[0:01] Okay, Google says it's four o'clock. Let's call our meeting order.

[0:04] Can you take the roll, please?

[0:06] Certainly. Mr. White?

[0:07] Here.

[0:07] Mr. Miller?

[0:08] Here.

[0:09] Mr. O'Reilly?

[0:10] Here.

[0:10] Mr. Eberle?

[0:11] Here.

[0:11] Mr. Knecht?

[0:12] Here.

[0:13] Mr. Varshall?

[0:13] Here.

[0:15] Mr. Capulis here, as well as trail manager, comp, and utility staff.

[0:18] Thank you, Bob.

[0:20] Jessica, was the meeting appropriately noticed?

[0:22] Yes, we spent on a notification from various media

[0:25] outlets and just posted here at the library city hall

[0:29] as well as the city website.

[0:31] Thank you very much.

[0:34] Number three, public comment period. At this time

[0:36] the commission recognized members of the public and

[0:38] dedicated the desire to address the commission. Do we have any members of the

[0:42] public here today to address the commission?

[0:46] Any members of the public for public comment?

[0:50] Seeing none.

[0:52] Number four, commissioner and staff comments.

[0:54] Commissioner, is there anything before we get going?

[0:57] I would just want to welcome John to the commission.

[1:03] Thank you, John. Did you want to tell anybody about yourself?

[1:05] Well, just recently appointed to the common council

[1:09] in two meetings, two and a half, three meetings now.

[1:13] And, yeah, I work as an IT director at Ford Bank. Prior

[1:17] to that, I worked in healthcare for far too many years.

[1:21] Almost 30. I aged myself a little bit by saying that.

[1:25] I'm happy to be here. I know I have a lot to learn, but I'm ready to dig in.

[1:30] Good. Welcome.

[1:32] Staff comments tonight.

[1:34] Yes, I have two of them tonight.

[1:36] So first, Jessica will be sending out an email.

[1:39] Probably tomorrow. The blue human annual

[1:41] meeting is scheduled for October, October 20th.

[1:45] It will be held on the cross. It's from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m.

[1:48] So that's bringing together two joint-act agencies.

[1:50] About 29 different utilities are represented. Both bodies will have board meetings,

[1:55] but then we'll have, right now, we have four or five speakers lined up to give

[1:59] insight into the industry on the electric side.

[2:03] From generation type batteries and the end-of-meter diesel generators to someone

[2:08] talking about banking security and then someone giving

[2:11] maybe an overview of the state of the electric market.

[2:14] So look for that email and if you can respond to her to let her know if you're

[2:17] available to attend, that would be great.

[2:20] Especially for newer members, these are great educational opportunities.

[2:25] Yeah, and this will bring together, like I said, 29 communities, but

[2:28] representatives will be, you know, my level or department of public works

[2:34] directors, utility directors, council members, commissioners, mayors.

[2:38] It will be the whole gamut of people that may attend

[2:40] these events. So we're more than welcome to join us.

[2:44] The second item I have is, I'm sure many of you have heard in the news about a

[2:47] local company that's going to be closing later this year.

[2:51] Unfortunately, this company, you know, it represents about half a percent of our

[2:55] electric sales. So if I exclude purchase power, it's about a half a percent.

[2:59] So it's meaningful, but not maybe too large, if you will. On the water side, it

[3:06] represents closer to about 7.5 percent of our water sales.

[3:09] So unfortunately on the water side, while there would be that reduction revenue,

[3:14] there isn't really a corresponding expense, per se.

[3:17] There may be some slight, you know, decrease in electric electricity that we use

[3:21] for pumping and a little bit from a chemical perspective as far as treatment.

[3:24] So we're already taking this into account as we consider the budgets as we prepare

[3:29] those for your consideration in the months that come.

[3:31] And another thing to think about is this may, unfortunately, lead us, as you know,

[3:35] on the water side, we have the ability to do a simplified water rate case.

[3:37] And that would be something that would be looked at in March or April next year. So

[3:41] it's possible with a combination of looking at the budgets and the audit and so

[3:45] forth that we may have to strongly consider that when the time comes.

[3:48] So just kind of putting that out there for information on me.

[3:52] That's great. And that's both of them?

[3:55] Yes.

[3:57] Thank you.

[3:58] Number five, Employee Service Awards.

[4:00] Yes. So today we get to recognize Jessica Lure. She's celebrating five years of

[4:05] service on September 27th. It's hard to imagine that five years have gone past.

[4:11] It's gone pretty fast. So she is our communications and executive assistant that

[4:15] whole time. So please join me in congratulating Jessica.

[4:19] Thank you.

[4:25] Thank you.

[4:26] Number six, a glue update.

[4:28] Yes. So each quarter we provide an update on Great Lakes Utilities activities.

[4:33] It's kind of a recap of a lot of the

[4:35] activities that are going on from across the quarter.

[4:38] So I won't necessarily get into any specifics

[4:41] on it, but welcome any questions you may have.

[4:43] I know it's a little bit of alphabet soup. And if you look at it with the different

[4:46] acronyms, it's kind of a world I work in.

[4:49] If you will, that would work in.

[4:52] Yes, just a quick question. And maybe we've covered this. So I

[4:55] apologize. But I see on the reference to the CMP as RFP. Yes.

[5:00] You just give me two minutes on what that is.

[5:03] Sure. So CM Compass is another joint agency in Minnesota.

[5:09] And we partnered with glue partner with them along with Konexis, which is a

[5:13] cooperative in northern Minnesota, northern

[5:17] suburbs of the St. Paul area, Minneapolis area.

[5:21] Along with Cedar Falls, Iowa, the four groups

[5:24] went in and put together an RFP for a power supply.

[5:27] And we had basically any non-hydrogen. So renewables, wind,

[5:31] solar, or batteries for different various quantities and sizes.

[5:36] So we expect to see the results later this week. And then we'll be analyzing over

[5:40] the next month or two to see if there's some

[5:41] viable solutions to make glue power supply.

[5:44] Thank you.

[5:46] Good question.

[5:49] Any other questions on the Google update?

[5:54] That's for information only.

[5:57] So moving on to number seven, public and private side water replacement timeline.

[6:02] So this is a follow up to the lead service

[6:05] replacement schedule that the commission adopted back in 2025.

[6:09] At that time, we established deadlines for the end of this year for private side

[6:13] lead services, water services, 2027 for the

[6:16] public side lead services, and 2030 for lead gooseneks.

[6:20] As we progress through the replacement program, we're

[6:23] looking at recommending some adjustments to that timeline.

[6:27] We currently have about 273 public side lead services and approximately 542 lead

[6:32] gooseneks remaining, along with about 18 or so private lead services.

[6:38] And unfortunately, as we continue to do the public side, one

[6:41] thing that does occur is that we do identify new private side.

[6:44] And the reason that happens is obviously it's their underground facilities. Over

[6:47] time, people's lead services, they failed

[6:50] inside the house or it comes up into the house.

[6:53] So the private property owners replaced that maybe three or four or five feet. So

[6:57] when we do a visual, it looks like it's been updated.

[6:59] But in reality, when you go outside and look at the curb top, that's when you see

[7:02] the rest of it's unfortunately still wet.

[7:04] So we expect that, I think, John, was it one in 12, roughly? So for every 12 public

[7:10] side, we come across one of them has a private side lead to be replaced, roughly.

[7:18] So the recommendation is to allow newly identified, so what we're recommending is

[7:23] that for any newly identified private lead services, that they basically have until

[7:28] the following county year for replacement.

[7:30] So that would mean if they found it now, they

[7:32] would have until the end of next year to replace it.

[7:37] And then to extend the public side at least one more year to the end of 2028 and to

[7:41] extend the gooseneck deadline to the end of 2035.

[7:44] These changes will give us greater flexibility to coordinate the work with streets

[7:48] and other water main projects, better be able to

[7:51] and better manage our available capital spending.

[7:55] And as we just talked about that large customer, that's another component to be

[7:58] thinking about is it, you know, as our resources are lessened, this would help.

[8:04] Importantly to note is that even with these potential changes, we're still looking

[8:08] at targeting a replacement of the public service, the public lead services nine

[8:14] years ahead of the current federal and state requirements.

[8:18] So I'd like to leave it to you guys for any questions you might have.

[8:22] Is there a motion for anything?

[8:25] I'll move to approve that.

[8:26] Second.

[8:27] I'll move to approve the recommendation.

[8:28] Yes.

[8:30] Second.

[8:31] Questions?

[8:32] Yeah, I don't have any problem with the high schedule.

[8:34] I think that looks fine, but I'm just curious if there's been any talk from

[8:37] regulators or environmental groups or others who might be concerned that the

[8:41] schedule, the planned schedule is too long and pushing legislators and whatever to

[8:48] advance the schedule or accelerate the schedule.

[8:51] I think it's a little more seeing it's actually gaps.

[8:54] So some of the big communities like Chicago and such have considerable amount of

[8:59] what services and for them to even meet those deadlines, it's unlikely.

[9:04] They should note that the EPA is in court right now with the AWBA and others

[9:10] fighting against the schedules that have been proposed.

[9:14] I'm not moving into the details, but they feel like it's unjust, if you will.

[9:18] So it's been more the latter.

[9:21] Not likely that anything will accelerate.

[9:25] Yeah, I think the only thing we'll likely hope that I would anticipate at some

[9:28] point we'll see a good snack deadline added to it.

[9:31] But I think at this point that the main focus is on the full blood services.

[9:35] And I should note that, you know, as we try to coordinate projects and I know you

[9:39] haven't seen the capital budget yet, but one thing that we do have is, and this is

[9:42] a ways out, and I alluded to Central Avenue.

[9:45] Central Avenue from Arnold to Harrison is scheduled to be replaced in 2032.

[9:53] And we have some blood services in that area.

[9:55] So as we continue down the road, is it possible this item might come back to you

[9:59] again for consideration if we want to make some adjustments?

[10:02] But just I think this is a good interim to know.

[10:05] At least a first step, I guess, to help get us some flexibility.

[10:08] Yes, sir.

[10:11] Just a new guy question.

[10:13] On the private side funding, are those

[10:16] homeowners responsible to pay that replacement?

[10:20] And are there grants?

[10:22] Yeah, so there are grants right now.

[10:25] So through those that we complete this year are being 100% funded through the grant

[10:29] program or some, the commission allocated a

[10:32] few dollars from their fund to help support.

[10:35] Unfortunately, I want to look forward to next year and beyond.

[10:38] We're a little worried that the state funding may be trimmed.

[10:41] So right now it's 100% principal forgiveness.

[10:44] But we're anticipating is that we may see

[10:45] something like 25% that's full forgiveness.

[10:48] So obviously on a $5,000 expense, there's going to be 75% of that on the customer.

[10:54] However, I think, are we talking, what's the carryover?

[10:56] We're thinking like eight to 10, John.

[10:59] Of the remaining projects?

[11:00] For next year, yeah.

[11:01] Yeah, we have eight to 10.

[11:02] I'm still going to try to get them in this year yet.

[11:04] Yeah.

[11:05] But if we can't, we might put it off until April.

[11:07] But yeah, there's with the money we got left, we can

[11:09] probably do about eight to 10 of the 18 we have remaining.

[11:13] So there'll probably be eight or so that carry over to next year.

[11:16] If you figure we have about 250 or so to inspect on the public side, we're

[11:21] anticipating maybe another 20 to get added.

[11:23] So those are the ones, unfortunately, that'll

[11:25] get subject to that 25% principal forgiveness.

[11:27] And obviously when the time comes, when that funding comes back to you guys for

[11:32] consideration on if there's any creative

[11:35] solutions that'll come up with a shortfall.

[11:38] Thank you.

[11:39] So it starts with the homeowner is responsible for the private side.

[11:42] Got it.

[11:44] But the utility's got a great job of finding resources to help out.

[11:48] Okay.

[11:50] Okay, so we have a motion and a second.

[11:51] Any other questions or discussion on that?

[11:55] If not, all in favor?

[11:56] Aye.

[11:57] Opposed?

[11:59] Motion carries.

[12:03] Number eight, can you strategic plan quarterly update?

[12:07] So just kind of like the glue, this is a

[12:09] quarterly update that we provide to the commission.

[12:13] This is there's obviously a number of activity that's the initiatives.

[12:18] You can see that we cut it.

[12:19] We tell the quarter living rent has been changes from the last time.

[12:22] And then green are the ones that are different and something that's 100% complete.

[12:25] So you can see that the vast majority of the initiatives have some activity going

[12:29] on and changes from a month or just a quarter quarter.

[12:33] So this will get into details of anyone but

[12:35] welcome any questions or comments you might have.

[12:40] Questions to have today.

[12:51] Looks like good progress in a number of areas.

[12:53] Is there anything that's lagging behind that you're concerned about?

[12:59] I think that there's, you know, there's a couple that are related to the commission

[13:03] on the back end related to our support of glue and potentially U-MEG.

[13:08] I think there's also one on economic development because we kind of tabled that for

[13:12] the city to get their strategic plan completed.

[13:14] So those are areas that we're waiting on.

[13:15] Maybe that needs some.

[13:18] We need to do some things on the communication area.

[13:21] I know this is focusing on that so we can

[13:24] kind of move that on the floor a little bit.

[13:26] I do envision that, you know, there's a 27 plan based on where we are now.

[13:30] I could envision us asking for a one year extension if you would to run that one

[13:34] more year just given the activity that's going on.

[13:37] I don't think there's been a huge shift, I guess, overall in focus.

[13:40] There's obviously more work that could be done

[13:42] within the items that were already identified.

[13:46] Other questions?

[13:48] I'm just wondering, again, new guy question, how

[13:50] often is this strategic plan edited, redeveloped?

[13:55] Is it annually?

[13:57] Yeah, the overall plan I think is on a three year cycle generally.

[14:00] Three years? Okay.

[14:01] But we have the last one I think we want one more year

[14:03] and then this one I could see where we may go one more year.

[14:05] Thanks.

[14:08] Good.

[14:10] We've got questions.

[14:13] Okay.

[14:14] We're going to have to talk.

[14:18] All right, that's for information only.

[14:20] Any other questions?

[14:23] If not, number nine, economic development fund governance policy review.

[14:30] Version 62.

[14:32] Version 62.

[14:34] So, so based on the discussion of the last meeting, we've put together a new or

[14:39] replacement policy that was developed that basically split has the community

[14:45] donations which was a part of the policy originally.

[14:48] And then we added a section as it relates to economic development support support.

[14:52] The hope was this, you know, the strap policy might

[14:55] help facilitate some conversation and they may help us.

[14:58] So there's ways to tweak it or make it to make it better.

[15:01] But just again trying to help drive that forward a little bit.

[15:06] I really like the way that you guys separated out the community and the economic

[15:11] development criteria that was that was a big

[15:13] part of what came out of last month's conversation.

[15:16] I think you guys did a nice job on that.

[15:18] Do we want to start with questions comments discussion.

[15:21] Do we want to start with emotion.

[15:25] What's the flavor today.

[15:31] Move to approve for discussion.

[15:35] Second by Paul discuss.

[15:41] Yes, I'll just add that as I was looking over this this morning and remembering how

[15:45] many times we've talked about this before.

[15:48] We just need to get something down and proved and it's likely things will come up

[15:53] that might turn us to want to change this but until we

[15:56] have something adopted that covers what we've talked about.

[16:01] We could spin our wheels a lot trying to get us to find to exactly the way we think

[16:06] we want and then something will come up so I agree that

[16:09] we should prove this version and see how far it takes us.

[16:14] Okay.

[16:17] Other thoughts.

[16:21] This reads a whole lot better than the version 6061.

[16:27] I would agree I think it's time to give it a try.

[16:31] No further discussion with emotion in a second all in favor.

[16:36] I oppose motion carries we have updated set policy.

[16:44] Number 10 electric parallel generation PSC by back.

[16:49] PSC tariff update and GL you join the filing authorization that is a mouthful.

[16:56] Yes.

[16:59] So this item relates to how much of the utility compensates customers who generate

[17:03] their own electricity primarily through rooftop

[17:05] solar and provide the access back to our system.

[17:09] We currently have about 55 customers with customer generation and I should note

[17:13] that not all of them actually have access to maybe remember here half ish.

[17:20] I have access at least a few months of the

[17:23] year and generally it's the summer months.

[17:27] Our existing buyback rate is six point one eight cents per kilowatt hour and this

[17:31] is basically generate based generally on our available power cost.

[17:36] And what happens every year is Joe and team put together updated voice basically

[17:40] looks at our hard bills figures out what that updated cost is at this minute to the

[17:44] PSC in January usually by February March

[17:47] or maybe April depending how fast they are.

[17:49] They update that rate and that updates how much we pay for access.

[17:54] And so we have a lot of that back in 2018 is when that structure got put in place

[17:57] and at that time customers that had solar

[17:59] systems already installed were grandfathered in.

[18:02] So they were grandfathered for 10 years which goes to the end of next year. So they

[18:06] actually are grandfathered in where they get the full retail rate back.

[18:11] So that could be nine cents or somewhere in the nine cents.

[18:19] Over the past 18 months the public service commission

[18:22] Wisconsin has approved changes for Wisconsin utilities.

[18:25] They basically started with the industrial utilities and now we're starting to see

[18:29] movement to the municipalities and should note that cooperatives aren't governed by

[18:32] the public service commission they make their own rules locally.

[18:36] They don't have any PSC oversight.

[18:38] But anyway they changed the methodology and looking to move more from an avoided

[18:42] cost structure into a market based approach rather than using a single avoid a cost

[18:48] rate the proposed methodology considers myself their energy market their capacity

[18:52] market to figure out along with distribution

[18:54] losses to figure out that bio buyback should be.

[18:59] We looked at how this methodology would affect our customers over the past three

[19:02] years overall and you paid about just over thirty thousand dollars in apparel

[19:07] generation credits under the proposed methodology we'd estimate the credits would

[19:11] have been approximately twenty six thousand

[19:13] dollars or about four thousand dollars less.

[19:17] I think the more important thing to be considering here is that the methodology

[19:20] would better align what we pay our customers for generation based on what the

[19:24] market is that may be the volatility or the changes in our wholesale supply because

[19:29] as we know right now we have a certain structure as we look to the future.

[19:33] Martin you know we're pivoting into a different structure that's going to create

[19:37] volatility and giving a market signal is probably is a better approach and that's

[19:41] why the PSC is pushing people towards that.

[19:45] The utilities members have been monitoring some of the impacts of the PSC and the

[19:50] changes is now considering a joint PSC filing so there are basically a number of

[19:55] utilities would go together and submit basically one filing to the state.

[20:00] This joint filing would allow us to share in the regulatory consulting costs that

[20:04] filing versus filing individually so there's a kind of scale savings there.

[20:08] The structure of everyone's tariff would essentially be the same.

[20:13] What would generally what happens during a PSC filing is that there is a

[20:16] grandfathering period so even if we did make a change that started they'll say next

[20:19] year that PSC would likely have an order point in there that requires a five or ten

[20:24] year grandfathering period before the new structure would actually take effect.

[20:29] So the question for the commission tonight is if you'd like to participate in the

[20:34] joint filing and pursue an update to our parallel generation tariffs.

[21:16] I'm not sure if you're actually questioning to the customers this is a methodology

[21:18] today but it's always subject to change in

[21:20] the future based on our PSC requirements.

[21:24] I'm sure there are but I guess nothing's I mean.

[21:29] Yeah.

[21:31] I'm just trying to go to a market base so it's what the MISO you know if we were to

[21:34] go to MISO and buy energy or buy capacity that's

[21:37] the rates that the customers would get in turn.

[21:43] And you know they're going to be able to do the same thing annually based on what

[21:45] the new and the big two the structures of three year

[21:47] average look back basically to create the rate for the next year.

[22:00] But it's and in that you were installs in the future.

[22:04] Would that will have any impact on how these

[22:07] rates are determined in the future or or not.

[22:11] Yeah there's nothing from a taxation perspective that's associated with it.

[22:15] There hasn't been in the past and I guess for legislation may go I don't see it but

[22:20] it's unlikely unlikely from my perspective that would see correlation.

[22:29] Nick do you have a sense of what the cost of this filing would be. It looks like

[22:33] this change would save the utility a little bit of money but it could cost us more

[22:39] to go through the filing process than what we'd be saving.

[22:47] So if we do a full rate case it's a pretty costly endeavor. This is called a tariff

[22:53] edit so it's usually a little less. It is less because it's just an added to our

[22:58] tariff of 30 or 40 pages and now we're only talking about maybe five pages.

[23:04] So actually only doing the subside.

[23:05] However there would be a savings. I have to quantify it. I would guess if I had to

[23:15] guess maybe instead of 10,000 it's only one to two thousand.

[23:20] It really depends on how many people intervene in the process and how long it takes

[23:25] to go through that. If it becomes contested by

[23:28] interveners and working through that process and the legal cost.

[23:32] But being split amongst 10 others versus solving ourselves definitely savings.

[23:38] Right and the follow up would be if this is the direction PSC is going is it going

[23:43] to be a sooner or later thing this is would be expected that we'd go this direction

[23:48] and if so that would make sense to do with one of the else.

[23:52] Yeah, I mean sometimes it takes the PSC a while before they kind of standardized on

[23:57] something and since there's just one utility at this point, it may not if we would

[24:01] do it through a full rate case tomorrow, it may not be

[24:04] that they make that up to you but I could see in the future.

[24:06] Sturgeon Bay is a part of joint exchange called WPPI in my conversations with them.

[24:12] It sounds like they have a number of their members that want to file. So I think

[24:15] that to your point it's moving in the path

[24:18] where it would be the standard structure.

[25:00] I guess is what I'm trying to ask.

[25:09] I guess regardless of what we do it's just a matter of you paying 100% of the cost.

[25:17] If you do it by yourself versus if you do a 10 others you only pay 10% of that cost

[25:22] and to say if it's if you if you wait four years five years it'd be whatever the

[25:30] increase in labor costs from the attorney that

[25:33] would help with filing things and that sort of thing.

[25:34] I'm not talking about the cost of filing. I'm talking

[25:36] about the calculation model change produces a savings.

[25:43] I would say that it's a good question. When we analyze the numbers what I found was

[25:57] we have two different size of customers. We have our PGS one which are 20 KW or

[26:01] less and we have our PGS two which are 20 KW or more.

[26:04] And with the way the rights are structured the PGS one customer would see a

[26:10] decrease while the PGS two would actually see an increase because they're getting

[26:15] more they're getting accreditation for their capacity if you will. Whereas the

[26:19] smaller ones are not given how the structure is.

[26:23] So the savings increase, decrease. Good question.

[26:32] Probably depends if more 20 KW and larger come on board versus less. Right. Yeah.

[26:37] With the reduction in tax credit we're going to see

[26:39] less new installations and less something changes there.

[26:43] Yeah it's hard to say because you also have the factor of changes prop hands or the

[26:48] property changes hands and how they use electricity

[26:51] if it's less or more could create less or more excess.

[26:56] We also have over time these efficiencies of these units they have a decrease in

[27:00] factor of what we're seeing with the larger system is a half a percent. So every

[27:04] year they should in theory they should have about a

[27:06] half a percent decrease so they should see less excess.

[27:09] So then that should lessen the amount.

[27:14] I would also note that as I mentioned the grandfather if we take the grandfathered

[27:20] and provide them lower rates than that Delta

[27:23] that I originally talked about would be less.

[27:26] You know from where we're expecting the current study to where they are today that

[27:31] number will come down naturally just because of the grandfather period ending.

[27:38] I said something about grandfathered. Grandfather property changes hands

[27:42] grandfather property changes hands as it's still grandfathered and you go in there.

[27:48] What was the initial motivation for the change in general.

[27:54] 2018 change or this change.

[27:58] It's a.

[28:01] We kind of follow the investor utilities so they kind of went through the process

[28:05] first and they came back with a rate methodology that's market based basically

[28:10] using the market to the MISO market to be the one that sets the rates.

[28:14] It's more.

[28:18] It's in Jersey quality across all utilities to some entry for that buyback versus

[28:24] us each having our own different methodology could trade in differences.

[28:33] It's a philosophy.

[28:36] Is trying to go on.

[28:40] Seems like it just comes down to when is the least expensive time to do such.

[28:46] Number one and number two. Are there any other cross

[28:48] subsidizations that are still going on in the solar transmission.

[28:57] Yeah I mean it still happen unfortunately. Yeah it does.

[29:01] Especially on a residential customer because let's say you have you and I both own

[29:05] homes are identical and every and we use the

[29:07] same amount of power but I have solar and you count.

[29:10] Well the utilities investment to provide you

[29:12] power is the same investment they had to make me.

[29:14] On a monthly basis I'm consuming a much less electricity or maybe in selling back

[29:20] access to now the utilities not recouping that fixed cost to extend services so

[29:25] that you're having even all the others that don't have solar

[29:28] are paying higher rate to subsidize me that the same equipment.

[29:34] And unfortunately until we get to time to use rates

[29:36] and even demand billing for residential customers.

[29:39] Unfortunately that piece is going to continue.

[29:42] So some of this bill is often changes also slowly working out that cross

[29:48] subsidization. Yeah you're starting to see more.

[29:52] I want to say Mg and e might be residential time of use

[29:55] is automatic you have to request to be in on time of use.

[29:59] Whereas here we have one customer time to

[30:01] use residential and turn on our employees.

[30:03] It's a rate that customers can have that no one wants and I signed up for it.

[30:08] But I think Phil softly across the United States you're starting to see that move

[30:11] in and some of the drive demand rates as well we're basically the man rate is take

[30:15] the whole all the hours in the month and basically

[30:18] look at what was your worst hour was your highest usage.

[30:21] You want one hour and there's a rate associated that that's

[30:24] what our commercial and industrial customers are rebuilding.

[30:28] And that helps you equate to the equipment that's needed to provide the service.

[30:33] Because it's so there's this set up to settle each month or

[30:36] does it have lost or carry over every month till end of year.

[30:41] There's some terminology in the order point I

[30:42] think that it's there's I think it was a chill.

[30:46] They can have as far as if they have access. They have to request to refund.

[30:53] Definitely.

[30:55] We'll just settle up at the end of the year.

[30:57] Generally.

[30:58] Energy savings account.

[31:05] I just wonder because Clark County they set up in December is what I've told. Just.

[31:11] Generally don't have customers running large negative.

[31:16] Balance.

[31:19] Majority of the ones that I looked at other than a media.

[31:23] They're providing access from June July and August maybe in September the other

[31:28] months they're using more power than they can.

[31:32] So maybe you're 20.

[31:35] Correct.

[31:36] Yeah there's a couple there.

[31:37] There's a couple larger customers who are probably providing them refunds.

[31:43] Any factory transmission costs on this as well.

[31:46] There's a place holder for transmission but through the filings.

[31:50] What is then.

[31:55] The output is really bad that there is no savings from a transmission perspective.

[32:01] So that is in there as a placeholder but

[32:03] given zero dollars in the credit calculation.

[32:07] The transmission providers have been able to show through reports and analysis.

[32:11] That's the case.

[32:17] So what do we think it.

[32:26] Seems like it's a two stage decision.

[32:29] We get on board with the philosophy changers.

[32:32] If you're going to get on board.

[32:35] It's not the time.

[32:36] Is there a better time.

[32:40] Well piece of that is you know right now we're talking about a four thousand dollar

[32:44] difference even if it grows a little bit.

[32:47] If you're looking at only having to pay one tenth we get one shot at that.

[32:52] Because I assume who is going to continue forward.

[32:56] With or without.

[32:57] Yeah there are.

[32:59] We mentioned we updated in 2018 there are a number of utilities that did do that.

[33:04] So there's still providing retail rate as the payment for access which.

[33:11] So there's savings.

[33:13] Correct.

[33:15] So from that standpoint.

[33:17] The savings.

[33:19] The savings we would gain from being one out of ten versus one alone.

[33:22] Is probably at least as much.

[33:26] Larger larger.

[33:28] So to me it makes sense to go forward.

[33:31] And be a part of the group.

[33:34] Yeah.

[33:36] One other thing to consider is that the methodology we use today is pretty

[33:39] straightforward and the ability we're able to take our wholesale bill.

[33:43] From Wisconsin Public Service and provide those numbers as we look to the future.

[33:47] And not being that simple.

[33:49] Having some other resource like this is looking at would be much more easy to

[33:54] administer and to provide to our customers.

[34:01] More transparent backward looking but harder to predict

[34:05] for someone wanting to know what they might get credited.

[34:11] Looking out into the future.

[34:13] Correct.

[34:14] No different than it is today.

[34:17] That's true.

[34:18] Changes every year.

[34:19] Yep.

[34:23] Yes.

[34:24] I was leaning toward what Paul was saying earlier.

[34:26] Earlier about now is the right time to do this because of the cost.

[34:30] Savings and sharing in that cost.

[34:32] But what Nick said earlier about maybe we would be an early adopter on this if

[34:37] Sturgeon Bay is one of the first and there's a few others looking at it.

[34:39] But if PSC hasn't settled into it, this is the methodology going forward.

[34:44] Is there a chance there would be another one of these

[34:46] coming up in a few years where PSC has changed the rules?

[34:50] Now we've got to go back and do what we've just done.

[34:53] I mean in 2018 there's been eight years and since the last time this has changed.

[34:57] But is this the last time it would change I guess is the question.

[35:00] And maybe you can answer that.

[35:02] Not likely.

[35:03] Yeah.

[35:04] I mean I would.

[35:06] The investor utilities are generally using that structure.

[35:09] So it's not as though I mean while the minister

[35:11] does there's only one minister with that structure.

[35:14] There's investor utilities represent a much greater share of the state.

[35:18] So there's that.

[35:20] Yeah.

[35:21] I mean there's always a risk.

[35:23] You know my so is the reference here and if they change how they administer those

[35:26] program and the energy market has been pretty stable capacity market is generally

[35:30] stable but has gone through some changes.

[35:32] From an annual number to a seasonal number.

[35:35] So I mean there's definitely some potential that there could be some changes.

[35:39] I think you always run that risk.

[35:43] As far as looking backwards generally no it would you

[35:46] know whatever if there was a new structure they would say OK.

[35:50] Now going forward this will be the new structure.

[35:53] Yeah.

[35:54] That's what if that would happen there would be a bunch of

[35:56] other folks who would want to have to make the same change.

[35:57] And so you can get in with the group again.

[36:00] Yeah.

[36:01] If that came out another eight to ten years.

[36:10] Under a single source contract right now.

[36:13] The methodology that we've had aligns pretty well with that.

[36:17] As we move into a market based.

[36:20] More of a market based system in a way from that single source contract.

[36:26] The new proposed concept aligns better with our future.

[36:34] And at this point in my mind it's purely a philosophical thing the cost is so.

[36:38] Yeah.

[36:40] The cost difference is so negligible.

[36:42] But it seems to me that the closer the alignment and philosophy is between how we

[36:46] pay for our energy and how we credit our energy.

[36:51] Reduces the chances of cross subsidization

[36:53] between our solar and non solar customers.

[36:58] So in my mind again it comes back to it

[37:02] makes sense to do it but at the lowest cost.

[37:16] When do you need a decision on this.

[37:18] Because I'm not sensing strong consensus.

[37:22] I believe we were targeting in October or November finally.

[37:29] So I mean it's possible we could wait until the next meeting.

[37:34] Obviously I'd ask the condition what more information I

[37:37] can provide you to help you with your decision making.

[37:43] Given that top line.

[37:46] Where's everybody at.

[37:51] I take a motion to to prove the change and to go with glue to join in the joint.

[37:59] The joint action joint filing.

[38:01] Second.

[38:04] Yes.

[38:05] Is.

[38:06] Too many new members here.

[38:11] All right. We have a motion in the second any further discussion.

[38:17] All in favor.

[38:19] All right.

[38:22] Motion carries.

[38:25] Number 11.

[38:26] You.

[38:27] Project resolution.

[38:30] Yes so this item relates to the proposed geo you marshall.

[38:34] This resolution formally confirms that I'm using tennis to participate in a project

[38:39] with a 30 percent ownership interest with the remaining remaining interest.

[38:44] The project is being developed as a natural gas generation with fuel backup

[38:48] resource here in Marshfield to provide long

[38:50] term capacity energy and reliability benefits.

[38:53] The purpose of the resolution is really to document our intended participation and

[38:58] allow us to continue to project development.

[39:02] It authorizes our staff and consultants legal counsel and others to continue to

[39:05] work through this ownership structure with construction operating agreements site

[39:11] arrangements financial costs allocation whether it's or requirements.

[39:15] This referendum doesn't bind us financially to any financial commitment other than

[39:20] those those costs that were occurring now from bidding and permitting and such

[39:25] before we would be obligated to fund construction and her debt.

[39:31] That revenues and to enter into the final agreement those items will come back to

[39:35] the commission and council for review and approval.

[39:38] If you're if the commission is supportive of moving forward with this resolution

[39:42] tonight they would then be presented to the common council

[39:44] for the consideration of slightly at the September 22nd meeting.

[39:50] Sir motion to approve this resolution.

[39:54] I'll move to approve the motion by Mike second by Dan discussion.

[40:01] Just to confirm Nick the resolution firms are intent to participate but doesn't

[40:08] define the size or scope of that project evolving.

[40:12] Yes.

[40:20] Discussion.

[40:23] The next step.

[40:26] Very long and windy.

[40:28] Yes.

[40:29] All right.

[40:29] We have a motion in the second.

[40:30] All in favor.

[40:31] I oppose.

[40:34] Motion carries.

[40:38] 12 job orders.

[41:00] No.

[41:01] Number 13 bills and payroll.

[41:06] Sir motion to pay bills to approve the bills and pay.

[41:10] So Paul second.

[41:13] Second.

[41:15] Discussion.

[41:18] I would say over time is higher with the

[41:19] generally related to operating in the power plant.

[41:22] Hours around hours.

[41:24] So that's where a lot of that that higher

[41:26] percentage share if you will in the payroll.

[41:30] And just to note on general bills were general bills were pre payments.

[41:34] I think it's probably known but so pre payments are those the correct people.

[41:39] Pre payments are those that we've already paid because they have like a net net

[41:43] term that was going to occur before the commission meeting or they're just regular

[41:47] payments that we make versus general bills are those

[41:49] that are still outstanding and haven't been paid yet.

[41:52] So you're proving both sides.

[41:56] All right.

[41:58] Thank you for the added color.

[42:00] We have a motion to second all the paper.

[42:02] I opposed.

[42:06] All right.

[42:06] That motion carries.

[42:08] Previous meeting minutes from August 10 meetings are motion to approve those.

[42:14] So by Nate second by seconded Mike.

[42:19] Any proposed changes.

[42:22] If not all in favor.

[42:25] Opposed.

[42:27] Motion carries back to adding for financial reports.

[42:31] This month.

[43:00] I mean it looks good having a footnotes and it's helpful.

[43:03] So that was good.

[43:05] And then on the cash.

[43:07] The cash account status.

[43:10] There's just two bar graphs for July August.

[43:12] What will happen is our intent there is it

[43:14] would be more of a one year or two year look.

[43:17] Sure.

[43:18] Hopefully there was self and then you can

[43:20] see in the description of the key if you will.

[43:23] It says the target and then the numbers

[43:26] within the graphs are showing more of a wrap.

[43:29] I would note that the cash.

[43:31] The cash account status.

[43:34] The unrestricted funds is at 115.

[43:36] That target is at 120.

[43:38] I think we're starting to recognize that in the policy we

[43:40] may need to make a change because that volatility is timing.

[43:43] There are parts.

[43:44] Time is during the month and we're actually over 120.

[43:46] But the last day of the month this is when we start to put together.

[43:49] If we're not above or below.

[43:51] So that's what's causing the volatility.

[43:55] It wouldn't surprise me with the changes we

[43:57] made that we would discover some things like that.

[44:01] The cash flow summary will be added a five year or four year look if you will.

[44:05] And that's how graphically you're going to see.

[44:08] And that's the net of inflow and outflows.

[44:11] You can see in April in November when you

[44:13] have bond payments and pilot payments and such.

[44:16] Where principal interest responds and then pilot and

[44:19] then an excess or a negative cash flow if you will.

[44:23] And the other ones are generally positive.

[44:27] January you can see sometimes you're at some negative.

[44:29] I'm guessing that's usually like a road project.

[44:32] I need to report to come up for information only.

[44:40] So it's just questions.

[44:42] Who's got questions?

[44:49] No questions.

[44:51] The session for Wisconsin State statute 19.85.

[44:56] See considering employment promotion compensation or performance evaluation data of

[45:02] any public employee over which the governmental

[45:04] body has jurisdiction or exercises responsibility.

[45:08] For the purposes of discussing the commission's self evaluation and personal.

[45:14] And approval to go into closed session for Wisconsin State statute 19.85.

[45:19] Deliberating or negotiating the purchasing of public properties the investment of

[45:24] public funds or conducting other specified public business.

[45:28] Whenever competitive or bargaining reasons require a closed session.

[45:32] For the purpose of discussing well number 19

[45:34] and number 24 access he's went to agreement.

[45:37] Our field generation project proposals in

[45:41] Wisconsin Public Service Corporation term sheet.

[45:44] Is there a motion to go into closed session.

[45:48] John second by second.

[45:52] Thank you.

[45:53] Brian.

[45:55] All in favor.

[46:02] Opposed.

[46:04] Take a minute to week before we can.

Marshfield UTILITY COMMISSION MEETING

Transcript