[0:30] Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the March 1st Board of Advisors meeting. And for

[0:52] those in audience, and those that are watching tonight on TV are watching a video. So, Mr.

[0:58] Willow, public worker, call the roll call, please. Mr. Gibson, Mr. Chris Carroll, Mr.

[1:04] Smith, Dr. Orr, Mr. Hudson, Mr. Hadrick, Mr. Bezon, all present. Okay, let's all stand for the rise for

[1:14] the invocation. Followed by the pledge of allegiance, and I'll be giving the invocation. Let's

[1:20] our heads please. Let us pray heavily, Father. We live in uncertain times, times not imagine just two years ago.

[1:27] Communities still struggling with the coronavirus, and it's effects under lives and the

[1:31] families. Businesses and local governments trying to maintain or even find good, competent

[1:35] employees that today's world, a changing climate that will affect many lives in our fragile environment.

[1:41] And now one war on a democracy on herd of since World War II. However, what is certain in this world is your

[1:48] love for us? And let me read a few verses from John 15, verses 9 through 13 and 17,

[1:55] as a father has loved me, so I have loved you. Now, we make it my love. If you keep my commands,

[2:01] you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my father's commands and made in his love.

[2:06] I've told you this so that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be complete. My command is this.

[2:12] Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one that greater love has no one

[2:19] than this to lay down one life for one's friend. In the 17, this is my command. Love each other.

[2:25] And again, let's keep the people in Ukraine in our thoughts and prayers. And Jesus name your pray. Amen.

[2:42] Okay, let me get rid of this mess here. Okay, approval of the minister, gentlemen, I

[3:02] am three to seven to seven seconds, sir. Okay, the second, all the favors that I. Okay,

[3:08] the adoption of the agenda, sir, something motion to approve. Okay, all those in favor say I.

[3:14] Okay, we have approval of the consent agenda, sir. All those in favor say I. Okay, next I'm matters presented

[3:22] by the board. Mr. Gibson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I just appreciate everyone being

[3:28] here tonight. It's fantastic to see a so many folks from the community here. And the reason of one of

[3:34] the reasons I'm glad you're here is because I want to take this opportunity to recognize an outstanding

[3:39] county employee that I think many of you know Karen Schalf of page middle school. Karen is the choir director

[3:48] and theater arts teacher at page middle school. She's been with the school system for many, many years.

[3:53] She pours her heart and her soul into her work and the her students benefits so greatly

[3:59] from her work. And just as past weekend, she and her team of volunteers, Katie Kava, Carolyn Molly,

[4:07] and Becky Hogg put together along with many many students the production of Frozen Junior at the

[4:13] high school. I'm sure many of you attended that. I had an opportunity to go to both shows and it was

[4:19] outstanding. I think we've got some future Broadway stars here in Gloucester and I just wanted to

[4:26] commend Mrs. Schalf for all of her hard work and the many many hours that she put into this production as well

[4:32] as the students. There were over 40 students in the cast as well as countless volunteers. And I think

[4:38] it was just an example of the excellence that we see in Gloucester County Public Schools. So Mrs. Schalf is here

[4:44] with her son, Jayce, if they could stand up and be recognized.

[4:57] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'd be able to add the matters presented by the Vortanite.

[5:02] I see in London we're going to move to the County Administrator items. Miss Thiel,

[5:06] acting administrator, please. I am very happy that we have a mask change. And as of today,

[5:13] based on the new guidelines and our low transmission rate, we are no longer requiring masking

[5:18] county buildings and county employees are ecstatic about that. I want to remind everybody that

[5:25] clean Gloucester Day is on Saturday, March 26 from 9 to 1 and you can go online and register if you

[5:32] already haven't and if you're out that day and you're not a part of it, please be cautious as you're watching

[5:37] people clean the streets and I, it's a and grounds and it will challenge to all of us to not have it

[5:43] turn back around in a few weeks later because that seems to be kind of what happens. So let's kind of

[5:49] that's keep it clean and green. Also want to make sure everybody has their calendar mark for the upcoming

[5:55] Daphatil Festival which will be on Saturday and Sunday, April 2nd and 3rd and there's the show and

[6:01] there's tours and there's all kinds of other wraparound events. So please check those at the parade just

[6:08] check those out on the website and I wanted to give a quick update on our Gloucester collaboration that

[6:17] on March 21st, I will be online and zoom with people from Gloucester's all over the world and planning for

[6:25] our September 3rd Gloucester Day and we've already had a couple meetings on that and some more

[6:30] press will be coming out and there will be meetings with students on that day on a separate zoom and

[6:35] also members of the faith community on another zoom with people from Gloucester. And you will

[6:43] may have gotten, I know Mr. Krisco did but I just want to make sure and if you haven't will send out an email

[6:48] this is the annual request from the PDC for the commissioner's priorities and it's due on March 15th

[6:55] so we'll send this out and I think you all can just reply right directly to them. It is a word

[7:02] document so I'll send that out and that's all I have sir. Okay any questions for Miss Deel. Okay we're

[7:06] going to move on to citizen comment period now. We have two public hearings tonight. If you are

[7:11] here for one of those two public hearings we'll have an opportunity for you to speak following the

[7:17] presentation of the public hearing. So this particular component of the meeting is for just matters presented

[7:23] by the, I'm sorry, the citizen's a comment period just for general items on today's agenda. So again

[7:30] if you're here for one of the two items on the public hearing please wait until those are presented and

[7:36] then if you're here for that you can we'll ask for a citizen comment period. So are there any citizens who would

[7:40] like to come to speak to the board outside of the public hearing? I know Miss Deel Mary is going to be here

[7:52] obviously.

[8:04] How do we get your mic on one second? I read out there. Okay. We don't want to

[8:11] have a suburb. As we look forward to this fiscal year and plan for the next careful consideration

[8:19] needs to be reviewed on our national and world current conditions. First we do not have money.

[8:26] Inflation has reduced our net income to almost zero. The government now must change its mindset.

[8:33] The adage of tax and spend is over. The new deal is cut spending and save. Some on the board say we have

[8:41] no cash flow or have a cash flow problem. Now true we have a spending problem. Now is the time to shop

[8:48] an axe in the pen. Or for an early out to cut cost. Free is all hiring. We're only hired what is

[8:55] most essential. Limit all spending to essentials. With volunteer is to a wall-law inventory of every item

[9:02] not nailed down or sunk in concrete. The truth will be done. net and now. I will even give you a free

[9:09] database of summary from the inventory. As you prepare the budget provide transparency by showing

[9:15] the revenue and expenditures by line item in a six-column format per year. Do two years plus

[9:23] the current proposal with percentages of differences by line and year. Is there going to be a

[9:30] town hole meeting on your budget for the benefit to ask questions as to your reasons before you vote to

[9:37] approve or accept. Thank you for the time. Thank you, Mary. Any other individuals that would like to

[9:43] talk to us or comment to us regarding general items? I see no other miscraner. Are there any

[9:53] emails that are phone calls? Okay. Then if I don't see any others then I'll close the citizen comment

[9:59] period and we'll move to the public hearings. The first one is item A public hearing to consider

[10:05] issuance of not to exceed 37 million general obligation bonds for the Virginia Public School Authority

[10:10] this by BRG financial officers. I was going to say yeah let's get him in here. And I'm going to grab

[10:15] our financial advisor from else. Okay.

[10:40] Okay.

[10:54] That's okay. We'll get governance.

[10:58] We'll be waiting for you since.

[11:10] Okay, Mr. Chair, first thing I want to note, and Ms. Spivian are going to sort of tag

[11:16] team on this, and we obviously have a lot of experts in the room to help with that

[11:21] tube between Davenport reps and also the school reps.

[11:24] But I wanted to note that you have a replacement resolution that was put in hard copy, and

[11:31] there were extra copies provided, and the only changes, the blanks were filled in that are

[11:38] on paragraph 4 on pages 2 and 3, and just the highlighted areas, and you'll see that

[11:45] again, on their section 4 had 5 and a half percent, and the December 31, 251 date put in.

[11:53] So that's the only difference between what is in the board packet.

[11:57] So we've been working towards tonight for a while.

[12:00] We know we've got a number of capone prudent projects that have been approved, and it's time

[12:05] now to go out and get the funds to pay for them.

[12:09] The item that's on the screen is a summary.

[12:13] This was done last in the last board meeting as well, and so we have a public hearing for comments

[12:20] tonight.

[12:21] We're here to answer any of the questions.

[12:25] I know there was some concern raised about the wording on if we need to do some tweaking, so

[12:34] I would suggest that maybe you have the public hearing, and then we can talk about a words

[12:39] smithing.

[12:40] This vibe.

[12:41] Anything you want to add?

[12:42] The long thing I'll add is that our financial advisory team is here, a little bit of technical,

[12:49] and so after the public hearing, if you have questions for them, and with that, I think we know

[12:57] what we're here for.

[12:59] Okay, Andy, question for Ms. Spivey or Steal before we open the public hearing?

[13:05] If not, I will open the public hearing.

[13:07] Are there any individuals that would like to speak to this particular public hearing?

[13:17] I don't have a misdemeary.

[13:20] Yes.

[13:21] Thank you.

[13:22] We're going to get away.

[13:23] No.

[13:24] I was just waiting patiently.

[13:27] Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.

[13:31] Our Maori Pressworth.

[13:33] Here we go again, more debt, but only for a specific long-term structure and infrastructure

[13:39] equipment.

[13:41] The major question is how you can borrow money when you have had no preliminary bids received

[13:47] or even a solid spec sheet, established for the contracting bidders.

[13:52] This is insane.

[13:53] Do you really think the citizens are that stupid that you were fall for this proposal for

[13:59] the unknown?

[14:00] I found a state code, 22.1-175.4, and 22.1-175.5, construction loans, or a part of the funding

[14:13] that is available annually on a pro-rated basis to the divisions.

[14:18] So, where is it in the budget under what I know?

[14:23] This proposal tonight is flawed as to how it is presented.

[14:27] There are two distinct separations merged into one document, major renovations and FMRR projects

[14:34] that can be managed on an annual basis with no debt.

[14:38] They are paving, playground, lighting, roofing, amounting to $3.2 million.

[14:44] These items are all reoccurring, and their shelf life may be less than the proposed

[14:49] upgrade of use of the sector to suggest you to ten-year span.

[14:54] Additionally, you speak of debt, what is the current combined debt for the school system?

[15:00] It's annual payment schedule at what costs combined with its new proposal. If you do not have these figures tonight,

[15:08] how can you, and honestly, place a burden on the taxpayer who loses another portion of their

[15:14] net income that is required to meet the mortgage, put on clothes and food on the table?

[15:20] Howly recommend this proposal be rejected on the school board, not to superintendent a principal arm of

[15:27] this report, provide you, provide you with the figures required to borrow with contract

[15:37] vision hand until then, all projects are on hold. Thank you for the time.

[15:43] Thank you, Mr. Mary. Any other citizens that would like to comment on this specific

[15:48] public hearing?

[15:52] Ms. Cronett, any emails or phone calls? Okay, if I see no other citizens coming to speak to

[15:57] this public hearing, I'll close the public hearing on this and open the floor for questions to

[16:03] the Mr. Spidebeard or the school board people.

[16:06] And Mr. Chair, could I add a comment that if there's any interest, I'm sure one of the school reps

[16:13] can come up and speak to which of these projects have already not only been bid, but the items

[16:19] are in hand. So, for example, the playgrounds have all been purchased, these were things that were

[16:25] budgeted for some time, and engineering estimates were provided in order to create the budget estimates.

[16:33] So, again, this has been something we've known was coming, and it is also the first

[16:40] construction funds that would be used for the high school. Right now, the previous bond paid for

[16:47] the drawing, for part of the engineering, and this will keep that going as well as the actual

[16:53] construction. And then, in a year from now, we would be looking at a second bond for the rest of the

[17:02] financing. So, if there's any questions about any of the items, I mean, we know the bus compound

[17:09] that has already been bid and is out, HFAC, I think they've got most of not all of the

[17:16] paving, the playgrounds purchase. If there's any of those kind of questions, then I would relay that to

[17:21] a school. And we have people from Davenport here, correct? Yes. Mr. Spidebeard, we received the

[17:25] bid on the transportation facility. That was bid, and it came in over bid, and the board appropriated

[17:34] an additional schedule. It's a good one. Yes. It's a project on the other way. The site plans

[17:40] approved, they've been working on it. Yep, they're clear of the way. I'll say my advice. I know you will.

[17:50] Yes, Mr. Spidebeard. If anyone heard me last time, and I'm just going to make this brief and short,

[17:57] we are, and I'll say this again, when I voted for the referendum in my wife and

[18:04] kids voted for the referendum, we intended that money would be used for the school system. The way we did

[18:10] our budget was in accordance with the way the statute was written, and it's why I agreed to vote it,

[18:14] or at that way. However, as I'm sure you folks will know, if you voted for the referendum,

[18:20] I'm sure you voted for the referendum to benefit the schools, which I agree it should, but you did not

[18:26] vote to mismanage the funds coming from the one-cent sales tax. And the reason why I say

[18:33] mismanage is because we're betting we're depending on $5 million a year to pay for this debt

[18:40] for the renovation of the high school. If we don't get the revenues and anyone given year, if we're short,

[18:48] we're going to have to come to the tax payer for the difference every time. If the schools come up with

[18:53] another capital project that wasn't intended, or it was emergent, we'll have to pay for that,

[18:59] and where will that money come from? It'll come from us, the tax payers again. So we're betting,

[19:05] ladies and gentlemen, we're betting that we can hope and pray that we get the $5 million a year for this project.

[19:11] I will also say that if we need to make sure that whatever the loan amount will be, whatever that loan

[19:19] payment will be, any amounts, over that loan payment should be set aside in a separate account for emergent

[19:27] issues that may come up for the school system. That money has to be used for the schools, nothing else,

[19:31] but it should be set aside and used for any kind of emergent issues. So I'm going to vote for this tonight,

[19:40] but it's a $50 chance. Folks, we're taking a risk here. We're maxing out our credit card, ladies and gentlemen.

[19:47] This is what's happening in Glosser County tonight. We are maxing out our credit card. And the news

[19:52] media is out here. I hope that we do not mismanage this money, that we do not mismanage this

[20:00] debt, and I certainly hope that we make the revenues that was intended to be made as a result of this

[20:06] one sent sales tax. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Pazon.

[20:10] Yes, Mr. Pazon. Mr. Pazon, Mr. Pazon, is there a second that we have this further discussion?

[20:18] Is there a second for that motion? Yes, and that is further.

[20:22] Okay, is there further discussion? Mr. Crisco, I am six. Yes, sir.

[20:28] I remember the last time we did this back in 2013. We took a $17 million borrowing

[20:36] 12 million for page middle school and then another five million for other projects for the schools.

[20:43] That that meeting they were lumped in together, but I would like for us and our first

[20:47] where as on our resolution to where it says the local school bond to finance cost of public school

[20:55] projects contained in the county's capital improvement plan to then insert this list that we have here

[21:03] up on the screen for the projects as well as the dollar amounts associated with those projects to be added

[21:10] into this resolution. That way it gives us clear sight and clear tracking into the dollar amounts that

[21:16] it will be spent. Thank you, Mr. Crisco. Any other comments? Yes, Mr. Pazon.

[21:21] I would agree, Mr. Crisco, that this is, you know, enumerated in the resolution to make it abundantly clear

[21:27] for both us as governing body and for the public who may be affected, your real estate tax is may be affected

[21:35] because this huge amount of debt will be taken on for the renovation of the high school. Again, the problem

[21:42] with the high school is the HVAC system and I know my kids went there and they complained way back

[21:48] when, you know, 20 years ago when they were in the high school at Gloucester High and they were complaining about

[21:52] the heat and the cold. That should be the first priority. If the bids come in so exorbitantly high,

[21:58] I'm hoping that we can look at reviewing the scope of the work and reducing the scope as necessary to get us

[22:06] within budget. I'm not willing to pay another penny for debt for any emergent issue that may come

[22:12] out in the renovation of the high school. Mr. Hill, maybe you have the debt where people explain

[22:18] the debt issues. This is we have a lot of people here that are here for another reason, but it might be good

[22:24] for the person that having poor people. Kind of walk us through some of the debt issues because again,

[22:30] we do have a number of loan debts that are going to be paid off in short order one and then the other

[22:38] in 2027-2029 as Mr. Hector brought up before. We will have some capacity in the not-too-distant future.

[22:45] Mr. Malawi, we're all provided with a significant list of what the payments are every year for each of these loans.

[22:52] So we're quite aware of what our debt payments are. Some of those will be retired. And yes,

[22:57] as Mr. Bezani said, who knows, the crystal ball has been not very good by economists in the recent past,

[23:06] but Mr. Dattinport, I mean, it's cool. That's cool. That's cool. That's cool. Thank you.

[23:12] Just kind of run through some of these things regarding the debt issues that we've got.

[23:16] Sure, particular this one request for this particular component.

[23:20] Okay, I'm happy to give a little perspective on that. I'm Ted Cole with Dattinport.

[23:25] Just if you take a step back before this potential new bond issue,

[23:30] tax-supported debt of the county and I'm going to go back to the audit for FY21,

[23:35] there's about $31.6 million of debt outstanding. And those are debt issues that have been issued over time for various purposes.

[23:44] And you're paying about $4.3 million a year as a county on that debt annual debt service $4.3 million.

[23:52] And $3 million of that $4.3 is principal. So you're retiring $3 million of the principal every year.

[24:01] We've got to, or you all, have a fairly significant step down in your annual payment in fiscal year 25.

[24:08] So we're finishing up fiscal year 22. In fiscal year 25, your annual payment is going to step down and I'm rounding, you know,

[24:18] 7000 dollars. It steps down again in fiscal year 28 by about another $500,000. So I'm sorry, I don't have this for you.

[24:30] But in this chart, you can see there's some stair step down. So that is your debt profile as it exists today before this borrowing.

[24:40] And again, $4.3 million and we know there's some step downs as older bond issues come to their final maturity.

[24:47] So going forward, I'm sorry, but I'm sorry. Do we have a picture of that chart?

[24:54] We don't, okay. So Mr. Cole, I think it might be good because when we say FY25, the first, the last payment is I believe,

[25:02] June of 2004, correct? May be $23.23. 23. 23, right?

[25:10] It's going to step down in 24, it's from 24 to 25. So, because I went through those numbers with

[25:18] Ms. Bybe. Right. Because it does play a big role in response to Mr. Hedrick's question about what would happen

[25:27] if another project came up that we needed a significant chunk of change.

[25:32] The interest payments.

[25:38] 23. 23. July 15 of 2003, which is the very beginning of FY24, right, is your last payment on the 2003 bond.

[25:49] That's Achilles and Bottetot.

[25:52] That's $600,000. Well, you said $700, but it was $5,000. It was $5,000.

[26:01] That's correct. That's the total payment for that bond issue. It's $5,99.

[26:08] And so that is that 2003 bond step down is what is driving the majority of the reduction from 4.3 million to 3.6 million.

[26:19] Can you say it again what the potential revenue from the one-cent sales tax will be approximately?

[26:25] Yes, in our planning work for fiscal year, we once again get to that page.

[26:32] fiscal year 22, the year we are in, $5 million is what's in the modeling and then $5.25 million in FY23.

[26:50] So that would be the annual principal and interest payment per year for that?

[26:54] So that's the new revenue that is already from the one percent sales tax.

[27:02] Mr. Hudson has a question.

[27:04] Well, I'm not. I'm sorry.

[27:06] Okay. Mr. Cole, are you going to be here for agenda item 11A?

[27:12] Yes.

[27:13] Okay. Can be.

[27:14] I think I mean, I'm setting it thinking because that's when we're talking about the one cent.

[27:19] He just got.

[27:20] Okay. So that's where I'm thinking it might be better.

[27:22] Some of the, I think he also is. I don't want to cut you off.

[27:28] Okay. So I guess just, again, starting at where you all are in terms of tax supported debt,

[27:35] although I don't have it on the screen. You do know there's some step-downs

[27:39] beginning in fiscal year 25. This particular debt issue is model that

[27:46] going through the Virginia Public School authority, which you all have done before,

[27:50] they issue twice a year. They're going to be selling bonds in the spring.

[27:54] This is the one approval that's needed from the County Board of Supervisors.

[27:59] The school board has considered their resolution. And in our discussions with staff,

[28:03] we've determined and putting this bonds issue together, 35 million of projects.

[28:11] And it's, they're enumerated there on that slide lines 1 through 7, how we got to 35 million.

[28:17] And line 7 is sort of, if you would, it's the plug number,

[28:22] glossed our high school renovation, 24.1 million. That brought us to an even 35 million.

[28:28] The way the reason the resolution states a principle amount not to exceed 37 million

[28:35] is where we go to the upper right side of this page. And it's a Virginia Public School authority recommendation

[28:42] that when you approve the amount of debt to be issued, they'd like you to approve

[28:47] with a 5% cushion. And that is to account for a potential bond structure that they control,

[28:55] you all don't control of what we call a discount pricing. And it's all set up in a way the primary goal

[29:03] or the goal is to get you the 35 million. You may need to issue a little more than 35 million to get that.

[29:11] But you're only going to issue enough to get the 35 million. So that 37 million up to up to 37 for the

[29:20] principle amount. If we're pricing today, you wouldn't need it. In fact, we'd actually go the other way.

[29:26] You would actually only be issuing in the low 30 millions to get 35. And again, that's not specific to

[29:33] glossor. That's the way the bond market works. The goal of this resolution and the two amounts is to

[29:40] try to provide you all and VPSA, the flexibility to get you the 35 million. At the end of the day,

[29:47] you said, you know, we want 30, or we want 40, that parameter would change. But based on the planning work,

[29:54] we've done in saying we want to close this loan and be able to deliver to the county, 35.

[30:00] We've got a million for these projects. The resolution is written, does that. And you won't issue any more than

[30:06] needed to get the 35 million. Plus, the issue is cost. We've got a placeholder of 150. I think

[30:13] it's closer to about 80,000. So it's a little less than what we've shown here. The expectation

[30:18] would be that a next spring, there would be the potential for another borrowing to provide funding

[30:26] for the remainder of the gosh or high school project. And I suppose anything else you all might determine

[30:32] is appropriate.

[30:33] I just want to let him finish his thought.

[30:35] Oh, yeah, sure. When we funded and sold the bonds for the page middle school,

[30:41] there was some touching go issues there with respect to where we able to sell enough bonds

[30:47] in time to complete the project. I recall that did happen. It was late in coming. Do

[30:53] you anticipate what the economy the way it is? And possibilities of things going overseas

[30:59] that may affect our own economy. Do you feel there will be enough investors out there to buy

[31:04] all 35 million of these bonds?

[31:06] Quickly.

[31:08] I do. And you have a track record or you have an empirical data that shows that?

[31:12] I mean, the Virginia Public School Authority is the issuer of the debt. So they're the issuer

[31:18] of the debt. They're very highly rated as a component of the Commonwealth. They will

[31:26] be selling bonds on behalf if you approve this on behalf of Gostre and some other number of counties

[31:33] or cities that are applying for this spring pool. They have an excellent track record of

[31:39] having sold bonds even in what are difficult markets. Obviously there's no guarantees that

[31:45] come the day that they're selling bonds in April that we know what the interest rate is

[31:52] or we know that there's adequate buyers. But if the bond market is functioning and the market

[32:01] is open, VPSA has as good an opportunity to sell bonds competitively as any other issuer. They're

[32:07] triple-A rated, leveraging off of the state's triple-A rating.

[32:12] Are they are the VPA underwritten by any other entity that would back up those bonds if they

[32:17] weren't not sold in time? Gostre goes to the list would come back to the county then, right?

[32:22] Yeah, the risk would come back to us. Yeah, the risk would come back to those jurisdictions who are in

[32:28] the pool. And if for some reason something occurred where VPSA could not access the market or

[32:36] seize the market as being just not functioning and they feel like in their judgment they're

[32:44] better off waiting than everybody in that pool would have to wait. So what that would mean again,

[32:50] risk to the taxpayer if the bonds aren't sold quick enough or in a timely way to match the pace of

[32:58] construction, then the taxpayers here in this county will have to make up the difference in some way.

[33:03] To continue to pay the contractor, which we have a contract with, a firm fixed price contract,

[33:08] those payments have to come from somewhere. Again, ladies and gentlemen, that's more risk

[33:12] that we're about to take to selling these bonds. There is a risk, right? There is a risk that the bonds

[33:20] don't sell in April, sure, certainly. So the taxpayer will be left holding the bag making up the

[33:26] difference. So we'll probably possibly come to the taxpayer for the 5 or 10, maybe a 10-cent tax increase

[33:31] possibly, and that's saying what the amount would be. But there could be a time when we say not only one,

[33:36] number one, we don't make enough revenues in the 1-cent sales tax. Number two, the bonds,

[33:40] the selling of the bonds weren't keeping up with the pace of construction. And so therefore the taxpayer

[33:44] has to make up the difference with payments to the contractor because he will sue if he doesn't get his payments

[33:48] for a performance of work. So there is a risk there as well. I suppose I would defer to others who know

[33:57] what contracts have been left for what projects and what can be canceled if the bonds don't

[34:01] sell. I don't know the answer with that. Okay, any other questions from Mr. Cole?

[34:07] So we have a resolution and Mr. Crisco, do you want to amend that? That's it, include, we don't have, we have a

[34:15] resolution. And I will make the motion that we accept that resolution with the addition that I suggest.

[34:23] Well, we have a resolution already. We have a second. We have a second. Yeah, we have a second.

[34:28] And you want to just amend it too? I would like to amend it too for my change.

[34:42] I think Mr. Crisco alluded to the first whereas paragraphs, whereas paragraphs just tell

[34:48] a story, they're not really substantive. It's really that now therefore be resolved or deemed paragraphs

[34:54] that are of importance. So although you could certainly tweak the definition of project in the first

[35:01] whereas paragraph, it's really as Mr. Bruno indicated modifying paragraph 1 on page 2 of the authorization

[35:11] of school board of school bond and use of proceeds that I think should be modified. Yes, sir, which would

[35:20] clarify the maximum amounts attributable to each of these projects as indicated on the above chart.

[35:27] You okay, Mr. Crisco? Mr. Smith? Okay. Thank you. Mr. Crisco, it has a question.

[35:33] I do have what Mr. Bruno said over this. It's not, it's not, yes. So you will use that and I have it right here.

[35:42] In his email, but it's, it's not recounting of the school roof, it's recoding.

[35:47] So you might want to put that in. So it's, what you would do is you would substitute the following

[35:53] language for the language contained in section one on page two. The board here by determines that it is

[36:01] advisable to contract a debt and issue and sell its general obligation school bond in an

[36:06] aggregate, principal amount, not to exceed $37 million, parenthetical the, quote, local school bond

[36:13] and quote and parenthetical. For the purpose of financing the project period, the board here by authorizes

[36:20] the issuance and sale of the local school bond and the form and upon the terms established pursuant to this

[36:25] resolution period. The proceeds of the local school bond use for a particular component of the project in

[36:32] capital peak is defined in the first whereas paragraph. She'll not exceed the following amounts,

[36:37] colon, parenthetical one in parenthetical, bus compound $5 million, $35,000, comma, parenthetical

[36:44] two in parenthetical school h-vac, $2,532,362, comma, parenthetical three in parenthetical school

[36:53] paving $1,588,650, comma parenthetical four in parenthetical playgrounds, 748,431 dollars,

[37:03] comma parenthetical five in parenthetical school lighting 717,458 dollars, comma six parenthetical six

[37:14] and parenthetical school roof coating, not recounting $236,250, comma and glossed her high school

[37:25] renovation, $24 million, $141,849, period. Set, right? Thank you. Okay Mr. Christopher, have you

[37:38] with that? So we have motioned to set the resolution as amended as the seconded and the other

[37:44] discussion is question. If not miss steel pulpit more please. Mr. Cole. You said earlier that to get the

[37:57] 35 million we might be bonds around 30. We ran numbers based on the current market and to get the

[38:08] 35 we were pretty close to 31 million because of something called original issue premium. So that

[38:17] resolution allows for that we just can't go that 31 can't go above 37. How often in the past that we

[38:26] had bonds sales like that. And for the last several years we've had this premium structure where

[38:36] if you want 35 you sell 31 but it works the other way which is a discount where if you want 35 you

[38:44] might need to sell 36. It's been sometimes since we've seen that but as rates go higher the chances of

[38:52] that become more likely. Where will the rates possibly need to go to? They. They, we ran these numbers

[39:07] and let me say that the way that VPSA sells their bonds that premium is not guaranteed. They take on a day

[39:16] in time certain they take bids from underwriting firms that do this. So every underwriting firm will

[39:21] bid these a little differently within very specific bid parameters that they're required to

[39:29] to adhere to. So one bidder might bid a premium bid and another bid's a bid with less premium. But point

[39:36] to your question if we're seeing rates now in the the low to mid mid two percent's

[39:46] we would we would need to get. I want to say you know in excess of three and a half to four

[39:58] percent. So I mean it could take a fair amount of rate movement to get to a discount pricing. But

[40:05] again I want to emphasize the bidders are giving given parameters that they bid on and and even

[40:12] in today's environment. One bidder may be bidding a premium and the other may be bidding less of

[40:19] a premium because of just where they believe the market is and what they believe they need to be able

[40:25] to sell those bonds to the market. Mr. Bazaar. Thank you. So much like the public has a credit score

[40:32] for you know their debt to asset ratios. Well this huge amount of debt that we're taking on affect our

[40:39] our either our bond rating or either our credit rating in any way because of the we're

[40:47] we're plusing up our debt almost double right and what we have now. Right. Yes sir we're plusing up doubles

[40:52] like we're going out with our credit card and buying a Rolls Royce. Does that affect our credit rating

[40:58] that? To the detriment not to the positive. Well I think it's it's I would answer it this way.

[41:05] debt levels absolutely are figured into your credit rating and generally speaking higher levels

[41:11] of debt mean that you have less financial flexibility. You have more fixed costs and and that all things

[41:19] being equal is is would be a negative on your credit rating or your credit score. That said debt ratios and

[41:31] measurements represent somewhere between 10 and 20 percent of the rating. You have things like the

[41:37] economy which is tax base and tax base growth wealth levels jobs. You have things like finances,

[41:46] your fund balance the way you budget the way you performed a budget that represent almost 60 percent of the

[41:51] rating. So debt is definitely important and generally speaking more debt means less flexibility which is

[41:58] a negative on the rating but there's also other significant components to the credit review that

[42:06] one could argue investment in schools creates opportunities for growth creates opportunities for

[42:15] job creation. So it is it's it's there are several things that go into the the review of credit but

[42:22] you know yes I would say higher level of debt represents less financial flexibility all things being

[42:29] equal you. So does that put us more at risk let's say emergent issue comes up with a school system that

[42:35] you know they need another $5 million to repair some other system in another school will that make it

[42:40] more difficult for us now that we're so in hawk just use Lehman's terms that we will not be able to

[42:47] get the debt and if we can't get the debt then we have to rely on the taxpayer to make up the

[42:51] difference. I guess what what I would say is when I look at the level of debt you all have today and what

[42:59] we're talking about adding here no doubt we are adding a significant amount of debt I don't believe

[43:04] it's going to preclude you from the ability to borrow in the future you know some lenders might look

[43:11] at it and say look there they got they got a higher level of leverage than they did a few years ago

[43:16] and we're less comfortable with that but I think when you look at where you are for a county of your size

[43:22] I don't think you are overextended by taking on this debt I think you still maintain a very solid

[43:29] credit and debt profile but I suppose all things being equal the the more debt you do now means you know

[43:37] you may have a harder time taking on debt in the future and a more difficult time repaying that debt

[43:43] all things being equal but again as you said we are going to be getting rid of debt in FY 25 27 2020 no you're

[43:51] paying off debt every year paying off principal $3 million a year. What's our current credit

[44:01] rating? The county has been historically rated as a double A. Well I want to say and we're

[44:10] not sure it can help me I think because the bonds that carried the bond rating have matured or

[44:18] been refunded that that rating has gone away. So it's not that you're not credit worthy it's just

[44:24] those bonds are no longer outstanding so they don't need to be rated. So gentlemen the public what

[44:30] they mean by the bond rate just for your adifications I know you hear for something else but I want

[44:34] everybody to understand what we're getting into here folks is your FICO score if you have a FICO score

[44:39] 300 you're not going to be able to get any debt you won't be able to borrow anything. What Mr. Crit Mr.

[44:45] Mr. Hudson's mentions that our bond rating is like a FICO score if our FICO score goes now so low we won't

[44:51] be able to borrow anything so the only way to make up the difference is through your real estate taxes.

[44:57] So we are

[45:00] We're taking a huge risk, folks, a huge risk going forward.

[45:05] Any other questions from the call?

[45:08] We have the resolution that's been amended, and I see no other questions or comments, so

[45:15] mistil, hold the board, please?

[45:19] And I want to make sure we do not.

[45:24] We just had it.

[45:26] Mr. Chair, if I may, before you finish, I did not know that what I just read at Nazium was already in your board packet.

[45:36] It's not.

[45:37] Oh, it's not.

[45:38] But it's right there.

[45:39] She pulled it up.

[45:40] Oh, thank you.

[45:41] From the today's email.

[45:42] If I had I known that, I wouldn't have made it.

[45:44] That's okay.

[45:45] It was.

[45:46] It was.

[45:47] So that's the one you want.

[45:48] Right.

[45:49] And we do not need to vote on the amendment, right?

[45:53] Friendly amendment or whatever that was.

[45:55] Not a certain general consensus.

[45:56] Okay.

[45:57] All right, so.

[45:58] Okay.

[45:59] We got it.

[46:00] Going for the bond with this additional information at it.

[46:03] Okay.

[46:04] You're probably too bad.

[46:05] Okay.

[46:06] And this is the fall of the board, please.

[46:09] Okay.

[46:10] Mr. Chris, go.

[46:11] I'm sorry.

[46:12] It is in paragraph.

[46:17] It is in the paragraph home, but it's not in the warehouse.

[46:20] Right.

[46:21] Okay.

[46:22] Mr. Chris.

[46:23] Yes.

[46:24] Mr. Smith.

[46:25] Yes.

[46:26] Dr. Orr.

[46:27] Mr. Hudson.

[46:28] Yes.

[46:29] Mr. Hadrick.

[46:30] Mr. Visani.

[46:31] Yes.

[46:32] With great caution.

[46:33] Mr. Gibson.

[46:34] Yes.

[46:35] Okay.

[46:36] Motion carries.

[46:37] Okay.

[46:38] Thank you.

[46:39] Okay.

[46:40] Red move to the next public hearing.

[46:41] Would you like us to stay for the.

[46:43] Well, right.

[46:44] Go maybe on the back if you want to.

[46:45] Yes.

[46:46] Okay.

[46:47] So ladies and gentlemen, the public hearing that we have next.

[46:51] Is on the proposed FY2327 Capitol Improved Plan.

[46:56] So this is a public hearing.

[46:58] There are no decisions that it can be made tonight about taking anything out of the CIP.

[47:03] This is just to allow the citizens to comment on the proposed CIP plan that Mr.

[47:10] Steel presented.

[47:11] So we'll have Mr. Steel make a brief presentation.

[47:15] Comments from the board.

[47:16] And then we'll open up the public hearing.

[47:18] To the citizens who want to assume.

[47:20] Most of where you were here for this specific public hearing.

[47:23] So, Mr. Steel, I'll let you begin.

[47:26] Okay.

[47:27] Your presentation.

[47:28] Thank you.

[47:29] So this is an abbreviated version of the presentation that I made on January 18.

[47:34] So if any members of the audience are looking for more information.

[47:38] It's on the county finance page.

[47:40] And it's also in the meeting on the meeting portal.

[47:43] So this again, updated for tonight.

[47:46] And the topics of discussion reduced.

[47:49] We're going to talk about pay go funding meeting that we pay for it with cash that we collected that time.

[47:55] Bonds or finance projects.

[47:57] Similar to what we just mentioned.

[47:59] Projects that were not contemplated as part of the CIP.

[48:03] And then the summary of recommendations and the utilities information.

[48:09] And ending with the timeline.

[48:11] Mr. Reminder that we have a scoring.

[48:14] Whole process that we go through that includes the public input from the planning commission.

[48:19] And a rating of priorities from the board of supervisors as well as, of course, the scores from the department heads and things.

[48:28] And this is the first page that lists each of the projects as they scored.

[48:34] And with the red yellow and green were the county administrator or in my case.

[48:42] The priorities for those projects.

[48:47] And I'm sorry this is so hard to read, but I did highlight some yellow of some of the changes.

[48:53] We'll be talking later on tonight in close session about the library.

[48:58] And the board members may recall that what I had proposed in the CIP was to not put 5.6 million in for a new library.

[49:07] But to put in $250,000 for repairs or enhancements.

[49:13] I should say at the existing library and to continue the lease.

[49:17] The other item that was marked in yellow.

[49:20] These are the only two things that were different from what was originally turned in by the department heads.

[49:25] That originally was turned in as a year one project.

[49:29] And thankfully, the IT director was able to push it back a couple years.

[49:35] Cash funding issues.

[49:37] If you add up all the things that everybody requested for the five year timeframe, it's over $32 million.

[49:44] It would be nearly impossible to fund those projects in five years time.

[49:50] We do know that at each time that we push projects back, they result in higher cost.

[49:57] And they also end up competing with other new things that then come on to the five year list.

[50:05] In the budget meetings with the board, talked about how we used to have a cash reserve for capital improvement projects.

[50:13] And I strongly encourage that the board works towards that goal again.

[50:19] And then I mentioned at the last presentation that is it time that we consider a 10 year plan versus a five because it's kind of,

[50:30] I mean there's no way these projects are going to get done in five years.

[50:33] So should we be looking at a longer time period.

[50:36] And does the board also want to consider possibly removing some of the items.

[50:41] Or at least marking them like I have on the ones that aren't considered because it, you know, it's not possible to do all of them with the funding that we have.

[50:52] So my recommendations include pay-go items and some special reserve accounts and carry over.

[51:00] So the items in green are the things that are a part of the CIP recommendation.

[51:06] First one is air conditioning retrofit for the schools for the school buses.

[51:12] And in the small print there talks about allowing the board to use their FY22 operating fund balance at the end of the year to come back and ask the board for that as they have for other projects.

[51:25] And to be able to fund those retrofits in that manner.

[51:30] The Aberdeen Pier, as the board is aware and you all passed a resolution supporting that grant application and our commitment to that would be 40,250.

[51:41] And if we get it then the whole project would be funded and we would be reimbursed.

[51:46] And the full project cost $161,000.

[51:49] And we'll know in May if we are going to get that grant.

[51:54] The poll books over $66,000 that needs to be done.

[51:59] And again we're hoping to do that in FY22 either with contingency money or money from within the registrar's department or a combination.

[52:09] So it's not in next year's recommended CIP library I already covered.

[52:15] The Woodville Park field renovation is the largest item that's included at $855,000 plus.

[52:24] The historical building preservation which are the buildings in this circle that are in great need of care.

[52:31] There's a restricted tourism fund for that so it is pay go but it would not come out of the general fund that would come out of the reserve account instead.

[52:40] And the next item that I've included in there is the bus garage conversion and that was to start on the project where we would look at items that can be done while the school board is still using that facility.

[52:56] Looking at the roof and HVAC and some septic and things that we could go ahead and start on that project.

[53:04] So right now if this budget was to go forward in this manner we would be pushing back another $3.6 million to another day and we would be funding 1.4 with cash pay go.

[53:23] When we look at our fund balance which is generally the source that the board will use for capital improvement budget since we don't have a true reserve account.

[53:36] We ended the year of F by 21 with 23.2 and if you skip on down looking at all the things that have been done to this point you really get down to the green line which is important as we expect.

[53:51] If we keep the 15% midpoint that we expect to have $350,000 that could go towards pay go or it may be needed to balance the operating budget as well but that would be you don't normally use fund balance in that manner.

[54:11] And that would leave a gap even if we spent the whole 350 of 1.1 million of the things that I'd like to see funded that would then have to again be added into the operating budget.

[54:23] On the bond projects this is just the two pages where it's got the amounts and the scores.

[54:29] They're together the only bond projects are engineering and school related and if I go to the recommendations I don't have anything new happening fair.

[54:40] We'll talk about the high school in a little while but there's no additional recommendations.

[54:47] The Port Authority will know if that's going to happen and if it would go in as a match and an expenditure.

[54:59] This was the chart and when I produced the budget next week you'll see more of the charts that were handed out in between but this is the original one that I included of when we're when will the debt we have be retiring and the dates that I used were the ones that came off the original sheet.

[55:18] We're not the and you know from Davenport they were not the last payment it was when would it be the first year we could have for for spending and I will be double checking all of those two.

[55:35] But was not contemplated and is the the community wreck center because it's just too large of an item and then the high school is in a different situation because again we're talking about that project separately.

[55:54] CIP summary there it is again that 1.4 and then you add in the reserve account from the for the historical buildings at the tourism reserve account you've got 1.7 request.

[56:06] At the last time when I presented I didn't get into too much of the priorities of the utilities and Mr. Reigns and Mr. Dawson provided some additional information.

[56:17] So the items that are highlighted and yellow that we're already included in year one are the ones that we are recommending the funding for and that's a two page long document because there's so many different projects and the total spend would be just over 1.1 million dollars.

[56:41] Yes and that is including that's there are projects that are already underway and that's why they've got carry over money and then that would be continuing them as well as some new projects.

[57:05] And are the ones that equal the one point. Yes and this is new so I will make sure I send those two I mean this whole thing will be posted but I send those two pages to you also that you can see which ones were the priority items.

[57:26] Yes thank you for point out so FMR are for two of the projects which removes them from having to be a capital line item.

[57:43] That's what about the seven points that the top one the 120,000.

[57:52] That's done okay so can you when you do that can you just have the ones that are green totaled in addition so because this shows the 1.3 million almost 1.4 but it's only a million.

[58:06] Right. Thank you. I will put in the sub total which we'll reduce for the FMRR and I'll also note the ones that have already been done.

[58:17] So where we are tonight the March 1st we're here for the public hearing I think it's great that we have such a wonderful turnout for the community talk about what they'd like to see and capital projects.

[58:29] As the chair said we're not making any decisions tonight. Next Monday night will be presenting the recommended budget for the board and that will include I am sure some adjustments to the capital improvement recommendations.

[58:46] So I think I'm hoping if things have to be cut I'm hoping that we still have established priorities so that if our funding situation improves.

[58:58] We know which direction we won't have to sort of rehash now what do we do we'll know where we're going.

[59:03] Okay thank you Mr. Sealed we have any questions from the board before we open up the public hear it's a public.

[59:11] Okay ladies and gentlemen I will now open the floor to the general public this is for comments about the CIP and if you're going to talk can you kind of line up so that we can keep the stuff going so I know you're the first talk but we got several other people.

[59:30] So yeah I think so yeah so we need to keep this what you want you to just sit your name that's the real district.

[59:46] When you come up and keep your name and your management of district and that's what I start the brilliant time.

[59:56] Okay all set.

[59:58] Sean Chase uh where.

[1:00:00] District. Good evening, guys. As you can see, I brought some friends. My name is Sean Chase, I'm the President

[1:00:09] of the Gostre, Outlaws Youth Football and Chair, hearing Gostre. Our program serves over 150 boys and

[1:00:15] girls from age 5 through 14. We currently hold all of our practices at Woodville. The reason

[1:00:24] I'm here tonight is to play with you to leave the Woodville project in the capital budget

[1:00:28] for this year. I've been closely monitoring the Woodville upgrades since last year after speaking

[1:00:34] with Katie Lake and Greg Tongm. I reached out to Katie while a while back asking if there

[1:00:39] are any plans to fix the major issues at Woodville. She advised me that there are plans to improve

[1:00:44] the park, including lighting, the remaining fields, irrigation, proper drainage and using the

[1:00:50] covert piping and most importantly leveling the fields. As I said, we practice on those

[1:00:59] fields. However, there's no chance we can play any games. You see, the fields have such a crown on

[1:01:06] them that it's incredibly dangerous for us to have any actual games on there. If you actually

[1:01:12] look on the one side and look across, you only see half a person. It's that bad in there.

[1:01:20] So, the other issue is the ditches in between the fields. Not only do they retain water, they

[1:01:29] play host to some of the most fierce mosquitoes in all of the Austin. So when we have our home

[1:01:37] games, we have to move over to Peasley, look all of our equipment in a couple of trailers worth

[1:01:43] and have a full day's worth of actual games. Then we have to move everything back over to Woodville,

[1:01:52] simply because we cannot have games there. As you can imagine, that's quite a bit of work. If the

[1:02:03] fields were to be leveled out and proper drainage, put in place and proper irrigation set up,

[1:02:09] we could have a proper home for these kids. We would love to have an MOU investing in Woodville

[1:02:19] for goal posts, scoreboards, and even a concession stand, which could actually help the area as far

[1:02:30] as that because it could be a destination for events like jamborees, internaments that could

[1:02:35] easily improve the economic growth. Imagine the amount of people we could bring in such events.

[1:02:42] That could help the local businesses, including restaurants and hotels. Finally, I want to talk

[1:02:49] about the most likely thing that's going to happen. The school bus garage is complete. That means

[1:02:55] old-page field is probably going to be sold off. That means the kids over in the nights are

[1:03:00] not going to have a home. So improving the Woodville project is going to help them as well because they

[1:03:08] potentially would out have a place. Obviously, I'm out of time. Thank you guys for that. I have several

[1:03:16] more people that are willing to speak on that. Thanks, sir. Thanks, Speaker, please.

[1:03:27] I said your name, Magistair Altistic, please. Michael Seda.

[1:03:33] Good evening. Thank you. My name is Michael Seda. I'm a coach for the outlaws. I coach 12U last

[1:03:40] season. I coach 14U this season. I recently moved to September of 2020 due to the army.

[1:03:48] And so I just want to point out, I've been coaching for over 12 years and I find it imperative

[1:03:53] that we provide better support for our youth that are involved in sports by giving them the opportunity

[1:03:58] to train your own. I spent all my free time coaching and I've run a training facility here that I just

[1:04:04] open in February because of the development of our youth and our future leaders is a top priority

[1:04:10] for me. As a small community, we must embrace the challenges of adversity, lack of resources,

[1:04:16] and the growing demand for enhancing our community with facilities that will keep our children involved in

[1:04:21] sports. Sports not only keep our children healthy and fit, but they provide opportunities that teach our

[1:04:26] youth discipline, respect, and a true meaning of hard work. Nothing in this world is given out for free.

[1:04:32] We must work for what we want and we desire, and we are willing to put in that work necessary to

[1:04:38] help the loss there in our youth growth. This will make us an elite competitor. So college scouts want

[1:04:43] to come out and recruit our athletes, participation in sports is a privilege and our athletes have earned

[1:04:48] that opportunity to compete with the very best. Sports are only, excuse me, sports are the only thing

[1:04:54] that some of our athletes forward to on a daily basis while keeping them out of trouble. Last year,

[1:05:00] Gloster High School had 390 students graduate and only 9, I say 9 committed to play college at

[1:05:06] the collegiate level. This is 0.02 percent. Think about that, 0.02 percent of the graduates. Due to

[1:05:14] the lack of resources and developmental programs for athletes in Gloster, we lost many more athletes

[1:05:20] to the surrounding counties having better programs and facilities. For these reasons, I opened up the

[1:05:25] training facility for athletes. Our community has some amazing, talented children at all levels,

[1:05:32] and we continuously see our athletes go to other counties to play all sports because we simply

[1:05:36] do not provide the facilities to allow them to be the best they can be. And this is sad.

[1:05:41] This is why I chose the team up with Body by D and provide that opportunity to fit these athletes

[1:05:45] to continue to grow year round. As leaders in the community, it is your responsibility to protect

[1:05:50] our children at all costs. I understand that budget constraints often cost projects to fall

[1:05:55] off the radar and get put on the back burner, but this woodville project shouldn't be one of those.

[1:06:01] I ask, what is truly the mission and what is truly the focus for our youth is their focus.

[1:06:07] As stated by Mr. Sean Chase, we are asking for the leveling of the field and proper drainage to be

[1:06:12] completed while the community works together getting a scoreboard, concessions, concessions,

[1:06:17] stans and field goal posts. I appreciate your time today and I ask that you consider what is

[1:06:21] morally right. How important is the future of our children? Thank you, sir.

[1:06:32] Good evening, Chairman, council members. My name is Estevon Kovieto and I'm here to speak to you about the

[1:06:36] woodville project. To get you to know me a little bit better, I am an active duty member and I am also

[1:06:42] part of the athletic director with Board of Laws to help us. I am currently stationed down at

[1:06:48] Joint Base and the youth. I have been living in Glossar for over two years and one of the questions I

[1:06:53] always asked is why did I choose to live in Glossar? Glossar feels like home to us. It feels like the

[1:06:58] small town in Texas where we grow up. But the main deciding factor was the schools. We are doing my

[1:07:05] research on the schools here in Glossar. I found nothing but positive reviews and great feedback from

[1:07:08] the community. In the two years we have been here, my family and I have been trying to work with the

[1:07:13] community of Glossar. One of those ways is through youth sports. My children are currently playing

[1:07:19] with the great organization known as the Glossar Allows. This organization has in my opinion put the

[1:07:27] children of Glossar and the surrounding counties in cities at the top of their priority list. They just don't

[1:07:32] teach them football. They mentor and it's still great discipline, characteristics and value

[1:07:36] into each player. They have been building a community for our youth to participate in recreational

[1:07:41] sports over at the Woodville Park. The Glossar Allows are not the only organization that used the Woodville

[1:07:47] Park as well. There are other organizations that use it for other sports. There are other activities

[1:07:52] that go on over. Our youth is a future of Glossar and for our youth to be successful we need to

[1:07:57] start investing in them. That's why I believe that the Woodville Project is a good step in the

[1:08:02] right direction for the future of the youth of Gloss and for Glossar. Thank you for your time.

[1:08:08] Thank you sir. Thank you for your service to the country.

[1:08:17] Thank you for your time. There's the board. David Davidson, pretty sure I'm pet's worth. I just moved

[1:08:22] to a boat at Peasley, so I think it's worth for me if I'm wrong.

[1:08:25] Look, I'm gonna come here like the first three gentlemen, just come up here and talk. All right,

[1:08:32] I'm in here. From the military brought me to this area, I love this area just like Esteban

[1:08:39] to sit. It reminds me home. All right, so I'm raising two kids in this county now. I put them through

[1:08:48] sports the entire time. We need to, as parents, push our children to do things to be active,

[1:08:56] to be involved. And if we don't have athletic programs to help these kids along, to give them

[1:09:02] something to do, keep their mind going and not let them be idle. We're losing out. We're losing these

[1:09:08] children to across the bridge. They're leaving here at a rapid rate to find other programs to go to

[1:09:15] because we can't give them the opportunity to do it here. We have the opportunity now. We have

[1:09:21] this land that was given to us in the county that's been developed and worked on. It needs help. It needs

[1:09:27] fixed up. Trust any outlaws in any other organization like Bay Stars, and even GYF when it was first,

[1:09:35] our time was given to us to go down there after the tornado hit Page area. We went down. We worked

[1:09:43] our tails off. We worked on that. Our sweat. Based our sweat. Give us something back. Give us

[1:09:51] something to give these kids a given an opportunity. Let them prosper. Let them develop. Let them be what

[1:10:01] they want to be. Stop holding them back by just giving them my new places to do things. My new times

[1:10:08] to do these things. The outlaws of organization and Bay Stars and itself will go out of their way

[1:10:16] to help any child do anything they want to do. What I ask you as a board is don't take these funds away,

[1:10:24] give them to these kids. Teach these kids you are here for them so we can keep teaching them as coaches

[1:10:31] and mentors to develop as young adults to go on and be great thanks. Don't take this away,

[1:10:39] give it to them. That's all I have to say thank you. Thank you sir.

[1:10:43] Hi, my name is Jessica Chavez and I am in the Wear Academy. I'm not Wear Academy. Sorry,

[1:10:57] the Wear District. I had quite a few things that I wanted to say but I feel like the last three

[1:11:04] speakers covered a lot of them except for the fact that our youth have lost a lot. Our youth

[1:11:10] have been through things that we will never be able to relate to as children. We have the pandemic,

[1:11:17] we have the closing of businesses. We have the closing of activities that they're able to access.

[1:11:25] We have the lack of sports in middle school and high school. As a family that's been in the military

[1:11:32] and moved all over the country for the last 20 years, I have seen every bit of this country and this

[1:11:38] is an area that we are significantly lacking in. Our children, if it would be okay if they would

[1:11:45] stand up, our youth are important. Stand up, youth come on kids. Right here, this is our future.

[1:11:53] You know, we're staying here. We move to Gloucester. We love this county. We love the people. We are

[1:11:59] leaving our extended families to stay here because we love it so much. This is our future right here

[1:12:04] and don't cut the woodville funding. Please, we have to invest in our future. We have to show our

[1:12:09] kids that they're worth it, that we believe that they're worth it. I think they've earned it. Thank you.

[1:12:14] Thank you.

[1:12:25] Are there any other individuals that would like to talk to us about the CIP plan tonight?

[1:12:29] Ms. Croner, any emails or phone calls? No, Mr. Chair. Okay, if there are no other

[1:12:40] comments from the citizens, I will close public hearing and open up the questions comments for the board.

[1:12:47] Board members, anything from Ms. Deel? Mr. Hudson. Normally, we don't ask the citizens

[1:12:58] questions, and I'm not asking the question, but I'd like some emails if you would.

[1:13:04] What sports are the children of the youth leaving the county fourth and what other type of

[1:13:10] activities? To please on answer to my, I'd also more of a send an email please. The other thing would be

[1:13:19] what lack of sports to the middle school. I mean, where are we lacking sports in the middle school?

[1:13:24] Same thing. And please, I'm asking questions, because I'd like to be educated myself,

[1:13:29] having kids have gone through the school, and normally, I wasn't trying to be disrespectful to any of

[1:13:36] you all by not taking your answer now, we just don't normally get questions back from you. So,

[1:13:43] that's we're just trying to follow protocol. That's the only reason for that. But one thing that I want to

[1:13:50] say about this, and this doesn't concern with the park, years ago, Mr. Crisco and Dr. Orther,

[1:14:02] and I were on the board, Mr. James, we increased taxes so we could update the school bus fleet.

[1:14:13] That's gone away. And, you know, it's the problem that we have with the budget our

[1:14:20] year, that something that we've made put in the budget to perpetually change and improve the buses,

[1:14:27] now we're using that money elsewhere. We need to look at getting back into the system, and I know we

[1:14:35] through our community, we just gave them, they were able to get a lot of buses, but we need to get back

[1:14:42] into the system of improving the buses and getting rid of the old buses and fleet.

[1:14:50] Jim, any other comments? I will, I will make a comment myself. I look at my own personal background,

[1:14:56] when I was growing up, I couldn't play football because I had asked for...

[1:15:00] We're pretty bad, but I play baseball, and baseball got me through a life as a kid. I understand

[1:15:07] the value of sports. I lived. I drank, I ate baseball 24-7, all the way through high school.

[1:15:13] So I understand the value of sports to kids. We want to do what we can for woodville Park.

[1:15:20] We know a lot of that work was done by volunteers, and we appreciate that. We understand the value of sports.

[1:15:27] When you look across the river at your county and see the facilities there, it's just amazing.

[1:15:31] I wish we had the resources to do what they have in your county, but we don't.

[1:15:36] But certainly, I'm hoping the board will look favorably to keep this item because we know how sports sports are to kids.

[1:15:43] I've been there, done that, and I'm actually going to be coaching my son, literally, starting Thursday.

[1:15:50] In your county, though, because that's where they live. So Mr. Crisco.

[1:15:55] Yes, there's a lot of conversation that still needs to go on.

[1:16:00] And I applaud you all for coming out tonight and taking part in this process.

[1:16:05] As we get the budget presented to us and start working on the budget, these items on this capital improvement plan along with that budget,

[1:16:15] they'll all get massaged out and we'll work through that, and pay for what we can afford to pay for when we get to budget adoption.

[1:16:23] So please stay engaged. Please send us the information. Mr. Hudson requested to the board.

[1:16:28] To the board. To the board.

[1:16:30] To the board.

[1:16:31] And we've got to figure something out here because like people have said, there's going to be some stuff happening at the page middle school site in the future.

[1:16:40] So please stay engaged. We're not making any decisions tonight that decision is forthcoming.

[1:16:46] So just keep on us. Thank you.

[1:16:49] Mr.

[1:16:52] I was just going to say if you don't know who are email addresses or just go to the Gloucester VA dot info and all of our email addresses are in there so you can look us up and.

[1:17:01] Or just say BOS.

[1:17:04] BOS all seven of us.

[1:17:08] Mr. Hudson.

[1:17:10] One other thing. I appreciate bringing youth out here.

[1:17:16] I was very fortunate to play sports in college and my three kids.

[1:17:23] Graduates have lost their ball played. So I know the importance.

[1:17:27] And the one thing for the youth.

[1:17:32] You all need to look at this and see that your parents are out here trying to make a better life for y'all.

[1:17:39] And you all need to remember that when you have your own kids.

[1:17:43] You need to stay active in the community. Now back for the parents.

[1:17:47] This is something.

[1:17:49] Woodville Park the fields the crown at the field where we've all seen pictures.

[1:17:55] Come back out to the budget hearings. Come back out to the other things and look at the budget.

[1:18:01] And don't just stay narrow on Woodville Park.

[1:18:07] Since I've been on the since the three of us have been on the board. I know that far.

[1:18:11] And I know the rest of the guys also.

[1:18:14] When it comes time for budget there's apathy all around.

[1:18:19] And I would like to get the citizens involved in the budget.

[1:18:23] The whole budget just like y'all are involved in Woodville Park.

[1:18:27] There's more to the whole county than just Woodville.

[1:18:31] So I mean I would like to see everybody involved.

[1:18:34] That's my request of y'all.

[1:18:36] Thank you.

[1:18:37] Mr. Hedrick.

[1:18:40] Hello all.

[1:18:42] I can't tell you how impressed I am with our citizens here in the county.

[1:18:48] As an old fellow that sets here and looks a lot of really young faces.

[1:18:54] I've been through the same thing that you folks are going through.

[1:18:58] My kids went through school here in the county.

[1:19:01] I coach soccer, softball.

[1:19:04] A lot of the sports that my grandson played with.

[1:19:09] One of your football teams.

[1:19:11] And I'm very sympathetic to all your issues.

[1:19:17] But again, as my colleagues have pointed out.

[1:19:22] Budget processes are really tough.

[1:19:25] And we've got a lot of things to look at.

[1:19:30] But my heart's with you.

[1:19:32] I just want you to know that.

[1:19:34] Thank you.

[1:19:35] Mr. Bezani.

[1:19:36] So some of you may recall.

[1:19:38] We had about two years ago.

[1:19:40] We had a second amendment.

[1:19:41] Two second amendment resolutions.

[1:19:43] And we had not only this room filled.

[1:19:45] But well over five or six hundred people outside this courthouse.

[1:19:49] If we can have the same kind of.

[1:19:52] You know.

[1:19:54] Participation.

[1:19:56] Participation.

[1:19:57] That's where that's where the decisions are made during budget deliberation.

[1:20:01] We're not going to make a decision tonight.

[1:20:03] About Woodville or anything else.

[1:20:05] But we need you guys to tell us.

[1:20:07] Tell us what's important to you.

[1:20:09] If all we hear are crickets during a board meeting.

[1:20:12] Then we're just going to take it and say, okay, what's important.

[1:20:15] I try to do a newsletter.

[1:20:17] I've got one forthcoming.

[1:20:18] I'm going to do it after we do this meeting tonight.

[1:20:20] But and that's the way I reach out to about 9,000 people in the county.

[1:20:24] But again, participate in government, participate.

[1:20:27] This is important to everybody.

[1:20:28] When we talk about the debt.

[1:20:30] How this may affect you in the future.

[1:20:32] That's important to you as well.

[1:20:33] Sports for youth.

[1:20:35] That's important as well.

[1:20:37] Come out.

[1:20:38] You know, I'm hoping that we can do a.

[1:20:40] A town hall.

[1:20:42] We will always do a town hall.

[1:20:43] Okay.

[1:20:44] So we'll do it.

[1:20:45] We'll do a town hall.

[1:20:46] Come out to that and speak up.

[1:20:47] Right.

[1:20:48] Speak up.

[1:20:49] Thank you.

[1:20:50] Mr. Gibson.

[1:20:51] Yes.

[1:20:52] I'll be brief.

[1:20:54] Well, a lot more things on the agenda here.

[1:20:56] But I just wanted to thank all of you for being here.

[1:20:59] Both parents and students.

[1:21:01] You do so much positive work in our community.

[1:21:04] And the value of the lessons learned in sports are are so important.

[1:21:08] So I really appreciate you all being here.

[1:21:11] And we are all very sympathetic to what you are requesting.

[1:21:14] And we're hopeful that that can be done.

[1:21:17] Just speaking to Mr. Hudson's questions about the sports that are missing in the middle school level.

[1:21:22] There are no football teams for page and piezyly.

[1:21:26] And I know that there are some discussions that looking in forming a joint football team for page and piezyly with the school board.

[1:21:33] And so that is a gap that's not being addressed.

[1:21:36] And then as far as sports of where kids are traveling.

[1:21:39] All the sports.

[1:21:40] Baseball football soccer basketball.

[1:21:43] And that's that's disappointing because we need those kids to stay here.

[1:21:48] But we'll go football.

[1:21:58] The child is leaving to go play a sport that we have.

[1:22:03] Is it because of ability or what?

[1:22:06] I mean, there's reasons because I know I'm looking at base stars out here.

[1:22:09] They have quite a few people that have gone to play at different levels that I know the parents and the kids themselves.

[1:22:17] So are they leaving to better themselves?

[1:22:20] For why are they leaving?

[1:22:21] I mean, my kids wrote in Matthews.

[1:22:23] They wrote in Gloucester both.

[1:22:25] So there's reasons why kids are going to go.

[1:22:29] Yes, there's sports that we don't have.

[1:22:32] But I'd just like to know, you know, we don't have a cross.

[1:22:35] We did, but we don't.

[1:22:36] So I understand there's some of them.

[1:22:38] But I'd like to get a better idea of what are the other sports.

[1:22:41] But if a kid is leaving for a sport that we have.

[1:22:46] It's not really the fault of the county as much as it's maybe the organization or their leaving.

[1:22:52] So.

[1:22:53] Okay.

[1:22:54] And the other questions comments up.

[1:22:56] Yes, Mr. Smith.

[1:22:58] I just like to.

[1:22:59] Thank the opportunity.

[1:23:00] Just to thank all of you for coming tonight.

[1:23:02] All of the parents and all the children.

[1:23:07] It really makes a statement.

[1:23:10] And I heard one gentleman say earlier that

[1:23:15] they've lost, you know, a lot in the last two years or a whole lot.

[1:23:20] And they've lost a lot in discipline.

[1:23:23] And I know sports are definitely, you know, a discipline.

[1:23:26] And they've lost a lot in discipline.

[1:23:28] I deal with discipline every day.

[1:23:30] And believe me, I know they've lost a lot.

[1:23:32] So I, you know, I've just applaud you guys for coming out.

[1:23:38] And voice in your concerns and as Mr. Bazaar says,

[1:23:42] I do agree with him here.

[1:23:45] I know he said, why?

[1:23:47] That's recorded.

[1:23:48] That's recorded.

[1:23:49] I do agree with him.

[1:23:50] Just remember, then stop here tonight.

[1:23:53] Remember, I'll budget meetings.

[1:23:55] And please come out and force your concern.

[1:23:59] And being a pastor, I feel like I want to say amen.

[1:24:03] You know, Mr. Smith, you should say,

[1:24:06] with us ramling on.

[1:24:08] They're missing opportunity to finish homework.

[1:24:10] So that's something to complete there.

[1:24:12] Okay.

[1:24:13] Okay.

[1:24:14] And with that, if I see no other hands raised,

[1:24:16] I'm going to close this section of the agenda.

[1:24:20] And I'm going to take a brief break.

[1:24:22] So people could leave.

[1:24:24] And the next item is going to be a broadband update.

[1:24:26] So five ten minute break.

[1:24:32] Thank you.

[1:25:02] Thank you.

[1:25:32] We'll back here with our agenda.

[1:25:44] And our next item is a scheduled presentation.

[1:25:48] Mr. Steel on broadband update.

[1:25:50] This is just going to be a brief presentation.

[1:25:53] I'm just going to sit where I am.

[1:25:56] Trisha's going to be bringing up a picture that was of our special guest

[1:26:00] who came to town last week.

[1:26:03] And we had our four chair and vice chair down the street.

[1:26:08] And at Sweet Tooth Cafe and the building is owned by Nambu who's in the picture.

[1:26:13] And he does.

[1:26:16] And he was very gracious to allow open broadband to put their equipment on the building for free,

[1:26:24] which allowed the main street free Wi-Fi.

[1:26:28] The woman in the red and black is Judy Roe, who is in charge of broadband for Matthews County.

[1:26:35] And she is like, they don't have somebody like me.

[1:26:38] She's it as the volunteer.

[1:26:40] And just working all the time.

[1:26:42] And then that tall gentleman there in the middle,

[1:26:45] Senator Warner came to town to talk to us about,

[1:26:48] you know, broadband.

[1:26:50] And we also heard a lot about Ukraine too, which was very interesting.

[1:26:54] And I saw that was in the paper that he did that.

[1:26:56] It is other stocks too.

[1:26:58] So hearing about more money that might be coming down federal dollars.

[1:27:03] And that is something I emailed you all about last night that we're watching for.

[1:27:07] And hoping that we will take open broadband and take it a step further.

[1:27:12] And keep on going with fiber and things that because technology is never going to stop.

[1:27:17] You know, we're going to always need to keep up.

[1:27:20] Specifically to the last time that talks to you.

[1:27:23] I wanted to give you an update that we the open broadband sub-company that's working on the engineering for the four new polls.

[1:27:32] That is happening now.

[1:27:33] So we are hoping to go to the April BZA meeting and see if those polls will get approved.

[1:27:41] I've sent a letter to the schools into school board explaining that at the presentation to the board that it was recommended with the two and a half million dollars that the board is put into this project.

[1:27:54] And with a small amount of money that's going to be raised in revenue that the county not divide those proceeds.

[1:28:01] So that has gone out.

[1:28:04] And then I will be back with you all to talk about the MOA,

[1:28:08] the draft of that as soon as we can get the budget.

[1:28:11] Priorities are due the budget.

[1:28:13] At the same time, lots of equipment has arrived.

[1:28:17] Things are on schedule with both the ARPA and the body grant.

[1:28:22] So very, very pleased with how things are going.

[1:28:25] And still getting a whole lot of people calling and wanting to know when.

[1:28:28] And it's sooner every day.

[1:28:30] Okay.

[1:28:31] So I'm glad to answer any questions yet.

[1:28:32] Sure.

[1:28:33] Any questions from the steel on this topic?

[1:28:35] Mr. Chris Cal.

[1:28:36] Once we get the approval from the BZA, how long did those open broadband think it would take for them to get these new poles installed?

[1:28:43] The poles have already been constructed.

[1:28:46] So it's probably, I mean, they'll have to get the building permit and we're working on zoning and building permits and all that.

[1:28:53] We won't take long.

[1:28:54] It'll be more of making sure we have the MOA straight between the two boards.

[1:28:59] But there's no time line.

[1:29:02] Time line from.

[1:29:04] We haven't want to take them to get the poles up.

[1:29:06] If we were good to go today.

[1:29:08] All permits and hand, MOA's and hand.

[1:29:10] I'm going to take them to put those poles up.

[1:29:12] I don't think more than a couple weeks.

[1:29:14] Okay.

[1:29:15] And then they'll wait.

[1:29:16] It'll probably take two or three weeks getting the climbers here that do the other bigger poles.

[1:29:22] Because there's a repeaters.

[1:29:24] Okay.

[1:29:25] Any other questions from steel on this?

[1:29:27] Okay.

[1:29:28] We're going to move on to our regular agenda item.

[1:29:30] Item A11A discussion and or decision school boards.

[1:29:33] The quest for additional sales tax funding.

[1:29:35] Mr. Steel and Dr. Clinton.

[1:29:37] Yes.

[1:29:38] So at the last meeting we had a discussion.

[1:29:40] We had to request from the school board to consider providing the additional 15.5.

[1:29:47] Approximates funds that will be left unspoken for with the sales tax.

[1:29:53] And since that time.

[1:29:56] And in school board, Dr. Pondons here.

[1:29:59] And the representative.

[1:30:00] From Mosley's here, too. They went back and looked at the proposal of all the add-ons, all the add-alternates.

[1:30:09] And it was determined it was going to be quite expensive to have to draw two different versions.

[1:30:16] And it also was going to delay construction by having to draw two different versions.

[1:30:23] So you have a proposal that is in your board packet that you, again, may want to do some tweaking on so that the title and the motions and all that are consistent.

[1:30:35] But basically, it would not be easy to piecemeal all of the different options.

[1:30:45] So the school board and the school staff is hoping that the board will go ahead and appropriate or allocate as the resolution says.

[1:30:54] The balance of funds, nowhere in here does it talk about the total.

[1:30:59] So that would not be included on any of the scope of the works that go out.

[1:31:06] And obviously when they determine if it comes within bid because it's so questionable what the how much inflation is going to factor in.

[1:31:14] But, you know, they can, you will find out notice of when those bids come in.

[1:31:19] We're on this by the is letting you all know of them, the minute they're there they're open.

[1:31:25] So, Dr. Clements is here to answer any questions.

[1:31:30] So we have some people, why don't you all come up at the same time so that if we have questions we'll be able to ask you directly without you guys having to bounce back and forth.

[1:31:39] Yes, first of all, let me say good evening.

[1:31:41] Dr. Orth Mr. Hudson members of the board. Mr. Wilmont.

[1:31:46] Mr. Steele was prone and as has been articulated by Mr. Steele.

[1:31:54] And we're thankful for the opportunity to be before you again this evening.

[1:31:58] But we have had additional conversation related to, you know, the next steps work the Glossah High School Project.

[1:32:06] And I think we all know that, you know, time is of the essence.

[1:32:10] And the question keeps occurring consistently and trying to get a viable project that we can put out to bid as quickly as possible is of, I would say,

[1:32:20] Prime importance at this point in time.

[1:32:22] So Mr. Steele and she's been wonderful in terms of having ongoing dialogue with me about all of these things.

[1:32:29] And again, I always want to take the time to acknowledge that because we've had great conversation about, you know, what's occurring in terms of potential projects for the high school.

[1:32:38] And she shared with me the resolution that's previously, this currently in your board packet.

[1:32:43] And we started to take a look at that and we felt that there were some inherent challenges with that.

[1:32:48] Now, it has some conversation with Mr. Bazaarney. I know there have been some ongoing conversations.

[1:32:54] But in terms of trying to maximize the use of funding, long stories show it, I think, trying to work on the construction documents and a complete scope.

[1:33:06] And then looking at where that comes in and then being able to, I would say,

[1:33:14] Descope if we needed to is the best way to go in this process.

[1:33:23] The current way may put us at a disadvantage in terms of time development.

[1:33:31] Money that would be spent that would have no viable use.

[1:33:35] And that's one of the biggest concerns because of the way that the project may be going.

[1:33:42] And so I'm going to have Mr. Records come up and talk a little bit about, you know, what that means, Mr. Halsey is here.

[1:33:50] And hopefully, you know, what you will see from the request this evening is to give us the flexibility to go ahead and move with the alignment of funds.

[1:33:59] Get the construction documents out on the market.

[1:34:02] Get the prices back and then we can move from there because I think that's going to give us the overall best bang for the buck.

[1:34:10] And I agree with Mr. Steel, not having the prices in there give us an opportunity to see where things come back.

[1:34:17] And I think that's the most prudent at this point in time to deal with the potential amount of money that we have.

[1:34:24] I mean, you've already seen in some previous documents that we have what inflation can already look like.

[1:34:30] And we know with the way that the economy is going, we know with some of the world events that are happening time is critical.

[1:34:39] So I'm going to turn it over to my colleagues to give you some additional information.

[1:34:45] And hopefully we can, you know, move on from this evening with an approval and your support to be able to get this thing out.

[1:34:53] So I did that process so we can get this thing back and see what we're working with.

[1:34:58] So we can, you know, we can move forward. So I'm going to stop there and I'm going to turn it over to this point in time to Mr. Records.

[1:35:05] Okay, Mr. Records, good to see.

[1:35:08] Another.

[1:35:10] Thank you, Mr. Records.

[1:35:11] Thank you, Dr. Connis.

[1:35:12] Very nice to see you all as well.

[1:35:16] When Dr. Clement shared the resolution that you all have in your board packets, we are really immediately began discussion with our architect and staff at the school system.

[1:35:30] Because I was a bit concerned with some potentially unintended consequences that could be a part of that.

[1:35:37] I'm going to miss you all. Really hit on them with a broad brush and, you know, for us to, I think in concept, the idea of providing big alternates for our project is a fantastic one.

[1:35:51] It's one that helps us ensure that in the event that we do come in a little over budget for the entirety of the project that we have the ability to potentially cut some of those big alternates out as was done with the transportation center.

[1:36:07] As Dr. Clement mentioned, there's additional time and that additional time is approximately two months of time that it takes for our architectural and engineering designers to draw the plans in such a way that we could abide by the information that you have in your board packet.

[1:36:31] But we have to draw portions of our 260,000 square foot high school twice.

[1:36:38] So not only do we have two months of time and additional design fees associated with moving in that direction.

[1:36:46] Really the biggest part is the two months of inflationary pressures that we're going to see while we have delayed this process by going that round.

[1:36:57] Using simple, simple math, 12% inflation, 1% a month.

[1:37:04] I mean, we're talking about 600,000 dollars a month.

[1:37:08] So in this decision, as I shared with Dr. Clement's and the rest of the staff, is this is potentially a $2 million evaporation of funds for, as we know, the school that every day that we're not putting this project out to do.

[1:37:24] Day that we're not putting this project out to bid, inflation is killing us.

[1:37:30] And we had some documentation that I believe has been shared with the all that over the period of the last year.

[1:37:36] We've seen 19.7% inflation for non-residential construction.

[1:37:43] The student housing is here. He can certainly speak to that more.

[1:37:46] But we're hopeful that you will allocate the sales tax revenues that are expected to add to the scope of the project so that we can draw these plans.

[1:37:55] Finish drawing these plans one time. Nobody likes to do anything twice.

[1:38:00] Save money by getting the project out to bid sooner and us getting this fall rolling because we have a 24 to 30 month schedule.

[1:38:10] And with the really unprecedented economic times that we're in right now, you know, the contract.

[1:38:16] No one has a crystal ball, but contractors that are bidding work that takes 24 months who knows what type of, you know, cushion, if you will, they may put into their bids to deal with that.

[1:38:29] And I guess really one great example, I mean everybody knows that sheet of OSB plywood, the year and a half ago was $7.

[1:38:38] Three weeks ago was $36. I just pulled it up at Home Depot while we were sitting here and sharing with students.

[1:38:45] $59.

[1:38:47] So it's getting, it potentially is getting worse.

[1:38:52] And certainly my job here is to manage these projects under budget and deliver them on time.

[1:39:00] And I'm hopeful that you all will allocate the project so we can do this in this design the right way.

[1:39:09] Okay.

[1:39:10] Any questions that forward?

[1:39:11] We'd like to ask.

[1:39:12] Mr. Records.

[1:39:13] Dr. Clemsbisteele.

[1:39:15] Now, I believe that the resolution, if we want to modify it to deal with the way you're describing, it would be the part, therefore, being resolved right in my correct, that would have to be.

[1:39:34] Right.

[1:39:35] I think if you, if I was like, if I said proposal, I'm going to make sure that.

[1:39:39] Do you have that?

[1:39:40] I did have some.

[1:39:42] Mr. Wilma.

[1:39:43] Well, and I could do it, but I have a concern here.

[1:39:46] I don't know whether an allocation is an appropriation.

[1:39:51] And I don't know whether it's the Board of Supervisors intent to appropriate.

[1:39:55] The entire one cent tax for the next 40 years.

[1:40:00] Is it 40 years or 20 years for this or whether you want to allocate it.

[1:40:06] The resolution in your packet as you're all aware was based upon the proposition that we would bid out with the alternate.

[1:40:12] And then come back and decide how much to fund.

[1:40:16] Normally, your appropriation to the school system is done yearly.

[1:40:20] Normally, there's not an appropriation for 20 years.

[1:40:23] So although I understand and appreciate the school's desire to have a commitment by the Board of Supervisors to have this funding stream devoted to the

[1:40:34] the Goster High School renovation.

[1:40:36] And that may be absolutely necessary and appropriate.

[1:40:39] And that's your prerogative to do that.

[1:40:41] I don't want anyone here to be under a false impression of what you're doing or what you're not doing.

[1:40:49] So I don't have precise language in part because it should have been done long before now.

[1:40:57] But reality came into play and we weren't able to do that.

[1:41:01] But secondly, in order to draft good language, I didn't know what you want.

[1:41:05] Do you want to appropriate the next 20 years worth of 1 cent tax?

[1:41:10] Or do you want to indicate that it's your intent currently to utilize that and wait for the bids to come in and then decide how much to operate.

[1:41:19] That's my prerogative.

[1:41:21] That's yes.

[1:41:22] Yes.

[1:41:23] So how do we need to change this?

[1:41:26] Well, resolution indicate your present intent to, well, and not appropriate the funds for the purpose of going out to bid on this expanded scope of the

[1:41:39] Glot Gloster High School renovation.

[1:41:41] Then you receive the bids and then you decide how much to appropriate.

[1:41:44] Well, they, well, I'm sorry Chris.

[1:41:46] So are we with the intent of the school board to get the money?

[1:41:55] All we need to do is an allocation.

[1:41:57] My problem is the word allocated.

[1:41:59] That could be used.

[1:42:00] That could be construed to mean appropriate.

[1:42:03] Well, Mr. Wordsmith.

[1:42:04] So what word do we use?

[1:42:06] Well, I would resolve to go out to bid on the expanded scope of the high school rent up.

[1:42:13] That's all I would do.

[1:42:15] But here's the problem with that as we go out with the extent with the intent.

[1:42:20] They draw up the extended plans.

[1:42:24] And there's no decision or backing from the board supervisors.

[1:42:30] Well, at least, at least I think where this was coming from and at the looking at the decision by the school board is that they wanted some kind of assurance that the other, that the additional $15 million would be theirs.

[1:42:49] And you can do that.

[1:42:51] You could appropriate that song.

[1:42:53] But once you appropriate the song, you can't unappropriate.

[1:42:56] But and you feel that allocate is similar to appropriate.

[1:43:01] In some minds, I certainly representing both bodies.

[1:43:05] Wouldn't want there to be down the road.

[1:43:07] Some kind of a disagreement about what was intended.

[1:43:11] And you know good and well, the school board board supervisor is not going to have a decision.

[1:43:15] Oh, they always get along with things.

[1:43:17] So, goodbye.

[1:43:18] What would you recommend?

[1:43:20] Well, that that the board of supervisors supports the expanded scope to go out to bid.

[1:43:27] Period.

[1:43:28] Period.

[1:43:29] Basically, period.

[1:43:30] So do we need a resolution or do we need to change the change of resolution?

[1:43:35] Change the resolution to change the resolution.

[1:43:37] To change it from a base bids and alternates to support the going out to bid with the expanded scope of the high school reneas.

[1:43:47] I don't think you need a dollar amount.

[1:43:52] Because you're not appropriating.

[1:43:54] Do you have that word source?

[1:43:56] No, sir.

[1:43:57] Would you want to call it a resolution of support instead of a resolution to allocate.

[1:44:02] And then, as you said, like, take the back that was second.

[1:44:06] There'd be a, therefore, a result goes off with the board of supervisors.

[1:44:11] And we have another meeting next week.

[1:44:13] Can you wordsmith that for us?

[1:44:14] And we can discard on that.

[1:44:16] I don't want to delay the process.

[1:44:18] Yeah.

[1:44:19] Yeah.

[1:44:20] I would agree.

[1:44:21] I think if the majority of the board is in support of going out to bid with the entire project.

[1:44:28] Then I would say pass it tonight and just say that, you know, therefore, be a resolve that the Gluster Board of supervisors

[1:44:35] supports the Gluster School System in bidding the extended scope for the Gluster High School renovation project.

[1:44:44] It goes out to bid and it comes back and then we see how much it is.

[1:44:49] So then you would take out the quantum too.

[1:44:52] Ah, I would, but that's just my opinion.

[1:44:55] Legally legally, which is really what I should limit myself to.

[1:44:59] Yeah.

[1:45:00] So it, you could allocate, you could appropriate, although you generally only appropriate yearly. You don't generally

[1:45:06] appropriate 20 years worth of fun. Right. Right. And so that, that was, didn't want anyone to think that was what happened

[1:45:12] tonight when we walked out of the room. Schools, I, I, I was the schools I would think you did that. And if I were

[1:45:19] somewhere to you, I would think you didn't do that. So I didn't want that. But the resolution itself, specifically

[1:45:26] the reference is 15.5 million dollars of additional debt. I see nowhere in here where we, as a board of supervisors,

[1:45:33] are committing to the resolution of your packet. Isn't the one I may finish? Yes.

[1:45:39] I see nowhere in this resolution that commits us to allocate 105 million the 20 years of anticipated sales tax revenue towards this project.

[1:45:49] I'm not sure I understand where you're. Because the resolution in your packet isn't the one they're talking about.

[1:45:56] What are we talking about? Well, the resolution, the one that's being proposed is the title, a resolution to allocate schools tax revenue,

[1:46:04] which doesn't jive with the body of the one that's in your packet, which talks about a base bid and alternates.

[1:46:10] The schools have explained why they can't do that, why that's not feasible. So my point initially was the title of this resolution isn't what,

[1:46:20] isn't what, isn't jive doesn't sync with the body of it. I'm now told that the body of it won't work.

[1:46:27] It won't work to do a base bid and alternates, which I understand and I appreciate.

[1:46:32] But when you have a resolution to allocate schools tax revenue, if the body says that, that could be deemed an appropriation.

[1:46:40] And that's my problem. The one as worded it, it's not how long it fixed up Mr. Wilma, how we fix it so that we don't, we're not committed to this.

[1:46:48] I think Mr. Steel had.

[1:46:50] Well, you're the attorney, I wouldn't really, I'm sorry, I'm not going to be smart for your ability.

[1:46:55] That was an insult to call me the attorney, so I'm fine.

[1:47:00] I'm relying on counselor to tell us what the board should be.

[1:47:06] I can work in that right now.

[1:47:08] Let's do it.

[1:47:10] And if I can say one thing, I think that we're all trying to get to the same thing.

[1:47:15] What we need is a commitment from you all to allow us to go out and put the documents out in the full scope.

[1:47:25] Yes.

[1:47:26] When it comes back, then we'll be able to then determine what that amount is with what the potential funding that we have

[1:47:33] and then determine how we can proceed.

[1:47:35] So I had a meeting for about an hour and a half with the good superintendent, Mr. Records as well,

[1:47:41] to make me comfortable with what we're about to do here.

[1:47:46] At first I was not comfortable, but Dr. Clemens and Mr. Records made me comfortable.

[1:47:54] I pontificated a little bit. Last time we were here, but I now and convinced that,

[1:48:00] and we still have that risk and we still have the risk that we won't get the revenues.

[1:48:04] And I other concern is that if once we determine quantum,

[1:48:08] the monthly or the yearly payments will have to make for the renovation,

[1:48:12] any additional sales taxes coming in will not go to the school system.

[1:48:17] It will be held in the account for any other emergent issues that may come about for the future.

[1:48:23] So let's say we get $6 million a year one year.

[1:48:26] We could put aside a million dollars and pay the initial renovation debt and that's it.

[1:48:29] And then set aside the other excess funds for a rainy day.

[1:48:33] Which will go to the schools, right? All of it has to go to the schools by law,

[1:48:37] but just don't hand it over and say, do what you want with the excess.

[1:48:42] I don't agree to do that.

[1:48:44] So let's just pay the debt, the initial debt associated with the renovation,

[1:48:48] whatever that debt might be, close to whatever it's going to be.

[1:48:51] I don't want to put out numbers because these contractors out there listening to you.

[1:48:54] And I've already had a discussion on that.

[1:48:56] So this was on it yesterday.

[1:48:59] We would have no problem coming back and asking you for any excess over what you are thinking about that you were raised.

[1:49:05] I know you would.

[1:49:06] I know you would.

[1:49:07] I want you to know that.

[1:49:08] So yes.

[1:49:09] We're going to work with you, but okay.

[1:49:10] Believe me, if there's more money to be generated from it and it goes to schools,

[1:49:14] we will come back and ask you for it.

[1:49:16] That's something I'm talking about.

[1:49:18] If the one to check for later, what they words,

[1:49:20] if the one to check for later,

[1:49:21] if the one to check for later,

[1:49:22] if the one to check for later,

[1:49:24] if the one to check for later,

[1:49:25] there.

[1:49:26] No, because let's say we have a shortfall.

[1:49:29] Let's say we have a shortfall in revenues.

[1:49:31] We can use that excess money.

[1:49:32] We put it to make the difference.

[1:49:35] Okay.

[1:49:36] So look, Mr. Where are we in terms of it?

[1:49:38] I mean, they are like in two minutes.

[1:49:40] What?

[1:49:41] Two minutes.

[1:49:42] Two minutes.

[1:49:43] Suppose that.

[1:49:44] Touchable.

[1:49:46] What in your mind constitute a major renovation?

[1:49:53] That's a great question.

[1:49:54] Mr. Hall.

[1:49:56] We just talked about that.

[1:50:00] And there are some specifics in terms of scope of work that.

[1:50:04] Okay, Mr. Hall.

[1:50:06] Yes.

[1:50:07] Come on up, Mr. Hall.

[1:50:09] We would classify major renovation just not dealing with just ceilings of lighting.

[1:50:14] Not necessarily major renovation will be taking care of finishes.

[1:50:19] Case work that's failed, it's falling apart.

[1:50:22] Door hardware.

[1:50:24] Replacing walls and a fail in terms of finishes.

[1:50:27] Reconfiguring some walls, so it's a better instructional space.

[1:50:29] That's what we would classify as a major renovation.

[1:50:32] Touching almost every surface was in the building.

[1:50:34] So that when the project is completed, that's the building that you have confidence

[1:50:38] that you don't have to read deal with anything.

[1:50:40] Has it in routine maintenance for the next 25 years?

[1:50:43] Okay.

[1:50:44] So.

[1:50:45] Well, Mr. Hall wants to work on that.

[1:50:48] I'm talking about another school.

[1:50:52] What would constitute a major renovation?

[1:50:55] Short of completely remodeling.

[1:51:00] Indeed, same definition.

[1:51:02] So based on your answer, an AC unit would not be major renovation.

[1:51:10] Yep.

[1:51:11] I'd be placing AC units in the routine maintenance.

[1:51:14] So what is the smallest item other than just doors and walls

[1:51:22] and case work and everything that would constitute major renovation?

[1:51:28] I know that's an odd.

[1:51:30] It's a question, but I'm just trying to say,

[1:51:33] because it's been brought up that if in the event that X was the fails.

[1:51:38] Right?

[1:51:39] They are conditioning or something else that we could use those funds there.

[1:51:42] So technically there's nothing you could think of other than a remodel of a school

[1:51:49] that would constitute a major renovation based on the,

[1:51:53] basically the verbiage of what it says as a major renovation.

[1:51:57] You could do a major renovation of a CTE suite.

[1:52:00] You know, if the targeted piece within a building,

[1:52:03] I mean, you can certainly do.

[1:52:04] We do major renovations of administrations all the time where we were trying to reconfigure

[1:52:09] so that we get the sequence into the building.

[1:52:12] Like it needs to be in terms of security.

[1:52:14] So we might take two classrooms.

[1:52:17] We're starting a project now in a locality where we're going to be doing that.

[1:52:22] The existing administration is in board of the building,

[1:52:25] not unlike it is cost for high school.

[1:52:28] So we're going to move that administration to take up two classrooms

[1:52:32] and kind of do a room swap within the building.

[1:52:35] That space where it will be common at the new administration

[1:52:39] would be at major renovation of that space.

[1:52:42] And we might not be doing as much.

[1:52:44] Okay.

[1:52:46] We've just gone through the last year of a verbiage issue

[1:52:55] where we had a difference of opinion on verbiage.

[1:52:59] And I think of what you just said as a remodel versus a major renovation.

[1:53:05] You're saying a major renovation of an area.

[1:53:09] But I'm just sitting there thinking if it's a major renovation,

[1:53:14] it would have to be x% of a building for it to be a major renovation.

[1:53:20] Versus not just a renovation of a certain area.

[1:53:27] So that was still the place.

[1:53:29] Yes.

[1:53:30] So that's why I'm trying to figure out.

[1:53:32] There's not really any definite industry definitions of what that is.

[1:53:37] But if you realize, I'm sure you've been following what we've experienced

[1:53:41] last year.

[1:53:42] There wasn't any true guidance and it was basically what somebody felt

[1:53:46] verbiage was versus somebody else.

[1:53:48] Sure.

[1:53:49] And so I look at it and I'd ask Dr. Clemens.

[1:53:54] What would constitute a major renovation?

[1:53:59] And if it's setting here.

[1:54:02] If the school board were to come to me or come to us and say,

[1:54:06] but we want to do remodel these two classrooms.

[1:54:11] I would look at them and say, no, that's not going to be a major renovation.

[1:54:14] Even if you think it's a, because it's a major renovation of that section.

[1:54:18] Right.

[1:54:19] So are we making a major renovation to the high school?

[1:54:21] Yes.

[1:54:22] Yes.

[1:54:23] Yes.

[1:54:24] But yeah.

[1:54:25] It might be like that.

[1:54:26] The high school of the gymnasium.

[1:54:27] Yeah.

[1:54:28] They turned it to a center.

[1:54:29] Yeah.

[1:54:30] That's a library.

[1:54:31] It's a gymnasium turning to library.

[1:54:32] Well, sort of the, I don't know what they call the buzz.

[1:54:35] Kind of a cool set.

[1:54:36] Yeah.

[1:54:37] But I guess my point of the remaining ex amount of dollars, whatever it is,

[1:54:41] that we may get over the 15 million or 16 million, whatever it is.

[1:54:47] What would we be able to do with a major renovation?

[1:54:51] What would we be able to use that money for?

[1:54:54] I don't see what we'd be able to use it for other than a major renovation.

[1:55:01] Right.

[1:55:02] I guess, you know, so we've, we've, we've heard it around here about air conditions or whatever else we might do.

[1:55:11] But I don't think that would qualify.

[1:55:13] You just said it.

[1:55:14] So you don't think it would be.

[1:55:17] So that's what I was getting that.

[1:55:19] And I know it was around about and waiting for Ted to finish.

[1:55:22] Right.

[1:55:23] That's what we got.

[1:55:25] Yeah.

[1:55:26] So you don't really other than a major renovation to do it.

[1:55:30] So really there wouldn't be a lot we could do in the county with the ex present and present.

[1:55:36] There are CIPs that fall into that category.

[1:55:40] Such it.

[1:55:41] Because it's new construction or renovation.

[1:55:45] So the athletic complex.

[1:55:47] That could potentially be as well as the body top.

[1:55:51] The 1973 wing.

[1:55:53] I would imagine that would be a major renovation.

[1:55:56] There we go.

[1:55:57] Okay.

[1:55:58] Okay.

[1:55:59] Yes.

[1:56:00] Yeah.

[1:56:01] Tell us what you agree.

[1:56:02] I thought about the question in the past.

[1:56:05] And I was thinking more along the lines of some threshold financial outlay for a project to constitute a major renovation.

[1:56:14] But as, as the gentleman's indicated, there's not indicated.

[1:56:17] There's no legal definition unfortunately of what constitutes a major renovation or new construction.

[1:56:25] But I was well.

[1:56:27] Yeah.

[1:56:28] I think I.

[1:56:29] Okay.

[1:56:30] Don't go there.

[1:56:31] Don't go there.

[1:56:32] Don't go there.

[1:56:33] But I was thinking to $500,000.

[1:56:35] What?

[1:56:36] There's no.

[1:56:37] There's no.

[1:56:38] There's no.

[1:56:40] Okay.

[1:56:41] Let's see if I can go in on you construction.

[1:56:45] Is there any definition other than a ground up foundation up construction that would fit?

[1:56:55] And you construction?

[1:56:56] There's something less that would fit you construction?

[1:57:01] I think it could be sidewalk.

[1:57:03] I mean, I'd add.

[1:57:05] Your athletic fields at your school specific.

[1:57:08] Adding a bus loop to a.

[1:57:10] To a school facility that doesn't have a bus loop adding a parking lot.

[1:57:13] That doesn't that is needed.

[1:57:15] That's that's new school related construction.

[1:57:18] That's specific to the school, but it's not necessarily building three-dimensional related.

[1:57:24] I guess what I'm getting at is.

[1:57:28] These things sort of come together to me in my brain.

[1:57:32] And it's like.

[1:57:34] I think about a new high school obviously that's new construction.

[1:57:39] But to me if you're going to add a wing.

[1:57:45] That's new construction.

[1:57:47] Absolutely.

[1:57:48] Yeah.

[1:57:49] Absolutely.

[1:57:50] So I guess I have trouble bringing it down.

[1:57:53] If what point are we talking new construction and what point are we talking major innovation?

[1:57:58] My problem, not sure.

[1:58:00] Sure.

[1:58:01] My definition of renovation would be augmenting that existing structure.

[1:58:05] New construction would be starting from the ground up.

[1:58:08] Adding another wing augmenting our building a new sports facility.

[1:58:12] Putting in a new parking lot.

[1:58:14] That's I would consider that new construction not a renovation.

[1:58:16] Like default high schools do.

[1:58:18] But since the law was written so ambiguously.

[1:58:21] Not in terms and in terms of again I'll pose the question.

[1:58:25] I'll pose the question again because we have time here.

[1:58:28] Let's say we decide to pay for the first six months of the renovation with general fund dollars.

[1:58:37] First six months.

[1:58:38] And on month seven we decided to use the one sense sales tax revenue to make the seventh payment.

[1:58:43] Is that considered old debt or new debt?

[1:58:47] The law is not clear on that.

[1:58:49] And I've asked several attorneys and they say it's not clear.

[1:58:52] Some of the attorneys that work on the board supervisor in your county told me it's not clear.

[1:58:57] Because you don't know when the clock tells.

[1:59:00] Which is why we made the five of us made the decisions that we did.

[1:59:03] And you can interpret it both ways.

[1:59:06] Our and steam counselor doesn't agree.

[1:59:09] But we did we want that because we thought what we did was legal based on our recommendations made by our bond council.

[1:59:15] Which we relied on.

[1:59:17] So when is that seventh month?

[1:59:21] Is that seventh month old debt now?

[1:59:23] Or is it new debt?

[1:59:25] That's the question we had to ponder.

[1:59:29] Let's move on with this.

[1:59:32] But we appreciate.

[1:59:33] Okay.

[1:59:34] Mr. Well, what do you have for us?

[1:59:35] So rather than calling in a resolution to allocate school sales tax revenue.

[1:59:40] What I have proposed or it's a possibility.

[1:59:44] Is a resolution in support of going out to bid on an expanded scope for Gloster high school renovation.

[1:59:51] So that's the title of the resolution.

[1:59:53] A resolution in support of going out to bid on an expanded scope for Gloster high school renovations.

[1:59:59] .

[2:00:00] The first two were as paragraphs remain the same, which basically tell the story of the one-cent sales tax, and that it's estimated to be beginning of the third were as paragraph would remain the same, estimated to generate 15.5 million additional debt capacity for new construction and major renovation for school projects. So that would remain the same, the third were as paragraph would remain the same. So fourth were as paragraph is where it would change slightly. The beginning would be the same. Whereas on February 15, 2022,

[2:00:30] the GCPS superintendent on behalf of the school board requested that the estimated 15.5 million additional debt capacity be used to supplement the Gloucester High School Major Renovation Project and here's why I've added language.

[2:00:45] To fund price increases for the originally proposed scope of the project, comma, and to fund an expanded scope of that project.

[2:00:58] So that's the extent of the changes to the title and the whereas paragraph.

[2:01:02] So it's to fund price increases for the originally proposed scope of the project, comma, and to fund an expanded scope of that project.

[2:01:14] So that's the extent of the changes to the title and the whereas paragraph.

[2:01:18] Potential price increases. We don't know if you're saying an affirmative that we're going to have price increases.

[2:01:23] The later school's came to the board, came to the board and asked for an allocation of this 15.5 in projected one cent sales tax, the attributed to two causes.

[2:01:35] One was the additional inflated costs of the original proposal and the other was they wanted to expand the scope of that project.

[2:01:44] So that's what this the my intent of changing this whereas paragraph is that we recognize the board of supervisors recognizes that the desire of the school system.

[2:01:52] the school system is to go out to bid for an expanded scope, but also to co-increase prices

[2:01:59] of the original scope. So that's what I tried to do with that wordsmith.

[2:02:04] But we don't know what the bids are going to come in.

[2:02:06] Why don't we say potential price increases?

[2:02:09] Well, because they, well, I'm taking it on as fact and on faith that there are prices, a piece of wood

[2:02:19] costs, like gold. It, it, they're price increases, but you could say potential price

[2:02:26] increase. Well, that's. Then, and now, therefore, be it resolved by the, by the Board of Supervisors.

[2:02:36] By the, that the Board of Supervisors supports the Gloucester High School major renovation.

[2:02:49] Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Board of Supervisors, that the Gloucester High School major renovation

[2:03:00] project be bid in expanded scope as proposed by the Gloucester County School Board.

[2:03:08] And, can you go up to the last word as?

[2:03:11] Yes. And, closing that, undo burden. Oh, yes. It's not undo-y burden, undo burden.

[2:03:22] So, it's now therefore, be it resolved by the Board of Supervisors, that the, that the Gloucester High School

[2:03:33] major renovation project be bid in expanded scope, well, that it supports that the Gloucester County

[2:03:40] Gloucester High School major renovation project be bid in expanded scope as proposed by GCP.

[2:03:46] My, my issue with that, though, is why do we need to call it an expanded scope? Why don't we just call it the scope?

[2:03:52] Well, because there was an original proposal that, but that goes away with this. We're ignoring the alterations.

[2:03:58] We're ignoring the addition. We want the additions to be partly scope, right?

[2:04:04] And that was the intent of the wordsmithing. But, but you're calling it additional. What did you call it?

[2:04:09] You call it an expanded scope? I call it an expanded scope. But, implies that there's two costs, there's two going to be two.

[2:04:14] Two bills we're going to get from these guys. No, but in the, in our February 15th meeting,

[2:04:19] the reason we want the expanded scope is because they had the regular, what we would originally propose.

[2:04:25] Correct. And then the secondary expanded scope. So, I think it's perfect the way that it is because

[2:04:31] and I just had it pulled up. There was two different colors where the original had gone from, I think, the original,

[2:04:38] estimate when I don't remember if it was 15 or 19, starting at like $38 million, that original $38 million project

[2:04:46] has now ballooned to $54 million just on inflation and time since since we had that initial discussion.

[2:04:54] So, that's why they're, they're, they're, they're saying the, the expanded scope, but I think it makes total sense.

[2:05:00] But again, if you, let me just, again, if you call it, what, it would not hurt just to call this

[2:05:06] base scope, which would include, we won't call it additional scope. We just don't use that phrase.

[2:05:12] That's going to change the pricing structure of your contract. It is. Let's, let's make it, okay.

[2:05:19] I did this for a living. What he's proposing is going to, it's going to, it's going to create

[2:05:24] by the contract two different prices.

[2:05:28] It is changing, I'm sorry, it's changing the scope because you have, and it's all been documented,

[2:05:36] what that scope was agreed upon. And now it's going to be more items on that list. And if you don't,

[2:05:43] let's just put those more items in, call it the base bid scope.

[2:05:48] And if you can't, let's say the board has changed the scope or as a, but I, I think you're getting

[2:05:56] treading on, you know, placing it down on the scope. So, what, what, from your experience, what?

[2:06:01] You don't have to pass any resolution. You just go out to bed. Okay. You could do that. If you want,

[2:06:08] this would just, in my mind, just in my opinion, would clarify and recognize that there was an original

[2:06:16] tentatively agreed upon scope for the project, which was significantly less and that at the last meeting,

[2:06:23] or two meetings ago, the school system came to the board and said, look, that's not going to work for two

[2:06:28] reasons. One is because of inflation and the additional costs associated with the scope of the original project.

[2:06:35] And secondly, we want to add some items to this project. We want to do, to make, because it's cost effective to do it now,

[2:06:42] rather than piecemeal. We want to do it all at once. So, that adds a significant additional cost.

[2:06:48] So, I think the price increases were like 7 million and the additional scope was like 8 million. And so,

[2:06:56] we're total about 15 million dollars. So, what I'm trying to do is recognize they came to the board of supervisors

[2:07:01] with that, with that presentation and you recognize it. And you support going out to bid,

[2:07:07] it recognize the inflated costs and putting in the bid those additional scoped, expanded scope of the project

[2:07:16] and get solicited bids for that, without actually appropriating or allocating funds to tie your hands to fund whatever

[2:07:25] bids you get. But having said all that, if you don't want to pass a resolution, you don't have to, and you just go out to bid.

[2:07:31] It's not, I'd like to make the motion for the resolution that Mr. Wilma just presented to us.

[2:07:39] Second, further discussion. Any questions? I'll see you this. So, Ms. Crowley, I see what is.

[2:07:47] I apologize. I'm normally jumping. I just wanted to clarify with Mr. Wilma,

[2:07:51] if I could, where we made a change as he, after the fourth whereas the fifth whereas,

[2:07:57] where there are any changes as that staying in as it is. Yes. And then the sixth whereas

[2:08:02] changing. I'm doing the undo. Yes. And then I'll try one more time on the now there for four

[2:08:07] be a result. Now, therefore, be a result that the board of supervisors, by the five the board of supervisors,

[2:08:16] that it supports, let's try again. I can repeat what I tried to get from you.

[2:08:26] That the board of supervisors supports that the Gloucester High School Major Renovation Project

[2:08:32] be bid and expanded scope as proposed by the GCPS. Is that what you've had?

[2:08:38] That was good. Are you changing it slightly? That the board of supervisors supports that the Gloucester

[2:08:47] High School Major Renovation Project be bid and expanded scope as proposed by the Gloucester County

[2:08:53] School Board, that means you got a place to raise.

[2:09:01] So this doesn't suggest any kind of allocation then it could be construed as an allocation

[2:09:08] by some entity. It's not an allocation or an appropriation, it does express your support of them going out

[2:09:15] to bid. So at some level it expresses the board support that you intend to fund a major high school renovation

[2:09:26] project without tying your hands as to the specific amount. So what's the impact of the

[2:09:30] whereas it contains the 15.5 million. That commits us to give them. No, it doesn't. It does not.

[2:09:36] And remember, whereas paragraphs just tell a story, whereas paragraphs never put your hands.

[2:09:40] Okay. Okay. So you still pull the board please. Mr. Smith. Yes. Dr. Ors. Mr. Hudson. Yes. Mr. Hadrock. Yes. Mr. Bezani. Mr. Gibson. Yes. Mr. Chris Cap.

[2:09:53] Okay. Mr. Sherry's unanimous. Okay. Well, guys, don't go away because now we have to end up with the

[2:10:00] of the school item. I don't think so. No. Yes. I would go. Or just to men chapter 18 to complete that section 1814,

[2:10:07] use the video monitoring systems to enforce the law against passing stops, school buses.

[2:10:12] Well, you're earning your salary. They missed too much. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. The materials

[2:10:19] associated with this matter start on page 139 of your agenda packet. The school system came to me

[2:10:27] conjunction with the sheriff with a proposal to have the board consider an ordinance,

[2:10:33] which would not assess a $250 penalty on stopped school bus red light violators, but it would

[2:10:42] direct that to the schools to allow them to contract with the private entity to outfit the school buses

[2:10:53] with cameras and to work in conjunction with that outside entity to monitor school bus red light

[2:11:02] violators and to work with the school system in finding those or summonsing those and the sheriff's

[2:11:11] office to have the $250 penalty. Currently, there is under state law a $250 civil penalty,

[2:11:20] which can be assessed against stop school bus red light violators. But if it's charged under the state code,

[2:11:27] that money goes to the state. It doesn't go to the locality. It doesn't go to the county,

[2:11:32] and it doesn't go to the school system. It's possible that some of these charges have been charged under

[2:11:37] the county code historically. I doubt it. And I don't know how many charges there have been because it's

[2:11:43] very difficult to catch a stopped school bus red light violator. If you don't have this mechanism

[2:11:52] to find out who's violating that law, and if you can't know who the person is, you're not typically

[2:11:58] going to have a deputy or a sheriff on site who's going to be able to identify the vehicle right down the

[2:12:04] license plate and charge the violator. So this would allow the school system if you pass this ordinance

[2:12:12] and it's not required. It's enabled. It's not required. It would enable the school system to

[2:12:17] outfit its buses or as many of the buses as the school system wants to outfit the buses with cameras

[2:12:23] and to contract with the outside entity to help them do that and help them monitor the situation.

[2:12:29] Now if the violators are caught on camera, they will be issued summonses and they'll be directed to pay

[2:12:37] $250. Now they will be given an opportunity pursuant to the state code section which is in your

[2:12:43] packet to contest the violation. If they do so in a timely period of time and they can satisfy

[2:12:54] that they weren't the driver or they weren't responsible, then they would be relieved of the civil penalty.

[2:13:00] If they don't contest the violation or they don't contest it successfully, then they're compelled to pay

[2:13:06] the $250. Mr. Hedrick, I think had a question about the administrative fee. The way the

[2:13:16] ordinance is worded is that the $250 civil penalty would come to the county. It would be made payable

[2:13:22] to the foster county treasure. The county would then take out any costs that it had incurred in the program

[2:13:30] which I really don't think there will be any for the county proper. And then the excess of whatever

[2:13:36] that is would go to the school system to help them defray the cost and expenses associated with

[2:13:41] this program. And if they had any surplus, they could use it for whatever purpose they would like.

[2:13:46] Don't know whether there would be any surplus. In fact, I'm not even sure it's going to be a self-sustaining

[2:13:51] proposition. It included in your packet was not a bid but an estimate associated with one company's assisting

[2:14:00] the school system. And I think it was on the magnitude of $12,000 a month which is a lot of money.

[2:14:07] In fact, it equates to $48 times $250. So I think it would in order for them to net to make it even.

[2:14:16] They'd have to have 48 summons is paid and I don't know whether that's feasible. But the goal here,

[2:14:24] I think, probably everyone agrees with. And that is that we have to keep people from running the

[2:14:30] stop school bus red lights and keep people from getting injured. Mr. Hedrick had some questions at the last

[2:14:36] meeting dealing with well how many violators have we had and have there been injuries, et cetera, et cetera.

[2:14:42] I think that I forwarded to each of you answers when I thought to be answers to those questions which I got

[2:14:49] graciously from the Sheriff's Office and from the schools. So I hope that answered those questions.

[2:14:55] There was also a question about the administrative fee.

[2:15:00] State statute talks about the administrative fee. It was not necessary to put that in your ordinance. But the state statute allows that if the, if the school system contracts with an outside vendor to assist in this process, if the civil penalty is not contested or paid within a 30 days, which is the amount of time they have from the date the summons is mailed, then a administrative fee can be added to the cost of that civil penalty. So over above the $250.

[2:15:30] And that the administrative fee can be up to $100. If the civil penalty is paid after 30 days, but before 60 days, then that administrative fee is limited to $25.

[2:15:43] So there's no administrative fee the way I read the code and that some might disagree, but I haven't talked to anyone else. The way I read the code is there's no administrative fee associated with a civil penalty that's paid within the 30 days.

[2:15:57] On the red light, which you shouldn't do, but if you do and you charge the civil penalty, you pay the $250 within 30 days of the summons being mailed, you don't owe an administrative fee.

[2:16:09] If you don't pay it and don't contest it successfully, and you pay it within the 30 to 60 days, then you can be assessed up to a $25 administrative fee and above the $250.

[2:16:22] If you wait until after the 60 days, you can be assessed up to $100 an additional administrative fee.

[2:16:31] And I think the intent of that is to allow the school system to contract with this entity to help collect the civil fees.

[2:16:41] And I also, obviously, incentive to pay your civil penalty on time, because you don't want it risk having to pay an extra $100.

[2:16:51] Mr. Hedry.

[2:16:53] Who gets the $100? The school system or the contract with?

[2:17:01] It's going to probably work as a pass through from the school system to the contract.

[2:17:08] So.

[2:17:10] Yeah, go ahead, because I see.

[2:17:12] So Mr. Hedry.

[2:17:14] Thank you.

[2:17:16] There's diminishing returns here gentlemen.

[2:17:20] You run the red light once.

[2:17:24] Probably not going to do it again.

[2:17:26] So to say that we're going to get we need 50 convictions.

[2:17:30] And I don't think you're going to get 100% 50 convictions.

[2:17:33] I think what was the percentage of convictions out of the number of summons that they got?

[2:17:37] I think we're talking to different things.

[2:17:41] There's no conviction so far because you don't whatever whatever.

[2:17:44] Okay.

[2:17:45] Okay.

[2:17:46] There's 2% of the violators on average that even contest the civil penalty.

[2:17:51] Okay.

[2:17:52] And I have Mr. Decker with me and Mr. Hartley.

[2:17:55] We've been working on this for some time.

[2:17:57] And.

[2:18:00] Your predecessor started this program or.

[2:18:04] Intertain the idea of many years ago.

[2:18:06] And and at the end of the day we've got a problem here.

[2:18:09] And I appreciate and understand your questions.

[2:18:12] No thank God we haven't had a fatality related this.

[2:18:15] But I'm telling you we've had a lot of close calls.

[2:18:17] And I don't have enough deputies to follow school buses every day.

[2:18:21] I don't have a the same amount of deputies.

[2:18:23] We have school bus number one.

[2:18:25] But but getting back to to where we're going.

[2:18:29] I'll.

[2:18:31] I apologize that it doesn't appear that any of you and possibly Mr.

[2:18:36] Wellma has not been.

[2:18:38] Has not received a copy of the proposed contract.

[2:18:43] Mr. Bosnian I had a conversation and I just want to read to you a piece of the contract that I pulled out.

[2:18:49] Sorry to interrupt but it was that name of the company.

[2:18:52] Bus patrol.

[2:18:53] But it said confidential.

[2:18:55] That's why that's fine.

[2:18:58] At the end of the day.

[2:19:01] They the outside vendor assumes a hundred percent of the risk.

[2:19:06] If if they do not receive the amount of money.

[2:19:10] That they need to cover their cost.

[2:19:14] They at the end of it they right off.

[2:19:16] Okay so why can't we see Mr. Wilma why can't we see the pocket copy.

[2:19:20] I don't want to end up with a waste management contract where we get.

[2:19:23] You know they get one hundred percent of we get one hundred percent of the risk and they don't.

[2:19:27] Well I put the cost sheet in there of twelve thousand I didn't put the contract in it because it says it was confidential.

[2:19:34] Well.

[2:19:35] But okay so it's confidential but don't we have a right to see it.

[2:19:42] We're we're the one spending the money here.

[2:19:44] Well I certainly we can ask them for permission to to share that with you.

[2:19:52] I want to see if there's a my new clause in there that says hey guess what if we don't make the revenues we intended to make then we're coming back after you guys.

[2:20:00] Well did the contract.

[2:20:02] You read the contract.

[2:20:03] Yeah I've seen the contract.

[2:20:05] You've seen it.

[2:20:06] But the risk the board supervisors wouldn't incur risk.

[2:20:10] Any risk that would be incurred would be the school division.

[2:20:13] Well if the school division incurs a risk then they come back to us for additional funding right so there's the risk comes back to us again.

[2:20:19] It just goes full circle.

[2:20:22] It could you could repeal the ordinance and and take down the cameras.

[2:20:27] You could.

[2:20:28] I don't know it's up to you.

[2:20:30] We've got him there's an out you know for either side with proper notice given.

[2:20:36] But but the way the system works is.

[2:20:41] They do all the work.

[2:20:42] They come in and provide the training.

[2:20:44] They install all the equipment.

[2:20:46] They train the school bus drivers.

[2:20:50] You know the MOU contains things like hey you got to have them on the school buses so that they have an opportunity to get their revenue.

[2:20:59] Law enforcement has to be involved.

[2:21:01] Our only involvement is essentially.

[2:21:04] They'll send it to us.

[2:21:06] Data videos weekly and they don't decide what's a violation.

[2:21:10] They say okay here's here's.

[2:21:13] 50.

[2:21:14] Potential violations.

[2:21:16] And then we're going to designate if this.

[2:21:19] Pass is we're going to designate our school resource officers to review this video.

[2:21:23] It takes 30 seconds.

[2:21:24] They've got it down to us.

[2:21:26] It takes 30 seconds to look and say yes it's a violation or it's not.

[2:21:29] Would it be prudent to have this contractor come explain this system to us and and.

[2:21:34] To not to explain how it works.

[2:21:37] That's.

[2:21:38] Oh because it's a school it's a school project.

[2:21:41] And Mr. Chair I was going to ask I'm sure if I think you said this is.

[2:21:45] You know any of you all could answer this but this company is employed or used in our neighboring localities.

[2:21:51] I mean I think that.

[2:21:53] So we're not like the first ones on the bus no pun intended.

[2:21:57] This has been.

[2:21:58] I won't run.

[2:21:59] Let me share that because.

[2:22:00] But when I started hearing.

[2:22:01] Okay.

[2:22:02] Do it.

[2:22:03] Please do.

[2:22:04] I said I need to know.

[2:22:06] Who.

[2:22:07] You know where you hear what we don't send me to.

[2:22:10] I'm talking to where.

[2:22:12] So I go to.

[2:22:14] A meeting.

[2:22:15] Sean Donner's chief place.

[2:22:17] And I was burned.

[2:22:18] As somebody said they're on the things.

[2:22:20] I said.

[2:22:21] I thought James city would have.

[2:22:22] I said no.

[2:22:23] We have.

[2:22:24] The first week.

[2:22:25] They had 80 violations.

[2:22:27] The first week.

[2:22:28] Hmm.

[2:22:29] And I understand the concern.

[2:22:32] But the concern.

[2:22:33] What's all of our problem.

[2:22:35] I don't know.

[2:22:37] If the concern is.

[2:22:39] Hey, you might do it once.

[2:22:41] You got to understand.

[2:22:43] We.

[2:22:44] We have people.

[2:22:45] Oh, they long.

[2:22:46] They get multiple spades.

[2:22:47] You know.

[2:22:48] You know.

[2:22:49] You.

[2:22:50] You.

[2:22:51] You.

[2:22:52] You.

[2:22:53] You.

[2:22:54] You.

[2:22:55] Yes.

[2:22:56] Um.

[2:22:57] I like to thank the sheriff for being here.

[2:22:58] Um.

[2:22:59] Mr. Hartley for for coming up with him.

[2:23:01] I'd like to make the motion that.

[2:23:03] To on for the ordinance to amend chapter 18 that is on page 140 of our package.

[2:23:08] Second.

[2:23:09] Any further discussion.

[2:23:10] No.

[2:23:11] See any further discussion.

[2:23:13] Miss.

[2:23:14] Still pull the board please.

[2:23:15] Doctor.

[2:23:16] Yes.

[2:23:17] Mr. Hudson.

[2:23:18] Yes.

[2:23:19] Mr. Hadrick.

[2:23:20] Yes.

[2:23:21] Mr. Bezani.

[2:23:22] Mr. Gibson.

[2:23:23] Yes.

[2:23:24] Mr. Crisca.

[2:23:25] Yes.

[2:23:26] Yes.

[2:23:27] Motion.

[2:23:28] Okay.

[2:23:29] I can see.

[2:23:30] Ordnance to been.

[2:23:31] Water County Code section.

[2:23:33] Two dot.

[2:23:34] Five.

[2:23:35] Dash.

[2:23:36] One.

[2:23:37] Come.

[2:23:38] Thank you.

[2:23:39] Mr. Chair.

[2:23:40] Okay, guys.

[2:23:41] Let's keep this moving.

[2:23:44] As you will recall.

[2:23:46] Relatively recently there was a.

[2:23:49] A.

[2:23:50] A. A. Two.

[2:23:52] Resident who expressed a concern about.

[2:23:54] An individual who would utilize this.

[2:23:56] Quirt House.

[2:23:57] In. In presenting his own message.

[2:24:00] And. The. Potential that that message may have been confused as being represented to be.

[2:24:02] By someone other just than just the individual.

[2:24:06] He.

[2:24:15] The. The constituents. The components.

[2:24:18] United Gloucester County Code Section 2.5-1, which generally prohibits the non-governmental

[2:24:25] utilization of the county seal, which is the beehive, basically, without express permission

[2:24:33] of the Commissioner of Major League Baseball.

[2:24:34] No, of the Board of Supervisors.

[2:24:39] He talked to me, the complainant about it, and part of my response was, well, unfortunately

[2:24:47] because of a relatively recent case out of the federal court in Virginia, we're not allowed

[2:24:57] to enforce that prohibition if we take that court's decision in Rothamel as being gospel.

[2:25:06] The ordinance at issue in Rothamel was the Fruvant County ordinance, which basically was almost

[2:25:13] word for word, the same prohibition as is currently in Gostric County Code Section 2.5-1.

[2:25:22] The Court in Rothamel held that that ordinance was unconstitutionally, it was violative

[2:25:28] of an individual's first amendment rights of expression, it wasn't specific enough.

[2:25:35] And one of the things the Court did in Rothamel was differentiated, the federal statutory language,

[2:25:42] prohibiting utilization without permission of the federal seal, the presidential seal,

[2:25:47] and those kinds of seal, and said that that language may be okay as a prohibition.

[2:25:53] But the Fruvant County ordinance, which prohibited use of the Fruvant County seal without

[2:25:59] the express permission of the Fruvant Board of Supervisors, was not Constitution, it was

[2:26:04] a violative of the first amendment.

[2:26:06] So in light of that, my response to the complaining constituent was, I'm not sure that this

[2:26:12] other citizen and his message violated the Code as written.

[2:26:18] But even if I did think it violated the Code as written, we would not be able to enforce that prohibition

[2:26:25] because of that court's decision that it violated the individuals' first amendment rights.

[2:26:30] So what I did was in response to this, it wouldn't go away.

[2:26:38] My initial inclination Mr. Bazani was to do nothing, which is always the easiest thing to do

[2:26:45] is to just say the reason why I didn't want to have the section repealed or totally done away with was,

[2:26:53] I thought it was a good thing to generally discourage utilization of the County seal without

[2:26:58] the County's permission.

[2:27:00] I thought that was generally a good thing and so I didn't necessarily have a problem with keeping

[2:27:06] the wording as is, just to be a general deterrent about trying to falsely convey that you

[2:27:13] are, you have the term to be a glossary County Board of Supervisors.

[2:27:17] But reading Roth and Mel carefully on page 11 of that decision, they differentiated the federal

[2:27:23] statutory prohibition in language from the language that issued in glossary in Fruvant.

[2:27:30] So if the court's going to take pains to differentiate that, to me, that indicates that

[2:27:34] the court would probably bless the federal language as being constitution.

[2:27:40] I think I shared with you a copy of the federal statute and that's where the language I tried

[2:27:46] to basically plagiarize and lift from.

[2:27:49] Don't think the court in Roth and Mel would have a problem with that.

[2:27:52] That statutory language in 42 USC, whatever the code section is, has not been the subject of

[2:27:58] constitutional attack.

[2:28:00] Now, in 13 years, I have not prosecuted a single case of violating to .5-1 prohibition against

[2:28:10] utilization of the county seal.

[2:28:12] I probably wouldn't have prosecuted this individual because I don't think it raised to let

[2:28:16] out that.

[2:28:17] So, and I'm very try to be very respectful of individuals' constitutional rights, including their

[2:28:23] first amendment, right.

[2:28:26] So your options are laid out in the memo.

[2:28:28] I think it's part of your board packet, or if it's not, it was in a previous memo dated January

[2:28:33] 19th, because we were going to talk about this at one of the retreat.

[2:28:38] One of the options you have is to do nothing, just keep it as is.

[2:28:42] Another option is to just take out the two subsections D and E, which talk about the prohibition

[2:28:49] in the penalty for unauthorized use.

[2:28:51] You just take that out.

[2:28:52] So there being no prohibition, there being no penalty for unauthorized use.

[2:28:56] Another option is to track this federal statutory prohibition language, which is what the

[2:29:04] ordinance you have in your packet would do.

[2:29:06] So you have multiple options.

[2:29:08] Do nothing, eliminate subsections, D and E, or adopt the modified statute of ordinance language.

[2:29:18] Massage?

[2:29:19] Sure.

[2:29:20] So, I think you all would agree on.

[2:29:22] I am sick and tired of this woke culture, this cancel culture, anyone trying to prevent anyone

[2:29:29] from speaking.

[2:29:30] If you have a first amendment right to say what you want in public, anywhere you want, and if it just

[2:29:36] happens to have a seal behind you, that's the seal.

[2:29:40] So unless you are threatening the life of someone or threatening harm to someone else, that's

[2:29:45] not first amendment right speech.

[2:29:47] But in my newsletter, I use that seal.

[2:29:51] We're all wearing that seal.

[2:29:52] When we go in public, and say something, are we going to be in violation of this?

[2:29:57] And how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you, how.

[2:30:00] How do you defend conveying a false impression? How do you, the bar must be really high to convey a false impression?

[2:30:08] How do you prove that? How do you prove it? It would be a criminal charge. It would have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, which is really high.

[2:30:17] It would have to be what's called men's ray involved, which is basically evil or wrongful intent.

[2:30:22] So this person said, this is my opinion.

[2:30:28] I don't think he violated either the court.

[2:30:31] So I proposed gentlemen, we would just leave this alone.

[2:30:34] Someone's got a personal vendetta against this person, right?

[2:30:37] It is. It's a person. This is high school stuff.

[2:30:39] I don't like you because I'm going to get you in trouble now. This is high school stuff.

[2:30:42] He's got a peaked in high school. It's enough.

[2:30:45] We're all grown, grown educated men here.

[2:30:48] The only downside that I can see in keeping in the way it is is I cannot enforce the prohibition because it's unconstitutional.

[2:30:57] If the person wants to use the seal for whatever purpose they want to, as long as they don't threaten the life of someone else or burdened harm to someone else,

[2:31:04] Hey, it's the first amendment right to do that. I can wrap a flag around me and burn it. If I want to, that's my first amendment right.

[2:31:10] If I want to make the gloss or flag here, wrap it around my shoulder and burn it in the front here.

[2:31:14] That's my first amendment right to do so.

[2:31:16] Am I going to be in violation for burning that flag under this?

[2:31:19] Not of a gloss or county ordinance.

[2:31:21] Okay. So let's leave it alone.

[2:31:23] Gentlemen.

[2:31:24] Mr. Gibson.

[2:31:25] Yeah.

[2:31:26] I absolutely support the free speech rights of any person in our community, any citizen,

[2:31:32] and this ordinance does nothing to restrict the cherished first amendment rights.

[2:31:39] The individual who made his speech in front of the seal could have made that speech anywhere in this community, anywhere in this country,

[2:31:48] and there would, if I could finish, please.

[2:31:50] And there would be absolutely no restrictions on his first amendment rights to speak,

[2:31:56] engage in political discussions.

[2:31:59] The problem is when he made that speech in front of the seal,

[2:32:05] surrounded by the American flag, the state flag, directly below that seal.

[2:32:10] It created a huge amount of confusion and dissension among the community.

[2:32:14] It wasn't just one component to Ted Wilma.

[2:32:16] This was all over social media in the county.

[2:32:20] Huge controversy.

[2:32:22] And there is a risk of people sitting in front of that seal and conveying false information or confusing information.

[2:32:32] And what was stated in that video was not approved by the school board in Gloucester County.

[2:32:39] It was not authorized by the Gloucester County Board of Supervisors.

[2:32:43] And so it was improper, in my opinion.

[2:32:46] And the risk is, just say, for instance, Mr. Wilma decides he wants to come down here and make a speech in front of the seal,

[2:32:53] flanked by flags and says, no one can enter any Gloucester business unless they are double mask

[2:32:59] and they produce a vaccination card.

[2:33:01] He's the county attorney, but he is conveying the authority of Gloucester County by his speech in front of that seal.

[2:33:07] It wouldn't be accurate, it wouldn't be the truth, but it would create havoc in our communities.

[2:33:12] Say, what? I have to comply with this.

[2:33:14] That's the risk of someone using the seal improperly.

[2:33:20] And I believe if we're going to have an ordinance on the books, it should be constitutional.

[2:33:24] And Mr. Wilma's explained that the proposed ordinance language is consistent with the case law.

[2:33:30] And so it tracks that law. It serves a good purpose for our community.

[2:33:34] And therefore I support the adoption of the revised ordinance language.

[2:33:38] Mr. Chris, Chris, go ahead.

[2:33:40] Thank you, Mr. Hors.

[2:33:42] With, with going along with what Mr. Gibson said,

[2:33:46] I think approving this the way that it is written in our package tonight,

[2:33:52] neither the school board individual or in his hypothetical situation.

[2:33:57] Mr. Wilma neither one I think would be convicted.

[2:33:59] For under this ordinance, the way that what the proposed change,

[2:34:04] because there is nothing there that could be said beyond the shadow of a doubt

[2:34:10] that you can convict them with.

[2:34:13] Mr. Horses.

[2:34:15] I'm going to support the change because anyone any elected official

[2:34:23] that wants to give a speech in front of our great seal.

[2:34:29] Can't do that if they simply give a disclaimer at the start of their speech.

[2:34:34] Simply stating that I'm not speaking for anyone in any.

[2:34:38] Poor should part of the county any group and then give a speech.

[2:34:45] And so I'm going to support it for that reason.

[2:34:48] So let's say then we pass this.

[2:34:52] Well, this person, the so-called complainant, now go out and say,

[2:34:55] I want this person to try and I want to give him a fine.

[2:34:59] I want to sue you.

[2:35:01] You wouldn't be able to retroactively enforce the prohibition,

[2:35:04] but let's say you've passed this and the incident occurred.

[2:35:09] It probably would not prosecute it as a violation.

[2:35:13] Mr. Chair.

[2:35:14] Mr. Smith.

[2:35:15] Mr. Smith.

[2:35:16] Mr. Smith.

[2:35:17] Mr. Smith.

[2:35:18] Just said, it is not or it was not just one person.

[2:35:25] He and I both were out camping and I don't know if he heard it or not,

[2:35:31] but I sure heard it everywhere I went.

[2:35:35] You know, people were a lot of people.

[2:35:38] You know, they took stop and what they heard.

[2:35:43] Because it gave them a parent that it was county.

[2:35:48] It was a county official making this statement.

[2:35:53] And a lot of people believed everything that was said in that statement.

[2:35:58] So I support the change.

[2:36:01] Mr. Smith.

[2:36:03] Mr. Smith.

[2:36:04] Who would say that it's illegal?

[2:36:10] It would have to be a county official, either the sheriff,

[2:36:18] someone from the sheriff's office who would obtain the charge or me,

[2:36:23] but I would be the one who prosecutes it.

[2:36:25] So I would be the one who would prosecutes it or drops.

[2:36:28] So it would be reported to you or them.

[2:36:31] Yes.

[2:36:33] And then you would figure out if you're going to prosecute it or not.

[2:36:36] Yes.

[2:36:37] And this was in my estimation this particular presentation was misleading.

[2:36:45] And it was not clear that he was representing himself individually.

[2:36:51] But it also to me wasn't overtly misrepresentational that he was appearing on behalf of the county or the school board.

[2:37:01] And like I said, I'd have to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt.

[2:37:05] And under the amended language, I would have to prove not only what what what he did,

[2:37:12] but it would also be I would have to prove that he did what he did for the purpose of conveying

[2:37:20] or in a manner reasonably calculated to convey a false impression of sponsorship or approval by

[2:37:26] Mr. County Virginia.

[2:37:27] And this in my estimation was borderline in that regard.

[2:37:31] So I would hope that if you adopted this amended language that it would discourage people from lightly utilizing the county seal for their own purposes.

[2:37:41] So just but I'm sorry.

[2:37:44] So you know, we take the oath when we step into this position.

[2:37:50] We agreed to support the Constitution of the United States,

[2:37:54] period regardless.

[2:37:55] So free speech is there.

[2:37:57] I think that I see this as a way of supporting the Constitution.

[2:38:01] It makes a little bit clearer.

[2:38:03] Unfortunately, a situation has pushed us to do this.

[2:38:07] But I think it does clarify the situation and allows us and the last people free speech.

[2:38:12] But it does follow the federal law and is constitutional.

[2:38:16] And if any situation arose, we have support of it.

[2:38:20] This one is on constitutional correct.

[2:38:23] So that way I think we're doing things that are constitutionally correct.

[2:38:29] I may say so.

[2:38:31] I see the issue not so much as what was said.

[2:38:40] But I only see one person in this room that if they were to stand up there and say something.

[2:38:48] And that's Mr. Brown that it wouldn't be unless the utility committees up here.

[2:38:54] So basically none of us that if they were standing in front of that,

[2:38:59] it still is portraying their county is making that statement.

[2:39:08] That's the problem I see with it.

[2:39:10] And this has no regard to what everybody is applying to on Facebook.

[2:39:16] I think it's mainly who's doing the talking versus what has been said and how it's being said.

[2:39:26] One of the one of the problems with the current language,

[2:39:30] not problem that made it be declared unconstitutional.

[2:39:34] But the prohibition was limited to non-governmental use.

[2:39:38] So one of the defenses this individual could utilize was that he was using it for governmental use.

[2:39:45] So I had multiple problems with the potential prosecution of this individual.

[2:39:50] The main one being that it was unconstitutional.

[2:39:53] The other one being, he could argue that it was a governmental purpose.

[2:39:57] It was a governmental use.

[2:39:58] Not sanctioned by the school board or the board of supervisors.

[2:40:01] But it wasn't because he was having a picnic.

[2:40:05] So, if there's, is there anything here that you would envision yourself in prosecuted?

[2:40:18] Yes.

[2:40:19] Okay.

[2:40:20] I hope that never happened.

[2:40:21] But with it changed, you do.

[2:40:23] Yes, sir.

[2:40:24] Okay.

[2:40:25] So, okay.

[2:40:27] More and more.

[2:40:28] So, hypotheticals here.

[2:40:30] So, let's say I stood in front of the podium and I said,

[2:40:34] Gee, Glosser County is a great place.

[2:40:37] And somebody who says, I don't agree with this guy.

[2:40:39] I don't agree with his ideology.

[2:40:41] Glosser County is not a great place.

[2:40:43] I don't like living here.

[2:40:44] And he said it's a great place.

[2:40:45] They can come in, get me for this, right?

[2:40:48] Because I've conveyed a false impression about why Glosser County is a great place.

[2:40:52] I was not prosecute that charge.

[2:40:54] But he can complain under this statute.

[2:40:56] People complain every day.

[2:40:58] I'd like to make the motion that they accept.

[2:41:02] Exactly.

[2:41:03] Oh, sure.

[2:41:05] That's all that's meant in the county case.

[2:41:07] We've got a reception to one part of that.

[2:41:09] Exactly.

[2:41:10] Any further discussion?

[2:41:12] Mr. Hatton.

[2:41:16] Mr. Hatton.

[2:41:17] Yes.

[2:41:18] Mr. Bazani.

[2:41:19] Mr. Gibson.

[2:41:20] Yes.

[2:41:21] Mr. Crosco.

[2:41:22] Yes.

[2:41:23] Mr. Smith.

[2:41:24] Yes.

[2:41:25] Dr. Morris.

[2:41:26] Go down to the end.

[2:41:27] Board appointments.

[2:41:28] Number D. I didn't date.

[2:41:29] What do we have in front of us?

[2:41:31] We have.

[2:41:32] We have.

[2:41:33] We have.

[2:41:34] We have.

[2:41:35] We have.

[2:41:36] We have.

[2:41:37] We have.

[2:41:38] I don't see that.

[2:41:39] We do.

[2:41:40] I don't see.

[2:41:41] So you don't want to say it?

[2:41:42] Okay, so we got some board appointments.

[2:41:44] We have.

[2:41:45] I'd like to.

[2:41:47] Point for the Board of Equalization Mr. Sandboxing and Mr. Kevin Lewis.

[2:41:52] Okay.

[2:41:54] Motion to accept as a second.

[2:41:57] Second.

[2:41:58] What was the famous AI?

[2:41:59] All right.

[2:42:00] All right. Okay. So we've got also.

[2:42:02] Welcome, Mr. Planning.

[2:42:04] We have orders on the field.

[2:42:05] I did speak with Mr. Hatton.

[2:42:07] Excuse me here.

[2:42:08] I'm very interested.

[2:42:09] Okay.

[2:42:10] And we'd love to serve in that capacity.

[2:42:11] So I'd like to make the motion.

[2:42:12] Point Mr. Hatton.

[2:42:13] Excuse me.

[2:42:14] Okay.

[2:42:15] Mr. Hatton.

[2:42:17] Thomas.

[2:42:18] Thomas.

[2:42:19] Oh, I'm sorry.

[2:42:21] That would be a recommendation for the circuit court.

[2:42:24] Correct.

[2:42:25] Okay.

[2:42:26] Okay.

[2:42:27] Is there.

[2:42:28] There's a motion.

[2:42:29] Is there a second.

[2:42:30] Yes.

[2:42:31] All those effects, AI?

[2:42:32] Yes.

[2:42:33] Great.

[2:42:34] What else do we have?

[2:42:35] We have.

[2:42:36] The store.

[2:42:37] Okay, maybe.

[2:42:39] And that.

[2:42:40] For these.

[2:42:41] From the store for committee's suggestion.

[2:42:45] Great.

[2:42:48] The first one listed.

[2:42:51] All three indicated their interest and availability.

[2:42:55] The first one had some background.

[2:42:58] That.

[2:42:59] Came in as a staff recommendation.

[2:43:02] Mm-hmm.

[2:43:03] As a good fit for the committee.

[2:43:04] Chris Chad.

[2:43:05] Chad Scott.

[2:43:06] I'm sorry.

[2:43:07] No, we haven't.

[2:43:09] No.

[2:43:10] I'm sorry that would be for the at large position.

[2:43:12] There's there are currently no pets worth volunteers in the volunteer board bank.

[2:43:17] Okay.

[2:43:18] So we have a donation food.

[2:43:20] The store.

[2:43:21] Committee for the at large.

[2:43:23] The guys are most accept.

[2:43:24] Just got.

[2:43:25] I'll make them.

[2:43:26] Second.

[2:43:27] All the papers.

[2:43:28] I.

[2:43:29] Okay.

[2:43:30] That.

[2:43:31] And then.

[2:43:32] The chair.

[2:43:33] Make the motion.

[2:43:34] The report.

[2:43:35] Rear point.

[2:43:36] The job.

[2:43:37] The motion.

[2:43:38] And this.

[2:43:39] The.

[2:43:40] The.

[2:43:41] The.

[2:43:42] The.

[2:43:43] The.

[2:43:44] Okay.

[2:43:46] Now.

[2:43:47] Right.

[2:43:48] Now.

[2:43:49] And the.

[2:43:50] Brown.

[2:43:51] Golden Warded Warded commissioner reports.

[2:43:56] If it none supervisor discussion.

[2:44:00] One item gentlemen.

[2:44:01] Okay.

[2:44:02] The next month.

[2:44:03] It gets Monday.

[2:44:06] We have the presentation of the budget by the steel as aShoepet.

[2:44:12] On the 50th,

[2:44:13] We have our meeting with the school board, correct?

[2:44:17] The 16th, we have a first budget meeting, right?

[2:44:21] Now, we are going to have to extend that meeting to the 23rd

[2:44:27] because we have to meet with the Berkeley group for just six prior to the

[2:44:33] budget meeting, the MDM, the public hearing.

[2:44:37] So on the 16th, we will be at the end of that meeting,

[2:44:41] extending that meeting to the 23rd at 4 o'clock,

[2:44:47] so that we continue the meeting because this way we will have to advertise

[2:44:51] the meeting as a special meeting.

[2:44:53] So just be extended meeting on the 23rd at 4 o'clock.

[2:44:57] We are looking for a room in TCC.

[2:45:00] We'll go from 46, and I talk to Ms. Cronin that since our meeting starts at 7, that we would arrange to have some dinner brought to us, so that we wouldn't have to go anywhere. And we could just stay there and then go to the public hearing, which would be a T.C. Walker at 7 o'clock in this week.

[2:45:19] We'll work about that. Okay. And if you else, if not, Mr. Wilmot call us into closed session, please.

[2:45:32] Where is the Gostric County Board of Supervisors, desires to discuss a particular subject in closed meeting during the course of its meeting of March 12, 2022?

[2:45:41] And where is the nature of the subject as discussion or consideration of the potential acquisition of an interest in real property for a public purpose?

[2:45:48] We're soon to Virginia Cadd section 2.2-371183 Main Street Library.

[2:45:53] Now, therefore, be resolved that the Gostric County Board of Supervisors is hereby convening closed meeting for the purpose here and express pursuant the legal authority and recited.

[2:46:01] Is there no second?

[2:46:03] Ms. Theo called a board.

[2:46:08] Mr. Hadret?

[2:46:09] Yes.

[2:46:10] Mr. Cazani?

[2:46:11] Yes.

[2:46:12] Mr. Gibson?

[2:46:13] Yes.

[2:46:14] Mr. Chrisco?

[2:46:15] Yes.

[2:46:16] Mr. Hartson?

[2:46:18] Yes.

[2:46:19] Mr. Hartson?

[2:46:20] Yes.

[2:46:43] Where is the Gostric County Board?

[2:46:45] Supervisors has completed its discussion and closed meeting and now desires to continue its open meeting.

[2:46:50] And where is only public business matters, lawfully exempted from open meeting or heard discussed or considered during the closed meeting?

[2:46:56] And the only subjects heard discussed or considered instead closed meeting were the matters identified in the resolution by which it was convening.

[2:47:02] Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Gostric County Board of Supervisors is hereby reconvening an open meeting and its meeting of March 12, 2022, and certifies the matters set forth in Virginia Cadd section 2.2-3712.

[2:47:14] So, second?

[2:47:15] That's that.

[2:47:16] Okay, all those in favor?

[2:47:17] I'm pulling the board.

[2:47:18] Mr. Cazani?

[2:47:20] Yes.

[2:47:21] Mr. Gibson?

[2:47:22] Mr. Chrisco?

[2:47:23] Yes.

[2:47:24] Mr. Smith?

[2:47:25] Yes.

[2:47:26] Dr. Morris?

[2:47:27] Mr. Hartson?

[2:47:28] Mr. Hadret?

[2:47:29] Yes.

[2:47:30] If there are no other matters for the board, is there mostly all those in favor say aye?

Board of Supervisors

Agenda

Transcript