3:20:38] said if they had come to us in

[3:20:40] JUNE of last year. This council

[3:20:41] MAY have approved this type of

[3:20:43] amendment. I

[3:20:44] m not trying to

[3:20:45] judge anybody on here, but it

[3:20:46] would have been different but

[3:20:48] they chose not to, because this

[3:20:50] is their marketing ploy. They

[3:20:52] want to keep this stirred up.

[3:20:52] That

[3:20:53] s their entire goal closes

[3:20:55] the more more it keeps stirred

[3:20:56] up, the more it keeps camping

[3:20:59] rolled in the eye, and so you

[3:21:00] get people complaining from all

[3:21:01] over the country calling our

[3:21:03] staff and making threats to

[3:21:04] them about taking this, I mean,

[3:21:04] and so we

[3:21:05] ve had to deal with

[3:21:07] that. So we have our staff

[3:21:08] dealing with that. There

[3:21:08] s a

[3:21:08] number of people who want to

[3:21:09] flag to fly it is. So we

[3:21:10] re up

[3:21:11] here like, what do we do? On

[3:21:12] the one hand, it

[3:21:12] s the rule of

[3:21:16] law. And they violated it. On

[3:21:17] the other hand, it

[3:21:17] s a flag

[3:21:18] that maybe people say should

[3:21:19] fly regardless, the bigger the

[3:21:23] better. So what do we do? Well,

[3:21:25] One of the things we could do

[3:21:26] is we could amend the flag

[3:21:27] minute, they come to us, they

[3:21:27] didn

[3:21:28] t, and they gave some

[3:21:30] ridiculous. Amendment language

[3:21:31] that they knew we weren

[3:21:31] t going

[3:21:34] to pass. It was ridiculous and

[3:21:34] they do that because that

[3:21:35] s in

[3:21:36] fact the exact ploy that they

[3:21:37] do. It

[3:21:38] s a game they play. And

[3:21:40] so then they won a battle

[3:21:42] because it keeps it stirred up.

[3:21:43] And so at the end of the day,

[3:21:45] if we deny this, what do we do

[3:21:47] next? Do we sue them to remove

[3:21:49] the flag because as, as council

[3:21:51] member mayor Prote Daniel said,

[3:21:51] it

[3:21:52] s a safety issue. We can

[3:21:52] t

[3:21:54] get in there. I believe that if,

[3:21:56] if it gets passed and we get in

[3:21:56] there, they

[3:21:57] ll let us inspect

[3:21:58] it and they

[3:21:59] ll pay the fines

[3:22:00] because at that point we

[3:22:00] ve

[3:22:01] taken the air out of their

[3:22:03] sails. They can no longer hide

[3:22:04] behind the flag and say, oh,

[3:22:04] Gloria, you

[3:22:05] re trying to take

[3:22:07] it down. The flag is there. And

[3:22:08] now we

[3:22:08] re saying you

[3:22:09] re not,

[3:22:09] you

[3:22:09] re a bad person because

[3:22:10] you

[3:22:11] re not taking it down. And

[3:22:11] that

[3:22:13] s what makes this decision

[3:22:15] so difficult for all of us. It

[3:22:15] is, it

[3:22:16] s probably the most

[3:22:17] difficult decision I

[3:22:17] ve been

[3:22:18] involved in since I

[3:22:18] ve been on

[3:22:20] council and since I was on

[3:22:21] planning and zoning, and it

[3:22:21] s

[3:22:22] the one decision I

[3:22:23] ve seen

[3:22:23] that

[3:22:24] s divided our community in

[3:22:26] half, if, if not almost to the

[3:22:28] point of being 50/50 on both

[3:22:29] sides. And, you know, on the

[3:22:31] one hand, you want to abide by

[3:22:32] the law, on the other hand, you

[3:22:32] don

[3:22:34] t be involved in litigation.

[3:22:37] And when I give those calls,

[3:22:37] that

[3:22:37] s not some speculated high

[3:22:38] number. That

[3:22:39] s from 39 years of

[3:22:40] doing litigation because that

[3:22:40] s

[3:22:43] what I do every single day. It

[3:22:45] will be that, if not more, and

[3:22:46] probably a year and a half or 2

[3:22:47] years. And if we

[3:22:48] re deny this,

[3:22:48] that

[3:22:49] s what we

[3:22:49] re looking at.

[3:22:50] And, and if we

[3:22:51] re prepared to

[3:22:52] go that route and the council

[3:22:53] votes that way. That

[3:22:54] s our,

[3:22:55] because if you don

[3:22:56] t pass it,

[3:22:56] and what

[3:22:57] s the next step? What

[3:23:01] do we do? And I

[3:23:01] m not through

[3:23:02] yet. Oh, ok, I

[3:23:02] m sorry. I

[3:23:02] ll

[3:23:03] let you know when I

[3:23:04] m through.

[3:23:05] And, and so do we file

[3:23:08] litigation? And go against them

[3:23:10] and you say yes until you start

[3:23:11] realizing, I think you have a

[3:23:12] lot of things we need to move

[3:23:15] on and do other things. We

[3:23:15] start taking taxpayer money and

[3:23:17] funding it into a lawsuit. And

[3:23:18] what one said they finally just

[3:23:19] gave up, they couldn

[3:23:20] t afford

[3:23:22] to spend anymore. There are an

[3:23:23] equal number of people that as

[3:23:25] you shake your heads, no, shake

[3:23:26] your head no, let

[3:23:27] s don

[3:23:27] t do a

[3:23:28] lawsuit. And that

[3:23:29] s what again

[3:23:30] is making this difficult

[3:23:31] decision because you

[3:23:31] re in this

[3:23:32] room, but you

[3:23:32] re not the only

[3:23:35] ones with an opinion. The rest

[3:23:36] of our community have opinions

[3:23:38] likewise, and I guarantee you

[3:23:38] it

[3:23:39] s about fifty-fifty from

[3:23:39] what I

[3:23:40] ve heard and I

[3:23:40] ve read

[3:23:41] just about every comment I

[3:23:42] could try to read, whether it

[3:23:44] was in favor or not in favor,

[3:23:46] because when I first looked at

[3:23:47] this thing, I was the one

[3:23:49] asking this guy about the fraud

[3:23:50] involved in it, about how they

[3:23:50] didn

[3:23:52] t fly at half-mast when

[3:23:52] Jimmy Carter passed away and

[3:23:54] how the, the flag should have

[3:23:54] been. I

[3:23:55] m the one that

[3:23:55] s doing

[3:23:56] all that. But now I

[3:23:56] m looking

[3:23:58] at it from a practical

[3:23:59] standpoint, what do we do as a

[3:24:00] city council next with our

[3:24:01] revenues and how do we spend

[3:24:03] our money and what do we do?

[3:24:05] And again, unlike a speeding

[3:24:06] light, uh, that everybody says

[3:24:06] we can

[3:24:07] t, we don

[3:24:08] t change

[3:24:09] speeding. This is something

[3:24:09] that

[3:24:10] s very different, and

[3:24:10] that

[3:24:11] s why it makes this

[3:24:13] decision so difficult. And I

[3:24:14] remember as a lawyer arguing in

[3:24:16] front of the judges. It

[3:24:16] s very

[3:24:17] difficult to be the judge. It

[3:24:18] s

[3:24:19] easy to be the advocate for one

[3:24:20] side or the other. If you

[3:24:21] re

[3:24:23] advocate for one side, you can

[3:24:24] really advocate good. The other

[3:24:25] side, you can advocate good,

[3:24:26] but then we

[3:24:26] re the judges now,

[3:24:28] we have to make the decision,

[3:24:29] which I want every one of you

[3:24:31] in this room and all of those

[3:24:32] watching, the decisions all of

[3:24:34] us have to make are very

[3:24:34] difficult. They

[3:24:35] re not easy.

[3:24:38] Not, I mean, very difficult. I

[3:24:39] think everybody up here has,

[3:24:41] has really had to think hard

[3:24:42] about this, regardless of what

[3:24:43] their position is and where

[3:24:44] they come down. And so I want

[3:24:45] everybody to know that it

[3:24:46] s

[3:24:47] been very difficult. And so at

[3:24:48] the end of the day, what do we

[3:24:50] do? I mean, really, what do we

[3:24:51] do? Because if we don

[3:24:51] t pass

[3:24:54] this, Then the next step I

[3:24:59] litigation. Or do nothing. And

[3:25:00] so with those comments, I

[3:25:00] ll

[3:25:02] conclude. Thank you. I didn

[3:25:02] t

[3:25:04] mean to cut you off my back.

[3:25:04] I

[3:25:05] m just, no, I appreciate that.

[3:25:06] That

[3:25:06] s fine because I, I

[3:25:08] actually had a legal question.

[3:25:09] Ok, go ahead. I don

[3:25:10] t want to

[3:25:12] get into unauthorized practice

[3:25:12] of law because I know about

[3:25:15] that. But, um, and I

[3:25:15] ve heard

[3:25:18] of this, um, in, in being in

[3:25:19] legal circles, and somebody

[3:25:21] actually just texted it to me,

[3:25:24] which is, um, under, um, I

[3:25:24] think it

[3:25:27] s, uh, unfair trade

[3:25:28] practice, the uh unfair and

[3:25:29] deceptive trade practices, you

[3:25:30] get to treble your damages and

[3:25:36] attorney fees. This is not

[3:25:38] unfair to a trade. Well, again,

[3:25:41] not an attorney, but I am. Ok.

[3:25:41] Well, I

[3:25:42] m, I

[3:25:42] m I

[3:25:43] m asking

[3:25:44] actually gonna ask with with

[3:25:44] respect, I

[3:25:46] m gonna ask our city

[3:25:46] attorney since he

[3:25:47] s going to

[3:25:51] speak for all of us, um. I know

[3:25:51] that that in private litigation.

[3:25:56] You can recover legal fees

[3:25:57] under those circumstances and

[3:25:59] treble damages. Um, so can you

[3:26:02] address? And you MAY have

[3:26:03] already answered this, so I

[3:26:03] m

[3:26:05] just kind of following up. If

[3:26:07] we as a city prevailed in a

[3:26:10] lawsuit. Would we be able to

[3:26:12] recover our legal fees and

[3:26:13] possibly treble damages, in

[3:26:14] order to recover your legal

[3:26:17] fees, you need a specific

[3:26:18] statute that allows the city to

[3:26:21] recover if it prevailed, and we

[3:26:22] would need to research that

[3:26:23] statue to see if that

[3:26:24] s a

[3:26:25] viable claim, unfair trade

[3:26:27] practices in this context. You

[3:26:29] know, they, I think the um We

[3:26:29] don

[3:26:30] t need to get into all this

[3:26:31] in in public either, but we can

[3:26:32] talk about that. But here, you

[3:26:33] know, camping world, I think

[3:26:35] would say. They

[3:26:36] re displaying

[3:26:37] the American flag, not for

[3:26:38] commercial purposes or whatever,

[3:26:38] they would say that they

[3:26:40] re

[3:26:41] Exercising their First

[3:26:42] Amendment right to. Display the

[3:26:44] flag, so, um, like other

[3:26:45] businesses, theirs is just

[3:26:46] larger, so, you know, that

[3:26:48] would have to be researched.

[3:26:49] That would be a novel. We have

[3:26:53] to research that. Kind of an

[3:26:53] inconclusive response at this

[3:26:57] point. Thank you. I

[3:26:58] m the only

[3:26:58] one that hasn

[3:27:01] t commented yet.

[3:27:03] Um, uh, from the beginning,

[3:27:03] I

[3:27:04] ve always said that I thought

[3:27:07] the flag is beautiful, um. I

[3:27:09] enjoy going by it and seeing it

[3:27:10] displayed every single day that

[3:27:14] I go by there. Um I

[3:27:16] wholeheartedly disagree with

[3:27:20] the method of which. The

[3:27:22] company went towards getting a

[3:27:25] permit and filing a permit to

[3:27:28] Erect a pole that was much

[3:27:29] smaller than what was there in

[3:27:31] a flag that was much smaller.

[3:27:32] But ultimately I

[3:27:32] ve, I

[3:27:33] ve said

[3:27:34] this publicly many times at the

[3:27:35] end of the day, there

[3:27:35] s some

[3:27:36] fights that are worth fighting,

[3:27:38] some that are not, and as

[3:27:38] you

[3:27:41] ve seen. Our community has

[3:27:44] gone through a lot over the

[3:27:45] last several months over a

[3:27:46] discussion about an American

[3:27:48] flag. I love the American flag.

[3:27:49] I have people here that have

[3:27:51] talked, we have veterans here

[3:27:52] that have talked in favor and

[3:27:54] against, I think would be, I

[3:27:55] think, uh, the gentleman, MR.

[3:27:57] Parker up here is, was against,

[3:27:57] but I

[3:27:58] ve had other veterans

[3:27:59] that have reached out to me

[3:27:59] through email, through phone

[3:28:01] calls, through text messages

[3:28:03] that are in favor of it. And

[3:28:06] the fact that Um, we

[3:28:06] ve been up

[3:28:07] here and we

[3:28:09] ve made it such a

[3:28:11] divisive issue. And we

[3:28:12] re just

[3:28:13] going to prolong it and make

[3:28:16] this go on and on for an

[3:28:16] extended period of time. It

[3:28:16] s

[3:28:18] not good for our community.

[3:28:18] I

[3:28:19] ve said from the beginning

[3:28:21] that we need to go ahead and

[3:28:22] move forward with this. There

[3:28:22] s

[3:28:23] other issues in our community

[3:28:25] that we need to be dealing with,

[3:28:25] um, you

[3:28:26] ve seen other

[3:28:26] communities that are continuing

[3:28:27] to fight it, Mayor Pro Tem

[3:28:29] Daniels just a few minutes ago

[3:28:30] was talking about another

[3:28:31] community that has spent years.

[3:28:34] Fighting something. And there

[3:28:34] s,

[3:28:34] there

[3:28:36] s no reason for us as a

[3:28:38] community to continue to do it.

[3:28:38] Greenville

[3:28:39] s an amazing city.

[3:28:40] We all live here, we

[3:28:40] ve seen

[3:28:40] the expansion that

[3:28:41] s taken

[3:28:41] place. We

[3:28:42] ve seen great

[3:28:42] development that

[3:28:43] s taken place.

[3:28:44] Uh, we

[3:28:45] ve seen new things that

[3:28:46] have popped up throughout our

[3:28:47] community. We

[3:28:48] ve seen lots of

[3:28:49] revitalization. We

[3:28:49] ve seen new

[3:28:50] projects that have taken place

[3:28:55] over and over. And here we are

[3:28:58] suspending months on end. On a

[3:29:00] flag that is flying on one

[3:29:03] commercial parcel. And you know,

[3:29:04] I think the camping world

[3:29:05] should have to pay all the

[3:29:07] fines, but I think as a city we

[3:29:08] directed the staff to come up

[3:29:11] with an ordinance. Or excuse me,

[3:29:12] a text amendment to change the

[3:29:14] ordinance to be able to allow

[3:29:15] the flag to fly, and here we

[3:29:19] are. A month and a half later.

[3:29:20] And everything that the city

[3:29:24] staff put. Put together and and

[3:29:25] presented to us. Is for nothing.

[3:29:27] It

[3:29:30] s for absolutely nothing. I

[3:29:33] just, in my personal opinion. I

[3:29:33] don

[3:29:33] t, I don

[3:29:34] t think it

[3:29:34] s worth

[3:29:37] continuing to fight it. I, I

[3:29:39] think, uh, council member, uh,

[3:29:40] Robinson and Mayor Prote

[3:29:42] Daniels said it, said it best.

[3:29:42] It

[3:29:43] s time to move on. I mean, I

[3:29:44] feel like it

[3:29:45] s time to move on.

[3:29:45] It

[3:29:47] s time to go and fight a

[3:29:47] fight that

[3:29:49] s worth fighting, um,

[3:29:49] we

[3:29:50] re all Americans, every

[3:29:51] single one of us that

[3:29:51] s in this

[3:29:54] in this room. Um It

[3:29:55] s time for

[3:29:57] us to go ahead and put this

[3:29:58] behind us and by us going up

[3:29:59] here and prolonging this and

[3:30:00] just wanting to fight and punch

[3:30:03] a bully. What are we gonna win?

[3:30:04] Cause as soon as you, as soon

[3:30:05] as you leave, Something

[3:30:06] s gonna

[3:30:07] be on x, right? Something

[3:30:07] s

[3:30:08] gonna be on social media.

[3:30:08] Something

[3:30:09] s gonna be on there

[3:30:10] talking about how the city of

[3:30:11] Greenville told us that we had

[3:30:12] to take our flag down. Are they

[3:30:13] gonna read any of the comments

[3:30:15] that were made up here?

[3:30:15] Absolutely not. They

[3:30:15] re gonna

[3:30:16] read any of those comments.

[3:30:17] What they

[3:30:17] re gonna do is

[3:30:17] they

[3:30:18] re gonna go ahead and

[3:30:20] display Greenville as an

[3:30:21] unpatriotic city, and we

[3:30:21] re

[3:30:23] gonna continue this for months

[3:30:23] on end and we

[3:30:25] re gonna continue

[3:30:26] to get emails, phone calls,

[3:30:26] we

[3:30:28] re gonna get social media

[3:30:29] posts about how we

[3:30:29] re a

[3:30:30] terrible city and every one of

[3:30:31] us in this room knows that

[3:30:31] we

[3:30:32] re not a terrible city.

[3:30:33] We

[3:30:33] re an incredible city. We

[3:30:34] ve

[3:30:34] got great people here. We

[3:30:35] ve

[3:30:35] got great staff that

[3:30:36] s here.

[3:30:38] That takes care of us on a

[3:30:40] daily basis, so and my, my

[3:30:41] personal opinion, I just, I

[3:30:41] don

[3:30:42] t, I don

[3:30:42] t agree with some

[3:30:45] of my colleagues up here about

[3:30:46] going forward and denying this

[3:30:47] request, I think it

[3:30:47] s time for

[3:30:49] us to move on as a community.

[3:30:49] That

[3:30:52] s all I got. I

[3:30:53] d like to

[3:30:56] make a motion to deny. All

[3:30:57] right, motion

[3:30:57] s been made by

[3:30:59] Council member Willis, seconded

[3:31:00] by Council member Scully. Any

[3:31:04] other discussion. All those in

[3:31:09] favor please raise your hand.

[3:31:10] All those opposed, please raise

[3:31:13] your hand. Just, and just for

[3:31:14] the record, I don

[3:31:14] t get a vote,

[3:31:16] but I would be against this

[3:31:20] motion. Ok. Motion to deny um

[3:31:22] passes, 4 to 2. So now that

[3:31:22] it

[3:31:23] s denied, I think it

[3:31:23] s

[3:31:25] incumbent on us as a council to

[3:31:26] provide our city staff with

[3:31:27] direction on what direction

[3:31:27] we

[3:31:32] re supposed to go. Mayor. I

[3:31:34] would inform the council you

[3:31:35] have the right to go into

[3:31:38] closed session. For

[3:31:39] attorney-client privilege on

[3:31:40] this evening or another another

[3:31:42] date you. Do we have to go into?

[3:31:42] You don

[3:31:43] t have to, but you have

[3:31:45] a right to. And we might want

[3:31:46] to do that, I think it would be

[3:31:48] ok if we did it out here

[3:31:50] because I think there was some.

[3:31:52] Understanding that things were

[3:31:52] said in Coo

[3:31:53] s session that the

[3:31:53] public didn

[3:31:54] t get to see. I

[3:31:56] think we should talk about it

[3:31:57] out here in open session so

[3:31:59] everybody can see. And if I MAY,

[3:32:00] I think we

[3:32:01] ve had a long

[3:32:01] meeting. We

[3:32:03] ve had a lot of

[3:32:04] conversation earlier when we

[3:32:06] were uh voting on an issue,

[3:32:09] there was a desire to have more

[3:32:12] information, I think. I am not

[3:32:14] prepared tonight in closed or

[3:32:15] open session to talk about our

[3:32:17] next steps. I need more

[3:32:20] information and let me say I

[3:32:22] appreciate council members,

[3:32:24] Robinson, Mayor Proin Daniels,

[3:32:25] and our mayor for saying we

[3:32:28] need to move on. I also want to

[3:32:31] move on. I want to move on in a

[3:32:33] dignified, correct way. So

[3:32:35] before I can think of any next

[3:32:37] steps I need more time. I need

[3:32:39] more information. We need to

[3:32:41] explore things like is it.

[3:32:43] Feasible to to sue, uh, could

[3:32:44] we recoup legal fees? And I MAY

[3:32:46] come back here in 1 month, 2

[3:32:47] months. I don

[3:32:48] t, I don

[3:32:48] t mind

[3:32:50] changing my vote and saying,

[3:32:52] you know what, we explored this

[3:32:52] and now I

[3:32:53] ve changed my mind.

[3:32:53] We just don

[3:32:54] t have any other

[3:32:58] way. But I think for now, I

[3:32:59] need more information before I

[3:33:03] can. Have any conversation

[3:33:04] about next steps. I mean, I

[3:33:05] guess I would ask what type of

[3:33:06] information is needed? We

[3:33:06] ve

[3:33:08] had a month and a half since we

[3:33:10] made the decision and asked the

[3:33:11] staff to come forward with a

[3:33:12] ordinate a text amendment for

[3:33:16] the ordinance. And we gave them

[3:33:18] completely the wrong.

[3:33:20] Impression on it because we

[3:33:21] completely flipped and so as a

[3:33:22] council, we need to provide

[3:33:23] them with some some clear

[3:33:24] guidelines on what we

[3:33:25] re asking

[3:33:26] them to do and at this point

[3:33:26] you

[3:33:27] ve got a business that

[3:33:27] s

[3:33:28] not in compliance with their

[3:33:30] permit. And we

[3:33:31] re not willing

[3:33:32] to make a decision as a council

[3:33:34] to determine what we do next.

[3:33:36] We have a meeting on MARCH 24th,

[3:33:39] am I right? Monday. I would

[3:33:40] like to suggest, I know we all

[3:33:43] kind of want to move on, but I,

[3:33:45] I think tonight is maybe not

[3:33:46] the night for to discuss this

[3:33:48] in closed or open session. I

[3:33:50] suggest that at our uh uh after

[3:33:52] our MARCH 24th session. Uh, a

[3:33:53] meeting that we go into closed

[3:33:56] session. And have this

[3:33:56] conversation regarding the

[3:34:00] legal issues. And then And I

[3:34:02] just like to say I wasn

[3:34:03] t, I

[3:34:03] m

[3:34:05] sorry, um, go ahead. My vote

[3:34:05] wasn

[3:34:07] t based on just moving on.

[3:34:10] At all. It was based on the

[3:34:12] safety and the ability to get

[3:34:16] to the pole and not wanting. If

[3:34:17] we do litigation for it to be

[3:34:19] on the backs of people, not

[3:34:20] just forget it all and move on,

[3:34:20] that

[3:34:21] s, that

[3:34:21] s not my intent at

[3:34:24] all. Don

[3:34:25] t I say that. Yeah, no,

[3:34:26] and I didn

[3:34:26] t interpret it that

[3:34:27] way, but I think you made a

[3:34:28] valid point, which is, yes, we,

[3:34:30] we, we, we, we will need to

[3:34:33] move on and, I just need more

[3:34:34] information. Can we give the

[3:34:36] staff some directions so they

[3:34:37] know, so they can prepare for

[3:34:39] the 24th, but we

[3:34:40] re what our

[3:34:41] expectation is and what you

[3:34:43] wanna know. I would, I would, I

[3:34:44] mean, I feel like that

[3:34:44] s

[3:34:46] something that we owe them I

[3:34:46] m

[3:34:46] gonna, I won

[3:34:47] t speak on behalf

[3:34:48] of the, the legal aspect of

[3:34:49] this, and I

[3:34:50] ll let the attorney

[3:34:51] do that, but I would just ask

[3:34:53] you, you know, let, let us, let

[3:34:54] us know, do you want it at the

[3:34:55] workshop? Do you want the

[3:34:58] council meeting? Do you want a

[3:35:00] closed session, that way we can,

[3:35:02] that staff can plan accordingly.

[3:35:04] Um, clearly, I mean, I have the

[3:35:05] opinion that, I mean, again,

[3:35:05] I

[3:35:06] m not your lawyer, but I had

[3:35:08] an opinion if you

[3:35:08] re gonna talk

[3:35:11] legality and, and, and, and

[3:35:11] future litigation, you should

[3:35:14] seek. The the guidance of your

[3:35:16] attorney and client attorney.

[3:35:17] Privileged information in a

[3:35:18] closed session, but that

[3:35:18] s

[3:35:18] y

[3:35:18] all, y

[3:35:21] all get excited. Uh,

[3:35:25] my opinion on that is if we um

[3:35:28] are going to do, I, I prefer

[3:35:29] open session because last time

[3:35:31] we discussed it in closed

[3:35:33] session, and again, to

[3:35:34] reiterate, COUNCILWOMAN Willis

[3:35:37] when we came out. Um, what was

[3:35:39] discussed in closed session was

[3:35:41] misrepresented. Um, so either

[3:35:42] if if we

[3:35:43] re gonna do something

[3:35:45] in closed session, then it

[3:35:47] needs to stay closed and that

[3:35:48] s

[3:35:48] everyone

[3:35:49] s mouth stays closed.

[3:35:50] Um, if we

[3:35:52] re going to discuss

[3:35:54] the in open session, then we

[3:35:54] re

[3:35:58] completely transparent. So, um,

[3:36:01] You know, I would, I feel. I

[3:36:01] m

[3:36:02] disappointed because I know

[3:36:05] that my stance was completely

[3:36:06] misrepresented the last time.

[3:36:09] Um, because again, I have

[3:36:10] consistently been against the

[3:36:18] Uh, flag. Being, um, Raised in

[3:36:19] uh uh Evans Street since the

[3:36:20] beginning and I

[3:36:21] m completely

[3:36:22] exhausted with this

[3:36:23] conversation right now, um,

[3:36:24] there are probably a few things

[3:36:27] that I care about least, to be

[3:36:28] honest with everyone that

[3:36:29] s

[3:36:30] watching because we got people

[3:36:31] in our community homeless and

[3:36:35] hungry right now. Amen. Right

[3:36:38] and so, uh, in each meeting I

[3:36:39] have repeated that statement.

[3:36:44] That We have more important

[3:36:45] things and uh that was not

[3:36:46] something that that was on the

[3:36:50] top of my list of priorities

[3:36:51] because there are people in the

[3:36:52] community that need to be

[3:36:56] served. So, um. If we are gonna

[3:36:58] do closed session, then it is

[3:37:00] closed session. We

[3:37:01] re not

[3:37:05] trying to use it to politically

[3:37:06] navigate whoever our we

[3:37:08] consider our constituents to be

[3:37:10] that we are, we

[3:37:10] re having this

[3:37:11] conversation and we

[3:37:12] re

[3:37:13] determining as a council how

[3:37:13] we

[3:37:15] re gonna move forward. Um,

[3:37:15] for me, it

[3:37:16] s going to be

[3:37:17] against, it was against the

[3:37:18] first night, it

[3:37:19] s gonna be

[3:37:21] against the last night. And I

[3:37:22] appreciate, oh, I

[3:37:24] m sorry, I

[3:37:25] appreciate transparency, but i

[3:37:26] also know that there

[3:37:27] s value to

[3:37:28] attorney-client privilege, and

[3:37:28] there

[3:37:29] s a reason you do those

[3:37:30] things in closed session. It

[3:37:30] s

[3:37:31] not to conceal things from the

[3:37:31] public. It

[3:37:33] s that you have to

[3:37:34] have a discussion about your

[3:37:35] legal obligations and legal

[3:37:36] consequences. So I would say we

[3:37:38] need to have that initial

[3:37:39] conversation in closed session.

[3:37:40] Of course, whatever action we

[3:37:42] take comes out. In open session

[3:37:44] But if we want to do that close

[3:37:45] session on the 24th. I

[3:37:46] m here

[3:37:48] for it and my question as far

[3:37:49] as asking staff what additional

[3:37:49] information we need, I

[3:37:50] d say

[3:37:50] let

[3:37:52] s do a deep dive. On, um

[3:37:55] You know, uh, well. What are

[3:37:58] the, the possible next steps.

[3:37:59] Um, and how have they, how,

[3:37:59] how

[3:38:01] s that happen and uh how

[3:38:01] s

[3:38:03] that kind of concluded in other

[3:38:04] communities, um, how is North

[3:38:07] Carolina law different? Uh, can

[3:38:10] we recoup legal fees? Um

[3:38:12] precedent, just your basic

[3:38:14] legal information. You know, as,

[3:38:15] as the board

[3:38:15] s counsel, I would

[3:38:17] advise the council to go into

[3:38:17] closed session. There

[3:38:18] s a

[3:38:20] reason for that. It

[3:38:21] s

[3:38:22] confidentiality strategy and um

[3:38:22] we

[3:38:23] ve disposed of this item and

[3:38:25] I exactly that we talk, it

[3:38:25] doesn

[3:38:26] t sound like council has

[3:38:27] the appetite to do that tonight

[3:38:29] and we can do that. A future

[3:38:29] meeting, that

[3:38:30] s what I would

[3:38:33] advise counsel. So moved. For,

[3:38:34] for what? To go into closed

[3:38:35] session. We

[3:38:36] re going to closed

[3:38:37] session right now at a future

[3:38:40] meeting. Can we just add that

[3:38:43] to the agenda and that we need

[3:38:43] to. I don

[3:38:43] t, I don

[3:38:44] t think you

[3:38:44] need a motion to do that, but

[3:38:50] yeah. So. Ok. I just want to

[3:38:53] add to the um. My appreciation

[3:38:53] for city staff, and I do not

[3:38:55] believe this has been a waste

[3:38:57] of time. Um, they worked really

[3:38:57] hard and we didn

[3:38:59] t pass it, but

[3:39:01] a month and a half has gone by.

[3:39:01] It

[3:39:02] s given our community time

[3:39:03] to discuss this and to form

[3:39:05] their own opinions and to share

[3:39:08] those opinions with us. Uh, our

[3:39:10] pnz board are, um, voted this

[3:39:11] down, and we have to, we don

[3:39:11] t

[3:39:12] need to follow their advice,

[3:39:14] but we need to listen to it and,

[3:39:16] and appreciate it and respect

[3:39:17] it, um. And it

[3:39:18] s given us all

[3:39:20] time to, to really consider the

[3:39:20] facts. It

[3:39:21] s also giving camping

[3:39:22] word an opportunity to do the

[3:39:24] right thing, to communicate

[3:39:26] with us in any way, and they

[3:39:27] have not. They paid the 1st 2

[3:39:28] fines, and they haven

[3:39:29] t done

[3:39:31] anything since then. They have

[3:39:32] not communicated one bit with

[3:39:34] us, so a month and a half, uh,

[3:39:35] gave them the opportunity to

[3:39:37] also do the right thing, and

[3:39:38] they did not. So I don

[3:39:38] t think

[3:39:39] this has been a waste of time.

[3:39:39] It

[3:39:41] s not been a waste of city

[3:39:41] staff

[3:39:43] s energy. I just want to

[3:39:44] share my appreciation for all

[3:39:46] of you, um, for the hard work

[3:39:48] you do, um, and for. You know,

[3:39:49] serving this community well so

[3:39:52] thank you very much. See

[3:39:53] manager

[3:39:55] s report. Uh, just to

[3:39:57] reiterate, we do have a meeting

[3:39:59] on the MARCH 24th. We normally

[3:40:01] do not have that 3rd meeting,

[3:40:02] but we will have a workshop

[3:40:04] starting at 4. And then we will

[3:40:05] go straight into the meeting at

[3:40:06] 6 o

[3:40:08] clock. Um Oh, I

[3:40:10] m sorry.

[3:40:11] Can we go back a little bit. I

[3:40:14] know some of the um

[3:40:16] constituents Acts about a

[3:40:18] workshop regarding. Trees and

[3:40:19] things like that. What would

[3:40:22] that? Entail putting that in

[3:40:24] place. I will, I will talk to

[3:40:25] staff, yes every, I mean, some

[3:40:27] of you might know, we have, um,

[3:40:27] we

[3:40:29] ve been working on the udo

[3:40:31] and the tree, uh, tree aspect

[3:40:31] of that has been a vital part

[3:40:34] of that. So I would suspect

[3:40:35] that when we get in, in, in the

[3:40:36] next several months to talk

[3:40:39] about the udo that will be

[3:40:40] brought up, sorry for the

[3:40:44] interruption. All right, there

[3:40:46] you go. Good. Council Mayor

[3:40:52] Foreman. No more comments. All

[3:40:54] right. COUNCILMAN Blackburn. I

[3:40:56] just would like to, to end on a

[3:40:57] positive note on Tuesday, we

[3:40:59] had a, we took a bus, took 2

[3:41:02] buses to look at a possible, uh,

[3:41:06] industrial park. And, um,

[3:41:09] although our consultants, uh, a

[3:41:10] large group of people, probably

[3:41:12] 50 to 75 people that gathered

[3:41:15] for that, including, uh,

[3:41:16] professional engineers and

[3:41:18] consultants and, um, the city

[3:41:20] council met with the, uh,

[3:41:21] county commissioners and just

[3:41:22] what a great opportunity that

[3:41:24] was. And although they were not

[3:41:26] supposed to say so. I

[3:41:28] definitely got the feeling that

[3:41:30] Greenville site was. If not the

[3:41:33] top site. Ok, I got the feeling

[3:41:36] we were really in a good place.

[3:41:37] That our site looks so

[3:41:39] promising for so many reasons,

[3:41:39] and it

[3:41:41] s, um, something that we

[3:41:42] talk about acting with

[3:41:42] transparency. We

[3:41:43] re trying to

[3:41:44] let everyone know what the

[3:41:46] plans are, what it could be,

[3:41:46] how it

[3:41:47] s gonna unfold. We

[3:41:48] re

[3:41:48] trying to involve anybody,

[3:41:50] every, everybody, but really

[3:41:51] this is something that could be

[3:41:52] just a tremendous opportunity

[3:41:54] for our, our community, and I

[3:41:55] just want to thank our city

[3:41:58] staff who I know spent

[3:42:00] countless hours preparing this

[3:42:01] proposal and just what a, what

[3:42:03] a really positive day that was.

[3:42:03] And so thank you. And that

[3:42:04] s it.

[3:42:08] All right. COUNCILMAN Willis.

[3:42:10] Uh, thank you, Mayor. I

[3:42:11] m so

[3:42:11] happy women

[3:42:12] s History Month to

[3:42:14] all of the women who contribute

[3:42:16] to our society and our

[3:42:17] communities every um every day.

[3:42:22] Um, I know we had some employee

[3:42:23] appreciation activities and um

[3:42:24] different things to love on our

[3:42:26] employees with food trucks and

[3:42:28] whatnot this month and last

[3:42:29] week and so, uh, we just

[3:42:31] appreciate all of the work that

[3:42:33] our staff and employees do on a

[3:42:35] daily basis. I also want to

[3:42:36] brag on two initiatives going

[3:42:37] on in the city that are really

[3:42:40] exciting. So the in good

[3:42:41] company Citizens Academy has

[3:42:44] completed 3 sessions so far, so

[3:42:46] excited um that there are about

[3:42:47] 25 participants with that. The

[3:42:48] first session they talked about

[3:42:49] the city manager

[3:42:50] s office, the

[3:42:50] clerk

[3:42:51] s office, and the city

[3:42:52] attorney

[3:42:52] s office. The second

[3:42:53] session they had a chance to

[3:42:55] learn about fire and rescue and

[3:42:56] the police department, and then

[3:42:57] just last night they learned

[3:42:59] all about public works, so it

[3:42:59] s

[3:43:02] been a really cool experience

[3:43:03] and um really exciting program

[3:43:03] that they

[3:43:05] re involved in. And

[3:43:07] then also our small business

[3:43:08] technical assistance program,

[3:43:11] so a little update about that,

[3:43:12] um, that was uh approved by

[3:43:14] council last year. They are

[3:43:15] about halfway done with their

[3:43:16] cohort. This is about a dozen

[3:43:18] small businesses that are

[3:43:19] getting some very needed one on

[3:43:21] one attention that they might

[3:43:23] not have otherwise gotten

[3:43:24] without this initiative through

[3:43:27] the city, um, led by Monday

[3:43:29] Solutions, um, Monday Solutions

[3:43:30] is a consulting group that

[3:43:32] empowers leaders and businesses

[3:43:33] to not feel overwhelmed and

[3:43:36] feel good about Monday again.

[3:43:37] So these businesses um have

[3:43:38] completed their 6th coaching

[3:43:40] sessions, and they

[3:43:41] ve done 21

[3:43:42] on one coaching sessions. Like

[3:43:43] how many small businesses do

[3:43:45] you know get that type of

[3:43:47] attention. Um, money Solutions

[3:43:49] has helped them establish a web

[3:43:50] presence for some businesses

[3:43:51] that didn

[3:43:53] t previously have one.

[3:43:54] And they

[3:43:55] ve assisted in

[3:43:56] establishing financial

[3:43:56] structures for these businesses.

[3:44:00] Record keeping and establishing

[3:44:02] budget practices. So that

[3:44:02] s um

[3:44:03] the great work that

[3:44:03] s being

[3:44:05] done, initiated by the city

[3:44:07] through Money Solutions, um,

[3:44:09] each and every month on an

[3:44:10] ongoing basis and then as

[3:44:11] council member, Blackburn says

[3:44:14] we had a joint county

[3:44:15] commissioners and city council

[3:44:16] meeting, um, this week, and I

[3:44:19] would love to see that happen

[3:44:21] maybe biannually, MR. C Manager,

[3:44:23] so we need more of that. We

[3:44:24] enjoyed that and um there was a

[3:44:25] lot to glean from it, so thank

[3:44:27] you, thank you, Mayor. Council

[3:44:29] member Scully. Thank you, Mayor.

[3:44:33] Uh Happy Women

[3:44:33] s History Month.

[3:44:35] My girl dad, so I take every

[3:44:37] opportunity to lift up women

[3:44:39] and celebrate women. Got 3

[3:44:42] daughters, um, so proud of them.

[3:44:43] Um, and so happy that we live

[3:44:45] in this time where they have

[3:44:46] every opportunity that they

[3:44:48] have to, to pursue their dreams

[3:44:49] and to do great things in their

[3:44:50] lives, and that

[3:44:51] s all been paid

[3:44:53] for by, uh, women who

[3:44:53] ve come

[3:44:55] before us, uh, and done great

[3:44:56] things in this country and

[3:44:57] around the world, uh, to

[3:44:58] improve the lives of women and

[3:44:59] to give them the opportunities

[3:45:01] they have today. So Happy

[3:45:01] Women

[3:45:04] s History Month. And, uh,

[3:45:06] go girls. Um, And another thing

[3:45:08] I got a great opportunity to

[3:45:09] serve uh Meals on Wheels this

[3:45:12] week over at the, um, Pitt

[3:45:13] County Council on Aging. Um,

[3:45:13] it

[3:45:14] s a really wonderful thing

[3:45:17] to do. It was easy, took about

[3:45:19] an hour. It was super well

[3:45:20] organized. They had a hot box

[3:45:22] with some hot food, a cooler

[3:45:23] with milks and a bag of cake

[3:45:25] and bread, uh, and they had a,

[3:45:26] a little tablet that I took

[3:45:27] with me that showed me exactly

[3:45:28] where to go, what order to

[3:45:30] deliver in, so it

[3:45:30] s most

[3:45:31] efficient. It was really fun. I

[3:45:33] got to interact with some of

[3:45:34] our citizens that need visiting,

[3:45:36] need food. Um, and I also

[3:45:37] learned about some really great

[3:45:39] information from the manager of

[3:45:40] the Pitt County Council on

[3:45:43] Aging, um, told me about the

[3:45:44] services that they offer that

[3:45:45] the people that they serve

[3:45:46] their average income is about,

[3:45:50] I think you said $9700 a year,

[3:45:52] a year, um, uh, poverty level,

[3:45:54] I think he said it was 120 to

[3:45:56] $13,000 a year, so well below

[3:45:59] the poverty level. Um, these

[3:45:59] are individuals that can

[3:46:00] t get

[3:46:01] out of their homes, they can

[3:46:01] t

[3:46:03] drive, they MAY be too sick to

[3:46:04] do those things or too old to

[3:46:06] do those things, so they need.

[3:46:07] Not just the nutrition, but

[3:46:09] they need the visit, the smile,

[3:46:10] the hey, how are you doing

[3:46:11] today? Are you ok? Anything

[3:46:13] else I can get for you? Have a

[3:46:14] great day. Uh, I talked to one

[3:46:15] woman who was like nervous

[3:46:16] about going to the grocery

[3:46:17] store. She hadn

[3:46:18] t been in the

[3:46:19] grocery store in 2 years. She

[3:46:19] was thinking about going that

[3:46:22] day. I was like, you can do it,

[3:46:25] go to the grocery store. Um, so

[3:46:27] just as interactions I had with

[3:46:28] them were so pleasant for me,

[3:46:30] and I know that it really

[3:46:32] brightened their day, um, and

[3:46:33] they really need support over

[3:46:34] at the Pitt County Council on

[3:46:36] Aging. Um, they serve about 400

[3:46:38] people a day, and they have

[3:46:39] about 100 people on their

[3:46:40] waiting list. Um, but they

[3:46:41] don

[3:46:43] t just need money, they

[3:46:44] need money and volunteers, uh,

[3:46:45] because they need the, the

[3:46:46] money to pay for the food, the,

[3:46:47] the stuff to deliver the food,

[3:46:49] but they also need people to

[3:46:51] come and help deliver it. Um,

[3:46:53] So please consider making a a

[3:46:54] monetary donation, uh, making a

[3:46:56] contribution of your time and

[3:46:57] energy, uh, get over there and

[3:46:58] help out. Like I said, it took

[3:46:59] an hour. It was really

[3:47:01] wonderful, pleasant thing to do,

[3:47:03] and I hope all, uh, take

[3:47:04] advantage of that opportunity,

[3:47:06] uh, and help out our community

[3:47:07] and really important impactful

[3:47:08] way. So thank you, Mayor. Thank

[3:47:12] you. Council member Robinson. I

[3:47:14] want to echo what counts from

[3:47:14] Black said and COUNCILMAN

[3:47:18] Willis. The mega site is a game

[3:47:18] changer for the north side of

[3:47:20] the river. It, it

[3:47:20] s going to be

[3:47:21] wonderful. It

[3:47:21] s down the road,

[3:47:24] obviously, but. I believe the

[3:47:26] gentleman said it was

[3:47:26] definitely his favorite site

[3:47:29] and I kind of read that as in

[3:47:30] into the mix and it was

[3:47:31] probably the number one site in

[3:47:33] the state. But it

[3:47:33] s a game

[3:47:34] changer for the north side of

[3:47:36] the river all the way out, in

[3:47:36] my opinion, it

[3:47:38] ll ripple out to

[3:47:40] Bethel and beyond and bring

[3:47:41] everything to the north side of

[3:47:43] the river has really been

[3:47:43] looking for because again, if

[3:47:45] we look at the development of

[3:47:47] East, South, North, and west.

[3:47:48] Um, north side river really

[3:47:51] needs some attention. This

[3:47:52] megasitis, I really think the

[3:47:53] grand slam home run that is

[3:47:55] gonna need, so I hope we

[3:47:57] continue to pursue that and,

[3:47:58] and aggressively, it certainly

[3:47:59] will happen in the next couple

[3:48:00] of years in terms of

[3:48:01] development, but looking at it

[3:48:03] down the road and know that we

[3:48:04] were beginning to get the

[3:48:05] genesis of that program, it

[3:48:06] s

[3:48:07] going to truly be a game

[3:48:08] changer and if you don

[3:48:08] t know

[3:48:09] much about it, please get

[3:48:11] involved. As the city and. Let

[3:48:12] them show you the slides and

[3:48:13] the information that talk about

[3:48:14] the mega site and actually

[3:48:15] right out there. It

[3:48:15] s, it

[3:48:15] s,

[3:48:16] it

[3:48:17] s gonna be a showpiece and a,

[3:48:19] and a true game changer. Uh,

[3:48:23] number 2, On JANUARY 24th to

[3:48:24] JANUARY the 26th, the beast of

[3:48:26] the east was scheduled to come

[3:48:28] here and bring in. Uh, 6

[3:48:32] different states. Almost 1800

[3:48:33] players with about 3000 parents.

[3:48:36] Uh, last year when they came,

[3:48:39] they brought in almost $900,000

[3:48:40] into our community over a

[3:48:41] three-day tournament.

[3:48:45] Unfortunately, Had to send back

[3:48:46] $55,000 of the, of the

[3:48:49] tournament money. Because the

[3:48:51] fields were covered by snow.

[3:48:54] Why do I bring that up? My

[3:48:55] favorite topic, as you well

[3:48:57] know, is a sports complex. Had

[3:49:00] we had Artificial fields and a

[3:49:02] sports complex. Not only could

[3:49:03] they have had 110 teams, they

[3:49:04] probably would have had well

[3:49:06] over 200. Those of you watching

[3:49:07] and those out in the audience,

[3:49:08] the beast of the East and the

[3:49:09] soccer tournament that

[3:49:09] s been

[3:49:12] going on for over, I think 20

[3:49:12] years that involves youth from

[3:49:14] all over our county. They have

[3:49:16] built it up to 110 teams, but

[3:49:16] that

[3:49:17] s kind of the limit

[3:49:17] because they can

[3:49:19] t get any more

[3:49:21] fields and so it was hard

[3:49:23] pressed to send back that

[3:49:24] $55,000 but more importantly,

[3:49:25] it was hard pressed not to see

[3:49:28] almost 5000 players and their

[3:49:30] family members, that

[3:49:30] s not

[3:49:31] including other people that

[3:49:33] might come in and watch this

[3:49:33] tournament that were turned

[3:49:34] away because of our weather,

[3:49:36] and I get it, snow turns away a

[3:49:39] lot of people, but have we had

[3:49:40] artificial turf that that would

[3:49:41] have been probably over 200

[3:49:42] teams and probably over a

[3:49:44] million dollars in our economy

[3:49:45] over 3 days. So that

[3:49:45] s why I

[3:49:46] pushed that out there. They

[3:49:48] reached out to me and I said,

[3:49:49] please share the numbers and

[3:49:51] again, came from North Carolina,

[3:49:52] would have come to North

[3:49:52] Carolina, Virginia, South

[3:49:54] Carolina, Georgia, West

[3:49:55] Virginia, and New Jersey that

[3:49:59] far away to come play soccer.

[3:50:00] Next, my mother

[3:50:01] s birthday was

[3:50:03] MARCH 11th. She would have been

[3:50:04] 97 years old, which is a

[3:50:05] historical day. I

[3:50:06] ll always

[3:50:07] remember it, but This is

[3:50:09] something I really want to brag

[3:50:10] about. I know Mayor, you

[3:50:10] re

[3:50:14] gonna like this. On MARCH 11th,

[3:50:16] Parker Bird became the first

[3:50:17] collegiate athlete to get an

[3:50:19] rbi run batted in as an amputee.

[3:50:22] What an amazing compliment,

[3:50:25] that young man. About 2 years

[3:50:26] ago now was, I mean, he was

[3:50:28] highly recruited, one of the

[3:50:29] best in the country in a

[3:50:30] boating accident, lost his leg

[3:50:33] below his knee. A lot of people

[3:50:35] would consider him dumb. Parker

[3:50:35] said, no, I

[3:50:36] m not done. I

[3:50:36] m

[3:50:38] just beginning. And so his goal

[3:50:41] was to get back and play

[3:50:41] collegiate baseball as an

[3:50:44] amputee. He batted once. And

[3:50:46] that was a record. But on MARCH

[3:50:50] 11th, he took the bat. A and as

[3:50:51] a result a run was batted in,

[3:50:53] and he was the first in

[3:50:54] collegiate career. This young

[3:50:56] man has a testament to you can

[3:50:58] still do it no matter what if

[3:50:59] you have enough drive. So

[3:51:00] Parker, if you

[3:51:01] re watching my

[3:51:02] friend, congratulations to you

[3:51:04] and your family. You keep that

[3:51:06] spirit up because he is a, a

[3:51:08] message to many people who have

[3:51:10] disabilities that anything is

[3:51:12] possible if you want it bad

[3:51:13] enough. So again,

[3:51:15] congratulations to Parker.

[3:51:16] Congratulations finally to our

[3:51:17] two employees who retired.

[3:51:19] Thank you for your service. And

[3:51:21] also again, the testament to

[3:51:22] our EMTs for setting yet again

[3:51:23] another life. I don

[3:51:24] t think it

[3:51:26] was about this time last year.

[3:51:28] When the gentleman, uh, we

[3:51:29] recognized over in Wilson who

[3:51:30] saved a life over there if you

[3:51:34] recall. So this again is a

[3:51:35] testament to our EMTs and the

[3:51:37] quality of service they provide,

[3:51:39] because, but for that. Young

[3:51:40] person would not be here

[3:51:40] tonight, so that

[3:51:41] s a testament

[3:51:42] to GOD

[3:51:43] s will and also good

[3:51:44] medical service. So with that

[3:51:46] mayor, I say one more thing, I

[3:51:47] appreciate everybody. Coming

[3:51:49] out and hearing your voices. I

[3:51:51] MAY not always agree with what

[3:51:53] everybody says and how you and

[3:51:54] I know that and I say that

[3:51:56] because, you know, but I, I

[3:51:57] respect their right to come out

[3:51:59] and, and tell us your opinions

[3:51:59] because that

[3:52:00] s what we

[3:52:00] re

[3:52:03] supposed to hear, so please

[3:52:03] don

[3:52:04] t ever think that any of us

[3:52:04] out here don

[3:52:05] t think you should

[3:52:06] come down. I encourage people

[3:52:08] to come down, let your voices

[3:52:10] be heard by us, not only

[3:52:12] presently online and those

[3:52:14] watching on tv, email us, uh,

[3:52:15] because that

[3:52:15] s extremely

[3:52:16] important for us, particularly

[3:52:17] in very difficult situation.

[3:52:19] And so I hope all of you

[3:52:20] understand that, but please

[3:52:21] continue to come out and

[3:52:22] whether we think you think we

[3:52:23] agree with your opinion or not

[3:52:24] or individually agree with you

[3:52:25] or not, please don

[3:52:26] t let that

[3:52:27] discourage you from reaching

[3:52:29] out to us on other topics

[3:52:30] because this is one issue that

[3:52:32] lots of others to come down the

[3:52:34] road to my council members,

[3:52:34] thank y

[3:52:36] all for weighing such a

[3:52:36] heavy issue because this is

[3:52:38] weight heavy on all of us. I

[3:52:40] know in our staff, so I respect

[3:52:42] all of your decisions, even if

[3:52:42] I don

[3:52:43] t necessarily agree with

[3:52:44] him. I respect every one of

[3:52:45] them and know we, we

[3:52:45] ve got to

[3:52:47] move forward and keep moving to

[3:52:50] keep our city. A lot Growing

[3:52:52] Mayor, thank you. I appreciate

[3:52:55] you letting me comment. Ok.

[3:52:55] It

[3:52:55] s almost 10 o

[3:52:57] clock. Oh, you

[3:52:58] wait till it gets to me to say

[3:53:01] that, um. I got a lot to say.

[3:53:01] No, I

[3:53:02] m joking. Happy Woman

[3:53:02] s

[3:53:05] Month. Um, to all the women who

[3:53:07] have paved the way and who

[3:53:10] continue to do so, we will the

[3:53:11] city of Greenville. We

[3:53:11] ve had

[3:53:14] some videos on our website to

[3:53:15] celebrate women with businesses,

[3:53:16] and we

[3:53:18] ll also be having

[3:53:20] empower her, celebrating women

[3:53:25] in business. On MARCH 20th from

[3:53:28] 6 to 9 P.M. At Coastal fog.

[3:53:29] Come out let

[3:53:29] s celebrate the

[3:53:32] women in our lives, the women

[3:53:34] in small businesses and

[3:53:34] businesses that keep Greenville

[3:53:39] growing. And it is also social

[3:53:40] worker appreciation Month, so

[3:53:40] don

[3:53:41] t forget to thank a social

[3:53:43] worker or take her out for

[3:53:44] coffee, whichever one y

[3:53:44] all

[3:53:48] like to do, um, yeah. That

[3:53:51] works very well for me. Um, and

[3:53:54] I would also, I know. I told

[3:53:55] them the other day I stood in

[3:53:57] for you. And I said, you know,

[3:53:58] for the first time I

[3:53:58] m gonna

[3:53:59] say I

[3:54:00] m glad the mayor

[3:54:01] s not

[3:54:03] here because I had an

[3:54:04] opportunity to attend the

[3:54:05] service award ceremony for our

[3:54:07] staff. Thank you all for all

[3:54:10] the hard work that you do every

[3:54:12] single day. Um, it is

[3:54:14] appreciated and it is valued.

[3:54:17] And speaking of which, I know

[3:54:19] we all know that our chief Ted

[3:54:21] Sas is retiring soon. He

[3:54:21] doesn

[3:54:22] t want to go y

[3:54:23] all, but

[3:54:23] he

[3:54:23] s he

[3:54:26] s retiring, um. And I

[3:54:27] want to publicly thank you for

[3:54:29] the work that you have done. We,

[3:54:31] I know we have some

[3:54:32] appreciations coming forth and

[3:54:34] things like that, but I just

[3:54:36] want to publicly thank you for

[3:54:37] all the long hours and

[3:54:39] dedication that you have put

[3:54:41] into being the chief of police.

[3:54:41] You

[3:54:45] re here. Thank you, Mayor.

[3:54:46] I know he don

[3:54:49] t wear a uniform

[3:54:49] no more now I

[3:54:50] ll be quick. All

[3:54:54] I gotta say is I wanna

[3:54:55] congratulate um my daughter

[3:54:55] s

[3:54:57] travel ball team, um, who I

[3:54:57] m

[3:54:58] fortunate enough to, to be one

[3:55:01] of the coaches, um, last year

[3:55:03] at this time, we were we were

[3:55:04] terrible, um, I think the first

[3:55:06] tournament, I think we went 0

[3:55:10] and 3. And, um, this tournament,

[3:55:12] we went 4-0 and we won the gold

[3:55:14] bracket. We brought on the

[3:55:15] championship, so, uh, it

[3:55:15] s

[3:55:17] amazing what one year, uh,

[3:55:17] we

[3:55:18] ll do for a team, but I will

[3:55:19] say that I think it

[3:55:21] s. The, the

[3:55:23] whole idea and the concept of.

[3:55:25] How important it is to invest

[3:55:27] time and energy into young

[3:55:28] children and to get them to

[3:55:29] grow, um, in multiple different

[3:55:30] ways. It doesn

[3:55:30] t have to be

[3:55:31] through sports, it could be

[3:55:32] through education, it could be

[3:55:34] through anything, teaching them

[3:55:35] something to get them to grow,

[3:55:36] but it

[3:55:37] s incredibly gratifying

[3:55:39] as a an adult to be able to see

[3:55:40] those girls go out there and

[3:55:41] compete at a high level, and so

[3:55:43] I want to say congratulates,

[3:55:45] congratulations to them on

[3:55:46] their hard work. We

[3:55:46] ve got many

[3:55:48] tournaments, but I

[3:55:48] ll piggyback

[3:55:50] off of what council member

[3:55:52] Robinson said, I spent a lot of

[3:55:53] money up in Nashville, North

[3:55:55] Carolina. This last weekend, my

[3:55:56] wife wanted to go out and spend

[3:55:57] some money and when we went

[3:56:01] shopping. She finds a boutique

[3:56:02] anywhere in this world and we

[3:56:03] spent a bunch of money at the

[3:56:06] boutique. We spent money at

[3:56:08] restaurants and it was not in

[3:56:09] Greenville or Pitt County, and

[3:56:10] I think that it

[3:56:11] s important for

[3:56:13] us to understand how much

[3:56:14] commerce takes place, my next

[3:56:15] tournament, I think is in

[3:56:15] Kinston. I think we

[3:56:16] ve got one

[3:56:16] in Redo. We

[3:56:17] ve got one in Rocky

[3:56:19] Mount. But not here in

[3:56:21] Greenville, right? And I think

[3:56:22] that, uh, if you had a chance

[3:56:24] to ask all the different teams

[3:56:27] that were around, uh, that we

[3:56:28] play against if they want to go

[3:56:30] to Red Oak, no offense, Red Oak,

[3:56:31] um, or Greenville, I think they

[3:56:32] pick Greenville every single

[3:56:34] time, so, um, I think it

[3:56:34] s

[3:56:35] important for us to understand

[3:56:36] that there

[3:56:36] s a tremendous

[3:56:37] amount of commerce that goes

[3:56:40] along with that, so. With that,

[3:56:43] I need a motion to adjourn. Our

[3:56:44] motion by Council member

[3:56:45] Robinson, seconded by

[3:56:47] Councillor Blackburn. All those

City Council

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