[0:15] Good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for coming to the Thank you for coming to the City Council special meeting. City Council special meeting. Um, I'd like now to call for Um, I'd like now to call for public comment. We have one public comment. We have one public comment. John James. public comment. John James. Good evening or good afternoon.

[0:47] Good evening or good afternoon. Council members, mayor and city Council members, mayor and city staff, I want to address the staff, I want to address the concerns raised about concerns raised about warehouses. Um, modernizing warehouses. Um, modernizing existing logistics facilities. existing logistics facilities.

[1:00] I understand the emotion and I understand the emotion and passion behind the not in my passion behind the not in my backyard, but we should backyard, but we should evaluate these issues through evaluate these issues through the lens of the city's climate. the lens of the city's climate. Uh, climate action and Uh, climate action and sustainability plan.

[1:09] The sustainability plan. The transportation element of the transportation element of the plan is clear reduce total plan is clear reduce total miles traveled, reduce miles traveled, reduce emissions per trip, and move emissions per trip, and move people more efficiently. people more efficiently.

[1:23] Transit villages multimodal Transit villages multimodal connections and better connections and better infrastructures all serve one infrastructures all serve one purpose moving people so we purpose moving people so we don't generate unnecessary don't generate unnecessary vehicle miles. Modern logistics vehicle miles. Modern logistics follows the exact same follows the exact same principle. Warehouses are principle. Warehouses are simply transit stations for simply transit stations for goods.

[1:36] They are the transfer goods. They are the transfer hubs that allow products to hubs that allow products to move efficiently through the move efficiently through the region. Just as a bus and rail region.

[1:47] Just as a bus and rail transit stations allow people transit stations allow people to move efficiently when to move efficiently when logistics facilities are pushed logistics facilities are pushed farther away from Redlands, farther away from Redlands, trucks must drive more miles to trucks must drive more miles to deliver the same goods to the deliver the same goods to the same residence. That increases same residence.

[1:57] That increases emissions and congestion and emissions and congestion and directly contradicts the directly contradicts the climate action Plans climate action Plans transportation strategy. transportation strategy. Modernizing existing warehouses Modernizing existing warehouses actually reduce emissions. actually reduce emissions.

[2:13] Upgrades typically include Upgrades typically include solar roofs, EV charging, LED solar roofs, EV charging, LED lighting, better insulation, lighting, better insulation, stormwater improvements, and stormwater improvements, and routing systems that actually routing systems that actually minimize idling and shorten the minimize idling and shorten the delivery paths, preventing delivery paths, preventing modernization forces. Older, modernization forces. Older, less efficient buildings to less efficient buildings to remain in use. Again, the remain in use. Again, the opposite of sustainability. opposite of sustainability.

[2:28] There's also an economic There's also an economic dimension. In the 1990s, I dimension. In the 1990s, I served as president of a served as president of a manufacturing company here in manufacturing company here in Redlands. We produced goods Redlands.

[2:37] We produced goods that got sold worldwide in our that got sold worldwide in our ability to distribute those ability to distribute those products efficiently, allowed products efficiently, allowed us to pay our employees, bring us to pay our employees, bring outside dollars into Redlands outside dollars into Redlands and strengthen the local and strengthen the local economy. Logistics is not economy. Logistics is not abstract. It is the abstract.

[2:50] It is the infrastructure that lets local infrastructure that lets local businesses participate in the businesses participate in the global marketplace. And a global marketplace. And a practical reminder, every time practical reminder, every time a resident clicks the buy a resident clicks the buy button for food, clothing, button for food, clothing, medication or everyday medication or everyday necessities, they are,

[3:02] necessities, they are, depending on the very logistics depending on the very logistics transit network that they transit network that they oppose. If if we make the oppose. If if we make the network less efficient, network less efficient, deliveries take longer, deliveries take longer, shipping costs rise and shipping costs rise and emissions increase again,

[3:13] emissions increase again, transit villages move people transit villages move people efficiently, warehouses move efficiently, warehouses move goods efficiently. Both reduce goods efficiently. Both reduce miles traveled, both reduce miles traveled, both reduce emissions, and both align with emissions, and both align with the climate action and the climate action and Sustainability plan. Thank you.

[3:27] Sustainability plan. Thank you. I don't have any other speaker I don't have any other speaker slips here in front of me. I slips here in front of me. I don't see anybody on zoom. So don't see anybody on zoom.

[3:34] So we'll go to our next item on we'll go to our next item on our agenda, which is C1. This our agenda, which is C1. This is a discussion and possible is a discussion and possible action regarding the FY 2027 action regarding the FY 2027 and FY 2028 budget updates. Uh, and FY 2028 budget updates.

[3:46] Uh, City Manager Charlie Dugan and City Manager Charlie Dugan and Finance Director Garland. Finance Director Garland. Good evening. Council members. Good evening. Council members.

[4:03] So we're going to do a brief, So we're going to do a brief, um, explanation of kind of how um, explanation of kind of how we got here and then, uh, talk we got here and then, uh, talk about what, uh, our recommended about what, uh, our recommended changes are to the, uh, fiscal changes are to the, uh, fiscal year 27 budget and then also year 27 budget and then also talk a little bit about, uh, talk a little bit about, uh, where we're going, uh, leading

[4:14] where we're going, uh, leading up to the next two year budget up to the next two year budget and next six year outlook, uh, and next six year outlook, uh, that we take when we do that. that we take when we do that.

[4:29] So going into creating the 2728 So going into creating the 2728 budget, uh, we we did face, uh, budget, uh, we we did face, uh, you know, the usual things as, you know, the usual things as, uh, equipment contracts, uh, uh, equipment contracts, uh, materials and supplies becoming materials and supplies becoming more expensive.

[4:44] Uh, there has more expensive. Uh, there has been inflation. Uh, we had been inflation. Uh, we had targeted reductions, uh, and targeted reductions, uh, and looked at trying to make the looked at trying to make the least impactful changes, uh, to least impactful changes, uh, to that recommended budget as much

[4:57] that recommended budget as much as possible. And so what we as possible. And so what we normally do is we tell the normally do is we tell the department, um, here's assume department, um, here's assume you have this much money, put you have this much money, put together your budget.

[5:08] Uh, is it together your budget. Uh, is it covering all the basic services covering all the basic services and the, um, things that we say and the, um, things that we say are core to what you're are core to what you're department provides, and then department provides, and then also, what would you spend if

[5:20] also, what would you spend if we had some extra money? So we had some extra money? So that's what we call our that's what we call our supplemental items. And so we supplemental items. And so we put that together. Uh, looking put that together.

[5:30] Uh, looking at what normal growth would at what normal growth would have been both for expenditures have been both for expenditures and revenue. Uh, we set our and revenue. Uh, we set our targets, but we also backed it targets, but we also backed it off about $4 million. Uh, off about $4 million.

[5:41] Uh, looking at we made some changes looking at we made some changes to the 26, uh, fiscal year to the 26, uh, fiscal year budget, but mostly the 27 and budget, but mostly the 27 and 28 years. We we reduced that by 28 years. We we reduced that by about $4 million.

[5:52] Um, part of about $4 million. Um, part of partly the reason was when you partly the reason was when you looked at just what our looked at just what our estimated revenue was, what our estimated revenue was, what our estimated inflation estimated inflation expenditures were. We weren't expenditures were. We weren't doing too bad.

[6:00] But then when doing too bad. But then when you add debt service, uh, for a you add debt service, uh, for a police building, a fire station police building, a fire station and some improvements to and some improvements to library infrastructure, uh, we library infrastructure, uh, we had to come up with that.

[6:10] We had to come up with that. We also were negotiating nine also were negotiating nine bargaining unit contracts. Uh, bargaining unit contracts. Uh, we knew there was going to need we knew there was going to need to be some money for that. to be some money for that.

[6:19] That's what led us to the, uh, That's what led us to the, uh, $4 million reduction. Uh, the $4 million reduction. Uh, the budget that was approved on budget that was approved on June 16th did not include all June 16th did not include all the MoU negotiations since they the MoU negotiations since they had not been finalized yet.

[6:32] And had not been finalized yet. And so that's really the reason so that's really the reason we're here tonight, is to go we're here tonight, is to go ahead and adjust the 27 budget. ahead and adjust the 27 budget. Now that those negotiations are Now that those negotiations are done.

[6:45] So we have seen overall, done. So we have seen overall, the economy has slowed down. the economy has slowed down. Uh, we saw some pretty healthy Uh, we saw some pretty healthy jumps in property tax over the jumps in property tax over the last few years. That's starting last few years. That's starting to level off.

[6:57] Uh, we, you know, to level off. Uh, we, you know, are fully utilizing the measure are fully utilizing the measure T money and we report multiple T money and we report multiple times during the year on times during the year on measure T spending. And we also measure T spending.

[7:07] And we also have a measure t committee that have a measure t committee that reviews the budgeting and also reviews the budgeting and also how we actually spent the how we actually spent the money, because sometimes money, because sometimes budgets change. And, uh, keep budgets change.

[7:19] And, uh, keep coming back from reporting that coming back from reporting that we're spending money according we're spending money according to what the council and the to what the council and the citizens were told when measure citizens were told when measure T was passed, um, we, we really T was passed, um, we, we really don't know what's going to don't know what's going to happen to the economy.

[7:30] Years happen to the economy. Years ago, they said there was a 100% ago, they said there was a 100% chance of recession and it chance of recession and it never came. So, uh, we're not never came. So, uh, we're not necessarily building things for necessarily building things for recession.

[7:40] Uh, except for we're recession. Uh, except for we're just kind of, uh, planning on just kind of, uh, planning on slower growth than we've slower growth than we've experienced. So the departments experienced.

[7:55] So the departments did reprioritize, uh, and we'll did reprioritize, uh, and we'll talk about the cuts that were talk about the cuts that were made to get the $4 million and made to get the $4 million and into this current budget. Uh, into this current budget. Uh, we then, uh, have come back and we then, uh, have come back and there's another $1.2 million there's another $1.

[8:07] 2 million that we have to talk about this that we have to talk about this evening. Uh, mentioned we have evening. Uh, mentioned we have the police department building the police department building station 264, the library station 264, the library cooling tower. Uh, we are cooling tower.

[8:21] Uh, we are working presently on the working presently on the settlement with the state, settlement with the state, which would include a us which would include a us acquiring the Good Night Inn. acquiring the Good Night Inn. And that property. Uh, we do And that property.

[8:32] Uh, we do have, um, additional costs for have, um, additional costs for the Museum of Redlands that the Museum of Redlands that we're taking on. And, uh, the we're taking on. And, uh, the mayor's so you've seen this mayor's so you've seen this kind of representation in the kind of representation in the past where we have revenues, past where we have revenues, expenditures.

[8:46] Uh, and then expenditures. Uh, and then really, the green row that has really, the green row that has the fund balance is what we the fund balance is what we really keep an eye on. How much really keep an eye on.

[8:54] How much are we spending? What are the are we spending? What are the great things we're spending it great things we're spending it on, and what's left over at the on, and what's left over at the end to make sure we're being end to make sure we're being fiscally responsible? So, as fiscally responsible? So, as you can see, in fiscal year you can see, in fiscal year 2029, we have a $4.

[9:06] 5 million 2029, we have a $4.5 million reduction planned that would reduction planned that would carry forward, uh, in future carry forward, uh, in future budget years. Because right now budget years.

[9:16] Because right now we do have a very healthy fund we do have a very healthy fund balance, but we're drawing that balance, but we're drawing that down over time. Uh, down over time. Uh, unfortunately, that is a well unfortunately, that is a well that we cannot go to forever. that we cannot go to forever.

[9:26] And so we need to, uh, stem And so we need to, uh, stem that spending sometime in the that spending sometime in the future. And so we're using it future. And so we're using it for, um, trying to use it as for, um, trying to use it as much as possible for one time much as possible for one time expenditures. However, as you expenditures.

[9:37] However, as you can see, uh, we're using it for can see, uh, we're using it for about $4.5 million of about $4.5 million of reoccurring expenditures. And reoccurring expenditures. And that's why we need the that's why we need the reduction coming in future reduction coming in future years. And so, um, we've set years.

[9:49] And so, um, we've set kind of a target for of 20 kind of a target for of 20 million when I've talked about million when I've talked about it, if you actually look at the it, if you actually look at the way, uh, recommendations, about way, uh, recommendations, about 17% of general fund 17% of general fund expenditures, or about 25 expenditures, or about 25 million, almost 26 million

[10:03] million, almost 26 million would be considered what we would be considered what we should have in our our fund should have in our our fund balance. Um, really anywhere balance. Um, really anywhere between, um, 18 to 25. I'm between, um, 18 to 25.

[10:15] I'm comfortable with, as far as you comfortable with, as far as you know, as long as it's not know, as long as it's not heading down, if it goes below heading down, if it goes below 18, then I'm really looking at 18, then I'm really looking at it starts getting below 16. I it starts getting below 16.

[10:22] I think we really need to make think we really need to make adjustments. Uh, but having a adjustments. Uh, but having a fund balance, there is also one fund balance, there is also one of our other reserve areas. of our other reserve areas.

[10:30] It's one of those things where It's one of those things where something's going to break that something's going to break that we don't expect to right now. we don't expect to right now. And it could be $1 million air And it could be $1 million air conditioning system. It could conditioning system.

[10:39] It could be, um, a fire truck that, you be, um, a fire truck that, you know, has I mean, we had know, has I mean, we had someone run into a fire truck someone run into a fire truck on the freeway last year. I on the freeway last year. I think it was. And so you never think it was. And so you never know what's going to happen.

[10:46] know what's going to happen. And so it's it's a bit of a And so it's it's a bit of a rainy day fund. Uh, and I think rainy day fund. Uh, and I think of it like our checking of it like our checking account.

[10:54] We have a a reserve account. We have a a reserve amount in our checking account. amount in our checking account. And then we also have a savings And then we also have a savings account that has reserves that account that has reserves that we don't touch except for we don't touch except for natural disasters or severe

[11:03] natural disasters or severe economic times. So just to kind economic times. So just to kind of frame all of this going into of frame all of this going into the building of the 2728 the building of the 2728 budget, we knew we needed some budget, we knew we needed some reductions.

[11:20] We knew it early reductions. We knew it early enough to make some changes to enough to make some changes to the fiscal year 26 budget. And the fiscal year 26 budget. And so that's represented in the so that's represented in the $435,000 number. And then the $435,000 number.

[11:32] And then the changes we made to 27 and 28 by changes we made to 27 and 28 by taking out what we would have taking out what we would have budgeted in normal growth, but budgeted in normal growth, but knowing that we had to slow knowing that we had to slow down our our expenditures, uh, down our our expenditures, uh, we brought that down.

[11:42] And it we brought that down. And it comes to almost 4 million, $3.8 comes to almost 4 million, $3.8 million. Um, as you can see, million. Um, as you can see, some of the things here, uh, some of the things here, uh, $495,000 in contract code $495,000 in contract code enforcement services, reducing

[11:54] enforcement services, reducing tree trimming. Uh, we didn't tree trimming. Uh, we didn't have any ballot measures. Uh, have any ballot measures. Uh, so typically we would budget so typically we would budget something just in case there's something just in case there's a ballot measure.

[12:02] But we did a ballot measure. But we did not need to utilize that at not need to utilize that at this time. Uh, we have reduced this time. Uh, we have reduced fire and police overtime and fire and police overtime and also, um, supplies and services also, um, supplies and services in some other departments.

[12:15] in some other departments. Charlie, just excuse me. Just a Charlie, just excuse me. Just a quick question. So those dollar quick question. So those dollar amounts, the 4.95, the 1.2, amounts, the 4.95, the 1.2, those are from essentially those are from essentially today through June of 28.

[12:26] Those today through June of 28. Those are those reductions are over are those reductions are over the course of that time. Yes. the course of that time. Yes. Total. Not year by year. Total. Not year by year. Correct. Correct. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Uh, well, I mean, Thank you.

[12:37] Uh, well, I mean, some of them might be we some of them might be we reduced it in 27 and we carried reduced it in 27 and we carried it through 28. Uh, but, James, it through 28.

[12:47] Uh, but, James, correct me if I'm wrong, that, correct me if I'm wrong, that, um, if it was reduced in 27, it um, if it was reduced in 27, it would appear in that $2 million would appear in that $2 million of 28. So it carries through. of 28. So it carries through.

[12:53] So it could be 200,000 in the So it could be 200,000 in the first year for tree trimming, first year for tree trimming, and 500,000 for each subsequent and 500,000 for each subsequent of those blocks, basically to of those blocks, basically to get to a total of 1.2. get to a total of 1.2. And this example is 600,000 And this example is 600,000 each year. Okay, okay, 100,027 each year. Okay, okay, 100,027 6028 okay.

[13:06] 6028 okay. That's fine. That's fine. Thank you. Yeah. These are some Thank you. Yeah. These are some numbers over the three years. numbers over the three years. All right. We did have All right. We did have supplemental requests. Uh, in supplemental requests.

[13:17] Uh, in the adopted budget that were the adopted budget that were approved. So it's not that we approved. So it's not that we just backed off everything, but just backed off everything, but we tried to make targeted we tried to make targeted decisions on things we thought decisions on things we thought were really important.

[13:27] Uh, so a were really important. Uh, so a new paramedic paramedic squad new paramedic paramedic squad vehicle is in there? Um, vehicle is in there? Um, certainly the debt service for certainly the debt service for a fire equipment that's going a fire equipment that's going out of use.

[13:40] Um, we have, uh, out of use. Um, we have, uh, originally when we were looking originally when we were looking at things, we were cutting back at things, we were cutting back more on city special events and more on city special events and things, but we were able to things, but we were able to shift that those cuts to other

[13:48] shift that those cuts to other areas, and we were able to areas, and we were able to preserve some of the, uh, some preserve some of the, uh, some of those things at a reduced of those things at a reduced number than we had before. But number than we had before. But we've still able to do them.

[13:57] we've still able to do them. Uh, we had some position Uh, we had some position reclassification as the reclassification as the departments had to absorb, uh, departments had to absorb, uh, we looked over the list of we looked over the list of requested employees, new requested employees, new employees, and reclassification,

[14:09] employees, and reclassification, uh, approved some of them, not uh, approved some of them, not all of them. But then when they all of them. But then when they were approved, the departments were approved, the departments still had to find money to still had to find money to spend on those.

[14:18] So in effect, spend on those. So in effect, it was a cut in one area so it was a cut in one area so they could afford what they they could afford what they believed they needed in these believed they needed in these areas. Uh, and then we have areas.

[14:28] Uh, and then we have some parks, equipment and also some parks, equipment and also some enterprise leases, uh, for some enterprise leases, uh, for 17 new police department 17 new police department vehicles that were established vehicles that were established in the budget and approved by in the budget and approved by the council. All right.

[14:40] So that the council. All right. So that takes us to the point where the takes us to the point where the 27 and 28 budget have been 27 and 28 budget have been approved. We have not yet in approved.

[14:52] We have not yet in this scenario, um, in reality this scenario, um, in reality approved the nine, uh, approved the nine, uh, bargaining unit contracts. And bargaining unit contracts. And so they come into play now. And so they come into play now.

[15:10] And so, um, what you're seeing here so, um, what you're seeing here is, um, the fund balance that's is, um, the fund balance that's green, the top level is what green, the top level is what you were seeing on the previous you were seeing on the previous slide. Nothing changed there. slide. Nothing changed there. Then when we add in the Then when we add in the additional for the Mus, it's a additional for the Mus, it's a $1.

[15:21] 2 million starting in 27 and $1.2 million starting in 27 and carrying through each year. And carrying through each year. And so, um, as you can see, we have so, um, as you can see, we have to add another 200,000. In a to add another 200,000. In a fiscal year 2028 to that 1.

[15:30] 2 fiscal year 2028 to that 1.2 million to get the 1.4 million million to get the 1.4 million there. So we think of it as the there. So we think of it as the 1.2 carries through. And we 1.2 carries through.

[15:39] And we have to add a little bit of have to add a little bit of extra each year to account for extra each year to account for the changes, uh, due to that the changes, uh, due to that year. And so you'll see what year. And so you'll see what that does to our fund balance.

[15:47] that does to our fund balance. Um, where before we were going Um, where before we were going from 43 million down to 20 from 43 million down to 20 million, this takes us down to million, this takes us down to $11 million.

[15:56] So we need to make $11 million. So we need to make adjustments. And we're going to adjustments. And we're going to start in this year doing that. start in this year doing that. Yeah. Since I'm not a math Yeah. Since I'm not a math wizard. So the green ones on wizard.

[16:07] So the green ones on the the first fund balance line the the first fund balance line where we end up at 20 million, where we end up at 20 million, um, so we, we're, we're taking um, so we, we're, we're taking an extra 1.6 in those years an extra 1.

[16:17] 6 in those years down there toward the end, down there toward the end, let's say 31, 32. So if we're let's say 31, 32. So if we're taking 1.6 away each year, how taking 1.

[16:27] 6 away each year, how does the math get us to 11 does the math get us to 11 million? That's certainly more million? That's certainly more than I guess I'm not than I guess I'm not understanding why it understanding why it exponentially the fund balance exponentially the fund balance decreases so much when it's decreases so much when it's kind of a consistent 1.5 kind of a consistent 1.5 million. Can you explain how million.

[16:37] Can you explain how that works? that works? You have to add them all You have to add them all together. So it says fiscal together. So it says fiscal impact from Mus. It's 1.2 impact from Mus. It's 1.2 million plus 1.4 million, plus million plus 1.4 million, plus 1.5 million, all subtracted 1.

[16:51] 5 million, all subtracted from that 36,000,000 in 2027 from that 36,000,000 in 2027 gets you down to 11 because gets you down to 11 because it's it's we have to come up it's it's we have to come up with spend this much less each with spend this much less each year or. Well, the impact of year or.

[17:03] Well, the impact of the MOU is it's going to cost the MOU is it's going to cost $1.2 million more in 2027 than $1.2 million more in 2027 than we had budgeted. The 2028. It's we had budgeted. The 2028. It's $1.4 million more than we had $1.4 million more than we had budgeted.

[17:14] And so, um, if you budgeted. And so, um, if you look at the fund balance below look at the fund balance below it, you'll see each year's it, you'll see each year's decreased by the amount of that decreased by the amount of that fiscal impact. So we were going fiscal impact. So we were going to have $37.9 million.

[17:29] If to have $37.9 million. If everything happened exactly as everything happened exactly as we had planned. But now we know we had planned. But now we know it's going to cost us $1.2 it's going to cost us $1.2 million more. So we would million more.

[17:37] So we would expect to end this year at expect to end this year at 36,000,700. So that 36,000,700 36,000,700. So that 36,000,700 would go to the top of fiscal would go to the top of fiscal year 28. We'd add our revenues, year 28. We'd add our revenues, we'd do our expenditures. We're we'd do our expenditures.

[17:49] We're actually spending $8 million actually spending $8 million more. That's coming out of the more. That's coming out of the ending fund balance. So we ending fund balance. So we would have ended up with $29.9 would have ended up with $29.9 million. But we've got to take million. But we've got to take another 1.

[18:00] 4 million out for the another 1.4 million out for the Mus. Now to go down to Mus. Now to go down to 27,200,000. 27,200,000. Okay. I'll trust you on that. Okay. I'll trust you on that. I'm so confused at the end I'm so confused at the end there, but okay, I'll let you.

[18:10] there, but okay, I'll let you. Uh, well, basically what it is, Uh, well, basically what it is, is if you look at the green is if you look at the green lines, the ending fund balance, lines, the ending fund balance, you know, the first year, 2026 you know, the first year, 2026 is the same, but we're having

[18:19] is the same, but we're having to subtract out the Mus are to subtract out the Mus are costing us another 1.2 million. costing us another 1.2 million. And then the next year goes up And then the next year goes up by 200,000. So it's going to by 200,000. So it's going to cost us 1.4 million.

[18:29] cost us 1.4 million. At 1.4 plus the 1.2. At 1.4 plus the 1.2. Yes. Yes. Okay. So by the end basically Okay. So by the end basically we're adding 9 million or we're adding 9 million or whatever that number is there. whatever that number is there. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. Yeah. It's 20,000,000.

[18:42] 2, Yeah. It's 20,000,000.2, -11,000,000.2. So right about -11,000,000.2. So right about nine. So how do we get fiscal nine. So how do we get fiscal year 2027 where we think it year 2027 where we think it needs to be. And what that is needs to be. And what that is is taking out 1.

[18:59] 2 million, is taking out 1.2 million, knowing that we have to take knowing that we have to take another 200,000 roughly out of another 200,000 roughly out of that 1.2 carries through to that 1.2 carries through to 2028. So whatever we're cutting 2028. So whatever we're cutting now, we continue to cut in 28.

[19:10] now, we continue to cut in 28. Or if we're cutting a one time Or if we're cutting a one time thing, we've got to find one thing, we've got to find one time money in 2028 to cut, plus time money in 2028 to cut, plus another 200,000.

[19:19] So right now another 200,000. So right now what we have proposed to offset what we have proposed to offset the changes, um, $55,000 for the changes, um, $55,000 for three part time positions and three part time positions and and going down. Um, it's a we and going down.

[19:35] Um, it's a we we have looked at the various we have looked at the various different departments. Everyone different departments. Everyone has some cuts being made. These has some cuts being made.

[19:49] These are the the more noteworthy or are the the more noteworthy or higher level numbers we wanted higher level numbers we wanted to point out to you, um, like to point out to you, um, like 420,000 in service 420,000 in service expenditures. That's really expenditures.

[19:57] That's really across all the departments, and across all the departments, and it's made up of a bunch of it's made up of a bunch of little numbers that add up to little numbers that add up to that 420, uh, in fact, the that 420, uh, in fact, the agenda item we have here does agenda item we have here does have some attachments. And, uh, have some attachments.

[20:10] And, uh, the one I remember, the one the one I remember, the one attachment had this long list attachment had this long list that is is making up all of that is is making up all of these other numbers. And that's these other numbers. And that's what's being shown in exhibit A what's being shown in exhibit A right here. I know it's too right here.

[20:24] I know it's too small to read up on the screen, small to read up on the screen, but it was part of your agenda but it was part of your agenda packet. Uh, as an attachment. packet. Uh, as an attachment.

[20:34] And so you could go through and And so you could go through and see all of the $5,000, $10,000, see all of the $5,000, $10,000, $40,000, all the different. I $40,000, all the different. I mean, we have some that are mean, we have some that are $1,278. Uh, so it's it's we we $1,278.

[20:48] Uh, so it's it's we we tried to uncover every stone, tried to uncover every stone, uh, uh, coming up with these, uh, uh, coming up with these, uh, with these numbers. uh, with these numbers. I think it's that one. I think I think it's that one. I think it's the next one. it's the next one. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. That one.

[20:54] I just got a bunch of That one. I just got a bunch of Excel spreadsheet stuff on the Excel spreadsheet stuff on the one that. one that. I don't. I don't. Oh. Oh, sorry. This is the Oh. Oh, sorry. This is the in-kind list. Yeah. The, um, in-kind list. Yeah.

[21:04] The, um, the attachment to your, um, the attachment to your, um, agenda item has everything agenda item has everything adding up to $1.2 million. And adding up to $1.2 million. And so originally, um, there's, uh, so originally, um, there's, uh, there's things like reduction there's things like reduction of overtime, $166,000, a police of overtime, $166,000, a police overtime, $143,000, and fire

[21:22] overtime, $143,000, and fire department overtime. I had department overtime. I had asked the department, okay, asked the department, okay, we're reducing this overtime. we're reducing this overtime.

[21:33] Can we still manage the in-kind Can we still manage the in-kind services that we normally get? services that we normally get? That's on the list that the That's on the list that the council had approved. And I council had approved. And I basically what I'm told is basically what I'm told is unless something else really unless something else really big happens, uh, homicide, big happens, uh, homicide, natural disaster that forces, natural disaster that forces, uh, a lot of overtime in the

[21:49] uh, a lot of overtime in the police or fire area. We think police or fire area. We think that while it's kind of razor that while it's kind of razor thin that we can cover the thin that we can cover the in-kind services for this year. in-kind services for this year. Uh, I'm not sure.

[22:00] Next year, Uh, I'm not sure. Next year, that's a conversation we'll that's a conversation we'll have between January and June have between January and June of this coming year to figure of this coming year to figure out where we're going to do out where we're going to do with the 28 budget.

[22:09] Uh, because with the 28 budget. Uh, because we will have to take at least we will have to take at least $200,000. Like I said, out of $200,000. Like I said, out of the 28 budget, in addition to the 28 budget, in addition to whatever cuts are being made. whatever cuts are being made.

[22:21] Charlie, I didn't, uh, have Charlie, I didn't, uh, have that attachment with the that attachment with the in-kind. The one that you just in-kind. The one that you just put up. put up. Uh, I'm going to get to that Uh, I'm going to get to that next. Okay? Yeah. next. Okay? Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Yeah.

[22:32] I was looking All right. Yeah. I was looking for over here, too, and I for over here, too, and I couldn't.. couldn't.. One of the reasons we had this One of the reasons we had this as one of the exhibits was as one of the exhibits was because, uh, about $540,000 is

[22:45] because, uh, about $540,000 is what we estimate. Uh, that 20, what we estimate. Uh, that 20, 24, 25 expenditures were for 24, 25 expenditures were for in-kind. Um, we're going to in-kind. Um, we're going to talk about a whole in-kind, uh, talk about a whole in-kind, uh, agenda item after this one.

[22:58] The agenda item after this one. The reason this was here was reason this was here was originally I was I was very originally I was I was very concerned that the overtime concerned that the overtime reductions we were being that reductions we were being that we were making in these budget

[23:07] we were making in these budget cuts, um, we're going to impact cuts, um, we're going to impact that. But I had a meeting with that.

[23:18] But I had a meeting with staff, uh, just a few last staff, uh, just a few last week, and, uh, they told me we week, and, uh, they told me we think we can cover all these as think we can cover all these as long as, again, nothing eats long as, again, nothing eats into their overtime budget. So, into their overtime budget.

[23:27] So, you know, a local wildfire or you know, a local wildfire or something would eat into our something would eat into our fire budget? Definitely. Um, a fire budget? Definitely. Um, a major criminal event could eat major criminal event could eat into our police budget. So they into our police budget. So they just. They just wanted to make just. They just wanted to make sure.

[23:36] I always want to make sure. I always want to make sure the council has as much sure the council has as much information as possible. So information as possible. So when we're making decisions, we when we're making decisions, we can make informed decisions. can make informed decisions. Thank you. Thank you.

[23:47] So tonight, um, you're not So tonight, um, you're not really being asked to vote on really being asked to vote on anything other than the anything other than the knowledge that this will be knowledge that this will be coming to you in the future as coming to you in the future as a budget adjustment.

[23:58] And so a budget adjustment. And so wanting to a if there was any wanting to a if there was any significant issues that the significant issues that the council had and wanted changes council had and wanted changes to be made, uh, because some of to be made, uh, because some of this money is budgeted and

[24:09] this money is budgeted and could be spent, uh, very soon. could be spent, uh, very soon. And I wanted to make sure that And I wanted to make sure that we put a hold on anything that we put a hold on anything that we had planned to take out of

[24:16] we had planned to take out of the budget so that the the budget so that the departments weren't scrambling departments weren't scrambling to find other places to take it to find other places to take it from later on, if they've spent from later on, if they've spent this money.

[24:26] So, uh, with that, this money. So, uh, with that, uh, are there any questions? uh, are there any questions? It's always tough to make cuts, It's always tough to make cuts, but just wanted to reiterate but just wanted to reiterate for the public that, um, that for the public that, um, that these proposed cuts were the

[24:37] these proposed cuts were the ones that were recommended by ones that were recommended by each department director. each department director. Right. Right. That is true. Yes. That is true. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Are we considering going. Are we considering going.

[24:51] To, um, the different To, um, the different especially on on the waiver of especially on on the waiver of fees? There's a few that aren't fees? There's a few that aren't real expensive that we might be real expensive that we might be able to ask the charities that able to ask the charities that they can give to us. they can give to us.

[24:58] Uh, the plan is to talk to that Uh, the plan is to talk to that about that in more depth in the about that in more depth in the next agenda item. Oh, okay. next agenda item. Oh, okay. All right. I'm sorry. I mean, All right. I'm sorry. I mean, to jump ahead. to jump ahead.

[25:05] Uh, have over adopted a little Uh, have over adopted a little for you. So sorry about that. for you. So sorry about that. So that's okay. So that's okay. I just have one question. It's I just have one question. It's on the tree trimming piece. Um, on the tree trimming piece.

[25:12] Um, those two years where it's those two years where it's 600,000, was it was it a 600,000, was it was it a million? Was what the original million? Was what the original number was? Did it go or was it number was? Did it go or was it 1.2 we went to half or.

[25:18] 1.2 we went to half or. Yeah it was at 1.2 okay. Yeah it was at 1.2 okay. So we cut it in half. Yes. What So we cut it in half. Yes. What was, what does that look like was, what does that look like for the for the schedule.

[25:24] Just for the for the schedule. Just from a standpoint of we're from a standpoint of we're getting into this weather issue getting into this weather issue and, you know, trimming palm and, you know, trimming palm trees and all that kind of trees and all that kind of stuff that we're concerned. stuff that we're concerned. About caught up. So.

[25:30] About caught up. So. Um, probably about, I don't Um, probably about, I don't know, 5 or 7 years ago they know, 5 or 7 years ago they built this into the budget to built this into the budget to get cut up. So we're all cut get cut up. So we're all cut up.

[25:37] So we anticipate will be up. So we anticipate will be okay, okay. But that's what the okay, okay. But that's what the significant amount of money is, significant amount of money is, is we're on a 5 to 7 year is we're on a 5 to 7 year trimming cycle now okay. trimming cycle now okay. Great. Thank you.

[25:44] Great. Thank you. And I'll just add that, you And I'll just add that, you know, we are where we are know, we are where we are because we made the decisions because we made the decisions on, um, the investment into our on, um, the investment into our employees.

[25:53] We made the employees. We made the investment into these capital investment into these capital improvement projects. And we as improvement projects. And we as a council are going to have to a council are going to have to do the hard work since we're do the hard work since we're the ones that approve this.

[26:00] And the ones that approve this. And and collectively, I know that and collectively, I know that we're we're up to the we're we're up to the challenge, along with our city challenge, along with our city manager and the other staff manager and the other staff members to do this.

[26:06] But members to do this. But obviously it's going to be a obviously it's going to be a little uncomfortable, but it's little uncomfortable, but it's something we have to do because something we have to do because that's what we have been put in that's what we have been put in this positions to to do is to

[26:15] this positions to to do is to make sure that we are making make sure that we are making good decisions on our budget good decisions on our budget moving forward, and we'll work moving forward, and we'll work together, uh, with our finance together, uh, with our finance department, our city manager's

[26:24] department, our city manager's office, to really try to work office, to really try to work collectively to to get through collectively to to get through this next, you know, six years this next, you know, six years or so. So just want to make or so.

[26:32] So just want to make sure that we all understand sure that we all understand that, uh, we're all going to that, uh, we're all going to have a little bit of pain to, have a little bit of pain to, to contribute to this and, and, to contribute to this and, and, um, uh, I want to thank a city

[26:40] um, uh, I want to thank a city manager for at least proposing manager for at least proposing this and be able to allow us an this and be able to allow us an opportunity to see where we can opportunity to see where we can cut or where we can reduce, or

[26:49] cut or where we can reduce, or at least maintain what we have at least maintain what we have moving on. And hopefully the, moving on. And hopefully the, the, um, the economic future the, um, the economic future of, of our revenues coming in of, of our revenues coming in kind of stay stable or if

[26:58] kind of stay stable or if anything increases, which will anything increases, which will offset that. But you know, offset that. But you know, that's that's looking into the that's that's looking into the crystal ball a little bit. But crystal ball a little bit. But you know, thank you for that.

[27:06] you know, thank you for that. Um, or if there aren't any Um, or if there aren't any other questions or comments for other questions or comments for staff, I have one speaker slip. staff, I have one speaker slip. Mr. Dennis Bell. Mr. Dennis Bell. Good afternoon.

[27:25] The city is its Good afternoon. The city is its own worst enemy. The city's own worst enemy. The city's failed leisure leadership over failed leisure leadership over the years is responsible for the years is responsible for getting into this financial getting into this financial mess with misplaced priorities mess with misplaced priorities and wasteful spending.

[27:35] That's and wasteful spending. That's why people who should run for why people who should run for council won't. They tell me council won't. They tell me they don't want any part of they don't want any part of this mess. The city needs a this mess.

[27:46] The city needs a financial wrecking to financial wrecking to straighten this out, and straighten this out, and proposing cutting overtime for proposing cutting overtime for police and fire shouldn't police and fire shouldn't happen, given how important happen, given how important then short staffed both are and then short staffed both are and how this overtime cut is going how this overtime cut is going to affect this.

[27:56] This nonsense to affect this. This nonsense with the out here with the bars with the out here with the bars closing in this, the city closing in this, the city wanted to close the bars down wanted to close the bars down at midnight instead of 2 a.m.. at midnight instead of 2 a.m.. Thank you.

[28:05] Thank you. Thank you. So at this point in Thank you. So at this point in time, do you need any direction time, do you need any direction from us or just are we from us or just are we comfortable with what is being comfortable with what is being proposed? Yeah. Okay.

[28:14] proposed? Yeah. Okay. I just want to thank the work I just want to thank the work of the department heads and of the department heads and especially our new finance especially our new finance director. He's done an director. He's done an excellent job putting all this excellent job putting all this information together.

[28:24] Uh, we information together. Uh, we try to make what is very try to make what is very complicated as simple as complicated as simple as possible, knowing that you possible, knowing that you don't pore over these numbers don't pore over these numbers as frequently as we do.

[28:34] Uh, but as frequently as we do. Uh, but I think we're on track. We I think we're on track. We have. We have a plan. Uh, we're have. We have a plan. Uh, we're catching things well, before catching things well, before they become a problem. And they become a problem.

[28:42] And that's one of the reasons we do that's one of the reasons we do this six year fiscal outlook this six year fiscal outlook all the time. Because if you all the time.

[28:49] Because if you just look at this year, this just look at this year, this day and time, it will give you day and time, it will give you a false sense of security that a false sense of security that decisions today won't impact decisions today won't impact the future when they certainly the future when they certainly do. And so, uh, again, I, we do.

[29:01] And so, uh, again, I, we have now two years to plan for have now two years to plan for the next budget. And so I've the next budget. And so I've been already talking with staff been already talking with staff about how we put together that about how we put together that information so that we, um, can information so that we, um, can give a clearer picture to the

[29:11] give a clearer picture to the council as possible. council as possible. Thank you. Thank you. All Thank you. Thank you. All right, moving on to item C2. right, moving on to item C2.

[29:24] The discussion and possible The discussion and possible action of a fee schedule for action of a fee schedule for city services provided in city services provided in support of eligible nonprofit support of eligible nonprofit events pursuant to resolution events pursuant to resolution 8780. Facilities and Community 8780. Facilities and Community Services. Director, Crocker. Services. Director, Crocker.

[29:36] Uh, mayor, if I could just cut Uh, mayor, if I could just cut in on a second, I forgot to in on a second, I forgot to just flash up the calendar up just flash up the calendar up there. Okay, since we were there. Okay, since we were talking about, uh, we're right talking about, uh, we're right there in number one. Uh, the there in number one.

[29:45] Uh, the blue line, talking about the blue line, talking about the recommended revisions for 27. recommended revisions for 27. We are currently researching We are currently researching the paramedic proposal on the the paramedic proposal on the fire station, so we are in fire station, so we are in target to bring that back to

[29:54] target to bring that back to you. Uh, at the beginning of you. Uh, at the beginning of the year, uh, we are, uh, as the year, uh, we are, uh, as soon as we get a little further soon as we get a little further on that, we'll be working with

[30:01] on that, we'll be working with the departments on a report of the departments on a report of the absolute essential services the absolute essential services so we can gauge where that so we can gauge where that spending is versus other things spending is versus other things that we have.

[30:13] And then the next that we have. And then the next two groups are the next two two groups are the next two calendar years, uh, where we're calendar years, uh, where we're going to report on the fire going to report on the fire division, uh, we have a division, uh, we have a quadrennial revenue review plan

[30:21] quadrennial revenue review plan for the spring. Uh, we will be for the spring. Uh, we will be doing some strategic planning a doing some strategic planning a year from now, in the fall, so year from now, in the fall, so we can set that up and we can set that up and influence and inform our 29 and

[30:35] influence and inform our 29 and 20 and 30 budget, and also that 20 and 30 budget, and also that outlook for the six years. Uh, outlook for the six years. Uh, and then we will have, uh, uh, and then we will have, uh, uh, adopting that budget.

[30:43] And then adopting that budget. And then before you know it, we will before you know it, we will start bargaining unit. start bargaining unit. Bargaining unit negotiations in Bargaining unit negotiations in fiscal year 29, to be completed fiscal year 29, to be completed in June of 29.

[30:54] Uh, to to begin in June of 29. Uh, to to begin with, fiscal year, uh, 30. with, fiscal year, uh, 30. All right. Thank you. I think All right. Thank you. I think that's a great roadmap. At that's a great roadmap. At least we're all kind of on the least we're all kind of on the same page.

[31:02] So I appreciate same page. So I appreciate that. All right, Director that. All right, Director Crocker. Crocker. Thank you. Mayor. Members of Thank you. Mayor.

[31:15] Members of the council, um, on April 21st the council, um, on April 21st of this year, the city council of this year, the city council adopted resolution number 8780 adopted resolution number 8780 that amended resolution number that amended resolution number 8220. The new resolution 8220.

[31:27] The new resolution established a defined list of established a defined list of historically supported historically supported nonprofit events that were nonprofit events that were eligible to continue receiving eligible to continue receiving in-kind city services, and that in-kind city services, and that list is attached to the report. list is attached to the report. And I think that's the same And I think that's the same exhibit that Charlie had up exhibit that Charlie had up earlier. Um, at the same earlier.

[31:34] Um, at the same meeting, the city council also meeting, the city council also directed staff to return with a directed staff to return with a fee schedule identifying the fee schedule identifying the estimated value of city estimated value of city services provided to those services provided to those events. And the discussion at events.

[31:44] And the discussion at the meeting circulated around the meeting circulated around the cost of these events and the cost of these events and the impact that it has to the the impact that it has to the general fund. Generally, these general fund.

[31:54] Generally, these costs have continued to grow, costs have continued to grow, and so has the impact on the and so has the impact on the city's general fund. The city's general fund. The availability of city staff and availability of city staff and resources that were needed to resources that were needed to provide support to these provide support to these events. So staff conducted events.

[32:05] So staff conducted research and found various research and found various existing fees that could be existing fees that could be applied to nonprofit events. applied to nonprofit events. And those fees include event And those fees include event application fees, street application fees, street closure fees, a park attendant, closure fees, a park attendant, and various park reservation

[32:18] and various park reservation fees, and those are listed in a fees, and those are listed in a staff report as well. Um, we staff report as well. Um, we then took there's three then took there's three examples. Um, and all and all examples. Um, and all and all three examples.

[32:31] There was a three examples. There was a cost recovery. Um, but those cost recovery. Um, but those amounts vary depending on the amounts vary depending on the event and the activity. So some event and the activity. So some had street closures and some had street closures and some were just in parks.

[32:41] And one were just in parks. And one example is the believe walk example is the believe walk event application for last year event application for last year for the in-kind support for the in-kind support request. It was 40 about request. It was 40 about $45,000. Um, if existing fees $45,000.

[32:55] Um, if existing fees were applied, the recovery cost were applied, the recovery cost of that event would be about of that event would be about 36,000. Um, also included in 36,000. Um, also included in the staff report was the the staff report was the Octoberfest, which doesn't Octoberfest, which doesn't involve any street closures. involve any street closures.

[33:04] And then you have the downtown And then you have the downtown Art walk. Um, additional Art walk. Um, additional information, including the information, including the staff report for City Council's staff report for City Council's consideration and discussion, consideration and discussion, are cost associated with these are cost associated with these events? Um, includes fees that

[33:15] events? Um, includes fees that don't currently exist and could don't currently exist and could potentially assist in the in potentially assist in the in alleviating some of those alleviating some of those costs. Those include the fully costs.

[33:26] Those include the fully burdened staff, time for public burdened staff, time for public safety, and general employees, safety, and general employees, as well as equipment and as well as equipment and rentals. And this concludes my rentals. And this concludes my overview of the staff report, overview of the staff report, and I'm available for any and I'm available for any questions. questions. Just a question.

[33:35] Thinking back Just a question. Thinking back to April when we talked about to April when we talked about this, these three events here this, these three events here all fall under that. Um, all fall under that.

[33:43] Um, they're on the list because they're on the list because they're, quote, approved in they're, quote, approved in kind because we did them in 24, kind because we did them in 24, 25. I assume we're just using 25. I assume we're just using these as kind of a just truly these as kind of a just truly an example.

[33:51] Our intent isn't to an example. Our intent isn't to if we implement something, tell if we implement something, tell the believe. Okay. Now you're the believe. Okay. Now you're gonna 036 thousand or whatever gonna 036 thousand or whatever this would just be. So if this would just be.

[33:58] So if there's a new event that comes there's a new event that comes along, this is what they could along, this is what they could look at and see kind of an idea look at and see kind of an idea what that would look like if what that would look like if there's a street closure and so there's a street closure and so forth.

[34:04] forth. Yeah. These are the fees that Yeah. These are the fees that we have on our fee schedule we have on our fee schedule that are adopted right now that that are adopted right now that we could apply. So I just took we could apply.

[34:11] So I just took all of those fees and applied all of those fees and applied them to three examples. So you them to three examples. So you don't have to do all the fees. don't have to do all the fees. You could do some of the fees. You could do some of the fees.

[34:16] You don't have to do any of You don't have to do any of them. It's just there for them. It's just there for council to have a reference. council to have a reference.

[34:24] But our our intent, I at least But our our intent, I at least my intent when we talked about my intent when we talked about this before was not to go back this before was not to go back and implement those on those and implement those on those existing ones. This would be if existing ones. This would be if somebody came forward that somebody came forward that wanted to do an event, it would wanted to do an event, it would be looking at.

[34:30] We would have a be looking at. We would have a fee structure that that would fee structure that that would allow them to do something, but allow them to do something, but what we would recover the cost what we would recover the cost on those. on those. For that resolution that you For that resolution that you adopted. That is correct.

[34:38] adopted. That is correct. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. And per that resolution, the And per that resolution, the the the first set of bullets the the first set of bullets are the special events and, and are the special events and, and the street closures. Those are the street closures.

[34:48] Those are the those are already in place the those are already in place by resolution. Say that again by resolution. Say that again the um so the following fees the um so the following fees currently exist and may be currently exist and may be applied to recover costs applied to recover costs associated with the various associated with the various in-kind events. Right.

[34:58] in-kind events. Right. Yeah. That first paragraph of Yeah. That first paragraph of events. I'm sorry, I'm already events. I'm sorry, I'm already getting confused of fees. Those getting confused of fees. Those we have in can apply. we have in can apply. Okay. Okay. But we don't. But we don't. We have these.

[35:10] We don't apply We have these. We don't apply them. them. Correct. When they come and ask Correct. When they come and ask us for an in-kind fee, they're us for an in-kind fee, they're asking us to waive those fees asking us to waive those fees right there. right there.

[35:18] So have we had any, um, So have we had any, um, request, uh, since we adopted request, uh, since we adopted this? this? Um, we did have the, um is it Um, we did have the, um is it rotary that did the, um, rotary that did the, um, baseball game at Oso Park? Yes.

[35:30] baseball game at Oso Park? Yes. They paid all their fees. They paid all their fees. Oh, okay. Good. All right. Oh, okay. Good. All right. Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you.

[35:41] Any other questions? I just I still worry about I just I still worry about this, um, if an event like that this, um, if an event like that is a great example of something is a great example of something that we could have supported, that we could have supported, and I voted no before, and, um, and I voted no before, and, um, just.

[35:48] Yeah, I think that we just. Yeah, I think that we should take these on a case by should take these on a case by case basis, as we have in the case basis, as we have in the past. past.

[35:58] The the council is taking all The the council is taking all in-kind services, even the ones in-kind services, even the ones on the list, on a case by case on the list, on a case by case basis. We do bring them to you. basis. We do bring them to you. We're just not recommending any We're just not recommending any new ones for in-kind support.

[36:07] new ones for in-kind support. And so it's, um, uh, unless the And so it's, um, uh, unless the council wanted us to open it up council wanted us to open it up again to all newcomers, uh, again to all newcomers, uh, we're we're letting people know we're we're letting people know that there are fees applied

[36:19] that there are fees applied here. The council can change at here. The council can change at any time. Really? For us, it's any time. Really? For us, it's more a monetary thing than more a monetary thing than anything. If we're taking 4 anything. If we're taking 4 million, then 1.

[36:28] 2 million out million, then 1.2 million out of the budget. And now another of the budget. And now another 4.5 million in 3 years. The 4.5 million in 3 years.

[36:37] The question is, do we these question is, do we these numbers are going to grow just numbers are going to grow just through normal inflation of how through normal inflation of how much our staffing costs. So the much our staffing costs. So the question is how much would you question is how much would you like us to budget for these like us to budget for these items? items? I want to make sure I go ahead.

[36:45] I want to make sure I go ahead. I want to make sure I I want to make sure I understand that. Let's go to understand that. Let's go to the Octoberfest. Based on the the Octoberfest. Based on the applications. Last year, applications. Last year, approval in-kind was 165.

[36:52] Uh, approval in-kind was 165. Uh, fees listed above would recover fees listed above would recover $4,700. What I'm not getting is $4,700. What I'm not getting is what's the difference between. what's the difference between. There's a big difference There's a big difference between 44,000 716,500. between 44,000 716,500.

[37:05] The public safety costs, The public safety costs, they're not they weren't part they're not they weren't part of the example right here of of the example right here of what our normal. We don't have what our normal. We don't have a normal fee right now for the a normal fee right now for the public safety recovery.

[37:14] We did public safety recovery. We did include an attachment that had include an attachment that had potential fees for both police potential fees for both police and fire and some other things. and fire and some other things.

[37:23] But from the fees that But from the fees that currently exist, if we were to currently exist, if we were to charge, we would recover about charge, we would recover about $4,700 because we don't $4,700 because we don't normally tell someone they have normally tell someone they have to pay X amount for a police to pay X amount for a police officer. officer. I think. I think.

[37:34] Maybe what I'm getting at is, Maybe what I'm getting at is, is, um. It wouldn't I, I don't is, um. It wouldn't I, I don't I don't have a problem going. I don't have a problem going.

[37:41] The Optimist Clubs happens to The Optimist Clubs happens to be a club that I'm a member of be a club that I'm a member of and saying, geez, you know, um, and saying, geez, you know, um, I think we can afford 4700 I think we can afford 4700 bucks. That city doesn't bucks. That city doesn't necessarily have to pay. We necessarily have to pay.

[37:49] We raise quite a bit of money for raise quite a bit of money for that. But I would, would, would that. But I would, would, would like to believe that, um, like to believe that, um, believe walking a few other believe walking a few other things would volunteer the same things would volunteer the same thing of, okay, we'll pick up

[37:57] thing of, okay, we'll pick up some of the fees. So maybe, uh, some of the fees. So maybe, uh, some of the hard cost fees as some of the hard cost fees as opposed to. Anyway, again, I opposed to.

[38:05] Anyway, again, I would not be opposed to going would not be opposed to going to these charities and say, to these charities and say, okay, because of budgets and okay, because of budgets and stuff. We want to know if stuff. We want to know if there's a way that you guys can there's a way that you guys can support some of us.

[38:12] We should support some of us. We should then have to be 100%. then have to be 100%. I had a question around the I had a question around the Cultural Arts Commission, I Cultural Arts Commission, I think recently voted to it to think recently voted to it to recommend to us that we exempt

[38:25] recommend to us that we exempt arts and cultural organizations arts and cultural organizations from this. Do you have more from this. Do you have more information on that? Anyone? information on that? Anyone? I don't have a whole lot. I I don't have a whole lot.

[38:35] I know they talked about that at know they talked about that at one of their recent meetings, one of their recent meetings, and that they were going to and that they were going to bring something forward. So bring something forward. So anything, any recommendation anything, any recommendation that they want to bring, we'll that they want to bring, we'll bring it to the council.

[38:43] bring it to the council. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. And I'll just add again, And I'll just add again, because of my previous because of my previous statements, when we were going statements, when we were going to where we're at fiscally, to where we're at fiscally, that we are going to have to

[38:55] that we are going to have to make these budget reductions. make these budget reductions. Uh, many some of us have Uh, many some of us have certain special events that are certain special events that are close to our heart, but that at close to our heart, but that at some point in time, we're going

[39:05] some point in time, we're going to have to make some hard to have to make some hard decisions. And this is just one decisions. And this is just one example of where we may get example of where we may get caught up in and wanting to caught up in and wanting to continue funding something

[39:16] continue funding something that's growing, as opposed to that's growing, as opposed to making some hard decisions in making some hard decisions in the first year or so, to be the first year or so, to be able to rein in some of our able to rein in some of our spending.

[39:25] So I know that we all spending. So I know that we all have pet projects, we have pet have pet projects, we have pet or we have, um, projects again, or we have, um, projects again, that, are organizations or that, are organizations or causes that are, you know, that causes that are, you know, that we have passionate about, but

[39:36] we have passionate about, but that collectively we're going that collectively we're going to have to be able to start to have to be able to start drawing the line and making drawing the line and making some hard decisions moving some hard decisions moving forward. This is just one forward.

[39:46] This is just one example of maybe some other example of maybe some other discussions that we may be discussions that we may be having, but I would just having, but I would just encourage our council members encourage our council members to, you know, look at, you to, you know, look at, you know, what's in front of us,

[39:54] know, what's in front of us, what we've already committed what we've already committed ourselves to, and to be able to ourselves to, and to be able to start showing some fiscal start showing some fiscal responsibility and and responsibility and and discipline here. So I'll just discipline here. So I'll just leave that at that.

[40:04] So thank leave that at that. So thank you. Okay. I have one speaker you. Okay. I have one speaker slip. Mister Andy Holder. Well slip. Mister Andy Holder. Well I he's one item on it. He's I he's one item on it. He's got. got.

[40:20] Yeah, we're 300 people out Yeah, we're 300 people out there in the foyer that were there in the foyer that were going to follow me up here. So going to follow me up here. So now it's all on my shoulders. now it's all on my shoulders. But anyway, it's Andy Hodder. But anyway, it's Andy Hodder. Some of you know me. And, uh, Some of you know me. And, uh, good evening. Good afternoon.

[40:27] good evening. Good afternoon. For members of the council and For members of the council and the staff, etcetera, etcetera. the staff, etcetera, etcetera. This is an issue, uh, using This is an issue, uh, using that term loosely, that goes that term loosely, that goes back many years.

[40:35] And there's back many years. And there's one member of the council here one member of the council here that knows it very well because that knows it very well because they experienced it personally. they experienced it personally.

[40:44] But I'll pick a point in time But I'll pick a point in time to start the conversation back to start the conversation back way before Covid, there was a way before Covid, there was a brewery here in town that, uh, brewery here in town that, uh, sponsored an event at the sponsored an event at the airport called an air show or airport called an air show or an air fest, at which they sold

[40:53] an air fest, at which they sold their beer. It was a pretty their beer. It was a pretty popular event. And each year popular event. And each year that event grew and grew. But that event grew and grew.

[41:00] But the services that the city the services that the city needed to provide for that needed to provide for that event also grew event also grew proportionately. And at some proportionately. And at some point, the last figure I point, the last figure I remember that enterprise came remember that enterprise came to the city with a request for to the city with a request for a waiver of $98,000 in fees,

[41:15] a waiver of $98,000 in fees, and there were some on the and there were some on the council that thought, but it's council that thought, but it's good for Redlands and it's good good for Redlands and it's good for the motels, and it's good for the motels, and it's good for the restaurants.

[41:21] And on top for the restaurants. And on top of all that, it's a feel good of all that, it's a feel good event. And I hate to say it, in event.

[41:29] And I hate to say it, in past administrations, that was past administrations, that was a strong element is it just a strong element is it just feels good to do it. It makes feels good to do it. It makes our image look good and that's our image look good and that's what we want to do. But it's what we want to do.

[41:35] But it's kind of like letting the kids kind of like letting the kids handle the checkbook for the handle the checkbook for the parents. It can't be just what parents. It can't be just what feels good and looks good. It feels good and looks good. It comes down to hard dollars at comes down to hard dollars at some point.

[41:43] So a council member some point. So a council member at the time proposed, and I at the time proposed, and I think rightly so, and very think rightly so, and very diplomatically saw where that diplomatically saw where that was going. And constituent was going.

[41:52] And constituent citizens were starting to say, citizens were starting to say, wow, that seems like a lot of wow, that seems like a lot of money that were waving. So the money that were waving.

[41:59] So the proposal was, can we come up proposal was, can we come up with a schedule of some kind, with a schedule of some kind, which is kind of where we are which is kind of where we are now, that would outline some now, that would outline some reasonable fees for reasonable reasonable fees for reasonable events that are not necessarily events that are not necessarily charitable, but they're good

[42:07] charitable, but they're good for other reasons, so that the for other reasons, so that the organizers of those events organizers of those events could look at that schedule could look at that schedule beforehand and see what they're beforehand and see what they're expected to contribute. And I expected to contribute.

[42:17] And I suggested at the time, split it suggested at the time, split it 50, 50, 98,000. They pay half, 50, 50, 98,000. They pay half, we pay half. And that didn't go we pay half.

[42:26] And that didn't go anywhere, of course, but I'm anywhere, of course, but I'm glad that it's finally coming glad that it's finally coming ever so slowly, full circle to ever so slowly, full circle to yeah, we got to take a closer yeah, we got to take a closer look at this at some point. It look at this at some point.

[42:32] It seemed to be the word on the seemed to be the word on the street from other organizations street from other organizations outside of Redlands. Go to outside of Redlands. Go to Redlands and have an event. Redlands and have an event. It's free. It doesn't matter if It's free. It doesn't matter if it's a charity or not. It's a it's a charity or not. It's a feel good event.

[42:40] It polishes feel good event. It polishes their image and they'll always their image and they'll always say yes to the fee waiver, no say yes to the fee waiver, no matter how much it is. So I matter how much it is.

[42:48] So I think you are starting to think you are starting to recognize that that was going recognize that that was going too far. I'm glad that you're too far. I'm glad that you're making an effort to reel that making an effort to reel that in and come up with a in and come up with a reasonable schedule that works reasonable schedule that works for the charities for the other

[42:57] for the charities for the other organizations and for the organizations and for the citizens of Redlands who are citizens of Redlands who are ultimately going to absorb what ultimately going to absorb what we call a waiver, uh, to sort we call a waiver, uh, to sort of polish that at the time, to

[43:06] of polish that at the time, to get away from that waiver idea. get away from that waiver idea. They change the name of it to They change the name of it to in-kind support. That's so much in-kind support. That's so much nicer. It's kind of nicer. It's kind of sugarcoated. It sounds nice.

[43:13] sugarcoated. It sounds nice. In-kind support. It's a waiver In-kind support. It's a waiver of a fee. And that's not a of a fee. And that's not a dirty word. Say what it is and dirty word.

[43:19] Say what it is and then explain why you want to do then explain why you want to do that. So that's my point. Thank that. So that's my point. Thank you very much. you very much. Thank you. Uh, next speaker is Thank you. Uh, next speaker is Mr. Dennis Bell. Mr. Dennis Bell.

[43:41] Who's the city trying to fool Who's the city trying to fool with this item? This isn't with this item? This isn't going anywhere more than it has going anywhere more than it has in the past. The three examples in the past. The three examples given in the staff report to given in the staff report to recover costs left out the £800 recover costs left out the £800 gorilla in the room.

[43:51] The bike gorilla in the room. The bike classics. Thank you. classics. Thank you. Thank you. I don't have any Thank you. I don't have any more speaker steps. I don't see more speaker steps. I don't see anybody on zoom. Uh, is there anybody on zoom. Uh, is there an action item on this? Nope.

[44:01] an action item on this? Nope. Just for information only. Just for information only. Unless the council wanted to Unless the council wanted to make any changes to our current make any changes to our current practice, which is governed by practice, which is governed by the resolution that was passed

[44:08] the resolution that was passed a few months ago. Okay. a few months ago. Okay. No. No. Okay. Okay. Sorry. Just one more point of Sorry. Just one more point of clarification. So you said this clarification.

[44:21] So you said this would be applied to new events, would be applied to new events, not the events that are already not the events that are already exempted on the list. Okay. exempted on the list. Okay. But again. like the city But again. like the city manager said, um, that I'll manager said, um, that I'll bring that to you for bring that to you for consideration. Like every time consideration.

[44:32] Like every time I bring one of the in-kind I bring one of the in-kind requests, you have the ability requests, you have the ability to discuss it at the meeting. to discuss it at the meeting. When I bring that forward. When I bring that forward. Yeah. My only concern is I Yeah.

[44:39] My only concern is I would just worry about the would just worry about the inequity. Right? Like we might inequity. Right? Like we might have left some core events off have left some core events off of that list initially or of that list initially or there, you know, could be there, you know, could be brand, brand new, wonderful brand, brand new, wonderful events like the softball game,

[44:50] events like the softball game, right, that we might want to right, that we might want to support going forward in bigger support going forward in bigger ways. So that that's my concern. ways. So that that's my concern. Okay.

[45:02] Uh, moving on to item C3 Uh, moving on to item C3 discussion and possible action discussion and possible action regarding the seventh and ninth regarding the seventh and ninth Street parking lot and other Street parking lot and other parking related projects in parking related projects in downtown area. Assistant City downtown area. Assistant City Manager Wilson. Manager Wilson. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Members Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

[45:13] Members of the council, uh, economic of the council, uh, economic development Coordinator Ross development Coordinator Ross Wittman will present the item. Wittman will present the item. All right. Good evening, Mayor All right. Good evening, Mayor and Council. Tonight's brief and Council.

[45:32] Tonight's brief presentation regarding downtown presentation regarding downtown parking is to provide parking is to provide background on initiatives that background on initiatives that council directed staff to council directed staff to review related to the Downtown review related to the Downtown Parking Study Council adopted Parking Study Council adopted in January 2024, and to seek in January 2024, and to seek direction from the council on direction from the council on how to proceed with the

[45:43] how to proceed with the proposed Seventh and Ninth proposed Seventh and Ninth Street parking lot. As you all Street parking lot. As you all are very aware, be it the are very aware, be it the city's natural beauty or city's natural beauty or special events, Redlands is a special events, Redlands is a destination for all of Southern

[45:53] destination for all of Southern California. When people come to California. When people come to Redlands to visit one of our Redlands to visit one of our one of the city's many special one of the city's many special events, this frequently means a events, this frequently means a stretching of available parking stretching of available parking resources, especially when

[46:02] resources, especially when State Street is closed or when State Street is closed or when the parking structure on Citrus the parking structure on Citrus Avenue is utilized for an event Avenue is utilized for an event and not for parking. and not for parking.

[46:12] Regardless, Redlands has always Regardless, Redlands has always been a place that encourages been a place that encourages visitors to the community by visitors to the community by not restricting parking behind not restricting parking behind a paywall, and is offered all a paywall, and is offered all public parking for residents public parking for residents and visitors free of charge, and visitors free of charge, while special events and

[46:22] while special events and visitors are absolutely visitors are absolutely encouraged, it also creates a encouraged, it also creates a problem of proximity to problem of proximity to visitors downtown. Expect visitors downtown.

[46:31] Expect parking to be available in parking to be available in front of or near the vicinity front of or near the vicinity of the place that they intend of the place that they intend to go, with the city that is to go, with the city that is nearly built out. Solutions to nearly built out. Solutions to parking proximity challenges parking proximity challenges are not readily available. are not readily available.

[46:40] Furthermore, as additional Furthermore, as additional development occurs downtown, development occurs downtown, the eventual mall project, the the eventual mall project, the City center and the grand City center and the grand construction traffic will construction traffic will increase in parking resources increase in parking resources will be stretched even further. will be stretched even further.

[46:51] Finally, while parking Finally, while parking proximity poses a challenge, proximity poses a challenge, perhaps the larger issue is the perhaps the larger issue is the lack of a dedicated funding lack of a dedicated funding source specifically for source specifically for increasing the supply of increasing the supply of downtown parking.

[47:02] As of today, downtown parking. As of today, we have approximately 800 to we have approximately 800 to 900 parking spaces across nine 900 parking spaces across nine parking lots in the downtown parking lots in the downtown area. Approximately 400 are area.

[47:14] Approximately 400 are contained within the Stuart contained within the Stuart Avenue parking structure, which Avenue parking structure, which is number our letter A on that is number our letter A on that map. And of those 809 hundred map. And of those 809 hundred parking spaces, these are all parking spaces, these are all specifically related to parking specifically related to parking lots.

[47:26] And the parking spaces do lots. And the parking spaces do not include any of the parking not include any of the parking that is on street in downtown that is on street in downtown Redlands. I'm done. Um, okay. Redlands. I'm done. Um, okay.

[47:43] As you may remember, the As you may remember, the downtown parking study was downtown parking study was adopted by the City Council in adopted by the City Council in January of 2024. At that January of 2024. At that meeting, the City Council meeting, the City Council approved five actions to approved five actions to address downtown parking. Those address downtown parking. Those are as follows.

[47:53] Increased are as follows. Increased parking. Enforcement of time parking. Enforcement of time parking zones. Safety parking zones. Safety improvement. Safety improvement. Safety improvements to Citrus Avenue improvements to Citrus Avenue Garage and Centennial Plaza. Garage and Centennial Plaza. Underground parking lot. Underground parking lot. Analyze the redevelopment Analyze the redevelopment opportunities for this site.

[48:05] opportunities for this site. License the use of the SB CTA License the use of the SB CTA lot at seventh Street and the lot at seventh Street and the railroad tracks, and to railroad tracks, and to evaluate the shuttle services. evaluate the shuttle services.

[48:13] And I won't be touching on that And I won't be touching on that today because that was already today because that was already evaluated in deemed too evaluated in deemed too expensive at this point in time. expensive at this point in time.

[48:21] Staff can provide the following Staff can provide the following updates related to the Downtown updates related to the Downtown Parking study. Actions related Parking study. Actions related to the increase of parking to the increase of parking enforcement. Redlands Police enforcement.

[48:32] Redlands Police Department issued 611 citations Department issued 611 citations during the time period of March during the time period of March 2024 to October 2025, in the 2024 to October 2025, in the downtown area area. Earlier in downtown area area. Earlier in 2026, the City Council approved 2026, the City Council approved a lease with Town Square a lease with Town Square Development Group for the lease Development Group for the lease of approximately 500 parking of approximately 500 parking spaces at the Redlands Mall

[48:42] spaces at the Redlands Mall site. That lease is for site. That lease is for approximately $350,000 approximately $350,000 annually. Related to the annually. Related to the redevelopment options for this redevelopment options for this site, staff has completed two site, staff has completed two feasibility studies. The first feasibility studies.

[48:56] The first evaluated the demolition of the evaluated the demolition of the two easterly buildings on this two easterly buildings on this site, constructing a surface site, constructing a surface parking lot while preserving parking lot while preserving the building that we are in the building that we are in currently. That project would currently.

[49:05] That project would cost an estimated $4 million cost an estimated $4 million and result in approximately 280 and result in approximately 280 parking spaces, or $448,200 per parking spaces, or $448,200 per space. The second evaluated the space.

[49:19] The second evaluated the demolition of the entire city demolition of the entire city hall complex, and the hall complex, and the construction of a multi-level construction of a multi-level parking structure. That project parking structure. That project would cost an estimated 28.5 would cost an estimated 28.

[49:34] 5 million and result in 500 million and result in 500 parking spaces, with parking spaces, with approximately 10,000ft of approximately 10,000ft of retail along Citrus Avenue, retail along Citrus Avenue, equating to 51,390 per parking equating to 51,390 per parking space. This map shows sort of a space. This map shows sort of a rough overview as to what we rough overview as to what we could anticipate for the, uh, could anticipate for the, uh, the re. I guess, the re.

[49:49] I guess, reconfiguration of the City reconfiguration of the City Hall site. The first Hall site. The first feasibility study that I feasibility study that I mentioned, that would be a mentioned, that would be a surface parking lot. As you can surface parking lot.

[49:58] As you can see, the yellow area would be see, the yellow area would be where the existing buildings where the existing buildings are to the east and to the of are to the east and to the of us. Where Moody, uh, the fire us. Where Moody, uh, the fire station and development station and development services are currently. This services are currently. This would preserve the underground would preserve the underground parking lot as well.

[50:14] The second parking lot as well. The second slide is a feasibility from the slide is a feasibility from the feasibility study for the feasibility study for the almost $30 million parking almost $30 million parking structure. This is a view from structure.

[50:24] This is a view from basically, if you were looking basically, if you were looking at the existing Redlands Mall at the existing Redlands Mall site back towards City Hall, site back towards City Hall, the blue area is the retail the blue area is the retail portion of this site. So portion of this site.

[50:35] So essentially we would be essentially we would be standing in kind of where the standing in kind of where the retail would be. And again, retail would be. And again, that's approximately 10,000ft that's approximately 10,000ft of retail. So why are we here? of retail.

[50:50] So why are we here? As I have discussed throughout As I have discussed throughout this presentation, staff have this presentation, staff have taken steps to evaluate taken steps to evaluate downtown parking as directed by downtown parking as directed by the City Council at the January the City Council at the January 2024 council meeting. The one 2024 council meeting.

[50:59] The one item we have yet to address is item we have yet to address is the evaluation of the seventh the evaluation of the seventh and ninth Street parking lot. and ninth Street parking lot.

[51:08] Staff began discussions with Staff began discussions with CTA early in 2026 to determine CTA early in 2026 to determine if a vacant two acre parcel if a vacant two acre parcel they own just north of Redlands they own just north of Redlands Boulevard between seventh and Boulevard between seventh and ninth Street, would be ninth Street, would be available to construct a available to construct a parking lot. SB CTA has parking lot.

[51:16] SB CTA has indicated both a willingness to indicated both a willingness to lease the parcel and to sell lease the parcel and to sell the property to the city. For the property to the city. For this purpose. To this end, this purpose.

[51:24] To this end, staff began a two pronged staff began a two pronged approach to gain access to the approach to gain access to the property, with the first being property, with the first being a submittal of a lease a submittal of a lease application and the second application and the second being possible acquisition of being possible acquisition of the property for a potential the property for a potential lease.

[51:31] Staff have submitted a lease. Staff have submitted a lease application and paid the lease application and paid the $3,500 lease fee. Already. City $3,500 lease fee. Already.

[51:42] City staff and SBA staff have been staff and SBA staff have been in negotiations and there would in negotiations and there would be no ongoing fee associated be no ongoing fee associated with the lease should the city with the lease should the city wish to pursue this path, there wish to pursue this path, there would be an annual license fee would be an annual license fee of $1,500 associated with of $1,500 associated with railroad interest, but no other

[51:50] railroad interest, but no other fee would be charged to the fee would be charged to the city to lease the property for city to lease the property for a potential acquisition. The a potential acquisition.

[51:57] The city hired an appraiser to city hired an appraiser to determine the fair market value determine the fair market value of the parcel. After their of the parcel. After their review, the parcel was valued review, the parcel was valued at a little over $1 million. In at a little over $1 million.

[52:07] In early 2026, City Council early 2026, City Council approved an additional approved an additional appropriation of 97,000 with appropriation of 97,000 with Hicks and Hartwick to fund the Hicks and Hartwick to fund the design of a potential lot, and design of a potential lot, and that design has resulted in an that design has resulted in an approximately 140 parking space approximately 140 parking space lot.

[52:16] In either scenario, lease lot. In either scenario, lease or acquisition of the parcel. or acquisition of the parcel. The construction cost estimate The construction cost estimate of the lot is $650,000. To of the lot is $650,000.

[52:27] To date, staff has expended date, staff has expended $104,000 to determine the $104,000 to determine the viability of the construction viability of the construction of the parking lot, $3,500 for of the parking lot, $3,500 for the lease, $3,500 for the the lease, $3,500 for the appraisal, and $97,000 for the appraisal, and $97,000 for the design of the lot. And as you design of the lot.

[52:37] And as you can see from this aerial photo, can see from this aerial photo, the lot is approximately two the lot is approximately two acres just north of Hatfield acres just north of Hatfield Buick, in between seventh and Buick, in between seventh and ninth Street and adjacent to ninth Street and adjacent to the arrow rail line. To the arrow rail line.

[52:52] To summarize, staff are seeking summarize, staff are seeking guidance from the City Council guidance from the City Council if they should continue the if they should continue the pursuit of the construction of pursuit of the construction of the parking lot. With current the parking lot. With current budget constraints, staff budget constraints, staff cannot recommend either option.

[53:01] cannot recommend either option. Depending on council direction, Depending on council direction, staff will either pursue a staff will either pursue a lease of the parcel, lease of the parcel, acquisition of the parcel, or acquisition of the parcel, or will put an indefinite hold on will put an indefinite hold on the project until directed

[53:09] the project until directed otherwise by the council. I'm otherwise by the council. I'm happy to answer any question happy to answer any question you have. you have.

[53:20] Any questions for staff? Uh, Any questions for staff? Uh, what budget line item would what budget line item would this these funds be coming this these funds be coming from? from? It's currently currently It's currently currently unfunded. unfunded. Oh, currently. Oh, currently. It's currently unfunded. So we It's currently unfunded. So we would have to make cuts in would have to make cuts in other areas to be able to other areas to be able to pursue this.

[53:29] That's why we pursue this. That's why we wanted to talk about it wanted to talk about it tonight. Uh, because we have tonight. Uh, because we have been in discussions with SBC, been in discussions with SBC, to and quite frankly, we just to and quite frankly, we just don't want to waste their time

[53:38] don't want to waste their time if we're not going to be moving if we're not going to be moving forward. Uh, but if the council forward. Uh, but if the council wished to move forward, we'd wished to move forward, we'd have to find additional cuts have to find additional cuts somewhere else.

[53:47] And and see somewhere else. And and see about completing the deal. about completing the deal. If we entered into an agreement If we entered into an agreement with SB, CTA to lease it, do we with SB, CTA to lease it, do we have to develop it right now to have to develop it right now to be parking? Um, what I'm

[53:57] be parking? Um, what I'm getting at is, is, I mean, if getting at is, is, I mean, if we said in five years we want we said in five years we want to develop it for parking, but to develop it for parking, but we want to have a lease that

[54:03] we want to have a lease that we're not paying for, it seems we're not paying for, it seems at least we've locked up the at least we've locked up the property at that point. Um, but property at that point.

[54:08] Um, but but is their intent, like, hey, but is their intent, like, hey, if we lease it to you that you if we lease it to you that you have to use it for parking and have to use it for parking and you have to do it now. you have to do it now.

[54:12] So to answer your question, So to answer your question, there is a time period as as to there is a time period as as to when they anticipate it's a when they anticipate it's a couple of months. They want couple of months. They want some kind of an activity on some kind of an activity on there beforehand.

[54:19] I've kind of there beforehand. I've kind of had to fend them off just a had to fend them off just a little bit right now just to little bit right now just to say, hey, we're going to take say, hey, we're going to take it to our council to seek it to our council to seek approval for funding of the

[54:24] approval for funding of the lot. lot. Any idea what they're going to Any idea what they're going to do with it if we don't move on do with it if we don't move on it? it? As of right now, they have no As of right now, they have no plans for it. plans for it. Okay. Thank you.

[54:31] Okay. Thank you. Do you have any updates on the Do you have any updates on the mall parking situation and how mall parking situation and how long we plan on renting those long we plan on renting those spaces? spaces? They have not delivered any They have not delivered any documents to us for to look

[54:45] documents to us for to look over what they plan to do with over what they plan to do with the property. So right now we the property. So right now we don't know. Um, I would don't know.

[54:55] Um, I would anticipate we always thought anticipate we always thought that they would be coming back that they would be coming back this fall, uh, and bring this this fall, uh, and bring this up. And once they get moving, up. And once they get moving, they tend to want to move they tend to want to move pretty quickly. Uh, so my best pretty quickly.

[55:05] Uh, so my best guess right now is that early guess right now is that early next calendar year, if they next calendar year, if they were to bring things to us and, were to bring things to us and, and get through the process, it and get through the process, it might be mid-winter to early might be mid-winter to early spring when they'd want to

[55:15] spring when they'd want to start construction. Uh, that start construction. Uh, that might be too ambitious. But might be too ambitious. But once they start construction, once they start construction, they'll need the whole property they'll need the whole property to be able to do that. And to be able to do that.

[55:25] And probably a lot across the probably a lot across the street as a staging area. So, street as a staging area. So, uh, I would be very surprised uh, I would be very surprised if we don't lose all those if we don't lose all those spaces sometimes next year. spaces sometimes next year.

[55:34] Can we go back to the Can we go back to the illustration on where you illustration on where you proposed that parking is okay? proposed that parking is okay? Um, between you and I, I think Um, between you and I, I think we're wasting our time. People we're wasting our time.

[55:43] People are not going to park there and are not going to park there and walk across the street. We walk across the street. We can't even get people to park can't even get people to park across the street from across the street from underneath the ground parking, underneath the ground parking, which is available to walk which is available to walk across the street grounds,

[55:50] across the street grounds, Bloor. And that's further away. Bloor. And that's further away. If we develop it, there aren't If we develop it, there aren't going to use it. Okay, I think going to use it. Okay, I think we're wasting our time even we're wasting our time even looking at that.

[55:59] That's just looking at that. That's just too far away. Given what our too far away. Given what our history has been about parking, history has been about parking, we're better off developing we're better off developing this property we're on because this property we're on because it's right across the street

[56:07] it's right across the street than we are putting any money than we are putting any money over there, in my opinion. But over there, in my opinion. But I think we're a waste of time. I think we're a waste of time. I wondered the same thing, just I wondered the same thing, just about just willingness.

[56:15] about just willingness. Like I said, we have we have we Like I said, we have we have we have plenty of parking across have plenty of parking across the street underneath the the street underneath the Centennial Plaza, and people Centennial Plaza, and people aren't using that. And that's aren't using that.

[56:22] And that's right across the street from right across the street from downtown. Do you think they're downtown. Do you think they're going to go two blocks away and going to go two blocks away and come across? Not a chance. come across? Not a chance. Okay. Okay.

[56:34] So I guess the direction is So I guess the direction is that we, um, from what I hear, that we, um, from what I hear, if this consensus is just to if this consensus is just to not pursue the lease agreement not pursue the lease agreement with SBC to for. with SBC to for. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. Oh. Thank you. Um, I'm sorry. Oh. Thank you. Um, we have a public comment, Mr.

[56:46] we have a public comment, Mr. Dennis Bell, I apologize. Dennis Bell, I apologize. Uh, I'm not going to say what I Uh, I'm not going to say what I wrote down, but I'll agree wrote down, but I'll agree with, council members Barrett with, council members Barrett and Davis that nobody wants to

[57:08] and Davis that nobody wants to go to that Centennial Plaza go to that Centennial Plaza down there because it's very down there because it's very unsafe. Poor lighting, poor unsafe. Poor lighting, poor access and ingress down there access and ingress down there and everything else down there. and everything else down there.

[57:22] And you've got the parking lots And you've got the parking lots over there. It looks theater. over there. It looks theater. And the one behind the And the one behind the Firestone. I that don't seem to Firestone.

[57:31] I that don't seem to be used so and and I don't see be used so and and I don't see how many people actually using how many people actually using that train structure either. that train structure either. So. But yeah, nobody's going to So. But yeah, nobody's going to walk across from over there, walk across from over there, over here, especially in the over here, especially in the rain or the heat. All right. rain or the heat. All right. Thank you.

[57:41] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Is it still the consensus of Is it still the consensus of the of this council to. the of this council to. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Sorry about that. Sorry about that. Go ahead. But just for the Go ahead. But just for the record. record. Very quickly it's me again.

[57:58] Very quickly it's me again. And, uh, my comments are very And, uh, my comments are very short and probably preaching to short and probably preaching to the choir, but parking has been the choir, but parking has been an issue in Redlands since the an issue in Redlands since the invention of the automobile.

[58:07] invention of the automobile. Talk to the people that have Talk to the people that have lived here for decades and lived here for decades and decades. This has always been decades. This has always been an issue. It will continue to an issue. It will continue to be an issue.

[58:14] I'd like to see a be an issue. I'd like to see a solution. I don't know what it solution. I don't know what it is, but by comparison, I spent is, but by comparison, I spent a lot of time in Santa Monica a lot of time in Santa Monica in years ago.

[58:21] They realized in years ago. They realized that they were overrun with that they were overrun with cars even though they had a cars even though they had a train. Train was going to solve train. Train was going to solve everything. They got the train, everything. They got the train, they still had the cars.

[58:28] They they still had the cars. They sold their soul to the parking sold their soul to the parking companies. So everywhere that companies.

[58:34] So everywhere that you can park in town now is you can park in town now is that you have to pay either a that you have to pay either a parking meter at the curb or in parking meter at the curb or in a paid lot. And I kind of see a paid lot. And I kind of see where this is ultimately going. where this is ultimately going. I wish it wouldn't.

[58:40] I hope we I wish it wouldn't. I hope we can maintain free parking as can maintain free parking as long as possible. I applaud you long as possible. I applaud you for even approaching this for even approaching this issue. I served for a while on issue.

[58:48] I served for a while on the Traffic and Parking the Traffic and Parking Commission. I know how our Commission. I know how our discussions went. I know the discussions went.

[58:58] I know the money the city spent to do a money the city spent to do a parking study, which basically parking study, which basically was a eyewash and window was a eyewash and window dressing, so good luck with it. dressing, so good luck with it. Come up with something. Come up with something. Hopefully it'll be free and Hopefully it'll be free and we'll see what happens during we'll see what happens during the mall. Uh, development. the mall. Uh, development.

[59:08] That's going to be a disaster That's going to be a disaster for a couple of years, and for a couple of years, and people are not realizing the people are not realizing the impact that's going to have on impact that's going to have on the Redlands Bowl on parades, the Redlands Bowl on parades, downtown and other events.

[59:15] downtown and other events. There's a there's not a lot of, There's a there's not a lot of, uh, feel good on the horizon uh, feel good on the horizon for parking, but good luck with for parking, but good luck with it. it. Thank you. Thank you. I had one question for staff.

[59:23] I had one question for staff. Um, can you go back to that Um, can you go back to that slide on how much? Uh, per slide on how much? Uh, per space, even utilizing this space, even utilizing this property, uh, for the cost of property, uh, for the cost of those, uh, parking structure.

[59:35] those, uh, parking structure. So for 48. So for 48. 48,000 for sparkling parking 48,000 for sparkling parking space and then 51,390 per space and then 51,390 per parking space, if we used a parking space, if we used a mixed development. So that's mixed development.

[59:50] So that's that's pretty expensive, even that's pretty expensive, even though it's on our property. So though it's on our property. So either way, uh, whether you either way, uh, whether you walk or it's close to downtown, walk or it's close to downtown, you're going to have to pay for you're going to have to pay for it.

[59:59] So just want to point that it. So just want to point that out. out. Thank you. Thank you. Just a question. I know that Just a question. I know that there were some issues with there were some issues with parking at the Lake Theater and parking at the Lake Theater and people were getting towed.

[1:00:04] And people were getting towed. And I understand that something I understand that something just changed. And now that just changed. And now that people are allowed to park people are allowed to park there, um, I don't know if there, um, I don't know if that's true if you guys have

[1:00:11] that's true if you guys have heard that at all, but I've heard that at all, but I've heard that that now it's not heard that that now it's not obviously it's not city, but obviously it's not city, but since it's been purchased now, since it's been purchased now, they've decided that they're no

[1:00:17] they've decided that they're no longer going to tow out of longer going to tow out of there and that's available there and that's available parking. I'll have. parking. I'll have. To defer to anybody up here. I To defer to anybody up here. I have not heard that. have not heard that. Okay.

[1:00:23] Okay. I thought that on social media, I thought that on social media, the Redlands Public Market said the Redlands Public Market said people can park there now. people can park there now. Okay, I heard that rumor. And Okay, I heard that rumor.

[1:00:31] And so I was just curious if that so I was just curious if that is because who knows when is because who knows when they're going to develop that they're going to develop that there's certainly some parking there's certainly some parking there. there.

[1:00:37] We can reach out to the We can reach out to the property owner and ask what he property owner and ask what he knows and refer that back to knows and refer that back to the council. Once we find. the council. Once we find. Out. Out. It would be good to know. And, It would be good to know. And, Mr.

[1:00:42] Bell, I will say that I've Mr. Bell, I will say that I've been over to the parking been over to the parking structure a few times, and it structure a few times, and it is starting to get more use. is starting to get more use. Uh, certainly more than it was Uh, certainly more than it was in the beginning.

[1:00:48] It's getting in the beginning. It's getting a little tougher to find a spot a little tougher to find a spot over there. So. over there. So. And Mr. Bell brought up another And Mr. Bell brought up another location, uh, behind the location, uh, behind the Firestone.

[1:00:55] I'm not sure who Firestone. I'm not sure who owns that or what the liability owns that or what the liability is for that or who. is for that or who. The private for that. The private for that. Yeah. So I don't think that's Yeah. So I don't think that's public parking. public parking. Yes. Um, it's.

[1:01:07] Yes. Um, it's. It's not the one across the It's not the one across the street. That's that's. street. That's that's. From Jay Riley. From Jay Riley. It's not that one. It's I It's not that one. It's I think. Are you talking about think.

[1:01:13] Are you talking about that one? Are you talking about that one? Are you talking about the actual Firestone property the actual Firestone property itself? itself? It's behind Firestone. It's behind Firestone. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Across from last point. Across from last point. Yeah. Parking there. Um, Cedar Yeah. Parking there. Um, Cedar city. city. Usually escape and Jay Riley Usually escape and Jay Riley people parking there.

[1:01:27] people parking there. Yeah. Yeah. On that one. Yeah. That's On that one. Yeah. That's that's privately private. that's privately private. Right. Right.

[1:01:37] I'll again I'll go back to the I'll again I'll go back to the parking people, the people that parking people, the people that are going to park and look, are going to park and look, parking weren't going downtown. parking weren't going downtown. They were going to the, to the They were going to the, to the to the public. Yeah. To the to the public. Yeah. To the public market and everything. public market and everything.

[1:01:45] So whatever we do then that's So whatever we do then that's not going to solve the problem not going to solve the problem of downtown. of downtown. I don't know that we're just I don't know that we're just talking about downtown. I think talking about downtown. I think we're just talking. we're just talking. About in general. About in general. General.

[1:01:52] Yes, I understand General. Yes, I understand that. that. But if people are parking But if people are parking somewhere closer to downtown somewhere closer to downtown and and going to the public and and going to the public market, maybe they park in the market, maybe they park in the parking lot now and it does

[1:01:59] parking lot now and it does free something else up over free something else up over there. So, you know, there's there. So, you know, there's it's kind of a it's kind of a it's kind of a it's kind of a dance over there to try to find dance over there to try to find a spot.

[1:02:03] a spot. So no, no, I understand we'll So no, no, I understand we'll have to get a hold of. Mr. have to get a hold of. Mr. Robinson owns the property. See Robinson owns the property. See what he's what he's And I do. It's.

[1:02:10] But again, it And I do. It's. But again, it goes back to people. Unless goes back to people. Unless you're unless you're right you're unless you're right across the street. We're across the street. We're unfortunate. We're just we've unfortunate.

[1:02:18] We're just we've been spoiled because all been spoiled because all through our history has been through our history has been parking has been really close, parking has been really close, either in front or something of either in front or something of that sort. And we've been in that sort. And we've been in part we've been, as Mr. Holder part we've been, as Mr.

[1:02:25] Holder said, we've been addressing said, we've been addressing this for some time. I know this for some time. I know several times when I was a several times when I was a couple of times the Chamber of couple of times the Chamber of Commerce, we had studies, and Commerce, we had studies, and every single time I said, well,

[1:02:31] every single time I said, well, Jesus, we do a study. The city Jesus, we do a study. The city spends all this money and it spends all this money and it sits there and collects dust on sits there and collects dust on someone's someone's, um, um, someone's someone's, um, um, back of someone's desk.

[1:02:39] And back of someone's desk. And we're doing the same thing we're doing the same thing here. I'm like, heck, with some here. I'm like, heck, with some studies. We have plenty of studies. We have plenty of studies. Let's do something studies. Let's do something about it. about it.

[1:02:47] If there aren't any more If there aren't any more discussions, I want to thank discussions, I want to thank staff for a comprehensive staff for a comprehensive report. It was really a report. It was really a detailed and very informative, detailed and very informative, very comprehensive. So I want very comprehensive.

[1:02:56] So I want to thank you for all the time to thank you for all the time that you've put into this that you've put into this report. I believe there will be report. I believe there will be no action taken on this item. no action taken on this item.

[1:03:07] Uh, moving forward with that, Uh, moving forward with that, there aren't any other there aren't any other questions or comments from our questions or comments from our city manager or anybody else. city manager or anybody else. We stand adjourned. Thank you.

Redlands City Council Special Meeting September 21, 2026

Transcript