[0:00] Good afternoon. Well, good evening. Uh this is the Guilford Board of Education.

[0:04] Um tonight we have a special meeting um and are welcoming our colleagues on the

[0:09] board of selection um on the board of finance and on the standing building

[0:14] committee to be with us tonight. Uh so welcome. Thank you for joining us. We

[0:20] are going to hear tonight a presentation um uh by the Friars group. I'm going to

[0:26] turn it over to Dr. Freeman to um appropriately and adequately introduce

[0:30] them. Um this is a group that has done a facilities study for the board of

[0:36] education. This is something that we do uh regularly. Um this is a 10-year

[0:42] study. The board of education has had the privilege of hearing um uh this

[0:49] study or or getting initial presentation of this study um from the the gentleman

[0:54] to my left. Uh and we are now uh wanted to not only give the public a chance to

[1:02] see this presentation but certainly have our colleagues again on the board of

[1:06] selectmen, board of finance and standing building committee receive this as well.

[1:11] This is going to be an opportunity for um these four groups of folks um to ask

[1:18] questions um uh to learn about what this facility

[1:22] study is telling us. This is the kind of report that's um

[1:28] going to be used pretty heavily um as we move forward by uh Guilford Public

[1:35] Schools and by the town in considering uh various projects that need to get

[1:40] done um and and kind of making priority decisions around those things. So I am

[1:46] going to turn it over to Dr. Freeman um who's going to introduce uh the

[1:51] presentation tonight. >> Thank you Dr. Bis Tracy. you pretty much

[1:53] said it all. The only thing that I would note is that um the presentation and the

[1:58] figures that you're going to hear tonight are based on architectural

[2:02] engineering and facilities um considerations. The numbers that we

[2:07] share with you tonight while they while they will become a foundation of a road

[2:12] map and a planning tool for us moving forward do not take into consideration

[2:17] other financial or political implications considerations. So it will

[2:22] become the baseline of a road map that we will use to inform our decision and

[2:26] our planning and our preventative maintenance over the next 10 years. Um,

[2:31] and with that, I am pleased to uh introduce tonight um Mike Serrano and

[2:36] Bryce Sens and Jamie Young from Frier and Associates who are going to give us

[2:41] first an overview of the um of the study and then we'll open it up to

[2:45] conversation, question and answer for members of the building committee and

[2:49] the three boards who are with us this evening. I'll turn it directly over to

[2:53] you. Thank you again for being here. >> Our pleasure. Uh evening everybody. So,

[2:58] uh, what we're going to present tonight, um, is a a a piece of the study. The

[3:03] study itself, the facility study itself is,400 pages. Um, we we've looked at um,

[3:09] at every school in the district. Um we looked at it um for what is uh what is

[3:14] lacking, what is broken, what it needs to be uh on a deferred maintenance

[3:18] schedule um in order again as Doc said to um inform decisions moving up over

[3:24] the next 10 years um for our facility study. Um so we're going to show you an

[3:30] overall big picture of of the two the the seven and the 10-year uh look at um

[3:35] capital improvement expenditures um as a planning tool. Um, and we've

[3:42] broken it down into just each individual school and the big picture of of what's

[3:47] going on in each school. And if you want to go through the 1400 pages, that is

[3:51] the backup to this. Um, I welcome you to do that. All the information is there.

[3:55] Um, and so I'm going to hand it over to Bryce and Jamie to uh dive into the uh

[3:58] study. >> We'll make all the supporting materials

[4:01] available to all of you first thing tomorrow morning.

[4:06] » Okay. So to start off, we're going to go through each of the seven schools. We

[4:10] visited the four elementary schools, two middle schools, and this high school

[4:15] that we're in right now. So I'll start with Cox. Well, first a summary of the

[4:21] overall CIP. So these were our findings as you'll we'll discuss in more detail

[4:26] for each of the schools. Um, but we put together these extensive spreadsheets to

[4:32] show you the costs that we recommend for each year over the next 10 years. And we

[4:37] tallied that for over the 10 years, which also includes escalation. Um, and

[4:43] the total price here came to a little over $92 million. Um, and when you look

[4:50] at the reports, you'll be able to see at the end of the document these extensive

[4:53] spreadsheets that detail out the items and show you the escalation and all the

[4:59] costs that are associated with these numbers.

[5:02] So to start with Cox Elementary, um this school over the 10 years we came to just

[5:07] over $6 million. The majority of that cost what were in these items I'm going

[5:13] to present to you here. Um HVAC the bulk of that is re recommended around 5 years

[5:19] from now. A lot of it had to do with duck work and air distribution and

[5:24] insulation of the existing piping. Uh also included in this is exterior sets

[5:29] and case work. a lot of it is aged and some of it isn't necessarily accessible.

[5:34] Uh so we recommended over the next 3 to 5 years to replace and make upgrades for

[5:40] those items. Also included in this is kitchen equipment. Um this was brought

[5:47] out about 9 years uh considering the condition of all of the equipment in

[5:51] there. We had an um kitchen consultant who thoroughly uh cataloged all of the

[5:58] equipment in each of the schools. And then the other big ticket item for this

[6:02] school was exterior improvements. We met with the police department, the fire

[6:07] department um to talk about any security concerns that they had, whether it's

[6:12] sitewise, interior, and with that for each school, we came up with a budget

[6:16] for security upgrades. Also, exterior improvements. A big ticket item here was

[6:21] new pavement and striping

[6:26] for Baldwin Middle School. This school being um a little bit older, this one is

[6:32] Oh, sorry, that one's not older. It's 1968, but um being a bigger school, it

[6:38] requires a little bit more uh money towards these capital improvements. Um

[6:42] one of the big ticket items was roof replacement. EPA EP dam roofing, asphalt

[6:48] shingles, and flashing were big items that needed a lot of repair. Um, again,

[6:52] exterior improvements and security improvements. Um, the lower uh parking

[6:58] lot requires some restriping and repaving, some security upgrades. We had

[7:02] talked about since that has a long driveway coming down to it. There was

[7:05] concerns about car access um and other similar security upgrades. Another big

[7:12] ticket item was casework. again with just overall aging repairs and

[7:16] accessibility. Um being an older school, the masonry,

[7:20] the exterior masonry needed looks like it needs a bit of work. Um some of these

[7:25] repairs are considered more immediate repairs because we saw a lot of

[7:29] deterioration at the exterior and certain facads, especially where

[7:33] moisture buildup and mold growth and things like that were occurring. Um,

[7:37] also electrical upgrade upgrades, upgrades to the emergency systems, the

[7:42] exterior lighting and controls and distribution panels. And then we put in

[7:47] some allowances for some accessibility and abatement for some of these

[7:50] upgrades. Um, being in an older building, abatement is definitely a

[7:55] concern. Uh, for Kelvin Leit, we're around $12

[7:59] million over the 10 years. Again, this was for HVAC replacing um AC units and

[8:07] upgrading the HVAC controls. Also, in this one, a roof replacement, which we

[8:13] considered an immediate need for EP EPDM and asphalt shingle roofing.

[8:19] The plumbing systems need some upgrades for storm drainage systems and replacing

[8:24] some of the older manual flush valves to make them more energy efficient and also

[8:30] uh address some of the accessibility concerns.

[8:33] Electrical upgrades, the main electrical service, electrical power distribution

[8:38] uh for casework. Again, this is similar accessibility concerns in older

[8:43] facilities kitchen equipment. And then we've also

[8:47] put in some allowances for there's an area where there's a connection to what

[8:53] looks like an an addition for some portables that isn't necessarily

[8:57] accessible. So we've recommended an allowance for making that accessible and

[9:01] then just general mechanical maintenance because I believe the school had some

[9:05] newer systems.

[9:09] Guilford High School being your newest building had far less that was required

[9:13] over the 10 years with some kitchen kitchen equipment, replacement of some

[9:16] ovens, things like that, just keeping up with the times and all of your students

[9:21] coming in and out and then exterior improvements and some ex uh security

[9:25] upgrades. But overall, this school obviously has the least amount because

[9:29] it's your newest facility. Guilford Lakes, uh we're about $6

[9:35] billion here. um exterior improvements, security

[9:39] upgrades, sidewalk replacements, again, kitchen equipment, and again in the in

[9:44] our report, you'll see a detailed breakdown of each equipment item that

[9:48] they're um recommending being replaced and when they recommend that. And again,

[9:53] exterior sopets and casework. And uh again, we put in an allowance for

[9:59] just some general repairs, general maintenance items that weren't

[10:04] necessarily big ticket items that needed to be broken out individually, but

[10:08] things that just need to be kept up with over time. And then again, abatement for

[10:11] any of these types any type of work that might impact uh like ceilings or

[10:16] anything like that. And then Melissa Jones, we are just over

[10:22] $3 million. The bulk of that went towards electrical, the electrical power

[10:26] distribution, main electrical service and upgrading emergency lighting on the

[10:31] interior and exterior. And then exterior improvement, sidewalk and ramp

[10:36] replacement. Some of the ramps were a little older and we were concerned about

[10:41] the slopes as well. So some of that needs to be revisited with a we would

[10:45] recommend a civil engineer. and Adams Middle School. This one was

[10:51] the biggest one. Um it's one of the older buildings and this one came in at

[10:57] about $50 million. The bulk of that goes towards the HVAC upgrades. We

[11:03] recommended installing a fully ducted system within the old 1930s portion of

[11:08] the building and update the system controls, replace existing duct work,

[11:13] HBAC units, RTUs. All of that has a huge impact on the

[11:19] structure of the building. There's an attic space above, so configuring all of

[11:23] that would be quite the challenge. So, a lot of that money would go towards

[11:27] structural upgrades that would be needed to support any new units that were

[11:31] installed in this portion of the building. We also recommended plumbing

[11:36] upgrades, replace existing fixtures, um sanitary and vent piping, replace storm

[11:41] and natural gas piping, and then roof replacement.

[11:45] the uh the shingle roof that you have is brand new and in beautiful condition,

[11:49] but the EPADM portions of the roof are definitely older and require replacement

[11:55] along with the flashing. And then we also recommended a full uh fire

[12:00] suppression system. Only a small portion of the building has any system and to be

[12:05] to make this building fully compliant with current standards, we recommended

[12:09] the entire building be provided with this. And then a full kitchen renovation

[12:14] is something that we discussed uh at length with the superintendent and

[12:19] facilities director. Um it's a little bit undersized at the moment. So we put

[12:25] in a number for a full renovation. And then additionally electrical upgrades

[12:30] which would also be partially in conjunction with all these HBAC

[12:34] upgrades. um upgrade exterior emergency lighting, um distribution panels to help

[12:41] support all of those new systems and data cabling upgrades,

[12:45] as well as casework repairs and accessibility concerns. We also put in

[12:50] an allowance for potential swing space depending on when this work can happen.

[12:54] It might be too expensive to or extensive to happen over just one summer

[13:00] when you're doing a whole new HVA system or fire protection system. Uh, so we put

[13:04] in an allowance for a potential swing space.

[13:10] And as we continued our discussions about Adams, we ended up going we

[13:15] extended our CIP to 20 years. Considering the age of the building and

[13:20] all of the CIP just for the 10 years, the cost associated with that is, as you

[13:24] can see, quite quite intense. Um, so over the a 20-year period, we would also

[13:30] recommend uh replacing the modular classroom, which came out to a little

[13:36] over $7 million. And then included in that some concrete sidewalk updates,

[13:40] replacement of uh the driveways, and over a 10 20-year period, escalation

[13:46] alone is almost $7 million. So that's where you get the 14 million at the top

[13:50] of the page here.

[13:54] And as we were working with the team on this, we looked at what it would cost to

[13:59] have a renovate as new your existing building versus new construction. And

[14:06] then we also explored new construction with a bonus which the bonus would

[14:10] happen if we can prove to the state that building a new building would actually

[14:15] be less expensive than renovating your existing building. So as you can see

[14:19] that we break down um on the left that's the total number and then we in the

[14:27] middle you have the eligible state share and on this right that's what Guilford

[14:31] would be would have to pay for this um these changes.

[14:36] So, renovate as new came out to about $99 million for the existing building,

[14:42] including the uh portables that you would want you would potentially

[14:46] replace. New construction of just what your allowable is based on your

[14:50] enrollment projections does not include that extension because that is over the

[14:56] allowable per the state standards. Um, so that came to about $87 million. And

[15:03] then as you can see, when you do new construction with the um with the

[15:11] existing square footage minus the portables, it's about 68 million. But

[15:16] since we were able to show here that you would have um it would be less expensive

[15:21] to do renovate as new or no, sorry, new construction, renovate as new would be

[15:26] more expensive. Then you get your construction bonus. your grant, if you

[15:30] went in for a grant, your share would actually go up to the renovate as new

[15:35] percentage, which at the time was about 30%. Um, it's I think it's changed. The

[15:39] 20 27 numbers have come out. So, these numbers would need to be tweaked a

[15:43] little bit, but it's actually comes out to about $61 million.

[15:50] » I just wanted to plug in. Could you go back to the first page really quickly?

[15:56] Maybe. So, so in the So, that was a lot of

[16:00] information that didn't I'm sorry, did the second page with with the

[16:04] » that one, >> right? The the summary. So, if you So,

[16:07] um everything that she just went through is summarized here. And if you add up,

[16:12] um everything that she just showed you, um you'll you'll see there's there's a

[16:16] lot of other things that are in the report that are not accounted for. Those

[16:20] were just the big the big picture items so that we could actually make a

[16:23] presentation tonight and not have to go through,400 pages of of of uh of uh this

[16:30] report. Um this also so this also accounts for um the the cost of money as

[16:35] you go through the years. So we've escalated the price of these when if we

[16:39] say we're going to do something in we recommend you do something in one year,

[16:42] it's next year's dollars. If we say if we say we're going to do something in

[16:45] five years, it's it's the price of money in five years and then out 10 years

[16:50] using a 4% per year escalation in price. So that's kind of what we did as a broad

[16:55] brush. Keep in mind that these are budgets and not cost estimates. These

[16:59] budgets are based on on uh this was vetted by us, by our engineering firms

[17:04] that we work with, by our cost estimator um as numbers that we are currently

[17:08] using for for uh prevailing wage construction um in in this area of

[17:14] Connecticut. So, um we've accounted for escalation and we've attempted to

[17:18] account for uh state reimbursements. Some things are reimburseable, some

[17:22] things are not reimburseable. Um, and keep in mind that this this um report

[17:27] that we're asked to do is capital improvements. It's it's not um an educ

[17:31] educational specificationbased review. It is just simply to maintain

[17:36] your buildings. Um with that >> Yeah. So, oh,

[17:41] » go ahead. >> Sorry. Um uh Cliff, I wanted to give you

[17:45] an opportunity. Is there anything you want to say at this moment?

[17:50] » No. No. They went through all the large ticket items. So, okay, I think that's

[17:54] important part. >> Okay. Um, I imagine there could be

[17:58] questions about uh process here and and then uh no doubt uh questions or

[18:05] conversation around specific schools or specific items. Um, and I have no need

[18:11] to kind of structure uh the conversation in any particular way. So really open to

[18:20] um wherever someone might want to start. Uh a lot to take in. Um even just that

[18:26] at the higher level. >> Yeah, Amy, go ahead.

[18:29] » Um the roof replacement for Adams, was the timing such that it included the

[18:34] capital um funding for the gym that we just passed or is that

[18:40] » Yes, we knew about that. So we did not include that in the number.

[18:43] » Darn. There are some small items that we did

[18:48] chip off of the list. Primarily, they were some of the safety and security

[18:52] upgrades. Now, those would fall into the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars

[18:57] that we were able to chip away at this summer. Um, but not any of the

[19:01] significant work we we rolled into the numbers here.

[19:05] » Yeah. So there'll be some people who are viewing this uh skeptically and will ask

[19:11] the question how much of this is nice to have as opposed to must have that is

[19:19] over the next 10 years do we really have any sensible choice about

[19:25] ignoring any of this or are these the things that really have to be done and

[19:31] get going on it or you you might be able to pair 25 or $30 million off it and and

[19:38] down to bare minimums.

[19:42] » Yeah. So, so, so we did this report alongside

[19:47] um our engineers that that uh design and build with us on a daily CES who um and

[19:54] um so they went through and they looked at the the the life expectancy of the

[19:58] mechanical equipment um and we based the cost big numbers here are mechanical,

[20:04] electrical and plumbing systems as you can and roofs. So, we base the roofs on

[20:08] the roof age and when the warranty of the roof is up, the roof, you could have

[20:12] had the greatest install ever, and your 20-year roof will last you 40 years. You

[20:17] may have had you may have gotten the McCoy units on the roof that were built

[20:21] on a Wednesday and not on a Monday, and they could last you 30 years and not the

[20:26] the to the end of the warranty. What I'm trying to say is we tried to take a look

[20:31] at an objective look at this and we projected this stuff out to the life

[20:35] expectancy of the equipment. You guys have excellent maintenance here and

[20:40] things could last longer, but the the warranties and the maintenance um

[20:45] schedules say this is when it's time to do the work. I know that you can take

[20:51] your chances, but but these are the And then and then with the accessibility

[20:55] things, um the accessibility things should have been addressed a long time

[20:59] ago, as you know, we address those when the money is available to do them. We

[21:04] call them out so that you can put them on your schedule. As far as nice to

[21:08] haves, I did right out of the gate say that we were not addressing educational

[21:12] issues. We were just simply addressing facilities issues. Education's at my

[21:18] heart, but at the same token, we were just trying to make sure that your

[21:20] buildings function as they were intended to be when they were designed and can

[21:24] continue to operate. So, my short answer is you have to take this report very

[21:28] seriously and and attempt to um put these into your capital budgets and this

[21:35] again is just a tool and hopefully your schools last for a lot longer, but they

[21:39] are aged.

[21:43] What's the point? Just focusing on Adamson a moment. What's the point

[21:46] beyond which we do so many of these projects that you're recommending that

[21:52] it no longer makes sense to consider a new building?

[21:56] » No longer makes sense to consider a new building

[21:58] » in terms of doing capital improvement projects. Yeah.

[22:01] » So, in other words, if once we spend $27 million, we're not going to spend

[22:04] another $60 million to build a new building. You're correct. Okay. And like

[22:08] so what's the time limit that we have to consider the first $20 million worth of

[22:13] work? Is that the roof? >> I mean the roof is is a huge chunk of

[22:17] that. >> Correct. And we picked off part of it

[22:19] this year. Keep in mind, right? There's a huge difference between doing this

[22:24] work. This is maintenance. This is replacement of systems, right? Which

[22:29] normally gives you another 20 years. And if we're looking at Adam specifically,

[22:33] that building, which has been almost 100 years, another 10 years, it'll be 100

[22:38] years old. Um, by by putting in $30 million, you're not

[22:44] getting another 50 years out of it, right? Putting another 60 million into

[22:48] that building, you're not going to get another 20. You'll get 20 years, but

[22:52] you're not getting another 50 or 75. So, the the point is is that this is more

[22:56] maintenance to keep it going. If you were to build a new school and spend 60

[23:00] million, that's like this high school, right? We expect this now to last 50

[23:04] years. But if I spend 30 million at Adams, that's only getting you 20 years.

[23:09] So, I don't know if you want to spend 30 million to get 20 years or do you spend

[23:12] 60 to get 50 to 60 years or 100 out of it again. But if we decided tomorrow to

[23:18] build a new school, we would still have five or six years worth of band-aids

[23:24] that would still need to be invested in that school to get us there. Now, the

[23:28] band-aids won't cost the full 54 million, but it would be some some

[23:33] amount of money like the roof that we did this summer to make sure that we

[23:37] could get to um a a new ribbon cutting because that won't happen overnight. if

[23:43] if we decide if the community decides that that's the way to go.

[23:48] » But the things that are on this list have nothing to do with the building

[23:51] being 100 years old. The things that are on this list are HBAC, which hasn't that

[23:57] maybe has something to do with being an old building. But once you install that,

[24:02] you're going to get the lifetime of that out of it.

[24:04] » 20 years approximately. >> That's what they building too.

[24:09] » What's that? >> That would be the same in the new

[24:10] building. >> Same. understand that same

[24:14] » right you've replaced that same HBAC in 20 years old easier to install Matt

[24:21] » thank you very much for the presentation did a nice job explaining it to layman

[24:25] uh my question is a little bit more around prioritization you gave us one to

[24:30] 10 year numbers uh we have a habit here in town of bonding on an annual basis

[24:35] for certain projects and a lot of those that we bond for I've seen up here okay

[24:41] uh So, at some point, is there a way to prioritize on an annualized basis on

[24:46] these I'm going to call them peripheral, you know, not the $50 million project.

[24:52] Um, and could we theoretically live over the next 10 years with bonding for $4

[25:00] million a year because that's what we've been historically doing. So this is a

[25:04] little premature in in in in the conversation to have that, but that kind

[25:08] of prioritization schedule will give us some idea of how we could afford to do

[25:13] some of this stuff over a period of time with having the balloon payment uh due

[25:19] for the for the for the one major project at some at some point down the

[25:23] road. So we did actually attempt to address that with this report. We tried

[25:28] to bundle these um projects so that they made sense. um what is what is uh what

[25:34] is the priority on what's going to fail early and what makes sense to bundle

[25:38] things together. Um so the HVAC and roofing for instance kind of need to be

[25:43] bundled together because you don't want to replace your roof and then have to go

[25:46] and rip the units off and and redo all of your dunage and and redo all of that

[25:50] again. So we tried to bundle all of the things together to to get one

[25:54] mobilization at a school by a certain group of contractors. Um, so instead of

[25:59] it being a a a a flow that kind of looks straight across

[26:04] it, it kind of goes like this, you know, o over time. So, so it's really more of

[26:09] a question of um and and then we try to look at what projects the state is going

[26:13] to assist you in in so what what is the state going to allow you to bundle

[26:17] together um and what's going to be so like the accessibility projects, the

[26:21] roofing projects, all of that stuff. you'll get some money for a lot of the

[26:25] uh the you know the carpet replacements and the ceiling replacements and the the

[26:28] the cafeteria equipment. They're not going to give you any money for that.

[26:32] So, you can you can kind of uh prioritize that a as needed. Um this

[26:38] again being the tool to to help you decide that. But we did try to bundle it

[26:42] that way. >> It was hard to see, Matt, but on that

[26:44] first slide, the first thing that you saw was that 10-year calendar. And

[26:48] again, impossible to see there, but it shows you projected spending per year

[26:54] for those 10 years, but that is built on that $93 million number, not on a total

[27:00] of 40 over 10 years. >> Um, and again, right, this is this does

[27:07] not take into consideration other financial pressures or political

[27:10] pressures or anything else. Um, so there might be some ve that could take place

[27:16] here, some right things that we could choose to address, not address. And if

[27:21] there were to be a largecale decision about Adams, then that that calendar

[27:27] changes dramatically while you look at six buildings and a building project in

[27:33] the way we did 12 years ago now when we did this.

[27:36] » And this is a working document. So we can actually replug those things and you

[27:41] call us up and say, you know, we're not doing Adams and take it off and move it

[27:43] out 5 years. >> So So Matt, that's what I do on a

[27:46] regular basis every year when I go for bonding is I work with Paul and the

[27:49] staff, look at all the buildings and rep prioritize projects. You know, for

[27:53] example, we look at Adam's roof and go, can I get one more year out of that

[27:56] section or not? And then we determine that has to stay or we push it one more

[28:00] year. So it is a fluent number that goes up and down based upon what we think we

[28:05] can afford, you know, from talking to you and and the board of finance uh and

[28:09] where we stand with the operations and actual physical condition of those

[28:14] different projects and and the buildings themselves.

[28:18] » Just just a quick thank you for the that explanation. I couldn't I couldn't see

[28:22] that truck. Apologies with >> it'll be easier to see tomorrow. We'll

[28:26] get that over to Thank you very much. Um,

[28:30] I'll I'll pass on this and I'll I'll wait.

[28:33] » Mike, do you have a question? >> Um, first of all, nice job.

[28:38] » Um, we kind of we kind of live in the same same sphere. So, um, to kind of

[28:43] address a couple different issues, and I'm not going to answer this question

[28:46] because it's on that last slide, which I appreciate because we do analysis like

[28:50] this all the time. Um, when I look at a something like this,

[28:55] for example, I see $92 million. And the community, of course, is going to go $92

[29:00] million is a lot of money. But communities do this so that they can

[29:05] actually, and I think you probably already kind of figured this out. I

[29:08] think we're all going to come to the realization that there's going to be one

[29:12] usually there's one or two projects that are like, "Wow, that's the big that's

[29:16] the big one." There's no surprise here, I don't think, from any of us that Adams

[29:20] is the big ticket item. So, I would be looking at this at least from the

[29:26] summary that you've got $92 million, but if you subtract out the 50,

[29:31] now wait, wait for it, cuz there's a reason why I'm doing this. Now, you're

[29:36] at what, you know, call it 42 million over 10 years, which now gets to your 4

[29:41] million. But that means you're taking Adams and you're saying, "All right, you

[29:45] can't necessarily bond for $18 million for the HVAC at Adams."

[29:50] » So this is where as a community we need to start thinking, okay,

[29:54] going to Lose Point and the Mass Point. How much money do we sink into Adams

[29:59] before it makes sense to take it offline and build possibly a new school that

[30:06] would be more cost effective? And I didn't want to necessarily try to answer

[30:11] the question I'd like you to, but if you go to the last slide, which had that

[30:14] reimbursement, this is what communities look like when you hear about the

[30:18] community somewhere in Connecticut that says, okay, they did a study and this

[30:22] school is now being is going forward for referendum to do a renovate as new.

[30:29] And you look at, you know, the costs here. The one thing that I wanted to

[30:33] make sure was clear that there's a 20-year CIP that is put out for, you

[30:38] know, call it $64 million based on all the analysis that you did and then a

[30:43] renovate as new is $99 million. Could you for the people here in on TV,

[30:50] could you just explain why there's such a difference between why is there a

[30:55] 20-year CIP of 64 million and a renovate as new for $99 million, which is

[31:01] basically adding 50% of the cost. Why is that?

[31:06] So, so we were we were asked to put together a 10-year CIP and when we

[31:12] looked at Adams um and saw the problem here, uh the first short answer to that

[31:19] is is a bond is going to be for 20 years and not 10 years. So, you wouldn't want

[31:24] to compare a 10-year CIP to a 20-year bond project. You want to go look at

[31:29] apples to apples. And so what would happen is if we looked at Adams as a

[31:34] 10-year project um and disregarded the portables and the the the fact that you

[31:38] the swing space would be required for a renovate as new or a new construction.

[31:43] That's money that that you you you wouldn't be comparing apples to apples

[31:47] if you didn't look at it through the lens of 20 years. So that's why this one

[31:51] kind of sat in the in in a kind of a separate category because we get to the

[31:56] end of the 10 years, you've spent your $50 million. Um, but you've got other

[32:02] money sitting out there that you're going to have to spend between year 11

[32:05] and 20. That's real money that we didn't want to disregard. Um, and so that

[32:11] became the comparison for do we do the CIP? Do we look at and the whole reason

[32:16] to look at a renovate as new is is um the cost of money. the state's going to

[32:20] give you reimbursement on that renovate is new. They're you're not going to get

[32:23] renovate you're not going to get money on a lot of these CIP projects. So

[32:27] that's why this was looked at in a in a different lens. Did I answer that? Okay.

[32:32] To >> you you did and I I just want to say I

[32:34] appreciate this slide because this could be a very key slide for us to keep going

[32:39] back to cuz guess what? It's only going to get worse as the years go on. Um but

[32:44] I know that there's escalation that's part of this as well that I'm sure you

[32:48] added in. But this is where communities and and ours included would look at a

[32:52] new construction with the bonus. Let's just assume that we get all the bonuses

[32:55] that Jamie talked about. The Guilford share would be 60 million versus doing

[33:00] 64 million over 20 years. Well, that is something to think about that

[33:05] it's actually cheaper for the community to go for a new school

[33:08] » and get the reimbursement than to do repairs over and over and over again and

[33:13] get almost virtually nothing, >> which has which also has another added

[33:17] benefit. It allows us to also at the same time pour fewer dollars think about

[33:24] education and instruction. And so we've said several times that this

[33:28] presentation is about facilities only and and we understand those limitations.

[33:34] But if the community chooses to go in this direction, just as we did with this

[33:38] high school, this high school project 12 years ago wasn't just a thoughtful and

[33:45] efficient savings for the town over time. It also became instructionally

[33:50] wholly different than that old building was. and we would have that opportunity

[33:54] open up to us if we talk about this slide. That opportunity does not open to

[34:00] us when we talk about all of the other slides that we've looked at tonight.

[34:04] Right. My my only last thing is that we did this with the high school and you

[34:09] know this is the analysis that we do with Adams and ended up being the right

[34:12] move for the high school. I mean, of of course you could look around and say,

[34:15] "Of course it was." But back then when we were looking at the numbers, it was

[34:19] cheaper to actually build a new school than try to renovate what was here by by

[34:23] by a long shot. So you >> I did. Yeah. So while I'm glad we're

[34:28] talking about Adams, I'm wondering if we could have the same conversation around

[34:31] Calvin Lee. I mean, as a matter of fact, it seems to actually have a higher

[34:34] percentage of placement need to replacement value or sorry, repair need

[34:39] to replacement value than Adams does. So, I mean, should we be having the same

[34:43] conversation around Calvin Le as well? >> So, Calvin Le is coming to the 20-year

[34:49] life cycle on a lot of items that were done. So, when I first arrived, we

[34:54] replaced the entire HVAC, the replaced portion of the roof, replaced all the

[35:00] windows, and we did some interior upgrades. It was not renovated like new,

[35:05] but that hit the the largest costs uh for that building.

[35:10] I think it was about a $9 million project uh back then almost 20 years

[35:14] ago. So all those systems now are coming uh at the same time are coming up uh due

[35:20] to be looked at. Now that being said again will the windows last over 20

[35:25] years? Yes. That you know we'll keep pushing those and we've done certain

[35:28] stuff to uh increase their their lifespan. But uh things like the HVAC

[35:34] system, yes, we're starting to see things start to break down and have

[35:38] problems. Will that have to get replaced? Yes, it will. Uh so, um it is

[35:44] a potential time to discuss that. I just don't see that that building being as

[35:50] large of a need as Adams uh and as critical as Adams. I think I'd rather

[35:55] invest uh you know several million into Calvin Elite and revitalize system by

[36:00] system. Plus, I can pick them off and stagger them. uh where I feel that Adams

[36:06] is a much bigger number and a much bigger need than than what we have going

[36:10] on at uh Cal. >> I just I look at that 10-year number of

[36:14] I know it says I know it says 12 up here, but we've got total number of 27

[36:19] million. That's 63% of the replacement cost.

[36:24] I think to lose question, wheat is more of a car that is generally in good shape

[36:31] that needs a new transmission and it's worth putting the new transmission in to

[36:35] get another 100,000 >> whereas Adams already has 300,000 miles

[36:40] on it and would you put a brand new transmission into the car that has that

[36:44] kind of transmission? So, um I think yes, Calvin Leap because

[36:50] of that 20-year mark is a bigger ticket, but in a building that is in generally

[36:55] in good shape, but needs to have a number of those systems replaced and we

[37:00] will get another 150,000 miles out of that once we make those investments.

[37:05] Adams, I think, is fundamentally a different question as it begins to

[37:08] approach its centennial trip. At the sake of giving Mike uh PTS, um

[37:17] can we assume that the that a number to build at Baldwin would be close or

[37:25] grossly higher than the 50 million to move Adams over there and share that

[37:29] infrastructure? This was something that went to referendum how long ago?

[37:33] » So that's the level of analysis we had and asked for

[37:37] these prices are just based on square footage. Um, but a thoughtful plan that

[37:44] maybe weds the existing property at Baldwin and grows out an existing

[37:49] facility that already houses 500 to be capable of housing a,000 or,00 there

[37:55] might be some efficiencies that could be found in such a plan. We didn't ask

[37:59] these guys to go to that level of analysis yet.

[38:02] » I hope I did I answer that as as an educator.

[38:04] » That's correct. because there would certainly be some

[38:07] adaptive reuse for the current Adams property

[38:11] » including potential revenue, >> right? Tax revenue.

[38:15] » Yeah, >> I think we do know from the previous

[38:17] study what pushing 20 years ago now that the site at Baldwin is large enough to

[38:22] facilitate a thousand student 5 through 8 middle school which you're right then

[38:27] clears up makes that property available for town use or for any number of things

[38:32] that might offset the cost of a project. Thank you. Sorry, Mike.

[38:36] » I It's not hand am I catching everyone who wanted to

[38:40] speak? >> Go ahead.

[38:42] » I may be restating a a previous question.

[38:46] The question is um in the report in the 1400 pages, is there a place that we

[38:51] could go and I'll just focus on roofs for example where we looked at a 10-year

[38:56] study here, but are some of these roofs due in a year or in year 10? I think

[39:00] that's an important if it's not in the report or maybe it is. Um, is that

[39:05] information there? >> Yes. Yeah. At the end of the document,

[39:08] we have spreadsheets that break it out for every single year. So, you'll be be

[39:12] able to see where we recommend that a roof replacement, for example, happens.

[39:16] » Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. The whole thing is all strung

[39:19] together. So, as we costed things out, it it populated the the big picture. And

[39:24] so, as you and so we we placed each roof in what year we think it should be done.

[39:28] And we tried not to stack everything in the first year, but a lot of things

[39:32] obviously are stacked in the first year because of Adams.

[39:34] » These guys presented by building. They could have presented by year and gone 10

[39:38] years out and you'd see everything that way as well.

[39:40] » Thank you, >> Christine. Thank you.

[39:42] » Um, yes, we kind of talked about it a little bit with Matt's comments about

[39:46] Adams and Baldwin. Um, but generally speaking, the 60 million that's

[39:51] represented here to build Adams is just simply a square footage to build a

[39:56] school number. Is that right? >> Correct. So, it's not including

[39:59] purchasing property, which I assume if we put it at Baldwin, we don't actually

[40:03] have to purchase property. Correct. >> And then we would be able to potentially

[40:08] sell Adams and then gain whatever tax benefit we would get from somebody doing

[40:14] whatever they decide to do with that property. So, we would get a potential

[40:18] sale number that would come to the town and then a tax revenue year-over-year

[40:22] that would be coming to the town. And that is not anything that's represented

[40:28] here at all. So that 60 grand is just 60 million. I wish it were 60 grand is just

[40:33] square footage price for the building. >> Yeah. We we took the the projected

[40:38] enrollment, multiplied that by how many square feet the state was going to

[40:41] allow. We multiplied that by the current cost of construction. Then we

[40:45] accommodated for some swing space, some some different some some things that are

[40:50] probably likely you're going to spend on it. And that's how we

[40:53] » number was high. Is it possible that we would use the existing building as swing

[40:57] space and then be able to save to deduct that revenue out of that 50 million

[41:01] build? >> If we were building on empty property

[41:04] that existed adjacent to Baldwin, then there wouldn't be a swing space cost,

[41:09] right? It's what we did here. It was really complicated here, but we squeezed

[41:14] two buildings onto this space during the construction and then demolition phase.

[41:19] » And was that swing space number like 7 million? What was that?

[41:21] » Yes, it was around 7 million. If we renovated as new

[41:25] » that that was including the renovation. >> So look, we're down to 53.

[41:31] » Just real quick, um, what was the construction cost that you use per

[41:36] square foot? >> A,000.

[41:37] » Thousand. >> Yeah.

[41:38] » I wanted to make sure that got out there.

[41:40] » That is >> unfortunately

[41:43] we've got >> 10 years ago it was

[41:46] » 400 400 4. No,

[41:50] » it's it's gone up substantially in the last 5 years.

[41:53] » You you've you've lived it as well.

[41:59] um uh my naive around all this stuff that's going to come out with this

[42:03] question, but Mike, you were asking a question before

[42:08] you understood it, but but for the rest of us about I think the um to some

[42:15] extent the difference in cost in a new versus a renovate like new.

[42:23] Would some of that be about things like in order to put HVAC appropriate HVAC in

[42:30] this building, we're going to need to do acrobatics

[42:36] conversation. We had a cliff. >> Okay. Thank you. That's why that's why

[42:40] the state kind of gives you that incentive to to do a really deep dive

[42:45] into renovate is new because some renovations you have swing space

[42:49] » and it's really easy to get move the kids out do the construction and move

[42:52] them back in. In some cases it's it's >> shell game and it's makes it complexity

[42:58] is one of the big cost drivers here. >> Right. Okay.

[43:00] » For sure. No doubt. >> To follow up on that. So the the 20-year

[43:05] CIP number was different than the renovate is new. what is included in one

[43:10] that's not in the other. >> We we felt that if we were going to look

[43:16] at um a renovated new number that was going to be a 20-year bond,

[43:21] » but is is it the same? >> Yeah. Is it all the projects in the

[43:25] 20-year CIP that you're just calling renovate as new and then the state gives

[43:29] you money for it or is it like that you're doing it all at once or are there

[43:33] more projects involved in a renovate as new? Could it I didn't

[43:39] » Well, no. I'm just going to ask for you to confirm this.

[43:43] » Usually a cost like that. So, when you renovate a school is new, you have to

[43:48] touch everything, >> right?

[43:49] » Mhm. >> So, there are projects that are not in

[43:51] that 64 that have to be touched. >> Okay.

[43:54] » That may not be 20 years old. And so, you have to make everything 20 years

[43:59] old, even if it's 2 years old. >> Right. Right. Yeah. That's

[44:03] » But if you got reimbursement for it, you're going to lose your reimbursement

[44:05] because Right. So, >> so,

[44:08] » so the roof we just replaced, we'd have to replace it again.

[44:11] » Yes. >> Really, that's a really really important

[44:16] piece of this whole thing is that um it's a special uh for the the state says

[44:22] if you're not maintaining it, we're not paying for it, but we're going to let

[44:25] you renovate it as new if you do everything and we know that your

[44:28] investment is good for the next 20 years. That's the idea. So,

[44:34] » yeah. Go ahead. How much um I'm guessing you considering projected census as far

[44:40] as student populations and the different levels?

[44:44] » Yeah, we look we looked at the 8-year projection for the enrollment for when

[44:48] any whenever we looked at a a a portion of a project that was going to be

[44:52] reimbursed by the state. We would look at the enrollment projections um out

[44:56] eight years and and use that number. And that was the number that we used for the

[45:00] Adam school as a replacement. That's how we That's actually how we sized the new

[45:04] construction and how we how we took the penalty on the uh renovate is new to the

[45:10] existing building. The truth is when you probably do that, you're probably going

[45:13] to just eliminate that the the portable classroom, right? I mean, you're not

[45:18] going to renovate that. So, but in order to to fully understand that that goes

[45:25] next level to, you know, the board writing and educational specification

[45:28] and and it becomes a guideline to to that. These are these are objective um

[45:34] how the state reimbures you and what your money's worth.

[45:39] » Does that make sense? >> So without programmatically are we at a

[45:42] place where that school is becoming more and more obsolete just to do it

[45:46] programmatically? It's not my area of expertise.

[45:49] » Yes. >> Yes.

[45:50] » And so and again it would be really similar to the change that we made here.

[45:54] So there were really good things happening in the old high school despite

[46:00] the facility limitations. Now those challenges have been taken out of the

[46:04] way and and we're the same is happening at Adams. Um really simple things like

[46:10] the 1930 classrooms that have space cooler units in them that you can't run

[46:17] while you're trying to have a conversation with the children. And so

[46:20] we turn the AC off during actual instructional time. so that people can

[46:25] hear each other and we try to cool the spaces down when the room isn't being

[46:29] used or when the students are doing project work. Um, real simple example.

[46:34] Um, but we would be able to do different things with technology, different things

[46:38] with furniture, different things with the front shape of the classroom, size

[46:42] of the classrooms. Yes. And it's what I meant when I said we'd finally be able

[46:46] to think about the instructional impact of doing this work as well as trying to

[46:51] be efficient and spend our money wisely to keep these buildings in the best

[46:54] shape we can. Um I think the high school staff here felt unfettered when they

[46:59] moved into this space in a way that they hadn't expected.

[47:04] We've talked a lot about roofing, HVAC, but there are there any like health and

[47:09] safety priorities that we need to make sure are front focus like things that we

[47:13] need to take care of. Now, >> the indoor air quality of the buildings

[47:18] is addressed directly by the HVAC. Um, and

[47:25] so addressing that is going to address a lot of the

[47:29] the health and safety issues. I I believe um one of the problems with with

[47:34] doing it this way, and I'm I'm trying not to be not objective, but one of the

[47:38] problems here is that you've got the big operating windows and you've got you've

[47:41] got walls that have an R value of zero. So, we're literally like mom and dad

[47:47] used to say, what are you heating the outdoors? You you you really are. Um so,

[47:51] before you really size your HVAC equipment, you want to really secure

[47:54] your envelope. Um and that's something that we wouldn't

[47:58] be doing. Um, so on a day when you've got a high pollen count outside and

[48:03] you've got students sensitive to uh uh um

[48:06] » sensitive to allergies um and it's really hot in the building, you're

[48:10] opening that window and the allergens are all coming in where with a with a

[48:13] secured >> perimeter or secured envelope, you don't

[48:17] have that problem. You we're dealing with the air with filters and

[48:21] pre-cooling and things like that. >> And Cliff, maybe you'll know this, but

[48:23] like there's there's reference made about like old electrical panels, right?

[48:26] Are are we of any concern right now about some of the electrical that's in

[48:30] any of the buildings that we need to replace immediately?

[48:32] » No, we've taken care of most of those uh issues over uh the past probably 10

[48:38] years. If you recall, we did do a couple large upgrades. Adams uh we took care of

[48:42] a bunch of uh panels there. And then we also did work at Jones to ensure uh

[48:48] sections of that building were done and Baldwin uh we did a heavy electrical

[48:53] upgrade there uh to again improve and replace a lot of the panels. So uh

[48:57] overall we're in pretty good shape throughout the district. The electrical

[49:01] um we've kind of bidden off some of the really old stuff uh but again it's still

[49:05] slowing fun down. >> Yeah, your life safety systems are

[49:08] monitored. They're just antiquated. >> Go ahead.

[49:12] » I'd just like to follow up on Bill's question. uh relative to consideration

[49:16] for student population drops which are they're obvious and they're going to

[49:21] continue to drop based on birth rates, right? um are we when are we going to be

[49:25] prepared to talk to the community about why we are or are not considering

[49:29] closing a school and it's an unfair question uh but it's one that I think is

[49:35] in the community right our neighbors around us are closing schools

[49:39] » u we're also seeing population drops I know we haven't seen them to the degree

[49:44] that Madison did uh or maybe some of the other communities did

[49:48] » owing to the success of this board of education and putting a first class

[49:51] education out there Uh, so at what point do we start address that conversation

[49:56] and cut it off at its knees before we get too deep into this?

[50:01] » So, where are we in our I'm trying to remember where we are in our demographic

[50:05] study. >> I want to say

[50:06] » like two or three years in. >> I was going to say two or three years.

[50:09] We had the SLAM group do a demographic study

[50:12] » which actually showed that we're going to start increasing enrollment again.

[50:18] Now, it only now will go out another seven years. Um,

[50:24] » so it's not an unimportant question, but the study that was done for Guilford

[50:30] suggests that we're going to start increasing again. We are not going to

[50:35] reach the level we were at 10 years ago. I'm looking at Paul because he might

[50:40] know the study more have it more in the front of his head, but um but actually

[50:45] showed that we're going to start picking up enrollment again.

[50:50] » Yeah. So the it's available on our website. It is the SLAM demographic

[50:55] study. Um it showed that in years 1 through five, now again we're probably

[51:01] two maybe even three years into it. It had showed that in years 1 through five,

[51:05] the decline was going to slow and then stop and plateau. And in years five

[51:09] through 10, we were going to start increasing enrollment once again. We are

[51:14] tracking behind. We're not slowing as quickly as it said we would. So, it

[51:18] might be worthwhile, especially if we're going to think about a building project,

[51:22] it might be worthwhile to go back and ask them to update that study. But they

[51:27] saw they saw leveling and then increasing birth rates again or

[51:31] enrollment rates. I think the birth rate is already sort of leveled out and

[51:35] they're expecting that we're going to start growing again. We're not seeing

[51:38] that as quickly as the study projected in first couple years. It's really

[51:43] different because the previous study we were were supposed to be declining and

[51:48] we never declined at the rate that the study projected. We always declined

[51:51] slower. Now this study tells us we're going to plateau and start growing and

[51:56] we're not doing that as quickly as the study projected either. I I think we

[52:00] need that data sooner rather than later because there are a number of people who

[52:03] will tell me. >> Absolutely.

[52:05] » 10 years ago we had 3,700 kids in the system. How many that

[52:08] » Sure. I will say this on my street. >> Four houses in the last 18 months have

[52:13] turned over from no kids families to babies, preschool age kids, all four

[52:19] houses. So >> we could reach out and ask them what

[52:23] I think we need to get ahead of that. >> Oh 100%. And and it is a good idea to to

[52:27] to to invest a little bit of time into into an update particularly if it's not

[52:33] exactly tracking the world >> because I think there's a perception in

[52:36] the world that our student population is dropping has dropped significantly over

[52:40] the years. Yes. Why are we going to be spending so much more money and not look

[52:44] at any opportunity to consolidate? Now I think that right the again if we go back

[52:51] to the plan of taking two middle schools and consolidating there right so right I

[52:57] think that there is consolidation in in the buildings there there'd be there'd

[53:01] be bus run efficiencies that could be generated there without necessarily we

[53:06] need to be prepared to answer the question but it might be consolidating

[53:09] at that middle level and not necessarily closing on a four neighborhood schools

[53:15] » no thank No, no, no. It's a it's a really,

[53:19] believe me, I was thinking of >> other other questions. I No doubt um

[53:25] once people have materials in front of them and are um looking at them,

[53:30] there'll be more. Go ahead. a little bit of what John mentioned about the air.

[53:35] » A little bit of what John mentioned about air quality and safety and I mean

[53:39] this Adams HBAC has been a a crisis probably is a right word for an awfully

[53:45] long time. Um and and I kind of want to bring my question back in line. I mean,

[53:50] if we do that $12 million project somehow and and what's the and even if

[53:58] we decided we're going to build a new building today, that's 5 years until

[54:03] » that Adams is no longer good. But if we somehow that's delayed 5 years and and

[54:09] then there's I hope I'm saying this clearly, there's a 10-year window of

[54:12] usage for the HVAC. Is that cost effective? we get a new building 10

[54:17] years from now and we have nine years at least of better air quality in this

[54:25] middle core building. Is that sensible question?

[54:29] » Yes. I think I just kind of feed off that a

[54:34] little bit. Um depending on what the decision

[54:39] uh the decision that's made, right, that would greatly influence what work we do

[54:45] there. But it also determines what level, right? So, if you're told we're

[54:49] going to keep this building for another 50 years,

[54:52] » I'm going to do like we do in most of the the schools and put uh a mid to high

[54:56] range system in there that we know we get good quality, right? That meets all,

[55:01] you know, ashrays and all the other standards that we need. However, if you

[55:05] told me that you only need to get five, maybe seven years out of it, I'd ve that

[55:10] system down, right? We still get good air quality, but it might not be as high

[55:14] a quality or have different features, right? You might have less controls,

[55:19] some less monitoring, things of that nature. Um, because we know we don't

[55:23] need that long term. >> Uh,

[55:25] » yeah. So, you can get an $8 million HC instead of just picking numbers out of

[55:30] thin air. >> But I hear what you're saying, but

[55:32] that's >> and 10 year life, not 20 year life,

[55:36] right? Yes. >> So to see the whole Adams plan like plan

[55:39] B for Adams using it for eight more years the assumption that was made.

[55:45] » Interesting. >> So So it it sounds like

[55:50] what we're seeing in this study is really a study of necessity.

[55:55] It's necessary that we do most of this work and and we and there's a cost

[56:00] associated with it. It can't be ignored no matter how much none of us like this

[56:04] as community members. we're either going to pay now or pay

[56:07] later. But that seems to be a fact. Um that's the general thing.

[56:15] The elephant in the room is Adams in so far as if we decide that

[56:22] the the cost benefit of fixing it and then seeing that we're not going to

[56:28] get more than 10ear benefit out of it versus going new and biting the bullet

[56:32] now and starting to plan. Even if we take five to six years or seven years to

[56:37] get it, seems to me if we decide that relatively soon from a strategic point

[56:43] of view, we just need to start having the conversation with the community so

[56:47] that in fact we don't spend four years talking about this in theory. We've got

[56:52] real numbers. We got real needs and this these things can be made very concrete,

[56:57] no pun intended. Um, and so I'm simply suggesting that the more we can actually

[57:05] make this a realistic proposition, at some point the board is going to be

[57:11] responsible for making a recommendation in our budget as to what we should do.

[57:16] That's I'm just saying to my colleagues, sounds like we in consultation with the

[57:21] other boards ought to come up with some sort of a plan relatively soon. I I want

[57:28] to add something that I think is really important

[57:33] for everybody on the camera to hear. Um and I'm sure the board of slotsman are

[57:38] thinking about it. I'm sure the board of finance is thinking about it. But um we

[57:42] know I hope everyone knows in the community that this is not the only

[57:47] project >> right

[57:48] » that is going to be happening when we when we just had a meeting last week and

[57:53] are having a meeting next week about buying buying property possibly

[57:57] » for use of another for for a a police station project that we don't

[58:02] necessarily have yet. We also have a public works building

[58:06] » that is looking to be moved and replaced. So I think it's very important

[58:11] that it's that no one thinks, hey, Adams needs to be replaced. We need a plan in

[58:16] a year and we need to get this thing built in 5 years. We've got bonding, you

[58:21] know, to consider. I'm not saying we have bonding issues,

[58:25] » but we can't bond everything all in a matter of 5 years or otherwise we're

[58:29] going to spike to like a, you know, 20% or 15% of our capacity, which is not

[58:34] what we want. We want things to roll off to add on. So, I think I wanted to do

[58:39] that as kind of a PSA. Um, because if anybody thinks in the

[58:44] community, oh my god, we're going to do that and they're they must be crazy. And

[58:48] I know that people will post on Facebook tonight or in social media or whatever

[58:52] their their media is. I can't believe this town is going to spend more money.

[58:56] This is part of the whole process of planning. And if it wasn't for Frier

[59:00] doing the study, we wouldn't have the tools, which is exactly what Michael

[59:04] said numerous times to be able to look at this in a realistic way. So, we're

[59:09] cognizant of all the other things that are going on. We just have to plan them

[59:12] and and put them in the the rather I won't say right order cuz I'm sure the

[59:16] police station wants to be done first order,

[59:18] » but I'm sure that, you know, the school system wants theirs done first and I'm

[59:21] sure public works wants theirs done first, but they're going to have to

[59:24] somehow go into a process. So and and perhaps to state the very obvious but uh

[59:30] but always work it >> right. We have the board of selectmen

[59:34] and the board of finance and the standing building committee here not as

[59:38] an FYI. Um right I mean this is this is a this is a community

[59:44] board decision. Right. to your point um uh and on top of your point um these are

[59:51] these are decisions we need to make collaboratively thinking about

[59:56] everything that we as town officials need to think about. Go ahead.

[59:59] » And I think another intangible that's kind of elevating the room for Adams is

[1:00:04] the historic nature of the building. And yes, it's the downside because the HBAC

[1:00:08] is difficult to put in and all that, but I know there are people in the community

[1:00:11] that don't want to see that building just raised and replaced. And so that

[1:00:15] will be part of the conversation and and on both sides of the fence. I

[1:00:21] » agree. Mike Mike, thank you for bringing up the

[1:00:24] town side. Uh I didn't want to rain on any place parade here tonight. Um but

[1:00:28] you're right. And to Mike's point, we've basically been sitting on a new public

[1:00:33] works facility for a few years. We purchased a piece of property up there

[1:00:37] with the express intent of moving it up there. We did some preliminary site

[1:00:41] work. We did some preliminary design work. uh and we've been sitting on it

[1:00:46] because of the very fact that in 2030 we're going to see a significant decline

[1:00:51] in our debt service payments. Yep. >> Which are for

[1:00:55] » disability. Okay. So, uh we we have gotten into the queue uh ostensively uh

[1:01:01] at least one project on the town side and now there's another potential

[1:01:05] project with the police department. So I think it is going to take a little bit

[1:01:08] of work, a lot of work and we've demonstrated that the ability to do that

[1:01:12] in the past between the boards to figure out how we do this collectively.

[1:01:15] » Mhm. >> Yep.

[1:01:18] » Um we had kind of a a 1h hour meeting here in mind. Um, but I don't want and

[1:01:26] and I and I'm saying that out loud just to be respectful of people's time, but I

[1:01:30] certainly don't want to cut off discussion or questions if if there are

[1:01:33] people who still have them that haven't had a chance.

[1:01:36] » The only thing I'll add to what Dick was just saying is um and in order to have

[1:01:39] this community conversation, we do need to understand what the cost to add to

[1:01:44] Baldwin will be. >> That is definitely,

[1:01:48] you know, an important piece to this. Well, I I I mean, I've heard a couple of

[1:01:54] action items, some of them easier than others. Um, one is um uh Board of Ed

[1:02:01] Guilford public schools um uh considering a a demographic kind of an

[1:02:08] update to our demographic study that that's going to be important information

[1:02:11] to inform. Um uh that has right that has come up. If if one of the things we need

[1:02:17] to think about is is is Baldwin um a site where we might in a

[1:02:24] conversation around all these things think about um adding we'll have to to

[1:02:29] to determine um how to how to make that assessment. We could have a conversation

[1:02:35] about how to try to find more specific numbers, but it gets complicated by how

[1:02:43] far into a process do we want to start going. do. I don't think we're ready to

[1:02:47] start writing EDS specs, which would be a requirement to start to get real

[1:02:52] numbers, but we might be able to refine the very broad numbers for tonight more

[1:02:57] fully and and see if that helps as the town has to make thoughtful, holistic

[1:03:03] priority decisions overall. Um, we're very aware of the fact that this is only

[1:03:09] one side of of a a very multifaceted conversation.

[1:03:14] One question, Mike. How much work was done to to develop estimates for moving

[1:03:19] for expanding Baldwin 15 years ago or whatever that was?

[1:03:25] » Did didn't we have didn't were we looking at developing Baldwin?

[1:03:29] » Yes. So, how much how much state work was done, engineering work, or is there

[1:03:33] is there anything that we have on >> there? There was there was a study done

[1:03:38] by I think it was they don't exist anymore

[1:03:42] but I think Fletcher Thompson. >> Yeah, there's a fairly extensive plan.

[1:03:45] They're 20 years old. They probably have it somewhere in a buried file that

[1:03:49] probably talks about we have we have we have those but again

[1:03:54] they're 20 years old and we'd want to look at the plan itself. I think at a

[1:03:59] very high level it is a really thoughtful and elegant plan to to put

[1:04:03] two facilities on one site. There's a lot that argues for a 5'8 middle school.

[1:04:08] I don't think we need to be maintaining two separate middle schools. I think

[1:04:12] there's a lot conceptually that is very good, but it's 20 years

[1:04:17] old. We want to take a look at it and be really thoughtful about it.

[1:04:20] » But I think even a 20-year-old plan should have been able to say, "Okay, we

[1:04:24] can accommodate septic, we can accommodate the playing fields, we can

[1:04:27] accommodate layout." >> I think it tells us we have the space

[1:04:30] for sure. >> A good document to start.

[1:04:32] The only thing I would caution and this is something the board of ed or Dr. Dr.

[1:04:37] Freeman would have to do is look at those plans and look at the concepts and

[1:04:40] say, "All right, is this still going to meet

[1:04:43] » Yes. >> You know, for example, 20 years ago, you

[1:04:46] may not you probably didn't have the technology and the robotics or whatever

[1:04:49] other curriculum that you would want to implement now." So, you'd have to look

[1:04:52] at it and kind of say, "Oh, this wasn't in there. Oh, and we don't need this

[1:04:55] anymore." But other than that, I think I think footprint accessibility and

[1:05:00] services. Yes. I think it answers the fact that I think it answers that it's

[1:05:04] feasible. Y >> so that's another action item then to to

[1:05:07] to take a look at at at those plans and see what we can learn from them

[1:05:12] » um in a way that helps inform thinking that way

[1:05:16] » and would there then be projects at Baldwin that you'd want to put off

[1:05:19] because >> Yep.

[1:05:20] » new construction to

[1:05:24] that would factor into the timeline. >> I'm I'm sure it's a very complicated

[1:05:28] web. I'm just trying to identify because I any action steps that we can you know

[1:05:34] uh this these decisions are going to be made by by kind of um identifying the

[1:05:40] the small steps first. So we've got a couple um I imagine people around this

[1:05:46] table will think of these on the car ride home or tomorrow or sometime this

[1:05:50] weekend. And I um >> or when you get 1400 pages.

[1:05:56] » And I I I do want um uh there may be a better approach to this, but at least in

[1:06:02] the meantime, um uh I as board of ed chair uh with Dr.

[1:06:09] Freeman and Cliff. I mean, we can receive questions, um, suggestions,

[1:06:16] uh, proposed other additional action items that could help this group really

[1:06:21] think thoughtfully about various options.

[1:06:26] » If there's if there's a lesson to be learned from what we've been through

[1:06:29] with the police department situation is we don't have any plans to spend any

[1:06:34] money right now. All we're talking about is what are the needs over the long

[1:06:40] term. >> We got caught with a $35 million police

[1:06:44] department estimate, right? And that unfortunately

[1:06:49] uh coalesed with the opportunity to purchase the uh the property on on that

[1:06:54] space. So to keep it separate and the message is we don't have any definitive

[1:06:59] plans to spend any money at this point. >> Trying to be thoughtful and formal

[1:07:05] planning. and and and and have the long game in in

[1:07:09] » Absolutely. >> Any um any last questions while we're

[1:07:14] all >> Katie, if I may, there's just a couple

[1:07:18] things I want. >> Absolutely. Go ahead.

[1:07:20] » One, I want to thank Frier for all the work that they put in, the time that you

[1:07:23] put into helping us to have this conversation. And two, I do want to note

[1:07:27] and I want to thank Cliff Gernham. Um we have been investing thoughtfully in

[1:07:31] these buildings for the last 15 to 20 years now. We know that this is a big

[1:07:36] number. I also know that this number is a lot smaller because of the work that

[1:07:40] we've been doing consistently, regularly, and thoughtfully. We started

[1:07:44] with a 10-year study. We had a 10-year study 12 years ago that we worked from

[1:07:49] in very much the same way. Um, and and I know that that number could be a lot

[1:07:54] bigger if it weren't for the thoughtful work and planning that has gone in to

[1:07:58] date. We're in good shape because of the work that we've done this board and our

[1:08:03] facilities office. And I just want to acknowledge all of that work as we're

[1:08:07] talking about really thoughtful big decisions for the town moving forward.

[1:08:11] » Great. >> Um, I want to thank uh everyone for

[1:08:15] joining us for uh the viewing public. Um, you may also certainly uh uh address

[1:08:22] questions as you always may. Um, our our email addresses are are all online. Um,

[1:08:31] and I think this is obviously going to be the beginning of a lot of

[1:08:34] conversations um, moving forward. Um,

[1:08:39] last last chance last chance. Again, thank you so much

[1:08:44] for being here. Thank you for answering all of our questions. Um, I am going to

[1:08:50] request a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. All in favor or I. All right.

[1:08:56] Thank you everyone. Good night.

Board of Education Facility Assessment Meeting 9/9/26

Transcript