[6:29] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: --26th meeting of the Okaloosa County

[6:38] Board of County Commissioners.

[6:39] We welcome you here this morning.

[6:41] We have a full house, so we're glad to see that.

[6:44] As always, we're going to open with an invocation.

[6:47] We'll follow that with a pledge of Allegiance

[6:49] that will be led by the Crestview High School Junior

[6:51] ROTC.

[6:52] But invocation first, and I believe we

[6:54] have a chaplain with us today.

[6:58] Yes, sir.

[6:59] If you would open us up, we would really appreciate it.

[7:02] SPEAKER 1: Forward march.

[7:05] Colors halt. Left face.

[7:14] CHAPLAIN: Father, we come to you today,

[7:22] and I am thankful that I live in a place

[7:26] where I'm invited to come and pray before these meetings.

[7:29] Father, we call upon your name.

[7:32] We acknowledge you today.

[7:33] We acknowledge we need your help.

[7:35] We humble ourselves before you.

[7:38] And, Father, I pray that you would give these men and women

[7:43] wisdom as they lead and guide us as citizens as well

[7:46] as themselves.

[7:50] Father, I pray for their families,

[7:52] that you would bless them, protect them

[7:53] as they are in the public eye.

[7:55] Lord, today we pray for wisdom and we

[7:58] know that only true wisdom comes from you.

[8:00] So I pray that you would impart that wisdom to them today.

[8:05] Father, under the sound of my voice, each and every individual

[8:08] here today, Lord, we need you.

[8:10] Our town needs you.

[8:13] Our city needs you.

[8:14] Our country needs you.

[8:15] I pray for our president today, Lord,

[8:18] as he's making decisions with leaders that's

[8:20] affecting the entire world.

[8:23] And we know that you can help and you can guide us.

[8:27] So, Father, we love you today.

[8:29] We thank you today.

[8:30] I pray for those who may not know you today personally.

[8:33] Lord, I've not come here to offend anyone.

[8:36] I've come here to speak the name of Jesus.

[8:38] And I pray, Lord, you draw them close to you.

[8:40] For those of us who do know you, Father, we give you praise,

[8:44] we give you glory, we give you honor.

[8:45] May this meeting be done for your praise and your glory

[8:48] and honor.

[8:49] For all that we do today.

[8:50] Father, we praise you and thank you in Jesus' name.

[8:53] Amen.

[8:53] AUDIENCE: Amen.

[8:55] SPEAKER 1: Present arms.

[8:57] SPEAKER 2: Please join us in the Pledge.

[9:04] ALL: I pledge allegiance to the flag

[9:06] of the United States of America and to the Republic

[9:09] for which it stands.

[9:11] One nation under God, indivisible,

[9:12] with liberty and justice for all.

[9:16] SPEAKER 1: Forward arms.

[9:18] Right face.

[9:22] Forward March.

[9:34] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right, you may be seated.

[9:42] Thank you.

[9:43] I'm always impressed with our students

[9:46] here in Okaloosa County, how professional they are.

[9:49] And we see the success in our ROTC programs

[9:54] and see the future leaders, not just

[9:57] our future leaders, the people who are going

[10:00] to protect us in the future.

[10:01] And it's really encouraging to see that.

[10:02] So we really thank them for being here.

[10:05] Mr. Hofstad.

[10:05] The county administrator's update.

[10:08] JOHN HOFSTAD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman Commissioners.

[10:11] I just have a couple updates for you.

[10:13] First, I want to remind the board that our next meeting is

[10:16] a three-week gap.

[10:16] We're going to take off what was the spring break

[10:20] week this month.

[10:21] So our next meeting will be the 24th of March in Shalimar.

[10:25] I just want to remind the board of the jetBlue inaugural flight

[10:29] this Thursday.

[10:30] So I hope all of you can make that.

[10:32] And then lastly, I would request,

[10:33] Mr. Chairman, that we pull item 2.

[10:36] We need to do some additional--

[10:38] item 2 on consent agenda, excuse me.

[10:40] We need to do an additional staff analysis on that.

[10:44] So we'll bring that item back.

[10:45] And that's all I have, sir.

[10:47] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[10:48] Very good.

[10:48] Ms. Hoshihara, county attorney's update.

[10:49] MS. HOSHIHARA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[10:54] I have no updates this morning.

[10:56] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[10:57] Clerk of court, Mr. Embry.

[10:59] BRAD EMBRY: Nothing from the clerk's office.

[11:00] Thank you very much.

[11:02] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[11:03] Thank you.

[11:03] All right, that brings us to public comments.

[11:06] Now, as always, we've got three minutes

[11:08] reserved for each speaker.

[11:10] And that is in-- that's going to be enforced because we're

[11:14] trying to get through each speaker

[11:17] and have everyone have an opportunity to be heard.

[11:19] But there is a second opportunity

[11:22] at the end of the meeting to be heard as well.

[11:25] So if you don't speak during the first session,

[11:27] you can speak at the end.

[11:29] If you speak at the first session,

[11:30] you can also speak again at the end.

[11:31] That's perfectly OK.

[11:32] If you are here on a public hearing item,

[11:36] and we only have one, which is the surtax,

[11:39] you won't be called during this session.

[11:42] You'll be called during the public hearing for that item.

[11:45] Otherwise, as we go through items along the agenda,

[11:48] you've got to make your comments either at the beginning

[11:53] or the end.

[11:53] So I think I've got the surtax public hearing cards properly

[11:56] flagged.

[12:00] But if I call your name and you're here for that one,

[12:04] just let me know and we'll defer your time.

[12:05] Also, if you're here and you're actually only wanting

[12:07] to speak at the end but you've turned in a card,

[12:11] just let me know that, we'll also defer you to the end.

[12:13] Be happy to do that.

[12:14] All right.

[12:15] Our first speaker is Mayor Mark Franks

[12:18] from the town of Shalimar.

[12:25] MARK FRANKS: Can you hear me?

[12:33] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: You're on.

[12:34] MARK FRANKS: All right.

[12:34] Good morning, Chairman and County commissioners.

[12:35] I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak today.

[12:39] As mayor of the town of Shalimar,

[12:40] I am here in strong support of the purchase and sale

[12:43] agreement for the acquisition of the 1.7 acre

[12:45] Waterfront property in Shalimar.

[12:47] This is more than a land acquisition.

[12:50] It is a once in a generation opportunity

[12:53] to preserve open space and ensure

[12:55] that this property is accessible to the public for decades

[12:58] to come.

[12:58] Waterfront land is finite.

[13:00] Once it is developed privately, we rarely

[13:02] get a chance to reclaim it for community use.

[13:05] By partnering together, we share the cost.

[13:07] The funding for this acquisition and park development

[13:11] would come from the County, the town of Shalimar

[13:13] and state legislative appropriations.

[13:14] An interlocal agreement following the purchase

[13:17] would reflect fiscal prudence, collaboration, and a shared

[13:20] vision for smart growth.

[13:22] We can create a thoughtfully designed park

[13:25] that supports recreation, environmental stewardship,

[13:27] and economic vitality.

[13:30] Parks increase property values.

[13:32] They attract visitors and improve quality of life.

[13:35] They provide safe spaces for families,

[13:38] outdoor learning opportunities for children,

[13:40] and natural buffers that strengthen our resilience

[13:43] against storms and flooding.

[13:44] Most importantly, this is an investment in our residents.

[13:48] It sends a message that we share balanced growth, public access

[13:51] to our waterfront and leaving something better

[13:53] for the next generation.

[13:55] I respectfully ask for your support of this purchase

[13:58] and sale agreement, so that together, we

[13:59] can secure this property and transform it

[14:01] into a lasting community asset.

[14:03] I thank you for your time.

[14:06] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you, mayor.

[14:06] Our next speaker is John William Scott.

[14:18] JOHN SCOTT: Chairman commissioners.

[14:26] I'm John Scott.

[14:27] Nice to see you guys again.

[14:29] I wanted to provide an update on all my stuff.

[14:32] So over the last several years, I've

[14:35] been dealing with some issues in the County.

[14:38] Initially, of course, was the wrongful arrest

[14:41] where I was denied medical attention at the County jail,

[14:45] then the cover up by the Board of County Commissioners,

[14:48] then the third address in which Nolan Weeks was investigated

[14:51] and then resigned as a result of that investigation.

[14:54] So I've now been able to establish that

[14:58] under Sheriff Charlie Nix, Captain Robert Wagner, Captain

[15:02] Todd Watkins, Captain John merchant, Captain Michael

[15:06] Rader, Deputy Harold Dewitt, and Sergeant Robert Wagner--

[15:11] I'm sorry.

[15:16] Sergeant-- Sergeant-- oh, my God, there's just so many.

[15:18] All took part in a federal criminal conspiracy.

[15:24] And what I mean is they violated-- they

[15:27] committed federal felonies.

[15:28] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And, sir, pause--

[15:31] JOHN SCOTT: Please don't cut me off.

[15:33] I've got limited time.

[15:34] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: No, no.

[15:34] Pause it, Nick.

[15:34] I'm going to keep your time.

[15:36] Pause it.

[15:36] Put it back to two minutes, please.

[15:37] I just want to--

[15:39] I'll defer to the County attorney,

[15:40] but I want to make clear that you

[15:42] don't have a misconception about what the Sunshine Law provides

[15:45] because I want to make sure our citizens understand

[15:48] to protect you, OK?

[15:49] I don't think the Sunshine Law is a privileged exemption

[15:52] to potential defamation claims.

[15:56] That's my understanding.

[15:58] JOHN SCOTT: Oh, it's not defamation.

[16:00] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: So I just want to--

[16:01] I don't want you to think that we're providing--

[16:04] JOHN SCOTT: I have body cam footage.

[16:05] I have--

[16:06] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Hang on.

[16:07] Hang on.

[16:06] JOHN SCOTT: --your on records established.

[16:08] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Hang on, hang on.

[16:09] Don't overtalk me or I might have to cut you off.

[16:11] I haven't cut you off before, and I've listened to you.

[16:14] JOHN SCOTT: It's not defamation.

[16:15] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Stop, please.

[16:15] JOHN SCOTT: I haven't--

[16:16] I've been posting it.

[16:17] It's not defamation, sir.

[16:18] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: I'm going to give you

[16:20] your full two minutes because I'm not going to take your time.

[16:24] I was saying that simply because I

[16:25] don't want any member of the public

[16:27] to think that we are giving the appearance of a platform that

[16:30] provides a free opportunity to say anything

[16:33] you want without potential civil consequences outside

[16:36] of this arena.

[16:38] That's all.

[16:39] You're free to say what you like as long as non-threatening, all

[16:42] the standard rules, which you've never threatened anybody.

[16:47] And I understand that, and I'm not saying that.

[16:50] I just want to make sure that you didn't think that we were--

[16:52] JOHN SCOTT: Oh, no.

[16:52] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: --portraying this.

[16:53] JOHN SCOTT: I've been building evidence

[16:54] so I can make these forums legally

[16:56] and without facing consequence.

[16:57] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[16:59] Hang on.

[16:59] I'm going to give you your two minutes.

[17:01] But usually what I've found, because I've stood down

[17:03] there a lot, not in this room, but some other rooms

[17:06] in this building, and when they're talking up at the dais,

[17:09] the best thing down there is to stop talking.

[17:12] That's what's kept me in business for 20 years.

[17:15] So just wait.

[17:16] I'm going to give it to you, but I just

[17:19] want to confirm that because you said some things that

[17:20] made me concerned that you were believing that this

[17:23] was a free for all forum.

[17:25] You can say what you want, but don't--

[17:27] I just don't want there to be any misconception by the public

[17:30] that this provides some sort of an immunity forum for that.

[17:33] That's all.

[17:34] So you have your two minutes.

[17:38] [INAUDIBLE]

[17:38] JOHN SCOTT: So my issue is that I've

[17:42] brought this to the county's attention in 2022

[17:44] and is now 2026.

[17:46] I've asked for relief from the county attorney.

[17:49] I brought it to the county's attention.

[17:51] The county has done nothing to address the medical and neglect,

[17:54] the criminal operations of the county jail, the cover up

[17:57] of the medical neglect of the County jail.

[18:00] That's criminal operations of a county organization.

[18:02] That would be a RICO violation from 2022 to 2023,

[18:06] just from the evidence that I've gathered.

[18:10] So I'm not committing slander, defamation.

[18:12] This is just the evidence that I've gathered.

[18:17] I have body cam footage that confirms

[18:18] that these officers committed federal felonies, falsified

[18:20] arrest reports.

[18:23] And then I have letters from the sheriffs department supporting

[18:26] their actions.

[18:27] And then I have state attorneys that I've

[18:30] submitted the evidence to that said that no criminal activity

[18:33] occurred.

[18:33] So there's an established precedent in this county

[18:37] where the law enforcement are allowed

[18:39] to commit criminal activity, and then the county jail follows up

[18:43] on criminal activity.

[18:46] And then when it's brought to the county's attention,

[18:49] they take no action.

[18:50] Now, I've brought it to the county's attention over and over

[18:55] again, that I was denied medical attention at the county jail,

[18:58] and I was almost killed.

[18:59] And then I was told, the first time,

[19:02] that it would be addressed.

[19:04] And if I needed--

[19:05] and if I expected any relief, that I would

[19:07] need to file a federal lawsuit.

[19:08] The second time where I almost died,

[19:10] I was laughed at by Nathan Boyles,

[19:13] and then I had to address the board three times for you

[19:17] to investigate Nolan Weeks and then

[19:17] he resigned after he stated that the standard practice was

[19:23] to incarcerate people that were innocent.

[19:25] He said that at this podium in this room.

[19:29] So there's an obvious level of corruption operating

[19:33] in this county, and I would like it to be addressed.

[19:36] Thank you.

[19:37] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[19:43] Our next speaker is Michelle Hampster.

[19:49] If I said it wrong, I apologize.

[19:57] I don't have my glasses on.

[19:58] MICHELLE HARPSTER: Good morning, commissioners.

[19:59] Michelle Harpster, 1801 Harpster lane Baker, Florida.

[20:02] In late November, a stop work order

[20:05] was issued at the Buttonbush site

[20:07] for clearing the road and retention pond

[20:08] areas before a development order had been issued.

[20:11] In February, during mediation for that same development,

[20:14] I heard the statement that land can

[20:16] be cleared as long as it is done prior to applying

[20:19] for development order.

[20:19] Now we are being asked to memorialize that interpretation

[20:23] in a resolution, Today.

[20:26] The development order process exists

[20:28] to ensure impacts are evaluated before land is permanently

[20:31] altered.

[20:32] If clearing tied to subdivision infrastructure

[20:35] can occur before a DO is even applied for,

[20:38] the review process becomes reactive rather than preventive.

[20:40] If this resolution moves forward,

[20:44] I ask that the language at least be tightened to clearly state

[20:47] that subdivision related clearing cannot occur prior

[20:49] to development order approval.

[20:51] Clarity protects everyone, both property owners

[20:56] and the integrity of the development process.

[20:58] And if subdivision related clearing occur prematurely,

[21:01] there must be meaningful consequences.

[21:05] Penalties that function merely as a cost of doing business

[21:08] are not deterrents.

[21:10] For clarity, how will staff distinguish

[21:12] between routine clearing and clearing

[21:14] that is functionally the first phase of subdivision development

[21:17] when DO applications have yet to be submitted?

[21:20] The process matters.

[21:25] The sequencing matters.

[21:26] Please make sure the language reflects that clearly.

[21:28] Thank you.

[21:31] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Ma'am, and I'll

[21:32] use Chairman's prerogative as an opportunity

[21:34] to address this with you.

[21:36] First, staff has pulled it, I think,

[21:39] to take another look at tightening some of the language.

[21:42] MICHELLE HARPSTER: Perfect.

[21:42] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: You're not wrong.

[21:43] Clarity is the key to organized land development, right?

[21:46] MICHELLE HARPSTER: Mm-hmm.

[21:47] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: So removal of ambiguity, I

[21:49] think that's what this is designed to try and do.

[21:53] But I think staff has recognized with some of the comments

[21:56] that maybe there's even a more tightening that could be done.

[21:59] I think what you're saying-- and I'm only speaking for myself,

[22:02] as how I interpreted it.

[22:04] I think the risk you're talking about,

[22:06] of clearing for subdivisions without a permit

[22:08] is not what this was intended to do, at least in my perspective.

[22:13] I think it was intended to deal with lots that are not

[22:17] going to be further subdivided.

[22:18] And I think that's a big distinction.

[22:20] MICHELLE HARPSTER: And I understand

[22:21] that that could be the intentions,

[22:23] but I think we all are aware that there's

[22:25] a lot of manipulating and loopholes in interpreting--

[22:28] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: You're 100% right.

[22:30] I mean, I've heard from North end, I've heard from South end,

[22:33] we all have, we don't want. you know, clear

[22:36] cutting for new subdivisions.

[22:38] And I think what you're talking about makes a lot of sense.

[22:42] And this will give staff the opportunity to look at it

[22:45] and say, well, then maybe we say,

[22:46] there's some sort of a time period.

[22:48] If you're clearing it with--

[22:51] you can't subdivide for 18 months, or something

[22:54] to make sure it's not form over function.

[22:59] But I think the idea is it's a big distinction if you've

[23:03] got lot 12, block B and the--

[23:05] a subdivision that was recorded in 1955, and all you want to do

[23:12] is put a house on it.

[23:14] It's been in the record for 50 years.

[23:16] I think that's different than what you're

[23:17] talking about, where somebody's coming in and saying, hey,

[23:20] I want to create a new subdivision that's

[23:21] never existed before.

[23:22] MICHELLE HARPSTER: Yes.

[23:23] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: So I just want to make sure at least

[23:25] I'm telling you what my perspective is.

[23:26] I hear you.

[23:27] MICHELLE HARPSTER: OK.

[23:28] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And I feel like staff

[23:30] can help us get to a common goal that does both things.

[23:33] Doesn't overly restrict something that is already a lot,

[23:35] but also prevents that process from being abused.

[23:39] And I think, if I hear you right,

[23:42] that sounds like what you're asking.

[23:43] MICHELLE HARPSTER: Yeah, I appreciate that.

[23:44] And a stiff penalty if it's found-- if they try

[23:47] to work their way around it.

[23:50] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Well, I mean, I

[23:51] know what other jurisdictions do.

[23:51] Refusal to accept permits for a period of time,

[23:54] which stalls out projects.

[23:55] You can bake in different things within the law.

[23:57] And we'll turn to our attorney about how to do that.

[24:02] Obviously, it's a balancing test.

[24:03] Everything's a balancing test.

[24:04] But yes, I think your points are well taken,

[24:07] and I understand you speak for the sentiment of a lot of folks

[24:12] both on the North end and the South end about managed

[24:16] development if you're re subdividing and creating

[24:19] new communities that didn't exist.

[24:21] And I think this is designed to deal with communities

[24:25] that already exist.

[24:25] Some of which are more like an infill development.

[24:29] And I don't think that's what's going on in Baker.

[24:32] I think that's a different thing.

[24:33] So thanks for coming down here today.

[24:34] Sorry, I didn't mean to jump in.

[24:38] MICHELLE HARPSTER: It's OK.

[24:39] Thank you.

[24:38] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: But I wanted

[24:39] to clarify that because I thought

[24:40] you made some excellent points, and I wanted

[24:42] to make sure we got on the record, at least

[24:44] where I was thinking, we might be

[24:45] going when we bring this back.

[24:47] MICHELLE HARPSTER: OK.

[24:48] Appreciate it.

[24:47] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you.

[24:49] All right.

[24:53] Next speaker, Narissa Jenkins.

[24:55] NARISSA JENKINS: Good morning.

[25:00] Chairman and Commissioners, my name is Narissa Jenkins.

[25:02] I'm a North County resident up here in Crestview,

[25:05] and I'm also the CEO and founder of Healing Hoof Steps.

[25:07] For the last year and a half, myself and seven surrounding

[25:10] property owners have been terrorized by an individual's

[25:12] refusal to contain their roaming nuisance animals and livestock.

[25:16] According to their owner, the dog

[25:19] is a Belgian Malinois wolf mix who

[25:21] hunts with a German shepherd and a Catahoula.

[25:24] In addition to these large dogs, there's also a 1,300 pounds pig

[25:28] that escapes in roams onto private property.

[25:30] I've been chased by the dogs while on horseback

[25:34] on my own private property, and have

[25:36] had to resort to pushing the pig with a UTV

[25:38] to stop it from entering the Healing Hoof Steps property

[25:42] and disrupting client sessions.

[25:43] My personal 25 acres sits between the roaming animals

[25:47] property and Healing Hoof Steps, and in recent weeks,

[25:50] they've been coming increasingly closer,

[25:51] causing disruptions to business operations

[25:53] and the safety of the sensitive populations we've served.

[25:57] I've filed numerous affidavits and notified as many people

[26:00] as I can.

[26:01] The dogs were roaming as recent as 4:00 AM this morning.

[26:04] All of our surrounding property owners

[26:07] have sent numerous photos and videos to animal control.

[26:10] But on our third animal control officer,

[26:12] who, despite his best efforts, is still

[26:14] struggling to enforce anything beyond the numerous citations,

[26:16] the owners even said they'd rip up any citations.

[26:20] They told the animal control officer

[26:22] that we'll just rip them up.

[26:24] So this shows a blatant disregard

[26:25] for the enforcement of laws to protect community residents.

[26:28] It also shows that habitual offenders

[26:30] are aware that their penalties are minimal at best.

[26:33] A large dog trap was provided to me by animal control

[26:37] where I actually trapped the dog.

[26:39] However, the owners proceeded to send their daughter

[26:42] over the fence to trespass and release the dog before Animal

[26:45] Control could impound it.

[26:46] Healing Hoof Steps has experienced

[26:48] defamation, defamation per se, tortious interference

[26:50] with business relationships, civil conspiracy, trespass,

[26:53] nuisance, negligence, and intentional infliction

[26:56] of emotional distress from our attempts

[26:58] to contain these animals.

[27:01] Their civil ceasefire and desist has been

[27:03] served by our board attorney.

[27:05] So what I've learned throughout this process,

[27:07] animal control only has one large dog trap

[27:09] for the whole County.

[27:10] They have limited enforcement tools.

[27:12] When you call the Sheriff, the Sheriff

[27:14] says, we to call animal control.

[27:16] This is not an isolated problem.

[27:17] So many people reached out to me after the news story

[27:20] that we did.

[27:21] One family with 40 affidavits in the last five years, and it's

[27:24] still happening.

[27:25] Many of these older owners do not

[27:28] have the resources or the desire to engage

[27:30] with these habitual offenders for fear of retaliation,

[27:32] like I and Healing Hosts Steps have experienced

[27:34] from these individuals.

[27:35] There's new laws in place like the Pam Rock law,

[27:38] but where do we go from here?

[27:40] I'd like to propose an amendment to the ordinance,

[27:42] because as each of you know, a dog and a pig

[27:46] can't build their own pen.

[27:46] And animals get out, right?

[27:48] That happens.

[27:48] But maybe there's like a three-strike rule

[27:51] that we can do with animal control,

[27:53] and after that, that becomes a trespass

[27:55] where somebody that's responsible

[27:56] has to be held accountable and responsible within a 12 month

[28:00] period.

[28:01] And, Ms. Jenkins, I know your time is up.

[28:04] I think the board hears you.

[28:05] I think we've heard a lot of complaints along these lines

[28:09] over time.

[28:09] Mr. Maddox, will you raise your hand?

[28:11] This is the captain of the animal control SWAT team.

[28:16] So--

[28:18] [LAUGHTER]

[28:19] NARISSA JENKINS: I ought to be after all this.

[28:21] Let me just tell you.

[28:22] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: So I know you've

[28:23] been connected with Mr. Maddox.

[28:24] I suspect that there--

[28:26] is there a consensus of the board

[28:28] asking that Ms. Jenkins and Mr. Maddox work on this,

[28:31] bring us something back?

[28:32] Anybody object to that?

[28:34] So I think-- he knows the technical way more than we do.

[28:37] NARISSA JENKINS: Got it.

[28:41] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And he knows the enforcement side.

[28:43] And all the ACOs ultimately fall under his authority

[28:46] as the public safety-- the chief public safety officer

[28:49] in Okaloosa County.

[28:50] NARISSA JENKINS: OK.

[28:51] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: So, yeah, we hear you.

[28:53] We're here to help.

[28:54] All we can do is vote.

[28:56] He can do a whole lot more.

[28:59] So I'd start with Mr. Maddox.

[28:59] If that makes sense.

[29:01] NARISSA JENKINS: I've learned a lot in this.

[29:03] And if we can help everyone in the County

[29:05] solve this a little better, it would be best for everybody.

[29:07] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Oh, yes, improvements can be made.

[29:09] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: I know we're

[29:10] trying to get through a big crowd,

[29:11] but may I say something here?

[29:12] I wish we had a picture of the wolfhound and the pig.

[29:15] She showed it to me--

[29:17] NARISSA JENKINS: Oh, I have plenty.

[29:18] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: No, I wish we could put it up.

[29:20] NARISSA JENKINS: Oh.

[29:19] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: It is jaw dropping.

[29:20] I've never-- I didn't know pigs could get that big,

[29:23] and I grew up in a farming area.

[29:25] It's the biggest-- 1,300 pounds maybe, maybe bigger.

[29:26] I've never seen anything like it.

[29:29] It would scare me to death.

[29:31] And the wolfhound is a very scary thing.

[29:32] You've done a great job.

[29:34] Thanks for articulating this so well.

[29:35] We've got an issue and we know it.

[29:38] NARISSA JENKINS: Thank you.

[29:39] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Thank you.

[29:39] NARISSA JENKINS: Thank you.

[29:40] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Steve Perry.

[30:01] STEVE PERRY: Good morning, Commissioners.

[30:09] Glad to see you here again.

[30:11] This is my 15th time now speaking in front of the Board

[30:14] and the Tourism Development Council.

[30:15] I'm going to go back over a couple of items

[30:19] that were discussed back on September 2,

[30:19] when we were lucky enough to have a little bit of engagement

[30:23] with this board during public comment.

[30:24] During that public comment, my colleague, Mr. Ruby,

[30:27] was able to have a rather long engagement, and Commissioners

[30:30] Goodwin, Commissioner Cox and Commissioner Ketchel

[30:33] all brought up the issue of zinc chromate

[30:36] that I've been talking about for over a year now to this board.

[30:40] And during that lucky enough, fortunate dialogue,

[30:42] you guys all raised issues and said, we need to look at this.

[30:50] And basically it's been radio silence since that

[30:51] from the board.

[30:52] No, comment back except for when we come and speak to you.

[30:55] No reply, no nothing about that.

[30:57] Now, you may have done something behind the scenes

[31:00] and discussed amongst yourself about this.

[31:01] Commissioner Goodwin, you said, can't we do some testing?

[31:05] I think, Commissioner Cox, you mentioned this and everything,

[31:07] but six months now, and complete radio silence on this issue.

[31:10] During that meeting, also, Chairman Mixon specifically

[31:13] made comment three times to make this an agenda item.

[31:18] We sent a request in January, eight weeks ago

[31:21] to submit a video and request an agenda item.

[31:25] To this date, we have received no response, no reply,

[31:28] no acknowledgment of our communications to this board.

[31:30] Complete radio silence.

[31:31] With that said, again, we would like

[31:35] to request possible dialogue.

[31:37] I would love to be able to speak and sit down with you.

[31:42] I even have the specifications book, The Shift, 700 pages

[31:44] and I'm going to read some passages from it.

[31:47] It talks about zinc chromate to you.

[31:48] But we need to have some dialogue because it seems like

[31:51] and I apologize if it sounds like I'm being accusatory.

[31:54] It seems like you're ignoring this issue,

[31:57] and you've gone on public record saying, we should address this,

[32:00] we should look into it.

[32:01] But again, radio silence.

[32:02] As you guys all know, with the fact

[32:05] that we wanted to submit Mr. Todd Osborne's video, who

[32:08] is a professor with a PhD, we have not

[32:11] submitted it to you for the reason of no response

[32:14] from this board.

[32:16] As a result, we've gone public with it to media and everything.

[32:19] So it's out in the public domain.

[32:20] You can see it.

[32:21] I would still like to send it to you if the board or the County

[32:25] commissioners chair would-- or the people who would

[32:27] like to address that issue.

[32:29] So with that said, you all know Ms. Erin Brockovich

[32:32] has posted a Facebook page about this

[32:34] and raised the issue of zinc chromate,

[32:36] and especially hexavalent chromium.

[32:37] We all know who she is and what she was able to achieve

[32:42] to prevent and solve a problem that existed out in California

[32:43] back in the 1990s.

[32:46] And at that time, that was--

[32:48] it resulted in the largest class action

[32:50] lawsuit in the United States, and an awarded judgment

[32:52] of $333 million.

[32:53] With that all said, in the specification,

[32:57] and I'm going to run out of time,

[33:00] so I'll have to save it to the end of the thing,

[33:03] but I've got two other points I'd like to make

[33:04] and everything, so I will see you at the end of the meeting.

[33:07] Thank you for your time.

[33:07] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you.

[33:08] All right.

[33:11] Rob Valiton.

[33:13] ROB VALITON: Good morning.

[33:18] Thank you for your time.

[33:20] My name is Rob Valiton, I'm a member of the board of directors

[33:23] of the Holiday Isle Improvement Association in Destin,

[33:24] representing 1,900 properties in that residence.

[33:26] An email and letter was sent to Mr. Hofstad and Ms. Hoshihara

[33:31] yesterday.

[33:32] I'm sorry for mispronouncing that.

[33:33] From Leslie Sheakley of Hand Arendall Harrison and Sale,

[33:37] an attorney for the association.

[33:40] I want to read a portion of that letter

[33:42] here, as time will not allow me to read it in its entirety,

[33:45] and I will provide a full copy for your records,

[33:47] for your reading pleasure.

[33:47] It goes on to say, I write to address a comment made

[33:51] by Mr. Palmer at the end of the most recent County commission

[33:54] meeting, at which there were numerous resident comments made

[33:56] against the proposed conservation management

[33:57] plan for commercial activities on the newly acquired state land

[34:01] Mr. Palmer attempted to justify the county's proposed plan by,

[34:05] among other things, stating that Holiday Isle was already

[34:09] engaging in commercial activity with short-term rental of homes

[34:11] and condominium units.

[34:13] It's important to understand that Mr. Palmer's assumptions

[34:16] and assertions in that regard are incorrect

[34:18] under established Florida case law,

[34:20] Santa Monica Beach POA versus accord.

[34:22] In the Santa Monica case, the court

[34:26] held that the rental of homes does not

[34:28] transform the home's use from residential to

[34:29] either business or commercial.

[34:31] Thus, covenants, and restrictions which prohibit

[34:33] business operations such as those of the Holiday Isle

[34:36] Association cannot be used to prevent rentals of homes.

[34:39] There has been no waiver by the Holiday Isle Association

[34:43] of its right to enforce the business operation

[34:45] provisions of the PCNRs by reason

[34:47] of the short-term rentals.

[34:49] On the contrary, as one resident speaking at the meeting

[34:52] last week noted, Holiday Isle home owners

[34:54] are not permitted to have commercial or charitable use

[34:57] of their docks, nor is exemplified

[34:58] by a ceasefire and desist letter sent

[35:01] to a certain homeowner operating a car leasing and sales

[35:03] operation at their Holiday Isle home.

[35:04] Can residents engage in commercial activities?

[35:07] The commercial activity described in the county's draft

[35:10] conservation management plan would not

[35:12] receive the same treatment for exclusion

[35:14] from business activity prohibitions

[35:15] in covenants and restrictions.

[35:19] They clearly lack the requisite nexus to residential use,

[35:22] forming the basis for the rationale of the court

[35:25] and decisions like Santa Monica Beach.

[35:27] Accordingly, as noted in prior correspondence,

[35:29] business operations on the state land including but not limited

[35:33] to the rental of boat slips as a business or commercial activity,

[35:37] are prohibited under the holiday Isle PCNRs.

[35:40] Read on at your convenience as it

[35:44] goes on with other details supporting

[35:45] that conveyance of the property to the previous owner.

[35:47] Point Resort LLC was expressly made subject to the Holiday Isle

[35:51] PCNRs.

[35:52] We understand that the city and county

[35:55] are working to enter into an interlocal agreement, which

[35:57] we support.

[35:59] The Holiday Isle is a third party

[36:02] with a strong vested interest and legal standing

[36:03] in this property.

[36:05] Don't get us wrong, we welcome all residents of Okaloosa County

[36:08] and its visitors to come and enjoy

[36:10] the beauty of this property, but we

[36:12] will continue to oppose any agreement that

[36:14] includes commercial development of the property.

[36:16] Thank you for your time.

[36:20] If you have a letter--

[36:23] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: You can provide that to the clerk,

[36:24] if you would, and that will make it into the record.

[36:27] Thank you, sir.

[36:27] Molly Moore.

[36:34] MOLLY MOORE: Good morning.

[36:42] First time speakers, so thank you for your patience.

[36:44] I have ties to Destin in Holiday Isle since I

[36:47] was three years old, back here even Okaloosa County,

[36:50] going to lums, and going to the water slides that

[36:53] were full cement, if you recall any of those

[36:56] if you were children here as well.

[36:57] I hope you'll each have or will take the time to come personally

[37:01] see the area at the end of Holiday Isle

[37:02] and stand up for conservation.

[37:03] In addition to conservation, though, residents also

[37:06] have concerns with safety, security,

[37:08] and Destin's reputation, if this plan all goes South.

[37:11] As you may know, the residential area of Gulf Shaw Drive

[37:15] is a serene, well maintained two-lane road,

[37:17] sided with residential and HIIA landscaping.

[37:19] There's an active sidewalk with runners and walkers

[37:23] and bikers and dog walkers.

[37:25] There is limited area on each side for clearing

[37:28] a lane for emergency vehicles.

[37:30] We've always had visitors and the occasional need

[37:33] for fire trucks, the sheriffs, et cetera, but in the future,

[37:36] there will be a difference.

[37:37] The current traffic is primarily residents and Holiday Isle

[37:39] guests that have somewhere specific to go into park.

[37:42] Not day visitors who may be less likely to know how effectively

[37:46] to clear the road safely or think they

[37:48] can take their chances parking on a side road

[37:51] or in a neighborhood.

[37:52] We now typically don't have much night traffic,

[37:54] but with the future plan of overnight camping boaters,

[37:57] people are not going to stay on their boats.

[38:01] Automobile traffic on Holiday Isle

[38:02] may increase due to a greater need for rideshare companies.

[38:05] The amount of pedestrians will increase.

[38:07] There may be impatience and people speeding or running

[38:10] the limited stop signs.

[38:12] We have been told that one non-negotiable is free parking

[38:16] for Okaloosa County residents.

[38:17] The reality is that it will be tourist visitors who

[38:21] have driven in, staying at Highway 98

[38:23] or Harbor Boulevard, the off-beach properties, who

[38:25] will be securing the parking spaces early in the day.

[38:29] With limited parking spaces at the end of the point,

[38:32] drive-in visitors will not have a way

[38:34] to know that the parking is full.

[38:35] That will keep a steady stream of traffic,

[38:38] potentially through the day and the evening.

[38:40] Our Destin tourist population is heavily

[38:42] drive-in from neighboring states and counties.

[38:44] I hope you will think about the need

[38:48] and funding for a future of scheduled public transit,

[38:50] off-site or satellite parking, or also

[38:53] working with off-site hotels and motels, the non-holiday Isle

[38:56] properties to offer shuttles to minimize private cars on Holiday

[39:00] Isle.

[39:03] Also Emerald Coast Transit express shuttles

[39:05] from the Destin public parking lots, for example.

[39:08] Finally, I have safety concerns of people and families

[39:12] who think they are going to be swimming in the Gulf who are not

[39:16] understanding that they're actually swimming

[39:16] in a strong, active channel.

[39:19] I also have concerns with the additional harbor traffic

[39:22] of less experienced boaters or those unfamiliar to our harbor's

[39:25] fishing and water sport industries that

[39:27] will back up to this Rental Marina Boat campground.

[39:31] There may be more traffic in Destin

[39:34] than ever before and businesses, but let's not ruin

[39:36] the vision or our reputation as the world's luckiest fishing

[39:39] village.

[39:41] Thank you for your time.

[39:43] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you.

[39:44] [APPLAUSE]

[39:45] All right.

[39:46] Destin City Attorney, Kimberly Kopp.

[39:48] KIMBERLY KOPP: May I wait till the end, Mr. Chairman?

[39:52] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Absolutely.

[39:52] KIMBERLY KOPP: Thank you.

[39:53] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[39:54] Councilman Dewey Destin.

[39:56] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Chairman, we

[40:03] have to wish him a happy birthday.

[40:05] It's his birthday today.

[40:06] Sorry, I had to say that.

[40:07] [CHUCKLING]

[40:07] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Wow.

[40:08] [CHEERS, APPLAUSE]

[40:09] DEWEY DESTIN: Thank you very much.

[40:11] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Hang on, I think Commissioner Ketchel

[40:13] is going to sing.

[40:13] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Would you like me too?

[40:15] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Go ahead, councilman?

[40:17] DEWEY DESTIN: All right.

[40:18] I appreciate the opportunity to be before you today.

[40:20] And I want to celebrate the cooperation

[40:24] that we've been able to accomplish over the last five

[40:27] or six years.

[40:28] Together, we expanded the fed tax districts.

[40:30] Not an easy task, but we got it done.

[40:34] And I think everybody's happy with the outcome.

[40:35] We've purchased several beautiful pieces

[40:37] of beachfront property.

[40:39] We have had a pretty good run of working together.

[40:43] And that's what I urge the commission

[40:46] to do on this issue of the interlocal agreement.

[40:49] For an interlocal agreement to be effective,

[40:54] it has to be equal partners.

[40:58] We've sent you a draft.

[41:00] We've got no reply on that.

[41:02] I understand you have another draft,

[41:03] but we need to get together and figure out

[41:07] how we can work as partners.

[41:09] There are a lot of issues here.

[41:12] I've met with Mr. Palmer several times.

[41:13] And it appears the thrust from your side, at least so far,

[41:18] has been much more commercial activity than the city thinks

[41:20] is acceptable.

[41:22] We would like to tap it down and keep it conservation oriented

[41:26] and work toward that end.

[41:30] And the only way we're going to be

[41:32] able to do that in partnership is

[41:33] to have a interlocal in which we are equal partners.

[41:36] And I would urge you to move forward with that so that we

[41:41] can continue the cooperation we've had over the last five

[41:44] or six years and accomplish a lot of really good things.

[41:47] Thank you.

[41:48] [APPLAUSE]

[41:48] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you.

[41:50] All right.

[41:54] Councilman Jim Bagby.

[41:55] JIM BAGBY: Can Sandy go?

[41:58] She's got an appointment--

[41:59] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Sure.

[42:00] Councilwoman Trammell.

[42:01] SANDY TRAMMELL: Thank you.

[42:03] JIM BAGBY: Sure.

[42:04] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: [INAUDIBLE]

[42:05] SANDY TRAMMELL: [INAUDIBLE]

[42:07] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Actually, if you'll give it to the clerk.

[42:11] SANDY TRAMMELL: OK.

[42:12] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you.

[42:13] SANDY TRAMMELL: Could you just pass it down

[42:14] to the council [INAUDIBLE].

[42:15] Thank you.

[42:17] Good morning, commissioners.

[42:21] I'm Sandy Trammell, currently Destin City Council

[42:23] and a 65-plus-year resident of Okaloosa County.

[42:27] And now that Dewey's had his birthday today,

[42:31] where both the same age.

[42:32] [CHUCKLING]

[42:32] SANDY TRAMMELL: So we've been around for a long time.

[42:35] My husband and he played around Destin their whole lives.

[42:39] I'm here to share some thoughts with you

[42:43] on why the county and the city of Destin

[42:45] need an interlocal agreement, and why it's imperative

[42:47] that the city of Destin be included in that.

[42:50] I met with Commissioner Palmer last week,

[42:52] and he laid out his plan for the state's parcel, located

[42:55] adjacent to Noriega point in Destin.

[42:57] Although premature in the process of development,

[43:00] I appreciated the meeting.

[43:02] I've given you a drawing illustrating the 100-plus

[43:06] parking spaces outlined to me by Mr. Palmer,

[43:09] and he did ask for some suggestions,

[43:12] so I'm going to give you some today.

[43:15] First of all, I'd like you to make note of the fact

[43:19] that this particular map that I gave

[43:19] you was done by the owner of the property prior to the state's

[43:24] acquisition.

[43:27] So what he gave me was what the owner

[43:30] actually wanted on this particular property.

[43:33] As you can see, the parking illustrated in this drawing

[43:38] is massive.

[43:39] Do we need that much parking?

[43:42] It appears that the idea is to allow the public on city

[43:45] owned parcel as well.

[43:48] Clearly this illustrates a need for an interlocal agreement

[43:51] with the County and the city of Destin.

[43:55] Sustainability for both parcels has

[43:56] to be addressed within the interlocal.

[43:59] I encourage you to accept the version of the interlocal

[44:03] supplied by Destin, as we are the owner of the larger

[44:06] parcel partial affected.

[44:08] And that's illustrated in the second picture that I gave you.

[44:11] The note on the front was from Mr. Coffey, who

[44:16] stated that the partial was smaller,

[44:18] and obviously, that's water under the bridge.

[44:22] It was explained to me that the number of parking spaces

[44:27] was also needed for overnight parking for the docks.

[44:29] By overnighting vessels, you will

[44:31] need to have a pump out station with holding facilities

[44:34] for sewage and regular sewage truck visits

[44:36] to remove it from the holding tank.

[44:38] Destined Water Users does not take the concentrated sewage

[44:41] from holding tanks.

[44:43] DWU is Destin's water and sewer company

[44:45] and is independent of the city.

[44:48] Also, the parks close at dusk, and all of the overnight vessels

[44:52] would be unable to access the parking or the park area.

[44:56] I don't think this is going to be a draw for overnight vessels.

[45:01] If overnight vessels is the plan for the county to garner revenue

[45:04] to sustain this park, I will refer you

[45:06] to the overnight parking for the vessels

[45:09] adjacent to the old Elks Lodge on Okaloosa Island.

[45:11] This property was developed by the same owner

[45:14] that has developed this new state property.

[45:19] No one's parking yachts there.

[45:22] The harbor study already completed for Destin harbor

[45:26] stated that the overcrowding in the Destin harbor

[45:28] exists without these active docks.

[45:29] So I would encourage you to--

[45:33] I'm sorry. --encourage you to take into consideration

[45:35] the interlocal agreement and to pass it today, if you will.

[45:40] Thank you.

[45:42] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Ms. Tramell, thank you.

[45:44] COMMISSIONER PALMER: I know this is unusual

[45:45] and I normally would not respond in public comment,

[45:48] but I wanted to be very clear.

[45:50] The drawing that I gave you is exactly-- you're correct,

[45:53] it's the developer's previous drawing.

[45:54] What I had asked was that you guys-- and I handed

[45:59] that same drawing to the others that met with me,

[46:02] and what I ask is that is that you overlay that drawing.

[46:06] And just so that we know that what was previously approved,

[46:08] that's why we used that drawing versus just a blank sheet.

[46:11] What I had asked was that you guys overlay what you thought

[46:15] would be acceptable to your council on that,

[46:17] just so that we can see the difference between the two

[46:23] as we overlay them.

[46:24] So this parking was not what we had

[46:27] or what I would suggest at all.

[46:29] I think it's way-- it's far too much.

[46:31] What we're looking for is about 100 spaces.

[46:33] I think there's about 200, maybe 250 here.

[46:34] But so anyways, I just want to be clear about that.

[46:38] And yeah, I think that's all I had.

[46:40] Thank you.

[46:41] SANDY TRAMMELL: You told me one [INAUDIBLE],

[46:43] so that's why I was--

[46:43] COMMISSIONER PALMER: We had other drawings.

[46:45] Yeah, we had other drawings that were submitted.

[46:46] SANDY TRAMMELL: Yeah.

[46:47] COMMISSIONER PALMER: Thank you.

[46:47] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Councilman Bagby.

[46:51] JIM BAGBY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners.

[46:59] I appreciate the opportunity to be here,

[47:01] and I want to thank you for listening to us again

[47:04] and probably again and again and again.

[47:07] This is a conflict none of us really wants.

[47:10] I don't want it.

[47:14] You don't want it.

[47:14] The state doesn't even want us to have it.

[47:16] I want to thank Commissioner Palmer for meeting with us.

[47:19] I've met with him three or four or five times.

[47:22] I can't even remember how many.

[47:23] And in our last meeting, he gave me his two red lines,

[47:27] and I want to address those.

[47:28] He wants free parking for County residents.

[47:30] He talked about license plate reader installation.

[47:33] He talked about a sign out by Highway 98 that

[47:38] would tell people it's full, so people don't go down

[47:42] through the neighborhood.

[47:42] Completely agree with that approach.

[47:44] He talked about what in the military

[47:47] would call unity of command.

[47:49] He wanted one entity in charge.

[47:51] I don't have a problem with that as long as that one entity is

[47:57] the city of Destin.

[47:58] But I think you all would have a problem with that,

[48:01] and I understand.

[48:02] He said he wanted that because--

[48:04] and the example he gave was the Crystal Beach Park, --well,

[48:08] you all came in, quite honestly, at the latter stages

[48:12] of the Crystal Beach Park.

[48:14] It was already a park when you all came in

[48:18] and we collaborated together to work together on that park.

[48:20] We had unfortunately, some restrictions

[48:22] that were placed upon us by the people that helped us purchase

[48:27] the park originally.

[48:29] I think a better example would be Tarpon,

[48:32] because I know many of you were there

[48:34] less than three years ago when we tore down Dieter's hotel.

[48:38] And many of you were there too, include Commissioner Palmer,

[48:42] less than a year and a half ago when we actually broke ground.

[48:47] And if you go out there today, you'll

[48:50] see we're well under construction.

[48:50] He wanted unity of command because he

[48:53] was afraid it would take forever-- at least what

[48:56] he told me, --it would take forever

[48:58] to get this project completed.

[48:59] I would just say to you, we have proven, as Mr. Destin said,

[49:04] that we can work together, that we can be

[49:07] good partners with the county.

[49:08] And I would ask that we be good partners again.

[49:11] Ross Perot said, when someone offers you a deal,

[49:14] offer them the same deal and see if they take it or they like it.

[49:19] if you offered us or if we offered you

[49:23] the version of the interlocal that you're offering us,

[49:27] we would reject it immediately.

[49:30] And rightly so, you would reject it

[49:33] if we offered it to you, because that would just put us in charge

[49:37] and you wouldn't have a vote.

[49:39] And I know you would reject that.

[49:41] If you offered us the deal we've offered you,

[49:44] we would accept it immediately.

[49:46] Why?

[49:47] Because it's a collaborative partnership.

[49:48] I think we've been here today working humbly

[49:51] and want to work collaboratively.

[49:54] This is going to take forever.

[49:57] If you want to get this park built,

[49:59] you need to do it with us, not against us.

[50:02] Thank you.

[50:03] [APPLAUSE]

[50:03] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Did you want to say anything?

[50:07] I'll just take-- and I know we've got a few more

[50:10] Destin speakers and everybody will be recognized,

[50:11] but I just want to reiterate, I think what we're seeing now

[50:15] is actually the evolution of what councilman Braden said

[50:18] the last time.

[50:22] He said, it's probably going to be the cities

[50:25] version, the counties version, negotiation, and you

[50:28] land somewhere in the middle.

[50:31] I think that's kind of what he articulated,

[50:33] and that's usually how most deals go.

[50:34] As a practical matter, I'm happy to debate in this forum,

[50:38] as much as anybody wants to, but it's probably

[50:41] the least efficient way to get some

[50:44] of the nuts and bolts resolved.

[50:46] We can hit major policy things here,

[50:48] but it's hard to wordsmith from up here.

[50:52] The good Lord knows I've tried a number of times,

[50:55] and I've probably just about lost favor

[50:56] with all of my fellow council members when I start doing that.

[51:00] So my suggestion would be--

[51:02] and I'm just kind of taking a cue

[51:05] from what the board's already done at the administrator's

[51:11] suggestion, appointing a liaison,

[51:13] which you guys at the city of Destin

[51:16] have been able to meet with Commissioner Palmer

[51:18] and talk through some of the logistics about the park.

[51:22] I would suggest it might not be a bad idea--

[51:26] and the board's subject to say, no, we don't want to do that,

[51:30] but maybe you as the city have a lead person with your attorney,

[51:32] meet with our lead person with our attorney,

[51:38] and you all get into a conference room

[51:41] and work through some of the nuts and bolts,

[51:43] because I think this is probably the least effective forum

[51:46] to work through those detailed, granular language terms.

[51:47] But we can talk about broad policy, because I suspect--

[51:52] well, I heard it at the last meeting.

[51:54] I heard what everybody at the city of Destin said,

[51:57] I heard what the board said, and I

[51:58] don't think anybody said, hey, we don't

[52:00] want to work with our partner.

[52:02] It's just, what is this relationship going

[52:04] to actually look like?

[52:05] And that's the granular level we need to get to next.

[52:08] And I think if we could--

[52:10] that's the way I would approach it.

[52:12] I don't know how the rest of this board feels,

[52:14] but I'd love to see Commissioner Palmer,

[52:15] I'd love to see the city say, hey,

[52:17] we're going to send a delegate.

[52:18] Let's send a send a lawyer on each side and go work it out.

[52:22] I mean, that's what we do in business every day.

[52:24] Just a thought.

[52:25] Next speaker, Mayor Wagner.

[52:30] BOBBY WAGNER: All right.

[52:36] Good evening board.

[52:36] If the county receives any interest in this property,

[52:39] we are eager to collaborate.

[52:41] We deeply value the board's partnership,

[52:42] and we put forward--

[52:44] and because of that, we've put forward

[52:46] a city of Destin interlocal agreement

[52:47] as a solid starting point.

[52:49] To your position, Chairman, that signed and voted on document

[52:52] is our position.

[52:56] As a collective body of City of Destin,

[52:58] there is our starting point, there

[53:00] is our clear defining point.

[53:02] And with that, we keep continuing

[53:05] to ask for redlines repeatedly since January 22,

[53:07] without any revisions until now, we

[53:10] have this other alternate draft that has completely

[53:13] opposite language, that holds no substance at all,

[53:18] and, really, doesn't even create a starting point, just

[53:23] an alternative narrative.

[53:24] Either way, we're ready to sign.

[53:28] If you guys are either ready to sign in or need a red line

[53:32] to edit our interlocal agreement,

[53:32] we welcome that because that matter--

[53:34] that what matters most is that we leave here

[53:37] with a clear direction and a real path

[53:39] forward for how we work together.

[53:40] I'd like to address the two comments

[53:43] that Commissioner Palmer made at the last meeting after we left.

[53:45] First, the will of the people is the heart of good governance.

[53:49] The citizens who came to speak did

[53:52] so because they care deeply about their community

[53:54] and what happens at this park.

[53:56] I did not inflame or fabricate that concern.

[53:59] I simply helped organize it and provide

[54:01] a clear, appropriate platform for our residents to be heard.

[54:05] Their frustration and their questions are real,

[54:08] and we will be behind them and beside them

[54:11] every step of the way to make sure that their voice is

[54:15] heard through this discussion.

[54:15] Secondly, I respectfully disagree

[54:17] that our interlocal agreement process was unusual.

[54:20] The city has a clear process for outward facing

[54:24] partnerships and agreements.

[54:25] Just like you addressed, we wanted

[54:27] to make sure that the will of the Council and what we believe,

[54:31] the will of the people, reflected in that deal.

[54:32] So instead of a delegate and hearsay,

[54:34] we wanted to make sure that we brought to you something

[54:37] that this council could agree on and start on knowing that there

[54:40] would be edits coming forward.

[54:42] We seek a council approval first,

[54:44] so that we will see the will of our elected body

[54:48] is clear in writing that, and that the subject of-- so there's

[54:51] no confusion back and forth or hearsay through staff

[54:53] or an elected body official.

[54:56] That is exactly why, on January 22,

[54:58] we sent the city council's interlocal agreement

[55:00] to the county with full expectations

[55:02] that you would have edits, redlines and suggestions.

[55:05] We intended it to be a fundamental document,

[55:08] a clear starting point that reflects the true council

[55:12] intent so the collaboration can start with concrete

[55:14] and transparency at its heart.

[55:17] Since then, we have asked multiple times for--

[55:20] just as the city council files clear public process,

[55:24] we trust the county values that same transparency.

[55:26] In that spirit, we have one sincere question

[55:29] for the full board, because clarity

[55:31] matters when we are talking about a major public commitment

[55:34] and investment.

[55:35] At the previous meeting, Commissioner Palmer

[55:37] held up a letter that appeared to commit $5 million

[55:40] towards this project.

[55:41] Did the board fully intend and know

[55:44] of the level of commitment that were

[55:47] being created in that letter?

[55:49] We are simply asking for clarity so that everyone, the city,

[55:53] the county and the public understand

[55:55] what has been authorized and what has not been authorized

[55:59] by the county commissioners.

[56:00] We are ready to collaborate.

[56:02] We welcome the redline direction.

[56:04] If the commitment to transparency is real

[56:06] and the step-by-step process aimed

[56:09] is for truly a partnership, we can move forward

[56:13] in a way that reflects this body's eagerness

[56:16] to work together and the will of the people that we all serve.

[56:21] Thank you for your time.

[56:22] [APPLAUSE]

[56:21] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you.

[56:23] COMMISSIONER PALMER: Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry,

[56:30] I do just need to say one thing very quickly.

[56:34] Again, I know this is unusual.

[56:36] I don't normally respond in public comment,

[56:37] but as an elected official, I think I owe you that courtesy

[56:40] to be correct about that.

[56:43] So as far as the-- and I actually just need clarity

[56:46] here a little bit because the mayor just

[56:49] said that they sent us the interlocal agreement

[56:52] with the intent of having redlines back.

[56:57] However, when I saw the city council

[57:00] meeting in which that was introduced,

[57:04] it was followed immediately by a good cop, bad cop,

[57:07] I think is what was said.

[57:10] And it was followed immediately by a commitment

[57:12] to approve a resolution that would then,

[57:14] if it wasn't approved by us, then

[57:18] you guys, your city council, would then

[57:21] approve a resolution that would then go and petition

[57:23] the state for control of the property.

[57:25] So to me, I felt like it wasn't--

[57:27] the redline was not what was requested.

[57:30] However, I could be completely wrong about that.

[57:34] That's the understanding that I came away

[57:36] with when I saw the city council meeting,

[57:38] and then we read the interlocal agreement.

[57:39] BOBBY WAGNER: Last night's [INAUDIBLE].

[57:41] COMMISSIONER PALMER: No, no.

[57:41] This is when it was originally introduced.

[57:42] I didn't see the one last night, but I look forward

[57:45] to seeing you later.

[57:45] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And Mayor, did the city council vote

[57:49] last night to submit a resolution to the state?

[57:53] BOBBY WAGNER: No.

[57:53] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: No.

[57:54] OK.

[57:54] I hate to do this.

[57:56] And I think, like Commissioner Palmer says,

[57:57] we're reluctant to speak during public comment and respond,

[58:00] but when there's an opportunity to maybe clear an issue,

[58:04] sometimes it makes sense to do so.

[58:06] And I think that's exactly what the commissioner is doing.

[58:08] That's what I was doing earlier with some speakers.

[58:10] Commissioner Ketchel as well, because it was an opportunity

[58:12] to speak.

[58:12] And I see she wants to speak right now,

[58:14] so I'll let her do that before I do anything.

[58:17] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: I think, blessed are the peacemakers.

[58:18] We want to try a path forward.

[58:21] I don't think any of us enjoy what's happening here.

[58:24] What I'd like to say is, I really agree with the chairman

[58:28] that it would be great to get Commissioner

[58:31] Palmer, a representative of your choice that you all respect,

[58:34] somebody you respect, and your attorney's in a room

[58:38] and see if you can work something out

[58:40] that we could all live with.

[58:41] However, we got here, we got here.

[58:43] There's enough fingers pointing, blame going around.

[58:45] This is not what-- this is not our community.

[58:48] Our community has always gotten along,

[58:50] and I want to see that continue.

[58:54] This is a beautiful piece of property.

[58:55] Somebody suggested, I think it was Sandy, that I go out.

[58:59] I went out with and I visited.

[59:01] Oh, it's jaw droppingly, it's beautiful.

[59:02] And I agree with you, the channel

[59:04] frightens me for children.

[59:05] And I think of the little children out there.

[59:08] We need to do the right thing here.

[59:10] We've got an opportunity.

[59:11] We should look at it as an opportunity,

[59:13] not as let's fight each other and see who's

[59:15] going to get the money, OK?

[59:17] Let's make this a conservation easement.

[59:18] Let's make it something beautiful

[59:20] that we can all love, OK?

[59:22] That's where I'd like to see it go.

[59:25] Chairman, thank you for bringing that idea up.

[59:27] I think we should go forward with that.

[59:28] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Do we have a consensus

[59:30] to authorize sending Commissioner Palmer, Ms.

[59:31] Hoshihara or Ms. Parsons and perhaps

[59:35] if he wants a member of the administrative team

[59:40] as well to go and negotiate with the city?

[59:43] Do we have a consensus for that?

[59:46] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: No objections.

[59:46] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And no objection to that?

[59:48] OK, so that will go forward.

[59:49] JIM BAGBY: [INAUDIBLE]

[59:49] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Hang on, Commissioner--

[59:51] Councilman, I'll-- When Mr. Jones has time left,

[59:54] he may defer if somebody else wants to use it.

[59:59] But I just wanted to say, Mayor, I

[1:00:01] understand your city voted to send that,

[1:00:04] but I also understand how negotiations work,

[1:00:07] and so it certainly with me, it didn't offend me.

[1:00:11] I mean, if I'm making an offer on a piece of property

[1:00:14] for a client or something, we'll send

[1:00:15] a signed deal expecting that it's going

[1:00:17] to come back with some change.

[1:00:18] But you start by firing something real,

[1:00:20] and that's what y'all did.

[1:00:24] I think, Mayor, you accomplished exactly what your city

[1:00:26] council asked you to do.

[1:00:28] You got a genuine, substantive dialogue

[1:00:30] started with the county about an interlocal that was not actively

[1:00:34] in discussion happening and likely

[1:00:37] to ultimately probably come back to both boards for approval

[1:00:41] of a joint document.

[1:00:42] So at the end of the day, I think

[1:00:45] you did exactly what you were asked to do.

[1:00:48] And the way that you all approached it

[1:00:50] doesn't offend me at all.

[1:00:53] We need to have a discussion, and we're having it.

[1:00:56] And now we've got a format and a plan and we'll see,

[1:00:59] but your city may agree to that format

[1:01:02] and decide a representative, trust your attorney to go

[1:01:05] and negotiate on your behalf as well,

[1:01:08] and I think we're going to get somewhere.

[1:01:11] But anyway, I'm probably way off of Robert's Rules by now

[1:01:14] by a long shot.

[1:01:16] So I'll stop now.

[1:01:18] But I just wanted to say I think you

[1:01:21] did a good job for your city.

[1:01:23] We've still got some more work to do.

[1:01:25] We'll get there, I think.

[1:01:26] So, Mr. Jones, did you want to defer to Mr. Bagby?

[1:01:29] MR. JONES: [INAUDIBLE] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[1:01:34] Yes.

[1:01:41] JIM BAGBY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[1:01:43] Three quick points.

[1:01:44] Number one, we've already appointed Mr. Destin

[1:01:46] as our representative.

[1:01:48] Number 2, we already offered to meet.

[1:01:50] The difference was we wanted it in the sunshine

[1:01:54] and the county did not.

[1:01:56] We still want it in the sunshine.

[1:01:57] It ought to be in the sunshine.

[1:01:59] When we're talking about this parcel and the impact

[1:02:01] that it has on the citizens of Destin

[1:02:03] and the citizens of this county, it should be in the sunshine.

[1:02:06] It shouldn't be two, four people in some dark room,

[1:02:10] back room, cigar smoke, maybe a scotch or something,

[1:02:14] negotiating a--

[1:02:16] no, I'm sorry Mr. Destin is our representative, not me.

[1:02:21] Sorry.

[1:02:21] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: I was going to say--

[1:02:23] JIM BAGBY: Yeah.

[1:02:23] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: You'll be good.

[1:02:23] You're sending Dewey Destin.

[1:02:24] It will be above board.

[1:02:25] JIM BAGBY: Yeah, I know, it will be.

[1:02:27] So we asked that it be in the sunshine.

[1:02:29] And we agree with you.

[1:02:31] This is a perfect collaborative thing.

[1:02:32] We want to do it, but we ask that it be in sunshine.

[1:02:37] Thank you.

[1:02:38] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And everything

[1:02:39] will be in the sunshine, because any documents approved

[1:02:41] has to go before both boards, which

[1:02:43] require two public meetings with public comment.

[1:02:46] But just like with anything else,

[1:02:48] whether you're redoing a land development code

[1:02:51] or drafting a 40 page contract, you

[1:02:54] can't possibly work out the arbitration clause

[1:02:57] sitting at this dais.

[1:02:59] And is it going to be 150 or 148 parking spaces?

[1:03:03] That sort of thing, I think is where--

[1:03:06] that's the granular level I'm talking about.

[1:03:08] Not by any means suggesting that this board or your council

[1:03:11] would ever try to agree to things that the public would not

[1:03:16] be fully aware of and have the opportunity to speak on

[1:03:19] before it's adopted.

[1:03:19] JIM BAGBY: [INAUDIBLE] talk about that later.

[1:03:21] I apologize [INAUDIBLE].

[1:03:22] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Sorry.

[1:03:24] JIM BAGBY: --Mr. Palmer's comment about something I said.

[1:03:26] COMMISSIONER PALMER: Welcome to my struggles.

[1:03:28] JIM BAGBY: Yes.

[1:03:30] I was the one that said, hopefully

[1:03:32] they will accept this interlocal agreement.

[1:03:34] Seems fair to me.

[1:03:37] If they don't, then our other option is to go to the state

[1:03:41] and ask that the state appoint point us.

[1:03:42] I think that's fair.

[1:03:43] I don't even think we voted on that night.

[1:03:45] I said, but that's one of our options.

[1:03:47] That is always one of our options,

[1:03:48] is to go to the state, our legislative delegation,

[1:03:51] and ask either the cabinet or the legislature

[1:03:53] or DEP or somebody to reassign the manager because we

[1:03:57] don't even have a lease.

[1:04:01] There has been no manager assigned.

[1:04:02] So that's one of our options.

[1:04:04] I stand by my statement.

[1:04:05] It'll be one of our options until we

[1:04:07] get something that works out.

[1:04:08] Thank you.

[1:04:10] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[1:04:12] Mr. Fuller, you've waited patiently.

[1:04:15] KENNETH FULLER: Oh, yeah.

[1:04:19] My name is Kenneth Fuller, and I want to act like I'm important,

[1:04:29] talk about Destin stuff just for a tiny bit, then Mr. Palmer.

[1:04:36] There are two main ways the city power can be

[1:04:40] bypassed by state preemption.

[1:04:41] Is if the state of Florida, not the county,

[1:04:45] decides their project is a matter of state concern,

[1:04:47] it can sometimes override local zoning

[1:04:49] to where the state currently requires

[1:04:51] collaboration between the county and the city for Holiday Isle

[1:04:54] project.

[1:04:56] The state preemption is a legal doctrine

[1:05:00] that allowed the Florida legislature to override, limit,

[1:05:03] or completely eliminate the power of local government

[1:05:07] like the city of Destin or Okaloosa county, to pass laws,

[1:05:11] specify issues.

[1:05:12] So I don't have nothing to do with that.

[1:05:16] I just want to feel important.

[1:05:17] Now, Mr. Palmer--

[1:05:18] Oh, yeah Mr. Palmer, do you know Dewey Park at Destin

[1:05:26] and a restaurant guy who gave you $1,000?

[1:05:31] And you come off--

[1:05:36] I'm not going to cuss, but you come off as full of feces.

[1:05:40] Also, this is what your other job you are a liaison.

[1:05:45] I'm not good at this, but it means

[1:05:50] that while the board members are not paid a salary for the time,

[1:05:54] the county ensures they are not out of pocket

[1:05:58] for the cost of requirement to do their job.

[1:06:01] I was thinking I was talking about the TCD

[1:06:05] or whatever, you and a lady were talking the other time.

[1:06:07] And also your wife's birthday today.

[1:06:10] She was born March the 3, 1979.

[1:06:14] We are-- we did recon on you, that's why I know.

[1:06:19] I'm not-- I don't know her.

[1:06:21] I ain't never talked to her or even you.

[1:06:23] Also, I'm fixing to talk about us poor people

[1:06:26] stuff about the buses again.

[1:06:28] Well, I don't want the buses to be stopped running,

[1:06:31] and that $850,000, y'all need to pay it back because the guy

[1:06:34] y'all hired, y'all gave him a salary of 100 and some thousand

[1:06:39] dollars a year annually, and he resigned.

[1:06:42] And I don't know why he would want to resign

[1:06:46] making that much money.

[1:06:46] And so even though y'all put it in the airport department,

[1:06:50] but it seemed like y'all trying to just get rid of it when

[1:06:56] grants are given to y'all by the government and stuff.

[1:07:00] So it was y'all responsibility to make sure, really,

[1:07:05] the person committed fraud.

[1:07:08] But I guess it might be a friend of y'all, but he committed fraud

[1:07:12] when he got all that money.

[1:07:16] He knew what he was doing.

[1:07:17] He was in that bus stuff for 26 years.

[1:07:19] But that's it.

[1:07:20] That's all I had to say.

[1:07:22] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you.

[1:07:23] I have no other speaker cards other than for a public hearing.

[1:07:27] So if you're still wanting to speak on something, make sure

[1:07:31] you turn a card into to Nick at the back desk,

[1:07:35] and we'll have another opportunity,

[1:07:36] both at the public hearing item for the public hearing

[1:07:41] and then general comments at the end.

[1:07:42] All right.

[1:07:44] That closes our first public comment opportunity

[1:07:45] of the meeting.

[1:07:48] And so we'll turn to the consent agenda

[1:07:50] pursuant to the administrator's request.

[1:07:51] Item 2 is going to be taken off and reworked with staff

[1:07:56] based on some of the comments received.

[1:08:00] So we've got the consent agenda less Item 2.

[1:08:02] COMMISSIONER MIXON: I think the motion

[1:08:04] for approval minus 2 and 15.

[1:08:06] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And 15.

[1:08:08] Well, do we need--

[1:08:11] COMMISSIONER COX: So--

[1:08:12] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Yeah.

[1:08:16] COMMISSIONER COX: I think we're also going to pull 21.

[1:08:19] Yes, for previous consensus.

[1:08:20] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: So Commissioner Mixon,

[1:08:21] is that less 250 and 21 acceptable?

[1:08:24] COMMISSIONER MIXON: If that's what--

[1:08:26] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: If it's your motion,

[1:08:28] I just want to clarify.

[1:08:29] COMMISSIONER MIXON: That's fine.

[1:08:30] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: OK.

[1:08:31] So less 21, 2 and 15.

[1:08:33] Do we have a second?

[1:08:38] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: I'll second that.

[1:08:39] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: We have a second.

[1:08:40] Further discussion.

[1:08:41] Right.

[1:08:41] Those in favor, please signal by saying aye.

[1:08:44] SPEAKER 4: Aye.

[1:08:45] SPEAKER 5: Aye.

[1:08:45] SPEAKER 6: Aye.

[1:08:45] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And those opposed?

[1:08:46] All right, that passes unanimously.

[1:08:48] 2 is not up for discussion at this time.

[1:08:50] 15 Commissioner Mixon?

[1:08:52] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Yes, sir.

[1:08:57] COMMISSIONER PALMER: 15 is the approval

[1:09:05] to reimburse public safety expenditures funded

[1:09:06] by Tourism Development.

[1:09:08] We had taken the issue before and held--

[1:09:14] due to some questions, I got some answers,

[1:09:18] I just don't believe that the answers fall into relevancy

[1:09:23] of what should be spent.

[1:09:26] Just to remind you, commissioners,

[1:09:27] and I'm sure you've looked at this on page 94 in our packet.

[1:09:32] But beach safety, which is on the island.

[1:09:35] Salaries and wages 400 and-- well,

[1:09:38] let me give you the overall. $937,152 for lifeguards

[1:09:41] on the island.

[1:09:45] $1,447,647 for Destin, and then we reimbursed the Sheriff

[1:09:48] $856,680.

[1:09:51] When you get into page 94, which gives a little better breakdown,

[1:09:57] you'll see that the salaries in 24, $472.000.

[1:10:00] For beach safety, Destin Fire, just over a million.

[1:10:07] And the Sheriff, $236,000.

[1:10:09] As you move through that, some of the changes

[1:10:13] lead me to further questions, and so I

[1:10:16] thought this was the only fitting time that we

[1:10:19] have to be able to discuss it.

[1:10:22] When you look at--

[1:10:25] and I'm sure you looked at this already,

[1:10:28] but I'll show you what caught my eye starting

[1:10:31] from the dues and fees.

[1:10:33] The only one to pay that that we're reimbursing is Destin.

[1:10:38] The salaries, the difference is very large.

[1:10:41] The training education experience is a difference.

[1:10:44] There's several there that are much higher.

[1:10:49] One that's very concerning to me is H-2B visa fees and housing.

[1:10:53] After asking some questions, Destin

[1:10:59] hires mostly foreign workers for the beach

[1:11:02] and they pay Visa fees.

[1:11:05] They pay salaries, and they pay housing.

[1:11:08] The Sheriff and the County for Lifeguards hire local people.

[1:11:13] We don't pay them housing, we do pay a salary,

[1:11:19] and we don't pay Visa fees.

[1:11:23] I think there are some major concerns there

[1:11:25] with the fiscal stewardship in how

[1:11:29] we're approaching beach safety.

[1:11:32] I don't know if the problem is that we cannot hire local

[1:11:36] lifeguards, that we could not go and train and equip more people,

[1:11:41] which I see that as a failed excuse if that is the excuse,

[1:11:46] because I know we are training for job categories and fields

[1:11:49] where we want to see people grow into.

[1:11:52] My concern is I think this needs to have a better look into how

[1:11:58] we're spending this money.

[1:12:03] I understand now it's a reimbursement,

[1:12:05] and I'm sorry that this comes up as a reimbursement

[1:12:08] because that's after the fact.

[1:12:09] But I don't think we're too far in

[1:12:12] to look at even communication difference.

[1:12:15] 3,000 on both sides, the Sheriff and the County,

[1:12:18] and then they're almost at 20,000.

[1:12:21] There's a lot of differences that come out.

[1:12:24] Liability insurance, anyway.

[1:12:25] I believe we need to task staff with giving us

[1:12:29] a better idea of this, really, to see why

[1:12:32] the differences are so extreme.

[1:12:35] I'm very concerned about the overwhelming expenses of hiring

[1:12:38] foreign workers, and the thought that we have people that

[1:12:43] potentially could fit into those molds

[1:12:46] and be seasonal or year-round employees.

[1:12:49] There's several concerns in front.

[1:12:53] I thought it would be good to pull that

[1:12:58] so that we could have a moment to discuss it,

[1:12:59] because it's extremely alarming to me.

[1:13:00] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Commissioner,

[1:13:03] do you have any action or suggested direction

[1:13:06] to staff that you want to bring forward for the board

[1:13:13] to consider?

[1:13:13] COMMISSIONER MIXON: The only action I could grab hold of

[1:13:17] is that we tasked Mr. Maddox with telling us

[1:13:20] how much it would cost to operate that side of the beach

[1:13:24] if we were to extend our services,

[1:13:26] because there's a large breakdown there.

[1:13:28] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Would that be in lieu of approving this,

[1:13:33] or is a separate instruction?

[1:13:34] COMMISSIONER MIXON: So in approving this,

[1:13:36] it's money that they have operated with.

[1:13:38] I would love to hear some of the differences

[1:13:42] that I've voiced as to why those become

[1:13:44] critical to the operations within the contract

[1:13:46] that we have.

[1:13:47] We did not, that I know of, invite anyone here

[1:13:51] to speak to that today, and I would not

[1:13:54] want to blindside any of them with it.

[1:13:55] And so I'm definitely here at the will

[1:13:57] of my colleagues to see how we best move forward.

[1:14:01] I just wanted to be sure that we saw the differences here

[1:14:04] because they're very extreme.

[1:14:05] I think for the future, to be able to address it and see cost

[1:14:10] effectively, what it would take, I

[1:14:10] think to be able to talk to CareerSource

[1:14:12] and talk to some of our retiring military,

[1:14:15] some of our high schools to see how the job field looks

[1:14:18] with the overwhelming employment opportunities,

[1:14:19] I think some of those avenues are worth exploring

[1:14:24] to reimburse them.

[1:14:25] If it's money they've spent already within our contract,

[1:14:29] we have an obligation to do that.

[1:14:32] But we don't have an obligation to move forward

[1:14:34] in poor stewardship again.

[1:14:35] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: From a timing perspective,

[1:14:40] if more information is needed-- and I'm asking staff,

[1:14:44] if more information is needed to answer the questions that

[1:14:47] Commissioner Mixon is asking, do we have time under the current

[1:14:53] circumstances--

[1:14:56] In other words, is there a bill due that

[1:14:59] we agreed to pay that if we defer it to the March meeting

[1:15:02] we are late?

[1:15:02] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Yeah, we're under contract

[1:15:03] with service for this year.

[1:15:05] So these bills are part of an approved budget, an approved

[1:15:09] contract.

[1:15:09] So we are basically obligated, I believe, to pay these things.

[1:15:13] Now if you want to make a change going forward,

[1:15:17] I think it's more than appropriate to look at this.

[1:15:19] I think it's worth considering these options,

[1:15:21] but I don't know that it's behooves us to withhold payment

[1:15:24] based on our current contract.

[1:15:27] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And again, I'm

[1:15:28] not suggesting what the outcome of this activity

[1:15:31] is right this second, but just so I understand

[1:15:34] what the framework is.

[1:15:35] So there is a world where we would potentially approve this

[1:15:38] because it's already occurred and obligated,

[1:15:41] but also instruct staff to unpack this issue to the level

[1:15:45] that Commissioner Mixon is describing and have staff.

[1:15:48] And with the invitation of Destin Fire,

[1:15:51] if they'd like, come and present this in a comprehensive manner

[1:15:55] so that the board can really understand it.

[1:15:58] Is that a reasonable outcome that could happen?

[1:16:00] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Yeah, I think

[1:16:02] that would be more than fair and appropriate.

[1:16:04] And I mean, obviously, we've met with them many years

[1:16:07] over this particular issue.

[1:16:08] And I think they can try and address it,

[1:16:11] and you guys can go from there.

[1:16:14] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you.

[1:16:14] Sorry, Commissioner Mixon, I wasn't trying to jump in.

[1:16:17] You've got the microphone first, and then

[1:16:19] if you don't make action, obviously, we'll defer,

[1:16:21] but I just need to understand the framework we had.

[1:16:24] COMMISSIONER COX: [INAUDIBLE] permission.

[1:16:26] OK.

[1:16:28] So I understand us to be resolving

[1:16:30] to conditionally approve the expenditure for the funds that

[1:16:35] have already been spent per the B budget request, which

[1:16:40] was approved for last year, but for this, for revisions

[1:16:45] or to revisit this particular item during the budget process

[1:16:47] before approval moving forward.

[1:16:52] Is that correct?

[1:16:54] I mean--

[1:16:54] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: I don't think we have a motion yet,

[1:16:57] but I think that was--

[1:16:57] I think that is getting towards the heart of what the discussion

[1:17:00] is developing into.

[1:17:01] COMMISSIONER MIXON: It is.

[1:17:03] Mr. Chair, if I would have made a motion,

[1:17:05] this would not have been part of the item.

[1:17:07] We would have moved past it, and I

[1:17:08] would have had to try to walk on an item

[1:17:10] due to the inconsistencies.

[1:17:10] I think the item that we have can show us

[1:17:13] the inconsistencies, or at least the view of them

[1:17:16] to be very, very--

[1:17:18] scroll up just a touch Mr. Tomecek, if you would.

[1:17:21] When you get to the bottom line, that includes the new boat

[1:17:24] that we bought for the Sheriff's Office.

[1:17:29] So there's just a huge difference there,

[1:17:31] and I want to see what it is comparing services.

[1:17:34] Which could be seen as a totally separate issue,

[1:17:37] but this issue brings it to light.

[1:17:40] So with that, I will make the motion for the reimbursement

[1:17:43] as long as we have some consensus, potentially,

[1:17:45] to at least explore this in the future.

[1:17:48] COMMISSIONER COX: I'll second that.

[1:17:50] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Chairman, if I may,

[1:17:52] Mr. Maddox, can you give us any insight or do you

[1:17:55] feel like you need to have thought to go forward.

[1:17:57] PATRICK MADDOX: I try not to think too much,

[1:18:00] but I am familiar with this budget pretty well.

[1:18:02] And part of those differences are, obviously,

[1:18:04] the fact that we have 3 and 1/2 miles of beach and Destin has

[1:18:09] over 6 miles.

[1:18:09] Some of that comes with more territory, more people,

[1:18:12] more assets, more resources.

[1:18:14] Some of that is not visible to us, such as the H-2B

[1:18:17] portions of that and what portions of that

[1:18:20] go towards funding the visas, which we can see there

[1:18:23] and where that money for housing comes out

[1:18:25] of whether it's a co-mingling of those dollars and fire dollars

[1:18:28] are all from the fireside.

[1:18:29] We have asked for a further breakdown of that.

[1:18:31] We have not received it.

[1:18:32] So that being said, I think it will take a little bit of time

[1:18:36] to dive into that further.

[1:18:37] But that is the information we get from them

[1:18:39] in their annual report, which they're required to provide

[1:18:40] to us in the contract.

[1:18:42] So we can definitely dig down to the commissioner's level

[1:18:44] of detail and find exactly what he's looking for.

[1:18:47] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Thank you, Chief.

[1:18:49] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[1:18:50] So we have a motion to approve the reimbursements,

[1:18:53] coupled with a direction to staff

[1:18:54] to bring back a detailed analysis of this funding.

[1:18:58] And, Commissioner Mixon, is there a time

[1:19:01] that you were thinking that this would come back within?

[1:19:05] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Prior to the renewal.

[1:19:08] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And that's the second.

[1:19:11] All right, further discussion.

[1:19:13] Mr. Hofstad, did you have something you want to add?

[1:19:16] JOHN HOFSTAD: I was just saying thank you

[1:19:17] for that clarification.

[1:19:18] That gives us time to work through this process.

[1:19:20] We've got a budget policy workshop coming up next month,

[1:19:23] so hopefully, we can have some additional detail by then.

[1:19:27] PATRICK MADDOX: Yes, sir.

[1:19:28] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Very good.

[1:19:29] All right, those in favor, please signal by saying Aye.

[1:19:31] ALL: Aye.

[1:19:31] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And those opposed.

[1:19:32] All right, that passes unanimously.

[1:19:34] I look forward to seeing that report back, Mr. Maddox.

[1:19:37] Item 21.

[1:19:40] Do we need to address that board,

[1:19:42] or is that just pulled subject to our earlier consensus?

[1:19:44] All right.

[1:19:48] We can move on beyond the consent agenda.

[1:19:50] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Mr. Chairman, I

[1:19:51] think I've misunderstood you.

[1:19:54] I'm a touch confused, if I may.

[1:19:58] We're not the tenants at this time.

[1:20:02] I was pleased to hear Mr. Bagby say that because I

[1:20:06] think we've lost focus of that.

[1:20:13] Right now, we're in discussion of how

[1:20:17] do we pick a roommate on a house that we

[1:20:20] might be able to rent together.

[1:20:22] That's a little odd.

[1:20:24] I think that the conversations have started,

[1:20:26] but here's my concern on the commission side.

[1:20:31] And I didn't have this until the discussion

[1:20:34] today during public comment.

[1:20:36] Destin has approved an interlocal

[1:20:40] which we have not taken up.

[1:20:46] We have put forth an interlocal which now, it appears,

[1:20:51] we're deciding not to look into.

[1:20:53] But we're talking about coming to a negotiation where

[1:20:57] we meet in the middle.

[1:20:59] In the middle of what?

[1:21:01] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Are you looking for feedback

[1:21:04] or is that rhetorical?

[1:21:06] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: No, I'm looking for feedback.

[1:21:08] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: OK.

[1:21:08] I'll tell you my viewpoint on it.

[1:21:10] I think we had an offer and a counteroffer.

[1:21:12] That's what I-- I think those are the bookends right now.

[1:21:16] Our version, their version.

[1:21:16] And logic tells me the answer is somewhere in between them.

[1:21:20] COMMISSIONER MIXON: OK.

[1:21:22] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: That's my simplistic way of viewing it.

[1:21:24] COMMISSIONER MIXON: --bookend, do

[1:21:25] we need to prove consensually that we

[1:21:27] agree with that being a bookend or do we start with nothing?

[1:21:32] Because if we merely pull it, we have nothing to start with.

[1:21:36] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And I apologize.

[1:21:38] I thought when we had consensus earlier,

[1:21:41] maybe it was probably me in my mind

[1:21:43] saying this and not actually articulating it,

[1:21:45] and I apologize.

[1:21:46] I was thinking we were saying consensus,

[1:21:48] this is our starting position.

[1:21:50] We know their starting position.

[1:21:51] Please send our delegates and our lawyers

[1:21:53] and let's get this figured out.

[1:21:55] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: That's what I thought too.

[1:21:57] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: That's what I thought.

[1:21:58] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Was their starting position

[1:21:59] broad as an agenda item and voted on as a council?

[1:22:02] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: It was.

[1:22:04] COMMISSIONER MIXON: So potentially,

[1:22:05] our starting position should be 2.

[1:22:07] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Any objection

[1:22:08] to item 21 as presented by staff being our formal position

[1:22:11] for beginning of negotiation?

[1:22:15] COMMISSIONER PALMER: I don't think

[1:22:17] I have an objection to that.

[1:22:19] The reason I appreciate the construct

[1:22:21] that we are at now where we will have the county

[1:22:25] attorney and the city attorney as part of those discussions,

[1:22:29] I think that although we are using many of the same words,

[1:22:33] we have different definitions for those words.

[1:22:36] And I think that's part of what has caused us to be at impasse.

[1:22:40] I also believe-- and I say impasse,

[1:22:41] it's because our two interlocal agreements are so vastly

[1:22:44] different, they don't agree with one another

[1:22:47] whatsoever, except that we intend to work with the city

[1:22:52] and the cities is kind of us agreeing

[1:22:55] that we're responsible for this and they're

[1:23:00] in charge of our decisions or at least

[1:23:03] the approval of our decisions.

[1:23:06] So I think that the direction going forward with the attorneys

[1:23:09] present, I think we can at least start at some of those.

[1:23:15] When I discussed with the council members and the mayor--

[1:23:17] thank you all for meeting with me.

[1:23:20] I do appreciate that time.

[1:23:21] I enjoyed coloring with you, Mr. Mayor, specifically.

[1:23:23] Anyways, I think we've had some productive discussions.

[1:23:28] I think that when we start-- and the attorneys

[1:23:33] will help us to this out.

[1:23:37] When we start with one side wanting

[1:23:38] to remove the Marina and the other side saying,

[1:23:41] no, I think we've got to keep that.

[1:23:44] We got to figure out how to use that as per the State's

[1:23:47] cabinet's direction or at least their approved statements,

[1:23:49] there's not much further for us to go beyond that.

[1:23:57] And so that's one of the things.

[1:24:00] And then the other non-negotiable

[1:24:01] that I opened with-- and this is my non-negotiable,

[1:24:05] and of course, I'm one of five, but mine

[1:24:08] is that I do want free and sufficient parking for County

[1:24:11] residents.

[1:24:11] There has been some discussion that possibly we

[1:24:14] could open up all city parking to County residents.

[1:24:16] That would be amazing.

[1:24:18] I think that would be a win, and that

[1:24:20] would be something that we could add to this negotiation.

[1:24:22] I think that would be an excellent outcome.

[1:24:24] However, I think that the current direction that we

[1:24:26] have from this board to have myself,

[1:24:30] Ms. Hoshihara and the city appointee,

[1:24:33] I believe that's Mr. Destin and Ms. Kopp,

[1:24:37] I believe that we're at a good point

[1:24:41] where we can actually start those negotiations.

[1:24:42] Whether this is our beginning or we have no beginning,

[1:24:46] I think we start in the same place

[1:24:48] because theirs is so vastly different than ours.

[1:24:49] Thank you.

[1:24:51] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Commissioner Cox.

[1:24:54] COMMISSIONER COX: I have a little bit to say about this.

[1:24:59] I will say just, I mean, unilaterally,

[1:25:00] after having spoken to a couple of city councilmen

[1:25:04] from Destin and our county attorney

[1:25:06] and Mr. Hofstad about this, in a deeper dive about what

[1:25:11] our position, our collective position

[1:25:15] was in our own version of the interlocal agreement.

[1:25:18] Because frankly, I had not visited it before this.

[1:25:21] It was a little bit of a surprise, I think, to some of us

[1:25:26] that the county's position was as, I guess,

[1:25:27] maybe one sided as it appeared to be.

[1:25:33] That is not--

[1:25:36] I mean, item number 21, to request consideration

[1:25:40] of the interlocal agreement that we have as it occurs currently,

[1:25:44] I mean, those aren't my thoughts.

[1:25:48] That's not my position on this.

[1:25:50] I mean, I won't vote to support adopting

[1:25:53] that in the consent agenda as it is written currently.

[1:25:56] I expressly need more time to wrap my hands around it

[1:26:00] and work with or hear the concerns,

[1:26:03] at least from the citizens that are affected.

[1:26:06] And not just the Destin Citizens affected.

[1:26:08] I want to be candid.

[1:26:10] I spoke with Larry Jones, their city manager, last week

[1:26:12] and discussed at length that not--

[1:26:16] I do recognize that the city of Destin residents are comprised

[1:26:20] 14,000 citizens of 140,000 or so affected.

[1:26:22] And really, that's even a smaller footprint

[1:26:29] than what really is true, because we

[1:26:31] have so many visitors that will be affected by this too.

[1:26:33] I'm not sure that just one of our representatives

[1:26:35] and an attorney and one of your representatives and attorney

[1:26:39] is an adequate picture of who's going to be affected by this.

[1:26:42] I have to say that those 14,000 would be represented by fewer,

[1:26:45] probably, than the collective consortium that I would put

[1:26:48] together to have a workshop and workshop this out just

[1:26:51] because there are so many more affected than just those.

[1:26:55] But without having-- as having mulled this

[1:26:59] over for the amount of time that, frankly, the city

[1:27:03] of Destin has been given to look it over,

[1:27:05] the county's version that is, of an interlocal agreement,

[1:27:09] I would not be comfortable passing it at this juncture

[1:27:13] as it stands.

[1:27:16] I wouldn't even be comfortable saying that's our position

[1:27:18] because that's not my position.

[1:27:19] I haven't wrapped my hands around it enough to say, yes,

[1:27:22] this is where I stand on that.

[1:27:25] So that's the reason I requested that we pulled it.

[1:27:27] And I thought that we had sort of collectively

[1:27:29] gotten a consensus for working together before we agreed

[1:27:32] that we had a position on this.

[1:27:35] That's why I pulled it.

[1:27:37] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And I'm glad you clarified that.

[1:27:39] So we do not have consensus that that is our starting point.

[1:27:42] I think, as Commissioner Palmer mentioned,

[1:27:43] it feels like he can still meet, as we discussed,

[1:27:47] with or without a bookend on our side,

[1:27:50] but we can talk through that.

[1:27:54] Commissioner Ketchel has some comments,

[1:27:54] I think, to add to this as well.

[1:27:58] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: I do.

[1:27:58] This is really the first time we've really

[1:28:01] talked about all of this.

[1:28:02] And I agree with Commissioner Cox,

[1:28:04] this is not my starting point.

[1:28:07] These were not my words.

[1:28:08] I would not have written this document.

[1:28:10] So I have gone out and viewed it.

[1:28:12] It's a beautiful piece of property.

[1:28:13] It's also something that might disappear in a hurricane.

[1:28:16] It's a lot of dredge sand.

[1:28:19] So let's go forward without the interlocal

[1:28:22] and see what Mr. Palmer and Mr. Destin can get together.

[1:28:26] Commissioner Palmer and Councilman

[1:28:28] Destin and their attorneys, and see where we go from there.

[1:28:32] So certainly, like I said, really

[1:28:33] happy to hear that you feel the same way because we haven't had

[1:28:38] a chance to speak about that.

[1:28:39] COMMISSIONER PALMER: Mr. Chairman, I would like--

[1:28:41] so given that we don't have a lot of opportunity

[1:28:44] to discuss these things openly, I

[1:28:45] would like some opinions from the members of this board

[1:28:48] on one of the hanging points, I think,

[1:28:54] with Holiday Isle, the city.

[1:28:57] And when I talk about definitions

[1:29:00] of things, commercial activity, if I'm to give my opinion,

[1:29:04] I think that we need to figure out some way

[1:29:12] to generate some funds from this property

[1:29:14] in order to help with the maintenance

[1:29:16] and the upkeep of the property itself.

[1:29:18] And I would not have signed on to the previous letter

[1:29:21] agreeing with the state to manage this property if they did

[1:29:25] the acquisition and committing $5 million to that,

[1:29:28] I would not have voted for that if I had thought

[1:29:32] that was just a complete--

[1:29:32] just a donation to this property and there would be no--

[1:29:35] and then we would have a continued donation

[1:29:39] to this property, to upkeep this property over time

[1:29:42] without generating any funds from it.

[1:29:43] I think that we have the ability to do that with this Marina,

[1:29:47] but I would like some opinions from this board

[1:29:49] as to the Marina operation.

[1:29:52] Do you guys contemplate, do you envision

[1:29:55] seeing these slips as rentals?

[1:29:57] And if that's the case, then I think

[1:30:01] that helps us to at least define where I can start.

[1:30:03] Because when I'm talking with whether it be the city or some

[1:30:09] of the residents of Holiday Isle,

[1:30:10] that would be commercial activity

[1:30:14] that would be prohibited by their rules.

[1:30:16] I think that when I talk to other people in the county

[1:30:20] and even other residents in Destin,

[1:30:21] I think they think that's a great idea.

[1:30:23] So I think that I would like the opinion of this board on that as

[1:30:27] to whether number 1, do we define that as commercial?

[1:30:29] Number 2, is that something that this board

[1:30:32] would like me to pursue as at least a starting point?

[1:30:36] And I don't know that we can get to that right now,

[1:30:40] but that's one of my questions.

[1:30:42] And then, Yeah, we can't give away all control

[1:30:45] to another body.

[1:30:52] I don't know that either of our attorneys

[1:30:57] would advise us to do that, if we were

[1:30:59] responsible for something and just

[1:31:00] giving over that authority to the other body,

[1:31:03] I don't think that's appropriate.

[1:31:04] And so anyways, I would like some opinions

[1:31:06] from this board at this time.

[1:31:07] Ms. Hoshihara.

[1:31:07] LYNN HOSHIHARA: Thank you.

[1:31:08] If I may, as a point of clarification,

[1:31:11] so the interlocal agreement that was presented by the city

[1:31:14] focused more on the process of how the two parties would work

[1:31:18] together to come up with an agreed upon plan

[1:31:21] for future development of that park,

[1:31:24] but it doesn't get into any of the nuts and bolts of what's

[1:31:29] going to be allowed.

[1:31:29] The county's version did the same

[1:31:31] to say, yes, the parties will work together.

[1:31:34] Here's how-- here's what the County is

[1:31:36] willing to commit to do.

[1:31:38] Are we still talking about an interlocal just about

[1:31:41] the process, or are we talking about an interlocal that

[1:31:45] drills into the actual details of the development of the park?

[1:31:48] COMMISSIONER PALMER: I don't know.

[1:31:50] I don't think it's up to this board.

[1:31:52] I don't think that we're talking about developing the interlocal

[1:31:55] with those things, but I need to know as I'm speaking with them.

[1:31:59] I have to know.

[1:32:00] So if I'm saying, OK, yes, we will make sure

[1:32:03] that everything that we send forward

[1:32:04] has also the approval of the city.

[1:32:07] I also know that they define conservation differently

[1:32:11] than what the state defines it.

[1:32:13] I don't think those two things can work together

[1:32:16] if we agree with that process, and then

[1:32:18] we've tied ourselves to their approval,

[1:32:22] and yet when we're saying conservation,

[1:32:25] we also mean outdoor-based recreation versus just

[1:32:27] leave it alone, I think those are two separate things.

[1:32:34] And so I need some direction from this board

[1:32:36] as we go forward so that I can speak with them

[1:32:41] and negotiate in good faith, because at this point,

[1:32:42] we're saying the same words and we're meaning different things.

[1:32:46] And I'm saying we--

[1:32:47] I'm saying when I meet with city council member or the mayor

[1:32:50] on this.

[1:32:51] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: So I think what the commissioner is saying

[1:32:54] is he feels like that we're starting to have conversations

[1:32:57] where we're talking past each other,

[1:32:58] and I think he'd like to get past that

[1:33:04] so that we can actually talk towards a center point.

[1:33:06] So he's right.

[1:33:07] We can't go meet at Starbucks or some other place

[1:33:12] and talk to him about this.

[1:33:14] So a little out of the ordinary usual.

[1:33:16] This isn't a workshop, but it is on the agenda as an item,

[1:33:21] so it's definitely germane to what's been published.

[1:33:23] I would say this is probably the best time, if any,

[1:33:26] while the topic is hot to tell Commissioner Palmer what

[1:33:30] your thoughts are.

[1:33:31] I think Commissioner Cox started that process pretty well

[1:33:33] and may have a few more clarifications.

[1:33:35] I see your lights on

[1:33:37] COMMISSIONER COX: So--

[1:33:38] Sure.

[1:33:39] So I too am concerned about how we would fund or reclaim

[1:33:42] the $5 million that was committed to this property.

[1:33:46] And I am not fully aware of how the $5 million

[1:33:51] was committed to the property, to be

[1:33:54] completely honest with you.

[1:33:55] But beyond that,

[1:33:57] I think that the crux of the issue,

[1:34:02] trying to remediate or to earn back the $5,000--

[1:34:07] the $5 million is, while that's really important,

[1:34:12] I don't know that-- without presenting

[1:34:18] several options within collaboration

[1:34:20] with the city of Destin as part of the process of give and take

[1:34:25] and what the citizens want versus what our appetite is

[1:34:30] for recapturing those funds, I'm not sure

[1:34:32] that that decision should be made solely by this dais

[1:34:36] today without working on it any further and workshopping it out.

[1:34:39] I think that it's probably better for us

[1:34:43] to say this version, number 21, does not work today.

[1:34:45] Some version of that may work down the road,

[1:34:51] but that it needs more time.

[1:34:54] I know as a commissioner, I mean, with very little exposure,

[1:34:56] little time to wrap my arms around this particular version

[1:34:59] of this, I'm not comfortable passing any version of number 21

[1:35:02] today.

[1:35:04] COMMISSIONER PALMER: I agree.

[1:35:06] I think that we already agree on, at least,

[1:35:08] that portion of it.

[1:35:11] I think this, I'm fine without number 21 being a part of what

[1:35:14] we're talking about today.

[1:35:16] What I'm looking for specifically is--

[1:35:17] and it's not just the $5 million,

[1:35:21] it's the going forward upkeep and maintenance

[1:35:22] of this property.

[1:35:24] There's going to be costs that's associated with that,

[1:35:27] and we need to make sure that we handle that in order

[1:35:30] to be good stewards of--

[1:35:32] And I think you know, you agree, I'm not

[1:35:34] saying that you're saying anything differently,

[1:35:36] I'm just saying for clarity, that's

[1:35:38] my concern is, how do we-- are you guys in agreement

[1:35:41] that, no, we don't rent these slips?

[1:35:45] If that's the case, then I don't know

[1:35:48] other means other than maybe parking or something like that.

[1:35:52] But are we in agreement that there's no--

[1:35:55] that we're contemplating no commercial activity whatsoever

[1:35:58] on this park?

[1:36:00] I don't know that that's the will of this board.

[1:36:03] And then the other thing is there's really two main things

[1:36:07] that we have different definitions on.

[1:36:10] One is the definition of conservation as per the state's

[1:36:13] definition, it does include outdoor recreation,

[1:36:16] which the boating that-- anything that supports

[1:36:19] that would be allowed within that definition.

[1:36:23] However, again, the city's definition is vastly different.

[1:36:28] And then the definition of commercial activity,

[1:36:31] when I'm looking at slips in a Marina,

[1:36:34] if I'm defining commercial slips, that's

[1:36:38] slips that support fishing livery vessels, charters,

[1:36:41] dolphin cruises, that type of thing

[1:36:48] where what we're contemplating-- and somebody brought it

[1:36:50] up earlier about the weekly rentals

[1:36:55] are not commercial activity.

[1:36:57] I understand that.

[1:36:57] That's the point that I was making, is

[1:36:59] that this, as weekly rental slips for overnight stays,

[1:37:02] would be in a similar manner as that.

[1:37:05] And maybe it's prohibited already in your covenants.

[1:37:07] I don't know.

[1:37:08] But again, those are the types of things

[1:37:10] that I'm thinking about.

[1:37:11] And so as I'm looking at this, since we don't have

[1:37:14] another opportunity, I'm absolutely

[1:37:14] willing to put together a workshop in the future,

[1:37:17] but I'd like to get some steps along the way.

[1:37:21] I'd like to start on third base rather than starting

[1:37:24] and building the lineup.

[1:37:25] And so that's what I would like to do.

[1:37:28] COMMISSIONER COX: And it's interesting that you position it

[1:37:30] that way, as starting on third base,

[1:37:32] because that's how I feel about it too.

[1:37:34] I feel like they're asking us to--

[1:37:35] as five commissioners who represent a large body of people

[1:37:39] and not nearly as many people as will be affected by this parcel

[1:37:43] as a state purchase, asking us our five opinions

[1:37:45] of this so early in this game.

[1:37:49] We don't even have ownership of it yet, right?

[1:37:51] Asking our position to make a decision on the boat slips,

[1:37:55] the not boat slips, the commercial activity, the not

[1:37:59] commercial activity without having had any opportunity

[1:38:00] whatsoever to canvas those affected in our districts

[1:38:03] and outside of them, is too much for me.

[1:38:07] I'm a no to that.

[1:38:08] COMMISSIONER PALMER: That's a strong and a very fair point.

[1:38:11] And I think that the way that we got here was early on,

[1:38:15] engaging with the city on some of these discussions

[1:38:17] and then silence because we have nothing to take action on.

[1:38:22] We've taken no action.

[1:38:24] The management plan that was being drafted by staff and just

[1:38:27] through brainstorming and even meetings

[1:38:30] with the city, some of those ideas

[1:38:35] were captured in the management plan,

[1:38:37] but it wasn't ready for prime time,

[1:38:40] but it was public record requested and then posted

[1:38:42] publicly, and then discussed publicly in a town hall meeting.

[1:38:45] And so I agree with you, we're way

[1:38:48] premature on really all of this stuff.

[1:38:50] We have no legal standing on this property as of yet.

[1:38:53] We have the direction that we are anticipating,

[1:38:55] and I think that every action that we have taken up

[1:38:59] to this point has been in anticipation

[1:39:00] of that language that's in the Florida Cabinets documents.

[1:39:03] And I think with good intent and goodwill.

[1:39:07] And I think somehow we got sideways

[1:39:10] because there's a thought that there's

[1:39:12] backrooms, cigar smoke filled rooms that are meetings

[1:39:14] that are happening.

[1:39:17] And there just are not.

[1:39:19] We are very early in this process.

[1:39:21] But again, going forward, what I need from this board

[1:39:26] is, are we using the state's definition of conservation?

[1:39:28] I think the answer on state land is yes.

[1:39:33] And so we've got to talk with the city of Destin

[1:39:36] about what that means and what that means to our property.

[1:39:39] Are we contemplating approaching the state

[1:39:40] and asking them to tear down the Marina?

[1:39:43] I think my answer is no.

[1:39:45] I would not support that.

[1:39:46] And given that, if we're to operate the Marina

[1:39:49] as a public recreational Marina, what does that mean?

[1:39:51] What are the bounds within which we can work?

[1:39:54] And then how do I then negotiate with the city

[1:39:57] a positive outcome with that?

[1:40:00] Because I think right now I'm being asked to have these talks

[1:40:03] and have these negotiations, and I

[1:40:05] have no tools with which to do that because I

[1:40:08] don't understand--

[1:40:07] I don't know the opinion of this board,

[1:40:10] and I'm one of five votes, and I can bring you

[1:40:15] something that suggests a disaster because I'm not

[1:40:16] considering your opinions.

[1:40:17] And this is the only time that I have to collect those opinions.

[1:40:21] Unless you guys want to have 10-hour-long public workshop

[1:40:22] as an opening.

[1:40:26] I would rather-- again, I would rather

[1:40:28] have a pretty solid plan together to say, hey,

[1:40:30] I think this is acceptable.

[1:40:32] I think this is the will of the board,

[1:40:34] and I think this is in keeping with that,

[1:40:36] and we have worked with the public,

[1:40:38] and we have worked with the city,

[1:40:39] and we think we have a fairly mature product.

[1:40:41] We're on third base and we're ready to take this home.

[1:40:44] Let's have a public workshop.

[1:40:45] Let's get everybody's input, and then we can come one more time

[1:40:48] or however many more times it takes with this board

[1:40:50] and say, hey, here's our plan.

[1:40:52] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Chairman.

[1:40:54] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[1:40:55] Commissioner Ketchel then-- well, Commissioner Cox,

[1:40:57] were you complete?

[1:40:59] I know that was--

[1:41:01] COMMISSIONER COX: I'm good.

[1:41:02] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: OK.

[1:41:02] Commissioner Ketchel and Commissioner Mixon, and I'll

[1:41:04] defer my input to the end, obviously.

[1:41:08] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: The good news

[1:41:12] is we don't need any clearcutting out there.

[1:41:14] There's one lone little pine tree.

[1:41:15] [LAUGHTER]

[1:41:16] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: I did notice

[1:41:19] that when I walked out there.

[1:41:21] I don't really know how we got here, to be honest with you.

[1:41:24] There was a letter that went out.

[1:41:25] We voted to possibly oversee this, with a $5 million

[1:41:28] mention in it, which I found appalling.

[1:41:31] I'm just going to say that, I didn't vote on that $5 million.

[1:41:36] But what I'd like to see is this land conserved.

[1:41:39] It's beautiful and it's not going to last anyway.

[1:41:42] I'm sorry.

[1:41:44] The big hurricane that comes will take this piece of land

[1:41:47] out.

[1:41:48] So from my point of view, less is better,

[1:41:51] and I've talked with staff about that.

[1:41:53] I can see another set of bathrooms there.

[1:41:57] I'm not so excited about commercial undertaking.

[1:42:00] You brought up a very good point,

[1:42:02] the same guy that got us into this mess got the--

[1:42:05] has already got a Marina out there

[1:42:08] and there's no boats in it, on the sound.

[1:42:13] So I'd like to see less.

[1:42:15] If we do have commercial activity,

[1:42:17] perhaps a good place to put it would be

[1:42:21] to split anything with Destin.

[1:42:22] I'm just saying.

[1:42:23] I mean, why do we have to have it all?

[1:42:26] And maybe we don't need to manage this.

[1:42:29] Just have a beautiful park where people

[1:42:31] can go visit with bathrooms.

[1:42:32] It doesn't have to be parking.

[1:42:35] Yeah, a little bit of parking.

[1:42:37] Not a lot of parking.

[1:42:38] For me, 100 or less is fine.

[1:42:40] There were some excellent points brought up earlier

[1:42:43] by some of the folks that live out there.

[1:42:45] I can see why they feel that way.

[1:42:47] So those are my thoughts, but it's such a--

[1:42:49] I said this early on, we developed Women's Veterans Park.

[1:42:55] We don't need a concrete everything in our area.

[1:42:58] Old Florida is disappearing.

[1:43:00] Just those are my thoughts.

[1:43:03] So--

[1:43:03] [APPLAUSE]

[1:43:04] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Mr. Hofstad?

[1:43:10] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Sure.

[1:43:11] So, Mr. Palmer, I agree.

[1:43:13] Commercial activity needs to be defined.

[1:43:15] Sounds like there's a big difference.

[1:43:17] I'm not familiar with the idea of tearing out the Marina.

[1:43:21] That sounds very extreme.

[1:43:21] OK, good.

[1:43:24] So I'd love to hear how that goes, where that goes,

[1:43:27] why in the world you would tear it out.

[1:43:31] The $5 million was listed in the letter that we all approved.

[1:43:35] and it was unanimous when we took consensus for that.

[1:43:38] It did not define where money would go.

[1:43:41] It gave a no more than idea, if I recall right from the letter.

[1:43:46] I don't have it before me.

[1:43:50] But it was each one of us, but it

[1:43:52] did not-- of course, that would come back

[1:43:53] many more times for approval before any dollar was spent.

[1:43:56] That was just in showing interest to say,

[1:43:59] here's how we could partner.

[1:44:02] The management plan-- has there been a management plan

[1:44:07] submitted to the state?

[1:44:08] COMMISSIONER COX: [INAUDIBLE]

[1:44:11] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Is that the next step?

[1:44:13] Mr. Coffey?

[1:44:16] CRAIG COFFEY: The first step is a lease,

[1:44:19] and then that's followed by management.

[1:44:20] COMMISSIONER MIXON: OK.

[1:44:21] CRAIG COFFEY: Several leases actually.

[1:44:22] You got a submerged land lease and a regular lease

[1:44:24] of the property.

[1:44:25] Two different leases.

[1:44:25] COMMISSIONER MIXON: So that's the phase we're in now?

[1:44:28] CRAIG COFFEY: Yeah.

[1:44:29] We would wait on a lease from the state.

[1:44:31] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: You said something about that $5 million.

[1:44:37] We did not vote on that figure.

[1:44:39] We did not vote on that figure.

[1:44:40] We voted on managing.

[1:44:41] COMMISSIONER MIXON: That figure was written into the letter.

[1:44:43] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: But did we vote on that letter?

[1:44:45] Did we?

[1:44:45] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: We did.

[1:44:46] We all spoke--

[1:44:47] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Lynn, did we vote on the letter?

[1:44:49] On that January letter.

[1:44:51] We voted on management.

[1:44:53] Anyway.

[1:44:54] COMMISSIONER MIXON: We did.

[1:45:00] So we're in the stage of--

[1:45:03] at least from the state-- and then what's the next step?

[1:45:06] CRAIG COFFEY: Following a lease with the state,

[1:45:10] you would then enter into-- you would then

[1:45:12] develop a property management plan that you

[1:45:13] submit to the state.

[1:45:16] This is a four acre site, which is

[1:45:18] kind of an abbreviated process.

[1:45:19] You have to have a public hearing.

[1:45:21] You go through a process there and there's

[1:45:23] plenty of input in that process as you go.

[1:45:26] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Yes.

[1:45:26] And just prior to this, the property

[1:45:31] was slated to be 100% taken up with development.

[1:45:36] So now, I agree with you on parking.

[1:45:42] Parking is important.

[1:45:43] I didn't know until this week that it's

[1:45:46] $20 for four hours to park.

[1:45:51] So if I were to give a parameter, I would say,

[1:45:55] yes, citizens of Okaloosa County definitely

[1:45:56] should be able to park somewhere without having

[1:46:00] a exuberant, or at least a fee that matches someone's

[1:46:04] if there has to be a fee, but I'd rather there be no fee.

[1:46:10] I don't want to see this touch general revenue

[1:46:11] dollars by any means, so tourism would have to be the route,

[1:46:15] but the preference would be that this

[1:46:18] didn't become a yearly burden on the tourism fund either.

[1:46:20] So it's got to produce its own income to some extent.

[1:46:25] How can it do that?

[1:46:28] It has a Marina.

[1:46:28] If there's ways to be able to do something, sure.

[1:46:31] To turn that into a new side of the harbor

[1:46:34] would be interesting as far as the enterprise set.

[1:46:38] So there's much more studying that has to go into this.

[1:46:43] In my opinion, none of the government's

[1:46:44] terrible about studying everything,

[1:46:45] but in something like this, we want to see the impacts.

[1:46:49] We want to see--

[1:46:50] we know what it was intended for,

[1:46:52] at least when it was developed.

[1:46:54] So now how do we best use that to move forward?

[1:46:56] The site is beautiful and it helps the site next to it

[1:47:00] for preservation.

[1:47:01] I enjoy that, but what I noticed at the site next

[1:47:05] to it is the trails and the opportunities that it has,

[1:47:08] you can't pull your boat up anymore, so that's fun.

[1:47:12] But the trails and the opportunities

[1:47:14] that it has, to be able to enhance

[1:47:16] that, sure, to be able to have some more bathrooms, sure.

[1:47:19] To build Dollar General at the end, I think is a terrible idea.

[1:47:23] [CHUCKLING]

[1:47:23] COMMISSIONER MIXON: So, I mean, I agree, we're

[1:47:25] sending you to a meeting giving you nothing,

[1:47:28] but hopefully from this, you can pull some kind

[1:47:30] of negotiating points.

[1:47:33] I'm not sure--

[1:47:34] I don't know, like, I'm not sure why we're in a negotiation

[1:47:39] at all.

[1:47:40] A collaborative meeting would be great.

[1:47:42] Coming up with ideas of saying, tear out already,

[1:47:45] that's frightening to me.

[1:47:49] I wasn't up to date on that.

[1:47:53] COMMISSIONER PALMER: Just quickly,

[1:47:54] as I understand the negotiation that I'm to have,

[1:47:57] because you're right, just otherwise,

[1:47:58] we're just floating ideas.

[1:47:59] What my understanding is, how do we get to an interlocal?

[1:48:03] What is something that's acceptable to both bodies?

[1:48:05] That's my understanding of the direction of this board to me.

[1:48:09] And Ms. Hoshihara is to try to develop that.

[1:48:11] Am I understanding that correctly?

[1:48:13] If that's the case, then as we're talking about interlocal,

[1:48:16] I need to know what this board's definitions-- whose definitions

[1:48:21] this board wants me to use.

[1:48:25] Do they want me to use the state's definition,

[1:48:27] or do they want me to use the city's definition

[1:48:30] of conservation and commercial?

[1:48:31] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Outside of the--

[1:48:33] May I continue, sir?

[1:48:34] Outside of the state's purchase, not the county's-- thankfully,

[1:48:36] we're not buyer and seller, outside of the state's purchase,

[1:48:41] is there a conceptual plan outside of that the state has

[1:48:45] provided or that we've--

[1:48:46] COMMISSIONER PALMER: The only thing

[1:48:49] is that we are to operate the Marina

[1:48:52] as a public recreational Marina.

[1:48:53] COMMISSIONER MIXON: OK.

[1:48:53] OK, so we have--

[1:48:55] COMMISSIONER PALMER: Which in our definition,

[1:48:55] in the definition of what a public recreational Marina is,

[1:48:59] does include the ability to do short-term rentals that

[1:49:01] are open to the public.

[1:49:04] We can't do any rentals for slip rentals

[1:49:06] beyond 12 months that are automatically renewable.

[1:49:08] So it would have to be every time it comes up.

[1:49:14] And I'm not contemplating us doing long-term rentals,

[1:49:15] I'm just saying those are some of the things

[1:49:17] that-- the requirements.

[1:49:18] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Some of the definitions given.

[1:49:20] OK.

[1:49:20] Should we concern ourselves more with getting to a lease first?

[1:49:26] I think those are the elementary steps, that we

[1:49:34] try to get to at least first.

[1:49:36] With the city in partnership, how do we--

[1:49:38] COMMISSIONER PALMER: And Ms. Cox,

[1:49:39] I don't mean to keep skipping you,

[1:49:41] I completely agree with you that that's-- but where we are is

[1:49:44] that, we have an engaged public, we have an engaged city that I

[1:49:49] think that we owe at least some communication with,

[1:49:53] and that's what I've been trying to do.

[1:49:57] It's just I think that we feel like--

[1:49:58] I feel like, that we don't-- right now,

[1:50:02] we don't have any ability to satisfy some of the concerns

[1:50:08] because I don't what definition are we going to--

[1:50:13] Because I'm coming into these meetings with the understanding

[1:50:16] that it's a terrible idea to tear down the Marina.

[1:50:19] That was something that was floated by some residents in, I

[1:50:22] believe, the city.

[1:50:23] I don't know if there was a vote on that,

[1:50:26] but I think that was what the city had contemplated,

[1:50:27] was tearing down the Marina.

[1:50:30] So I think that's-- so I'm going into these meetings with two

[1:50:33] understandings, is that I want free and sufficient parking

[1:50:35] for county residents, because this is not a neighborhood park.

[1:50:38] This is a state park that's being managed by the county,

[1:50:43] and so I want free and sufficient parking

[1:50:45] for county residents, and the Marina

[1:50:46] must stay and must be operated as a public recreational Marina.

[1:50:52] If we operate it free of charge, the Marina itself,

[1:50:55] then that's a continuing and significant cost.

[1:50:58] I agree with you.

[1:51:00] I don't want to engage general funds.

[1:51:02] I don't want it to become a burden to TD dollars.

[1:51:06] We need this to feed itself.

[1:51:10] So those are the two things that I'm coming into these talks

[1:51:15] with, is that Marina is saying, we're going to operate it

[1:51:17] as a public recreational Marina, as per the Florida cabinet,

[1:51:19] and we need sufficient and free parking for county residents.

[1:51:23] Beyond that, I'm open.

[1:51:24] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Mr. Chairman,

[1:51:25] in the pursuit of a lease, which I guess

[1:51:28] that's the best way to say where we are, the pursuit of a lease,

[1:51:32] could we come up with a soft conceptual

[1:51:34] so we can see to scale what it would look

[1:51:36] like to have parking on there?

[1:51:37] The map that was passed out by the Councilwoman, boy,

[1:51:40] that's huge.

[1:51:41] If we could do something just that simple

[1:51:44] to see what that might for our simple minds and conservation

[1:51:47] to see what it gives us.

[1:51:49] But then, Commissioner Palmer, I think

[1:51:50] to be able to enhance the remainder of the point

[1:51:56] there that the County gave the city years ago,

[1:51:59] that the city is just wrapping up the development of,

[1:52:02] I think that would be tremendous to see

[1:52:04] how we can best enhance that.

[1:52:06] And then as we have our discussion

[1:52:09] about guarded beaches, we'll know more

[1:52:10] about having folks swim on that side.

[1:52:12] It's dangerous.

[1:52:14] COMMISSIONER PALMER: And we have-- to be clear,

[1:52:18] you guys know this, but we have engaged no professional services

[1:52:21] with this.

[1:52:21] So all the drawings were us with our crayons.

[1:52:23] The thing that was handed out by the Councilwoman, that

[1:52:28] was the developers.

[1:52:30] That was what was already approved by the city.

[1:52:33] So that was the developer's own drawings.

[1:52:36] And the intent of handing that to the city council

[1:52:39] members and Mayor as they visited,

[1:52:41] although the mayor brought his own much larger drawings,

[1:52:45] but the intent of having them work on those

[1:52:48] was specifically to understand how different what you're doing,

[1:52:53] what you're putting on that paper

[1:52:57] is from what was already approved,

[1:52:59] which is a much reduced encumbrance of that property

[1:53:02] from a development standpoint.

[1:53:04] And so we've got a couple of drawings

[1:53:07] that we've worked on that have been scanned into public records

[1:53:11] that you guys could take a look at and understand some

[1:53:16] of the things that we're talking about,

[1:53:19] but it's nothing, nothing-- nowhere close to what

[1:53:22] the Councilwoman handed out.

[1:53:23] And that was my fault. There was clearly

[1:53:26] a misunderstanding when I was speaking with her about that.

[1:53:29] Thank you.

[1:53:30] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[1:53:31] COMMISSIONER COX: So, Mr. Tomecek,

[1:53:33] I would be interested in pursuing a public opinion poll

[1:53:37] from our citizens about-- all of our citizens,

[1:53:44] about what the most beneficial use of this property,

[1:53:47] how they see this shaping--

[1:53:53] taking shape to best serve Okaloosa County citizens

[1:53:56] needs and the potential tourists affected.

[1:53:59] I mean, most of us have family members that

[1:54:04] come to visit from other areas.

[1:54:05] I think that would give at least a little bit of a sampling that

[1:54:09] would be beneficial.

[1:54:10] I mean, I know that Commissioner Mixon, Commissioner Ketchel, I

[1:54:15] myself have people who come to this area

[1:54:20] to visit that specific stretch.

[1:54:22] And so although we cannot canvas all of Kentucky,

[1:54:27] we can't canvas Illinois visitors,

[1:54:29] we can't canvas the Eastern seaboard visitors and what have

[1:54:32] you, I would feel more comfortable making a decision

[1:54:34] from behind this dais that affects our citizens as a whole,

[1:54:39] elected at large.

[1:54:41] I mean, our citizens are at large in this room.

[1:54:44] There's not one particular district represented more than

[1:54:47] the other, other than about this parcel.

[1:54:50] I would be interested, if we can get consensus on it to have you

[1:54:56] and your team conduct a study that

[1:55:02] asks for that opinion from the public.

[1:55:07] Is that something that we can agree on?

[1:55:10] [APPLAUSE]

[1:55:11] COMMISSIONER PALMER: I agree with that.

[1:55:15] I think it's great to hear an opinion of the public.

[1:55:19] I would like it to be a scientific poll,

[1:55:20] an online poll can obviously be, who's most concerned

[1:55:24] or who shares it the most?

[1:55:28] Where I'd like it to be whether it be a telephone,

[1:55:31] like an actual poll of the county residents,

[1:55:32] I think that would be a fantastic thing to do.

[1:55:36] COMMISSIONER MIXON: And Mr. Chair, can we just give that

[1:55:38] to our liaison for this and let he and Mr. Tomecek

[1:55:41] work out the parameters?

[1:55:44] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: I was just going to say,

[1:55:46] from experience, polling like that is expensive.

[1:55:48] So that seems to me that would be a TDD expense.

[1:55:52] It's not coming out of general fund with my vote.

[1:55:56] [CHUCKLING]

[1:55:56] SPEAKER 7: Yeah, I was just going

[1:55:58] to say that we had already set up an email account

[1:56:01] and we've received a lot of input from those folks,

[1:56:06] mostly from the folks on there.

[1:56:09] Directing it towards an audience outside of our area

[1:56:12] would be a little bit more difficult,

[1:56:14] and I believe it would take some money to do that.

[1:56:17] COMMISSIONER COX: Well, for clarification,

[1:56:19] I just want our citizens polled.

[1:56:21] I mean, I'm confident that our visitors, like our citizens

[1:56:24] visitors, will give feedback if needed or if asked,

[1:56:27] I mean, by our county residents.

[1:56:29] But.

[1:56:29] to be clear, for a point of clarification,

[1:56:32] I just want our citizens polled for this.

[1:56:34] SPEAKER 7: Yeah, I mean, we could certainly

[1:56:36] work up an additional poll in addition

[1:56:37] to what we've already done and all the input,

[1:56:40] if that's the will of the board.

[1:56:43] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: You can also

[1:56:44] put it out through the Chamber of Commerce.

[1:56:45] All four of them.

[1:56:46] That's a good way to get some input too.

[1:56:48] SPEAKER 7: Yeah, cool.

[1:56:50] I can work with Commissioner Palmer.

[1:56:52] We can come up with something.

[1:56:54] COMMISSIONER PALMER: [INAUDIBLE]

[1:56:54] [LAUGHTER]

[1:56:55] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[1:56:58] Other input for Commissioner Palmer

[1:57:00] before I take a stab at my thoughts?

[1:57:03] All right, so a lot of good discussion,

[1:57:06] a lot of good sunshine.

[1:57:09] It's warm.

[1:57:10] Might be getting a tan up here.

[1:57:12] I don't want to get a sunburn though.

[1:57:14] [CHUCKLES] So I'll just tell you,

[1:57:15] and certainly, I understand the request about a poll.

[1:57:21] Nothing wrong with that.

[1:57:22] Public input is good.

[1:57:24] I'll tell you, I've done polling the old fashioned way.

[1:57:26] I've walked and knocked doors in different neighborhoods,

[1:57:30] and I can get a pretty good sense of what

[1:57:33] people think by doing that.

[1:57:33] And I can get a pretty good sense

[1:57:36] by the communications I hear from people,

[1:57:38] by the communications I hear from the local residents, most

[1:57:42] local representatives, for instance,

[1:57:45] from cities and city council members.

[1:57:48] And I think I know where I am on it.

[1:57:53] And a little bit of this, we're starting

[1:57:56] to get into the granular and some of the questions

[1:57:59] about how do we define things.

[1:58:00] That's probably, to some extent, going

[1:58:03] to need to be a Lynn Hoshihara and Kim Kopp question and less

[1:58:07] about a policy decision, because now all of a sudden,

[1:58:10] you're starting to lawyer the thing.

[1:58:11] And I can see another lawyer in the room, Mr. Deitch,

[1:58:14] over here, shaking his head.

[1:58:15] He knows exactly what I'm talking about.

[1:58:17] And that can get-- it can get-- it would almost be impossible.

[1:58:21] We could end up being paralyzed in the process

[1:58:24] if we tried to do it up here.

[1:58:26] But we can certainly lay out vision and policy from up here.

[1:58:29] And I'll tell you what I would say.

[1:58:32] I'll start with the first thing.

[1:58:34] My position is, what this can never be is a land based

[1:58:38] Crab Island.

[1:58:40] If there are blow ups and bounce houses

[1:58:43] and rental skis running over people and all

[1:58:46] of that absolute nonsense, I will fight it

[1:58:49] with everything I've got.

[1:58:52] But I don't think that means a park can never generate income.

[1:58:56] I don't think those have to be mutually exclusive.

[1:59:00] I think what it means is, if you generate income from your park,

[1:59:05] or even if you don't, if you want a successful project,

[1:59:07] you need to have tight controls and tight enforcement.

[1:59:11] And so that's where I start.

[1:59:14] I feel that way about all our parks.

[1:59:18] I want them fenced, I want them monitored,

[1:59:19] and I want enforcement when people break the rules,

[1:59:22] because the people that aren't breaking the rules

[1:59:24] deserve to go there and enjoy it.

[1:59:26] But I don't mind charging for something

[1:59:29] that somebody is willing to pay for.

[1:59:31] In fact, when it comes to the parking,

[1:59:33] I'm not even at the position that I

[1:59:35] have to have free parking for county residents.

[1:59:37] I want county residents to be in parity with city residents.

[1:59:41] If city residents are free, I want County residents for free.

[1:59:45] If city residents get a discount,

[1:59:46] give county residents the same discount.

[1:59:48] If we don't want to give anybody a discount, that's fine.

[1:59:52] Have parity.

[1:59:53] As far as the Marina goes, I won't--

[1:59:58] I say won't, I don't foresee myself ever voting

[2:00:01] to tear down the Marina because I view that as economic waste.

[2:00:07] So I won't do that.

[2:00:09] But I've envisioned this.

[2:00:10] When I think of it, I think of it

[2:00:14] as, those are nothing more than RV pad

[2:00:16] spots at Topsail on the water.

[2:00:21] Topsail manages it with the state of Florida just fine.

[2:00:25] People pay, people go.

[2:00:27] Some people bring a $10,000 camper.

[2:00:29] Some people bring $1 million Prevost.

[2:00:32] Everybody can have a good time and enjoy the beauty

[2:00:36] that the good Lord has provided for us here in Okaloosa County

[2:00:39] and across the Emerald Coast.

[2:00:43] I think the idea of--

[2:00:45] that you have to have strict controls.

[2:00:47] You cannot have somebody parking out there for 12 months.

[2:00:50] You can't have somebody parking out there for 30 days.

[2:00:54] The last thing you want is what Fort Walton went through,

[2:00:57] and had all those junk sailboats with two stroke

[2:01:00] generators sitting on the front of it

[2:01:02] that they got at Harbor Freight, and they're out there

[2:01:04] drinking beer on the bow, yelling at people all day

[2:01:07] as they try to go to the park.

[2:01:09] We're not doing that.

[2:01:10] I will fight that with everything I've

[2:01:11] got, because that's a ridiculous waste of resources.

[2:01:14] But I don't actually think that there isn't something inherently

[2:01:18] bad about a family that wants to bring their cabin cruise

[2:01:23] chaparral and park over there for a weekend.

[2:01:27] I don't think then--

[2:01:29] I don't think that's necessarily bad.

[2:01:30] I don't think they're a per se bad element.

[2:01:34] So I'm not trying to exclude those kind of folks.

[2:01:38] But we make people-- we charge for it because it

[2:01:41] has to generate some income.

[2:01:43] I don't think it's a place to have fuel sales, personally.

[2:01:46] I don't want to get into the fuel sales stuff,

[2:01:50] because guess what?

[2:01:50] We have a problem, now all of a sudden the state looks at us.

[2:01:54] You had a leak, now you got DEP, you got EPA, and the state says,

[2:01:57] well, you're the tenant.

[2:01:58] You did it.

[2:01:59] You fixed it.

[2:01:59] You pay for it.

[2:02:00] I don't want to get into it.

[2:02:02] Go somewhere else.

[2:02:02] There's plenty of other places that'll sell fuel.

[2:02:04] We don't need to sell fuel.

[2:02:06] We don't necessarily need a pump out.

[2:02:08] I don't know if Destin's got a pump out boat,

[2:02:11] but a lot of places do, and people can

[2:02:12] pay for that if they want it.

[2:02:13] I think reasonable things is kind

[2:02:14] of like you do on a campsite.

[2:02:17] You need power, you need water.

[2:02:18] You need rules, you need trash collection.

[2:02:20] You need trash collection, whether people

[2:02:24] stay at the Marina or not, so that just makes sense.

[2:02:27] You're going to need some parking.

[2:02:28] It'd be ridiculous not to have parking.

[2:02:30] It would be ridiculous not to have sufficient parking.

[2:02:33] But how much is the right amount of parking?

[2:02:35] I don't know.

[2:02:36] That's not for us.

[2:02:37] It's certainly not for me.

[2:02:39] There's plenty of civil engineers

[2:02:41] out there that can give us great guidance

[2:02:44] on the correct balance of the number of parking spots we need,

[2:02:47] how to design them, and how to map it

[2:02:49] out so that it's not oversaturated,

[2:02:51] and it's not underserved.

[2:02:54] It's not a decision I need to make sitting here, or tell you,

[2:02:58] hey, I want 148--

[2:02:58] I'll need 148 parking spots.

[2:02:59] That's a waste of time.

[2:03:01] It could be wrong.

[2:03:02] It could be too many, it could be too little, I don't know.

[2:03:06] So those are some of the basics where I start from.

[2:03:09] Do I think there's anything wrong

[2:03:10] with having some type of retail sales there

[2:03:12] and even some food sales?

[2:03:18] No.

[2:03:19] No, they do it at--

[2:03:21] they do it at state parks all over the place.

[2:03:24] Federal parks.

[2:03:26] But does that mean we have food trucks and carnival concessions?

[2:03:29] No, but I mean, you can have a sundries store that's small,

[2:03:37] run by camp Rangers.

[2:03:40] I mean, I've been to many, many parks where they have it.

[2:03:44] They're not offensive.

[2:03:44] In fact, people enjoy it.

[2:03:46] It's not a t-shirt shop with offensive things hanging

[2:03:50] in the window.

[2:03:52] It's reasonable.

[2:03:53] And in fact, you can put things in there

[2:03:56] that are location specific.

[2:03:56] Stickers that say, I visited Destin, Florida.

[2:03:59] People like that kind of stuff.

[2:04:02] They'll stick it on their boat, go back wherever they came from

[2:04:05] and say, I can't wait to go back to Destin,

[2:04:07] because they had a good time with their kids

[2:04:08] and their family, and nobody got hurt.

[2:04:10] Nobody was acting crazy.

[2:04:12] Because we're going to have rules,

[2:04:16] I foresee, in place that won't allow it.

[2:04:18] We're not going to allow people to sit out there and blast music

[2:04:22] to the middle of the night, or even during the day.

[2:04:26] We can crack down on that kind of stuff

[2:04:28] because it will be things that we control.

[2:04:31] That's how I foresee it.

[2:04:33] But exactly what the--

[2:04:34] I can't sit right here and articulate for you

[2:04:38] what that rule book is going to look like,

[2:04:41] but I can tell you what I want to accomplish with it,

[2:04:43] and I know there are people that are a lot smarter than me

[2:04:46] that can help figure out what those rules are.

[2:04:47] But I think it's--

[2:04:48] so, I guess, really from a basic starting point,

[2:04:51] no, I don't want to tear down the Marina,

[2:04:54] and no, I don't want people living out there.

[2:04:55] Absolutely not.

[2:04:56] And do I think that there should be

[2:04:58] some reserve slips that are day, kind of transient use?

[2:05:01] Yeah, the city of Destin has some transient slips.

[2:05:05] And guess what?

[2:05:06] They are very nice to have.

[2:05:07] When I say transient, that's day use,

[2:05:13] I don't mean homeless people living there.

[2:05:15] But the Marina's there.

[2:05:19] It'd be-- I'm just too much of a conservative mind to go in there

[2:05:23] and rip the thing out.

[2:05:24] But I think if we manage it correctly,

[2:05:27] it won't be an offensive thing.

[2:05:28] As far as trying to have this treated as conservation,

[2:05:32] whether we use a city definition, the state

[2:05:36] definition, I say we use a practical definition.

[2:05:39] No, we don't want the whole thing paved.

[2:05:43] No, we don't want a saturation of vertical development.

[2:05:45] Does there need to be, probably, some landscaping and some ADA

[2:05:50] accommodations and things like that?

[2:05:52] Absolutely.

[2:05:53] Like I said, there's going to have to be some parking,

[2:05:56] but can you conserve or try to, actually,

[2:06:00] restore to some extent, some of the natural elements?

[2:06:05] Sure, I'd love to see that baked in.

[2:06:09] I don't think people are going to come

[2:06:12] to that facility for an entertainment venue.

[2:06:13] It's going to be like when they go to Alabama

[2:06:17] and want to go to Gulf State Park.

[2:06:19] They're enjoying the beauty of what's there.

[2:06:20] That's my vision of it.

[2:06:22] Is there are people that don't agree with me?

[2:06:24] Absolutely.

[2:06:24] I talk to people that don't agree with me every day.

[2:06:28] It starts when I first get out of bed in the morning.

[2:06:30] But that's kind of my take on it.

[2:06:32] I can't really go have coffee with Commissioner Palmer

[2:06:35] and tell him that.

[2:06:36] That's the level of input I think he needs.

[2:06:40] I don't think he needs me to tell him, well, take out

[2:06:43] pier one, but leave pier three.

[2:06:44] That's not for today.

[2:06:45] That's just where I am.

[2:06:48] Don't get into the fuel.

[2:06:50] Let's use pump out boats, don't run sewer lines

[2:06:54] because then they breach and then there's a spill

[2:06:58] and then it's all this stuff that's bad from it.

[2:07:00] You want to come, you need your boat pumped out,

[2:07:03] pay somebody to pump it out.

[2:07:05] That's fine.

[2:07:05] We'll give you water, we'll give you electricity,

[2:07:07] so you don't have a dead battery, because we definitely

[2:07:10] don't want boats sitting there that can't start and get out

[2:07:12] when they're supposed to go.

[2:07:12] We're going to need a park ranger.

[2:07:14] I think there needs to be a guard shack.

[2:07:16] I think there needs to be a guy or a gal

[2:07:20] out there with a uniform on that lets them know, I'm your park

[2:07:23] liaison, park ranger.

[2:07:23] It needs to be monitored.

[2:07:25] It needs to have security.

[2:07:26] It needs cameras.

[2:07:27] It is going to have to have some lighting.

[2:07:30] Obviously, it's got to be turtle friendly and respectful

[2:07:32] of the neighbors, but you've got to have

[2:07:34] some lighting for security because there will be times

[2:07:36] that people are out there after dark,

[2:07:38] especially if there's Marinas.

[2:07:39] But you're going to have rules.

[2:07:41] You're going to have rules in place.

[2:07:42] People break it, they're gone, they're banned.

[2:07:44] You got to have enforcement.

[2:07:45] Anyway, I don't know if that's helpful at all, Commissioner,

[2:07:48] but that's my perspective.

[2:07:49] COMMISSIONER PALMER: Yes, sir, I think it is.

[2:07:51] And I appreciate your input.

[2:07:52] And if anybody else has input, I would be excited to hear it.

[2:07:56] I think you're starting where I am starting.

[2:07:59] You didn't say anything that is like, oh, wow.

[2:08:03] I think we're kind on the same page here.

[2:08:05] And I think that's where we need to start with our discussions

[2:08:09] with the city.

[2:08:10] When we're talking about interlocal.

[2:08:11] Like, these are the things that we as a board are contemplating.

[2:08:14] I think you're absolutely right, we

[2:08:15] don't want it to be a crab Island.

[2:08:18] We don't want it to be, bounce houses and that sort of thing

[2:08:21] out there, but it's going to be--

[2:08:22] I just want a nice place for families to have a nice time.

[2:08:26] And I think you and I may disagree a little bit

[2:08:30] on the parking.

[2:08:30] I do like the idea of Crestview residents or Baker residents

[2:08:34] being able to come down there and park for free.

[2:08:39] I think that's important when we're spending money

[2:08:40] on behalf of the county.

[2:08:42] That's one thing that I--

[2:08:44] but I do, I appreciate your parity is a minimum, right?

[2:08:48] Parity is a minimum.

[2:08:49] But I do appreciate that input.

[2:08:51] And I think it gives us a place to start, where, at least,

[2:08:55] now the city understands where the board is coming from.

[2:08:57] And I think that helps our discussions.

[2:09:00] COMMISSIONER COX: I have just a point of clarity, if I may.

[2:09:05] And I know this is highly unusual,

[2:09:06] but if Councilman Bagby, can you answer this for me?

[2:09:08] Because I think I'm off of page or missing a page on the Marina.

[2:09:14] It sounds very much like the majority of your citizens

[2:09:18] do not want the Marina in place as it currently exists.

[2:09:22] However, the city of Destin is who

[2:09:27] approved the plans and the construction of the Marina

[2:09:30] as it currently exists.

[2:09:31] Is that correct?

[2:09:33] JIM BAGBY: Yes.

[2:09:34] COMMISSIONER COX: OK.

[2:09:34] So that's really already been approved and addressed.

[2:09:38] And that really shouldn't even be an issue for us,

[2:09:41] because we're--

[2:09:43] I mean, first of all, we don't have a lease,

[2:09:46] and secondly, we're not the landowners, right?

[2:09:47] The state owns the land, and they have not also

[2:09:50] suggested the removal of the Marina.

[2:09:52] JIM BAGBY: Yes, ma'am.

[2:09:54] And I like getting in trouble with the lawyer.

[2:09:56] So I'm going to preempt her, and then she's

[2:09:58] going to clean up my mess here.

[2:10:00] The docks were approved as part of the residential condominium

[2:10:02] approval.

[2:10:05] Without the docks-- or without the condominium,

[2:10:08] the docks would not exist.

[2:10:10] And they were tied to that as part of their development order

[2:10:14] so that when the docs are there-- and we did

[2:10:17] have a council member mentioned who's our representative.

[2:10:20] Well, we could just remove the docs

[2:10:23] and somebody would probably take the materials and do that.

[2:10:27] Council didn't vote on that.

[2:10:29] COMMISSIONER COX: OK.

[2:10:30] JIM BAGBY: OK.

[2:10:30] So this is kind of little red herring

[2:10:32] that keeps getting bounced around up here

[2:10:33] is, oh, Destin wants to remove the docs.

[2:10:36] No, but what we do realize, being a fishing community,

[2:10:39] is that the docs, as currently constructed,

[2:10:42] were built for 75 foot and larger boats

[2:10:44] because those were the people that

[2:10:48] were going to buy the multi-million dollar

[2:10:50] condominiums.

[2:10:50] Those docs will not fit the chaparral or the little 23 foot

[2:10:55] center console fishing boat that somebody brings over

[2:11:00] from Niceville or Poquito Bayou or whatever.

[2:11:03] And even your own staff has admitted,

[2:11:06] well, we'll just pay to retrofit those.

[2:11:09] OK, well, that's a cost that nobody's anticipated.

[2:11:12] Certainly, the state didn't anticipate that.

[2:11:14] But you're absolutely right, those docs

[2:11:17] were approved as part of the development order

[2:11:20] because they are allowed to be tied

[2:11:22] to the residential units that were in those condominiums.

[2:11:25] OK, you can get me out of trouble.

[2:11:29] COMMISSIONER COX: And that's correct--

[2:11:30] KIMBERLY KOPP: Thank you very much.

[2:11:30] Great job, council member Bagby.

[2:11:31] But I want to give you all just a little bit more

[2:11:35] of the legal background on the development orders

[2:11:36] and the city's position on that based on what

[2:11:38] I've heard from the council.

[2:11:40] First of all, the docs are a separate development order

[2:11:44] from the condo.

[2:11:47] And the condo was approved decades ago.

[2:11:49] I don't remember the exact year offhand.

[2:11:54] I want to say 2009.

[2:11:55] OK, decades ago.

[2:11:57] In that development order, docs were not contemplated.

[2:12:01] So when the prior property owner came in and applied

[2:12:06] for the second development order,

[2:12:09] the city was very clear about why that would be approved

[2:12:13] and what the limitations were going to be.

[2:12:17] And like I mentioned at a council meeting,

[2:12:20] that you may not have seen a lot of those

[2:12:22] conditions were not just in there, but bold caps.

[2:12:24] It was a main purpose of the city council

[2:12:26] to restrict the use of the docks.

[2:12:28] Keep in mind, the condo had the parking.

[2:12:32] The city owns in fee simple the right of way into Noriega point,

[2:12:37] and that was also going to serve the condominium.

[2:12:42] So we added public parking there.

[2:12:44] And I've not heard from anyone on this council

[2:12:47] that we would not want to treat the North and South with parity.

[2:12:51] So I don't think you're going to have a problem with that.

[2:12:54] I think if Destin residents are not

[2:12:55] charged for parking, what I've heard

[2:12:57] from my client in public meetings,

[2:12:59] is they're happy to have the North also not pay.

[2:13:03] But the development order also specifically says not only does

[2:13:08] it say no commercial use.

[2:13:11] That's not all it says.

[2:13:12] It says, no non-residential use.

[2:13:13] No non-residential use, no renting

[2:13:15] of the slips, no intensity and frequency

[2:13:18] of boats coming and going.

[2:13:21] That is not typical for a residential neighborhood.

[2:13:23] So I understand that it might not

[2:13:26] be feasible to take down the docks.

[2:13:30] And I think that was a little bit of an extreme example

[2:13:33] coming, because I know that we did have conversations

[2:13:35] with Commissioner Palmer where we talked about other options,

[2:13:39] such as public transient use of one of those docks,

[2:13:42] fishing off of one of those docks,

[2:13:45] and there are other ways to use them.

[2:13:48] So I don't want the city to be portrayed,

[2:13:50] and I'm not saying that was your intent, Commissioner Palmer,

[2:13:52] but I don't want the city to be portrayed as an extremist.

[2:13:55] Like, nothing can be done here and the docks

[2:13:58] must be torn down, because that's not the city's position.

[2:14:00] This interlocal that we are requesting--

[2:14:01] and thank you for the time, I'm going to wrap up,

[2:14:06] but this interlocal we are requesting would just be to say,

[2:14:08] we are all going to talk to each other.

[2:14:12] I think it's too early for the county

[2:14:14] to opine on the uses on the property,

[2:14:16] because we've never talked about it with the public, with you,

[2:14:20] with each other.

[2:14:21] I mean, I agreed with you, Commissioner Cox, on that.

[2:14:23] That was a really good point.

[2:14:26] So just getting back to the interlocal,

[2:14:27] ours just recognized, hey, the county doesn't have a lease yet,

[2:14:32] but when you do, we'd like to talk to you.

[2:14:34] And based on my conversations with the county attorney,

[2:14:36] I understand the sticking point to be that our version said

[2:14:40] both the city council in the BCC have

[2:14:44] to approve a management plan before it goes to the state.

[2:14:48] And I think the county's concern is

[2:14:50] that if the city never agrees to a plan,

[2:14:52] we're going to stop everything.

[2:14:54] But I believe that there is language

[2:14:56] that Lynn and I could work out to address that concern,

[2:14:59] whether we put time limits on it, a termination clause,

[2:15:02] we can work that out.

[2:15:03] So please, if we could just stick to the step that we're at

[2:15:07] and not go forward.

[2:15:09] And last comment.

[2:15:10] Just when we talk about all these other state parks

[2:15:13] and what's allowed in them and what's reasonable in them,

[2:15:16] keep in mind that this one is in a residential area

[2:15:19] next to a conservation park, and there's one road in and out,

[2:15:23] and all these people are affected.

[2:15:25] So, thank you for your time.

[2:15:27] Thank you, Councilor.

[2:15:28] [APPLAUSE]

[2:15:28] COMMISSIONER PALMER: Kim?

[2:15:30] Ms. Kopp?

[2:15:30] Ms Kopp?

[2:15:33] Ms. Kopp?

[2:15:34] Can I ask you, yeah, just a quick question,

[2:15:37] because you mentioned that non-residential use is

[2:15:39] what was prohibited.

[2:15:41] Are Airbnbs considered residential use,

[2:15:43] as per the city's Definitions?

[2:15:46] KIMBERLY KOPP: Airbnbs are considered residential.

[2:15:49] However, the development order for the condominium

[2:15:52] was predating the statute on short-term rentals,

[2:15:56] so it was able to prohibit that.

[2:15:59] COMMISSIONER PALMER: And again, I'm

[2:16:00] just working with what I have.

[2:16:01] KIMBERLY KOPP: Absolutely.

[2:16:01] COMMISSIONER PALMER: When I look at the definitions

[2:16:03] of these things, weekly short-term rentals

[2:16:05] are considered residential use, not commercial use.

[2:16:08] KIMBERLY KOPP: That's correct.

[2:16:10] COMMISSIONER PALMER: And so I'm just

[2:16:12] trying to understand where we're going to start.

[2:16:14] KIMBERLY KOPP: Agreed.

[2:16:15] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: I think we probably neared the point where

[2:16:18] we're not making any additional progress,

[2:16:19] but I think we made a ton of progress today.

[2:16:22] And if anybody wanted a workshop,

[2:16:23] we've just about had one, which is good, right?

[2:16:25] And so I'm glad we were able to have this discussion.

[2:16:29] This will not be the last discussion.

[2:16:31] There will be discussions that, like we mentioned,

[2:16:33] we'll have liaisons, we'll have lawyers,

[2:16:36] we'll have things brought back.

[2:16:38] We'll have it discussed.

[2:16:39] It'll probably be a couple rounds of that

[2:16:41] because nobody's ready to start building anything right now.

[2:16:43] Let's be clear.

[2:16:44] But I'll tell you, from my perspective,

[2:16:47] I know we can get into the codes and the legalese and all

[2:16:53] that stuff.

[2:16:55] And I'll just tell you where I start from.

[2:16:58] I don't start with those things as boundaries.

[2:17:00] Where I start is I'm looking at the piece of property,

[2:17:03] I need to figure out where, as a board,

[2:17:05] we can get from a policy perspective,

[2:17:07] and where the city council can get from policy perspective,

[2:17:10] and let's figure out what that looks like together.

[2:17:12] And then I'll leave it to the lawyers that do this kind of law

[2:17:16] to figure out how to document that correctly.

[2:17:17] Development orders about condos that

[2:17:20] aren't getting built, I mean, I think what happens

[2:17:23] is we could further go back towards paralysis

[2:17:25] if we're not careful.

[2:17:27] And I don't want to do that yet.

[2:17:29] I think we've got some momentum, we've

[2:17:30] got some things to talk about, and I feel like we'll get there.

[2:17:34] So we should probably move on.

[2:17:37] I don't think we need action at this point.

[2:17:39] I think we had a consensus and I think Commissioner Palmer asked

[2:17:43] a question.

[2:17:44] You got some answers.

[2:17:45] COMMISSIONER PALMER: I did.

[2:17:46] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And so a very good discussion.

[2:17:48] I also am going to put us into a 10 minute recess

[2:17:52] before we start the public hearing.

[2:17:55] That will allow folks to get a small break.

[2:17:59] And if you don't have any further business,

[2:18:02] obviously, you can go on about your day as well.

[2:18:05] So we're in a 10 minute recess.

[2:18:08] [GAVEL STRIKES]

[2:18:09] [CHATTER]

[2:29:16] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And our first item

[2:29:24] will be the public hearing regarding the surtax.

[2:29:27] Mr. Autrey, if you could present this item.

[2:29:31] Of course, this is a public hearing,

[2:29:33] so we will have an opportunity for public input.

[2:29:36] And because it's a hearing, the county attorney

[2:29:39] can, I believe on this one, swear any witnesses

[2:29:42] that need to be sworn.

[2:29:45] Is that right?

[2:29:45] LYNN HOSHIHARA: [INAUDIBLE]

[2:29:46] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: No, no, we don't have to.

[2:29:48] It's not quasi-judicial.

[2:29:47] JASON AUTREY: You're free to leave, Lynn.

[2:29:50] Thank you.

[2:29:49] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: There you go.

[2:29:50] [LAUGHTER]

[2:29:50] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Run while you can.

[2:29:52] All right, Mr. Autrey.

[2:29:53] JASON AUTREY: Good morning.

[2:29:54] Jason Autrey, Deputy County Administrator

[2:29:55] for Development Services.

[2:29:56] As this commission knows, we have

[2:29:59] a local infrastructure-- local option infrastructure

[2:30:00] surtax that's in place.

[2:30:03] We're currently in the midst of the seven years.

[2:30:05] So we've still got a little bit of time

[2:30:07] until this thing tapers out, but we're looking ahead.

[2:30:09] The needs for infrastructure to continue

[2:30:10] to exist in Okaloosa County, but we have found this past program

[2:30:15] to be remarkably successful, not only for Okaloosa County,

[2:30:16] but for our municipalities and for our public safety

[2:30:20] element as well.

[2:30:21] In order to-- the current surtax has

[2:30:23] a sunset that is in 10 years.

[2:30:26] So in December 31 of 2028, it will

[2:30:28] ceasefire to be implemented unless it is extended.

[2:30:31] And this ordinance that's presented before you

[2:30:33] allows us to put it back in front of the voting public

[2:30:39] again in the regular election in November.

[2:30:40] To follow this certain timeline that we have for notification,

[2:30:44] we have to do an audit through the state,

[2:30:46] and then we go and see what the public has to say about it.

[2:30:50] So this is a public hearing to propose putting language

[2:30:52] on the ballot in November for the extension

[2:30:55] of the infrastructure surtax to begin January 1, 2029,

[2:30:58] for another 10 year program.

[2:31:01] I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have on this.

[2:31:04] And Lynn as well, since she has been very gracious in helping me

[2:31:07] out with the ordinance.

[2:31:08] But that's what we have for you today.

[2:31:10] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[2:31:11] Very good.

[2:31:12] Any questions before we open the public comment?

[2:31:14] COMMISSIONER COX: I do.

[2:31:15] I just want you to tell us one more time how much of that

[2:31:19] local option surtax is paid for by our visitors?

[2:31:22] JASON AUTREY: Yeah, so the safe number that we have is

[2:31:26] that year round, the average is about 33% of it.

[2:31:28] A third of it comes from our tourism.

[2:31:30] And in the peak season, we see it at 50% or greater

[2:31:33] comes from the tourists that provide input into this.

[2:31:35] COMMISSIONER COX: OK.

[2:31:36] Thank you.

[2:31:36] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Very good.

[2:31:38] COMMISSIONER PALMER: And may I just ask something real quick?

[2:31:40] This is another softball, but how much

[2:31:40] have we been able to partner outside money with this surtax

[2:31:44] to the benefit of our community?

[2:31:47] COMMISSIONER COX: Very round numbers.

[2:31:48] Our current expenditure is about $136 million,

[2:31:50] of which we've turned into about $270 million for the project.

[2:31:55] So it's basically a 2 to 1 ratio.

[2:31:57] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[2:32:00] We'll open now our public comment

[2:32:02] portion of the public hearing.

[2:32:05] What's that?

[2:32:05] Oh, thank you.

[2:32:07] I turn the microphone off.

[2:32:09] We'll open the public comment portion of the public hearing.

[2:32:13] First speaker is Alan Jowers.

[2:32:25] ALAN JOWERS: Good morning, Chairman

[2:32:32] and the board of County Commissioners.

[2:32:34] My name is Alan Jowers.

[2:32:37] I am the incoming chair for the Fort Walton Beach,

[2:32:40] Greater Fort Walton Beach area Chamber

[2:32:42] of commerce and Bonnie Barlow is here,

[2:32:44] and she is the current chair for the Greater Fort Walton Beach

[2:32:49] chamber of Commerce.

[2:32:49] BONNIE BARLOW: Thank you for having us this morning.

[2:32:53] And on behalf of the Board of the Greater Fort Walton Beach

[2:32:56] Chamber of Commerce, we support this ordinance 100%.

[2:32:59] And that is for all of our board as well.

[2:33:05] And we're so excited to be able to do what we

[2:33:09] can to promote this ordinance.

[2:33:11] So thank you.

[2:33:13] ALAN JOWERS: Thank you.

[2:33:14] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you both for being here.

[2:33:17] Next speaker is Sandra Wilson.

[2:33:28] SANDRA WILSON: Good morning, Chairman Goodwin.

[2:33:35] Commissioners, thanks for having me.

[2:33:37] I'm Sandra Wilson, and I'm only here

[2:33:39] on behalf of the Crestview Chamber,

[2:33:41] but we can only echo what Fort Walton Beach Chamber is saying.

[2:33:44] We are in strong support of continuing this surtax.

[2:33:47] I think Crestview has seen a tremendous amount of money being

[2:33:51] put into our infrastructure that we all

[2:33:53] know is all about economic development,

[2:33:54] and we need safe roads, we need dependable stormwater systems

[2:33:58] and our public safety facilities.

[2:34:01] I know the Sheriff's Department has

[2:34:05] had a great benefit of those surtaxes,

[2:34:07] so I know infrastructure may not be glamorous,

[2:34:09] but neither are potholes.

[2:34:11] And we all know that we don't notice infrastructure

[2:34:14] when it's working, but you definitely notice when it's not.

[2:34:18] And anybody that's left Crestview at 6:00 AM

[2:34:20] in the morning and try to come back after 4:00 PM,

[2:34:24] has seen what it does.

[2:34:26] And because it's a tourist driven county,

[2:34:27] a portion of this investment, as we just heard,

[2:34:31] is shared by our visitors, which helps us a lot.

[2:34:34] And I feel like it's really killing

[2:34:35] two stones with one bird, and having the tourists help us

[2:34:38] with that.

[2:34:39] And being able to raise some more funds to match the dollar.

[2:34:43] So where businesses look to invest

[2:34:45] in our community and the predictable infrastructure

[2:34:48] funding sends a clear message that this is a good place

[2:34:52] to come for business.

[2:34:53] So thank you for putting this on our ballot,

[2:34:55] letting our citizens decide.

[2:34:56] We in the Crestview Chamber help to make sure

[2:34:59] that people understand what's on their ballot.

[2:35:01] Thank you.

[2:35:02] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you.

[2:35:04] Next speaker, Melissa, with the Emerald Coast Association

[2:35:06] of Realtors.

[2:35:08] MELISSA SKONIECKI: You got two Melissa's today.

[2:35:16] This is Melissa Garza, our government affairs director.

[2:35:18] And my name is Melissa Skoniecki.

[2:35:21] I'm here on behalf of the Emerald Coast Association

[2:35:24] of Realtors, representing more than 5,000 members.

[2:35:26] We respectfully request that you place the renewal of the 10-year

[2:35:30] half-cent surtax on the November 2026 ballot,

[2:35:33] covering January 2029 through December 2038.

[2:35:36] ECAR was an original supporter of the surtax in 2018

[2:35:42] because we believe strong in infrastructure,

[2:35:44] responsible planning and a high quality of life that

[2:35:48] are essential to our healthy community and stable real estate

[2:35:52] market.

[2:35:52] Since taking effect in 2019, the surtax

[2:35:55] has delivered measurable results.

[2:35:57] As you know, most importantly, it

[2:35:59] has allowed the county to maintain

[2:36:01] a millage rate of under 4%.

[2:36:03] Predictable, stable tax rates are

[2:36:05] critical for housing affordability, homeownership,

[2:36:07] and long-term economic competitiveness.

[2:36:10] Beyond the fiscal stability, as you

[2:36:13] know, the surtax has funded over 18 road projects,

[2:36:16] improved traffic mobility, strengthened

[2:36:18] the stormwater and water quality systems,

[2:36:21] it's enhanced public safety, and upgraded

[2:36:23] pedestrian infrastructure.

[2:36:25] These improvements directly impact property values,

[2:36:28] buyer confidence, and neighborhood desirability.

[2:36:31] As realtors, we serve as trusted advisors

[2:36:35] to families and investors choosing

[2:36:37] to call Okaloosa County home.

[2:36:40] Strong infrastructure and sound fiscal management

[2:36:42] matter to them, and the long-term resilience

[2:36:45] of our great community.

[2:36:47] For these reasons, ECAR respectfully

[2:36:49] supports placing the renewal of the half-cent surtax

[2:36:52] before voters in 2026.

[2:36:54] Thank you very much for your consideration.

[2:36:57] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you.

[2:37:00] All right.

[2:37:02] Our next speaker, Nathan Sparks.

[2:37:03] NATHAN SPARKS: Mr. Chairman, commissioners,

[2:37:09] great to be with you this morning.

[2:37:11] It is still morning, right?

[2:37:13] [CHUCKLING]

[2:37:13] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: A little while.

[2:37:16] NATHAN SPARKS: Folks, you know this,

[2:37:18] building community requires intentional action,

[2:37:19] and you all have taken intentional action consistently,

[2:37:23] just as you did back in 2018, in allowing the resolution

[2:37:27] to come forward to put the surtax, the infrastructure

[2:37:31] surtax, before the voters, and we see the fruits of that.

[2:37:35] Building community also requires resources,

[2:37:37] and that's exactly what the surtax has provided.

[2:37:40] I go to a lot of economic development meetings,

[2:37:45] as you would expect, and I hear regularly the importance

[2:37:48] of infrastructure.

[2:37:49] Infrastructure really is ranked right there

[2:37:51] with education and workforce in terms of economic development

[2:37:54] success.

[2:37:56] But you know it's also, infrastructure

[2:37:57] is also catalytic.

[2:37:58] Last night, I took a look at the numbers.

[2:38:01] In 2019, when the infrastructure surtax took effect.

[2:38:03] According to the US Bureau of Economic Analysis,

[2:38:07] Okaloosa County's GDP was $13 billion. $13 billion.

[2:38:10] In 2024, five years later, which is

[2:38:17] the year that-- the most recent year

[2:38:20] for which data is available.

[2:38:21] So five years later, the GDP of our county was $19 billion.

[2:38:24] $6 billion growth in our GDP over five years.

[2:38:29] That's a 46% increase.

[2:38:31] So how does that compare to the previous five years

[2:38:35] when we didn't have the infrastructure surtax?

[2:38:36] So if you look at 2014, our GDP was a mere $10 billion.

[2:38:40] And we increased, in 2019, to $13 billion, as I mentioned.

[2:38:47] So we went up 30% in that five-year time period in which

[2:38:51] we did not have a surtax.

[2:38:53] So I firmly believe--

[2:38:54] I'm not saying the surtax is the panacea that solves everything,

[2:38:57] and it's certainly not the source that

[2:39:00] provided all of that economic growth,

[2:39:02] but it provided the framework for that economic growth.

[2:39:04] The reality is, people invest in communities

[2:39:07] that invest in themselves.

[2:39:08] And we've heard that time and time again

[2:39:11] when we've met with clients considering our community.

[2:39:12] They value that this commission has

[2:39:14] done the hard things to position our community for growth.

[2:39:19] And so, certainly, we're in favor of it

[2:39:22] on behalf of our nearly 200 members at 1 Okaloosa

[2:39:25] EDC and our board.

[2:39:26] We stand in firm support, and certainly, we'll

[2:39:28] do anything we can to help message it accordingly.

[2:39:32] Thank you.

[2:39:32] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you.

[2:39:34] All right.

[2:39:35] That's the last speaker card I have for this public hearing.

[2:39:38] So we'll close the public comment portion of the meeting.

[2:39:40] I do want to bring up one housekeeping issue.

[2:39:43] I think Ms. Hoshihara has a version of the proposed

[2:39:45] ordinance that has one additional clarification in it.

[2:39:50] Ms. Hoshihara, do you want to let the board

[2:39:55] know what that is to determine if the board wants to use

[2:40:00] the clarified version or not?

[2:40:01] LYNN HOSHIHARA: Sure.

[2:40:04] The clarified version adds the words land acquisition

[2:40:06] specifically within the ballot language such that it reads,

[2:40:12] Shall the county continue to levy a half-cent sales

[2:40:15] surtax on taxable transactions countywide

[2:40:16] for 10 years effective January 1, 2029,

[2:40:19] for funding critical needs, including essential law

[2:40:23] enforcement, public safety facilities.

[2:40:24] And included land acquisitions, reduced traffic congestion,

[2:40:28] construction, repairing of roads, bridges, and sidewalks,

[2:40:32] flood control and water quality improvements,

[2:40:34] associated equipment, and to construct other public facility

[2:40:37] improvements and paid debt subject to oversight

[2:40:40] by a citizens committee.

[2:40:41] So specific inclusion of the term land acquisition

[2:40:44] is proposed to be included in the ballot language,

[2:40:49] if that's the board's desire to do so.

[2:40:51] COMMISSIONER COX: Do we need a consensus on that?

[2:40:55] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Well, I think

[2:40:57] it would be part of the motion.

[2:40:59] COMMISSIONER PALMER: Yeah.

[2:41:00] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: If anybody--

[2:41:01] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Chairman, I'll be glad to make the motion,

[2:41:03] as Ms. Hoshihara just stated--

[2:41:05] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: OK.

[2:41:06] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: --and I'll put a comment

[2:41:08] when I get a second.

[2:41:09] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[2:41:10] Do we have a second?

[2:41:10] OK, we have a motion and a second.

[2:41:12] As clarified with Ms. Hoshihara's discussion.

[2:41:13] All right, Commissioner Ketchel.

[2:41:16] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: So first, I

[2:41:17] want to commend everybody who sat through 2.5 hours.

[2:41:20] This is how important it was for the chambers and ECAR,

[2:41:23] that they stayed and, of course, thank you.

[2:41:27] I just can't thank Nathan Sparks enough for all

[2:41:30] that he has done for our community and our county.

[2:41:34] This surtax was a game changer.

[2:41:37] I literally probably would have run for years and stopped.

[2:41:40] I've said that to many people.

[2:41:42] Because everybody would call and say,

[2:41:43] I've got this huge pothole in my--

[2:41:45] literally, I could put a Volkswagen in it.

[2:41:48] And I'd have to say, I'll put you on the list,

[2:41:50] and I'd call Mr. Autrey and he'd say, I'll put it on the list

[2:41:53] probably next seven or eight years.

[2:41:53] And that is no joke.

[2:41:55] That's how far behind we were in infrastructure projects

[2:41:58] in this county.

[2:41:59] And I am so grateful to the voters

[2:42:02] that they gave us this 10 years, and I only

[2:42:04] hope that they will give us another 10

[2:42:06] years so that we can continue the great work of this county.

[2:42:09] It has made a huge difference.

[2:42:11] It was a game changer.

[2:42:12] And we have so many pressing projects in front of us

[2:42:15] yet, which I won't go into today,

[2:42:18] but there's a long list of them.

[2:42:20] And without this, all work would ceasefire within about a year.

[2:42:23] So thank you very much and thank you all for being here.

[2:42:27] It made a huge difference.

[2:42:27] And I mean that.

[2:42:28] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Mr. Palmer.

[2:42:28] COMMISSIONER PALMER: Thank you, Chairman.

[2:42:31] I'd like to echo that I deeply, deeply

[2:42:33] appreciate the involvement of the Chambers of Commerce

[2:42:36] and our ECAR and our Economic Development team.

[2:42:40] This is such an important thing.

[2:42:46] The question that I asked to start this was,

[2:42:49] how much have we been able to impact our community with this?

[2:42:54] And so although I've been guilty in the past of saying

[2:42:58] that 50% is paid by our visitors,

[2:43:01] however, understanding it's only--

[2:43:05] one third of it is paid by the visitors.

[2:43:08] But then when you couple that with how

[2:43:10] we've been able to leverage that into partnering money,

[2:43:12] and we can say that this money that we're

[2:43:16] spending on infrastructure is only one third

[2:43:17] paid by our residents, which is an amazing statistic.

[2:43:20] And I thank you for the work that you do on that.

[2:43:24] I thank you for those who are supporting it.

[2:43:26] When this was originally envisioned

[2:43:27] and when this was originally approved, all we had was

[2:43:31] promises that we would go and spend this money wisely

[2:43:34] and positively impact our community,

[2:43:36] and now we have proof.

[2:43:39] And I think the proof is shown by those

[2:43:41] who are now supporting it and are out there

[2:43:44] and pushing this for us.

[2:43:45] So thank you very much for-- and thank you all for being here.

[2:43:48] JASON AUTREY: If I may add to that, I do want to point out,

[2:43:51] this agenda item has a good bit to it.

[2:43:53] And one of the things that, I think, proves successful to this

[2:43:56] was that we had a projects list.

[2:43:57] We will do that exact same process.

[2:43:58] And it has a Citizens Advisory committee,

[2:44:00] we will do that exact same process.

[2:44:02] So I want it to be clear, this is really

[2:44:05] looking to be a continuation of what

[2:44:06] we view as the successful effort we've had to this point.

[2:44:09] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Commissioner Cox?

[2:44:11] COMMISSIONER COX: Thank you.

[2:44:12] Thank you, Chairman.

[2:44:13] So I just wanted to speak for a moment on something that

[2:44:17] may seem off topic, but very on topic for me

[2:44:20] because of the other hat that I wear

[2:44:22] in a group of highly engaged citizens whose interests are

[2:44:25] usually on whether or not taxes are constitutional.

[2:44:28] I had the privilege to speak to them recently about this,

[2:44:32] that this is, just for the public's benefit,

[2:44:34] the most constitutional form of a tax

[2:44:37] that you could possibly access.

[2:44:39] It's a tax that's voted on by the citizens.

[2:44:42] It is a tax that you have the choice, finally,

[2:44:45] to say this is how much I want to pay.

[2:44:49] This is not how much I want to pay.

[2:44:51] And it is equally shared by ourselves and our visitors.

[2:44:53] Not to say that it's 50-50, that is to say that as a visitor

[2:44:59] comes to our area, they are incurring that tax the same way

[2:45:02] that you would in the grocery stores, in the restaurants,

[2:45:06] wherever they visit.

[2:45:07] On our streets, on our beaches, in our lakes and rivers

[2:45:10] and what have you, they're incurring the same taxes

[2:45:13] that you are.

[2:45:15] So for me, it's an easy, yes, because this

[2:45:18] is the fairest application of taxing our citizens,

[2:45:21] and with the largest benefit that I've seen so far.

[2:45:25] So that's all I had to say about that.

[2:45:28] Thank you.

[2:45:28] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[2:45:29] Very good.

[2:45:30] Anyone else?

[2:45:30] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Sure.

[2:45:33] Two departments are very heavy in surtax.

[2:45:35] It's great to see Public Works' tremendous efforts to continue

[2:45:39] keeping the projects going.

[2:45:42] And then you wouldn't be able to see that if it wasn't for IT.

[2:45:47] And IT does a great job with the website.

[2:45:48] JASON AUTREY: Yup.

[2:45:49] COMMISSIONER MIXON: How Interactive

[2:45:49] it is, to be able to see who sits on that board, which

[2:45:54] does a tremendous job.

[2:45:55] I've seen some citizen boards that are merely advisory,

[2:45:58] and they're able to take that to the extreme.

[2:46:02] And really, it becomes just a show and a rubber stamp.

[2:46:06] And our citizen advisory board for this is not that way.

[2:46:11] They do tremendous work.

[2:46:13] My representative on there, Larry Ward,

[2:46:15] does tremendous work, continues to keep

[2:46:18] pushing things both for our district

[2:46:20] and on the public safety side.

[2:46:22] It's great to see, and that that's open for anybody,

[2:46:25] to go to the website and see what projects are happening,

[2:46:29] where they are, look at the map interactively,

[2:46:31] go in, see where it is, what stage the project's in,

[2:46:34] and the meetings are open.

[2:46:36] So if anybody had questions about this,

[2:46:37] I would encourage to dive in while you still have time,

[2:46:40] because it's tremendous to see.

[2:46:41] This is how our property taxes are able to stay at the rate

[2:46:45] where they are towards the bottom of the scale

[2:46:48] in comparison to the state.

[2:46:50] JASON AUTREY: And on that, I'd be remiss

[2:46:53] if I didn't thank Clark Embry, because their staff is

[2:46:55] the one that provides the data that goes on to that web page.

[2:46:59] And without their assistance, we couldn't

[2:47:00] get the data that's out there.

[2:47:02] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Very good.

[2:47:05] All right, further comment?

[2:47:06] All right, those in favor, please signal by saying Aye.

[2:47:09] COMMISSIONER COX: Aye.

[2:47:10] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Aye.

[2:47:10] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And those opposed.

[2:47:11] That passes unanimously.

[2:47:12] JASON AUTREY: Thank you.

[2:47:13] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you, Mr. Autrey.

[2:47:14] All right.

[2:47:15] That concludes our public hearings.

[2:47:17] And now we're on to department business with Ms. bird

[2:47:21] from Human Resources.

[2:47:22] MS. BIRD: I'm here today with--

[2:47:28] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Will you hit the button?

[2:47:29] Sorry.

[2:47:28] MS.BIRD: It was on.

[2:47:30] Sorry.

[2:47:30] I'm here today with Kyle Stoeckel, our broker.

[2:47:32] You guys are probably used to seeing Paul Dawson.

[2:47:36] Paul was retiring, and this is his replacement.

[2:47:37] And he's going to take good care of us.

[2:47:40] In response to market increases a couple of years

[2:47:43] ago, the board implemented a layered property structure

[2:47:45] to keep costs down, and that's been very successful.

[2:47:49] A couple of years ago, the county

[2:47:52] took a significant step toward self-insurance

[2:47:53] by assuming the responsibility of one of the carriers.

[2:47:56] That has also been very successful,

[2:47:59] and we are seeing further savings than we did last year

[2:48:03] on this, at almost $128,000 from that piece of the premium.

[2:48:07] Staff recommends keeping this structure and approach,

[2:48:11] and continuing to designate to a property reserve allocation

[2:48:14] of $300,000 this year, just like we did last year.

[2:48:18] We have to prove to FEMA, as we take that self-insurance quota

[2:48:23] share portion, that we are preparing for that.

[2:48:25] There's currently $800,000 in that account right now.

[2:48:29] Due to the softening of the market,

[2:48:33] we're renewing with a rate reduction.

[2:48:34] The rate of $100 of insured value is at $0.30,

[2:48:37] which is a reduction from $0.37 last year.

[2:48:41] This is well below the rates of our fellow counties around us.

[2:48:45] Escambia, Walton and Santa Rosa, some of those are near $1.

[2:48:50] The property insurance premium is

[2:48:52] based on a total insured value this year of $410 million,

[2:48:56] which represents $63 million increase from last year.

[2:49:00] And that is due to the fact that we've

[2:49:04] been successful in getting the majority of our properties

[2:49:06] appraised.

[2:49:07] They had not been appraised in some time,

[2:49:10] and we were afraid that we would have to pick and choose

[2:49:13] what we put on there in order to be able to afford the property

[2:49:16] insurance, but because of the softening of the market,

[2:49:17] we're able to go ahead and absorb that.

[2:49:19] In addition, because of the way the market is right now,

[2:49:22] we're able to add some things that we were not

[2:49:25] able to in the past.

[2:49:27] For instance, there's an extra expense coverage

[2:49:29] that was $1 million.

[2:49:30] We're able to get $5 million.

[2:49:32] And what that would do is if we did have a storm,

[2:49:35] it would pay for rental of facilities.

[2:49:36] Also, if we had to expedite a part or something in order

[2:49:40] to get us back in business quicker,

[2:49:42] we can use that expense for that.

[2:49:44] And we also have blanket replacement cost, which

[2:49:47] is the biggest improvement.

[2:49:48] We had 110% margin costs.

[2:49:51] So now if we had a $5 million building

[2:49:54] and it was underreported and it is actually $7 million cost,

[2:49:58] it would be--

[2:50:01] we can replace it as we needed to.

[2:50:04] So we're asking that you approve this approach,

[2:50:07] keeping us with the self-insured portion,

[2:50:11] and also that you would allocate $300,000 to the property

[2:50:15] reserve.

[2:50:16] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Commissioners, questions,

[2:50:20] action?

[2:50:22] MS.BIRD: Motion to approve with discussion.

[2:50:24] - Second, with discussion.

[2:50:27] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right, we have a motion and a second.

[2:50:30] Commissioner Cox?

[2:50:30] COMMISSIONER COX: I just wanted to say welcome aboard, and thank

[2:50:33] you so much to you and your department for all that you do.

[2:50:38] I know that probably nobody, least of all the taxpayer,

[2:50:40] realizes how much a human resources department is

[2:50:44] doing behind the scenes.

[2:50:46] I know I don't on the regular realize how much you're doing

[2:50:49] and how busy you guys are behind the scenes

[2:50:51] getting all this stuff done in addition

[2:50:53] to addressing payroll concerns and staffing shortages

[2:50:55] and what have you, that we have, in every department

[2:51:00] throughout the county.

[2:51:02] We really appreciate all the hard work that you do.

[2:51:05] I mean, it's evident when you come forward.

[2:51:06] I know you're not asking for praise, but this is me saying,

[2:51:09] we really appreciate you working so

[2:51:10] hard to reduce the impact on Okaloosa's taxpayers.

[2:51:12] MS. BIRD: Thank you.

[2:51:15] And we appreciate the staff so much.

[2:51:17] Terrance Lane is our newest addition to RISK,

[2:51:20] and he worked really hard to get these properties appraised,

[2:51:24] and has worked very hard on the renewal.

[2:51:26] So thank you for that.

[2:51:27] COMMISSIONER COX: Well, thank you, Terrence.

[2:51:28] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[2:51:30] Commissioner Ketchel, did you have something to add?

[2:51:32] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: I echo those thoughts.

[2:51:33] Ms. Bird, you brought total professionalism

[2:51:34] to this position.

[2:51:36] Thank you so much for all the hard work.

[2:51:38] But I also want to give a shout out to Representative Nathan

[2:51:41] Boyles.

[2:51:42] I mean, he was the one--

[2:51:44] I was very nervous when he suggested self-insurance,

[2:51:45] but he was right, and it has paid off.

[2:51:49] And we've been blessed not to have hurricanes and storms.

[2:51:52] So I hope he hears these kind words that I'm saying about him,

[2:51:55] because we would spar up here a lot.

[2:51:58] But anyway, it's good.

[2:51:59] Welcome, and I know you'll be a good advisor too.

[2:52:02] It's been great.

[2:52:03] Thank you, Ms. Bird.

[2:52:04] MS. BIRD: Thank you.

[2:52:05] We're appreciative of Nathan Boyles too.

[2:52:06] He made us sharper.

[2:52:08] [CHUCKLES] He made us sharper, and this board

[2:52:10] makes us sharper by the questions that we get.

[2:52:13] So we appreciate that.

[2:52:14] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Very good.

[2:52:14] Further discussion, commissioners?

[2:52:15] All right, those in favor, please signal by saying Aye.

[2:52:19] COMMISSIONER COX: Aye.

[2:52:19] COMMISSIONER PALMER: Aye.

[2:52:20] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Those opposed?

[2:52:20] All right, that passes unanimously.

[2:52:21] Thank you.

[2:52:22] Next department business.

[2:52:24] Jeff Peters.

[2:52:25] Lovingly known as Mr. Parks.

[2:52:29] JEFF PETERS: Or whatever you can come up with.

[2:52:33] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Or something else.

[2:52:34] I heard another one, but your mom

[2:52:35] said not to say it in a public meeting.

[2:52:37] JEFF PETERS: That's right.

[2:52:38] Thank you, Chairman, members of the board.

[2:52:40] Before you today is a dredging contract.

[2:52:41] Single source with Viking Dredging in the amount

[2:52:44] of $275,000.

[2:52:45] It's at Meigs Park.

[2:52:48] This project was designed, submitted

[2:52:50] for permitting a few years ago.

[2:52:52] We did receive word back in November of '25,

[2:52:56] just a few months ago, that it was approved.

[2:53:00] We were fortunate enough that the Noreaga Point

[2:53:02] area was being dredged and utilized a single source

[2:53:05] contract to recommend to the board today for approval

[2:53:09] to save quite a bit of money on the mobilization fees and stuff.

[2:53:13] So if approved today, it would be looking to start about May 1

[2:53:18] here in the next couple of months,

[2:53:20] and it would take about two weeks to complete.

[2:53:22] About 600 cubic yards of sand.

[2:53:24] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Ms. Ketchel, it's your district.

[2:53:26] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Yes, it's my district,

[2:53:28] and I'm so grateful that this is happening.

[2:53:29] I want to thank Mr. Coffey.

[2:53:31] He's done a lot of work on this, and this

[2:53:33] will be a very welcome to the residents who

[2:53:35] claim they can't get many of their even small boats out right

[2:53:39] now through John Boats.

[2:53:40] So thank you.

[2:53:41] So I'll make a motion for approval.

[2:53:43] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Second.

[2:53:43] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right, we

[2:53:44] have a motion to approve with a second.

[2:53:46] Do we have further discussion?

[2:53:47] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Who's-- the dredging,

[2:53:50] we're getting this price because they're in the area.

[2:53:54] Who's paying for the dredging of the harbor?

[2:53:57] JEFF PETERS: It was a split.

[2:53:59] The county paid for about half of it.

[2:54:01] I believe it was a $650,000.

[2:54:02] Craig may know that. $650,000-ish,

[2:54:05] and the county put up about half of that.

[2:54:08] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: OK.

[2:54:09] COMMISSIONER PALMER: We came up with a metrics on that

[2:54:12] a few years ago with the cost share

[2:54:14] because we have a boat launch at that location.

[2:54:16] So we have a vested interest in keeping that channel open.

[2:54:21] But you also have a number of property owners

[2:54:23] that are situated on that lagoon.

[2:54:24] So it was a long process, but everybody's contributing

[2:54:28] to the overall cost of that.

[2:54:30] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: I think there's an MSBU in place.

[2:54:32] Am I right, Mr. Coffey?

[2:54:33] Did we put an MSBU in place?

[2:54:35] CRAIG COFFEY: Yeah, the MSBU is in place.

[2:54:37] It was based on a certain dollar amount.

[2:54:38] We may have to revisit that, but the idea

[2:54:41] was the county was going to do the initial project,

[2:54:43] and then over time, they were going to, essentially,

[2:54:45] save away, sock away money for the future project.

[2:54:47] And that was the plan.

[2:54:49] And right now, we have the three funding sources

[2:54:52] that came in a little bit higher,

[2:54:54] but I think this is probably our best option as far

[2:54:56] as to avoid the mobilization.

[2:54:57] COMMISSIONER MIXON: And this would be appreciated

[2:54:59] by the residents of Lake Clyde.

[2:55:01] It's turned into a good partnership.

[2:55:03] It didn't look that way in the beginning,

[2:55:05] but it did evolve into that.

[2:55:06] And I think it's going to be a great path forward.

[2:55:10] My question was geared towards the harbor.

[2:55:11] Since we're doing it under the same purview,

[2:55:13] I wanted to see how the split was in paying for that.

[2:55:16] I remember we had some involvement,

[2:55:17] I just wasn't sure where it is.

[2:55:20] CRAIG COFFEY: The harbor was up to $400,000.

[2:55:22] Our contribution up to 50%, not to exceed $800,000 total project

[2:55:26] any above that.

[2:55:28] It came in under that.

[2:55:30] The project is already done.

[2:55:31] I'm sure the city is going to be sending us a bill for that,

[2:55:35] but that's an interlocal we worked on just fine.

[2:55:36] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: If I may say one more thing, Chairman.

[2:55:39] So a little bit like what Commissioner Palmer's

[2:55:41] going through now, I had some very angry citizens around Lake

[2:55:44] Clyde.

[2:55:45] That was quite a few town hall meetings, but we got there

[2:55:48] and we worked through it.

[2:55:50] So I know we'll work through this Noriega thing as well.

[2:55:53] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[2:55:53] Further discussion?

[2:55:54] Those in favor, please signal by saying Aye.

[2:55:57] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Aye.

[2:55:57] COMMISSIONER PALMER: Aye.

[2:55:58] COMMISSIONER COX: Aye.

[2:55:58] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Those opposed?

[2:55:58] All right.

[2:55:58] That passes unanimously.

[2:55:59] Thank you, Mr. Peters.

[2:56:01] All right.

[2:56:02] Next department business.

[2:56:04] Craig Coffey.

[2:56:05] CRAIG COFFEY: Thank you, Commissioners.

[2:56:10] It's my pleasure to bring you yet another project that's

[2:56:13] partnering with cities in our county.

[2:56:16] And in the staff write-up, I talked about Destin,

[2:56:20] Fort Walton Beach, Mary Esther, Cinco Bayou, and Shalimar

[2:56:22] are all projects interlocals we've done.

[2:56:24] I've been involved in all the Destin interlocals,

[2:56:27] the last five years, every single one of them.

[2:56:30] So I'm proud of that fact.

[2:56:31] And I think we will get there too.

[2:56:33] This property in particular, this

[2:56:35] is a kind of building off another project that we've

[2:56:38] worked on with the town of Shalimar.

[2:56:40] If you recall, we worked on the other corner, the Southeast

[2:56:44] corner of the bridge, and we entered into an interlocal

[2:56:46] with that.

[2:56:48] We did that in 2023.

[2:56:49] We bought that property for about $900,000.

[2:56:51] And I will tell you, that property was an eyesore

[2:56:56] for many, many years.

[2:56:56] We've cleaned it up a lot already.

[2:56:59] Just removing-- there was foundations there,

[2:57:00] and I even found some old pictures there

[2:57:03] before that structure burnt down.

[2:57:04] It has a very interesting and checkered history,

[2:57:06] that property.

[2:57:08] What this would propose is buying the property, essentially

[2:57:11] a sister parcel on the Northeast corner,

[2:57:13] and it would, essentially, coming forward,

[2:57:15] we would propose to remove the town of Shalimar

[2:57:19] out of that other interlocal and essentially

[2:57:21] enter into a new interlocal with them.

[2:57:23] How are we going to pay for this?

[2:57:25] What's the purchase price?

[2:57:25] The purchase price is proposed to be about $3 million,

[2:57:28] with about $50,000 of closing costs and some conceptual stuff.

[2:57:31] We propose to pay for it with a variety of contributors

[2:57:35] to this in the park.

[2:57:37] Building the park, the park-- any park today--

[2:57:39] and we got into discussion even on the Destin,

[2:57:42] why put a dollar amount in there?

[2:57:44] I will tell you, any park today, you're probably

[2:57:46] looking at about $3 million.

[2:57:47] Whether it's the one in Mary Esther or the one in Shalimar,

[2:57:51] just to get off the ground between design,

[2:57:52] between construction and anything

[2:57:53] you've got to do with it.

[2:57:55] We've estimated the total cost of the project

[2:57:57] would be a little bit over $6 million total

[2:57:59] between acquisition and development across the way.

[2:58:01] We've asked for $1.5 million from the legislature,

[2:58:05] and we'll see if that comes through.

[2:58:09] We made that a contingency of the purchase sale agreement.

[2:58:12] We've asked for $1.5 Million from the town of Shalimar.

[2:58:14] There's more work to be done there.

[2:58:16] And again, that would be partly tourism money.

[2:58:17] And I think the mayor had some other great ideas

[2:58:21] on how to work with us on that.

[2:58:23] This property, I'll talk in general,

[2:58:25] compared to our other property, other property

[2:58:29] has a large billboard next door.

[2:58:31] 50 foot of public right of way.

[2:58:33] This property has an adjoining parcel

[2:58:35] that the town owns that's essentially parallel

[2:58:37] to Highway 85.

[2:58:39] It has plenty of trees.

[2:58:42] It has water sewer, electric already to the site

[2:58:45] because there was a house there before it burnt down.

[2:58:47] So it has a lot of--

[2:58:49] plus, it has a shoreline that has a seawall.

[2:58:51] Now, it's a homemade seawall.

[2:58:53] I'm not going to say it was engineered fully,

[2:58:55] but it has lots of broken concrete,

[2:58:56] and I think that will actually save us money in-- considering

[2:59:00] how we've had to pay for those in the past,

[2:59:03] it might need rebuilding at some point,

[2:59:04] but I would say that it might save us money and allow

[2:59:08] us to get the park off the ground quicker.

[2:59:09] It dead ends with Clifford Drive.

[2:59:12] And-- I'm trying to think of any other questions I

[2:59:16] can answer for you.

[2:59:17] You've heard the mayor of the town

[2:59:22] speak passionately about it.

[2:59:24] And it would be a great project, great addition

[2:59:28] to join our other park.

[2:59:29] So I'll entertain any questions you have.

[2:59:30] I'm not going to go into the PowerPoint bore you with that,

[2:59:34] but that concludes my presentation.

[2:59:34] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Motion for approval with discussion.

[2:59:39] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: We have a motion to approve with a second.

[2:59:43] Commissioner Ketchel?

[2:59:43] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: So this is a once in a lifetime

[2:59:46] opportunity.

[2:59:46] This would, I'm sure, go to condos and houses

[2:59:48] if we don't do this.

[2:59:50] It's an absolutely beautiful parcel.

[2:59:51] I've been assured by Trumbull, he's working hard

[2:59:54] to get the $1.5 million, and Representative Maney

[2:59:58] was in my ear before I even had a chance to bring this forward.

[3:00:03] He really wants this as well.

[3:00:04] And I think you all have heard from him, maybe,

[3:00:07] or know about that.

[3:00:07] So looking forward to possibly seeing this

[3:00:10] become a really beautiful entryway into Shalimar.

[3:00:13] And I thank the mayor for sitting through all

[3:00:17] of this today and being here.

[3:00:19] It's really kind of you.

[3:00:20] I could go on and on about the parcel.

[3:00:24] I think the fact that we're going

[3:00:25] to name it after the original owner who sat up

[3:00:28] on this dais for 20 years, I think

[3:00:30] that's a real tribute to the family.

[3:00:32] So--

[3:00:32] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[3:00:35] Commissioner Palmer, did you have anything to add?

[3:00:38] All right.

[3:00:38] COMMISSIONER MIXON: I just have some questions.

[3:00:40] How was the-- looking through this,

[3:00:42] I see that an appraisal would come, but there's not one yet.

[3:00:47] How was the price gained?

[3:00:49] How did we come to that?

[3:00:52] We're taking some heat over another parcel,

[3:00:53] and that's because there's underlying disagreement with how

[3:00:56] they came to a price, and they came to a price per their packet

[3:01:00] with appraisals.

[3:01:01] I don't see any appraisals on this,

[3:01:03] and we've come to a price that's more

[3:01:05] elevated than any other vacant piece in its area.

[3:01:07] And so I just--

[3:01:08] fiscal stewardship is still our job.

[3:01:11] I want to be sure that we're moving in the right direction,

[3:01:15] and that's expensive.

[3:01:16] CRAIG COFFEY: Yeah, so let me try and address

[3:01:22] that a little bit.

[3:01:23] You're right, an appraisal is required as part of our process

[3:01:26] and per state law.

[3:01:27] So we have to get that done.

[3:01:29] There's a value that is required to meet the purchase price,

[3:01:32] or it's required to be brought back here.

[3:01:33] I think we actually put 90% of the value.

[3:01:35] We typically do that in case it's close,

[3:01:38] but it's not quite there.

[3:01:40] And I tried to put some rationale in our staff report.

[3:01:43] And the way I tried to rationalize it was,

[3:01:46] this is about 2 and 1/4 times the size of the other parcel we

[3:01:50] bought in 2023.

[3:01:50] Now, granted, property values have leveled off, probably.

[3:01:54] I mean, they weren't really crazy after COVID,

[3:01:57] but waterfront, obviously they're not making any more.

[3:02:01] This is an opportunity.

[3:02:03] It's there.

[3:02:04] But if you multiply just the 2.2 and 1/4 times $900,000.

[3:02:07] What we paid in '23, that gets you over $2 million.

[3:02:11] Then you start dragging in some other things,

[3:02:14] like the riprap along the seawall.

[3:02:16] Granted, it's a homemade wall.

[3:02:19] It's not perfect.

[3:02:20] And I'm hoping-- it probably wasn't a permitted seawall.

[3:02:22] Hopefully, we can use that.

[3:02:24] But then the property in general is just much nicer.

[3:02:27] It has the utilities there.

[3:02:28] It has the trees there.

[3:02:30] It has the other things I mentioned.

[3:02:31] Not a big giant billboard next to it.

[3:02:34] So there's some of those things there.

[3:02:36] How we got to the price, obviously,

[3:02:38] it's always a negotiation with the owner.

[3:02:39] This owner owns a lot of other properties.

[3:02:42] This owner is an attorney.

[3:02:43] The son of a 40-year county attorney.

[3:02:45] So we tried to appeal to naming the park after his father

[3:02:51] and that was our appeal to him.

[3:02:54] But I will tell you that developers, once the house

[3:02:57] burnt down over the last several months,

[3:03:00] we're competing with the private market a little bit.

[3:03:02] They come knocking because what does that happen?

[3:03:04] It gets parceled up and chopped into individual lots.

[3:03:07] And the case we made was, yeah, you could sell

[3:03:10] and you can make money and you'd potentially make more money.

[3:03:13] It might price higher, it might price a little lower.

[3:03:15] Who knows?

[3:03:16] But I said, your dad's legacy is not going to be saved that way.

[3:03:19] It's going to be houses and it's going to be someone else's.

[3:03:22] Your kids can't come back and visit

[3:03:23] the park and your grandkids, and he's

[3:03:25] got all those sentiments wrapped up into that,

[3:03:27] and he's had huge discussions with his family.

[3:03:29] We tried to negotiate back and forth.

[3:03:31] He actually wanted more than this.

[3:03:34] He's stuck at $3 million.

[3:03:36] We wanted to keep going down, but it was a good back and forth

[3:03:41] discussion.

[3:03:40] And it's always, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder

[3:03:45] and the market Bears.

[3:03:46] But it's not--

[3:03:47] COMMISSIONER MIXON: So the back and forth, we

[3:03:49] do have a signed copy?

[3:03:51] The copy in our packet is not signed.

[3:03:53] CRAIG COFFEY: I do not have a signed copy.

[3:03:55] I have a commitment that he's agreed

[3:03:56] to the terms and conditions.

[3:03:57] So I will have a signed copy after following the meeting.

[3:03:59] COMMISSIONER MIXON: OK.

[3:04:00] So what level would this come back to us

[3:04:03] before we follow through with any action?

[3:04:06] CRAIG COFFEY: Well, I think it wouldn't necessarily

[3:04:09] come back to you unless some of the contingencies

[3:04:12] couldn't be met.

[3:04:13] For example, if the appraiser didn't come in

[3:04:15] within the parameters we put in the pre-sale.

[3:04:16] If the legislature, if we didn't get $1.5 million

[3:04:19] from the legislature and there was money

[3:04:20] to be made up the product.

[3:04:21] If the town of Shalimar didn't come up with the $1.5 million.

[3:04:24] All those would be contingencies that we'd

[3:04:25] have to come back and bring that back to the board,

[3:04:28] because then we can't quite put it together,

[3:04:30] and it's a reconsideration of does this make sense?

[3:04:33] And we tried to up that.

[3:04:36] Initially, we asked-- and we included,

[3:04:37] I think, the Senate request, initially, $1 million.

[3:04:39] And not having a price point, you're right.

[3:04:42] We don't have appraisal, we were doing

[3:04:44] the best we can based on market and other properties

[3:04:46] out there that we bought or we know that's on the market.

[3:04:49] So there was a little bit back and forth on that.

[3:04:53] And so all that to come to say, we

[3:04:54] have contingencies to protect us,

[3:04:56] that if we get down this road.

[3:04:58] And we delay closing, really, till up to October 31.

[3:05:00] So any expenses that we're facing

[3:05:02] will be baked into next year's budget as well.

[3:05:05] We'll probably close in the October time frame,

[3:05:07] provided we got the legislative money, and the town of Shalimar,

[3:05:10] we'd be back probably in the next meeting or two

[3:05:13] with their interlocal as well with those same contingencies.

[3:05:15] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Seawalls can be very, very expensive.

[3:05:18] CRAIG COFFEY: Yes, sir.

[3:05:20] We found that--

[3:05:21] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Has anyone looked at that one?

[3:05:23] CRAIG COFFEY: We have not done any--

[3:05:24] that's part of our due diligence process too.

[3:05:25] And if we feel we can't use it for some reason, that

[3:05:29] might be a big thing too, because that's

[3:05:31] a value added that we're counting,

[3:05:32] that's been there for a long time.

[3:05:35] And if it turns out we can't use that for some reason,

[3:05:39] then that may be change the mechanics,

[3:05:40] the financial parameters of the deal.

[3:05:42] Because I will tell you that in working with Mary Esther,

[3:05:45] and that project Crystal Ball Landing, there was $1 million

[3:05:49] worth of seawall and it was a shorter shoreline than this.

[3:05:54] We didn't have anything to work with.

[3:05:57] We had some old seawalls we could have kept,

[3:05:59] but they were like wood frame and framed up,

[3:06:01] and they were much worse than what we think is here.

[3:06:04] But I think this has kept the property intact with storms

[3:06:09] and stuff so far the seawall that's there.

[3:06:13] There has not been any major erosion.

[3:06:15] There's no wetlands on the site.

[3:06:17] Whereas the other one, we have no seawall,

[3:06:20] we had concrete foundations and stuff.

[3:06:21] And we actually would have to build a seawall

[3:06:24] on the other Shalimar project, the one we already bought.

[3:06:27] And that's going to be-- that's a major expense of that project.

[3:06:31] And that project is going upwards of $4 million

[3:06:32] because of things like a seawall that's not there, that we

[3:06:35] got to build from scratch.

[3:06:38] COMMISSIONER MIXON: So I think it's a great parcel.

[3:06:40] I got to ride my bike there as a kid many times.

[3:06:47] Tremendous, tremendous memories there.

[3:06:48] Great parcel.

[3:06:50] If it appraises, I feel much more confident

[3:06:55] in what we're doing.

[3:06:58] I would love to see a better number

[3:07:00] on what it's going to cost to make it a park.

[3:07:04] I'm not opposed to moving forward on it today.

[3:07:06] I am opposed to today being the end of all decisions

[3:07:09] from the commission moving forward.

[3:07:11] I don't think that's wise for us.

[3:07:15] There's much that could come.

[3:07:17] Comparing it to the other side of the bridge,

[3:07:20] there's some zoning differences.

[3:07:20] There's a parking difference, there's a traffic signal,

[3:07:23] there's direct access to the highway.

[3:07:25] It's not apples to apples.

[3:07:26] But looking at this for the future of the county

[3:07:29] and to have another resource there, it's wonderful.

[3:07:32] It would be great.

[3:07:34] I can't write off the idea of a blank check.

[3:07:38] I like the contingencies of a million and a half

[3:07:42] from the state, and a million and a half

[3:07:44] from Shalimar, because that puts us

[3:07:46] in at 50% both of them in at 25%.

[3:07:48] That's still going to be a lot of money,

[3:07:52] but if that seawall is irreparable or no good,

[3:07:54] that's going to go up incredibly,

[3:07:57] and it's going to go up fast.

[3:07:59] So it may have lasted storms in the past, that

[3:08:02] doesn't mean it would pass everything today

[3:08:04] in standards of construction.

[3:08:06] And so we need to be sure due diligence is done.

[3:08:09] I would love to see--

[3:08:11] if there's appetite for this, to see this come back

[3:08:14] after those due diligence items have taken place,

[3:08:17] just to give the confirmation that,

[3:08:19] hey, we're moving in a great direction.

[3:08:21] It appraised appropriately.

[3:08:22] That we were able to see that the seawall is going to make it,

[3:08:27] or at least it's going to cost a number that's

[3:08:29] within your budgeted window.

[3:08:29] And I know that's just a sketch on a piece of paper so far,

[3:08:34] but utilizing experts in those fields

[3:08:34] is going to help me feel more confident

[3:08:38] in the fiscal stewardship of the decision we're making.

[3:08:41] So I'd love to see us move forward on it today,

[3:08:45] but have a time where you come back

[3:08:47] as you check some of those boxes in the future.

[3:08:49] CRAIG COFFEY: I think you raised some very valid points, which

[3:08:52] you try when you enter an agreement to think

[3:08:55] of everything.

[3:08:55] And we'd be happy to report back on some of those items for sure.

[3:08:59] And I will tell you that the development of the park,

[3:09:04] we got some huge numbers for the development of the Southern

[3:09:10] portion, which kind of shocked us a little bit,

[3:09:13] and we'd be moving elements away.

[3:09:15] We think this is a better development to parcel,

[3:09:17] but I will tell you at the Colonel Bud Day Park

[3:09:22] that we worked hand in hand with Commissioner Goodwin on,

[3:09:24] we are-- and we're actually doing a Patriot Park.

[3:09:26] I think we're using that model a little different.

[3:09:29] We're going to build some things,

[3:09:31] and then we're going to contract out a bunch of things.

[3:09:35] But this idea of--

[3:09:35] even the ball fields up at BAYA, and the ball fields in Shalimar.

[3:09:40] We're getting away from trying to do one mass thing,

[3:09:45] because what we're finding is those prices are coming back

[3:09:48] in the millions, when we can do a hybrid,

[3:09:50] and it's actually coming together much more affordable,

[3:09:53] and we're actually getting better product

[3:09:56] and it's working out great.

[3:09:58] And that's the model Jeff and his team we've been working on.

[3:10:01] And I think that's what we're going

[3:10:04] to be trying to apply that a lot more to some of these projects.

[3:10:07] COMMISSIONER MIXON: If you're moving things from the South

[3:10:09] Side, would that mean some of the-- what

[3:10:11] some would interpret as commercial activities.

[3:10:12] CRAIG COFFEY: We are not proposing any--

[3:10:17] we did talk about a bait shop there or something like that.

[3:10:21] We're not proposing that to come up here,

[3:10:23] but I'm talking about more dockage

[3:10:25] to have some day use where you pull up and not camping, not

[3:10:30] staying there.

[3:10:31] Just pull up, enjoy the park and go back off there.

[3:10:34] But pavilions and trails and stuff

[3:10:35] like that, we probably envision this as more of just a pier

[3:10:39] park play.

[3:10:40] Commercial activity, we haven't really

[3:10:42] thought of anything for that.

[3:10:45] I don't want to mention the nasty word of food truck,

[3:10:50] but you could have a food truck every once in a while.

[3:10:53] COMMISSIONER MIXON: I don't mean to sound as the doomsdayist,

[3:10:55] but the legislature is discussing what they're

[3:10:57] doing with property taxes.

[3:10:59] CRAIG COFFEY: Yeah.

[3:11:00] COMMISSIONER MIXON: And it's been

[3:11:01] mentioned before that tourism tax would be touched.

[3:11:03] And we have to look at this with clear eyes.

[3:11:06] If we buy a piece of land and we have to maintain that

[3:11:09] as an essential function of government,

[3:11:11] sometimes it needs to be able to make its own resources,

[3:11:15] or you have to put it back out to the market

[3:11:20] because you can't afford to have it.

[3:11:21] And if we lose property taxes from rental homes,

[3:11:23] from everything every, every or none, it's going to make a hit.

[3:11:27] And if it hits the ballot, I'm afraid we will.

[3:11:31] And so I just want us to be aware of that on the front side.

[3:11:34] And Mayor Marks, this is a great thing

[3:11:37] and I look forward to the partnership with it.

[3:11:40] We've had some tremendous partnerships in the past.

[3:11:41] We loaned one municipality $10 million with no interest.

[3:11:44] We bought a municipality multiple sites on the Gulf front

[3:11:47] to be able to partner with them on parks,

[3:11:50] put the property in their name, and now we're bad partners.

[3:11:53] I mean, it really begins to deteriorate in a hurry,

[3:11:55] and I want to be sure from the beginning,

[3:11:59] we're having good open communication

[3:11:59] and that we're not leaving out any possibilities of what

[3:12:02] the future could hold.

[3:12:04] CRAIG COFFEY: And I would pride myself

[3:12:06] on having good open communications with all

[3:12:09] the partners we've had.

[3:12:10] We've had some great interlockers, like I said.

[3:12:12] I will tell you that you raise a very valid point,

[3:12:15] and I think we are looking at that in a broader sense.

[3:12:19] I know the property I brought to you at the last meeting,

[3:12:22] I think, the 1323 acres we're working with the state,

[3:12:24] I think that has the opportunity for some revenue

[3:12:27] potential in the form of camping and some stuff like that.

[3:12:30] Obviously, the Destin piece has a limited, at least

[3:12:32] to cover cost.

[3:12:33] So you have parks that at least can cover the cost,

[3:12:36] but some of those parks can actually--

[3:12:37] that revenue could be more in a broader pot, a park pot.

[3:12:41] And we even talked about paid parking, which was a champion.

[3:12:44] And direction by this board, we're working through that.

[3:12:47] That will-- essentially, could create a pot of money

[3:12:50] that helps eliminate some of the burden on the general fund

[3:12:54] if some of those parks are generating parking revenue

[3:12:58] from non-county residents.

[3:12:59] Let's clarify that again.

[3:13:01] So there is that potential, and I think

[3:13:04] we're always looking at that.

[3:13:08] Because of the size of this one--

[3:13:10] But I mean there's probably some things I'm not

[3:13:14] missing that someone can share with me,

[3:13:15] I'd be happy to consider all options

[3:13:17] in working with the town.

[3:13:19] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Chairman.

[3:13:20] [INAUDIBLE] So you've been here a long time

[3:13:22] like I have, and I know Mayor Franks.

[3:13:26] And that property, oddly, is higher than the other side

[3:13:28] and doesn't take on water.

[3:13:30] So that's been one good thing in terms of flooding

[3:13:33] when there's a hurricane.

[3:13:34] Even though we lost half of the Shalimar Bridge during Opal,

[3:13:38] I think it was, that particular parcel stayed high and dry.

[3:13:41] There is such an interest in this,

[3:13:46] that when I went back to Trumbull

[3:13:48] and asked for more than $1 million, he said,

[3:13:50] I'll do $1.5 million.

[3:13:51] And when I talked to Maney, he said,

[3:13:53] I'm going to try to find more money than that.

[3:13:56] So let's see what we get.

[3:13:57] And I think that today is an indication to the legislature

[3:14:01] that we want to move forward.

[3:14:02] If everything blows up, we bring it back and it blows up.

[3:14:06] But I'm encouraged right now that this

[3:14:07] is a once in a lifetime opportunity,

[3:14:09] and I really want us to see that we try.

[3:14:11] And this is such a beautiful piece of property

[3:14:15] that if in a couple of years it doesn't work for us,

[3:14:19] we can sell it and be ahead of the game anyway, I think,

[3:14:21] because like you say, they're not making any more waterfront

[3:14:24] property.

[3:14:24] But I hope that we never have to.

[3:14:26] I hope it becomes the most beautiful entrance to Shalimar.

[3:14:29] So thanks for consideration.

[3:14:30] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Commissioner Cox.

[3:14:34] COMMISSIONER COX: Thank you, Chairman.

[3:14:36] I had a question and then something to share, but--

[3:14:39] so do you happen to know off the top of your head

[3:14:43] how many linear feet of waterfront this is?

[3:14:45] CRAIG COFFEY: Oh, I would not be able to give you an accurate

[3:14:51] answer.

[3:14:51] I think it is much greater than across the way

[3:14:54] at the other park, because the other is just a straight shot,

[3:14:59] whereas this is a straight shot, it's actually,

[3:15:01] I think, longer and then it wraps around.

[3:15:03] So it's like the whole point there.

[3:15:05] COMMISSIONER COX: But it's a lot.

[3:15:08] I mean, I can see that it's a lot.

[3:15:11] And it's quasi improved property, right?

[3:15:11] It's already sort of fitted to be able to use.

[3:15:16] CRAIG COFFEY: Right.

[3:15:18] COMMISSIONER COX: Which brings forth half of what I'm

[3:15:21] about to say, and that is that I would

[3:15:24] hate for us to lose our footing in the bidding

[3:15:26] process toward this property because I

[3:15:30] do think it's a unique opportunity

[3:15:32] to acquire a piece of land for our citizens to enjoy,

[3:15:37] for visitors to enjoy, that we're not going

[3:15:39] to have a lot more of these.

[3:15:43] And yes, there will be property tax issues moving forward

[3:15:46] if property tax reform passes, but I

[3:15:48] feel like that's maybe even more onus

[3:15:52] to act-- to strike while the iron is hot,

[3:15:55] while we have the ability to partner with the legislature

[3:15:59] and the town of Shalimar to acquire something

[3:16:01] like this, of this size and magnitude and already quasi

[3:16:05] approved.

[3:16:07] I think it's something to not wait on,

[3:16:09] but I'll segue into the other part of this.

[3:16:13] Representative Maney talked to me,

[3:16:15] that you called me the other day and right off the bat,

[3:16:20] just because he's a high integrity individual, says,

[3:16:22] I'm calling as a concerned constituent.

[3:16:24] I'm not calling as your representative.

[3:16:27] [CHUCKLES] To say that, as somebody

[3:16:28] who's lived here for a very long time, who

[3:16:32] has served us in so many ways.

[3:16:33] He served us publicly.

[3:16:35] He served his nation.

[3:16:36] He served his country.

[3:16:37] He serves still, right?

[3:16:38] Retired many times over.

[3:16:41] Doesn't have to serve, but he does so for about $29,000

[3:16:45] a year, just so the public knows what they're getting in exchange

[3:16:48] for public service at the state level as a representative.

[3:16:51] It's not much, right?

[3:16:52] field, probably the same amount of tomatoes

[3:16:54] that we do up here on the dais.

[3:16:56] And he was very, very vested in this.

[3:16:58] He reiterated and we agree that this is a unique opportunity

[3:17:03] to provide something for our citizens

[3:17:06] that we may not come across again.

[3:17:07] And for that reason, I would very much like to move forward

[3:17:12] today on this in whatever capacity we need to.

[3:17:16] Thank you.

[3:17:18] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Other discussion.

[3:17:22] All right.

[3:17:24] Then I'll weigh in with some of my thoughts.

[3:17:26] So first of all, the idea of partnering

[3:17:28] with the town of Shalimar for a park at that location

[3:17:34] is very appealing.

[3:17:37] I really like it.

[3:17:40] It is a rare opportunity for Shalimar

[3:17:41] to have a really robust entry visual,

[3:17:47] and I think it does a couple of things.

[3:17:54] I kind of joked with the mayor.

[3:17:56] I said, well, Chief Jacobs won't have

[3:17:58] anywhere to tuck his car and run radar if we clear all the stuff.

[3:18:02] But it's OK, he'll find another spot.

[3:18:03] And we love you, Jacobs.

[3:18:06] But in fact, I honked at him today

[3:18:10] as he was out in front of Shalimar Elementary

[3:18:13] waving to folks.

[3:18:15] So good for your town.

[3:18:17] But back to this parcel.

[3:18:18] So there's a couple things.

[3:18:22] One, I am concerned about some of the due diligence.

[3:18:25] And obviously, we take the due diligence very seriously.

[3:18:32] You talk about the seawalls, I haven't walked the parcel.

[3:18:36] I've watched the parcel over many years of my life.

[3:18:39] I haven't seen seawall work out there that I can remember,

[3:18:43] not as an adult at least.

[3:18:46] And so what that tells me is that is

[3:18:48] a most likely wooden seawall with some riprap in front

[3:18:51] of it, most likely.

[3:18:53] I don't know that for sure.

[3:18:55] Might even be creosote, it's so old.

[3:18:57] But I don't know, the dock looks like it's creosote piles.

[3:19:01] If it's creosote, it's probably in better shape

[3:19:05] than if it's just pressure treated,

[3:19:06] but regardless, it creates issues.

[3:19:07] If it's pressure treated, the seawall is probably junk.

[3:19:11] To the extent the water has touched it,

[3:19:14] I'm just going to tell you guys, over the past 20 years,

[3:19:17] the shipworms have gotten so bad in our community,

[3:19:19] it is unbelievable what they do to wood.

[3:19:22] That's as our salinities come up.

[3:19:24] I'm not a scientist, don't know what I'm talking about.

[3:19:27] I'm just telling you what I've observed.

[3:19:28] So we're probably going to have to do a seawall.

[3:19:31] If you want to know what seawall cost,

[3:19:32] just go look at the boat basin, that'll give you an idea.

[3:19:35] But that doesn't mean projects should be paralyzed,

[3:19:37] because we think that it's going to be expensive to do it right.

[3:19:42] So that's not a stopping point for me,

[3:19:44] it's just something we're going to have to work through.

[3:19:47] And we may get some additional tools, funding and things

[3:19:50] like that.

[3:19:52] All that will get worked out.

[3:19:54] We'll inspect it, we'll kick the tires

[3:19:57] and figure out what's going on with it.

[3:20:01] The issue that Commissioner Mixon brought up, I think

[3:20:06] is something we could bake into the contract right now.

[3:20:10] And since it's not signed by the other side,

[3:20:14] obviously, we've got a motion and a second.

[3:20:16] But if it were appealing, we could easily

[3:20:18] amend it to make sure that those contingencies, the due

[3:20:21] diligence, and I can't tell you I've got them memorized

[3:20:25] because I don't have a photographic memory,

[3:20:27] but they've got things in there like appraisal, condition,

[3:20:30] suitability, whatever it says, whatever lens looked at and said

[3:20:33] is reasonable.

[3:20:35] I would hope we.

[3:20:38] We could add to that contingency,

[3:20:41] that the contingencies are only relieved after they've

[3:20:43] been brought back, the board has been briefed,

[3:20:46] and the board has agreed that the contingencies have

[3:20:48] been satisfied.

[3:20:49] That would give us the second bite,

[3:20:51] I think we can bake it in now.

[3:20:53] I mean, John could come back and say--

[3:20:55] I'm saying John, Mr. Dowd could come back and say, oh,

[3:20:58] that's not what I told you.

[3:21:00] Why would you send this to me?

[3:21:02] At this purchase price, I don't think

[3:21:04] it's going to kick back too hard, frankly.

[3:21:06] And that kind of brings me to the second thing.

[3:21:11] So I guess before I leave that I'll say,

[3:21:13] I'd really love to see that as a friendly Amendment

[3:21:16] that the board gets to vote on whether the contingencies have

[3:21:18] been satisfied.

[3:21:19] I really think that's important.

[3:21:22] Now the price.

[3:21:24] The price is a little bit--

[3:21:28] is a little bit on the aggressive side in my opinion,

[3:21:33] but I am not a property appraiser,

[3:21:35] I am not a real estate broker, I'm

[3:21:38] not even a real estate agent.

[3:21:39] So what I'm telling-- what I'm saying comes

[3:21:42] from my general layman's perspectives

[3:21:44] on valuation, which are not evidence of value,

[3:21:48] it's just my feeling based on my observations.

[3:21:52] It seems high.

[3:21:54] Now there was a question about how much waterfront there is.

[3:21:58] There's a lot, and that makes this unique.

[3:22:00] In fact, and I'll just be honest,

[3:22:02] I've had a discussion with some folks

[3:22:04] over at the town of Shalimar, and we were

[3:22:06] kind of kicking back around.

[3:22:06] They have the price, but then where do you find this?

[3:22:09] And so it makes actually finding comps on it difficult,

[3:22:12] and I think we'll find our appraisers have

[3:22:15] that same challenge.

[3:22:16] They'll probably include something

[3:22:17] about that in their narrative when

[3:22:19] they give us their appraisals.

[3:22:21] That it's not like you can find 10 of these and say,

[3:22:24] well, you average out the price of the last 10

[3:22:26] of these things that sold in the last 18 months, and here you go.

[3:22:30] It's not going to be that easy.

[3:22:32] It does have, according to Matt Busby, our property appraiser,

[3:22:34] 235 foot of linear water frontage.

[3:22:37] That's significant.

[3:22:40] And so I think that really makes it

[3:22:44] prime for a water-based park like this.

[3:22:45] I really do like that.

[3:22:50] But on the price, the thing that's giving me consternation

[3:22:54] is a couple things.

[3:22:58] So I have the opportunity to sit on the value adjustment

[3:23:01] board for a number of years as Commissioner Mixon.

[3:23:04] And many of those years, Mr. Dowd

[3:23:07] has challenged Matt Busby's valuation,

[3:23:10] saying that Matt Busby's valuations were far too high.

[3:23:14] However, I look at Matt Busby's valuations on this parcel

[3:23:19] and it's $1.5 million.

[3:23:20] I know that that's typically coming in less transaction

[3:23:26] costs, so you can--

[3:23:28] I think the rule of thumb is you can take what Matt Busby says,

[3:23:32] divide it by 0.85 and get what you would think

[3:23:35] is a true market sales price.

[3:23:36] That gets you to $1.76 million. $3 million is a big lift.

[3:23:40] Now, if I'm not paying it, not my money,

[3:23:45] I can get everybody else to buy it for me, maybe that's fine.

[3:23:50] But it does cause me a little bit of heartache on the, well,

[3:23:55] even if it's not my money, if it's anybody's money

[3:23:59] that was generated from tax revenue,

[3:24:00] am I supposed to be a good steward?

[3:24:03] I have to wrangle with that.

[3:24:05] At the same time, you've got this idea,

[3:24:06] I don't want to lose it.

[3:24:09] So this is where I would be on it.

[3:24:11] If I've got the backstop of the appraisal, the due diligence

[3:24:16] and some discretionary exit ramps

[3:24:18] for this board in the contract, that brings it back to the board

[3:24:25] to let me get off the train if I decide this is not

[3:24:29] the right deal, then I would be comfortable

[3:24:30] going forward at this number.

[3:24:35] And let me explain.

[3:24:36] I made those comments about Matt Busby and his price.

[3:24:39] I mean, Mr. Dowd does a good job for his clients.

[3:24:42] He does exactly what he's hired to do.

[3:24:43] I'm not suggesting-- I'm just saying,

[3:24:44] Matt Busby's valuation isn't a junk number.

[3:24:47] It's got something.

[3:24:49] It's not necessarily a sales price,

[3:24:51] but usually you're going to see 20%, 30%, something like that.

[3:24:54] I mean, this is close to double.

[3:24:58] Which could happen.

[3:24:59] I'm not saying it couldn't happen.

[3:25:00] Just a little unusual.

[3:25:02] That's why I would like a little bit

[3:25:04] more protection for the board to come and take a look at it.

[3:25:07] I recognize it's unique.

[3:25:07] I recognize that three million might turn out to be justified,

[3:25:11] and that we can get the funding sources to do it,

[3:25:14] and I can wrap my mind around that for sure.

[3:25:16] But I think I'd be dishonest to myself and to those

[3:25:22] I serve if I didn't express some concerns about the purchase

[3:25:27] price, and making sure that we've got those protections

[3:25:30] in place moving forward.

[3:25:32] So as the motion sits, it's not my favorite,

[3:25:35] if it were amended to give the board the ability

[3:25:39] to weigh in on the contingencies at another time,

[3:25:42] I'd be very, very inclined to vote yes.

[3:25:45] But that's just where I am.

[3:25:47] COMMISSIONER PALMER: Mr. Chairman,

[3:25:48] may I just ask a very quick question,

[3:25:50] because I'm agreeable to amending my second if--

[3:25:52] but first, I wanted to say, wouldn't the contingencies

[3:25:56] already be something that would have

[3:25:58] to be met in order for this contract to move forward?

[3:26:01] CRAIG COFFEY: That's correct.

[3:26:02] And--

[3:26:02] COMMISSIONER PALMER: So I don't know that it's necessary--

[3:26:04] CRAIG COFFEY: But he's talking about bringing it back

[3:26:06] to the board, which is a little bit of a twist on that.

[3:26:08] And I will say that I know that Mr. Busby's probably assessment

[3:26:10] of it as a single family lot like it's

[3:26:15] been for 40 or 50 years.

[3:26:17] I'm not sure it takes into account highest and best use,

[3:26:19] which would be parceling that up into waterfront lots and stuff

[3:26:22] like that.

[3:26:23] I think that would be a much different number than what

[3:26:26] we're talking about.

[3:26:26] And the last thing I'd caution the board

[3:26:28] or mention to the board, that if we go forward today

[3:26:31] and the legislature were able to allocate $1.5 million,

[3:26:33] it would be hard for us then to say, hey, we're just kidding.

[3:26:39] Don't take the money.

[3:26:41] I just say that for a specific-- the reason

[3:26:45] it's being brought today and not-- it was rushed,

[3:26:48] but it was why session was still in play.

[3:26:52] So that if the board said no, we could go to them

[3:26:55] and not have egg on our face and say, pull this out.

[3:26:58] But the idea of us bringing it today

[3:27:00] is that we bring it to the legislature

[3:27:01] and say, include it in the governor's budget

[3:27:03] and follow it through.

[3:27:04] That's going to be a challenge for us if we pull out later.

[3:27:09] I'm just saying.

[3:27:09] And the due diligence will be 90 days.

[3:27:12] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Per the packet, it

[3:27:14] went to the legislature on January 5.

[3:27:15] CRAIG COFFEY: That's correct.

[3:27:17] And that was correct.

[3:27:19] COMMISSIONER MIXON: This is March.

[3:27:21] CRAIG COFFEY: Right.

[3:27:22] I understand that was at the request of Commissioner Ketchel.

[3:27:25] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Ms. Cox?

[3:27:29] COMMISSIONER COX: So I appreciate you bringing that up

[3:27:31] because representative Maney mentioned

[3:27:34] that he's going to take another swing at asking

[3:27:38] for these funds for this parcel.

[3:27:41] And if-- I mean, we know that they have allocations, yes?

[3:27:45] So do we understand that money has not been secured as of yet?

[3:27:52] CRAIG COFFEY: That's baked in the contingency, correct.

[3:27:56] We understand where the budget sits.

[3:27:58] We understand that is a contingency because it's not

[3:28:01] a given, there's a lot of horse trading

[3:28:04] that occurs between now and the end of session for sure.

[3:28:06] COMMISSIONER COX: But for sure, in order for us

[3:28:08] to move forward and request that the legislature fund this,

[3:28:10] we need to approve this today.

[3:28:15] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Correct.

[3:28:15] COMMISSIONER COX: That is the understanding.

[3:28:16] Do we all understand that?

[3:28:18] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Correct.

[3:28:19] That is correct.

[3:28:21] And the other thing is that if the $1,5 million or $2 million,

[3:28:24] that they might be able to pledge towards this,

[3:28:27] we then would owe a million plus the closing cost.

[3:28:30] So I feel very comfortable with this,

[3:28:32] and I think our constituents would

[3:28:36] be thrilled in the long run, because they're

[3:28:38] going to see the beauty of this park as opposed

[3:28:40] to whatever else would replace it.

[3:28:41] But if that's the only way, I think

[3:28:44] we've got the votes to go forward, I can count to three.

[3:28:48] But if you want me to add that for a safeguard, Chairman,

[3:28:52] I'll consider it.

[3:28:54] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Well, and I know

[3:28:56] you're addressing my comments.

[3:28:57] That's all I'm looking for, is safeguards and exit ramps for--

[3:29:00] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Exit ramps, yeah.

[3:29:03] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: --for safety, not for leverage.

[3:29:05] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Right.

[3:29:07] So, if it didn't come through, if the legislative money didn't

[3:29:10] come through, we would not want to come up with $3 million.

[3:29:13] So I get that.

[3:29:14] OK, so in that case, I'll amend my motion

[3:29:17] to go along with what you're suggesting, the contingency.

[3:29:19] COMMISSIONER PALMER: [INAUDIBLE]

[3:29:21] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Further discussion or are we ready to--

[3:29:26] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: I just want

[3:29:27] to thank Mr. Coffey for his unbelievably long hours

[3:29:30] and work on this.

[3:29:31] It's not easy.

[3:29:32] The first parcel that we bought, we went after it every five--

[3:29:36] every year, I would call the owner, every single year.

[3:29:39] And I said to Judy, it's time to call her again.

[3:29:44] And we couldn't get her.

[3:29:45] So Judy called her husband and she died the day before,

[3:29:48] and he lowered the price so that we could get that property

[3:29:53] on the other side.

[3:29:53] Now, this one is--

[3:29:54] that one was going for close to--

[3:29:57] I think she asked for $1.5 million, wasn't it?

[3:30:00] So this one's a larger parcel and a higher piece of land.

[3:30:03] And beautiful trees.

[3:30:04] And the other one doesn't have it so.

[3:30:08] And we will not clearcut those.

[3:30:09] COMMISSIONER COX: So is the--

[3:30:11] I'm sorry, just for clarification,

[3:30:12] if I may Chairman.

[3:30:13] So this is to approve the item with the contingencies

[3:30:17] that we get funding from the legislature,

[3:30:25] or it's that the property meets appraisal?

[3:30:28] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: It comes back to the board.

[3:30:31] LYNN HOSHIHARA: But both are listed

[3:30:35] as contingencies in the purchase and sale agreement.

[3:30:37] COMMISSIONER COX: OK.

[3:30:38] CRAIG COFFEY: We actually have the appraisal,

[3:30:42] the legislative money in our local town of Shalimar,

[3:30:45] plus a due diligence, which I think Commissioner Mixon touched

[3:30:48] upon, which would be inspecting the seawall

[3:30:51] and investigating the site for any other problems

[3:30:54] or creosol posts or whatever, we'd

[3:30:55] look at those kind of things.

[3:30:58] LYNN HOSHIHARA: Yes, in addition to the section on contingencies,

[3:31:00] there's also a provision about suitability and feasibility.

[3:31:02] CRAIG COFFEY: Correct.

[3:31:04] LYNN HOSHIHARA: To make sure--

[3:31:05] CRAIG COFFEY: For almost any reason.

[3:31:05] LYNN HOSHIHARA: Right, for the county's use, and then

[3:31:07] with Commissioner Goodwin's Amendment,

[3:31:08] which was to include that those contingencies and requirements

[3:31:11] be later approved by the board as having been satisfied.

[3:31:16] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Yeah, just to clarify,

[3:31:18] and I'll use an example to make it clear.

[3:31:21] We've got some suitability and condition studies.

[3:31:23] I don't want-- I'm not asking Craig to decide

[3:31:28] if he likes the seawall.

[3:31:29] Ask us if you like the seawall.

[3:31:31] That's what I'm saying.

[3:31:33] And well, within reason, based on his inspection,

[3:31:35] he'll show it to us.

[3:31:37] We'll say, yeah, we think that's fine.

[3:31:38] We want to move forward.

[3:31:40] Keep going or not.

[3:31:40] Those in favor.

[3:31:47] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Aye.

[3:31:48] COMMISSIONER COX: Aye.

[3:31:48] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Aye.

[3:31:49] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Those opposed.

[3:31:49] All right.

[3:31:50] That passes unanimously.

[3:31:51] Good job, Craig.

[3:31:53] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Mr. Chairman.

[3:31:54] Mr. Chairman, just procedurally, I'd

[3:31:56] like to ask a question as you move to the next item.

[3:32:00] I saw the packet, I saw the addition of the application

[3:32:04] within the packet, but it didn't make our state

[3:32:08] legislative agenda.

[3:32:09] Should we have formally added that as an action of the board?

[3:32:14] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: It probably

[3:32:17] would have been stronger.

[3:32:19] COMMISSIONER COX: What was the question?

[3:32:21] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Well, we submitted--

[3:32:22] I'm sorry.

[3:32:23] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: No, go ahead.

[3:32:24] COMMISSIONER MIXON: We submitted an application for that funding

[3:32:26] from the state as a board, but the board, to my knowledge,

[3:32:29] and I may just not be remembering that, never took

[3:32:34] public action to submit that.

[3:32:35] But we've got to see it today.

[3:32:39] And it was submitted back in January,

[3:32:40] but it wasn't something we all did.

[3:32:42] It sounds like it was something singularly on all of our--

[3:32:45] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Craig, can you speak to that?

[3:32:48] CRAIG COFFEY: Just there was a deadline associated with that.

[3:32:54] I was asked to put something like that in.

[3:32:57] I've been asked in the past from other commissioners to do that.

[3:32:59] I remember some from Commissioner Boyles

[3:33:01] back when I was doing legislative items.

[3:33:03] And it wasn't ripe to bring forward yet

[3:33:05] because we didn't think it was.

[3:33:10] But Commissioner Mixon raises a good point.

[3:33:11] And that's one of the things that was a challenge for us.

[3:33:15] Anytime we have a one individual in the board.

[3:33:17] COMMISSIONER MIXON: This is the fifth meeting

[3:33:19] since that was submitted.

[3:33:20] And--

[3:33:22] CRAIG COFFEY: Yes, sir.

[3:33:24] COMMISSIONER MIXON: --I think it's very inappropriate

[3:33:25] that it was submitted as though the five of us

[3:33:28] were moving forward on an item that the five of us

[3:33:30] were not informed of, or not in knowledge of.

[3:33:34] Definitely didn't have an opportunity

[3:33:36] to speak to it publicly.

[3:33:38] And it sounds like a lot of work went into it.

[3:33:40] I just think we can do better as a group, working as a group.

[3:33:44] Thanks.

[3:33:45] LYNN HOSHIHARA: All right.

[3:33:47] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Point taken, Mr. Coffey.

[3:33:49] Does that make sense?

[3:33:50] CRAIG COFFEY: Yes, sir.

[3:33:52] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[3:33:53] CRAIG COFFEY: Yeah.

[3:33:54] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you.

[3:33:55] All right, Mr. Autrey.

[3:33:58] JASON AUTREY: Good afternoon.

[3:34:02] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Hello.

[3:34:02] JASON AUTREY: Good afternoon.

[3:34:04] Jason Autrey.

[3:34:04] I have a wonderful item here.

[3:34:06] So I would like to recognize the city manager

[3:34:08] for Niceville, Dave Deitch.

[3:34:10] He's hung in there like a hair in a biscuit,

[3:34:13] to use a wonderful Southern expression for this item.

[3:34:14] We are working on Meigs Park in the city of Niceville.

[3:34:18] This is a special needs park that back when

[3:34:20] President Ponder was on the council,

[3:34:21] he was a huge advocate for, and we have an allocation

[3:34:24] from the state to build a special needs park in Niceville.

[3:34:28] The city of Niceville has kindly offered up a piece of property,

[3:34:31] and we've received our bids in.

[3:34:33] They came in a little bit higher than expected,

[3:34:35] and what we've got is an interlocal agreement Amendment

[3:34:37] for the funding towards this project.

[3:34:39] In total, this is a $3.4 million project that we're constructing.

[3:34:43] It's a special needs ball field.

[3:34:46] It's got a special needs playground, has some pavilions

[3:34:47] and restrooms area out there, some open fields as well,

[3:34:50] along with stormwater and parking improvements out there.

[3:34:52] It's a phenomenal facility.

[3:34:53] In fact, just yesterday, David sent an email to me

[3:34:56] regarding a citizen that has a child with special needs

[3:34:59] that has offered to put a sign out there that's a picture

[3:35:03] board that allows that child to communicate with parents

[3:35:07] and other children that are out there.

[3:35:09] Really excited to see this move forward.

[3:35:10] We've extended the agreement to add additional funds and its TDD

[3:35:13] based on our side.

[3:35:14] The city has found funds to put into it as well.

[3:35:17] We'd like to execute this interlocal agreement so that we

[3:35:19] can move forward with the construction of this fantastic

[3:35:21] park with the city of Niceville.

[3:35:23] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Make a motion to approve.

[3:35:25] COMMISSIONER COX: Second.

[3:35:26] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Wow, that was fast.

[3:35:28] I'm going to give that one to Commissioner Cox on the second.

[3:35:31] So motion and a second to approve.

[3:35:33] Further discussion.

[3:35:34] All those in favor, please signal by saying Aye.

[3:35:38] COMMISSIONER COX: Aye.

[3:35:39] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Aye.

[3:35:39] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Aye.

[3:35:40] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: And those against.

[3:35:41] All right.

[3:35:41] That passes unanimously.

[3:35:42] JASON AUTREY: Again, thank you to City Manager Dietch

[3:35:45] for his help with this effort as well.

[3:35:46] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[3:35:47] So it's our final public comment opportunity.

[3:35:49] I've got four cards.

[3:35:51] First speaker, Mr. Nicholas Smith.

[3:36:07] NICHOLAS SMITH: Good afternoon, Chairman, Commissioners.

[3:36:15] Thank you all for allowing us to speak today.

[3:36:18] I can't help but acknowledge--

[3:36:21] I understand that there are policy and procedure and decorum

[3:36:24] that this board has to enforce, but I stood back there

[3:36:27] for 15 minutes with my hand raised

[3:36:29] on an item up on the consent agenda

[3:36:32] that I turned in my speaker card before the public comment

[3:36:36] segment occurred and before that first public comment

[3:36:39] segment ended, but you all just looked at me

[3:36:43] like I wasn't even there.

[3:36:48] What representation does the people of this county

[3:36:51] have that would just sit there and look at a citizen

[3:36:55] and not even acknowledge.

[3:36:56] Sir, we see you.

[3:36:59] Just hold on a little bit longer.

[3:37:04] Yes, Chairman?

[3:37:06] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Pause this time.

[3:37:07] Did you not talk to Ms. Sharon about that issue?

[3:37:12] I thought we did make contact because we did see you.

[3:37:17] NICHOLAS SMITH: Chairman, that was 10 to 15--

[3:37:20] it felt like 10 to 15 minutes later.

[3:37:22] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: But we did contact you about it

[3:37:27] and I'm asked--

[3:37:28] I'm looking at our PIO, he's saying he didn't have the cards.

[3:37:32] I get the cards from him.

[3:37:33] I don't-- there's no gamesmanship, I promise.

[3:37:35] We get the cards, we got to stop it

[3:37:38] at some point, that's why we'll open the second opportunity.

[3:37:41] It's not meant to quiet anybody's voice, I promise.

[3:37:44] NICHOLAS SMITH: I understand, Mr. Chairman.

[3:37:45] There's nothing in your 2017 Policy

[3:37:47] and Procedures regarding the meetings.

[3:37:50] There's nothing in the 2022 version of the Policy

[3:37:53] and Procedures governing the meetings

[3:37:55] that establishes a cutoff time.

[3:37:57] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: OK well, I appreciate you bringing that up.

[3:38:00] Nick, will you get with Lynn and let's look at that

[3:38:03] and make sure that it's clear.

[3:38:03] I agree with you, we need clear rules.

[3:38:05] And if there's something that's missing

[3:38:06] on what the procedure is, thank you for bringing that up.

[3:38:09] We'll make sure that everything's clear,

[3:38:10] because it needs to be clear, just like you point out.

[3:38:13] NICHOLAS SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[3:38:15] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Yes, sir.

[3:38:16] All right.

[3:38:17] And when you start, Nick start your time back.

[3:38:20] I didn't want to burn your time on what I was saying.

[3:38:23] NICHOLAS SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[3:38:25] I'm not irritated or frustrated, it's just a repeated--

[3:38:27] repeated events, that it's not the first time

[3:38:32] that I've been ignored by members of this board.

[3:38:37] Today is March 3, 2026.

[3:38:40] On January 17, I submitted a request to this board

[3:38:46] to every member, but I still have not heard anything back.

[3:38:50] And still to this day, I don't know

[3:38:53] why I'm still sitting here hearing agendas being put forth.

[3:38:55] Hey, the only voice that's being represented

[3:38:59] are the people or the organizations that have money.

[3:39:03] And please forgive me for the term that I'm about to use,

[3:39:08] but that is piss-poor representation.

[3:39:09] You have families in this county who are being falsely arrested,

[3:39:16] and you sit here and respond about dogs, about pigs running

[3:39:20] around on private property.

[3:39:23] You have families, careers that are being torn apart.

[3:39:26] You have citizens being falsely accused of trespass with friends

[3:39:32] by the elected Sheriff of this county,

[3:39:36] and neither one of the board-- of the members of this board

[3:39:40] have addressed that.

[3:39:42] Why wouldn't you want to address the harm being

[3:39:45] done to your constituents?

[3:39:47] I'm even going off of script here,

[3:39:52] but I definitely think that it's OK and that it's warranted.

[3:39:56] We have war going on with Iran right now,

[3:39:58] but there's war going on in Okaloosa County,

[3:40:01] and I am appalled that you all would sit here and bring forth

[3:40:05] upon the citizens talking about water contamination

[3:40:07] from Alabama, talking about dogs and pigs.

[3:40:12] But you have this gentleman in the back that has brought forth

[3:40:18] a clear concern about his life being

[3:40:21] put in jeopardy at your jail, but yet he

[3:40:25] has been cut off from explaining what happened to him.

[3:40:30] And I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, that I'm going over time,

[3:40:34] but when are you going to inspect your hearts to represent

[3:40:38] the people of this county?

[3:40:45] I'm not a millionaire.

[3:40:48] I don't have money.

[3:40:50] My credit score is probably below 500 right now.

[3:40:53] My house might be repossessed.

[3:40:57] I might have to sell my vehicles.

[3:41:00] And you know why I might have to do that?

[3:41:03] Anybody want to take a guess.

[3:41:05] Commissioner Mixon?

[3:41:05] No?

[3:41:07] November 20 of 2023, I went to Toyota

[3:41:10] of Fort Walton Beach, Florida.

[3:41:14] And would you guess what happened?

[3:41:16] The finance manager, Timothy James Webster,

[3:41:18] forged my signature on an auto loan pre-approval check

[3:41:21] from Navy Federal Credit Union.

[3:41:23] And would you like to guess what happened

[3:41:26] when I reported it to the Okaloosa County Sheriff's

[3:41:28] Office?

[3:41:28] The responding deputy, Deputy Jill Hagen.

[3:41:31] I am thankful he did an outstanding job.

[3:41:34] So I would like to give a public shout out

[3:41:38] to Deputy Andrew Jill Hagen.

[3:41:40] But the next morning, I took it upon my own initiative

[3:41:45] to go to the Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office headquarters

[3:41:48] and request a preliminary report of the investigation.

[3:41:52] And that's when investigator Michael Watts came down.

[3:41:56] Investigator Michael Watts never went to the dealership

[3:42:00] to review the security camera footage.

[3:42:02] He never spoke to anybody at the dealership.

[3:42:05] But what he did do was review the evidence that I submitted,

[3:42:11] the forged signature evidence.

[3:42:14] He reviewed the body cam footage.

[3:42:16] And would you like to know what else he did?

[3:42:19] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Not really.

[3:42:20] This is not within the purview of the County Commission.

[3:42:22] I appreciate you being able to get it all off your chest.

[3:42:25] I'm just really confused as to why the chairman is continuing

[3:42:27] to allow you to go on.

[3:42:28] NICHOLAS SMITH: And I'm respectfully

[3:42:28] saying that article 125, Subsection S,

[3:42:31] allows the County Commission to investigate County affairs.

[3:42:36] This is within your county.

[3:42:39] It is selective Non-enforcement.

[3:42:41] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: No.

[3:42:43] NICHOLAS SMITH: And I emailed you

[3:42:44] about it, Commissioner Mixon, but you deleted the email.

[3:42:46] I'm wondering why.

[3:42:47] Because you already knew.

[3:42:48] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Because you send group emails

[3:42:50] and that violates the sunshine.

[3:42:51] NICHOLAS SMITH: It does not.

[3:42:52] COMMISSIONER MIXON: OK.

[3:42:53] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Hang on.

[3:42:54] NICHOLAS SMITH: It makes sure that every member is aware.

[3:42:55] Commissioner, I appreciate your time,

[3:42:56] and it's about time that you all get a backbone

[3:42:59] and stand up for your community.

[3:43:00] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[3:43:01] NICHOLAS SMITH: Thank you.

[3:43:02] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[3:43:03] Ms. Watkins.

[3:43:18] PAT WATKINS: My name is Pat Watkins.

[3:43:26] I live at 6087 Bud Moulton Road in the county.

[3:43:29] I was going to speak about item number two

[3:43:34] in the consent agenda, but you all pulled it.

[3:43:38] Thank you very much.

[3:43:40] So now I have to go to plan B.

[3:43:42] [CHUCKLING]

[3:43:42] Thank you to Commissioner Ketchel

[3:43:44] and to Commissioner Palmer for responding to my emails.

[3:43:48] I wrote to every one of you and those two responded.

[3:43:53] Thank you for removing item 2 from the agenda.

[3:43:57] Commissioner Ketchel and many citizens

[3:44:00] have repeatedly called for an end

[3:44:03] to unrestricted clearing of land in our county,

[3:44:06] i.e. clearcutting, which is what this item 2 would have allowed

[3:44:11] to occur in our county.

[3:44:16] I find it difficult to believe that land that has been clear

[3:44:21] cut for development, did not contain protected trees,

[3:44:23] at least one as defined in our land development code 6.05.03.

[3:44:29] Since you pulled this item number 2,

[3:44:36] now is an opportunity to work together with the citizens

[3:44:39] and amend this land development code.

[3:44:43] Perhaps a committee of commissioners and citizens

[3:44:46] can meet and work together.

[3:44:51] This topic needs clarification so that everyone

[3:44:54] will be on the same page concerning

[3:44:58] clear cutting and protection of trees,

[3:45:01] and our precious environment.

[3:45:06] We the citizens half standing and want to work with you.

[3:45:10] We have standing in how our county is being developed.

[3:45:15] So please form a committee with citizens and you

[3:45:18] all so that we can work on clarification

[3:45:23] of this land development code.

[3:45:25] Thank you.

[3:45:26] I did not use my three minutes.

[3:45:28] Bye.

[3:45:28] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you.

[3:45:30] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Chairman, may I just say one quick thing?

[3:45:32] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: OK.

[3:45:32] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: I know it's been a long day.

[3:45:34] Ms. Watkins, thank you for continuing to advocate for this.

[3:45:36] I recently learned that Leon County--

[3:45:38] I think I'm correct.

[3:45:40] --they have a tree ordinance that allows

[3:45:43] that trees are not clear cut.

[3:45:45] And if that's true, I'd like to look at that, Ms. Hoshihara,

[3:45:48] and see about maybe modeling it.

[3:45:50] I know we're all over the board on this.

[3:45:53] There's some that are for clear cutting and others who are not,

[3:45:56] but I'd like to look at it because they have

[3:45:59] gorgeous trees in Tallahassee.

[3:45:59] They're old trees that have been there for a long time.

[3:46:03] What I call legacy trees, not just dogwood,

[3:46:04] but the beautiful old live oaks.

[3:46:07] PAT WATKINS: You're absolutely right,

[3:46:08] Tallahassee and Leon County does have gorgeous trees.

[3:46:10] So does Gainesville and Alachua County.

[3:46:13] Those counties have tree ordinances,

[3:46:15] and I think that maybe we can read them and if not, model

[3:46:20] our land development code after them.

[3:46:27] Maybe.

[3:46:28] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Well, let me--

[3:46:30] I appreciate that and we'll look at it but--

[3:46:32] and I understand what you're saying.

[3:46:33] But I'm going to tell you something.

[3:46:35] This is my perspective.

[3:46:36] If we start modeling our code after Alachua County and Leon

[3:46:39] County, they'll be commissioners gone quicker

[3:46:41] than you can say goodbye.

[3:46:43] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: I mean, I know

[3:46:44] we're on polar opposites on that issue, Chairman, but I--

[3:46:47] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: If we joined forces on that,

[3:46:51] we'll be out of here.

[3:46:52] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Well, we can find middle ground.

[3:46:53] We always do.

[3:46:54] We always do.

[3:46:54] I mean, I know that Leon is--

[3:46:56] what he's implying is Alachua and Leon are very Democratic

[3:47:00] and we're very Republican.

[3:47:01] I get it, red and--

[3:47:02] but still, trees, to me, fall somewhere

[3:47:04] in between all of that.

[3:47:07] I mean, they're beautiful.

[3:47:08] And I hate when you have these gorgeous woods

[3:47:11] and they're just flattened.

[3:47:12] PAT WATKINS: Exactly.

[3:47:13] Thank you very much.

[3:47:15] Have a good day.

[3:47:16] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: But let me--

[3:47:18] and Ms. Hoshihara brought something up.

[3:47:20] She reminded that SB 180 is still there.

[3:47:23] Let's be clear, I think I kind of got my point across earlier

[3:47:27] with the speaker.

[3:47:28] I think we're talking about two different things.

[3:47:31] One, clear cutting for new subdivisions

[3:47:33] versus clearing land that's not going to be subdivided.

[3:47:37] They're two different things.

[3:47:39] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Versus a tree ordinance.

[3:47:41] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Versus a tree ordinance.

[3:47:43] COMMISSIONER MIXON: Telling a neighbor what

[3:47:44] tree they can trim, what tree they can't, what

[3:47:45] tree they can move, What tree--

[3:47:46] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Right.

[3:47:47] COMMISSIONER MIXON: We're getting

[3:47:47] into dangerous territory.

[3:47:47] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Correct.

[3:47:48] COMMISSIONER MIXON: This was too vague.

[3:47:50] Thankfully, it was removed today and it'll have more study.

[3:47:52] 18 months, it was mentioned earlier, is too short.

[3:47:54] Anybody that's going to buy property can wait 18 months.

[3:47:57] After they clear it, we don't want to see that.

[3:47:59] We need a longer period of time.

[3:48:01] But there's got to be a lot more work that's

[3:48:03] put into it than just what we were presented.

[3:48:04] Thankfully, it was pulled and I know it'll come back

[3:48:07] and we'll have those discussions,

[3:48:07] and they'll be great discussions.

[3:48:09] But if I go out and decide I want

[3:48:11] to take a portion of our land and put some trees,

[3:48:13] I want to be able to do that for agriculture purposes.

[3:48:16] At the same time, I don't want my neighboring property

[3:48:18] that I don't own to be able to do that,

[3:48:22] just to hold for 18 months, to be able to put a subdivision

[3:48:24] and make it easier in their development process.

[3:48:25] We can't just trust in the moral fibers of man

[3:48:28] because they're missing a lot of their moral fibers.

[3:48:30] And so we have to be able to have some rules and regulations

[3:48:34] that do allow that, but we've got to stay very cautiously away

[3:48:36] from Leon and Alachua and the tree ordinance,

[3:48:39] because they go very far into what you can do and what you

[3:48:43] can't.

[3:48:43] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: I know what you're saying,

[3:48:44] but the subdivision that your parents and I live

[3:48:46] in, it was not clear cut.

[3:48:48] And those beautiful old oaks are what

[3:48:50] made me buy there 40 years ago.

[3:48:52] And I love it.

[3:48:53] And it's beautiful.

[3:48:54] And I would hope that we can find a compromise.

[3:48:56] And I do understand what you're saying.

[3:48:57] And I'm not a Democrat.

[3:48:59] And I'm not a tree hugger, I just think some of these trees

[3:49:02] are beautiful.

[3:49:02] I know the implication men.

[3:49:03] [CHUCKLING]

[3:49:04] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Some of us just have a chainsaw

[3:49:10] in the garage and feel the need to use it every now and then.

[3:49:14] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: Private property, have at it.

[3:49:15] [LAUGHTER]

[3:49:15] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Mr. Perry.

[3:49:18] PAT WATKINS: One second.

[3:49:21] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Well, hold on.

[3:49:22] PAT WATKINS: I just hope we can come to a happy medium

[3:49:26] and save some of our heritage trees

[3:49:27] and not clearcut everything on every residential subdivision

[3:49:30] that we--

[3:49:33] that we see today.

[3:49:34] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: I think everybody is probably

[3:49:36] on board with that.

[3:49:38] We don't want to-- there's trees everybody wants to save,

[3:49:40] but the last thing we want to do is have somebody

[3:49:43] with a measuring tape and a pocket protector

[3:49:44] telling us that we can't take down that little scrub

[3:49:50] thing over there.

[3:49:50] So anyway, Mr. Perry [INAUDIBLE].

[3:49:52] STEVE PERRY: Well, it's been a long time,

[3:49:55] and I watched two weeks ago, and it was extremely long then, too.

[3:49:58] So I'm going to shorten what I wanted

[3:50:00] to say and try to keep it as short as possible,

[3:50:03] cause I want to get out of here too.

[3:50:04] [LAUGHTER]

[3:50:03] So one thing I want to say about the consent agenda,

[3:50:07] I'm all in support of item 19 with the artificial reef

[3:50:10] application and what you guys do there.

[3:50:11] [CLAPS] I'm all for that.

[3:50:13] You know what I'm against, which is the reefing of the SS United

[3:50:16] States, and the reasons why.

[3:50:17] And I've made that clear.

[3:50:19] I do want to point out just one thing that--

[3:50:22] I'm not going to quote and read anything from the book.

[3:50:24] It's just you guys had a long day already,

[3:50:26] and it's not necessary.

[3:50:27] But I do want to say in this, and remember,

[3:50:30] I've given you my contact information at many meetings.

[3:50:32] I've come up and asked, is there any questions that I can ask?

[3:50:36] And the answer is always no.

[3:50:37] All this information is available

[3:50:40] and I have a lot of it.

[3:50:42] And your team over the last year could have asked me.

[3:50:45] I'm not asking to be hired or add work as a consultant,

[3:50:47] but I could have informed you something

[3:50:48] about all this stuff that you're finding out now

[3:50:51] that you're going to have to deal with and everything.

[3:50:53] So with that said, one thing I do want to--

[3:50:55] I guess I'm going to take a little bit of credit

[3:50:58] and pat myself on the back.

[3:50:58] In the December 10 or 9 meeting that Mr. Fall gave

[3:51:01] his presentation everything, all those issues he brought up,

[3:51:05] I'm just wondering, would he have brought those items up

[3:51:09] if myself and my team had not brought up the bomb disposal

[3:51:13] off the shore, hexavalent chromium, all these things that

[3:51:15] have been addressed, would any of that stuff been looked at?

[3:51:18] Because again, what you guys have done is sinking boats.

[3:51:20] Sinking a ship with zinc chromate,

[3:51:23] and hexavalent chromium is something different.

[3:51:25] And no disrespect to Mr. Coffey, but when he said we've

[3:51:28] sunk everything that's zinc chromate, that is not true.

[3:51:31] I can honestly say, 40 years in the business of building ships,

[3:51:34] operating ships and everything.

[3:51:36] And I'll give you one brief example of that.

[3:51:38] Of course, during World War II, we built nearly 2,700 liberty

[3:51:42] ships.

[3:51:42] They were designed to last five voyages, that's all.

[3:51:44] But we didn't have time to coat them and protect them

[3:51:47] with zinc chromate during that, we had to get them in the water

[3:51:50] to fight a war.

[3:51:51] This ship probably has more zinc chromate,

[3:51:53] containing hexa chromium, probably

[3:51:54] than any ship constructed.

[3:51:56] None of those Essex-class carriers have that.

[3:51:58] We had to get them into--

[3:52:00] constructed to fight a war.

[3:52:01] The Oriskany was the only one that

[3:52:03] was completed after the war, where they could do that.

[3:52:06] We weren't in a rush.

[3:52:07] So that's important for you to know.

[3:52:08] Lots of information, and I'm willing to share this to you.

[3:52:11] You just have to be willing to allow a discussion about it.

[3:52:15] So with that said, another thing that he brought up,

[3:52:19] there will be galvanic corrosion.

[3:52:21] Because all the stuff you've sunk

[3:52:23] is either steel vessels, aluminum.

[3:52:24] When you have steel and aluminum in the same vessel,

[3:52:27] you have a thing called galvanic corrosion, and that will occur.

[3:52:29] So you have to take that--

[3:52:32] you have to be wary of that.

[3:52:34] The Oriskany does not have aluminum on it, regardless

[3:52:35] of what some people say.

[3:52:37] Yes, it's aluminum planking on the after deck,

[3:52:38] but the flight deck is still steel.

[3:52:41] The World Trade centers were steel.

[3:52:42] They were covered in aluminum sheathing

[3:52:43] to make them look good.

[3:52:45] They weren't built out of aluminum.

[3:52:47] So when people go around and say, oh, it has aluminum,

[3:52:50] it's not a problem.

[3:52:51] You have to use a little bit of depth

[3:52:53] in your discussion on that.

[3:52:55] So with all that said, I wanted to bring up just one more quick

[3:52:59] item--

[3:53:00] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[3:53:01] STEVE PERRY: --and we'll make it quick and get out.

[3:53:04] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Yep.

[3:53:06] All right, Steve, 10 seconds.

[3:53:08] Do it.

[3:53:09] STEVE PERRY: All right.

[3:53:10] Back in the 2000s, the army or the Air Force had to get rid

[3:53:14] of some F-11s.

[3:53:18] They were buried out in Utah due to environmental concerns.

[3:53:21] The primary reason the F-11 fleet was buried and scrapped,

[3:53:23] environmental health concerns, hexavalent chromium

[3:53:25] being the major factor.

[3:53:27] Not the liquid state, the solid state.

[3:53:28] Which is what you have on the United States.

[3:53:31] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[3:53:32] Ms. Lewis needs to speak now.

[3:53:34] STEVE PERRY: All right.

[3:53:35] Thank you.

[3:53:34] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thanks, Diane Lewis.

[3:53:42] DIANE LEWIS: Mr. Chairman, commissioners,

[3:53:49] thank you for giving me an opportunity to talk.

[3:53:52] I just wanted to bring up--

[3:53:54] My name is Diane Lewis.

[3:53:55] I am a resident of Destin and a property owner on Holiday Isle,

[3:53:59] and I just want to make a couple of quick points.

[3:54:03] At the last board meeting, the board

[3:54:05] demonstrated in extraordinary capacity

[3:54:08] on projects I had never heard about before.

[3:54:13] For collaboration and cooperation and managing nuance

[3:54:16] and respect for property history on something

[3:54:23] as small as rezoning a single parcel, and something-- a

[3:54:27] project as large as the Fairground redevelopment.

[3:54:31] It was amazing, and it was obvious how much

[3:54:35] work and effort had gone into those kinds of things.

[3:54:38] Regarding Holiday Isle and the state property,

[3:54:41] I would just offer three considerations.

[3:54:44] The first was what's already been brought up.

[3:54:48] The original approval for the Marina was very, very specific.

[3:54:51] That the Marina could-- nothing could happen at the Marina

[3:54:57] until there was a certificate of occupancy

[3:55:00] for those residential condos.

[3:55:01] The people who did that, who executed

[3:55:05] that process were like you, elected

[3:55:07] officials who were very, very deliberative,

[3:55:10] very thoughtful about it.

[3:55:13] To now ignore that residential element of it

[3:55:16] because it happened a long time ago, I don't think

[3:55:21] demonstrates the same degree of respect

[3:55:24] that you guys showed last year, but I

[3:55:27] would offer for you to revisit that in the same vein.

[3:55:30] There's a lot of discussion about the state

[3:55:37] and the county and the city.

[3:55:38] There's not as much consideration for people who

[3:55:41] are residents of Holiday Isle.

[3:55:44] There are HINI.

[3:55:46] We have PCNRs, that all of us, when

[3:55:49] we decided to purchase property on Holiday Isle,

[3:55:54] agreed to abide by.

[3:55:57] Again, I think, to come in and write a set of rules

[3:56:02] for things that can happen at the state property

[3:56:06] and ignore what everyone else has to abide by

[3:56:13] doesn't demonstrate the same level of respect.

[3:56:18] Again, those are things that were

[3:56:22] put in place with thoughtful consideration,

[3:56:24] and I would just ask that all of that process be respected.

[3:56:29] And I would say you're worried about $5 million,

[3:56:35] most of the property owners on Holiday Isle

[3:56:39] have a lot more than $5 million invested under what

[3:56:42] they considered rules.

[3:56:44] I wouldn't have bought a property next

[3:56:46] to a park, a public park.

[3:56:49] So I would just say before you spend a lot of time writing

[3:56:56] rules, also recognize, if you're willing to override

[3:56:57] all of the other deliberative property

[3:57:00] processes of former elected officials,

[3:57:03] I wouldn't spend a lot of time on the rules

[3:57:07] because somebody else can just override them.

[3:57:08] And that's--

[3:57:09] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you.

[3:57:11] DIANE LEWIS: So you also cannot take into account--

[3:57:13] you can't be--

[3:57:15] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: You're using up Mr. Scott's time.

[3:57:17] Sorry.

[3:57:17] DIANE LEWIS: You can't compensate anybody

[3:57:20] for loss of property value on Holiday Isle either.

[3:57:23] - Mr. Scott.

[3:57:27] JOHN SCOTT: Hi, I'm John Scott.

[3:57:35] We spoke before, and I just wanted to spit off

[3:57:38] a bunch of facts real quick.

[3:57:39] So on November 9, 2023, I was arrested,

[3:57:41] and it was a wrongful arrest.

[3:57:48] The officer made an investigative stop,

[3:57:49] and then the three of them shut their body cameras off.

[3:57:53] They identified that they had seized evidence

[3:57:55] without having a warrant, and then they delivered me

[3:57:58] to the county jail.

[3:58:00] Oh, I should backtrack.

[3:58:02] On November 11, 2022, I was arrested

[3:58:03] and I was taken to the county jail,

[3:58:06] and I wasn't provided insulin as a type I diabetic

[3:58:09] through my entire stay.

[3:58:10] On November 29, 2022, I went to the Board of County

[3:58:13] Commissioners and informed you all

[3:58:14] that I was not provided insulin, which

[3:58:17] is necessary for life as a type I diabetic,

[3:58:19] and I was told that an investigation would be performed

[3:58:22] and if any issues were found, they would be corrected.

[3:58:25] And if I expected any sort of relief,

[3:58:27] I would need to file a federal lawsuit against the County.

[3:58:30] So then we'll fast forward a year to November 11, 2023,

[3:58:33] where I was wrongfully arrested and the booking officer verified

[3:58:36] that I was not guilty of any crimes

[3:58:39] during the booking process, and it was later

[3:58:42] confirmed by the director of corrections

[3:58:43] that that's the standard practice of the Okaloosa County

[3:58:46] Board of Corrections, and that's how it works.

[3:58:48] If somebody is innocent, when they're brought to the jail,

[3:58:52] the jail just incarcerates innocent people.

[3:58:53] That's how Okaloosa County County Jail operates.

[3:58:56] So let's be quick.

[3:59:00] So on December 5, 2023, I spoke with Chelsea Sharon.

[3:59:03] That was your assistant, and she let

[3:59:08] me know that she needed an email dictating everything.

[3:59:11] I contacted her on December 11, 2023

[3:59:14] to let her know I was sending her that email.

[3:59:17] On January 16.

[3:59:18] I contacted her to ask her if she

[3:59:21] was going to reply to any of the emails I had sent her.

[3:59:24] I contacted the board and approached them and addressed

[3:59:26] them in March of 2024 and let them

[3:59:28] know that nothing had come from the meetings

[3:59:33] with your assistant, Mr. Goodwin,

[3:59:35] regarding the criminal neglect I experienced at the county jail,

[3:59:39] and that an investigation would be unfolding.

[3:59:43] Lynn Hoshihara then let me know she

[3:59:45] was going to perform an investigation, which contained

[3:59:48] more medical information than the official medical records

[3:59:51] from the Okaloosa County Jail.

[3:59:54] And I was curious as to how the Board of County Commissioners

[3:59:57] were able to perform an official investigation

[3:59:58] and get more actual medical information

[4:00:01] than the medical records from the Okaloosa County Jail.

[4:00:05] That seemed weird.

[4:00:06] So we were supposed to have a conference call, Ms. Hoshihara,

[4:00:10] to discuss a settlement.

[4:00:12] And that was supposed to occur on February 13,

[4:00:14] 2024 per the email you sent me, your outlook and the Zooms type

[4:00:18] software was not functioning and you

[4:00:22] weren't able to make that call.

[4:00:25] You never reached out to me to reschedule.

[4:00:27] So I've repeatedly reached out to this board.

[4:00:29] Finally, the last big one was when Nolan Weeks came up here

[4:00:33] and admitted that his corrections officers were not

[4:00:35] responsible or obligated to do anything when someone is proven

[4:00:39] to be innocent when brought to your jail,

[4:00:42] and that their responsibility is to incarcerate people.

[4:00:45] So again, I would ask the Board of County Commissioners

[4:00:49] to address the criminal operations of their jail

[4:00:51] and, again, ask that they offer some sort of settlement,

[4:00:54] since I have established beyond any reasonable doubt

[4:00:57] that my rights were criminally violated.

[4:01:00] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank You, Sir.

[4:01:01] JOHN SCOTT: Thank you.

[4:01:03] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[4:01:05] I have no more speaker cards.

[4:01:07] We're closing the public comment portion of the meeting.

[4:01:09] Commissioners a minute, if you dare.

[4:01:13] Commissioner Cox.

[4:01:14] COMMISSIONER COX: Thank you, Chairman.

[4:01:19] I just want to thank the public who

[4:01:22] have been fully vested in the legislative process here.

[4:01:23] It's a lot.

[4:01:27] I understand that it's a lot.

[4:01:29] It's a lot on us too.

[4:01:30] Commissioner Palmer, I appreciate

[4:01:30] you being professional when addressing some of the concerns.

[4:01:33] I have plenty of constituents who don't agree with the job

[4:01:37] that I do up here sometimes as well.

[4:01:41] And I hope to serve everybody in my district

[4:01:44] and the other districts we're elected at large.

[4:01:46] Your input is absolutely necessary.

[4:01:47] We don't know what the feedback is from you without you saying,

[4:01:52] right?

[4:01:52] Not a single one of us, I don't think,

[4:01:55] is going to be able to respond to every inquiry,

[4:01:58] every feedback, every time, but we

[4:02:01] hope to when we bring those concerns up here to the dais.

[4:02:05] I mean, I want you to know that.

[4:02:08] Our hearts are with you or we wouldn't

[4:02:10] run for these positions.

[4:02:11] Amen.

[4:02:12] And to our county staff, thank you for the additional work

[4:02:15] that you do that is brought forth

[4:02:17] because of us behind the dais and also because of the concerns

[4:02:21] of our citizens.

[4:02:21] I mean, we recognize that you are working for us, working

[4:02:25] for them, and we appreciate every one

[4:02:27] of you and the extra efforts that you put into that process.

[4:02:31] So thank you.

[4:02:31] That's all I have.

[4:02:32] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you.

[4:02:34] Commissioner Mixon.

[4:02:35] COMMISSIONER MIXON: No!

[4:02:36] No, sir.

[4:02:37] [LAUGHTER]

[4:02:37] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Thank you, sir.

[4:02:39] Commissioner Palmer.

[4:02:41] COMMISSIONER PALMER: I just wanted

[4:02:43] to say, pray for our troops that are in harm's way.

[4:02:47] Obviously, there's a lot going on in the world.

[4:02:48] And then happy birthday to my wife, Jody.

[4:02:50] That's all I got.

[4:02:51] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: Awesome.

[4:02:51] Very, very, very well said on both points, sir.

[4:02:54] Ms. Ketchel.

[4:02:55] COMMISSIONER KETCHEL: I just have to briefly comment.

[4:02:58] Thank you to Jeff Peters and his entire staff for the Shalimar

[4:03:01] Little League Park.

[4:03:02] Saturday morning was a glorious morning.

[4:03:04] We had flyovers from all the Ospreys and Eagles,

[4:03:07] and we had a beautiful park to unveil

[4:03:09] for all those sweet little children,

[4:03:11] and the parents were so appreciative.

[4:03:13] Also, I just want to say, the thing

[4:03:16] that I've enjoyed most about being

[4:03:18] up here over the last decade has been

[4:03:21] that when we get off the dais, there's no hard feelings.

[4:03:25] In other words, we all vote the best

[4:03:27] we can to serve our constituents.

[4:03:28] And I don't envy Mr. Palmer's position right now,

[4:03:31] but I've been where he is, so thank you.

[4:03:34] I just wanted to say that.

[4:03:36] COMMISSIONER GOODWIN: All right.

[4:03:37] Very good.

[4:03:38] Well, I have nothing to add.

[4:03:39] So we are adjourned.

[4:03:41] [GAVEL STRIKES]

[4:03:41]

Board of County Commissioners Regular Meeting (North)

Transcript