[1:16] and I'll turn things over to Mr. Ber.

[1:19] >> Yeah, of course I sent you guys a

[1:20] memorandum gee a long time ago kind of

[1:23] outlining what's before you. Uh what you

[1:25] have is a balanced budget proposal. U

[1:28] not a lot of changes in revenue

[1:31] structure. The one significant thing is

[1:32] the bole. We're looking to

[1:35] go up 5 cents. The current rate is 15

[1:39] cents per $100 of gross sales on

[1:42] businesses.

[1:45] Is it a million dollars currently? I

[1:46] can't remember. The change we're

[1:48] proposing is to raise it to 20 cents per

[1:51] 100 on businesses with a gross sales of

[1:53] 10 million.

[1:54] >> So right now it's 250,000 and up. It's a

[1:57] gross receipts tax up to 2 million and

[1:59] then a higher one at 10 million. So this

[2:01] just raises the 10 million.

[2:04] >> And we'll get into this again. This is

[2:06] your day to ask whatever questions, have

[2:08] conversations you want to. One thing

[2:09] I'll tell you is in the current year,

[2:11] what we've been doing with the B pole is

[2:14] kind of ramping that up to get back

[2:16] close to where we were at the time of

[2:19] reversion. Uh those revenues are

[2:21] performing very well in the current

[2:23] year.

[2:24] >> And we're projecting that if you adopted

[2:27] this increase, it would add another

[2:29] 40,000. Y

[2:32] >> let's let's let's pin $750,000 in our

[2:35] head as we have all these discussions.

[2:37] We know that revenue goes away in two

[2:40] cycles.

[2:42] We are trying to make headway there and

[2:44] we a lot of what we're doing is

[2:45] strategic to deal with that. We're

[2:48] making a little bit of progress but not

[2:50] much. That that 750 is still in

[2:52] operating here. We talked about that

[2:55] with the departments as well. But we do

[2:58] have a funded contingency.

[3:01] We're not using prior year reserves, but

[3:03] that contingency

[3:05] could be tied up with uh carryover

[3:08] costs, debt payments,

[3:11] and those sort of things. Now, the other

[3:13] thing I want to bring to your attention

[3:14] is one of the strategies deals with the

[3:16] transfer station. Getting out of the

[3:19] commercial solid waste service was the

[3:21] right decision financially and we're

[3:23] seeing the benefits of that already. In

[3:25] fact, one of the things in this budget

[3:27] is solid waste fund is making money and

[3:30] transferring the general fund. I don't

[3:32] know when that's happened

[3:34] >> ever. I don't think so.

[3:36] >> Okay. We still own a transfer station

[3:39] that we don't need. So, want to talk to

[3:41] you about that. We're negotiating with

[3:43] somebody about a potential franchise,

[3:45] but one way or the other, we probably

[3:47] just need to get out of that because

[3:49] we're subsidizing debt service. The

[3:51] other part of that is as county

[3:53] taxpayers, we have access to excellent

[3:56] services provided by the county that we

[3:59] are paying for. So that truly is a

[4:02] duplication of services and it's

[4:04] something that we are paying. So one of

[4:07] the things we want to talk to you about,

[4:08] it's not really reflected here because

[4:09] we don't know what the franchise is

[4:11] going to look like, but we would like to

[4:13] go ahead and plan to shut that down

[4:15] >> and get the savings for that. So that's

[4:18] not really included here in something we

[4:21] can talk about where we can chip away at

[4:22] that simple thing.

[4:23] >> No, I think we should in that I've said

[4:25] all along anything that we're

[4:27] duplicating that possibly someone else

[4:30] can do better or the same uh at a same

[4:33] or less cost we need to talk about and

[4:35] that's one of them. Of course, there are

[4:37] some uh repercussions there also, but we

[4:40] need to look at pros and cons and figure

[4:42] out what is best for the town to move

[4:44] forward and long term, not just short

[4:47] term. Long term, the 750K is one of

[4:50] those things, but I like to think we

[4:52] have a plan to address that when that

[4:54] time comes. And u I'm I'm going to say

[4:57] leave it at that and uh leave it to

[5:00] staff to figure that one out, which I

[5:01] think you are.

[5:02] >> And we'll refer to that several times

[5:04] during the day as it comes up.

[5:05] >> Yeah. Yes. So any budget

[5:07] >> other thing just a few other things

[5:08] before you all get started. What

[5:09] whatever it is you want to do. Um

[5:12] >> electric's going to be its own

[5:13] discussion. We've restructured the

[5:15] budget to kind of isolate costs as much

[5:18] as possible electric to try to present a

[5:21] true cost of

[5:24] what our customers are paying and all

[5:27] the operations and all the percentages.

[5:30] And we've eliminated the transfer from

[5:31] the electric fund to the general fund,

[5:33] but we've included what we call payment

[5:36] in lie of taxes calculation.

[5:39] And that's based on what we would

[5:41] estimate

[5:43] if the electric company were a private

[5:45] utility within our boundaries and we

[5:47] were able to tax them. We're estimating

[5:50] that we would see over $500,000 in tax

[5:52] revenue if they were separate. So that's

[5:56] this budget is built on that isolating

[5:59] those costs, restructuring the revenue

[6:01] flow because and we you can talk about

[6:04] this even if we were to get out of the

[6:06] electric business and that needs to if

[6:08] you're even going to consider that and

[6:09] that needs to be a very long

[6:12] wellthoughtout discussion.

[6:14] We'd still have some revenues. It also

[6:17] involve a massive restructuring of the

[6:19] entire town operation. So you're willing

[6:22] to go there today or start that

[6:23] conversation. I'm I'm

[6:25] >> Well, let me I don't mean to keep

[6:28] interjecting here, but I would say on

[6:30] those lines,

[6:32] >> it's kind of like the comp plan. You

[6:34] need to look 5 10 years down the road to

[6:36] see where we want to be or what we want

[6:38] to continue doing. and and not that I

[6:42] would like to see that happen because

[6:44] this this electric electric department

[6:46] is longstanding and has proven itself

[6:49] how valuable it is but times change

[6:51] situations change and as we see rates

[6:54] and transmission costs change so that is

[6:57] one thing that I would welcome the

[6:58] discussion not that we are intending to

[7:01] do it but we do do need to probably look

[7:04] at that as as what I call a vision

[7:06] something that we could envision down

[7:08] the

[7:09] Could I also add just to that s is the I

[7:13] think that we have to have the

[7:14] discussion on levels of service and

[7:16] other things as well.

[7:18] >> So

[7:18] >> yeah, it won't go along with what you're

[7:20] saying.

[7:21] >> Yeah. So I just got a few of things that I'm aware of and talking to

[7:24] some of you and talking to staff. Now

[7:26] within the electric fund

[7:28] or administrative process, we're talking

[7:30] about absorbing credit card fees which

[7:32] would come at a cost currently

[7:34] calculated about 250,000 and that is

[7:36] updated in here. Right.

[7:38] But it's 500,000 in this one. So we

[7:40] actually have $250,000

[7:44] » that would again and that's a matter of

[7:46] practice. U different places do it

[7:48] different ways. Um that we did that in a

[7:52] meeting with one of our large utility

[7:53] customers that pays by credit card and

[7:55] they asked us to consider it. So we've

[7:57] included it for discussion. Um

[8:00] going back uh one thing I you'll see too

[8:03] you'll see some things over time that

[8:05] have increased. One is the police

[8:07] department budget and we'll speak to

[8:08] that. A lot of that relates to the fact

[8:10] that we do things differently in our

[8:12] hiring and management processes.

[8:15] We do not really compete at the entry

[8:18] level in terms of salary. In fact, we're

[8:21] probably out of market on that. However,

[8:24] if you come here and work, we do offer

[8:26] career ladders and we offer people

[8:28] opportunities to pursue different

[8:29] certifications and develop different

[8:31] skills which costs money. There's

[8:34] training involved. There's also risk

[8:36] involved. We can train them up and they

[8:37] can go elsewhere. But uh what we're

[8:40] finding in practice is we now when we

[8:43] have a vacancy at the officers level, we

[8:46] actually have a wait list of people

[8:47] wanting to come work for us. So, but

[8:50] we're paying for that. So, you know, we

[8:53] acknowledge that that is a a premium

[8:55] level of service that we're trying to

[8:57] provide the community, but it costs

[8:58] money,

[8:58] >> right?

[8:59] >> Also, um parking enforcement may come up

[9:02] too. Um

[9:03] >> it it will. Great. We'd love to have a

[9:06] talk. We need to have all kinds of

[9:08] conversations about that.

[9:10] If you want to fund a position, that's

[9:12] great. We'll just have to find a way to

[9:13] do it. And I don't want to get ahead of

[9:14] you.

[9:16] >> Also, just want a couple of well

[9:18] relatively minor things, but they have

[9:20] impact. We continue to talk about

[9:23] management of our property up by Stony

[9:25] Creek Reservoir and to pursue

[9:28] conservation of that property and ways

[9:30] that that could generate revenue. Now,

[9:32] that's a complicated discussion and the

[9:35] details of it are involve some legal

[9:37] things and some negotiations and would

[9:39] probably have to occur in close session.

[9:41] And for anybody who's watching this

[9:42] later, it's not that we're hiding

[9:43] anything. It's just when we go to

[9:45] negotiate on behalf of the public, our

[9:48] hands are already tied behind our back.

[9:50] So, if we're completely upfront, we

[9:51] don't get a good deal.

[9:52] >> Right?

[9:52] >> And I hate to say it that way, but

[9:54] that's as blunt as I can be.

[9:56] >> So, that's we're having those

[9:57] conversations as well. Um, also kind of

[10:00] down in the weeds, some of the issues

[10:02] we've had with our electric utility of

[10:04] vault billing. We had an issue with our

[10:07] mailing service. We may have another

[10:08] current mailing service issue. So,

[10:12] we can talk about a change there, but it

[10:15] would involve more effort on the part of

[10:17] staff. In fact, one of the things we can

[10:19] talk about is buying a postage machine.

[10:21] And I'll tell you, I know how to run it,

[10:23] so I'll do it myself if I have to.

[10:25] >> Well, people can be trained. someone

[10:27] else can be trained to back you up.

[10:29] >> So, those are in addition to my memo I

[10:32] sent you way back when, those are things

[10:34] we've talked about. The staff has been

[10:36] great. We've had a committee review

[10:37] this. I feel like it's been a good

[10:40] process for them to understand how

[10:42] things work, too. But

[10:45] those those are the introductory

[10:47] comments I had. Basically, we're kind of

[10:50] at your disposal today. And my thought

[10:52] is you guys can talk this through and see where it leads.

[10:57] >> Where do y'all want to start in the

[10:58] beginning and move through it or how do

[10:59] y'all do you want to do it? You want to

[11:01] start what's

[11:04] >> okay?

[11:07] You want to get through the prelimin

[11:09] areas and go to

[11:15] » I don't think we need to do line and

[11:16] line either. I thought we just

[11:18] >> Yeah, just

[11:20] all right. Where do you want? Where do

[11:21] y'all want to start?

[11:24] 22 or positions or

[11:27] what say you Dave?

[11:29] >> I just had a I mean, first of all,

[11:32] thanks to the staff for putting this

[11:35] together. I mean, it's been it's been

[11:36] really helpful. And then just being able

[11:39] to ask questions. You provided enough,

[11:42] you know, enough lead time to for me at

[11:44] least to get questions asked and

[11:46] answered. And I appreciate y'all doing

[11:49] that. I just wanted to note that again

[11:52] it uh like in your financial piece on

[11:55] page 62 it does talk about the town

[11:58] having limited revenue resources

[12:00] dedicate dedicated to capital investment

[12:02] and that's that's been a concern of mine

[12:05] just I mean this is just kind of lead to

[12:07] lead up into a discussion later on but

[12:10] you know that we don't have really a

[12:13] funded capital improvement plan so

[12:15] anything we do would be uh debt service

[12:20] I'm sorry, Dan. And now I forgot to

[12:21] mention with the reservoir discussion,

[12:24] you also identified a list of potential

[12:26] properties that could be identified as

[12:28] surplus that could be marketed. I

[12:29] haven't forgotten about that and Mike

[12:31] did the title research. So, our thought

[12:33] was we get the bigger issue with the

[12:35] reservoir kind of squared away before we

[12:37] present that to you, but I can present

[12:41] that to you. The thought is if there are

[12:43] properties that could be surplus, we

[12:45] could sell them and dedicate that

[12:47] onetime revenue towards onetime capital.

[12:49] So, didn't mean to interrupt, but one

[12:52] app.

[12:52] >> Thank you. A quick note, in this year's

[12:54] budget, we do have $260,000

[12:57] of cash funding for capital.

[13:02] » We're looking at doing

[13:04] service.

[13:09] And then Barb mentioned the 750. We all

[13:12] know that coming up. I I there's one

[13:13] thing I wanted to ask a question on

[13:15] though on the on page 73 and about the pie chart.

[13:22] >> Yes.

[13:22] >> Um it shows operating at 60% personnel

[13:26] at 23%. And I appreciated the note on

[13:29] the next page, but if you take like you

[13:32] said the electrical fund out of that

[13:34] operating

[13:36] personnel and operating about 5050,

[13:40] >> it should be and actually personnel may

[13:41] jump up higher. It's just purchase power

[13:43] costs such a large number that on this

[13:46] chart it really drives the operating

[13:48] percentage

[13:49] >> because my point would be that I'm not

[13:52] about anything about personnel but I

[13:54] know again from previous experience that

[13:57] As healthcare costs and everything go

[13:59] up, the projection for personnel is

[14:01] going to be taking a large percentage of

[14:03] our budget. And so our percentage of

[14:06] operating cap capital will go down.

[14:10] Trying to lay the groundwork because

[14:12] I've got some issues about revenue that

[14:16] we need to talk about. So, okay, that's

[14:19] my introductory stuff, too. So, I'll

[14:21] shut up now.

[14:22] >> No, you won't.

[14:24] >> I won't. No, I won't. You know me too

[14:26] well. Keep on going.

[14:27] >> Okay.

[14:29] >> What else? Anybody else have spot seeds

[14:32] they want to plant?

[14:37] » Also neglect to me. It is another

[14:40] operation in the current year that we've

[14:41] seen great inflation and

[14:44] additional cost over what we budgeted. A

[14:47] lot of that relates to guidance from our

[14:50] insurance about our management of of

[14:53] security issues. the fact that well we

[14:57] can't really neglect those. It's one of

[14:59] those things where when we are over in

[15:01] one area of any budget fund we talk

[15:04] about this in our staff meetings we let

[15:06] the department as though we have to move

[15:07] some things around and Versa back in the

[15:10] fall identified some things we need to

[15:12] do to improve our cyber security. So we

[15:15] did it and we

[15:17] kind of talked to other departments

[15:18] about shoring that up to move forward.

[15:20] But information technology is another

[15:22] call center that's little problematic

[15:24] right now.

[15:25] >> I can understand it.

[15:27] >> It's always changing.

[15:28] >> I'm going to go ahead and disclose that

[15:30] since the proposed budget, we found the

[15:32] need to add another 15,000 in each fund

[15:35] for another service. Essentially, it

[15:37] would be an offsite backup that's based.

[15:41] So, if we were ever attacked, we've had

[15:44] a secondary server essentially to just

[15:47] prop it up and continue operating.

[15:50] I'm sorry I didn't neglect a big one

[15:52] that's hanging out there and that's

[15:53] collective bargaining legislation. Um

[15:55] the reason I dropped it is

[15:58] the governor

[16:00] did not sign the proposal by the general

[16:02] assembly to allow collective bargaining

[16:05] but looks like the general assembly sent

[16:07] it back to her and said give her the

[16:09] ultimatum of you have to veto it or sign

[16:11] it if she signs it. My understanding was

[16:14] her proposal was to kind of defer it for

[16:16] a couple of years, which would be

[16:17] helpful to us. If she signs it, we've

[16:20] got to prepare for that process.

[16:25] >> Well, and I wanted to follow up. That's

[16:27] not going to become that's not going to

[16:29] hit till FY28 or FY29 most likely as a

[16:34] personnel cost. I have to admit it's

[16:37] going to be a legal cost in FY28.

[16:40] And so you got because frankly just

[16:42] negotiating collective bargaining

[16:44] agreements against monster labor lawyers

[16:47] is difficult. Uh but that's something that's coming. And so

[16:54] when you think ahead about the five-year

[16:57] swing of how things go, we don't know

[16:59] that people will unionize because

[17:03] um frankly your employees are happy and

[17:06] happy employees tend to either not to

[17:09] unionize or if they do unionize it tends

[17:12] to be a smooth, relatively easy and

[17:14] reasonable CBA negotiation, but you

[17:18] don't know that for sure. Um the other

[17:21] thing is that large construction

[17:23] contracts are going to be subject to

[17:24] some prevailing wage provisions.

[17:27] So we can expect the cost of

[17:29] construction probably to go up a little

[17:31] bit. Given the cost of construction over

[17:34] the last two or three well really since

[17:37] the beginning of co 21 maybe 2021

[17:42] construction contractors have been

[17:43] paying prevailing wage for the most part

[17:45] for this region anyway. But we don't

[17:49] know what wages are again going to do

[17:52] over the next 5year period. And so as

[17:55] you think about construction, you might

[17:56] see it go up over the next five years to

[17:59] be having to deal with prevailing wage

[18:02] >> as well uh against other things. And the

[18:06] reason why I mentioned that is is

[18:09] uh we had I had another client who had

[18:12] English construction do some

[18:14] construction for them and for federal

[18:16] grant reasons they needed to have

[18:18] compliance with um prevailing wage and

[18:22] that came into the deal pretty late in

[18:24] the contract and it had almost no impact

[18:26] on the costs because English was already

[18:28] paying its people essentially prevailing

[18:30] wage. But again, you don't know that

[18:32] that's going to continue to be the case

[18:34] over the next five years.

[18:36] >> Yeah.

[18:38] >> And I Mike, you said it very nicely.

[18:41] There's there's can be a very negotiable

[18:44] good side there and also a very rough

[18:47] side. I I appalach where I work was

[18:51] union. So I dealt with that my entire

[18:53] career. So I've been in on union

[18:56] grievances, uh, negotiations and all

[18:58] that. So, some for the most part went

[19:00] very smoothly and a lot of back and

[19:02] forth, but there can be some that can be

[19:05] rough. But, uh,

[19:06] >> let me note, we're not flying completely

[19:07] blind on this. Mr. Wagner actually in

[19:09] his prior career had direct involvement

[19:11] in a union situation.

[19:13] >> Yeah.

[19:14] >> With my HR certification and my

[19:16] education, I've been trained. I know

[19:17] what the process is. And I've had family

[19:18] members who were in the mine workers

[19:21] union. So process-wise, we

[19:25] know what to expect, but the outcomes of

[19:27] the process are

[19:28] >> Can I just add that the IBW is already

[19:31] here, so they're they're already

[19:34] lurking. Let me put it that way.

[19:36] >> We we're the missing piece,

[19:37] >> right?

[19:38] >> Yeah, I know that that has been said in

[19:40] years back,

[19:42] >> but but you're right. That's something

[19:44] we've got to talk about and take

[19:46] seriously because it's on the horizon,

[19:48] you know.

[19:50] >> Yeah. Next year's budget's going to be

[19:51] complicated already, just FYI.

[19:57] What else?

[20:00] I'm going to have my little piece here

[20:04] through each department. I'm going to

[20:06] come from a different perspective, okay?

[20:08] I'm going to in my own way challenge

[20:10] each department head, okay? So, I don't

[20:12] want anything to be taken personal, but

[20:15] when I started out here, and this is the

[20:17] way I I think and the way I view things.

[20:21] I look at on page uh 37, the town

[20:23] manager. Okay? And each department had a

[20:28] department mission, mission, and the

[20:30] department vision,

[20:33] which is good.

[20:35] You have the mission, but then you have

[20:37] the vision. So the vision is a separate

[20:41] thing. Sometimes they get blurred, but a

[20:44] vision is something that should have a

[20:46] measurement tool involved. You ought to

[20:49] be able to measure that in some capacity

[20:52] to say, "Okay, I can get this done in

[20:55] two months, 3 months, 6 months, or long

[20:58] term." It's kind of very similar to comp

[21:00] plan where the comp plan has things laid

[21:02] out to where they're going to be done in

[21:05] this amount of time or two years, three

[21:07] years, four years, whatever.

[21:10] And and

[21:11] I know from my experience, I had goals I

[21:14] had from year to year, budget to budget,

[21:16] review to review that I was expected to

[21:21] get done or have a very good reason why

[21:24] it wasn't done and monthto monthth also.

[21:26] But what I'm saying is is in my view the department mission and of course I

[21:33] think in ways of cars and engines the

[21:37] mission is the engine in the vehicle

[21:41] that runs it. The vision is the road

[21:44] map. That's where you want to be or

[21:47] where you want to go. But also needs a

[21:50] driver to get it there. The car's just

[21:53] not going to go by itself. So the

[21:56] department heads and town manager, you

[21:58] all are the drivers of this vision as to

[22:01] where you want to go, what you want to

[22:03] get done in your department. So as we go

[22:06] through all this, I'm going to probably

[22:08] point out some things. Um, and and I

[22:11] look at the town manager again, page 37,

[22:15] goals and objectives,

[22:17] page 38, measurement tools right there

[22:20] as to how he's going to measure this. So

[22:23] I'm coming from that angle in this uh

[22:26] discussion or this budget session

[22:28] because

[22:30] I'm a resultoriented person. I'll just

[22:32] you've heard me say that and I think the

[22:35] general public expects results. So we

[22:38] have got to show results. A lot of

[22:41] departments do but there are things that

[22:44] stand out and we have to come up with a

[22:47] way to get these done. And by putting

[22:50] something on paper is great, but you got

[22:52] to have measurement tools to get it

[22:54] done. Like if I say to to to Ann, okay,

[22:57] in three months, could you come back to

[22:59] council and give an update on what

[23:01] you've done? Sure. Or or or tell us why

[23:05] you couldn't do it or just let Bart know

[23:08] you're not ready, whatever. But it's

[23:11] called in simple terms accountability.

[23:16] You all are the leaders of this town.

[23:19] Leadership is what it's about. So,

[23:22] you've got to take that on. Take it by

[23:24] the the horns, whatever you want to call

[23:27] it, and move it forward. Make it happen.

[23:30] So I I'm leaving you all with this aud

[23:45] saying what have you done for me lately?

[23:47] So again when I look at page 38 the the

[23:51] town manager has put out a way as he's

[23:54] what he's going to do how he's going to

[23:56] measure it and what is expected of him.

[23:59] Now, some things you're going to

[24:01] achieve, some things you're not, but you

[24:03] ought to be able to say why it was not.

[24:05] Like in electric

[24:07] department case, a lot of times it's

[24:09] weather related. But each department

[24:12] should have goals, objectives, and

[24:15] measurement tools, a way to measure it

[24:17] because that's what the citizens see.

[24:20] That's what they either like or complain

[24:23] about. I'm not seeing anything done like

[24:26] electric rates. Well, we know how that

[24:28] goes. But we're doing the best we can on

[24:30] that. So, we just get beat up and go on.

[24:34] We're used to it. But, nonetheless, I'm planting that seed. So, as we go

[24:40] through different departments, I'm

[24:42] probably going to discuss that in more

[24:43] detail.

[24:45] So, that's my little spiel.

[24:47] >> And I agree with you 100%. We need to

[24:49] have measurable goals so they know

[24:51] somebody knows where they're going

[24:52] because if we don't have goals,

[24:54] >> there you can't measure them.

[24:55] >> That's right. you know,

[24:56] >> you you're going to go down the wrong

[24:58] end dead end road. You don't know where

[24:59] you're going.

[25:00] >> Yeah.

[25:01] >> It'd be like um you know, the electric

[25:04] department saying keeping all of our

[25:06] customers happy. You really can't

[25:07] measure that. So, that would be

[25:10] >> that we have to have something, you

[25:12] know, that we can measure that we can

[25:14] keep track of.

[25:16] >> Can we can we measure that by how many

[25:17] people come to the meetings and

[25:18] complain?

[25:21] >> Nobody shows up, everybody's happy,

[25:22] right? or or or the number of complaints

[25:25] compared to the total number of

[25:27] customers.

[25:27] >> Well, that would be Yeah, you can

[25:28] measure it that way. You can measure

[25:30] measurable way. I mean, it's probably

[25:32] very

[25:32] >> Yeah. And the way you'd write that goal

[25:34] is decrease complaints by a certain

[25:36] percentage or something like that.

[25:38] >> And and you're spot on, Todd. And that

[25:40] that's what I'm getting at. Those are

[25:42] the things you work on to improve on.

[25:44] Those are your goals that okay, once you

[25:47] reach that, what's your next goal? You

[25:48] keep on challenging yourself in your own

[25:51] way.

[25:52] >> So, that appreciate you saying that.

[25:56] >> No, I I I really like what you said. I

[25:58] think that's a great, you know,

[26:00] >> Yeah. And it's it's in different things,

[26:02] different departments, so it's going to

[26:04] vary. But you all can talk amongst

[26:06] yourselves and get ideas. Don't don't go

[26:08] it alone. Don't ever go anything alone.

[26:10] When you're stumped, call for help.

[26:14] >> All right. What else?

[26:20] » What yall want to say? Well, do you I

[26:22] was going to say, do you want to start

[26:23] going through what you were just talking

[26:24] about? I mean, you're you're you've got

[26:26] us at that section with the goals and

[26:28] starting now.

[26:29] >> Start there, page 37. Bart, uh,

[26:32] >> tell us what's on your mind.

[26:34] >> Mainly what we've been trying to do is

[26:36] to be more transparent, more proactive,

[26:40] and engage people, which sometimes leads

[26:43] people to show up and yell at you guys,

[26:44] but we we intend to continue that

[26:48] effort. Um,

[26:49] >> yeah.

[26:51] From my perspective as manager, we

[26:53] really want the citizens to fully

[26:55] understand what they're paying for.

[26:57] >> So to the point about satisfaction,

[27:01] we know when people are upset, they show

[27:03] up and they tell us for sure.

[27:05] >> Rarely, it it has happened recently, but

[27:08] not sometimes people will stop by the

[27:09] offices and offer compliments, but the

[27:12] vast majority of citizens we never hear

[27:14] from at all. So that's we don't want to

[27:16] assume things.

[27:17] >> Yeah. Uh the assumption might be that

[27:19] everybody's satisfied. Don't not going

[27:21] to do that because we don't know.

[27:22] >> Yeah. Get that word out of your

[27:23] vocabulary.

[27:24] >> You know, following up on my discussions

[27:25] with you guys personally trying to do

[27:27] what we can to improve communications

[27:29] and coordination.

[27:30] >> Yeah.

[27:32] And and I totally agree and I

[27:34] think all in all you all do a great job

[27:36] in dealing with the public, the positive

[27:38] and negative. But how how can that be

[27:40] measured?

[27:43] How do you measure those goals?

[27:46] Well, again, we have our efforts pretty

[27:48] well quantified here.

[27:50] >> Uh, guess I'll tell you, I'm going to

[27:52] rely on Woody to help me with some of

[27:54] the data, and he does do that. He lets

[27:55] me know some of the responses and

[27:56] feedback.

[27:58] >> Okay.

[27:58] >> Um,

[28:00] we can note the number of complaints

[28:02] versus number of

[28:05] >> Well, and

[28:06] >> well, I I would think you would do that

[28:07] per department would look at that,

[28:09] correct?

[28:09] >> Is the way I would look at it.

[28:11] >> And again, we'll get to this, too. Yeah,

[28:13] >> I'm certainly prepared to talk about

[28:15] measures for each department. Yeah,

[28:17] >> I know we'll get to it, but electric

[28:19] >> one of the values of our electric

[28:21] department is our response and

[28:22] restoration time. Now, I think we need

[28:24] to start measuring that if we can, but

[28:27] I'm positive that

[28:29] we are much quicker at restoring power

[28:32] outages than anybody around

[28:33] >> and we and and that's a focus. So,

[28:35] >> yeah, I'm not going to deny. So anyway,

[28:38] I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but

[28:39] those kind of metrics are

[28:40] >> Yeah, that's

[28:41] >> yeah, there is and we'll get to that.

[28:43] But yeah, I mean I I think of course we

[28:46] had a meeting with you and gave you a

[28:48] few marching orders, but at the same

[28:50] time there there are a number of things

[28:52] we we're to me we're always looking for

[28:54] ways to improve, how can we do things

[28:57] better, differently? And and some people

[29:00] don't like this word change. We've got

[29:02] to change to continue to improve. It's it you got to do it. Sorry.

[29:08] >> That's one thing I to change is

[29:11] happening. Um I didn't do a

[29:14] presentation, but our demographics

[29:17] are radically changing. A lot of that's

[29:19] due to the phase 2 annexation, frankly.

[29:21] But Census Bureau just published updated

[29:23] figures that reflect our new boundaries

[29:26] and we're quite a bit more affluent than

[29:29] we were. Um, in terms of straight up

[29:31] numbers, you know, we've got over 800

[29:34] units of housing that have been approved

[29:35] and are coming out of the ground.

[29:37] Poverty rate decreased from 20% to 10%.

[29:40] >> Yeah. Look at page 11. We got the

[29:42] updated figures on there.

[29:44] >> Yeah. So,

[29:47] I guess following up on your points

[29:49] change is here. I know it is.

[29:51] >> It's really not a matter of what we

[29:53] Well, we can we can feel about that any

[29:55] way we want to, but it's here and we

[29:57] probably

[29:58] I'm sorry. We do need to change the way

[30:00] we're doing things in our operations to

[30:03] reflect

[30:04] >> that. That's my whole point. Yes. Thank

[30:05] you for saying that.

[30:06] >> Sorry.

[30:07] >> That's what I was trying to

[30:11] get to. And that what the way we're

[30:13] doing things may not always be the way

[30:15] we continue to do things. So, you've got

[30:18] to think out of the box at times and

[30:20] look at what else is out there.

[30:21] Technology, whatever we can tap into

[30:25] there. And yes, it will come at a cost,

[30:28] but uh it's it's out there.

[30:32] Thank you.

[30:33] >> I'm making myself a on my section, you

[30:36] know, response tracking and some

[30:38] quantification, further quantification.

[30:40] What what kind of feed we're trying to

[30:43] initiate reaching out, but we need to

[30:45] quantify what we're hearing back and

[30:47] report that to you. Well, and and one

[30:49] thing we've heard a lot about all of us

[30:51] have is that the communication process.

[30:54] I mean, and I I know it's some people

[30:56] just don't they want to be told

[30:59] everything face to face, but there's a

[31:02] lot of things we put out there like

[31:04] Woody uh the the online things. It's

[31:07] information out there if they want to

[31:09] understand it, but some people just

[31:11] don't want to go online and and read it.

[31:13] So I think we we're doing what we can

[31:16] outside of outside of mailing some

[31:18] monthly letter which would be costly.

[31:20] Okay, here's what we're doing which

[31:22] >> of course the other thing you already

[31:23] know is often times we have to tell

[31:26] people things that they do not want to

[31:27] hear.

[31:27] >> And then that's all part of it.

[31:29] >> That is all part of it. And and I I I

[31:32] speak for myself. I think the rest of us

[31:34] we're we're ready to take that heat if

[31:36] we're being upfront, honest, and

[31:38] transparent. But we always refer back to

[31:39] the code and

[31:40] >> that's right

[31:41] >> objective reasons for that.

[31:42] >> I I don't mind that a bit when when

[31:44] we're doing

[31:46] >> what's right. That's the key.

[31:50] >> Well, okay. That was pretty interesting.

[31:53] What else you got? Anything else?

[31:55] >> Uh again, I'm sorry I kind of

[31:57] interrupted you guys.

[31:58] >> That's all right. Now, we'll we'll get

[32:01] to the meat of it, but if y'all want to

[32:03] just go through that's page 39, finance

[32:06] treasures department, treasur's office,

[32:08] excuse me.

[32:11] Now, Ann's submission there and her

[32:12] vision and again her goals, objectives,

[32:16] performance measures. So, what say you

[32:20] an

[32:21] >> well and part of the our vision and

[32:23] mission? I had a staff meeting with my

[32:26] staff last year and we kind of all

[32:27] developed this together. This is where

[32:30] all of the department saw or envision

[32:32] where we want to be in the future and

[32:34] kind of our short-term mission.

[32:36] >> And um same thing on some of our

[32:39] performance measures and where we want

[32:40] to be. We really want to be more

[32:41] efficient because things are getting

[32:44] harder. There's more accounting

[32:45] standards coming down the pike. It's

[32:47] getting more complicated and we're not

[32:49] getting more staffing. So, we're trying

[32:50] to be more efficient with what we have.

[32:53] We're also trying to help with basically

[32:58] collection rates. The more we can

[33:01] collect, the less we have to write off,

[33:02] the more efficient. So, we've done a lot

[33:04] of focus in the recent years. I know we

[33:06] um our deputy treasurer just got her

[33:09] designation as a master governmental

[33:11] deputy treasurer.

[33:12] >> And then we're sending other staff to

[33:14] different um classes like delinquent

[33:17] collections and bankruptcy. So, we're

[33:19] working really hard to train staff on

[33:21] how to collect and how to do it

[33:23] appropriately and with empathy.

[33:26] And then the audit, as I said earlier,

[33:28] is taking more and more time as more

[33:30] standards come down. So, we're doing

[33:31] everything we can to keep it on time and

[33:33] out with the public with pretty limited

[33:36] number of staff. The audit, the audit is

[33:38] mostly done by the assistant finance

[33:40] director and myself. So, it's about two

[33:42] accountants really working through most

[33:43] of the audit. Mhm.

[33:46] >> But we have a lot of performance

[33:47] measures here that focus on the town's

[33:50] comp plan. And so we've focused on

[33:52] financial stability and health through

[33:55] these performance measures and how we

[33:56] can assist the town with seeing are we

[33:59] meeting that metric.

[34:01] >> Right. So So number two on there doesn't

[34:04] look like it's in good shape, the

[34:06] electric fund.

[34:07] >> Yeah. I mean, we're going down in

[34:09] reserves. We're still at 91 days. Cash

[34:12] on hand is our target for fiscal year

[34:14] 27. Industry standard is 90. So you're

[34:17] right on target.

[34:18] >> Yeah. So if we go below that then we're

[34:20] in Yeah.

[34:22] >> trouble.

[34:23] >> And then the debt service was the other

[34:25] one. So will that go up if if we approve

[34:28] this budget that's going to increase. Do

[34:30] you know what it's going to be?

[34:32] >> It's not going to be the 5% that we've

[34:34] had in the past. I think it's going to

[34:35] be closer to about 2 or 3%.

[34:37] >> Okay.

[34:39] So, but the question on the debt days of

[34:42] cash on hand and the electric fund, is

[34:45] that directly related to decisions

[34:46] council made to

[34:48] >> That's true.

[34:49] >> That's our fault.

[34:51] >> Oh, yeah. No,

[34:52] >> I'm just saying though.

[34:53] >> Yeah. No, it is.

[34:55] >> It's not fault. It's just the

[34:57] circumstance. But yeah,

[34:59] >> we've made that we've made that

[35:00] conscious decision

[35:01] >> and and that's a good point, Dave. in

[35:03] that we have to understand

[35:05] it what decisions we make have a great

[35:07] impact on other things. they make it go

[35:10] or slow it down.

[35:11] >> And and that's where the tax question is

[35:13] going to come up because from what I

[35:16] understand what John said, if we approve

[35:18] the PCA increase, it's going to be 24

[35:21] $24 per 10,000. Correct. 1,000

[35:24] kilowatts.

[35:25] >> Yes.

[35:26] >> So 24%

[35:28] >> $24

[35:29] >> correct

[35:29] >> per month per kil per per 10,000

[35:31] >> 1,00 kilowatt.

[35:32] >> So if somebody uses 2,000 kilowatt,

[35:35] >> they're going to end up having their

[35:36] bill increase $50 a month.

[35:38] basically

[35:39] >> to round up.

[35:41] >> Yeah.

[35:42] >> So that's that's a pretty big

[35:45] >> and every and probably I don't know

[35:47] what's the average is it average 2,000

[35:49] kilowatts across the our customers or is

[35:52] it less?

[35:53] >> It's uh it's around a thousand but

[35:55] >> it really depends on the season. In the

[35:57] winter time it's much higher.

[35:58] >> Yeah.

[35:59] >> Spring and fall it's low.

[36:01] >> But across the state a thousand is the

[36:04] standard we measure against everybody

[36:05] else.

[36:06] >> Yeah. That's where most utilities

[36:07] measure around a thousand,

[36:08] >> right?

[36:09] >> How long has that standard been in

[36:10] effect?

[36:12] >> Long as I can remember. So, so maybe

[36:13] that needs to be updated.

[36:15] >> Most of the bills that I'm seeing going

[36:17] out are higher than a thousand. I'd say

[36:19] that for our customers, it's more like

[36:21] 12 to,300 K.

[36:22] >> Yeah, I was going to say mine's always

[36:24] over a,000.

[36:25] >> Yeah,

[36:28] >> yours is well over a,000.

[36:29] >> Turn off the power,000.

[36:34] So, so that's where that's where I think

[36:36] our challenge to our citizens is going

[36:38] to come. If we do anything differently,

[36:39] we're already going to if we if we go

[36:41] with this,

[36:43] >> then we're going to we're going to

[36:44] challenge our citizens with increasing

[36:46] their power, their monthly rates by

[36:48] what, you know, if you 50 times 12

[36:52] months, you got $600 a year that they're

[36:54] going to be spending on electricity

[36:56] instead of on taxes. But if we don't do

[36:59] it, then our potential uh cash on hand

[37:02] is going to drop. and we kind of revert

[37:04] back

[37:05] >> to where we have been. Exactly. Yeah.

[37:06] >> So, it's going to be a tough decision,

[37:09] but

[37:09] >> yeah,

[37:10] >> and that's where I lean in and honestly

[37:12] if if we can't um be in the positive on

[37:17] the if we can't have that going up or

[37:20] staying equal, do we stay in the

[37:23] electric business?

[37:25] >> You're you're going down that road that

[37:26] we have

[37:27] >> I'm ahead of I'm ahead. Yeah. Okay. So,

[37:28] gentlemen, I did want to remind you that

[37:31] by by statute, we are required in a

[37:35] long-term manner to have what we call uh

[37:37] 1.0 debt coverage of our revenues versus

[37:41] our power purchase agreements, which is

[37:43] to say we can't sell you electric for

[37:46] less less than we paid for it. And

[37:50] that's that's by state law. So, and if

[37:53] you wind up falling below for a few

[37:55] months here and there, as long as you

[37:56] make it up on the other side here and

[37:58] there, it's not a problem. But the long

[38:01] run debt coverage is going to be 1.0.

[38:04] >> So, we actually pay off our debt in May

[38:07] and we will not have any debt in the

[38:09] electric fund starting May 31st.

[38:12] >> But that covenant is still part of our

[38:14] PPAs.

[38:16] >> Ah,

[38:16] >> so this year, next year. So we are debt

[38:20] free made this year this month. Okay.

[38:22] >> However, what Mike is saying is it's

[38:24] still in our purchase power agreements.

[38:26] It constitutes debt.

[38:29] >> So So say that again. So I didn't quite

[38:32] understand what you were.

[38:35] >> So 1.0 debt coverage for a revenue debt

[38:39] and PPAs are not constitutional debt,

[38:42] but they're debt for the purposes of the

[38:44] statutes of uh 15.2 1133.

[38:49] Um

[38:51] so it provides that on a ongoing basis

[38:57] you need to collect as much money for

[39:02] selling electricity as you are paying

[39:04] for that electricity and that's both

[39:07] your O andM costs which are O andM costs

[39:10] are and our direct debt costs which are

[39:13] things like Snowden. All right, that's a

[39:16] direct operating cost that we have

[39:18] that's within our budget. Plus any PPA

[39:22] costs needs to be you need to have a

[39:25] matchup of 1.0 between how much you're

[39:28] collecting and how much you're paying um

[39:31] to operate the fund. which is to say

[39:32] that you can't be subsidizing your fund

[39:35] out of tax your electric fund out of tax

[39:37] money or in the long term even drawing

[39:40] down your reserves because that's

[39:43] considered to be

[39:45] um pledged to the PPA holders. Um and again that's not even something

[39:51] where we can ne negotiate with the with

[39:54] the people we're purchasing power from.

[39:56] That's something the general assembly's

[39:57] told us we got to do.

[39:59] >> Yeah. And you're right. I I think that

[40:02] there were some technicalities or

[40:06] directives from Richmond that we had

[40:07] would have to go back, you know,

[40:09] >> and obviously there are special

[40:11] situations, right? If you had a raft of

[40:14] logs hit Snowden and you had to spend a

[40:17] bajillion dollars to try to fix it. That

[40:20] is what it is. But

[40:22] >> yeah,

[40:22] >> long run normal operations, you got to

[40:25] have the 1.0 ratio between what you

[40:27] collect and what you pay.

[40:28] >> And that's what the PCA does.

[40:30] >> Yes. Yeah.

[40:30] >> Okay. So, we So, we're stuck really

[40:34] matching with paying what the BCA says

[40:36] >> in in the long run. Again, you want to

[40:39] delay it two months, you want to phase

[40:40] it in over 6 months, whatever you want

[40:42] to do, but in the long run,

[40:44] >> and I don't mean the 5year long run. I

[40:46] mean the 12 month long run, you need to

[40:48] make sure you got a 1.0 ratio there.

[40:52] >> And then we will have options that we

[40:54] can talk about.

[40:55] >> Yeah.

[40:55] >> Maybe just add a little bit there, Mike.

[40:58] We pay certain grid costs which are not

[41:01] which are in the PCA but are not part of

[41:04] that covenant. Okay. And they're

[41:07] significant. They're $800,000 a month.

[41:10] So I don't think we have any trouble

[41:12] covering that. It's just how do you

[41:14] define it? And those grid costs are not

[41:16] part of the purchase power agreements.

[41:18] >> Okay. So we do have some room there.

[41:22] Well, I I suspect that those would be

[41:24] categorized into the on andm costs that

[41:26] you're required to have 1.0 coverage on

[41:29] as well.

[41:29] >> Well, that would include our base rate

[41:31] as well. It doesn't right is all

[41:33] collections

[41:34] >> all collections basically. The

[41:35] enterprise fund needs to be balanced is

[41:38] essentially what I'm telling you.

[41:39] >> Yes. And and we are essentially, you

[41:41] know, there may be some differences

[41:43] between what the PCA recovers and what

[41:46] base rates recover. When you put it all

[41:48] together, we're good. that we want to

[41:50] have the goal of having the PCA cover

[41:53] all power cost, but uh there's wiggle

[41:57] room between those two because no,

[41:58] nobody's perfect in setting the base

[42:00] rate versus the PCA. And remember, we

[42:02] just had a whole new rate design in

[42:04] October. So, we're really real, you

[42:06] know, getting working our way through

[42:08] that now. But I do agree in the long

[42:10] term, we got to cover our power costs.

[42:13] So, so have we not? So, to from my

[42:18] limited knowledge, it looks like we

[42:19] haven't been doing that over the past

[42:21] three years. If we go from 151 days down

[42:24] to 91 days,

[42:25] >> and part of that is what triggered the

[42:27] rate study.

[42:27] >> Okay.

[42:28] >> So, because we were not covering it, we

[42:30] had an independent rate consultant come

[42:32] in to design a rate schedule that was

[42:34] supposed to be a 1.0 or above.

[42:37] >> That's right. And remember in the past

[42:40] couple three or four or five years we've

[42:42] been saying okay we're going to eat part

[42:44] of that. Yes

[42:44] >> rather than pass it along to customers

[42:46] because we're trying to be as sensitive

[42:50] to customer cost as possible. So I mean

[42:53] that's a conscious decision that we

[42:55] made. Yeah.

[42:55] >> We just can't do it anymore.

[42:58] >> Yeah. And that's where that's where I

[42:59] that's where I'm just bringing it up

[43:01] because that's where the challenge is.

[43:02] We're going to be raising our rates up

[43:04] again

[43:04] >> and we're going to be looking at this

[43:06] again in what? October, November of this

[43:08] year, right?

[43:08] >> Uh November 1st is when the PCA gets

[43:11] reviewed.

[43:11] >> Correct.

[43:12] >> So, uh there is there is some leeway

[43:15] within the wording of the PCA to give

[43:18] you some leeway on how to pass the cost

[43:21] along. Uh but we'll get to that some.

[43:24] >> And then what I'm what I'm trying to say

[43:25] is this is the gift that keeps on

[43:27] giving.

[43:27] >> Yeah.

[43:28] >> So, get used to it. But yeah, the only

[43:30] reason I'm bringing it up is because

[43:32] it's it's going to be it's we've got all

[43:34] these other challenges, but this is

[43:35] another challenge for our citizens we

[43:37] need to think about.

[43:38] >> Exactly. Right.

[43:39] >> Yeah.

[43:39] >> Um and I was wondering the last one on page uh 40 is maintain a collection

[43:45] rate of over 90%. On personal property

[43:48] and electric bills

[43:50] >> doing that.

[43:50] >> We are. Yes. I'm very proud.

[43:53] >> I see. Yeah. 99%.

[43:55] >> Yeah. They're doing an amazing job.

[43:56] >> Good job.

[43:57] >> Thank you. Yeah,

[43:58] >> maybe next maybe now it should be raised

[44:00] to 95%.

[44:02] >> That is true.

[44:03] >> Industry standard is normally 90 and

[44:05] that's where

[44:07] um of course I I'll say the same thing

[44:09] probably with electric. Y'all really do

[44:12] seriously need to consider

[44:14] >> and it's vision. It's vision on the

[44:16] vision side

[44:18] metering.

[44:19] >> Yes,

[44:19] >> that will be a big game changer. This will take care of some of your

[44:24] problems.

[44:26] It's costly. Yes. But uh you'll love it.

[44:29] >> I agree.

[44:30] >> Yeah.

[44:31] >> So, what else you have for us? Anything

[44:32] else?

[44:34] >> Before we move on, I I just a note that

[44:40] both town manager and and our director

[44:44] of finances said um that obviously

[44:48] personnel don't have enough staff to do

[44:51] what we need to do. Uh it's going to be

[44:53] always an issue. So, I'm just going to

[44:56] bring it back up again because I'll be

[44:57] keeping this drum about volunteers.

[45:00] >> I mean, there's I mean, you know, Bart

[45:03] mentioned a minute ago about if we had

[45:04] to do the postage meter. Well, that

[45:06] doesn't take a rocket scientist to do

[45:09] run postage through. I mean, if we So,

[45:11] my my

[45:13] a goal would be to try to vision be to

[45:16] try to get folks to think more on

[45:19] volunteers. I mean, your statistics here

[45:22] are are great. 91% high school

[45:24] graduates, 28% that are have bachelors,

[45:28] about 60% are in the labor force, that

[45:30] probably means about 40% of the folks

[45:32] are retired. Um, so if we would take a

[45:36] look at departments or take a look at

[45:38] what volunteers could do and maybe just

[45:40] come up with, I hate to say job

[45:43] description. I mean, once that person

[45:45] gets in there and and doing things like

[45:47] administrative stuff or or whatever that

[45:49] I'll be out there, you really don't need

[45:51] to supervise them that much. I know. So,

[45:54] the supervisions on the front end, but

[45:56] it pays dividends on the long run. So,

[45:58] that's just my my two cents on trying to

[46:01] get help staffing.

[46:03] >> You're exactly right, uh, Dave, and that

[46:06] you get the right people, right

[46:07] positions, once you get them trained,

[46:08] they need very little supervision. And I've seen Ann's group Ann has a very

[46:13] good group. Uh they know what they're

[46:15] doing. They go at it and when they have

[46:16] a problem or a question, they come to

[46:18] you. But they know what they're doing.

[46:22] But yeah, you're right. But then some

[46:25] don't work out and

[46:26] >> Oh, no. It's just same way.

[46:30] >> It's the same hiring employees. That's

[46:32] right. Some don't say.

[46:34] >> Good deal. Good comments.

[46:36] And you we we'll we'll come back to the

[46:39] financial side. Don't get me wrong. I'm

[46:41] just

[46:41] >> Oh, I know.

[46:42] >> Yeah. No, I just

[46:44] >> Yeah.

[46:44] >> Since both of them have had that

[46:45] comment, I wanted to just kind

[46:47] >> Yeah.

[46:48] >> Um page 42,

[46:51] uh information technology. U

[46:53] >> yeah, Daryl's not with Daryl's the ops

[46:55] guy. The budget stuff basically Ann and

[46:57] I kind of cover for him.

[46:59] Going back to we're saying the mandates

[47:01] and the needs for security and the fact

[47:05] that software is not being supported and

[47:07] there's planned obsolescence. I mean

[47:09] we're drinking from the fire hose on

[47:11] several issues there and operationally

[47:15] well I'll tell you we're frankly

[47:16] struggling to handle that. We've got two

[47:18] full full-time employees. We're also

[47:21] contracting out with Magna 5 to provide

[47:24] a safety net, but those safety net

[47:27] activities are almost becoming as

[47:28] prevalent as the day-to-day stuff. So,

[47:31] >> well, information technology is a one of

[47:34] those things that I I of course I'm not

[47:37] involved as much as it once was, but you

[47:39] buy a computer now, a laptop, it's

[47:41] obsolete within what, one to two years.

[47:44] So, I mean, things are changing that

[47:46] quick on the technology side. And I I

[47:48] hesitate to mention this because frankly

[47:50] I'm a little superstitious. Um

[47:53] I've got colleagues who have dealt with

[47:54] ransomware issues and I just don't ever

[47:56] want to have to do that.

[47:58] >> But frankly, you're going to pay one way

[48:00] or the other.

[48:01] >> So that's that's it.

[48:04] >> I mean we have big projects coming like

[48:05] a Microsoft transition to the

[48:08] cloud-based software. We very large

[48:11] project our phone system

[48:12] >> and always updates.

[48:14] >> Yep. Well, our phone system will be out

[48:16] of license. I think in that meeting they

[48:18] said in the next three years. Yeah.

[48:20] >> And they don't sell any more phones.

[48:22] >> So he's he's got a lot of issues he's

[48:24] dealing with now with that.

[48:26] >> And that's that's one of those things

[48:28] you have no choice.

[48:29] >> You've got to look at other options and it's costly.

[48:32] >> And the option there is we're looking at

[48:34] the mobile phones that the town owns and

[48:36] issues. So we

[48:37] >> we're not we're not just throwing

[48:39] problems at you without solutions

[48:41] proposed behind.

[48:42] >> Yeah.

[48:45] because the mobile phones could be

[48:46] as much of a liability too if they're if

[48:49] they're connected to the internet and

[48:50] they can they can click on a link

[48:52] that'll actually yeah it's dangerous

[48:55] >> but you do um and I from when I was here

[48:58] there's really good training that the

[49:00] town provides to its employees so that

[49:03] they're not

[49:04] >> to all of us we all see it also the

[49:06] >> and we do monitor that and we test

[49:08] everybody and

[49:09] >> yes

[49:09] >> and we send a monthly report on our pass

[49:11] and failure rate

[49:13] >> I mean our IT staff is constantly going

[49:15] out of their way to try to trick us

[49:18] >> and and I've seen that. Yeah, you're

[49:19] right. And but but that's and but that's

[49:22] the way it is when you get a email that

[49:25] looks legit but it says warning don't

[49:29] open the thing. You know

[49:31] >> the other thing operationally too is

[49:32] with the the software systems we have in

[49:34] place. They age out. They become less

[49:37] functional. We're encountering that.

[49:38] we've encountered that with the electric

[49:39] funer recently where our online payment

[49:43] system had a glitch that we had to

[49:44] resolve. Um the other thing too is these

[49:47] systems are not cheap and once we're

[49:50] invested in them it's hard well

[49:53] >> you can't just pull out I mean you can't

[49:55] get your money back I guess is what I'm

[49:56] trying to say. So

[49:57] >> in any service discussion particularly

[49:59] electric we're committed to upgrades

[50:01] that are ongoing. So if we decided to

[50:04] come to a completely different direction

[50:07] in terms of service that's going to

[50:08] impact it as well.

[50:09] >> Oh yeah that's right. And it's kind of a process for individuals and everyone

[50:16] you have to learn the basics of what it

[50:18] is. I mean it may be very similar to

[50:20] what you were using but it's still

[50:22] different in its own way.

[50:25] One thing I meant to ask you, Ann,

[50:26] earlier the uh the credit card for

[50:30] electric bills.

[50:32] >> Are we there or where are we on that?

[50:34] >> So, we received a proposal with our new

[50:36] software where we basically have two

[50:38] options. You can either absorb credit

[50:41] card fees and that would be no charge to

[50:43] our customers. I estimate that would be

[50:45] around $250,000 a year to do that. The

[50:48] other option is that we could pass all

[50:50] fees to our customer and it would be at

[50:52] our existing credit card rates which

[50:54] they've told us is 3.95% or $2.50

[50:58] minimum charge.

[51:00] >> So those are the two options associated

[51:02] with it. The benefit of absorbing fees

[51:04] is that you get a lower negotiated rate

[51:07] that's not offered if you pass the fee

[51:09] along. What that means is that when you

[51:11] swipe your card, instead of it being

[51:13] around a 1% charge, it would be around a

[51:15] 95 cent per 95 cent per transaction

[51:18] charge, but that's only available if you

[51:21] choose to absorb the fee.

[51:24] >> Because I'm thinking, okay, if I'm in

[51:26] another state for a month,

[51:28] >> and I realize, oh, my electric bill is

[51:31] due on the 10th of each month, how can I

[51:34] pay it? Could I call and put it on a

[51:37] credit card or

[51:38] >> so today or in the future?

[51:40] >> Right now.

[51:40] you can call. We do have an

[51:42] IVR system to do that. It's a $4.95 per

[51:46] transaction charge today.

[51:48] >> But it would cost me more to be

[51:49] reconnected. Right.

[51:51] >> Yes. Well, let's add it all to your

[51:53] bill. Yeah.

[51:56] >> I don't want that. But but yeah, that's

[51:58] what I was wondering if I'm out of state

[52:00] for a month or longer.

[52:01] >> Yes. Yes.

[52:02] >> And I realized, oh, I I know when my

[52:04] electric bills due.

[52:05] >> Can I call and pay?

[52:07] >> You can. You can't call into our staff

[52:09] because we don't have the security on

[52:11] our phones to do that, but we do have a

[52:13] phone number that takes payments for us.

[52:16] >> Well, I could call John and say, "John,

[52:18] I need a favor. Go pay it. I'll

[52:19] reimburse you."

[52:20] >> And I would do that for you. But the

[52:23] other option you have, Mr. Mayor, is you

[52:25] just put it in the mail. It cost you 50

[52:27] cents.

[52:28] One thing we really want to push too is

[52:30] that we offer an in-house a program. And

[52:33] if you sign up for that with avoided

[52:35] check, we run that in here and we really

[52:37] want to push that. It's a free service

[52:39] we offer.

[52:41] >> But if I'm in another state, I'm not

[52:42] getting my mail down there. I'm kind of

[52:44] monitoring what's going on. Somebody may

[52:47] be telling me, you have this bill due on

[52:49] the 10th and today's the 9th.

[52:51] >> And also my staff, we don't have an

[52:53] automated system. So they are calling in

[52:56] house to people on the disconnect list

[52:57] and it it does take a lot of time but we

[52:59] found it really helps.

[53:00] >> Yeah. And that's another long-term

[53:03] vision.

[53:04] >> Yeah.

[53:05] >> So I have a question. So you know a lot

[53:08] of places now where you can go sign in

[53:10] to the account online. Are we exploring

[53:14] that possibility down the road or do we

[53:16] have the technology to do that yet?

[53:18] >> So we do have the technology now where

[53:20] you can go online and register your

[53:22] account. I will say that our system is

[53:24] what I would call a legacy system. We're

[53:26] trying to upgrade it. We've started that

[53:28] project. We plan to go live with a new

[53:30] software in April of next year. The new

[53:33] software will be like our tax software.

[53:36] So, it's modern, up-to-date,

[53:37] cloud-based, and I think it'll be a much

[53:39] better customer experience. It'll also

[53:41] offer a lot of things we don't have

[53:43] today. So, one of those is disconnects.

[53:46] I mentioned staff is picking up the

[53:47] phone and calling. We'll do something

[53:49] called call campaigns. So, we'll tell it

[53:52] what to say and it'll send out automated

[53:53] messages to everybody on the list. And

[53:55] we can do that a couple times. It'll

[53:56] send emails, text messages. So, it's

[53:59] going to be a much better service than

[54:00] what we have today.

[54:04] >> I mean, because I I go online. I've

[54:06] already set up for automatic pay and I

[54:08] can go online. I did the e billill. So,

[54:10] I get the email notice saying my bill's

[54:12] this and

[54:13] >> yeah,

[54:13] >> all it's all seen was

[54:15] >> good. Thank you. Yeah, that's kind of

[54:18] what we're Yeah, that's good.

[54:22] >> All right, information technology. I see

[54:24] Daryl had his goals, objectives, vision

[54:27] statement, and he's put on page 43, ways

[54:31] to measure it and so forth. So, you

[54:34] know, that's again, that's what I like

[54:37] to see. I mean, you've got that vision

[54:39] and you're going uh down that road.

[54:42] You've got your where you want to drive

[54:44] that vehicle. You got the driver driving

[54:46] it and the your destination. So

[54:50] good.

[54:52] Any any questions on that? Comments.

[54:56] All right. Police department.

[55:00] >> What say you, Jim?

[55:04] >> You're taking care of criminals.

[55:06] Correct.

[55:07] >> Lock them up. Book them down.

[55:10] >> Customer service.

[55:12] >> There you go.

[55:14] But I should not leave the keys in my

[55:16] car at night. Right.

[55:18] >> Common sense.

[55:21] >> We're basically operate still operating

[55:23] off a three-year strategic plan that I

[55:27] have not had a chance to. We've achieved

[55:29] a lot of those goals, but uh discussions

[55:32] with command staff. We're going to start

[55:33] doing yearly smart goals and make our

[55:35] strategic plan a little bigger

[55:38] um where we can actually do measurable

[55:41] goals every year. We do not have our 27

[55:44] goals yet.

[55:46] >> 27 goals yet. But I have found in past

[55:49] agencies I've worked for, if you do

[55:50] that, you're you're able to be more

[55:52] responsive and a little more agile in

[55:54] how you plan your next year's work.

[55:59] >> Yeah, I saw where you put two to be

[56:00] determined. I just wondered how long

[56:02] that would take. But you all you're

[56:03] working on those now. Well, in the in the strategic plan that was

[56:08] created before I came, we're still uh

[56:11] you know, we're up about the middle of

[56:13] that three-year plan, but uh we're going

[56:14] to we're going to go in a new direction.

[56:16] Uh a lot of that we're going to continue

[56:18] to pursue because it's good stuff. a lot

[56:20] of good stuff in there, but I found that

[56:22] a lot of it is uh I found in the

[56:25] policing world a lot of times we'll do things like uh we're going to

[56:30] reduce DUI crashes for instance, but we

[56:32] only play a small part in controlling

[56:35] that things like that. What we can do

[56:37] for instance is increase our DUI special

[56:40] controls and things like that.

[56:41] There's a few things that need to be

[56:43] tweaked and remapped.

[56:45] >> And again, probably broken down year to

[56:47] year rather than a threeyear block.

[56:50] >> I would think some things just what from

[56:54] the outside looking in like crime

[56:56] trends. What kind of crime is going on

[56:58] in this area and what kind of drugs are

[57:01] being run through here? I know we've

[57:03] heard that in years gone by. What I I

[57:06] don't know what the main drug of

[57:09] substance abuse is now. Yeah, that's

[57:11] funny how that over years it cycles

[57:14] >> through and

[57:15] >> something will be the flavor of the day.

[57:17] For instance, crack, take the crack for

[57:19] instance, big in the 80s, coming back

[57:22] again.

[57:22] >> Yeah.

[57:23] >> And then all the designer drills that

[57:25] are coming in from overseas. It's hard

[57:27] to keep up with.

[57:28] >> Yeah. Hopefully some of that is being

[57:30] cut down, but it's still going to find

[57:32] its way through no matter what what is

[57:35] done. Um and you of course response

[57:38] times to calls. I mean there there are

[57:40] little things you could monitor how long

[57:42] it takes to get

[57:44] >> Yes. When I looked at the response times

[57:45] to calls, it's really kind of hard to

[57:47] quantify that and even the type of

[57:49] calls. Uh you might have a for instance,

[57:52] you might have a call about alarm going

[57:55] off in business and it may be the fact

[57:58] that you know uh

[58:01] >> you know just a false alarm or you might

[58:04] have a burglary which takes may take

[58:07] hundreds of man hours to solve. So it's hard to quantify a lot of a lot of

[58:12] the calls and even the response times

[58:15] come in different tiers. You know,

[58:17] there's a difference between an

[58:18] emergency call and a dog and and I call

[58:21] that a dog. For instance, I I'll tell

[58:25] you this little funny story. It wasn't

[58:28] as funny then, but it's funny now. back in my meter reading days back the

[58:32] downtown Lynburg area. Threequarters of

[58:35] those meters were in those buildings

[58:37] down in the basement. So we had keys to

[58:40] a lot of those buildings when they were

[58:42] not in service or when we had to get in

[58:44] to check the meter. And unbeknown to me,

[58:49] I went in one building. It was a

[58:51] restaurant. Just went on front door. We

[58:53] had a key. It was not open. Think of

[58:55] this little buzzer going off. Think what

[58:58] is that little noise there? So I go

[59:00] down, check the meter, and come back up.

[59:02] In front door is a couple of police

[59:03] there. Said,

[59:05] >> "Yeah,

[59:06] >> what are you doing?" I said, "Oh, I'm

[59:07] out. Go. I'm just checking the meter."

[59:10] Okay. But it had alerted the police to

[59:13] come and see who's in that building. So

[59:16] it it works.

[59:18] But uh those those things are good. Uh I

[59:22] put my hands up. Don't arrest me.

[59:24] >> That started your criminal career.

[59:27] started beforehand. That's what made the

[59:30] long face back.

[59:33] But that sounds good. Jim, do you have

[59:35] anything else to add or

[59:36] >> No, obviously I'm here to answer any

[59:39] specific questions, but

[59:41] >> what do y'all have?

[59:42] >> I got two questions. So, we fully

[59:44] staffed now. Everything we completely

[59:46] fully staffed.

[59:47] >> Fully staffed. We have three that still

[59:49] need another five weeks in the academy

[59:51] and 12 weeks of FTO. And then uh good

[59:54] lord will be fully staffed with 241.

[59:59] >> Cool. And then here it says right under

[1:00:01] the authorized positions it says

[1:00:03] $100,000 CIP request for improvements at

[1:00:07] Li Lake Park facility and what new

[1:00:09] improvements are we looking at to

[1:00:11] upgrade?

[1:00:12] >> I don't know exactly how that got in

[1:00:13] there. I do have plans, long-term plans

[1:00:15] for some improvements we'd like to do up

[1:00:18] there as far as like

[1:00:20] an actual locker room, washer, dryer,

[1:00:22] things like that.

[1:00:24] >> And then maybe split up for a couple

[1:00:26] more offices up there, but yeah, there's

[1:00:29] >> I certainly have a longterm wish list on

[1:00:31] that.

[1:00:31] >> And speaking of that, of course, that

[1:00:33] was a temporary approach to offset the

[1:00:36] need for a new police department.

[1:00:38] Temporary in government terms often

[1:00:40] spans many years.

[1:00:44] Give me one second. I'll try to pull

[1:00:45] that request.

[1:00:46] >> I want to ask a quick question, mayor,

[1:00:49] for you that I mean, right now we're

[1:00:51] going through the You're just going

[1:00:53] through visions and stuff. We'll go

[1:00:54] through the budget separately.

[1:00:56] >> Correct. It was at the bottom of the

[1:01:00] I cl

[1:01:02] I'm curious as to

[1:01:03] >> I got I'm going to beat up Jim for a

[1:01:04] little bit.

[1:01:05] >> We can we can talk about that later.

[1:01:07] That's fine.

[1:01:07] >> We We'll get to that once I get through

[1:01:09] this.

[1:01:10] It just popped out because you look

[1:01:12] through all the other stuff.

[1:01:13] >> That's I'm fine. I just want to make

[1:01:14] sure that we

[1:01:16] >> I'm just kind of understanding the

[1:01:18] goals, visions, and and as I said

[1:01:20] earlier, who's driving the car?

[1:01:23] >> I do have that request pulled up if you

[1:01:25] would like. It has continued

[1:01:27] improvements to the support services

[1:01:29] building to include the knowledge to

[1:01:31] paint renovate office area by adding Oh,

[1:01:34] it just disappeared. Um, give me one

[1:01:37] second.

[1:01:39] Okay.

[1:01:41] >> All right.

[1:01:42] >> Renovate office area by adding a POD

[1:01:44] partition or wall. Renovate interior of

[1:01:46] building and building locker, shower

[1:01:48] rooms or gym decontamination if and when

[1:01:50] needed.

[1:01:53] » That is the request.

[1:01:54] >> I think chief does a great job. I think

[1:01:57] with police presence on both side of

[1:01:59] town, I think it really helps a lot to

[1:02:01] keep what's going on in town. So,

[1:02:05] >> you really focus on just being in

[1:02:06] neighborhoods.

[1:02:07] >> Yep. I'm always reminding the guys that

[1:02:10] just somebody seeing you drive down the

[1:02:12] street provides a lot of comfort and

[1:02:13] safety feel.

[1:02:15] >> The the presence goes a long way.

[1:02:18] >> You're right.

[1:02:20] >> Anything else?

[1:02:22] >> All right. Page 46. Fire department.

[1:02:25] Stacy, what you got for us?

[1:02:30] Um kind of along the same terms, you

[1:02:33] know, 26 27 goals and objectives to kind

[1:02:35] of to be determined more or less, uh

[1:02:39] it's a little bit

[1:02:41] more difficult for us to kind of portray

[1:02:44] that being a volunteer system. But as

[1:02:47] far as like outside of anything normal

[1:02:50] than, you know, providing the best

[1:02:51] service uh to the community, to the town

[1:02:53] residents, as well as our response area

[1:02:55] and the county, um we're

[1:02:58] really getting into a uh position where

[1:03:03] a lot of our tools, equipment, and stuff

[1:03:05] like that, it's time to start really

[1:03:07] getting with the times more.

[1:03:09] >> So, we've really looked into that. We

[1:03:11] have I got quite a few

[1:03:14] >> uh members that committees and stuff

[1:03:16] looking to just let's start, you know,

[1:03:18] work toward what do we need? Let's give

[1:03:21] people the time as far as like

[1:03:23] extrication tools, hand tools, anything,

[1:03:26] hose, nozzles, stuff like that. What can

[1:03:28] we do to better ourselves to make things

[1:03:30] a lot faster? Fires are burning a lot.

[1:03:33] Fires are burning faster. They're

[1:03:35] burning hotter. We're already behind the

[1:03:37] eightball when we get the call. So, they

[1:03:40] don't burn like we used to. Even in much

[1:03:42] area 16 years ago, a lot of these older

[1:03:44] ones, we had a little bit more time to

[1:03:46] get there. So we're looking at more

[1:03:48] equipment that's lightweight, more

[1:03:50] efficient, but still puts out the output

[1:03:52] that is needed, especially back. So

[1:03:58] again, just working towards that goals

[1:04:00] and objectives.

[1:04:02] As far as performance measures, really

[1:04:05] just continuing to improve morale, uh,

[1:04:07] mental health and, uh, overall volunteer

[1:04:12] commitment and participation really.

[1:04:16] It's out there that we answer the calls

[1:04:18] that we put it out there. We're

[1:04:20] answering a lot more calls outside of

[1:04:23] our first dude. That is not our I'm not

[1:04:25] going to say it's not our

[1:04:26] responsibility, but we are not the first

[1:04:28] company. That's how those companies are

[1:04:31] not

[1:04:33] So we are

[1:04:35] >> next in line more or less. We're right

[1:04:37] there on home to be burning 30 minutes

[1:04:40] from here. So 25 to 30 minute response

[1:04:43] time for us and we're the first ones on

[1:04:45] scene. Our members retired but

[1:04:49] >> it's it's invaluable what they're

[1:04:50] putting out there. So what they're doing

[1:04:55] >> well it's called dedication. I mean it

[1:04:56] when something like that happens that's

[1:04:59] what they're dedicated to do. I mean

[1:05:01] It's more and more frequent. We see it

[1:05:04] uh more parts of the county than others.

[1:05:06] We know when a call is dispatched to a

[1:05:08] certain area, that company's more than

[1:05:11] likely not going to get out. But if they

[1:05:13] do, they're not going to have sufficient

[1:05:15] manpower to handle what what was at

[1:05:18] stake. So that's that's one of my

[1:05:23] personal performance measures is

[1:05:25] continuing to provide that service for

[1:05:27] everyone.

[1:05:28] >> How many volunteers do you have

[1:05:30] >> right now? at the roster set to right

[1:05:32] around 55 56. All of which are trained

[1:05:37] to at least the minimum fire one

[1:05:40] firefighter one level except for four.

[1:05:43] Uh three of those are in a current

[1:05:45] firefighter one class which they're

[1:05:47] actually on their first uh training and

[1:05:49] burn today. Uh we had one that started

[1:05:52] just after one started.

[1:05:56] Um we've had a big influx in

[1:05:59] applications um membership people want

[1:06:02] to do it.

[1:06:03] >> Um so we're constantly monitoring those

[1:06:06] interviewing set through those really

[1:06:08] just kind of just paint because some

[1:06:11] people get in they sound great when they

[1:06:12] interview but once when they get there

[1:06:14] our house culture on the streets

[1:06:16] actually start to run these calls and

[1:06:18] they decide it's not enough and that's

[1:06:20] perfectly fine. That is perfectly fine.

[1:06:23] um trying to find that balance between

[1:06:27] is this right for you are we the right

[1:06:29] fit for you

[1:06:36] » is the morale pretty good

[1:06:37] >> I believe so if not straight to my face

[1:06:44] » they're doing a good job of it huh

[1:06:46] >> they are yeah it's great uh culture is there um like I said it's

[1:06:51] hard We're running more calls than we

[1:06:53] ever have. We're It's already what is it

[1:06:56] the 1st of May and we're destined to

[1:06:59] reach over,400 calls this year for

[1:07:02] service. So,

[1:07:04] it's going to be crazy.

[1:07:05] >> You know, I say this all the time, but

[1:07:08] that fire department there, the Beth

[1:07:10] Fire Department has a long rich history

[1:07:13] of volunteering and commitment and

[1:07:16] dedication. I mean, it stands it's it

[1:07:19] that probably goes a long way in getting

[1:07:21] people uh to come there and volunteer. I

[1:07:24] mean, it's has a history, as you just

[1:07:26] said, Stacy, of going 30 minutes to a a

[1:07:29] fire that's really not in your your

[1:07:32] geographic territory, but no one else

[1:07:34] has responded. I mean, that's that says

[1:07:38] a lot about the fire department.

[1:07:39] >> We have to change our entire run. Like,

[1:07:41] for just for notes, but that requires us

[1:07:44] to change our entire run. Instead of

[1:07:46] taking the lighter out that would be

[1:07:48] first out on that, you know, we're

[1:07:49] having to provide both the piece of the

[1:07:51] wagon, the tanker, and the ladder truck

[1:07:53] with a sufficient amount of manower,

[1:07:55] which double-edged sword. We're taking

[1:07:58] them volunteers away from the town.

[1:08:00] >> Yeah.

[1:08:01] >> Nine times out of 10 at the same time,

[1:08:03] >> right?

[1:08:03] >> But

[1:08:05] more members step up.

[1:08:08] >> Yeah.

[1:08:09] >> Well, I think you're doing a great job

[1:08:11] and we will continue to support support

[1:08:13] the fire department any way we can.

[1:08:17] Yes. You mentioned that uh sometimes you

[1:08:21] guys get get tired and stuff and and I

[1:08:23] think from parenting to public service,

[1:08:25] we're all tired, you know, that type

[1:08:27] stuff. But do do you think you were you

[1:08:29] were staffed enough to, you know,

[1:08:31] minimize fatigue and and that kind of

[1:08:33] stuff?

[1:08:33] >> Yeah, I believe so. We have a and I was

[1:08:37] naive when I first got in. I might not

[1:08:39] have seen it. You know, I was one of

[1:08:40] those young guys. I ran every single

[1:08:42] call. I didn't have kids or anything

[1:08:44] like that. Now we've trans like it's

[1:08:47] moved more towards the the big core

[1:08:50] group of us. We do have young kids and

[1:08:53] we're trying to make softball games and

[1:08:55] school dances and plays and on top of

[1:08:58] that calls and then we're up most of our

[1:09:01] calls. We get a few during the day but

[1:09:03] most of them in the evenings and so out

[1:09:06] we still got to provide for our family

[1:09:08] at the same time. So yeah, they're tired

[1:09:10] but we make sure that there's a relief

[1:09:13] factor there. Um, if I get there and I

[1:09:16] know that they've been up all night,

[1:09:17] like go take a nap. Like, I need you at

[1:09:21] your best

[1:09:22] >> at 2 a.m. and at 2:00 p.m., you know, I

[1:09:25] mean, so go take that nap. Everything

[1:09:27] else is covered. They know their

[1:09:29] expectations. They know it's clean,

[1:09:31] everything ready to go.

[1:09:33] I need to be ready.

[1:09:36] >> So, I mean, it's there. Um, you always

[1:09:39] have ones that I'm tired.

[1:09:43] That's okay.

[1:09:48] We have a good we have a good balance.

[1:09:53] » I have a question. How many permits EMTs

[1:09:56] do you have?

[1:09:58] >> Without knowing the actual number off

[1:10:00] the top of my head, I would say

[1:10:04] 75% of our department is minimal EMT

[1:10:08] basic nationally registered certified.

[1:10:11] Um, I would say we probably have more

[1:10:13] paramedics on the roster than Bedford

[1:10:18] County Fire and Rescue has

[1:10:22] staff.

[1:10:23] And then just they run 500 5 to 600

[1:10:26] trucks a day

[1:10:28] for 24 hours

[1:10:32] a lot.

[1:10:33] >> No, no, you get a lot of EMS calls. So,

[1:10:35] it takes up a lot of more time there.

[1:10:38] >> The first responder base and that's

[1:10:40] another I mean, you know, we try to

[1:10:42] continue to, you know, people sign up to

[1:10:44] ride a fire truck, you know, and we do

[1:10:47] provide a first responder. Um, your

[1:10:49] closest met trucks coming from Fair

[1:10:51] Island

[1:10:53] 1221

[1:10:55] intersection. It takes them 30 minutes

[1:10:58] to get here. Somebody's either falling

[1:11:00] in the driveway and it's 20° outside.

[1:11:02] We're going to get up, answer that.

[1:11:03] We're not only automatic.

[1:11:06] >> We're going to step up. My guys know to

[1:11:08] do what's right. Um,

[1:11:10] Unfortunately, like cardiac arrest or

[1:11:12] something like that, we be first on

[1:11:14] scene

[1:11:17] grants and stuff like that. We try to

[1:11:18] get the best

[1:11:20] we

[1:11:24] guys wants and stuff in the station, but

[1:11:27] we're not.

[1:11:28] I hope we don't

[1:11:31] understand what all that

[1:11:32] >> is.

[1:11:37] We do provide that person

[1:11:40] too.

[1:11:41] >> You you serve the public well.

[1:11:43] >> You sure?

[1:11:44] >> Yes.

[1:11:46] >> Anything else?

[1:11:47] >> I just just a quick general question. I

[1:11:50] mean, you obviously provide excellent

[1:11:52] service to the community. How does the

[1:11:54] community support you? How's how's the

[1:11:55] annual fundraiser? Has it been has

[1:11:58] donations increased and everything?

[1:12:00] >> I would say I don't know if they've

[1:12:02] increased. um they've been they've been

[1:12:05] pretty steady uh throughout the year. Uh

[1:12:08] and we're very fortunate. We do not have

[1:12:10] our community supports us very well

[1:12:11] through our annual mailout. Um we're not

[1:12:15] like other departments that have to do

[1:12:17] like uh stewards just at their hand for

[1:12:21] 100 years and their chief complaints

[1:12:22] about it every year but you're in

[1:12:25] trouble that

[1:12:27] or spaghetti dinner or chicken. We don't

[1:12:29] have we're very fortunate that um and a

[1:12:33] lot of our pay like

[1:12:36] contributors donators they actually come

[1:12:40] from either that state or not they don't

[1:12:42] live in this area because they own homes

[1:12:44] and stuff here. So we make sure that we put them fingers out there and stuff.

[1:12:50] >> Now not everybody can do it.

[1:12:54] Times are tough, but

[1:12:56] >> they're there.

[1:12:57] >> Okay,

[1:12:58] >> they're call.

[1:12:59] >> That's cool. Thanks.

[1:13:02] >> Good.

[1:13:03] >> Appreciate it, S.

[1:13:05] >> Thank you.

[1:13:05] >> All right. Public works.

[1:13:08] Tom, come on down and speak to us or

[1:13:11] stay there and speak to us.

[1:13:14] >> I know you got little goals and

[1:13:16] performance measures to be determined.

[1:13:18] Just tell us what's going on.

[1:13:19] >> Then you'll hear from Tom Tuesday night

[1:13:21] again anyway.

[1:13:22] >> Oh, that's true.

[1:13:23] Yeah.

[1:13:24] >> Don't divulge any secrets.

[1:13:28] » Now, um the main thing about mine is I'm

[1:13:31] kind of I got a number of questions that

[1:13:33] need answer answering, you know, where

[1:13:36] we're headed with the transfer station,

[1:13:39] where we're headed with trash

[1:13:41] collection. Uh those are two big things

[1:13:43] and because that rolls over into

[1:13:45] equipment needs that I that I have and

[1:13:47] that I have requested uh going forward.

[1:13:50] So, there's big budget requests that

[1:13:55] probably have to be funded. Uh so those

[1:14:00] are my biggest concerns. Um I do have a

[1:14:04] list, you know, like I said, equipment

[1:14:06] is an issue, transportation,

[1:14:09] um adherence to the fees, that was a

[1:14:12] concern that I had. been I deal a lot

[1:14:15] with the uh parks and the special events

[1:14:18] and um

[1:14:21] quite often people just expect it to be

[1:14:23] done

[1:14:25] >> but cost

[1:14:26] >> right right

[1:14:27] >> you know so that that's one of the

[1:14:28] things uh

[1:14:29] >> Tom's the Tom's the other duties

[1:14:31] assigned department pretty much

[1:14:34] >> it kind of rolls down heels that's never

[1:14:36] mind

[1:14:38] but

[1:14:38] >> but that is one thing that I think we

[1:14:40] are talking about discussing at some

[1:14:44] Yeah.

[1:14:44] >> Yeah. I mean, it's just it, you know, I

[1:14:47] I'm all about, you know, community

[1:14:49] service and that kind of thing, but

[1:14:52] >> where how far Yeah, I know.

[1:14:54] >> Nothing's screaming. Yes. No matter

[1:14:56] what.

[1:14:57] >> Nothing. Yeah. No matter what is said,

[1:14:58] you're exactly right.

[1:15:00] >> And then, uh, one of my other

[1:15:04] concerns goes along with what what Ann

[1:15:06] was saying about, um, feed collection.

[1:15:10] Um, and I had spoken to her, you know, a

[1:15:13] while ago and but one of the things we

[1:15:15] want to work on, I'd really like to take

[1:15:17] the feed collection from Cheryl from the

[1:15:20] if we continue with transportation and

[1:15:22] from cemeteries, you know, out of the

[1:15:25] individual's hands. Where I come from,

[1:15:28] you know, been doing this 30 years, no

[1:15:30] one touched the money except for the

[1:15:32] finance department. So,

[1:15:34] >> right,

[1:15:34] >> it just has to change, you know, it's a

[1:15:39] >> I forget it's a legal term. So,

[1:15:41] >> it's a risk management issue.

[1:15:43] >> Yeah, it's risk management and it's, you

[1:15:45] know, the chain of who has the money in

[1:15:48] their hand kind of.

[1:15:49] >> Are we looking into that or

[1:15:50] >> Oh, yes.

[1:15:53] >> Okay. Okay.

[1:15:54] >> And you know, as you all may or may not

[1:15:56] be aware, I have a terminated employee

[1:15:58] because he was stealing

[1:16:01] >> from the transfer station.

[1:16:04] So that was kind of a part and that was

[1:16:06] a couple months ago. So

[1:16:07] >> yeah, got to do what you got to

[1:16:09] >> one operation that's still collecting

[1:16:10] cash outside of finance cemetery. If the

[1:16:13] transfer station closes, then there is

[1:16:15] no cash collection there, but the

[1:16:17] cemetery is still collecting cash and

[1:16:19] checks.

[1:16:20] >> Okay.

[1:16:23] >> But that's but like I said, uh the main my main concern is where we're

[1:16:27] headed with in sanitation.

[1:16:30] >> Yes.

[1:16:32] And and how many employees do you have?

[1:16:34] >> Uh counting myself 23.

[1:16:36] >> 23. Are you full staff?

[1:16:38] >> No, sir.

[1:16:39] >> You're short.

[1:16:41] >> Yeah, I'm short.

[1:16:42] >> Okay. All right. Um

[1:16:45] >> but but that was a discussion between

[1:16:47] Bart and I that that I agreed to hold

[1:16:49] off until at a later time.

[1:16:51] >> Correct.

[1:16:53] >> I mean, we're we're able we're able to do what's need to be done, but but it

[1:16:58] is

[1:17:00] constant. There's not, unfortunately,

[1:17:02] there's not a lot of room for

[1:17:03] extracurricular. And I don't mean fun

[1:17:06] stuff. I mean knee-jerk reaction like,

[1:17:09] hey, I need somebody here now kind of

[1:17:11] thing. It's

[1:17:12] >> right.

[1:17:12] >> It's, you know, it's balancing.

[1:17:15] >> Yeah.

[1:17:15] >> And that that hiring market is

[1:17:16] particularly challenging right now.

[1:17:18] >> Yeah.

[1:17:18] >> I can imagine. Yeah.

[1:17:20] >> Okay.

[1:17:23] >> Any other questions,

[1:17:27] » Tom? I will tell you I do enjoy visiting

[1:17:29] your employees. They they don't mind

[1:17:31] speaking up and that's what I

[1:17:33] appreciate. I mean last year they were

[1:17:35] more talkative than this year but they

[1:17:37] still still like to talk but that's why

[1:17:39] I come to listen to them and hear hear

[1:17:42] what's on their mind.

[1:17:44] >> I mean I can't snap my finger and change

[1:17:45] everything but we can address some

[1:17:47] issues. Well, cool. Concern.

[1:17:50] >> You know, you know, you know when you

[1:17:52] just asked Stacy, you know, how how's

[1:17:54] the

[1:17:56] morale? And I was thinking about that

[1:17:58] for myself. I'm like, how am I going to

[1:17:59] answer if he asked me that? It depends

[1:18:01] on the date. Really?

[1:18:04] >> Well, it depends on the bonuses.

[1:18:09] » Yeah, it depends on the date. But I

[1:18:10] think for but you know they it's human

[1:18:13] nature to to

[1:18:16] complain or you know

[1:18:19] >> whatever you know I don't want to put

[1:18:21] anything out but you know but yet they

[1:18:24] steady

[1:18:25] >> and they're there and

[1:18:26] >> that's the key.

[1:18:27] >> So there's got to be something to it. So

[1:18:29] you know some of them it's just their

[1:18:31] nature to negative negative negative.

[1:18:34] Yeah.

[1:18:34] >> And uh you know I'm going on my second

[1:18:37] year here. Amazing. And uh but I'm

[1:18:41] figuring the guys out, you know.

[1:18:42] >> Yeah. It takes time and

[1:18:43] >> some of them you're just never that's as you said it's it's human

[1:18:49] nature and everybody has a bad day.

[1:18:51] >> Yes, sir. It's all

[1:18:52] >> for whatever reason.

[1:18:53] >> Y

[1:18:54] >> but Tom, you you're doing a good job.

[1:18:55] Just keep it up.

[1:18:56] >> Thank you so much.

[1:18:57] >> Yeah. Do y'all have anything?

[1:19:00] >> And you'll hear more from me on Tuesday.

[1:19:02] >> Good deal.

[1:19:04] >> All right. Next is community economic

[1:19:07] development. So Mary stepped out.

[1:19:08] >> So we'll we'll

[1:19:09] >> Well, but but let's go ahead and talk. I

[1:19:10] don't want to hold you up because I have

[1:19:12] some familiarity with this. Haven't done

[1:19:14] it before.

[1:19:15] >> Okay.

[1:19:16] >> Mary stepped out for an event on the

[1:19:18] Hillside CDBG project. So actually it's

[1:19:21] good.

[1:19:22] >> I feel good about the fact she's not

[1:19:23] here. And the reason she's not she will

[1:19:25] be back.

[1:19:26] >> Trash pickup.

[1:19:27] >> But uh what I was going to tell you is

[1:19:29] well now CG and I talked about this.

[1:19:32] >> The department heads know what they're

[1:19:34] doing and can report. So

[1:19:37] basically my approach today was to let

[1:19:39] them deal with you directly and then

[1:19:41] fill in the gaps if they need to.

[1:19:43] >> Yeah.

[1:19:43] >> So if Mary were here,

[1:19:46] >> she'd be doing it. But I just just want

[1:19:48] to let you know, you see all the list of

[1:19:50] things that that department takes care

[1:19:51] of.

[1:19:52] >> The most obvious thing we're confronting

[1:19:54] is the growth and development that

[1:19:56] frankly we've never seen before. So you

[1:19:59] know, the process for all that before it

[1:20:01] gets to you guys for approval, it's

[1:20:02] vetted and reviewed by well, Mary. I

[1:20:05] mean, she does that. She negotiates with

[1:20:08] the developers based on the zoning

[1:20:10] ordinance and what we want to see and

[1:20:11] tries to get them to present something

[1:20:14] that's palatable. And, you know,

[1:20:16] frankly, she can't force that. So, often

[1:20:18] times there's probably going to be a

[1:20:19] subdivision coming to you within a

[1:20:21] couple of months that's going to feature

[1:20:22] elements of things that you're going to

[1:20:24] have to talk about when it gets to you.

[1:20:26] But, she's already tried to get those

[1:20:27] things in place. And I know that because

[1:20:29] we did it before.

[1:20:30] >> Is that a subdivision or is that a

[1:20:32] resoning? It's a resoning, but it's a

[1:20:34] resoning because

[1:20:36] >> Let me fill in that for you.

[1:20:38] >> Well, you know, you go ahead.

[1:20:40] Process. This is all about process.

[1:20:42] >> Yeah, it's all about process. The

[1:20:43] general assembly basically forced us

[1:20:46] into a straight jacket with respect to

[1:20:48] subdivisions and site plans. Um, was

[1:20:53] last year and we got ourselves into line

[1:20:55] on that. But the principal thing was

[1:20:59] that

[1:21:01] historically subdivision plats and site

[1:21:04] plans have gone to council in Bedford.

[1:21:07] And we were certainly not unique that

[1:21:08] way. That was I don't want to say it was

[1:21:11] the majority way to do things, but it

[1:21:13] was not unusual kind of in the west of

[1:21:15] Charlottesville region of the universe.

[1:21:18] Uh but the general assembly

[1:21:22] in their infinite wisdom decreed that needs to be undertaken by a staff

[1:21:28] member and that council neither council

[1:21:31] nor the planning commission can have the

[1:21:32] final decision on those and it shortens

[1:21:35] the timelines for approval such that it

[1:21:38] would be

[1:21:40] extremely difficult for the council to

[1:21:43] do review even if you wanted to. So, uh,

[1:21:47] that was per state law that was moved to

[1:21:50] being a staff, uh, function, which means

[1:21:54] that your role in the process is really

[1:21:59] limited to the legislative actions of

[1:22:01] doing resonings and actions on

[1:22:04] conditional use permits. So, you're not

[1:22:07] looking at the final product, you're

[1:22:08] looking at the parameters that the final

[1:22:11] product's going to have to fit into.

[1:22:13] >> Okay. Thank you. Now, sometimes there

[1:22:17] are cases where we have by right zoning.

[1:22:20] Let me mention that too. In Virginia and

[1:22:22] probably most places in the United

[1:22:24] States, if you have practice zoning,

[1:22:26] there's got to be something that you are

[1:22:27] allowed to do by right, which means

[1:22:30] basically we might have to document a

[1:22:32] permit for that. But if you're zoned

[1:22:35] single family and you meet all the

[1:22:36] regulations, zoning ordinance, we have

[1:22:38] to allow you to build that house.

[1:22:41] again comprehensive plan and the zoning

[1:22:43] ordinance revisions we've done we have

[1:22:45] to do the best we can to anticipate what

[1:22:47] the community standards are and

[1:22:48] establish that but somebody enforces

[1:22:51] that and in development terms that's

[1:22:53] Mary I I'm going to refer back to mayor

[1:22:55] so the planning and zoning

[1:22:57] administration stuff particularly with

[1:22:59] what we're seeing now is pretty

[1:23:01] intensive

[1:23:02] which is a good thing we're seeing

[1:23:04] growth we we say we want that now

[1:23:07] sometimes there are cases and this

[1:23:08] there's going to be a case coming to you

[1:23:09] soon where there's a property zoned R1

[1:23:12] and there are certain lot sizes that are

[1:23:14] allowed by right but developer says they

[1:23:16] want to get slightly smaller lots so

[1:23:19] they're going to request a reasonzoning

[1:23:20] to an appropriate category that allows

[1:23:22] that that's where they have to go

[1:23:24] through planning commission come to you

[1:23:26] guys there's a public hearing process

[1:23:29] it's somewhat negotiable but we also

[1:23:31] have to make sure that we manage

[1:23:33] everybody's rights

[1:23:35] >> and I can tell you process-wise

[1:23:37] having done it myself you meet with the

[1:23:39] developer They tell you their plan, you

[1:23:41] review it, and in light of what we've

[1:23:43] established and the changes they're

[1:23:45] proposing, you try to give them some

[1:23:47] guidance without overstepping.

[1:23:49] Because the other thing that changed

[1:23:51] since I started as planning director 26

[1:23:53] years ago was

[1:23:55] we used to make recommendations. Well,

[1:23:57] those can kind of get you in some

[1:23:59] trouble legally, particularly say staff

[1:24:01] recommends approval of something and

[1:24:02] then it doesn't go through. So about the

[1:24:05] only thing Mary can do is tell people,

[1:24:08] you know, this might be a problem or

[1:24:09] that might be a problem and then you've

[1:24:12] seen it before in other processes.

[1:24:13] Sometimes things come to you that you

[1:24:16] have to turn down because they didn't

[1:24:18] follow the advice

[1:24:19] >> and

[1:24:20] >> but all she can do is provide the

[1:24:21] advice.

[1:24:22] >> Correct.

[1:24:23] >> But she has to make that decision. Well,

[1:24:25] she she does make

[1:24:26] >> she does she manages that liability for

[1:24:29] like

[1:24:29] >> well I mean I'm

[1:24:32] think all all department has do a great

[1:24:34] job of I know Mary has a lot on her

[1:24:36] plate and and then I know there's areas that uh stand out but uh

[1:24:41] it's a whole lot she does that people

[1:24:43] don't know about don't see

[1:24:45] >> and I'm just talking about the planning

[1:24:46] and zoning part right now I mean we

[1:24:49] >> if you approve something then it has to

[1:24:50] be built the subdivision has to be we

[1:24:52] have to calculate assurityity to make

[1:24:54] sure the the things they're obligated to

[1:24:56] provide that we're going to take over

[1:24:58] happen. Mary manages that.

[1:25:01] >> Then on the zoning side, she manages the

[1:25:03] individual zoning permits for each unit.

[1:25:05] That's and again, you have to

[1:25:08] >> on the other side of that, there's the

[1:25:09] building office, which zoning says

[1:25:12] you're allowed to do a building is how

[1:25:13] you do it. And there's a separate set of

[1:25:14] codes. It's got to be safe. So, we have

[1:25:17] two people doing that now managing. We

[1:25:20] know 800 units that have been approved

[1:25:21] that can happen anytime.

[1:25:24] So that in and of itself in most places,

[1:25:28] zoning and building are full-time

[1:25:30] positions in and of themselves. So I

[1:25:32] know I've heard a lot of chatter and you

[1:25:34] guys have too about what does Mary do.

[1:25:35] That's one thing she does. That's just

[1:25:37] one hat she wears. In addition, the

[1:25:40] authorities and commissions that she

[1:25:42] serves as staff to, of course, planning

[1:25:44] commission, I mentioned housing

[1:25:46] authority is actively engaged. The fact

[1:25:48] Mary's not here right now because

[1:25:50] they're doing some work to rehabilitate

[1:25:52] houses up.

[1:25:54] and they can do that because they have

[1:25:55] the authority to do that. Council

[1:25:57] cooperates, but Mary's a sad person for

[1:25:59] that as well. Economic development

[1:26:01] authority, they're they're on the on the

[1:26:04] ground and running right now. Uh the

[1:26:07] middle school project, they were

[1:26:08] instrumental in working out the

[1:26:09] performance agreement, managing that,

[1:26:11] leveraging grants. Right now they're

[1:26:14] marketing WedoA as a

[1:26:18] metal working education site with a

[1:26:21] steel

[1:26:22] >> Mary's a staff person to that as well.

[1:26:24] So

[1:26:26] there are a lot of metrics that and I'll talk to individual but in this

[1:26:30] document I'll tell you we need to

[1:26:31] provide some of those are um in

[1:26:34] economical vacancy rates downtown.

[1:26:36] That's a metric we can report.

[1:26:38] >> The other thing is we have an enterprise

[1:26:40] zone which we've had for years. That's a

[1:26:43] that's an incentive program geared

[1:26:44] towards distressed communities.

[1:26:47] The good news is we're probably not

[1:26:48] eligible for that anymore. So the next

[1:26:50] time it's up for renewal, actually the

[1:26:52] program may go away, but there are a lot

[1:26:55] of metrics involved in that report that

[1:26:56] we can peel out and put here. Um,

[1:26:58] >> so what what will take its place or will

[1:27:00] anything?

[1:27:01] >> Nothing because we're not economically

[1:27:02] distressed anymore. Congratulations.

[1:27:05] That's the bad news.

[1:27:07] >> We're doing better. We would some of the

[1:27:10] um

[1:27:12] some of the incentive programs that are

[1:27:14] tied to enterprise zone we might have

[1:27:17] authority to do on our own and we may

[1:27:19] decide that we want to continue some of

[1:27:21] those things on a local basis um or on a

[1:27:26] more targeted basis. But I think

[1:27:29] probably we can talk about that once we

[1:27:31] become more sure that that program is

[1:27:33] actually going to go away.

[1:27:34] >> Yeah. And uh the next renewal cycle is

[1:27:37] pretty far off. I want to say 20 34 but

[1:27:38] don't quote me on that.

[1:27:40] >> Uh but also we can provide you with

[1:27:42] metrics about a number of permits and

[1:27:45] inspections code enforcement also

[1:27:48] anything that's not a criminal offense

[1:27:50] Jeremy and Daniel handle that mostly

[1:27:53] grass complaints which

[1:27:55] are more fun than you would expect them

[1:27:57] to be. But

[1:27:59] those are the kind of things again I'm just kind of covering that to keep

[1:28:02] you guys on track. I know Woody

[1:28:05] >> if you have any questions of me I'll try

[1:28:06] to answer them but when Mary gets back

[1:28:08] you can

[1:28:08] >> Well I know we brought brought Woody on or on

[1:28:14] >> Yeah. Thank you.

[1:28:15] >> Let me mention that. So Woody who we

[1:28:17] have under contract right now is a

[1:28:19] consultant who does well he's

[1:28:21] broadcasting this

[1:28:22] >> Yeah.

[1:28:22] >> for us right now. And I guess you hear

[1:28:24] me back there. In fact, Woody, if you

[1:28:25] want to come out of the Batcave there

[1:28:27] and talk about what you're as of July

[1:28:30] 1st as part of this budget, Woody will

[1:28:32] become an employee of the town. His

[1:28:33] title will be marketing and

[1:28:35] communications director. We have that

[1:28:36] description drafted and ready to go.

[1:28:40] He'll continue to do what he's doing for

[1:28:41] us at about the same rate just with the

[1:28:45] benefits that town employees get. I'll

[1:28:48] also tell you though, Woody provides a

[1:28:49] lot of services to the community with

[1:28:51] his business media squatch. We've talked

[1:28:54] to him about that that and we've I've

[1:28:56] had a few businesses come to me and

[1:28:58] express concern about him coming to work

[1:29:00] for town and no longer providing those

[1:29:01] services.

[1:29:03] We're going to manage that through our

[1:29:05] own processes, through outside

[1:29:06] employment, things like that. But my

[1:29:07] direction to Woody is to continue to

[1:29:10] provide those services to the business

[1:29:11] as long as they don't interfere with our

[1:29:13] needs and his role as an employee.

[1:29:16] >> And I'm on the hook for managing that.

[1:29:17] But really, as a you know, kind of

[1:29:21] concession to the community, Woody

[1:29:23] provides a lot of value to people beyond

[1:29:24] us and we want to allow him to continue

[1:29:27] to do that. and the degree to which

[1:29:29] that's scaled down as he ramps up things

[1:29:31] with the town in a little matter.

[1:29:32] >> Well, that's a skill set that we'll

[1:29:34] benefit from.

[1:29:35] >> Also, you had talked in October about

[1:29:37] hiring a downtown

[1:29:39] marketing person. Woody volunteered to

[1:29:42] take on those resources and because I'm

[1:29:43] chief and you pay me to be chief, I'm

[1:29:45] letting him do it. So, we've we've

[1:29:47] incorporated uh the downtown action

[1:29:50] strategy as part of that job

[1:29:51] description.

[1:29:52] >> All I can say is turn him loose. Okay.

[1:29:54] >> Turn him loose.

[1:29:54] >> And Woody, if you want to come out and

[1:29:55] say anything, come on out.

[1:30:00] He's smart. He's just going to stay

[1:30:01] inside.

[1:30:03] He's a man by the

[1:30:04] >> It's on a little delay.

[1:30:09] » I was asking Jim maybe wake him up, but

[1:30:12] yeah, it's like a 10sec delay. So,

[1:30:18] yeah. You got any questions? I mean,

[1:30:20] it's it's a great transition for me,

[1:30:22] though, because I've worked for

[1:30:25] um I've worked with businesses for the

[1:30:27] last four or five years as a studio and

[1:30:30] had a lot of community leaders,

[1:30:32] community businesses, community

[1:30:34] organizations come through. So, I'm

[1:30:36] really I don't know. I feel I feel

[1:30:38] blessed and ahead of the game because

[1:30:39] I've already got relationships built

[1:30:42] that I can work with, you know, for

[1:30:44] downtown and for an official marketing

[1:30:47] communications capacity.

[1:30:49] >> So, it's it's I think with the town

[1:30:52] growing as much as it is and Mart and I

[1:30:54] talked about it for a couple years, this

[1:30:56] it's necessary and the fact that I have

[1:30:59] already built relationships is actually

[1:31:01] a plus. And then with the downtown part,

[1:31:03] having experience in downtown Lynburg

[1:31:04] and stuff like that, um, It's just it's

[1:31:07] a win-win for me.

[1:31:09] >> I will say this to you, Woody, and I

[1:31:11] don't know if Bart passed this on. Of

[1:31:13] course, I my office when I was working

[1:31:16] was in Lynchburg. So, I saw a lot of

[1:31:18] change and 85 flood changed the lower

[1:31:21] basin forever, but it rebuilt came up to

[1:31:24] what it is now. And you you're very

[1:31:26] familiar with that as to how it got

[1:31:28] started in the 90s and what it is today.

[1:31:30] And once he told me you knew people that

[1:31:33] were involved in that and all that, I

[1:31:34] thought, put him to work. Yeah,

[1:31:37] >> because that's the one I refer to all

[1:31:38] the time, all the time. And that after

[1:31:41] the 85 flood, most people thought the

[1:31:43] lower basin should just be bulldozed

[1:31:44] into the James River. There was no hope.

[1:31:46] But they took those old warehouses,

[1:31:49] converted them into apartments and all

[1:31:51] that. It is just amazing what they have

[1:31:53] done. I mean, and where where I used to

[1:31:56] go in, we as I said earlier, we had the

[1:31:58] keys to all those vacant buildings

[1:32:01] >> and we go in and meet on the first

[1:32:02] floor, second floor, third floor. So,

[1:32:04] you know, old billings I like to explore

[1:32:07] and and and look at them, which didn't

[1:32:10] do any harm, but at the same time, you

[1:32:12] ought to wonder what could ever be done.

[1:32:14] Well, the 85 flood did that for them to

[1:32:17] where it's just amazing. And that that

[1:32:20] with that mindset, you can look at what

[1:32:23] does downtown Bedford need, what can be

[1:32:26] done, and what will work.

[1:32:28] >> So, as I just said, turn your loose.

[1:32:32] >> Yeah. They didn't get question.

[1:32:36] >> I have a crush on enterprise. Yeah, I

[1:32:38] remember when we done that,

[1:32:40] >> but I I couldn't remember we was getting

[1:32:42] any kind of funding or anything like

[1:32:44] that.

[1:32:44] >> Basically, it just opens doors to two

[1:32:47] specific grants that I'll mention. One

[1:32:49] is a real property investment grant, but

[1:32:51] that you have to spend $100,000 to get

[1:32:53] the benefit of that from the state, and

[1:32:55] the other is the job creation grant. you

[1:32:58] have for any job you create above the

[1:33:01] prevailing market rate I think you get

[1:33:03] some money for training and things like

[1:33:05] that. So that's but the other thing is

[1:33:07] it also authorizes us to wave certain

[1:33:09] fees. So within the enterprise zone we

[1:33:12] wave some zoning permit fees sign permit

[1:33:14] things like that. So those are the

[1:33:16] incentives are they're basically

[1:33:18] authorized and then when people invested

[1:33:21] a certain amount it does open up other

[1:33:23] things. I was just trying to remember I

[1:33:24] couldn't remember because we talked

[1:33:26] about it numbers of years ago

[1:33:28] >> and um I know Mary's got the numbers on

[1:33:31] how many incentives we funded through

[1:33:33] that.

[1:33:34] >> Okay.

[1:33:36] >> And any more questions if y'all have to

[1:33:38] know Mary when she gets back we can ask

[1:33:39] them. But uh any

[1:33:43] >> not just so the marketing communications

[1:33:46] that include just uh overseeing events

[1:33:48] and stuff in town as well?

[1:33:51] yeah, to the ex, but I do want to

[1:33:53] get your direction on events today based

[1:33:55] on our current policies. Now, I will

[1:33:58] tell you the administration of events

[1:33:59] right now goes through Tom.

[1:34:01] >> Okay.

[1:34:01] >> Um, as far as direct assistance with

[1:34:04] marketing and promotion of things like

[1:34:06] centerfest that we know about Woody

[1:34:08] would do that and I think we've written

[1:34:10] that in the job description, but but if

[1:34:12] we haven't, we will.

[1:34:14] >> But I do do want you all to talk about

[1:34:16] the way we manage special events.

[1:34:18] >> Sure.

[1:34:18] >> Because it is a budget issue.

[1:34:20] >> Yeah.

[1:34:21] And there are things done today like the

[1:34:22] website. Woody maintains the website for

[1:34:24] the town and Facebook page and social

[1:34:26] media that includes all of that as well.

[1:34:29] >> And just in case anybody asked you, the

[1:34:30] contract we have with Woody, we did bid

[1:34:32] out. So the other bid we received was

[1:34:35] three times what we're Sorry Woody, this

[1:34:37] offends you. Three times what we're

[1:34:38] paying Woody currently. So we do know

[1:34:41] what the market is for what we're doing.

[1:34:44] >> So what is cheap labor?

[1:34:46] >> All All of us are, but we know that. We

[1:34:49] we're here for bigger reasons.

[1:34:52] >> What do you what he likes to do?

[1:34:53] >> That's right.

[1:34:54] >> That's that's a better way to put it.

[1:34:56] >> So, what you're asking us is to talk

[1:34:58] about the special events because of the

[1:35:00] cost we're paying for

[1:35:01] >> recovery. Well, our fee I'll tell

[1:35:04] >> our fees won't cover the cost of what

[1:35:06] we're spending.

[1:35:06] >> Our fee currently recovers 20% the way

[1:35:09] it's written. Yeah. And then oftentimes

[1:35:11] we wave the fees and we get

[1:35:14] >> and then law enfor all those law

[1:35:16] enforcement costs all the different

[1:35:17] costs we have in

[1:35:20] >> and then my other thought was do we

[1:35:22] since we have Woody do we manage them on

[1:35:24] our own and do our own management of

[1:35:26] them that way. I mean because I think he

[1:35:29] could do as much as some of the

[1:35:30] organizations we have managing possibly

[1:35:34] I know it's putting a lot of woody but

[1:35:36] >> lot cheaper. I have a lot I haven't

[1:35:38] Well, I don't know it be any cheaper

[1:35:40] >> cuz the others work the others we pay a

[1:35:43] little bit of a fee to.

[1:35:44] >> Yeah. Well, let me just since you

[1:35:46] brought up Centerfest will be a good

[1:35:48] example. The Central Virginia Business

[1:35:49] Coalition

[1:35:50] >> does that and it's a pretty involved

[1:35:52] event and they inherited it from Main

[1:35:54] Street which is

[1:35:56] >> and we do heavily we do not charge a fee

[1:35:59] for that. That's also in our special

[1:36:00] events policy. And we also are a sponsor

[1:36:03] of the Central Virginia Business

[1:36:05] Coalition. I think 5,000 or 7500 7500

[1:36:08] last.

[1:36:08] >> Thank you. So

[1:36:12] yeah, we're getting an event for $7,500,

[1:36:15] but we're probably paying 15 to 20,000.

[1:36:20] So the net is about a $7,500 cost.

[1:36:25] Now, to the point, could Woody do

[1:36:27] everything that Heather Alto does with

[1:36:29] Central Virginia? I don't know, and I

[1:36:31] don't want to

[1:36:32] >> I mean, if you want to respond to that,

[1:36:34] you can, but my initial response is it's

[1:36:36] more than one person.

[1:36:37] >> It's it's a big they do a great job.

[1:36:39] Yeah. update

[1:36:41] >> and and

[1:36:42] it's it's a it's a lot of wrangling, but

[1:36:44] I think that part of what I would like

[1:36:47] to do is is just for the town to have a

[1:36:50] bigger presence in those events to then

[1:36:52] market the town and to I be more present

[1:36:55] for the community to come through

[1:36:56] because Centerfest is a fantastic

[1:36:58] opportunity for the town and and just

[1:37:01] that it takes place in the town is good,

[1:37:03] but the fact that we could be more

[1:37:05] involved and and in a way have a person

[1:37:08] directly working with Heather her team

[1:37:10] and and building the town's image and

[1:37:12] achieve better.

[1:37:13] >> Well, maybe working with the businesses

[1:37:15] to

[1:37:16] >> capitalize on that as well to give them

[1:37:17] advice about staying open or

[1:37:19] participating directly or selling.

[1:37:22] >> So, so we do receive So, we the you're

[1:37:25] talk the 20,000 does that come from food

[1:37:27] tax or we're

[1:37:29] >> do we get about the expense?

[1:37:31] >> No, I'm talking about do we get any fun?

[1:37:33] Do we get food?

[1:37:34] >> What's the benefit of those events?

[1:37:35] Well, we get meals tax and food trucks

[1:37:37] and things like that. It's not a

[1:37:39] substantial amount.

[1:37:41] >> Yeah.

[1:37:41] >> Okay. So, we're Yeah. So, we're really

[1:37:44] Yeah. So, it's more of a marketing side

[1:37:45] is what we really need to use it for.

[1:37:48] >> I would agree with that.

[1:37:50] >> Yeah.

[1:37:50] >> But we're going to talk more about that.

[1:37:52] >> And and there are certain events that

[1:37:54] we've identified as the institutions of

[1:37:56] themselves. the fireworks on July 3rd

[1:37:59] which we pay for centerfest and then the first week first Saturday in

[1:38:05] December there's the Christmas parade

[1:38:07] there's the Bedford YMCA 5K and there's

[1:38:10] been the tree lighting thing and all of

[1:38:12] those are things that we do not charge

[1:38:14] fees for because they are legacy events

[1:38:17] from either Main Street andor our

[1:38:19] recreation department or other things

[1:38:21] that we think the community has come to

[1:38:24] expect the town to provide

[1:38:26] >> and and I will say it's kind of like uh

[1:38:28] centerfest. Heather and her group does a

[1:38:31] great job on the parade. Also, they get

[1:38:32] it organized and it's pretty tedious. I

[1:38:35] mean, when you have 100 plus uh contest

[1:38:39] or people who want to be in the parade

[1:38:41] and you get them numbered and and when I

[1:38:45] was in it this year, this last year,

[1:38:47] last December, she told me exactly where

[1:38:49] I needed to be, behind, what person and

[1:38:51] all that. I mean, she had it down to a

[1:38:53] tea. So she and

[1:38:57] what good luck on that?

[1:38:59] >> No, she they do a great job.

[1:39:00] >> Yeah, they do a great job. I think

[1:39:02] there's just some things that we'd have

[1:39:04] to think good and long about if we

[1:39:06] wanted to pass them to someone else.

[1:39:08] >> And again, not on I understand at least

[1:39:10] one of you is involved in a parade event

[1:39:11] coming up. And that's

[1:39:14] >> quite an exercise in hurting cats, isn't

[1:39:15] it?

[1:39:16] >> Yes, it is.

[1:39:17] >> All right. Anything else? But we'll talk

[1:39:20] to John on electric and we'll take a

[1:39:22] break. So, John, what you got for us?

[1:39:24] What I can see your no goals or no

[1:39:27] measurements, but uh tell us what's

[1:39:29] going on.

[1:39:31] >> Well, obviously our number one priority

[1:39:32] is keeping the power on and trying to do

[1:39:35] that as at a reasonable price or the

[1:39:38] lowest price we can do it. Also, uh

[1:39:40] safety of our employees is is paramount

[1:39:43] to us.

[1:39:44] >> Yes.

[1:39:45] >> Uh I always tell our guys, the most

[1:39:47] important thing you're going to do today

[1:39:48] is come home safely tonight.

[1:39:51] Um so uh that's where we're going.

[1:39:55] Obviously we're trying to focus on our

[1:39:57] power cost uh which has uh grown over

[1:40:00] the past but we've taken some steps. The

[1:40:03] first one being the purchase from PTOAC

[1:40:06] to uh hedge a greater portion of our

[1:40:10] cost. So we know what those costs are

[1:40:12] going to be. They will be fixed once we

[1:40:14] go forward. So they're not going to be

[1:40:15] increasing.

[1:40:16] We also have a a whole slate of

[1:40:18] short-term purchases which BART is going

[1:40:22] to approve or has approved. I don't know

[1:40:23] where it stands, but we uh that will

[1:40:26] help uh hedge our future cost for the

[1:40:29] next year. Those are all short-term p

[1:40:31] purchases of one or two or three months.

[1:40:33] They're not long-term, but we look at

[1:40:35] the market continually. Uh I feel like

[1:40:39] sometimes I'm standing in quicksand

[1:40:41] because the market changes so much, not

[1:40:43] only from day to day, but hour to hour.

[1:40:46] There's all sorts of world events. You

[1:40:48] know, this thing going on with the

[1:40:49] Straight of Hormuz. How does that affect

[1:40:52] the town of Bedford? Well, it pushes

[1:40:54] prices up, pushes market prices up, it

[1:40:56] pushes diesel fuel cost up, all those

[1:40:59] things. So, we have a whole range of

[1:41:02] things that impact our budget, but we

[1:41:04] have a limited control over those

[1:41:06] things. So, it's very hard to say, okay,

[1:41:09] uh, one of your goals should be to

[1:41:11] reduce power cost. Well, if I controlled

[1:41:14] all the factors that impact power costs,

[1:41:16] I'd be comfortable with that. But I do

[1:41:19] not control those things. Those are

[1:41:21] things that just come at us. And one

[1:41:23] thing I want to point out in this budget

[1:41:25] is we've always paid a certain portion

[1:41:27] of administration,

[1:41:29] uh, treasury, finance, all those things.

[1:41:31] But that was always buried in in the

[1:41:35] actual accounts. this year. I think it's

[1:41:37] a good idea that uh that um Ann has

[1:41:41] broken that out separately so you see it

[1:41:43] now laid out clearly what those are. Uh

[1:41:46] and I think that this year our

[1:41:48] allocation has probably increased a

[1:41:50] little bit. Um so that's another area of

[1:41:53] our budget where all these things come

[1:41:56] at us, but we don't control that. Okay?

[1:41:59] Now, I'm not saying anybody's making

[1:42:01] imprudent decisions. I'm just saying

[1:42:03] that everything you see in our budget is

[1:42:05] not under our control.

[1:42:06] >> Yeah. I think we got we we have learned

[1:42:09] that.

[1:42:10] >> Right. Right. But we're working

[1:42:12] diligently to to make our energy supply

[1:42:16] sustainable uh as low as cost as

[1:42:18] possible and to try and further insulate

[1:42:21] against those events like we had last

[1:42:24] January and February where we had a mini

[1:42:27] uh polar vortex where we had those cold temperatures for such a long time.

[1:42:32] Uh this year we're going to be have a

[1:42:36] greater portion of our energy hedged so

[1:42:38] we'll be immune to those effects. So, as

[1:42:41] I look down the road, I don't see power

[1:42:44] costs increasing in a step way the way

[1:42:47] they have in the past, like when our

[1:42:49] capacity cost went up by 500%. I don't

[1:42:52] see that happening in the future. So,

[1:42:56] >> so it's a little more stabilization,

[1:42:57] >> a little bit more stabilization, greater

[1:42:59] percentage for energy hedging. So, as a

[1:43:02] result of that, and it's not really

[1:43:03] reflected in this budget, we'll probably

[1:43:06] be selling more energy on the market

[1:43:08] because we're we're hedging a higher

[1:43:10] percent to reduce our risk. Okay?

[1:43:13] >> So, that means we'll probably have a

[1:43:14] little excess energy to sell from time

[1:43:16] to time. But we work diligently with AMP

[1:43:20] and all the planning people there, all

[1:43:22] the weather forecasting folks. And by

[1:43:24] the way, we subscribe to a high level

[1:43:27] weather uh long-term forecasting service

[1:43:29] which I can make available to you folks

[1:43:31] because they give us regular

[1:43:33] presentations on what's going on this

[1:43:36] summer. They're expecting slightly

[1:43:38] warmer than normal temperatures and

[1:43:40] slightly drier than normal.

[1:43:43] >> Okay.

[1:43:43] >> So, what does that do for us?

[1:43:45] >> Wow.

[1:43:46] >> More air conditioning, probably more

[1:43:48] fires as a result of that.

[1:43:50] uh more air conditioning loads and less

[1:43:53] water for the hydro plants.

[1:43:55] So, that's probably not a good thing.

[1:43:58] >> Uh but uh I'd be happy to share all that

[1:44:01] information with you if you find it

[1:44:02] interesting.

[1:44:03] >> How about more wind?

[1:44:05] >> I wish. I wish. Well, Stacey, he doesn't

[1:44:09] want more wind because that makes the

[1:44:10] fires worse.

[1:44:12] >> That flames the fires,

[1:44:13] >> right? Well, that brings up an

[1:44:16] interesting point which we haven't

[1:44:17] talked about in the past. In California,

[1:44:19] for example, where they've had all those

[1:44:20] wildfires over the past few years, many

[1:44:23] of them have been caused by electrical

[1:44:26] failures.

[1:44:28] You know, a power line gets shorted out,

[1:44:30] it sparks, it starts a wildfire. Well,

[1:44:33] in California now, they're making the

[1:44:35] utilities pay for those costs.

[1:44:39] We should check with our insurance that

[1:44:41] we have some protection against

[1:44:43] wildfires

[1:44:44] >> going forward. It hasn't come to that

[1:44:47] point here in Virginia yet, but since

[1:44:50] Virginia is becoming California East,

[1:44:54] >> I wouldn't be surprised if it hits us at

[1:44:56] some point. So, we want to make sure we

[1:44:58] have some insurance against that. Stacy,

[1:45:00] you probably know more about this than

[1:45:02] I, but

[1:45:02] >> Well, we had the recent events up

[1:45:04] towards Big Island, but you're

[1:45:05] >> guess make sure the fire hydrants work.

[1:45:08] >> And while we're in, we have started our

[1:45:10] hydrant season and all that, but

[1:45:11] unfortunately where this happens, there

[1:45:13] aren't any hydrants. Oh, that's right.

[1:45:16] >> Yeah. So, we just had one and it was a

[1:45:20] luckily wasn't the town but out the way.

[1:45:24] Not that way. Sure. Not sorry. Forestry

[1:45:29] >> put a line around it. So, go back out

[1:45:32] there the next day forestry. But it does

[1:45:35] happen and we're not we're not immune to

[1:45:37] it.

[1:45:38] >> It's here.

[1:45:39] >> Yeah. It can happen anywhere.

[1:45:42] >> Yep. So with drier conditions, uh,

[1:45:44] probably have a pretty healthy fire

[1:45:46] season coming

[1:45:48] >> and, uh, unfortunately,

[1:45:51] so that's basically what I want to say.

[1:45:53] As Bart said, we concentrate on our

[1:45:55] response times. And that's one thing we

[1:45:58] do get complimented from our customers

[1:46:00] is they make a call, we're there within

[1:46:02] 15, 20 minutes, and they find that very

[1:46:05] comforting. Uh and I think our outage

[1:46:08] management system has gone a long way to

[1:46:10] improve our response times because now

[1:46:13] uh after hours for example the duty

[1:46:15] person will get that information

[1:46:18] immediately. He doesn't have to wait for

[1:46:20] what happens at dispatch or anything

[1:46:22] like that. He gets that information

[1:46:24] immediately and he can roll as soon as

[1:46:26] he gets it. So that's been a big help

[1:46:29] for us is is our outage management

[1:46:30] system.

[1:46:32] uh we do kind of have our own internal

[1:46:34] IT because we have our own SCADA system

[1:46:37] which is completely separate from the

[1:46:39] outside world uh and that's for security

[1:46:42] purposes but there will be more uh

[1:46:46] internet security cyber security uh

[1:46:48] requirements coming down to us and

[1:46:51] probably to the town in general but

[1:46:52] definitely to us as an electric utility.

[1:46:56] So um and then within PJM which is Mr.

[1:46:59] Mayor you know what PJM is. Yeah, all

[1:47:01] too well.

[1:47:02] >> Um, it it's kind of the overseer of of

[1:47:04] the grid in our region. There's all

[1:47:07] sorts of turmoil there now. We just

[1:47:09] don't know what's going to happen.

[1:47:12] >> And, uh, prices are kind of topped out

[1:47:14] for the next year or two, but after

[1:47:16] that, you know, we don't know what's

[1:47:18] going to happen. So, all we can do is be

[1:47:21] as prepared as we can. At the same time,

[1:47:23] we're trying to move forward with

[1:47:25] several projects. One of those being

[1:47:26] expanded capacity at Snowden, which is

[1:47:29] going to take a long time. It's going to

[1:47:30] be a long-term project. We've got some

[1:47:33] tobacco money to address that. Um the

[1:47:37] other is working with AMP on more local

[1:47:40] generation here in town, peaking units

[1:47:43] like we have on Arm Street. Uh of course

[1:47:46] we're always looking at things like

[1:47:47] battery storage. Um I'm hoping that some

[1:47:50] genius like Elon Musk comes up with a

[1:47:52] new battery system that changes the

[1:47:54] world.

[1:47:56] Um but um so we're constantly looking at

[1:47:59] options time. It takes time to evaluate

[1:48:02] those options and it's even slower to

[1:48:04] implement them. You hear the train now.

[1:48:08] Let me give you an example. Yesterday we

[1:48:10] were scheduled uh with Norfolk Southern

[1:48:13] to make a crossing uh over the railroad

[1:48:16] to get to the Wenoa property. Uh this

[1:48:19] has been in the works for six months at

[1:48:22] least. So, there's a process you go

[1:48:24] through to permit uh to get time to work

[1:48:28] around the railroad and get across the

[1:48:29] railroad.

[1:48:31] It requires a flagger. Believe it or

[1:48:34] not, the railroad has flaggers. Anyway,

[1:48:37] we scheduled all this through the

[1:48:38] railroad, got all our permits, paid all

[1:48:41] our fees. We show up there yesterday

[1:48:43] morning at 9:00. The flaggers show up

[1:48:46] and say, "You're not going to be able to

[1:48:48] get across today." What? What do you

[1:48:50] mean? We got a permit. It says right

[1:48:51] here we get across. No, there was a

[1:48:53] derailment in West Virginia and now

[1:48:56] we're going to have more trains coming

[1:48:57] through here than normal. You have no

[1:49:00] time to get across. So we had marshaled

[1:49:03] all of our people there. We had to set

[1:49:05] up everything and also some people from

[1:49:08] Norolk Southern showed up said, "Hey,

[1:49:10] what are you doing? You can't be here."

[1:49:12] Well, wait a second. We have a permit

[1:49:14] says we can cross today. Can't do it

[1:49:17] because of the derailment in West

[1:49:18] Virginia. So it would have been nice if

[1:49:20] they told you that.

[1:49:21] >> It would have been nice, but that's not

[1:49:24] the way the railroad works. You know,

[1:49:26] they have their own set of their own

[1:49:27] world that they operate in.

[1:49:29] >> I understand that.

[1:49:30] >> And everybody that's not affiliated with

[1:49:32] the railroad is you're you're

[1:49:33] insignificant.

[1:49:35] >> So we had two crews there. We had all

[1:49:38] these people, all this equipment, and we

[1:49:40] kind of wasted our morning waiting to

[1:49:42] get across the railroad, which we never

[1:49:44] got the clearance to do.

[1:49:46] >> So that's still a project to be done

[1:49:48] >> to be done. and we're going to have to

[1:49:49] pay again for another set of permits and

[1:49:53] to try and coordinate with the

[1:49:54] railroads. Finally, the railroad the the

[1:49:57] workers said to us, "You know what? It's

[1:50:00] best if you do this on a Saturday or

[1:50:02] Sunday. You might get across them." But

[1:50:05] the people in the office in Atlanta,

[1:50:07] Georgia, no, they don't want you to come

[1:50:09] on a Saturday or Sunday because they

[1:50:10] have to schedule somebody on overtime to

[1:50:12] be there with you.

[1:50:13] >> And so do you.

[1:50:14] >> And so do we. So, I don't know when

[1:50:17] we'll get it. We'll keep trying, but

[1:50:18] that's the that's the world we live in.

[1:50:20] >> It's the nature of the beast.

[1:50:22] >> We don't have control of all of these

[1:50:23] factors.

[1:50:24] >> That's right. Now, most of the time, we

[1:50:27] feel like a punching bag. We We do our

[1:50:28] best. We follow the rules, but it

[1:50:31] doesn't always work out the way we hope.

[1:50:34] >> Thank you, John. Any questions?

[1:50:37] I mean, we'll come back tomorrow. Y'all

[1:50:41] good? Thank you, John. I appreciate it.

[1:50:43] And your your employees are good, too.

[1:50:45] even though they don't talk as much as

[1:50:47] Tomms, but they're still good, but

[1:50:49] they're a dedicated bunch. And by being

[1:50:51] around them a number of times, they know

[1:50:53] what they're doing. And and and they

[1:50:56] strike me again as a bunch who they know

[1:50:58] their job. They know what has to be

[1:51:00] done. They just go out and do it. But

[1:51:02] let me just add one thing about

[1:51:03] employees. I we have a great group of

[1:51:05] guys now. We have a bunch of younger

[1:51:07] guys going through the apprentice

[1:51:09] program and working their way through to

[1:51:11] get experience. We just lost another

[1:51:14] fellow to Salem. Oh.

[1:51:16] >> So, since I've been here, we've lost 10%

[1:51:18] of our workforce to Salem.

[1:51:22] >> Are you fully staffed now or how? Not

[1:51:24] obviously.

[1:51:25] >> I think we have two slots open.

[1:51:27] >> A a lineman.

[1:51:28] >> Uh the guy that left was an apprentice.

[1:51:30] >> Okay.

[1:51:31] >> We'd like to hire an A-lineman, but we

[1:51:33] just we just have no luck hiring a

[1:51:36] lineman.

[1:51:37] >> What What are your numbers fully

[1:51:38] staffed?

[1:51:39] >> 25 or 26?

[1:51:41] >> 25. Okay.

[1:51:42] >> Yeah, I think we have one slot on the

[1:51:45] tree crew and one apprentice or a a any

[1:51:48] a lineman if we could hire them, but we

[1:51:50] just have been hiring apprentices.

[1:51:52] >> Okay.

[1:51:52] >> So, we are

[1:51:53] >> we did just have somebody join us who

[1:51:55] took a pay cut to come here. Now,

[1:51:57] >> obviously those results are not typical,

[1:51:59] but I think it does speak to the fact

[1:52:02] that John's doing something right.

[1:52:03] >> Yeah.

[1:52:03] I I think as far as morale goes,

[1:52:06] it's improved greatly since I came here

[1:52:08] 11 years ago. uh when I got here they

[1:52:11] were ready to kill each other uh which

[1:52:14] is not probably it's not unusual within

[1:52:17] a lineman culture but uh I think we're

[1:52:20] we've got a much better morale now and uh you know our our basic thing is

[1:52:26] of course salaries are always an issue

[1:52:27] for us and um every one of those guys

[1:52:31] could go someplace else and make more

[1:52:32] money

[1:52:33] >> but they're not doing it

[1:52:34] >> they're not doing it

[1:52:35] >> right

[1:52:36] >> well I mean you're right and I've said

[1:52:37] this a number of times Utility workers

[1:52:41] have their own language and their own

[1:52:43] way of doing things and their own

[1:52:45] attitude. So, you have to understand

[1:52:47] that.

[1:52:48] >> But, but they work together.

[1:52:50] >> Yes, they do.

[1:52:51] >> We appreciate what you're doing, John.

[1:52:53] >> Thank you.

[1:52:55] >> All right, let's take a 10-minute break,

[1:52:57] come back, we'll get into the meat of

[1:52:58] the thing, and I think Deborah will

[1:53:00] probably have a look for us. All right,

[1:53:03] go stretch out some.

[2:09:57] Guess

[2:10:09] he learned to stir the pot.

[2:10:13] Everybody's back. Let's get going again.

[2:10:15] Uh,

[2:10:17] >> it was it was asked of me, do we want to

[2:10:19] look at community agency funding on page

[2:10:22] 54? So, whatever comment you all have,

[2:10:25] let's take a look at it. I think that's

[2:10:26] pretty simple.

[2:10:27] >> That's that's my thought.

[2:10:29] >> Yes.

[2:10:30] >> Any any comments?

[2:10:31] >> Because we have access don't mean that

[2:10:33] everybody else. I think that's pretty

[2:10:35] much need.

[2:10:38] I appreciate that.

[2:10:42] >> Are we okay with that?

[2:10:43] >> Yes.

[2:10:43] >> Okay.

[2:10:45] >> That's a grant anyway.

[2:10:46] >> Yes, it is. Okay. From this point on,

[2:10:49] you all whatever you all have on your

[2:10:51] plate to talk about, let let it go.

[2:10:59] or do you want to go through each

[2:11:01] category

[2:11:02] CIP and so forth or how do you'all want

[2:11:05] to do this?

[2:11:06] >> I said let's just go through the

[2:11:07] categories we be jumping around

[2:11:11] everything

[2:11:11] >> I'm with you. Okay.

[2:11:15] Then

[2:11:17] the next is financials.

[2:11:24] Who's doing that? Ann

[2:11:27] Well, I mean, it's, you know, we kind of

[2:11:29] we just did the third quarter report to

[2:11:31] you current year. We the biggest

[2:11:34] adjustment is uh where we're recording

[2:11:37] these expenses more in the electric

[2:11:38] fund.

[2:11:42] Yeah, that section has trends, graphs,

[2:11:44] it discusses processes. It's got a chart

[2:11:47] in there about the different general

[2:11:50] ledger codes and who is associated with

[2:11:53] those codes like department wise. Um,

[2:11:56] this section really is to help you

[2:11:58] understand the general ledger reports

[2:12:01] that are at the back of the budget.

[2:12:03] >> It talks about the enterprise funds and

[2:12:05] all that.

[2:12:09] So y'all, what questions do you have on

[2:12:11] this one?

[2:12:13] >> Well,

[2:12:16] hey, on page page 64, then I just had a

[2:12:19] quick question of why like under the

[2:12:22] general fund undeid fund balance, there

[2:12:24] was a a big jump in the 22 to 23.

[2:12:27] >> I was just wondering what that

[2:12:29] >> Yeah, that's really when we used

[2:12:31] American Rescue Plan Act funding to

[2:12:32] recover some of our public safety

[2:12:34] expenses.

[2:12:36] >> All righty.

[2:12:42] Take 65

[2:12:45] the under business type activity

[2:12:47] self-sufficiency fund says that uh the solid waste fund is at 89%. So will

[2:12:54] that look that's going to look better

[2:12:56] this year?

[2:12:56] >> Correct. Yes. This is based on the last

[2:12:58] audited financial statement.

[2:13:01] >> So based on what we've done it'll

[2:13:02] probably be closer to 100% or closer to

[2:13:05] it. I think in 26 it's still going to be

[2:13:07] slightly under 100% because we're still

[2:13:10] making changes, but as of the budget

[2:13:12] that we're putting forward in 27, it

[2:13:14] should be at 100%. Cool. But

[2:13:25] » I do want to make a comment on that

[2:13:27] graph on page 65 for solid waste

[2:13:29] unrestricted net position. You'll see

[2:13:32] that we had a rather large negative

[2:13:34] balance. What's included in that is

[2:13:36] unfunded pension liabilities. So that's

[2:13:38] DRS. Also, when we close the landfill,

[2:13:42] we had a very large payable recorded to

[2:13:44] the general fund. And so we used cash to

[2:13:48] basically pay that off and say, you know

[2:13:50] what, it's always time you no longer owe

[2:13:52] us this liability. And so that is why

[2:13:54] that increased greatly in 23.

[2:13:57] >> Okay.

[2:13:58] But we'll I mean, but the trend will stay the same in the out

[2:14:04] years. I mean, those stuff will start to

[2:14:05] be negative.

[2:14:06] >> It will as long as that's on what we

[2:14:08] call a full acral basis of accounting

[2:14:10] because we're seeing those net pension

[2:14:12] liabilities out there that are rather

[2:14:14] large. And that's BRS. When you hear me

[2:14:16] say pension, it's the retirement system.

[2:14:23] » I did like the note in on page 66, your

[2:14:26] long range financial planning for I did

[2:14:28] like the note down toward the last

[2:14:30] paragraph about the everinccreasing

[2:14:32] inflation in both personnel. operating

[2:14:34] costs while revenues are not growing at

[2:14:36] the same inflationary rate.

[2:14:38] >> Yeah.

[2:14:38] >> So, we're spending more than coming in.

[2:14:41] >> Absolutely.

[2:14:42] >> I know we had that discussion in a

[2:14:44] department meeting with the new

[2:14:46] construction coming on off independence

[2:14:48] and what that'll bring in in real estate

[2:14:49] taxes. And when you calculate what our

[2:14:51] 28 cents brings in, it's so much smaller

[2:14:54] than you imagine. Very little revenue

[2:14:56] compared to growth.

[2:14:59] Yeah, that's another topic for

[2:15:02] discussion at some point

[2:15:06] » and this Okay, so I'm sorry. Sorry, I'm

[2:15:09] doing all the time. You guys will jump

[2:15:11] in.

[2:15:11] >> That's why we're here.

[2:15:12] >> Okay, but the on the where it says debt,

[2:15:14] no additional debt is included in the

[2:15:16] forecast. That's I mean I guess that's

[2:15:19] general fund stuff, but we are including

[2:15:22] looking at debt for the capital

[2:15:24] improvement, right?

[2:15:25] >> That's right. So, it's included in

[2:15:27] contingency because we don't know what

[2:15:28] that is yet. We kind of have four of

[2:15:31] those numbers on what the annual payment

[2:15:33] is and we've set it in contingency for

[2:15:35] that.

[2:15:35] >> Okay.

[2:15:41] » So, do you think on page 67 current real

[2:15:44] estate tax said we we won't give it you

[2:15:47] don't anticipate a huge increase then

[2:15:49] based on how about the reassessment? You

[2:15:51] think we'll get a little bump there? I'm

[2:15:53] hoping we will because every time we do

[2:15:55] a reassessment it does go up. I mean the

[2:15:58] last two times it's gone up about 20,000

[2:16:01] a year. So I'm thinking that we'll get

[2:16:04] another bump like that again.

[2:16:07] >> The last one did that include when the

[2:16:10] real estate

[2:16:12] values went sky high or

[2:16:14] >> we had a we had a blend going on that

[2:16:17] year because we had the boundary

[2:16:18] adjustment and we had a reassessment.

[2:16:20] >> Okay. So we had two factors that

[2:16:22] contributed. You'll see real estate

[2:16:24] taxes went up greatly

[2:16:26] >> from fiscal year 23 to 24.

[2:16:28] >> Yeah.

[2:16:29] >> Okay.

[2:16:32] >> I just saying as you as you're talking

[2:16:33] about taxes in here and I'll flip back

[2:16:36] to the page 14 comparing us to other

[2:16:40] communities.

[2:16:41] Ours is

[2:16:44] probably behind uh Lynchburg and Venton.

[2:16:48] Ours is probably one of the higher ones.

[2:16:51] And so I was kind of how are the other

[2:16:54] ones

[2:16:57] performing as compared? Yeah. How are

[2:16:59] they keeping them so low? Yeah. And and

[2:17:01] the other thing that I noticed on that

[2:17:03] same graph,

[2:17:06] our town's percent or contributions to

[2:17:10] the total tax town and county, uh it

[2:17:14] seems to be a little higher than what

[2:17:16] the other towns are are paying for the

[2:17:20] are charging for the taxes. So,

[2:17:22] >> it just depends. Every locality has

[2:17:25] their own flavor I will say of how they

[2:17:27] charge revenues to pay for services and

[2:17:31] I think it depends on what the community

[2:17:33] can afford to pay and what where they

[2:17:35] were willing to pay it. So ours has been

[2:17:37] on real estate tax primarily because we

[2:17:39] were a city and when we reverted we kept

[2:17:41] a stable rate with the county and so we

[2:17:44] said okay our citizens are used to

[2:17:46] paying this real estate tax and we want

[2:17:47] to keep it that way and so that's where

[2:17:50] the reversion had us at a higher rate

[2:17:52] than those towns.

[2:17:53] >> Now there's other things that other

[2:17:54] towns are charging that we are not that

[2:17:57] could blend. So, for example, our

[2:17:59] neighbors in Benton and Rocky Mountain

[2:18:01] have a license fee that we are not

[2:18:04] charging. That brings in around $120,000

[2:18:06] a year.

[2:18:07] >> I mean, there's other things that they

[2:18:09] are charging, but we are not like

[2:18:11] machinery tools. And the issue is is

[2:18:14] that those localities are used to pay

[2:18:17] it. There's a certain steadiness

[2:18:19] involved in it. And so, whenever you

[2:18:20] talk about change,

[2:18:22] >> you're changing what people are paying,

[2:18:24] what they're used to paying. So in

[2:18:27] Bedford's case, I think we have had a

[2:18:29] higher real estate tax because our our

[2:18:32] residents were used to paying that

[2:18:33] combined total rate as a city and so

[2:18:36] it's just kind of continued. But there

[2:18:38] are other ways you could become more

[2:18:40] competitive like a vehicle license fee.

[2:18:42] You'll see many towns charge that. We

[2:18:44] don't. And then machinery and tools,

[2:18:47] many towns charge that. We do not. And

[2:18:50] then the business license, we have much

[2:18:52] lower rates than most of our neighbors.

[2:18:54] Although you have to go to each

[2:18:55] individual uh locality to see their

[2:18:58] rates because there's such a difference

[2:19:00] how people are charging and what

[2:19:05] I hope that helps. The other thing is um

[2:19:07] our next door neighbor, the town of

[2:19:09] Benton, they have a really low tax rate,

[2:19:13] but they also have special legislation

[2:19:15] that allows them to get full percentage

[2:19:17] of sales tax from the county. I believe

[2:19:20] they're the only town in the state of

[2:19:21] Virginia that gets that. But their sales

[2:19:23] tax coming in is more than double what

[2:19:25] we were receiving. They get about a

[2:19:27] million a year in from the county. That

[2:19:28] balances their budget.

[2:19:32] >> But don't they also pay tax to Reno

[2:19:35] County?

[2:19:36] >> Mhm.

[2:19:36] >> Yes.

[2:19:37] >> Which is what, a dollar and something?

[2:19:38] >> 340.

[2:19:40] >> Yes.

[2:19:40] So yeah.

[2:19:43] So, I mean, I I heard I've heard people

[2:19:46] talk about how low that tax rate is, but

[2:19:49] and I don't get into any back and forth.

[2:19:50] I'm thinking it's just like the town, we

[2:19:54] pay the county tax also.

[2:19:56] >> So, they're doing that around the

[2:19:58] county.

[2:19:58] >> Correct. That's right.

[2:19:59] >> Okay.

[2:20:02] >> Yeah. And that's where when I was

[2:20:03] talking about real estate tax, I was

[2:20:05] comparing the town and the county

[2:20:07] together.

[2:20:08] >> Yeah.

[2:20:08] >> For all of them. And that's where town

[2:20:10] of Venton actually is the highest it

[2:20:11] looks like. M

[2:20:12] >> Oh, other than Ron Oak City, right,

[2:20:14] >> and Salem,

[2:20:17] >> but the out of the towns, Benton was the

[2:20:20] highest.

[2:20:22] >> Yeah.

[2:20:25] >> All right.

[2:20:27] So, meal tits. Um, we got I remember I

[2:20:31] mentioned this assess a while back about

[2:20:35] looking into we trending that we making

[2:20:38] money on that or we need to look into

[2:20:40] that. is still overall down. We're

[2:20:43] hoping and deals is reopening. So, we're

[2:20:45] hoping that that will help growth that

[2:20:47] we're going to see next month, but at

[2:20:49] the moment, the last time I checked it,

[2:20:51] we're still forecasting to be about

[2:20:52] $100,000 less than last year.

[2:20:59] » We're sitting at 5.5% meal tax now.

[2:21:03] >> The average is six, some is four, um,

[2:21:07] but the average is about six through the

[2:21:09] whole meal taxes. So, I didn't know we

[2:21:12] half we find that next month. Do we need

[2:21:14] to look into that or what else?

[2:21:16] >> And I will say uh half a percent on our

[2:21:18] meals tax today is around 170 to

[2:21:21] $180,000

[2:21:22] a year.

[2:21:26] » And and that may be something we wait

[2:21:28] until a year from now and then look at

[2:21:30] because that could be some of the

[2:21:31] recovery cost the 750,000.

[2:21:34] you kind of weigh what is usually done

[2:21:36] the previous year

[2:21:38] >> to see if we need to raise it to to make

[2:21:40] up or Yeah,

[2:21:42] >> because we may it may increase just like

[2:21:45] Ann said with that with the be opening

[2:21:47] back up and some others.

[2:21:49] >> And I hear that's doing pretty good.

[2:21:52] >> Mhm.

[2:21:56] » So, are we going to

[2:21:59] So, we going to talk about revenue

[2:22:01] later? I mean, I don't want to be

[2:22:04] jumping around. I kind of if we can go

[2:22:05] through expenses and stuff, but then

[2:22:07] talk about revenue, that'd be fine. But

[2:22:09] >> well, when we go to the budget, I think

[2:22:11] we'll the revenues are the first part of

[2:22:12] the budget.

[2:22:13] >> Okay.

[2:22:14] Well, I mean, when I talk when I

[2:22:16] mean revenue, I mean

[2:22:18] >> taxes,

[2:22:18] >> additional revenue taxes.

[2:22:21] >> Increasing taxes. Well, like I said, the

[2:22:23] challenge for me with increasing taxes,

[2:22:25] we're going to start charging people $25

[2:22:28] to $50 more a month for electric bills

[2:22:30] now.

[2:22:34] got to be careful.

[2:22:35] >> Yeah. I mean,

[2:22:35] >> I know there's a balance, but there's

[2:22:37] also a balance of we're we're losing

[2:22:40] money and not bringing enough in and at

[2:22:42] some point the town's not going to be

[2:22:44] >> Well, I agree. I I don't disagree. I I

[2:22:46] see it with both sections with the Yeah.

[2:22:48] >> theory that the weather had an impact on

[2:22:51] tax this year.

[2:22:52] >> No, I understand what you're saying.

[2:22:55] That's why I was comparing, you know.

[2:22:57] >> Well, that's why I'm saying I think we

[2:22:58] need to we we need to have discussion

[2:23:01] and then have maybe have a road map of

[2:23:04] what we're going to do because we're

[2:23:05] losing 750,000 in a couple of years.

[2:23:08] We're going to,

[2:23:09] >> you know, and there's other things

[2:23:10] coming down the pike. And it's just if

[2:23:13] we don't do something now and we wait

[2:23:15] till later to put a plan in place, it's

[2:23:18] just going to be harder later on to make

[2:23:20] up and what did it be now? So anyway,

[2:23:23] >> well, I mean, we can talk about that

[2:23:24] taxes and fees or

[2:23:25] >> Yeah, that'd be great.

[2:23:26] >> Yeah.

[2:23:28] >> And what I was looking at, I was looking

[2:23:29] at like, you know, the meal tax or

[2:23:31] lodging tax and stuff like that because,

[2:23:33] you know,

[2:23:35] I don't want to hurt our citizens or

[2:23:37] anything like that, but I want to catch

[2:23:39] that revenue that if we had visitors or

[2:23:42] we had people coming through the town or

[2:23:43] coming off the peaks or coming visit DJ

[2:23:46] or come visit our little town, that

[2:23:49] would be revenue that we could catch

[2:23:51] right there.

[2:23:52] and process and then that won't be

[2:23:54] directly to

[2:23:56] um personal property or nothing like

[2:23:58] that. That's what I was thinking.

[2:24:00] >> Okay.

[2:24:01] >> So, one thing I would recommend is if

[2:24:03] you do want to do a meals tax change to

[2:24:05] give about a three months notice for

[2:24:07] vendors so they have time to change all

[2:24:09] of their um merchant processing devices

[2:24:12] and update the rate.

[2:24:17] » I know it does take time.

[2:24:20] I don't think I if we made a decision.

[2:24:30] » All right. What else?

[2:24:33] » Are we okay on the rest of this or just

[2:24:37] sorry but question?

[2:24:39] >> Keep it going.

[2:24:40] >> The same with the mill tax. Just the

[2:24:42] comment here says that the current rate

[2:24:44] set at 5 a.5% with excess collections

[2:24:47] over 5% designated spent solely for

[2:24:49] economic development per town code. So

[2:24:52] if we happen to raise let's just say the

[2:24:54] mill tax is 6%. Does that mean one 1%

[2:24:57] goes to the economic development?

[2:24:59] >> It's up to you. So it's designated by

[2:25:02] town ordinance that half% goes to

[2:25:04] economic development. So you have full

[2:25:06] control over that. You could also say

[2:25:08] the half a percent would no longer go to

[2:25:10] economic development. You just have to

[2:25:11] adjust the

[2:25:13] >> we Yeah, we could we can actually say

[2:25:15] that that half a percent would go to a a

[2:25:17] future to a an account to hold for to

[2:25:21] cover for the 750,000.

[2:25:23] >> All right.

[2:25:24] >> Cuz because Mary and the economic

[2:25:26] development authority get that half

[2:25:28] percent.

[2:25:28] >> Yeah. I don't I don't just I just didn't

[2:25:30] know if it was automatic that if we you

[2:25:32] know if it said it goes Yeah.

[2:25:35] >> that automatic 1% extra would go after

[2:25:37] >> just that just that five go.

[2:25:39] >> Yeah. I just I I agree with keeping the

[2:25:41] 5% definitely or half a percent or

[2:25:43] something.

[2:25:45] >> Well, why are we on taxes?

[2:25:48] All these homebased businesses, they

[2:25:49] don't pay any taxes when they do the

[2:25:51] stuff out of their house, right?

[2:25:53] >> Well, they do apply for business license

[2:25:55] and they have a business license tax.

[2:25:58] So, we do have that, but it's only the

[2:26:00] application fee unless they generate

[2:26:02] over the $250,000 a year.

[2:26:06] >> So, it depends on how much they're

[2:26:08] generating out of their home,

[2:26:11] >> but they don't pay taxes like we do,

[2:26:14] like I do.

[2:26:15] >> If it's a food, if it's food, they

[2:26:18] should, shouldn't they?

[2:26:19] >> Correct. If they're serving food to eat

[2:26:21] on premise, if they're serving it to go

[2:26:24] away, then probably not. it would just

[2:26:26] be a retail sale.

[2:26:31] » So if they're delivering food or meals,

[2:26:33] I'm just curious then they wouldn't have

[2:26:35] to pay the meal tax if somebody's

[2:26:37] >> I have to look actually, you know, it

[2:26:38] depends. So one instance is when

[2:26:41] somebody who wants to go around town

[2:26:42] with a cart of prepackaged factory

[2:26:45] foods.

[2:26:46] >> So on that one, they're itinerant

[2:26:49] vendor, peddler, perishable. They don't

[2:26:52] pay anything other than our fees for

[2:26:54] doing so. Now, if you do have like an at

[2:26:56] home bakery, that's probably what you're

[2:26:58] talking about. That's prepared food. So,

[2:27:00] they would pay

[2:27:01] >> or b or somebody to prepare meals and

[2:27:03] delivered meals.

[2:27:04] >> Correct.

[2:27:05] >> If it's packaged food for sale off

[2:27:08] premises, like factory package, then we

[2:27:11] do not charge a meals tax on that.

[2:27:15] Was

[2:27:17] that the kind of business you were

[2:27:18] talking about or

[2:27:19] >> Well, yeah, because I mean so many

[2:27:21] homebased businesses

[2:27:24] now, way more than it was before. I

[2:27:28] mean, because when you go through there,

[2:27:29] there's like tons of people doing stuff

[2:27:32] out of their house now. And if they're

[2:27:34] not paying taxes like we are,

[2:27:37] >> then that's a lot of tax loss. Well,

[2:27:39] it's also a planning and permitting

[2:27:41] issue as well because they're supposed

[2:27:43] to be applying for a permit to operate

[2:27:46] business out of their home.

[2:27:48] >> So, it becomes both a business license

[2:27:50] issue and I'd walk next door to Mary and

[2:27:52] say, "Hey, did they get a permit to

[2:27:54] actually do this?"

[2:27:55] >> Yeah. Or in zoning, too. I guess they'd

[2:27:57] have to be zoned properly

[2:27:58] >> because like I remember when I first

[2:28:00] started, the health department would

[2:28:01] come to my house and inspect it and

[2:28:04] stuff and everything when I used to do

[2:28:05] cakes out of the house and how to get

[2:28:08] all that But

[2:28:13] » that's

[2:28:13] >> I mean not just picking on people that

[2:28:15] bake out of their houses, but I mean

[2:28:17] there's a lot of other things that

[2:28:18] people do out of their houses and sales,

[2:28:21] but if we're not collecting taxes on I

[2:28:23] mean that's a huge

[2:28:31] » There's a homestead law and I'm not

[2:28:34] super aware of it, but it like exempts

[2:28:36] some of the health department inspection

[2:28:38] type of for small sales. There's certain

[2:28:40] things that are associated with that

[2:28:43] like poultry and eggs and small things.

[2:28:47] But Mike may be more aware of that than

[2:28:49] I am.

[2:28:51] >> I'm not I was just thinking the same

[2:28:53] thing that you just said that prep the distinction between a prepared food

[2:28:59] and an and a food sale

[2:29:03] where you're basically a grosser. It

[2:29:05] gets really really complicated.

[2:29:08] But to your point, they are most are

[2:29:12] supposed to get

[2:29:14] um if you're selling a prepared food,

[2:29:16] you're supposed to have the health

[2:29:17] department stuff. You're supposed to

[2:29:20] have a home occupation permit from Mary

[2:29:24] and you're supposed to be paying

[2:29:27] u your meals tax again, which meals tax,

[2:29:31] behold tax can can depend upon your

[2:29:34] size. So uh but To your point,

[2:29:41] I would strongly suspect that there are

[2:29:43] people who are evading the rules or just

[2:29:46] aren't fully aware and are just going

[2:29:49] off and doing their own thing and

[2:29:50] getting away with it, but they're not

[2:29:53] supposed to. They're supposed to be

[2:29:54] under the same rules as a as a

[2:29:56] standalone establishment.

[2:29:59] Again, a standalone establishment with

[2:30:02] similar receipts which can vary.

[2:30:11] » Are we good?

[2:30:15] » What What else? What page should I ask?

[2:30:20] >> I'm sure you got something on 68.

[2:30:23] I'm sure we'll talk about it uh

[2:30:26] separately, but under on page 70,

[2:30:29] >> the recovered recovered cost that we

[2:30:31] talking about with special events and

[2:30:33] stuff, you know, that we aren't cap,

[2:30:37] we're not capturing, you know, the true

[2:30:40] cost of the events we're doing.

[2:30:43] You know, I think the PD, Tom's folks,

[2:30:46] and everything are taking a big hit

[2:30:48] because we're only if we're recovering

[2:30:50] anything, we're only recovering 20%,

[2:30:52] right?

[2:30:53] >> Per policy. Yes.

[2:30:54] >> Policy.

[2:30:55] >> And And do we recover 20%? We don't

[2:30:57] cover 20% like centerfest or those other

[2:31:00] events. Is that right?

[2:31:02] >> And then uh yeah, I'll just I've got a

[2:31:05] Richard, like I said, some of the

[2:31:06] biggest events we it's also within the

[2:31:09] policy. We don't recover anything from

[2:31:10] money

[2:31:12] >> cuz I think you said it was like $27,000

[2:31:16] we spent on Centerfest.

[2:31:18] >> Yeah. And I'm sorry. I'm the most recent

[2:31:21] figures I had from public works and

[2:31:23] police. Actually, it was just public

[2:31:25] works. Centerfest cost $8,300. Now, the

[2:31:28] police is in addition to that. And then

[2:31:31] we also had some one-time costs for

[2:31:32] electric. I know.

[2:31:36] But at a minimum, it's costing us

[2:31:38] $8,300.

[2:31:39] >> Yeah. And then

[2:31:40] >> plus the $7,500 sponsorship.

[2:31:42] >> Yeah.

[2:31:43] >> Well, and I guess John, you pay some

[2:31:45] people over time to work center.

[2:31:47] >> Well, we haven't done it in the last

[2:31:48] year.

[2:31:49] >> You haven't had

[2:31:50] >> No, but we we used to have a crew up

[2:31:52] there in case they had problems. We

[2:31:54] installed a bunch of power boxes around

[2:31:56] for people to use. So last year, we just

[2:31:59] had if something came up, the on call

[2:32:01] guy would just come over.

[2:32:03] No, we don't put a crew over there

[2:32:04] anymore like we used to.

[2:32:08] >> That was back when I was still working

[2:32:10] when you were doing that

[2:32:13] >> back in back in the old days.

[2:32:14] >> Back in the day.

[2:32:15] >> Back in good old days. Yeah.

[2:32:18] >> Well Well, Barton, do you have any

[2:32:20] thoughts on if we raise that percent

[2:32:22] what would be comparable 50% or I'm just

[2:32:26] throwing thoughts out there for

[2:32:28] discussion here. I I will tell you

[2:32:31] >> we didn't have a policy until

[2:32:34] four or five years ago

[2:32:35] >> and then when we did 20% was just a

[2:32:38] number that came out of thin air and

[2:32:40] that's what we adopted.

[2:32:41] >> That's kind of what I thought.

[2:32:42] >> Anything more would help us recover

[2:32:44] cost. Mhm.

[2:32:45] >> I don't know how

[2:32:50] much impact it would have in terms of

[2:32:51] chasing events away if we said Well,

[2:32:53] actually, I will tell you this came

[2:32:55] about a few years ago because there was

[2:32:57] somebody that wanted to have a 5K race

[2:33:00] on Memorial Day weekend. We calculated

[2:33:02] what the cost was, told them that they

[2:33:04] didn't want to pay it, so I told them

[2:33:06] no. Then they came to council, not this

[2:33:09] council,

[2:33:10] and asked council for their answer. And

[2:33:12] council said no. But then the person

[2:33:15] came back and made a impassion plea and

[2:33:17] council said yes. So we ate that. The

[2:33:21] next year that's what prompted this

[2:33:23] policy. So the next year when I quoted

[2:33:26] them 20% of our cost for that which was

[2:33:29] about 20% of our cost was like three or

[2:33:31] 400. They didn't want to pay it but we

[2:33:33] had a policy.

[2:33:35] The the issue is whatever policy we

[2:33:38] adopt.

[2:33:40] It's like anything else. I'll enforce

[2:33:42] it, but they can always appeal to

[2:33:45] council

[2:33:47] >> and we have to go back to the policy.

[2:33:50] >> Yes, we all should go back to code

[2:33:51] policy. Yes.

[2:33:53] >> Not that you feel sorry for it.

[2:33:55] >> I mean,

[2:33:58] certainly 50% is reasonable.

[2:34:02] We could we could poll the ones that we

[2:34:04] deal with and ask them if 100% would

[2:34:06] chase them out.

[2:34:08] Again, the assumption is I have this

[2:34:10] conversation in my house. Why did you

[2:34:12] charge Liberty High School a $50 fee for

[2:34:14] homecoming?

[2:34:15] >> Well, really, I should have charged them

[2:34:17] $180, but

[2:34:19] >> Well, because it cost something.

[2:34:22] >> Well, and I think in today's changing

[2:34:25] times, and that's where we are. We have

[2:34:27] to always constantly reeval re-evaluate

[2:34:30] these things because we cannot continue

[2:34:33] to lose money

[2:34:35] or at least that much. We we're going to

[2:34:37] make donations here and there with like

[2:34:39] the fireworks and and probably

[2:34:41] centerfest

[2:34:43] Christmas parade, but we should be able

[2:34:47] to recoup a larger amount.

[2:34:51] So, give me y'all's thoughts.

[2:34:52] >> So, how much in all special event

[2:34:55] policies do we lose a year? But you told

[2:34:57] me about 60 something,000.

[2:34:58] >> Yeah, let me kind of So, when we figure

[2:35:01] in the sponsorships as well, we also pay

[2:35:03] D-Day.

[2:35:05] We spent $69,550

[2:35:08] based on what the departments reported

[2:35:10] and we recovered

[2:35:12] 8,2 we're planning to recover 8,200 of

[2:35:15] that. 7500 is the county willing to pay

[2:35:17] for fireworks some of it. So it's it's

[2:35:21] bordering on $70,000 in cost for what we

[2:35:25] provide in services.

[2:35:28] And I know I know me you had discussion

[2:35:31] we talk about fireworks too. I mean

[2:35:33] that's a big chunk of money recently has

[2:35:36] come up where it used to be split

[2:35:37] between three different

[2:35:39] >> and the county is participating this

[2:35:40] year Robert.

[2:35:41] >> All right. Good.

[2:35:41] >> Robert I but I mean it's and this year

[2:35:44] since it's the 250th is going to be a

[2:35:46] bigger show than normal. So having

[2:35:48] talked to the vendor by the way we also

[2:35:50] need to go through procurement with

[2:35:51] that. That cost should go down after 26

[2:35:55] 27

[2:35:57] and as long as we continue to play well

[2:35:59] with the county they probably will help

[2:36:01] us out. Yeah. Well, that's okay. That's

[2:36:03] good. I'm glad to see that relationship

[2:36:06] come back to to some degree.

[2:36:09] >> Um,

[2:36:10] >> and for people who asked, we do have a

[2:36:12] really good working relationship with

[2:36:13] Bedford County and do not underestimate

[2:36:15] the value of that.

[2:36:16] >> Yes, totally agree 100%. Um, so, okay,

[2:36:20] let's let's what are the the biggies?

[2:36:23] The Centerfest Christmas Parade and

[2:36:27] Fireworks.

[2:36:30] » Yes. Let's see. Centerfest. Uh, again,

[2:36:32] if you throw in the sponsorship, it's

[2:36:35] $15,000.

[2:36:37] Christmas parades, $4,300. The Peaks of

[2:36:40] Otter 5K race is $5,500.

[2:36:45] Um, the Independence Day thing is has

[2:36:49] apparently is going to be

[2:36:49] self-supporting that Jonathan Aiden is

[2:36:51] doing. Yeah, he's charging he's not

[2:36:53] charging admission this time. He's got

[2:36:54] sponsorships.

[2:36:55] >> And the fireworks are going to be 35,000

[2:36:58] in the budget, I think. Yeah, but that's

[2:37:01] typically they're

[2:37:04] 30,000 or less and it's trended upward

[2:37:07] with costs lately.

[2:37:08] >> Yeah, it used to be around 17,000

[2:37:12] going to be double this year.

[2:37:14] >> It's a bigger show and they cost more

[2:37:16] because of things like tariffs and the

[2:37:19] straight of horm from China

[2:37:22] >> for the events.

[2:37:23] >> I just wanted to throw in now we have

[2:37:25] the car.

[2:37:27] >> Oh yeah.

[2:37:28] >> Okay. And we're still we're still trying

[2:37:31] to peg that.

[2:37:32] >> But

[2:37:33] >> they did pay their calculated 20.

[2:37:35] >> I was going to say we passed some of

[2:37:37] those costs on to them though.

[2:37:39] >> Yeah.

[2:37:39] What's that? Currently we're at

[2:37:41] like uh 3,000 or something. Does that

[2:37:44] sound right?

[2:37:45] >> Well, my thinking is if you pull those

[2:37:47] three out, how much do you have left?

[2:37:50] >> Oh, okay.

[2:37:51] >> That left then.

[2:37:54] >> Really? It's

[2:37:56] the homecoming parade LHS $750. That's

[2:37:59] the B the baseline. Then if we have to

[2:38:02] shut down the loop for a 5K, that's

[2:38:05] about 2,000. So the range is anywhere

[2:38:07] from 750 to couple thousand for

[2:38:11] individual events. The big ones, like I

[2:38:13] said, we just talked about.

[2:38:18] » So why don't Well, I got two things.

[2:38:20] one, I think your idea of polling and

[2:38:24] talking to each one is a good idea to

[2:38:26] see what what would drive people away if

[2:38:30] it was too much. But the other thing is

[2:38:33] um and I I think Mary could answer it is there a lot of benefit to the town

[2:38:38] with these events and what the benefits

[2:38:40] are or do you know could you quantify

[2:38:42] that at this point

[2:38:43] >> without polling businesses to see if

[2:38:45] their sales go up on any given event day

[2:38:48] go up or if they go down that's for the

[2:38:50] doesn't help the street as close

[2:38:54] traffic. So we can pull them and find

[2:38:56] out what effect is. Well, I know with us

[2:39:00] on Centerfest and Christmas parade,

[2:39:04] we do triple like our normal sales cuz I

[2:39:09] ordered like double

[2:39:11] the food and stuff and everything and

[2:39:13] there's been that some of the times

[2:39:14] we've had to close at 1, didn't even

[2:39:16] stay up past 1 or two because we ran

[2:39:19] out.

[2:39:21] So I mean it does restaurant

[2:39:24] >> because like Heather leaves the front of

[2:39:26] our store. She doesn't put anybody at

[2:39:28] centerfest. Our storefront stays

[2:39:31] >> and we do do really well for

[2:39:35] >> That's because our prices, you know, cuz

[2:39:37] food truck prices are more expensive

[2:39:39] than regular food. So it does help for

[2:39:41] that. The Christmas parade

[2:39:45] um in the before it starts. Yes.

[2:39:50] Once the Christmas parade is over, it's

[2:39:52] a regular day, but then if you stay open

[2:39:55] for the tree lighting and all of that,

[2:39:57] then you got your people coming back in.

[2:39:59] So, it does give you better sales, but

[2:40:02] you have to stay open for.

[2:40:06] » So, that I would think that would be

[2:40:08] some of the stuff we would want to hear

[2:40:09] from all business.

[2:40:11] >> Sounds like it's beneficial to you to

[2:40:12] have the events.

[2:40:13] >> Yeah.

[2:40:14] >> But I mean, you know, I'm like right

[2:40:16] there in the middle of it.

[2:40:17] >> Yeah.

[2:40:18] It could be different when you're off to

[2:40:20] the

[2:40:23] >> some of these events that the town is

[2:40:26] sponsoring or co-sponsoring

[2:40:28] with other people.

[2:40:29] >> Yeah, let me speak to that.

[2:40:30] >> Could we

[2:40:31] >> actually we don't really sponsor

[2:40:34] anything because we don't have a staff

[2:40:35] to do it anything. This kind of goes

[2:40:38] back to the argument too that and maybe

[2:40:41] we saying there are organiza other

[2:40:43] organizations that have events and our

[2:40:45] only involvement is we allow them to use

[2:40:48] the streets. Now that said we do pay

[2:40:52] sponsorships to organizations currently

[2:40:54] the central Virginia Business Coalition

[2:40:56] and the D-Day Memorial Foundation. So I just want to make that clear that

[2:41:01] >> right

[2:41:01] >> we we don't sponsor them because we

[2:41:03] don't really have anybody who can

[2:41:04] >> understood but the the point of the

[2:41:06] question was as opposed to paying a fee

[2:41:10] to be listed as a sponsor those inind

[2:41:13] services that we pay

[2:41:15] could that be used to offset whatever

[2:41:17] that sponsorship level may be

[2:41:20] >> we can ask

[2:41:23] >> I think that's a great idea I will

[2:41:24] follow

[2:41:25] >> and of course the other option is okay

[2:41:27] if if that's not good, then you're going

[2:41:29] to pay a third or half of the cost of

[2:41:33] our services.

[2:41:35] >> Our costs are mainly in in barricading

[2:41:39] the roads and streets and all that.

[2:41:41] >> Yeah. Law enforcement,

[2:41:43] public works, and actually anything.

[2:41:46] >> The cost that's not counted is the cost

[2:41:48] of the firefighters that are volunteers

[2:41:50] that are out there. Correct.

[2:41:52] >> Spending their time out there because

[2:41:53] they don't get compensated for their

[2:41:55] time.

[2:41:55] >> They're just volunteering to be there.

[2:41:57] >> Right. and it's taken away from them

[2:41:59] from being able to respond to other

[2:42:01] calls and again wearing them out and

[2:42:03] having them

[2:42:04] >> Yeah. So, so yeah, that's a good point

[2:42:06] in that okay, if we can calculate the

[2:42:09] cost or we the poll probably is the

[2:42:12] right way to go first, but I dare say

[2:42:15] some may say absolutely not, but you

[2:42:18] don't know. You need to get the poll,

[2:42:20] get need to get the numbers,

[2:42:21] >> but for the sponsors, that's a great

[2:42:23] idea. Yeah, we'll follow up on that as

[2:42:24] well.

[2:42:24] >> Go ahead.

[2:42:25] >> That is a great idea there.

[2:42:26] >> Yeah. And Chief Wills, it'd be

[2:42:28] interesting for you if you could

[2:42:29] calculate when we have special events

[2:42:32] what the act what the cost would be and

[2:42:34] for the manpower that you have out

[2:42:36] there.

[2:42:39] >> Yeah, because that would be a good

[2:42:40] number to have. Even though it's it's

[2:42:42] not a cost of us financially, but it's a

[2:42:46] cost on the manpower that you have and

[2:42:48] the and their ability to respond to the

[2:42:50] call.

[2:42:50] >> Theoretically for something like that, would be an overtime

[2:42:54] >> kind of thing because you don't want to

[2:42:57] We can't take services away from

[2:42:59] services.

[2:43:02] >> And I'm sorry, let me just explain the

[2:43:04] process for any special kind of comes

[2:43:07] through me first. The application forms

[2:43:09] in my office, anybody that wants to do

[2:43:11] it fills it out. I then send that out to

[2:43:14] each department and ask them to evaluate

[2:43:16] that and calculate the costs. And I

[2:43:19] haven't been including the fire

[2:43:19] department, but you will be added to the

[2:43:21] distribution list. I I compiled that.

[2:43:24] Well, I'm sorry. Let me go back. There's

[2:43:25] a $50 application fee upfront

[2:43:28] to cover our costs of just evaluating

[2:43:31] that because everybody has to stop what

[2:43:32] they're doing and figure out schedules.

[2:43:35] Then we go back and calculate the total

[2:43:37] cost. I figure out 20% send and send

[2:43:39] them a quote saying this is what the

[2:43:42] event fee is. Once they pay that, we put

[2:43:45] it on the agenda. You approve it.

[2:43:48] If they don't pay the fee, then

[2:43:52] I'd tell them no, but then they could

[2:43:53] still come and ask it.

[2:43:58] » And we got to say no.

[2:44:00] >> Yeah.

[2:44:01] >> Well,

[2:44:02] >> we got to stick with what the policy

[2:44:04] >> correct. That's what I'm saying.

[2:44:05] >> We got to let Mr. Warner do his job.

[2:44:08] >> We got to support him.

[2:44:10] >> Yes.

[2:44:11] >> Or should Yes.

[2:44:13] >> Yeah. So, so what's the flavor? I mean

[2:44:17] going the polling or what what direction

[2:44:19] do we want to go here?

[2:44:21] >> Well, I think gathering information is

[2:44:23] always

[2:44:25] >> okay. Is that okay?

[2:44:27] >> Yep. We can do that this week.

[2:44:29] >> All right.

[2:44:31] Carry on.

[2:44:34] >> What's next?

[2:44:36] >> I didn't know Dave has

[2:44:40] you got

[2:44:40] >> it's human. I think I Poland's fine.

[2:44:44] Human nature. If I'm a business and you

[2:44:46] say, "Hey, would you pay 100% or would

[2:44:49] you leave?" I'll leave. And

[2:44:52] >> that's what I was getting.

[2:44:53] >> Yeah. And so it's like I don't So the

[2:44:54] polling to me is going to be not even

[2:44:56] beneficial.

[2:44:57] >> Well, well, I think I think it's the

[2:45:00] other side of the polling too that we

[2:45:01] have that Mary could do to find out what

[2:45:04] benefits there are to the businesses in

[2:45:06] the community.

[2:45:07] >> My part's easy. I'll know what Mary

[2:45:09] >> Yeah. And her part's going to be more

[2:45:10] difficult. See, see they they're going

[2:45:13] to say to Mary, are you serious?

[2:45:16] >> Well, some of them may say there's no

[2:45:18] benefit. I would think they're going to

[2:45:20] be say some would say there's none. And

[2:45:22] then others like Jay are going to say

[2:45:23] there's some. And that's where you we

[2:45:25] got to find the balance of where where

[2:45:27] it is in there.

[2:45:29] >> It's that's a gun to play with any poll.

[2:45:32] >> Yeah.

[2:45:32] >> The accuracy of it.

[2:45:33] >> Yeah, I know. I know.

[2:45:35] >> But it's a good start. I mean, and then

[2:45:37] you're you're you're exactly right

[2:45:38] though. Then you have to analyze it and

[2:45:40] see

[2:45:42] the the the accuracy of it.

[2:45:44] >> Yeah,

[2:45:48] » I guess.

[2:45:50] >> Yeah. I mean, because we got to start

[2:45:52] somewhere and figure out where we're

[2:45:53] going to go from there. I mean, if you

[2:45:54] know, we could always say we're going to

[2:45:56] charge 100% for what every event, but

[2:45:58] then we might not have any events in

[2:46:01] town after that.

[2:46:02] >> I do agree that and I think we're on the

[2:46:05] right track. Bart's on the right track

[2:46:06] in that we've got to figure out, okay,

[2:46:09] where are we losing money and how much

[2:46:11] is too much and then tighten the budget

[2:46:15] or tighten the belt a little bit to

[2:46:16] where stop the bleeding

[2:46:18] >> as much as we can. Yeah.

[2:46:19] >> Without stopping events.

[2:46:20] >> Well, exactly. That's where I was

[2:46:22] thinking.

[2:46:22] >> Yeah.

[2:46:25] >> Because I think and because I do think

[2:46:27] there are benefits to events even though

[2:46:29] I may not sound like it when I'm saying

[2:46:30] the things I'm saying. I think the

[2:46:32] community benefits and the and the town

[2:46:35] benefits from the marketing of the

[2:46:37] events and people seeing the town

[2:46:39] >> while they're here. I think there's a

[2:46:41] benefit to that.

[2:46:42] >> Yeah. No, I totally agree. We don't want

[2:46:44] to seem like a Grinch and nobody wants

[2:46:46] to come.

[2:46:46] >> Exactly. So, I'm asking these questions

[2:46:49] not as a person to say there are

[2:46:50] benefits, but what how much so we can

[2:46:53] try to quantify some of it is what I was

[2:46:55] trying to think of.

[2:46:56] >> One thing I'm going to say about the

[2:46:57] Dane, we do talk about this. You know,

[2:47:00] there was one person said they're not

[2:47:02] going to charge any fees this year on

[2:47:03] one event, but all the other events.

[2:47:06] There's fees, entry fees,

[2:47:09] registration fees.

[2:47:11] >> Yeah.

[2:47:11] >> And then that group makes up money from

[2:47:13] that.

[2:47:14] >> Yeah. Do we Yeah. Do we gain any tax? Do

[2:47:16] we gain any tax advantage from that when

[2:47:18] there's people charging to enter the

[2:47:20] events and we don't have

[2:47:22] >> I'm just curious.

[2:47:24] >> I have to look at our code. We haven't

[2:47:25] been charging an admissions tax now. But

[2:47:28] we don't have do we have one in the

[2:47:30] books for or is there one do we have an

[2:47:32] ordinance for

[2:47:32] >> admission is there tax go

[2:47:36] >> or do we need to create one

[2:47:38] >> so certain events charge an admission

[2:47:40] fee

[2:47:41] >> can we get some of that benefit

[2:47:45] >> I'm paraphrasing but that's

[2:47:46] >> admissions tax in the books and I'm

[2:47:47] aware

[2:47:48] >> I mean we could have an admissions tax

[2:47:52] >> but then it's also tricky because if

[2:47:54] they're a nonprofit

[2:47:57] >> a lot of times are exempt from the

[2:47:58] missions tax that the nonprofit agency

[2:48:00] is putting on the event

[2:48:03] >> or school. You get into the school

[2:48:05] situation.

[2:48:07] >> That's a good proportion.

[2:48:10] >> Yeah. I will tell you Liberty High

[2:48:11] School wasn't happy about paying $50.

[2:48:13] You

[2:48:15] thought I'd bankrupted some.

[2:48:19] Well, and we wouldn't charge the

[2:48:20] nonprofits then, but then that would at

[2:48:22] least if honestly it might drive more

[2:48:26] nonprofits to doing the events, but then

[2:48:29] it would benefit the nonprofits and may

[2:48:31] not need some of it may help them.

[2:48:34] So, I mean, because there because I know

[2:48:36] there are some events that are privately

[2:48:37] funded that are still act out or out

[2:48:40] there that are still charging for

[2:48:42] admissions. The the carnival could be

[2:48:44] one of them if they charge for

[2:48:46] admissions of the carnival.

[2:48:49] I think they used to years back when it

[2:48:51] was at the JC field. They throw it to

[2:48:52] admission, but that's long ago.

[2:48:55] >> Yeah.

[2:48:56] >> Uh is appropriate to mention that we're

[2:48:59] in our engagement with the carnival.

[2:49:02] We're talking about them providing some

[2:49:05] benefits to the facility.

[2:49:08] >> Yeah. Yeah. Please do. Yeah.

[2:49:09] >> Because in in that car, so the Bedford

[2:49:11] carnival first instance was last year at

[2:49:13] Liberty League Park. They're coming

[2:49:15] again. They've talked to us about a

[2:49:16] long-term arrangement at Liberty Lake

[2:49:19] Park and making some improvements to the

[2:49:22] facilities they use that would exist

[2:49:24] permanently and benefit us and benefit

[2:49:27] our maintenance efforts. So, just want

[2:49:29] to make you aware that there's another

[2:49:31] >> we have repeat customers. We've also

[2:49:34] execute I'm I'm going off topic a little

[2:49:36] bit. Also executed anou with county win

[2:49:39] they're the most consistent user of the

[2:49:41] fields. They're going to step up more

[2:49:42] with maintenance to offset our costs.

[2:49:46] there's an idea that somebody has about

[2:49:48] duplicating something like illuminites

[2:49:50] on our trail, we can engage them to fix

[2:49:52] the trail and maintain it. That's that's

[2:49:55] different than the fee discussion, but I

[2:49:56] just want you to be aware that part of

[2:49:58] our attempt to reduce our maintenance

[2:50:00] and capital cost

[2:50:01] >> relates to following up on these

[2:50:03] relationships where we can.

[2:50:04] >> And I will follow up on that in that Tom

[2:50:06] and I met with uh Joy Powers and what

[2:50:09] was the other ladies?

[2:50:10] >> Carolyn Fellers. Kellen Fel Fellers's uh

[2:50:13] several months back about the county

[2:50:14] fair. Very good meeting and and they

[2:50:18] went off on these ideas. They would like

[2:50:21] some kind of building in the future. Uh

[2:50:24] and not just a meet uh building where

[2:50:27] you put up and take down a metal

[2:50:29] building to put all their things in

[2:50:31] their their arts, their crafts,

[2:50:33] different things to expand the county

[2:50:36] fair. And so they talked about

[2:50:39] partnering with the town on these things

[2:50:42] which Jonathan Hayden also said that

[2:50:44] about the land that we currently own and

[2:50:47] are not doing anything with talked about

[2:50:49] additional parking additional ideas on

[2:50:52] that. So there are ideas out there that

[2:50:55] they are serious about

[2:50:57] >> and we could capture that as an inind

[2:50:59] cost on their part. Follow up on D.

[2:51:01] That's why I brought it.

[2:51:02] >> Yeah. So yeah, I appreciate that.

[2:51:04] >> And that's what I would say it was an

[2:51:05] inind cost. I think that would cover.

[2:51:08] >> Yeah, but that's what I've been saying a

[2:51:09] lot about a lot of these things. If we

[2:51:11] can get partners to go in with us and

[2:51:14] help out, not the town go it alone, and

[2:51:17] that's kind of what we're looking for.

[2:51:19] And and with Jonathan and his group

[2:51:21] there, they are more than willing to

[2:51:23] help out or do what they can. We we just

[2:51:26] need to get someone, as I said earlier,

[2:51:29] to start driving that and moving forward

[2:51:31] and seeing what we can or cannot do. And I think I think all these partners

[2:51:36] we're talking about really do benefit

[2:51:38] the town.

[2:51:39] >> Absolutely.

[2:51:39] >> The events that some

[2:51:40] >> No doubt they right.

[2:51:43] >> Yeah.

[2:51:44] >> So I'm glad you mentioned that.

[2:51:47] >> What else?

[2:51:52] Deborah's back there pointing to the

[2:51:54] hall. Do you all want to finish this one and then go eat or what? What

[2:52:00] else on the financials or do you want to

[2:52:03] ask or what's on your mind?

[2:52:05] >> Finish this section.

[2:52:06] >> Yeah, finish it up.

[2:52:07] >> Yeah, let's finish it before.

[2:52:10] >> Your sto must be ground.

[2:52:11] >> No, no, that might actually

[2:52:15] covered everything that I had my notes

[2:52:17] on. I have so

[2:52:24] I guess

[2:52:25] >> I mean anything that you y you all think

[2:52:27] about later we can come back to

[2:52:29] >> I guess the only question I'd have and

[2:52:31] just as a point of clarification was on

[2:52:34] page 71 the refuge collection fees the

[2:52:36] building I know the tren shows it down

[2:52:38] in 26 but I'm guess that's due to

[2:52:41] commercial exactly

[2:52:44] >> and I'll say the decrease in the fee is

[2:52:47] a lot less than the decrease in the

[2:52:48] cost.

[2:52:55] » All right, page 72

[2:53:05] 73

[2:53:10] 74 75

[2:53:18] As I said, anything we can come back to

[2:53:20] if y'all want to, but uh

[2:53:24] you got anything?

[2:53:26] You okay?

[2:53:26] >> I'm good. You good?

[2:53:28] >> I can ask one question.

[2:53:30] >> Please do.

[2:53:32] >> We got till 12.

[2:53:34] >> And they won't take that. is uh on on 74

[2:53:37] and the proposed 27 I the contingency

[2:53:42] will that I mean if are in a perfect

[2:53:45] world this year nothing goes wrong we

[2:53:48] will we just roll that over as a general

[2:53:50] fund thing

[2:53:51] >> that's the hope and almost all of that

[2:53:54] is either debt funding that's planned in

[2:53:56] the general fund solid based fund and

[2:53:58] then the electric fund has a healthy

[2:54:00] contingency this year

[2:54:05] And that's all I have

[2:54:08] >> for now.

[2:54:12] » All right. Anything on 75? P 875.

[2:54:18] All right. Then the next one when we

[2:54:19] come back will be the CIP

[2:54:22] capital improvement program. Everybody

[2:54:24] good? Yep. Then let's break for lunch.

[2:54:29] Welcome to Yeah.

[3:30:13] too, right?

[3:30:14] >> Yes.

[3:30:22] » We were fast tracking.

[3:30:24] >> Daryl and I discussed everything else in

[3:30:26] between.

[3:30:27] >> Yeah. I think we left off page 170. Oh,

[3:30:31] excuse me. 176. 76. Um, real quick, Mary

[3:30:36] is back. If you all had any questions

[3:30:39] ABOUT

[3:30:44] » Are you enjoying your meal, ma'am?

[3:30:47] >> If you have any questions about

[3:30:48] community development, we'll wait till

[3:30:50] she's finished and then ask her any

[3:30:53] questions.

[3:30:54] >> I think Barb pretty much answered.

[3:30:56] >> Yeah.

[3:30:56] Oh, I don't know.

[3:30:59] >> Yeah,

[3:31:00] >> did a great job.

[3:31:00] >> He He did a great job for you, Mayor.

[3:31:04] >> All right. I think we left off on page

[3:31:06] 76. Uh, moving forward, the government's

[3:31:10] movement programs.

[3:31:13] Let's go.

[3:31:14] >> Yeah, there's not a lot,

[3:31:16] but there's a lot to talk about in the

[3:31:18] future.

[3:31:22] Um,

[3:31:24] one thing I just want to mention

[3:31:26] strategically, uh, you know, just going

[3:31:29] that list in public works, we're looking

[3:31:32] at doing some work in the parks in two

[3:31:34] places. One is Bulipane Park. We have to

[3:31:37] do that. There's some legal obligations

[3:31:40] >> related to when we took over ownership

[3:31:41] of that that we're wrapping up. Um,

[3:31:45] talking about the literally park

[3:31:46] restrooms, Tom and I have talked about

[3:31:48] this and here want to share our approach

[3:31:51] to that, you know, the idea of Portage

[3:31:53] John's nobody really likes, including

[3:31:54] us. So, we're talking about the idea of

[3:31:57] maybe constructing permanent facilities

[3:31:59] that, okay, they're restrooms with water

[3:32:01] fountain facilities

[3:32:04] at each kind of pod or sector of the

[3:32:07] park. And the first one we've talked

[3:32:08] about is, you know, up by the tennis

[3:32:10] courts and the playground up up top

[3:32:13] doing that figuring out how this works.

[3:32:15] Doing it one year,

[3:32:17] not to be improper, you know, one seater

[3:32:20] each side, that kind of thing. Then

[3:32:22] maybe the next year doing it at field

[3:32:24] one and the next year at field two and

[3:32:26] next year down at the pavilion by the

[3:32:28] lake. Kind of incrementally as we can

[3:32:31] afford it,

[3:32:33] respond to some of the concerns of the

[3:32:35] public that frankly we have too.

[3:32:37] and and restrooms were things we heard

[3:32:39] about.

[3:32:40] >> So that that's our approach to it. And

[3:32:42] Tom, you jump up and smack me if I said

[3:32:44] something wrong.

[3:32:47] >> I don't I'm not sure I missed Oh, I

[3:32:48] missed the first part of that. You

[3:32:50] talking about permanent

[3:32:52] >> permanent? Yeah. Something. Yeah. With

[3:32:54] running water and

[3:32:55] >> Yeah. Right. Okay.

[3:32:56] >> Probably electricity.

[3:32:57] >> I think that's a great idea. Great. And

[3:33:00] we need to

[3:33:01] >> now we don't know what that looks like

[3:33:02] yet. We're we're looking at modular

[3:33:04] options obviously.

[3:33:07] Yeah, I I'll just jump. Uh there are

[3:33:10] some modulars that that operate like a

[3:33:13] porta john they that they and I had

[3:33:17] already talked to uh Brad Bay who you

[3:33:19] who utilizes uh maintains the port John

[3:33:22] we had where the truck comes in cleans

[3:33:24] it out that kind of thing. But they are a building though. They just

[3:33:29] don't have water and and the sewer lines

[3:33:32] that have to be run to them. They're

[3:33:35] self-contained, but it's a building.

[3:33:37] It's not a portage, not like a plastic

[3:33:39] thing.

[3:33:40] >> So, it's, you know, it's upscale, but no

[3:33:44] water needs to be run to it because

[3:33:46] frankly, we were talking about, I mean,

[3:33:47] that'd be the preference, but that's

[3:33:49] going to cost quite a bit,

[3:33:51] >> especially per unit.

[3:33:54] >> I'll give you another example. We were

[3:33:56] um there was a u

[3:33:59] standalone water fountain by the uh

[3:34:01] tennis courts and that was there. had

[3:34:04] been existing for years but wasn't

[3:34:06] working. But we started researching and

[3:34:09] getting into it. We found where the the

[3:34:11] valve was. The valve was shut off. So we

[3:34:14] turned it on and the thing start

[3:34:15] spraying out. So, you know, we get

[3:34:18] farther into it. You know, long story

[3:34:21] short, it needs to be replaced. The the

[3:34:23] components that are underground are

[3:34:25] either worn out or rusted out or

[3:34:27] whatever. A standalone the cheapest

[3:34:30] standalone water fountain that I can

[3:34:33] find. And I've had uh

[3:34:37] Whit look into it. I've had Select Air

[3:34:40] look into it. And I looked into myself.

[3:34:42] The cheapest one I can find is $9,000

[3:34:46] just for a standalone water fountain.

[3:34:50] And from the two contractors, it was

[3:34:53] much more than that. It's closer to

[3:34:54] 15,000.

[3:34:56] So that's why that's going undone right

[3:34:59] now because 10 grand for a water pound

[3:35:01] is hard to justify. But uh but yeah,

[3:35:04] we're going to do something. But like I

[3:35:06] said, it's the cost. It's a little cost

[3:35:08] prohibitive. Run the water and sewer

[3:35:10] lines and all that. So we were looking

[3:35:12] at other options. So

[3:35:14] the cost of our standalone

[3:35:16] self-contained unit is much less still a

[3:35:19] little bit.

[3:35:20] >> I got to speak of it. Did we do we have

[3:35:23] defibrillators at our parks?

[3:35:26] >> No sir.

[3:35:27] >> Though it's going to be required. Yeah,

[3:35:30] we that that was a discussion that came

[3:35:32] up uh not long ago about our lack of

[3:35:36] throughout the whole city, you know, or

[3:35:39] town.

[3:35:42] So, yes, sir.

[3:35:43] >> That's something else.

[3:35:46] >> So, on these modules, are they do you

[3:35:48] have to run power to them, have lights

[3:35:50] in them? you uh you can a couple of them

[3:35:53] were solar powered but uh power would I

[3:35:57] believe I in my opinion my humble

[3:35:59] opinion I think p getting power to it

[3:36:01] would be much easier

[3:36:04] wouldn't be much much of an issue

[3:36:06] because we do have power up there with

[3:36:08] some street lights and some other things

[3:36:10] and at the pavilions so running power to

[3:36:13] it I don't think would be a big deal but

[3:36:15] yes sir that would it would be able to

[3:36:17] be excuse me utilized at night

[3:36:24] Sounds good. I know I know we get

[3:36:27] criticized at times for what's down

[3:36:29] there, but I know our our granddaughter

[3:36:31] is playing lacrosse and we go to big

[3:36:34] parks in Lynchburg and Ron Oak and they

[3:36:36] have the Porter John's there. So,

[3:36:37] they're everywhere.

[3:36:39] >> Yeah. Yeah. Porter John's, you know,

[3:36:41] when you really need it, they're they're

[3:36:43] handy. But,

[3:36:44] >> and that's what you like. Like I said

[3:36:46] with the standalone unit, I had talked

[3:36:47] to Brad Baines because they they utilize

[3:36:50] those, but he said he'd never heard of

[3:36:52] such a thing and it was something I

[3:36:54] found online. Um, but he goes, "Sure."

[3:36:56] He goes, "If it's got a holding tank and

[3:36:59] that kind of he goes, why not?" He goes,

[3:37:02] "It's no different than what we do now

[3:37:03] with the with the small unit." So,

[3:37:06] >> yeah. And I've never seen this, but I

[3:37:08] know some of the guys that did storm

[3:37:10] restoration out of state talked about

[3:37:12] it. There were some that had full

[3:37:15] running water, electricity, everything

[3:37:17] in there just like a normal toilet and

[3:37:19] uh it's very a lot of different things

[3:37:23] out there depending on what you want to

[3:37:25] spend.

[3:37:25] >> Yes, sir. That's correct.

[3:37:26] >> So, I jumped ahead a little bit with the

[3:37:28] parks. That was the one thing that we

[3:37:29] heard consistently and yes,

[3:37:31] >> we are working to address. Now, there

[3:37:33] are several things in the CIP that we're

[3:37:35] looking to fund through short-term

[3:37:36] financing.

[3:37:38] And let me I'm going to speak to this

[3:37:39] Tuesday at council meeting for the

[3:37:41] benefit of the public. But to let you

[3:37:42] know where we are on this building,

[3:37:46] Thompson Len is coming up with two

[3:37:47] potential options for air conditioning.

[3:37:49] One is replacing a water chiller system

[3:37:53] like the one we have. The other is use

[3:37:55] of mini splits, multiple minplit units.

[3:37:59] They recommend the mini splits. Tom and

[3:38:02] I like the mini splits. The issue with

[3:38:04] the mini splits is trying to get an

[3:38:06] answer on this, but I think we already

[3:38:07] know it. They're going to go on the

[3:38:09] roof.

[3:38:10] >> He did send us an email last night.

[3:38:12] >> Okay.

[3:38:13] >> I meant to respond. Uh in short, he said

[3:38:16] that they are doing everything they can

[3:38:18] do to to avoid the roof.

[3:38:20] >> Okay.

[3:38:21] >> But if but if they had but if it was a

[3:38:23] necessity that they would uh go to

[3:38:27] Senbar who did the roof and has the

[3:38:29] warranty on it. Thank you. can explain

[3:38:31] and work with them. So if they did go on

[3:38:34] the roof, Senmar could have a rep or

[3:38:37] they could have an agreement as to what

[3:38:39] work could be done without negating the warrant.

[3:38:42] >> So they're willing to work with it.

[3:38:44] Okay.

[3:38:44] >> Yes, we just got that from Barry last

[3:38:46] night.

[3:38:47] >> So

[3:38:49] ready to present that to you all for

[3:38:51] action. But before we we want to make

[3:38:52] sure we had all the detail. Obviously,

[3:38:54] in solving one problem with the HVAC, we

[3:38:57] don't want to create another one with

[3:38:57] the roof that we just

[3:38:59] >> paid $30,000.

[3:39:04] » Also

[3:39:06] want to make sure we get a full view of

[3:39:08] how things are working. You gave us

[3:39:10] 30,000 to implement a temporary solution

[3:39:13] which has not been installed yet, but I

[3:39:15] will tell you from my perspective, if

[3:39:18] that works and carries us through the

[3:39:20] summer,

[3:39:22] that stretches out our time on moving

[3:39:24] forward on all the replacement and also

[3:39:29] defers the payments a little bit, too.

[3:39:31] So, I'm not dragging my feet, but I'm

[3:39:33] trying to be responsible with the

[3:39:35] temporary solution as well as the

[3:39:36] long-term solution. And I'll explain all

[3:39:39] this Tuesday as well, but since that's

[3:39:42] we still estimate 2.5 million for all

[3:39:44] the HVAC, all the electrical work and

[3:39:46] what we might be borrowing. So, okay.

[3:39:51] And then there are several other things

[3:39:53] including a couple of u capital items

[3:39:55] related to solid waste.

[3:39:59] So

[3:40:00] we I think it might be appropriate I

[3:40:02] know it's a solid waste fund discussion

[3:40:04] but to talk about the transfer station

[3:40:06] and then also to talk about these other

[3:40:08] things in light of our residential

[3:40:09] service

[3:40:11] because in our conversations with the

[3:40:13] one respondent for the franchise they've

[3:40:16] asked if we would be if we would

[3:40:18] consider contracting out at least a

[3:40:20] portion of our residential trash pickup

[3:40:23] service.

[3:40:25] And I'm sorry this is a lot to throw at

[3:40:27] you this morning based on that but it

[3:40:30] could inform some other things.

[3:40:33] And I guess the first thing was first

[3:40:35] thing is

[3:40:36] can we talk about closing the transfer

[3:40:40] station as soon as possible.

[3:40:45] You will get yelled at for that by

[3:40:47] people who use it. But as I said at the

[3:40:49] beginning of the meeting, that's a

[3:40:50] straight up duplication of services. We

[3:40:52] are spending at least $100,000 in

[3:40:55] expenditures related to probably more

[3:40:57] like 150

[3:40:59] >> and we have huge capital items lingering

[3:41:01] if we want to continue to use it

[3:41:02] >> and we don't need it.

[3:41:05] >> So we'd close the station then in the

[3:41:07] interim before possibly the franchisee

[3:41:10] would come in. Is that what you're

[3:41:11] saying? Well,

[3:41:13] what we're hearing from the franchisee

[3:41:14] is they don't really think they the only

[3:41:17] way they have a use for it is if they

[3:41:18] can use it in conjunction with another

[3:41:20] service that they're not currently

[3:41:22] providing.

[3:41:27] » Doesn't make money.

[3:41:29] >> Well, I mean, it doesn't make sense.

[3:41:30] >> It doesn't make money any more money for

[3:41:31] them than it would for us. That's kind

[3:41:33] of where we I mean, I I like taking

[3:41:34] stuff over there, but it doesn't make

[3:41:36] sense for to me to the for the town in

[3:41:38] general to keep it open and then start

[3:41:41] incurring the cost for the roll on

[3:41:43] rolloffs you need and the those other

[3:41:45] things that we're have to buy to keep it

[3:41:46] going. So,

[3:41:47] >> and if you go just a couple more miles,

[3:41:49] you're paying taxes to use a pretty nice

[3:41:51] facility in

[3:41:52] >> Sure. Yeah.

[3:41:56] » So, are you wanting us to make a

[3:41:58] decision? I offer some guidance because

[3:42:00] well

[3:42:02] this helps in our negotiation with with

[3:42:04] the person interested in the franchise

[3:42:05] too because part of our leverage is we

[3:42:08] don't need it and but if they need it in

[3:42:11] conjunction with something else that's

[3:42:12] the guidance we so it's kind of like

[3:42:14] when we negotiate some things with

[3:42:16] reversion we have to establish a

[3:42:17] position first off that we know we can

[3:42:20] defend

[3:42:21] >> the next question is do we want to talk

[3:42:22] about residential zones

[3:42:24] >> well first I would I would be with Dave

[3:42:26] if it's costing us money that's that's

[3:42:29] just closed it because I go out to the

[3:42:31] county. I don't I don't come to the town

[3:42:33] to drop my trash off. I go out to the

[3:42:35] county landfill and drop all mine off

[3:42:37] because it's a service the county

[3:42:39] provides to me for my taxes.

[3:42:42] >> Can I ask can I ask a question? Right

[3:42:44] now the poles that we remove from

[3:42:46] service we take to the transfer station

[3:42:50] >> and theoretically they were ground up or

[3:42:52] what whatever we we didn't want to have

[3:42:55] the liability of giving them to out to

[3:42:57] the public. So if you close it that

[3:43:00] means we have to go to the county

[3:43:02] landfill. Is that are they going to you

[3:43:05] remember they're barking about oh you're

[3:43:07] using commercial out here. Yes.

[3:43:10] >> Is that going to jeopardize our

[3:43:13] situation with that? Well, that's what

[3:43:14] you're talking about though is

[3:43:15] commercial waste.

[3:43:16] >> Yeah.

[3:43:17] >> By any definition, we we resolved that

[3:43:19] by getting out of the commercial

[3:43:21] business.

[3:43:21] >> Yeah.

[3:43:22] >> You would have to pay for what you

[3:43:23] dropped.

[3:43:24] >> But what you took? Yes.

[3:43:26] >> Now, does that cost outweigh the savings

[3:43:29] is the question.

[3:43:30] >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We don't think so.

[3:43:32] >> There's other material that we do that

[3:43:35] with as well. So, um I guess we just

[3:43:39] reroute to the county

[3:43:41] >> or somewhere else if it's more

[3:43:42] efficient.

[3:43:43] probably the calendar.

[3:43:44] >> And then also like if we're cutting a

[3:43:46] tree, we take the logs from the tree

[3:43:49] over there most of the time. We used to

[3:43:52] try and work with a property owner if he

[3:43:54] says, "Oh yeah, I want the logs." But

[3:43:56] then they sit there for 6 months and the

[3:43:58] neighbors start complaining and so we

[3:44:00] stop doing that.

[3:44:02] So we're kind of in a situation where we

[3:44:05] do cut quite a few trees. We end up

[3:44:08] taking landfill. And brush grinding is a

[3:44:12] separate conversation.

[3:44:14] >> That would be a I'm sorry to interrupt,

[3:44:16] but I wanted to when currently we

[3:44:19] contract out uh brush brush grinding

[3:44:22] services to Bedford movement. So we have

[3:44:24] a contract with them. It could be

[3:44:27] possibility that either we allow them to

[3:44:30] still continue to grind on that that

[3:44:32] site even though it's closed. Uh the

[3:44:35] owner of Bedford, Jimmy Andrews, has

[3:44:38] property throughout. Maybe he would do

[3:44:40] something else where we could deliver

[3:44:42] brush. I mean, it still would be become

[3:44:44] an issue uh for my department as well

[3:44:47] because we unless you deem it otherwise.

[3:44:51] We we'd still have to pick up brush and have to deliver either to the county

[3:44:55] or wherever because um the uh gentleman

[3:44:59] who's who's off who put in the RFD uh

[3:45:02] doesn't do.

[3:45:04] >> Yeah. So that would be a factor and as

[3:45:06] well as leaves leave pickup. So that'd

[3:45:09] be another consideration. But I just

[3:45:11] wanted to throw that out there that we

[3:45:13] do contract out that grinding service.

[3:45:15] So I think there is something that could

[3:45:18] be worked out.

[3:45:22] » If I was to close it because it's you're

[3:45:24] taking money and put it to something

[3:45:26] else that we need to focus on.

[3:45:29] >> 750,000.

[3:45:30] >> Yeah, I was going to point that out.

[3:45:32] I mean that is included in the budget at

[3:45:35] this point is disposal being zeroed out.

[3:45:38] >> Yeah, I'm I'm thinking the same line

[3:45:40] duplication of services. But back to the

[3:45:43] brush. Okay. Would we

[3:45:46] if we continue doing that with Jimmy

[3:45:49] Andrews? Then would there how would that

[3:45:51] work? Would

[3:45:52] >> we don't need the transfer station to

[3:45:53] continue brush around?

[3:45:54] >> Okay.

[3:45:56] So we could still take loads of brush

[3:46:00] through the gate there and no not weigh

[3:46:03] it or

[3:46:05] >> Well, I mean,

[3:46:05] >> but that's those are the

[3:46:07] >> we could work something out.

[3:46:08] >> We we haven't we haven't gotten that.

[3:46:10] >> Yeah. Okay.

[3:46:12] >> We have to

[3:46:13] >> Yeah, that's where I'm going. We

[3:46:14] >> those are the little pieces of the

[3:46:16] puzzle to be

[3:46:17] >> still take brush out to the county too.

[3:46:19] >> Yeah.

[3:46:21] >> And if it's residential for sure, right?

[3:46:23] >> But I'm talking

[3:46:23] >> it's residential for sure.

[3:46:25] >> Yes. Some of these larger landscaping

[3:46:27] companies take it out there and go to

[3:46:29] our landfill and dump it, but they're

[3:46:30] wave.

[3:46:32] >> Well, that but if it's a landscaping

[3:46:34] company, then that's going back to it's

[3:46:36] not residential trash. It's

[3:46:39] >> commercial.

[3:46:42] >> Also, I'm just saying this even though

[3:46:44] they're doing it on for residential,

[3:46:46] >> they're getting paid to do it.

[3:46:48] >> Yeah. Okay. According to our ordinance,

[3:46:51] any work that a land that a contracted

[3:46:53] landscaper does on somebody's property,

[3:46:56] they are responsible to remove.

[3:46:58] >> Yeah. Okay.

[3:46:59] >> So,

[3:47:00] >> that's commercial.

[3:47:01] >> Okay.

[3:47:03] >> So, also you look at we got go down to

[3:47:06] solid waste. We're going to have to buy

[3:47:07] a garbage truck, too. So, that's

[3:47:09] $400,000

[3:47:11] >> minimum.

[3:47:11] >> Yeah.

[3:47:12] >> You're right. and and and I did put in

[3:47:15] this year on the CIP uh for a new garden

[3:47:18] truck. They are

[3:47:21] they it's definitely needed especially

[3:47:23] with and with 800 new homes coming in

[3:47:26] here.

[3:47:26] >> Yeah.

[3:47:27] >> So, do we need to talk have that

[3:47:28] discussion about residential trash?

[3:47:32] >> We do. I just don't know if we want to

[3:47:34] do that right now.

[3:47:35] >> Yeah.

[3:47:36] >> Well, I think that's part of what you're

[3:47:38] talking about.

[3:47:38] >> Yeah. transfer station if there's

[3:47:40] consensus on that

[3:47:42] >> and again we will take formal action in

[3:47:44] a meeting to give appropriate notice and

[3:47:47] discontin the service but

[3:47:48] >> okay we'll continue down that track and

[3:47:51] for budgeting purposes assume we're

[3:47:53] doing that now residential yeah that

[3:47:56] given the fact that the person we're

[3:47:58] negotiating with brought it up we would

[3:48:00] like to talk about that but I know

[3:48:02] you've got a lot of other things on your

[3:48:03] plate so we we're prepared to talk about

[3:48:06] that part today but it's up to

[3:48:10] Well, since we got to page 132 already,

[3:48:13] then

[3:48:16] >> Well, I mean, it's

[3:48:17] >> Hey, where do you got to go? You just

[3:48:19] got to get people here to be with

[3:48:21] >> now currently. And I'll just tell you

[3:48:24] with our the fees we're collecting and

[3:48:26] what we're charging, we're covering our

[3:48:29] costs, but we know that if we stay in

[3:48:31] that business, we got capital things

[3:48:32] coming down the pike.

[3:48:37] But isn't that a conversation that we

[3:48:40] should have after the because we if we

[3:48:44] negotiate to get rid of it now and we

[3:48:46] don't make that if we decide we get want

[3:48:48] to get rid of it and we don't build that

[3:48:51] get who you're negotiating with to do it

[3:48:53] correct

[3:48:54] >> then we're stuck.

[3:48:55] >> You're right.

[3:48:55] >> Yeah.

[3:48:56] >> So I think that's I I don't think that's

[3:48:58] >> that's why I said if you're not

[3:48:59] >> I think that's one we we work let you do

[3:49:02] your part and you bring it back to us.

[3:49:03] We have the transportation part covered

[3:49:05] and now we can

[3:49:06] >> that's my thought.

[3:49:07] >> Perfect. Just didn't know if you want to

[3:49:09] get

[3:49:10] >> ahead.

[3:49:11] >> I think I think it's something that you

[3:49:12] need to talk and then bring it back to

[3:49:14] us,

[3:49:14] >> but I don't want to make make a decision

[3:49:16] on it until

[3:49:18] >> we so we don't make a decision and we

[3:49:20] don't have

[3:49:21] >> somewhere to go

[3:49:22] >> until we we're sure all the moving parts

[3:49:24] are in place. So, the garbage truck that

[3:49:26] we have in this year's budget, shall we?

[3:49:29] Excuse me, Tom. Defer for another year

[3:49:33] >> because we're not going to We will not

[3:49:34] have that answer by July one, I'll tell

[3:49:36] you.

[3:49:36] >> Will it last? Will the current one last

[3:49:39] another year?

[3:49:40] >> Oh, I Yeah, I mean,

[3:49:43] >> okay,

[3:49:43] >> there'll be maintenance.

[3:49:44] >> Hopefully. I mean, I got some excellent

[3:49:46] mechanics. We do have three trucks. We

[3:49:49] do have backup for it. So, yeah, I don't

[3:49:51] see that as a problem.

[3:49:53] >> Okay.

[3:49:53] >> But, uh I But I do just to be upfront.

[3:49:56] I'm concerned with how fast the home the

[3:49:59] new homes are coming in and the new

[3:50:01] residents uh the first phase of of

[3:50:03] Easton Crossing almost daily almost

[3:50:07] daily. Oh yeah.

[3:50:08] >> We're getting a new customer

[3:50:10] >> and it's

[3:50:12] >> Yeah.

[3:50:13] >> And like we were talking like you all

[3:50:15] were talking earlier change and it's

[3:50:18] changing rapidly.

[3:50:19] >> Oh, it's it's here. Okay. And so when

[3:50:20] even from a year ago when I started

[3:50:22] here, it's already different. You know,

[3:50:24] we've had to we've had to add, you know,

[3:50:27] quite a bit. We I had on Mondays, I now

[3:50:30] have to have one of the secondary

[3:50:32] trucks, a whole another crew to go out,

[3:50:35] a second crew to go out to help just so

[3:50:38] we can get it in in the eight hours in

[3:50:41] the day. You know, the requirements,

[3:50:43] just build the requirement. So change is

[3:50:45] happening. So I'm just trying to and

[3:50:48] it's just going to get busier. So

[3:50:50] >> yeah, I agree.

[3:50:52] >> And and that's where I come down with

[3:50:54] the trucks. They're they're fairly worn

[3:50:57] out now and with the you know it's just

[3:51:00] not going to get better. But yes, I

[3:51:02] think I I think another year.

[3:51:04] >> Okay.

[3:51:04] >> How you going to say? Because it either

[3:51:06] defer it or or could we hold it until a

[3:51:08] decision's made? Leave it there until a

[3:51:10] decision's made.

[3:51:12] The challenge is we were going to fund

[3:51:13] it with debt and so

[3:51:15] >> Okay.

[3:51:16] >> If you're going to issue debt, you want

[3:51:17] to

[3:51:18] >> Yeah. Then you would Yeah. Then that's

[3:51:19] Yeah. Then I' I'd say it's deferred.

[3:51:22] >> Yeah. Defer defer. Gosh, how long would

[3:51:25] it take to get a truck like that in your

[3:51:28] >> That's a good question. I'd say at least

[3:51:30] six months.

[3:51:31] >> Oh, I was thinking a year more.

[3:51:33] >> Well, I'm trying to be optimist,

[3:51:37] >> you know, and depending on requirements.

[3:51:39] I mean, if I said, "Hey, give me I just

[3:51:41] need a side load garment."

[3:51:42] >> Yeah.

[3:51:42] >> They might, you know, there might be one

[3:51:44] available, but if I get specific with

[3:51:46] it,

[3:51:47] >> special order.

[3:51:49] >> What do Do you anticipate any type of

[3:51:51] major price increase from the 400,000 to

[3:51:56] next year?

[3:51:58] >> I I would anticipate Yes, sir. to be on

[3:52:00] that to be and I'm and I'm a negative

[3:52:04] person by nature.

[3:52:05] >> So yeah, I

[3:52:07] >> I fully expect that especially with

[3:52:09] >> here that's going to be happy to admit

[3:52:13] if it's bad it's going to happen.

[3:52:15] >> Yeah.

[3:52:16] >> So if we So if we defer, we're actually

[3:52:18] deferring for two years. We defer the

[3:52:20] decision for a year and it's going to

[3:52:21] take a year to get a garbage truck and

[3:52:23] then we defer.

[3:52:23] >> But if we don't defer, what will we do

[3:52:25] with the new garbage truck? I'm not just

[3:52:28] arguing. I'm just Procedurally, yeah, we

[3:52:31] would push it out of here and encumber

[3:52:32] it, but it might not get there till the

[3:52:34] following year if we do it.

[3:52:37] >> That's a good point.

[3:52:38] >> Yeah. I mean, if we have a new truck,

[3:52:40] then what are we going to do with it?

[3:52:41] >> You could blind us with your first

[3:52:43] service payment 28.

[3:52:50] » Closing the transfer station, but this

[3:52:53] is this discussion is on contracting

[3:52:55] residential,

[3:52:56] >> right? And we don't want to make a

[3:52:57] decision on that. Yeah. Yes, we have the

[3:52:59] details.

[3:53:00] >> Yeah, we have a detail.

[3:53:02] >> I agree.

[3:53:04] >> Can we all defer?

[3:53:06] >> And most of it's public.

[3:53:08] >> It's a flat bed, a grab bucket.

[3:53:10] >> Defer,

[3:53:11] >> roll off dumpsters. And then the one we

[3:53:13] the police department put on is they

[3:53:15] have incar and body camera system for

[3:53:17] 300,000. I'm guessing they need to order

[3:53:20] rather than later. I'm not 100% sure.

[3:53:25] >> But vice mayor, I just want to let you

[3:53:27] know I do have first knowledge from a

[3:53:30] colleague who who does that and uh Brad

[3:53:33] P and he said he is currently you know

[3:53:36] he purchas

[3:53:43] » so significant would that be 25 grand or

[3:53:45] >> yeah I'd say

[3:53:46] >> okay so I just want to look at

[3:53:50] >> but he's moving towards the one armed

[3:53:53] they call one man single operator which

[3:53:56] are technology with the lack of staffing

[3:53:59] that he hasn't

[3:54:02] gone.

[3:54:05] >> So,

[3:54:06] >> but he said he did see a price.

[3:54:08] >> Okay.

[3:54:09] >> It's all going up. It's going to

[3:54:10] increase. It's not coming down.

[3:54:13] >> No, sir.

[3:54:13] >> Yeah.

[3:54:14] >> It's not a question of if it's how much.

[3:54:16] >> Well, I mean, I'm my my first tour duty

[3:54:19] on the town council. We ordered the

[3:54:21] first ladder truck like 750,000. How

[3:54:24] much is it now?

[3:54:25] >> A million.

[3:54:27] Yeah. It's not coming down.

[3:54:30] >> 5 years to get it.

[3:54:31] >> You said it takes 5 years to get it

[3:54:33] after you sign.

[3:54:34] >> Yeah. So, I'm 750,000.

[3:54:37] >> Weren't sure where that was coming from?

[3:54:39] >> Exactly.

[3:54:40] >> Yeah. So, it's not coming down.

[3:54:42] >> Yeah.

[3:54:44] >> So, you had all Okay. Deferring.

[3:54:46] >> Yeah, we Yeah, I think we all

[3:54:49] >> Okay.

[3:54:50] >> Did we get

[3:54:51] >> Were there any other pieces of equipment

[3:54:53] that would be related to this also?

[3:54:57] I did I did request a rolloff truck

[3:54:59] which is typically you know for the

[3:55:01] rolloff dumpsters for trash. Um that a

[3:55:05] grapple bucket truck which was primarily

[3:55:08] for brush but we do you utilize it for

[3:55:10] the large trees and and also during

[3:55:13] cleanup weeds that kind of thing.

[3:55:15] >> Well I would think the I think that

[3:55:16] would be something you could use

[3:55:18] immediately.

[3:55:18] >> Oh no. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I was

[3:55:20] thinking of the ones that were related

[3:55:22] to the residential

[3:55:23] >> but specifically the residential tra the

[3:55:25] trash.

[3:55:26] >> That's the only thing. Okay.

[3:55:26] >> Yes, sir.

[3:55:28] >> Okay.

[3:55:30] >> All right. What's next?

[3:55:33] >> I do have you got more on the you want

[3:55:36] to kind of info us on the CIP. Well, I

[3:55:38] was going to say, do you have any you've

[3:55:40] got them? I was going to say you got

[3:55:41] them before you. There are several items

[3:55:43] that we're going to fund with short-term

[3:55:44] debt. Then there are still are several

[3:55:46] items that we're going to pay cash for

[3:55:49] >> in all funds. So, any any questions

[3:55:50] about any of those? We're

[3:55:53] >> what are we paying cash for?

[3:55:55] >> So, anything in

[3:55:57] proposed fiscal year 2027

[3:56:00] is, for lack of a better term, cash.

[3:56:03] Anything in debt funding is the borrow.

[3:56:07] Okay. Now, we're

[3:56:09] >> on uh the proposed agenda for this week.

[3:56:12] There's the

[3:56:15] approval of the fuel control system.

[3:56:17] >> Is that going to now be a FY26 uh fund

[3:56:21] instead of a 27?

[3:56:22] >> Yeah.

[3:56:23] >> We had to move it up because

[3:56:24] >> Well, that's fine.

[3:56:26] >> We need it.

[3:56:27] >> Okay.

[3:56:31] » 17,000.

[3:56:32] >> I've been doing them all by hand. I

[3:56:33] believe

[3:56:34] >> that's okay. It's 17,000 of the good. I

[3:56:38] mean, we're paying for a tissue here,

[3:56:39] but

[3:56:41] >> um one thing I we've talked about this

[3:56:44] and I know it's it's going to have to be

[3:56:46] done at some point. The the downtown

[3:56:50] electrical underground service. At what

[3:56:52] point are we going to

[3:56:55] get that in the budget and start that or

[3:56:58] is it already in here? And I didn't see

[3:57:00] it because that is

[3:57:03] failing at different times, is it not?

[3:57:05] >> Well, I'm going to defer to John on how

[3:57:07] we're how it's actually functioning.

[3:57:10] >> I mean, we know it's we know a lot of

[3:57:12] the underground electric was put there

[3:57:13] like in the mid 80s.

[3:57:15] >> Yeah, it it's still functioning. Uh,

[3:57:18] generally it's either works or it

[3:57:20] doesn't work. So, one day it looks good,

[3:57:22] the next day it's

[3:57:24] >> maybe I was too harsh.

[3:57:26] But we do we when we get to our budget,

[3:57:28] we do have some underground circuit

[3:57:31] replacement. We figure we'd work it into

[3:57:33] that over the next 5 years.

[3:57:34] >> Okay.

[3:57:36] >> Yeah.

[3:57:38] >> Well, and somewhat related to that, we

[3:57:41] are going to go we're the sidewalks are

[3:57:43] showing aggregate in several places

[3:57:45] downtown. We are going to proceed this

[3:57:47] spring with sealing those. So that

[3:57:50] hazard's address and we and the main

[3:57:52] reason we're doing that is we didn't

[3:57:53] want to replace sidewalks that might be

[3:57:56] taken up not too in the future but it's

[3:57:58] all related.

[3:58:05] » Okay. Sorry. Can I jump in?

[3:58:10] >> Thank you was done. I just wanted to so

[3:58:14] the uh like for the uh building grounds

[3:58:17] for the town or the town building

[3:58:19] grounds the two and a half million we're

[3:58:21] looking at I guess for the municipal

[3:58:22] building the stuff that's requested in

[3:58:25] FY28

[3:58:27] I thought man maybe I just misunderstood

[3:58:30] but I thought one of the things we

[3:58:32] mentioned about when we do the municipal

[3:58:33] building we were going to look at

[3:58:35] rolling as much as we could into it so

[3:58:37] we would have that cost one time and not

[3:58:40] in later. So I didn't

[3:58:44] >> main concern is our debt capacity is

[3:58:46] that we can issue two and a half million

[3:58:48] without exceeding the payment we

[3:58:50] currently have budgeted. So we now under

[3:58:54] discussions with the engineering firm

[3:58:56] feel like two and a half is just going

[3:58:58] to cover electric. We're not going to

[3:59:01] have a lot of extra.

[3:59:02] >> Okay. No windows.

[3:59:03] >> That's fair. I just wanted to make sure

[3:59:04] that

[3:59:04] >> no new windows or anything.

[3:59:07] >> I'll defer a part, but if there's red

[3:59:10] down on price,

[3:59:11] >> we'll throw it in.

[3:59:13] >> Okay. Well, I just wanted to for me just

[3:59:16] to get clarity on that. I mean, this is

[3:59:18] a another thing for the uh toilets out

[3:59:21] at the park. I mean, I don't you know, I

[3:59:23] know in the park service, not that you'd

[3:59:25] want to, but you can make them really

[3:59:26] nice. They have those compositing

[3:59:28] toilets that you know are just as a as a

[3:59:32] thought. And then I think for me at

[3:59:35] least part of the discussion on some of

[3:59:37] the capital improvement goes back to

[3:59:39] what Tom had been mentioned and others

[3:59:40] have mentioned is levels of service. I

[3:59:43] mean we have a you know in 28 we have a

[3:59:47] automated leave collection truck uh and

[3:59:51] some other things that we do as a

[3:59:53] service to the community which is nice

[3:59:56] but as he has said with new buildings

[3:59:59] and new homes coming online he barely

[4:00:02] has enough to keep up with trash

[4:00:03] collecting. So I think we actually at

[4:00:05] some point have to have a a cons a

[4:00:07] discussion on what levels of service we

[4:00:10] maintain and what we don't.

[4:00:12] Well, I think that goes back a lot to

[4:00:14] duplication of services, going back and

[4:00:17] figuring out what we want to continue

[4:00:19] doing and what the county is currently

[4:00:21] doing that we can take advantage of and

[4:00:24] the residents mainly.

[4:00:25] >> Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like Todd said,

[4:00:26] I mean, we can take our uh brush to the

[4:00:30] county, but a lot of people homeowners

[4:00:33] will cut it, put it at the edge of the

[4:00:35] road, so Tom people kind of pick it up.

[4:00:37] Is that something we do and continue to

[4:00:39] do? Let him do it. and does he have the

[4:00:42] people? That's that's those are the

[4:00:43] things I just think we they're nice and

[4:00:46] they are definitely benefits, but we

[4:00:48] have to have that discussion if it's if

[4:00:49] we're able to keep that up or not.

[4:00:51] >> No, I totally agree with you that that

[4:00:53] plus the spring and fall cleanup. Are

[4:00:55] they things we want to continue to do? I mean, that cost us

[4:00:59] money.

[4:01:01] >> Yes.

[4:01:03] >> That's going to be part of the uh the

[4:01:06] presentation. I guess I'm going to give

[4:01:08] you guys numbers on that. Is it

[4:01:13] You go to shockers.

[4:01:15] >> Maybe not shockers. What should you

[4:01:16] beware

[4:01:19] during those cleanups? I should

[4:01:21] >> Yeah.

[4:01:22] >> To try to put it nicely.

[4:01:23] >> Yeah. But but no, Dave, I think you're

[4:01:24] on the the right path there that we have

[4:01:27] to continue to look at what do we want

[4:01:30] to continue doing and and but what what

[4:01:33] is it someone else can do better, right?

[4:01:36] at the same cost or cheaper, but what

[4:01:39] are some of the things we need to get

[4:01:41] out of? And and yeah, it's kind of like

[4:01:44] years back closing the landfill on

[4:01:46] Saturday was was a big shock to some

[4:01:49] people, but they got over it. So, you

[4:01:51] know, we just have to make those

[4:01:53] decisions at some point in time. But

[4:01:55] you're right, we have to look at it.

[4:01:58] >> I think

[4:01:58] >> Well, it's either that or it's either

[4:02:00] that or major tax increases.

[4:02:03] >> You got to do something.

[4:02:04] >> You That's right. You have to weigh the

[4:02:05] options. You're right. Correct.

[4:02:13] Um, one thing I I know there's a clear

[4:02:16] answer to this on page 80. Mary on

[4:02:19] computer community development future

[4:02:22] planning

[4:02:23] 2484

[4:02:26] 2544,000 and 26 35,000. What What does

[4:02:30] that include?

[4:02:31] >> What page are you on? on page 80.

[4:02:35] >> That's your comp plan.

[4:02:36] >> Said future future planning. Oh, was

[4:02:39] that that the comp plan?

[4:02:41] >> Okay. Good. Good. Good. Good.

[4:02:47] » Yeah, that crossed my mind, but I want

[4:02:49] to be sure. Thank you.

[4:02:52] All right. What else do I have? What page are we on now?

[4:02:57] Where do we want to go?

[4:03:00] Continue on.

[4:03:02] 81.

[4:03:03] >> I'll give you the comfort level. That's

[4:03:05] all I had in this section.

[4:03:07] >> What What else do the rest of y'all

[4:03:08] have?

[4:03:09] >> What do you got, Stacey? What

[4:03:11] >> page? I'm just looking right now.

[4:03:13] >> Okay.

[4:03:16] » The dredging of Liberty Lake. Is that

[4:03:19] next year or the year after? Okay.

[4:03:21] >> It be a good thing to do.

[4:03:24] >> It needs it, doesn't it?

[4:03:25] >> Of course, we also have a drainage issue

[4:03:27] with a neighbor that's contributing to

[4:03:28] that. I mean, realistically too, Tom, do

[4:03:30] you think 100,000 is I mean, with

[4:03:33] permitting, that's probably just permits

[4:03:35] and everything.

[4:03:35] >> It may,

[4:03:37] >> but yes, 100 grand.

[4:03:39] >> That That's a Let's put this on the

[4:03:41] radar so you know it's an issue, right?

[4:03:42] >> That's a placeholder.

[4:03:44] >> Yeah,

[4:03:45] that won't cost you anything next year,

[4:03:47] but we want you to be aware of it.

[4:03:51] >> I mean, it's easily, at least my

[4:03:53] experience is

[4:03:55] one half,2 million dollars.

[4:04:02] Okay, moving on.

[4:04:06] » Wet blanket. That's right.

[4:04:08] >> You ready?

[4:04:14] » All right.

[4:04:16] >> 82.

[4:04:17] >> I do have one right here.

[4:04:18] >> What page are you?

[4:04:19] >> Page 82.

[4:04:20] >> 82. Page two.

[4:04:26] That's in the middle of the page of the

[4:04:28] supervision engineering.

[4:04:31] $425,000.

[4:04:33] The truck.

[4:04:34] >> Is that for you, John? The electric

[4:04:36] truck or

[4:04:37] >> where where are we here?

[4:04:38] >> The replacement truck next year.

[4:04:40] >> Page 82. Oh, yeah. Yeah, actually. Um,

[4:04:46] we have two trucks that we ordered. I

[4:04:48] thought we had one in the previous year

[4:04:50] as well.

[4:04:51] Um, yeah, that's a a truck, a large uh

[4:04:55] bucket truck. It's replacing one that's

[4:04:59] I don't know 18 years old and uh it's worn out.

[4:05:04] >> So, what truck are we replacing?

[4:05:06] >> Well, a large bucket truck. It's the one

[4:05:08] that Jeff Fur drives basically.

[4:05:10] >> So, do we ever sell any trucks at

[4:05:12] surplus or anything like that? I know we

[4:05:14] got rid of some other vehicles. The last

[4:05:17] few we've sent to auction when we were

[4:05:20] done with them. Uh the last one we sent

[4:05:23] I think we got $20,000 $22,000 for it.

[4:05:26] So we have one uh kind of surplus truck.

[4:05:30] It's a what we call line truck which is

[4:05:32] a digger derek truck. Um and right now

[4:05:37] it's uh it's so old that we can't get

[4:05:39] Altech to certify it anymore. So we use

[4:05:41] it uh to tow basically.

[4:05:44] Uh if we have a large load to tow,

[4:05:46] that's what we use that for. Uh do we

[4:05:50] want to keep it? Uh if it starts costing

[4:05:52] us money, we'll we'll send it to

[4:05:54] auction.

[4:05:55] >> So this is just replacing one truck,

[4:05:57] right?

[4:05:57] >> That's replacing one truck, but we do I

[4:06:00] thought we had another truck in here

[4:06:02] from previous year

[4:06:05] because we not only have that one

[4:06:07] coming, which we just got the uh invoice

[4:06:10] for $440,000

[4:06:12] >> that's on here.

[4:06:14] stage 419

[4:06:16] truck.

[4:06:17] >> Okay. Yeah, that's the that is and then

[4:06:21] we also have what we call small bucket

[4:06:22] truck. Both of these trucks were ordered

[4:06:24] the the large bucket truck was ordered 5

[4:06:27] years ago and then the small was ordered

[4:06:30] four years ago. So, uh we were hoping,

[4:06:34] you know, expecting both to be delivered

[4:06:36] in budget year 27,

[4:06:39] but it looks like the first truck is

[4:06:41] actually ready. So that may come before

[4:06:43] the end of this year. And that was

[4:06:45] $419,000 was in the budget and that has

[4:06:49] come in at $440,000.

[4:06:51] >> Both these really should be in

[4:06:53] transmission distribution. I think

[4:06:54] that's the question.

[4:06:57] >> Oh well, they're capital

[4:06:58] >> items, but

[4:07:00] >> yeah.

[4:07:01] >> So my question to you is, you know, we

[4:07:05] got a lot of things going on this year.

[4:07:06] We got that $750,000 coming up. We're

[4:07:09] going to not have next year or whatever.

[4:07:12] There's a truck that you're replacing.

[4:07:13] Well, that just like we asked Tom about

[4:07:15] the trash truck, that truck that you're

[4:07:17] replacing, will that last another year

[4:07:18] or so? Because you remember a couple

[4:07:21] years ago we split the payments instead

[4:07:23] of doing a 420.

[4:07:25] I'm going to use 450 and we split it

[4:07:27] half gave you half one year you went

[4:07:29] ordered a truck and gave you the other

[4:07:31] half the next time when the truck came

[4:07:33] in a year or so later or whatever.

[4:07:34] >> Yeah. Uh because of the lead time in

[4:07:37] these things and they're finally

[4:07:39] becoming available.

[4:07:41] Uh I I wouldn't suggest that we defer

[4:07:45] them there. If I had to defer something,

[4:07:47] I'd defer something else other than

[4:07:49] these two trucks because of the long

[4:07:51] lead times. You know, we had to get our

[4:07:53] place in line 5 years ago. If we give it

[4:07:56] up and say, "No, we don't want it. It'll

[4:07:58] be another 5 years till we can replace

[4:08:00] it."

[4:08:05] I think it's a little different here

[4:08:06] with the garbage truck in that we're

[4:08:08] looking possibly get out of that

[4:08:09] business whereas I don't think we're

[4:08:11] going to get out of electrical business

[4:08:13] anytime soon. But they we wear out uh

[4:08:16] very quickly and they'll a truck like

[4:08:18] that you you have to piece meal together

[4:08:21] and you end up spending a lot more money

[4:08:23] on it than you normally would if you

[4:08:25] just send it to auction or replace it.

[4:08:28] >> This one's also PGO cash funded instead

[4:08:31] of debt funded as well.

[4:08:35] Yeah. So, uh, like you know, you can see

[4:08:38] it's been in the it's, you know, was in

[4:08:41] the budget last year which was approved

[4:08:43] and and this year's, uh, it's just a

[4:08:46] matter of timing for us when they become

[4:08:48] available and the lead time that we have

[4:08:50] to plan for to get them. So, uh, I would

[4:08:54] suspect that, uh, we know the big bucket

[4:08:56] truck that we have that we're replacing,

[4:08:59] we'll probably send that to auction

[4:09:00] because it's worn out. You know, it's

[4:09:03] probably not worth keeping. The small

[4:09:06] bucket truck we're replacing, we'll

[4:09:08] probably hang on to that for a little

[4:09:09] while because it's used, still somewhat

[4:09:12] usable, but it's not becoming a

[4:09:14] frontline truck anymore. You know, it's

[4:09:16] got to be relegated to a part-time

[4:09:18] situation.

[4:09:20] So uh and that truck uh is 11 years old

[4:09:23] to 12 years old.

[4:09:26] >> What is average lifespan on on the

[4:09:30] utility trucks?

[4:09:31] >> I know that uh APCO replaces every seven

[4:09:34] years.

[4:09:35] >> I I thought it was less than

[4:09:36] >> or maybe even less than that. So we're

[4:09:39] talking about 11 to 18 years that we're

[4:09:42] getting out of trucks, which is a lot

[4:09:45] more.

[4:09:46] >> They have a lot bigger territory to

[4:09:47] serve also.

[4:09:48] >> Yeah. and our trucks get beat up. And

[4:09:50] when you're working up in Big Island or

[4:09:52] around there, it's it's a different

[4:09:54] world

[4:09:54] >> than being down here.

[4:09:56] >> We depreciate it every seven years.

[4:09:59] here.

[4:10:14] Any more CIP questions?

[4:10:22] Are you all ready for general fund or or

[4:10:24] not?

[4:10:29] Y'all aren't going line by line, are

[4:10:30] you?

[4:10:32] >> No.

[4:10:34] >> There might be a couple of questions,

[4:10:36] lot items, not general fun.

[4:10:38] >> Okay, y'all. Y'all want to go? Y'all

[4:10:40] ready for general fun?

[4:10:42] >> Let's roll. All right, general fun.

[4:10:48] » All right.

[4:10:59] What do y'all have? I'm let somebody

[4:11:02] speak,

[4:11:04] >> but

[4:11:06] you're leading the pack. Dave, don't

[4:11:08] stop on comments.

[4:11:12] » I just curious about the I think it was

[4:11:14] the retail sales actually. Was it the

[4:11:16] resale sales?

[4:11:18] >> What page?

[4:11:19] >> It's on It's on page

[4:11:21] >> 89.

[4:11:22] It's the revenues. Yeah, I was

[4:11:23] looking at the revenues where we're

[4:11:25] projecting it dropping a little bit.

[4:11:29] >> We did because we had one retailer that

[4:11:32] was reclassified as a wholesaler.

[4:11:34] >> Okay.

[4:11:34] >> Um so that dropped the revenue quite a

[4:11:36] bit. But I will say based on

[4:11:40] budget um amounts that we currently

[4:11:42] have. So we proposed the budget, but

[4:11:44] it's due in the end of March, we

[4:11:46] collected a lot of times through April,

[4:11:47] but we've now built everything today. We

[4:11:50] have build out retail sales of $450,000.

[4:11:55] So that's big difference. So you do have

[4:11:58] a surplus in that line item based on

[4:12:01] what we've built out this year.

[4:12:08] other in the same vein on the same page.

[4:12:10] The question I would I had was I mean I

[4:12:13] may be kind of late to the but the

[4:12:15] payments to from the water authority

[4:12:18] >> it was almost half a million through

[4:12:20] until 27. What was that?

[4:12:23] >> That's reimbursing us for general

[4:12:24] obligation debt that was for water and

[4:12:26] sewer lines that we couldn't assign.

[4:12:28] >> Okay.

[4:12:29] >> It's fully paid now. So the the debt

[4:12:32] also dropped off on the expense.

[4:12:34] >> Yeah. Okay. was a one for one.

[4:12:46] Of course, above that when is voluntary

[4:12:49] settlement agreement, we are working on

[4:12:51] a plan for that

[4:12:54] tentatively. Something that may be

[4:12:56] workable in partners.

[4:12:59] Good answer.

[4:13:02] Right.

[4:13:09] Page 90

[4:13:16] 91

[4:13:20] question on that. I don't want to lead

[4:13:21] it be beat up. Uh, but I just

[4:13:26] so it seems like and Jim, sorry I'm

[4:13:29] going to beat you up a little bit, but

[4:13:30] it seems like the court finds and

[4:13:32] forfeitures. I mean, I don't know if

[4:13:34] it's tickets or whatever, but it's seems

[4:13:37] like it's on a on a downward slope. Is

[4:13:40] that

[4:13:42] >> what you're seeing?

[4:13:43] >> It should be picking up significantly

[4:13:44] now that I got more people. We're

[4:13:46] working a lot more extra enforcement,

[4:13:50] DMV grants,

[4:13:52] ASAP type stuff and even parking

[4:13:55] enforcement increasing over the past

[4:14:01] » do a lot of your folks still have to

[4:14:05] escort people to the hospital type thing

[4:14:08] and have to stay there with them.

[4:14:09] >> Oh yeah. And that's and that could be

[4:14:11] somebody coming in from another

[4:14:12] jurisdiction because we have the

[4:14:14] hospital here,

[4:14:14] >> right? that ties our people up a lot

[4:14:17] more eco ts.

[4:14:35] » Where are we?

[4:14:44] 91

[4:14:45] >> 91

[4:14:54] » 92

[4:15:03] you good 93

[4:15:17] This may be next to nothing as far as

[4:15:21] things that go on, but one of the things

[4:15:24] that I notice is

[4:15:27] postage. We're asking for a whole lot

[4:15:29] less than we have in the past, but it's

[4:15:30] my understanding postage is going up. Is

[4:15:33] that something we need to take another

[4:15:35] look at or is that a pretty good figure?

[4:15:38] >> Which um which department?

[4:15:39] >> Well, just pick a department. I mean it

[4:15:41] just there was several

[4:15:42] >> mine's proposed to go down but

[4:15:44] >> I send email. I don't worry.

[4:15:47] >> Most of us because we created cost

[4:15:48] centers and the electric fund is and now

[4:15:50] we're sharing the postage cost electric

[4:15:52] fund. I mean I'll give you a primary

[4:15:54] example in the treasur's office. We've

[4:15:56] been sending out disconnects and bills

[4:15:58] out of the general funds postage and so

[4:16:01] now we'll start allocating it to

[4:16:03] electric fund instead of paying for it

[4:16:04] out general fund.

[4:16:06] >> Okay.

[4:16:07] >> Yeah. Cuz one of the one of the ones was

[4:16:09] it was for the treasur and it was half

[4:16:11] of what it was last year. It's like

[4:16:15] >> that's what they're talking about going

[4:16:16] up to eight bucks or something like this

[4:16:18] and we're we're coming down 50%.

[4:16:20] >> Yeah. We're going to start allocating

[4:16:21] our costs depending on function. So will

[4:16:24] you bring that up vice mayor up like do

[4:16:27] we need to talk about what we talked

[4:16:28] about earlier about possibly

[4:16:32] doing away with the post parson doing it

[4:16:34] ourselves and stuff like that saving

[4:16:36] money in the process stuff or do we need

[4:16:39] to have discussion now later

[4:16:44] » about having a postage

[4:16:46] >> well like Mr. warning to holes at the

[4:16:48] beginning to be doing away with the

[4:16:50] mailing service, doing it ourselves,

[4:16:52] putting it out, mailing it that way,

[4:16:55] saving money and not having a mail.

[4:16:57] Where's our mailing service? North

[4:16:58] Carolina.

[4:16:59] >> It's in Vernick. So, they pick it up

[4:17:01] here and they take it to a mass

[4:17:02] distribution center.

[4:17:04] >> I'm fully in support of that because

[4:17:06] we've had a lot of issues associated

[4:17:08] with it. Also, we spend a lot of

[4:17:10] staffing and stuffing like myself

[4:17:15] director did that yesterday.

[4:17:16] >> Yeah. Once we bought the equipment,

[4:17:19] I it's really more of an operational

[4:17:21] issue for me.

[4:17:22] >> I I was going to say

[4:17:23] >> I like knowing that when we send

[4:17:24] something out, everybody's going to get

[4:17:25] it.

[4:17:26] >> I don't have that confidence right now.

[4:17:28] >> I would say that would be up to the

[4:17:30] staff because it's really a staff issue

[4:17:32] and not

[4:17:33] >> biggest issue is the startup cost for

[4:17:34] the

[4:17:35] >> correct just the folder inserter is over

[4:17:38] $10,000 and then I'm guessing the

[4:17:40] postage machine is another 5 to7,000. So

[4:17:43] you're probably talking about 17 18

[4:17:46] >> equipment.

[4:17:47] >> Is it AMS? No, not AMS. What's the

[4:17:50] >> automated mailing service?

[4:17:52] >> And that in that contract is how much?

[4:17:55] >> Um, it's a per item contract. So we pay

[4:17:58] a slight premium over postage per piece

[4:18:01] of mail.

[4:18:03] >> Anyway, I'm sorry. That's really more of

[4:18:05] an operational issue. It does have

[4:18:07] upfront cost,

[4:18:08] >> but it does have in each department like

[4:18:11] poke in this department, purchases

[4:18:13] in that department and stuff like that.

[4:18:15] So that would if we done it all together

[4:18:17] in one thing. Would you have that in

[4:18:20] each?

[4:18:20] >> Yes, we would still allocate the cost to

[4:18:22] each department.

[4:18:24] >> Yeah.

[4:18:27] » But really at the end of the day, it's

[4:18:28] not rocket science. So if you had a

[4:18:31] couple reliable volunteers that would

[4:18:33] come in then becomes

[4:18:35] >> I can do it.

[4:18:36] >> Well I mean

[4:18:36] >> to your point we definitely know it's

[4:18:38] not like a science

[4:18:41] >> that's expensive.

[4:18:42] >> Former Marine can do it.

[4:18:46] >> You volunteer.

[4:18:47] >> Yeah.

[4:18:49] >> Put his name down. I might as well I

[4:18:50] volunteer for everything else. So

[4:18:53] >> we think you for yourself.

[4:18:56] >> You continue talking about that.

[4:18:58] >> You volunteered once. That's enough,

[4:18:59] huh?

[4:19:01] >> But but no, I think that's a between

[4:19:04] staff to have break figure out the the

[4:19:07] benefits and costs and all that.

[4:19:09] >> Okay.

[4:19:10] >> How how you would benefit from it.

[4:19:11] >> The main thing is budget funding. We

[4:19:13] would need to have it approved for

[4:19:15] budget funding.

[4:19:20] » I was just, you know, when I first read

[4:19:22] over it, it was like, are we going to

[4:19:24] get into, you know, August or, you know,

[4:19:28] something? We need more money because we

[4:19:29] spent we spent our allocation in in

[4:19:32] postage already.

[4:19:37] » Increase the rates again.

[4:19:38] >> Yes,

[4:19:43] » that's another topic.

[4:19:45] >> I will say postage looks kind of high,

[4:19:47] but it does also include things other

[4:19:49] than just postage. It includes our

[4:19:51] mailing envelopes as well.

[4:19:57] I would say that would be discussion

[4:19:59] y'all have to figure it out and let us

[4:20:02] know.

[4:20:02] >> We'll let you know what it cost.

[4:20:04] >> Yeah.

[4:20:05] >> All right.

[4:20:07] >> 95.

[4:20:09] >> Yeah.

[4:20:11] >> 96.

[4:20:11] >> I'm at 99. Sorry.

[4:20:14] >> 132.

[4:20:18] » 96. We're wrong.

[4:20:19] >> Yes, sir.

[4:20:23] chief up again. Sorry. Chief,

[4:20:25] >> Jim, it's just I'm I'm concerned a

[4:20:27] little bit about the overtime rate

[4:20:32] for one. I mean, we're at it's projected

[4:20:35] to be at $24,000.

[4:20:38] I mean, that's I mean, I know that.

[4:20:43] Can you kind of tell me how that plays

[4:20:46] in or is it I mean is it like is it

[4:20:48] going to be be more of uh folks having

[4:20:51] to do the like say TDOS CCOs and things

[4:20:53] like that or is it

[4:20:54] >> that's part of it we do get some of that

[4:20:56] money back

[4:20:58] but there's also unfunded special

[4:21:00] events. There's also things like

[4:21:02] Halloween when we have everybody out

[4:21:04] because it's such a dangerous situation

[4:21:06] which is not a town function.

[4:21:08] >> Correct. Um cost place for holiday

[4:21:12] things like that. things I was actually

[4:21:14] unaware of that.

[4:21:15] >> Correct.

[4:21:17] >> So, and and as I'm finally going to be

[4:21:20] hopefully fully staffed, that should be

[4:21:24] a little bit less extra over time as

[4:21:26] well because we plan to handle

[4:21:30] TDOS and ECOS is a big

[4:21:35] >> I was I was I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[4:21:36] >> I was going to ask earlier uh we was

[4:21:38] talking about the ECOS and TDOS's.

[4:21:41] That's a Richmond generated thing. Do we

[4:21:43] Is there any compensation that that we

[4:21:45] get back from Richmond for doing that?

[4:21:47] >> We get some of it back and there's

[4:21:49] actually uh through Horizon there's a

[4:21:51] special transport company that from time

[4:21:53] to time will help us out. Best case

[4:21:56] scenario sometimes we have to go serve

[4:21:58] papers and they'll sit and transport

[4:22:00] them but it doesn't happen very often.

[4:22:03] So it's a work in progress. I know the

[4:22:06] previous uh administration made some

[4:22:08] strides towards helping and I'm hoping

[4:22:11] that the current administration is going

[4:22:13] to continue to to help us out with that

[4:22:15] as well.

[4:22:18] It's not a not a m magic bullet, but

[4:22:21] mental health, which is something that

[4:22:23] police have been pulled into in nearly

[4:22:24] every state, which is really something

[4:22:27] unless somebody's an immediate threat to

[4:22:30] someone else, it's really something we

[4:22:31] shouldn't be fooled with.

[4:22:34] But you do

[4:22:36] >> seems to get worse every year.

[4:22:41] » There were a couple of bills passed this

[4:22:43] year that should h that should help, but

[4:22:45] I don't know if they were funded. Do you

[4:22:47] know?

[4:22:48] >> I don't know.

[4:22:53] » And that does the does the overtime

[4:22:55] include

[4:22:58] officers you have on call?

[4:23:00] >> Yes.

[4:23:01] >> Yeah. detectives are the only ones that

[4:23:03] get

[4:23:07] » and this isn't this next one's not

[4:23:08] comment's not on you but we talked about

[4:23:10] it before the next slide item is

[4:23:12] compensation special events that's about

[4:23:14] $12,000 but if we can start recouping

[4:23:17] some of that then that goes toward

[4:23:19] helping

[4:23:20] >> out

[4:23:21] an example we're over in that category

[4:23:23] this year

[4:23:26] >> so we're having regular

[4:23:31] » thanks

[4:23:39] Good.

[4:23:40] >> And one other change I may want to just

[4:23:43] point out is we did used to have career

[4:23:45] enhancements separately and we've rolled

[4:23:47] that into their compensation in 25. So

[4:23:50] that's one change to increase

[4:23:52] compensation.

[4:24:06] 97.

[4:24:11] » I mean, we can go through each page, but

[4:24:13] do you all have anything specific that

[4:24:15] you have on I mean, we can just pull the

[4:24:17] pages y'all have notes on and talk about

[4:24:19] those or

[4:24:20] >> up on 98.

[4:24:21] >> Okay. up there

[4:24:24] vehicle replacement

[4:24:26] under the PD $272,000.

[4:24:31] I know we've been doing the lease

[4:24:32] program. The lease program has been

[4:24:34] working very well for us. So, I'm just

[4:24:35] trying to see why that number flatuated

[4:24:38] that high this year.

[4:24:39] >> Uh because we're slowly phasing out the

[4:24:42] vehicles

[4:24:44] that are getting to the end of life. So,

[4:24:46] that's going to go up a little bit.

[4:24:48] We're going to be adding additional

[4:24:49] vehicles over the next couple years and

[4:24:51] then we'll be a totally least.

[4:24:55] » I see something new here because they

[4:24:56] look very nice.

[4:24:58] >> Yeah, I think it's important to keep the

[4:24:59] guys in the gate vehicle that looks good

[4:25:03] on the town and we're not having to have

[4:25:06] vehicles in the shop constantly for

[4:25:08] breakdowns.

[4:25:09] >> Them challengers are building some real

[4:25:11] problems today.

[4:25:13] I think you had replacement engines in a

[4:25:15] couple of them or something like that.

[4:25:17] It's pretty expensive and time

[4:25:18] consuming.

[4:25:21] >> Well, yeah, I I was along the same wise

[4:25:25] and explained some things to me which I

[4:25:28] still don't understand. But my my

[4:25:30] concern had been if you had looked at

[4:25:32] the last two fiscal years and the

[4:25:34] projection for the next one, we've spent

[4:25:36] almost a million dollars in three years

[4:25:38] on replacement vehicles. And I know that

[4:25:40] they're being leased, but that's that's

[4:25:44] a healthy sum of change. So, and you

[4:25:47] mentioned how the accounting stuff works

[4:25:50] and everything that we're only actually

[4:25:52] paying like $15,000 a month, right?

[4:25:55] >> Correct.

[4:25:56] >> Yeah. Gatsby 87 is a new accounting

[4:25:58] standard that came out a couple years

[4:25:59] ago that plays into that. It requires

[4:26:01] when you issue a new lease to take the

[4:26:04] present value of all your lease payments

[4:26:06] and record it as a revenue and expense

[4:26:09] all in one year and then you start

[4:26:10] advertising it with your normal

[4:26:12] payments. But what that does is it sure

[4:26:14] makes your financials look bad because

[4:26:16] you're looking at how much you spent.

[4:26:17] You're seeing that full lease cost hit

[4:26:19] in one year. It's not really accurate.

[4:26:21] You have to net it with revenue line

[4:26:23] item as well.

[4:26:25] >> I think also on that lease program once

[4:26:27] we sell a vehicle back to them, we make

[4:26:29] a little bit of money on it.

[4:26:30] >> Yes, we do. So, we do pay a premium to

[4:26:33] Enterprise for the lease program.

[4:26:34] there's an interest that we pay and

[4:26:36] that's how they make money on the

[4:26:37] program. But when they sell it at the

[4:26:39] end, we do rec recoup what they sell

[4:26:42] over what we agree to and we almost

[4:26:44] always end up on the positive side. We

[4:26:46] do a great job.

[4:26:50] My last my last question about what you

[4:26:52] said is is there as you looked at it would there

[4:26:58] be a potential cost savings to have

[4:27:01] enterprise do the maintenance and upkeep

[4:27:04] versus the town? I I don't know. I'm

[4:27:06] just asking.

[4:27:07] >> That's a good question. The last time

[4:27:08] that I sat in, it's been two years, but

[4:27:12] I will say the last time I sat in on a

[4:27:13] boat, it was around 50 or 60 bucks per

[4:27:15] month for a vehicle to add into the

[4:27:17] fixed maintenance program. That means we

[4:27:19] didn't pay if it went into the shop. So,

[4:27:22] you would have to add 5060 a month. It

[4:27:24] could be a little bit more now per

[4:27:26] vehicle,

[4:27:28] but you will see to look at their um

[4:27:31] budget. If you look at outside repair in

[4:27:34] their garage, you can see the studying

[4:27:38] has gone down substantially

[4:27:41] cuz we started the program back in 23 I

[4:27:45] think

[4:27:54] » repair outside garage which I wish you

[4:27:56] had 22 you could see 22 versus 23 you'd

[4:27:59] see a very large drop but

[4:28:03] >> how many deer you hit

[4:28:08] At least you're doing

[4:28:09] >> We had one deer strike cost 14 grand.

[4:28:13] >> Oh yeah.

[4:28:13] >> At least you're doing your part to

[4:28:14] reduce the deer. That's right.

[4:28:16] >> Is that the deer eradication program?

[4:28:20] » That's pretty expensive.

[4:28:23] >> One shot, one kill.

[4:28:29] » Yeah. I mean, I just it's just it'd be

[4:28:30] something that would be interesting to

[4:28:32] see, I think, if uh but yeah, it looks

[4:28:35] like it's gone down. It's just

[4:28:38] I'm sure he's got a lot of his hands

[4:28:40] full working fixing other things as

[4:28:42] well, too.

[4:28:47] All right.

[4:28:50] 99. We're good.

[4:28:56] You want to pick a paper?

[4:28:59] 90 99.

[4:29:01] >> Okay. Uh

[4:29:03] community development along the same

[4:29:06] lines of the auto repairs, outside

[4:29:09] garage.

[4:29:11] What does $50 cover in any type of

[4:29:14] outside garage repair?

[4:29:15] >> It's it's a placeholder.

[4:29:18] We have the code enforcement vehicles

[4:29:20] and we used to have to have a line item

[4:29:22] charge to if something goes wrong. You

[4:29:24] could zero it out.

[4:29:30] And in fact, there might even be a few

[4:29:32] line items like that that are like $50

[4:29:35] interspersed.

[4:29:36] If you're agreeable, we could zero those

[4:29:38] out and put them in contingency.

[4:29:41] As long as you all understood that we

[4:29:42] might actually hit the contingency at

[4:29:44] some point. That That's what it is.

[4:29:48] >> Well, I mean, at at a $50 limit, I

[4:29:50] expect we're going to hit contingency

[4:29:53] need. We we just when we when we zero

[4:29:56] things out, sometimes either the system

[4:29:58] or council then is tempted to do away

[4:30:00] with the line item and sometimes things

[4:30:02] come up that we don't expect and we need

[4:30:04] to code them to something appropriate

[4:30:06] like the settlement of the uh scale

[4:30:09] house issue at the county. We had to

[4:30:11] scramble to find a lot item to get that

[4:30:14] expenditure from. So that that's it's

[4:30:16] just an accounting and transparency

[4:30:19] item.

[4:30:21] Yeah,

[4:30:22] we won't spend $50. We spend anything,

[4:30:24] it's going to be more than that, but

[4:30:26] we'll pull it out of contingency.

[4:30:32] Just just want to make sure that the

[4:30:33] line item doesn't go away. We'll

[4:30:35] transfer it from contingency to this

[4:30:36] line item if something comes up.

[4:30:39] >> Is that process simpler than just paint

[4:30:41] it out of the contingency?

[4:30:43] >> Well, I mean, I'd say we'll we'll we'll

[4:30:45] let you know that's what we're doing.

[4:30:49] Is it simpler to know? Is it more

[4:30:50] transparent? Yes.

[4:30:54] » All right.

[4:30:55] >> Page 101. 101.

[4:30:58] >> General Administration Garage Materials

[4:31:00] and Supplies 20 grand.

[4:31:05] Is that the same thing?

[4:31:10] » Yeah. This is where our garage orders

[4:31:11] out. I think I would like to create

[4:31:14] account under the garage, but the reason

[4:31:17] And I understand why they don't have

[4:31:19] budget there. It's cuz they don't have

[4:31:20] an account there.

[4:31:22] So the garage is 1044350

[4:31:26] on page 104. Maintenance and motor

[4:31:28] vehicles. That's our in garage right

[4:31:30] there. But you'll see they don't have a

[4:31:32] line item for

[4:31:35] supplies. So it's coded to general

[4:31:36] administration.

[4:32:03] Okay.

[4:32:04] >> Uh,

[4:32:07] 103.

[4:32:08] >> 103.

[4:32:11] >> I thought he said 101.

[4:32:15] on 102. I just had a quick just I mean

[4:32:17] the the under the B the contract

[4:32:20] services

[4:32:21] is now showing a $60,000

[4:32:24] contract services. Is that

[4:32:27] just what is that?

[4:32:28] >> It's hurt and profit, right?

[4:32:30] >> Correct.

[4:32:30] >> I'm sorry.

[4:32:31] >> We used to have a staff person dedicated

[4:32:33] to doing the annual reporting and

[4:32:34] tracking. We've outsourced that to her

[4:32:36] profit.

[4:32:38] >> Thank you.

[4:32:40] and might save a little bit of money on

[4:32:42] benefits in the process.

[4:32:47] » There's also line item up above and

[4:32:50] general engineering 20,000 for non

[4:33:00] » where 103

[4:33:01] >> 103

[4:33:02] >> top of the page vehicle replacement 75

[4:33:04] grand. What's what vehicle is that?

[4:33:15] What what that's about is is uh public

[4:33:18] works to a point we're going to get

[4:33:20] involved in the enterprise program as

[4:33:22] well for the pickups and anything that

[4:33:25] does not uh require air brakes

[4:33:28] enterprise will handle. So that's the

[4:33:31] initial to get involved in that. And one

[4:33:34] thing I did want to bring up was to your

[4:33:36] point that's for f that's the beginning

[4:33:39] of five vehicles. I have more than that will so next year you know increase

[4:33:45] to a point and then it'll level out but

[4:33:47] that's the that's the intent for that

[4:33:50] and that is B do funds uh that can be

[4:33:52] and I got verification that can be used

[4:33:54] to start that program

[4:34:03] » on the same page Tom just this is no on

[4:34:06] any anybody or anything I'm just curious

[4:34:09] on the snow and ice removal Uh we've got

[4:34:12] about the revised budget was for this

[4:34:14] year was about 44,000. Next year we're

[4:34:17] looking at maybe 43. And my question

[4:34:19] would be is there any uh benefit to

[4:34:22] contracting that service out? I would be

[4:34:25] you think it'd be cheaper.

[4:34:28] I mean I know

[4:34:29] >> to be honest I don't know what they

[4:34:30] charge. Um the benefit would be I would

[4:34:34] stop getting complaint calls

[4:34:39] people driveway.

[4:34:41] >> That would be a benefit.

[4:34:42] >> Yeah.

[4:34:43] >> Um but beyond I don't know what they

[4:34:45] charge. Um one thing I will add in going

[4:34:49] back to the 75 the five new vehicles uh

[4:34:52] that I will be getting through

[4:34:54] Enterprise will all be outfitted with uh

[4:34:56] snow plows. Okay.

[4:34:57] >> They'll come with them.

[4:34:59] >> Okay. and as well. So, we'll also have

[4:35:02] blades and different things in reserve

[4:35:04] that should be able to be universal. Um,

[4:35:07] but uh to be honest with you,

[4:35:11] boy, that's a hard typ it's it's VOTE

[4:35:14] funded though, right?

[4:35:15] >> Yeah.

[4:35:16] >> So, there's no there's no real financial

[4:35:19] benefit to us, but operationally, you

[4:35:21] might want to look at

[4:35:22] >> Yeah. I mean, I I really think it's an

[4:35:24] operational. Yeah, we thought I guess

[4:35:26] it's a reimbursement or we can charge to

[4:35:29] them for a lot of like the maintenance

[4:35:31] and and the product audit.

[4:35:33] >> It would really be a you know,

[4:35:35] >> so so that actual 43,000 is we get some

[4:35:39] of that back.

[4:35:40] >> So, kind of how it works is VOTE gives

[4:35:43] us in the revenue side 2.3 million based

[4:35:46] on our streets. There's a formula, but

[4:35:47] we then get to allocate how we spend it.

[4:35:49] just has to be an eligible expense.

[4:35:51] >> Okay. All right.

[4:35:52] >> And to be candid, we have no earthly

[4:35:54] idea how much we're going to spend on

[4:35:56] snow and ice at any given point.

[4:35:57] >> Yeah.

[4:35:59] >> Just to be honest,

[4:36:00] >> Yeah. I mean, it could be a light year

[4:36:02] and then it could be another slammer.

[4:36:04] >> Yeah.

[4:36:05] Okay.

[4:36:07] >> But the nature is very unpredictable.

[4:36:12] And I will say this uh to add to the

[4:36:14] contract uh thing u

[4:36:18] our our employees know where the

[4:36:20] boundaries are. They know the streets.

[4:36:22] They know where to go. They know what

[4:36:24] needs to be scraped. Bring outside

[4:36:26] contractors in. They're going to have to

[4:36:28] have guidance. You have to show them.

[4:36:30] You're going to have to lead them. So

[4:36:32] some of our employees would still have

[4:36:34] to be out there with it anyway. So you

[4:36:38] have to weigh both options.

[4:36:39] >> Oh yeah.

[4:36:41] But it's a good idea.

[4:36:47] » All right. What's next, gentlemen?

[4:36:49] 104

[4:36:54] cemetery maintenance

[4:36:57] from 2500 to 10,000.

[4:37:02] a minute. We uh we had agreed to do some

[4:37:07] uh pay for some headstone

[4:37:10] uh refurbishment this year. There's a

[4:37:12] gentleman and I'm sorry I don't remember

[4:37:14] his name. I don't know if you I think

[4:37:16] his first name is John, but he comes

[4:37:18] every year and does like a class at um

[4:37:21] Longwood and um or demonstration and he

[4:37:26] you know refurbish it. He picks like

[4:37:27] five or 10 and refurbish it. So last

[4:37:30] year he made a presentation to us that

[4:37:33] he he offered up a a a cost estimate to

[4:37:37] do 10 or to do 20 or to do whatever we

[4:37:41] wanted. And so we we added to that we're

[4:37:44] going to do uh 10 this coming year. So

[4:37:47] that's what that increase for. It cover

[4:37:50] his cost to repair and update not update

[4:37:54] but just to clean and repair some of the

[4:37:56] old stuff is what that what that

[4:37:58] increase charge is about.

[4:38:05] on 104.

[4:38:10] One quick question. So on the

[4:38:13] maintenance of municipal and I'm

[4:38:15] assuming that that proposed budget, it

[4:38:18] dropped dramatically because we're

[4:38:19] looking at doing contract and

[4:38:21] everything. Okay.

[4:38:22] >> That's the hope. Yes, sir.

[4:38:26] » That's the hope.

[4:38:28] >> Well, I mean, yeah, I know. I know.

[4:38:30] Well, you know what happens when you

[4:38:31] open the can?

[4:38:32] >> Oh, I know.

[4:38:34] >> Carl says sharing some of the cost of

[4:38:38] this house is all collection.

[4:38:47] » What were you? 105

[4:38:51] >> 107

[4:38:56] Hy says

[4:38:57] >> other nondep department

[4:39:00] says contingency $332,788.

[4:39:07] » That's the amount planned for the CIP

[4:39:10] debt issuance for this building. And

[4:39:13] then the equipment

[4:39:19] page

[4:39:22] 09

[4:39:26] picking on you chief. brothers have a

[4:39:28] question for me.

[4:39:30] >> It says cop camp expenditure is $10,000

[4:39:33] there, but if you go back to the police

[4:39:36] department, it says cop camp

[4:39:37] expenditures 5,000 there.

[4:39:45] » I think it's a donation account.

[4:39:47] >> I just want

[4:39:48] >> That's the donation.

[4:39:49] >> That's what I was asking. I just saw two

[4:39:50] different ones already.

[4:39:53] >> Yeah. Fund 10 is the amount that you

[4:39:56] think local funding is going to need to

[4:39:58] supplant it to make it free for coping.

[4:40:01] This is how much donated and restricted

[4:40:03] funds you

[4:40:11] almost at 110.

[4:40:12] >> 110.

[4:40:12] >> We are 110.

[4:40:15] >> Questions on 110?

[4:40:22] » Good.

[4:40:23] >> Yeah. Okay. All right.

[4:40:26] >> We are in solid weight.

[4:40:28] >> Yes, we are.

[4:40:38] » What is that?

[4:40:40] >> All right. 11 112. Page 112.

[4:40:49] Any questions?

[4:40:51] Pretty

[4:40:53] self-explanatory.

[4:41:02] 113

[4:41:06] down here had the groundwater and

[4:41:08] monitoring old and ground monitoring new

[4:41:12] $120,000 went from 40 to 100. Are we

[4:41:15] paying somebody to do that now? Yes, we have been actually we get an updated

[4:41:21] uh review by DEEQ every so often.

[4:41:25] The old landfill is the one farther out

[4:41:28] on Orange Street. The new landfill is

[4:41:31] the one next to the transfer station.

[4:41:32] But

[4:41:33] >> yeah, in the past there was 85,000 split

[4:41:35] out into a different line.

[4:41:39] But uh

[4:41:40] >> on the next page you'll see

[4:41:43] another

[4:41:47] WSB associates are the ones that have

[4:41:49] the contract for monitoring and

[4:41:52] we will be doing that in perpetuity.

[4:41:55] >> Is everything looking okay so far?

[4:41:58] >> Yes. I mean we're

[4:41:59] >> if I can add to that we did send that

[4:42:01] out to bid.

[4:42:02] >> Yes. Okay. get bids onreased

[4:42:07] but they still

[4:42:09] >> and we are in compliance. We get those

[4:42:10] notifications.

[4:42:12] >> That's one of the emails I forward to

[4:42:13] you every now and again from DEQ.

[4:42:15] >> That's amazing how much it cost. It was

[4:42:18] very surprising to me and

[4:42:20] >> we had no choice on that

[4:42:22] >> have to do it.

[4:42:26] We're 114

[4:42:28] questions

[4:42:30] and 115

[4:42:34] » on 114 tires and tubes from 6,000 to

[4:42:38] 27,000.

[4:42:41] » I think that was to dispose of what you

[4:42:43] have, right?

[4:42:44] >> Yeah. Um, you know, that that kind of

[4:42:46] goes back some of the issues. Uh, we

[4:42:50] have a rubber tire loader that we use to separate the trash. The tires are

[4:42:56] completely bold. They are $27,000

[4:42:59] a piece.

[4:43:03] » So that's good.

[4:43:05] >> An attempt to move towards that

[4:43:09] unless we move forward with

[4:43:12] >> Yep.

[4:43:12] >> doing something else with it. I don't

[4:43:14] want to, you know,

[4:43:17] then that could possibly

[4:43:19] >> So that can go as part of

[4:43:21] >> we could sell that to whoever would be

[4:43:23] operating.

[4:43:24] could be disposed of.

[4:43:27] >> We just don't know that right now.

[4:43:28] >> Yes.

[4:43:29] >> Yeah.

[4:43:31] >> You know, that would that is a good

[4:43:33] point there in that what amount of

[4:43:36] equipment would we not need?

[4:43:38] >> That that would be it. No, you don't

[4:43:40] have to say it now, but

[4:43:42] >> that would be a good

[4:43:43] >> consider. Yes, consideration. That's why

[4:43:46] I open my statements with that. They're

[4:43:48] just

[4:43:48] >> unknown. Obviously, we we've had uh the

[4:43:52] offer of to purchase all four of the or

[4:43:55] all three of the garbage trucks, the

[4:43:57] rolloff trucks, all the tractors, all

[4:44:00] the uh the se our track semi-tractors

[4:44:05] and trailers uh down. I mean, it was all

[4:44:08] kind of a allincclusive but with the

[4:44:11] right to keep what I deemed I wanted

[4:44:15] >> essential. Yes. Okay.

[4:44:16] >> I mean, we had that in office for that.

[4:44:18] So, uh,

[4:44:19] >> yeah,

[4:44:19] >> that's what I mean. It's really kind of

[4:44:21] >> Yeah,

[4:44:24] >> big expensive like that power load. It's

[4:44:27] a great I did utilize that a lot this

[4:44:29] past in the last snow that we had when

[4:44:32] it all turned to ice.

[4:44:33] >> Yes,

[4:44:34] >> our regular trucks wouldn't even touch

[4:44:35] the ice. Couldn't push it. It just

[4:44:37] bounced right off.

[4:44:38] >> But we did utilize that tractor as best

[4:44:40] we could cuz the tires were not in the

[4:44:43] best shape. So, it was spinning a bit,

[4:44:46] but it was the only

[4:44:48] move any of that ice. So, it's, you

[4:44:50] know, it's a bit of a

[4:44:51] >> Okay.

[4:44:54] » Thank you.

[4:44:55] >> pros and cons.

[4:44:56] >> Yeah.

[4:44:58] >> All right. 115. You good?

[4:45:04] » Well, okay. Got a solid waste pretty

[4:45:08] quick. All right. Electric fund.

[4:45:16] What questions do you have?

[4:45:21] » There's always question questions about

[4:45:22] this, so don't be shy.

[4:45:26] >> 117,

[4:45:27] >> right, John?

[4:45:29] >> Hopefully, this year's a little

[4:45:30] different.

[4:45:32] >> This is just

[4:45:33] >> I think you've answered a lot of them as

[4:45:34] we have gone along.

[4:45:37] I mean, not just today, but in the past.

[4:45:41] So this is for me it was just a a

[4:45:44] curious question that the electricity

[4:45:46] sales on the open market uh it's it's

[4:45:49] showing a reduction. I mean I was just

[4:45:51] curious

[4:45:53] with such high demand outside where why

[4:45:56] how why do we have a reduction?

[4:45:59] >> Well in as we planned last year for this

[4:46:03] um we have we're planning for growth. So

[4:46:06] we're presuming that we'll consume more

[4:46:08] than we are now right now. Um so we

[4:46:12] expect you know that's what we expect

[4:46:14] plus usage has gone up so we're we're

[4:46:18] consuming more. Got

[4:46:20] >> um

[4:46:22] that's makes sense.

[4:46:23] >> U we are going to be a little more

[4:46:26] aggressive in our um short-term

[4:46:30] purchases going forward. So that may

[4:46:32] result in a little bit more sales.

[4:46:34] But um we want to avoid something that

[4:46:38] hap like happened last year.

[4:46:52] What I think

[4:47:03] one light

[4:47:14] 120

[4:47:19] So, couple questions on one.

[4:47:21] >> Okay.

[4:47:24] » Bad debt

[4:47:28] >> dispense $50,000 went from an $8,000 to

[4:47:31] 50,000. Is that

[4:47:34] >> what is that?

[4:47:36] >> At the bottom page is the page. Yes,

[4:47:39] sir.

[4:47:40] >> Probably.

[4:47:42] Um yeah, we were um

[4:47:46] you know, we got new rules from Richmond

[4:47:48] about what we can do in terms of

[4:47:50] termination,

[4:47:51] but yeah, we were looking back to 25 uh

[4:47:54] on that. Um

[4:47:58] I don't know that 25 was an unusual

[4:48:01] year. I don't know why it was so high.

[4:48:03] Do we have a specific write off? here. I

[4:48:05] know why it was because we had several

[4:48:07] years of write offs that were approved

[4:48:08] by council that we finally processed in

[4:48:11] the system and it was it was a lot of

[4:48:14] them all the way back to 2018.

[4:48:16] >> Okay. So, it will probably come in lower

[4:48:18] than that

[4:48:20] >> when we uh experience it, but we I don't

[4:48:23] know if there's any new rules in the

[4:48:25] shut off uh this year coming up.

[4:48:28] >> I think there was something.

[4:48:29] >> I will tell you that they're significant

[4:48:31] because we can't cut off till 45 days.

[4:48:33] We do have much larger balances at the

[4:48:36] point that we're cutting off,

[4:48:37] >> right?

[4:48:39] >> Okay. And that one was wire fees.

[4:48:42] >> Last time we had a wire fee was in 2023.

[4:48:45] Now we got a wire fee of 500,000.

[4:48:48] >> This is where if you decide to absorb

[4:48:50] credit card fees, we put it in there for

[4:48:53] you. We didn't want to create an account

[4:48:54] until we knew for sure what direction

[4:48:56] council wanted to take.

[4:49:00] I'm hoping that you see that and say,

[4:49:02] "Oh my goodness, we don't want to do

[4:49:04] that."

[4:49:06] >> That's my request.

[4:49:09] >> The good news is the price came in at

[4:49:11] half of what we thought, but still,

[4:49:13] that's a lot. 250,000 would be the true

[4:49:16] cost.

[4:49:18] >> That's a new truck for us.

[4:49:19] >> So, so we would So, basically, we would

[4:49:21] be covering the cost of the credit card

[4:49:23] fees for our customers

[4:49:25] >> if you Yes. So, we decided to do that. I

[4:49:27] estimate that if you have 75% of your

[4:49:30] customers take advantage of the rates I

[4:49:32] was given from the merchant processor

[4:49:34] the talent pay around 250,000 a year

[4:49:38] but on the inverse at what we charge our

[4:49:40] customers if we have 30% utilization

[4:49:43] they are paying out of their pockets

[4:49:45] around 332,000 a year

[4:49:50] >> if if it matters to you to compare to

[4:49:52] another community Salem's doing exactly

[4:49:54] the opposite they had been carrying this

[4:49:56] cost they're moving away from it. So

[4:50:00] different utilities manage different

[4:50:01] ways.

[4:50:02] >> Yeah,

[4:50:04] >> it's it's really a philosophical issue.

[4:50:05] It's a convenience, right?

[4:50:08] >> So that all customers pay for that

[4:50:10] convenience or just the customers that

[4:50:11] take advantage of it. That's what it

[4:50:14] comes down to in my mind. I I would like

[4:50:17] to see us and I know Bart and you talked

[4:50:19] about this is have a drive up window

[4:50:22] someplace around here where folks can

[4:50:24] just drive up and that would be I think

[4:50:26] another convenience but a whole lot less

[4:50:28] than this maybe taking a step like that

[4:50:31] would be in the right direction or uh

[4:50:34] Andrew probably considered this but

[4:50:37] having some of the banks take payments

[4:50:40] you know they already have the drive up

[4:50:42] facility there so I would like to see

[4:50:45] something like that before we go this

[4:50:48] route.

[4:50:51] >> Hey John, on the same page, building the

[4:50:54] ground maintenance 60,000 more goes from

[4:50:58] uh 40 to 100,000.

[4:51:01] >> Let's see.

[4:51:02] >> Building grounds maintenance the

[4:51:04] building that you're in or

[4:51:05] >> No, what that is uh right now we're

[4:51:08] seeing underground maintenance. That's a

[4:51:10] lot of the new underground work that

[4:51:12] we're doing for these new new

[4:51:15] developments. Everything is underground.

[4:51:17] It's going in that account. We do get

[4:51:19] reimbursed.

[4:51:21] >> Okay.

[4:51:21] >> A good percentage of that.

[4:51:24] >> I saw that. I thought it

[4:51:28] » we haven't given direction on that.

[4:51:30] >> The payment is I mean

[4:51:32] >> not yet.

[4:51:34] >> Well, that no that is for

[4:51:36] >> um the replacement out by the hospital.

[4:51:39] What we

[4:51:39] >> have to replace the underground system

[4:51:41] there?

[4:51:41] >> When do we need to get direction on that

[4:51:44] or are we going to discuss that?

[4:51:46] >> Oh, they're paying 159.

[4:51:47] >> Okay. But

[4:51:48] >> is the ancillary discussions in

[4:51:51] >> our thought is

[4:51:52] >> I think we can have that discussion

[4:51:54] right now

[4:51:54] >> work out there is what we put in the

[4:51:58] >> 250 as opposed to 500.

[4:52:00] >> So maybe they should be

[4:52:01] >> so we can lower it down to 250 if we

[4:52:03] continue.

[4:52:04] >> Hey, excuse me folks. We

[4:52:05] >> Hey Ann and John, we need you back here.

[4:52:08] They want to talk about the credit card.

[4:52:10] >> Okay. Sorry.

[4:52:11] >> So, so our question is, do you need an

[4:52:15] answer on that or direction?

[4:52:17] >> Yeah, we need to know which contract to

[4:52:19] sign, which way to go.

[4:52:20] >> Okay. All right. Now, explain the

[4:52:23] options again. Option A and B or what you prefer if you have a

[4:52:28] preference.

[4:52:30] >> It's definitely

[4:52:33] >> there's pros and cons. No matter which

[4:52:34] way you go.

[4:52:36] >> Okay.

[4:52:37] One second. I have a sheet that I kind

[4:52:39] of

[4:52:39] >> I committ to pay cash flow not to pay

[4:52:41] the fee.

[4:52:41] >> That's right.

[4:52:46] » You pay the fee, don't you?

[4:52:48] >> I don't have that much cash.

[4:52:57] » Sorry. that

[4:52:59] >> I will tell you that on my calculation

[4:53:02] that if you choose to absorb fees, Visa,

[4:53:06] Mastercard, and Discover will offer you

[4:53:09] a low rate that they don't offer unless

[4:53:12] you choose to absorb it. And so that

[4:53:14] rate is normally around 95 cents a

[4:53:16] swipe. If you choose to pass fees on to

[4:53:19] a customer, it's normally around 1% of

[4:53:21] the transaction charge or 1 to 2% of the

[4:53:25] swipe. So if you start having very large

[4:53:28] electric bills like our largest customer

[4:53:30] where their bill may be $90,000 a month

[4:53:33] and you're now charging $3.95% to them,

[4:53:36] it's a very large fee.

[4:53:38] So there it's pros and cons. So our rate

[4:53:42] today would be 3.95% that the customer

[4:53:45] would have to pay when they come in to

[4:53:48] swipe their card. We don't pay anything.

[4:53:50] they pay that fee, but for them it could

[4:53:53] be thousands of dollars that they're

[4:53:55] paying of fees. Now, conversely, if we

[4:53:57] choose absorb fees, then we would be

[4:54:00] paying half a percent of the charge to

[4:54:03] our merchant processor and we'd be

[4:54:05] paying a 95 cent swipe fee and then we'd

[4:54:09] be paying an assessment fee of around

[4:54:11] 0.0017%

[4:54:14] per month. So, I estimate in total if

[4:54:17] you had 75% of your customers take

[4:54:20] advantage of us paying the credit card

[4:54:23] fees, it would be around 250,000 a year

[4:54:26] that the town would pay out of our

[4:54:28] pockets. Now, if you say, "No, we don't

[4:54:30] want to do that. We want to pass the

[4:54:32] fees on to customers." I did a quick

[4:54:34] estimate where if you had around 30% of

[4:54:37] your customers pay by credit card and

[4:54:39] they pay the 3.95% fee, they're paying

[4:54:42] around $332,000

[4:54:44] out of their pockets

[4:54:46] >> if they do it each month.

[4:54:48] >> Correct.

[4:54:49] >> Because I know a lot of places now

[4:54:51] charge like 3%

[4:54:54] >> for using a credit card.

[4:54:56] >> That's right. I mean, a lot of

[4:54:58] restaurants,

[4:55:00] but but still that's not when you only

[4:55:02] have like 112 bill, it's not a lot, but

[4:55:05] we're talking electric bills,

[4:55:07] >> right?

[4:55:08] >> So, it kind of goes back to my original

[4:55:10] question.

[4:55:12] Okay. But

[4:55:16] if I'm out of state, another state, and

[4:55:19] I realize my electric bill is due, I can

[4:55:22] call you all and say, I want to pay my

[4:55:26] electric bill by credit card, but I'll

[4:55:28] pay 3.9%.

[4:55:30] >> Correct?

[4:55:31] >> Which which at that point in time, as I

[4:55:34] said earlier, that's a lot cheaper than

[4:55:36] a disconnect or reconnect. Yeah. So, I

[4:55:40] would do that. So, can I do that now?

[4:55:43] Right now, we have a $4.95

[4:55:47] charge. So, it doesn't matter how much

[4:55:49] your bill is, it's capped at $4.95.

[4:55:52] However, you can only do a $1,000

[4:55:54] payment transaction. So, if you have a

[4:55:57] $90,000 bill, you're making 90 payments

[4:56:00] on our system.

[4:56:01] >> Kind for weaving

[4:56:02] >> and you're paying $4.95 a piece. Cannot

[4:56:04] confirm more demand.

[4:56:05] >> Yes. Okay. Well, okay. What do you

[4:56:08] think?

[4:56:08] >> Can I just add a little bit about about

[4:56:10] the large customer? The reason why

[4:56:13] they're doing that because they get 2%

[4:56:14] back on their

[4:56:16] >> So it's it's an economic question for

[4:56:18] them. Do they want to get the 2% back or

[4:56:20] they want to pay the fee?

[4:56:21] >> Yeah.

[4:56:22] >> So for us to pick that up, I don't think

[4:56:24] that's legitimate myself.

[4:56:26] >> You know, they can still make that

[4:56:28] decision.

[4:56:30] >> I mean, I I'm just voicing my thoughts.

[4:56:34] I would pay that, but but I'm not going

[4:56:36] to do it every month. So, in a situation

[4:56:40] where, as I just described, I would do

[4:56:42] that for one month, but normally I'm

[4:56:44] kind of like Con, I'm going to pay mine

[4:56:46] each month by by check or he he's got

[4:56:49] the cash, put the

[4:56:51] >> I just go get it, pay.

[4:56:54] >> There are pros and cons. I think if you

[4:56:56] absorb fees, more people are willing to

[4:56:58] pay it by credit card, and you probably

[4:57:00] get our collections faster. There's

[4:57:02] probably reduces the amount of

[4:57:03] disconnects because you have more people

[4:57:05] willing to put it on credit. There are

[4:57:07] some pros to collections on credit

[4:57:09] cards, but like John said, that's a

[4:57:12] significant amount of money that you're

[4:57:13] paying at fees. So, you have to weigh

[4:57:15] the two

[4:57:16] >> and which way you want to go.

[4:57:18] >> So, the current system's going away

[4:57:20] then.

[4:57:21] >> Yeah. We're not going to be able to keep

[4:57:22] the 495. Yeah.

[4:57:25] >> It's been great for a while.

[4:57:26] >> I know.

[4:57:27] >> Okay. Absolutely.

[4:57:28] >> I've been in the the credit card market

[4:57:31] and just looking at the different

[4:57:33] benefits and stuff that, you know,

[4:57:34] certain companies have and there's a lot

[4:57:37] of them out there that will give you

[4:57:39] rewards or cash back kind of thing, you

[4:57:42] know, for for and and utilities is a is a recognized, you know, payment

[4:57:47] kind of thing.

[4:57:48] um you know

[4:57:52] so yeah it's you know our our large

[4:57:54] customer he's going to be getting

[4:57:57] >> yeah he's paid from us and then paid

[4:57:59] from somebody else

[4:58:00] >> there there's reasons for it to happen

[4:58:03] >> I mean this would be more work for you

[4:58:04] guys I know but I mean is there would

[4:58:07] there be a way that the town absorbs it

[4:58:10] but then we pass 2% or whatever on to

[4:58:13] >> they won't allow us to do that the

[4:58:16] credit card companies rule on It is you

[4:58:18] only get this disc discounted swipe rate

[4:58:21] if you decide to absorb the if you pass

[4:58:24] anything on to your customer then you

[4:58:26] get the full rate.

[4:58:28] >> Well, we would indirectly pass it along

[4:58:30] because this is socializing the cost. So

[4:58:32] everybody would pay it through rates. So

[4:58:35] somehow we do a rate study. This will be

[4:58:37] figured into the rate study and then

[4:58:39] everybody even though you don't use it,

[4:58:41] you're going to be paying for it.

[4:58:43] >> Yeah, I'll pay it but you got you guys will get the benefit.

[4:58:50] That's true. But you can't get that rate

[4:58:52] unless you choose to absorb it. So, it's

[4:58:54] one of those all or nothing decisions.

[4:58:57] >> I just think it's a lot of money.

[4:58:59] >> I'm thinking the same thing. Plus, we

[4:59:00] don't really know how many would do

[4:59:02] that, do we? I mean,

[4:59:04] >> yeah. This is based on assuming 75%

[4:59:07] usage. So, if you only had 50% and that

[4:59:11] drops significantly, the cost would only

[4:59:13] be like 50.

[4:59:14] >> You're still paying money. the town is.

[4:59:17] >> Yeah.

[4:59:18] I sw

[4:59:21] >> the other thing as Bart pointed out,

[4:59:23] Salem, who we often compare ourselves

[4:59:25] to, is is currently absorbing the fees,

[4:59:28] but in their next budget there, they

[4:59:30] won't be because it just got to be too

[4:59:32] big of a number.

[4:59:33] >> Yeah.

[4:59:35] >> So, I I'm advocating that we don't go

[4:59:38] down that road.

[4:59:42] >> I'm thinking

[4:59:43] >> I'm okay either way. I will say it would

[4:59:45] make collections a lot easier. It's

[4:59:47] going to be very difficult to convince

[4:59:49] people to pay with a 3.95% fee and we

[4:59:51] will get a lot of complaints from our

[4:59:53] customers on paying the fee, but we're

[4:59:55] happy to do whatever we need to do.

[5:00:01] » Well, I mean, it's it's up to the I

[5:00:04] think it ends up being up to the

[5:00:05] individual they want to pay by credit

[5:00:07] card or not. So,

[5:00:08] >> what's the fee for the AC

[5:00:12] thing? If you do it through our online

[5:00:14] platform, it'll be a $1.50 per e check.

[5:00:17] And if you do it through us, there's no

[5:00:18] charge.

[5:00:22] » So there's

[5:00:23] >> So you could do a check right through.

[5:00:26] No charge right through.

[5:00:27] >> That's right. Now, is there fees

[5:00:30] associated with that that we pay? Yes,

[5:00:32] absolutely. But right now, we're eating

[5:00:35] those fees

[5:00:37] >> in addition to what we'd be doing if we

[5:00:40] opt for the 500. Correct. But we are

[5:00:43] eating those today. It's just included

[5:00:44] in our banking fees that we have

[5:00:47] compens. It's very complicated, but

[5:00:49] essentially we have a compensated

[5:00:51] balance that we maintain with our bank

[5:00:53] and we earn interest on that balance.

[5:00:55] And then we get charges for each check

[5:00:57] that we write, everything that the AC

[5:00:59] that we process and if we have enough

[5:01:02] money in our checking account, we don't

[5:01:03] get a fee for those things. So we have

[5:01:05] to balance that every month to make sure

[5:01:07] we have enough money in the thing to not

[5:01:09] get charged a fee for services. So yes,

[5:01:11] we do get charged for the AC program

[5:01:13] that we do from our bank, but we keep

[5:01:16] enough cash on hand to not take it.

[5:01:18] >> Yeah, but the customer doesn't have to

[5:01:20] pay anything for

[5:01:23] >> but as a town we do,

[5:01:25] >> right?

[5:01:25] >> We have a cost.

[5:01:27] >> Um,

[5:01:28] I'd kind of like to go with the 250 and

[5:01:33] just use that maybe something that the

[5:01:35] town can promote. You know, yeah, we

[5:01:37] have these fees associated. However, you

[5:01:41] can avoid those if you use the town of

[5:01:44] Beverage platform for for payment

[5:01:47] and that'll keep your your balances up

[5:01:49] and

[5:01:54] but on the flip side of that,

[5:01:58] you're saying pass the 3.9%

[5:02:01] to the customer and then

[5:02:05] what do we pay then? Anything?

[5:02:07] >> We don't pay anything, but I'm

[5:02:09] estimating that our customers are paying

[5:02:11] out of their pocket around 344,000 or

[5:02:14] that's what they will pay. If we had 30%

[5:02:17] usage,

[5:02:21] » that's all total customer.

[5:02:22] >> That's 75% if they do that.

[5:02:24] >> That's only 30. I'm only assuming if we

[5:02:26] pass the fee on only 30% of our

[5:02:28] customers will likely use the service.

[5:02:31] So they will pay collectively 344,000

[5:02:35] in fees

[5:02:36] >> if they do it each month.

[5:02:41] So we're subsidizing if I wanted to do

[5:02:43] that's that's

[5:02:45] >> so the other way we're subsidizing them

[5:02:47] using the credit card.

[5:02:49] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[5:02:49] >> Right.

[5:02:50] >> Or we're paying for them.

[5:02:52] >> Yeah.

[5:02:52] >> Yes. You would be paying around $224,000

[5:02:56] for 75% of your customers to use their

[5:02:59] card versus assigning the fees out. It

[5:03:03] would be 30% usage and they would pay

[5:03:05] around 344,000 out of their pocket.

[5:03:08] And then the question is, is it worth

[5:03:12] $250,000

[5:03:13] for that convenience of us collecting

[5:03:15] more

[5:03:16] >> for 30%.

[5:03:17] >> Collecting? Yeah. Can we're collecting

[5:03:19] Well, 35 40% I would say. You said 30%

[5:03:22] pay with credit card. If we don't do it,

[5:03:25] if we do it, you're you're estimating

[5:03:27] could be up to 75%. So, we're paying

[5:03:30] we're we're paying um $250,000 for 40%

[5:03:34] of the customer to use the system.

[5:03:37] >> Yeah.

[5:03:41] No, keep it keep

[5:03:42] >> So 60% of the customers are paying for

[5:03:44] that 40%.

[5:03:45] >> Yes, that that's it.

[5:03:46] >> So I'm like what we talked about just

[5:03:50] >> well the assumption on 75% is 75% of

[5:03:54] your customers would be using the credit

[5:03:57] card and that's where the 224 comes

[5:03:59] from.

[5:04:00] >> Yeah. And that's but if they don't then

[5:04:02] it' be 30% using a credit card. That's

[5:04:04] where I'm coming up with that percentage

[5:04:06] of about 40%. So we're paying Yeah. 60%

[5:04:10] of the customers are paying for 40% to

[5:04:12] use it.

[5:04:13] >> Well, I will say if 40 So if usage goes

[5:04:16] down, the fee goes down.

[5:04:18] >> Yeah.

[5:04:19] >> If you only have if you if I estimate

[5:04:21] 75, that's kind of a very high usage

[5:04:24] percentage. It's probably going to be

[5:04:26] less. So your fees drop. It's a periph.

[5:04:32] that it's likely if you had like if I

[5:04:35] changed the number to 50% you would see

[5:04:37] that go down significantly.

[5:04:43] » So which which system is advantageous to

[5:04:48] the

[5:04:50] >> depends on your end goal

[5:04:52] >> depends on if you want to collect more

[5:04:55] or if you want to not have the funds in

[5:04:58] the bank.

[5:04:58] >> Yes.

[5:05:00] >> Yeah. Well, keep in mind that we're

[5:05:02] collecting 99% of our

[5:05:05] >> revenue anyway. We have very low

[5:05:07] uncollectibles. So, it's not going to

[5:05:10] benefit us there. It's strictly a

[5:05:12] convenience.

[5:05:13] >> So, I would suggest the first thing we

[5:05:15] do is give them a drive up window where

[5:05:17] they can pay. That's more convenient.

[5:05:19] Drive up, bang, you're gone. And then,

[5:05:22] >> but there is costs associated with that.

[5:05:24] Like, you need to remodel or you'd have

[5:05:27] to pay the banks a collection fee.

[5:05:29] >> Okay. Well, let's look at that. Let's

[5:05:31] see what it is. But I think a drive up

[5:05:33] window someplace, some arrangement

[5:05:36] for convenience makes sense. I mean, you

[5:05:39] can pay your AppCo bill where at CVS or

[5:05:42] I know Southside you can pay at CVS. So,

[5:05:45] I don't know what Appco does.

[5:05:46] >> No, just to me it's economics. I mean,

[5:05:49] you you end up I mean, we throughout

[5:05:52] this whole meeting, we've been talking

[5:05:54] about uh hemorrhaging money, and now

[5:05:58] we're going to make a decision to

[5:05:59] hemorrhage more money.

[5:06:00] >> That's right. That's right. That's

[5:06:02] right.

[5:06:04] >> If that said, the best option is

[5:06:08] >> cut.

[5:06:11] >> Yeah. Couldn't have,

[5:06:17] » right?

[5:06:17] >> Yeah.

[5:06:20] Well, you just never get the complaints.

[5:06:22] >> But yes, we're not. Our largest customer

[5:06:24] is going to be very, very unhappy

[5:06:27] >> other than that.

[5:06:29] >> And how many of those do we have? M

[5:06:32] mainly one. So, and we don't need to go

[5:06:34] there.

[5:06:36] >> But but is that I mean with that if I

[5:06:40] want to use my credit card, it I'm

[5:06:43] paying it. That's my decision.

[5:06:46] >> Yeah. And like let's say a bill like an

[5:06:49] average bill or it could be in the

[5:06:51] winter. Let's say you have a $330 bill

[5:06:54] >> and you have to pay convenience fee of

[5:06:56] 3.95% you'd be paying $13 convenience

[5:06:59] fee.

[5:07:01] >> I think uh I know Appalachin or yeah

[5:07:04] Appalachin's been doing it for years

[5:07:06] because I know in my son's early days of

[5:07:08] marriage I paid his bill a couple times

[5:07:10] online and I think they charged like

[5:07:13] five or 7%. it was a lot more. Uh so

[5:07:18] yeah, but

[5:07:21] they're they're there and we're here.

[5:07:23] But but yeah, I think something like

[5:07:25] that is more up to the individual. If

[5:07:28] you want to use a credit card for that,

[5:07:29] then so be it. But we should not have to

[5:07:33] encumber any of the expenses or I mean,

[5:07:37] y'all speak up here.

[5:07:41] » What What are you saying?

[5:07:43] >> You You're over there. You you're

[5:07:49] » if you want to pay by credit card,

[5:07:50] that's your decision.

[5:07:51] >> That's that's what I'm saying.

[5:07:52] >> I pay cash. A lot of times when I go on

[5:07:55] vacation, I will pay cash.

[5:07:57] >> Well, that's because I don't want to pay

[5:07:59] that fee.

[5:07:59] >> Well, I'm saying you're a man of that

[5:08:01] means I have to use

[5:08:07] later.

[5:08:08] >> And if the m if the matter is the

[5:08:10] drive-through box idea, we're going to

[5:08:12] do it. just takes changing the oneway

[5:08:15] traffic going that way to that way so

[5:08:17] it's on the driver's side.

[5:08:18] >> So

[5:08:19] >> we'll do that eventually whether it's in

[5:08:21] conjunction with the renovations or we

[5:08:22] go ahead and do it just

[5:08:25] >> switch some parking and put and switch

[5:08:26] the oneway signs. But

[5:08:28] >> yeah

[5:08:29] talking about

[5:08:30] >> well not necessarily. It could just be

[5:08:33] like a a mailbox and just drop it in a

[5:08:35] box.

[5:08:35] >> Mainly people just don't want to get out

[5:08:36] of the car.

[5:08:37] >> That's right.

[5:08:37] >> Yeah.

[5:08:38] >> You don't have a car.

[5:08:38] >> It's easily done but it's a little

[5:08:40] complicated. That's all. Does that give

[5:08:41] you direction?

[5:08:42] >> Yes.

[5:08:43] >> Are we okay with that?

[5:08:46] >> 250.

[5:08:47] >> So, they will have a 3.95%

[5:08:50] fee and a $2.50 minimum

[5:08:54] >> and there won't be any there won't be

[5:08:56] any cost.

[5:08:56] >> No cost to the town.

[5:08:57] >> Good. So, it's

[5:08:59] >> cut completely

[5:09:02] >> good. Yeah. Okay. All right. Where are

[5:09:05] we? 13.

[5:09:08] 121.

[5:09:15] 122

[5:09:24] » one.

[5:09:26] Don't stop me if I'm going too fast.

[5:09:29] 123 24

[5:09:30] >> one clarification. The $500,000 that was

[5:09:34] budgeted. Where would council like to

[5:09:36] move that?

[5:09:39] You you could use that to offset some of

[5:09:41] the

[5:09:43] undercolction for

[5:09:46] the um PCA.

[5:09:48] >> I like that idea.

[5:09:50] >> Is that the benefits of the customers?

[5:09:52] >> We could use that to offset some of the

[5:09:54] underolction from the PCA.

[5:09:56] >> Oh, okay.

[5:09:58] >> So, wait. So, you're wanting us to

[5:10:00] subsidize the cost of the PCA. Again,

[5:10:03] >> I'm wanting you to generously offset

[5:10:06] some of the cost for your customers.

[5:10:10] Yes to both.

[5:10:12] >> So we're back to the same. Yeah.

[5:10:14] >> Well, I mean I think the five like you

[5:10:16] mentioned earlier that and something

[5:10:19] that we were maybe saving turn 50. You

[5:10:21] said that was a truck. Well 500,000 is

[5:10:23] two trucks. So

[5:10:24] >> true.

[5:10:24] >> That's what I'd rather it go to than

[5:10:27] >> true. Y.

[5:10:30] >> So do

[5:10:30] >> that's me. I mean that's just one voice.

[5:10:35] How much will we need for that?

[5:10:38] >> The PCA under recovery un the way it's

[5:10:40] calculated was $1.9 million.

[5:10:43] >> But that could also or bring it down.

[5:10:46] >> Correct.

[5:10:46] Considerably.

[5:10:48] >> Correct. And recall I think under the

[5:10:51] last five or six PCAs, the council

[5:10:54] decided to share the cost uh with

[5:10:58] customers and to the tune of about 50%.

[5:11:02] But that's why we kept dropping in our

[5:11:04] that's why we're where we are at 91

[5:11:07] days.

[5:11:09] >> Yeah,

[5:11:10] >> that's true. Yeah.

[5:11:11] >> Yeah.

[5:11:12] I agree.

[5:11:13] >> Yeah. No, you're you're right. Yeah.

[5:11:16] >> Y'all comfortable with that?

[5:11:18] >> We're just

[5:11:20] remaking

[5:11:21] >> Yeah.

[5:11:21] >> decisions that has come back and bite

[5:11:23] us.

[5:11:24] >> Exactly.

[5:11:24] >> Well,

[5:11:26] and that's why I Well, we'll go back to

[5:11:28] the thing again. Is it is it worth

[5:11:30] keeping the electric department if we're

[5:11:33] having to fund $500,000$100

[5:11:35] million every 6 months to cover it?

[5:11:41] >> Well, again, we're we're anticipating in

[5:11:44] the future that we can get that under

[5:11:47] control better. Remember, it was one

[5:11:48] event. It was the polar vortex that

[5:11:51] happened. Otherwise, we would be in much

[5:11:53] better shape. So, uh, in the future,

[5:11:56] we'll we'll be more aggressive with, uh,

[5:11:59] hedging so that we don't have that issue

[5:12:02] as much. We can't we're not going to be

[5:12:04] 100%. We don't have a crystal ball. So,

[5:12:07] um, I I don't have any issue with trying

[5:12:10] to advertise that cost over a longer

[5:12:12] period of time or offsetting some of it

[5:12:15] with capital reserve or reserves, I

[5:12:18] should say.

[5:12:19] >> I'm okay with that.

[5:12:22] >> J, you okay with that? I'm thinking

[5:12:25] >> I just I just see it I I still see it as

[5:12:28] us I still see it as as as paying

[5:12:30] >> kicking down the road

[5:12:32] >> kicking it down the road again.

[5:12:33] >> We're we're going we're reverting

[5:12:35] instead of

[5:12:36] >> I know. But I but I see us kicking this

[5:12:38] bee down the road again.

[5:12:39] >> Yeah.

[5:12:40] >> And going back to what we've been doing

[5:12:41] over the past years got us into the

[5:12:43] position we're in. Well, if if the rates

[5:12:47] would ever stabilize to any degree,

[5:12:49] which we've done, it's kind of like

[5:12:51] well,

[5:12:52] >> it's unpredictable

[5:12:53] >> and it doesn't look like it's going to

[5:12:54] stabilize. It looks like it's cost is

[5:12:57] going to keep going up right now with

[5:12:58] some of the things that I've seen done

[5:13:00] by the state and the governor.

[5:13:02] >> Yep. We're going to have more discussion

[5:13:04] on this in the next council meeting. So,

[5:13:08] you know, we'll take all this into

[5:13:10] consideration and we'll revisit it and

[5:13:12] see where you guys want to go. You don't

[5:13:13] have to make that decision.

[5:13:14] >> Yeah, I was going to say we don't have

[5:13:15] to decide.

[5:13:15] >> Well, we have to for the budget, though.

[5:13:17] >> I need to know where to put the

[5:13:18] >> You need to know where to put the money.

[5:13:21] >> Well, if you don't do anything, it would

[5:13:22] just lapse into

[5:13:25] >> decide where it goes later.

[5:13:26] >> It would, but it goes into supervision

[5:13:28] and engineering and so they may want to

[5:13:30] move it into contingency. It's not.

[5:13:32] >> Yeah. Yeah. We could put it somewhere

[5:13:33] that we could pull it out.

[5:13:35] >> Yeah. Yeah. No. Well, I think Ann was

[5:13:38] saying if if you need to decide if you

[5:13:40] want to leave it here or put it into

[5:13:42] contingency.

[5:13:43] It doesn't change the amount of the of

[5:13:45] the u of the budget, but it's just her

[5:13:48] classification of where

[5:13:50] >> that's we would want somewhere where we

[5:13:52] can go out and do that if necessary. So

[5:13:56] contingency I think is what

[5:14:00] >> you put it on the council

[5:14:05] decide right we go to bill

[5:14:09] >> yeah

[5:14:10] okay what's next we're at 124 where you

[5:14:13] at

[5:14:15] 124 124 couple questions all right

[5:14:20] contract cleaning $25,000

[5:14:24] small equipment tools 17,000. It won't

[5:14:26] none in 26 by 2027. Is that just

[5:14:29] standard stuff that you need to continue

[5:14:32] what you're doing on the rightway crew?

[5:14:34] >> Yeah, the contract clearing, you know, a

[5:14:36] few years ago we had a large amount in

[5:14:38] there. This is for like spraying uh and

[5:14:42] uh the supplemental uh work that we do

[5:14:45] uh or specialized clearing along some of

[5:14:48] the transmission lines. We don't have

[5:14:50] the equipment to reach high enough to do

[5:14:52] some of the clearing. So, this is

[5:14:54] supplemental to what we do. Um, and it's

[5:14:57] just an ef an effort to keep some of the

[5:14:59] lines more clear than what they are. Um,

[5:15:03] yeah.

[5:15:06] >> And then the small equipment and tools.

[5:15:09] Yeah, we we go through a lot of chains,

[5:15:12] chainsaws, all that kind of stuff. So,

[5:15:15] that's what that's for. Uh, this is the

[5:15:18] excuse me, the rideway crew. And uh as

[5:15:22] you noticed last year we had nothing in

[5:15:24] there. So they really wore down what

[5:15:26] they had last year because we had to

[5:15:28] stretch.

[5:15:33] And last one is u payment in lie of tax

[5:15:37] 559,181.

[5:15:40] What is that?

[5:15:40] >> It's going to the general fund. And so

[5:15:42] if this was a private entity that's the

[5:15:45] amount of taxes we calculated they would

[5:15:47] pay.

[5:15:49] That's if they were

[5:15:51] >> right. So if this was a entity that

[5:15:53] wasn't a government tax exempt, they

[5:15:55] would

[5:15:56] >> Yeah. Like if it was one of the other

[5:15:57] power companies, that's what they would

[5:15:59] pay out.

[5:16:00] >> They have personal property, real

[5:16:02] estate.

[5:16:02] >> Goes back to what you

[5:16:04] >> Yeah. At the beginning of the meeting we

[5:16:05] talked about. Yeah.

[5:16:08] >> Make it makes it cleaner than just see

[5:16:10] it transition.

[5:16:11] >> Yeah.

[5:16:13] >> Then explains it better

[5:16:15] >> and and it limits to that certain

[5:16:17] amount.

[5:16:20] and it's principle. This was something

[5:16:22] that Darren showed

[5:16:24] his horse on and yelled about every

[5:16:26] single year on council was what is the

[5:16:29] transfer? Well, we sat down and figured

[5:16:32] out this is really what we need to be

[5:16:39] » before we get out of electric. The

[5:16:41] question that I had for you two at the

[5:16:43] end of one of the breaks as far as the interest off of the A lease,

[5:16:49] >> is that going to have an impact on this

[5:16:51] budget or the next budget cycle?

[5:16:54] >> I think it's this budget cycle.

[5:16:56] >> Okay.

[5:16:58] >> I think it needs to be removed from this

[5:17:00] budget cycle. We could net it against

[5:17:02] the 500,000 in contingency.

[5:17:04] >> Okay. Okay, cuz I was how's that going

[5:17:06] to impact John's budget then if that

[5:17:09] >> decrease of 232,000? What council member

[5:17:12] update is referring to is we were

[5:17:14] receiving interest from a lease that we

[5:17:16] had a lease purchase on a substation

[5:17:20] that we financed through debt and that

[5:17:22] ends this year. So they will not own

[5:17:23] that substation no longer lease from us.

[5:17:26] So we will not get interest earnings off

[5:17:28] of that anymore.

[5:17:30] >> Is a still supplying that customer? Mhm.

[5:17:34] >> It's the um paper

[5:17:35] >> paper mill.

[5:17:37] Yeah.

[5:17:39] But wouldn't our debt expense Well, it's

[5:17:42] going away.

[5:17:43] >> It is. Yeah, it has. So, you'll see

[5:17:44] there's no debt in this budget.

[5:17:49] » Which is a weird thing to say.

[5:17:53] >> I've been working for 11 years to get us

[5:17:55] to this point. Even if it's only for one

[5:17:57] year, I'm going to consider it a

[5:17:59] success.

[5:18:04] I don't think I've ever had a budget

[5:18:05] fund with no debt. It's rather

[5:18:15] » All right,

[5:18:17] take land.

[5:18:20] Where are we?

[5:18:25] 126. Okay.

[5:18:31] question 122.

[5:18:34] I had my question answered earlier.

[5:18:43] 128 component units.

[5:18:49] All right. 128

[5:18:51] economic development authority EDA.

[5:18:56] We know how that works.

[5:18:59] Any questions? Just a note on the EDA

[5:19:02] and the housing authority, those boards

[5:19:04] do adopt their budget separately. So, we

[5:19:06] display it in here just as a FYI, but we

[5:19:10] do have to take it to those boards for

[5:19:11] adoption.

[5:19:15] » 129.

[5:19:22] » Anybody good?

[5:19:25] 30

[5:19:28] development and housing authority.

[5:19:32] » Everybody authority should get paid.

[5:19:37] » You want to make a motion?

[5:19:38] >> Are you recommending a tax increases? Is

[5:19:40] that what you say? What? Wait, we got

[5:19:44] 500,000.

[5:19:46] >> Exactly. Perfect.

[5:19:50] >> I'm kidding.

[5:19:58] No uh 131.

[5:20:06] » Okay. No questions.

[5:20:08] >> We finally at 132.

[5:20:10] >> 132 3 hours ago.

[5:20:12] >> And fees. He will fasttrack it earlier,

[5:20:15] but uh these delays

[5:20:20] taxes and fees

[5:20:25] 133.

[5:20:28] What do y'all have to say about this?

[5:20:30] Everybody okay with that? Yeah, I'd had

[5:20:33] a a note here about the same thing that

[5:20:35] council form brought up at the

[5:20:36] beginning, but um

[5:20:39] town's real estate tax and how it

[5:20:42] relates to the others. But uh um I think

[5:20:46] if you look at all the taxes, the

[5:20:48] totality of all the taxes, we're

[5:20:52] I don't know that we're we're cheaper

[5:20:54] than everybody else around, but uh we're we're ballpark, I think. So,

[5:21:00] I'm good.

[5:21:01] I would say we're comfortable.

[5:21:04] I think we're pretty close.

[5:21:07] >> I do have one question. I mentioned

[5:21:10] something to the town manager a while

[5:21:12] back about the muring tool talked

[5:21:18] about, you know, maybe looking at going

[5:21:20] up on that any or anything like that. We

[5:21:22] just brought that into the equation two

[5:21:25] years ago.

[5:21:26] >> No, that's always been a tax. When we

[5:21:27] reverted, we set it at a rate that's

[5:21:30] practically nothing

[5:21:31] >> because

[5:21:33] we get beaten up a lot for people

[5:21:35] getting double taxed.

[5:21:37] >> We pay town taxes for town services,

[5:21:40] county taxes for county services.

[5:21:42] Unfortunately, many cases were limited

[5:21:44] to the same sources of revenue. So, we

[5:21:47] set the machinery and tools tax at

[5:21:49] effectively zero, but we didn't get rid

[5:21:51] of it.

[5:21:53] mainly because we didn't want to

[5:21:55] completely give it up if we ever found

[5:21:57] ourselves in need of a revenue source.

[5:22:05] » Okay.

[5:22:05] >> And my colleagues ask me about that all

[5:22:07] the time. Why is it one millionth of a

[5:22:08] cent? That's why. Well, when we're

[5:22:11] looking to make up a4 million dollars, I

[5:22:13] mean,

[5:22:15] this this may be the time to

[5:22:18] >> to Councilman Haley's point, it's

[5:22:22] >> there if you want to talk about it.

[5:22:25] >> I just think we need to just talk about

[5:22:27] it. I don't mean we got it.

[5:22:29] >> Well, I mean, I think it's it's an

[5:22:31] important I mean, I've been, you know,

[5:22:33] y'all know I've been kind this drunk a

[5:22:36] little bit in that

[5:22:40] Where's the money coming from? Make up

[5:22:42] for the shortfalls we're going to start

[5:22:45] having.

[5:22:47] I mean, staff has done, I think, a great

[5:22:49] job trying to uh,

[5:22:53] you know, be more efficient, more lean.

[5:22:55] Uh, but it's at some point you've got to

[5:22:58] start looking where it's about revenue.

[5:23:00] If we stay static, then I mean,

[5:23:04] just be honest, Dan. We're going to be

[5:23:07] Yeah, we won't be losing. continue to

[5:23:08] lose money. And so is that different?

[5:23:11] >> We have a We know what one cent gets us.

[5:23:13] >> I just pulled it up. Yeah. One penny is

[5:23:15] $4,116.

[5:23:19] » That's how much a penny of machinery

[5:23:21] tools would be.

[5:23:23] >> Business furniture and fixture. I would

[5:23:26] say it would be about 2,000 for that.

[5:23:29] There's,

[5:23:31] as I was looking there, there's one that

[5:23:33] we there's a licensing fee if you go all

[5:23:36] the way back that everybody else charges

[5:23:39] on vehicles.

[5:23:40] >> Vehicle license

[5:23:41] >> decal.

[5:23:42] >> Yeah, decal fee. I mean, that's one that

[5:23:44] we don't that everybody else charges

[5:23:45] that we don't.

[5:23:47] >> And that would be a way to have some

[5:23:49] income if you're looking at that. And

[5:23:52] that would be um I think a fair way to

[5:23:56] do it where it would be it would cover

[5:23:58] everybody in the town that owns a

[5:24:00] vehicle, but it would also um cover the

[5:24:04] cost without charging extra fees on the

[5:24:07] personal property tax because the the

[5:24:10] state already covers that. We then again

[5:24:12] that's a double tax where you're paying

[5:24:13] personal property tax and the town. This

[5:24:16] fee will be an individual tax for those

[5:24:19] living in the town and it's not a double

[5:24:21] tax. I mean the machine machinery tools

[5:24:24] again is a double tax because you're

[5:24:26] paying it to they're paying it to the

[5:24:28] county all already. Um but we've got

[5:24:30] many others that are double taxing

[5:24:32] people

[5:24:34] >> as is an individual tax because we don't

[5:24:36] pay the county doesn't charge that

[5:24:38] because they can't. Right.

[5:24:39] >> Right.

[5:24:39] >> No, the county could.

[5:24:40] >> They could but they don't. Okay. So

[5:24:43] that's that's an individual tax we do.

[5:24:45] But machinery tools they already charge

[5:24:47] at

[5:24:49] >> and we would be charging the same one.

[5:24:50] But I was looking for things that maybe

[5:24:52] we weren't double getting the same

[5:24:55] person paying twice on there. Does the

[5:24:57] county charge a decay fee?

[5:25:00] >> No. Either one of us do.

[5:25:02] >> Cuz if the county does and then the town

[5:25:05] started, then it would just flip it from

[5:25:08] the county to the town. So it be neutral

[5:25:10] for everybody. But because the catchy

[5:25:12] doesn't then it'll be it'll be a new one

[5:25:14] just for the town res.

[5:25:15] >> Yeah. As of our last assessment we had

[5:25:18] 9,364

[5:25:20] vehicles. So if I say that 90% of those

[5:25:23] are BLF eligible that's 168,000

[5:25:28] a $20 vehicle license fee.

[5:25:32] >> I mean if you wanted to bring extra tax

[5:25:34] in that's the way to do it. I mean it's

[5:25:36] but there are other things like um Jay

[5:25:39] was just mentioning um that we don't

[5:25:42] have anybody issuing parking tickets

[5:25:44] right now. So we raise the fines but

[5:25:48] there's parkings everywhere and there's

[5:25:50] no one doing it. There's ways to do it

[5:25:52] without hiring somebody to do it all the

[5:25:54] time like they do in other cities where

[5:25:56] they put QR codes where you where you

[5:25:58] pay your fee to park. You scan it and

[5:26:01] pay your fee to park in that spot then

[5:26:03] you park there.

[5:26:04] Um, so there's ways to do that also. Um,

[5:26:08] it would go away from free parking and

[5:26:11] to a paid parking system, but there's all kinds of ways that we could

[5:26:15] generate funds for the town. Um, whether

[5:26:19] people would like it or not is going to

[5:26:20] be the question. And that's what we

[5:26:21] talked about change earlier. Um, you

[5:26:24] know, because I say the police

[5:26:26] department, police officers don't like

[5:26:28] change, but they don't like the way

[5:26:29] things are. People downtown don't like

[5:26:31] the way things are with parking, but

[5:26:33] they're not going to like change either.

[5:26:35] So, it's it's all about how we handle it

[5:26:37] and how we get it out there to the

[5:26:39] people and get their opinions on it.

[5:26:41] Some people want parking to be paid

[5:26:43] because they want the spots to open in

[5:26:45] front of their business so they can have

[5:26:47] the customers there and then others

[5:26:48] don't because they don't, you know, they

[5:26:50] want to be able to park free and they

[5:26:52] think it'll work better for their

[5:26:53] customers.

[5:26:54] >> I I would say the paid parking is thing

[5:26:57] something of the future to look at.

[5:26:58] >> Yes. I think we definitely need to look

[5:27:00] Yeah. whatever way we can to for that u

[5:27:05] downtown behind the county administrator

[5:27:07] building anywhere that people are

[5:27:09] parking and so forth. That's probably

[5:27:13] see it should some way to go like

[5:27:15] >> and and then have some free parking like

[5:27:17] down in different areas in town where

[5:27:19] people would have to walk.

[5:27:20] >> Um

[5:27:21] >> Oh, yeah.

[5:27:23] >> Yeah. Well, in process of doing that

[5:27:25] too, we're going to have to correct some

[5:27:26] of the signage downtown. A lot of the

[5:27:29] signage is

[5:27:30] >> well paid would be you know what I mean.

[5:27:33] But right now there's six signs in town.

[5:27:35] There's six parking spaces and that has

[5:27:38] a sign that says 2 hours and 30 minutes

[5:27:41] in the same parking space on the same

[5:27:43] pole.

[5:27:45] >> So is it two hours or is it 30 minutes?

[5:27:50] You have a loading zone and you have one

[5:27:52] says two hours apart and same fault too.

[5:27:54] Whatever. So,

[5:27:55] >> but it's like you said when you put if

[5:27:57] you are

[5:27:58] >> if you if you have paid parking then

[5:28:00] take care of

[5:28:01] >> but you know it's like when the cop came

[5:28:04] around on Monday issuing parking tickets

[5:28:07] and well when he the office

[5:28:13] I can't think of his name now when he

[5:28:15] come around anyway officer came around

[5:28:16] passed out papers in the town but

[5:28:19] warning everybody that it was going to

[5:28:21] start and then the following week

[5:28:23] another officer come and started passing

[5:28:25] out tickets. He wrote a lot of tickets

[5:28:28] that day because I know he got six t he

[5:28:30] wrote six tickets just on our one block

[5:28:33] at in his first venture through our

[5:28:36] street. And then

[5:28:40] on Tuesday, it was really nice cuz

[5:28:42] everybody's like, "What happened?

[5:28:44] Where's so nice we can pull up here and

[5:28:46] park?" because there was only two cars

[5:28:48] on the street, but that was because

[5:28:51] everybody had got warn and everybody had

[5:28:52] got tickets. So, they didn't even have

[5:28:54] to park the car on the street.

[5:28:55] >> So, it made a huge difference. But then,

[5:28:59] you know, as it slowed down and the cops

[5:29:01] got dizzy and they didn't have time to

[5:29:02] set and walk the streets, then they

[5:29:06] slowly came back again. And I mean, I've

[5:29:08] got pictures on the phone where there's

[5:29:10] a car parked with her whole rear her

[5:29:13] rear tires actually on the corner of

[5:29:15] Depot Street with her whole rear end

[5:29:17] sticking out.

[5:29:19] There's I've taken pictures of cars and

[5:29:21] it's been sitting there from 10:00 in

[5:29:22] the morning to 3:00 in the evening when

[5:29:25] I leave.

[5:29:27] They don't have a ticket.

[5:29:30] And

[5:29:31] >> so I guess I'm I'm thinking

[5:29:34] that's probably twofold. If we did go

[5:29:37] with paid parking, you're still going to

[5:29:40] need someone to monitor it and get

[5:29:42] tickets.

[5:29:43] >> So, so we're going to need Bart, I would

[5:29:46] say, you know, we've talked about this

[5:29:48] the pay parking and and a way to do it,

[5:29:51] but we still would need

[5:29:54] a traffic person, somebody. Yeah,

[5:29:57] >> it's still challenge for the police

[5:29:59] officers right now without paid parking

[5:30:01] >> because there's there's rules that have

[5:30:03] come out about the way you mark cars and

[5:30:06] >> do that

[5:30:07] >> to where it makes it more difficult for

[5:30:08] a police officer. You used to be able to

[5:30:10] when Daryl and I did it, you could mark

[5:30:12] the tire

[5:30:13] >> with a piece of chalk. You can mark the

[5:30:15] tread. You can't do that anymore. It's

[5:30:18] not allowed.

[5:30:20] >> So, that's so that's where there's a

[5:30:22] challenge and that's why the paid

[5:30:23] parking will be a an option of

[5:30:27] where it would be easier to track.

[5:30:30] >> But on that standpoint too, most people

[5:30:34] has a smartphone, but you still have

[5:30:36] some older people that don't have

[5:30:38] smartphones. How would they pay?

[5:30:40] >> There's an eight there's normally a

[5:30:41] phone number you can call.

[5:30:43] >> Okay.

[5:30:44] >> In most of the cities that I've been to,

[5:30:46] it has a QR code or a phone number you

[5:30:48] can call.

[5:30:49] >> So, would we want staff to get us some

[5:30:52] numbers on what it would cost to go back

[5:30:54] to paid parking? the type of metering

[5:30:57] and additional body to do that.

[5:31:01] >> We got one tickets on that.

[5:31:04] >> Well, I thought we thought we had a

[5:31:07] quote me if I'm wrong. I thought we had

[5:31:09] a parking guy position that we actually

[5:31:11] froze. Did we freeze that?

[5:31:13] >> You eliminated elim I couldn't remember,

[5:31:15] but I was trying to

[5:31:16] >> I'm sorry. Not you personally, council a

[5:31:18] previous council. I could remember I

[5:31:19] could wrong with lemonade.

[5:31:21] >> Will the police bring that position back

[5:31:24] and he would make us enough money to

[5:31:26] probably pay for

[5:31:28] >> well

[5:31:29] >> doing everything else cuz he wrote a lot

[5:31:32] of Do you know how many tickets he wrote

[5:31:33] that ATM4?

[5:31:36] >> Yeah. I mean it was a lot.

[5:31:38] >> Yeah. Keep in mind that's going to cost

[5:31:40] money. So everything that we do on the

[5:31:42] side here and go back to show me the

[5:31:45] money. But I I'm I'm interested too in

[5:31:48] though what would it cost metering wise

[5:31:52] or what's out there to get paid parking?

[5:31:56] >> I know the the the old meters where you

[5:31:59] put a

[5:32:01] five or 10 central accord in are gone.

[5:32:03] That's that's my touch of

[5:32:05] >> No, they're working. They're all gone.

[5:32:07] But but what's out there now is I guess

[5:32:10] what I'd like to see and what we can

[5:32:12] look into it. I guess not to complicate

[5:32:14] things and you can tell me they shut up,

[5:32:15] but part of the parking issue is well

[5:32:18] the business owners are parking in front

[5:32:19] of their building.

[5:32:20] >> Yeah.

[5:32:21] >> Where are they supposed to park?

[5:32:24] >> Do we also need to create a special

[5:32:27] place and category for business? Not

[5:32:29] putting you on the spot, but

[5:32:31] >> I pay $65 a month for

[5:32:33] >> Okay. Well, that's might be okay.

[5:32:36] >> Well, would we then Okay, that raises

[5:32:39] another question.

[5:32:42] The parking areas I mentioned

[5:32:43] >> the parking lots we own

[5:32:46] then could wing van lease out

[5:32:49] >> they space per per week per month

[5:32:53] >> probably

[5:32:55] >> I'm looking at Mike to tell me

[5:32:57] >> Oh yeah I mean

[5:32:59] >> policy and have folks collect it

[5:33:02] >> yeah have preserve parking for

[5:33:04] individuals

[5:33:06] and of course

[5:33:08] >> or you could just do it by having the

[5:33:10] company is managing your your paid

[5:33:12] parking thing.

[5:33:14] >> Talk about my photo code people in town,

[5:33:16] but a lot of them have parking spaces,

[5:33:19] >> but they don't have back doors and they

[5:33:22] don't want to have to walk all the way

[5:33:24] around the block to get there, you know?

[5:33:28] >> Yeah.

[5:33:28] >> Which we rent spots uh spots from what's

[5:33:33] his face?

[5:33:34] >> Brian.

[5:33:35] But like across the street, the

[5:33:37] holiday shop, we have two parking

[5:33:39] spaces. Um,

[5:33:43] them two building the side of us has two

[5:33:45] parking spaces. Garrett has two parking

[5:33:47] spaces.

[5:33:48] >> Clam diggers, they have parking spaces.

[5:33:50] A lot all the way down through there,

[5:33:52] that street they all if you go back in

[5:33:54] that parking lot, everybody has assigned

[5:33:56] parking spaces.

[5:33:57] >> Mhm.

[5:33:58] >> Hen, he has parking spaces behind his

[5:34:00] building, but you got to walk around the

[5:34:02] block. the um Fredericks, all of them,

[5:34:05] they all have parking spaces back there

[5:34:07] that that goes to those buildings. They

[5:34:10] just choose not to park back there

[5:34:12] because you got to walk around the

[5:34:13] block.

[5:34:14] >> Yeah, that that's the thing. And that

[5:34:16] but we could lease parking spots to

[5:34:19] individuals.

[5:34:20] >> I mean I mean we could

[5:34:23] >> Oh, you just pull up and

[5:34:24] >> we probably go and do that anyway with

[5:34:25] our parking lots and and generate some

[5:34:26] revenue.

[5:34:27] Yeah, that's right.

[5:34:28] >> Where Green Drug Store used to be is a

[5:34:29] parking spot where you could do that for

[5:34:31] a business owner

[5:34:33] >> spot center.

[5:34:34] >> I've seen Well, not exactly this, but

[5:34:36] what we've done before is like the

[5:34:38] hangers. You basically sell those each

[5:34:40] year and then they like can turn back in

[5:34:43] or vice versa.

[5:34:44] >> And I'm sorry again not we've also

[5:34:47] talked about resident people living

[5:34:49] above the shops and developing. I've got

[5:34:52] a code ready teed up ready to go for a

[5:34:54] separate permit for those folks outside

[5:34:56] of business hours.

[5:34:58] >> So,

[5:34:59] >> yeah, I mean, we can we can absolutely

[5:35:00] get you a report.

[5:35:01] >> Okay, that that'd be good because I know

[5:35:03] years back in the 90s when I had to work

[5:35:06] uh when I was brought downtown, I had to

[5:35:08] rent a spot several blocks up, I paid

[5:35:11] $25 a month then in a parking garage.

[5:35:13] So, and that that was what 30 more years

[5:35:17] back.

[5:35:20] So it's it's another way to make money.

[5:35:26] » Yeah. Give us some numbers.

[5:35:28] >> We got to look at that.

[5:35:29] >> And not everybody pays for it. Just

[5:35:30] those people that are using the

[5:35:31] services.

[5:35:32] >> Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah.

[5:35:33] >> And in the long run, after about a year

[5:35:35] or two, we'll probably get our

[5:35:36] investment back at it once we start

[5:35:39] doing that. So,

[5:35:40] >> yeah, that's right.

[5:35:46] » All right. Where are we? 30 134

[5:35:51] >> one comment. The public works fees are

[5:35:53] paying with this budget cycle.

[5:35:56] >> Yeah, we created a right ofway permit,

[5:35:59] but we didn't create a fee with it. And

[5:36:02] as Tom's been administering it, people

[5:36:03] been asking, okay, what do I owe you?

[5:36:05] And didn't have anything to point to.

[5:36:07] So,

[5:36:09] there's a start.

[5:36:14] » And what does the rightway fee cover?

[5:36:16] pretty much it's things like driveway

[5:36:18] cuts, um work in the rightway by utility

[5:36:21] companies.

[5:36:25] » It's and it's it performs several

[5:36:27] issues. One of which is accountability

[5:36:28] for safety so we can account for the

[5:36:30] people who are in our right away manage

[5:36:32] that liability.

[5:36:34] It's not just we're not just doing it

[5:36:36] because we can. It's got a practical

[5:36:38] function to it.

[5:36:40] Yeah, we we the the town, you recall,

[5:36:43] had some problems with

[5:36:46] particularly with utilities that were

[5:36:48] busting up the rightway and then either

[5:36:51] not fixing it at all or doing a lousy

[5:36:53] job. And um Bart and then Merrick Black

[5:37:00] asked, "Is there something we can do

[5:37:01] about this?" And I read through the code

[5:37:04] very carefully and I said, "There are

[5:37:05] these two sections of code that says

[5:37:07] that we can require permits for this."

[5:37:10] And

[5:37:12] um Bart said, "Well, I don't remember

[5:37:14] anybody ever having done that. So why

[5:37:16] don't we come up with a policy?" And so

[5:37:19] after that bounced around for a little

[5:37:20] while, Tom and Bart and I put together a

[5:37:23] policy loosely based upon Lynchberg's

[5:37:26] and Ron Oak's policy, but sort of looser

[5:37:29] and more user friendly for a place

[5:37:31] that's, you know, a tenth of the size of

[5:37:33] Ron Oak and Lynchber.

[5:37:36] um in order to cover that as well as

[5:37:38] curb cuts and kind of related stuff

[5:37:40] where people are messing up the right

[5:37:41] way, you're going to have to go out and

[5:37:43] do an inspection and you might have to

[5:37:46] yell at them to get them to fix things

[5:37:48] the right way. So, and there we hadn't

[5:37:51] put a fee in place.

[5:37:53] >> Okay.

[5:38:00] » All right. What questions do you all

[5:38:01] have?

[5:38:07] 135 136

[5:38:11] » through 138.

[5:38:17] » Go ahead.

[5:38:19] >> So,

[5:38:21] >> what were

[5:38:22] >> Well, I guess since I mean and don't take this wrong. I guess since

[5:38:25] we're in the the studies, can we Anna,

[5:38:28] would you be able to look at a long

[5:38:31] range forecast five years or whatever

[5:38:34] between revenue staying static and like

[5:38:36] you said you expenses you've kind of I

[5:38:39] think a 2% inflationary rate and see

[5:38:43] what it looks like for us in those years

[5:38:45] as far as the deficit we're running.

[5:38:47] >> Absolutely. Yes, we we would I'll

[5:38:50] definitely have that ready for the

[5:38:51] adopted budget, but um I can tell you

[5:38:54] that the one that we did last year

[5:38:56] showed that we were okay until we lost

[5:38:58] 750,000 and at that point that's when

[5:39:01] everything flipped.

[5:39:04] » But it would you would be able to tell

[5:39:06] us kind of what that deficit might look

[5:39:09] like. So we could say if we made up

[5:39:10] $130,000

[5:39:12] in revenue, we could do this or

[5:39:14] whatever. But

[5:39:17] I I would speculate that next year will

[5:39:20] be

[5:39:21] that that 750. You'll get a better idea

[5:39:25] next year of what the budget's going to

[5:39:27] look like because that's going to go

[5:39:29] away. So that will determine what

[5:39:33] changes, if any, you'll have to

[5:39:35] >> make as far as taxes increases.

[5:39:38] >> You just want to get when that happens.

[5:39:40] >> I'm I'm going to s be sitting right back

[5:39:43] here listening to you guys. brother.

[5:39:45] That's

[5:39:48] >> Hey, might say, "Hey, don't do that."

[5:39:52] That's I mean, again, I think it's to me

[5:39:54] it's kind of like a social security

[5:39:56] thing that you know, Congress would have

[5:39:58] been able to fix it 30 years ago. It

[5:40:00] would have been small incremental and

[5:40:02] when they finally fix, it's going to be

[5:40:04] a huge thing.

[5:40:04] >> But, but let me let me say this to all

[5:40:06] of you. I I I do compliment you all. I

[5:40:09] think you're on the right track. you're

[5:40:11] thinking ahead and what I call the

[5:40:14] vision is what you just said Dave you're

[5:40:17] looking three four five years down the

[5:40:19] road is to how good or how bad things

[5:40:22] could be and but you don't wait till

[5:40:25] then you get proactive and do something

[5:40:27] about it now to address it and that's

[5:40:30] what we've got to do you can't wait till

[5:40:32] it happens and then say oh the bridge is

[5:40:36] falling down you've got to fix the

[5:40:38] bridge and get it ready to go through

[5:40:41] that that area. So, so no, you're

[5:40:44] exactly right. If we had any idea of

[5:40:48] five years from now what it would

[5:40:50] definitely look like, we know what to

[5:40:52] do. But yes, if Ann or staff could get

[5:40:55] us a rough crystal ball idea and it'll

[5:40:59] give us more direction,

[5:41:00] >> right,

[5:41:01] >> as to what what we need to do moving

[5:41:03] forward. You're and and I I'd encourage

[5:41:05] you guys to think that way. continue to

[5:41:08] look ahead and ask those type questions

[5:41:10] because I mean there's so much

[5:41:13] volatility here electric uh all that

[5:41:16] stuff we just you don't know and you

[5:41:18] can't say well we don't need this or

[5:41:21] don't need that because like electric

[5:41:23] public works police they're out there in

[5:41:27] all types of weather. So you got to

[5:41:29] understand some things they've got to

[5:41:31] have and and what what type of service

[5:41:35] do we want to give the customer,

[5:41:37] >> right?

[5:41:37] >> And that's what it's about.

[5:41:39] >> Customer service.

[5:41:41] >> So

[5:41:41] >> and I just Yeah. Yeah. And I'll shut I

[5:41:44] won't shut up. One thing

[5:41:47] Well, I don't want you to.

[5:41:48] >> I know. It's just that also, like you

[5:41:50] say, being proactive and not having to,

[5:41:53] you know, kneejerk it is it gives now

[5:41:56] that Woody's going to be coming online,

[5:41:57] it gives him a chance to communicate the

[5:42:00] reasoning behind what we're doing.

[5:42:02] >> Yes.

[5:42:03] >> And it, you know, so people can't say we

[5:42:06] didn't,

[5:42:06] >> right?

[5:42:07] >> You know, give them inform them or or

[5:42:08] those kind of things. So,

[5:42:10] >> yeah, good deal.

[5:42:13] >> All right,

[5:42:16] Dave. Any more questions?

[5:42:18] No sir, Mr. Mayor.

[5:42:20] >> Any more questions?

[5:42:22] >> Mr.

[5:42:24] Mayor.

[5:42:25] >> Well,

[5:42:26] >> no.

[5:42:29] Councilman Haley,

[5:42:31] >> you good?

[5:42:32] >> I'm good.

[5:42:33] >> You sure?

[5:42:34] >> I'm sure.

[5:42:34] >> All right. Unless you want to go back to

[5:42:36] page seven,

[5:42:39] >> start all over again. He's getting his

[5:42:41] clues. Don't worry.

[5:42:42] >> I've been stuck on page 132 for two

[5:42:44] hours. Councilman Fman, what do you

[5:42:47] have? I don't know. Council Defilito,

[5:42:50] you're good. You You're packed up, ready

[5:42:52] to go.

[5:42:53] >> I got to be at Aban Hill in 20 minutes.

[5:42:57] >> I do have one request. When the budget

[5:43:00] process is complete, if everyone could

[5:43:02] turn the binder back in, I would like to

[5:43:05] reuse it next year and save on cost.

[5:43:12] » Hands it on down. Hey, I figured

[5:43:17] >> I've got a whole box of container of the

[5:43:20] old ones. You want those?

[5:43:21] >> Yeah, absolutely.

[5:43:22] >> I'll bring them in. I'll give them

[5:43:26] good.

[5:43:27] >> Is Is Bill's over yet? Yeah. Bills

Town Council Budget Work Session: 5.02.26

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