[0:19] Okay, everyone, we are ready to start meeting number 1390, city of Tulsa Board of Adjustment. And as a reminder, we are a volunteer board. And before we get started, I'd like to pass the mic over to Nathan for some brief comments. To conduct the public hearing in an orderly manner, we ask that you follow these rules and procedures. Staff will announce the case and read the action requested. The chair will ask if the applicant is present and if there are protestants or interested

[0:49] parties. The applicant will be given time to present the case. The board will then

[0:53] hear from interested parties or Protestants and each party will be given time to speak.

[0:57] Please do not repeat comments of previous speakers. After the board is heard

[1:01] from Protestants or interested parties, the applicant may be allowed time for a rebuttal.

[1:05] If you wish to speak and support our opposition to a case, please make sure you sign in

[1:09] before speaking there's a sign and sheet up at the front desk. Exhibits given

[1:13] to the board will be kept and made a part of the permanent record. During the hearing, the board

[1:17] Board may ask questions of the applicant or interested parties at any time.

[1:20] Staff reports for each application are available as PDFs on the Board of Adjustment webpage

[1:24] at TulsaPlanning.org.

[1:26] After the presentations, the Board will vote to approve or deny the application.

[1:30] If you are approved, staff will give you a copy of your case report following the hearing

[1:34] for your records.

[1:35] This documentation will need to be submitted to the Permit Center as a revision to your

[1:38] current permit application, or included with your submittal for a new permit application.

[1:43] If you submitted your permit through the online portal, please submit revisions in the

[1:46] same manner.

[1:48] When addressing the board, please state your name and address for the record, direct all

[1:52] comments into the microphone.

[1:53] A video of these proceedings is being recorded for future airing on TGA of Channel 24 cable

[1:57] TV.

[1:58] At this time, please silence any electronic devices, and if there are no questions, Madam Chair.

[2:06] Okay.

[2:07] We are ready to get started.

[2:08] I am not normally the chair of this meeting, so a little grace from the audience, and we

[2:12] We will fumble our way through this, but we will get through this.

[2:16] So agenda item number one, minutes from meeting 1389, August 25th, 2026.

[2:22] Madam Chair, I make a motion to approve the minutes for a meeting 1389 from August 25th, 2026.

[2:29] Second.

[2:30] We have a motion, we have a second.

[2:31] All in favor, do you miss?

[2:33] I abstain.

[2:34] Miss Williams?

[2:35] Yes.

[2:36] Mr. Hale?

[2:37] Yes.

[2:37] I also say yes, motion passes.

[2:40] Agenda item number two, Board of Adjustment Case 24087.

[2:46] BOA 24087, located at 2547 South College Avenue East.

[2:51] Applicant Megan Fitch is requesting a special exception to increase the maximum allowable

[2:55] driveway with in the RS2 district.

[2:59] Great, is the applicant present.

[3:03] All right, we'll come to the mic.

[3:04] We have a recording system, so you'll say your name and your address before we begin.

[3:08] and then you can tell us a little bit about your case.

[3:14] Megan Fitch, 24, 2547 South College Avenue, sorry we moved recently.

[3:23] I'm James Fincher, husband.

[3:26] Wonderful.

[3:26] So do we just kind of repeat what's in the application and what we're trying to do?

[3:30] Briefly.

[3:30] Yes, please.

[3:31] Okay.

[3:31] So basically we have a driveway.

[3:33] I want to report a lot there.

[3:34] with driveway that's already existed towards the back and the front side of the house.

[3:38] There's no driveway we're requesting permission to put a small circle drive there and we have

[3:43] plenty of comparables in the neighborhood that demonstrate where that similar scenario

[3:48] with the circle drive and the side drive have been there.

[3:51] So it does exceed that initial limit of overall size but the lot's sizeable enough that it

[3:56] doesn't obstruct any kind of right-of-pack, right-of-way or anything like that.

[4:01] Another thing to consider is our house is kind of on a hill.

[4:05] And so the driveway that enters from 26th, we enter in the back of our house.

[4:09] So anytime we're bringing in groceries or anything, we have to park in the back, climb up the stairs.

[4:13] So it would be nice to have a circle drive in the front to be able to.

[4:17] For groceries as well as like our neighbors across the street have college kiddos or no high school.

[4:23] But they park in the street a lot, totally fine get it.

[4:26] But that if we have any guests, there's literally one lane singular.

[4:30] So it helped for guests as well.

[4:32] So it's practical and that neighbor, along with another neighbor,

[4:36] have actually advocated for this driveway to be put in place because they feel

[4:40] like it's, it's always congested with so many cars along the street there.

[4:47] Any questions from our board?

[4:51] I have a little map that I made by myself that I extended all the exit.

[4:56] I provided access to where all the circle drives.

[5:00] Regent, exceeding the thing are near us. I don't know if you want to see it, or if you just want to. Yeah, if you can hit it to Aaron right here. So

[5:12] one of the intent of from my understanding on the zoning code for reducing or limiting the curb sizes so that there's not a lot of paving in the front yard. Would you be opposed if we were if we were to approve it with the condition, would you be opposed to.

[5:34] You're putting the condition on it that you have to install landscaping kind of similar to your number 11 and number 4 that you've submitted.

[5:42] It's actually part of the process.

[5:44] The house to be frank in the front means a little love when we bought it.

[5:49] And so this is the first step because you can't really do landscaping until you do the driveway.

[5:53] So it's all part of beautifying the yard.

[5:55] We purchased a home April May and that was our intent to first get the driveway and that's that we're putting quite a bit of an investment to completely beautify the front of the house.

[6:05] So you're not opposed to that condition?

[6:06] No, we are not opposed to that condition.

[6:08] Okay.

[6:08] Because I mean it just helps kind of screen from the street view.

[6:12] Sure.

[6:13] Okay.

[6:15] Any other questions?

[6:21] I think maybe piggybacking on what Mr. Hale was saying, is this the general landscaping plan that you were thinking about?

[6:31] No, that doesn't demonstrate the landscaping. That's just the layout of the property.

[6:36] But the front of the house, which is on the left side there, will have new sod put in.

[6:42] And all of the sides of the house and the front there will have new shrubs and new plants.

[6:47] The trees are right too, very good for more than two, but we three in the front side of the house are very

[6:53] pealing. We want to keep those.

[6:55] Okay.

[6:57] Thank you.

[7:01] Is that it from us?

[7:02] You may be seated.

[7:03] Thank you.

[7:04] Do we have any interested parties?

[7:07] Okay, with that, we'll move to discussion.

[7:13] I appreciate that they already done a lot of the work to see how it fits in the neighborhood.

[7:18] And so like how that's laid out in the map that the applicant just added, but also in our exhibit 2.11.

[7:29] Yeah, I mean there's quite a few examples of this already in that neighborhood kind of looked around.

[7:35] I'm fine with this with that condition that I've talked about with the landscape.

[7:41] Wonderful. Anyone feel strong enough to make a motion?

[7:45] Madam Chair and Board of Adjustment, case 24087, I move to approve a special exception to increase the maximum driver width in the RS-2 district from 27 feet to 38 feet in the right of way, for the conceptual plan shown on page 2.13 of the agenda packet, subject to the following conditions that the island created by the drive will be landscaped with trees and at least a minimum of one tree.

[8:13] second. Oh, I got finished that out. The board finds out that they were

[8:17] requests a special exception will be in harmony with the spirit and in the code

[8:20] and will not be in juries to the neighborhood or otherwise detrimental to the

[8:23] public welfare.

[8:27] Okay, we have a motion to wave a second. Second. Wonderful. Miss

[8:33] Williams. Yes. Mr. Hale. Yes. Miss Dumas. Yes. I also vote yes. Motion passes.

[8:40] Moving on to agenda item number three board of judgment case two four zero eight

[8:45] 888.

[8:46] B-O-A-24088, located at 1241-5 East 18th Place South, applicant William Beatles is requesting

[8:54] a special exception to permit a carport in the street yard and street setback in the RS-3

[8:59] district.

[9:02] Okay, is the applicant present?

[9:03] Yes.

[9:04] Wonderful.

[9:04] Come on up to the mic.

[9:05] Give us your name, address, and tell us a little bit about your case.

[9:10] I'm William Beatles at 1241-5 East 18th Place, and I'm just winning a carport.

[9:17] My vehicle's a little, I have a one car garage, but it's small, so it won't fit in there's a, so I just want to

[9:25] Carport out front there, so I'll protect the from the hail and bad weather in the winter.

[9:32] Now I know several other neighbors have car ports in the neighborhood, so

[9:39] Wonderful. Have you spoken with any of your neighbors about this? Yes

[9:43] I

[9:43] And when I'm had, you got the letters, the letters sent out and when I'm replied, then

[9:49] I told the other ones, but a lot of them are Spanish and do not understand English.

[9:54] So, but no negative feedback.

[9:59] No, negative feedback.

[10:00] Any other questions?

[10:09] Good over here. Okay, pretty straightforward. Thank you so much, sir. Do we have any interested parties? Protestants? Okay, with that, we'll move into discussion.

[10:27] Not all at once now. No

[10:35] questions

[10:43] over here. I think there's an addition to the letter of support. There's also

[10:50] So plenty of documented or it's been demonstrated that there are other

[10:56] carports in the area and it wouldn't attract from, you know, the purpose and intent

[11:00] of the zoning code to maintain the character of the neighborhood.

[11:05] Great. Ms. Williams?

[11:08] I feel the same way.

[11:09] Great. Mr. Hale.

[11:12] Oh, no comment.

[11:13] No comment.

[11:15] Does anyone feel strong enough to make a motion?

[11:16] Well,

[11:22] I could let's get over here.

[11:28] Okay, Madam Chair.

[11:30] Thank you, sir.

[11:34] MBO8K's 24088, I move to approve a special exception

[11:37] to permit a cardboard in the street setback

[11:39] and the street yard in the RS3 district

[11:41] for the conceptual plan shown on page 3.11 at 3.15.

[11:46] The board finds that the request to special exception

[11:48] will be at harmony with the spirit

[11:49] and in the intent of the code

[11:50] and will not be interested to the neighborhood

[11:52] or the wise detrimental to public welfare.

[11:55] We have a motion to wave a second.

[11:57] Second.

[11:58] Great, Mr. Hale.

[11:59] No.

[12:00] Ms. Dumas.

[12:01] Yes.

[12:02] Ms. Williams.

[12:02] Yes.

[12:03] I'll also vote yes, so it passes.

[12:07] Moving on to item number four on our agenda.

[12:11] Board of Adjustment Case 24089.

[12:14] BOA 24089.

[12:16] Location is 11044 East 14th Street South.

[12:20] Applicant Edward Welch is requesting a variance of the minimum open space per unit requirement for a non-conforming lot in the RS-3 district.

[12:28] Wonderful. It's the applicant present. Great. Go ahead and come up to the mic.

[12:35] Name address and a little bit about your case.

[12:48] Yes, my name is Edward Welch.

[12:50] And I purchased some lots back in 21 and we have the file for permits to build on there.

[12:57] And one of the things is the lots are extremely small, especially for RS-3 zoning.

[13:04] This lots of size is only 3,983 square feet, which makes it very difficult to build any structures on that lot at all.

[13:12] Trying to maintain the 50% open space requirement.

[13:17] Mr. Walch, quickly, can you state your address for the record?

[13:20] One, two, three, zero, seven, east, 88, court, north, Oluasso.

[13:24] Thank you, you can continue.

[13:25] Sure. So we've made plans for that specific lot size, trying to minimize as much as we can,

[13:33] but keeping the three bedroom to bath for single family homes, which is the desired family homes in Tulsa.

[13:42] We are currently at 44% open space with those requirements, so we're barely over.

[13:51] We meet all the setback requirements.

[13:53] We meet all of the requirements for the cities that's so far.

[13:58] The only thing we're violating is that open space requirement.

[14:01] So we're asking for a variance to approve that.

[14:08] Okay.

[14:10] Any questions from our board members?

[14:15] Separate on several different portions of your application.

[14:18] You mentioned the house is slightly larger home.

[14:21] You know what the adjacent homes are, square footage size and what this one is.

[14:25] They are about 1,200 to 1,300, 1,400 square feet, but the footprint of the homes they have garages.

[14:34] We've taken the garage out of this to minimize the footprint.

[14:38] We've also done a lot of work with the architecture and planning of the home.

[14:42] I own the home directly to the right of the lot as you're facing from the street.

[14:48] So we use that home as a model for the blueprints.

[14:53] We've made the home that we're going to build exactly the same width we use the same roof pitch

[14:58] We're going to use the same materials we're going to use

[15:00] We're saying design structure or integrity to make the home match exactly the other homes in the neighborhood. So from the street, it looks exactly like the other homes. It will just be set back farther a little bit longer. But the width of the fascia, the roof pitch, everything we designed was designed off of the home that currently exists to make it match the neighborhood. Excuse me. I've got a kind of horse that I have lost.

[15:29] I lost my voice, so bear with me.

[15:33] So what was the square footage of the other houses you were thinking?

[15:37] There are 1200 square feet minus the garage.

[15:39] So the garage is the one, so probably with the garage, the right at maybe, you know, right

[15:47] at 1,400, 1,500 square feet, and what is the one that you're proposing?

[15:52] 1,800 square feet, 1,820, something like that.

[15:55] So, it still gives us 44% of the open space were at 56% over, instead of 50%.

[16:04] That's with the driveway being a little bit larger because the RS3 requirements for

[16:10] driveways now is more than that neighborhood, so the driver has to be bigger, which made

[16:15] it another, to make the driveway requirement, it took away the open space requirement, so

[16:20] that was one of the more difficult things to do.

[16:23] Requirements for now, driveways in Harris 3 is 18 feet, the other ones are like at 14 feet.

[16:28] So,

[16:33] you're saying yours is going to be about 1,800 square feet, is that with the garage?

[16:37] So, really we're going to be about 2,000.

[16:40] So, it doesn't have a garage at all.

[16:42] It doesn't have a garage at all.

[16:42] Very good. So, what I did was, when I was thinking about this, I went to the neighborhood,

[16:48] many of the neighbors have abandoned their garages and done, basically, sighting up front.

[16:54] I have four photos if you'd like to see of going through the neighborhood and just on that one street

[17:00] There's because the houses are so small a lot of the neighbors are abandoning the garage

[17:05] Siding over the garage door and making it look like there's no garage in the home anyway

[17:10] So as far as what I'm doing will not

[17:13] Determine from the neighborhood as far as the flow of the neighborhood or what it looks like from the street because there's several homes in there

[17:20] That have already abandoned the garage it'll look just like those

[17:27] Any feedback from your neighbors?

[17:29] We had five different negative feedbacks saying they do not want us to build.

[17:34] I don't know if you guys have seen those.

[17:37] They all have the current theme of it was kind of weird.

[17:40] There's going to be not enough parking if I build there.

[17:44] There's going to be a lot of the write-ups where we're going to use this for a Section 8 rental home,

[17:52] which is not the case.

[17:54] I think every right, so the next, the neighbor across the street has been parking there and I think she's going to lose her parking place.

[18:03] She was one of the people that wrote this up, so the comments after she came over to talk to me was, I'm going to lose my parking place. Well, I can't help you.

[18:11] Anyway, so there's a lot of write-ups that we're going to lose parking in the neighborhood. That lot's been there forever.

[18:17] However, I didn't respond to any of them because I really didn't know how to or what

[18:22] I needed to say about that.

[18:24] A lot of write-ups for you're going to use that for Section 8 rental.

[18:29] I'm not.

[18:29] If the plan is to sell that property after it's completed.

[18:33] So I don't know how to reply to any of the feedback.

[18:37] So a lot of them were, there's not going to be a garage there, but once again, there's

[18:43] so many neighborhoods that have been in their garages,

[18:46] and it just put sighting across the garage door,

[18:49] it would look just like that house and were completed.

[18:51] And we've put a lot of effort in the plans

[18:54] and designing to make sure it matches that,

[18:56] because I'm gonna own a home right next door to it,

[18:59] and I don't want to detriment that home

[19:02] in the neighborhood, I want it to match it, so.

[19:04] What's the size of the house next door that you have?

[19:06] It's like right at 1,200 in 50 square feet

[19:09] with the one car garage.

[19:11] So it is bigger than the other houses?

[19:15] It is bigger, yes.

[19:16] This house is definitely bigger than the other houses.

[19:18] The intent was to try to make the house in three bedroom too bad because that is the most needed

[19:28] houses for single-family homes in Tulsa, and we're trying to build a house that can be sold to a single-family as well we're trying to do.

[19:39] Any other questions?

[19:41] So I think you mentioned purchased the property in 2021.

[19:45] Yes.

[19:46] When you purchased it, did you know the zoning code?

[19:50] I did not.

[19:51] I did not.

[19:52] I did not know the zoning code's restrictions when I bought it.

[19:55] In fact, when I purchased the home, I was buying it as a rental.

[20:00] And it came with the two lots. I'm going to go to closing. I signed on three different properties, two lots, and that home.

[20:08] I guess there was some history from the planning office. I got some feedback. It was originally that the neighbor was platted under a PUD to try to varicate it, changed as later. And I guess they never followed through and got it approved as a PUD. So eventually the city came back and zoned at RS3. And just FYI,

[20:29] I look going to the neighborhood and looking at my house compared to some of those.

[20:33] I'm sure that the majority of those homes in there with the garage are over the 50% the houses are very large compared to a lot.

[20:42] So yeah,

[20:47] I mean, the zone three right now, minimum of 6900 square feet for a zone three lot.

[20:54] So this one being at 39 and 80 makes it very restrictive on what you can build there.

[20:59] So

[21:01] because this is a variance that would require a hardship, can you kind of just reiterate what the hardship might be?

[21:08] The hardship is that the lots are just really, really small to build almost anything.

[21:12] That's the hardship.

[21:14] You know, a lot any bigger than that and we would be at the future percent.

[21:18] Like I said, we're almost there any what?

[21:20] We're at 44%.

[21:21] So this 40% open space.

[21:24] We're barely over by 6%.

[21:27] There's still plenty of yard, the effort we put into making it match and it just barely

[21:36] being over.

[21:37] We meet all the setback requirements for the property.

[21:40] We're in no easements of the property, so we're not violating anything other than it's

[21:45] just being a little bit too big.

[21:48] Any other questions?

[21:52] This is more for staff, but I feel like this might be a good time to ask it before you all

[21:57] walk away.

[21:57] Sure, so could you clarify a little bit like this was a PUD and then the city we zoned it to RS3 and

[22:06] So I think what we determined as we were going through this was the plat and this neighborhood

[22:13] None of those lots meet the RS3 requirements. I think it was zoned RS3 and there was a PUD proposed at the time that this was being

[22:21] Developed what didn't ever happen was the council never approved the PUD and an ordinance was never created

[22:27] but somehow the plat continued and was filed and the neighborhood was built.

[22:32] So there was an issue with, I guess, the records of what had happened with that PUD.

[22:38] And there was an assumption at some point while the plat was moving forward that it was approved.

[22:42] And that's what resulted in lots being platted that were way below the minimums that were acquired by the zoning district.

[22:50] And today our map just doesn't reflect that PUD that was supposedly associated with the project.

[22:57] So regardless of outcome, I mean, there's all of these lots would be subject to that non-conforming lot provision at this point

[23:04] Which establishes that 50% open space requirement?

[23:09] So you're saying that most of those homes are violating it that thing anyway?

[23:13] I mean it could be I don't know the facts of like the existing open space on any of these properties

[23:18] It certainly looks like they've been built out maybe beyond what that 50% will allow

[23:22] Without looking at plans. It's hard to know but yeah

[23:26] Okay, it is a very unique situation where this was all proposed under a planning and development that just was never finally approved and given an ordinance, so.

[23:34] Okay.

[23:36] Thank you.

[23:37] I mean, last questions.

[23:39] I mean, if we go back and build a two bedroom with one car garage, it's going to be almost be the same size anyway.

[23:44] But the versatility and functionality of a three bedroom, two bedroom house and Tulsa is a lot more beneficial to the inventory muscle realtor.

[23:53] and I know the inventory for these homes are just almost non-existent in Tulsa right now so it's

[23:58] more beneficial to have the no garage and bigger home than have a two bedroom with a one-car garage

[24:05] as far as what we can do selling it to single families. And if these were the same sizes the rest

[24:11] are as three or the average it would be half of what we would actually give to you. Yeah I mean at 69

[24:16] on our square foot. We'd have 70, almost 65 or 70% on a regular 6900 square foot a lot, so.

[24:22] Okay. Thank you. You may be seated. Thank you.

[24:26] We have anyone here to speak on this case today? Wonderful. Come on up.

[24:45] You'll state your name address.

[24:49] On Pam Carter, my address is 11045 East 14th Street, Tulsa 74128.

[25:01] Mr. Welch says that his house meets the existing, well, looks like everybody else's house, but it doesn't because there's a garage on every property. And there's very few people that have gone in and made it another room.

[25:25] In fact, I can only think about two.

[25:28] I didn't go through and count how many houses have gone and made another room out of their garage.

[25:35] But it's very few.

[25:39] And everybody has a garage there.

[25:41] And most people utilize their garage like it's supposed to be.

[25:48] Another thing he was saying the properties are 1,400 feet, my house straight across the street

[25:56] from his is 1020 and that includes the garage.

[26:02] And then I also have another house that's two doors down from him and it's 1220.

[26:09] So they're not as big as what he's saying and he wants to build a lot bigger home on that property.

[26:20] Another thing is those are called patio homes. So they're shotgun type homes and everybody has windows and sliding glass door on one side of the house.

[26:33] And on his plan, he's got windows on both sides of the house.

[26:39] And so I really don't feel like he went to very much trouble trying to match the house that he's going to build with the other houses.

[26:49] And especially if he owns the house next door, he had, you know, utilization inside and outside and those are two bedroom homes.

[27:00] homes. Both of my houses are two bedroom homes. There's very few three bedroom homes and

[27:06] they're on the other other street and they are basically very small when they put three

[27:15] bedrooms in a 10 20 space.

[27:20] Okay. That's basically all I have to say. That's right. Thank

[27:24] you. Okay. Do we have anyone else here to speak on this case? Would the applicant like

[27:30] I'm going to come back up after that.

[27:31] You may.

[27:36] Mr. Chair, I don't think we've got the name of the second

[27:38] gentleman who spoke.

[27:40] Yeah.

[27:46] Josh Mannis, 3507, 4 West, 171st Street, South

[27:49] Bristol, Clawm 7401.

[27:52] Basically, like you said, it's a partner.

[27:54] OK, great.

[27:55] If you just want to react to anything that was said just then,

[27:57] you don't have to restate anything else.

[27:59] Right.

[27:59] I was just the window thing.

[28:00] There was a couple of write-ups on that.

[28:02] The reason we have to put windows on both sides is because we're

[28:06] going from two bedroom to three bedroom and we have to have a window for fire egress.

[28:11] If we put three bedrooms in there, you have bedrooms on both sides, you've got to have windows

[28:14] on both sides so you can get out in case of fire.

[28:18] Also the flow of the neighborhood, there's a lot of the homes, probably 70% homes have

[28:24] exactly the same fascia, but the other 20% don't have the pitch roof in one direction, they

[28:31] have pitch roofs going the other way.

[28:33] So there are about 20% of the homes that do not match exactly that.

[28:38] I tried to match it by the exacting with proof pitch, everything.

[28:44] So this house will look like all the other homes in the neighborhood when we're done.

[28:52] As far as it being that deep by the time you put the privacy fence up,

[28:56] you can't see how deep the home will go anyway.

[28:58] So from the street, it'll look just like everything else.

[29:01] Anything else I'm forgetting?

[29:02] One of the reasons why we didn't really respond to the objections to it, most of them were more geared towards keeping us from building there and not really didn't have much to do with the variance itself that we're applying for so we didn't really know how to handle that without upsetting somebody worse than what it was.

[29:18] Okay, thank you.

[29:21] That puts us in discussion.

[29:25] I think we need to mention we have what three letters of opposition.

[29:28] Yeah, except that this is the one where two are from the same person.

[29:48] I mean, I'll start out. I'm on the fence about it.

[29:50] But certainly there is hardship here, a lot of sizes are already non-conforming too.

[30:00] To the zoning, but the size of it does seem larger than surrounding, and it seems like, you know, just napkin math. If you shave off five feet, you five feet in length, which, you know, however, you do that, take it out of the living room, take it out of the back bedroom, however, whatever. You get to the open space that's needed. I think it's five feet one and a half inches. So, I mean, and that still takes you down to 16.

[30:29] 53 square feet so it seems larger than I agree it's the neighbors it does seem

[30:36] larger than it really needs to be for the maybe not needs to be but to match

[30:42] kind of the existing would you be open to taking it down he wouldn't you know I

[30:48] don't think you'd need it would he need a variance at that point that's just if

[30:51] it didn't pass today that would be the option right yeah I mean if it gets voted

[30:55] no on I mean you just go back and you revise your floor plan to be smaller and

[31:12] I

[31:15] agree that the lot sizes are unique and provide a unique hardship and the ability

[31:25] to not need the variance seems like it is there.

[31:30] There is an ability to meet the zoning code, I think the difference of needing a variance

[31:40] versus not needing a variance, Kevin, as you mentioned, the five feet, whether that's

[31:44] coming from the back or the side, to me, seems like a market issue and a desire to be more

[31:55] desirable in the current market, which I totally understand.

[31:59] And then I believe takes the hardship to a financial hardship, as opposed to the lot size hardship.

[32:10] Well, I think we have our, we

[32:26] can't, sorry, Mr. Hale, are you going to make a motion?

[32:30] Yeah, Madam Chair and Board of Adjustment Case, 24089.

[32:34] I move to deny a variance to decrease the minimum open space per unit requirement for

[32:39] We're non-conforming a lot in RS-3 district from 50% to 47% of the lot area.

[32:45] The board finds the hardship to be not sufficient.

[32:50] I have a motion, do I have a second?

[32:53] Second.

[32:55] Mr. Dumas.

[32:58] Yes.

[32:59] Miss Williams, yes.

[33:01] Mr. Hale.

[33:01] Yes.

[33:02] I also vote yes.

[33:04] A motion is denied.

[33:05] Moving to the next case.

[33:09] Item number five on our agenda board of adjustment case, 2, 4, 0, 9, 0.

[33:15] POA 24090, located at 1116 South 129th East Avenue.

[33:20] Applicant summit construction group is requesting a special exception to allow

[33:24] building service use and a warehouse use in the CES district.

[33:28] Hi, my name is Alan Holcomb.

[33:30] I represent Semiconstruction Group, address 51.03, South Sheridan Road, sweet 614,

[33:38] Tulsa Oklahoma 74145.

[33:42] Great, tell us a little bit about your case.

[33:44] Okay, so my client is LMS overhead door LLC, I should say potential client, they own I believe it's an acre lot at 1116 East 129 as you described and on your on your board you can see the structure on the lower side of that that isn't existing structure we propose to build 50 feet from that structure to the north.

[34:13] with a 6,500 square foot warehouse space.

[34:19] We know that it's zoned C3 residential,

[34:21] and I'm sorry, not residential,

[34:23] but restaurant and retail.

[34:25] So we have, we've submitted to you

[34:29] our design on the warehouse,

[34:31] and that's exactly what it will be.

[34:33] The existing structure they have now has offices

[34:35] and also warehouse space.

[34:38] This will be strictly warehouse.

[34:39] house. So we propose that five, ten years down the road that you can see in our elevation

[34:46] drawings that we're preparing this structure for retail space once they sell it. What

[34:53] they choose to keep it in turn and into retail space, you have five units that are

[34:58] the prophet or or or

[35:00] 20-foot wide in the depth of that unit 65 feet. We are going to rough in plumbing for every single unit, not tied into the sewer yet, but in anticipation that when it sells, every unit that becomes retail space will have a full bath and like a lounge area for each retail space. So, we think we have a good plan and we're asking that you allow us to build this with that in mind. If you look at the drawing that you have now,

[35:31] So that's how it would look once they sell the property or if they choose to keep it and convert it into retail space themselves.

[35:39] That's how it would look in your elevation that you're showing right now.

[35:45] There you go.

[35:46] So

[35:48] again, that would be proposed, that's how it would be that would be the selling point at some point five years, 10 years, 15 years down the road, or they keep it and they convert it or they continue to keep it as a warehouse space.

[36:05] The surrounding areas directly across the street from this one is I believe a plumbing supply of something along those lines.

[36:12] It's a plumbing supply house on the corner.

[36:16] You have little sheds that are being sold.

[36:20] Of course, that's retail, correct.

[36:22] There's a car lot we do have one letter

[36:26] from the people directly across from this lot

[36:29] that supports what we're doing.

[36:32] And we've had no opposition to our request.

[36:39] They currently operate out of the building

[36:41] that's directly south.

[36:42] Yes, sir, and what are they what what is the business they're business of LNS overhead

[36:51] Overhead doors LLC so they just need space to

[36:55] Simmelize coming in going out dropping their staff comes in all the parking area will be at the existing place

[37:02] so

[37:03] All they see that was it's concrete. It's just

[37:06] Simmelize come in turn around

[37:08] They'll be a loading dock, offload, their crews will come in with their trucks and loads.

[37:13] So it's just that kind of deal.

[37:18] Any other questions for the applicant?

[37:21] Okay, you may be seated.

[37:23] Thank you.

[37:24] Do we have anyone here today who would like to speak on this case?

[37:28] Seeing no hands, we'll move into discussion.

[37:36] Yeah, I mean, they do have a letter and support, I don't have any issues with this.

[37:41] Yeah, and I just look at the land use and that designation is multiple use.

[37:47] And so I think that guides us to permit multiple uses.

[37:53] So yeah, great.

[37:56] So once I make a motion,

[38:00] you can do it, girl.

[38:03] Madam Chair and BOA case 24-090, I move to approve a special exception to allow to build

[38:09] in service and warehouse use in the CS district. Her conceptual plans shown on 5

[38:20] .10-5

[38:30] .25.

[38:38] The board finds that the requested special exception will be in harmony with the spirit

[38:41] and intent of the code or not be interest to the neighborhood or otherwise detrimental to

[38:45] the public welfare.

[38:47] We have a motion.

[38:48] Do we have a second?

[38:48] So I can point the exhibit you got if you want to you could add the

[38:55] additional exhibit you received at today's meeting okay is that is that the

[39:00] renderings yeah I mean that's what we're looking at is the new exhibit that was

[39:03] submitted so I don't think we need to tie that to it okay that maybe that happened

[39:08] maybe it doesn't sure I mean white what's in front of us right now it's just a

[39:11] warehouse so to me it doesn't sure we should tie that okay yeah I just wanted to

[39:16] to you just so you knew this wasn't part of those packet drawings.

[39:19] Right, right, right, okay.

[39:20] Thank you.

[39:21] Okay, so motion as it stands, do we have a second?

[39:24] Second.

[39:26] And all in favor, Ms. Dumas?

[39:28] Yes.

[39:28] Ms. Williams.

[39:29] Yes.

[39:29] Mr. Hale.

[39:30] Yes.

[39:30] I also vote yes.

[39:32] Motion carries, moving on to the next case.

[39:35] Item number six, Board of Adjustment Case 2409-1.

[39:41] BOA 2409-1, located at 8404 South Union Avenue.

[39:45] Applicant Natalie Cornette is requesting

[39:47] requesting a special exception to allow an outdoor assembly and entertainment use in the AG district.

[39:53] Good afternoon, Natalie Cornette, 2727 East 21st Street.

[39:59] We are requesting-

[40:00] A special exception to permit a existing sports field to be used for outdoor assembly and entertainment.

[40:09] The property is located at the northwest corner of 86th and union. The owner who owns this field also owns the adjacent property to the north.

[40:22] if you'll go just to yes them. So he owns the total of 80 acres, the large

[40:28] tract as well as the sports field. The field was originally constructed for his

[40:33] private use. He's got kids who are very active in competitive sports and he

[40:38] built a soccer field for them to be able to get private practices and training

[40:43] sessions on the field. It is a state-of-the-art facility and so he thought why not

[40:50] open this up and allow it to be used by local clubs or you know his if his

[40:56] son sports team has gets rained out at their public field they can come play

[41:01] here or practice here or allow private training sessions for other team

[41:06] members things like that of that nature. So the field itself is permitted by

[41:11] right for private use we're requesting that we can open it up to allow the

[41:14] community to use it as well. I'll go quickly through just some photos to get

[41:19] you oriented. This is 86th Street. We're looking south down Union. If you'll go to the next one,

[41:25] please. Looking north down Union. Next one, please. This is directly across the street. This is the

[41:32] Muscogee Nation Head Start facility. This is to our south. There's a vacant church. It's not used,

[41:41] but there's a church facility there. This is facing west on 86th Street. So we're

[41:49] looking, I'm sorry there's a glare here, but we're looking, I believe, towards the sports

[41:54] field. Thank you. Next one, please. And then looking east towards Union. Next one, please.

[42:03] So this is what the entry, the entry gate to the field looks like. You would come down

[42:09] 86th Street North and turn into that gated area and there's a parking lot there.

[42:16] Next one,

[42:17] the construction that's active, that's the property owner's private residence that's being

[42:22] constructed today and then you'll also, if you go back up actually, you'll see just to the left

[42:29] of the screen, you'll see the lights and those are the lights of the field. Next one, please.

[42:36] This is, there's significant Birmingham that's been installed to shield it from Union Avenue,

[42:43] you really can't see it at all from Union Avenue. So this is the view of the Birmingham.

[42:47] and then the next one and then this is looking at if you're on Union looking towards

[42:55] where the field is located next and I think that's it. Okay, so we do have lights as I mentioned

[43:04] where those are really intended just for if we have a fall game and a good start at seven but we

[43:10] don't intend for them to be on past 10 pm and are willing to accept that as a condition.

[43:15] There are no bleachers or anything for large crowds of folks.

[43:19] It's going to be parents coming and setting up a lawn chair if they do want to watch a practice or a game or something like that.

[43:25] So I'm happy to answer questions that the board has for me, but

[43:29] we believe this is in harmony with the spirit and ten of the code and will not be

[43:33] injurious to the neighborhood.

[43:35] And I will say that we have spoken with our residential neighbors on the other side of

[43:41] Mr. Caswell's property to the north and address any questions or comments that they had.

[43:49] Great. Any questions from the board?

[43:52] What are the anticipated normal hours of operation?

[43:56] So it's really not a commercial enterprise that we would have business hours, but

[44:00] you know, games or practices would be happening in the evenings or

[44:05] or after school on the weekends during the school year,

[44:10] during the summer, it could be, you know,

[44:12] any time, really.

[44:16] So an outdoor assembly and entertainment use

[44:19] in the AG district is very broad.

[44:21] Right.

[44:22] Does your client have any issues with that's limitating

[44:24] or limiting it to specifically an outdoor sports complex?

[44:29] Nope, not at all.

[44:29] That's our intent.

[44:30] We don't want any of the other uses

[44:32] that are in that use category.

[44:34] So this sports field,

[44:36] It has it's it's designed for soccer. There are some football goals there too

[44:41] But just for us and sports field that's perfectly acceptable

[44:44] Yes, I think that concern there would be you know if we approve it open-ended and it's down the road

[44:50] What does it has the freedom to become something? I mean we tie it to the exhibits, but I mean if it's not specific then

[45:00] Any other questions?

[45:03] Okay, thank you. Thank you. We have anyone here to speak on this case today. Great, we'll move into discussion.

[45:13] Thanks to your questions. Lead me to believe you're okay with this. You might put some conditions on it. Yeah, well, I mean, I guess I would ask that design. Does it need the conditions, you think? I mean, it's tying it to the exhibits, but. Yeah, I think, I mean, I think if you wanted to say it as a part of your motion, that it be conditioned only for the purposes of an outdoor sports field.

[45:34] that would be probably more, you know, long-term kind of buttoning it up versus the conceptual plan.

[45:43] Is there anything in the zoning code that limits the light at 10 o'clock or whatever?

[45:51] I mean we have a nuisance ordinance that would kick in if they were, you know, keeping them on or spilling into their neighbor's properties at times that weren't permissible.

[46:00] The zoning code does not regulate sports-filled lighting, it's more dictated by nuisance ordinances.

[46:07] You

[46:14] guys okay with those conditions?

[46:15] Hi.

[46:15] Yeah, I'm going to go with that.

[46:16] Okay, great.

[46:18] Madam Chair, I'm Board of Adjustment Case 209-1.

[46:21] I move to approve a special exception to allow and outdoors assembly and entertainment use in the AG district for the conceptual plan shown on page 6.12 of the agenda packet subject to the following condition.

[46:34] the use be limited to an outdoor sports complex.

[46:39] The board finds that the request of special exception will be in harmony with the spirit and in ten of the code and will not be in juries to the neighborhood or otherwise detrimental to the public welfare.

[46:49] We have a motion to wait a second.

[46:51] Second.

[46:52] Two seconds.

[46:53] There you go.

[46:55] Mr. Hale.

[46:56] Yes.

[46:56] Ms. Williams.

[46:57] Yes.

[46:57] Ms. Dumas.

[46:58] Yes.

[46:58] I also vote yes.

[47:00] Motion carries.

[47:01] to agenda item number seven, Board of Adjustment Case 24092.

[47:06] BOA 24092, located at 2119 East 30th Place South, applicant Natalie Cornette,

[47:12] Ellen DeTrick is requesting a variance to reduce the 15-foot side-set back in the R.E. District.

[47:18] All right, hello again Natalie Cornette, 2727 East 21st Street.

[47:23] This is really a curative case, the subject property was, is an existing home

[47:29] room that was constructed between 1995 and 1996. In December of 1995, probably I'm guessing

[47:38] sometimes between the time the house was permitted and construction was completed, the

[47:44] property was re-zoned from RS-3, I believe, excuse me, RS-1 to RE. So it was constructed in

[47:55] accordance with RS-1 to have five foot side setbacks.

[47:58] RE has 15 foot side setbacks.

[48:02] The property is currently under contract to be sold,

[48:05] and this was flagged as we did not meet the zoning requirements for RE

[48:10] for the existing house.

[48:12] So we're requesting a variance of the side setbacks for both sides.

[48:17] On the east side, we encroach the largest encroachment is six feet

[48:24] and we're six feet from the property line and then on the west side there's a

[48:29] port of Cache and that is 10 feet from the property line. So the hardship in

[48:34] this case is we have a non-conforming lot and it was re-zoned while the house

[48:38] was being constructed and so we'd request the variance of both of those side

[48:44] setbacks and I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you. Any questions for her?

[48:53] Okay I think we're good for now. Thank you. Anyone here to speak on this case?

[48:57] With that moment of discussion, seems pretty cut and dry to me.

[49:03] It seems like a clerical. I mean it's been operating for 20 years.

[49:08] Yeah, yeah.

[49:11] Anominee, we're all supposed to do that.

[49:13] Oh, no, you do not.

[49:16] Madam Chair and BOA case 24092.

[49:19] I move to approve a variance to reduce the 15-foot side.

[49:23] Setback in the RE district from 15 feet to 6 feet from the eastern property line

[49:27] and from 15 to 9 feet from the Western property line.

[49:31] For the conceptual plan shown on page 7.12,

[49:36] the board finds the hardship to be

[49:37] that this is a non-conforming lot

[49:39] and it was re-zoned during construction.

[49:43] Thank you.

[49:44] In Grenade to Variance, the board finds

[49:45] that the following facts favorable to the property only

[49:47] have been established, that the physical surrounding shape

[49:50] and topographical conditions of the septic property

[49:52] would result in unnecessary hardships

[49:55] or practical difficulties for the property owner as distinguished.

[50:00] From a mere inconvenience and a stricter letter of the regulations were, if the strict letter of the regulations were carried out, the literal enforcement of the septic zoning code revision is not necessary to achieve the provisions intended purpose. See the conditions that the conditions leading to the need of the requested variance on unique to the septic property and not applicable generally to other property within the same zoning classification, D that the alleged practical difficulty or unnecessary

[50:29] necessary hardship was not created or self-imposed by the current property owner, e, that the

[50:34] variance to be granted is the minimum variance that will afford relief, f, that the variance

[50:40] to be granted will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood in which the subject

[50:46] property is located nor substantially or permanently impaired use or development of adjacent property

[50:53] the ANG, the variance to be granted will not cause substantial detriment to the public good,

[50:59] or impair the purposes, spirit, and intent of this zoning code, or the comprehensive plan.

[51:07] Well done. Do we have a second?

[51:08] Second.

[51:10] Okay. We'll move down the line. Mr. Dumas.

[51:12] Yes.

[51:13] Ms. Williams?

[51:14] Yes.

[51:15] Mr. Hale?

[51:15] Yes.

[51:16] I also vote yes.

[51:18] Passes.

[51:19] Agenda item number eight, Board of Adjustment Case 24093.

[51:25] BOA 24093, located at 1570 East 22nd Place, South.

[51:31] Applicant Joshua Friesenhan is requesting a variance to reduce the 25 foot rear setback in the RS2 district.

[51:38] The applicant present, oh there we are.

[51:40] Great.

[51:41] Name, address and tell us about your case.

[51:43] Joshua Friesenhan, 921 East 36th Street.

[51:47] Great.

[51:47] So we're requesting a variance and is for a rear setback, but project-wise is

[51:55] basically to attach a patio into the home into an existing accessory building.

[52:01] So on the elevations there on the right is the existing home that we're

[52:06] tying the patio into and then on the left is the accessory building that is

[52:10] actually in that rear setback. And so attaching the patio to both the home and the accessory

[52:19] building is where we're running into the fact that then it is considered part of the house

[52:25] structure which would be then in the rear setback. So we're requesting a variance to attach to that

[52:33] accessory building. The accessory building itself is not going to be altered in any way it's just

[52:38] simply the attachment and one of the things is the shape of the lot here. It veers back

[52:45] towards the house and so adding on a patio that is large enough of what you'd find for homes

[52:53] in this neighborhood. We really start running into accessibility issues and so going to that accessory

[53:01] structure itself is really as patio space that we need and so that's what we're requesting

[53:08] for.

[53:11] Any questions from the applicant?

[53:15] Is there a hardship that necessitates the connection

[53:22] and covered patio? The hardship would be the fact that the way the lot sits, we can't

[53:30] get that patio size by shifting it any further along that house because the way the lot is

[53:36] actually shaped right there. And so as far as attaching it to the actual structure, I'd

[53:41] Let's say the hardship isn't necessarily as relevant on that because if not we're going

[53:49] to have to basically just have it as a detached structure itself.

[53:54] And so we're really just requesting that we're able to just basically one side is going

[54:00] to attach it as a gable diving in and the other side is just going to can lever over.

[54:07] So it's really a matter of a few feet and just a roof line attaching in.

[54:11] The structure sits well below the accessory billion roof line.

[54:15] It's surrounded by three privacy fences, haven't heard any.

[54:19] I'm got any opposition from the neighbors at all and it's not an outdoor patio that you have the 12, 12 pitch on 10 foot wall plates is going to be an instructive structure to the neighbors.

[54:31] It's simply so that it attaches and you can see that it's actually the garage as it attaches to.

[54:37] You know during the time the house was built, obviously detached garages were the thing since then off the attached garages have become a thing so using that garage as actual garage use to then go right from the garage into the house without having to go through the snow or rain or something like that is also I think something to consider on it.

[55:00] This is a fully enclosed patio. It's not, it is not, it's not so on once we can go back to elevations. So, and up a little, okay, so it is open on three, two sides. Yeah, two sides and really on one of the other sides is just an outdoor kitchen there. So we have a lattice fence, which, you know, we'll have about 38 inch wall, and then lattice going to be in there. And then on the other side, the fireplace with the opening on the left and right. And then

[55:29] on the other side is the outdoor kitchen, so it really will function as an outdoor patio, not an enclosure of any sort.

[55:38] So it's kicking in the problem on the zoning side is that you are, is it literally just that you are touching the existing building and it is becoming...

[55:46] It's literally the attachment of the roof to it.

[55:49] Other than that, we're not impeding on the 25 foot rear setback at all, it's just at which point whenever we attach to it,

[55:56] That's whenever it's considered competing and so we're not asking that the you know patio be on the where the outdoor kitchen is gets extended into the rear setback or anything like that.

[56:07] Though the variance we're requesting is for the rear setback really is just so we can attach into that accessory building which isn't going to be altered in any way when attaching to it.

[56:18] What's so significant about attaching to that garage?

[56:22] I think the overall feature of it, I think functionality of it is just going to be, it's a lot better to have an attached roof line.

[56:32] So that the elements aren't coming in.

[56:34] So basically it looks better, it's a very nice neighborhood.

[56:38] And I think overall I think it will have a better product for the neighborhood with it being attached.

[56:50] Any other questions?

[56:53] Okay, that's it for now. Thank you. Do we have anyone here that would like to speak

[56:57] on this case? Seeing no hands, we'll move to discussion.

[57:06] Anyone have thoughts?

[57:09] I mean, that's self-imposed. You just don't attach to it. You're fine.

[57:21] Yes, there are no from you, Roz. It's a maybe. Okay, you're on the fence. Let's do this.

[57:28] know. Yeah, no for you. Yeah, it's just the hardship that is not self-imposed. I still feel that

[57:37] there's not a clear hardship. So I'm looking at what the hardships are. Okay.

[57:50] I don't, the

[57:52] topography was enough of a hardship for me, to be honest, but it looks like I'm probably outnumbered

[57:56] anyway.

[58:03] Anybody want to make a motion? Mr. Hale does. I mean we're nominating each

[58:09] other for motions today. No. Topography was mentioned but I don't see anything

[58:14] that really shows anything to that degree but I will make a motion. Madam Chair

[58:21] in Board of Adjustment case 24093 I move to deny a variance to reduce the minimum

[58:26] I'm on rear set back in the RS-2 district from 25 feet to 0 feet, so the board finds the hardship to be self-imposed.

[58:36] I have a motion, do I have a second?

[58:38] Second.

[58:39] Okay, Ms. Dumas?

[58:42] Yes.

[58:44] Ms. Williams?

[58:45] No.

[58:46] Mr. Hale?

[58:47] Yes.

[58:48] And I also vote no.

[58:50] What does that mean?

[58:52] That would be a failed motion, so no action take-in, which?

[58:57] Yeah. No action taken. Okay. So not approved. Okay. Thank you. Moving on to agenda item

[59:05] number nine, Board of Adjustment Case 24094.

[59:11] Be Hill A. Oh, sorry. Point of clarification

[59:14] here. So we haven't run into that yet. So if it if a motion just doesn't pass then. Yeah.

[59:20] If the board fails to take action, then there's no approval granted. It's neither approved

[59:27] Okay. In order to approve, you need three yeses or you need to. So if you deny, deny

[59:37] it's three yeses, then the denial is approved. Here you made a motion, what did you mean?

[59:42] Motion to deny?

[59:44] Deny, but you only had two. So that motion to deny was not approved.

[59:48] So it just sort of was not approved in general?

[59:52] Well, the denial was not approved and you also did not, but you didn't make a motion to

[59:59] approved.

[1:00:00] Okay, so the denial is not approved.

[1:00:07] Well, I mean, should we give them the chance of continuing to next time when

[1:00:11] to mosses were here because that could be a tiebreaker?

[1:00:17] It's a board's option. You can still take that motion. Yeah.

[1:00:20] Because if no action, if we take no action, then what happens to the application, does

[1:00:28] it remain open?

[1:00:35] I mean, he hasn't gotten the relief he wanted, so it's not approved.

[1:00:43] And in some cases sometimes the board will make follow-up a split motion like this,

[1:00:52] they'll make a motion to approve, and that would be clear about whether it was approved or not.

[1:01:01] Got it.

[1:01:03] Well, so at this point, would you like to come back up to discuss the options?

[1:01:12] I realized I was going to start discussing them, but you have to get the microphone.

[1:01:15] So

[1:01:22] we have a split vote here clearly so we could take the second vote and then that would also be denied because neither way, you know, we don't have three going either direction.

[1:01:33] Would you like to entertain a continuance and come back and talk about the topography or hardship to see if the third, the fifth member of our board?

[1:01:44] Can we discuss the topography at all now?

[1:01:48] I think we're done here.

[1:01:50] I think everybody's made their votes today, but you would have a chance to come back another time and hopefully have a full board.

[1:01:59] Would all the application fees on that still apply?

[1:02:02] Yeah, your application stays open.

[1:02:04] If the board motions and approves a continuous today to their next meeting, you would just come back at their next meeting and we'll hope the fifth board member is here for that meeting so that you would have an additional board member to consider your application.

[1:02:16] Okay, you just want to just want to be conscious that yeah, you'll just be out more time

[1:02:21] Unfortunately, yeah, yeah, which right before fall. Yeah, not great. I get it. Yeah, yeah sure

[1:02:26] We'll go ahead and continue the motion on that okay, so our next

[1:02:30] Next meeting would be September 16th

[1:02:33] September 16th hang on let me double check that

[1:02:35] That's the wrong day

[1:02:38] That's a that's when the planning commission means hey hard me get my calendars confused. You've got lots of meetings. I bet okay

[1:02:45] Okay, take that back. September 22nd.

[1:02:48] September 22nd.

[1:02:49] Okay.

[1:02:50] We need an emotion for that.

[1:02:51] Yes, we do.

[1:02:53] Madam Chair, I'm on board of adjustment case,

[1:02:57] 24, 09, 3.

[1:02:59] I make a motion to continue to the next four hearing.

[1:03:05] Second.

[1:03:06] And that would be the date,

[1:03:07] would be September 22nd for that.

[1:03:10] All those that approve, Ms. Dumas?

[1:03:13] Yes.

[1:03:14] Ms. Williams.

[1:03:15] Yes, Mr. Hale. Yes. I also vote yes. Your case is continued until September 22nd. Okay, sounds good. Thank you

[1:03:22] Okay, so now we are moving on to agenda item number nine board of just in case two four zero nine four

[1:03:29] BOA two four zero nine four location is three two one five east sixty-first street south

[1:03:34] Applicant Joshua Friesenhan is requesting a special exception to permit an assisted living facility in the RS-1 district

[1:03:44] Okay name address for both of you and tell us a little bit about the case and actually

[1:03:50] before we start we have quite a few that want to speak today so should we go ahead and

[1:03:54] lay some yeah so before we start. As of right now we have 22 people signed

[1:04:01] in to speak. If you have not signed in to speak and you wish to please go to the front desk

[1:04:05] and make sure you've provided your information. Usually on meetings like on cases like this

[1:04:10] where we have a lot of speakers, we're going to call speakers individually from the sign-in sheet.

[1:04:14] So make sure your name is on the sheet.

[1:04:16] And then the chair will set time limits. So.

[1:04:19] Three minutes.

[1:04:20] Yeah.

[1:04:21] Three minutes each.

[1:04:22] With this money.

[1:04:23] Yeah, each speaker will be given three minutes to speak.

[1:04:26] We will keep time up here.

[1:04:27] And we'll let you know when you have 30 seconds remaining.

[1:04:29] And then tell you when your time is up.

[1:04:30] We ask that you please stop speaking at the time your time is up.

[1:04:33] So we make sure everyone is given time to speak.

[1:04:37] Is that cover everything?

[1:04:38] I think so. The applicant gets a little bit more time.

[1:04:41] I think typically we give the applicant maybe five minutes to present their case.

[1:04:45] And then you would have rebuttal time at the end as well.

[1:04:48] So you'd have ten, let's say.

[1:04:50] The other thing I'll say, many of you probably have the same talking points.

[1:04:54] It is totally fine to concede your time and say I agree with the points that have already been said.

[1:05:00] We keep a tally of how many are here for or against. And that helps us move along. Please, please do not come up here and just repeat the same comments. If you have something new to say, please come and add it. If not, tell us that you agree with, you know, a speaker before you and let's move on. Okay. You may go applicant. Hello. My name is Tammy Lupin. My address is 1711. Sal State Lewis here in Tulsa. And I'm proposing that we, that you approve an exception to a

[1:05:29] additional four occupants to a single residency home in RS1 district, which we'll talk about just a minute.

[1:05:37] I want to tell you about myself, my parent, my mom, and I have worked together in healthcare industry for 20 years

[1:05:43] plus she's a nurse. This step that we're taking as an assisted living home is literally a home where we take care of seniors.

[1:05:53] years.

[1:05:53] We have done this in our own home with my personal family, with our in-laws, and saw the

[1:05:58] value that that created for them and for us because we were together in a community.

[1:06:03] We'd like to bring that to a larger scale, which is what we're doing here.

[1:06:09] The elder population is growing faster today than any other segment in our population.

[1:06:15] We know there's a need for elder housing, for caring, for individuals who are no longer

[1:06:20] are able to do independent living on their own.

[1:06:24] Just until so itself, we recorded in the U.S. census

[1:06:27] that 75 and up age group is at 44,832.

[1:06:34] According to the Oklahoma State assisted living bed counts

[1:06:40] 1,040.

[1:06:43] There's gonna be a continued need for assistance

[1:06:46] with activities of daily living

[1:06:49] and a demand has been created for group homes in a residential setting.

[1:06:56] We are members of the residential assisted living nation,

[1:07:01] association, national association, and the Oklahoma Senior Living Association.

[1:07:06] We know that this is a setting that is best for our seniors.

[1:07:11] It is not an institution. We are not creating an institution.

[1:07:14] It is a home, and it will feel like a home, smell like a home, look like a home.

[1:07:20] Everything in this environment is created to be a warm space for them to call home.

[1:07:26] That's where they're the most comfortable.

[1:07:28] The age and place is to be able to stay in an environment that is most home like.

[1:07:34] Josh is my developer, contractor, worker alongside with this.

[1:07:38] He'll tell you a little bit about the home, and then I can say why we're choosing this

[1:07:43] Tell them which side to say why first?

[1:07:45] Let's go ahead and go through, we pulled the site plan on this because I think that that's going to address some of the questions about being approached by remote health.

[1:07:55] If we can go to the site plan on this, because I think this is going to be a good depiction on why this is going to stay within a single family residence harmony is the, they have a private entrance coming off.

[1:08:10] Basically, the main street, you take a turn into the neighborhood and there is a circle

[1:08:14] drive that actually exits back on to 61st Street there.

[1:08:19] So that's been deemed the visitor's entrance or emergency entrances and you don't have

[1:08:24] to go through the neighborhood to access that.

[1:08:27] You simply turn in and it's your first turn once you enter that neighborhood on the right

[1:08:30] and then it goes right on to 61st Street there.

[1:08:34] The second thing is that there is fenced in parking along the back side that actually

[1:08:40] has a privacy gate, that that's where all day-to-day traffic as far as staff goes is going

[1:08:48] to be parked.

[1:08:49] So we're not going to have any kind of parking along that street.

[1:08:53] I think that's going to be different than any other single-family residents.

[1:08:56] Also on the outside is going to maintain the single-family residence appearance.

[1:09:02] So it's going to, you know, basically do a little bit of an exterior work on it, but it's not going to change as far as wall heights go.

[1:09:11] We're not changing the roof lines on it, anything like that. So as far as appearance goes, it will appear basically as it does now as a single-family residence.

[1:09:22] So in looking at some of the goals that the Oklahoma multi-sector plan has for seniors, one of these is to provide more housing for seniors.

[1:09:31] And this is a small part to do in this, but again, we're not doing a huge institution.

[1:09:37] We don't want to make a facility, we want to place it feels like a home, and it supports

[1:09:42] the needs that they have for their daily living.

[1:09:46] The footprint that we found here was surprisingly large for a home.

[1:09:50] It's over 5,000 square feet.

[1:09:53] We would use the garage as part of our space and then build on a garage as needed because

[1:09:59] is it?

[1:10:00] I don't think it's even used right now, actually. It's been converted. But in this space, it would give our residents our people that get to stay with us over 400 square feet per person. So this is not, we're not smushing them. They have individual rooms, individual bathrooms. We're giving them accommodations that are private, that are safe, that are comfortable for them and not fitting into a small box. So my one in my home, our parents shared a bedroom.

[1:10:29] They were totally comfortable with that.

[1:10:31] Our kids shared bedrooms.

[1:10:33] We're not doing that here unless a couple needs to move in or something like that.

[1:10:37] So the exception for the additional four, there's already eight occupants that can occupy

[1:10:43] a single residency home.

[1:10:45] We're requesting an additional four to be able to meet the needs of some of the upcoming

[1:10:50] population changes.

[1:10:59] Do you have any questions from?

[1:11:01] Any questions from the board?

[1:11:03] How much staff will be on site at each point in time?

[1:11:08] So as far as staff goes, it's our caregivers who will be hands-on with our residents in

[1:11:13] the home that live in their home, that is their home.

[1:11:16] So there will be two on site at all times.

[1:11:20] There might be an additional administrator who will be in and out overseeing who's an oversight.

[1:11:25] We'll have a dietitian nutritionist who will give us plans, but our caregivers will be

[1:11:30] doing the menus and the cooking and things like that. So we'll have support staff but

[1:11:35] they're not necessarily in the home all the time.

[1:11:38] So at any given point in time, how much staff will be on?

[1:11:42] At any given point between two to four possibly, if there's an extra somebody who needs to take

[1:11:50] care of something in particular that you know wasn't necessarily counting for.

[1:11:56] So, as far as deliveries go, that's not any different than any normal home and maybe

[1:12:03] less.

[1:12:04] Seniors at this point are not shopping online.

[1:12:07] We're not going to have an excessive car, Amazon people, bringing in delivery things to

[1:12:11] the house.

[1:12:13] We will have our own supplies that we will pick up and take in, or we might have something

[1:12:17] delivered, but it will be a bolt for whatever we need at that time.

[1:12:22] The traffic that may be coming into the home is maybe expected to be more, but in general

[1:12:30] assisted living homes have a lower traffic volume.

[1:12:34] They're generally not driving because they need help with their daily living skills.

[1:12:39] It's the cooking and the bathing and the cleaning and the housekeeping around them and make

[1:12:44] you sure that they're safe in a place where they're not going to be falling very often.

[1:12:49] The monitoring systems that will be in place will keep them safe where they're at.

[1:12:54] So we have our modifications to our grounds, wherever they're walking, are safe.

[1:13:03] They're widened.

[1:13:04] They're smooth.

[1:13:05] We've got a ramp.

[1:13:06] There's one spot that has a little bit of a raise.

[1:13:08] It'll be a nice large wide ramp that will be totally ADA compliant and it will make it

[1:13:15] easy for them to move around in the home without having to shuffle as they go

[1:13:19] through. The other thing is the enhancement of the property. We are not changing

[1:13:26] the exterior or the footprint of this home. We're not adding any extra

[1:13:30] spaces to this home because we need to fit more. We're using what the current

[1:13:35] footprint is and then we're going to beautify it. We don't want a home that just

[1:13:39] looks normal for our residents. This is their home and we care for that. So it will

[1:13:44] be beautified, we will have manicured landscape, we will have lawn care that is regular and

[1:13:49] we will keep it maintained and manicured, looking nice for our neighbors.

[1:13:53] Because we want it to look good in the neighborhood, we want our neighborhood to be proud of

[1:13:57] having this as well, because we're at the front of the street.

[1:14:00] We're going to be seeing and we want them to know that we take care of what we have in

[1:14:06] our home.

[1:14:11] I want to add one more thing to that is construction wise.

[1:14:14] The plan is for a complete interior remodel.

[1:14:18] I mean, everything that's in there, the house is basically going to come down to studs, moved around a little bit,

[1:14:24] and then everything in there is going to be new.

[1:14:26] So, as far as the appraisal of the home and the home value itself,

[1:14:30] that's going to be increasing with this project.

[1:14:34] It's not just moving in there, doing simple little few fixes as cheap as possible,

[1:14:39] and get people in there.

[1:14:42] There's actually going to be a very extensive remodel,

[1:14:44] and like I said, to add the value to that home,

[1:14:47] the property value will actually increase

[1:14:49] by doing this to that property.

[1:14:54] Have you made an attempt to speak

[1:14:56] with the neighborhood about this before today?

[1:14:59] I...

[1:15:00] In planning for all this, they're talking through this state of Oklahoma and the licensure. It requires a lot of pre-happening before the licensure even comes. And then finding this house and purchasing it, we knew that eight would be normal, and that four would be the special use permit. Well, for the size of this house, it didn't seem like we were going to need that much conversation. In my opinion, this is what we thought, for what we're trying to do.

[1:15:29] They don't know our heart, they don't know what we're trying to do.

[1:15:32] And so coming here to try to explain is helpful and that they're here to listen is really

[1:15:37] very helpful for us too.

[1:15:40] From where we're coming from it is helpful and it is a labor of love.

[1:15:43] It is something that we want to provide for this population that isn't as common right

[1:15:49] now.

[1:15:51] I do know there has been some opposition from the neighborhood and I think in mentioning

[1:15:56] that.

[1:15:56] and then also see in the FOX 23. There's going to be some miscommunication about the one the size of the facility to the fact that

[1:16:04] you know there's even a looted to that this was going to have to require a full

[1:16:07] re-zone and a commercial property which obviously isn't the case there

[1:16:13] and then also I think as far as traffic goes noise goes things like that that

[1:16:19] was almost a looted to that it'd be adding onto it's actually it's going to be a very quiet house and as far as being within

[1:16:26] Harmony of a single-family residence,

[1:16:28] and he's going to check all those boxes.

[1:16:31] So I know this is going to be assisted living home,

[1:16:33] but again, as far as a special exception goes,

[1:16:35] staying within harmony of that single-family residence,

[1:16:38] look, appearance, functionality,

[1:16:42] it's going to check all those boxes.

[1:16:46] Okay, any other questions?

[1:16:48] Yes, I have questions about some of the numbers

[1:16:54] that are in the application

[1:16:55] and that you've talked about today.

[1:16:58] In some places on the applications it says it refers

[1:17:02] to the number of residents and so the number of people.

[1:17:05] But then in some cases it refers to the number of residences

[1:17:10] which I assume to mean rooms.

[1:17:15] And so like are you maybe just a type of honestly,

[1:17:21] just number of residents.

[1:17:22] Yes. Okay. And so how many rooms will be available in your current plans?

[1:17:29] Ten rooms with two rooms holding two occupancy. Okay.

[1:17:34] Let me have a couple moving in.

[1:17:39] So eight rooms will be single occupancy

[1:17:44] and two of the rooms will be a double occupancy. Correct. Okay.

[1:17:48] Okay. And then, so there's 12 people, not 12 rooms.

[1:17:54] Correct.

[1:17:55] Okay. And so with the caretakers, you're saying anywhere between two to four people, like any given time.

[1:18:05] And it could be for 20 minutes, it could be for 45 minutes. It's not going to be hours on end. Sorry.

[1:18:12] okay so let's if I'm just doing some quick sketches to say three people so we

[1:18:18] have twelve people plus three people and then I imagine all the residents will

[1:18:23] also be able to have visitors like family members who are coming to see them

[1:18:27] yeah okay and so that could be but the caregivers do not live there right

[1:18:34] they're not living right in the space and they're as far as their room and

[1:18:39] where they're going to habitat, they're there to just take care.

[1:18:43] Okay.

[1:18:44] Oversea, yeah.

[1:18:45] Cool.

[1:18:45] But I just wanted to make sure that the later house kicker, the cleaner, would come in,

[1:18:50] do things in the home, and then move through.

[1:18:53] Okay.

[1:18:54] I just want to make sure I'm understanding the numbers before we start to hear a lot of

[1:18:58] other testimonies, and so just want to make sure that's laid out clear, thank you.

[1:19:07] I do have some images of other homes that are residential assisted living homes.

[1:19:12] If you'd like to see that they do look like homes.

[1:19:16] This isn't something that's unusual.

[1:19:18] They're all over the community.

[1:19:19] Please give this to her.

[1:19:21] You'll see that.

[1:19:22] There are a cross-pination and so it's not a brand new concept.

[1:19:28] At one time they were considered many assisted livings and so that's kind of changed the way

[1:19:33] that's looked and then it's gone into the big mocks facility and institution type

[1:19:37] field.

[1:19:44] Any other questions? Okay, thank you so much.

[1:19:48] Thank you. Thank you. Before we get started with speakers, I will note I've counted. Do

[1:19:54] we have 56? Correct me if I'm wrong. Staff, but 56 letters of opposition.

[1:20:00] I did not see any that were four. So you actually had eight already included in your packet and 56 additional that came in after the packet was published. So in total, we had 64 letters. Okay. So I'll just say that to the speakers that are here today. If you have already written a letter, we have that you were one of the 64 and we have your specifics of your opposition. So again, keep that in mind if we want to concede time and move forward with that.

[1:20:31] But I will turn it over to the city staff to figure out who speaks first.

[1:20:38] First speaker is Bob Keim.

[1:20:41] I represent numerous of the residents, James A. Sparris, 401 South, Boston, Tulsa, Oklahoma.

[1:20:48] It might be efficient, I mean this group is kind of organized, and so if I could speak

[1:20:54] first and then introduce another speaker who is organized, I think, with the thoughts

[1:20:59] of the group. I think that might improve the efficiency of the presentation. Does that

[1:21:04] make sense? How many would that cut that number down to?

[1:21:08] Excuse me? How many, so you mentioned two that represent a group, a collective if you

[1:21:13] will. How many would that cut out? I would, well, that's a good question, I think.

[1:21:19] So you don't know until you, they hear you speak?

[1:21:21] majority of them, frankly. Russell Jacobson is also a resident adjacent to this application

[1:21:32] and he's got the facts. This is a matter of obviously the law applied to the facts.

[1:21:39] So we already gave him one second and the board agree with going out of order or city, would

[1:21:45] you guys?

[1:21:46] Yeah, I mean, we can have him speak first.

[1:21:49] He's really only the second person in line anyway.

[1:21:52] So, yeah, we'll recognize Mr. Ferris.

[1:21:55] And we will allow it, Mr. Ferris, your three minute starts now.

[1:21:58] Thank you, appreciate that, and appreciate your time.

[1:22:01] This obviously has created a lot of oppositions.

[1:22:04] You could see from the communications to the board.

[1:22:08] You know, the legal issues are obviously clear, although they're not very precise.

[1:22:14] Obviously, it's a project that's got to be in harmony with the spirit and

[1:22:18] tent of the code.

[1:22:19] You'll have to judge that based on what you're hearing today.

[1:22:23] And the second, not being serious to the neighborhood.

[1:22:26] I think you'll hear that from the comments today also.

[1:22:29] So I think one of the things that probably most will mention is a traffic on 61st Street.

[1:22:37] I'm assuming you all use 61st Street.

[1:22:40] It's dangerous in the area of this facility or proposed facility.

[1:22:44] It winds around because visiting my clients in the area, it's scary to get out on 61st

[1:22:51] Street because they're coming around the curve, you can't see it.

[1:22:54] So Russell Jacobson, as I said, will address the specific factual issues that have been identified

[1:23:02] by the group that is met regarding the opposition's project.

[1:23:06] So I'd like Mr. Jacobson, if nobody objects to also make a presentation as to the facts relating to this and I think he would

[1:23:16] cannot eliminate a lot of the other speakers being thought to need to speak.

[1:23:22] Thank you.

[1:23:23] Okay.

[1:23:26] Mr. Jacobson?

[1:23:28] Yes.

[1:23:28] Okay, yes, good afternoon.

[1:23:31] And I have a feeling that a lot of the people that are signed up on the sheet, maybe just signed in because they thought they had to

[1:23:37] I'm not sure that everyone that signed in was intending to speak.

[1:23:42] So let me, I'll just say, I'll go, we'll still go down the list.

[1:23:45] If anyone at any point decides they don't want to speak anymore, just wave me off,

[1:23:49] and I'll go to the next person in line, but we'll make sure everybody gets their opportunity.

[1:23:53] So, okay, great.

[1:23:54] And Mr. Jacobson, if you could start with your name and address?

[1:23:57] Yes, yes, I'm Russell Jacobson, I live at 3137 East 64th Street in Tulsa.

[1:24:02] I live right across 59th Street from the subject property.

[1:24:05] So I'm kind of a next-door neighbor, just real and I timed myself on this and quite frankly it's beyond three minutes, but I will do the best that I can to get through this.

[1:24:18] Before I get started with that opposition, I'd like for you to know and the applicant did point out that there has been no communication from them.

[1:24:26] We really had no idea exactly what was happening there until the yellow signs went up in the front yard and we received a notice from the city.

[1:24:34] So we've had very little time to fully understand and grasp all the parties that are involved.

[1:24:41] We were confused by the application because the record title holder of the land is different

[1:24:45] from the owner that's indicated on the application, and we didn't know who the applicant was either.

[1:24:53] That was a little, obviously that became clear as we learned a little bit more about it.

[1:25:00] The residents has been unoccupied for some time. We assumed as neighbors that, like a lot of the other properties in the addition, someone would come in by the property, fix it up, upgrade it, sell it, it would be to the benefit of everyone. They would make money. The land owners would not be hurt, the residents would not be hurt, and we would just go on about our business. That obviously is not what is taking place here. As you all know, there are two prongs.

[1:25:29] Mr. Ferris has already touched on the one regarding that this be in the spirit and the harmony of the code.

[1:25:36] And then of course the other is that this not be injurious to the neighborhood.

[1:25:41] I'm going to touch on the injurious part first in speaking.

[1:25:49] The burden lies with the applicant to establish that the exception will not be injurious to the neighborhood.

[1:25:55] The app clearly fails to carry this burden and assisted living operation housing multiple

[1:26:01] residents is not a quiet household.

[1:26:04] It is an active facility with an active logistics network to support its residents.

[1:26:09] 32, 15 years, 61st is a highly visible corner lot surrounded by two dead end streets with

[1:26:15] very small cul-de-sacs.

[1:26:17] These are odd little cul-de-sacs and those two dead end streets, it's almost impossible

[1:26:22] to turn around when you go back into the neighborhood.

[1:26:26] In fact, if you do pull in, you usually have to do a three point turn to get back out.

[1:26:32] Fire truck is not going to be able to get back out.

[1:26:34] They're going to have to back out onto 61st Street.

[1:26:39] The dead end street that's directly behind the proposed facility where the rear driveway entry is located is only 20 feet wide.

[1:26:47] significantly narrower than the standard 26 foot with a typical neighborhood street.

[1:26:52] Even a first responder, like I said, will have no choice but to back out.

[1:26:58] The commercial operation will require vehicular traffic and parking for staff.

[1:27:03] Overlapping shift workers, nurses, doctors, physical therapists, laundry services, food delivery trucks, and family members.

[1:27:10] The necessary high volume of operational traffic to continuously transition in and out of this residence will create an immediate traffic hazard and a bottleneck.

[1:27:20] This congestion is a critical safety hazard during emergency situations, directly compromising access for fire trucks and immediate neighborhood residents.

[1:27:29] Our neighborhood has many walkers, runners and cyclists, both adults and children.

[1:27:35] I personally walk every day and have seen many people that utilize those subject

[1:27:40] streets for their exercise during daylight and dark.

[1:27:43] We have no sidewalks in the neighborhood.

[1:27:46] The increase continuous traffic should I keep going?

[1:27:50] I'll give you my three minutes.

[1:27:52] She can have mine.

[1:27:53] Keep going.

[1:27:54] Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

[1:27:57] We have no sidewalks in the neighborhood.

[1:27:59] So, therefore, you know, you have to walk in the streets, run in the streets, cycle in the streets.

[1:28:04] The increased continuous traffic from this proposed commercial enterprise will certainly create safety issues for everyone walking, running and cycling.

[1:28:15] The proposed facility also poses a safety issue by creating an attractive target for criminal activity.

[1:28:23] The proposed drawings include storage closets for medicine for the residents.

[1:28:26] As we see in pharmacy, drug theft and robbery is a real issue.

[1:28:31] Having drug stored in quantity inside the proposed facility has the potential.

[1:28:36] We're nonexisted before to lead the violent crime in our neighborhood by those seeking drugs.

[1:28:42] Furthermore, an assisted living of this size inherently relies on frequent emergency medical services.

[1:28:47] Introducing regular ambulance sirens and flashing lights at all hours of the night into these constrained spaces.

[1:28:54] is an undeniable direct injury to the peace and safety of the immediate surrounding families.

[1:29:00] Speaking personally as one of the neighbors directly across from the street from this, across the street from this proposed facility,

[1:29:06] most of our bedrooms in our home will be affected by those flashing lights and sirens.

[1:29:12] Additionally and very importantly, a large part if not the majority of each person's life savings are tied up in their homes.

[1:29:18] This commercial enterprise will damage each of us by driving our property values down, unlike the applicant just indicated.

[1:29:26] I would just ask who wants to live next door to a commercial enterprise with heavy traffic, constant parking on the streets and emergency vehicles coming and going.

[1:29:36] If I had known 11 years ago that there was going to be an assisted living next door, I would have never bought the house.

[1:29:44] So that's going to have a negative impact on everyone's property values.

[1:29:50] I believe that we are, I speak for a number of people and I would say everyone that is in favor of this or is opposed to this.

[1:30:00] Sorry, please stand so that we can just have a demonstration of who is here in opposition. Thank you very much. And again, I apologize. I'm trying to rust through this in the interest of time, allowing this exception creates a dangerous precedent for zoning creep in South Tulsa. We're not opposed to assisted living centers. This is just not the appropriate place for one. The location isn't just not suitable when there are plenty of other suitable locations in the city.

[1:30:29] and other areas. If the 12 resident commercial facility can be forced into the

[1:30:37] most restrictive RS1 zone in the city, when better suited locations exist, then

[1:30:41] no single family neighborhood is safe. To formally demonstrate the depth of

[1:30:49] this detriment to our public welfare, we have submitted to the official record of

[1:30:55] petition signed by 158 of your fellow Tulsar residents who live within the immediate area.

[1:31:00] Anybody up to me?

[1:31:01] I want to give you your time.

[1:31:03] Okay.

[1:31:03] I have one more sentence.

[1:31:05] Rock on, buddy.

[1:31:06] One more sentence.

[1:31:08] My wife and I did not sign that petition.

[1:31:10] We were both out of town when it was being circulated, so that number can come up to 160.

[1:31:15] The applicant was failed to meet his burden, and this project fails to meet every metric

[1:31:19] of section 71-20G and we respectfully urge the Board to deny this application B-O-A-24-094.

[1:31:27] Thank you.

[1:31:35] Okay.

[1:31:36] Going back, Bob Kym.

[1:31:48] My name is Bob Kym.

[1:31:51] 29-93 is 57th Street, Call Socloma.

[1:31:55] I'm probably three to four blocks north of the residence in question.

[1:32:02] I have very little to add to what was previously said other than I want to confirm that we did

[1:32:08] buy in the neighborhood with the anticipation of increasing property values.

[1:32:13] I don't see that here.

[1:32:15] And I would like to add that Southern Hills Country Club has crossed the street and we

[1:32:20] have tournaments over there, a lot of traffic, and that should be taken into consideration.

[1:32:26] That's all I have.

[1:32:34] Mike, or I'm sorry, Mark Meedor.

[1:32:37] Thank

[1:32:49] the board for being here and dealing with all this.

[1:32:53] We appreciate your work.

[1:32:55] Mark Meader, 5601 South Evanston Avenue.

[1:32:59] I've lived there for over 30 years.

[1:33:03] And I'm also the lucky recipient of being

[1:33:06] the president of the Homeowners Association.

[1:33:08] there represents 350 homes in all those areas north of 61st Street, all the way to Joe

[1:33:16] Creek. Just to let you know in that 160, I think it's probably more like 350 people

[1:33:25] that are opposed to this. With that said, of course, when I bought

[1:33:31] I had my house back 30 years ago, pursuant to the terms of this neighborhood covenant.

[1:33:40] I know I'm not a lawyer, but to me it says it shall be single family homes, dwellings

[1:33:47] and I know I'm not a lawyer, so I don't go into that, but last to say I agree so much

[1:33:53] with 61st Street, my 29 years ago, my wife was involved in a traffic accident, excuse

[1:34:00] me, right in front of this house, that totaled our car, and it was my wife and infant

[1:34:09] part at the time. So 61st Street is definitely an issue. Traffic's gaining each year has

[1:34:17] Tulsa Groms. With that, thank you very much.

[1:34:19] this

[1:34:27] looks Chuck Rania. Oh okay. Taking that away.

[1:34:35] Linda Strosser? Strosser?

[1:34:41] Okay

[1:34:42] not speaking.

[1:34:45] Jamie Fowler?

[1:34:54] Board members good afternoon and I do want to thank

[1:34:57] you all for serving and it

[1:35:00] It really means a lot to our community. A lot of a motion here. I've passed city councilor

[1:35:07] for many, many years. I know so many of you all personally and have a biting love for

[1:35:14] the neighborhood. I live in the neighborhood, 5601, South Gary Avenue, and it's a very, very

[1:35:22] special place. I've seen a lot of these come in front of the council and people that come

[1:35:30] up are very, very passionate on both sides. I'm going to just going to give some quick bullet

[1:35:37] points and kind of reinforce what's already been communicated. Number one is this is that 61st,

[1:35:43] First that 61st corridor is a very, very high traffic corridor and I travel that probably

[1:35:57] least once enough not twice a day and even when it's not in the morning or late in the

[1:36:05] afternoon coming on from work, there's just a tremendous amount of traffic that runs up

[1:36:11] down that corridor right in through here. So I kind of took note of some of the people

[1:36:17] that would be on that property right in through there. Just lawn mowing maintenance people

[1:36:23] on a regular basis.

[1:36:26] Visitors, patient visitors, caregivers, food delivery, a made service.

[1:36:33] And then from time to time I bet you would see an Amazon truck right in through there.

[1:36:38] So issue number two is this is that you're going to have a lot of people on that property and the number three is this and this was always just almost always a deal killer.

[1:36:50] When we had one of these coming in front of the council and a councilor would ask someone that's asking for a zoning change or variance.

[1:36:59] the first question that was always asked is,

[1:37:02] tell us about your community engagement.

[1:37:05] How many people did you go out into the community

[1:37:07] and engage with?

[1:37:10] And number one, if there's no community engagement,

[1:37:13] it's like game over.

[1:37:16] There was no attempt as far as communicating with the community.

[1:37:22] That's it, right in through there.

[1:37:24] So with that, I respectfully ask you all the

[1:37:30] Denive this, this variance.

[1:37:33] Thank you.

[1:37:39] Erica Garvin,

[1:37:43] wrong case.

[1:37:46] That's okay.

[1:37:49] Let's see.

[1:37:50] Tyler Perrett,

[1:37:56] Madam Chair, members of the board, good to see you.

[1:37:58] My name is Tyler Perrett.

[1:37:59] My address is 5417 South Marion Place, so I get to live in the neighborhood right across

[1:38:04] from the special exception application.

[1:38:07] I'm here because I love the character of my neighborhood.

[1:38:11] I love the diversity of my neighborhood.

[1:38:14] I love that we bought our home, we get to raise our two-year-old daughter in our neighborhood.

[1:38:19] And there are many of these neighbors that I deeply love and respect.

[1:38:23] I am not opposed to changing our neighborhood.

[1:38:26] I would actually like to see a lot of change in our neighborhood, especially around 51st and Harvard, give or take.

[1:38:32] But I also know that our demographics in our community are changing.

[1:38:38] The age group between 65 and 74 in our community grew more than any other age group in our metro since 2017.

[1:38:47] We are seeing a lot of people aging into homes that they cannot take care of.

[1:38:52] What we are seeing is they leave their homes vacant.

[1:38:55] those homes aren't being backfilled and they are leaving vacant homes across our community.

[1:39:01] And so what I see here is an opportunity to take a vacant home,

[1:39:05] turn it into something that is vibrant, and being utilized,

[1:39:09] and adding value to our community in a way that breathes new life in our community.

[1:39:14] By creating a type of housing that currently doesn't exist in our community,

[1:39:18] and giving an opportunity for people to stay in a neighborhood that they deeply love.

[1:39:23] I'm a long way from needing to move out of my house because I can't take care of it.

[1:39:27] But I know that there is a woman across the street in my cul-de-sac that has lived in

[1:39:30] that house for her entire life and that when she moves out she will not be able to stay

[1:39:35] in our neighborhood because there is no place for her to go.

[1:39:38] And so my hope today is for Pam, that there is a place in our neighborhood that she can go,

[1:39:43] that she can stay in the community that she has lived in for her entire 87 years.

[1:39:48] And so, I hope that this place move forward.

[1:39:52] I am here to support this variance.

[1:39:54] I didn't communicate with the applicant.

[1:39:56] I also was not on the list of people that they communicated with, but I am here because

[1:40:00] Because I deeply love my neighborhood, I deeply love my neighbors, and I want to see it be a place that continues to thrive. Thank you.

[1:40:05] Tom

[1:40:11] Stichen?

[1:40:25] Tom, excuse me, Tom Stichen 5641 South Gary Avenue.

[1:40:31] We purchased our home in 1985, we've lived in the neighborhood the entire time, and I think

[1:40:38] the thing that strikes me from the previous presentation, so this was zone, this RS-1 single

[1:40:44] family residential house, and everybody that purchased their home in the neighborhood purchased

[1:40:49] it with that understanding.

[1:40:50] And so they're not really asking for a variance in terms of the size of the driveway or the

[1:40:56] size of the setback, they're actually changing the composition and actually going to commercial

[1:41:03] because no one's talked about what they're going to charge these patients.

[1:41:07] And it may be financially beneficial for them, but it has nothing to do with the impact

[1:41:12] of the code.

[1:41:13] And if we don't apply laws uniformly and all of a sudden start making exceptions because

[1:41:21] people can afford to or make a good economic case, then we're not really applying the

[1:41:26] law uniformly.

[1:41:28] And that's all that I ask, and I think a lot of the people here ask, is that everyone in

[1:41:32] the neighborhood bought their home with the understanding that it was single family.

[1:41:36] And if someone's parents need help and want to live in the house, I commend her for taking

[1:41:42] can care of her parents in her home in another neighborhood.

[1:41:46] But whoever wants to buy this house needs to understand that it's

[1:41:50] own for single family residential.

[1:42:00] Belinda Spitzer?

[1:42:05] OK.

[1:42:07] Weldon Spitzer?

[1:42:09] OK.

[1:42:12] Kirk for van der Slein.

[1:42:17] OK.

[1:42:18] And Lana Thompson?

[1:42:19] My

[1:42:34] name is Lana Thomason, 5919 South Gary Place.

[1:42:39] I live right behind the street where their driveway in the back comes out.

[1:42:43] I live in that little cul-de-sac.

[1:42:47] I live right there in the corner.

[1:42:49] I don't want to, you've heard all the things, the street is smaller, out the traffic, just

[1:42:53] any little bit of traffic.

[1:42:55] We have trouble getting in there.

[1:42:57] There are like several driveways already.

[1:42:59] We have to be careful.

[1:43:00] You cannot come down and turn around in the coldest sack at all, you have to do a three-point turn or a lot of people turn around in my driveway.

[1:43:09] So, like we've said, there's no sidewalks for kids.

[1:43:12] We have kids and grandkids that are around there all the time. So, you know, they're usually in the street or in the yards right there.

[1:43:19] Just a couple quick things as I don't want to keep you too long.

[1:43:23] Trash trucks, of course, it's going to be a lot more trash with 12 residents plus the staff and whoever else is there.

[1:43:30] We don't even, in our street, they don't even send a regular trash truck.

[1:43:34] We have the little small ones that the guys get out and just do it because there's not enough room for them.

[1:43:41] Last year this city was working on our streets, putting in new drains, fixing the curbs and things.

[1:43:45] And they had it all blocked off. We couldn't even get to our homes because they had everything messed up.

[1:43:50] and we had to park on 61st and walk through the neighbors yards just to get to our houses.

[1:43:56] So anytime there's a lot of emergency things going, we had police cars there the other day

[1:44:02] because somebody wrecked the car and ran off and did something, so there were a lot of police cars

[1:44:08] we couldn't get to our house again. So any extra traffic is going to be definitely a hardship on,

[1:44:14] especially those that live right behind. One last thing I do have the original copy of the petition,

[1:44:19] I didn't know if you guys needed that for verifications or anything.

[1:44:24] If that's your only original, has that been scanned and sent to us already?

[1:44:28] Yeah, wasting it to everybody.

[1:44:29] The scan copy is fine if you want to hold on to your original.

[1:44:31] Okay, that's all I have. Thank you.

[1:44:39] Jessica Klingeman.

[1:44:48] Hi, I'm Jessica Klingeman. This is my husband and that Klingeman.

[1:44:52] We live at 3217 East 59th Street. We live directly across the street from this house.

[1:44:58] My living room window looks out.

[1:45:00] The reason I'm so emotional is my personal story is that I was raped and I have severe PTSD. We worked a very long time saving up, to buy a house in this neighborhood so that that wouldn't be triggered. My concern is that the ambulances and fire trucks. I'm a nurse practitioner, care for people day in and day out. I just think there's another place for this.

[1:45:31] And we bought this home like everybody else said, so that I get a piece.

[1:45:36] My bedroom window also, I will see the lights coming through.

[1:45:40] How this is severely going to give me a hardship is we will have this all our home.

[1:45:45] I will not be able to live in a place with ambulances and fire trucks at all times.

[1:45:51] I just can't do it.

[1:45:53] And I can take medicine to everything, so thank you for listening.

[1:45:58] thank you for your time and volunteering and it also makes me sad that they

[1:46:03] didn't reach out to us because she doesn't know my story and I care about people

[1:46:07] do I care about you all I care about your application but it's just not the

[1:46:10] right place thank you.

[1:46:20] Mike McGiven, let me give it, waving it off.

[1:46:27] Dana Kish, oh

[1:47:05] Oh, you've already received my epistle on this, but I did want to use this as an opportunity

[1:47:13] you to sum up the applicants knowingly bought into an R1 residential area, a single family.

[1:47:23] Now they want to convert a house in that area to a commercial business for profit.

[1:47:31] To say that would be in harmony with the spirit of the code or with the existing restrictive

[1:47:37] governance which will not be affected by any decision here is completely false. Thank you.

[1:47:52] Last speaker is Derek Williams,

[1:47:56] not here. Okay, that's everything.

[1:48:01] Okay, thank you so much. Let's go ahead and call the applicant back up if you'd like to

[1:48:08] respond to anything that was said.

[1:48:15] You have another five minutes. Okay, first of all I do want to

[1:48:18] address the community. I appreciate you being here. I want you to know what's happening.

[1:48:23] We are not doing this in a commercial light. That was the purpose of this home and this

[1:48:28] neighborhood. We think this is the exact neighborhood people want to stay and want to

[1:48:34] be around. So that was our primary reason for being where we're going, so I wanted to make

[1:48:41] I wanted to make sure that that was identified.

[1:48:44] This is a nice neighborhood for individuals who are in this age group.

[1:48:49] This is what they're familiar with.

[1:48:51] This is a community that they feel safe in.

[1:48:54] They will be monitored.

[1:48:57] This is not a medical facility.

[1:48:59] We do not have medical skill care on site for this.

[1:49:03] They will receive that if they need to, then they'll go out and get what they need.

[1:49:07] need, but we are not going to see any extra emergency vehicles because we have seniors in

[1:49:15] our home that is kind of a false, just like anybody else could fall.

[1:49:20] They would call the immediate emergency system and the fire truck would come.

[1:49:25] I do know that it is a short road back down the back.

[1:49:28] We do have access in there for single cars, but one of the things we notice with that there

[1:49:33] is access off a 61st, 51st.

[1:49:36] There is an access road just beyond us as well to help alleviate some of the pressure off whatever traffic might be happening.

[1:49:45] We do know the golf course is there and there are activities that happen and there is excessive traffic.

[1:49:51] I don't foresee that that would affect us and what we do.

[1:49:55] Again, we've allotted for the traffic and the parking and things that we would need to come in.

[1:50:00] We are not asking for a variance change. We are not asking for a zoning change. We do not want to change what this is. This special exception use is what our request today is.

[1:50:30] majority of the opposition talk about the assisted living

[1:50:36] in a commercial light and I understand where they're coming from.

[1:50:42] Zoning wise, though, is a single family assisted living is allowed

[1:50:46] and single family residents via the Zoning Code is also protected under the Fair Housing Act for that.

[1:50:54] So, really what we're asking for is the occupant level to be increased to 12th, and I

[1:51:03] guess it, I definitely understand their concerns and I heard them by did hear majority of it

[1:51:07] surrounding the actual assisted living part of it, which is protected under the Fairhousing

[1:51:12] Act.

[1:51:15] Okay.

[1:51:16] Thank you so much.

[1:51:17] Thank you.

[1:51:18] Thank you.

[1:51:20] With that, we will move into discussion, and we won't entertain any more comments while

[1:51:27] we're in discussion.

[1:51:28] So just to make that clear, I do want to just start out by saying thank you so much for

[1:51:33] being here.

[1:51:34] All of you concern neighbors, active neighbors, involved neighbors, make the best neighbors.

[1:51:39] So I hope that every neighborhood has support, like in care for their community, like you

[1:51:46] do today.

[1:51:46] So thank you so much for being here, and we will move into discussion here.

[1:51:56] Mason, can you remind us what the exact definition of assisted living is for the zoning code?

[1:52:02] Yeah, and I was going to be my same question, because as I'm looking at the use table for our districts,

[1:52:08] it seems like assisted living facility is permitted via a special exception, which is what the applicant is asking for.

[1:52:17] in R-E, R-S-1, R-S-2, R-S-3, R-S-4, R-S-5 on up until it gets into R-M-0.

[1:52:28] Yeah, so assisted living centers are considered residential uses in the zoning code.

[1:52:35] Do you want me to read the definition?

[1:52:38] Yeah, I'll mind a residential facility designed to meet housing and care needs of older persons and individuals with disabilities

[1:52:45] in a residential rather than institutional environment while maximizing independence, choice, and privacy.

[1:52:52] Assisted living programs provide personal care for persons with needs for assistance in the activities of daily living and can respond to unscheduled needs for assistance.

[1:53:00] Services typically provided include meals, housekeeping, laundry and linen services, medication monitoring, transportation, and activities.

[1:53:08] assisted living settings also typically provide features that enhance resident

[1:53:12] autonomy such as lockable doors full bathrooms temperature control and single

[1:53:17] occupancy and may provide limited cooking facilities within individual units.

[1:53:22] Sorry I didn't realize the definition was that long it would make you stand down

[1:53:27] a paragraph over here. I think that's an important place to start. Sure yeah I was

[1:53:33] looking for maybe there was some kind of definition of amount of residents

[1:53:38] But it doesn't look like that's the case, so.

[1:53:40] So I'll be clear that, you know, there's been a lot of references to eight versus 12.

[1:53:45] Something that our code does allow is any residential use of eight occupants, even unrelated occupants.

[1:53:53] That's permitted as a single housekeeping unit or a single dwelling unit.

[1:53:57] So when we use the word single family, obviously, there are other ways to interpret that.

[1:54:01] That's not always related by blood.

[1:54:03] There are oftentimes roommate situations or unrelated persons who live in a household.

[1:54:08] So the household definition of the zoning code maxes that out at eight.

[1:54:12] Because of that allowance, you are allowed to do community group homes in single family homes,

[1:54:17] assuming you maintain eight or fewer residents because it still is defined as a single household.

[1:54:23] So this facility going to a 12 person occupancy with some additional services provided leads it to have to ask for this exception.

[1:54:32] And that's what it is, it's an exception, not a rezoning.

[1:54:36] So I know that there was some confusion about this opens up the door to more commercial

[1:54:40] uses.

[1:54:41] And that's not the case.

[1:54:42] If the exception were granted, it would be just for that assisted living facility as shown

[1:54:47] in the plans that you're looking at today.

[1:54:49] So it is not a rezoning request or a variance request.

[1:54:53] It's an exception that's written into the zoning code because it is listed under residential

[1:54:58] uses.

[1:54:59] so I'll have to

[1:55:05] So, the big distinction there is that if it is eight residents and they're just living there independently, then yes, it would be allowed. Where you start to gray that line a little bit as if you start having 24-hour staffing and on-site services and things that are associated with something more like a group living facility. So it really depends on how the project is proposed.

[1:55:27] but theoretically, yes, if they just wanted to provide eight rooms for elderly persons to run out individually in a single-family home,

[1:55:37] they could do that under the household definition.

[1:55:47] Those are really good points of clarification.

[1:55:51] There have been comments about things being illegal or rezoning.

[1:55:55] I think it's important to kind of reset and note that the special exception.

[1:56:01] That's why we're here today because a special exception.

[1:56:03] This would be allowed by a special exception, and we are the board that can grant a special exception.

[1:56:09] And they're not asking to rezone.

[1:56:12] They're asking for a special exception on this one property, so.

[1:56:17] And I think it's also my understanding that one of the concerns was if we make an exception,

[1:56:27] then there's always going to be an exception.

[1:56:30] We open up for an exception anywhere and in my short time being on the board, you know, ten months

[1:56:38] Every time I'm coming here there are special exceptions and that's typically the

[1:56:43] vast majority of the applications that I've seen in my time here are special exceptions and they happen all over the city

[1:56:52] So that's another piece that I think was helpful for me to consider

[1:56:57] Yeah

[1:56:59] I think for me, a special exception, it's not allowed, right?

[1:57:05] It's not a variance.

[1:57:06] You're not asking for a use that isn't allowed.

[1:57:09] But you're looking at it on a case-by-case basis.

[1:57:12] Is it appropriate?

[1:57:14] Sure.

[1:57:14] What does the neighbor think?

[1:57:16] What does the neighbor think?

[1:57:18] I think what we've seen is the neighborhood does not want it.

[1:57:23] And to me, I started without even though the amount of letters and I didn't necessarily

[1:57:29] feel like it was appropriate for this neighborhood to begin with before hearing any of the neighbors

[1:57:34] opposition.

[1:57:35] So I think that mindset for me as a special exception is that it's not appropriate for

[1:57:42] this specific location.

[1:57:45] What neighborhoods would you think it is appropriate for?

[1:57:48] What are some of the characteristics of neighborhoods that where it would be appropriate?

[1:57:55] neighborhoods that have more of a commercial buffer between them and the

[1:57:59] neighborhood from a residential standpoint. I mean you'll see along kind of the

[1:58:04] more commercial avenues that there is a step down buffer between the

[1:58:10] residential and just full-on commercial. There is no commercial here. I mean

[1:58:16] there's the golf course across the street but that's not really a commercial use.

[1:58:18] I would show the differ that that's not a commercial use though it cost to be there there are tournaments that sell tickets

[1:58:29] There's restaurants there

[1:58:31] So I I'm not saying that is we are not asking for public comment. Thank you

[1:58:38] We we will ask you to leave if we start hearing more from the group here. We are in discussion. Thank you

[1:58:45] I mean, I think that's a fair point, but it is very low density across the street.

[1:58:50] Yes.

[1:58:51] For when you're asking the question of that, and I start talking about commercial buffers,

[1:58:55] I'm talking more density than necessarily commercial use.

[1:59:00] For me personally, and this shows me.

[1:59:03] I'm wanting to see if there's, for a facility like this, it makes more sense to me to not

[1:59:11] not just jump straight into something that is a higher density, not shielding the residential

[1:59:17] neighbors.

[1:59:18] I think

[1:59:30] that's my main thought is talking to the people in the community that you're

[1:59:37] moving into.

[1:59:38] That's the biggest hang up for me, if you will.

[1:59:43] Sure, just because things are allowed doesn't mean that we should just do it.

[1:59:48] I think that maybe some conversation with the community may help to ease their concerns

[1:59:56] to a point where maybe there is an amicable solution.

[2:00:00] It's a question for both of you, but for me, it's the you really need to probably reach out to the community a little more.

[2:00:08] Yeah, it is always disheartening when it comes to us in this way, that there weren't more

[2:00:15] conversations, because this is obviously a very large property, that it can fit that

[2:00:20] many people.

[2:00:22] I mean, I think that there could be a case, but unfortunately, it's hard for me to see

[2:00:29] how this could work well, based on how we're starting with the neighborhood.

[2:00:36] and that's that really stinks to me. I don't actually,

[2:00:41] this falls into the category of,

[2:00:45] you're going to find a lot of neighborhoods that say that they don't want this,

[2:00:48] because it's change and it's different.

[2:00:51] We as a community are going to have to figure out how to handle this going forward.

[2:00:59] We are going to have a lot of people that cannot age in their homes as they are.

[2:01:03] So, I would really love to see this work in our community, you know, across our community.

[2:01:15] And I don't have a huge issue with this necessarily today, but it is causing me pause because

[2:01:25] the community is so outspoken about this, and that worries me.

[2:01:29] Yeah, I agree the lack of community engagement is a major pain point here. I'd say if there was community engagement and then people the same number of people still opposed. I feel like that puts us in a different decision making mode.

[2:01:49] I think if there was community engagement and, you know, only a third of the numbers,

[2:01:54] you know, were opposed.

[2:01:57] I think that puts us in a much different decision making mode, but without any community

[2:02:02] engagement for, you know, yes, there's a special exception and so it doesn't have the threshold

[2:02:11] of needing a hardship that is not self-imposed.

[2:02:14] It's written into the zoning code as permissible but without talking to the neighbors that really puts us in a tough position.

[2:02:25] It puts me in a tough position.

[2:02:27] Yeah, that's how I feel, too.

[2:02:29] Yeah, unfortunate.

[2:02:33] So where does that leave us?

[2:02:37] It leaves us with voting now or you going back and talking to the people in the community to see if there's something that you guys can do, we can hear it again.

[2:02:49] I hate to continue. It just was so many people showed up this time and then.

[2:02:53] What did they show up just because it's a no or just because they didn't know?

[2:02:58] I think we heard both.

[2:02:59] I mean, I don't want to discount anybody's feelings or reasons why they're here.

[2:03:06] I've been here a lot of times when people are here and they're confused.

[2:03:09] I don't feel like this crowd is confused.

[2:03:13] Okay. Well, I don't want to call you.

[2:03:15] I just want to make sure everybody I know I appreciate that about you Rosbeck. I think

[2:03:21] Confusion to me is a is a case for continuance, but this does not feel like a confused

[2:03:26] K group of people

[2:03:28] It's my that's my thought on this sure. I don't I'm guess I'm less

[2:03:34] thinking that

[2:03:35] The people who have showed up don't know

[2:03:38] What an assisted living facility is? I'm more interested in

[2:03:43] is there an operations plan for the applicant that would be in more harmony with the existing

[2:03:53] residents and the community. And so that's where my thinking around a

[2:03:59] continuance and giving the applicant or making it a requirement that the applicant does engage

[2:04:06] with the community. And then on the other end, it might be the exact same, you know, like

[2:04:10] reasons for opposition, maybe the applicant will not change anything, maybe the applicant

[2:04:15] will come back with a lower number, you know, I feel like there are a variety of things

[2:04:20] where, you know, in my time here, I have seen applicants come back with an amended application

[2:04:27] based on community engagement.

[2:04:31] To be clear, I'm not against a continuance.

[2:04:34] I do think that it doesn't mean that we didn't hear you all today and that that doesn't still

[2:04:40] carry forward, but it would give a chance for everyone to come together and maybe the

[2:04:44] neighborhood association to host something for you to make a different case.

[2:04:49] I don't know if you feel, I don't know if the applicant would feel like it could benefit

[2:04:58] for a continuance or not.

[2:05:00] But, and I don't even know that we would vote for one. Yeah, we'd have to vote for it, too, so that it might even get passed. I mean, well, as it stands, I don't think it would get passed. Okay. Thinking about it. Yeah. It's just four of us.

[2:05:19] You're a no on a continuance. Yeah. I mean, I think we've seen what we're going to say. Maybe. It's a money thing they can reapply, but I mean, they can always go back and meet with the neighborhood and then reapply.

[2:05:33] Yeah. I don't want to drag it out. Yeah. I do feel I do hear Mr. Hale on quite a

[2:05:42] lot of people came out today and spent a lot of their time and probably took

[2:05:46] off work to be here and it's not fair to drag something out. So I do lean

[2:05:50] towards that. Okay. I know you're on the fence for us. Yeah. Because I want

[2:05:54] world peace.

[2:05:57] I mean, I do too. I don't know why I had to liken it up a little bit of skin

[2:06:06] tint in here.

[2:06:09] Well, I will be willing to entertain any motion. I don't. It does not look

[2:06:17] like we have three votes for this. I'm open to any motion.

[2:06:21] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So. Well, you know, I love making motions. Madam Chair and Board of Adjustment Case 24-094, I move to deny a special exception to permit a an

[2:06:34] assistive living facility in the RS1 District.

[2:06:39] The Board finds that the special exception will not be in harmony with

[2:06:55] the

[2:06:55] I'll say I can't make him a big, got a second.

[2:06:58] All right, so all those in favor of a denial vote, yes.

[2:07:04] It's Dumas.

[2:07:06] No.

[2:07:07] Ms. Williams.

[2:07:09] Lipstay.

[2:07:10] Mr. Hale.

[2:07:13] Yes.

[2:07:17] Although no, but it doesn't matter.

[2:07:19] You're right.

[2:07:20] So we will not be taking action on this case today.

[2:07:24] Unless you have any other motions to make?

[2:07:27] Does anyone have another motion to make?

[2:07:30] So it means it's denied.

[2:07:34] Yeah, I'd say it was not approved.

[2:07:36] Yeah, if we failed to take any action today, then it's effectively not approved, therefore the case would stop here.

[2:07:45] Does the case stay open, meaning could they ask for a continuance at this point, or does it?

[2:07:50] I think it's up here.

[2:07:52] It's only at the discretion of the board at this point.

[2:07:54] If somebody wanted to make another motion to continue

[2:07:56] and see if you get three votes, you could do that.

[2:08:00] But yeah, I would say at this time,

[2:08:03] you've just failed to act on the application,

[2:08:05] and so therefore nothing has been approved.

[2:08:07] OK, so I could entertain any other motions

[2:08:10] if anyone has one, but

[2:08:14] OK.

[2:08:17] I think we will move on to the next case.

[2:08:20] We are in case number 10, board of just one case.

[2:08:23] item number 10 on the agenda. Board of Adjustment Case 24095. We'll give just

[2:08:31] a few minutes for the gallery to clear.

[2:08:48] Here are next applicant.

[2:08:51] Look at the draw.

[2:09:02] Okay if you guys could quietly exit please we need to

[2:09:06] move on to the next case. Thank you.

[2:09:12] Okay, sounds good.

[2:09:18] Okay, so yes, yes, and we are

[2:09:23] down to three board members because one is recusing themselves. So I'll say before we get

[2:09:30] started here, you can ask for a contingent, ask staff for a contingent, so you can take

[2:09:35] your chances with the three of us. You would need all three votes to pass.

[2:09:42] And you don't

[2:09:42] to decide for Continience right at this moment you could we could do that later

[2:09:47] too if we needed to. As far as we can get. So we can talk about it, see how you

[2:09:51] feel and then we'll decide based on. Great. All right. Item 10 is BOA 2-4-0-9-5,

[2:09:58] locations 109 North Detroit Avenue.

[2:10:00] New. Applicant Monica Swanee with CDS development requesting a variance of the minimum lot area of one acre for a school established after January 1, 1998.

[2:10:10] Okay, so name, address, and a little bit about your case, please. Great. I'm JC Fisher. I'm the executive vice president of operations for Alpha School, we're at 2028 East Bend White Boulevard in Austin, Texas, 78741. Our cases fairly straightforward and we are requesting a single

[2:10:29] Several narrow variants from the minimum lot size of one acre for a school established

[2:10:33] after January 1st, 1998, established in section 40.350-b of the Tulsa zoning code.

[2:10:40] Our use is permitted by right in a CBD district.

[2:10:43] It's only the minimum lot size that is a challenge.

[2:10:46] We believe we've established that we meet all five criteria for the granting of a variance

[2:10:51] under section 70.130.

[2:10:53] I'll run through them briefly, and then I don't really have much more to say.

[2:10:58] It's an unnecessary hardship, not merely convenience.

[2:11:02] This is because the physical boundary controls the lot size.

[2:11:05] It's surrounded on all sides by streets, public rights of way, and other buildings.

[2:11:10] So it's not like we could have gotten a different lot, or a bigger lot, or a different location for it.

[2:11:14] We cannot expand the lot reasonably.

[2:11:17] Two is literal enforcement is not needed for the provisions purpose.

[2:11:22] Our research indicates the standard exists to manage traffic and impact on the local community.

[2:11:27] We've done a traffic impact analysis pre-work with the city at a 50 student enrollment.

[2:11:32] We don't even require a further traffic study because the traffic impact is so minimal that the city doesn't want any wasted time on additional analysis or kind of like going around and spending time on it.

[2:11:43] Three conditions unique to the property.

[2:11:46] So this is a condominium rented within the Detroit Lofts building on a lot-size fixed like 100 years before the 1998 standard, I believe was when it was platted.

[2:11:58] So it's because of the size of the lot on the property.

[2:12:04] For, it's not created or self-imposed by the applicant.

[2:12:07] Again, I just plotted over 100 years ago.

[2:12:09] We're a tenant.

[2:12:10] We did not create the lot.

[2:12:11] We did not subdivide the lot.

[2:12:13] And we did not reduce the lot to introduce this hardship

[2:12:15] to the situation.

[2:12:17] Finally, we asked for minimum relief and demonstrated no harm

[2:12:21] to the neighborhood or public good.

[2:12:22] We're asking for relief only from the minimum lot size.

[2:12:26] No other variances, no setbacks, no other issues.

[2:12:28] We've met the code, we've worked through the city planning, zoning, building department,

[2:12:32] fire and life safety with everybody, and I have no other relief requested.

[2:12:39] I'm happy to answer any questions or anything I can.

[2:12:42] I can start, I have a couple of questions.

[2:12:45] In my research that the minimum lot size is there to make sure that things for

[2:12:51] the well-being of children in a school are there.

[2:12:55] So traffic is one of them.

[2:12:57] I'd love to hear more about like a drop-off pickup plan,

[2:12:59] how that works, how are kids eating?

[2:13:03] Is there a cafeteria in this building?

[2:13:04] I mean, how is that working playgrounds for recess?

[2:13:08] We have a recess mandate in Oklahoma now.

[2:13:10] I don't know if that applies to charter schools.

[2:13:12] It may not, but how, so I understand

[2:13:17] that the lot size seems kind of arbitrary,

[2:13:18] but it's to make sure that all the things

[2:13:21] to take care of children and their well-being is met inherently in the on the lot. So I would

[2:13:33] love to hear more in-depth about that.

[2:13:38] I thought I heard three things, but I wrote down play and food.

[2:13:41] Was there a... Yeah, well, I have traffic. Yeah, I'm just curious because it's a very busy, it's not,

[2:13:47] it's no longer fully one way, but that's a really confusing street right there because it changed

[2:13:52] to two-way going one direction and one-way over the bridge and one-way coming on the side of it.

[2:13:56] That's confusing so I'm just curious like how are we backed up? I know what my kids elementary

[2:14:02] school looks like and it's perfect. Yes I if I without like projecting I imagine your kids elementary

[2:14:07] schools like a full-size real school. No it's in an urban it's it's a weird urban one-way and it's

[2:14:14] I feel like you know the enrollment. A 480. Yeah so we we kept it 50. Sure. It's like help solve a

[2:14:21] lot of those problems. We have 22 kids who are enrolled right now in families who

[2:14:24] want to come try our model. So what we've actually already worked out is with

[2:14:29] the neighboring hotel. There's an alleyway that is shared between the two

[2:14:35] properties. That's multiple lanes that we can have a full pickup drop off right

[2:14:39] just straight through. That's right next to the school. You don't even have to

[2:14:43] get out on the other side of the car.

[2:14:47] So pickup drop is actually like super easy.

[2:14:50] Yeah, there's also a ton of parking spots along the front of that street in our area. So between that and then there's a lot

[2:15:00] I'm kind of next to what's called one oak stadium where the driller's play that some of the parents have said, hey, if you don't want us to wait to pick our kids up if we're early right next to the school, we can wait in the lot that's over there and we'll just come by 10 minutes later if I was early. Okay, just just. I appreciate it when our parents are reasonable. They aren't always play. There is what's the name of the park. It's not restoration park.

[2:15:32] It's a very short walk. It only crosses that one one-way street and then goes under the bridge right there to get to it

[2:15:38] We also have already turfed over a portion for a quick play right outside. Okay, so again

[2:15:44] We have class sizes. It's 22 kids K through eight. So you're looking at like five or six kids per class size right now

[2:15:51] They can run outside and we have fences and safe area and turf green area for them to play already.

[2:15:58] Food parents bring our cater food for their kids and we have a big fridge to store what's needed and have to take place on site.

[2:16:07] And I think the occupancy of the building is over a hundred.

[2:16:13] I would have to look at, I have it somewhere in our application or in my files.

[2:16:17] but we have an enrollment of 22 right now and our capacity plans for the

[2:16:23] building are up to 50 students. 50 students and then how many staff does that?

[2:16:28] Staff is I think that's like eight staff. Eight staff, okay. We average a little less

[2:16:36] than one to ten student teacher and then there's a security guard, a campus

[2:16:41] coordinator handles operations and just needs on-site and then sometimes you

[2:16:44] have something to like me visit just to like make things are going well.

[2:16:46] I'm sure we're taking things and then we have our mission's person, okay,

[2:16:56] okay, play food.

[2:16:57] Did I answer all three, throw away enough for you?

[2:17:01] Yes, okay, sorry. I'm like a list person, so that's just

[2:17:05] So

[2:17:11] you're already the tenant is sounds like you're saying, okay

[2:17:16] But you're not yet running and operating the K through eight because we don't have the variance and the

[2:17:23] Official approvals and the building department is waiting on this one. I actually if I go back and like look through everything

[2:17:28] We checked everything with planning and zoning and building and everybody on the city side and our side

[2:17:34] Didn't notice the minimum lot size until we were doing the final check for the building code application

[2:17:39] Sure, and they were kind enough to actually get us on the agenda

[2:17:42] Quickly rather than you know however long it takes sometimes to go through

[2:17:47] We made sure we had the application thoroughly vetted same day and they're very helpful to let us get before you guys

[2:17:52] Yes.

[2:17:58] All right.

[2:17:58] And the enrollment cap of 50, it seems like that's something you would be comfortable

[2:18:04] with if we have.

[2:18:05] If you guys want to formalize it, sure.

[2:18:07] Yeah.

[2:18:07] That's fine.

[2:18:09] If we wanted to, if we took the, it's like a building split into two.

[2:18:15] If the people who own it are leasing the other half to us, if the school is successful and

[2:18:20] people love it and Tulsa is like, happy with it, we'd be happy to come back if we needed

[2:18:24] an adjusted plan or if we needed to do something to change that cap or to do the other side

[2:18:28] of the building, we like stage things all the time across the country so.

[2:18:33] Okay.

[2:18:33] How many square feet is the building, or is the space that you're renting?

[2:18:38] Do you know?

[2:18:39] I don't off the top of my head if I can refer to our application or actually I can check

[2:18:43] my system.

[2:18:44] Do you guys mind if I use my phone to check something?

[2:18:46] No.

[2:18:47] Sorry.

[2:18:48] I'm not trying to ask.

[2:18:49] You're totally fine.

[2:18:51] I'm not trying to stump you.

[2:18:57] I was debating a world peace joke when I first came to the video and I was like, I don't know, they're all still in the room.

[2:19:05] Too thin.

[2:19:06] Yeah, just kidding.

[2:19:16] Because I think to me, as you're looking at having a cap of 50 means that point to acre

[2:19:24] makes more sense than even if you broke down the walls and expanded to the other half

[2:19:32] and then you're at 200, 250, then you might want a different conversation and that would

[2:19:38] require a traffic analysis and a traffic plan and all these other things.

[2:19:43] Yeah.

[2:19:43] What's kind of where I was getting at, too, when just square footage, like 50 students and how much it is.

[2:19:48] I think the point of all this is to make sure kids are...

[2:19:51] 3,759 square feet for us, and the full lot area is 8,700 square feet.

[2:20:00] The building that we are taking is $37.59.

[2:20:33] Okay.

[2:20:42] Any other questions? No, they're good. Okay, I think we're good. Anyone else in the gallery that would like to speak on this.

[2:20:55] Seeing none, we will move into discussion.

[2:21:01] Knowing that they have a seem to have a good game plan for the size of the amount of students and the school footage. I'm okay with that.

[2:21:09] Okay sure.

[2:21:15] I can make a motion. Yes, please. Okay. Madam Chair and BOA case 24095 I moved to approve a variance to reduce the minimum lot area for schools established on or after January 1st 1998 from 1 acre to 0.2 acres for the conceptual plans shown on 10.11 of the agenda packet.

[2:21:41] the board finds the hardship to be the

[2:21:49] size of the lot.

[2:22:02] Okay, wait, I need to add the condition, I'm sorry.

[2:22:05] So I moved to approve a variance to reduce the minimum lot area for

[2:22:09] school established on or after January 1st, 1998 from 1 acre to 2 acre.

[2:22:14] For the conceptual plan shown on 10.11 subject to the following conditions.

[2:22:18] that the student enrollment is capped at 50 students.

[2:22:25] The board finds the hardship to be the existing lot size.

[2:22:32] In granting the variance, the board finds that the following facts favorable to the

[2:22:35] property owner have been established that the physical surrounding shape or topographical

[2:22:40] conditions of the subject property would result in unnecessary hardships or practical difficulties

[2:22:45] for the property owner as distinguished from a mere inconvenience if the strict letter

[2:22:49] of the regulations were carried out that literal enforcement of the subject's zoning code provision

[2:22:54] is not necessary to achieve the provisions intended purpose that the conditions leading

[2:22:58] to the need of the requested variance are unique to the subject property and not applicable

[2:23:02] generally to other property within the same zoning classification that the alleged practical

[2:23:08] difficulty or unnecessary hardship was not created or self-employed by the current property

[2:23:12] honor that the variance to be granted is the minimum variance that will afford relief

[2:23:17] that the variance to be granted will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood

[2:23:21] in which the subject property is located nor substantially or permanently impair use

[2:23:25] or development of adjacent property and G that the variance to be granted will not call

[2:23:31] substantial detriment to the public good or impair the purposes, spirit and intent of the

[2:23:36] zoning code or the comprehensive plan.

[2:23:39] Do I have a second?

[2:23:41] Second.

[2:23:42] Okay.

[2:23:42] All those in favor, Ms. Dumas?

[2:23:44] Yes.

[2:23:45] Ms. Williams?

[2:23:46] Yes.

[2:23:46] And I also vote yes.

[2:23:48] So motion carries.

[2:23:50] We have gotten to the end of our agenda.

[2:23:54] Do we have any comments from the board?

[2:23:57] No.

[2:23:59] Okay.

[2:24:00] No comments.

[2:24:01] then we are adjourned at 3.29 p.m.

Board of Adjustment

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