[0:00] All

[0:06] right, good morning everyone. We do have 9:00 a.m. as you just heard. We're now

[0:08] recording. So, this hearing this hearing is now in session. My name is Carl

[0:13] Granth. Uh I am the hearing examiner for the city of Spokane and I also serve as

[0:17] the hearing examiner prom for Medical Lake. Uh my assistant is Kimberly

[0:22] McIntyre. She's going to be acting as a clerk for today's hearing. And um again,

[0:28] just to reiterate, uh the hearing is being

[0:30] recorded. For the record, today is Wednesday, May 14th, 2025. It's about

[0:35] 9:00 a.m. We are located in the Medical Lake City Hall.

[0:40] The item scheduled to be heard at this time is a variance application with file

[0:43] number LU2024-032 VA by Fox Ridge Homeowners

[0:48] Association to construct a monument sign in the center medium of the North Fox

[0:54] Ridge Road rideway located at the intersection of North Graham Road and

[0:57] North Fox Ridge Road in Medical Lake, Washington in the single family

[1:02] residential zone. Uh so to start with a summary of our process, uh we're going

[1:07] to start with a staff report. um uh from the planner for the city of med medical

[1:11] lake uh Miss Eliza Rodriguez and so we'll provide an overview of the project

[1:16] and also context for further discussion and public comment and I'll be asking

[1:20] questions during that portion as well. Uh next we'll have testimony from the

[1:23] applicant uh who is Mr. Carl Mson on behalf of the Fox Ridge Homeowners

[1:28] Association uh along with any other witnesses that the applicant wants to

[1:31] call along with their presentation. Um then we'll move to our public testimony

[1:36] portion of today's hearing. Uh and when we get there, um we'll we'll go in the

[1:42] the list that everyone signed up. I prioritize people who show up in person

[1:45] and then we'll move to anyone who may be connected via Zoom. Uh I'm going to

[1:50] allow up to five minutes for each person. Uh but I will do a hard stop at

[1:54] the five minutes. I I have some discretion about how long to give for

[1:57] public comment. Um, based on the size of of the crowd, I think five minutes um is

[2:03] plenty. It usually ranges from three to five minutes. So, I'll allow you up to

[2:07] five minutes, but I will put a hard stop in your testimony at 5

[2:11] minutes. Um, following public testimony, uh, both, uh, city staff and the

[2:16] applicant will have an opportunity to provide rebuttal testimony, answer

[2:19] questions, address concerns, anything they so wish. Um, and at the conclusion

[2:24] of the meeting, as always, the final word goes to the applicant.

[2:29] So, um, a couple other preliminary matters. I did conduct a site visit this

[2:33] morning on our way, uh, here to city hall. Um, I'm generally familiar with

[2:37] the project and its surroundings. I have reviewed the file. It's on staff or that

[2:41] the staff provided uh, that's part of the record. So, I am generally familiar

[2:45] with the proposal and the project site. My decisions are in writing, so they're

[2:50] not going to be made at this hearing. Um, under the ordinance, I have 14

[2:53] calendar days on which to complete my decision.

[2:58] My decisions on variances are final unless they are appealed uh to the

[3:02] medical lake city council. A written appeal to the hearing examiner's

[3:06] decision must be filed to the city medical lake to 10 working days from the

[3:10] date of hearing um or for the date of my final decision and that information will

[3:14] be in my decision as well. So, uh looks like we have about a dozen members of

[3:20] the public here today. Um, so I'll go over some of these procedures again, but

[3:24] I'm going to have you uh state your name and address when you come up and I'll

[3:27] have you swear an oath uh before you provide

[3:29] testimony. Um, other than that, do we have any other questions or

[3:32] administrative concerns before we begin? No.

[3:36] Okay. All right. Uh, let's proceed with the over overview by the planning

[3:39] department. Mr. Rodriguez.

[4:02] Okay. So, I'm going to summarize the staff report that was re received by our

[4:06] hearings officer and there was a copy at the entrance if anyone picked it up.

[4:12] Um, sorry, is the clipper working today or

[4:23] Um, Mr. Grandmath just went over the process um, from this day forward. So, I

[4:28] will just back up a little bit. This application was submitted on December

[4:33] 20th, deemed complete on January 17th. Um, the applicant asked to place a hold

[4:39] on the application at that time because he was going to be out of the country

[4:44] for a bit. So, he came back and took the the application off hold March 13th. Um,

[4:51] and then we arranged for this hearing and he mailed the notice of application

[4:58] to all property owners within 300 ft of the site, posted a sign on the site, and

[5:06] published a notice of the public hearing in the Cheney Free Press. The comments

[5:12] period closed on May 7th, last Wednesday. And here we are at the the

[5:17] public

[5:25] hearing. One of these days this thing's going to work, but not

[5:29] today. Okay. the vicinity map. Uh the red circle represents the intersection

[5:36] of North Graham Road and Fox Ridge Road, which is the first intersection for the

[5:41] Fox Ridge and Fox South subdivisions uh heading from the south from uh Highway

[5:48] 902. Next, please. Um this is a zoom in on the

[5:54] site. We have this the the property lines from the scout website. We have an

[5:59] aerial where you can see the road, the street that's in question um has a grass

[6:07] median in the center and on the right is the recorded plat which is difficult to

[6:14] read at the scale. Um, and I have another slide where it's zoomed in a

[6:19] bit, but essentially we are dealing with an 80 foot ride ofway for that first

[6:26] block and the block is about 145 ft. Next slide. Uh, so this is a photo of

[6:33] the site looking straight on standing across Graham looking at North Fox

[6:39] Road. Uh, there's the median in the center. It's approximately 10 feet wide.

[6:44] We have five foot sidewalks on each side and uh the the grass and trees the

[6:50] landscaping on either side are in the public rightway. The edge of rightway is

[6:55] the fence line or essentially so on this site. Next slide. This is taken um from

[7:04] from the north looking southeast generally at the

[7:09] intersection. So you can see the median and the curb stop line. The actual um

[7:17] Graham Road is still a little further. It's out of the picture. So from the tip

[7:23] of that median to the intersection of Graham Road, it's a little over 30 feet.

[7:29] From the tip of the median to that stop bar is 12 to 15 feet.

[7:37] So the applicant is requesting a variance to allow a subdivision entrance

[7:43] monument sign to be allowed in the public right ofway. Our municipal code

[7:49] states that they should be located on private

[7:55] property. Uh if you could go back one slide please. Um, so the image on the

[8:00] right shows the Foxbridgeidge monument sign that's being proposed and on the

[8:05] left is the site plan showing the sign the monument sign in the median towards

[8:12] the west end of the median. And I want to point out at this time that the

[8:18] applicant in the proposal had two pillars on either side of the street um

[8:24] as part of the drawings. Those are not being reviewed in this because they are

[8:28] not signs. They will require a permit from our public works department to be

[8:34] built in the public right of way but our code our municipal code does not speak

[8:39] to that directly. Um so we are only looking at the sign the in the median

[8:46] today. Next slide please. So the approval criteria. Um, so I just want to

[8:52] take a moment. I know um from citizens that have come in to speak with me on

[8:57] phones that there's some contention in the neighborhood um between the

[9:02] residents and the homeowners association. And I just want it to be

[9:06] clear that this decision is based on the approval criteria that is spelled out in

[9:10] our municipal code. And it is not um a vote of the people. And

[9:18] um there if this variance is approved, it is not mandatory that this monument

[9:25] sign is built that is still up to the homeowners association. So this um

[9:31] variance if it is approved simply gives the right for um the homeowners

[9:36] association to apply for a public works permit and building permit in order to

[9:42] um construct this this site. So um the approval criteria which is

[9:49] um complete in the staff report here I've

[9:54] summarized number one the variance does not constitute the granting of a special

[9:58] privilege inconsistent with the limitations upon other

[10:02] properties. Number two strict application of the zoning code is found

[10:07] to deprive the property of rights and privileges enjoyed by other properties.

[10:13] And three, granting the variance will not be detrimental to the public welfare

[10:18] or injurous to property or improvements in the

[10:22] vicinity. So to describe, we saw the photos earlier, but this sign is being

[10:28] proposed in the rightway of North Fox Ridge Road, which is the first entrance

[10:34] for the Fox Ridge and Fox Ridge South subdivisions. When arriving from the

[10:37] south, the Fox Ridge Road has an 80 foot rideway at its entrance. There's a 10

[10:43] foot wide median in the center uh 32 feet back from the intersection. The

[10:48] site is surrounded by single family houses to the southeast and north with a

[10:52] vacant property across Graham Road that is zone commercial. Um and as far as

[10:58] other subdivision entry signs in the city, we have two other um entry signs

[11:03] that are boulders with the inscription uh on them.

[11:10] Uh, and both of those are located on private property, not in the

[11:14] rightway. So, this is a closer um depiction of the recorded plat. And the

[11:23] red circles show the rightway width. So, the entry is an 80 foot rideway, 40t on

[11:29] each side from center, and the two other circles show 25 feet for each side,

[11:34] therefore 50 foot rideways. Um and that is consistent throughout this shows

[11:40] south Fox South, but it is consistent through Fox Ridge. Um there's three

[11:45] entrances, all of them are 80 ft and um the rest of the subdivision has 50

[11:51] foot rightways.

[11:56] So, something that I find unusual about this particular plat because this is a

[12:00] recorded plat is that these yellow areas um labeled on the plat say 10-ft

[12:06] landscape area. I find this unusual because um it's in the public rightway

[12:13] and I honestly haven't seen that on a plat before. uh flats often time have

[12:18] tracks uh that will be commonly owned or they will have easements on um

[12:23] individual lots for the purpose of um signage or landscaping. In this

[12:30] instance, u there are these noted landscape areas to either side, but as

[12:36] you can see in the photo on the right, what got built, um we do have the

[12:40] landscaping on the sides, but we also have the median, which I found no um

[12:46] documentation regarding this median and how it came about. So the next slide um

[12:52] this is not perfect but basically I overlide overlaid the plat and the

[12:57] aerial to show um that it's pretty close maybe not exact but pretty close the

[13:05] planting areas on either side behind the sidewalk do match pretty well the um the

[13:12] landscaping that exists and then that median in the middle um it would not

[13:17] typically be shown on a plat so it's just right away. So, I would not expect

[13:21] it to be there, but it is what got built. Next

[13:25] slide. Comments I received, uh, the Medical Lake Public Works Department

[13:30] reviewed the plans and is not concerned about the proposed location or size of

[13:35] the monument. Um, I received three written

[13:39] comments. Popsmith sent an email expressing concerns of safety when it's

[13:44] slippery, noting that um when we have snow, that intersection he considers to

[13:50] be dangerous and folks might slide towards the median. Uh Ted Adams

[13:56] expressed discontent with how the HOA is spending their money and told Ted Olsen

[14:00] submitted a petition with signatures of area residents opposing the

[14:06] sign. the findings. To summarize, you can see the complete si findings in the

[14:10] staff report, but to summarize, um the medical a municipal code allows

[14:17] any subdivision to have an entry sign as long as it's not taller than six feet

[14:22] and it's located outside of the rightway.

[14:25] Uh, in this particular instance, the ride ofway for North Fox Ridge is 30

[14:30] foot wider at the entrance and there's no private property or easements that

[14:35] were set aside for landscaping, leaving only the public right away for

[14:39] landscaping or signage. And so um doing research in the

[14:45] preliminary plat I was unable to locate the final plat file um to see if there

[14:51] is any discussion for instance of the median that was developed um but I could

[14:56] only go on what was provided in our preliminary plat file and there's very

[15:01] limited information regarding the entrance and the landscaping. It was

[15:05] noted that um there would be entrance landscaping but past that there wasn't

[15:11] any information But based on the fact that they made

[15:16] this rightway larger, I think it is possible that they did that in order to

[15:21] provide for the landscaping. And then um it would also provide for a landscape

[15:28] monument, although that was also never mentioned in any of the written

[15:33] documentation I could find in our preliminary plat file. Um and finally,

[15:38] the proposed sign being in the median quite a distance back from the

[15:41] intersection does not impede visual clearance for

[15:46] traffic. Uh the recommendation is that the variance to locate the subdivision

[15:52] entrance sign as depicted in exhibit A3 allowed be allowed in the existing

[15:59] median of North Fox.

[16:05] Okay. Thank you for your presentation. I do I do have quite a few questions for

[16:09] you. Yes. Um I guess to try to figure out the best

[16:14] way to what order to ask them in. So um can you tell me a little bit more

[16:20] about the public works permit they're going to get to locate this in the ride

[16:23] of way? Is it uh is is there going to be any sort of legal agreement that's

[16:27] executed along with that or what is the are there conditions in the permit etc.

[16:32] Right. So, I am not party to that's a public works permit. So, I'm not

[16:37] involved in the review, but um they do if there's a maintenance agreement

[16:43] needed, they would require a maintenance agreement in order to have um

[16:49] essentially a private a private construction and a public.

[16:55] Okay. So yeah, along with that, um, basically thinking about the

[17:01] scenarios because the you're not going to vacate the property, it's still going

[17:04] to be public right away. It'll be a privatelyowned sign structure in the

[17:10] median. So I'm wondering about future hypothetical situations. Say someone

[17:15] does slide and crash into it. How's the city approaching potential future

[17:20] liability? um or if the sign becomes dilapitated or

[17:25] the city wants to take the rightway back um change it how costs are aortioned if

[17:31] that is being thought of ahead of time or going to be put into an agreement.

[17:34] Uh, I believe that would be considered during the right of way agreement or

[17:38] excuse me, the right of way [Music]

[17:48] permit and you don't have to disclose attorney client um, communications, but

[17:54] did did you consult your legal department about these types of

[17:57] scenarios? We did not.

[18:15] Um, okay. So, um, I guess kind of keeping in that same vein a little

[18:23] bit. So, it does. So, okay, real quick. So, you weren't able to find your

[18:27] internal uh file for the final plat, right? Is it

[18:32] was the final plan recorded? It is recorded. Okay. Were you able to take a

[18:37] look at that and see if there was any comments or conditions or

[18:42] alterations to that? Um I'm sorry. The the plot itself was recorded. I did not

[18:47] find a decision. No. Uh, the city council minutes make

[18:53] the statement that it was voted and

[18:58] approved and the final flat is signed by the city, including the mayor.

[19:09] Right. So, you know, I I guess I I sort of agree there's some interesting

[19:14] aspects to the to the to the plat map and I guess maybe agree with your

[19:18] assessment that it's Um perhaps maybe these should have been private tracks or

[19:24] I guess we can only hypothesize at this point.

[19:29] Um so did you did you consider alternative measures to address this

[19:34] instead of a variance say a plat alteration? If you think a mistake was

[19:37] made then you could alter the plat or a waiver or there's other

[19:44] um avenues to approach. Do you believe a mistake was made on the plat? Um, we

[19:49] didn't consider that a mistake was made on the

[19:53] plot. We thought it more likely that there were discussions and verbal

[20:00] agreements rather than written agreements by the parties at the time.

[20:08] That's kind of just your best guess. That's our best guess.

[20:13] The people that were involved are no longer working for the city.

[20:29] And again, I know you just said this, but you

[20:32] have no record of an agreement to build a median there. That's That's correct.

[20:38] the um the homeowners association uh takes care of the landscaping in the

[20:47] the right of way including irrigation and um they have done so

[20:53] since it was constructed but I have not been able to locate any formal agreement

[20:59] regarding that.

[21:04] So then so then obviously then there's no rightaway permit or anything from

[21:08] public works. That's correct. Originally that's

[21:17] would a potential future agreement between public works and the HOA maybe

[21:21] try to resolve some of these and put to paper what's basically already existing

[21:25] on the ground? That's certainly possible.

[21:43] Okay. So, um I want to turn to the criteria of approval. Um kind of dig

[21:51] into a couple of the key terms here. So, um for granting a special

[21:59] privilege. So, we have in the code right now that you're just blanket not allowed

[22:04] to put signs in the rightway. The subdivision subdivision sign entrance

[22:08] signs. That's correct. Are there are there other ways that people can put

[22:12] signs in the public right away? Not subdivision signs like business signs or

[22:17] political political signs or something like that. There are situations, yes.

[22:22] Um certainly political signs are allowed in the public right of way, temporary

[22:27] signs, um advertising events are allowed in the right of way. How about for

[22:32] permanent signs? Does the city allow permanent signs in the public right

[22:35] away? I could not say that off.

[22:58] So again because you you basically this variance for us is basically asking to

[23:03] just not apply this one city code provision in this particular situation.

[23:12] Um, do you think that there are special circumstances here

[23:16] that trying to think about how to phrase this question? Um, I'll say frankly this

[23:22] is a little a little bit of an odd request.

[23:27] Um, because of the various portions of this, you know, HOA asking to use public

[23:32] right away and to just basically not have a single code provision apply to

[23:36] them. Um, how do you think this won't create

[23:41] uh this isn't a special privilege that other um other subdivisions might

[23:46] want to use to to put to put it or they'll say,

[23:51] "Okay, you approved it for this one. You didn't apply for provision to this

[23:54] subdivision, so we still can't do it." Or would you be comfortable with other

[24:00] subdivisions saying, "Well, you did it for this one. We should be able to

[24:03] also." Um so in this instance we're not changing the

[24:09] um the improvements at all. So the median exists. So um it's unlikely that

[24:18] another subdivision if they had the st standard 50oot rideway would be for

[24:23] instance allowed to put a median in um changing the improvements and changing

[24:29] the width of the traffic lanes. um having it on the the sides of the

[24:36] rightway adjacent to the sidewalk. Um that I really can't speak for our public

[24:43] works department on that one. Is there a public works representative here today?

[24:49] He's not. Okay. Uh well I I do see the rideway is 80

[24:55] feet wide but there are

[24:59] the hard to tell. Is it 10 foot wide landscape

[25:04] areas? It kind of looks like it might be 15 feet on one side between the fence

[25:08] and the the road roadway edge. It is approximately 10 feet on each side. The

[25:14] u the scout map is a little off the two layers. Um, but when I lined up the two,

[25:22] it it is approximately 10 feet behind the sidewalk on each side to the edge of

[25:26] the red one. Okay. And how wide is the median again?

[25:31] Approximately 10 ft.

[25:36] So 80 minus roughly 30 is about 50. So you have about 50 foot of two 25 foot

[25:41] lanes there right now essentially. Okay.

[25:54] So, if just hypothetically speaking, if they weren't granted this variance, they

[25:59] they're still the homeowner association is still allowed to put a neighborhood

[26:02] sign somewhere, right? On private property. On private property.

[26:08] Did you consider whether there was reasonable alternatives on private

[26:12] property that would require a variance request?

[26:15] Um, we did not consider other

[26:28] alternatives. Okay. So for the special circumstances,

[26:34] um your the criteria number two, uh they don't have the language in here, but

[26:41] um I'm sure you've seen different cities and different codes like unnecessary

[26:45] hardship or some sort of there's lots of different ways these

[26:50] um are worded. Um, but the language in here kind of

[26:57] goes along with that where we're typically looking at, you know, a

[27:01] homeowner owns a parcel and we're going to look at the size, shape, topography,

[27:05] location or surroundings, usually something physical

[27:09] to do with the site that's creating the hardship. Um, and that's in state law in

[27:14] case stuff too. um that if you apply, you know, the strict, you know, the

[27:20] strict uh provisions of the code to their property, then they're going to be

[27:24] deprived of being able to do something like I have a really steep slope, I have

[27:27] a rockout cropping, I'm not going to be able to build a house on here unless you

[27:30] give me a setback. So, how is this situation analogous to those more

[27:34] typical variance requests? Right. I agree. Uh that is exactly the

[27:39] description I would give an applicant if they were looking into a variance in

[27:43] this situation because it's not a private property. Um I took a little bit

[27:48] different view on that which is whatever the agreements were at the time that

[27:54] created the 80 foot ride of way. It basically eliminated the opportunity to

[28:00] put it in public or excuse me on private property.

[28:04] Um so the the restriction is in fact the unusually large

[28:20] right I don't I don't see the language in here so I guess it probably doesn't

[28:24] apply to your code but usually there's some sort of provision that's like has

[28:27] no fault of your you know the applicant can't be the one who creates the

[28:31] hardship. Yeah, that phrase is not inactive.

[28:37] So you don't think that analysis should apply? Did you consider this is you know

[28:42] this was someone's mistake a while ago? The creator of the subdivision

[28:47] essentially maybe the HOA's you know in some long-term connected ways fault so

[28:53] to speak. Yeah. Because it's not part of the criteria didn't consider it.

[29:07] And you think that not allowing them to build a sign

[29:12] in the rideways, depriving them of property, defi depriving the property,

[29:18] again, we're saying public property, but we're depriving the HOA of

[29:25] rights and privileges to to build a sign. they can still build a sign.

[29:31] Uh yeah. So that is the the tricky part and it all comes back to from the

[29:37] information that I was able to gather from the the files

[29:43] available. I think it is very possible that there

[29:48] was intention not necessarily for a sign uh but definitely for enhanced

[29:55] landscaping. Uh there was no uh for instance landscape plan like detailed

[30:02] landscape plan in any of the the files. There was um only a landscape plan that

[30:11] showed like the air the 10 foot areas essentially um but and also a long gram.

[30:16] So essentially all Long Graham and um and then the two

[30:23] entries and actually I'm sorry that was for Fox Ridge. There's they're two

[30:28] different subdivisions. So Fox Ridge, they did have a landscape plan or not a

[30:32] plan but just an area of landscaping showing all along Graham Road and the

[30:37] two other entries. Basically that first block, the first 145t or whatever one

[30:42] lot depth is for those. So based on that that whatever discussions happened in

[30:50] the past that is

[30:54] um so by not granting the variance deprivives them of

[31:02] the normal privilege of having a sign that if the subdivision had been

[31:09] designed in a way that I would consider more typical they would have the space.

[31:15] Like for instance, if someone was doing a subdivision now, I would advise them

[31:19] to do a private tract rather than plan to put anything in the public right away

[31:30] is so in the in this in the subdivision sign part of the code. Um does it say

[31:37] anything about where it's supposed to be located?

[31:40] Not specifically. just just out of it's common for it to

[31:45] be in the main road in and out. Um but it can be located in other places too,

[31:52] right? Yeah. I mean it's called the entrance sign in our code. So entrance

[32:22] Okay, I think that's enough questions for now. Um, if I have some more, I

[32:26] might bring it back up and ask them later, but I'll I'm going to move over

[32:29] to the applicant. Thank you very

[32:32] much. All

[32:37] right. Okay. We have the uh applicants uh opportunity for their presentation or

[32:43] testimony and we have Mr. Carl Mson on behalf of the Foxridge Homeowners

[32:47] Association. Well, this is fascinating listening to

[32:51] your questions and I have to apologize to both of you. This is the first time

[32:55] of course I I wouldn't be able to anticipate what was going to be asked.

[32:59] Okay. Uh Ria, real quick, can I have you go to the podium? There's some just

[33:04] because we're being videotaped. Uh and just have you identify yourself with

[33:07] your voice for the record. MSON medical a Okay. And do you swear or affirm any

[33:12] testimony you give me the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

[33:15] I do. Okay. Please proceed, sir. Yesterday I went door to door with some

[33:20] handouts and um I'm going to give you one whether you need it or not. Okay.

[33:27] I'll take a look at it and then we'll enter it into the record with an exhibit

[33:30] number. And what I said when I went to the doors of the people that I talked to

[33:35] was I'm Carl Mson from Don and East Angie. Uh there have been some

[33:41] misunderstanding with regards to the proposed entry monument. I'm going door

[33:46] todoor and presenting this handout. The first page contains answers to

[33:52] frequently asked questions. The second page shows where the design concept came

[33:58] from. And the third page has the site plan and

[34:03] elevation. Uh tomorrow morning we're going to be having a meeting at city

[34:07] hall at 9:00 and you're certainly welcome to attend. And that's all I

[34:11] said. Some of the people were really interested and one of those uh well was

[34:17] actually a couple. Molly and Bob Deolt were

[34:22] actually the first president and secretary of the homeowners association.

[34:28] they invited me in and uh we got to talking about this and this is the part

[34:35] where I have to apologize to Lisa because I just didn't think of

[34:38] mentioning it. But I mentioned to them that the city uh was having a tough time

[34:45] finding all the records and Molly said, "Oh, well, I've got them." She had kept

[34:51] all the records from when they were secretary and president of the first

[34:55] homeowners association. So Bob went into the

[35:00] bedroom and he came back out with some files and we started going over them and

[35:04] you know I don't remember too much just a lot of words. But one thing that uh

[35:09] was originally proposed and not done was entry monuments at all three entrances.

[35:17] Um, I mention this because it might be relevant and I'm sorry I didn't mention

[35:22] it earlier. Okay. Are these documents you have with

[35:26] you? I'm sorry. Do you have these documents with you? No. Okay. This is

[35:31] something you could get. Yes. For us. Yes. I'll consider that at the end, but

[35:36] that's I I might leave the record open so that you can have those sent over so

[35:40] I can Well, and and Mr. Rodriguez as well, so we can review them before this

[35:44] decision, too. So, yeah, that would be good. Okay, continue. Okay.

[35:50] Uh, I I'll kind of explain how this all came about and I'll try to keep it as

[35:54] short as possible. Uh, I was a commercial real estate appraiser for 50

[35:59] years. I did my first appraisal of a subdivision in Lynen in

[36:04] 1972. The value, as I recall, of the lot, sidewalks, curbs, gutters, all

[36:10] utilities, conduit, so on and so forth, was

[36:16] $3,250. That was then. The last appraisal I did was in

[36:21] Muckle Teal. That was in 2022. Same scenario, no view. And the

[36:28] estimated value was $325,000.

[36:33] $325,000. Of course, wouldn't wash in Medical Lake, uh, where you can still

[36:38] buy a house for $325,000, but that's an indication of

[36:43] what was going on over there. I then retired. Uh, I won't go get into the

[36:49] reasons why I moved to Medical Lake, but I found out about Medical Lake when US

[36:54] Bank sent me over here to do an appraisal of a proposed subdivision on

[36:58] Tulie Pond. And uh it was interesting. Uh I saw

[37:05] tremendous potential for this area. You've got West Medical Lake, Medical

[37:10] Lake, and all the other lakes. You've got multiple ponds. It's something of a

[37:14] waterland around here. Uh but the only thing that I could see at that time that

[37:19] was really of significance was the Howlet Home that was built in 1890. Not

[37:24] much had been done since then. Anyway, long story short, when Wendy and

[37:30] I decided to move over in this direction from Belleview, uh I remembered that I

[37:35] also remembered that at the time I did the appraisal, Medical Lake school

[37:39] district had the highest test scores of any school district in central and

[37:43] eastern Washington, just a little bit below Belleview, Isiqua, and Northshore.

[37:50] That was impressive. Uh spoke well for the community. So when we decided to

[37:55] move over in this direction by be because of that and because of the uh

[38:01] ambiance of the area and uh the proximity to the airport um I said why

[38:08] don't we move to medical lake so that's what we

[38:10] did now having appraised hundreds of subdivisions and having bought in uh Fox

[38:17] Hill uh I approached this is about three years ago the uh homeowners associ ation

[38:24] president and I said why don't we have an entry monument because uh entry

[38:31] monuments increase value that's not just value but also absorption rate uh I

[38:37] noticed uh in the mid to late 1980s uh when I was doing subdivision appraisals

[38:45] that uh you could take two subdivisions which were essentially the same and put

[38:51] an a nice entry monument, not you know just anything but it has to be nice and

[38:56] that would definitely enhance value. Uh the degree to which it would enhance

[39:02] value depended on the number of lots, the location and other intervening

[39:06] variables but it always did and I just kind of developed a rule of thumb of

[39:12] about 5% as far as the increase that that that it would enhance value.

[39:19] So, I mentioned this to the homeowners association president and he said that

[39:24] they had talked about it in the past, but no one would take the lead. Well, I

[39:29] brought it up. So, I said, "Well, I'll do it." And then it's become quite a an

[39:34] undertaking. First of all, I went down to Mutual Materials and asked for the

[39:39] names of five masons who would be uh good for this sort of a project. And I

[39:46] was given five names. I called all of them. Um, two of them never did return

[39:53] my calls and I can only speculate that it was because this project was just too

[39:59] small. Uh, and other two got back to me but gave me bids that were indicative

[40:07] that, you know, if we're going to pay that much money, they'll go ahead and do

[40:10] it. But that was it was too much money. But uh Marty Bland of Bland Masonry uh

[40:17] was competitive and seemed to know what he was doing. He had done a number of

[40:22] entry monuments. He showed me one where it was a gated community was really

[40:27] beautiful. So I went with him. Then there was the question of the concept

[40:33] and what I just gave you on the second page shows that. uh then uh getting the

[40:38] design done and um during that process I discovered that

[40:45] uh Mr. Bland does the masonry but he does not do the excavation. So I had to

[40:50] find somebody that would do the excavation and that took some time. Uh I

[40:55] called a number of people that were recommended to me and it wasn't until

[40:59] yesterday that I really got a firm number and uh it was uh a very happy

[41:06] moment because the cost for the excavation was significantly less than

[41:11] what I anticipated it would be. So anyway during that process we also have

[41:16] to get a variance because of what you have been discussing and

[41:21] um I think that ultimately uh based on my own experience uh this entry monument

[41:30] would enhance value significantly. We have 180 lots in uh

[41:37] Foxbridge and I'm not going to say, you know, and the 5% applies to lot value,

[41:43] not the finished home value, but it's still if you take 180 lots and I'm not

[41:49] going to say what market value is. My professional designation does not allow

[41:54] me to to speculate unless I've actually done an appraisal. But I can say that

[42:00] the assessor's value for the vast majority of lots in Fox Ridge is

[42:06] $80,000. And if you take $80,000 times 180 lots, and my memory isn't always the

[42:12] best, but I think that's about 14,400,000, 5% of that is a very high

[42:18] number. Even if you just go with 2% of that, it's way above the cost, which

[42:23] will be under $30,000 for the entry monument. So, uh I think this is a very

[42:29] feasible project. It does not preclude uh doing other things that are necessary

[42:35] within the subdivision and um it will not raise homeowners

[42:41] association fees, so on and so forth. The things that people worry about and I

[42:46] answer in this handout. Did you have any further questions for me? Uh yeah, I

[42:52] guess I just want to follow up on the documents you saw at your neighbor's

[42:55] house. Um, if you remember seeing anything in there about entry monuments.

[43:00] Yes. Do you remember what it said or? Just that they were proposed and and as

[43:08] uh is evident never done. Well, without knowing what it says, it's

[43:16] I guess I don't want to speculate too much, but it's possible it might be

[43:19] approved in those documents. So, I would really like it might be. Yeah. I forgive

[43:25] me. I I didn't realize how important that moment was. Well, I guess I'll just

[43:29] say now before we go on with the rest of the hearing that I that I am going to

[43:32] request that you get those documents uh over to us uh so we can review them. So,

[43:37] I'm going to keep the record open at the end of today's hearing um so that we can

[43:42] get those documents. Um I guess I'll just say for the record, I'm only

[43:45] keeping it open for that purpose. I may keep it open for other reasons at a

[43:49] later time, but I'm going to request that you send um Miss Rodriguez and and

[43:54] us a copy of those documents, or you can send them to her and she can forward

[43:57] them to us, whatever is easier for you. We can get you that contact information

[44:01] at the end of the hearing. I think what I'll do is ask Lisa to come with me and

[44:05] we'll we'll go out and go through them. Okay. One by one. Um I think that's a

[44:09] very good idea. Um

[44:13] so, uh I I I think that's all the questions I'm gonna have for you right

[44:16] now. I might something might come up again from the public comments and

[44:19] you'll have an opportunity to, you know, come back up and give rebuttal

[44:23] testimony, too. If I remember uh any other questions I have for you, I'll be

[44:27] sure to bring it back up and ask ask them of you. But, um, thank you for your

[44:31] for your testimony. I'm going to move us to public comment. Yeah, you're welcome.

[44:34] Thank you.

[44:47] Okay. So, uh, just to go over real quick, um, for those who signed up, um,

[44:52] I'm just going to go through the list I have, and then I'll check and see if

[44:55] there's anyone on Zoom who wants to testify. I'm going to call you in order

[44:58] you on here. I'll have you come up to the podium, state your name and address

[45:01] for the record, and then I'll have you swear uh an oath before you provide

[45:05] testimony. Uh, as I stated before, you'll have up to up to five minutes. uh

[45:09] because that's a little longer than usual, we are going to do a hard stop at

[45:12] five minutes. So, just to prepare you, if you're hitting the fiveminute mark

[45:16] and we cut you off, uh please don't be offended, but it's for the purposes of

[45:20] us keeping uh this hearing moving forward in an orderly fashion. So, first

[45:24] I have uh Ted Adams.

[45:38] Hey, state your name and address. Ted Adams. Uh address is North 1112 North.

[45:44] Okay. And do you swear or affirm any testimony you give? Be the truth, the

[45:46] whole truth, and nothing but the truth. It is, sir. All right. Please proceed.

[45:49] Um, first when this came about, I saw the sign. I approached Ted uh Ted Olsson

[45:54] with a lot of concerns about this. Um, and it's interesting that this

[46:00] showed up at my house last night um, while I was gone. As you can see, I made

[46:05] a whole bunch of notes on it. And it's great that Mr. Mson gave us whole

[46:09] history of how we ended up here. Um, I could have that whole spill last night.

[46:13] I actually had that spill ready. But when I got over to Ted Olson's house

[46:17] this morning, he said, "I can only argue about the

[46:21] variance." Well, this is all great. The one thing that hasn't been addressed is

[46:26] there hasn't been any comment, letters, anything regarding

[46:30] fire code, fire access, nothing like that. Now, there was a gentleman that

[46:38] brought up the concern about vehicles sliding into the medium. I can testify

[46:45] that a couple years ago on Christmas day I was heading to a friend's house for

[46:48] Christmas. I actually slid up onto the median because the lack of proper care

[46:54] of the roads. So that is a huge concern that has not been addressed. Now the

[47:00] city planner states that she believes that the medians were made possibly for

[47:08] that. That's speculation. I find it interesting that now all of a

[47:14] sudden once there's been push back about this proposed HOA monument that now it's

[47:22] coming to light that oh magic papers have appeared but yet if it were me I

[47:28] would have had them here to present to you

[47:31] sir just for the fact that we know that they exist they're here I understand and

[47:38] respect that you're leaving it open for you to view, but I would call into

[47:42] question if that is really the proper way that this should have been

[47:47] proceeded. Um, you know, again, I really would like

[47:52] to have argued a lot of the points on this note. Um, but

[47:58] unfortunately, I'm not going to. I do feel that this is a joke because it has

[48:05] been put the carriage before the horse. This HOA board should have voted on this

[48:11] prior to getting to this point. Thank you for your time, sir. I appreciate you

[48:16] hearing me out. Thank you,

[48:29] sir. All right, Connie Olsen.

[48:45] Connie Olsen, 810 East Colin Avenue. Okay. And do you swear or affirm any

[48:50] testimony you'll give? Be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

[48:53] Okay. Please proceed. Um, I know this is only for a variance, but I was a school

[48:58] bus driver here in medical lake for 25 years. And in any other given time,

[49:04] there may be plenty of room to come around there. And that's if you're

[49:07] going, you know, you have to know how to get around it. You go slow. Well, not

[49:11] everybody goes slow. And then you have to account for the ice and the pileup of

[49:15] snow everywhere. and the amount of traffic going in and out of there in the

[49:20] winter, it doesn't provide um a lot of room for buses to to

[49:25] maneuver through there. You can get around there very

[49:30] slowly, but when you're talking about a huge um piece of equipment on ice, we

[49:36] all know that you don't know you're not going slow enough until you aren't, you

[49:42] know, until you hit the middle. Um, it does really concern me just

[49:47] because we've seen things go wrong there. They're talking about the way the

[49:51] buzz the way they turn and stuff and maybe know a wheel doesn't go on there,

[49:56] but when it turns the wheel is under the bus, the front part of the bus goes over

[50:01] the top of that and um my husband observed that this morning with one of

[50:05] the buses coming around the corner. Other than that, I just don't have

[50:09] anything more to say. Deans, it's only a variance, but

[50:13] I as I when I found out about this, I was totally incensed only

[50:21] because I don't want to be divided from the rest of the town and have a

[50:27] monument. Is it beautiful? Absolutely. Do Do most of the people up

[50:32] there want it? No, they don't. Um, this is a rocky area around here. We've seen

[50:38] a few monuments, if you call them that. Um, I don't want to be exclusive. We

[50:44] love our neighborhood and we just want it to be safe for everybody, but this

[50:50] was kind of all just done with nobody knowing about it except

[50:55] for the president and Mr. Mson. As far as I know, I didn't see any information

[51:00] that this was going to take place. Would we like information? Would we like to be

[51:05] involved in the picking of such signage? Um, so other than that, I

[51:12] mean, I've got a lot to say about it, but as far as the variance, I'm not

[51:16] quite sure that's a thank you for the time. Thank you.

[51:28] Okay, Wendy Mson.

[51:47] Can you hear me from here or do I need a microphone? Oh, good. Should be okay.

[51:52] Thanks. Hard to stand. Um, so you just state your name for Wendy Mson. And some

[51:59] kind of oath. Yeah. Do you swear or affirm any testimony and give me the

[52:02] truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes, I do. Okay. just

[52:05] proceed. Okay. So, um I'm I actually am a former planner uh with the uh Monroe

[52:12] County in New York uh planning commission and planning department and

[52:18] with the California coastal commission and with the uh city of Seattle. Um and

[52:24] so I have some background in planning and variances etc. Uh also, um I as I

[52:30] understand it, this is the variance is what we're here for today. This is a

[52:35] variance on a public right of way and the criteria are in comparison to other

[52:42] subdivisions, not in comparison to properties within 300 ft. It's an

[52:46] awkward situation. Where do you send the notice? you know, uh actually

[52:51] technically you might send a notice to uh any subdivisions within 300 ft of the

[52:57] boundary of this subdivision. It it's difficult to know and um it's certainly

[53:03] more interesting to the people in the subdivision, but it actually is in

[53:08] regard to what uh effect would it have in regard to other subdivisions? I is

[53:14] that correct? I I don't know. I mean that's what I understood with Alisa. And

[53:20] so um what what impact would it have in terms of perhaps future subdivisions or

[53:27] existing subdivisions in terms of your decision? And so as I think it was

[53:33] mentioned in one of your questions, how would it

[53:37] affect other right of ways? And it doesn't seem like there are any other

[53:42] cuz now when somebody would do a subdivision they would be asked where is

[53:46] your track for a common area. So that wasn't and maybe it was and that's what

[53:52] we're going to find out apparently because when my husband went around the

[53:55] other night last night probably about six o'clock I found out this really

[54:00] interesting information and um this is all part of a

[54:05] public process so it's nothing conspiratorial. Now, as far as uh the

[54:10] president Dana of the board, he's been putting this out for at least three,

[54:15] four years in the minutes of the HOA that we're thinking of a monument and in

[54:21] all of the newsletters and that's how it came up and anybody who attended those

[54:26] meetings would know about this just not part of your issue, but this is well

[54:31] known. So, that's how it he was always asking, does somebody want to research

[54:36] this? So this is not news and also all these issues which may be important are

[54:41] public works issues and those should be handled by the permit process through

[54:46] the public works department which has to happen after a variance is decided upon

[54:51] one way or another. So that's just a technicality but it's an important one.

[54:57] It's a chicken and egg thing, a horse before the cart. You have to do

[55:01] something first. Unfortunately, my husband had to spend two years of his

[55:05] life figuring all this out. But that's neither here nor there. That's a risk

[55:09] you take. But it was well known to everybody. Nothing sprung upon anybody

[55:15] if they were if they were looking at their newsletters or

[55:19] minutes. I know I'm running out of time. So, a fire code, all those are public

[55:24] works issues. Uh and uh by the way in terms of intent, why would the city why

[55:30] would the HOA pay all these years to um water and put uh uh sprinklers in on

[55:40] this particular tract if they didn't intend to have some HOA use of that

[55:46] tract and the other two that's a lot of money over the years and that's on the

[55:52] public rightway as a donation to this city has a very and they must have had

[55:58] some kind of agreement. Nobody goes out and spends that kind of money every year

[56:03] uh on these this is a variance issue. Why on earth would we be doing that if

[56:09] it weren't that we had some kind of interest in it and some kind of formal

[56:13] agreement? Uh if you look at the old CCNRs for the first part it does say as

[56:19] part of approval of this agreement we agreed to actually

[56:25] take care of the sub outside on Graham Road take care of that landscaping and

[56:32] that's not part of every CCNR because there were five different tracks and

[56:38] it's very complicated as Lisa knows she's spent her life last few months

[56:42] trying to figure this out and these papers which he did not know about no

[56:47] conspiracy here he just found out last night and it's a good thing this isn't

[56:51] public process we we didn't know Mr. girls and got concerned. He went around

[56:57] and rallied the troops. And so now we know more. And we wouldn't have known

[57:01] this if my husband hadn't gone around to try to find out what people did know or

[57:05] didn't know. So there we go. And so this is part of the public process. It's

[57:09] nothing that anybody should be concerned about. We're finding information.

[57:14] Fine. Okay. Thank you. Well, perfectly timed.

[57:26] You have any questions? Oh, no. Thank you.

[57:35] Uh, Ted

[57:49] Olsson. Morning. Ted Olsen, 810 East Colin

[57:54] Avenue, Medical Lake, Washington. Okay. And do you swear or affirm any testimony

[57:58] you'll give me? The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Very

[58:00] true. All right. Please proceed. Thank you. Good morning. Uh, and I want to

[58:04] thank you for affording me the time to uh speak on the Fox Ridge variance and

[58:09] I'm speaking for myself as an unofficial representative of the homeowners at

[58:14] Foxbridgeidge Developments. two major reasons not to approve the

[58:19] variance. Number one is the monument could be harmful harmful to the public

[58:25] welfare. I have lived in this development for 10 years. I've lived in

[58:28] the medical lake area for 32 years and been a resident of Eastern Washington my

[58:33] entire life. because of poor driving or before

[58:39] uh excuse me be uh because of poor drainage. Winter snow and ice form

[58:44] around the medium. Every winter at least one person slides into that media, me

[58:49] included. It's solid ice. There's no way for it to drain. And if we add snow to

[58:54] the problem, it makes it even more hazardous. A wheel light a wheel

[59:00] alignment cost uh is much less than a crash into a proposed monument.

[59:06] I've been a school bus driver, a substitute school bus driver for Medical

[59:10] Lake for the last nine years. In a 40-foot school bus, that corner, Graham

[59:16] Road and Fox Ridge Road, is difficult to manage in the best of conditions.

[59:23] Although I have never hit a curb of the median, the front of the bus usually

[59:28] sticks out into the median to avoid the back tires on the passenger side from

[59:32] going over the media over the curb. At this time, I'd like to read a

[59:39] short statement from uh Katherine Bivven. She operates the position of

[59:46] driver trainer and she's a longstanding member or driver in the medical lake

[59:50] school district. Having both trained drivers in Medical Lake and been

[59:54] specifically contracted to the Fox Ridge route for at least two years, I would

[1:00:00] like to state it is my personal opinion that having any type of monument in the

[1:00:03] median at the entrance to Fox Ridge could definitely be a distraction or a

[1:00:08] hazard to drivers. This is one of the most precarious turns I make in Medical

[1:00:13] Lake with a bus due to the combination of the angle you approach the street

[1:00:17] from Graham Road and the maneuvering you have to do onto the street without

[1:00:21] running into the median. This is particularly precarious in the winter

[1:00:25] months where there is snow on the ground. It is my belief that it is not

[1:00:31] an optimal location for a seemingly unnecessary and visually obstructing

[1:00:35] object of any sort. Thank you for your consideration. That's Katherine Bivven.

[1:00:41] I also spoke with my uh boss and this week unfortunately I had to take the

[1:00:47] morning off to come here. They are very short-handed and the state patrol is

[1:00:50] inspecting all the buses. So otherwise my boss would have been here also to

[1:00:55] testify the same thing that I'm testifying to.

[1:01:00] And as my wife pointed out this morning, I watched a bus go around the corner

[1:01:04] because I took some pictures at the at the bottom of the

[1:01:07] hill for another purpose. And I saw bus number 28 come around the corner nice

[1:01:15] and smoothly. And he his back tires did not

[1:01:19] hit the curb. His front tires did not hit the medium, but the front of the bus

[1:01:23] stuck over into the medium that far. it would have hit any monument that is

[1:01:34] there. One more item is worth mentioning. There are two utility access

[1:01:38] covers between the median and Graham Road. And having worked as an equipment

[1:01:43] operator my life for Washington State, I can tell you that the the

[1:01:49] median's monument would be in jeopardy if there's any digging that has to be

[1:01:54] done there. And I was also told by a city maintenance worker that there's

[1:01:58] possibly a water mane line in the proximity of where the proposed monument

[1:02:03] is going to be. And we all know that these things

[1:02:07] break once in a while. But and I also have two more pictures. Can you bring

[1:02:12] those pictures up, please?

[1:02:20] I took two pictures this morning for your

[1:02:28] consideration. One reason for

[1:02:33] please. Now the one one shows the sewer line which is just a couple of feet uh

[1:02:39] right in front of the media. This the other picture shows a water line which

[1:02:43] is further out but that's a different water line.

[1:02:47] If you go back to the bigger one where the sewer line is right there, you'll

[1:02:51] notice a crack in the in the uh asphalt just slightly behind about where

[1:02:57] this where this monument is proposed. And this is where the speculation lies

[1:03:03] and I don't know for sure yet, but they said there's probably a big main water

[1:03:07] line that goes underneath right there. Definitely.

[1:03:11] Okay. Uh I think that's all I had anyway. So that was perfect timing.

[1:03:16] Thank you for your time. I appreciate Thank you, sir. Thank you.

[1:03:23] All right. Is there anyone else uh present here who didn't sign up who

[1:03:27] wishes to testify? You do,

[1:03:32] sir. Um we'll get you to I'll get you to come up and you can set your name for

[1:03:37] the record. Then I'll have you sign up on here as well.

[1:03:41] You can you can sign it uh write your name down after you're done testifying.

[1:03:45] Okay. Good. Thank you. My name is Scott Quigley and um I live

[1:03:51] in that area on on Terra Lee Boulevard at the top of the hill. It's 1012 is the

[1:03:59] actual address. Okay. Do you swear or affirm any testimony to give me the

[1:04:03] truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes, I do. Okay. Please

[1:04:05] proceed. So, I had a couple of comments um that came about from other people

[1:04:12] making comments. One one of those comments was that

[1:04:18] the the signage, the monument that it was uh going to be at the primary

[1:04:27] entrance because of where I live on Teri. Uh I'm able to see a lot of the

[1:04:34] traffic uh that goes up and down that street. And uh had I known I was

[1:04:42] actually going to um speak today, I might have gone out

[1:04:48] there yesterday and counted cars. So I I don't have an official count. I just

[1:04:53] know it's a lot because every time they come up, the lights shine right in the

[1:04:59] windows of our house. Um so um there are at least what I would think three

[1:05:08] primary entrances and um and so we're leaving with this proposal and what's

[1:05:15] being talked about today. We're actually leaving two uh of those entrances out of

[1:05:23] the of consideration.

[1:05:27] And then um I I just wanted to uh say I have

[1:05:35] excuse me uh I have um opportunities to go to the homeowner association meetings

[1:05:41] and someone said oh gosh it's been on the agenda many times and and we talk

[1:05:49] about you know plenty of opportunity for all the homeowners to have heard that

[1:05:54] information. I I I disagree. I I'm a homeowner and and I and I've been to to

[1:06:00] some of the meetings. Not not didn't make it to every single one of them, but

[1:06:04] to to many of them. But I uh suspect that somewhere because there's always an

[1:06:12] agenda. There's a written agenda that must be a document that we could

[1:06:17] probably easily lay our hands on to see in fact if everybody did have as much

[1:06:24] opportunity as as we're uh leading ourselves to believe. So uh

[1:06:31] so that's all I have to say and I'll sign the yes please. Thank

[1:06:39] you. Is there anyone else who's present here who wishes to provide testimony?

[1:06:54] Do you

[1:07:01] have to issue more?

[1:07:07] But how often have we had All right. Yeah. Um I I'll circle back if he

[1:07:12] changes his mind before I close public comments. So I'll consider it. But is

[1:07:17] there anyone on Zoom who is there anyone even connected to Zoom?

[1:07:22] City administrator. Okay.

[1:07:27] All right sir. Uh so I am about to close public comment. So now will be the last

[1:07:31] chance if you want to give public comment.

[1:07:35] I just wanted to corroborate my statement that there have been

[1:07:39] many corroborate that statement I made.

[1:07:46] Let me state your name and address for the record and I'll have you sign. Dana

[1:07:49] D'vorak. I live at 106 Fox Ridge Road Medical Lake. Okay. Do you swear affirm

[1:07:56] any testimony you give to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the

[1:07:58] truth? I do. uh just as per the

[1:08:04] uh incidents of opportunities that have been put out there, the putting in this

[1:08:10] uh monument has been something I I started living in the HOA in 2010. Uh I

[1:08:17] got involved with the HOA board in 2011 when web properties uh have been hired

[1:08:22] as our management company uh because I felt like I needed to be involved with

[1:08:28] that particular thing. Um I had never been on a board before or dealt with an

[1:08:32] HOA before uh in any kind of capacity but um I know that there have been many

[1:08:40] uh meetings when we had web properties. We did quarterly meetings uh up to the

[1:08:45] point uh just before COVID um when 2019 when we closed out uh the contract for

[1:08:51] web properties. But during several of those meetings uh over the years it had

[1:08:58] been brought up by homeowners suggesting that we need to look into getting a

[1:09:04] monument placed out there. people discussed different various types and

[1:09:10] you know big boulders and whatnot. Um uh in 2019 when uh we got rid of web

[1:09:18] properties and I started uh doing the majority myself uh Nicole Richards uh

[1:09:24] Glenn was on the board for a while. Ted had been on the board for a while uh

[1:09:29] Monica there's a number of folks in our neighborhood.

[1:09:33] Um those items had been brought up in a number of meetings but as she said

[1:09:40] um a lot of times they never went anywhere because the HOA is all

[1:09:46] voluntary. I don't know anything about like the procedure of what he went

[1:09:52] through to get us to this point. The best I would have been able to do is go

[1:09:57] and try to get an estimate on what it would cost for the monument itself. Um

[1:10:01] but nobody ever picked up the project and carried it forward. So it kept

[1:10:05] getting mentioned here and there uh at the meetings uh since I had taken over

[1:10:11] and I send out uh a newsletter or brief on specific things for that particular

[1:10:17] quarter when I send out the quarterly uh invoices for the HOA dues to homeowners

[1:10:24] uh whether it be by email or uh by mail more recently. Um, and it doesn't list a

[1:10:32] lot of information regarding it, but it would be um, hey, we're continuing to

[1:10:38] look at uh, yeah, moving forward with this. We found out this uh, our annual

[1:10:46] meeting in 2024. Uh, Carl had come to the meeting

[1:10:50] to give an update on it. He had started working on it in

[1:10:55] 20 2022 2023 time frame with uh going out and talking to people here and

[1:11:01] there. It wasn't like a fast-paced project that we're trying to get done

[1:11:05] immediately. Um but it has been put out there. Um

[1:11:12] invites are sent to every homeowner for the annual meeting. Uh we typically get

[1:11:17] about 12 people that actually show up and that probably constitute actually

[1:11:21] about seven homes because usually husband and wife will come.

[1:11:28] Um I don't know what else to say about for various portions. Um you sent me six

[1:11:34] messages that showed it. That's all that's all I wanted to say. I do have

[1:11:38] copies of like some of the uh meeting minutes that do have references on them.

[1:11:45] I'll take a look. I I might not admit this to the record, but I'll take a look

[1:11:48] and see whether I should or not. Um there's an agenda for the 2024 meeting

[1:11:53] in there. Um one of the newsletters that I sent out most recently in December for

[1:11:59] the first quarter 2025 dues. um that each of those have a mention of the

[1:12:08] monument project or the uh update to be given by uh Mr. Mson at the meeting for

[1:12:15] 2024. Those types of instances I just wanted to prove. Yeah, ma'am. I'm sorry.

[1:12:21] Your your public comment portion is is over. Um

[1:12:26] yeah, I appreciate you bringing these, but I don't think I'm going to the

[1:12:29] record. No, no, it's okay. Thank you very much. All

[1:12:38] right, that is going to conclude our public comment portion of today's

[1:12:43] hearing. U we're going to move uh back to an opportunity for both uh Miss

[1:12:48] Rodriguez and Mr. Mson to provide rebuttal testimony. Mr. Rodriguez, do

[1:12:53] you want to uh make any comment?

[1:13:02] I just wanted to offer since you're intending to leave the record open that

[1:13:05] I could contact the school district. I hadn't gotten comment at this point, but

[1:13:09] I could contact them to see if they would like to make written um statement

[1:13:14] regarding their position on school buses. Okay. Back here. Oh, sorry. I I

[1:13:21] was making the offer to contact the school district to get an official

[1:13:26] statement on their position regarding school buses in this particular

[1:13:30] intersection. Okay. Yes. And actually I was going to discuss this um because we

[1:13:36] don't have uh we did get your uh comment I think Monday from the public works

[1:13:45] um fire access was brought up. So maybe a comment from the fire department would

[1:13:50] be appropriate as well. I can contact you also. Um so I'm going to direct you

[1:13:55] ask I guess um and leave the record open for you to submit comments from uh I

[1:14:01] guess the school district or whoever is responsible for the buses district and

[1:14:04] fire district 3. Yes. Okay. Um make sure we get those comments on the record and

[1:14:07] anyone else you might think is appropriate to have their comments on

[1:14:11] the record. Um please uh request comments from them. We'll do. Um, and

[1:14:18] then I'm also going to ask if um, you can retrieve for the record a copy of

[1:14:23] the final plat and any documents that were recorded with it. So, we can have

[1:14:26] that on file and I can take a look at that and maybe compare it to whatever

[1:14:29] we're able to get from the applicant or one of the one of the neighbors. Um, so

[1:14:35] I can take a look and see if there's any differences in the the final plat as

[1:14:38] well. So, anything else from you? No. Thank you. Okay. I'll go over this at

[1:14:44] the end to to make it official about what I'm leaving leaving the record open

[1:14:47] for. So, thank

[1:14:51] you. Uh, Mr. Mson, any rebuttal testimony? And then I I think you're

[1:14:55] going to get the last word also. So, we'll make this your opportunity to

[1:14:58] provide for further further testimony and then you can have a final word on

[1:15:02] your application. Uh as far as placement of the proposed

[1:15:10] um entry monument, we took into consideration that there might be some

[1:15:16] problem with overlap. The distance between the edge of the front of the

[1:15:21] entry monument, excuse me, the center island and the entry monument is 14 ft.

[1:15:30] So, we really shouldn't have too much trouble there as far as unless you know

[1:15:34] somebody just plows into it. Uh, with regards to

[1:15:40] utilities, obviously we would check with a vist to make sure that we weren't

[1:15:45] disrupting anything.

[1:15:49] Um, I will say what the the the statement was made that everybody is

[1:15:55] opposed to this. I took yesterday north of Tara Lee. They were all very very

[1:16:02] much in favor of it. So, and that I'm I kind of understand the reason for that,

[1:16:08] but I won't get into that now. Thank you. Okay. Um, and just real quick, have

[1:16:13] you stay up here? Um, so I am going to uh request that you I know I already

[1:16:18] said this, but just to have it official on a record, I'm going to request that

[1:16:21] you try to achieve uh whatever documents it is. Is it is it possibly a final

[1:16:26] approval decision for the final plat or is it do you remember off the top of

[1:16:30] your head what what the I don't remember off the top of my head but that's very

[1:16:34] probable. She had a lot of stuff. Okay. Um I guess I'll ask you to be over

[1:16:40] inclusive. If it turns out it's not really relevant to me. That's fine.

[1:16:43] We'll just make it part of the record. So, whatever you can get that is part of

[1:16:47] the final plat final plat decision, any associated agreements, um please uh make

[1:16:54] sure you get those and and we'll get those into the record and I will review

[1:16:57] them. Sure, I will do that. Okay. And then one final question. I know this is

[1:17:02] probably more at permit time, but can you say for the record where you're

[1:17:06] intending along the median to put the the monument sign if it were approved?

[1:17:12] at the front, at the back, in the middle. 14 feet from the front. 14 ft

[1:17:17] from the front of the start of the median. Yeah. And the uh I know that if

[1:17:22] you took out the 3 and 1/2 ft uh depth of the median, there'd be about 85 ft

[1:17:29] left in the center island. Okay. So again, that's if if

[1:17:35] approved, that's something that probably would be addressed in that process.

[1:17:38] Okay. All right. Any final word on your application? No. Okay. All right. Thank

[1:17:43] you.

[1:17:51] All right. Thank you all for coming today and testifying.

[1:17:54] Um, as I stated before, but uh, just for, you know, my own legal purposes, I

[1:17:59] want to make sure this is really clear in the record. Um, I'm I'm leaving the

[1:18:03] record open only for the specific purposes I've outlined before. I'll

[1:18:07] state them again. Um, but this is not an There will be no other opportunity for

[1:18:11] public comment or submitt of comments. Uh I am only leaving it open for the two

[1:18:15] for the things I requested uh from the city which are some comments from

[1:18:19] possibly affected departments. Uh make sure we have their written comments on

[1:18:23] the record at least at this time. Uh fire fire department and school district

[1:18:28] and any anyone else. Miss Rodriguez um reason reasonably determines uh should

[1:18:34] should be um contacted um as well as I've directed her to get a copy of the

[1:18:40] final plat and any other recorded documents that may shed some light on

[1:18:44] this. And then as well as I've directed the applicant um to submit any of the

[1:18:49] records he um says he located yesterday that have to do with approval of the

[1:18:54] final plat. Other than no specific items, uh no other no other documents or

[1:18:58] comments will be admitted to the record. So for the rest of the record, uh it's

[1:19:02] closed remaining open for those limited purposes. And staff presentation. Uh

[1:19:08] yes. And also thank you uh for the administrative matter. So the staff

[1:19:11] presentation will also be made a part of the record. Uh so it is uh open until

[1:19:16] for that item as well until we receive it. Um other than that, any other

[1:19:20] administrative matters? No. Uh anything else from the city? No.

[1:19:24] Okay. All right. Thank you. With that, um, I'm going to close, uh, the hearing

[1:19:29] and we are now adjourned. Thank you. Thank you.

Hearing Examiner Public Hearing for LU 2024-032

Transcript