[0:00] The April 6, but a sub-good meeting meeting at 6.53 p.m. in accordance with MGL Chapter 38, Section 20F, this meeting is being recorded by the Mansfield

[0:09] Gable Access Channel. It could be broadcasted at various times over several days. The law permits members of the public to make their own recordings of this meeting,

[0:17] after giving notice of the chair, and subject to certain restrictions. If anyone in the audience intends to make a video or audio recording of this meeting, I would ask that you please inform me at this time.

[0:26] your cooperation is appreciated.

[0:29] Seeing none.

[0:30] The first item is discussion and consideration to approve the March 16th meeting minutes.

[0:36] So quickly I open the school committee because we have.

[0:39] Oh yes, of course.

[0:40] I'm going to call to order the school committee meeting.

[0:47] Thank you.

[0:48] All right.

[0:48] So discussion and consideration to approve the March 16th, but it's a committee meeting minutes.

[0:54] Make a motion to approve the March 16th budget sub minutes.

[0:57] I'll second.

[0:59] Any discussion?

[1:01] All those in favor?

[1:02] All right.

[1:03] Thank you.

[1:04] I'll be staying.

[1:06] You're abstaining.

[1:07] Should I abstaining too, I wasn't there?

[1:09] I don't think you have to.

[1:10] You don't have to.

[1:11] Okay.

[1:12] Motion passes.

[1:14] Okay.

[1:14] Next item is discussion on the fiscal year 27 budget for town and schools for the town meeting.

[1:22] The select board not approved the override option or option 2 to go on to the ballot.

[1:29] So we just wanted to confirm the amounts and the budgets that are going forward for

[1:33] Article 1 and Article 2, and that they are not different than what was presented to the

[1:39] boards.

[1:44] We had our budget hearing and approved the budget that we had discussed.

[1:51] Is that correct?

[1:54] You approved the budget that was presented.

[1:58] So including the FDA reductions, the reductions,

[2:01] all the programatics that you have talked about.

[2:03] So nothing has changed, though, so we're voting on,

[2:05] OK, thank you any discussions?

[2:08] Questions?

[2:10] OK, just want to make a comment.

[2:12] I put my thoughts together for a second.

[2:13] OK.

[2:14] I just want to level set.

[2:16] Last year, Zilberrad was $500,000 in it failed.

[2:20] We have a $2 million deficit this year.

[2:23] But this year all the contracts with major unions are up, and if we don't make any structural

[2:27] changes, we'll be stuck with three years.

[2:29] So if we basically just cut, but don't change anything structured as driving it, we're

[2:35] going to be in the same boat next year.

[2:37] And December we wanted to get together with the school committee, talk about the health

[2:40] care on the raises, follow it up, and meeting in March, we're just unable to get on the

[2:46] calendar to do it.

[2:48] Review of the prior contracts indicate that health care percentage is written into the

[2:52] contract and wanted to meet me and address those.

[2:57] Because the select board, we're looking at everything.

[2:59] We're looking at the percentages that the town pays.

[3:01] We're looking at different plans.

[3:03] We're looking at other cost savings measures,

[3:05] like the mitigation fund, et cetera.

[3:08] We're looking to find a permanent solution to the problem.

[3:11] I'm not just throwing it up.

[3:12] To me, the easy answer is just give it to the people

[3:15] to say, well, hey, you guys voted or you didn't vote it.

[3:20] But it doesn't change the structural issues that we face.

[3:23] Towns people are going to ask what sacrifice that we make or actions that we took to impact the budget.

[3:30] If we're going to ask them to throw in 300 or 400 hours more for an override, what have we done

[3:36] to make sure that we do not face this next year and we've been the cost curve.

[3:40] If last year's 500K was passed, would still have a million five deficit.

[3:44] Correct?

[3:45] Can I just support, I don't think it was $500,000.

[3:47] I think it was $2 million last year.

[3:48] No last year was 500,000 dollars.

[3:51] No, no.

[3:51] No.

[3:51] Much higher.

[3:54] There's 2.8, I think, with the crash V2, then.

[3:58] With that.

[3:59] If it's, oh, you're right.

[4:00] If the chimney in override was proposed in past,

[4:02] which will face over 1.5 million dollar deficit,

[4:04] mainly kicking down the road.

[4:06] The kicking came down.

[4:06] The road is not fixed the problem.

[4:08] You know, for members of one in override,

[4:10] addressing health care,

[4:11] at least it's going to have some type of impact

[4:13] on long-term costs that our town faces.

[4:17] The feedback that we've received has been at least a feedback I've received and we all live in our own echo chambers has been three to one against the override

[4:26] Right now basically 85% of the override is salary and benefits and we all we've eaten the expense piece to that that 15% is nothing else

[4:35] You know, you can only cut back on so many rooms of paper, so much painting, so much electricity

[4:39] You know, the real way for us to impact the budget is to adjust the health care contracts

[4:45] is best as possible, and then ask for a multi-year contract.

[4:50] If we were going to do an override, we would have to have a combination of a multi-year contract

[4:54] and then a multi-year override in order to offset some of the finances and some of the

[5:00] expensive impacts that we would have feel in the first couple of years.

[5:03] So that was the position, you know, we as the select board feel that there are ways that we can get down to balance the budget based on the fact that union contracts are open now, and then we're going to try to negotiate those as best as possible.

[5:18] You know, nobody wants to have massive playoffs, but at the end of the day if we do not fix the structural contract, the structural issues now, those contracts don't come up for the two or three years.

[5:27] And that's that's what the problem is going to be going to be in the same boat sitting here next year even if it if two million dollar override passes

[5:34] It was still going to end up upside down to get next year and you're going to be coming back to the people because we're not changing anything on the expense side

[5:42] So that's any comments just like add to a real quick bit. I think another reason at least for me why I've over the way I did was

[5:52] If we can get if there are any changes to the contracts, you know, we see a way a path forward to get

[5:58] close to the $2 million deficit with contract negotiations.

[6:02] But even if you only got some of it, that means you no longer need $2 million.

[6:06] So how do you ask for $2 million when in the end,

[6:10] maybe you need $500,000, maybe you need $600.

[6:13] That the number right now is still floating.

[6:16] That there's no way if we get the changes that we're looking for

[6:19] or that we're investigating, then that changes the deficit number.

[6:25] If the deficit number changes and why are we still going to ask for the same amount,

[6:28] and bird in the taxpayer the same amount.

[6:32] Are there comments?

[6:33] Yeah, so I was at the select fort meeting last week and then I left and I watched it

[6:38] at home on TV so apparently you watched it twice?

[6:41] I was live and then I watched the ended at home and apparently I missed the part where

[6:45] so I'm questioning, did the select wood vote not to put the override on the ballot?

[6:51] Was it near the end of the meeting?

[6:52] or are we voted the most after the warrant.

[6:58] I have to be voted the warrant.

[6:59] So, something about halfway through.

[7:00] Was it unanimous or was it a photo warrant?

[7:04] No, I thought it was three to one.

[7:05] I wanted to have that.

[7:05] What if Sanchez Brennan was, you know, in cost is,

[7:10] and both of us were yes.

[7:12] So, not so but second question is,

[7:16] and again, I'm a little slow here.

[7:18] Didn't the budget subcommittee,

[7:20] Didn't we support putting both the balanced budget and an override or Sarah correct if we have not gotten to that point because I thought we

[7:30] The process that we had laid out, and I think here's the material issue where I think there's frustration, is that where we were going along is this was a multi-year effort.

[7:40] We had to reduce costs structurally. We also believe that we also probably need an override, and it is ultimately the people's decision.

[7:49] And I think for the select board to come to this decision, it's perfectly acceptable. It's your prerogative.

[7:55] I think from a process perspective, I think we would have preferred a more, look at a chance

[8:01] to weigh in as a tribe ward prior to that, or as, or even at the meeting to say, invite

[8:06] the tribe ward to it.

[8:07] This is the process.

[8:08] I think my biggest problem with this is that we have set all along, we're going to bring this

[8:12] to the people, and continue to work all the other things, and we just took that away from them.

[8:16] That's my biggest concern.

[8:18] Here's my response to that.

[8:19] I sent two emails to Jen asking for a joint meeting, specifically discuss a strategy on health care with no response.

[8:28] That's not true, Walter.

[8:30] I rolled back to you.

[8:31] I can't find anything.

[8:33] And we talked about how we were already in open negotiations.

[8:37] And we put it to last month.

[8:38] That was last month.

[8:39] The first email I sent, I believe, was November.

[8:41] Second email I sent was January of February.

[8:44] They will copies that were provided.

[8:45] So, we wanted to get together and have the whole group sit down and have a discussion because

[8:50] the contracts are open.

[8:52] Once the contracts close, and this is closed for two or three years, then we have no opportunity

[8:56] to do that.

[8:57] I realize that you can't back out because you guys have already negotiated.

[8:59] Right.

[9:00] We also can't talk about contracts in an open meeting.

[9:03] Correct.

[9:03] That's why I feel like it's a note.

[9:05] If we wanted to have an executive session to discuss a joint strategy.

[9:10] Yes.

[9:10] So we, I mean, we had multiple conversations about that

[9:13] Walter, so this is a little bit disappointing.

[9:15] But again, the school committee doesn't set the health

[9:18] care rates that's solely with.

[9:20] But okay, so if we go forward and we change the health

[9:23] care rates, then you don't have to negotiate with the teachers

[9:26] union.

[9:26] They automatically fall in line with the rates.

[9:29] We have to impact bargains so we bring it back to them.

[9:33] So then that's why I was trying to get everyone together

[9:36] to work at the same time.

[9:37] So if you said, hey, we're paying 30%, you're paying 30%.

[9:40] now we want you to pay 35, it was for everybody, it wasn't just for the town, it wasn't

[9:44] just for the schools, it was everybody was going to be a change in the health care across

[9:48] the board, just as an example. Or if we said we're taking a PPO plan out, it's not for the

[9:52] town, it's not for the schools, it's for everybody. So now we're locked in to what you negotiated.

[9:59] We're not locked in because the health care is set by the town and it says that. So if you

[10:04] change it, then we bring it back and in part bargain. I mean we had exhausting, like, amounts

[10:09] discussion. We met with Josh and Jen and Matt in talked links. It just seems odd to me

[10:19] that the process is still unclear.

[10:24] Well, I think from what I understand, the percentage is set by each negotiation on for

[10:36] understanding is, at least from other towns, like the school committees, when they have a contract,

[10:41] they negotiate the percentage with their teachers and then-

[10:44] They never done that. It's always set by the town, because otherwise you'd have different rates

[10:49] for every bargaining unit, and that doesn't make sense from a logistical standpoint.

[10:55] But the 30 percent's written into the contract now. So if we went to 35, we would have to impact

[11:00] bargain, versus if we negotiated the beginning starting in 35.

[11:04] So we can't negotiate at the beginning.

[11:06] You would have had to, in order for us to negotiate at the beginning,

[11:09] you would have had to change your rates,

[11:11] and then we would have had to bring it into negotiations with us.

[11:15] But we're almost done with our negotiations.

[11:19] So, but if no one there was going to be perhaps

[11:22] changes where the new could have gone into the negotiations saying,

[11:25] there might be changes to the healthcare,

[11:28] so that that bargaining happens while the bargaining is open.

[11:32] we can't bargain something we don't know the end result on. We can't say well it might change it might not you might like it you might not so

[11:42] we don't know what they're doing. I don't know from our when we discussed with our labor council they specifically told us that

[11:50] we would basically only be negotiating the town side of the healthcare split.

[11:56] So nobody told us that because we've never

[11:59] That was in our last executive session, but they told us that it's the town negotiating

[12:06] their side, the school negotiating their side, because I think what Walter and I are getting

[12:09] at is that through any number of different ways getting creative with negotiation, still keeping

[12:18] things fair, everything, we can find a way to cover the town side of the 2 million to 740,000

[12:25] to get most of that through changes, and the only way to do it is through changes in the contracts.

[12:31] And this is really the only year to do it for three years, unless we were going to ask for three years of

[12:36] overrides. We've already asked for three years of overrides between the overrides two years ago,

[12:43] last year's failed overrides, and then talking about it this year. We didn't have enough right

[12:46] two years ago. The trash tree was an overrides. But it's not an overrides. It's not an overrides,

[12:53] But technically it's not.

[12:56] Yeah.

[12:56] It's taking, I mean, shifting of expenses.

[12:59] Yeah.

[13:00] And raising a rate for the rate bears.

[13:04] But either way, we've been talking about it for three years.

[13:08] We'll be talking about it for another three years without getting changes in the contracts.

[13:12] Now, it'll just be the same thing next year.

[13:14] Here's another override.

[13:15] It's either an override or cuts.

[13:17] It's either an override or cuts without getting changes made that are substantial

[13:22] Because there are the main problems with balancing the budget every year is with the contracts, whether it's the health care, whether it's salaries and whether it's the salary increase or the salaries where they are now existing today.

[13:38] If they are higher than they should be, or if the raises are higher than they should be, those are the problems that are driving the budget every single year that eats up the new revenue before anything else increases.

[13:48] that if those are not addressed, we're not fixing anything with an override this year and over

[13:53] right next year until they're fixed in the contracts and nothing is fixed.

[13:59] But, you know, I just want to have a discussion.

[14:01] To Sarah's point about why didn't we, meaning this select what bring it to the tribal ed, and secondly,

[14:07] we also, separately, we also talked in this board, and I know the finance committee is like

[14:13] possibly talking about a multi-year override, and I understand the reasons why we didn't

[14:18] that road and we recommended a one year override proposal. So I guess my first question is,

[14:25] why did we bring, why did we talk about it at Tribord? Like not putting the override on the ballot?

[14:32] I mean, my position was pretty clear that I got every bunch of stuff in Tribord meeting that I was

[14:36] never there on an override because I knew we needed to make these steps to get there.

[14:43] Like if we do all these things that we still have an override, well, okay, we at least we've done all these steps

[14:49] But again, if we make some of these changes or get some of these changes and

[14:55] It's it reduces the deficit by you know 800,000. Well, now we only need 1.2 million

[15:01] So we don't even really have a set number, because we're in the middle of negotiations, and we see ways that we can make changes and have been saying that, since we started looking at this in November, November, probably when we really knew the contracts are coming up. So it's really hard to go to voters who have last year shot down a $2 million dollar override to ask for another one when we had to stand up and tell me to a while you're asking for $2 million. Well, we think that's what we need.

[15:29] That's what we're talking about.

[15:29] But budgeting is though.

[15:30] You think it's a projection.

[15:32] There's things that change.

[15:33] That's what budgeting is.

[15:35] So I would look at it the way we want to go through our negotiations that we can reduce a lot

[15:44] of that.

[15:45] And we should budget for that.

[15:46] Like not just throw out 2 million because we don't have a federal contract though.

[15:51] So yeah.

[15:51] So it could go either way.

[15:52] Why does it have to stay at 2 million?

[15:54] It could go up even.

[15:55] But it could go down.

[15:56] I think from a committee perspective and a process perspective, if you guys were this, like we're just not voting for it, I think making that explicitly clear much earlier in the process, because it wasn't to me it was a discussion in the entire time.

[16:10] Right, just basically how we did it and to say that no we're not going to put this forward or we're going to take a, you know, however we do it at the next try word, that would have saved all of us a lot of time.

[16:20] If for anything, I mean, we made them create two budgets.

[16:23] If this wasn't going to happen, and we knew it wasn't going to happen,

[16:27] they wouldn't have had to create two budgets.

[16:29] It's a lot of work. I'm guessing.

[16:31] I mean, it's still a lot of work.

[16:32] It's still create two budgets, so you would know what the Delta is and where the gap would be.

[16:36] Yeah, it's a lot to figure out what the cuts would be from the two million,

[16:39] and you have it at the two million.

[16:40] More than two million, the schools are cutting 2.2.

[16:44] Now, like the actual amount we're cutting is 3.8 or 3.9 million in total.

[16:50] So I think, again, it's, you know, the decision is your per view and I understand the concerns.

[16:56] I guess I echo Sarah in terms of just communicating this out earlier on in the process,

[17:02] because we would not have gone down the route of saying, let's have two budgets.

[17:07] That's to a balanced budget version.

[17:09] And still need both budgets though.

[17:11] Yeah, because you just created a balanced budget.

[17:13] No, you wouldn't just stand in both budgets because yes, you do because then you're going to negotiate and you if you don't get a hundred percent of what you want

[17:19] You still need to come back to that budget and say we've got eight hundred thousand dollars off. We got a million two off

[17:24] So he needs to cut that but you need to find the million two

[17:30] That's not how we

[17:32] negotiate

[17:36] any other

[17:38] comments

[17:38] I just a general question. Why not why not let the town decide like I can look at the numbers but I pretty sure I was

[17:46] pretty close to us, two-thirds, one-third last year, and I understand I'm not

[17:50] we're all intelligent people and realize if we had a bet which would not

[17:55] have a lot to bet, like it probably wouldn't pass this year, but why not let

[17:57] the people speak? But here's the thing, the hard decision is not letting the

[18:02] people speak, the hard decision's fiction, the problem.

[18:04] You feel both at the same time. How can you?

[18:08] You continue with negotiations. You put forward a, this is an estimate of what we

[18:12] that we need. You guys, this is the impact of if we are not able to get there and let them decide,

[18:19] we need money regardless. Even if we, even if we pass the $2 million over right,

[18:25] and you reach the negotiating stance that you feel like you can get to and we're structurally

[18:29] fix it, then we have room to, we need additional police officers, we need additional stuff.

[18:35] There are needs for this, and we are dramatically low on contingency funding and also to

[18:41] gas prices are going up like you can do both, even though the outcome is the same, you could have done both at the same time.

[18:48] I don't think it won negates each other.

[18:51] But it is what this is, it's just, yeah, unfortunately.

[18:55] But when you go to the town and you say to the town, if you vote for this,

[18:59] there's still going to be a seven-figure override coming up again next year.

[19:03] How do we do, that's, and then?

[19:06] Not if you go to everything you can say doing, but maybe we can solve the problem.

[19:10] But you might not solve the problem.

[19:12] But if we put it on the warrant to go to town meeting,

[19:16] we'd definitely not solve it in the problem.

[19:18] But it's easy for us because we're like,

[19:19] oh, we let the people vote.

[19:21] We let the people vote.

[19:22] Is nothing stopping you from trying to get the structural changes

[19:25] that you want to make, while also trying

[19:28] to get additional revenue for the town?

[19:30] I think the way I look at it, having

[19:33] continued to look at everything from the fall,

[19:35] through the winter, I would push back

[19:39] But I think there's a revenue problem with the town.

[19:42] I would say without saying exactly where they are,

[19:47] you can see where there's an allocation issue more

[19:53] than there is a revenue issue.

[19:57] That you could have both.

[19:58] You could still add to police and fire, perhaps.

[20:01] You could add in programs, but there is a structural issue

[20:07] with salaries, and we can get into the specific ones.

[20:09] But that are so out of whack, you could almost attribute our entire deficit this year to it.

[20:19] And I think you can contribute our deficit to a lot of different things.

[20:24] It's a culmination of them, of which the ones that we have controller are what you're trying to navigate.

[20:32] I would say there's some obvious ones that almost eat up an entire $2 million.

[20:39] If you look at, I've said it before, the top lane salary of teachers of which 35% we know

[20:47] are in is $10,000, $9,000 more than $1,000 per year, $13,000 more than east in a year,

[20:56] with $16,000, I think more than North Adabura year, any town around your KPA, I think it's $8,000

[21:01] more, you take that lane, take those numbers right there. That's over a million dollars. That's

[21:09] half the deficit, more than half the deficit. To say that there's a revenue problem when I see that

[21:16] is really hard to argue in my opinion. Do you just say it was another problem? I thought that's what I heard.

[21:23] No, I said I don't think there's much of a problem. I think it's a more of an allocation problem.

[21:28] But the teachers and 30, 30, 30% in the top lane, what can be done about that?

[21:35] I mean, it's a problem.

[21:38] But how do I go to voters or constantly telling me what are we doing?

[21:44] What are we doing?

[21:45] What is the problem?

[21:46] And I can tell them what the problem is.

[21:48] And how can I tell them?

[21:50] So that's why we need more for you is to add raises to what are the top earning teachers.

[21:57] in this entire area, Bristol, Norfolk County, there's, there's nobody higher.

[22:04] So, how, how do you add it? We're higher than Sharon. We're higher than Ken, than Walpole,

[22:10] and Rentham, Plainville. I think that's most of that, but I've looked at it.

[22:19] I, again, like the decision is your purview. So, I, I respect the reason you have for not voting for it.

[22:26] my concern honestly is the process and that we went through this whole

[22:30] All year with the thought that we would be presenting these two budgets, and I feel that. And I hear what you're saying, and I don't think that those are new concerns. So again, I go back to if they were, if if the decision was made collectively by the three boards to have the two options and to move forward with preparing those two options, then for the decision to be made.

[22:58] last week and I do feel like that an invitation could have gone out to the other two

[23:04] boards to attend to have a conversation and it's really for me at this point is more

[23:09] about the process and whether we are going to be able to continue to have this forum, this

[23:18] space to share information and communicate because we've seen how it goes when the schools

[23:25] the town and the board gets siloed right and we don't want to go back to that so for me it's more

[23:31] that. But to that point you just said that you've known about these issues for a long time

[23:37] so the process hasn't addressed them for years now and I do know we have Michelle and Matt

[23:43] and Mallory at Whole New Administration who I think are doing a great job at really diving into these

[23:48] looking at these and recognizing the problems but so far if we've known the problems have been there

[23:53] How come they haven't been addressed at all in the last, I mean?

[23:58] They better address your cuts.

[24:01] But exactly, but that doesn't address the problem.

[24:06] That doesn't change the future.

[24:07] I'm like good to Jack, your point about a multi year override.

[24:11] Well, all that does is kick the can.

[24:12] And if you do a two year override, it kicks it down two years.

[24:15] Right? Because you still haven't fixed the problem that's driving the issue year after year.

[24:20] We've obviously would have asked for a bigger number.

[24:22] like whatever it's seven or eight million, but that's what I mean,

[24:26] they'll say we need a seven million over two years to cover it, right?

[24:29] But the point is if you don't need a three year in the same boat.

[24:32] The other dressing health care and that addressing this

[24:34] pay structure that he's talking about.

[24:36] We're not talking about current teachers saying, hey, we're going to cut

[24:39] or you, whatever, he's talking about just saying marks against other towns.

[24:42] If we don't address those somehow or come to ground that he's wrong or he's

[24:46] right on those, then we're not, we're not fixing it for the town.

[24:50] We're not helping the town by doing that.

[24:55] So I mean, I can say, again, I understand that you brought this up before, my comment was more about the process this year, like if we had said early on, like know there's really significant concerns and we really feel like it's in the best interest of the town to not put forth an override and to only do a balanced budget.

[25:16] Because I think everybody on the three boards was on the, in industry there's one of the

[25:22] understanding that it would be a balanced budget option and an order right option going forward.

[25:29] So again, for me, it's really more around.

[25:33] Should we have had a try board meeting to just, or be asked to invite it to come to the

[25:46] And I understand, and I think that I'm not on negotiations this year, but I will say that in previous negotiations, we did add, we did slow down the lanes and the steps, but it takes a while to get those in, and just because one side wants something, it is a collective bargaining, you are collectively deciding what the agreement is going to be, so we can't go in and say we just want this, right?

[26:10] So, it's a longer process, but it doesn't mean that it can't happen, but it's not going

[26:16] to happen just because one side wants something to happen.

[26:20] And I think that's the challenge with collective bargaining, but it's a, you know, the

[26:24] ever right to collective bargaining, and that's what we have to have to go into the process

[26:27] with.

[26:29] I do think it'll be helpful to get clarity about the health insurance rates, because my

[26:34] understanding has been the town set, those and the school district simply impact bargains

[26:39] that. So once the rate split is finalized, then it's up to the limit.

[26:44] It's in that part of it.

[26:45] Does that mean that you might have to give them more of a salary increase or whatever,

[26:48] if you went impact part of it?

[26:49] It would be separate from this contract,

[26:53] it would be outside of that contract negotiation.

[26:57] And I think that when, you know,

[27:00] this, I think predates all of us at this point,

[27:02] but I think when the telemanager at the time

[27:08] implemented some changes, that's where that mitigation fund came out of, but that wasn't

[27:14] bargain by the schools.

[27:16] I don't think that's in your contract, either.

[27:18] But they get it.

[27:21] Yeah, but I don't think it's in a town's contract either.

[27:23] I know they get it, but I'm not sure it's in either contract.

[27:27] I think we found from labor councils and some, it's not another sort.

[27:31] For all my concern.

[27:33] So, some we have some in the middle of what's I'm not going to.

[27:38] So, we are, we are.

[27:41] I mean, I wish that we had had a joint meeting.

[27:44] We've had many joint meetings.

[27:46] An executive session with the schools and had had a conversation, like I've requested

[27:52] early on, and then maybe we wouldn't have wasted time doing this.

[27:57] And maybe somebody I'd hear is, hold on, hold on.

[27:59] We had many conversations when we had many conversations, and we came to agreements.

[28:05] So this is, like, it's, you know, it is what it is.

[28:11] I'm not sure what a green we came to, but the only thing is, could we have gotten the whole thing?

[28:17] No, we might not get anything, right? But at least we try and, at least people in town say, hey, you know what, you try to do it.

[28:22] But next year we can't do it because the contracts will be closed.

[28:26] Contracts closed.

[28:27] You can change the insurance rates and impact bargain them.

[28:31] I know, but we're going to end up shaving five bucks over here and paying five bucks back over there.

[28:36] Okay.

[28:38] I'm going to move because I know that we have time for insurance.

[28:42] So previously in one of the budgets of committee meetings, when we thought this is going forward,

[28:47] we had planned five public outreach sessions to explain the options to the town.

[28:53] I now assume that we are canceling all of those and we're not going to have any public outreach sessions,

[28:56] because there's no need.

[28:58] And it's session concerns.

[29:02] My expectation would be the town manager who to the regular explanation of the warrant and the superintendent would join in for the school.

[29:13] I don't think we would need any separate.

[29:16] The school committee has already had their public hearing.

[29:20] On this on, we've discussed that length of process for 27.

[29:25] And I assume that we still want this

[29:28] tribe ward process for and budget process for this year, 28.

[29:34] I would assume that we do unless we want to expand the committee.

[29:38] Things are going to shift with the committees.

[29:41] And so my recommendation is that school committee at Per the charge calls for a meeting,

[29:46] probably in the October timeframe.

[29:48] I think that makes sense.

[29:49] And where we'll kind of know.

[29:50] And then we can kind of lay out the process from there, depending on how people are charged to the

[29:54] to submit a process. Any concerns, changes? I think we need it earlier then.

[30:00] October, because when I tried to do it earlier, everyone yelled at me. I'm sorry, we are going to need to know kind of the parameters, because at the school budget process will start in October. So we need to know essentially October is usually tough for schools to do on August, just why we say August and the charge. Sorry.

[30:20] So I'm going to ask for the school committee to make a request for that and then we can figure

[30:25] it up from there.

[30:26] You guys okay with that?

[30:30] I think another thing that would be helpful to get clarity on is there's usually, unfortunately,

[30:36] the decision at the state level about chapter 70 funds comes in after town meeting and sometimes

[30:43] after the fiscal year starts, but it's usually an increase to funding per pupil.

[30:50] And that has not traditionally come to the schools, even though it's a per people

[30:56] extended church.

[30:57] So I would like to make sure we come back to that, that a future day once that

[31:03] amount is known.

[31:08] All right.

[31:09] Any public comment?

[31:13] Let's try and get to that.

[31:18] Yeah.

[31:19] Scott Feeley, 49th Root Street.

[31:21] I'm listening to all this.

[31:23] And I absolutely don't understand why the concept of all the work you want to do and

[31:27] trying to bend the curve. And override our mutually exclusive. Nothing says they are. Nothing

[31:33] says we couldn't do both. You decided to just do one and out the other. That was the

[31:36] decision you made. That brings my next comment. We had a collaborative process. I was here

[31:44] when we started 110 one budget. And this is the first time we've actually stopped on it since 2012.

[31:51] But we did. We took 110 one budget. We sort of threw it out as far as this decision is concerned

[31:56] because we were collaborative, right up until you guys made a decision, and for anybody this

[32:02] been following this and looking at all the public information out there, I'd say they

[32:07] got a wonder if we have any idea what they're doing, because all these meetings and everything

[32:11] we talked about, and then to have it turn like it did, and then for this discussion tonight,

[32:17] it certainly doesn't look like we've known what we've been talking about and all these meetings

[32:20] we've had and all these numbers we've come up with and all the work people did, short

[32:25] staff at the time to come up with all these numbers that today we simply don't need, we don't

[32:29] need that over right budget. We don't need one budget. The balance budget, because we have

[32:34] to have a balance budget, we're going to put that forward. All that other time was a waste

[32:37] of time. Waste of our time. Hey, my volunteers here, I'm making a paid. We were paying people

[32:43] to do that stuff. And they were wasting their time because we're not using any of it. We

[32:46] should have been having different discussions. What we didn't. And frankly, I don't think

[32:51] it makes us look very good to anyone who's been following all this and looks at all the

[32:54] information that's out there. We were collaborative. This was not one

[33:00] town in Budge. It just got put in jeopardy and it was the decision to

[33:03] meet. So now we're going to live with it.

[33:06] Thank you. Any other public comment?

[33:16] Diane readie 38, North Farm Drive. I just want to echo everything that Scott

[33:22] just said. We do talk about being one town on budget and last week's vote didn't

[33:26] make it feel that way. We talk about being transparent and involving

[33:31] the public and our decision-making, and eliminating the public's option to hear about

[33:38] how we came to the budget options that we were proposing, all the careful work that

[33:44] was done, all the methodical, painstaking, cutting that was proposed, even as part of the

[33:53] override. All of that does seem to be out the window. And I think something that bothers

[33:58] me perhaps the most is number one, the lack of communication, too, we seem to be just assuming

[34:09] that a few people's personal feedback in discussions with neighbors should supersede democratic

[34:20] process where people can come out and hear more and learn more and it's almost difficult

[34:25] to say, people can't really process unless they're us, in the public can process, just because

[34:34] something was turned down last year or 10 years ago or 20 years ago, we could also say

[34:41] 20 years ago, people have improved things, because they care about school and they care about

[34:45] education, they care about the town's health. If we really believe in democracy, we believe

[34:51] the people can come out and listen and make a decision, and if they vote against it,

[34:55] if they vote against it, that's fine. But I don't know why we would exclude the public

[35:00] based on our assumptions about how they were vote, otherwise why bother to have voted,

[35:05] why bother to have town meetings. So that's my feeling, and I also want to echo structural

[35:11] structural changes can happen at the same time. I don't know why it's mutually exclusive,

[35:16] And that's, that's all I have to say.

[35:19] Thank you.

[35:20] I know.

[35:24] When you come up, can you also identify which committee you're on?

[35:26] So people at home know that school committees got on the finance committee.

[35:29] That's on finance committee school committee school.

[35:32] Yeah.

[35:32] Jamie Vuitton is three-liner circle.

[35:34] I'm also on the school committee.

[35:36] I'm still concerned and someone confused by the decision,

[35:39] not to move forward with an override vote,

[35:42] and allow a man's field residents the opportunity to decide for themselves,

[35:45] whether they have the means or the willingness to support one.

[35:48] As you know, even before the override vote, we would be making a significant number of cuts to the schools.

[35:55] I understand it has been suggested that they're underlying structural issues. I get that.

[35:59] That need to be addressed first. It sounds like it was mainly driven by the negotiations.

[36:06] But from my perspective and looking across Massachusetts, many communities are facing similar pressures.

[36:13] health care costs, for sure, utilities, transportation, reductions in state and federal aid.

[36:19] It feels like we're in the same boat.

[36:22] As someone who has been in the profession for 27 years, and was in Mansfield Schools for 4,

[36:27] I also want to clarify a few points that I've been hearing discussed in what I think are overly simplified terms.

[36:34] It's of course true that declining enrollment can reduce the need for some staffing.

[36:38] However, that does not fully reflect how schools operate today or the breadth of services and

[36:43] support expected of them.

[36:45] Over the past three years, the district has already reduced nearly 20 classroom teaching

[36:49] positions.

[36:51] The current proposals, of course, would add to that number.

[36:54] At the same time, our reductions have extended well beyond classroom teachers.

[36:58] We've lost, I think, two assistant principals in that time, one from the high school and

[37:04] another one from one of the elementary.

[37:05] These people play critical roles in supporting teachers and students.

[37:11] We've lost adjustment counselors, school nurses, special education teacher, among others.

[37:17] In many cases, these reductions are less visible because they don't affect class size calculations,

[37:23] but they're equally impactful.

[37:25] Fewer core sections causing increased case loads and expanded risk.

[37:31] We've already placed a significant strain on the school system, I believe, and have lost a number of promising early career educators.

[37:40] And that raises another concern, and I think it's related to, I think, what was mentioned earlier.

[37:46] But this has to do with a long-term sustainability of our educator workforce.

[37:51] Mansfield currently has one of if not the highest percentage of veteran teachers in the region.

[37:57] That experience is no doubt a tremendous asset in the classroom.

[38:02] But we're steadily losing younger educators due to these cuts.

[38:06] In my experience, it's the younger teachers who are the ones who often volunteered to take on additional responsibilities,

[38:12] advising clubs, coaching athletics, providing extra help, supporting school events.

[38:19] They represent the next generation of those experienced teachers.

[38:23] Using them year after year creates an experience gap that will be felt, especially when

[38:29] our veteran teachers actually do retire.

[38:33] We've also seen reductions in specialized supports last year, for instance, the Bridge

[38:38] Program and our partnership with McLean Hospital.

[38:41] These programs provided critical mental health services to students and families.

[38:46] Their absence may not be immediately visible in a budget document, but it is deeply felt

[38:51] by those who relied on those services at critical times.

[38:55] I recognize that an override may not have been supported by voters,

[38:59] particularly given the financial pressures many residents are facing,

[39:03] however, schools are a central driver of property values in our community as well.

[39:08] In that way, decisions that have the potential to significantly impact the quality of our schools

[39:12] also have implications for homeowners. For that reason, I believe residents should have had the

[39:18] opportunity to weigh the advantages or disadvantages on their own.

[39:22] Thanks.

[39:22] Thank you.

[39:23] Can I ask you a question?

[39:25] What would your, you've been in an education for many years?

[39:28] How would you balance the budget?

[39:30] I mean, it's easy to say just give it to the people without solving the problem,

[39:33] but how would you balance the budget?

[39:36] How would you, in other words, how would you, like, probably, or...

[39:40] How would you take care of the health care?

[39:41] How would you take care of the teachers' reasons?

[39:42] How would you take care of the townery?

[39:44] What would you do?

[39:44] I think there are limitations right now.

[39:46] I mean, to me, the options or the override or significant cuts, I mean, I don't think that

[39:57] the negotiations, I mean, we're not going to ask for a great reduction in the steps I think

[40:05] right now, like the percentage or what the bottom line is.

[40:10] We do have a very, very veteran staff.

[40:12] I think over time, we're going to find that that better and staff is going to retire, and we're going to be in a much better position financially, but not as well in the classroom.

[40:24] I might be.

[40:26] It's a trade-off.

[40:27] I think they all learn.

[40:30] I just have a comment.

[40:31] Just based on the last couple.

[40:34] It's the select board's job and purview to take on whether or not an override is needed.

[40:42] And kind of what was just heard is that if there's any cuts

[40:46] per pose, we should put out an override.

[40:49] And I just don't think that's feasible.

[40:51] And to talk about the democratic process,

[40:53] was only two years ago, we didn't have a democratic process

[40:57] with the shoe on the other foot of raising revenues.

[41:01] So it sounds like some want it when they want it.

[41:05] And then when they want to have it the other way.

[41:09] They have it the other way and that was the trash fee two years ago is implemented not through a democratic process that the voters wanted it through a vote of the select board

[41:18] to raise the rates on the rate pairs

[41:26] on that

[41:27] no items no anything for you hours. I just

[41:30] I don't want

[41:32] I don't want to do this

[41:33] Yeah, do we have anybody online?

[41:34] I'm virtual visitors

[41:36] Okay, we'll give them a chance to have a cup of tea

[41:39] What do you need to go?

[41:41] No, she hasn't picked up yet

[41:43] Are you ready for that now?

[41:44] Yes, we're ready for that. Sorry for that delay

[41:46] If you have joined us virtually and you'd like to make a comment, please use the raise your

[41:51] hand tool and we'll identify him.

[42:03] I see none.

[42:04] Okay.

[42:05] Thank you for that.

[42:06] No, items not knowing 40 hours and before we adjourn, I just want to remind ourselves that

[42:13] although we disagree, we are also neighbors.

[42:15] So we need to try to move forward together.

[42:18] Thank you.

[42:19] I just want to welcome anyone to your turn.

[42:20] Oh yeah.

[42:22] I don't make up much of the order.

[42:23] Thank you.

[42:23] In a second.

[42:24] On the second.

[42:25] All those in favor?

[42:26] Hi.

[42:27] Motion passes five zero.

[42:29] A call for the budget sub two.

[42:32] Call for budget sub two adjourn.

[42:33] I'll take a motion.

[42:34] Who adjourn?

[42:36] Second.

[42:36] All those in favor?

[42:37] Hi.

[42:38] Hi.

Budget Sub Committee 4/6/2026

Transcript