[1:17] So seven o'clock, I'd like to call a work session at Page County Planning Commission order.

[1:21] If you please rise for the pledge of allegiance.

[1:35] One nation under God.

[1:53] Just a reminder tonight that if you do choose to speak, make sure that your microphone is turned on as indicated by the greener red light, and that you speak loudly directly and clearly into it.

[2:03] Mr. Honor roll call, please. Chris Adams.

[2:06] Sammy Davis.

[2:07] Yes.

[2:08] We return here.

[2:09] I have a category.

[2:11] Chairman.

[2:12] Here.

[2:13] All right.

[2:14] Moving forward.

[2:16] Motion to adopt begin is a menid by staff.

[2:19] They had asked that we had to EDA subcommittee.

[2:21] Here's the housing subcommittee report.

[2:24] On of that, and it would be relocated after the speedway underneath the unfinished business.

[2:34] Two minutes or second.

[2:37] Motion made in property.

[2:38] Seconded.

[2:38] Mr. Honorable.

[2:39] Please.

[2:40] Mr. Turner.

[2:48] All right.

[2:48] Moving forward adoption.

[2:49] A new business adoption.

[2:50] the minutes from August 11th. I'll give you a quick second to note any changes that need to be made.

[3:32] Any changes need to be made to the minutes?

[3:37] Here are none that I need to motion to adopt them as presented.

[3:46] Make a motion to adopt the minutes, please.

[3:48] All right, motion to be made is there a second?

[3:50] I'm seconded.

[3:51] Motion to be made in property second.

[3:52] Did Mr. Honour roll, please?

[3:55] Mr. Davis.

[3:55] Yes. Mr. Turner.

[3:57] Mr. Johnson.

[3:58] Yes. Mr. Greg.

[3:59] Yes. Mr. Adams.

[4:00] Yes. Chairman Werner.

[4:01] Yes.

[4:02] Moving forward to non-finish business, stand on speedways, SUP, Mr. Han, I think you had

[4:09] some comment you wanted to make?

[4:11] Sir, just briefly, what's in your packet?

[4:13] We have the latest version of the draft conditions that Mr. Gregg, Mr. Johnson, and staff work

[4:19] gone in the last two weeks.

[4:20] I'm going to go to Ms. Gregg, or that.

[4:22] The only thing I'll comment on that is you'll see many different colors throughout the

[4:26] document.

[4:27] That's just the reflection of different people working on it.

[4:30] So, all of the, any, if it's not black, it's something that's been changed over time.

[4:35] If you have any questions at that, just ask.

[4:38] The other two things, as it didn't, it was to the packet.

[4:41] We received an email that directly you received from a citizen earlier today.

[4:46] And then I have some staff notes that we will go over to once we get to the violations of section.

[4:53] That's it.

[4:56] We're describing Mr. Johnson, which one of you wants to go through the changes you all made?

[5:00] I will, if you don't mind, first of all, I have to say that we spent collectively many, many hours.

[5:08] I'm aware that the results aren't going to please many people, but we've really, really worked very hard on that.

[5:14] So thank you, Mr. Johnson, thank you, Josh, Cassie's not here, but we all worked on that.

[5:20] So I'm going to say, if there's congratulations, they go to all, if this criticism brings them to me,

[5:26] although it wasn't a collective effort that we tried to gain consensus on that.

[5:32] So I just before we go through the document, I wanted to tell you what my thought process was

[5:38] and trying to tackle this.

[5:39] This is, I've been on the planning commission for six, seven years now.

[5:42] This is by far the most difficult one.

[5:44] I guess, second to the SUP for Industrial Solar.

[5:48] This is really not easy.

[5:50] and had we had the benefit of professional advice or guidance, either to a sound study or just some

[5:57] some conversation that would have made it much easier. So when I said that the last meeting,

[6:01] I think it's in the minutes that it felt to me like the blindly leading the blind,

[6:04] yeah, I'm as blind as you are, I just volunteered to try and do the best I could,

[6:09] so please bear with us, okay? So I thought, here's my process and my method. I was trying to keep

[6:15] much of the old SUVs as possible, because I thought they were well thought out and reasoned,

[6:21] especially in 2007, because they came in the wake of a sound study and recommendations

[6:25] by a professional. There was a lot of two and four, and I thought there was a lot of good stuff

[6:30] in there. So, number two, after keeping as much as we could, I thought we needed to clarify some

[6:36] definitions, some language, some metrics, where was necessary, to enable better enforcement,

[6:42] where possible. So we hear that enforcement for a variety of reasons wasn't optimal.

[6:50] Some of it had to do with the way the rules were either not defined or not clearly.

[6:57] Well, the language needed modifications or maybe we needed new metrics.

[7:01] I do want to say something about enforcement. I know that I see a lot of complaints from the public about lack of enforcement.

[7:07] But this is not something that the planning commission other than writing rules has a direct influence on.

[7:14] That's something which is a budgetary item and that is really a board decision.

[7:19] So we can write rules which we think that staff should be able to enforce, given the right tools or the personnel, but that's not a decision that we can make it.

[7:31] So, beyond clarifying what was there, then we needed to modify definitions, language or metrics, and sometimes create some, when it was necessary to do so for either public health and safety, trying to take into account the comments of the public, and also what Mr. Long requested, what the applicant requested.

[7:53] So that was the method, so I can give you an example of these two things, of all these three

[7:58] things, for instance, in number one, we kept the number of events at 32, the definition

[8:05] of the definition of events.

[8:07] That's directly from zoning ordinance 125-4.

[8:11] The sound mitigation measures, we kept it near the racing seasons, equal to October for the

[8:16] oval track, March to November, for the motocross or dirt track we kept as is.

[8:21] Sunday racing, we kept as is the ring days, especially the maximum of 25 percent, which amounts to eight days out of 32,

[8:32] lighting standard, which we have to talk about for the moment we haven't changed that.

[8:37] That is to show you how much we've kept at the old SUV.

[8:41] Two, when I say we needed to clarify, definitions language and metrics, for instance, the language regarding events, practices.

[8:48] We had to put some new definitions in there, and then we had to add new things, for instance, a schedule of events, a new definition, for instance, we chose to define something which is called public use training and commercial training.

[9:06] I'll tell you a little bit more about that. Some sound metrics and language, violation and penalties, the sound free weekend is new and the overnight lodging is new.

[9:16] So that's just to tell you how we preceded.

[9:19] We took what we could, we tweaked some, and some of it.

[9:24] So that you know we had a method.

[9:27] So looking at the document that you have in front of you,

[9:30] it's the 821-2026.

[9:33] So this Josh can probably tell you it's the 12th or 20th or 30th version.

[9:39] Since last time you saw it, because we had this idea,

[9:41] then we had that idea, and we talked about it,

[9:44] and I talked about it, and I talked about it,

[9:47] with Cassie and this and that and the other that went round and round. So, this was finished

[9:52] on Friday and then some new things.

[9:57] So, I think what you're going to see here, as I said,

[10:02] racing season, we had a hard time deciding for a season for both tracks. As you can see,

[10:11] the oval track is able for October, that seven months, motorcross, March, November, that's

[10:16] months. So since we couldn't really agree on one, we decided to keep them separate.

[10:25] There is some comment. I think Josh thought that term motor cross track might be better

[10:30] change to dirt track. If you look at the 2011 Permit, it's written motor cross track in

[10:35] bracket dirt track. So we'll have to see if we want to keep that name as it is. So

[10:46] yeah.

[10:46] idea of being there that there's other things that happen at the motocross.

[10:52] There's other events and just what is conventionally known as motocross, and I would probably

[10:57] defer to the applicant to discuss that further if we were to change the name of that, but.

[11:01] So we kept it as that, but we'd be open to calling it the dirt track or whatever you want.

[11:06] It's an oval track.

[11:07] My point is maybe it could be the rectangular track or something like that, but whatever.

[11:13] So, when we came to look at the definition of practice, practices, this was a big, big

[11:22] discussion.

[11:23] Not everybody had the same idea of what a practice was.

[11:27] Can we back up to the race in a season and talk about the two different timeframes?

[11:37] If you're going to be running the dirt track, motorcris, track, March the November,

[11:41] why wouldn't you run the over track the same time frame if they're already running for

[11:45] warm water to let them run for them because it's it's just adding

[11:53] not think that

[11:58] not having professional advice we could take it upon ourselves to lengthen the old

[12:03] track season since it's the noisiest but wouldn't the same noise be generated from the

[12:08] mock motorcross we don't know that now if you I don't mind having this discussion now

[12:16] that you'll see where it further on in the documents,

[12:19] it has a bearing.

[12:20] So if you want to discuss, to further,

[12:22] the conversation, that's fine.

[12:24] We can further.

[12:25] Let's defer it to when we actually are using it in the document.

[12:28] But basically, the reason it's like that

[12:31] is we couldn't agree on which one.

[12:32] So short of one or the long.

[12:39] Since we had a lot of discussion

[12:42] regarding what practice consists of,

[12:44] it seems to me, it seemed to us,

[12:46] that many times the neighbors were complaining about it,

[12:50] because an event took place and we were told, no, it's not an event, it was a practice.

[12:54] So we thought it was an important to define practice and then we went through numerous situations

[13:00] of the definition of practice and how to make sure that a practice did not become an event.

[13:05] So we looked at many metrics and I think Ken will tell you about that.

[13:10] But in that process, we realized that we had two definitions missing.

[13:16] So one of them was on the bottom of page 1 public service training and you can read this is how we defined it any activity in which fire and rescue personnel emergency respond to school bus drivers and other public safety or public service personnel use a facility track equipment to develop or improve driving skills vehicle handling technique safety procedures or operational law decision further and so they're official duties.

[13:43] So, we decided to separate that from another area, which we chose to separate is what we chose to call commercial training.

[13:54] Any activity in which participants use the facility these tracks to develop, improve driving skills,

[14:00] often to the public, or to facility patients for a fee as part of a commercial or recreational program,

[14:05] and not involving competitive, competitive, vehicle activity among participants, including,

[14:11] but not limited to high performance driving clinics or schools or civil programs.

[14:15] The reason we added that is we seem to recollect the applicant saying that this was a new

[14:22] avenue of business for him, and we sure we should honor that, but then consider it differently

[14:27] than the public use training for the practice. So that meant that if you look on page two,

[14:35] H that left practice tuning and testing we use the same terminologies before would be the use of the track by any vehicles other than during a motorsport event public service training or commercial training. Meaning it's everything else.

[14:55] Sure. I just wanted to put those streets together.

[15:00] We have left blank the days and hours of use for the commercial training because we thought we should talk to the applicant about that. So, you know, at this point, it might be a good idea.

[15:11] So before we do that, I want to ask one question. So the definitions you have included for public service training and the ones you have included for commercial training, is that consistent and compliant with the current ordinance that's written, when it can't be used in those type of events, is that kind of accessory.

[15:29] I don't think it would be inconsistent, but it would probably be well advised to then

[15:36] come

[15:36] to current supplemental regs for that.

[15:40] But I'll confess we did not look at the supplemental regs when we were doing this.

[15:44] It's correct.

[15:45] Yeah, because I'm not, I mean, I concerned in the past that it's been an ordinance, that's

[15:48] what we followed, but that, when we really never rewrote the ordinance when we got to the

[15:53] conditions.

[15:54] I just, as long as this can plan and consistent with what's in there and it's not taking

[15:57] away or adding to what that's allowed to do.

[16:00] Any existing definitions we tried to,

[16:16] but I do think, I can't do it right now,

[16:37] but I'm just one of the very

[16:37] father that it was.

[16:47] Is this a good time to ask the applicant?

[16:49] Well, I know he spoke about, you know, clubs and people wanting to come and train on the tracks at a past meeting.

[16:57] I confess that I don't remember everything he said, but I thought he said that it was a new avenue of business.

[17:01] And we thought it should be regulated separately, then the public service training for the practice for the races, because it's a different.

[17:12] It's a different atmosphere.

[17:13] You either want to be one of the address that.

[17:26] What is your specific question?

[17:28] The classification?

[17:31] There's our definition of commercial training.

[17:35] I'll correspond to what you had talked about when you came to the podium.

[17:39] and one of our previous meetings saying that there was a new

[17:42] avenue of business that you wanted to tap into.

[17:45] I think you mentioned clubs from major cities

[17:49] or wherever they are, they want to drive their sports car

[17:52] in the track.

[17:54] Yeah.

[17:54] Yeah, there's requests from various car clubs and individuals

[18:01] that just want to come and do practice and testing on the track.

[18:08] And it's not a confined schedule.

[18:16] We may get a call today and car clubs got an idea they'd like to come on this Saturday

[18:25] and if Saturday's available they'd come up and practice.

[18:31] What that consists of, they may come in and set up cones.

[18:34] and self-run all course inside the track and that's one form of practice for those

[18:44] folks. We get other entities that want to use the facility, you know, just to do training

[18:55] for their drivers, as far as proper parking. And only when that happens, it's done up in the

[19:05] a lot, they'll set cones up and go through and have a course there,

[19:12] and train their drivers,

[19:14] you know, how to handle the vehicles, and when that happens, that's usually some of the

[19:21] local fire and rescue units that ask for that to be done.

[19:27] And so practice gets into a lot of various things.

[19:33] You know, I have some people call me, and these are individuals, and they'll say,

[19:41] a daughter's working on learning and how to drive, and we like to use your facility to

[19:47] do that when they're available, so we'll get that type of request.

[19:56] And those requests are really unlimited, you know, what calls we do receive and get,

[20:06] I don't

[20:07] So really what this draft, this we're on is doing is it's kind of taking what we have previously combined all and

[20:15] and splitting it out in the three different categories. It's the public public service training.

[20:22] So that's your fire at UMS school bus. And as I recall where we landed on that was that would be basically held.

[20:28] It's unlimited, except it's, it's held to facility hours. So whenever the facility hours are, they can be there.

[20:36] They can't be sirens, all unless there's an actual emergency.

[20:41] So that's basically to keep that unlimited, and then there's this commercial training, which would be more tied to what we understood.

[20:51] You'd say earlier several weeks ago, tied to schools, clubs, things like that, it's not a race.

[20:57] There's no racing going on, but they can use the track.

[21:00] I don't know, we may need to specify that they could use the parking lot too if they're doing any kind of training with parking.

[21:07] because right now we're kind of reserving to the old track and the dirt track.

[21:12] And then there's practice tuning and testing and that's everything else, but really what

[21:16] that's tight is he was practicing, it's the same cars that are doing the old track or

[21:20] race or dirt track race, so it's practice tuning and testing for those events.

[21:25] And what's different about practice tuning and testing is if this is, you know, approved

[21:30] as is, it would be limited to a certain number of practice tuning and testing for a year.

[21:35] So public service would be unlimited, commercial training would have more limited hours, which we would discuss.

[21:43] But number of commercial training would be unlimited.

[21:46] And then, practicing and testing would be limited to, I think, where we rested.

[21:50] There was basically 32 practices.

[21:54] That's further on and further not yet.

[21:56] So that's conceptually what it is.

[21:58] And so I think what Ms. Greck is kind of asking you is,

[22:01] how did the definition sound to you?

[22:03] I don't have a problem with the debt.

[22:07] Thank you.

[22:08] The only thing I'd say about commercial training, and you kind of hit on a

[22:12] little bit of jobs, where we were mentioning facilities tracks, I mean technically

[22:16] the facility would include the parking lots, if you took the work tracks out, the facility

[22:20] would do me cover the parking lot with me covered.

[22:23] I agree.

[22:27] Isn't that parking lot?

[22:30] I would just add that much of my motivation to adding commercial training is in my research. I found that that is an evolving and growing demand for this kind of facility. People were really enjoying it. So I wanted to make sure it was covered as an approved use. It wasn't laid out directly as an approved use in the past. I wanted it to be clear that it isn't approved use.

[22:52] So that was an example of adding something new that didn't exist before and also at the same time clarifying what a practice really was.

[23:01] So we are confined practicing to people practicing for an event.

[23:10] Is there any any questions about any of that that we can clarify?

[23:13] None of this was easy. We went through multiple versions of multiple ideas a lot of research.

[23:22] Now, it is our understanding that those activities are going to be less noisy than the events and races themselves.

[23:58] It's not, at least it's not in the definition.

[24:02] Yeah, I don't think we have anything here.

[24:05] I'll read it to you again, just keep that in mind.

[24:08] Any activity in which fire and rescue personnel

[24:11] emergency responded school best driver or other public safety

[24:15] or public service personnel use.

[24:18] Use the facility, sorry, use the facility track.

[24:22] We're going to take the work track out of here as well.

[24:24] use the facility, equipment, the facilities equipment to develop or improve driving skills,

[24:33] vehicle handling techniques, safety procedures or operational knowledge in furtherance

[24:38] of their official duties.

[24:45] But I don't think we have the no-blowing sciences, what I'm going to say.

[24:48] Well, you do when you go down the number two if you read that.

[24:53] Is it underneath noise regulation?

[25:01] So we can put a we should put an exception there. Under number two. Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't we're gonna address that in a bit, but yeah, sure

[25:12] We can put an exception. I mean, I don't see where you need to include public service training and commercial training underneath that anyway

[25:19] Well, it was just to have some kind of a metric to measure it, but you're saying not to include public service training

[25:26] Yeah, or commercial training. I wouldn't include either one of those on your

[25:32] Yeah, can we just get to that when we get to it?

[25:37] Yeah,

[25:45] we proceed.

[25:46] Okay, so where are we now?

[25:49] Page two, practice and training.

[25:51] We, I don't think we've changed anything else.

[25:56] The motorsports event day, there was a question about schedule being there,

[26:00] but that's in the definition I want 20.

[26:05] Josh, did we have a comment on that, but maybe I don't think I see it anymore.

[26:10] That maybe that needed to be changing the ordinance. Where's that?

[26:15] Oh, no, it's under e on page one. Sorry.

[26:18] Yeah, so I just want to draw your attention to something on page one still.

[26:23] Motorsports event any regularly schedule. We don't like that term regularly.

[26:28] The Cassie reminded us that that's what's in the ordinance.

[26:31] So that's a conflict, such as you refer to the will have to discuss.

[26:35] Because if you say it's regularly scheduled, what if it's not regularly scheduled?

[26:39] that it happens to be scheduled but not regularly.

[26:45] So regularly schedule would imply it happened every week.

[26:49] It could happen every month, every January, or something.

[26:53] It does say indoor, advertised, gathering, so...

[26:56] Doesn't that kind of kind of...

[26:58] Is there going to advertise anything, right?

[27:00] Yeah.

[27:00] So we were thinking of taking the word regularly out of there

[27:03] when Cassi said, wait a minute, that's what's written in those only words.

[27:07] So we may have to reconsider...

[27:10] In view of the SSUP, we may have to consider some of the verbiage of the zoning ordinance if that's appropriate.

[27:21] Sorry for the two info.

[27:24] You

[27:32] have anything else under definitions?

[27:34] It's new, Josh, I don't think so.

[27:59] So maybe that definition will be better in the rain day section.

[28:10] Because there's no conflict.

[28:12] Okay, noise regulations.

[28:13] So here,

[28:18] a one, the only change that we were proposing is to reduce the number of 88 to number of it

[28:24] We weren't quite sure how I think that was the number proposed by Michael.

[28:30] We're quite sure how we arrived at that.

[28:34] And I personally think it's excessive and was suggesting reducing it to 82

[28:39] when it seemed like my colleagues agreed.

[28:42] But there's a couple of comments on the right hand.

[28:45] Josh, do you want to talk about?

[28:47] Sure, there's a general comment just.

[29:53] Still thinks that

[29:58] the...

[29:59] lid...

[30:00] Inal solution is the one that is fairer to everybody. It also has to be, it also appears to be complicated and expensive, but I do think that the board needs to be aware that it wasn't the 2007 SUP, and in taking it out, we need to be aware that we're taking something out.

[30:19] So, I'd clarify that I'll begin anybody thought it would be.

[30:24] Yes, no, but I want to make sure we have this conversation and I want it to be stated.

[30:28] It is the most fair.

[30:30] Now, so we could consider language in here, which goes a little bit further,

[30:36] to refer to the work that Mr.

[30:38] that my colleague Mr. Johnson did on the DNL.

[30:41] We all liked it at the time, we thought it was great.

[30:44] And, you know, we could either cite the language, by the way, when you say Josh, it's

[30:53] uncertain how the 2007, 2007, it's 7A, the talks about the NL, the NL.

[31:04] So there is language that we could, that we could put back in there, Mr. Mr. Johnson

[31:09] has proposed, you know, an annual noise budget text, which is what's five lines long,

[31:15] could put it in here, which is an alternative, which is actually the best solution,

[31:23] and it's

[31:23] not that we want to insist on it being in here, but we want the board to see that that's

[31:29] an option. The other option is to go with what we have under one, a one with the noise

[31:37] limits, the in the document that was given to us by the county attorney with a modification

[31:42] and then added for that under number two,

[31:48] why don't you explain how you came to that?

[31:51] And I think we were trying here to find

[31:53] how to regulate practices in a fair way.

[31:58] Do we regulate the number of cars?

[32:00] Do we regulate the day of the week?

[32:02] How do we not allow them to be turned into events under the label of a practice?

[32:08] So Mr. Johnson, kindly did a deep dive on that, and maybe you want to explain to us how you were right to this.

[38:05] Members in the sound levels, when the practice and the motorsport event races, that same day.

[38:15] It's not an issue because if it's a day,

[38:21] the difference what we've tried to say is if you go over the 71,

[38:26] and noise, then it counts as a race day. If there's already a race day there.

[38:33] Right, but you're triggering it as a violation. I mean, the whole thing is they keep getting had violations down to the against them.

[38:40] Well, if they choose to exceed the 71 on a race day, because you consider to consider the

[38:45] motorsport bid day, technically, they were in violation of the 71.

[38:49] Well, actually, what it says here is a violation of the sub-directional cause of that day to

[38:53] be counted as a modest bet,

[38:57] and we're specifying what this particular type of violation

[39:00] in the sentence.

[39:01] We can change the term violation if you want.

[39:03] Yeah, I don't think violation is the right word.

[39:05] I just say, if you're going to say that if it exceeds that.

[39:08] That's a question.

[39:09] No, if it just exceeds that, it's considered a motorsport to bid day.

[39:12] Okay, so use another language,

[39:27] okay.

[39:27] Skill sure at the border of the property, you'll 71 decibel.

[39:39] Do you recommend that?

[39:50] There's no problem.

[39:51] So we get back to the same problem.

[39:52] So then they're using practice days as an event day.

[39:58] Do you see what I'm saying?

[39:59] Then if the practice is, there is no easy as events.

[40:02] Then they become event days.

[40:03] And then they're going to be in violation.

[40:05] Say that.

[40:07] Well, how do we go about it?

[40:08] That's what we're trying to explain to you.

[40:10] would you go about it? We've spent many hours trying to go around it to find a solution and the only solution.

[40:17] Actually, my reasoning was based on a comment that Mr. Van made when he said that for instance,

[40:23] the commercial training, what we call now commercial training, was going to be less noisy than the practices,

[40:28] because they're not racing. So we said, okay, then the metric is better. We're just saying that if it is going to be noisy

[40:34] this on the same day. It's not going to be penalized because it's an event day anyhow, right?

[40:40] But if it is a practice, let's say on the Thursday, and it says no easy as an event day, then it counts as a day.

[40:48] Do you actually need to pull up the ordinance? It says that I want to look at that 80 decibel criteria.

[41:31] It says that the very end of D4, unless if you go to the end, D,

[41:42] the mention of the A's,

[41:43] on D4,

[41:48] unless they're specifically addressed in the experiment, which they are, no recurrent

[41:53] to exceed ADDB.

[41:59] No, these levels specifically address in a special use permit.

[42:02] We'll take precedence over the maximum of ADDB.

[42:05] Do I think we'll okay with that?

[42:07] So basically, you want to penalize them for practice.

[42:10] This is what you're doing.

[42:12] Yeah, that's exactly what you're doing.

[42:15] No.

[42:15] They're only penalized for practice if the practice, if the level of noise of the practice is equal to an event.

[42:30] If you disagree with a number of 71, I'm sure we're not attached to it.

[42:33] What we're saying is if your practice becomes as noisy as an event or be on a certain threshold, then it becomes an event.

[42:42] Let's always say.

[42:44] Now, you can disagree with the metric with the metric of 71.

[42:48] I don't have a problem that we discussed that, but we're saying that we were trying to prevent a

[42:56] practice

[42:59] becoming an event

[43:01] in terms of noise, because that seems to be where the conversation was for a recent violation

[43:06] or for a recent alleged violation.

[43:10] The

[43:24] point is we're trying to limit noisy practices where they're racing.

[43:28] Remember the county attorney said at some point in here,

[43:31] think we still have it somewhere, that it is, they're not supposed to practice in a way that

[43:39] mimics racing, right?

[43:42] But that, in that reference he's talking about the competitive nature of multiple cars racing

[43:47] against one another.

[43:49] I think we're, we're muddy in the waters by trying to incorporate noise into the definition

[43:55] of motorsport events.

[43:57] But isn't that the whole issue, isn't that where the problem lies, isn't that the

[44:02] issue is in the heart of the issue of the complaints of the neighbors and the rights of the

[44:08] property owner is in it all about the noise.

[44:12] So, all right, who's not an enforce that seven do you

[44:18] know?

[44:19] If there is a DNL standard adopted, then it takes that into account as well.

[44:23] But that's an A-way to decibel.

[44:26] They're all A-way to decibels.

[44:28] Every metric we have in here is an A-way to decibel.

[44:32] If we adopt the D&L standard, then it just falls under the D&L standard and this falls by the wayside.

[44:41] That I agree with.

[44:44] So it's either we have the D&L metric, which we all agree is the best, or we have the 80 for motorsports event and a reduced sound level for practices in order to disguise practices.

[44:59] not to this

[45:00] Guys, events as practices. Because that's where most of the complaints are coming from.

[45:05] I mean, I still come back to the it's an enforcement issue.

[45:09] It's staff going to be setting out there when practices have pending versus any event.

[45:14] I mean, on the days.

[45:17] So I'm so glad you touched on that because that's a subject dear to my heart.

[45:22] We are constantly, it seems like we're constantly going around in circles saying, we can't put things in there that can't be enforced.

[45:28] And they can't be enforced if they're not in here, right?

[45:31] And it goes round and round and round and round and round.

[45:33] It's gone like that for 20, 30 years.

[45:35] So we know that if enforcement only happens about, you know,

[45:39] on complaint, you know, on complaint, the staff needs to be equipped with the tools of enforcement,

[45:45] whether that's more people or more equipment, more equipment would be in D&L,

[45:50] more people, but that's not a decision that we can make at this level.

[45:54] We don't decide on budgets to hire staff or to give staff more equipment.

[45:58] So, I guess here's my point, if we don't put rules in, it's a little bit like saying,

[46:04] oh well, we're not going to put a speed limit on 81 because we can't have, you know,

[46:09] officers out there monitoring the speed limit, 24, 7, right?

[46:14] So we still need to have rules in here.

[46:16] And this is why I was saying, we really tried very hard to put rules that were fair.

[46:21] We're not saying it was easy, we're not saying we're right, we're trying.

[46:24] What my point is is the non-dustable difference for a few select hours of a week, really worth all the extra headaches that it's going to cause both staff and the applicant.

[46:39] Part of the answer to that is how many hours a week.

[46:41] Now we're back through managing it by hours.

[46:44] The impact on the community we're now managing it by hours.

[46:48] As it's currently drafted, there's, I don't remember, ten or twelve hours a day,

[46:54] where under your theory, 80 decibels would be authorized.

[46:59] So people would be subject to that race-way level noise,

[47:05] six other days a week, or five other days a week.

[47:09] So it's just a question of, how do we manage something?

[47:15] Trying to look ahead 30 years.

[47:17] Who knows what is going to be like in 30 years?

[47:19] Who knows what the demand for that track is going to be?

[47:23] So what we're endeavoring to do is to get away from managing it by hours, because hours is too restrictive according to what Mr.

[47:33] Vaughn says.

[47:34] If we limit him just to two hours, then a day or whatever it is, then he said he doesn't have the flexibility to deal with people that just call him up.

[47:42] They just want to do this.

[47:45] So that's the real crux of it.

[47:46] Do we want to expose neighbors to raceway level noise the other five days of the week 10 hours a day, which is what we would do if we authorize in 80 decibel level for training or do we want to manage noise at a lower level for non raceway events?

[48:05] That's what it boils down to, I think.

[48:07] What that number should be, should it not be 71? I've already been very plain. I don't know.

[48:12] And I won't know until we get some advice.

[48:16] If I meet Chairman, I'm going

[48:53] out six, seven times a day, what's the alternative?

[48:58] You leave it all at 80.

[49:01] But then we're not solving any problems.

[49:04] If we leave it all at 80, we tried that.

[49:07] I want you to know that we spent.

[49:09] If we haven't spent a total of at least the total of one employee 40 hours a week, we spend zero.

[49:16] We have witnesses. We spent many hours going around in circle with all these solutions and we did not find this was the most fear in our opinion because if not you're back to the neighbors calling all the time

[49:31] You know what it was over the noise limit. It was loud. It was a Monday, Tuesday, Friday

[49:36] Now I'll have something that I seem to remember from previous conversation and I believe this I could be wrong

[49:42] But I believe the applicant told us that most practices, or it might have been somebody else,

[49:47] most practices take place the day before the race, right?

[49:50] If the race is on a Friday, it takes place on a Thursday, if it's on a Saturday, it takes place on the Friday,

[49:55] which is why we limited if you look a little bit further down to practice two days a week.

[50:00] Not the trainings, not the public use trainings, or the commercial training, just the practices.

[50:06] We leave them the hours they want, we say not more than so many hours, but you can choose the hours.

[50:10] Limit it to two days away. We put this in here for your consideration because we thought it was a good idea

[50:16] Is it possible that right now we're doing some guesswork that the applicant might be able to answer as in what what of what a feasible practice?

[50:26] How long in a day what time of day it usually happens in and there could be conditions that he would be amenable to that would be limited to a certain number of days per week and year and still be at 80 decibels

[50:40] Yeah, I mean, the only thing I have going to comment is, though, when we read the sound study,

[50:45] a sound study was based on one car going around the track, and they had punks, wherever

[50:50] it's hit in 80.

[50:53] And I understand your logic and makes perfect sense.

[50:57] But if the sound study is saying one track going around the track is 80 decibels at the proper

[51:01] line or at the point where it's measured, and we cut it down to 71, are we making it

[51:06] an unrealistic constraint?

[51:08] Maybe so.

[51:09] Maybe so.

[51:10] But then, how else are you going to prevent, how are you also going to prevent an event being disguised?

[51:17] I'm sorry if the word sounds a little on a peeling, but dressed up as a practice.

[51:21] You know what I'm saying?

[51:21] It's a practice.

[51:22] It's labeled as a practice, but it's as noisy as an event.

[51:25] And then it should count as an

[51:35] event.

[51:35] Shall we leave it for now?

[51:38] And move on for the sake of conversation.

[51:40] So to clarify how we're leaving it, I heard two things just now.

[51:44] Now, if you look at the popsop of B3, nonwithstanding paragraph A, the facility name, they may go and hire a sound acquisition and say, wait a minute, there's an alternative, right, we allow for that here.

[52:04] I hate to blame for this, but I'm on the one who has put a draft out and I want to make sure it's the right draft.

[52:10] Am I hearing that if we're keeping an 80, there is no purpose for two anymore because it's all 80.

[52:16] And my eliminating 80 in the draft, or two in the drafts, do we need, I mean, just tell me what to do.

[52:23] Let's fold this.

[52:24] Okay, so the conversation, because I think certain things need to be looked at in perspective.

[52:31] Has anybody else have anything on page two or can we move on?

[52:41] We haven't added anything to mufflers. That was not our language, and that was there before. That was the county attorney. We did not add that. That was there. We didn't touch that. The monitoring and measuring plan is something we agreed that we agreed on that that the last meeting.

[53:01] Ken's document, 1814, it was instead of the method of measurements proposed by the county attorney, saying it's better left for the recommendations of professionals.

[53:09] We haven't changed about either.

[53:15] The next thing we've changed is I believe on page five, am I mistaken?

[53:23] The rest is nothing we've seen all this before.

[53:25] We

[53:28] think that number four might be redundant with the new language of 4C5, so we took it out.

[53:39] In G, we're saying that if a professional is hired and he happens to identify any additional sound mitigation,

[53:48] we should, they should also be implemented and maintain.

[53:52] Should that happen? We're not saying that it should, but if it does.

[53:56] So then we get to maximum event days,

[54:02] the only thing we changed here under A was we change calendar year to two combined racing seasons because we couldn't decide which one to use,

[54:21] different racing seasons.

[54:25] We added a

[54:29] weekly cap to motorsports event day per calendar week.

[54:33] It's never been any different to my knowledge I've never seen more than two so we put it in there.

[54:40] We put in the noise free weekend,

[54:45] but I think we had that before, right?

[54:58] I'm just reviewing the changes that we may know.

[55:01] No, I'm just there before.

[55:02] I mean, I'm still kind of hung up on the weekend,

[55:04] count of two merge board events per calendar week,

[55:07] and then you're recording them in the week free weekend.

[55:10] Why, why did you just allow them at three?

[55:14] Because they never have more than two.

[55:15] They have Friday and Saturday.

[55:18] They have Saturday Sunday Characters.

[55:21] Well, shall we look at the Sundays?

[55:22] when we get to it, because we have that there as well.

[55:47] Somebody questioned under whether allowance days, D&E.

[55:51] There was a measure of 30 percent, I think,

[55:53] that came from the county attorney, and we was wondering,

[55:56] we're wondering how that 30 percent would be determined,

[55:59] is that 30 percent of the number of events,

[56:01] 30 percent in hours?

[56:03] We weren't quite sure how that would work.

[56:05] But since it wasn't our language,

[56:08] we didn't want to...

[56:09] We just thought that staff would have to interpret that.

[56:12] Right, we did talk about that, but we're quite sure how to address it.

[56:16] If you want a picture of how we would interpret it as is, if there is a rain delay, we'd

[56:21] probably ask the operator to give us a schedule of what the events were and how far they got to that schedule.

[56:28] We wouldn't be requiring the applicant to give us that schedule in advance.

[56:33] I don't think that's reasonable.

[56:35] So after the event has already been rain delayed, they would give us the schedule of events.

[56:40] And the schedule events is publicly posted.

[56:43] It's always on Facebook.

[56:44] Well, that's the schedule of a event.

[56:46] I'm talking about the, the, the, the.

[56:48] Of what actually happened during each individual event.

[56:50] That's how we make a termination of whether they had a sufficient of day yet.

[56:54] But I'm saying, if the schedule for next weekend is published on Facebook,

[56:58] then they could, we know, ask them how many did you complete.

[57:01] Well, we only completed two of the, of this six races.

[57:03] Well, that's.

[57:04] Okay.

[57:05] 33%.

[57:05] I wonder why 30%.

[57:07] Why 30%.

[57:08] I don't know why, but that wasn't us, so we didn't go there.

[57:15] What we did add is on page 6.

[57:19] There shall be a maximum of, yeah,

[57:34] that was on our language as well, with the 30%.

[57:38] We took the maximum of 8, whether or not there is an unfinished event,

[57:42] convened for both reads in combined.

[57:44] We took that from the two permits, because that's what it says now.

[57:54] Change anything else.

[58:06] Number

[58:09] 6, we added the public service training during

[58:13] facility hours of operation. I mean as long as the facility is open, they can come and train.

[58:19] Practice tuning and testing and commercial training. We thought the practice and tuning

[58:26] shall be limited to two calendar days per week. Now I don't know if we want to lump the commercial

[58:34] training in here. If we want to have a different days for commercial training, I'm not sure what

[58:43] we should have put commercial training in there.

[58:46] Yeah, so we might, we might have made a mistake there.

[58:49] I don't think that.

[58:49] I would put commercial training in the public service training.

[58:56] We won't have special hours for that.

[58:59] They're the same, they're the same, they're accomplishing the exact same thing.

[59:03] Just two different entities are doing them.

[59:06] My disagree, one of the most public service, the other day,

[59:08] it's people that are facing the pain the facilities to raise the resources.

[59:14] You disagree with that?

[59:17] What?

[59:19] We're trying to consult with control and accessory use.

[59:23] What?

[59:23] What is the difference between public service training and commercial training?

[59:28] If you take out the difference in the type of people that are using it?

[59:32] Well, one of it is public service.

[59:34] No, take that out.

[59:35] Take public service side, take commercial out and look at the thing individually, is it the exact same type of thing going on just two different groups of people using it?

[59:45] That's that's not the thing that I used. A commercial training in my mind would be people that want to learn how to be a race car driver or to

[59:56] professional reasons or it's just fun, they want to sign up for a class.

[1:00:00] And take this training that is available on a commercial basis. So that is probably going to be using vehicles with a much higher noise output than people practicing with an ambulance. So that was the thinking behind that.

[1:00:16] Like somebody like you have the, I don't know, the Ferrari Club of Alexandria or whatever and they come with 10 Ferrari's and they want to, you know, go around and around the race.

[1:00:24] We felt that's, that's more noisy than just a couple of, you know, uh, sheriff's deputies or whoever coming for public service.

[1:00:32] We thought it, it deserved different standards.

[1:01:15] So that's allowed under facility hours.

[1:01:19] Monday through Saturday, 7 to 11 Sunday,

[1:01:25] 11 to 10.

[1:01:26] So

[1:01:33] I think that now that we dig into, you can see that it's not easy.

[1:01:39] I appreciate that you don't like what we've done or some of what we've done, but none of it was done lightly.

[1:01:49] It seems to me just to keep keep moving.

[1:01:52] Number six.

[1:01:54] Oh, first.

[1:01:56] Yes, I might ask.

[1:01:58] Based on the progress has been generated in the last hour.

[1:02:05] In the last months, I'd like to publicly pull the permit from any amendments, and we'll

[1:02:13] operate as is.

[1:02:14] Thank you all for your time, and the money you spent for it with the attorney fee.

[1:02:23] Moving forward to EDA housing self-command.

[1:02:31] Yesterday and

[1:02:48] some brainstorming occurred, but it was basically meeting each other, and going over

[1:02:53] what we felt like were the challenges of affordable housing in the county and

[1:03:02] to start to

[1:03:02] meet and discuss it.

[1:03:04] Looking at all the different grants, maybe, that we could come up with, just basically

[1:03:11] a strategic planning sort of throw it out there.

[1:03:18] The only thing I'd add is that the public hearing for the short-term rentals, which will

[1:03:24] be at the Lary High School, that'll be the same night that the housing study is.

[1:03:28] actually presented by the contractor to the board.

[1:03:40] You're not in motion to adjourn.

[1:03:45] I move we adjourn.

[1:03:47] Motion to be made as a second?

[1:03:48] A second.

[1:03:49] All right.

[1:03:50] Motion to be made as a second.

Planning Commission Work Session

Transcript