[0:13] And it was that all of you are elected officials who work for your communities. You don't work for the school district. You don't work for the superintendent or any of the other administrators. You work for us. We elect you to be here to represent the needs of our communities. And I think that sometimes.

[0:39] somewhat because of things that happen in this room, sometimes things that happen at like

[0:44] the SBA trainings, that you can be convinced that you're all supposed to work as one unit

[0:51] and always have to be at a consensus or always speaking with one voice and I just want you

[0:58] to know that that's actually not true, that's not how democracy works, you actually work

[1:01] for your communities and you represent your communities and you can actually have opinions about

[1:10] these processes that do not necessarily agree with the majority of what this board says.

[1:14] I just want that reminder, if it's helpful for any of you, it was helpful for me.

[1:18] I just wanted to pass that on.

[1:23] I've heard lots of things, well, I've read things in writing and I've heard things spoken

[1:28] by this board saying that this is the beginning of a process that we are not closing schools

[1:36] consolidating schools that we are at the beginning of this path that there's a lot of

[1:40] time we're going to engage with community. But the reason that people like me keep coming here

[1:46] and talking to you is because we're not seeing any alternatives. We're not seeing those community

[1:51] engagement opportunities. We're not seeing other plans being talked about this RFP that you have,

[1:57] that you're going to potentially approve and send out to people tonight, has one little sentence

[2:03] about the potential, the people who will be accepted to perform that process to look at,

[2:11] I believe the word is like reasonable alternatives.

[2:15] It's just really, it's just really two words, but it seems to me that this board is saying,

[2:21] we have this consolidation plan, and we have this status quo.

[2:24] I haven't heard anything about anything else.

[2:27] Last time when I came, I shared all sorts of ideas about magnet schools, community schools, community partnerships.

[2:34] These are actually not fringe ideas.

[2:36] These are things that really creative school districts are doing around the country to solve budget crises.

[2:44] But I don't hear this board looking into any of those things.

[2:47] All I hear this board doing is looking into closures and consolidations.

[2:51] And that's the same thing that's been going on for multiple generations of the people who have sat in your seats.

[2:56] One of those was me years ago.

[3:00] I do not believe this community wants this.

[3:03] I think you're going down the wrong path.

[3:05] I think any sort of bond or process that is tied to multiple closures is going to be voted down.

[3:13] I think you need to think better of this now and do a better visioning transformation process.

[3:20] there are other options on the table and I'm really confused and I have been really confused

[3:25] for years why this board does not want to look at any of those things.

[3:30] If you ask people do you want lower taxes, they will almost always say yes.

[3:34] If you ask people do you want lower taxes because we're going to close your community school?

[3:40] In my experience, the answer is almost always been no.

[3:43] This is a cost benefit analysis that I do not believe you are doing properly and I really

[3:48] hope that some of you maybe are thinking something in your mind and it may make you speak up

[3:55] and try to shift course here very very soon. Thank you. Thank you Peter. Okay Michelle.

[4:08] My name's

[4:08] Michelle Baker. I'm from Waterbury. I was formerly on that side of the table as the director

[4:14] of finance and operations for many years. I stand before you tonight to address the agenda item

[4:21] of the request for proposal for yet another feasibility study.

[4:25] Our district has poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into previous feasibility studies

[4:30] over recent years with very little tangible return on the end of that investment.

[4:36] Before we commit more taxpayer dollars to another costly endeavor, I believe the board

[4:43] and administration should take some more preliminary steps.

[4:47] I think rather than jumping into a study, perhaps you could take these immediate actions.

[4:54] One of them was gauge community sentiment.

[4:58] Can we conduct a comprehensive survey to gather public feedback on the proposed consolidated

[5:04] school location, perform some due diligence, investigate baseline site feasibility,

[5:15] specifically

[5:16] requirements before hiring outside consultants to do a more detailed study, provide transparent

[5:24] enrollment projections. I haven't seen, and I would like to see, and perhaps they're

[5:30] available, and I just haven't found them, updated enrollment data, and clearly just

[5:35] find why constructing a new facility is superior to optimizing our existing school buildings.

[5:41] Also, establish a long pre-K through 12 master plan, clarify how this proposal aligns with

[5:50] the district-wide vision and explain how hard-wood union middle school high school fits

[5:55] into the funding priorities given the low likelihood of voters approving both a renovation

[6:00] and a new school construction.

[6:03] In short, fiscal responsibility, detailed specific budget adjustments to handle new debt service

[6:09] given that our district consistently operates near the exespinning threshold, had the I feel

[6:16] personally that had hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on the past studies, been directed

[6:22] towards physical building and site improvements, our schools would be in a far better state

[6:27] today regarding deferred maintenance. If we want to break this cycle of costly studies, we must

[6:33] commit to long-term strategic planning that dictates our short-term actions rather than funding

[6:38] projects in search of a plan. I urge this board to exercise true fiscal stewardship, prioritize, transparent, low cost, internal research and community engagement that answers these critical questions before asking taxpayers to fund yet another study. Thank you.

[6:58] Thank you Michelle. We are talking in enrollment numbers tonight. Just so you know.

[7:15] Yeah, I'll check it out.

[7:24] Is there anyone in Zoom who would like to make a comment?

[7:33] Okay, thank you. We appreciate you coming and speaking to us.

[7:41] Looking for a motion to approve the agenda.

[7:48] Emily, do we have a second?

[7:50] Second, all those in favor say aye.

[7:55] Okay, first item on the agenda is our potential new board member from Watesfield. Her name is Alexina Kaffer. She's in Zoom. Can you either promote her?

[8:07] She's going there.

[8:08] Oh good.

[8:10] She should be able to see her.

[8:12] Okay.

[8:15] Yep.

[8:16] So, Alexina sent us a resume and a letter of interest to join the board.

[8:23] We are super grateful.

[8:24] She had an endorsement both from JB and from Bobby, the spot she's taking and she's here tonight

[8:31] to talk to us.

[8:32] She's out of town right now.

[8:33] So, if we're appointing her, she will get sworn tomorrow or when she's back

[8:39] down. So how are you Alexina? I actually have everyone nice to be here with you. Star

[8:46] there's a little background noise. I'm on a work trip right now. It's weird. That's

[8:51] okay. We can sort of hear you and something's going on here technically, hold on

[8:55] just one second. Like it's just coming on a piss computer. It's there. Okay. Is it on my

[9:05] outside? Nope, there you go now. Okay. So welcome and we really appreciate you stepping up to be

[9:13] willing to jump in in the middle of it all. That's we're grateful for that. And you can address

[9:19] the board if you'd like everyone is here and can see you just go ahead. Hi, everyone, I think you

[9:26] received my letter interest in my resume so I won't read that to you, but my name's Alex and a

[9:31] there. I live in Wayfield with my three sons who are in preschool, fourth grade and seventh grade

[9:38] and that definitely is a huge impetus for me wanting to join the board. I've worked for nearly

[9:43] two decades at the intersection of public health education and food policy and I'm hopeful

[9:48] that experience will help the board in our community and this next chapter. I'm happy to answer

[9:56] any questions about me and my experience and interests that you might have.

[10:14] You're background in food policy. Do you have any thoughts on the current food that we serve at our schools?

[10:21] Yeah, I think we're really fortunate to partner with local farmers and producers and have the food that we have.

[10:28] I mean, just having universal school meals is fantastic.

[10:33] A lot of research shows that food at school, even though it gets a bad rap, is healthier than a lot of meals.

[10:38] kids eat at home and it's a vital part of the school day. So really happy that we're able to

[10:44] commit to that for our kids and based on my experience of seeing a lot of different

[10:48] catheterias. I've worked predominantly in the York City, the nation's largest school district,

[10:54] but also in Tennessee, Arkansas, California, DC, New Jersey, Florida. And I can say that

[11:00] we filled and the Harvard Unified School District is really fortunate to have the meals that they have.

[11:06] and the engagement, both from the kids and from the cooks that work with our for our students.

[11:15] I have ideas that we can always do different things if wanted.

[11:19] We work the organization that I work for called Wellness and the Schools works a lot with food education with kids in tandem, culinary education with school cooks to increase crash cooking.

[11:29] So those things together, we find really makes a difference in both participation and the nutritional value of school meals so happy to weigh in, but I think just off the bat, I'll say that I think we're doing a great job.

[11:44] Thank you. That may come up. You never know.

[11:46] I hope so.

[11:47] Make in. Do you have a question?

[11:50] I really have a statement, I guess I wanted to make them how it's going to kind of respond to it.

[11:55] I just wanted to offer my endorsement.

[11:56] I've had the chance to

[12:00] delete the early setting her

[12:06] towards to your own horn.

[12:07] I just went to point out that Alexei does run an advocacy arm for a nonprofit.

[12:12] She really understands advocacy beyond just food security and thinking about stay level in a national level advocacy.

[12:19] She started a small business.

[12:20] Uh, so she has an entrepreneurial spirit, you know, for the same mention, all while having

[12:25] a young family in the valley.

[12:27] So I just wanted to stand up and, and, uh, endorse her and, uh, really excited about her

[12:32] interest in the cork doll of you to, uh, to support her.

[12:35] Thanks, Mika.

[12:37] Pam,

[12:40] I really appreciate you putting your, um, name in the ring here for the seat.

[12:44] And I was curious about your appetite to be out of wellness committee in addition to serving

[12:48] on the school board.

[12:50] I'd love to.

[12:54] Okay.

[12:55] Good. You're volunteering and you're not even on the board. That's a great.

[13:00] Any other questions, anybody? Comments. First Charlotte, then Emily.

[13:08] What like new perspective

[13:09] do you hope to bring to the school board into our district? You've worked in a lot of different

[13:13] places. What kind of insight do you think you can bring to the board in this sense? That's a great

[13:20] question. I'm happy to provide any insight, but first I kind of like to get a lay of the land

[13:25] learn from others that what's happened to start before just kind of inserting myself, but I can

[13:31] say that I've seen a lot of different educational models, including obviously the food part,

[13:36] but more so different models for school that I think could be valuable from urban settings,

[13:42] so rural settings and everything in between. And I am excited to share that perspective as it fits.

[13:56] I, so you're potentially joining the board at a, I'll be one of the most difficult times to join a board.

[14:03] So I'm just curious if you have been able to take the time to just kind of familiarize yourself with, you know, any of our like past meetings and ideas to sort of some of the obstacles that we're all getting ready to face.

[14:16] And I'm sure, you know, I felt even a little intimidated in my position, listening to public comment.

[14:24] There's a lot that's that is about to happen and so just just curious to how you feel about getting into the board during what could be a very contentious period of time with the community.

[14:37] That's a great question and I will say I have familiarized myself a little bit just as a parent

[14:43] and then as someone who's interested in joining the board and I've had a lot of conversations

[14:47] with other parents who share similar concerns and also different concerns.

[14:51] I think I still come to the board with an open mind.

[14:54] I don't have a clear cut answer right now in my own opinion.

[15:00] And I feel, I care deeply so it is hard to hear any type of, you know, discontent, but I think it's impossible to not have people who, people are going to be disappointed. One situation, one outcome or another, and I think a lot of my work in through policy, in particular the last few years, has positioned me pretty well for people being disappointed, unfortunately.

[15:24] And I can sit with that and I'm not always perfect but I try really, really hard to listen to people without reacting right away and sharing what I can, you know, opinions or solutions, but just listening.

[15:39] I think it's a big part of our way forward too.

[15:46] Definitely. Communication seems to be the name of the game right now.

[15:50] I also have three kids for a very different ages and are also often unhappy with me at all.

[15:56] I'm just kidding.

[15:58] So, you know, I'm used to people not getting what they want.

[16:01] All boys.

[16:02] All boys.

[16:04] All boys.

[16:05] Rob has a lot of boys too.

[16:08] Okay.

[16:11] Any more questions or comments for Alexina?

[16:14] Okay.

[16:14] So I did do diligence and I called Brian Schupe who is the chair of the way it's field select board. He does not know Alexina, but when I said that the recommendations came from Bobby who was was giving somewhat reluctantly giving up her seat and from JB who is friendly with her that they really that felt good and he did he they don't have a meeting until next week, but he was going he yesterday emailed their their group their the select board and told them and

[16:44] If they were going to get back with anything, you know, like her police records or anything,

[16:49] kidding, totally kidding.

[16:50] That he would have done that by now.

[16:53] So far hearing anything from them, which I don't think we will.

[16:57] In that, is there any further discussion?

[17:00] Because if not, we could make a motion right now.

[17:03] Discussion?

[17:07] I moved to nominate her to the position to take over Bobby's back.

[17:12] Second from JB, all those in favor say aye.

[17:15] Aye.

[17:16] Awesome. Any obsessions or no votes?

[17:21] Okay. So the motion to, for the open seat and weights field,

[17:25] the two year unexpired seat, which the appointment

[17:28] until town meeting of next year, 27,

[17:32] when hopefully you will run from that seat.

[17:36] You won't run screening. One of those.

[17:38] All right. So if you're welcome to sit and listen to this meeting,

[17:43] and I recommend that you do, because there's going to be a lot of good

[17:45] stuff in here or a lot of interesting stuff. But we will when you get back to town, we will

[17:52] have you go get sworn in at your town office. Wonderful. Thanks everyone. Thank you. We're really

[17:58] psyched. Okay. All right. Moving on. Moving on to board reports. Everyone saw that. Our report. We don't

[18:09] to talk about its students, what do you

[18:36] got?

[18:42] Yeah.

[18:43] Okay.

[18:43] Next slide.

[18:46] And we have another parking lot update.

[18:48] Continue from last meeting.

[18:51] Seniors get to paint their parking spots this year.

[18:55] So the senior class will be basically like a lottery.

[19:00] You'll get to choose your spot.

[19:02] And there will be a requirement like a payment

[19:06] and to fundraise for the senior class. Anywhere from I think like $5 to $50, I'm not quite sure

[19:16] it's still in the works, but students will get to paint their parking spot and next year the

[19:23] rising seniors will get to paint theirs. So the parking lot will be a lot more colorful.

[19:30] An admin maybe you can paint your parking spot. If you really want to, wouldn't that be fun?

[19:38] Sports are doing good. We don't have a slide for that. We don't have greedy here taking photos

[19:45] but sports are doing good volleyball in the gym right now. Emma has some stuff about early

[19:54] college. Yes, so I am at Norwich this year for early college as well as I think four or five

[20:05] students that go to Norwich, and then several students going to CCV. It's going really

[20:12] well, we are definitely getting in the swing of things starting with our first exams. I

[20:18] have my first exam on Friday. So yeah, it's pretty awesome.

[20:50] I always have to take questions for the

[20:52] first meeting. I don't have a written report, but I've had a lot of questions from board members and

[20:58] about enrollment. So the state's marker and our marker is October 1st. That's the day we look.

[21:04] That's the day we take kind of a snapshot. They call it a snapshot. And then we run many reports

[21:11] throughout October and give the board a pretty comprehensive review. So I always start with the

[21:16] caveat if I'm giving something in early September that this is still very preliminary.

[21:26] It's

[21:27] between now and then October 1st snapshot, but that's for yearly comparisons, just your apples

[21:32] to apples comparisons we use October 1st, but going into a lot of discussions, I thought

[21:36] it was important to share some of this information. So I provided an email to the board, but I

[21:44] went through some of the slides to give some perspective. So we were starting the year with 37 students

[21:51] fewer than we had at the end of the 2025-2026 school year. And again, these are preliminary.

[22:00] There's a couple of different numbers I'll use, but I'm just giving that as a year over

[22:05] your comparison. If you're comparing it to what we had on our October 1st snapshot last year,

[22:09] it's 29 students. Lisa is also working on some modeling. She's going to give you a part one to night

[22:16] And then a more in-depth part two at the next meeting because it's the board knows from

[22:24] work that those number counts greatly impact our funding capacity.

[22:30] So, a drop of 29 already has leethen aye. Concerned.

[22:38] What percentage is that? 2.3. Thank you.

[22:43] So district wide, this is just going back. We went back through, I went back through some reports. We have online.

[22:50] So Michelle referenced some reports and if you go to our website and you can just go to the little Google search bar and click and roll and search for enrollment and we'll bring up our past

[23:02] enrollment reports as well as the projections that we have completed by the

[23:07] New England Study Council every year. But looking back from roughly the

[23:13] 2016-2017 year to now, we were down about 178 students. So that's also another

[23:21] just informational piece that's about a 10% decline. You can see we had a bump

[23:27] during COVID just because of our location in Vermont, our location within Vermont.

[23:34] A lot of people moved here that kind of stemmed that tide and in Lisa and I started in the

[23:39] 2022, 2022, 2023 school year. We enjoyed a couple of years of relative stability until we started

[23:45] seeing a more decline last year. These are two slides that Lisa shared last year. This is just

[23:55] a reminder when people ask, you know, the reason, while there are some nuances, I would

[24:01] say the general reasoning is it mirrors national trends.

[24:05] It mirrors birth rate, the client of birth rate.

[24:08] This is going back, this is a long view going back to 1980.

[24:14] The solid green line is Vermont, the light green dotted line is the U.S. numbers, and we

[24:22] seen a steady decline Vermont ranks in the in the very bottom tier. I think I think we're

[24:29] number 50 if I'm correct or somewhere close to the bottom. This is just another view of this

[24:37] from a data map of where Vermont stands and this is one that I can't see my notes. I can't remember

[24:50] exactly where we got this front, but it was a national governmental organization, where

[24:56] Vermont has the lowest, and if you see the little lowest pointing to Vermont, we have the

[25:00] lowest birth rate in the country.

[25:05] This is just a snapshot of building snapshot from the end of the year to now, and again,

[25:11] that people, everything seems to be complicated, that we have from our funding formula,

[25:18] that how we measure enrollment, we've switched back and forth between our K to 12 enrollment

[25:24] and then our pre-K numbers.

[25:26] The reason we try to generally use the K to 12 numbers is because our pre-K students are

[25:33] only here a portion of the week, and we also receive some students who come from another school

[25:39] district because of the way Act 166 works.

[25:43] You can live someplace else and have your child in one of our buildings so there's capacity.

[25:46] but this is just a comparison of where building stand from last year and what has been real

[25:54] striking this year. I spent some time talking to all the principals, but what has really been

[25:59] striking in the last couple of years is the decline at Whitesfield. I think everyone knows I'm a

[26:06] member of the Ann River Valley Rotary Club. I had breakfast this morning. I had breakfast with Carol

[26:10] Oxford, you know, a long time principle. She retired in 2004. She was peppering me with questions,

[26:16] very good questions. And when I told her that wait's field had a hundred and four students

[26:21] and told her the size of her kindergarten class. She said, Mike, she said, now it's been

[26:26] a couple of years, so don't quote me exactly. But she said, when I was a teacher at wait's

[26:30] field, we had around 180 students to give you some perspective there. When I was talking

[26:36] And the KIS, you said during COVID, there was a period where they were up to close the 170.

[26:40] So we've seen a pretty precipice drop.

[26:43] Number of buildings, just because of the way the numbers are, Harwood has slightly increased

[26:50] although we did see it decline and part of the reason for our decline of 10 of going into

[26:55] their senior year is we heard from Emma.

[26:59] We only get partial credit for funding for college, for early college students.

[27:05] So that's partly what counts there.

[27:12] So this is what we're looking like in the valley from last year.

[27:15] This year we've declined so we're at about 412.

[27:19] I know JB's committee has talked about potentially looking at the school of capacity of 450.

[27:25] That's certainly within the range of what the board is looking at that.

[27:30] But that number will be certainly in the range of what you'd be looking at.

[27:34] And I've also received some questions and I want to make sure that we're looking at both the valley.

[27:38] and Cindy reminded us to talk about Waterberry and Ducksberry.

[27:42] So that's the valley to give you a perspective on Brookside.

[27:47] Now this includes pre-K because I wanted this show kind of a fully loaded number.

[27:53] It's not significantly different.

[27:55] You'd reduce by roughly 30 students.

[27:58] The last, if you're just looking at K to 12.

[28:01] But in the 2016, 2017 year, that your Brook had 439 students.

[28:06] we were talking about this with our small administrative team, John Mandi, Lisa and I were talking

[28:12] in China and we're talking today and Mandi pointed this out because she was a special education teacher

[28:18] at Bachelor Brook at this time. So when you're looking at size of buildings we had 439 in

[28:25] an elementary school 10 years ago and that buildings down by roughly 100 students since then.

[28:34] So that's again, it's the preliminary snapshot.

[28:37] We usually don't provide a more detailed snapshot in September,

[28:41] but I wanted to give some numbers just because there's been a lot of questions.

[28:44] So have it to take any comments or questions on this or anything else in within my realm?

[28:52] You said it was 37 fewer.

[28:54] What's the total number of enrolled students in?

[28:55] It's like 1750.

[28:58] The four.

[28:59] Total.

[29:01] Well, it depends on, again, it depends on what you're looking at.

[29:04] So as of today, if I take a look at K-12, that number K-12 is 1561, if I look at loaded with students, our pre-K students, that number is 1670.

[29:23] for the twenty-six twenty-seven year for the twenty-six twenty-seven year and again that won't be the official number week we use that snapshot will be

[29:31] in a couple of weeks last year we were fifteen ninety-eight k-12 and when you factor in our pre-case students not just our pre-case students who are in our buildings it can include

[29:42] ones that are funded through x166, that number last year was 1722, so you're probably thinking

[29:49] about that number from previous years.

[29:56] Like everything else we would say with our system, it's complicated.

[30:01] Thank you, Mike. Those are some pretty scary numbers. It's really powerful to see that decline.

[30:12] That concretely, do you have any information anecdotal or otherwise on where, like the majority of those students are going?

[30:23] Like it's in families moving out of Valley or Vermont or other schools?

[30:28] I think when if you take a look at the enrollment spreadsheets, we last year, we had a senior class of 116,

[30:43] and this year we have a kindergarten class of 97.

[30:50] So it's it's it's it's birthright. I would say yes there's other factors where there's there's some families I know have moved.

[30:58] Other for various reasons, but I would say the general trends are the cloning birth rate.

[31:05] Going back to going back to that slide that we looked at, that's my spreadsheet.

[31:13] Let me go back to the presentation.

[31:17] I usually have my desk.

[31:18] I use multiple screens and it makes it so much easier.

[31:24] Could I show a slide on this?

[31:27] Sure, just give me one second.

[31:29] And then I'll go off.

[31:31] But when you look at this slide,

[31:35] I think this is the slide that tells the,

[31:39] tells part of the story.

[31:41] And the fact, you know,

[31:42] the multiple reasons with Vermont,

[31:44] where we're all state.

[31:45] We don't have a lot of housing.

[31:47] We don't have a lot of commercial industry

[31:50] for a lot of the reasons people love living here.

[31:52] It's one of the reasons why it's making it more challenging.

[31:55] You know, we have a lot of part-time residents, particularly in the Valley, who have homes and don't have children.

[32:03] You have people in their late 50s like me, who move here, who children are in their late 20s.

[32:09] You don't have bring children. There's just a lot variety of reasons.

[32:14] And it's a trend that we're seeing.

[32:20] stop sharing so you can jump in Caitlin.

[32:29] Well Caitlin's getting her

[32:29] slide up I just wanted to say too like I know like my son's class he has

[32:34] three new kids in a class so these numbers are a decline even with students

[32:38] coming in so like this isn't I think we hear from the community a lot like

[32:42] well sure but people could be moving in people could come in and like no we're

[32:46] having this decline and we're having people moving like it's it's a both and you

[32:51] I appreciate public comment.

[32:53] I appreciate citizens who want to look at creatively,

[32:57] and I'd love to have conversations with people

[32:58] who have really good concrete solutions

[33:00] because even with a magnet school,

[33:04] we are still Vermont.

[33:07] The legislature's funding system

[33:08] doesn't account for creativity.

[33:11] Here's your students.

[33:13] Here's who's enrolled.

[33:14] Here's the weighted amount.

[33:16] Here's your CLA.

[33:18] Here's everything together.

[33:20] and you produce your numbers and that's the numbers we have to operate.

[33:25] We don't have the ability to create revenue as a public school system.

[33:31] We also don't have the ability to turn students away with higher needs and we're also seeing

[33:35] students with higher needs for ready reasons.

[33:41] So there's similar to what Dr. Mike was showing over all population in the U.S. is declining

[33:46] in migration is the reason the only reason that we're maintaining population in the U.S.

[33:54] population is declining Vermont. It's been declining since 2022 and then births in Vermont.

[34:01] I think the trip on the right is really what you want to look at, but it's just for your

[34:05] baby's being born and it's just not enough migration. That's more bitter than the slides,

[34:09] I have, that's a very striking slide.

[34:12] Listen.

[34:15] Excuse me.

[34:16] Excuse me.

[34:17] Just looking for some, wow.

[34:18] Yeah, Ben.

[34:19] Nice.

[34:19] Right, sorry.

[34:21] Go ahead.

[34:23] So looking at this data and then also just hearing like specifically looking at the decline in weights field,

[34:32] which is a startling number.

[34:33] I mean, back when my daughter, my oldest daughter was in weights field.

[34:37] That's an entire class.

[34:38] That's an entire classroom of students.

[34:40] that is no longer there. And as hard as it is for the community to hear us talking about making

[34:47] changes with buildings, whatever that ends up being, it's the reality that we're faced with.

[34:53] We have to figure out how to do it the fact that there are less children every year coming into

[34:58] our schools. And while it may seem inconsequential to hear that across seven schools,

[35:05] But there's 37 less kids, but again, that's a big number, that's three classrooms, or two classrooms at least of students.

[35:17] We are going to get to the point where we are not filling all of our schools.

[35:22] Is it going to happen in the next five years?

[35:24] No. It's going to happen in the next 25? Probably.

[35:27] Like, anyway.

[35:29] And the other piece I would share just from from discussion, John, John, Mandy, myself, or just because the nature of our jobs are regularly in buildings.

[35:40] And we are just hearing from staff increasingly as I know the board is that it is getting harder and we've made significant reductions over the past couple of years.

[35:50] and we have buildings that have very scant staff.

[35:55] We have full-time principles, and those principles any time you go into a building, you'll see

[35:59] a principle who's filling in for a paraprofessional who's out or in the cafeteria or helping

[36:06] do their traditional jobs of helping improve instruction, but the margins are getting so thin

[36:16] it gets becoming increasingly challenging, John, John just talked about this today in relation

[36:23] to special education.

[36:27] It's talking to a principal today who found time to talk to me when she was cleaning the

[36:33] kid's Chromebooks that didn't get cleaned over the summer.

[36:37] So that was the time that we found to talk today.

[36:40] Yeah, I was talking to Mike today.

[36:41] You know, I think when we, my lens into what's happening, might be a little different than some other people's, and while I think we have incredible staff all the way through our district, the impacts of some of the choices that we've been forced to make are impacting different groups of students differently.

[37:06] And the majority of our students are doing great, and then across all areas, but the students

[37:14] who's needs require some extra stuff, some of our most vulnerable students for wide variety

[37:21] of reasons, they're the ones who might be impacted the most, and also the least likely to

[37:29] able to.

[37:30] We share their stories or even fully understand the ramifications of these things. And so it was something that I brought up today with Mike. And I just, you know, I'm happy to talk more about that, you know, in different times. But I did think that was a important variable to bring to this conversation as well.

[37:53] Okay, like we've talked briefly about this in the past couple of months last year, even.

[38:00] But Brookside went down from four classrooms to three for their grade level.

[38:04] Was that because of numbers of students declining? Or did we increase numbers of students in classes

[38:09] above both? Both. The population declined to the point where we could reduce

[38:16] but that also increased class size.

[38:22] I think that should be made clearly that we have already been reducing, you know, the fact

[38:27] that we've reduced the classes and inside from four to three for a great make and go ahead.

[38:36] I see you have your hand up your virtual hand.

[38:46] Yeah, here we go.

[38:48] Okay.

[38:48] Both are not too loud and it could be weird.

[38:51] First of all, thank you for this data, Mike, and I look forward to diving into it and I

[38:55] just one of the comment on a few things here.

[39:01] I've been trying to get my head around this moment

[39:03] that we're in and it seems like there's two things

[39:08] that we have to kind of deal with as true

[39:11] at the same time and I find myself jumping between the two,

[39:15] all the time with people.

[39:17] One is Vermont schools are too expensive

[39:21] and the other is we have too much school for Vermont.

[39:24] And I think that those are two important ideas that are different.

[39:29] And when we talk about Vermont schools being too expensive, I think we can really get focused

[39:33] on healthcare insurance premiums, special education, and how it's structured, there's a lot of

[39:40] reasons that we have seen rising costs, you know, the sense of like the per pupil costs.

[39:46] And I think we know well that a lot of those are out of our hands, but nevertheless they're rising.

[39:51] And I think that's something people understand and can quantify pretty easily.

[39:55] I think the second is actually much more difficult, which is just a loss of ambition

[40:01] in our state that is quantified in its population collapse.

[40:05] And I just wanted to say, Mike, I really appreciate how diplomatic you are in this,

[40:09] but I just want to point out, like, Vermont outperforms on this, right?

[40:13] We should not hide behind a shadow that, oh, everyone's going through the baby boom.

[40:16] like we get the baby boom, I know world war two haven't, right, for mine has gone above

[40:22] and beyond, and as the representative from war and I can speak that war and has gone

[40:27] even further. And I think we need to be honest about a community that has benefited from rising

[40:33] second home ownership and a lot of economic activity that has been at the cost of children in

[40:39] schools. And for all of the concern about the loss of theirs and the use of where I live,

[40:46] we should be concerned about the loss of children. Because the number one way we can make

[40:50] education more affordable would be to have more butts and seats. I don't see a lot of really

[40:55] good ideas around that. But that said, unfortunately, we're not going to be able to solve a lot of that

[41:01] as a school board. And so we have to, I think, accept some of these projections and really

[41:06] are planning on it and I just wanted to say as a father of three young children in the valley who

[41:12] went to small business, I have to accept something that makes me sad that nevertheless,

[41:16] accept something that feels like a consensus viewpoint that's capital, Scott Popular,

[41:22] and really informs the large majority of voters in my community. But I appreciate seeing these numbers

[41:28] because I think they really informed this sort of duality. We have to be conscious of which is,

[41:32] Yes, our schools are expensive and we need to address that.

[41:36] But yes, we also have too much school where our state is heading, only have to be honest

[41:40] about that.

[41:45] Thank you, Megan.

[41:48] Go ahead, Pam.

[41:49] I promise to be quick.

[41:50] I just listening to John Cummins and Dr. Mike Cummins and making Cummins, and then even

[41:54] the public Cummins from earlier, I think there's this idea out there that we haven't thought

[41:59] about other options, but I think if you look at all of the decisions we made over the past

[42:05] several years. They were all the other options because our towns hadn't wanted to consider

[42:12] closing the school. And so we made the choices to cut down on staff and it's now impacting

[42:17] special education. We've made the decision to consolidate classrooms and now we have

[42:21] larger classrooms than we had before. And at the end of the day, there's still things outside

[42:25] of our control, namely this loss of population that we can't force people to have children. We can't

[42:32] people to move here with their children and now is to make us point. We have more school than we need.

[42:38] So it's like we have thought about alternatives and we have been trying to engage in those alternatives

[42:43] and yet here we are anyway.

[42:48] I can second that not too long ago. I got a memory up, you know,

[42:52] when your memory is pop up on Facebook and it was when we we fished for an independent school in 2016

[42:58] in Warren and we had 150 people come to the meeting. People were interested but we couldn't get

[43:04] enough grab to make it stick and that was just for the war in school. So a lot of people have

[43:10] tried things over these years. Who was up? Jill?

[43:16] Because I know that I'm new to all of

[43:18] that, but remind me how much of the budget is going towards healthcare. Right? It's like

[43:25] going to stat, right? No, but I mean to that at least point, it's the staggering amount, correct?

[43:29] Is there a way, and I recognize this is not necessarily something the school board could do,

[43:34] but the community of standing in front of the Green Mountain Board and demanding that all schools

[43:43] have some kind of deal with the UVM hospital system insurance, whatever, where it's pulled

[43:49] down. Like an internal something, something that is because it's killing the state. It's not just

[43:56] killing the schools. I mean, it is nobody can live here because of the healthcare issues.

[44:03] So I mean, is there a, I guess I'm, I recognize we can't, I'll just, but could we get like

[44:10] community come together and demand change there because that I think could really actually potentially do some real change.

[44:25] So I joined that committee to help negotiate the healthcare contract, though.

[44:30] No, but maybe.

[44:35] That, to all of us who've been doing schoolboarding for a little while, the fixing of healthcare,

[44:42] it just feels like we're, you know, knocking on the door and nobody, nobody wants to talk

[44:47] about that or fix that.

[44:49] I mean, and that's at the administrative level of our state.

[44:52] But I think that the more outspoken we get, you know, we've invited our local reps here and

[45:00] We've invited Phil Scott himself. We've invited Amanda Genu in just in the last few days. These are points we need to make to them. When they're sitting in front of us and they're saying, oh, but we're not hearing a lot that people are bombed. Really? Because we're hearing a lot that people are freaking out about that. And we're talking about $45 to $50,000 a head for these insurance plans.

[45:23] I don't know that the public is quite aware of this, right?

[45:27] Like, we're aware.

[45:28] But I think the public here's things like, well, the material costs, right?

[45:31] The buildings are so expensive, the upkeep, right?

[45:33] Stuff like that.

[45:35] And I think we need to outreach and make them,

[45:38] and I know that's part of what's happening, right?

[45:39] But make them so incredibly aware that, like,

[45:43] this is where your tax money is going.

[45:45] And this is where the whole that is dissolving our schools.

[45:49] And it's not sure our gold tax that's going up our own, I mean, sorry, our own personal health care regardless of whether you work for this day to the schools or whoever health care and Vermont is absurd.

[46:01] Go ahead, Jake, then, then make and JB, then make and.

[46:07] I guess my first question was are we waiting for October 1st to roll any sort of enrollment slides into the official outreach plan.

[46:17] That's my first question.

[46:19] You're welcome to use anything I have, and we'll just update them in October.

[46:24] Yeah, I just picked you back on that.

[46:27] I said it at the committee meeting, but I'm finding it hard within the confines of this committee in doing what we're supposed to do,

[46:34] although I honestly overwhelming support from people that I know for the path that this board is going on.

[46:40] but the story still remains to get out there. And I said it during the meeting about

[46:46] Midie, parallel to the way it's filled with wastewater projects. And now it's failed 20 years ago,

[46:50] and it's a huge success right now. And it's all about telling the story. And we have all the pieces

[46:57] of that story. I'm not trying to put all this on the outreach committee, but that story needs to get out there.

[47:02] And all of that needs to be with on with Caitlin's doing, and we need to make it so people understand

[47:08] They hear bits and bits of health care cause are going up, but they're still not understanding

[47:13] the story.

[47:14] I know that's what you're trying to do, and I think it's still for it's awesome.

[47:26] I had a follow-up for Joe, but JV, did you, are you done?

[47:32] Ashley?

[47:34] Sorry.

[47:34] Yes, he's done.

[47:35] Go ahead.

[47:36] So, JV, I mean, I appreciate both of those points and, well, I mean, as a member of the engagement

[47:40] committee, I appreciate the incognito guidance, like we need to do more everywhere and the

[47:47] on that, but appreciate that. Jill, I just wanted to respond to a really honest question.

[47:54] And I hope we all can talk about the excellent notes part being on Zoom to do that.

[47:58] It strikes me that I joined the board a few months ago, and I feel like I'm just getting

[48:02] over my focus on healthcare campaigns, and I'm moving to like enrollment as like the story

[48:08] that I want people to understand. Like I found it outrageous that there's all of these

[48:13] cost drivers in terms of why education is super expensive, that we can't control, and I also

[48:19] find it challenging to talk about, you know, the things we can, which is really a number

[48:23] of teachers that then trigger all of these costs, but like, that's one side of the equation.

[48:29] The other side is the fact that at least we're in, but also as a district. I may be the major

[48:36] trend, the major reason we're having this conversation is the loss of kits. And so again,

[48:40] I'm modulating between schools are too expensive versus we have too much school, but as we

[48:46] moved down this path and I think the way you put it was what's that story we want people

[48:49] to understand. Obviously it's both. But what you're talking about is really pointing out

[48:54] we need to address these rising costs. And honestly, if they were like, yeah, let's do it.

[48:58] I don't know if that would actually solve our problem. Again, I'm just really on this question,

[49:03] I'm starting to think that enrollment is really like the thing we should be being pots and

[49:07] about because it's not like we should try to change it. It's more like we can't change it and it's

[49:12] going to drive our decision-making. But I'll leave it there. I just would love some thought about

[49:17] those two kind of points and how they play together.

[49:21] I think though it's a both and not an either

[49:24] or because families can't afford to live in this state anymore. I mean, I have a two physician

[49:29] household and we are like losing money in this state. So it's just to me it's just like there's

[49:37] it's both, right? Like, people can't come here and have little kids and have like one of the

[49:43] parents home with the kids, for example, and make it make it work. So I do think it's a both

[49:50] hand, but I just want to comment on that. I actually had a conversation with a mom from

[50:01] and she was saying about the story. She was saying you have to tell the story of how we fought

[50:09] against losing our schools because people are going to come to our meeting and they look at

[50:15] us as a group now and they think these are school closers. They're coming for our schools.

[50:21] When in fact we are the carnage of all the fights to keep all the schools open. So my questions

[50:27] for this board are, how do we create the story, which has a past, a current, and a future

[50:36] that we're not selling it, we're telling it.

[50:40] Like, what is that story and what are the components of that?

[50:43] Because that's all a little amorphous for me.

[50:46] But I hear when JB says we need the story, I agree with that.

[50:50] And I think back to Lang gave a little chat about how hard would came to be in the 50s.

[50:56] took 11 years, three failed bonds, numerous committees, study groups, feasibility work, all that

[51:04] happened, but it still took 11 years, you know, it's like, people, we as humans, we love to

[51:10] fall back on what is familiar, we don't, we'll take familiar that sucks over age, that is hard,

[51:17] in our, it's hard for us. So I want that story to be real, and I agree that that is a big piece of

[51:24] of having this conversation with community. Peter was frustrated that we haven't already done it.

[51:30] I would say to him, we're on meeting two. We're a public body. We do our work in the public.

[51:36] People will have to be patient and as frustrated as they are, we're frustrated. So we're all in it

[51:42] together as part of the story for me.

[51:47] That was really good. I do, I think,

[51:52] for me, letting the story does hinge on understanding how we got here and looking at the past

[51:56] and the decisions that were made.

[51:57] I think that's a great point.

[51:59] And we need to understand those decisions

[52:01] in order to chart the best path forward tonight.

[52:07] Lang?

[52:08] Well, this will be that we'll wind with Lang,

[52:10] because we gotta move on.

[52:11] Go on, Lang.

[52:13] Sorry, this iPad's very difficult, too.

[52:16] Yeah, as far as the story, I mean, yeah.

[52:18] I mean, obviously, a building vision committee,

[52:20] we had a meeting, we talked about it,

[52:21] a bunch of stuff tonight.

[52:22] We're gonna talk about that as a emotion,

[52:25] but I think coming up the backside,

[52:26] I think that getting as much

[52:30] Like, not back at the neck and not mind to be the vessel, but to data out to people to understand what the long-term goal is and where the cost savings are and where we can bring services back and how we can provide a really quality education to all of our kids and also try to be fiduciary responsible.

[52:49] I mean, I think that's the message that we need to get out because people have to understand that we're not, we don't want to close schools, that's not our goal.

[52:57] We just want to provide the best possible service to our kids.

[53:00] And we want to do that in the most financially responsible way.

[53:03] And I think that's, I think that's our,

[53:05] all right, it's coming.

[53:06] And as you said, we can only really do this work in these public meetings.

[53:10] And that's what makes it really difficult for us to move forward and get that information

[53:14] up to the public.

[53:15] But I think there's a thirst for that knowledge.

[53:17] People are still open-minded.

[53:19] And I think if we give them some of that information,

[53:21] I personally would like to see how the numbers work out as well.

[53:28] Thank you.

[53:31] We should just mention that we do have community outreach meetings and that everyone can join if you're interested in learning more about how we are getting that together.

[53:42] Okay.

[53:44] Thank you for that.

[53:45] Mike.

[53:46] And in my last comment was just the board approved a trip to Denmark.

[53:51] We do it almost a year ahead of time and Matt Henshin's the organizer of that trip, he's a teacher at Harvard.

[53:56] I think most of you know him as he's gotten discussions over the summer with the school.

[54:02] The timing that was originally proposed does not work for that school.

[54:05] So it's actually going to have to be a little earlier.

[54:08] The positive going earlier, it'll be less time away from the students for their break.

[54:13] So we have a formal process for the board to approve it.

[54:18] You approved it.

[54:18] I just wanted to make sure you were aware that the dates that you were approved are being

[54:22] changed.

[54:24] And there's some discussions we can have them commit.

[54:26] But I think it's just acknowledgement that that's I think you're going above and beyond

[54:31] and exploring potential district and mergers.

[54:37] This is, that's the, okay, that's the way we last right out of the joke.

[54:42] I think we're not, we're not, we're not, we're not, we're not, we're not, we're not, we're

[54:45] You know, that's a really hard work to merge with the Denmark district, but that's a great idea. Maybe we can explore it.

[54:53] They all speak fine.

[54:53] No bad ideas.

[54:55] So we're there.

[54:57] Thank you for the comic relief.

[54:59] Okay.

[55:00] We are going to move on to the finance report from Lisa.

[55:07] We'll pull that up.

[55:08] But just to be able to put context to those numbers for health insurance, health insurance is 12% of our overall budget.

[55:15] And of benefits, it's actually $6.7 million.

[55:19] It's 60% of our benefit budget.

[55:22] So it's increased year over year.

[55:24] And on average, it's increased in the last five years,

[55:29] 45% on average is over 10%.

[55:33] And I'm already budgeting for fiscal year, 20, 28.

[55:38] And increase of at least 11%.

[55:44] So just really quick on my report, I have only just a quick report,

[55:53] it's in the actual document.

[55:54] Can you pull it?

[55:55] Can we have access to it?

[55:57] Oh, you don't have access?

[55:57] Can you just give it?

[55:59] Yeah.

[56:00] Well, we don't have the same thing that we are talking about.

[56:02] Yeah.

[56:03] I was working on it.

[56:05] I haven't finished it.

[56:07] Okay.

[56:07] I would.

[56:08] Oh, I did it to her with that's why anyone with links.

[56:12] It's right in the agenda, in the agenda within the agenda.

[56:18] So in my report, my first report is actually part of the discussions today.

[56:22] It's really the request to increase our capitalization from 5,000 to 10,000.

[56:31] I gave my reasons, and then we'll also have it drawing discussions.

[56:35] So if you have any questions on that, we briefly talked about it at the last board meeting.

[56:38] I also wanted to include just a review of a fiscal 27 budget.

[56:46] What I did was, you know, when I passed the budget, we were always talking about 72%

[56:53] as human resources.

[56:59] No, no, no, no, no, no.

[57:01] Oh, I haven't.

[57:02] You can put that up.

[57:03] You share it.

[57:04] I'm not inside in.

[57:09] I gave the access.

[57:11] Okay.

[57:17] I'm re-fracting.

[57:18] Now

[57:21] You all on

[57:23] You have

[57:29] Repot into the agenda if that's a new blinks

[57:33] I'll share with you right now

[57:40] shared

[57:45] Okay, so what I just wanted to do is I wanted to review our fiscal year 27 budget

[57:51] When we're talking about it

[57:52] Before we had the actual budget approval our salary and benefits were running around 72%

[57:58] we're actually up to after we said and done all the contracts and all the contracts are signed.

[58:05] I reloaded the budget and it actually is actually 73.33% of our budget, so it is increasing.

[58:13] You got it? Perfect. Okay.

[58:17] So I broke it down based on salary wages benefits and operations. You'll see we're at 51.8 million

[58:23] dollars are approved budget and that is our breakdown which total 73% of our total budget.

[58:32] Next slide, what I did was I just, I can be here what I did is I displayed key programs

[58:41] including salaries in these different programs, but I can slice the projections however

[58:47] you want me to show them.

[58:48] What I wanted to be able to show is this is including salaries by function or programs, and you'll see

[58:57] Obviously general instructions is the largest at 18.9 and then special special education health services and so on and so on. I know that scale is very small, but you can increase that in larger.

[59:13] And the last slide, what I wanted to do is everybody's been asking me for a school budget by school.

[59:21] So I broke it down again, salary wages, operation by school.

[59:26] So we can share that information out.

[59:29] So I just wanted to review the fiscal year 27 approved budget.

[59:34] And I've also been working on forecasting for fiscal year 28,

[59:38] using the new spending threshold, I don't like to say excess spending threshold, spending threshold,

[59:46] Mike and I agreed to say spending threshold.

[59:49] And so I've been forecasting that, I'm going to be sharing that at the next budget meeting.

[59:54] I've forecasted that with my projections in terms of salary and health benefits and transportation.

[1:00:00] Next year, we're going into our third year of our transportation contract. We already know we have an increase in transportation for 8% budgeting health care at 11% because this is what I'm kind of hearing in the in the works, but we don't, you know, we don't know what's happening, but I'm going to budget just for precaution. We also are going into negotiations, so I'm putting some assumptions in there, and it is, you know, an eye opener for fiscal year 28.

[1:00:30] that I'm forecasting. And again, remember starting in fiscal year 28, the excess spending threshold is dropping down to 115% and then a good down 1.5% year after year.

[1:00:45] So in forecasting, I'll share this with you at the next budget meeting.

[1:00:48] I forecast that it was my assumptions for the next couple of years plus the excess spending threshold plus

[1:00:56] what our long term weighted average would be when we factor in our decrease in enrollment.

[1:01:07] Before we get to questions, I did want to point out two things that Lisa and I talked about with this slide.

[1:01:12] First is you really have to focus in when you're looking at buildings on the right hand side on the operations piece.

[1:01:18] And one of the reasons I always remind people who are looking at school line budgets is that you could have two buildings with the identical number of staff.

[1:01:31] One building has teachers who are at the very top of the salary schedule. The other building has them all at the bottom of the schedule.

[1:01:38] It's an extreme example, but they may have the exact same number of staff, but they're going to have different costs for their staff.

[1:01:46] because of the education level and experience level of their teachers.

[1:01:50] So to get a good comparison, it's good information to have.

[1:01:53] It's very important, but you have to keep that in as a caveat,

[1:01:56] but really look at the operational cost and then I want Lisa to define

[1:02:00] to district-wide does not mean central office.

[1:02:03] District-wide means positions that are district-wide.

[1:02:06] So our English language teacher, she is a district-wide position.

[1:02:11] A number of our special education teachers are district-wide positions,

[1:02:14] even though they may be housed in a particular building.

[1:02:17] Am I missing any other key state?

[1:02:19] Does that include nurses who share their time between campuses?

[1:02:25] No, they're actually allocated based on their percentage.

[1:02:28] So if they're 5% at one school and 5% at another school, they're salaries broken out.

[1:02:32] But district wide where we actually have someone either shared amongst all schools what

[1:02:38] we've done is just raised it up to a district level.

[1:02:41] Erica's director of food services district level. There's certain people that are district level that we do

[1:02:47] We share that at that level

[1:02:49] District also includes and when you're looking at these expenses, I want to keep in mind

[1:02:54] district

[1:02:56] We also have all of the

[1:02:59] Below the line again, what the difference between above and line below the line above the line is salary and benefits and below the line is all operational costs

[1:03:07] So, special education costs are also pulled in at the district level below the line because what happened was we decided to do that is when a school was working through their approved budget during the year.

[1:03:24] They are special ed budget could be thrown off completely and they'd be in an overdraft based on special ed for their expenses for special ed.

[1:03:33] we did as we pulled all of those expenses at the district level. So when you see the district of

[1:03:38] the number so high, that's because of all special education expenses are at a district level.

[1:03:45] If I could actually, if I could just hold it, can we have just for a second?

[1:03:51] And that's why if you look at operations district wide, the operations is much higher than salary

[1:03:57] benefits that the personnel cost because essentially we say that's John's budget.

[1:04:05] But, but again, it's put there because you could have one student who requires an extensive

[1:04:10] level of service who, if that student was in a particular building if they were in, you

[1:04:16] know, this building in Harwood, it would significantly throw that building's budget off because

[1:04:22] of the required needs that child had.

[1:04:26] And I, I don't, I'm just one more thing, I just wanted to remind everybody where we used

[1:04:31] budget 110 of the average salary for a teacher with health benefits last year, two years ago

[1:04:37] it was 120.

[1:04:38] We're closer to 136 this year, including benefits for an average salary because of benefits.

[1:04:45] So not even a high end salary.

[1:04:47] No.

[1:04:47] Okay.

[1:04:48] Go ahead and make an amendment.

[1:04:52] I mean, first of all, if I just wanted to say this is really terrific, visualization

[1:04:56] of it.

[1:04:57] I really appreciate you putting it together.

[1:04:59] I mean, I have some feedback about it that's meant to make it more effective, but I just

[1:05:02] I'd like to thank you. I know it's a lot.

[1:05:07] I think the way this is presented is really powerful.

[1:05:10] I think we don't serve ourselves by presenting district wide as a peer of the schools.

[1:05:18] I would refer us to the letter we received from our governor that reflects a prevailing popular sentiment,

[1:05:25] which is that education and Vermont struggles with administrative bloat.

[1:05:29] And I just wanted it as a side point, say, I find that a sensitive based on my understanding

[1:05:34] of our administrative effort and the hardwood district, but nevertheless, I worry we

[1:05:40] lead with our chin by putting out a stack that's the second biggest school in our district.

[1:05:46] I would rather see the school districts broken out as light for like and then a separate

[1:05:50] section unpacking this because it may be a way to educate how it's kind of a different

[1:05:55] kind of thing, but I just worry that, showing our ministry of costs as the second book is

[1:06:00] school and our district is going to be a lot of fun for people who kind of loved the politics

[1:06:07] ingredients.

[1:06:08] I just might want perspective, but again, it's fine as it is.

[1:06:11] I just wanted to flag it and I really appreciate you breaking it all out.

[1:06:15] No, actually, I think that's a very good point for us because it's, it's, it's, it's

[1:06:19] is not administrative cost. It really is the vast majority are costs for students for programmatic.

[1:06:27] Yeah, but if I might, I think you would agree if I'm coming to this cold and I see this,

[1:06:31] I just call that admin cost, right? Because it's not a school. 100 percent. We agree. 100 percent.

[1:06:36] So what I can do is I can break it out and have it a different scale and actually give detail

[1:06:41] for what those expenses are for district wide.

[1:06:48] So unfortunately, I cannot properly see the

[1:06:50] probably slide that is up in front of us because I still don't have access.

[1:06:54] No, I just want to pick on you for that for a brief second.

[1:06:57] But my actual question is, is I think that in talking about students that are participating

[1:07:03] or needing special ed or assistance, however we want to refer to a additional support?

[1:07:11] Do we have an idea of within our schools, how many pupils we're talking about?

[1:07:18] Because I think that that is something that could be really helpful with the community when we're talking about some of what our costs are that we have say.

[1:07:30] 600 elementary kids in our district and 250 need these additional services. I think that could be a number that might resonate a little bit better than dollar amounts to sort of thinking about what some of our overall costs are.

[1:07:49] That might be something that the average individual who doesn't get all crazy about numbers might be able to relate to that looking at them.

[1:07:58] So, 336 students out of how many total students, out of 15, you know, that's a good number of students that need additional support and services.

[1:08:11] And that's a big part of our budget, but that's a very important, you know, that's 350 whatever number you decide.

[1:08:17] It is, and I don't want to leave everybody thinking that that is the total number of students who receive support in our district that's above and beyond.

[1:08:29] And if Mandy were here, she would be able to share a lot more information.

[1:08:32] But that is just the number of students who are served with IEPs.

[1:08:37] There are probably almost an equal number of students who are receiving supports in other ways,

[1:08:43] which is something we're super proud of as a district that we are able to have students access

[1:08:49] what they need in the least restrictive way possible. So it is a big number and certainly

[1:08:56] the students that that that's a big number. I just say it's not all of it either.

[1:09:02] Big, but it's a carol. Oh, sorry Steve. Steve first.

[1:09:13] Yeah, thanks. I think the cost for

[1:09:18] special ed was about 9.2 million on one of the slides and that works out between 50, 15 and 20% of

[1:09:26] our budget. I'm pointing that out because we always hear the complaints that education costs in Vermont

[1:09:33] are so high, group of people costs are so high, but many, many states cover a portion of special

[1:09:41] ed costs out of other state departments, doesn't come out of the school budget. And as Cindy

[1:09:46] has repeatedly said, the same thing is true for mental health costs. Most states cover those

[1:09:52] out of the department's mental health. So it's not an apples and orange comparison when people

[1:10:00] say, oh, Vermont for people costs are so high in my state. It's much lower, et cetera.

[1:10:08] It's just a point I want to make.

[1:10:12] Thank you. Go ahead, Carl.

[1:10:15] I'd have followed questions. Thank you very much for putting all this together.

[1:10:19] One question I had was on. You mentioned the staff, the percentage of the budget that is staff,

[1:10:25] salary and benefits has been increasing and is now 73%.

[1:10:31] I've heard at least anecdotally I think that it's kind of over the past few years of cutting budgets.

[1:10:38] We've been trimming places outside of staff.

[1:10:41] Is that reflected like where has that number changed in terms of the percentage of the budget going to salaries over the past few years?

[1:10:51] Is that something you have?

[1:10:54] Yeah, the percentage of the salaries used to be, well, we'd have to take a better analysis of it,

[1:11:00] but we were roughly around 70%, and we've cut, even though we've cut operations, the biggest,

[1:11:09] we've had over the couple of years that actually have spent FTEs, because there's not that much to cut below the line,

[1:11:15] below the line, many of them are operational cost fixed, operational cost, heat, electricity.

[1:11:22] So there's very little discretionary funding that we've cut over the last couple of years.

[1:11:29] And I can go back and add it all up to for you.

[1:11:32] And I think we shared it in your slide too, all the different cuts.

[1:11:36] But predominantly it's been the FTE, so over the last couple of years.

[1:11:39] Thanks, and then you mentioned with the budget presentation that you're doing next meeting.

[1:11:47] I, just overall, kind of the budget, being new on the board, the budget process and kind of what,

[1:11:54] kind of when the board and the public can expect certain information is a little bit unclear.

[1:12:02] I'd be interested if you would be able to walk just like at a high level what the timeline

[1:12:07] is for that budget, kind of leading up to the election day.

[1:12:16] So I do a budget calendar and a budget timeline and I normally present that early October,

[1:12:20] but I'm actually going to be presenting it at the next budget meeting.

[1:12:24] And I present a timeline in terms of when I could, we talk about the discussion that what

[1:12:30] charge will be and then what if there's different scenarios that the board would like me to bring

[1:12:38] back and then I start sharing my preliminary budgets because right now I'll starting to meet with

[1:12:43] my administrators and forecasting and I will have a draft of the preliminary budget by mid-November

[1:12:52] and I'll start sharing the first and the second meeting of what the numbers will look like

[1:13:01] And based on also after next week's presentation, or

[1:13:04] next board meetings presentation, then the board will

[1:13:08] start discussing of what do we want to look like and

[1:13:11] what are the charges, what do we want her to bring back to us?

[1:13:15] So in November and December, you'll be seeing lots of different

[1:13:18] scenarios, budget projections, especially with the new

[1:13:25] spending threshold and how we would look.

[1:13:27] And then comes early January, after the break, we come back, we look at that again, and then by mid-January, we make a decision, the board votes on EA or Nae, to move forward with the budget we presented based on the scenarios, the different scenarios, and then we need to warn the budget by, I don't have the exact date in front of me, but it's towards the end of January, it's the third week of January, because we need 40 days.

[1:13:57] before and town meeting day. And so by the end of January we basically have the proposed budget

[1:14:08] then we prepare our annual report. And then I present an annual budget meeting the night before

[1:14:16] our town meeting day.

[1:14:26] I don't know whenever comes. Yeah. The great thank you very much for that.

[1:14:29] And so, it sounds like the real decision-part points are kind of in the early October where we start laying out what are the scenarios that we want to look at, and these are kind of, you know, we don't have infinite time to explore every option, we have to kind of choose where are the areas where we might want to try and and cut and then we go through in that kind of,

[1:14:59] You

[1:15:00] November, November, early December, that's going to kind of the iteration done. It gets done in kind of some of the real decisions get made.

[1:15:08] One thing I want to point out is we everything is preliminary and I'm basing it. Everything on the current yield December 1st is when the tax letter comes out. And that's when I then get my what the preliminary yield will be.

[1:15:24] And again, remember, our enrollments are really not solidified until like the end of October.

[1:15:31] So I normally don't get my LTW ADMs, my long term weighted average.

[1:15:37] And if you recall, we have two last year's vision 13.

[1:15:44] Probably until January.

[1:15:46] So I'm always the numbers are going to constantly be changing and told numbers are solidified.

[1:15:52] So early January is when I finally get, I hope to get the finalized LTWADM.

[1:16:00] So those numbers are always constantly changing, and if you recall, we don't actually

[1:16:04] finalize the yield until the end of spring, so everything's projection.

[1:16:08] And last year when we started the scenarios and the discussion of the budget, the yield was 88,

[1:16:17] 98, I think, 88, and then it actually went up to 9,241.

[1:16:24] So it changes.

[1:16:27] And next week, next meeting, you kind of tease some ideas about the general ballpark of what

[1:16:35] what level of cuts we're going to need to make from the level service budget is really

[1:16:40] so what I think I heard you say. Do you have a set are you going to be able to share that

[1:16:45] or a preliminary numbers at that next meeting or is that do I misunderstand what you are?

[1:16:51] Like you just said there was some eye opening numbers that you had. Is that the type of detail that

[1:16:56] you're going to be able to share a general ideas or what I'll be able to share is the projections

[1:17:01] of our overall proposed budget, and then how that is impacted with the new spending threshold.

[1:17:10] And then where we sit with that, because you remember once if we go over that excess spending

[1:17:14] threshold, we're penalized, if we go over a cost per pupil, our projected cost per pupil,

[1:17:19] we're penalized.

[1:17:21] So I'll be able to show you what it looks like with the projections, and then what I've also

[1:17:26] done is just also looked at what it looks like based on inflation.

[1:17:30] and so overall I'll be able to share that with you and then the board will need to make some

[1:17:35] decisions. That'll help shape the charges that the board wants to share with me and what

[1:17:42] I should bring back to the board then.

[1:17:45] Great. Thank you very much for playing that.

[1:17:48] And I do appreciate earlier in the meeting when Macon told me I was being very diplomatic and kind

[1:17:53] of cut to the chase. But sometimes I decided when I'm going to be diplomatic and when

[1:17:58] not there wasn't article in July that I'll share with the board that I also want to highlight

[1:18:04] as we're talking about special education costs and this is not in any way a criticism or

[1:18:09] negative of our teachers in our district. The work John does, the hard work everyone does,

[1:18:16] but Vermont was one of four states cited by the federal government for not making positive

[1:18:21] progress in special education. When I moved to Vermont and this is a conversation when John

[1:18:26] started together four years ago. I was shocked at the little level of statewide support guidance

[1:18:34] services, technical training, assistance provided to small school districts like we haven't

[1:18:39] Vermont. I was absolutely shocked. The article points out that Secretary Saunders has been

[1:18:46] trying to do work to reorganize and provide those services. But all of those services were cut over the

[1:18:52] or not provided it all, and there are services that I had to take advantage of as a superintendent

[1:18:59] as pulled resources. That's one of the reasons why people said that's that start ceases,

[1:19:05] or shared service agencies, which is a heavy lift for state where you're giving that work to people

[1:19:11] who are already running small school districts.

[1:19:16] But Vermont at risk of losing federal funds and it's

[1:19:18] but we're not provided with the level of service.

[1:19:21] There has not been a special education director at the state level, since the people who've been here since John and I have been our positions.

[1:19:31] It's been a revolving door.

[1:19:36] The salary for the statewide director is, John knows a better than I do, but for the special education director for the entire state of Vermont,

[1:19:45] something I think they're offering something like $70,000.

[1:19:49] Yeah, so there's been John knows this better than I do.

[1:19:53] Since this is my fifth year in this role, there's been three state special ed directors

[1:19:57] and probably about a year and a half total of no state special ed director two times ago

[1:20:03] when they offered the salary I believe was $67,000 and they did bump it up to about $83,000.

[1:20:12] they're looking for a person with a doctorate for that role so it's it's it's been a tough

[1:20:20] cell and it has been very impactful and obviously not having anybody in the role but not having

[1:20:28] consistency there so hopeful moving forward but it's been a challenge but that's an area again it's

[1:20:33] not a fancy glossy area but it's an area where there is a significant lack of coordination service

[1:20:40] and it's a professional guidance provided to school districts especially when you're looking at

[1:20:46] school districts that have smaller scale and that's I think a failure of our state.

[1:20:56] I just want to respond a little bit to Carl and some of the stuff about when we're expected.

[1:21:00] What I always have remembered about the past couple of years of doing budgets is that at some

[1:21:06] point or other Lisa and Mike come to us and say and so how much are you willing to present what

[1:21:12] percent of you willing to increase. We've had two percent. We've had seven percent. We've got 11 percent.

[1:21:17] And as a board, we have sat here and talked at great length about what that is and what direction

[1:21:23] these guys need from the board in order to come up with a budget that we could even potentially pass.

[1:21:31] So, and when does that happen? You begin to need to hear from us. We'll hear lots of your

[1:21:37] information, but then at what point would we as early as possible, I share. Probably we're talking

[1:21:43] about early November. Okay, okay, so that's all.

[1:21:49] Okay, thank you Lisa. That was really informative

[1:21:53] and we still have quite a bit to do but first of all I want to shout out to the students who I know

[1:21:59] this is dry dry as I know that. And you guys are very patient to

[1:22:06] sit there and listen to all this. And if you have some serious, if you have some ideas

[1:22:10] for ways that we can. Yeah, give more for you to engage you with to make it a little

[1:22:16] more. We're wide open, but we realize that it's really, it's really dull. And if you want

[1:22:21] some to like self impose some jobs on yourselves, tell me, make them up, figure out, do

[1:22:28] Some, I don't know.

[1:22:30] I know it's boring. We know it's a little boring. I mean, and I'm frailly it's only going to get a little more boring for a while. But anyway, we just want to recognize that for young people are sitting here while we're all like, wow, it's getting hot.

[1:22:44] All right, Caitlin, you all.

[1:22:49] Caitlin, talking about our.

[1:22:52] From building use and visioning, we're at the updated draft of the outreach committees presentation.

[1:22:59] Yeah, so I shared a draft last one last time we met and I haven't done a ton of additions but I wanted to walk through what I had and hopefully get some feedback as well.

[1:23:08] So the start is we do again if we're looking at what we're actually trying to accomplish.

[1:23:13] We're looking to make sure that voters have informed choice, that voters are familiarized with the broader challenges, all the things we talk about that are like now I feel very

[1:23:23] conversational in but I was not three months ago and then this third point to give

[1:23:28] photos the opportunity to collaborate on potential solutions. I mean we heard

[1:23:32] this in the open meeting session. The goal with this is that once we feel

[1:23:36] comfortable with this story that we're talking about as a board and that we do go

[1:23:41] out and so that's I think what I'd like to talk about at our committee meeting is

[1:23:45] starting to schedule those meetings. So if anyone is interested or has connections

[1:23:51] with any local groups that you can help schedule meetings with, I really want to start getting

[1:23:55] those on the calendar so we can actually start getting groups together and presenting this

[1:23:59] beyond this room. This is the same chart that was in Dr. Mike's presentation, I'll update the numbers

[1:24:06] based on what he had. We saw this, I haven't changed it. Budget keeps going up, that's the same

[1:24:12] cost started declining. I just added this bubble while we were talking that the 12% of total is

[1:24:17] care, so that's half of the benefits. And then again, just given what we were just talking about

[1:24:22] this idea of the special education being almost 10% of our total budget, and this is

[1:24:26] special education after salaries are removed. So I'm going to probably reach out to you, John,

[1:24:31] some members for the students that this helps. I think that'll give a good additional context,

[1:24:35] and I'll make a slide about that as well. The other thing is, as we add more and more conversations

[1:24:41] to this, they'll be more and more slides. The idea is depending on the group that you're talking

[1:24:45] through, you can hide slides and then bring them up. But as people have questions, we'll have

[1:24:50] hopefully answers for them. This slide hasn't changed since last time. This is the slide we're

[1:24:55] talking about in terms of cuts Carl. So we cut 27.5 staff in the two years ago. For last year,

[1:25:03] we cut another 20 FTEs, depending on how you look at it, in addition to some other

[1:25:09] Um, operational restrictions, and this is a section where I do want to get help.

[1:25:17] Um, as we were talking, you can see I just added this third bubble.

[1:25:20] Thanks John for that example.

[1:25:24] Um, but we have the example of how those cuts are actually impacting people on actual levels.

[1:25:28] And this is where we can bring in our own conversation, um,

[1:25:33] how I pilot that Dr. Mike and Lisa were in the cafeteria serving students because we didn't have enough staff.

[1:25:39] have the example of a nurse without a nurse on site, teachers, or spending time in classrooms

[1:25:43] putting on bandages that they could be using for teaching, but they can't, and then

[1:25:47] the fact that the only time at the principal had to meet with the Director of Special Education

[1:25:52] Students Sports Services was also cleaning Chromebooks.

[1:25:55] Clearly, our staff is multitasking across the board.

[1:25:57] The more examples of this, that we can find, and actually the students is a great example

[1:26:01] for you guys to wear either points where you feel like there's just not enough staff or staff

[1:26:06] doing like three things at once. Maybe helpful.

[1:26:10] This came back up. I was thinking about it earlier when we were talking about just like the whole discussion.

[1:26:16] Currently, as a senior, TAs are a teacher advisories. We meet with them every day.

[1:26:23] And even with like just thinking about like there is this decline in enrollment, but it even like more shocking when we don't have enough teachers

[1:26:32] to cover an entire grade for TA. So these freshmen, there's not enough teachers to have like

[1:26:40] a reasonable size TA. So my TA, along with two other senior TA's, have brought in 10 freshmen.

[1:26:49] So 30 freshmen are with roughly 30 seniors because there are like even with such a small amount of

[1:26:56] kids. There's not enough teachers. Like we've we've gone down to the bare minimum. And like that's

[1:27:04] it's like very shocking. Especially like TAs is bought where students are really supposed to be getting like

[1:27:10] just a teachers help and not even academically, but just like socially getting their ducks in a row. And that's like not

[1:27:18] happen thing as it should

[1:27:23] quick or clarification TA stands for teacher advisor great thank you.

[1:27:35] So what's the ratio now? It's different for some other other senior TA's had to give up their

[1:27:45] kids so two TA's combine. So then one of the senior TA like who would be a senior TA this year is now

[1:27:55] freshman. That's happened the past couple years, but because my teacher being among one,

[1:28:03] like my teacher advisor, she was like, I don't want to give up my seniors. I've been with them for

[1:28:07] three years, along with a couple other ones. So they took on students. So usually it should be about

[1:28:16] 10 to 1 for T.A. And my T.A. is 20 people. So it's like it's it's large and it's just like not what a T.A. is supposed to really look like.

[1:28:30] You're not getting the individualized attention.

[1:28:37] Yeah.

[1:28:38] I would also just like to add.

[1:28:40] I have a sister who's a freshman and she was one of those students who went into a senior T.A.

[1:28:46] And she came up to me after the first day of school and she was like, I'm honestly really confused.

[1:28:52] I don't know what to do. I don't know where I'm going and she just didn't have those people to tell her her way is around the school.

[1:29:01] And I think especially for freshmen, it's incredibly important to have a person to trust and to be guidance.

[1:29:09] Did she saw their freshman with no TAs letters?

[1:29:12] It's just the TAs or spreads so thinly.

[1:29:17] Let's thank you for that, JB.

[1:29:21] This is really small, Kaylin.

[1:29:23] And maybe I'm wrong.

[1:29:24] Were you guys the least in like you were serving lunch way more than once last year?

[1:29:30] Unless maybe that just seems like maybe was one incident.

[1:29:33] Maybe we could tweak it just to reflect the realities.

[1:29:36] It was more than once.

[1:29:37] I also have to speak up for our principals that our principals do pretty regularly and if you

[1:29:45] go into across the Brook any day doing is usually running the register to help out number

[1:29:50] one but also it's one of his ways to get to know all the names of the students. But our principals

[1:29:55] to help out all the time so I don't want to make it sound like Lisa and I did anything extraordinary.

[1:30:01] Our administrator assistance custodies get pulled in every occasionally too, so everybody's lending a hand.

[1:30:09] I can rewrite that to be a little bit more inclusive there. And again, if there are other teachers, I don't actually think you had one that maybe we can add as well.

[1:30:16] Are there examples of this? Just how full of you?

[1:30:18] um,

[1:30:23] how much she comes home like exhausted because she's one of the principles at Cross

[1:30:28] of Brook, but she has to, she'll be like, in between meetings, she'll have to juggle

[1:30:33] like four different classes for, um, substituting and then also deal with behavioral issues.

[1:30:41] And it's like, I know it's very similar with the elementary schools, just because, yeah,

[1:30:47] our spread super thin and it's just like it's unfortunate to see how much the teachers and

[1:30:55] administrators have to struggle.

[1:30:59] Perhaps it just goes to the multitasking, but I know last year

[1:31:01] during my son's IEP meeting, the principal attended on the phone while she was shaperoning

[1:31:06] a trip so she was on the bus and taking the meeting. So they really are multitasking.

[1:31:13] They are when people were saying, well, it's just cut principles.

[1:31:17] Number one, there is EQS standards that you have to meet.

[1:31:21] Number two, there are most flexible employees.

[1:31:27] Okay, sorry.

[1:31:29] Typing that way.

[1:31:30] Well, I pre done that.

[1:31:31] No, that's super helpful.

[1:31:35] To tell us that, that's, you're, you're telling it to the whole community right now.

[1:31:40] That's the role,

[1:31:43] right?

[1:31:44] Oh, and those examples in.

[1:31:45] Um, this is just an explanation. This doesn't change at all of the, um, spending threshold at the excess spending threshold.

[1:31:54] So when we present this, we'll walk through it. Hopefully we're all aware of how that works.

[1:31:59] This doesn't change either. This is again, the same presentation of how that's going to impact our budget.

[1:32:03] Similarly, here, these two slides are the same information is just one is all the information and one is just the right big takeaway,

[1:32:12] which is that as this excess spending declines, our overall budget goes up even with just maintaining

[1:32:19] level standard. This is based on the projections that Lisa gave us at the end of last year,

[1:32:24] so as we get new budget numbers, we can put these in and keep this up today.

[1:32:31] This is a new slide. I'm stunned by this slide, but I think it's really important.

[1:32:36] The excess spending threshold is a result of Act 170, and when I checked all of our representatives

[1:32:41] voted for that which is pretty disappointing. So I put that in there and I put their quotes in

[1:32:49] there as well as to their justification for that but I think this is something we can talk about

[1:32:52] with them when they do, when they do come to the meetings.

[1:32:57] So the way can we do the death by 1000 cuts

[1:32:59] hasn't changed but I did add from the report all the photos of some of the fun ways that our buildings

[1:33:08] need help. This is just a selection of the most visually appealing versions. I didn't do all

[1:33:15] of the electrical stuff, which is just pictures of electrical boxes, but talk about how

[1:33:19] heaters that were installed in 1996 are about to go offline. There's a time here that can be pretty.

[1:33:32] I think with this slide and thinking about community response, this is one of the things where

[1:33:37] unfortunately the community thinks that the school boards in general when I say boards over the years

[1:33:43] has mismanaged money by ignoring the fact that schools need to repairs and that's the exact

[1:33:49] opposite. So I think that could be an important thing to put in the back of our heads for the

[1:33:55] community outreach is the reason why this hasn't been addressed and it's not because school boards

[1:34:04] didn't want to put money into our buildings.

[1:34:09] And I would also say, I had a question for Lisa.

[1:34:12] The question came up with the amount the board has spent on architectural services.

[1:34:16] And since we've been in our positions, it's been roughly $150,000.

[1:34:23] $150,000 over the time before.

[1:34:26] And the significant piece of that was the building evaluation,

[1:34:31] which if you remember when we talked about that,

[1:34:33] Well, while Ray knows buildings and maintenance, he doesn't note the degree that systems that needed to be identified to that process would be.

[1:34:44] So when Lisa and I came, the work you see here is not the accumulation of the last four years since we've been here.

[1:34:52] It looked pretty much like that when we started. And at that point, I think we had in capital reserve around $2 million.

[1:35:01] So the $150,000 the board has spent an

[1:35:04] on our opinion on needed services to give us some guidance and direction.

[1:35:10] It's not taken away significantly from the

[1:35:13] tens of billions of dollars in deferred maintenance.

[1:35:16] Nor has that would have seen if he can land it to the

[1:35:19] $2 million that we found when we started our positions.

[1:35:23] I think making has Sandraised.

[1:35:31] I do.

[1:35:32] I do.

[1:35:33] Or should I wait to the end?

[1:35:36] I'll handle the people as best I can.

[1:35:39] But if you need to make and go for it,

[1:35:41] then we'll have Cassidy after that.

[1:35:43] Go for it, make it.

[1:35:45] Well, first off.

[1:35:46] I can't.

[1:35:47] I just wanted to say this is awesome.

[1:35:49] I saw an earlier version.

[1:35:50] I really appreciate all the work

[1:35:51] because I'm putting this together.

[1:35:53] And I just wanted to share kind of a top line piece that frankly is that it would be additional content, but it may be content we already have.

[1:36:03] But it's based on what I hear from people when I have been trying to talk to them about this.

[1:36:08] I think what you're describing is a budget to deliver educational experience.

[1:36:13] Our students give and we don't do a quick description of what that is at the top.

[1:36:18] And I kind of made this point to Mike at our last meeting about his job description and kind of defining those educational metrics that are really driving our strategic plan.

[1:36:27] And I'm not.

[1:36:28] I don't think it's that complicated, but some basic questions I hear are how many teachers do we have and or would in district.

[1:36:35] How many have we had the last five years? How many do we project in the next five? How many classrooms? How many students?

[1:36:42] Because I think to some extent what there's a chicken in the egg, what the community wants is a multi-year plan for us that says we've decided this is what we want to provide.

[1:36:54] And we think it's going to cost this much, maybe there's different scenarios how we provide it.

[1:36:57] But if all we're doing is just talking about how much something costs and how it could be cheaper, we're not going to win that.

[1:37:03] There's just no outcome where someone's been like, oh, that sounds good.

[1:37:07] We have to ground this in what we believe the kids deserve and then stand behind what it

[1:37:11] costs.

[1:37:12] And that may mean higher class sizes, but we need to just be bold and say that.

[1:37:17] So people can do it.

[1:37:18] I'm going to tell you about because there's a couple exercise that actually get into it a

[1:37:21] little bit.

[1:37:22] Love it.

[1:37:23] Then think I should always the end.

[1:37:24] For sorry.

[1:37:24] But love it.

[1:37:26] Um,

[1:37:29] I think it must.

[1:37:30] The other point that we don't want to lose is that it is not just the school board that's responsible for some of this work not being done. Our communities have turned down one bond vote. They turned down a budget that caused us to pull another bond vote off of the table, both of which were involved with a lot of maintenance and taking care of buildings. So it's not just that this school board has done this, but we all have done this as a community.

[1:37:59] So, this is based on the work that Chex Collins did last October.

[1:38:04] I believe this is the report that you were referencing Dr. Mike where they looked at

[1:38:09] every building and came up with a comprehensive review of what it would cost.

[1:38:12] So, this is not my work.

[1:38:13] I'm hopefully, I'm summarizing it correctly.

[1:38:15] If there's anything incorrect here, please let me know.

[1:38:17] But what I understood from this chart is there's like party one, which is like, this

[1:38:21] stuff is a big problem and you need to solve it right away.

[1:38:24] Party two, which is like, things are at the end of their life.

[1:38:27] This is the 1996 heater that needs replacing, and then Party three, which is like other stuff,

[1:38:32] which is probably like, you know, the column that is decorative, but, you know, needs replacing.

[1:38:39] When we put it all together across all of the schools, according to the analysis that Tricks

[1:38:44] consted, the total cost for all of the priorities needed, I see, would be, and I do have this

[1:38:52] correct. So it would be the 1-21 million per everything. Which is a third of the total replacement

[1:39:02] cost for just if we just started from scratch with all these buildings. So what this is saying

[1:39:07] basically is that the cost to update phased in to with all of the priorities that we're seeing

[1:39:14] is half of the cost of just replacing phased in from the ground up. Am I reading this correctly?

[1:39:28] I've heard a couple of times here with people who actually have looked at these numbers.

[1:39:32] So my first thing is we need to take this slide and this 2x work and we need to put it

[1:39:37] in the story, but in a way that's not a bunch of numbers so people make it part of the

[1:39:41] story so people can understand it.

[1:39:43] People who have looked at this table, the couple comments I've received have been, well look

[1:39:48] at Harvard, it needs 73 million while you're closing the elementary schools with nearly

[1:39:52] total 48 million. So we need to answer that. Okay.

[1:39:59] Okay. No, no, it's good. So then based on

[1:40:04] this, based on the cost and the total replacement, one thing that we are considering as

[1:40:08] a board is consolidation. The church columns had some additional benefits, so I've added

[1:40:13] them. There's fewer overall staff needed. We talked about last time. Easier hiring was something

[1:40:18] that wasn't in here last time, so a lot of the small school districts are looking for part time

[1:40:21] work, a lot of staff are looking for full-time work, if you're part of a larger school,

[1:40:26] you can get a full-time staffer at sometimes easier to find those.

[1:40:29] Increase collaboration, if you're part of a larger school, teachers and staff have more

[1:40:33] opportunities to collaborate on different work streams, and there's also a social perspective,

[1:40:39] you're not just you and three other teachers, it's you and many, a larger cohort of teachers

[1:40:44] that you can provide support.

[1:40:47] The less infrastructure to maintain, that's the same number we saw on the prior slide.

[1:40:51] The budget freed up is a question mark that hopefully we can get more information about.

[1:40:57] And the incentive by state is, you know, they're offering $50 million for the whole state if the school districts consolidate,

[1:41:03] but we saw the estimated cost for new buildings and renovations are, I guess it's whatever we saw in the prior slides.

[1:41:09] So a lot more than $50 million.

[1:41:12] And then the peer's for students,

[1:41:15] scale loss, or specialization, particularly in a secondary school.

[1:41:18] We've seen this and I have another slide coming up on the benefits and drawbacks

[1:41:22] of size of classroom at a high school level.

[1:41:29] Smaller classes, but more classes in the same building,

[1:41:32] allow people to find their peers whether they're interested in robotics or sports.

[1:41:37] I went to a lot of small schools.

[1:41:38] My brother did two and he was often not.

[1:41:40] like he just couldn't find his people, right?

[1:41:42] You can't find your people when you're into like weird

[1:41:44] niche things until you get to college.

[1:41:46] So there are benefits to bigger communities.

[1:41:50] Drawback can also be a larger class size though.

[1:41:53] Potential for less and privileged-sized attention.

[1:41:55] And if you get up to a 30 person classroom size,

[1:41:57] then you do start to see some declines in effectiveness.

[1:42:03] Town centers and by towns, you think this is something

[1:42:05] that the community feels really deeply,

[1:42:07] and we probably want to elaborate on this

[1:42:08] and get more information from the communities

[1:42:10] as we talk this through about how we can, if we do go down the root of consolidation, how we

[1:42:15] can maintain town centers for places like more town where the school is the center there.

[1:42:23] And the initial outlay of money from a bond is something that we really need to talk about.

[1:42:27] So this is the note on class sizes. This is one of those slides that we can hide if we need to.

[1:42:32] But I just pulled in some reports that talk about the benefits of class size in elementary and high school.

[1:42:39] And there are a number of different points.

[1:42:41] You can see the citations in the bottom, but basically, in a 13 to 17 students compared to

[1:42:49] 22 to 25 students, there was positive academic effects, but they're pretty minor, and we looked

[1:42:54] at the difference between like a 35 reducing a 35 per student class to a 22 student class.

[1:43:00] You basically gained a month of knowledge from the sizing down.

[1:43:05] And so it is there, but what these studies are saying is that there's more effective ways

[1:43:09] to get that additional teaching benefits and then one of the studies found that very,

[1:43:16] actually I think this was a meta study found that very small classes don't necessarily

[1:43:20] produce better peer relationships.

[1:43:23] So again that idea specialization if you're in a class of eight, you might not find a good

[1:43:27] friend if you do, that's awesome, but I was in a, I was in a, I was in a grade with

[1:43:34] five people and I just have to say none of those five people are people I talk to now.

[1:43:42] High school I talk through this on the other side, but we have smaller classes are really great.

[1:43:49] But that larger cohort is really important for specialization.

[1:43:56] This is also something I pulled from the committee work.

[1:43:59] So again, please call me out if I've done this incorrectly, but this is all the different options

[1:44:03] that we asked Tricks call instillic into in March of last year.

[1:44:10] One of the things I added, and Lisa, this is something that I want your help with, is the

[1:44:14] impact of

[1:44:19] a bond on a five-year budget.

[1:44:22] So we have the 30-year savings, which is what Tricks Collins was projecting, and then I did

[1:44:27] a very, very back of the envelope sort of incorporating of a bond into what it would cost,

[1:44:34] additionally in the budget and then how that would affect tax rates. So that might be

[1:44:40] something that we want to talk through as we start to look at budget numbers. Especially

[1:44:44] if we want to, like I think it is important we've heard from folks that we want to look at

[1:44:49] the status quo potentially with a bond to fix the buildings. We've heard from the community

[1:44:54] that they want to be able to look at things apples to apples so I want to make sure that we

[1:44:59] I'm on the 2nd round.

[1:45:02] I think the building committee said you guys were looking at keeping one elementary school, maybe two. And then there was like another step after this where you decided that it was best to have one elementary school and one way of water break. So that's this option G1. And then it turned out that we sealed actually, didn't have the capacity to be expanded correct.

[1:45:30] But you can see here, when you compare the different numbers in terms of savings, that option had the most savings over 30 years and actually has the least impact in terms of a five year budget projection, which is why we ended up choosing that as opposed to choosing other options here.

[1:45:45] There's a really large study that we can point people to if they want to get into the weeds on this.

[1:45:52] This slide hasn't changed.

[1:45:55] This slide hasn't changed. The final slide is our asks of a community. One is to do what we asked for on this slide.

[1:46:04] The second is to work with us this budget season. This is why we want to start getting this out in front of folks in the next month.

[1:46:12] You know, we heard from the community input that they're looking for us to ask for more community input, and I think we need to go out and get it.

[1:46:24] awesome. Like I would love to hear them in more detail and we can talk about them. So let's find ways to do that.

[1:46:34] So this is, I find this a really thorny question of, again, part of the reason I wanted to hear from Lisa about what the budget process is, is that one of the takeaways, they're very small window, at least for this initial budget of

[1:46:52] what we can investigate when we can give feedback.

[1:46:58] So, I do think it's important to ask community to partner with us,

[1:47:03] but I also don't think that we want to give the impression

[1:47:07] that we want their feedback only to when they come to us.

[1:47:11] I have to say, sorry, we really can't take that.

[1:47:15] So, I think it's important to think about what,

[1:47:18] carefully about how we want to talk about this. And I don't have the answer, but that's my worry

[1:47:25] is that saying, having an empty, we want to work with you is going to be worse than being honest

[1:47:32] about what the levers that people actually have are.

[1:47:39] Fair. I think there's two side space. One is we have to get the budget through for next year,

[1:47:47] And that is going to happen, has to be finalized in January, or, you know, and vote it on a march.

[1:47:53] Two is the broader question of, as we start to explore options for that five that 10 years,

[1:48:01] where we know we're seeing the decline in population. We're seeing that our current route is not sustainable.

[1:48:05] We're seeing the yield and the foundation for a mode which is going to hit in five years.

[1:48:10] We start working on that now. I'm not expecting maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I'm not expecting

[1:48:14] us to come to a conclusion on that by the by the time time meeting date rolls around, especially

[1:48:19] if we're just asking for RFPs.

[1:48:25] Yeah, my thought is that there's there's like Caitlin said, there's two tracks here.

[1:48:29] One is the budget and separately the long term planning of where a district is going and

[1:48:35] what that process looks like and if we can do a bon vote or not, if there's another solution

[1:48:39] or not.

[1:48:40] And I think the way they overlap and connect is next year, Lisa's forecasted for us tonight,

[1:48:46] that there's going to be some shocking numbers and budgeting is going to be really hard and

[1:48:51] it's going to impact your community because it might shake them away to realize how dire

[1:48:55] the situation is that's pushed us here to make them really want to participate with us to

[1:49:01] make a meaningful change so that when we are talking about the future we are making sure that

[1:49:07] we understand like the example that comes to mind is like the tone centers like if that's your

[1:49:12] How can we make that work for you if we have to consolidate and so it's like a it's like a

[1:49:17] Two track thing they overlap and that the one might scare them into participating in the other

[1:49:23] Well, so I think there are a few things that I take from that that I think are really important number one that of

[1:49:28] Of kind of differentiating those two

[1:49:31] areas like this year's budget

[1:49:35] It should be paying pretty upfront that

[1:49:38] There are going to be some really hard decisions that we have to make on this year's budget.

[1:49:42] I don't think anybody's going to be happy with them, but we just, we don't, we don't,

[1:49:48] we have realities and we're going to have to react to them without very much input.

[1:49:53] I mean, this is, this is, again, just a hypothesis.

[1:49:56] I don't know for sure about that, but there is a longer time window for some of these larger

[1:50:03] changes.

[1:50:06] If we believe that, then I think we should say that as a part of the message, so

[1:50:13] that people don't come into this feeling like this next budget just knocked their legs out

[1:50:19] from under them, which it might still but, you know. And then I guess the other thing was I forgot

[1:50:28] and so maybe it'll come back to me and you can continue.

[1:50:33] JVD, do you have a comment?

[1:50:35] Kind of, I just, I think I understand what you're saying.

[1:50:39] I'll not sure, but I do think there is not just the need to deal with 28, but we need,

[1:50:47] I think the community, most of the community, is wanting some sort of long-term vision.

[1:50:53] So I do think we can't just kick that candle down the road and deal with 28. I would like to see 28 dealt with as part of the long-term planning. I think a lot of people would.

[1:51:05] Yeah, I think we need to at least lay the groundwork for that. I see Steve's hand up, Steve.

[1:51:14] Yeah, thanks.

[1:51:17] First of all, I want to thank a lot of people for making really good suggestions about what sort of community outreach we need,

[1:51:25] what sort of issues we should focus on,

[1:51:28] and maybe focus less on the boss drivers we've been pushing

[1:51:31] as a theme and more on declining enrollment,

[1:51:35] as forcing our hand, I mean,

[1:51:37] I really appreciate hearing all that.

[1:51:39] The other thing I wanted to say is,

[1:51:44] the outreach committee has been focused a lot

[1:51:46] on getting the message out,

[1:51:48] but I think Carl mentioned last time,

[1:51:51] maybe there's a need to receive messages

[1:51:54] It's a better way to hear from the community.

[1:51:56] A lot of us are being kind of, well, just deluge with lots of comments from community members.

[1:52:05] We've passed some of them on to Mike and Lisa to the point where Mike sent us out that email saying,

[1:52:12] hey, you know, don't bug us on every single question you get.

[1:52:16] We just don't have the time and some of the resources are available.

[1:52:19] So, one thing, some of us have been thinking about, and we'll discuss at the outreach committee meeting next week, is to have district webpage.

[1:52:30] We say, this is the place where the community can ask us questions. Maybe one page about the budget, one page about consolidation issues, short-term and long-term, and then we'll answer those questions.

[1:52:45] Many of them, the answers will be, we don't know yet, but many of them will be like, yes, we have the answers to this.

[1:52:52] look at this link. Look at that link. So in particular in the public comment tonight

[1:52:58] when the woman whose name I don't know said, well we should do a survey to get the

[1:53:04] community's sense of consolidation. We did one in 2024 and the support for consolidation

[1:53:13] was 10 to 1 and also as Dr. Mike addressed she said, well we should, you know, maybe do some

[1:53:22] cheaper consultancy work but you know we've kind of done all this stuff so I think this

[1:53:29] is a failure of the board and maybe me in particular to communicate better and I'd like to

[1:53:35] move ahead by also finding a better way to kind of absorb communication from the community so

[1:53:44] we're not always bugging Mike and Lisa.

[1:53:50] Thank you solid points for sure they have a lot on

[1:53:53] play it is hard to answer to 14 people who have a lot of questions. I like that idea how to

[1:54:00] other people feel about that of a page for where people could host questions.

[1:54:05] I think it's a great idea and I sort of thought that we've already had some conversations with

[1:54:09] some of the stuff that make them spend doing. I mean, really some of that stuff is just general updates

[1:54:15] to the website and making the board information more accessible, but I think that's really honest

[1:54:22] to make sense because there's going to be a lot of the same questions that are going to

[1:54:26] be coming along and then that can be something an area where we can collaborate in a public

[1:54:34] fashion, we're not breaking any of the open meeting, you know, the information is there

[1:54:41] and when people come to us with questions, we can just say, actually we've got this great page

[1:54:46] you know,

[1:54:52] not to state and obvious, but I mean, would it be beneficial to have like a

[1:55:00] social media handles for with little snippets right now these long-winded emails that come

[1:55:05] out that for the public that is more just like hey, let's break down act, you know, whatever

[1:55:12] in two minutes because that's the attention span we all have anymore.

[1:55:17] So, my thing's off, I don't know, anyway, with that be something that might be a better

[1:55:24] use of public outreach where people actually then are going to have a little bit of information

[1:55:30] about some of these things rather than reading a whole thing at once.

[1:55:36] Yeah, the idea was to craft the overall story with like all the details and every time we talk

[1:55:41] about it, there's more questions, right? And then everything should be there as a repository

[1:55:44] And then from that, when we're all aligned on what that storyline is and how to tell it,

[1:55:50] we can adjust it for various things, whether that's a front porch form post or a social media post.

[1:55:55] Personally, I don't think the HUSD should have a social media handle,

[1:55:59] but maybe we put together things that we can share as individuals or other places.

[1:56:06] For sure.

[1:56:11] Um, just thinking about like community and I know student body, like, I mean, students have

[1:56:18] even a lower attention span than adults.

[1:56:22] Um, but in past years, there were border ports out of assemblies and I'm currently writing an email

[1:56:29] because, um, to, like, assembly, like, teacher, um, Miss Clark, um, to hopefully incorporate

[1:56:36] those back in and not in a way that's just like here's the information and it's going to be

[1:56:41] really bad and it's going to be really hard but maybe like putting it more interesting

[1:56:47] spin on it to engage students like the student level to see how that goes so we'll probably get that

[1:56:56] back in assemblies which will hopefully like I mean if adults are hearing it from their kids like

[1:57:04] Like, like, so do you like the idea of that Jill just proposed of smaller, like, chunks of this information that you could share rather than giving a boring board report?

[1:57:16] Like, what would it, what, what, yeah. I mean, like, such as their hard to follow, especially from, I mean, there's 14 year old wait, how young are freshmen? Like, young?

[1:57:25] Yeah, um, yeah, like shorter information is easier to follow. Like, just like, after a month

[1:57:36] pile up, like so much changes in a month, if it's shorter, just like quick updates, I think

[1:57:42] that is where we can benefit from just like outreach and social interaction. We'd like to see

[1:57:48] what would come of engaging students on this. That would be interesting, I think, for the board

[1:57:53] to hear more.

[1:57:54] So, okay.

[1:58:00] Yeah.

[1:58:02] Go ahead, Caitlin.

[1:58:04] Are you done?

[1:58:04] Okay.

[1:58:05] Mike, go ahead.

[1:58:07] Just two pieces.

[1:58:08] One is a piece of feedback that I've shared with a number of parents recently that has

[1:58:14] kind of struck a chord.

[1:58:16] Then we talk about transportation.

[1:58:18] And we talk about organization of schools that have some kind of image of our district.

[1:58:25] We're 240 square miles, we cover six towns, we are bordered by the green mountains on both sides,

[1:58:34] and we average seven students a square mile.

[1:58:37] And I gave the I gave the comparison.

[1:58:39] Many people said, well, how does that rate to your experience?

[1:58:41] And I said, well, it was in a school district of less than half that geographic area

[1:58:46] with about 40 students a square mile.

[1:58:49] And that impacts, again, it goes to scale.

[1:58:52] So, however we could represent that, this is just an idea,

[1:58:55] it may not possible, but this is an idea.

[1:58:57] The other piece is I just wanted to speak up for Lisa and I,

[1:59:00] we are always happy to answer the board.

[1:59:03] We don't want to seem like we're grumpy,

[1:59:06] but I think Steve said it well,

[1:59:09] a lot of people are really interested,

[1:59:10] so we're getting a lot of questions about,

[1:59:13] hey, what about this information?

[1:59:14] Can we get this information from everyone?

[1:59:17] And that's kind of why I gave you that composite,

[1:59:19] because a lot of the information,

[1:59:20] And we, is out there and, and defined a way to just share that on a very quick site, some

[1:59:26] of the information that, you know, Michelle Baker, who spoke, who was our former finance

[1:59:30] director.

[1:59:32] When you're not in it every day, you don't realize kind of the level of work that's going

[1:59:37] into it.

[1:59:38] And it's not because people, people are trying to be helpful.

[1:59:42] But it does, you know, when Lisa's trying to clean up the audit, and I'm trying to get a school

[1:59:45] running, and you want to be responsive, I try to remember I work for the board as a whole

[1:59:50] So if there's something that we talk about at the table that you want or if it's something that's really quick available

[1:59:56] But it's difficult to draw

[2:00:00] We're going to drop what you're doing and kind of go digging back through the last year's board meetings, but it I think it was helpful.

[2:00:07] Having this question asked us to compile those resources and kind of a more easily accessible area.

[2:00:14] So I think Steve's idea of getting those ideas and then making sure we're delivering on them in a timeline that works for our community, but also works for us.

[2:00:25] Well, the disclosure, all the information in this deck came from taking through those files, so maybe like a FAQ, or like, yeah, we have me.

[2:00:36] We got to be more like an AMA, yeah.

[2:00:39] A little more, I like the idea of people being able to ask their specific questions.

[2:00:46] Okay, we're going to move on from that.

[2:00:48] Thank you.

[2:00:49] It's sounding good.

[2:00:51] Okay, the next part of our meeting is draft superintendent goals.

[2:00:57] I promised I'd bring back a draft and then discuss some later.

[2:01:01] I took everything that was shared and I broke it down in a couple of different areas.

[2:01:07] The first area is instructional and some feedback I got.

[2:01:11] It was a positive comment but it seems like we're layering some goals on other things that have happened

[2:01:18] And that's very true from talking to our principles, from talking to John, Mandy, Shannon Leslie.

[2:01:27] One of the things that has been kicked down the road for many years is taking a, and having

[2:01:34] a comprehensive approach to reading and a comprehensive reading program for the district,

[2:01:41] the reading series.

[2:01:42] We don't.

[2:01:43] We're still, we're still a vestige of the day is when we were a supervisor union and we

[2:01:47] individual school districts within our supervisor union. And it is a need. An instructional

[2:01:54] need. And that but there is a price tag that comes with that. But I put that down again the way

[2:02:00] I like to work on goals as to develop a plan for implementations. But to the year we come up with

[2:02:06] the ideas of what we need, how we would organize it strategically. So the board can look at it and say,

[2:02:13] that's a great idea or do you think about this or maybe we should do this instead and then by the end of

[2:02:19] the year have a plan that we can implement. So we we see a great need for a common reading program. There was a good bit of

[2:02:28] there was some positive news today. We we the individual student reports from the VT cap, which is the

[2:02:41] bar goes the statewide data until a certain point, and overall our reading scores, our assessment

[2:02:50] scores look really good from a year to year comparison. So I think we've put some emphasis

[2:02:56] in that, we'll come back to you with a report, Shannon Leslie's working on something, but that's

[2:03:00] an area we see as a priority. EdTech is another area we continue to see as a priority, especially

[2:03:05] with emerging artificial intelligence. We're going to come back in October and give you a

[2:03:10] snapshot of kind of where we are at the elementary level, but that's something else.

[2:03:15] Number three coming up with an easily comprehensible way to share our measures.

[2:03:23] And I would also give a lot of credit to the agency of education in this.

[2:03:28] They have been doing a lot of work in the last year to make the reports that are shared with

[2:03:32] districts in the public more understandable. We saw we spent some time again today hearing this

[2:03:39] preview from the secretary and I was very impressed with what I saw and then leadership in succession

[2:03:45] planning. That goes not just for myself, not just for Lisa, for all of our key positions and

[2:03:51] really the thought there is finding ways to build internal capacity and to give the board a plan

[2:03:59] so that whatever we look like in the future that you have some internal options.

[2:04:07] So kind of our thought was this to put this out, whether you have feedback verbally tonight

[2:04:11] or you want to send it to me individually, I would kind of refine this in the next two

[2:04:16] weeks based on any feedback I received, and then we'll put it on the agenda at the next

[2:04:21] board meeting.

[2:04:24] That sounds like a great way for us to not talk about it too much more because we're really

[2:04:28] running over a little bit.

[2:04:30] Does anyone, okay, with that in mind, if you have any comments or ideas about I know Steve

[2:04:39] does I'm going to have an email mic if you have or call the individual email me so it

[2:04:44] probably probably would be good if Steve and I but I know he's out of town right now.

[2:04:48] Yeah so let's that's two weeks away so if you have a comment on mic schools they're in

[2:04:54] the agenda and you can do that an email. Thanks, Mike. We're having goals.

[2:05:04] Okay, um, right.

[2:05:07] Okay, the next topic is the merger study group discussion.

[2:05:12] We touched on it at our last meeting that discussion is that we are currently in the

[2:05:20] Wineski Valley group, which is very Montpire and the Payne Mountain Small Schools.

[2:05:26] We've had some interest in looking at merging, not merging at all, but in being an

[2:05:37] called Group 13, which is MMU and CBU, we talked about the reasons we like that a little better

[2:05:47] because it just makes a little more sense for our geography. We touch with them, we're similar

[2:05:52] size communities. If anything were to come to be forced upon us in the future, it would be good to have

[2:06:01] a pre-established alliance. I'm not an advocate for merging districts right now, but it

[2:06:10] would be, I think, more palatable for our district to consider that than to lump in with

[2:06:19] the very monthly area. It just doesn't feel as, it doesn't feel like us as much. That's

[2:06:26] opinion, but what we need to do is we need to decide relatively shortly like today.

[2:06:35] If we're going to stay in the assigned group or let them know we'd like to look

[2:06:43] else look at this other group. So does anyone have any commentary on that go ahead Emily?

[2:06:50] I think it makes absolute sense that we suggest that we wish to remove to what's at

[2:06:55] air.

[2:06:55] Group 20, is that what it is?

[2:06:58] From 2013, because I agree completely that that just our geography, the size, the

[2:07:05] schools, the kind of community, it just feels like it's forcing us, I don't want to use

[2:07:10] the word city because Vermont's not really like a city state, but it would feel like we're being

[2:07:15] grouped into, so I'm all for it and I say let's do it.

[2:07:25] Yeah, I think the Carl made a point last time where he said sometimes.

[2:07:30] Going with someone who's different than you could be beneficial. And I think that was a really good point because I don't think always going with people, you're similar to the great idea. But in this case, it concerns me when I'm reading in the BT digger that Barry still doesn't have a school budget for this year. And I find that very concerning. So regardless of whether they're like us or not like us, I want to be grouped with people who can pass a budget.

[2:07:56] Cindy? One of the reasons I tried to step up to the plate to be a representative on the

[2:08:02] merger study committee was that I was very interested in the idea of a shifting our merger

[2:08:09] interest from 20 to 13. I think of highly of MMU. I don't see you there both very fine

[2:08:18] schools and I don't know. I just thought it was a good idea and it's one of the reasons why I

[2:08:24] up to be the major committee representative because I was interested in moving along to that.

[2:08:30] So I would encourage us to do that if it was possible.

[2:08:35] Well, it is possible. Does anyone else

[2:08:37] Caitlin gone? I'd be curious to hear from our student representatives in terms of your interactions

[2:08:42] with students at other schools if that if you have any thoughts.

[2:08:50] In terms of like

[2:08:56] have with other schools. I mean youth 32 and hardwood like there's always rivalry there and

[2:09:07] I mean like MMU, CVU, don't interact with CVU a whole lot. I mean they don't I mean in my mind

[2:09:17] it's crazy to think that Vermont school has 2000 kids in it. So I think that's definitely something

[2:09:24] consider but in a district so large like they have to be able to get things done so

[2:09:30] like I think we could interact like you might not interact at all yeah it would be

[2:09:36] in ten theory it's an SU potentially which would mean we would just sort of operate like we

[2:09:42] up right now about the chair services.

[2:09:49] Ella.

[2:09:51] Yeah, no problem.

[2:09:52] Last semester, I'm a previous year.

[2:09:56] I was a member of the Harkness class.

[2:10:00] And we had the pleasure of having a Harkness discussion with CVO.

[2:10:04] And we invited them to our school and had a discussion about an excerpt that we read.

[2:10:08] And it was a really wonderful experience and they all had a lot of good insight to offer and I really enjoyed it

[2:10:15] But it was a really cool club and it wasn't even a class on there and it was a club

[2:10:21] So I think in that respect. They have a lot of opportunities that we necessarily may not offer

[2:10:26] Great point. Okay

[2:10:28] All right, well, unless we have more commentary on that I am looking for maybe a motion to amend the agenda

[2:10:39] those we need to add it if we're going to vote on it right now to switch and the reason

[2:10:45] to switch now is there is a theoretical cut off on the 15th of September where a little

[2:10:51] how it's all it's it's it's it's it's all it's a little fuzzy about when the real cut off

[2:10:56] is but rather than get stuck we might as well just take care of it right now so Cindy's gonna

[2:11:03] There's some light there would be the parliamentary piece since you already adopted the agenda, as you first have to make a motion to amend the agenda to include changing merger studies, and that's the pass with the 75% vote, and then you have to make a separate motion to change.

[2:11:24] So while Cindy's doing that, can I go ahead and make the motion to amend the agenda to allow us to add the

[2:11:33] switch of the mergers study groups from 2013?

[2:11:39] Okay, first from Pam, second from JB, any other discussion or comments?

[2:11:45] All those in favor say I, I, any nays or abstentions, all right.

[2:11:54] So based on what you said, I wrote something so Cindy can type it in.

[2:11:57] So I'll read as a suggestion.

[2:11:59] Yes.

[2:12:00] What I wrote.

[2:12:01] Okay, that's the first part.

[2:12:02] We've now amended.

[2:12:03] So as I move that the hardwood unified union school district board vote to request that

[2:12:08] U.S. D. B. or sign re-assigned for mergers study group 20 to mergers study group 13.

[2:12:20] Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Spirbord.

[2:12:24] Thank you.

[2:12:26] Did you memorize that?

[2:12:27] Yeah, can I go ahead and move for the H.U. U.S. D. School Board to vote to

[2:12:33] uh... wind a men the blah blah blah

[2:12:38] the

[2:12:38] re-acyanus from merger group

[2:12:41] twenty to merger group

[2:12:43] thirteen

[2:12:44] to get close to the second second over here do we have all those in favor say aye

[2:12:49] high

[2:12:50] any no votes or abstentions

[2:12:54] okay unanimously we are going to

[2:12:56] switch groups thank you

[2:12:59] correct

[2:12:59] So would you like me to notify the lead facilitator, and I'll also, with your permission,

[2:13:08] just give a courtesy to those superintendents, so they're aware.

[2:13:11] Absolutely, thank you.

[2:13:14] And we should let them we know that it's full of the trigger on that.

[2:13:17] And we'll let them, and you know that they knew we were going to have this conversation.

[2:13:22] They are interested in us, like we are interested in them.

[2:13:26] Whatever that means.

[2:13:28] purely platonicly, of course, I'm just gonna say it's like, sort of interesting.

[2:13:35] Wait, there we go,

[2:13:39] so we've done that thing, which was, that's one thing. Okay, next is

[2:13:44] first read of the E22 capitalization of assets, policy first read, did we, everyone read that?

[2:13:52] We just have to say if we read it, did everybody read it?

[2:13:55] Okay, there's no real motion for that, right, unless there's questions.

[2:14:02] Oh, give me a second to make pull that up.

[2:14:13] So let's see. It is a first read, but

[2:14:22] we should amend it so that it's a first reading and we should have an action knight that we should

[2:14:28] have an action item to approve a policy warning for it would be October at this point

[2:14:39] until we can get it in all the proper warnings and the proper papers, but it should be

[2:14:44] approved for warning for a policy hearing.

[2:14:47] So we need to amend the agenda.

[2:14:48] Again.

[2:14:52] Pam, are you listening?

[2:14:53] Remending the agenda again.

[2:14:54] You're going to get ready.

[2:14:56] to approve for warning D22 capitalization.

[2:15:01] I would like to move to amend the agenda to approve for wording the e20 to capitalization of assets policy.

[2:15:11] Do we have a second? Over here, all those in favor say aye, aye. Great. Okay, now.

[2:15:18] Now you have to.

[2:15:19] What do you mean, the agenda too, so I have to get that.

[2:15:22] Under action item to for a policy warning for each 22 capitalization of assets.

[2:15:31] 22.

[2:15:32] Do you have a man at the agenda for another action item after there are?

[2:15:36] Yes.

[2:15:38] Other.

[2:15:43] Okay.

[2:15:45] Now we're at the motion.

[2:15:49] Okay.

[2:15:50] We'll just.

[2:15:59] Good morning.

[2:16:01] Good morning.

[2:16:05] Good morning.

[2:16:08] So it will be October 14th.

[2:16:18] All right, do you want to make the motion sense?

[2:16:23] Okay, right.

[2:16:23] You might.

[2:16:24] I move it.

[2:16:25] We approve the policy.

[2:16:27] Okay.

[2:16:29] Move it.

[2:16:30] We approve policy.

[2:16:31] 22 for warning on October 14th.

[2:16:46] Now we're about.

[2:16:49] Okay.

[2:16:50] Okay.

[2:16:50] Okay, now we are moving on to the building use and vision and committees update and the proposed RFP.

[2:16:57] I hope everyone took a look.

[2:17:00] I know it was long.

[2:17:01] It was really good though and really detailed and I appreciate everyone's work on that.

[2:17:06] JB, do you want to have that comment?

[2:17:10] If that's a really great discussion this evening.

[2:17:16] on everything you do with the path forward and the situation we're in and we'll have a lot more to come.

[2:17:21] This, however, is not that time.

[2:17:24] This is just to take a look at this RFP.

[2:17:28] We had a committee meeting last week, I believe.

[2:17:31] We went through this draft RFP and made some changes.

[2:17:37] Went through it afterwards and suggested changes and we came up with,

[2:17:40] think what is a relatively solid and complete draft? It's still under legal review, Mike.

[2:17:48] No, it's good to go. Do you want to hear what he said about

[2:17:51] bid versus RFB?

[2:17:54] I don't change the language.

[2:17:56] We just changed the language. I think it was section 10.

[2:18:02] It was evaluation and awarding the RFP, so we just changed it rather. It needs to be

[2:18:09] We originally wrote it where there would be criteria and we would give points to each criteria and he

[2:18:16] recommended that we do it as a bid proposal that it's it's out for bid in terms of we have to take of the three the least

[2:18:28] At least was it was the actual sort of edge least in

[2:18:32] So, basically a little bit.

[2:18:34] The little bit.

[2:18:35] I mean, there's certain verbage in there.

[2:18:38] Essentially what he said is it's on the line between being a professional service

[2:18:42] and a bid service, because it's a defined package.

[2:18:47] And this is one where again, we had some really thoughtful public comment tonight and what

[2:18:51] I would say to the board is having been a superintendent who's been involved in a couple

[2:18:57] hundred million dollars worth of renovations, projects.

[2:19:00] This is one where if the board doesn't get an opinion on whether this is feasible you would potentially go to public meetings and people would say

[2:19:11] Well, how can you talk about this if you have no idea if it's even possible if you don't and you go and and say we're going to do an RFP and we're going to spend whatever it is for service

[2:19:21] Then people are going to say

[2:19:23] Why you spending money? Why didn't you so if this is one where I think it's it's a it's a no wins

[2:19:28] you're going to have criticism on either side, and I think if you're going to be responsible

[2:19:33] in pursuing that as an option, at least I think it makes sense to at least go through

[2:19:39] the process.

[2:19:39] The board can put out the RFP and see what the responses are and say, no, we're doing anything.

[2:19:51] Any questions?

[2:19:52] So the only thing that I really didn't like about the RFP is it didn't specifically address.

[2:19:56] I know we're all trying to get rid of sports. Nobody wants sports anymore. That costs too much money

[2:20:01] The fields

[2:20:04] They're owned and run by a wrecked apartment. They're not ours. So trust on

[2:20:10] All right, so they have to be scheduled

[2:20:12] Who's gonna use the fields when upkeep and all that stuff? I just wanted to see that as part of the proposal

[2:20:19] And how that would work if it's gonna be that area or completely different area at the site

[2:20:27] are you okay so there's a lot there so first of all the fields are owned by

[2:20:33] Kingsbury they're released by the wrecked district and then in turn whenever

[2:20:37] Metabella Valley Soccer Highland across where he is so yeah I mean it

[2:20:44] presents a great opportunity potentially I mean that being said you know we

[2:20:49] don't have you know our elementary students they go play soccer for Matt River

[2:20:54] They play for waterberry and waterberry plays with my river in the spring. I mean, that's, you know, we don't really have a elementary school athletic things.

[2:21:02] Well, what we need there are fields for playgrounds for green space. If there is an opportunity to work with direct district slash Kingsbury, that's great. I mean, I think it's potential very beneficial.

[2:21:16] Um, you know, there's other things about walking from the school to the field, and that's a whole separate thing.

[2:21:21] So I don't see that anticipated, if it's a relationship we can foster in the future, should we go down this road?

[2:21:26] No, that's great. That's exactly what I'm saying is that it is a separate entity.

[2:21:29] It is a completely separate thing that I want to make sure that in the RFP,

[2:21:34] that we are recognizing that that's completely separate.

[2:21:37] And that we still need those playground facilities.

[2:21:40] We still need those additional pieces of the puzzle, a baseball field, a soccer field,

[2:21:45] whatever it's going to be for that school.

[2:21:49] Playground, really.

[2:21:50] Playground, I don't think we need,

[2:21:52] I mean, unless I'm missing something,

[2:21:53] I don't think our other elementary schools have them.

[2:21:56] I think it's a great question,

[2:21:57] but I think that really it's the next,

[2:22:01] like if we're never gonna have a relationship

[2:22:03] with them if we never do the project.

[2:22:05] So it's a little bit stepped out.

[2:22:07] I'm not sure if anyone's really considering that we're...

[2:22:10] Well, if that's the case,

[2:22:12] I just want to make sure that part of the RFP

[2:22:15] is that they're planning that there is a recreational area for the kids, a playground, whatever

[2:22:21] it is.

[2:22:22] I don't care.

[2:22:23] I'm not saying that we have to look into Kingsbury at all.

[2:22:26] I don't want to do that.

[2:22:27] I want to just make sure that when they're...

[2:22:30] Going through this process as part of the planning phase is that we have a space for the kids.

[2:22:37] There is 7.03 acres around in and around it and part of it's a big parking lot, but there's there is seven eggs.

[2:22:46] But we also have to plan for school bus routes, turning around, parking for the teachers and staff. I mean, I'm there's a lot in that.

[2:22:53] All right, I don't mean to interrupt, but how many acres are at our current schools that are being used?

[2:23:01] They're right, they're different. They're all different. How many acres is that brook side outside? Yeah outside, not much.

[2:23:10] Right, so we're also talking about a flag lot to. I know, but I feel like this is getting a little like two Ashley's point.

[2:23:19] I think that those are very valid questions, Rob, and we want to make sure that there's

[2:23:24] enough space for the children to play outdoors and have those activities, but you look

[2:23:29] at WayTill, WayTill is very, very minimal space outside.

[2:23:36] So I feel like that might be getting a little bit off track of what this initial goal is,

[2:23:44] because we would make sure of course that there's space for,

[2:23:49] that it's a lot more kids too.

[2:23:51] So we need more space.

[2:23:51] Lisa has a comment that will help this.

[2:23:55] Just, but Lisa.

[2:24:00] It is mentioned under 4.6 concept designs

[2:24:03] outdoor learning and play.

[2:24:05] So that's part of the concept designs

[2:24:07] and some page four.

[2:24:10] So that is part of it.

[2:24:11] Amman Cindy.

[2:24:14] Yeah, I think that one of the things I really liked about

[2:24:16] this RFP is that it's very narrow so I think one of the concerns we heard from the public

[2:24:20] comment tonight was that why are you putting this out to to bid we've already done

[2:24:24] up on just stuff out there it's like this is pretty narrowly focused we're not going to

[2:24:28] get you know thirteen options come back from tropes colon so this isn't that scenario it's

[2:24:32] where it's we're looking at one site to see if it's feasible or not and it might not

[2:24:37] even be tropes colon again it just like this is very narrow is this feasible or not what are

[2:24:42] numbers like if it could work. Like it's very, it's very narrowly tailored for Cindy

[2:24:50] have a comment. Yeah if we really wanted to include the issue of recreational space on

[2:24:56] our motion at the end of our motion, right now the way it was written in our agenda, we could

[2:25:02] just add way to feel for use as an elementary school with appropriate recreational facility

[2:25:07] or if you want.

[2:25:12] Well, um, but first you, then you, then line.

[2:25:17] Go ahead.

[2:25:18] Change.

[2:25:19] I don't think this is the right RFP for this, but I want to flag that this is very specifically looking

[2:25:24] at the, you know, feasibility from the budgetary perspective.

[2:25:28] And I want to raise for the points in the, in the, in the beginning of the meeting,

[2:25:34] are we going to be looking to do other studies on the community implications of consolidation

[2:25:41] whether that's like a community meeting like there are ways to get at that in similar ways that this

[2:25:48] is one side of the coin right which is like will we save money and how impact students education

[2:25:54] but since we've heard from communities from a wreckfield perspective too I mean a lot of

[2:26:01] they don't own them, but there are red fields nearby, and the school is part of this.

[2:26:06] How is that impact?

[2:26:07] This probably isn't the RFP to put it in too, because it would be a different consultancy

[2:26:11] who looks into it, maybe we do it ourselves, but I just want to flag that.

[2:26:15] And I would just say too, from the perspective of at least that I've done construction work.

[2:26:21] We need to know what the board needs to know is not even the community piece of it.

[2:26:27] is can you take that building, which is an office building of about 32,000 square feet,

[2:26:32] and can you convert it to a school, is there space to add large scale, because for that

[2:26:38] size school, rough numbers, you're looking at probably a 60,000 square foot facility to

[2:26:43] accommodate that many students. So it really is a very technical RFP question of, is it possible

[2:26:50] to make this building into a school? Yes or no? There's a whole lot of points to it, but that's

[2:26:56] essence of what you're requesting. The following question from the community is going to be like,

[2:27:01] why are you asking this question specifically and not the other questions that are equally as valuable?

[2:27:06] And I would say the first one, you have to know whether it's even possible before you can have

[2:27:11] those other conversations. Okay.

[2:27:15] I think I want to what a flag as I agree with the comments that

[2:27:19] this isn't the right RFP to do it, but I do think that listening to the community, one of the things

[2:27:24] that I hear and experience as a really great thing about the Valley Schools is the amazing

[2:27:31] outdoor space that they have access to, the woods, the fields, and so I think that at

[2:27:40] some point we should be engaging the community in how could we make a school at this location

[2:27:46] have some of those same opportunities, but I don't think it's in this RV, but I just want

[2:27:51] to fly it.

[2:27:52] Thank you.

[2:27:52] Thank you for that line go ahead. Yeah, I mean when J.B. and I talked about this like the

[2:27:58] the homework that the building vision committee had was to establish if we could use the

[2:28:02] one 93 home farm way as a school and when we parsed this all down it was can we put a school there

[2:28:09] and if you look at four dot four evaluation of the central site it talks about can we put in fields

[2:28:14] can we what are the bus turn around is going to be like and that's that's what this is targeted for

[2:28:18] I would love to have that larger conversation about what the whole thing is going to look

[2:28:22] like at the end.

[2:28:23] But right now all we're doing tonight in the meeting is just approving this RFP to fair,

[2:28:27] if cab didn't even make sense because I think that's a big question because can we make

[2:28:32] it work?

[2:28:33] Is it economically feasible?

[2:28:34] So that's kind of my two cents.

[2:28:39] Yeah.

[2:28:39] I think the community question is a piece of it and I think that that's going to be done

[2:28:44] through community conversations and part of that iterative bidirectional process with

[2:28:50] communication, I think it's more to learn whether the community

[2:28:53] even likes this building, but I think to even know if it's feasible or not

[2:28:57] is a separate question. So I think they're like two separate things. But I

[2:29:00] think the other piece I noted is Theo and Jillian and I went to the

[2:29:05] Waterbury Select Board. They asked us to come talk to them last week. And

[2:29:09] the question we got asked several times in different ways was how much money

[2:29:13] will we save by moving there? Can we move there now? Can we move there? Like

[2:29:16] they just cared. Like I don't want to say that we didn't care about

[2:29:19] community in moderate, but the question we got asked at this like we're meeting from a couple of different people was how much money are you going to save

[2:29:24] He's like well, we don't have those numbers to give to you

[2:29:30] What I'm getting to I mean it as I said for the most part I've had nothing or heard nothing, but support

[2:29:35] But the question still lingers is what we still need to see the numbers. So I think you know

[2:29:39] What more pressure on Lisa? I just wanted to say that 4.6 alleviates my concerns. I'm good

[2:29:46] Well, that was nice. Thank you

[2:29:48] So, let's do we have more discussion on this before we take an action to vote on this RFP?

[2:30:00] One in Zoom, lying your hands still up, but you can take it down if you're done. Thank you. Okay. All right. So, we have a recommended motion on the proposed RFP, which I can read out right now. I think do you already have it on it? You got to build. Okay, cool. Great. Yep. We are making a motion for the bill.

[2:30:30] building, use and vision and committee recommends, I can't think of something's talking.

[2:30:37] Go

[2:30:37] head JB.

[2:30:40] I move at the board authorize the administration to advertise a proposal request

[2:30:44] for proposals for a feasibility study of the potential conversion of the cabinet, Creamy

[2:30:48] Creamy Cooperative Corporate Office Building, and Wade's field for use as an elementary school.

[2:30:55] Oh, second time. Okay, we have a second, so we don't need to make a full motion.

[2:31:00] I was saying actually you don't because that's being brought to you by a doly authorised committee of a board as a motion already you just need a second

[2:31:07] And then we don't although

[2:31:09] Okay, we do have a second

[2:31:11] I tried the second it I don't know if anybody heard me all right lying you can be second

[2:31:16] No, thank you. Okay, all those in favor. Please say aye

[2:31:21] All those against say no

[2:31:24] Any abstentions

[2:31:25] All right, we're moving ahead with the feasibility study

[2:31:28] ready RFP. Thank you.

[2:31:36] All right. We already did the, we already did, we added the action item,

[2:31:43] but then we voted on it, right, about E22. Yes. You did both parts. Did we have that?

[2:31:55] We need to do both as an action.

[2:32:00] We added it to the agenda.

[2:32:02] So both merge or study?

[2:32:05] Yes.

[2:32:06] I thought we'd disposed it on that.

[2:32:08] We just voted on adding them.

[2:32:11] I'm asking.

[2:32:12] We just voted to add the merger study group question and the E22.

[2:32:17] To the action items.

[2:32:18] We haven't taken those actions yet, right?

[2:32:21] I don't think we have.

[2:32:22] We didn't we just voted on the amendments

[2:32:31] agenda.

[2:32:38] Okay. So now I'm going to vote the warrant.

[2:32:41] Right.

[2:32:41] Action items vote.

[2:32:43] Go ahead.

[2:32:44] Warn it.

[2:32:45] The warrant.

[2:33:04] Okay. The second two action items are the ones we've added. Hold on.

[2:33:11] I can't talk if I can't listen to this.

[2:33:14] They are to change merger study groups for 20 to 13.

[2:33:18] And to have a first read of the E22 capitalization of assets policy on October 14th, do I have a motion?

[2:33:32] Second, over there, all those in favor say I, I, okay.

[2:33:38] So we, all those action items are in place.

[2:33:41] Our last item is the consent agenda, and that is going to include the warrants.

[2:33:52] Yeah, we did it, oh, we did it as well.

[2:33:56] Sorry.

[2:33:57] Oh, my god.

[2:33:58] I have, sorry.

[2:33:59] I did that wrong.

[2:34:00] Really bad at the process on certain things.

[2:34:03] The set.

[2:34:03] So the one we just voted on was the merger study group.

[2:34:06] The second one is the E22 capitalization of assets to be.

[2:34:11] have the first read on October 14th. Do I have a motion to warn it, to warn it, warning it,

[2:34:18] seconding, all those in favor say I. So that will be on the I. I. I. Okay. Not you. All right. So both

[2:34:29] of those will happen timely. The last is the consent to agenda. Lange, can you bring up the total

[2:34:35] for the since that's your line of business.

[2:34:38] Do you see the total because I don't,

[2:34:44] where is that?

[2:34:47] So we have a, we're gonna approve the meeting minutes

[2:34:50] from 826, 2026, and we're gonna approve the warrants

[2:34:55] in the amount of, what's that?

[2:34:58] 52,942 dollars, and the other one is Ford.

[2:35:04] Hold on, what?

[2:35:04] $1,667,2531.

[2:35:08] I think those are in the... I think they're right.

[2:35:11] So we got the one.

[2:35:13] Yeah, he's got you. Okay.

[2:35:16] Yep, he has it.

[2:35:18] Do I have a motion to accept the consent agenda from JB?

[2:35:22] Do I have a second? From Pam, all those in favor say aye.

[2:35:27] Okay.

[2:35:28] Yes.

[2:35:29] Students, you may go.

[2:35:32] Everyone else, we're going to go to an executive session

[2:35:34] and we need the motion.

[2:35:36] Okay, the link has gone out to board members in Zoom for our executive session and to Curtis.

[2:35:45] Alexina, thank you so much.

[2:35:46] We'll see you when you're back in the valley.

[2:35:48] I'm going to your town hall to get sworn in and then we'll get you on with email and all those other pieces.

[2:35:55] That's good.

[2:35:56] Yep, look her email from Dr. Mike.

[2:35:58] Okay, great. Have a good night.

[2:36:00] And thank you, you too, and welcome to the board.

[2:36:03] There's a suggested motion at the end of the agenda to someone want to read that to enter into executive session.

[2:36:12] All right.

[2:36:13] Go ahead, Emily.

[2:36:15] suggested motion to enter into executive session with all board members, Superintendent Dr. Mike and Director of Finance Lisa Esler for the purpose of discussing labor relations agreements with employees because premature public knowledge were clearly placed the public body or person involved at a substantial disadvantage.

HUUSD School Board Meeting 9-9-26

Transcript