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[0:36] I call this executive session to order and the clerk will now take the roll.

[0:41] Senator Felskowski.

[0:42] Here.

[0:43] Senator Tom Chek.

[0:46] Here.

[0:47] Senator Jacques.

[0:48] Here.

[0:49] Senator Wimberg.

[0:50] Senator Habersenigan.

[0:52] Here.

[0:53] Senator Ratcliffe.

[0:53] A

[1:00] forum is present. We have one agenda item for today's executive session and I will entertain

[1:05] a motion to adopt the committee report. Motion by Senate, winner-bigger, second by Senator

[1:12] Tom Check.

[1:18] I'll open up today's discussion with the summary of the findings and recommendations

[1:21] of this report. After two days of testimony and reviewing thousands of documents, the Senate's

[1:27] The Special Committee on Oversight of the Department of Justice makes the following findings.

[1:33] Since 2019, the Department of Justice entered into agreements with outside organization

[1:38] like the Public Rights Project and the State Impact Center.

[1:42] These outside organizations would either pay stipend or pay the salary and benefits for a lawyer

[1:47] who would be embedded in the Department of Justice.

[1:50] These lawyers were appointed as Special Assistant Attorney General's or SIGS.

[1:55] These SAG agreements are not authorized by Wisconsin statutes.

[2:00] Long established practice requires the Department of Justice to request position authority in the state budget,

[2:06] or to make a 1310 request of the Joint Committee on Finance, to approve the acceptance of outside funds for a public purpose.

[2:14] At no point was the lawful process of requesting such positions in the budget or from the committee on Finance pursued.

[2:21] The SAG arrangements open up the Department of Justice to influence from outside partisan interests.

[2:28] These contracts for these agreements included favorable terms for the funding organizations,

[2:33] like power to remove for any reason, and guarantees on the subject matter of their work.

[2:38] Such a dynamic provides a de facto veto of a SAG's activity wholly unfamiliar to other situations,

[2:44] or an executive branch constitutional officer claims to be in full control of an agency.

[2:51] The agreements, combined with the lack of funding authority from the legislature, makes

[2:56] these sayings appear to be gifts from a third party. Such gifts would be prohibited

[3:02] by Wisconsin Statute, 19.45 for two possible reasons. First, it would be an impermissible

[3:09] gift to the Attorney General to accept something of value that could be reasonably expected

[3:14] to influence the state public officials, official actions or judgment.

[3:20] Second, the SAGs themselves would be sworn assistant attorney generals, who are accepting

[3:25] a full salary from an outside organization in an arrangement to which the Department of Justice

[3:30] and attorney generals would be parties.

[3:34] The privately funded SAGs exercised the same authority over Wisconsin citizens as legislatively

[3:40] approved attorneys.

[3:41] Despite signing volunteer agreements, the SAGs were assigned to at least 35 cases where they would defend the state or prosecute Wisconsinites.

[3:52] A complaint against Attorney General Cal, alleging the use of SAGs, violates Wisconsin ethics laws has been pending for 412 days without formal resolution.

[4:03] The top Department of Justice violated Wisconsin Statute 165.055, while utilizing all three

[4:11] stakes.

[4:13] Required appointment letters were not created or filed with the Secretary of State.

[4:17] Required also were taken after the start of their duties contrary to the text of the

[4:23] OS to which the stakes wore under penalty of perjury.

[4:26] The OS were not filed with the Secretary of State in a timely fashion.

[4:30] One special attorney assistant attorney general was not licensed to practice law in Wisconsin

[4:36] at the start of his tenure. All of these are violations of the requirements in Wisconsin

[4:42] statute 165.055. As a result of these findings, this report recommends the following.

[4:51] The discontinuation of the use of special assistant attorney general under the current framework.

[4:56] New legislation to clarify boundaries and strengthen accountability and oversight.

[5:02] New legislation to make sure only state employees may ever prosecute a Wisconsin citizen.

[5:10] Corrective measures to ensure compliance with existing statutes that were violated.

[5:15] A timeline for a resolution of formal ethics complaints and the state senate follow-up with the Department of Justice to ensure both a proper search

[5:25] and full disclosure of the records this committee requested on December 18th.

[5:34] Is there any other discussion on the motion?

[5:38] Senator Radcliffe.

[5:44] Thank you.

[5:47] I bound your speech at the chair.

[5:52] I found your speech at the end of our last committee meeting,

[5:57] basically indicating the falsehoods that you were going to put forward in the so-called report

[6:01] that Senator Habish, Senator Kenanai, only received yesterday, that you claim is from this committee,

[6:09] but we weren't collaborated on in this report at all.

[6:15] So I would like the record to reflect that this report was not done in a collaborative manner,

[6:21] and I feel the word oversight is in the committee title is really a joke.

[6:25] Uh, oversight is one of the most important responsibilities that we have as legislators to make sure that tax

[6:34] scholars are being spent efficiently and that we're making sure that our laws are being upheld and that we're working together.

[6:41] Both sides of the aisle, Democrats and Republicans working together to make sure that we're doing what Wisconsinites elected us to do.

[6:49] And when it's done, when it's done right,

[6:50] It's strengthens public trust, it improves government performance, and it ensures accountability to the people that we serve.

[7:00] So I guess that we have different definitions of oversight.

[7:04] Oversight must be grounded in facts, it must be fair, and it must be conducted with a genuine commitment to finding that truth.

[7:12] And unfortunately, that's not what we've seen in this committee, and this overall process has really been the complete opposite.

[7:20] It's also quite disappointing and frustrating to sit here and listen to members of this oversight committee

[7:27] use their influence in platforms.

[7:30] And an attempt to deceive and misinform the public to try to score some sort of political points.

[7:36] What I find interesting is that your actions have actually shown how dysfunctionally you're a side of the aisle is that you are out of touch with the people of Wisconsin.

[7:47] At a time when Wisconsinites are pleading for meaningful help with real challenges, rising

[7:54] property taxes, increasing medication costs, skyrocket, high grocery bills, gasoline and

[8:02] rent rental prices, seriously at this moment in time, we should be focused on delivering

[8:07] real solutions and results to health families during these difficult times.

[8:13] Tax payer dollars should not be used to chase unfounded claims or manufacture controversy

[8:19] in hopes to help one political party over the other.

[8:23] I mean, come on, we all know that Attorney General Josh Call and the Wisconsin Department

[8:28] of Justice are doing the work it has tasked to do and force our Wisconsin laws and protect

[8:34] our state.

[8:35] That includes safeguarding our air, land, and water, which are fundamental to the health,

[8:40] economy and identity of Wisconsin, and that means holding business owners accountable

[8:45] that think that they can play by different set of rules than others because of their

[8:50] money or status.

[8:51] And that really sounds familiar to what we're seeing at the federal level, how the government

[8:56] is being used by those in power to help to keep power rather than actually working for the

[9:01] people who elected them.

[9:04] So, what I've seen after hours of multiple hearings, testimonies, and now this, however many

[9:11] pays report that you never even bothered to consult with me or my colleague, Senator

[9:17] Habisina Kenabout, senseless countless hours of time and resources have been wasted and

[9:24] no credible evidence presented that justifies the devoted attention to this effort.

[9:30] And really, I was wondering why, during our legislative session in the Senate, we met so

[9:38] few times.

[9:39] But now I see that the majority party has been keeping themselves a little busy scrutinizing

[9:45] and asking the hard questions, but you didn't do it in the form of laws that you're supposed

[9:50] to.

[9:51] The reason we're sent here to legislature, to put forward laws that protect and help the

[9:56] of our state. And actually when a bill is proposed to fix this supposed issue, this committee

[10:03] was formed to look into crickets from your side of the aisle. No hearings, no exactly in that

[10:08] bill out of committee, no voting for it on the floor. I mean, even having this oversight committee

[10:15] just be the senate and not the assembly. Your allegations simply have not been justified.

[10:21] everyday Wisconsinites deserve clean water and a healthy environment. It matters to every single

[10:28] person in our state. And this requires investigating and holding accountable all who violate

[10:35] the laws this body put into place. And this is what A.G. Call and the Wisconsin DOJ and the

[10:43] are doing. And not letting a selected or chosen few get away with surpassing our regulations.

[10:51] Attorney General Josh Call and the Wisconsin Department of Justice are playing a critical role in supporting

[10:58] local prosecutors supporting our state departments, upholding our state laws and regulations, protecting consumers and the environment,

[11:07] and all while working with law enforcement to keep our communities safe.

[11:12] That work deserves our support and respect.

[11:15] And instead, this process has too often felt like a distraction

[11:19] from the work people want us to do to help with their everyday living expenses and lives.

[11:26] It's an exercise in this committee, a political theater, rather than meaningful oversight.

[11:31] And this oversight committee has been painted with a picture of colorful accusation and lies.

[11:39] So the people of Wisconsin expect better from us?

[11:42] They expect us to focus on what matters to them, to work in good faith with each other,

[11:47] and use our time and resources responsibly, not these constant partisan, special interest and political attacks.

[11:54] So let's do better for the residents of Wisconsin because they definitely deserve it.

[11:58] So, I look forward to the new year, the new session when this body has new leaders and a new party in place, so we can actually get things done for Wisconsinites instead of this political theater in Paris.

[12:12] You've made of our legislative system.

[12:14] I'm a shade of, I am ashamed of this committee and the work you put forward.

[12:20] Is there any discussion on the motion? Senator Jacques?

[12:26] Thank you, Madam Chair.

[12:29] With all the respect to my colleague, I would say that was a fine partisan speech.

[12:35] I just wrote down some notes while you were speaking.

[12:38] Obviously, oversight is very important.

[12:40] What we found out is that there were many times when the Attorney General was testifying,

[12:45] where he didn't know or was contradicting things that were previously put forward by my colleagues

[12:50] on the other side of the aisle, or by these, what we're hearing from the opposing party,

[13:00] and I think what we found is that responsive documents have not been produced for what we

[13:07] had requested. They basically only turned over things that were already turned over for

[13:10] other litigation. The actual specific request of this committee was pretty much disregarded,

[13:16] And so there's a whole lot of information that was missing, we weren't able to complete our oversight function with the proceedings that we've had to this point simply because we didn't have the information.

[13:30] But, you know, my colleagues on the other side of the aisle rejected the idea of pursuing oversight in the very first place.

[13:38] And, you know, I think there's certainly more that we could have done to talk about, perhaps, the misplaced priorities of the Attorney General in terms of why he was pursuing, you know, again, out-of-state influence as opposed to the actual bread and butter protecting Wisconsinites from violent crime.

[13:59] But this whole idea from the begin with, from my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, there's nothing to see here.

[14:06] I mean, you reach your conclusion before the oversight committee began its work.

[14:11] And, you know, there were, again, claims of these are bread and butter issues.

[14:15] Well, no, we actually got found out that there was much beyond that.

[14:20] In cases that supposedly they weren't involved in, they were.

[14:24] Again, I guess I would just say,

[14:31] I'll just leave it there, thank you, I'm sure.

[14:34] So, any other discussion on the motion?

[14:37] Senator Habit, thank you very much.

[14:41] I appreciate the value of oversight in the legislature, and I certainly was prepared to participate

[14:49] in a way that would be factual based.

[14:51] I just received this report.

[14:53] I didn't count the pages but we just received it late yesterday afternoon and it is so

[15:00] And I have to say that I quickly try to skim and review it, but we were not part of this oversight inquiry. And I just want to point out two main things that I was able to surmise from the overview and some of the other recommendations. And I just want it to be clear and I'd be very happy to hear a response from others on this inquiry.

[15:24] One is that one of the key recommendations had to do was efforts to prohibit the DOJ from using legal fellows from being paid by outside interests.

[15:39] And what we already know, and I brought this up several times over the course of those eight hours that we spent on this matter earlier, is that a bill was already introduced by Senator Wimberger

[15:53] and co-authored by Senator Tomchek on this committee that would have prohibited the DOJ or

[16:02] any others from doing exactly that.

[16:06] But it never received hearing, it never received the vote, it never left committee, and

[16:13] now it is being introduced as some recommendation of this committee, so that speaks volumes

[16:19] to me in terms of what is actually wanted to be done practically or with commitment or what

[16:26] is just being done for some type of messaging. And the same thing goes with the fact that

[16:33] this committee is proposing a report for oversight that is proposing legislation after Republican

[16:42] leadership has already adjourned sessions in both the assembly and the Senate. And unless

[16:48] there is an interest in calling us back for an extraordinary session again.

[16:54] What is this about?

[16:56] Both the legislation that is introduced and that effort it seems to be exactly what it is.

[17:03] This is just some kind of show political theater for special interests and that is not what

[17:11] I think we should be spending our time and resources on as a legislature.

[17:15] And finally, because I very much pay close attention during those eight hours, there was not one bit of evidence that I heard that suggested that Attorney General Josh Cal was using

[17:28] was doing anything other than using every lever at his ability, at his disposal to protect Wisconsin's land, air and water from special interests.

[17:41] So, that is what I am hearing from my constituents and folks across Wisconsin is they want their communities and their families to be safe and that is what they are expecting us as legislators to ensure and the Attorney General's office to deliver.

[17:57] So, that is my remarks on the report and recommendations that we received late yesterday.

[18:03] Is there any other discussion on the motion? Senator Wimbler.

[18:07] Thank you, ma'am chair.

[18:10] Yeah, it's my bill that we introduced, but it talks about employees and here's the

[18:16] thing is we don't know what exactly Josh call is doing what Cagoree's putting his people in.

[18:24] So when this issue first came to be, it was about making sure people were employees, but

[18:30] They're being categorized volunteer, yet being paid by third parties and having the powers of an employee.

[18:39] So the conflation of various categorizations is confusing and deliberately circumventing a system.

[18:52] If attorney generals, not just Josh call, but if attorney generals are permitted to do this,

[18:59] then the DOJ is for higher. It's for sale. And this is why.

[19:08] In Attorney General who doesn't like what the legislature has provided through the powers of the purse can just have any activist group.

[19:17] do some sort of an arrangement whereby the DOJ will circumvent the ethics rules in the rules of the state in order to get an activist working for that group.

[19:34] Now there might be a symbiotic relationship, but that's kind of the point.

[19:41] How many, how many, if you were to think about things the other way around, how many conservative groups,

[19:47] do you think the next conservative journey general would be able to use and enforce laws on?

[19:58] This is very concerning. Just like Zuckerbox, if you recall, the Zuckerbox was no longer

[20:06] just trying to donate and influence. But instead donating to the government itself to try and just

[20:14] manipulate. It is really a bribery when you boil it down. So I don't think that we ought

[20:26] to go down this road with our institutions. If we do, then what's going to happen is you

[20:34] will have the entire government for sale by private industry to place people to act with

[20:40] police powers of the state of Wisconsin onto Wisconsinites, and it circumvents the electoral

[20:46] process and the division of power that we have in our form of government.

[20:55] And as an afterthought,

[21:00] by the way, even though a trained general call was talking about

[21:05] this person was going to help the environment or whatever this

[21:10] say was going to help the environment. That's a bit of a pretext and I

[21:13] think that's a false statement by members on the committee. Josh

[21:18] Call said that at least he claimed this person did not actually work on

[21:24] those types of cases. There's more like a support staff generally speaking.

[21:30] So this was additional staff using a way to circumvent

[21:35] law, 19.45 paragraph 2 is pretty clear that anybody who's a public official shall not accept

[21:45] anything of benefit.

[21:49] And the hair splitting that went on was that a training general

[21:54] call facilitated the benefit to somebody by a clever

[22:02] maneuvering of contracts and ethics rules.

[22:07] I think there's two components to this committee.

[22:10] That's important.

[22:11] One is the discovering of whether there was a law violated,

[22:15] and two, if a law isn't violated, how is it being circumvented

[22:21] in order to afford for bad acts to occur.

[22:26] And I would consider this at least at minimum a bad act

[22:29] that has occurred.

[22:30] We don't want our justice system for sale, for hire by third party activist groups, because it will come to a point where the DOJ will have a limited amount of employees directly from the state and by the legislature, but then possibly double that amount of activist groups being declared as volunteers or fellows or what have you.

[22:57] And that road, I hope we don't go down and that legislation that comes out of this committee will prohibit it.

[23:05] Is there any other discussion on the motion? Senator Happick, she's going to come for the second time.

[23:10] Thank you.

[23:13] If there were those concerns, then Senate Bill 55, which you introduced, and which I've read down several times through, it's not a very long bill, it should have received a public hearing.

[23:26] You should have moved it through committee. We should have voted on it on the Senate floor. I would have voted on that and I wish I could have had that chance rather than to let it just sit there and go nowhere.

[23:42] And for us to then call us back for this purpose and to use it as a weapon.

[23:48] And that is really just my objective. I objection to that. Thank you.

[23:54] Any other discussion?

[23:56] Hearing none, the purple collar roll.

[24:00] Senator Felskowski.

[24:01] Senator Tom Chek.

[24:06] Senator Jacques.

[24:07] Senator Wimburger.

[24:09] Senator Habish Seneca.

[24:10] No.

[24:11] Senator Ratcliffe.

[24:12] No.

[24:13] The motion passes for two.

[24:15] I want to thank the members and staff for their diligent work on the special committee and the committee is adjourned.

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Senate Special Committee on Oversight of the Department of Justice

Transcript