[0:25] It's not a >> Welcome everyone. It is 6:30. I'm going

[0:28] to go ahead and get started. Thank you so much for being here. Um we'll call to

[0:33] order this public hearing on our fiscal year 2027

[0:37] property tax increase. It is Wednesday, August 12th, 6:30 p.m. We're at Lot 2,

[0:43] Castle Valley Drive, and also on Zoom tonight.

[0:47] Um we'll do a quick roll call. Uh then I'll

[0:51] just go over quickly to as a refresher of what we're doing, and we'll open for

[0:56] public comment. >> So here we have Jasmine Docken, Pamela

[1:00] Gibson, Tory Hill, and Robert O'Brien, Colleen Thompson, George Hawley, the

[1:06] Augustins, the Browns, Norman Lewellen, Don Montoya, and Dave Byers on Zoom.

[1:15] » You ready? >> Okay.

[1:17] » Okay, so um I know this has been all over our website and our emails at Town

[1:23] of Castle Valley will consider an increase to its property tax rate from

[1:27] .000864

[1:30] to .001193 to generate an additional 75,000.

[1:36] The following information is intended to provide decision makers and the public

[1:40] with an explanation of how the town's operations would be affected if the

[1:45] proposed property tax increase is adopted.

[1:49] The Town of Castle Valley's current property tax rate is .000864.

[1:54] Town of Castle Valley's current property tax income is 134,000

[1:59] $850. The proposed revenue with the tax change

[2:04] would be $209,850.

[2:08] And the new property tax revenue to Castle Valley will be $73,666. It's an

[2:13] estimated increase to the town of Castle Valley's

[2:18] property tax revenue of 54.04%.

[2:23] And we're not sure why it comes out at 73,666

[2:28] instead of 75,000. That's what the state generated, so.

[2:33] I'll go ahead and open to public comments.

[2:36] » Oh. Hey, I

[2:38] » Yeah, George, go ahead. >> That was quick. I was expecting Jetson's

[2:43] other things.

[2:46] Okay, you proposed to raise property taxes.

[2:50] The one thing that you didn't mention here, you already received a substantial

[2:55] property tax increase last year because of valuation went up.

[2:59] That's a windfall. Um so, and um

[3:06] now you seek another 50%. The first thing that I noticed you list

[3:12] a medium home price of whatever it is in your about 500 and

[3:17] something thousand. There isn't a house in Castle Valley that sells at that.

[3:21] Recent sales are 850 to 1.1 4 million. So, the medium here is probably closer

[3:27] to 950. So, that increase that you published here is going to be

[3:33] much larger for the average property owner in the valley.

[3:37] So, that's a little deceptive, you know, and we need to do that before we do any

[3:43] homestead exemptions. Um now you

[3:47] seek to double your tax revenues for 2024. And then it was a property tax,

[3:53] property value increases about double. Um my main concern is that Castle Valley

[3:59] Drive is going to be due for major repairs and replacement in the near

[4:03] future. And then you're probably going to do the

[4:06] same thing again. You need to raise taxes cuz you don't have the revenue to

[4:10] support that. In the meantime, we have been wasting

[4:14] tens of thousands of dollars on biased water studies and test wells

[4:19] that will at best benefit a few and probably no one here in the valley

[4:25] unless they're not that they're scientifically based.

[4:30] Uh and we've been doing extensive road repairs on some of the dirt roads like

[4:36] the ones that leave lead to the upper eighties.

[4:39] Uh and that's will have a limited short life and benefit a few residents. And we

[4:44] need to remember people that live in these areas

[4:48] typically buy these properties at a discount.

[4:51] And then they expect the same service that other parts of the valley have.

[4:56] When you live in Castle Valley, one thing being

[5:00] that I strongly feel about, we're a rural community. We're not a city. We

[5:04] don't have blacktop roads everywhere. So you need a consider four-wheel drive

[5:10] is a must. We had that in Salt Lake County when I was president of a

[5:14] homeowners association. That's what we told people. It rains, it

[5:19] washes, and you cannot drive your normal road car, your minivan, or whatever,

[5:25] Teslas, whatever they are uh through those roads. You need a

[5:30] rugged vehicle. And people who want to live in this

[5:33] community must be aware that some services are simply not economically

[5:38] feasible and accept it or don't move here.

[5:42] It's that simple. In any case, I I see any foreseeable end

[5:47] to town's need for additional revenue. And the especially the road maintenance.

[5:54] Many of the old residents that live here on a fixed income

[5:58] and they simply cannot afford these continuing increases both from the

[6:03] county and the town. It's a it's a big burden

[6:06] that we need to be aware of. And therefore I consider that

[6:11] unacceptable. The town sort of brought that upon

[6:16] themselves when they took over the road maintenance from the county.

[6:20] It was about the dumbest thing that was ever done, but some of the people in

[6:24] charge at the time and it's not on here had a vested interest. They thought they

[6:29] could do better than the county and we get punished for it now.

[6:34] Um I think we need to look at the road

[6:38] maintenance, see if we could rather than increase taxes bring our costs down. I

[6:42] noticed Lazarus Lane has been regraded and

[6:46] regravelled, partially regravelled a few times.

[6:49] Personally, I don't think it's necessary cuz you reach our driveway and it's

[6:53] muddy and non-drivable uh as ever. So I think we need to strike

[6:59] a balance that everyone needs to live with.

[7:02] And maybe rather than just increasing the taxes look at what

[7:07] we can do maintenance-wise, what is necessary and

[7:11] what's not. You know, having a town as you Everyone

[7:16] here knows my opinion. I love people I'm dealing with. They're great people.

[7:21] But what's in it for me? You know, I pay all these taxes at the

[7:26] way county. What additional services do I get and other than

[7:30] a couple of notaries a year, probably not much. So

[7:35] the whole aspect is not so being in town needs to be evaluated. Can we do that?

[7:40] And if so, we need to do a long-term plan and not just a one-time tax

[7:45] increase. What do they offer people? And there are some things that we would

[7:50] offer. Uh protection against overbuilding, but

[7:54] that can be achieved in other ways if we wanted to.

[7:59] And if we had no property taxes, Castle Valley taxes, the average owner of

[8:04] $850,000 home

[8:06] would save $440 a year before and $640 a year after the proposed tax increases.

[8:15] And the county, we already pay for road maintenance, so

[8:19] I personally see don't see a lot unless we reinvent the

[8:24] town, then maybe that is doable. But absent of that,

[8:30] one final closing point and I know I'm probably over my 3 minutes.

[8:34] The In 2026, South Hadley, Massachusetts,

[8:40] proposed a property tax for a hike of 50%.

[8:43] And that would have been phased in over several years, not over one.

[8:48] And the voters rejected by 65 to 32%

[8:55] The largest increases Utah is in Draper, 25% increase for the 26-27 year. So,

[9:03] Castle Valley stands out with that request.

[9:07] Maybe we need to look at services facing an over several years.

[9:12] But a one-year tax increase of that magnitude is a different burden on the

[9:17] community. >> Thank you, Butch.

[9:20] I had um Dennis, was your hand waving up back there?

[9:24] » Well, I couldn't hear it from here. >> Oh, you were just waving your hand.

[9:27] Don, would you like to go next? >> Uh has the town looked at alternative

[9:33] funding sources rather than a taxing goods.

[9:38] If so, what's the feasibility of that?

[9:43] » Like what alternatives? I mean, we have definitely been using grants this past 2

[9:47] years to do a lot of projects that we've done.

[9:50] Unfortunately, to do anything, if you don't have money in the bank, you just

[9:56] the grant wouldn't have even existed for us if we couldn't have paid for it and

[10:00] then been reimbursed. So, if we don't have capital projects

[10:05] money in the bank, you can't even use those resources.

[10:11] » We We received 500,000 over 500,000 for the Colburn project.

[10:19] » So, grants are another source of >> Yeah.

[10:22] » They can, but if you don't have money to pay up front,

[10:28] grants are all based on reimbursement. >> Not necessarily.

[10:31] » All the ones that are available to municipalities thank you for being here.

[10:37] » What about restructuring

[10:42] the tax income? So, it would Draper was mentioned, for example.

[10:47] Draper has a absentee owner tax,

[10:54] which means if

[10:57] you if the if you're a resident of Draper

[11:02] and you're not the property owner, then that is looked at

[11:10] taxing differently. So, it's a uh

[11:14] occupancy tax. So, second homeowners in Draper,

[11:21] that second home is taxed 50% higher. >> It's the same in the entire state.

[11:26] » Yeah. >> Yeah, we get taxed more for being out of

[11:28] state. >> Well, actually, I think you get a

[11:31] discount for living here. >> Right. If it's a half

[11:36] » You're paying 100% of your second homeowner and if we're full-time

[11:39] residents we get a total of 45. >> But but if there if there's a second

[11:43] home here and it's not the primary residence of the owner of that property

[11:49] are they taxed the same or differently? >> They're taxed at 100%.

[11:54] » Pardon? >> They pay 100%.

[11:56] » That's not true. If it's a rental property and it's someone's primary

[12:01] residence, it is taxed as a primary residence.

[12:05] So it it's different if it's a a nightly rental which we don't have,

[12:12] but in town nightly rentals are taxed at a way higher rate

[12:16] than um

[12:19] » Right, they they occupy So we that's that's

[12:23] and I'm not saying it's a port port it's a source of revenue here

[12:27] necessarily. >> Well, it is because second homeowners

[12:31] are charged at the full rate uh so

[12:36] if if you live here and you're you're taxed on your residence

[12:41] the value of your home, you're only taxed on half of that value.

[12:46] If you don't live here and it's not your primary residence, you are taxed on 100%

[12:51] of the value of your home. >> Why not 150%?

[12:55] » Yeah, that would be a question for the state.

[12:58] » Yeah. >> Well, I don't know that it's I'm just

[13:00] using Draper as an example. My my son lives in Draper and

[13:06] he has a neighbor that the house is a rental.

[13:11] The tax on that rental is 50% more than it would be if that

[13:20] was a primary residence. It's not a primary residence, it's a rental.

[13:26] Well, that's a higher tax. >> If he had her long-term rental he could

[13:30] file a four primary residence

[13:35] that's an incentive to have long-term occupancy instead of

[13:40] the short-term vacation if you rented out on an annual

[13:44] contract you file a form with your county assessor and then it's taxed at a

[13:49] different rate primary the county tax I'm talking about the municipality tax

[13:54] that is based on what the county is the county gives you 50%

[13:59] the municipality gives you 50% Well no but

[14:05] the municipality gets its tax rate so when when the taxes went up last year

[14:12] because everybody's assessed value went up we did not get any more money than

[14:19] prior year yeah let me give you that example so 2025 our actual property tax

[14:25] revenue was a hundred thirty-two thousand three hundred ninety-eight

[14:28] dollars and forty-four cents our amended budget for 2026 our property tax

[14:35] revenue for the year was whopping increase of like two grand a

[14:40] hundred thirty-four thousand eight hundred fifty dollars so we did not have

[14:45] a windfall from that assessment you should be you should be assessed You

[14:51] should be assessed on the whole

[14:56] you have all I'm saying is that there are other

[14:58] municipalities Boulder where I lived previously

[15:01] if you are not a primary resident living in that home regardless of

[15:07] whether it's a short-term or long-term rent

[15:11] that is taxed higher than what a single property owner would be paying do we

[15:20] have that structure here?

[15:25] » 100% versus 50%. >> No, 150%.

[15:30] » That's a whole state thing. You'd have to have the whole legislature change

[15:34] that. >> That's not a municipal decision.

[15:36] » That is That's not >> something that we even have any

[15:39] any control over.

[15:43] » Okay, I've got hands. I saw hands.

[15:46] Paulina, go ahead. >> Um I've I've spent kind of hours going

[15:50] into how our property taxes work, how they're calculated,

[15:55] and um even though because of that assessment a

[16:00] year or two ago, everybody's tax here went up,

[16:03] that money didn't go to the town. It went

[16:07] toward lowering the rate for other parts of the county.

[16:11] It's it's very not it's very counterintuitive the way the taxes work,

[16:16] and there are some um uh

[16:19] letter or somebody has some resources explaining this that I would be happy to

[16:24] put on the our website to help people understand it.

[16:29] But also, if you look at your tax statement, the town's portion of what

[16:33] you're paying is less than 10%. So, a 50% increase of that 50% sounds

[16:40] scary, but it's 50% of such a small number compared to the schools and the

[16:46] library and the fire department. That is >> Well, that's a different meeting,

[16:53] schools and libraries. >> I I don't

[16:56] I don't have any kids at school. But anyway, so it it's it's very

[17:01] counterintuitive and it's kind of it feels backwards the way they figure the

[17:05] percentage and the amounts, and then the the amount

[17:10] of revenue through the whole county is kind of spread out among the county. So,

[17:16] ours went up, somebody else's went down. When I got my tax statement recently, it

[17:22] said some other part of the county got reassessed, so your tax

[17:27] amount might go down because of that. Well, mine didn't, it went up. But

[17:32] anyway, it's it seems really weird the way they do it, but I checked and

[17:37] apparently that's nationwide. It's almost the same

[17:42] everywhere. >> They're supposed to take the whole

[17:45] county value as a whole, yes, and then proportionally allocate to the

[17:50] assessment. So, that is correct. Maybe we need that new subdivision they're

[17:54] trying to build with a 10 million dollar homes.

[17:59] » Chances are you got a tax rate going higher.

[18:01] » Mhm. That won't help they created their own municipality.

[18:04] » That's not >> Right.

[18:06] » But the county staff is still there. Schools and everything.

[18:10] » But the point is we did not get a windfall in the town because of that

[18:14] increase. Um >> I would complain, you should have.

[18:18] » Yeah, I would. >> Yeah.

[18:20] » A lot of you You submit your budget, your whether

[18:23] you're the library or the fire department or town or whatever, you

[18:26] submit your budget and then the county decides if you get all the money you

[18:30] asked for. And we haven't had an increase for like 10 years. 11. 11

[18:36] years. >> years

[18:38] » So, anyway, it's it's it's a system that's hard to understand,

[18:43] but >> And 11 years ago, when we did ask for an

[18:47] increase, it was specifically for water study, it was also for the culvert

[18:52] replacement. And if we wouldn't have done that then

[18:55] and started putting money every year into the capital funds, we wouldn't have

[18:59] been able to do that. And it took that long.

[19:02] Yeah, the other problem is that the the culvert project happened at the same

[19:07] time that we would have been chip sealing House Valley Drive, which is

[19:10] very due. So, this is basically just going right

[19:15] back to that so that we can get that done by next fall.

[19:19] » I'm waiting for a lawsuit on that Clover project.

[19:23] » Are you? >> Well, if you're coming into town and you

[19:26] go and you hit the corner the the safety guardrail safety

[19:30] » probably going over 50 miles an hour. >> No. No, because that safety guardrail is

[19:34] going to trip a car. It's not going to hold a car back. It's not It's not high

[19:38] enough. I I guarantee you that somebody is going

[19:42] to at that turn that guardrail is not high enough to hold the car back should

[19:48] they hit it. The car is going to flip over that

[19:50] guardrail and there's going to be a oncoming lawsuit.

[19:54] » But the guardrail is only on one side. And it's on the uphill side, not on the

[19:58] downhill side. That's what I find interesting.

[20:03] » I just I Every time I go around that corner coming into town

[20:07] somebody is going especially >> Okay, we're we are going to need to get

[20:11] » Well, I'm just saying get ready for a lawsuit.

[20:16] » Go ahead, James. >> Why isn't there a guardrail on the

[20:21] downhill side? >> Well, I just

[20:26] You said it never was. >> But that doesn't

[20:29] » We We noticed it is because

[20:33] budget, not on the guardrail, not on the pending lawsuits, and I'd like to move

[20:37] back to the budget and our tax increase. >> Thank you.

[20:41] You're right.

[20:44] I will take more open public comments about the budget.

[20:48] » Uh Okay, and Bill Gaston, 100 West Pace. Uh appreciate the open town hall here

[20:54] just to talk about it. Recognizing last year's windfall didn't

[20:58] really materialize. Uh it is question the hardship and the potential

[21:04] for deferral that I do think there's some serious

[21:07] conversation around we all took the hit but didn't receive

[21:10] any of the benefit and there may be further legislation or representation

[21:15] that needs to take place for the the this Castle Valley. I I am curious also

[21:20] the property amount of property uh and the improvement of property over the

[21:24] past decade has been substantial in the valley.

[21:27] Uh and I don't think we are compensated basically for the change in

[21:33] what's available what is currently in the valley. It seems

[21:36] like we should be receiving a a better deal from the county on these increases.

[21:42] I know we all know that. I think we all know that and I think we actually need

[21:45] to have legal representation to try to get that. Uh 10 years ago if people

[21:50] weren't here for the past decade yeah, they probably still think there's open

[21:54] land but take a look. There's properties everywhere here and we actually need

[21:58] better services and roads and everything else to make that happen. So as a point

[22:02] I think yes, we got I believe the prior administration screwed and I I would say

[22:07] that as a group I think you could have a relatively good pitchforks and torches

[22:11] conversation with the county regarding that. Uh but knowing that the you

[22:16] answered my first question here, there wasn't a sudden increase in revenue.

[22:21] Probably my comment here really is a question of the three to five year

[22:24] projection of what is going to happen cuz I can see

[22:28] us being here next August having the same conversation.

[22:32] Uh I think we are actually behind but we're not reaping the benefits of what

[22:35] should have coming be coming back from the county.

[22:38] So it would be interesting just in terms of the KPIs, what's the standard we're

[22:42] going to hold what is the correct amount of property

[22:46] tax for our valley through 2032? Uh I don't know if we know that.

[22:51] Actually you guys keep a a very nice budget. I didn't get a chance to print

[22:54] it off and and bring it along but uh it would be interesting to project out the

[22:58] next few years because I don't think your current increase

[23:02] is actually uh

[23:05] going to satisfy the required needs for the valley over the next 5 years. And

[23:09] the community takes the hardship and then the county

[23:13] takes all the money. So, I do think that there is a legal battle

[23:18] over the next 5 years to say we need our share back because if you're going to

[23:22] improve taxes, I came from California. Taxes like the somehow you spell tax

[23:27] with California. I don't know how it works, but

[23:30] I'm used to taxes. I get it, but I also had

[23:33] roads and schools and lights and by golly if we didn't get down to the last

[23:38] penny we were raising cane to get our money

[23:42] out of the county and the state to make that happen. So, I think my primary

[23:46] concern, yes, I'd love the property tax increase to not happen. That's sure.

[23:51] But, the reality is if I'm going to pay the tax, by golly this valley actually

[23:56] needs to get what they deserve out of it.

[23:58] And I think that would be where I'd stake my flag for the next 5 years.

[24:03] We got to get roads and guardrails. I won't do that.

[24:08] But, the idea is if we're going to be paying more, we get more. And I don't

[24:12] think the past increase and I guess it's 11 years since the last time we had the

[24:16] increase time to to portion

[24:19] pitchfork this thing because we're not getting what we need out of the county

[24:23] and the state to support this valley as it is today.

[24:26] » One comment on to that, we need a post office here

[24:30] cuz we can't get we can't have a post office

[24:34] » I actually I I take everything back. Post office.

[24:42] But, but conceptually I get the reality of

[24:45] taxes, but I don't think we're getting our due for the increase that these

[24:50] these folks, especially the fixed income folks they didn't move out here to

[24:54] suddenly pay three four times the taxes. So, I see that happening over the next

[24:58] five >> They reassessed them. When it was

[24:59] assessed at one value and then a year or two later it doubled.

[25:03] » Yeah. >> Yeah, improvement. We're still living in

[25:05] a fifth wheel and yet you know, with a the you know, a ruthless thing and and

[25:11] yet we're taxed you know, they get increased.

[25:13] » It's probably worth four times as much. >> It's really expensive.

[25:15] » And so, that's that's what got me is that like yes, they they assess reassess

[25:21] the value for way more. Like and now they're like way more and now you're the

[25:26] math doesn't even work. So, they tax us. They increase it but then you don't get

[25:32] the same amount of the increase. That doesn't make any sense.

[25:35] » Right. >> Not unless we ask for it, which is what

[25:36] we have to do and >> Yeah. Yeah.

[25:39] » Okay, so you're asking for it is not going to affect us. You're just asking

[25:43] for your share out of what they're taking from us already. It's not going

[25:47] to increase our >> No, it won't.

[25:49] » It won't. >> Well, see that's

[25:50] » That's the only and that's the only way >> But

[25:53] they should be just giving you what giving us what we're we're paying

[25:57] what Yeah. >> I think we're all in agreement on that.

[26:00] » Yeah. >> But we just don't know what to do about

[26:03] it. How do you get the county to I mean, they'd rather spend money on the

[26:07] arches shovel than they >> We should get three of all commissioners

[26:13] on the county board. That would dramatically change.

[26:16] » Yeah. >> Or at least have residents go to the

[26:18] meetings. >> Mhm.

[26:20] » And some of them you got that quorum. >> And remember in November, vote.

[26:24] » Yes. >> Yes.

[26:25] » Amen. >> Uh so,

[26:27] » Yeah, that's my 10 cents. I don't think I'm

[26:31] I know the tax increase is real but I just don't think we're getting our fair

[26:34] share. Happy to have a separate meeting on how to figure that out.

[26:39] » Thank you. >> Yeah.

[26:42] » Anyone other than calling that hasn't gone

[26:44] Just sorry but I'll come back to you. Anyone online um have public comment

[26:50] that has not spoken?

[26:53] » Uh yeah, Dave Fry here. Hi, guys. >> Hi, Dave.

[26:57] » Hi, everybody. Um yeah, my comment's pretty simple. I

[27:00] mean, I'm looking at my tax property valuation and tax changes notice that we

[27:06] just all got um recently from the uh from uh Gabriel at the uh uh uh

[27:14] uh Grant County uh auditor with uh

[27:18] tr- uh clerk or whatever. Um It seems pretty

[27:23] simple to me. I do understand everybody's uh issues um and uh wanting

[27:28] these these different things. Um And the last uh gentleman that mentioned um how

[27:34] we're not getting um our share out of the big price tag that the county puts

[27:40] on their dollar amount. Um I totally agree with that. But, I'm looking at my

[27:45] tax bill and it says the increase is $213.41.

[27:50] That's how much my taxes are going to go up for the increase to Castle Valley. Am

[27:55] I reading that right? >> Totally. Yep.

[27:58] » Okay. Um and um

[28:02] I mean and we have two properties here and uh

[28:06] so we're going to have to pay some extra money. I am totally okay

[28:11] with giving Castle Valley $214.41.

[28:18] Um for each property. Um it uh I understand

[28:23] that the bills are big, but the portion that goes to us to our town is small.

[28:29] And I think Tory really explained it pretty pretty well there, too. So,

[28:34] $213.41, I'm all for um

[28:39] the tax increase on my properties, our properties, Susan and I's, to um

[28:45] uh better the roads and continue uh

[28:48] uh making the town better.

[28:53] That's my two cents. >> Thank you, Dave. Thank you, Dave.

[28:58] » Ruth, um you've got us tonight. I agree with Dave. I mean

[29:03] obviously we we can afford the increase. We think that it's necessary. The town

[29:09] needs the money. I think it would be great to get more from the county. I

[29:14] don't know if we can figure that out, but we need the money. We need the money

[29:17] for our roads. We need it for all the other activities that we're doing and

[29:23] I we love living here and it's cheaper than where we came from. So,

[29:28] we're we're up for going for the extra tax.

[29:32] We support it. >> Thank you, Bonnie.

[29:35] » Thank you, Ruth. >> Hey, Colleen.

[29:38] » Um I just wanted to say that somebody said vote. Um

[29:43] the last let's see when we had the new assessment a couple years ago, a lot of

[29:48] us filed a protest. And I don't know how many people

[29:53] attended the Zoom meeting of the uh when they had the hearing for that.

[30:00] Um it was very unsatisfactory. The assessor apparently has nobody

[30:06] running against her. So, I would

[30:09] keep that in mind cuz the assessor was invited to come and

[30:14] talk to us out here and refused to come or send a representative.

[30:19] Trisha Hedin came and did her best. But the other thing was that the uh

[30:27] I forget what it's called, but the hearing uh appeal committee is the

[30:32] county commissioners and they all said "We're not qualified to sit in judgment

[30:38] on this stuff. We have no idea how it works.

[30:41] So, we'll just go along with what the assessor said. So, I would

[30:46] pressure the county commissioners to do something, change the system,

[30:53] get a different assessor, do something. They contract out the assessments, they

[30:57] said, and they have for years to the same outfit.

[31:02] That and there's a lot of unequal assessments that I put in my appeal that

[31:08] they didn't care. So, that would be an angle to

[31:12] use. >> Well, along those lines, see, properties

[31:17] on the next to the town are still significantly lower for no apparent

[31:21] reason. >> Because they didn't reassess that area.

[31:26] » Well, they did this year. And they're still lower.

[31:28] » They're still lower? >> Yeah.

[31:29] » Oh, wow. >> So, someone needs to take a look at

[31:32] that. That is probably the biggest thing just

[31:36] because you're on the other side of the town border. No offense, but I don't

[31:40] think the town adds that much value to anything.

[31:43] » Well, people across the creek are in county.

[31:47] » Yeah. >> receive no road service whatsoever. We

[31:50] did not receive road service from the county on our side roads out here ever.

[31:54] We town, POA, the county has never done road service on side roads here ever.

[32:01] So, if you think that that's what they're going to do if we get to get rid

[32:05] of the town and go back to the county, that's not what's going to happen.

[32:09] » Well, I don't >> We need to talk

[32:10] » about the assessment right now. Yeah. The properties on the other side of the

[32:15] town boundary should be comparable in value. There's no reason why they

[32:19] aren't. >> and I know why they're not because I've

[32:21] seen them on the market for the same. >> Yeah. Well, they are, but if you look at

[32:25] the assessed value, I looked a couple of months this year.

[32:28] » Yeah. Well, then they've driven it because they're selling for the same

[32:31] amount. >> Yeah.

[32:32] » They should be assessed higher because you don't have as many limitations on

[32:35] what they can do with their property as properties in the town.

[32:40] » Mhm. We think that, too. >> I know, it's our our our house decreased

[32:45] in value, but our property went up, but we can't do anything more with our

[32:49] property. I mean, our land. I mean, you can't build another house or anything.

[32:54] So, I mean, they're just kind of weird. The assessment.

[32:59] » Good people are dropping 400,000 for a bare lot.

[33:02] » Well, that's the problem. >> appeals for people who had flooding in

[33:06] 2024. They did approve appeals for people who

[33:10] had flooding. And our appeal

[33:13] a portion of our property that floods was approved. The next 2 years it

[33:19] wasn't. And well, just like yours. Why not?

[33:22] » Three times as much as it was before. >> Right.

[33:24] » And it's still the same flooded piece of property.

[33:28] » Yeah. It makes no sense. Yeah. So.

[33:31] So, talk to your commissioners about the assessor.

[33:35] » Mhm. Well, will that do anything about it?

[33:38] » Well, that's part of it. But, I do appreciate

[33:41] the discussion about long-term plan for where where this goes because I do think

[33:46] and Tory and I have talked about um capital projects plan at least for this

[33:51] coming couple of years before she's retiring

[33:55] from her position as the treasurer here. So, keep that in mind, too.

[34:00] Um

[34:03] » See y'all later.

[34:07] » I don't agree with having a a continuous need for increases down here.

[34:12] I'm more on board with I'm going to ride my cow if I have to.

[34:17] That's kind of my where I, you know, the four-wheel drive person. Um but, there

[34:22] are certainly people here and uh there's an expectation here now from a lot of

[34:26] people that aren't going to be able to do that, you know. Just And

[34:31] we can't realistically do that. We have state road funds coming

[34:37] in for every mile of road that we have. So, we can't just tell people, "Sorry,

[34:42] you just going to have to walk." >> That's only Castle Valley twice, right?

[34:46] » No, it's all of our roads. You get more for the paved surfaces than you do for

[34:52] the gravel surfaces, but it's all all 70 miles of roads that we have.

[34:57] » Yeah, exactly. That was in the last year like that.

[35:00] » Oh, so we have had gravel >> Yeah, 3 years ago.

[35:03] » Well, anyway I think

[35:05] I had gravel would be a less you get less with that.

[35:14] » Random question. Are there not alternate sources of income, but is

[35:18] direct funding an opportunity Castle Valley? Do we have to raise property tax

[35:23] or do you have funding that 100% state in Castle

[35:26] Valley? Would that be appropriate?

[35:28] » Like donors? >> Yes.

[35:30] » Single use capital improvement >> Um I I would find it difficult

[35:35] to rely on donors as a long-term plan. >> No, yeah, long-term single use single

[35:40] single budget like $5. >> Project? Yes, we could probably do that.

[35:46] » Uh okay. I

[35:49] I would entertain the possibility that within scope of what would be reasonable

[35:53] for the uh

[35:55] our neighbors that

[35:59] there may be a certain criteria or limited a single time capital

[36:04] improvement for the valley where we don't give it to the county and we keep

[36:07] it all within the town. Uh and see if we could raise the funds

[36:11] ourselves to do it. >> As a just as like a fundraiser?

[36:15] » One one time for Yeah, cuz that's a $10 million project. That's not going to

[36:18] happen, but if it's $150,000

[36:22] to improve something, I I bet you there There be enough of us to say I don't

[36:26] want it to >> Maybe

[36:27] » it was a very important project. >> Yeah, maybe. I just want to offer that

[36:30] up as within reason. We don't have money here.

[36:33] » Yeah, time that we have to get Castle Valley

[36:36] Drive done. We probably don't have the time that

[36:39] we'd take to rally that a fundraiser to come up with that kind

[36:44] of money. But I do think with this What did we discuss this year's

[36:49] increase and I'm not really going to say right now.

[36:53] » But I'm I'm going to be really >> We could talk about that at our next

[36:56] meeting. Um Jocelyn and I have been working on

[36:59] the actual budget and it's been a little difficult just because of all

[37:04] of the funding and everything. So >> Right.

[37:06] » Um I I'd be more than happy to discuss that

[37:10] next week. >> Okay.

[37:12] So we're probably somewhat close to being ready for Castle

[37:16] Valley Drive with this year's increase and then maybe I feel like we could then

[37:21] discuss a better way forward.

[37:27] Well, you know, if you know, I'll talk about that

[37:30] » have We never We're never going to not have a need for some capital projects.

[37:35] My sitting in a in an account ready for a problem. So, you know, that's always

[37:40] going to be a need. How we get it there, I don't know. You

[37:45] know, that could be another discussion. >> Well, this is a step forward

[37:52] in being able to do that. It took us almost 10 years to save up what

[37:58] we had in our capital funds and because of our grants that helped with culvert

[38:04] project we still do have some money in the capital road

[38:10] funds. So um

[38:14] it's looking likely we may be able to do that next fall.

[38:17] » Okay. What is the figure that NRCS put in?

[38:21] » It's like $500,000. >> Yeah.

[38:24] So >> amount of outside money.

[38:27] » Yeah, half half of it. Half of it was paid out by

[38:31] » Yeah. >> Yeah, I right. Generally, like I pulled

[38:35] budgets from the from 2008 through like 2023 because 20 after that were

[38:41] kind of weird off years because of projects.

[38:46] And like the amounts that we were putting in every year just to make these

[38:50] things happen were between five and 40 grand.

[38:55] You know, like whatever we could basically every year to make these

[38:59] things happen. So, it It's kind of scrapping things together,

[39:03] which is not a great long-term huge solution.

[39:11] » I just have a clarification question. Do we actually service any debt in town

[39:15] once this all >> Um, we do have debt. It's buildings.

[39:18] We're We're getting really low on that. We're almost done

[39:22] with most of our debt. So, >> And they're very minimal. I mean, it's

[39:26] like one payment is 7,000 a year. The other payment's 8,000 a year. It's not

[39:31] » And now that we own our road equipment and our leasing, you know, some of those

[39:35] things have gone away. Like we don't We work towards, you know, keeping them

[39:39] » the problem. >> Yeah, that's good.

[39:40] » We're not just throwing >> Well,

[39:42] I think it's maintenance. >> Maintenance is what I mean.

[39:45] » Yeah, that's a big >> Yeah, now they're getting old enough

[39:47] where we're going to have to start repairing them.

[39:50] So, >> Yeah, one or two more years and then you

[39:52] say, "Yeah, that's someone else's decision now." So,

[39:58] » Um, I just wanted to say something that

[40:00] George A. always brings up and that is that

[40:04] in the last I don't know, I did an average of what property tax income we

[40:07] were getting 130,000-ish a year.

[40:11] 120 I mean, 125,000 to 134,000 for the last 10 years.

[40:19] That doesn't buy today what it did then. And that is our main problem is

[40:25] everything costs so much more now. >> And yet we're still trying to

[40:30] make this place run on what we were getting years ago. Everything costs

[40:36] more. >> Yeah.

[40:38] » The diesel >> was our last chip seal? 150?

[40:41] » 120 bucks. >> 125,000? 250,000.

[40:46] For now. >> But it's everything. It's computers,

[40:49] it's electricity. >> hole

[40:51] repairs to get it ready. >> Yeah.

[40:54] » And it'll probably be a quarter inch thinner.

[40:57] » Yeah. Right. Exactly. >> Hey, what the cell tower can come have

[41:03] helped putting in the stuff or not? >> No, I think Brian had proposed that to

[41:09] the fire district because of the county.

[41:12] » Oh. >> Oh, the county

[41:14] » Yeah, fire. >> So I got the valley never even getting

[41:16] that? >> Oh, no control zones.

[41:19] » Okay. >> So the valley never gets anything.

[41:21] » That's no matter. >> Yeah.

[41:23] » It's still more than we have. >> But we do

[41:26] » Yeah, we're going to have. >> That's the door.

[41:28] Let's these street lights.

[41:30] » Oh, yeah, the cost of everything is getting ridiculous.

[41:33] » And hiring people to do anything. >> Yeah.

[41:36] » People won't work for 10, 15, 12, 20 dollars an hour anymore.

[41:42] » Yeah, if you go back and it's on our finances page of the website. I called

[41:45] him Scott on there today and put all of these budgets on there for me because I

[41:49] wanted them. And then she So she Thank you. Um

[41:52] what we were paying for roads department in 2008 was like

[41:57] great. You know.

[42:00] We're paying people 10 15,000 a year to

[42:05] to do everything.

[42:08] That's your problem. >> Not a living.

[42:10] » No one can live. >> No one's going to to have a job like

[42:13] that. >> Was it full-time back then? Or is it

[42:16] still part-time? >> Well, I think none of these jobs

[42:18] » Yeah, there's never been a full-time. >> They're

[42:20] » Never full-time. >> We don't have any full-times now.

[42:23] » I think we when I first in 2012

[42:27] when I was first on the council, we had um

[42:32] our roads manager was also our operator was on a salary.

[42:37] I think it was like 14,000 a year or something.

[42:40] And was working way I mean, he was probably making like

[42:44] 250 an hour. >> Uh

[42:46] » Cuz he was working a lot. And I think that kind of got us spoiled

[42:50] and the reality hit after he retired.

[42:56] » Okay.

[42:59] » Neither. >> What's the next steps?

[43:03] » Um oh, right. Our next steps is that we will be discussing and taking action on

[43:09] this budget at our

[43:12] regular town council meeting next Wednesday

[43:15] August 19th. Here

[43:19] and on Zoom.

[43:22] So, we have a week to

[43:29] » Oh, we all know it's going to happen. So,

[43:33] It is really important to get our capital funds

[43:37] back up. You know, not only for the road, but to them

[43:41] have you know, we just basically took everything out to

[43:45] fix the culvert. And thank goodness uh you know, in terms

[43:49] of looking for outside money, >> Thank

[43:53] » People people yeah, absolutely people >> Jocelyn for that 500,000 cuz she worked

[43:58] her butt off for you. Big time.

[44:01] The grants are not easy. >> own account that had been I thought that

[44:05] was its own >> And that's I voted last year, though.

[44:09] Had you been saving all this time for that project?

[44:13] » for the for the road. >> Yeah, that for the culvert. I thought

[44:16] that >> That was our capital roads project

[44:18] money. >> Yeah.

[44:19] » That was one of the projects in that. >> Yeah, they took all that money out, too.

[44:23] Yeah. >> That's the same pot that the county

[44:26] voted on. Thanks for the grants. We still have

[44:28] some in there. >> You got

[44:31] » Just one really stupid question. We were talking about commissioners earlier.

[44:36] How come Castle Valley doesn't get their own commissioner?

[44:39] » We did have that money. >> You know, Trish Trish uh Trish she's in

[44:42] your area. is our area. She's kind of got the rural

[44:45] area. So, this piece and then kind of the southern part of Spanish Valley

[44:50] that's in Grand County. So, she's kind of the

[44:53] rural representative and if you have she's really approachable. She'll listen

[44:59] to your concerns. >> I'm just saying we provide all these

[45:02] taxes here in Spanish Valley. We should have our own representation. Uh-huh.

[45:08] » Well, Greg Hales was on there for 4 years.

[45:10] » Yeah. >> So.

[45:12] » And he was the guy I was talking about that was a supervisor working for Trish.

[45:18] » So, you need to get him to run. You should run, George.

[45:21] » Yeah, George, run. >> I'd nominate George.

[45:23] » I know. Second second.

[45:26] Here's the first question. >> All right.

[45:29] » It pays money. >> It does.

[45:32] Hopefully. And like some council positions.

[45:34] » Yeah, yeah.

[45:38] » You mean they don't pay you 150,000 a year to be on the council?

[45:42] » No, I do it out of the goodness of my heart, George.

[45:46] » So, the council doesn't pay

[45:49] » I mean >> It's a

[45:50] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[45:54] But we have a lot >> Yeah, you got really qualified people

[45:57] here who could take that up, you know. >> Mhm.

[46:01] No, we really do. >> Can I I

[46:03] » A lot of them have been very busy and a lot of them have already served in all

[46:07] of these roles. That's part of the problem like where people aren't coming

[46:11] out here to work, they're coming out here to retire and be away from things.

[46:14] » And complain. >> Yeah, but to be left out.

[46:20] » Yeah, someday when I retire I might consider it.

[46:24] » Okay.

[46:27] » Retirement isn't that bad. It is.

[46:31] » My wife would kill me. >> You may or may not be in your entire New

[46:35] York. >> All right, well if we're if we're kind

[46:39] of past our substitute >> Yeah, it was

[46:43] » I'll go ahead and adjourn this public hearing at 7:17

[46:48] p.m. >> Thank you.

[46:50] » Thank you all. Thank you all for coming. Appreciate it.

[46:53] » Yeah. Very

[46:55] » I didn't recognize you out of costume. >> That's right.

260812 Public Hearing on Property Tax Increase

Transcript