[0:08] This is the convening here of the February 7th, 2024 meeting of the Planning Commission in St. Louis Park. We will begin with roll call. Jim Benike. Here, Katie Merton. Here, Matt Eckholm. Here, Mia Devaccia. Here, Tom Weber. Here, Jan Youngquest. Next item for the agenda is the approval of minutes. We are approving the minutes from two previous meetings.

[0:37] one on December 6th and the other on December 20th. Do we have any discussion, edits, or motions?

[0:44] So moved. Seconded.

[0:47] Have a motion and a second. All those in favor of approving the minutes say aye.

[0:51] Aye. Aye.

[0:52] All opposed. That carries. Next up on the agenda is our one public hearing for the evening and I just

[1:01] saw some folks coming in and just as you're coming in if you are interested in speaking at the hearing,

[1:06] there are some blue cards at that back table there with some pens feel free to fill out your name

[1:12] and all the information on there and bring it up either to Gary and Sean here and we will

[1:17] put you into the the speaking order as well. So for the folks here in the room I just want to let

[1:23] you know what we're going to do is first of all hear about the proposal from city staff then the

[1:28] commission is going to ask really clarifying questions details here and there and then we will open it up

[1:34] in the public hearing for public comments so again if you are interested in

[1:39] speaking fill out one of these blue cards and and we'll go from there so at

[1:45] that at that point this is a rezoning preliminary final plat and

[1:52] conditional use permit for 6013 and 6019 Cedar Lake Road and I will turn it over to

[1:59] city staff thank you chair members of the commission my name is Gary Morrison I'm

[2:04] The zoning administrator for the city, and I'll be presenting the applications for you tonight.

[2:09] The request that's before you is brought submitted to the city by Joshua Aaron, who's owner of the property.

[2:16] The properties are located at 6013 and 6019, Cedar Lake Road, and

[2:22] the applications before each other are rezoning of these properties from our three two family residents to our four multiple family residents.

[2:29] A preliminary and final plat of the combination of the two properties.

[2:33] The plan will be known as Cedar Heights Estates, and then a condition to use permit to construct

[2:38] a multiple family residence.

[2:40] The properties are identified on the aerial photo on the screen.

[2:43] There are four single family homes on the south side of Cedar Lake Road.

[2:47] The subject property is the two easterly property, properties.

[2:51] It's adjacent to the city's municipal water facility, and then of course the remaining two

[2:57] single family homes to the west.

[2:59] It backs up to a wetland, that's approximately 40 acres in an area, and of course single

[3:04] family homes to the north, and an office development to the east.

[3:09] The property again is on south side of Cedalic Road between Blackstone and Alabama, just west

[3:14] of the Zarathon roundabout.

[3:18] Tascal was pictured at the top right corner of the screen.

[3:24] Taking a quick look at the properties, we see that they are combined, 1.69 acres total,

[3:30] However, there's about 1.27 acres of dry land.

[3:34] The remaining land is wetland, which makes up

[3:38] the southerly quarter of the property.

[3:41] A lot combined is 175 feet wide.

[3:44] Approximately 430 feet deep, and then 310 feet

[3:47] from the front property line to the wetland edge.

[3:51] The elevation change is approximately 20 feet.

[3:54] Most of that elevation change happens just about

[3:56] as you get to the white line. So the majority of the property is relatively flat until you get to about the tree lines

[4:03] then it drops substantially.

[4:08] The proposal is to build a three-story apartment building.

[4:12] It's approximately 36 feet 10 inches tall. There is a three-foot pair put on top of it which raises it to about 39 feet 10 inches.

[4:22] Maximum height allowed for the gestorist is 40 feet.

[4:26] The apartment building would contain 36 units,

[4:28] The table that's on the screen which is also included in your packet shows the breakdown of the units

[4:34] Most of the units are one bedroom or studios

[4:38] There are nine two bedrooms or two bedrooms plus done combination

[4:46] Taking a quick look at the site plan. Just kind of give a quick rundown of it

[4:50] Cedar Lake Road is on the north part of the property. Of course, the wetland is highlighted in blue on the south end of the property

[4:58] Starting a Cedar Lake road. We have

[5:00] Three on three parking spaces that exist today, they will be reshaped and relocated, so they will be maintained.

[5:06] The horseshoe driveway with two access points, one in the west, one to the east. Within the horseshoe, we have four additional parking spaces up by the apartment building. One of those will be handicapped.

[5:18] A driveway access will run down the west property line to provide access to the undergone parking and then three parking stalls at the very end of that driveway.

[5:29] The ground floor units will have direct access outside with paddios, interconnected with

[5:34] sidewalks on both sides of the building.

[5:37] The structure parking is below the structure, of course, and most of it is underground, as

[5:43] the north part is primarily rectangular and shape.

[5:47] However, the building itself, the apartment building that is visible above that parking structure

[5:52] is relatively straight line line, light not straight wall along the east side.

[5:59] But on the west side we have some building wall deviation,

[6:04] squeeze some elevation and further distance from the west property lines.

[6:08] Some amenity space will be provided in the space created by the apartment building

[6:13] being moved a little bit more to the east and then of course the park structure

[6:17] below it in this area.

[6:18] So,

[6:21] talking about the yards a little bit, the front yard requirement for this particular

[6:27] building is 36.9 feet, they're providing 63.5 feet, and if we look at how that relates

[6:33] to the buildings on either side, we have the two single family homes to the west, and

[6:37] the city structure to the east, we see it is set back a little further, that is to make

[6:41] room for the horseshoe driveway in the parking, but also some additional landscape to enhance

[6:46] the presence on the street.

[6:48] The rear setback is 25 feet minimum and they're providing 180 feet to the rear property line and then 65 feet to the wetland.

[6:57] Side setbacks are a little more complicated to calculate. I made an attempt at explaining that in the packets before you.

[7:06] I won't go into that detail here today, other than to say that the west side, the setbacks required minimum setbacks range from 18.5 feet to 38.5 feet.

[7:15] Since we are looking at one extended wall, which is the park structure, the entire park

[7:21] structure has to meet the maximum setback of 38.5 feet, which it does, it's set at 46 feet.

[7:28] And of course, we have additional setback for that visible portion of the building above

[7:32] the ground, which shows ranges from 64 feet to 77 feet from that side property line.

[7:38] And then on the east side, we have required setbacks that range from 15 to 35 feet.

[7:45] and the building is set back from 28 to 36 feet so it meets the side setbacks are also.

[7:50] The building was intentionally positioned to get us closer and meet the minimum setbacks

[7:56] on the east side so that the majority space could be preserved on the west side to provide

[8:02] more distance to the single family home to the west and of course to provide room for the

[8:07] driveway access and amenity space over there too.

[8:09] The

[8:14] minimum parking required for the development is 43 spaces.

[8:18] They are providing 51 spaces on site, 44 of those spaces are in the structure underneath

[8:23] the building, which is pictured on the right.

[8:25] There are seven parking spaces on the surface outside of the building, as noted before, three

[8:31] of them are at the end of the drive aisle on the south, four of them are in front of the

[8:35] building itself.

[8:37] There are additional three on-street parking spaces that technically count towards the

[8:41] required parking, but as noted, 43 spaces are required to provide 51 on-site, so if

[8:49] we add the three on-street parking spaces are up to 54.

[8:53] There are additional 43 bike parking spaces provided, and there are five level two electric

[9:00] vehicle charging stations provided with the capacity of adding 20 more.

[9:07] Landscaping meets code, they're required to meet 36 trees.

[9:10] They have 37 on site between the existing and proposed.

[9:15] Tree replacement calculation is summarized on the screen.

[9:19] They're removing 162 caliber inches.

[9:21] They're required to replace 89 caliber inches.

[9:24] They are actually putting in 79 caliber inches remaining 10.

[9:28] They're going to do a cash and lieu dedication,

[9:30] which totals $2,250.

[9:33] The city will use that money to plant trees

[9:35] along the right-of-way and parks in the area.

[9:40] The designed outdoor recreation area,

[9:42] Otherwise, known as Dora is required for this development.

[9:45] 12% of the land has to be set aside for recreational purposes for the tenants of the building.

[9:51] They're required to have 6,644 square feet.

[9:54] They're providing 7,463 in that area is broken down in the three areas.

[9:59] You

[10:00] On the screen. One is up in front of the building along Cedar Lake Road, approximately 560 feet up there. A larger area is provided on the west side of the building. 2,200 square feet. That will include a lap pool and patio area. Then on the south part of the building is the majority of space with 4,600 square feet that will be a mix of a dog run patio area and lawn for games and such.

[10:33] system on the south side of the building.

[10:36] The system is reviewed by the many how Creek Watershed District and of course the city

[10:40] and it does meet the standards.

[10:42] Some minor tweaks that need to be involved, but there's no issues or hurdles that need

[10:46] to be overcome.

[10:51] The plant, the land is currently unplatted so it has to be platted before it can be combined.

[10:57] So we're looking to act on a preliminary and final plait combined process here.

[11:02] The plat again is to be known as cedar heights of states and

[11:06] With this dedication we're asking for easements the typical utility easements around the boundary and then the

[11:12] Larger easement you see on the to the south is large enough to contain the wetland the floodplain and a 20-foot buffer

[11:19] That is required by the watershed district along the wetland ditch

[11:23] Parked edications also required at 62,100 that includes 1500 per unit for park and a trail dedication a 225 per unit

[11:35] As noted, one of the applications is a rezoning.

[11:39] Properties currently zone R32 family residents.

[11:41] Apartment buildings are not allowed in this district.

[11:44] The R32 family residents allow single family and two family.

[11:47] So in order for an apartment building to be approved on this property,

[11:51] it has to be rezoned to our four multiple family residents.

[11:54] We look at the zoning in the area.

[11:57] We see that to the north of Cedalic Road we have R2 single family.

[12:00] The four existing single family lots on the south side of Cedulate Road and the city property are zoned our three two family residents.

[12:10] There's office development to the east and commercial death development a little further east includes the Casco Home Depot area.

[12:18] Property to the south of the subject property is zoned parking open space.

[12:23] There is some R4 zoning district area a little further to the east than

[12:28] contains some town homes and apartment buildings.

[12:31] Property to the west is owned industrial.

[12:36] When we look at the comprehensive plan, we see that the four residential

[12:40] properties are guided, medium density residential, the medium density residential

[12:46] corresponds with both the R3 and the R4 zoning districts, so a comprehensive plan

[12:51] amendment is not required for this rezoning.

[12:58] Within the staff report, you'll see several

[13:00] conditions that need to be met for a condition use permit. I won't go into detail in each

[13:05] of those, but it will summarize by simply stating that the staff finds that the design meets

[13:11] the code requirements. The plan is not detrimental to the health, safety, and general offer of

[13:16] the community. It is consistent with city plans and service capacity, and that includes traffic

[13:22] capacity on Cetolic Road. A lot of comments received at the neighborhood meeting were concerns

[13:28] about traffic on Cetolic Road and parking in the area. So we did look at traffic

[13:33] accounts, the history of traffic accounts on Cetolic Road. And there's two segments

[13:37] who will briefly talk about today. One segment is directly in front of the subject property.

[13:42] Another segment is further west adjacent to this one but basically extending east of Louisiana.

[13:49] But looking at this segment directly in front of this subject property, we note that the

[13:54] last traffic count was done in 2020, which is of course the COVID year and the traffic

[13:59] counts did drop considerably to 5,800.

[14:03] So we're going to look before that to get more of a trend of what's going on in Cadelic

[14:08] Road.

[14:08] Unfortunately, they're taken every four years, so we're expecting traffic on to be taken

[14:12] this summer.

[14:13] So if we look at the count before the last traffic count before 2020 was 2017, the count

[14:18] to 11,900. And as we continue to look past that every four years, we see that the traffic

[14:23] accounts have been relatively stable. However, in around 11,500, 11,900 trips per day.

[14:34] So no real change along Cedar Lake Road, this segment as we move further west, again, the

[14:41] segment that extends east of Cedar Lake Road. And I want to look at this one specifically

[14:46] because along that stretch, we did have, in this time frame, the construction of the CNL

[14:51] apartments. So it's worth seeing what impact that had on that segment. So starting

[14:57] Again, with 2009.

[15:00] The traffic cons for 12,600. In 2013 the traffic cons declined a little bit to 12,200. The apartments

[15:07] were built in 2015 and then the next cons were done in 2017 and the traffic cons declined

[15:12] a little more. They went down to 11,500.

[15:17] Many things impact the traffic cons of course

[15:19] but the traffic cons are a very real indication of the activity occurring on the roads.

[15:25] So, in talking to the engineering department with a Cedalic road, which was reconstructed

[15:32] in 2019, has a design capacity of 17,230, which is a projected traffic volume in 2040.

[15:40] And so they have no concerns of a 36 unit department building being constructed on this

[15:44] site.

[15:48] A neighborhood meeting was conducted on January 30th of 2024.

[15:52] We had 18 people sign in, a few people came in during the meeting.

[15:57] comments were received and the letters that are in front of you in the staff report and also

[16:01] placed in front of you today are a really good summary of the comments that were received at that

[16:05] meeting. So I have nothing else to add other than say please look at those comments and take those

[16:10] into consideration.

[16:15] So based on the application and the study conducted by the staff, chairs recommending

[16:20] that the chair conduct and close the public hearing and is recommending motions to recommend approval

[16:27] of the submitted applications with the conditions as recommended by staff which

[16:32] includes the park and trail dedication for the preliminary and final

[16:35] plan.

[16:38] And with that I'll take any questions that you have, the applicant,

[16:42] Joshua Aaron along with Sheldon Bird Principal, architect is here to answer any

[16:45] questions that you might have. And I believe they're also prepared to talk a little

[16:48] bit more about the building itself. Thank you so much. Do any members of the

[16:53] commission have any clarifying questions before we open the public hearing.

[16:58] I have a couple, Gary, if you don't mind going back, sorry, there, that one.

[17:06] The park dedication just to confirm that 62,000 that is paid for by the developer, which I correct.

[17:12] It is paid for by the developer.

[17:14] Yes. And then the Cedar Lake Road, the construction that's coming up by Louisiana with the roundabout and all of that.

[17:22] Will that come down this far, or is that not part that doesn't affect this area, does it?

[17:28] No, this section was completed in 2015 or 2019, I think I said,

[17:34] 2019, so it won't come down this far.

[17:36] And then go back to the beginning where the rendering was of the building just to confirm

[17:41] that's the view if you're on Cedar Lake Road, is that right?

[17:45] It is, and I believe the architect will have more renderings for you.

[17:47] Great.

[17:50] Great. Okay. Yeah. Commissioner DeVitio. Yeah.

[17:54] Thank you. Sorry. I just want to just clarify the rationale for the rezoning is that because

[17:59] we believe it is in line with our comprehensive plan for the city. And that's our justification.

[18:07] I correct. It is in line with the comprehensive plan, which is medium-density residential,

[18:12] which again, accompanies both the R3 and the R4 district. Now, you could find that

[18:17] That's in the current zoning R3 meets that, the comprehensive plan also, so it's up to you as to whether or not you want to just determine to take that step to the R4 zoning or keep it at the R3 because both of them are consistent with the comprehensive plan.

[18:32] Understood. Thank you.

[18:35] For the public hearing, I just want to see if the developer in

[18:38] owner, do you want to talk now or at the end after all the

[18:40] comments are in? Do you have a preference?

[18:46] Go now, do you

[18:47] want to, if you want to come up to the microphone and just say

[18:50] a few words, this should be inside the public hearing, Sean

[18:52] or no, should, either way, okay, just introduce yourself.

[18:57] And good evening, Sheldon Berg with DJR Architecture. And we've

[19:03] and working with the developer and owner for the last few months.

[19:09] A couple of things I'd like to just quickly point out,

[19:14] just as highlighting some of the introduction that Gary gave us.

[19:18] So, thank you very much. For that, I think he covered most things.

[19:24] The first thing that I'd like to talk about is sort of the why.

[19:28] For the project, Josh was owned the property for 18 years

[19:32] and operate them as rental houses in that period and you know I think through the years you sort of thought about some other ideas for the property.

[19:44] We know that the City of St. Louis Park in their comprehensive plan is looking for other ways to bring new residents to the area.

[19:53] St. Louis Park by and large is built out so we have to look for and the comprehensive plan covers this.

[19:59] new one.

[20:00] We have a couple of locations for some additional housing for people as well as, obviously, places for people to work and other things. And the comprehensive plan says that they want to have them on transit corridors, places that are closer to either amenities or services and things. And I think that this property covers a lot of those bases. It's got, it's right next to the bike trail sidewalks.

[20:24] So your lake road has got transit on it, and then it's obviously close to the west end, which is just a little walk away.

[20:34] So in that regard, it checks a lot of those boxes and also gives the opportunity for people to have alternatives to take in a car.

[20:43] So they can bike walk in whatever to nearby uses to the west end and other areas or even off to Louisiana and some of those commercial notes.

[20:54] and so that's one part.

[20:56] The other is that what we've looked at doing with this project is creating

[21:02] some of the smaller scale housing that I think a lot of people are looking for.

[21:05] They honestly, you know, when people are looking at housing,

[21:08] some people don't want to live in a residence with 150 people, 200 people, whatever.

[21:14] And they maybe want some places not quite as urban.

[21:17] And I think for the, you know, in the largest part,

[21:19] St. Louis Park offers that opportunity and here specifically at this site, it offers

[21:25] that transition where you're close enough that you can go to the west and or go to Louisiana

[21:32] and get all the services that you need and yet you're in a little more smaller scale area.

[21:39] And so the three-story project that we're proposing with 36 units gives people that choice and I think

[21:47] it does so by being sensitive to the neighbors, sensitive to the neighborhood, as well.

[21:54] And as Gary had mentioned, we are within the comprehensive plan, so within the larger

[22:01] scope of the planning for the city.

[22:07] The, just to reiterate, a couple items, is that in the sighting of the building, we have

[22:13] take in special care to provide a little more distance and separation from both the single

[22:20] family house to the west, as well as from the Sierra Lake Road bikeway and things.

[22:27] And then by way of an increase in more intensive landscape along the front, given that buffer

[22:35] to the building scale as it's a three story versus the one and two stories around.

[22:41] And lastly, just a quick overview of, I think you probably saw this in the proposal.

[22:50] But the project is largely stucco with some limited-fibre cement and metal panel.

[23:02] Finishes a lot of large windows and a lot of large balconies that give a little more expansive

[23:08] of space for people to enjoy the wetlands that everybody in the neighborhood enjoys as well.

[23:15] And I think that that concludes kind of the overview of the items I wanted to just hit

[23:20] on and I can answer any questions if you have any, otherwise.

[23:25] Any commissioner or commissioner members, any questions?

[23:28] Oh, commissioner Youngquist.

[23:30] here if you could just I think is probably around the 12th or 13th page to the

[23:38] renderings just to give a quick look those for the end so they're maybe more like

[23:48] 21 or 20 as he's looking for this I want folks to know who are here are watching

[23:53] that the whole proposal exists online as well if you Google St. Louis Park Planning

[23:57] commission. So this view here, I'm on that page if you go to agendas and minutes fine today's

[24:04] date, this hall is there online as well. So go ahead. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. So this is

[24:09] a view as you'd recognize from Cedar Lake Road looking back toward from the north east looking

[24:16] more southwest. We have the drive up which provides some visitor parking and other things as well as

[24:24] and a place for service vehicles if they need to stop by the UPS to stop and do drop-offs

[24:31] as not going to interrupt the traffic that's on the Zurich Road.

[24:38] Next, here just a front view, more of a straight-on view, for that pedestrian access to the site

[24:44] with the main lobby in the front there in the middle with units above so that the community

[24:52] rooms and things front, Sierra Lake Road as well as a little bit to the west side.

[25:00] Next one, Gary. And then this is a view from the, from the northwest looking, looking back toward the Southwest. That shows the drive down to the underground parking.

[25:13] And shows some of landscaping and other improvements that were making there. And then lastly, there's a view, I think, of the rear, but the backside of the building that's facing the, the wetland with the trail that walks

[25:29] around the building and connect some of the 90 spaces on the south side facing the wetland.

[25:39] That's all the last thing I guess I'd mention is that the shadow study that we had done,

[25:47] which is the next page, Gary,

[25:52] shows that from the city's criteria, those two in the box there are

[25:58] the most important, where we're not getting close to neighboring buildings at the critical

[26:03] periods of the year.

[26:07] And then my final item that I add is that we do have fence screen on both east and west

[26:14] side, the west being the most important with the single family neighbor there.

[26:19] Any questions?

[26:21] We sure young guests have the question.

[26:22] Yeah, I've got a couple of clarifying questions.

[26:24] We'll start with the fencing because that's where you just left your statement.

[26:28] So the staff report says there's privacy fencing on the east and west.

[26:33] What type of material are you looking at?

[26:36] It's going to be a screen fencing.

[26:39] So it's either going to be a wood slat or maybe a metal slat or a roof slated fence, but

[26:47] it would be privacy screening.

[26:48] So they'll provide, you know, next to no vision through them.

[26:54] Right, with having the drive aisle, right, adjacent to the property to the west, that's

[26:59] important.

[27:00] Is there going to be fencing on the south side of the property to prevent people and pets

[27:04] from going into the wetland?

[27:05] There is a fence on the south side.

[27:08] It's intended, though, to be more transparent, or like a picket type fence.

[27:15] There's also a little retaining wall there, so it provides some safety for that as well.

[27:20] Okay, and then just one other question. Gary, can you go back to one of the front elevations?

[27:26] Oh, right there. So there's the landscaped area between Cedar Lake Road and the park,

[27:33] the parking spaces. It's hard to tell from these. Is there a slight berm there?

[27:38] There is a slight berm. Okay, so the landscaping will be elevated.

[27:43] Right, and then that's also true up closer to the building as well.

[27:46] There. Okay, look at that up a little.

[27:50] Yeah, I don't know if I saw any pictures.

[27:53] What's the building to the east again?

[27:55] Is it of a similar height or what it's the building to the east is the city.

[28:00] Water treatment, I think, building and it's probably, I don't know, 18, 20 feet.

[28:09] It's like a. It's it's shorter than this building,

[28:12] but it's more like a story and a half to two story because it's more of a commercial type building.

[28:26] Any other questions? Okay.

[28:29] Yes, go ahead.

[28:30] Sorry, I have actually a clarification, Gary.

[28:34] The three-story limit is that for the R4 zone or the R3 zone?

[28:43] The three stories of 40 feet is for the R4 district.

[28:48] The R3 is going to be more similar to the R1 and R2,

[28:53] 30 feet to midpoint of the cable.

[28:55] I believe the R3 was 35 feet.

[28:58] 35 feet to midpoint of cable.

[28:59] Two and a half stories, I think.

[29:01] Thank you. It's a five foot difference.

[29:03] Thank you.

[29:04] And thank you everybody for your patience.

[29:05] These are kind of the nitty-gritty details we have to go through

[29:07] at this stage in the approval process.

[29:10] And we are going to now open up the public hearing

[29:12] to hear from anyone who's interested in speaking.

[29:15] I just want to reiterate, this is not the final vote tonight.

[29:19] This thing does not live or die today.

[29:21] This will then go to the city council, just letting you all know.

[29:25] So these do know what the process is.

[29:27] And I just want to set some expectations that the planning commission does not have as much leverage in

[29:37] some of the things we can and can't consider on whether to approve this.

[29:41] Our task really is around whether this meets code,

[29:44] whether this meets all of those heights and all of those requirements that have

[29:50] been proposed. I'm not saying that to discourage you at all from speaking we

[29:54] absolutely want to hear from you because those will be forwarded to the

[29:58] City Council.

[30:00] Absolutely, but I just wanted to manage expectations in that regard. And if you're able, please limit your comments to three minutes. So right now, at this time, as I open the public hearing, I have two comment cards. If you have any more, you can bring them to Gary or Sean, and they'll bring them up here as well, if you want to speak as well. With that, I will open the public hearing. And the first person I have here to come speak is Gary Burshide from 1604 Blackstone. Gary, are you here? Hi.

[30:28] to

[30:32] speak into the mics and hand out because sometimes and we do have that just

[30:37] you know we have the handout right? Yes thank you go for it. Before I get onto

[30:43] this I noticed the traffic counts is almost maxed out compared to like the

[30:50] 2017 2019 if you look at the 2020 numbers that's the year the virus everybody

[30:57] to stay in home. So, of course, the numbers are very low. And I just wanted to say that

[31:05] seat like road is maxing out, or at least from my point of view, peak time is terrible. Anyway,

[31:14] on to the show. My name is Gary Burshite, I live at 1604 Blackstone Avenue. I've been there for 45

[31:23] years. I've seen these projects. They come, they go, and for various reasons, they die on the vine.

[31:32] The zoning, what they're proposing to go from eight units to 36 units is a one heck of a big

[31:40] step to go that high. Most of the neighborhood wouldn't care if it was eight units. For other reasons,

[31:49] The question is, how do you put 36 apartments into a unit, a piece of land?

[32:02] And how do you put the 36 units into the land of two houses that sat upon it?

[32:12] That's the big question.

[32:14] And from my point of view, it's called a sardine effect.

[32:17] You put all the little fishes into a little can, and now you stack the cans up.

[32:23] And that's how you get the high densities, which according to Zornie whatnot, if it

[32:31] was gone to R4, they can do it.

[32:38] Considering that right across the street is all residential, that's a lot of density in

[32:44] a residential area.

[32:45] But next question I have, if a builder decides to buy two adjoining properties, whether it's

[32:56] a lake forest area or westward hills, they want to take the houses down and put a 36-unit

[33:02] apartment in those two neighborhoods, would you let them do it?

[33:07] I doubt it.

[33:09] I doubt it.

[33:11] So the question is, why are you doing it to us?

[33:16] There's two major design flaws with this project.

[33:19] It's a lack of parking.

[33:22] When you consider that a lot of these units will have married couples.

[33:26] They will have a car for him, car for her, and they'll drive two different directions.

[33:32] It'll be very quickly to fill up that parking space.

[33:36] And the question then is where do they park?

[33:38] Once it's full.

[33:39] They go into the neighborhood.

[33:42] that's the only place I can go. If they have friends over on Friday night and

[33:47] everybody's home, where do they park? You're going to max it out. And you can see on

[33:55] the map there that is filled over into the neighbor's hoods. So this magical

[34:02] buffer area is broken because the neighbor is close to him. We'll have to put up

[34:08] with it. Oh yeah, Super Bowl parties coming up. A good example. The second flaw is I live

[34:18] at the bottom of that blackstone hill at 16th and blackstone. I don't know if you're

[34:24] familiar with that doubt. But when the snow is falling over a period of time, that hill

[34:29] gets really slippery. And I've seen school buses, trucks, even a snow plow trying to make

[34:37] it up the hill. The snowflows come down the hill, but not up. So to go out of that parking

[34:44] ramp, they have to go up the hill, 20 feet to get out. Once the first car spins out,

[34:52] that's it. Until they get the car out of there, nobody goes anywhere. When they get to the

[34:58] top of the hill.

[35:00] There is a snow plow, wash, because that seat like road is wide at that point. There's a lot of snow, a lot of ice, a lot of sand just coming off those plows. So once I get to the top of the hill, can they make it through? I've been up there snow blowing over the years, and that's a mess.

[35:22] If you have any final thoughts, we'd love to hear them. If you have any final thoughts, the three minutes are up, but please feel free to give us.

[35:29] Real quick, according to the 2020 census, there are 3,600 people in St. Louis Park that's living in poverty.

[35:43] But we need more reasonably priced affordable homes, not upper scale places that would run $3,000 per month.

[35:54] Most people in poverty can afford it.

[35:57] And lastly, in my opinion of zoning for the sardine, can stack projects should be denied

[36:06] because there's simply too much and too little of a space.

[36:10] The only public purpose of this project is to make money for Josh at the expense of

[36:16] our neighborhood.

[36:18] Thank you.

[36:18] Thank you, Gary, for that comment.

[36:21] And we do have your written statement as well.

[36:24] so we have that on hand here. Thomas Peterson, 6625, LA View Road.

[36:33] Good evening. Good evening.

[36:36] We have very little control over global warming as people in 60-foot lots.

[36:45] This project, if it's rezoned, I recommend you table it for a year, a year and a half until Gary

[36:53] gets the whole act together for all at St. Louis Park, rezoning all the different districts,

[37:00] getting rid of all the numbers and everything.

[37:02] And then after him and his staff look at it again, maybe we can give this a try.

[37:10] But right now I think we should table this for a year until all the zoning things get reworked.

[37:18] Second of all, the greenery of this building is zero.

[37:25] He wants to put in brackets for solar someday.

[37:32] It's the only green thing he's doing with this building.

[37:36] Planning commissions over this whole country can control global warming and how much asphalt we put down.

[37:42] If this project ever goes through, which should have a green roof, it should have 25% recycled

[37:51] materials and building it.

[37:53] It should have bird sanctuary areas and butterflies.

[37:58] Because right now, if you look at the Edgewood Industrial Park, if you block from here, from

[38:04] there, you're looking at a maximum of 5% grass.

[38:10] They took a whole swamp area and turned it into asphalt and flat top roofs.

[38:18] St. Louis Park is better than that.

[38:20] We have hundreds of units, a few blocks away that are empty.

[38:26] And if you're going to go for a high-buck building, high-buck people would like a green building.

[38:34] They're part of the sales of it.

[38:36] you can live in a green building, we take all our gray water, the new technology and reuse it,

[38:44] no water leaves the site,

[38:47] on a grass area here, so green ruffs and everything, so I think we should

[38:52] move in a whole new direction with St. Louis Park, because right now every time I walk through the

[38:59] industrial park at Edgewood, there's more of these land owners are cutting down trees.

[39:07] It's ridiculous and there's stipulations when they build these buildings they have to have trees they have to keep them up and

[39:16] There's two properties down there with no grass

[39:20] It's just asphalt and stuff in the global warming. There's this out of control and you gentlemen ladies and gentlemen have control

[39:30] Over what St. Louis Park does we have enough apartment buildings

[39:34] just matter if we want to go this route on this building and I don't think we

[39:39] should. Thank you. Appreciate your comments. Next up we have Dominique

[39:46] Vercini of 6101 Cedar Lake Road. Hi, how are you? So yes, I'm the owner of 6101 and I

[39:57] don't really personally care whether that building is built.

[40:00] I just wanted to give some opinion on I think it's a sad move. We're replacing the terms single family home with density, low density, high density. And I agree with the sardine thing. It's about packing a bunch of people. I moved here. I mean, I've lived in San Luis Park for 20 years, but I've moved there three years ago thinking, how nice, you know, those houses. I lived in apartments before. This I'm not saying that your building is not good looking.

[40:29] you know, but it's very generic. Everything looks alike. You walk in buildings. Everything looks identical. Everybody is packed together.

[40:39] No individuality. So that's one thing I wanted to say.

[40:42] I'm concerned about the wetland. I know it's there to stay. I know it cannot be destroyed or removed.

[40:51] But I see from my window the deer, the coyotes, you know the eagles. And of course it's kind of affected.

[40:56] You know, you have a bunch of people barbecuing late at night, you know, the noise, the light.

[41:02] So I wanted to mention that, too.

[41:06] And yes, it's just going to look like, you know, Lake Ahun, you know, those areas, all those big buildings.

[41:14] It looks like everywhere, you know, and a bunch.

[41:17] And people, it's true.

[41:18] People, I lived in apartments for 20 years.

[41:21] People don't stay long.

[41:22] The only people who stare at the people who can't afford having a baby they try to move out.

[41:27] These are young professionals who don't plan to have children, party, you know what I mean?

[41:32] I don't think it's an improvement for the neighborhood.

[41:36] Thank you.

[41:37] Thank you.

[41:38] Appreciate it.

[41:39] Julia Alzen, 6010 Cedar Lake Road.

[41:44] Hello.

[41:45] So my house is the one with a pretty white driveway.

[41:50] Lovely.

[41:50] So I, uh, we've got our house. Yes. So I'm literally probably, I mean, I, I realize there

[41:55] will be else is affected, but me and Tate, who's to the right, if I'm standing this way,

[42:00] he can't be here today, um, probably really get affected probably the most because I'm

[42:04] like right front and center. So my front window is going to literally face all their windows.

[42:09] We spent, we bought the house December of 19, spent a whole lot of money widening our driveway,

[42:15] which City of St. Louis Park was nice about doing so for me it's more traffic it's I'm with them

[42:21] where I know the projections look like oh we can have more traffic. I leave at 830 in the morning

[42:28] with a wide driveway and sometimes it takes me two to three minutes just to even get out of my

[42:34] driveway. Sometimes I have to take a left because I can't go right. I mean it's just and then I

[42:40] end up like spending a couple more minutes trying to get to work because I have to go through the

[42:43] west end to go back around when I can't go down Louisiana. So for me it's more

[42:47] traffic. I just spent my Sunday morning cleaning up glass off the front of my

[42:52] driveway because when people come in from the west end they drive they walk down

[42:55] my street and dump their their booze bottles all over our streets. So I spent I

[43:01] don't know like an hour on my Sunday morning clean up glass so I didn't run it

[43:04] over with my tires. So I feel like am I gonna get a little bit of that when I have

[43:09] more traffic in front of my house. I mean, hard to know. But I mean, I moved to the West End.

[43:16] I don't have a little bit of a quiet life. Even though I'm on the seat of my home, I know what I

[43:20] bought. But just adding more people for me is just going to be more traffic. I have

[43:25] in front of my house, I have what's at like the brick that's really tall that the city put up.

[43:30] I don't need people sitting over there because they're hanging out with their friends. And this

[43:34] my front yard having cigarettes and beers and stuff because it's right out front of the apartment building

[43:38] Because maybe they want to hang out with some friends and they don't want to be in their apartment building

[43:41] That's the kind of stuff that I look at and I have to look at it at my front window. So for me, that's kind of the big thing for myself. So

[43:49] Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it

[43:57] Okay, next up. Don't sit down. Come on up

[44:01] Sue Mac is that five nine one two five nine one two cedar lake road. Yes

[44:06] So Sue Mac five nine one two cedar lake road. We've been there 15 years

[44:10] We are literally the roundabout when you're going west.

[44:16] There's four houses on that first block.

[44:19] We're the third one in.

[44:20] The only one on that block that has a driveway on Cedar Lake.

[44:25] So five years ago when they were redoing Cedar Lake,

[44:30] one of the main reasons for that area was the backup of the traffic

[44:35] because of that red light.

[44:37] it has really improved a lot until the last year or so.

[44:44] And I think it's because a lot of people are going back into the work for

[44:48] so the traffic is really picking up again on Cedar Lake at certain times of the day.

[44:55] My office, I work at home permanently now.

[44:58] So my...

[45:00] Office faces Cedar Lake, kind of kitty corner towards the roundabout. There are probably three, four times a day that the traffic is backing up past the water treatment just to get around the roundabout. And that roundabout was supposed to alleviate a lot of that. The last year or so, I have noticed it has really increased my concern is, and when the roundabout was put in, we had to give up being able to turn left

[45:29] out of our driveway because of the median and we were a thousand percent

[45:34] support if you go back in the meetings I got up and I said I'm supportive of

[45:37] that because it was the best for the neighborhood the flow of traffic. I

[45:42] understand it's only 36 units but like somebody else had said that's at least

[45:47] probably 72 cars around if every if it's two people it live in a

[45:54] apartment each person probably has a car that doesn't sound like a lot but it's

[45:58] certain times of the day it could really back up.

[46:02] The fire department uses that as a thoroughfare, so I mean adding additional cars, I know

[46:10] it says that it could handle it, but if somebody who sees it all day I'm not sure.

[46:16] And then there's a lot of walkers, there's a lot of bikers, yes I know there's bike trails

[46:21] on there.

[46:22] There's still close calls. We've had a couple bicyclists get hit at the roundabout.

[46:28] Coming off the side streets, the visibility is not the greatest.

[46:33] The side streets you have, everybody has driveways, but again, those houses they could have two

[46:39] or three cars. When there's a lot of snow you go around the block like I have to go around

[46:44] the block. Oh God. I have to go around the block. And if you have people parked on the side

[46:49] a road and there's snow you can't get through. I also want to say about the

[46:54] nature life. There are so many turkeys and squirrels and chipmunks and rabbits

[47:02] especially in that area right by the water treatment center because in the

[47:07] back it's completely open. One house has been empty for a while. There is always

[47:13] turkeys in there. You put in a building like this they're going to be gone. The

[47:17] The transient population is a concern.

[47:20] One of the reasons we bought the house is because it's a single family area.

[47:24] We have how many buildings that they're cramming over where Olive Garden and all of that

[47:29] was.

[47:30] I walk over there and I'm actually really kind of surprised.

[47:33] The density over there.

[47:36] Now if they were all full all the time and there was a need for more $3,000 even $1,500

[47:43] a month apartments, I'd be fine.

[47:45] I personally, if they want, if you want to approve anything and if you want to, I'm not

[47:51] against somebody doing something better with their property, I would personally love

[47:55] to see townhouses where you're going to encourage families and not just single family, single

[48:02] two income people, our school district will do better by having more families.

[48:07] It's one of the reasons we moved here 25 years ago from Pennsylvania solely to St. Louis Park

[48:13] when we started looking to come to Minnesota because of the schools, we want to encourage

[48:18] families. More apartments are not going to encourage families. I think that's all

[48:25] I wanted to say. Yeah, I think that's it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Those are all

[48:33] the cars I have. If there's anyone else, kind of speak now for everholder. Well, no, actually

[48:38] not for everholder piece because this is going to the City Council next. You're more than

[48:42] So welcome to come up, sir, if you would mind introducing yourself and you're telling

[48:47] us your address just for the record.

[48:57] But even council.

[48:58] Okay.

[49:00] I'm going to advocate for and that's like, can you just give your name and address real quick,

[49:05] sorry.

[49:05] Oh, my name is Todd Tills.

[49:07] My address is 6-0-1-9 C-2-Lake.

[49:11] Okay, great.

[49:11] Sorry about that.

[49:13] All right.

[49:15] I'm here to advocate for moving this project to another location because I like St. Louis Park to grow.

[49:25] But the main factors against having it there is a lot of people already spoke about it, right?

[49:31] The wildlife and the wetlands, the traffic, the safety concerns, right?

[49:37] It's going to make people who don't live here, that building is going to be a target for people

[49:43] that want to go through cars, right? Try to sneak in the building and go through the

[49:47] grouges. I've seen it multiple times.

[49:54] And also there's a veteran on the oxygen tank that's

[49:58] I cannot lose this home because of this.

[50:01] And it's kind of messed up. He's been a loyal renter for probably two decades, and, um,

[50:13] beyond us that, that house is not, the landlord has not kept up with it. Is integrity, I would

[50:20] say, is reflected in all of his properties, which lacks kind of a terrible condition.

[50:29] So I, excuse me,

[50:35] as a veteran myself, I just kind of like, it hurts to see somebody end up losing for the profit of somebody who's selfish and can't take care of their own stuff.

[50:48] So yeah, traffic's a bad idea.

[50:53] I've seen cars straight up go through that roundabout and have to pull them out myself.

[51:00] Yeah, safety, major concern, and then, yeah, just who's going to be succeeding for this

[51:11] project?

[51:12] I think St. Louis Park could pick better people to make prosperous from all of this.

[51:20] Yeah, I would love to see it.

[51:23] It's beautiful, but in a different location where it could really help people.

[51:30] and not affect people that call St. Louis Park their home and force them out or like you know have

[51:39] people go through their houses and not their houses but like their garage spots right and breaking

[51:45] their cars and stuff. So I know there's an uptick in crime in St. Louis Park lately because of the

[51:51] populous growing and a lot of that is leaking from Minneapolis. So adding more people to St. Louis Park in

[51:56] in the right place would be a good idea,

[51:59] but yeah, thank you.

[52:03] Thank you.

[52:04] Thank you.

[52:05] Any other comments?

[52:08] If you have that card filled out,

[52:09] you can just bring it up here.

[52:11] Well, yeah, because we, it's just so we can

[52:13] for the record keeping on the backend.

[52:15] So introduce yourself at Gary.

[52:18] Sorry.

[52:18] Greg, Greg, sorry about that.

[52:19] Thanks for your time, everyone.

[52:21] My name is Greg.

[52:21] I own the house immediately next to the two subject

[52:25] properties there. I would just like to point out there's some pretty historic

[52:29] Elms, American Elms trees back on the lots. If any credence could be paid to those, I mean

[52:35] I know San Luis Park is subsidizing homeowners to try to maintain those trees on their own properties.

[52:41] So it does, it does seem like a bit of a waste to clear out that kind of thing. Especially

[52:46] there's one in front that I think is probably 70 to 100 years old that is really pretty and

[52:52] in good shape, and would provide some of the aesthetic and nature that we appreciate about the lot already, and some screening as well, so other than that, that's what I got.

[53:06] Thank you.

[53:07] Thank you.

[53:12] I didn't hear you.

[53:13] Is it possible to see the back fence?

[53:15] The back view, the view from the back.

[53:19] I don't think we have a rendering of what the fence will look like.

[53:22] We know it will be a fence, but we don't have a picture of what it will look like.

[53:27] Are there any other comments anyone else like to speak?

[53:31] I would love to give an opportunity to folks who haven't spoken.

[53:35] And I would just also encourage you, sir, you could submit subsequent written comments.

[53:39] This again is going to the City Council next, just so you know.

[53:43] So I'm just going to see if anyone else here.

[53:47] Okay. Well, with that, I am going to close the public hearing and turn it back to the

[53:55] commission for conversation. I think we have some conversation. So, should I bring a key?

[54:03] I guess in my mind, this project is sort of marginal. I support the idea of increasing density

[54:13] be along transit quarters, if it supports our goals of affordable housing.

[54:21] In this case, so I just wonder if the practice is just at least slightly too big.

[54:27] One indication is just the seven surface parking spots.

[54:32] I think there is possibility of overflowing in the neighborhood, that's just one indication.

[54:41] Also, for converting single family homes, you know, we're going to start liking single family homes but if we do that, you know, I would like to see in support of affordable housing and I'm not sure this project really does that.

[54:57] So I'm

[55:00] No, I'm required to vote against it unless, but I'll listen to other people's comments, too, so. Thank you, Commissioner. Anyone else? Any other comments?

[55:11] Rackle? Yeah.

[55:14] Thanks for speaking, Todd. I certainly, of the comments, because I'm generally in support of a project like this. I think that it meets the needs of what we're looking for. I think the one thing that you said that really kind of bothered me is the

[55:29] the, um, the treatment of the previous tenants and how that's being handled, I think that

[55:34] that is unfortunate. And,

[55:41] uh, however, um, I think that that does need to be brought to

[55:46] the City Council's attention because that's not a criteria on which this body can determine

[55:51] whether this passes or fails tonight. But I did want to make a mention of it and say, please

[55:56] do attend the City Council meeting and, uh, speak further on that issue. Um, otherwise, um,

[56:04] I mean, when it comes to traffic, I mean,

[56:12] this is, we have a market-based housing system

[56:16] in this country, and I know that if I'm going to choose where to live, and I know I have

[56:22] two cars or three cars, I'm not going to rent somewhere that doesn't have a place for

[56:26] me to put those cars.

[56:29] I imagine that there will be a pricing scheme on the parking.

[56:32] It's not going to be free to just bring your car in for yourself or a guest. I

[56:38] Generally, I'm not concerned by the number of parking spaces for that reason alone

[56:46] Because if if I knew that I couldn't store my private property in a place that I was I was paying for I would not live there

[56:54] And I think that that's as we know that these are market rates not affordable housing

[56:59] we're not the people who are going to be moving in or moving in here by choice, they are not going

[57:04] to be subject to, well, I need to figure out how to make this work. And I'm going to hide my car

[57:08] wherever I can. It's, you know, it's choice housing. Like, somebody's going to make the decision,

[57:14] whether or not this, the parking scheme in this building works for them. And so, um,

[57:21] that's one of the reasons why I think that, like, I think this development is fairly thoughtful.

[57:25] and I think that it's a, as we're looking at places to add more housing in St. Louis Park,

[57:32] I do think that it belongs near the west end. It belongs near places with higher traffic

[57:40] roads as opposed to interior neighborhoods. So I'm in support of this project, and that's

[57:47] all I have.

[57:49] Any other members?

[57:51] Christian Derecha?

[57:52] Yeah, I have some thoughts I'd like to share.

[57:55] I really appreciate the dialogue.

[57:57] It's really awesome to hear from people in the community.

[58:01] But I want to just react to some comments.

[58:05] I would say overall, I'm also in favor of prioritizing housing over parking.

[58:11] So when I think about, you know, if it was just, you know, parking versus this,

[58:16] I would rather pick the option to create land and space for people to live,

[58:22] rather than for our cars to live.

[58:24] And so, to me, the parking is not as a strong argument for me.

[58:29] The traffic recognized that there's probably a larger question around traffic.

[58:34] You know, say, you know, roughly there's 50 parking spots, one of the comments commented

[58:40] people leaving 10 times a day, which I think is a lot.

[58:42] 500 trips a day that's like less than 4% of the total numbers if you use the

[58:49] 2017 basis. That doesn't seem like an incredibly meaningful change in the

[58:56] traffic recognizing that yes okay maybe it's concentrated at certain times of

[59:00] day that feels like a little bit of a larger issue that would not be addressed

[59:07] here I don't basically I think this is kind of a drop in the bucket there.

[59:11] If there were specific constraints around how the site was designed around, we think

[59:17] that there would be backup of parking, that would be another thing, or backup of traffic,

[59:21] but I think that's not the case.

[59:25] I do want to react to some of the comments around just reiterating Commissioner Webber's

[59:33] points that, you know, I recognize this is rental, a lot of comments around single people,

[59:39] one single people are all supportive of our community too, people who don't want to have

[59:43] kids are also part of our community as well. They are also entitled to a place to live.

[59:50] And also it's not our role as planning commission to not pick up project just because we don't

[59:55] like how it looks. So, you know, I recognize those comments

[59:59] and surround.

[1:00:01] I think that's outside of our purview here. The one thing that I'm curious to hear thoughts from the other commissioners on is, basically, when do we find it appropriate to re-zone? I could see an argument to say the zoning of this is for R3, and thus only R3 should be here.

[1:00:25] Now, many of you might be aware, we are undergoing a large exercise to rezone the whole city and rethink

[1:00:33] these things, and so I could see an argument to say, table this until we do the re-zoning or have

[1:00:39] a conversation around how this fits with our future zoning plans. I think that wouldn't be unreasonable,

[1:00:47] but the intention of our re-zoning plans are to create opportunities for more density.

[1:00:54] But I could also I could see us wanting to think about this project in the context of

[1:01:00] that larger effort.

[1:01:03] And then the two pieces that I would be curious to discuss with the developer are just

[1:01:10] around I mean bike safety if there's something there that I don't I don't have an answer

[1:01:16] I don't think necessarily that there's opportunity now that there's bike parking and you know opportunities

[1:01:21] for people to have bikes there, but I'm not sure, is there something that can be done to address bike safety?

[1:01:27] And I am compelled by the support of the tree preservation as well.

[1:01:34] And so I would be curious to see if there is anything we could do to support maintenance of those trees.

[1:01:40] Yeah,

[1:01:43] there's any other comments from Commissioner Martin's.

[1:01:47] I just want to say that people are not inherently evil, nor called to a life of crime, because

[1:01:54] they rent. They don't need your judgment. And they are not less than you, because they

[1:02:00] are renters.

[1:02:04] Michael?

[1:02:05] Commissioner DeVach, I'd actually like to respond to the thought on the zoning. I think

[1:02:12] if this was in a vacuum, and I would tend to agree, it's like, well, we laid the zone

[1:02:16] and say, well, that's the rules we said.

[1:02:19] I think the two conditions are one.

[1:02:21] We know that the city of St. Louis Park has five zones,

[1:02:23] three of which are basically single family home districts.

[1:02:26] And the kind of does really,

[1:02:29] the whole reason we're making the change

[1:02:31] and rethinking how the thick is because

[1:02:33] when people come to our community

[1:02:34] and they say, what am I allowed to build on a property

[1:02:36] that I'm looking to buy?

[1:02:38] They can't actually figure it out

[1:02:39] because it's very confusing.

[1:02:41] And it was made confusing by design,

[1:02:43] by people in the past who were trying to rectify mistakes.

[1:02:49] I would say that because the second factor

[1:02:52] is that we have the comprehensive plan,

[1:02:54] we have the comprehensive plan, the 2040 St. Louis Park plan,

[1:02:58] and that is saying that this is a median density area.

[1:03:01] So part of the comprehensive plan is bringing zoning

[1:03:05] as it existed prior to the passage of that plan

[1:03:08] into compliance of that plan.

[1:03:10] So, while the entire city, the, we're working on the plans to bring compliance for the

[1:03:16] rest of the districts, this is, we already know that this is going to change.

[1:03:20] This is not going to be, there is not going to be an R3 in the future.

[1:03:24] This is going to be one of our new zones we're discussing.

[1:03:28] And so, I think that, I think whether it's R3 or R4 is almost a little academic because

[1:03:34] we know that it's going to fit into one of the zones that corresponds to medium density

[1:03:37] in the future.

[1:03:38] So, that's my thought on it, I will be open to hearing other thoughts on it as well.

[1:03:45] Thank you, I agree.

[1:03:50] There was a large effort put forward to develop the comprehensive plan.

[1:03:55] The 20-year vision of how we want St. Louis Park to grow and the zoning that is proposed here

[1:04:02] is consistent with those long-range plans.

[1:04:05] I would like to talk about housing in general.

[1:04:11] There is a housing crisis in this country, and in front of the Hanzo, there's a big issue.

[1:04:19] Minnesota and the rest of the country has under-produced housing.

[1:04:23] When there was the recession in the late 2000s, production of housing slowed down tremendously,

[1:04:34] But growth did not, and we are trying to make up for that lack of development of housing.

[1:04:43] And while this is a market rate development, there's an under supply of housing, adding any more housing is good to help for affordability of housing.

[1:04:55] So I appreciate folks coming out. I know you're very passionate.

[1:05:00] Question at about your neighborhoods, but I'm going to be voting in favor of this because it's consistent with the comprehensive plan. And it also provides missing middle housing, which we are trying to achieve, which is a step between lower density and the large apartments that you see at West stand. And that's a tough nut to crack. And I'm happy to see this being proposed here. Any other comments?

[1:05:29] I would just add to what Commissioner Devachia was asking you, the big question of when

[1:05:37] is it appropriate to rezone and just to maybe use a few fewer words in Commissioner

[1:05:42] Accom did, it's if it's still within alignment of the 2040 plan, then it's okay to rezone

[1:05:48] and this is.

[1:05:49] So that's why I'm okay with the rezone in question, tabling until we're done with the

[1:05:55] I don't see that as feasible only because I feel like we would have to table every development

[1:06:01] before this commission, this calendar year, and I actually think most of what will become

[1:06:06] before this commission is probably going to be pretty non-controversial, so I would hate

[1:06:09] to stop those developments as well.

[1:06:13] It's a very important question to ask, but I just want to let you know what my thinking is

[1:06:18] as well.

[1:06:20] And I think as we've mentioned here, just for the focus here, and I'm appreciative of you

[1:06:24] being here it's I think you can probably tell we're not heading in the direction that

[1:06:28] you a lot of people in this room want but I also want you to know that's only because

[1:06:32] of the parameters under which we rule. I appreciate if you think that's a cop out I also appreciate

[1:06:40] if you understand that that is actually our mandate and to be in contact with your members

[1:06:47] members of the City Council, they are very receptive to comments like we heard here today

[1:06:53] sometimes, apparently the comments here, but what I would say is all of these comments

[1:07:00] are being forwarded, and I have seen moments on this commission, which again has this limited

[1:07:06] scope. I have seen moments when there is input like this. There are moments where sometimes

[1:07:14] Sometimes the developer, sometimes the owner, and sometimes the members of the City Council,

[1:07:18] their own accord, decide to maybe rethink things.

[1:07:21] I'm not saying that will happen here, but I want you to say it is not impossible as well.

[1:07:26] And so I'm trying to add on a hopeful note as well for those of you who may not like what I think we're about to do.

[1:07:32] And so, but really thank you for being here tonight.

[1:07:36] If there's no other conversation, I will entertain a motion for this measure.

[1:07:43] or do you have, is this emotional comment?

[1:07:44] Oh, maybe additional comment, yeah.

[1:07:46] Okay, go ahead, go ahead.

[1:07:47] Yeah, when I was talking about parking before,

[1:07:49] about only seven parking lots of spots,

[1:07:53] it's not that I care about parking as much.

[1:07:57] I think there's not maybe that was the indication

[1:07:58] that it was the whole thing, which is kind of a little big.

[1:08:00] And at least my greatest possibility

[1:08:03] that visitor parking could overflow in the neighborhood.

[1:08:07] So maybe it was more of this indication, maybe it's just

[1:08:09] a little big.

[1:08:12] But riding more housing, especially a transit corridor,

[1:08:17] is a good goal, I support.

[1:08:21] But I think there are other goals.

[1:08:23] We also want owner occupied housing.

[1:08:27] I guess the house is a bit rented now,

[1:08:29] but at least someone could buy me at some point

[1:08:31] and be owner occupied.

[1:08:33] And another goal is housing suitable for families.

[1:08:39] I don't think most families typically

[1:08:41] want to live in a apartment building, so I think there are other goals here, so I don't

[1:08:51] know that we've been in a rush to do this for this one property at this point.

[1:09:00] Okay, thank you.

[1:09:02] Do I have any motions on this measure?

[1:09:11] I motion to, do we want to do separate motions, right?

[1:09:15] You can do it all right, all the different ones.

[1:09:21] It's your decision, how to frame those things.

[1:09:25] I think I'll just do one by one for simplicity.

[1:09:30] I'd motion to recommend approval of the application

[1:09:33] to Reson 60, 13, and 16, 19, Cedar Lake Road,

[1:09:38] from our three two family residents

[1:09:39] to our four multiple family residents.

[1:09:42] And you have notes in front of you,

[1:09:43] so you may have to do the other motions to this.

[1:09:45] Okay, that's a motion. Do we have a second second we have a motion a second all those in favor say aye

[1:09:53] Aye all opposed

[1:09:55] nay

[1:09:56] The motion carries is there another motion on the floor yes

[1:10:00] I motion to recommend approval of the application for preliminary and final plat of cedar cedar heights of states with conditions recommended by staff. Motion, do we have a second? Second. The motion in a second, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Aye. Motion carries. And then there's one more. I motion to recommend approval of the application for a conditional use permit to allow a three-story 36-unit apartment building with conditions

[1:10:30] that's recommended by staff.

[1:10:33] We have a motion to, oh, was that it or?

[1:10:36] Yes.

[1:10:36] Okay. Do we have a second?

[1:10:37] A second.

[1:10:38] We have a motion and a second all those in favor say aye.

[1:10:41] Aye.

[1:10:42] Opposed?

[1:10:43] May.

[1:10:43] The motion carries.

[1:10:45] And that concludes this item of business.

[1:10:47] We do have a few other things that we're going to go through.

[1:10:51] You are more than welcome to state.

[1:10:52] It is scintillating stuff.

[1:10:53] I want to assure you.

[1:10:55] You are also free if that was what you were here for.

[1:11:03] This is planned to be brought to City Council for consideration on February 20th.

[1:11:10] And while this is the public hearing, the Council's policy is to accept testimony on items

[1:11:16] on the agenda.

[1:11:18] So if you would like to speak there as well, you may.

[1:11:20] But all the information that was collected during this meeting will be passed along in part

[1:11:24] of the package of the materials that they receive.

[1:11:27] And that's in this that's in this room again. It is in this in this room at six o'clock, right? Or is it it varies?

[1:11:33] I think six thirties that standard time. Okay.

[1:11:36] Thank you all for being here. I'll

[1:11:42] just give it a minute here.

[1:11:43] I'm just gonna give it a minute.

[1:12:02] I

[1:12:07] I'm going to come back to the meeting here. We only have a couple other things. Next item on the agenda is

[1:12:14] Is other business Gary?

[1:12:18] Yes, there is other business.

[1:12:19] Other Gary, is there any other business?

[1:12:21] Yes, Mr. Chair, there is other business, I'm sorry, it wasn't included in the packet

[1:12:27] but we sent an email out to you today.

[1:12:30] We do need to do a election of officers on the first meeting of the new year and so we're

[1:12:37] looking for folks that are interested in being the Chair and Vice Chair.

[1:12:41] If you could hold the election of officers today that would be wonderful and then it would be effective at your next regular meeting or next meeting.

[1:12:49] Well, let's start with chair. Does anyone want to volunteer or nominate someone to be chair? I'll just kind of open it up to the world.

[1:12:58] I like to volunteer. I wanted to nominate me at you.

[1:13:01] Well, that's all we can take up this whole side of the table with all of you.

[1:13:06] Any other nominations or volunteering?

[1:13:11] Well, I guess let's just make this formal then.

[1:13:13] All those in favor of making Commissioner DeBacha our new chair, say aye.

[1:13:18] Aye.

[1:13:19] All opposed?

[1:13:21] I'll keep it open.

[1:13:22] No.

[1:13:25] Thank you.

[1:13:25] Thank you all for my year as chair I've enjoyed it as well.

[1:13:30] So I'll do the same now for Vice Chair, do we have any volunteers or nominations open

[1:13:37] my care.

[1:13:41] I would.

[1:13:41] Yeah, nominate.

[1:13:43] Matt.

[1:13:45] I would second.

[1:13:46] I suppose I have to ask to if you accept.

[1:13:50] I do accept.

[1:13:54] I just want to also point out just for going forward that Commissioner Merton's and Commissioner

[1:13:58] young quiz have not served yet. I'm not saying that you shouldn't, but I'm just saying going forward.

[1:14:03] There is. There is a good. I'm sorry. I heard yes over here. You said no. Okay. Well, just so you know,

[1:14:08] there's a goal. There's a general goal that at some point you take a leadership position. So obviously

[1:14:12] don't worry about this here, but we would love to know that that's in your brain going forward.

[1:14:19] Okay. All those in favor of Commissioner Accom being our vice chair say aye. Aye.

[1:14:23] Aye.

[1:14:24] Opposed?

[1:14:26] OK, carries.

[1:14:28] I thought about it.

[1:14:30] Any other business, Sean?

[1:14:32] No other business.

[1:14:33] Any other communications?

[1:14:35] And out at this time, no.

[1:14:36] I accept to note that immediately following this regular meeting

[1:14:39] and we determined we are moving into a study session where

[1:14:42] we'll be discussing the zoning code update

[1:14:45] and expanding neighborhood housing options.

[1:14:48] Great.

[1:14:49] Anything else for anyone?

[1:14:50] With that, this meeting is adjourned.

St Louis Park Planning Commission meeting Feb. 7, 2024

Agenda

Transcript