[0:46] Twenty eighth twenty twenty six session to order.

[0:50] Tonight, we got several topics,

[0:51] and the first is the children's services act fund briefing,

[0:55] and we'll hear from Kristen Gallic,

[0:57] our social services director.

[0:58] Hi. Good evening. Good evening. Hi.

[1:01] Good evening, mayor, members of city council.

[1:03] My name is Kristen Gallowicz,

[1:05] I'm the director of social services for the city of

[1:07] Fredericksburg.

[1:08] And I'm actually gonna introduce Kristen Shores,

[1:10] who is our CSA coordinator,

[1:12] to give you a brief update on where the

[1:15] program stands today.

[1:18] Thank you so much.

[1:21] All right.

[1:22] So we our plan today is just to kind of give a quick overview

[1:25] of the Children's Services Act CSA program,

[1:29] walk walk through some trends of our population and

[1:32] expenditures, and then talk about next steps.

[1:35] So for for those of you who are not aware,

[1:40] the CSA program is a city program that serves youth and their families.

[1:45] We're housed in DSS, but we are a city program available to

[1:49] any of our child serving agencies.

[1:52] We have funding services available for children who

[1:57] meet our mandated population that for us is children in

[2:01] foster care or with in home services through

[2:04] DSS,

[2:06] youth with IEP designations for private

[2:09] day placements, and youth at risk for out of home placements.

[2:14] Those services to those children are some sufficient.

[2:19] We are required to provide services that are child

[2:23] centered, family focused, and community based.

[2:27] We use CSA as the funding of last resort,

[2:30] so we try to use services available through insurance or

[2:34] community resources before we come to CSA.

[2:38] We also look at to provide least restrictive services for

[2:42] these families.

[2:44] Our our services are matched by the

[2:48] state at an average rate of sixty six percent.

[2:51] So then the city share ends up being on average thirty four percent.

[2:56] We have two teams that kind of oversee the program,

[3:00] our community management policy team.

[3:03] CPMT is meant to provide

[3:07] policy and program oversight,

[3:08] and then our family assessment planning team provides case

[3:12] and service oversight.

[3:15] So we are looking at a service population.

[3:19] I will kind of frame a framework to this is that our

[3:23] service population is very unpredictable,

[3:27] very volatile.

[3:29] It can change the drop of the hat.

[3:31] So we have, to the best of our ability,

[3:34] projected projected for FY twenty six,

[3:38] but that can all change tomorrow.

[3:40] So we have provided numbers based on our

[3:44] current population.

[3:46] Just as an example, the last two weeks,

[3:49] ten children have entered foster care,

[3:51] we've had three private day school placements through the schools.

[3:55] So that has this is all subject to

[3:58] change tomorrow.

[4:00] So you can see increases across the board.

[4:04] The total youth served has increased in the past five

[4:07] years from sixty nine to a projected one hundred five for this year.

[4:13] Children in foster care similarly has had almost a

[4:16] twofold increase.

[4:18] In children.

[4:19] That number represents kids who were served in foster care at

[4:22] any point through that fiscal year.

[4:25] In f y twenty twenty two, that was forty four,

[4:28] and we are at eighty for this fiscal year.

[4:31] Private day school placements similarly have increased from

[4:35] twenty to twenty eight.

[4:37] Those private day school placements are costly services,

[4:41] about four hundred dollars a day for those,

[4:45] and those tend to be longer term because they are

[4:49] school placements for children.

[4:50] They're it's driven by their IEP.

[4:53] So they are there sometimes for several years.

[4:57] And then out of home placements are used

[5:00] as a last resort for kids who are not able to remain safely

[5:04] in the community or with their families.

[5:06] This is kids who need residential placements, group home.

[5:10] It is the, I would say,

[5:12] most vulnerable population that we serve.

[5:16] So those have increased almost or more than triple

[5:20] from six in FY twenty twenty two to nineteen this year.

[5:26] So we are seeing kind of across the board increases.

[5:29] The expenditures have nearly doubled for our

[5:33] projections this year from this time

[5:37] in f y twenty twenty two.

[5:38] So we are projecting a little over five million in expenditures.

[5:44] The majority of those are private day school and out of

[5:47] home expenditures.

[5:49] We are also seeing an increase in cost per child.

[5:54] A lot of these children have what we call wraparound services.

[5:58] So we are providing multiple services to address

[6:02] a number of needs that they

[6:05] have in different settings.

[6:06] So we are seeing not only the the increase in the population,

[6:10] but it also an increase in the cost per youth.

[6:14] So that brings us to our current financial situation.

[6:18] You we have approved allocation of four point one

[6:22] million with one point five for the city chair or city share.

[6:27] Our projected budget is five million.

[6:31] So you can see that we are in need of some more money.

[6:35] So we are as we have spent a lot

[6:39] of time kind of combing through our cases,

[6:43] our what we have kind of in front of us,

[6:45] this is reflective of the current population that we are

[6:48] serving and the current services that they are receiving.

[6:52] We're also aware that there are two more months in the fiscal

[6:55] year, so we

[6:58] we anything could happen.

[7:00] So we have brought this to CPMT for the past several months,

[7:04] been talking about what that

[7:07] what this should look like,

[7:08] what we should we've been working very closely with Mr.

[7:11] Whitley to come up with projections,

[7:13] and this is the best available data that we have for you.

[7:18] So, happy to answer any questions.

[7:24] And I will say just, you know,

[7:26] just to piggyback on what Kristen said is that Janon

[7:30] Holmes, counselor Holmes, serves on CPMT as the counsel appointee.

[7:35] So we've been keeping, as a member of CPMT, as well as Mr.

[7:39] Whitley.

[7:40] So just working with them to make sure that,

[7:44] as Kristen said, this can change tomorrow if we get more kids.

[7:49] You know, we had

[7:51] finalized adoptions, consents for eight kids.

[7:54] And then a week later, got to ten kids in care in two weeks.

[7:59] So it is a very volatile population.

[8:01] We are mandated to serve this population,

[8:03] but happy to answer, any questions at this time.

[8:07] What's the average age of a child?

[8:09] Is there an average age, or is it just changed daily?

[8:12] So the it's simply older.

[8:15] And the older

[8:17] generally, the more costly given the service needs that they have.

[8:22] I don't know if I could give you a specific age,

[8:26] probably around thirteen to fifteen.

[8:30] Yeah.

[8:31] Let me look at those those lists.

[8:33] And I have not followed the state budget on

[8:36] this, but and I know we don't really have all the answers yet.

[8:40] But what does that look like this year for The OCS,

[8:43] our office of children's services,

[8:45] they had to go back and ask general assembly formal money

[8:48] for FY twenty six,

[8:50] and then they have increased for FY twenty seven as well.

[8:53] So across the board, expenditures are are up for every everybody.

[8:59] Thanks, madam mayor.

[9:01] Do you have a sense of how these numbers compare to other

[9:05] jurisdictions in our region?

[9:06] I mean, proportional to population, obviously.

[9:08] Yeah.

[9:09] We are so everybody is experiencing significant growth.

[9:13] I will say our schools our schools do a great job of

[9:17] keeping kids out of private day placements.

[9:19] Most of the growth in the surrounding areas are related

[9:23] to the school expenses.

[9:24] Ours are related to foster care expenses.

[9:27] Okay.

[9:28] So that makes us different from you know?

[9:30] Are they seeing a proportionally similar rate of

[9:33] growth in the population served and the cost per

[9:37] per client?

[9:40] Our low our surrounding localities, their budgets,

[9:43] I would say, are about eighty percent school

[9:46] school related costs.

[9:48] So those are kind of set costs.

[9:50] And this and the general assembly last year put a cap on

[9:54] those services for their reimbursement rates.

[9:57] So that was a little bit tamed by that.

[10:00] But in terms of foster care placement,

[10:03] that can be a little bit more unpredictable because,

[10:07] once the kid's in foster care,

[10:08] you kind of have to come up with a plan

[10:10] To meet their needs.

[10:11] So that can that can be less predictable.

[10:16] And typically, we're working also with the families. Yes.

[10:19] So it's not Kristen talked a little bit about the wraparound services.

[10:22] So not only are we serving the child,

[10:25] but we're providing family reunification support for the

[10:27] family and other supports to either bring the child back

[10:31] home or

[10:35] support the family in other ways, material supports.

[10:40] Thank you.

[10:41] This a trajectory,

[10:42] this increase that's happened over the past five years,

[10:45] one that we expect to continue?

[10:48] That's a great question.

[10:49] Is it is it reflective of is that, like, normal?

[10:52] In other words, is it always if you took any five year grab,

[10:55] would you would you see that sort of increase steadily?

[10:58] Yeah.

[10:59] And can you point to anything that is it just

[11:02] is it mostly connected to just the growing population in in Fredericksburg,

[11:06] or is there do do you know if there's any other these are

[11:09] very easy questions.

[11:11] Yeah. Yes. Right. Exactly.

[11:12] There

[11:14] definitely if you look on the foster care and out of home

[11:17] placements in FY24 was a significant jump in both of those areas.

[11:23] I don't think that there's any one reason that that has that jumped up.

[11:30] But I will, I mean, just as a general statement,

[11:33] the children that we are serving is

[11:36] they're way more complex than we than they were ten years

[11:39] ago, five years ago in terms of the traumas that they've

[11:45] experienced, the needs that they have.

[11:47] So the services available haven't

[11:51] quite caught up to the service needs.

[11:53] Okay.

[11:53] So that's when we start looking at wrapping around services.

[11:56] That's when kids are at risk for out of home placements.

[12:00] So that that is

[12:03] across the board.

[12:04] I think our foster care numbers definitely spiked more than our

[12:07] surrounding localities.

[12:08] But as a general, foster care numbers are up.

[12:12] The

[12:13] the out of home placements are up for for everybody across the state.

[12:17] And that's when we can't put them when we can't put them in a local home.

[12:22] Because when when children come into care older,

[12:25] the trauma, the the the mental

[12:30] health issues, the behavioral issues are just much more severe.

[12:34] So it requires a higher level of care.

[12:37] Typically, it's an out of home placement,

[12:38] a residential placement, which, I mean, most I mean,

[12:42] gratefully, we're able to place them in state.

[12:45] But there are some instances where we have to place them out

[12:47] of state because their behaviors are so significant

[12:50] that there are no Virginia residential facilities that will take them.

[12:56] So but coupled I mean, when I started,

[12:58] our kids in care were eighteen, nineteen kids in foster care.

[13:02] We're now seeing we just hit the sixty mark. Right.

[13:05] So that's gonna drive so that along with cost per child,

[13:11] just is a combination of things.

[13:12] But you can't really we can't put our finger on one thing.

[13:15] No.

[13:15] That all makes sense.

[13:16] Thank you. Thank you. Miss Owens?

[13:19] I was just gonna add that, you know,

[13:21] when you talk to people who work in the schools,

[13:24] that they're also seeing, like,

[13:26] a higher level of behavioral issues.

[13:30] So, like, we would say, like, the acuity is higher.

[13:33] Whereas and where, like, some of the kids who now are served

[13:37] within the schools

[13:40] probably fifteen years ago might have been in the out of

[13:43] school placement.

[13:44] Okay.

[13:44] So I think that that and I don't know how that all works together.

[13:48] But when you all were talking, it occurs to me that, like,

[13:50] we hear the same things in the schools.

[13:52] Got it. Yeah.

[13:54] Yeah. Yeah.

[13:57] Could you also just talk about, like,

[14:01] when do you feel like because we talked about this a little

[14:04] at CPMT that

[14:08] some of our services for unhoused families

[14:11] or families of domestic violence and those kinds of

[14:15] things are within the city Then how that affects these numbers as well.

[14:21] Yeah.

[14:21] So so particularly for social services in the schools,

[14:26] if a family is just passing through Fredericksburg and an

[14:29] incident happens or if they're utilizing one of the shelters,

[14:33] that is our family.

[14:34] So a lot of the families that are transient that end up at

[14:37] Hope House or end up at Mary Shelter and then something

[14:41] happens that requires the child to come into foster care,

[14:44] we are now going to, that is our child.

[14:46] We're going to serve that child and family no matter whether

[14:49] they're passing through or this is their first night here.

[14:52] So we have several families that were literally driving

[14:57] through Fredericksburg that then something happened,

[14:59] and we have there and we have to navigate that.

[15:03] And if they if they come to one of those places and they

[15:07] already have an IEP Yes.

[15:09] For an out of school placement,

[15:11] then we have to honor that right.

[15:13] Automatic. That's correct.

[15:15] Yep.

[15:20] Any other questions for you and Ms.

[15:23] Shores or Ms. Gallen?

[15:25] No.

[15:25] But since they rarely come here,

[15:27] I think we should mention that miss Shores is an award

[15:30] winning CSA coordinator, and we like to

[15:34] we like to bring out her trophy.

[15:36] Like, let me.

[15:37] So I just wanna You're welcome.

[15:38] Thank you.

[15:39] Well, thank you for all of your support.

[15:40] Thank you.

[15:41] Thank you. Okay.

[15:45] Mr. Whitley, yeah, sure.

[15:46] I'll just follow-up for counsel that

[15:48] this discussion will tee up and we'll bring forth for y'all's

[15:52] consideration a fiscal twenty six budget amendment.

[15:57] It's a significant amount of funds.

[15:59] So, we're still working on a plan to we ought to consider to fund that.

[16:05] Fiscal twenty seven

[16:08] does have an increase in funding both in local transfer

[16:11] and overall.

[16:13] We hope it's enough.

[16:15] The trend lines are obviously spiking at the moment.

[16:18] Hopefully, they'll level off but hard to say.

[16:22] But that is one of the things you'll see in the budget is

[16:27] between twenty six and twenty seven is an increase to CSA.

[16:32] So we'll be back to see you in a couple weeks,

[16:35] but wanted to make sure y'all had a heads up.

[16:38] Okay.

[16:39] Thank you, mister Kelly.

[16:40] Thank you all.

[16:40] Thank you. Thank Thank you. Good to see you.

[16:44] You.

[16:47] Mister Whitley, that sort of segues into your budget

[16:50] presentation or discussion.

[16:52] That's why twenty twenty seven.

[16:55] And, yes, you did give us a heads up on that number going up

[16:59] in twenty twenty seven, unfortunately, sadly, I guess.

[17:02] But thank you. Yeah.

[17:05] Hopefully, the the services work well,

[17:07] and the kids will be.

[17:11] So tonight, we just wanted to have full year

[17:16] kind of a work session topic.

[17:18] There are several budget notes done.

[17:22] So I'm sure y'all are all aware.

[17:25] Go through them really quick.

[17:27] And I'm gonna reverse out because we have the first read

[17:31] on ENT fees, first read on board and tour availability

[17:35] fees, first read on board and tour rates.

[17:40] First read on real estate tax rate at eighty four cents.

[17:44] And first read on the budget.

[17:47] And just wanted to take a moment

[17:50] to thank counsel for all the

[17:53] hard work and review.

[17:54] And there's a lot of staff that kind of pulls the budget

[17:57] together for the finance and the city manager's team.

[18:00] It gets to y'all and y'all really go through it.

[18:03] And we appreciate that.

[18:06] There's a few things on for tonight in terms of the budget

[18:10] for first reading does have a school number,

[18:12] and the school number is you know,

[18:14] the city manager's recommended increase in transfer plus the

[18:17] three hundred thousand in state.

[18:20] When they came a couple weeks ago,

[18:21] they said that they felt very comfortable that was a

[18:23] conservative number.

[18:25] We obviously don't have a state number yet because the state

[18:28] budget is,

[18:30] I know, over time, double over time.

[18:32] I'm not sure what what the right analogy is.

[18:36] Box.

[18:36] Yeah. It it could go.

[18:38] But we felt comfortable giving the

[18:41] first read request for y'all's consideration.

[18:45] They they obviously would appreciate clarity as they work

[18:48] on the contracts and things.

[18:50] So that's the number.

[18:51] And we are gonna meet with them at a staff level and a and a

[18:56] mayor and chair level to discuss the fund balance and

[18:59] possible uses of fund balance.

[19:00] So second read may not look like for sure we have

[19:04] identified a plan that we're working on.

[19:06] Hopefully, can all come to agreement.

[19:09] In terms of the other things that are on,

[19:11] we've been working very **** ** some specific ideas.

[19:16] A lot of those propositions are in.

[19:18] There may be a couple that we still have to catch up to.

[19:21] So there may be some changes on second read.

[19:23] But we just want to remind you that that that y'all have a

[19:27] budget that's pretty momentous in front of you.

[19:31] We're gonna build a fire station.

[19:33] That's part of this budget capital funds.

[19:37] Gonna adopt a public safety pay plan.

[19:39] That's a great step plan that'll put us on the same basis.

[19:42] And we really appreciate your support for that.

[19:46] Additional employee compensation for some career

[19:49] letters and then, you know, four percent for the employees.

[19:51] I think we're up to ten new positions now with the

[19:56] additional from including a lot of help with fire service,

[20:01] and we we do appreciate all of that.

[20:04] There's obviously more money for schools,

[20:06] more money for DSS, more money for CSA,

[20:09] and we just are very grateful for all your support and

[20:12] consideration of those items.

[20:14] I wanted to kind of back up away from some of the specific

[20:18] things, and we're happy to get back into those.

[20:20] But there's a lot in here and a lot of big things,

[20:25] a lot of big changes for our community.

[20:26] So I just wanna remind you of all

[20:29] that and and appreciate your consideration and support.

[20:33] With that, I'll stop, and we're happy.

[20:39] We're here, and we're happy to answer any questions you might have,

[20:42] any topics, any thoughts,

[20:44] or considerations that you might wanna bring back on.

[20:48] Before we talk about any issues,

[20:50] I'm gonna hear disclosures from council members.

[20:56] Thank you. I'd like to read my disclosure.

[20:59] My wife is employed by the Federal University Public School System,

[21:02] and I can participate in this conversation or any transaction

[21:05] fairly objectively and in the public interest.

[21:08] And I provide contract mental health services for the city

[21:12] schools, and I can participate fairly objectively and

[21:16] within the public interest.

[21:19] You. Okay.

[21:21] Are there any questions?

[21:22] Thanks very much.

[21:24] Yeah. Mayor Frank.

[21:25] I just just wanna I'll just make a comment

[21:28] on on kinda what you touched base on earlier.

[21:31] I hope that I hope that the schools can

[21:35] figure out a solution.

[21:36] I just wanna say that.

[21:37] We had our presentation last week.

[21:40] Well, we had another presentation.

[21:41] We had a conversation last week at our own work session.

[21:44] So hope that something can be worked out that it makes sense.

[21:49] You know?

[21:52] We we now know that they are, you know, in a sense,

[21:55] a surplus of funds that can be used or redirected,

[21:59] and I I hope that that works out.

[22:02] I we talked about it last week,

[22:04] but I just want to say it again today.

[22:05] I hope that, you know,

[22:07] I hope we come to a to a point that that makes sense where we

[22:10] don't have to raise taxes anymore than we're doing this year.

[22:15] And, you know, for the public's sake, you know,

[22:17] we do realize what the increase was last year

[22:20] in this tax rate, and we know what it looks like this year.

[22:23] And we're trying to stay away from maxing that out this year

[22:27] from what we proposed.

[22:29] So I hope that we can stay away from that.

[22:32] And totally understanding that folks are getting priced out of

[22:35] the city of Fredericksburg.

[22:37] It's just just the way the world is and what's happening.

[22:39] So instead of, you know,

[22:42] kinda pointing a finger at us and saying that we're the ones that's doing it,

[22:45] I wanna say that we're working as hard as we can not to not to be the reason.

[22:51] Things had to be done. We had to pay for services.

[22:53] We need a fire station. You gotta pay for that.

[22:56] There was a cry from the public for for a new school.

[22:59] We did that. It's gotta be paid for.

[23:01] So it's just the reality of how things go. So yeah.

[23:04] But it's not easy in in this budget season.

[23:08] Any budget season is is really is really not easy when we look

[23:11] at, you know, what what we have to do.

[23:13] And then also we look at what we totally can't do,

[23:17] you know, based on what I just said.

[23:19] We could do everything, actually,

[23:21] if we we just keep raising the taxes,

[23:23] but it's it's not beneficial.

[23:25] So that's all. I just want that was my comment, really.

[23:29] Advice mayor Fry and I will be meeting the staff and school

[23:33] staff tomorrow just to have another discussion.

[23:38] So Okay. Thank you. Are there any other questions for Mr.

[23:43] Whitley about the budget?

[23:46] I I do wanna kinda echo what vice mayor Freiberg said about, you know,

[23:49] it's always a challenge with wants and needs and the

[23:53] direction, you know, we we're going in and

[23:57] taking on projects that we've put off for a long time

[24:00] that simply can be put off, you know, fire station,

[24:05] wastewater treatment.

[24:06] I mean, there's there's absolute needs that have to happen.

[24:10] But I also just wanna commend staff again to for bringing us

[24:14] a budget that,

[24:16] you know, meets those needs in as realistic and economical

[24:21] way as possible.

[24:23] So thank you for that.

[24:25] And I I don't wanna thank all the budget staff team.

[24:30] But I also wanna thank our, you know,

[24:32] my fellow council members for the discussions we've had and the,

[24:36] you know, things we've pointed out to each other and the concerns

[24:40] we've all had for our community and the attempts we make to

[24:45] meet those needs.

[24:46] So thank you all for the discussions we've we've had.

[24:51] Miss Holmes?

[24:52] I I called Tim earlier today because I wanted

[24:56] clarification,

[24:58] and I was just having with the the water increases.

[25:01] So we have the the eight percent for everyone.

[25:05] Fifteen point four percent if they have a

[25:10] the bigger, like, pipe going in and people are

[25:14] taking or, like, it's, like,

[25:16] one inch versus you were talking about, like,

[25:19] the is it the meter size?

[25:20] It's not the height.

[25:21] It's the It's the use it's the

[25:25] usage, but it's like but it's but it's also

[25:29] if there is something about the You did pay more than a meter.

[25:33] Yes. Yeah.

[25:34] For for the different meter. Okay. That's right.

[25:36] So That has always been turned over.

[25:37] Right.

[25:38] So but they people are not paying more until they

[25:42] go over that twenty five thousand gallon

[25:46] threshold for two months.

[25:50] Yes.

[25:51] With the caveat well, all

[25:54] of the rates are going up eight percent.

[25:57] Right?

[25:57] So so I wanna be careful about not So the so the fifteen the

[26:00] fifteen point four percent doesn't kick in,

[26:02] is what I'm saying, until That's right.

[26:04] And so I went back through,

[26:06] and we've had multiple discussions on this.

[26:09] And I just wanted to kind of clarify that piece.

[26:13] And then the other thing that I and so we talked a lot about,

[26:16] like, you know, is this gonna be

[26:19] passed on to people who are living in apartments and those

[26:23] kinds of dwellings.

[26:25] And and we we've been encouraging density.

[26:30] And we have to pay for the water treatment plant,

[26:32] and we have to pay for the the water.

[26:34] So I was what my question was was could we

[26:39] kind of re you know, like,

[26:40] evaluate this six months and a year with the new rates

[26:45] and see, like, how that's going just to kind of monitor?

[26:50] I would say, absolutely. Right.

[26:53] I mean, we probably would anyway,

[26:54] but I just want to put it out there that, like,

[26:57] let's just see what how it shakes out.

[26:59] And, you know, maybe people are using less water.

[27:03] Maybe but but I don't I do want to keep an

[27:07] eye on the burden that might be passed on to people who are

[27:11] living in apartment buildings.

[27:13] I would say that to

[27:17] it won't be a year because it'll be more like six to nine

[27:21] months when we're back in the budget process.

[27:23] You said Minimum.

[27:24] Thank you. Yeah. Great.

[27:26] And then if it's if we need to before that,

[27:29] we'll definitely come and see you.

[27:30] Okay.

[27:31] And to remind people with the new bathroom meters that they

[27:35] can kinda keep an eye on water usage in

[27:40] Okay. You know, just Yeah.

[27:42] If if they're seeing a spike or something, you know,

[27:44] there are ways that people can take a look at it and address

[27:48] it maybe more quickly.

[27:49] Absolutely.

[27:50] So,

[27:51] Mr. Rowe?

[27:52] Thank you, madam mayor.

[27:53] Just for one clarification,

[27:55] it was we can go back and take a look at how everything's been

[27:59] charged and what consumption that we have on tier one and

[28:02] tier two a few months from now.

[28:04] But if we want to look at maybe doing something different,

[28:07] just to clarify from something from last week,

[28:10] we would deem like a fuller study for that.

[28:12] Right?

[28:13] Yes. Yes.

[28:15] If we're talking about what we were talking about last week,

[28:17] we're basis of our rate structure.

[28:20] Right.

[28:21] Yes. That would take more time. Okay.

[28:23] If we're talking about,

[28:26] you know, the impact of a tier two or, you know,

[28:30] changing a base rate or changing the initial,

[28:33] you know, volumetric rate or consumption rate,

[28:37] taking a look at that, I mean,

[28:38] those are things that we would do every year.

[28:41] Right.

[28:41] So so there there's things we do within our rate structure.

[28:46] We're absolutely gonna bring consideration for

[28:49] next spring minimum.

[28:52] And if it's really something's going bump in the night,

[28:55] we'll see you before that.

[28:57] Changing the

[29:01] the structure of our rates radically,

[29:05] not by, oh, let's do tier three.

[29:07] That's not what I mean. I mean, like, radically.

[29:09] Like, the basis changes.

[29:10] That probably would take a lot more work.

[29:13] So that's the distinction I'm making.

[29:16] Thank you for the question. Yeah.

[29:19] Really make that distinction.

[29:20] The only reason I brought that up is to miss Holmes's point

[29:23] that, you know,

[29:24] if if we are talking about multifamily residential likely

[29:28] hitting that tier two level fairly quickly into my

[29:31] monthly billing period, then it would be tough.

[29:35] Like, we could we could go back and look at the consumption and

[29:38] what's what everybody's being charged.

[29:40] But to do anything about that based just on consumption would

[29:43] be really hard unless we were to have a more holistic

[29:46] look at how we do, how we charge people.

[29:53] You don't have to answer that.

[29:54] That's Yeah.

[29:57] On what you to do.

[29:57] Yeah. Right.

[29:58] If you change the threshold, for example, then why Right.

[30:00] Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Not as difficult. Okay. Gotcha.

[30:04] Back to my question.

[30:05] Yeah. Just to follow-up. Right?

[30:06] I mean, I think for because that's the question.

[30:08] I just when we go back and look,

[30:10] I I'd love to know what percentage of tier two users

[30:13] are residential users as opposed to other kinds of

[30:16] commercial or institutional users.

[30:18] I mean, I don't want identifying data for any individual client,

[30:21] but I'd love to know what percentage of tier two is is

[30:25] residential.

[30:26] And I'd love to see if we could figure out

[30:29] sort of sort of what the impact is in that in those cases,

[30:33] right, in terms of for those residential users that are in

[30:36] tier two for the amount extra that they're paying

[30:39] as a result of being in tier two,

[30:41] what does that look like per unit?

[30:43] Right?

[30:43] You know, are we talking about are we talking about a couple dollars

[30:46] a month, right, when it's distributed across units,

[30:49] or are we talking about something bigger than that?

[30:50] I would love to know

[30:51] Like, what the actual impact is per unit of of

[30:55] being bumped into tier two as a residential.

[30:58] Right?

[30:58] Because, you know,

[30:59] I I I think that the rates are close enough that we may end

[31:03] up seeing per unit.

[31:04] It's not actually a huge difference. Right.

[31:07] But I would love to know that number once once we have some

[31:10] experience under our belt.

[31:11] Yeah. Awesome.

[31:12] Thank you.

[31:12] I'm gonna put my plug in once again that we look at monthly

[31:16] billing as well for next year.

[31:18] I yeah. Yeah.

[31:19] Now that we have the technology to support it.

[31:21] Great.

[31:23] Yeah. Yep.

[31:27] Yes, ma'am.

[31:29] I think she's bringing it up.

[31:34] Are there any other budget questions for mister Whitley?

[31:40] We're all here.

[31:41] If

[31:46] there are not any other questions or issues to discuss

[31:49] at this point, we actually could move up our Closed session.

[31:54] Closed session.

[31:54] And

[31:57] we would recess and go into the other conference room.

[32:03] So it looks like there's probably time for that.

[32:05] If so, is there a motion to go into closed session?

[32:11] I

[32:13] would like to move that we go into closed

[32:16] meeting for consultation with legal counsel and staff

[32:18] pertaining to actual litigation,

[32:20] specifically pending class actions to which the city may

[32:22] be a claimant where such consultation in open session

[32:24] would adversely affect the negotiation or litigating

[32:27] process to be counsel pursuant to Virginia Code section two

[32:30] dash three seven one one point seven.

[32:33] So thank you.

[32:37] Alright.

[32:38] All

[32:41] those in favor?

[32:43] Aye. Aye.

[32:44] Alright.

[32:46] We will move into room four hundred points meeting with.

Fredericksburg City Council Worksession 4/28/2026

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