[0:53] Okay, good evening, everyone. Sorry, that was a loud. Good evening, everyone. Tonight we are having a work session, September 15th, 2025. We have three things on the agenda tonight. The first is we're going to go over the legislative agenda, 2026. The second is we are going to talk about the capital improvement plan for 2026 through 2042. And then we are going to review supplemental appropriations for fiscal year 2024.

[1:23] We're 25 and then if there's anything else anyone wants to talk about, we'll have an opportunity

[1:29] to do that.

[1:31] Town Manager.

[1:32] Yes, Madam Mayor, members of the Town Council.

[1:34] And that open discussion on one thing that we talked about last week was the comprehensive

[1:38] plan scheduling.

[1:40] Oh, sorry.

[1:41] Yes, one thing we mentioned last week was the comprehensive plan scheduling.

[1:45] So that could be that part of that open discussion if you wanted to do that.

[1:52] Okay, perfect.

[1:53] All right.

[1:53] All right, let's get to the legislative agenda and we'll go to our town attorney, Steve.

[1:58] Good

[2:01] evening, everybody.

[2:03] The first item on your work session is the proposed draft 2026 legislative agenda.

[2:11] So what I do and have done in the past and what I did here is on the draft agenda I include everything,

[2:19] included in the order that Council presented it and voted on for priorities last year.

[2:26] If there's something highlighted or marked or commented on, those are things, you know,

[2:32] that I would bring to your attention.

[2:35] And then at the end, there's a couple of proposed new items, a couple from Councilmember

[2:42] Anderson and one from Councilmember Remekis that we will get to.

[2:46] So, you know, some of these things, as you know, take a while and the way the General Assembly works is you get consensus, you get other jurisdictions to help you out.

[2:56] So just because a bill gets introduced, thousands of bills get introduced and not that many pass.

[3:02] Some get sent for study commissions. Some have to be studied because they have a fiscal impact.

[3:09] And the General Assembly is not going to pass them unless that's been reviewed and they figure out where the money comes from.

[3:13] And then summer, what I would call just housekeeping measures, amendments that no one's going to have a problem with, and those are usually not as big of an issue.

[3:24] The ones that are bigger issues, the ones that affect multiple jurisdictions and some have lightning rods to them.

[3:33] So number one, starting off is the town's position of opposing the establishment of full gambling casinos in Fairfax County, and that's been something that's been coming around.

[3:46] It was defeated last year, but it's expected to come back in some shape or form.

[3:52] So that's what that is, and that language is from the adopted language that council put forth last year.

[3:58] Number two is the really, it says poses any bill that reduces and eliminates local land use authority, but this was targeted primarily at the accessory dwelling unit legislation that was floating around various versions were floating around the town of Vienna was looking at it on its own and some other jurisdictions that the town was looking at on how it worked to see if we could implement in the town.

[4:24] And so, with Senator Saleem's assistance, if the town had adopted an ordinance before a certain date and that would preclude the state requirements for requiring certain provisions in your zoning ordinance.

[4:40] So, that's highlighted because unless you all want to just modify this and tweak it, I mean, I don't think the General Assembly will take it up again.

[4:50] that what they generally do when they pass a statute that covers it and mandates certain things.

[4:57] They give it a few years before they tweak it unless-

[5:00] There's some real something that they found out was really not working well, and then they'll agree to make adjustments to it. I haven't heard any issues. I mean, some jurisdictions wish they had more guidance, and wish they knew how it worked better is what I'm hearing, but at this point, the town has an ordinance, and we're not expecting any amendments to the state statute. I haven't heard about that yet. Number three is relating to trees. Now, this council is well aware.

[5:29] Where we, the town adopted this most strict, strictest form, and I would say the most

[5:36] probably overused word, but most progressive ordinance that were allowed to under the

[5:42] State Enabling Language, so we're in district, planning district 8, it's basically

[5:46] north of Virginia.

[5:48] And so we're allowed to adopt ordinances that have the provisions permitted under Chapter

[5:54] After 15, 2, 961.1, the only other jurisdiction in the Commonwealth and in the planning district that is a similar ordinance, it is Garfax County.

[6:03] And the towns is subtly different, but significantly the same as Garfax counties when it relates to percentage of tree canopy.

[6:12] What some things we've been pushing for in the past, in which I would suggest maybe if you want to keep this on here in some shape,

[6:19] is the tree canopy being established in 10 years rather than 20 years.

[6:25] And there's some jurisdictions who were grandfathered, they had provisions in place

[6:29] before the General Assembly adopted mandated, well, limitations on tree ordinances,

[6:36] tree-save ordinances in 1990, but that is something that some jurisdictions have.

[6:43] And it might be something that would be, it's gotten a little bit attraction.

[6:46] the 10-year canopy is opposed to establishing it in 20 years.

[6:51] I don't think it's ever gotten to a four, but one year it got to a four vote, and I think it failed in the other house.

[6:56] So we got close one year.

[6:58] And, you know, we have a 961.1 ordinance, so we'd want it to apply to that.

[7:04] We've asked for it in both sections, so it would apply to other places across the state.

[7:08] But if you do 961.1, it would only apply to Plenty District Day, which means we'd only really apply to Fairfax County.

[7:14] because that's the only other jurisdiction than as it now.

[7:17] False Church has a grandfather tree ordinance, and I haven't heard that they're planning on tweaking it.

[7:23] But if they had some additional tools, they might want to use it, other jurisdictions.

[7:27] So we might have some allies as what I'm saying, if you wanted to leave that in there.

[7:30] But the rest of it, I would submit, unless we get a recommendation from the CSE of the attack,

[7:37] maybe adding to 10% trying to get that again.

[7:42] You know, number four relates to funding from the North of Virginia Transportation Authority.

[7:52] The town's been very fortunate in getting the discretionary funds, so 70% are earmarked for specific types of projects.

[8:00] Then there's a 30% of the taxes that are collected that are allowed to go to transportation related, much broader definition.

[8:08] And the town has been fortunate in getting in Fairfax County to get them credit as helped the town obtain funding.

[8:17] And primarily where we've been able to use it is for sidewalks and other projects because we're not building new roads.

[8:23] And there's only so many stacking lanes we can expand without doing takings of property, which can be difficult in cities and towns where you have established businesses and residences.

[8:33] So, but we've had this in for a number of years to add the new sidewalk projects as eligible for the full funding.

[8:44] But that's something that we could, it comes with a little bit of opposition for whatever reason I do not know.

[8:53] I think some of the folks down in General Assembly want to make sure that that transportation funding is definitely going to building roads.

[9:02] Number five, this is the local road maintenance funding formula.

[9:10] We do a lot of revenue sharing with VDOT where they do matches 5050s and

[9:14] there are grants that are even higher and some road rebuilds like cottage years ago was rebuilt with a 98-2% or VDOT does 98% of the funding.

[9:25] a road was done with that kind of program.

[9:27] So there are projects that the town can apply for, but that's for construction of new roads, or rebuilds, rather.

[9:39] For road maintenance, the town gets a certain percentage based on its lane miles.

[9:44] And it's never really been related to how much the roads are used and

[9:48] there,

[9:52] and when you have extreme traffic like we do, our side roads get more usage, so just

[9:59] just rather than have-

[10:00] Having our contribution by lane miles, you know, basically we've asked for some type of formula that would take into account average traffic volumes. And I had some proposed language I came up with. And so that's been on our legislative program for many years.

[10:17] You know, you think some of the other urban suburban areas would jump in on this remarkably, they don't for whatever reason are very parochial about their funding.

[10:25] And but I think, you know, I think this is a good worthy cause, and I, you know, if the end is going to be the jurisdiction that keeps submitting it until the Dodd and the legislators say there's probably a better way to fund the maintenance portion of the road funding.

[10:45] So number five is one of those that, you know, like when is it ever going to pass?

[10:49] It's hard to know if somebody will take it up probably and it will get out of committee.

[10:55] Number six was related to the vaping restrictions and sale of nicotine vaping products.

[11:04] There has been some legislation governing that and restricting it within so many feet,

[11:10] 1,000 feet of schools is in the code now for these vaping tobacco stores.

[11:18] I haven't heard if there's going to be any lobbying to change that.

[11:22] Some of this was related to not only the spread and increase in number of vaping

[11:28] tobacco stores, smoke stores.

[11:33] I think a lot of them opened with the thought that if marijuana was fully legalized,

[11:39] Just for recreational use that they would be applying for those licenses, that has not happened for a variety of reasons because the ability to implement a tax system where it's going to be, how it's going to be collected and also some of the health implications of recreational use of marijuana and THC has been, I think, come back around and people aren't so sure that that's a good idea.

[12:05] So you're seeing a lot of states, including Virginia's slowing down on the fully,

[12:10] fully deep, it's been decriminalized, but it's still a civil violation to possess marijuana

[12:17] and to sell it, except with for medicinal purposes, it's still not permitted fully in Virginia.

[12:25] So this may have been kind of addressed by two things.

[12:29] One, there was legislation about the proximity to schools and the other is just a market

[12:35] issue in a statutory hurdles that, you know, so we may, in theory, see fewer of these shops as,

[12:44] you know, the prospect of legalization is delayed.

[12:49] So when you're talking about your priorities, one, we probably need to tweak the language

[12:54] in this and two, you can determine where you want it in priorities.

[12:58] Number seven is just a public procurement issue.

[13:00] some years ago, the General Assembly without really talking to anybody, took out certain

[13:06] types of contracts where you could ride them, use cooperative procurement provisions.

[13:15] So if one locality put out that they wanted to do unit costs for certain types

[13:19] of construction contracts, that other jurisdictions could jump on those, but they put a limit

[13:28] on them, and what the town has said, well, we understand, you know, you want to protect

[13:35] people, you know, businesses that are able to put in bids and have some, you know,

[13:40] competition among contractors, but, you know, there's certain types of work, nuts and

[13:44] bolts work that the towns and cities do, especially the smaller ones, that they could

[13:49] ride a contract, that a contractor, local contractors, given a really good price to say

[13:54] a bigger county or a bigger city, it would save a lot of money.

[13:58] The General Assembly has taken this off.

[14:00] It's made it out of committee, but it's never been able to be passed.

[14:04] And some of the small business lobbyists and interests lobby heavily against it.

[14:11] And so I think the construction industry is kind of split because some of their members

[14:16] are fine with it and other ones aren't.

[14:18] So you get mixed bag of who's against it every year.

[14:22] A is just a policy statement really, but it does and other jurisdictions, you know,

[14:31] that are, you know, local government and local governance is, you know, people

[14:36] assume that's where, you know, you can do whatever you want to address the interests

[14:41] of your community within boundaries, well, as you all know, Virginia is the opposite.

[14:46] that the general assembly doesn't enable you to pass regulations or rules for your locality.

[14:53] You can't do it.

[14:54] So that's the Dillon rule.

[14:57] Virginia is by far...

[15:00] And the minority on that, there's only a handful of states, I want to say a handful, I think it's six that do that. All other states, the powers are reserved to the local governments if it's not prohibited by the General Assembly or their state house. So it's the opposite in Virginia. And so last year that was on our agenda, it's been on our agenda before too. Number nine is revenue sharing, which has been very, has been very helpful to the town. We're fortunate to have a

[15:29] a relatively stable tax base, and so the capital improvement, as I know, you all know, as you're planning for things,

[15:39] you know, you have a schedule and the town has been able to reasonably keep things on schedule.

[15:44] But if you can get some revenue sharing, it helps the town fund those projects.

[15:51] And so that's always been a priority.

[15:55] Number 10, his newspaper leader.

[15:58] They have tweaked this, and the General Assembly, I think, is a nod to the localities

[16:04] that say, you know, we don't even have a local newspaper anymore, or they don't

[16:08] really have general circulation.

[16:09] That language is still in the State ordinance.

[16:12] A newspaper having general circulation.

[16:14] They did add that if it doesn't, then you can do, you know, their online circulation

[16:20] counts.

[16:22] The problem I have from a legal perspective, and no one has, I think, in my mind a good

[16:27] for toward or response to this argument is that's not where people are looking for the legal ads.

[16:34] When you're advertising a public hearing for increases for taxes, a public hearing for a rezoning, a public hearing for your planning commission,

[16:42] and they really need to come up with a clearinghouse for localities or everybody knows where they can see the information.

[16:51] The newspaper lobby lobbies heavily against this, so even though it seems like, you know,

[16:58] a common sense layup provision, you know, logic doesn't always prevail when there's special interest involved.

[17:07] And there is, you know, this concept that newspapers, you know, the free presses were the goal to help.

[17:13] But at the end of the day, it's advertising dollars.

[17:15] These are for profit entities.

[17:17] There's, I think, another way that localities could get their legal notices out,

[17:21] which would be more effective and more transparent, but maybe one day.

[17:27] Number 11 is something that's always on the town's legislative agenda.

[17:33] The 599 funding applies to localities that have their own police departments.

[17:37] Because if you don't have your own police department, the sheriff's office,

[17:41] And that's your constitutionally elected officer, the sheriff in our jurisdiction.

[17:46] And we have a constitutionally elected sheriff in Fairfax County.

[17:49] But if you have a local police department, then the sheriff's office takes a different role in law enforcement.

[17:56] And your local police department becomes the primary law enforcement agency.

[18:02] And so we have in the town, the town police department, Fairfax County as a Fairfax County police department.

[18:07] So, because the Sheriff's Office is relieved of that primary obligation, the State

[18:13] funds provides a stipend to the town to offset those costs.

[18:19] It's not full funding, but it's partial funding.

[18:22] And in some years, that's one of the first things they borrow from to balance the budget.

[18:27] And as you all know, the State has to balance its budget.

[18:30] But I think from the locality's perspective, it's like, you know, we're not balancing

[18:34] the budget on the backs of public safety, we establish, you know, our police departments and their

[18:39] perpetual departments. So making sure that full funding, there hasn't been a cut back or reduction in

[18:47] the funding, but when we say full funding, there's a schedule of, you know, adjusting for inflation. So

[18:52] you have to watch that out, watch for that, too. So some years in the past, they haven't cut it, but

[18:57] they haven't given the increases that adjusted for inflation. So the town would always support full

[19:03] funding with appropriate adjustments.

[19:05] Number 12 is the qualified immunity and changes to sovereign immunity.

[19:13] There was a movement a few years ago to take away or severely modify qualified

[19:19] immunity and making changes to sovereign immunity.

[19:23] I think the best way to describe what that is, what qualified immunity and sovereign

[19:28] immunity is for localities is we're not like a private entity.

[19:32] The localities are not profit-making ventures.

[19:36] They don't carry the same kind of insurance.

[19:39] And basically, as I will say, sometimes people think I'm making fun of them.

[19:46] When they say I'm going to sue the locality because they didn't do or did something

[19:48] they think is wrong, I'm like, you're suing yourself.

[19:51] And that's where the concept comes from.

[19:53] I mean, you all are the government of the people, they're not your sidewalks,

[19:59] meaning the 10-

[20:00] Council sidewalks. There's the town people sidewalks. So, you know, we do, we do, the town does maintain its sidewalks and its facilities, but if there's a dangerous condition, it needs to be reported and the town fixes it. And so the obligation and duty of care is completely different for a locality and a government than it is for private entity, for a restaurant or for any other operation. The town does have municipal liability insurance, and there are, those things are covered, but qualified immunity.

[20:29] And sovereignity are very important to localities.

[20:34] And so last year there really wasn't anything that gained traction, but

[20:39] there's a group of plaintiffs, lawyers that like to sue localities, and

[20:42] they would love to have this changed.

[20:44] It would adversely impact a lot of the operations and add costs.

[20:50] Costs that the private sector doesn't have to provide police forces.

[20:55] The private sector doesn't have to prepare the roads.

[20:58] So, you know, these are things and plow the snow and so, if you undermine those, those qualified and sovereignty provisions, you're going to increase those costs.

[21:11] 13 is there have been modifications to FOIA for open meeting provisions to accommodate virtual remote participation and public hearings in the town during COVID adopted.

[21:24] I would say a very good ordinance, we worked with a number of other jurisdictions to come up with a methodology

[21:30] to where, you know, you could come and testify live, but you could also do it remotely.

[21:35] Well, some of those things made it into the amendments to the FOIA and open meetings.

[21:39] What they don't necessarily help is with the elected public officials.

[21:45] So, boards and commissions are able to adopt remote participation resolutions where they can have more flexibility.

[21:51] But the elected public officials still have to have a physical quorum.

[21:56] As you all know, if you have a medical emergency or you're treating, helping a family member that's being treated for medical conditions.

[22:02] Those are on the books you can participate remotely.

[22:05] If you have a work related issue, you're allowed so many per year, and that's in our resolution now.

[22:12] We need to update that every year now, that was a change last year, so we're going to have that in front of you shortly to have that just re-adopted.

[22:19] The town council right now's resolution does the most that you can do, but one thing that other jurisdictions have asked for is maybe tweaking the number of meetings you can attend remotely.

[22:34] Medical conditions aren't the issue, it's if you have, you know, work issues and you travel for your work, so it would make it easy.

[22:40] And then, you know, I think for the elected public bodies, I think there's probably going to always have a quorum requirement that you have to have a quorum of live people present, but that might be something you want to keep on the agenda for the legislative agenda.

[22:59] 13 is proposed amendments to accommodate, oh, I'm sorry, we just talked about that.

[23:05] 14 is the plastic bag tax.

[23:10] There was some ambiguity when it was done, and Mr. Town manager, do they fix that?

[23:16] I thought there was a bill, I can't remember of that pass, and I apologize, I meant to check on this one.

[23:22] Do you recall if they amended that with some real simple language, because right now it's ambiguous.

[23:27] Okay, I will check on that to see if we got that.

[23:32] Mr. Barlow is the director of finance here.

[23:35] Are we getting any plastic bag tax money or not?

[23:39] So the county's not going to do it voluntarily, is that correct?

[23:45] All right, so we didn't start getting it in July.

[23:47] That bill didn't pass.

[23:48] I'll double check on that.

[23:50] And that's for taxes that are collected in the town of Vienna.

[23:53] So the plastic bag tax was collected in Vienna.

[23:57] And the argument is that the funds should come back here.

[24:00] There are strings attached to how you can use those funds.

[24:03] It's primarily for recycling and conservation issues.

[24:08] So I just say they're 2000 a day, which actually could easily be the case.

[24:13] That's $72,000 a year, that's real money.

[24:16] At $0.10 a bag, so basically, this sounds like we should be asking the county about.

[24:24] We have, do your county, where's our money?

[24:27] I think the answer, the answers that I usually get is indirectly they are giving it back to us because we are part of the county and so that they are doing good things with the money and that we are benefiting.

[24:38] I'm just telling you what I've kind of heard and I'm not going to say who said that but, but, you know, right, we could, I think we should keep it on.

[24:49] Yeah, that's by statute.

[24:50] The same provisions in this, for the sales tax, language is not in the plastic bag

[24:55] for nobody knew why.

[24:56] Yeah.

[24:57] Because there's a lot of similar language, and I, no-

[25:00] I asked the people that were involved and they don't think that was intentional. They think it was just, they had some language and they, yes, and so there is, it's by school age, children is how that's the sales tax is shared. And that goes to towns, but for whatever reason, the plastic bag tax didn't have that same language. And it doesn't preclude the county from giving it to the town, but they've taken the position they'd rather have the language and the enabling statute.

[25:28] Just put that language in one, right in here.

[25:33] 15,

[25:38] this is one that we've had for many years that this Virginia Constitution,

[25:44] and I put it in here to remind our state legislatures.

[25:47] A lot of times these telecommunications and public service utility companies lobby

[25:52] the General Assembly for accessing use of public property.

[25:58] Well, under the Constitution, not by statute, under the Constitution, the local government

[26:04] attorney, a local government authority, rather, which is you all, are, are, have to

[26:09] make sure that the use of the right away is done in an orderly fashion, and if it's

[26:15] least or used for a private purpose, there has to be either a franchise or there has

[26:21] to be a lease and it has to be publicly advertised.

[26:23] Well, some of those entities I mentioned will go to the General Assembly and say,

[26:30] well, we don't think we should be paying what all these jurisdictions are saying,

[26:34] the license fee, and they've worked some of these things out for uses of the right

[26:38] away, but some, there's still some gray area, and they just want the right to use the

[26:42] right away without going through what I would argue or the constitutionally required

[26:47] provisions, and sometimes they get some traction.

[26:49] And at the end of the day, it's basically an in-run around the Constitutional

[26:54] requirement that they come and work with the town's localities.

[26:57] This would be what I would say, the exception to the Dillon rule in Virginia, this provision.

[27:02] And they're not used to it when I say they, I mean, members of the General Assembly.

[27:06] They're like, well, we can authorize that.

[27:08] No, actually, and whenever I show them the section of the Constitution that usually prompts

[27:15] a legal question to somebody in the Attorney General's Office and the bill either

[27:19] goes where it starts getting watered down, but we've had some erosion of that local

[27:24] authority.

[27:25] So this would basically say, as you listen, we know how to do this.

[27:29] If you want to set a standard rate for linear foot in that manner, then let's have that

[27:33] discussion, and it makes some sense for that, but it still needs to come, and they have

[27:38] to have the agreement that comes to us.

[27:40] For some of the telecommunications franchises that's been worked out, and it's not as

[27:44] big of the deal, but every year you see some bills.

[27:47] So this is kind of a preemptive provision that we like to make sure that our,

[27:53] remember's in the General Assembly, representatives are aware that they might be asked to sponsor or not oppose something

[28:01] that would erode this local authority.

[28:04] 16 is relates to the North of Virginia Transportation Authority.

[28:07] The town has a non-voting seat along with the other towns on the NBTA.

[28:17] We don't have a vote as a town collectively or individually, and they would say that's because we're part of the county.

[28:26] So far, I would say the county has been very good in helping the town get money, funds for transportation, and it's not been an impediment.

[28:37] But this does come up occasionally that why doesn't at least the towns collectively have a vote?

[28:43] Since towns, the larger towns maintain the roads, and the counties and the cities in the VTA, or recent additions to doing some of their projects for road construction and other transportation projects.

[28:59] So that's been on our legislative agenda for a while.

[29:02] However, the county wall point out that, well, Fairfax County will point out that they work well with the town, and they do, and help us get money at the NVTA.

[29:12] level.

[29:14] 17 is this is still floating around. There was a good case that worked its way through

[29:21] the courts about the use of skill games. They basically look like, you know, what you

[29:27] would see in a casino where you're gambling. I mean, you have credit in the machine.

[29:34] You play some game that's based on odds and you can win more than you put in.

[29:41] Those machines are not inspected, they're not really regulated.

[29:44] They popped up like crazy, because there was kind of a loophole in the statute.

[29:50] And it was litigated, Attorney General said, that he didn't think it was legal.

[29:57] And then there was some legislation, not legislation.

[30:00] But there was some judicial interpretation, and so now, I think it, unless the general assembly passes a statute that says their legal, the most of the games that were popping up, and you would see on the road sides, you know, quickie marks. And you've seen some in the town, and we have to go in occasionally, and please go in and give them a nice seasons assist letter. And there's actually a state police task force now.

[30:28] They pop up almost overnight, but I think the town does have an interest in making sure

[30:36] that these what are called gray machines aren't legalized or something that under the decision

[30:44] that came out two years ago isn't there's not some legislation to try to get around that.

[30:49] It's a heavy lobby because it's many obviously applies across the country.

[30:53] Some states allow it, but Virginia General Assembly made a policy that they didn't want to allow it.

[30:59] But then, there was, like I said, there was this perceived loophole for a while, taxing of vaping products.

[31:10] So Virginia taxes tobacco sales currently, and when you buy a pack of cigarettes, there's a tax.

[31:19] And Virginia has one of the lowest tax rates in the country because it was traditionally

[31:23] not only at tobacco growing state, but it's still, it's not a small amount,

[31:27] but it's diminishing sales tax on cigarettes and cigars.

[31:33] So the vaping products that they've become more popular, you know, adding those

[31:40] and to a tax on those would make up for some of that lost tax revenue that the

[31:46] localities used to get.

[31:47] And as you're all aware, there's only a limited number of tax revenue sources

[31:51] localities have at their disposal, so if you lose taxes from tobacco sales, you're going

[31:58] to have to either cut services, cut people, or figure out a way to raise taxes on those

[32:03] existing sources, which is unfortunately for us real estate property taxes, the main source

[32:13] of revenue for this town and a lot of small jurisdictions, so you lose those revenue sources,

[32:19] as you've got to make it up somewhere else. So this was an idea that if you included

[32:24] those vaping products like you do to back of sales, it would make up for some of that lost revenue.

[32:33] Number 19 is, as came up, I think this was, Councilman Potter came up with this.

[32:42] Yes, about, you know, the recycling of packaging materials. There's been some, you know,

[32:47] You know, the folks that are pushing for this have gotten some, you may have noticed

[32:52] that you're not seeing Styrofoam packaging in your fast food.

[32:56] And that became effective July 1st.

[32:58] Some fast food restaurants were already had shifted away, but July 1st, you're not

[33:05] supposed to have Styrofoam anymore in this particular paper, a recyclable paper,

[33:09] or something like that for your packaging.

[33:12] So, it's not directly related to this because this was really for cardboard and encouraging

[33:20] people that are shipping, I think about the Amazon packages that you get and then

[33:24] all everybody ships now and does direct and you know you can get things from, you know

[33:29] your hardware stores, you know, home depot and loads will ship things to you and it comes

[33:33] in a box so the problem is is our recycling, you know, has gone up in the town in the amount

[33:40] a cardboard, but a lot of people still throw it away, so this was intended to be a methodology of

[33:47] encouraging people to either use one, to use recycling packaging materials, and then

[33:53] assist municipalities in the efforts to recycle that packaging.

[33:59] And 20,

[34:04] this is something that urban, suburban areas that were built out, what I would say, post-World

[34:09] would work to massive, you know, new subdivisions going in.

[34:13] Initially, the utilities were put up so quickly they were always above ground.

[34:17] Well, that's not ideal, and most subdivisions, including the town since the 60s have said,

[34:23] new subdivisions and new development, if you're pulling new lines, they have to be

[34:26] underground as part of your local franchise or by statute or ordinance.

[34:32] Well, what's that do with all the other above ground utilities?

[34:36] Well, as I mentioned earlier, the public service utilities get to use the right away in Virginia,

[34:41] and that's for common good, right?

[34:43] You need electrical power, you need telephone, service, you need gas service, or whatnot.

[34:49] And so that's factored into their use of the right away.

[34:52] Well, they don't want to use any of their right away fees or their revenue and their guaranteed profit.

[35:00] That's under their franchise agreements or under their state licenses through the State Corporation Commission. They don't want to use any of their revenues to, what I would say, underground facilities that are obsolete. And so they'll continue to make upgrades to their above ground sites, increased capacity to their above ground transmission equipment where if it was brand new equipment, it always had to be underground.

[35:29] And so it puts the older, urban suburban localities that are disadvantaged to the newer localities.

[35:37] It also, I would submit increases, outages and jurisdictions.

[35:43] And if you think about it, and we're very protective of our trees, especially trees near electrical lines.

[35:47] I'm not just talking about the high tension lines, which is one of the proposed items here on the right away for the WNOD.

[35:53] Those are, those are, those are transmission lines.

[35:56] The distribution lines which are running around in a lot of our neighborhoods,

[35:59] you know, you plan to mature tree in your yard, if it gets within so many feet

[36:03] of those lines, Dominion or Verizon can come and they can cut it.

[36:09] You know, you have the easements, if you've got a pole in your front yard,

[36:13] there's an easement for it, and it's within so many feet.

[36:16] So you say, well, the pole's only, you know, foot and a half wide and diameter

[36:20] are at most. Well, their easement for cutting goes out on either side usually 10 to 15 feet.

[36:26] Now, you know, and cutting trees is expensive, but they're not going to prune your trees.

[36:32] They're going to cut the bare minimum that they need to cut to keep their lines clear,

[36:36] which is a worthy goal. You don't want your power going out, right?

[36:38] You don't want your telephone lines, your cable lines, you know, going out.

[36:41] And so, but if they were undergrounded, you wouldn't have to worry about it.

[36:46] But unfortunately, the telecommunications and the power company calls that beautification.

[36:55] Notwithstanding no modern subdivision development ordinance allows utility lines to go above ground for a variety of reasons.

[37:02] So it's more of a question who has to pay for it and where does the money come from.

[37:06] So this is an attempt of the town to ask the General Assembly to say, listen,

[37:11] And they've got to start undergrounding these obsolete, I would argue, facilities and

[37:18] start taking so many linear feeds, so many miles per year and undergrounding.

[37:23] There was some pressure a while ago for them to start this and there was some pilot programs.

[37:29] But respectfully, I think the pilot programs were the low hanging fruit, not the real problem areas.

[37:35] And they did do something in the town of the NN, some other jurisdictions.

[37:38] But it's a drop in the bucket.

[37:40] It's something that's going to take 20, 30 years to do.

[37:44] But the sooner you start, the better, you know, the better the communities will look.

[37:48] You'll have better liability in your power and telecommunications provisions.

[37:55] And so this is something that I think the town, long term, has a goal of getting something

[38:00] to some authority from the General Assembly.

[38:02] And then we had some new items sent in.

[38:06] I'll let those, Mr. Councilman Randerson and Councilman Remake speak to those.

[38:10] But the Councilman Randerson had some language in here or suggestions for,

[38:18] there's the possibility of a new gaming commission being created in the Commonwealth,

[38:25] which would supplement what RE is.

[38:26] Right now, there are four active full casinos.

[38:30] If you know what roses is, those are like gaming machines which are based on historic

[38:36] horse racing, H-H-R. You couldn't make it up and criticize our commonwealth, how do you mess

[38:42] up gambling? It's either is or it isn't. Well, those machines, H-H-R, which you see in places

[38:47] like roses, are,

[38:51] they're games of skill, you put in money and you can win more than you put

[38:55] out based on odds, sounds like the old one-arm bandits, right, and you have odds, you know,

[39:01] you get three cherries you win, right? Well, the odds in the H.H.R. are based on historic

[39:07] horse racing results. Generated at random, I mean, it's a fiction that was created because

[39:14] Virginia legalized horse racing. You can bet on horse racing. So technically, in the minds

[39:20] of somebody, those games you're betting on horse race, even those obviously you're not

[39:26] even looking at a horse race when you do it. So that's a legal fiction was created and

[39:30] they've popped up and they're popular in some jurisdictions they like. Well, you know,

[39:35] do you want those in every 7-11, do you want those in every, you know, any place that,

[39:40] you know, can have space of them in their lobby? So Virginia has generally kind of said no,

[39:46] And then full gambling, which you would think of as a true casino,

[39:52] there's been legislation for a while now to allow those, you know, by referendum.

[39:58] them. What's the last?

[40:00] The backing in all of this is the rulemaking and, you know, if it's going to be expanded, you know, who's going to be in charge of making sure that they're all inspected, and the more you allow, the bigger bureaucracy you're going to need to make sure it's done properly and not legally. And so, you know, there's the expectation that there's going to be some amendments or creation of a gaming commission that'll be expanded in the commonwealth. And to that extent, you know, I think Vienna has an effort.

[40:29] in Fairfax County has an interest in making sure that it's still a local decision.

[40:36] And then if there is, gaming allowed that it's done properly and regulated properly.

[40:43] And then the second item council member Anderson put forth is campaign finance reform.

[40:51] This would limit campaign contributions, improve transparency, mandatory disclosure of donors, including dark money,

[40:59] an act more effective oversight and support public finance elections.

[41:04] So, as you all know, if you have a campaign account, you have to disclose it and do it.

[41:08] But there's a lot of ways and a lot of loopholes, especially when you have political action committees.

[41:15] And it is, and you have something, I think Council, not Council Member, but Senator Chapyrsson,

[41:20] when he was a senator put in a bill a couple times, it would say, if you're a publicly regulated utility,

[41:27] Either a co-op or a dominion power, you should not be allowed to make political donations.

[41:34] It sounds like common sense, right?

[41:37] Well, they lobby against it, and they donate a lot of money to members of the General Assembly.

[41:42] And it did not pass, but that's the kind of campaign finance reform that some folks think would be a good idea in Virginia and let Councilmember Anderson speak to that.

[41:53] Let me just finish the last one with Councilmember Remake, because this is possible state

[42:01] legislation relating to public utility maintenance of its easements.

[42:06] So as I mentioned earlier, related to another issue, you know, you have these power line

[42:12] easements and gas line easements, either from franchise or from a state charter.

[42:19] And there were the goals, obviously, we need electricity, we need, you know,

[42:22] telecommunication service to your house, your cable service, and your gas and water.

[42:27] Town has easements as well for water and sewer.

[42:33] They're necessary, but that being said, you can balance those where you have what people also want as tree in vegetation.

[42:43] So they have, you know, not only natural vegetation, but

[42:46] And the ability to have those and plan for those, and if the public utility is able to trump those without any mandate or without any regulations or provisions for giving notice,

[43:02] then, you know, is that really in the public's interest and are these, their public utilities seems to be, there should be a public

[43:10] component that would limit clear-cutting and lack of planning.

[43:16] So I think that's what the goal of this would be, and when Dominion came on their transmission's lines, and did the clear-cutting on the WNOD trail, as you know, it hit an

[43:28] nerve and a lot of folks, it's not just a transmission line easement.

[43:34] That's one of the most popular region parks in northern Virginia and

[43:39] it's heavily used and people appreciate not only the trail but the natural state around it.

[43:45] So, this kind of legislation would put some restrictions on public utility maintenance.

[43:51] I think what the utility companies will say is, well, these are, you know, they're a private

[43:58] part, they're a private company, and these easements are property rights.

[44:03] And so they're recorded with the land, and I think they might, what they might say is

[44:09] that to the extent that it increases power outages, things hitting your poles and

[44:16] causes damage, because they're not allowed to do this, that they're going to ask for

[44:19] compensation from the state, if you're not going to let them cut around their poles

[44:26] and they're going to say, all right, well then we can document that there's been

[44:28] damage from trees that we weren't allowed to cut and, you know, we're going to ask for

[44:33] compensation or rate adjustments. So that's the other side of that coin, but I think

[44:37] there probably is a, you know, there is probably some legislation that might,

[44:47] that the

[44:50] If they don't, then you're going to start seeing it in required provisions for their franchises and their public service.

[45:00] That's state corporation licenses that they have to get. And they're up for renewal periodically. So I think, in their mind, they don't want to do it, but I think in the back of their mind, they're probably thinking we're going to run into some road box in the future if we don't start working on it. So you might get some, when they technically say they have the upper hand legally now, they know in the future they're going to need to renew some of their licenses and provisions. And so if they're more reasonable now,

[45:29] than some of those renewals might go easier.

[45:32] So I think that's the leverage you have on that.

[45:34] So the plus and the minuses of that,

[45:36] but it certainly hits a nerve in order to Virginia.

[45:40] Whether that would be statewide or not,

[45:42] might be, you know, I don't, you know,

[45:44] but if you all recall, and I'm gonna stop

[45:46] that editorializing, but if you remember Clark County

[45:49] a few years ago, they were extending transmission lines.

[45:52] I forgot, it was, you know,

[45:54] Dominion Power is not just Virginia.

[45:56] They go all over, they go, they've merged with Duke Power, which is down in the South and North Carolina, and they have connections up north too.

[46:06] So they commit, these transmission lines are multi-state.

[46:12] And Cork County, there was a new transmission line and the big high tension line.

[46:17] So it's sort of what's coming through Vienna on the WNOD trail.

[46:20] And they were going to do what they always did.

[46:22] They're just going to put the, they pay the farmers and the farmers sell them.

[46:25] land they actually paid pretty good money to the farmers but those giant towers are

[46:30] up forever and the folks out there said we don't want that and the state folks are saying

[46:37] well they have a right to pull the lines there they just they have to pay for the property

[46:41] but they have condemnation authority too and they push so hard that they made them underground

[46:47] the transmission lines they can't believe they want that battle and it's a beautiful you

[46:52] You know, that's a beautiful part of the state if you haven't driven through it.

[46:55] It's in between Prince William and then the Shannonville Mountains, basically, it's the

[46:59] rolling hills.

[47:02] And, you know, I'll say it, there's some well-heeled farms out there, and so they had a little bit

[47:07] of political clout, but you know, they were able to keep those towers from going in and

[47:12] using underground.

[47:13] But now that they're underground, you know, you don't see them, and there's less maintenance.

[47:17] And so I think there's been some groundwork done for maybe getting the power companies to the table.

[47:26] So then the question goes, as it always goes, you all go through these, maybe take some off tweaks and then organize them.

[47:34] You know, the meeting with Senator Salim and delegates cybald is September 30th.

[47:43] I know we tweet those days.

[47:45] It's October 20th, ma'am.

[47:47] October 20th, yes.

[47:49] October.

[47:50] Yeah, October, we moved it, right?

[47:52] Yep.

[47:53] And the deadline for them to submit their bills.

[47:57] So, you know, we come up with the legislative agenda.

[48:00] The town council comes up with its agenda.

[48:03] But, you know, and as you rough draft at that point,

[48:05] we meet with the delegate and the good senator

[48:08] and say, what do you all think?

[48:09] And then they give their input as they always do every year.

[48:14] and the deadline for them getting their bills in for drafting is December 1st this year.

[48:22] Yeah, it's earlier, it's usually, it's always at the beginning of December, but it's about a week earlier this year.

[48:27] So we'd have, the council's going to have to pass its ranked agenda before that to give our delegate and

[48:35] senator time to introduce bills, and they have a limited number of bills obviously.

[48:40] So the sooner the better we get a good working draft, and then we meet with them, and then have another meeting after that to do the final rankings, please get in the process in place to do the final rankings.

[48:52] Thank you. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Towntourney, town manager.

[48:57] Yeah, it's not a mayor, remember, so the town council, as of right now, November 10th is what we have on the schedule for public hearing and approval of the legislative agenda, and that's what the town attorney was referring to.

[49:10] Yeah, that's the last thing you do.

[49:13] So you'll advertise, take the public input, and you can reorganize.

[49:18] You'll have a little bit of time to reorganize the order if you want.

[49:21] But we should have a pretty good order by then.

[49:24] I would recommend that you do that.

[49:26] Don't wait till the 10th to say what order we're going to put in there.

[49:29] We will.

[49:29] We'll be better.

[49:30] We'll be better this year.

[49:32] Promise, town attorney.

[49:34] So go ahead, town manager.

[49:36] Yes, Madam Mayor.

[49:37] members of the town council, we do have a number of allies around the region.

[49:44] We have the Northern Virginia Regional Commission, where I go to those CIO meetings and

[49:49] the mayor goes to the Mayor's and chairs meetings.

[49:52] And then we also have the TANV group, we tomorrow with them.

[49:57] And so once this legislative agenda is

[50:00] As finalized, we can share with some of those groups. For example, we know that the bag tags issue something that the town association among the Virginia is very interested in and very, very motivated by. And so this is an example of how we can leverage some of those relationships, given whatever items we want to advance. Right. Thank you. Okay. So let's go around. Council members, we're getting near eight.

[50:28] But this is, of course, very important.

[50:31] So, Chuck, do you want to start?

[50:33] Just you have any comments?

[50:35] You want Jessica to start?

[50:36] That's fine.

[50:37] All right, Jessica, why don't you start?

[50:39] And just any comments on any of the items

[50:42] that Steve talked about?

[50:43] You don't have to mention everyone.

[50:44] But if there's anything you want to mention

[50:48] or any questions you have, let's discuss that now.

[50:53] All righty.

[50:54] Thank you.

[50:55] So I would say I continue to support the items that we have for our top priorities from

[51:06] last year.

[51:08] I do think, I know I was advocating for and working on the one that is item six in

[51:16] particular relating to vaping products, so I'm interested in learning more about the status

[51:22] of the implementation of that, the legislation that the town attorney mentioned.

[51:28] Of course, I know I wouldn't pass and just express support for the top priorities, but

[51:33] I continue to think opposing the casino as the top priority makes sense to me.

[51:40] I know we've got to continue to be active on that and we've been unanimous in our opposition

[51:45] of a casino in Tyson's corner.

[51:48] I think other things I would just mention, I do think the bag tax item, I'm interested

[51:59] in moving that up in our priority list.

[52:02] That seems like one especially in light of other localities being interested.

[52:06] It seems I've been asked about that whether the town gets receives that and it's surprising

[52:14] that we don't. So I would support that being a higher priority. I think I appreciate the

[52:21] items that Chuck that you put forward. I think my only thing maybe we can just think more about it.

[52:31] Without getting too deeply into what is actually said here about a gaming commission,

[52:36] it could be misread as wanting more gaming. I know that is not what is intended here,

[52:42] or wanting more regulation, I just want to be sure that our message is clear on our

[52:47] position, which I know it has been, I know how involved you are in the no casino organizing.

[52:56] I just wouldn't want something that Ben says we want a gaming commission to be interpreted

[53:02] as being four more gaming. I don't think that is what you intend by putting this forward just

[53:09] just to be clear, I just wouldn't want it to be interpreted that way.

[53:14] And then just briefly, I think the town attorney did a nice job explaining the issue that

[53:21] I had put forward on possible legislation related to public utilities and management of

[53:27] their easements.

[53:28] I know, again, this is an issue where the council has been supportive in passing our resolution

[53:35] in favor of working more with Dominion for them to replant.

[53:40] And there was just a rally a couple weekends ago with members of the community who were there too.

[53:47] This is something that we can do to further advance the conversation.

[53:51] I think it's interesting to hear what possibilities may exist.

[53:57] It certainly doesn't seem like a circumstance that should be repeated.

[54:01] or we need to do something to try and get the replanting done on our trail and to try and mitigate

[54:09] the risk of something like that happening in the future. So it may be that there are other areas

[54:14] that are interested in joining in on this with us other areas locally where they've also been

[54:21] affected. So we can work more on what the language would be here and if it would be a requirement to

[54:26] coordinate as the town attorney has drafted it or if it would be something that

[54:31] leans in a little bit more but I think we could work on that together. Thank you, okay thank you

[54:37] Jessica. Ray.

[54:42] Councilmember, I'm very brief. I'm 2024.

[54:50] We had they not

[54:51] I'm thinking we had all

[54:57] 30 munities number five.

[55:00] We had qualified immunity as number five. Qualified immunity is really important. We have our own

[55:10] police force and are great. Safety to me is our number one priority. I think it should be higher,

[55:18] but I'll just express that. But what I want to do is we have been blindsided and fooled by this vaping matter.

[55:26] I'm going to hand it here just a little bit.

[55:32] I just want to list very quickly.

[55:37] Vaping is associated with lung injury, chronic lung disease.

[55:41] There are heavy metals, such as nickel, lead, and anomone,

[55:45] which are invading products, increased risk

[55:50] of heart attack and stroke, higher rate of blood pressure,

[55:54] higher risk of heart failure, nicotine addiction,

[55:57] nicotine is highly addictive,

[55:58] that many vape products contain high concentrations, impaired brain development, brain continues to

[56:05] develop until age 25 and this is really after the young people, lower cognitive function, researchers

[56:12] found that college students who vape have lower scores and cognitive function test, mental health

[56:17] issues, cancer risk, I can go on and on, you get the point.

[56:24] I do not think we should do anything

[56:27] to encourage vaping in our town, it's a health hazard, it is not a recreation cigarette.

[56:37] Okay, thank you, Ray. Roy?

[56:42] Actually, I would like to defer.

[56:45] First of all, I apologize for my raspy voice, I'm recovering from a call, I guess.

[56:51] But I would like to hear Councilmember Anderson's talk about his two items.

[56:59] Okay, all right, Chuck.

[57:05] You may be sorry, you deferred, but here goes.

[57:09] First, the gaming commission.

[57:11] This isn't my idea, it's not being pulled out of the blue.

[57:15] It's part of a broader strategy of the, basically, not just the no casino, but let's start regulating

[57:22] gambling in the Commonwealth.

[57:26] delegate Creezek, who represents Alexandria, is really behind this.

[57:31] And I've spoken to him several times about this.

[57:34] And the idea is there's such an explosive amount of gambling in the common wealth.

[57:40] And it's not just recinos and casinos, it's sports batting, it's online batting.

[57:46] It's the gray machines that everybody needs to take a pause and

[57:51] establish a single bureaucratic entity in Richmond that takes a holistic approach and has institutional knowledge.

[58:00] This is really an initiative by the sort of, let's sort of get gaming in its larger, you know,

[58:12] in its larger sense under control.

[58:14] It does include a clause that would basically place moratoriums on any additional casinos and potentially

[58:23] casinos or something like that until the gaming commission is established until some studies

[58:28] is done to see what the health and economic impacts of gaming.

[58:31] So that's sort of the background of this.

[58:38] The No Fairfax Casino Coalition, which essentially represents 30 or 40 different homeowners associations, the town of Vienna, has lined up behind this measure.

[58:54] It's seen as essentially a way of putting the brakes on the establishment of Casino.

[59:04] It's not new legislation that was introduced last year by Delegate Creesick, and it's gotten a fair amount of support.

[59:17] So my idea would be to join some of the other associations, and by the way, the county has been asked to put it on its legislative agenda too.

[59:30] And I'm not sure exactly if they'll agree to that or not, but you do need to phrase

[59:41] it such that it doesn't appear to be condoning gaming or growing gaming, and in fact precisely

[59:51] the opposite is true, that's not its purpose or intent.

[59:54] I would suggest working on language that's

[1:00:00] It sort of marries this with the no casino. So it's clear that they're both sort of part of the same, you know, the same, or if people don't like it, taking this language and making it clear as to what its purposes and intent. Question?

[1:00:25] I think it's a great idea is it seems like it's implied that if they have a gaming commission that they have legitimacy given to casinos and we don't want to give them legitimacy.

[1:00:36] No, it doesn't give the gaming commission authority to establish casinos whatsoever.

[1:00:41] That's not one of its intentions.

[1:00:44] up until now only the state has had the authority to identify potential localities that would be eligible for casinos and to date they've only done five.

[1:01:00] Again, the whole purpose of this is to sort of put some breaks on gaming and not to essentially expand it.

[1:01:10] Now, could be misused, I agree, but that's the purpose and I will work on some more specific language.

[1:01:22] The campaign finance reform idea is actually one that is I learned about by my work on the no casino efforts.

[1:01:37] Part of the problems we face down in Richmond is that the pro-casino people are spending enormous amounts of money, which they can do under Virginia law, because Virginia has one of the least regulated campaign finance regimes in the nation were like number 47 out of 50.

[1:01:59] And most people don't realize that state delegates and senators can accept unlimited contributions.

[1:02:08] There's no limit.

[1:02:09] If somebody wants to buy a vote by giving a senator a million dollars, that's totally legal in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

[1:02:18] And so consequently, who gains power in Richmond?

[1:02:24] Even the people who throw a lot of money around and the two most recently who have been

[1:02:30] at the top of the list are Comstock and the Procassino people and Dominion Power.

[1:02:38] And so this is also in some respects related to the tree cutting and trying to convince

[1:02:47] to be a little bit more cognizant of the fact that their easement goes right through a public park and right through the heart of Vienna.

[1:03:00] I know this is new and there's a lot of elements to it. I'm going to, and there's more than one way of dealing with this.

[1:03:10] It could be as part of the legislative agenda and I created some draft language that's relatively vague for the legislative agenda.

[1:03:18] It's a new idea.

[1:03:19] I don't know if I propose putting it up there towards the top, but you might want to consider basically making a claim.

[1:03:27] There's also a group called Big Money Out of Virginia, and they're trying to convince localities to pass resolutions basically asking for campaign finance reform.

[1:03:42] Two counties have done so, or two municipalities, the town of Blacksburg and the county of Leesburg.

[1:03:49] I'm going to pass around the language that the town of Blacksburg has passed.

[1:03:56] But the whole purpose here again is sort of getting big money out of Virginia or to it's not to essentially totally make campaign finance public, but it is an attempt to sort of put some limits and some additional transparency on campaign finance in Virginia.

[1:04:23] Again, I think this is interesting leverage for some of the other items that we want to do,

[1:04:27] so I think it's worthy of consideration.

[1:04:29] I know it's a new issue, but it's important, and now I'll go through my laundry list of other items, if I can.

[1:04:42] I would move the ALU's down because they did pass ALU legislation, and

[1:04:48] And we're covered under our grandfathered, our own enacted legislation.

[1:04:55] So I don't think that's going to be a big item.

[1:04:58] I agree about moving-

[1:05:02] I would think about basically putting the taxation and the regulation together and basically creating one thing. Town requires basically more regulation and control over vaping. That includes additional authority to restrict. All now we can do is restrict to a thousand linear fee from a school, but not a park. And we don't have the capability of

[1:05:29] limiting the numbers. So I think we would like additional authority to restrict. And I also would like to tax. I did a quick, you know, AI. There's about a half million dollars sales estimated a vaping products in Vienna a year at a 20% tax. That would be $100,000.

[1:05:48] It would also raise the price. And as it comes would say increases in price reduces demand. And so I think that's worthwhile.

[1:05:58] On the revenue sharing thing, could we add in sharing between counties and towns instead

[1:06:10] of just state and localities, because we pay all these taxes into Fairfax County?

[1:06:16] I just think about putting it in there, not making a big deal about it, but Montgomery County

[1:06:23] does revenue shareings with towns and why not?

[1:06:27] It should be fair.

[1:06:27] We pay for a lot of services here directly that release the county from paying for those.

[1:06:34] So just an idea.

[1:06:43] On undergrounding, I'm wondering if we can try to make this more palatable by making it

[1:06:48] bit more specific, which is some language that says basically utilities should be required

[1:06:59] to underground locations that are at the highest risk of outages in terms of number

[1:07:06] of people. That would essentially focus on urban areas, older urban areas, where the lines

[1:07:13] are oldest and there's a lot of trees. And I'm just wondering if that would make it a little

[1:07:18] more palatable because it wouldn't be so open-ended.

[1:07:38] They've stepped up their pruning in the urban and suburban areas.

[1:07:42] Sure.

[1:07:43] I'm not talking about the WNOD type pruning.

[1:07:46] But that could be tied into, okay, don't prune so much, but underground instead.

[1:07:54] On the easements, I'm wondering if it might be more palatable if we focus on easements in public

[1:08:01] public parks. That is essentially requiring localities to have authority to request replacement

[1:08:15] or preservation in public park areas. Again, it limited a little bit, makes it more

[1:08:23] specific and also I'm thinking of trying to draft it in a way that gives us a little bit

[1:08:28] but more leverage over dominion on the issue at hand.

[1:08:32] So just an idea I had.

[1:08:35] And then finally, and I apologize for going so long, but I do this more and

[1:08:40] more than my fourth or fifth year as I've become much more interested in the largest lay of agenda.

[1:08:45] Because I realize that we can only do so much here.

[1:08:48] If we really want to make a difference, we have to basically push the town or the state.

[1:08:54] And I had an interesting conversation last week with Delegate Seabold and Senator Selene.

[1:09:03] And they said, well, you know, you guys in Vienna, you push stuff, you're never going

[1:09:07] to get like moving the election day.

[1:09:09] And the newspaper thing because the newspaper lobby is just too strong and you're never going

[1:09:13] to get that.

[1:09:14] And they said, but you never ask for money.

[1:09:17] They said, you should ask for money.

[1:09:20] And I said, okay, I'll bring that to council.

[1:09:22] So, and one of my ideas, and I didn't put it in here because I thought we would have

[1:09:29] an open discussion about it, is why don't we ask for money for the feasibility for the

[1:09:37] property that we're buying in terms of maybe turning it into an economic development center

[1:09:42] or something like that?

[1:09:46] They said it's easier to get money that it is to make some of these other legislative changes.

[1:09:51] So I said, okay, we'll talk about it.

[1:09:55] So I know it's another new idea that hasn't been raised before, but...

[1:10:00] I think if other council members could think about it and think about items that could attract, be attractive to the legislators. I like the idea of the, you know, the posh building because if you put it into an economic development context, I think that has more bipartisan support, et cetera, et cetera. So believe it or not, that's it for me. Okay. Thank you, Chuck.

[1:10:31] But Town Manager?

[1:10:32] Yes, Madam Mayor, members of the Town Council.

[1:10:34] And just following up with Council Member Anderson, just mentioned, I would imagine that a one-time request like that would also be more attractive to General Assembly, instead of like recurring request, but a one-time infusion of funds for an economic development purpose probably would be somewhat attractive.

[1:10:53] I don't know if it's a legislative agenda item, because it sounds like to me they consider under their budget.

[1:11:02] You know, their budgeting process, but anyway, what delegate Seabold and Senator Selene said, all these others jurisdictions asked for money, and they get it, you should be asking for money, so okay.

[1:11:18] Okay.

[1:11:18] All right.

[1:11:20] Thank you.

[1:11:21] All right.

[1:11:23] Going back to Roy.

[1:11:25] All right.

[1:11:26] Thank you.

[1:11:26] Madam Mayor and members of the talent council.

[1:11:29] I want to salute council member Anderson.

[1:11:33] I think that we can rely on him and possibly also council member spring stream in their

[1:11:40] in their retirement years to be able to focus the time that we need on getting us legislation in particular.

[1:11:55] So I guess my first question for all of this is, does it really make a difference whether a particular request is ranked higher or lower?

[1:12:08] Is that a question for our town turning?

[1:12:10] I just do that for a general.

[1:12:13] I mean, I do think so.

[1:12:15] I think what the town manager has mentioned is important.

[1:12:18] That there are other jurisdictions that we can work with.

[1:12:22] And if they have the same interests as we do,

[1:12:26] I think that's a little more powerful.

[1:12:28] Right.

[1:12:28] So if we do rank some of these higher,

[1:12:31] that we can take to them.

[1:12:32] And I think that makes a big difference.

[1:12:34] And I think when our sender and delegate come in too, they can only, you know, work on so many things as well.

[1:12:43] And so I think that it does make a difference.

[1:12:46] I still think, and I know we've had this conversation.

[1:12:49] I think it's important to have a full list because maybe, you know, a jurisdiction has number one.

[1:12:56] It may be number eight, but we still agree with them that it should happen.

[1:13:00] And so I still think it's important to do the full list, but I think ranking does matter.

[1:13:06] That's my answer, Ray.

[1:13:10] Did you have one answer that too?

[1:13:12] Yes, chap Peterson said anything passed four, they don't really pay attention to.

[1:13:20] In other words, they're being really on for busy.

[1:13:23] So it has to be up in the four or five.

[1:13:26] It's nice to put, I've requested that we reduce the number.

[1:13:29] but it's nice to put them all in, and as the mayor said,

[1:13:34] it might match up with another jurisdiction here need.

[1:13:38] But if they're in the four or five range,

[1:13:41] they will pay attention to it.

[1:13:44] Hopefully we have a state senator

[1:13:46] with a longer attention span at this point.

[1:13:50] All right, and keeping in mind, the fact

[1:13:51] that we're at 8.7, 8.18 p.m.

[1:13:53] and this agenda item was supposed to end at 8.

[1:13:57] I'll be brief in my comments.

[1:13:59] It's number two, I agree with Council Member Anderson.

[1:14:03] I think that can come off because I don't see us being able to get any more traction on accessory dwelling units anytime soon.

[1:14:16] And it seems like we've got a satisfactory arrangement for the town.

[1:14:30] Roy, just briefly.

[1:14:33] There's actually two parts to that.

[1:14:34] There's one part I would still keep in some way, which is opposing the use of any limitation of the land authority.

[1:14:40] Yes, we added the ALU's.

[1:14:43] Right, thank you.

[1:14:44] Yeah, I would drop the ALU.

[1:14:46] I just looked at the ALU legislation.

[1:14:49] It does allow us to do what we want to do.

[1:14:51] The new legislation that was passed by the state.

[1:14:55] So I think we could drop that part.

[1:14:56] Well, let me just say I'm going to continue.

[1:15:00] Wait, tell Roy what's on, but now that we're talking about it, I did hear that there is some talk, enrichment that there are some, some, some elected officials that want to tell jurisdictions exactly what to do with their area. So I heard this from a very good source and kind of giving me a little warning there. So we may want to keep that in. I don't, I don't know why we would, you know, like if, if that's, if that is a chance that they, that is actually something that's true.

[1:15:29] I don't think it's going to hurt to keep that in there.

[1:15:32] I mean, I understand that we have an ordinance, it's great, but we want to have our own decisions on ALUs.

[1:15:40] We don't, you know, and different jurisdictions, again, may want different things that we do, but I don't think it would hurt to keep it in.

[1:15:50] For No. 7, the cooperative procurement, I guess my question would be, what, how much

[1:15:58] is this costing us as it, as the statute currently, is written?

[1:16:04] It's only $1

[1:16:26] ,000 worth of money is outwinded at.

[1:16:32] Well,

[1:16:35] I mean, it's certainly a worthy cause.

[1:16:38] You've indicated it has gotten out of the committee in the past.

[1:16:42] I think that, especially tonight of what Council Member Brill has stated that we ought to take some of our hotter issues and make them higher up than that.

[1:16:56] The same thing I think goes for the Dillon rule, I would, that's number eight, I would be happy to move that down the list because it's likelihood of successes.

[1:17:11] is minimal. Number nine, I guess I would like to have more detail on exactly what revenue

[1:17:18] sharing mechanisms we would support. And I guess my question on that is, is there suggested

[1:17:26] legislation now that we can hand to delegate Seabold and Senator D'Sulling?

[1:17:35] That's a great question, and when I read that and I was going through it, it's such a

[1:17:40] short thing, but I'm trying to remember when it first got on our legislative committee

[1:17:45] and I mean agenda, I think it got, I think it was related to something the town wanted

[1:17:51] to and then I think that's been addressed, but in the future I don't know because we do

[1:18:00] You've revenue sharing and other circumstances, let me find out the original reason why it got on our legislative agenda.

[1:18:11] I think that problem was solved, but some past councils wanted to leave it in, because that's been on there, at least ten years, Councilmember.

[1:18:21] It's a good question about why, what are we specifically talking about, because it does seem vague, and honestly, it's been vague for a while now, so let me look to see the original intern.

[1:18:33] All right, the number 11 about full 599 funding, my question on this is how much, again, how much does it cost Vienna under the current?

[1:18:50] the current legislation, the current statute, and how much could we save if this request was granted?

[1:19:00] I think if we can, I mean, speaking of money, if we can make it clear to our representatives how much money we are losing under the current statute.

[1:19:16] And how much we could save if they would go to bat for us.

[1:19:20] I think that it would be much more persuasive to them.

[1:19:23] Well, they haven't cut it in a while, because it's always on our legislative agenda and a number of jurisdictions, you know, watched this carefully for when the budget comes out.

[1:19:33] So I think right now it's basically a prophylactic legislative agenda to make sure that they understand that we're watching it every year.

[1:19:42] And that we're not adjusting our budget slowly for a cut.

[1:19:45] We're counting on getting the bare minimum that they have been providing.

[1:19:51] All right, well, in the regard to number 14, the flat-to-fag tax, again, I would suggest that.

[1:20:00] If we can, to put it a figure of how much the town could stand to gain by using the sales tax pass-through rules. So that we can show our representatives how much money it could make for the town. I think it would make it more persuasive for them.

[1:20:34] I feel that number 19 is, well, first of all, 18 is extremely important.

[1:20:41] And I think that's the one about taxing vaping products because I read here that vaping

[1:20:49] products are now currently untaxed, which is, I think that that's really intolerable.

[1:20:57] I would support moving that way up on the list.

[1:21:02] And I would like to say number 19 as well, which is the extended producer responsibility

[1:21:08] program for 100 percent recycling, but I have to question whether that would probably,

[1:21:15] how much success that would have with our, with our representatives.

[1:21:23] The, but I would like, definitely, to make room for Councilmember Anderson's two suggestions

[1:21:30] near the top.

[1:21:31] I think these are, as he has explained them, I think these are very worthy and should be

[1:21:38] high up on our list. And the same thing goes for Council Member Remekis' suggestion.

[1:21:45] I think this is extremely important. And also, I think we need to, I think we will be well advised

[1:21:51] as a council to make it as clear as possible to town residents that we are doing everything

[1:21:56] we can to try to hold dominion to account for what they have done to our hundreds of trees

[1:22:05] that are along the right-of-way along the WNOD trail. And I would really encourage us to make

[1:22:15] Councilmember Remake's suggestion one of our highest priorities. And now my voice is officially

[1:22:21] are they giving out? So I'll yield back.

[1:22:25] Okay. Thank you, Roy. Go ahead, Tim Ender.

[1:22:28] Yes, Madam Mayor. Members of the town council, both our senator and this is going back to what councilmember Baldwin asked at the very beginning and in the mayor and councilmember.

[1:22:37] Brill begin to answer and I'll just continue by saying that they both have a pre-set number that they can pre-file.

[1:22:46] And so, and as much as whatever our top legislative agenda items are, whether it's two, three, four, five, and whatever we have a cut off,

[1:22:57] those are the ones that they're most likely to include in their set number that they're allowed to pre-file under.

[1:23:05] I don't know what that number is on the center side or a delegate side, but there is a number that they can pre-file for.

[1:23:13] And then the other items that we have beyond that, top three, four, five, or whatever, as the mayor indicated,

[1:23:20] we have friends around the state that may have similar concerns or issues, and we can team up with them.

[1:23:28] Okay, thank you, town manager.

[1:23:30] So I think we do need to kind of think about what do we want to focus on,

[1:23:36] And even though I know I have also said, let's keep everything on, because I think that

[1:23:40] part is important too.

[1:23:41] I've heard a lot of people talking about the vaping.

[1:23:43] So maybe the vaping could get moved up.

[1:23:47] I think qualified immunity is extremely important that needs to stay on.

[1:23:52] And I've heard maybe Dylan rules, things like that, maybe moving down a little bit, and

[1:23:59] the plastic bag, getting the taxes from the plastic bag, maybe that one could move up.

[1:24:03] I think that number one and two, in my opinion, I think we should keep those as one and two.

[1:24:10] We've got the casino number one, and we've got local land use.

[1:24:14] Whether we keep the part about the accessory drilling units, I don't think it hurts, and

[1:24:18] given what I've heard, I think we might want to just keep that in there.

[1:24:23] The local land use obviously is a big umbrella, right?

[1:24:26] So that covers a lot of things, and I know that that's really precious to the town of Vienna

[1:24:30] and what makes us very special.

[1:24:32] So, in my opinion, I would keep those two.

[1:24:35] Now the trees, I know we've had that as number three, just some thought, we might not want

[1:24:41] to have that as number three, just because we have tried year after year after year.

[1:24:45] I know we've gotten a little closer, but do we want to focus on some other things like

[1:24:49] the vaping, like Councillor Anderson, you know, the Gaming Commission, the trees?

[1:24:55] I don't know, I think, I think, Council Member,

[1:25:00] Just your suggestion is really good. It would be interesting to hear what our delegate and sender say. And, you know, if they think that that's something that has traction, and it could be, I agree with you too, Roy. I mean, all of us feel the same way. I know about the W-90 Trail and what's happened with our trees, but it will be interesting to hear what they have to say if that's something that can gain traction. So maybe some of those things, depending on, you know, they are going to have a lot of insight.

[1:25:28] as to, you know, how much traction they can get, whether they can even carry the bill,

[1:25:35] or maybe they're on a committee that they can vote and support it in some way.

[1:25:41] But I think, you know, maybe that's what we need to think about.

[1:25:45] Keep one into the same, move up some of the others that we've all been talking about and

[1:25:50] supporting, and obviously keep trees on there, keep, I mean, the sidewalk one is wonderful,

[1:25:57] because I think as we've run it out, we put all these wonderful sidewalks in with the

[1:26:02] Madrobans in trust, we're running out of funding, and I think that would be, we all know that

[1:26:07] sidewalks get people out of their cars, it is good for congestion, so it seems to make sense

[1:26:13] that it should be used for the 30%, I don't know, I don't know if that's something that is possible.

[1:26:22] So maybe just trying to be a little more realistic, like what are the ones that we really could

[1:26:26] to have some success with, I'm thinking, would be important.

[1:26:31] But I think all the suggestions have been really great tonight.

[1:26:37] So we need to get, so after saying that, I think we remind me town attorney,

[1:26:46] do we talk to our delegate and send her first?

[1:26:50] And then we rank, I think to me, that makes sense.

[1:26:53] Or do we rank and then give it to them, and then we rank.

[1:26:55] Like, what if, you know, I don't want to rank and then have them say, okay, there's no

[1:27:01] way.

[1:27:02] Your number three is never, ever going to happen, you know, I mean, it seems like we

[1:27:07] should have some flexibility after meeting with them.

[1:27:12] And maybe we do that.

[1:27:13] Maybe we rank and then we re-rank if needed.

[1:27:16] Thank you.

[1:27:17] We tweak the ADU's language because, you know, I think you're right, you don't, we

[1:27:25] We, for many years, we've said, listen, we want, we do our local land use authority.

[1:27:29] It's an important local rule, you know, and that includes ADUs.

[1:27:34] We did get some protection, I think last year, and that there was a grandfathering.

[1:27:39] So we don't know what people are going to legislate though, but I've heard those rumors too.

[1:27:43] Yeah.

[1:27:44] That they're just a mix of housing.

[1:27:46] And then if y'all have been following the legend, the legal battles going on in Arlington,

[1:27:51] where they're extended housing option program, the missing middle, and I have personally more details on them.

[1:27:59] I'm involved in one of those cases for a private client.

[1:28:02] It's an interesting concept.

[1:28:04] They're probably, even if it is found, they're probably tweaked.

[1:28:09] They really forced it through really fast, and you know, you don't want to, you know, that's

[1:28:14] the kind of legislation I would say was probably like a 51% had barely enough to get it

[1:28:20] passed, and it probably needed a little bit more time in the oven, so to speak, because

[1:28:25] they turned people that might have been in favor of it against it now.

[1:28:29] So I'm not going to say they're going to have to start over, but it's a lesson learned.

[1:28:34] A worthy goal, maybe not a worthy method.

[1:28:38] And so we've got so many different jurisdictions doing it slightly different, but there's

[1:28:42] not enough data right now to see how it's being used, so people get frustrated like, well,

[1:28:46] nobody's using it.

[1:28:47] Well, that could be a market force, the cost of building is even a small addition to your house is really expensive.

[1:28:56] So people may be making that market adjustment.

[1:28:59] So if you have Greenfield development with higher density or redevelopment taking down single families on the edges,

[1:29:08] but the end of doesn't really have a lot of those options right now, other jurisdictions might.

[1:29:12] So I don't know what we're going to see in terms of mandatory legislation.

[1:29:16] They're going to maybe see something that says in your zoning ordinance, you're required to have X percentage of multi-use.

[1:29:24] I mean, we might start seeing that. I'm sorry, multi-family. We might start seeing that.

[1:29:28] Right. Just a thought, yeah. So that's why I'm thinking, that's why I would say we keep one and two as is.

[1:29:37] I mean, we've done that in the last couple of years. We've got some other really important ones too that could get up there.

[1:29:44] But I'm just thinking maybe trees kind of take us going to go down the list and we bring some of these others up

[1:29:50] We might get more traction with this. Well, I think you have to make this decision leave on leave off

[1:29:54] Right you could have a hundred if you want you could have five. Yeah, but then the ranking

[1:30:00] We've used different formulas, which is fine. We'll figure out a way for you all to score them. But, you know, I think we just need to keep, I do want to keep moving on this because you all are meeting with, you know, our senator and delegate on November 10th. No, October, October 20th. Why is it on here? Oh, I'm sorry, public hearing. I'm sorry. Yeah. So then October.

[1:30:33] Yeah, here it is. Yeah, October 20th. So if you could, if you have a pretty good idea

[1:30:38] after that, how you want to rank them, I mean, if you're ready to rank them, right?

[1:30:42] Okay.

[1:30:43] We can have that ready. I mean, we need to have a pretty good ranking for the public hearing

[1:30:48] that gives you more than two weeks. And then do any final tweaks before we get them to

[1:30:55] you.

[1:30:55] Yeah, final tweaks.

[1:30:56] Okay.

[1:30:56] After we talk to our sender delegate maybe okay get you those by

[1:31:04] And would you like them?

[1:31:07] Well, I think I can

[1:31:10] I'll put it in a new format I what I always started is what we did last year and I add on anything additional

[1:31:15] So we've got four add-ons now yeah, um, you know, there was a general add-on about a specific

[1:31:21] Request so maybe if council Anderson and maybe our economic development

[1:31:26] Director can get together and maybe come up with something that they want to do a specific

[1:31:30] ask that we'll put maybe our couple and then that's you guys will have an updated list

[1:31:37] for some specific requests.

[1:31:39] Okay.

[1:31:40] And that'll make it 24.

[1:31:41] Okay.

[1:31:42] Okay.

[1:31:42] Right.

[1:31:42] So we don't have the updated list yet.

[1:31:44] So they can.

[1:31:44] I can tweak the language.

[1:31:45] I'll use track changes and tweak the language.

[1:31:47] Okay.

[1:31:47] So this isn't with your comments.

[1:31:49] And I've got the I've already pulled some of the vaping updates.

[1:31:52] What I'll do is I'll put a comment next to six.

[1:31:54] in response to what was exactly passed.

[1:31:59] There were some definitions

[1:32:00] and they fixed the loophole about,

[1:32:02] it was a weird thing.

[1:32:03] They didn't intend to do it,

[1:32:04] but you can't buy vaping products if you're under 21.

[1:32:09] Mm-hmm, okay.

[1:32:10] Yeah, they tweak that and then they,

[1:32:12] so that was a easy fix.

[1:32:15] But so I'll give you those,

[1:32:17] so you'll have an idea of what we need to do

[1:32:19] and then they help you rate your ranking.

[1:32:21] All right. Jessica, I was just going to also note that we had, I think in the discussion

[1:32:28] talked about combining the two vaping items into one, which I think could maybe

[1:32:35] be helpful for the ranking two.

[1:32:37] What were the two vaping?

[1:32:38] The ones that-

[1:32:39] One is taxation and one is local control.

[1:32:41] Oh, right.

[1:32:42] Yeah.

[1:32:44] So the-

[1:32:45] Like the regulation of vaping in general.

[1:32:47] What's the counter, Steve, do you have a thought on that?

[1:32:51] Is that combining those, the vaping?

[1:32:54] Well, six was really about, you know, the packaging and, you know, regulation was some of that did pass.

[1:33:02] You know, the locations, how close to schools, that's already in there.

[1:33:05] And then the taxing authority, you know, is kind of added on because, you know, we're losing sales, tobacco sales.

[1:33:14] I think the director of finance thought that up and that's why I got it added on.

[1:33:17] I think that's where that came.

[1:33:19] I think Marion's surface came up with that maybe two years ago.

[1:33:23] But you could combine with six.

[1:33:26] Okay,

[1:33:29] chat.

[1:33:30] Yeah, so I know I came up with a lot of ideas.

[1:33:34] I'm wondering if I can have to seal the Friday to sort of provide you with potential drafts.

[1:33:40] One of which would be a combined, the town's concerned about vaping and

[1:33:45] wants to do the following, increase regulation and be, have the authority to tax something

[1:33:53] along like that.

[1:33:54] Yeah.

[1:33:54] I think just work with Steve.

[1:33:55] I think, you know, and then have Steve.

[1:33:57] You know, I don't think you need to say to us.

[1:33:59] No.

[1:33:59] It's for me.

[1:34:00] So I do it.

[1:34:01] Okay.

[1:34:01] Yeah.

[1:34:02] So if you make your own deadline, see you'll be Friday then I'll get it done.

[1:34:06] Yeah.

[1:34:06] Then maybe I think by next week, if we can get those and get them ranked, does that make

[1:34:12] sense?

[1:34:12] And then we can get them already for October 20th, okay.

[1:34:19] Okay, town manager.

[1:34:21] Yes, Madam Mayor, members of town council, I had a thought about the ranking.

[1:34:26] I, whether it's next week or October 1st or something in between, I think it may be

[1:34:34] more, most efficient for the October 20th work session with the delegate and the senator

[1:34:39] to have already your preferred list so that they know what it is, and then they can let

[1:34:48] you all know what will fly or what won't, and then you can re-rank it again in advance

[1:34:54] of the November 10th public hearing, that's right, perfect, yes.

[1:35:00] Okay, okay, are we ready, old Rae. Comment if we can get down to 10 and have other so that we can focus but I just absolutely. Yeah,

[1:35:17] I was. I'm not clear exactly on the procedure here. What should we each of us individually have. I don't think we haven't. I think that Chuck's going to work on some things. Send them to town attorney.

[1:35:31] And then we're going to email from town tourney and then we will rank.

[1:35:38] At that point, we'll meet with, after we've ranked, we'll meet with our delegate and

[1:35:43] Senator, and then we may decide to re-rank after our discussion with them.

[1:35:48] Maybe we might tweak or something.

[1:35:51] But just keep in mind our conversations tonight and yeah, that's good.

[1:35:58] I'll come up with some kind of system that's a little easier on you.

[1:36:02] We've been using this couple versions over the years.

[1:36:06] Let me see if I can come up with a way that's a little simpler for you all to do.

[1:36:10] Thank you.

[1:36:12] Well, and it's not individually you all do it, and then it's the assembling that is difficult.

[1:36:19] It's not on a spreadsheet.

[1:36:20] Okay.

[1:36:21] Okay.

[1:36:22] Thank you.

[1:36:22] All right.

[1:36:22] Let's take a five minute break.

[1:36:32] Okay, we are back and we are on item number two.

[1:36:36] We're going to look at the capital improvement plan fiscal year's 2026 to 2042, who's a long time from now.

[1:36:43] And we have director of finance with us, Steven Barlow, and I know the town manager would like to say something.

[1:36:50] Yes, Madam Mayor, members of the town council, Steven Barlow is going to give a brief intro to this discussion.

[1:36:57] Just to kind of give the council.

[1:36:59] I think maybe it's just that the the speakers are not to not allow for the room.

[1:37:06] I wonder if it's possible to turn them up a little bit.

[1:37:09] Okay, I really haven't trouble hearing you enough.

[1:37:11] I'm having trouble, I'm sure the members of the audience are having trouble.

[1:37:14] Okay, I'll turn this way, too.

[1:37:16] Okay, Madam Mayor, members of the town council, Stephen Barlow is going to give an intro to this discussion on the CIP.

[1:37:23] and just so the council, I guess, understands what the process will be for this discussion.

[1:37:33] We're not going to have a presentation on every single item up through 2042.

[1:37:38] The directors will react to particular projects that you all have interest in.

[1:37:45] And the directors are not going to use this time to try to persuade necessarily on any particular project.

[1:37:51] But the CIP fits with the revenues that are projected.

[1:37:57] And so we feel good about all the projects, but we certainly will be able to provide detailed

[1:38:03] explanation of any project that you will have and interest in and the merits of all the

[1:38:08] projects.

[1:38:09] So Stephen will begin.

[1:38:12] All right.

[1:38:12] Good evening.

[1:38:13] Can you hear me?

[1:38:14] All right.

[1:38:14] Good.

[1:38:14] So I had a PowerPoint plan, but I think we're having some IT issues here.

[1:38:18] So what I'm going to do is essentially go through the first five pages of the CIP document here.

[1:38:23] That's what my PowerPoint was just in bullet point form, but the first five pages of the CIP document

[1:38:28] are the most important.

[1:38:30] And those five pages in Don if you could go down a little bit.

[1:38:33] Explain what the CIP is, how it's funded, the purpose and value, the process and development,

[1:38:40] inputs and constraints, the assumptions used to build the debt service model,

[1:38:46] and then next steps essentially.

[1:38:49] So what is the CIP?

[1:38:50] It's a long range planning document

[1:38:52] that identifies and prioritizes major infrastructure

[1:38:55] in capital projects.

[1:38:57] It typically covers a 15 to 20 year period.

[1:38:59] For us, it's going to be 2026 to 2042, and it's updated annually.

[1:39:04] So although we only borrow every two years,

[1:39:06] the CIP is updated on an annual basis.

[1:39:09] It focuses on large non-recurring investments

[1:39:12] in such as our roads, water and sewer projects, facilities and parks.

[1:39:17] The CIP is funded through the issuance of general obligation debt for bonds.

[1:39:23] These bonds are paid back via meals tax revenue, water and sewer fees, other funding sources

[1:39:28] such as NVTA and V.O. grants, or outside partnerships.

[1:39:34] The purpose and value is to ensure that strategic long-term planning is done compared to year-to-year reactions.

[1:39:44] It aligns capital spending with council priorities.

[1:39:47] It also provides transparency to the public and stability to staff and contractors.

[1:39:53] As far as the process and development

[1:40:00] In May, department heads submit their project requests to finance. Finance cleans it up, we then meet with the budget committee which is department heads throughout the town. We reviewed the project request for feasibility, cost and timing. The budget committee ranks these projects based on public safety, asset preservation, community benefit, strategic alignment, and funding availability. Once the budget committee ranks those projects, a draft CIP is submitted to

[1:40:29] to town council, and that's where we are tonight,

[1:40:32] for council to not only review the CIP,

[1:40:34] but to provide feedback to staff.

[1:40:41] As far as inputs and constraints

[1:40:42] for that service model,

[1:40:44] we look at our revenue projections,

[1:40:46] that's the most important for meals tax.

[1:40:50] The meals tax funds,

[1:40:52] most of the projects that you'll see in the CIP tonight.

[1:40:55] If it's not meals tax funded,

[1:40:57] it's funded by water and sewer fees,

[1:40:59] which is clearly outlined as water and sewer infrastructure projects,

[1:41:02] projects, or other funding projects such as NVTA or ETA projects, or potential partnerships

[1:41:07] like the advance agreement with Navy Federal.

[1:41:12] Other inputs and constraints that are considered as the town's legal debt capacity, which

[1:41:17] were well under, and project readiness and staffing capacity.

[1:41:25] As far as our assumptions used for the debt service model, we are assuming a 4% meal's

[1:41:31] tax rate effective January 1st.

[1:41:34] We are assuming a meal tax growth rate of 3.75% a year, which is well under our 10 to 15-year average.

[1:41:43] Recently, we've been seeing the meal tax growth, our meal tax month-over-month growth in the 6 to 7% range.

[1:41:50] Folks are still eating out, so we have a very conservative meal tax growth rate number here, 3.75%.

[1:41:57] We factor in our beginning cash balance in the debt service fund, which is 6.1 million.

[1:42:02] We factor in the interest earned

[1:42:04] on that cache, which is 3% annually.

[1:42:07] We also factor in the upcoming bonds,

[1:42:10] 2026 through 2042, and the assumed borrowing rates

[1:42:14] for those bonds, which are anywhere from 4% to 4.75%,

[1:42:18] which is also conservative based on our AAA bond rating.

[1:42:24] So with all those assumptions included,

[1:42:26] we can build out a model for our debt service model

[1:42:29] which you see at the bottom there.

[1:42:31] And based on our projects moving forward,

[1:42:36] The line there is the cash balance in the debt service model.

[1:42:40] It just seems the revenues and the debt service each year.

[1:42:44] So in the early years, based on our proposed projects,

[1:42:50] our cash balance is going to grow in the early years.

[1:42:53] But in the middle to out years, 20, 28, 20, 30,

[1:42:56] we expect some larger debt issues related to the Aquatics and Fitness Center.

[1:43:01] That's when we start to draw down on our cash balance over time and pay back those bonds over a 20-year period.

[1:43:08] And then outside of that, I did have a PowerPoint and I had new projects added.

[1:43:14] So we will send those to council, it clearly states the new projects that were added into the CIP from the last adopted version.

[1:43:21] And then it also says next steps which is outside of this work session, next steps is the adoption in October, October 27th, I believe.

[1:43:30] With that, this is really your time to ask questions to me or other department heads on

[1:43:34] the projects that are included in the CIP or anything else.

[1:43:38] Okay.

[1:43:39] Thank you.

[1:43:40] Thank you, Director.

[1:43:41] Tell me, Inter.

[1:43:42] Yes.

[1:43:43] Madam Mayor, members of the town council, we've worked with the town attorney regarding any

[1:43:49] camper projects that may have a safety of liability issues and none of the projects have

[1:43:54] any liability issues that will give exposure to the town.

[1:43:57] Okay. Thank you for letting us know that. Okay. So, um, let's go through Council. Who would like to start first? Um, Ray, do you want to start first?

[1:44:10] Mayor and town council, I just want to say to Steven Barlow and your staff and I want to make sure you pass us on to your staff.

[1:44:18] have. This is an exceptional report. You are succinct. You're clearly worded. And I

[1:44:30] really appreciate the appendix where you have a summary. You have the funding needed

[1:44:35] in the year it's needed and pictures to show why it's needed. It's one of the finest

[1:44:41] reports I've personally received. And it's a model for everyone to follow in terms not

[1:44:47] Do you use the same words, but the same process?

[1:44:51] So right now I'm going to refrain from asking any questions

[1:44:54] but some of the others.

[1:44:56] But I think that you have answered many questions

[1:44:59] by the clear.

[1:45:00] Thank you, what you presented the material.

[1:45:04] Okay, thank you, Ray. Roy, are you ready? Yes, first of all, on page

[1:45:14] 5 ongoing projects.

[1:45:23] About 1.5 of the way down, you have available premium and contingency at June 30th of this year. 1 million forward in 82,000.

[1:45:34] That seems high to me, isn't it most years, it's like 600,000 or so?

[1:45:44] So on page 5, the ongoing projects listing is the 2022 and 2024 bond issuance combined.

[1:45:52] So we did have 700,000 each of those bond years in combination, but to the far right you see the remaining balance of 18,000, so that contingency has been spent.

[1:46:03] All right. On page 9, about one-third of the way down, there's a figure for in-car slash body

[1:46:14] one cameras for police that at $72,000. Isn't that part of the RFID grant?

[1:46:25] Yes, it is, but our RFID funds are basically spent at this point, and if they're not,

[1:46:31] not, they need to be spent by December 2026.

[1:46:34] So what we're counting for here and what Chief can also speak to is essentially the continued funding of the body-worn cameras past ARPA.

[1:46:45] So we need to find another funding source for these body camps.

[1:46:48] Okay.

[1:46:49] Yeah, exactly, Stephen did it now on ahead.

[1:46:53] We were able to fund it through 26, this is actually going to be 27's funding of those programs.

[1:46:58] And then as we discussed it in the budget committee, we discussed, we really don't want that in the CIP.

[1:47:03] We kind of want that in the operating costs, so we'll find a way to get in the operating cost.

[1:47:07] But this would get through 27 for the funding of both programs.

[1:47:12] All right, thank you.

[1:47:13] Now on page 10, the second item, property acquisition for tourism of $4 million.

[1:47:23] My understanding was that we were going to be the beneficiaries of a grant in that amount.

[1:47:33] So, and Nicole's Director of Economic Development is coming up as well.

[1:47:38] We did apply for a grant, and Nicole, you want to expand on that?

[1:47:44] Hey, yes.

[1:47:45] So we had applied for a grant with Congress, and it was not included in the most recent appropriation bill.

[1:47:55] We do have $1 million which is reflected in the CIP other funding column, but the remaining $4 million would need to be funded through the town or other sources as Councilmember Anderson has indicated, but I will note that you would need to include it in the CIP to have the option to move forward probably because then if you didn't get the state funds, then you wouldn't be able to move forward with the project.

[1:48:24] In fact, if you did get state funds or other sources of funding, you would be able to go back in the future year CIP to reallocate those funds, but you would need to appropriate it to move forward with this project.

[1:48:39] You can also, sorry.

[1:48:41] That being the case, I would, I'm sure I'm not suggesting something that you haven't already thought of, but it was seen to me that this 4 million plus the next amount for

[1:48:52] or the 3,200, I'm sorry, 3.2 million for a town hall interior renovation might be projects that we could approach our state representatives for possible funding by the general assembly.

[1:49:09] If the other funding just doesn't follow through.

[1:49:18] I think it's possible, I think there is an element of an option agreement here so there is a timing constraint, that's one of the issues too.

[1:49:24] We don't have time to really wait around for outside funding opportunity, it's either we take this opportunity now, or you know, we let it pass.

[1:49:34] So I think that is an element.

[1:49:36] Yes, Madam Mayor, members of the town council, regarding the two projects mentioned the acquisition for the tourism.

[1:49:47] So I do have a thought that it could be eligible for general assembly consideration, quite possibly.

[1:49:58] However, the town...

[1:50:00] A hall renovation, 3,200,000, I'm not sure that that would be something that the general assembly would strongly consider.

[1:50:11] That's just, I just have, I don't think I've seen that in my career where the general assembly would fund that.

[1:50:20] But I would think that the acquisition for the tourism piece would probably be strongly considered as my guess.

[1:50:30] Although it would be considered, you would not be able to count on it in time for you to make this decision.

[1:50:37] Yeah. And by the way, when do we have to make the decision on that?

[1:50:41] So the decision on actually closing on the property is two years from April of this year.

[1:50:47] And so you will still come to a vote after public feedback and after diligence on the actual building itself is completed.

[1:50:57] So you will have that two-year diligence period to actually discuss and vote on the closing

[1:51:04] on that property.

[1:51:06] What you do need to decide on in the CIP is whether or not you would like to fund the

[1:51:11] acquisition of that or not.

[1:51:13] And so that obviously the timing is a little bit different.

[1:51:18] But you in order for us to close in that time frame, you would need to pass that CIP item

[1:51:25] now because we operate on a two-year CIP.

[1:51:34] All right.

[1:51:35] I want to also take advantage of my microphone time here by asking a general question.

[1:51:42] As far as vehicle replacement, my question is why not put vehicle replacement under the

[1:51:50] CIP so that it's financed by bonds rather than by the general fund?

[1:51:54] And

[1:51:57] it's something you could do.

[1:52:00] Obviously we have limited funding sources already for the CIP.

[1:52:05] The primary source is the Meals Tax Revenue, which already limits us on our CIP.

[1:52:09] A lot of other localities use general funds to fund their CIP.

[1:52:12] We could certainly build it in and use Meals Tax Revenue for vehicle replacements, but

[1:52:19] I wouldn't recommend it.

[1:52:20] And it wouldn't really fit into a GO bond, it would fit into something else because vehicles

[1:52:25] vehicles have a shorter lifespan than these long-term infrastructure projects and facility projects.

[1:52:32] So, you know, you could certainly use other sources of revenue to pay for vehicles.

[1:52:38] But it wouldn't fit necessarily into the CIP per se.

[1:52:41] Okay.

[1:52:42] Thanks.

[1:52:44] Okay.

[1:52:45] Is that it, Roy?

[1:52:46] Yeah.

[1:52:47] Okay.

[1:52:47] Thank you.

[1:52:47] Okay.

[1:52:48] Chuck, do you want to go?

[1:52:51] I'll be brief, my understanding is that this is our initial review to give us an idea of how

[1:52:59] you see basically the revenues coming in from the mail's tax and possible expenditures that it

[1:53:11] could be applied to so that you can get ready to go out to the bond market early next year to get the

[1:53:18] funding that would then provide us with the money to do these things.

[1:53:22] And that's what we're here for right now.

[1:53:25] What we're not here for right now is to decide on specific projects.

[1:53:29] And I just want to make that clear for the public, this in no way is committing us to any specific project.

[1:53:35] It's essentially a budgeting exercise so that Mr. Barlow can go to the bond wizards and say, this is why we need the money.

[1:53:48] So in that regard, I am not going to make any comments on any particular projects.

[1:53:55] None of these projects would ever come to realization until almost certainly the following

[1:54:01] council when they would have to be voted separately in terms of appropriating money.

[1:54:06] I have no problems with how it's set out.

[1:54:11] The one request I would make before we do a vote on this is that there was a figure

[1:54:21] in the final version of the Parks Master Plan on page 102, I found it finally, indicating

[1:54:32] creating a 10-year need of $24.4 million for CIP funds based on their needs of takeaways

[1:54:41] without the aquatic center, and I just want to see what the backup for that is.

[1:54:47] And I don't need to see it tonight.

[1:54:49] Just put that request out there.

[1:54:53] Were you prepped on this question?

[1:54:54] Someone.

[1:54:55] Okay.

[1:54:56] Yes,

[1:54:58] so thank you for your question.

[1:55:00] Question, Leslie Herman, parks and rec. The, I reached out to David Samba with Kim Lee Horan to get the detail for that. Currently, what was because they used the 2023 CIP to project the numbers. Only about 6.8 million was towards parks projects. So there was a difference of, was that 13 million, no, 13, 18 million. So I'm going to find out from

[1:55:29] David and I will respond to you by email and share it with all the council.

[1:55:33] Thank you.

[1:55:37] Okay. Anything else?

[1:55:39] Check anything else?

[1:55:41] Okay. All right, Jessica.

[1:55:45] Thank you.

[1:55:47] I have a few things that I'd like to highlight and talk about.

[1:55:52] So I think one, just in terms of the timeline and what projects are

[1:55:56] are slated to come earlier. I'm really glad about the

[1:56:08] I also know the report mentions the draft plan mentions that there are a lot of drainage

[1:56:18] issues there and so the work would help to resolve that.

[1:56:23] I think that's important.

[1:56:24] I also appreciate that Kathy Field is there, similarly with drainage issues.

[1:56:30] I was wondering if there had been discussion, because I know one of the items here is the replacement of the turf on water's field.

[1:56:39] Has it been discussed at the possibility of making coffee fields turf?

[1:56:45] Has that been talked about?

[1:56:50] And I'll just say by way of transition to talking a little bit more about this,

[1:56:56] that fields that have turf, of course, can also host tournaments.

[1:57:00] They can be something that could generate revenues.

[1:57:03] So I'll just be interested to hear if that has been explored.

[1:57:10] Thank you for your question.

[1:57:12] So we did approach VDSL via an agriol softball league years ago about that, turfing.

[1:57:18] And they do not want turf fields.

[1:57:21] So that kind of put a stop to that.

[1:57:24] And thank you.

[1:57:25] So what you said years ago was that I just wonder if I haven't spoken with VGS all about it,

[1:57:32] but I just wonder if there have been recent conversations or if it's something just that was.

[1:57:36] There have not been any recent conversations.

[1:57:40] There

[1:57:43] are other projects that they like to work on, which we've identified in the CIP and they've

[1:57:49] also been willing to fund some of those, but they've also in the past years contributed a significant

[1:57:54] amount to improving the infields.

[1:57:56] Yes.

[1:57:57] I appreciate that.

[1:57:58] Thank you.

[1:57:58] Thank you very much, Director Herman.

[1:58:01] I think a few other projects that I would just, oh, well, I guess one theme that I would

[1:58:07] raise is just I know as we talked about the capital improvement plan and the resources for

[1:58:12] it.

[1:58:13] As you've talked about, Director Barlow, just how much of what the resources are that support

[1:58:19] these projects come from the Meals Tax and from our restaurants and from those in

[1:58:26] the greater organic community who come to enjoy it, we have a Vienna. So I'm very interested

[1:58:30] in what we can be doing to incorporate thinking with intention about a strategy of how these

[1:58:37] uses funds in the CIP can support our business community. I know we received some ideas and

[1:58:45] feedback from the town business liaison committee. I know they are interested in the acquisition

[1:58:52] of the property that we've talked about. So I do have questions about that. There are also

[1:58:58] other items that they've raised just that including the streakscape improvements and wanting

[1:59:05] to concentrate those so that they could have a greater impact, which I thought was a really

[1:59:12] good interesting idea. They also express support for a facade and property interior improvement

[1:59:18] program so a way to have again some intention around cultivating spaces in a way that is

[1:59:25] attractive and reinforces what a lovely place Vienna is to enjoy dining out and just being

[1:59:32] out on the town. So I would love to hear your thoughts on what we heard from the town business

[1:59:39] liaison committee. So this is posted on Tuesday and TBLC met on Thursday and so one of their

[1:59:48] topics of discussion was how can we make sure that we are representing the business community

[1:59:54] to council and one of the things that they had heard during the conversation about

[1:59:57] emails tax from you all was you

[2:00:00] I wanted to hear from them the business community about how you can best support the business community. And so they went through this list that you all had and identified economic development related items that were shown there. They had noticed that the street scape was pushed back and I think that some of that was something that they were excited about. So they had identified that item. They were excited about that acquisition.

[2:00:29] of the property as it kind of opens up that church street area, as a destination right now,

[2:00:35] it looks kind of like a dead zone when you look towards church street and mostly because of that

[2:00:40] lighted building. And so they see that as an opportunity to bring people into the town and start

[2:00:46] shopping and going that way. And so they were supportive of those two items and they had just made a

[2:00:54] general comment that they didn't and you know a lot of our infrastructure is you know roads and

[2:01:00] things of that nature so there's not inherently a lot of economic development projects that will be

[2:01:04] on here but just made a comment that there was kind of not very many and asked if we were able to put

[2:01:11] some of their requests that were in operational budget into capital projects and so that was something

[2:01:17] that they had explored, and that was one of the things that they had talked about.

[2:01:23] It was that facade improvement program that was in the operating request.

[2:01:29] Thank you.

[2:01:30] So I'd like to see us further consider the thoughts from the town business liaison committee as we work to finalize this.

[2:01:38] I think that's really important, valuable feedback.

[2:01:41] I think, as we think about the vibrancy of Vienna to me, the businesses that we have in town,

[2:01:47] especially the small independent businesses are such a part of the character of our town.

[2:01:52] And I feel like a lot of discussion that we've heard recently is about what we can be doing

[2:01:57] as a town to be transparent about our budget, talk about where our resources go, and then

[2:02:02] also to really think strategically about how we can support our businesses.

[2:02:08] So, I really would like us to do that with some intention as we work to finalize the CIP.

[2:02:16] I'd also, on the property acquisition piece, I do think it has a lot of potential, and

[2:02:23] I'm really interested in the prospect.

[2:02:25] I think a question I had, and I know this has been discussed some already, is if we put

[2:02:30] But $4 million in our capital improvement plan as a commitment or not even a commitment,

[2:02:38] but as a signal that this is something that we could take the option on later, would

[2:02:43] we be compromising a position of where we could seek funding elsewhere?

[2:02:49] If we've already made the decision to dedicate town resources to it, I would like to see the

[2:02:54] project continue to be explored for us to work on it and get the public input that we've

[2:02:59] talked about and I appreciate what you're saying about two years, April and two years

[2:03:05] being a time frame where we would need to be well positioned to act if that's the decision

[2:03:09] of a council at that time.

[2:03:11] I'm just concerned that having something in the CIP at this time could be inhibiting in

[2:03:17] some way so that the grant grants generally that are available are usually for property

[2:03:27] improvements in blighted or historic buildings, acquisition is rarely a way to receive grants.

[2:03:35] And so, a way to receive grants.

[2:03:39] And so, the form that we had already received funding, which was congressional is unlikely

[2:03:44] in the future.

[2:03:45] The state prospect is certainly a way to do that, but there wouldn't be any restriction

[2:03:50] on already committed funds through a CIP, it would just be a line item in the budget.

[2:03:55] And so, it would be a directive of the General Assembly to fund this and you could just reallocate those funds to the improvement of property, for example, or to other projects that are needed within the town or move forward other projects.

[2:04:11] So, it is much more difficult to receive outside funding through grants that do have that kind of restriction that you're talking about.

[2:04:20] But for the acquisition, the general assembly appropriating funds, that would not be a problem.

[2:04:29] Okay, so maybe that's just something we can further consider.

[2:04:32] But I appreciate what you're saying about that.

[2:04:35] I think it's good food for thought.

[2:04:39] One other thing I thought would be good related to concerns, businesses have brought forward,

[2:04:44] is if we were to revisit the parking study that we all spent a lot of time talking through

[2:04:50] earlier this year and seeing if there were items related to the parking study that we

[2:04:56] thought were good to incorporate in the capital improvement plan.

[2:05:00] It was interesting, as I was talking to business owners in the town, one idea that was there that I thought we could take another look at was the idea of what in that plan is called micro transit, but the idea of a trolley, like something that would help with getting people around the community so they could park somewhere and then have an easy way to get around to different businesses in town. And I thought, well, you know, that was something that came out

[2:05:29] up in the parking study that we haven't come back to since we discussed it earlier

[2:05:35] this year. So I don't know, I know we have other topics to discuss tonight, but I don't

[2:05:42] know tell manager if you have thoughts on how best to kind of take a look at, we had

[2:05:47] gone through the exercise with director Levy about how to rank our level of interest

[2:05:52] on different items on the parking study and what we might like to consider. Is there

[2:05:59] a way to do that, or refer to that document and all that thoughtful work that was done

[2:06:07] to kind of incorporate it into this process.

[2:06:10] We can take a look, a fair amount.

[2:06:12] Some of it were things like you said, the micro transit concept, a lot of them were more

[2:06:18] regulatory in nature and sort of changes that we would make to potentially that you would

[2:06:23] choose to make to the zoning ordinance.

[2:06:26] I think before I would recommend give staff a chance to review quickly, we can do that

[2:06:33] tomorrow the next day to see if there's anything in there that has a direct implication on

[2:06:38] the CIP.

[2:06:39] If you want to explore micro transit, we should jump right into that, but I would caution

[2:06:43] just really taking the time to think it through because many places have tried that sort

[2:06:49] of thing and just to be a little blunt don't get a lot of ridership so I think I think it's a kind

[2:06:57] of it does carry operating expenses so but give us another chance to look at the document itself

[2:07:07] think about it and we'll send an email out to everybody to talk about which recommendations have

[2:07:11] CIP impacts and the mayor actually raised that we bring back the parking as well the last time we

[2:07:15] folks so maybe it'll be due for us to get together and put an agenda on some time in the future.

[2:07:21] Thank

[2:07:24] you.

[2:07:26] Okay, just can anything else?

[2:07:29] I do have other things I'm thinking about, but I'm happy to have them as a follow up if

[2:07:34] it's helpful.

[2:07:35] Do you have any more questions for anything you see that needs to, you would like to see

[2:07:43] move for anything?

[2:07:44] The one other item that I do have thoughts about that I know could take further consideration is the renovation and town hall.

[2:07:53] I understand that the town hall renovation has been something that has been considered for some time and that we had again consultant who did an assessment of the space and gave recommendations for that.

[2:08:11] I'm the amount here gives me pause and the timing of it.

[2:08:16] So I feel like it would be helpful to understand if it could be done in phases.

[2:08:23] If there are top priorities, I understand, for example,

[2:08:26] that the area on the first floor of Town Hall was, I think,

[2:08:32] a lot of the study for how the space could be used in a way that's more suitable

[2:08:36] We're vulnerable for meeting with residents and for town staff when they need to have conversations and meeting space with residents who are among each other to deal with issues that we don't have a space that is best oriented toward that type of work and how best to welcome visitors including residents so prioritizing that make that's clear to me I just was wondering about the dollar amount here and like I said it gave me pause.

[2:09:03] Yeah, so that dollar amount in 2028, the $3.2 million is to do renovations in the whole entire building.

[2:09:14] Minus the council chambers area and the portion of the basement that's already been renovated.

[2:09:20] So just going back a little bit, the council approved staff to move forward with the design of just the first floor to implement the changes like you just described.

[2:09:31] You know, more convenient places to meet with residents, you know,

[2:09:36] reconfiguration of the spaces to, you know, more equitably distribute space

[2:09:41] have, you know, HR in a better location, you know, planning and zoning that

[2:09:46] a bit of a deficit right now and to, you know, accommodate the staff

[2:09:50] and the residents on the first floor.

[2:09:52] So that design was funded with ARPAs and is in progress right now.

[2:09:56] But the 3

[2:10:00] $200,000, that's in 2026. Budget committee recommends to proceed with the design of the rest of the spaces in the second floor and the basement. Because what we're finding is we're locked in to equally distributing space amongst the first floor only when there's movement that can be made between the second floor, the first floor and the basement. So we'd like to be able to design the whole space and not just the first floor.

[2:10:29] But to answer your question, it could be broken up into phases, you know, to do the first floor renovation, maybe the first floor renovation in two phases, but we won't know until we design the whole thing.

[2:10:45] The bathrooms, that's also been something that has been in progress for a while in town hall.

[2:10:52] It started before the renovation project. We're in the permitting process for that right now.

[2:10:58] So the construction for the bathrooms is another line in the capital improvement plan for 2026 for $200,000.

[2:11:14] Excellent.

[2:11:15] Tom Andrew.

[2:11:16] Yes, Madam Mayor.

[2:11:17] I remember the council just a clarification on south side, south side park ball fields.

[2:11:23] The scoreboards are included in that.

[2:11:26] Is that correct?

[2:11:28] Okay.

[2:11:29] Okay, good.

[2:11:30] And then also just another clarification.

[2:11:31] So, what we're looking for tonight is general direction, so when we come back on October 27th when the Council considers adoption of the CIP, which would be adoption of SAP through 2042, as well as looking at the 2026 bond.

[2:11:51] And so the status of the staff knows what to bring to the council for the October 27th meeting.

[2:12:00] So what we're looking for tonight is general direction, either tonight or

[2:12:06] general direction in the coming weeks so that we are aware of what we should put before the council for approval on the 27th of October.

[2:12:15] Okay. Okay. Okay. I have a question for Director Herman. So a while back we talked

[2:12:22] about the sign on Nutley Street that has all of our nonprofits and at the time I

[2:12:29] know it needs to be we need a new sign. It's it's looking pretty bad and then

[2:12:34] there's a lot of new nonprofits that would like to get their logo up but you were

[2:12:40] going to look into maybe a completely new design for that.

[2:12:46] Where are we on that?

[2:12:47] Yes.

[2:12:47] Correct.

[2:12:48] So that was going to be on the CIP, which was not funded in 2023.

[2:12:52] Right.

[2:12:53] So I believe I was just reviewing the CIP closely again tonight and I noticed that it's not included.

[2:13:01] Right.

[2:13:01] So I don't know if there's a way we can add that in.

[2:13:05] I think we had put $50,000 towards it.

[2:13:10] In the past, I can speak more with the finance director.

[2:13:16] Yeah, I mean, you know, we're looking at borrowing $8.5 million in 2026.

[2:13:21] So, you know, if council decides to move forward with a $50,000 project, it wouldn't have a massive impact on the debt model.

[2:13:29] Right? I have gotten some requests from some of the new or nonprofits saying, hey,

[2:13:37] our logo on there, but it's going to be a completely new, I think, design,

[2:13:43] correct? That's correct. Something easier, better. I don't know what you were.

[2:13:47] Yes, much more attractive, more noticeable. Sure. Yeah, something to be proud of.

[2:13:52] Right. Yeah, because we rely so much on our nonprofits to do so much in the town.

[2:13:56] Thank you. Thank you. I think I agree. So is that something I just wanted some feedback from council

[2:14:03] I wanted to bring that up. I brought that before and we've talked about it, but I think it is important because

[2:14:08] Our nonprofits do so much for us and it's just a sign kind of letting everybody know you know the rotary club people come into town from other

[2:14:17] jurisdictions from other states and go to our rotary club meetings. We know that it's a really big deal for the rotary ritarians

[2:14:25] So, for $50,000 it seems like maybe that's something we could add, I don't know what the

[2:14:30] rest of the council thinks about that.

[2:14:35] Roy?

[2:14:36] I certainly think so.

[2:14:38] Okay.

[2:14:40] I see some nodding.

[2:14:41] Okay.

[2:14:42] All right.

[2:14:42] Thank you.

[2:14:43] Okay.

[2:14:44] All right.

[2:14:44] I don't really have any other questions.

[2:14:46] I think we have so many good projects here.

[2:14:49] And the range I love looking at the range from ball fields to drainage projects that residents

[2:14:56] and have really had some issues in their neighborhood.

[2:15:00] We're going to get fixed, some transportation projects, swimming pools, town hall renovation, so many good projects here. And Steven, I think you and your team did a fantastic job at the whole finance group that put this together. Did a really good job because we can't do them all at the same time, but I think they're laid out really nicely. And this whole packet is really good. So I have no other questions right now.

[2:15:31] Yes, Madam Mayor, members of the town council, this is just an idea for the moment.

[2:15:40] So we don't have two council members with us this evening.

[2:15:44] And so this is a version of a SAP that works.

[2:15:52] It would be helpful for staff, maybe if we receive comment and feedback from the council

[2:15:58] of October 1st regarding any changes to what is before you and for the CIP to be passed

[2:16:12] by the council takes four council members to do that.

[2:16:15] So if there's any movement of projects back or forward, adding projects that's not even listed here, that you all are interested in or taking things out or all together, if you all could let us know that and we'll count to four with any particular iteration of modification and by October 1st, we will

[2:16:43] So we will, I guess we'll run with what we have based on your interaction with us.

[2:16:50] So this is the starting point, and to give you an example, if we don't hear anything by October 1st,

[2:16:57] then this is what we would take to the Council for the October 27th for the approval.

[2:17:03] And likewise, we hear by October 27th that four council members want to change something.

[2:17:08] in one way or another, then we will move in that manner.

[2:17:11] Is that acceptable to the council?

[2:17:13] It's okay.

[2:17:14] Okay.

[2:17:15] Go ahead, Roy.

[2:17:16] Could I just ask, are you talking about feedback just on the bond year for 2026?

[2:17:24] No, a feedback and commentary on all of the years, because every, although every year

[2:17:31] Whether we reorient, we re-prioritize based on more information, based on more information

[2:17:39] on dollars, based on more information on project priority, they may change from year to year,

[2:17:46] but it is good information for us to know a project in 2028 or a project in 2032 is good

[2:17:54] for us to know how important it is to you all and where it falls, but it is good to think

[2:18:01] Think about in two parts, one, this is a bond here, so 2026 is important.

[2:18:06] But also, 2028, 3032, those are important as well.

[2:18:10] And if you see a project, for example, in 2034 that you just don't like, and

[2:18:15] for council members don't like it, then we need to know that so we can pull it out.

[2:18:20] And likewise, if you see something in 2036 that you want in 2032, and

[2:18:25] four of you say to do that, that's helpful for us as well.

[2:18:28] Also, we need a comprehensive view of what your impression is through 2042.

[2:18:35] That's good because I do refer to Councilmember Springsteen's email in which he makes a comment like that about the drainage issue on

[2:18:48] Center Street and Church Street in Maple Avenue, which he would like to have moved up from 2042 so we can let him know

[2:18:55] So with that in writing, by October 1st, it'll be.

[2:18:59] And we received that, so if we could have for the other council members that would go along with that, that's what we would make that change.

[2:19:10] So just as a clarifying question, we would need to respond by October 1st with what changes we would recommend together with if there are other members of three other members of the council.

[2:19:22] but not so we won't have another opportunity to discuss in a public meeting, but we are to email our and

[2:19:39] then and confer with other members of could you

[2:19:43] All right.

[2:19:43] Sure, absolutely.

[2:19:45] Sure.

[2:19:46] Fits together, process-wise, and with having an opportunity to deliberate.

[2:19:51] Sure.

[2:19:52] Madam Mayor.

[2:19:53] Yes.

[2:19:53] So, members of council.

[2:19:55] So, there are no ways to this could happen.

[2:19:57] One is council members can talk to you.

[2:20:00] Each other individually and find out where each other are on various projects and then let us know individually that you want to move a project one way or another. We can also have another work session because there's nothing necessarily special about October 27th necessarily. You know, we're not bound by an end year fiscal year of June 30th, for example. So if we wanted to come back and have another work session,

[2:20:29] And we can do that.

[2:20:31] There's nothing saying that we can't do that.

[2:20:33] I think our next work session is October 20th.

[2:20:41] I think we're at VML on October 13th.

[2:20:44] So October 20th is a work session.

[2:20:46] So if this council wanted to have another work session

[2:20:50] on this on October 20th, certainly we can do that.

[2:20:53] It's up to you all how comfortable you are

[2:20:56] with having conversations with each other individually

[2:21:01] and then finding out where each other are, or be if you're more comfortable in coming

[2:21:06] back into this setting and having a conversation in a work session.

[2:21:12] The only thing that I would, I have no preference either way.

[2:21:16] The only thing that would just be clarifying for the staff is one of those two paths giving

[2:21:21] us direction.

[2:21:22] So I wouldn't want to have another work session on October 20th and then we don't really

[2:21:29] have for council members telling us which way to go and I wouldn't want to have a situation

[2:21:36] where you all are talking individually and we still don't have a direction which way

[2:21:39] to go. So whichever way is most comfortable to the council, if it's more comfortable to

[2:21:44] the council for example to have another workshop on the 20th we can do that but we just need

[2:21:51] direction.

[2:21:52] Right. I mean perhaps I mean tonight we did have an opportunity to talk about things I didn't

[2:21:57] and here or anyone with too many huge concerns.

[2:22:02] You know, I would think as just being,

[2:22:06] giving each other the consideration and respect

[2:22:10] that if there is something major,

[2:22:12] somebody wants to move that we would talk to each other

[2:22:15] and not just send in something to Mercury

[2:22:17] and then some of us maybe don't hear about it or whatever.

[2:22:20] And so I think that if we could agree to that,

[2:22:23] that's what I would suggest.

[2:22:24] Yes.

[2:22:26] And Madam Mayor, members of the council and one thing, here's a third way, I guess, is that if we're hearing from two council members about a concern about a particular project or something, then we can have an on October 20th, a work session to maybe talk about those few items that there are concerns about instead of talking about the entire CIP again, I just don't want us to spend the energy of having a whole conversation again and still not having direction.

[2:22:54] So just, I think the most important thing is direction, how we get there, and we can do it in a number of ways, and I think student.

[2:23:01] Yeah, so I think it's very important we get clear direction at least on 2026.

[2:23:06] The CIP 2028 and onward is for planning purposes.

[2:23:10] So if we're uncomfortable about 2028 and onward, we can talk about that later.

[2:23:14] We can talk about that and change it next year in a planning year.

[2:23:17] But in 2026, we need clear direction, I think, as soon as possible because we are working side by side with our financial advisors Davenport.

[2:23:25] And if we want to close January 1 on our debt, because there's projects that need to be done, there's transportation, there's concrete maintaining our streets.

[2:23:32] There's a variety of things that need to be done soon, because there's currently no funding for those projects.

[2:23:37] We need clear guidance on 2026, and I think we need to adopt on October 27th, so we can do that.

[2:23:44] Yes, Stephen makes a good point.

[2:23:45] I'm glad you said that because while there is nothing special about October 27th, there is something special about October 27th.

[2:23:54] And that is as we delay approval, in particular, I think it impacts public works the most because there are projects in public works that have to be done in the spring, summer and fall time.

[2:24:08] And so the more that we delay the bond for

[2:24:13] that purpose in particular, there are drainage projects and all kind of other projects that are public works related.

[2:24:20] That if we miss a certain window, we miss project time.

[2:24:27] So I'm glad Steven mentioned that October 27th is special for that purpose, not necessarily a statutory purpose or anything like that.

[2:24:34] but just from a practical project accomplishments standpoint.

[2:24:38] So we actually, we recommend that October 27th, that there is direction one way or the other, whatever that is.

[2:24:50] So, I was just going to suggest that we put a placeholder in for October 20th for a work session.

[2:24:56] We'll see if we need a, I suspect we will, because-

[2:25:00] Because it's too many moving pieces with too many different parties, and who knows how much horse trading there's gonna be, maybe a little, maybe a lot, who knows. But I would go ahead and put a placeholder. And in the meantime, we'll try to hash it out. Yes, Madam Mayor, that's the most important thing. I think October 20th will get the most value out of October 20th. If council members between now and then talk individually amongst themselves to get.

[2:25:29] To get a I guess a consensus or understanding of where each other where you all are as a group.

[2:25:35] So October 20th would get us one way or the other.

[2:25:40] Okay,

[2:25:42] sounds good.

[2:25:43] Thank you.

[2:25:44] All right.

[2:25:45] Anyone else?

[2:25:48] Okay.

[2:25:48] I think we're done.

[2:25:50] All right.

[2:25:50] Any and then you had open discussion.

[2:25:52] So is there anything else?

[2:25:53] Anybody?

[2:25:55] Oh, carry forward.

[2:25:56] Yes.

[2:25:57] How did I forget?

[2:25:58] All right.

[2:25:59] Thank you.

[2:26:00] Yes, we do.

[2:26:01] All right, let's talk about that.

[2:26:03] Okay, don't you mind bringing that one up as these supplemental appropriations tab up top so this one historically we've had a work session

[2:26:15] It's not required. I can just help explain leading up to the public hearing and the adoption of the supplemental appropriations, which essentially are

[2:26:23] Existing purchase orders or commitments in out of the 2025 operating budget that we need to carry forward into 2026

[2:26:31] These are obligations that have been made, but not delivered.

[2:26:36] So what you're going to see a lot of here is vehicles.

[2:26:40] We have $1.5 million of vehicles that we borrowed for.

[2:26:44] They've been approved in the previous budget, but they have not been delivered yet.

[2:26:47] They're on an existing purchase order.

[2:26:49] So we have a commitment to purchase them.

[2:26:51] They just haven't been delivered and paid.

[2:26:53] So that's why these purchase orders for vehicles down here.

[2:26:59] There's about 20 of them.

[2:27:01] They include dump trucks, material spreaders, up fittings for police vehicles, and things

[2:27:08] like that.

[2:27:11] So we're requesting to bring those purchase orders forward into 2026 because the total

[2:27:18] amount of the purchase orders moving forward or carry forward are over 1% of next year's budget.

[2:27:24] It's state law and state code to require public carrying.

[2:27:26] So that's essentially what we're doing here if there's any discussion needed on it.

[2:27:32] There's also at the bottom there about 10 purchase orders that we are requesting to bring

[2:27:39] forward as well.

[2:27:41] These are projects that have been started but not completed so they're also on a purchase

[2:27:47] order.

[2:27:50] And department heads are here to speak to those if there's any questions on them but these

[2:27:55] These are commitments that have been made, but the service has not been completed or paid yet, so we're requesting to move on forward.

[2:28:04] Any questions on that?

[2:28:10] Right.

[2:28:13] Again, your information is just very well presented.

[2:28:17] In terms on page three, the various vendor names, your spreading amount of several.

[2:28:28] Is it because no one is really excellent or is it that you're covering your bases?

[2:28:34] is why so many?

[2:28:38] As far as the vendors that we contract with.

[2:28:40] Right.

[2:28:41] You have, in other words, she might be the best

[2:28:45] for those particular patrol vehicles.

[2:28:51] But you have intercon.

[2:28:55] I think it really depends on their specialty.

[2:28:57] We also have a number of rideable contracts and,

[2:29:02] you know, contracts that we can use for specific types of vehicles.

[2:29:05] vehicles, I think it really depends on, you know, what we're ordering.

[2:29:11] So yeah, we use cheeky forward for most of our trucks and most of our police vehicles.

[2:29:16] But Cain, you know, international trucks, and I'm sure Brad, you probably speak to this

[2:29:19] more, but it really depends on the contract and the specialty, and we have a number of vendors

[2:29:26] we can purchase from.

[2:29:28] In other words, you've used them for how many years?

[2:29:33] Number of years.

[2:29:34] Okay.

[2:29:34] So that leads to my next question.

[2:29:36] Is it just comfortable to stay with the same owner as it competitively bid?

[2:29:40] It's competitively bid or through the rideable contract.

[2:29:43] So we're following procurement guidelines.

[2:29:46] We have a number of contracts we ride through the county or other localities.

[2:29:50] And they're all purchasing through these same vendors.

[2:29:53] So in some cases, she, he, for those lower dollar ones, we can just get a quote and

[2:29:59] per

[2:30:00] Just said, that's within our guidelines, if it's $130,000, but once it gets over $30,000, we need a contract in place, and that's either bid out or we ride through another locality. Are you disappointed in any of these vendors? Are they excellent? As of now, these vendors are meeting the requirements of their contract. But if we do run into a situation where we're not pleased with their delivery or their services,

[2:30:29] that they provide, we can essentially cancel those contracts for non-performance.

[2:30:42] I have a more basic question, I guess, which is founded in my short time on the town

[2:30:50] council.

[2:30:51] I'm just trying to figure out where in the adopted budget we have these amounts for vehicle

[2:30:58] replacements in the first place.

[2:31:00] I'm looking at adopted budget for fiscal year 2025-26 and I just don't see the these amounts.

[2:31:10] Can you come over and help you in real time?

[2:31:14] I don't know off the top of my head.

[2:31:16] Let's see.

[2:31:19] This says that these roll forwards, for instance, I've got, yeah, I've got probably

[2:31:29] in the

[2:31:29] back here.

[2:31:30] Let's see, and if not, I can point

[2:31:36] you in the right direction later.

[2:31:38] Okay, I've got a couple of bookmarks here for one for police, which is, but I'll see them there.

[2:31:47] No, it's not going to be in the individual department budgets.

[2:31:57] I think it's going to be in the one nine, there you go, one nine one four one, general fund capital lease financing.

[2:32:04] So within Division 19141, capital leases is what we call them.

[2:32:09] You can see the budget of $1.5 million in 2025.

[2:32:14] Page 336, all right, okay, so now I'm on the right page.

[2:32:20] So

[2:32:23] I'm going to come up with a question that director Barlow cannot answer.

[2:32:29] Okay,

[2:32:33] anyone else?

[2:32:39] All right.

[2:32:40] Okay, so yeah, next steps for this will be the October 6th public hearing, and again, we hold a public hearing just because this is 1% of next year's budget that we are going to bring forward.

[2:32:52] Mark, do you have anything you'd like to add here?

[2:32:56] No, thank you, Stephen.

[2:33:00] Okay, anything else, Dr. Okay, and we had the open discussion.

[2:33:05] I know there was something you wanted to mention to mentor.

[2:33:07] Yes, Madam Mayor, members of town council, this is, I think the first time we've tried this new thing called open discussion, it is a work session.

[2:33:15] So if council members want to talk about anything particular, I know that the last meeting, there was a conversation about the comprehensive plan and the scheduling of it.

[2:33:23] So if you want to talk about that or anything else, this is an open mic time.

[2:33:34] Go ahead, Chuck.

[2:33:34] Okay.

[2:33:37] The town manager has already heard me putting in a plug for this but our 250th celebration

[2:33:45] is upcoming and I'm hoping somewhere we can find some funds to sort of support that.

[2:33:52] I don't know, I don't have a dollar number in mind just yet, but we've got a very enthusiastic

[2:33:58] the committee who are dreaming up all sorts of stuff that we could do, and we're going

[2:34:04] to rely on volunteers and sponsorships as much as we can, but I just put it out there

[2:34:14] as the programming becomes more settled.

[2:34:22] We should try to get together to see if this is a worthwhile endeavor and how much of

[2:34:27] the town's resources are available to help support it.

[2:34:31] So I just thought I'd mention that.

[2:34:38] Hey, anyone else?

[2:34:39] Yes.

[2:34:41] Yes, I just wanted to mention I know the commander

[2:34:46] of the American Legion post came forward

[2:34:49] and told us about the Be the One initiative

[2:34:51] and asked for the support of the council for an event

[2:34:55] that they are going to have next weekend.

[2:34:58] and

[2:35:00] Having a system where people can check on those who have served to make that personal connection

[2:35:07] as part of Suicide Awareness Month this month. So I just I plan to be there and really appreciate

[2:35:13] that he shared that opportunity for us to be supportive. One other item I would love

[2:35:22] to hear more about is the Halloween parade.

[2:35:26] So I know we have it out coming up in October, and one of the things we had talked about

[2:35:34] earlier this year was some new measures that would be in place for the parade, so it

[2:35:42] would be helpful to hear an update on how that's going.

[2:35:49] Thank you.

[2:35:49] So we have gone out for an RFP and received one bid back, but we do have three other quotes

[2:35:56] that we received before.

[2:35:58] So right now, we're kind of in negotiations with talking to two different companies.

[2:36:02] We have an interview tomorrow, and then we have discussions with another company later this

[2:36:08] week.

[2:36:09] So discussing, there's a lot of details that go into it, especially with making sure that

[2:36:14] there's openings for the businesses, giving them enough contractor enough time to be able

[2:36:19] set all the barricades and have openings for the businesses, so we're not restricting

[2:36:24] folks from coming and going until it's time to close the streets off.

[2:36:29] So we're just kind of working through those pieces.

[2:36:32] So.

[2:36:33] Yes, good.

[2:36:34] Please.

[2:36:35] Thank you for that update.

[2:36:37] I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about two things, one, what the use the word

[2:36:46] barricade.

[2:36:47] so I will use it. It was something I know I had concerns about, but it's going forward.

[2:36:51] What the look of them will be? If it will be, I know we had talked about different possible

[2:36:58] options of that it could be done in a way that is like the silver, this would be to have

[2:37:07] barricades all along Maple Avenue along the Parade Route. So, would it be the silver, metal,

[2:37:17] barricades that were contemplated before? Are there other options that are being considered now that would have that same kind of

[2:37:23] safety feature, but that would have a different visual effect?

[2:37:28] So it would be the silver metal

[2:37:31] fencing that would be because that's pretty much the only other than the big plastic ones that are like bright orange and thick and heavy

[2:37:40] Very cumbersome and then also you can't see through them because they're solid

[2:37:44] That was the best option because as I had shared before, the issue was with children running back and forth.

[2:37:53] So we wanted to make sure that we had something that the children couldn't get passed.

[2:37:58] So that was the best option that we were able to come up with.

[2:38:04] Okay, and then my other question is just, you mentioned the businesses and the access to businesses.

[2:38:11] Is that something that will be further discussed and planned and how will I just would note the suggestion?

[2:38:18] The request please to talk engage with the businesses early if that's part of the plan so that they

[2:38:26] Know about this. I know I think the broader community knowing about it and the rationale of the council and supporting it was for safety

[2:38:35] And also just thinking about the other possible impacts. I think would be

[2:38:39] going to be good if it's not already part of the plans.

[2:38:43] One of the things that we've been talking about with the parks department was potentially just sending out an email to all of the businesses because it is so wide reaching the Halloween parade that it impacts almost the entire town, the closures, especially in the commercial areas, basically outside of Cedar Park.

[2:39:00] So that is a different approach than I think we might have taken in the past which was only the directly impacted businesses.

[2:39:06] some of the feedback we've heard in the past was that even if you're not in the direct route it still impacts your business traffic

[2:39:12] and so that is an adjustment that we're going to look to make and so

[2:39:16] Perst Department will be working with us to make sure that's conveyed to them.

[2:39:21] Thank you.

[2:39:24] Roy?

[2:39:25] I'd like just to comment that according to being an acceptable euphemism for Barricade is passive protection device.

[2:39:38] I was not in favor of the barriers because I thought the real issue was the gap between

[2:39:44] the floats.

[2:39:45] What steps are we taking to make sure the floats have minimal gaps so someone's not encouraged

[2:39:54] across the street?

[2:39:55] Yes, there will be education and then we'll also have staff that will

[2:40:00] We walk along side, not every single unit, but identifying the entries that we've had issues with before and assigning people to those organizations. But they literally normally has, she normally has a knowledge, kind of interview, not interview, but kind of a discussion with the parade participants to let them know what our rules and guidelines are, because there are many rules and guidelines that go along with it.

[2:40:27] and also with keeping gaps or not keeping gaps.

[2:40:33] So that will be discussed and then we will reiterate it.

[2:40:36] And then I also reiterate it as every group passes by

[2:40:40] when they're stepping into the parade route.

[2:40:42] I speak to every single unit about keeping the gaps tight.

[2:40:46] But we will identify the gaps where the gaps were

[2:40:50] in the units that were causing some of the issues

[2:40:53] so that we could deal with those.

[2:40:54] and then also potentially we haven't done the

[2:40:58] parade line up for still receiving applications,

[2:41:00] so identifying which ones are applying

[2:41:03] that are the have been problems.

[2:41:07] I've never seen it quite like last years.

[2:41:10] Is there a cause?

[2:41:11] Do we have many new entries?

[2:41:15] Or because it seems like some of them,

[2:41:17] we've seen year after year after year,

[2:41:19] so they know the drill.

[2:41:21] It was the makeup different last year

[2:41:24] No, it was it was the same as it's been in the past, I mean there's there's some groups that we know that

[2:41:31] routinely

[2:41:33] Get their themselves a little bit more room or not are not as fast as walking because of the steps that they take

[2:41:38] Sometimes one step forward two steps back

[2:41:42] And there's in their dancing

[2:41:45] Which is a little frustrating

[2:41:49] But it's it's always it's always a challenge with parades and gaps are my biggest

[2:41:53] pet peeve. So yeah, we're working to make sure that we minimize those. Sometimes it's

[2:41:58] difficult because, for instance, you'll have dancing groups that are incredibly colorful

[2:42:04] and entertaining, but they're one step forward, two steps back. And they kind of slow things

[2:42:12] down, but the last thing we want is for anyone, for there to be like a block gap. I just, I,

[2:42:17] we try to keep it as tight as possible, but not too tight because there have been times

[2:42:21] would folks have taken it very literal and they've written almost on the tail of the unit in front of them

[2:42:26] And then they can't when they're coming by the you know this the stage where you all are sitting

[2:42:31] You can't tell which ones a separate unit and it also makes it difficult when they're filming it

[2:42:37] Well, it's a wonderful event. Thank you for what you're doing and look forward to it. Great. Thank you

[2:42:45] All right, tell me

[2:42:47] answer.

[2:42:48] What?

[2:42:49] Councillor Anderson.

[2:42:51] It's quicker on the good.

[2:42:53] Go ahead.

[2:42:55] Just a reminder about the update of the library.

[2:42:58] Do we have any news?

[2:43:01] A vote.

[2:43:04] And while he's coming up, I'll ask David Levy

[2:43:06] to come up to talk about the comp plan after.

[2:43:10] If I could cue him up.

[2:43:11] Yes.

[2:43:11] Okay.

[2:43:14] Oh yeah, absolutely.

[2:43:14] So the county is in the acquisition process and it's not publicly available information right now, but what I can say is they're working on awarding the project.

[2:43:28] So I'm talking about the library in the parking garage.

[2:43:31] So by the end of the month, I think I should be able to provide the council with an update perhaps at the September 29 meeting.

[2:43:37] But I will say I think their target is to award at this month.

[2:43:43] And usually it takes, once you order a project, it takes a couple months before the contractor submits and mobilizes, but I'll have a little bit more information about the next council meeting.

[2:43:54] Thank you.

[2:43:57] Okay, thank you. And I'll just tee up David Lee, the director of planning and zoning so he can hit the home run here off the tee, tee it up or golf tee either way.

[2:44:10] Okay, so October 22nd, town council and joint public hearing is in the plan, so we just need to know if the council is comfortable with that and other aspects within the plan.

[2:44:24] Well, so, right, so the Planning Commission is nearing completion of their, the document that they want to release for the public hearing.

[2:44:35] We are a staff or a busily getting it together.

[2:44:39] We plan on bringing it to them on September 24th, and we anticipate that they're going

[2:44:45] to be ready to release because they're comfortable with all the language we did a review last

[2:44:49] time.

[2:44:50] Now it's sort of getting it into a good format.

[2:44:53] At that point, they're likely to want to hold their public hearing on one of two dates,

[2:44:57] It's either November 12th.

[2:45:00] Which is, or October 22nd, which is not a scheduled meeting for them, TMI, too much information

[2:45:10] to know why Council Member Remekas and Anderson, there are all sorts of things about the

[2:45:14] second meeting in October and the Halloween parade. But the question originally was that

[2:45:23] that the council would participate in a joint public hearing.

[2:45:28] The main purpose of that was to see if there'd be a possibility of completing the comp

[2:45:35] plan during this council.

[2:45:37] That has slipped for multiple reasons.

[2:45:41] A key reason recently was because of the network issues.

[2:45:49] We're also aware that you want to do.

[2:45:51] we've heard from at least two of you that you would like to do a work session of discussion

[2:45:55] before a public hearing so you have a chance to understand what's in the document that's different

[2:46:00] from what was in the document.

[2:46:05] So if you were to participate in a joint public hearing either on October

[2:46:11] 22nd or November 12th we'd have to figure out a way to get yet another work session in on October 20th

[2:46:20] when all the boards and commissions are coming in or on some other date or if you say okay no big deal

[2:46:27] to do the joint public hearing we're not going to be able to even if you do it honestly at this point

[2:46:35] the next year is when the council is going to be working on it because the commission's going to hear

[2:46:39] the testimony they're going to do whatever updates then they're going to forward it to the commission

[2:46:44] that probably won't be done till December so the new year is when you're really going to be addressing

[2:46:49] it anyway. So the alternative is, you wait until the Planning Commission completes

[2:46:55] this work, forwards you their recommendation, you hold a work session where we do a presentation

[2:47:04] to you with the commission, with a minimum the chair of the commission and whatever other

[2:47:10] commission members want to do it. We discuss all the changes that are in this as compared

[2:47:15] to the existing plan then you have your public hearing and then you move forward to your

[2:47:21] work. So those are to me those are the two options right that I mean to me I think especially

[2:47:30] since you know our original idea was to have that joint public hearing while I like having

[2:47:34] joint public hearings with the planning commission I think that we're not going to get to that

[2:47:39] that 2025, that's not going to happen.

[2:47:42] So, to me, letting the planning commission do their part

[2:47:46] and just do it like we normally do, makes sense.

[2:47:50] I think I don't see any problem with doing that.

[2:47:53] I think it might just be a little,

[2:47:58] that's our normal process,

[2:48:00] and so I think our normal process does work,

[2:48:03] and so I think that would be my recommendation.

[2:48:07] Anybody has a different idea, please?

[2:48:13] That's not good.

[2:48:14] OK.

[2:48:14] Yeah, I know.

[2:48:15] I had expressed other ideas before,

[2:48:17] but I think in light of where we are and other priorities,

[2:48:20] including what we discussed tonight,

[2:48:22] it seems like the typical process.

[2:48:24] As you described it makes sense.

[2:48:27] OK.

[2:48:27] Same here.

[2:48:28] I mean, I would like to.

[2:48:30] I'm like you.

[2:48:31] I love having the joint public hearings.

[2:48:34] I'd like even more at the turn of the year

[2:48:37] to have a joint work session after they've had their public hearings.

[2:48:42] That would be very valuable, I think.

[2:48:45] I know they'd want to participate in that because they've worked hard on that.

[2:48:48] That sounds, that sounds like great.

[2:48:49] Yeah, because they know it's a far greater level of detail than any of us ever would.

[2:48:54] And I just think it would be very useful for us to hear from them if we have questions.

[2:48:58] That sounds good.

[2:49:00] All right, Tom Andrew.

[2:49:01] So so David tomorrow you'll you'll give me an updated calendar sketch based on what they just said we're working on an updated calendar based on this for the for the town council we'll also communicate that back to the planning commission so that they will they've been wanting to take into account what you want to do in terms of the thinking about it so now they'll just do it on the schedule that makes most sense for them and then bring it forward but we'll do both of those. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[2:49:31] And I think Nicole Toulouse has a brief commercial for us.

[2:49:36] Come on, maybe it's not brief.

[2:49:39] I don't know if it's a commercial, but just a general update, I know that I had a conversation with a council member to about any updates on the Nova Parks project that's publicly available for your consumption.

[2:49:51] And then we can have conversations about back and forth maybe at a different point.

[2:49:55] But Nova Parks will have a new executive director that's coming online.

[2:49:59] and I'm sure you'll...

[2:50:00] I'll know Justin Wilson, who is the mayor of Alexandria for a long time, and he'll be coming on replacing Paul Gilbert. So we'll want to make sure there's continuity with that project and him moving forward. We have come up with a draft MOU with town council, the councilor, even see Berlia, and we're hoping to finalize that. But things that have been discussed and generally agreed upon include things like the fact that the town would own

[2:50:29] the actual land and the property improvements and operation of the stilts building site would be

[2:50:38] improved and operated by Nova Parks.

[2:50:41] The bank building where posh is currently located would be operated and improved by the town.

[2:50:47] And Nova Parks at one of their recent board meetings

[2:50:50] allocated and approved up to $4.5 million for improvements on the site.

[2:50:56] So it wasn't specified that it had to be that site, so I still want to clarify that we are still doing a site selection business attraction basically effort here to make sure that we solidify Vienna as their destination to put the WNOD visitor center at as opposed to another location.

[2:51:15] So that's a part of ongoing conversation but they have allocated a few million dollars to a WNOD trail visitor center.

[2:51:23] So they've put that money forward, and that's a very important step forward, I think, for us to be aware of.

[2:51:29] Thank you, okay, thank you.

[2:51:31] Thank you for the commercial.

[2:51:32] And lastly, on October 20th, we have a work session.

[2:51:37] And I would like to get you all's input on the order of the items because it is going to be an unusual work session to some degree.

[2:51:49] So if you have a look on page four that I handed out to you all.

[2:51:52] we have all board and commission annual reports that night.

[2:51:59] So all the board and commission is going to give their annual reports.

[2:52:02] We also have the noise ordinance amendments.

[2:52:07] I think there's a chief Morris and Council Member Anderson are tag teaming on that.

[2:52:14] And then we have also a third item legislative agenda with delegate, our delegate and our senator.

[2:52:23] and then we just added the CIP.

[2:52:27] So as far as an order is concerned,

[2:52:30] does it not matter to you all?

[2:52:32] Should the legislature of agenda go first

[2:52:34] because there are delegate in our senator?

[2:52:37] Like,

[2:52:37] the board's in commission is going to be here.

[2:52:39] Like yeah, this is going to be a different kind of work session.

[2:52:42] I would say legislative agenda should go first

[2:52:45] for two reasons because there are delegate in our senator

[2:52:48] and we can afford them that.

[2:52:50] Okay.

[2:52:50] And also because our town attorney

[2:52:52] we're paying him by the hour so I think he should go first.

[2:52:57] And then I would suggest the board and commissions go next because they are our residents

[2:53:03] that are serving and we don't want them to have to stay up too late.

[2:53:07] And then I would say CIP because that's really important and we've got to really be a little

[2:53:16] more bright eyed and bushy tailed and we're talking about that and then he's ordained.

[2:53:19] That would be my suggestion.

[2:53:21] and then noise ordinance.

[2:53:22] And then noise ordinance.

[2:53:24] Okay.

[2:53:25] Nothing against you, Chuck.

[2:53:26] Promise.

[2:53:27] I'm just thinking of, you know, being, being,

[2:53:31] because the noise ordinance is something

[2:53:32] we might need more time.

[2:53:34] I mean, the CIP, we've really got to nail down

[2:53:37] and I think that.

[2:53:38] And the SAP discussion might be short.

[2:53:40] Yeah, right.

[2:53:41] Exactly.

[2:53:41] Maybe it is.

[2:53:42] It might be short.

[2:53:42] True, true, true.

[2:53:43] Yeah.

[2:53:51] Sure.

[2:53:54] Oh, I think.

[2:53:56] Right.

[2:53:57] Right.

[2:53:58] Right.

[2:53:59] Eight or eight or eight or eight or so?

[2:54:02] Right.

[2:54:04] Right.

[2:54:05] Right.

[2:54:06] So it could be five minutes, I mean, it could be five to seven minutes, or it could be

[2:54:10] five minutes with, you know, because we might have some questions.

[2:54:14] So we could say five minute presentation.

[2:54:17] Yeah, I think we've got six of them maybe that are active.

[2:54:20] Five or five.

[2:54:20] DCA doesn't do good.

[2:54:23] Right.

[2:54:23] DCA does.

[2:54:23] Quasi judicial.

[2:54:24] Right.

[2:54:25] and I don't think V-PAC is part of it.

[2:54:29] Right, no, I agree.

[2:54:30] So the only reason I'm here is that we're,

[2:54:35] he's asked me to put together the agenda item.

[2:54:38] Somebody's got to do it.

[2:54:39] So we've been telling them five minutes each.

[2:54:46] Five minutes?

[2:54:46] And we'd give us up a little time for questions

[2:54:48] if we do or comment.

[2:54:51] Yeah, I agree.

[2:54:52] And we have to stick to it.

[2:54:54] We have to be disciplined, yeah.

[2:54:57] It's as much as them, for sure.

[2:55:00] We'll probably be relieved that they, they'll be, you know, have a much time. I'm sure they don't want to. They'll all have a annual report form out of the same way. Yeah. So you're able to see that. Right. And, and is that something time, Andrew, you can tell the clerks to, to relate to the, or, you know, right? Yeah. Yeah. We've been doing it through the liaison, but we'll continue that with the clerk. Okay. Good point. And then also Madam Mayor, members of the council, a little birdie just reminded me that the noise ordinance amendments is also

[2:55:29] including Steve Brillier, our town attorney, and he likes to be at the top of the agenda.

[2:55:36] So maybe it's legislative agenda and then noise ordinance.

[2:55:40] Okay.

[2:55:44] Okay, so that's, so noise ordinance is two, then abortion commission is three, N-C-I-P-S-4.

[2:55:51] Okay. Okay, and an open discussion. Okay. Sounds good?

[2:55:56] Thank you for your patience. Okay, sure. All right, are we done everybody?

[2:55:59] Yes. Okay, good night.

Town Council Work Session on 2025-09-15 7:00 PM

Agenda

Transcript