[0:02] All right, Commissioner, you ready to go? Yes. All right. All right. If we will, please come to order. Welcome every

[0:11] button to the Board of County Commissioner, Special Business Meeting. It is Monday, August 31st,

[0:16] 2026. The special business meeting is a continuation from our August 28th, 2026, special meeting.

[0:24] At this time, if everyone will please stand and join me in the pledge of allegiance.

[0:28] I

[0:32] pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands

[0:40] one nation under Gender God, individual with liberty and justice for all.

[0:49] All right, turning to the county attorney for certification of the agenda.

[0:54] Yes, so the county attorney is also reviewed the item on the agenda.

[0:56] And you have a appropriate jurisdiction of its matter.

[0:58] All right. Thank you, Councillor Comissioners. Any disclosure,

[1:01] Mr. Stridems on the agenda today.

[1:04] No, sir.

[1:05] I have none, Mr. Chair.

[1:06] Thank you.

[1:06] All right.

[1:07] I have none, either.

[1:08] Thank you, gentlemen.

[1:09] Let's get into our regular agenda.

[1:11] We, too, have a resolution referring a ballot measure to preserve all Douglas County voters

[1:17] rights to elect all members of the Douglas County Board of County Commissioners on the ballot

[1:22] for voter consideration.

[1:24] Jeff Garcia, Douglas County Attorney, presenting for staff.

[1:29] Thank you, sir.

[1:30] So, I was given the direction to protect voter rights and permit county-wide elections.

[1:36] So to do that, the county is allowed to refer ballot measures, specifically ballot measures,

[1:43] or in this case ballot measures regarding the composition and number of county commissioners.

[1:52] The three to five valid uses the Adams County language, but in doing so, they left off the county white election portion of it.

[2:03] Call out our law permits voters.

[2:05] The opportunity to decide the composition of the Board of County Commissioners on three bases.

[2:09] That's the number of commissioners either three or five.

[2:11] If there are five by five district or three by district into it large,

[2:16] And then if those district commissioners are elected by district or by countywide.

[2:23] So the language on the left is the ballot language on the initiated ballot measure.

[2:28] And then the language on the right is the language from the Adams County initiated ballot measure.

[2:35] You'll notice that that third option has been left off on the Douglas County.

[2:40] So the language proposed is in the event that the size of the Douglas County Board of County commissioners

[2:45] is increased from three to five members.

[2:48] Shell, all the county registered voters continue to be permitted to vote and elect all members

[2:54] of the Douglas County Board of County Commissioners.

[2:57] There are benefits to this, other than just throwing on a third option.

[3:01] It allows the initiated measure to still decide the number and the number of commissioners

[3:08] and the office type, whether it's the five district or three district and two at large.

[3:12] It also returns that option and gives the Douglas County voters the full breadth of options that have been afforded by the statute.

[3:21] Now, I will say that the language on this is something that we could address.

[3:26] I've worked somewhat quickly on this.

[3:29] If there is any kind of wordsmithing or things that the board would like to change, I'd be happy to do that,

[3:34] but this is the language.

[3:38] All right. Thank you, Councillor.

[3:40] Questions for the county attorney?

[3:45] For me, Mr. Chair, it seems pretty straightforward.

[3:49] Thank you, Commissioner.

[3:51] Not at this time.

[3:53] My question for the County Attorney is, so we can see demonstrated that Adams County had the three legal options for expansion to five commissioners on as part of their ballot measure.

[4:07] That was not included by the three to five petitioners.

[4:14] My question is which one did Adams County voters choose to pursue?

[4:19] I believe that. I believe that. I believe that.

[4:22] Adams County voters did select the third option that five commissioners at larger.

[4:26] Okay, so they did actually choose the five out large commissioners.

[4:29] Got it. All right.

[4:31] I think those are my questions for the county attorney.

[4:34] Board, any another opportunity to ask any questions of the county attorney?

[4:43] perhaps later, Mr. Attorney, one is noodling around my mind, but we can hear from the public first and then I can ask legal questions.

[4:53] Okay, cool, cool. In that case, let's go to public comment. I do have people scheduled to speak on public comment.

[5:00] First person up, Deling Grondo,

[5:07] Delah in Grondo,

[5:14] come on up, Delah, Delah, Delah, you are no stranger to members of the board, but please do give us your name, until it's where you're from, ma'am.

[5:24] Good morning, thank you all for all the work you all do. When you all just wanted to say, I'm Deling Grondo and I live here in Casa Rock and the

[5:39] Board of County Commission did change.

[5:41] And they didn't follow everything they caused 13s and died of their eyes, everything is perfect.

[5:49] They went to a lawyer and everything is done.

[5:51] So it is a done deal.

[5:53] Do a can I ask you to please?

[5:57] Do a can I ask you to please address the board?

[5:59] The big but is why do they wait so long to do this when the other group works so hard?

[6:10] to put it on the ballot and on the other ballots through the years, I'm going back through years,

[6:20] they never had the cost effect put in, but I will say it is enlightening and I did appreciate that.

[6:30] So, that's about it,

[6:38] I am four or five commissioners, I will vote for five commissioners and we need five commissioners on the board.

[6:46] That's it. Thank you.

[6:48] All right. Thank you very much, man. We appreciate your comments.

[6:51] Erin Yao,

[6:58] if you keep please give us your name. Tell us where you're from.

[7:01] Yep, so my name's Erin Yao, from this county, Littleton, specifically in Sterling Ranch.

[7:10] So I'm against adding an option for five at large, and the reason being that it would kind of negate

[7:18] the reason that I supported adding this measure to the ballot. I was hoping to see better representation

[7:25] of smaller communities within Douglas County on the board of commissioners and for those

[7:30] folks who are elected to be more accountable to residents.

[7:34] So I've been to a few of these meetings before and a recurring theme that I've seen is that

[7:43] I've seen that I've seen is that there's despite mass showings of

[7:50] Kenyan and one certain direction the commissioners have often voted in the other direction

[7:57] and you know thinking about who supports things first who doesn't

[8:02] you see people from a specific community all speaking in one direction

[8:06] whereas people outside of that community community is speaking in the other direction

[8:12] so I would just really hope with having the sound of the ballot that we would get

[8:18] better representation by districts

[8:22] And yeah, that's what I wanted to say.

[8:25] So I'm going to add an option and that's because it would

[8:30] just credit why I signed the ballot initiative

[8:33] to begin with.

[8:35] Thanks.

[8:35] Okay, thank you, ma'am.

[8:36] Appreciate your comments.

[8:42] Next up, I have Bill Jack.

[8:52] And Bill, please give us your name again.

[8:55] And until three from.

[8:57] Good morning, commissioners.

[8:58] My name is Bill Jack.

[8:59] I'm a resident of Castle Rock.

[9:00] I want to thank the commissioners for providing clear and understandable language on the ballot.

[9:06] Vultures deserve to know exactly what they're being asked to decide.

[9:10] And clear ballot language supports and informed and transparent election process.

[9:15] I'm here to express my opposition to adding commissioners to the board.

[9:19] Concerns about how government operates are never solved by simply adding more government.

[9:24] In considering support or opposition to this initiative,

[9:29] voters should ask themselves three questions.

[9:31] One, what jurisdictional issue facing Douglas County residents

[9:35] has this board fail to address.

[9:39] And two, how will this jurisdictional issue be solved

[9:42] simply by adding two more commissioners?

[9:45] And then finally, if adding commissioner solves problems

[9:48] and why stop it, too?

[9:50] Let's expand it to seven, nine.

[9:52] This initiative mirrors the attempt to stack the U.S. Supreme Court simply because those in...

[10:00] Opposition do not like the court's decisions. It is disingenuous and deceptive on the part of those

[10:06] who have put forward this initiative in the name of accountability and transparency, now to

[10:11] oppose the board's transparent language entitled, which will certainly give voters necessary

[10:16] information so we can make and inform decision. It should make voters suspicious of the

[10:29] with clear, accurate, and impartial ballot language.

[10:34] And I thank you for that.

[10:36] All right, thank you, sir.

[10:37] We appreciate your comments.

[10:40] Mark Custer,

[10:47] Mark gives you a name again,

[10:48] and tells where your from, sir.

[10:50] Yes, I'm Mark Custer from Highlands Ranch.

[10:52] Law, lifelong conservative, registered Republican

[10:55] in 2026, Delicate to Douglas County, and State Assembly.

[11:01] I'm here to save yourself.

[11:02] It's here to save you from yourselves.

[11:06] Don't add the five at large option.

[11:09] It will just confuse things and anger the electorate against you.

[11:13] You must remember, the largest voting block is unafiliated.

[11:18] They are 53% of the registered voters in Douglas County.

[11:22] The unafiliated in the last primary broke two to one

[11:27] with the evil Democratic Party in the primary.

[11:30] So, if every but one votes along party lines, the five at large loses by 52% to 48.

[11:42] 16% of the evil Democrats and 36% of the unaffiliated going with them and then and other

[11:50] versus the 30% Republicans and 18% of the unaffiliated and other.

[11:56] The question to five commissioners, most likely passed by a minimum of 52 percent, again,

[12:04] 16 percent of the evil Democrats and 36 percent unaffiliated.

[12:10] Your best outcome is the three districts and two at large.

[12:15] I think it can win because of the fiscal conservative of the unaffiliates will vote for it.

[12:22] It will be closed and if they vote like the primary five districts, five by district will probably win 52 to 48.

[12:33] Next point is since you need to create a county gray book because you'll have at least two ballot measures.

[12:45] The three to five question in the school board tax level.

[12:51] It's summary, do not put the five at large.

[12:54] It will anger the unaffiliated.

[12:57] The evil Democrats are organized.

[13:00] And I'm sorry that it's unfortunate that the DCGOP is in disarray.

[13:05] Sir, if you could please wrap up your question.

[13:08] I'm trying to turn Doug O. Blue with your shenanigans.

[13:14] and read Michael Brown's sub-stack article and listen to KMC.

[13:20] Sir, if I could please ask you that.

[13:22] I would like to wrap up your comments.

[13:25] Thank you so much.

[13:27] I appreciate your comments, sir.

[13:29] Sue Pro.

[13:33] Hey, y'all, right.

[13:34] Me, I'm come on up and correct my pronunciation.

[13:39] Good morning.

[13:40] My name is Sue Pancioco, I live in Parker, and I am in April, Democrat.

[13:50] I'm here to speak directly to the Board's actions regarding the three to five commission

[13:54] initiative.

[13:56] Specifically, this proposal on the agenda to introduce an all-it-large option, more than

[14:02] 20,000 residents sign the original petition in good faith based on clear language aimed

[14:08] providing better localized district representation for a county of nearly 400,000 people.

[14:16] I myself are one of those people that sign that.

[14:19] Introducing this last minute alternative to elect five commissioners entirely at large,

[14:25] completely muddies the water.

[14:27] It directly dilutes the localized representation that the community explicitly petitioned for.

[14:33] For this board to use it's power to alter the framework and introduce competing measures

[14:38] That directly protects their own seats is a blatant conflict of interest

[14:43] It's exactly like a child on a playground who brings the ball and then continuously changes the rules

[14:49] Just so they would just to ensure that they win

[14:52] I urge this board to respect the true intent of the 20,000 residents who sign this petition

[14:58] Stop altering the battle

[15:00] Let's start using public safety as a political shield and let the voters decide on the clean measure that they actually signed up for. Thank you.

[15:10] All right. Thank you, ma

[15:13] 'am. Appreciate your comments.

[15:17] Paul Ackerman, please.

[15:22] Sir, if you could please give us your name and tell us where you're from.

[15:26] Good morning, commissioners. On Paul Ackerman, I live in Parker and I'm here to speak against the addition of this new ballot measure.

[15:34] I feel the title of it is deliberately

[15:41] obfuscating the true intent that says nothing to do with voters' rights.

[15:45] You may have the legal authority to add an additional measure,

[15:50] but to frame it as voter rights, clearly obfuscates the intent

[15:56] that the original three to five ballot measures, as was mentioned,

[16:00] signed by over 20,000, more than 5% of the residents of the county.

[16:08] In addition, the addition of the additional language that was proposed at the last meeting

[16:15] speaks to that same desire to cloud the issue and confuse voters rather than presenting

[16:21] the straightforward intention that's obvious in the original ballot measure.

[16:26] Thank you.

[16:28] All right.

[16:28] Thank you, sir.

[16:29] Folks, please hold applause.

[16:31] This isn't a Trump rally.

[16:33] Let's go ahead and conduct ourselves.

[16:36] See, they thought it was funny, Kevin.

[16:39] I thought it was funny too, but thank you all.

[16:41] But let's hold off.

[16:43] I appreciate you, thought my joke was funny.

[16:45] That's great.

[16:45] But let's hold off on applause.

[16:48] And let's say, I will say, at the stage of the game.

[16:51] Let's everybody show some respect to your neighbors

[16:54] who may be here and who may be listening.

[16:56] Moving along, Julie Ort, please.

[17:10] And Julie, you are no stranger to the board, but please come on forward.

[17:14] Give us your name.

[17:15] Tell us where you're from, ma'am.

[17:28] Thank you.

[17:28] My name is Julie Ort, and I'm live in Highlands Ranch.

[17:32] I highly value serving as an election judge.

[17:35] Every year I'm partnered with someone who I think will have absolutely nothing in common with ideologically.

[17:42] Only to find that we share one of the most important values.

[17:45] and unwavering commitment to ensuring free and fair elections that honor and respect every single of voters intent.

[17:53] This resolution is a blatant attempt to so confusion and disarray into an election.

[17:58] By attorney Garcia's own legal citations last week, the ballot title shall not conflict with those titles selected for any other measure in the same election.

[18:09] And yet now you interject this Hail Mary on 3rd option.

[18:13] Did you have 20,000 registered voters ask you to do it?

[18:17] Did you even have 20?

[18:19] The 3 to 5 petition effort was in the news for months, and yet this urgent revelation

[18:24] came to all three of you one week before the ballot deadline.

[18:29] Douglas County voters aren't stupid.

[18:31] We may be ideologically diverse and outspoken.

[18:34] Our debates may be often be heated.

[18:36] But we are united and unified when it comes to an intolerance for corrupt manipulation or any attempt to suppress our votes or voting power.

[18:46] And right now some of your loudest most fervent critiques on radio and imprint are coming from thoughtful conservative voices.

[18:53] Because 3-5 never was some, quote, Denver Liberal Activist Moonshot, it has always been a thoughtful, nonpartisan plea for greater transparency, accountability, insight and governance.

[19:07] voters are smart enough to see your unnecessary and unmandated meddling for the desperate

[19:14] power grab that it is and ultimately it will backfire. Please show some respect and

[19:20] restraint and discard this needless resolution.

[19:26] All right, thank you, ma'am. Appreciate your comments.

[19:34] Laura Thomas.

[19:43] Ma'am, you're no stranger

[19:44] to the board, but if you can please give us your name, tell us where you're from.

[19:47] Good morning, commissioners. My name is Laura Thomas. I live in Highlands Ranch. I just have a simple question. I'd appreciate it if this board could provide the statute number that requires the commissioners to add.

[20:00] Fiscal impact to this ballot question. Thank you for your time.

[20:04] Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate your comments. We'll try to answer that question after public comment.

[20:14] Thank you, Commissioner. Good point. Kim, turn, Aegee, turn it.

[20:22] You, ma'am, I invite you to please correct the

[20:24] pronunciation of your name and tell us where you're from.

[20:27] Yes, I corrected that pronunciation on Friday when I was here for two and a half hours.

[20:31] Thank you.

[20:33] Call about a lot of establishes that counties may expand to five commissioners.

[20:37] It is not allow a larger number than five as one commenter suggested.

[20:41] That same statute allows a petition to move the commission to five members to include two of the three

[20:47] possible options that Mr. Garcia noted at the beginning of his presentation.

[20:50] two options have been included in the citizen-led initiative that was signed by over 20,000

[20:57] Douglas County residents.

[20:59] The ballot language presented today for the Commissioner of ballot question is misleading.

[21:04] Your own outward facing communications all include the phrase entirely at large.

[21:09] That is an email on your website and in your social posts and in some of those communications

[21:15] that phrase entirely at large is included more than one time.

[21:20] That wording, however, is not included in your proposed ballot language.

[21:25] I was here for two and a half hours on Friday as this board doubled the number of words

[21:29] in the Citizen Let initiative.

[21:31] I hope we will see you apply equal diligence as you consider whether the ballot language

[21:36] you propose communicates clearly and accurately and transparently as you so deliberated on

[21:43] Friday.

[21:44] If you must include an option to the citizen-led petition, and I would request that you

[21:50] not, as many other commenters have, that you instead discard this motion today.

[21:56] But if you must, I would ask that you add the clear language you used in all your outward-facing

[22:02] communication, because this is, in fact, an initiative to elect the board entirely at large.

[22:11] Thank you.

[22:13] Thank you, ma'am.

[22:14] Appreciate your comments.

[22:16] Rachel Lesser, please.

[22:26] Ma'am, please give us your name and tell us where you're from.

[22:32] Good morning.

[22:32] I'm Rachel Lesser and I'm from Sterling Ranch.

[22:35] I'm here today because I have deep concerns about the commissioner-led,

[22:39] created ballot initiative that will be voted on today.

[22:43] The initiative, as written, is misleading.

[22:46] It does not clearly state that this is a third option,

[22:49] competing with the Citizen Lead Initiative.

[22:53] It does not state that this option would create five at large commissioners using those words specifically.

[23:00] Instead, it implies voters are simply being asked whether they want to keep the right to vote for all commissioners.

[23:08] Today's vote is, again, a conflict of interest.

[23:11] You are piggybacking onto a citizen-led valid initiative without their partnership on an issue that directly determines your own offices.

[23:23] This is not neutral rule-making.

[23:26] It's self-interested manipulation of the process.

[23:30] And finally, you have not explained how competing outcomes will be reconciled because your valid initiative has confusing wording.

[23:38] It is likely that in their confusion, voters will select a district-based-based option as offered in the citizen-led initiative, as well as your initiative.

[23:48] If this happens, the numbers will not match and there will be no clear winner for any option.

[23:55] Please tell us publicly and before the vote, how that would be resolved after the election once all votes are in.

[24:02] For these reasons, the commissioner led initiative creates confusion and functions as a clear effort to undermine a nonpartisan citizen led initiative.

[24:14] I urge you to not place this on the ballot and to recuse yourselves from any further decisions on this issue since it directly affects your own offices.

[24:24] Thank you very much.

[24:26] Thank you, ma'am. We appreciate your comments.

[24:31] Mary Wilson, please.

[24:37] Mary, you're not a stranger to the board.

[24:38] Please give this your name.

[24:39] Tell us where you're from.

[24:41] Mary Wilson, Castorot, Colorado.

[24:45] I also want to just kind of mention,

[24:46] I do tend to go to Larksperr and Frank Town

[24:50] in those areas as well,

[24:51] that we don't seem to have a lot of representative here,

[24:55] which before I start my discussion,

[24:57] I just want to remind people,

[24:58] we are not Adams County.

[24:59] we're...

[25:00] Our Douglas County.

[25:03] So what the initiative that you're suggesting does does in fact rob those smaller towns of their voice to pick their own representative. District 2 should be allowed to vote for their representative, not district 3, not district 1, district 2 should be allowed to vote for their representative.

[25:24] Franktown should be allowed to vote for their representative and not have Highlands Ranch put their

[25:29] thumb on the scales. What you're suggesting here is to rob them of their voter rights.

[25:36] Thank you. All right. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate your comments, Mary.

[25:47] Chest and Harris, please.

[25:50] May I please be give us your name, correct my pronunciation and tell us where you're from?

[25:57] I live in Castle Pines, I lived in Douglass County for 23 years.

[26:02] Setting aside any possible legal issues of your addition to the measure, there are obvious

[26:10] ethical and more considerations with hampering with this measure.

[26:13] What stopped you and stops you from collaborating with citizens on these things?

[26:21] This addition confuses the original ballot measure.

[26:27] What are you afraid of by not collaborating with the citizens?

[26:30] And furthermore, what are you afraid of by not refusing yourself from something that directly affects your office and your employment?

[26:38] If you're going to persist in the shenanigans,

[26:41] Please remove the conflational language about the preserving of voters' rights.

[26:47] That was never in a question.

[26:50] Thank you.

[26:51] All right.

[26:52] Thank you, ma'am.

[26:52] Appreciate your comments.

[26:57] Angela Thomas, please.

[27:06] Angela, please, do you give us your name?

[27:08] Tell us where you're from.

[27:09] Angela Thomas.

[27:10] I live here in Casarac.

[27:11] And I was the author of the original petition.

[27:15] I want to address the claim we continue to hear regarding the options that must

[27:19] you're on the ballot. Colorado law allows two of the three statutory options to be placed

[27:26] before voters. It does not require all three. While we did use the Adams County language,

[27:33] we chose not to include the third measure or third option. The reason we did that was because it was

[27:40] a citizen led initiative, not a commissioner ballot measure.

[27:47] The Adams County Commissioners placed that measure on the ballot in 2011 was referred by

[27:55] them, not the citizens.

[27:57] The citizens have a voice here.

[28:00] This originated with the people of Douglas County, not Adams County, we simply use their

[28:05] template.

[28:06] More than 23,000 citizens signed petitions asking for a specific question to be placed before the voters.

[28:16] More than 20,000 of those signatures were verified.

[28:18] Those voters were not petitioning for the Adam's County model.

[28:21] They were petitioning for our measure using the options permitted under Colorado law.

[28:27] 30, 10, 30, 6, 5.

[28:30] This statute gives voters a choice.

[28:34] The existence of a third legally permissible option does not mean it must be inserted into a citizen-led petition, simply because another county chose to include it.

[28:45] And this is where the issue becomes larger than three commissioners versus five.

[28:50] This is about whether citizens can use the initiative process provided to them by Colorado Law and have the question they petitioned for fairly presented to voters.

[28:59] The Board should not substitute its policy preferences for the choice made by petitioners.

[29:04] We follow the law.

[29:05] We gather the signatures.

[29:07] We qualify for the ballot.

[29:09] Now let Douglas County voters decide the question we put before them.

[29:12] This is what the initiative processes for.

[29:15] Thank you, gentlemen.

[29:17] Thank you, ma'am.

[29:22] Let's hold applause, folks.

[29:26] Thank you, Angela.

[29:27] Appreciate your comments.

[29:28] Kim Carroll, please.

[29:31] I don't know.

[29:32] I don't know.

[29:33] I don't know.

[29:37] Man, please give us your name, tell us where you're from.

[29:39] Hi, my name is Kim Carroll, and I have lived in Parker for 20 years now.

[29:45] Every time I sat down to write my comments, my brain was all over, so I'm winging it at this point.

[29:52] First of all, I agree with everyone.

[29:55] This does not need to go on the ballot. It is confusing, and this weekend I did...

[30:00] It's something I never do for my mental health. I went on next door, and it is a cesspool. But all this

[30:08] did, it confused everyone. There were 50 some odd comments, and some of them were like, wait a

[30:15] minute, the measure is going to take away my right to vote. I'm a register voter, then that, no,

[30:21] it doesn't do that. It does this. No, I know what new what this was doing. The other one, I don't

[30:28] the language but we'll campaign against it. That's a campaign issue at this point because you're not

[30:33] changing it. This you can change. Just because you can put something on the ballot doesn't mean you have to and it

[30:43] doesn't mean you should. Once again, 20,000 people signed that petition. Many of us in this audience stood

[30:52] outside in the blistering heat and casserole, in Parker, in Franktown, in Highlands Ranch, in

[31:00] Sterling Ranch, we had cops called on us. We had people's scream at us. I had many people

[31:07] call me a woke Democrat. Yeah, I'm woke. But we talked to people. If we got 23,000 signatures,

[31:16] you can bet we probably talked to 30,000 people. Some signed something and they understood that

[31:23] they had the option to vote? No, if they wanted to. But they understood the two valid options.

[31:32] So I would urge you, leave this off the ballot. It doesn't make any sense and you're putting your

[31:39] on the scales. Thank you.

[31:43] All right. Thank you, ma'am. We appreciate your comments.

[32:01] Jacob's in please.

[32:08] Sir, please give us your name. Tell us where you're from.

[32:10] Jacob's in Casa Rock, Colorado. Good morning, gentlemen.

[32:14] I'm going to be brief.

[32:16] I oppose this.

[32:18] And as a modest student of the founding fathers and tensions,

[32:22] I think five is better than three.

[32:24] One other reason, and I will continue to be brief, is you're accounting on what this will

[32:29] cost.

[32:30] Thank you.

[32:31] All right.

[32:31] Thank you, sir.

[32:32] Appreciate your comments.

[32:36] Bob Marshall, please.

[32:38] And representative, please do give us your name.

[32:41] Tell us where you're from.

[32:43] Bob Marshall, Highland Ranch, have to throw out comments again because of the stuff going on.

[32:47] This measure is very deceptive because of Adam's County never gave the option for five by

[32:52] district.

[32:53] Those are two at large options.

[32:55] And the reason I was able to get it through the House this time by a wide margin and over to the Senate to change it was because the Adams County reps became outraged when they found out the Adams County commissioners were being deceptive with them and said we gave that option they did not that five by this people went to the closest one five by district you have someone on the board of the commissioners calling people saying they're extreme left socialist trying to put this through.

[33:20] Boulder County is putting the exact same measure on it for four years. I've been fighting this

[33:24] and people are hearing and getting traction. Am I an extreme left socialist?

[33:31] The Republican parties own Liberty Scorecard ranks me as the most conservative

[33:35] Democrat in the capital and the most independent legislator. I have awards from many organizations.

[33:41] The forward party and legal women voters for good governance. This is good governance work

[33:47] and you're spitting in the face of the 70% of the petitioners who signed it, who are unafiliated

[33:52] and Republicans, at large voting has a notorious history. It's always used to keep down political

[33:58] minorities for those in power. Half the states elected their congressional delegations at

[34:02] large when the United States first started. So jacked up in 1842 Congress came down and outlawed

[34:08] it. That's why we have the districts we have today. After the Civil War it became notorious

[34:13] to use it to keep them racial political minorities. So throughout the South, all the city councils,

[34:19] all the board county commissioners, all the school boards would be elected at large to prevent

[34:23] any representation from any minority group. And people understand this. El Paso County went to

[34:29] five commissioners. They were three at large and they actually had one Democrat, but they went to

[34:33] five by district and the Democratic district came. So you're going to be sitting here saying,

[34:38] At large now, at large tomorrow and at large forever.

[34:42] That is your legacy.

[34:44] Thank you.

[34:45] All right, thank you, Representative.

[34:47] We appreciate your comments.

[34:49] Let's hold the applause, folks.

[34:52] Gay and Smith, please.

[34:53] It's really good.

[34:54] I'm putting money.

[34:55] I'm putting the money.

[34:56] It's a pleasure of legislatures.

[34:58] Or not.

[35:03] Mr. Smith, please give us your name. Tell us where you're from.

[35:06] Name is Dan Smith, I'm from Highlands Ranch, and to use the language of a former speaker here.

[35:13] I would like to consider myself a virtuous and fiscally conservative Democrat, rather than an evil Democrat.

[35:21] I'm going to speak on a different topic than what a lot of other people have been saying here.

[35:26] that topic comes back to likely costs to the county. Colorado statutes that discuss changing

[35:37] the title of a document, Colorado regulatory statutes 31-11-1111, says that commissioners may

[35:46] change the title, but they put a limit on that. They say that it must correctly and fairly express

[35:54] the true intent and meaning of the original petition.

[36:00] Mr. Smith, you're, you're, you're straying from the topic at hand, kind of getting into

[36:04] the topics we had on Friday.

[36:05] Can I ask you to return to the topic?

[36:07] Yes.

[36:08] This topic, the addition of option three, not only is not sanctioned by law and no one in the

[36:13] language.

[36:14] Does it say that county commissioners can materially deviate from what was signed to

[36:19] exposes the county to lawsuits, lawsuits that we are likely to lose because they're

[36:24] is no precedent in state law that gives commissioners this kind of latitude to dramatically alter the intent and meaning of what more than 20,000 petitioners proposed for the sake of Douglas County taxpayers, as well as for the sake of the 20,000 voters who signed the petition without option three, I encourage you, please do not include option three on this.

[36:52] Thank you. Thank you, sir. We appreciate your comments.

[36:57] Stacey Rogers. Stacey, you're no stranger to certain members of the board, but please do give us

[37:03] your name. Tell us where you're from. My name is Stacey Rogers. I live in Castle Rock. I'm no stranger

[37:08] to members of the board. Specifically George, member of the board, Abe.

[37:15] Please be sure to, please be

[37:17] to address the board, please.

[37:19] I was.

[37:20] George?

[37:22] Why, Abe is not here.

[37:23] So I don't, I didn't can't address him.

[37:26] But to remind you, I initiated the elected mayor

[37:32] petition and brought you, George, member of the county

[37:36] board, Mary, on board, Randy Reed, former mayor,

[37:41] and Wayne Harlus.

[37:43] We wanted proper, we wanted different representation regarding our mayor, instead of the board, the commissioner, should I can't remember it's been so long since I'd been able to count meeting.

[37:58] I lose my mind if I keep doing that representation, six districts, and an elected mayor at large.

[38:05] not everybody, not all the districts, or all the membership of what it is a seven at large.

[38:13] But that's what you're doing here. When we did the elected mayor effort, we did it to keep

[38:20] the representation in the different districts and that the voters choose the mayor.

[38:30] Do you remember?

[38:32] Okay. I just wanted to make sure you remember. Thank you.

[38:37] Thank you, ma'am, appreciate your comments.

[38:42] George Jackson, please.

[38:49] Good morning, commissioners.

[38:50] My name is George Jackson.

[38:52] I live here in Castle Rock.

[38:54] I just simply want to repeat what we've already heard here from a number of people.

[38:59] This option three does not belong on the ballot.

[39:02] It should be taken down.

[39:04] It is going to do nothing but cause more confusion and it's running contrary to what the voters have asked for.

[39:11] So I would just ask that you just remove it, keep it simple.

[39:16] Thank you.

[39:16] All right, thank you, sir.

[39:17] Appreciate your comments.

[39:19] That concludes those who I have signed up for public comments.

[39:25] Is there anyone else who would like to give public comment at this time?

[39:28] Ma'am, a front here, please.

[39:30] Please come forward.

[39:31] Give us your name.

[39:32] Tell us where you're from.

[39:34] Good morning.

[39:35] My name is Carol and upden, and I am from Castle Rock.

[39:40] In reading the proposed language,

[39:44] Shell, all Douglas County resident registered voters

[39:49] continue to be permitted to vote,

[39:52] and elect all members of the DCBOC that appears

[39:57] designed to mislead.

[40:00] We need voters into believing that they must vote yes to preserve their right to participate in free and fair elections.

[40:10] It frames the voting question as the voter rights are at risk. It discourages voters from considering alternate forms of representation.

[40:22] It's not clear and neutral wording.

[40:26] That's the opposite of the clarity that we voters deserve.

[40:31] Free and fair elections depend on honest,

[40:35] understandable ballot language,

[40:37] not wording that creates fear or confusion.

[40:43] I moved here four years ago from Michigan.

[40:47] From large county,

[40:49] We had 19 commissioners. Each represented approximately 63,000 people and they were elected by district.

[40:59] That structure gave each commissioner a clear responsibility to represent the voters and their district and those interests of the people.

[41:11] Douglas County is long overdue for a representative structure that better reflects its population and gives residents more

[41:20] direct accountability from their elected officials.

[41:25] The parents is that you, the current board, are opposed to expanding the board from 3-5

[41:31] elected by district.

[41:34] The question voters should ask is why voters should consider where, whether this is a problem,

[41:42] or exactly the kind of accountability representative government is supposed to provide?

[41:48] Okay.

[41:49] Madam, if you could please wrap up your comments, well thank you very much.

[41:53] We appreciate your comments, ma'am.

[41:55] I think I had other folks who would like to give a public comment.

[42:00] Ma'am, please come forward.

[42:01] Give us your name.

[42:02] Tell us where you're from.

[42:03] I see you in the back.

[42:05] Okay.

[42:06] Hi.

[42:06] I'm Bridget McKiewin.

[42:08] I reside in the Highlands Ranch.

[42:10] I'll set it up.

[42:11] Why wait to be great?

[42:12] Am I right, Abe?

[42:14] Hey, I just want to make sure that we don't reinvent the wheel and we just steal from

[42:22] Adam's County.

[42:23] I mean, come on, we pay millions of dollars for attorneys that we hire out.

[42:30] We pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for you people that we have elected.

[42:38] And I'd really like to see you guys do the right thing and quite high in under

[42:43] other people's skirts.

[42:45] All right.

[42:46] Thank you, man.

[42:47] Appreciate your comments.

[42:49] I had a hand raised in the back.

[42:51] Come on forward.

[42:56] Amy, you're no stranger to the board, but please come forward.

[42:59] Give us your hand.

[42:59] Tell us where you're from.

[43:01] Good morning.

[43:02] My name is Amy Wenji and I'm from Castle Rock.

[43:04] I want to thank everybody.

[43:07] I want to thank the people in attendance.

[43:08] I want to thank the commissioners.

[43:11] This is an amazing measure that's being presented in front of our community and it is the

[43:19] first time I believe we've been doing this in 30 years.

[43:23] One of my main issues is if we go to the measure where it says three districts to outlard,

[43:30] this then has the probability of reducing each residence vote to 60%.

[43:36] Right now, we vote for commissioners at large,

[43:39] each person in this district.

[43:42] If it's going to be down to each district,

[43:44] then that vote gets reduced to 20%.

[43:50] I find that really concerning because as a county,

[43:54] we pool money and collectively from all of the county.

[43:58] It isn't from just one district.

[44:00] So I think it's very important that we have true representation.

[44:04] If we have people represented on the commissioner board that are from District 1, 2, or 3, as a currently is, each one is responsible for the county as a whole.

[44:16] If it's going to go down to districts, where's the accountability as a whole? I'm not sure. I don't see it.

[44:24] The other thing is, I've heard a lot of things about the wording and how we can't change things.

[44:29] have you guys ever seen what the Colorado State title board does? I mean time after time,

[44:38] ballot measures gets stuck on court and some of them don't even make the ballot. I think

[44:43] regardless of what some people think about the commissioners, they have been doing an amazing

[44:49] job at trying to be as transparent possible with this ballot measure. So thank you very much.

[44:58] All right, thank you, man.

[45:02] Does anyone else who would like to give public comment?

[45:05] Ma'am, come on forward.

[45:09] Look at that Stacy. I call on Casey Neal to come forward and give public

[45:14] public comment. Casey, you're no stranger to the board, but if you could, please give us your name.

[45:19] Tell us where you're from. My name is Casey Neal. I live in unincorporated Douglas County.

[45:24] Gosh, I don't even know how to respond to that, George. I really hadn't planned on speaking.

[45:30] And I was just kind of come here and listen today.

[45:32] But I do, and maybe I'm just lost in tall weeds here.

[45:36] But I'm super confused.

[45:39] So what happens?

[45:40] And obviously you're not going to answer me here.

[45:42] But I would like to hear that answer before this goes

[45:46] any farther in discussion with you guys.

[45:49] So what happens when, if, when, not if,

[45:52] when this ballot initiative that has been that's going to be

[45:59] the ballot that over 20,000 people agreed, you know, voted on and it's going to be on the ballot.

[46:04] What happens with that if when that passes and what happens when or if this little piece of

[46:14] legislation passes as well? I mean, clearly, there's a dichotomy here. So what happens at the end of the day?

[46:23] I mean, confusion aside on a voter's perspective, you know,

[46:28] how do you, as county people deal with that?

[46:31] And I, I just don't think that this has been well thought out.

[46:34] It's not been well thought through.

[46:36] And with all due respect to the attorneys and the people who came up with this

[46:44] I think that it's really a disservice to the people who have voted for you, and as well as the people who did vote for you, but all of the residents in Douglas County.

[46:59] And I want to go, I have 21 seconds left.

[47:02] I do want to address Amy's concept of everybody getting voted in and stuff.

[47:07] and I'm wondering how she feels or you all feel

[47:10] about having districts in the state house

[47:14] and districts in the U.S. House of Representatives.

[47:17] And I mean, do we just get rid of all of that?

[47:19] Because, well, you know, it's a little bit more transparent.

[47:22] It's not.

[47:23] Please reconsider this and please explain to me

[47:26] what happens when chaos reigns on November 4th.

[47:30] All right, thank you, ma'am.

[47:31] Appreciate your comments.

[47:34] I have one hand over here, gentlemen in the back

[47:36] in the red, check shirt.

[47:39] Please come forward, sir.

[47:40] Give us your name.

[47:41] Tell us where you're from.

[47:46] Hi, I'm the best bargea living in Hylens Ranch.

[47:50] If you look above, there is government for the people

[47:54] by the people and for the people.

[47:58] This is not for the people.

[48:01] Please reconsider this.

[48:03] Thank you.

[48:04] All right, thank you, sir.

[48:05] Appreciate your comments.

[48:06] I had, ma'am, over here in the horizontal stripe.

[48:12] Please come forward.

[48:13] Give us your hand.

[48:13] Tell us where you're from.

[48:22] Good morning.

[48:23] My name is Margaret Bradley Green.

[48:25] I live in Sterling Ranch.

[48:26] I'm honored to be here today.

[48:28] I would respectfully request that the commissioner is

[48:32] Look at me while I speak and let me know that you're paying attention

[48:36] and that this issue matters to you and that you're not doing something else.

[48:47] I'm wondering when the commission will be answering the questions that have been raised today regarding the motivation for the referred ballot measure.

[48:56] We heard some of that from the attorney and all of the other questions that have been raised. Are you bound to answer those? Are you legally bound to answer them when will you the commissioners be responding to issues raised here?

[49:10] And the question I have is how do you feel about going against the citizens who have signed this petition and who are here today out of concern for how this is being put forward?

[49:25] I'm just curious to know where you stand on determining how you're going to move forward against the voices that have been raised today.

[49:35] I'm just answering questions and I'd like to know when you'll respond. Thank you.

[49:39] All right. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate your comments.

[49:43] Anyone else like to give public comment? Yes, ma'am in the back. Kind of denim jacket.

[49:49] Come on forward.

[49:53] And, Danie, you know, stranger to the board, but please be given a

[50:01] I do oppose the three to five initiatives. I oppose more government and want less government. However, I do appreciate the transparency. I appreciate the transparency of the cost in the initiative title.

[50:15] And let's face it. The law does say that you are that title board and you are the ones who are supposed to clarify that for us. So thank you.

[50:22] I do appreciate the transparency of all of the options.

[50:27] I think everyone here should be able to appreciate the title, the initiatives on the ballot.

[50:35] We are voting on it, and we as citizens, Castle Rock, your district commissioner,

[50:40] Teal, we all have the option of voting for every single option, all of the options are transparent.

[50:49] And we appreciate that. Thank you.

[50:52] All right, thank you, B.M., appreciate your comments.

[50:55] It's anyone else who'd like to give public comment on this matter.

[50:59] I am seeing none, so let's close public comment, bring it back to the board for

[51:04] discussion, any possible motion, and of course any follow-up questions.

[51:09] Before we get to that, MAM, a second-of-last speaker, you asked, you had questions,

[51:17] and just like a couple of other people had questions.

[51:19] You had asked when are we going to address those questions?

[51:24] My hope would be that in the discussion,

[51:26] we're going to address some of the questions

[51:28] that were brought up.

[51:29] As to your question of, are we legally required

[51:33] to answer those questions?

[51:36] I want to say the answer is no.

[51:39] However, you know, we are representatives of the people.

[51:43] We were elected by our neighbors.

[51:46] I've lived here for almost 30 years

[51:48] and people who I've known for 30 years voted against me voted for me, and but we were elected

[51:54] to be here. So we probably should try to address the questions. I'll do my very best to answer

[52:00] those questions as I can. I leave it to my colleagues to proceed as they see that.

[52:08] With that said, commissioners, we do have a resolution before us discussion, possible motions.

[52:17] Well, and, of course, any follow-up questions to staff?

[52:23] Well, thank you, Mr. Chair.

[52:28] Do you know, in representing March and never stays,

[52:32] for questions, I hate it?

[52:36] How was it that we got accused a lot of, you know,

[52:40] with Homer we had 17 town hall meetings.

[52:43] We had press conferences.

[52:44] We had lots of open meetings.

[52:47] But on Friday it was accused,

[52:48] Just ear accused constantly of doing that in the dark.

[52:55] Of course, thank you.

[52:59] Do you know how it was determined to keep the voters from having the third option as permitted by law?

[53:08] Was there, like, were there town hall meetings or public meetings?

[53:15] Who determined to keep that away from the voters?

[53:17] I'm not aware of how the initiative works through their decision making process.

[53:22] Okay.

[53:22] I'm not aware of any meeting.

[53:24] Okay.

[53:25] We have the state Adams County major up here, but really that's, we should probably should

[53:29] have it as the state law.

[53:32] But we can go directly into the language if that's okay.

[53:36] Mr. Chair?

[53:37] Absolutely.

[53:39] Before we go into the question, Commissioner Layton, just trying to

[53:42] just because you're remote today, hope you're getting better. Hope that needs healing for you.

[53:49] Train to you. Any questions, any opening comments before we get into the language?

[53:56] Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the citizens who defied today, managing medical appointments at the same time,

[54:02] but this is critically important. And, you know, candidly, it's pretty straightforward in my mind, the question of whether or not all of the citizens

[54:10] voting electorate in Douglas County should have a right to elect their commissioners or not.

[54:15] So it's very straightforward to me. Thank you. All right. Thank you commissioner. Julie

[54:21] Audit. No, 20,000 people did not ask me to preserve the at large voting on the Board of

[54:29] County commissioners. 20 definitely did. I guarantee it. 20 did. No, I did not take their names.

[54:36] No, I did not make them sign a piece of paper.

[54:39] They approached me because I'm in their commissioner.

[54:44] They probably voted for me.

[54:46] Maybe they didn't vote for me.

[54:48] But the bottom line is yes.

[54:50] I had at least 20 people ask me to preserve

[54:53] at large voting for the Board of Accounting Commissioners.

[55:00] Third option required, and now deal with that later.

[55:06] Hey, Mary, and Stacey, thank you so much for reminding us on the thing that we worked on together

[55:14] here in Casorock. Yeah, I mean, I do believe that a mix of that large and district voting is actually the best.

[55:21] I don't think I said a word, actually, against the options put forward by the petitioners the other day.

[55:28] The reality is, I have had people say that no, they want to be able to vote for every member of the board of county commissioners, and by the way, when those 20 more than 20 people put that to me, I did argue with them, yet at the same time, I've got a responsibility to acknowledge it.

[55:46] Just like every one of you should appear expecting us to listen, I've got to listen to those people too, so that's going and even if I argue back with them.

[55:57] So, thank you very much for reminding me of the good old days here in Casorock, but that is guiding my actions today.

[56:07] I loved to, I actually, it's too bad that he left.

[56:10] I actually liked Representative Marshall's analysis of that large versus district representation.

[56:18] That was pretty cool.

[56:21] And then, well, I'll tell you what, that's me on my soapbox.

[56:28] Commissioner, you asked to get into the language before us on this resolution.

[56:33] Please.

[56:33] I invite you to kick off the conversation.

[56:35] I think he was a champion before that.

[56:36] There was one question that was raised during public testing.

[56:39] There seems to be some confusion about why, in our measure, it's basically clean, it's

[56:43] just that's in the method of voting.

[56:45] It's not going into the residency requirements.

[56:48] So I do have a question for our counselor to kind of specify why

[56:53] we don't duplicate or copy or try to, you know,

[57:00] restate what's already being stated in the first

[57:03] ballot measure that was approved on Friday for title.

[57:07] The residency, I understand, I mean, the citizen initiative already

[57:11] dictates the residency so we don't need to confuse things

[57:15] or try to overrule that, in any way,

[57:20] but perhaps you could explain why our measure doesn't

[57:25] need any reference to residency requirements and things like that, which are already

[57:29] covered in state law.

[57:30] Yeah, absolutely.

[57:31] So, I'm with regard to residency requirements in the county, which is brought up on Friday, you

[57:36] have to be a county resident to run for the office.

[57:39] I mean, that has nothing to do with what's being asked before us.

[57:42] With regard to their question, I think there's a little bit of confusion and maybe it's

[57:45] the lack of clarity on my part about what at large versus county wide means at large is

[57:50] the residency requirement.

[57:51] At large means that you can be anyone who lives in the county in run for that at large

[57:55] position or as county wide or so by contrast district so in a district you would be required

[58:02] to live within that district to run for that position so not the entire county.

[58:07] With regard to county wide in contrast to at large county wide is how it would be voted for.

[58:12] So the entire county, as it is today,

[58:15] gets to vote for 100% of the Board of County Commissioners.

[58:19] And as I believe one of the folks at that would change

[58:22] if it was one district, if it was about a lot of over 20%

[58:25] if it was two at large and one district would be a lot

[58:27] to vote for 60%.

[58:30] So residency isn't in ours because one to the county,

[58:34] it's not necessarily because it's not the question.

[58:36] And it's not in this because it's addressed in their question.

[58:40] Because ideally, you're asking all three questions

[58:43] to the point that has been brought up about 3 or 6.5.

[58:47] There's actually five outcomes that could come out of this.

[58:50] You could vote no one three, and it stays exactly the way it is.

[58:54] You could vote yes on three, and then you get to choose if you want district or at large.

[59:00] And then after you choose whether you want district or at large,

[59:02] which is the question brought forward.

[59:04] You get to choose whether or not you continue to vote the way you do today for 1%

[59:09] or if you want to vote just for your district.

[59:12] or by the district and bat bat large.

[59:15] So it allows you to continue to have that county white option,

[59:18] which was not asked, but is permitted by the law.

[59:21] This Douglas County in the way it's done it

[59:24] is given all the options permitted by law.

[59:27] So under the 306.5, they're giving all the options.

[59:33] Okay, well that makes sense.

[59:35] Thank you.

[59:42] A lot of people are really interested.

[59:44] They're in a digital mood today.

[59:46] A lot of that will happen.

[59:48] Commissioner what do we want to go from here hold to be fair Mr. Chair. I have spent a lot of time

[59:53] In the statute books and the laws on this so to me it makes sense, but I think maybe

[1:00:00] Before the average person who hasn't been spending as much time in the statute books, it may not.

[1:00:06] So one of the things, I think it's to be clear about today, we're not deciding how it ought

[1:00:11] to work. We're deciding whether the voter should have the third option hidden from them

[1:00:16] or given to them. So I think it should be, I don't know, I don't even know how the decision

[1:00:24] was made, I don't think anyone knows how it was made, to keep off the third ballot option

[1:00:30] there.

[1:00:33] But...

[1:00:33] Come on, folks.

[1:00:34] We had public cards.

[1:00:35] I was not invited.

[1:00:36] One town hall.

[1:00:37] I wasn't invited anything that was like, hey, we should take away people's right to vote.

[1:00:47] So I was, yeah, we could help this out with just young, creating a member of the audience

[1:00:53] to maintain order and decor.

[1:00:56] I don't.

[1:01:01] Commissioner, I think you can proceed.

[1:01:02] Okay, well, it's hard to talk, but I think we should get to the measure at hand, which I think we can probably clean up and just make is this clear as possible same as we did on Friday for the people that it's going to do.

[1:01:14] One, I think there's basically just a lot of words and some of them are duplicative, some of them are necessary.

[1:01:21] So Mr. Chair, if I could propose, we start with the very first line, which,

[1:01:31] how would, let's give our attorney a moment here?

[1:01:34] because I'm going to be proposing amendments to the language.

[1:01:43] I think we can just avoid some confusion for the voters,

[1:01:47] as is required by the law that we need to be clear title,

[1:01:51] clearing concise as possible.

[1:01:53] So I would propose that we remove the size of in the very first line

[1:02:01] and from 3, the number 3, 2, 5, the number 5.

[1:02:07] So would read in the event, the Douglas County Board of County Commissioners is increased to five members.

[1:02:15] In the event, the Douglas County Board of County Commissioners is increased to five members.

[1:02:22] We're just deleting some words that I don't believe I'd value.

[1:02:33] All right, let's, okay, we've got our first option as to amending the recommended staff language board.

[1:02:45] Commissioner Layton, what do we think about that?

[1:02:50] Yeah, I don't disagree with that, Mr. Chair, and I would commend Commissioner Van Winkle.

[1:02:55] You have spent the bulk of your entire life in your career.

[1:02:59] Both as a state representative, a state senator, and I was a commissioner deep diving into the law

[1:03:05] and statute. So respect the amount of time and effort you've put into looking at this and understanding it.

[1:03:10] And I believe that the north of 100,000 people that voted for you.

[1:03:15] certainly appreciate that as well. So I do support the amendment.

[1:03:19] Okay. I'm okay. I'm okay, Kevin.

[1:03:28] I'm okay right now. Let's continue with this. I might roll back up on it. Let's continue.

[1:03:35] Do you have any other changes?

[1:03:37] So, would now read in the event that Douglass County Board of Commissioners is increased to five members.

[1:03:43] I would say shall all registered Douglass County voters continue to elect all county commissioners.

[1:03:55] So, we would delete to be permitted

[1:04:01] and we would delete members that Douglass County Board of because that's already established it on the very first line that it's the Douglass County Board of County Commissioners.

[1:04:10] legal term

[1:04:13] and we would delete I think it's key here and we may

[1:04:19] require debate on the subject be permitted to vote. It'd be the term be be permitted to.

[1:04:37] I

[1:04:42] think including the term be shall all this kind of register voters be permitted to

[1:04:49] continue to vote. It is actually accurate I think it's completely true.

[1:04:53] Um, also.

[1:05:00] I also think it may be seen by some is

[1:05:12] take it overly complicated. I'll say.

[1:05:21] Simple question, keep it clear.

[1:05:23] Commissioner Layton thoughts.

[1:05:33] Vice-flight, and I define that to the much tighter and much more concise.

[1:05:38] And there for the voter to stand.

[1:05:42] Okay. Thank you, Commissioner. All right. Here's what I got.

[1:05:45] And the event that Douglas County BOCC is increased to five members shall all Douglas County

[1:05:51] registered voters continue to vote and elect all county commissioners commissioner.

[1:05:57] Do you think we need a four between vote and continue to vote for and elect all county

[1:06:04] commissioners or do you think the four is extraneous?

[1:06:09] So all Douglas County commission shall all the registered voters continue to tell the

[1:06:16] I don't know if

[1:06:23] we need the word for.

[1:06:25] I mean, they should be allowed to vote for it or again.

[1:06:27] So I don't want to.

[1:06:29] Oh, okay.

[1:06:30] I got you.

[1:06:31] I got you.

[1:06:32] That that presumes.

[1:06:35] A type of vote.

[1:06:36] We could say.

[1:06:38] Continue to vote for it against intellect.

[1:06:40] All kind of commissions.

[1:06:40] But I think those are extra words that may not be necessary.

[1:06:44] Continue to vote and elect.

[1:06:47] I just continue to vote.

[1:06:49] Yeah.

[1:06:49] Okay. I got six. All right. That was a history major. I wasn't an English major. That was sweat.

[1:06:57] Okay.

[1:07:21] Let's get a capital C in a capital C for county commissioners at the end.

[1:07:25] I think that would be consistent with the work we did on Friday.

[1:07:32] I invite discussion on that topic from the board.

[1:07:36] And they apologize, I think I may have just missed that last edit, regarding for my, I don't.

[1:07:43] Let me know if there should be additional items to this.

[1:07:46] Guys, please train your attention to the screen.

[1:07:48] Let's make sure we agree on that.

[1:07:54] Or...

[1:07:54] I can give it a go.

[1:07:59] Cancels this for the...

[1:08:20] Hey, guys, we're trying to read and we're trying to do this.

[1:08:29] That looks like what I got.

[1:08:30] What do we think, guys?

[1:08:32] for the discussion.

[1:08:45] I was probably appropriate considering we have monitors of the screen up here.

[1:08:50] I get it. So that was probably appropriate. Thank you, Councillor.

[1:09:02] All right, board for the discussion.

[1:09:14] What may not need to be capitalized. What do you think about the commissioner?

[1:09:17] County commissioners at the end. We need to be capitalized because it's not a county commissioner.

[1:09:22] George Teal is just county commissioners. I mean, they're titles, right?

[1:09:28] Isn't that a proper noun?

[1:09:30] An English major.

[1:09:32] If it was done this county,

[1:09:33] I think you would capitalize the county commission,

[1:09:35] if itself isn't.

[1:09:37] But I don't think it changes the meaning.

[1:09:40] I think if that's where our biggest problem is,

[1:09:42] is whether those C should be capitalized,

[1:09:44] I think we're doing pretty good on the ballot measure.

[1:09:46] Yeah, I think so too.

[1:09:51] All right, Phil is sounds like we're not a sense of sounds.

[1:09:57] Sounds like we're about there unless we've got

[1:10:00] For the concerns, I would have loved at the Capitol, by the way. My representant, when representant Marshall presents an amendment, it's on a physical piece of paper that's distributed only to the committee and no one else can see it until it's actually in law. I wish we would have this at the Capitol. This is nice.

[1:10:22] It's much more open. Something for us to talk to our representatives about.

[1:10:27] It was an uns, I mean,

[1:10:33] well, when representing Marshall, it's a throwaway comment, it's not necessary for the record at all.

[1:10:39] I was just saying, when I was at the Capitol, I would love to have a system such as this.

[1:10:43] At the Capitol, when representing Marshall, for example, presents an amendment.

[1:10:46] It's on a physical piece of paper that just shows you the only committee members.

[1:10:51] No one in the audience of the public can see it until after it's adopted.

[1:10:54] It actually it's the next day when the whole house or Senate would accept those amendments that it then becomes fully public

[1:11:03] But I was it would have been nice to have this then makes I think I would have what did a grammatical grammatical errors

[1:11:10] In state statute as we do sometimes have so I don't have any further changes. I think it's clear concise that people don't like it

[1:11:20] They do have two options. They can vote yes or no

[1:11:25] The residency requirements, if I was a voter, you could vote yes or no, three commissioners or go to five.

[1:11:33] If it goes to five, do I want them only district-based as in four of the five commissioners will be making decisions.

[1:11:43] But I don't get to vote for those four of five.

[1:11:47] Or you have the hybrid model of residency.

[1:11:51] We're not touching either of the residency or the district

[1:11:53] requirements.

[1:11:55] I'm that would entirely be decided by the first question.

[1:11:58] And then this just gives the third question which I do like.

[1:12:01] I would vote yes.

[1:12:02] If I don't like I would vote no.

[1:12:04] So it's pretty clear in concise.

[1:12:11] Can I show you anything else?

[1:12:13] No, I think it, I mean to me it would be clear.

[1:12:16] the language of Mary, each other, and they would presumably be presumably being next to each other in the ballots since there are the two counting measures.

[1:12:30] Can I show you the late any thoughts?

[1:12:35] Nope.

[1:12:36] None for me.

[1:12:36] Thank you.

[1:12:38] All right.

[1:12:40] Well, sounds like we have language for the resolution gentleman.

[1:12:45] Is there a motion?

[1:12:52] Let me be specific.

[1:12:54] Is there a motion on the to adopt the resolution for an ballot measure per our discussion?

[1:13:05] Tonight.

[1:13:05] Yes, Mr. Chair.

[1:13:06] I move to approve the amended resolution referring to ballot.

[1:13:09] Make sure to preserve all Douglas County voter rights and elect all members of the Douglas

[1:13:14] County Board of County Commissioners to the ballot for voter consideration and eventually wish to speak.

[1:13:20] Thank you, Commissioner.

[1:13:21] Is there a second that motion?

[1:13:23] Thank you, Commissioner.

[1:13:25] Thank you.

[1:13:26] Commissioner, I appreciate it.

[1:13:28] Commissioner Ben Winkle, speaking in the favor of the resolution.

[1:13:31] Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[1:13:32] Right now, the way it's set up the way our county government works.

[1:13:38] The way almost every county government in Carda works really.

[1:13:41] There's only three that have gone to either a district or a hybrid model out of the 64.

[1:13:50] So the way it works now is every voter in Douglas County gets to have a say in every single

[1:13:58] commissioner and hold those commissioners accountable.

[1:14:01] We hear a lot about accountability and I face accountability just as much today as a voter

[1:14:07] from Sedelian Highlands Ranch and Lontree as I do Franktown.

[1:14:11] If there's a water problem in Sedelia, I have a keen motivation to help those people of

[1:14:19] Sedelia has quickly and efficiently as possible because I represent them.

[1:14:26] I'm accountable to them and they will vote for or against me and can vote for against

[1:14:30] me.

[1:14:32] If a commissioner makes a bad decision in the future about your taxes, your roads, your property

[1:14:38] or if they already have, then they hold the accountability to the people who's roads they neglected

[1:14:43] or the water systems they abandon or the property or the taxes that they changed, and they'll

[1:14:51] hold the accountability for that. The current citizen initiative takes that power away by carving

[1:14:59] our county into...

[1:15:00] To single member districts, it would slash the voting power to only a fraction of board. Think about that. What that means of practice, a commissioner across the county could vote to

[1:15:09] re-sources from your neighborhood. And you would have absolutely no power to hold the mechanical at the ballot box. It replaces a countywide vision with the divorce ward,

[1:15:19] style politics, like more of a legislature as opposed to executive,

[1:15:23] paying it neighbors against each other.

[1:15:26] And it creates a very real possibility that you could have,

[1:15:29] say, three hundreds of entrepreneurs,

[1:15:31] two hundreds of entrepreneurs in a loan tree

[1:15:32] representative control all the resources for the county.

[1:15:36] And actually, if they diverted money for roads from somewhere else,

[1:15:39] and they can't even move to into their districts,

[1:15:42] they would be rewarded the ballot box,

[1:15:43] and the people who lost those roads or revenues,

[1:15:47] would have no recourse whatsoever.

[1:15:54] It also opens the door to Gerrymandering, which is just, as we've seen nationwide, and here

[1:16:04] in the state of Colorado, it has created tremendous political fights or boundaries.

[1:16:10] State law explicitly allows five-member boards to be elected entirely at large, at the

[1:16:14] sponsors of the initiative, purposely hit that option for the people.

[1:16:17] Our community challenge is traffic water, economic growth, don't stop at neighborhood lines in our leadership doesn't either.

[1:16:25] Today we are considering putting the at large option on the ballot. We don't get to make the decision for you or for the voters.

[1:16:31] We are giving the choice that was hidden from them. We're just giving the other choice to the voters.

[1:16:38] I say we protect the voting power. I say we give the choice to the voters and let the voters decide.

[1:16:45] All right, thank you commissioner, Commissioner Layton.

[1:16:48] Any comments on the motion?

[1:16:53] No, I agree with that analysis, and in many respects, you know, heard some comments about, you know, why can't we beat more Congress or more like this feature?

[1:17:03] And with all the respect, bodies, the average citizen does not believe that those governing bodies are making nearly the level of difference that they should be.

[1:17:13] Very proud of what has happened in Douglas County.

[1:17:17] We do have a particular history associated with every voter

[1:17:22] having the opportunity to weigh in and make decisions about

[1:17:26] what happens and who is elected to serve the entire county.

[1:17:30] So I do support the analysis and support the motion.

[1:17:33] Very good. Thank you, Commissioner.

[1:17:37] I had said before actually really enjoyed

[1:17:40] Representative Marshall's comments on how he talked about the structure of governance, the structure of government.

[1:17:48] I did appreciate Mary Wilson and C.T. Rogers reminding us all of our efforts here in the town of Casorac to do to introduce a

[1:17:58] at large and district representation model to the Casorac town charter.

[1:18:05] I think the thing that's missing in the debate that is very, very important is when we look at the examples of our federal Congress.

[1:18:15] Yes, you have the Senate, which is at large voting.

[1:18:20] You have the House of Representatives, which are district-based voting.

[1:18:23] It was phenomenal the way representative Marshall took us through the history of how we came to that.

[1:18:30] Even though initially states, per the Constitution, had many of their House of Representatives members appointed or elected at large.

[1:18:43] And so too, you know, that was a time when the Senate was often not an at large voting, but it was a appointment out of the state legislatures.

[1:18:55] I appreciate him bringing that up.

[1:18:57] I appreciate him bringing up the fact that here in the state of Colorado, we have preserved

[1:19:02] district representation in both the House of Representatives in the state Senate.

[1:19:07] And then, as I said, I appreciate Stacey and Mary bringing up the changes that we work together

[1:19:13] to bring to the town of Caseroch, by the way, Casey Neill didn't agree with that, so she's

[1:19:18] giving me a dirty look right now.

[1:19:19] And so I appreciate that, yes, we work to bring a mixed representation of that large

[1:19:27] and district representation to the town of Casorock changing the Casorock town charter to do so.

[1:19:36] The three bodies that I have just mentioned, or the three levels of government I have just mentioned,

[1:19:43] federal, state, and even here in municipality of Casorock, are all legislative bodies.

[1:19:52] solely legislative. The cast-track town charter for those of you who haven't had the pleasure of reading it through, particularly section one.

[1:20:00] One is very clear that the town council has no administrative, no executive functionality in the town. It is strictly

[1:20:08] a legislative body. And then, of course, I think we've all been taught since grade school, that the separation of powers we have at the federal level,

[1:20:16] between the legislative bodies that is Congress with the House of Representatives and Senate, is mirrored here in the state of Colorado,

[1:20:23] where you have the legislative bodies of the committee as a committee as a whole, I think it's referred to here in Colorado in the legislature versus the executive office of the governor and then at the federal level, the executive office of the presidency.

[1:20:42] Under Colorado Constitution, however, the boards of county commissioners exist in a hybrid state where we are both legislative,

[1:20:52] of, but then we are executive, as was brought out during the

[1:20:59] homeral discussion, as a statutory county, Douglas County is, you

[1:21:06] know, an arm of the state government.

[1:21:09] We are not an independent, uh, polity form of governance.

[1:21:15] That would have been changed with homeral.

[1:21:16] That's okay.

[1:21:17] Everybody decided to keep it the way it is, but that's important in

[1:21:21] discussion. The way it is now is we do have an executive role as an arm of the state, as

[1:21:30] an agency of the state of Colorado. Therefore, to say that district representation is the ideal

[1:21:38] is the optimal. Is ignoring this very big fact that the Board of County Commissioners of all

[1:21:47] But four counties in the state of Colorado who have chosen to go home rule is inherently

[1:21:53] both mixed legislative and executive.

[1:21:58] We do not form in the United States of America at the federal level or at the state level

[1:22:06] coalition governments like parliamentary governments do, like Canada, like Britain, etc.

[1:22:14] Instead, we do form a single unified government, defined by one party, sometimes it's Republicans,

[1:22:24] sometimes it's Democrat, really that's what we've had ever since, really ever since the air of the Civil War,

[1:22:31] when the Republican Party was formed.

[1:22:33] And so to say that district representation is the only proper option, I would say is incorrect.

[1:22:41] I, myself, I like mixed governance at the legislative level. I think that's the appropriate

[1:22:51] method of governance. But the Board of County Commissioners under the Colorado State

[1:22:56] Constitution is not just legislative. Is it a legislative and executive? So therefore,

[1:23:03] or despite the arguments, I do not see Julie or left in the audience.

[1:23:11] I realize I'm probably talking way too long and people got bored with me.

[1:23:16] But as Julie asked, have 20 people even asked us to preserve at large voting for the Board

[1:23:24] of County Commissioners, my answer is yes.

[1:23:26] That is an interest that is out there.

[1:23:29] due to the executive nature of the Board of County Commissioners,

[1:23:34] I actually do think that preserving at large voting for the B.O.C.C.

[1:23:39] is appropriate. It isn't appropriate choice to put to the people.

[1:23:44] I get it. I've heard it. I respect the work that was done to get 20,000 signatures.

[1:23:51] I understand how hard that is,

[1:23:56] but there's about 400,000 people who reside in this county.

[1:24:00] That's going to come out to around 350,000 voters.

[1:24:05] Ish.

[1:24:05] Jack can correct me afterwards on the number of actual registered voters in the county.

[1:24:11] They haven't been heard from.

[1:24:14] They have the right to be heard from.

[1:24:17] They have the right to have this question on the ballot.

[1:24:20] I speak in favor of the motion.

[1:24:23] Board, any further comments before we call the vote?

[1:24:31] For the discussion?

[1:24:33] for me, Mr. Chair.

[1:24:39] Very good.

[1:24:40] There is a motion and a second.

[1:24:42] The language was amended for the resolution before us.

[1:24:49] All in favor, say aye.

[1:24:52] Aye.

[1:24:53] Aye.

[1:24:54] And that passes unanimously.

[1:24:55] The resolution is approved.

[1:25:02] Well, that does conclude our work for today on the special business meeting on August 28, 2026.

[1:25:08] Next special business meeting will be called as needed. And we look forward to seeing everyone at our

[1:25:13] regularly scheduled business meetings on the first and third Tuesdays of the month. We are adjourned.

Board of County Commissioners Business Meeting on 2026-08-31 8:30 AM - SPECIAL BUSINESS MEETING - CONTINUED FROM AUGUST 28, 2026

Agenda

Transcript