[0:00] Okay, I'd like to welcome everybody to the uh September 3rd meeting of the town

[0:03] board of the town of Southeast. If we could rise for the pledge of allegiance.

[0:07] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

[0:12] republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[0:17] justice for all.

[0:21] » Thank you. If I can remind everybody of the exits, there's two exits in the back

[0:24] of the room and one exit up here to the left of of uh of us. Um, and with that,

[0:30] if everybody could either uh turn off their cell phones or come on vibrate,

[0:34] that would be great. And I ask the clerk for roll call.

[0:38] » Yes. >> Councilman Cypress

[0:41] » here. >> Councilman Larka

[0:42] » here. >> Councilwoman Lewis

[0:44] » here. Councilman Mazada >> here.

[0:47] » Supervisor Castellano >> present. Thank you.

[0:49] » Thank you. >> I'll make a motion to come out of

[0:51] executive session. No action was taken. >> Second.

[0:54] » Thank you. All in favor? >> I. Going on to our work session. We have

[0:59] a discussion tonight agricultural districts and I'm turn it over to

[1:02] Councilman Marca. >> Yeah. Um is Cassandra is that would you

[1:07] mind coming up or do you want me to just go through a few things? Um so uh thank

[1:12] you for coming. Um we've had this on the agenda a lot. There's been a lot of back

[1:16] and forth uh between us and the a board and the county. Um the concerns all

[1:22] started we we get complaints about some of the properties in the a district and

[1:27] um we were under the impression that we couldn't do anything with those

[1:30] complaints. Um and we really don't have a a say in the approval and then we kind

[1:36] of found out that we could do that. Um our our ask was that neighboring

[1:41] properties be notified if an if a property owner made an application to

[1:45] the egg district. So at least they would be aware that um that property may get

[1:50] some protections. And throughout the back and forth it seemed like there

[1:54] really aren't any protections. However, they do have an escalation process as

[2:00] being part of the egg board where they can um uh get uh the state to determine

[2:05] that one of our codes is unreasonable, which would help them. Um in terms of

[2:11] the public notice process, it it I still don't can't wrap my head around that

[2:16] answer, but what we uh it sounded like the county didn't want to do it. The a

[2:20] board doesn't have to do it, but we sent notification to those neighboring

[2:24] properties just as a heads up. um a little bit later than I would have liked

[2:27] to have done that. Um so I'm I'm really glad you came. There's a few questions

[2:34] uh because there is some confusion that I'd like to ask. Um and so I'll just

[2:39] start with the first one. So can you tell us a little bit about the a

[2:42] district a board soil water uh board and what you guys do? And

[2:47] » that is perfect. So I was about to say well I'm done here. You've answered

[2:50] everything for everybody and [laughter] I'm going to go home. Um, so it's really

[2:55] also I have to say I'm used to legislature meetings where executive

[2:58] session is never in the beginning and always forever and uh anything soil and

[3:02] water and a is always last. So thank you. Um not that that

[3:06] [clears throat and snorts] was done intentionally but it is much

[3:07] appreciated. >> Always intentional

[3:09] » super thankful for that. Um but uh yeah and so again to the concerns that you've

[3:14] had and I think that's the broader thing. Um you know we discussed there's

[3:17] been lots of emails and I I think the town board was copied on them so whether

[3:21] you read through all of them it was a lot. Um, and I think the basis of it is

[3:25] there's always been a misconception um, you know, from municipalities and from

[3:30] land owners that like once you're an a district, you can do anything you want

[3:33] to. Um, and and that would be terrible because you guys have to deal with not

[3:36] only complaints about, you know, agricultural properties, but you got to

[3:39] deal complaints about everything, right? And so to hear, oh, we can't do anything

[3:44] about that. That obviously is not something that, you know, a town would

[3:46] want to hear because how do you tell your residents? Um, so that is a good

[3:51] point to clear up that you do have the authority like the a district program.

[3:55] So I guess I'll start with that. The a district program is supposed to create a

[3:58] mediation in between. So there's state agriculture protections for agricultural

[4:02] practices. That doesn't mean if you're a farm, you can do anything you want to.

[4:06] It is a case-byase review. If you're in the a district, a municipality can reach

[4:11] out for a specific practice. Say somebody comes to you and complains and

[4:15] says, "I don't like this." you or the land owner or both could reach out. It's

[4:20] called a 305A review for the exact practice on that exact farm for that

[4:23] exact instance and then the agon markets would guide you and say reasonable

[4:27] unreasonable and they give you an idea of like okay you want to do this does it

[4:30] impact public health and safety that is the big thing where if it impacts public

[4:34] health and safety no farm wins right that is across the board if it's in

[4:39] instances of certain fees certain regulations certain things like that the

[4:43] state may say no they may say work with them they may say different things but

[4:47] that's something that the state has statuto criteria of what is permissible

[4:51] for a versus regular properties keeping in mind there's a state constitutional

[4:55] right to farm and they kept that in mind knowing there would be development

[4:58] pressures over the years which there were um so it's not something that a lot

[5:02] of people think you get in and you can do anything you want to you still and I

[5:06] cannot say this enough I've said it everywhere they quoted in a paper

[5:08] finally it took years all farms must follow all local laws all the time now

[5:14] the caveat to that is if you have overburdensome laws on your books that

[5:18] are in controvention to the state statute. That's where Agon markets would

[5:21] come in and say, "Hey, maybe you should relook at this. Is there a way that you

[5:24] can come to an agreement?" >> And Agon Markets is the state

[5:29] organization, not your board, right? >> No. So the state, Agon Markets, right?

[5:33] They're the ones that are the decision makers, the mediators, if there are

[5:37] concerns. Um, anybody whether they're in the act district or not, like a town can

[5:41] solicit an opinion from Agon Markets on anything. You can email them, you can

[5:45] call them, they'll ask you. They have counsel. They have a number of people in

[5:48] their staffs. They can answer any question. If you want a formal opinion,

[5:51] anybody can do that. Any member of the public, any land owner, anybody. If

[5:55] you're in the A district, that's when you can solicit a 305A review, which is

[5:59] on a specific agricultural practice at a specific farm, and they go case by case.

[6:04] They talk to the town, they talk to the landowner, and they work with you

[6:07] through there. So, that's only if you're in the A district. The A district

[6:11] technically is a state program, but it is administered locally by the counties.

[6:15] And the reason they did that was counties can opt in or choose not to opt

[6:19] in. Putnham County back [clears throat] in 1997 chose to I'm sorry, 2003 chose

[6:23] to opt in. Now, since 2003, I think from 2003 to probably 2015, everything was

[6:29] cool. Everybody was fine. There wasn't any problems. Um and I think a part of

[6:33] it is we get to so [clears throat] the county is who administers the a district

[6:38] program includes parcels or removes parcels at the county level that keeps

[6:42] the component of home rule without it being town by town right um but to that

[6:47] end you have a farmland protection board so that is the um it's the a and

[6:52] farmland protection board that was established before the districts in 1997

[6:57] that is an advisory board we can tell the legislature all we want to they

[7:00] don't have to Um so that is something where you saw

[7:03] the farm protection plan the last time that was done was 2004 long time ago

[7:08] hasn't been updated. Um problem with that is as an advisory board to the

[7:12] legislature we have no the a board has no authority. Um I buy my role in soil

[7:17] and water which I'll get to in a second. I have an ex official seat on the a

[7:21] board. So there is uh soil and water there is the tax commissioner rail

[7:25] property and tax there is the planning commissioner for the county a

[7:28] representative from Cornell and then it is six uh practical farmers there's

[7:32] different breakdown of those that doesn't matter I won't bore you with

[7:35] that but it's to give you a basis of land use for planning for tax for you

[7:40] know different government seats there's also a legislative representative to

[7:43] that board as well and that depends the legislature appoints all of those people

[7:47] and that's what guides them in what do we do how do we you know do educational

[7:52] programs. So there is in the farmland protection plan from 2004 the a board

[7:57] was tasked with doing that. What I will say is that uh try to happen a few times

[8:02] in the last few years and people were removed from the board. Um and that's

[8:06] just the way it went. So a lot of people just stopped answering emails because

[8:09] why would you answer an email and you could get thrown off a volunteer board.

[8:12] Enter soil and water. Um so water conservation district was established in

[8:17] 1966 in Putham County. We were the second to last uh county to get in. But

[8:22] we are an independent municipality. Where that veered is in 1993. Um it

[8:28] ended up getting absorbed into county government which meant that the soil and

[8:31] water district could no longer be independent for conservation and its own

[8:35] independent voice. Our only role is soil and water conservation. That's it. We're

[8:41] not any county policy. We do not speak on behalf of the county. We speak on

[8:44] behalf of the science and the conservation. That's why I'm here. I

[8:49] can't be thrown off the board. I can't be thrown off the board. It is very

[8:52] specific in soil and water law. It is I'm appointed by the legislature as our

[8:55] other board members are. There is a farm bureau representative. There is a

[8:59] graange representative, a uh standard land owner at large and two legislators.

[9:05] And then we are supposed to take on conservation programs and education

[9:09] outreach. We do have a grant program that you guys are all going to get

[9:12] emailed and I hope you talk about it. Um, we'll probably send somebody else

[9:14] from our board next month uh to [snorts] go over that because it's about $180,000

[9:19] in grants for not only municipalities but lakes a and [snorts] uh conservation

[9:24] education assistance. So that's that's a big chunk for the local community. Um we

[9:28] were never able to do that because we were part of the county. We couldn't

[9:30] educate anybody and alleviate any of the concerns because we were part of the

[9:33] county. Um so that is the role in it and the way the act district process for

[9:38] inclusion works is it is a set time frame. the process is established by the

[9:43] state. So, I know there was conversation back and forth of we don't have enough

[9:47] time and and you know, how do we notify people? It's the same time every year.

[9:52] April 1st to April 30th is the date where people um can submit their

[9:56] applications to the ACT board. So, at that point, you wouldn't really know

[9:59] what's happening. You don't know who's applying. Then the month of May, if you

[10:02] ever wanted to watch the A board meetings, you can certainly do that. You

[10:06] can come to the Aboard meetings. You'll know who is being taken in. That is when

[10:09] the A board goes out and does site visits. Um the A district can be an open

[10:14] vacant parcel that just aids in the viability of agriculture and open space.

[10:18] Putnham County has chosen it must be a farm. I don't love that, but I don't

[10:23] fight it. You know, if it's a farm, then obviously that fits in the a district as

[10:27] as narrowly as Putnham County wants to define it. So

[10:31] with that, you have April 1 to April 30. You have May one to the end of May and

[10:35] then June it typically goes to physical services which is the legislative

[10:39] committee. Once it comes out of there it goes to the full

[10:42] » uh uh sorry if I can I interrupt you along the way cuz I have a bunch of

[10:46] questions for the timeline. Um when does the town I think we got a little bit

[10:51] late this year? >> Not really. Um and that's the other

[10:54] thing. So technically under the state law there's no requirement to do that

[10:58] besides the public hearing. The public hearing is supposed to from, you know,

[11:02] the state's perspective be the time where everybody finds out. It goes in

[11:05] the local paper. It goes on the legislative website. That is the mandate

[11:09] for the notification. >> And that public hearing is the same

[11:13] night they voted. >> Yes.

[11:15] » Yeah. I mean, well, that I, >> you know, but that is the way the

[11:18] statutory process is laid out. So, what Putham County has done is reached out

[11:22] prior and said, "Hey, this is an FYI of who's applying." Now, that has become a

[11:26] problem in the past because you have certain [snorts] things where it's a

[11:29] little bit unfair where if you say you're just going to do something at

[11:33] your house versus you're going to apply to the A district, somebody's now

[11:36] snooping through all of your stuff. Now, it's not to say you can't enforce those

[11:38] things all year round. But if in the month of April a properties get a bunch

[11:42] of violations, that seems a little unfair and that could put, you know, a

[11:45] town in jeopardy of well, why did you do this to me versus somebody else? So,

[11:49] there has been a concern on that. Now, they do notify the towns and just say,

[11:52] "Hey, this is what's going on." At that point, you talked to a markets council.

[11:57] They said, "You're free to do whatever you wish. You can notify, you can choose

[12:00] not to notify. It's up to the county >> for the for the town notification."

[12:05] Uh, I thought I thought, and maybe it's the county or I'm not sure what was

[12:09] required, but I thought we were supposed to get around the beginning of May, but

[12:12] we didn't get it till the middle of May. And maybe that's not true, but when

[12:15] should we expect to get the notification? That's not even required.

[12:19] » But it it's not required, but it's >> but PM County has chosen to do that. So

[12:24] traditionally >> to do it. So when

[12:26] » the reason why is because the applications can come in up until the

[12:30] last day of April, right? So I think this year everybody got it May 8th.

[12:35] » So >> I don't send those notifications. That

[12:36] is commissioner planning. >> Okay. So, we as a town, [snorts] and I I

[12:40] hear what you're saying that it's not, you know, required by law, but we as a

[12:44] town should expect to get a notification of applications sometime the beginning

[12:48] of May. >> I don't even want to confidently say

[12:50] that because I don't make county policy. They did that this year. I don't know.

[12:53] that's not anywhere written in stone that they have to

[12:56] » so that we can >> so I would say watch the a board meeting

[12:59] in April or in May and then you will know who's applying unequivocally

[13:05] because right now it is not written anywhere that anybody has to and the

[13:07] state's never going to mandate it. So if you want to be aware I've told this to

[13:11] other towns it's April and it's May. Um >> so are you saying that next year the

[13:16] town may not get the notification that it got this year?

[13:18] » I'm not saying that. that I'm saying I can't guarantee they will because it's

[13:21] nothing that's required in any statute. >> And is it the and you may not know the

[13:25] answer and that's fine. But is it the county who determines if that's required

[13:29] or not? >> So that's the thing. The a board is the

[13:31] advisory board to the legislature. The county makes the policy. Now from what I

[13:36] saw in the emails, and I'm not going to speak on behalf of the county, but based

[13:38] on the emails, it was the county is going to do their statutory obligation.

[13:42] Full stop. Um, not to say that the, you know, Southeast or any town can't go and

[13:48] determine more and find out more. But, you know, I can't speak on behalf of the

[13:52] county. I can just tell you what is there. I know what is guaranteed and I

[13:55] know, you know, what has been a standard practice, but I don't want to tell you

[13:59] to always expect that and then next year it doesn't happen and you're like, what

[14:02] did this lady say? >> Yeah. And this isn't on you, but I'm

[14:04] just to the board real quick. It sounds like

[14:06] » she's the only one who was willing to engage with us.

[14:08] » Yeah. Thanks for >> This is me every time. So, yep.

[14:11] » But for it sounds like the county is doing us almost like a courtesy notice

[14:16] » and all we've asked for and this >> is more notice

[14:18] » is just to tell the property neighbors which we're told they can't do because

[14:21] it's not required but what they're doing today is not required in their

[14:24] » right. I I never took it as they can't and that was my issue with all that back

[14:28] and forth and I wish that our legislators could have just responded

[14:32] when we asked a year ago but you know this this we spend more in legal fees

[14:36] writing emails on both sides but um no one argued that the county is not doing

[14:43] the minimum required by law. We just said, "Hey, you just wanted more."

[14:47] » In transparency and participation, mail a letter for us, you know.

[14:51] » Yeah. >> And that's how and then it just got

[14:53] » I have a lot of things where if a lot of things went differently, I wouldn't be

[14:56] here tonight. Um I wouldn't be the chair of the soil and water district if things

[15:00] went the way they were supposed to go all the time. Um so that was our hope. I

[15:03] mean, I'll tell you two years ago, I didn't know what a soil water district

[15:05] was. >> I had no idea. Now we've actually taken

[15:08] it out of the county, went independent. We now have an $180,000 grant program in

[15:12] less than, you know, a year and a half. um there is a a void of education and I

[15:16] think again I don't want to speak for the county but my my assumption with

[15:20] that is you know with any government do you want to say you're going to do

[15:23] something you're not responsible to do and in case you mess it up is that on

[15:28] you you know that's a liability thing that's something to again you spoke with

[15:31] legislative council you spoke with a markets council they said you you're

[15:34] welcome to do that um you know another thing is the aboard has an email you

[15:38] could on May 1st email the a board and say what are the southeast uh applicants

[15:42] » okay >> you Oh, and and again, I'm not saying

[15:44] you're right, wrong, and different, but I'm saying standard practice is what it

[15:47] is, but prescribed practice is completely different,

[15:50] » right? And this is helpful. I appreciate the, you know, conversation, but um I

[15:56] just have a few more questions. I cut you off. Were you done? I I cut you off

[15:59] that question. um the getting into the A district is

[16:05] separate and has different parameters than um I don't know what it is but to

[16:10] get the A exemption on your taxes >> totally different program

[16:14] » I understand that but I want to make sure a lot of people think that they

[16:17] apply for that to get tax benefit yeah >> and the question that I've asked myself

[16:22] during this whole back and forth was what is the benefit why would somebody

[16:29] apply to to the A board if it doesn't I'm sorry to the A to become part of the

[16:34] A district if it doesn't provide any protections or financial benefits.

[16:38] » It provides you a mediator without having to spend legal fees.

[16:42] » That really is what it is, you know. Um and it's again not to say I can come in

[16:46] and do anything I want to, but >> a regular standard farmer traditionally

[16:50] is just busy farming. They don't know, you know, what things are allowed for a

[16:54] and what aren't. You know, they're just going to go do permitting stuff. And the

[16:57] act district was created to give kind of I don't want to say a voice but to give

[17:01] representation to legitimate agricultural practices which just

[17:05] because someone's in the district I need to be very clear about this. Putting

[17:07] county chooses who gets in right and they make that determination again they

[17:12] could include vacant parcels of land they don't. Bless you. Um they don't.

[17:16] But if it's a farm operation that is not a legitimate robust farm operation or

[17:21] their particular a practice isn't something the Agon market says is an a

[17:25] practice they'll tell the town go at it you know do what you want.

[17:30] » So just getting in the a district doesn't even mean that when they go up

[17:33] to a market and say I need help >> that they will get that help. They may

[17:37] say you're you're not enough. So the benefit for a for a farmer for farm

[17:42] operations to get the support where there can be that intergovernment

[17:46] without having to pay a lawyer to then go why are you guys doing this to me is

[17:50] this allowed and to you know get kind of pushed out economically from the area.

[17:54] You know, I've asked that question so many times when I was on the legislature

[17:57] and I think this is the first time I've actually gotten an answer on I know this

[18:00] is why I'm here. I appreciate that was I I asked that question over and over.

[18:04] » Like why would you want to, >> right? But now I understand

[18:07] » and most farmers have no idea. Like I'll tell you the farm that I work with um

[18:12] they had no idea when they applied what the act district was. They thought it

[18:14] was like a USDA stamp. I mean look who we are now. I'm the chair of the

[18:17] district. Um but it was because nobody could answer the question of what is the

[18:21] benefit. it there is eminent domain protections. Um so that's a big thing

[18:25] for farmers because they can get squeezed out pretty quickly. Um there

[18:28] are you know just standard things that it again if it's uh threatens public

[18:33] health or safety game over. >> What about Well, and this is more this

[18:39] is a discussion about a district in total like don't think that all of these

[18:42] questions are aimed at you or you have to answer.

[18:44] » Yeah. No, I'm just the a district person that says stuff so it's fine. Um,

[18:48] » I have zoning unless you're if you're switching topics, I want to ask her a

[18:52] question. If you're not switching, we're good.

[18:54] » Um, what topic were [laughter] >> Well, she was talking about the zoning

[18:58] protection. So, I just want to say go ahead. I've got [clears throat]

[19:01] » um and and at the end I'm going to ask you a question that you might not be

[19:05] comfortable answering, but but bear with me. So, at a recent county ledge

[19:10] meeting, multiple legislators said multiple times, and you said something

[19:15] similar, that, you know, town should just enforce all their their zoning

[19:18] codes. Um, some property owners feel like they have

[19:23] built-in protection. Um, we've spoken to consultants and some have said, "Maybe

[19:29] you should back off on this, maybe you shouldn't." Like

[19:33] it feels like what you're saying is if we think our zoning codes are good, we

[19:39] should enforce them and let them follow the mediation procedure.

[19:43] » Y that's >> Now there's another bonus that I'll

[19:46] share with you is there is a grant program. I think it's about $25,000 that

[19:50] Agon Markets um offers to municipalities as a review of your local zoning um to

[19:55] see is it is it going to pass muster? Are you going to be doing mediations

[19:58] with a markets all the time? um you know that's an option that you can do but

[20:02] it's something that's a grant everybody loves grants right um and it gives you

[20:05] an ability to get a fresh set of eyes of like okay here is and they're not going

[20:08] to tell you you can or can't do this you hire an independent consultant um and

[20:12] [music] it is you know you got go through with agon markets and and

[20:15] they're familiar with that so they can say here's where you're going to have

[20:17] problems down the road you can choose to keep whatever you want when someone is

[20:21] in the district that is a difference now standardly there's certain protections I

[20:24] know there's certain towns that have right to farm code and laws and things

[20:27] like that and that's great um you know it's your choice to enforce what you

[20:30] would like to. And if you say, "Okay, they're in the a district." You have a

[20:34] little bit more backup when a land owner goes, "Well, why are you not doing it to

[20:37] them or like, okay, because a legitimate a practice based on, you know, the

[20:40] Clinton County Agricultural District, that doesn't mean that you can't do that

[20:44] to a regular farm that's not in the egg district." There's a lot of farms that

[20:46] refuse to apply. And I get it. um you know

[20:51] » I have I so the mediation process though and here's where my mind goes it really

[20:56] is up to their interpretation of what our code is. So if they

[21:03] » and on the practice itself [clears throat]

[21:05] » yeah so that that could I think that may be where that shade of gray lies. It

[21:11] really is. So, it, you know, they feel like, well, you know, all of these codes

[21:17] are unreasonable, then it really is a free-for-all.

[21:20] » Well, welcome to courts and lawyers, right? Everybody reads the law a little

[21:23] bit differently. Um, >> you know, if it if it's a a a noise

[21:28] violation, they can interpret that. Well, you know,

[21:31] » well, it depends because, and again, I don't want to go down the wormhole

[21:33] there, >> right? I don't want to go down noise

[21:35] that is, you know, if you're operating your tractor after standard hours,

[21:38] things like that. There are certain things that you can look up for

[21:40] standard, you know, like >> that is something that is a 305A review.

[21:43] That's something that is gray and so you know what you should ask a markets

[21:46] because they're going to be the ones instead of the tow making that decision.

[21:49] » Well, I think I see it as you know here's here's like noise, odor, um,

[21:55] property maintenance standards. I it's I'm of the opinion that we should not

[22:00] care, look, research or even acknowledge whether a property is a farm or not if

[22:05] they're not following our zoning codes. We treat them the same as we would my

[22:10] house or any other house in town. >> Say, let's say we write up a property

[22:14] for property maintenance. You know, they're not doing the right thing. Let's

[22:18] say my house and the house next to me property maintenance. They're in the a

[22:21] district. I'm not um >> I think they were in the district should

[22:26] have to go to the a board and you know mediate, right? That's that's

[22:29] » well so they would have to go to a and markets to mediate, right? And that's

[22:33] the thing. So that's your choice. You can choose to have them do that. it it

[22:37] would almost seem um uh unequal enforcement if we looked at that

[22:42] property special and right that's and if we if that property is special then it

[22:48] should be the neighbors should be notified specifically like they would a

[22:52] fence or shed because those people um >> are directly impacted by like a zoning

[22:58] you know change or anything like that and you know let me give an example

[23:01] again this is discussion don't think it's directed at you but Star Ridge

[23:06] We've asked the county to have a public notice sent to neighbors as part of any

[23:10] other zoning application that we get. I know it's not a zoning change. Um we did

[23:15] that our on our own because we were getting complaints. There was a farm on

[23:18] Star Ridge and I watched the public hearing and everything and that person I

[23:22] think they hired an attorney who came and they read all this stuff against it.

[23:26] Um and I believe, don't quote me on this, but the owner of the property got

[23:30] up and said, "Hey, I want to work with you. I wish we're having this discussion

[23:34] on our back porch instead of right here right now. And if what we had asked for

[23:39] a year ago to send that letter in May happened, they could have had that

[23:43] discussion >> and we're back to not my role and talk

[23:46] to legislator. >> Right. Right. I'm venting and and I

[23:48] think this is something we have to [snorts] go to the county with. But

[23:51] that's a perfect example where those neighbors, you know, could have broken

[23:55] bread and and uh not had an issue and had an understanding. So

[23:58] » and five minutes later they voted. So they couldn't even have an opportunity

[24:02] to work through it. >> And I think in a education program, so

[24:05] you know, we had gone back and forth and had said our district again because we

[24:08] have that ability, you know, we're going to bring it to the A board and see if

[24:11] they want to, you know, sign on to it as well. Our district's doing it no matter

[24:14] what because what happens is nobody says anything and then everybody's hair's on

[24:17] fire and everybody's mad at everybody. So our district is going to put together

[24:20] an act district program which is for municipalities, which is for land owners

[24:24] as well. And you know, hopefully we can get we give them food, right? people

[24:28] will show up hopefully to be able to kind of dispel a lot of you know when

[24:32] they see that notification they're not like oh my god you know like what's

[24:35] going to happen they're not changing what they're doing they're doing what

[24:37] they were doing yesterday and that's what we're going to be evaluating them

[24:40] on into getting into the act district >> well I I think it changes a bit there

[24:44] and like let me read something I'm not going to say who it was but this was on

[24:48] this was out recently and it's from a farm and it says the problem has been

[24:53] neighbors and town officials thinking our farm activities are against town

[24:58] code when in fact they are protected by the state a law.

[25:01] » I am not going to weigh in on this in the least. Uh I will go back to a

[25:05] assessments uh and why taxes are different because again I again I do not

[25:10] that is not my role. I know to stay in my lane

[25:12] » right but my point is not only you know throughout this whole conversation I'm

[25:17] on town board so a lot of that was directed at me and I was fighting it

[25:20] sounded very much like that >> that uh I don't understand it the towns

[25:23] don't understand it. I don't think the farmers understand it and I know

[25:28] » I think everybody has a different understanding because it's a it's a

[25:31] different way to read a law and I think the majority point here is you know you

[25:35] guys want the legislature to put out a notice that they're not required to do.

[25:39] They're like hey you guys do whatever you would like to do.

[25:42] » There's got to be compromise for everybody. Right.

[25:44] » Yeah. There's two things that and now we have a better understanding and I'm

[25:48] strongly of the opinion I'll say this you know on the record if I get in

[25:50] trouble whatever but we have to do equal enforcement and um whether it's in the

[25:56] district or not and the properties in the district they apply to the district

[26:01] so that they have mediation support so that they can escalate it and say hey

[26:05] this is this is preventing me from doing what I want to do is it or is it not

[26:10] unreasonable if it's unreasonable they would come back to us and say hey

[26:13] they're allowed to do this and then know we've done what we can do.

[26:17] » Yeah. And I I I think that's fine. I think like that's why you can choose to

[26:20] do the grant where you look over your zoning and say, "How many 305 reviews do

[26:23] we want in Southeast?" You know, you can choose to see how much paperwork you

[26:27] want. But >> the complaints that we get, I think, are

[26:30] reasonable. If if my neighbor came in, put a farm in, and then had roosters all

[26:35] night running their tractor, you know, in the middle of the morning, you know,

[26:38] creating a nuisance for me as a property owner, I'd be upset. Yeah, that's that's

[26:43] my concern. All I will say is again that is a question for a and markets but

[26:47] those sound like events are one thing right

[26:49] » but animals and agriculture if they have a legitimate farm practice that is the

[26:53] reason for the a district to go okay what can we reasonably talk about so

[26:58] » before going down that full I feel the this is one guy this is a different guy

[27:02] that emailed and all of the angst I do get that but that is I am not weighing

[27:05] in on that I have learned this uh from day one knowing it's not in my lane I'm

[27:10] not doing it I will gladly what I will say is I'm not going to go ear muffs.

[27:14] I'm not talking about anything. If you have specific questions, you can reach

[27:17] out to the district. We can then find out, you know, and be the intermaria for

[27:21] you guys. If you guys don't want to reach out to Agon Markets, um you don't

[27:24] have to wait till it gets to 305A review where it's a legitimate specific thing.

[27:28] You can call Agon Markets, you can call Agon Markets Council, you can reach out

[27:32] to either the A board or soil and water district and then we can reach out for

[27:36] you. Yeah, I I think the burden of uh fighting it shouldn't be on the town,

[27:43] but um but anyway, that that's >> But here we are, right?

[27:46] » Here we are. >> Yeah. I you know, that's I I mean, we

[27:49] shouldn't have to do research to say hm do we want to write up this violation or

[27:53] not based on its um um designation um

[27:57] » on a assessment versus the other because I will say some people think that people

[28:02] get into the A district because they know of these protections. Half the

[28:05] people don't. Half the people don't. Then everyone makes such a big deal of

[28:08] it. They're like, "Oh my god, I got predictions." Um,

[28:10] » we had a property recently in town um that got written up because they were

[28:17] they were farming had all this >> they weren't within the town codes. I'll

[28:21] say that. >> We are doing a specific thing again and

[28:23] I'm trying to get to taxes. >> Oh, I'm sorry. What? I'm trying to not

[28:27] do the specific items because I >> I thought you said that people um go get

[28:30] into it because >> I said not all people go into the

[28:33] district even knowing what the district is. So I wanted to clarify that there's

[28:36] a a conception that everyone who applies to the district knows what the district

[28:40] is. Sometimes it's just I'm USDA. I signed up with Cornell a district seems

[28:44] like the bonafites for my farm. Well, what I was saying is in this town there

[28:48] have been people that got in trouble and then they applied to the a district so

[28:52] they could do what they wanted to do and not abide by our zoning

[28:56] » and then they'll take up a 305A review of a markets and everything will sort

[28:59] itself out. >> Um and that's again so just because

[29:02] you're in the a district does not mean that a markets will protect every

[29:05] activity, every event, every sound, every noise, every everything. But there

[29:10] are going to be certain things for legitimate farming of, you know, hours

[29:13] of operation because, you know, farmers have to farm a lot more and do a lot

[29:18] more longer work hours than the rest of us. So, a assessment because I'm going

[29:22] to get out of this wormhole you're putting me in. Um, a assessment versus

[29:25] the A district, completely unrelated. You can be in the A district and never

[29:29] get a tax benefit. You can get a tax benefit and never be in the A district.

[29:33] And it happens a lot. Um there is a monetary threshold to be to get an a

[29:40] assessment in the state. There's a monetary threshold. There's a minimum

[29:43] horse uh number that varies from breeding to uh boarding to everything

[29:47] else. So I'm not going to go into that. I'll let your tax person do that.

[29:50] [snorts] Um but there that is a assessment. There is a minimum threshold

[29:54] of you know commercial uh sales you have to have. [snorts] Um now again that

[29:58] doesn't mean you have to sell them all on site. You could be selling to another

[30:00] farm. You you know breed livestock and you sell them to other farms. So that is

[30:05] a specific thing that it gets uh the soil district soil water conservation

[30:09] district creates your soil group worksheet which then is what your um a

[30:14] assessment which is actually an exemption. It's a reduction on your

[30:17] taxes is based upon u but again there is a monetary threshold to get into the a

[30:22] district. There's not a monetary threshold. Again we said it could be a

[30:25] vacant parcel of land. Putnham County chooses not to do that. Putnham County

[30:29] wants to see that you are a you're moving to a farm even if you're in your

[30:33] beginning phases that you have a plan. Again, not necessary, but that's what

[30:37] Putnham County does. And it keeps it to its very much just farms. So, totally

[30:42] different programs. And again, half the people that even get into the A district

[30:45] don't even know what an a assessment is. Um, so the A district gives farmers also

[30:50] a resource where I can go pull up the A district list and this is who we're

[30:54] going to reach out to for, you know, conservation, for technical assistance,

[30:57] for things like that. It's an easy grab as a data point. Find every farm in the

[31:01] county. I mean, good luck, >> you know. Um, so there are benefits to

[31:06] it in that different way and it also impacts funding from the state. So the

[31:10] more farms that you know we enroll in an agriculture environment management

[31:13] program. Again I pick a district parcels first because I know that they're there

[31:18] then we go down the list. But that also impacts state funding for conservation

[31:21] for environmental concerns. You know everybody has concerns about you know

[31:24] agricultural practices and runoff and things like that. And that's why there's

[31:27] groups like the district that's why there's groups like uh east of Hudson

[31:30] watershed a council um funded by D to make sure those things are mitigated and

[31:36] they're done in a way where it's not regulatory. Uh so wonder district is not

[31:39] a regulatory body um and neither is whack. It is because it is easier to

[31:44] incentivize uh cooperation than it is to penalize it. Um that was the the purpose

[31:50] of our two bodies. And then again the a board is just advisory. So when they

[31:53] don't answer you it's not cuz they don't want to. Um but there's you know they

[31:58] are volunteers appointed to just be advisory.

[32:02] » Peter did you thank you for coming answering our questions.

[32:04] » Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you. Peter, did you have a

[32:09] » Oh, okay.

[32:13] » And if anyone wants to make comment, there's the the other three of you.

[32:17] » He's here every time that I [laughter] feel so bad.

[32:21] » Uh, I'm Peter Bell. I'm the zoning enforcement officer.

[32:25] » I rate the tickets. >> Oh, good for you. [laughter]

[32:28] » So, here is my question. Is there a procedure or could we put together a

[32:34] procedure for the zoning officer in our town to email you, call you,

[32:42] show you something that's happening within an a district property and get

[32:48] your opinion as to whether or not that is an a district event.

[32:55] » What I would say is uh I would never win. Yes, you can email us and we will

[33:00] get you the answer from the appropriate authority and then provide it to you.

[33:04] Like we can do that so you're not having to send extra emails. We have no problem

[33:07] doing that. >> All right. The reason being is cuz if I

[33:10] go directly to a violation or a ticket, >> then it's between the town and

[33:15] » the farmer. >> Yep.

[33:16] » If I can get an opinion from you >> saying, "Okay, listen. I've already gone

[33:21] to the egg board, >> gotten their opinion, and this is what

[33:26] you're doing wrong." And you can't do this.

[33:29] » Yeah, you could reach out to the soil and water district or you could reach

[33:32] out directly. I can provide the contact information for the person at Agon

[33:35] Markets who will off the cuff on a phone call tell you um you know a generalized

[33:40] opinion. I can't tell you the amount of times that I will call up and I go,

[33:43] "Hey, here's what's going on. What do you think?" And they're like, "Needs to

[33:46] ripen." I hate that phrase. I hate that phrase because then none of us know what

[33:50] we're doing until it ripens where everybody's mad, right?

[33:52] » Um but it is something that I have learned how to navigate through. Let it

[33:57] ripen to what will it ripen to? Um, so we're happy to do that.

[34:01] » Okay. Because I I haven't even discussed this with the board or my boss,

[34:06] » but it would make it a lot easier if I knew that I'm going in by with strength.

[34:11] » Yeah. >> Rather than fight for no reason. Yeah.

[34:14] » Correct. >> It does make me nervous and we we could

[34:18] talk about that. Um, but everything I've read, all the discussions that we've had

[34:23] and appreciate the cander and everything has been they have no protections. So I

[34:28] think we need to enforce say that >> what in black and white there.

[34:32] » No can everything could potentially go to mediation.

[34:36] » Everything can go to mediation 100%. But there's no automatic protections

[34:41] » and and thus I'm wrong and then we so we need to enforce that. They get an NOV

[34:45] and they come and say, "Hey, we're allowed to do this because XYZ." Then we

[34:49] assess it at that point. But I don't think that we can drive down the road

[34:53] and say, "Oh, is this property in here?" Because we know there's unless I'm

[34:57] unless I've read this wrong. It says, um, there's no automatic protections.

[35:02] Agricultural inclusion can limit a municipalities to ability to force local

[35:07] laws and regulations. Um, but there's no automatic approvals. I don't think we

[35:13] could take that in consideration if we're writing a violation.

[35:15] » What I'm trying to say is if somebody's putting up a fence,

[35:18] » yep, >> they need to get a permit.

[35:20] » Yeah. >> If somebody is putting up a barn on an

[35:23] egg district, they do not need a permit. >> Am I correct?

[35:27] » Oo, don't quote me this. What I tell everyone is you go to your building

[35:30] department and you find out. Now, there are certain allowances [clears throat]

[35:32] in fire and safety code if people if you're putting up a shed on

[35:38] your property, we require a permit for it.

[35:42] » Right? >> What I'm saying is if there is something

[35:45] that is going on in a farm that we consider not necessarily farmbbased.

[35:54] That's what I need an opinion on. >> Yeah. Again, my my thought is people get

[35:59] scared of the word violation. All it is is a letter that says, "Hey, we think

[36:03] you're not in compliance with this code. Get 30 days." Right?

[36:05] » Well, I think they get really mad, too. >> Well, you know, so that's up to you guys

[36:09] to govern your time as you see fit. >> But it's a it's it's like, "Hey, 30

[36:14] days." And and that person can call and then there's a documentation of it and

[36:17] say, "Hey, this is I I can do this because of X Y and Z." Or you call the A

[36:21] board, reach out to the A board, and they give some communication.

[36:25] » Don't reach out to the eye board. They will never give you

[36:27] » soil and water. >> Yes. Um, but then we have a paper trail.

[36:31] So when you know when you're gone or I'm gone and the neighbor moves and they

[36:34] say, "Hey, what's going on here?" you foil it and say, "Oh, this this was

[36:38] already addressed." And they're allowed to do it. Um, but we could talk about

[36:41] the process. And I'm not trying to like hurt farms at all, but we get

[36:45] complaints. How do we treat it? And what I've learned now is we treat it the way

[36:50] we would any other property, but that property owner gets the benefit of

[36:55] having resources to support them for free.

[36:58] Yeah, >> entirely up to you guys [clears throat]

[37:00] as a town board as elected people that deal with all the complaints all the

[37:03] time. Um, in my experience is just uh headed off with the past before you get

[37:09] to larger things. Everybody's more mad and everybody's cranky and everybody's

[37:13] fighting and writing Facebook posts and all that stuff. Yeah.

[37:16] » Right. Like I'm just here to say if you would like a resource, if you would like

[37:19] a resource, anybody wants a resource and wants an informal phone call and says,

[37:22] "Hey, >> is this legit? Is it not legit?" I'm

[37:25] 100% going to say, "Let me make a call." I'm never going to give you an answer

[37:28] right off the bat unless it's something wild, right? And I know it's completely

[37:32] nothing to do with farming, which you know, then he would know and he wouldn't

[37:35] call, right? Um, so the resources there, if you want it, you guys choose to do

[37:39] what you want. We've just found again speaking to farmers, they get violation.

[37:43] Regular landowner gets a violation. They're like panic. I'm going to prison,

[37:46] you know, and they're worried about it. >> Um, so if there's any way, again, you

[37:50] can reach out before it gets to a formal 305A. can ask for an opinion in writing.

[37:55] So, you can put in your foil record, you could write an email, you can make a

[37:59] phone call, or if you want to do none of the above, we're you're happy to call us

[38:02] and we're okay with that. >> Can I just ask a couple more questions?

[38:05] I'm sorry. Um, >> sure. I'm so sorry. That guy in the

[38:08] back, I never remember your name. >> Scott loves sits here for hours. He's

[38:13] like, it's going to be an hour. So, you >> got a question. [laughter]

[38:16] » You if you guys want to ask a question, we're trying to do that more. So, but

[38:20] » you could choose to leave. >> I'm fine. No. [laughter] This is short.

[38:25] » Uh, couple questions I did have. Um, so the legislature, we have to reach out to

[38:29] them to ask for mailings similar fashion when we have a zoning board application

[38:34] where that applicant has to tell his neighbors, "This is what I'm doing."

[38:38] We'd love to see uh the applicants into the act district do that, but that's

[38:43] something that we could push on the legislature. Has nothing to do with you

[38:46] guys. So I want to >> and that went back and forth with

[38:49] legislative council already >> and a markets council but God bless you

[38:52] do anything you would like. >> I would love to see that happen. I don't

[38:54] know why it hasn't happened yet and >> and I was on the legislature for 12

[38:58] years but it it never got to this point until just recently.

[39:02] » I know >> it just the last few years it's it just

[39:04] got heated. But one of the things that used to always happen on the legislature

[39:08] and I always assumed it was a rule because that's what I was told but I

[39:12] don't think it was is if a property has outstanding violations or an open permit

[39:18] that couldn't go into the a district but that was never a rule apparently

[39:22] » because it's not there there was a long-standing and I from my

[39:25] understanding of what I've been told it was it was a mechanism that was used to

[39:29] uh prohibit really bad actors back in the day. Um I mean kind of a silly thing

[39:34] to do cuz you could just you know use any of the other reasons uh of why that

[39:38] was a not great agricultural parcel. Uh but they chose that that is something

[39:43] that you know the state has even gone on to be like it's a little overburdensome

[39:46] where again if it's something completely unrelated so we kept in there where if

[39:49] it's environmental degradation if it is um you know something that's a

[39:53] long-standing administrative thing say you didn't close at a permit on your

[39:57] your back stair or you know the building inspector hadn't come out and done

[40:00] something it can't be a prohibitor but it is taken into consideration. Um, so

[40:06] it's not to say you can do anything you want, do whatever, but if the the A

[40:10] district isn't a change of use, >> it's literally giving a um, you know,

[40:14] supportive county and state program to a parcel. So that's why, you know, to my

[40:18] understanding, it was you're not changing a use, you're not going for

[40:22] building permit because if you go for building permit, you have open stuff,

[40:24] you can't get one, right? >> There has been such a convolution on

[40:28] planning, site plan approval, variances, things like that. And that is not the A

[40:32] district. the act district. It's just you get some extra help maybe sometimes.

[40:37] Um >> I always looked at it as you can't sell

[40:40] the property because you know you haven't

[40:42] » that's a change of ownership. >> That's a change of ownership. But I kind

[40:45] of feel like this is well >> and that was the thing. It was change of

[40:47] use, change of ownership. This was none of the above. Um but that and I get that

[40:51] that abrupt change would be like whoa. Now it said if there was something that

[40:54] was 30 days prior that was something that was environmental or things like

[40:57] that cuz that's why I think in the beginning they originally put it in.

[40:59] There was lots of dumping and just crazy stuff back in the day cuz nobody knew

[41:03] what the act district was. >> Okay. Um and the last question very

[41:07] vague agro tourism >> h completely

[41:10] » that is very uh very vague question. It really depends. Um that is a very very

[41:15] nuanced thing. Um again agon markets uh specifically and that's why they are

[41:20] your resource. We could be a resource to go to them. It is literally case- by

[41:24] case basis. Like if you breed livestock and you're uh socializing animals and

[41:30] that is part of what you do in order to sell them, that is something that is

[41:34] protected. If you're just doing it for, you know, hahas and there's different

[41:38] things and it's not really your farm products. It's not necessary to your

[41:41] agricultural business. Different. >> Okay.

[41:45] » I have one more question. I am so sorry. >> No, you're good. I'm going to give you a

[41:49] a hypothetical. >> Oh, good.

[41:52] I'm going to try I'm going to try not to be specific, but I'm I'm more concerned

[41:56] about neighboring residents and their protection. Um I understand all you know

[42:02] there's a shade of gray here, right? You know, we're not going to give a a

[42:06] violation to somebody who's farming at 5:00 a.m. because it violates, you know,

[42:11] a noise code or whatever. Um, if I want to put a shed for my animal or

[42:19] my animals right on my neighbor's property line or right next to my

[42:23] neighbor's property line and that say hypothetical Peter fits

[42:29] the a district rules or whatever, >> how much protection does that neighbor

[42:36] have? that resident, >> do they get to speak in the 305A review

[42:42] or do they have any >> Yeah.

[42:45] » protections? Absolutely. Or if they were to go to this, do can we encourage them

[42:51] to >> be vocal?

[42:52] » They will be involved. So, if there's a 305 review, let's say on sound, I'm just

[42:56] going to say sound. I'm not going to dedicate.

[42:58] » I'm speaking pure hypothetical. hypothetically on sound. Um what would

[43:02] happen is then they would talk to the land owner they would talk to uh the

[43:06] town board they would talk to any neighbors who had those complaints

[43:08] » express concerns >> and then they will take the full-fledged

[43:11] they will go out on site and say hey what's going on honestly with setbacks

[43:15] and things like that I think he knows it and there's certain things um but

[43:19] » again I think 305A is there right and it's there for a properties you farms

[43:23] aren't in the district I'm sure he complains about those right so I think I

[43:27] mean the better practice that I try to you know go by every day be a better

[43:31] neighbor. um where you know to his point is if you say hey this is something that

[43:36] has come up is there a way we can kind of work together can you do something a

[43:39] little different maybe you know don't do this just because they the actists you

[43:43] know with tractors let's say at certain hours of the morning I guarantee you if

[43:47] you kindly go talk to a farmer you send this nice man and say hey neighbors are

[43:51] coming mad can you start a little bit later they're probably not going to give

[43:53] you a hard time you send them a violation in the mail they're probably

[43:55] going to get for an attitude um so again like there are there are protections for

[44:00] everybody but it's it's giving that balance lands. So you can still survive

[44:06] in a a county that's made of rock, frankly, right? Um so it's already hard

[44:10] for agriculture, but it gives them an ability to, you know, sustain when there

[44:14] is uh surrounding pressures and development, which I mean is is us.

[44:18] We're right outside of Westchester. It's creeping in. Um so keeping that open

[44:21] space and open land, but not with a disregard for neighbors. So 305A would

[44:25] include neighbors. >> Okay.

[44:26] » Um everybody's got >> want to make sure that they do have some

[44:29] protection and that they do have a say. Yeah, because if it's somebody who's

[44:32] just like just flagrantly just being a rude person, they're not going to go,

[44:36] "Oh, yeah, because you're a farm, you get to do it." They're like, "All right,

[44:39] can you be more reasonable?" And they're like, "Okay." And they go to the town,

[44:41] "Can you be more reasonable?" They go to the neighbor and suddenly everybody's

[44:46] fine. Um there's only 11 times in all of a district history that a markets issued

[44:51] an order because nobody would work together. And that's, you know, since

[44:54] the 90s, so it's a good track record, I think.

[44:57] » Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. Scott, did you have a

[45:00] question? >> I got one more question.

[45:02] » Oh jeez, I'm so sorry. She's never coming back. [laughter]

[45:07] » 2 hours. >> Is there any difference in Agon Markets

[45:13] and in your organization if it's a residential if it's a farm in

[45:19] a residential area zoning >> or commercial zoning?

[45:25] » Uh on practice for us, we don't look at zoning. You don't you don't care which

[45:30] one it is because with the town we have different zoning codes and different

[45:37] um town codes for a residential district than we do for commercial district.

[45:43] » I know like in certain towns there's like a residential R4 zoning that

[45:46] includes farming, right? Um and it includes small and large farms. So your

[45:50] your zoning still applies. I mean if somebody goes to buy a parcel I would

[45:54] hope when they want to start a farm they're like let me make sure I can this

[45:57] year. Well, it's more of a case of I feel in my opinion that a farm in a

[46:04] commercial zone can do more things than a farm in a residential zone.

[46:08] » Catch 22 though because a commercial zone is generally somewhere where it

[46:12] isn't vast open swamps of open land, right? And that's that's where the

[46:16] zoning thing kind of gets confusing where it's you do your zoning to have

[46:20] uniformity and to have where it's not just chaos like industrial building here

[46:24] and then you know tiny things there. It is a commercial, you know, operation,

[46:29] but it's not, you wouldn't want it in the middle of, you know, the city of

[46:32] White Plains, you know, in the middle of the downtown. You want it in a more

[46:36] residential, suburban, urban zoning, but your zoning is your zoning. Okay.

[46:39] » Um, and again, I think that grant I'll definitely send you guys the

[46:42] information. It's a grant. You could do it and then you can say, "Well, I don't

[46:46] agree with it." Throw it in the garbage. Are you saying that um like it would be

[46:50] in our best interest to uh get this grant, use it to adjust our code, put

[46:56] some provisions specific to farming that are reasonable.

[46:59] » Adjust your code, but make it so that you're not having a bunch of 305A

[47:02] reviews. You can kind of go through that now and go, what are you guys

[47:05] comfortable with? What are you not? And that way he doesn't have to call me as

[47:09] much. No offense, you can. Um, but you're kind of heading off at the past

[47:13] and then you know right then when you go through your whole zoning code, this is

[47:17] where we're going to get push back in an a district parcel from the state and

[47:20] this is why. >> Yeah. I'm wondering if if that's a good

[47:23] practice so we could say, hey, you can farm and do these things, but you can't

[47:27] do these things. So it overall it's less restrictive and there's better um

[47:32] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[47:35] » more teeth in certain things. Yeah. >> But anyway, we can

[47:38] » Okay. >> So, I'll definitely I'll send you guys

[47:40] the information on that because that is something that no towns know about. Um I

[47:45] told PT Valley last year uh their new town supervisor is going to be, you

[47:48] know, moving forward with that and the grant is a grant. It's I think the match

[47:50] is in kind services. So, um something that's super easy.

[47:54] » Thank you.

[47:59] » Yeah, it's been two or three years. I remember bumping into her and I think it

[48:02] was Town of Patterson. She was there with the farm. you were representing

[48:05] them when this first came up and that was the very first time I heard about a

[48:08] districts. >> Long way to go, huh?

[48:10] » Exactly. You're you're a prize has been incredible, shall we say? Um I've been

[48:15] county meetings. I could just say this is the best definition of agis I've ever

[48:19] heard anywhere. >> Thank you.

[48:21] » So thank you for that. I mean the clarification here and I think that farm

[48:25] at the time is their main reason was going district was that's what Cornell

[48:28] told them to do. >> Literally USDA.

[48:30] » They came up here learned to farm. Cornell said hey this is how you farm.

[48:33] this is what you do and this is what you do next. So they went to the a district

[48:36] and next thing you know they're standing in front of the town of Patterson

[48:38] fighting with the board on a district. So that's thank you for the information.

[48:44] It was nice. >> Yeah. Second that this is you know lots

[48:46] of emails back and forth. It's very nice for you to come and

[48:50] » No problem. >> Provide some more clarity I think.

[48:53] » Am I [laughter] kidding? Um Lynn Ehart, thank you for

[48:58] letting us ask. I only have one and I think it'll be quick. is next year.

[49:03] » No, it's not. [laughter] I answer those in my own head at home

[49:07] all the time. Um, next year is the full review of all the districts. Can you

[49:12] explain how that works, please? >> Oh god, I can explain how it is supposed

[49:17] to work. Um, I can explain uh 8 years ago was the last time it happened. And

[49:21] so, you know, we'll see. Um the way that Agon markets we just had a training in

[49:26] March where we're going to do more um we're going to do some during the day

[49:29] and some in the evening so that residents and people can come if they

[49:32] want to. Um the 8-year review is really looking at um because it's the same

[49:36] thing that the two basic criteria is it does it um add to the viability of

[49:39] agriculture in the county and is it in the best in the public interest of the

[49:42] county. Those are the two main things to get into the district. That's why it's

[49:46] so open and big. Putnham County has narrowed it to farms. Um it is a review

[49:50] to see what parcels have turned into non-farmms, right? because there's no

[49:55] reason to have let's say something that used to be a farm today is now uh you

[50:00] know fivetory building uh in a you know commercial zoning area like then you

[50:04] wouldn't need that in um so the way that the a board has discussed it the way it

[50:08] has been done all years in the past for all of the time since 2003 was a mailing

[50:14] um a mailing or contact goes out to the a uh district uh parcels saying if you

[50:20] would like to be removed um please let us know and then the a ward along with

[50:25] planning um and I think soil and water will be doing that as well this year.

[50:28] Looks at kind of aerials and goes is this still a farm is it not a farm and

[50:31] reaches out to land owners from there. It is not a we go picking them all out.

[50:35] Um if you see any agon markets training they show you this like little slope

[50:39] that has a tractor and it's just driving downhill because the loss of farming and

[50:44] farmland in New York State is wild. I mean it's more expensive to do

[50:48] everything here every day. Imagine you have to put diesel in all of your

[50:51] tractors and everything else. It's just it's abhorrent. Um, so it's not a

[50:55] pulling out of properties, but it's looking at the properties. Uh, I think

[50:58] there's two years ago there's 157. I want to say there's about 180 parcels in

[51:02] the district right now roughly. Do not quote me on that exact number, but um,

[51:06] that is specifically going through and saying um, you know, Tilly Foster Farm

[51:11] is in the A district. I always thought that was a little bit redundant, but

[51:13] great. You know, the county doesn't need protection from itself. Um, but looking

[51:17] at the different parcels and again some of them are open space, some of them

[51:20] are, you know, some religious institutions where it's it's open space

[51:23] and it protects it and I think that's fine. They're never going to have a

[51:25] farming practice to do a 305A review on. So, it really doesn't matter. Um, but

[51:30] again, it helps some state funding, but it is uh a mailing. This is the way it's

[51:34] been done. So, a mailing has gone out to all the parcels saying if you'd like to

[51:37] be removed, let us know. Um, and if there's anything that is like

[51:40] egregiously not a farm or totally industrially developed, that would be,

[51:43] you know, an indiv individual cont. But you're not asking them to go back and

[51:46] reapply at all. God, that would be >> So it's just if you want to be removed,

[51:50] send us a letter. >> And there'll be a standard a inclusion

[51:52] process next year. So people can apply next year, but it's when every years you

[51:56] just have to review and say, is this still doing what the program intended in

[52:00] aiding in agriculture >> and you guys could go in there if the

[52:03] person is non-compliant, doesn't respond to you, and is not operating the farm

[52:07] anymore, you can pull them out. >> Yeah. And that again, we write the

[52:10] recommendations to the legislature. Sometimes the legislature listens.

[52:14] Sometimes they don't. Uh I do this every meeting anyways. So, you know, we will

[52:20] give them the opinion. The board takes a vote. We go through that. So, it is

[52:23] going to be a burdensome year next year. Uh we're going to have to start pretty

[52:26] soon on on collecting all that data. But it is really again because it's a

[52:29] voluntary program. It's a supportive program. It's not really anything that's

[52:33] changing any use or changing ownership. So, a lot of times if there's

[52:36] subdivisions, it's just the maps. Uh some, you know, farms will subdivide a

[52:40] parcel, but it's still entirely a farm. They just do it for generational

[52:44] planning, things like that, and then it's just tax maps have to be updated.

[52:47] So, >> another question,

[52:50] » two questions. I'm going to pretend they're not hypothetical, but maybe. Oh,

[52:52] God. Okay. >> Um, if if a farm becomes a

[52:58] » Well, one is do farms if there's any ownership

[53:02] changes, does that impact the uh designation or whether it's in a

[53:06] district? No. >> No. So there's the

[53:08] » as long as they're you know they're in the district that so the a district is

[53:11] based on parcel. >> Okay.

[53:13] » So parcel number is what's in the district and then if the ownership

[53:16] changes it still remains >> and if there's a parcel that's in for

[53:19] three years let's say um in the fourth year they stop doing something or they

[53:23] start doing things they shouldn't. It's still tied to that 8-year time period.

[53:27] Nobody gets kicked out in the middle. >> Nobody gets kicked out. And again, it's

[53:30] I would say it'd be very difficult to justify cuz again, the county decides

[53:34] what it decides, right? And if it's like, okay, I want to rip this parcel

[53:37] out, they're not farming enough. You don't have to be a farm to be in the

[53:40] district. The big change of use is where I would say that there may be parcels

[53:44] that get pulled out. Um, again, if you're transitioning land to, you know,

[53:48] same thing kind of with a value assessments, if you have, you know, a

[53:53] farm and you do farming operation and all of a sudden you just build

[53:56] everything, there's concrete everywhere. You've literally ruined the agriculture

[53:59] land. So, it has no value there anymore. That's an instance I would say that gets

[54:02] pulled out. But if it's less farming or whatever, again, that's for the county

[54:06] legislature to decide, but there's going to be 180 plus parcels.

[54:11] I do not see anyone doing fine tooth comb. Um, again, because if they're

[54:15] problematic parcels, maybe, you know, um, that if, you know, the county's

[54:18] heard about for all time, but I don't think it's anything, um, there was a

[54:23] question of like, well, can we pull people out? It's like, well, in theory,

[54:26] you could, but you have to justify that. the county has to justify why they're

[54:29] ripping that parcel out and then that'll be a fight for the county if it's, you

[54:32] know, you're just, you have less chickens today than you did five years

[54:35] ago. Um, so >> that's how it worked in the past. Um,

[54:40] we'll see. >> Thank you for coming out.

[54:42] » You had one more or no, you had another hypothetical.

[54:44] » Come back in two weeks. >> I got them both. Kick out and uh

[54:48] ownership. >> Perfect. Thank you guys so much. Run

[54:50] while you can. Thank you. Okay. [laughter]

[54:53] » Thank you. >> Okay. Uh, I'll make a motion to go into

[54:57] our regular meeting. Do I have a second? >> Second.

[54:59] » All in favor? >> I.

[55:01] » Okay. Item number one on our uh regular meeting is a a motion to set a public

[55:07] hearing for Thursday, September 17, 2026 to amend town code chapter 126 taxation

[55:14] for volunteer firefighters and am workers and exemption for unmarried

[55:20] surviving spouses. I'll make that motion. Do I have a second?

[55:24] » Second. All in favor? >> I.

[55:26] » Thank you. Uh number two is a motion to set a public hearing for Thursday,

[55:30] October 1st, 2026 to consider a proposal of local law amending chapter 138 zoning

[55:37] article uh 19 floating zoning district section

[55:44] 138-104. this multif family workforce housing

[55:49] district to implement provisions of the New York State Division of Human Rights

[55:55] uh pre complaint settlement agreement. I'll make that motion. Do I have a

[56:00] second? >> Second.

[56:01] » All in favor? >> I.

[56:04] » Thank you. >> Good job with your Roman numerals.

[56:06] » Yeah, took [laughter] me a second there. Right. 19.

[56:08] » Way back. >> Yeah. Um Okay. Number three, uh is a

[56:13] resolution authorizing the supervisor to sign a settlement agreement with New

[56:17] York State Division of Human Rights nullifying the multifamily workforce

[56:22] housing district. So, uh with that, I'd like to uh make make a motion resolve

[56:29] that the town board of the town of Southeast is hereby accepts uh the

[56:33] provisions of the pre-complaint resolution agreement with New York State

[56:37] Division of Human Rights. the agreement and authorizes the town supervisor to

[56:42] execute implement such agreement forth with I'll make that motion.

[56:48] » Second. >> Thank you. All in favor? I

[56:55] » uh item number four on our agenda uh is a motion to authorize the supervisor

[57:02] um to sign a memorandum of understanding with Putinham County regarding the

[57:07] conveyance of certain inrem property to to the town adjacent to the highway

[57:12] department on Palmer Road. So I'll make this motion uh be it resolved that the

[57:18] town board of the town of southeast is hereby authorized authorizes the

[57:23] supervisor to execute a memorandum of understanding with county of Putinham

[57:28] regarding the proposed conveyance to the town of a portion of a certain property

[57:32] known generally as 61 View Avenue and 63 Old View Avenue

[57:38] identified by a tax map number 67.12-2. 2-28 and 67.12-1-28

[57:50] respectfully. Um, uh, which properties was previously

[57:55] obtained by the county in REM and further resolved that the MOU is fully

[58:02] executed. The supervisor is authorized to engage Terry Bergenhoff Collins

[58:09] licensed land surveyors for the purpose of preparing the necessary subdivision

[58:14] lot line adjustment maps uh necessary to affect the completion of conveyance.

[58:21] » Uh I'll >> I'll make that motion.

[58:24] » Second for discussion. I'll be abstaining on this vote. I have a family

[58:27] member whose property abuts this property. Um so if we could do a roll

[58:31] call vote. Thank you. Any other discussion on the matter?

[58:35] So, uh, put I'll put it to a roll call vote.

[58:38] » Councilman Cypress, >> yes.

[58:40] » Councilman Larka, >> Councilwoman Lewis,

[58:43] » yes. >> Councilman Mazada,

[58:45] » yes. >> Supervisor Castellano,

[58:47] » yes. >> Thank you. Uh item number five is a

[58:51] resolution to authorize the supervisor sign a contract with stat locksmith for

[58:56] installation of handicap accessible self-opening and closing doors and crash

[59:02] bars to certain doors in town hall and Lake View Manor. I will make that

[59:08] motion. uh resolved that the town board of the town of Southeast accepts the

[59:12] proposal of Stat Locksmith of 144 South Parliament Road in Lraange, New York. Uh

[59:20] zip code is 12540. uh to install a handicap automated

[59:27] closure device, replacement doors, push bars, and associated hardware specific

[59:32] for the doors in Town Hall and Lake View Manor, and hereby authorizes the

[59:36] supervisor to execute a contract with Stat Locksmith for such services in

[59:42] accordance to with the proposals dated July 1st, 2026 and July 7, 2026 for a

[59:48] total contract price not to exceed $19,645.

[59:53] $5. Uh be it resolved that the resolution

[59:56] take effect immediately. I'll make that motion. Second. Second.

[1:00:00] » Thank you. All in favor? >> I.

[1:00:03] » Great. Now we're at other uh new business. Any board member have any new

[1:00:09] business they want to >> works?

[1:00:14] Good. Uh being that there is none recognition of public for public

[1:00:18] comment. Please come forward.

[1:00:34] Hi, thanks again and thanks for opening up the um a districts to some questions.

[1:00:39] I think that was really helpful. So, thank you. Um I have a question though

[1:00:44] on the on resolution number three. Was there a financial settlement with that?

[1:00:50] When you say financial settlement, there was there's no ex no expense of the town

[1:00:54] other than uh members of the planning board and the town board are going to

[1:00:59] have to take a course on on the uh uh uh workings of the human rights law.

[1:01:06] Okay. I'm annoyed because the entire way through this process I was on the

[1:01:13] planning board. I still am. And I said repeatedly that workforce housing in my

[1:01:18] opinion was discriminatory and it was repeatedly ignored by everyone. And I

[1:01:24] just want to say I mean of course I'll take the course gladly and I know I'll

[1:01:27] learn a lot that I don't know in it but it's frustrating to me. Um

[1:01:33] it's very frustrating to me because I couldn't see having been a realer years

[1:01:36] ago how it wouldn't be considered discriminatory.

[1:01:40] Well, as as it was explained to me in the discussions, uh it wasn't um de

[1:01:46] facto discriminatory. It was an application that was discriminator

[1:01:50] discriminatory because it uh because it specifically said it would pri

[1:01:56] prioritize persons that were in certain industries locally. and the the state

[1:02:03] division uh and their analysts said that if if it had been uh not limited to

[1:02:09] pieces persons in the town of Southeast, it wouldn't have been discriminatory. So

[1:02:13] you can um so for example the new if the new um garden street or whatever does

[1:02:20] want to use workforce housing in there to a degree or anyone wants to in town

[1:02:25] as long as it's just just based what you're telling me is if someone's a

[1:02:28] firefighter or someone's a teacher that is all legal as long

[1:02:33] » street wouldn't have any this wouldn't have any our zoning not the vill's

[1:02:36] zoning >> right

[1:02:37] » why did you bring up garden street [laughter]

[1:02:41] » just so everyone knows But it was well in the same developer.

[1:02:44] So I'm just kidding. >> Of course. I know. But no, but I want to

[1:02:49] be clear on this then. So if something's in front of the planning board and they

[1:02:53] want workforce housing, and nothing is right now, but if if it came in front of

[1:02:57] us, we if long as they say we want, oh, maybe farmers, but we want uh teachers

[1:03:03] and um you know, and the list goes on. as I understand it, if it's more broadly

[1:03:10] um advertised and open for not for because of the the regional disparities

[1:03:17] of wealth is really the way it was explained to me. Uh that is that

[1:03:23] somebody who was uh considered um uh a

[1:03:31] somebody who was who was a part of a protected class from outside of this

[1:03:37] region could not have taken advantage of those priorities.

[1:03:43] And it's really the the whole purpose of of the human rights law and the and the

[1:03:48] housing protections is to protect those that are of protected classes and

[1:03:55] teachers aren't a protected class. Um >> none of the were any firefighters?

[1:04:01] » No, none of those are protected classes. And and

[1:04:03] » okay, >> and the reason why I think the reason

[1:04:07] that the division of human rights uh took issue with this and they they they

[1:04:13] were very I mean they were not about to file a uh a formal uh litigation

[1:04:19] complaint. they they worked with the uh the Barrett Hill people and and one of

[1:04:26] the parties to this settlement is Barrett Hill's um uh agent agency that

[1:04:33] they use to actually run the lotteryies for for the uh priority housing which is

[1:04:39] you would think that agency would be more um aware of of uh how the

[1:04:46] application of these of these uh specific housing rights laws

[1:04:50] uh apply but they are you know they are part of this as well because they were

[1:04:56] the ones uh running the lotteryies right and uh

[1:05:00] » so will Barrett Hill now I guess I'm still seeing it for me there's a

[1:05:04] disconnect and I apologize but for me now at Barrett Hill they still have the

[1:05:09] 10% that are um are more affordable okay >> so is there still a requirement of any

[1:05:17] sort on that 10% other than income is my question.

[1:05:21] » Um I guess there's a discussion regarding we could still have uh 55 and

[1:05:28] older provided they get a waiver from the division.

[1:05:32] » Okay. So >> and they do that all the time. So they

[1:05:35] they've indicated that they will get that waiver.

[1:05:38] » Okay. So but that would be the only exception. No more veterans,

[1:05:43] firefighters. You can't have a you can't have a priority for the for them

[1:05:47] » anybody else >> because it would be discriminating to

[1:05:50] those who are outside the region. >> So anyone who comes back in front of us

[1:05:54] with workforce housing. >> No.

[1:05:56] » Well, if actually in the agenda that was circulated there is there is a copy of

[1:06:01] the amendments to that section of the law.

[1:06:03] » Right. That's what number it's already been vetted by the division and they're

[1:06:08] they're good. Okay. >> Okay. I think I get it. Thank you all.

[1:06:12] Thank you. >> Thanks Lyn.

[1:06:30] Scott Seymtown Southeast. I'm also here from the Brewster Board of Education.

[1:06:35] Um, as you've probably seen our yellow buses on the road that schools are now

[1:06:38] open, so be careful when [snorts] you're driving. Um, day two down. Hopefully

[1:06:44] good. You know, we've had our minor disaster for the year. So, hopefully

[1:06:47] we're predestined and then we're good from now on. Um, most of the capital

[1:06:52] projects are resolved. There's some minor things that are still going on.

[1:06:55] The cafeterium should be done I believe October. That's just some internal work.

[1:07:00] A lot of it is related to machinery, uh, heavy aluminum pieces. I mean, it just

[1:07:05] there's a backlog in construction and uh the PEK STEM lounge just getting

[1:07:10] equipment in. >> I saw it. It looks great.

[1:07:12] » I got an early trip in there. Some of these machines are

[1:07:15] » incredible. >> I saw it completely by mistake the other

[1:07:18] day, but it was Yeah, it's awesome. >> Right. I think we're waiting on the u

[1:07:22] the air circulation or the withholding system that so that it would take out

[1:07:27] any dust through the air, the the zero pressure room, all that is the only

[1:07:31] pieces left. And of course outside the sports they're still working on that. Um

[1:07:38] I just wanted to point out that next week on the 8th there is a

[1:07:44] law enforcement representatives and regional safety experts. We're having a

[1:07:47] safety forum as we do every year to point out what's going on in the

[1:07:50] district, things we've done to make the students and staff safe. And of course

[1:07:54] we invite the general public to all come or to send any questions resolved around

[1:07:58] that. Um, and as always, you know, we thank the

[1:08:03] town for what you've done on behalf of our students. Anything we can do, please

[1:08:06] let us know. >> Scott, this morning's delay for the

[1:08:09] school remained at 2 hours and not every Okay.

[1:08:12] » And that, I believe 9:30 last night, a night cleaner found water on the floor,

[1:08:17] traced it back into a room, went in there, and then the pipes exploded, and

[1:08:20] then it [laughter] went steadily downhill from there. But we have, you

[1:08:23] know, great staff in the system and, uh, a lot of great secondary help. You know,

[1:08:27] they have contracts with certain providers in the area and they swooped

[1:08:30] in and were working on it all night long, I think, up until we opened.

[1:08:33] » Great. >> So, but

[1:08:35] » great job, >> Scott. I I was waiting for my daughter

[1:08:37] to get off the bus yesterday and I got the mail and my tax bill was in the mail

[1:08:42] and I opened it and I was like, "Ah." And then my daughter got off the bus and

[1:08:46] I was like, "How was your day?" She goes, "10 out of 10."

[1:08:49] » All right, I guess I'll pay this. [laughter]

[1:08:52] » So, I always have to get in Tony before the bus tax bills come out. It was it

[1:08:56] was perfect timing. It's [laughter] going to have been better,

[1:08:59] » right? And and that's what we hope to see more of. So point of these items and

[1:09:03] anything else, please let us know. I know I did um speak to Dr. Gosh about

[1:09:07] the project 250 that you know we're trying to include and so we're trying to

[1:09:12] get involved on that and I don't know if um for your fireworks, I'm assuming

[1:09:16] you're going to announce that this weekend. Um if the kids that were

[1:09:20] involved in it prior to the delays are involved that I don't know. I haven't

[1:09:24] heard but I would hope. >> They weren't. Perfect.

[1:09:27] » The timelines are tough on these. >> I think we're going to cancel them

[1:09:29] anyway. >> Okay, that's [laughter] it.

[1:09:32] » If you would like to join us, just let us know. We're happy to have

[1:09:36] » Thanks, Scott. >> All right. Thanks.

[1:09:38] » I'm just kidding. Thanks, Scott. We're not cancelled. Who knows? Probably.

[1:09:41] » Now you think about the weather. >> It's probably going to rain.

[1:09:44] » No, actually the weather looks good. >> Beautiful.

[1:09:47] » Yeah, weather looks beautiful for the weekend.

[1:09:50] » We said that for Fourth of July, too. >> Well, it really does now.

[1:09:54] [clears throat] Uh recognition of the town board, town board comment. [snorts]

[1:09:57] » One announcement. Um Sunday is um we do an annual Zach attack at the volunteer

[1:10:03] park honoring a um former Brewster Little League player who uh died way too

[1:10:09] young of leukemia. >> And uh it's all day at volunteer

[1:10:14] softball games, baseball games, food, drink. Um it really is a great event.

[1:10:19] » It's a great event. >> So from a community perspective,

[1:10:22] anyone's invited. Um, and it's um, it's a great way for the community to come

[1:10:27] together for a truly worthy cause. So, >> it's great. And just to piggyback off

[1:10:31] that, the varsity Zack Attack game is on September 18th where they honor honor

[1:10:38] Zach as well. >> Yeah.

[1:10:40] » Thank you. >> Thank you.

[1:10:43] » Fireworks. >> Fireworks.

[1:10:45] » Fireworks. >> The fireworks are Sunday. Uh, [laughter]

[1:10:49] they're going to go It starts at six o'clock. They're We're gonna I have to

[1:10:52] reply that later. We're going to shoot them off as soon as it gets dark. So,

[1:10:54] it'll be earlier this year. >> The DJ is going to start at 5:00.

[1:10:57] » Five. Yeah. 5 o'clock. >> Yeah. That's why we were telling you to

[1:11:01] do [laughter] I never mind. 5:00. Uh DJ starts at 5:00

[1:11:06] » and and rain or shine. >> Rain or [laughter] shine, it's on. We We

[1:11:11] did uh have the fire commissioner give us the Okay. The site is ready to go.

[1:11:17] Barring any tragedies, we're going to be perfect. Uh, no. The weather looks great

[1:11:22] and hopefully the fireworks are going to go off about 7:30 because it'll be dark

[1:11:25] a little earlier which will be great. So,

[1:11:28] » and we did double the amount this year. >> Yeah.

[1:11:30] » Big event. 250th anniversary of the country.

[1:11:33] » 250 fireworks. >> No, it's 1,400.

[1:11:36] » It was 700. >> Actually, this aligns much better for my

[1:11:39] bedtime. I have to say [laughter] >> in July.

[1:11:44] » So, you put those trucks up.

[1:11:47] » So much better for me. >> Yeah. Looking forward to it. It's a

[1:11:50] great event. A lot of lot of discussion on social media about it. So, we're

[1:11:53] hoping for a big crowd. >> Anything else?

[1:11:57] » Nope. >> We've been handing flyers out to all

[1:11:59] anybody coming in to pay their taxes. So,

[1:12:02] » Oh, thank you. >> Excellent.

[1:12:03] » That's awesome. All right. >> I make a motion to go into executive

[1:12:09] session to discuss um contractual and legal matter.

[1:12:13] » Thank you. >> Second. All

[1:12:15] » in favor? I >> Thank you.

Town of Southeast, N Y Town Board Meeting September 3, 2026

Transcript