[0:02] Recording, in progress.

[0:22] Mayor Padden, it is 5 o'clock when you're ready.

[0:26] Thank you. So the Spokane Valley City Council Special Council meeting of Tuesday, September 1st,

[0:31] 2026 is now called the order. If you will stand for the pledge.

[0:58] And if the clerk would like to call the roll please?

[1:00] Mayor Patent, Deputy Mayor Hattenberg, Councilmember Yaker, Councilmember Haley,

[1:07] Councilmember Kelly, President, Councilmember Wick, Councilmember Merkel, here.

[1:13] Thank you.

[1:15] And so we have the approval of agenda.

[1:17] We'll do a preview, agenda.

[1:20] A quick question.

[1:22] I've got a couple questions from the members of the public who didn't really understand why this is a special meeting as opposed to a regular council meeting.

[1:31] They were especially concerned about the time change and the fact that there's no public comments.

[1:35] I just wanted to see if you could comment on it a little bit.

[1:40] Well, this isn't the first time we've done this.

[1:42] So I'm not sure why they would be surprised.

[1:45] This is kind of a roundtable discussion.

[1:51] Yeah, workshop format and we've done it before, so

[2:02] we'll have a agenda, do we have the...

[2:03] All in favor?

[2:08] All right.

[2:10] All right.

[2:12] Opposed.

[2:16] All right.

[2:17] Our first non-action item is an admin report on the center-place discussion with John

[2:23] Patelie and Nicole Olmer.

[2:25] And before they jump into that, this has been an ongoing subject that the Council has had many

[2:34] discussions on over the years.

[2:36] And so part of having a workshop format is so that we, you, all, can have a more informal meeting

[2:47] tonight that you can sit around this table and have a discussion about very important topics.

[2:54] And for tonight, we have center place, the data first.

[2:58] And then we're going to talk about the active transportation plan.

[3:01] we've been talking about having a workshop format discussion

[3:04] for quite some time on the active transportation plan

[3:09] and then we'll get into the comprehensive plan,

[3:11] which you know, we've had multiple round table

[3:14] conversations on the comprehensive plan.

[3:18] But I did want to make a few comments

[3:19] about why are we talking about center place tonight.

[3:23] So this has been going on for quite a while

[3:27] is discussions about center place

[3:29] And there's, it's been a work in progress, a number of years ago we hired a consultant

[3:37] to do an evaluation for us.

[3:39] We've been implementing some of those key findings from the Johnson Study.

[3:44] We are working on coming forward with a fee discussion.

[3:49] And I think that will be discussed later tonight.

[3:52] But before we get to that point, we do have a new member on the Council, Council Member Kelly,

[3:58] and thought it would be a good opportunity to go back to provide you some background and

[4:06] history of where did center place come from, how did we end up owning it? What's the mission

[4:14] as originally conceived? And really what we'd like to see is a council discussion on what

[4:21] your viewpoint of center place is we want you to have a discussion about what's valuable

[4:29] for this particular property because then it'll help us moving forward on the fee analysis

[4:37] and that compares and bringing it forward and we do have a slide about what does the council

[4:43] see this as? Is there a profit center? Is there a community center? Is it? What is it? So that's what

[4:48] We're hoping to have tonight and we'll turn it over to John and Nicole, who do an excellent job with very little resources of keeping this thing open and it's open.

[5:00] Open quite a bit every day for many, many hours and more of way more than city hall. So it's a very big challenge for staff to keep this event center operational, but also in the excellent condition that it's in. And a lot of that is thanks to the city council for supporting a lot of the capital increases over the years, or a capital allocations over the years to replace the carpet.

[5:30] replace the flooring to keep it with fresh paint.

[5:34] The video wall from a number of years ago.

[5:38] This particular year maybe you can give us an update,

[5:41] it's on point on the sound system going in.

[5:43] I know we hope to get that for the state of the city,

[5:46] but we're really improving this to be more desirable

[5:52] from whoever may want a book events there.

[5:55] So with that, I'll shut up and turn it over to John and the coal

[5:59] and let you provide the background for what this facility is.

[6:03] All right, thanks very much, John.

[6:05] Good evening, Council Mayor.

[6:06] John Battelle, Partial Recreation Director,

[6:08] and I'm thrilled to have Nicole Olmer with me today,

[6:11] and Nicole is our center-place court.

[6:14] And looking forward to walking through a presentation,

[6:17] and then an opportunity for Council discussion.

[6:20] So just an overview, we'll talk a little bit

[6:23] about the history of center-place.

[6:25] What is center place?

[6:28] How was the original voter approved financing?

[6:33] What is the current center place activities

[6:35] that we have going on there today?

[6:38] As John mentioned, we completed the Johnson

[6:41] study a couple of years ago.

[6:42] So just single slide reminder of some of the takeaways

[6:45] and then an update on where we are implementing some

[6:48] of those recommendations.

[6:50] Most of you will remember we had a discussion

[6:52] April a year ago about that.

[6:54] and we've been carrying out some of that work and then we'll tee it up for a discussion.

[6:58] So, with that we'll get started.

[7:02] So, a little bit of history, although back in 1996,

[7:06] a nonprofit organization formed in the community, this was about six years prior to the

[7:12] Valley incorporating. So, the community-based nonprofit organization, Miraboo Point, Inc.

[7:19] operated to spearhead planning and fundraising and development of the Mirbu Point multi use campus in

[7:25] Spoken Valley. So this is before the city was an entity on Spoken County was the jurisdiction

[7:33] here in this area. The nonprofit envisioned a multi use community hub that would combine public

[7:39] recreation, education, trails and cultural events at the former site of the walk in the wild zoo.

[7:46] So some of you might remember the walk in the wild zoo.

[7:49] The screw held a series of public meetings.

[7:51] They met with local businesses

[7:52] to really discuss and vet what type of facility

[7:55] was needed out in the valley area.

[7:58] And so Inland Empire, paper company was the land owner,

[8:01] and they donated over 50 acres of land

[8:03] for what would become today's Mirabu Point Park.

[8:07] The nonprofit partnered with Spooking County

[8:10] and a visit to put in the early infrastructure

[8:12] that included roads and utilities.

[8:15] And then planning for center place, which was just part of the master plan for this larger area, occurred in the early 2000s under the nonprofit.

[8:24] And the construction was finalized by the city's book in Valley after incorporation.

[8:30] So in May of 2002, there was a county-wide bond measure that actually included three projects.

[8:38] So part of it was money for the arena downtown,

[8:41] but then two projects out in the valley area,

[8:44] I think help drive countywide support.

[8:47] So one was for improvements that the fairgrounds

[8:50] and the other was for center place.

[8:53] So that bond measure was approved by the voters,

[8:55] and it included a $7 million allocation

[8:59] for the center place project.

[9:02] So again, the city kind of inherited the project

[9:04] from Miribu Point non-profit

[9:07] that had spent the years planning and raising money to build centerplace.

[9:12] Early in the city's history, this spoken Valley City Council approved moving forward with the centerplace project in August of 2003.

[9:21] So at that time, the plan called for pretty much what you see there today, a three-winged center,

[9:26] to house a two-story senior center, a 400-person capacity-grade room, and a conference center with classrooms and high-tech lecture hall.

[9:35] The estimated cost of the project was approximately $10 million with $7 million of that paid for

[9:42] from the proceeds of those voter approved bonds, and then $3 million paid with grant funds

[9:47] and private donations that have been raised, and they were used primarily for the senior

[9:52] center portion of the project.

[9:54] Interesting I was going through the council meeting materials, and they show at the time.

[10:00] And part of that presentation that night did advise council to expect an operating cost of about $400,000 a year for the center.

[10:11] So a little bit about the bonds. Finance was very helpful in digging up this information and confirming so we can have a snapshot of where we are today.

[10:19] So the original bond paper work, this is dated from October 29th in 2003, this is the city

[10:27] issued general obligation bonds to raise the money for that had been approved by the

[10:33] voters.

[10:33] So the purpose as described in there was to construct a regional community center in the

[10:38] city and also construct and install various road improvements.

[10:42] So the description of the Center Police project was a new regional and community center

[10:47] that would have a large regional meeting conference room and for a variety of community and cultural events.

[10:54] And then, specifically, reference that the center will also have a senior citizen center, which will be largely paid for with funds other than the proceeds of the bonds.

[11:04] So, as mentioned, there was about $7 million for center place, another approximately 2.5 for road and street improvements.

[11:11] So a total of about $9.5 million in bonds were issued at that time.

[11:17] Currently there's $2 million, $145,000 outstanding on the bonds.

[11:23] The final payment is scheduled to occur in 233.

[11:28] And then just a note, through an interlocal agreement with the Public Facilities District,

[11:32] the PFD actually provides a money to the city to make the annual payments each year.

[11:41] You have a question?

[11:42] Yeah, if I use that, a couple of quick questions.

[11:44] So first, I know that we've refinances.

[11:46] Do you know what the current interest rate in these bonds are?

[11:49] Roughly?

[11:49] Chelsea, do you know?

[11:52] That's Chelsea R Finance Director to come up.

[11:55] All right, I'm not off the top of my head,

[11:57] but if you give me a few minutes, I can look

[11:59] in our financial statements and find that.

[12:01] OK, that'd be great.

[12:02] And then I guess my other question is,

[12:04] does the PFD paying for both parts, both uses?

[12:08] I mean, so the entire amount of the bonds?

[12:10] No, no, we, so the road bonds,

[12:13] That portion is paid off, and that was paid for through REAT funds, real estate exercise tax.

[12:20] Okay, so there was issued somehow separately, so that part was retired?

[12:26] Yes, so the way that the issuances were matured as they matured,

[12:30] somewhere allocated for the roads and some of the rest were allocated for the facility.

[12:34] Thank you.

[12:36] Thank you, Chelsea.

[12:37] And as Chelsea's looking up the actual interest rate, it was during the time when the interest rates were very, very low.

[12:46] So I think that's what made it attractive from, I can't remember if Mark Alhum was the finance director at the time or the city manager, it doesn't, I can't place it.

[12:56] I believe he transitioned during that transition during that period.

[13:00] Yeah. So that was something he led you

[13:06] for the question.

[13:09] So now I'd like to talk about center-place uses that occur over there.

[13:15] So we'll talk a little bit about the senior center as that's baked into the building and the original project.

[13:22] Then Nicole will talk about our business events and other rentals.

[13:25] I'll talk about various city uses that take place in there.

[13:29] And then there's a few special agreements and contracts that will review as well

[13:33] that relate to uses in the facility.

[13:36] So, the Spoken Valley Senior Center is actually operated by the Spoken Valley Senior Citizen

[13:42] Association.

[13:43] So, that's an independent non-profit, and the city has an MOU with the Senior Citizen Association.

[13:50] That was first executed in September of 2005 when the facility opened.

[13:54] It was updated in 2016.

[13:57] Essentially, the MOU is fairly straightforward.

[13:59] It provides use of the Senior Wing to the Senior Citizen Association Monday through Friday.

[14:04] from 8 to 4 p.m. Important to note is the city receives no revenue from this use or the

[14:11] agreement. So the senior citizen association can charge a yearly membership fee. They do

[14:17] offer a membership. Although membership is not required to participate in activities at the

[14:22] senior center or go to the senior center. So they use that to help with their own budgeting and

[14:27] fundraising and some buy-in, but again it's not required to pay to take advantage of the

[14:34] So currently, the Association has over 600 paying members.

[14:39] The Senior Center programs right now, I believe,

[14:42] 39 different activities throughout the week.

[14:45] These include things such as billiards, table tennis,

[14:48] bingo, there's a variety of card games,

[14:51] line-dancing, and more.

[14:54] SVSCA provides space for exercise classes

[14:57] that are put on by SCC and then finally.

[15:00] Very important, meals on wheels is in the building every day from 11 to 12, 30, and they operate

[15:06] out of the fireside lounge, the silver cafe, and so folks are able to come in and get meals

[15:12] there during the day.

[15:17] And JBI do have an answer, so it's approximately 3.5 percent.

[15:21] They range depending on which maturity, but that's the average.

[15:27] 1.5 percent?

[15:28] Thanks, Chelsea.

[15:31] Okay, so for our business uses and other rentals, we track these into

[15:36] So the following nine categories, just for tracking purposes, so when event comes in, it usually

[15:42] fits into one or another of these categories, and I'm going to turn it over to Nicole

[15:46] to tell us a little bit more about each one.

[15:50] All right, so exactly like John said, we take our events and we categorize them for a reporting.

[15:57] And first of all, we have community events.

[16:00] So community events can be anything from a belly fast, it could be open to the public,

[16:04] free to the public, or it could also be a ticketed event,

[16:09] like a holistic festival that we have annually.

[16:11] So anything that the public can attend,

[16:13] whether free or ticketed is categorized as a community event.

[16:17] We have business events, which are all day multi-use,

[16:21] could be multi-day trainings, conferences.

[16:24] So if they're here all day, whether they're having a meal

[16:26] or just a meeting, we categorize them in that spot there.

[16:31] And then private parties, those are our birthday parties,

[16:33] graduations, anniversary parties, holiday parties, baby showers. Those will be categorized

[16:40] there. Our banquet events are any group that's coming in for a shorter amount of time,

[16:46] just for a meal period. So if they're coming in for a dinner event and they're only here during

[16:51] that time, we'll put them in a banquet category. Fundraisers are exactly that, anything that's coming

[16:57] into race funds for a local school booster club,

[17:02] nonprofit organization or another community partner.

[17:06] We have dances, we do host multiple proms every year

[17:10] for our local high schools.

[17:12] We also have some churches that are used

[17:14] to dances that are facility as well, weddings

[17:17] that can be anything from a 40-person wedding

[17:21] to 350 to even 600-person wedding out on the west lawn.

[17:26] we have ceremonies and receptions.

[17:30] We also have worship, so that category are church services,

[17:34] so we do have a lot of churches that kind of start at centerplace.

[17:37] If they're growing or they're looking for a permanent location,

[17:41] we've had church services that have been with us for six months to a year,

[17:46] and then they grow, or sometimes they have a special service

[17:49] where they'll come use our facility for a larger group around a holiday.

[17:53] And then we also have a lot of memorials.

[17:56] We are in extremely accommodating venue for memorials

[17:59] because we can accommodate larger groups,

[18:01] which is kind of frayer to find in the valley.

[18:04] So we do hold a lot of memorials in the facility

[18:07] and then recreation activities,

[18:10] which John will get to a little bit more,

[18:12] but those are our decamps, our adult dance,

[18:15] therapeutic recreation, bread making,

[18:18] and other seasonal classes as well.

[18:23] So with those events,

[18:24] we have a lot of repeat customers that come to us multiple times a year, so we have we are

[18:32] remote service center for the elections office, so anytime there's elections going on they will

[18:38] set up kind of a remote office in our facility and so valley members that don't want to drive

[18:44] downtown can come in and get a new envelope, can register and can get services at center place.

[18:49] We have Spoken Valley High Schools, Proms, Fundraising Events that come back every year.

[18:56] Spoken Valley Fire Department has testing with us, graduation celebrations and award ceremonies as well.

[19:03] We watchers this with us twice a week, so every Monday and Friday I believe.

[19:08] We have a local hospital that has a new higher orientation every other week on Mondays.

[19:14] We have the holistic festival that comes twice a week, which is open to the public, but tick it in.

[19:19] or twice a start, I apologize twice a year,

[19:22] they come in the spring and in the fall.

[19:25] And then we have an event pretty princess parties

[19:27] that comes annually, that's a ticket event,

[19:29] but open to the public, really fun for families

[19:32] to attend K-12 home school testing.

[19:35] So we're a home school testing site.

[19:37] So Washington State will bring in all their laptops

[19:40] and we'll have all the families coming in and testing.

[19:43] They're here about two weeks twice a year.

[19:45] And then we also have other nonprofit fundraising events that come back every year with us.

[19:53] Spoken Valley business holiday parties, so we have a lot of holiday parties that come in celebrated centerplace.

[20:00] And then other local business trainings as well.

[20:02] And I just want to clarify that all of these uses are examples of paid rentals, which all of

[20:09] these groups pay the fees that are in our master fee schedule for these,

[20:15] including the

[20:16] spoken ballet elections office, spoken county elections office.

[20:22] Okay, so then I'll talk about some

[20:24] of the city uses that also occur at center place for one that's the location for the parks

[20:30] Recreation Department offices. So through the Parks Department, we provide city services

[20:35] where open Monday through Friday from 8 to 5 p.m. And we operate out of the facility.

[20:42] As Nicole alluded to, there's also recreation programming that takes place in the building.

[20:47] So you guys enjoy a presentation each year from Kendall about our various offerings.

[20:52] Summer gate campus very popular. We also have some adult dance classes that are popular and other offerings.

[20:58] those take place in center place.

[21:01] We don't charge ourselves for that, but at the same time,

[21:03] we don't pay to be able to put on those programs

[21:07] at an alternate location.

[21:10] City meetings, so we might have open houses,

[21:13] whether there's a comprehensive plan, open house needed,

[21:16] or the planning commission might need a meeting,

[21:20] department trainings, regional government meetings,

[21:23] where the city is participating,

[21:24] So, you might have been at a Council of Governments event there at Center Place, we're able to host those.

[21:31] And then we're also a backup space for City Hall.

[21:34] Sure, most of you will remember holding Council meetings in the Great Room for better than a year, maybe more than a year.

[21:40] We also have some network redundancy over there at Center Place for the City.

[21:45] And then, of course, the facility is incorporated into our emergency response plan.

[21:50] So there's a variety of cities that benefit from having that facility.

[21:57] And then I mentioned that there are a few special agreements in contracts.

[22:00] So these are kind of one-offs, but Valley Fest is an example of a community event.

[22:05] Many of the community events pay to rent center place and hold their events there.

[22:10] Valley Fest we have a unique agreement between the city and Valley Fest that was put in place several years ago.

[22:17] And so Valley Fest enjoys the benefit of holding planning meetings at the facility.

[22:23] It's a packet pick-up location for the annual cycle celebration, which is a large bicycle event out in the community.

[22:30] And then of course for the Valley Fest weekend itself, there's use of center place as well as Mayor Boop Point Park.

[22:36] And that place is pretty much filled up.

[22:39] It's also an event space for them to hold one fundraising event each year.

[22:43] And so an exchange for providing the community event that the city's desired does are the benefits to Valley Fest and that agreement.

[22:51] There's a second standalone agreement, which is with the Spoken Valley Arts Council.

[22:56] And I know many of you are familiar with the art donations that the city has received and sculptures around town.

[23:01] We do have an agreement with the Arts Council, where they have waived rental for a board meeting once per month, as well as for one fundraising event per year, similar to Valley Fest.

[23:12] And then they also use the center place front lobby and fill those with art.

[23:18] So it's very nice when you come into center place.

[23:20] There are four art cases.

[23:22] If you are there frequently enough, you'll notice that the inventory changes four times a year.

[23:27] And that is provided by the Arts Council and part of that agreement.

[23:31] And then finally the Spoken Valley Chamber of Commerce also has a contract with the economic development department.

[23:37] And through that contract, they have the opportunity to put on eight events per year without paying the rental fee.

[23:44] And those are events that are generally related to economic development and furthering our city objectives.

[23:51] Also, the state of the city event takes place in center place, and that's the chambers heavily involved in that event.

[23:59] And that's so separate from those special agreements. There is at least a waiver process.

[24:03] So I mentioned that there might be a government use that also relates to city business, but

[24:08] we don't just do that in a vacuum.

[24:11] We have a paper process, and so there's a special request form that the applicant will fill

[24:16] out.

[24:17] So if there's a request to use center place for no fee, we have the applicant work with

[24:22] their staff, just like they would, with any other organizer to plan their event, and then fill

[24:27] out and submit a request form so that we can review that, and it's approved document

[24:32] that and include that in the paperwork. Important to note anyone who does receive a rental waiver

[24:38] if they want to work with the caterer or have food, there's no waiver for that. And so typically

[24:43] those groups will enjoy free use of a rental space, but there's still revenue to the city and

[24:50] the caterer if they choose to have food. So, did you have anything you wanted to add about the rental

[24:55] Okay.

[25:00] Okay, so really interesting here, I think we talked about the categories that we try to break all of our activity into.

[25:07] And so this is a pie chart that would just encapsulate all the activities that occur, whether it's a city event or or not.

[25:14] And so you can see that really about half of our overall activity fits into that business meeting, seminar conference type category, a little bit less than a quarter recreation activities.

[25:27] and then all the others filling up the rest of the pie.

[25:30] So over 75% of the activity is a variety of those different types of events.

[25:37] Councilmember Merkel, do you have a question?

[25:39] Just really quick to the city events fall under the community event label.

[25:43] No, so not necessarily.

[25:45] So a city event would depending on what it is.

[25:48] It would be in that recreation category, for example,

[25:51] but it would be business meeting seminar as well.

[25:55] Some of the city events, if you consider, for example, value fest with that unique agreement to be a community event, that's where it would fit.

[26:02] So as I mentioned, whether these are revenue producing events or that very small portion of events that for whatever reason we don't collect a fee, there's simply all rolled up in this pie to paint a picture of overall activity at the center.

[26:19] So what I think is really interesting here to cold it a great job of putting together some

[26:23] information.

[26:24] We've looked at the types of events and here we're kind of looking at the impact by event

[26:29] types.

[26:29] So the column on the left would just be basically the information seen on the previous slide

[26:34] in the pie chart.

[26:35] So a number of reservations, the amount of the activity.

[26:39] And you can see that beatings in seminar category comprising about half of it.

[26:43] The second column, Total Revenue, shows us which of these event categories contribute how much to the Total Revenue that we bring in each year.

[26:55] What's interesting is you can see, for example, that while weddings may be comprised 5% of the overall reservations, they contribute 17% of the Total Revenue.

[27:05] are there a higher revenue generating type of event.

[27:09] And that's really what that middle column, the column 3 is about, is how much revenue

[27:15] does an individual event generate compared to other events in scattergories.

[27:20] You can see that weddings and fundraisers are really our highest revenue generating types of

[27:26] events while meetings and seminars, because we have so much activity there, they contribute

[27:31] the line share of the overall revenue, but they're not as a high-egenerator revenue on a case-by-case basis.

[27:39] Attendees, so that's just basically how many people are in centerplace by each category, and then finally,

[27:45] out-of-town attendees, so we do it. We make an effort to try to track

[27:48] working with each event organizer, how many people are visiting from out-of-town, and so you can see, for example,

[27:54] a few stick-out weddings and the community events are far and away the biggest in terms of bringing

[28:01] at a town visitors to center place. So, a couple different ways to look at that activity there.

[28:10] Okay, and then finally, some recent highlights in terms of our activity at center place.

[28:17] In 2025, the Great Room hosted 208 events and looking at the available days in the year,

[28:25] taking up for holidays and about two weeks that we have to schedule. We have to block out the room

[28:30] for maintenance or improvements.

[28:32] That's about 61% of the available great room capacity

[28:36] on the calendar.

[28:38] We increased that this year, we already

[28:40] have had 221 reservations either contracted or already done

[28:45] with potentially more before the end of the year.

[28:48] So that's up to about 65% of that capacity.

[28:51] And then we have quite a few reservations booked

[28:54] in advance for 2027 already.

[28:55] I think 120 events are already booked for pre booked for 2027.

[29:00] Looking at that out of town travel, last year in 2025,

[29:05] a center-based reservation brought in an estimated 2,000 out of town guests.

[29:10] Year to date from January through July so far,

[29:13] we've already surpassed that amount,

[29:15] we've estimated to be a little over 2,000 already.

[29:19] And then finally, weddings in 2025, we hosted 40 weddings.

[29:23] that was up a little bit from historical years, but working from the Johnson Study recommendations

[29:29] leaning in on simplifying our pricing to call came up with some wedding packages that

[29:34] are built out of the component pieces in the fee schedule, and then we worked with economic

[29:38] development and our marketing budget to do a photo shoot and publish all that on the new

[29:44] website. And that effort has launched us to 60 weddings already for this year with potentially

[29:50] some more to go. So, and as we mentioned, those are big revenue generators and they're also generators of

[29:56] out of town gas. So that's been a nice trend. Yeah, cancel them every year.

[30:00] You have a question? Thank you, so you were talking about, and I believe you said 61% in the great room is booked. Do you have a listing of where we also have opportunity in all the other rooms and where we could maybe grow that?

[30:14] Yeah, I don't have that available with me today, but that's certainly something that we can bring back and something we want to dive in a little deeper with you guys when we talk about potential fee adjustments and our approach moving forward.

[30:26] So yeah, you bad, but you have a follow up, you do go ahead.

[30:32] And then you're talking about revenue generating events such as weddings, is there

[30:36] something that we could do more of to like make a bride's room out of that that

[30:42] we could set up for them that would encourage more people to come if they were to

[30:48] be able to use more of that space?

[30:50] Yeah, I'll let Nicole describe a little bit, but Nicole has done some wonderful

[30:54] improvements just like that. In fact, taking advantage of some underutilized spaces to make

[30:59] sure that there's a bridal reddy room, a groom's reddy room. The upstairs fireside

[31:04] lounges and alternative venue for weddings, but some improvements can certainly help us.

[31:09] But do you want to talk about some of what you've done there?

[31:12] Absolutely. So we did include a lot of our outdoor spaces as well. So the North Metto location,

[31:18] I think in 2023 we started utilizing that for ceremonies that really increased our bride

[31:24] that wanted to come have an event with us, we did convert three spaces into a more appealing

[31:31] ready rooms, both bridle and groom, and then we do have a flex space upstairs that can

[31:37] be utilized as well for a groom's ready room so that we have two available to them. We also

[31:43] attend wedding shows every January, we're actually hosting one in November, and so anything I

[31:51] for those wedding shows, I like to utilize for couples to have to offer, so we have a photo

[31:59] backdrop, we have arborers, we have a lot of different decor that can enhance their rental,

[32:04] and so those are built into those packages and have been very appealing to the brides that

[32:09] are wanting to rip with us.

[32:12] Yeah.

[32:12] You have a question?

[32:13] Yeah, I do, actually.

[32:14] Thank you.

[32:16] So as far as percent utilization, I mean, you have like the great room where whatever

[32:21] do we have a number of what percentage of the total utilizeable room and that doesn't count

[32:28] the senior center but of the other stuff is actually we're actually using in 24 we used in 25

[32:35] and where we're on pace for 26. Well we'd have to look at that for 25 and 26 but if you look

[32:41] in the Johnson Study there are some detailed descriptions of that one of the interesting nuances

[32:46] of the facility, however, is that we can be at capacity without necessarily using all of the

[32:54] rooms.

[32:55] We can have an event that books the center with the intent to use all the rooms, for example,

[32:59] like a conference where maybe there's, there are breakout sessions in all of the classrooms.

[33:04] But if Nicole has the great room booked and 600 people in the building and the senior centers

[33:09] going and maybe one other event, there's really no room to bring in others.

[33:13] And so sometimes rooms are empty.

[33:16] And if you look at that data throughout the year,

[33:18] you might look like we're not taking advantage of a room,

[33:22] but it's really because we're already at capacity.

[33:24] So there are some physical limitations

[33:26] that prevent us from being able to offer every room every day.

[33:31] A big one of them is parking, frankly.

[33:34] So, you know, can't remember a miracle?

[33:38] Thanks.

[33:39] Can we go back very quickly to the slide

[33:41] where you had all the regulars?

[33:42] I'm just trying to understand some of these numbers because I remember

[33:45] one or two back.

[33:47] Two back, I think.

[33:48] This one or, nope.

[33:50] One more.

[33:51] One more back.

[33:54] One more.

[33:56] One more.

[33:58] That's the one recurring rental.

[34:00] recurring rental together.

[34:01] Yeah, because some of these are like twice weekly.

[34:04] So that would be like 100 events a year.

[34:08] So, is that when we said 200 and 6, is out of that 206, 100 of them, these twice-weekly

[34:19] way watching.

[34:19] No.

[34:20] That's where we were highlighting the great room.

[34:23] So a lot of these are taking place in our large classrooms, small classrooms, or other

[34:27] spaces in the building.

[34:29] Gotcha.

[34:29] So these aren't necessarily all a great room activities.

[34:34] That's my vocabulary.

[34:36] Yes.

[34:36] I was curious, when you say out of town visitors, does this mean people from Spokane or

[34:42] these people who most likely spent the night here?

[34:47] So more likely, from out of town it would be spending the night and you found something

[34:52] interesting in our survey responses we were talking about today.

[34:56] Correct.

[34:56] Yeah, so we have a couple of different ways that we track that through our booking.

[35:00] We have an application and on that application we have them fill out the percentage of out of town attendees. So that would be someone that would need a hotel room or would need to stay with a friend or something like that, depending on what they choose.

[35:13] And so we truck that and then as well as our surveys, we have tracked.

[35:19] If they're shopping in the valley or staying in the valley. And so with our surveys that we have, let me just pull this up for you.

[35:30] So, out of our 163 responses, we had 26% say that they did need overnight accommodations, and then we also asked them where did their attendees stay out of those.

[35:45] And so, we have about 65 to 72% said that they stayed in a local smoking belly hotel.

[35:54] And do you have a number of nights that that may have resulted in from that survey?

[36:01] We don't have that information, but I would be interested if our hotel operators might

[36:05] be able to inform us, or be aware of center place guests who are there guests in their hotel.

[36:11] Okay, but just to clarify, so when we're looking at these numbers and you say out of town,

[36:15] that's typically going to be someone who need accommodations.

[36:18] Right.

[36:18] Thank you.

[36:20] Thanks for the question.

[36:21] And yeah, not from Spokane, not from the region.

[36:26] Okay, all right.

[36:28] And so just a reminder, like we talked about about a year ago,

[36:33] we had the Johnson study.

[36:35] We had a nice discussion with Council

[36:37] and went through some of the details of that.

[36:40] Major takeaways from that study included

[36:43] that they concluded that center plays operates both

[36:46] as a tourism and a community asset.

[36:48] They highlighted the community uses play a key role in community identity when addressing

[36:55] the question about tourism related events.

[36:58] They did say that size is a bit of a limitation there at center place.

[37:03] We have seen a number of events outgrow our facility as they become larger.

[37:08] So there's a physical limitation.

[37:10] I think they referenced a recommendation to consider capital improvements over time and investment

[37:17] in a larger facility or some other characteristics could help with that.

[37:21] For example, we don't really have any back-of-house support space that really aren't

[37:25] hallways to help service events.

[37:27] So for example, if we have the caterer of servicing a large event in the

[37:31] great room and this gets a little bit to your question there.

[37:34] And somebody's upstairs in a large classroom and they want catering at the same

[37:38] time.

[37:39] There's no hallway or alternate way for the caterer to get the food to them.

[37:42] So there are some physical characteristics of the facility

[37:45] that provides some limitations.

[37:48] And then finally, that 2023 saw record-breaking attendance

[37:52] and revenue with net operating losses at an eight-year low.

[37:56] I do know that we were just under 600,000, I think,

[37:59] in revenue that year in 2023.

[38:01] And we did exceed that 600 mark in 2024,

[38:05] and then increased it again in 2025.

[38:07] So, and then we identified several strategic recommendations out of that Johnson study, so on the left we have things that are ongoing, coordinating the economic development, updating our marketing materials.

[38:21] We talked about that with the wedding improvements.

[38:26] Now here we find ourselves in the middle column, the near term, so two recommendations are, since we last met, have already been accomplished.

[38:34] So one of those was rolling out a new reservation platform that was more tailored and appropriate

[38:41] and a helpful for us to follow up with customers and track leads and we're operating with

[38:46] that new platform and then updating the catering contract and you guys will all recall that we have

[38:51] a new caterer and a new catering agreement with more favorable rates for the city, so we're seeing

[38:56] that function very well. We've also integrated the booking process, so it's less confusing

[39:02] for the customer, so the catering and the event rental is all paid to the city,

[39:08] invoice through our office, and then we pass on those revenues to our contractor.

[39:14] And then the next strong recommendations were to take a look at our rates rates.

[39:18] It's center place haven't really been updated since 2008.

[39:21] There have been incidental changes as we brought new services online,

[39:25] or had new facilities, for example, the great lawn, or the west lawn, excuse me, great lawn.

[39:31] with new and so we have rental rates for that and some other minor changes, but we haven't taken a look at rates for some time.

[39:39] And we've engaged a contractor to do that rate study, so we'll be coming back with that information soon.

[39:47] Part of the Johnson Study recommendations were also making staffing adjustments that essentially center place for the amount of activity appear to them to be understaffed.

[39:58] So it's a big lift for us to get the work done.

[40:00] So tied in with those rates would be discussions about right-sizing staffing. And then finally, based kind of on our philosophy and where council is in terms of what the objectives are for center place. We would want to formalize and implement some booking policies to help accomplish whatever the desired outcomes are from council. So that's where we find ourselves today. And that takes us to our discussion point where we really want to hear from you.

[40:30] what is the Council's vision for center place?

[40:33] There's a few prompts here, but I think this is intended

[40:35] to be an open discussion, and are there any other comments

[40:39] or thoughts from John or Eric before we turn it over?

[40:42] I would just say we don't need an answer tonight.

[40:45] We're looking for discussion to get you thinking

[40:49] as City Manager home and indicated at the beginning.

[40:53] This will help guide us as we analyze those rates

[40:57] and come back with rate options.

[40:59] and that rate discussion, and then is our Parks and Rec director, Batelli said, I can also help with the booking policy.

[41:09] Do we want to focus on tourism generation, so we get priority booking there, or do you want to focus on community, or what do you want?

[41:16] So it's really intended to be a starter for the discussion, and we are going to be coming back to discuss rates, discussion tonight certainly helps, but this isn't the last discussion.

[41:26] this is just a round table and so no right or wrong answers tonight.

[41:31] It's really just opening it up to you as we continue our work getting input from Council is

[41:37] very important.

[41:38] And before we turn it over, I just wanted to add one thing to that when we talk about future

[41:45] capital improvements to the building, one of the areas I'd like to try your attention

[41:50] to is the safety of the employees there as well.

[41:54] And so we have, as you know, implemented some measures of safety improvements to the city hall,

[42:03] part of the difficulty that we've known for a long time is, as you enter into the building,

[42:11] the way that the entry is configured, staff cannot see anybody as they command.

[42:17] And so there may need to be some improvements to that visibility for staff to know what's happening

[42:25] at any given time.

[42:27] And that area is actually really wide open.

[42:30] And so I think there's some concern there from our standpoint.

[42:34] We have work with staff over the last year, so to keep certain doors locked within the building.

[42:43] So we've gone through that, but I think there's some more conversations, some more ideas that need to be worked out through that, but I just want to introduce that subject to you all because it's something that we'll be working on in the near future as well.

[43:02] Okay, thoughts, Councilmember Yager.

[43:04] I just have a quick question. Can someone remind me what we lost on that last year in our budget?

[43:09] And we're going to come forward with kind of more of a historical, maybe over the last five or six years.

[43:16] We're working on that.

[43:18] I know we talked about being in the neighborhood of about $100,000 a lot.

[43:23] We're going to verify that.

[43:25] There may also be some capital expenditures in there that may increase that number a little bit,

[43:31] but I think we want to tie that down.

[43:33] We'll have a table for you when we bring back the rate pieces.

[43:38] And then we can talk a lot more about where we're out with it.

[43:42] Thank you.

[43:43] Which I would say is a great improvement.

[43:45] It's a very big improvement.

[43:47] I think, you know, typically if the original council was looking at a $400,000 loss.

[43:53] And that was kind of our, for many, many years, kind of our, you know, off the, off the cuff estimate.

[44:03] I think the staff has done a really good job over the last couple of years trying to

[44:08] increase the utilization rate of the building.

[44:11] And, you know, from that perspective, one thing that we didn't talk about that's in the Johnson

[44:16] study.

[44:17] And we'll make sure we send out copies of a link to all of you for that to refresher, your

[44:23] memory on that particular thing.

[44:26] But part of what was really analyzed in that was whether to keep it in-house or to look

[44:31] for a third-party management company.

[44:35] And the consultant came back and did not recommend a third party to manage the building because of the size of the facility and the cost associated with it.

[44:45] And that was something that how those those contracts are typically set up is that you pay them and so they'd never lose money.

[44:56] They're always paid for their managing.

[45:00] Management of the facility, and you may be able to work in profit sharing, depending on what,

[45:06] how well they do to encourage them to do better. But they just didn't recommend for this

[45:11] size facility that that was something we should look at. So I did want to say that's covered in the report,

[45:19] and we'll get that out to you. And if there's any questions on that piece, we could talk more later about it.

[45:26] Council Member Kelly. Yeah, well first off, I want to thank the staff for their work on this presentation.

[45:34] This is exactly the type of discussion that I was looking forward to when I got elected

[45:40] that we could sit down and share some ideas and visions for different things here in the city.

[45:45] So thank you for this opportunity. I also want to thank Mr. Lamb and Mr. Rattelli for

[45:50] I'm escorting me earlier today on a personal tour of center place, and so I was able to

[45:57] ask a lot of questions and get a lot of things answered then, so that's very helpful.

[46:01] One of the things I came away from that is I think that we should, for me, that center place

[46:08] will always be first a community center, something for the citizens here in the valley.

[46:13] I don't think that should stand in our way though of trying to make this a revenue-neutral

[46:19] operation, and so if there's an opportunity to figure out a way to basically be self-sustaining

[46:25] that we should pursue that, whether or not we have a realistic path to that goal kind of depends

[46:30] on some of the metrics that we've already asked about in terms of utilization, where are we in terms

[46:36] of its maximum reasonable uses, and how much what it would take to improve that.

[46:43] But I am curious, I noticed that it seems like some types of events do bring in more revenue

[46:52] than others, I don't know per capita basis.

[46:57] And so obviously those are the things that we should pursue.

[47:00] And as I understand, we have some very excellent staff over there that where many hats,

[47:04] including sales, but we don't have any full-time sales person.

[47:08] And so I suppose that might be something that we might need to look at.

[47:12] as we continue to look at the potential for the facility and as part of that we probably

[47:21] would want to increase our marketing to outside this region and encourage people to come in

[47:28] because that's going to have quite a bit of knock on effect and I know that for other projects that

[47:32] we've considered that that's been a big, you know, kind of a big consideration is how many people

[47:37] from outside the area that we can bring in.

[47:40] So just kind of sharing some thoughts from what I observed and maybe giving us a foundation

[47:45] to work off of in terms of a vision, I would envision a facility that's one resident revenue

[47:52] neutral to that has sort of a goal is saying, hey, we have all the events that we can hold

[48:01] here we should make sure that 20% just throughout a number remains community oriented.

[48:08] So free events continue to have the ability for different organizations to use it and to further

[48:15] the interests of the community and then maybe the other percent is our attempt to monetize

[48:20] the property and to pay for itself, including allowing the seniors to continue to use that

[48:27] for their various activities,

[48:28] which I understand are numerous and very well-attended.

[48:32] And then from that, we might, from all those events,

[48:35] we might also have a goal of saying,

[48:36] we'd like to attract maybe just again

[48:38] to throw out some number of 60% from outside the area,

[48:41] and 40% from within the area.

[48:45] And so that's just maybe some ideas to work with.

[48:49] I know that there's a lot of questions to be answered

[48:51] or whether or not we can achieve that,

[48:55] But there's also the opportunity, and I know that the council is aware of the opportunity

[49:00] to maybe partners in local businesses and the whole tellers to offer some package situations.

[49:07] And I don't know if that includes discounts from them or what have you, but something to

[49:11] attract people and make it more, again more attractive for them to come here.

[49:16] So those are my thoughts.

[49:19] I did have one thing that I was hoping maybe Nicole could address, and that is that I

[49:23] from asking questions. I got the impression that our rates at Centerplace are relatively

[49:28] on below market, but has also talked to individuals who have, you know, tried to utilize

[49:34] it and their impression was that maybe we were not as competitive as, say, with Meribu Park,

[49:39] the Meribu Park hotels, conference facilities, or something like that. So do we have a sense

[49:45] of where we stand in terms of that? We do have a fee study that we'll be bringing forward to share

[49:51] Within that study you do see that we are extremely below market things like Maribou they do have negotiation ability

[50:00] Please, this center place does not have this city own facility, so that might be where they see fluctuation

[50:05] of rates.

[50:06] So if you have overnight guest rooms, that might affect your room rental, as well as through

[50:11] in beverage needs, those also can decrease your room rental based on those uses.

[50:18] Thank you for that.

[50:18] And then just as a final thought, I know that some other jurisdictions use what we've recently

[50:27] created with this opportunity fund, and so that that's also maybe something that we can integrate

[50:32] into our overall vision to attract outside areas that we could, I guess we're like the

[50:37] better words subsidized, their attendance here, so that they can get a sense to just how great

[50:41] Spokane Valley is and that that would be useful for their future utilization of our facilities.

[50:48] That's member Merkel.

[50:50] Yeah, thanks. I agree with much of what Councilmember Kelly brought up.

[50:55] I also think that the facility should be rather neutral.

[51:00] For me, I still advocate that we seek an outside operator for that facility.

[51:07] I appreciate that in other circumstances, operators ask for deals as described by the city manager.

[51:16] But for my perspective, I think we should put out a solicitation and open solicitation to the community,

[51:20] asking to see if there's anybody who wants to operate the facility on a fixed fee basis.

[51:28] In other words, they pay us a fixed fee that we say this is the annual fee.

[51:32] And then they're fully in charge of rate setting and advertising and everything else.

[51:37] We just get our annual fee and we'll walk away and that covers our costs.

[51:41] They have the use of the facility.

[51:43] I would obviously want to continue with the senior center.

[51:46] that was part of the bond issue so that that wouldn't be negotiable, but I think that

[51:52] a private organization, I mean, you know, some examples were just given about why a private

[51:58] organization is more flexible about these kinds of things, they can negotiate rates, they

[52:02] can be open at hours that are beyond what the city might be able to be open to, you

[52:10] know, and I think that that would be a better utilization of the facility.

[52:16] Thank you.

[52:18] So I would agree with a lot of what Councilmember Kelly had said to include getting someone

[52:24] in marketing who's, that's their niche to do the job of pulling people into this community

[52:33] to be able to get maybe larger events, maybe someone who's on the road a little bit in

[52:46] what the hours are, what they could be if they, if it wasn't government rotten, if you will,

[52:51] you know, are they closed on, I don't know what the hours are or what they could be if we were to open

[52:57] those a little bit more for additional revenue. Just to answer your question about the hours,

[53:02] we are with the exception of some holidays, we're open all year long, seven days a week,

[53:08] approximately six a.m. to midnight, just depending on new schedules. Yeah, I don't think there's any room

[53:15] to increase that anymore.

[53:16] Yeah.

[53:17] Whether it's privately owned or publicly owned.

[53:20] It didn't have a chance to look it up.

[53:23] Sounds remember, Wick?

[53:26] So I agree in the part.

[53:29] I agree that it should be a community center in my mind.

[53:32] I feel like centerplace was always kind of envisioned.

[53:35] As a community center, I think we're doing a really good job.

[53:38] Doing that kind of that balance.

[53:39] So I feel like it's kind of a hybrid.

[53:41] Trying to bring in events where we can,

[53:43] but also not pricing our community out of being able to use the facility.

[53:48] I think they're all you've done a tremendous job of keeping it down to 100,000 or whatever.

[53:55] And I know that we call it a loss.

[53:58] It's not really a loss.

[54:00] It's the general funds allocation for these other things, right?

[54:05] It's important to us from a council perspective of my opinion of what we use it for.

[54:12] It's our disaster recovery center.

[54:14] It's our off-site city hall if anything happens.

[54:18] It's not only that, but it's the senior center.

[54:21] It's our recreation center.

[54:22] There's uses that we get in benefits that we get out of

[54:26] that we don't charge ourselves for that.

[54:30] Yes, and one hand, it's a loss, but it's technically

[54:33] it's what we pay ourselves to use that facility.

[54:37] I want to think about it or reframe that.

[54:40] It's not really a loss.

[54:42] It's not really an enterprise fund.

[54:43] It's what we pay to have those advantages that we try to recover as much as we can.

[54:49] But at the same time, there's value in those amenities that are going on there.

[54:55] And so whether it's a council government, whether it's a, I know the film.

[55:00] So board when I travel around the state, we've had those there, we've had string committee of elected officials, we've had, we get to show off a little bit to our fellow counterparts in other cities that don't have a facility like that, that gives them ability to come to spoken and valent kind of puts us a little higher in the stage for our region and state.

[55:21] And so I think those are all things that are valuable for us, that we don't really charge ourselves and we don't really, I don't really want to get us into the habit of, oh, well,

[55:29] need to start allocating money towards that and kind of putting it in the offset, it's just

[55:33] a part of the deal for center place and so I think there's a tremendous of value for that

[55:37] as well. And I didn't really think about it until we started this conversation around, you know,

[55:43] events are getting bigger. Our community is getting bigger. There are events that are now

[55:47] outgoing center place. Do we need to start thinking about that as a capital facilities plan of

[55:53] Is there a way to make it so that we can do a 300-person event or what is it that we need to do to continue to support our community and maybe enable us to do more things there?

[56:06] But as far as outside salesperson, I kind of feel like that's a double-edged sword. Yes, you get outside sales, but then you have more expense because you're bringing on our employees.

[56:15] and I feel like we're kind of getting a good netchist to where we're at right now with

[56:19] cost versus utilization, but it'll be in our snazzy utilization score, I know I don't feel

[56:27] like from my limited experience with renting the facility, I don't feel like we're really out

[56:32] of whack with some of the other options from a community perspective. Now whether it's a convention,

[56:37] maybe that's something different and hopefully that opportunity fund can help us with that

[56:41] somewhat, but from a community perspective, it's hard, like just putting my

[56:47] corners have on, probably not able to pay $50 a week to have a meeting

[56:51] there for a community meeting, but if you're a convention, that it's a little

[56:56] bit different. So how do we, how do we do both? How do we figure that hybrid

[57:00] mix out? It's my my desire, but what do you imagine? I just wanted to comment on

[57:06] and Councilmember Wix discussion there.

[57:10] We are going to get a lot into the details of the staffing, what staffing is happening

[57:16] right now, what have we had to do over the last couple years to keep that moving?

[57:22] It's very challenging from a staffing standpoint because of the hours.

[57:26] I mean, that's open a lot and so you're talking about multiple shifts of people you're

[57:32] talking about a lot of temporary limited term, seasonal folks.

[57:39] It's a variety of things for us city staffers that have been around for a while.

[57:46] One of the things that you'll have seen over the history is that there's a lot of children

[57:51] of the employees that end up working there for a little bit of time and then as they're in

[57:56] college or doing something else.

[57:58] So there's a bit of a family approach too, but we will get into that and a lot more details.

[58:05] As the next part of the discussion comes on once the fee study is completed, but when

[58:12] you talk about, I appreciate the comments on the Capitol piece, because that has been

[58:18] talked about over the years about maybe expanding the great room or expanding the footprint

[58:24] and somewhere another, but one thing I want to talk to the council about as well is the parking lot itself is a landscape architect's vision of, you know, a statement to their career, but from a standpoint of efficiency and honestly at this stage safety as well.

[58:46] and I know we need to talk about pruning and cleaning up a lot of that vegetation that's now

[58:52] 20 something years old that tends to block a lot of the sidewalks and that type of stuff,

[58:58] but that layout in the parking lot is horrible and maybe that's something at some point we'll have

[59:04] to look at as is reconfiguring the stormwater swales and the parking in a way to make a lot more

[59:13] capacity and I think the way it's all curved and it's beautiful,

[59:19] but it's not functioning very

[59:21] well. So that's something that holds us back as well as the parking limited parking out there.

[59:29] And so I just wanted to leave you with that. That's a whole other discussion we'll have to get into.

[59:34] That's a member, Haley. I thank you very much. Yeah, I agree with a lot of what councilmember

[59:40] and what our city manager just said, I would like to

[59:44] underline where we were before and where we are now

[59:48] is amazing. And so I appreciate all the hard work

[59:52] you guys had to put in to get here because it's great.

[59:56] However, I do think we should stick with the hybrid model.

[1:00:00] I think we should go with a private party. First of all, that you've got too many things that we need to use it for ourselves to make it profitable for somebody.

[1:00:11] And if I remember right, that was part of what they said too, is that it's not really a big enough venue for a private person to come in and make enough money to be interested in doing it.

[1:00:22] And again, I think you're doing a great job. So I know complaints there. You are so right that parking is terrible.

[1:00:30] And I have wondered since I first walked in there about that entryway, because you can sneak in there so easy, and it's dark, and there's an empty hallway, and so anything we can do to make that safer, I'm all for.

[1:00:44] And the other thing that I have said before, and I'd like to say again, if we're going to bring conventions in which I think we should, then it's size conventions, we're going to have to fix our sound system because it's terrible.

[1:00:56] I've been to so many fundraisers where you can't even tell what's going on because the

[1:01:02] sound system feeds back and there's echoes and it's I realized it's a big gym so I don't

[1:01:08] know if it's possible to fix it but if we can we should really look at that.

[1:01:13] I'm going to make it coming on then just ask John and where are you with the sound system

[1:01:18] because it actually recently completed the sound system improvements and seen some good new

[1:01:25] functionality.

[1:01:28] Correct.

[1:01:28] Yeah.

[1:01:28] So we have gotten all new equipment for the sound system, the speakers themselves are the

[1:01:33] same speakers.

[1:01:35] They've just been calibrated and adjusted.

[1:01:38] Chad can probably speak to that a lot more than I can.

[1:01:41] But we do.

[1:01:42] We did have a fundraising event recently that did struggle with their grouping loud and still

[1:01:47] being able to hear.

[1:01:49] So even though it has been completed we're still tweaking and working with the vendor to make

[1:01:53] sure that we get it where it needs to be.

[1:01:55] So that our events can enjoy the space and hear each other and raise more money for nonprofits

[1:02:00] in our community.

[1:02:02] But you're absolutely correct that the system has been terrible over the previous years.

[1:02:08] I don't remember much.

[1:02:08] Thank you.

[1:02:10] Oops, sorry.

[1:02:11] Yeah, just a quick question and then I have a comment.

[1:02:15] What times are staff available for booking questions?

[1:02:19] I appreciate that we've moved to an online system so can people fully book through the

[1:02:24] the online system without speaking to staff and then what times are staff available for those questions?

[1:02:30] I mean, we're open 8 to 5 with staff to be responsible for during business hours,

[1:02:35] but I'll let you talk a little bit more.

[1:02:36] People can book online, but there's really always that customer for this follow-up.

[1:02:40] Do you want to talk about that?

[1:02:41] Yeah, so we're still trying to roll out the center-place side of booking online.

[1:02:46] Our spaces are unique.

[1:02:48] Our set-up styles are unique, so we are wanting to make sure that we have the information out there

[1:02:53] to make a reservation successful online.

[1:02:55] So we still do have an application that is emailed

[1:02:58] and infillible form, and then we build that for them.

[1:03:01] So we are working through transitioning

[1:03:03] and getting that information on our website

[1:03:06] that they could submit the application online,

[1:03:09] and then it would go through approval process

[1:03:11] before it was fully booked.

[1:03:14] Gotcha.

[1:03:14] I do think that that's one of the challenges

[1:03:17] that people have is a lot of people are booking events

[1:03:20] at that six o'clock seven o'clock hour after work with private facilities and be nice if we could

[1:03:25] do something about that. In terms of the parking, we've kind of already established an idea over here

[1:03:33] at the cross course where we're busing people in from other parking lots just right around the corner

[1:03:38] is that STA park and ride that has something like 260 empty spots. Maybe we should consider just

[1:03:45] getting a bus and figuring out a way to transport people for a larger event.

[1:03:53] That's a bummerie, I guess.

[1:03:55] I can't remember how you had said the word Jim and it's what I actually had written down here too as well.

[1:04:00] And I'm wondering if we ever were to redo that floor in there if we would consider a different color because it does kind of come off as a basketball gym in the great room.

[1:04:12] something a little bit darker and more elegant, I don't know, or I don't know the carpet would

[1:04:16] be recommended, but if we were to ever do anything with that floor, I think that could

[1:04:22] just the difference in the look and feel of a different color would maybe be appreciated.

[1:04:32] Deputy Mayor. Thank you. I appreciate comments by everyone and I agree with almost all of them.

[1:04:37] I just have a fun story of it. Is Vingol still in Wednesdays? Is it Vingol's on Tuesday?

[1:04:43] Tuesday. So if somebody really wants to see how this senior citizen is feeling about their senior

[1:04:48] center, visit on Tuesday, Bingo, and I'll guarantee you there's the ladies that they

[1:04:53] were teasing me playing Bingo. It's like you don't touch your Bingo term, or else. And they're playing

[1:04:59] five, six guards.

[1:05:00] So I used to be challenged to play one, but I thought that was kind of cute.

[1:05:03] And I appreciate you guys going to be with Kelly Glitch, who the facility had given it.

[1:05:09] You didn't quite get to see the bingo. It was the afternoon.

[1:05:18] Anything else? Council member Kelly?

[1:05:21] Yes, I guess just to follow up, as I finally understand your numbers correctly, you said, about 26% of events spring in out of town attendees.

[1:05:29] And of that, you said about, let's call it 70% of those attendees are from out of town.

[1:05:37] So that means of all attendees to events.

[1:05:41] And are we talking, I guess I should back up and ask on your survey, first off,

[1:05:45] for these just events in the great room or with these all events.

[1:05:48] All events.

[1:05:49] And these were paying customers, not anything local.

[1:05:52] It's a combination of all of them from Valley Fest to Craven 2025 to a Christmas party.

[1:05:58] Okay, so this would be all different events.

[1:06:02] I'm just trying to get a sense of how much room

[1:06:04] for improvement, so to speak,

[1:06:05] how much additional outside attendees

[1:06:10] that we could possibly attract.

[1:06:13] If we're at about 20% right now,

[1:06:15] 70% of 26% you know,

[1:06:18] maybe this call that 20% or you know,

[1:06:21] 18%.

[1:06:21] Then seems like there's a lot of room for improvement

[1:06:25] for attracting people

[1:06:27] from outside the region, so I just wanted to establish that

[1:06:30] why we were having this discussion and make sure I'm

[1:06:32] along the cent, correct?

[1:06:33] Well, that's good.

[1:06:34] And I appreciate you asking about the numbers.

[1:06:36] Because it's 23% of survey respondents for one.

[1:06:40] So however many people chose to go ahead and fill out the survey.

[1:06:45] And then of those survey respondents, 70% said they chose

[1:06:48] a value, a student of spoken ballet hotel.

[1:06:51] But we track that out of town visitation another way, which is

[1:06:55] directly by communicating with the event organizers as part of their application process.

[1:07:00] And that's where the 2000 out of town of visitors last year came from and the number

[1:07:06] that we've surpassed that 2000 mark by July of this year so far.

[1:07:10] So a couple of different ways that we're looking at that.

[1:07:14] It's like an interject.

[1:07:15] I think Council member Kelly, you're absolutely correct.

[1:07:18] And I think one of the things that we really need to do and we have been coordinating

[1:07:22] what the hotel years.

[1:07:23] But I think there's some room there to look at that

[1:07:27] and talk about the booking policies.

[1:07:30] That was on the list of things to do,

[1:07:33] and I think that'll be something we can work on

[1:07:35] and bring back to you in the near term is,

[1:07:39] how do we work with the two nearby,

[1:07:45] but also all the other hotels as well,

[1:07:48] to really make that connection and try to drive

[1:07:51] those out of town visitors are out of the region visitors and get those numbers up.

[1:07:57] That's when we're younger.

[1:07:59] Thank you.

[1:08:00] So, going along with Council Member Kelly, you know, when we look at our revenues growing

[1:08:06] for sales tax and whatnot, I think bringing the tourism to our area out here is really important.

[1:08:14] You know, we've got two amazing venues between the course and ice rink coming and so I think

[1:08:20] center places really poised within a very central area, or that sports tourism can bring people

[1:08:27] to our hospitality areas, you know, dining the sports, the shopping at the mall, and great hotels,

[1:08:35] and so I really would like to see more people coming into the valley for those things from just

[1:08:40] this to six that we have seen. Because I think it's a win when, everywhere we go, with the room

[1:08:47] rights and what we get out of the TPA and all that stuff.

[1:08:51] So I think it can just compound on itself, obviously leaving space for community events.

[1:08:58] But I think that we can work on that hierarchy of booking whether it be tourism and focusing

[1:09:06] on how do we bring in that tourism dollar while still maintaining availability for not

[1:09:13] We're not messing with senior center where senior center is hands off, but any other venues that are being utilized just make sure that

[1:09:21] We're utilizing it to the maximum capacity for that to a risen dollar, I think that's what we're working

[1:09:28] Yeah, you know, I said earlier. I'm more in favor of giving this over to a third party and that's still true

[1:09:34] But that being said doesn't sound like the rest of the council's going that way

[1:09:37] So, one other suggestion I would have, you guys said that it's 60% occupied right now, give or take?

[1:09:45] Well, we were looking at the great room with that.

[1:09:48] We're more like over 65 at this point in a year, but anyway.

[1:09:53] Yeah, so we have about 35% excess capacity.

[1:09:57] I hope that when we're doing the right study, we allow for...

[1:10:00] This counted rates are even free rates to local community organizations as a loss leader, you know, you find that if you put out for a local community organization to let them come three or four times, the next year you charge them, they might be like, wow, this is a really great place, maybe we'll show up more.

[1:10:24] So one comment on that is that from a perspective of managing the facility and moving forward.

[1:10:37] I think it would be, I don't think we could do a loss leader type set up there because it would be in violation of the fee schedule.

[1:10:48] And I think that would be problematic,

[1:10:55] yeah, I just don't know how that would work.

[1:10:58] From a standpoint of, again, maximizing the usage of the facility, it's never going to be at a hundred percent.

[1:11:05] I think we'll get, because you do have change over as well, right? So you'll have certain days that are booked,

[1:11:11] but you have to set up, you have to break down and change.

[1:11:15] So I think it would be helpful when we bring it back to have some, I think it might even

[1:11:21] be in some of the case studies from the Johnson study about utilization rates.

[1:11:25] But I think we can bring that forward.

[1:11:27] I just want to caution the council on thinking that it'll all, you could get to a point

[1:11:32] where it's 100% utilized, because that's not possible.

[1:11:37] Johnson study does call that out.

[1:11:38] And you could really never book your room at 100% because it doesn't leave time

[1:11:43] you'd end up wearing it out.

[1:11:45] So I think maybe 80 might be an advisable target.

[1:11:49] So thank you for the comment and for the suggestions.

[1:11:52] Councillor Meprewick?

[1:11:54] I just kind of sparked another thought in my mind,

[1:11:56] which was around the memorials.

[1:11:59] And I know we have a policy for kind of waving

[1:12:02] reservation fees if it's a city council usage

[1:12:05] or a city government usage.

[1:12:07] But one of the things that's always kind of been on my mind

[1:12:09] which is to win a city council mover or form mayor passes away.

[1:12:13] We still charge them full rates for their service that happens at center place.

[1:12:19] And I know, I think one time, I think a lot of the city staff, and I came together when

[1:12:23] he paid for that to kind of offset that for the family for a former mayor that's passed,

[1:12:28] but something that I think that we should really consider is if you've served your time

[1:12:32] as a council member or even maybe a senior staff member or something at the city where you've

[1:12:38] a long connection with the city, maybe we should do something for the family on the past.

[1:12:44] Something for us to consider.

[1:12:48] All right.

[1:12:49] Well, I think that's a really good discussion.

[1:12:52] We can conclude it now and move on to the next topic.

[1:12:57] Thank you so much.

[1:12:58] Thank you.

[1:13:01] Donna Nicole, that was a great presentation.

[1:13:08] Next we have the active transportation plan discussion with Adam Jackson.

[1:13:11] Thank

[1:13:19] you Mayor members of Council.

[1:13:21] I'm joined by our traffic engineering manager, Jeremy Clark, and

[1:13:25] Kylie Jones.

[1:13:27] Can we horn?

[1:13:28] The consultant that helped us prepare the ATP.

[1:13:35] So tonight's discussion we've had quite a bit of time.

[1:13:42] The last year and a half this project, this planning effort has been going on.

[1:13:47] And we had a public hearing of short while ago,

[1:13:51] and pre-seated by administrative report to staff.

[1:13:57] And right before we get into this,

[1:14:00] I thought I'd just give a little bit of contextual history

[1:14:03] for active transportation in the city.

[1:14:07] And so back in, and I think that's why Mike's joining

[1:14:10] because he's a part of the creation of these efforts.

[1:14:13] So, background 2010, the city had a federal grant to develop a bike and pedestrian network.

[1:14:23] And when in doing that, that helped the city designate our safe routes to school,

[1:14:29] that helped us identify the lines on our maps that we see today for bike routes,

[1:14:35] the bike lanes we have on our streets where the sidewalks are, where our sidewalk priorities are.

[1:14:41] And around 2010, that came to fruition with the development of the installation of sidewalk projects funded by CDBG community, community development block grant funds,

[1:14:58] fast forward a few years.

[1:15:00] In 2016, when we were updating the comprehensive plan, the city made the decision to absorb that bike in pedestrian master plan, that was created in 2010, into the compliance transportation element, to acknowledge the vision of that master plan.

[1:15:19] Then, as we work down the line, subsequent

[1:15:23] compliant updates included that,

[1:15:25] continue to include active transportation

[1:15:28] abilities in the transportation element.

[1:15:33] In 2025, the DOT reached out to the city and said,

[1:15:37] hey, we have this funding opportunity to develop

[1:15:40] the active transportation plan for reasons

[1:15:43] that we'll get into.

[1:15:45] And then, here we are in 26 with a comprehensive plan

[1:15:49] update that we're in the midst of that also includes the requirement for a multi-modal level

[1:15:56] of service standard. And I'll let Jeremy describe that more as we get through the discussion

[1:16:02] if if worth it. Historically, John Mike, am I missing any high points or other items worth

[1:16:10] discussing? I think Adam you covered it pretty well, but if there's any other questions about the

[1:16:18] original 2010 Bike and Pedestrian Master Plan happy to chime in.

[1:16:25] And I would just add that that was really interesting time here at the city with a relatively new council that came on.

[1:16:34] Actually it was brand new council in 2010 and some of them were the council members had maybe an alternate viewpoint to

[1:16:46] pedestrian use and bicycle use within the right of

[1:16:51] ways. But it was a really interesting process. The

[1:16:54] public was very well represented very well. They came out a

[1:17:01] lot more so than they have at this point in time in the

[1:17:06] discussions. And so that really changed the council's

[1:17:09] perspective and allowed us to move forward and they adopted the

[1:17:13] And that's been kind of the basis of what we've had moving forward.

[1:17:19] Now at this stage, it gets a little mudier in the sense of you have this community involvement

[1:17:27] and the input from the community that looks at what do they want to see from opening up opportunities for

[1:17:37] where alternates to using vehicles.

[1:17:41] But at the same time, you have some requirements coming down

[1:17:45] from Olympia as well.

[1:17:46] And so what this document tries to do

[1:17:49] is to blend that together, not losing sight of the local input,

[1:17:55] but also being consistent with what some of the requirements

[1:17:58] are coming down from the state.

[1:17:59] Because this piece of a port, parts of this piece,

[1:18:03] get connected or incorporated into comprehensive plan moving forward.

[1:18:09] And so, we can talk about that.

[1:18:11] What does that look like?

[1:18:13] I know we had a pretty robust discussion yesterday at the agenda meeting about this particular topic.

[1:18:20] And I might have some good suggestions.

[1:18:23] The one thing I do want to lead you with is we don't.

[1:18:27] We want you to be comfortable with the plan.

[1:18:30] this is a policy document, so that's within your purview, the setting that policy.

[1:18:37] We don't want you to get to caught up in the order of things in this document because I think we're

[1:18:46] going to come forward with some exercises for you to put priorities on the different projects

[1:18:53] that are in here, and then those priorities will be incorporated directly into the comprehensive plant.

[1:18:58] That's some of the suggestions that that might prop forward yesterday.

[1:19:04] But as we roll through this, we'll tell you where those opportunities are and we'll bring that back.

[1:19:09] And we'll look at how to structure that.

[1:19:11] What we'll probably do is either at a upcoming council member or a council meeting,

[1:19:17] or even we would provide a spreadsheet to you via email and then have you get back to us with,

[1:19:24] How do you want to rank all these projects?

[1:19:27] They're ranked here in a certain manner,

[1:19:29] but that doesn't mean that that's reflective

[1:19:32] of what your policy direction is.

[1:19:34] It probably isn't, so that's something

[1:19:37] that we need to incorporate moving forward.

[1:19:40] But that incorporation can really be done

[1:19:43] in a better manner through the comprehensive plan.

[1:19:47] So is there anything else I missed on that, Mike?

[1:19:49] Well, I guess thinking about this since yesterday,

[1:19:55] I thought about the conference of plan and it being a policy document.

[1:20:00] I think that there's ways that we could structure and goals and policies that could help strengthen what the interests are for shared use pass, bike lanes, sidewalks, etc.

[1:20:12] But I think that the document, the active transportation plan document is a good place for the prioritization of what you would like to see along with the prioritization based on metrics.

[1:20:27] because the metrics exist, right, and they're going to talk about that more, but those metrics mean something when you're going for grants.

[1:20:34] Doesn't mean you necessarily are, let's just say there's a shared use path on Trent that ranks extremely high, but you have an interest in having a shared use path from Apple Way Trail to our northern trail over by our cross country course.

[1:20:50] Well, I think you could articulate that in the same document

[1:20:54] that that is a community priority, and we would like to see that happen,

[1:20:59] and still have the metrics associated with what has been done,

[1:21:03] that meets, I believe, Department of Transportation

[1:21:05] and some of the federal grant standards.

[1:21:08] So that's the way I was looking at it.

[1:21:10] So when we go through goals and policies, we can think a little bit more

[1:21:14] about how we might want to strengthen some of that language

[1:21:17] to support what you're trying to accomplish because it's a high-level document and we've been

[1:21:23] trying to reference more of our documents like the Transportation Improvement Program, the active

[1:21:30] Transportation Plan. And you remember when we didn't, we used to incorporate those in our

[1:21:35] component really led it to every year we had to make amendments to our comprehensive plan so it

[1:21:47] You know, the information within those and those will help when you have those discussions to determine what where you'd like to go with

[1:21:54] Your priorities. So I hope that's not too confusing.

[1:21:59] Dawn, I think we'll the mic and I have talked and we've thought about this quite a bit today.

[1:22:03] We'll get into it and I think there'll be some more clarity by the end of this figure's crossed.

[1:22:11] A brief timeline.

[1:22:12] I mentioned about 18 months ago, that's around numbers, so in February, the DOT contacted us.

[1:22:21] We decided with Council support to enter into a contract with the state to develop the ATP.

[1:22:28] And then here, coming into 2026, we shared the first draft, which is the same draft that we have tonight,

[1:22:35] that we've had for the last month or so.

[1:22:38] We shared the first draft and then shared it with the public for a public hearing, received

[1:22:45] zero comments, one written letter from Central Valley School District, subsequently a second

[1:22:51] letter from West Valley School District, and I believe that there may very well be a letter

[1:22:56] from STA in my inbox, but other than that, those and all three of those members were part of

[1:23:02] or all three of those letters were from members on our stakeholder working group, which was a

[1:23:08] mechanism we used in the community outreach effort.

[1:23:13] And here we are tonight to talk about the bones of the report.

[1:23:19] So John mentioned that the policy document

[1:23:24] in practice at the staff level,

[1:23:28] this plan aims to improve the transportation safety.

[1:23:32] Increase our competitiveness and satisfy

[1:23:35] comprehensive plan requirement for the multimodal level of service.

[1:23:41] That these transportation safety grant competitiveness elements play into the grant

[1:23:47] game, the funding programs, and what they look for.

[1:23:51] And that's part of what we'll see.

[1:23:54] That's part of why the need score shows up in our tables and the need score projects.

[1:24:03] but the need score to John and Mike's discussion, the need score is not necessarily the

[1:24:09] Council prioritization and that's where for the discussion tonight we really want to

[1:24:14] get insight on how to prioritize. The need score can be an element of a project but

[1:24:20] it's not the defining element for our council priority.

[1:24:27] The act of transportation plan is

[1:24:28] broken into six chapters,

[1:24:33] there are four appendices. One that gets into the weeds related

[1:24:37] to the existing conditions, another that gets into the weeds of our community engagement,

[1:24:42] another that gets into the weeds of the network development, and then the last appendix,

[1:24:49] which is a compilation of all the project summary pages.

[1:24:55] In the front end of the plan, there is

[1:24:58] the vision statement and goals.

[1:25:00] These are fairly consistent with existing comprehensive plan goals and likely to be in the complaint today, or the draft complaint that we're working through now.

[1:25:12] We envision a spoken valley where people of all ages and abilities can walk, bike, and roll using safe connected routes to reach everyday destinations.

[1:25:22] We work with our stakeholder group and engage the public through different touchpoints on the validity or accuracy of the statement and of these goals and they were supported and have maintained in the plan.

[1:25:41] Working through all the chapters, we come to the project lists which are mapped here,

[1:25:51] judging by the size of the council packet that I see here.

[1:25:55] It doesn't look like the actual full report is in the council packet.

[1:26:00] We have the full report available to look at tables, the project tables, of the top 20

[1:26:07] sidewalk projects, and the top 20 bike or shared use path projects.

[1:26:14] And those are top 20 based on the need score.

[1:26:16] The map here shows projects based on the need score.

[1:26:20] And the goal would be to discuss the process to date, the projects shown.

[1:26:29] We also have what the next slide is, is some policy and funding information.

[1:26:37] Generally, the blue boxes are the five E's engineering education,

[1:26:42] encouragement enforcement and evaluation, and then the green boxes are the various funding

[1:26:47] programs and tools that we have at our disposal.

[1:26:50] I expect to flip through this screen back and forth a few times and maybe ask Johnny to pull

[1:26:58] up the report if warranted, but with that, the presentation side is complete, so I guess

[1:27:05] I'd just like to open the floor before I do actually maybe Jeremy or Kylie anything to

[1:27:11] add.

[1:27:14] I think you did a great job, Adam, it's this document to date identifies existing network, the metrics

[1:27:21] that are out there to measure how the system rates with what needs improvements are needed based

[1:27:28] on speed, volume, safety, crashes, all those elements.

[1:27:32] And where we are today is to prioritize that for the city.

[1:27:36] And so, which we know what the needs are, we know what they are just on a basic level.

[1:27:40] Now we start adding in the wants and where should these projects go, how soon should they go?

[1:27:45] We know where they might find well, where others may not find well, but what's our priority

[1:27:51] And maybe you can explain how the funding part works, because, sure, there might be some confusion between, is this going to compete with an overlay project?

[1:28:05] Sure, so generally so, for active transportation by pedestrian type projects, there's very few programs available.

[1:28:15] The state DOT has a couple of them. One of them is the CFRF School program. Another is the

[1:28:22] pedestrian bicycle program. The state's transportation improvement board also has some multi-modal

[1:28:30] programs that make money available. It used to be called the sidewalk program. Now it's a more holistic

[1:28:36] active transportation program. And then SRTC has federal funds that come through the region that are

[1:28:45] committed to active transportation modes.

[1:28:49] And so when these programs want to fund a project,

[1:28:55] pause that.

[1:28:57] All these funding agencies, the DOT, the TIV, SRTC,

[1:29:01] they all have other parts of money that

[1:29:03] fund that overlay project or a street reconstruction

[1:29:06] or around about those few that I identified

[1:29:11] are targeted for these active transportation facilities.

[1:29:16] There's an opportunity for some of the programs to overlap, but generally what we have been

[1:29:23] doing very successfully is identifying our city needs for our transportation system,

[1:29:29] whether that street signals, pavement, sidewalk, and aligning our identified goals as a city,

[1:29:38] for it's street network, best aligning those in a competitive manner with the funding agencies

[1:29:44] to receive the grant funds, and doing that objectively puts us in a competitive space with

[1:29:52] this act of transportation plan, because we did follow this process.

[1:29:56] That was Sheparded by one of these the DOTC.

[1:30:00] By one of these funding programs, and so by doing this process, we're effectively identifying

[1:30:09] a top tier list of competitive projects. These projects wouldn't necessarily be competing with

[1:30:16] our grind and overlay payment preservation funds. There's a different part of money. Does that

[1:30:23] answer your question, John?

[1:30:26] Correct me if I'm wrong.

[1:30:28] But my understanding is while there are different pots of money, there's still city

[1:30:34] matching funds required for these grants.

[1:30:37] And so we have a finite amount of money for matching.

[1:30:42] So we have to prioritize.

[1:30:43] So in that sense, there is a competitive, you know, an impact, whether we funds some of the

[1:30:50] road projects more or some of these active transportation more. We only have one pot of money to correct.

[1:30:58] Yeah. And so, you know, the vast, I think, I want to say about COVID 2020, a handful of the

[1:31:09] active transportation programs went from Fed non-fed match to a hundred percent. The DOT program

[1:31:17] safe routes and pet bike. Those last few cycles have been 100% grant funded with no local

[1:31:22] match. T.I.B. 20% non T.I.B. match. And then the S.R.I.T.C. Dollars do have a 3.5-13.5% minimum

[1:31:33] match, which generally comes out of rate for those improvements. So yeah, we do internally

[1:31:40] have that competing. Do those rate dollars go to those modalities or to the the paving

[1:31:45] project, but which leads into the prioritization where we need to have your input.

[1:31:52] What do you want to see?

[1:31:54] Councilmember Merkel.

[1:31:56] Yeah.

[1:31:56] Thanks so much.

[1:31:57] I have a great many questions, but the first one I would probably start with, in this plan

[1:32:04] it identifies .15% of the city bikes and about 1.39% of the city walks.

[1:32:14] You know, I know that since I was a kid, you know, and the founding of the city, there has been millions upon millions of dollars invested inside walking and bike paths and all the other stuff.

[1:32:27] So what was that rate 10 years ago?

[1:32:31] I'm not familiar with the rate that you described, but also I guess I don't know that rate 10 years ago either.

[1:32:39] Okay, yeah, it's in the plan

[1:32:47] page 37 or so is what I wrote down.

[1:32:55] I think you're

[1:32:58] Why don't we don't know the numbers from 10 years ago. I wasn't involved there and then there may be some of that hidden deep inside.

[1:33:03] I think DKS to this study for that original one back in 2010

[1:33:08] And right, it's the the number of trips that are completed. That's what those percentages were based on the number of ships completed that percentage was walking and biking.

[1:33:16] So, we really probably haven't seen large increases that coincide with the multi-million dollar

[1:33:25] investment in these types of facilities in the city.

[1:33:30] So I guess to me, the first place I would like to start, one of the goals that's stated

[1:33:35] in the plan, I think it's goal five, says that one of our goals is to reduce the number

[1:33:42] of single-occupant vehicle trips and I guess what I'm saying is I think our city is kind

[1:33:50] of telling us that that's not what they want. So I don't know why we're imposing that goal.

[1:33:55] I mean we've given them ample opportunity to start doing that on their own. So I don't

[1:34:01] understand why we would impose that as a goal to say, hey you people you need to start sharing

[1:34:07] your vehicles or not have your own vehicle or, you know, that'll be better for you.

[1:34:13] Well, I would say that's more Olympia's goal than our goal and we get mandates from that.

[1:34:19] So, I would like to be really intentional about our decisions and according to this 96% of us

[1:34:27] use our personal vehicles daily to get back and forth to work and local government, the streets

[1:34:35] are, you know, the top priority, and the, which doesn't exclude, you know, sidewalks and

[1:34:41] bikes and that kind of stuff too, but they do add a significant amount of costs to

[1:34:46] the projects, according to these, these papers, but, you know, really my priority would be

[1:34:55] and fill on the sidewalks and save routes to school.

[1:35:00] And I think even just that is a huge accomplishment in a city like ours to work on those two areas and get, you know, those things completed.

[1:35:13] Because we're talking about arterials, basically, that's where the grant monies from.

[1:35:18] Well, except the safe routes to school wouldn't be. But, and so that's very important to use, you know, to focus on too. But I would say for me, those are the two real top priorities.

[1:35:29] And I have some thoughts about trails and those kinds of things to what we can talk about that later.

[1:35:36] Deputy Mayor.

[1:35:37] Yeah, I'd like to agree with those comments.

[1:35:39] Just for example, that I use personally that I've been involved with a community since I've been on the council.

[1:35:45] And previous two is the floor floor of road corridor from the spread to mission and be and further north of possible.

[1:35:53] That has not had any improvements at all getting back to what you mentioned comes from a miracle.

[1:35:59] no sidewalks, hardly any shoulder, since I actually lived on the corner for a

[1:36:05] valleyway when I was 12 years old. And so that's what I think of the

[1:36:09] mayor of Turins. I'm sure that's not the only, well, well, it's not that many. But

[1:36:13] that's what we, we, one of my goals, we have to look at that. That's, that's

[1:36:16] used a lot. You get the mission area going around the roundabout, those apartments

[1:36:21] have been going in just for the last years. It's phenomenal amount. Medical facilities

[1:36:25] that we're going in there and it's just going to be more and more challenging. So I think that's what we need it.

[1:36:30] My opinion focus of those corridors to get where we need to go and then with the sidewalks and anything I don't disagree with that.

[1:36:38] And those heavily used corridors.

[1:36:43] That's Mary Wick.

[1:36:46] So in my mind there's a couple things just when I try and cover a little bit of ground, but there's nothing more frustrating to me to see

[1:36:53] One guy person that develops let's say they put in I'm just going to use this one because I drive by all the time

[1:36:59] They put in a new zips on trend and we require them to put a sidewalk in

[1:37:04] So now you have a sidewalk across one business and it goes nowhere now the business is frustrated the communities

[1:37:11] Frustrated eggs are like oh, what a waste the city were the state or

[1:37:15] Whoever required this one

[1:37:17] Business owner to put in a sidewalk and it doesn't go anywhere

[1:37:20] So I totally get the need for sidewalk in fill to try and connect these because they're not doing

[1:37:27] us any good, nor deteriorating, and then we need to maintain them and they're getting very

[1:37:31] little usage because they don't go anywhere. So that, again, I feel like for me it's a higher

[1:37:37] priority around the freight movements or the hills kind of where that safety, because as we see

[1:37:44] and we're doing a lot more economic development and so you're seeing more freight going through

[1:37:49] the areas, so I think that's even more of an important, especially around, and some of this has been incorporated in the scoring for some of these projects around the elementary schools or some of that area, but I think kind of our freight environments are kind of important and some of those arterials.

[1:38:07] I think hills are another one, and I'm thinking of like McDonald between Trent and Wellesley.

[1:38:14] I cringe, I live for full discrepancy, I live on McDonald's, North of Welsley, but if I'm driving on McDonald's,

[1:38:21] south of Welsley towards Tranthers, two big hills, and every day I cross my fingers and pray that there's

[1:38:27] nobody that's walking up the one side of the hill is I'm driving up the other side of the hill,

[1:38:32] because you can't see, and the road is very narrow, and so I could see those as being parties for

[1:38:38] sidewalk in film, shared use paths, I think, or a different story. In my mind, there's a

[1:38:46] lot of economic value in those, as we talk about the bank trail around the river, or some

[1:38:52] of those, the halfway trail. We went after them and kind of prioritized them a little bit

[1:38:57] differently than a sidewalk in film. I feel like anything that's got some sort of economic

[1:39:01] development or tourism or something that feeds into our destination connectivity, I think,

[1:39:07] is big, and I think that should be a different,

[1:39:10] also in a different platform, we're a higher priority,

[1:39:12] to me than the rest, because that's kind of our core mission

[1:39:16] is to try and push on economic development.

[1:39:21] But yeah, I don't know if that makes sense or not.

[1:39:27] But that's my memory, Kelly.

[1:39:31] Well, again, admit that I don't have the background that most

[1:39:35] of you do with regards to the history of the development of this type

[1:39:39] plan within Spokane Valley. But probably the first time I ever tested I had a public comment

[1:39:45] in front of the council. I indicated that I have experience with the general Portland

[1:39:53] in other larger metropolitan areas that over time have made.

[1:40:00] I have clearly demonstrated their desire to impede the ability for people to drive their cars, and, you know, I expressed a hope that Spokane Valley wouldn't take a similar path.

[1:40:16] So I'm not suggesting that we are, but until I understand this a little more fully, I will say that, you know, my default position is that anything that tends to make it harder for the traveling public to get around

[1:40:28] is going to be looked at quite skeptically by me, I suppose, to the degree that I have

[1:40:34] any influence.

[1:40:36] So I would like to share that because I think that keeping in mind that, you know, like

[1:40:42] you said, 96% of people, you know, take a trip, and I want to continue to make it easy to

[1:40:48] navigate the city of Spokane.

[1:40:51] Now having said that, I certainly respect those people who bike and walk and we should continue

[1:40:56] to develop that and I would agree that sidewalks will probably be the number one thing that

[1:41:02] would get us the best return or best value because it's hard to walk down a sidewalk and then

[1:41:08] suddenly come to an impossible area. So that's what I'd walk to nowhere. Yeah it seems kind of like

[1:41:15] a no-brainer and as far as I don't see a whole lot of bikers when I'm out and about so I don't know

[1:41:21] who want to agree the public has a way higher to have additional bike access, especially

[1:41:27] backpads along our terials. I can see that those being useful, but again, so long as they're

[1:41:34] not too much of a negative impact on those people who pay for those roads, which would

[1:41:41] be those people who'd buy gas, that's my remarkable.

[1:41:46] Yeah, I appreciate some of those comments from Council Member Kelly.

[1:41:50] I would note that in the survey we had approximately 9% of respondents were bicyclists

[1:41:57] which completely dwarfs the 0.015 or 0.15% of the city that actually rides bikes.

[1:42:05] So they had a little bit of an extra thumb on the scale I think.

[1:42:09] I would seriously depriorize almost everything in this plan.

[1:42:13] I think really we should be looking at maybe our elementary schools, a couple miles around

[1:42:19] those elementary schools, you know, potentially the middle schools.

[1:42:24] But beyond that, I mean, I'm looking at these numbers and these numbers are just, so we're

[1:42:28] talking about $100 million of sidewalks in this plan.

[1:42:33] And even if we got that all granted, this plan also mentions that the maintenance cost on

[1:42:39] That $100 million is $5 to 10% per year, so that's a $5 to 10 million cost that's coming

[1:42:47] onto the city for a bunch of sidewalks that our numbers say, almost nobody uses.

[1:42:54] And again, it's not just, you know, I know that they're going to be that argument that

[1:42:57] people don't use them because they're not there, but we have seen such an increase in the

[1:43:02] city of this infill, but we're not seeing an increase in numbers.

[1:43:05] So I would really, I think we should remove a lot from this plan and really kind of

[1:43:10] pare it down to just looking at the schools that, you know, where we would have a lot of

[1:43:15] impact and, you know, thinking about where we are with inflation and all this other stuff

[1:43:20] because all this money just comes from inflation.

[1:43:23] That's a member of a week.

[1:43:25] So, I think back to the number of respondents, where the number of people that say they're

[1:43:31] bicycle and I think back in my own history on one hand and I go, I had a job in the industrial

[1:43:37] park and I still do occasionally work out there and I don't live that far from the industrial

[1:43:40] park.

[1:43:41] When I first got my job in the industrial park, I might live a mile, maybe two miles away from

[1:43:46] the industrial park.

[1:43:48] I go, everybody joked with me saying, well, dang, you should just walk to work or bike,

[1:43:52] ride your bike to work and I probably should have to be a better person but I didn't because

[1:43:58] didn't feel safe, right? I mean there's no safe way to really cross Trent to get to the industrial

[1:44:05] part from our neighborhood and there. So I give both sides a little bit because it's like on one

[1:44:11] hand not many people are biking. I probably would have been a more apt to bike to work if I

[1:44:18] felt safe enough to have a pass to do it. So I see little bit of both sides on that. Then alternatively

[1:44:27] And I think about, okay, who are the major bike people

[1:44:29] that I see on my road and my road?

[1:44:33] And I think of it as well as my kids.

[1:44:35] It's the kids.

[1:44:36] They're not gonna fill out a survey response

[1:44:37] to say that they write their bicycles.

[1:44:40] I mean, there's six, eight, 10.

[1:44:42] They're not filling in an emergency survey,

[1:44:44] but they're the ones that are on the roads,

[1:44:46] right in the bikes.

[1:44:47] And where do I want them to write their bikes on?

[1:44:49] I don't want them to write.

[1:44:50] I tell my kids they can't go south of Walsley,

[1:44:53] or even go on Walsley around my neighborhood

[1:44:55] because it's not safe in my mind, and so.

[1:45:00] Just thinking through where who is the people in my opinion of who I want to watch out for, which is skits, and how do we make it safe enough that they would write their bikes, because if you've had a kid, you know, they're going to want to write their bike, where they're going to write their bike, they're going to leave the house, and they're going to go over their friends are, wherever the park is, or the school, or whatever, so it's kind of designing these things to kind of come up with, how do we keep kids safe?

[1:45:29] because they're not just come school, they're going to their friends' house, they're going,

[1:45:33] I swear to God, my kids will go wherever, I let them go.

[1:45:37] And so, and probably a lot of times, where I wouldn't let them go.

[1:45:41] Well, I think, unfortunately, these plan is more for our chair, right?

[1:45:47] I mean, you're talking about residential areas where your kids would get on, and my kids

[1:45:52] going up to, and this is not going to address that, right? Am I right? We're not.

[1:46:00] This plan is for the general active transportation in the city. It's not to prioritize active

[1:46:06] overcars. It's not to do any of that. It's not only focused on our materials. The metrics

[1:46:11] that we have, so that the state has adopted the level of traffic stress as its metric for

[1:46:16] or multimodal level of service.

[1:46:19] And so the level of traffic stress measures

[1:46:21] vehicular volume speeds with the roadway,

[1:46:25] whether there's facility and tells us

[1:46:27] what their expected level of stress is.

[1:46:30] For local streets, the volumes are low.

[1:46:32] The speeds are low, and so the stress is low.

[1:46:35] And so those would just qualify under the metric

[1:46:38] of that piece of the equation is,

[1:46:42] is that where the local streets would fall

[1:46:43] for the majority of them.

[1:46:45] the arterioles are the focus of this, they appear to be the focus of this plan because those

[1:46:50] were the higher speeds and higher volumes occur. And so that focus leads to how can, how can

[1:46:56] the city provide both the required multimodal level of service but also where those priorities

[1:47:03] come in not to take people out of cars to provide an option so that they don't have to own a vehicle

[1:47:10] to go somewhere.

[1:47:12] Yeah, but the metrics preclude or basically enliven it,

[1:47:16] because the grants are based on the metrics.

[1:47:20] I saw a hedge ache, no.

[1:47:24] Maybe I misunderstood.

[1:47:25] Were you saying that the metrics,

[1:47:28] so the metrics are a lot of data combined.

[1:47:32] And so we have aligned that with funding,

[1:47:35] but we haven't precluded anything based on the funding.

[1:47:39] So we've looked at all the data sets first,

[1:47:41] made the assessment and then we're aligning funding later, so not in reverse. We haven't taken anything

[1:47:47] out or changed anything based on funding eligibility requirements.

[1:47:53] Okay, but the list is basically, and your maps is basically our, and that's because the

[1:48:00] level of traffic stress is a three or four, which is not satisfactory. And so the granting agencies

[1:48:08] would see that in a project, improving that. So another element to this that we haven't discussed

[1:48:15] in our past meetings when we prioritized in this planning effort, we automatically at the staff

[1:48:26] side, we said if it's an existing LTS-1 or 2, it doesn't need an improvement. So why would we

[1:48:34] prioritize a sidewalk on an LTS-2 street to get sidewalk in film when there's streets out there

[1:48:41] with more stressful conditions so we took those out.

[1:48:46] That doesn't mean that we have to and I bring that up because the community has said this

[1:48:52] and it's the topic here right now where serving schools and parks, I know parks haven't

[1:48:58] been discussed tonight but when schools are discussed in the kids access to schools often

[1:49:03] we had heard that similar access to parks is equally important.

[1:49:07] We could re-evaluate this and say,

[1:49:10] within a certain buffer distance of a school or park,

[1:49:14] a level of stress 2 is not acceptable.

[1:49:17] We wanted to be a 1.

[1:49:19] And what we would see, we would see projects pop up

[1:49:22] because now they're going from a 2, which is OK.

[1:49:26] Now they're at a 2 today, but that's not OK,

[1:49:29] because we wanted them to be a 1.

[1:49:30] So our project list could be morphed just a little.

[1:49:33] And with those projects, you start to see those come up.

[1:49:37] Or it could be it's an entirely separate list

[1:49:40] that just shows, hey, here's a list that dedicates

[1:49:43] a commitment to safe routes to school or parks.

[1:49:47] Local access streets would then be more visible

[1:49:49] because we made that decision to take it from a requirement

[1:49:53] to a requirement one.

[1:49:55] Well, they'd be more visible, but with the grant,

[1:49:58] Be more likely to.

[1:50:00] To overlook that because. Quite frankly, no, because kids aren't getting hit at any of them. And that's that's a huge metric when it comes to the grant programs.

[1:50:10] And so, and that happens on busier streets. We are very fortunate when we look at crash data that there are very, very few child involved crashes related to schools or parks.

[1:50:23] We are very fortunate with that regard.

[1:50:32] I guess from my perspective, you know, again, frankly, I don't care about what the grants will

[1:50:39] fund.

[1:50:40] I care about what our community priorities are.

[1:50:43] And I do want school, I mean, you know, coming from what Council Member Wixead, what I care

[1:50:48] about is kids abilities to buy, you can to walk and to do those things.

[1:50:53] I'm not seeing any justification in these numbers.

[1:50:56] They're represent that we should be further improving

[1:51:01] arterials where the kids just aren't.

[1:51:03] I mean, maybe there's a few people commuting.

[1:51:05] There's maybe a few people biking to work or whatever.

[1:51:09] But the numbers just don't speak to it.

[1:51:10] And we've seen such an increase there.

[1:51:13] I just encourage my fellow council members to think about

[1:51:18] how bad inflation has gotten and how much we keep taking

[1:51:23] on these new things, and we're building new sidewalks and building this and building that.

[1:51:27] We have to take on the maintenance costs for those things, and I just don't see how

[1:51:31] this is going to work out in favor of the public, especially when the numbers don't show that

[1:51:36] the public is going that direction.

[1:51:40] I think it might be helpful to talk about council member Merkel brings up the numbers.

[1:51:46] Maybe talk about how did you generate that, where did it come from, how often do we check for

[1:51:53] usage of sidewalk and shared use path, that type of thing.

[1:51:58] I think it would be helpful because I'm not sure, I give where

[1:52:03] Council member Merkel's coming from, but I don't know.

[1:52:06] It seems like a generalization to me, so maybe more specific

[1:52:10] discussion on the actual measurement, how did it come to be.

[1:52:16] We already referred to the fact that we don't have any historical

[1:52:19] information so to say that nobody's using it.

[1:52:22] I don't think is that accurate because we have nothing to compare it to.

[1:52:26] Maybe right, maybe not be right, I don't know.

[1:52:28] So maybe some more information on how did you generate these numbers?

[1:52:33] So those are the numbers that we're in there with the 1% and 3% to roughly what those were.

[1:52:38] Those I believe are from SRTC's household travel survey.

[1:52:43] Those are the numbers of the percentage of people that are commuting.

[1:52:46] So those are commute trips that are using those different modes.

[1:52:49] Those aren't a summary or an estimate of the overall city people taking a trip from their home to the grocery store or any like those are the commute trips

[1:52:57] These guy those are the numbers that we're referring to but we haven't put a counter on any of our trails

[1:53:05] I mean, I know there was an effort on the Centennial Trail years ago that there was a counter over by Barker road

[1:53:15] None of those numbers are incorporated into this plan

[1:53:26] So, yeah, you're right. We have some data that we received from the city that is input into the plan.

[1:53:35] That includes crash data, that includes, you know, other layers.

[1:53:42] For example, like speed limits, those types of data sets are in the plan, built into the plan.

[1:53:49] We do supplement with big data sources as well.

[1:53:52] So for bike and pedestrian volume projections,

[1:53:57] we use what's called replica data.

[1:54:00] It's very well known source of data used in plans all over the US.

[1:54:05] So that gives you sort of like an estimated volume of how

[1:54:09] that facility is being used based on like cell phone GPS,

[1:54:13] like that that pings and it's big data sets source.

[1:54:16] So that's used a lot of times in place if it's generally, it's tough to see, but it's generally

[1:54:25] a heat map.

[1:54:26] That's going to follow our material network because lots of our users on foot by vehicle.

[1:54:33] Yeah, and you'll see the origins and destinations pop up, right?

[1:54:38] So like, you know, commercial centers, you'll start to see those sort of pop up in the heat

[1:54:42] as places that people are traveling to on foot and on bike as well.

[1:54:49] But I think it may be helpful for the council and this is not something we would

[1:54:54] solve today, but it's something that maybe staff needs to get together

[1:54:58] or talk about how to...

[1:55:00] We'd better provide local data for this usage. It seems to be a big issue with council. I want

[1:55:07] to make sure that it's accurate as best as we can get, because I don't want the council to

[1:55:16] short-change members of the community that are looking for these types of improvements just

[1:55:22] because we weren't able to give the council the correct data.

[1:55:27] Yeah, and if I may just follow up to that point,

[1:55:33] we do have a process that we look at,

[1:55:36] and without going down a deep rabbit hole on the technical side.

[1:55:41] We do, you know, for facilities that don't exist right now,

[1:55:44] we can't, you know, there's no data that you could provide

[1:55:47] to supplement this plan.

[1:55:49] one of the recommendations out of the plan, you know, could be setting up permanent bike

[1:55:55] pet counters, right? Like a program so that you can understand before and after usage and volumes.

[1:56:03] But in place of that, there's a NCHRP, a process that we follow to project out how a new facility

[1:56:15] will be utilized and so that is in the workbook and it's basically, you know, depending

[1:56:21] on the facility type if it's a shared use path or a bike lane or a sidewalk there is a number

[1:56:28] of people and for this particular planning effort, it's separated, you know, 500 and under

[1:56:36] 500 to 1,000, 1,500 or greater than 1,500. So that's built into this model of the needs score

[1:56:44] And so essentially what that needs score is going to tell you is that if you put a facility

[1:56:49] here, it is going to impact the most people for the least amount of money.

[1:56:54] And that's what the need score is.

[1:56:57] So mixed up prioritization and need score.

[1:56:59] The need score is really just telling you where that facility is and the money is best spent

[1:57:06] in the city based on safety data, based on all of the data combined.

[1:57:11] So I hope that clears up that.

[1:57:14] Also, I want to share the recommendations

[1:57:16] of projects came out into three bins.

[1:57:19] There's corridor studies because Sylvan, Spreg, Pines,

[1:57:25] you can see the heat maps from some of the tech memos.

[1:57:29] They are massive undertakings.

[1:57:33] They need a little bit more attention

[1:57:35] than we could give them here in this planning effort.

[1:57:38] Having grown up in the valley.

[1:57:40] I know that to be true and I totally as well, you know, as a pedestrian on a sidewalk right next to

[1:57:47] pines.

[1:57:47] It's not comfortable.

[1:57:49] So, we just needed a little bit more of a dedicated.

[1:57:52] So that's where you'll see in the recommendation to court or studies in one bucket.

[1:57:56] You'll see another bike and share these path improvements.

[1:58:00] We left a little bit of variability for funding for your guys' priorities, like, do we

[1:58:06] on a bike lane on the street or do we want a separated path?

[1:58:11] You know, we tried to connect as many routes to destinations using existing pathways such

[1:58:19] as the Centennial Trail, such as the Apple Way Trail, because they exist now and if we can

[1:58:24] get people to those separated paths, that is, you know, ultimately the lowest stress and so

[1:58:30] people are more likely to use it.

[1:58:32] And then third, we have a list of pedestrian like sidewalk gap projects, which has been mentioned, and there's over 1,300 different gaps in the valley, right?

[1:58:44] So, you know, and I think Adam was mentioning, you could turn up the dial and just focus on the ones.

[1:58:49] We prioritize based on, not prioritize the needs. We sorted them in a spreadsheet based on proximity to school parks and transit.

[1:58:58] So you can re-sort those sidewalk gap projects and just focus on ones that are closer to schools or closer to parks.

[1:59:08] But there are quite a few.

[1:59:10] And those are the smallest segments we could get them in.

[1:59:13] So there might be like a half block or a corner that doesn't exist.

[1:59:18] That's not reflected in the plan.

[1:59:20] But I hope that.

[1:59:22] Yeah, I don't remember with.

[1:59:25] Oh, I'm sorry.

[1:59:25] I think back to the John's original question as far as the data that we had as far as the

[1:59:32] commute trips and then the actual volumes out there, that's not, it's not something we

[1:59:35] have as a hard count, the metric, the mandate for what we use for our old comprehensive

[1:59:41] plan and level of service requirements as we move forward to meet those criteria for funding

[1:59:46] and concurrency is all based on the vehicle.

[1:59:49] So we count cars, everywhere we count cars in intersection, we count peds in bikes, anywhere

[1:59:55] So we calcars on those tubes that are on the street.

[1:59:58] We kind of catch bike.

[2:00:00] Sometimes, if they're traveling in the lane, but we don't catch any pedestrians and very, very regularly at bikes, so we just don't have that data.

[2:00:06] There hasn't been a requirement to meet our concurrency and collect bikes and peds throughout the city, so we just don't have that information.

[2:00:16] It also be curious, see we have that, see we work in a choir that what's a number that's

[2:00:26] sufficient to make a decision based on, like what numbers do we need a hundred pedestrians

[2:00:30] walking in this block to make it okay for a sidewalk, do we need a thousand, ten, like

[2:00:36] it's just, it's so interesting because you can pick a street anywhere through the city and

[2:00:44] find a different scenario, but to Jeremy's point, the requirement for a facility isn't based

[2:00:50] on the number of APA. It's based on the draft of the vehicle and the makeup of how

[2:00:55] the vehicle interacts with a potential non-vehicle.

[2:01:00] So I'm trying to process how those numbers provide value and to your point of helping validate

[2:01:07] future decisions to not ignore input from community members, but I guess how many numbers

[2:01:14] would we need, and that's kind of what I'm struggling with.

[2:01:17] Well, that was my own concern, as listening to the discussion, which I think is great,

[2:01:21] and the input's very important to help shape this plan moving forward, but I don't want

[2:01:27] to leave a council in the community where the feeling like nobody uses these, it's not worth

[2:01:32] the money, and that's what I was hearing.

[2:01:35] I don't think we have the data to show one way or the other, so you can make a general

[2:01:40] organization, it doesn't mean it's true. I think it's the type of discussion, what type

[2:01:47] of infrastructure do you want to provide for the community. And I think also don't lose

[2:01:53] track of the public input that has been received on this and what people want to see and use.

[2:02:02] So I think there's still quite a bit of work. I think that needs to be done on this plan

[2:02:07] before it would come forward for any type of further action,

[2:02:13] but we do appreciate the input

[2:02:17] and the discussion on this particular item

[2:02:21] because I think it's very helpful.

[2:02:23] We're hailing.

[2:02:24] Oh wait, no, I had called on you earlier.

[2:02:27] So, you know, I was just gonna kind of go the next step

[2:02:30] and I blame the state for this,

[2:02:32] but just thinking of where developments go in

[2:02:35] and how dense they're forcing our hand to be.

[2:02:39] And I look at the houses, they're going to go in,

[2:02:41] there are five or six homes where there was one.

[2:02:44] There is no guard, there is no place for kids to play.

[2:02:48] It's going to force people onto the streets and infrastructure.

[2:02:52] So as we start to think about what we want our community to do

[2:02:55] or the needs that are coming, a household that has a five-foot buffer

[2:03:00] for a backyard is going to need more than a house

[2:03:03] it has a half an acre free yard in my opinion.

[2:03:07] And no parking requirements, too, right?

[2:03:09] So, and then what do you do?

[2:03:11] So, I feel like not only does it who's here now,

[2:03:15] but let's look up the horizon here a little bit and go,

[2:03:18] oh my God, this is what's coming down our pike,

[2:03:20] because we talk about comprehensive plan

[2:03:22] and what the state's doing to us.

[2:03:25] The needs are gonna be changing, too.

[2:03:28] That's number, Haley.

[2:03:29] Thank you.

[2:03:31] Yeah, and anecdotally, which I realized

[2:03:33] This is not a lot of data, but everybody in my neighborhood

[2:03:37] red spikes, everybody.

[2:03:39] They don't go to work on their bike, but they

[2:03:42] recreate on their bikes.

[2:03:44] They go to the school, they go to parks.

[2:03:46] They leave in the morning and don't come back to

[2:03:48] afternoon.

[2:03:48] I have no idea where they go.

[2:03:50] But entire families are biking and they're going downpines

[2:03:53] and they're going downboutish because those are two

[2:03:56] streets that are right by me and they're kind of fun streets

[2:03:58] to write a bike down if you're a kid.

[2:04:00] But they're also kind of dangerous.

[2:04:01] So, I don't, I don't believe this, that commuting is the only way you use a bike, right?

[2:04:09] You use bikes for lots of things, most people use bikes for fun and for exercise, not necessarily to go downtown to work.

[2:04:18] It just isn't something that's so, I just wanted to make my statement known that I don't necessarily agree with everything you're hearing tonight about numbers and things.

[2:04:27] I understand why you make the priorities you do.

[2:04:30] I don't think that the numbers are necessarily accurate.

[2:04:33] Maybe they're a best guess, but I don't know.

[2:04:36] I just wanted to be clear that I'm not in this like that.

[2:04:42] Councilwoman Rieger, did you have your hand in?

[2:04:44] Thank you.

[2:04:45] Yes.

[2:04:45] So when Council Member Witt was talking about these neighborhoods,

[2:04:49] you know, because of the construction at 30 second in pines,

[2:04:53] I have gotten to know my neighborhoods very well lately.

[2:04:56] Because I have nowhere to go at this point to get out.

[2:05:00] But you know, the neighborhood behind the 30 second in Pine's highway cemetery is exactly that. It is crammed in and that neighborhood, I believe it's an HOA, I think it's going to have to be.

[2:05:17] But they do have sidewalks, they do have community use spaces.

[2:05:22] And so I'm wondering if those are the kind of neighborhoods that are going to go in.

[2:05:26] Can we mandate that they put in their own sidewalks that they do have a certain amount of green space or community yard space, I guess.

[2:05:35] Maybe we already do.

[2:05:37] But I don't know how these people are going to survive with that five foot patch of grass and a postage stamp of a

[2:05:47] patio and still be able to have family times. So I do see that the need is going to grow that

[2:05:53] people go beyond their homes for recreating in that kind of a space. But also I think that as a

[2:06:01] neighborhood group you should put in some of that infrastructure as well.

[2:06:09] Yeah, I guess I'm a little bit

[2:06:12] puzzled that we're saying that the numbers in our own plan that we produced ourselves might not be accurate

[2:06:20] that's a little scary to me.

[2:06:22] It's also a little scary to me, you know,

[2:06:24] what Council Member Haley was bringing up,

[2:06:26] which is that there's all these kids that are out there

[2:06:28] byking, which I don't disagree with.

[2:06:30] That's why I said that, you know, we should focus on schools,

[2:06:33] but we're not thinking about that at all

[2:06:34] because this plan is using the numbers

[2:06:37] that were captured in this plan to decide on the priorities

[2:06:40] for this plan.

[2:06:41] And so if there's all these kids that are riding their bikes

[2:06:44] next to schools and they're not being captured

[2:06:46] and that's really where we should be prioritizing the funding.

[2:06:49] I mean, the plan doesn't speak to that so to me it's like this isn't like a state plan or somebody else made this thing and we're commenting on doesn't make sense

[2:06:57] I mean, this is ours. So if it's not accurate, what are we doing here?

[2:07:03] I would I would disagree with that and one aspect is the way this plan addresses that or accounts for kids and how they're gonna get to and from the location

[2:07:12] Is that level of traffic stress the level LTS level traffic stress one or two is the is the what is the terminology?

[2:07:19] There's lower uses, it's not a safe and competent rider, it's not someone who's going to go on on the arterial on the shoulder.

[2:07:26] So those metrics that say how stressful a road might be, that is pointed directly at novices and children

[2:07:32] and being able to get on the street.

[2:07:35] As an example, when I do bike to work sometimes and I live in Idaho, I'll come all the way down,

[2:07:41] with out of concern, I don't care.

[2:07:44] As soon as I have a child with me, that mentality is 100% different.

[2:07:49] I'm on the trail the whole way.

[2:07:51] And it totally, when I started the city in 2020,

[2:07:54] I could go along the trail and maybe see two or three other people.

[2:07:57] Now I have to slow down and get out of the way,

[2:08:00] because there's so many people in the summertime.

[2:08:02] But I say that with a lot of sarcasm built in,

[2:08:05] because that's how many people are using the facilities,

[2:08:07] and that's because it's an LTS-1.

[2:08:09] any child can go out there and not worry about a car or some other thing, any

[2:08:14] parent can let their child go out there. The vehicular concerns are out there.

[2:08:18] There's other concerns that may have, but that's how these metrics, and I don't

[2:08:23] like to use the word metrics that's all we have. We have to find some way to

[2:08:27] estimate and measure it. That's how these account for the lower level users that

[2:08:31] don't have the ability to sense these other situations that have a lower level

[2:08:35] of stress as they do that.

[2:08:36] I guess I would just respond to that by saying maybe they shouldn't be on our

[2:08:40] materials.

[2:08:42] Maybe there's no amount of things that we can do to fix those arterials to make

[2:08:45] them rideable and they should stay by schools.

[2:08:48] I also just very quickly wanted to respond to Adam's question.

[2:08:53] For me, I think that what we should be looking at is a percent of our maintenance budget that

[2:08:57] corresponds relatively closely to the percent of the population that's using these things.

[2:09:03] That's how I would answer the question.

[2:09:05] So it's not about how many people ask for something.

[2:09:07] It's about how many people are going to use this.

[2:09:09] What is our maintenance budget going to be going forward?

[2:09:12] What can we reasonably maintain that would,

[2:09:14] that would be commensurate with that number of uses?

[2:09:18] Any manager, did you have?

[2:09:21] Are you thinking?

[2:09:23] Well, I think Jeremy answered the question.

[2:09:25] I think from my perspective,

[2:09:28] bringing up the shortages of data,

[2:09:30] So, Council Member Merkel seems certain that nobody ever uses sidewalks and bike paths,

[2:09:36] and I think there's something to be careful of making generalizations like that.

[2:09:44] So that was my point, and looking into more of the data is how do we know that we're

[2:09:53] heading in the right direction here, because I think if you follow where Council Member

[2:09:58] I want to go basically through...

[2:10:00] The plan away, and nobody does anything anymore to help improve the infrastructure within the city.

[2:10:07] And I don't believe that's the public input that we've received on this particular program.

[2:10:12] So I think you'd be missing the mark again on this particular issue.

[2:10:19] And so, for my perspective, I think our point in coming tonight was to have this type of discussion.

[2:10:29] It is a draft plan.

[2:10:31] We did do a public hearing.

[2:10:34] Unfortunately, you didn't have a lot of input from that, but I think this has been very helpful

[2:10:38] to hear Council's input and the comments received.

[2:10:42] I think I would like to have more direct discussion with the team and talk about

[2:10:49] what we heard tonight and how do we incorporate those comments into the plan to make this

[2:10:56] more of a spoken Valley-centric plan? Because I do feel that that's needed on this particular

[2:11:02] piece and how do you balance what the council and the community want to see versus what the

[2:11:07] states mandating is a requirement? I think there needs to be a lot more discussion and input on that.

[2:11:13] So I think if what the mayor's concurrence that we would wrap up this portion of the meeting.

[2:11:20] Yeah, I would prove that, but we were going to have, we talked about just to want to do the prioritizing.

[2:11:29] I think at this stage, the team needs to talk about it and then we would come forward with an exercise, as I mentioned, to begin with not to do tonight,

[2:11:39] But one that we would then come forward and have you talk about the different elements and what do you see as important and what do you not see as important?

[2:11:46] Okay, and I'd like to kind of close with I guess my own another comment or consideration I guess so we talk a lot about

[2:11:56] You know the metrics and you know who's using it and then in the fear factor and all that kind of stuff but like on some of these things and I guess mostly on the trails I guess

[2:12:06] There are other things that I think we need to take into consideration, and I would just

[2:12:11] like to give one example, and that is the Apple Way Trail.

[2:12:16] And yes, there are more people using it, because I've been using it too, and I see people

[2:12:21] come and go.

[2:12:22] But there are other issues with certain segments of that trail that have nothing to do with traffic

[2:12:29] or whatever.

[2:12:29] And there's a lot of businesses that I think that trail has cost them a lot in terms of lack of security and so they build fences, but they're barbed wire, they still get break-ins, there's drug use on their property, that kind of stuff, which is something we need to also consider and think about.

[2:12:48] And so, I don't know, I mean, oh, and I just got a,

[2:12:53] actually I just got a request last week from somebody who said,

[2:12:57] would the city please build a fence on the trail to keep everybody out of their area?

[2:13:03] And I'm going like, well, normally that's, you know, the business builds the fence, right?

[2:13:08] But anyway, so that was out, and then I cancel my Breaker shared with me today,

[2:13:13] some stuff on Facebook or people who had concerns.

[2:13:16] So it's not just metrics, there's other things that need to be kind of wrapped up into these decisions.

[2:13:22] And so I would hope that that could also be considered.

[2:13:27] And just because you did point out some things tonight,

[2:13:30] and I heard it collectively from Council on more of a high level goal policy oriented.

[2:13:36] I would be happy to review some of the things that we were said tonight and incorporate those into the goals and policies of the component.

[2:13:43] That's just a high level.

[2:13:46] We're interested in sidewalks around schools.

[2:13:49] Those types of things.

[2:13:50] I'd be happy to put those in there.

[2:13:51] Help sky conversations in the future, so.

[2:13:56] Is that more?

[2:13:59] Well, great.

[2:13:59] Then we'll wrap it up and look forward to the follow-up from staff.

[2:14:04] And yeah, I continue the discussion, because it is an important

[2:14:07] discussion.

[2:14:08] So thank you very much.

[2:14:10] Appreciate that.

[2:14:14] Oh, do we need a break?

[2:14:15] Okay, 10 minute break.

[2:14:20] Let's see that.

[2:14:24] 725.

[2:14:50] Oh, like as soon as there's things to get to that.

[2:14:53] I'll hear that.

[2:14:55] Thank you.

[2:14:57] We are ready now for our next item.

[2:15:00] Which is the Comprehensive Plan Discussion with Steve Robertge and Mike Basinger.

[2:15:07] Good evening, Mayor Council, Mike Basinger, Community and Economic Development Director.

[2:15:13] One thing I wanted to start up before Steve actually got into his presentation was just to talk about what we did with the goals and policies since the last time we met.

[2:15:24] One of the things we took all of the goals and policies that were put together,

[2:15:28] of which, you know, the consultants derived a lot of them for us to be consistent with state

[2:15:34] requirements, but we went through there and took some out that we didn't really feel like

[2:15:41] made sense based on council's conversations with us. Of course, being wise about what needs

[2:15:48] to stay in the plan to stay in compliance, but we also looked at the policies and where they

[2:15:58] looked at kind of analyzing that and trying to make sure that things like protecting property

[2:16:04] rights, maintaining neighborhood character and supporting a flexible business climate.

[2:16:10] Those types of things that those were in there, because that's been the spirit of our

[2:16:14] plan.

[2:16:15] We've always wanted to support businesses, we've always wanted to protect property rights, and

[2:16:19] we especially wanted to protect neighborhood character.

[2:16:22] So, try to put that in there, but also do so through a valley centric lens.

[2:16:29] So, hopefully you can see that with these goals and policies when we go through them tonight.

[2:16:33] But with that, I'll let Steve take it away.

[2:16:37] Oh, I can't.

[2:16:39] Well, good evening.

[2:16:40] So, I have just a short presentation for you tonight, but I want to start off with talking about

[2:16:46] and right now we're in the PRIC update process

[2:16:50] we're entering that final stage.

[2:16:52] So we wanted to provide to you just another look

[2:16:54] at these goals and policies.

[2:16:56] You've seen these all before, but they've been as Microsoft

[2:16:59] and they've been refined to include your comments

[2:17:02] at some clarity, reduced redundancy,

[2:17:04] and further align with the city's overall vision.

[2:17:07] The goals and policies from the foundation,

[2:17:12] for the complain and development regulations,

[2:17:13] and further help to define and execute the city's vision, which you see up here.

[2:17:22] This image shows the relationship between the growth management act, the county-way

[2:17:26] planning policies, components of plan and development code, and how those feed-in to actual

[2:17:30] development onto the ground.

[2:17:36] As a message of removing into the final phase, we'll soon have the full draft, complex of

[2:17:39] plan available for a review, and we'll be conducting an additional public outreach and

[2:17:43] participation.

[2:17:44] You can see where entering here into phase phase three, we've got the draft together, and, like

[2:17:50] for.

[2:17:55] During earlier phases, we conducted stakeholder interviews. We put together a project

[2:18:00] website with central hub for all of our updates where you can still find all the

[2:18:06] compliant pieces that you've seen as well as the planning commission as well as additional

[2:18:11] information on some of the environmental review, the draft, environmental impact statement and

[2:18:16] other things. We provided information in the city newsletter, social media, we did some public

[2:18:23] meetings and open house, surveys, and many polls.

[2:18:28] We conducted, we had a booth at community events,

[2:18:32] including this Valley Library,

[2:18:34] partners in the Northwest Valley Fest,

[2:18:36] and community conversations.

[2:18:41] So now into the goals and policies.

[2:18:42] Here's a list of the goals and policies

[2:18:44] and each of the conference upon elements.

[2:18:46] When I talk about elements, I'm also talking

[2:18:48] about chapters in the comp plan.

[2:18:50] I'm using those terms interchangeably.

[2:18:52] So each one of these elements is a chapter in the comp plan.

[2:18:57] You'll notice there are 42 goals. I'm a planner. So I just am adding. So I think I got this right there are 42 goals in the in the new

[2:19:07] Complan. There were 33 in the old. There are 162 policies. There were 123. So as we talked about before many of these policies were reworded combined.

[2:19:20] It even separated in some cases to better reflect the vision and direction of the city.

[2:19:25] The increasing goals and policies is largely due to the addition of a new requirement

[2:19:31] for a climate and resiliency element or chapter.

[2:19:35] You'll see at the very bottom there were seven goals and 17 policies added in relation to that.

[2:19:42] I'm not going to go through the goals and policies, but I do want to draw your attention to a few of them.

[2:19:47] And I'm just going to roll through a few of them really quick here.

[2:19:51] Economic development policy 18.

[2:19:53] Talks about positioning in the city and promoting sports tourism.

[2:19:57] Economic development policy 19.

[2:20:00] Go proactively ensuring industrial land is used to further the city's vision and add that can

[2:20:05] make value without over burning resources and infrastructure. Land use policy 17 talks about addressing

[2:20:12] emerging technologies such as battery energy storage and data centers. Transportation

[2:20:20] goal 5 talks about optimizing the roadway network to ensure efficient movement of people,

[2:20:29] continuing to pursue funding at federal and state levels

[2:20:32] for transportation infrastructure to foster economic

[2:20:35] development and improve quality of life.

[2:20:38] And housing goal number one talks about removing

[2:20:40] regulatory barriers to meet the needs of the community

[2:20:43] in alignment with community vision.

[2:20:45] So I just wanted to touch on those because there

[2:20:47] are ones that have been either added or amended

[2:20:50] through this update.

[2:20:52] I think reflect on the city's vision and help to further that.

[2:20:56] But with that, I'm happy to take any questions

[2:20:58] or we can walk through any of the goals and policies you'd like to.

[2:21:02] Well, I'd like to make a comment first.

[2:21:05] First of all, I really liked the way you presented this.

[2:21:08] And so I congratulate you on that.

[2:21:10] For me, it was very clear to have the goals

[2:21:13] and then the policies that support that goal.

[2:21:16] I'd like the language you use quite often using

[2:21:19] Valley Centric terminology.

[2:21:23] And just as an example of a couple things that I particularly liked.

[2:21:28] on the economic development you talked about a catalytic development projects, which is I had

[2:21:35] to look it up because I think in catalytic converters, and that didn't quite match. But it's

[2:21:43] a very interesting thing because it has three basic properties. So first the developer has

[2:21:52] realized that it's not one and done and I get my money as soon as the construction is done.

[2:21:58] They're in it for the long haul.

[2:22:00] Secondly, they talk about integrated development, all different kinds of housing, different

[2:22:04] businesses, and that kind of stuff.

[2:22:06] But thirdly, more interesting to me was that it needed the existing central employment or

[2:22:15] early employment in the development, so those jobs have to be there too.

[2:22:20] So I thought that was really a good process, and then you have things like, you know, you're consistent within it, so like you have one of the policies prior or ties public investment necessary to support catalytic economic development and redevelopment processes.

[2:22:38] You also talk about continued provision of natural gas services reliable energy source, which we've always supported.

[2:22:45] And talk about things like support of voluntary inclusion of common open space and public art in the new development.

[2:22:53] I mean you're not mandating it, you're encouraging it, which is something also that we want.

[2:22:58] So I found a great deal of it very positive and things that I could get behind.

[2:23:04] So I want to congratulate you on how you redid that and I really appreciate it.

[2:23:13] Other comments? Questions? Discussion?

[2:23:23] So I'm looking at the goals and policies and I really like your new versions as well, especially

[2:23:29] all the ones that you kind of highlighted there about sports tourism and the economic

[2:23:33] development and things of that nature.

[2:23:35] But I don't see a goal around tourism and economic development.

[2:23:41] Is that important?

[2:23:42] I think you've got some great policies in there, but I don't see the tourism side being kind

[2:23:47] goal and I don't I don't know if it's completely imperative for that, but it was just something

[2:23:53] that kind of highlighted to me that you had some great policy statements around economic

[2:23:57] development, but I didn't know if it would be important to have a goal around kind of

[2:24:02] that tourism or even we're so focused on, I mean our main rowing sources that retail and

[2:24:11] that retail engine that we have and it's almost like how do we, because tourism is a part

[2:24:16] of that retail engine so maybe it's something that kind of talks about how we, we also

[2:24:21] prioritize or want to protect and encourage the retail development,

[2:24:28] but I do really

[2:24:29] like what you've, how you've changed these goals for sure.

[2:24:42] Hey,

[2:24:44] you know, I asked to be excused from a council meeting or two to sit at my desk and

[2:24:51] recraft the goals and policies and so I felt like my years of experience here at the city

[2:24:58] would.

[2:24:59] Bow me well.

[2:25:00] Well, I'm making sure that these were a voice that you guys could appreciate.

[2:25:05] So I put quite a bit of time into that. I think the consultants appreciated it.

[2:25:10] But my main thing with them was just to make sure that we have a compliant plan at the end of the day,

[2:25:15] but this needs to have a tone that speaks for the city. So that was our objective for sure.

[2:25:21] That's my room, Merkel.

[2:25:23] I found the revisions very good. I appreciate that you did that.

[2:25:27] There are a lot of, there's a lot of strange language in the original version that you have taken out.

[2:25:34] The only one I'm still kind of stuck on is the CRG6 reduced per capita vehicle miles traveled

[2:25:41] through transportation improvements and neighborhood planning that minimizes

[2:25:48] that minimize traffic and enhanced local air quality.

[2:25:52] I think that this one is better than what we have in the active transportation plan by far

[2:25:57] because what we're talking about here is reducing traffic, which I think is important.

[2:26:03] Again, I just want to be careful that it's not one of our goals to tell our citizens

[2:26:09] how to travel.

[2:26:17] Yeah, I will just say that these were probably some of the more difficult goals and policies

[2:26:25] given some of the new state requirements.

[2:26:32] Why I'm a Kelly?

[2:26:34] Yeah, along that same vein,

[2:26:36] I'm going to see our G4,

[2:26:38] promote the transition to renewable energy sources.

[2:26:41] So I don't know how we would go about that necessarily,

[2:26:46] but I think that like you said,

[2:26:50] it's kind of hard to fulfill the state mandate

[2:26:52] and not basically have these principles there,

[2:26:57] these goals, but I just don't know that, you

[2:27:05] know, to what degree that we, it is a policy statement, and I just don't know if it's a policy statement that I'm 100% behind.

[2:27:20] These were actual goals and policies that had to get some kickback from our consultants on.

[2:27:26] So, that's the agenda there.

[2:27:29] They wanted to make sure that we were in compliance with some of the state's requirements.

[2:27:35] So, some of these are definitely coming straight down the pipeline.

[2:27:43] Thank you, Mayor.

[2:27:44] I just like to make a general comment.

[2:27:45] Council member, where could I hear I'm the CEO committee that deals most with growth management.

[2:27:51] These two individuals that we've set it out standing in job and they're staff.

[2:27:55] As Mike just mentioned, the compliance issue, we're not saying, okay, the state's get

[2:28:00] what to do, where we want to be in compliance, but as they've stated, continually, you know,

[2:28:04] it's documented in various ways. It's going to be our two-bar community, our city. It's

[2:28:11] how we're trying to do this. We don't want to put any roadblocks ahead, we're going to say,

[2:28:15] well, we're challenging them that we're not going to get to it that way. And I'm not going

[2:28:18] to be in the cases where I say that, we're not saying that at all. So I think they've really

[2:28:21] worked hard with the consultants, it's really good. Have some of this late, we do in there.

[2:28:26] We're going to stay, can't question that well. You're not going to be in compliance because

[2:28:29] I don't care if I'm saying this effectively as I could be, but we mean in compliance with us as having local control and they've done an outstanding job of this.

[2:28:39] I've heard feedback from other cities on the committee that we sit on, which represents the whole county area.

[2:28:45] The council member is working on, and it's all positive feedback.

[2:28:49] I just want to make sure that with everyone.

[2:28:52] Council Member Wait.

[2:28:55] Looking at the transportation goal.

[2:28:56] I know you have one policy around bridging the valley concepts, but I would really like to

[2:29:03] see us push a little harder on the Great Separations slash railroad consolidation.

[2:29:09] I think that that phrase railroad consolidation should be in here somewhere.

[2:29:19] I don't see the railroad consolidation, but the bridging the valley one is T-P20, but I just

[2:29:26] I think it should be a little more prominent around a elimination of those great separation projects and

[2:29:33] or elimination of the road rail conflicts.

[2:29:35] However, how do we want to say that?

[2:29:36] But I think it also needs to include the consolidation of the railroads as well.

[2:29:41] We're possible or however you want to phrase it,

[2:29:44] but I think as we transition a little bit more into pushing on the railroad

[2:29:48] in that direction, it would be good to put that language in our comprehensive plan.

[2:29:55] That's my memorial.

[2:29:58] Yeah, just as a quick aside, if you can send...

[2:30:00] May those state requirements on why those goals are required. I'd like to at least have that so that I can tell people.

[2:30:23] Okay. Anything else? No, what you need?

[2:30:28] Yeah. I appreciate it. I'll incorporate those things that council requested.

[2:30:34] We did have one more topic.

[2:30:38] We do.

[2:30:40] So, the Spokane County's UGA expansion proposal.

[2:30:51] So, as you know, the county does have quite a bit of control during this process when we're going to the update of our comprehensive plans and one of the things that the county has is the authority to adjust the urban growth areas.

[2:31:07] Now, the thing is is there's a very strong statement that they need to be coordinating with the cities as they look to adjust the urban growth areas.

[2:31:19] What I did here is this is the meeting that I listened to and I don't know if other council members had an opportunity to listen to it, but I just wanted to see what was said.

[2:31:29] And so, basically, on August 24th, the planning director Scott Chesney met with the Board

[2:31:35] of County Commissioners, and he was working through their environmental impacts team and

[2:31:42] getting comments from them on alternatives.

[2:31:45] They do have two alternatives, and I'll just kind of see if this kind of helps.

[2:31:51] So, alternative one was an infill focus.

[2:31:53] This is very typical when you're doing planning efforts, you'll have like a no action.

[2:31:57] and we had sort of a no-action, right,

[2:32:00] where essentially we were looking for in-fill.

[2:32:04] They have one as well.

[2:32:06] And so, I'll skip past this one a little bit.

[2:32:08] I think it's pretty, and in less counsel as questions,

[2:32:12] I mean, in-fill really just focuses

[2:32:13] on changing your zoning, up in your densities

[2:32:16] to get the population allocation that you need.

[2:32:21] So alternative two looks at UGA modifications

[2:32:24] and they're focusing on swaps.

[2:32:29] And so that said, right there at the top.

[2:32:32] And I think where we got concerned

[2:32:34] is we had a particular request.

[2:32:37] Centennial properties had that request as well.

[2:32:40] As council knows, we are very successful in the Northeast

[2:32:44] industrial area with our planned action ordinance.

[2:32:46] And we have built that entire area out.

[2:32:50] And so as we went through the planning exercise

[2:32:52] with Spokane County and the other jurisdictions, it became apparent that we did not have enough

[2:32:58] property for commercial and industrial growth. And so working and talking with Doug Yost,

[2:33:06] who represents Centennial Properties, this was our proposal to bring these properties into a

[2:33:12] accommodate our need for commercial and industrial growth. I believe Centennial Properties

[2:33:19] spoke to it more around mixed use in their proposal, but essentially what we ended up seeing

[2:33:26] through their presentation was this. And as you can see, right, we're missing a pretty substantial

[2:33:32] chunk here mainly along the river. And what's really interesting is they have a little tiny piece

[2:33:40] down there that says that they removed it. Yet I don't understand, I mean, it's not the whole piece,

[2:33:46] So, was that the, it just doesn't make any sense, this is the bottom line, and so we're very concerned about that.

[2:33:56] And I think another thing that we're concerned about, and we've seen the impacts of this, is they have proposals to expand the urban growth area on the southern and northern borders of our city.

[2:34:07] The Southern border, we've seen the impacts of the growth that's occurred there and what

[2:34:13] it's done to our transportation network, so that's very concerning.

[2:34:19] Essentially, right, they took this chunk out.

[2:34:24] And then these are the Southern portions that they're proposing to add.

[2:34:29] And this is the Northern portion that they're proposing to add one of them.

[2:34:33] And I think that might be all we had here.

[2:34:36] I did, if I remember correctly, we might be missing one that it's over by Jack Costell.

[2:34:43] Did you see it?

[2:34:44] Right there.

[2:34:44] Oh, sorry.

[2:34:46] There we go.

[2:34:46] There it is.

[2:34:47] Delray.

[2:34:49] And so they're proposing to add there.

[2:34:50] It's all kinds of transportation issues, all kinds of issues there.

[2:34:56] So I think what we were wanting to do.

[2:35:00] We did craft a letter for the mayor, but then we did share that letter with legal and legal bolstered up a little bit.

[2:35:10] I don't think we're quite prepared to have the mayor sign that letter right now just from a strategy standpoint.

[2:35:16] I wanted to talk with John and Eric about how we approach our comments to the county strategically.

[2:35:24] I think we're putting everything out there, right off the bat and I just want to be careful that we're being somewhat respectful and how we request that they add our peace back in and take these other pieces out for various reasons.

[2:35:40] But I think tonight and I'll let John speak to this. I think what we're wondering is in fact as Council want us to continue to craft that letter get it finalized for the mayor's signature and if so, we'll continue to work on that.

[2:35:54] Well, I think probably a higher level question is,

[2:35:59] it's the council interested in pursuing this.

[2:36:04] And before you see anything,

[2:36:06] I do need to provide you some background on this.

[2:36:09] So staff, as Mike said, were very diligently

[2:36:15] with our partners.

[2:36:17] So from colds real estate,

[2:36:20] spoken in county, environmental services on the sewer,

[2:36:23] It's all a day to water and building out the Northeast Industrial Area and setting up really just a model process for how to take 400 plus acres and develop them in the most efficient way possible.

[2:36:42] We had visions of continuing that to the east. We saw how popular this area is.

[2:36:47] is, frankly, for a lot of reasons, one, you're not out way out on the West Plane somewhere,

[2:36:54] you're central to this larger metropolitan area, which includes North Idaho.

[2:37:02] You have I90 to the south, you have SR-290, Trent to the north, you've got railroads running

[2:37:09] right through.

[2:37:10] a lot of access at the Industrial Park and a lot of existing companies, both Indian

[2:37:17] Industrial Park and actually West of the Industrial Park. You think about

[2:37:21] Solstice and Kaiser and the type of products that they produce and how they need

[2:37:29] to have supporting companies surrounding them that really feed into how

[2:37:34] everything is made in this area. We really do need to keep expanding and

[2:37:40] And from our perspective,

[2:37:45] the county's being very short-sighted on this particular area and

[2:37:51] trying to shift too much attention to the West Plains.

[2:37:56] So once we were finished with the existing area within the urban growth area, within our

[2:38:02] city limits, we did work on how to best set this up from a growth standpoint, from a planning

[2:38:10] standpoint. So for the last couple of years we've been working with DOT, we've been working

[2:38:17] with the city of Libri Lake on studying the transportation needs and the impacts to a variety

[2:38:24] of different areas out here, one of them being the ultimate development of these pieces of property.

[2:38:32] In addition to others within Libri Lake and see how that all functions. So we have a very good idea

[2:38:38] for what transportation improvement projects need to be done, we know what cost those are,

[2:38:45] we know how to allocate development fees, impact fees on those, and we're working through

[2:38:52] finalizing that with the City of the Liberty Lake and DOT, but we've also worked

[2:38:58] with county's environmental services on providing sewer to this area as well, and that seems

[2:39:04] to be an area of question, or at least the planning director from Spokane brought up,

[2:39:10] is this going to be served from the county or from Liberty Lake Water and sewer district,

[2:39:15] from our historical discussions with the county, they felt that they would serve this area

[2:39:24] at least a Harvard road. So therefore, we recommended that the city invests some of the

[2:39:34] sewer line all the way to the sea limits on Buckeye Avenue, which we did a number of years ago.

[2:39:41] So there's been a lot of pre-planning on this and I just want to make sure you all understand

[2:39:46] that this unlike, I'll pick on the area to the north that says NR2 up there, so this is the

[2:39:58] Don't worry.

[2:40:00] Project, Highland Estates, a very old development in the county. They're looking to expand the portion of it.

[2:40:10] I have had one on one conversations with Mr. Chesney about the development of that piece of property and one of the big issues out there.

[2:40:21] And we fought this on the Barker Great Separation Projects with the fourth leg and everybody

[2:40:27] talking about, you know, adding a segment onto the roundabout to serve this neighborhood

[2:40:34] and get people safer approach into the neighborhood.

[2:40:40] That's part of the solution, but it doesn't meet the fire departments requirements

[2:40:46] for secondary access.

[2:40:47] And so when you look back through the historical record of that development, there needs to be another way in, but from the north, and that is going to be extremely problematic to do.

[2:41:02] And then therefore, this is already a fatal flaw in the county bringing this into the UGA. And then if we don't have it on the map,

[2:41:12] that if we were to show you a map of the existing urban growth areas along SR27, and Mike

[2:41:20] may be jumped to the piece that you did have to south right here.

[2:41:25] So the areas in blue, that's existing UGA, the green would be expansion areas.

[2:41:31] And on the face of it, maybe that makes sense.

[2:41:34] But one of the things that was interesting last week when Council Member Wick and I met

[2:41:39] with Commissioner Brooks, who's the chair of the county commissioners, she didn't understand

[2:41:47] that we were not interested in annexing any of this stuff.

[2:41:52] It is hillside development very difficult to maintain.

[2:41:56] The infrastructure is very questionable from a standpoint of how it was put in and who

[2:42:06] on the stormwater side of things, there are springs all over the place here that tend to

[2:42:13] undermine the infrastructure, which then leads to a lot of expense for us.

[2:42:19] So, from my perspective, I would never recommend to the Council to annex any of this

[2:42:24] information or any of this area, plus along SR27,

[2:42:31] especially crossing over and

[2:42:33] painted hills and all that area there. This is not urban area. When I think about building

[2:42:42] an area that is easy to get in and out of development is easier to do, hillside development

[2:42:50] is not something that I think is easy to develop. I think there's areas here if the county

[2:42:58] really interested in doing swaps will remove some of this stuff and focus it on areas that

[2:43:06] really could be developed and really could benefit. And this is where I think the county's being a

[2:43:12] bit short-sighted here is anything that is developed here or where we want it to be on the cold's

[2:43:20] real estate properties that really benefits us and the county because they get quite a bit of revenue

[2:43:28] offer that as well. And so I wanted to kind of give you that context but I think first

[2:43:35] we really need to know is this where the council views growth at as our expansion area.

[2:43:51] I'm sorry.

[2:43:54] I wholeheartedly believe that that's the future for growth for us.

[2:44:00] However, I feel like there's also a process flaw.

[2:44:05] Scott Chesney has presented this to the commissioners and in my opinion, completely bypassed

[2:44:11] the process of getting any input from any city around the county by not having a going to

[2:44:16] the steering community of elected officials.

[2:44:19] So if we are interested in not showing our cards right away on demanding what properties we want

[2:44:27] and we at least need to send them a letter

[2:44:30] objecting to the fact that they even had

[2:44:32] a commissioner discussion or presentation

[2:44:35] without any input from any of the cities.

[2:44:38] And so I feel like that should be,

[2:44:40] because also in our discussion with Commissioner Brooks,

[2:44:42] she didn't realize that none of the cities had any input

[2:44:45] or that we hadn't even seen it before it went to them.

[2:44:48] So I think they need to be aware

[2:44:50] that their planning department didn't run

[2:44:53] through the process that it should have gone through.

[2:44:57] I also think that one of the things that I remember.

[2:45:00] Governor's urban reserve designation. And this property is designated as urban reserve. So, in my opinion, the first step that should be read in is the property that you designated as the reserve property that was supposed to be first in the next round.

[2:45:15] And there's no mention of that anywhere throughout the county's proposal. So, I think that could be another key thing that we should really push on them to say, hey, you need to focus on the urban reserve areas before you go to non reserve area.

[2:45:30] is, but then be able to encourage us to even go further than what we've highlighted here

[2:45:35] to say, here's where you should be looking at beyond this tenure, in a highlighted area

[2:45:41] that we should be saying that should be the next urban reserve kind of a phase two for

[2:45:47] the future for when this builds out, which was hit triggers that expand that area without

[2:45:52] having to wait 10 years. So kind of preplanning that and also encouraging, because a lot of

[2:45:59] cities have joint planning areas. We do not have a joint planning area with the county. Maybe this

[2:46:05] area should be designated as a joint planning area moving forwards. That way we can start to plan

[2:46:10] these more before the tenure part period is up. So I think those are kind of some of the main ones

[2:46:19] for me. But I also, I don't think there should be a hole. I mean, if this does give about in which I

[2:46:27] think that it should be. I don't know that you would leave a little neighborhood area outside the

[2:46:33] UGA that's completely surrounded on all four sides. So I would make sure that we kind of talk about

[2:46:39] as a contiguous area.

[2:46:43] Happy to hear. I can go ahead and tell some of our work 100%. I'm still

[2:46:49] don't mind me for nominating me for the chair of that committee. You're welcome. And it's very

[2:46:58] the process carried forward and have side-step committee. We're not the only one that has

[2:47:03] frustration. There's other small towns and cities. And when you just leave that process

[2:47:09] behind and say we're going to do it this way, that's absolutely got the proper way to do it.

[2:47:14] And I would say more, but I feel strongly about that. And it affects the whole county, not just us,

[2:47:20] but especially all the work we put into it. And they knew at a time when it goes where it's not like

[2:47:25] we haven't talked about it as city manager,

[2:47:28] oh, I'm gonna set for a couple of years.

[2:47:30] It wasn't a surprise to them that we have our map,

[2:47:33] and they've seen it.

[2:47:34] So I really disappointed in that,

[2:47:35] and I knew we would hold our duty to send the letter,

[2:47:38] and I knew it could tell some of our work's comments.

[2:47:44] Are you looking for it?

[2:47:45] I think this is very helpful,

[2:47:48] and from a perspective to council members that sit

[2:47:53] on the steering committee,

[2:47:55] I think that's, we can craft a letter starting with the process

[2:48:00] objections.

[2:48:02] Starting with our disappointment that they didn't include the entire area,

[2:48:10] and we're towards that piece.

[2:48:12] And then we can have a draft ready for you to review on Tuesday night's next week's meeting.

[2:48:19] That's remember?

[2:48:20] I completely agree that the process thing is the first thing that we should look at.

[2:48:25] I mean, it's a very obvious thing, plus it'll be standing up for a lot of our, you know,

[2:48:30] sister and brother cities out there to stand on their own two feet about their own issues.

[2:48:35] I just wanted to clarify for people who might be watching from home.

[2:48:39] I don't think we really, I know we've talked about it before, but I don't think we really

[2:48:43] specified what this means to us because it's not like this is immediately going to become part

[2:48:51] of

[2:48:58] annex into the city or not?

[2:49:00] Right, so this is like, it's just we, we want to prepare this area for growth and development

[2:49:05] and it's in our interest because it's right on the border of our cities, so this isn't, that's

[2:49:10] kind of what we're talking about here, we're not saying that we're telling the county that we're

[2:49:16] annexing this tomorrow, that's not the issue.

[2:49:21] That property is not able to be annexed unless it's in the urban growth area.

[2:49:25] Right, so this is like the first step, but again,

[2:49:27] It's a step in the development direction and then we'll make those decisions later if it's something that needs to happen, but it's common sense that

[2:49:35] we would want such development to exist in this area. I also agree with Council Member Wake that

[2:49:42] leaving a strange x-clay of above the river is probably a bad idea. It's just going to cause headaches.

[2:49:55] Are we done? No, I have one more. Sorry.

[2:49:58] Okay.

[2:49:59] So just...

[2:50:00] Two other thoughts. So there's other parcels that are not being talked about adding into this year's plan.

[2:50:07] But there are already in the UGA boundaries. So there are talk about swaps which should probably take out some of the areas that are already in there.

[2:50:14] And so I can think of one kind of north of Welsley even long for us.

[2:50:19] So not the cassette property that's talked about being expanded, but there's one house that was added in there. It doesn't make sense to that.

[2:50:26] So I would also include some of those to come out.

[2:50:30] I would also as if we do start to think about a future urban reserve.

[2:50:35] This school district has property there that is not on any of the county maps.

[2:50:40] And a school district, if we do start to develop a lot in that district, can't build a school

[2:50:45] unless their properties inside the UGA do do a new wonderful state law.

[2:50:50] So it might be wise to encourage the county to really think about that because that parcel won't get activated

[2:50:57] It'll be another parcel that just gets left out because they can't build it unless it's in the UGA boundaries

[2:51:04] And then I would also consider plants fairy now that it's going to be something that will be developed

[2:51:11] But it makes a weird anomaly for everything north of south of Welsley on the other side of plants fairy is in the UGA

[2:51:20] and everything east of plants for South of Aussies in the UGA.

[2:51:24] But you have this kind of hole in plants for you that really should be designated

[2:51:29] part of the UGA as well.

[2:51:31] Even though there's probably some sort of category that you can say it's not developed

[2:51:35] but we'll land, so it shouldn't count towards an analysis, but if there's a way,

[2:51:40] I think it should be included as well.

[2:51:42] But, you know, to Councilmember Wood's point, on this particular map, we see kind of that

[2:51:52] purple rectangle going up.

[2:51:55] So what Councilmember Wood could's talking about is East Valley School District has.

[2:51:59] I think 30 plus acres is in it's just adjoining that, between the purple and Campbell Road.

[2:52:16] We can adjourn.

[2:52:18] Move to adjourn.

[2:52:20] All those in favor?

[2:52:21] Hi.

[2:52:22] Opposed?

[2:52:23] We are adjourned.

[2:52:26] Good comments.

[2:52:28] Full of opinions on that.

Special Council Meeting

Agenda

Transcript