[0:05] of the meeting of the Affordable Housing Trust.

[0:08] on September 2nd, 2026.

[0:12] at 6:01 p.m.

[0:17] Anna, do you want to take it from here

[0:19] to start with the 40Y zoning info session?

[0:22] Sure thing. Okay.

[0:23] So I wanted to bring tonight, um,

[0:26] a, I'll say relatively new,

[0:31] but I won't get into too many details,

[0:33] but, um, a zoning tool that

[0:36] um, recently the state passed, I think, back in 2023,

[0:41] and then there were guidelines released, uh, this spring.

[0:45] And I came across this through some conversations with

[0:49] um, the Office of Housing and Livable Communities.

[0:52] And um, thought that this might be something that would be worth looking into

[0:57] to see if it might be something that would work in Middleton.

[1:01] So I, um, invited tonight,

[1:05] um, a presenter from the office,

[1:07] Executive Office of Housing and Livable Communities.

[1:10] I'll let him introduce himself when we, um, get there.

[1:13] But I just wanted to set the stage briefly,

[1:15] um, to do a quick overview of

[1:17] this zoning tool

[1:18] and to talk a little bit about where and how and if it might, um,

[1:23] be a fit in Middleton.

[1:24] I'm hoping that we have around

[1:27] 15 to 20 minutes of presentation

[1:29] and then plenty of time for questions

[1:31] and to also look at a, um,

[1:33] a potential application,

[1:36] just to kind of wrap our brains around it a little bit.

[1:39] Um, so, um, who we have in the room.

[1:42] If we could actually, I think it would be nice if we could do a quick just, um,

[1:46] introduction of the board.

[1:48] And then, um, we do have a couple of audience members as well.

[1:51] I would love if we could just do a quick round so that we all know

[1:54] who's in the room and then we'll jump in.

[1:57] Um, so Anna Berry Carmer, I'm the planning director here in Middleton.

[2:01] And I'll pass it over to Maria.

[2:02] I'm Maria Pecos Hasis. I'm the Vice Chair here of the Affordable Housing Trust,

[2:06] acting as chair as Brian Crester is not available this evening.

[2:10] Tom Martin, the citizen at large.

[2:13] Jason Burhart, representer of the planning board.

[2:15] Bethany Andrebeck, uh, representer of the large.

[2:18] Richard Gregorio, representer of the finance board.

[2:22] Excuse me.

[2:24] Costa Frontacus, um, on the select board and

[2:28] the community preservation Committee.

[2:31] [paper rustling]

[2:36] Oh, front. Linda Richards. Um,

[2:40] zoning board of appeals, Industrial commercial, design and meeting.

[2:46] Anthony Mirabito, alternate member of the ZBA.

[2:50] Kyle Smith, member of the Planning Board.

[2:54] All right, great. Thanks everyone.

[2:56] Um, so I will pass it over to you.

[3:00] [paper rustling]

[3:03] I'm assuming that's me.

[3:05] [laughter] Yeah. Sorry. I was looking at.

[3:07] Okay. I'm like, okay, this is a good virtual, but yes, thank you. Okay.

[3:13] All right. Well, thank you Anna, and thank you to the, uh,

[3:17] to the trust, uh, for inviting me here tonight.

[3:22] Um, my name is Bill Ralt.

[3:24] I've worked at the, uh, what's now

[3:26] called the Executive Office of Housing and Livable Communities

[3:30] for longer than I'd care to admit,

[3:32] uh, in different capacities,

[3:34] but since about 2009 or so, I've been working primarily on, uh,

[3:39] what's known as Chapter 40R,

[3:42] the Smart Growth Zoning program,

[3:44] and more recently the starter home zoning program. Um,

[3:49] which uh, was passed a number of years ago and had uh, a few years ago and and

[3:55] um, had a prior iteration as well. Um,

[3:59] but, uh, as Anna mentioned, uh, the regulations were only completed,

[4:03] uh, last March.

[4:06] due to various competing interests and and priorities. Um,

[4:12] but, uh, nonetheless, I'll provide a quick overview here

[4:16] and then, uh, we can get into questions,

[4:19] but obviously feel free to interrupt

[4:21] if there's, uh, something that you need to know immediately.

[4:24] Um, I do want to apologize that

[4:26] uh, we are still in the course of updating our, uh,

[4:32] presentations to make them more accessible.

[4:36] Uh, this one is not there yet and I apologize for that.

[4:40] Um, uh, and please let me know if that's a problem

[4:43] and I can follow up hopefully with, uh, one that is fully accessible,

[4:47] um, after the meeting.

[4:49] Um, as soon as possible.

[4:52] So, um, uh, next slide, I guess, or the the, uh,

[4:56] So just a quick overview, um, of

[5:00] We're going to discuss here uh some of these items will be uh fairly short.

[5:04] The uh program uh status uh program activity.

[5:08] Um, but uh yeah, mainly uh providing an overview of what the what the program is,

[5:13] um, which is a voluntary program

[5:16] to encourage cities and towns to adopt by right

[5:20] uh zoning districts that allow for modest size single family homes

[5:24] at densities that are consistent

[5:27] with traditional neighborhood design as one way to put it.

[5:30] And uh, you know, unlike 40R,

[5:34] there is uh there are no locational uh requirements.

[5:38] Uh and the general purpose is to try to uh, you know,

[5:43] we we have various tools to produce multifamily housing,

[5:47] um, there haven't there hasn't been as much attention

[5:50] on single family housing

[5:52] and um, this is a way to hopefully bring down the cost uh without layering on a lot of

[5:58] restrictions uh in terms of affordability,

[6:03] um, by creating smaller homes on smaller lots.

[6:07] Uh, next slide please.

[6:13] So, uh, the core requirements are that

[6:17] uh in terms of single family use,

[6:21] uh, um, the statute defines uh a starter home as a

[6:26] uh single family home with uh

[6:28] no more than 1850 square feet of heated living area.

[6:33] And it allows for a uh an ADU uh by right on the same lot

[6:37] as the starter home.

[6:40] Um, and also allows for limited

[6:44] um at at HLC's uh discretion or approval,

[6:47] um non-residential uses within the starter home zoning district.

[6:51] This can be either base or overlay zoning,

[6:55] the presumption is that it would primarily be

[6:58] uh used as overlay zoning.

[7:00] but we'll time will tell. Uh,

[7:03] has to be by right uh and the density is a minimum of

[7:07] four units per developable acre of land.

[7:11] Um, and we can get into that more detail.

[7:15] Um, uh, but essentially sort of the upwind, if you will.

[7:19] Um, and the uh in terms of the income restrictions, it's uh

[7:25] uh a little confusing admittedly if you just look at the statute,

[7:30] but the way has shaken out in terms of the regulations

[7:34] is that um,

[7:36] all that communities can require at the

[7:40] at the minimum of four units of acre and they must allow this

[7:44] is uh 10% of the uh units in a project that is

[7:50] 13 or more units

[7:53] are affordable up to 110% of AMI.

[7:57] Uh, additional affordability as in for instance, SHI, subsidized housing

[8:00] inventory levels of affordability

[8:05] uh can be encouraged through additional incentives,

[8:10] but um, the you know, the districts

[8:13] must allow this at the minimum acre uh density.

[8:16] Um, and that's the only restriction that can be placed on affordability

[8:20] at that density.

[8:24] 50% of the starter homes in a starter home zoning district

[8:27] must contain three or more bedrooms.

[8:29] Next slide. And that's sort of seemed like in keeping with

[8:32] the name of the of the program.

[8:36] In terms of some of the, you know, general characteristics, other

[8:40] other general characteristics of the 40R zoning,

[8:43] Uh, I mentioned that it has to be uh starter homes have to be allowed

[8:47] by right, as well as the ADUs.

[8:49] Uh, but uh you can apply um

[8:52] site plan review and design standards,

[8:55] they do have to be consistent with a an as of right process,

[9:00] namely they have to be, you know, reasonable, clear, objective,

[9:03] um, that sort of thing.

[9:05] Uh, the um, it's it's ideally that those requirements are included in the

[9:12] starter home zoning bylaw,

[9:16] um, but um, uh, you know, they can be perhaps reference other parts of

[9:22] the bylaw, um, where these where existing standards are

[9:26] provided that they they they meet those requirements that I mentioned above.

[9:31] Um, or outside the zoning perhaps, uh, um,

[9:36] if you want more flexibility

[9:38] in terms of make it easier to amend design standards,

[9:41] that's uh, you know, if they're just referenced in the zoning,

[9:44] Um, but we do have to review and approve those and any modifications

[9:48] that are made to those over time.

[9:54] The statute calls for at least two

[9:56] or, you know, it calls for sustainable development standards.

[10:00] Um, and uh, you know, the regulation specify

[10:02] that you need at least two of those.

[10:04] And uh, that's, um, pretty flexible really, I think.

[10:08] Uh, I think low impact design,

[10:11] uh, and OSRD are two examples that have been cited.

[10:17] As far as any whatever the statute refers to

[10:20] additional municipal standards, uh, that would render development infeasible.

[10:24] Um, and, you know, essentially, uh, prohibits that.

[10:29] There are potentially work arounds for that.

[10:32] Uh, if there a situation arises where the municipality

[10:36] argues that, you know, these these standards are feasible

[10:40] or there's some uh disagreement over that.

[10:43] Um, there are potentially ways that we can we can accommodate that.

[10:48] Uh, namely, it would probably be that, uh, the zoning incentive,

[10:52] the municipality would not be eligible

[10:53] for the zoning incentive payment until

[10:54] there was actually evidence of that the units were built.

[10:59] Um, and I'll get into the payments. I'm sorry.

[11:02] The in terms of the uh, yeah, no age restrictions, uh,

[11:07] they're entirely prohibited, um,

[11:09] whereas in 40R, just a contrast, they, they can be, you know, um,

[11:14] they're allowed but they can't be required.

[11:17] Uh, next slide please.

[11:22] So as far as the uh financial incentives, uh,

[11:24] there they're two types of uh basic payments or core payments.

[11:28] The zoning incentive payment

[11:31] and uh, the uh what's called production bonus payment

[11:35] in uh in 40Y speak.

[11:39] Uh, the zoning incentive payment is on a scale based on the net increase

[11:43] in uh single family homes on the land.

[11:48] So, uh, you take whatever the 40R zoning would allow, you know,

[11:51] could just be at the four units an acre as I said,

[11:54] of developable land,

[11:56] Um, and you deduct the number of units that are already allowed by right

[12:01] or, you know, would be allowed by right on that land or

[12:04] the any existing units that are on that land already.

[12:09] Um, it would be the higher of those two numbers would be deducted.

[12:14] Uh, as far as the uh production bonus payment, that's um,

[12:18] and so it does range from 10 to as low as $10,000

[12:21] up to $600,000 based on that number

[12:24] of what a referred to as incentive units.

[12:29] The difference between the existing and the proposed, or allowed

[12:32] under the start starter home zoning.

[12:35] The uh production bonus payment is 3,000 per unit.

[12:39] Uh, again, it's just the net increase in Azbright units.

[12:44] Uh, other incentives are just generally the desire to promote

[12:48] single family housing opportunities.

[12:52] Um, there you can get points on various HLC uh applications programs.

[12:59] Um, and there is the possibility of uh 40S school cost reimbursement,

[13:05] uh, which uh I believe rests on there there is pending legislation.

[13:09] I'm not sure

[13:11] of the status of it.

[13:13] Um, but that is uh hopefully will be in place soon.

[13:18] Uh, next slide please.

[13:20] I think we're going to take questions at the end.

[13:22] I think they're taking is that correct?

[13:24] We're going to take he was going to ask a question, but we're going to take them at the end.

[13:30] Who's the payor of the incentive and who's the pay?

[13:36] Who's the payor of the incentive and who's the payee?

[13:40] Does the state pay the municipality?

[13:42] The the state is the payer and the, yeah, the municipality is the payee.

[13:51] Thank you, that's all.

[13:54] Bill, do you want us to reserve questions till you completed

[13:56] or as you go?

[13:58] I'd like to be clear on that.

[14:02] Uh, you know, if there's something, you know, if you're worried

[14:05] you're gonna forget it

[14:06] or whatever, feel free to jump in.

[14:07] Yeah, yeah, presenting, whatever's whatever.

[14:11] No, you tell us how you want it to roll.

[14:15] If you could, Bill.

[14:16] That's fine. Really, it's fine.

[14:18] Whatever's whatever he feels like, it's up to him.

[14:22] I'll wait till the end.

[14:24] Uh, next slide?

[14:28] So, more about the payments again, uh, you know, I I sort of got

[14:30] ahead of myself here,

[14:32] but you could see the payment schedule there.

[14:36] I will add that there's also pending legislation right now,

[14:38] as I understand it's in conference committee, committee

[14:41] to increase these payments.

[14:43] Um, these payments apply to both 40Y and 40R.

[14:48] Um, the pending legislation or the last version I saw anyway,

[14:51] doubled these payment amounts.

[14:53] Um, both on the incentive payment, uh, schedule and the bonus

[14:57] payment schedule.

[15:01] Um, so, yeah.

[15:03] Um, I think I've already covered this. We can go to the next slide.

[15:10] Uh, so as far as the process is concerned,

[15:13] really, uh, you know, it's helpful to have an initial consultation.

[15:17] Uh, we encourage that rather than just sort of sending in an application blind.

[15:22] Uh, I will say that actually we don't currently have

[15:24] the application posted on our website.

[15:26] We're trying to move to a an online form.

[15:30] Uh, and that is still in the process of being developed.

[15:35] Uh, but should not prevent anyone from applying.

[15:38] If you do, uh, ready to go,

[15:41] uh, we have an interim paper form that we are,

[15:43] you know, word document form that we can send out.

[15:47] Uh, the municipality prepares the application,

[15:50] which basically considers of a, you know,

[15:52] consists of a form along with a, uh, a, um, accompanying spreadsheet.

[15:58] Uh, for the parcels, uh, that might be contained in the district.

[16:03] Uh, we issue what's called, we have, uh, uh, effectively 45 days to issue

[16:07] a preliminary determination of eligibility.

[16:11] Um, and that application would include a draft of a zoning.

[16:15] Something we're also trying to develop is a,

[16:17] uh, you know, a sort of, uh,

[16:19] uh, I don't know if I want to refer to as a model bylaw,

[16:23] but at least a template that communities can work off of.

[16:26] Um, we have some informal ones at the moment,

[16:28] but they're not as polished as we'd like them to be.

[16:32] Uh, hence they are not yet posted.

[16:34] But, uh, again, don't let that be an obstacle if you're ready to go.

[16:38] Um, I can provide some informal, uh, models for use.

[16:43] Uh, once, uh, you know, and at that point it can go, uh, you know,

[16:47] after we've issued that, uh, determination of eligibility,

[16:50] the municipality can go ahead and vote.

[16:53] A town meeting,

[16:54] and uh, it's a simple majority vote generally.

[17:00] Um, we then just need proof that the zoning was adopted

[17:04] and to reconcile any changes that were made compared

[17:07] to the draft that we had approved.

[17:10] Uh, if it's a town, the bylaw has to get approved by the AG.

[17:16] And, um, really at that point the municipality may be eligible

[17:20] for that zoning incentive payment, that upfront payment,

[17:23] uh, assuming there are no, uh, conditions that, uh,

[17:27] we've placed on the, on the eligibility

[17:30] in terms of, uh, you know,

[17:32] significant infrastructure improvements,

[17:34] um, or things having to deal with ownership of the land.

[17:39] Um, that can be, uh, generally publicly owned land and, you know,

[17:43] not jumping ahead to our, to our, uh, test case,

[17:48] but, uh, publicly owned land, there can be conditions around that

[17:51] in terms of receipt of the zoning incentive payment.

[17:56] Um, the or timing, I should say, of the zoning incentive payment.

[18:00] Uh, and yeah, once, once we issue that, uh, second letter of approval,

[18:05] the, uh, you know, uh, district

[18:07] applicants could submit applications.

[18:12] And, uh, bonus, the bonus payment for that, you need the, uh,

[18:16] essentially evidence of building permits.

[18:18] And we need the, you know, decision

[18:21] to review the decision that was made.

[18:25] And, uh, if, uh, there are any affordability affordable units, so

[18:29] the affordable units again, apply to any project

[18:31] containing 13 or more starter homes.

[18:36] Uh, and anything less than that, actually you cannot require

[18:40] in the zoning affordability.

[18:45] Now if it's town owned land, um, and the town's going to dispose of,

[18:48] you know, have a disposition process or in control of it,

[18:52] um, you know, there are other ways that zoning, uh, affordability

[18:55] could be required on smaller projects.

[18:58] But, um, not in the zoning.

[19:03] Uh, and I think that covers that slide.

[19:08] And that may be it.

[19:09] Um, yeah, just, uh, a visual example of, you know,

[19:13] smaller homes clustered together, uh,

[19:16] in a denser situation, this is the Conquered Riverwalk project,

[19:20] which is not a starter home project, but, um,

[19:23] just sort of illustrative of it, I would say, perhaps.

[19:28] Um, and I think that's it.

[19:30] Uh, the last slide just provides my email address

[19:32] and my, um, my colleague's email address, contact information.

[19:39] Uh, and I hope I didn't run over on that, but, uh,

[19:42] I'll hand it over, hand it back to Anna.

[19:45] Oh, that's Unless, yeah. Yeah, that's great timing.

[19:48] And I think we could do some questions and then move into the case study.

[19:53] Custa?

[19:55] The incentive payments. Middleton has not adopted.

[20:00] after the MBTA zoning and therefore is ineligible for a state

[20:05] some state grants.

[20:09] Are we wasting our time with incentives here?

[20:14] Thanks for the question I was going to ask the same, Costa.

[20:18] Uh I cannot answer that definitively myself, but um

[20:23] uh that does sound like it could be an issue. I'll just leave it at that.

[20:28] Uh at least until, you know, that that that issue is reconciled, yeah.

[20:33] But we is there a minimum acreage requirement in in a 40 Y zone.

[20:42] No.

[20:45] Okay. Why did you pick 1850 square feet as the size?

[20:52] Uh seems like a Well Yeah.

[20:56] Uh, well, the legislature picked it. We we didn't pick it.

[21:01] Um, but uh, yeah, in fact, I mean the proponents of the bill

[21:07] uh, you know, before it passed in the legislature, honestly picked it.

[21:11] And they were uh, I think this, you know, I don't, you know,

[21:15] I don't think I'm uh divulging any secrets to, you know,

[21:18] this was uh uh sort of uh initiated I believe, or one of the

[21:24] you know, lead stakeholders was the uh home builders,

[21:26] mass home builders Association.

[21:28] Um, so

[21:30] I would I would I guess I would point to them as, you know, or

[21:33] that's that's where I'd have to get that question answered.

[21:35] But I think it's considered a home that's, you know, can comfortably

[21:39] uh accommodate uh, you know, three bedrooms.

[21:44] Um, and, you know, it's smaller perhaps than the average home size.

[21:50] Uh, I mean, their argument is that, you know, when you have large lot

[21:53] zoning, you have to build a big home on it to uh recoup your

[21:57] uh, you know, single family large lot zoning, you have to build

[22:02] a big enough home on it to recoup the land cost.

[22:06] Um, and so, I think what's what's the the the sort of uh

[22:12] proposition here is that by limiting the size of the homes, um, you can

[22:18] get some sort of more natural affordability beyond just the

[22:23] the minimum uh income restriction requirement of 10% at 110% of AMI.

[22:30] [notification sound]

[22:31] Beth, did you have a question?

[22:33] Yeah, uh if Massachusetts ballot measure seven passes,

[22:37] uh is this just free money because the the restrictions would no longer be enforceable?

[22:45] And they will be they'll permit so question seven says that you

[22:49] uh single family homes are permitted on all lots of 5,000

[22:54] uh uh square feet, I think.

[22:59] Um, and so it's would be higher density than this allows.

[23:02] Is like would this be a has there been discussions about what happens

[23:08] if that passes and this program is sort of redundant?

[23:15] Yeah, I think that the uh general conversation there has been,

[23:19] I mean, there have not been deep discussions that I've been involved

[23:23] in, but um, I think uh it just uh the conclusion is that it would sort

[23:28] of render uh 40Y uh sort of irrelevant in suward locations.

[23:37] I I heard you mention

[23:39] I heard you mention earlier the 1850 square feet you said it was,

[23:42] um, heated space.

[23:45] Is does that mean they could put up a, you know, a 2,000 square foot

[23:49] garage also, non-heated, attached to the

[23:53] attached to it?

[23:56] Could you said 1850 square feet of heated space?

[23:59] Is that just the full size or

[24:02] Right. And I and I think that I think the definition in the

[24:06] regulations actually gets into conditioned space. It it it

[24:10] connects it to the uh building code term conditioned space.

[24:15] Uh yeah, in theory, somebody could build a huge garage. Um,

[24:19] uh, you know, we hope that they'll be design standards in the

[24:23] communities uh, um, you know, uh

[24:26] in their zoning that would that would prevent that.

[24:33] Um, we haven't gotten into regulating that yet in the uh in the regulation.

[24:41] Thank you.

[24:41] Anyone else here have question? Herman, anything?

[24:44] I'm good.

[24:45] Good. All set.

[24:46] Did anyone in the audience go ahead?

[24:48] But yeah, certainly, certainly something to think about.

[24:50] You know. So RV 1850 square feet, but

[24:53] just to clarify, you said you could they would also be subject

[24:57] to the ADU

[25:01] Uh legislation so they could do an ADU in the back as well.

[25:06] And I think that's 900 square feet on the ADUs?

[25:09] Yes. Mhm.

[25:11] Uh 40Y preceded the state ADU bylaw

[25:16] and it referenced 600 square feet,

[25:20] so my understanding is that uh the regulations allow

[25:27] would allow a 40Y district to restrict to 600 square feet.

[25:32] Um, but they could go to 900. They could allow that.

[25:35] How could that be if it's preceded it and then the 900

[25:39] came in later, you would think the 900 superseded it.

[25:42] came in afterwards. So that's confusing, not very clear.

[25:45] Sorry, the 600 the 600 is I guess the more specific of the laws.

[25:49] I'm not a lawyer. I'm just parroting

[25:52] I guess or relaying what my what I've heard from our legal department

[25:58] is that um because 40Y is the more specific in this regard,

[26:04] uh and it preceded uh the state ADU law

[26:08] that um uh within a starter home district,

[26:13] you could restrict the ADUs to just 600 square feet.

[26:17] So if we were to Because that was Because that was specified in 40Y.

[26:23] If we were to proceed with this, perhaps we could get a uh

[26:27] let a confirming whether it's the 600 or the 950.

[26:32] 900.

[26:33] Uh, I mean, I would argue or encourage that it actually be put

[26:38] into the starter home zoning.

[26:40] It's in our it's in our regulations, our 40Y regulations.

[26:45] Um, I yeah, uh

[26:50] I That's the best I can answer that at the moment.

[26:54] Yeah. I

[26:55] I didn't want to add one thing about one thing about

[26:58] accessory dwelling is the way it's written is uh

[27:02] it's an accessory unit on the same lot as a starter home.

[27:07] So uh if you're doing uh and just based on what we've seen already

[27:14] uh in this regard, uh in terms of informal applications,

[27:18] we've seen some that have been uh condos

[27:22] proposed as condos anyway.

[27:25] Um, and so, you know, it's essentially all one lot.

[27:29] Um, so my understanding is you would just need to allow one

[27:35] 1 ADU on that in that type of arrangement.

[27:39] But if you do get into parcels, uh each starter home

[27:42] being on its own parcel, then you would have to allow a uh

[27:46] an ADU on each parcel.

[27:49] Um, I also didn't, I'm realizing that I I uh just briefly

[27:53] I didn't I sort of left out the program status. Uh, um,

[27:58] the program status is that we've received

[28:00] one we've issued one preliminary determination of eligibility so far.

[28:04] We've gotten one formal application since March.

[28:08] Uh, and it is for a very small 40Y district, um,

[28:12] that has to my knowledge not yet been adopt adopted

[28:15] but I expect that it will be in the next month or so.

[28:21] Sorry about that.

[28:22] No, thank you for adding that. And I think that,

[28:25] um, the ADU conversation kind of

[28:28] is a pathway I think into thinking about this

[28:34] in Middleton specifically because there are some considerations here,

[28:38] utilities and sewer or lack of sewer being one of them

[28:42] that would definitely um change how this would look

[28:45] and how we would implement it because

[28:48] um that is that is one thing I think some of

[28:53] at least the existing developments with smaller lots,

[28:58] some of them have been condo developments so that

[29:02] there is one um septic.

[29:05] Um, and then that would that changes how like

[29:09] basically how the zoning um would be applied.

[29:14] So I think this would be a good time I can just talk a little bit about um

[29:18] I just got a question first.

[29:20] Yes. Go ahead, Linda.

[29:22] Well, we've already covered.

[29:24] Um, if this kind of development were built on public land,

[29:29] who owns the land after development?

[29:34] I it seemed like you were suggesting that the land would continue to be

[29:37] public land.

[29:41] in which case the developed units would be on leased land or free

[29:46] leased land or

[29:48] I don't know, just

[29:49] I I can um know that?

[29:52] Well, it there were I think there would be a lot of considerations,

[29:56] but the reference to public land, I think was a case study.

[30:00] I wanted to look at um the town own 49 Locust Street,

[30:04] but I think the idea wouldn't be that the town develops.

[30:08] The idea is that land is suitable for development,

[30:12] and the town would sell it or

[30:15] have like it we would be able to put it we would be able to put it through the process so that the town did not own it

[30:22] at the time of development or past that.

[30:25] Does that Did that clear anything up or did I misspeak?

[30:29] Well,

[30:31] It does clear it up, but it raises another question of

[30:34] if the town own the the land,

[30:38] then that would be a way of insuring that there's affordability

[30:44] and starter home status

[30:49] is in perpetuity.

[30:51] that it could be a requirement of of ownership or transfer of title with the property or the the buildings.

[30:58] For the for the 10% affordability,

[31:02] that's allowed under this and Bill, please correct me if I'm not speaking,

[31:08] but my understanding is those are income restricted units.

[31:11] The same way that we have income restricted units already in town,

[31:16] they stay income restricted, there's an agreement that the town signs, whether or not the town owns the land.

[31:23] But at the time of development when those are approved as affordable units.

[31:30] So it becomes part of the title of the property.

[31:32] Is that this that if they sell the house, they if they sell the property with the buildings on it,

[31:41] Right. They would have to be

[31:43] Yes, there's a typically there's, yeah, there's a um deed restriction that gets filed on the property,

[31:49] and at the time of sale, one of the things that typically comes with that is the town has the right of first refusal

[31:54] to um purchase the land, but then the land is sold then at an affordable

[31:59] and it has that affordable cap.

[32:03] There's you can also set timelines when you when the when those are um being developed,

[32:09] you can put them on a timeline of 30 years, I think, or in perpetuity.

[32:16] There are some different ways and I don't I'm sorry, I don't know all the details of that.

[32:23] Um but we do keep a list in town, so that's how kind of we keep track of our affordable units.

[32:29] Did anybody else have anything

[32:30] I do want to be clear though that the again that the sta- statute

[32:37] and the regulations for 40 Y

[32:41] at at at just the minimum acreage, a minimum acreage, a minimum density of four units per developable acre,

[32:48] only allow uh the zoning to require that 10% of the units are income restricted

[32:53] up to 110% of AMI.

[33:00] So they're not SHI eligible units.

[33:04] If you want SHI uh sorry, I'm using lingo here, but I'm uh imagine people are familiar

[33:09] with the subsidized housing inventory.

[33:13] Uh if you want the development to have include SHI eligible units,

[33:18] that needs to be um uh incentivized

[33:22] as an option to the applicant.

[33:27] Um through a density bonus.

[33:29] So for instance, you allow seven starter homes per acre or six or seven, you know, something that entices

[33:34] uh the developer to choose that option.

[33:40] But they need to be able to develop the four units at the four units per acre density at just the 10% units

[33:47] at 10% of AMI and it only applies to projects that are 12 uh sorry, 13 or more units,

[33:52] 13 or more starter homes.

[33:58] Gus, do you have a question?

[34:00] Is the 1850 square foot maximum size

[34:06] a condition in perpetuity?

[34:10] Or can somebody buy this 1850 square foot home

[34:15] and 10 years later when they sell it, it's a 3,000 square foot home.

[34:23] You know, there was discussion of this when we were doing the regulations and uh

[34:28] ultimately the decision was to um uh

[34:33] you know, in a in a condominium situation, uh which may be uh house

[34:39] uh how some of these uh developments proceed,

[34:42] um you know, that that could be addressed in the condo docs.

[34:49] Um the but really I think, you know, it'll be in the zoning

[34:52] that the unit is restricted to 1850 square feet.

[34:58] Um, beyond that,

[35:00] I think it's gonna be up to the building inspector

[35:02] and the town, uh,

[35:03] you know,

[35:06] how that's, how that's, um,

[35:09] enforced.

[35:12] Uh, I mean, I can certainly take this question back to our legal department

[35:16] and, uh, if if, you know, um,

[35:20] and and, uh, follow up with any

[35:24] additional information, but, uh,

[35:27] really I can tell you that in the the regulations don't specifically address it.

[35:32] Um, which doesn't mean that we're not open to, um, you know,

[35:37] the town putting more explicit requirements in the zoning,

[35:41] um, to prevent that.

[35:47] Go ahead.

[35:48] Um, definition of

[35:50] I just, I just think we wanted to leave it, you know, I mean you can

[35:54] look at it two ways, either we we sort of punted on the issue or

[35:58] we wanted to, uh, you know, um,

[36:02] sort of see, you know, how municipalities wanted to deal with that.

[36:07] Um, definition of developable land.

[36:11] So if it's two acres, but half of it's two acres, but half of it's wet, then they'd still be limited to

[36:15] four units or could they pack eight

[36:18] on the remaining acre that's buildable?

[36:22] No, the density would be based, uh, would would would be based on that

[36:27] that net acreage of developable land.

[36:32] Okay. So it'd be, yeah.

[36:34] Got you.

[36:37] Uh, I mean, honestly, the, and by that I mean, that's what we would

[36:43] require that the zoning allows.

[36:45] If the municipality wants to allow more density than that, that's fine

[36:48] with us. But, um, in terms of meeting the the minimum density

[36:53] required for the program, that's

[36:56] And the minimum. That's what we would be looking at.

[36:57] Yeah, so the minimum density, just so there's some context for you all.

[37:02] Four units per acre is compared to our current zoning right now,

[37:08] about half acre lot, or half lots in the R1A district.

[37:14] So our R1A district lots are currently right now,

[37:20] um, 20,000 square feet.

[37:24] So this would be about two homes, two units per lot in R1A.

[37:29] In R1B, it would be

[37:31] like closer to four homes per lot.

[37:35] Those lots are closer to one acre lots.

[37:38] Um, we do them by square feet instead of acreage, but

[37:42] just so you can get a sense of what the actual density would feel like.

[37:47] That's essentially what it would feel like.

[37:52] And I'm going to try and pull up a couple pictures, but

[38:01] I've forgotten how to use my laptop tonight.

[38:05] So we'll see if I can do it.

[38:07] There goes Bill.

[38:08] [mouse clicking]

[38:21] Okay.

[38:22] [mouse clicking]

[38:32] So, this one I pulled an example, um, Wonderburg Road, because I

[38:39] I took a look, just a quick look, um, I'm going to make this bigger

[38:44] because it's too small on my slide.

[38:48] But this was one example. So this is in our R1A zone, and some of

[38:55] these lots are a little smaller than the 20,000 square feet already.

[39:00] Um, and so this is closer to what, um, what I think potentially one

[39:07] of these developments might feel like.

[39:09] Although I do think that there would be some opportunity and that's

[39:14] part of my interest is that there would be some opportunity to have,

[39:19] um, something that felt more basically more like a cluster

[39:23] development. So a little bit more like the homes are together on one

[39:27] part of the parcel and then there's

[39:29] open space on the rest of the parcel.

[39:31] This is also something that we looked at a little bit,

[39:34] um, and are thinking about as we're looking at some of the zoning

[39:39] changes and thinking through our flexible development bylaw,

[39:45] Our flexible development bylaw is probably the closest thing we have

[39:50] right now in Middleton to an open space, um, development, residential

[39:55] development, but it encourages essentially, um, homes closer

[39:59] together on smaller

[40:00] lots or smaller parcels

[40:02] with open space um

[40:05] can be really useful especially if there's wet wetlands

[40:09] or um parts of the land that are just not as developable.

[40:15] I did want to just look briefly at

[40:19] [clicking]

[40:21] um 49 Locus Street.

[40:25] So, the 49 Locus Street, um, property right now

[40:30] is is town-owned, and there were some discussions

[40:34] uh before actually I started here.

[40:37] So anybody who has more information, please feel free to jump in,

[40:41] but this is to my knowledge, there were some conversation about um

[40:44] potential residential development on that property what that could look like.

[40:49] It is um right now zone residential undeveloped.

[40:52] And there are uh there's a pretty significant wetlands um on the property,

[40:58] it also, I think, abuts uh town conservation land

[41:02] that would stay conservation land.

[41:09] You could kind of see the um yellow on here is

[41:16] I believe

[41:19] You know what, we're going to leave that.

[41:22] I don't want to misspeak.

[41:24] Um so there were two

[41:27] kind of two um

[41:30] plot plans engineered to see about

[41:33] about how many

[41:36] single family or um actually some of these do a single family

[41:43] and a two-family.

[41:44] Um option,

[41:47] but essentially looking at this parcel to see what it would look like if

[41:52] there was um flexibility in the zoning to allow for

[41:58] something like the flex development so smaller lot sizes um

[42:04] and leaving some open space.

[42:07] So this is one example, this has, I believe, 12 lots.

[42:12] Um, some of these I think were modeled as two-family lots.

[42:17] So I think it was 18 units would still be on um this overall plan.

[42:24] And just so we can kind of get a visual of what it would look like.

[42:30] And then the other scenario that would be um all single-family would be

[42:37] again, um 18 or a total of 17, excuse me,

[42:42] 17 homes, um each on a single single kind of lot,

[42:49] but I think in this scenario, it it could have gone it could have.

[42:53] I think this was developed with the idea that it would be a um common

[42:59] co-owned, so it would be a common ownership of utilities.

[43:03] Um, including a septic, common septic.

[43:10] Does that maximize all of the developable land on that parcel?

[43:17] Um, most likely, yes, these plans would try and maximize

[43:22] the developable land.

[43:24] Um, there is this back part of the parcel is a lot of wetlands.

[43:28] Yeah.

[43:30] Um, this was developed obviously with not strict, like this this development

[43:36] right here would require variances from our current zoning

[43:40] um on lot size.

[43:42] And so that was one of the things, one of the reasons why

[43:45] I started thinking about this parcel.

[43:47] Um,

[43:49] but yes, developable land is mostly on the front side of the parcel.

[43:54] Uh, and

[43:54] the land across the way that jets out in that rectangle,

[44:02] there is developable land there where your cursor is.

[44:08] So, because this land was originally bought to build a school on and part of

[44:15] the school facilities

[44:17] would have been in that triangle, in that rectangle rather.

[44:21] So, the answer to the when this question, does it maximize the use of the

[44:28] developable land? The answer is no.

[44:35] Thank you.

[44:41] somebody came and presented this, what, like a year and a half, two years ago to

[44:45] the select board? I don't remember if he got into that or I don't remember if any

[44:48] guidance from the select board in terms of that one.

[44:50] Uh, the issue of, you know, maximizing the development was not

[44:56] thought of or asked.

[45:06] So, I want to bring up, um,

[45:10] or I guess I would like to just ask.

[45:13] So if we were going to walk through,

[45:15] Bill, I brought you back on the screen.

[45:19] I had you off for a minute while I showed the slides,

[45:21] but you're you're back on the screen.

[45:24] Um, so if we wanted to look and try and think

[45:27] about, okay, how

[45:31] thinking that there's already, um,

[45:36] you know, a hopeful plan that maybe this land would be

[45:39] developed as a residential, um, community in the future.

[45:44] And thinking the town does have, um,

[45:47] you know, currently it's town owned,

[45:50] but that there could be possibility for development

[45:52] in the future.

[45:54] How would you walk us through sort of looking at those

[45:58] incentives, determining how we might go about, um,

[46:01] thinking about, you know, how would we maximize

[46:07] I guess what we may be able to use the zoning for.

[46:13] One of the things that is interesting to me is,

[46:15] um, around the design guidelines actually

[46:19] and it was really helpful that you went through that

[46:22] because I think, um, normally residential properties

[46:25] the town does not review those plans.

[46:30] Um, if it comes in as a subdivision,

[46:32] we do review a subdivision plan,

[46:34] but we don't apply design guidelines,

[46:38] and we don't have necessarily a site plan review for, um,

[46:47] And so I'm curious how how we might be able to think

[46:50] if we wanted to think about, okay, would this be worthwhile,

[46:53] is this something that we should sit down and walk

[46:56] through some calculations,

[46:58] is there an engineering plan that we would need to look at

[47:02] and and yeah, could you offer a little bit of, you know,

[47:05] where would you start if if this was if you were starting

[47:07] from a parcel.

[47:12] Uh, well, I guess, you know, there there'd be some sort of

[47:15] preliminary questions that I think need to be answered

[47:18] like, does the, you know, is the is the, you know,

[47:22] statutes, uh, limitations on affordable housing, uh,

[47:27] is that, uh, does that does that compatible with what the

[47:32] the hopes and dreams are for this parcel?

[47:36] Um, you know, if not, uh,

[47:39] could there be uh incentives, uh, would that be something,

[47:42] uh, you know, density bonuses within the within the 40R?

[47:47] Um, although again, I admit you know,

[47:50] again, there there may be uh, you know, because the

[47:52] town owns the land,

[47:53] uh, it may be a different, uh, situation because,

[47:57] um, you know, can place conditions on the sale

[48:00] of that land through our RFP process.

[48:03] through our RFP process.

[48:05] Um, but we would certainly want to uh, review that

[48:08] and have an understanding of that,

[48:12] and that would be part of our rationale, I think for

[48:14] in this in this kind of scenario,

[48:17] um, maybe conditioning the zoning incentive payment on,

[48:22] uh, evidence of, you know, a corresponding number of

[48:26] starter homes actually constructed, rather than

[48:29] being something that we we issue up front.

[48:34] Um, uh, you know, beyond, um, that, I mean, you know,

[48:38] generally how we approach a situation like this.

[48:41] I mean, I my, my analogy is

[48:43] uh, really with with 40R is we, we come up with a

[48:47] developable land figure.

[48:51] And we multiply that by the required density minimum, uh,

[48:54] which in this case is four.

[48:58] And that is the number of units that we are expecting,

[49:02] uh, the zoning would allow by right.

[49:07] Um, and if there are other standards and controls that

[49:11] are going to prevent that from happening,

[49:14] uh, we want to identify that and, uh, understand that,

[49:19] uh, because, you know, one of my jobs is to make sure

[49:23] that we don't, um,

[49:26] you know, pay for units that aren't don't materialize,

[49:30] uh, if if to put it indelicately.

[49:34] Um, or to to minimize that.

[49:39] Uh, you know, I, I mean, I sent that spreadsheet along,

[49:42] uh, that is our working draft of our spreadsheet in terms

[49:46] of, uh, looking at this, um,

[49:48] there, you know, obviously are other factors that can

[49:52] come into play in terms of,

[49:54] uh, um, you know,

[50:00] What infrastructure needs to be uh, you know, you know, I don't know if

[50:07] if there's been any discussions with developers. I assume this this parcel

[50:11] has no public sewer. So, um, you know,

[50:13] uh, how the how the um, the septic is going to be handled.

[50:19] Um, and what how that might relate to uh, the capacity.

[50:24] Um, of the of the uh, parcel.

[50:29] Um, beyond that, uh, it's really drafting zoning.

[50:34] I mean, uh, I I think in a situation like this, the at the end of the day,

[50:40] um, you know, the uh, because it's publicly owned land,

[50:45] um, we do have the discretion to condition the zoning incentive payment

[50:50] and we would likely uh, exercise that in this situation

[50:56] unless we're pretty confident, um,

[50:58] what the you know, what number of units we're going to ultimately be built,

[51:04] um, or could be built on the parcel.

[51:08] Um, you know, beyond the spreadsheet, I really uh, I don't I don't have much

[51:14] direction to provide at this point.

[51:15] Um, it's usually, I will say it is sort of an iterative process. I mean, the application itself is pretty simple.

[51:22] It's like give us a map of the location, identify uh, the upland area,

[51:30] um, based on the definition of the developable land.

[51:33] I can I I can forward that from the regulations.

[51:38] Um, and, you know, fill out that spreadsheet that I provided you with.

[51:45] Um, and that's our uh, you know, out of that, we would issue an eligibility letter

[51:52] that would um, you know, condition it

[51:56] uh, condition the district as necessary,

[51:59] Um, uh, and by the district, I mean, you know, sort of the

[52:04] any any restrictions on the pay on the payments.

[52:08] Um, as I said, if there was significant infrastructure that needed to be,

[52:14] you know, if the town was going to require a sidewalk or something connecting to,

[52:20] um, you know, adjacent nearby sidewalks or something like that,

[52:23] um, and it wasn't clear that, um,

[52:27] that was going to be something that a builder could easily accommodate.

[52:31] Um, you know, we might condition the payment on that, uh,

[52:35] uh, there could be a variety of reasons.

[52:39] Um, but that's I will say that in general, um,

[52:45] where we're not issuing a payment upfront prior to construction,

[52:50] we do we are able to be a little more flexible.

[52:54] Um, if that's, you know, just as a sort of a general comment.

[52:59] Um,

[53:00] Yeah. No, that's that's helpful.

[53:02] And I I think you answered my question and certainly this is a very hypothetical conversation.

[53:07] I wanted to bring this one, this

[53:09] particular parcel as a way to

[53:12] sort of understand the zoning,

[53:14] how we could apply it. I I think

[53:16] we would be uh, pretty far off if

[53:19] we were going to move in that direction.

[53:21] Um, to actually, to actually looking at, um, passing zoning.

[53:25] Yeah. Yeah.

[53:27] I mean,

[53:28] I think, you know, my advice to communities generally and and I, you know, there are

[53:33] uh, you know, there's some quite a few similarities with 40R.

[53:39] There are differences,

[53:40] but, you know,

[53:41] Um, uh, the money's can be, you know, is it helps, it's nice,

[53:45] but it's it's not enough at the moment anyway to be a driving factor.

[53:49] I would figure out what the town's priorities are

[53:51] and uh, how they'd like to see this site developed

[53:55] and then see if we can marry that

[53:57] with the program.

[53:59] Um,

[54:00] Uh,

[54:02] Yeah. You know, but

[54:06] Well, thank you so much.

[54:07] I really appreciate your time. I want to, I'm looking at

[54:11] we're we're about at 7 right now. So thank you,

[54:14] thank you so much for for joining us tonight.

[54:16] Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.

[54:18] Thank you. Thank you, Bill.

[54:21] Thank you all and uh, you have my email,

[54:24] feel free to reach out and as I said,

[54:26] I can follow up with uh, that definition of regula

[54:30] uh, the regulatory definition of developable land.

[54:32] Uh, that's helpful.

[54:35] Um, and anything else, uh, that may, um,

[54:40] help you uh, figure this out, um, and whether it's something that you're interested in and want to proceed with.

[54:46] Thank you so much.

[54:48] Thank you. Yeah.

[54:50] Bye. Hi. Bye.

[54:54] [chime]

[54:55] Do you want to have anything else, Anna? Should I go?

[55:00] to the rest of the agenda.

[55:01] Yeah, you can go on.

[55:02] I didn't know if anybody in the audience had anything to say before I go on to the rest of the affordable housing trust agenda.

[55:09] Got one question, maybe it was better for hand, but we could always follow up sometime.

[55:14] Just make sure I have this right.

[55:16] So the state's going to make two payments on this.

[55:19] If the town approves the district, then we get paid

[55:23] and once it's developed and they're actually built, then we get paid again.

[55:28] So it seem about right?

[55:29] Maybe they said. I said maybe.

[55:31] I thought I heard maybe. A big maybe in there.

[55:34] And I didn't get to ask him. I think you asked the question,

[55:37] but then we were holding it to the end.

[55:39] You asked how it was going to come in and out.

[55:40] I really didn't get that clarity

[55:42] that I think you were looking for too.

[55:46] So I'm just, you know, I'm I'm I'm looking at that

[55:49] in relation to the public land we have at 49.

[55:55] just wondering like, okay, say we approved this district

[55:59] and we get the $10,000 bonus

[56:01] because we increased the amount of starter homes that would go in there.

[56:06] In which place up in Locus you're talking about?

[56:08] Or you talking someone, Okay. I didn't

[56:09] Or anything. I didn't hear you saying.

[56:11] hypothetical. Got you.

[56:15] And then it gets sold to a developer.

[56:17] Now the developer decides, you know what,

[56:20] I'm going to build big houses.

[56:23] Do we still get to re

[56:24] I think that would be a question for him if we ever do approve this.

[56:27] I mean, do we still get to keep that money even though the developer

[56:30] came in and said, I'm not going to I'm not I don't care about that

[56:32] zoning and I'm going to stick with the old zoning.

[56:35] Does it are you imagining like a special permit situation?

[56:40] Like how would how would that

[56:42] Well, it seemed like the town would get one payment if we approved

[56:46] any area

[56:48] Yeah. For this particular zoning.

[56:49] Yeah.

[56:50] Okay. So the town could approve it,

[56:55] we get paid

[56:57] And then the builder comes in and says, you know what,

[57:01] I don't care. I don't want to build four houses.

[57:03] There I'm going to build one monster.

[57:05] But we've already changed the zoning.

[57:06] we can put we can put restrictions on it.

[57:07] That's that's that.

[57:09] That's a whole thing we can put we can put our restriction on it.

[57:11] If we sell it to them, he has to do it by this cluster zoning.

[57:15] That's if we own the land.

[57:18] Now if he gets somebody off off the street don't own it, then no.

[57:21] Well then ance to pull that.

[57:24] Exactly. We can't do it by right.

[57:26] Right. Exactly.

[57:27] It's going to be more costly.

[57:28] There's going to be chances for the neighbors to show up and argue.

[57:32] Like the advantage of this is that it creates zoning that

[57:35] would produce smaller houses. Right.

[57:40] That's the that's the actual pitch.

[57:42] As if if people are are worried about

[57:46] the giant houses going in that take up as much of the lot as they like,

[57:52] yeah, we we all see how big the pits are

[57:54] that are being dug along Forest Street.

[57:57] Right, that's what I think the advantage of this is.

[58:01] Except cramming four houses for affordable houses.

[58:04] Right, right. That doesn't mean that.

[58:06] Yeah.

[58:07] Yeah.

[58:10] Oh, we get a lot of people who complain anytime anything is

[58:12] pitched as affordable though, also, right?

[58:15] So that's not a necessarily a downside.

[58:17] That could be an upside for a lot of people.

[58:18] like cost of interest. I think that's what he was saying.

[58:20] Okay, yeah.

[58:21] Because, you know,

[58:23] A starter home, right, is something that, yeah,

[58:27] a family just starting out in their life can afford to live in.

[58:33] But an 1850 square foot house

[58:37] is not that sell for 700 or 1.5 million,

[58:41] depending on the finishes, you know, etc.

[58:47] So calling them starter homes without a price cap on it,

[58:54] Right.

[58:55] doesn't accomplish anything as far as I'm concerned.

[58:58] That's why you had that question in the beginning,

[59:00] how'd you come up with that?

[59:01] You just you end up with smaller houses.

[59:04] But not necessarily somebody in their twenties

[59:07] or thirties can afford.

[59:10] And, well, it's still more affordable.

[59:15] It's $300 a foot to build a house.

[59:18] If you're going to be able to build four houses

[59:21] somewhere where normally you'd only be building one.

[59:26] Now you can take that land cost and divide it between four.

[59:31] So you're probably looking at a $550,000 build.

[59:37] And now you got a $400,000 lot

[59:40] but now you can put four houses there instead of one.

[59:44] So you're looking at a cost of the build of probably around 650.

[59:50] And he's going to sell it for 80.

[59:52] That's not affordable.

[59:55] But it's way cheaper than what's available than now.

[59:58] It's still a good. I mean, it's still

[1:00:00] other than the 1.1 that stuff is going for, so

[1:00:04] Not much different. still not affordable.

[1:00:06] It's not.

[1:00:07] Affordable affordable housing in Massachusetts right now, they consider is $538,000.

[1:00:12] Yeah, not the 800.

[1:00:14] That's that's what they consider an affordable house.

[1:00:16] Right.

[1:00:17] Now, that could be, you know, like my home on PB stre I have two houses there. One in the back's worth more than the one in the front.

[1:00:25] M.

[1:00:26] So, you know, I also got three acres.

[1:00:28] So I could turn both down, I got three clean acres.

[1:00:32] And I can put up, you know, 12, 12 houses if I want to.

[1:00:36] I wouldn't because it's not feasible for me because of the cost.

[1:00:40] Mhm.

[1:00:41] Because if you want to make it affordable,

[1:00:43] right? You, you know, you get to sell the houses here's talking about affordable affordability.

[1:00:48] Massachusetts is $538,000 for affordability right now.

[1:00:52] So, it's the way that it's going back and forth.

[1:00:56] It's

[1:00:57] for for the house, I mean, 1800, 1850 square foot house. I'm sorry. I don't think that's a big house.

[1:01:03] Some people might think it is huge.

[1:01:04] But he's saying the cost of In the day, there was a big house.

[1:01:07] It was a big house. Now it's not you got you got 12, 13,000 square foot houses now going up in Middleton.

[1:01:12] 18,000 square.

[1:01:13] is the objective to maximize the revenue to the town,

[1:01:17] or is the objective to make affordable housing?

[1:01:19] I think we're trying to maximize the revenue to the town. That's the whole idea of the incentive goes.

[1:01:24] And now you got four houses on a lot where one might normally be, now you got a ton more property taxes as well.

[1:01:30] Well, if we wanted to maximize the revenue to the town, we would be

[1:01:35] zoning for multifamily, we wouldn't be zoning for small houses

[1:01:38] that support actual family, single family life.

[1:01:44] That doesn't maximize taxes to the town.

[1:01:49] Yeah, if you think about you put four houses on one acre at 1850 square feet.

[1:01:54] Right? Add that up.

[1:01:55] Someone could put up a, you know, someone could put up a 12,000 square foot house in one lot.

[1:02:01] Right? Their taxes, you know, the tax revenue's going to be the same.

[1:02:05] Potentially.

[1:02:06] I don't know, they're like an acre in my neighborhood and you're looking typically at like a 4,000 square foot house.

[1:02:13] Mhm.

[1:02:15] Yeah, like they just sold they just sold they just sold a lot, the last lot down in Kochie, they sold for $988,000.

[1:02:20] Just for a lot.

[1:02:21] Yes for a lot.

[1:02:22] It's for a lot.

[1:02:23] Reds getting lot uh upon uh up off of Kimka.

[1:02:28] Simka, yeah.

[1:02:28] They're getting lots for they're getting lots for they're getting lots for over a million dollars just for a lot.

[1:02:31] So then you have to put 1, two, two acre lots, 10 units on it just to get something down to affordable.

[1:02:38] Like the only way we're going to get the numbers that you're imagine

[1:02:41] that that people are batting around as affordable is small apartments in large buildings.

[1:02:47] I think that there's a real appetite in the town to

[1:02:51] not to be in that middle area.

[1:02:56] Where maybe it's not as cheap as we might want, but

[1:03:00] there's the option to have things you can't get other places.

[1:03:06] A small apartment in a large building?

[1:03:08] That's what you're saying?

[1:03:09] No, no, I for I was trying to in support of the starter home idea.

[1:03:15] Is these are things that are just not going to be built if we're trying to maximize profits.

[1:03:19] Or if we're trying to maximize or if you just let people build everything they could possibly want,

[1:03:25] they're either going to it's either going to it's either going to be super rich people building huge buildings.

[1:03:29] Or it's going to be developers building as many units as the sewage will support.

[1:03:35] The septic will support.

[1:03:36] Septic. Yes.

[1:03:37] Around here. I I was trying to be generic. There are places where

[1:03:41] I know.

[1:03:43] pool.

[1:03:45] But the this is more about a a stronger hand in shaping a community where

[1:03:54] families that yeah, they're not it's not it's not going to be people who are working minimum wage jobs

[1:03:59] who are affording these buildings.

[1:04:02] But it is going to be people working ordinary white collar jobs.

[1:04:07] Ordinary union jobs are going to be able to afford a house like this still.

[1:04:12] Well,

[1:04:13] Yep.

[1:04:14] That's So, um, do we want to move on or?

[1:04:17] Cuz I think we could Obviously go I mean, it's interesting and we could go on and on about it.

[1:04:21] I think we're.

[1:04:22] We all are interested in this kind of stuff, but we have to have some closure.

[1:04:26] I think to the to the item.

[1:04:28] So I I do want to make a simple point to make a simple point to your point about maximizing town revenue.

[1:04:34] In 2008, when we had the housing crisis and we had some problems,

[1:04:39] people just gave the keys back to the bank and they left.

[1:04:42] Middleton had a serious problem in terms of town revenue.

[1:04:46] So we cannot continue to have 20,000 square foot homes because when things get really hot and tight,

[1:04:52] and they give the money back to the back the keys back to the bank,

[1:04:54] it is the people in the smaller homes that keep the town going.

[1:04:58] So I think we need as part of a future strategy.

[1:05:02] to say we would still welcome the

[1:05:04] big homes, but we want to make sure we have enough smaller homes

[1:05:08] so that if there's an economic shock in the future,

[1:05:11] Middleton doesn't suddenly look in their hole in their bank balance and go,

[1:05:15] Hmm, we have a massive hole that we have no way to fill.

[1:05:18] So by having these start up, start up homes, I'm with you,

[1:05:22] in that if we can increase the, you know, real estate taxes,

[1:05:24] the revenue, that is also a benefit that we are looking for.

[1:05:29] Okay. Thank you.

[1:05:31] Okay.

[1:05:32] should I take it over back to the affordable housing trust?

[1:05:36] Is that is that okay with everybody

[1:05:37] unless anyone else had any further comments, Linda?

[1:05:40] Thank you all for including us.

[1:05:42] Oh, you're welcome. This is a great opportunity to learn about some.

[1:05:46] It's all very interesting to all of us, I think.

[1:05:48] Like we said, we could go on and on talking about it.

[1:05:51] [laughter]

[1:05:51] Thank you. Thanks for your time.

[1:05:53] If you guys want to stay, you're more than welcome.

[1:05:56] [laughter]

[1:05:57] That's all right. I'm here. [laughter]

[1:06:00] Thank you. This is the, this is the public housing trust, right?

[1:06:04] Affordable housing trust. Yeah.

[1:06:07] Yes.

[1:06:08] Um, so we go on to our agenda item.

[1:06:11] The next agenda item is the annual reorganization of the trust.

[1:06:16] Um, Tom, did you did you want to make a motion?

[1:06:19] I'll I'll wait to make a motion for the next. Oh, Richard.

[1:06:21] I'd like to motion that Briann remains as our chair,

[1:06:24] Maria remains as our vice chair,

[1:06:26] I remain as treasurer,

[1:06:29] and Herman remains as clerk for the next year.

[1:06:31] I'll second that. All in favor? I. Aye.

[1:06:34] [laughter]

[1:06:37] We'll let Brian know he is re-named. [laughter]

[1:06:41] as all item, I'm going to tell him he's on for all four items.

[1:06:44] [laughter]

[1:06:47] Joking.

[1:06:48] Okay, we'll go on to to approve our minutes of May 6th.

[1:06:51] Does anyone have any comments, any edits to those minutes?

[1:06:55] I'll make a motion to approve.

[1:06:57] Uh, can I have a second? I'll second.

[1:06:58] Beth.

[1:06:59] Second.

[1:07:00] All in favor? I. Aye.

[1:07:03] Great.

[1:07:04] So, uh, we will move on to the next item, the working session on the

[1:07:07] five-year action plan.

[1:07:09] Anna, would you did you want to talk about that?

[1:07:13] Um, I don't have many updates on the home repair program.

[1:07:16] We have one project that's ongoing and as far as I know, it's going well.

[1:07:22] I haven't gotten um, uh, like a complete report, but when it comes

[1:07:25] through, I'll bring it

[1:07:27] to you all and um, I've had a few people inquiring about the program,

[1:07:32] I have not heard of any more applications that have been submitted.

[1:07:36] That one that you just mentioned, when will that be finishing up,

[1:07:39] do you know, approximately?

[1:07:41] Should be soon.

[1:07:42] I would say in the next month.

[1:07:44] Nice. Very good.

[1:07:46] Is there any way we can post a notice to the town that we are now

[1:07:50] underway with our first project

[1:07:53] and try to stimulate more applicants?

[1:07:56] That way?

[1:07:57] I don't know whether to do it on the Facebook page or.

[1:07:59] Yeah.

[1:08:00] I can put together um, a little post and we can probably put it on our

[1:08:03] socials.

[1:08:05] We do have this one up, right?

[1:08:06] We have this up, this one you guys have seen.

[1:08:08] Yeah.

[1:08:09] Yeah, we've seen that but now we have our first actual.

[1:08:11] Yeah, actual.

[1:08:12] Maybe we should update.

[1:08:13] It's a real thing. Someone's using it. It could be you. [laughter]

[1:08:16] So, yes. That's a tag, good tag. [laughter]

[1:08:20] Is if there's a way to show the improvements without identifying.

[1:08:27] Yeah, maybe. I don't know.

[1:08:29] That I think would be.

[1:08:29] Hmm.

[1:08:30] Yeah, I think we did discuss that too before.

[1:08:32] We did.

[1:08:33] I think we did talk about that to keep the privacy of the homeowner,

[1:08:37] but to highlight the, you know, maybe what was done and

[1:08:40] you know, key items perhaps.

[1:08:42] That's still keeping.

[1:08:44] Yeah, I could do I could do that two ways.

[1:08:46] One, I could we have like in our um, cost estimate that we approved, we

[1:08:50] have the types of repairs that were completed,

[1:08:55] so I could get like a generic picture with the those things.

[1:08:59] Okay.

[1:09:00] That'd be great. I think.

[1:09:01] I think everyone like a picture is worth a thousand words as they say.

[1:09:04] I think that really helps.

[1:09:05] Okay.

[1:09:06] people see, oh, well, this is what they did at that property,

[1:09:09] that could be my house or some aspect of that could be something

[1:09:11] that I could do.

[1:09:12] Versus, you know, some of this is just like a generic, but when you

[1:09:16] see, oh, this was really a place in Middleton and this was done.

[1:09:19] I think that might help people to consider applying.

[1:09:24] Anything else, Anna on that?

[1:09:26] Or does anyone have any comments or questions on that part,

[1:09:29] the five-year action plan?

[1:09:31] So, um, the home repair program,

[1:09:33] there is a conversation that's going to be happening, Anna's been helping

[1:09:36] me with, you know, getting the agenda together.

[1:09:40] I will be talking to the seniors at the COA about the affordable housing

[1:09:43] trust home repair program.

[1:09:47] Uh, in an effort to help stimulate and get them interested in applying

[1:09:50] and helping with that, so hopefully we can drum up some interest there.

[1:09:56] You're going to do that on the 21st, I believe, I saw the email.

[1:09:59] I can't remember the exact date, but it's.

[1:10:01] Oh, I saw that. But maybe it's changing.

[1:10:03] No, no, no, it's not changing, it's just.

[1:10:04] top of my mind.

[1:10:05] but we're going to put together a presentation that says, what is the affordable housing trust?

[1:10:09] What is the home repair program? How do you apply? What does it cover? What is it not cover?

[1:10:13] What is the difference between a grant, a loan, a lean, all these different things?

[1:10:20] And some conditions that when you do sell the home, there may be some restrictions based on, you know, the amount of work that was done, if it needs to be paid back or not, that sort of thing.

[1:10:29] So, hopefully when we finish with the Council on aging, we can use that as a sort of a template.

[1:10:35] Right? So that if anybody else is interested, it could probably possibly go up on the website for people to download and review on their own.

[1:10:42] So I think the more information we have as well,

[1:10:44] We need to reach out to the O-55 communities we have in because they all can be eligible for this.

[1:10:49] Yes. Definitely. Yes.

[1:10:51] Are you going to you're going to I know it said here in the email that Fire Fighters are always going to be there and yourself, but are you going to have someone like Anna to come in and explain?

[1:10:59] So she's not going to be there because I think, you know, we talked about you being present and you had a prior engagement.

[1:11:05] Yes. Oh, I see. Okay. And you're all you're okay with it all?

[1:11:08] Yeah, so I'm going to continue with Anna either this week or next week.

[1:11:12] No Anna. Anna.

[1:11:14] I watch too much Frozen with my children when they were young kids.

[1:11:18] Um, and when we form the presentation, we are going to review it to make sure that it's correct.

[1:11:25] And we're not communicating anything that we shouldn't be.

[1:11:27] And then I'll do it on my own.

[1:11:29] Excellent. That's great. We really appreciate that.

[1:11:32] Thank you.

[1:11:33] Let us know if there's anything you need from any of the board members, maybe if you have questions, especially for Anna or someone on the board.

[1:11:39] Maybe when I finish the presentation, I'll send it out to the team for them to review.

[1:11:42] Oh, that'd be nice.

[1:11:43] And then people to provide their feedback and then we can include that before the.

[1:11:46] That'll be great. You never know someone may have a little comment but that might help out.

[1:11:50] Great.

[1:11:51] Great. Thank you.

[1:11:53] Um, that's that on that.

[1:11:55] Um, next is the Treasurer's Treasurer's update.

[1:11:58] Do you want to do it?

[1:11:59] What do I miss?

[1:12:00] The lending program?

[1:12:02] Tool program.

[1:12:03] Oh, I was going to do that with should I do that with the treasures or with this one?

[1:12:06] Doesn't matter.

[1:12:07] do with this one.

[1:12:08] I was going to cuz you said you were going to cuz you said you were going to mentioning it during the treasures report.

[1:12:11] That's fine.

[1:12:12] So, we had talked about the uh Library of Things and the lending program.

[1:12:16] I handed you each, oh, hang on, let me give you a copy, I'd give you one.

[1:12:20] Not here yet.

[1:12:21] I want to give you that so that you have the um lending agreement, and I gave one to Anna.

[1:12:26] And this is basically what's at the library presently, the tools aren't on there yet.

[1:12:30] We have allocated $3,000 to the program for the library for the tools.

[1:12:35] Okay.

[1:12:36] And I've not seen any it for FY 26 or the first month of FY 27.

[1:12:42] So Paige has told me she's tried to communicate with you and Jackie, but hasn't had any feedback yet, could you make sure you get in touch with her cuz I really like to see that put in place.

[1:12:52] Yeah. I mean, we've allocated the money, we should have that put together.

[1:12:56] Um, so I would like to see that go forward, perhaps you can have that done, at least engage with her and communicate with her.

[1:13:04] Being page at the library cuz she said she can order, she doesn't know if she's supposed to order things, she told me, or are you ordering the things and sending to her at the library.

[1:13:12] But I think it should be a collaboration since she's going to be housing these things.

[1:13:17] And and also one thing that I mentioned to the guys down here when we before we started was that at the library right now on the website, you can't find the library of things. It's unfortunate, but they don't have a tab yet, they're redoing their website.

[1:13:30] Presently, you have to go under the tab for books, log into say your account for getting books with the library card.

[1:13:37] And then remove the word books and put in Library of Things, which is very clunky. No one's going to really find that in any way.

[1:13:44] So they are revamping and they're getting a new um host for the library um website.

[1:13:51] And when that's put together, they will have a separate tab right at the top of the the toolbar of the website saying Library of Things.

[1:13:57] So hopefully that will be coming in a few months.

[1:14:00] Um, and by then hopefully we'll have some tools there at the library that people can borrow.

[1:14:07] So that was the item on the Library of Things.

[1:14:10] I do have two points on this lending agreement.

[1:14:13] That is was done by the attorneys for the town.

[1:14:15] So we had no play in this.

[1:14:17] Agreed, but I do have some feedback on it that I'd like to see added.

[1:14:20] Yeah. Uh, the first one is they will not lend it to a third party.

[1:14:26] So, at the moment it says I'm checking the item on my own account, but it doesn't mention you're not to lend it to anyone.

[1:14:32] But that that is when we have no play in this policy.

[1:14:36] This is directly from the library and the town, um attorney.

[1:14:40] I mean, you can say something to them, but we don't have authority over their policies.

[1:14:45] Yeah. I know we don't have authority.

[1:14:47] Um, but if we are giving money to rent equipment, then we should have a say in what this looks like.

[1:14:54] And to cover us from a liability standpoint.

[1:14:56] But as I said, I talked to them about this.

[1:14:58] And the attorney because I because we did talk about this.

[1:15:01] The only thing you could do is the affordable housing trust would have to actually hold the equipment and lend it.

[1:15:06] That's right.

[1:15:06] We're not. Well, it's not our lit.

[1:15:08] Because it did come up. Jason mentioned it before

[1:15:11] and we talked about this, it went through the attorneys.

[1:15:14] Okay. All right, they're satisfied with it, but I I

[1:15:17] No, I hear what. We all had some comments on it, no question,

[1:15:20] but I asked about that specifically,

[1:15:22] brought that to them and they said the attorneys have gone over that.

[1:15:25] Okay.

[1:15:26] And the liability of potential liability

[1:15:28] and they were satisfied with what was put together.

[1:15:31] Maybe like in everything, maybe if things take place and

[1:15:34] as things evolve with having tools, maybe they'll modify it. I don't know.

[1:15:38] We'll see.

[1:15:40] But they had it in mind when they put it together.

[1:15:42] They knew we were going to be coming forth with tools.

[1:15:45] So it's not as though they weren't aware of that coming forward.

[1:15:48] You never know.

[1:15:49] Herman, they may add some things as anything things evolved.

[1:15:54] Um, any other questions about that before we move on to

[1:15:57] Richard's report or the treasure's report?

[1:16:00] go on to my report, there's two reports that I've given you.

[1:16:03] One has a draft word on my chicken scratch.

[1:16:06] [laughter] pull up that one.

[1:16:08] The other one is my final report for FY 26, uh, when the year is done.

[1:16:13] And just to wrap up the year,

[1:16:15] we end, we began the year with $306,666 of cash on hand.

[1:16:21] We received interest income of $17,138.48 for the year.

[1:16:28] We had one expenditure, just $310 we spent on marketing the tool

[1:16:32] program as I said to dot come in.

[1:16:34] So net, we ended the year with $323,494.47 in cash.

[1:16:40] So that closes out FY 26.

[1:16:44] Um, FY 27, I'm late, a little late in developing the budget

[1:16:47] because we haven't met since May.

[1:16:48] but, um, I want to try to have the budget by the next meeting

[1:16:51] have the budget done.

[1:16:53] And I just did a template.

[1:16:56] Uh, I started it, I put in uh, in the top of this, the the

[1:16:59] interesting come line.

[1:17:01] I will be adding to this the contribution from the CPC,

[1:17:05] which we have received. I'll talk about that in a moment.

[1:17:08] For now on expenditures, I have a $1,000 as a plug for our

[1:17:11] marketing expenses, Anna.

[1:17:15] Um, you can think about that a little bit.

[1:17:17] I have the home repair program in at $50,000. Uh,

[1:17:20] we only have one at the moment, but you know, maybe we'll get some more

[1:17:23] momentum on that for now.

[1:17:26] Since we didn't have the tools uh, expenditures in FY 26,

[1:17:30] I put in the $3,000 for tools in FY 27.

[1:17:35] So,

[1:17:36] What I think we need to to think about the the next meeting is

[1:17:39] what other types of programs maybe we want to try to budget into. Um,

[1:17:44] You obviously have a good deal of money, we should be trying to use it

[1:17:47] to benefit the community as best we can. So,

[1:17:50] I ask all of us to uh, try to think about some suggestions for our

[1:17:53] next meeting that we could budget in.

[1:17:59] Have we had any further conversations with Lake Harbor Light

[1:18:02] about what their wish list would be?

[1:18:07] Or possible collaboration opportunities, anything come up?

[1:18:12] I have not.

[1:18:14] I can certainly reach out to reconnect with them.

[1:18:17] But right now,

[1:18:22] Yeah, I have not had further conversation since our

[1:18:24] meeting with them.

[1:18:26] Yeah.

[1:18:30] The other thing you know, I I have not put anything on this

[1:18:32] and always confuses us.

[1:18:34] On the North Shore um, consortium the $20,000.

[1:18:40] I'd be putting that as potential income source?

[1:18:44] So, I would say yes, it's a potential income source.

[1:18:48] The caveat with that is that it has to be spent on a specific project.

[1:18:54] So the trust is basically the vehicle to move that funding.

[1:18:57] So we can't accept that as the trust, we could use it on a

[1:19:01] trust project.

[1:19:03] So potential income source, yes.

[1:19:06] We need to budget for a for a particular project in order

[1:19:08] to be able to include the income.

[1:19:10] So maybe we can add something thought about that over the next month.

[1:19:22] And that's all for me.

[1:19:25] Very good.

[1:19:26] Any other items that anyone has before we adjourn or

[1:19:28] and also, well our next meeting we do have scheduled for

[1:19:33] October 7th for this um, agenda.

[1:19:37] But does anyone have any other comments before we adjourn?

[1:19:42] No.

[1:19:44] Anna?

[1:19:45] No.

[1:19:48] So we adjourn the meeting.

[1:19:50] And thank you all for coming.

[1:19:51] Appreciate that, Costa.

[1:19:53] And I'm sorry, it's Bill is your what your first name?

[1:19:56] Anthony.

[1:19:57] Anthony. Sorry, Anthony.

[1:19:58] Oh, no.

[1:19:59] Thank you.

[1:19:59] I heard Marda, but then I didn't catch the Anthony.

[1:20:02] Thank you.

Affordable Housing Trust 09-02-2026

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