[0:12] Recording in progress.

[0:41] Welcome, everybody, to the city council meeting. It's another beautiful hot evening in Pueblo, Colorado. I now call to order the regular city council meeting. Today is Monday, August 24th, 2026. First up, we'll have our invocation. I understand Pastor Micah Eragon is not here. He is here.

[1:05] So please join us in the invocation with Pastor Micah Eragon of

[1:09] the Pueblo Christian Center and then immediately following we'll do the pleasure of allegiance.

[1:16] Yes, that's great.

[1:18] Hello Father, we love you and we call upon the name of Jesus today and we ask for your

[1:24] help Lord, we thank you for this great city that we live in, Father, from the leadership

[1:30] to the first responders Lord, we thank you and today we ask for help.

[1:34] Lord, would you even be in the meetings today with the various topics and we thank you

[1:38] for the freedoms that we have to even be able to come into a room and share ideas and

[1:43] share thoughts and concerns father and we just ask you to be in this place as we galvan

[1:49] we meet together again help us today and tomorrow and forevermore we love you in the mighty

[1:56] name of Jesus and everyone said amen.

[2:03] Thank

[2:18] you, Pastor Argonne.

[2:21] Mr. Clerk, roll call.

[2:22] Martaela here, Brett Boss here, Roger Gomez, Joe Latino, Ted Hernandez, Diane Dante,

[2:31] Salina Ruiz Gomez.

[2:34] Everybody's here and accounted for, fantastic.

[2:36] He's special recognitions.

[2:38] First up is a mayoral proclamation presentation for Andrew Hayes Day, August 24th,

[2:45] 2026 Andrew Hayes, Director of Public Works, come on down.

[3:01] Another district joining us tonight.

[3:06] I'm Jim Ecker, I'm the district manager for Colorado City.

[3:16] Okay, Andrew Hayes Day, Monday, August 24th, 2026.

[3:21] Whereas Andrew Hayes Public Works Director for the City of Public has been officially recognized

[3:27] by the Colorado City Metropolitan District with a letter of accommodation

[3:30] from the Board of Directors, and whereas in June of 2026, Mr. Hayes assisted Colorado City with the Applewood Fire and Aspen Acres Fire by providing critical assistance to the Colorado City water supply.

[3:45] And whereas, if Mr. Hayes hadn't reached out with concern to offer his knowledge and resources, further fire damage and longer evacuations may have occurred.

[3:54] And whereas Mr. Hays is dedication and care for the community shown by his daily actions of going over and above expectations.

[4:03] It's sincerely appreciated by those affected by the fires and by those who are responding to the emergency.

[4:10] Now therefore, I, Heather Graham, the mayor of the city of Pueblo, Colorado, by the authority invested in me.

[4:15] Do hereby proclaim August 24th, 2026 as Andrew Haysday in the city of Pueblo.

[4:22] to acknowledge and commend your personal contributions to Colorado City in

[4:27] the time of great need.

[4:32] We're going to hear a little bit more about the back

[4:35] story.

[4:38] We had a fire at our Applewood and our trailer park on Father's Day. He

[4:45] came down with equipment and also other assistance that helped with the fire

[4:51] and get us stopped. You know, this is Father's Day and he's down helping us out. We also, we had

[4:58] with Aspen Acre fire.

[5:00] It happened. And I happened to be on vacation on the other side of the world on a cruise and I had cream came in and helped. And he wanted to be here tonight, but he was stuck on an airplane himself. But yeah, between him and cream and me on the phone, we were able to get. He was able to get generators down to our plant because it was shut down. We didn't have electricity.

[5:27] If he didn't do that, we would have ended up having to be evacuated probably 10 to 12

[5:35] more days.

[5:36] Because then we would have had a boil order and all other things that would have happened.

[5:41] So without his assistance in all those little things that happened, we're in debt to him.

[5:49] He was very helpful in all their situations and we want to make sure that he gets recognized

[5:55] for it.

[5:55] I do have a letter that's framed here from all of our board of directors that signed it and all that same thing that she had on that plaque, so thank you very much.

[6:24] It's very important that this recognition is amazing thank you for just even saying thank you, but this is what a career in public service looks like.

[6:35] This is what 30 years, almost, of helping communities build themselves up, protect themselves, defend from fires, whatever it is, this is what it looks like, and this is what we're supposed to do.

[6:48] This didn't happen because of me.

[6:51] There were a lot of people that helped, and credit needs to go to those folks as well, but that includes our public work staff, our storm water staff, our wastewater staff,

[7:00] Board of Waterworks, contractors that helped in the local area, contractors in Denver that helped and jumped without question and provided those generators and got them on the road and got them down to help.

[7:13] But the night of July 2nd, going to July 3rd, the fire was expanding and the footprint grew significantly over that night.

[7:22] folks may remember there were heavy, heavy winds going on, and so the fire was spreading very quickly.

[7:28] But going into the holiday weekend of July 4th, there wasn't going to be a whole lot of spare capacity sitting around helping, I guess.

[7:35] So we wanted to make sure that you were taken care of, and folks jumped up to make sure that you were taken care of.

[7:41] So this was by no means Andrew Hayes alone.

[7:43] There were a lot of people helping to make sure that happened.

[7:45] So thank you for the recognition, thank you for the recognition, and thank you to the community for your trust.

[7:51] again this is what we're supposed to do so thank you

[8:05] all right we have another

[8:07] mayoral proclamation presentation for Kim Bowman Day August 31st 2026 Kim

[8:14] Bowman Executive Director of Posada Inc.

[8:19] Yeah bring the whole team down the

[8:22] whole team okay

[8:44] talk about public servant Kim Bowman Day Monday August 31st

[8:50] 2026, whereas Kim joined Pasada in 1991 as the Director of Development, a role in which

[8:57] she spent nearly three decades building the financial and programmatic infrastructure that

[9:02] would define the organization's growth. In 1997 she took on a mission that would become her

[9:07] signature contribution to Southern Colorado, leading Pasada's designation in ongoing work as

[9:13] public soul community housing development organization, positioning Pasada as a force for affordable

[9:19] housing expansion in the region.

[9:22] It is a distinction that requires technical expertise in housing, finance, and

[9:27] federal compliance, plus deep community trust.

[9:30] And whereas, in 2018, can assume the role of executive director.

[9:35] Bringing with her a foundation of institutional knowledge, community relationships,

[9:39] and operational credibility.

[9:42] Under her leadership and across broader tenure at Pasada, she has overseen the

[9:46] development and renovation of 197 single and multifamily housing units assembled in low-income

[9:52] housing tax credit funding packages and excess of $27 million and established Alfa West, a holy

[10:00] Own subsidy dedicated to expanding affordable housing development. And whereas, what sets Kim apart is not simply what she has built. It is how she has built it known among colleagues, funders and community partners as resilient, high energy, and charismatic. Kim combines strategic vision with a get it done approach that inspires confidence. With more than 35 years of leadership at Pasada,

[10:23] in Pablo her ability to hold the big picture while attending to the operational details that matter most has been the engine behind Pasada's longevity and impact.

[10:33] And whereas Kim's leadership extends well beyond Pasada's walls, she has served as the board chair of the Rosemont Museum, a board member of education at the Shrine of St. Tres Catholic School, a member of the Pablo Homeless Coalition, a grant reviewer for the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and a judge for historic preservation Colorado Springs.

[10:52] A proud graduate of Colorado State University public with a degree in mass communication with an emphasis in journalism.

[10:59] Kim brings the storytellers in instinct to everything she does, never losing sight of the human story at the center of her work.

[11:07] As she concludes her tenure at Pasada, her legacy has not measured only in housing units, bill or dollars raised, but in the lives stabilized, the staff she mentored, and the community she helped shaped over more than three decades, a purposeful, principal leadership.

[11:21] Now, therefore, I Heather Graham, the mayor of the city of Pueblo, by the authority invested in me,

[11:26] due per claim Monday the 31st, 2026 is Kim Bowman Day, and urged the citizens of Pueblo to join me in expressing appreciation for Kim's efforts to create safe, supportive spaces for everybody in the Pueblo community.

[11:43] And Melissa also has a award that she would like to give you.

[11:48] Yeah, so to add on that, I just, I don't have a, you know, a proclamation and all of this information, but I just, I think it's so important for the community to know how hard development is, how hard housing development is, you hit roadblocks at every corner and you have to continue and you have to persevere.

[12:05] And so I, you know, 197 units is absolutely commendable of those.

[12:09] was the city of Pueblo was able to partner with Kim

[12:11] on over 130 of them.

[12:13] Yes.

[12:15] And so over the years, Kim has been our number one developer.

[12:20] Over and over, steadfast, continued to come back.

[12:23] So with that on behalf of the Department of Housing

[12:25] and Citizen Services and the city of Pueblo,

[12:27] we also wanted to present you with this.

[12:29] We appreciate you.

[12:35] Thank you, Mayor.

[12:37] Thank you, Melissa.

[12:38] And I just wanna say that none of this is possible

[12:41] without the tremendous support of an incredible staff.

[12:45] Hi, Veronica in the back.

[12:46] One of my staff members, he's not down here joining us.

[12:49] And I'm grateful for the ability to do this work in the community.

[12:53] And I'm just so proud of everything that the sod has accomplished.

[12:57] So thank you.

[13:43] And our final proclamation is for mental health and

[13:48] In Suicide Prevention Awareness Day, September 5, 2026, I'd like to call down Tanya Johnson,

[13:56] Chair and Co-Founder of the Mental Wellness Task Force of Southern Colorado, and Genevieve

[14:02] Gonzales, Co-Chair of the Mental Wellness Task Force of Southern Colorado, and Nancy

[14:08] Gonzales, Chair of the Suicide Prevention Coalition of Pueblo County.

[14:13] Come on now.

[14:36] Nancy, are you out there?

[14:54] This is a proclamation for mental health and

[14:56] suicide prevention awareness day. September 5th, 2020.

[15:00] 2020-26. Whereas, suicide is a national public health crisis that claims the lives of more than 49,000 people in the US each year, leaving families and communities devastated, and grieving, and whereas mental health conditions affect one-in-five adults, and one-in-six youth each year. Yet stigma and barriers to care often prevent individuals from seeking the help they need.

[15:28] And whereas the effects of suicide are long lasting and deeply felt, particularly by

[15:34] those who have loved ones, parents, siblings, friends, partners, and co-workers who continue

[15:39] to carry the memories of those they have lost.

[15:43] And whereas mental health and suicide prevention awareness day serves as a meaningful opportunity

[15:49] to honor the lives lost to suicide, support survivors of suicide loss, and raise awareness

[15:56] us about mental health and bring communities together in hope and healing.

[16:02] And whereas community-driven efforts such as education, advocacy, access to quality

[16:08] mental health care, and open conversations are vital to reducing stigma, increasing prevention

[16:15] and ultimately saving lives.

[16:17] And whereas we recognize that mental health is essential to overall health and suicide prevention

[16:24] is a shared responsibility.

[16:27] Now, therefore, we, the City Council of the City of Pueblo, Colorado, by the authority vested in us, do hereby proclaim September 5th,

[16:37] 2026 as mental health and suicide prevention awareness state in the City of Pueblo.

[16:44] And encourage all citizens to join in honoring the memories of those lost supporting survivors and

[16:52] and to make a commitment to mental health advocacy, education, and compassionate community

[16:58] care. In witness whereof, I have here on two, sent my hand and caused the seal of the

[17:03] City of Pueblo, Colorado to be affixed this 24th day of August 2026, sign Mark Elif, President

[17:11] of the City Council. I'm very, very happy to give this to you.

[17:23] We are just hoping that everybody remember September 5th is our 4th annual suicide memory

[17:29] We would love to have you, it's night to noon.

[17:33] The perfect.

[17:34] Thank you, Jim.

[17:34] We'll get a picture.

[18:04] We now move to public forum.

[18:06] And first up is Bill Klenlow?

[18:10] Klen?

[18:10] Thank you.

[18:12] Come on down, Bill.

[18:19] Thank you for coming.

[18:25] And just hit that button there on the microphone.

[18:27] You're good.

[18:28] You're on.

[18:28] Hi,

[18:32] I'm Bill.

[18:36] Hi.

[18:39] There you go.

[18:41] Hello, I'm Bill Klenkey.

[18:42] and I just wanted to come and voice some concerns about this proposed train station that I guess is going to be built maybe on 2030-2032.

[18:55] I was reading in the public start journal where the cost of that is $38 million.

[19:02] I did some research.

[19:04] I am track has a pretty good site called Great American Train Stations and you can pull up information on every train station in the United States.

[19:16] And this proposed train between Pueblo, Denver and Fort Collins requires some more funding.

[19:28] I guess I got to put some sales tax on about for November.

[19:32] or from what I understand, each locality has to pay for the train station itself is what I've read.

[19:41] And so for the public county and city, I guess the county is supposed to fund it somehow.

[19:47] It's the cost that they've requested is $38 million.

[19:53] Miss research that I've done looking at Amtrak's site.

[20:00] St. Louis, the city of St. Louis, the town of 2.5 million spent, $36 million on a train station in 2008, and they had like $375,395 thousand riders. There's another train station on the north what that train station is on the southwest side of St. Louis. There's another train station on the northwest side across the river, and it had like $75,000 riders.

[20:29] and they spent $28 million building a train station there in 2017.

[20:36] So I don't know, it just doesn't seem like $38 million for our town, our size, county

[20:42] our size, seems to be pretty extreme.

[20:47] I was curious, and last night I looked to see what Fort Collins was doing on the opposite

[20:53] it's on the north side of this train line and in the castle meeting there and the railroad

[20:59] director said well we just want a simple platform and then we'll see how many writers show

[21:06] up and then we might go from there. So it seems like we're jumping in with both feet forward

[21:14] maybe into a potential fire. These trains have been running between St. Louis and Kansas City

[21:21] The similar type train runs twice a day between St.

[21:24] Louis and Kansas City, and there's six or seven train stops there,

[21:28] including the capital city, Jefferson City.

[21:31] They have about 40,000 riders annually.

[21:36] And the University of Missouri is 30 miles north of there.

[21:39] So there's about 250,000 people in that regional area.

[21:45] And looking at some of the other numbers of these towns,

[21:48] I would guess that maybe Pueblo, our ridership might be between $10,000 and $40,000.

[21:55] And almost all of these train stations across the state of Missouri are open air ones.

[22:00] Even the one in Jefferson City for the capital city has an open platform.

[22:08] And just the plastic shelter kind of like what you see with the bus stations and stuff.

[22:12] They don't even have one inside the building or anything.

[22:16] So, I don't know, my comments are as I just think, you know, we really need to re-evaluate

[22:22] this giving the shape that our city and county finances are in right now, and that's all

[22:29] I have.

[22:30] Thank you, sir.

[22:32] Ken Dante.

[22:34] Hello.

[22:40] Thank you for coming.

[22:56] I just wanted to talk about a milestone in Colorado that's reached.

[23:02] I

[23:04] get that.

[23:09] I've got a graph here to show. It's about renewable energy. There's this

[23:15] database in the United States called the EIA and you can look at this database EIA.org.

[23:25] I'm sorry I had this on my phone. I should have brought a piece of paper, but the graph

[23:30] is renewable energy in Colorado. And it's kind of late reported because they have to collect

[23:37] the data first. This is actual energy to power in Colorado. It's not made up, it's actual

[23:45] energy that has been used. And this shows over from 2004 up to present. And in Q1 of

[23:58] of the 2026 this year, 50% of our energy

[24:02] came from renewable energy resources

[24:04] that include mostly wind, growing the amount of solar

[24:10] and a little bit of hydroelectric power.

[24:12] Hydroelectric power is kind of constant.

[24:17] So we're powered by renewable energy

[24:21] and that's basically all I had to say.

[24:26] Thank you.

[24:37] Thank you, Mr. President, I'm out of mayor, everybody else.

[24:42] So, a bit different tonight than what I always speak on.

[24:45] So, thank you, Madam Mayor, shocking.

[24:49] Thank you for making it easier to vote for someone else next year for mayor.

[24:55] Speaking about the election next year, I have been talking to someone.

[25:00] One. That isn't here at all tonight. Maybe watching about running for mayor. And I will support

[25:08] he or she for a better pueblo for a better tomorrow. And just 435 short days, we will be voting

[25:19] for a new mayor in roughly about 512 days for the runoff, which will be another low voter

[25:28] turn out at an expense that none of us know yet.

[25:33] And in just 526 days, February 1, 2020-8, we will swear in a new mayor.

[25:43] And without talking about the items on the agenda later about the taxes, I'm going to talk

[25:49] about this.

[25:50] Pueblo is the poorest city of 25,000 population or more.

[25:57] A one penny increase isn't a one percent increase, although it is a one percentage point

[26:08] just wanting to specify misinformation that has been spreading out on Facebook.

[26:14] It represents a 13.16 relative increase in the tax itself.

[26:24] All you've got to do is know some good math.

[26:27] And then what I've been talking about since last month, I'll pivot to this now.

[26:32] It has been 43 days that Brian Hunt was murdered in broad daylight on his property,

[26:41] shot five times.

[26:45] No report from PD, no condolences from the mayor to the family.

[26:51] And I know the family, personally,

[26:56] they are grieving.

[26:57] His father's grieving, his siblings, and his only daughter, no answers.

[27:05] That's a shame, at least put something out, even if it's private to the family

[27:08] that whoever that they want to give it to, they could give it to, no answers whatsoever.

[27:15] Brian Hunt wasn't just a father, he had degrees, look it up.

[27:19] But he was also a veteran that fought for our rights.

[27:24] That is a shame that a veteran was murdered in broad daylight.

[27:30] It was no self-defense, he didn't have a weapon on him.

[27:34] So I am demanding PD to give a report, even if it's a brief report, to the family in the next 14 days.

[27:43] Just give the family some answers on the case and arrest and charge the individual that killed Brian Hunt in cold blood, broad daylight, 43 days ago.

[28:00] Now, I would want you to put your feet in their shoes if it was your dad, your brother, your sister, your mother, your wife, your child, even if it wasn't in public, if they lived in Texas or California, wherever.

[28:14] If you guys weren't getting any answers, you guys would be irate at the PD or if it was out in the county and those other cities and states with the sheriff's department without giving any answers whatsoever.

[28:26] And yes, I know they have to get evidence, but we just had another murder just two or three days ago.

[28:32] Well, there is at that person on charges the manslaughter, not that hard.

[28:38] PD knows who this individual is.

[28:40] They haven't given a word in edgewise to the family, why is that?

[28:47] And once again, Chief Nolis' should resign.

[28:51] Thank you.

[28:53] Gregory Pauline, Gregory, come on down.

[29:02] Hello.

[29:03] Thank you for coming.

[29:04] Thank

[29:10] you, first of all, appreciate your time, I know you guys are busy.

[29:16] So I'm a local business owner, born and raised here, lived here my entire life except for when I went off to the military.

[29:23] I do own a business here in town, and one of the things that I wanted to really address to you guys is this city is so business unfriendly and I don't understand why.

[29:40] We've got a budget that you guys are always screaming that you need more money for.

[29:45] Well, businesses will get you out of that, okay?

[29:48] We pay a lot of sales tax to you.

[29:50] We pay a lot of property taxes to you.

[29:54] Now, I'm going to give a perfect example here.

[29:57] Well, first of all, I'm going to start with, I just-

[30:00] I just expanded my business a few months ago, actually spent about two years. It took me eight months to get the permit, and six months to build the extension. So it took me two months longer just to get through the paperwork. Then it did actual construction. Now, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'm going to use Chipolty and Starbucks over there in Pebble Boulevard because they're close to my business, and I drive by them every day, going to my work. Okay.

[30:30] It is insane that two fairly large companies, I mean pretty big companies, take so long

[30:40] to get through the bureaucratic nonsense that we've got to go through here, okay?

[30:48] I'm going to give you guys some numbers here, and I'm going to be fairly quick about this

[30:52] because I know you guys are busy.

[30:56] Chipotle makes on average nationwide they make about $8,500 per day.

[31:01] That's what they bring in.

[31:03] Starbucks nationwide makes about $3,200 per day.

[31:06] And you guys can Google this, it'll tell you.

[31:09] Okay?

[31:10] You're looking at roughly, if you combine the two for the City of Pueblo

[31:15] in sales tax alone, you're looking at $158,000 a year in sales tax.

[31:21] Okay, that's a little bit of the narrow, okay?

[31:26] So, $158,000 just for the city, that's not the county.

[31:30] For the county of Pueblo and the city, you're looking at a little over $200,000 a year in sales tax.

[31:36] Not talking about property tax, because those go up too, so you guys get a chunk of that.

[31:43] So, my understanding, and like I said, I don't have a dog in this fight, so

[31:46] So maybe something's come to fruition that I don't know about.

[31:52] But my understanding Starbucks, it took them so long to get open because the state was holding their CO hostage because of a stoplight.

[32:02] Now, from my understanding is the city has been fairly accommodating, okay, trying to get their CO's form.

[32:09] However, when the city and county are going to make $200,000 a year and a stoplight is holding up a CEO,

[32:21] now I realize the state they're up there in Denver, they could care less about us down here.

[32:25] They really could.

[32:27] I don't know how much the stoplight was going to cost, but let's say at the top in it was a million bucks.

[32:33] Okay, let's just take a million dollars for that stoplight.

[32:35] I think that's absolutely insane, but let's take a million dollars for the stoplight.

[32:40] You guys will have just the city will recoup that money in six and a half years.

[32:46] If you include the county, you recoup that money in five years.

[32:51] So you guys pay for the light, get them their CEO, they give you their sales tax, and in five

[32:58] years you guys are making pure profit.

[33:03] That $200,000 a year, I think is going to go a little ways towards your budget.

[33:08] Okay, it's going to start filling some holes.

[33:10] And if we can make it easy for companies to come in here, they're going to start paying

[33:15] this sales tax to the city and it will start filling budgets.

[33:20] That's all I have to say, guys.

[33:32] All right, we'll move to Council Member and Mayor Commentary, Mayor Graham.

[33:42] Thank you, President A. Liff.

[33:44] Mr. Collins, you're going to be very excited tonight, because on City Council's agenda,

[33:49] we have item N2 on first presentation, which deals exactly with the Starbucks and the Chipotle

[33:57] in the usage of the half-cent sales tax fund being able to fund the infrastructure so

[34:05] those businesses can get open. So thank you for coming and voicing your concerns about

[34:11] that tonight and just know that the city is well on its way of being able to grant the

[34:16] access permit as long as City Council approves the use of the half-cent sales tax funds

[34:21] to pay for the infrastructure that's desperately needed.

[34:25] Next, Tammy, if you could please pull up my picture.

[34:30] So there's been a lot of discussion

[34:32] over the last several weeks on the flock cameras

[34:35] and the ALPRs that the City of Pueblo uses.

[34:39] So I asked our police and IT department

[34:43] to send me some actual pictures of what is being caught

[34:49] when somebody drives by one of the city's ALPRs,

[34:53] so the city of Pueblo currently has four different license plate readers.

[35:00] That we use. Flock, plate, ranger, genotech, and motorola. These pictures that are on display show you exactly what is being caught when a vehicle passes through one of our flock cameras. Or genotech any of our ALPR so you can see that it typically catches the back of the car. The license plate comes up so these license plates aren't redacted because these are all

[35:30] city vehicles that have gone through the ALPR, one of the ALPRs that are located within

[35:37] the city of Pueblo. And I thought that it was really important because we hear a lot

[35:42] of conversation, but I've yet to see anybody actually show a picture of what type of identifying

[35:50] factors are being put out as far as what some may say is tracking or racial profiling

[36:00] or what exactly that looks like.

[36:02] This white truck that's coming at us

[36:05] is actually a city vehicle that's turning in

[36:09] the wrong lane so you can kind of see the driver.

[36:12] If you get close to the picture,

[36:13] you cannot identify who the driver is.

[36:17] Last week, chief noler put a directive

[36:20] and a policy together that all went to city council

[36:24] and answered several questions that council women

[36:27] And Diane Dante had proposed through a citizen for him to come back with some factual information.

[36:36] So I thought I would go through each one of these cameras and kind of tell you what

[36:41] they do, what they're recording, what that looks like.

[36:44] So this top one is a sample of what Motorola looks like.

[36:50] Like this is not a capture of video, the only captures still shots.

[36:57] These license plates have been redacted, because these are not city vehicles.

[37:02] This is taking through a parking lot, if you go up, tamir down whichever way you want

[37:08] to go.

[37:08] This next one is going to be a plate ranger.

[37:12] Again, with plate ranger, we do not have continuous video.

[37:16] We only have the plate and it captures an estimated of three seconds of video footage before and after.

[37:25] Again, this is a city car so you can see that the license plate is not redacted.

[37:32] Next, this is a genotech.

[37:36] These are not, these are also still photos. It's not a continuous video.

[37:43] When the plate, when it's coming head on it, you like that it's because it's taking it, the car was maybe in the correct, not in the correct land or changing lanes, again, city vehicle.

[37:57] And then the last one is going to be with the flock cameras capture.

[38:02] So again, we cannot see who's driving this vehicle, I cannot see how many people are in this vehicle.

[38:08] I can just tell you that this truck drove by this flat camera at this time, and that this is the image that we see at the police department.

[38:20] So all of our captured reads in our system, they're safeguarded under the public police department policies and directives that Chief Miller has sent to City Council, as well as full compliance with the Federal Bureau of the Investigations Criminal Justice Information.

[38:37] The city has to have the clearance in order to view this information and the city of

[38:42] Pueblo undergoes an FBI audit every three years.

[38:46] All data within our systems is owned by the city of Pueblo and is only shared in accordance

[38:50] with public police department policies and directives in which has been sent to city council.

[38:56] All system access is logged and audited for our public police department policies and directives.

[39:01] All captured reads are retained within their respective system for 30 days.

[39:06] Audit-related data is retained for one year as required by CEGIS compliance standards.

[39:11] All captured reads across all systems are encrypted into end to end both at rest and at transit

[39:16] and adhere to applicable privacy protections.

[39:19] And so tonight I just wanted to put this out to the public and show you what we're seeing

[39:24] when cameras drive through an ALPR because I think that there could be some misconception

[39:34] about what we can see in your vehicle, who we can see who's driving, what's being done

[39:39] in the vehicle. These were taken straight off of each one of our ALPR cameras that we use

[39:48] currently in the city of Pueblo. And that's all I have, President Elif.

[39:51] Thank you. Councilor Latino. Yes.

[40:00] I have

[40:03] some concerns about, I was in contact this afternoon with one of the merchants, well, with one of the

[40:15] significant individuals in this community that let me get my thoughts together here. Anyway, I was in contact this afternoon with one of the proprietors and managers of the housing and urban development, well, the senior living center here. And he told me that

[40:36] last evening that we had a number of gunshots right here in the parking garage and a number

[40:47] of gunshots. The police were called, and there was no response.

[40:55] That seems to happen

[40:57] a lot. I mean, we can put cameras everywhere we want in this city. I don't, I prefer not

[41:02] to have cameras in every place in this city. This is the United States of America, okay?

[41:12] So I'm not supportive of that, but I am supportive of having police on the streets.

[41:17] And I think probably what we need to get back to, and at one time I contacted the governor of the state of Colorado and said we need some help down here.

[41:25] Maybe we need to Colorado National Guard to come down here and help us.

[41:28] Sad, isn't it?

[41:30] Sad, isn't it?

[41:31] Isn't that sad?

[41:32] Yeah, I agree.

[41:34] I agree.

[41:35] You know, when we were growing up, we could come down the streets of Maine and Union after

[41:40] football, basketball, baseball, practice at the high school, local, high school, PCH,

[41:45] and our parents never worried.

[41:47] Walked right down Maine or Union, 5, 6, 7 o'clock at night, rock across the railroad tax, up

[41:52] to Goldhill and Smelter wherever we were, the east side, wherever.

[41:55] You know, again, we need to be creative.

[42:00] How about police on the streets?

[42:02] You know? How about police on the streets? You know? I think we need to, again, I think

[42:09] we really need to sit down and we need to be creative. Maybe we need to put a committee

[42:14] together of the, in the community and do some things that are creative that would put

[42:20] Pueblo back in a position where it is Pueblo Homo-Heroes. Again, this is the United States

[42:26] of America, and we're the only city in this country that's got four congressional metal

[42:29] of honor winners.

[42:30] I've said that a number of times.

[42:32] Not one city in America has four, since it has seven, since it has seven, but not one

[42:36] of them were raised in Pueblo.

[42:37] So we need to be the actual home of heroes.

[42:40] We need to take care of each other, okay?

[42:43] We need to take care of each other.

[42:45] So I'm saying we need to be creative and maybe we need to put a committee together to look

[42:49] at those kinds of things.

[42:51] And again, talking to one of the local merchants here, we had shots fired in the garage

[42:59] right next to the Senior Living Center, Senior Resource Center, okay?

[43:04] That's not good, it's not good.

[43:08] It's like me finding a homeless amputee right behind this building here, laying on the street with no shoes and no shirt out of his wheelchair.

[43:24] Those are the kinds of things that we need to avoid.

[43:27] And again, we are a community that we can work together if we really want to do that.

[43:33] But we need some guidance from the top and we need some support and help from the police

[43:38] department to do the kinds of things that they're expected to do.

[43:41] I realize they're short, however, response times are not the best.

[43:45] They are not the best.

[43:49] The guidance and direction is not the best from the top, from the very top.

[43:54] I've asked the chief to resign twice,

[43:58] you know.

[43:59] It's time to upload that we come back to where we were when we were growing up and realize

[44:04] that this is a great community it is a great community there's a lot of

[44:09] businesses that would come here except they read in the paper a number 10 in

[44:12] crime in the United States of America sitting county of approximately 200

[44:16] thousand people that's not the way it should be I

[44:21] guess that's all I got to say

[44:22] thank you councillor councillor Rees go man thank you mr. President I'd like

[44:31] to welcome Pueblo to this meeting thank you all for coming out I really

[44:34] appreciate everyone coming in to hear what's going on so if you can please just give yourselves a hand for being here this evening. Thank you so much. This is your meeting.

[44:44] Okay, just want to take a minute to say thank you to Mr. Andrew Hayes for your work and your proclamation as well as to the folks Kim Bowman and to the folks at suicide prevention.

[45:00] For all of the work that you all do for our community and all of those root cause things that

[45:05] like mental health and housing that are very important to what we are talking about today

[45:11] and building our communities with resources and the things that we need that connect

[45:17] us and bring us together, I want to just take a minute to address some of the things that

[45:24] I've been coming toward to my attention regarding the speed cameras and the flock cameras that have recently been discussed and I want to thank the folks who have been sending information and been, you know, inquiring about this and helping us to understand this issue as thoroughly as we can understand it.

[45:47] And I just want to say to you as our community, please be patient, we are, we are like

[45:53] barely scratching the surface of all of the things that we need to know about what we

[46:00] as a community are going to decide to do about how we move forward on this issue.

[46:04] So just please be patient, please keep us informed on your, of what your thoughts are.

[46:10] There is just I believe as early as Friday we received the information.

[46:17] Thank you, Mayor Graham, from the stuff that Chief Noller had responded on as well as the city policy on this.

[46:26] And so I would there is something on the agenda today that I'm going to ask council to hold off on the vote until we have our we will be hosting the work session on this particular battle grant.

[46:39] And other things that we would like for Chief Noller to help address in our community

[46:45] in a response to some of those things that got brought up.

[46:48] So just like that, I'm just asking you, we are trying to make the best decision in this

[46:53] with this issue and so help us with any information or feedback that you have.

[47:00] And my hope is that we can come to this where we are promoting our liberty,

[47:06] safety and building a better community for one another.

[47:10] That's all I have, Mr. President.

[47:12] Thank you, Councilor.

[47:14] Councilor Boston.

[47:16] Thank you, Mr. President.

[47:19] I just like to start off by saying I had the privilege to go out of town today and play at

[47:23] the Air Force Academy golf course in the tournament for a very good cause.

[47:27] And it reminded me just how thankful I am to live in the United States and how thankful I am for all our

[47:33] active and former military service members, so thank you to all of our service members.

[47:39] And on my way home, I also happen to see a state patrolman on the side of the road helping

[47:44] somebody change a flat tire.

[47:45] So that just goes to show, you know, our first responders and how much good work they do.

[47:49] So another thanks to all the first responders, so responding to the fire and so working hard

[47:52] every single day.

[47:54] And I think people forget sometimes up here, yes, we were elected by the people, but we

[48:00] are people too.

[48:00] But we were elected to serve you.

[48:02] And when I campaigned, I campaigned on three key issues.

[48:05] The first being public safety, the second being economic development, and the third being bringing more amenities to Pueblo.

[48:12] And I try to do my best every time I sit up here representing those who voted for me and those who didn't as well,

[48:17] trying to make sure that I do what's best for Pueblo standing behind those three key issues.

[48:21] So just remember when we make decisions whether that be allowing you to vote for something, whether you agree with it or not, that's us giving you the rights you elected us to do.

[48:31] So, I appreciate everybody always coming out here, voicing your concerns.

[48:35] In my day to day job, I hear from many different members of the community from all walks of

[48:40] life, and I try to gather as much information on hot topics or topics that some people

[48:44] may not think are important, and I always try to formulate decisions based on the information

[48:48] I gather from constituents, based on research, and based on the information, whether I get

[48:52] it from legal, department heads, or my own research.

[48:55] And I try to always make decisions that are best for pueblo.

[48:57] So I continue to do that and I will continue to do that and I hope you guys are, you know, gracious with us sometimes when we're up here trying to do what's best for you and the city of Pueblo.

[49:08] And that's all I have tonight.

[49:10] Thank you, Councillor Boston. Councillor Dante.

[49:15] Good evening. Nice to see you, Paul House.

[49:20] last week I went on a tour of their Rocky Mountain Steel Mill. And while I was there, a question

[49:27] was asked of the president about how much solar the steel mill uses. And they say that

[49:33] they're 100% renewable. So that was really great to hear.

[49:41] I really want the citizens to have a voice in these cameras.

[49:47] I want you to feel comfortable with these cameras.

[49:51] So I'm still doing research on everything that is associated with the

[49:57] floor cameras, so just be patient.

[50:00] That's the end of my report. Thank you, Councillor Gomez. Yeah, I'm concerned about one of the things

[50:09] we, I hooked up with the Selena Gomez in reference that a shopping cart issue, I want to discuss a

[50:14] couple things with that. I spent a lot of time meeting with different grocery stores and they're

[50:18] so scared they don't even want to be identified. Some of the things that are happening, some of the

[50:23] reservations they have is because corporate has given them the marching orders. If you look at some

[50:27] Some of these carts, the gray ones that are on top of their plastic and the bottom is metal.

[50:33] Those are about 350 apiece.

[50:35] The metal ones are about 500.

[50:37] So when we talk about 4,000 carts, I mean, that's a lot of money by the time you get finished it.

[50:43] But what amazed me is when I did talk to the folks, the supervisors of those stores,

[50:48] they are scared to death of allowing one of their people that might be new,

[50:53] even touch a cart that's walking out with New York State, the layman,

[50:57] young, it's packed to the gills, go ahead, you'll get fired on the spot.

[51:02] And that really, that really, really bothers me.

[51:05] Another thing is I'm going through this and I'm trying to pass on what I've learned,

[51:09] we have an ordinance out there apparently that you can't just take a cart like they used to do

[51:13] in the old days because they were all metal.

[51:15] And bring them down and you haven't scrapped.

[51:17] When you talk to the homeless about the carts, they like that because the carts

[51:21] there's a lot of ingenuity with people, even though they're poor and harmless,

[51:25] they utilize those carts and they would put a grill underneath it and they would cook.

[51:29] So when you hear all these different things with carts and how to be

[51:32] in utilized and how to be taken advantage of, but would gripes me

[51:37] about the corporations of these stores.

[51:40] They have no, actually have a little skin in the game.

[51:43] Even when they hire those guards, that's for dressing.

[51:46] They can't do anything either. They have to watch them walk out.

[51:49] I've talked to the guys in the meat department and said it makes them sick.

[51:54] When they're sitting there watching, all their stuff go out whether it's expensive produce

[51:58] or expensive, they can't do a damn thing about it.

[52:02] And who do you think absorbs the cost for all of that?

[52:05] We do.

[52:06] Every single body person in there.

[52:08] I wouldn't be surprised as I wouldn't be surprised if there's fear not a way to make

[52:14] a profit, calling it, you know, their insurance and saying, hey, we got to loss a product.

[52:18] Let's charge it to the consumer in some way that will get us to pay for it.

[52:22] So I'm angry, I don't want to see the vendors get hurt.

[52:25] I don't want to see supers or safe way or albums or whatever you want.

[52:29] I don't want to see them penalized.

[52:30] We want them in our community, but to put it all back on the community and

[52:35] trying to figure out a way when they have to stand up for the rights of the people

[52:40] here in reference to these cards and stop putting the onus of the penalties on us and

[52:46] not standing up and saying, wait a second.

[52:47] We're not stealing them, you're not stealing them, we're not taking them off.

[52:51] How do we have those companies take some responsibility and say, screw it, we'll have the customers pay for it in the end.

[52:59] That's what grabs me, and I found this all this out, spending about three hours with these guys.

[53:04] Not one of them want to put their name down because they're afraid of losing their job.

[53:07] That's the first thing.

[53:09] The second thing in reference to the, why this is going to make me famous here.

[53:14] the flock issue with these cameras.

[53:18] I've heard the complaints from folks that a lot of these guys are out there,

[53:22] or policemen, or people in high security areas are utilizing to track their girlfriends,

[53:27] to stalk whatever I heard those things are ready.

[53:30] But in the areas that I represent in the lower income areas,

[53:35] they're living through a lot of the potential for crime and the accumulation of a lot of crime.

[53:40] If you're driving through best from where it's one thing, and I don't want to play class warfare.

[53:44] If you're driving through, it's a little different.

[53:46] You got people living in those areas that are looking for police.

[53:50] They're looking for police and they're on the ground.

[53:52] And if you don't realize this for now, the recruiting for a policeman is not that easy.

[53:57] And it's not just a problem.

[53:59] It's Colorado Springs, it's Denver, so what do you do?

[54:03] How do you soothe somebody that comes to you and say, my house was robbed.

[54:08] My son was hit by a car driven by gang members that came after him.

[54:14] How do you do it?

[54:15] Do you offset some of that with technology when you don't have the manpower to deal with it?

[54:20] So we were full staff, we'd be talking a different story.

[54:23] So think about what this administration has to struggle with to try to make that up.

[54:27] I believe in technology, okay?

[54:30] I'm a law buying citizen, I don't care if you put a flat camera in my front seat.

[54:34] I expect the rest of that to be passed on to the constituency as well.

[54:38] We all have a responsibility to follow the law.

[54:41] But if we have somebody that's got a camera that gives them any kind of edge, I'm not against that.

[54:46] And I'm not going to be us looking for applause from anybody.

[54:50] I am telling you I was on the street for a long time and law enforcement about 20 years.

[54:54] And any assistance that we can give these offices out there, we should be doing.

[54:57] And I'm not saying I

[55:00] I would be the first one, if I found that it was an officer, and I was in law enforcement for a long time, and I found out that they were utilizing that camera, I would have them tired and feathered and fired immediately. So I'm not in favor of them utilizing or abusing that system. But right now, let's be honest, do you think we have enough people in law enforcement that are joining the ranks to stop crime? No, we don't. So what do I tell my constituency when they complain to me?

[55:28] The other thing I get offended by is when we talk about drones and drones are considered

[55:33] first responders.

[55:35] BS, the first responders are your firemen, your policemen.

[55:40] I'm talking about human beings.

[55:42] I'm talking about eye-and-the-sky drones, which I don't want to turn away, but if they're being abused,

[55:48] those are the people that are abused and should be set and thrown in jail.

[55:52] So I think somewhere we're going to align and we're going to have to come to a compromise

[55:56] somewhere until we get our full staffing and they can actually work with a staff that's

[56:02] willing to be I mean today in probably what's eight grand a year plus probably pennies

[56:07] somewhere 100 grand you're talking but we're not the only ones looking for cops it's

[56:12] all over the place so how do you offset some of that and you got everybody screaming for

[56:16] a more protection look at the low income areas and not just the low income areas the high income

[56:22] areas that are going to be marked. It's slowly going to some really nice areas now.

[56:26] It's expanding every day. So all I'm saying is that we have any advantages with technologies.

[56:32] Let's look at it. Let's look at it honestly. Look calmly. Let's see, will it make a difference?

[56:38] All I know is when you have a camera that just followed and got information from a drone and

[56:43] they're connected and it can be connected and they say, you know, there was just a crime over here.

[56:47] It was a red Subaru with a plate number and left that area and they got a connection

[56:52] between all these license plate readers and they contract that vehicle and stop them

[56:59] before it goes to the next victim's house.

[57:00] Excuse me, maybe it's me, but if it happens, we save one person with that, that's an improvement

[57:07] on what we're doing now.

[57:09] And I understand we have police officers rank and file guys that have to take orders.

[57:14] There you got Corporal Sergeant Lieutenant's captains, I got it.

[57:18] So we can't just take a brush, and I was in the long,

[57:22] forced, long time, it really hurts me to say this.

[57:24] To blame these guys around the street that are bustin' their ass,

[57:27] and I am telling you, I've worked with these guys,

[57:31] we have some of the best, and I'm not looking for any applause

[57:35] from them either.

[57:36] We have some really dedicated folks, they're professional as hell,

[57:40] they're workin' short-handed.

[57:41] Do we not want to give them any kind of edge at all

[57:43] We don't want to just say the hell with it, we're not going to worry about the cops coming five hours later or the next day or the claims I hear, meanwhile we have some things we can do and get some kind of edge in our favor and now we're going to say, well, we don't want big brother watching this.

[57:57] What is it? What does everybody want?

[58:02] Well, you've got to give it a round of applause.

[58:11] That's a great tag line, I got it, but I'm just telling you, when you're on the street

[58:17] and our obligation is safety first, okay, that's fire department, mayor's office, this

[58:25] is Dias, we are responsible for safety and if you're going to sit there and tell me that

[58:29] that we're meeting the grade, we're not.

[58:31] I'm telling you, we're not.

[58:32] Because it's not the council's fault.

[58:35] It's not the fact that we can't get more people in.

[58:38] They're trying to recruit as many as they can.

[58:40] We're in a box right now.

[58:42] So for what it's worth, I just want to express my side of it.

[58:45] I understand what Joe is saying.

[58:47] I understand what you guys are saying about the big brother aspect.

[58:49] I got it.

[58:50] But we need help.

[58:52] Thank you.

[58:53] Thank you, councilor Hernandez.

[58:56] Thank you, President Eilith, I want to start off maybe bring it down a little bit.

[59:04] I had the opportunity to visit, be part of the South High School ribbon cutting ceremony a couple weeks ago, and as most of you know, I've been very critical of district 60 with regards to both the condition and the academic rigor at South High School, so I had the opportunity to go to the ribbon cutting and I can tell you that they have a new team that they put together there to administrative team for

[59:26] the students. My eldest grandson is a freshman there so that school is very, very important

[59:33] to me. It's a very historic school on the south side and so I'm going to continue to challenge

[59:41] the 6.62 work on increasing the enrollment at the school because it's below 700 right

[59:47] now which is sad as far as I'm concerned. But I'm going to give them the credit for putting

[59:55] the money into the school and making it look a lot better now if we can get the educational

[59:59] Grigger.

[1:00:00] We're up, then, will be in a good place. Also want to point out a young man who was in an automobile accident, the night before graduation, came in Guida, H and your old young man, coached him four years at South High School in football, had eight surgeries, died three times, and fortunately for us, South Colt coaches and South Colt family, Colt Nation, he was at our

[1:00:29] game on Friday night. He actually walked. So he's still working really, really hard to

[1:00:41] get back at recovery and to be the old Cayman that we always knew, but he's working hard.

[1:00:47] And so we're super, we're super proud of Cayman. And we look forward to the day when we defend

[1:00:54] the canon and Cayman gets to come out with us and be our captain. So good luck, Cayman.

[1:01:00] I know we're got our eyes on you, and finally, I went to high school long time ago, it's hard to even imagine how long ago it was, but I had a class by the name of Bill Nimic, and Bill was, we're for the fire department for over 40 years, so I kind of want to recognize Bill, I have the privilege to recognize who's assistant police chief, and he retired after an extraordinary 40 year, 40 years of dedicated service.

[1:01:30] service to the citizen of the public throughout his career.

[1:01:34] Bill exemplified what it meant to be a public servant.

[1:01:36] He advanced to the ranks of the public fire department, earning the respect of peers through hard work, integrity, and exceptional leadership.

[1:01:43] For 18 years, he served as an assistant chief, including 12 years as a nationally credited chief fire officer, where he helped shape the operation, safety and future of our fire department.

[1:01:57] Bill's impact reaches far beyond the titles he held.

[1:02:01] He was an incident commander at some of public's most challenging emergencies, including the Sacred Heart Cathedral Fire, the Branch in Explosion and the Fountain River Wall Fire, that threatened the Belmont area during extremely windy conditions.

[1:02:15] During these and countless other emergencies, his calm leadership sound judgment and commitment to protecting both public and his firefighters were evident.

[1:02:25] His contributions extend well beyond the fire ground, Bill secured numerous grants that brought valuable resources to the Polo Fire Department.

[1:02:34] He played a key role in the design of fire stations, apparatus, how develop equipment and firefighting procedures that improved operational effectiveness and continually looked for ways to make the department stronger and safer.

[1:02:48] His expertise was recognized nationally as well.

[1:02:50] Bill authored several articles published in the National Distributed Fire Service Magazine,

[1:02:56] Fire Engineering, becoming the only member of the public fire department to achieve this distinction.

[1:03:02] He shared his knowledge not only with his colleagues in public, but with firefighters around the country.

[1:03:09] So to my friend Bill, he retired back in July 31st, I think the chief told me of last year.

[1:03:19] Thank you. Please remember that. That's all guys. Always remember you all guys. And we appreciate your 40 years of experience. Thank you, sir.

[1:03:37] Are you good? Thank you, Councillor.

[1:03:42] I rarely get a big crowd like this, so I get a rant for two minutes.

[1:03:46] So

[1:03:50] what hasn't been in front of you, and a lot of people don't know about, is the Black Hills energy debacle.

[1:03:59] The debacle of again asking for double digit, 18% rate on its rate payers.

[1:04:07] And I believe 14 to 18%, it's 14% doesn't matter, 14, 18, 6%, so they got 6 or 8% last time.

[1:04:19] And they didn't like it so they're suing the Public Utility Commission or whatever because they didn't think that was right that they should get more money.

[1:04:27] So for years I've been arguing and arguing and saying, you know, we got to do something about this. We've tried twice to create a municipal utility that just was shot down.

[1:04:38] I'm over that.

[1:04:39] We fought tooth and nail with the Public Utility Commission the last time to try and get

[1:04:46] it down to a reasonable raise and we thought we got that done.

[1:04:54] This time, we're still fighting, trying to, to, uh,

[1:05:00] Offset the high rates. But here's what I want to say. The only way anything is going to change with our utilities, especially with electric, is something has to be done at the state. It has to be done through the Public Utilities Commission. It has to be done through our state legislators. It has to be done through our state senators and the governor and so on and so forth. Literally, the only lifeline that the city of Pueblo

[1:05:27] So, possibly has this community choice energy.

[1:05:32] And if we don't get serious about community choice energy, allowing communities like

[1:05:38] Pueblo who are held hostage by these utilities, given us the opportunity to buy the utilities

[1:05:46] off of the wholesale market and still utilize our provider, our utility provider to deliver

[1:05:55] of the electricity. It has an opportunity to reduce our rates. Governor Paul, it never

[1:06:05] went through. It's been at the state. Governor Paul has said that he would veto it if it

[1:06:10] ever got through the house or the Senate and it never happened. So here's what I'm asking.

[1:06:18] Here's what I'm asking. Everybody that cares. Anybody that cares about how bad are you

[1:06:24] utility rates are on how high we are as compared to anybody else in the state of Colorado.

[1:06:30] Whoever's running for a state representative, whoever's running for state senator,

[1:06:36] who's ever running for a state position, this needs to come to the forefront if you're a

[1:06:41] Pueblo citizen.

[1:06:43] It needs to be on their radar.

[1:06:46] You listen to them talk when they have their town halls or their public meetings or whatever.

[1:06:53] our energy costs are never in the conversation ever but yet it's the only way

[1:07:01] that it's going to change and the only way that it'll change is if we hold

[1:07:06] them accountable to change it. So please as you're talking and you're asked to

[1:07:14] vote for specific people. Hey and this isn't a partisan deal. I haven't heard a

[1:07:18] Republican talk about it. I haven't heard a Democrat talk about it. I haven't

[1:07:22] heard an independent talk about it? Nobody. They're all guilty of leaving us in the

[1:07:27] lurch when it comes to our energy costs. And this is our last chance. Our last chance

[1:07:33] is community choice energy. And they need to at least get it on the floor, debate it,

[1:07:39] talk about it, and get it to the governor. You know the utility public utility commission

[1:07:43] actually did a study on it five or six years ago, and they just dropped it. Our state

[1:07:52] represented is just drafted. It never went any further than a study that says, well,

[1:07:57] it could help, Pueblo, but we'll see. And so that's my rant on utilities. It's very important.

[1:08:06] Join me on that. And I'll

[1:08:13] just close with this. Mass anytime a government wants to

[1:08:19] mass surveil, the citizens of its country, something's wrong.

[1:08:25] Something's wrong with that,

[1:08:29] and nothing good can come out of that.

[1:08:31] Nothing good can come out of it without unbelievable barriers to what they can do with that kind of stuff.

[1:08:40] It's a wreck waiting to happen, in my opinion.

[1:08:43] We'll move to the review of the agenda.

[1:08:45] Counselors, page one,

[1:08:51] page two.

[1:08:52] I like a poll.

[1:08:54] Ma'am.

[1:08:54] Yes.

[1:08:55] M is in Mary A. M is in Mary 9.

[1:08:59] So you'd like to poll M A and M 9.

[1:09:02] I'm bringing down to the regular agenda.

[1:09:05] Did you get that, Mr. Clerk?

[1:09:07] Move to the regular agenda.

[1:09:10] Page three.

[1:09:11] Sir.

[1:09:11] Go ahead.

[1:09:13] Page two.

[1:09:14] Thank you, Mr. President.

[1:09:15] I'd like to move M is in Mary 10 to the regular agenda.

[1:09:22] Mr. Clerk, do you get M10 to the regular agenda?

[1:09:27] Is that all on page two?

[1:09:30] Page three,

[1:09:34] page four,

[1:09:39] page four?

[1:09:41] Mr. President, I would like to postpone R1 to our regular meeting on September 14th, 2026.

[1:09:54] This is on the regular agenda.

[1:09:56] We should we take it to the...

[1:10:00] To the, to the, to the actual presentation and then you make the motion. That's fine. Thank you, Mr. President. Or do you see anybody? I think that's the best way to do that.

[1:10:18] Page 5.

[1:10:20] Mr. President, a list staff would like to continue R-A-R-9 and R-10 to October 26.

[1:10:28] R-8.

[1:10:30] 26.

[1:10:33] Till 10.

[1:10:34] 25.

[1:10:36] You got that, Mr. Clerk?

[1:10:42] October 25.

[1:10:45] And is there an approval of the agenda?

[1:10:47] Mr. President, I make a motion to amend the agenda, moving items M-8, M-9, and M-10 to the regular agenda.

[1:10:53] and postponing items R-8, R-9, and R-10 to October 25th and approve the agenda as amended.

[1:11:00] Thank you. Is there a second?

[1:11:01] Second. Councillor Gomes, any questions? It's called for the vote.

[1:11:10] It's not working. Why is that working?

[1:11:21] There it is.

[1:11:33] Did everybody vote?

[1:11:39] Passes 6 to 1.

[1:11:44] We now move to a reading and approval of the minutes. Is there a motion?

[1:11:48] motion.

[1:11:48] I'm motion.

[1:11:50] I've got to read it.

[1:11:56] Motion dispense with the reading and approve the minutes of the regular meaning date in

[1:12:00] August and 2026 as district reading.

[1:12:03] Thank you.

[1:12:03] Is there a second?

[1:12:04] Second.

[1:12:05] Councillor Hernandez.

[1:12:06] Any questions?

[1:12:07] It's called for the vote.

[1:12:09] I have a race to explain.

[1:12:10] Is that true?

[1:12:10] I'm trying to pass

[1:12:15] it.

[1:12:16] 7-0.

[1:12:17] Mr. Clerk, we now move to the consent agenda.

[1:12:20] There is nothing under communications.

[1:12:23] Let's move to section M resolutions item M1, item M1, resolution ratifying the award of an emergency construction contract in the amount of $295,504.20 to rust grading and excavating LLC, a Colorado limited liability company for project number 25-012 SW and 0-3 for emergency storm sewer point repair on 10th street and conglustry and approving a change order in the amount of 62,000

[1:12:53] and $485.12 for additional work and materials

[1:12:57] and authorizing and improving the purchasing

[1:12:58] agents' execution of SAID.

[1:13:01] Item M2, a resolution preliminary determining,

[1:13:10] is to turn the microphone up, Tammy.

[1:13:14] A resolution preliminary determining

[1:13:18] that the petition for the annexation

[1:13:20] of the 89.93 acres commonly known as the Pueblo Master Plan

[1:13:25] community's annexation number one is valid under the provisions of Colorado Revise Statute

[1:13:31] Section 31-12-104, parentheses 1A and 31-12-1071, tabling final action on the petition for a period

[1:13:41] of not more than 180 days and referring the petition to the Planning and Zoning Commission for

[1:13:46] review and recommendation. Item M3, a resolution confirming the appointment by the mayor of Genelle

[1:13:52] quick and Shannon Vargas to serve a three-year term expiring August 31, 2029, on the

[1:13:58] El Centro de Quinto Soul Recreation Center Board of Directors.

[1:14:02] M4 resolution confirming the appointment by the Mayor of Heather Black to complete a three-year

[1:14:07] term expiring December 31, 2027, on the Human Relations Commission.

[1:14:13] Item M5, a resolution authorizing the issue of a revokeable permit REV 26-24 to the YMCA

[1:14:20] of Pueblo for the use of the outer lanes of Spalding Avenue both directions between the North

[1:14:25] entrance of the YMCA and Pueblo Boulevard both directions between Spalding Avenue and

[1:14:31] its North Eastern terminus for the 5K run slash walk corporate cup event.

[1:14:36] Item M6, a resolution improving compensation with respect to a legal service agreement with

[1:14:41] Fairfield and Ward Woods PC.

[1:14:44] Item M7, a resolution accepting the letter of agreement regarding procedures outlined between

[1:14:49] the Pueblo Airport Traffic Control Tower, ARFF, and the City of Pueblo Department of Aviation.

[1:14:56] And ordinances, first presentation.

[1:15:00] N1, an ordinance approving and accepting a Colorado resource for emergency and trauma education

[1:15:07] grant establishing project number PS2609 for emergency and trauma education grant, and budgeting

[1:15:14] and appropriating grants in the amount of 22,500. N2, an ordinance approving a contribution

[1:15:21] agreement between the city of Pueblo, a Colorado municipal corporation, and the Martinez property

[1:15:25] holdings in New Mexico Corporation and authorizing the mayor to execute same item N3 an ordinance

[1:15:31] approving an agreement between the pueblo a Colorado municipal corporation and pueblo municipal rail

[1:15:37] corporation and authorizing the mayor to execute same N4 an ordinance assessing the cost of demolition

[1:15:44] and removal of dangerous buildings upon land located at 125 East 7th Street N5 an ordinance approving

[1:15:51] and enacting a collective bargaining agreement between the City of Pueblo and the International

[1:15:56] Association of Firefighters, local number three, commenced in January 1st, 2027, and authorizing

[1:16:02] the Mayor to execute same. N6, an ordinance approving a lease agreement between Pueblo, a

[1:16:07] Colorado Municipal Corporation, and Marine Toys for Tots Foundation, a Virginia non-stop

[1:16:12] corporation relating to a portion of the building at 317 North Main Street, waving and releasing

[1:16:18] in certain common area maintenance and operating expense charges and authorizing the mayor to execute

[1:16:23] same. N7, an ordinance approving a tea hanger lease agreement between the City of Pueblo,

[1:16:29] a Colorado Municipal Corporation, and Anwar Saeed Allen for Hanger Unit E at 31501 Bryan Circle Pueblo

[1:16:37] Colorado. N8, an ordinance approving a tea hanger lease agreement between the City of Pueblo at

[1:16:43] Colorado Municipal Corporation and Nathan C. Hawkins

[1:16:46] at 4 Hanger Unit C at 3151 Brian Circle,

[1:16:50] Pueblo, Colorado.

[1:16:52] N9, an ordinance-approving and accepting

[1:16:54] airport improvement program, AIP,

[1:16:56] non-competitive discretionary supplement grant agreement number,

[1:17:00] 3-08-0046-056-20206,

[1:17:06] from the United States of America,

[1:17:08] acting through the Federal Aviation Administration

[1:17:10] for funds and the amount of $75,881 to reimburse the city up to 95% of the total cost to acquire

[1:17:19] 15 vehicle movement area transponders, units for airport vehicles and authorizing the

[1:17:26] mayor to execute same.

[1:17:27] Establishing project number 8P, 2605, PUB, VMAT units, budgeting and appropriating $79,875,000

[1:17:38] to said project and transferring matching funds in the amount of $3,994 from project

[1:17:44] number C I A N 1 A grant matches airport and 10 an ordinance amending the fiscal year

[1:17:50] of 2026 staffing ordinance by abolishing one vacant full-time wastewater compliance officer

[1:17:56] position and adding one full-time permit compliance specialist and adding one full-time pre-treatment

[1:18:03] compliant technician position to the authorized staffing of the wastewater department and 11 and ordinance establishing project C.I.

[1:18:11] 2619 AR FF truck improvement accepting budgeting and appropriation appropriating funds from the Colorado Department of Public Health and

[1:18:20] Environment CDPHE PFAS take back program into C.I. 2619 budgeting and appropriating and transferring funds from the airport improvement trust fund to C.I.

[1:18:31] by 2619 and transferring funds from the project CIN-13, vehicle and equipment, and CIN-2606,

[1:18:41] fire apparatus equipment, two said, into said project for the purpose of removing them,

[1:18:46] replacing AFFF with a non-P-FAS foam.

[1:18:51] Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

[1:18:52] Is there an approval of the consent agenda?

[1:18:54] I move to approve all resolutions set forth in this consent agenda.

[1:18:58] We have passed the ordinances of the consent agenda, setting public hearings for September 14th, 2026, and order the ordinance to be published by Title.

[1:19:07] Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Councillor Latino, any questions? It's call for the vote.

[1:19:19] Passes 7-0. Mr. Clerk, we now move to the regular agenda. Item M8.

[1:19:26] Item M8 resolution concerning the assessment of costs for the demolition and abatement of dangerous structures upon the property located at

[1:19:34] the 125-E7 street within the city of Pueblo, and setting a date for council hearing thereon.

[1:19:41] Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

[1:19:42] We have a staff report.

[1:19:43] Mr. President, members of council, good evening.

[1:19:44] The resolution before you sets a hearing for a public hearing to consider assessment of costs.

[1:19:52] This is with the demolition of the property there at 125-E7 street.

[1:19:55] This is the property that's more commonly known as the Albany Building.

[1:19:58] Thank you.

[1:19:59] Thank you.

[1:20:00] This is simply a resolution that sets that hearing date. There is an accompanying ordinance that is on for first reading that actually passed in the consent agenda tonight that would actually assess those costs. So that ordinance will be heard for second reading. And there will be a public hearing at the next council meeting if this resolution passes. So that concludes my report. I'll take any questions you have. Thank you for that report. Councillor Dante, you pulled this. Yes, I did. So I was reading the background paper and under financial implications.

[1:20:29] It says that there's no financial impact on the city, but then when you go down to stakeholder process, there's $750,922 and 8 cents, so that didn't make sense.

[1:20:43] And then if you go down to alternative, it talks about the city will not recover the costs associated with the completed projects.

[1:20:52] So you're not going to recover these, so is it?

[1:20:57] There's, I'll clarify again, there are two items on the agenda tonight.

[1:21:01] One, is this resolution?

[1:21:03] The resolution does one item, one thing it just sets the hearing only.

[1:21:07] But the accompanying resolution, sorry, the accompanying ordinance is item number, and

[1:21:12] four, November four.

[1:21:13] And like that?

[1:21:14] Ordinance contains more of the information there and talks about the assessment of those costs.

[1:21:20] So that it is up to council to assess the cost.

[1:21:24] but we're bringing a report of demolition, so I need to back up.

[1:21:28] If this resolution passes, you will set a hearing day.

[1:21:32] At that hearing, presumably, I will be bringing forward the report of demolition so

[1:21:37] it'll have that cost breakdown for the $750,000 worth of expenses.

[1:21:41] And then it is up to counsel to vote whether or not to assess in full, in part, and how to do that.

[1:21:47] So we'll be bringing that ordinance forward again for second reading at the next meeting in conjunction with the public hearing it.

[1:21:53] which you'll hear the report and get a chance to ask questions.

[1:21:58] So will we be trying to recoup these costs from the actual owner?

[1:22:04] So that is my recommendation.

[1:22:07] So we are going to, I'm recommending that we,

[1:22:10] I am, will be recommending that we assess the costs against the property.

[1:22:14] The property is owned by an LLC and so the city's already obviously completed this demolition.

[1:22:20] This project's been done for some time.

[1:22:22] But I presume again that it's hearing resolution passes we will be bringing that report of demolition that breaks down those costs for you

[1:22:28] So until we know rather we're going to recoup it is good cost is $750,000 what you're saying. It has already cost cities of $50,000

[1:22:37] Okay, these are costs that were incurred back in 2024. Okay, that was my question. Thank you. Thank you

[1:22:44] I was remiss is there a motion to approve?

[1:22:46] move. Councillor Posthons, second by Councillor Gomez. Any other questions?

[1:22:53] It's called for the vote.

[1:23:04] Passes 7-0, Mr. Clerk, item M-9. Item M-9, a resolution establishing

[1:23:11] the Airport Policy Advisory Committee. Thank you, Mr. Clerk. We have a staff report.

[1:23:19] Thank you. Good evening, Mr. President. Earlier this year, airport staff, airport administration

[1:23:24] and city leadership, drafted three documents for the airport, rules and regs, minimum standards

[1:23:30] and rates and fees. Through that process, we determined that we needed to, well, as per

[1:23:36] guidance, we needed to, we wanted to include stakeholder engagement with the creation of

[1:23:42] those documents, so we pumped the brakes on that initially. You guys might remember seeing

[1:23:46] those a few times on Council agenda. We had two very productive meetings with users

[1:23:53] stakeholders, and through that interaction and engagement, it was determined we were going

[1:23:58] to form the airport policy advisory committee, specifically to construct and continue the

[1:24:05] draft of these three documents. So through that process, applications were received through

[1:24:10] the mayor's office, and also feedback and comments were received to get these documents into

[1:24:16] a draft position, so now we can finish them off with the advisory, the policy advisory committee

[1:24:22] To be able to present them to council and as you heard tonight the mayor has asked to postpone or table those

[1:24:27] continue those documents to that

[1:24:29] October meeting so between now and October once this committee is formed

[1:24:34] We will then present these to council for consideration in a finished form that concludes my report

[1:24:41] Is there a motion to approve?

[1:24:43] Councillor Gomez is there a second?

[1:24:46] Councillor Dante. Councillor Dante, you pulled this. You have a question?

[1:24:50] Yes, I did.

[1:24:52] Okay, my question is this. During reading this, it talks about the previous

[1:24:59] This can't work.

[1:25:00] Action saying established this the public memorial airport advisory committee was established and was repealed and it was reestablished and it kept going back and forth. So my question is, do we now have two advisory committees for the airport? Yes, technically one would be specifically directed to review these policies and procedures with an annual review. We're not quite sure we're going to get the feel of the committee.

[1:25:29] Once we get it settled, if it's a buy annual or if it's just annual, but anytime something comes up

[1:25:34] We can call these folks to the table to say hey this rule this rate or this minimum standard is just not quite working for us or it doesn't fit

[1:25:41] It's unintended consequences perhaps so we will have that ability then to revise and redraft and bring back for council consideration

[1:25:48] So that is the purpose of this advisory policy policy advisory committee

[1:25:52] This does not take the place or does not work against or actually in conjunction either with the

[1:25:57] The existing Pueblo Advisory Committee, which is marketing and promotion of the airfield.

[1:26:04] Okay.

[1:26:05] Two separate groups.

[1:26:06] Okay, and one more question.

[1:26:08] Yes, ma'am.

[1:26:09] With the three ordinances that we have down, is this new committee going to be working on that at all?

[1:26:17] The three documents that were on the agenda today and table till October 26th.

[1:26:22] Those are the sole purpose of this policy advisory committee.

[1:26:25] But again, we have them, we affirm them and any other policies or advisory opportunities that come up through policy and documentation, they would be a good resource to have for those as well.

[1:26:36] Okay, thank you.

[1:26:38] Any other questions? Councillor Gomez?

[1:26:41] Yeah, just for the record, Councilman Hernandez and myself, probably in the last couple of visits, we spent over seven, eight hours with the airport folks and they've been really gracious.

[1:26:52] I spent three hours today alone, and one of the things I'm walking away with,

[1:26:57] I hate to say this, but there are some really reasonable people on both sides on the

[1:27:02] tenets, so the hangers on the other side, from the mayor's, I would just, I think we

[1:27:08] solve a lot of this and we just find the attorneys on both sides, and make these guys sit

[1:27:13] out on the room and figure this thing out, because there's some logical people on both sides.

[1:27:17] And when you get attorneys involved, forget it.

[1:27:20] So I'm just saying for words, I think there's a, I think there's a compromise there.

[1:27:25] I know that there's a lot of motion right now, and you're going to be, you're still stuck in the middle of this,

[1:27:32] but I'm just saying for me what I saw, I was, I was glad to see on both sides some level heads,

[1:27:37] but I don't think they get a chance to talk because we have attorneys involved.

[1:27:40] That's just my opinion, so forgive me, thank you.

[1:27:44] Councillor Hernandez?

[1:27:45] I just a couple of questions, there's going to be five people on this committee.

[1:27:50] I believe so, yeah, the mayor is pointing for including myself.

[1:27:54] So who will be the fifth, okay, and then you'll have the other four.

[1:27:59] Who are the four people that you will see them on our ten tonight.

[1:28:04] So, okay, so can you tell me a little bit about Thomas Lovatic?

[1:28:09] Mr. Savlatnik is a flight pilot trainer on our airfield.

[1:28:13] He does say this is on the next ordinance resolution has also been told so if you want

[1:28:20] Oh, that would be appropriate time for the story. Yeah, okay. I just jumped ahead a bit

[1:28:25] I'm done. I'll get it on the next one any other questions

[1:28:29] It's call for the vote

[1:28:41] passes six to one

[1:28:44] we now

[1:28:46] Move to m10 mr. Clerk

[1:28:50] item m10 a resolution conferner

[1:28:52] an appointment by the mayor of Thomas Levaknik, Bill Evans, Vance Crocker, and Reese Hayes to serve terms on the Airport Policy Advisory Committee.

[1:29:00] Thank you, Mr. Clark. We have a staff report.

[1:29:02] Thank you, President Anilis. This resolution before you, before this resolution, establish the Airport Policy Advisory Committee that will be providing

[1:29:10] a committee consistent of five members for whom are appointed by the mayor's subject to council confirmation with the director of aviation serving as the fifth voting member by virtue of office section 2-5

[1:29:21] the try to requires that appointments by the mayors specify the term of the office of each individual

[1:29:26] in order to achieve the overlapping tenure. So two of the members will serve four-year terms

[1:29:33] and two of the members will serve to your terms. And happy to answer any questions.

[1:29:38] Thank you for that report. Is there a motion to approve?

[1:29:41] Motion to approve. Councillor Hernandez, is there a second?

[1:29:44] Second.

[1:29:45] Second, Councillor Dante. Councillor Ruiz-Gomes, you pulled this?

[1:29:49] Yes, thank you Mr. President, there's just been a lot of communication from constituents

[1:29:56] out of the airport.

[1:29:57] I'm sure to all the Councillors, we've-

[1:30:00] You know, heard out a lot of the issues there. And there was a specific, there were some specific conversations around these particular appointments. And so the reason I pulled this was for us to, number one, recognize that yes, the charter does say that these appointments are, you know, their mayor Graham has the authority to appoint. However, we do ratify that appointment. So I was just wanting to open up conversation.

[1:30:29] around, you know, thank you, Councillor Hernandez around some of these folks because I know

[1:30:36] that you all have done some diligence and wanted to give an opportunity to discuss these

[1:30:41] particular folks.

[1:30:42] Thank you.

[1:30:43] Councillor Gomez.

[1:30:45] I don't think it's justice being served if we don't separate and vote on each person individually.

[1:30:51] I don't like this form of person, I think there has to be voted on individually and I hope

[1:30:58] we can do that.

[1:31:02] Make that motion I believe. Make the motion. I'm going to get that motion that we

[1:31:05] separate and we vote on each candidate on their own merit.

[1:31:11] Second. Mr. Gifford.

[1:31:17] If council's intent

[1:31:19] is to vote on these separately we can always bring this back next week so we could have four separate

[1:31:23] resolutions. The clerk are you able to track four separate votes and number those as four different

[1:31:28] resolutions. They would have to be forced separate. That's my concern.

[1:31:36] It would be, it would be easier for us to bring it back that way, but it could be good.

[1:31:42] So for clarity and I think for purposes of voting on each person individually, we could

[1:31:48] bring these back two weeks from now on the regular agenda, appointing each separate person

[1:31:54] to the airport policy advisory commission.

[1:31:58] So your motion would be to bring back in two weeks as separate resolutions on each

[1:32:04] appointment.

[1:32:05] Quint.

[1:32:06] You good?

[1:32:06] Yep.

[1:32:07] Is there a second?

[1:32:08] Second.

[1:32:10] Councillor Ruiz Gomez.

[1:32:11] Any other questions?

[1:32:12] Councillor Annas?

[1:32:13] So this is going to surprise you a little bit.

[1:32:16] But when you do bring those back, can you please give us some information on each of the

[1:32:20] individuals?

[1:32:21] Yeah.

[1:32:21] I'd be happy to provide that.

[1:32:23] Okay.

[1:32:23] I'm the packet.

[1:32:24] Information.

[1:32:24] I didn't see it.

[1:32:25] They're in the packet.

[1:32:26] I didn't see it.

[1:32:28] I didn't see it at all.

[1:32:29] Talk to you a little.

[1:32:30] I didn't see it.

[1:32:31] It came last Thursday.

[1:32:32] I couldn't talk Friday.

[1:32:33] I said I could talk to you a little bit about why each of these individuals was appointed,

[1:32:37] if that would help answer some questions.

[1:32:41] Councillor Gomez, is that going to change the motion?

[1:32:45] I don't know.

[1:32:46] I don't know if he wants to hear why.

[1:32:47] We can wait.

[1:32:48] I can wait.

[1:32:49] Before they're changed.

[1:32:52] I'm making that.

[1:32:53] If it's, what's the easiest way but we're going to do it individually?

[1:32:57] I'll vote on it right now.

[1:32:59] I'm going to go ahead and ask the information, share what you have.

[1:33:02] Sure, so, President Aylith and members of Council, as you know, this has kind of been a long drawn out process with the fees,

[1:33:10] rolls and regulations and the standards.

[1:33:14] The last Thursday and Friday in July, I held two public meetings.

[1:33:18] There wasn't anybody on City Council who attended these meetings.

[1:33:21] And so you may not know about the information that was provided from the individuals that

[1:33:27] came.

[1:33:28] Each one of these individuals came and gave testimony, either as part of a larger group,

[1:33:34] part of commercial, part of GA, or contacted my office as a citizen.

[1:33:42] That is why I went through each of the applications.

[1:33:46] It was based off of the information that they had provided over the two periods and their

[1:33:53] intent to sit on this committee.

[1:33:56] This committee was actually recommended by the individuals who came to give testimony.

[1:34:02] So starting off, the first Thomas is a flight instructor who came and gave about 30 minutes

[1:34:10] of testimony about how the fees, the rules and regulations and the minimum standards could affect his ability as a flight instructor or any other flight instructor.

[1:34:23] We took down all of his comments that he gave to Mr. Gifford and I and those have been rewritten into the red lines of the rules and regulations.

[1:34:34] Bill Evans is a community member who I believe flew F-16s and 14s, I think he's here tonight.

[1:34:44] 14s and 18s, his interest is pilot based.

[1:34:49] Mr. Vance Crocker is a representative of the airport users, so a group of individuals that belongs to a user group.

[1:34:58] He also came and gave.

[1:35:00] We have a testimony on behalf of the user, so I thought that he would be a good individual to sit on this committee, because he represented multiple people at the airport. And then Reese Hayes is general counsel for Freeman Jess Center. So we also wanted to have somebody who was involved in community, or I'm sorry, commercial aviation also come and speak. He also gave several comments back to the law department on what he wanted.

[1:35:29] to see as far as rules, regulations, and standards.

[1:35:33] So each of these individuals had lots of testimony, lots of comments, and have been working

[1:35:38] with the city over the last several months on all three of these ordinances that were

[1:35:45] tabled tonight.

[1:35:48] I'm sorry.

[1:35:49] Councillor Hernandez?

[1:35:50] Thank you very much.

[1:35:51] I think it's important even though that sometimes we have all this information, I don't think the

[1:35:55] community has it all.

[1:35:56] And that's why sometimes I ask you to do something that we always have in our information.

[1:36:00] Because I think it's important not just that we know but that the public know as well.

[1:36:04] So thank you very much.

[1:36:05] I appreciate that.

[1:36:05] Of course.

[1:36:08] Councillor Gomes, just in reference to some of the folks that I know that one of them has a strong

[1:36:15] invested interest in a business there at the airport.

[1:36:19] So I'm not sure I have to weigh this out and that's why I want to do it individually.

[1:36:22] I don't know enough or feel comfortable unless we're voting on each one individually.

[1:36:29] I don't see why that's a big issue.

[1:36:31] I don't think it's a lot more work to do that.

[1:36:33] But I think there's a lot of things that should not be compiled in the one vote like this.

[1:36:38] I think it has to be divided individually, again, on their own merit.

[1:36:42] Okay, there's a motion with a second, any other questions, Councillor Latino?

[1:36:46] Yes, I guess I want to know why I wasn't involved in this.

[1:36:50] I'm on the board, nobody talked to me about this.

[1:36:54] Sure, Councilman Latino, this is a different board, so this is the new policy committee separate from the board that you set on.

[1:37:02] Again, it's just rules, regulations, minimum standards, and the fees associated.

[1:37:09] I would think though that I, sitting on the board, on the general board, that being the council representative that I would have at least

[1:37:18] It's been notified and had the ability to attend.

[1:37:22] Sure, so all City Council was notified of the two hearing dates.

[1:37:26] Like I said, and nobody from City Council showed up, so that left me to make the decisions

[1:37:33] as the appointing body of the government when it comes to the boards, and that is before

[1:37:38] you tonight.

[1:37:38] Is this all by email, did you?

[1:37:40] Is that right?

[1:37:41] No, there were public meetings, they were recorded and they happened, and this real

[1:37:45] I said at the Dias and several different community members, members of the airport, commercial

[1:37:51] users, general aviation, came and gave public testimony.

[1:37:54] I also had an email address that people could submit, and I have forwarded you every single

[1:38:00] email that has come in from the Pueblo air commons for any of the users or anybody that wanted

[1:38:06] to adjust any of this information.

[1:38:07] Again, so there were members of the current airport board that were involved and or there

[1:38:13] There are tenants involved as well, current tenants?

[1:38:16] Anybody from the public, any tenant,

[1:38:19] anybody who was part of the current airport commission

[1:38:22] could have come and give comments on those two days.

[1:38:25] All right, thank you.

[1:38:26] You're welcome.

[1:38:26] All right, no other questions?

[1:38:29] Councillor Gomez.

[1:38:30] Just again, it's another indication you have a board

[1:38:32] airport member and he doesn't even know about this.

[1:38:35] I want to make sure that the rest of the constituents

[1:38:39] these feel comfortable. I don't. I don't see what the big deal is voting on each one of these

[1:38:46] gems. I don't think that much won't work, but there's a lot of things I don't know about two of

[1:38:50] these gentlemen and two I know a little bit more about. So it's not fair on both both ways.

[1:38:54] So I don't feel comfortable. I think we need to separate these and vote on them individually.

[1:38:59] And that's the motion I've made. And that's the motion we're going to vote on. Councillor.

[1:39:02] I just want to add that I did give a presentation to City Council in which I put up on the screen

[1:39:08] actually, the two different dates that City Council could come, so every single City Council member was here, and you were made aware

[1:39:16] several times that these meetings were taking place.

[1:39:20] So to say that nobody on City Council knew or

[1:39:24] was advised you were on multiple occasions.

[1:39:28] I'm talking from myself. I'm not talking from the Council. I don't feel comfortable voting. I know what the problem is.

[1:39:33] Why can't you accept that?

[1:39:34] Councillor, you have a motion. We're good.

[1:39:38] We have a motion to postpone and bring back as

[1:39:42] four separate resolutions with a second. It's called for the vote.

[1:39:50] Passes 6 to 1. Mr. Clerk, we now move to the regular agenda. Resolutions item Q1.

[1:40:01] Item Q1, resolution authorizing payment from the council contingency account in the 2026 general fund budget to Pueblo Chamber of Commerce in the amount of 2,500 to sponsor the Pueblo Chilli Balloon Fest, taking place at Lane Goening Soccer Fields and the historic downtown Pueblo on Union Avenue on Friday, September 18th from 3 p.m. to 12 a.m., Saturday, September 19th, from 10 a.m. to 12 a.m., and Sunday, September 20th, 2026 from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m.,

[1:40:30] Thank you, Mr. Clerk, we have a staff report.

[1:40:33] Yes, thank you, President Alif, Council, and Mayor Graham.

[1:40:36] This is a request from Councillor Ted Hernandez to sponsor the Pueblo Chamber of Commerce,

[1:40:42] Chile and Balloon Fest, and that's taking place at Lingoni soccer fields and in historic downtown

[1:40:48] Pueblo. The request for $2,500 during Balloon Fest, 20 plus giant hot air balloons will inflate and

[1:40:56] and launch from the soccer fields and fly over the city for about one to two hours weather

[1:41:00] permitting. Sponsorship funds will be used to cover the cost related for travel, room

[1:41:06] and board for all of the ballooness who are volunteers.

[1:41:09] Council has sponsored this event annually since 2022 for 2500 and the estimated cost is about

[1:41:16] 30 grand. As of August 13th, they had received $20,000 in sponsorship funds and this sponsorship

[1:41:24] Chair, does include a hot air balloon ride for three, if anyone's interested.

[1:41:29] And the contingency balance is $35,250 if approved, and that concludes my staff report, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

[1:41:37] Thank you for that report, Mr. Martinez, you signed up to speak on this?

[1:41:49] That's one heck of a city employee, and thank you, Katie, for reaching back out to me on Friday.

[1:41:55] So on this one, as I read in on the paperwork that was put out,

[1:42:00] So it was 1500 last year, so why are they asking for a $1,000 more, so we could amend this back to $1,500 and how it was stated, whether permitting its mother nature so, if weather does not permit, we so pay these people the pilots to come on out, so that's paying room and board.

[1:42:22] So I'll ask for you guys once again to amend this to $1,500 to match last year's, so we could have a bit more money left in the council fund over here.

[1:42:33] And then, amending it to $1,500 would give two rights instead of three, whether permitting.

[1:42:42] Who with those possible two people be if amended to $1,500?

[1:42:46] And if you guys don't amend it, who are those three people be because I would not like it and no offense for any elected official to do that because I would see that as kind of a conflict of interest and just to gain

[1:43:05] right up in the sky when it could go to any veteran out there that burned that right.

[1:43:13] that is not electroficial. And then also who would and it also includes passes to the festival

[1:43:22] who are getting those passes shouldn't be no elected official. It should be veterans.

[1:43:27] And then who would the two shirts go to? Once again, no elected officials, veterans. How much

[1:43:34] do you live always says veterans first of that nature. And then for transparency reasons,

[1:43:40] It should be made public who is receiving all of these right here.

[1:43:46] And so, once again, I'm always up here gripping at you guys to save money, and I'll talk again here later.

[1:43:53] But please amend this to 1500 to match last year's fund, because as we know Council funds last year was 100,000 and it went down to 85,000 this year.

[1:44:04] So I don't know why several nonprofits are always asking for more money than last year.

[1:44:09] So please amended to 1,500. Thank you. Thank you. Is there a motion to approve. Councillor

[1:44:17] Boston. Is there a second? Second. Second. Councillor Dante. Any questions?

[1:44:25] Councillor

[1:44:25] Gomez. So it was $2,500 last year. Was there a thing? I'll double check and it might have

[1:44:32] just been a typo on my part, but I'll double check it.

[1:44:38] We are. We're trying to do our

[1:44:41] to ensure responsibility and I see all these, I don't know, a lot of ass, I'm in the,

[1:44:48] trying to settle my mind with all the different things that are coming forward and counsel.

[1:44:51] And once 2500, or once 15, and once 1,000, trying to find a fair place that we can, and then

[1:44:57] I look at the time of the three days.

[1:45:00] Four hours, two hours. All these things, and then what other, any other associated fundraising that they're getting, those are the kind of things I want to make sure I'm doing right so. I think I would limit this to the $1500 as well for now. Thank you. Councillor Dante. When I look at these basically grants that we're giving out through the Council contingencies,

[1:45:29] I look at what type of event it is.

[1:45:34] If it's an event that's a sit down dinner where only a certain number of people can come to, I think less money.

[1:45:42] If it's an event that the whole city can go to, I think, more money.

[1:45:47] So I'm happy with the $2,500 on this one, thank you.

[1:45:51] Thank you. Any other questions?

[1:45:54] It's call for the vote.

[1:46:04] Pass a 7-0, Mr. Clerk,

[1:46:10] it wouldn't make any difference.

[1:46:13] It's red.

[1:46:14] It is.

[1:46:16] Mr. Clerk, item Q2.

[1:46:21] Item Q2, resolution authorizing payment from the Council contingencies account in the 2026 General Fund Budget to Mountain Park Environmental Association doing business, nature and wildlife discovery center in the amount of

[1:46:34] 2,500 to sponsor the land and legacy benefit dinner on Friday, September 25th, 2026, from 5 to 9 p.m.

[1:46:43] at the Pueblo Union Depot.

[1:46:46] Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

[1:46:47] We have a staff report.

[1:46:48] Yes, this is a request from Councillor Ted Hernandez to sponsor the nature and wildlife discovery centers

[1:46:53] land and legacy benefit dinner.

[1:46:55] That's coming up on September 25th, and that will be at the Pueblo Union Depot at 5 p.m.

[1:47:00] The request is for 2,500.

[1:47:02] Proceeds from this event will be used to support their youth education programs,

[1:47:07] raptor rehabilitation programs, and the monumental recovery of Pueblo Mountain Park and

[1:47:13] Horseshoe Lodge following the destruction from the Aspen-Agris Fire.

[1:47:17] Councils did sponsor this organization's Winter Solstice celebration in 2024 for 900.

[1:47:23] But this is the first for this event.

[1:47:26] The estimated cost for the event this year is 30,000.

[1:47:29] And as of August 13th, they had 19,000 in pledged sponsorships.

[1:47:34] The cost to attend is about $75 and this sponsorship tier does include eight tickets to the event and an annual membership to the center for all eight guests.

[1:47:46] In the contingency balance, if approved is $32,750 and that concludes my staff report, happy to answer questions.

[1:47:52] Thank you for the report. Is there a motion to approve?

[1:47:56] Councillor Boaston. Is there a second?

[1:47:58] Second.

[1:47:59] Councillor Ruiz Gomez, questions.

[1:48:02] Councillor Ruiz go? No, Councillor Gomez.

[1:48:05] What was the amount last year that was good?

[1:48:09] No, it wasn't it?

[1:48:10] This is all obviously the other

[1:48:15] questions.

[1:48:15] Any other questions?

[1:48:16] It's called for the vote.

[1:48:27] Passes 70, Mr. Clerk, item Q3.

[1:48:31] Item Q3, resolution authorizing payment from the council

[1:48:34] of contingencies account in the 2026 General Fund budget to park view foundation in the amount of $2,000 to sponsor the 45th annual Starlight Gala golden legacy on Friday, September 25th, 2026 from 530 to 10pm at the Pueblo Convention Center.

[1:48:51] Thank you, Mr. Clark. We have a staff report.

[1:48:53] Yes, this is a request from Councillor Bret Boston to sponsor park view foundations and Starlight Gala on September 25th.

[1:49:00] The request is for $2,000 sponsorship funds or proceeds from the event will be split evenly

[1:49:06] in thirds between the Pueblo Police Department, the County Sheriff and Parkview Foundation.

[1:49:14] Council did sponsor this event last year for 1,500 and as of August 13, they had received

[1:49:19] $57,000 in sponsorship funds.

[1:49:22] The cost to attend is $150 and this tier does include a table for 10.

[1:49:28] The contingency balance, if approved, is $30,750 and that concludes my staff report.

[1:49:35] I'm happy to answer any questions.

[1:49:36] Thank you for that report, Mr. Martinez, you signed up for this?

[1:49:40] Did you guys miss me?

[1:49:42] That's a no.

[1:49:44] So, once again,

[1:49:48] I'll say it in other words, you guys are too

[1:49:51] dang liberal with the taxpayer's money, not conservative whatsoever and we all know the

[1:49:57] make-up of City Council, so think about it.

[1:50:01] So, I would politely ask you guys to amend this to $1,500 because I know Ms. Dante looks at everything. She has for many years, like I have, but I don't know if all of you guys looked at all of the attachments. So, the difference between $1,500 and $2,000, it's an extra $500 just to have our logo on the table and on the screens. That's pretty dang expensive, just to put a logo on the table.

[1:50:29] the table $500 and on the screen, it makes no difference to put that right there for

[1:50:38] an extra $500. And I think that's just a rip-off. And right here, either, well, even with

[1:50:47] the $1,500, it'll still give us tickets. And most people wouldn't be able to afford this.

[1:50:54] So if we have veterans or first responders, give them the tickets and City Council could pay for their own, the mayor could pay for her own if she wants to attend.

[1:51:04] So I don't think you guys would amend this because you guys hardly ever amend anything lower and we're running out of funds.

[1:51:15] I get some calculation and with the rest of the meetings left, we're only going to be able to give away about $3,700 per meeting.

[1:51:23] on average $3,800. And we're well over that on this meeting. So we have no clue it's

[1:51:29] going to be coming up in next month, October, and then around the holiday season when

[1:51:35] other people want $5,6, $700. So think wisely and remember when you run again.

[1:51:41] Thank you. Is there a motion to approve? Councillor Gomez, is there a second? Second, by

[1:51:47] by Councillor Dante. Any questions? It's called for the vote.

[1:51:51] I had a question. Councillor Williams. Thank you.

[1:51:55] Katie, would you mind just one more time? Do you say that this? The proceeds are going

[1:52:04] to be split in third. Can you one more time tell us where the Parkview Foundation is going

[1:52:09] to be splitting their proceeds to? Yes. So all of the proceeds from the event will be split

[1:52:16] in 3rds evenly between the Pueblo Police Department,

[1:52:21] the Pueblo County Sheriff's Office,

[1:52:23] and Park View Foundation.

[1:52:25] And the funds that go towards Park View Foundation

[1:52:28] just go towards their hospital initiatives

[1:52:32] that advance patient care.

[1:52:34] Okay.

[1:52:35] Did it talk a little talk about what the promises

[1:52:39] for the police department and the sheriffs

[1:52:41] are gonna be funded for in particular?

[1:52:44] No. They just shared that they would be funding those departments.

[1:52:50] Okay. Thank you.

[1:52:52] Any other questions? Councillor Dante?

[1:52:55] Yes. As I said before, normally, if there's a dinner, I would cut it down to 1,500 as well.

[1:53:03] But being that this is spent for three different sections or organizations, I would leave it at

[1:53:12] Thank you.

[1:53:14] Thank you.

[1:53:15] Any other questions?

[1:53:16] Call for the vote.

[1:53:25] Pass a 6-1.

[1:53:26] Mr. Clerk, item Q4.

[1:53:29] Item Q4.

[1:53:31] Resolution declaring the intent of the City of Pueblo, Colorado, to issue revenue bonds in

[1:53:35] the connection with financing residential facilities for low and middle-income families of persons.

[1:53:42] Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

[1:53:43] We have staff report.

[1:53:45] Yes.

[1:53:45] Thank you, President Alif.

[1:53:46] Private activity bonds or PABs are tax exempt or a tax exempt financing tool used to support qualifying private projects that serve a public purpose including affordable housing.

[1:53:57] PABs are not actual dollars rather they provide access to tax exempt financing for eligible private entities which results in a reduced interest rate.

[1:54:06] The city receives an annual allocation but is strictly prohibited from using the bonds for its own purposes.

[1:54:12] For 2026, the City of Pueblo received a PAB, a private activity bond allocation of $7,675,759.

[1:54:21] Each year, by September 15th, the city must allocate the bonds, carry forward the bonds, or reassign the bonds.

[1:54:27] This resolution would carry forward that allocation for the Tava Square apartments, which is a 105 unit affordable housing development proposed by Rocky Mountain communities, a non-profit developer.

[1:54:37] Public County is also expected to carry forward approximately $3.9 million, which is their full

[1:54:43] 2026 allocation at the Board of County Commissioners meeting this upcoming Thursday, August 27th.

[1:54:49] In 2025, the city carried forward approximately $7.3 million for this same project,

[1:54:54] and the county carried forward as well their entire application, which was $3.7 million.

[1:55:00] $2.2 million approximately. Combined with the 2025 and 2026 allocations, the top of square apartments is looking at a total of $22.6 million in private activity bond capacity.

[1:55:12] Currently, Rocky Mountain Communities has an executed a purchase agreement with NeighborWorks of Sedan, Colorado. Sorry, can we just one second?

[1:55:22] For the property located within the Pikes Peak Park development on the public's west side. This demonstrates both side control and the readiness for the proposed development. Staff anticipated from the outset of

[1:55:32] this project that it would require two full years of private activity bond carry forward

[1:55:36] from both the city and the county in order to make the financing structure work.

[1:55:40] As such, this is expected to be the final carry forward for the top of square apartments

[1:55:44] and we do not expect an additional carry forward in 2027.

[1:55:48] Once the 2026 allocations are carried forward, this would be the full project financial

[1:55:53] stack as far as the bonds are considered.

[1:55:58] This carry forward continues to demonstrate the city's continued commitment to supporting

[1:56:02] of affordable housing within the public community.

[1:56:05] Bonds are an important and very unique development tool available to municipalities, and because

[1:56:10] affordable housing developments often require significant bond capital, it is very common

[1:56:15] for multiple-year private activity bond allocations.

[1:56:19] If this resolution is not approved and the city does not otherwise preserve our use for the

[1:56:22] 2026 bonds by September 15th, the unused allocation would automatically go back and be reverted

[1:56:28] to the Department of Local Affairs for use potentially outside of the city of Pueblo.

[1:56:33] This concludes my staff report.

[1:56:34] Thank you for that report.

[1:56:36] Is there a motion to approve?

[1:56:38] Councillor Gomez, is there a second?

[1:56:40] Councillor Latino, any questions?

[1:56:43] Councillor Dante?

[1:56:46] I'm seeing that there's $7 million here that you're going to use for low and middle income.

[1:56:54] Do you have an idea of what you're going to do?

[1:57:00] Yes, so these bonds will be reserved to create the 105 unit Tova Square Apartments.

[1:57:06] They will be de-restricted at or below 60% of their median income, which is required by the bonds.

[1:57:12] Okay, thank you.

[1:57:14] Councillor Gomez.

[1:57:16] Yeah, I don't want to fake anybody here saying I don't understand all the revenue bond stuff

[1:57:19] that you're talking about because I don't.

[1:57:21] And I don't think a lot of people in the audience, unless you're in this field, I don't feel comfortable.

[1:57:26] You said 100 and now the revenue bond explained that just a little bit more so the rest of us can get it or the rest I can get it.

[1:57:33] So bonds are not dollars.

[1:57:36] The federal government allows municipalities of a certain size you have to be a minimum size.

[1:57:43] They allow us bond capital or bond cap is what it's called to then allocate to different eligible projects.

[1:57:50] All that a bond really is, is the capital market, so a bank will allow you to have or give you a lower interest rate in exchange for a tax credit that they are getting.

[1:58:02] And so depending on the interest rate, this results in the $7.6 million for 2026 will result in a roughly $100,000 annual reduction in debt service for this project.

[1:58:14] All right.

[1:58:16] Okay.

[1:58:17] Clear as much.

[1:58:19] Thank you.

[1:58:20] Councillor Ruiz Gomez.

[1:58:21] Thank you.

[1:58:22] So does this mean we will be financing the project?

[1:58:27] No.

[1:58:28] No.

[1:58:28] We literally just give the authority for them to go find their own private financing and that

[1:58:33] bank would then apply for the tax credit from the federal government.

[1:58:37] We are just the pass-through entity.

[1:58:39] So these are not dollars and I understand this is, it's very confusing, it takes a lot

[1:58:44] a lot of time to really dive in and understand this, so they are not dollars.

[1:58:48] There's no dollars associated here.

[1:58:50] We are just given the authority to hand over that federal tax credit to someone else.

[1:58:56] We cannot utilize it ourselves, that's the private, in the private activity bond,

[1:58:59] it has to be done by a private entity.

[1:59:01] So about 85% of them nationwide are used for building affordable housing, affordable housing creation.

[1:59:08] It's not the only use, there are other uses, but it's the most common and

[1:59:12] And the easiest use of private activity bonds.

[1:59:15] How much would you say when these 150 units are developed,

[1:59:21] what would be the ballpark rent and

[1:59:24] not neighborhood that the folks would be able to access these units for?

[1:59:30] Yeah, so it depends on your household size.

[1:59:35] And which one of those brackets you fall under if you're 40, 50, 60% of the area median income.

[1:59:42] And so it really just depends again on your household size, but we are talking about rents that some of them will be deeply subsidized at roughly $500 per month and then some that will be much less subsidized that may go up to $1,400 per month.

[1:59:56] And so, you have a variety of rents in a product-

[2:00:00] They call it the unit mix and that unit mix is very important. You want to have some that have deep subsidies. You want to have some that don't have as deep of subsidies so that they can generate the revenue to go and pay the debt service on this bond. Can you explain the debt service? Like does that mean that the developers responsible or does that come back to us and they go or that? No, nothing comes back to us. And to be clear, nobody is approved.

[2:00:29] this bond tonight, this is simply to roll over and carry forward before the statutory September 15th deadline.

[2:00:36] Once we get a contract in place, we will come back with a developer agreement, and that will have all of the specifics.

[2:00:43] So some of this is not even clearly identified yet, because the project has not yet applied for

[2:00:48] low-income housing tax credits and the other components of their financial stack that will be required.

[2:00:54] Can you tell me the name of the development again that you're working with?

[2:00:59] Neighborhood works.

[2:01:00] So we are working with Rocky Mountain Communities.

[2:01:04] Rocky Mountain Communities has an option agreement to purchase the Tava Square Apartments,

[2:01:08] which is part of the total development that NeighborWorks has done, which is Pikes Peak Park.

[2:01:15] So it is not the entire Pikes Peak Park, it is just one project within Pikes Peak Park.

[2:01:21] When do you anticipate this coming up on a vote for the use?

[2:01:27] So they are anticipating to apply for low income housing tax credits in the April

[2:01:33] round for the Colorado Housing and Finance Authority or Chaffa.

[2:01:38] We would come to you at some point after they were awarded.

[2:01:41] It would likely be later next year.

[2:01:44] We anticipate that an award would probably happen in mid-summer and then we would work with

[2:01:48] all of the attorneys involved to come up with an X or a good acceptable developer agreement.

[2:01:54] And then that would come to council.

[2:01:56] Likely late 2027, it's possible it could be early 2028, just depending.

[2:02:01] Okay, thank you.

[2:02:02] Any other questions?

[2:02:05] Let's call for the vote.

[2:02:13] Pass of 70, Mr. Clerk, item Q5, item Q5, a resolution establishing a schedule of fees for

[2:02:21] the impoundment and storage of abandoned shopping carts pursuant to section 7-3-6-7,

[2:02:26] the Pueblo Municipal Code.

[2:02:28] Thank you, Mr. Clerk, we have staff report.

[2:02:31] Yes, Mr. President, members and Councillors, we're getting the resolution before you is a

[2:02:35] re-presentation of the, excuse me, if the resolution was presented on August 10th related to the

[2:02:41] setting of fees for the impoundment and management of shopping carts that are collected and

[2:02:46] compounded by the city. You may recall that this was tabled or postponed

[2:02:53] until tonight, but there has been no specific question or information request that's

[2:02:58] come from council in the past two weeks. So we're presenting obviously the resolution

[2:03:03] in its current form as it was presented on August 10th. I think it's important for council

[2:03:09] to recall that this is a fee schedule that is required by the code, the ordinance was adopted

[2:03:18] back in 2024.

[2:03:22] It contemplates setting this fee schedule separately by a separate resolution,

[2:03:26] so that's why this is being brought forward. So that concludes my staff report and I'll take any

[2:03:30] questions you have at this time. Thank you for that report. Mr. Martinez, you signed up to speak on this.

[2:03:43] So, I remember this was on the agenda back in, 2024, I was against it then, still against it now, because this will hurt any business that wants to move here.

[2:03:53] Talk about economic development, how we're going to get another grocery store here, if we want to implement this, if some idiot takes their cart,

[2:04:01] went to find the idiot that takes the cart and not the business.

[2:04:07] It makes absolutely no sense.

[2:04:08] Yes, it puts a lot of work on Mr. Hayes, his people, fire, PD, whoever is picking them up.

[2:04:16] But what other cities are doing this?

[2:04:18] And when all of this was on the agenda, I reached out to some council members out in Kenyon City.

[2:04:23] They have something similar to this, but they do not find the stores whatsoever.

[2:04:28] However, so if you guys want to kick the can down the road for another three weeks because it'll be the 14th of September that you guys meet and talk to the elected body out in Canyon City.

[2:04:44] Because this absolutely makes zero sense.

[2:04:47] Let's find a business that pays a lot of taxes to be here when some knucklehead or knuckleheads steal their cards.

[2:04:57] That's like saying if you get something

[2:05:00] If somebody owns a gun, and the gun gets stolen, that person's going to get fined for having their gun stolen when it was locked up. No, if you have an alley in your backyard, and somebody that's dump a couch and other stuff, city's probably going to find you. That makes no sense when it wasn't you. They did it. You might have to pay to haul it off since you want to get in your garage if the garage is in the back. We have to hold knuckleheads,

[2:05:29] It's responsible for their actions and not a business.

[2:05:35] And I was spoken about earlier by Mr. Gomez, whoever he spoke to, I have no clue, don't want to know, that's private conversation.

[2:05:43] But how many other people have reached out to King Super's, Walmart, Target, and when a card is found, how are we going to know which Walmart it came from?

[2:05:54] How are we going to know which dollar general it came from?

[2:05:57] It's not identified by the store number.

[2:06:01] Maybe we could tell the stores to put some type of sticker on the bottom or on the

[2:06:06] side saying this is store 2500, whatever the store number is.

[2:06:12] That's how you identify them specifically.

[2:06:15] And there's other small mom and pop places that have carts from other places that have shut

[2:06:21] their business.

[2:06:23] So you're going to find that mom and pop shop if you find out that they have a circuit

[2:06:26] city, one, or a Kmart, or big lots, or whatever, that's shuttered, ridiculous,

[2:06:32] so either vote this down, postpone it until next time, and speak to the elected

[2:06:37] body out in Canyon City. Thank you.

[2:06:40] Thank you. Is there a motion to approve, motion to approve?

[2:06:43] Councillor Gomez, is there a second?

[2:06:44] Second.

[2:06:45] Second by Councillor Dante. Any questions? Councillor Gomez.

[2:06:50] Yours, again, about the stuff that's in the cart when it leaves the store.

[2:06:53] If it's packed and they can't stop it, what happens all that material, what happens all that?

[2:06:58] But I'm having a problem with is that the store is the vendors and I feel for it. I don't want to lose a vendor,

[2:07:03] but when they say hey and your employees stop them, we're gonna fire them.

[2:07:09] Where do you think the cost they're gonna go to? Everybody's complaining about high cost?

[2:07:13] How do you think this is gonna end up? There's gotta be some responsibility on the vendors and maybe if we could get a little bit more

[2:07:19] intervention we don't have the police to do it right now. I wouldn't think that's a priority call to the police

[2:07:25] department. I just don't. How else do you solve this thing? You got to make the corporate people take some

[2:07:32] oneness in this thing and just saying, well, it's a cart. No, it's not just a cart. A lot of these

[2:07:37] cars are leaving with a lot of gross residue. That's what I'm concerned about. Are we doing anything to

[2:07:42] stop this? Because if not, every one of the taxpayers are taking a hit on this in every single store and

[2:07:48] And every single item and every single cart that he put it in.

[2:07:51] That's all I'm saying.

[2:07:52] I think we got to start getting a little bit tough all over the board, not just there.

[2:07:56] Thanks.

[2:07:57] Any other questions?

[2:07:59] Councilor Dante.

[2:08:01] Good evening, Andrew.

[2:08:04] I'm looking at, I'm looking at a larger picture here.

[2:08:09] We've got cards.

[2:08:10] We've got food theft.

[2:08:11] We have the cart management system.

[2:08:14] I look at cards like if somebody went in the store and took a Twinkie and took it and

[2:08:19] I hate it and through the trash on the ground.

[2:08:24] If it was a Kirkland cupcake,

[2:08:26] you would know what store came from.

[2:08:28] But you would go back to them and say,

[2:08:30] hey, you need to pay for this being out here.

[2:08:34] But yet the cart management system,

[2:08:36] that's a whole different thing

[2:08:38] because it's not somebody else stealing their stuff.

[2:08:41] It's something that they're putting into a system

[2:08:45] that will prevent the theft.

[2:08:50] And my suggestion would be to look at the cart management system and look at how many stores do not have it and find them according to who doesn't have the management system, not on how many carts are out there.

[2:09:09] And it would be just a flat fee.

[2:09:11] It would not be a fee for one or two or five, you know,

[2:09:15] it would be one flat pay, which would make it a lot easier too.

[2:09:19] It's just an idea.

[2:09:22] Thank you.

[2:09:23] Councilor Latino?

[2:09:24] Yes, I agree with Councilwoman Dante.

[2:09:30] What they're doing, and again, it's, I find a lot of them

[2:09:35] in my district,

[2:09:38] the homeless are using a lot of them,

[2:09:40] and they just say the vendor just says,

[2:09:44] okay well we'll make it up with the cost of the item from the good people that come in and buy

[2:09:51] the goods and pay for them so they make up the they make up the loss through the good vendors that

[2:09:57] come up to excuse me through the good good customers it

[2:10:00] Come in, pay their bills, and walk out. The price is just go up. So, again, I agree with Councilwoman Dante. Councilor Boston. Thank you, Mr. President. Mr. Hayes, can you tell me exactly what it would cost for recuperation of carts for the business? You're talking about what it costs the city to recover and return carts for a cost for a shopping cart. How much it would cost the business to recoup them from the city?

[2:10:29] Well, it depends, so there's three components to the fee schedule as proposed.

[2:10:34] There's just an initial impoundment fee that's $35 per cart.

[2:10:38] That's, again, supposed to help offset the cost for city staff and equipment used to go collect those.

[2:10:46] There's a $2 per day impoundment or storage fee that's on there.

[2:10:50] And then there's, I believe it's a $15 per cart disposal fee if it's held more than the 30 days.

[2:10:59] So that fee collectively would be capped at $95 per cart because the $2 per day fee would stop

[2:11:07] crewing at the end of that 30 day period.

[2:11:09] But it gives stores enough time to also be able to come back and collect their carts, so it depends.

[2:11:14] A, there's initial fee when it gets picked up, but if they're prompting, picking them up,

[2:11:17] those fees can be kept to a minimum, $35, $37 for the next day, that kind of thing.

[2:11:22] So, it varies, but the fees could be relatively low for vendors who are interested in seeing their cards return to them.

[2:11:31] And is there any way to get the fees waived by the businesses?

[2:11:34] So currently, in the underlying ordinance, this isn't in the resolution, but in the underlying ordinance,

[2:11:39] there is a grace period that is set up that will expire at the end of this year.

[2:11:44] But that grace period allows those retailers to be able to present a shopping cart management

[2:11:50] plan.

[2:11:51] Essentially, they just need to address how are they trying to keep shopping carts from

[2:11:56] leaving their property?

[2:11:57] They're doing something actively to do so.

[2:11:59] Many places just don't even have any kind of system at all.

[2:12:02] But that shopping cart system management plan does not make any minimum specific requirements

[2:12:06] that doesn't have to be some fancy electronic locking system.

[2:12:10] It doesn't have to be some high-tech thing that keeps the carts from leaving the premises, the permit, right?

[2:12:19] I think those are systems that might work, but they can also be very expensive and

[2:12:23] it might only be economically viable for a retailer with a large number of carts.

[2:12:29] But it could be something as simple as locking up the carts and

[2:12:33] preventing them from leaving the property when they're not in use.

[2:12:36] for actively employing staff to go collect the cards before they're taken off the property.

[2:12:43] So there's a number of ways that that could be addressed.

[2:12:45] Currently, that provision expires on December 31st.

[2:12:49] So that's not the subject of this resolution, but it could be something that Council could

[2:12:55] consider if that was directed to extend that grace period that something we could bring forward

[2:13:00] if Council wanted to see that.

[2:13:02] So Council could potentially, if we see them actively trying to put, you know, the locking

[2:13:08] mechanisms or lock them up a night or have somebody running up more often, maybe the

[2:13:11] fees could potentially even be waived if we gave direction to do so.

[2:13:15] That's correct.

[2:13:15] We could bring forward an ordinance to amend the current code and then the ordinance is in

[2:13:20] place to shape this the way you'd like to see it come forward, just the way that it's considered

[2:13:25] right now.

[2:13:26] It is simply, if fee schedule needs to be implemented, so that's what this particular

[2:13:30] resolutions about.

[2:13:31] And what is the proximate ballpark cost of a cart?

[2:13:35] I'm sure they vary, but we've seen anywhere from $400 to $600 a cart, so there's a significant

[2:13:40] amount of money that leaves the retailers when they lose a cart too.

[2:13:46] So in many ways it's in their interest to also employ some kind of shopping cart management

[2:13:50] strategies of some kind.

[2:13:51] So then getting carts stolen and not getting carts back would probably be more expensive to buy

[2:13:56] I knew one than try to retrieve their cards.

[2:13:59] So those more expensive costs might be passed on.

[2:14:01] That's probably true.

[2:14:03] I understand that some retailers do file claims with insurance

[2:14:06] and those sorts of things, particularly those that lose lots of cards.

[2:14:10] But again, those are losses that they pay premiums for,

[2:14:15] and those premiums are passed through to consumers as well.

[2:14:17] So either way, I think consumers are taking a hit whether there are city imposed processes here,

[2:14:26] or if retailers just aren't doing anything to try to stop the cards from leaving in the first place.

[2:14:33] Thank you. Thanks.

[2:14:35] I think we'll get a little clarity.

[2:14:37] Councillor Gomez. A little clarity on something.

[2:14:39] If it's a $95 hit and I own a grocery store, from point A to point B to the $95, how many days are we talking to it?

[2:14:48] Including the $2 fee, whatever, how many days is that?

[2:14:51] That's the 30 days, so.

[2:14:53] That's 30 days, so we're going to get a $95 hit for 30 days if it was it was collected 35

[2:15:00] $30, then $2 per day for the storage fee. And if it's held all the way through that 30 days, then another $15 for us to dispose of it. If they come to pick it up, the fees would obviously stop accruing the data, it came to get it. So it could be less than that significantly. The $35 would be the initial fee though for us to collect and, you know, you staff and equipment again to collect those cards and bring them to the storage area.

[2:15:24] Do you have an average in reference to how many cards are stolen in fair weather, hot weather, cold weather?

[2:15:32] Is that, it's got a very somewhat, I can imagine the mail, wouldn't it ain't going to do when you're doing a lot of that?

[2:15:36] But do you have any numbers like that you've broken out?

[2:15:39] I have not, not explicitly, those are a good point to you, right?

[2:15:44] I mean, the fee schedule is set by resolution.

[2:15:47] And if the fee schedule turns out that this is not meant to be a penalty,

[2:15:52] It's meant to offset the cost that the city is incurring for managing this program and taking care of these issues.

[2:16:02] If we find that it's costing less than the fees coming in to manage the shopping cars we're collecting,

[2:16:10] we can bring a amendment forward to also reduce the fee schedule back to offset these costs.

[2:16:15] But it's meant to, again, offset costs.

[2:16:17] not as a penalty, you know, has, I think in a secondary effect of nudging retailers in the right way to achieve a benefit of not having these cars leave the property, but it's not its intent.

[2:16:33] It's simply meant to help pay for the services that are being provided by city staff.

[2:16:39] I'm just, well, I'm just struggling with this because I don't know how to make the corporate

[2:16:45] folks a little bit more responsible and take this seriously and I don't know what your

[2:16:50] numbers are.

[2:16:50] I mean, I don't know 14 carts in one location.

[2:16:54] The carts that they have to use now, they've gone from that metal, which are about 600

[2:17:00] to the hybrid cart that's plastic on top and the metal on the bottom.

[2:17:03] Those are about 350, okay.

[2:17:05] Okay, so I'm just wondering, is there an answer to this or we're just saying the other

[2:17:10] thing is that a homeless person I spoke with said, and I don't know, I haven't tried

[2:17:14] yet, I'm not homeless yet, but I'm getting there, I'm just wondering, they said to me, if

[2:17:20] you take the car, one guy gets on one end, the guy gets in and they lift it up, the ones

[2:17:26] that stop when you're outside, you can't go any further, they can trigger that by taking

[2:17:32] it and moving it and then the problem solved. Have you heard that?

[2:17:35] I am sure there are some systems that people can work around, right?

[2:17:40] That's what I'm thinking.

[2:17:40] We have a lot of mechanics in Pueblo.

[2:17:42] Well, I'm just trying to see how do we solve this. It's a tough one.

[2:17:45] But, okay, that's all I had.

[2:17:46] Thank you.

[2:17:47] One piece of your point here, or one case in point you asked, or I guess, how many carts do

[2:17:52] we pick up? And it varies wildly. Sometimes it's just one in the middle of the street or

[2:17:57] on the side of the road or in an alley. But frequently, particularly in areas where in

[2:18:01] campments have been an issue, long-fountain creek, for instance, we will find sometimes

[2:18:07] hundreds. And so this, the cost of us, I guess, collecting this and the equipment needed

[2:18:12] to get back there and go collect them and strap them down and make multiple trips, it

[2:18:18] can vary wildly. And so just loading up one shopping cart in the back of a pickup truck

[2:18:22] is one thing. But sometimes, again, we're talking about hundreds of carts that are stacked

[2:18:27] It can vary from case to case, but the city's not collecting their paying the service for somebody to know the city's doing it 100%

[2:18:35] These what we're talking about here is if the city collects collect shopping carts that are if we get a call from a citizen

[2:18:42] There's a shopping cart in my alley

[2:18:45] You know do they need to dispose of it? It's not theirs, right? So we would be collecting it under this ordinance and impounding or impounding and starting to collect fees on that based on the schedules here

[2:18:55] And if it's one cart and it's relatively straightforward, if it's lots and lots of carts down by found creek or in other areas of town where I came into the inner issue again, that's a lot of equipment and manhours and time getting those things collected and hauled to the storage place and then processing that.

[2:19:12] Do we have any other communities that you've looked at similar size, similar budget that I've dealing with this and they've seen a reduction in it?

[2:19:20] We're going to try to do it.

[2:19:22] Do we know that yet?

[2:19:23] I don't, I can't speak to the effectiveness of those programs.

[2:19:28] I feel like this fee schedule, again, is, it has two effects.

[2:19:36] One, of course, is, again, the offset that cost I can talk about.

[2:19:39] The other is, again, it incentivizes store owners to help spend some of that money that they might incur in these fees.

[2:19:48] on the development of plans and shopping cart management systems or other things to keep those cars in.

[2:19:55] So, it's hard to say what the effectiveness will be until it's implemented and in.

[2:20:00] There are a number of cities that have various types of measures. You know, big cities, smaller cities,

[2:20:08] just mentioned, for instance, Kansas City has an ordinance. So there's a number of ways to do this,

[2:20:14] but many have fees. Many have fees that are much, much higher than what's been proposed. That $35

[2:20:20] dollar impoundment fee is kind of in the middle of what I've seen out there and they vary

[2:20:25] from 25 to $80 or so, right? This $35 that wasn't based on what I see out there, it's

[2:20:34] based on what I've tried to perceive it may be an average of staff time and equipment spent

[2:20:39] to go collect and bring those carts back into storage.

[2:20:43] So do you have a shopping cart team sort of like the graffiti team? I mean is that what

[2:20:47] have? It's the same. What would happen if they had somebody that's got a cart and it's not

[2:20:54] sparse them where, but they see somebody with it, how does that work?

[2:20:58] So we're not out wrestling carts out of people's hands, but we find abandoned carts frequently,

[2:21:03] right? People call about abandoned carts on their property. And so those are the kinds of scenarios

[2:21:07] that primarily code enforcement and stormwater public works, the infrastructure departments may find.

[2:21:15] So, these are the kinds of cases in which we are collecting those cards typically.

[2:21:20] The ordinance has separately tools available to the police department for those who are

[2:21:27] defacing or damaging cards or taking cards off properties.

[2:21:31] Those are different.

[2:21:32] Those are handled under the separate part of the ordinance.

[2:21:38] This is simply if we find abandoned shopping cards, there's a process and a fee schedule to

[2:21:42] help offset the cost of managing that.

[2:21:44] Have you had a story refuse to take the cart back?

[2:21:47] I have heard that.

[2:21:49] I have to.

[2:21:50] But I will say that even myself, when I've found carts and

[2:21:56] when we're able to toss them in the back of the truck and take them back to Target, Walmart, Sam's, whoever, right.

[2:22:02] Usually I just put it right back in the shopping cart stall, because that's where they came from.

[2:22:06] So I've done that, but that's not practical to do when we're talking about hundreds and

[2:22:12] hundreds of carts from all over the city.

[2:22:14] This puts a little bit on us, like you said, some accountability for the stores and the retailers.

[2:22:20] It puts a little bit of skin in the game to help kind of prevent this problem from happening.

[2:22:24] So I think that's an important element of what this structure brings.

[2:22:28] Thank you.

[2:22:30] And so this is, you know, for me this is the most bizarre conversation we've ever had in the history of City Council.

[2:22:39] And I'm

[2:22:48] going to say it and then I'll get off that horse.

[2:22:52] It is incredulous that somebody steals somebody's property and then we're going to charge

[2:23:01] them because somebody stole their property.

[2:23:05] I think sometimes the best answers are the simplest answers.

[2:23:10] Every single person that's walking down the street with a shopping cart is in possession of stolen property.

[2:23:18] Why don't we enforce our laws that you're in, if these carts cost $3,000 or $3,000 or whatever,

[2:23:26] somebody has stolen property and it's guaranteed that they didn't buy the cart, right?

[2:23:35] Okay? And that it's not their property.

[2:23:39] Maybe we can reduce the amount of cards that are out there if we actively enforce the

[2:23:46] laws that say you cannot be in receipt of stolen property.

[2:23:51] It just does not make sense to me.

[2:23:53] It never will to go back and charge the business.

[2:23:58] Any kind of money because they got it stolen from them.

[2:24:03] There's no argument that anybody can make to make me think any different.

[2:24:09] I've just never heard of anything like this, but Councillor Boston.

[2:24:14] Thank you, Mr. President.

[2:24:15] I just wanted to speak to Councilman Gomez's question on the effectiveness of this.

[2:24:20] I can speak for my personal experience prior to the mitigation plan or resolution passing.

[2:24:27] I used to have a plethora of shopping carts near my business that were stolen or put in the ditch near my business that were stolen, and since this has been implemented that number has dropped to next to zero, and I used to have 25, 30 a month or more.

[2:24:43] So I do think there is some effectiveness of asking businesses to put forth these plans, and I've seen it personally, I see less of them out there in the community myself, but that's just my personal experience.

[2:24:53] So I do think that the plans have been effective.

[2:24:56] Anybody else, Councillor Hernandez?

[2:24:58] Just what is-

[2:25:00] As the maximum amount, a billion-dollar corporation would have to pay to get their carts returned. So the maximum amount for a cart on the first cart would be $95. If they left the cart and if we collected a cart and we stored it for 30 days and we got to the end and dispose of it, $95. On their fourth or more cart, there's a $50 surcharge as well. So those are the repeat offenders, so to speak, the way the fee schedule set. So if, again, we've got four in a rolling 30-day period.

[2:25:30] then that that fourth or more cart would be subject to the additional search charge.

[2:25:35] Okay, so if I'm the owner of Roger Mart, and I've got a bunch of carts to make it even more ridiculous.

[2:25:43] And I've got a dozen carts that have been stolen from me and you come to me and say you owe me for a dozen carts.

[2:25:49] What's to keep you from saying I gave those carts away, they don't belong to me, I give them away.

[2:25:54] Okay.

[2:25:56] Sure.

[2:25:56] I suppose that that could be something that happens.

[2:26:00] There are-

[2:26:01] You're welcome, everybody.

[2:26:02] Thank you.

[2:26:03] What was that?

[2:26:03] So-

[2:26:05] In general, I mean, the carts are pretty well marked on who's there.

[2:26:08] Sure.

[2:26:09] And if somebody's giving away their property and selling it, generally most companies, when they sell

[2:26:14] off vehicles, equipment, they remove their branding because they don't want their brand

[2:26:20] out there associated with litter in the streets.

[2:26:22] I'm going to say that I can't guarantee that Target, Walmart, Sam's, whoever, right,

[2:26:28] Home Depot would always remove that and it's pretty obvious when you see a red plastic

[2:26:33] shopping cart from over that one cable, right?

[2:26:36] Even if they removed their branding, I think that would still be tough to do.

[2:26:39] But you're right, if somebody, if Target came to me and said, for instance, that we gave

[2:26:47] away these carts, these are not our carts anymore, we'd just be disposing of those carts.

[2:26:51] But again, this is now a burden that the public is picking up.

[2:26:54] Correct.

[2:26:55] And so it's not just the retailers that are affected.

[2:26:58] It's the rest of the businesses that are picking up.

[2:27:00] Thank you.

[2:27:03] Okay, Councillor Latino.

[2:27:05] Thank you.

[2:27:07] I, again, Mr. Hayes and the public works are trying to clean up

[2:27:12] the mess in this community, okay?

[2:27:15] I can't emphasize enough the cleanliness

[2:27:19] of this community growing up.

[2:27:22] And we're not helping people by

[2:27:24] allowing them to steal things.

[2:27:25] That's not what this is all about.

[2:27:28] Okay?

[2:27:30] So, again, when you're on the streets

[2:27:33] at night and I'm on the streets

[2:27:35] at night and you see them walking

[2:27:37] around with the carts from targets

[2:27:39] or Walmart or wherever, again,

[2:27:42] we're not helping by enabling.

[2:27:45] And so I think we need to support

[2:27:47] court, what he has come up with in terms of a plan, and we need to support it wholeheartedly.

[2:27:55] We need to clean this community up.

[2:27:58] Okay, nothing else, let's call for the vote.

[2:28:21] Pass us five to two.

[2:28:23] Mr. Clerk, let's go to item Q6.

[2:28:27] Item Q6, the resolution transferring $232,369.

[2:28:32] $1.13 from Project CI2113, City of Puebla wastewater infrastructure, West 11th Street to West 21st Street, and $396,450.56 from Project CI2113, City of Puebla wastewater infrastructure, Northern Avenue sewer, with $25,000 to be transferred from Project CI2113.

[2:28:58] central renovations and the remainder to project C.I. 2113 neighborhood trash cleanup as an expansion of the program services consistent with the U.S. Treasury S. L. F. R. F. Guidance.

[2:29:11] Thank you, Mr. Clerk. We have a staff report.

[2:29:12] However, high council mayor, the resolution before you transfers from two wastewater ARPA infrastructure projects that came in under budget and had unused funds.

[2:29:31] Per the treasuries guidance, we can transfer this excess to existing projects that were obligated prior to

[2:29:42] December 31st, 2024.

[2:29:46] Within some other parameters also, this resolution transfers 25,000 for cost.

[2:30:02] Overruns at the L-central renovation and the remainder is transferred to the neighborhood trash cleanup project, which is in the qualified census tracks, painting any questions that concludes my report. Thank you for that report. Is there a motion to approve? Motion to approve. Councillor Gomez, is there a second? Second.

[2:30:30] Councillor Dante, any questions? Councillor Dante.

[2:30:35] So with all this mind being transferred, will that close out to our bid count?

[2:30:45] So there are a few projects out there still that are active and open that are still awaiting

[2:30:56] completion but this is one step closer.

[2:31:00] Councillor. Okay. And one happens if there's arpanmaning left over that wasn't obligated

[2:31:08] back in before December 31st of 2024. We're going to send it back.

[2:31:13] Thank you.

[2:31:17] Councillor Gomez. I'm sorry. Councillor Latina.

[2:31:21] I'm sorry. It's call for the vote.

[2:31:35] Passes 7-0. Mr. Clerk, we now move to ordinances. Final

[2:31:39] No presentation, item R1.

[2:31:41] Item R1, an ordinance approval and an accept in the grant funding agreement and all applicable conditions pertaining there to from the Colorado Auto-Theft Prevention Authority, CAPTA relating to the Beat Auto-Theft Through Law Enforcement Battle Team is establishing Project PS-2605 budgeting and appropriating funds to Project PS-2605 and authorizing the mayor to execute same introduced August 10th, 2026 by Councillor Salina Ruiz.

[2:32:09] Thank you, Mr. Clark, we have a staff report.

[2:32:12] Thank you, sir.

[2:32:13] Gave me the President of the A.L.F. members of the Council, Mayor Graham and staff.

[2:32:18] And with me tonight, I have Captain Centeno Oliva.

[2:32:20] He's the captain over our Criminal Investigations Division.

[2:32:24] And in the audience behind me, I have Director Robert Fores.

[2:32:28] He's from the Colorado out of the prevention authority.

[2:32:30] And so we're all here to answer your questions if you have any.

[2:32:34] Okay, so this ordinance approves and accepts a grant.

[2:32:36] funding agreement from the Colorado Out-of-the-Thief Prevention Authority for a statewide battle team.

[2:32:43] Under the city's existing three-year MOU, the police department has been awarded $125,000, $59,

[2:32:50] effective July 1st of this year to support overtime costs for out-of-the-thief investigations and enforcement.

[2:32:57] This ordinance formally establishes Project PS2605 and

[2:33:02] and budgets and appropriates the grant funds accordingly.

[2:33:05] The approval also authorizes the mayor to execute the agreement and associated conditions.

[2:33:11] For some background, the police department has consistently received KAPA grant funding since 2009 as of 17 years ago.

[2:33:19] The state funds are shared statewide among multiple law enforcement agencies and

[2:33:24] supported through the formal MOU that I just referenced.

[2:33:27] The battle task force uses these funds to prevent and reduce auto theft by conducting coordinated

[2:33:32] intelligence driven operations, sharing information across jurisdictions, and improving the storm

[2:33:39] vehicle recoveries and officer arrests, the Finder arrests, excuse me.

[2:33:45] Ground funds must be used in accordance with cap-plots just for the year 27 award requirements

[2:33:50] under this project.

[2:33:52] For the 2025 and 2026 to 2026 grant cycle, our battle team has recovered 165 stolen vehicles

[2:34:00] at a value of almost $1.5 million and made 163 arrests.

[2:34:06] Here today, out of the, the problem was down 11% from 2019 and 38% since last year.

[2:34:14] Two weeks ago, just for an example, they arrested a seven-time felon and he was one of our

[2:34:19] Our former Safe Streets, one of the persons who's in a stolen car, they chased him on foot into a local residence.

[2:34:28] They got him into custody, and then they found an AK-47 inside the vehicle.

[2:34:34] That vehicle, or that person now is being considered by the federal government to take him and

[2:34:38] charge him with federal crimes.

[2:34:42] So that's what we're doing here, this is not a license plate reader ordinance.

[2:34:46] This is just funding for overtime to deal with out-of-theft.

[2:34:50] So like I said, we have been doing since 2020, 2009, and so that concludes my report, and I will accept any questions you have.

[2:35:00] Thank you for that report. I want to remind everybody that this is a public hearing. Is there anyone here wishing to speak in favor of this ordinance? Saying none. Is there anyone here wishing to speak against this ordinance? Come on down. But you guys let him sit there, please.

[2:35:32] If you just give him to the clerk, he'll pass them out.

[2:35:51] Please just state your name and start. Hello, city council. My name is Devon Flores.

[2:35:57] I know that the folks who are just presenting said that this is not a surveillance camera situation,

[2:36:08] but the fact of the matter is that this grant does include a requirement that the city

[2:36:17] continue to cooperate with larger ALPR systems, that's part of what this program includes,

[2:36:28] which is why that's what I'm going to be talking about today.

[2:36:31] I'm not necessarily saying that I like car theft, I don't.

[2:36:35] What I'm saying is that there have been many cases over the years, not just in public, but

[2:36:43] in hundreds of municipalities across the country, where ALPRs and that kind of surveillance

[2:36:49] is snuck into grants, into street improvement funds and things of that nature.

[2:36:58] This is not by far not the most egregious example, it's just the most recent one.

[2:37:06] So with that in mind, I have a couple of very important questions that I think that a lot

[2:37:11] A lot of us in this room and a lot of people in Pueblo want to see answered before the city commits to continuing to work with ALPR companies and continuing to allow them to surveil our streets.

[2:37:27] These are private corporations, not public entities, so holding them accountable for what they do with this information and how they collect it is much more difficult than holding law enforcement accountable.

[2:37:39] And the fact, the most common thing that people keep saying and we hear echoes of this whenever this conversation is brought up, people say if you have nothing to hide, if you're not committing crimes, why are you afraid of these cameras?

[2:37:54] If you have nothing to hide, why do the police need a warrant to enter your house?

[2:37:58] If you have nothing to hide, how come the police need a warrant to surveil your, to tap your phones or to listen in on your conversations?

[2:38:07] These are basic rights and allowing them to be eroded in the name of public safety is very, very dangerous and should be considered with extreme scrutiny, especially given some of the information that comes out about these ALPRs every single day in this country.

[2:38:30] It was brought up earlier by Council Member Gomez, how there are several criminal cases

[2:38:36] in which not just law enforcement but employees of these companies used these cameras to stock

[2:38:43] and spy on people that they know.

[2:38:46] That is a huge breach of privacy.

[2:38:50] And the city at this time does not have guardrails in place, systems in place to hold these

[2:38:59] companies accountable when something bad happens.

[2:39:02] And the justification is consistently that, we're using these to solve so many crimes,

[2:39:08] we're using these to recover so many stolen vehicles.

[2:39:11] I have pulled data from the FBI, from the information that the city of public provides to the FBI

[2:39:18] every single month about such crimes.

[2:39:23] And so since the ones we talked about most recently, could I get the presentation?

[2:39:27] Is that possible?

[2:39:29] We talked about vehicle thefts.

[2:39:33] So vehicle theft is by and large, oh,

[2:39:41] I'll figure it out eventually.

[2:39:43] So vehicle theft is down, but only relative to this massive spike.

[2:39:49] I'm like, yes, it's important that we fight this massive spike, but what was going on back

[2:39:53] here that was keeping vehicle theft down, because it wasn't these cameras.

[2:39:57] These cameras didn't exist.

[2:40:00] 10 or 15 years ago, the technology for them did not exist. And furthermore, when we look at the percent of these vehicle thefts that are being solved, that number is also down and has not significantly changed in the last four or five years since the city started using these cameras. And that is a pattern that you see consistently municipality to municipality across this country. These companies, like FROC, they advertise to

[2:40:28] cities like ours to pray upon our concerns and our anxieties in order to make money.

[2:40:36] They make money off of us and they make money selling our data and training their AI robots to scan for cars.

[2:40:45] And learn different things about how normal people on the street behave.

[2:40:50] That information has value and we trust that they're going to hold to a contract.

[2:40:55] Even if the contract says that they have to delete this information,

[2:40:59] what's the fine for breaking the contract?

[2:41:02] Probably a lot less than the money they make by breaking the contract.

[2:41:06] So how can we trust these companies?

[2:41:08] Thank you, sir.

[2:41:09] Thank you.

[2:41:10] Is there anyone else wishing to speak against this ordinance?

[2:41:17] I know the drill.

[2:41:19] That was Martinez.

[2:41:21] So I know this is a question-and-answer portion.

[2:41:23] So a question and then I hope the answer is no for you guys.

[2:41:27] Raise your hand if you had a car ever stolen.

[2:41:37] So, back in January, a car of mine was stolen, and I talked to Mr. Olieven and several other officers.

[2:41:45] And it wasn't even found by PD, it was found by State Patrol, that you pull, you pay up and springs.

[2:41:51] Completely gutted, and then it went to some toying garden and they asked if I wanted a back.

[2:41:56] Yeah,

[2:41:58] yeah, I wonder back when it's completely gutted, no engine, no nothing, no tires.

[2:42:06] So I haven't been compensated and I would love to know of those arrests that was said

[2:42:13] by the deputy chief, how many of those people were actually convicted and tried and sent

[2:42:20] to prison because the individual, that's still my vehicle, I have her on camera, God bless

[2:42:26] her.

[2:42:29] She was arrested, but then, oh my God, the DA threw it out because of not enough evidence.

[2:42:38] And my vehicle wasn't stolen because I had a running or anything.

[2:42:41] I said, I'll have my keys. I still have the title. It was stolen because somebody she called had a trailer.

[2:42:50] And on camera, it took about 15 minutes to hook it up to the trailer.

[2:42:52] He busted the passenger window because he wasn't smart to open in another way all on camera

[2:43:01] I have the footage. I'll send it to you guys if you want it

[2:43:05] And then he was interviewed by the DA or somebody in the DA's office and

[2:43:10] Guess what he walked free

[2:43:13] Completely on camera broad daylight. It was a bit after 2 p.m. When I wasn't home and

[2:43:20] And nothing happened to him.

[2:43:22] They know his name but I was never informed on who this knucklehead is.

[2:43:26] So guess what?

[2:43:28] None of the ALPR cameras caught him.

[2:43:31] And I figured out his license plate before PD when they had the video before I did.

[2:43:36] I did my own investigation detective work.

[2:43:41] And one of the officers said, good job on the license plate.

[2:43:47] So I have no clue who this individual is.

[2:43:49] I know who the neighbor is.

[2:43:50] but I haven't spoken to her, so I would love to know the stats of the arrest, whatever

[2:43:59] number that was, on how many of those ones were actually convicted, and was it the first

[2:44:03] time still and get second, third, 20th time, what have you?

[2:44:09] And how you guys just passed that other one, why don't we pass an ordinance that people

[2:44:14] people who get their car stolen, find the person who got a stolen, make sense.

[2:44:19] No, it doesn't, being sarcastic.

[2:44:22] So both this down, and it does have the ALPR in it, in the attachments.

[2:44:27] You can't BS somebody that knows this stuff.

[2:44:30] I'm sorry to say that it was a bunch of BS up here, and I know I can't say those words, but I could say the letters.

[2:44:37] This is a bunch of malarkey, and Mr. President, I hope after R2 we could take a 10 minute recess,

[2:44:44] That's because I know R3 is going to be pretty happy with the people behind me.

[2:44:47] Thank you, Mr. President.

[2:44:49] Senator Romales, wishing to speak against this ordinance.

[2:44:53] See, come on down.

[2:45:07] Hello.

[2:45:11] My name is Mary Salopas. In this ordinance, as it's been stated before already, they have said that there's something about ALPR written in the ordinance. There is a clause in this ordinance that we have to continue using these ALPR cameras. That is why I'm speaking out against this particular ordinance. We need to have more conversations around how we're promoting these ALPRs within our community. There are way too many unanswered questions.

[2:45:40] There's information that's been shared by Mayor Graham herself who said that we don't

[2:45:45] share this data on the Genotech website itself.

[2:45:48] It does say that we have access to certain data that through the NCIS, just the National

[2:45:54] Criminal Information Center.

[2:45:59] So I'm wondering how that works both ways.

[2:46:02] Do we reach out to them?

[2:46:04] Do we get information from them?

[2:46:06] Can they get information from us?

[2:46:08] These are connected to those centers, this data is all connected somehow.

[2:46:13] We have to answer questions, we need to table this, honestly, and we need to have an actual conversation that promotes both sides of the story.

[2:46:21] We've heard from experts on one side of the story, who from the public police department, I understand that they are understaffed, and that was Mr. Gomez's statement earlier, I get that, I completely understand that.

[2:46:37] But we need to have these questions asked.

[2:46:40] We have a whole list of questions that have been sent to y'all.

[2:46:43] I think that it's time for the actual community to have a conversation about it.

[2:46:48] Not just here from one side, it's important.

[2:46:51] So please, I recommend tabling this so we can have those conversations before we start moving forward on these.

[2:46:57] Thank you.

[2:46:58] Thank you.

[2:47:02] Is there anyone else wishing to speak against this ordinance?

[2:47:05] Sure, come on down.

[2:47:33] Is this my, my name is ZZJ and I've been here before.

[2:47:38] The question about this bill is not that we're injecting to having the police department get the funds that they need.

[2:47:47] I mean, I'm all for subsidizing and making sure my police department has the equipment and stuff that they need.

[2:47:54] But when you sneak in stuff in a bill, just like the big, beautiful bill, you know, you sneak it in, and then it, you fund it.

[2:48:08] And without the community having any say so of it, if you take that part out of the bill, then I don't think there's any objection to this bill for the police department.

[2:48:20] But when you're sneaking in technology that we don't have any control over, we don't know what the upgrades will be in the future.

[2:48:28] We have no protection against our data, and you have no safeguards in place.

[2:48:35] Then I think it needs to be tabled the bill until you take that portion out.

[2:48:40] I'm for the police department having money, I'm for them having tools.

[2:48:47] And I understand that there are some benefits to having some surveillance, but the data part of this situation is what we're concerned about.

[2:48:58] And you guys can't promise that this is going to not come to bite us in the butt.

[2:49:06] And I know that there's a case up in Boulder where they're arguing against this.

[2:49:10] And I know that in other places, they're saying that it violates the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution.

[2:49:19] So, we're playing with a little bit of fire here, and I think that you, as citizens that protect us,

[2:49:30] should at least table this bill for a relook at and maybe a rewording because I don't think

[2:49:39] that anybody in this audience doesn't want our police department to function.

[2:49:46] They just are worried about the data and the consequences.

[2:49:49] And then who will be responsible?

[2:49:51] Will you be responsible for my data being misused and I can sue all of you?

[2:49:56] Because that's what it amounts to are you going to take the

[2:50:00] We're not going to say that the police department is not going to misuse, mishandle. So those are the things that this whole audience or part of this audience is worried about, is how are we going to be protected? And so I appreciate your time. Thank you, council members. I have listened to everything you said and I'm weighing the pros and cons, but I do feel like to blatantly surveillance

[2:50:29] It's a community just because you can, doesn't mean it's right, doesn't mean that it should

[2:50:37] be done, and especially when you can't secure any updates.

[2:50:46] I mean, who's to say in five years that you're not going to be able to see into my car because

[2:50:50] you're going to get a nice little update because the company can update it.

[2:50:54] You know, who's to say that you're not going to track down, you know, there's all kinds

[2:50:58] There's a possibility, and I just think that you don't have enough information in this bill that has that portion in should not pass.

[2:51:09] Thank you for your time.

[2:51:10] Thank you.

[2:51:11] All right, anyone else wishing to speak against this ordinance?

[2:51:20] Okay, seeing none, the hearings closed, is there, okay, come on down.

[2:51:31] I just wanted to say that it would be-

[2:51:33] Can you give me the name, please?

[2:51:34] I'm sorry, Leonora Bartoli, I just want to say with all the information that has come

[2:51:41] out and so many people don't know how these cameras work, the legality of it, what's

[2:51:49] in the contract, what's not in the contract, there's a lot to be learned, so please postpone

[2:51:57] it, like Councilmember Gomez was saying, and let's all learn about this topic.

[2:52:06] And even the police chief said that we need to have a discussion.

[2:52:10] So let's give it as much time as we can to understand the topic.

[2:52:17] Thank you.

[2:52:18] Sir, come on down.

[2:52:30] Hit that button there for your mic.

[2:52:32] So on right there?

[2:52:32] Yeah, you're good.

[2:52:33] My name is Doug McGinnity.

[2:52:34] I'm a recent, well, there's hired a military intelligence

[2:52:39] warrant officer, 35 years in the Army, working in signals

[2:52:44] intelligence.

[2:52:46] And I'll tell you,

[2:52:49] in my experience, if information exists,

[2:52:54] it will be used, and it will be abused.

[2:53:00] My job was collecting information.

[2:53:04] My job was watching other foreign governments

[2:53:07] collect information and finding out what they do with it.

[2:53:12] The people here are right, this information is dangerous, we don't know how it's going

[2:53:21] to be used in the future, we're going to see it collected and aggregated and dissected.

[2:53:29] I understand that I just found out through the conversations the people here while I appreciate

[2:53:35] the intent of the ordinance, if this really is in there that we have mandated requirements

[2:53:43] to continue to use surveillance cameras, such as flock in this community, that eventually,

[2:53:51] like we see in the media, somebody is going to be unjustly prosecuted for something they

[2:53:58] did not do because of wrongful use of the information and the AI tools are being used to analyze

[2:54:04] information. It's going to happen and we can either choose to be part of it or choose

[2:54:10] to not be part of it and perhaps there will be safeguards in the future that say,

[2:54:15] okay, we now can find ways to not use this information incorrectly and protect the rights

[2:54:21] to people, but it ain't there now. It's the Wild West when it comes to AI analysis, when

[2:54:27] it comes to the aggregation of data, and who we have requirements and restrictions in it,

[2:54:33] Who is going to be able to use it and see it?

[2:54:37] Who is seeing the data of public citizens and what they are doing on a database based on these collection?

[2:54:47] What are their qualifications to see this data?

[2:54:50] What are they assigned to make sure it stays private?

[2:54:55] So we strayed far from the initial conversation and into something that is really important.

[2:55:00] There's an important here that this is dangerous data, and it will be abused at some point in the future, simply because it exists. So, thank you for your time. I just want to say something.

[2:55:16] Is there anybody else wishing to speak against the pardon? Saying none, the hearings closed. Is there a motion to approve? Councillor Gomez, is there a second? Councillor Dante, any questions? Councillor Riz Gomez.

[2:55:32] Mr. President, I would like to move that we postpone a vote on this until our meeting

[2:55:42] on September 14th, once we've been able to have a work session on the specifics of

[2:55:48] this particular ordinance with its use of ARPR, that work session is scheduled for September

[2:55:53] 8th.

[2:55:54] Okay.

[2:55:55] We have a motion to postpone until September 14th.

[2:55:58] Is there a second?

[2:55:59] Second. Second by Councillor Gomez. Any questions?

[2:56:05] Councillor Dante.

[2:56:08] Let's call for the vote.

[2:56:17] Passes six to one.

[2:56:19] Mr. Clerk, we go to item

[2:56:26] R2, an ordinance authorizing the disposition by donation of certain

[2:56:32] surplus personnel property of the Pueblo of Pueblo, a Colorado municipal corporation to the

[2:56:38] City of Chihuahua, State of Chihuahua, of the United Mexican States, introduced August 10th, 2026 by Councilor Selina Ruiz-Gomas.

[2:56:46] Thank you, Mr. Clerk, we have a staff report.

[2:56:49] Yes, thank you, good evening, President Euliff, members of Council, mayor Graham and staff.

[2:56:55] This is not an LPR ordinance, this is to donate stuff to Chihuahua PD, don't want to clarify that.

[2:57:00] But this is more than authorizing the donation of surplus pouches and lose the fastener stock

[2:57:08] no longer needed by our police department to the 12th police department in Mexico.

[2:57:13] The property consists of 112 fabric pouches, such as handcuffed pouches, magazine pouches,

[2:57:19] flashlight pouches, etc. that attach to the outer vest carriers of our officers to wear.

[2:57:24] The property also includes the elastic loops on to which our pouches are mounted.

[2:57:28] to all the Mexico is one of our sisters cities and we have made previous donations to

[2:57:32] Chvala PD in the past. This concludes my staff report. I'm available for any questions.

[2:57:36] Thank you. Thank you for that report. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone here wishing

[2:57:41] to speak in favor of this ordinance? Saying none. Is there anyone here wishing to speak

[2:57:46] against this ordinance?

[2:57:49] Saying none, the hearings closed. Is there a motion to approve?

[2:57:58] Councillor

[2:58:00] Call for the vote.

[2:58:10] Passes 7-0.

[2:58:12] Mr. Clerk, item R-3.

[2:58:16] Item R-3, an ordinance approval in an economic development agreement between the City of Pueblo and Colorado Municipal Corporation and Pueblo's steamworks doing business as Southern Colorado Science Center, doing business Leonardo da Vinci Museum of North America, a Colorado non-profit corporation and authorizing the mayor to execute the same establishing project number ED-2602.

[2:58:37] 6.02, the Anardo DaVinci Museum in budgeting and appropriating $885,000 from the unencumbered fund balance of the 1992 to 2031 sales and use tax capital improvement project.

[2:58:51] Fund to project ED 2602, the Anardo DaVinci Museum, introduced August 10th, 2026 by Councillor Salina Ruiz Gomez.

[2:59:00] Yes. Thank you, Mr. Clark. We have a staff report.

[2:59:03] Yes, thank you. President A. Liff, members of Council, Madam Mayor. I'm going to present as a staff report.

[2:59:09] I have created a PowerPoint presentation if I can get that up on the screen.

[2:59:25] So I wanted to go into a little bit more detail on the staff report.

[2:59:29] This is an ordinance that's going to approve an agreement between the city and

[2:59:32] from the Leonardo da Vinci Museum for an economic incentive agreement.

[2:59:38] This incentive agreement is for an amount of $885,000.

[2:59:44] The money is going to be paid pursuant to section 14485.5A1 of the Pueblo Municipal Code.

[2:59:53] The museum will have until February 25th, 2028 to spend the funds.

[2:59:58] Any...

[3:00:00] Unspent funds as of that date will be repaid to the city. The term of the agreement is for seven years. In return for that, the museum has certain obligations. And these are the obligations under the agreement. Essentially they're going to have to produce the seam exhibits and interactive learning experiences. They have committed to being open to the public year round seven days a week, except for these holidays.

[3:00:29] So they're going to be open all the time for the public and the community.

[3:00:34] They're going to have to continuously maintain their partnership with the artisans of Florence.

[3:00:40] They're going to have to provide educational programming on Fridays and on weekends.

[3:00:45] They're going to operate an on-site cafe or coffee shop.

[3:00:49] They're going to operate an on-site gift shop and they're going to commit to aggressively marketing and

[3:00:55] advertising the museum to out of town visitors and they're not only going to advertise the museum

[3:01:02] but they're going to advertise to visit Pueblo, the Riverwalk, neighboring attractions, restaurants,

[3:01:07] events, and hotels.

[3:01:15] So we have amended the agreement so that City Council can see under section

[3:01:25] of the code in which we have gone under for this agreement as under place making.

[3:01:35] So this agreement fits under place making as defined under the code.

[3:01:41] Under place making, it is tied to certain things that they have to do.

[3:01:48] It's tied to capital improvement.

[3:01:49] So under section 4.01 of the agreement, the DaVinci Museum would have to use the money to

[3:01:57] do capital improvements, renovations, remodeling fixtures to the facility.

[3:02:03] So the facility is the convention center, the convention center is owned by Urban Renewal.

[3:02:09] They have a lease with Urban Renewal for the interior of that space.

[3:02:14] The outdoor area, the patio area is owned by the city.

[3:02:18] They have a lease with the city for that space.

[3:02:22] The City Council approved that lease last year, and so these are what the funds are going

[3:02:30] to be used for.

[3:02:36] They have provided an estimated budget.

[3:02:39] This estimated budget was provided last week, and I meant to provide this to City Council

[3:02:46] So in for the executive session, I look tonight that was not provided to City Council and I apologize for that, but this estimated budget is what they provided to me.

[3:02:57] This is how they break down the $885,000.

[3:03:00] This is estimated, and they are here tonight, so I'm sure they're happy to answer any questions about that.

[3:03:07] But this is how they're breaking down that $885,000.

[3:03:12] So

[3:03:18] as I talked about under the code, we have placemaking.

[3:03:24] Placemaking is defined under our code as a process and act of creating high quality public spaces and amenities that encourage people to want to live, work, play, and learn in the city, community or region.

[3:03:38] So DaVinci clearly falls within placemaking.

[3:03:41] It is an amenity in the city that is going to encourage people want to live, work, and play, and learn within the community and region.

[3:03:50] And so it fits within that, but place making doesn't stand alone within our code.

[3:03:55] It is tied to our special categories, which is 14485.5.

[3:04:02] So under this special categories is how we tie place making into our code.

[3:04:07] and this is where we come to the acquisition of land and construction of so-called shell buildings or acquisition

[3:04:14] remodeling and renovation of existing buildings for the purpose of or making such buildings available for place making.

[3:04:23] And so this is the section under which the DaVinci Museum qualifies for our half-cent sales tax.

[3:04:32] However, this is not the only criteria under which the DaVinci Museum qualifies.

[3:04:40] Under our code, the DaVinci Museum also qualifies as a regional tourism project.

[3:04:47] Under our code, a regional tourism project is defined and is defined as a primary job.

[3:04:54] So it stands alone as a primary job, as a primary

[3:05:00] Any job, the person or the entity that receives those funds can use those funds for whatever it wants to use those funds for unless it is bound to use those funds by contract on certain things. And the city has, in the past, constricted the use of those funds for certain things under our contracts. But typically, they can use them for general operating, marketing, however they want to do that. So they do qualify under the regional tourism act.

[3:05:31] Now, if you remember, I don't know, you folks weren't on the City Council at the time,

[3:05:38] but in 2011, the city applied for state increment financing or a state increment tax revenue

[3:05:45] from the state through the regional tourism project under state statute.

[3:05:50] And in order to do that, the city had to demonstrate that it had a project that met all of this criteria.

[3:05:56] And the project had to be extraordinary and unique in nature.

[3:06:01] It had to contribute significantly to the economic development and tourism in the state,

[3:06:07] and the community where it was located.

[3:06:10] It had to reasonably anticipate it to result in a substantial increase in out-of-state tourism.

[3:06:16] A significant portion of the sales tax revenue generated by the project had to be anticipated to be attributable to transactions with

[3:06:25] non-residents of the regional tourism zone and they had to provide reliable economic data.

[3:06:34] And so demonstrating these things.

[3:06:36] And so at that time, when we were going through this process, it was a professional bull

[3:06:41] riders that was the project that the city partnered with in order to get the Regional Tourism

[3:06:50] Act incremental tax revenue.

[3:06:53] And so when in 2024, when the professional bull riders decided to leave the city of

[3:07:01] Pueblo, the city needed a new partner.

[3:07:05] And so the city went out and sent out an RFP and we invited people to come in and apply

[3:07:11] to be our new partner and to take over that space in the Convention Center.

[3:07:16] The DaVinci Museum was one of the entities that applied for that.

[3:07:22] And as part of that, the city looked at all of the people that applied, and the DaVinci Museum was determined to meet the criteria the best.

[3:07:31] And so DaVinci partnered with the city, and we went to the state, and we went to Oedit, and we partnered with PEDCO, and with Urban Renewal, and we went to Oedit, and we asked them for permission to allow us to substitute DaVinci for

[3:07:49] the bull riders association and that's important because it allowed the city to be compliant

[3:07:56] and still fulfill all of the requirements that it had under the Regional Tourism Act

[3:08:02] because we still have obligations under that act to spend that money within the Regional

[3:08:08] Tourism District and so that allowed us to do that.

[3:08:14] So, they came in and they partnered with us in February of 2025, Oedit, and the Office

[3:08:21] of Economic Development came in and said, yes, you qualify, they met all of the criteria.

[3:08:32] And so they essentially blessed that substitution, and they said, yes, DaVinci can come in and

[3:08:40] be your substitute.

[3:08:42] And so just so you know, I won't put it out there, this is the definition of primary

[3:08:47] job under our code, and it includes under sub-paragraph B, that employment resulting from a

[3:08:54] regional tourism project qualifies as a primary job.

[3:09:04] When I was going through and I was preparing for tonight, I went back through and I looked

[3:09:10] at some of the legislative history.

[3:09:12] It's also important to note that this changed this economic development criteria.

[3:09:20] When this was added, it was added in 2012.

[3:09:26] This criteria that primary job means Regional Tourism Act.

[3:09:32] And City Council changed that in anticipation of getting the state increment tax funding.

[3:09:39] and we did that because we wanted the ability to get that tax funding and we wanted to have the flexibility to use that.

[3:09:51] And the purpose of that was not so much to tie it with jobs but because the City Council recognized that tourism was going to bring it outside.

[3:10:00] So, people coming in from outside of the community, spending their money here, so new money in the community, and it was going to increase our tax base.

[3:10:12] And so when they did that change, that ordinance specifically provided that they were making that change so that the criteria ordinance could be flexible, and it could account for the realities of economic development in the 21st century. And that it could be codified.

[3:10:31] right so that the public could reference it and those engaged in the economic developments

[3:10:35] could reference it.

[3:10:37] And so I think it's important because we've talked a lot about the criteria ordinance

[3:10:41] and the changing of it.

[3:10:42] But back in 2012, all these same conversations were had and at the time, City Council wanted

[3:10:49] the flexibility of having that and they recognized the flexibility that was needed.

[3:10:54] And the stated purpose of it was then was to codify the existing criteria and to add new

[3:11:00] provisions which granted City Council additional flexibility and clarify the criteria.

[3:11:09] So that is the staff report tonight.

[3:11:13] And just in conclusion, again, the museum qualifies for the House and Sales Tax revenues under

[3:11:19] multiple provisions of the criteria ordinance, not only under the special categories, which

[3:11:25] which is 14485.1A1, which is the place making, but also under the regional tourism act.

[3:11:36] But in this particular case, we have narrowly tailored it under the place making.

[3:11:42] We have put safeguards in place.

[3:11:45] We have put in there specifically what they can spend the money on.

[3:11:48] They have provided a budget which you have been presented with tonight and so

[3:11:56] You have the information available and I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have

[3:12:02] Thank you for that report before I open the public hearing what I'd like to ask is a question of the people in the audience

[3:12:10] By a raise of hands how many people are planning on speaking either for or against this

[3:12:17] Mr. Clerk, we'll limit testimony to three minutes.

[3:12:24] I just asked that everybody has the right to speak.

[3:12:29] If you hear somebody saying the same old thing over and

[3:12:34] over again, please be cognizant of that.

[3:12:40] So I'm going to open this hearing.

[3:12:41] This is a public hearing.

[3:12:42] Is there anyone here wishing to speak in favor of this ordinance?

[3:12:45] You guys can line up on the steps there and start talking.

[3:12:58] We can only have one person at a time.

[3:13:02] So

[3:13:08] please state your name and-

[3:13:10] I'm David Leidel, I'm the attorney for the Adventure Museum of North America.

[3:13:18] Thank you for the opportunity.

[3:13:21] I'm David Leidel, I'm the attorney for the Adventure Museum of North America.

[3:13:26] Thank you, Mr. President, members of council.

[3:13:29] And Mayor, Ms. Sykes did a great job of going back and reviewing the history of how all this came about.

[3:13:36] A couple of things, one comment I would mention as to the impact of the RTA grant to Pueblo.

[3:13:47] It was, it is $35.7 million, about $25 million of that had been paid to date.

[3:13:55] One of the things part of the RTA was it allowed the urban renewal to sell bonds.

[3:14:04] Those bonds were built used to build the convention center and the area where the Pueblo

[3:14:09] bull riders university was located until 2024.

[3:14:15] In 2012 and 2013, when all of that was being negotiated, I was representing another client

[3:14:23] And I was working with Urban Renewal, and we had a conversation because my other client needed

[3:14:29] also look at this and approve it.

[3:14:31] And I was speaking to the chairperson of Urban Renewal and said, well, you know, the agreement

[3:14:39] isn't great.

[3:14:41] He was also an attorney and he said, David, you have to understand, the bullwriters is now owned

[3:14:46] by a bunch of investment people out of New York.

[3:14:50] And they said, it's either this agreement or it's no agreement.

[3:14:54] Without the bull riders, there would have been no RTA money.

[3:14:58] There would have been no convention center.

[3:15:00] There wouldn't be the opportunity today to proceed and take what was an OK deal with a much better deal with DaVinci. The bonds still have to be paid. When PBR pulled out, there was a concern at Urban Renewal, and by others that what's the Colorado Development Commission going to say? Because this was the key point. Without it, we would never have received the RTA resolution and the agreement.

[3:15:29] And so then the city did go out and put out an RFP to get another partner.

[3:15:36] The city, Urban and Newell, went to the Economic Development Commission and

[3:15:42] they agreed to let a substitute, Da Vinci, as this key element.

[3:15:48] Now Da Vinci has raised close to $2 million and

[3:15:52] all of those monies have been going into refurbishing and

[3:15:57] renovating this facility, a facility which is owned by the public.

[3:16:02] So this isn't a private building, this is a public building owned by Urban Renewal.

[3:16:07] So the city gets all the benefit of this improvement and this project.

[3:16:12] Thank you.

[3:16:14] Is there anyone else wishing to speak in favor of this ordinance?

[3:16:24] Thank you.

[3:16:26] I'm Joe Arrigo, the founder and director of the Leonardo da Vinci Museum of North America.

[3:16:33] just to review just a little bit that the Leonardo da Vinci Museum opened its doors on June 12th,

[3:16:45] 2026 at 310 Central Maine after being accepted by the Colorado Economic Development Commission

[3:16:52] as a replacement for the Purple Bull Riders University.

[3:16:56] The PBR University had been an essential element for meeting the criteria of the Colorado

[3:17:02] economic development commission for being a regional tourism act reward. The museum has become a destination.

[3:17:14] Since opening we have become a destination for thousands of visitors with nearly half of them

[3:17:20] arriving from out of Pueblo. We are attracting tourists seven days a week. Visitors from 39

[3:17:29] United States plus international guests from Canada, Mexico, Europe, and the Middle East.

[3:17:36] I personally work in the museum, and I can tell you a number of stories, but I won't

[3:17:40] for too much time, but I'll tell you one.

[3:17:42] I was there this weekend, and I'm greeting a set of grandparents from Bon Carbo, and those

[3:17:49] of us that live here know that Bon Carbo was one of the coal mining towns near Trinidad.

[3:17:54] dead. The grandparents are coming because the grandfather has a birthday. The children

[3:18:00] and the grandchildren are coming from Denver and they have chosen the Da Vinci Museum

[3:18:05] to meet in celebration of the grandfather's birthday and then they were going to go

[3:18:10] have lunch together. This is the kind of thing the stories we're hearing anecdotally from

[3:18:16] people coming from Denver, from Colorado Springs, from care centers and Colorado Springs

[3:18:24] are coming in groups. So,

[3:18:29] the attendance numbers that we had given to Council, beyond those

[3:18:34] attendance numbers, our SCREAM Education Center Science Technology Engineering Art and

[3:18:41] Math Center, has served 24 young, 2400 young visitors, numerous classes, camps, and special

[3:18:49] events. Having said all of this, I'd like to tell you why I believe this

[3:18:55] internationally recognized museum science center is important for our

[3:19:01] community. Students passing through our science center are learning unique

[3:19:08] skills, skills of critical thinking and problem solving. Our mission is to ignite

[3:19:15] That curiosity, encourage exploration and inspire innovation that will lead to unique and creative outcomes.

[3:19:25] These students will be our future leaders and entrepreneurs.

[3:19:29] Thank you.

[3:19:33] Thank you.

[3:19:34] Is there anyone else wishing to speak and thank you?

[3:19:36] Good

[3:19:50] evening, Council. Mr. President, Madam Mayor, Steve Naraki, former City Council member for eight years, and I take full

[3:20:00] Thank you for your responsibility for this whole thing.

[3:20:04] Two of our elected officials from public and one of the Democrats who worked together across the aisle in the state legislature. Keeps word perter, and Angela Heron. They were the ones that were able to sponsor additional RTA projects that we could get in southern Colorado. The first original three all went to Denver.

[3:20:28] So, you could thank those folks for even making it available to come to public, but it could

[3:20:33] only come to public if we had skin in the game and I can assure you that the City Council

[3:20:38] at that time had no more extra money than what you have right now.

[3:20:42] So, the only source of revenue that we had on hand was the half-cent sales tax.

[3:20:49] Our City Council at that time in their wisdom amended the ordinance, the half-cent sales

[3:20:57] tax ordinance, and included tourism as being a primary job developer.

[3:21:02] In 2025, $22.2 billion was generated in the state of Colorado because of tourism.

[3:21:12] If that's not something contributing to the income of our state and primary jobs, I don't know what it is.

[3:21:20] Anyhow, I take full responsibility that City Council amended it to allow tourism.

[3:21:27] Certainly, the DaVinci Museum falls within that criteria, and the key thing that the Office of Economic Development International Trade was that it was unique.

[3:21:37] That was one of the key things.

[3:21:39] I'll tell you right up front, we used the PBR, and they used us.

[3:21:44] We never could have gotten that project down here if it hadn't been for the PBR.

[3:21:49] But then the PBR, in my opinion, never fell through with what they said they would make the commitment to the community.

[3:21:56] So the best thing that ever happened in my opinion was when they audiosed from our community.

[3:22:03] And so, and I was sitting on Ermery, no, we had nothing else to put in that.

[3:22:07] I went to the Convention Center, they had nothing that they had any ideas for.

[3:22:13] And so, but actually our mayor was the one that was insistent that we had a project and it was the DaVinci Museum.

[3:22:19] That would be this mayor right here, so it's your fault, too.

[3:22:24] And so anyhow, the precedent has been set.

[3:22:28] We were able to get $14.000 million from half-centred cell stacks that was used to match the $37.36 million from the RTA at the state level from the Office of Economic Development International Trade.

[3:22:42] So former council member to new council members, it's in your hands, you have the legal ability to make a decision one way or another, thank you.

[3:22:57] Good

[3:23:04] evening, Mayor Graham, City Council members, President Alif, my name is Christina Trujillo, and I'm here tonight to express my support for place making as an eligible use of economic development funding here in Pueblo.

[3:23:17] Creating good paying jobs is incredibly important and should continue to be a priority, but economic development can take many forms.

[3:23:26] A strong local economy also depends on creating a community where people want to visit, live, spend money, open businesses, and invest.

[3:23:37] This is why I believe place making belongs in our economic development strategy.

[3:23:42] This year, our nation celebrated its 250th anniversary, Colorado celebrated its 150th anniversary

[3:23:51] of statehood.

[3:23:52] These once in a generation milestones gave Pablo an incredible opportunity to showcase

[3:23:58] our community, our history, and our identity.

[3:24:01] But I do not believe we should look at this as an opportunity for just one year.

[3:24:06] We should use this moment as a starting point for something much bigger.

[3:24:12] The investments we make in place making today can create destinations and

[3:24:17] experiences that continue bringing people to public for years to come.

[3:24:23] We already have something many communities spend years trying to create an authentic identity.

[3:24:30] We are the still city.

[3:24:31] We have incredible history, diverse neighborhoods, museums, arts and

[3:24:36] culture, organizations, historical sites, local businesses, and generations of stories

[3:24:42] that make Pueblo unlike anywhere else.

[3:24:45] When people come here to experience those things, we want them to stay longer, we want

[3:24:50] them to eat at our local restaurants, shop at our businesses, stay at our hotels, visit

[3:24:55] many attractions and come back again. This is Economic Act.

[3:25:00] So, as we celebrate these historic events, I think we should also ask ourselves, what do we want people to discover about Pueblo today? What will bring them back in 2027, 2030, and beyond? To me, that is what place making is about. It isn't simply about funding a project or celebrating a milestone. It's about investing in Pueblo, building upon our current identity,

[3:25:28] and creating economic opportunities that will continue

[3:25:31] for years to come.

[3:25:33] We don't need to create a new identity for Pueblo.

[3:25:36] What we need to is invest in the one

[3:25:39] that we already have.

[3:25:41] Thank you.

[3:25:51] I mean, Mark Kager, sorry.

[3:25:55] I lost my voice standing back there.

[3:25:57] Anyway, I own a gallery, the 5,000 foot square gallery

[3:26:01] in the heart of the Union Avenue District District.

[3:26:03] I represent many of the program's world class artists.

[3:26:11] And I want to tell you, you know, just like she was just saying,

[3:26:14] the arts and culture is an economic driver.

[3:26:17] And I didn't know that.

[3:26:19] A place like the DaVinci Museum is bringing people to pueblo.

[3:26:23] And it's bringing people, if they're here long enough,

[3:26:25] they come down to where my gallery is.

[3:26:27] I want to ask if any of you have been in my gallery.

[3:26:29] I've been there since 1989.

[3:26:32] OK, one of you.

[3:26:33] So the arts and culture is pretty hidden in this town and it needs to be known and the museum

[3:26:40] is going to help bring that in. It's going to bring more people from out of town because it's

[3:26:45] a classy place. So I really urge you to vote for this. I do want to say artists are primary jobs.

[3:26:53] They manufacture an export of product and I've been collecting that sales tax for this economic

[3:27:00] with development since way before 89.

[3:27:03] I've been in the gallery business since for 50 years.

[3:27:06] So I urge you to show what public class has

[3:27:11] and learn about the culture here.

[3:27:13] If you haven't been to my gallery,

[3:27:14] go to the galleries in town.

[3:27:16] Public was become a real arts community

[3:27:18] and that's pretty unknown right now.

[3:27:21] But we've got much more than Denver Boulder

[3:27:23] Colorado Springs here in Santa Fe and Tows.

[3:27:27] We really have something here that needs to be shown.

[3:27:30] So please fund this museum, thank you.

[3:27:44] I'm Marlene Stiles, I'm president of the nonprofit, the I will projects that's worked

[3:27:49] to bring steam education to our comparable community for 12 years now.

[3:27:54] We very much support the adventure museum and what they're doing to bring educational

[3:27:59] opportunities to our city.

[3:28:02] And the bottom line is it's very difficult to keep the lights on when you have a large

[3:28:07] organization and a big building and a staff. I wanted to point out a couple of statistics.

[3:28:13] The American Alliance of Museums and Giving USA, which is an annual report on American

[3:28:19] philanthropy, reports that only 6 to 10% of museums operating costs actually come from admissions.

[3:28:27] We have a lot of people coming in, but we cannot rely just on people coming to the doors to

[3:28:32] to pay for those overhead operating costs.

[3:28:35] Also, there have been a lot of wonderful, generous donations from our community,

[3:28:41] but against, according to the same statistics, only 30% are really,

[3:28:46] donations really cover operating costs.

[3:28:49] So this leaves a 60% deficit.

[3:28:51] And that's why the museum is coming to you asking for this amount.

[3:28:56] It is really an investment in the future because it will bring tourist dollars in.

[3:29:01] It will bring new people into the community.

[3:29:03] It will support our educational system.

[3:29:06] And we have already tapped out property taxes and the sales tax.

[3:29:10] I don't think we can go any more.

[3:29:12] So looking at the tourist dollar is another way that this will eventually pay back what we are putting into it.

[3:29:18] And I hope you just support it and vote for this.

[3:29:20] Thank you.

[3:29:21] Thank you.

[3:29:21] Hi,

[3:29:30] my name is Susie Jaden, councilmembers and mayor.

[3:29:35] I went to the DaVinci Museum and it was fabulous.

[3:29:40] I spent so much time there.

[3:29:42] I could have spent all day there.

[3:29:44] It was fabulous.

[3:29:46] The people there were kind.

[3:29:48] They spent time.

[3:29:49] They talked about, I went with Marlene.

[3:29:52] They spent time with us.

[3:29:54] They talked about every single item there.

[3:29:57] they demonstrated.

[3:30:00] We had fun shooting airplanes, but you know, it was just a marvelous educational fun place. I'm going to go again. I'm taking my son and bringing him from Colorado Springs. He loves his name is Leonard. I named him after Leonardo. So, you know, I just tell you that this place is great. I know everybody else had statistics, but I just want you to know how fun it was.

[3:30:29] I am going to go there again and again because they're going to bring in new stuff.

[3:30:35] And who wants to not see new stuff from Da Vinci?

[3:30:39] Thank you.

[3:30:50] Good evening.

[3:30:51] My name is Jay Rosenberg.

[3:30:53] I moved to Pueblo a little over six years ago.

[3:30:56] And I can't tell you how much Pueblo has changed my life for the better.

[3:31:02] And when people come and visit me, I do this little tour of Pueblo to show them why.

[3:31:07] I could always ask why Pablo, so I show them around, and I can tell you right now, five families have moved to Pablo and bought homes because of what I've shown them and how much I've fallen in love with Pablo.

[3:31:19] And I have four more families that are going to move here once they can sell their houses from where they're moving, from all over the United States.

[3:31:26] It's personally, I've lived in multiple places.

[3:31:31] Some consider the best places in the world, I lived in Switzerland, I lived in Denmark, lived in Austin, Texas, I lived in Connecticut.

[3:31:39] I've never lived in a community as wonderful as Probleau.

[3:31:47] I travel a lot, I had 10 kids, 11 grandkids.

[3:31:52] When I travel, we go all over, I've been to Europe recently, multiple times, I've been all over.

[3:31:57] I can't wait to get back to Pueblo, I have to be honest.

[3:32:01] Anyway, when the DaVinci Museum opened up, I was excited to be able to volunteer.

[3:32:07] And the people I meet and who come in, and I meet them from all over, not just Pueblo.

[3:32:12] In fact, more and more, people from Colorado Springs who, you know, from what I understand,

[3:32:18] did not always have the best view of Pueblo.

[3:32:21] They come down and they go, Pueblo is amazing, we had no idea.

[3:32:24] They come in from Denver, they come in from Castle Rock,

[3:32:28] Monument, but they come in from Texas, they're coming in from New Mexico,

[3:32:32] from Wyoming, they're coming in from other countries,

[3:32:34] they're coming from the East Coast.

[3:32:36] So before I run out of time, I just was looking through the reviews,

[3:32:41] and there's hundreds of them.

[3:32:44] Every single one, five stars.

[3:32:46] Here's just a short one by a visitor.

[3:32:52] This is the most amazing museum we've ever seen,

[3:32:55] including all the museums in Europe, New York City,

[3:32:58] and Washington, D.C., where we are from.

[3:33:00] My kids have been completely engaged for three hours.

[3:33:04] This is a destination to re-exclamation points.

[3:33:08] So anybody who says that the Division Museum

[3:33:11] is not going to, what's the word gets out?

[3:33:14] Everybody who comes and visits says,

[3:33:16] not only am I coming back, I have to bring other people here

[3:33:19] and tell everybody about it.

[3:33:21] So, it's an asset to Pueblo.

[3:33:24] Pueblo itself is an amazing asset.

[3:33:26] It brought me here.

[3:33:27] It's brought other people here as a result.

[3:33:30] And only good can come from it.

[3:33:32] Thank you for my time.

[3:33:44] My name is Gina Walker.

[3:33:45] I work at the DaVinci Museum.

[3:33:47] And I work primarily up front in the gift shop

[3:33:52] and where the admissions are.

[3:33:53] So I'd like to share with you.

[3:33:54] We talk to everyone who comes in as they come in.

[3:33:58] We track where they come from.

[3:33:59] and we talked them again when they come out to see what their reactions are.

[3:34:04] And I'd like to share a few things that people say to me personally and our other co-workers.

[3:34:13] Mind-blowing. Incredible. Inspirational. Just they just don't know what to say,

[3:34:21] how much they enjoyed the museum, how much they were inspired. The other thing that I hear all

[3:34:27] All the time is from people who come in, not only from out of town, but from all over

[3:34:33] the United States, but from people actually who live fairly near to Pueblo, they come

[3:34:39] and they say, we had no idea that all this was here.

[3:34:44] They've never walked through the walk.

[3:34:46] They haven't been downtown.

[3:34:48] They come because of the museum.

[3:34:50] They come here and then all of a sudden they discover, well, there's all of this.

[3:34:54] And they go and they walk the river walk they eat at restaurants they shop in the

[3:35:00] In shops, they stay in extra night at the hotels. They just talk about that we had a completely different impression of what Pueblo was. That impression is changing for the better. They want to come back, they want to bring their friends, they want to tell their friends, their relatives, bring their kids, and they do. We've hardly been open two months and we're seeing in person repeat business.

[3:35:29] from people who live in Pueblo, bringing their friends,

[3:35:33] their out-of-town guests, their relatives.

[3:35:38] It is a driver, it's making Pueblo a destination.

[3:35:43] Kids are learning, kids I was just surprised to see

[3:35:51] teenagers engaged actively, without looking at their phones.

[3:35:56] How often do you see that?

[3:35:57] That phone during the pocket, the teenagers are really excited about what they're doing, the adults.

[3:36:05] We get a lot of groups of multi-generational families, grandparents, parents, children.

[3:36:14] How many places can you go where everyone in each of those groups has something to do that

[3:36:19] interests them and inspires them?

[3:36:23] I was there when that birthday boy who happened to be 97 that Joe talked about and his family

[3:36:33] came and they spent hours there and every one of them loved it, he loved it.

[3:36:39] It's just a real resource, it's, and David, David.

[3:36:45] Thank you.

[3:36:46] It's changing Pueblo.

[3:36:47] Thank you.

[3:36:48] Hi,

[3:36:58] my name is Eleonara Bartoli, and first of all, I hope you all visited the museum

[3:37:05] and you realized how fun it is, like everybody's saying, and fun for all ages.

[3:37:12] And I want to thank you for making the case that this is a legal ordinance or whatever, as

[3:37:26] I was supposed to do a lot of stuff that was said on Facebook and other places.

[3:37:31] So thank you and thank you the mayor for supporting this.

[3:37:35] And anyway, it was wonderful to go there.

[3:37:40] I also went on the first day, supposed to stay there for an hour and a half.

[3:37:44] But I stayed for three hours and

[3:37:47] still closing time and I'm definitely planning to go back for the manuscripts,

[3:37:52] which is so special because all the manuscripts are Leonardo are in bits and pieces all over the world and we have all the copies here so it will be really special.

[3:38:04] Leonardo has always been particularly important to me because I was born and raised in the area about ten miles from Vinci and he's always been my favorite Italian.

[3:38:16] and it should be the one that we have a statue to, my opinion.

[3:38:25] So please vote yes on this and help these people that are put $1.8 million that I'm

[3:38:32] bringing all these people in to visit that are putting Pueblo on the map.

[3:38:40] And I would like to ask you, maybe if you're

[3:38:44] indecided about this vote, think about 10 or 5 or 10 years

[3:38:49] from now.

[3:38:50] And if you vote yes, or if you vote no.

[3:38:54] And if you vote yes, and the Da Vinci succeeds.

[3:38:58] And if you vote yes, and the Da Vinci fails.

[3:39:01] And if you vote no, and the Da Vinci succeeds.

[3:39:04] And if you vote yes, and if you vote no,

[3:39:06] and the Davinci failed. There's only those four possibilities in the future. And if you can put

[3:39:13] yourself in the future and see what future do you want and how you want to feel about yourself

[3:39:18] and how do you want others to feel about you, please think about your yes or no and therefore

[3:39:25] possibilities. Thank you so much.

[3:39:36] I'm Joel Carpenter. I'm one of the artists and residents at the

[3:39:40] museum everything everything's been said except this one point you know I've

[3:39:48] been in problem my whole life I love problem and you know I went to college here

[3:39:52] and I stayed here and I get really tired of out-of-town comments

[3:40:00] It's about Pueblo. It's a ghetto, pew town, you know. And then people come down here, you know, they see the river walk. They go into the museum. And the common is that I get consistently in the museum is I had no idea Pueblo had such class. You know, that's what we need. We need, you know, it's part of growing up as a city. We no longer depend on the CF and I alpha beta and Rockwell.

[3:40:29] That's all you needed, the PAD, that's all you needed, that's all anybody wanted.

[3:40:33] Well, it's a new age and I think we need to keep up with that and how we do that,

[3:40:42] is we bring things like the museum in, that bring people in, tourists love that place.

[3:40:49] I'm there almost every day and people are just amazed.

[3:40:53] It's a world-class museum.

[3:40:54] you could find it in New York, London, Paris, it would fear right in and you know this is

[3:41:00] a problem. This is great for a problem. You know and I understand that you know a problem

[3:41:07] has many needs and you know I'm a social Democrat so I'm always leaning towards you know spending

[3:41:15] money on social programs but this is something that can go along with that. We need to do

[3:41:23] both things at once. We need to care for people and society and we need to present culture

[3:41:32] like this museum. So, anyway, that's all.

[3:41:37] Thank you.

[3:41:46] Hello, good evening. My name is Jean Aurego, and I do work at the museum. I'm the director

[3:41:51] of operations there. I've been there for about a year now. As has been mentioned, our museum's

[3:41:58] mission is to ignite curiosity, encourage exploration, and inspire innovation that will

[3:42:04] lead to unique and creative outcomes.

[3:42:08] The students that come into our museum of any age and right now I can tell you you're

[3:42:14] hearing we've got 98 year olds and we have six month olds.

[3:42:20] These are our future leaders and these are our entrepreneurs.

[3:42:24] We have created a space very intentionally that is a safe space for any one of any color

[3:42:34] of any creed and speaks any language that they may come into this space and feel welcomed

[3:42:41] and want to learn.

[3:42:44] This is a safe space so that the youth may become, discover what they want to become, whether

[3:42:51] Whether it is an artist, or an engineer, or a fashionista, or a physician, or an architect,

[3:42:57] or perhaps something entirely new.

[3:43:01] Their future may begin with a single moment of wonder, and all of us have experienced

[3:43:08] that.

[3:43:08] One moment in your life that will change your future.

[3:43:12] That is what this museum is intended to be.

[3:43:16] Our museum and science center exist to create moments of wonder.

[3:43:25] Museums preserve the stories of humanity's, the greatest achievements.

[3:43:30] They protect the fragile thread that connects us from the past

[3:43:34] while inspiring the innovation that shapes our future.

[3:43:39] A museum is a classroom without walls.

[3:43:43] A museum is a university without tuition.

[3:43:48] A museum is a sanctuary where curiosity is welcomed regardless of the age or background.

[3:43:54] The Alarn Leonardo da Vinci museum has shown its ability already in a very, very short period of time.

[3:44:03] It's shown its ability to impact our pueblo community that providing added tourism and

[3:44:09] and river walk activity with businesses increasing

[3:44:12] for our surrounding neighbors.

[3:44:15] Yes, we need your help.

[3:44:19] We've done what we can,

[3:44:20] and we really want to move quickly.

[3:44:23] There's a lot of impatience,

[3:44:24] where all want instant gratification,

[3:44:26] and we are working very hard to try

[3:44:30] to create the best space that is safe.

[3:44:35] And we already are needing to expand

[3:44:37] because we have so many students.

[3:44:38] And I would be grateful for your support in this phase of our development.

[3:44:45] Thank you for your time.

[3:44:55] Well, good evening.

[3:44:57] I'm Barbara Vidmar, the last.

[3:45:00] Last time you saw me was February 23rd, and I'm sure you're pretty surprised that I'm here in favor of the museum. To refresh everybody's memory on February 23rd, you all voted to amend the appropriate criteria, standards, rules and regulations for the appropriation and expenditure of the monies in the half-cent sales tax fund. I'm here to tell you.

[3:45:29] that the DaVinci Museum fits well into this amended criteria.

[3:45:38] I know there's been a lot of chatter on social media.

[3:45:42] However, you are the seven people,

[3:45:46] the ones elected to make important decisions on our behalf.

[3:45:51] And you are in a position to know the relevant facts as opposed to just social chatter.

[3:45:59] And I hope you will vote accordingly.

[3:46:01] Thank you.

[3:46:14] Hi, my name is Betty Joe, I work for the city for many years.

[3:46:19] But before I came to the city, I worked for the art center.

[3:46:22] And I remember back when it was being built and being additions added on all that, if

[3:46:28] it wasn't for the contributions and the support of city council for the city of public and

[3:46:35] the county, the art center wouldn't be what it is today.

[3:46:42] Over the years, the arts had to use the money that was given to them to grow and become what it is today.

[3:46:50] That is what the devention museum is trying to do.

[3:46:55] It is offering the citizens the same thing that the arts center is offering, but in a bigger area.

[3:47:03] When I worked at the arts center, many people will say, God, I wish you had a cafe.

[3:47:08] I wish there was a place we could get sit down and have a drink, or a cup of coffee, or if they had their kids there, I could buy them a snack.

[3:47:17] But that's what this museum is asking for, is to be able to offer those saying that a

[3:47:24] amenity that is needed to keep the business downtown, and they're not going back home, hungry or thirsty.

[3:47:33] I honestly believe that the city would not be in odds on this topic if it wasn't for what the city and pet court experiencing together right now in the past pet go support at the art center.

[3:47:50] But because of the smear campaign that has, we just point it in the people who are doing this smear campaign, they're doing it for revenge and not for

[3:48:00] what's better for the better of the citizens of Pueblo.

[3:48:07] I'm asking you to please vote to give the city,

[3:48:10] to give the museum this money, because it will bring more visitors to Pueblo,

[3:48:18] put a place on the map that even Denver would be envious of us.

[3:48:24] I have people who have come from Denver and said, wow, you guys have really changed since last time I was here.

[3:48:32] Let us grow. It's time for the Good Old Boy Clubs, the old regime to move over and make

[3:48:41] room for the new generation. You guys are it. Thank you.

[3:48:54] Good evening. My name is Jeffrey Moore. I am the exhibits coordinator at the Leonardo

[3:48:59] Da Vinci Museum of North America. I like to add that. It should always be added in North

[3:49:05] America. It's in the title. We are an international museum. To reiterate a few of those stories.

[3:49:12] It is true every day I talk to people from all over the state. People who came here only to go

[3:49:19] to the museum. At that point they asked for where to go get coffee, where should we have lunch.

[3:49:27] They want to stay. One story from that is I met a man and woman who came up from Santa Fe and

[3:49:33] And they stopped here at the museum, the Leonardo da Vinci Museum of North America,

[3:49:41] just

[3:49:41] a visit.

[3:49:42] The man said, we live 45 minutes away in Colorado Springs.

[3:49:47] We are going to spend the night right here instead of driving home.

[3:49:52] A quick story, I'm like every one or not everyone, but at my age, we left Pueblo, we...

[3:50:00] Explored life we went after a dream, and a lot of us came back to Pueblo, being their family, which I am very happy to have come back and be near my family.

[3:50:10] If I had been told at any time in my life, that I was working for an international museum in Pueblo, Colorado, there's no way I would ever believe that. I am here to say that the Leonardo da Vinci Museum of North America,

[3:50:31] is one of the greatest things we have in North America,

[3:50:35] and it is right here under our nose.

[3:50:38] Thank you.

[3:50:50] Good evening, City Council.

[3:50:52] I don't work for the museum.

[3:50:55] Unlike a lot of these folks do,

[3:50:57] but I'm here to strongly support what they're doing.

[3:51:03] Could you state your name, please?

[3:51:04] Yes, I'm sorry, Bernie Zerker.

[3:51:08] It has been said that this is a world-class museum, and I just want to add a little bit

[3:51:16] of emphasis to that.

[3:51:18] There are two Leonardo da Vinci museums in Florence, Italy, one from the artisans of Florence,

[3:51:27] the main one, and then another offshoot of that museum.

[3:51:31] have attended both of those museums multiple times but I have to tell you that

[3:51:36] what these folks have done here in this space far far exceeds either one of

[3:51:44] those museums so the claim that it is a world-class museum is not not at all

[3:51:51] unfounded it is a fact this is a beautiful beautiful place by multiple factors as

[3:52:00] As a longtime resident, no, I wasn't born and raised here, but I've been here for 50

[3:52:06] years now.

[3:52:07] I think that qualifies me for not for residency, but I didn't go to high school here, I'm

[3:52:14] sorry.

[3:52:18] But this is one of the greatest things that has happened in Pueblo in that 50 years.

[3:52:24] have strongly supported economic development all of these years and has a contractor have

[3:52:31] profited from those economic development efforts but the thinking that and the way the statute

[3:52:40] has been changed to allow for tourism development as an economic development tool I think is a brilliant

[3:52:47] move. I support the Division Museum personally and I would encourage each of you to support

[3:52:55] the museum and to vote yes. Thank you.

[3:53:05] Good evening. I know you guys are tired. My name is Trisha Burton and unlike the last guy,

[3:53:12] I did go to high school here and I have two boys at South Plain Football and one at Corwin. So,

[3:53:18] Brian, I just want to bring that perspective here professionally. I spent the last 21 years working

[3:53:23] in the sciences and high-periodic chemical manufacturing facility right here in Pueblo.

[3:53:28] Through that experience, I've seen firsthand how exposure to science, technology,

[3:53:33] engineering, and innovation can be in shaping a young person's future, excuse me.

[3:53:39] As a mother, this project is especially meaningful to me.

[3:53:43] My three boys are thriving in Pueblo city schools, strong students, athletes,

[3:53:48] and I care deeply about creating opportunities that help young people see what's possible for

[3:53:52] for the future right here, right here in the city.

[3:53:55] That same spirit is why I believe the museum matters so much.

[3:53:58] The STEAM education opportunities, this will bring to Pueblo students and families,

[3:54:02] have the potential to inspire curiosity, creativity, and future career pathways, and a truly meaningful way.

[3:54:09] As the first one in North America, I love that.

[3:54:13] I love that.

[3:54:13] This project also has a potential to become a meaningful tourism destination for Pueblo, as I've already been mentioned many times.

[3:54:20] I met someone who grew up in Pueblo, and built my career here, raising my family here.

[3:54:26] I deeply care about creating opportunities for the next generation and

[3:54:30] supporting projects that bring pride, innovation, long-term growth to our city.

[3:54:37] I believe we're called to invest in our communities and in our children and this project reflects that spirit.

[3:54:42] So just respectfully ask for a vote of yes.

[3:54:45] Thank you.

[3:54:54] Okay, that closes the

[3:54:56] on the phone chat.

[3:54:58] You wouldn't do

[3:55:00] I have to go up here, because I don't know if you'll let me speak when I get over there.

[3:55:04] President A.L.F. and members of council, tonight you find yourself at a two-way stop. One direction leads to a new way of thinking on our community while the other leaves us here, stagnant and status quo. We can build a community that attracts visitors, families, entrepreneurs, educators, employers, and investors. We can strengthen downtown specifically in your district, Councilor Latino. We can create places that people want to

[3:55:29] to experience with the amenities and family fun experiences.

[3:55:33] And we can stop acting as though Pueblo's best option is simply to defend the status quo and

[3:55:39] keep nearly $70 million of untouched potential in the bank.

[3:55:44] That is the choice behind the item, R3 that is proposed tonight, the Economic Development Agreement for Project ED-2602, the Leonardo da Vinci Museum of North America.

[3:55:53] America. It proposes an $885,000 place making investment from the existing half-cent sales

[3:56:00] economic development fund for a divine public purpose that will result in a public economic

[3:56:05] development benefit. In its first 30 days open to the public, the museum welcomed more

[3:56:11] than 7,000 paying visitors, with 55% of them traveling from outside Colorado, including

[3:56:17] guests from 39 states and seven countries. The museum also hosted nine educational field

[3:56:22] trips, has four additional field trips scheduled, served more than 200 students, and preparing

[3:56:27] to launch a growing lineup of classes, workshops, camps, and school partnerships inspired

[3:56:33] by Leonardo da Vinci.

[3:56:35] The question before City Council tonight is not whether one business or activity is entitled

[3:56:40] to public funding.

[3:56:41] They are not.

[3:56:42] The question is whether this project meets the criteria council adopted, whether it advances

[3:56:47] is a genuine public purpose and whether the agreement contains safeguards needed to protect public taxpayers.

[3:56:54] Placemaking means the process in act of creating high quality public spaces and

[3:56:58] amenities that encourages people to want, live, play, and work in our community.

[3:57:03] You approve the criteria ordinance with the change of a five to two vote on February 23rd.

[3:57:09] As a result of the approved changes, up to 15% of the uncommitted sales tax fund improvements can now fund economic catalysts,

[3:57:17] economic leakage place making, the DaVinci Museum represents one of these.

[3:57:22] A primary job means employment resulting from a regional tourism project approved by

[3:57:27] the Colorado Economic Development Commission, which qualifies for state sales tax increment

[3:57:32] revenue pursuant to the Colorado Regional Tourism Act.

[3:57:36] Well guess what?

[3:57:37] That was approved by the Economic Development Commission in February of 2025.

[3:57:42] Approving the proposed DaVinci Museum, a place-making project, is just one of many

[3:57:46] of the tiny steps in our new direction, and I ask for council to support this tonight.

[3:57:52] I see a past city councilman sitting in the office in the audience tonight,

[3:57:56] councilman Larry Attencio, and councilman Attencio used to always lead with saying,

[3:58:01] think bigger, Pueblo.

[3:58:03] And so tonight, I hope we can do that.

[3:58:06] Thank you.

[3:58:13] Do you want to speak in favor?

[3:58:15] Come on down.

[3:58:27] Hello, council. I'm Tara Chorheal. Thank you so much for your time tonight. I know that you've had a long night.

[3:58:35] This is a project I support, and I worked for the museum watching it grow from day one.

[3:58:41] Many said this museum wouldn't happen. Not only did it happen, but within two months more than 13,000 visitors have visited the museum.

[3:58:49] and on a very lean budget, the museum has managed to consistently get positive press coverage

[3:58:57] regionally and all across the state as well as nationally.

[3:59:02] Never did I expect to see nursing homes bringing tours of seniors to the museum,

[3:59:08] many in wheelchairs, nor did I expect to see those in the disability community coming in tours.

[3:59:14] our children who struggle with ADHD playing for hours in the back of the museum.

[3:59:22] Lord, did I expect to see so many groups coming in from Colorado Springs?

[3:59:27] The restaurants nearby have called staff at the museum asking that their

[3:59:32] hours are because they've had to increase their weight staff to handle load of

[3:59:37] visitors that are coming in to the restaurants after they go to the museum.

[3:59:47] I

[3:59:48] spend the other half of my time here in Pueblo, I grew up here.

[3:59:52] I am taken aback by how many people in Denver knew about this museum, and I love Bragg.

[4:00:00] Thanking that I've been part of it. It is a huge attraction for some of the people in Denver. And friends in Colorado Springs list a few of the museums that they have, that this museum is so much better. But thinking ahead, if you want to fast forward to November, there's a strong chance that public voters along with all of the voters along the front range passenger rail district will decide if they're going to bring the Colorado

[4:00:29] connector known as Cocoa the Train to Pablo and the stops there will go all

[4:00:35] the way from full Collins along Mount Loveland all the way out to Boulder with

[4:00:40] Mansor and Lucille down to Denver, Colorado Springs and then to Pablo and there

[4:00:47] is no doubt in my mind that although we have some seasonal attractions like the

[4:00:52] State Fair and the Cherry Festival and a handful of other museums the

[4:00:58] The Division Museum is in close walking distance

[4:01:01] to putting in a depot where that transition will stop.

[4:01:05] The Division Museum will be limited

[4:01:08] or just attractions bringing people from all over the state

[4:01:12] and with this I urge you to support the Division Museum.

[4:01:15] Thank you.

[4:01:23] Is there anyone else wishing to speak in favor of this ordinance?

[4:01:29] Saying none, is there anyone here wishing to speak

[4:01:32] against this ordinance?

[4:01:36] Out of order.

[4:01:36] Have

[4:01:41] us Martinez and just a point of order mayor Graham did not say her name for the record

[4:01:46] Okay, so elections have consequences folks and it was posted on Facebook that Mr. Grayo or Guayo

[4:01:54] With a video said that they will not be asking for any taxpayer money whatsoever

[4:02:02] Wow, if she was on Moray Povage light detector proven that's a lie and also

[4:02:08] So I'll get into it in a minute.

[4:02:10] They have also got some grant money, yeah.

[4:02:14] So this item is the most BS item that has ever been on council agenda.

[4:02:21] They don't need our hard earned taxpayer dollars in this to fund it.

[4:02:30] Named after someone, if he was probably born hundreds of years of later,

[4:02:37] he would be in the Epstein files.

[4:02:41] Because it's out there, you could look it up.

[4:02:44] Mr. President, point forward to it.

[4:02:46] When he was born,

[4:02:50] he did have a factuation for little boys.

[4:02:54] Will the museum teach that?

[4:02:56] No, they won't.

[4:02:57] Not the truth.

[4:02:58] And all of this is not the real McCoy.

[4:03:01] It is funny that all of a sudden a link that I have,

[4:03:06] that link has disappeared.

[4:03:09] But it's good thing I posted on Facebook and copied it.

[4:03:11] because it has a list of donors, wow, and the consultant which is Senator Alamartinus,

[4:03:18] I wonder if that's the same Senator Martinez that was on council in the past.

[4:03:23] And just to list a couple of them donors is the high paying mail in our Dandy Rose.

[4:03:27] He's also the president of the Board of Directors of Southern Colorado Foundation.

[4:03:33] It also bill and bar Vidmar donated, but it's unclear on how much these people donated.

[4:03:38] We need it.

[4:03:40] Quiet back there, Mr. Martinez, you're not in charge of the meeting.

[4:03:46] So here, I just need you to finish your time.

[4:03:49] My time is ticking.

[4:03:51] Go ahead.

[4:03:52] This has scam and con artists in all over this.

[4:03:57] Joe and company shouldn't have to pay for the cafe, the build out, the marketing, the furniture, everything that they're asking for for the $885,000.

[4:04:08] An employee told me last week that in the first 60 days 11,000 tickets were sold depending

[4:04:14] on the amount that were sold, say 55% of them were children and 45% were adults, I'm just

[4:04:20] estimating. That is $137,500. If that stays on track, they would get about $825,000 within

[4:04:29] the first year, just a ticket sales. A grant request was filled out on 228.26 by Sarah

[4:04:36] Al Martinez, like I stated, and that was for almost $15,000 which they were awarded.

[4:04:43] Thank you.

[4:04:43] Is there anyone else wishing to speak against this ordinance?

[4:04:49] Come on down.

[4:04:58] Get your button.

[4:04:59] Get your button.

[4:05:00] It's not easy being the one against something, but I'm Nikki Hart, and I'm a taxpayer standing up for what voters meant this fund to support, and that is jobs. Your decision tonight is bigger than one museum. It is the first major test of a fundamentally expanded interpretation for a fund public has relied upon to create jobs. Future applicants will point to this choice and ask why they shouldn't receive the same incentives, and how do you say no?

[4:05:29] to one if you say yes to one. The mayor asked what changed last week and the

[4:05:35] short answer is that the facts changed and they continue to change as you've

[4:05:40] seen tonight. The museum's funding representations and their visitor numbers

[4:05:45] change almost daily. The mayor herself manufactured the vacancy and she is the

[4:05:52] one that pressured pure to evict PBR in order to give this space to the museum.

[4:05:57] That is on the record.

[4:06:01] Serious governance and fiduciary concerns emerged, and the city conveniently established

[4:06:06] a new half-sent funding pathway shortly before the museum applied for their funding.

[4:06:12] Last August, I left the project, along with four others, including two board members and

[4:06:18] the organization's bookkeeper.

[4:06:20] At the time, I shared my concerns directly with the museum's board and the mayor's office

[4:06:26] through Haley Sue Robinson. I'm speaking out now because the museum's request for public funding,

[4:06:32] not because I oppose the museum itself. I supported the original version and I still do believe

[4:06:38] that a steam-focused attraction can be valuable to public and our youth. But there's some things

[4:06:45] that still remain questions. For example, there was no RFP for this project. This was done privately

[4:06:53] and people submitted at the mayor's request, it was not open to the public.

[4:06:58] Finage is not an eligible use of the funds or a project value according to the half-send fund.

[4:07:05] And how can a competitive bid exist as fund criteria mandates when the agreement allows reimbursement back to April?

[4:07:12] Project Valcon faced significant scrutiny over their jobs, but this museum is being openly supported.

[4:07:20] This museum is not the question tonight, the funding and the jobs are.

[4:07:26] Build the jobs economy first, and you will be able to watch and see how much pueblo can afford to build together.

[4:07:32] That will be a significant milestone for our community, and you can quote me on that, Mayor.

[4:07:39] And I do want to warn the city that should this pass tonight, and you decide to vote for this funding.

[4:07:45] I am providing warning that this will be tapered, challenged, because I will uphold what these voters said and council cannot override that original job's purpose.

[4:07:56] And I do have the RTA handout for you guys so that you can actually see what that meant.

[4:08:06] Anyone else wishing to speak against this ordinance,

[4:08:13] saying none the hearings closed is their motion to approve?

[4:08:16] Who said that? Councillor Gomes is there a second? Second by Councillor Latino.

[4:08:25] Questions?

[4:08:27] Councillor Dante.

[4:08:32] This is a great facility, great organization. And it's true that most

[4:08:40] everything that was said is true.

[4:08:44] But I need to look at my foodishary responsibility.

[4:08:49] And that means if I were a bank and was loaning $885,000, what would I want?

[4:08:55] I would want bank statements.

[4:08:58] I would want tax returns.

[4:09:00] I would want the budget.

[4:09:03] Some things that I've seen that I'm worried about is that memberships.

[4:09:10] I've not seen one membership and I've asked three times.

[4:09:14] I even took my grandchildren there.

[4:09:16] I've been there twice as an adult, once as a grandmother, and they never approached me for membership.

[4:09:25] CSAT, they haven't applied to CSAT, you can.

[4:09:29] Also, I've heard that there's, like was said earlier, the RTA has $17 million.

[4:09:36] Are they able to apply for that $17 million or are they using what was left from the previous

[4:09:45] as PBR.

[4:09:51] I'd also like to know who I'd like to hear from the actual operators, which

[4:09:59] I did.

[4:10:00] Good tonight. And I'd also like to see detailed information on their capital improvements, their

[4:10:09] renovations, their remodel. What does that look like? Who the actual owner is?

[4:10:20] I would

[4:10:21] just like to get more information, and because of that, I would like to postpone this and

[4:10:28] and get an actual work session and get the information that I need to make a good decision

[4:10:35] on this. I'm not saying I'm against it. I'm not saying I'm for it. Not until I actually

[4:10:42] do all my research, am I going to be able to say exactly what I'm going to do. Thank

[4:10:49] you. Councillor Gomez. Yeah. I guess for me,

[4:10:54] You know, everybody on this Council is so supportive of the idea of this facility.

[4:10:59] I know I'm on I have an art background, there's a lot of mural work, not just here,

[4:11:02] but Chicago and Florida and I've done a lot of work in the city, but what you don't do,

[4:11:09] maybe it's my background and law enforcement, you don't lie to me.

[4:11:13] Okay, when I had two prominent speakers on behalf of the museum, specifically get up there

[4:11:19] and it's on video, we don't need any funding from the city.

[4:11:23] We can handle this ourselves. That's a problem for me, okay?

[4:11:28] When you give me your word that you don't need and you're going to move forward and that's what you get me to bite into and then you come back later on

[4:11:37] And ask for 1.85 million. What am I supposed to do with that with my fiduciary responsibility to this taxpayer?

[4:11:43] I'm supposed to ignore that

[4:11:45] Is that what you want?

[4:11:47] And when I just throw our hands up and say say whatever you want we have nine other museums that are subsidized in the city

[4:11:53] Let's see where we are, nine months from now, seven months from now, in reference to the numbers

[4:11:58] they're giving us currently. Of course, they're expanded. Wait, let's see if they contract.

[4:12:05] Let's see what the actual numbers are going to, because we're going to get set up again. And that's

[4:12:10] what I feel like. I was set up, because I really believe I want this to work, believe me, I really do.

[4:12:17] But the mistake you made with me, I don't know what the rest of the council, you lied to me. Thank you.

[4:12:23] Thank you.

[4:12:25] Anybody else?

[4:12:28] Councillor Hernandez?

[4:12:30] Carla, can you come back up?

[4:12:33] Please.

[4:12:33] Thank you.

[4:12:37] Can you pull up your budget?

[4:13:03] Okay.

[4:13:03] Can you tell me what

[4:13:09] the timeframe is for each of these items?

[4:13:17] I cannot, but someone from DaVinci probably could.

[4:13:20] I do know that some of these may have already been started, which is why in the agreement

[4:13:27] you see, because this has gone through council a couple of different times, their original

[4:13:32] application was filed back in April, which is why we put in the agreement that expenses

[4:13:38] would date back to April because this process has taken some time.

[4:13:43] So some of these things are already underway.

[4:13:45] Okay, so I do not know specifically where they are in the process, but I'm sure somebody

[4:13:50] from DaVinci could probably answer that question.

[4:13:53] Okay, so the next question ahead was, I don't see gift shop on this budget.

[4:14:13] The gift shop is part of the ask.

[4:14:14] So the gift shop was part of the ask, so I'm not sure where that falls in with these numbers.

[4:14:20] So would that be something that would be backpapelied?

[4:14:23] That may be something that was back all the way from April, yes.

[4:14:26] Can you tell me how much revenue Da Vincius has generated in the two months and two weeks?

[4:14:34] So with the information that was provided to City Council with the ordinance, there was some graphs and.

[4:14:42] Yeah, I didn't get any number, they're had numbers, but not a total number.

[4:14:51] The reason I'm asking now, I'm not trying to cause trouble for anybody.

[4:14:55] But on, I think it was when the mayor did her press conference, she read.

[4:15:00] I'm offering 7,000 and then I've heard 11,000 today and then 13,000 as well. So I'm just trying to figure out what those actual numbers might be. I think I can speak to my number. So the 7,000 isn't a dollar amount. It's number of visitors. Absolutely. But I took this from their press release from several weeks ago. So the higher numbers are probably the more accurate numbers. So do we have, do we know how much revenue that they've raised?

[4:15:29] in those from those 13,000?

[4:15:31] Yes.

[4:15:32] It looks like here in the information it was,

[4:15:48] I'm not seeing revenue, all I'm seeing is

[4:15:51] numbers of visitors and the information that I have.

[4:15:59] Was anyone here from Davinci that can give us the numbers or give Councillor Hernandez

[4:16:05] the numbers?

[4:16:20] I did not bring the numbers that you're asking for now with me tonight, but I can tell

[4:16:26] I don't know why the discrepancy of numbers.

[4:16:28] The first numbers you received when we first applied were like the first 30 days.

[4:16:35] Then you began to see numbers like 11,000 in the first 60 days.

[4:16:40] And the last number was-

[4:16:42] The 13,000?

[4:16:43] Yeah, oh, yes, and it was, those were dated August the 10th.

[4:16:49] Now out of those, like I said, I'm sorry I don't have that information with me.

[4:16:54] But we have absolute numbers from ticket sales, from gift shop sales,

[4:17:01] zip codes for more they come from our system documents, all of that, and I can provide that.

[4:17:08] So as one of the earlier people said, ticket sales are only a piece of what happens.

[4:17:14] The other things that have to happen are the gift shop, and we're trying to add the coffee cafe.

[4:17:21] And that will be a revenue source.

[4:17:22] and the impact of having all of these together will help get us closer to the goal.

[4:17:29] But so, can you, Joe, can you tell me what your annual expected revenue from ticket sales or from end or gift shop sales are going to be?

[4:17:43] It's always been projections because of the moment and so on.

[4:17:46] We have projected 40,000 tickets sales per year.

[4:17:53] Okay.

[4:17:54] And the gift shop revenue we anticipated in our budget is at 200,000.

[4:18:02] Okay, so what is the $40,000 ticket sales?

[4:18:05] What is that equate to in dollars?

[4:18:08] You know, depending on memberships and we have sold very nearly 200 memberships and

[4:18:16] they vary from dual memberships to grandparent memberships and so on so forth.

[4:18:21] I do not have all of that in my mind, I certainly can provide it, but it goes into our budget for the year.

[4:18:29] Okay, thank you.

[4:18:30] The other question I had is, so with regards to OEDA, to the RTA, they have a placement qualifications from OEDA, correct?

[4:18:44] From RTA, why haven't, if they have that designation, why have they not applied for

[4:18:50] or OIDF funds, for RTA funds?

[4:18:54] So they could.

[4:18:55] They would have to go back up to the state

[4:19:00] because the city of Pablo has roughly.

[4:19:03] Nine million left?

[4:19:05] I don't think it's that high.

[4:19:06] I think it's about four million dollars.

[4:19:08] I feel all the bond payments have been made

[4:19:09] into the future.

[4:19:10] So I think it's about four million dollars.

[4:19:13] But that money is also could be potentially used

[4:19:16] for the aquatic center.

[4:19:17] So you have some-

[4:19:19] But I have the minutes from the meeting and I'm going to read you exactly what it says.

[4:19:29] That staff recommended the approval of the change in use.

[4:19:31] The commission then hereby approves the change in use in the public convention center facilities,

[4:19:36] partially funded by the RTA award, previously occupied by PBR University to allow the facilities

[4:19:42] to host DMNA, subject to the DMNA in period providing annual reports on out of store state visitation and other information as requested by Oedit or required by the terms of the RTA resolution one as previously amended.

[4:19:57] So when we talk to thank you when we talk

[4:20:00] We talked to, oh, where did it last Wednesday night? Last Wednesday night, we talked to Jeff and

[4:20:05] Jay, and Eve, right? They expressed to me that they didn't think that it would be an issue for

[4:20:11] divinity to get some of that, some of those dollars. They said it couldn't fast track it, so

[4:20:17] it wouldn't be an immediate thing, but it also wouldn't be a long process for them to receive those money.

[4:20:21] So I'm wondering when we got this designation in February or why we didn't do it at that time.

[4:20:28] Those avenues were never explored to come and ask the city for additional funds through or edit through the RTA because of the additional phase of the river walk, meaning the aquatic center.

[4:20:40] Okay.

[4:20:45] Just one last thing, Carla, can you go to your 14-485-1?

[4:20:52] I just have a question with regards to, let's, it's 7B, excuse me.

[4:21:01] I don't disagree with your statement, whether it fits or not, I just don't have a, I don't have enough information.

[4:21:10] I'm not an attorney, you are, so you're the city's attorney, so, you know, I'll have to take your word for it.

[4:21:15] The only thing that I don't understand is when you go to be, it says, employment resulting from regional tourism.

[4:21:21] The part that's missing for me is the employment part.

[4:21:25] So the primary job is to have employment resulting from regional tourism projects.

[4:21:32] So when it's part of the regional tourism district and we have, they are employing people.

[4:21:40] In the past, we have never, because if it's part of the regional tourism project, we have

[4:21:47] not tied it to specific jobs in the past.

[4:21:51] Okay, gotcha.

[4:21:51] Joe, how many employees are currently employed?

[4:21:54] And I just add, what happens, I think what you need to understand is when tourists come into town, and they buy things,

[4:22:03] it takes service people to serve them.

[4:22:08] And I think that must have been part of the reasoning about how tourism creates jobs.

[4:22:14] the employment.

[4:22:15] Yes.

[4:22:18] And again, what were you asking?

[4:22:22] How many employees do you have?

[4:22:24] Thank you.

[4:22:25] Right now, I believe we are at 14 or 15 FTEs.

[4:22:31] In other words, we have-

[4:22:34] Do you have some part-time symptoms?

[4:22:35] Six.

[4:22:35] Yes.

[4:22:36] Because we're open seven days a week, we have to alternate that and some people are only working

[4:22:42] 1332 hours and we will take that depending on that but right now we are I think 14 or 15

[4:22:51] FTEs okay.

[4:22:53] And so if I could also expand a little bit Councillor Hernandez so typically when you have

[4:22:58] a primary job they're creating something and they have a service that is then marketed

[4:23:03] outside of the community right so when you have people that are working in this type of

[4:23:08] industry. They're not creating a service. The service is performed here. All right. So it's different

[4:23:14] than the primary job that you think about because they're not creating something that is shipped

[4:23:19] outside of the city or a service that is shipped outside the city. The thing that is outside the

[4:23:25] city, the new money that's being brought in are the tourists that are being imported to the city.

[4:23:31] So they're employees. So the outside dollars that are coming in. Right. It's the outside dollars

[4:23:34] that are coming in. So, the customers are being imported for the jobs to service them.

[4:23:42] Right.

[4:23:42] Okay, so it's a little bit different model, but it's still employees that are servicing them.

[4:23:50] And I just the last question, can you tell me that there was mention tonight of where we sit with regards to table?

[4:23:58] Where do we sit with regards to table?

[4:24:00] So, this is our ordinance, we have interpreted it, it's our voter approved initiative.

[4:24:11] And so, any citizen can bring a table challenge to it, they'd bring it in district court,

[4:24:19] and then the district court judge would determine whether or not it has been interpreted, but it

[4:24:27] hasn't been challenged.

[4:24:28] So people can bring a table challenge.

[4:24:30] This one because it's a voter approved initiative, it wouldn't be a typical table challenge.

[4:24:39] Does that change with regard to the fact that it was a council that changed the criteria and not the citizens?

[4:24:45] So the voters approve City Council to create the correct area when they approve the ballot.

[4:24:54] the ballot directs them to the ordinance which allows City Council to create the

[4:25:00] The criteria and regulations to determine how the money is spent. And so that's been in the case for a very long time.

[4:25:10] The criteria has been developed and changed over the years. It was codified in 2012 into the code. And it's been amended a couple of different times.

[4:25:24] Okay, that's it. Thank you.

[4:25:27] Councillor Latino.

[4:25:30] Yes, the museum is in my district and I'm obviously

[4:25:40] very pleased with what's going on.

[4:25:44] It's obviously a catalyst for this community in terms of a draw.

[4:25:49] But I've had nine museums in the city and county Pebble lobby meet today with regards to the finances.

[4:26:03] The Heritage Museum, the Rosemond, the Wisebroad, Risebrood, Aircraft Museum, which had a big event this past weekend.

[4:26:11] The Bule Children's Museum, Pebble Railroad Museum, Railway Museum, the San Francisco Arts and Conference Center.

[4:26:18] Rosemite Carriage Museum, the Alpube Museum,

[4:26:22] and we have the Home of Heroes Museum.

[4:26:28] I really want to help, but I just can't approve the request.

[4:26:37] I just can't.

[4:26:39] We've got coffee shops, the sacred bean right down the street.

[4:26:44] We've got the solar roast up here.

[4:26:47] We're competing against our own community with city money.

[4:26:54] And that doesn't sit well in a free enterprise, in a republic or democratic environment.

[4:27:04] It doesn't work.

[4:27:07] And so that's where I am.

[4:27:09] I guess I need more information, but based on the contacts that I've had and the fact

[4:27:17] that we're dealing with other organizations in this community, at this point in time I

[4:27:23] I can't support it.

[4:27:26] So what I would, how I respond to you, Councillor Lutino, is that all the other museums can apply for funds from the House and Sales Tax under the place making if they meet the criteria.

[4:27:41] So you folks change the criteria. If they meet the criteria, they can also apply. Currently, the city does fund these other museums and subsidize them.

[4:27:52] So, the city is subsidizing these other museums that you mentioned, it's just not out-of-the-half-since-sales tax fund.

[4:28:01] And so, the city's already doing that through rent subsidies for the railroad heritage museum.

[4:28:12] I think they pay $10 a year in rent to the city.

[4:28:16] So that's a pretty large subsidy from the Rail and the Heritage Museum.

[4:28:22] I've also provided you with information about the art center.

[4:28:28] The city of Pueblo has given the art center over $1.7 million in the last five years out of the general fund.

[4:28:36] Really with no strings attached.

[4:28:38] It was just non-departmental ask that came forward to city council, that city council funded.

[4:28:45] This agreement before you looks much different tonight because there's actually milestones

[4:28:51] that this museum has to meet in order to keep this money.

[4:28:56] That is not the case for maybe the other nine museums that you have spoken about.

[4:29:02] And when you and I spoke earlier today, we had also talked about how if these museums were

[4:29:09] able to put a collective application together when it comes to increasing tourism, that

[4:29:15] But that is something that City Council could also support, as long as it was to fall within the criteria of the ordinance that you voted to change.

[4:29:24] But just so you know, all of these museums are receiving or have received a subsidy as big as $1.7 million to the art center.

[4:29:34] Not only did the art center just receive 1.7 from the city, last year the Urban or No authority also gave them $400,000 in which they've been working to do their.

[4:29:44] expansion that you currently see going on.

[4:29:47] So there has been a lot of public funds that have been

[4:29:50] vested throughout the community,

[4:29:52] throughout all of our great museums that you spoke about.

[4:29:55] Well, it's my understanding also that the museum

[4:29:59] Let's go.

[4:30:00] On B Street, they're in the process of buying that building. They have submitted an L.O.I. to city council in which we did this and executive session a few weeks ago. Right. I met with them last week. I got that. Yes. Okay. Thank you.

[4:30:18] You know, it was a fun, point changes hard, changes really hard, and I think it's hard

[4:30:25] on everybody.

[4:30:27] You know, in February and there were several meetings before February, you know, I personally

[4:30:36] argued passionately to change the criteria ordinance.

[4:30:42] I thought that this is literally a way forward for this community.

[4:30:47] We've been hearing for years and years and years.

[4:30:51] We need to be doing something.

[4:30:53] This pet co is not working out.

[4:30:56] The way that we spend our lives, not working out,

[4:30:59] we need to do something.

[4:31:00] So, low and behold, we do something,

[4:31:03] and then all health breaks loose.

[4:31:06] Right?

[4:31:07] Now it's a disaster.

[4:31:10] And

[4:31:13] the reality is we made a bold move.

[4:31:16] five city councilors in February said we want to change this. We want to change, we

[4:31:24] want to have a paradigm shift within the city of Pueblo when it comes to economic

[4:31:28] development. There are other ways to make money within a community and just because it's

[4:31:38] a museum doesn't mean it shouldn't be blackball because it's has museum on it. What does

[4:31:45] Does it bring to the community?

[4:31:47] You had person after person come up here and tell us what does it bring to the community?

[4:31:53] It brings a whole heck of a lot to the community.

[4:31:56] Even those against are not against the museum, just against the way that we're attempting

[4:32:02] to give them some money.

[4:32:03] But if it qualifies, under the change of the criteria ordinance, and five counselors out

[4:32:09] of seven said, we want to change that criteria ordinance.

[4:32:12] We want to change the way that Pueblo does business when it comes to economic development

[4:32:18] that I think you need to put your vote or your mouth is.

[4:32:27] And people are going to be mad.

[4:32:31] People are going to be mad and they're going to say you shouldn't have done that.

[4:32:34] And then there's going to be people that are going to say that's the best thing you could

[4:32:37] have ever done.

[4:32:38] That's the way every vote goes.

[4:32:40] It's not just this vote, nobody's ever going to agree on everything.

[4:32:45] This meets the criteria that City Council put in place.

[4:32:50] It meets the criteria that was changed in 2011 when City Council says we're going to long

[4:32:58] urban renewal $14 million for RTA projects.

[4:33:03] I didn't see a plethora of people standing in line to say that's a misuse of the money

[4:33:09] I never saw that.

[4:33:11] I never saw when we decided during the pandemic when Councillor

[4:33:17] Winner said, you know what?

[4:33:18] I think we ought to take $5 million out of the half-cent sales tax fund and loan it to

[4:33:23] businesses.

[4:33:25] There was nothing written in the criteria ordinance that said we could do that, but we said

[4:33:29] yeah, you know what?

[4:33:30] We think we should do that because it's the right thing to do.

[4:33:35] So I mean, you can get all twisted up, all twisted up on the way things, on how you want

[4:33:41] to interpret something, but the reality is it fits the definition.

[4:33:46] It fits the definition, it's a good project, and we have invested, invested, a tremendous

[4:33:54] amount of energy for this to be successful.

[4:33:58] So let's not throw them to the Wolf City Council.

[4:34:01] Let's not say this isn't worthy of, you know, when they came to town, we said it's worthy,

[4:34:08] But now that they want some money, we say they're not worthy.

[4:34:11] I don't know why somebody says they don't need money,

[4:34:13] and then they do need money.

[4:34:15] But my goodness, this is exactly what we set out to do

[4:34:19] when we made that vote in February.

[4:34:22] So I'm supporting you.

[4:34:27] Not really.

[4:34:29] Thank you, Mr. President.

[4:34:32] I have been able to tour the museum,

[4:34:34] and I think it's a wonderful asset to the community.

[4:34:36] And of the 20 people that testified on this today,

[4:34:42] you went over and over about the actual programming that is being done in this facility.

[4:34:50] However, only $250,000 of the proposed budget is for programming that is presented today.

[4:34:57] We don't have any information on-

[4:35:00] How much money it's actually made? We don't, Mr. Arrigo himself could not bring good data to us today to tell us any of the information. This is your money. And yes, city council stood here in February, 30 days into being sworn in and 60 days out of an election that you voted for a certain thing when you voted to put this fund back and it meant for primary jobs. We decided as a council.

[4:35:28] to change that? And so my question to you is to the 12,000 voters who did not approve

[4:35:37] with this five of the council decided are those 12,000 voters going to be okay with us

[4:35:43] funding this project way it is we didn't even had a word from the community when that decision

[4:35:51] was made in February. So my proposal is I would like to move that we postpone this vote

[4:35:57] and invite Mr. Arrigo himself to come before the council and provide us with, you're asking for city money Mr. Arrigo

[4:36:06] and so I think that the fair thing to do at this point in time is I would be willing to offer a work session come September the 8th

[4:36:17] where you can come with answers and speak to the public about all of the things that you're proposing

[4:36:25] giving us the numbers that have come through, your financials, all of that is important for us to maintain the fiscal, the fiduciary duty to the voters who are going to be spending their money.

[4:36:37] And what's being proposed now is only from what, and this was just given to us today, as we're getting ready to make a vote of what the anticipated budget looks like.

[4:36:48] So just to answer some questions, I think that's fair to the community.

[4:36:53] There's also questions around what happens, this is only according to this ordinance, seven years.

[4:37:00] So what happens after seven years, then who owns the renovations that your taxpayer dollars are paying for?

[4:37:08] So I just feel like, at this point, there are several voices on the council today that still don't have all the information.

[4:37:16] And the other piece, too, is I feel like you need to answer to the community when,

[4:37:23] twice, there's work from the museum that you are not going to come and

[4:37:26] ask the city for money to fund the project.

[4:37:30] So, if we can, we have to defend, or why we're doing that when that was what was

[4:37:35] happening at the beginning of it.

[4:37:37] So, that is the, I feel a fair approach at this point to give us the information

[4:37:42] that we need to make the decision.

[4:37:44] So I would like to be fair to be fair alone and I understand what Councilor Reeves Gomez is saying

[4:37:51] But when this all started

[4:37:53] What was sent over to city council was a complete breakdown of the the venturing museum all the projections

[4:38:01] Everything was in our packet when this when this all began if we didn't read it. I can't tell you this verified

[4:38:11] That's what I we can get a lot of information

[4:38:13] I guess, so again, you're calling him a liar and just saying that whatever their

[4:38:18] thrown us is lies and we're going to have to sit here and micromanage. Could you please

[4:38:23] have your accountant, your checkbooks and all your bring all your money, all your cash,

[4:38:27] everything that you have, so city council can see exactly what you have. I mean, that's

[4:38:32] what we're asking. But that's all you ask of everybody who's asking for city dollars. It's

[4:38:36] not outrageous request. The original had it open.

[4:38:42] So the original packet that was originally submitted had all that information and the other thing just to respond to you Councillor Ruiz Gomez

[4:38:51] Is everything that's in the building all the fixtures all of the improvements

[4:38:56] Become the property of urban renewal and stay with the building so all of that stays with the building

[4:39:01] It's a public building and those those assets then become public assets

[4:39:07] So the improvements all the money that's being invested in that building is going to improve

[4:39:12] a public asset.

[4:39:14] Well, we have a, we need to take care of business.

[4:39:16] We have a motion to postpone.

[4:39:18] Can I like the, I like the make of a comment.

[4:39:20] We, you will be able to, there's a motion that we have

[4:39:23] to deal with, a motion to postpone to when September 48th.

[4:39:28] September, thank you, Mr. President.

[4:39:31] September 14th, and I will put this on the work session

[4:39:34] September 8th.

[4:39:35] Is there, I would invite Mr. Arrigo back to answer.

[4:39:37] Is there a second on, second by Councillor Dante?

[4:39:41] say, comments, Councilor Gomez.

[4:39:44] What you're asking me to do is be complicit.

[4:39:48] The half-set sales tax dollars were not for this.

[4:39:52] The primary definition of a primary job is not being any of this.

[4:39:56] And you're asking me to be complicit with that when I know

[4:40:00] I'm not doing it because it's, I'm going to share something that shocked me. I got a call from somebody that was very close to you, and then you're, I'm not going to give his identity away. But when he made a statement to you, I couldn't quite figure it out. And his statement to me was basically Mr. Eurego, you're not going to be able to afford to the one that you're asking for. I couldn't figure it out at first. I figured it out and he said, you're going to regret it. It was at 1.87 million.

[4:40:29] The next day, it's shaved down by a million dollars.

[4:40:32] Why did you ask for 1.8, and then shave it down to a million dollars?

[4:40:36] Why did you ask for it in the first place?

[4:40:38] If you'll allow me to answer that.

[4:40:42] When we first applied for the 1.8 you're talking about, there were two sections.

[4:40:50] One was the capitalization that exists, the 885,000.

[4:40:56] the other remaining amount was for personnel, for employees.

[4:41:02] And what happened was it took so long for that process to happen, we were already opening,

[4:41:10] and we were already hiring employees.

[4:41:13] And what we were told was our original application would not allow us to count the people that

[4:41:23] we had already hired.

[4:41:25] We were looking at 25 people over a two year period for employment and we had already

[4:41:34] hired this 14 FTE and they said well no you now you have to hire 25 more.

[4:41:40] The circumstances change they wouldn't allow us to count the people that we had already

[4:41:46] hired.

[4:41:47] Therefore I said we can't possibly do that, it's not logical, it's not responsible and

[4:41:54] And so will you consider just the capitalization of what we're doing to finish remodeling the

[4:42:01] building and have a greater impact with the programs that we're creating, the spaces

[4:42:08] that you're talking about, Councilman Dante, part of it is to have spaces to increase

[4:42:17] that programming for steam and depending on how the construction goes, all of that construction

[4:42:25] belongs to the building and belongs to the city. Everything we've put in so far and everything

[4:42:32] we're talking about here that's construction, it's part of the building and belongs to the city.

[4:42:37] I don't think you would do anything else here in the questions we're asking you because you're asking

[4:42:42] this council to accept everything you're saying. We have the mayor who just basically admitted

[4:42:47] that it's going to probably be another 1.7 million subsidy museum down the road here. I

[4:42:53] don't want to do that. I don't think so. I'm talking about the other. Let me finish. The other

[4:42:59] museums were having subsidies up to 1.7 million. Do you say that or not? I did. But this, not this

[4:43:06] That's the museum counselor Gomez.

[4:43:07] You know, we're not here.

[4:43:09] On other sub-city, is that City Council closed.

[4:43:12] I'm not gonna take the risk on that, bet.

[4:43:13] I'm sorry, this is what you have to do.

[4:43:15] That's why you have a fiduciary responsibility.

[4:43:18] We have, I'll be honest with you, mayor.

[4:43:20] You have, we have to depend on a city council attorney.

[4:43:24] We have one dismissal after the other.

[4:43:26] I'm not feeling really good about our legal attorney, I'm sorry.

[4:43:30] We're going to take another, we're going to get caught again.

[4:43:33] We're going to get caught again and we just had to do this missiles on two pet pet go votes

[4:43:37] We got a fraud a fraud vote coming up. We're sitting here like none of this stuff matters

[4:43:42] Well, it matters to me. I'm not going to violate my oath to me

[4:43:46] Not just the oath to the city. I'm telling you this is

[4:43:50] If what it came to us straight up said this is what we need to do up front

[4:43:54] This is oh, we don't we do actually need some help. We don't need funding

[4:43:58] That's what you set us up for, and that's what we bid on.

[4:44:02] This is your fault, not ours.

[4:44:11] I

[4:44:14] really want to find a reason to vote yes for this.

[4:44:17] I really do, because I think it's a great thing for public.

[4:44:20] I think it's, and as far as museums are concerned, my grandkids have been there and they came

[4:44:26] back and reported to me how wonderful it was.

[4:44:28] They just had an outstanding time.

[4:44:29] What I'm having a problem with is not having enough information, not having enough numbers,

[4:44:36] which is our fiduciary responsibility before we make a decision on something.

[4:44:42] If you've had 13, 14,000, whatever, 13,000 visitors to the museum, we don't know how much money that, what does that mean?

[4:44:53] So when I ask, why I want to know how much money it is because then I can extrapolate that out for the whole year.

[4:44:58] So then I can decide from

[4:45:04] We're going to have to ask for some more money. That's all I'm asking. I just want to know how those numbers extrapolate out over the year so that I can feel comfortable with my vote. That's all I'm asking.

[4:45:27] Councilman, as you heard earlier, ticket sales, gift shop sales, and coffee shop sales will never support the type of 501c3 that we have.

[4:45:40] That doesn't, that is the nature of what happens.

[4:45:45] We have to continually look for grants and look for programs and so on.

[4:45:50] It's, that's the nature of the business.

[4:45:53] I don't care if you're this symphony, if you're the art center or whatever, you always have to look for supporters and sponsors and people that will align with education and children and so on, and we will always be doing that.

[4:46:10] And the sustainability happens with the impact that we can make, the money that we're asking for as a revenue source to the coffee shop.

[4:46:22] It would we did have originally to expand the gift shop and we we would do that

[4:46:29] Also, we expand the programming in the science technology engineering art and math area and that will allow us to have

[4:46:38] More programs that we can charge for and so it is

[4:46:43] It is impactful

[4:46:45] by

[4:46:46] by investing money in that now to have a quicker impact on what we're trying to do to grow.

[4:46:53] So you think that with this $855,000, whatever the amount is, that you think that that's going

[4:46:59] to help you to get started, get going, get through the door, and then you have other

[4:47:05] sources of funding to carry you through the next year.

[4:47:09] Absolutely that this gives us an impact much quicker than it would any other way.

[4:47:17] Based on the numbers that we've given you, I think we told you that these projects

[4:47:23] would eventually happen just more slowly.

[4:47:28] And that this amount of money, the way the agreement is written, we would have to fulfill

[4:47:36] the spending in 18 months, some of these things take like the signage and so on and so forth.

[4:47:44] They're six months out.

[4:47:46] It's hard to determine those things, but those things will help us be more visible on the river walk, be more impactful for the rest of the tourism, so on and so forth, and give us a revenue source with the coffee cafe,

[4:48:01] and so that will help us make an impact quicker.

[4:48:05] Thank you.

[4:48:06] Mayor Graham.

[4:48:08] So I've heard a lot from City Council tonight

[4:48:11] about how unprepared you are.

[4:48:13] We have had multiple executive sessions.

[4:48:19] You have said in meetings with these people

[4:48:21] you have all seen the application.

[4:48:24] This process has been going on since April.

[4:48:29] For the three of you tonight that said

[4:48:31] that you are not prepared because you have not got your questions answered?

[4:48:34] That is because you have not answered questions.

[4:48:37] You have me available, Councillor Isgoma, as you met with me on Friday.

[4:48:41] You didn't ask one question about this.

[4:48:43] You didn't ask about their funding.

[4:48:44] You didn't ask about their ticket sales.

[4:48:46] You didn't ask about how much the tickets are who's coming into this museum.

[4:48:51] Councillor Dante, I speak to you every Monday before City Council, and we go over the agenda.

[4:48:57] And you ask for specifics.

[4:48:58] I'm surprised that these questions that you have tonight have never been asked before.

[4:49:03] The only one of you that has even reached out to me to ask for documentations as it

[4:49:09] regards to the RTA, what this funding looks like, is President Alif.

[4:49:14] Not one of you has reached out to say we want to know what their financial situation is.

[4:49:20] We want to know how many tickets are sold.

[4:49:22] That's on you. That's not on these people. That is disrespectful and disappointing that you're not doing your jobs.

[4:49:30] Mr. Perry, please.

[4:49:35] Very same time, if these specific members of City Council who are willing to sign $65 million out of this account,

[4:49:46] to one project, no freaking question asked, that is mind-blowing to me.

[4:49:52] It is your job to ask the questions and prepare yourself for these meetings to drag this on now, too

[4:50:00] 10 o'clock at night because you're not prepared for your city council meeting to hear from your people. Mr. President, can I have a point of order please? I'm not done.

[4:50:12] I think that we've got your point across on preparedness. I

[4:50:24] don't think I have. Because we're still here and we're still asking for this to be taken. We're talking, I think.

[4:50:31] to be able to mail that like they're asking the question I have here and I listen to them.

[4:50:38] I think that please listen to me.

[4:50:42] You have made a motion to table this because you said you're unprepared as you do

[4:50:47] with every ordinance that you don't want to vote on. That's not acceptable.

[4:50:56] You have the information and you've had it.

[4:51:01] Since April, it's unfair, it's unfair to bring them through the ringer tonight, ask for their checkbook and their financials.

[4:51:14] Councillor Bosses.

[4:51:15] Thank you, Mr. President.

[4:51:18] I just like to say thank you for what you said, Mr. President.

[4:51:22] You know, you definitely have a second gig ready for you as a motivational speaker.

[4:51:25] I think after this you had it ready to run through a wall.

[4:51:27] I really appreciate some of the points you brought up.

[4:51:29] And Mayor Graham, you saw a couple of mine because I've been waiting so patiently to speak.

[4:51:33] You know, the best word I could use is disappointed with tonight.

[4:51:37] You know, whether you agree with funding or not, I just feel so hard-broken for you, Mr.

[4:51:41] Arrigo.

[4:51:41] You have put so much effort and time and energy into this great asset for the community.

[4:51:46] And, you know, regardless of the funding, I'm very disappointed that all this has just happened.

[4:51:55] And, you know, you're very not deserving of this.

[4:51:56] You're very generous and gracious individual, and the museum is going to be a great asset.

[4:52:00] Regardless of whether or not you get the funding, I think you'll be successful.

[4:52:03] and I really hope that you can get the funding,

[4:52:05] but I'm just really disappointed

[4:52:07] with how this whole system has gone.

[4:52:09] You know, a lot of us when we were elected,

[4:52:11] we were hoping for change.

[4:52:12] The community was hoping for change.

[4:52:14] We talked about this at our round table

[4:52:15] when the newly elected were at our first round table,

[4:52:18] the four of us together.

[4:52:19] I remember us talking about change.

[4:52:21] On that meeting, when you were new,

[4:52:22] whether or not you thought you were doing the right thing

[4:52:24] or whatever it was that you said a few minutes ago,

[4:52:28] you know, you wanted change, the people wanted change.

[4:52:30] We implemented change,

[4:52:31] And now we have an opportunity to try to do some change.

[4:52:36] Who knows if it will work, but you don't know if you don't try, and you miss 100% of the opportunities you don't try, unfortunately.

[4:52:43] And I think this is something that we should look at trying.

[4:52:47] We need to try something different.

[4:52:49] The main priority of the fund still remains primary jobs.

[4:52:52] And again, like stated by the mayor, I've never seen this kind of scrutiny towards any other project.

[4:52:59] when the amount's asked for astronomically larger than this, it's very unfortunate.

[4:53:04] And looking ahead, the agenda going forward, let's see where's the agenda for

[4:53:11] Mr. Martinez. Might as well get this schedule on a work session as well,

[4:53:16] because Mr. Martinez has been to three or four work sessions.

[4:53:19] We've talked about this idea for over a year, and he's been begging and waiting.

[4:53:24] This is the reason we changed this, but if we need more information from him,

[4:53:27] I mean, let's get this going now so that we don't have to postpone that as well because as that gentleman spoke about during public forum,

[4:53:34] these COs aren't held up by the city, it's CDI, and we need to put this infrastructure and we need to try new things.

[4:53:39] He said it was going to generate over $200,000 a year.

[4:53:42] Imagine how fast we're going to recoup the money.

[4:53:43] I mean, why don't we try things?

[4:53:45] I mean, I understand wanting some information, but again, when we sat me in Mr. Hernandez and in those executive sessions,

[4:53:53] We've got presented all the financials, all this information with the jobs and all the entire breakdown he gave presentations

[4:53:59] And I'm pretty sure you've given another presentation to this council prior to that

[4:54:03] Regarding some of this information or you know back then when the museum wasn't asking for funding

[4:54:08] You know I in the end of it, you know, we have a vote to make you know and we can stand here on our personal biases or you know

[4:54:16] But legal's opinion is allowed by many councils prior to this elections prior to this. It's a legal thing

[4:54:23] If you don't like it for personal bias, I don't think that's right, but you're entitled to your vote.

[4:54:28] And, you know, again, my apologies to you in the community for hurting this asset, I think, with the reputation we're providing right now.

[4:54:36] And I do apologize on behalf of myself.

[4:54:41] Thank you, Mr. President.

[4:54:44] I don't believe that we have heard anything since June 12th when this museum opened.

[4:54:50] And yes, maybe we had time, but now is the time where we're asking more questions.

[4:54:59] It doesn't matter.

[4:55:02] The point is now, now the time is, this is, where are you now with the financials? That's what the public is wanting to know. And if you don't care about where, this $800,000 don't are just saying okay, fine. But this is not for a lack of presentation. I am not going to

[4:55:29] Say what was said in executive session, but I haven't seen anything.

[4:55:36] That's why we're asking now.

[4:55:38] And yes, I will own that maybe up to now.

[4:55:41] We're asking these questions, but in the end of the day, mayor grab respectfully.

[4:55:46] I don't, I want to hear from Mr. Rico.

[4:55:49] I don't want to hear a defense from you.

[4:55:52] You are mayor, you represent our city.

[4:55:54] This is about understanding from this gentleman who his organization is coming to us asking for city dollars and tax payer dollars.

[4:56:06] So that is where I'm kind of at with it.

[4:56:08] The public wants to believe where I'm prepared.

[4:56:11] It's fine, but I want to hear from the person who's requesting the funding and I think we've heard over and over this case for this.

[4:56:21] We're just fine, like I'm not opposing this, I am just trying to say, like we want to hear from you and your organization and we have not

[4:56:30] Can you tell we have we and that's why I'm offering the work session to do that and to open up that conversation so that you and your organization

[4:56:39] Can make a case to us as the council as to how why the funding that we are

[4:56:45] The funding in question is about capitalization and

[4:56:50] expanded on remodeling and expanding the building and remodeling the building.

[4:56:57] I did not bring financials which would show our budget between now and

[4:57:04] the end of the year and that sort of thing.

[4:57:06] Everything has been projections.

[4:57:08] Now I didn't bring those books with me tonight.

[4:57:11] the part that you're asking is about the money that we're asking for, it has to be spent

[4:57:21] on the items that we have provided for you.

[4:57:25] And we have to account for that and be transparent about that.

[4:57:29] It has nothing to do directly with how many tickets we've sold or how many things are sold

[4:57:35] in the gift shop.

[4:57:36] But it has to do with can we meet the requirements of where we spend the money that we're asking

[4:57:45] for.

[4:57:46] And it's all on signage or on developing equipment and that sort of thing.

[4:57:52] So would you be willing to come and have a better conversation and bring that to us to have

[4:57:57] a conversation with us?

[4:57:59] What that looks like?

[4:58:00] Lots of folks said we'd like to see more financial information.

[4:58:04] It was given to you specifically line by line by line in the original request and the fact

[4:58:16] that you haven't seen it, I'm not sure it was provided.

[4:58:21] We just saw the budget for this particular ordinance this evening.

[4:58:25] The budget you saw tonight, but all the information he's talking about was in the original

[4:58:30] application which council has been provided. But that was the original application. This

[4:58:36] is the budget that we're barely seeing with the expenditure. I don't know.

[4:58:44] Councillor

[4:58:44] Hernandez. No, I apologize if we've come off, if I come off rough on you, I can't apologize

[4:58:52] for anybody else. That certainly is not my intent. My intent is to make sure that the voters

[4:58:58] members of the city, the people who voted for this have sent sales tax feel like I'm managing the fiduciary responsibility I have to make sure that we're not giving money away that we shouldn't be given away.

[4:59:11] And that's why I ask the questions that I ask with regards to what your revenues are right now.

[4:59:17] I mean, I don't know and I apologize if that offends people to want to know what kind of money a business is making that's asking us for money.

[4:59:28] We've done it with every other entity that has come to ask for money.

[4:59:37] We have asked these same questions.

[4:59:41] Councillor Boston scolded somebody who was before work session because they hadn't gone

[4:59:47] through the process yet.

[4:59:48] I would love to have you in work session so that we can ask these questions and we can

[4:59:53] get better answers so that we can make that, yes, vote.

[4:59:58] That's all I'm asking.

[4:59:58] Thank you.

[4:59:59] Bye.

[5:00:00] I'm not trying to offend anybody, and Mayor, you left me out, thankfully, of your criticism because I have asked questions. I'm trying to find additional funding through it. I'm trying to find more money for the museum. I'm not against the museum. I want this museum. It's important to me, but we have to find the right funding for it, and that's all my concern is whether it's this or whether it's funding from somewhere else.

[5:00:26] Thank you.

[5:00:38] I'm not trying intentionally upset you, but I do want to make sure that over the seven

[5:00:45] years that you have to pay this back that you're capable of doing that.

[5:00:52] And I've read everything that was given to me.

[5:00:55] and all I'm asking for is the most current information.

[5:01:02] The most current tax returns, you know.

[5:01:13] No more outbursts, please.

[5:01:16] I mean, City Council sat here and listened to everybody's testimony.

[5:01:21] We didn't interrupt.

[5:01:22] We didn't yell at you.

[5:01:23] We didn't do anything else like that.

[5:01:26] Please allow the same respect for City Council.

[5:01:29] No more outbursts, please.

[5:01:32] Councillor Donta.

[5:01:33] Let me finish.

[5:01:34] If I was a bank and was asking for a loan,

[5:01:39] which I've done it several times,

[5:01:41] I've been asked for two months of bank statements,

[5:01:46] two years of tax returns.

[5:01:48] It's not something that's not been done.

[5:01:52] And that's all we're asking is to see exactly what your financial capabilities are because you're asking for money from us.

[5:02:03] I will be happy to provide that information and if it's in a work session, we have all of that information.

[5:02:10] I just, I don't have it with me, I have it up to date.

[5:02:14] We have our information, our projected budget for 2025, the end of the year.

[5:02:23] Our budget for 2026 is under development because we're not sure exactly where we're going to be there.

[5:02:32] But we have the projections that we made before now, but we have actual information, bank statements,

[5:02:41] Bank balances, number of tickets sold, all of those things.

[5:02:45] I'd be happy to provide that.

[5:02:46] I just didn't happy happen to bring it with me tonight.

[5:02:50] I'm not upset that you didn't bring it tonight.

[5:02:52] I didn't expect that.

[5:02:53] That's why we were trying to postpone it.

[5:02:56] So there's a motion to postpone and there's a second.

[5:03:00] So if you guys want to vote on that,

[5:03:03] before we, yeah, before we all go crazy,

[5:03:07] like this, and like this quote from the City Council.

[5:03:09] Sure.

[5:03:11] Councillor Gomez.

[5:03:12] I'd like to ask the attorney.

[5:03:13] Are you the city attorney for the mayor, are you the council?

[5:03:18] What is your role?

[5:03:19] And what happens when we're on different, how does that work?

[5:03:22] I am the city attorney for the city.

[5:03:25] I represent the best interest of the city.

[5:03:28] But what does, so if we have a division on a difference of opinion, how do you, I'm just

[5:03:36] curious, how do you feel in reference to primary jobs?

[5:03:39] What's your definition? Do you think we're meeting the definition of the primary jobs in the half-centred sales tax fund?

[5:03:44] Yes or no?

[5:03:45] So the definition is in the ordinance that City Council has approved.

[5:03:50] I have shown you the ordinance and I have given you my legal opinion.

[5:03:54] You're asking us to violate it?

[5:03:57] I have never asked you to violate it.

[5:03:59] I have told you what the definition is and I have given you my legal opinion.

[5:04:03] You've been wrong on the definition. The definition is plainly spelled out.

[5:04:08] We're not meeting the basic requirements of the Hessian Stucks and you know it.

[5:04:13] Mr. Gomez, with all due respect, you are not an attorney.

[5:04:16] You're right.

[5:04:17] I have been an attorney.

[5:04:18] I've been practicing for 30 years.

[5:04:20] I don't care.

[5:04:21] So I have read it.

[5:04:23] I understood it and I've given my opinion.

[5:04:27] We've lost many more cases than we've won.

[5:04:30] We haven't lost a single case, Mr. Gomez.

[5:04:40] Okay,

[5:04:44] there's a motion to postpone any other questions.

[5:04:47] What about me?

[5:04:48] Joe.

[5:04:56] This is something else.

[5:04:58] It really is.

[5:05:00] Again, again,

[5:05:04] the organization in terms of what's being asked by council members here, my colleagues, is not something that should be looked at in a light manner. And we're asking the right questions. We're talking about money, we're talking about other organizations in this community. We're talking about the DaVinci museum, the only one in North America,

[5:05:31] America, which we all brag about, it's the only one in North America, okay?

[5:05:36] However, we've got to be responsible for finances, too.

[5:05:41] That's our responsibility.

[5:05:42] And what I've had the calls that I've had in the last week from people that are intelligent

[5:05:48] people, not just somebody that just make a comment because they don't like somebody.

[5:05:56] They're making comments because they have an understanding of what's going on in terms of finance, okay?

[5:06:04] Again, I'm not going to support this now. I need more facts. That's where I am.

[5:06:10] Okay, there's a motion to close point with a second. It's called for the vote

[5:06:21] passes five to two. Mr. Clerk, item R4.

[5:06:30] Item R4, an ordinance submitting to the eligible electors, we

[5:06:46] still have to have a meeting, so

[5:06:50] Mr. Court, go ahead.

[5:06:52] Item R4, an ordinance submitting to the eligible electors of the City of Pueblo, Colorado at the coordinated election to be held November 3rd, 2026.

[5:07:01] The question related to the imposition of an additional 1.25% sales and use tax for parks and recreation and adoption of ordinance number 11240 to implement the tax introduced August 20 or August 10th, 2026 by Councillor Selene and Marie Scobens.

[5:07:23] We just have an elected official who has just threatened.

[5:07:27] I'm going to let everybody get out of here,

[5:07:31] can we?

[5:07:37] You walked up to the dais and go ahead.

[5:08:15] Mr. Clerk, will you read R4 again, please?

[5:08:19] I will.

[5:08:20] R4 in ordinance submitting to the eligible electors of the City of

[5:08:24] a couple of Colorado at the coordinated election to be held on November 3, 2026.

[5:08:29] A question related to the imposition of an additional 1.25% sales and use tax for the parks and recreation.

[5:08:38] And the adoption of ordinance number 11240 to implement the tax introduced August 10th, 2026 by councillor Savuina Ruiz-Gomens.

[5:08:48] Thank you, Mr. Clerk. We have a staff report.

[5:08:49] Yes, thank you, President.

[5:08:52] President Alif, members of Council, Madam Mayor, this is going to be one of four ordinances

[5:09:01] that you're going to see here tonight that's going to, excuse me, propose a 0.25% sales

[5:09:08] and use tax increase.

[5:09:12] This one is for parks and recreation.

[5:09:17] You may recall that the mayor presented at a work session, a couple weeks ago, presented

[5:09:24] several ideas for you for sales and use tax.

[5:09:29] City Council gave some comments to those, and so staff went back and revised these ordinances

[5:09:35] based upon your comments.

[5:09:36] The parks and recreation is a 2.5% sales and use tax revenues that would be deposited in a dedicated parks and recreation sales and use tax fund and use solely for parks and recreation purposes within the city.

[5:09:56] Such purposes shall include, but not be limited to you part-

[5:10:04] The funding will be used to maintain and enhance parks and recreation programs, including but not limited to the kitty ride, swimming lessons, swimming pools, youth tennis, and other spurting programs. The funding will also help maintain and improve park facilities, community centers, trails, and open spaces. If approved by the voters, the new rate would take effect January 1st, 2027,

[5:10:28] and would be permanent and so section 18.18-5 the city charter provides that an ordinance adopted by the electoral vote cannot be repealed or amended except by electoral vote with the result that the dedication and the new revenues to parks and recreation purposes is locked into the code and may not be redirected by city council without subsequent voter approval.

[5:10:53] So this one went through very little change because you folks had the least amount of comments about Park from Recreation.

[5:11:03] So that concludes my staff report about this and I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have.

[5:11:09] Thank you for that report.

[5:11:10] This is a public hearing.

[5:11:11] Is there anyone here wishing to speak in favor of this ordinance?

[5:11:16] Seeing none, is there anyone in here wishing to speak against this ordinance?

[5:11:31] I don't know how to follow what just happened, but I'll try my best.

[5:11:36] This is not how local government makes Pueblo great again, I started off with that on purpose.

[5:11:46] If it is time for all of us to pull together and demand the City Council and the mayor not

[5:11:55] to increase our taxes, or they could resign and leave Pueblo and move to Denver if you

[5:12:02] like higher taxes,

[5:12:07] let someone else take your seat that won't vote to put a higher tax

[5:12:12] on the ballot. We the people only need four council members to shut down the regime.

[5:12:21] If this goes to the ballot and passes, this would be a forever tax. There is no sunset

[5:12:28] in this, unlike what the zoo proposed last time. There is a sunset on that. So you guys probably

[5:12:35] would have amend this to put a sunset if you guys want on the ballot.

[5:12:38] But we already pay for parks and rent.

[5:12:43] That's already in the annual budget.

[5:12:47] No need and I'll take a page out of Mayor Graham's book to rub Peter to pay Paul.

[5:12:55] Peter is the people, Paul is the city.

[5:13:02] This will hurt everyone and how you guys say you always want to expense small businesses.

[5:13:09] They're to pay taxes up the ones who I know several of them, and they gripe to me because they know I come here.

[5:13:17] So if this is placed on the ballot, and if it passes which I hope it doesn't, our tax rate will go to 7.85%.

[5:13:31] But if the zoo tax also passes, it'll go to 8.01%.

[5:13:37] And with those two taxes, if passed, it would be 5.8% increase, not a 1% increase, 5.8% increase.

[5:13:51] Springs pays 8.2% in sales tax, but within all of, in Al Paso County, if you do that, it's 9.2% they are a lot richer than us.

[5:14:05] Council Rock, which is talked about quite a bit, which has a much better budget.

[5:14:11] It's not in the shans like us.

[5:14:13] A lot richer, high-paying jobs up there.

[5:14:16] It's 8.1%, greatly, which we're compared to quite a bit, 8.4%, if you include all of

[5:14:26] Wild County in unincorporated 8.835% this is all from Google.

[5:14:35] Denver 9.15% including Denver County 9.75% Boulder which were compared to again,

[5:14:46] One block richer though, kind of 9.195% including Boulder County, 9.585% Aurora, 8.5%

[5:15:00] 9%, including parts of Aurora, which is in parts of Adams County, 9.75%. But unlike Pueblo, you have 15 seconds, Mr. Martinez. Okay, I'll look against the other one because this wasn't running, so I didn't know. Thank you, Mr. President.

[5:15:19] Is there anyone else wishing to speak against this ordinance? Come on down.

[5:15:35] Good evening, council. My name is Larry Atensio. Every city that Mr. Martinez mentioned,

[5:15:42] It has a lot more money, there are a lot richer than we are.

[5:15:45] Everybody here knows that Pueblo is one of the poorest cities, one of the poorest counties in the state of Colorado.

[5:15:53] Each one of these ordinances is the quarter cent sales tax.

[5:15:56] If you put everyone on the ballot and everyone passes, that's almost $24 million that you're going to be taken out of the buckets of the city of Pueblo.

[5:16:06] If you believe the seven of you and administration believe that the people of

[5:16:11] Pueblo, your constituents are the problem and then you're asking them to fix the

[5:16:19] problem. You're way out of line what you're doing, fiduciary. I keep hearing that

[5:16:25] that word every time you turn around. Yeah, I'm fiduciary. I'm fiduciary. You're not

[5:16:30] taking care of fiduciary and worth a darn. If you put this on the ballot and

[5:16:35] And they pass, you're taking $24 million out of the pockets of the people of

[5:16:40] Pueblo, your constituents.

[5:16:42] And then you're going to be thinking about that $1 million speeding traffic lights, whatever

[5:16:51] they're going to be.

[5:16:52] That's going to be another million dollars, that's $25 million, $26 million that you're going

[5:16:57] to be taking out of the pockets out of the city of Pueblo.

[5:17:02] Think about it.

[5:17:03] But if you think your constituents can afford $26 million to put into a budget that you guys approve which you should be your fiduciary responsibility is to make sure that the services that you provide are equal to the amount of money that they give you, but you need to turn another $26 million?

[5:17:26] $1.00? You're in the wrong business people. And it's just another thing. You should know

[5:17:34] the answer to every question that somebody sitting here asks you and every question that

[5:17:42] each one of you ask, you should already know the answer to.

[5:17:47] Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to speak against this ordinance?

[5:17:51] comments. Seeing none, the hearings close. Is there a motion to approve?

[5:17:56] Motion to approve. Is there a second? Second, Councillor Dante. Any questions?

[5:18:02] Councillor Boston. Thank you, Mr. President. I would just like to make

[5:18:06] a statement about something that was said. I feel in my position that I was elected into,

[5:18:13] I should never deprive the voters their right to voice their opinions on something like this.

[5:18:17] I think this is much bigger than us on the dius.

[5:18:20] So when it comes to ballot measures, whether I'm for or against it, sitting in this seat,

[5:18:25] I'm not going to deprive the people their right to voice their opinion because we are elected

[5:18:30] to represent you, but not on every issue I think our opinions should be blind in the sand.

[5:18:35] So it doesn't mean I want to raise taxes, but I'm going to endorse putting all these on

[5:18:41] the ballot to allow the citizens to voice their concerns or their opinions on the matter.

[5:18:45] and I just wanted to say that.

[5:18:48] Any other questions, Councillor Latino?

[5:18:51] Oh, I just wanted to stay in the...

[5:18:53] My predecessor got up and left,

[5:18:55] and didn't give me an opportunity to talk to him about

[5:18:58] what he didn't do, and how much money he took

[5:19:01] when he left here from the city,

[5:19:04] into the thousands, okay?

[5:19:07] A severance package of $13,000, something like that.

[5:19:10] And that's sad.

[5:19:12] That's a guy that did nothing on the east side for 12 years.

[5:19:14] members, and I can guarantee you people will say that.

[5:19:18] Thank you.

[5:19:18] Senator Gomez, it's interesting that one of the only taxes I know of the citizens got

[5:19:23] together and decided to give the privilege of an economic development jogging on it.

[5:19:28] The time was PEDCO, and it was a half-cent sales tax, but I cannot support any raising of

[5:19:34] taxes.

[5:19:35] I have too many people in my district that can't afford food, that can't afford to pay

[5:19:42] their light bill.

[5:19:43] And we're going to say, oh, it's only 0.2, 3, 0, 0, 2, 5, it's only the point that's

[5:19:48] four different ways.

[5:19:49] Let's break it up and make it another shot at it.

[5:19:52] These attempts, we're telling you, I think even if you want to vote for, it's going to

[5:19:57] go to the ballot, it's going to, if it goes to the ballot,

[5:20:00] They're going to vote it down, but I don't think why we're going that way. Why don't we keep on doing this tax avenue where we're going to tax our constituency that have had it? They don't want any more taxes. Maybe you're not listening, but I am. Councillor Dante. I'm in agreement with Roger, but what I have to say is that even if I don't agree with these taxes, it's not my position to tell all my constituents

[5:20:28] months, you know, what they can do and what they can have.

[5:20:33] If they vote them on down, they vote them on down, but at least I'm going to give them

[5:20:37] the option to do that.

[5:20:40] Any other questions?

[5:20:43] Councillor Hernandez.

[5:20:44] Ms. Sykes, can you tell me with regards to the Parks and Recreation Department, is there

[5:20:49] a breakdown as to how this 4 to 6 million will be spent?

[5:20:54] There is not a specific breakdown other than it would be dedicated to parks and recreation purposes

[5:21:01] So it would have to be used specifically for parks and recreation was is parks and recreation currently underfunded?

[5:21:08] So it is currently underfunded and that's why programs had to be cut

[5:21:14] That was one of the things that the mayor was looking at cutting for this summer. Do you remember how much in dollar figures which cut from parks and recreation this year?

[5:21:24] 47,000.

[5:21:25] Okay, so we kept 47,000, but we're going to ask for $6 million in return.

[5:21:30] So that's not meant as a, please don't do that.

[5:21:34] It's a serious question, because what I want to know is if we get $6 million for the budget,

[5:21:40] and we only lost 47,000 from the last budget, where is the additional spending going to go?

[5:21:48] Sure.

[5:21:48] That's what I was trying to ask.

[5:21:49] So, no, I understand, because I know you sat in on the parks and

[5:21:54] rack and we talked about all of the delayed maintenance for

[5:21:59] the pools, for the parks, the only source of fun that they get

[5:22:04] right now for capital improvements within any parks is going to be for

[5:22:10] the lottery funds or the CTE funds.

[5:22:12] No general funds go to that, so I would envision being able to fully

[5:22:18] fund all of their requests when it comes to capital.

[5:22:22] Are there any other capital improvement programs thought about four parking

[5:22:27] recreation like for many centers?

[5:22:29] They submit.

[5:22:30] Yeah, they submit a whole slew every year of different.

[5:22:35] If you look in the capital five year plan, you can see all of the projects that they have

[5:22:39] submitted over the last five years that haven't been funded.

[5:22:42] So the council chose to fund any of those capital needs they could.

[5:22:46] You could increase the amount of programs, bring back the tennis program, have it more often, grow the programs.

[5:22:56] All of those things would fall under this specific need.

[5:23:02] Thank you.

[5:23:02] That's all I have.

[5:23:04] Councilor Grande.

[5:23:06] I have a question in relation to what he was asking.

[5:23:10] So if we see a need in, like, let me just put out what I'm thinking, if we see a need in all the parks, not just one park that they've got kitty, kitty our playgrounds, but they don't have the older like basketball goals for the older kids, they don't have any options in these neighborhood playgrounds.

[5:23:38] It would be an option for us to say this is what we want.

[5:23:42] Absolutely.

[5:23:43] Okay.

[5:23:44] Thank you.

[5:23:45] Any other questions?

[5:23:47] Call for the vote.

[5:23:59] Fails.

[5:23:59] 4-3.

[5:24:03] Mr. Clerk, R-5.

[5:24:08] R-5, an ordinance submitting to the eligible electors of the city of Pueblo at the coordinated

[5:24:14] election to be held November 3, 2026, a question relating to the imposition of an additional

[5:24:19] 1.25% sales and use tax for the roads and related infrastructure, committing to completing

[5:24:26] certain high priority projects within five years after implementation of the tax, repealing

[5:24:33] ordinance number 9217, the Pueblo Street repair utility enterprise, and adopting ordinance

[5:24:39] number 11241 to implement the tax, introduced August 10, 2026 by Councillor Salina Ruiz

[5:24:47] comments. Thank you for that report. Thank you president A.L.F. members of council

[5:24:52] Madame Mayor.

[5:24:56] This is an ordinance that would put on the ballot for the

[5:25:00] Voters to decide whether or not to approve a point to 5% sales and use tax increase that would be dedicated specifically to roads and related infrastructure purposes within the city. This ordinance also repeals the public street repair utility enterprise and it commits to completing certain high priority projects within the first five years after implementation of the tax.

[5:25:28] And it lists those dedicated roads and infrastructure within the ballot question.

[5:25:39] So part of this is the repeal of the street repair utility enterprise.

[5:25:45] It was created on December 16, 2017 by ordinance 9217.

[5:25:53] If you recall, that enterprise was billed on the water bills for households.

[5:26:04] And then on October 9th, 2018, Council set the initial monthly service fees.

[5:26:11] And then by later ordinance on November 22nd, 2021, City Council has suspended the payment

[5:26:17] of the monthly street repair utility enterprise, a service charge, and has suspended that service charge every year since then.

[5:26:26] And so this tax essentially would take the place of that utility enterprise.

[5:26:36] The roads that were identified in this are specific roads that were part of that 2022.

[5:26:47] street infrastructure study that Andrew Hayes spoke about at his work session, not too long ago.

[5:26:58] And they are listed in the background paper as well.

[5:27:03] And these projects have been identified as high priority, pursuant to the findings in that capital improvement plan.

[5:27:10] And that completes my staff report.

[5:27:12] I am happy to answer any questions that you may have.

[5:27:14] Thank you for that report. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone here wishing to speak in favor of this ordinance?

[5:27:20] Come on down turn

[5:27:32] your mic on please

[5:27:34] Betty Joe are gone. I'd like to speak on

[5:27:37] this ordinance and your support. I

[5:27:40] Worked for the city and the streets apartment for quite a long time. I

[5:27:46] Get daily calls about part-holes about

[5:27:51] this

[5:27:52] condition of our streets

[5:27:54] And I tell him over and over, we were doing the best we can with the manpower we have and the equipment we have and the material we have.

[5:28:04] I urge you guys to vote to put this on the ballot, let the public decide if they want this tax or not because they're the ones who's calling me on a daily basis saying, hey, when you're going to fix this, when you're going to fix this, when you're going to fix this.

[5:28:20] a lot of these roads should have been fixed long time ago, but because of our budget being so short we just don't do it.

[5:28:29] We just don't have the money, our street workers, they go out and they patch as much as they can over and over and over again.

[5:28:37] But I think it's something that when we voted to put that tax in, the utility tax back before we were suspended.

[5:28:47] Yes, it was $2 a month per residents.

[5:28:52] It was making a change.

[5:28:55] So I think it's important that you guys vote to allow this tax to go on there.

[5:29:00] I know nobody wants another tax.

[5:29:03] I don't want another tax, but I really think it would make the city of public look a lot better when we have these visitors come to town.

[5:29:11] And they're not hitting potholes or streets that are blown out because they're just not money to fix the streets.

[5:29:19] Thank you.

[5:29:20] Okay, is there anyone else wishing to speak in favor of this ordinance?

[5:29:26] Saying no, is there anyone wishing to speak against this ordinance?

[5:29:35] Two more times come up here.

[5:29:37] Albus Martinez again, so if this goes on the ballot and if it is approved, it'll be that saying 7.85%

[5:29:47] 80 sales tax withdrawal hurts small businesses, it'll be including with a zoo of 5.8% increase, not a 1% increase.

[5:29:56] So that misimension needs to be fixed at the top level.

[5:30:00] And I remember when Mayor Graham was on council, she voted twice to dismiss and vote down the fee on the water bill. I've asked it several times for this to come back to council or work session, and adjust it because it was not fair to a small business paying $25 per month, and Walmart, Target, other big block stores to pay $100. Make that make sense. The math is a math and right there. And I would say it should be different.

[5:30:29] for gas station and for Walmart, two different ones.

[5:30:38] And then with the residential, it was $3, make it $350 or $4, or whatever.

[5:30:45] Yes, we hate that, it was only bringing in about $2.5 million.

[5:30:48] If we adjust it, make Walmart, Target, King Super's Safeway pay $500 more.

[5:30:55] We could do that map like that.

[5:30:58] So we could probably give $4 million, $5 million, which would almost equate this up to $6 million.

[5:31:04] It should not be paid by the tax payers with this.

[5:31:08] And there was a list of about 14 roads and only five of them would get paid less amount of school that's less than 50%.

[5:31:16] But any who to go back to these taxes, again, this has no sunset whatsoever, it's a forever tax, unless it goes back to the ballot.

[5:31:23] Aura, 8.5% within incorporated Adams County, which is part of Aura, it's 9.75% and they do have tax ballot measures on there, but they have a sunset, parks and wrecks, 30-year sunset, it's a 0.129% for fire in 911 operation, it's a 0.064% again, 30-year sunset.

[5:31:46] And for roads, bridge, repair, et cetera, almost like this one, it's 0.132%.

[5:31:53] Yes, I know that they're rich up there, they have, what, 400,000 people.

[5:31:58] We have 110,000, so it's four times bigger, four columns, 8.3% tax.

[5:32:04] Veil with 9.5% within Eagle County of Veil right there, 11.9%.

[5:32:09] Of course, that's an expensive place to live.

[5:32:14] Aspen, another expensive mountain place.

[5:32:16] 10.35% and Pick and County is right there.

[5:32:19] It's 10.65%.

[5:32:21] And Tensil said earlier, we are the poorest city

[5:32:26] with 25,000 population or more.

[5:32:30] And no, springs has a 9% poverty level.

[5:32:34] Castle Rock, 3.8%.

[5:32:36] Greeley, 15.1.

[5:32:38] Denver, 11.2.

[5:32:40] Boulder is iffy right here with the numbers.

[5:32:43] 21.5% Aurora.

[5:32:45] All right, 11.9% property level, four columns, 15.8, veil, again, high mountain area, low property, 6.5%, 10.6% in Aspen, again, we don't know where that place is.

[5:32:59] But right here, not everyone ranks in the big dough, $150,000 or more.

[5:33:05] Not everyone could afford to live downtown, not everyone could afford to drive a Mercedes or Range Rover.

[5:33:12] or not everyone was born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

[5:33:17] And I know, Ms. Dante said this earlier, but I don't want to hear.

[5:33:21] Let the constituents vote on this.

[5:33:24] How many emails have you guys got to put these tax on ballot?

[5:33:27] How many phone calls?

[5:33:28] How many runnings in the store?

[5:33:30] Probably zero.

[5:33:32] Produce that.

[5:33:34] As many times as I've been coming up here, almost nine years.

[5:33:37] For public form, I have not heard one single person say we need a tax for

[5:33:42] this or we need a tax for that zero during public forum now it gets tossed around every

[5:33:51] time and Mr. Gomez at this earlier for this your duty responsibility with your oath of

[5:33:57] office to the taxpayers that elected you to this seat we are your boss although some of

[5:34:04] you guys live out my district I would entertain a phone call email you guys all have my phone

[5:34:09] number. Let's sit down. I don't drink coffee, but I'll drink a cup of tea.

[5:34:14] Let's repeat this and vote this down. This isn't the way to do it.

[5:34:20] Let's redo this street utility fee, put it on a work session within the next two months

[5:34:26] because this would have to get voted on in November or December.

[5:34:30] Change the amount for the big box stores and the gas stations, thank you.

[5:34:35] Right on time.

[5:34:35] Is there anyone else wishing to speak against this ordinance?

[5:34:38] Saying none.

[5:34:39] The area is closed.

[5:34:40] Is there a motion to approve?

[5:34:42] Motion to approve.

[5:34:42] Councillor Gomez.

[5:34:43] Is there a second?

[5:34:44] Second.

[5:34:45] Councillor Dante.

[5:34:47] Any questions?

[5:34:49] Let's call for the vote.

[5:34:51] I have a question.

[5:34:52] Councillor Dante.

[5:34:54] Okay.

[5:34:56] Can you tell me if the enterprise, I can't-

[5:35:00] Has money in it, or is it closed? I believe it has money in it. It is not closed. Do you know how much? I do not know the exact amount. The money in there is for existing projects, so not capitalists that I gave you. It's appropriated. Yes. Okay. That's what I mean. No.

[5:35:25] Well, I do have a few things to say.

[5:35:29] I was driving to City Hall today and I'm looking at the roads and these roads have been

[5:35:37] patched and they're cracks and so they've been patched but they're breaking open.

[5:35:44] So they're still cracked.

[5:35:47] We need road repair and I really feel that the constituents need to be able to vote on

[5:35:57] On this also, when I was campaigning, this was one of the main things between this, road repair and homelessness.

[5:36:05] Those were the two things that they wanted.

[5:36:08] And so, I really believe this should go on the ballot.

[5:36:11] Thank you.

[5:36:13] Councillor Gomez.

[5:36:14] I don't think it matters if it goes on the ballot or not.

[5:36:17] I think what we're not looking at is there a possibility, priorities that should have been addressed,

[5:36:21] or the mismanagement of government of the budget? Is that a possibility? Not in

[5:36:26] public law. I'm just telling you, what message are we not getting? They do not want taxes here.

[5:36:34] I can't support this. I don't understand why we're doing this.

[5:36:38] Councillor Hernandez.

[5:36:39] How long has the road utility been suspended?

[5:36:42] The road utility has been suspended since 2021.

[5:36:46] So it's about what, four years, then four full years?

[5:36:49] five.

[5:36:50] Five.

[5:36:51] Five, four years.

[5:36:51] So that would have been, I would have been about 12 million.

[5:36:56] So obviously I wasn't around here that what was the rationale behind suspending that?

[5:37:02] So the reason we have to suspend it is because the fee has to be rationally related to the expenses.

[5:37:09] That's not the reason.

[5:37:10] What was suspended though?

[5:37:12] It was suspended because the ballot measure for revenue for roads past for de-brucing.

[5:37:17] So part of the previous administration, when they passed the ballot measure to de-brews,

[5:37:23] they wanted to use $5 million of the de-brews funds a year in order to pay roads.

[5:37:30] At the time it was presented to the City Council, if we were taking in money hand over fist,

[5:37:35] because we were de-brewsing and not returning money back to the citizens.

[5:37:39] That they felt that they could put a moratorium on collecting that $3 because we were collecting people's returns.

[5:37:47] Okay, so we're talking about $2.5 million a year that we're, that we were collecting.

[5:37:52] Yeah, right.

[5:37:52] But in order to do the enterprise, we have to do a study in order to come up with the fee.

[5:37:58] Council arbitrarily set the fee last time.

[5:38:00] We can't arbitrarily set the fee.

[5:38:02] It has to be reasonably related to the service being provided by the enterprise.

[5:38:09] The people being collected from, right?

[5:38:10] Yes.

[5:38:10] And so when the study has come before Council to approve the study, Council has voted down the cost to do the study.

[5:38:21] So that is the other reason why we don't have the enterprise fee.

[5:38:25] Thank you. Any other questions?

[5:38:34] We have to wait for Councillor Latino or not.

[5:38:55] Okay, let's call for the vote.

[5:39:05] Fails, four to three.

[5:39:10] Mr. Clerk, item R6.

[5:39:15] Item R6, an ordinance submitting to the eligible electors of the city of Pueblo, Colorado,

[5:39:20] at the coordinated election to be held on November 3rd, 2026.

[5:39:24] A question related to the imposition of an additional 1.25% sales and use tax rate for

[5:39:31] for non-profit entities and key contractual entities with priority given to the contractional obligations O to key contractual entities and the adoption of ordinance number 1-1-2-4-2 to implement the tax introduced August 10th, 2026 by Councillor Selina Ruiz-Gomez.

[5:39:50] Thank you, Mr. Clark.

[5:39:51] We have staff report.

[5:39:52] Thank you, President A.L.F. members of Council, Madam Mayor.

[5:39:55] The City of Pueblo Presently imposes the sales and use tax three to three and

[5:40:02] That rate consists of 3% base rate together with voter-approved increments, dedicated capital improvement projects and police personnel and operating needs. The city does not presently have a dedicated revenue stream for payments to nonprofit entities and non-departmental, what I'll call key contractual entities. Such expenditures are presently supported through the general fund and through limited fees and charges. The proposed ordinance refers to the voters a question of whether to impose an additional

[5:40:29] 1.4% sales and use tax rate, the revenues from which would be deposited in a dedicated nonprofit and key contractual entities, sales and use tax fund, and use solely to make payments to key contractual entities and nonprofit entities for the purposes within the city.

[5:40:46] Moneys and the fund would be first applied to the contractual obligation of the city owes to key contractual entities and the balance appropriated by the City Council to nonprofit entities under criteria the City Council would establish.

[5:40:58] Key contractual entities are those partners with which the city contracts to maintain city property and provide public services

[5:41:06] such as the Humane Society the Pike speak region you'll a mountain park and the nature center so

[5:41:12] This is one

[5:41:14] City council has talked about a lot about non-departmentals is what we call them

[5:41:19] during budget season

[5:41:22] When we started putting this together, I talked to finance and

[5:41:26] non-departmental covers a lot of different things in the finance world.

[5:41:31] And so we came up with key contractual entities as a defined term to refer to those non-departmentals that provide those key services for the city.

[5:41:42] And that term is defined in the ordinance to be those entities.

[5:41:47] We don't name them specifically, but we define them as those entities that provide those key services.

[5:41:55] And so, that concludes my staff report, and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

[5:42:01] Thank you for that report.

[5:42:02] This is a public hearing, is there anyone here wishing to speak in favor of this ordinance?

[5:42:07] Saying none, is there anyone here wishing to speak against this ordinance?

[5:42:10] You got a minute, 20.

[5:42:16] Avis Martinez again, so I would want to know how many other cities are having

[5:42:22] a slush fund from the taxpayers to pay for nonprofits that, when if this goes to the ballot

[5:42:29] and we and the voters approve it, then we're not going to get anything out of it by donating

[5:42:37] And I think it sounds illegal for the contractional ones to get priority over other non-profits to me that that doesn't make any sense.

[5:42:47] But again, same numbers.

[5:42:49] But I know Mr. A. Liff brought up Black Hills.

[5:42:52] That's going to tax this all.

[5:42:54] Here's this real quick to take up some of my five minutes from last year, two years ago, my bad.

[5:43:01] If it wants to play.

[5:43:07] Yeah, it's not going to play right now.

[5:43:09] But any who, we were against the tax, well, rate hike right there because we couldn't afford it.

[5:43:17] We know we are a poor city.

[5:43:20] We can't fix that right now.

[5:43:21] That's why we need other people to bring a business in here like Project Falcon.

[5:43:27] But any who, please do what you guys just did on the prior two ordinances.

[5:43:34] because I haven't heard one person come up here saying nonprofits need more taxpayer dollars via tax.

[5:43:43] I've never heard any other city and any other state, any other state, so I'm not saying that there isn't a tax for nonprofits.

[5:43:50] But this one is upside down inside out.

[5:43:54] This is probably the most ridiculous tax that I ever heard of.

[5:43:59] Are we going to tax people to walk across the street, but let me see if this plays again.

[5:44:04] and I probably have the volume off, but hopefully I could play it.

[5:44:10] We just kind of fought this.

[5:44:12] You know it.

[5:44:13] I know it.

[5:44:14] The people know it.

[5:44:15] And we see how this photo is going.

[5:44:19] Please make it 70.

[5:44:21] Unless if you guys could produce any emails that you guys have without a

[5:44:26] Kora saying from Joe Schmoh to Joe Latino or Roger Gomez or Miss Dante or Mr. Hernandez or whoever would you guys vote in favor of this tax or the people could vote on it?

[5:44:40] We don't have it.

[5:44:43] I don't think that you guys have many.

[5:44:47] It's ridiculous and this was a hidden agenda by the mayor.

[5:44:51] She never campaigned on taxes.

[5:44:53] We all campaigned on safety, every one of us, in this

[5:45:00] This would take away from safety. And how Mr. Tensei always says, think bigger, web low. What I'd like to tell him is just think. And four of you guys are really thinking tonight. I'm surprised that I'm agreeing with Mr. Gomez. Love you, though. I love all you guys, so I'll be back on the next one. Is there anyone else wishing to speak against this ordinance? Saying none, the hearing is closed. Is there a motion to approve?

[5:45:27] Councillor Gomes, is there a second? Second.

[5:45:30] Councillor Dante, any questions? Councillor Dante.

[5:45:37] This is too wordy. I have one suggestion. Take the word contractual out of the third line

[5:45:45] from the bottom and it would sound a lot better as if it passes.

[5:45:54] Did you understand what I was

[5:45:55] saying?

[5:45:55] So you want key contractual entity is too wordy?

[5:46:01] No, there's just one word.

[5:46:04] In the ballot or in the.

[5:46:07] In the subject line.

[5:46:09] In the subject ordinance, which is pretty much the same as the actual ballot.

[5:46:14] It says on the third line it starts with contractual obligations owed to key contractual entities.

[5:46:21] Yeah, that first contractual in that line if you take that out it would sound a lot better. Okay. All right any other questions?

[5:46:32] Let's call for the vote.

[5:46:40] Fails four to three.

[5:46:43] Madam Clerk, Mr. Clerk, it's late.

[5:46:47] Mr. Clerk, item R7,

[5:46:53] item R7, an ordinance submitting to the eligible electors of the City of Pueblo, Colorado,

[5:46:58] at the coordinated election to be held November 3, 2026, a question related to the imposition

[5:47:03] of an additional 1.25% sales and use tax, right, for the Department of Fire and Technology

[5:47:10] related to public safety purposes and the adoption of an ordinance number 11243 to implement

[5:47:16] the tax. Introduced August 10, 2026 by Councillor Salina Ruiz-Gumman.

[5:47:22] Thank you, Mr. Clark. We have a staff report.

[5:47:24] Yes, thank you, President Nailiff, members of the Council, Madam Mayor.

[5:47:28] This is a background to approve a quarter percent sales tax increase as stated before.

[5:47:35] The city does not presently have a dedicated revenue stream for the Department of Fire or

[5:47:40] technology related to public safety.

[5:47:43] Such expenditures are presently supported through the general fund and through limited fees and charges.

[5:47:48] The Department of Fire strives to comply with the National Fire Protection Agency, which

[5:47:54] which provides that frontline equipment should be in reserve status after 15 years due to technology and safety.

[5:48:00] One apparatus costs more than $1.2 million and lead time to build it is two years.

[5:48:08] Currently, the department has three frontline vehicles older than 15 years that need to be replaced.

[5:48:13] Once the outdated fleet vehicles are replaced, the department will need to replace one apparatus per year to maintain standards.

[5:48:20] Additionally, the department must properly manage aging equipment on every apparatus to keep it updated and reliable.

[5:48:27] Department spends an average of $150,000 annually to maintain aging equipment.

[5:48:32] Outdated equipment and apparatus impacts response times which directly impact accreditation and

[5:48:39] potential insurance rates for the community.

[5:48:42] These are some examples of how the money could be used to voters approve the tax.

[5:48:45] Dedicated tax revenue will allow the Department to address equipment and apparatus needs,

[5:48:50] maintain its accreditation and improve overall service to the community.

[5:48:54] Public safety also depends greatly on technological solutions and equipment,

[5:49:00] including portable and mobile radios for emergency communication.

[5:49:04] Medical devices such as cardiac heart monitors and controlled substance storage,

[5:49:10] Radio communication towers, drones for fire response as well as in-car computers, printers, and modems.

[5:49:17] Software application support, fire call services, automated dispatch systems at each station,

[5:49:23] record management, medical response, fire training, and scheduling, and

[5:49:27] rostering among other tasks.

[5:49:29] Recently, the fire department identified the need to modernize their wild land fire response efforts by incorporating drones and

[5:49:36] systems that detect fires and hot spots improving early action along rivers, plains, and within our community.

[5:49:42] Maintaining the systems with up to date technology is expensive for the city, but it is an absolute necessity to keep our community safe.

[5:49:49] So the proposed ordinance refers to the voters, the question of whether to improve impose an additional one quarter percent sales and use tax that concludes my staff.

[5:50:00] Any other report? I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you for that report. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone here wishing to speak in favor of this ordinance?

[5:50:11] Say none. This hearing is now closed. No. Is there anyone here wishing to speak against this ordinance? Come on down. I was Martinez for the final time tonight. Everybody in the chat is probably saying, well, who? So I'm on the fence on this one. Public safety, and I have the most respect for cheap,

[5:50:34] So if we could amend this to say a five-year sunset and we all know public safety is number one, and of course the Fire Department probably needs it more than the other ones.

[5:50:48] So if one of you guys can amend it, say a five-year sunset, then more people might vote for it if it goes to the ballot.

[5:50:56] I want to try and play this again.

[5:50:58] can acknowledge yesterday, Black Hills provides electricity to some of the poorest communities in Colorado and charges the highest electric rates in our city.

[5:51:08] Point of order, Mr. Martinez, what is that?

[5:51:11] It's when, and you guys were talking about the Black Hills energy rate that you guys were against it because we are one of the poorest cities, those are her exact words, almost two years ago.

[5:51:24] Yeah, we get that.

[5:51:25] So amend this to say a five-year sunset, and I may or may not vote for it, and I know plenty of firefighters that they're all wonderful because they all have a wonderful boss in this uber.

[5:51:43] So this will be on your guys' conscience to vote this up or both this down.

[5:51:50] And we have people that say that they are conservatives, but according to this vote tonight

[5:51:58] it seems that they're opposite.

[5:52:00] So I'll leave you by saying don't tread on me.

[5:52:05] Thank you.

[5:52:06] Is there anyone else wishing to speak against this ordinance, saying none the hearings closed

[5:52:11] as their motion to approve?

[5:52:13] Councillor Gomez.

[5:52:14] Is there a second?

[5:52:16] Councillor Latino.

[5:52:17] Any questions?

[5:52:18] Yep.

[5:52:19] Councillor Gomez.

[5:52:20] I'm just trying to figure out how I'm logically going to explain this to my constituency.

[5:52:23] That's been so opposed to taxes.

[5:52:25] I'm just maybe going to give me an answer mark.

[5:52:27] I mean, I don't understand why we're supporting any of these taxes.

[5:52:31] I'm just curious.

[5:52:32] Is there any advice or something you can pass on to me how I can explain this?

[5:52:37] No.

[5:52:38] Good.

[5:52:38] Because we haven't passed any of them.

[5:52:41] Thank you.

[5:52:46] Is that it?

[5:52:46] Yep.

[5:52:47] Okay.

[5:52:47] Any other questions?

[5:52:49] Me.

[5:52:50] Councillor Gontay.

[5:52:51] Of course me.

[5:52:53] What?

[5:52:54] I just want to say that I think this is a very important tax to pass due to the fact that

[5:53:02] we in Pueblo could end up just like us and acres and for us not to have the equipment to

[5:53:12] put it out would be a really bad thing and I know nobody wants taxes but sometimes you

[5:53:18] just need to have something you don't like for your safety. Thank you.

[5:53:27] Councillor Gomez, I'm good. Thank you. No? Thank you.

[5:53:31] If I had a $20 bill for every time Mr. Martinez came up and told us that we need to send it

[5:53:39] back to the voters. I'd have a lot of money, a lot of money. So, there is a question

[5:53:47] on conservatives. I have never, ever, supported attacks ever, ever in my life, ever. But I

[5:53:55] voted to move these forward the three previous times. Only because City Council cannot impose

[5:54:07] We don't have that power to impose a tax, but does the community have a right to decide whether they want to tax themselves or not?

[5:54:17] I think so, but we're past that, but I just wanted to clarify when you talk about my conservatism, I've never, ever one time, supported a tax increase.

[5:54:31] But I've always supported the community's right to make a decision on something that I can't make a decision on.

[5:54:38] So, that's how come I vote yes.

[5:54:43] I just want to thank the council people who did support these.

[5:54:48] These took a long time from my staff to be able to put together.

[5:54:52] We took a lot of feedback from city council and from the community on things that they wanted to see forward.

[5:54:57] and to not...

[5:55:00] Allow this to pass to the voters. What I will say is your phones will be ringing because every time somebody calls my office now and says, why isn't this being paved? Why aren't we funding the zoo? Why aren't we funding HSPR, the additional funds that they asked for the city this year? Because we don't have the money. And city council had the opportunity to put it to the voters tonight to allow the voters to make those decisions.

[5:55:28] do they want the tennis programs, do they want the pools open next year?

[5:55:33] So I appreciate you, President Alif, and your stance tonight on at least letting the,

[5:55:41] what he said, and also letting the taxpayers be able to make the decisions on how their

[5:55:48] dollars are going to be spent in the next coming years.

[5:55:51] Thank you.

[5:56:03] I'm not going to make a vote on something, so I don't want taxes either, but I always think you should have a dog in the fight to say what you want.

[5:56:15] All right, let's call for the vote.

[5:56:27] It passes five to two.

[5:56:33] If there's anybody at home watching, I know there's probably four or five people.

[5:56:37] Remember that shelter pets make the best pets.

[5:56:42] And please, whatever you do, if you get a pet, go to HSPPR, go to Pause for Life, go to

[5:56:56] those pets. In span, neuter your pets and put one of them tags in them so we can find

[5:57:00] them if they get lost. And with that, we are now a recording

[5:57:13] soft.

City Council Regular Session

Agenda

Transcript