[0:08] Well, good afternoon everyone and

[0:10] welcome to our special uh council

[0:12] meeting of Thursday, August 20, 2026.

[0:17] Uh welcome council. Uh councelor, you're

[0:19] on Zoom, so good morning or good

[0:21] afternoon. Happy birthday. uh welcome

[0:24] the uh gallery that's here today, our

[0:26] staff and those that are viewing from outside of this council chamber. So

[0:32] there was a published agenda uh that was

[0:34] on our website which I'm reading off

[0:36] today and uh it was a special council

[0:39] meeting that I called for you can see on

[0:41] the there's three items to uh to be

[0:43] dealt with today and

[0:46] it's a little abnormal to have a special

[0:48] council meeting but sometimes you have

[0:50] to call those within the proper notice

[0:53] but because of the election this year

[0:55] and uh they call lame duck uh certain

[0:59] financial decisions over 50,000 and

[1:02] cannot be made after tomorrow at 2,

[1:06] which I'm hearing a lot on the radio.

[1:08] So, yes, and it's a certain provision

[1:10] that uh lame duck councils and there's a

[1:13] certain provision that sort of spells

[1:14] out what lame duck councils are and

[1:16] that's where there could be a

[1:17] possibility of the same council not

[1:18] coming back. So part of that uh

[1:21] legislation that's through the province

[1:23] then uh there are three items on today's

[1:26] agenda that are dealing with uh a

[1:29] financial um decision. So that's why a

[1:32] special council meeting is called I just attended a special council

[1:36] meeting at the county the gray to deal

[1:38] with something similar a financial

[1:40] decision that had to be done. Council

[1:42] can still make decisions but not things

[1:45] that are going to affect it over

[1:47] $50,000. Somebody was asking are they

[1:49] made increments? Could you do I don't

[1:51] know. So anyway, that's why we're here

[1:52] today. And again, welcome everybody for

[1:54] attending. So on that agenda that uh is

[1:58] here, do we have any additions or

[2:00] deletions for today's agenda from

[2:02] council or staff? Got to ask. No, it

[2:06] says approval of the agenda. So if not,

[2:09] can I have a mover and a seconder for

[2:10] that? Councelor Owick, councelor Dubick.

[2:13] Any discussion on that agenda?

[2:17] If not, all in favor?

[2:20] That's carried. Since we have approved

[2:23] an agenda, do or approved. Yeah,

[2:24] approved agenda. Do we have any uh any

[2:27] interest with regards to those three

[2:28] items for council members? I got to make

[2:30] sure I look at the screen. See what was

[2:32] that? So, there's nothing declared at

[2:34] this time. If one does arise, we can uh

[2:37] you can declare it then.

[2:39] So the first item of business is item

[2:42] 4.1 and this is with regards to a

[2:44] proposed council chambers relocation and

[2:48] there is there is a report that is

[2:51] attached to the agenda that is there and

[2:54] uh I don't know madame CEO it's a report

[2:57] coming from yourself. Do you have

[2:58] anything you wish to add or describe in

[3:01] that uh agenda? There is a there is a

[3:03] motion here I will need to read off but

[3:04] I'll go to you right now. Uh thank you,

[3:07] Mayor McQueen. Three of you. Um so

[3:09] council's aware that we have been having

[3:11] discussions ongoing with the county and

[3:15] uh with the vacant space becoming

[3:17] available uh in the adjacent uh entrance

[3:20] way to this facility. Um we have been um

[3:26] in discussions with them about how the

[3:28] space could work uh for the

[3:31] municipality. I mean, today is a good

[3:33] example of of not having adequate space

[3:36] and adequate accessible space um uh to

[3:40] hold council meetings and and to receive

[3:43] um uh constituents into the building. Um

[3:48] I think at this point our capacity is 20

[3:52] additional people outside of staff and

[3:53] council. Um the space uh needs some

[3:56] work. Um but uh county staff have uh

[4:02] come to the table with with some options

[4:04] that they're still reviewing. Uh but we

[4:07] believe if the space is acquired, then

[4:12] there's opportunity for leasing out uh

[4:15] other municipal facilities that are

[4:18] vacant or that could be vacant uh to

[4:21] offset the additional rent. Um there is

[4:23] money in a reserve uh put aside for

[4:26] administrative uh building upgrades and

[4:28] we haven't done any I believe since the

[4:32] installation of our current equipment

[4:34] which is now obsolete.

[4:37] >> Uh so that would um that will need

[4:40] upgrading anyway. We just felt that it

[4:42] it's an opportunity uh to get a better

[4:46] space more accessible and upgrade the AV

[4:48] equipment so that uh um it's more

[4:52] supportive of our meetings.

[4:54] >> Okay. Thank you for that, Madam C. Any

[4:56] questions uh to the CEO?

[5:00] >> Councelor Duby.

[5:02] [clears throat]

[5:03] >> Uh thank you for the uh for the update.

[5:05] Um, you know, so it's it's a real

[5:07] benefit to be able to um move into new

[5:10] space where we can accommodate uh you

[5:12] know, more residents um and visitors uh

[5:14] to our meetings and also bring staff in

[5:18] to this building and um you know, house

[5:22] staff in one location is is a real

[5:24] benefit for for for work um and building

[5:28] those relations. Um I I was just

[5:31] wondering you know as you talk about you

[5:32] know so the importance of modernizing um

[5:35] our chambers and wondering um you know

[5:39] if in terms of considerations when you

[5:41] think about AV audio equipment um you

[5:46] know could we also just consider

[5:48] um you know the ability for to to be

[5:52] able to move those equipment if we were

[5:54] to be offsite safer like town halls etc.

[5:58] um you know some of those things can't

[5:59] always be um recorded you know I think

[6:03] we do have some restrictions you know in

[6:06] terms of our equipment but so not a

[6:08] question but just a comment you know if

[6:10] we can think about um offsite meetings

[6:13] and be being able to record them as well

[6:16] so thank you

[6:18] >> well any comments to that madam co

[6:21] >> or

[6:25] this is a hightech question

[6:32] » and I'm just going to turn my camera on.

[6:36] Thank you. Through you. Um, so we are

[6:38] having a few technical difficulties. So

[6:41] I did want to mention that. Um, for

[6:43] people that are trying to view it

[6:45] through the portal, it doesn't seem to

[6:47] be streaming through there, but we are

[6:49] live on YouTube. So we're just trying to

[6:51] work on that. That's was the one thing.

[6:52] And sorry, can you just repeat that

[6:54] question because I was troubleshooting.

[6:56] >> No, no, no. And and thank you for for

[6:59] doing double duty there. Thank

[7:00] [clears throat] you very much. And

[7:01] keeping everybody uh in tuned. Um so

[7:03] wondering you know as we think about our

[7:06] um technology and a you know audio AV

[7:09] equipment. Can we also consider u

[7:11] mobility of some of those those

[7:13] equipment? So when we do have meetings

[7:15] offsite like you know for example town

[7:17] halls um you know we do have some

[7:19] limitations and be able to record um you

[7:22] know those types of meetings and so

[7:24] consideration.

[7:26] Thank you through you. Um so a lot of

[7:29] the technology has changed in um since

[7:31] 2019 that was the year that um the

[7:34] current system was approved. So a lot of

[7:36] it is more wireless technology which

[7:38] would allow for movement. Some of it

[7:40] isn't. I mean, if you consider wireless,

[7:43] you do have to consider charging and all

[7:45] those things. And I do think the idea

[7:47] would be to have a, you know, a a

[7:50] designated council chambers spot. But in

[7:54] the project, we can definitely look at

[7:56] um, you know, some some technology that

[7:58] could be moved, um, some wireless

[8:00] technology or if there's anything that

[8:02] could be saved from the existing system

[8:04] that we could modify for an off-site um,

[8:07] option, we would do that.

[8:10] follow.

[8:12] I know there was a pretty big

[8:15] public meeting at one time that was held

[8:17] in the Markdale Arena Community Center

[8:20] and that was to do with Greg Gables.

[8:22] It's the biggest public meeting I ever

[8:24] did be part of and because the upstairs

[8:27] space was full and they had to put

[8:28] people downstairs. It was a it was a

[8:30] public meeting. It was for the county.

[8:32] But there are certain times when there

[8:33] are certain events you need more space

[8:35] because to accommodate more people. So

[8:38] now that our system is hybrid,

[8:42] that makes it a bit more tricky because

[8:43] you're live, right? So like if you had a

[8:46] public meeting where you're live and

[8:47] you're recording and people could stream

[8:49] it, the technology should be there as

[8:52] you're saying. So I guess that would be

[8:53] an example where or there's been times

[8:55] when we've had to move a council meeting

[8:57] into the egg office area because there

[9:00] wasn't enough space here as well. There

[9:01] were certain times I think there's times

[9:03] where we maybe Paul I'm trying to think

[9:05] if we had to go to a community center to

[9:06] have a a bigger meeting. I remember

[9:08] sometimes talking about doing it but

[9:10] then that was before we're hybrid. We're

[9:11] just a a regular council meeting or or a

[9:14] public meeting. So but uh certainly with

[9:17] technology and I'm sure there's other

[9:18] municipalities that have figured it out

[9:20] looking at Amanda

[9:23] that have figured it out and having that

[9:24] ability to move to a larger venue.

[9:27] Deputy mayor.

[9:30] >> Thank you mayor McQueen. I have a

[9:31] different question if I'm not trying to

[9:32] interrupt your trans

[9:33] >> just make sure there's anything there.

[9:34] Go ahead.

[9:35] >> Um so for you may a question I have so

[9:38] the report is asking for funds but also

[9:41] speaks to the idea that a future lease

[9:43] will have to come back to council. So

[9:45] the two questions kind of revolve around

[9:47] that scenario. One is does this body

[9:51] have the authority to sign off on a new

[9:53] lease during this term of council? we do

[9:54] have three more meetings if the

[9:55] negotiations happen and if we don't and

[9:58] the lease agreement is coming to the

[10:00] next term of council

[10:02] why allocate the funds before the lease

[10:04] is there so like kind of a what are we

[10:07] actually allowed to do within the

[10:08] linduct period I understand the

[10:09] financial aspect to it but if we can't

[10:11] sign off on the lease during this term

[10:13] period then why give them

[10:15] >> so I'll go back to you madam sea

[10:17] >> thank you and that's a really good

[10:19] question um so because we are already

[10:23] tenants of uh Gray County and we already

[10:28] leased this section of the building. Um

[10:30] it would be actually an amendment to the

[10:32] existing lease and I believe uh if

[10:36] council approves the project that we

[10:38] have delegation of authority to amend

[10:41] that lease um not enter into any new

[10:44] leases. Um and we suspect uh the terms

[10:48] would be very similar to uh the terms

[10:51] that we have for this lease. I I've been

[10:53] verbally told that. Uh what we don't

[10:56] know is how long renovations would take

[11:00] and which of the renovations uh the

[11:03] county would have to pay as the landlord

[11:05] versus uh nice to have so to speak in a

[11:08] lend in a rental uh uh position um from

[11:14] a tenant standpoint. Um so that all has

[11:18] to be worked out. Uh of course the

[11:20] county's in lame duck as well. um as of tomorrow. Uh so staff um I did

[11:26] meet with county staff and um we're

[11:30] hoping to get enough between the two

[11:32] budgets to to renovate the space and

[11:35] figure out um you know the leasing when the lease will actually kick in, so

[11:40] to speak, when it's actually uh able to

[11:44] be occupied. Um, from from the Grey

[11:47] Highland standpoint, um, we uh want to

[11:51] keep as much uh of the existing uh

[11:55] furniture and and things that we can. We

[11:58] did uh Jerry Lynn and I went uh rumaging

[12:01] up the talisman and were able to grab on

[12:04] to 40 um very nice chairs uh that we can

[12:09] use for a comfortable accessible gallery

[12:12] where police officers can sit with their

[12:14] belts on in the chairs. Um and we were

[12:17] able to grab those and and and pick them

[12:19] up. Uh so they're in storage in one of

[12:21] our uh transportation buildings right

[12:24] now. So, we're trying to utilize as much

[12:27] in-house as we can. Um, we understand

[12:30] the pressures on uh budget and and the

[12:33] pressures council's facing, but

[12:34] obviously the AV equipment is a is a big

[12:37] piece. The accessibility is a big piece.

[12:40] Although the county will have to as the

[12:43] landlord um foot the bill for accessible

[12:47] washrooms, uh door paddles, that kind of

[12:49] thing, there may be some aesthetic uh

[12:52] features that we might look at. Um we're

[12:56] still discussing they're they're looking

[12:58] at doing a whole retrofit of all the

[13:00] lighting in the buildings. Um, but we

[13:03] were looking and I know council had the

[13:05] opportunity to look at the space at um some cosmetic

[13:10] uh painting and and um uh the ceiling

[13:15] and and you know uh there's a a wall

[13:19] that we might want to take out that the

[13:20] county wouldn't foot the bill for, but

[13:23] we we Jerry Lyn and I have looked at it

[13:25] and we may be able to make this

[13:28] furniture work with that wall. We don't

[13:30] know until we get this furniture in

[13:32] there and then we we'd have to decide.

[13:34] Um so it is an upset limit with the

[13:37] majority of it going towards AV and

[13:40] accessible um uh furniture and

[13:43] equipment.

[13:44] >> Any followup? Go ahead.

[13:46] >> Thank you very much. That does clarify

[13:48] kind of my first question. um not a

[13:52] question, more of a comment I guess is

[13:56] I understand the idea of having all the

[13:59] staff on the same site, right? Like so

[14:01] we do have residents that come into this

[14:03] space looking for building department uh

[14:06] permits and approvals and then they have

[14:07] they get told sorry that's not here you

[14:09] have to go around and vice versa staff

[14:11] or residents will go to the 150 Lauren

[14:13] Street and be told the same thing oh

[14:14] sorry that's not us you have to go back

[14:16] to the other site and so I really do

[14:18] appreciate the benefit of having all

[14:21] staff on site when I look at this space

[14:24] myself and I and and let's agree that

[14:28] today is a good example of why we might

[14:29] need a new space in terms of the

[14:31] residents that are here in this space to

[14:33] uh here for a different item. Um but

[14:35] that doesn't happen very frequently and

[14:37] my concern is um

[14:41] having council

[14:43] move chambers, move location,

[14:46] the to myself and my own personal

[14:49] opinion, the optics of

[14:52] um that location walking through other

[14:55] places isn't a very professional

[14:57] entrance into the space. I also have

[15:00] concerns of removing in what I feel is

[15:03] being removing staff and council or

[15:04] separating staff and council further.

[15:06] There isn't there is a walk space that

[15:08] we know exists but it's not an open

[15:10] transparent public walkspace between

[15:12] that location that space and this space.

[15:15] Um so I have challenges with that. I

[15:18] also have challenges with if we look at

[15:20] the physical footprint of council

[15:22] chambers and even the small meeting

[15:23] spaces that's connected that's kind of

[15:25] works as you know council's um

[15:28] coffee tea space doesn't actually

[15:32] provide and I don't think it provides

[15:34] enough space to move all the staff over

[15:35] from 150 Lauren whereas the other

[15:37] location the other space that we're

[15:38] looking at for council chambers provides

[15:40] more of that space to be able to bring

[15:41] all the staff under one roof having

[15:43] planning building and facilities and um

[15:47] Sorry, the parks and recck team. I

[15:49] realize that, you know, water and sewer

[15:50] and transportation teams aren't exactly

[15:52] going to be moving into this building.

[15:53] That's not the goal, but having all of

[15:55] our uh in-house people on the same site.

[15:58] So, I have I I see the need to lease the

[16:02] space to make sure that we don't lose

[16:04] the opportunity to utilize it for

[16:06] ourselves. Um, but I don't necessarily

[16:09] agree with the idea of moving council

[16:10] chambers to that space. I think

[16:12] municipality needs it, yes, but how

[16:14] we're going to use it maybe is still up

[16:15] for discussion and debate. I don't know

[16:18] what that means for today's discussion.

[16:19] I I personally would say the discussion

[16:21] is that staff should be directed to look

[16:23] into leasing that space so it doesn't

[16:24] get lost, that we don't see it get to

[16:26] another organization that may have

[16:28] another need for it because I do see the

[16:30] value in it. But I think the discussion

[16:32] of what the final decision of what

[16:35] that's going to be is still open for

[16:36] interpretation and perhaps not something

[16:38] that

[16:39] this body should do with this little

[16:42] time left in this tournament. So thanks

[16:44] very much madam CEO. Thanks.

[16:47] >> Um thank you and uh through through

[16:50] Mayor McQueen. Um so this room is not

[16:54] accessible and and we're not just

[16:57] looking at it from the standpoint of

[16:58] residents coming or staff. We're looking

[17:00] at it from a standpoint of the council

[17:03] um disas itself. If if we're we're

[17:07] facing an election, if if we have um uh

[17:11] somebody voted in who who requires uh

[17:14] space for a wheelchair, we we don't have

[17:18] that space. We need it's the law. We

[17:20] need to be accessible. So the chambers

[17:24] uh is is the biggest requirement. It's

[17:27] the thing that we've we've shifted this

[17:30] desk around so many times trying to make

[17:33] it work. It doesn't work and frankly

[17:35] doesn't comply with legislation. So, we

[17:38] need to look at an accessible public

[17:41] council chambers uh for staff, for um

[17:44] constituents, and for council members as

[17:47] well. Um so, that would be the priority.

[17:52] There is office space over there that

[17:54] can be utilized um for overflow staff.

[17:58] Uh we do have um some remote workers

[18:01] that are not in office um all the time

[18:04] but are here periodically um that we

[18:07] could have landing stations set up for.

[18:10] Um we could also have landing stations

[18:12] set up for council members. Right now

[18:13] Mayor McQueen is the only council member

[18:15] with office space. Um, so we're looking

[18:18] at uh office uh an office or landing

[18:22] spots for members of council. I know

[18:24] councel dubits have many meetings in

[18:26] council chambers outside of uh council

[18:29] meetings. Um so we're looking at those

[18:31] opportunities. Um but there is overflow

[18:34] office space. Um we also have uh in our

[18:38] building department uh we are moving

[18:40] things around taskwise

[18:43] where the building inspectors themselves

[18:46] will be on the road more than doing the

[18:48] plans examination and and having one

[18:51] plans examiner building inspector

[18:54] inhouse. So we're looking at those

[18:56] opportunities as well. Um and uh frankly

[19:01] this point in time with most of the

[19:04] documents on uh in electronic version um

[19:09] office space desk requirements are

[19:12] getting smaller. Um so there is

[19:14] opportunity to update workstations in

[19:18] the future to create more space. Uh but

[19:20] some of the existing spaces that we have

[19:23] in this uh side of the building right

[19:25] now are not wheelchair accessible. Um so

[19:29] we we need to look at that and ensure

[19:31] that it is. Um, so that will be part of

[19:34] the picture, but our focus on council

[19:36] chambers is that it needs to be an

[19:39] accessible space and it needs it needs

[19:41] to meet the legislation. And then we'll

[19:43] deal with the overflow and the staff uh

[19:46] stations uh at a later piece because

[19:49] they're smaller challenges at this

[19:51] point. Any follow? Any follow

[19:54] [clears throat] up? Just my office is

[19:56] available for everyone

[20:02] else.

[20:04] >> Thank you, Mayor McQueen. So, I was

[20:06] wondering about the urgency also um why

[20:10] this is being brought actually to the

[20:13] very last almost the very last day. Um,

[20:17] you've answered the CEO has answered

[20:20] some of that, but

[20:23] we don't have lease costing.

[20:27] Um, so we're authorizing some spending

[20:30] of money before we have lease costing

[20:33] and maybe we would be given that costing

[20:36] before the money is spent. I'm not sure.

[20:42] My main concern is well, two things.

[20:44] Deputy Mayor touched on the the

[20:46] separation. Somebody comes in here

[20:49] looking for a certain apartment, it's

[20:51] over there, they've got to go back

[20:52] outside, over there, outside. If there

[20:55] was a more direct route maybe, and

[20:58] they're having to walk past um another

[21:01] organization to get to council chambers,

[21:06] but I really wonder if we should be

[21:08] making this decision for the new council

[21:12] as of now. and we still have about 24

[21:15] hours, but right now there is only one

[21:19] council member that is guaranteed to be

[21:22] back. And again, that could change

[21:24] between now and this time tomorrow. So,

[21:28] I I don't feel that we should be making

[21:31] a decision the very last day for a new

[21:35] council. Thank you.

[21:38] Any other comments?

[21:42] Oh, hold on. A response. Madam CEO Ben.

[21:45] >> Uh, thank you. I just want to clarify

[21:47] that yes, this is a decision on the

[21:50] table today and yes, it's the last day

[21:51] before lame duck, but this we've been

[21:53] discussing this for 18 months. Like it's

[21:57] not new uh to council. It it's just that

[22:00] we found obviously when you're heading

[22:02] towards lame duck, you start looking at

[22:04] the list of outstanding items and

[22:06] thinking, well, we need to have a

[22:08] decision on this if we wanted to make it

[22:11] to move forward. we need a decision on.

[22:13] So, it just came down to what's on the

[22:15] list that we don't have decisions for

[22:17] that we need or may need decisions for

[22:20] during the lame duck period. Um, but you

[22:23] know, it's been an ongoing discussion

[22:25] with council that we have been looking

[22:27] at kids and us and council's had uh the

[22:29] opportunity to tour the space. Um, it's

[22:32] just not been high on our priority list

[22:35] for obvious reasons. We've had a lot of

[22:37] other more pressing priorities. Um, but

[22:40] if we want to go ahead with the space,

[22:42] um, as deputy mayor said, we don't want

[22:44] to lose the opportunity of of, uh, the

[22:47] county advertising and and losing that

[22:50] space. So either way, um, you know,

[22:54] we'll we'll make it work. Um, it's what

[22:57] we do, but, uh, we are not compliant

[23:01] with accessibility.

[23:03] >> Yeah, thank you for that, M. I think

[23:05] Yes.

[23:06] >> Oh, yes. Yes, I saw Joe, but I got

[23:08] councelor Alwood first and councelor Joe

[23:10] Lhead.

[23:13] >> Thank you, member McQueen for you. I

[23:15] mean, we uh this is not a nice to have

[23:17] thing. The accessibility issue is real.

[23:19] Um the inefficiencies and obsolescence

[23:22] of AV equipment is a real problem and

[23:25] the fact that this space is currently

[23:27] available but may not be available uh if

[23:29] we don't move on it. Uh I I think we

[23:32] need to to do something today. Thank

[23:35] you. Okay.

[23:38] Any response? No. Okay. Go ahead,

[23:40] Council Lohead.

[23:43] >> Thank you, Mayor McQueen. And um

[23:45] apologies, I I can't be in chambers

[23:47] today. It's actually my my wife's

[23:49] grandfather's 92nd birthday tomorrow, so

[23:52] um in Ottawa, so I wasn't able to make

[23:53] it home. Um but uh I'm agreeing here

[23:57] with uh with Councelor Allen in regards

[23:59] to um this decision being made by this

[24:02] council for for future councils. Um it's

[24:05] a a point well taken that only one is

[24:07] guaranteed to remain uh going forward.

[24:10] Um this is a big decision and I

[24:12] understand um staff's um the the urgency

[24:15] with which staff brought this forward to

[24:17] make sure that they they got this off of

[24:18] the list. I mean this is at the last day

[24:20] to deal with this in this term of

[24:21] council. Um but it's uh it's a big

[24:23] decision. It comes with a a big price

[24:26] tag um at a time when we're facing a lot

[24:29] uh increasing um budgetary pressures. Um

[24:32] I [clears throat] I have a feeling that

[24:34] uh the next term of council um may very

[24:38] well not agree with this decision and I

[24:41] think it's their council chambers and

[24:42] their decision to make. Um so although I

[24:45] understand that we we're not perfectly

[24:47] in compliance with accessibility uh

[24:49] legislation currently as our CEO says

[24:51] we're able to make things work. Um, I

[24:54] have a feeling we'll be able to make

[24:55] this work and I I uh think that this

[24:57] decision should be deferred to the next

[25:00] term of council, the upcoming term of

[25:02] council and um that council can make

[25:04] this decision.

[25:07] >> Okay. I will read the I will will read

[25:10] the resolution and if somebody cares put

[25:12] it on the table or what's your wish

[25:14] counc

[25:18] um to our CEO what is the risk if we do

[25:21] not um move ahead with uh with this

[25:25] motion as presented. Thank you.

[25:28] >> Go ahead.

[25:30] >> Thank you Mayor McQueen to you. Um so

[25:32] obviously the risk is losing prime real

[25:35] estate right next door. Uh I know it's

[25:37] not ideal and not in one building. Um if

[25:40] we uh are at capacity or um I don't want

[25:46] to go down the human rights side of

[25:48] things but um are forced uh to to

[25:54] make our space accessible by the

[25:56] province for some reason. Um we may have

[26:00] to look at alternative

[26:03] uh facilities. We do have a very decent

[26:08] uh rental agreement with the county. Um

[26:11] they've been um very good uh with their

[26:14] rental rates. Um and and they have told

[26:17] me that the same square footage rate

[26:20] will apply to the kids and us space. Um

[26:23] it's just a matter of you know like I

[26:26] said amending the existing lease. So no price increase per square foot. Um so

[26:32] those are the risks. uh if if if we're

[26:35] forced into relocating at least the

[26:39] council chambers and and uh making

[26:42] everybody's workstation accessible. Uh I

[26:45] don't know where we would find a space

[26:48] large enough uh within Grey Islands to

[26:52] accommodate everything. So that's a bit

[26:54] of a risk. um we can look at uh dividing

[26:57] and and splitting up and housing people

[27:00] in other locations uh across the

[27:03] municipality. We do have the Rockland

[27:05] Schoolhouse that is vacant. Um uh that's

[27:09] a possibility. Um but other than that,

[27:13] uh we're talking about facilities like

[27:15] our community halls or or uh the complex

[27:19] for overflow. So,

[27:21] >> so just before I go to another calls

[27:24] here, I guess um I'm sort of seeking if

[27:28] there is I hear support support for

[27:31] possibly a lease or deferring it. So, I

[27:33] just want to throw that out there that

[27:35] before I read it off if there's some

[27:36] direction for me then I'll take that.

[27:39] So, I'll get councelor Allen first and

[27:41] then

[27:43] >> Well, I was going to make a motion and I

[27:47] guess a question through you to the

[27:48] clerk.

[27:50] If this is just received for

[27:52] information,

[27:54] can it be brought back

[27:57] to new council? Okay. in the same

[28:01] basically the same

[28:04] >> M court. [clears throat]

[28:10] » Um through you mayor McQueen. Thank you

[28:12] for that question. If this is received

[28:14] for information essentially the uh

[28:17] project is done. Um so I would say no.

[28:22] This would not be brought back to the

[28:23] new council if this was just received

[28:25] for information.

[28:27] >> Okay. So you could receive information

[28:29] and be directed to go to the new new

[28:32] council.

[28:32] >> Yeah. Well, I think all we'd have to do

[28:35] and I'll make the motion is to defer

[28:37] this to new council.

[28:41] » Okay. Is that a proper procedure, Madam

[28:43] Madame Clerk?

[28:47] >> Just want to make sure we're

[28:48] procedurally.

[28:52] » Um, so for a deferral, we need a time.

[28:55] So um and a purpose

[28:59] for the deferral.

[29:01] >> Well, the purpose would be for the next

[29:03] council to decide and the time would be

[29:05] in

[29:07] within the next available council uh agenda.

[29:12] >> No, I don't think we should have it at

[29:13] the first council meeting.

[29:16] >> No,

[29:17] >> when staff feels that new council is

[29:19] ready to make an informed decision.

[29:24] >> Okay. I I you're you're dropping a

[29:26] motion. So I want to make sure we drop

[29:28] that motion before I ask for a second.

[29:29] Now councelor Lohead, are you are you

[29:31] seconding that or Okay.

[29:36] Now there is the issue around the lease

[29:39] and securing that lease which I think

[29:40] you said something. Could the lease and

[29:42] while that's being drafted I guess

[29:43] through you madam to you madam co can

[29:45] the draft if if that was part of could

[29:47] the could the leasing still be

[29:50] secured or discussing could that come

[29:52] back to this current council

[29:55] madame clerk I'm stepping out of order

[29:58] [laughter]

[29:59] >> um through you mayor McQueen if we are

[30:01] putting a deferral motion on the floor

[30:02] that's all we can discuss is the

[30:04] deferral so I want to be clear that if

[30:06] council has intentions of doing part of

[30:09] this motion

[30:10] >> I'm thinking Yeah,

[30:11] >> then we should not put a deferral on

[30:13] just yet.

[30:14] >> But it is councelor Allen's wishes. So I

[30:17] want to kind of go back there

[30:18] >> and that's it's very important he knows

[30:20] all the aspects of what he's getting

[30:22] himself ahead of here. Go ahead.

[30:24] >> I'm making a motion to defer the whole

[30:26] thing because we don't need a lease

[30:29] agreement if new council decides not to

[30:31] go forward.

[30:33] >> Okay, it's pretty clear. Council

[30:34] Lowhead, were you seconding that?

[30:37] Okay, that motion's on the floor. Deputy

[30:39] mayor

[30:41] Thank you very much, Mayor McQueen. I

[30:43] would think that we should be a bit more

[30:44] specific with when the deferring is

[30:46] happening. Um, I would disagree that the

[30:49] first meeting of council uh isn't the

[30:52] best one. Part of this is a budgetary

[30:54] discussion. Part of this is

[30:56] understanding what the cost might be.

[30:57] So, if you want the next term of council

[31:00] to take a look at this and consider it,

[31:02] then it should be considered

[31:05] right away so that there can be a budget

[31:07] discussion as part of the 2027 budget.

[31:09] And then that way um you're not

[31:13] potentially losing an entire year like

[31:14] at the part of the leasing cost and all

[31:16] that kind of stuff would be part of that

[31:17] discussion. Um and then I think it could

[31:20] be a bit more successful. So that's my

[31:25] sorry I didn't look under my paper.

[31:26] Amend a deferral to the actual specific

[31:29] date of the first regular council

[31:31] meeting of the next term.

[31:33] >> So point of order your point.

[31:36] >> Yeah. I mean if if the motion to defer

[31:37] is on the floor moved and second it is

[31:40] not debatable. The only thing that's

[31:41] discussed is the time

[31:44] >> and discuss time

[31:45] >> no amendments can be made

[31:47] >> right amendments. Yeah. So madam clerk

[31:50] can you read the motion off so that

[31:52] everybody's clear with the motion and

[31:53] then I got councelor Wickens

[32:00] the deferral motion. You can't make

[32:02] amendment to a deferral motion.

[32:08] little bar here somewhere

[32:10] >> through you, Mayor McQueen. Um, that

[32:11] council defer the consideration of this

[32:14] report uh to the new term of council.

[32:17] >> Yep. And I'm would presume that the

[32:21] first meeting of the new council would

[32:22] be in the early part of December

[32:24] generally, right?

[32:26] >> Well, there'll be one in November.

[32:30] Oh, no. The first meeting the first

[32:31] meeting of council

[32:33] >> sheet says it can be amended and can be

[32:35] debated and I both like to amend it.

[32:39] >> Okay, hang on. Hang on. So I'm I got if

[32:40] you're pointing point I got I got to

[32:42] check this out. So uh this is for a

[32:45] deferral

[32:47] and it says uh debatable. Yes.

[32:50] Amendable. Yes.

[32:53] >> Madam clarity on that madam clerk.

[32:56] [laughter]

[32:56] >> Through you mayor McQueen. You can't

[32:59] amend the deferred part. What you can

[33:01] amend is the time in which it's deferred

[33:03] to.

[33:05] So yes, that is debatable and amendable.

[33:08] >> The spe the the specifics of the

[33:11] deferral.

[33:12] >> Yes,

[33:12] >> you're clear. Okay. Are you making

[33:15] amendment?

[33:16] >> I will amend to defer to the first

[33:18] regular meeting of the new term of

[33:19] council.

[33:19] >> Do I have a second for that? Councelor

[33:21] Duby. And that's what I was trying to

[33:23] get clarity when that was going to be.

[33:25] >> Okay. I got councelor Duby. I did want

[33:26] to catch councelor Wickkins because he

[33:28] hasn't spoke yet but uh I'll allow the amendment to to stand because

[33:33] it's sort of small to the main part. So

[33:35] go ahead councelor Dubick you wish to

[33:36] speak to the amendment. Yeah, but just

[33:39] in in support of that um I think it is

[33:41] like I think timing here is also

[33:42] important so that we continue to um make

[33:45] a decision sooner than later and um it

[33:48] is something that you know should be put

[33:50] so agree in terms of you know it should

[33:52] be put you know on the first meeting

[33:54] possible for the new council. Um we you

[33:58] know we don't want to lose it. Um you

[34:00] know the county you know if we defer it

[34:02] too long the county u may not have

[34:04] confidence in us to to move through with

[34:07] it. Thank you.

[34:08] >> I I would say we probably been a pretty

[34:10] good tenant

[34:12] and we pay our bills. I see them. They

[34:14] sign off on them. Okay. Anything? Do you

[34:17] want to speak to the deferral, Council

[34:18] Rickens? Because I know you wanted to

[34:19] speak to the main.

[34:22] >> No, no, I realize that. So, that's what

[34:24] I'm saying. Do you want to speak to the amendment that's on the floor,

[34:27] Council Rickens?

[34:28] >> Yeah. I'll I'll say that I'll support

[34:31] the amendment because I mean we went

[34:34] over and rese

[34:42] uh we don't know how many seats we're

[34:44] going to gain in the gallery. We don't

[34:46] know how much it's going to cost us

[34:49] uh for the renting of it and we haven't

[34:52] seen a design.

[34:53] >> We don't know what the place is going to

[34:54] look like. I got to be careful not to

[34:56] >> I know but there's a lot of stuff we

[34:58] don't know. So I'm just saying I'm

[35:00] supporting

[35:01] >> the deferral. How's that?

[35:03] >> Well the deferral right now as to the

[35:04] first council meeting. We're still going

[35:05] to come back to the main motion. Yeah.

[35:07] Okay. I'll come back to you. And just

[35:08] for clarity there was a statement. Do

[35:10] you wish to clarify that statement with

[35:12] regards to kids or back

[35:14] >> for a point of clarity? Kids and us is

[35:16] not in the location that the staff are

[35:18] looking at. Kids and us is taking over a

[35:20] smaller portion in the front of the

[35:21] building.

[35:22] >> Yeah.

[35:22] >> So it is

[35:24] >> Yeah. and they're still not there.

[35:25] That's my clarity. They're still not in

[35:27] this space with time.

[35:29] >> Okay. So, the amendment that's on the

[35:30] floor is to bring it to the first

[35:32] meeting of the new council.

[35:34] >> That I'm clear on that council or madam

[35:37] clerk.

[35:38] >> Just for clarity, I put the first

[35:39] regular meeting because I don't want it

[35:41] to come to the inaugural. [laughter]

[35:44] >> Yeah, that's that's that's good. No.

[35:47] Okay. Any last discussion on the

[35:50] amendment to the deferral?

[35:53] Seeing none. All in favor?

[35:56] Opposed?

[35:58] That's carried. Okay. Council Rickens,

[36:01] do you wish to add anything else to the

[36:03] motion that has been amended? The

[36:04] deferral that has been amended. Do you

[36:07] wish to speak to

[36:08] >> No, it's all good.

[36:12] » Okay. So, the main motion is on the

[36:14] floor is to defer it with the time. Any

[36:17] last uh discussion on it being deferred

[36:20] to the new council at the first regular

[36:23] council meeting?

[36:26] Any last comments from staff? Seeing

[36:28] none, all in favor?

[36:31] Opposed? That is carried. Okay. So,

[36:36] these trusty little sheets come in handy

[36:38] once in a while.

[36:40] All right. Moving on then to the next

[36:44] item, which is uh that saved me reading

[36:46] that all off. So, next item is 4.2, the

[36:49] Flesherin uh depot roof replacement.

[36:53] And I'm just going to pull it back here

[36:55] to pull that up. [clears throat]

[36:57] So, this was brought to our last council

[37:00] meeting with regards to an urgent

[37:02] circumstance that has arose with the

[37:05] Flesherin depot. There is a a motion

[37:08] there. There's a report. I don't know

[37:10] your staff or Chris, do you wish to add

[37:12] anything to that report? Uh, director

[37:14] Kornfield.

[37:20] » Um, through you, Mayor McQueen. Uh, no.

[37:22] Um, but obviously if there's questions,

[37:24] uh, we'll answer those bill.

[37:25] >> It was on our published agenda, so I'll

[37:27] go out then to council with and then

[37:29] I'll I'll read the motion here if

[37:31] there's feeling toward that. Go ahead,

[37:33] councelor Allen.

[37:34] >> I'll move the motion as written.

[37:37] Council Rickens a second. So, I'll read

[37:39] it that council receives sorry, council

[37:42] received report TPS

[37:44] 26- uh27 Flesher depot roof replacement

[37:49] for information and that council directs

[37:51] staff to award the Flesher depot roof

[37:54] replacement project to HB by

[37:56] construction and engineering as a

[37:59] limited tender under section D4 and that

[38:02] council authorize an upset limit of

[38:06] $280,000.

[38:08] Sorry. $280,000 excluding HST to be

[38:11] funded from the facility reserve. And

[38:14] that's been moved by councelor Allen,

[38:16] second by councelor Wicens.

[38:19] Discussion.

[38:22] Any discussion?

[38:24] All right. Seeing none, all in favor?

[38:28] That is carried unanimously. Okay. Well,

[38:30] that's we've been on now to 4.3.

[38:34] Okay.

[38:36] So, uh, 4.3, this is regards to the

[38:40] Rocklin Arena phase one investigation

[38:43] and stabilization update and we have,

[38:46] uh, director, uh, Krauss here today, and

[38:49] there is a report there. Uh, I don't

[38:53] know, Shaunette, if you have any, uh,

[38:55] comments or any any other things you

[38:58] wish to add with regards to that report.

[39:00] >> Uh, the report uh, stands as is.

[39:02] Unfortunately, I don't have anything new

[39:04] uh to report at this point in time other

[39:07] than Belffor is working away at uh the

[39:11] investigation at this point as well too.

[39:13] I do want to bring up a few one more

[39:15] item though. Um I know there's been a

[39:18] lot of concern and and uh that in

[39:21] regards to some of the remediation staff

[39:23] walking in and out of the building uh

[39:25] without PPE. I do want to make it very

[39:27] clear to to council and the public that

[39:30] they have a cleaned area when they get

[39:33] into the building. Um, everything is

[39:35] sectioned off in there. So, yes, you

[39:36] will see people in and out and I know

[39:38] that is a concern, but they are they do

[39:41] have their PPE on in there and

[39:42] respirators. So, I just wanted to make

[39:44] that uh publicly known as well too

[39:46] because I know it's been a concern for

[39:47] some people out there as well. But at

[39:49] this point, no, I don't have anything

[39:51] further to update, but we will have the

[39:52] final reports as of next week. Um some

[39:55] of the uh tests are at the uh the

[39:58] laboratory uh taking place and there'll

[40:00] be more testing as well too within the

[40:02] week as well.

[40:03] >> And I think in the report you have

[40:05] indicated that there is um

[40:09] machines or equipment in there trying to

[40:11] do you want to speak to that at all

[40:13] please?

[40:14] >> Uh they do currently have air scrubbers

[40:16] and air management systems in there. So

[40:18] what that does, it takes the particles

[40:20] out of the air um so they can further

[40:23] investigate that area without further

[40:25] contamination taking place. So

[40:27] >> and have they indicated a certain area

[40:29] that has more than other areas that have

[40:30] more that's coming in that report?

[40:32] >> At this point they haven't said uh too much. Um there is there's quite a

[40:37] few as as we all know with the testing

[40:39] and that that was done before. Um but

[40:41] they will have those recommendations and

[40:44] uh results definitely moving forward

[40:46] next week. And will that be available

[40:47] for September 2nd?

[40:49] >> Yes.

[40:49] >> Would that be? Okay. All right.

[40:52] Questions from council members. So,

[40:54] there is a there is a recommended uh

[40:58] resolution there, but uh go ahead,

[41:00] Deputy Mayor.

[41:02] >> Uh right now, I'll just move the motion

[41:03] to get on the floor for discussion.

[41:05] >> Yeah. Do I have a second dub? So, the

[41:09] council receives report CSD

[41:13] 26.22

[41:15] 22 Rockland Arena phase one

[41:16] investigation and stabilization update

[41:19] for for information and that's moved by

[41:22] Deputy Mayor Nilson second by councelor

[41:25] Dubik. Discussion

[41:28] councelor Dubik.

[41:31] >> Uh thank you Mayor McQueen. Um so just a

[41:34] question for staff. Um, so the Rockland

[41:37] fall fair is coming up and and I do want

[41:40] to thank everybody um for cooperating um

[41:43] you know between community um and staff

[41:46] so that the fall fair can be another

[41:49] success as it always is. Um and we do so

[41:53] there are um accommodations that need to

[41:55] be made. Um I do understand um you know

[41:58] that the egg society has been working

[42:01] with staff to provide a list of items to

[42:04] make sure that they do have what they

[42:06] need. Um so just a question to staff,

[42:09] could you just provide us um an update

[42:11] in terms of you know how is that going?

[42:13] Um and B, um are there any financial

[42:17] implications that need to be considered,

[42:19] you know, given the fact that they're

[42:20] moving out of the regular facility and

[42:23] possibly needing to rent tents, etc. to

[42:27] facilitate to facilitate the event.

[42:30] Thank you,

[42:31] >> Director Rose.

[42:33] >> Mayor McQueen to councelor Dubick. Yes,

[42:35] actually the fair has been really great.

[42:37] They've provided a nice email of what is

[42:39] needed and what they have already. Uh we

[42:41] will be going in. staff will um be going

[42:44] to the facility next week. We will

[42:46] coordinate that with the fair and have

[42:48] those items removed from the building by

[42:51] the remediators. There was a request uh

[42:54] to use an alternate facility. We are

[42:56] actually looking into that at the moment

[42:58] to see um its cleanliness and and if

[43:02] it's up to up to par and that to to host

[43:04] such a such an event as well too. So

[43:07] that you will have an answer to that as

[43:08] well too. In regards to finances, yes.

[43:11] Um the group has asked for chairs and

[43:15] such items. Um other things may come up

[43:19] between now and then as well too. That's

[43:22] all underneath the 50,000 threshold and can be decided upon I'm sure um if

[43:28] need be if we're in a lame duck

[43:30] situation.

[43:33] any followup or and I know you had a

[43:36] meeting last Thursday with the community

[43:38] group and I I want to thank Shet for

[43:40] providing some information for that

[43:42] meeting. I think that was important and

[43:44] a continuation of information is always

[43:47] important as well, right? So, council

[43:49] councelor Allen,

[43:51] >> thank you.

[43:54] I was really hoping that we

[43:57] would have had a report for this

[44:00] meeting. Me too.

[44:01] >> But obviously not so that we could have

[44:04] made an informed decision. I'm just

[44:07] thinking of all the things and I've made

[44:10] a a list. I could be missing things.

[44:12] There's the ice plant, remediation of

[44:15] mold, perhaps remediation of asbestous,

[44:19] reconstruction costs, HVAC equipment

[44:22] replacement, and then other equipment,

[44:26] I'll call it, like mats and things that

[44:28] I'm sure they're a lot of the things are

[44:30] going to be just thrown out as opposed

[44:32] to

[44:32] >> we rent the mats.

[44:34] >> Okay. All right.

[44:35] >> Yeah, but it'll have to be changed. So,

[44:40] is that a million dollars or is it two

[44:43] million or is it 5 million? We have no

[44:47] idea. Um I just

[44:54] I'll just end it there because I I don't

[44:56] know what we're going to do, what we can

[44:58] do at this point. So, so a thought I had

[45:00] mentioned at our last meeting or the

[45:01] special meeting was is could they get

[45:03] the arena open before the other part the

[45:07] arena is the big part for the for the

[45:08] winter ice surface time and uh um I have

[45:13] some comments I'll add maybe in a minute

[45:15] but you know is it in bite size and and

[45:18] I understand from the 2012 report that

[45:21] there were some indication of some

[45:23] pressure they went in with pressure

[45:24] washes and it cleaned the arena out that

[45:26] was able to be done. Go ahead, council.

[45:28] >> But to me, we still need to know

[45:32] those other costs. If they say, "Okay,

[45:34] to get the arena going, it's it's

[45:38] 600,000 or, you know, 200,000 or a

[45:41] million.

[45:44] Do we put that money into it not knowing

[45:47] what the other half is going to cost

[45:48] us?" There comes a point when we have to

[45:51] decide, is this something that we can

[45:54] fix or do we replace?

[45:58] like if if the hall is to the point

[46:00] where it's going to cost millions of

[46:02] dollars, tear it down and build a new

[46:04] hall.

[46:05] >> Um like we're starting I think I think

[46:09] we're some of us are thinking

[46:13] to throw money at this not knowing what

[46:17] the total cost is.

[46:21] » Yeah, there's there's a bit of unknown

[46:23] for sure. I guess the point is from what

[46:25] I've seek from clarity here from staff

[46:27] was if this is left and there's no upset

[46:30] limit of any money to be spent so

[46:31] basically receive it for information

[46:33] then it's dealt with the new council

[46:35] which I think the first meeting is in

[46:38] December some point of time does that

[46:41] mean that this winter season for the

[46:43] hockey is is no longer I think that's the big issue because we because

[46:48] up until today this body can have an

[46:50] upset upset limit to what that could

[46:53] maybe to get the ice surface open. If

[46:56] not, after tomorrow, it goes to the new

[46:59] council and that information and and

[47:01] even that report comes forward on the

[47:02] 2nd.

[47:04] Any money under 50,000, which could be

[47:07] small for the fair, and get that stuff

[47:09] going,

[47:10] it's lost. Madam clerk,

[47:14] through you, Mayor McQueen, I just

[47:15] wanted to comment um that staff reports

[47:17] are actually due tomorrow for the

[47:18] meeting on the 2nd. So, if we didn't

[47:20] have the information today, I highly

[47:22] doubt we're going to have it in time for

[47:23] the second,

[47:24] >> right?

[47:25] >> Just just if we can, great. If we can't,

[47:28] >> yeah,

[47:29] >> well,

[47:29] >> just be prepared.

[47:30] >> It just I think the fair is on the 20,

[47:32] what's the date of the M the Rockland

[47:34] fair and if that doesn't come into the

[47:35] second meeting in September, that could

[47:37] be problematic as well.

[47:40] Do you have any comment to that? Uh,

[47:42] Director Gross. No, I do. Okay.

[47:46] >> Sure. uh through you I know uh it has

[47:48] been mentioned um once we get those

[47:50] reports and know what's going on there

[47:53] um I did speak to Belffor as requested

[47:55] by council after our last meeting there

[47:58] and they're okay to section off and work

[48:01] on that arena area as a priority but

[48:04] again it all comes down to I don't know

[48:07] how much it's going to cost we don't

[48:09] have that information in front of us at this point yet as far as the fair

[48:14] goes I think um I feel that we have of

[48:17] good working relationship and we'll

[48:19] definitely make sure that goes off

[48:21] without a hitch regardless if it is in a

[48:24] building or outside of a building. Um

[48:25] we've had to do it and help Mark Dale

[48:27] for the last few years too unfortunately

[48:30] and um as far as that goes I think we're

[48:32] good to go.

[48:33] >> So they they agreed to the part that the

[48:35] arena could be separated from the other

[48:37] part.

[48:37] >> Absolutely they did. if that's um once

[48:40] you get your once we get all the reports

[48:41] back and and the pricing and the costing

[48:44] to repair that'll be the first thing we

[48:46] bring forward and they can definitely

[48:49] prioritize the arena section if uh

[48:52] council chooses to move ahead at that

[48:54] point in time with all of the

[48:55] recommendations.

[48:57] >> So that's what I'm saying is there could

[48:58] be a possibility we could have an upset

[49:00] limit that could cover that portion

[49:04] as we just did in the last resolution.

[49:06] There was an upset limit. Councelor

[49:07] Allen,

[49:08] >> are there washrooms in the arena part?

[49:12] >> No, there's washrooms in the center

[49:13] part. Did they speak to about that?

[49:16] Director Crow,

[49:17] >> for you, Mayor McQueen, to councelor

[49:20] Allen, that would be part of the um the

[49:22] arena portion. So, that portion would

[49:25] become a priority.

[49:27] >> And I I understand that even Wilton's

[49:30] have washrooms that could provide it if

[49:32] that was the case. I think there's

[49:34] something with the hydro panel as well.

[49:35] It's in the entrance. Yeah, it's it's yeah, it's a tough situation for

[49:40] council to be in in the circumstances

[49:42] where we are, but I think from as we all

[49:44] recall the delegation that we had at the

[49:47] last meeting is hockey is very important

[49:48] in that facility and there's 140 kids in

[49:50] that Saturday morning hockey as well

[49:52] along with all the other users as well.

[50:00] Ruby.

[50:04] » Thank you, Mayor McQueen. Um,

[50:07] timing is so unfortunate right now. Um,

[50:10] you know, and and you know, and and the

[50:12] lack of information, right? Um, so so

[50:14] that's that's that's the challenge. Um,

[50:16] you know, we we um, you know, there is the option of, you know, do you

[50:21] put an upside limit? Um, you know, is

[50:23] there a fair amount where council could

[50:26] be comfortable?

[50:28] um you know to you know to move to cover

[50:32] the remediation costs. So so that's sort

[50:34] of I think you know I think we should

[50:37] directly address that because I think

[50:39] that's a a valid question. Um, you know,

[50:42] >> just on that, just on that. So, madame

[50:44] clerk, if if if this body was to put an

[50:47] upset limit of whatever that figure was

[50:49] and the report comes forward and the

[50:52] report says we can we can bite-size it

[50:54] and we can do the arena first and do

[50:56] this. Can then council decide that from

[51:00] that upset limit, can council make that

[51:02] decision of up to that amount if it's

[51:05] already been approved by this body?

[51:09] >> Uh, thank you, Mayor McQueen. I actually

[51:11] got a legal opinion on this uh just this

[51:13] week because I had a feeling this

[51:15] question was going to come up. Um no,

[51:19] short answer is no. Council cannot do

[51:21] that. Council can set an upset limit,

[51:23] but then during the lame duck period, C

[51:26] council cannot make further decisions on

[51:28] how to spend that upset limit. Um that

[51:31] would then be under staff's uh

[51:35] >> I guess authority at that point or it

[51:37] could wait to the new term of council.

[51:39] But during the lame duck period,

[51:41] >> right, okay,

[51:42] >> that can't be done.

[51:43] >> So if there was an upset limit set, the

[51:45] delegated authority or staff could make

[51:47] that decision how they spent that money

[51:48] up to that level.

[51:51] I

[51:51] >> think that's important that this body

[51:52] knows that. Thank you for that.

[51:56] >> Yeah. And so thank you for that clarity.

[51:58] Um, you know, and you know, as councelor

[52:02] Ellen has pointed out, um,

[52:07] you know, there's there's two very

[52:08] important points of decision. So, one is

[52:12] the remediation, right? So, that's the

[52:15] short-term remediation to keep the doors

[52:17] open for, you know, for the make it

[52:19] healthy, you know. Yeah. To ensure it's

[52:20] healthy that people can go in uh for the

[52:24] short term. Then it's then the second

[52:26] big decision is the what's the long-term

[52:28] solution? So what does this facility

[52:30] look like going forward you know for the

[52:33] next 50 years? Um and there is an

[52:37] interdependency between the two. there

[52:40] can be right because if the remediation

[52:43] is a million dollars well then why would

[52:47] we sink you know then the question

[52:48] becomes why would we sink a million

[52:51] dollars into the remediation when hey

[52:54] you know what unfortunately maybe we

[52:55] have to just um not have a season and

[52:59] move all those you know move that big uh

[53:03] chunk of change you know um and direct

[53:06] it to the long-term next 50 years um you

[53:10] know a solution um so so it hinges on

[53:13] that um so so when we think about right

[53:17] so what I'm thinking about like you know

[53:19] what our next steps as council is I'm

[53:21] thinking about what information we have

[53:24] and when as well so when we think about

[53:27] September when we walk into you know so

[53:29] September 2nd we won't have a report

[53:31] because more information right because

[53:34] right maybe we'll have something maybe

[53:36] verbally but nothing written because we

[53:40] have to ensure we have a process that

[53:42] supports proper information that comes

[53:44] to the public and right so then that

[53:47] means um the next meeting which is

[53:49] midepptember so so we'll get the report

[53:52] official report say hopefully

[53:54] midepptember if everything goes to kitty

[53:57] boot um and then so at that point you

[54:01] know what other information would we

[54:02] have like you know would we you know

[54:04] because depending upon that report and

[54:07] the smaller price takes attached to that

[54:10] report for the first you know decision

[54:13] for remediation. Would we also have some

[54:16] additional information in terms of you

[54:18] know a long-term um solution where you

[54:21] know you know and that long-term

[54:24] solution you know um would be you know

[54:26] worst case scenario you tear everything

[54:28] down and rebuild and rebuild like for

[54:30] like. So maybe maybe if we can just get

[54:33] a little bit of context of what could we

[54:35] expect to help the decision-making

[54:37] process for midepptember.

[54:40] >> Dr. Crow,

[54:43] >> there we go. Um yes, you may to

[54:47] councelor Dubick. Honestly, uh and I'm

[54:50] going to be very honest and frank, that

[54:53] is the starting point. We really can't

[54:54] look at much anything else until that

[54:57] report comes back because we don't know

[54:59] if it's that severe or not severe. We

[55:03] don't know um once it comes back if if

[55:05] there's mold right into the which it was

[55:08] suggested during the original report

[55:10] that it's right into the you know the

[55:12] core of the building into the the beams

[55:14] and the studs. So we don't know what

[55:16] that until all that comes back. um we

[55:19] don't know what that originally is is

[55:21] going to cost at the direction of

[55:23] council. If council does choose, I can

[55:26] look into further um like forl like

[55:29] buildings um if you would like but again

[55:33] it's still going to be very different

[55:34] because of the age of the buildings. I

[55:37] could reach out to other municipalities

[55:39] their age of their building might be

[55:40] very different. We know our system here

[55:42] is freon system sort of type thing that

[55:45] others may not have. Um, so again, a

[55:49] starting point after this, if if council

[55:52] was going to look at a rebuild or

[55:54] pricing, you would want a good engineer,

[55:57] a structural engineer report um to

[56:01] provide that information. I know that's

[56:04] not what everyone wants to hear right

[56:06] now, but um you want to make sure if

[56:08] you're doing it, you're doing it right.

[56:10] So

[56:10] >> Chadzsworth Chadzsworth went through

[56:12] this and they had hoped to rebuild, but

[56:15] it's parking lot.

[56:17] They they made the decision up there and

[56:20] it's tore down and it's parking lot.

[56:25] >> Uh thank you, Mayor McQueen. I'm I'm

[56:28] I I'm speak uh through you as uh as a

[56:32] staff member heading hurling towards

[56:34] lame duck and uh

[56:39] nervously anticipating

[56:42] next steps. Um

[56:46] we we did have a report from a

[56:48] consultant that said we we had twice as

[56:51] many ice pads as as we should for 10,000

[56:56] residents. Since then, I think we've

[56:59] added four outdoor ice pads. Um maybe

[57:04] five.

[57:06] Um,

[57:07] my concern is from a lame lame duck and

[57:10] an upset limit standpoint, if if council

[57:13] passes an upset limit today,

[57:18] um, and staff makes the decision what to

[57:20] spend that on and then come September

[57:24] when the mechanic comes in and and

[57:26] attempts to start up the refrigeration

[57:29] system and that refrigeration system has

[57:32] issues or requires there's

[57:35] some kind of significant repair.

[57:39] That decision is now on staff to say

[57:44] what this money spent on. I'm not

[57:47] comfortable with that. I'm not

[57:49] comfortable with it for many reasons.

[57:51] One, it it's very emotional, very

[57:53] passionate uh situation

[57:57] and and two, for four years we've known

[58:01] this and no decision has been made. And

[58:04] now it seems unfair that these decisions

[58:06] are going to be put on staff.

[58:10] So I'm I'm speaking very

[58:13] candidly

[58:15] because I I think we need some decisions

[58:19] from council as to which direction they

[58:22] want to go in with the four arenas. And

[58:24] if that's yes, we want to keep the four

[58:26] arenas. We want to invest in them. at

[58:28] least and staff has an idea of which way

[58:31] this term of council is going, but we

[58:34] don't know what's on the other side and frankly

[58:39] I don't want to be the scapegoat for

[58:40] this personally as a staff member.

[58:44] I would suggest if there was an upset

[58:46] limit that it's somewhat clearly

[58:48] specified or just detailed to a certain

[58:51] point of where it be should be spent and

[58:54] I would say that would be to to um to

[58:58] get the arena back open

[59:02] because that's the part that I think

[59:04] it's critical I think from and again

[59:07] that that whole debate around four

[59:09] arenas and and that it came in through

[59:10] that report I think there was supposed

[59:12] to report come back with regards to that

[59:14] major report to come back with some

[59:16] ideas of what repurposing a arena two

[59:19] arenas were, but that report never did

[59:20] come back. There's a whole bunch of

[59:21] reports that were supposed to come back

[59:23] and they never came back.

[59:25] So, you know, I guess the question is

[59:27] about four arenas. Yes, it's a it's a

[59:29] bigger debate, [clears throat]

[59:31] but I think this body is has maintained

[59:33] to have four arenas. So, I think I want

[59:37] to zero back in right now is we have we

[59:39] have a facility that's been closed

[59:41] because of of health reasons and we're

[59:44] here today, a special meeting today to

[59:46] decide. We can't have the report before

[59:49] this before 2:00 tomorrow because that's

[59:51] not possible. It's a disappointment, but

[59:54] it's not possible. So, the only other

[59:56] option we can do here and it's been said

[59:59] that the arena can be sectioned off from

[1:00:02] the main part. And I think it said from

[1:00:04] the delegation here a couple weeks back

[1:00:05] that 90% of the revenue comes from that

[1:00:07] arena which is important.

[1:00:11] I'm getting no. Oh, I thought you were

[1:00:14] No. Anyway, that was what came back. So,

[1:00:17] I think the the business it's not going

[1:00:19] to be the same kind of business if

[1:00:20] that's the case. But I think that's the

[1:00:22] question I I think it should in front of

[1:00:24] council today. Is council prepared to

[1:00:26] put an upset limit? It's been mentioned

[1:00:28] that it could be dealt with separately

[1:00:29] than the than the main part of that uh

[1:00:32] community center. Is council

[1:00:35] in the M frame of mind to consider an

[1:00:38] upset limit to get that arena open

[1:00:39] today? And I guess that's a question I'm

[1:00:41] reaching out to this council.

[1:00:45] In my mind, it's'll be up to 500,000.

[1:00:48] But Madam CO,

[1:00:50] >> thank you, Mayor McQueen. We also need

[1:00:51] to know how that's going to be funded.

[1:00:54] >> Yeah. Well, okay. That that's that's a

[1:00:56] discussion here. Yes,

[1:00:58] we do have as that management reserve.

[1:01:01] Councelor Lohead, you got a question.

[1:01:04] >> Sir, who am I looking at?

[1:01:06] >> Yeah. Um,

[1:01:08] >> yeah, thank you, Mayor McQueen. And

[1:01:09] obviously there's um a lot to to

[1:01:12] consider here. Um, good points coming

[1:01:14] from all around the table. Um, you know,

[1:01:17] I understand our our CEO's feelings and

[1:01:19] position here. It's a very difficult

[1:01:21] position for our staff to be put in. Um

[1:01:25] that's a large delegation of of power.

[1:01:28] Um I think councelor Dubick um said it best that we I don't want to put

[1:01:33] words in her mouth here, but we don't

[1:01:35] want to endanger the long-term um

[1:01:39] forecast of of this facility uh for the

[1:01:42] short-term gain of of one ice season. Um

[1:01:46] and we have to keep in mind it's not

[1:01:47] just the long-term forecast of this

[1:01:48] facility. It's the long-term forecast of

[1:01:50] the, you know, um the fiscal reality of

[1:01:53] Grey Highlands

[1:01:54] on large. Um this is a a a very large

[1:01:58] and expensive piece of infrastructure um

[1:02:01] in a big municipality that has many of

[1:02:03] those all aging. Um so, um we're all in

[1:02:08] agreement, I believe, that we would love

[1:02:09] to see this arena stay open and I think

[1:02:12] we can all agree that we'd love to be

[1:02:13] for it to be open this season. Um but um

[1:02:16] if that if being open this season comes

[1:02:19] at the expense of the future of the

[1:02:21] facility um it's it just isn't a a price

[1:02:25] worth paying. So um to your point Mayor

[1:02:27] McQueen of of an upset limit I mean I

[1:02:30] think it's not a bad idea but we have to

[1:02:32] be realistic about how big that number

[1:02:33] can be.

[1:02:37] for that.

[1:02:39] I think again the upset limit

[1:02:42] is again it was identified in the arena

[1:02:46] portion in 2012 that had mold in they

[1:02:49] went in and they took a pressure washer

[1:02:51] and they cleaned it up and it wasn't

[1:02:52] half a million dollars to do that. So,

[1:02:55] and using a half a million in the sense

[1:02:56] at the top part of I I would hope really

[1:02:59] it's a lot less than that to get it

[1:03:01] open. And that depends on as council

[1:03:03] Allen said with regards to washrooms and

[1:03:05] uh in the facility, but it is a bricks

[1:03:08] and mortar part of the arena itself.

[1:03:10] It's not the It's not the same as the

[1:03:12] other part where as I think Director

[1:03:15] Crow said with 2x4s and and insulation

[1:03:19] and drywall, it's a different part of

[1:03:20] the building that probably has more more

[1:03:23] and that's where I think I think that's

[1:03:24] where part of most of the part of it was

[1:03:26] found. But again, again, it's up to that won't come back till September to

[1:03:32] see what that's going to be. I guess the

[1:03:34] question to you Seanette is if there was

[1:03:36] funds set aside then and and if I I

[1:03:40] would take it that uh Belelffort will

[1:03:42] come back and they'll have it broken

[1:03:44] down to what needs what

[1:03:46] and you did indicate that they are

[1:03:48] prepared or could look at isolating it.

[1:03:51] So I think those are the points that we

[1:03:52] have to think about is that comes back

[1:03:55] and maybe it's $100,000 to get the arena

[1:03:58] back open. I know there's the issue with

[1:03:59] the ice surface. We have been told that

[1:04:01] our person who does certify that will

[1:04:05] certify it for one more year. We've had

[1:04:06] the delegation and we've had the

[1:04:08] conversation about replacing that. We

[1:04:10] know we have to look at that because of

[1:04:11] the system, but is there I guess the

[1:04:14] other question I think council has to

[1:04:15] look at is there good bricks and mortar

[1:04:17] in that arena. It's not all four arenas

[1:04:20] I think are different sizes. I think

[1:04:22] that was in that one report. Councelor

[1:04:24] Wicens.

[1:04:28] » Thank you, Mayor McQueen.

[1:04:30] >> [clears throat]

[1:04:32] » So, we talk about that consultant

[1:04:35] report.

[1:04:37] I think I've said it before, but we did

[1:04:38] the math.

[1:04:40] Um, I think it was last year. Um, if the

[1:04:45] usage was the same and we went down to

[1:04:47] two ice surfaces, we'd be running 24/7

[1:04:50] on two ice services.

[1:04:53] >> Yes.

[1:04:55] >> Well, we did it then. I asked for it.

[1:04:59] Anyways, uh

[1:05:02] so we've got uh our Markale Arena is

[1:05:05] coming back online hopefully and we have

[1:05:08] a contract and I believe it's going to

[1:05:10] take 75% of the ice time in Markdown.

[1:05:16] So that's going to be busy.

[1:05:19] Um and our last committee, the whole we

[1:05:22] voted unanimously. Uh, I mean it it

[1:05:25] wasn't a council decision, but everybody

[1:05:27] said yes, let's put the $150,000

[1:05:32] into looking and see. So, we already

[1:05:34] started down the rabbit hole in my

[1:05:36] opinion.

[1:05:38] Um,

[1:05:42] the uh

[1:05:44] the thinking,

[1:05:47] you know, like say Southgate's only got

[1:05:48] one arena. Well, that's that's true, but

[1:05:51] they al also have uh Flesherton and they

[1:05:54] have Shelurn and they have Mount Forest

[1:05:56] and they have Eaton and they have Durham

[1:05:59] all within less than 10 minutes if

[1:06:02] you're living on the outskirts of

[1:06:03] Southgate, you know. So, we're in a kind

[1:06:06] of a a different situation. But

[1:06:11] um

[1:06:15] Rocklin,

[1:06:17] they're a rural community. Um

[1:06:22] that's their meeting that's their

[1:06:23] meeting place

[1:06:26] and uh

[1:06:29] it shouldn't have be

[1:06:31] um I don't think they should lose their

[1:06:33] arena.

[1:06:35] I mean, they've got a big pledge.

[1:06:40] This This isn't easy. Like, it's not

[1:06:43] easy for me to say this, but um I think

[1:06:46] they should keep it.

[1:06:49] And uh they've got almost a quarter of a

[1:06:51] million dollars.

[1:06:53] They say that's ready to go.

[1:06:56] I think uh I'm going to make a motion we

[1:06:58] put an upset limit of a quarter of a

[1:07:00] million dollars.

[1:07:03] And when we get all the facts and

[1:07:06] everything like that, we know it's going

[1:07:08] to cost us to get it up and running. We

[1:07:10] can decide then whether we spend it or

[1:07:12] not or staff can decide to spend it or

[1:07:15] not.

[1:07:16] However you want to put it

[1:07:19] and I'm going to put that motion on the

[1:07:21] floor, right?

[1:07:22] >> Oh, hang on. I'm going to get clarity

[1:07:23] here just to get it done the right way.

[1:07:24] Madam clerk,

[1:07:27] >> [clears throat]

[1:07:27] >> uh, thank you, Mayor McQueen. Um, I

[1:07:29] would say that we need more than just a

[1:07:32] dollar value. I would say we need

[1:07:33] direction on what that entails and where

[1:07:36] that dollar amount is coming from.

[1:07:40] >> All right. Uh from the uh

[1:07:44] from the standpoint of uh of uh what

[1:07:47] we're going to do with the money to get

[1:07:49] the arena up and running

[1:07:52] and from uh

[1:07:55] from our monies that uh I'm not exactly

[1:07:59] sure Anna can help me out with this. We

[1:08:02] have $2 million in the account right

[1:08:04] now. Asset management.

[1:08:11] » Just for clarity. So4 million is to get

[1:08:14] the arena back up and running to come

[1:08:17] out of asset management reserve. Is that

[1:08:18] what you're saying?

[1:08:19] >> Yep.

[1:08:20] >> Madam clerk.

[1:08:22] >> Thank you, Mayor McQueen. Just to make

[1:08:23] sure I have it right. You're talking the

[1:08:25] arena portion only and not the hall or

[1:08:27] you're talking Yes.

[1:08:28] >> Okay. I just

[1:08:30] um do you mind if I read out what I kind

[1:08:32] of have drafted so that before it's

[1:08:34] seconded so everybody knows?

[1:08:36] >> Absolutely.

[1:08:37] >> Thank you. Um so that the main motion be

[1:08:39] amended to add and that council direct

[1:08:41] staff to prioritize the reopening of the

[1:08:43] Euphrasia Memorial Rockland Community

[1:08:45] Center Arena portion for this upcoming

[1:08:47] ice season and that council authorize an

[1:08:49] upset limit of $250,000 excluding HST to

[1:08:53] be funded from the asset management

[1:08:54] reserve.

[1:08:56] >> Is that correct? That's good. Okay. Do I

[1:08:58] have a seconder?

[1:09:02] Second. Councelor Duby.

[1:09:05] I think councelor Allen. Okay. From the

[1:09:08] mover and the second. Do you have

[1:09:08] anything to from the mover and the

[1:09:10] second do you have anything to add to

[1:09:12] the motions on the floor? And I know

[1:09:13] councelor Dubick, you did second. So I

[1:09:15] we'll go to you before I go to councelor

[1:09:16] Allen.

[1:09:18] >> Um so so thank you. So so I do want to

[1:09:20] get this on the floor and I just do want

[1:09:22] to um clerk Vanelstein, can you just

[1:09:24] read that one more time?

[1:09:31] Um through you, Mayor McQueen, that the

[1:09:33] main motion be amended to add and that

[1:09:35] council direct staff to prioritize the

[1:09:38] reopening of the Euphr Frraasier

[1:09:39] Memorial Rockland Community Center Arena

[1:09:41] portion for this upcoming ice season and

[1:09:44] that council authorize an upset limit of

[1:09:46] $250,000 excluding HST HST to be funded

[1:09:51] from the asset management reserve.

[1:09:54] >> Go ahead.

[1:09:56] Uh so so just to provide some clarity um

[1:10:00] you know I would also think that if the

[1:10:02] 250 upside limit was used um it's not

[1:10:06] used just to get it partially there like

[1:10:09] it like it would it would need to be

[1:10:11] like if 250 would cover opening the the

[1:10:16] arena

[1:10:18] right so I just wanted to make sure that

[1:10:20] that's that's the meaning of it like we

[1:10:22] wouldn't use a part we wouldn't use the

[1:10:25] 250 but still keep it closed because you

[1:10:27] know we still had another step to go

[1:10:29] type of thing right so so 250 would have

[1:10:32] to cover the opening

[1:10:34] >> and I would think if there's maintenance

[1:10:36] on something maintenance would be

[1:10:37] different than getting something open

[1:10:39] because of the the situation like if if

[1:10:41] it was in our budget from some other

[1:10:43] point right

[1:10:47] » go ahead

[1:10:48] >> right and then the the flip side to that

[1:10:50] then is you know if if it would cost

[1:10:51] more than 250 then we wouldn't we

[1:10:54] wouldn't

[1:10:55] move ahead and then it would be closed

[1:10:57] for the season.

[1:11:00] >> Okay. I'm looking at councilor Wiccans

[1:11:02] what you're like it just needs to be

[1:11:04] clear because staff need to have that

[1:11:05] clarity too, right?

[1:11:09] I'm happy with that.

[1:11:12] And maybe the Rockland folks would if I

[1:11:15] was over that the Rocklin folks put

[1:11:16] their money where their mouth is.

[1:11:18] >> So that was the question I had in the

[1:11:19] back of my mind. If it costs more than

[1:11:21] 250, can donations from the community

[1:11:26] put that over to get it open? Is that a

[1:11:27] pro? Is that is that is that available?

[1:11:29] Because I know we have donations in

[1:11:31] other Kimberly in the Kimberly Forest.

[1:11:34] We have Kimberly Hall has donations that

[1:11:36] does hang on just saying I'll get to

[1:11:38] you. Does donations because you asked

[1:11:40] the question. Does donations

[1:11:42] can help if it was cost 300,000?

[1:11:47] because I think that's an important part

[1:11:48] that needs to be cleared. Madam seal,

[1:11:51] >> thank thank you um member Queen to you.

[1:11:55] Th this is very muddy. [laughter]

[1:11:58] We're now talking about approving

[1:12:00] $250,000

[1:12:02] and staff has the delegated authority to

[1:12:05] spend that. But now you're talking about

[1:12:07] if it costs more and the community comes

[1:12:09] forward, then

[1:12:12] we we can

[1:12:15] ask some clarity. Is that a possibility?

[1:12:16] Can that work? Can that happen?

[1:12:18] >> No, that doesn't work. We need clear

[1:12:20] direction. We can't we can't move into

[1:12:24] lame duck on um maybe the community is

[1:12:29] going to pay for the different like

[1:12:32] no we we would put that in the motion

[1:12:34] that if that was the case I think that's

[1:12:35] the question was being asked is if

[1:12:37] that's the case

[1:12:39] is it a possibility if it's in the

[1:12:41] motion that if it was a little bit more

[1:12:44] can the volunteer money or can the

[1:12:46] community put it over that top

[1:12:49] >> no it needs to sorry mine needs to be

[1:12:52] clear. That's what I'm saying.

[1:12:53] >> It needs to be not if or

[1:12:55] >> okay

[1:12:56] >> a little bit. It's got to be this must

[1:13:00] happen. If this happens, this happens

[1:13:02] then this happens. It has to be clear

[1:13:04] direction for staff.

[1:13:05] >> Okay. We'll come back to councelor

[1:13:06] Allen. Sorry, I apologize. you were

[1:13:08] given.

[1:13:09] >> So, is this money to go towards

[1:13:12] remediation and reconstruction

[1:13:17] only or if the plant is ready to fire up

[1:13:21] and it doesn't fire? Does the money go

[1:13:24] towards that?

[1:13:26] >> Well, that's why I said there's there's budget money would normally make

[1:13:29] maintenance money or whatever that would

[1:13:30] be.

[1:13:30] >> I don't think a new ice plant is

[1:13:32] maintenance.

[1:13:32] >> Oh, no, no, no. But I think I think if

[1:13:34] that's if it doesn't if that fails, that

[1:13:37] doesn't matter if the arena's is the way

[1:13:39] it is. If that fails, that would happen

[1:13:41] anyway, even if this didn't come.

[1:13:43] >> I'm I'm going to say this and I'm going

[1:13:45] to say it right to the Rockton people

[1:13:48] that

[1:13:50] I'd love you to have the arena for this

[1:13:53] ice season.

[1:13:54] >> I I I sort of think you got to go

[1:13:56] through me. I

[1:13:57] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[1:13:57] >> But I'm just facing this way.

[1:14:01] But

[1:14:03] we're expected to make a decision with

[1:14:08] next to no information.

[1:14:10] We're elected to be fiscally responsible

[1:14:14] and this is not

[1:14:17] just throwing a number out there and

[1:14:20] saying fix it if it needs it. And

[1:14:25] I don't know. I I'm sorry. I'm sorry,

[1:14:28] but I cannot support

[1:14:33] just throwing a number out and I I need

[1:14:36] information.

[1:14:38] Deputy Mayor,

[1:14:42] » thank you very much, Mayor McQueen.

[1:14:45] There are a few other circumstances

[1:14:48] involved in this. It is it's not just a

[1:14:50] remediation. We already know that in

[1:14:51] order to be allowed to open up the ice

[1:14:53] plant, we have to replace the

[1:14:55] ventilation system. That wasn't part of

[1:14:57] the budget. was about a $50,000 cost.

[1:14:59] So, if we're saying 250 to get it open,

[1:15:02] we're down to 200 for remediation.

[1:15:04] We know that there's um issues and

[1:15:08] concerns with the full building. My

[1:15:10] frustration, my concern is to councelor

[1:15:14] Wickens, you said we're starting down

[1:15:16] the rabbit hole. So, we spent 150 to get

[1:15:18] a report. We're going to blindly spend

[1:15:20] or or potentially spend 250 to get a

[1:15:23] small portion of the building open and

[1:15:25] ignore the rest.

[1:15:28] sinking another 250,000.

[1:15:30] Does that mean the answer is we spend

[1:15:32] the extra 2 million to make sure it's

[1:15:34] done? We know the ice surface itself has

[1:15:38] one season left of of guaranteed.

[1:15:41] We'll get it certified provided it it

[1:15:43] turns on. And Mayor McQueen, you're

[1:15:44] right. There is maintenance money in and

[1:15:45] we've been limping that machinery along

[1:15:47] for a long time and it is time to make

[1:15:49] the decision on machinery.

[1:15:52] I truly believe that

[1:15:56] it is it is not fiscally responsible to

[1:15:59] just put the 250.

[1:16:01] We need to get information on the full

[1:16:04] cost of remediation because you get to a

[1:16:07] point of how much money gets burnt as

[1:16:09] some cost to then make a different

[1:16:11] decision or how much money gets burned

[1:16:13] as some cost that then

[1:16:16] drags more money into it because well

[1:16:18] we've already sunk this much.

[1:16:22] I do believe that this body should get a

[1:16:25] realistic cost on a like forlike

[1:16:27] replacement.

[1:16:29] That is for two reasons. One, I don't

[1:16:33] disagree that the hall and arena there

[1:16:36] in Rockland, given the geography of Grey

[1:16:38] Highlands, makes sense to have a

[1:16:40] community space there.

[1:16:42] What I believe is we're about to

[1:16:44] potentially spend,

[1:16:47] you know, you do the 250, then are we

[1:16:48] keeping the hall? Are we going to tear

[1:16:50] off the hall? The hall portion has the

[1:16:52] bathrooms and the kitchen. The kitchen

[1:16:53] just got put in. What are we doing with

[1:16:55] the rest of the building? You're you're

[1:16:56] spending 250,000 to get one season out

[1:17:00] of a space. I'm not done finish talking.

[1:17:02] >> The report, just for clarity, the

[1:17:03] report, we don't know. You're you're

[1:17:04] speculating. You don't know.

[1:17:05] >> And on the rest of the building,

[1:17:07] >> I'm speculating. You're speculating

[1:17:08] $250,000 to get a portion of this

[1:17:11] building open for one year rather than

[1:17:14] being logical and saying, "What is the

[1:17:16] full cost of the whole building? What is

[1:17:19] it cost to replace like for like? And

[1:17:21] I'm not saying building a brand new

[1:17:22] shiny, you know, state-of-the-art

[1:17:24] facility. I'm saying like for like we

[1:17:28] have a building that the BCA report is

[1:17:29] out there. It shows what this fully

[1:17:32] space needs and requires over the next

[1:17:34] few years. The 250,000 followed by

[1:17:38] whatever else it's going to cost to

[1:17:39] remediate the building is there's no

[1:17:42] getting a grant for it. There's no

[1:17:44] getting a loan for it. Nobody's gonna We

[1:17:45] can't go to the bank and borrow money to

[1:17:47] clean. That is what we're trying to do.

[1:17:51] We will take that right out of a

[1:17:52] reserve. The asset management reserve

[1:17:54] sits just over $2 million of unallocated

[1:17:57] money. It has taken us eight years to

[1:17:59] get there. Eight years I've been on

[1:18:01] council. We started with very very

[1:18:03] little in the estimation reserve. We did

[1:18:05] a big splash after the tilesman sale to

[1:18:07] put it and to fill it up. But we have

[1:18:09] been working to try to build that

[1:18:10] reserve for a long time. 250 is a drop

[1:18:13] in the bucket, I think, to what the

[1:18:14] whole building will need to get back to

[1:18:16] where we were October of 2024 when we

[1:18:19] were able to turn it on, get going, and

[1:18:21] everything was going.

[1:18:24] It is not respectful to all the

[1:18:27] taxpayers and even to the Rockland

[1:18:29] taxpayers to to blindly sink money into

[1:18:31] something without getting a wholesome

[1:18:32] picture. Um, I can't I can't support the

[1:18:37] 250

[1:18:38] for that reason. I think we get the

[1:18:41] report in September. We get from there

[1:18:44] we get more information in terms of what

[1:18:47] is the realistic cost. We know an

[1:18:49] approximate idea of what it will cost to

[1:18:51] replace the ice equipment judging from

[1:18:54] the two options that were presented. The

[1:18:55] committee of the whole have great

[1:18:57] information on what that could

[1:18:58] potentially cost. We can get wholesome

[1:19:01] information on the remediation

[1:19:03] replacement of the Rocklin if the pad

[1:19:06] needs to be replaced or not. Then we get

[1:19:08] a replacement of a like forl like

[1:19:10] reconstruction cost and we can compare

[1:19:13] those two because a reconstruction of

[1:19:16] building a brand sorry not a reconstru

[1:19:18] building a brand new arena can be

[1:19:19] debentured. we can debenture almost the

[1:19:22] entire amount. Obviously, put in some of

[1:19:24] our own money, look for grants, look for

[1:19:26] operations to be creative about what

[1:19:29] that space will be, green capacity wise,

[1:19:32] community space-wise. There's so many

[1:19:34] more options there. And then debenture

[1:19:37] is a more practical 25-year investment

[1:19:39] into the long term of the of the

[1:19:41] community and the facility.

[1:19:43] $250,000 possibly cuz you know if it

[1:19:46] doesn't meet that we need more and it

[1:19:49] doesn't go ahead for one year doesn't

[1:19:52] seem logical.

[1:19:54] The last point I'll make is I understand

[1:19:56] the point the community has made that

[1:19:58] 90% of the income from that space comes

[1:20:01] from that arena and that is absolutely

[1:20:03] true but 90% of the cost to operate that

[1:20:06] arena comes from that ice too and we all

[1:20:09] know that the ice surfaces aren't making

[1:20:11] money and they shouldn't but let's be

[1:20:14] practical when we say that yes the

[1:20:16] income comes from the ice surface and

[1:20:18] there's more income coming in from you

[1:20:20] know we get a lot more income and

[1:20:22] revenues from Rockland Arena Flesherton

[1:20:24] arena, Markdale Arena than we do from

[1:20:26] like Maxwell Hall and Starford Hall, but

[1:20:28] that ice is the big cost to operate to.

[1:20:31] It's the hydro bill, it's the staffing

[1:20:33] cost, it's the equipment, it's the

[1:20:35] maintenance, it's a lot of other things.

[1:20:38] The last point I'll make on this is to

[1:20:40] councelor Wiccans. The 75% ice usage is

[1:20:43] correct, but we don't operate our ice

[1:20:45] surfaces

[1:20:47] to a full capacity. We start ice time at

[1:20:50] 8 in the morning, not 6. We don't we end

[1:20:53] the ice time early because our residents

[1:20:56] are used to having a certain level of

[1:20:58] capacity and availability. We can make

[1:21:00] that change and make sure that the

[1:21:02] arenas are open earlier in the day and

[1:21:04] open to later so that the people can

[1:21:06] still use it. We went through a season

[1:21:09] with three ice services. We may need to

[1:21:11] do another season with three eye

[1:21:12] services to allow us the time to make

[1:21:14] the proper decision and not make an

[1:21:16] emotional one but make a realistic

[1:21:18] responsible decision. and and I'm now

[1:21:22] >> okay. Thank you.

[1:21:25] We have invested in our other

[1:21:26] facilities. In 2010, we there was a

[1:21:29] million dollars spent on the Markdale

[1:21:31] arena in 2010. We're spending money

[1:21:35] right now on the Fletcher Arena.

[1:21:38] We have uh Fibers Sham Arena is a new

[1:21:41] arena. It was built in ' 84, but it came

[1:21:44] because the current arena was condemned

[1:21:46] and the community rallied and they built

[1:21:47] a new arena 1984.

[1:21:50] So those arenas are sort of established

[1:21:51] and the history of Rockland is

[1:21:53] established from the community itself as

[1:21:55] well.

[1:21:57] Um yes, it's a big it's a big decision

[1:22:00] and it I would say hopefully it doesn't

[1:22:02] take $250,000 to get it back open

[1:22:04] because remember this is concrete

[1:22:07] blocks, steel. It's not like drywall and

[1:22:10] wood and like like the community center

[1:22:12] itself. This is the arena. I would say

[1:22:14] probably by mid December, January, the

[1:22:16] mold will be all gone because it'll be

[1:22:17] so damn cold. There'll be no mold left.

[1:22:20] Anyway, it's it's at that point.

[1:22:23] Somebody pointed out to me just last

[1:22:26] week, and I know this is a community

[1:22:28] decision. This is why we're here today,

[1:22:30] and it's a tough one.

[1:22:31] >> Point of order, Mayor McQueen.

[1:22:32] Respectfully, if you're going to be very

[1:22:33] much into your opinion, can you remove

[1:22:35] yourself from this?

[1:22:36] >> This This is what I said, a community

[1:22:37] member said to me the other the other

[1:22:39] day. This is not my opinion. Sure. This

[1:22:42] is what an opinion that somebody else

[1:22:43] said. And my job is also to make sure

[1:22:46] council has all the information.

[1:22:49] So, as we know, this is a community

[1:22:51] decision. Person that pointed this out

[1:22:54] to me, he said, "You know, it's

[1:22:55] interesting. If you live in an urban

[1:22:57] setting like Markdale,

[1:23:00] you have police station down the road,

[1:23:01] you have hospital down the road, you

[1:23:02] have a fire department just down the

[1:23:03] road, you have street lights, you have

[1:23:04] stores, you live out in rural gray

[1:23:06] highlands, what do you have?" This is

[1:23:08] I'm I'm quoting what somebody else said

[1:23:10] to me. You have they have the community

[1:23:12] center. And I think that's where we are

[1:23:13] today is what what does that community

[1:23:16] have in that in that facility of the of

[1:23:18] the proximity to where those people

[1:23:20] live. And I think this is why probably

[1:23:24] in our Curry Highlands whether we have

[1:23:26] four arenas as councelor Wick said that

[1:23:28] in Southgate they have one arena but

[1:23:30] there's arenas all around and community

[1:23:32] centers all around. So I think you know

[1:23:34] there is a reason why we we are where we

[1:23:36] are today. It's because of the community

[1:23:38] is is is the interest of putting in the

[1:23:40] deputy mayor.

[1:23:43] >> I don't think there's anybody here who

[1:23:45] has said shouldn't have an arena. You

[1:23:48] just said in 1984

[1:23:50] condemned a building and built a new

[1:23:52] one.

[1:23:52] >> 1979 it was condemned.

[1:23:54] >> Sorry.

[1:23:54] >> Yeah.

[1:23:54] >> And it took him 5 years to build. What

[1:23:56] we what I am saying is that that path

[1:23:58] makes more sense than some cost into a

[1:24:01] building that's falling apart with the

[1:24:02] BCA report. Let's get the information on

[1:24:05] building a new arena that will last us

[1:24:07] into the next half century rather than

[1:24:10] sinking $250,000 to get us one year. And

[1:24:13] then from there there's there now you

[1:24:15] have the sunk cost or the question mark

[1:24:18] or the conversation.

[1:24:21] Staff are asking for clear direction on

[1:24:23] four arenas like let's get the logic and

[1:24:25] let's do this stuff. This should this

[1:24:27] conversation should have happened two

[1:24:29] and a half years ago but it hasn't. We

[1:24:31] are here today. You you just said

[1:24:34] feverish went through this premise, you

[1:24:36] know, they they rallied. I bet the

[1:24:39] community of Rockland the 250 26,000

[1:24:42] have been fundraised is a drop in the

[1:24:44] bucket if we can rally to get a brand

[1:24:46] new arena put there. So that is we need

[1:24:49] that information before making a sunk

[1:24:51] cost decision. Mr. Mayor, I'll point

[1:24:53] something out. The information we need

[1:24:55] is from Belelfford.

[1:24:58] That's the information we needed for

[1:24:59] today.

[1:25:01] So, we're not guessing, but it's not

[1:25:03] available.

[1:25:05] So, the only other solution could be is

[1:25:07] the what if. And I think that's what's

[1:25:09] on the floor right now. And I'm not

[1:25:10] going to get into this debate with you

[1:25:11] anymore because right now there's a

[1:25:13] motion on the floor about do we set

[1:25:16] aside an upset limit of 250,000. It was

[1:25:20] asked if the community was if the

[1:25:22] community addit more. We need clarity on

[1:25:25] that.

[1:25:27] But right now, right now, the motion is

[1:25:30] on the floor. moved in a second that we

[1:25:32] have an upset limit to get the arena

[1:25:35] back in back open again.

[1:25:38] >> Question.

[1:25:39] >> Is there any more discussion or any more

[1:25:41] new information?

[1:25:43] Well, to call the question then you need a vote on that right madam cler

[1:25:48] not here. I thought we needed if you

[1:25:50] called the question I thought you have

[1:25:51] had to have twothirds majority to call

[1:25:52] the question if somebody's calling a

[1:25:54] question.

[1:25:56] Pretty sure on that one. Well, that's

[1:25:58] getting clarity. I'll go to councelor.

[1:26:02] Uh, thank you, Mayor McQueen. Um,

[1:26:06] I forgot what I was going to say.

[1:26:09] Um,

[1:26:10] >> was it about the community money or was

[1:26:12] >> Oh, yes. Okay. Yeah. So, so thank you

[1:26:14] because because I think the, you know,

[1:26:16] um,

[1:26:18] so, so I think there's kind of like two

[1:26:20] points to this, right? like, you know,

[1:26:21] is there a minor amount of investment

[1:26:26] that would be

[1:26:28] um that council could have an appetite

[1:26:30] to provide with some very loose

[1:26:33] guidance, you know, to um to to staff,

[1:26:38] right? And then when you start to start

[1:26:40] to add more, well, it's, you know, then

[1:26:42] that number starts to shift, right? And

[1:26:44] so, you know, I become very

[1:26:46] uncomfortable, right, when when it start

[1:26:47] to shift. So, so um so just kind of

[1:26:50] providing some I guess just from my

[1:26:52] perspective to me the question is you

[1:26:54] know is there um you know one you know

[1:26:59] is there a sunk cost that council is

[1:27:01] comfortable with

[1:27:04] you know if it would cover you know the

[1:27:06] reopening of the arena with very loose

[1:27:10] direction to staff and so so to me

[1:27:14] that's the question I'll just leave it

[1:27:16] at

[1:27:16] >> so Madam clerk, can you repeat the

[1:27:19] motion again just for because there was

[1:27:22] something mentioned about the the fan

[1:27:24] and that to me that council can still

[1:27:26] make that decision because it's under

[1:27:27] $50,000,

[1:27:29] but that hasn't made that decision

[1:27:31] because that was originally came back

[1:27:32] because the air quality in the arena

[1:27:34] needs to be improved. There needs to be

[1:27:35] fans and all that stuff. I think council

[1:27:37] can still deal with that when that

[1:27:39] report comes back. As I understand the

[1:27:41] motion by councelor Wicens and second by

[1:27:43] yourself, councelor Duby, this is money

[1:27:46] if needed to rehabilitate or whatever it

[1:27:49] needs to do to get the building open

[1:27:50] because of the mold issue

[1:27:53] and we got I'm going to bring it back.

[1:27:55] It's about the mold issue. It's not

[1:27:57] about arenas. It's not and we all got

[1:27:59] drifted away and and I'm bringing it

[1:28:01] back right now. It's about the mold

[1:28:02] issue that we've discovered and why the

[1:28:04] building is closed. That's why we're

[1:28:06] here today. Councelor Wickkins and

[1:28:08] yourself has moved a motion an upset

[1:28:10] limit of 250,000 if needed to be used

[1:28:15] basically to make the arena usable for

[1:28:17] this season. Is that sort of clear to

[1:28:20] everybody? Is that clear enough from

[1:28:21] staff?

[1:28:23] Because if it's not, we need that motion

[1:28:25] more as you can say. Councelor do make

[1:28:27] clear.

[1:28:29] >> Can I just get the motion read out and

[1:28:30] I'll then I'll go to you councelor.

[1:28:32] Madam cler

[1:28:34] >> um thank you through you mayor McQueen.

[1:28:35] I wanted to comment on the calling of

[1:28:37] the question. You can put a motion to

[1:28:39] call the question on the floor but not

[1:28:41] when there's an amendment on the floor.

[1:28:42] Only when the main motion is back on the

[1:28:43] floor um just for clarity and it doesn't

[1:28:46] require two/3s. It just requires a

[1:28:48] second regular

[1:28:50] >> requires that or used or used to require

[1:28:52] 23. That's changed.

[1:28:53] >> So I did look that up just for clarity

[1:28:55] for everybody. Um,

[1:28:56] >> right now the amendment is

[1:28:58] >> the amendment is that the main motion be

[1:28:59] amended to add and that council direct

[1:29:01] staff to prioritize the reopening of the

[1:29:03] Euphrasia Memorial Rockland Community

[1:29:05] Center Arena portion for this upcoming a

[1:29:07] season and that council authorize an

[1:29:09] upset limit of $250,000 excluding HST to

[1:29:13] be funded from the asset management

[1:29:14] reserve.

[1:29:17] Okay. Um,

[1:29:18] >> is everybody clear?

[1:29:20] >> Do you need the clarity that it's for

[1:29:22] mold rem? Yes.

[1:29:24] I was going to say that based on the

[1:29:27] discussion that's happened maybe that

[1:29:28] should something that should be added

[1:29:30] but that would be up to the mover and

[1:29:31] seconder that that's what they want in

[1:29:32] it for mold remediation.

[1:29:35] >> That's that's fine with me.

[1:29:36] >> Yep.

[1:29:38] I'm not a very good mover

[1:29:41] >> and and and councelor D. Okay that's so

[1:29:44] just add that little so it's clear and I

[1:29:46] understand that we need to be clear

[1:29:48] councelor. [clears throat]

[1:29:49] >> Thank you. On the subject of clarity

[1:29:51] through you, Mayor McQueen, I mean,

[1:29:53] councelor Dubick mentioned that the 250

[1:29:55] goes ahead only if the ice surface is

[1:29:57] able to be reopened. So, it's more than

[1:29:59] just mold. It's it's can we operate the

[1:30:03] arena? It would need to be, you know, we

[1:30:06] would need to segregate that area,

[1:30:08] including the entrance and washrooms,

[1:30:10] get the ice surface going. Hopefully,

[1:30:11] the plant runs. There is a $50,000 um

[1:30:15] public health ventilation compliance

[1:30:17] issue that would have to be dealt with.

[1:30:19] It's

[1:30:20] >> um and that can be dealt with council.

[1:30:23] >> It could be, but I mean are we talking

[1:30:25] 250 plus to 50,000 or I mean I clearly

[1:30:29] understood what councelor Dubic said

[1:30:31] that $250,000

[1:30:35] gets the ice surface open for a season.

[1:30:37] It buys us one season because we've

[1:30:39] still we're still going to have a bigger

[1:30:40] issue to deal with once the bell for

[1:30:43] report comes back. There is a report

[1:30:45] attached to to today's agenda, you know,

[1:30:47] that was discussed at the um committee

[1:30:49] the whole that had some estimates on

[1:30:51] there that the the BCA 5year, you know,

[1:30:54] was a million a half dollars. The ice

[1:30:56] floor replacement was $900,000.

[1:30:58] >> I want to wind that back in because

[1:31:00] right now the the motion on the floor is

[1:31:02] about getting the arena back open

[1:31:04] because of the mold situation, the

[1:31:06] health and safety situation, right? So,

[1:31:11] and if if there wasn't a mold situation

[1:31:13] and the arena didn't open up or there

[1:31:15] was more than a $50,000 expense, this

[1:31:18] body can't deal with it.

[1:31:22] This is to deal with an issue that has

[1:31:24] arised and we got and we're getting a

[1:31:26] report back from Belelfford with regards

[1:31:28] to what's wrong, but we can't deal with

[1:31:30] that report because it's not here. So,

[1:31:32] this is what the money would be set

[1:31:34] aside for. And it comes back and it says

[1:31:37] you got to spend $10,000 doing this. You

[1:31:39] got to do 5,000 doing this to get the

[1:31:41] arena open. Did you finish? I cut you

[1:31:45] off.

[1:31:49] Getting the arena open is the go no-go

[1:31:52] for the $250,000 is just what I want to

[1:31:54] be clear on. that is the case. I could

[1:31:58] probably support this position, but I I

[1:32:01] can't support

[1:32:03] it not being that clear.

[1:32:06] >> Come back. Yeah, deputy mayor.

[1:32:10] >> Much mayor McQueen for clarity. The the

[1:32:12] motion is now saying for mold

[1:32:13] remediation. Again, let's go back to the

[1:32:16] 50,000 for the ventilation. That was an

[1:32:19] estimated cost, I think. I don't know. I

[1:32:21] can't remember. Forgive me if the report

[1:32:23] said it was exactly going to be $50,000.

[1:32:25] If it's $54,000, it's over the budget of

[1:32:28] Flame Duck. If the ice surface ice

[1:32:30] equipment doesn't open up and it

[1:32:32] requires new parts, what's the limit

[1:32:35] there? Like, this is kind of the problem

[1:32:36] to your 50,000 $250,000 to get the arena

[1:32:40] open. There are a lot of other unknowns.

[1:32:42] And this is why it is not as simple as

[1:32:44] saying the the motion is 250,000 to get

[1:32:47] the arena open. Does the arena include

[1:32:49] the bathrooms or not? Is that a

[1:32:50] disqualifier? Does the arena include the

[1:32:52] upstairs fing section? Is that a

[1:32:54] disqualifier? Does the arena include

[1:32:57] coordinating off and blocking off the

[1:32:58] kitchen so that it's not a part of it?

[1:33:00] Does it like there's those are questions

[1:33:02] to say is it specifically from the glass

[1:33:05] wall to the door um big Zamboni doors

[1:33:09] and and doors that are used for the fall

[1:33:10] fair. Is it just that building? Is it

[1:33:12] the is it the

[1:33:13] >> Just hold on. Let me get clarity from Shaunette and what was she reported

[1:33:18] cuz she said it is a possibility or no

[1:33:21] she said they could isolate the arena

[1:33:23] what that looks like

[1:33:24] >> but if you have an arena you're going to

[1:33:26] have washrooms

[1:33:27] >> so and to that mayor McQueen my question

[1:33:29] is because respectfully is staff are

[1:33:31] wanting that clarity because when this

[1:33:33] report comes back and council can't

[1:33:34] debate what portions we're going to

[1:33:36] spend on if if we're not clear and

[1:33:39] saying you know are we going to be

[1:33:40] sitting here in another very tricky

[1:33:43] conversation is trying to

[1:33:46] figure it out like

[1:33:49] Yeah.

[1:33:51] >> I Seanette, do you have do you have any

[1:33:53] more clarity on what was said by

[1:33:54] Belelfford with regards to that they

[1:33:56] could get the arena open first? Can you

[1:33:58] clarify that, please?

[1:33:59] >> Uh, I would have to speak to them. They

[1:34:01] just said that they could prioritize

[1:34:03] that area. Again, I don't have the

[1:34:05] reports to to let us know what that

[1:34:07] requires. It could be 500,000. It could

[1:34:10] be 600,000 for that area and maybe only

[1:34:12] 100,000 for the hall. I don't uh have

[1:34:16] that information and I know that's

[1:34:18] important, but I do want to make a a

[1:34:20] point of um I do want to do say

[1:34:24] something in my report today. It did say

[1:34:28] that further mechanical um needs to be

[1:34:31] done. So right now the existing

[1:34:34] compliance report is really pretty much

[1:34:37] null and void because they do see that

[1:34:40] that's not just the issue. There's a

[1:34:42] whole other issue that needs to be

[1:34:44] looked at in order to keep that mold out

[1:34:47] of there. And that does involve the

[1:34:48] arena site as well too. And again we

[1:34:51] don't have that that figure yet either.

[1:34:53] So

[1:34:55] >> MC thank you mayor McQueen. Um there's

[1:35:00] been a couple of comments about, you

[1:35:02] know, not having information. Um council

[1:35:05] has a ton of information. The only

[1:35:06] information they don't have is

[1:35:09] surrounding the cost of mold

[1:35:11] remediation. Um, you have 10-year

[1:35:13] capital P plans, uh, BCA reports, um,

[1:35:18] and and Director Krauss has done an

[1:35:20] incredible job, and I commend her

[1:35:23] because she has inherited, um, this

[1:35:26] file, uh, coming in here, um, but she's

[1:35:30] done an incredible job on providing

[1:35:31] council information, information for the

[1:35:34] longevity of this facility, not just the

[1:35:38] mold remediation. So, the only

[1:35:40] information that council doesn't have is

[1:35:43] the cost of the mold remediation.

[1:35:45] Everything else council has. They know

[1:35:48] what it costs to replace the

[1:35:50] refrigeration equipment. They know when

[1:35:53] the roof needs replacing. All of that 10

[1:35:57] years out has been provided to council.

[1:36:00] So, um, you know, staff staff's done a

[1:36:03] great job in getting council

[1:36:05] information. Um, member McQueen, you

[1:36:07] mentioned that we didn't bring reports

[1:36:09] back to you. We all but said we all but

[1:36:13] said

[1:36:14] that the arena needs to close at this

[1:36:18] the way it stands right now and and we

[1:36:21] just didn't put that on the table. a

[1:36:23] meeting here and there was I think we

[1:36:25] went through that whole report, the

[1:36:26] recreational master plan and there was

[1:36:29] reports and I think deputy mayor moved

[1:36:30] the motion to look at what it would look

[1:36:32] like to repurpose two arenas and it

[1:36:35] never has flatback.

[1:36:37] >> I'm not even talking about that at this

[1:36:39] point in time.

[1:36:39] >> But that talks about the arenas and the

[1:36:41] surfaces,

[1:36:41] >> but I'm talking about the 10-year

[1:36:43] capital plan and the BCA reports. Even

[1:36:45] the community, we met with the community

[1:36:47] members and shared that information, all

[1:36:50] the financial statements, everything. So

[1:36:52] all the reports council has, the only

[1:36:56] information they don't have is what it's

[1:36:58] going to cost to remediate. And and

[1:37:01] director Krauss raised a good point.

[1:37:04] What's the cause of the mold? And is

[1:37:07] that included in part of this

[1:37:08] remediation?

[1:37:10] Because if it's the HVAC system,

[1:37:13] then there's a bigger problem.

[1:37:18] » Mr. Duby,

[1:37:20] >> uh, thank you. So, um, you know, so, so

[1:37:23] when we think about sort of the

[1:37:24] remediation to be able to open the

[1:37:25] doors, um, it it may be beyond just the

[1:37:28] mold, right? I think there was, you

[1:37:29] know, mechanical issues, etc. that that

[1:37:31] are tied to this. And so, um, you know,

[1:37:35] so as we think about the motion, like I I did want to put the motion on the

[1:37:39] floor because I, you know, so I seconded

[1:37:41] it because I think we need to have this

[1:37:43] direct conversation. Um, but as it

[1:37:45] stands now, like I I won't be supporting

[1:37:47] it. Um, and I'll just I'll just leave it

[1:37:49] at that. And it's not that, you know,

[1:37:52] and again, I just do want to reiterate

[1:37:53] this to the community. Um, we are here

[1:37:57] wanting to invest in your facility.

[1:38:00] That's not the question. The question is

[1:38:03] how do we do it in a um in a disciplined

[1:38:09] accountable respect respectful way so

[1:38:13] that we're actually managing every

[1:38:15] single tax dollar responsibly

[1:38:19] um and and um even just putting out you

[1:38:22] know sort of this you know bubble number

[1:38:24] out there I feel uncomfortable

[1:38:27] because we're not directing those

[1:38:29] dollars and if we if we don't, you know,

[1:38:32] put something absolutely specific in

[1:38:35] emotion, [clears throat]

[1:38:36] you know, you know, staff may just have

[1:38:39] to interpret or whatever. And then, you

[1:38:42] know, but and we don't have that

[1:38:43] conversation. Um, you know, when we

[1:38:45] think about 1 percentage on a local tax,

[1:38:49] that's about $180,000.

[1:38:52] Is that right? Right. So, you know, so

[1:38:54] 250, you know, is already, you know, and

[1:38:56] we've already put 150 in for the report.

[1:38:58] So we want to be able to do this in a

[1:39:02] responsible manner. We are with you.

[1:39:06] Have never heard anybody say we don't

[1:39:08] want to support um you know Rocklin in

[1:39:11] our in our arena moving it forward. That conversation has not happened. But

[1:39:15] we do want to ensure that we're doing it

[1:39:17] in a responsible manner because we are

[1:39:19] responsible both to the Rockland

[1:39:21] community and we are responsible to the

[1:39:22] whole municipality as a whole. So every

[1:39:25] 200 you know you know the 11,000 you

[1:39:29] know um citizens and the residents of

[1:39:31] this community were we're responsible to

[1:39:33] everybody and so we have to do it in in

[1:39:35] a in a in in a very transparent

[1:39:38] responsible manner. I'll just leave it

[1:39:39] at that.

[1:39:41] >> I see councelor Lohead has his hand up.

[1:39:46] » Thank you.

[1:39:47] >> We're still speaking to an amendment to

[1:39:48] the main motion.

[1:39:50] >> Correct. Yeah. And thank you Mayor

[1:39:51] McQueen. And just once again, councelor

[1:39:53] Dubick has said it very well. Um

[1:39:56] $250,000 is an an upset limit. Um you

[1:39:59] know, it it represents a considerable

[1:40:01] amount of money. Um you know,

[1:40:03] approaching uh over 1% of the levy and

[1:40:07] um and it's this will be an expensive

[1:40:11] facility to uh rebuild and and maintain

[1:40:15] in the future. And if we want to commit

[1:40:18] to that, which I think we all do, um

[1:40:21] then we have precious little money with

[1:40:22] which to do it. And so um you know, two

[1:40:25] $250,000

[1:40:27] even spent now um without that going

[1:40:30] towards the long-term longevity of this

[1:40:33] facility, um is probably not the best

[1:40:36] money spent. Um, you know, if if I could

[1:40:39] be if we could be guaranteed that that

[1:40:41] $250,000 upset limit would go towards a

[1:40:44] building and, you know, um, have a a

[1:40:47] long-term lasting effect in terms of

[1:40:50] that facility. Great. I don't think that would be a question. But we don't

[1:40:53] know that. Um, it it could very well be

[1:40:56] a a band-aid temporary one-year solution

[1:41:00] uh to a problem. And um I am in

[1:41:04] agreement um that is just not money well

[1:41:07] spent. Um so for that reason I I can't

[1:41:10] support uh this upset limit either.

[1:41:14] Okay.

[1:41:16] Any further amendments or any further

[1:41:18] discussion on the you can make an

[1:41:20] amendment to the amendment too. It

[1:41:22] reduced the amount. If there's no other

[1:41:24] I guess I'll call the vote. All in favor

[1:41:26] of the amendment

[1:41:29] opposed

[1:41:32] that minutes lost.

[1:41:34] Any further discussion or other

[1:41:36] amendments with regards to the motion

[1:41:37] the main motion to receive it for

[1:41:40] information?

[1:41:44] Council go ahead.

[1:41:46] >> Sure. Thank you, Mayor McQueen. I will

[1:41:47] say, you know, we we don't know, right?

[1:41:49] We we don't have the full report here. I

[1:41:51] appreciate as um CEO said we have a lot

[1:41:53] of information but the the piece that

[1:41:55] we're missing is the short-term uh

[1:41:57] report that's going to come back from

[1:41:59] Belffor and you know it may very well

[1:42:02] come back somehow um that uh this is

[1:42:06] going to cost 80,000 or or 90,000 or

[1:42:09] something for this facility to be open

[1:42:11] this year. Um if that's the case you

[1:42:14] know as council Dubic said earlier what is that number that council has an

[1:42:18] appetite for? And I think that we should

[1:42:19] at least have a discussion about that.

[1:42:21] Um there I think there may be a lower

[1:42:24] upset limit above the $50,000 uh

[1:42:27] legislation but below the $250,000 um

[1:42:29] that we feel comfortable spending to get

[1:42:32] this facility operational this year. Um

[1:42:35] so I'd like to I don't know if I want to

[1:42:37] make a motion, but I'd le at least like

[1:42:38] to to have that out there so that we can

[1:42:41] decide if we'd like to have a

[1:42:42] discussion.

[1:42:44] >> Are you suggesting a lower amount than

[1:42:45] 250 and something above 50? I suppose I

[1:42:48] am I I will make the motion of I'll say

[1:42:52] 90,000 just for discussions purposes and

[1:42:54] I'll see if we get a secondary and have

[1:42:55] some conversation around that.

[1:42:59] >> Yep. Your point is

[1:43:00] >> whatever for clarity the motion that

[1:43:02] just failed is the same motion.

[1:43:05] >> It was amount.

[1:43:07] >> It was an amount.

[1:43:07] >> So we're saying the intent is different

[1:43:09] because the intent is different. Yeah.

[1:43:10] Fair. Okay. Just trying to get clear

[1:43:12] making sure that it's should have been

[1:43:14] mentioned

[1:43:15] >> because the if it was a motion to say

[1:43:16] that we add so much well do we even do

[1:43:19] it would be different than adding amount

[1:43:20] the amounts change. Councelor uh Wicens

[1:43:23] you're seconding that

[1:43:25] >> I am and my intent folks was to have

[1:43:29] some money there after we got all the

[1:43:32] reports and stuff back. And I mean, if

[1:43:35] it was going to be a million dollars to

[1:43:36] clean it up, we'd all say, "Oh, boy."

[1:43:39] It was going to be $100,000 to say,

[1:43:41] "Great, go ahead." But as we stand right

[1:43:43] now,

[1:43:45] that arena is going to be closed for the

[1:43:47] season. It's gone.

[1:43:49] So, I will second Joel's motion.

[1:43:54] So, just for clarity on that, Council

[1:43:55] Loya, do you want to repeat your motion

[1:43:57] so Madam Clerk can catch it? Speak up

[1:44:00] louder.

[1:44:00] >> Uh, thank you, M Queen. all the way in

[1:44:02] Ottawa. So, you got to speak up.

[1:44:04] >> Yeah, if you can hear me all the way

[1:44:05] back home. Um to to quickly to the

[1:44:08] deputy mayor's point, I I agree this

[1:44:10] could very well have um been an

[1:44:12] amendment, but I'm you know, just before

[1:44:14] we this we let this die, I'm having

[1:44:15] second thoughts here. Um and so um same intent um different number um I

[1:44:22] I'll I'll say 90,000 um and we'll see

[1:44:27] how council feels about that.

[1:44:30] Madame Clerk.

[1:44:33] >> Um, thank you Mayor McQueen. I just want

[1:44:35] to clarify that it's for reopening of

[1:44:37] the arena portion the same as the

[1:44:39] previous one and from the asset

[1:44:41] management reserve and it's for mold

[1:44:43] remediation.

[1:44:44] >> Yes. Yes. Yes.

[1:44:46] >> Is that correct, Councelor Lowhead?

[1:44:48] >> Yes. Exact same as the other motion but

[1:44:50] a different number of 90.

[1:44:53] Yeah. Okay. Councelor Wickkins is

[1:44:55] seconding. Discussion.

[1:44:59] It's a different number we had a lot of

[1:45:01] discussion on. Go ahead, councelor Duby.

[1:45:04] >> Yeah. So, so just a quick point though,

[1:45:07] um, you know,

[1:45:11] where are where I start to where I feel

[1:45:14] uncomfortable is, um, you know, again,

[1:45:17] we're we're narrowing this this down to

[1:45:19] mold rem remediation, but then there's

[1:45:22] all these other elements like the

[1:45:25] mechanics and the HVAC and so

[1:45:29] >> so we can spend up to 50,000 as a

[1:45:32] council named Duck

[1:45:34] And so and so we could then

[1:45:39] add so if if if the mechanics came back

[1:45:43] or or or or if we needed to address the

[1:45:46] mechanics then that would be a separate

[1:45:48] item you can do 50,000 if you if council

[1:45:52] wished. So I would say probably if it

[1:45:54] comes back the report comes back from

[1:45:56] Belelfford and says you're going to need

[1:45:58] 90 or less and they get it open then

[1:46:01] you're going to have to look at the fan

[1:46:03] and that exhaust issue because that was

[1:46:05] an issue that's been identified through

[1:46:07] the health and safety of that building

[1:46:08] which is separate to the mold

[1:46:11] remmeration

[1:46:14] because we had that report in July

[1:46:18] >> and and you've had it at your meetings

[1:46:19] at Rockland and it's you need to get it

[1:46:21] going before October before the arena.

[1:46:23] But there's no use spending that money

[1:46:26] if if they don't get the if they can't

[1:46:28] get the arena open from the mold

[1:46:30] remiration, right? Does that not make

[1:46:32] sense?

[1:46:35] Uh um so so I guess my other question is

[1:46:37] then like you know are there other um

[1:46:40] potential

[1:46:42] needs to to open beyond mold and the

[1:46:46] HVAC and then are we just peace like is

[1:46:50] are we just continuing to peace meal on

[1:46:52] top like it's

[1:46:54] >> so I'll go I'll go to director Krauss

[1:46:56] because I know there's a report that

[1:46:58] came back in July and said it was

[1:47:00] identified that there need to be an

[1:47:02] improvement on air quality for the

[1:47:04] exhaust. for the arena surface and you

[1:47:06] had a price for that and it was fans and

[1:47:08] you had you had a quote on that. So the

[1:47:10] question is, is there other things

[1:47:12] that's going to be I think it was

[1:47:13] identified that the the person that

[1:47:16] certifies the system can can certify it

[1:47:18] again providing when they go to do it, will fire up. I'll leave that

[1:47:22] director KS.

[1:47:23] >> Uh that's correct, mayor. There was a a

[1:47:25] report previously that stated that, but

[1:47:28] that was before all the mold issue and

[1:47:29] that came um in play. So again back to

[1:47:33] the in the report I've wrote uh for

[1:47:36] today uh they have Belffor has indicated

[1:47:40] that there needs to be definitely a

[1:47:42] mechanical the whole mechanical HVAC

[1:47:45] system needs to be looked at. So it is

[1:47:47] more just than what needs to be done in

[1:47:50] the Z I'm going to call it the ZAM room

[1:47:53] um to get rid of exhaust there. So I I

[1:47:56] think we're maybe being preemptive by

[1:47:59] putting that in when the whole system

[1:48:02] needs to be done and it needs to be done

[1:48:05] together. So the whole because

[1:48:07] everything's peace meal as it is now and

[1:48:09] they're trying to tell us that it all

[1:48:10] needs to work together. So

[1:48:13] >> but if if you're going into the winter

[1:48:14] months in my mind you're not collecting

[1:48:18] moisture

[1:48:20] other than we have the dehumidifier for

[1:48:21] the ice surface that's there today.

[1:48:24] But overall, get through the season, get

[1:48:26] to next spring, then you're that's going

[1:48:27] to be the bigger picture. That money

[1:48:29] needs to be spent for the whole system

[1:48:30] in the sense of the whole HVAC system,

[1:48:32] the whole building for sure. Does that

[1:48:35] help counsel?

[1:48:38] if I may. Yeah. Yeah. So, what I what

[1:48:41] I'm struggling with is um again,

[1:48:45] you know, providing

[1:48:47] um staff with, you know, direction to

[1:48:50] spend,

[1:48:52] you know, 90,000

[1:48:55] um and you know, for mold specifically,

[1:48:57] but then say the HVAC is, you know,

[1:48:59] 200,000, right? So, so you know, but but

[1:49:03] they will continue to staff will

[1:49:05] continue to march against the 90,000

[1:49:08] because we already gave them that

[1:49:09] direction.

[1:49:10] >> Yeah, that's where the 250 might have

[1:49:11] caught that the probably won't.

[1:49:13] >> But there's still like, you know,

[1:49:14] another So, so again, like we may be

[1:49:17] asking staff to actually execute against

[1:49:20] something that at the end of the day um

[1:49:24] doesn't fit into the bigger picture. It

[1:49:26] doesn't support actually um our intent

[1:49:29] of where we want to go. So, so just for

[1:49:32] that reason, like I I can't support

[1:49:33] this. Um, again, we we need to be able

[1:49:35] to look at this holistically. Um, even

[1:49:37] for the remediation piece, we can't be

[1:49:40] peacemealing the remediation piece

[1:49:42] because it it starts to fall apart and we don't we don't continue to look

[1:49:46] at the bigger remediation as one

[1:49:48] solution. So, for for that reason, I

[1:49:50] just I can't support this. Thank you. At

[1:49:51] >> the end of the day, it could be the

[1:49:52] whole HS HVAC system just needs replaced

[1:49:56] and that solves the whole problem.

[1:49:58] That could be the whole problem, but we

[1:50:00] can't get there because we don't know

[1:50:02] that. We don't know that. So, we can't

[1:50:04] get there. So, we're trying to we're

[1:50:06] sort of we're like this in the dark. So,

[1:50:08] but because of lame duck, that's all we

[1:50:10] can do. The motion's on the floor for

[1:50:11] $90,000.

[1:50:13] Second by move by council, second by

[1:50:15] councelor Rickkins. Any further

[1:50:16] discussion on that?

[1:50:18] Did you have a question?

[1:50:22] >> I didn't mean to pry it.

[1:50:24] >> There's more of a comment. And I mean

[1:50:25] the only thing we know for sure if we

[1:50:27] received the report for information and

[1:50:28] nothing else we will not have ice in the

[1:50:30] Iraq Arena for the coming ice season.

[1:50:34] Um

[1:50:36] in my opinion

[1:50:39] $90,000

[1:50:41] probably not not going to get it done

[1:50:43] and uh it's a slim thread perhaps. But

[1:50:47] um the caveat has to be I I think to

[1:50:51] address councelor Dubick's concerns if

[1:50:55] there was no mold problem we would have

[1:50:57] done whatever it would have taken within

[1:50:59] reason to get that ice plant up and

[1:51:00] running for the ice season. We would

[1:51:01] have done the HV uh system the uh if the

[1:51:06] ice plant needed some um maintenance to

[1:51:08] keep it running for a year while we

[1:51:10] looked at the bigger picture.

[1:51:13] So uh I am going to support the 90,000

[1:51:16] but it's a slim hope that if we uh you

[1:51:21] know we'll we'll have done what we can

[1:51:22] since uh the first amendment was lost.

[1:51:24] Thank you.

[1:51:26] >> Okay. I've been asked to uh call call

[1:51:29] the question. This is on amendment but

[1:51:31] I'm going to call the question. I have

[1:51:32] lots of discussion on this. So it's for

[1:51:34] 90,000. All in favor?

[1:51:37] Opposed? That motion's carried. Uh go

[1:51:40] back to the main motion as amended.

[1:51:43] Any other discussion on that motion?

[1:51:45] It's been moved and second. All in favor

[1:51:48] of that motion?

[1:51:50] Opposed?

[1:51:53] Do that again. All in favor?

[1:51:56] Opposed?

[1:51:58] Motion is carried. All right. So, moving

[1:52:00] on. That takes care of the three items

[1:52:02] today for today's agenda. Seeing there's

[1:52:04] no other business because it was a

[1:52:05] called, it was a special meeting. I

[1:52:06] understand now. I called it. I put the

[1:52:08] items on there. So, there's no addition

[1:52:09] to that. Thank you for that clarity,

[1:52:10] Madam Clerk. I figured that one out. All

[1:52:12] right. So, since there's no other uh

[1:52:14] items, I need a motion to adjurnn. Move

[1:52:17] by.

[1:52:19] >> Oh, sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

[1:52:21] That I didn't put on there. Yeah, I know

[1:52:24] you did. Okay. Yeah. And and just Yeah.

[1:52:27] Sorry, folks. This this clarifies this

[1:52:29] puts it in bylaw of the decisions that

[1:52:31] were made today. So, that's why the

[1:52:33] confirming bylaw is there. So, I will

[1:52:34] read it out. that bylaw 2026-083

[1:52:38] being a bylaw to confirm the proceedings

[1:52:40] of a special meeting of council on

[1:52:41] August 20th, 2026 be read first, second,

[1:52:45] and third time and finally passed and

[1:52:47] the mayor and clerk be authorized to

[1:52:48] sign and seal the same notwithstanding

[1:52:50] any contrary provisions of council. Can

[1:52:52] I have a move and a second for that

[1:52:53] please? Councelor Owed, councelor

[1:52:55] Wickens. Any discussion on that? Seeing

[1:52:57] none, all in favor?

[1:52:59] That's carried unanimously. Now we get

[1:53:02] to the adjournment that resolved the

[1:53:03] council adjourn to the call the chair. I

[1:53:05] need a move and a second or please

[1:53:06] councelor deputy mayor. Second by

[1:53:10] councelor wicens. All in favor? That is

[1:53:12] carried. That is at 253. Thanks everyone

[1:53:15] for your patience.

[1:53:17] Trying times.

Special Meeting of Council - 20 Aug 2026

Transcript