[0:00] The City Council of the City Assembly will hold a workshop meeting on Tuesday, January 18, 2022, at 6.30 pm, because

[0:06] Senator Bethany and I, as witness, will start with that, and to discuss the creation of a charter review committee.

[0:27] Can you hear me now? Okay. Mayor and Council, as you can see on this agenda item, the way it was listed, I was asked by a couple of council members, as well as the mayor to go ahead and put this item on here as a workshop discussion.

[0:44] And gauge council's interest and allow you to have a discussion about the creation of a charter review committee and so I have no prepared item for this.

[0:54] It's really just an opportunity for you all to ask any questions or have a conversation amongst yourselves is what you'd like to do next and give staff direction on what you'd like us to do.

[1:05] So Mayor, with that I'll turn it over to you to open the bill.

[1:08] So that was one to see this come forward if they'd like to have some information or something to speak on on this item.

[1:16] I do think it's been held on since we've had our last charter with me.

[1:22] I actually have that right here.

[1:24] It was 2012 and before that it was 2006.

[1:28] Okay, and they pretty much discussed a variety of items as I recall, and it's pretty much an open discussion for things that need to be reviewed in the charter.

[1:40] So there might be some things that I don't know if staff has any items that need to be cleaned up or done through a charter review at all or any items they've even looked at.

[1:50] But there may be some things that you all might bring forward to the committee.

[1:53] I think there's probably some cleanup that can be done within the charter, I think there's some inconsistencies among some of the items that nothing of note more just some clean up as some language.

[2:06] But I want to make sure I stand corrected, so there was a, I apologize, I looked at the dates wrong, so there was a charter change in 2013.

[2:16] there was a charter change in 2012 and there was another one in 2006. So, those were the last charter

[2:27] review commission. Usually, the council usually prepares and puts together, maybe one or two,

[2:34] it's usually two members of the citizens to serve on this committee and go over the various items

[2:44] They may want to come up with a citizens or that we may want to suggest to the committee.

[2:49] So there's things like that we want to discuss as far as the number of citizens we do on that charter review.

[2:56] Who would be, would you be willing to serve as a mediator or whatever or do we need to?

[3:04] How do you want to do that when they do meet as far as from staff?

[3:09] Actually, I would prefer Lauren Rose assistant city manager to take point on that.

[3:14] Lauren did that in a previous city before she got here.

[3:18] So she's well versed in how to do a charter route committee.

[3:22] So I'm not concerned from that perspective.

[3:24] Incidentally, I did ask department heads today in staff meeting.

[3:28] If they had any concerns specifically within the charter to bring those forward to me.

[3:32] And I could share those with the council.

[3:34] what there were any inconsistencies,

[3:35] again, any issues that they saw within there

[3:38] as it related to their departments

[3:39] that we can bring those forward.

[3:40] You're as part of that.

[3:42] So that's kind of what we would be doing.

[3:44] We would be suggesting things ourselves

[3:46] to the committee, possibly.

[3:48] But it would really be up to that committee

[3:50] what they brought forward to the council

[3:52] for our charter review to look at.

[3:55] And so there's various items and things

[3:58] that they can look at.

[3:59] And so I want to open up to Councilor King

[4:02] to need suggestions or any thing that I haven't or that we may want to do here. So go ahead.

[4:09] Sure. I was one of the ones suggesting a charter review. We started suggesting this.

[4:17] Probably a little over a year and a half. I don't recall it was prior to the bond.

[4:23] We decided back then to hold off on the bond with COVID going on and the bonds going on. We didn't

[4:29] to add the confusion of a charter review on top of the bond.

[4:34] So this was the timing that I was shooting for to look at a charter review.

[4:38] There's a number of things that probably need to be looked at.

[4:41] On the charter one is how often we actually do a review.

[4:45] It's certainly recommended to go do a charter review every five to ten years.

[4:50] It's been a while.

[4:51] It's been longer than that since we've had one.

[4:54] So it would be suggested to look into that.

[4:56] And now there is also an initiative out there by a citizen to take a look at term limits, certainly

[5:03] if that petition doesn't quite make, charter review would have the option of taking

[5:08] both at term limits for the council.

[5:12] For anything for that matter, for any of our boards.

[5:15] But I think it's time to do a charter review I'd like to see as do one, like Mayor said.

[5:21] In the past, we have a point at each council person who has appointed two members, each should

[5:27] we decide to go forward with the Charger Review.

[5:30] I think that's probably what we should do.

[5:32] I would much rather have a group of 14 citizens making suggestions for the Charger Review rather

[5:43] than a smaller number, but that's my feeling under the Charger Review.

[5:47] I think we're long overdue for one, and I'd like to see as push that forward.

[5:53] Should an external petition happened if the firm of the petition that's out there happens,

[6:01] that could be taken off the table.

[6:03] This is not something that is competing with any existing initiative.

[6:09] This is something that we need to do for our charter of irregardless of what happens external.

[6:22] I think my questions were answered.

[6:24] I was going to ask how often are these normally done,

[6:26] which he said five to eight years or so,

[6:29] what's normal or what's this kind of?

[6:32] It's as a city cease fit.

[6:34] There have been several done here.

[6:36] I was previously in a city.

[6:38] The two cities I was in,

[6:40] one never came up,

[6:41] but they had gotten farther along in terms of development of policies

[6:44] and probably did a lot more charter amendments early on.

[6:47] Okay. Yeah. And then my next question was, do we have, do you like to go through every section and look at it or is it just people have ideas that they want to see things change?

[6:57] I didn't think we were operating at a disadvantage on things. So I just did not know there were problems that are percolating that I hadn't heard in, as regards the charters.

[7:08] Well, I haven't, like I said, there hasn't been any pressing items from staff, saying, no, this really needs to be looked out.

[7:15] we don't have anything that's out out there where we need to really be looking at.

[7:20] So, I mean, there's various things in the past that were done and, you know, we went from

[7:24] that large to places at one time. And so, you know, various things like that. And so, if there's

[7:35] not, then it would just be up to, I mean, there's got to be, if there's any direction, we want to,

[7:40] at least let them know from staff level or from council level, we could, you know, let's

[7:45] know what those things are to be looked at. And then they may look at some other things too,

[7:51] so. And there's been various discussions during those times, like you said,

[7:56] they've never come out with the term limits from those charter views in the past,

[8:01] but, you know, they also looked at council pay, things, you know, cities, we've never paid

[8:06] Council, anything. I think most cities around here do, but I will go out on a limb right now,

[8:11] not even a limb. I don't want to see this paid, but that's just my view. I've done it long

[8:18] up to where I don't see that it's a volunteer position. I think it's great that it would stay that way,

[8:25] but I don't have control over that in the future, but that's what I feel about it. So there's

[8:29] It's very sad and it's like that that can be brought up.

[8:32] Okay, I just had some being relatively new here.

[8:36] I'd get a lay of a land here.

[8:38] Right.

[8:39] Mayor Proke and Biggerston.

[8:41] Thank you, Mayor.

[8:42] I wasn't one of the council members that had initially asked this be on the agenda, but when

[8:46] I found that it was, I certainly wasn't opposed to that.

[8:50] As Ms. Nash had mentioned, and Councilman Howard that kind of alluded to, we don't have

[8:56] regular schedule, if you will, the charter doesn't provide for, it shall be updated so many

[9:02] after so many years. I served on the last charter you commissioned back in 2013, and so it's

[9:09] been almost 10 years since we did one. You know, since I have a planning background, I'm always

[9:14] of the impression that, you know, I think it's always a good idea to review documents every

[9:20] so often, you know, you could have a set limit or maybe just a range, something like that,

[9:25] So I don't think it's a bad thing at all.

[9:28] Now, on the flip side, and again, Ms. Nash alluded to this,

[9:31] is that if there's something in the charter,

[9:34] or several things in the charter that we need to, like that,

[9:37] then we definitely need to do that regardless of what they are,

[9:41] however, if for whatever reason, there's not a big push

[9:45] that we need to change anything, I don't also think

[9:48] we need to do one just to do one.

[9:51] But my instinct would tell you that since it's been almost 10

[9:54] I would guess that it would probably be a good idea to have one, regardless of whether issues

[10:00] have come up recently or in the past, I think it's always a great idea to review that.

[10:05] So if it were to go forward, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to that, but it's something

[10:12] that we should always look at because our charter is our Constitution, and we need to make

[10:18] sure that that's up to date, and as you can tell, if you look at the charter we have

[10:22] this copy given to us tonight, you just pick a year, 86, 94, or 2013, you know, it's been done

[10:29] probably when it's an issue came up that we needed to address. So, like I said, when I

[10:33] started on it in 2013, I don't remember what I thought in the head, but I think we sent a couple

[10:38] different initiatives to change the charter back then. So, with that, like I said, didn't necessarily

[10:44] call for it to be out here, but I'm not opposed us looking at it. Councilman Franks.

[10:50] I have no issues. I don't want to stay in the way of one, but I don't have any issues to change.

[10:55] So I've got much shorter than Councilman Bigger's death.

[10:58] Councilman King?

[10:59] No, I didn't buy a pledge. You're back up.

[11:02] Councilman Lindsey.

[11:04] You mentioned Council pay mayor pay.

[11:06] You definitely don't want to see that.

[11:07] And not even disguise in a form like a stipend or anything else.

[11:10] Zero compensation.

[11:12] Fair reimbursement of course for any mandated travel though.

[11:16] But anyway, just sort of throw it out there first though.

[11:18] And one of the things that I've already heard a certain from, and it's just, I know we've

[11:25] been talking about doing a chart review.

[11:27] That was one of the first things that I asked, and I agree with Councilman King over here

[11:30] with the timing of the bond election, and they got moved to the next year.

[11:34] And so in my mind, positively overdue for a chart review.

[11:39] But in a parallel effort, there's now a petition that's gotten a lot of traction, it's likely

[11:45] to get enough signatures to be on the ballot.

[11:49] So I'm trying to figure out, I don't know if this is a question for Joe or hopefully

[11:53] Lauren or Gina, you know, you're able to answer though, but if what's going through with

[12:00] that ballot that Ms. Martin has out there that she's circulating with it, past term limits

[12:06] by ordinance or would it be a modification to our charter?

[12:11] I'd have to get clarification on that because that's the first side heard of it being

[12:16] saying it said that it was an ordinance change. I was under the understanding it would

[12:19] be a charter change but the only thing I do know is that if that was to pass that the charter

[12:27] could not be amended to change it for two years, say if the charter say if you did do this

[12:33] committee, and that item passed by the voters, it could not be changed for up to two years.

[12:42] Because I've been asked that question, so I'm just not saying I just, I was a question

[12:45] that was asked of me, so probably get a regret saying that later, but I just understood

[12:51] it.

[12:52] Why had I been awarded?

[12:53] It's that's been my interpretation, this is the only way that you can do it with the charter

[12:57] amendment.

[12:58] So, that's just, this is a part that concerns me as, you know, we, I think what I had

[13:02] series events happen. I think this is kind of elevated a little bit on the

[13:08] narrative to get the attention of Council though, but now I'm afraid that this

[13:13] goes through, then how does it even work? If it's modifying the charter over there

[13:18] can we even do a charter review at that point? And if we did a charter review

[13:22] would you just be waiting for two years before you could act on anything from

[13:26] the charter? So I think we really need the the attorney to be able to answer

[13:31] or just some of the questions on there.

[13:35] So I don't know if we can proceed or not.

[13:36] I'm offered for proceeding if we're not stepping

[13:38] on top of a citizen initiative.

[13:40] My hope is that it can go along with that parallel

[13:43] for it that's just looking at term limits.

[13:46] And then this chart review committee

[13:48] can look at everything else.

[13:49] I don't want to see something that comes on the ballot.

[13:51] I don't think it even could or where there's

[13:54] charted review term limits that came out from the committee.

[13:58] And then there's a citizen one.

[13:59] And it's like which one wins, you know, it's right.

[14:02] I didn't speak to the city attorney about that.

[14:05] And his recommendation was if you all wanted to move forward with the charter review,

[14:09] you talk about all of those other things and continue moving on that and then see what

[14:14] ends up happening with this petition and you know, we can kind of have a decision tree after

[14:18] that.

[14:19] Okay.

[14:19] Well, it sounds like then we can at least, we're safe to at least proceed.

[14:22] Absolutely.

[14:23] So it may come up at a later point just based on the action, outside actions of this

[14:27] council that could influence it. So I'm definitely out for proceeding. I think we're long

[14:32] overdue. I'd like to see a charter amendment that says we need to do a review of at least

[14:36] every five to ten years. I'm always using for all that as an example. I just, you know, it's

[14:41] a sister city and I've looked through their charter and comparing notes with some of the

[14:46] council members over there, you know, they tell me these things. I'm like, how are you even doing

[14:51] this? How are you able to make these things happen? And I find that there's many things within

[14:56] and they're chartered that gives the council various.

[15:00] Abilities that they can do. Ultimately, a council member should never direct, you know, staff of what to do.

[15:07] I mean, any regard, and I think that even, you know, goes up to state law, though, but there's, for example, over in a row,

[15:13] let, you know, I had difficulties just showing up at our animal shelter and, you know, breaking the chain of command of, you know,

[15:20] between the city manager and employee. I want it written so that I can go and I can talk to any employee within our city.

[15:27] get their reviews now. Again, that comes with the strings attached, and they fully, everybody

[15:32] I've ever talked to over in Raleigh. Raleigh Council member fully understands. It's, it's

[15:37] interview only. It's never to tell that person or even to suggest it in which way possible

[15:42] of House here is how I think you should do your job. Because that's certainly now the council's

[15:46] position. That is the city manager. That's what we hire the city manager for and trust her and do.

[15:52] So those are just some of the things that I would like to see in this chart of Raleigh,

[15:56] I would definitely believe we're overdue and could not be more excited to get a group of citizens together and get their thoughts to citizens per council member sounds like an excellent idea.

[16:06] Thank you.

[16:08] So I would not want it to go for months and months. I think this is something that can be done within maybe four or five meetings I would think.

[16:16] So, yeah, so I don't think something that has to carry on and carry on, so that would be something I would really want to look at maybe four or five meetings to do this and maybe just one introductory meeting and then maybe four or five meetings to get the work done.

[16:33] And then they would report the findings and come back to the council with us.

[16:38] For a recommendation, correct?

[16:40] Okay. Mayor, what I could do if the council is good with this, I could come back with a presentation in another workshop that kind of outlines what a model would be like in terms of timing of how you could when you could do appointments.

[16:56] When meetings could potential be scheduled.

[16:59] What within the charter are potentially could be some initiatives that may want to be discussed.

[17:06] all that we could just kind of put a whole framework together for you all to consider.

[17:10] And a deadline for when we need to come forward with the names of those citizens.

[17:15] Yes, absolutely. We couldn't do that too.

[17:16] And if we have that schedule, it'll be a lot easier to discuss things with the citizens.

[17:22] We went on there and tell them what this is going to entail and how long and things like that.

[17:26] Yes, I think that helped with the bond committee too when they understood what their charge was

[17:30] and what their commit time commitments were. It seemed to kind of help people,

[17:34] I know when you all work choosing people you could say here's what we would expect from you and here's what kind of time commitment

[17:41] And I think it made it easier and you're all to make those choice. Okay

[17:46] Any anything else on the chart

[17:48] Do you have anything that we discuss on any agenda items?

[17:54] No, no agenda. Okay at this time going to close the workshop and we'll have about 10 minutes before we start our meeting

Jan 18, 2022 Workshop & City Council

Transcript