[0:00] OK, well good afternoon everyone. Welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission Work Meeting, March 24th, 2026. In attendance we

[0:06] have city staff.

[0:11] And legal counsel. And then we are absence Commissioner font.

[0:16] And, Commissioner.

[0:17] Prince, but everybody else is here and ready to rock'n'roll.

[0:22] We had two items up for public hearing tonight, but one of them has been rescheduled.

[0:27] So we have one item that we're going to do anything with today and.

[0:32] That's Royal Holiday Hill stuff. So with that, John, if you want to dive us right in.

[0:36] I'm excited.

[0:38] Great. That's OK, I'll.

[0:40] Since we're.

[0:41] Skeleton crew tonight, else steer from here.

[0:45] Tonight is.

[0:47] Application for preliminary site plan review for Block A.

[0:51] At the Royal Holiday Hills.

[0:54] Development site.

[0:55] Tonight you'll be looking at a full site.

[0:58] Plan Development plan for blockade which includes.

[1:03] Two primary retail paths.

[1:06] Which will be for three.

[1:08] Uses.

[1:09] Two on the north side and one on the South side.

[1:11] Separated by a parking lot.

[1:14] Surface parking lot.

[1:17] The uses.

[1:18] For this site or in the open.

[1:20] District for the open land use zone, which is your again your most flexible.

[1:25] Highest heights, most amount of uses, that type of thing.

[1:29] Recently.

[1:31] An amendment to the SDMP was made.

[1:33] To allow for development right up for here on the corner.

[1:37] Previously it was a placeholder.

[1:40] Purely for surface parking.

[1:42] But we went through the applicant, went through an amendment to the STMP and created that carve out.

[1:48] Right up on that corner to eliminate the parking only.

[1:51] And put in place.

[1:52] Allowance for retail commercial pads.

[1:55] So tonight you'll be looking at the site layout civil side.

[1:58] Access utilities, that type of thing.

[2:01] Parking associated for all three restaurant.

[2:04] Retail uses.

[2:06] And your design parameters.

[2:10] Two items that staff is asking the Planning Commission to pay.

[2:14] Close attention to.

[2:17] As you look through the drawings and consider.

[2:21] Deliberation with the applicant.

[2:23] On specifics.

[2:25] Are the design.

[2:27] Chose the chosen designs of the two retail areas up on the north side.

[2:32] And a request for landscape.

[2:35] Modifications for parking lot.

[2:38] Landscaping.

[2:40] And I'll go through those.

[2:42] Maybe we'll start with the the landscaping first.

[2:45] But overall, again, let me see if I can find a drawing that actually.

[2:51] Is representative that I can talk?

[2:54] I think it's at the very bottom.

[2:57] If memory serves, to sit through all these really heavy duty.

[3:00] Civil drawings.

[3:03] Yeah, let's use one of these.

[3:09] So this is oriented on your right side is the North End of the lot.

[3:15] Highland Drive at the north at the top side of the the screen.

[3:20] So around the corner.

[3:22] From Highland Drive and Murray Holiday Rd. Will be a pretty large landscape buffer.

[3:27] Before you get to the retail pads.

[3:30] Right up on the.

[3:31] The the most absolute corner will be the sites project signage.

[3:36] With the buffer up against the backside of the building.

[3:40] And as you come up the hill up Murray Holiday Rd.

[3:43] Before you get to.

[3:44] Roast drive that that intersection.

[3:47] There's a large transformer there and then our.

[3:51] Historic marker There's a historic marker for the city.

[3:54] Which will remain in place and be.

[3:57] Is being retained.

[3:58] As.

[4:00] That has been in there forever.

[4:02] I don't know. I think it's been there for at least 25 years.

[4:08] And and then primarily as you come down into Royce Drive.

[4:11] These areas are.

[4:14] Exists that they're going to be modified.

[4:17] As you come into for entrance points into the parking lot.

[4:22] The landscaping for this is sort of representative in this picture, but there's another drawing in here that.

[4:30] Is most reflective as to what the applicant is looking for.

[4:36] We're getting into the block, the other side.

[4:45] Here we go.

[4:50] If you.

[4:51] Some of you may recall there was an amendment to the.

[4:55] Tree sustainability code.

[4:58] Which required.

[5:00] Additional landscaped islands.

[5:02] To be played in placed.

[5:04] Whenever you have a new parking lot.

[5:06] That's being constructed or an existing parking lot that's being rebuilt.

[5:11] And in this case, we're looking at a new parking lot.

[5:14] And which requires 10% of the area.

[5:18] Have these landscape islands placed in them.

[5:22] The code.

[5:23] Requires these landscape items. They have the trees in them and also.

[5:29] Some buffering requirements between the buildings and.

[5:32] Parking lots.

[5:34] At the end of that ordinance there is administrative relief request.

[5:38] Which the applicant can.

[5:40] Proposed to the Planning Commission or whoever the land use authority.

[5:43] Is that time?

[5:46] Basically allows for that use.

[5:48] Those landscaping requirements to be relocated in.

[5:52] And buffered around another area on the.

[5:54] On the site.

[5:55] So in this case, they're asking to remove the.

[5:59] The four landscape.

[6:00] Islands and increase the buffer size around Highland Drive where those trees.

[6:05] Could be additional trees can be placed.

[6:08] Sorry, can you say that?

[6:09] Say that one more time.

[6:11] So there's there's four landscape islands here. I'm not sure why this is highlighted.

[6:16] Try to get this off.

[6:17] Maybe that's just how the drawing.

[6:20] But right in here.

[6:21] These four islands need to have landscaping in them to break up the parking lot.

[6:26] Yes, the applicant can request to relocate that.

[6:30] Area of trees.

[6:32] To increase.

[6:34] A buffer.

[6:35] Around the site, so they're asking to increase.

[6:38] This buffer width between Highland Drive and the parking lot.

[6:42] To include.

[6:43] Additional tree planting areas.

[6:46] But it looks like the same number of trees on both of these.

[6:50] It would be assumed so though I would have the applicant would need to bring that.

[6:54] To the Commission for that request.

[6:57] And that's a bus stop that's right there, right?

[6:59] That's a bus stop, so all those cute circles running out into the middle of it are going to not be there.

[7:05] Practically, because buses are going to pull up.

[7:08] Destroy whatever branches grow out there until they reach yeah high enough.

[7:12] That 13 1/2 foot, I think those are London planes back that are planted right there.

[7:17] 13 1/2 feet.

[7:18] Above the travel light.

[7:20] Will have to be trimmed up.

[7:22] You can put in London planes.

[7:23] I think they're London. I think they're Sycam.

[7:27] Along there.

[7:28] No, they're there now.

[7:30] Yeah.

[7:31] On the West side.

[7:33] On the yeah east side of Highland drive as you come into the right hand turn lane as you go through the.

[7:40] The Street.

[7:41] Give a Street View of it on Google real quick. I thought all those were.

[7:45] Grass.

[7:47] Maybe I'm maybe my memories faded or these were newly planted ones.

[7:52] Newly OK.

[7:54] Some of them OK.

[8:05] See if this works.

[8:16] This is an earlier photo, but yeah.

[8:18] These don't have a Street View on the other side.

[8:24] Let's see if I can get. Oh, that's really old.

[8:30] That's where my ever made.

[8:31] Fading memory was like thinking of.

[8:34] Anyway, yeah, I'm pretty sure these are.

[8:36] All planted. These are all sycamores.

[8:43] Anyway, so those are the existing trees that are on.

[8:48] In this area, right along here.

[8:50] So.

[8:53] Staff recommends that the Planning Commission have moderate that discussion with the applicant as they bring.

[8:58] Request that administrative relief request to relocate.

[9:01] Those tree islands from the middle of the parking lot.

[9:04] To the perimeter of the site.

[9:11] And then you said there was an amendment to the SDMP that was made.

[9:17] Recently or.

[9:18] Last year, about this time.

[9:21] The site Development Master plan has a land use.

[9:26] Component to it.

[9:28] That shows what types of land uses are allowed.

[9:31] In certain locations.

[9:33] At the time that the SDMP was created.

[9:36] Macy's was still the primary anchor.

[9:39] And there was a requirement.

[9:42] Between the property owner and that tenant.

[9:44] To have parking lot.

[9:46] Be the only thing between them and the interaction in the intersection.

[9:50] So the parking lot was used in that.

[9:53] Land use is owned.

[9:54] To as a calculation for the minimum required parking stalls.

[9:59] So they took the area that.

[10:02] Where these two?

[10:03] This building pad is now and relocated it interior to the site opening up this.

[10:08] Absolute corner for development.

[10:11] That was your amendment last year.

[10:13] OK, umm.

[10:19] Let me see if I can bring that.

[10:21] Really quick.

[10:24] Just so that we are on the same page.

[10:31] I vaguely remember a year ago but.

[10:34] Thank you for clarifying that.

[10:50] OK, so we're looking at.

[11:05] This one.

[11:09] So this drawing was changed.

[11:10] So that.

[11:12] This whole.

[11:13] Block A was intended to be all surface parking.

[11:17] And the amendment?

[11:19] Modified it so only the core of the area was surface parking.

[11:23] And the parking stalls counted toward their.

[11:26] Minimum parking requirements.

[11:28] Releasing the north side and the South side of blockade for retail paths.

[11:40] And the remaining the difference between what was surface parking stalls there.

[11:45] Was relocated to.

[11:47] The new parking garage.

[11:50] That was reviewed and approved.

[11:52] By the Planning Commission.

[11:53] A few weeks ago.

[12:02] So with that.

[12:04] We do have.

[12:06] The TRC's looked at the site development plan for.

[12:11] Compliance to the actual master plan, but also site requirements for.

[12:15] Parking lot.

[12:16] Numbering and parking stall numbers and landscaping for parking lots itself.

[12:21] So that would be something that the Planning Commission needs to consider.

[12:25] Primarily.

[12:26] The other element.

[12:28] Two elements to this site would be the design.

[12:32] That's been chosen for.

[12:34] The North.

[12:36] Retail pads.

[12:40] From the staff's point of view.

[12:43] The chosen design that has been elected for this quarter.

[12:46] It kind of turns its back to the primary streets of Island Drive and Murray Holiday Rd.

[12:53] Having all the service entrances and utility uses.

[12:58] Up on island or Murray Holiday Rd. rather than.

[13:01] Trying to present itself to the corner as an entrance feature for the site.

[13:07] So at this point.

[13:08] The applicant does know of the.

[13:11] TRC's concerns.

[13:13] And at this we were waiting for a revised drawing.

[13:17] But has not received that yet in time for this meeting.

[13:21] So we can request that the Planning Commission delay or defer.

[13:26] The design approval.

[13:28] At least to have.

[13:29] Either in an interaction between the applicant and the staff.

[13:32] Or if you.

[13:34] Deemed necessary, Bring it back to the Planning Commission for review.

[13:37] But at this point.

[13:39] Staff believes that this design could use some tweaking.

[13:43] In order to come.

[13:44] Better in compliance with the design parameters of the SDMP and some of the other designs you've already seen previous.

[13:50] To this application.

[13:53] So if I'm reading between the lines, you're saying it's not quite done baking yet?

[13:58] That's my point of view, that's my opinion.

[14:01] OK.

[14:07] And then if you can just go back up to the landscape side of this, I mean.

[14:14] I wasn't a fan of it when it was all.

[14:16] Supposed to be parking to begin with.

[14:19] But.

[14:22] The relief of.

[14:24] That entire.

[14:26] Middle of the lot.

[14:28] Being just heat island next to.

[14:31] Two massive heat island roads and.

[14:34] A berm of grass next to a heat island building for me is.

[14:40] Kind of.

[14:41] Counterproductive to the point of why that ordinance was adjusted 10 years ago.

[14:49] Just just.

[14:49] You know, thinking through it out loud.

[14:53] Is that?

[14:55] Grass is everything, sort of shady green.

[14:57] Supposed to be grass.

[15:00] On the outsides.

[15:02] No, there's bark mulch around the.

[15:06] Perimeter.

[15:08] Where did my cursor go?

[15:10] Let's see.

[15:12] I think you had another landscape plan in here.

[15:14] Here, Chris.

[15:18] Yeah, bark mold you can hit. They're laying the bark mulch down now today.

[15:23] You can see that.

[15:26] It's not entirely grass.

[15:29] Is it any?

[15:31] Turf grass.

[15:33] I'm not. I'm not sure.

[15:39] Can I ask a couple of questions?

[15:42] The river.

[15:46] Common Creek.

[15:48] Comes along the edge and then does it go underneath the road, right?

[15:54] Where South of here? Let me bring up another.

[15:58] Actually it's before I see.

[16:00] Yeah, OK. So it doesn't, it doesn't get here.

[16:03] All right.

[16:05] Let's see if I can go up to this other image.

[16:13] Yeah, Big Conwood Creek dives under.

[16:16] Before or South of the intersection. The lit intersection.

[16:20] Oh, yes, I see. So it was the other block that I was seeing it on the edge now. Yeah, OK.

[16:28] And then?

[16:30] Somewhere in the packet, I don't remember.

[16:32] It said that.

[16:35] They're planning a.

[16:37] One parking space for every 100 square feet, which is.

[16:41] Twice the.

[16:42] Requirement. I think it's one parking spot for every 200 square feet is required.

[16:47] And they're already above the.

[16:48] Parking space.

[16:51] Minimum required for the entire lot. Collectively that's.

[16:54] Correct for this site, yes.

[16:58] So they could in theory.

[16:59] Make this parking lot smaller.

[17:04] In a variety of ways.

[17:06] And not impact any.

[17:08] They're not touching. They're not touching any of their.

[17:10] Minimums.

[17:11] Correct.

[17:14] So is this what the restaurants are asking for? Or is this what?

[17:18] When we get into this element of.

[17:20] You know, over parking.

[17:22] That usually is a tenant driven.

[17:25] Request and that you can be asked of the applicant for sure, yeah.

[17:29] It's going to be a busy parking lot.

[17:32] You're taking some of the circulation.

[17:34] Some of the things that will help the circulation away.

[17:38] Pedestrians will have to run through.

[17:43] Yeah, yeah, it's.

[17:45] I think it's.

[17:48] This.

[17:49] Corner isn't very walkable. You're not inviting people in from Highland, you're not inviting people in from every holiday.

[17:55] Particularly.

[17:57] People can't walk easily here because there are so many parking openings.

[18:04] When this was originally.

[18:05] Before it was amended, wasn't there like.

[18:07] Some kind of walk or something running?

[18:10] Through the.

[18:13] That would have been.

[18:14] The previous or was that the original mall plan?

[18:17] The.

[18:18] The one that was proposed for him, the amendment.

[18:21] Yes.

[18:25] So the sidewalk is not shown on the cyclone, right? It's outside of that.

[18:29] It is outside of that.

[18:30] Yeah.

[18:33] It's there on the island Dr. side.

[18:35] It's there on the Murray holiday roadside, but it's a partial.

[18:38] On the Royce drive.

[18:40] Interior.

[18:41] So that would be improved with new sidewalk.

[18:51] Additional questions about this one.

[18:56] I think.

[18:57] I mean this this is just unfolded over time, but.

[19:01] Part of the vision was to have.

[19:04] Mixed-use.

[19:06] To have a central Plaza.

[19:10] I feel like we're, you know, we're gradually seeing more and more of these blocks.

[19:14] And, umm.

[19:15] I'm not seeing a central Plaza.

[19:17] For this.

[19:18] Site and I felt like we were sort of waiting for it to appear it.

[19:22] Hasn't really appeared yet.

[19:24] And we're running out of spaces in which it would appear.

[19:28] And I also feel like.

[19:30] The mixed-use.

[19:31] Has been.

[19:33] Sadly neglected.

[19:36] This site has mixed-use but.

[19:38] If you zoom out far enough, everything's mixed-use, but if you zoom in on anyone part, it's not mixed-use. And so I feel like

[19:41] we're.

[19:45] Sort of the vision of this.

[19:47] Places being.

[19:49] Not quite fulfilled in the.

[19:52] The palette of things that have come forward.

[19:55] I don't know.

[19:56] I don't recall what did the TRC say about the site plan.

[20:01] As far as?

[20:02] Use and layout.

[20:04] It meets the standard there.

[20:07] It is a mixed-use.

[20:08] Zone, which in, you know, foresees.

[20:11] Mixture and quite a bit of height.

[20:14] So as far as leaving a lot on the table.

[20:17] They're leaving a lot on the table.

[20:20] Could we? I mean, could we say?

[20:21] Stack some apartments on top of here.

[20:26] I just have to review the application that's in front of me.

[20:30] Well, to me this is.

[20:32] Piece of property, because that's a cornerstone of this area.

[20:36] And really should be more.

[20:37] Finding that just something that is fairly generic.

[20:41] And my hope is that we can get the architecture worked out and.

[20:45] Make some of this more original looking and.

[20:48] You know, because this is really making statements for the project too.

[20:53] These kind of cornerstone intersections to me.

[20:56] Should be really dynamic.

[21:00] My hope is that.

[21:01] That's what happens.

[21:02] I don't disagree.

[21:05] And put the Plaza here.

[21:08] Right down the parking lot.

[21:09] Well, it sounds like we have lots of.

[21:12] Great inquiries for the applicant during the official meeting here SO.

[21:18] There's no other questions about it for the work meetings now though, we can definitely.

[21:24] And on that.

[21:25] And uh.

[21:27] Take a a 9 minute break until the top of the hour since you know, we got to make sure we're.

[21:32] Compliant.

[21:35] So with that, we'll end the work meeting.

[21:37] Take a quick recess.

[21:49] All right, well, whenever you're ready.

[21:51] OK, well good afternoon everyone. Welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission Work Meeting, March 24th, 2026. In attendance we

[21:57] have city staff.

[22:02] And legal counsel. And then we are absence Commissioner font.

[22:06] And, Commissioner.

[22:08] Prince, but everybody else is here and writing a rock'n'roll and.

[22:13] We had two items up for public hearing tonight, but one of them has been rescheduled.

[22:18] So we have one item that we're going to do anything with today and.

[22:23] That's Royal Holiday Hill stuff. So with that, John, if you want to dive us right in.

[22:27] I'm excited.

[22:29] Great.

[22:30] It's OK since we're.

[22:32] A skeleton crew tonight. I'll steer from here.

[22:36] Tonight is.

[22:38] Application for preliminary site plan review for Block A.

[22:42] At the Royal Holiday Hills.

[22:45] Development site.

[22:46] Tonight you'll be looking at a full site.

[22:49] Planned development plan for blockade which includes.

[22:54] Two primary retail paths.

[22:57] Which will be for three.

[22:59] Uses.

[23:00] Two on the north side and one on the South side.

[23:02] Separated by a parking lot.

[23:05] Surface parking lot.

[23:08] The uses.

[23:09] For this site or in the open.

[23:11] District for the open land use zone, which is your again your most flexible.

[23:16] Highest heights, most amount of uses, that type of thing.

[23:20] Recently, an amendment to the SDMP was made.

[23:24] To allow for development right up for here on the corner.

[23:28] Previously it was a placeholder.

[23:31] Surely for surface parking.

[23:33] But we went through the applicant, went through an amendment to the STMP and created that carve out.

[23:39] Right up on that corner to eliminate the parking only.

[23:42] And put in place 11.

[23:43] Allowance for retail commercial.

[23:46] That so tonight you'll be looking at the site layout civil.

[23:49] Access utilities, that type of thing.

[23:52] Parking associated for all three.

[23:55] Retail uses.

[23:57] And your design?

[24:00] Parameters.

[24:01] Two items that the staff is asking the Planning Commission to pay.

[24:05] Close attention to.

[24:08] As you look through the drawings and.

[24:12] Deliberation with the applicant.

[24:14] On specifics.

[24:16] Are the design.

[24:18] Chosen designs of the two retail areas on the north side.

[24:23] And a request for landscape.

[24:26] Modifications for parking lot.

[24:29] Landscaping.

[24:31] And I'll go through.

[24:33] Maybe we'll start with the.

[24:34] The landscaping first.

[24:36] But overall, again, let me see if I can find a.

[24:40] Drawing that actually.

[24:42] Is representative.

[24:45] I think it's at the very bottom.

[24:48] His memory serves sit throughout these really heavy duty.

[24:51] Civil drives.

[24:54] Yeah, let's let's use one of these.

[25:00] So.

[25:02] This is the oriented. On your right side is the North End of the wall.

[25:06] Island Drive at the door at the top side of the screen.

[25:11] So around the corner.

[25:13] Fraud and Highland Drive and Murray Holiday Rd. will be a pretty large landscape buffer.

[25:18] Before you get to the retail pads.

[25:21] Right up on the.

[25:23] The most absolute corner will be the sites project signage.

[25:27] With the buffer up against the backside of the building.

[25:31] And as you come up the hill at Murray Holiday Rd.

[25:34] Before you get to.

[25:35] Royce, Dr. That that intersection.

[25:38] There's a large transformer there and then.

[25:42] Historic marker There's a historic marker for the city.

[25:45] Which will remain in place and be.

[25:47] And is being retained.

[25:49] As.

[25:51] That has been there forever.

[25:53] I don't know. I think it's been there for at least 25 years.

[25:59] And then primarily as you come down into Royce Drive.

[26:02] These areas.

[26:05] Exist that they're going to be modified.

[26:08] As you come into for entrance points into the parking lot.

[26:13] The landscaping for this is sort of representative in this picture, but there's another drawing in here that.

[26:20] Is most reflective as to what the applicant is looking for.

[26:27] We're getting into the block, the other side.

[26:32] Here we go.

[26:41] If you some of you may recall, there was an amendment to.

[26:45] The tree sustainability code.

[26:49] Which required.

[26:51] Additional landscaped islands.

[26:53] To be play in placed.

[26:55] Whenever you have a new parking lot.

[26:57] That's being constructed or an existing parking lot that's being green.

[27:00] Built and in this case, we're looking at a new parking lot.

[27:05] And which requires 10% of the area.

[27:09] Have these landscape islands placed in them.

[27:13] The code requires these landscape items. They have the trees in them and also.

[27:20] Some buffering requirements between the buildings and.

[27:23] Parking lots.

[27:25] At the end of that ordinance there is administrative relief request.

[27:29] Which the applicant can.

[27:31] Proposed to the Planning Commission or whoever the land use authority.

[27:34] Is that time?

[27:37] Basically allows for that use.

[27:39] Those those landscaping requirements to be relocated in.

[27:43] And buffered around another area on the.

[27:45] On the site.

[27:46] So in this case, they're asking to remove the.

[27:50] The four landscape.

[27:51] Islands and increase the buffer size around Highland Drive where those trees.

[27:56] Could be additional trees can be placed.

[27:59] Sorry, please give it.

[28:00] Say that one more.

[28:02] So there's there's four landscape islands here. I'm not sure why it's highlighted.

[28:07] I try to get this off.

[28:08] Maybe that's just how the drawing is.

[28:11] But right in here.

[28:12] These four.

[28:13] Islands need to have landscaping in them to break up the parking lot.

[28:17] Yes.

[28:18] The applicant can request to relocate that.

[28:21] Area of trees.

[28:23] To increase.

[28:25] A buffer.

[28:26] Around the site, so they're asking to increase.

[28:29] This buffer width between Highland Drive and the parking lot.

[28:33] To include additional tree planting areas.

[28:37] But it looks like the same number of trees on both of these.

[28:41] It would be assumed so that I would.

[28:43] The applicant will need to bring that.

[28:45] To the Commission for that request.

[28:48] And that's a bus stop that's right there, right?

[28:50] That's a bus stop, so all those cute circles running out into the middle of it are going to not be there.

[28:56] Practically, because buses are going to pull up and.

[28:59] Destroy whatever branches grow out there until they reach high enough.

[29:03] 13 1/2 foot. I think those are London plains that are planted right there.

[29:08] 13 1/2 feet.

[29:09] Above the travel way.

[29:11] Will have to be trimmed up.

[29:13] You'll put in London points.

[29:14] I think they're London either Sycamore's.

[29:18] Along there.

[29:19] No, that are there now.

[29:21] Yeah, on the West side.

[29:24] On the yeah east side of Highland Drive as you come into the right hand, turn lane as you go.

[29:31] The Street.

[29:32] Give a Street View of it on Google real quick. I thought all those were.

[29:36] Breast. Maybe I'm.

[29:40] Maybe my memories fader are these newly planted ones.

[29:43] Billy OK.

[29:45] Some of them OK.

[29:56] See how this works?

[30:06] It was an earlier photo.

[30:08] But yeah, these.

[30:11] I don't have a Street View on the other side that's.

[30:15] Let's see if I can get that's really old.

[30:21] That's where my ever made.

[30:22] Fading memory was like thinking of.

[30:25] Anyway, yeah, I'm pretty sure these are.

[30:27] All planted. These are all sycamores.

[30:34] Anyway, so those are the existing trees that are on.

[30:39] In this area, right along here.

[30:41] So staff recommends that the Planning Commission have moderate that discussion with the applicant as they bring.

[30:49] Request that administrative relief request to relocate.

[30:52] Those tree islands from the middle of the parking lot.

[30:55] To the perimeter of the site.

[31:02] And then you said there was an amendment to the SDMP that was made.

[31:07] Recently or.

[31:09] Last year, about this time.

[31:12] The site Development Master plan has a land use.

[31:17] Component to it.

[31:19] That shows what types of land uses are allowed.

[31:22] In certain locations.

[31:24] At the time that the SDMP was created.

[31:27] Masons was still the primary anchor.

[31:30] And there was a requirement.

[31:33] Between the property owner and that tenant.

[31:35] To have.

[31:36] Parking lot.

[31:37] Be the only thing between them and the interaction in.

[31:41] So the parking lot.

[31:43] Was used in that.

[31:44] Land use zone.

[31:45] To in the calculation for the minimum required parking stalls.

[31:50] So they took the area that is now.

[31:53] Where these two?

[31:54] This building pad is now and relocated it into the site.

[31:58] Opening up this.

[31:59] Absolute corner for development.

[32:02] That was your amendment last year.

[32:04] OK.

[32:07] Let me see if I can bring that.

[32:13] Really quick.

[32:15] Just so that we're on the same page.

[32:22] I vaguely remember a year ago but.

[32:25] Thank you for clarifying that.

[32:41] OK, so we're looking at.

[32:56] This one.

[32:59] So this drawing was changed.

[33:01] So that.

[33:03] This whole block a.

[33:05] Was intended to be all surface parking.

[33:08] And in the amendment?

[33:10] Modified it so only the core of the area was surface parking.

[33:14] And the parking stall is counted toward their.

[33:17] Minimum parking requirements.

[33:19] Releasing the north side and the South side of blockade.

[33:23] Or retail pads.

[33:30] And the remaining the difference between what was.

[33:34] Surface parking stalls there.

[33:36] Was relocated to.

[33:38] The new parking garage.

[33:41] That was reviewed and approved by the Planning Commission.

[33:44] Few weeks ago.

[33:53] So with that.

[33:54] We do have.

[33:57] The TRC's looked at the the site development plan for.

[34:02] Compliance to the actual master plan, but also site requirements for.

[34:06] Parking lot.

[34:07] Numbering and parking stall numbers and landscaping for parking lots itself.

[34:12] So that would be something that the Planning Commission needs to consider.

[34:16] Primarily.

[34:17] The other element.

[34:19] Two elements to this site would be the design.

[34:23] That's been chosen for.

[34:25] The.

[34:27] Retail pads.

[34:30] I don't know from the staff's point of view.

[34:34] The chosen design that has been elected for this quarter.

[34:37] Yeah, it kind of turns its back to the primary streets, Island Drive and Murray Holiday Rd.

[34:44] Having all the service entrances and utility uses.

[34:49] Up on island.

[34:49] Murray Holiday Rd. rather than.

[34:52] Trying to present itself to the corner as a as a entrance feature for the site.

[34:58] So at this point.

[34:59] The applicant does know of the.

[35:02] TRC's concerns.

[35:04] And at this point we were waiting for a revised drawing.

[35:08] Has not received that yet.

[35:09] In time for this meeting.

[35:12] So we can request that the Planning Commission delay or defer.

[35:17] The design approval.

[35:18] At least to have.

[35:20] Either an interaction between the applicant and the staff.

[35:23] Or if you.

[35:25] Deemed necessary, Bring it back to the Planning Commission for review.

[35:28] But at this point.

[35:30] Staff believes that that this design could use some tweaking.

[35:34] In order to come.

[35:36] Better in compliance with the design parameters of the SDMP and some of the other designs you've already seen.

[35:40] Previous to this application.

[35:44] So if I'm reading between the lines, you're saying it's not quite done baking yet?

[35:49] That's my point of view. That's my opinion, yes.

[35:52] OK, umm.

[35:58] And then if you can just go back up to the landscape side of this, I mean.

[36:05] I wasn't a fan of it when it was all.

[36:07] Supposed to be parking to begin with.

[36:09] But.

[36:13] The relief of.

[36:15] That entire.

[36:17] Middle of the lot.

[36:19] Being just heat island next to.

[36:22] Two massive heat island roads.

[36:25] A berm of grass next to a heat island building for me is.

[36:31] Kind of counterproductive to the point of why that ordinance was adjusted 10 years ago.

[36:40] Just you know, you know.

[36:41] Thinking through it.

[36:44] Is that grass?

[36:46] Is everything sort of shady green?

[36:48] Supposed to be grass.

[36:51] On the outside.

[36:52] Yeah.

[36:54] Bark mulch around the.

[36:57] Perimeter.

[36:59] My cursor go.

[37:02] Let's see, I think you had another landscape plan in here.

[37:06] Press.

[37:09] Yeah, Barkmote you can get. They're laying the bark mulch now.

[37:12] Down now, today.

[37:14] You can see that.

[37:17] It's not entirely grass.

[37:20] Is there any?

[37:22] Turf press like.

[37:24] I'm not. I'm not sure.

[37:30] Can I ask a couple of questions?

[37:33] The river.

[37:37] Connell Creek.

[37:39] Comes along the edge and then does it go underneath the road, right?

[37:45] Where South of here? Let me bring up another.

[37:49] Actually, I see.

[37:51] Yeah, OK.

[37:52] So it doesn't. It doesn't get here.

[37:54] All right, let's see if I can go up to this other image.

[38:04] Yeah, Big Cottonwood Creek dives under.

[38:07] Before or South of the intersection. The lit intersection.

[38:11] Oh yes, so it was the other block.

[38:13] I was seeing it on the Internet. Yeah, OK.

[38:19] And then?

[38:21] Somewhere in the packet, I don't remember.

[38:23] It said that.

[38:25] They're planning a.

[38:28] One parking space for every 100 square feet, which is.

[38:32] Twice the requirement. I think it's one parking spot for every 200 square feet is required.

[38:38] And they're already above the.

[38:39] Parking space.

[38:42] Minimum required for the entire lot.

[38:44] Collectively, that's.

[38:45] Correct for this site, yes.

[38:49] So they could in theory.

[38:50] Make this parking lot smaller.

[38:55] In a variety place.

[38:56] And not impact?

[38:58] Any they're not touching. They're not touching any.

[39:01] Minimums. Umm.

[39:02] Correct.

[39:05] So is this what the restaurants are asking for? Or is this what?

[39:09] When we get into this element of.

[39:11] You know, over parking.

[39:13] That usually is a tenant.

[39:15] Driven request and that you can be asked of the applicant for sure.

[39:19] Yeah, it's going to be a busy parking lot.

[39:23] You're taking some of the circulation.

[39:25] One of the things that will help the circulation away.

[39:28] That's reason I'll have to run through the site.

[39:31] Because the cars don't.

[39:32] Talking. Slowing cars down.

[39:33] Yahoo.

[39:34] Yeah, it's.

[39:36] I think it's not very well this.

[39:40] Corner isn't very walkable. You're not inviting people in from Highland, you're not inviting people in from our holiday.

[39:46] Particularly.

[39:48] People can't walk easily here because there's so many parking openings.

[39:55] When this was originally.

[39:56] Before it was amended, wasn't there like.

[39:58] Some kind of walk or something running?

[40:01] Through the.

[40:04] That would have been.

[40:05] The previous was that the original mall plan?

[40:08] Yeah.

[40:09] One that was proposed for the.

[40:12] Yes.

[40:15] So the sidewalk is not shown on the side plan, right?

[40:18] It's outside of that.

[40:20] It is outside of that.

[40:21] You know.

[40:24] It's there on the island, right side.

[40:26] It's there on the Murray holiday roadside, but it's partial.

[40:29] On the Royce drive.

[40:31] Interior umm.

[40:32] So that would be improved with new sidewalks.

[40:42] Additional questions about this one.

[40:47] I think.

[40:48] I mean this this is just unfolded overtime, but.

[40:52] Part of the vision was to have.

[40:54] For mixed-use.

[40:57] To have a central.

[41:00] I feel like we're, you know, we're gradually seeing more and more of these blocks.

[41:04] And I'm not seeing a central Plaza.

[41:08] For this.

[41:09] Site and I felt like we were sort of reading for it to appear.

[41:13] Hasn't really appeared yet.

[41:15] And we're running out of spaces in which it would appear.

[41:19] And I also feel like.

[41:21] The mixed-use has been.

[41:24] Sadly neglected, I mean.

[41:27] Despite his anxious but.

[41:29] If you zoom out far enough, everything's mixed-use, but if you zoom in on anyone part, it's not fixed use and so I feel like

[41:32] we're.

[41:36] Through the vision of this.

[41:38] Places deal.

[41:40] Not quite fulfilled in the.

[41:43] The power of things that have come forward.

[41:46] I don't know.

[41:47] I don't know what did the TRC say about the site plan.

[41:52] As far as?

[41:53] Use and layout.

[41:55] It meets. It meets the standard.

[41:58] It is a mixed-use.

[41:59] Zone, which in, you know, foresees.

[42:02] Mixture and quite quite a bit of height.

[42:05] So as far as leaving a lot on the table.

[42:08] They're leaving a lot on the table.

[42:11] Could we? I mean, could we say?

[42:13] Stack some apartments on cover.

[42:16] I just have to review the application that's in front of me.

[42:21] Well, to me this is significant.

[42:23] Piece of property because.

[42:25] Cornerstone of this area.

[42:27] And really should be more defining than.

[42:30] Something that is currently generic.

[42:32] And my hope is that we can get the architecture worked out and.

[42:36] Make some of this more original looking and.

[42:39] You know, because this is really making statements for the project too.

[42:44] These these kind of cornerstone intersections.

[42:47] Should be really dynamic.

[42:52] That's what happens.

[42:53] I don't disagree.

[42:56] And put the Plaza here.

[42:58] Right down the parking lot.

[43:00] But it sounds like we have lots of.

[43:03] Great inquiries for the applicant during the official meeting here SO.

[43:09] There's no other questions about it for the work meetings.

[43:12] Now, though, we can definitely.

[43:15] And on that and.

[43:17] Take a a 9 minute break until the top of the hour since you know, we gotta make sure we're.

[43:23] Compliant.

[43:25] So with that, we'll end the work meeting and take a quick recess.

[43:54] So the other thing. Or they might redesign to.

[43:57] Both, yeah.

[43:59] The interior.

[44:00] Hallways.

[44:03] Fortified from the foundation straight up to the.

[44:06] This room.

[44:10] The configuration just better.

[44:17] So.

[44:23] The stairs downstairs.

[44:50] City Events.

[44:54] Usually go to work.

[45:01] Well, you don't pay really nice.

[45:07] Yeah.

[45:36] I.

[45:42] Yeah.

[45:52] That addition is a little bit newer.

[46:00] I think moving out also.

[46:03] Sorry, are they moving out also?

[46:06] Yeah.

[46:14] So.

[46:18] Questions for people who want to stay.

[47:01] Yeah, anytime.

[47:04] All right, welcome back, everyone. Welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission.

[47:10] Meeting March 24th, 2026.

[47:14] I do not believe we have any members of the public here tonight. So we are going other than the applicant of course.

[47:21] So we are going to omit the opening statement that we generally read for the public.

[47:26] And move right into the.

[47:29] Agenda we have, which again the Casper Cottage item one has been.

[47:34] Push back.

[47:35] Till our next meeting on April 14th.

[47:38] Which brings us to item number 2, which is the Royal Holiday Hills Block A&C.

[47:44] And with that, we'll invite city staff.

[47:47] Give us a brief reminder of what we covered in the work meeting.

[47:51] Thank you, Chair Roach.

[47:53] Yeah. Item 2 tonight is a request from the applicants for preliminary site plan review and approval.

[48:00] At the Royal How many hills development.

[48:03] Block A is located at the extreme corner of Marie Holiday Rd. in Highland Drive.

[48:10] Which is essentially the entry point.

[48:12] To holiday coming from.

[48:15] The North.

[48:16] And also from coming from the the West.

[48:19] And at this site, originally in the site development master plan, the entire block was intended to be.

[48:26] Surface parking lot.

[48:29] As the site.

[48:30] Begin began to develop with additional tenants and.

[48:34] With some tenants moving out.

[48:36] At the the block itself.

[48:38] Presented an opportunity to be refined as far as what?

[48:41] Primary land uses would be available at this corner.

[48:45] For the city and for the development itself.

[48:48] Which brings us to this.

[48:50] Point in time for review of Block A's site plan development and.

[48:55] And an organization of elements for.

[48:59] The Open.

[49:00] Land use his own.

[49:01] In the SDMP, the open land use zone is the.

[49:05] Essentially, the zoning scheme that allows for the most.

[49:08] Intense uses.

[49:10] And the highest heights for the SDMP.

[49:14] At this location.

[49:15] Commercial paths.

[49:17] Presented to the Planning Commission for review.

[49:20] With associated.

[49:22] Parking stall.

[49:23] Improvements.

[49:24] And internal circulation.

[49:28] Around this block.

[49:30] Most of the pedestrian improvements have been installed.

[49:34] Along Highland Drive and Murray Holiday Rd.

[49:37] The interior of Royce Drive.

[49:39] And Rodeo Lock Drive.

[49:41] Are yet to be installed.

[49:43] Are intended to be.

[49:46] Part of the development of this block.

[49:49] Upon approval.

[49:51] The TRC is reviewed.

[49:53] The application in terms of the.

[49:55] Both the site development master plan as far as use.

[49:58] And also city ordinance 13.8.

[50:01] 0.

[50:02] Sorry 08 for site development.

[50:05] Details uh.

[50:06] And civil site work.

[50:09] Primarily.

[50:10] At this point for preliminary review of the TRC is.

[50:13] Satisfied, an application would be brought to the Planning Commission for review.

[50:17] Based upon providing.

[50:20] The applicant providing the TRC.

[50:23] Site development.

[50:24] Details uh.

[50:26] That support a commercial site plan.

[50:29] Redevelopment plan.

[50:31] And that includes primarily.

[50:32] Associated parking stalls. The dumpster enclosures.

[50:36] Circulation plan.

[50:37] Land use architecture.

[50:40] Specifically, design.

[50:43] That's compatible with the SDMP and also the associated landscaping requirements.

[50:50] The TRC can.

[50:51] His recommending that the Planning Commission hold a discussion with the applicant as far as.

[50:57] The design of the buildings. Orientation of the buildings.

[51:01] To this primary corner.

[51:03] Murray Holiday Road and Highland Drive.

[51:05] And the request for administrative relief.

[51:11] Of landscaping requirements those.

[51:13] Requirements that were detailed in the work session.

[51:17] Primarily are centered around the landscape island.

[51:19] That are required with.

[51:21] Within a parking lot. A new parking lot.

[51:24] That would separate the stalls and create.

[51:28] Or eliminate.

[51:30] To it as much as much as possible in urban.

[51:34] Urban heat island effect.

[51:36] Creating shade within large, expansive parking lots.

[51:40] In your packet there are two different.

[51:43] Site plans. Landscape site plans. One would be one that's compliant with code, the other would be what the applicant is proposing

[51:47] for administrative relief.

[51:52] So that would be one of the elements that the TR.

[51:55] Is asking the Planning Commission to moderate a discussion around with the applicant.

[51:59] As they request that.

[52:00] Administrative.

[52:02] Exemption or modification?

[52:04] To landscape, parking lot, landscaping requirements.

[52:08] The other element that the TRC is recommending.

[52:12] The Planning Commission moderate discussion with the applicants over is the design of the buildings and the orientations of them.

[52:19] Primary of the site is.

[52:22] It's proposed as a pretty.

[52:24] Routine strip commercial situation with.

[52:28] The primary entrance is opening to the center of the lot.

[52:31] Focused on.

[52:32] Their access from the.

[52:34] Parking lot itself is surrounded by.

[52:36] Landscaping, uh.

[52:41] Generally, not necessarily the TRCS.

[52:44] Opinion, but my opinion from.

[52:47] And the design parameter.

[52:49] Is the orientation of pad A.

[52:52] As its primary location of the corner of Highland Drive and Murray Holiday Rd.

[52:57] Which essentially is turning the building itself, turning its back to that primary corner.

[53:03] This specific site lends itself to be.

[53:07] A primary entrance point to the city which?

[53:11] Also could provide for a more much more dramatic.

[53:14] Centerpiece situation, at least to the side.

[53:17] Is presenting itself to.

[53:19] Those two high.

[53:21] Use public streets.

[53:24] So yeah, there is.

[53:25] There are two.

[53:28] Design pages Within the document that proposed, the applicant is proposing for design parameters a single story.

[53:37] Retail.

[53:39] And the TRC is just asking the.

[53:42] Planning Commission to have.

[53:43] Have a discussion about those design?

[53:45] Characteristics with the applicant.

[53:49] I think.

[53:52] That about covers it.

[53:53] There is this is block a this as a reminder I forgot to mention in your work meeting.

[53:59] There is another element to this.

[54:02] Reapplication which includes.

[54:05] The design request.

[54:07] Which we never.

[54:08] Reviewed UH.

[54:10] When we were looking at block C.

[54:13] Block C are three different paths that you have approved.

[54:18] Previous Chase Bank Roth living our house.

[54:21] All those designs have been approved by the Planning Commission.

[54:25] Except for.

[54:27] The southernmost had for.

[54:30] The use that you see here on the screen.

[54:33] The applicants provided a landscape plan and a lighting plan, as well as a design.

[54:38] This building, which is primarily painted brick.

[54:42] With some extensive glass storefronts.

[54:46] And then specifically requesting the Planning Commission to also moderate discussion about architecture and design with the

[54:50] applicant for that site as well.

[54:54] See Blockade Site Development.

[54:57] Landscaping.

[54:58] And desire of building design.

[55:00] Block C Just building design for this.

[55:04] And the facing on.

[55:07] Blocks. He's already been decided.

[55:10] Just a pad and, you know, in the parking lot.

[55:13] The orientation of the building is not.

[55:15] Again, if you look at this.

[55:18] The elevations.

[55:21] It also faces the interior of the parking lot.

[55:26] With its primary door facing the north side of the parking lot and the service entrances on the perimeter.

[55:33] So you basically just have a wall facing the.

[55:36] Intersections.

[55:37] Yeah, I believe.

[55:40] This this wall would you'd be.

[55:43] Seeing as you drive into the site between Chase Bank and this building path.

[55:48] And then whatever landscaping would be.

[55:52] In between those two sides, which I think.

[55:55] I thought I included in here.

[55:57] Oh, it's this little drawing.

[56:01] So you do have a landscape plan that's been approved?

[56:04] Which dramatically adds some additional landscaping or on the backside.

[56:08] Which does buffer.

[56:10] From the public.

[56:12] And private.

[56:13] To buffer that wall.

[56:15] But again, we're backing up onto a primary intersection which.

[56:21] Does leave some elements on the table of what could possibly be?

[56:25] A country here.

[56:27] I don't know that that would be the Staffs report.

[56:32] OK. Any other questions for staff?

[56:36] All right, well, at this point let's have the applicant come up.

[56:45] Hi, Chris Longson, 4954.

[56:48] Free Dr. Holladay, UT.

[56:50] Also recognize Steve Peterson, one of them.

[56:51] Hers here and he'll be available for questions if you have any.

[56:55] Do you want me to address some of the questions you had in the work meeting?

[57:00] To help clarify.

[57:03] I think so.

[57:06] I'll talk louder.

[57:07] For the old guys around here, Brian.

[57:12] You're welcome to.

[57:13] Address anything you want from the work meeting. I don't think there's any members of the public here to address tonight, so.

[57:19] Great. So a couple of the questions that were raised and asked during that time. Let's talk about the landscaping plan first.

[57:26] So if you look at the 2.

[57:28] The two plans that we showed if the islands are without the islands.

[57:32] We you know your your landscaping that you're counting is is your is 10. You're you're 10 feet on the borders of your.

[57:39] Of your.

[57:40] Of your parking areas.

[57:41] And then the landscape islands, the requirements 7 1/2 percent.

[57:45] We have a.

[57:47] Coming off of the Creek over there, we have a boxed culvert through the big ditch.

[57:51] Company.

[57:53] That is conveying water all the way along the front of that parking lot.

[57:57] And if we?

[57:59] If we wanted to.

[58:00] Do a parking lot like a parking lot would normally be down and have the trees.

[58:05] Our parking would be elevated there on Highland Drive and that's what that drive right there shows and our landscaping, our 10

[58:09] foot buff would be allotted.

[58:13] Along that, but our parking would be much higher than Highland Drive to park there.

[58:18] What we're asking for is to do a wider landscape buffer there.

[58:23] Over that, uh.

[58:23] Area so the parking lot stays.

[58:26] Down lower.

[58:27] And provides a much bigger buffer from Highland Drive.

[58:30] And taking extra trees.

[58:33] The same amount of trees that we'd get if we put in those islands.

[58:37] To put in that parking lot and as we're talking about with planning much larger trees to create a bigger shade canopy.

[58:43] But the required.

[58:45] Heart, I mean acquired landscaping requirements 7 1/2 percent.

[58:49] And not including any of the landscaping.

[58:51] Out on the corners.

[58:53] Or around the buildings.

[58:54] We're at 19% in what we're proposing.

[58:57] Instead of 7 1/2 percent.

[58:59] So same number of trees that would go through your code.

[59:02] And we're providing 19%.

[59:06] Landscaping for the parking lot in just that specific area, not including all the other stuff that's around the buildings, which

[59:09] is.

[59:12] Could probably put us.

[59:14] You know, in the 30% range, but.

[59:16] Trying to get the same number of trees so we're meeting the requirement on the trees.

[59:20] And trying to get.

[59:23] A better landscaping plan.

[59:24] You brought up the issue, you know, Shouldn't we add more density here?

[59:28] We cannot build any more square footage in this. Per our Trader Joe's lease. This is what we're restricted to.

[59:34] So we've maxed out our square footage on this block.

[59:36] We are meeting the mixed-use requirements. This does meet the requirements of the SDMP.

[59:42] And that's, and that's what we're asking for, for approval. There's lots of stuff that goes on in the project this big.

[59:48] That, obviously everybody's not aware of.

[59:51] And we do have restrictions on how much we.

[59:53] We can do. We do agree with John and we've been working on. We're just not ready yet. The architects didn't get it to us in time.

[1:00:00] As a revised elevations on on block A.

[1:00:03] Through those buildings to address some of the concerns that the TRC has brought up.

[1:00:07] You just didn't get them done in time, so.

[1:00:10] You could either.

[1:00:11] Have us come back for that or delegate that to John?

[1:00:14] But we are working on that and we do not have an issue with, you know, working on those landscape drawings.

[1:00:20] So any other questions you have regarding any of those items that we talked about in the work meeting?

[1:00:27] I just have one quick.

[1:00:28] Clarification, yeah.

[1:00:30] So when you say.

[1:00:33] By relocating these trees off to.

[1:00:36] West End along Highland Drive there.

[1:00:40] This enables you to not raise the parking lot.

[1:00:43] Higher as well as we'll have a landscape berm over that instead of having parking.

[1:00:49] You know, bringing the parking up to a higher level to go there, if you can see in that.

[1:00:53] And the other drawing, John.

[1:00:54] So you're saying the entire parking lot would have to?

[1:00:57] Elevate, it was slow. They're not an entire parking lot, but which in order to get that parking to be functional, yes, we would

[1:01:03] have to raise that area. And we are required to have this many spells for our Trader Joe's thesis as well.

[1:01:10] So this is actually saving money by doing it this way.

[1:01:15] No, it's probably more money because of the the raised Berman and the greater.

[1:01:19] I mean.

[1:01:23] I don't believe you might, son.

[1:01:24] Commissioner Baird.

[1:01:26] Sorry, right. We still have to do that. We, I mean.

[1:01:29] Whether we put the landscaping in the middle of the parking lot or put it out here.

[1:01:32] It's the same amount of parking.

[1:01:34] So I don't know.

[1:01:35] Really saves us money. No, no, I'm not trying to.

[1:01:37] Change the parking calculation. I'm just saying that it may.

[1:01:40] Actually be cheaper to do it.

[1:01:43] With the additional landscaping on Highland Drive.

[1:01:45] So potentially we didn't look at it that way, but.

[1:01:50] OK. And as far as?

[1:01:53] Frontage or the?

[1:01:57] Face of the buildings facing into each other and basically snubbing the city with their backs to it.

[1:02:03] Any building.

[1:02:06] These type of restaurant buildings, they won't put their entrances out on the street where there's no street parking or quaint

[1:02:11] downtown. So we've got to face them that way, but we can do some additional.

[1:02:15] Architectural detailing. The services aren't on the back of the building. The services still come from the front.

[1:02:21] As far as where the trucks go and stuff, we're not putting truck docks or garbage or anything on on the public streets.

[1:02:27] But we do need to do some additional work on the.

[1:02:30] On elevations.

[1:02:32] Well, I think we're talking about restaurants with that, not.

[1:02:35] Be beneficial.

[1:02:37] For like.

[1:02:39] Glass dining area to look out onto Highland versus the parking lot.

[1:02:44] Also, their kitchens got to go back there since their customers are being received in the front and their kitchens are on the

[1:02:48] front of the building. So sure, yes, we can do.

[1:02:52] A better job?

[1:02:53] Of that, that's what we've been working.

[1:02:58] So this landscape firm along highlight drives.

[1:03:01] So we're on Highland Dr. How?

[1:03:03] How tall is the berm gonna be in the proposed that the berm right there exists today, So you can see about the height of it. I

[1:03:08] mean it doesn't have all the landscaping on top of it yet, but that's about the height of it we had.

[1:03:14] Minimal coverage there to meet the grades.

[1:03:17] To make that work, that old canal used to run up.

[1:03:21] Come off the Creek higher up.

[1:03:23] Come along the front of the Macy's building.

[1:03:25] And then turn West and go kind of almost.

[1:03:28] By the intersection.

[1:03:30] We had to hit that same point but in order to move it West.

[1:03:33] We had.

[1:03:34] Minimal, uh.

[1:03:35] Fall to do it with and that's why.

[1:03:37] It's at the height it is.

[1:03:39] But it's been that way since 2008.

[1:03:42] So yeah, Steve Peterson, 6147 S.

[1:03:50] Where the building is on the corner of Murray Holiday and Highland Drive.

[1:03:54] There's also going to be a large mining up sign there.

[1:03:57] And that's gonna.

[1:03:59] Block a portion of that.

[1:04:02] That built that.

[1:04:04] Particular building.

[1:04:05] And then the other thing that.

[1:04:08] We're trying to take into account is the sound of the noise of the.

[1:04:12] And so.

[1:04:16] We're trying to figure out how to buffer but.

[1:04:18] Yeah, this is.

[1:04:19] That sign will actually add a lot of.

[1:04:21] Dimension.

[1:04:24] Break up the building itself because it'll be in front of the.

[1:04:28] With landscaping.

[1:04:31] Yeah, we will bring that in for approval, but we've been.

[1:04:34] Working on that design is quite substantial and.

[1:04:37] Bit of a burning landscaping Arizona front there.

[1:04:39] That's why we have that.

[1:04:40] Offer of space.

[1:04:42] And Commissioner Guy, he wrote it.

[1:04:43] Comment up about the.

[1:04:45] Pedestrian connection.

[1:04:47] So you're kind of seeing this plan?

[1:04:48] In between this.

[1:04:51] This is an entry.

[1:04:53] Feature type thing. It's not going to have tenant signs or anything on it. This is more about architecture.

[1:04:58] But there'll be a gap in there. We're talking about putting a pedestrian connection so anybody comes from that main intersection.

[1:05:04] Rather than having to walk all the way around the buildings on either side.

[1:05:07] It would come through here and then come right into the front of the restaurants.

[1:05:11] So, but you'll see that we have to bring that still in because we don't have that approved yet.

[1:05:16] No problem.

[1:05:20] Other questions for the applicant, I have a concern. I'm just looking at this saying, OK, where are all your delivery trucks going

[1:05:23] to go?

[1:05:28] Parking Par.

[1:05:30] So they're going to park in the parking lot?

[1:05:32] They'll come. They'll come before things are open and and do their deliveries then.

[1:05:37] It's it's an urban type location similar, you know.

[1:05:40] On the other blocks, they're going to be parking on the street and doing their deliveries 8:00 in the morning or.

[1:05:47] What time?

[1:05:49] I do not know the answer that question. I know the.

[1:05:52] Harman has serious problem with.

[1:05:56] The truck noise on the.

[1:05:58] Unfortunately, we don't have any residents real close to here other than in our.

[1:06:02] Apartments. Yeah. Well, I can hear the noise from your construction in my house, I think those big trucks in that beeping sound.

[1:06:10] Well, drive us.

[1:06:13] It's too early in the morning, but.

[1:06:15] OK, so we have a lot before it's in use.

[1:06:19] OK. Yeah. I mean there is a noise ordinance that you can always.

[1:06:23] Talk to the deliveries about.

[1:06:25] I must profess. I'm a little concerned that we're.

[1:06:29] In the last week of March and we have plans from December.

[1:06:33] It's almost like.

[1:06:36] All these questions probably could have been addressed.

[1:06:39] Sooner in the process.

[1:06:41] And then I'm not inclined today to say yes.

[1:06:44] Because I think.

[1:06:46] You acknowledge that there's.

[1:06:47] Additional work that needs to be done.

[1:06:50] And then I think child's people need a chance to.

[1:06:53] Talk through their concerns if they have them but.

[1:06:57] I always get frustrated on the Planning Commission on it.

[1:07:00] You know, that's three, three more months since this original plan.

[1:07:05] Doesn't look like anything's changed.

[1:07:07] Yeah, we've been working on a lot of stuff and I mean what you see before you tonight.

[1:07:12] The only thing we're not?

[1:07:13] Us getting back ready to.

[1:07:15] Present is is the changes in the TRC's asked on the buildings as far as the parking and the landscaping.

[1:07:21] We're showing you what.

[1:07:22] You know we've worked.

[1:07:23] Been working on to change that we're asking for approval on.

[1:07:26] So we would, you know.

[1:07:28] We would request an approval for everything except.

[1:07:30] The elevations that we will continue to work on so.

[1:07:35] I could have a quick.

[1:07:36] Question just in regards to your dumpster spells they seem.

[1:07:42] Pretty spaced out from the building like I don't.

[1:07:44] Looking at this, I don't even know which dumpster stall belongs to which pad.

[1:07:49] But it feels like that's a long way for trash to go and hope.

[1:07:52] That none spills in a big parking lot.

[1:07:57] Commissioner Rosette, that's intentional, so the garbage is not next to the restaurants and their patios.

[1:08:03] That's always a big, big debate. Where do you put the put the garbage? And so we put it remote.

[1:08:07] So that they're, you know.

[1:08:09] Hauling their garbage away from.

[1:08:11] Where all the people are sitting and gathering.

[1:08:14] And they're, you know, not having to deal with those spells.

[1:08:18] And because it's food uses, these things get dumped every day.

[1:08:21] Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. Like I understand that aspect of like it just.

[1:08:24] And I mean.

[1:08:26] I'm no design expert or landscape architect but like when I think about like.

[1:08:31] You know the tree ordinance and the requirements around parking lots like.

[1:08:36] You know, right in the middle of the parking lot where the heat island would be.

[1:08:40] You know, dumpsters and trees on the side type of thing.

[1:08:44] Potentially would mitigate both of those.

[1:08:47] I think on the dumpsters there's been a lot of.

[1:08:51] Thought and it was based off of.

[1:08:54] Many of the other properties.

[1:08:56] Woodbury's own.

[1:08:57] And Jeff Liberty.

[1:08:59] Personally was involved in.

[1:09:01] Placing those originally or.

[1:09:03] Closer to Royce and you said that that.

[1:09:05] Is really not the right place.

[1:09:08] They're placed back in here where they wouldn't be noticed to be landscaping.

[1:09:12] The you know U shape.

[1:09:16] Block enclosure. So the.

[1:09:19] Have minimal impact and then.

[1:09:21] There's a smell issue and there's.

[1:09:23] So there's a they were basing off of.

[1:09:26] Many many years of experience from other properties how they came up with this.

[1:09:30] Layout and so it was actually.

[1:09:33] Internally.

[1:09:35] Talked about quite a bit.

[1:09:36] You know, very question we.

[1:09:38] Spent a lot of time on.

[1:09:40] Try to optimize the best.

[1:09:42] Yeah, and the trees that are being proposed to be put in these park strip pads there, do you know what those are?

[1:09:50] It's it's on the plan. I don't recall which ones they are. They're.

[1:09:53] One of the recommended trees in the SDMP.

[1:09:56] OK. And the reason I ask for that is I'm thinking like you know from.

[1:10:00] I'm a garbage truck dumpster guy. Here I am with my giant 20 foot high truck or however big those Dang things are. And so you

[1:10:06] know, how much of this finagling are they doing to pull things around versus just like that'll do and I'm just going to bust off a

[1:10:12] couple branches of these trees trying to get to them type of thing.

[1:10:18] Yeah, these are. These are designed to have pull out dumpsters on them. They're not the big.

[1:10:22] You know, compactor type things that would raise up.

[1:10:25] In the air like that, so.

[1:10:26] Gotcha.

[1:10:29] All right. Any other questions for the?

[1:10:32] I'm sorry, I just have a clarification.

[1:10:36] He said no additional square footage is allowed in this block.

[1:10:42] For the footprint or for?

[1:10:45] I mean if you added layers.

[1:10:47] If we added what?

[1:10:48] If you added stories, for example, yeah, we're not allowed any additional square footage.

[1:10:53] As Trader Joe said so.

[1:10:54] Yep, you're strong.

[1:10:56] Yeah, and they're also requiring what, the minimum or the maximum number of?

[1:11:01] They're requiring, though, that minimum number of parking stalls.

[1:11:06] Can't be bigger.

[1:11:08] Because they'd have to have more parking in.

[1:11:10] Trader Joe's won't let him have more parking.

[1:11:13] Why is Trader Joe's turning?

[1:11:16] The judgment that you make business decisions if you want them. That's right.

[1:11:21] I get there's this.

[1:11:23] This balancing of.

[1:11:24] How do you get people to come be tenants? But.

[1:11:28] I think it's.

[1:11:32] Will there be any?

[1:11:34] Restaurant signage visible from either.

[1:11:37] Murray Holiday Road or Highland Drive on the building's own way.

[1:11:41] OK.

[1:11:43] And on the back of the buildings just.

[1:11:45] I'll have signage on the back on the buildings, yes.

[1:11:49] Yep, I have visions. Is there any additional signage?

[1:11:52] Other than what she has approved as far as the yeah, I was just concerned because we ran to that from the city I was at with.

[1:11:59] They build all those things and then the first thing they want to do six months later is.

[1:12:03] Put signage on the road they didn't want to face.

[1:12:07] They wanted the signage to be bigger. They'll see some of this.

[1:12:10] Elevations have the signage on the building.

[1:12:13] They'll require that.

[1:12:15] So it's not going to be a.

[1:12:16] A big picture of Post Malone's face on the side of raising kings like we have in our neighboring city.

[1:12:24] We can only hold.

[1:12:29] OK.

[1:12:30] Any other questions for applicants at this time?

[1:12:32] All right. We'll go ahead and have you sit down. Thanks so much.

[1:12:36] This is a public hearing item. We'll go ahead and open that. Anyone here that's not the applicant that wants to make.

[1:12:42] Statement 123. Didn't think so. OK, we'll close the public hearing.

[1:12:47] Commissioners.

[1:12:50] So I have a question for staff.

[1:12:53] With the sensitivity, with the architecture to the streets.

[1:12:58] Is there anything the staff can recommend that maybe?

[1:13:02] Would consider as kind of a treatment that we could.

[1:13:05] Utilize on all these buildings that are facing these major roads.

[1:13:10] I mean to me I don't want to see everything facing in because.

[1:13:13] As you drive by, you'd like to have a project that.

[1:13:17] I mean, to me this is really the statement project.

[1:13:20] And it should.

[1:13:21] Reflect that in the architecture of landscaping.

[1:13:25] And.

[1:13:26] How it sits within the city.

[1:13:28] So to me, I'm curious if staff.

[1:13:30] Has any recommendations or direction?

[1:13:33] Yeah, we have had a conversation with the applicant about what's all aspects could be added to this elevation that I have up on

[1:13:36] the screen.

[1:13:42] Because this is.

[1:13:43] Back of house.

[1:13:44] Of the use that's being provided.

[1:13:46] There really is. It's impossible to have any entrances or any features there.

[1:13:51] It's the applicant's intent to comp.

[1:13:53] Find both uses in one into one building, so a pass through.

[1:13:57] Woodwork.

[1:13:59] To get access.

[1:14:01] In between the two buildings.

[1:14:03] But because the applicant is looking to have these buildings.

[1:14:06] Merged together into one that is.

[1:14:08] Necessarily, that's not an option. That would be something we could break up.

[1:14:12] These long facades.

[1:14:13] Of monotonous materials that go up Murray Holiday Rd.

[1:14:18] Then obviously you could have glass panes.

[1:14:21] Transparent.

[1:14:23] Window panes that could be looking inside.

[1:14:25] The site is to see activity. You see that I'm hoping.

[1:14:29] You see the dining room, you see those other elements, but.

[1:14:31] Again, because this is backup house, you're probably not going to have that.

[1:14:35] Activity. Uh.

[1:14:36] On a sight line, you'll end up with faux windows that.

[1:14:40] You see all over the place.

[1:14:43] So with those sort of ideas in mind, from the staff's point of view.

[1:14:47] We're anxious to see what the applicant can come back with.

[1:14:51] As far as breaking up the.

[1:14:53] Facade going on Marie Holiday.

[1:14:56] For the corner feature rather than, you know.

[1:14:59] What's being proposed is like a monolith.

[1:15:02] Type block situation.

[1:15:05] There could we've given them some.

[1:15:08] Other examples of corner type buildings that aren't necessarily.

[1:15:12] You know, entrance features or.

[1:15:15] They don't have any storefronts, they just have.

[1:15:18] It's just an architectural feature that.

[1:15:20] Promotes.

[1:15:22] The use of the building and the location of it being on a corner of two major streets.

[1:15:27] Creating some interest in some thematic.

[1:15:30] Tones where the entire site itself.

[1:15:32] So those that were some examples given the applicant and again we're waiting.

[1:15:36] To see what they've come back with.

[1:15:39] So I forgot to ask the applicant, maybe you can answer this.

[1:15:42] Is this proposed architecture?

[1:15:44] From the.

[1:15:45] Corporate companies or is this?

[1:15:47] The project's design.

[1:15:48] That you're offering to.

[1:15:51] Client or both?

[1:15:54] So I'm not sure if you answered or.

[1:15:57] Went through what kind of materials we're talking about.

[1:16:03] Like the dark is that, Yeah. Is that a wood or a full wood?

[1:16:07] It is a faux wood.

[1:16:09] Composite material if I remember right.

[1:16:13] It's up here.

[1:16:17] Almost looks like standing seam. Sorry, painted.

[1:16:20] Send that board and then.

[1:16:21] Type paneling.

[1:16:23] This is what's going to be closed.

[1:16:25] Is that within the SDM?

[1:16:30] Yeah, it is.

[1:16:36] So some of the elements of the SDMP that you can look at.

[1:16:40] As far as?

[1:16:42] Getting a feel as to what is.

[1:16:44] Being envisioned.

[1:16:45] Let me go back up here to the staff report. There's a snippet.

[1:16:49] They included in your.

[1:16:51] In the report itself.

[1:16:54] And basically it talks about breaking up long monotonous walls using.

[1:16:59] Singular materials long.

[1:17:01] Are large areas.

[1:17:05] And, well, that's a horrible.

[1:17:08] But umm.

[1:17:14] This last.

[1:17:16] Paragraph this sentence right here.

[1:17:18] Scale and mass of larger buildings to be softened. This is throughout the use.

[1:17:21] Through the use of articulation.

[1:17:23] And different building materials so.

[1:17:25] Specific materials are not.

[1:17:27] Listed, but that's. This definitely breaks up.

[1:17:30] For the interior of the site.

[1:17:32] Large expanses, facades with multiple different types of interest.

[1:17:37] Which is good.

[1:17:38] Except that it's not really necessarily used on the backside.

[1:17:44] Well, I think that large.

[1:17:46] Wall that comes out at the corner that it was black.

[1:17:49] I think that's a good start and maybe that can.

[1:17:52] Start to.

[1:17:55] Create the luck you're hoping for. Or at least we're hoping for.

[1:18:04] So I'm going to get back to that because you could almost have a fake wall.

[1:18:08] It comes away from the building.

[1:18:11] There's some creative things on that.

[1:18:13] And then that behind it doesn't need to necessarily.

[1:18:16] It can be more functional to the user inside.

[1:18:22] Yeah, agreed.

[1:18:23] Yes. Umm.

[1:18:24] Well this this element up here.

[1:18:26] If they can have some articulation to it or maybe.

[1:18:30] An additional crown element that's kind of you can kind of seem.

[1:18:33] See as a theme throughout the rest of the site.

[1:18:36] It could be enhanced.

[1:18:38] I think there needs to be a color band that kind of breaks it up.

[1:18:41] Horizontally. Umm.

[1:18:43] That's a lot of mass with one color.

[1:18:52] And I think the detailing they're trying to show disappears because of its all one color.

[1:18:57] In the 2D drawing or yes, in these drawings for sure.

[1:19:00] Yeah, I don't know how far out the.

[1:19:06] The little boards are sticking out, I mean.

[1:19:08] You'd hope that they stick out far enough to create a nice pattern with the shading and this.

[1:19:13] The shadows.

[1:19:17] Those reverse parent channel signs do.

[1:19:20] Probably maybe a foot and 1/2.

[1:19:24] Have some distance set off the facade, but I'm looking at them.

[1:19:27] The pieces that are.

[1:19:28] Running up and down along the panels.

[1:19:32] Yeah, the sort of it kind of loses the detail in those songs.

[1:19:38] Looks like about 3 inches.

[1:19:43] Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. I should have asked.

[1:19:50] So the architects are trying to tie in this with the building, the big Macy's buildings behind it. It's got the black facade with

[1:19:54] the vertical fins on.

[1:19:58] So it's time those two architectures together so they are prominent.

[1:20:02] Like they are on the other building, so it's just tying that all together.

[1:20:05] I like that. I just think that.

[1:20:07] It's a pretty substantial role for that being the only thing.

[1:20:11] So I'm wondering if we shouldn't.

[1:20:13] John, I don't know if that's something, but.

[1:20:15] We got comment, we'll take it back to the architects because to me I don't think it goes.

[1:20:19] So far away from the original design.

[1:20:22] But I think it adds an element that.

[1:20:24] Just pushes it to the direction I think.

[1:20:27] You're hoping for, yeah.

[1:20:29] Both of us, I guess.

[1:20:30] Check.

[1:20:40] OK, well.

[1:20:42] So it looks like there's no.

[1:20:44] Landscaping in front of the buildings, Just around the buildings, right? So the front of the building.

[1:20:52] I see in the one it has a little shrub that.

[1:20:56] On the self pad.

[1:21:01] OK, so there's no trees in the sidewalk or anything?

[1:21:13] That could potentially be. I didn't think about that before, but that could potentially be.

[1:21:19] A part of this request for administrative relief is.

[1:21:22] Using this wide width.

[1:21:24] Most of this area is not.

[1:21:25] Ada accessible.

[1:21:27] Tree wells could be easily.

[1:21:30] Put in place here, but that's just my opinion.

[1:21:33] Well, I think landscaping can be a real enhancement to the architecture.

[1:21:37] Maybe the architect?

[1:21:39] Terrific.

[1:21:40] Landscaping can fill in.

[1:21:42] Sometimes.

[1:21:46] Well, that's going to be a very busy place, isn't it?

[1:21:49] 3 restaurants.

[1:21:54] And so they're they're no.

[1:21:56] That we've seen two different drawings of trees here.

[1:21:59] The request for relief on this is to put more of them along Highland, right?

[1:22:05] Rather than having the tree islands, yes.

[1:22:08] And then when we go down and look at the next rendering, it shows.

[1:22:13] No tree for Long Island. Yeah, I wouldn't use this as the landscaping plan. I would use this as sort of concept layout.

[1:22:19] Because it's the drawing you need to refer to.

[1:22:32] I guess along that same line is.

[1:22:35] Thinking now on in terms of the.

[1:22:38] The landscaping in the trees.

[1:22:41] Instead of pushing it out towards highland.

[1:22:44] Could we think about pushing some of it in front of?

[1:22:48] Around the outdoor.

[1:22:50] Restaurant space, I mean.

[1:22:52] I think I.

[1:22:54] I think I would love to have these restaurants this close to my house.

[1:22:58] And I would love to have outdoor restaurants. I don't know that I want to sit in the parking lot.

[1:23:04] I'll be parked in one of those handicapped spots, because that's what.

[1:23:07] My son is.

[1:23:10] And.

[1:23:12] It seems to me that if there could be more of a buffer there.

[1:23:15] With some landscaping.

[1:23:17] Maybe I'd be more comfortable with that than.

[1:23:21] Pushing more out onto highlight myself.

[1:23:26] That's I try not to.

[1:23:28] Overarchitect.

[1:23:29] These things, right?

[1:23:31] You can ask your architects. I fail at that on a miserable basis.

[1:23:35] But at the same time I.

[1:23:38] It just seems to me that.

[1:23:40] A little more.

[1:23:41] I mean it.

[1:23:44] I know it's the way the rendering is done. It looks like that's a lovely space and all those people are having a good time there.

[1:23:51] But they're also sitting right in front of every car.

[1:23:54] There, and if we could just get a little buffer there, that would be wonderful.

[1:23:59] You wouldn't see him. I feel like the car was.

[1:24:01] Parking lots? Exactly.

[1:24:03] They're not gonna be that many people sitting in an empty parking lot, I guarantee it.

[1:24:09] That's just the wait line. This is Commissioner Roach, that.

[1:24:12] The one thing that stands out to me when I'm looking at the.

[1:24:16] Task on the landscape plan as someone who.

[1:24:19] Participated, I don't even remember how many hours and trying to.

[1:24:23] Come up with an appropriate draft and.

[1:24:26] Resolution to the.

[1:24:28] Free ordinance around parking lot.

[1:24:32] This is exactly why.

[1:24:34] Right, like this was what we talked about 10 years ago of like, OK, someone's gonna.

[1:24:40] You know, pave over something or redo a parking structure and you know.

[1:24:45] We want to be Tree City and we want to have more green space and reduce heat islands and.

[1:24:51] Now it's in front of us and it's like, Oh well.

[1:24:54] That doesn't work because, you know, we.

[1:24:57] Not angle the parking lot so much or have more buffer to.

[1:25:01] Keep the parking lot from facing a busy Rd. I don't know.

[1:25:05] But for me, it's like the intent of why that ordinance was put through in the first place.

[1:25:13] Was to try and break up.

[1:25:14] Heavy heat islands.

[1:25:16] And we keep talking about, oh, this is the corner of the city. This is the entry to the city. And it's like, do we want a giant

[1:25:20] parking lot?

[1:25:24] To be there.

[1:25:27] You know, there's plenty of big parking. They have a three story parking structure.

[1:25:31] A handful of trees around it that we just approved a couple weeks ago.

[1:25:35] Right, so.

[1:25:37] For me it.

[1:25:38] Feels like, you know, I think you can live without 6 stalls or 10 stalls and.

[1:25:43] Put in a few more trees and I guarantee you in the middle of summer everyone's going to be parking next to them.

[1:25:50] Right, because we don't go out of our way to find the sunniest spot when it's 100° outside.

[1:25:58] That's just my perspective on the landscaping side as far as the.

[1:26:02] Building structures I mean.

[1:26:03] Almost feels like this should have been continued until.

[1:26:06] Everything was in place.

[1:26:09] Because what I keep hearing back and forth from the applicant in the city is like, oh, they're going to bring us more stuff than.

[1:26:15] Why do we even have this in front of us? Is my immediate thought to that.

[1:26:19] Might bring us stuff that's done and ready to approve because as it stands just right now, looking at what we have in front of us,

[1:26:22] I'm not inclined to say yes.

[1:26:26] And it sounds like there's still a bunch of question marks in there too.

[1:26:30] That's just my opinion though.

[1:26:32] And we are a Commission, so I wasn't going to shut my mouth.

[1:26:35] And check in with you guys.

[1:26:37] Well, you did. You embrace the thought with me about.

[1:26:41] Because I also don't.

[1:26:43] One job in the parking lot, surrounded by trees.

[1:26:46] If you're going to have a walkway.

[1:26:48] Connecting the two buildings.

[1:26:51] Why couldn't the trees?

[1:26:53] And decided.

[1:26:55] It becomes more of a feature.

[1:26:57] What's The Walking machine in?

[1:26:58] I I think there's some options in that.

[1:27:04] I get from an economic standpoint and using the land.

[1:27:09] That you know why this?

[1:27:11] Is a good idea, but.

[1:27:13] I think there's some tweaking that would fix.

[1:27:16] The concerns that we have.

[1:27:19] And again.

[1:27:21] The back of the building if there's nothing there, trees, shrubs or anything else.

[1:27:26] Just make graphs and a brick in the wall.

[1:27:32] South Jordan.

[1:27:34] He felt a huge complex out there.

[1:27:36] And you have to drive around inside to find what's there because it's got outward facing.

[1:27:41] Walls and all that and.

[1:27:44] People on Bangor aren't sure what city they're in because all they see is back walls.

[1:27:53] I have a question for staff and I think I know.

[1:27:56] The answer to this?

[1:27:57] John but.

[1:27:58] I think that the thing that's.

[1:28:01] That's struggling for me is not.

[1:28:04] Just this site, even though it feels like a really key site.

[1:28:07] In some ways, this was unavoidable.

[1:28:09] But the process of approving things has been a rolling process where we don't have full context.

[1:28:15] And I appreciate that there's this complicated.

[1:28:20] You know ballet that.

[1:28:22] The client the applicant is doing where they have to be able to.

[1:28:27] Promised things to some of the tenants and that influences other parts of it, however.

[1:28:32] It does feel like.

[1:28:34] If we had known six months ago.

[1:28:36] That Trader Joe's would have certain requirements for this block.

[1:28:40] Then I would have asked for different things on different walks.

[1:28:43] We can't retroactively go back and change things, however I do feel like.

[1:28:49] Part of having an SDMP is having a vision for the entire plot.

[1:28:52] And the balance has been thrown off.

[1:28:54] By having a bit of a.

[1:28:55] You know, a rolling.

[1:28:58] Process. I don't know how to address that at this point because we've approved most blocks, however.

[1:29:04] When I look at the overall thing.

[1:29:06] I feel mostly.

[1:29:08] A vague sense of disappointment. It feels lopsided.

[1:29:13] And I I don't know how to address that at this point.

[1:29:15] I don't know if there's anything we can do to address it, however.

[1:29:18] If there were things we would have known.

[1:29:19] I think we would have addressed things differently.

[1:29:22] Yeah, as.

[1:29:24] All the sites that you've been reviewing and approving have been permitted uses.

[1:29:29] And not conditional, it really wouldn't be a way to bring them back.

[1:29:32] Yeah. However, going forward we can.

[1:29:34] Request the applicant to provide.

[1:29:37] Context.

[1:29:38] You know how is this?

[1:29:40] This site Intermingle Interact.

[1:29:42] React to other blocks from within the site itself.

[1:29:48] Especially as we start talking about.

[1:29:52] How we're getting from this parking lot to Trader Joe's site.

[1:29:55] With Cross and.

[1:29:56] Something like that, yeah. Or, or how we expect people to walk from the.

[1:30:00] Large parking structure in the center which I'm a huge fan of not having the giant parking lot here and I.

[1:30:06] Love the way you're parking, I think that's great.

[1:30:08] But are we expecting people to walk from here to there? It's only a.

[1:30:12] 1200 foot walk.

[1:30:14] But it's actually not very conducive to walking.

[1:30:17] We also put.

[1:30:18] All the residential way over there.

[1:30:20] That the the the mixed-use.

[1:30:23] I kept waiting to see it.

[1:30:24] And now we're at the end of.

[1:30:25] Mostly the end of the process.

[1:30:28] And I think if we had known that this is what the rest of.

[1:30:31] The the site would look like.

[1:30:33] We might have pushed back a little bit more about isolating residential so much from the other uses because.

[1:30:39] It doesn't.

[1:30:40] Feel like a mixed-use anymore which is one of the huge visions.

[1:30:44] Of the SDMP.

[1:30:49] So.

[1:30:50] And that affects, you know.

[1:30:51] Walkability and.

[1:30:54] How we think that each space will be used. It's just been hard to understand the broad context.

[1:30:59] Piece by piece.

[1:31:03] Yeah, when you have 57 acres that's broken up in the blocks like this that have to come up.

[1:31:09] You know as the on the on the applicants timeline.

[1:31:12] Yeah.

[1:31:13] To be fair, I I also don't think it's reasonable to say.

[1:31:17] You can't promise any of these spaces till we have the whole vision. I don't think that would have been.

[1:31:21] Reasonable either.

[1:31:23] I just feel like we've been sort of.

[1:31:25] Whack a mole in until it's hard to.

[1:31:29] You know, hard to get a sense of the whole.

[1:31:33] Hard to know what they're reasonable.

[1:31:36] I don't know how we would have done it differently.

[1:31:39] But now that we have done much of it.

[1:31:41] It's it's troubling.

[1:31:46] The old saying Hindsight's 2020. Yeah, my glasses. Damn, you're so good.

[1:31:53] Mr. Barrett, you've been pretty quiet. Thoughts.

[1:31:56] Now I think what everybody is saying I agree with because.

[1:32:00] I don't know if this is what was intended when the original master plan.

[1:32:04] Came through this seems to be kind of going in a direction that.

[1:32:08] You didn't need to have it in a master plan because it's just a normal, prototypical kind of site.

[1:32:15] I was hoping that we could do a little more creativity that.

[1:32:19] Could help maybe how the site?

[1:32:22] Not only how the parking lot.

[1:32:24] Lays out but also.

[1:32:25] For those using the parking lot.

[1:32:30] The heat islands to me are extreme and it's.

[1:32:32] This doesn't really help.

[1:32:36] I mean it.

[1:32:37] It is exactly what corporate restaurants want.

[1:32:40] And I get that. I'm not trying to fight you guys on that at all. I'm just trying to make it.

[1:32:45] Something that to me.

[1:32:47] Kind of signifies something that's special.

[1:32:50] And in hopes of.

[1:32:52] We did a project that really.

[1:32:54] Set that standard and makes it look.

[1:32:57] Like the ones we can always point to, you know, and just.

[1:33:00] How we did this?

[1:33:01] I'm kind of at a loss because I don't know how we can.

[1:33:04] Dictate the architecture.

[1:33:06] How we can dictate the landscaping? I think the.

[1:33:09] The Commission has certainly shared.

[1:33:11] That we would like to see these things, but I'm not sure if we have that much authority.

[1:33:16] So I expect those things. I mean to me.

[1:33:19] You're quite a ways down the road here.

[1:33:22] And after all this work has been done.

[1:33:25] Now to ask the Commission to come in and say.

[1:33:27] Well, uh.

[1:33:28] Trying to fix it when you can.

[1:33:31] I think it's kind of a little difficult in what?

[1:33:35] The other commissioners were saying.

[1:33:37] I completely agree with.

[1:33:39] I would like to see the finished project and maybe then we can kind of.

[1:33:43] Fine tune it.

[1:33:45] My dad always warned me, don't build the ship while you're sailing it because you're going to just be bailing water all the time.

[1:33:51] So, umm.

[1:33:52] This seems to be kind of in that thing. I don't, I don't, I'm not trying to make.

[1:33:56] Light of this I'm.

[1:33:57] Seriously hoping that this.

[1:33:59] Corner could be a real significant.

[1:34:02] Corner. I'm not exactly sure if it's demonstrating that.

[1:34:06] Through this proposal.

[1:34:07] Yeah. And historically, you know, as we bring.

[1:34:10] Majority of these site plans to the Planning Commission.

[1:34:14] They're previous to this was a process of a concept and then a preliminary final.

[1:34:20] By state statute, we now have to show you.

[1:34:23] Sort of everything at once and have you ask.

[1:34:26] Ask the question conceptually. Does this meet the?

[1:34:29] But also ask the applicant to bring forth a lot of civil site work.

[1:34:34] That's included in these other drawings.

[1:34:36] That does. Yeah, it does present.

[1:34:38] Life safety does prevent the minimum standards of access and fire etc.

[1:34:43] But through the site development.

[1:34:45] Plan. There is some site design on that.

[1:34:47] There's still a point of the Planning Commission.

[1:34:50] Youth is, you know, pretty much.

[1:34:53] You know, design standards. We can.

[1:34:56] It's very esoteric because it's just described in, you know.

[1:34:59] Verbose language.

[1:35:00] And not really giving you a very specific elements, there is some design palettes to choose from.

[1:35:07] But having.

[1:35:08] The staff to work with applicant, I think we can come up with something.

[1:35:12] That would be pleasing to the Planning Commission, but.

[1:35:16] I am not adverse to bringing that type of element back.

[1:35:19] But it's through the site development requirements of your chapter 13 you can move some things around.

[1:35:25] Even though they are proposed.

[1:35:34] I mean, I don't know.

[1:35:35] Like what does that mean? Do we call for a vote? And.

[1:35:39] Sounds like we know which direction that's going to go and then they just.

[1:35:42] Bring it back again.

[1:35:44] Well, I think what you can do. I mean, I've got some.

[1:35:47] Notes that I've been taking.

[1:35:49] At least making a motion for.

[1:35:51] The preliminary.

[1:35:53] Layout for use Access life safety utilities.

[1:35:57] Those types of things you know are working.

[1:35:59] They're they're there and they can be provided.

[1:36:02] How the landscaping and how it interacts with.

[1:36:05] The parking lot and how it.

[1:36:07] May interact with the buildings and building design.

[1:36:10] Can either be brought back to you as a final?

[1:36:13] Site plan approval at your next meeting.

[1:36:16] Or obviously deferred to staff but.

[1:36:19] Making a motion at least allowing those elements to to set the grading and civil site work.

[1:36:25] As a benchmark that the applicants can.

[1:36:28] Work off of.

[1:36:29] At least can get that element in stat step rolling.

[1:36:33] And then everything else of the accoutrement and it could be added to that site can be brought back.

[1:36:37] As a refined element to the Planning Commission at your next meeting.

[1:36:42] You can type all that up so I can just read it as a motion real quick.

[1:36:46] Can I ask you a quick question?

[1:36:48] How many parking spaces do we lose if we take?

[1:36:50] Trees out and put the landscaping on island.

[1:36:53] 18.

[1:36:54] OK.

[1:37:04] How many parking spaces do we use?

[1:37:06] Yeah, because of the trees.

[1:37:08] In the parking areas.

[1:37:10] I'm just wondering if there's a loss.

[1:37:12] Up 618.

[1:37:15] Yeah, for those.

[1:37:17] Four islands.

[1:37:19] But don't.

[1:37:20] Oh, there wouldn't be additional on high.

[1:37:23] His memory serves. Aren't those islands supposed to be about a snow width?

[1:37:28] But no, they're they're a bit bigger with the with the gutters around them, they would be at least a stone and 1/2.

[1:37:41] I agree with the chair, I think that it's not ready to have a vote.

[1:37:46] I mean, I think the direction we've tried to give.

[1:37:49] Has been helpful, but I'm not sure if I want to act on half of this.

[1:37:53] Maybe we can.

[1:37:55] Well, the more complete concept or whatever.

[1:37:59] Whatever I'm calling you.

[1:38:05] So I was concerned.

[1:38:07] And maybe applicant must address this.

[1:38:12] When I drove by on the way to this meeting.

[1:38:15] I mean, obviously the the clearing of that parking lot area and the leveling is well underway.

[1:38:22] At that end is a two week delay.

[1:38:25] Going to stop the next thing.

[1:38:27] After you get that love up, I mean.

[1:38:31] Yeah, I have issued a demo permit for that site.

[1:38:34] Just to clear the old asphalt out.

[1:38:37] Yeah. Yeah. Well, John, John suggested that you wanted to type up if you could approve tonight the utilities and so forth to keep

[1:38:41] that work going so we don't delay it.

[1:38:46] You have that demo permit, but we don't.

[1:38:48] You know, we're right on the.

[1:38:49] Hills to meet our time.

[1:38:51] You know requirements, so to come back.

[1:38:54] Presents many different ideas on the architecture which we're already in process, and then if you want us to tweak some of the

[1:38:56] landscaping.

[1:39:00] But if tonight you could just.

[1:39:02] Give us the approval on the base.

[1:39:04] Civil drains and so forth. That would be super helpful to us. Two weeks we really hurt us so.

[1:39:10] And then we can, if you want us to come back next Planning Commission meeting with new elevations and some great landscape plans,

[1:39:13] we're happy to do that.

[1:39:19] And can I clarify that that means?

[1:39:22] That we are approving.

[1:39:23] Three restaurants in a big parking lot.

[1:39:25] If we approve the if we approve the preliminary with the Civil.

[1:39:28] That's what we're.

[1:39:32] And remember that the SDMP.

[1:39:34] Is this exact layout that it's already been approved?

[1:39:37] These pads and that parking lot.

[1:39:39] Already approved.

[1:39:41] It's in accordance with the STP.

[1:39:44] So so this this section of your in within your packet.

[1:39:48] That starts on this cover page would be.

[1:39:50] The civil site work package.

[1:39:53] This would be the.

[1:39:55] Design of.

[1:39:57] Setting the elevations of the pads.

[1:39:59] Setting the elevations of the parking lot.

[1:40:01] The Drive Isles.

[1:40:04] At least showing labour and those utilities would be located.

[1:40:08] That would be the extent of the approval.

[1:40:10] And then the final would be bringing back a finalized landscaping plan and then the building designs.

[1:40:16] And with approving that, assuming that.

[1:40:18] A relief is not given.

[1:40:20] Is that gonna mess up anything they're doing?

[1:40:23] As far as like.

[1:40:25] Gotta have those islands in there you can't extend that berm out to make up for.

[1:40:31] I wouldn't think so.

[1:40:33] OK.

[1:40:36] I just don't want to try and put it back.

[1:40:37] You know what I mean? Like I don't want to do it all and then have to reverse course.

[1:40:42] I mean, the safest bet would be.

[1:40:44] Following Commissioner Barrett's.

[1:40:47] Suggestion.

[1:40:50] And just to make things.

[1:40:51] Super easy because.

[1:40:53] Unless someone else wants to give it a go.

[1:40:56] Is it possible?

[1:40:57] Council, you might have to chime in on this.

[1:40:59] Could you just make the suggested motion as it's been presented and then we could just.

[1:41:04] Copycat there.

[1:41:08] So we're not stumbling all over trying to wordsmith it.

[1:41:12] As staff, I would be uncomfortable doing that, I have written.

[1:41:15] A suggestion sort of framework around that?

[1:41:22] There's two motions here.

[1:41:24] One for block A, one for C.

[1:41:27] We haven't talked about the building design in Block C Yeah, I mean, that's The thing is we're still waiting on building.

[1:41:33] Words as far as orientation, right?

[1:41:36] The orientation would be the only thing for block C lot C.

[1:41:42] As.

[1:41:46] So there's there is there is an option here to continue?

[1:41:50] And then you have the basic framework.

[1:41:52] These are suggested findings.

[1:41:55] That you could limit it to 1-2 and three.

[1:41:58] The proposal complies with review standards of 1308.

[1:42:02] Provided evidence that all uses can be serviced by life safety utilities.

[1:42:06] Development details and related components comply with MU.

[1:42:10] Man the SDMP and master plan but then.

[1:42:13] You would continue four or five.

[1:42:17] And not use this condition.

[1:42:19] Of approval.

[1:42:20] That would follow the same for block C loss.

[1:42:23] You know Luxi.

[1:42:25] OK, I'll give this a whirl. Let's see.

[1:42:28] This is Chair Roach. I'd like to make a motion to approve the preliminary site development.

[1:42:34] And building design for Block A of the Royal Holiday Hills development located in the RMU zone located at 4825 S Royce Drive.

[1:42:44] With final site plan approvals to be delegated to staff.

[1:42:48] With the findings of.

[1:42:51] 1-2 and three.

[1:42:53] In the packet.

[1:42:55] However, continuing 4:00 and 5:00.

[1:43:00] To come back.

[1:43:01] And also extending that to block C.

[1:43:07] You want to prove plexi or?

[1:43:09] Continue.

[1:43:11] Approved.

[1:43:13] And continue to.

[1:43:14] Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, continued blocks. See.

[1:43:18] This is Commissioner Baron, I second that.

[1:43:20] OK. Did I get everything in there right, John?

[1:43:23] With the exception. I'm sorry with the final sentence there.

[1:43:27] Continuing final site plan to staff.

[1:43:30] Do you want, do you want that come back to Planning Commissioner or leave that with staff Little.

[1:43:34] Do we wanna trust John or do we wanna see this again?

[1:43:39] I'm asking.

[1:43:41] Before I amend the motion, I think it counts back as.

[1:43:43] OK, so yeah, OK, so amend my motion strike final site plan approvals and.

[1:43:52] Have uh.

[1:43:53] Final site plan come back to Planning Commission.

[1:43:57] There's the amended motion. Do I have a second?

[1:44:00] I second it. OK, Commissioner Barron. Seconds.

[1:44:03] All right, everybody's agreed we did it right. I hope so. Here we go, Commissioner Cunningham.

[1:44:08] Commissioner Trippin.

[1:44:09] Aye, Mr. Gone.

[1:44:13] No, OK, Commissioner Barrett, I.

[1:44:16] And chair Roosevelt's eyes so with.

[1:44:19] 4:00 to 1:00.

[1:44:20] That part of it.

[1:44:22] We'll move forward on the other part we look forward to seeing.

[1:44:27] Hopefully with some.

[1:44:28] Modifications.

[1:44:30] OK, perfect.

[1:44:32] And that takes us to the balance of our meeting. We don't have any other items. So with that, thank you, Commissioners, I'll make

[1:44:36] a motion to adjourn. All in favor.

[1:44:39] Anybody wants to stay?

Planning Commission Meeting

Agenda

Transcript