[0:04] All right. Good evening everyone. Welcome to the town Council meeting. It is September 14th, 2026 at 6:33 p.m.. We will get this meeting started. First, we will do the Pledge of Allegiance.

[0:24] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the.

[0:27] United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[0:41] All right. We will get started with visitors. Comments. If there's anybody here tonight that wants to talk about something that is not on the agenda, now is your time to come up to the microphone. State your name and address.

[0:57] Speak now or forever hold your peace. Amen. Ross.

[1:02] All right.

[1:03] Seeing none, we will go on to the approval of the meeting minutes from August 10th and August 17th. Does anybody have any comments on the meeting minutes? Adjustments. Okay. I would take a motion to approve meeting minutes for August 10th and August 17th.

[1:24] All right.

[1:25] Motion second.

[1:28] Any other discussion? S3:

[1:31] I have a quorum.

[1:34] So.

[1:35] Um it looks like you were not at the August 10th meeting.

[1:40] Is it your sense? One of the two.

[1:42] Yeah, it was just August 10th meeting. So we can, we can, um, take two separate votes. So I will, um, we'll take a motion for the August 10th meeting.

[1:55] Motion by Carl, second by Jim.

[1:58] Okay. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. One abstention.

[2:03] It should be two for that one. Me and Phil. Okay. Phil and I, I should say. Sorry.

[2:08] Okay.

[2:09] So. Hey. Yeah.

[2:11] Myself.

[2:11] We know what you mean.

[2:13] Yeah. We got you.

[2:14] Okay. Um, so I'll take a motion for the August 17th meeting minutes. Motion in a second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye.

[2:26] Abstention.

[2:26] One abstention.

[2:29] Old business. I see none. We have a couple of minutes before our 640 public hearing. So we'll try to get through as many of these new business items. But we will start with the appointment of Patrick Jessup to the Palmer Redevelopment Authority for a term to June 30th, 2029.

[2:52] Yeah. In the back of packet.

[2:53] You guys have Patrick's information. Um, he would complete the last seat for the PRA and they would be full moving forward. Um, Ben Hood, who is the chair of that committee, uh, recommended Patrick for the position.

[3:05] So great.

[3:08] All right. I'll take a motion to appoint Patrick Jessup to the have a motion and a second. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye.

[3:21] Next, we have, uh, friends of the Council on Aging. Marlene Johnson, Council on Aging. Director, if you want to come up, we have a couple minutes before our public hearing. So if you want to just come up and tell us about that, or Pam, a representative from the board, that would be good.

[3:41] Pam. I haven't seen her in years.

[3:43] No, she looks the same.

[3:49] Um, well, we're we're the new friends group of Palmer senior centers, and we, um, as you can see, uh, we do fundraisers. We have dinners, uh, once a month. Um, we try to engage, um, a lot of the community, uh, we're in the process of, um, trying to get more members. Um, we do have our president here, which is Andy over there, Andy Vance, and we have our secretary, which is, uh, Pat. Prue. Prue. Okay. Um, and I'm just one of the volunteers, uh, I, I cook most of the meals, um, that we have. And that's what our major fundraiser right now in, uh, we had hot dog and bean night one night. Um, we've had, uh, burrito night. Um, and next month in October, we are having the baked potato bar. And you see from our flier, all are welcome. Uh, it's $10 for nonmembers, and you can become a member for $5 for the year. Um, we're encouraging any of the public to become a member to support the, uh.

[5:09] The senior. Well, our group supports the senior center in any way that they need.

[5:14] Great.

[5:15] Um, what night is that again for the potato night?

[5:19] October 14th. It's a Wednesday evening at 430.

[5:23] Oh, no. It's for the children.

[5:24] Oh, and absolutely. Carl.

[5:26] October 14th.

[5:28] Thank you. It's a Wednesday evening, and they all start. Thank you.

[5:31] Thank you.

[5:32] 430.

[5:33] All right.

[5:34] And to be a member, is there an age?

[5:36] No. There's no age required to become a member. Uh, it's $5 for a year.

[5:42] Mhm.

[5:43] Um, and we, uh, you know, we go out into the community and look for new members. Right now, we don't have a lot, but we're very active already. Just starting out as a new group, we're very active.

[5:58] Great. And if somebody is interested in becoming a member, how do they reach out to you?

[6:02] Um, they can call the Palmer Senior Center number and it's, uh, option six. We have our own, um, line and we are out in the community. So, um, you know, if you come to our events, we always have registration there so you can sign up. So, um, you know, all are welcome to sign up and support us. And, um, it's a lot of fun. Great.

[6:28] How are you guys taking feedback on.

[6:30] From the community on what events to run or what to sponsor?

[6:34] Um, well, what to sponsor would really be coming from the senior center, what their needs are. Of course, we're just beginning. So there's not a lot we can do. Um, but whatever they need, we're, we're willing to discuss it and come to a, come to a.

[6:54] Conclusion. And as far as the events that we're doing right now, there's just a small group of us that decide what we need to do. Um, but as that group grows, um, we'd like to get into. Doing trips and things like that. But all of this is going to take time because we're, we're so new and, you know, don't have the money behind us yet. Um, light up. Palmer.

[7:22] Palmer.

[7:22] Business partnership. We are going to be working. I've been in preliminary discussions with Marlene, and we're very happy that they're going to, once again, with the friends, be involved in our downtown community event. And we potentially have a little awkward for you guys, um, to support that event as well, like we did last year.

[7:51] Okay. And reach out to Andy and find out what you need from us. Yeah.

[7:58] You got the potato on.

[8:00] The opposite side. Has the form for.

[8:03] The form.

[8:03] Which players have.

[8:05] No, not this one.

[8:07] Do we have another?

[8:09] It's not.

[8:12] Required. I just turned it over.

[8:15] Yeah. I'm just going to reiterate just because the public can't hear that. So I'll just reiterate. For anybody who's watching that, if you're interested in signing up and you come across one of the fliers for an event, there should be a sign up form on the back and that the group is working with, uh, the Palmer Business Partnership, and we'll be working together to decorate for.

[8:40] No, it's actually, we're going to be, um, potentially permit availability to be able to. Instead of having a for profit food truck vendor.

[8:55] Okay.

[8:56] Um, we're going to donate, um, possibly hot dogs like they do at National Night Out that the friends will be able to benefit from.

[9:07] Oh, great. So there could be a potential donation from the Palmer Business Partnership, which is great. Thank you. Thank you so much. Do you have any other any.

[9:17] No. Any questions for us?

[9:19] Yeah. Anybody have any questions?

[9:20] All right.

[9:21] Great. Thank you so.

[9:22] Much.

[9:22] Yeah. Awesome.

[9:24] Thanks.

[9:24] Great to get you guys out in another, um, place to advertise is, you know, we have a lot of viewers at home and, uh, so hopefully that, that will help. So it is now. 642. So I'm going to jump to item F on our agenda, our public hearing for the fuel storage license application for 250 Shear Street.

[9:49] Just find the language.

[9:58] Do you have the language for that?

[10:13] Oh, I see it now. Nevermind.

[10:14] You're good.

[10:16] Uh, this public hearing is to review and further review and approval of Wellman Realty, LLC. Application for a license to keep use and store liquid propane in three above ground tanks with a total capacity of 3000 gallons at 250 Shear Street, Palmer, Massachusetts. This tank is for the expansion of the Palmer Health Care Center. Um, I'll read the background as well. The application was reviewed and approved by Palmer District one Fire Chief Burnett. State law requires a public hearing and approval by the local licensing authority for propane storage licenses. Legal counsel has advised that the Town Council serves in that role. Therefore, the application is being presented to the Town Council for consideration. The applicant published notice of this public hearing scheduled for the Town Council meeting on September 14th, 2026 in the Journal Register, and has notified all abutting property owners and owners of property directly opposite the site on any public or private street, in accordance with the notice requirements of Mass General Law. Chapter 148, section 13. I will open the public hearing at 644.

[11:39] Is there anybody from the Council with any comments? Questions? S7:

[11:51] They were.

[11:51] Just. Yeah, they already had two storage containers, I think there.

[11:55] Yeah. So it's a mess law.

[11:57] But most towns and communities haven't followed it for years or it's it's fairly new. So we're trying to do the right thing for the safety of the fire department and the community by filling this out. The fire department knows exactly what's there, where it is. So as we come across these, we're trying to fix them and anything new. But like you said, there has been two there for years. Right.

[12:22] So so it's just an expansion to a third because of the expansion on the property. Gotcha.

[12:27] Okay. This is for the Palmer Health Care. By law. They have to have a generator 24 over seven. So I'll assist with that. And the kitchen.

[12:35] Awesome.

[12:36] So there was two in the new area in the construction area on the ground.

[12:42] The two existing that are there that they're going to be, um, moved this week and the three new ones will be put on the new pad.

[12:50] Okay. So they're going to be above ground, not buried.

[12:52] Yeah. All above ground.

[12:53] Okay. Thank you.

[12:55] That's all I had.

[12:57] Anybody here from the public for comment?

[13:02] Seeing none. I will close this public hearing at 6:46 p.m..

[13:09] Sounds good. Thank you.

[13:10] Thank you.

[13:11] Do we have to?

[13:13] There's no vote on that, right?

[13:14] Um, I would say.

[13:15] Just a hearing.

[13:16] Right. No, there needs to be a vote by because you guys are technically the licensing authority on this, right? So there should be a vote that follows that.

[13:22] Okay.

[13:23] So I have another different line item then a vote. Well, um.

[13:28] Technically yes, but.

[13:30] We'll make it.

[13:31] The purpose. We know what the purpose of this was.

[13:32] Time limit. After the public hearing that you voted on.

[13:36] For ordinance changes and loan authorizations. Yes.

[13:40] Okay.

[13:41] Good.

[13:41] Yeah.

[13:42] Yeah.

[13:42] Okay. I will make a motion to approve Wellman Realty, LLC application for a license to keep use and store liquid propane in three above ground tanks with a total capacity of 3000 gallons at 250 Shear Street. Palmer, Massachusetts. Uh, for the for the expansion of the Palmer Health Care Center.

[14:05] Do I have a second? S7:

[14:11] Okay.

[14:11] Amendment with the amended motion, we have a motion and a second.

[14:21] Any further discussion? All in favor? S14:

[14:24] Okay.

[14:25] Amen.

[14:27] Thank you. Thank you.

[14:28] Thank you.

[14:29] Now we will move back up to item C, ordinance 2027-04. The chapter 145 Stormwater Management Ordinance revision. First read. Jess and Tracy. Adam Adamsky. At Ty and Bond. Thank you.

[14:54] Do you want to stand.

[14:57] By.

[14:58] Their seats? If you want. We have plenty of room.

[15:00] So I forgot when it was we came. I came before you to present the first read, but that was a little while ago. So now we're here with the second read, and we have.

[15:13] Does everybody have the revisions in front of them? S7:

[15:15] This is the one that's large development projects starts it.

[15:20] Yeah, yeah. So again it says chapter 145. But if you're looking at E code, the number is going to be a little different. So we're just making sure we're all looking at the same document.

[15:32] 145 yeah, I'm not sure. So Tracy is here who helped draft this and was she's been here all along the way throughout all the years. So has a lot of background knowledge, if anybody has any questions.

[15:48] Can you just do a general review of what went into it process?

[15:52] Sure.

[15:54] So you had an existing stormwater management by our ordinance already in place. So this is um I think I've been in front of some of you like before talking about the um, municipal separate storm sewer systems, the ms4. So this bylaw came out of, or this ordinance came out of the ms4 requirements from EPA. A new permit came out in 2016 that had some additional requirements to go into local ordinances. So, um, a number of years ago now, we started taking a look at the overall ordinances to see if there were some changes, because changes had to be made to meet the new Ms4 permit.

[16:55] Were there some additional changes to be made? So the previous um iteration of the stormwater management ordinances followed the site plan approval S17:

[18:19] Okay.

[18:21] Um, so I have on the agenda and in our packet that this is a first read.

[18:28] Is that right?

[18:29] It is because we wanted to hold the we didn't want to have the first reading, last meeting because Tracy wasn't on available to be here now that she is. I'd want to have like this is meant for any questions and answers the board may have. Okay. Um, to bring that forward right now. Okay. Because what I really want to do is I want to go to the public hearing, having it finalized because Tracy also will not be at the public hearing.

[18:52] Okay. Understood.

[18:54] So we're doing a first reading on this version because this is not a clean version. This is the doctored version that you gave to us in our packet.

[19:03] That's what was asked for.

[19:05] So this is not clean.

[19:06] But it has the does it have redline edits in it?

[19:08] Well, yeah, that's what I mean. It's not. You would do a first reading on a completed document wouldn't you?

[19:13] Not necessarily.

[19:15] Okay.

[19:16] Necessarily. Because if you're tracking you want to know what's being changed, right. These are so long. I don't want you guys to have to do side by side of. Well, there's.

[19:23] Definitely a lot more than administrative changes in here. There's huge chunks that have been blocked out and changed to different verbiage, obviously, and things that have changed over the years, and I understand why, but it's not. It's not digestible the way it is. I mean, for anybody else but us.

[19:40] Yeah.

[19:41] Well, I think that this can be um if this were posted for public consumption, it would be the, you know, the edits would be taken off and it would just be.

[19:53] The regular document.

[19:54] Right. So I guess the difference between treating this as a first read or just treating this as a draft would be if there was substantial changes from tonight.

[20:06] From what's proposed tonight to the next. Understood. It'll go back to a first read.

[20:10] So basically, if we if we don't have any substantial changes, that would really change what's proposed here, then we can move forward as as normal. But if there were to be a substantial change, then we would probably.

[20:24] Start over again. Exactly. And I didn't want to get to technically, this could have been the public hearing for this, but if there's changes, I don't want to have to restart this all over again.

[20:33] Got it. Yeah.

[20:34] Now there's been talk.

[20:35] Public hearing. Should have the final draft, right?

[20:38] Right.

[20:39] Yeah.

[20:39] Not exactly.

[20:40] Yeah.

[20:41] So there was talk about us monetizing the stormwater permitting process and things like that. Are we. We're not going there yet.

[20:49] Not the permitting process. That was the stormwater utility. I think you're referring to.

[20:53] Yeah. There was something that we were talking about.

[20:55] Right. And so I think that might have been part of the reason why this never went forward in the past was because it was kind of looked at as one thing when they're completely separate entities. So an ordinance that you have in place for, um, looking at projects and making sure that everybody's, you know, managing their stormwater on site and making sure that during construction, they're not allowing their stormwater to, you know, erode their neighbor's property and things like that. Whereas the utility would have been a different type of stormwater fee with that has to do with the amount of impervious surface currently on your property.

[21:27] That's what I meant.

[21:28] Yeah. Which you could look at right now at any point in time, you know what I mean? It's not like it has to do with new.

[21:34] And that has nothing. I'm just trying to differentiate between the two. Okay. We're not even talking about that. Okay. Perfect.

[21:40] And so I think that might have been the issue in the past, but that unfortunately it wasn't clarified. So then.

[21:46] Absolutely.

[21:48] Perfect.

[21:51] Um, I just had a question about the stormwater authority. Is it typical for the planning board to be, um the stormwater authority of the permits.

[22:03] For.

[22:03] Large scale.

[22:04] Scale?

[22:05] Yeah, yeah.

[22:06] It's really up to the community. I've seen a number of different iterations, but a number of communities do have planning boards as.

[22:15] It depends on your staff. So, you know, some communities on their planning staff, they have a separate stormwater person, person that might look like a DP like Department of Public Works almost. But sure. Um, you know, because we have one, basically one full time staff member, right? We have to wear different hats.

[22:33] Yeah. Okay.

[22:35] Well, I would not disagree with that. Only because they are the ones that approve the site plan. And I'm sure that stormwater has to do with the site plan, a huge part of it. Right.

[22:43] So yeah.

[22:45] Right.

[22:46] And the planning board was the original entity in your previous iteration of your ordinance.

[22:52] Perfect. Sounds good.

[22:53] Great.

[22:54] Sir, any other questions from the council? Okay, so I'll read. Um, I'll just read the language as this is the first read. Uh, so amendment to the zoning Code of Ordinances of the town of Palmer. Uh, this would be Town Ordinance 2027-04. This is an ordinance amending the Code of Ordinances of the Town of Palmer. Chapter 145 Stormwater Management. The amendment updates and modernizes the town's stormwater Management ordinance to clarify requirements. strengthen compliance with state and federal ms4 regulations, and better protect public health, safety and water resources. It revises definitions, updates, permitting thresholds, and refines approval and permitting procedures. The ordinances also strengthen standards for erosion control, stormwater design, inspections, maintenance and enforcement to ensure stormwater systems remain effective throughout a project's life. As this is the first reading, no vote will be taken at this time. A public hearing will be held at the next regular meeting. A full copy of the ordinance is available for public inspection at the office of the Town Manager.

[24:09] Okay.

[24:13] Thank you. Thank you.

[24:15] Thank you.

[24:19] All right.

[24:21] So up next, we have Three Rivers Junction structure report findings and In recommendations. Ken Lord, wastewater treatment plant superintendent, and Dan Holmes and Matt Kirk tie in bond.

[24:36] Good evening everybody.

[24:38] Hello.

[24:39] Hello.

[24:43] There we go.

[24:45] Yeah.

[24:47] Um.

[24:48] You guys both want to sit? No. It's okay. That's okay.

[24:51] I'm going to try to keep it brief. Uh, we were here not that long ago, so a couple of months ago. We have talked about this project in the past. Um, we also talked about the Thorndyke Syphons project. So just have a quick little slide show to talk through this project specifically and what the next steps are. Um.

[25:15] So I don't know if you guys, do you guys see this on your tablets?

[25:20] Oh, we.

[25:20] Have.

[25:20] A copy. We also.

[25:22] Have.

[25:22] Yeah.

[25:22] I'm not looking at me.

[25:23] No no no.

[25:25] Through you. It's okay. Yes.

[25:28] All right. So here's the site. Those blue lines there. Um, that was the original project area where we CCTV. You have an eight inch PVC coming in from the east side. That pipe was in good condition. You have a 30 inch RCP coming in from the north side. That was also in good condition. Uh, we did only CCTV that one stretch and I'll talk about that a little bit more later. Uh, we also looked at the siphon, but then we also looked at this 30 inch RCP to the south, and that's where the CCTV revealed a lot of corrosion. And we did some additional investigation, um, which is shown right here on this slide. We ended up going back in TV ING the remainder of the line all the way up to Main Street.

[26:22] Okay. So the siphon and head structure. This is a three barrel siphon.

[26:29] On the first picture on the left, the left hand side. That is a 18 inch pipe. The middle one is a 12 inch, and the one on the right is a 24. That middle pipe is a 12 inch, but it is out of service because when we evaluated this previously, the bottom of that pipe was actually missing. So the goal is to reinstate that and line that so it's back in service. Uh, quick photo of the actual siphon structure. I think we saw this in the past. Uh, you can very corroded. Um, you can see the concrete there a lot of spalling. Uh, so back in 2020, April 2026, uh, we did the report on this. We evaluated it and we looked at whether we could rehab it or replace it. And the costs were pretty similar between the two because it was in such poor shape. So we recommended the rehab replacement. Uh, we. Sorry. We recommended the replacement. Sorry.

[27:38] This is the actual. So there's your siphon pipes. Three barrels. The photo is just the 12 inch. That's not being used right now. The bottom of the pipe. It's kind of hard to see. It's a little blurry is actually missing. And then there's some pipe and some wood that's in there that will have to be removed during construction.

[28:01] Uh, going back to the interceptor. So when we came back out in CCTV, the remainder of that 30 inch line to the south, these were some of the photos that came back. You can see down on the bottom of that, on the photo on the left, the bottom of the pipe is showing a pretty good solid concrete pipe there. As you go up where the remainder of the pipe is exposed to HH2S, you can see the heavy corrosion, so much so that it's spalled the concrete and you actually have some rebar. Some of the wire mesh reinforcement shown there that's obviously rusting as well, which really gives the pipe a lot most of its strength. So we getting that repaired as soon as possible is what the goal is. Um, and yeah, the, and how to repair that we're looking to first clean it, but then put a zip liner that's cured in place pipe weiner. Uh, so that that liner, once it goes in and cures, uh, it has significant strength so that if the hose pipe actually wasn't there, it would be strong enough to withstand loads above it.

[29:21] Um, so then on the north side, this, this one actually was in much better shape than the south side. So there's no planned work for that first segment. But the, uh, treatment plant we are planning on as it goes to the north, it runs up through a easement that has lots of trees, hasn't been accessed in a while. So we are looking to do a project there that cleans out those easements to give the sewer department access to those manholes. And then once access is restored, then we'll get back in there and CCTV those pipes to make sure they're in good shape, like the first segment. But that's since the first segment is in good shape. We're hoping the remainder is.

[30:08] Uh, and this was just a photo of PVC pipe. You know, it's a plastic pipe, very smooth wall, much better shape than, uh, RCP.

[30:19] And finally project cost. This was in the report. Um.

[30:27] This includes the design, the permitting and construction. We do have a 40% contingency which is relatively high, but we haven't really advanced the design too far. So we don't we haven't really narrowed down the exact cost there. Um, you know, we're at 2.87. We're kind of saying maybe consider 3 million, um, for the overall project costs. You know, fuel's going up. That's going to have direct impacts on construction. So.

[31:01] All right. So that's essentially the project. Uh, and then we provided a proposal for you saw that. And that's to get us through the design and permitting to have a package ready for bidding, uh, that will include subsurface geotech explorations. A full survey of the area. Design. Once we get to 60% design, we'll 6070. We'll have a package ready to be presented in front of the permitting folks get the permitting going, and then we can move to final design once the permitting has been finished.

[31:40] And what's the timeline on this?

[31:44] All of it. All of it.

[31:45] The short term and the long term.

[31:48] Yeah. So we budgeted for like 12 weeks for preliminary design. That would be get the contract signed. Coordinate with our subs which is the surveyor Geotech. Have them get out there. Uh.

[32:04] Once we have all that information, we'll have meetings, talk through it, make sure we're all on the same page for the project scope, and then advance that to the 60%. We probably need another 12 weeks to get there. Once we get to that point, we can start the permitting process.

[32:26] The permitting. It can be lengthy sometimes not just local conservation. If we have to go to other permitting agencies. Um, so some of that can be concurrent with the design. So it's not like we get to 60% stop everything then permit, don't do anything, wait for permitting and then keep going. We'll be able to continue to advance. So that's where I guess we don't probably have a real good timeline. It gets co-mingled there.

[33:02] Um, so do we say it's 24, S12:

[33:12] So without permitting, you're talking March or April.

[33:19] Will, at a minimum, have it submitted. Some of those review times. And if they ask for revisions and we have to resubmit it, it may take longer than that to actually get the final approved permits.

[33:33] I got a question. How full is that pipe as it's going up? You use a jargon word.

[33:45] Uh, the top part is that, uh, going bad because of the gases or the liquid? S12:

[34:10] And where do they dissipate or where do they leave out of that pipe? The gases. Is there vents or.

[34:17] So it will usually leave through anywhere that. There's an open manhole covers that you see on the road. The junction structure that's actually at the end of Riverside. Um, that's experiencing a lot of it to where it's off gassing before it goes into the siphons. And so there's a lot of the covers on that structure that are actually seized shut, for lack of a better term, because the gases have corroded it so bad that you can't even open the covers.

[34:40] Yeah. Boom.

[34:41] So yeah.

[34:42] So and then.

[34:43] With the sewer system, a lot of homes are connected to the sewer system, right? So gases can travel up those laterals and out the stacks.

[34:53] The thing on the toilet has that loop. So the gases.

[34:56] Prevent gas from going to the house. It goes up the stack and yeah, yeah. Yep.

[35:00] Thank you.

[35:00] So with this from my own thoughts.

[35:02] Good question.

[35:04] Um, these repairs, how long are they, you know, guaranteed.

[35:13] What's your warranty on this?

[35:15] Depends how many times you flush.

[35:17] No, I'm just curious. You know.

[35:19] What's the existing? The existing one was.

[35:22] The existing one was put in in.

[35:24] 70s when the plant was built.

[35:26] Right.

[35:26] I'm getting.

[35:27] Yeah, 1970, 1976.

[35:30] Yeah.

[35:30] The 70s when it was originally.

[35:32] So 50 years is.

[35:33] Yeah.

[35:33] So what you're replacing.

[35:35] It with is not.

[35:36] Like.

[35:36] It's.

[35:36] Not material.

[35:38] So we're gonna be replacing it with stuff like the, the CIP lining that he was talking about that is corrosion resistant. It's made of stuff that won't get affected by H2S gas. And then when we replace the design, the siphon structure to be replaced, we're actually going to line that siphon structure with an H2S resistant coating before it goes in place and goes.

[35:55] This could be 75 years.

[35:57] So the hope is that we will never have to worry about that.

[36:00] We'll be fine. Yeah. Okay. I figure this isn't going to come up again in a couple of years. I'm just trying to ask.

[36:07] Are there any inputs from that line from Main Street to the siphon because it goes through the AmVets property.

[36:14] Right there. Local collectors that go back out to Main Street before comes in here that that.

[36:18] So that pipe is just a straight shot to the to the siphon.

[36:21] Correct.

[36:22] So there's that's pretty much that's going to save us too, because that's if it's just a straight shot, then you don't have to worry about any other connections having to cut those connections and get them in and. Correct. Got it.

[36:32] Yeah.

[36:35] Yeah. So RCP pipe isn't generally used for sewers anymore. Years ago it was this was a little different system. It was a combined sewer. So you had stormwater and sewage. So several of those factors.

[36:49] Back when you had the stormwater, that pipe was always full.

[36:52] During rain events.

[36:53] Yeah.

[36:53] Well.

[36:54] We were still using lead paint back then. So things have progressed.

[36:58] Yeah.

[36:58] We've all eaten.

[37:00] The green pipe. That's the PVC.

[37:02] We're doing good.

[37:02] Yeah we're fine. We ate lead.

[37:03] Pretty much so.

[37:04] Doesn't have the corrosive properties.

[37:06] How do you spell that?

[37:09] Great. Does anybody have any other questions?

[37:12] Um. Sorry.

[37:14] Actually, the very last part of the thing you were saying, you have to clear a section for them to be able to have access.

[37:26] And you weren't able to scan that section? S18:

[37:28] Where?

[37:29] Yeah. So it goes up.

[37:30] We're hoping and praying. Theoretically it could be a problem up there.

[37:36] Absolutely. It could be a problem. Yes. Because.

[37:38] So everybody knows. Look, I mean, you're hoping. But just because you're hoping doesn't mean it's so correct.

[37:45] The first segment wasn't showing the same signs. Right. But maybe when you get around the corner, for whatever reason, there was more gas and it is RCP pipe, so it could be in poor shape.

[37:55] I just just so everybody is like, look. Oh, they said it should be okay. But you're hoping it is, but you don't know yet. Yeah.

[38:03] And we need to get the TV cameras in there.

[38:06] Just trying to come back.

[38:07] Is there a plan to get the cameras down there at a later date or.

[38:12] To clear it.

[38:13] Out? Just got to get the easements kind of finalized. Make sure all the easements are in place before you go back there and clear.

[38:21] Okay.

[38:21] Is this like a in the next six months, three years, like, what are we talking about?

[38:26] Right now we're finishing.

[38:27] Up the surveying.

[38:29] Of it.

[38:30] Then we'll be back here. You're going to have to give us a proposal for their part of it. Uh, wetlands. A lot of wetlands in there. Uh, I was I'm hoping by next July we can start having all this stuff cleared up.

[38:46] Okay.

[38:48] And then the last thing I have is that the study that we did, the rate study. This was not included. You guys may not be aware, but we did a rate study for the sewer users because all these projects are falling on just the sewer users. Right. Right. So so there's a lot of money. So So was that included in the original? I don't I know it was found at the time. Right. I don't know if there was a number in the.

[39:15] Probably not to this magnitude.

[39:17] That's why I'm.

[39:18] Asking. Like.

[39:19] We didn't know the South line was bad at all. Right? That was that was part of the study. So yeah, the full magnitude probably was not.

[39:27] I think we did. Did we have an amendment to the study? The rate.

[39:31] Study?

[39:31] No, I don't remember.

[39:32] We did. So I look back at this. There was I think you guys did it in 2020. Yeah. And then in 2023, there was an update to a revision. I looked I just brought this up the other day. We're actually, I think $50. Don't quote me on that, but it's somewhere around $50 less per edu than what we would have been if we followed the rate study to a t. Yeah. So we're actually not even charging where the rate study had us for this fiscal year.

[39:56] Well, that's a problem already.

[39:58] Yes and no. Some things may have if we can, we know nothing.

[40:01] Well, we know that things fell off the list because we've been nicking off the things that on the low hanging fruit. Right? But then there's things like this that are not there that it's going to drive that. So being $50 short at this point now, knowing that there's maybe a three, $3 million hit.

[40:16] That's not.

[40:18] Going.

[40:20] To be determined to.

[40:21] Be determined. Right? TBD. But still, it's a concern.

[40:24] Some of it is going to be taken out, right? Like, right. Tonight we have a proposal. The proposal is coming out of sewer surplus. Right. So that's not directly increasing.

[40:33] Ratepayers have set that money aside.

[40:35] Right.

[40:36] The design the design monies squared away. That's not a new request that's already covered. Right. If we go when we go for construction costs, that's a loan that will be passed on to the ratepayers. That is that is true.

[40:47] Is there a possibility that we can I don't know what the cost is and I'm not throwing it out there, but can you see how much a cost would be to update the study with the things that have fallen off the list? And then this proposed.

[40:58] We we have it, we have it updated. Um, my struggle with that was bringing forward was it was pretty expensive, uh, to bring it back, but we just we just did a revision.

[41:08] Hold on, hold on.

[41:09] We just did a revision in 2023. So I think internally we should be able to work with tying bond on this. Okay. To, to kind of bring that closer to where it needs to be. We can do another one, but, uh, no.

[41:21] No, I don't.

[41:21] Want to pay for another one if we don't have to. But I'm saying that it's definitely important to know where we're going to land. And for the people that have to pay the bill to know where that rate is going to go so that they can prepare for it before.

[41:33] As you guys know, whenever we go for a bond authorization, we tell, we notify, we, we put out there what the rate impact is going to be.

[41:39] No, I understand that. But you're talking it's going to be for only the sewer users though. It's it's such a small.

[41:44] Every borrowing we do for sewer for wastewater treatment plant is for sewer users. Right. So we're going to maintain the status quo process on this. We're not doing anything different than what we've done in the past on these borrowings. It just is. We need the design before we get the actual number understood. So right now the request is the next item on the agenda is for using source surplus. So that's money that ratepayers have already paid, that we saved from last year or the year before is money that we're storing away.

[42:11] Hold on one second, Chris and I have a question.

[42:14] But but hold on one second.

[42:15] It's like everything else we have.

[42:17] To.

[42:18] Ask a taxpayer and as a user, and this is nothing against you people because you do a great job. Potentially. They don't allow you to to overlook or look at the entire sewer system. We have now spent close to $10 million on that sewer treatment plant, and it was in need because this board ignored what was the problem up there. I pay, and I believe we look at potentially $1,000 increase per household over five years.

[42:57] When the.

[42:58] When a lot of money.

[42:59] When the permit when the permit comes online.

[43:01] I'm sorry. I come to these meetings and every time it's a sewer problem and nobody tells us the truth about it. And you guys, Matt is on board. He's right on target as to what needs to be done. If you look in past town council meetings, this meeting, this issue has not been addressed since the late 90s into the 2000. And nothing has happened in our rates as sewer users increases and increases. You're taking surplus money out of here. I'd like to know what the total surplus is out of my tax dollars.

[43:44] I can tell you what the aggregate is. It's 2 million.

[43:50] 2,238,000.

[43:52] It seems to me that we're being overcharged to sewer users. I'm sorry. I have to leave this meeting. I am too upset. Every time. Phil, you last time you wrote it to hold it back until you looked at it more. And then the board just overstepped. It passed everything and very little has been done. Last town council meeting. I'll come to you.

[44:14] Okay.

[44:15] Jan, I think you had a question.

[44:16] I do. Um, this 3 million proposal here is that strictly for Sawyers and Three Rivers or all.

[44:26] Everything flows because.

[44:28] The.

[44:28] 95% of all the town's flow comes through that structure.

[44:32] Yeah. Okay.

[44:33] So as far as the sewer system reaches, unless it's on the same side of the wastewater treatment plan, which the majority of our town is on the opposite side of the river from the treatment plant, then everything else flows so big. Why the dealership? All of our neighborhoods.

[44:52] So with the 2 million surplus, you said there was 2.2. Okay.

[44:57] But again, we're not we're not even the three millions, not even on the table for tonight, so I don't want to. We're only talking about the design portion today. That's all we're looking for.

[45:04] How much are we looking for in that 227?

[45:06] There was an error on the um posting. It's 220 227 600. 227,600 is.

[45:15] The.

[45:15] Request. This is the study.

[45:16] For the design.

[45:17] Design?

[45:18] Yes.

[45:18] The design will then tell us. Is there going to be more needed. And we'll have a better number to come back to you guys for an actual bond authorization.

[45:28] Okay.

[45:30] Any other questions or comments? Ken? Anything?

[45:35] The only thing I can say is that.

[45:39] We should act on this because the farther we go, the more expensive it's going to get. Just like the roof project we did, if we would have did the roof 7 or 8 years ago, it would have been significantly cheaper than what we just did last year. Yeah, you can't keep pushing this stuff down the road because what's going to happen next year, our permits up and then EPA comes out and gives us a new permit. There's going to be a lot of mandates that we cannot make because our plant was built in 1976. So they're going to give us probably five years to come up to compliance. Then they're going to start hitting us with fines. Uh, we have to keep being proactive on this because if we keep just shove them underneath the carpet, it's, it's eventually it's going to be one big bomb.

[46:28] Yeah.

[46:30] And why we build up sewer surplus is to one cover us for large liabilities. If we have a break somewhere and we have to cover it like we have to pay for it. So you build up a reserve account to cover that stuff. Um, and again, I think this number, even if you look at the rate, the revision rate study that was done in 2023 is still less than what they were proposing for a surplus dollar amount. So, um, I just want to clarify that piece.

[46:54] That back.

[46:54] To the slide to add the numbers on it, please.

[46:59] Thank you.

[47:04] So again, we'll circle back to this once we get to the closer to the design. 60% will have a better idea on what the numbers is. This is just a very preliminary estimate from you guys what the data you have right now. But we're not asking for any authorization on this right now.

[47:17] Okay.

[47:19] Great.

[47:20] And we've known that this has been a major issue for a couple of years now. And I think that the that the town council has been, um, continuously interested in getting this kind of information and.

[47:32] Getting.

[47:32] It proactive on all of this. And I hope I'm not misspeaking, especially when this was dropped in the lap, because all of a sudden, for some weird reason, it finally had got inspected and seen that it was leaking and it hadn't been looked at in years. So, um, everybody is doing what they can do. And I also think that you do need to have a better maintenance program. Like, okay, you're going to look at that other section there. Um, how long is the good stuff going to last? You know, when should we be prepared to be taking care of that? But that stuff down there was discovered by accident. A lot of that stuff. So.

[48:18] That Phil has a good point though. You're saying that the easement is overgrown, right. So how long has it been since we've even.

[48:26] Looked in there.

[48:27] Looked down here 27 years and it has not been touched. There we go.

[48:31] Right.

[48:32] So and that's probably.

[48:33] How can we expect stuff to last and the council to act on stuff and do something when you know what was that old show. Carnac with the crystal ball. Yeah, yeah. We don't have that.

[48:47] So it's like everything else. It's a balancing act. Right? We try to keep the rates down as.

[48:52] Low.

[48:52] As.

[48:52] We can. Yeah. And listen, I understand. I understand her frustration and stuff, but I think something's brought to our attention here. We do what we can do. And again, nothing we you know, we need a better maintenance type program to where. Look it's not oh, hey, look, I opened up the fridge. Oh, man.

[49:13] Fridge ain't been running for a week, you know, right? S16:

[49:13] It shouldn't be 27 years since we, you know.

[49:16] Right. No, I.

[49:17] I don't disagree with any of that. I just think you guys do deserve credit because we did. Going through the rate analysis is a big step. Not every community that you guys probably work with does that.

[49:27] We probably did drag our heels. As I remember, we had money set aside or whatever, and you had to go back and look and see if that money was still from.

[49:36] Yeah.

[49:37] Or whatever that money had ever been used or not.

[49:40] So yeah.

[49:41] We had to reauthorize it. No, I, I get it. Yeah, I get it. But again, it's, it's, we try to stall these projects as much as we can sometime to our own detriment. And that's what we have to figure out a way forward on that stuff. So and that's what the capital plan does. It gives us that ten year outlook. We try to map it out. Things change. We can push them back. Some get moved forward. And this is one that we have to.

[50:01] Cover with.

[50:01] The.

[50:02] Thing here. So these poor gentlemen don't have to sit here and listen to the town backlash.

[50:07] Good to.

[50:07] Hear.

[50:08] And you're not the only municipality dealing with this.

[50:11] No.

[50:12] I'm sure Tony warned you.

[50:15] No, but Brad's point, it's a balancing act. You can increase rates extremely high, and then you have enough money to do everything or keep them lower, and then you're maybe not keeping up. So it's.

[50:26] Yeah.

[50:26] And like, what was it, Pat? She was just a Patricia there before we had town managers when I first became a councilor.

[50:39] Donovan selectman.

[50:41] Yeah. She was in charge.

[50:43] Donovan.

[50:44] Yes. Thank you. Anyways, her saying was, look, do the best you can do. You're never going to please everybody. It's the bottom line. Just do the best that you can do.

[50:57] And I mean, just to close this out, I think again, we've done a good job of being proactive and going after grants. If we get the the one stop grant that's going to cover hopefully up to $5 million of a project, uh, eight, seven, $8 million project that would have been passed on to the ratepayers as a whole.

[51:13] And that's already on the study.

[51:15] Right? Is that already included in the study? Right.

[51:17] So what the rate was for that right then, but it's only gone up. Everything only goes up obviously.

[51:21] But I'm saying but once we can knock things off the list like we have been doing with grants and things like that, then obviously that impact is less on the on the ratepayers and more back on their pockets. And we don't have to raise the rate. Like you said, we're $50 less than where we should be right now, which is a good thing and a bad thing, right? You know, you can look at it one way. Maybe that extra $50 could help fund more infrastructure projects, but on the other hand, it's $50 more in everybody's pocket.

[51:46] Exactly.

[51:47] So, um, and is the is the diff helping with any of these?

[51:51] Um, it eventually will, it still needs time to build up. But yeah, that's the goal of it for improvements for infrastructure. Yes, absolutely.

[51:57] Perfect.

[51:58] So there we are, you know, trying to be prudent when we think about the rates. Um, but also these, these projects need to get done. So thank you. Uh, up next on the agenda we have resolution number 2027-05.

[52:15] What I was going.

[52:15] To say, I was going to say we need a vote on this, don't we?

[52:18] Yeah. Okay.

[52:18] That's a separate.

[52:20] Yep. I'm with you.

[52:21] Um, ahead of the game.

[52:22] I am a little ahead.

[52:23] The resolution is to authorize a transfer of $227,600 from sewer surplus account number 244-32900

[52:35] to the Three Rivers junction structure. Account account number 30443261.

[52:43] Do I have a motion?

[52:45] Second.

[52:46] We have a motion and a second.

[52:50] Any discussion? All those in favor? S16:

[52:52] Opposed? Abstention. All right. Fine. Two. There you go. Thank you guys.

[53:04] Thank you.

[53:04] Guys. Have a gold.

[53:07] Golden tide.

[53:08] Signing it right now.

[53:09] Yes.

[53:11] Okay.

[53:16] Yep.

[53:18] Now to item G on the agenda. The zoning amendment at 1290 Park Street. Map 56-77, parcel B from town residential to highway business. This will be a referral to the planning board. But Brad, if if you want to.

[53:35] Yeah, I.

[53:35] Actually, um, until this gets kicked back to us, I didn't do a ton of review on it. I only know that it's the northern construction. Um, northern tree. Excuse me, uh, Lot that they're looking for some rezoning on it. So again, we just refer. To the Planning board. Then they come back with their recommendation to us.

[53:52] Okay.

[53:53] I find it hard to believe that it'd be residential there on the highway business strip.

[53:56] There is. It's mixed.

[53:57] It's mixed.

[53:58] Well. Yeah. Because I think right.

[53:59] There's two houses.

[54:00] There's a couple houses.

[54:01] Behind it, but not on park.

[54:02] But yeah.

[54:03] Yeah. You got between the old Chabot's and Northern construction. You have two houses or house right there on the corner.

[54:12] Right.

[54:12] That's Allen Street, right.

[54:15] That one that goes behind.

[54:16] Yeah. Behind Gurley's Grill and.

[54:19] Got the flea market guy.

[54:21] What is he going to do with the two houses. Do you know just mow them down or what.

[54:25] Two houses.

[54:27] Behind the. Oh they do.

[54:28] One.

[54:28] Of.

[54:28] Them. So you got to do it quick.

[54:30] No.

[54:32] Okay. Um so do I have a motion to refer this zoning amendment. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Abstentions.

[54:49] And, um. Next on the agenda we have resolution 2027-06 authorization for Property Conveyance and Easement Agreement with 2022 Main Street, LLC. Brad.

[55:03] Yep.

[55:04] So, um, Justin, feel free to come up if you want to talk through any of this. Um, but the background on this is, um, as you guys know, there's a public parking lot behind Riverbend laundry. Um, we've been for a while now. I think this is going on over a year. I think we've been in contact of trying to figure out how to move forward with this. So we were working with legal counsel on trying to come up with a way that we could sell a piece of that parcel. We don't want to give up the whole thing, obviously. And I've had conversations with you about eventually building that out, putting a, a drive like.

[55:34] A.

[55:34] Area.

[55:35] Recreational area. So you can sit by the, you can look down at the water. You could grab a quick bite to eat over there. Something of that. This does not impede that. This would be directly behind where the laundromat is right now. Um, primarily that area is used for a Riverbend customers anyway, so it's not necessarily a loss to the town. What the town would gain through this is we would work with Justin and his team in Riverbend. Uh, and being able to utilize, um, there's a walkway right in between, uh, the property right now that brings you right to Main Street. That that's what we're interested in obtaining. So rather than right now, if you park in that parking lot, you have to walk away, walk around the whole way to the corner of Burgundy Brook to get to the main street. This would allow us a full walk in. So you are literally right on the corner of Riverbend. There's a little, uh, Ada accessible sidewalk right there that you can cut over. And your two, I use it as lavallette. If I'm a grandparent, I'm a parent going and I need overflow parking from Lavallette, I can park back there and walk through the whole main street. I can cut over in between the two buildings, take a slight right, cut across the street and I'm right to lavallette. So to me, this is a win win for the town, because we can advertise it as a public walkway. That'll be part of the easement. And it's a win for Riverbend because they can pave this area and it'll be dedicated parking for Riverbend.

[57:00] We have a map of this.

[57:01] I was going to say it should be included. It does not.

[57:03] It's not in here. I was going to say the map is not included in the packet because it says that to convey the entitled proposed parking plan expansion.

[57:12] We can pull it up.

[57:12] Is he.

[57:14] Is.

[57:14] It not between Ramadan's.

[57:16] And.

[57:16] Well, that's what I was going to ask. Are you talking about the property between Ramadan's and Riverbend?

[57:21] It's not necessarily that property because we don't own in between. We own behind.

[57:26] That. Correct.

[57:27] So we'll show you on the map. It'll all.

[57:29] Because I know, Mr. Diaz.

[57:31] I know that you guys just did. On the right hand side, you guys did that whole area where you had tenant parking, right? And you put that nice area in parking.

[57:38] Lot for the drugstore.

[57:40] Okay.

[57:41] Do you, uh. Is it one of these crazy maps are.

[57:47] Building.

[57:50] Oh, so it is on the right side of the building. So that new area that you put in the nice sidewalk and the grass area in between the smock building and your building. Okay. Yes.

[58:01] We're so close. Nope.

[58:03] Exactly. And we can advertise that that's a public, accessible walkway. Okay.

[58:07] It brings you to be.

[58:08] Used.

[58:08] To be able to drive through there. No.

[58:09] You used to be able to. Yes.

[58:10] It was Keith and Horgan's.

[58:11] Yes. Yes. And then, Mr. Diaz, they, um. Yeah, they did a site plan adjustment and they. Yeah.

[58:17] They used.

[58:18] To be. No it isn't.

[58:19] Now through there to get into the parking lot.

[58:21] Yeah, yeah. Now it's a walkway. Now it's a walkway with grass and everything. They did a really nice job. I want to see it, to see it.

[58:29] I'm not as old as you. I don't remember all these old names, so.

[58:32] So it looks like it's from the corner of that property back. So we'll still retain the town parking behind those buildings up against the fence, and then we're. And we'll still have the town land that we cleared on the corner. We're not giving up any. Yeah. So it's just the sliver that's behind his building. Perfect. I got you.

[58:51] Yeah, exactly.

[58:51] Right here.

[58:52] It's used by primarily customers for Riverbend anyway, so it makes sense. Yeah.

[58:58] Right. So are you planning on going all the way behind Ramadan's with it?

[59:02] Yeah.

[59:02] Our parcel doesn't run that far.

[59:04] Oh it doesn't.

[59:05] I mean, it it.

[59:05] It.

[59:06] It doesn't run up to the Ramadan's building, I should say. There's still a buffer back there that is owned by whoever it's owned, not by the town. But this will run along the right hand side parallel to it. Exactly. Yeah. Got it. Exactly. Okay. And there's enough area just. I think you guys mapped out for the drainage piece.

[59:25] That was the primary concern of why? S8:

[59:27] I can't even see what that.

[59:28] Says in this packet.

[59:32] Yeah, there's a walkway.

[59:33] Just out of curiosity. Your plan is to pave at some point. Nice. Yeah.

[59:39] They got they get dragged into your. Yeah.

[59:41] No, I get it. Yeah.

[59:43] And put.

[59:44] Signage. Yeah. Which I think is another way. It's a win for. It's a win for the community. It looks better than what it is now. Yeah. Perfect.

[59:51] Okay.

[59:53] So is there do we have the wording on this easement?

[59:57] We don't. It's just it's the general terms of it is what you're agreeing to.

[1:00:01] Just the concept.

[1:00:02] Yeah. I take it back. I'm thinking you're I take it back. I thought you were talking about, uh, the land. The land. You're giving me authorization to move forward with.

[1:00:10] The pedestrian easement?

[1:00:11] Yes.

[1:00:12] Yes.

[1:00:12] So I don't have that narrative right now, but I'll work with legal counsel and make sure it all gets checked out.

[1:00:18] Okay.

[1:00:19] Forgive me. I'm trying to plug laptops.

[1:00:21] But if you if you have anything specific you want me to note, I'll write it down to make sure it gets in there. But, um, our legal counsel is pretty good at this stuff.

[1:00:28] Actually, it doesn't matter. You have to kill yourself.

[1:00:29] I didn't know if how, you know now how it was going to go with the town property and is it going to run with it if he sells?

[1:00:37] Yeah, it would be it become his ownership.

[1:00:40] Okay.

[1:00:40] I guess we're talking two things here. Attacking the easement piece of.

[1:00:43] This.

[1:00:43] Easement. The easement piece of it, I would say yes, it probably would transfer. We'd make sure that it transfers in perpetuity. Yes, yes.

[1:00:52] Perfect.

[1:00:53] Okay. Resolution number 2027-06 for I'll make a motion that the council authorize the town manager to one convey to 2022 Main Street, LLC, the real property identified as area one A and area one C on the plan entitled Proposed Parking Plan Expansion Expansion by Pioneer Land Planning dated May 1st, 2026. Two Grant to 2022 Main Street, LLC. An access easement over area one B on said plan and three accept a pedestrian easement over the property known as 2022-2026 Main Street between Main Street and in La Riviera Avenue under such terms and conditions as the town manager deems to be in the best interest of the town.

[1:01:49] Do you have a second? Any further discussion? All in favor? S2:

[1:01:50] Opposed? Abstentions.

[1:01:52] Pull it up right now.

[1:01:53] If you could. Just for people here so they could see.

[1:01:56] Can I send the email over?

[1:01:59] Sorry, guys.

[1:02:00] Sign it. Oh.

[1:02:07] No. Wyatt does this all of a sudden. Now I have to, like, navigate.

[1:02:15] Inside of here.

[1:02:26] There it is.

[1:02:27] Okay.

[1:02:33] So this is the parcel. Then this would be the grassy area.

[1:02:40] Yeah.

[1:02:43] So the proposed pedestrian easement is that sidewalk right at the right hand side of the building. And then the back of the deposit? Yeah.

[1:02:53] What are we doing this up here? S9:

[1:02:57] You're good. Sorry.

[1:02:58] What's the oval thing all the way on the left hand side.

[1:03:01] That's his.

[1:03:02] Potential. Drainage.

[1:03:02] Drainage?

[1:03:03] Yeah.

[1:03:04] Okay.

[1:03:04] That was just additional.

[1:03:07] Stormwater management. We're still not sure yet. We haven't done a full study. Okay. So in the event that we would need somewhere to drain that water, we're thinking that outside of the cage area.

[1:03:19] Okay, great.

[1:03:21] Awesome. Well thank you.

[1:03:23] Awesome.

[1:03:23] Took a while to get there, Justin, but we're there.

[1:03:26] All right.

[1:03:33] Okay, moving on to subcommittee reports.

[1:03:38] Anyone? S7:

[1:03:43] You are the head of that.

[1:03:45] I'm on it. I'm not the head of it.

[1:03:47] Well, it's just you, me and Ryan, and you have the experience.

[1:03:50] And I was gone. So, yes, I will be able to get something on. I will get in touch with Ashley, and we'll get something scheduled and posted, because we can't do anything without doing it.

[1:04:00] Yes.

[1:04:01] I was going to say I'm taking the lead on that project so we can connect and determine what time of day works best for everybody.

[1:04:08] Awesome.

[1:04:09] Great town manager's report.

[1:04:13] All right. So the Commerce Middle School RFP is available. Responses are due back by October 1st at 3 p.m.. Um 1307 Park Street is in the final phase two environmental testing that was complete the. The testing on site was completed last Friday. Takes about a five day business day turnaround for the results. Um, then Atlus, who's our environmental consultant, will review them and give us a report. So the goal is to honestly have this closed out before the end of the month. Um, we extended the agreement with the owner, uh, through October 2nd or third, I believe. Um, but we don't want to wait that long. As soon as we can acquire this building, if everything checks off, we're good to go. Question on that.

[1:04:51] I thought we did this a month ago.

[1:04:52] We revoted. We revoted a month ago to give us another month. So all this is an update.

[1:04:58] What was the hang up? I thought we were going to. It was all.

[1:05:00] Time frame on testing. We want to make sure we have all the environmental testing complete before we move forward with it, so there's no sign offs needed. You guys did everything you need to do to extend it. No change on that end. I'm just noting that, um, we may run up to the end of that deadline, but I'm hopeful that we're a week in advance of that at a minimum.

[1:05:18] Is it a 21EI?

[1:05:21] Not my not my total knowledge area, but I Alice, we've worked with them before on this type of stuff and it's anything that could contain hazardous. They're reviewing the whole process. So it could be 2020. But I don't want to tell you it's not.

[1:05:36] The only thing I have to add a comment to that is that, you know, the owner has been very good to us and had other I mean, he had another avenue, but we were technically we could have taken the property no matter what because of the way we did things right. And we were very generous to the owner. But yet, on the other hand, you know, we're now making them wait, you know, so it's it's kind of.

[1:05:57] Yeah.

[1:05:58] It's kind of a.

[1:05:58] Crappy situation. No matter who the purchaser would was.

[1:06:01] Exactly. You could hit a snag at the bank for a loan. There could be a million scenarios that happen. I totally understand that, um.

[1:06:07] Environmental test from somebody else.

[1:06:09] Well, that's exactly it. So there's a lot, a lot to this that they'd have to go through unless you were buying it for cash and could skip all of these testing.

[1:06:14] I understand what you mean.

[1:06:15] We are in one way, we're skipping that because we are paying cash.

[1:06:18] But the town still doesn't want to take the liability on of purchasing. Exactly. Yeah. We're going through it. And he's he's been good to work with. So, um, I'm hopeful everything gets done. Like I said before the end of that closeout date of October, but should be good. Awesome. Um. The following roads are scheduled to be paved from this a little bit late, but from September 8th through 18th, uh, Springfield Street from Maple Street to New Hampshire Ave. Calkins road from route 20 to the Turnpike overpass starting in the end of September. Early October. Baptist Hill Road. The full length will be paved and then scheduled before November is Water Street. Um. The DPW is continuing to work with our shared and Complete Streets consultant to move forward for the sidewalk and street crossing upgrades in multiple districts. I know I've talked about this now. I think we're going on close to two years. This has been talked about. Um, the primary snack we've hit on this is I am reluctant to move forward with the bidding on this until we are cleared for the area in front of big Y and Ocean State and McDonald's. That is such a vital part of our shared and complete streets, in my opinion, that this isn't worth bidding without those components to it. So we're still trying to get notice of intent signed off by all of them. Once we have that, we're already working behind the scenes to get all the bid package ready to go with the assumption we're going to have sign offs. So that'll go out. Uh, they may do some work if depending on who bids it this winter, but the reality is it's probably not until spring when they're doing anything. So.

[1:07:44] So where's the money coming from currently for the sidewalk projects that I see going on in town?

[1:07:49] Uh, general chapter 90 money, I can imagine. Okay. Yep. They're not tied to remember. There's like 12 specific parcels on this. Yeah. We had to value engineer a few of them out already. Um, but the goal is I just don't want to go out to bid until we have the, the Ocean State McDonald's and big Y locked in. I just think that is such a vital part of connectivity.

[1:08:08] We haven't stopped because I see sidewalk projects going on.

[1:08:10] No, we're still continuing on different different pot of money.

[1:08:12] Okay.

[1:08:13] That's why we're still we're still moving forward with sidewalk projects.

[1:08:15] I just don't want people to think that we're stopping on projects because.

[1:08:17] Good question. Is that the grant that Matt Morris had.

[1:08:22] Got, we started it. Exactly, yeah. So it's almost.

[1:08:25] When that was going to.

[1:08:26] Happen. Exactly. And I gave an update in the spring, I thought we were going to move forward. But again, I just I do not want to move forward without the big Y piece because that is such a vital. You talk about complete streets. You're not you don't have complete streets in town until you have that connectivity, in my opinion. And that's the last piece we need to move forward.

[1:08:42] That helps us too, because in our diff area.

[1:08:44] Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. And again, we don't need to spend money on that.

[1:08:47] No we don't.

[1:08:48] But at the same time it's infrastructure.

[1:08:50] Area that's going to get fixed at the same time.

[1:08:52] Especially if there's if there's ever development on the hill. This again gives you walkability, access to again, I don't know. I get people have to get to big Y, but um, crossing right now in that area and walking on the street is it's a little scary. So I think we're going to a safe sidewalk.

[1:09:09] Walked in there.

[1:09:10] Yeah, it's already built into the sand. But, um.

[1:09:13] Anyway, how many years they've been walking that grass.

[1:09:16] Mhm.

[1:09:17] Uh, but more to come. I'll keep you guys in the loop once that's finalized. But again, behind the scenes, we're getting the bid specs ready to go, so we don't stall this any longer than what needs to happen. Uh, construction around Front Street and Park Ave, which is in the park area, started today. It's estimated to take about two months with the final top coat of asphalt and punchless items to be complete by April or May. So they'll shut down for winter. Again, this is community development funds. Uh, splash pad will be closing on Friday the 17th. Uh, great year from all accounts. I don't think we had one day that it was shut down. Uh, so we'll take a win when we can get one. Um, and we look forward to another, uh, spring and summer to be here sooner rather than later.

[1:09:56] To clarify, it's the 18th.

[1:09:58] Sorry. The 18th.

[1:09:59] Yeah.

[1:10:01] Um, and the public health nurse with Mill Towns regional, uh, vaccine clinic will be running on October 7th at 10 a.m. through 4 p.m.. Or is it.

[1:10:14] Yeah. From 10 to 4.

[1:10:15] 10 to 4. Um, and then additionally, on October 22nd, from 1 to 4 at the library.

[1:10:21] It's posted on our website too, if anyone wants to check the other locations and reminders for the times.

[1:10:29] And that was all I had.

[1:10:31] Anybody have any questions for Brad?

[1:10:35] Miscellaneous correspondence.

[1:10:40] Mail?

[1:10:40] No. Yeah.

[1:10:42] Uh. Counselors. Roundtable.

[1:10:44] I kind of have a dumb question, so please bear with me. I'm new at this.

[1:10:53] How do you, like, make a town law? Who does that? S1:

[1:10:54] Yeah, an ordinance, I guess.

[1:10:59] Is it by department that does it? S1:

[1:11:02] Like the police I'm looking for like a traffic law because there's been a lot of problems with e-bikes lately. Mhm. Um, they're going to cause an accident or someone's going to die. And I think that maybe we should have something done about that before that happens.

[1:11:17] So the e-bikes is a specific problem that's happening all over right now. And there is state guidance. So I think that's more of a public service announcement education piece that we can accomplish together.

[1:11:28] Bottom line, bicycles are supposed to follow the same rules and regulations as cars. So and they're not. Sometimes what you all obviously need to do is enforce laws that are already there, not create something new.

[1:11:40] And that's great. I mean, maybe I don't know who is in.

[1:11:43] Charge of the first Avenue would be to talk to the chief about the issue and then see what he recommends.

[1:11:49] Yeah. Because, I mean, there's like no helmets, no lights, reflectors, high vis. They're going in and out of traffic. They're looking down at their phones. They, you know, like cars.

[1:11:57] Yeah.

[1:11:59] Everyone looking at their kids.

[1:12:00] Right. Well.

[1:12:02] They don't want to wear a helmet that's on them.

[1:12:03] Well, definitely, I think it's worth having a conversation with the chief because he can, uh, you know, maybe there's some mechanism that they already have in in place on enforcement with that type of behavior. Um, and then go from there.

[1:12:21] But if it you know, if it warrants an ordinance, then, uh, you know, there's proposal of language and then it kind of goes through the first read, second read public hearing in order to become, um, you know, refer to the subcommittee ordinance subcommittee, um, similar to, uh, similar to what we're doing with like the stormwater ordinance right now. It's just different, different language, different issue.

[1:12:50] So that's more of a public safety thing. And I'm pretty sure the chief has already got on the radar. Most communities already have it on the radar.

[1:12:56] I totally get what she's saying, because I see him go by the junction and stuff and it's crazy. You know, they're kids.

[1:13:04] But they're going like this.

[1:13:04] The only difference between them and when we were kids is we actually pedaled the bike, right?

[1:13:09] Well, yeah.

[1:13:10] And did all the stupid stuff that they're doing now. You know.

[1:13:13] Looking down at our.

[1:13:14] Phones, you can't fix stupid.

[1:13:16] Well, 40.

[1:13:17] Miles an hour.

[1:13:18] You can't.

[1:13:21] Anybody else?

[1:13:22] Anybody else? Yes, I do.

[1:13:23] Great.

[1:13:24] I'm very proud of this. In the spring, late winter, I joined at Westover. Civil air patrol flight. And I'm gonna. Vietnam server. It's cool. And I teach cadets there. And the plane that went down in Ludlow. No one could find it. No one at all. And my immediate boss, not the commander there, has the apparatus to find the beacon. So he went down there. It was further down the road. And then he located where it is there. In there. And they found him. So. Good thing. Well, not good thing. But if they were alive, they would have been waiting there a while.

[1:14:03] Yeah.

[1:14:04] But. So hopefully we'll get more, uh, recognized for doing that search and recovery and boats, planes, people. It's wicked cool. And if any young people want to join, I'll help them. 12 to 18 you can be a cadet and you'll be head.

[1:14:22] Heads over anyone going into the military at that time? S23:

[1:14:23] Yeah, it is cool. Yeah. Thanks for that. Yeah.

[1:14:27] Anybody else?

[1:14:28] Um, I'll just say that I attended the nine over 11 ceremony on Friday, and I always appreciate that the am, um, American League, American Legion, uh, puts that event on every single year. Uh, and the state senator and state representative were both there. And they were also extended their appreciation that Palmer is one of the few communities that continues to do it every single year. I know that this was a big year because it was the 25th anniversary, but, uh, Palmer continues to remember the anniversary every single year. And I think that Our Town does a really great job at, um, remembering, you know, big events and, um, you know, time in history. Um, so props to the American Legion for continuing to put that on.

[1:15:19] Very good.

[1:15:19] Great. So now we will adjourn from formal session and take a roll call vote to enter into executive session, not to return to open session. Under Mass General Law. Chapter 38, section 21. Number three, to discuss strategy with respect to collective bargaining. If an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the bargaining or litigating position of the public body in the chair, so declares DPW administrative unit UPS local. 424MI so declare I'll make a motion.

[1:16:00] Do we have a second? Second motion? A second roll call vote? S8:

[1:16:01] And Carl. Phil.

[1:16:03] Yes.

[1:16:04] I vote yes. Thank you.

[1:16:08] Have a good night.

09-14-26 Palmer Town Council

Transcript